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00:02:26 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:03:06 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 00:05:53 *** mrblah [~mrblah@88-105-150-144.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 00:06:21 <mrblah> ? 00:06:40 *** mrblah [~mrblah@88-105-150-144.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 00:06:41 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 00:06:46 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:07:29 <NukeBuster> ? 00:08:18 <Digitalfox_Desktop> NukeBuster: Crazy people ;) 00:15:20 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But the strange thing is that is almost always at this hour that some strange users appear :\ 00:16:46 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's an evil plot by cs :p 00:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> like a DoS attack :p 00:18:32 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.3 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 00:23:19 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Eddi|zuHause3: Who knows lol 00:28:11 <Smoovious> a DoS attack... nice... 00:29:08 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:16 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 00:29:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 00:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, that's how a DoS attack works, right? you get some strange person to send senseless requests so the server is overloaded with rubbish and cannot deal with the important stuff 00:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> although 1 request per night is probably a poor excuse of an "attack" :p 00:33:22 <Smoovious> not a DoS one anyways... but still qualifies as an attack 00:34:02 <Smoovious> one security site described something similar... site being probed slowly for v ulnerabilities 00:35:03 <SmatZ> some slow portscan? 00:36:21 <Smoovious> ya 00:36:23 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Eddi|zuHause3: Yes, most of the times by using zombies OS.. But for it to work it has be used 100% of all Server side power ( or almost 100%, depends if the server just serves that site/FTP's, etc..).. To make the server unavailable :) 00:36:37 <Smoovious> trying to stay u nder t he radar... but h e got spotted 00:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, even one irregular log entry may cause you to be spotted 00:37:56 <Smoovious> if someone is looking 00:38:01 <SmatZ> it is evening in the US now ... maybe people powering their home computers on ... releasing the zombies ;) 00:38:42 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp83-237-101-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:46 <Smoovious> most admins would be l ooking for quantity... a single innocuous entry would be missed... but t he dude started seeing it more than once... looking m ore familiar... then he decided t o check past logs... 00:38:47 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: hard to say ... I am running an apache server - and there are irregularities (strange requests) very often 00:38:48 <Smoovious> busted 00:39:00 <SmatZ> even I do not have any public website... 00:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox_Desktop: meanwhile, most DoS attacks are distributed, using thousands of machines infected with IRC bots 00:39:32 <Digitalfox_Desktop> But DoS is becaming obsolete and hard to cause, because of policies introduced in OS/Router/etc.. that makes a bigger selection of what can enter or not and at what time interval.. :) 00:39:46 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Eddi|zuHause3: True :) 00:41:28 <Digitalfox_Desktop> When i was taking MCSE/CCNP and HTI one of things we spend 2 weeks learning was that to be really prepared to have security we need to use attack tools and see what they did.. So we spent 2 weeks using attack tools and compromising Windows 2003 and some linux distros to see what policies were wrong.. :) 00:43:17 *** MarkMc [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 00:43:50 <Digitalfox_Desktop> We used almost everything in astalavista and attacks tools widely available on google.. Also one of our colleagues was a programmer and he made some pretty tools to check holes, on routers/switches and OS.. 00:45:11 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Security is always hard to get.. People don't want hard passwords.. Don't want to have to pass a finger-print check because it's strange etc... 00:45:35 <Digitalfox_Desktop> It's more a compromise of security vs easy use 00:46:29 <SmatZ> some of first lines of log - http://paste.openttd.org/167 00:47:09 <Digitalfox_Desktop> And most of directors and presidents of company's think spending money on hardware to secure is a waste of money, since a mercedes is more fun :( 00:50:14 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:35 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:53:40 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-212-235.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 00:57:39 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-212-235.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:01:44 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has left #openttd [] 01:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> looks like a bot trying to go through a list of names 01:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> you could probably easily write a script to detect this behaviour 01:07:09 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: what nicks are problematic? 01:07:27 <SmatZ> I am really confused, I would be happy to understand what you are talking about :) 01:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> not nicknames, filenames 01:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> that possibly contain executable stuff 01:08:34 <SmatZ> at this channel? 01:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean the log you showed 01:09:28 <SmatZ> ah 01:09:44 <SmatZ> sorry I didn't understand :) 01:10:40 <SmatZ> maybe some problematic scripts or exploits 01:12:06 <SmatZ> http://www.google.com/search?q=adxmlrpc.php&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 01:12:14 <SmatZ> "POST /media/adxmlrpc.php HTTP/1.1" 406 349 The log entries may be related to a Nov 10 2005 phpAdsNew vulnerability announcement: ... 01:12:22 <Gekko> fun 01:12:24 <SmatZ> some people trying to exploit 01:12:36 <SmatZ> yeah fun! :) 01:16:24 <SmatZ> good night 01:17:27 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:17:28 *** Rippsy [~Moose@87.127.122.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:19:35 <Gekko> Time to compile nmap 01:21:35 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:30:17 <Sacro> Gekko: don't let Eddi|zuHause3 hear about nmap 01:31:40 <Gekko> lol 01:33:55 <Sacro> wouldn't want those pesky germans getting hold of hacking tools 01:51:28 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl7-182-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 01:57:16 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Tobin] 02:21:40 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:32:24 *** Kyjo [vewkurfavh@nezmar.netlab.cz] has joined #openttd 02:44:12 *** narthollis [criton@ppp121-45-21-83.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:45:33 *** Kyjo [vewkurfavh@nezmar.netlab.cz] has left #openttd [] 02:56:23 <Smoovious> ugh... 02:58:18 <Smoovious> was going to make a patch so the savegames would have the known passwords, so players in a network game don't lose their passwords, but it is a pain in the ass following how the load/save game stuff is doing its thing... 03:01:06 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 03:06:11 *** Markkisen [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 03:08:03 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C2AD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:10:51 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:29 *** MarkMc [~hestporr@h51n6c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:20:06 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:54 *** Tobin [~Tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:39:52 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:52:07 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-111-190.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54:36 *** 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tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B81CB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:34 <alex_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM #### SFW - awesome nature video you must see this!! 08:33:07 <TrueBrain> @kick alex_ get lost 08:33:07 *** alex_ was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [get lost] 08:33:30 <Sionide> weird 08:33:48 <Sionide> SFW youtube spam, that is just strange 08:33:56 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B818C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:35:37 *** alex_ [~joe@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:47 <alex_> fine. 08:36:41 <alex_> 7million views on youtube video, and its not good enough for #openttd? next time i wont post teh linky ;P 08:37:27 <TrueBrain> if we want to see youtube videos that are "so popular", we go and visit the website ourself. Next time it won't read 'kick', but an other 3 letter word. 08:38:03 <TrueBrain> reminds me: good morning people 08:38:20 <blathijs> Good morning TrueBrain 08:38:23 <blathijs> Good to see you :-) 08:38:30 <TrueBrain> :) It's alive! ALIVE!! 08:39:32 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: iPandaMojo] 08:40:43 <alex_> TrueBrain, look at the video, its fucking awesome 08:40:50 <TrueBrain> @op 08:40:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek 08:40:53 <alex_> nothing youve seen in nature videos before :) 08:40:55 *** mode/#openttd [+b alex_!