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00:01:33 *** Guest855 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:58 *** setrodox [setrodox@83-65-234-248.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Hapiness ;D] 00:12:29 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl10-67-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 00:28:01 *** mataamad [~bwigely@203-173-219-41.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #openttd 00:30:02 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl10-67-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:37:00 *** bencvt [~bencvt@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 00:39:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57a1d560.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:39 *** Sleepie [~Sleepie@p54B3796D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:47:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10018 /website/ (26 files in 2 dirs): -Update: the website so it can handle the new flags/languages introduced in r10017. 01:04:35 *** Apocalipsys [Apocalipsy@190.156.92.198] has joined #openttd 01:06:15 *** dihedral 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[~johekr@p54B7507E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:51:25 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-67-220.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:58:01 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-67-220.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:10:40 *** Apocalipsys [Apocalipsy@190.156.92.198] has left #openttd [] 02:11:28 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:18:57 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl10-67-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 02:20:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 03:14:21 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:38:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57a1d560.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:50:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F220.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:59:58 *** tokai [~tokai@p54b830b6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:02:28 *** tokai [~tokai@p54b80412.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:02:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 04:17:55 *** Jay [~jay@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 04:18:01 <Jay> mikegrb: ! 04:18:07 <mikegrb> jay! 04:18:10 <Jay> :> 04:18:37 <Jay> I finished my magazine column for Railroads Illustrated 04:18:40 <Jay> I'm dead tired 04:18:49 <Jay> I have to move my uncle to a new house early in the morning 04:18:56 <Jay> but all I want to do is play openttd 04:22:43 *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb5415.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:43:18 *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb5415.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 04:55:50 *** geoffk [~geoffk@host86-130-151-243.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:08 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:48 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 05:42:10 * boekabart yawns good morning 06:21:30 <Touqen> g'night 06:21:33 <Touqen> y'all 06:37:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host202-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 06:37:14 <Wolf01> hello 06:37:21 <boekabart> morning 07:06:43 *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-111-180-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 07:08:25 *** bencvt [~bencvt@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #openttd [] 07:11:27 *** Zuu [~leif@c-0c3c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 07:19:00 *** Draakon [~chatzilla@88-196-111-180-dsl.trt.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]] 07:44:56 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 07:46:54 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 07:47:58 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:11:56 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:19:31 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 08:26:45 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 08:35:57 <nairan> morning 08:36:14 *** remus_ [numers@c-3516e155.528-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 08:38:15 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-232-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:41 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-33-171.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:50:23 *** setrodox [setrodox@85-125-223-158.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 08:52:14 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:25 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 08:52:33 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:52:35 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x535ca25f.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:52:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 08:56:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10019 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos 08:58:41 <stillunknown> peter1138: ping 08:59:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F220.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 09:00:15 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@81-236-230-128-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 09:01:28 <peter1138> pong 09:05:36 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:06:56 *** remus [numers@c-3516e155.528-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:08:21 <stillunknown> peter1138: that smatz person did some optimizations related to the hash map, were they bad? 09:08:50 *** remus_ [numers@c-3516e155.528-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:08:54 <Noldo> what is GRM? 09:09:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57a1f220.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:09:37 *** HMage` [Queneex@89-178-51-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: HMage`] 09:09:44 <Maedhros> grf resource management - designed to avoid conflicts between grf files 09:11:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10020 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#824]: GetNextVehicle() is invalid for anything that isn't a train. 09:18:58 *** Unaimed [~Unaimed@ua-83-227-175-8.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:19:50 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:00 <Unaimed> Does anyone know how to use the {P} (Plural Modifier) in strings? 09:23:31 <Maedhros> Unaimed: have you seen this? http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Format_of_langfiles#Plural_form 09:23:52 <Unaimed> Thank you, i was looking in the strings help section 09:24:41 <stillunknown> peter1138: ping-pong 09:26:04 <peter1138> no idea 09:26:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10021 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9560): memory "corruption" that could lead to a failure to load newgrfs. 09:26:15 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:26:33 <Rubidium> robotboy: is the problem with ausland.grf now solved? 09:54:49 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-51-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 09:55:13 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-44-230.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 10:02:12 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7682.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:15 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-232-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:03:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7682.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:47 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7682.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 10:16:59 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-44-230.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:18:51 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:20 *** Nigel_ [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has joined #openttd 10:22:05 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:25 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd 10:24:11 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-51-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:06 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:33:26 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:08 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 10:38:03 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:44 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:44:48 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:53 *** Sleepie [~Sleepie@p54B374F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:51:03 <stillunknown> Bjarni: ping 10:57:39 *** Sleepie [~Sleepie@p54B374F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:00:27 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:03:26 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has left #openttd [] 11:10:24 <robotboy> i SHALL CHECK FOR YOU NOW RUBIDIUM 11:10:48 <robotboy> will I have to wait for the nightly? 11:11:30 <Rubidium> if you can compile yourself you don't need to wait 11:12:47 <Unaimed> Where/how does one submit a patch? 11:13:29 <robotboy> ill go get buildottd 11:13:29 <Unaimed> nm 11:15:00 <boekabart> Unaimed: post it on the forum, get people to like it, talk to devs here 11:15:44 <Unaimed> so i shouldn't submit it to flyspray? 11:16:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10022 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r10007): Set the type of multiheaded trains before the subtype. 11:17:56 <robotboy> what version of .net does build ottd need? 11:20:57 *** Unaimed [~Unaimed@ua-83-227-175-8.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 11:21:20 <peter1138> 2 11:21:40 <Wolf01> can somebody commit these three little patches? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29627 11:27:25 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:03 *** Nigel_ is now known as Nigel 11:38:13 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5841.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:42:28 <Wolf01> mmmh, bug, you can remove roads also if you don't have money 11:44:14 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-60-19.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:45:53 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:20 <TheJosh> Hey could someone point me in the right direction I wanted to add some code to the game (a patch) that would draw some lines and stuff on the main viewport. I want to be able to specify co-ords in isometric and have them worked out. what file should I look in? 11:46:20 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:47:11 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 11:47:17 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:48:33 <TheJosh> basically i want to build a system that i call 'routes' where you can define lines that are drawn on the ground, and are basically a sign, but it covers an area (a line) rather than just a point 11:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you want to draw stuff on the map, you should probably add a sprite 11:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> like what the tile highlight code does 11:55:44 *** geoffk [~geoffk@host86-130-151-243.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:55:50 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-67-220.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:59:14 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-67-220.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:42 <Bjarni> stillunknown: I think we need to work on your ping time :D 12:02:48 <Bjarni> it could improve 12:03:58 <stillunknown> Bjarni: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=592537#592537 12:07:10 <Bjarni> are you madman2003? 