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00:01:13 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-16.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:04:29 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:05:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77937.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:09:11 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B770AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:10:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10495 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Add the Action 00 property handlers for Industries and Industry tiles 00:11:03 <eekee> oooh o.o 00:12:58 <Belugas> no... it will not allow newindustries grf to be loaded... 00:13:07 <Belugas> that's just another brick in the wall 00:13:07 <Sacro> Belugas: and i was just about to test 00:13:15 <Belugas> altough a big one ^_^ 00:13:28 <Belugas> heheh 00:13:34 <Sacro> how much further? 00:13:59 <Belugas> still a lot, but with the help of Rubidium, that "lot" is getting "few" 00:14:09 <Belugas> he's doing an amazing job :D 00:14:18 <Sacro> he is good 00:14:30 <Sacro> can we keep him. can we! 00:15:44 <Belugas> :) 00:16:15 <Belugas> i'd say we should keep him for as long as he likes ;) 00:16:23 <Belugas> And i'm sure he likes it a lot :D 00:19:23 *** ja [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 00:25:23 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:26:41 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:03 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-29-141.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:58 *** strstrep [~strstrep@ip68-9-207-179.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 00:54:38 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-226-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:11 *** strstrep [~strstrep@ip68-9-207-179.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:59:17 <Belugas> ping: Sacro 00:59:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r10496 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs): 00:59:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Replace all the windows for Industry building by a more flexible one. 00:59:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks to Csaboka (from TTDPatch dev team) for his hints and original design 00:59:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: (which i've found while it was halfway done, so i could make it more compliant 00:59:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ;)). Don't expect it to be a carbon-copy though. A few differences can be 00:59:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: found here and there. 00:59:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks to Rubidium for his helping hand. Hope you will like it as we do :) 00:59:35 <Sacro> Belugas: pong 00:59:44 <Belugas> ou can test this one ;) 00:59:53 <Sacro> ooh? 00:59:58 <Belugas> without newinduistries... 01:00:10 <Sacro> oh :( 01:00:13 <Belugas> heheh 01:00:33 <Belugas> i'm sure you'll like it 01:00:42 <Belugas> even without ;) 01:00:44 <Sacro> versionpkg is doing its stuff 01:01:18 <Belugas> i'm going to do the washing of the dishes 01:01:20 <Belugas> have fun 01:01:28 <Sacro> whats new? 01:01:35 <Sacro> whoah 01:01:44 <Sacro> i've never seen all those newgrf_* files before 01:04:03 <Smoovious> which files? 01:04:12 <Sacro> newgrf_* 01:04:14 <Sacro> hmm 01:04:18 <Smoovious> ... 01:04:18 <Sacro> i don't see much difference 01:04:29 <Sacro> the build industry window is slightly alteredf 01:06:50 <NukeBuster> can i use floor() in openttd? 01:06:51 *** balli [~balli@dsl-149-96-155.hive.is] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:07:29 <NukeBuster> i was trying but ended up with: smallmap_gui.cpp:854: fout: 'floor' was not declared in this scope 01:07:48 <Sacro> did you declare it? 01:08:33 <NukeBuster> isn,t that done in math.h? 01:08:46 <Sacro> in C maybe... 01:08:54 <glx> math.h is not include AFAIK 01:09:02 <glx> *included 01:09:13 <Sacro> NukeBuster: #include <cmath> 01:09:27 <NukeBuster> ah ok... theirs my problem... 01:09:33 <NukeBuster> thanks. 01:10:39 <Belugas> [21:06] <Sacro> the build industry window is slightly alteredf <--- you call that slightly??? Completely redone, yes! 01:10:46 * Belugas sends glasses to Sacro 01:11:18 <Sacro> Belugas: i never really used it :( 01:16:41 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:19:27 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:20:40 *** welterde_ [~welterde@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has joined #openttd 01:20:40 *** welterde [~welterde@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:23:54 <NukeBuster> doxygen is still down? or did the address change? 01:25:32 *** JazzyJaffa [~ben@85-211-26-125.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:25:51 <Digitalfox> belugas, you last two commits are HUGE.. -so much new code :\ Nice work :) 01:28:21 <Belugas> thanks Digitalfox :) 01:28:35 <Belugas> Sacro, it's understandable , don't worry ;) 01:28:46 <Belugas> NukeBuster, what do you mean? 01:29:15 <Belugas> ho.... i see 01:29:23 <Belugas> indeed, it seems down 01:37:50 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 01:38:12 *** Nigel [~nigel@202.154.148.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:17 <glx> it is empty :/ 01:38:35 <Belugas> yeah 01:38:40 <Belugas> not down... 01:38:44 <Belugas> just empty 01:39:09 <glx> who stole the files??? 01:41:25 <Belugas> looks like it has not recompiled 01:42:09 <NukeBuster> hmm i notice it a few days ago... and it is certainly handy for looking up functions and classes... 01:47:40 <NukeBuster> anyway i'm off to bed... night 01:48:05 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has left #openttd [] 01:50:09 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:56:13 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:24 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 01:59:36 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:58 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:00:14 *** strstrep [~strstrep@ip68-9-207-179.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 02:02:21 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:12 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 02:11:16 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:12:57 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:40 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:21:46 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:04 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:34:14 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:40:20 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:57 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 02:43:19 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-169-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:49:38 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-179-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:49:59 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:50:31 *** welterde [~welterde@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has joined #openttd 02:52:21 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:22 *** welterde_ [~welterde@trujillo.srv.pocoo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:57:16 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 03:14:17 *** strstrep [~strstrep@ip68-9-207-179.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:19:35 <Smoovious> how long does it take for waypoint names to dissapear now? 03:19:44 <Smoovious> when b eing d estroyed 03:29:18 <benc_> 30 days 03:31:10 <Smoovious> ok 03:31:17 <Smoovious> that explains it 03:31:23 <Smoovious> I got days slowed way down 03:31:28 <Smoovious> :) 03:55:25 <benc_> is there an archive of pre-r1 source out there? 03:55:56 <benc_> always interesting to see how far an oss project has progressed 04:03:10 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-60-239.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 04:06:04 *** narth [~nano-tech@ppp121-45-27-10.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:11:09 *** DNazarov [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd 04:12:35 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:17 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-60-239.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:39:44 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 04:43:02 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:43:04 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C749.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:00:46 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB6A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:12:03 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:15:53 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 05:38:38 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB6A65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 05:47:22 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:28 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 05:47:55 *** Taikaponi [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 06:04:28 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:37 *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@195.39.113.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:07:58 *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@195.39.113.200] has joined #openttd 06:18:21 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 06:19:08 <peter1138> Sionide is a specs tsar :o 06:25:38 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:38 *** Taikaponi [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:01 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-148-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:28:53 <Smoovious> czar 06:29:54 <peter1138> both valid spellings 06:31:36 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-169-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:31:40 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 06:39:43 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #openttd 06:55:48 <ln-> http://worsethanfailure.com/Articles/Zero-Tolerance.aspx 06:56:58 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:58:39 <peter1138> :o 06:59:51 *** HMage [Queneex@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 07:10:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10497 /trunk/src/ship_gui.cpp: -Fix (FS#1013,r8464): Ship max speed wrongly shown (benc) 07:20:20 *** edeca [~david@beefy.two-pebbles.com] has left #openttd [] 07:22:13 *** benc_ [~benc_@va-71-53-204-176.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #openttd [] 07:33:06 *** lolman_ [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 07:33:06 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:18 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 07:47:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10498 /trunk/ (config.lib src/network/network.cpp): -Fix [FS#1008]: remove inconsistency between a warning and the actual behaviour. 07:50:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10499 /extra/website/ (server_detail.php servers.php): [Website] -Fix: escape the characters in the revision string. 07:52:24 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:54:40 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 07:56:53 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 08:09:30 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:27:01 <HMage> I love how MSVC reports STL errors: http://www.bdsoft.com/dist/vcmeta-demo.txt 08:27:47 <Noldo> templates make it so much interesting 08:30:47 <flex> fancy 08:31:58 <flex> as in msvc6 were you can get 1500 lines of warnings because your debugnames is more that 256 bytes long... 08:32:32 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8172D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:54 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B81B38.