*@*] by TrueBrain 08:40:55 *** alex_ was kicked from #openttd by TrueBrain [Go kick] 08:40:57 <TrueBrain> blabla 08:41:18 <TrueBrain> hmm... my IRC client can't even normally ban people... 08:43:12 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] by TrueBrain 08:43:15 *** mode/#openttd [-b alex_!*@*] by TrueBrain 08:43:18 <TrueBrain> weird IRC client 08:43:19 <TrueBrain> really 08:44:38 <peter1138> :o 08:46:38 <Biff> what client? 08:47:06 <TrueBrain> Konversation 08:47:11 <TrueBrain> doesn't allow any real configuration 08:47:17 <TrueBrain> not even log rotate over days... 08:47:52 <Biff> aha 08:47:56 <Biff> irssi <3 08:48:18 <Biff> beeing sick and going on vacation tomorrow, not so good :( 08:48:27 <TrueBrain> :s 08:48:32 <TrueBrain> where does the vacation go to? 08:48:45 <Rubidium> yeah, Konversation always fails on a headless machine without any X libraries 08:48:46 <Biff> tunisia 08:48:56 <TrueBrain> not bad :) 08:49:10 <Biff> seems very nice 08:49:20 <Biff> we have very bad weather here in norway 08:50:12 <TrueBrain> hehe 08:50:20 <TrueBrain> in some parts of the world they have fires really big 08:50:22 <TrueBrain> the others parts flood 08:50:24 <TrueBrain> dunno 08:50:27 <TrueBrain> sounds like a good OpenTTD scenario 08:51:44 <Biff> hehe 08:54:49 <Gekko> why was alex_ banned? 08:55:05 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:25 <Gekko> oh 08:55:27 <Gekko> i see. 08:55:28 <Gekko> spam. 08:55:48 <TrueBrain> and worse: continuing spam after a really clear warning 08:56:38 <Biff> for some reason i just have to watch the video he posted :-P 08:57:08 <TrueBrain> and for some reason my NoAI is doing some pretty strange stuff :s 09:19:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10533 /branches/noai/ (110 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r10460:r10532. 09:21:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10534 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: [NoAI] -Fix r10533: update regression output 09:23:10 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-212-235.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:33:03 *** Ammller [~ammler@adsl-89-217-212-235.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:38 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-26-170.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:46:34 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-212-235.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:46:44 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] by TrueBrain 09:48:48 *** alexalex [~alexalex@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #openttd 09:48:53 *** alexalex is now known as alex_ 09:48:56 *** alex_ is now known as alex__ 09:55:14 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:59:36 *** Gekko [~Brendan@CPE-124-183-85-6.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:08:32 <Digitalfox_Notebook> I understand why you kicked him TrueBrain :) But the video is pretty cool .. 10:10:04 <Rubidium> Digitalfox_Notebook: "nature" videos usually point to porn 10:10:21 <Digitalfox_Notebook> Rubidium: True :) 10:10:43 <Rubidium> and this is not a channel to post porn links in 10:10:55 <Digitalfox_Notebook> very true 10:12:44 <Digitalfox_Notebook> When creating a newgrf set, how do we know what GRFID to give, and avoiding having one already used by other set? :\ 10:16:26 <Rubidium> don't know, but I've got the feeling it's just a gamble whether it's already used 10:16:45 <Rubidium> but the first two bytes are usually the same for each author 10:16:59 <Rubidium> like PikkaBird's stuff always has 4444xxxx 10:17:38 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 10:17:49 <Digitalfox_Notebook> I see.. And it makes sence... Thanks.. 10:23:43 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-26-170.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:15 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB4DCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:37:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10535 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: set _current_player also for dying AI (tnx Rubidium for the help!!) 10:39:48 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 10:42:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10536 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/run.sh src/video/null_v.cpp): [NoAI] -Add: added option for null-driver to configure how long it should run (-vnull:ticks=10000) 10:46:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10537 /trunk/src/video/null_v.cpp: -Backport r10536: added option for null-driver to configure how long it should run (-vnull:ticks=10000) 10:48:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10538 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIVehicleStationList, which lists all stations a vehicle goes to 10:50:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10539 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_stationlist.hpp: [NoAI] -Documentation: added some comments for AI(Vehicle)StationList 10:54:06 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-26-170.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 10:54:50 *** Digitalfox_Notebook [~chatzilla@bl7-182-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]] 10:57:09 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai 10:58:58 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 10:59:50 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 11:03:27 *** HMage [HMage@hmage.dialup.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:04:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10540 /branches/noai/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStationVehicleList, which lists all vehicles that go to a given station 11:04:29 <TrueBrain> k, that should be enough to make profitable lines with RV :) 11:07:17 *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@195.39.113.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:29 *** KUDr_wrk [~KUDr@195.39.113.200] has joined #openttd 11:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> so it is now capable of replacing the old new ai? 11:21:43 <TrueBrain> besides a pathfinder, which is possible in SQ itself, yes 11:22:06 <TrueBrain> oh, and it misses support for bridges and tunnels 11:22:08 <TrueBrain> minor details :) 11:25:05 <TrueBrain> but now first: Traveler 11:27:43 <Sionide> ahhhh crap 11:27:52 <Sionide> i'm rubbish and doing RRLL mainlines :( 11:27:55 <Sionide> at* 11:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, because it should be LLRR :) 11:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> but trying LRLR could be fun also 11:30:32 <TrueBrain> LRRL :) 11:30:42 <Sionide> hmm 11:35:41 <TrueBrain> LRDRL :p (D = Double Direction) 11:37:20 <Sionide> the mainline has always been RL, now i'm having to change all the junctions 11:37:21 <Sionide> arrgghhh 11:37:22 <Sionide> heh 11:39:38 <TrueBrain> playing OpenTTD... I didn't do that in a long while.. 11:40:10 <Digitalfox_Desktop> O_O 11:40:59 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Go play TrueBrain.. Hey you deserve the fun .. 11:41:08 *** Taikaponi [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 11:41:17 <TrueBrain> fun fun... what is fun.... :p 11:42:10 <Digitalfox_Desktop> 9_9 11:42:14 <TrueBrain> 8_8 11:42:51 <Digitalfox_Desktop> It didn't show an emoticon? 11:42:57 <TrueBrain> I refuse! 11:43:01 <Digitalfox_Desktop> heh 11:43:19 <blathijs> #mep emoticons 11:43:24 <blathijs> smileys ftw! 11:43:27 <Digitalfox_Desktop> fine go make some new features for openttd lol 11:45:00 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:48:01 <TrueBrain> Digitalfox_Desktop: did enough NoAI for one day :p 11:48:16 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Sure did :) 11:48:51 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: there is already somebody who wrote a pathfinder in SQ, so it should be fairly easy to make nice AIs with fairly little effort 11:48:58 <TrueBrain> yup 11:49:03 <TrueBrain> local city routes I already have 11:54:55 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I meant pathfinder for new inter city routes 11:55:46 <TrueBrain> I know 11:56:43 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:57:41 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 12:06:30 <alex__> um 12:06:39 <alex__> which packages do you need agian for openttd to run in *nix? 12:08:02 <TrueBrain> I hate Traveler... it always ends when it just got good! 12:08:54 <Rubidium> alex__: see wiki 12:09:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10541 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy.h saveload.cpp): 12:09:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1028]: cargo payment rates overflow. 12:09:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: cargo payment rates diverge from cost rates making it impossible to make any profit after a certain number of years. 12:09:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Both are solved by stopping the inflation after 170 years; there is absolutely 12:09:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: no point in continueing the inflation after that as it only makes the game have 12:09:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: overflows at some point that cannot be solved; using larger variables only 12:09:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: delays the inevitable. 12:09:44 *** mikl [~mikl@0x55514de1.