12:07:34 <stillunknown> Yes, i am. 12:07:46 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:07:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:08:30 <stillunknown> @Bjarni 12:08:31 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: where is the party? :P 12:08:53 <Bjarni> well 12:09:29 <Bjarni> it could improve communication if we knew who is so paranoid that they have to use different names all over the place 12:09:39 <Bjarni> I bet you have a 3rd name on flyspray xD 12:09:57 <stillunknown> I don't think so. 12:10:17 <stillunknown> I don't actually remember why i choose a different irc name. 12:10:31 <Bjarni> also you picked 2003 in 2004 :p 12:11:00 <stillunknown> I still use madman2003, just plug into a search engine ;-) 12:11:20 <Bjarni> "This concept cannot be applied to road, because there is no space in the map array there" <-- can't the road vehicle check if there is a train in the crossing using the train counter? 12:11:35 <boekabart> ah, best thing about saturday: pizza for lunch 12:11:59 <stillunknown> Bjarni: I forgot that road vehicles do not collide. 12:12:14 <Bjarni> they collide with trains 12:12:27 <stillunknown> I remember now. 12:13:02 <stillunknown> I will also look at the roadveh collision stuff. 12:13:31 <stillunknown> Bjarni: Do you like the idea? 12:13:46 <Bjarni> the idea, yes 12:13:56 <Bjarni> also the benchmarks 12:14:08 <Bjarni> however I'm still not sure that it's bug free :s 12:14:27 <stillunknown> Hence the: it could use some testing 12:14:39 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: at mine place 12:14:49 <boekabart> Bjarni: how many times did has a _committed_ patch been bugfree ;) 12:14:50 <valhallasw> hmmm. 12:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> hmm, technically, road vehicles collide with other road vehicles, just they slow down instead of crash 12:15:00 <Bjarni> boekabart: 273 12:15:03 <valhallasw> The AHC regatta is 6th of june, too 12:15:12 <boekabart> 273 out of 10000 ;) 12:15:15 <TrueBrain> regatta? 12:15:37 <boekabart> TrueBrain: Why is the party in the middle of a working day :( 12:15:49 <boekabart> higher treshold?? 12:15:56 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: 'zeilwedstrijd'? :p 12:15:58 <TrueBrain> boekabart: becaue it means our OV is valid :p 12:16:00 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: ah :) 12:19:52 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-51-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:21:07 *** sPooT [~spoot@e156067.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:21:10 <stillunknown> TrueBrain boakabart: You expect him to know what an OV is (it's a card which can be either used during weeks or weekends, to travel to and from university/college/whatever) 12:21:44 <stillunknown> They apparently have a week card, so they would have to pay for travel in the weekend. 12:23:01 <TrueBrain> stillunknown: and why would you assume boekabart doesn't know what it is? 12:23:24 <TrueBrain> stillunknown: I personally assume anyone living in The Netherlands knows what an OV is :p 12:24:19 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: where is it, kamp duwo? :p 12:24:44 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: haha, no, not really :p Around 15 minutes from Huygens by bike 12:25:03 <valhallasw> mkay 12:31:11 <stillunknown> Bjarni: The roadveh collision thing was easy. 12:31:17 <stillunknown> and it works ;-) 12:31:56 <Bjarni> stillunknown: "if (GetPrevVehicleInChain(u) == NULL) {" <-- we have a front engine flag that's faster to check 12:32:02 <Bjarni> check train.h 12:32:11 <Bjarni> I even added a function to read it 12:32:20 <Bjarni> IsFrontEngine() or something 12:33:07 <Bjarni> GetPrevVehicleInChain() checks if a vehicle has next set to u. It's way faster to just read a bit in subtype in u :) 12:37:05 <stillunknown> Bjarni: any other comments? 12:37:17 <Bjarni> loading old savegames... 12:38:01 <Bjarni> all the caches will be 0 when loading, so it can load ghost train issues 12:38:10 <Bjarni> trains passing though each other 12:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> should be just a simple loop on loading 12:39:23 <Bjarni> also it's preferred to add {} after if(), even if it's only one line following. While it works without it, it's easier to read and (specially) to prevent future bugs 12:39:35 <boekabart> stillunknown: I can remember the days I had an OV... Now I always have to PAY. (so i go by car most of the time) 12:39:45 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: something like that 12:40:59 <Bjarni> but the loop should only be when loading old savegames 12:41:15 <Bjarni> since the map (and therefore cache) is saved 12:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> if (check savegame version) { loop } ... that one is pretty straight forward :p 12:42:41 <Bjarni> this would (at least in theory) also reduce the need for optimising the load loop since it will be called rarely and never when time matters (like when joining multiplayer games) 12:43:06 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: well, the loop thing is the interesting part 12:43:16 <Bjarni> the question is how to do it best 12:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> i would not put a lot of thought in that... 12:44:05 <Bjarni> most likely by looping though all front engines and then walk though each train and increase the counter for each tile it passes 12:44:09 <Bjarni> hmm 12:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah 12:44:15 <Bjarni> just found a bug in the diff 12:44:56 <Bjarni> when two trains crash into each other, they will... crash (didn't expect that one coming :p ) and after a while the crashed train is cleared, yet it will not decrease the counter 12:45:30 <stillunknown> That's intentional. 12:45:49 <Bjarni> even after it's cleared? 12:46:18 <stillunknown> When train number 3 comes by, it will force a full check when leaving. 12:46:21 <Bjarni> if a tile contain 2 trains that crashes, the counter will be 2, even after the trains are gone 12:46:29 <stillunknown> This will reset the counter to 0. 12:46:39 <Bjarni> what about the rear of both trains? 12:46:59 <Bjarni> the counter will be 1, then grow to 2 and after the trains leave, it will be 1 again 12:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> which counter? after the vehicles are cleared, you do not know which tiles where occupied by the train 12:47:17 <stillunknown> Above 3 trains, it will do a full check. 12:47:37 <stillunknown> So it will find 1, minus one leaving. 12:47:44 <stillunknown> is 0 12:47:59 <Bjarni> but the rear end of a crash train will be on tiles where the counter is 0 12:48:02 <Bjarni> err 12:48:04 <Bjarni> counter is 1 12:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is really dirty implementation... 12:48:19 *** |2rB [~Twofish@195.204.107.4] has joined #openttd 12:48:29 <stillunknown> I will improve that. 12:49:16 <Bjarni> when clearing a crashed vehicle, you have to loop though all vehicles to count them on the tile in question 12:49:36 <Bjarni> it's a rare event (or at least should be), so it's ok 12:49:41 <stillunknown> I know, just looking for the place were that happens. 12:50:05 <Bjarni> train_cmd.cpp has some function called clear crashed train or something 12:50:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, when clearing a crashed vehicle, you should only have to check wether the next vehicle in the train is on the same tile 12:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> if not, decrease counter 12:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... the train could be self looping 12:50:41 * Bjarni decides to actually open the source files instead of just the diff 12:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> that won't work... 12:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> so loop through all vehicles of the train 12:51:18 <Bjarni> no, it was called something else 12:51:19 <Bjarni> HandleCrashedTrain() 12:51:55 <Bjarni> the last lines will delete the train when the counter reaches a certain point 13:03:44 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:09 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:21 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... the train could be self looping <-- I already thought about this. It will leave the tile and then come back to it. In such a case the train will be counted twice, so it's ok 13:05:23 <Bjarni> hmm 13:05:29 <Bjarni> but that would leave another problem 13:06:07 <Bjarni> if it enters the same tile say 5 times and then leaves, it will count the number of trains in the tile, which will be only 1, but it will leave 4 times 13:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> then you have to disallow this multiple counting 13:07:03 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5841.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 13:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. if a train enters a tile, check, that it is not already on it, and if it leaves a tile, check also 13:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> looping through a train should not be that expensive 13:11:17 <Bjarni> that's not a huge issue 13:11:41 <Bjarni> it will be an issue to check if the train in question is already on the tile when leaving though 13:12:20 <Bjarni> except if we make the trains double linked lists so it has a prev counter to increase speed when reading the previous vehicle 13:12:20 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-193-217.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:12:25 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-193-217.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 13:13:55 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 13:18:24 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:51 <stillunknown> Bjarni: I can see one issue, if a train crosses itself (pretty rare) it will do collision checking, The problem is when a train crosses itself and another train is on the tile, this triggers the >=3 trains, which will only detect 2 trains, so when the crossed train leaves, it is set to zero. Another train could ride through that other train. 13:19:58 <stillunknown> Very unlikely i suppose. 13:20:02 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:20:50 <Bjarni> still a bug 13:20:59 *** graeme [~graeme@88-104-43-198.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:21:13 <Bjarni> the train can cross itself more than once on the same tile if somebody tries to break the game 13:21:19 <Bjarni> and as we know, people will do that 13:21:35 <Bjarni> people tries to break the game in all sorts of weird ways 13:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: doesn't a wagon have a link to the front engine? 13:21:55 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@84.160.76.100] has joined #openttd 13:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> that removes the need for double linked list 13:22:01 <redmonkey> hi 13:23:13 <Bjarni> hmm 13:23:23 <Bjarni> I suppose that the first pointer could be used here 13:23:38 <Bjarni> Vehicle *next; // next <-- now that's a wonderful comment :p 13:24:55 <stillunknown> I wonder, can a train cross and still have another train on the tile. 13:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> don't you love that kind of comments? 13:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> Some_Type variable_that_does_something // variable of some type that does something 13:25:31 <Bjarni> stillunknown: highly unlikely, but we should be prepared for user stupidity 13:25:51 <Bjarni> also the counter should be correct when the train leaves 13:25:58 <Tobin> "we should be prepared for user stupidity" <-- Damn skippy. 13:26:32 <Tobin> Stupidity knows no bounds and people will push things if they think they can break them. 13:26:48 <Bjarni> let me put it this way: "user stupidity can figure out how to break the game and the stupid user will then do that over and over in multiplayer games" 13:27:04 <Bjarni> so it's a protect MP games issue 13:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> <stillunknown> I wonder, can a train cross and still have another train on the tile. <- sure, just have a double-track tile, and have the train loop on only one half, have the other train pass (or even loop) on the other half 13:27:58 <Bjarni> see 13:28:06 <Bjarni> user stupidity always find a way :p 13:28:30 <stillunknown> The only option i see, is going through the entire train when encountering >1 trains on a tile 13:28:41 <redmonkey> which version of openttd is the closest to the original ttdlx? 13:28:47 <stillunknown> And checking if another piece of the train is on the same tile. 13:29:05 <stillunknown> minus the first 2 wagons, ofcource. 13:29:36 <Bjarni> redmonkey: 0.1.1, but then again it's buggy, so maybe not 13:29:47 <Bjarni> but why do you want TTD? 13:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> most additional features can be disabled or ignored... 