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:41:19 *** Kokunai [~Kokunai@cpe-76-183-37-106.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 08:43:34 *** Kokunai [~Kokunai@cpe-76-183-37-106.tx.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 08:49:30 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S010600e09103b7cd.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:33 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S010600e09103b7cd.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:30 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S010600e09103b7cd.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:44 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S01060016171edbe0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 08:58:56 <HMage> flex: I usually disable that warning, at least that's possible. 09:09:32 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 09:14:34 *** scia_ [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 09:16:22 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:24:17 *** scia_ [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:24:17 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S01060016171edbe0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:26 *** lolman__ [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:41:26 *** lolman_ [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:33 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S01060016171edbe0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:21 *** lolman__ [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:31 *** Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:46:07 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:46:20 <SmatZ> I cannot connect with rev10498M to rev10498 servers anymore, it makes problems with some testing :( how can I fake my revision in the easiest way? 09:47:01 <peter1138> you never could connect an M to a non-M 09:47:59 <Rubidium> SmatZ: vim objs/debug/rev.cpp 09:48:08 <Rubidium> or ./configure --revision=r10498 09:48:30 <ln-> peter1138: which is quite silly, because the M can be caused by something that doesn't affect on network play. 09:49:05 <peter1138> and so can r10497 to r10498 09:49:14 <ln-> naturally 09:49:20 <SmatZ> peter1138: I did test some patches on public server - maybe it was a long time ago, but I could connect 09:49:25 <SmatZ> Rubidium: thank you 09:50:50 <peter1138> so the rule is, and always will be, that the revision number should match exactly. 09:57:01 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:49 <Brianetta> Any developer (not just the dev team) who modifies the game has the responsibility to check network compatibility for themselves, and to build the correct version number if they are certain that it works. 10:05:59 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 10:16:30 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S01060016171edbe0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:23 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 10:40:00 <Sionide> peter1138...? 10:41:16 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@213.23.133.82] has joined #openttd 10:42:48 <skidd13> What has happend to docs.openttd.org? 10:46:20 <peter1138> it's b0rked 10:46:22 <peter1138> still 10:46:33 <skidd13> :( 10:48:23 <peter1138> Sionide, written proof 10:49:32 <skidd13> Where is the code to GetVehicle(...)? 10:49:41 <peter1138> it's in a macro 10:50:29 <skidd13> I ment which file. 10:51:20 <peter1138> oldpool.h 10:51:44 <peter1138> meant, btw. 10:51:52 <skidd13> thanks 10:54:50 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@213.23.133.82] has left #openttd [] 10:55:22 *** Gekko[PDA] [~gekko@S01060010a71a08fb.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 11:10:50 *** elmz [elmz@ti300710a080-3479.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 11:10:57 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.106.114] has joined #openttd 11:13:21 *** Gekkko [~brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:13:21 *** Gekkko is now known as Gekko 11:19:13 *** smoovi [~smoovi@dslb-088-073-074-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:18 *** Gekko [~brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:24 *** Nickman is now known as Nickman^Away 12:05:27 *** mikl [~mikl@gw.imtnet.dk] has joined #openttd 12:07:21 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:43 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 12:20:48 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:24:54 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 12:26:08 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D838.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:35 *** eekee [~ethan@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust540.brig.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Restarting terminal] 12:39:03 *** eekee [~ethan@cpc2-lanc4-0-0-cust540.brig.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:41:58 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-209-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:42:11 <dihedral> hello ladies :-) 12:42:30 <Sacro> hello dihedral ;) 12:42:44 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:01 *** JazzyJaffa [~ben@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:44:22 <eekee> lol 12:46:27 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:30 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:54:05 *** JazzyJaffa [~ben@fwnat-pub-1.physics.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:05 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-16.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:59 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:07:32 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1D4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:34 <Chris82> hola :) 13:08:16 <dihedral> heyhey Chris82 13:12:40 <eekee> \o 13:20:57 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has left #openttd [] 13:23:35 <Chris82> is there a cheat to give you lots of money for testing purposes? 13:23:36 <hylje> yes 13:24:32 <Chris82> and how do I use it? 13:24:44 <peter1138> ctrl-alt-c 13:24:50 <peter1138> same as all the other cheats 13:25:38 <Chris82> well I never used any cheats before :) 13:26:24 <Chris82> also I wanted to know how funding a bank works or if it works at all 13:26:38 <Chris82> whenever I try to fund a bank it tells me that the site is not suitable for a bank 13:28:07 *** Jezral [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 13:28:33 <Maedhros> you might have to attempt to build it on a house 13:28:42 <Maedhros> (although i just tried that and got an assert) 13:28:49 <peter1138> nice 13:31:11 <Chris82> well I have a 20k city here and more than enough money and literally tried to build it on any tile in or around the city 13:31:19 <Chris82> always tells me site unsuitable 13:31:24 <Chris82> building the other industries works fine 13:32:42 <dihedral> TrueBrain back yet? 13:34:56 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:51 <peter1138> depends what you want 13:42:26 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 13:54:13 <blathijs> peter1138: Was that an answer to dihedral's question? :-) 13:56:36 <peter1138> yes 13:58:32 <blathijs> :-) 14:00:59 <Belugas> dihedral, did you contacted CS's agency yet? 14:09:32 *** smoovi [~smoovi@dslb-088-073-074-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:32 <dihedral> Belugas: yes - sent them an email on Friday though i have not heard anything back from them yet 14:11:06 <dihedral> i shall give the 'guy' some time, just in case he aint at work or so... and perhaps give them another call next week 14:11:25 <blathijs> What are we asking CS? 14:11:53 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:08 <dihedral> trying to find out who to contact about the copyright 'n such 14:12:20 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:13:13 <Belugas> yeah, give it another approach, since Atari still does not answer.... 14:13:16 <blathijs> dihedral: Weren't we contacting someone high up at Atari or something? 14:13:32 <Belugas> good going, dihedral 14:13:41 <dihedral> we were until they decided not to respond... again 14:13:48 <dihedral> thx 14:19:45 *** Chris82 [~chris@p579E1D4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: studying] 14:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> we should just sue someone :) 14:20:15 <blathijs> dihedral: Too bad. Good to hear things do keep rolling, still :-) 14:21:24 <Belugas> dihedral : our legal expert to be ;) 14:23:26 <blathijs> :-) 14:25:21 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB7E78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:39 <dihedral> well well 14:25:56 <ln-> huh, what's going on? 14:26:03 <dihedral> i just spoke to the legal guy (named 'guy') of CS agency 14:26:33 <dihedral> who said that CS was very aware of all the various projects around TTD 14:26:38 <dihedral> and not too amused by them 14:26:56 <blathijs> dihedral: You called or something? 14:27:01 <dihedral> yep 14:27:28 <dihedral> numerous emails i sent using a certain web client never got sent... so i called 14:27:42 <dihedral> and sure enough he never got my email 14:28:18 <dihedral> and guess what 14:28:33 <dihedral> OpenTTD is one of the projects they dont like but are fully aware of 14:29:25 * narth looks arround for any supprised faces.... 14:29:28 <ln-> they = CS? 14:29:36 <dihedral> agency of CS = CS 14:29:42 <ln-> right 14:29:58 <dihedral> guy said that some of those projects get CS pretty upset 14:30:19 <blathijs> Did they ever say why? 14:30:26 <dihedral> yes 14:30:57 <dihedral> CS has a vision of what a game is supposed to be... and he aint chuffed when others come and play around with 'his vision' 14:31:27 <dihedral> and they are fully aware of the fact that some portion of reverse engeniering had to be done 14:31:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, he would be free to come here and take influence :) 14:31:40 <peter1138> that's the stock answer indeed 14:31:45 <Sacro> would we actually give him commit rights? 14:31:54 <dihedral> lol 14:32:08 <narth> lol 14:32:09 <Belugas> dihedral, did he said if OTTD was breaking CS's vision? 14:32:17 <dihedral> no 14:32:26 <dihedral> he never stated anything THAT directly 14:32:34 <Belugas> so he did not gave any names 14:32:37 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 14:33:00 <dihedral> he was not so happy when openttd was mentioned... or ttdpatch 14:33:07 <Eddi|zuHause> he might very well mean the DBSet breaking he vision of the game being based on british trains :p 14:33:13 <Sacro> hehe 14:33:15 <Belugas> what else did you discussed? 14:33:23 <Sacro> does he give UKRS his stamp of approval 14:33:25 <Belugas> please, guys, stop the jokes... 14:33:33 <Belugas> this is srious stuff 14:33:51 <Belugas> dihedral, go on 14:33:53 <dihedral> he said i should stay away from any projects :-P 14:34:30 <dihedral> that CS/the agency would take legal actions if they thought it was fit to 14:34:52 <Belugas> did he leave any room of discussions? 14:34:58 <dihedral> i.e. if they found ottd breaching any of their client contracts 14:35:08 <dihedral> he was very friendly Belugas 14:35:16 <dihedral> most gratefull that i even called to ask 14:35:40 <Belugas> so he's open minded, ne would say? 14:35:42 <dihedral> but clearly stated that no way would CS release source code 14:35:53 <Sacro> he doesn't need to 14:35:53 <Belugas> nobody asked for that 14:36:12 <dihedral> i never asked for that either 14:36:14 <Gekko[PDA]> who's CS? 14:36:15 <ln-> besides the source code is asm 14:36:29 * glx slaps Gekko[PDA] 14:36:29 <Sacro> Gekko[PDA]: Chris Sawyer 14:36:29 <ln-> Gekko[PDA]: some guy who wrote some game back in the 90's 14:36:30 <Gekko[PDA]> oh 14:36:34 <Sacro> /me slaps Gekko[PDA] too 14:36:36 <Gekko[PDA]> i know 14:36:46 <Gekko[PDA]> ddnt realise the acronym? 14:36:49 <Gekko[PDA]> . 14:37:01 <Belugas> dihedral, did you planed for another meeting? 