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: ...in the end, all that matters is your relation with God.] 12:12:34 *** Hendikins|BNE is now known as Hendikins 12:14:43 <Sionide> hmm 12:16:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FB17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:00 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-220-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:17 <Sionide> if i'm getting graphics glitches with stuff being able to go under bridges, should i make a bug report about it? 12:18:32 <Maedhros> there's already a bug about it iirc 12:18:58 * Sacro|Laptop had a genius plan when he was sleeping 12:19:14 * Sacro|Laptop attemps to implement it 12:19:20 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:21:16 <Sionide> Sacro|Laptop, what is it? :) 12:21:57 <Sacro|Laptop> Sionide: i do not wish to tell :) suffice to say, i probably won't be able to acheive it 12:23:03 <TrueBrain> so tell people and maybe they like it and to finish it :p 12:23:37 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 12:23:40 <Sacro|Laptop> i want to start it myself :( 12:24:10 <TrueBrain> and I wish my new DVD+R DL were in... 12:24:15 <TrueBrain> takes for ever to order them 12:24:33 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:27:05 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Are those a bit more affordable lately? 12:27:11 <TrueBrain> not in the NL 12:28:02 *** Digitalfox_Desktop_ [~Digitalfo@bl10-64-12.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:28:03 <TrueBrain> otherwise they are 2,50 per DVD 12:28:17 <TrueBrain> which is far less then 60 euro :p 12:28:37 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:03 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:38 *** Digitalfox_Desktop [~Digitalfo@bl7-182-39.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:51 *** Digitalfox_Desktop_ is now known as Digitalfox_Desktop 12:35:55 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 12:41:51 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:30 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought DL were more like 1EUR 12:53:39 <TrueBrain> hahaha 12:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> what? 12:54:27 <Noldo> plaah, it's raining 12:54:31 <TrueBrain> try finding them for 1 euro :p 12:54:37 <TrueBrain> (verbatim, that is) 12:54:45 <Sacro|Laptop> Noldo: yes... i'm getting worried about flooding 12:54:52 <Digitalfox_Desktop> It's a shame there aren't DL rewritable DVD's .. :( 12:54:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would it have to be verbatim? 12:55:09 <TrueBrain> because most others work poorly in my XBox :p 12:55:35 <Noldo> Sacro|Laptop: I'm not. There is so much lake area here that it would take quite a lot of rain for anything to flood 12:56:30 <Noldo> But it would nicer to cycle home if it didn't 12:57:27 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I actually got scamed with 10 ones ( didn't follow the development of DL and always thought there also DL Rewritable ..) So i bought 10 for 29EUR ( yes in portugal DL are expensive ) But SL are like 30 cents each.. 12:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, ebay says it has 20 for ~27EUR, but from USA ... 13:01:32 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> but there are a lot of cheaper brands... 13:02:12 <Digitalfox_Desktop> The problem is that mail shipping becomes expensive, if ordering for portugal. 13:02:51 <TrueBrain> I order in from Germany, around 26 euro for 10 13:03:01 <TrueBrain> still better than the 55 euro for 10 overhere :p 13:03:10 <Digitalfox_Desktop> And mail services are a little stupid.. Let's just say they have the habbit of losing a lot of stuff.. 13:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> 25 for 22,90EUR (from austria) 13:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> (not verbatim) 13:03:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10542 /trunk/src/video/ (null_v.cpp null_v.h): -Codechange: use class member instead of global variable for null ticks value 13:05:17 <TrueBrain> bah, I need to keep track of my routes in order to find a depot that is good enough... 13:05:27 <TrueBrain> AIs always get rapidly more complex 13:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> 50 for 70EUR (Platinum, although i once bought those and they don't work in my burner, only in my friend's burner) 13:06:07 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, are trains defined with a class... 13:06:14 <Sacro|Laptop> or do i need to rewrite a shedload of stuff 13:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, 10 for 8EUR... 13:09:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> and even from my city... 13:09:34 <Sacro|Laptop> http://www.b3ta.com/links/beer_beer_beer 13:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro|Laptop: i think stillunknown did something with trains and classes 13:10:18 <Sacro|Laptop> Eddi|zuHause3: hmm, might have to look into it 13:10:22 <TrueBrain> wow, I have an AI that only makes inner-city connections, and makes profit :) 13:10:46 <TrueBrain> it even manages the lines just fine :) 13:11:16 <TrueBrain> haha, 20 vehicles to serve one station :) 13:15:05 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-16.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:08 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:45 <TrueBrain> 34k pound RV income in 1 year 13:17:46 <TrueBrain> how nice 13:18:08 <TrueBrain> 61k in the second year :) 13:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> do you handle scaling by difficulty level? 13:20:31 <ln-> hmmmmm, a genuine copy of TTD ordered [x] 13:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> "10 things i want to do before my midlife crisis?" 13:21:05 <SmatZ> ln-: how? 13:21:47 <Sacro|Laptop> SmatZ: they are available 13:22:09 <Sacro|Laptop> i saw a copy for £2.99 in a second hand shop in town 13:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's what? ~5EUR? 13:22:48 <SmatZ> ah, second hand 13:22:58 <ln-> well, this is supposed to be a new one. 13:23:06 <ln-> amazon.co.uk 13:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> "new" as in "never used"? 13:24:54 <ln-> "new" as in "New & Sealed." 13:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> so "new" as in "i found this in a box of never sold items in the corner of my warehouse" 13:25:51 <ln-> yeah. 13:26:16 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A68F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:26:18 <TrueBrain> wow, my AI is still alive after 20 years 13:26:23 <SmatZ> Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Win95/98/ME) 13:26:23 <SmatZ> Still available as a budget title in the UK and US (Try Amazon's UK mail order web site - See link below) 13:26:23 <TrueBrain> with 100k pound RV income a year 13:30:31 <Sacro|Laptop> SmatZ: who is the publisher? 13:31:17 <Sacro|Laptop> mm, expensive 13:31:43 <Sacro|Laptop> errr... "Transport Tycoon And Transport Tycoon Deluxe Collection! Now On XP! 13:31:43 <Sacro|Laptop> by Atari " 13:31:48 <Sacro|Laptop> that sounds worrying 13:33:48 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:34:03 <peter1138> 14:23 < SmatZ> Transport Tycoon Deluxe (Win95/98/ME) 13:34:04 <peter1138> hhe 13:34:14 <peter1138> yay for the windows version :D 13:34:19 <Sacro|Laptop> i love the fact that the sponsored link is an abandonware site with the full download available 13:34:33 <Sacro|Laptop> zomg no it's not 13:34:40 <Sacro|Laptop> its classicgameingpresents 13:34:43 <Sacro|Laptop> not CGN D: 13:35:24 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm, and I wonder how they acheived XP compatability 13:36:11 <Sacro|Laptop> £4.99. do i risk it 13:36:15 <Sacro|Laptop> and would it be a legal copy 13:36:58 <Maedhros> ln-: just to let you know, that'll probably be the DOS version (if it's the same one I got from Amazon, at least) 13:37:13 <Sacro|Laptop> Maedhros: i think its the WIn one 13:38:01 <Sacro|Laptop> i'm sure Replay was windows 13:38:20 <Maedhros> replay, as in the people who tend to sell things in yellow packaging? 13:38:29 <Digitalfox_Desktop> " Transport Tycoon And Transport Tycoon Deluxe Collection! Now On XP! 13:38:30 <Digitalfox_Desktop> by Atari " but "Availability: This item is not in stock or has been discontinued." lol 13:38:35 <Maedhros> cos they sold me the dos version ;) 13:38:49 <Maedhros> which does work on 9x, btw 13:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i played the dos version on ME 13:39:49 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 13:41:11 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm 13:41:24 <Sacro|Laptop> someone here is selling Transport Giant as Transport Tycoon 13:42:58 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:13 <Sacro|Laptop> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Transport-Tycoon-TT-Deluxe-For-Win-XP_W0QQitemZ180138175311QQihZ008QQcategoryZ11053QQcmdZViewItem 13:43:16 <Sacro|Laptop> that looks suspect 13:43:44 <Sacro|Laptop> not only has he used JPEG not PNG, but its an OpenTTD screenshot 13:45:25 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:38 * peter1138 got TTDwin with Tycoon Collection 13:46:42 <peter1138> or something like that 13:46:56 <peter1138> had TTD, RCT and RT2 13:46:56 <Sacro|Laptop> should we do anything about people selling OpenTTD? 13:47:33 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:48:25 <Sacro|Laptop> hmm 13:48:37 <Sacro|Laptop> is it legal to sell a copied game so long as you state its not an original> 13:48:51 <lolman> Sacro|Laptop: no 13:49:11 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I think not.. About doing something.. Atari or CS may take that on the other way.. :\ 13:49:13 <Sacro|Laptop> well people are doing it on eBay 13:49:28 <Sacro|Laptop> with Transport Tycoon, and Pizza Tycoon 13:49:50 <lolman> Sacro|Laptop: selling copies is worse than buying them 13:50:04 <izhirahider> remember OpenTTD is licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2.0. 