13:30:26 <redmonkey> because there is no ttdlx for unix systems :) 13:30:46 <Bjarni> didn't really answer my question 13:30:59 <Bjarni> why do you want TTD when you can have OpenTTD? 13:31:19 <Tobin> redmonkey: Checkout the earliest revision from SVN and see if it compiles for you. 13:31:51 <Tobin> redmonkey: And be prepared to be disappointed. TTDLX was good but it's _very_ frustrating after using OTTD. 13:32:26 <redmonkey> because i loved the old TTD game just the way it was. sure, OpenTTD is great too. but sometimes i just wanna play the original one 13:32:28 <stillunknown> People would have been stunned in '94 if they got ottd instead of ttd. 13:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> people would have been frustrated of ottd, because it runs much slower... 13:33:05 <Bjarni> <stillunknown> People would have been stunned in '94 if they got ottd instead of ttd. <-- specially by the resolutions we play in today xD 13:33:18 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-60-19.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 13:34:06 <redmonkey> could you bugfix OTTD 0.1.1 without adding new features as a sideproject? that'd be great! and i know a lot of other people who'd love it too :) 13:34:23 <Kjetil> Playing the original is just annoying. All the cool features are missing 13:34:26 <stillunknown> Unlikely. 13:34:35 <Bjarni> I don't think anybody will spend ages doing that 13:34:46 <Bjarni> also 0.1.1 is windows only 13:34:56 <redmonkey> true 13:35:06 <Bjarni> you really has to use 0.2.2 or something before the ports became any good 13:36:02 <Bjarni> I really wonder by so many people downloaded 0.1.4 for OSX and nobody bug reported that it had hardcoded absolute paths to my 3rd party libs 13:36:23 <Bjarni> tells you something about most users :p 13:36:29 <Tobin> Bjarni: Hardly anyone gives good bug reports. 13:36:41 <Bjarni> I didn't say good, I said *any* 13:36:55 <Bjarni> I didn't even get "this shit fails to start" or anything 13:38:30 *** graeme [~graeme@88-104-43-198.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:38:31 <redmonkey> it was just an idea :) but you're right. if i wanna play the original, i can play it in an emulator or something. OTTD is way more advanced and i'm looking forward to the new 32bit graphics.. they just look awesome! 13:39:15 <Tobin> Heh, 32bit graphics. Been there played that. :) 13:39:39 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd 13:39:48 <Tobin> And back before any of you youngin's had a chance to get your hands on it too. :P 13:40:04 <Tobin> I don't think anything cam of the early work though. 13:40:22 <Tobin> By early work I mean Mek's. 13:41:13 <stillunknown> What the easiest (and cheapest) way to check if a tile has branches? 13:41:37 <Tobin> Teehee: http://www.tt-forums.net/files/32bpp-boredom_138.png 13:42:06 <redmonkey> but please don't overload OpenTTD with too much new stuff. because then it wouldn't be TTD anymore. 13:43:01 <stillunknown> They'll only ruin gameplay in favor of eye candy. 13:44:00 <Maedhros> stillunknown: TracksOverlap(), probably 13:50:14 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:33 *** graeme [~graeme@88-104-86-169.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:51:10 <kaan> im going fishing :) 13:51:56 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has left #openttd [] 13:54:37 *** pecet [~pecet@btb50.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:09:57 *** boekabart [~bdb@e215192.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:10:56 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-67-220.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Brooklyn's got a URL Rodger Bacon USB Firewire SVG Ebooks Wazniack Flowerpower iMac Phaser laser inkjet what you see aint what you get] 14:15:29 *** sPooT [~spoot@e156067.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:56 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-51-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:16 *** sPooT [~spoot@e156067.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:29:49 *** Calamarain [~me@host81-153-222-225.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:32:39 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:42:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r10023 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: 14:42:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r3218): When selling trains, if there were no wagons between multiheaded 14:42:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: engines the rear part could be checked despite having already been deleted, 14:42:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: triggering an assert. 14:47:00 *** Apocalipsys [~Apocalips@190.156.92.125] has joined #openttd 14:52:29 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065231.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:55:56 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 14:57:03 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-111-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:06:14 <nairan> grr im stuck 15:06:18 <nairan> in wll 15:06:54 <nairan> i fell down near bd at the lont road up to the bd fort and now im fown at the ground stuck in the floor 15:07:12 <nairan> !commit 1000 15:07:16 <nairan> hmpf 15:07:30 <nairan> wrong window 15:07:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> wtf? 15:08:40 <nairan> bad to write in the wrong cha 15:08:43 <nairan> t 15:20:45 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-111-84.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:46 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B78879.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 15:24:19 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd 15:32:16 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:32:45 *** HMage [Queneex@89-178-172-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:34:00 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:38:28 *** graeme [~graeme@88-104-86-169.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:38 *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb4120.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10024 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Feature: [build windows] trains, road vehicles and ships can now be sorted by cargo capacity (planes already had this option) 15:42:04 <Wolf01> good 15:44:08 *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb4120.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 15:47:24 <_Mist_> aggregated cargo capacity? 15:47:31 <_Mist_> awesome 15:48:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10025 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: 15:48:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: [build windows] sorting planes for capacity didn't check mail capacity. Now mail capacity is used if passenger capacity is the same 15:48:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The sort will still resort to EngineID if both mail and passenger capacities are the same 15:48:21 <Bjarni> now that part should be ok 15:48:26 <_Mist_> nice, nice 15:48:46 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti131310a341-1611.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: edgepro: Why are you staring at my shoes? They're perfectly normal.] 15:48:55 <peter1138> git, i just compiled ;( 15:49:03 <Bjarni> it's just one cpp file 15:49:07 <Bjarni> no headers or lang files 15:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> how do trains with multiple cargos get handled? 15:49:32 <Bjarni> it's in the build window 15:49:44 <Phazorx> coopers server crashes again :/ 15:49:49 <Phazorx> diff problem tho 15:50:15 <Bjarni> so it just reads the same number as the one printed in the cargo capacity in the details part of the window 15:50:52 <Bjarni> so if it sorts cargo incorrectly, then it's because it's also printed incorrectly 15:50:59 <Bjarni> I think 15:51:07 <Bjarni> anyway it shouldn't cause any problems 15:51:39 <Bjarni> dualheaded engines are sorted with their combined capacities 15:52:06 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti131310a341-1611.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 15:52:58 <Maedhros> Phazorx: what's the problem this time? 15:53:53 <Phazorx> peter1138 says iy is fixed already http://cia.vc/stats/project/OpenTTD/.message/622598 15:54:04 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:54:22 <peter1138> did i say that? :p 15:54:42 <Phazorx> implied sorry 15:54:44 <peter1138> Maedhros: though i'm investing this multihead/wagon bug 15:54:57 <Maedhros> ok, cool 15:55:40 *** moe [~maui_key@p5498E96C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:42 <peter1138> err 15:55:46 <peter1138> investigating, of course 15:55:52 <Phazorx> peter1138: did i misunderstoof that? #10020 does fix /src/train.h:234: Vehicle* GetNextVehicle(const Vehicle*): Assertion `v->type == VEH_TRAIN' failed. 15:56:12 <Phazorx> investing time = investigating 15:56:35 <Maedhros> Phazorx: it fixes one of them, yes... 15:56:53 <Maedhros> was anyone selling an aeroplane when it happened? 15:57:10 <Maedhros> alternatively, do you have disasters turned on? 15:57:28 <Phazorx> disasters are off for sure 15:57:38 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498e28c.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:57:51 <Phazorx> selling a chopper apparently was the trigger 15:58:12 <Phazorx> is it shared orders related? 15:58:19 <Maedhros> ok, then it was fixed by r10020 15:58:33 <hylje> great :) 15:58:50 <Phazorx> heh coop should get renamed to beta test team 15:58:52 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:59:03 <Maedhros> it's not to do with shared orders - it's calling GetNextVehicle which is only valid for trains on aircraft 15:59:18 *** pecet [~pecet@btb50.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:35 <Phazorx> i figured that, but i'm not familiar with what that function does 16:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: example, i have a train with 1 mail wagon, and 4 passenger wagons, then a train with 4 passenger wagons, and 1 mail wagon (same capacity, different order), how does this get compared? 16:00:41 *** redmonkey [~redmonkey@84.160.76.100] has quit [Quit: bye! and keep up the good work guys!] 16:00:54 <Maedhros> vehicles are linked lists - aircraft have 2 parts, trains have as many as you want 16:01:06 <Maedhros> but trains also have articulated parts which are skipped by GetNextVehicle 16:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> other example, i have a train with 2 livestock wagons, and 3 grain wagons, then one with 3 livestock wagons, 2 grain wagons (one capacity higher, one lower) 16:01:28 <Maedhros> but to do that it needs to check v->subtype, which holds different values depending on the vehicle type 16:01:30 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548a6558.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:01:41 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548a6558.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 16:01:44 <peter1138> ok 16:01:48 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: it's the build window, so it's not the list of actual trains, but the available engines 16:01:48 <peter1138> i'm blaming bjarni on this one ;p 16:02:07 <peter1138> reverting r9973 makes the crash go away 16:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> ah... then i misunderstood things... :) 16:02:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> !openttd commit 9973 16:02:34 <_42_> Commit by bjarni :: r9973 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2007-05-29 10:35:52 UTC) 16:02:36 <_42_> -Cleanup: removed some code that kept both ends of a dualheaded engine in the same train (when moving wagons in a depot) 16:02:38 <_42_> NormaliseTrainConsist() is called later in the same command and it will take care of this issue 16:03:37 <Bjarni> great, I fix one issue and then another one appears 16:03:48 <Bjarni> but I have yet to figure out what went wrong this time :/ 16:03:50 <hylje> bjarnism 16:03:51 <hylje> :p 16:03:58 * Bjarni slaps hylje 16:04:27 <peter1138> Bjarni: triggered by building a multiheaded engine, putting a couple of wagons on it, then ctrl-moving all the wagons off, and then ctrl-moving them all back again 16:04:57 <peter1138> possibly other combinations, but that does it always, for me 16:09:23 <Bjarni> hmm 16:09:24 <Bjarni> odd 16:09:41 <Bjarni> looks like the next pointer isn't set up like it should 16:09:53 <Bjarni> or something 16:11:11 *** lolman_ [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> is the normalise function called for both consists? 