14:37:11 <Sacro> Belugas: s/did/have/ 14:37:18 <dihedral> if i have more questions i would call again :-) 14:37:42 <Sacro> dihedral: did you speak to him? 14:37:42 <dihedral> perhaps in 20 minutes? j/k 14:37:50 <dihedral> i spoke to Guy 14:38:03 <dihedral> the legal person of marjacq 14:38:03 <ln-> dihedral: so did you find out who is the copyright owner? 14:38:12 <Sacro> ln-: i don't think anybody knows that 14:38:14 <Belugas> that's a good quetin :) 14:38:18 <dihedral> Atari is 14:38:53 <dihedral> though atari or any body else never had enough license rights to make ttd free 14:38:57 <Sacro> zomg, Microprose got bought by Spectrum Holobyte 14:39:00 <Belugas> back to square one 14:39:09 <dihedral> nope 14:39:13 <Belugas> ho? 14:39:26 <dihedral> Belugas: marjacq / CS have the rights to release source or make freeware 14:39:45 <ln-> but not the graphics and sounds? 14:39:49 <Belugas> ok 14:40:00 <dihedral> and i mentioned that game data is not distributed with ottd 14:40:02 <Sacro> ln-: Simon B... something owns the music 14:40:09 <ln-> Sacro: i doubt that. 14:40:10 <peter1138> who cares about graphics and sound? that's on your TTD CD 14:40:15 <Gekko[PDA]> give him and as case of beer for it: 14:40:20 <dihedral> but he said that ottd must have done some reverse engeniering which is illegal 14:40:42 <peter1138> so does ttdpatch :) 14:40:43 <Gekko[PDA]> he has no proof 14:40:47 <ln-> peter1138: tell me where to buy one, so i won't need to play without graphics and sounds anymore. 14:40:48 <dihedral> Gekko[PDA]: just shove an old sock down your throat 14:40:48 <Gekko[PDA]> >.> 14:40:55 <Sacro> Gekko[PDA]: its on the wikipedia 14:40:58 <Gekko[PDA]> never. 14:41:09 <Belugas> dihedral : suggestion ask him what would they consider a way to repay for that 14:41:11 <Gekko[PDA]> Sacro: everyone can edit wikilpedia 14:41:12 <Belugas> if ever 14:41:18 <peter1138> repay, heh 14:41:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's on wikipedia, it must be true :p 14:41:25 <Belugas> well... 14:41:28 <ln-> Gekko[PDA]: ludde himself has said he has done reverse engineering. 14:41:36 <Belugas> lack of a better term... 14:41:39 <peter1138> ludde himself wasn't going to release it 14:41:43 <peter1138> it's all orudge's fault 14:41:46 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]] 14:41:53 <ln-> let's kick orudge then!1 14:41:55 <Gekko[PDA]> lol 14:42:10 <dihedral> he said we should write our own game 14:42:30 <dihedral> i already asked for his advice on what could be done 14:42:31 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 14:42:34 *** Digitalfox is now known as Digitalfox_Desktop 14:42:39 <ln-> that would have been a good idea... 14:43:01 <Sacro> but we have all seen the code 14:43:06 <Sacro> we'd need a white box team 14:43:17 <dihedral> Sacro: you would not 14:43:26 <Belugas> that's the only thing he said? 14:43:34 <Sacro> mmm 14:43:36 <orudge> Kicking me? How rude. 14:43:38 * Sacro pops out for a sandwich 14:43:58 <Gekko[PDA]> what can he do 14:44:02 <dihedral> Belugas: yes 14:44:17 *** De_Ghost [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:44:17 <Gekko[PDA]> "cease and desist bitches" 14:44:37 <dihedral> Gekko[PDA]: for starters you could shut up 14:44:42 <Gekko[PDA]> lol 14:44:49 * dihedral is not kidding 14:44:53 <Gekko[PDA]> lol 14:44:55 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*gekko@*.ed.shawcable.net] by peter1138 14:44:55 *** Gekko[PDA] was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [yes, shut up] 14:45:07 <ln-> it somehow keeps amazing me that in addition to cloning the functionality of TTD, ludde also cloned almost all the limitations of TTD. 14:45:33 <dihedral> very bad question + very bad though 14:45:36 <dihedral> : 14:45:55 <dihedral> could all you guys knowledge be bundled into a 'new' game? 14:46:00 <blathijs> 16:40 < dihedral> but he said that ottd must have done some reverse engeniering which is illegal <-- The idea was that it isn't, at least not where Ludde comes from 14:46:29 <blathijs> though IANAL 14:46:35 <dihedral> blathijs: world wide legal stuff 14:47:12 <ln-> peter1138: well done 14:47:31 <dihedral> How much effort would it be to write a complete new engine for the game? 14:47:44 <blathijs> We are probably doing that already 14:47:45 <blathijs> bit by bit 14:48:02 <narth> at a guess, based ont he roadmap on the wiki... about all the work between now and ver1.0? 14:48:19 <Belugas> immense, if asked from scratch. ONly the network part, the pathfinding could be reused, i think 14:48:29 <dihedral> completely getting away from the look & feel of ttd 14:48:45 <De_Ghost> yes network overhaul!! 14:48:46 <Belugas> even harder, we would need to desing a new look and feel 14:48:48 <orudge> Well, in that case, we may as well go and work on Transport Empire and abandon OpenTTD, I guess 14:48:49 <peter1138> depends. might not be possible using existing code, as it's tainted. 14:49:00 <De_Ghost> yes new graphic 14:49:05 <De_Ghost> no more cpu rendering!! 14:49:06 <dihedral> orudge: no 14:49:07 <orudge> to be free of legal issues regarding OpenTTD code 14:49:14 <orudge> well 14:49:31 <dihedral> work on a new'ish thing 14:49:32 <orudge> I guess it depends on how much one views our current code as being a derivative of the original reverse engineering 14:49:33 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I'm not a lawyer, but if the graphics and sound are not part of openttd, because you still have to get them from original game ( so you still need to have the a legal copy ), and the code is so much changed from original "reverse engeniering", shouldn't this discussion been over.. Besides theres no money coming from openttd, it's open source... 14:49:34 <orudge> and so on 14:49:38 <dihedral> then dump current ottd stuff 14:49:42 <dihedral> then rename... 14:49:43 <dihedral> slighly 14:49:56 <De_Ghost> graphic can't umm 14:49:57 <orudge> it's still based "originally" on the code though, which tends to be the problem 14:49:58 <De_Ghost> what u call 14:49:59 <De_Ghost> owned 14:50:00 <orudge> from what I'm aware of. 14:50:04 <orudge> *as far as I'm aware 14:50:06 <peter1138> Digitalfox_Desktop: money has not a lot to do with copyright 14:50:22 <ln-> Digitalfox_Desktop: how much do you need to change OTTD code in order to avoid redistributing it under GPL? 14:50:41 <dihedral> Digitalfox_Desktop: by the looks of it CS is pretty unhappy - at least enough to have his agency go lecally 14:50:41 <peter1138> exactly 14:51:28 <Digitalfox_Desktop> dihedral: he is? But do you think a lawsuit could happen? 14:52:05 <dihedral> guy said "there are only so many procecutions that can take place in one year" 14:52:21 <orudge> the other question would be: lawsuits against who, exactly? 14:52:37 <dihedral> orudge: for one you as being the host 14:52:44 <orudge> well, I figured that 14:52:46 <orudge> but who else? :P 14:52:47 <dihedral> :-P 14:52:56 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Does CS still have the copyright over TTO/TTD or is it microprose that is now is Atari part or something like that? 14:52:57 <dihedral> not me - i am the 'good' guy :-D 14:53:00 <orudge> ie, OpenTTD has had many contributors over the years 14:53:19 <orudge> Ludde has apparently made a bob or two from his selling of uTorrent, maybe he can provide us with a legal fund ¬_¬ 14:53:21 <ln-> if someone had just created a new game from scratch, *inspired* by TTD, with free graphics, it could still be very popular and none of these discussions would be necessary... but well, too late. 14:53:23 <dihedral> orudge: you would start with the one doing revers engeniering 14:53:28 <alex_> reverse enginnering is huge in todays business 14:53:31 <orudge> Indeed 14:53:33 <alex_> just look at AMD on intel 14:53:53 <orudge> ln-: people tried doing that several times 14:53:55 <Maedhros> i really doubt that's reverse engineering 14:53:57 <orudge> none of the projects got very far 14:53:58 <peter1138> nobody's doing reverse engineering on ottd anymore 14:54:04 <peter1138> (if they ever did, heh) 14:54:16 <alex_> Maedhros, in the '80's it was 14:54:23 <peter1138> dihedral: did you mention ttdpatch at all? 14:54:25 <Maedhros> ah, well ;) 14:54:25 <orudge> People don't really want a game that plays "like" TTD, they want a game that -is- TTD 14:54:27 <orudge> or so it seems. 14:54:31 <dihedral> yes 14:54:53 <dihedral> though openttd seemd to bring a slighly nastier reaction on the other end of the phone 14:54:55 <dihedral> :-) 14:54:55 <ln-> orudge: and the fact that those attempts failed in a way proves that the code taken from TTD was and still is essential to OTTD. 14:55:04 <dihedral> nasty question to all of you 14:55:06 <De_Ghost> when is the road and tram super tool coming 14:55:18 <De_Ghost> the one that the rail ahave 14:55:25 <dihedral> what would you guys be prepared to give up to continue work on a great game 14:55:27 <De_Ghost> where you can lay muti direction with 1 tool 14:55:45 <De_Ghost> nothing? why do they have to give up anything 14:55:48 <De_Ghost> it's a hobby 14:55:49 <De_Ghost> lol 14:56:14 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I don't know, but i feel a lawsuit won't happen.. It's a game with 13 years, even before windows 95 was on the stores... But since CS is suing Atari for some money on Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 he feels is his money, don't know.. 14:56:50 <Maedhros> dihedral: what sort of thing are you thinking with regard to giving up? 14:56:56 <dihedral> Digitalfox_Desktop: appart from the lawsuit stuff - just to get CS and marjacq happy 14:56:57 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Suing for a game with 13 years would be a historic thing in video games 14:57:11 <orudge> Well, the thing is with that, Digitalfox_Desktop - with RCT, Atari do owe him money, and Atari do have money 14:57:13 <Digitalfox_Desktop> dihedral: yeah :) 14:57:17 <orudge> and are much easier to "target" 14:57:32 <orudge> a bunch of open source developers scattered across the world are somewhat harder to track down 14:57:38 <orudge> and probably have a lot less to "give" 14:57:40 <dihedral> Maedhros: dumping ottd code and starting from scratch 14:58:02 <Maedhros> to be honest, i wouldn't be completely averse to it 14:58:16 <ln-> we should remember that if they choose to sue someone, that "someone" could be e.g. any one of the devs. i don't think it is necessary to sue the one who started the whole thing, or has been in lead, why couldn't they just pick someone. 14:58:37 <Maedhros> but would any of us be able to do anything like that without someone being able to claim it's based in part on openttd? 14:58:38 <dihedral> orudge: stoping progress on any ttd development (let it pe ~Patch or Open~) 14:58:43 <dihedral> that is all they would want 14:59:51 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But my question is, if things like newindustries in openttd have new code, that have nothing to do with the way ttd was coded, and some much things have a different implementation and design on code, what comparisons could be made besides GUI?? Is there a way to check code for duplication? 15:00:03 <orudge> well 15:00:12 <Maedhros> newindustries uses parts of the original code 15:00:12 <Digitalfox_Desktop> And the code language is also differnt 15:00:17 <Maedhros> and is thus based on ttd 15:00:18 <dihedral> Digitalfox_Desktop: it's changing CS's 'vision' 15:00:35 <orudge> I guess it's partially made more difficult by the fact we don't have the first ~1000 SVN revisions or so, although archives of v0.1 etc are still available - which I believe still contain the original IDA scripts used to help in the disassembly 15:00:50 <Digitalfox_Desktop> hum.. ok.. 15:01:05 <orudge> and various older routines do look fairly obviously copied when compared to the TTD originals 15:01:16 <dihedral> dumping all releases and releasing /trunk with own graphics would be a start 15:01:18 <orudge> (something Oskar noticed when he first looked through the code, hence his not wanting to get involved) 15:01:22 <Maedhros> what, like the unkxx variables? ;) 15:01:45 <Belugas> and the numerous goto statememts 15:02:23 <Maedhros> dihedral: but would that be enough? we don't distribute the graphics anyway 15:02:24 <orudge> The thing is, of course, we don't know that a lawsuit is coming. It's "possible", but if so, why hasn't it happened already? If OpenTTD were to start charging or something for use, that may be a different story. 