13:50:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10543 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIStationListCargoRating as valuator for a station list 13:50:05 <Sacro|Laptop> yes i know 13:50:24 <Sacro|Laptop> izhirahider: yes... so he has to produce source if i contact him? 13:51:22 <izhirahider> See the file 'COPYING' included with the source :) 13:51:30 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 13:51:33 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A68F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 13:52:04 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:47 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:55:32 <ln-> i'll let you know whether it was the dos version or not. 13:55:50 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 13:56:54 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:04:10 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has joined #openttd 14:05:11 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.] 14:05:41 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:45 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 14:13:37 <Mizipzor> to regain popularity in a town, can i erase all the trees around it and then rebuild them to make the town happy? 14:14:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10544 /branches/noai/ (13 files in 4 dirs): 14:14:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustryList to list industries 14:14:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustry::GetProduction, to get the production of a certain cargo of the industry 14:17:08 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Yes, that's what i do :) 14:17:19 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Offcourse theres also the bribe ;) 14:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> that should get fixed at some point 14:18:56 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:14 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Don't know how.. Since if you already have 0 points at local authority you can't get down more.. So by destroying more theres no penalization .. 14:19:47 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Only if the value becames negative, like -1000 14:20:25 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:21:55 *** JazzyJaffa [~JazzyJaff@85-211-133-195.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:22:12 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:27:01 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: I think it won't get fixed http://bugs.openttd.org/task/508 14:27:20 <SmatZ> and ... I like this behavior :) 14:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a cheat... 14:29:23 <izhirahider> Sacro|Laptop, yes, I think so 14:31:44 <TrueBrain> so, now I am bored :p 14:34:58 <alex__> i bribed a town that i moved tons and tons of dirt around 14:35:03 <alex__> and i needed to build a station near it 14:35:15 <alex__> so i bribed the town... to no effect :( 14:36:00 <Belugas> TrueBrain, maybe give a hand to Rubidium with the stringcodes of ttdpatch for newindustries? poor guy is running crazy on them :) 14:36:37 <Belugas> i thinkt that should quite occupy you! 14:37:00 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 14:37:03 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@212-182-130-7.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:02 <TrueBrain> I have no idea what stringcodes are :p 14:39:05 <Rubidium> think of it as {STRING} {NUM} etc 14:39:58 <TrueBrain> ah! How did they solve it? 14:40:07 <Rubidium> which read from a "stack" and there are like get word from stack and print a {NUM} and get byte from stack and print as {NUM} together with "rotate top 4 words on the stack" or "push word on stack" 14:41:37 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo 14:42:56 <Rubidium> which is *very* funny because some strings we must handle in our system, i.e. replace the "get word from stack and print as {NUM}" with just "get value from the dparams and print as {NUM}", but in other cases we need to emulate that TTDP stack as we get the (raw) data from a newgrf 14:43:58 <TrueBrain> ..... 14:44:00 <TrueBrain> good luck :p 14:44:05 <peter1138> we replaced the byte-based stack with int64s 14:44:16 <peter1138> (via int32 for most of history) 14:44:32 <Rubidium> peter1138: I know that, but callback 3A assumes the byte-based stack 14:44:39 <peter1138> yeah 14:44:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10545 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_industry.cpp ai_industry.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: GetProduction doesn't return a tile, but a value (tnx glx) 14:44:56 <peter1138> hmm 14:45:13 <peter1138> i guess you need to pre-parse the string to unpack the arguments, or something 14:46:40 <Rubidium> peter1138: but then... you've got a push word on stack 14:46:47 <peter1138> :o 14:46:51 <Rubidium> and you've got substrings that might push that word on the stack too 14:48:01 *** Osai^Kendo [~Osai@pD9EB4DCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^Kendo] 14:52:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10546 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1026]: you can now have both Available Train as Available Ship window open 15:01:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10547 /trunk/src/date.cpp: -Fix: when Cheat-Window is open and a new month happens, the window wasn't redrawn instantly 15:02:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10548 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1020]: don't segfault when you quit in the end-of-the-game screen 15:03:08 *** alex__ [~alexalex@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:00 *** alex__ [~alexalex@62-249-237-101.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10549 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1031]: wrong tram catenary poles drawn in some bridge directions. 15:19:45 *** Magus_X [abcde@200-180-188-92.paemt705.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: The 7 Deadly Sins: to the rescue! [www.t7ds.com.br]] 15:28:12 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:31:40 <alex__> when approx is the next version being released? 15:31:41 <alex__> :) 15:31:58 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:16 <peter1138> when it's ready 15:35:22 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:36:17 <alex__> ok 15:36:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> probably not this week :p 15:36:33 <alex__> what usually generates the new release? 15:36:49 <alex__> time? or the build up of code changes? 15:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> mood of the lead dev 15:39:54 <alex__> ah, ok :) 15:43:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> or pherhaps cosmic dust :) 15:52:31 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 15:52:50 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:17 *** mikegrb [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:18 *** mikegrb [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 15:59:45 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:19 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:00:42 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:01:22 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:38 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0D2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:03 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0ED5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:44 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-220-199.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:51 *** Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0D2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:13 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht_ 16:22:05 *** JazzyJaffa [~JazzyJaff@85-211-133-195.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß] 16:24:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host248-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 16:25:30 <Wolf01> hello 16:26:50 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 16:29:13 *** Maedhros_ [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:36 * Sacro|Laptop considers hacking apart the vehicle class 16:32:42 *** marc-andre [~marc-andr@88-137-147-231.adslgp.cegetel.net] has joined #openttd 16:33:23 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:13 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:35 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 16:39:58 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:42:50 <Mizipzor> is a upslope on a bridge easer on the train than a upslope on terrain? 16:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> why would it? 16:47:09 <Mizipzor> dunno, i friend is trying to convince me :p but i cant prove him wrong 16:47:41 *** JazzyJaffa [~JazzyJaff@85-211-133-195.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:53:08 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:50 <Belugas> Mizipzor, a bridge may have a speed limit, while the terrain will only slowdown because of the slope-tracting effort and so on 16:54:18 <Belugas> although, the "slope" of the bridgehead is certainly shorter then most terrain slopes ;) 16:54:31 <Mizipzor> Belugas, yea, but on an upslope, i guess a train will rarely slow down more due to the effect of the bridge than the slope 16:55:25 <SmatZ> Mizipzor: I did a test ... and in this test, bridges were better than hills 16:55:51 <Mizipzor> SmatZ, wierd... well i guess i was wrong then 16:56:29 <SmatZ> yes, weird... maybe my test was not that what you actually mean 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r10550 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt hungarian.txt slovak.txt traditional_chinese.txt): 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-13 18:55:52 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 3 fixed by Neonox (3) 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by miham (2) 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 6 fixed by lengyel (6) 16:56:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 fixed by xbddc (6) 16:57:06 <SmatZ> Mizipzor: http://88.146.45.107/ttd/bridge 16:57:16 <SmatZ> the trains started in the same moment 16:57:23 <SmatZ> and this is after some time 16:57:33 <SmatZ> maybe the difference is somewhere else 16:59:01 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 17:10:27 <Mizipzor> SmatZ, yes thats what i mean 17:12:48 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I just did the same in the screenshot in last nightly and after a while one of trains gains advantage over the other !! 17:17:37 <Digitalfox_Desktop> I always thought it was the same :\ 17:17:49 <Mizipzor> Digitalfox_Desktop, me to 17:18:22 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Wait.. I did test it some months ago and i'm pretty sure it was the same.. 17:18:34 <Digitalfox_Desktop> months or maybe years 17:21:54 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 17:30:51 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_ 17:31:50 <Phazorx> question what can be taking a lot of CPU power if all vehicles are stopepd? 17:32:29 <Rubidium> not all vehicles are actually stopped? 17:32:40 <Phazorx> well the been still for a while 17:32:44 <Phazorx> i can see it from money counter 17:32:52 <Phazorx> map has 5 cities and 5 industries 17:33:05 <Phazorx> taking 80% power of briantetas box now 17:33:12 <Phazorx> towns are huge tho 17:33:24 <Phazorx> so are amount of waiting pax at stations 17:33:25 <Rubidium> are you sure it's that instance of OTTD? 17:33:39 <Phazorx> Rubidium: Ammller looing at top atm 17:33:44 <Phazorx> i'll log in too i guess 17:34:27 *** DeGhosty [~c4command@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:28 <Wolf01> did you see the route planner patch in the forum?? really impressive 17:36:17 <Noldo> link? 17:36:19 <Rubidium> all he did was writing the appropriate cost calculation functions for YAPF and YAPF did the "real" work 17:36:33 <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=33054 17:36:34 <TrueBrain> still, it is a very nice idea :) 17:37:09 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 17:39:59 <Noldo> a bit like saying TCP is nothing it's IP doing all the work 17:43:54 <Rubidium> Noldo: no, TCP is (much) more than a "simple" cost calculation change 17:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> it could very well be an important step for AI development 17:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd suggest porting it to road and try to include it in the NoAI 17:51:47 <ln-> http://kapsi.fi/~anpurola/temp/1184318230469.jpg 17:52:37 <glx> how many of these are floating in the sea now? 17:53:00 <Rubidium> I wouldn't have stacked them that way 17:53:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:55:31 <Phazorx> Rubidium: are city tiles and chanhing them is a CPU killer ? 17:56:00 <peter1138> in english? 17:56:01 <Rubidium> don't know 17:56:18 <Phazorx> peter1138: current coopers ganme 17:56:34 <Phazorx> have 250 stopped trams and 200 stopped trains 17:56:43 <Phazorx> 5 towns 4 industries 17:56:51 <Phazorx> eats 70% CPU 17:57:41 <Rubidium> and when you pause it? 17:57:53 <Phazorx> some stations have 1 mil of passengers waiting though 17:58:02 <Phazorx> well lemme try but i'd assume 0 17:58:06 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7F76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:22 <peter1138> 1 mil o? 17:58:23 <peter1138> +f 17:58:25 <peter1138> heh 17:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> mil == thousand... 17:58:53 <skidd13> The internal x-axis is NW-SE and the y-axis NE-SW, is it? 17:58:57 <Phazorx> now, 980,000 17:59:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the other way round, skidd13 17:59:14 <peter1138> 1 million passengers. no 'of' and not 'mil' 17:59:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> x is from NE to SW 17:59:31 <Phazorx> when paused - 0 17:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> y is from NW to SE 17:59:40 <Phazorx> AP uses 0.3 tho 17:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> N being the top of the screen 18:00:35 <skidd13> N is clear but I wasn't sure wich axis is which. 18:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> take your right hand (thumb=x, index=y, middle=z) 18:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> turn it so that z is up, x is towards your left, y is towards your right 18:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> most 3D coordinate systems follow the right hand rule 18:03:33 <skidd13> I know this rule, but wasn't sure cause then the land info tooltip shows x on 2nd pos. :) 18:03:58 <Phazorx> so ince again what can put such stress on CPU when nothing is mvoing ? 18:05:29 <peter1138> loads of things 18:05:49 <peter1138> cargo arriving at a station can cause the station to be redrawn, for example 18:06:29 <peter1138> skidd13: no, X is first pos on land area info 18:07:03 <Phazorx> train are not moving, so cargo arrives only local and stations are packed for a while already is there sprite animation that differencistaes 990000 and 1000000 ? 18:07:49 <peter1138> we don't do station sprite animation 18:09:01 <Phazorx> "we" ? 18:09:07 <peter1138> ottd 18:09:27 <Phazorx> well i kinda assumed that grfs can only use features that are available in engine 18:09:39 <Phazorx> regardless most stations are kisyt default ones ratehr than fancy 18:09:52 <peter1138> kisyt? 18:09:53 <Phazorx> so they dont have that much of animation capacity 18:10:02 <Phazorx> "just default" 18:10:28 <Phazorx> there are 113 RR stations there though 18:10:29 <peter1138> when using the default stations only, it is not redrawn 18:10:41 <peter1138> (that is per station) 18:10:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10551 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/api/squirrel_export.awk squirrel_helper.hpp): [NoAI] -Add: added SQ support for "void *" 18:11:06 <Phazorx> i understand so most liktley since it is not being done can not use 70% CPU 18:11:07 <Ammller> peter1138: town itself? 18:11:52 <peter1138> well 18:11:56 <peter1138> why don't you profile it? 18:12:22 <Ammller> there are much houses on the map, about 1Miil habitants 18:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause3> Phazorx: animation != changing on special occasion 18:13:26 *** marc-andre [~marc-andr@88-137-147-231.adslgp.cegetel.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:14:18 <peter1138> although it (when we support it) is triggered only certain events 18:14:50 *** h3lb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 18:15:25 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Quit: Logout] 18:16:09 *** h3lb is now known as helb 18:20:38 <Phazorx> i'll profile the save i guess 18:21:08 <Phazorx> but i forgot config option for that... 18:23:29 <skidd13> Hmm, now after fixing the axis of my code it sucks less but only the west-side is treated right. Damn. Does the command CMD_BUILD_ROAD optimise it's input? 18:41:45 <Phazorx> grrr.. what config flag i need for profiling ? 18:41:51 *** Kyjo [lbmlkthpjf@nezmar.netlab.cz] has joined #openttd 18:43:47 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:45:09 <Tlustoch> Can someone tell me how is the price calculated? Stations distance or squares passed by the vehicle? 18:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> Tlustoch: station distance (manhattan) 18:47:15 *** NukeBuster [~opera@195-241-212-152.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 18:47:27 <Tlustoch> So going from upper corner to down corner is the biggest distance = highest price? 18:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, something like that 18:50:43 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387CA3A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:16 <JazzyJaffa> Wolf01: Thanks for the comment on the route planner, it works ok when you have bags of ram and don't mind waiting as a single player, but I don't think its ready for AI! 18:54:17 <JazzyJaffa> YAPF is doing most of the work as Rubidium says, for something usable you'd need to do a lot more work 18:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's probably similar to the ship pathfinding, there are too many options 18:57:11 <JazzyJaffa> Indeed, you get millions of options 18:57:51 <JazzyJaffa> BTW Would YAPF for ships be viable if the whole route was cached? 18:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, it would probably reduce load very much if pathfinder is not called on every tile 18:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> but on every change of a water tile you have to clear all caches and recalculate 19:00:26 <JazzyJaffa> Only on an add of a water tile 19:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, also if the path is blocked by raising land 19:01:00 <JazzyJaffa> For loss of water you could check if the ship passed through (pretty rare) 19:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but you have to check all ships and all future tiles of each ship 19:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> and see if it matches the tile(s) you changed 19:02:06 <JazzyJaffa> and for an add of water you would only need to check if the new tile had >1 water neighbours 19:02:49 <Eddi|zuHause3> you usually have 2 water neighbours 19:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> there are two possible ways to solve the ship issue 19:04:26 <JazzyJaffa> ah ha! i think you can get round that - I need to draw it out 19:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> a) implement ship routes between buoys, ships can only travel along those routes 19:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> b) find a region based pathfinder, that can handle large numbers of equivalent routes 19:05:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> (squares of water) 19:06:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10552 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1034, r10546]: opening Available Aircrafts segfaulted 19:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> of course regions are easier to find on water than on land (for track building), so it might not help much there 19:07:57 <skidd13> What about nature examples for the pathfinder? I remember something like that from my technical material lessons. The "Gummibandmodell" for dislocation movements in a crystalline structure. 19:08:36 <JazzyJaffa> I think this works: You remember each new water tile since last re-calc and only recalc if the new water tile has 1> "old water" tiles 19:08:57 <JazzyJaffa> thats the only case where a shorter route could be made 19:09:25 <JazzyJaffa> opps >1 19:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i said, flooding usually has "diagonal" edges, so most new water tiles have 2 old water tiles next to them 19:12:55 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7F76.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 19:12:55 <glx> [20:42:02] <Phazorx> grrr.. what config flag i need for profiling ? <-- configure --enable-profiling 19:13:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10553 /branches/noai/ (11 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added a framework for AIPathFinder() and implemented a really stupid AIPathFinderStupid() 19:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you can try to optimise pathfinding by doing an approximate search first for intermediate points (like distance ~3 tiles), and then only calculate 19:13:51 <Phazorx> glx: thanks 19:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> path between the intermediate tiles 19:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you loose accuracy there 19:14:09 <Phazorx> i got that part already tho - running game with -D will do 1000 tiicks right ? 19:14:30 <Rubidium> no, it will start the dedicated server 19:14:36 <glx> no -v null does that 19:14:55 <glx> and it's configurable no 19:14:57 <Phazorx> ahh good thanks 19:15:00 <glx> *now 19:15:13 <Phazorx> "now" ? 19:15:32 <Rubidium> yes, since a few revs 19:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> what i mean, if you have a spot (x0,y0) and a spot (xend,yend), you choose a spot in [x0-delta,x0+delta]x[y0-delta,y0+delta] that is nearest to the target 19:16:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> then calculate a route 19:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> and move on from there 19:16:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: that is the worst kind of pathfinding you can do 19:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> lower delta means less accuracy and for large detours you do not find existing routes anymore 19:18:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i said it is not really optimal 19:18:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: the strength of pathfinding is that is finds non-trivial paths that are cheapests and setting some waypoint in exactly the middle between two places can make it the worst possible route 19:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can reduce load that way 19:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can also try it differently, calculate a cost for each spot in [x0-delta,x0+delta]x[y0-delta,y0+delta] depending on the basic cost and the distance to travel, then choose the best spot out of those 19:23:14 <Phazorx> hmm... is it normal that profiling too like 3 sek ? 19:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> works best if you do that from both ends 19:23:48 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: just use A* 19:24:16 <TrueBrain> basicly comes down to the same, only a bit more clever and less CPU-intensive 19:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: but we already use A*, it is too intensive 19:24:33 <TrueBrain> is it really? :) 19:24:36 <TrueBrain> depends on the job 19:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> it is fine for rail networks 19:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> but not for lakes, or trackbuilding, where you have too many options 19:25:33 <TrueBrain> it for example works best for AI pathfinding 19:25:45 <TrueBrain> but what you describe is very close to A*, just A* takes less CPU then you method :) 19:25:57 <Phazorx> weird... it take 50% CPU if running but profiling is extrimly quick 19:26:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: YAPF is A* on steroids 19:27:00 <TrueBrain> yup 19:27:05 <TrueBrain> most of all: segment caching 19:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> one could try to build up caching information for the map 19:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> the problem is, water or clear land has no segments to cache 19:28:05 <Phazorx> profile run in 1.22 sek :/ anyway that's the one that hogs Brianetta's server now... anyone feel like taking a loook at it ? 19:28:26 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: 'profile run in ..'... it very much depends on how you run your profile 19:28:40 <TrueBrain> there is not one prototype for that, so you are a bit vague to me 19:28:52 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: openttd -vnull -G profile.sav 19:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> so to find a path from A to B on the map requires you to search almost the entire map, not just the tiles between A and B 19:28:59 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: run -vnull:ticks=10000 19:29:01 <TrueBrain> or something 19:29:03 <Phazorx> http://paste.openttd.org/171 19:29:04 <TrueBrain> make sure it runs for 30+ seconds 19:29:19 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: why? 19:29:43 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:30:02 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: as long as md5_process is in your top5, you didn't run the profiling long enough 19:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> TrueBrain: imagine A and B in opposite corners of the map, map almost completely water 19:30:10 <TrueBrain> (it is an initializiation function) 19:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> just a straigt bit of land in the middle blocking the path 19:30:40 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause3: of course there are extremum, but for example A* ignores on average 98.6% of the map 19:30:50 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: i figured there was soemthing fishy about it 19:31:01 <TrueBrain> (of course it happens that it scane 100% of the map, but mostly it is pretty fast ;)) 19:31:07 <Rubidium> Phazorx: -G ? 19:31:19 <Phazorx> -g 19:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the real problems start when there is no path 19:31:50 <TrueBrain> yup 19:32:02 <TrueBrain> but that is a problem for any pathfinder of any kind :) 19:32:19 <TrueBrain> for it to be 100% sure there is no path, it needs to check all tiles in some cases 19:32:30 <TrueBrain> no, never 100% 19:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> but you could build up a cache of connected components at the beginning of the game 19:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> updates of that cache should usually be local 19:32:59 <TrueBrain> at least 4 tiles aren't checked, as they block the route to the place (a corner tile blocked with what ever) 19:33:15 *** Mizipzor_ [~Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has joined #openttd 19:33:18 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i imagine that a check of connected components are quite common for AI, especially on island games 19:39:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> it will get really funny if you also consider wormholes (bridges, tunnels), because the graph gets non-planar then :) 19:39:59 *** Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 19:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause3> i.e. neighbours of a tile are not only the immediate neighbours (4 usually) but also all tiles you could build a bridge or tunnel to 19:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> and an extreme dimension if you also consider terraforming 19:44:27 <Phazorx> well.. MD5 is not moving further away than 6th spot :( 19:45:29 *** Mizipzor_ [~Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:40 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has joined #openttd 19:45:48 <TrueBrain> Phazorx: which isn't top5 ;) 19:45:53 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 19:46:06 <Phazorx> TrueBrain: still means sometihng is not right 19:46:18 <Phazorx> and i can make it recognize 10000 but not 30000 19:46:24 <Phazorx> since both take 15 sek 19:46:29 <glx> what is first in your profile? 19:46:34 <Phazorx> wait a sek 19:46:38 <Phazorx> it was 1000 only 19:46:53 <Phazorx> -v null:ticks=30000 19:47:02 <Phazorx> for 532 is that supposed to work ? 19:47:10 <Phazorx> 52.48 7.72 7.72 54139 0.00 0.00 CargoList::InvalidateCache() 19:47:12 <Phazorx> 1st 19:47:20 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-141-224-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 19:47:21 <glx> introduced in r10537 19:47:34 <Phazorx> how can i profile more than 1000 before that ? 19:47:45 <TrueBrain> modify source; easier to upgrade 19:48:00 <TrueBrain> @calc 7.72 / 54139 19:48:01 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.000142595910527 19:48:04 <Phazorx> hmm... an issue my appear differently there but i'll svn up anwyay 19:48:04 <TrueBrain> @calc 7.72 / 54139 * 1000 19:48:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.142595910527 19:48:10 <TrueBrain> 14 msec per call 19:50:13 <Phazorx> all vehicles are stopped btw 19:50:21 <Phazorx> so report will be strange by default 19:55:02 <SmatZ> I wish I could buy time ... for a reasonable price :) 19:55:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10554 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Codechange: allow classes with virtual functions to still export their enums. 19:55:37 <Rubidium> SmatZ: go to the US and shoot a cop, then you'll get "time" for free 19:55:59 <TrueBrain> "free"? :) 19:56:04 <TrueBrain> that also depends on your point of view of course 19:56:08 <TrueBrain> a weapon, bullet, flight... 19:56:21 <Phazorx> http://paste.openttd.org/172 19:56:45 <Phazorx> i recon it is 4 million pax waiting 19:57:03 <TrueBrain> @calc 50.26 / 172878 19:57:03 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.000290725251333 19:57:05 <TrueBrain> @calc 50.26 / 172878 * 1000 19:57:06 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.290725251333 19:57:18 <TrueBrain> 29msec... it is getting more the longer you run? :p 19:57:27 <Phazorx> "it" ? 19:57:43 <TrueBrain> InvalidateCache 19:57:46 <TrueBrain> but I guess that is for Rubidium :p 19:58:04 <Phazorx> hmm... what is it caching ? 19:58:09 <SmatZ> Rubidium: not exactly what I want :( 19:58:16 <Rubidium> for example the return value of CargoList::Count() const 19:59:15 <Belugas> [15:57] <Rubidium> SmatZ: go to the US and shoot a cop, then you'll get "time" for free <--- pay attention on which state you'll do that. You may find eternity instead of some free time;) 19:59:15 <Rubidium> Phazorx: and you've got a gazillion of cargo packets and it's increasing fast 19:59:41 <Phazorx> Rubidium: so i read it as "more cargo waiting" slower it runs ? 19:59:44 <Rubidium> the "only" solution is capping the amount of cargo packets per list 19:59:48 <Rubidium> Phazorx: yes 19:59:55 <Rubidium> so it must be capped somewhere 20:00:00 <Phazorx> capped? 20:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> limited 20:00:17 <Rubidium> like max waiting cargo = 25000 pieces or so 20:00:44 <Phazorx> well i tihnk it would be better if soemone would care about exporting these goods rather than accumulatiing 20:00:48 <Phazorx> kidna the game point there 20:01:34 <Rubidium> then start doing so, otherwise the game will become even more slow 20:01:40 <TrueBrain> lol 20:01:43 <TrueBrain> that is the penality to pay 20:01:50 <TrueBrain> get the cargo out of there, or the game becomes REALLY slow :p 20:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> haha :p 20:02:03 <TrueBrain> (giving you more time to get the cargo out of there? :p) 20:02:12 <TrueBrain> we should make a button: trash cargo 20:02:16 <TrueBrain> where you can trash cargo of a station 20:02:36 <Rubidium> *but* this means that someone can trash a server by building a station that only accumulates cargo 20:02:48 <TrueBrain> capping sounds like a good idea :) 20:03:02 <SmatZ> Rubidium: not exactly what I want :( 20:03:07 <SmatZ> errr sorry 20:03:12 <SmatZ> bad window 20:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, freight stations need warehouses for waiting cargo 20:03:26 <TrueBrain> make the cap-amount a patch option :) 20:03:33 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i tihnk this will be rectiofied in a different manner with new industries 20:03:38 <Phazorx> where you have stockpile caps ? 20:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> you can have small/medium/big warehouses for 1000/5000/20000 cargo 20:04:00 <Rubidium> a big warehouse of passengers 20:04:05 <Rubidium> hahaha ;) 20:04:06 <TrueBrain> :) Lol! 20:04:12 <TrueBrain> stocked :) 20:04:23 <Rubidium> 'cause Phazorx' game is almost completely passenger based 20:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> those are called "waiting halls" :p 20:04:36 <TrueBrain> let them die when they wait too long 20:04:48 <SmatZ> :-D 20:04:49 <Phazorx> it;s not almost 20:04:51 <Phazorx> it is completely 20:04:57 <Phazorx> there are 4 industries on the map 20:05:00 <Phazorx> and that are untouched 20:05:18 <Rubidium> hmm 20:05:40 <Phazorx> it looks nice tho 20:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> i always suggested additional non-track station buildings 20:05:53 <Phazorx> 5 towns, totla pop 1.5M :) 20:06:00 <Rubidium> I think we should make the "cargo dissappear from stations" function in such a manner that after a certain amount of cargo the amount that disappears increases exponentially or so 20:06:17 <Phazorx> Rubidium: with seevere rating and authorities penalty 20:06:20 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: do cargo packets keep track how long cargo is waiting? 20:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause3> like water refill sections for steam engines (can only travel limited amount of tiles without reaching a refill station) 20:06:28 <Rubidium> not on stations 20:06:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: maybe we should, and kill cargo that stays too long (with a chance of course) 20:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> or transformator stations, which can support x electric engines in the region 20:07:00 <SmatZ> cargo packets are being merged to reduce their number (afaik) 20:07:25 <Rubidium> SmatZ: yes, but till a max size of 65535 "items" per packet 20:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> SmatZ: each cargo packet can only hold 32k cargo 20:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> if he has 1M waiting that will not help 20:08:05 <SmatZ> yes, that's true - but it is the reason why cargo won't age ... only groups of 32/64k of cargo 20:08:28 <SmatZ> then, let die all of 32/64k passangers at once... :-x 20:08:29 <TrueBrain> changing that is very simple of course 20:09:20 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: won't it lead in hundreds of thousands cargo packets, each with 1-5 passangers? 20:09:51 <TrueBrain> possible, yes 20:09:55 <TrueBrain> but most likely it won't 20:10:02 <SmatZ> well, they can die slowly... like the radioactive things do 20:10:04 <TrueBrain> you can for example merge packets in groups of 5 days 20:10:06 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:10:18 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has joined #openttd 20:10:28 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: would mean adding another variable to the packets 20:10:33 <TrueBrain> true 20:11:04 <Rubidium> I'd say to just trash exponentially more cargo *after* a certain threshold 20:11:14 <SmatZ> yes 20:11:19 <TrueBrain> fine by me :p 20:11:56 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:12:12 <Rubidium> though I don't have an idea for that threshold and the rate; could also be linear I guess 20:13:10 <Rubidium> 25 000 and then trash 1 for every two "entities" above that and cap it at 100 000? 20:13:23 <SmatZ> maybe for every 10000 of the same cargo divide any further incoming cargo by 2 ? 20:13:44 <SmatZ> eg. incoming_cargo >>= (waiting_cargo >> 13) 20:14:56 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D12.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 20:14:57 <Rubidium> seems fairly efficient to me 20:15:27 *** Wolfensteijn [~Wolfenste@77.250.19.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:19 <Rubidium> hmm, that method kinda sucks though 20:16:54 <Rubidium> doing that on unloading/transfers makes that code more complex and places the code in two places 20:18:28 <Rubidium> unless 20:18:40 <SmatZ> well it could be if (incoming->from == here) incoming >>= ... 20:19:10 <Rubidium> yes, but then you still get the same problem 20:19:29 <Rubidium> with unloading vehicles you can still flood the station and slow down the game considerably 20:20:43 <SmatZ> on one hand you do not want to remove stuff while it is on loading/unloading station, on the other you know it may be used to slow down the game when done intentionally 20:21:20 <SmatZ> it is hard to decide :( 20:22:42 <SmatZ> including aging for cargo packets would mean calling some procedure for all the cargo packets every tick/day ... 20:23:07 <SmatZ> I don't know anything about it, so I won't speak about it :) sorry 20:24:21 <Rubidium> yes, but the current "age" of packets doesn't tell anything about the time at the station 20:30:37 *** NW|Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:36:13 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:37:26 <Rubidium> http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/truncate_cargo.diff <- something like this should suffice I guess 20:37:59 *** Peakki [antti@cs181000195.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:40:03 <SmatZ> Rubidium: the << and / operator priority may surprise you :) 20:40:22 <TrueBrain> it is a const, not a define 20:40:37 * SmatZ says sorry 20:40:41 <TrueBrain> :) 20:40:45 <Rubidium> SmatZ: *if* it does then there is something horribly wrong with C++ 20:41:20 <SmatZ> sorry I am really used to name only #define in uppercase :) 20:41:38 <TrueBrain> it is a bit confusing yes 20:41:47 <TrueBrain> enums would be more in place for uppercase :) 20:47:10 <Rubidium> Phazorx: your game should run much better with r10555 ;) 20:47:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r10555 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange/Fix: add a soft limit of 4096 "entities" in a station's waiting queue and a hard limit of 32768 so (malicious) people cannot cause a "denial of service" attack by filling cargo lists. 20:47:54 *** iPandaMojo [~panda@c-67-183-216-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:08 <SmatZ> well I would reather see that 'difference >>= difference >> 13' as it is progressive 20:48:45 <Rubidium> SmatZ: so is this 20:48:53 <SmatZ> I just had some though and won't let it go :D 20:49:53 <Mizipzor> omg... there are apparently people who refuse to use msn and still only uses icq... :S didnt see that one coming 20:50:09 <SmatZ> is it? it just removes 1/64 of everything over 4096, doesn't it? 20:50:58 <Rubidium> difference / 64 20:51:09 <SmatZ> yes yes :) 20:51:13 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:54:09 <Rubidium> difference >>= difference >> 13 gives 8191 -> 8191, 8192 -> 4096 (or am I missing something?) 20:55:10 <Rubidium> and 16383 -> 8191, 16384 -> 4096 21:01:36 <SmatZ> no you are absolutelly right 21:02:49 <SmatZ> today it is not my day at all 21:04:19 <Belugas> Today is not my day anymore 21:04:21 <Belugas> it is the weekend 21:04:24 <Belugas> bye guys 21:04:33 <SmatZ> bye 21:04:57 <Eddi|zuHause3> Mizipzor: you might find that having "microsoft" in the name often drives people away from that product, especially people with an IT background 21:06:04 <Mizipzor> Eddi|zuHause3, hmm... maybe... hehe 21:07:46 <Rubidium> Mizipzor: I refuse to use both msn and icq ;) 21:08:14 <Mizipzor> Rubidium, what do you use for im purposes then? only irc? 21:09:03 <Rubidium> that or face-to-face (i.e. IRL) 21:09:23 <Rubidium> not really im though 21:09:57 <Rubidium> anyway, the problem with especially msn is that it doesn't have a proper cli-client 21:10:18 <glx> it's not made for cli 21:10:18 <Rubidium> and I don't know people who use icq 21:13:15 <Rubidium> (or don't know they are using it) 21:13:47 *** Digz [~dutchusa@cpe-66-74-155-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:53 *** Digz is now known as Maarten 21:14:33 <Maarten> ah here is the openttd channel :) 21:14:52 <DaleStan> Rubidium: Does Finch not do what you want? I know it can talk to MSN. 21:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> trouble using your client? 21:15:36 <Rubidium> DaleStan: never heard of it 21:16:17 <DaleStan> My understanding is that it's the text-mode version of Pidgin (which used to be called Gaim) 21:20:52 *** Zr40 [~zr40@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 21:36:27 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:59 *** Mizipzor_ [~Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has joined #openttd 21:41:05 *** Osai^Kendo [~Osai@pD9EB5924.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:41 <TrueBrain> Wolf01|AWAY: how is lego going? 21:44:38 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@camembert.byh.bth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:46 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:36 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 21:48:35 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:50:33 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 21:50:33 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:55 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 21:51:19 <Wolf01> i'm thinking about the roads 21:51:36 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 21:58:38 *** ja [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 21:58:38 *** hrada [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:54 *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai 22:02:10 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has joined #openttd 22:02:10 *** ja [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:16 *** ufoun [~ty@85.207.18.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:32 *** thgergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D12.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [] 22:16:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> you should not have bumps on the road 22:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> only next to the road 22:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> and you should align trees to the bumps :) 22:18:57 <Wolf01> i'll make the roads like these: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=98473 22:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i remember that lego roads were grey 22:20:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> not black 22:20:47 <Ailure> heh 22:20:48 <Wolf01> these are built by little pieces 22:20:51 <Ailure> I found something funny 22:20:58 <Ailure> if you use newGRF's on your titlescreen 22:21:02 <Ailure> and change newGRF settings 22:21:11 <Ailure> everything defaults to orginal graphics 22:21:21 <Ailure> which means that some trains get stuck as their engine is replaced by a wagon 22:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause3> what do you mean by changing newgrfs of the title? 22:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean that newgrf changes from the menu affect the title screen game? 22:22:56 <Digitalfox_Desktop> TT Forums are down.. maintenance :( 22:23:25 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:23 <Rubidium> maybe it becomes faster ;) 22:26:12 <Digitalfox_Desktop> Lets hope so :) But actually i don't notice a lot of slow down in TT Forums.. Actually are one of the fastest forums i go to.. :) 22:26:38 <TrueBrain> might be the hardware pumping behind it :p 22:27:30 <glx> Ailure: yes it's because action F grfs 22:27:43 <Thomas[NL]> it gets migrated to PHPBB3 22:28:50 <glx> they need to be always initialised so all other grfs are initialised too (but not fully loaded) and that removes all grfs that could be in title screen 22:30:28 <DaleStan> Indeed. Well, pbpBB 3 rc3, AIUI. 22:32:58 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:29 <Ailure> ah 22:33:34 <Ailure> well it's only a minor annoyance 22:33:48 <Ailure> it only happens when I mess with the newGRF settings, and that's rarely. :) 22:34:37 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 22:35:03 <Digitalfox_Desktop> phpbb v3 has a lot of new features and changes, so would i love to see it in forums that use v2 :) 22:36:01 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 22:38:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:10 <Digitalfox_Desktop> If anyone wants to see what's new and changed in v3 http://area51.phpbb.com/docs/features.html 22:42:25 *** Tobin [~tobin@c58-107-50-36.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:44:33 *** Thomas[NL] [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:27 <Wolf01> 'night 22:45:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host248-236-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:49:16 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:44 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:59:11 *** Maedhros_ [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:14 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:40 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:05:34 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB5924.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 23:07:43 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B76428.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:52 *** JazzyJaffa [~JazzyJaff@85-211-133-195.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r10556 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs): 23:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIAirport, which can build an airport 23:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added FindBestAircraft in AIVehicle 23:18:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: finished all AIVehicle commands for non-RVs 23:19:57 <TrueBrain> tada! Now people can make profitable airlines in their AI! 23:19:58 <TrueBrain> joy joy! 23:21:41 <SmatZ> good work :) I am really looking forward for some playable AI competitors ;) 23:22:09 <TrueBrain> create one ;) 23:23:14 <SmatZ> there are already some projects ... or at least were, so I hope they are still in development :) 23:24:41 <Ailure> ok 23:24:44 <Ailure> this is odd 23:24:50 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: so do I :) 23:24:54 <Ailure> I have a rather long bridge 23:25:06 <Ailure> sometimes thye signals ignore the train on the bridge 23:25:11 <SmatZ> :-) developing AI seems very hard... 23:25:12 <Ailure> resulted just into a crash now 23:25:21 <TrueBrain> it aint easy, that's for sure 23:25:34 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@vetrnik.koleje.cuni.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:25:34 <TrueBrain> Ailure: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1030 23:25:39 <SmatZ> Ailure: it is a known bug sorry :( http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1030 23:25:52 <Ailure> ok 23:26:09 <SmatZ> the patch might solve the problem, but peter is probably doing some revision of the code 23:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> wasn't there some "vehicles could not crash on bridges" commit recently? 23:26:43 <TrueBrain> night all 23:26:47 <Ailure> hmm 23:27:00 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: it is a different problem 23:27:05 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: night 23:27:15 <Ailure> heh 23:27:18 <Ailure> now it happened again 23:27:20 <Ailure> oh well 23:27:24 <Ailure> at least I work around the problem 23:27:26 <SmatZ> even with the patch? 23:27:28 <Ailure> by making that bridge one way 23:27:33 <Ailure> risky, but eh 23:27:41 <Ailure> the trains runs on the same speed 23:27:45 <Ailure> it shouldn't cause a crash 23:27:47 <Ailure> and breakdowns are off 23:27:51 <SmatZ> :-) 23:28:17 <Belugas> ho... DaleStan is back ! Welcome back among us Dalestan :) 23:28:26 <SmatZ> ho ho ho! :) 23:29:11 <DaleStan> Thanks. 23:34:42 <Ailure> I love when that happens 23:34:47 <Ailure> now the bug is purely beneficial :) 23:34:50 <Ailure> (it's a long bridge) 23:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> lmao :p 23:37:32 <Sacro|Laptop> minilzo.c:575: error: static declaration of '__lzo_copyright' follows non-static declaration 23:37:32 <Sacro|Laptop> minilzo.c:270: error: previous 23:38:57 <Rubidium> Sacro|Laptop: you broke it 23:39:07 <Sacro|Laptop> Rubidium: i touched nothing 23:39:27 <Rubidium> no... and then it becomes magically static 23:39:55 <Rubidium> and the line numbers are off-by-a-lot 23:40:38 <Sacro|Laptop> i simply checked out r1 and typed make 23:42:25 * Sacro|Laptop posts a bug report 23:46:44 <SmatZ> Sacro|Laptop: are you posting a bug report for r1 ? :D 23:47:09 <Sacro|Laptop> SmatZ: i think i should 23:48:09 <SmatZ> it will be closed immediatelly - already fixed or invalid... 23:48:31 <Sacro|Laptop> D: no fun 23:48:35 <SmatZ> :) 23:49:57 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:40 *** Ammller is now known as Ammler 23:56:46 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:59:54 *** Sacro|Mobile [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:59:54 *** Sacro|Laptop [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust323.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]