16:12:43 *** lolman_ [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 16:18:39 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:58 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:31:23 <Phazorx> multihead bug strikes coopers server again :/ 16:31:52 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, but that's not the problem 16:35:44 <Maedhros> Phazorx: what happened this time? 16:36:38 <Phazorx> selling turbotrain crashed it apparently 16:37:19 <Maedhros> was it a multiheaded train without any carriages inbetween? 16:37:33 <Phazorx> turbotrain is dualhead 16:38:09 <Maedhros> did it have any carriages? and was someone selling it? 16:38:21 <Phazorx> someone was selling it 16:38:25 <Phazorx> cghecking on carriage status 16:38:39 <Maedhros> it was probably fixed by r10023 :) 16:40:48 <Phazorx> i guess we have to wait for nighty to figure it out 16:42:32 <Bjarni> hmm, one step closer to what goes on 16:43:17 <Bjarni> some cache isn't updated when moving the wagons OUT of the train and when it relies on the cache when adding them again, it asserts 16:45:13 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:32 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:47 <Wolf01> is here a developer available to help me fixing the main title viewport scroll patch? 17:03:10 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:03:13 <Thomas[NL]> what do you guys think of http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/one-way%20new.png? 17:04:25 <Wolf01> look nice, but i prefer vertical signals at road sides :) 17:04:37 <Noldo> The arrows look nice but the road it self not so much 17:04:41 <Maedhros> Thomas[NL]: looks nice 17:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> these arrows look really bad... 17:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> rather put an arrow on each lane... 17:05:23 <Thomas[NL]> I'll try that 17:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> and on the sloped roads, they are off center 17:07:15 <Thomas[NL]> they use the same graphics as the flat road, also in the "original" one-way arrows 17:08:17 <Bjarni> finally. Now I know what went wrong 17:08:25 <Bjarni> now the big question is how to fix it... 17:08:39 *** UndernotBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.248] has joined #openttd 17:08:40 <peter1138> revert that commit ;p 17:08:44 <Bjarni> no 17:09:13 <Bjarni> because then we will be back to the bug that the previous commit fixed 17:10:56 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:18 *** Calamarain [~me@host81-153-222-225.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:59 <UndernotBuilder> -Fix (r10008): Add articulated_vehicles.h to the project files. 17:14:00 <UndernotBuilder> :O 17:16:23 <hylje> :o 17:23:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r10026 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: 17:23:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: unlinking a rail vehicle didn't clear the first pointer 17:23:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: After r9973, this could cause some asserts as some vehicles could end up with first pointers to chains they didn't belong to 17:26:01 <Bjarni> Phazorx: this should solve your issue and it's in time for the next nightly build (in half an hour) 17:29:58 <Thomas[NL]> Something like this Wolf01 ? http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/sign.png (just one sign at a time not both on the same tile) 17:30:18 <Wolf01> yes, i really like that 17:31:07 <Bjarni> remember roadsides should apply ;) 17:31:19 <Wolf01> yeah 17:31:20 <Bjarni> it's not everybody, who drives on the left 17:31:26 <Wolf01> that would be cool 17:33:22 <Bjarni> damn, what a stupid bug... I spent ages debugging, backtracing and source reading just to add one simple line >_< 17:34:55 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-227-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 17:36:08 <Bjarni> spending 90 minutes on entering 16 chars of code... that's one char every 5,6 minute o_O 17:37:42 <Wolf01> i own you all, 4 hours to make one line of code like "if (st->owner != player) {" 17:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: the line on the front sign should have an angle. like the lines of the road 17:38:22 <Bjarni> Wolf01: nice one 17:38:37 <Bjarni> well, my line was just var = NULL; 17:38:49 <Thomas[NL]> Eddi|zuHause3, your right 17:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: and you probably get issues with vehicles driving "over" the sign 17:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> unless you handle them like rail signals 17:39:42 <Bjarni> he should 17:40:43 <Phazorx> Bjarni: thanks 17:40:51 <Wolf01> so.. this feature requires a patch 17:41:27 <Bjarni> usually new features has a strange demand for modifying the code ;) 17:43:04 <Phazorx> heh as i justr said to coopers - i hate trams already w/o even seeing them 17:43:27 <Phazorx> snowball effect is not very motivating 17:43:32 * Sacro thinks he should have commit rights 17:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you introduce code to handle road signs like rail signals, you also have no problem with traffic side, because you can just switch it 17:43:43 <Bjarni> snowball effect? 17:43:50 <Maedhros> Phazorx: those bugs had nothing to do with trams :p 17:43:54 <Phazorx> btw anyone looked into stillunknown idea? 17:44:04 <Bjarni> the caching thing? 17:44:05 <Bjarni> yes 17:44:17 <Thomas[NL]> Eddi|zuHause3: I tried to make the line angled: http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/sign2.png 17:44:22 <Phazorx> Bjarni: you change little thing that is supposed to be fine and discover whole chain of events tstarting from it 17:44:32 <Bjarni> ahh 17:44:46 <Bjarni> well 17:44:56 <Bjarni> I broke dualheaded engine because of some bug 17:44:58 <Phazorx> Maedhros: exactly... but i figure implementing trams caused revamping od some common parts that uncovered old issues 17:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... not enough, i think, Thomas[NL] 17:45:05 <Bjarni> and the fix uncovered another bug 17:45:10 <Bjarni> and that fix caused this 17:45:14 <Wolf01> Bjarni, you have 5 minutes to fix them :P 17:45:26 <Phazorx> Bjarni - will cacghing make it into truck soon 17:45:36 <Phazorx> i kinda liked performance boost of that 17:45:44 <Phazorx> trunk 17:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: there are still issues with some corner cases 17:46:20 <Bjarni> ahh yes, the original bug that I fixed was autoreplacing trains with 100 wagons 17:46:23 <Phazorx> Bjarni: that fix for a fix of a fix reminds me of MS bugs -"there was an error diplaying an error for unknownn error" 17:46:28 <Bjarni> and that broke dualheaded engines 17:46:30 <Wolf01> i wonder if caching will be extended to ships too 17:46:40 <Bjarni> fixing that broke something else regarding dualheaded engines 17:46:51 <Phazorx> Bjarni: figures 17:46:54 <Phazorx> but i still hate trams 17:47:09 <Maedhros> you should probably hate articulated road vehicles instead ;) 17:47:31 <Bjarni> actually I didn't cause new bugs, I just made it easier to trigger bugs we already had in the code 17:47:38 <moe> hmm where to make the one way roads active? 17:47:39 <stillunknown> Phazorx: the main issue currently is that weird cases like trains going trough itself need to be handled. 17:47:43 <Phazorx> "... I found the fork later. But we feelings are gone now" 17:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> i love trams, hopefully, there will be a complete tram set... 17:48:01 <stillunknown> trams made it into ottd? 17:48:09 <Bjarni> yes 17:48:47 <moe> how to buld one way roads?(latest nightly (10015) 17:48:56 <Bjarni> some control thing 17:48:57 <Bjarni> I think 17:48:59 <Zuu> yes 17:49:01 <Maedhros> control click with the road building tool 17:49:03 <Phazorx> ctrl + click 17:49:13 <Zuu> ctrl-drag also works. 17:49:18 <Phazorx> stillunknown: but there is hope right? 17:49:32 <moe> thanks phazor 17:49:54 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:49:58 <stillunknown> Phazorx: Ofcource there is, but i'm still considering various solutions. 17:49:58 <Phazorx> how about one way bridges? 17:50:16 <Bjarni> <Phazorx> stillunknown: but there is hope right? <-- well, it depends if I can figure out some outer rare cases where it will fail :p 17:50:20 <Phazorx> stillunknown: i see... your efforts are gretly appreciated 17:50:41 <Phazorx> Bjarni: coopers are good for figuring out rare cases when soemtihng that usualy works - fails 17:50:45 <Thomas[NL]> better? http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/sign3.png 17:51:01 <Bjarni> we better get this one right from the start as it affect savegames and buggy data is saved 17:51:23 <stillunknown> I agree. 17:51:37 <Bjarni> Thomas[NL]: the right one is still wrong :p 17:51:51 <Thomas[NL]> yeah, don't look at that one :) 17:53:18 <peter1138> oooh, tram bug :D 17:53:33 <Bjarni> hurry up and fix it before the nightly builds 17:53:39 <Maedhros> peter1138: you're good at finding these :) 17:53:51 <peter1138> heh 17:54:05 <peter1138> basically, have a 'built-up' road with trees on it 17:54:19 <peter1138> build a tram track perpendicular across it, with no roads 17:54:27 <peter1138> the trees are still there, right on the tracks 17:54:59 <stillunknown> One of the solutions i'm considering, is during VehicleEnterTile check for crossing track and occupancy > 1, then iterate trough train, if wagon is on same tile --> add a flag to vehicle (which can be increased when more crossings happen), the last wagon does the same and will remove the flag when the crossing ends. 17:55:08 *** Frostregen__ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-121-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: the left one looks ok now 17:55:27 *** Frostregen__ is now known as Frostregen_ 17:56:00 <Bjarni> stillunknown: not good enough. Imagine a circle line where the train is 3 times as long as the tracks. It will drive on top of itself even on tiles without crosses 17:56:44 <Maedhros> why is that trains can't crash into themselves again? they could in tto, as far as i remember... 17:56:56 <stillunknown> Bjarni: But the train still has an end, which can detect if another section is on that tile 17:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, they never crashed 17:57:30 <peter1138> damn, cs trams are too long 17:57:32 <peter1138> not articulated :( 17:57:34 <Maedhros> no? oh, ok then 17:58:21 <Phazorx> stillunknown: i'm not very familiar with the code - but what is the special case with train going thorugh itself? 17:58:33 <Phazorx> and should that be handled in same fasion as any other colision? 17:58:37 <stillunknown> Bjarni: so the last wagon and the first check each tile, if they are entering a tile that isn't a simple track and if a train is already present on that tile 17:58:53 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: www.sexybiggetje.nl] 17:58:57 <stillunknown> phazorx: trains can ride through themselves, in circles if you want 17:58:58 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-188-006.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:17 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 17:59:34 <Bjarni> trains can drive though itself on tiles that are simple tracks 17:59:36 <Phazorx> stillunknown: is that on purpose? 17:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: the problem with a "flag" is, that it can run in circles multiple times 17:59:53 <stillunknown> that flag would be a counter 18:00:12 <Maedhros> Phazorx: well, it was done deliberately, yes 18:00:21 <stillunknown> But i agree a circle situation could be problematic. 18:01:00 <Phazorx> Maedhros: weird :) 18:01:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i have a suggestion 18:01:37 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you count the multiple train multiple times 18:02:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you have to recheck if the counter is >= 3 18:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can walk through the train 18:02:12 <Phazorx> wasnt that supposde to be 1bit counter? 