15:02:38 <orudge> hmm 15:02:51 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But would it be possible besides the tremendous work, to in c(++) recreate openttd with new code and still looking like ttd?? 15:02:52 <Maedhros> *cough* esoftinteractive *cough* 15:03:09 <orudge> Well, they're not related to us, as such 15:03:11 <Belugas> well... now, they know we know thier position 15:03:13 <dihedral> orudge: guy said that if he found one of the projects imposing on one of their clients contracts... then 15:03:21 <orudge> Hmm. 15:03:24 <Maedhros> which clients, and what contracts? 15:03:41 <dihedral> Belugas: they know i know their position 15:03:57 <Belugas> do they know you are our speaker on this case? 15:03:58 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: it'd be possible, but officially, you'd likely want it to be written by developers who have no knowledge of the OpenTTD source 15:03:59 <ln-> orudge: if it honestly is about 'vision', then originally OTTD was not far away from the vision, but is getting farther away, and may reach the limit of tolerance.. 15:04:05 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A66DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:06 <orudge> for fear of reintroducing "stolen code" as it were 15:04:21 <orudge> eg, look at ReactOS and allegations of use of reverse engineered/stolen Microsoft code 15:04:31 <orudge> and the fact they then had to perform a complete source audit and suchlike 15:04:43 <dihedral> i personally would be pretty happy if i could give those guys another call and be able to tell them that ottd was going to put effort into writing something of their own 15:04:44 <De_Ghost> you know what 15:04:48 <De_Ghost> everything is patented 15:04:55 <De_Ghost> you know how company avoid lawsuit 15:05:04 <De_Ghost> they tell their engineer not to look at patents 15:05:18 <De_Ghost> because if you are looking 15:05:22 <Maedhros> that's not a solution 15:05:30 <ln-> don't mess patents with this discussion. 15:05:30 <De_Ghost> every tech u have is a patent infrigment 15:05:38 <dihedral> Maedhros: you mean me or De_Ghost 15:05:38 <De_Ghost> and the patent offce is a mess 15:05:45 <Belugas> dihedral, personnaly, i would say this would be the last step. I would rather see if there is anything that can be done in between NOTHING and SCRAP it all 15:05:47 <Maedhros> dihedral: i meant De_Ghost, sorry :) 15:05:51 <ln-> De_Ghost: this whole thing has nothing to do with patents. 15:06:02 <De_Ghost> ehhh 15:06:09 <De_Ghost> i only read soemthing about that 15:06:11 <De_Ghost> lalwalwl 15:06:19 <dihedral> De_Ghost: have another game of 0.5.3-RC2 15:06:22 <De_Ghost> what is happening? 15:06:23 <dihedral> :-) 15:06:28 <De_Ghost> :D 15:06:33 <dihedral> and enjoy the game 15:06:39 <De_Ghost> someone is sueing openttd? 15:06:40 <dihedral> deeeep down 15:06:53 <dihedral> breath in the sand in a desert game 15:06:59 <dihedral> let it make you cough 15:06:59 <orudge> De_Ghost: not as such. 15:07:04 <orudge> but potentially it may happen 15:07:07 <orudge> as people have basically known all the time 15:07:11 <dihedral> Belugas: what is 'between' 15:07:25 <De_Ghost> ahhh whoes gonna sue u 15:07:29 <ln-> could someone kick De_Ghost, please, because he seems to be lost but eager to talk. 15:07:35 <De_Ghost> ttd is not even worth anything 15:07:36 <Belugas> don't know yet. But i think it would be up to them to tell. 15:07:45 <Belugas> Some form of recognition... 15:07:47 <Belugas> anything 15:07:50 <Belugas> like.. 15:07:51 <dihedral> Belugas: i could call briefly again 15:07:51 <skidd13> Here in germany it is allowed to reverse engenieer software if this is needed to be able for correct usage of the software. But only if the original author does not provide support for the problem. So you have no problem with OpenTTD in Germany. 15:08:05 <dihedral> skidd13: NOT TRUE 15:08:07 <orudge> skidd13: hmm, Oskar doesn't appear to agree with that 15:08:23 <orudge> Oskar doesn't want to be involved with OpenTTD in any way due to the strictness of German copyright laws, apparently 15:08:25 <Belugas> we've worked on the project for so long, there is such a big followup, it would be a shame to let it go completely 15:08:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 15:08:43 <dihedral> Belugas: migrating would let others follow 15:08:46 *** mikl [~mikl@gw.imtnet.dk] has quit [Quit: ...in the end, all that matters is your relation with God.] 15:09:14 <dihedral> letting OpenTTD live until a new playable something is there 15:09:22 <Belugas> basically, it is false. People do not follow devs, they follow an environnement 15:09:32 <dihedral> the biggest thing in my eyes would be that you guys do the development together 15:09:36 <ln-> may I remind about one thing that is most certainly copyrighted material and is distributed with OTTD; all the text strings. 15:09:49 <dihedral> with all knowledge you have been able to gather in the progress of OpenTTD 15:09:55 <skidd13> dihedral: check the UrHG. Cause software is protected by the UrHG! 15:10:42 <dihedral> skidd13: i live in germany and i have had issues with companies before 15:11:22 <skidd13> Algorithms are treated diffrent! 15:11:24 <dihedral> there is a reason why 'closed source' is 'closed' and why penalties are so high 15:12:27 <dihedral> ottd is a release of somthing that nobody here ever owned 15:12:49 <dihedral> i personally can understand if CS frowns upon it 15:13:36 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:13:45 <dihedral> Belugas: if www.openttd.org became a redirect to something new - they would follow 15:14:14 <dihedral> if they were introduced with forum entries and ottd news entries to the topics 15:14:51 <dihedral> 'new' in this case does not mean 'different game style' 15:15:00 <ln-> what would you people say if CS took OTTD source, modified it and released a multi-platform commercial game? 15:15:08 <dihedral> just means 'your game, your code' 15:15:21 <ln-> dihedral: (yeah, i personally agree) 15:15:25 <dihedral> and a happy CS 15:15:53 <alex_> soooooooooooo 15:15:56 <dihedral> ^ sung in the melody of 'we wish you a merry x-mas'... 'and a happy new year' 15:15:57 <alex_> openttd being sued? 15:16:07 <dihedral> nope 15:16:10 <alex_> why not? 15:16:15 <alex_> microsoft sues all 15:16:18 <dihedral> why should they 15:16:50 <alex_> cause, its microsoft 15:16:54 <alex_> :) 15:17:01 <dihedral> Belugas: what if i gave marjacq a call saying that you guys are aware of the call i made and thinking of what the way forward could be? 15:17:18 <orudge> I would suggest probably best not to, personally. 15:17:23 <orudge> in that, well 15:17:25 <dihedral> that would make them happy and would attleast move their attention away 15:17:53 <peter1138> there was no attention before you stuck your nose in :p 15:17:59 <orudge> I guess we don't want to "incriminate" outselves in a way by admitting stuff. Also, perhaps best to figure out what we actually want to do :P 15:18:05 <dihedral> peter1138: wrong 15:18:12 <orudge> we didn't know of it, so it didn't exist ¬_¬ 15:18:21 <dihedral> guy was well aware of ottd when i spoke to him 15:19:19 <blathijs> Bah, gotta go. Will have to read back for the rest of this discussion later :-) 15:19:27 <dihedral> cu 15:19:54 <blathijs> dihedral: On the subject of calling them again, I don't think it will ever be a viable option to create a "Clean OpenTTD" or something like that 15:20:37 <dihedral> sure it would not be a OpenTTD 15:20:46 <blathijs> dihedral: So, it's probably not any good suggesting anything like that 15:20:51 <dihedral> but it none the less could remain a transport something 15:20:54 <peter1138> you can always go play simutrans... 15:21:01 <peter1138> that's OS now 15:21:09 <peter1138> or at least, the source is available 15:21:23 <alex_> peter1138, make the server browser window bigger please :) 15:21:26 <dihedral> how similar is simutrans? 15:21:30 <alex_> when you click on find servers 15:21:33 <peter1138> alex_: shut up 15:21:33 <alex_> all the names are cramped 15:21:54 <dihedral> because taking their code and making /trunk like like it derived from simutrans would be an idea :-P 15:21:56 <alex_> peter1138, not possible? 15:22:15 <Maedhros> alex_: possible, but completely irrelevant to the current discussion 15:22:18 <dihedral> *look like 15:23:01 <alex_> Maedhros, oh the conversation that i dont care about? :) 15:23:12 <alex_> sorry. 15:23:12 <ln-> simutrans doesn't advertise being open source, just says freeware. 15:23:19 <narth> alex_: post it as a feature to bugs.openttd.org 15:23:24 <orudge> alex_: also, demanding that someone do something probably isn't the best way of getting it done :> 15:23:41 <Rubidium> it's the best way to NOT get it done ;) 15:23:46 <alex_> true, i apologize peter1138 15:24:05 <alex_> and narth, and orudge, and Maedhros 15:24:33 *** narth is now known as narthollis 15:26:08 <dihedral> any thoughts sprouting or are you guys in some dev discussion elsewhere? 15:26:43 <De_Ghost> %password 15:26:50 <De_Ghost> oops wrong windo 15:27:25 <SpComb> dihedral: out of interest - are you actually a lawyer? 15:27:35 <dihedral> nope 15:27:36 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A66DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:27:45 *** skidd14 [~skidd13@p548A67AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:49 <skidd14> I worked a bit on Zojj's performance meter patch. Suggestions or comments to it's code? -> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31794&start=23 15:28:00 *** skidd14 is now known as Skidd13 15:32:03 <De_Ghost> performance meter? 15:33:48 <Skidd13> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31794&start=13 15:34:16 <SmatZ> it looks nice :) 15:36:13 <Skidd13> SmatZ: Since you are one of those mad ;) optimisation guy's are 10 seconds timed measurement enought? 15:36:31 <Skidd13> enought -> enough 15:37:39 * Sacro returns 15:37:47 <Belugas> so the question is : what should be done now 15:37:47 <SmatZ> Skidd13: every percent counts :) 15:37:49 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Jesus... Skidd13 that topic has dates all mixed in replys.. 15:38:22 <Belugas> go forward ignoring the risks, close the shop, start from scratch or find an agreement 15:38:23 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:38 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Skidd13: My firefox is going crazy 15:39:09 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-60-239.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 15:39:33 <orudge> Belugas: I would probably suggest A) - so much work has been put in that B) would seem rather a shame. C) would end up dying like the other projects and D) would be nigh on impossible. Of course, if a lawsuit then comes along in a year or two, B) may begin to look attractive. 15:40:38 <Skidd13> Digitalfox_Desktop: Not here but I've also problems with the I-NET connetion here ATM... Time to reconnect the router... BRB 15:40:45 *** Skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A67AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 15:40:52 <De_Ghost> new engin!!!! 15:40:59 <De_Ghost> no more cpu graphic!!1 15:41:11 <De_Ghost> death to spirites!! 15:41:22 <Belugas> so, dihedral, let say you don't callback right now, let us think about it. 15:41:33 <dihedral> Belugas: sure :-) 15:41:36 <ln-> hmm, do you think distributing the graphics with OTTD would really affect the probability of a lawsuit? 15:41:53 <Digitalfox_Desktop> IF and again IF a lawsuit could be made against openttd, wouldn't it go to ludde? Since he started it ? 15:42:03 <dihedral> ln-: the fact that CS aint happy and marjacq know openttd is enough 15:42:12 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*De_Ghost@*.