18:02:26 <stillunknown> the counter in the map is 2bits 18:02:32 *** lolman [lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:43 <stillunknown> Since common situations do include 2 trains on one tile. 18:02:43 <Phazorx> stillunknown: is that 1 flag 4 cases or 2 flags ? 18:02:46 <Bjarni> stillunknown: http://devs.openttd.org/~bjarni/circle.png 18:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> and if the tile of the next wagon is different than the tile on the current wagon 18:02:48 <Phazorx> and what they would represent ? 18:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can increase the counter again 18:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> that way, the train will be counted multiple times even on recheck 18:03:13 <Bjarni> stillunknown: notice the last circle... it's normal tracks (no switches or crossings), yet the train is on top of itself 18:03:35 <hylje> silly example is sillyyyyy 18:03:49 <stillunknown> normal track is track that doesn't have branches 18:03:58 <Bjarni> yeah, but it's a matter of not leaving incorrect cache behind 18:04:03 <stillunknown> But i see the problem of this situation. 18:06:01 <Thomas[NL]> pretty much finished I think: http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/sign5.png 18:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> so you can have a function: RecheckTrain(front engine) { for each (wagon) {if (previous tile != this tile) { increase counter } } } 18:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: but still the issue is, that vehicles will not drive "behind" the sign, but "over" the sign 18:07:39 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause3: I think so too, but i'm not 100% sure. 18:07:42 <Bjarni> the thing is: whatever we do, it shouldn't kill the performance boost or the whole idea is gone 18:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: circling trains should be rare 18:08:06 <Thomas[NL]> Eddi|zuHause3, yes I know, but I don't think I'm the one to solve that :) 18:08:33 <Bjarni> but the conditions where we should check if they are circling isn't, unless we figure out how to do this right 18:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> so if we could find an efficient check, if the train is circling 18:08:45 <Maedhros> Eddi|zuHause3: only if they're drawn as ground tiles 18:09:21 <Bjarni> hmm 18:09:27 <Bjarni> I think I have an idea 18:09:46 <Bjarni> just let it count each time a train passes 18:10:39 <Bjarni> and solve the issue when the counter reaches 3. When calculating what the counter should be when decreasing, find the front engine and loop though the train to count how many times it passes though the tile in question 18:10:54 <Bjarni> and make some clever device to ensure that each train is only counted once 18:11:02 <stillunknown> You can keep a crossing counter in the train, were you could use a byte. 18:11:11 <stillunknown> Or even larger. 18:11:48 <Bjarni> I was thinking about keeping the crossing counter in a function, so it only lives as long as it counts the number of trains on the tile 18:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could have a flag in the front engine "circling", each time the engine enters a tile with count > 0, you check if it's circling (i.e. loop through all wagons), and each time the last wagon leaves a tile, and circling flag is set, recheck the flag 18:12:11 <Bjarni> and only call that function whenever the tile should be decreased and the count is 3 18:12:22 <UndernotBuilder> what means 'GRM' in -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos 18:12:40 <Bjarni> then the only time we will really waste CPU cycles is when trains circle or when the count is 3, both rare cases 18:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> [2007-06-02 11:09] <Maedhros> grf resource management - designed to avoid conflicts between grf files 18:13:06 <hylje> i think we can even assert out on circling trains 18:13:10 <hylje> its silly enough :-) 18:13:14 <Bjarni> NO 18:13:19 <Bjarni> that can break MP games 18:13:24 * peter1138 asserts out hylje 18:13:40 <hylje> yeah well, its nice for dos :) 18:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: asserts are for situations that (theoretically) can never occure 18:13:47 <Phazorx> hmm... can someone englighten me on what the flag actualy represents? 18:13:49 <stillunknown> Bjarni: what you want would require each car to check almost all other cars for matches. 18:13:52 * Tefad asserts his EXPLICTIVE-DELETED 18:14:11 <stillunknown> More efficient to let the first do the check and the last, and store in the train. 18:14:35 <Kjetil> What kind of a exiting problem av we discussing ? 18:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: e.g. train driving on a tile that has no rail 18:14:53 <Bjarni> stillunknown: it's in the case where the count is 3 and a reduction is requested, then it should count the trains to see if it should still be 3 or just 2 18:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> but train circling is a situation that can occure by the game logic 18:16:00 <stillunknown> Bjarni: It's a bad idea to let the same train count twice, better to let the train register once and unregister it's completely gone. 18:16:05 <Bjarni> stillunknown: actually how do you plan to figure out if it should be 3 or 2 when the count is 3 and a decrease is requested? 18:17:17 <kaan> I think that counting the same train twice is a nice way to get to check for self collision 18:17:25 <stillunknown> I made a function that uses the hash map, to count when needed. 18:17:56 <Bjarni> stillunknown: but in order to save CPU cycles, what would we gain most of? making a train count twice in this rare event or add some checks whenever a train enters or leaves a tile? 18:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> kaan: actually, the self collision has no game effect, so we don't need to check it, but it is a corner case that kills the cache idea 18:18:34 <kaan> actually, what ever the solution we should make a spin-off snake game out of it ;) 18:18:53 <Kjetil> hahaha 18:19:17 <stillunknown> It is my understanding that the hashmap only gives one entry for a train, but i will have to check if that's an easy way out. 18:20:15 <Bjarni> the easy way out is not to do anything. We want the bugfree and fast way out of this one ;) 18:20:45 <kaan> Bjarni, the conservative spirit personified :D 18:21:24 <stillunknown> Bjarni: known corner cases need to be handled, preferably in a way that is not expensive the rest of the time 18:21:38 <kaan> But you are right, a change like this should only be made once it is proven to have no ill effects at all 18:22:58 <Bjarni> stillunknown: and that's why I would put the extra CPU load on the case where the counter is 3 (rare) and don't care about the extra collision tests when the train crosses itself (even more rare) 18:23:20 <Bjarni> and prevent tests in more common cases 18:23:33 <Bjarni> like train entering/leaving tile 18:23:41 <Bjarni> bbl 18:23:45 <stillunknown> But this would still require some awareness of crossing itself. 18:24:11 <kaan> that awareness is not that hard to acheive is it? 18:24:18 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:24:29 <stillunknown> kaan: I have an idea, which i'm trying. 18:24:32 <kaan> you know the start of the train and you know when the end is exiting 18:24:39 <Phazorx> hmm.. different issue - why is there a train window oppening for many/all players when new train is created?? 18:24:42 <Phazorx> new kind of allert? 18:24:49 <Phazorx> sorry recreated 18:25:47 <kaan> so if the start of the train is on the same tile as a wagon that is not the end then we know that a crossing is in progress 18:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> stillunknown: have you considered my last idea? 18:26:30 <stillunknown> You mean count the number of crossings? 18:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> not count 18:26:41 <kaan> yup 18:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> just flag 18:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. 1 bit 18:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> counting is unnecessary 18:27:56 <kaan> Phazorx: i havent got a clue, is there a bug report on it? 18:28:00 <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29451&highlight=collision <- a patch for train collision is here, i don't know if it wokrs 18:28:11 *** Gorre [dik@ip-89-102-198-103.karneval.cz] has joined #openttd 18:28:13 <stillunknown> Eddi|ZuHause3: good point 18:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> the case is so rare, instead of saving the count, you can just recalculate it 18:28:38 <Phazorx> kaan: i doubt it 18:28:46 <Gorre> [hello~] 18:28:50 <Phazorx> i'm clarifiying if this is expected behavior or not 18:29:05 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:11 <Phazorx> if any of devs will join coopers game- you'll see it after 5 min or so 18:29:36 <peter1138> yeah, problem is the window popping up is based on company, not network client 18:29:50 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:53 *** HMage [Queneex@89-178-172-215.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:29:55 <Phazorx> so i take it is unplanned then 18:30:01 <Phazorx> no biggie tho 18:30:54 <peter1138> hmm 18:30:57 <peter1138> unless it's a new one :p 18:32:16 <Phazorx> peter1138: pops up when trains are manualy upgraded 18:32:29 <Phazorx> as in park/sell/buy 18:32:49 <Thomas[NL]> what do you say about: http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/road_closed.png (it got flashy lights on the top :) ) 18:32:51 <peter1138> new bug, not new vehicle 18:33:11 <Phazorx> i figured that 18:33:19 <Sionide> hmm 18:33:25 <Phazorx> i guess it can have "feature" status since it is not fatal :) 18:33:39 <peter1138> well afaik it's done that for a *long* time 18:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> Thomas[NL]: looks fun, especially if it is animated :) 18:34:16 <peter1138> hmm, actually 18:34:23 <peter1138> it doesn't for me 18:34:37 <Phazorx> peter1138: are you on cooop game? 18:34:39 <Maedhros> Thomas[NL]: that'll look very weird for rvs driving through from the other side ;) 18:34:46 <peter1138> yes 18:35:15 <Thomas[NL]> Maedhros, ooh didn't think of that... 18:35:59 <Wolf01> do competitors vehicles ignore the allowed direction of the road? 18:36:08 <Wolf01> *disallowed 18:36:24 <UndernotBuilder> updated to r10026 again by bugfixes? 18:36:25 <Phazorx> peter1138: part of company? 18:36:30 <UndernotBuilder> sorry wrong 18:36:32 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:40 <peter1138> same company yes 18:36:51 <UndernotBuilder> what means 'GRM' in -Codechange: Implement GRM for newcargos 18:37:11 <peter1138> that same as it meant last time 18:39:47 <Phazorx> peter1138: i see it when other do it 18:39:55 <Phazorx> and when i do it -they see it :/ 18:40:38 <kaan> Could we use UndernotBuilders collision system for PBS? 18:41:23 <Tefad> heh revision 10000.. 18:41:31 <Tefad> i remember the second svn reset 18:41:46 <Tefad> the first one was a while ago 18:41:52 <stillunknown> Anyone know of function which gives the trackbits for a specific tile number? 18:42:25 <stillunknown> ignore that 18:42:33 <kaan> sorry, not UndernotBuilder, but stillunknown of course *blush* 18:44:44 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0CD7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:17 *** HMage [Queneex@89-178-126-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:48:29 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0D638.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:18 <Phazorx> peter1138: it looks like it happens when moving orders to reassigned car which beciome active engine ? 18:50:29 <Phazorx> cuz if i sell 2nd engine 1st it does not happen 18:50:42 <Phazorx> but if i seel primary - it pops up for most/all players 18:56:04 *** HMage` [Queneex@89-178-105-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:58:42 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-44-230.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 19:00:55 *** Sleepie [~Sleepie@p54B379E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> <stillunknown> Anyone know of function which gives the trackbits for a specific tile number? <- i'd search in rail_map.h :) 19:03:24 *** HMage [Queneex@89-178-126-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:02 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-44-230.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:00 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:52 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:19:47 <izhirahider> How can I test trams to be able to see how they work? Do I have to download some extra thing? 19:20:14 <Bjarni> yeah 19:20:18 <Bjarni> a tram grf file 19:20:49 <izhirahider> If I get a tram grf file, will it always be available to construction, or do I need to activate an ooption somewhere 19:21:54 <Bjarni> it will appear in the game when the grf is active 19:22:04 <Bjarni> as a road type 19:22:13 <Bjarni> like there are multiple rail types 19:24:21 <izhirahider> why isn't a tram grf included in the repo? 19:24:41 <Bjarni> no 19:24:41 *** UndernotBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.104.248] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 19:25:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> izhirahider: same as why there are no alternative railsets included 19:26:33 <izhirahider> there are 19:26:50 <izhirahider> electrical, monorail, maglev 19:27:21 <Maedhros> those are railtypes, and that's because they were in the original game :p 19:28:38 <izhirahider> ah, by railsets you mean same trains but with different namings and image representation 19:29:00 <peter1138> well no, different trains... 19:29:25 <Sacro> i want 3rd and 4 rail 19:29:30 <izhirahider> Where can I find the tram grf? The wiki doesn't say 19:29:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> where you find all other grfs 19:29:43 <peter1138> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ 19:29:49 <peter1138> Sacro: draw it and i'll make it 19:30:26 <Bjarni> Sacro: while you are at it, can you draw narrow gauge as well? 19:30:38 <Maedhros> someone's already done that 19:30:38 <peter1138> well narrow gauge is already drawn 19:31:09 <izhirahider> Please consider adding grfcrawler to http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/GRF_list 19:31:23 <Bjarni> you can do it 19:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> if i load a narrow gauge railset, will narrow gauge replace a railtype, or add a railtype? 19:33:21 <Maedhros> it's not possible to add railtypes yet 19:33:31 <Sacro> fine, i'll draw some railtypes 19:33:51 <Sacro> izhirahider: add it yourself :p tis a wiki 19:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i thought the system was prepared for this 19:34:35 <Bjarni> not yet 19:38:12 <Thomas[NL]> do these signs (left road) http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/one-way%20sign.png look a bit like this http://proto.thinkquest.nl/~klb019/images/Bord-C03.gif ? 19:39:20 <Maedhros> it's not easy to make out the arrow - maybe you could make the sign more rectangular? 19:39:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, looks more like a cross rather than an arrow 19:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> pherhaps move the left and right white pixels a little more up 19:40:36 <Sacro> one way should be a rectangle, no entry should be octagonal 19:40:43 <Sacro> so you can differ when facing away 19:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> no entry is round 19:41:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> not octagonal 19:41:18 <Sacro> duh... 19:41:22 <Sacro> stop is octagonal >< 19:41:28 * Sacro fails at driving 19:41:43 <Bjarni> at driving as well??? 19:41:46 <Tefad> wtf 19:42:02 <Tefad> no entry is square with circle 19:42:07 <Tefad> and white bar 19:42:10 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@81-236-230-128-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:10 <hylje> Sacro fails in general 19:42:20 <Sacro> Tefad: no entry should be round 19:42:25 <Tefad> road signs are going to be interesting ; ) 19:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tefad: where do you live? 19:42:33 <Tefad> US has different signs than EU 19:42:42 <Tefad> US 19:42:59 <Tefad> no entry signs are rectangular with red circle and white horizontal bar in the middle 19:43:02 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@81-236-230-128-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:43:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tefad: http://proto.thinkquest.nl/~klb019/images/Bord-C02.gif 19:43:30 <Tefad> sometimes "DO NOT \ ENTER" is written in the red margins of the circle 19:43:46 <Tefad> yes, that's always on a rectangular sign 19:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> the sign is round, not rectangular 19:43:57 <Tefad> it's rectangular 19:44:02 <Tefad> i've never seen it on a round sign in the US 19:44:06 <Thomas[NL]> yeah I'll write Do no enter on the sign :P 19:44:08 <hylje> DO NOT WANT 19:44:12 <Tefad> i don't think i've seen round signs in the US 19:44:17 <Tefad> other than RR crossing signs 19:45:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> http://proto.thinkquest.nl/~klb019/images/Bord-C01.gif <- these also mean no entry, but not in combination with one-way roads 19:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> most signs in europe are round 19:45:25 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: that means no vehicles 19:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: exactly, vehicles may not enter 19:45:48 <Sacro> going either way 19:45:57 <Tefad> http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/olawlor/projects/2003/roadsigns/regulatory/r5-1.png 19:46:12 <Thomas[NL]> hmm http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.htm 19:46:30 <Bjarni> it's usually combined with a sign telling exceptions like busses, local residents or similar 19:47:25 <Thomas[NL]> any better now? http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/one-way%20sign.png 19:47:36 <Sacro> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/images/sign049.gif <- WEEEEEEEEE 19:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, better 19:48:02 <Sacro> yeah 19:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's difficult on that scale :) 19:48:23 <Thomas[NL]> indeed :) 19:48:29 <Sacro> though i'd prefer the arrow to be on a vertical rectangle 19:48:42 <Sacro> http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/sign066.htm 19:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: that forbids powered vehicles, but allows unpowered vehicles (bikes etc.) 19:49:23 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: yes i know 19:50:03 <Thomas[NL]> I'll try Sacro 19:50:09 <peter1138> Sacro: re drawing railtypes, i do have a plan for adding them, see... 19:50:20 <peter1138> so it'll be useful... 19:50:28 <hylje> its not like we have bicycle traffic here 19:51:06 <Sacro> peter1138: oh? cos i know the LUSet would like 4 rail to run on 19:51:17 <Sacro> and i think BRSet would use 3rd rail 19:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> can i have overhead rail? (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuppertaler_Schwebebahn) :p 19:52:49 <hylje> wuppertal is silly :-p 19:52:55 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: surely you just render the track after the train? 19:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> although that is technically a tram 19:53:17 <hylje> Sacro: and reasonably higher 19:55:45 <Sacro> yeah... 19:55:52 <Sacro> now shall i reboot into linux and do some graphics 19:56:00 <izhirahider> How do I know if I'm using DOS or WIN grfs? 19:56:05 <peter1138> that just looks like a hanging monorail to me ;p 19:56:20 <hylje> izhirahider: win grfs tend to have "w" appended to the filename before .grf 19:56:40 <Bjarni> izhirahider: if you see a lot of pink in the sprites, then it's the DOS ones 19:57:37 <Thomas[NL]> Sacro, does this look more like a vertical rectangle? http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/one-way%20sign%20smaller%3f.png 19:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> 404 19:58:33 <Zuu> 200 19:58:35 <Sacro> Thomas[NL]: it looks a bit better, yeah 19:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> gets confused with the questionmark, i assume 19:59:04 <Thomas[NL]> http://www.xs4all.nl/~burgtvaj/one-way%20sign%20rec.png 19:59:07 <Thomas[NL]> renamed 19:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> as questionmarks are reserved for dynamic content 19:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause3> i liked the previous one better 19:59:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: richk * r10027 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (313 files in 21 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r9506-10026 20:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> that was a huge commit :p 20:00:17 <izhirahider> Bjarni, I see pink and brown 20:00:30 <izhirahider> Mostly brown road, full of dots 20:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never seen a 500 revisions sync before :) 20:01:26 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> most of the time, people would do 5 times 100 revisions 20:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> or similar 20:03:13 <peter1138> richk is not known for his syncing skills :p 20:03:59 <Sacro> ooh, he's still alive then 20:08:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10028 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: 20:08:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r2270/r2951): When deleting the first engine of a train with multiple 20:08:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: engines, only reopen the train window if the player had the original train 20:08:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: window open. This fixes 'random' windows opening for multiple players of the 20:08:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: same company. 20:09:13 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:09:25 <hylje> yay 20:09:40 <hylje> i just had some random trainz popping up 20:09:51 <Sacro> http://electricpotential.net/ircstats/openttd.html 20:09:54 <Sacro> them are some old stats 20:10:10 <hylje> thar 20:10:49 <peter1138> freenode? hehe 20:11:05 <Sacro> yeah, but the list of people too 20:11:15 <Sacro> Celestar, Hackykid, DarkSSH 20:11:22 <peter1138> Luca 20:11:24 <peter1138> sacro 20:11:31 <peter1138> oh, you're still here. shame ;p 20:11:36 <Sacro> :o 20:11:39 <hylje> i expected that 20:11:50 <Sacro> what happened to LoTP? 20:11:54 <peter1138> singaporekid, hehe 20:12:17 <Bjarni> heh, in those stats, everybody talks about OpenTTD, except Eddi|zuHause3 :p 20:12:27 <hylje> irony 20:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> hehe :p 20:12:43 <peter1138> might've been talking about a track from ttd... 20:12:52 <Bjarni> <Sacro> what happened to LoTP? <-- he took a hike and never returned 20:13:04 <Bjarni> or something 20:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> "Statistics generated on Friday 26 January 2007" <- it's not exactly current 20:13:25 <hylje> its on freenode 20:13:26 <Bjarni> you mean you like to be less off topic now? 20:13:40 <Bjarni> do anybody have an up to date one? 20:13:43 <hylje> no 20:13:46 <hylje> but i could generate 20:13:47 <peter1138> DOES 20:13:52 <hylje> HAS 20:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> !stats 20:14:02 <_42_> Eddi|zuHause3: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/stats/openttd.html 20:14:16 <peter1138> hee, official 20:14:17 <peter1138> wtf 20:14:21 <peter1138> i talk the most? :o 20:14:29 <Sacro> yes 20:14:32 <hylje> you just had three lines that 20:14:33 <hylje> thar 20:14:42 <hylje> its more likely than you think 20:15:12 <Sacro> ^_^ wrote an average of 46.00 words per line. 20:15:26 <hylje> i could top that 20:15:28 <Bjarni> "it's like denying you're human" <-- jez did that? 20:15:41 <hylje> by faking a nickname and going "a a a..." 20:15:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 296 times! <- now that is impressive :p 20:15:52 <hylje> Sacro couldn't decide whether to stay or go. 842 joins during this reporting period! 20:15:55 <hylje> paste tiem 20:16:01 <Sacro> http://guru3.sytes.net/ircstats/openttd2.html newstats 20:16:17 <hylje> magic stats 20:16:19 <peter1138> nick "i" 20:16:20 <peter1138> :/ 20:16:32 <hylje> what about you 20:16:36 <Bjarni> Bjarni spoke a total of 214766 words! 20:16:38 <hylje> i mean 20:16:39 <hylje> "you" 20:16:45 <Bjarni> heh, I use more words than peter1138 20:17:00 <hylje> unpossible 20:17:00 *** moe [~maui_key@p5498E96C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 20:17:03 <hylje> u r teh bjarni! 20:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, someone should join the stats of TrueLight and TrueBrain 20:17:18 *** moe [~Maui_key@p5498E96C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:17:25 <guru3> Sacro: :o 20:17:33 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:17:37 <Sacro> :o 20:17:38 <Sacro> he found us 20:17:42 <hylje> oooh 20:17:54 <guru3> i had no idea those were still updating 20:17:59 <guru3> or really 20:18:07 <guru3> i had no idea anyone was still using the guru3.sytes.net domain 20:18:10 <Bjarni> It seems that Xera's shift-key is hanging: 10.5% of the time he/she wrote UPPERCASE. 20:18:10 <Bjarni> For example, like this: 20:18:10 <Bjarni> <Xera> XDDD 20:18:12 <Bjarni> LOL 20:18:46 <guru3> good old massive waste of cpu power 20:19:04 <Bjarni> Poor Sacro, nobody likes him/her. He/She was attacked 32 times. 20:19:07 <Bjarni> I knew that 20:19:12 * Bjarni slaps Sacro 20:19:23 <Bjarni> now it's 33 times 20:19:25 <Bjarni> :p 20:19:28 * Sacro slaps Bjarni 20:19:29 <guru3> CIA is sad lol 20:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni is a very aggressive person. He/She attacked others 40 times. 20:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> 32 times of that Sacro, i believe :p 20:19:56 *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [there is no way that you should be allowed to attack me] 20:20:04 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:20:06 *** Bjarni was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [why not?] 20:20:06 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x535ca25f.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:20:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 20:20:09 * Sacro slaps Bjarni 20:20:10 <Sacro> :d 20:20:12 <Sacro> *:D 20:20:39 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065231.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:40 <dihedral> how would i go about using tram roads in r 10002? 20:20:42 <moe> lol 20:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: load a tram grf 20:20:57 <dihedral> just thought i'd have a little peek at one of the nightleys 20:21:02 <dihedral> ah 20:21:06 <dihedral> makes sense 20:21:07 <guru3> well i'm glad someone looks at the irc stats everynow and then 20:21:15 <guru3> i'll just quietly fade into the backgrond again now 20:21:17 * guru3 fades 20:21:25 <moe> btw ther is a narrow gauge somewhere on grftracker 20:21:29 <dihedral> neatly done guru3 20:21:33 <moe> its fot ttd and ottd 20:21:37 <moe> *for 20:22:13 <Bjarni> Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 291 times! 20:22:13 <Bjarni> Another lonely one was CIA-1, who managed to hit 221 times. 20:22:18 <Bjarni> CIA is lonely :D 20:22:38 <guru3> for some reason i forgot to escape cia 1, 2, and 13 20:22:39 <hylje> ailure just punctuates with return 20:22:44 <guru3> that'll be fixed on the next update 20:22:46 * guru3 fades again 20:22:55 <Rubidium> CIA is still learning; speak after me: "...." ;) 20:24:20 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:30:50 <peter1138> yay, simutrans 20:31:46 <peter1138> yay, all my towns start off huge 20:33:17 * Wolf01 is sad :( 20:34:40 <Bjarni> why? 20:34:52 <Bjarni> wanna play OpenTTD 0.9.1? 20:34:54 <Wolf01> because i can't fix the bug 20:42:46 *** OwenS [~kvirc@5ac0cdcd.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:43:09 <Bjarni> bbl later. Power died :( 20:43:12 *** De_Ghosty [De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 20:43:23 * Bjarni is once again happy for his UPS 20:43:26 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x535ca25f.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:44 <De_Ghosty> bump max player to 16 please :) 20:44:38 *** Quit [~quit@132-202.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #openttd 20:46:09 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 20:51:39 *** HMage` [Queneex@89-178-105-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:09 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B78879.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:09 <Thomas[NL]> hmm trams turn around on top of road-construction-sites. 20:55:12 <Wolf01> i don't like trams turn-around too, i like more a turn-around in the center of the tiles 20:56:55 <Rubidium> Wolf01: not going to happen when you want to be newgrf compatible 20:57:57 <Sacro> http://www.videosift.com/video/Two-Trains-Hit-Head-On 20:57:59 *** Gorre [dik@ip-89-102-198-103.karneval.cz] has quit [] 20:59:04 <peter1138> saw the other day 20:59:18 <Sacro> darn 21:02:08 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57a1f220.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:00 <peter1138> no aftermath pictures :( 21:05:47 <stillunknown> Why doesn't vehicle have both next and prev pointers? 21:07:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10029 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r9923): trams should not/cannot turn on roadworks. 21:10:01 <Wolf01> they should go straight on the bulldozer or simply stop? 21:10:29 <Rubidium> stop 21:16:55 *** HMage [HMage@89-178-105-192.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:22:43 <De_Ghosty> they should run down the bulldozer 21:22:44 <De_Ghosty> :D 21:23:17 <Zuu> Nice thing with working with the hotkey-patch: learn all neat hotkeys I did not knew about.. :) 21:25:10 <Rubidium> yup, quite understandable 21:26:24 *** Quit [~quit@132-202.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [] 21:26:24 <Sacro> FUCK THEM AND THEIR LAW 21:26:34 * Sacro dances to the prodigy :D 21:26:39 <dihedral> Sacro: fuck the fucking fuckers 21:26:58 <peter1138> do do do de do do, do do do de do do, do do do do do do do do do do do de do do 21:27:37 <Sacro> breathe the pressure, come play my game i'll test you 21:29:47 <Thomas[NL]> How do you think about using signs as one-way road markers? 21:30:28 <Maedhros> i'd rather use them than the arrows, personally :) 21:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> i like the signs 21:31:36 * Sacro will brb 21:31:49 <Thomas[NL]> So it may get into trunk some time :)? 21:32:01 <Thomas[NL]> the coding 21:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no authority to decide that, unfortunately :p 21:33:18 <Maedhros> you can already change the arrows using action 5, so it shouldn't be too difficult to support signs instead 21:33:26 <Maedhros> s/instead/as well/ 21:35:02 <Thomas[NL]> ok great :) 21:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> you need some information to decide if it should be drawn on the road (arrow) or in front of the road (sign), for correct sprite sorting 21:35:23 <Maedhros> but now 'tis time for bed 21:35:30 <Maedhros> see you all in a week :) 21:35:42 <Thomas[NL]> good night 21:35:44 <Wolf01> bye 21:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't know if the newgrf spec is prepared for that 21:39:57 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-137-33-171.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:46:01 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Solong, and thanks for all the fish.] 21:47:37 <kaan> oh man, Danmark-Sverige footballmatch has gone all wrong 21:48:09 *** geoffk [~geoffk@host86-130-151-243.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't remember this being a football channel... 21:57:29 *** geoffk [~geoffk@host86-130-157-103.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:07:50 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:00 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@81-236-230-128-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:06 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 22:22:41 <Ailure> [22:14] <Eddi|zuHause3> Ailure talks to him/herself a lot. He/She wrote over 5 lines in a row 296 times! <- now that is impressive :p 22:22:43 <Ailure> :o 22:23:11 <Ailure> Heh, I have a tendancy to write severeal lines at once so i'm not really surprised. 22:24:11 <stillunknown> Let's improve that stats. 22:25:12 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@81-236-230-128-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:26:13 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:56 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has joined #openttd 22:38:31 <OwenS> Guys, have you never considered using C bitflags instead of the GB/SB/HASBIT macros you have now? 22:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> what do you mean? 22:43:35 <OwenS> C has bitflag support in structures 22:43:53 <OwenS> unsigned (char, etc) blah: 2, second: 1, third: 3, etc 22:44:00 <OwenS> Packs them all into a byte 22:44:06 *** Ben_1 [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has joined #openttd 22:44:19 <OwenS> It's little known, but surprisingly well supported 22:44:46 <Rubidium> it's considered, but never actually used (in trunk) 22:44:55 <Rubidium> branches/map uses it 22:45:00 <OwenS> Shame, it makes things so much neater 22:45:27 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-166-77.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:46:08 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:46:09 <Rubidium> is there a guarantee in which order those 'bits' are stored (as per C++ specifications)? 22:46:42 <OwenS> Theyre stored in order AFAIK. I know several small OS projects use them that way though, for processor structures 22:46:51 *** Apocalipsys [~Apocalips@190.156.92.125] has left #openttd [] 22:48:10 <Rubidium> but do they care about binary compatability between big and little endian? 22:49:09 <Rubidium> and moving bits around gets (probably) impossible 22:50:44 <Rubidium> like you swapped bits 0..1 with 2..3 in your blah, second, third example 22:52:13 *** Ben_1 [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:31 <OwenS> Dunno about endianness issues 22:52:32 <Rubidium> and using the same bits used in multiple tile types gets probably uglier too ( RT GetRailType(tile) { return IsTileType(tile, street) ? tile.street.rail_type : tile.rail.rail_type; } (also needs tunnels and bridges and stations) 22:52:39 <OwenS> Although that won't matter for bytes 22:53:09 <Rubidium> but not everything is bytesized 22:53:12 <OwenS> Use a union and multiple sets of bit flags? Have a tile.all.rail_type or something similar 22:53:14 <OwenS> Thats an issue 22:53:43 <OwenS> It stores them in the system native order. I'm assuming it does already and you swap them? 22:54:12 <Rubidium> that would "waste" four bits in everything that is not a level crossing, rail tunnel/bridge/station 22:54:33 <OwenS> tile.rail. then 22:55:07 <Rubidium> but then you have problems with stations (they are a different tile type) 22:55:18 <Rubidium> and even per tile type you've got differences 22:55:31 <OwenS> Hmm 22:55:33 <Rubidium> like for road tiles 22:55:47 <Rubidium> you've got "normal road", "level crossing" and "depot" 22:56:23 <Rubidium> in the case of "normal road" you need 4 bits for each roadtype, in the case of "level crossing" you only need 1 bit to give the direction of both the rail and all roadtypes 22:59:28 <Rubidium> and for "level crossings" you need to store 4 owners 23:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> road, tram, rail, what is the 4th? 23:02:11 <Rubidium> where the space that is used in "normal" roads fort the road owner, is the rail owner in a "level crossing" as it's way more important that the rail owner is always using the same bits than the road owner. This because road vehicles don't care about ownership, whereas train do care 23:02:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: a yet unspecified/unimplemented third roadtype 23:03:23 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 23:03:53 *** peterbrett [~peter@ptbb2b.girton.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:33 <stillunknown> Anyone who understands the "coordinate" system of the hash map? 23:04:38 <stillunknown> (vehicle hash map) 23:04:49 <Rubidium> I guess Chris does 23:07:58 <Rubidium> coordinate system? 23:09:50 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has joined #openttd 23:10:17 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:10:31 <Rubidium> I think it's in the "on screen" coordinate system; where it would be shown on the giant screenshot 23:10:37 <dihedral> question :-) 23:10:43 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C9F4.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:10:50 *** kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has left #openttd [] 23:10:53 <_Ben_> Bit late, but well done for getting to r10000. really great stuff. Thanks to all who are working on it 23:11:00 <dihedral> could the way a map is sent from server to client not be used to send grf files? 