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by peter1138 15:42:12 *** De_Ghost was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [slipped] 15:42:16 <dihedral> that 'guy' guy was pretty bright 15:42:56 <orudge> [16:41:37] <ln-> hmm, do you think distributing the graphics with OTTD would really affect the probability of a lawsuit? <-- I imagine it might 15:43:02 <Sacro> who is marjacq? 15:43:07 <orudge> Sacro: Chris Sawyer's agency 15:43:12 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:13 <dihedral> it sounded like these projects were topic over at marjacq more than once 15:43:38 <Sacro> well perhaps someone should arrange a meeting of one or two of our devs, and one or two of their guys 15:44:15 <dihedral> Sacro: i think that could end up badly 15:44:50 <orudge> Indeed 15:44:51 <ln-> no sleep and all TTD multiplayer? 15:44:53 <Sacro> dihedral: yes, but surely if its gonna kick off, then rather sooner than later 15:44:58 <orudge> Sacro: well 15:45:07 <orudge> I would think it's better we don't do anything (more) to incriminate ourselves 15:45:19 <orudge> such as going up to them and admitting "yeah, it's reversed engineered, what do you want to do about it?" 15:45:29 <orudge> if they decide to follow through in the future, then, well, that will have to be dealt with 15:45:44 <SmatZ> skidd13: the 'Current ticks' I get 30-220 ticks/s, Average is 24.0 15:45:49 <orudge> as long as we don't do anything stupid such as include the graphics with the game, or whatever, then it's quite possible they may let things go 15:45:55 <orudge> it's a risk, perhaps 15:46:00 <SpComb> have there been some recent developments in terms of OpenTTD's legal status that I've missed out on? I'm sure CS has been aware of OpenTTD and such for ages (he commented on it in an interview once), and not really expressed any gratitude 15:46:02 <orudge> but the other alternative appears to be to abandon OpenTTD completely 15:46:11 <ln-> orudge: the text strings of the original game are included in OpenTTD. 15:46:18 <orudge> ln-: as you mentioned earlier, indeed 15:46:43 <Biff> hmm, 0.5.2 gets a failed assertion 15:47:07 <skidd13> SmatZ: Average is the overall value. 15:47:11 <orudge> SpComb: not that I'm aware of 15:47:18 <SmatZ> skidd13: the About row is not displayed under the '?' button 15:47:22 <orudge> Chris Sawyer has never publically expressed an opinion on OpenTTD 15:47:34 <orudge> today's information is what we've found out now via Marjacq 15:48:52 <dihedral> just imagine following for me: 15:48:59 <skidd13> SmatZ: Oh... I'll look where I've missed to raise the index. 15:49:17 <dihedral> openttd halts, devs appologize to marjacq and CS and build a game of their own 15:49:54 <dihedral> explaining that imposing on CS's vision to the game was never ment to be 'distorted' 15:50:05 <orudge> is that following a lawsuit, or as a hypothetical "immediate" thing? 15:50:25 <dihedral> orudge: before lawsuite, not immediate :-D 15:51:13 <dihedral> perhaps an imediate appology and informing of planned actions would give more time 15:51:48 <alex_> or anyone from the openttd community could call marjacq and talk to them about it :) 15:51:50 <orudge> The thing is, Marjacq/CS haven't officially contacted us saying they're not happy. They say a lawsuit may be a possibility in the future. But they haven't said "we want you to stop" or anything, they say that Chris Sawyer isn't "amused" by it 15:52:00 <dihedral> alex_: i have 15:52:23 <dihedral> amused was my word 15:52:30 <orudge> What was it he said on the phone, then? 15:52:33 *** MarkSlap [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:49 <dihedral> rather ennoyed 15:53:05 <dihedral> something along that line 15:53:20 <orudge> maybe it's just me, but it seems like an awful shame to throw away all this work. We've known since day 1 that there may be legal ramifications - dig up the old discussions on the forum. My personal inclination would be to carry on as we have, until someone actually tells us to stop, or something else happens (eg, Zernebok takes over the world and makes a hostile takeover of Marjacq/CS Software Development/Atari/whoever :P) 15:53:25 <orudge> Hnmn 15:53:27 <alex_> hmm and the only thing openttd uses from the oringinal is the grpahics? 15:53:32 <orudge> And the sound 15:53:37 <orudge> and the original gameplay 15:53:44 <orudge> (originally derived by reverse engineering) 15:54:00 <alex_> hacking though assembly code? 15:54:05 <orudge> basically 15:54:06 <alex_> throught* 15:54:08 <alex_> -t 15:54:10 <dihedral> orudge: CS is thanked for a good game in the readme 15:54:12 <alex_> wow, thats rough 15:54:32 <alex_> dihedral, lol like that makes up for it 15:54:34 <dihedral> now if CS aint happy about the game, why thank him 15:54:38 <dihedral> why not make him happy 15:54:40 <Sacro> imitation is the sincerest form of flattery 15:54:54 <dihedral> lol 15:55:17 <dihedral> a game that is inspired by ttd can show thanks to CS too 15:55:48 <dihedral> besides - it only has to be migrated far enough to make it clear - this is a own creation now 15:55:53 <ln-> it's a pity CS's Locomotion was what it was. 15:55:58 <dihedral> all features can be used 15:56:00 <Sacro> i used to love Microprose 15:56:07 <Maedhros> dihedral: err, do you know how much effort that would take? 15:56:09 <Sacro> they brought me Transport Tycoon and GP2 15:56:18 <dihedral> Maedhros: unfort - yes 15:56:29 <peter1138> do you also know what "derived" means? 15:56:40 <orudge> dihedral: and you're aware that every previous attempt to do this has failed? :> 15:56:54 <orudge> basically, as far as I'm concerned, we can carry on, or we can stop. There's not really another option 15:56:56 <dihedral> giving up? 15:56:58 <orudge> unless there's some sort of motivation 15:57:01 <Sacro> i don't recall any 15:57:07 <orudge> Sacro: any what? 15:57:10 <orudge> Transport Empire? 15:57:10 <orudge> TT2? 15:57:11 <orudge> TTU? 15:57:12 <orudge> etc 15:57:19 <Sacro> oh... yeah 15:57:58 <dihedral> my motivation would be having a public statement by CS and seeing them being grateful that openttd devs understand CS 15:58:27 <dihedral> and that openttd honores CS work and oppinion and feelings 15:59:00 <orudge> That may be your motivation, but will it be enough of a motivation for everyone else? 15:59:17 <orudge> especially considering that losing two years of work would probably be quite a significant "demotivation", if there's such a word :p 15:59:26 <dihedral> i dont know - i just hope there is something to make all happy 15:59:42 <dihedral> orudge: you would not have to 'lose' work as such 15:59:50 <orudge> Well 16:00:01 <dihedral> you need a new engine 16:00:04 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0F15C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:09 <dihedral> you need new graphics + sounds 16:00:12 <orudge> One could argue that even the "new" code in OpenTTD is, legally-speaking, "tainted" 16:00:20 <orudge> because it's still built on those core foundations 16:00:26 <orudge> that were laid by Ludde from his reverse engineering 16:00:35 <dihedral> one could talk to marjacq about it 16:00:50 <Sacro> even if you upgrade to elrails, its still the same line underneath :( 16:01:09 <Belugas> i would rather envision someting like a good talk indeed... 16:01:17 <ln-> dihedral: i'm afraid you think OTTD code is much more modular than it really is; i don't think it would be easy just to plug in a new engine without changing a lot of code all around the project. 16:01:27 <orudge> I fear such a talk would not end up being favourable for us, however. 16:01:37 <dihedral> ln-: that would be the aim 16:02:01 <dihedral> orudge: depends what 'favourable for us' means 16:02:48 <orudge> considering Chris Sawyer is not generally a fan of such projects, even if they are technically independent, would he be happy even if we reconstructed a new game that just happened to be very similar to TTD? 16:03:46 <dihedral> marjacq is aware of the fact that reverse engeneering was done - so i believe it would be fine 16:03:48 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0C5AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:28 <dihedral> they see their clients contract at first place, protecting their work 16:05:21 <dihedral> guy was most thankful for me asking and checking what they / their clients think 16:05:27 <Sacro> Guy Herbert 16:05:27 <Sacro> Has a background in publishing, small company finance, and law. Currently works in a wide range of industries dealing with intellectual property, and has provided Marjacq and its clients with advice on contractual and financial issues since 1993. 16:05:37 <orudge> I was just reading that, Sacro 16:05:41 <orudge> and just about to paste that 16:05:42 <orudge> D: 16:05:48 <orudge> stop stealing my brainwaves 16:05:50 <Sacro> hehe :p 16:05:56 <orudge> I even had it highlighted! 16:06:08 <alex_> we can debate this for hours, lets just solve it when the time comes 16:06:14 <alex_> if we goto court, ill hand over my 16:06:40 <dihedral> alex_: not helpful 16:06:56 <alex_> dihedral, ok, ok, 16:07:45 <alex_> CS + marjacq coming down on openttd would only put the project underground 16:08:47 <orudge> Nevertheless, we have no indication that that /will/ happen. It /may/ happen, but that's always been a risk. If people want to create a new "clean" project, then that's fair, but even then, one could argue that if they've been involved with OpenTTD, they could still be "tainting" the code (again, see the ReactOS/Microsoft, and FreeDOS/MS-DOS issues in the past) 16:08:58 <dihedral> alex_: turning around now and informing CS + marjacq now would though in return flood the projects + devs with thanks 16:09:35 <orudge> or, if people keep bothering them, it may motivate them to shut us down properly ;> 16:09:45 <Sacro> if we restart, we might have to drop a lot of the main devvs 16:09:57 <dihedral> and why would that be 16:10:04 <orudge> "If people want to create a new "clean" project, then that's fair, but even then, one could argue that if they've been involved with OpenTTD, they could still be "tainting" the code (again, see the ReactOS/Microsoft, and FreeDOS/MS-DOS issues in the past)" 16:10:07 <orudge> for instance 16:10:09 <orudge> with ReactOS 16:10:15 <orudge> there were some developers who had seen the leaked Windows 2000 code 16:10:23 <orudge> and used their knowledge to implement some internal functions 16:10:34 <orudge> this provoked a variety of legal issues 16:10:56 <alex_> i dont think CS would go that far 16:11:01 <orudge> Something similar happened with FreeDOS, where someone had seen some MS-DOS source code, and used his knowledge of it to reimplement the same functions in FreeDOS 16:11:14 <alex_> i mean openttd has been going on for ages already, if CS wanted to come down on openttd i tihnk he wouldve done it aslreay 16:11:15 <dihedral> orudge: if any progress was done after communicating it with marjacq i do not think this would have to be the case 16:11:18 <alex_> alreadY* 16:11:21 <orudge> basically, if developers here have knowledge of the internals of TTD, and reimplement certain internals in similar manners, then it may prove problematic 16:12:00 <orudge> dihedral: you do appear to be assuming that Marjacq would be be "happy" if we were to admit such things to them. I'm not so sure it'd be the case... they may appreciate it, but it doesn't mean they're going to condone it any more than they do now 16:12:17 <orudge> I also found Chris Sawyer's comment in the Locomotion manual interesting 16:12:31 <dihedral> which was? 16:12:42 <orudge> where he said he finds the public's modifications and so on interesting (can't recall the exact words), but can't condone them for legal reasons 16:12:53 <orudge> seemed to be in conflict with some prior views of his 16:12:57 <orudge> (and indeed what Marjacq said) 16:14:14 <dihedral> what do you want - openttd and people watching the progress in hope to halt development, or the devs of openttd and possibly a thankful CS 16:14:33 <dihedral> who knows 16:14:54 <dihedral> perhaps