23:11:28 <dihedral> or is the map data send in some paticular way? 23:11:55 <TrueBrain> we need a FAQ.... 23:11:55 <OwenS> dihedral: I'm not an expert, but AFAIK all it does is send a save file? 23:12:04 <OwenS> (Someone else can answer better) 23:12:11 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you are correct 23:12:20 <TrueBrain> dihedral: grfs can not be send, because of copyright issues 23:12:39 <dihedral> i mean the new grf files... not the copyrighted ones 23:12:47 <TrueBrain> I mean the newgrf files 23:12:48 <TrueBrain> long blabla 23:12:51 <TrueBrain> that is why we need a FAQ :p 23:12:52 <Rubidium> those are copyrighted... 23:12:54 <OwenS> TrueBrain: The copyright issue wouldn't land with OpenTTD however, if it sent newgrfs. It would land with the server owner 23:12:58 <TrueBrain> that question comes around every.... 2 weeks now? 23:13:01 <dihedral> really? 23:13:03 <OwenS> They could turn it off if they wanted 23:13:44 <Rubidium> OwenS: the problem is that most NewGRF authors have an explicit license that states that you cannot redistribute the NewGRF 23:13:47 <dihedral> i did not know that those new grf files were copyrighted 23:14:03 <Touqen> dihedral: The person who draws them owns the copyright 23:14:21 <TrueBrain> okay, I made a boo-hoo, copyright was the wrong word, license is the correct one :) 23:14:23 <Rubidium> allowing to do so would violate the license and harm the OTTD community more than the "good" you would have from autodownload 23:14:27 <Touqen> Just like this sentence is copyrighted by me. :D 23:14:35 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:14:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host202-235-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:14:49 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: everything is copyrighted 23:14:58 <Touqen> Not everything. 23:15:06 <dihedral> yeah - i also meant licensed 23:15:09 <OwenS> I'd be surprised if anyone was that peed off about it sending automatically 23:15:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I just never get why they used such a license.... 23:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> the question is how far people will go to let copying occure anyway 23:15:41 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:16:09 <OwenS> Hmm, it seems that i've finished stage one of 3 of my project =) 23:16:10 <Touqen> Creative Commons! 23:16:21 <Touqen> Your project being? 23:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> Touqen: in germany, you cannot even voluntarily give away the copyright, you can just license it 23:16:49 <OwenS> Thats why I like BSD... 23:17:06 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause3: but one can just not care and there aint an issue then either 23:17:24 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: to quote PikkaBird: "...what I don't want is outdated versions of my grfs spread all over the internet, with people complaining to me about bugs that were fixed years ago, or asking silly questions about features which are explained on my website or wiki. Basically, it's a support-minimisation ploy, as well as quality control (making sure that when people go and download one of my grfs, they're getting the latest version)." 23:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: it does not matter what you care about, it's what the particular grf author care about 23:18:03 <Touqen> sounds reasonable to me 23:18:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what was the result about the talk of adding a flag that indicates if distribution is allowed? 23:18:30 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause3: "one" as in the author 23:18:40 <dihedral> :-) 23:18:45 <Rubidium> well, that "flag" would be violated within like 10 seconds from it being committed 23:19:05 <TrueBrain> true, but at least we did our best... 23:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: but it is not for you to decide wether they should care or not 23:19:43 <OwenS> =s 23:19:50 <OwenS> openttd now quits normally as soon as it starts 23:19:56 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause3: just saying that they have the option to not care :-P 23:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: but that has nothing to do with the distribution 23:20:58 <dihedral> how come one of these authers is able to say something is free and can be downloaded, just not redistributed 23:21:10 <OwenS> dihedral: License agreements 23:21:11 <dihedral> if something is free, it's free? 23:21:29 <TrueBrain> dihedral: besides Public Domain, nothing is really 'free' 23:21:33 <TrueBrain> just 'free of costs' 23:21:35 <TrueBrain> fee-less 23:21:50 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD isn't really 'free' either 23:22:01 <dihedral> i like gpl 23:22:04 <TrueBrain> if you make a modification and distribute the binary, you HAVE TO publish your source too 23:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is not about free, read the above statement, it is about reading readmes and version control and stuff 23:22:21 <dihedral> TrueBrain: aint anything wrong with that 23:22:47 <TrueBrain> dihedral: and I am not debating that :) 23:22:48 <dihedral> although i though it was 'make available upon request' 23:22:52 <OwenS> Thought about including libcurl and libunzip? =P So you can point the clients to download the GRFs from the author 23:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: there are enough people who violate the GPL 23:23:02 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it is a tiny bit stronger :) 23:23:25 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Actually, it does say make the source available on request (Legally without fail) 23:23:26 <dihedral> actually i did not want to start a legal discussion here 23:23:34 <Sacro> TrueBrain: there are several openttd related violations of the gpl 23:23:39 <TrueBrain> but okay, a license can disallow redistriution, where they allow the rest to be 'free' 23:23:52 <TrueBrain> Sacro: like? :) 23:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> it also says you have to give contact information to send the request to 23:24:00 <OwenS> Hmm.. Why the hell would it try to start up and not continue? =S 23:24:13 <Sacro> TrueBrain: UIQ3 port, GP2X port 23:24:32 <TrueBrain> Sacro: so someone should send them an email 23:24:36 <TrueBrain> we did with the PocketPC port 23:24:45 <Sacro> TrueBrain: yes... 23:24:46 <dihedral> what about encoding the grf files from the server in the map when sending the data to the client so available for that connection? 23:25:02 <Rubidium> dihedral: encoding in what manner? 23:25:06 <OwenS> It would still legally be illegal.. 23:25:12 <dihedral> wrong word again 23:25:25 <dihedral> but having the grf data available in the map file 23:25:34 <TrueBrain> dihedral: by the license, nothing and nobody is allowed to redistribute the grfs, in any form :) 23:25:45 <dihedral> i.e. grf is stored in the map 23:25:50 <TrueBrain> it is not like if you scan a book, you can freely distribute it 23:25:56 <TrueBrain> after all, you made it available in an other format (??) 23:25:58 <Rubidium> dihedral: means embedding the GRF in the map, which means you're redistributing it 23:26:04 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A52A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:26:16 <dihedral> k 23:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> just live with the fact that this feature will not be implemented 23:26:50 <OwenS> Guys, this is REALLY strange 23:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> it has been discussed many dozen times 23:27:01 <OwenS> OpenTTD is exiting before printing any messages, cleanly 23:27:12 <dihedral> how about sending the client the source url from where it can be downloaded and the client gets it from there automatically? 23:27:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: even with -dall=9? 23:27:26 <dihedral> redistributing the url in no way can be a legal issue 23:27:40 <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, not I have a tonne of output 23:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> dihedral: that's what grfcrawler is for 23:27:43 <TrueBrain> dihedral: see grfcrawler 23:28:04 <TrueBrain> besides, PikkaBird won't have older versions available, so if you want to join a server which has 23:28:05 <dihedral> sorry for blasting out so many questions :-S 23:28:07 <TrueBrain> you are fucked! 23:28:22 <TrueBrain> dihedral: write them down in a wiki page, so we can just point people to there next time :p 23:28:36 <dihedral> lol 23:28:40 <OwenS> Has the old PBS GRF been removed? :( 23:28:43 <TrueBrain> I am serious in fact 23:28:46 <OwenS> I was using it trmporarily 23:29:01 <dihedral> TrueBrain: i would not believe it was anything else 23:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> there was never a PBS grf 23:30:08 <TrueBrain> btw, did you guys know that GPLv2 states this: 23:30:09 <TrueBrain> a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices 23:30:09 <TrueBrain> stating that you changed the files and the date of any change. 23:30:12 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause3: I mean the one with the PBS signal in 23:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> the PBS signal pictures are still there 23:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> just they are not used 23:31:30 <OwenS> Oh good 23:31:32 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Does that include anything that is commited to svn? 23:31:47 <TrueBrain> Zuu: no, as we in fact own our own copyright to the code :) 23:31:49 <dihedral> well then 23:31:50 <Sacro> i would assume that svn can cover that.. 23:31:53 <dihedral> good night guys 23:31:59 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Phew :) 23:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> OwenS: the last build that had "working" PBS was the miniin 23:32:11 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't want PBS. I just want the graphic 23:32:11 <TrueBrain> and besides, SVN in fact does keep track of exactly that, but rather less explicit :) 23:32:12 <dihedral> and thanks for letting me bother you :-D 23:32:12 <OwenS> Can someone point me to two free signal bits? =) 23:32:21 <TrueBrain> but based on that rule, I think almost all patches and modifications out there violate GPLv2 :) 23:32:28 <TrueBrain> night dihedral 23:32:45 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-229-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 23:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i said, the graphics are still there 23:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> in nsignalsw.grf, or so 23:34:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: why? the patch files clearly contain all changes, and usually the files have a date of last change 23:34:48 <TrueBrain> _stating_ that _you_ changed the files and the _date_ of any change 23:34:58 <TrueBrain> patches miss the 'you' part and a 'date' of change :) 23:35:06 <OwenS> Are M2 bits 3 and 7 free? 23:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> sure, you can be overly pedantic :) 23:35:35 <Rubidium> see landscape.html and landscape_grid.html 23:36:04 <OwenS> I forgot M2 was a 16-bit number =P 23:36:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: it is what GPLv2 says :) 23:36:09 <OwenS> But, 3 and 7 are free =D 23:37:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:17 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.74.72] has left #openttd [Leaving] 23:43:59 <OwenS> Aah! It's a dedicated build 23:48:48 *** Zuu [~leif@c-0c3c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:55 <OwenS> Oh good, stage one of programmable signals complete =) 23:53:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F220.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:26 *** Osai [~Osai@pd9eb4120.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:50 * OwenS installs Lua 23:58:59 <Rubidium> lua? 23:59:02 <Rubidium> squirrel 23:59:07 <OwenS> Nah... Luas more common 23:59:18 <OwenS> And for how much codes involved, easy enough (They will look identical) 23:59:27 <OwenS> And Lua doesn't have the class overhead 23:59:42 <Rubidium> OwenS: look at the NoAI branch 23:59:44 <TrueBrain> you should install squirrel if you want this thing to ever hit trunk :) 23:59:49 <OwenS> Aah