the results of that could become something even better than what is there now 16:15:38 <orudge> Well, my opinion again, but it sounds like out of the three or four potential options, three of them basically involve abandoning OpenTTD as it is now. Some users may be prepared to do that, it's not something I personally would want, even if there are potential legal challenges 16:16:07 <orudge> Of course, that's just my opinion 16:16:39 <dihedral> openttd is great - i would not want that to vanish - but when i come to think about it - what makes openttd great are the people doing work on it 16:17:49 <alex_> imk sure the revenue income of ttd stopped a long time ago for CS 16:18:03 <alex_> now, it maybe starting back up agian with openttd 16:18:10 <alex_> maybe CS is making money off openttd 16:18:11 <Sacro> well... i doubt it 16:18:16 <Sacro> nobody is still seeling TTD 16:18:16 <orudge> It'd help if they rereleased TTD... 16:18:19 <orudge> although, then 16:18:26 <orudge> you may argue that OpenTTD is partially in competition with TTD 16:18:29 <dihedral> orudge: released as what 16:18:29 <alex_> bitbyte.com could be 16:18:34 <orudge> although, yes, it needs the data files as present 16:18:37 <orudge> dihedral: for purchase 16:18:52 <orudge> ie, one cannot very easily go out and buy TTD 16:18:55 <Sacro> surely when we start to use our own data files, his chance of making money gets less? 16:18:59 <orudge> Sacro: yes 16:19:11 <orudge> based on the assumption that people who use openttd buy the game 16:19:12 <orudge> some do 16:19:13 <orudge> many don't 16:19:20 <alex_> couldnt he just take all the openttd code? 16:19:22 <dihedral> i think their main point is that openttd stole CS's work 16:19:36 <alex_> i mean its opensource, but he could take it, shut down the project, and sell it? 16:19:45 <dihedral> he had an idea with the game and he seemd happy with it 16:20:13 <dihedral> when openttd came along he saw HIS work 'vandalized' 16:20:16 <orudge> alex_: not as such 16:20:29 <Sacro> we,,, extended it 16:20:33 <dihedral> same with any other project based on his work 16:20:34 <orudge> besides, it'd be nigh on impossible to eradicate OpenTTD from the Internet 16:20:55 <dihedral> orudge: beside the point :-) 16:21:03 <orudge> they could attempt to stop official development 16:21:03 <Belugas> they said the same about Napster... 16:21:10 <orudge> but somebody else could take the code and carry on working on it 16:21:14 <orudge> they'd then have to mount a new lawsuit on them 16:21:14 <orudge> and so on 16:21:19 <peter1138> napster was centralised, heh 16:21:22 <orudge> they'd never manage to get rid of it completely 16:22:02 <orudge> the other thing is, OK, they could mount a legal challenge, but unless any of us happen to have a large bank balance, they're probably not going to get very much out of it 16:22:14 <orudge> would it be worth the costs to mount lawsuits in various countries and so on? 16:22:16 <dihedral> what do you want to do - what is right, and makes the author happy, and perhaps honor his work? or stick to you want to hold on to 16:22:42 <dihedral> it is not about money 16:22:53 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well until some officially statement is made by CS or his agency, the project openttd should keep going normally :) 16:23:00 <orudge> dihedral: personally, the latter. I'm sure everyone here does appreciate Chris Sawyer's work immenseley, and if it weren't for him we wouldn't be here. Many do disagree with his notion that his game in itself is "perfect" and shouldn't be tampered with 16:23:01 <orudge> and so on. 16:23:05 <orudge> Digitalfox_Desktop: agreed 16:23:20 <orudge> OpenTTD may not be Chris Sawyer's "vision" 16:23:24 <orudge> and OK, he may not like it 16:23:31 <Sacro> actually, i was upset when i found out how much tampering he'd done with TTO to get TTD 16:23:38 *** SpBot [terom@zapotekII.paivola.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:41 <orudge> but in a way, it's a tribute to him that there are many people still playing his games 16:23:49 *** SpBot [terom@zapotekII.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 16:23:50 <orudge> and still enjoying his ideas and so on 16:23:56 <Sacro> 11 years on? 16:23:57 <Sacro> 12? 16:24:09 <orudge> If TTDPatch and OpenTTD weren't around, it's a fair bet that TTD wouldn't have half the fans it does today 16:24:13 <orudge> if only because the game couldn't be played on XP 16:24:32 <Sacro> i have TTO working on dosbox 16:24:43 <orudge> Sacro: yes, but average joe doesn't know about dosbox 16:24:56 <orudge> whereas someone can probably google "transport tycoon" and find openttd a bit easier than figuring out how to set up a dos emulator :p 16:25:02 <Sacro> no, but those who grew up with DOS will 16:25:27 <Digitalfox_Desktop> For me this says everything: "No, neither the DOS version nor the Win95 version will run under Windows 2000 or XP. The changes required for Transport Tycoon Deluxe Win95 to run under Windows 2000/XP are probably minimal, but it's unlikely it will ever be updated unless the time and costs can be justified by potential sales and the willingness of the publisher to market an updated version."... 16:25:29 <Digitalfox_Desktop> ...So he only cares if a publisher demonstrates interest in a new publishing of TTD ... 16:25:47 <Sacro> potential sales? 16:25:59 <Sacro> has he not seen how many copies of OpenTTD and TTDPatch have been downloaded? 16:26:06 <orudge> and that's also my point about legal action. Legal action is expensive. If he can't even be bothered to market a new version, I doubt he's going to be all that bothered about mounting a lawsuit 16:26:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Sacro: http://www.chrissawyer.com/faq2.htm 16:26:12 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 16:26:13 <orudge> as he's not going to get much out of it 16:26:17 <orudge> yes, OK, the whole thing isn't about money 16:26:21 <orudge> there's what's "right" 16:26:32 <orudge> but ultimately, the potential chance of a lawsuit IS about money. 16:26:50 <orudge> If OpenTTD were making money, then a lawsuit would seem a lot more likely 16:27:51 *** scrooge [~balli@dsl-149-96-155.hive.is] has joined #openttd 16:28:04 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But he isn't getting any real money of a lawsuit against openttd, first theres no money being made, second a court wouldn't give him millions like the one he has against atari.. But thats just my way of seeing it :) 16:28:41 <KUDr> [18:26:50] <orudge> If OpenTTD were making money, then a lawsuit would seem a lot more likely << the same can happen if he thinks he is loosing money 16:29:04 *** Kejhic [~jklamo@81.31.26.224] has joined #openttd 16:29:10 <orudge> That as may be, but he's probably losing more by not marketing an updated version himself 16:29:19 <Digitalfox_Desktop> In court he could only invoke less sales of ttd, but who still sells legally copys of ttd?? 16:29:31 <orudge> you can find a few seconds hand copies on eBay, Amazon, etc 16:29:38 <orudge> but of course, it's not on general release as such 16:29:53 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But are they legally sellede by companys or stores or personal copys used? 16:29:54 <guru3> Digitalfox_Desktop: i found one in the last two years 16:29:57 <Digitalfox_Desktop> *selled 16:30:01 <Sacro> KUDr: but if he has lost money to due to not having XP compatibilty, then that's his issue? 16:30:05 <KUDr> can be not only TTD but others (locomotion?) 16:30:34 <KUDr> if ottd is playable and better 16:30:40 <KUDr> he can lose money 16:30:59 <dihedral> fact is that they aint happy with any of the projects, and that they are more than aware of them 16:31:02 <KUDr> or any new product he is thinking about 16:31:24 <Sacro> if CS brought out an updated Transport Tycoon, i'd buy it 16:31:27 <KUDr> simply "if you can eliminate the competition before entering the market, do it" 16:31:47 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well to me, keep the good development that has been made in openttd.. And wait for something officially declared by cs ( witch i believe will never happen ).. 16:31:51 <orudge> dihedral: this is something we've basically known for ages though 16:31:59 <orudge> Chris Sawyer himself expressed his dislike of TTDPatch back in 1999 or so 16:32:13 <orudge> so it's hardly surprising that the same is true of OpenTTD 16:32:14 <dihedral> you have a link? 16:32:17 <orudge> one sec 16:32:17 <KUDr> and we can use new data files of it and tell users "if you want to play ottd, buy this one first" 16:32:33 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Well the patch is in the same route has openttd.. Because it alters the game also.. So if patch devs don't stop why should openttd? 16:32:34 <Sacro> if he wants to make money 16:32:40 <KUDr> in the worst case this can be the result of his legal effort 16:32:45 <Sacro> why doesn't he purchase a server, and sell the needed data files 16:32:57 <KUDr> he will want to make money from our work 16:33:09 <Sacro> then we could say, "if you need the data files, CS has them available here for $xxx" 16:33:10 <KUDr> yes, he can 16:33:20 <KUDr> but needs support from us 16:33:27 <KUDr> to tell users "you must" 16:33:34 <dihedral> the data files are also not the point 16:33:35 *** Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:44 <orudge> hmmm 16:33:48 <orudge> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.games.rctycoon/browse_frm/thread/b588592a7d934935/5348a3c0934bbd51?lnk=st&q=chris+sawyer+opinion&rnum=4#5348a3c0934bbd51 is one of the threads 16:33:51 <orudge> I have a feeling there was another 16:34:15 <Sacro> haha, i like how he put, "it was from Him" 16:34:40 <Sacro> oh, but it's a german... so it may be capitlised by their rules 16:34:53 <orudge> Sacro: Josef has a pretty good grasp of English 16:34:59 <orudge> so I don't really think it was that 16:35:03 <Kejhic> hmm, i found bug in nigtly with tram and tunnel, anybody know about it? 16:37:04 <Sacro> haha, i love his sig 16:37:14 <orudge> Sacro is a newbie, I guess, he was never on AGMTT, was he? 16:37:20 <Sacro> :o 16:37:33 <Sacro> actually, i think i did go on it a couple of times 16:38:29 <Sacro> orudge: by the way, i am older than you :p 16:39:05 <orudge> Yes 16:39:13 <orudge> but it doesn't mean you've been around in the TT world for longer than me :p 16:39:31 <Sacro> well i got TTO back in... beginning of 96 i think 16:39:55 <orudge> but when did you first join the TT community as such? :p 16:40:40 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-110.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:40:48 <Sacro> BobingAbout! 16:40:55 <BobingAbout> Sacro! 16:41:03 <Sacro> orudge: err... i've been visitng tt-forums on and off for years 16:41:04 <orudge> another Hullian D: 16:41:05 <orudge> :p 16:41:07 <Sacro> i do remember the church of tt 16:41:10 <orudge> Sacro: yes, but before tt-forums existed? ;) 16:41:16 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 16:41:18 <Sacro> err... 16:41:24 <Sacro> i think i went on the usenet group 16:41:29 <orudge> anyway 16:41:32 * orudge is hungry 16:41:35 * orudge shall get food soon probably 16:41:42 <BobingAbout> FOOD 16:41:46 <Sacro> orudge: tesco have maryland cookies on bogof 16:41:56 <orudge> BOG OFF. 16:43:27 *** Phazorx [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:22 <SpComb> Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) 16:44:22 <Ammler> !logs 16:46:00 <SpComb> new and upgraded, now with a help system, and some text nagging you to register! 16:46:32 *** skidd13 is now known as skidd13|dinner 16:46:48 <Sacro> SpComb: you still can't talk through it though 16:47:02 <SpComb> a design decision 16:48:22 <orudge> SpBot: you also can't search by date 16:48:31 <orudge> as far as I can see? 16:49:02 <SpComb> search by date? 16:49:04 <orudge> well 16:49:11 <orudge> in the old logs, you can specify how many days to search 16:49:14 <orudge> eg, 1, 2, 5, 60, etc 16:49:15 <SpComb> there's a list of dates, but not in the search thing 16:49:17 <orudge> you can't in this one 16:49:22 <BobingAbout> ... 16:49:30 <SpComb> indeed, some kind of limiting as to the results returned is needed 16:49:32 <orudge> it'd also be nice if it showed more than 10 lines, although I guess that's a preference thing 16:49:41 <SpComb> that, and Alt-PageUp 16:49:42 <orudge> ah, yes 16:49:47 <SpComb> as the help file now says 16:50:11 <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Wow, that's actually pretty awesome 16:50:15 <orudge> also, tis just plain Page Up in Firefox, as far as I can see 16:50:23 <orudge> (on Windows) 16:50:32 <SpComb> PageUp just scrolls, Alt-PageUp grows 16:50:41 <orudge> Ah 16:50:41 <SpComb> Prof_Frink: which part, or is it just the first time you looked at them? :P 16:50:42 <orudge> so it does 16:50:59 <Prof_Frink> First time 16:51:11 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-87-102-41-110.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [] 16:51:21 <SpComb> I clearly need to spam more about SpBot 16:51:35 <SpComb> and the scrolling is in the same category as the search-limiting 16:51:37 <orudge> Is there any way of it having an option just to dump the whole log though, in a manner similar to the old logs? 16:51:40 <orudge> ie, without the fancy interface 16:51:47 <orudge> I guess for that one would just use the old logs... 16:51:54 <orudge> it's easier to search through manually and so on, in a way 16:51:57 <orudge> than using the new interface 16:52:00 <orudge> (which is nice, by the way) 16:52:21 <SpComb> there used to be a show-all-logs-for-day, but I removed that 16:52:35 <SpComb> setting a large value for height and scroll speed in preferences, and then use that? :P 16:52:41 <orudge> :P 16:52:43 <orudge> Anyway, food, really 16:56:25 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:56:44 *** Sedontane [~sedontane@89.240.232.200] has joined #openttd 16:57:18 *** Sedontane [~sedontane@89.240.232.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:35 *** Sedontane [~sedontane@89.240.232.200] has joined #openttd 16:57:48 <SmatZ> when I quit the game (using Ctrl+Q) while the End-of-the-game screen is displayed, the game segfaults 16:58:07 <Sacro> SmatZ: don't do it then :p 16:58:26 <SmatZ> Sacro: ahhh, great solution :))) 16:59:12 <SmatZ> another strange thing - when somebody connects while the server is paused, the text 'Player connected, unpausing' is displayed, though the game remains paused 16:59:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:59:31 <Wolf01> hello 16:59:34 <SmatZ> these are so small problems that opening a bug report is too much :) 16:59:39 <SmatZ> Wolf01: hello 17:00:41 *** skidd13|dinner is now known as skidd13 17:00:45 <Sacro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04 17:02:36 <orudge> spammar 17:02:46 <Wolf01> seem that today i have a real bug for you: the industry list sorts for English strings, not for translated strings, so if i want to sort by name it sorts by the city name, not for industry name, for cargo is the same, it sorts for English cargo name :/ 17:09:18 *** Kejhic [~jklamo@81.31.26.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:09:34 <Maedhros> /* Sort by Name (handled later) */ 17:09:41 <Maedhros> ;) 17:10:01 <Maedhros> i don't know what it's doing in the gui if it doesn't actually work though... 17:10:02 <Wolf01> nice to know it :) 17:14:50 <dihedral> http://www.break.com/index/roommate-cereal-prank.html 17:15:50 <dihedral> http://www.break.com/index/the-assumption-song.html << this is even better 17:21:12 *** Sedontane [~sedontane@89.240.232.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:21:43 *** HMage [Queneex@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:27:59 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 17:32:17 *** Ailure [Gamefreak@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 17:37:28 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:39:56 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:48:10 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:33 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 17:49:23 <SmatZ> about the FS#1016 17:49:32 <SmatZ> "Additional comments about closing: Although the sample.cat might be questionnable, the graphic files are required, if only for the dimensions of the trains, which is used for colision detection" 17:50:17 <SmatZ> it is not used atm (in my opinion), there is a hardwired value - distance of < 6 in any direction -> crash 17:50:46 <SmatZ> train_cmd.cpp - myabs(v->x_pos - tcc->v->x_pos) < 6 17:52:19 <Rubidium> hmm, bad reason, though the graphics files are required in some non-drawing areas 17:53:09 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 17:58:52 <SmatZ> ok :) just to make sure the collision detection this way is correct 18:08:01 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:05 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:15:45 <hylje> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXXFZCsuQPk 18:19:23 <Ammler> oh man, won't end... 18:22:54 *** Strid [~Strid@83.216.101.80] has joined #openttd 18:31:11 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:13 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:33:26 <SmatZ> how many engines are there in that train? 18:33:52 <hylje> 3 in front, 2 in the end 18:34:51 <SmatZ> and I though my trains in OTTD are unrealistic long :) 18:36:22 <hylje> ottd doesnt support facilities necessary for OMG HUEG trains 18:36:41 <hylje> say, rearranging a few trains to be one big one outside (or even inside) a depot 18:38:42 <SmatZ> :) 18:39:23 <hylje> also, rolling load/unload 18:46:01 <Ammler> sounds like a good idea for a patch 18:48:24 <Smoovious> <ln-> Gekko[PDA]: ludde himself has said he has done reverse engineering. <--- (yeah I know its old) but he wasn't bound by US laws... anyone know what the relevant laws on reverse engineering are in Sweden? 18:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> since when is this about US law? i thought CS was british... 18:51:03 <Caemyr> hmm 18:51:10 <Caemyr> i can ask one guy right now 18:51:11 <Caemyr> wait 18:51:25 <orudge> Chris Sawyer is British, and Marjacq is based in the UK 18:53:21 <dihedral> Smoovious: if there is money for a lawyer - get him to find out 18:53:35 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:54:13 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 18:54:45 <dihedral> and after thinking for some time i must agree with orudge: the longer marjacq is taking, the less chance they have on doing anything! code in trunk is moving forward in ways that will not really allow to show where it came from 18:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it is not about what the laws are, but what they were 3(?) years ago when the alleged reverse engineering took place 18:55:04 <orudge> well 18:55:08 <orudge> the reverse engineering took place in Sweden 18:55:09 <dihedral> the fact that ttd's game data is used is not enough to prove reverse engeneering was done 18:55:17 <orudge> that may or may not make a difference, too 18:55:56 <Sacro|Laptop> well yes 18:56:04 <Sacro|Laptop> its a similar situation to thepiratebay 18:56:05 <dihedral> though it would be nice to have a better solution - i.e. some agreement with marjacq 18:56:20 <orudge> It'd be nice 18:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the situation anyway, they have to prove that we did reverse engineer, not we have to prove that we did not 18:56:24 <Sacro|Laptop> they keep getting letters pointing out how they are illegal under "US Federal Law" 18:56:33 <orudge> but unfortunately, Marjacq's goals don't really match our own, ultimately 18:56:38 <Sacro|Laptop> and they reply "Yes, but Sweden isn't part of the US" 18:56:56 <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause: theoretically, innocent until proven guitly 18:56:59 <Sacro|Laptop> *guilty 18:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if the comparison with tpb is a really good one in front of a court :p 18:58:15 <Caemyr> depends in which country:) 18:58:20 <Caemyr> not in the USA:P 18:58:22 <Caemyr> that`s for surr 18:58:24 <Caemyr> sure 18:58:50 <Caemyr> CS needs to get a grip on reality 18:58:58 <Maedhros> err, what? 18:59:07 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if something is legal in one country, and illegal in another, there is the question if exporting that something to the other country is legal 18:59:21 <Caemyr> if not the TTDpatch/OpenTDD, no one would remember him right now 18:59:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Caemyr: i think you are completely missing the point 19:00:07 <Caemyr> it`s like Baldurs Gate devs would bitch on the community, for creating the mods 19:00:14 <orudge> [19:56:39] <Sacro|Laptop> and they reply "Yes, but Sweden isn't part of the US" <-- didn't stop the US managing to extradite an Australian who had never set foot in the US 19:00:28 <Caemyr> Australia is a funny country 19:00:35 <Sacro|Laptop> orudge: true... 19:00:46 <Sacro|Laptop> you reckon that sweden would send ludde here? 19:00:48 <Sacro|Laptop> i doubt that 19:00:51 <Caemyr> has the hardest copyright laws 19:00:59 <Caemyr> they are more strict than USA 19:01:36 <dihedral> orudge: buying permission :-) 19:01:44 <orudge> Sacro|Laptop: doubt it, but just saying ;) 19:02:22 *** Lone [~Woody@a194-109-235-84.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:02:50 <Caemyr> and btw on ReactOS, the audit happened only because that hoax got out 19:03:00 <Caemyr> about presumable leaked code 19:03:31 <Maedhros> that's still not the point 19:03:45 <Caemyr> Ms havent done or comment about ROS yet 19:04:17 <Caemyr> whereas for example, the Longhorn project got busted really soon 19:05:21 <Sacro|Laptop> did it? 19:05:30 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:05:33 <Caemyr> they got C&D 19:05:37 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:43 <Sacro|Laptop> Firefox can't find the server at longhorn-reloaded.org. D: 19:05:45 <Caemyr> and dropped it 19:05:48 <Sacro|Laptop> i was gonna try running it 19:05:58 <Caemyr> this was stolen code 19:06:02 <Caemyr> binaries 19:06:06 <Caemyr> to be exact 19:06:38 <Caemyr> I`m just trying to say that CS would act againt the project if he wanted to 19:07:56 <Caemyr> you either act, or dont act. Threatening to act shows your weakness. 19:10:03 <Caemyr> my only hope is that you guys wont drop this project just because CS is smirking his nose 19:10:06 <Caemyr> bbl 19:12:54 *** smoovi [~smoovi@dslb-088-073-074-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:15:01 *** lolman [~lolman@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:30:11 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:53 <izhirahider> where do I choose this primary industry prospection thing? 19:34:09 <izhirahider> I can't seem to find it in the patches section (in svn) 19:35:28 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-93.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 19:36:40 <SmatZ> izhirahider: in the Economy section of patches 19:37:15 <SmatZ> there is something like 'Primary indutry construction style' 19:37:36 <Digitalfox> Is this by design or bug?? 19:37:37 <Digitalfox> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v514/Digitalfox/?action=view¤t=FortFronninghallTransport1stFeb2030.png 19:38:03 <Digitalfox> When building 4 airbus 380 with planeset newgrf, i have two normal ones and 2 strange ones 19:38:17 <hylje> its likely a bug 19:38:30 <Digitalfox> Like if they were using old sprites from original graphics 19:39:12 <Rubidium> well, it's more likely that those aircraft are built with another livery 19:39:12 <Digitalfox> Hum.. I will create a bug report 19:39:46 <Digitalfox> but they the use the normal livery of passengers.. I just clicked 4 times 19:40:09 <Rubidium> newgrfs can change the livery on build too (IIRC) 19:40:33 <Belugas> SmatZ, IIRC, 2nd option of Economy tab on configuration patches 19:41:03 <izhirahider> Belugas, SmatZ, thanks 19:41:30 <izhirahider> I wasn't recognizing my own translation :) 19:42:23 <peter1138> Digitalfox: it's by design 19:42:41 <peter1138> as you'll know if you read the readme 19:43:02 <Digitalfox> peter1138: But when i chose to reffit and try all possibilities i never get those graphics 19:43:38 <peter1138> yes 19:45:01 <Digitalfox> Well, ok... But in my opinion it's a strange by design.. Because i wanted all my 380 to look like the minishot :\ 19:45:30 <peter1138> sell the dodgy ones and buy new ones 19:45:30 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:36 <peter1138> it's randomised 19:45:38 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:45:56 <hylje> :o? 19:46:01 <hylje> what why 19:46:02 <peter1138> oh, and it's the design of the planeset, nothing to do with ottd 19:46:05 <Digitalfox> They still appear the same in the same slots 19:46:06 <peter1138> ö 19:46:10 <hylje> ö 19:46:14 <Digitalfox> yeah ok 19:46:28 <Digitalfox> I'll talk to dalestan.. Oh boy it's going to be a hard task 19:46:29 <peter1138> if you read the readme it will tell you which parameters control that behaviour 19:46:30 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest942 19:46:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:46:42 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest943 19:46:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:46:48 *** Guest943 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 19:47:10 <Digitalfox> oh ok.. I'll read, thank god no talk.. 19:47:37 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*De_Ghost@*.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] by peter1138 19:47:38 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*gekko@*.ed.shawcable.net] by peter1138 19:48:09 <Sacro|Laptop> hehe 19:49:03 *** Guest942 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:49:23 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 19:54:34 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:55:05 * Smoovious is finally in realtime. 19:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> time now is 21:56 19:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> are you there yet? :p 19:56:31 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:58 *** NukeBuster [~opera@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:57:08 <dihedral> good night ladies :-) 19:58:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:58:46 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-209-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.4/2007051502]] 19:59:33 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-227-187.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 19:59:59 <Smoovious> nope... just caught up so the timestamp over there <-- matches the clock over there --> 20:00:58 <Smoovious> well... as far as a 24-hour clock with seconds, can match up with a 12-hour clock without seconds can, anyways 20:01:32 <Prof_Frink> Smoovious: Is your clock only accurate twice a day? 20:01:38 <elmz> 24h w/sec ftw :P 20:01:39 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:02:00 <Prof_Frink> elmz: Pah, unixtime 20:02:15 <elmz> haha, ok, have to admit, much cooler 20:08:17 <Prof_Frink> Or, binary clock 20:19:08 <elmz> binary unix time :P 20:22:12 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:25:43 <hylje> Prof_Frink: the clock is either 1 or 0? 20:34:52 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:17 <Biff> hylje: 01000110100100111110110101111011 20:35:19 <Biff> like that 20:35:27 <hylje> i see 20:35:45 <Biff> try: perl -e 'print unpack("B*", pack("N",time()))' 20:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> my maths teacher had a binary watch ;) 20:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it displayed hours, minutes and seconds in binary :) 20:44:54 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:14 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:46:05 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:47:05 <hylje> increase max player count pls 20:47:41 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 20:48:45 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause> demand and ye shall ... 20:58:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10500 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1007]: cannot navigate using arrow keys in the game name text box. Patch by benc. 20:59:11 <hylje> :o 20:59:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10501 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#1015]: error dialog was sometimes shown on all clients when a command failed instead of only the client that actually did the command. 21:01:55 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:52 <MUcht> again, the feature of having > 10 clients on our server is highly desirable 21:07:15 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7E78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 21:16:15 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:03 <caladan> Eddi|zuHause: I once build a binary clock, now im thinking of building my own watch. It's really matter of saving power 21:31:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host240-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:36:33 <ln-> does there happen to be a library for drawing and handling isometric terrains? 21:38:09 <Ailure> [22:56] <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10501 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#1015]: error dialog was sometimes shown on all clients when a command failed instead of only the client that actually did the command. 21:38:11 <Ailure> hah 21:38:16 <Ailure> and I thought that was a feature 21:38:17 <Ailure> D: 21:40:05 <Eddi|zuHause> most "isometric" views are not really isometric anyway 21:42:51 <Eddi|zuHause> isometric view is based on an angle of 30° (=arcsin(1/2)), but for pixel based views, an angle of ~26.5°(=arctan(1/2)) is easier to implement 21:43:20 <ln-> hmm, ok. 21:43:38 <Ailure> heh 21:43:39 <ln-> so does there happen to be a library for drawing and handling arctan(1/2) terrains? 21:43:42 <Ailure> and with real isometric view 21:43:58 <Ailure> a cube sides is as large 21:44:00 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 21:44:00 <Caemyr> btw 21:44:07 <Ailure> assuming the cube is of a x*x*x size 21:44:10 <Caemyr> swedish laws allow reverse engineering 21:44:18 <Ailure> yes I belive so 21:44:18 <Caemyr> without any special restrictions 21:44:20 *** smoovi [~smoovi@dslb-088-073-074-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:45 <Caemyr> if only it doesnt lead to breaking copyrights 21:46:25 <ln-> in this case it did. 21:50:26 <Caemyr> what was the name of that swedish guy 21:50:34 <Caemyr> that did the disassembly? 21:50:43 <Caemyr> if this is not a secret?:) 21:51:08 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:36 <Smoovious> ludde 21:51:39 <SmatZ> Caemyr: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=6559 21:51:47 <Caemyr> thank you 21:51:47 *** MarkMc [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 21:51:55 <ln-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludvig_Strigeus 21:54:51 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 21:58:42 <Ailure> heh 21:59:01 <Ailure> Ludde dosen't really ive that far away from me if wikipedia is right about his location 21:59:19 <Ailure> although he hadn't been active for years in the openTTD project and is mostly working on uTorrent 22:00:01 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C749.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:17 <Ailure> hmm 22:00:30 <Ailure> there's a lack of a swedish flag for languages ;) 22:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think he showed up here a while ago... telling something about renewing the domain name or something 22:00:34 <Smoovious> he's past µTorrent... he's involving himsellf in a music service now 22:00:43 <Ailure> ah 22:00:59 <Ailure> sounds like the type of guy who works on a project for a bit then drops it for something else 22:01:12 <Ailure> which I probabl will do eventually :p 22:01:39 <Smoovious> well... that's the way it is for lots of programmers... if you're able to work on things that interest you, you wander 22:01:56 <Ailure> yeah 22:02:07 <Ailure> I found myself like 22:02:12 <Ailure> picking up a project rather fast 22:02:15 <Ailure> write lots of nice code 22:02:22 <Ailure> then lose intrest and stop 22:02:33 <Smoovious> yeah 22:02:52 <Smoovious> I got so many unfinished things on my computers its rediculous 22:03:20 <Ailure> same 22:03:28 <Ailure> You should see the number of unfinished projects I have too 22:03:47 <Ailure> Sometimes it dosen't even go out of planning stage 22:03:54 <Ailure> and it's just a prototype showing off something 22:04:05 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7E78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:11:33 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:59 <Smoovious> um... question about that tt-forums link... what is TTU? 22:12:49 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:23 *** valhallasw is now known as valhallasw`dour 22:18:23 *** DeGhosty [~c4command@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 22:18:28 <DeGhosty> i found a bug!! 22:18:47 <DeGhosty> when your train have 100 engins 22:18:53 <DeGhosty> max speed is 4 22:18:55 <DeGhosty> km/h 22:21:05 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:23:13 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:21 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:25:17 <Smoovious> ... 22:26:14 *** flex_ [flex@194.23.101.56] has joined #openttd 22:26:16 *** flex [flex@194.23.101.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:44 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75DD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:32:29 *** DeGhosty [~c4command@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:48 *** DeGhosty [~c4command@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 22:37:14 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:38:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B770AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:51 *** Lone [~Woody@a194-109-235-84.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:45:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10502 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1017]: trying to get the town from a tile that can never be associated with a town. 22:47:05 *** strstrep [brigad@ip68-9-207-179.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 22:50:44 *** Xaroth [~503c1f52@207.250.49.25] has joined #openttd 22:52:44 <Caemyr> btw about ReactOS 22:52:44 <Caemyr> http://www.apiviewer.de/downloads/halo2.png 22:52:46 <Caemyr> :) 22:52:55 <Gekko> lol 22:52:56 <Gekko> cool 22:53:16 <Xaroth> o_O been a while since i last dragged my butt in here 22:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> looks a little quirky 22:59:08 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 23:02:52 *** mikk36[EST] [~mikk36@pc90.host7.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 23:05:38 *** Jezral [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:11 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@pc90.host7.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:35 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75DD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:11:54 *** Nickman^Away [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 23:12:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74D9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:13:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:33 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:24:16 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 23:24:37 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:39:28 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:39:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D838.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:01 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-223-161.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo]