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00:04:46 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:04 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:17 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 00:26:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CFAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:05 *** MrBrrr [~chatzilla@bas3-montreal02-1096688331.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]] 00:29:00 <glx> Ammller: I found the problem :) 00:32:34 *** Rafagd [~kvirc@BHE200150044021.res-com.wayinternet.com.br] has joined #openttd 00:37:49 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host81-157-74-20.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:37:50 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host81-157-74-20.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:22 *** bruce89 [~bruce@85-210-140-201.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 00:41:27 *** bruce89 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*** G_ [~njones@202-154-152-221.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 10:18:22 *** G [~njones@202-154-152-221.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:17 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:34 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 10:27:39 *** dihedral [~dihedral@141.72.197.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:03 <TrueBrain> morning all 10:37:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> you missed the "good" ;) 10:37:44 <TrueBrain> why would it be good? 10:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, technically, it's monday morning, it can't be good ;) 10:37:49 <TrueBrain> they started redecorating nextdoor 10:37:53 <TrueBrain> at 730 in the morning.. 10:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm sure that is fun :p 10:40:49 *** Kommer [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:19 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:52 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-130-44.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:50:08 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-130-44.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:11:28 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:51 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-63.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 11:20:28 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 11:20:52 *** Kommer [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 11:24:09 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-203-4.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:26:03 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-203-4.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:26:36 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-203-4.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:42:10 *** mikk36|work [~mikk36@ntsrv.lakrito.ee] has joined #openttd 11:42:11 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:42:16 <mikk36|work> hey :) 11:42:25 <mikk36|work> does UKRS work in desert ? 11:43:26 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-75.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 11:44:09 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80A66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E14D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:45:08 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host81-157-74-20.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:11 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-63.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:52 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80DAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:45:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:49:00 <Ammler> mikk36|work: look for UKRS in the sun 11:49:08 <mikk36|work> sun ? 11:49:09 <Ammler> should be available on Pikkas Wikki 11:49:24 <Ammler> yes,its a modded ukrs for tropical 11:49:48 <mikk36|work> a search for pikkas wikki gives me nothing :) 11:50:00 <mikk36|work> aha, pikkawiki 11:50:03 <Ammler> yes 11:50:57 <mikk36|work> and do i have to remove normal ukrs from the gcf list ? 11:52:02 <Ammler> I think so, but you will see it fast ;) 11:52:10 <mikk36|work> hm, ok 11:54:29 <mikk36|work> and what about that "add-ons" grf ? 11:54:43 <Ammler> hmm, should work, I guess 11:55:21 <mikk36|work> what about the parameters for that "in the sun" ? 11:55:24 <mikk36|work> same 0 3 0 ? 11:55:28 <mikk36|work> or just default is enough ? 11:55:40 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 11:55:47 <mikk36|work> aha, default is ok :) 11:56:23 <mikk36|work> no more questions then :) 11:59:19 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has joined #openttd 11:59:23 <Ammler> :) 12:01:45 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has quit [] 12:02:18 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:42 <mikk36|work> hmm 12:02:53 <mikk36|work> one problem still remains in the nightly 12:02:57 <mikk36|work> at least in 11368 12:03:06 <mikk36|work> add grf window won't stay in the middle 12:03:20 <mikk36|work> and if i drag the window too small, i can't close it any more 12:03:30 <mikk36|work> cause the x button is not visible any more 12:08:32 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has joined #openttd 12:10:14 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:11:18 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:16:45 *** dihedral [~dihedral@141.72.197.130] has joined #openttd 12:16:55 *** dihedral [~dihedral@141.72.197.130] has left #openttd [] 12:16:57 *** dihedral [~dihedral@141.72.197.130] has joined #openttd 12:19:04 *** Tino|R152 [~tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #openttd 12:22:30 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:36 <Ailure> hmm 12:23:41 <Ailure> what's the IP of tt-forums 12:23:43 <Ailure> my DNS is borken 12:24:34 <exe> 81.171.98.112 12:24:44 <Ailure> ok, thank you :) 12:26:56 <Ammler> omg 12:29:28 <shodan> ! 12:36:19 <mikk36|work> question: why is Available vehicles button greyed out for spectators ? 12:36:42 <Ailure> hmm 12:36:50 <Ailure> and the one for openTTD? 12:36:53 <Ailure> XD 12:36:58 <Ailure> I need to get a alternate DNS at this point 12:36:59 <mikk36|work> or, there is no button at all :P 12:37:13 <mikk36|work> i'd like to see that button though :) 12:37:23 <Ailure> oh 12:37:28 <Ailure> I think that's a coding leftover 12:37:30 <mikk36|work> so i don't have to be a player to see the train elements info etc 12:37:33 <Ailure> from when that was a "create vehicle" button 12:37:47 <Ailure> it was replaced by something 12:37:57 <Ailure> then people wanted it back and it came back as avaible vehicles 12:38:41 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:39:56 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:53:48 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 12:55:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:11:52 *** dihedral [~dihedral@141.72.197.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:14:22 *** mst [~mst@88-199-33-137.tktelekom.pl] has joined #openttd 13:19:46 <mst> Hey. I have a problem. I have developed monrail in TTD so I wanted to change old railways to new one. OK - done. But when new train reach one station it is stoped there and have no option to move to another (though plan). What should I do? 13:20:28 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:37 <Ammler> send them to depot -> sell it -> buy on monorail depot a new train 13:21:18 <mst> I did it 13:21:35 <Ammler> ok, well done :) 13:21:35 <mst> I have three station - A, B, C 13:21:51 <mst> Not exactely 13:22:05 <mst> One train: A - B 13:22:12 <mst> Second: A - B - C 13:22:56 <mst> When the first (or second; whatever) reach one station i have to send to depot and then click once again to cancel sending to depot 13:23:33 <mst> It has full passengers onboard and standing there waiting for nothing 13:25:50 <mst> Maybe station should be same length as train? I have no idea... And you? 13:26:08 <Eddi|zuHause3> a station should be longer than the train 13:26:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> for every wagon that sticks out of the station, the loading time increases drastically 13:28:15 <mst> Ok i will try 13:30:00 <mst> Another quest: is in openttd any option to notice me about reliability decrease or i have to manual watch all the trains or trucks? 13:31:13 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-198-154.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause3> mst: you can enable the option to automatically service if reliability drops below a certain % 13:31:29 * TrueBrain is now a FON member :) 13:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> instead of after a certain number of days 13:33:46 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:27 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:45:12 <mst> Eddi|zuHause3 where is it? 13:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> in patches -> vehicle section 13:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause3> "service intervals in %" 13:47:28 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd 13:49:04 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 13:55:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:56:23 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 13:59:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i59F7ECE7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:04:52 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-83-82.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:30 <TrueBrain> so there 14:10:32 <TrueBrain> wassup?! 14:11:15 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-83-82.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:44 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:29 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-227-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:53 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 14:28:03 *** glx is now known as Guest511 14:28:04 *** glx|away is now known as glx 14:29:02 *** Guest511 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> soylent green is people joining and quitting IRC 14:37:29 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-130-44.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:19 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-130-44.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:39:41 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7B06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:45 *** frosch123 [~mtce@kolmogoroff.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd 14:44:22 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:45:36 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-128-46.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 14:47:20 *** Guest499 [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:49 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:50:16 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 14:51:45 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:37 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 14:54:56 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:56:24 *** smoovi [smoovi@e178218115.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:56:42 *** Tino|R152 [~tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:56 *** Tino|R152 [~tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #openttd 15:04:55 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:13 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 15:07:38 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 15:10:00 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A47E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:10:25 <skidd13> hi folks 15:10:41 <dihedral> hi 15:10:41 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 15:11:20 <skidd13> Anyone in here who uses pidgin? 15:11:26 <TrueBrain> pidgin? 15:11:35 <glx> gaim renamed 15:11:51 * dihedral passes 15:12:09 <skidd13> I hate it to authentificate manualy every time 15:12:23 <glx> I don't use it 15:12:47 <Rubidium> skidd13: bitlbee? 15:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> no "remember this fucking input next time" button? yeah, i hate such situations, too 15:13:49 <skidd13> Rubidium: I don't want to waste my memory One app for all the messenger stuff is enough 15:15:42 *** Jello [lol@S01060060080d1060.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:48 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I only have IRC ;) 15:16:51 <Rubidium> skidd13: waste memory? 15:17:05 <blathijs> skidd13: Bitlbee will only save you memory :-) 15:17:25 <Rubidium> bitlbee does the same as pidgin/gaim (IIRC). The only difference is that bitlbee fakes an IRC server to which you can connect with your IRC client. 15:17:47 <Rubidium> it also allows you to run it on a server making you always online and able to receive PMs and such. 15:18:20 <dihedral> that sounds nice 15:18:45 <skidd13> somehow I prefer a GUI istead of terminal ;) 15:19:08 <Rubidium> GUIs kinda fail to work with putty/ssh ;) 15:19:30 <skidd13> And pidgin shows hidden ICQ users. I don't want to miss that neat bug/feature/whatever :D 15:19:59 <skidd13> Rubidium: x over ssh? 15:21:11 <Rubidium> kinda unuseable on PCs where you can't install anything. 15:21:29 <skidd13> agreed 15:23:20 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A47E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 15:26:53 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A47E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:04 <skidd13> Back again 15:27:32 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 15:27:42 <skidd13> Is there a command to chgeck if I'm authentificated? 15:28:09 <skidd13> :%s /chgeck/check/ 15:33:12 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has joined #openttd 15:34:59 <skidd13> Any news from SmatZ 15:35:00 <skidd13> ? 15:35:58 *** frosch123 [~mtce@kolmogoroff.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:28 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:16 <blathijs> skidd13: I think there is a stray space in your vim command :-) 15:40:18 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 15:40:34 <blathijs> skidd13: Authenticated against what? 15:42:20 <skidd13> blathijs: Never mind! I found a plugin in the recent two minute which does the job for me now. Damn google... I should have formulated my request better ;) 15:46:24 *** Jello [Papa@S01060060080d1060.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 15:47:35 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-211-097.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:52:38 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:34 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:56:27 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 15:56:47 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 16:03:12 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-227-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:44 *** Tino|R152 [~tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:06:41 *** mst [~mst@88-199-33-137.tktelekom.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:23 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7B06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 16:14:19 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:51 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 16:15:56 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7B06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:50 *** giff [~markus@p5B0405CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:31:36 *** giff [~markus@p5B0405CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 16:41:28 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:42:35 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F99D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:47:19 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DEF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:24 <fjb> Moin 16:48:17 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-130-44.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:55 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:52:30 <fjb> Is it just me who is too stupid or can anybody confirm the road vehicles don't find their route in r 11384? 16:53:23 <TrueBrain> fjb: would be funny if they didn't :p 16:53:26 <TrueBrain> show me a savegame :) 16:54:22 <fjb> TrueBrain: Where can I put it to shown you? I don't have web space right now. 16:54:49 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:55:18 <fjb> The drive in the wrong direction, turn around just ar corner away from theirr destination, etc.. 16:55:29 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:56:54 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 16:58:23 <skidd13> fjb: I can reproduce it 16:58:41 <fjb> Thank you 16:58:59 <TrueBrain> fjb: yapf? 16:59:22 <fjb> Yes 16:59:22 <skidd13> TrueBrain, Rubidium: Might be the KillBits thing :( 16:59:32 <TrueBrain> I am sure it is :) 16:59:53 <fjb> KillRVs thing. :-) 17:01:34 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:34 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 17:02:31 <glx> <TrueBrain> I am sure it is :) <-- same for me :) 17:04:06 <fjb> Why do I have to find all the bugs? (Not only in Openttd...) 17:04:43 <skidd13> So the | 0x... is needed for pathfinding? 17:04:43 <skidd13> fjb: Cause it has been late last night ;) 17:05:09 *** mucht_work [~martin@143.50.125.77] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:07:11 <TrueBrain> skidd13: more the question is: why 17:07:18 <TrueBrain> we ruled out that it could cause problems, or so we thought :p 17:07:21 <TrueBrain> fjb: do trains still route okay? 17:07:39 <glx> fjb: because devs can't think of all stupoid things a user can do ;) 17:08:21 <fjb> TrueBrain: I think trains are okay, but I will have a look. 17:08:29 <fjb> :-P 17:09:55 <fjb> >Looks like trains are ok, or my network is too small... 17:12:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43614.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:12:09 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-227-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:11 <fjb> I had some other strange effects with trains in the last days, but it is nothing that I could reproduce. I had trains trying to enter busy platforms at a station, wwhen a free platform was availlable. But that happened already days ago. 17:12:54 <TrueBrain> if it happeened before yesterday, it aint our fault :p 17:13:22 <fjb> Trains still find their way. 17:13:47 <fjb> Yeah, the train thing is older, and I found no way to reproduce it. 17:14:07 <skidd13> Hmm the 0x... value seems not to fix it :( 17:14:23 <fjb> But somebody has to implement new signals anyway, some day... 17:14:33 <Ailure> heh 17:14:41 <Ailure> fun thing about the train pathfinder 17:14:53 <Ailure> if it dosen't find a path between X and Y 17:15:34 <Ailure> it won't try avoid red signals at all 17:15:44 <Ailure> this have caused me a few deadlocks at some terminal stations for me :/ 17:16:12 <blathijs> I think it simply chooses random directions if it can't find it's way 17:16:14 <fjb> Ailure: Maybe that is the bug i was talking about. 17:16:21 <Ailure> fjb 17:16:31 <Ailure> I don't think they're related at all 17:16:39 <Ailure> I dunno if I should call it a bug even 17:16:48 <Ailure> since it happens in situations that shouldn't happen in first place anyway 17:17:27 <Ailure> and that the pathfinder (for understandable reasons) don't understand that trains can turn around at end of the line 17:18:07 <fjb> I had trains insiting to go to platforms that were occupied when a free platform was next to them and reachable. But that is unrelated to the road vehicles not finding their way. 17:18:35 <Ailure> yeah heh 17:18:56 <hylje> lol, wut 17:19:07 <Ailure> it caused a deadlock as the train trying to enter the occupied station was surrounded by a one-way signal and a station exit-signal 17:19:14 <Ailure> and the station itself was occupied too 17:19:25 <Ailure> I think I managed to cause a accident crash in a such situation too :) 17:19:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:24:27 <fjb> Is there a way to debug the pathfinder? 17:28:44 <Belugas> of course, fjb. the sources are there, just compile in debug mode and follow the functions and the flow of the PF 17:29:47 <fjb> Belugas: Thank you. I will try that tmorrow. 17:30:18 <fjb> I have to go now anyway. Have fun hunting bugs. Maybe I will be here again later this avening. 17:30:42 * Belugas does not hunt bugs. He can barely type... 17:31:33 <fjb> :-) 17:31:36 <fjb> Bye 17:31:39 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DEF4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'] 17:32:37 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:39:10 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A47E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 17:39:12 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A47E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:41:13 *** ln--_ is now known as ln- 17:42:00 *** Osai is now known as Osai^Kendo 17:42:18 <ln-> what does a cheapish flight to the USA cost? 17:42:24 <ln-> a return flight 17:43:55 <Belugas> the price of a car gaz tank for me ;) 17:44:42 <ln-> invalid answer :) 17:44:51 <skidd13> ln-: Oneway nothing: Call the CIA and tell them someting ;) 17:46:43 <Belugas> but, ln-, may i point out that your question by itself is totally invalid either? 17:46:52 <Belugas> it lacks the point of origin :P 17:47:07 <skidd13> ln-: try google -> http://www.e-flights.de/index.php?katid=188&lang=en 17:47:22 <Belugas> so, for sure, a ticket bough in australia does not cost the same as one from Great Britain ^_^ 17:47:52 *** Barry [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has joined #openttd 17:48:13 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 17:48:51 <ln-> Belugas: virtually everyone is from europe 17:49:35 <ln-> skidd13: that doesn't tell me what's the optimal starting point in europe for cheap flights. 17:50:10 <TrueBrain> there you go skidd13 :) 17:50:14 <skidd13> ln-: define cheap! Cause you need to add the costs for driving there too ;) 17:50:33 * Belugas is not from europ, altough born there, but that's beside he point... 17:50:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truelight * r11385 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix r11383: bool operation can be hard to translate for some people ;) (tnx fjb for noticing this bug ;)) 17:50:52 <Belugas> there are more non-europeans than you think in here :D 17:51:30 <ln-> skidd13: cheap := cheap if we assume one could get to the starting point at no cost. 17:51:43 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Bah. What a damned mistake. And 2 people overlooked it :( 17:51:52 <TrueBrain> yup 17:54:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host25-20-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:55:02 <Wolf01> hello 17:55:30 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 18:00:41 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:04:18 *** Barry [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:10 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: miham * r11386 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed) 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-11-05 19:07:09 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 24 changed by TrueTenacity (24) 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 fixed by tucalipe (1) 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 fixed by Hadez (1) 18:08:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 fixed by habell (1) 18:08:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 4 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<hylje> mm.. delicious train imageboard 20:27:54 <hylje> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyecg4m8XqQ 20:31:21 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 20:31:46 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 20:32:30 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B0405CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:57 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B0405CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:37:22 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:31 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:56 <hylje> http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1193879263757.jpg 20:52:27 *** Osai^2 [~Osai@pD9EB7B06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:52:36 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:13 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:00:23 *** Barry [~chatzilla@bg1078138.hum.uva.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]] 21:03:54 <Brianetta> Me: http://rachel.ppcis.org:8080/ 21:04:47 <Kommer> slow upload? :) 21:05:22 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.122.148.226] has joined #openttd 21:05:25 <Rubidium> is he going to get (kinda) slashdotted? 21:05:27 *** Ben_1 [~Ben@91.84.73.129] has joined #openttd 21:05:55 <Vikthor> Rubidium: Exactly my thought :) 21:06:24 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:40 <Vikthor> The other one was something about exhibitionism :P 21:07:59 <Rubidium> question is whether the strain is so much that he's getting kicked (read timed out) from IRC 21:08:00 <Desolator> is Chris around here? 21:08:16 <Rubidium> THE Chris has never been here 21:08:36 <Rubidium> or at least he didn't publicly announce himself as THE Chris 21:08:41 <Desolator> I mean the guy who made ChrisIN 21:08:42 <Desolator> >. 21:08:44 <Desolator> >.> 21:09:14 <Desolator> !seen ludde 21:09:16 <_42_> Desolator, if you can't see ludde here right now, you probably need new glasses. ^_^ 21:09:29 <Desolator> we need an new bot... 21:09:29 <Vikthor> Desolator: Isn't he in the ChriIN channel? 21:09:47 <Desolator> on...whut server? 21:10:40 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: He's tycooned ;) 21:10:42 <Vikthor> Desolator: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=32698 21:12:18 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5761.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:12:24 *** _Ben_ [~Ben@91.84.73.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:26 <skidd13> Hi again 21:12:43 <Desolator> hi 21:14:04 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 21:15:38 *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai 21:16:23 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Did you fixed the patch-list attatched thing? 21:17:15 *** Ben_1 is now known as _Ben_ 21:18:29 <hylje> http://www.1chan.net/rail/src/1193482842304.jpg 21:22:01 *** mcbane [~Maui_key@p5498F99D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:12 <Desolator> LOL! 21:31:14 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:32 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:34:41 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:34:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 21:35:48 *** Desolator [Desolator@86.122.148.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving FTW!] 21:37:48 <Smoovious> <Desolator> I mean the guy who made ChrisIN <--- he pokes his head in IRC occasionally, but mostly sticks to the forum 21:39:29 *** Tlustoch [~last_evol@r5bn73.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:34 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:42:00 *** mikk36 [~mikk36@ip223.cab56.mus.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 21:42:04 <mikk36> hey :) 21:42:18 <mikk36> is it possible to change difficulty settings with rcon ? 21:44:45 *** glx|away is now known as glx 21:46:11 <ln-> http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/algoritmi.jpg 21:52:06 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has joined #openttd 21:59:34 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:02 *** pecisk [~pecisk@78.84.118.215] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:00:43 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 22:00:46 *** DJ_Mirage [~sexybigge@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 22:00:50 *** eJoJ [~ejoj@89.10.29.107] has joined #openttd 22:01:51 <ln-> who has watched the tv series "professor poopsnaggle and his flying zeppelin" as a kid? 22:03:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think that ran under the name "mister snuggles" here 22:04:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think i watched more than two episodes ever... 22:04:41 <ln-> doctor snuggles was a completely different thing. 22:05:13 <ln-> the former was not a cartoon. 22:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, then i probably have no idea what you are talking about 22:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> and the picture above is definitely photoshopped :p 22:07:32 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 22:08:06 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 22:08:15 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hMNnXgH34 22:08:44 <ln-> (that was not a youtube link, you all saw wrong) 22:09:00 <ln-> (besides, it was relevant to discussion) 22:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause3> you forgot the handwaving ;) 22:10:55 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host86-131-26-180.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:17 <mikk36> never seen that series :) 22:20:02 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 22:20:31 <SmatZ> hello 22:20:46 <SmatZ> I see skidd13's updates are already commited 22:20:53 <SmatZ> so there is no need to profile them 22:21:03 <SmatZ> anyway, I did a look into generated ASM code 22:21:10 <SmatZ> and it is the same... 22:21:27 <SmatZ> I didn't look into all functions, but it looks the same 22:22:15 <SmatZ> KillFirstBit2x64 is not used anywhere in the code :) 22:22:56 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-43-121.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:23:01 <skidd13> SmatZ: not all stuff is committed. The define -> template stuff hasn't been commited 22:23:17 <SmatZ> ah... 22:23:57 <skidd13> But thanks for the checks 22:24:20 <SmatZ> np :) 22:24:41 <SmatZ> the "FindFirstBit2x64" generated code is not nice :-( 22:25:04 * Rubidium knows more code that is not nice 22:25:22 <SmatZ> :-) 22:26:01 <skidd13> SmatZ: I'm on this dirty little piece of code. I'll post my fist change in the next minutes ;) 22:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: no, i can definitely say i have never seen that either 22:26:24 <Rubidium> let me say that putting GoogleEarth panels in a .NET application's window does not yield nice code 22:26:29 <SmatZ> or http://paste.openttd.org/276 ... only one instruction, bsr, could be used instead... 22:27:23 <SmatZ> about the "rep ret" - it is a gcc bug while using Intel syntax, fixed in newest releases 22:27:35 <SmatZ> skidd13: I am looking forward to see it 22:28:07 <skidd13> I got only rid of GB in this function. This should increase it a bit. 22:28:08 <SmatZ> Rubidium: only the description is enough for me :) 22:28:26 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause3: pity. it was a good series, although i don't remember almost anything about it. 22:28:34 <skidd13> SmatZ: Assigned allready on the patch-mailinglist? 22:28:47 <SmatZ> skidd13: yes 22:28:49 <skidd13> K 22:29:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> ln-: but in my defense, in east germany you hardly ever had the ability to watch western shows 22:29:34 <SmatZ> too bad my Firefox wants to save all attachments to a file 22:29:44 <SmatZ> so I cannot browse patches in the browser... 22:29:45 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has left #openttd [] 22:30:00 <SmatZ> save + open in an editor is boring :-/ 22:30:24 <skidd13> yup 22:30:55 <Rubidium> SmatZ: curl + gpm + less maybe? 22:32:05 *** exe [~dgxczv@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 22:32:47 <SmatZ> Rubidium: nice, now I would only need something with C++ syntax highlighting :) 22:33:01 <SmatZ> something like paste.openttd.org to browse attachments would be nice 22:34:28 <skidd13> SmatZ: If I were AOL I'd say You've got post :D 22:36:36 <SmatZ> skidd13: do you mean some kind of private message? 22:36:56 <skidd13> nope maillist 22:37:26 <TrueBrain> skidd13: did you do some profiling? 22:37:36 <Rubidium> skidd13: I think it would rather be something like 'You've got mail' (trying to translate the German dubbed version of "You've got mail" back to English?) 22:38:09 <skidd13> Rubidium: whatever ;) 22:38:11 <TrueBrain> skidd13: btw, I didn't fix the attachment stuff yet, let me see if it is possible.. 22:38:28 <skidd13> TrueBrain: Ask SmatZ 22:38:36 <TrueBrain> what should I ask him? :p 22:38:41 <skidd13> Profiling 22:38:50 <skidd13> or check the IRC log 22:38:52 <TrueBrain> skidd13: you can profile too, you know ;) 22:38:58 <TrueBrain> too lazy, I ask you :) 22:39:01 <SmatZ> skidd13: now when some parts are commited, what patch should I profile? 22:39:34 <skidd13> SmatZ: The one from the mailinglist ;) But pleas replace the n -= 1; with n--; 22:39:56 <SmatZ> skidd13: it's ok, compiler will handle it the same way 22:40:16 <skidd13> I know, but I prefer cleaner style ;) 22:40:57 <SmatZ> :) 22:41:02 <SmatZ> skidd13: which patch? 22:41:13 <SmatZ> there are a lot of them :D 22:41:17 <skidd13> http://maillist.openttd.org/pipermail/patch/2007-November/000009.html 22:42:08 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I'm at profiling too. But my pc is so damned slow :D 22:42:35 <TrueBrain> hehe 22:42:37 <TrueBrain> even better :) 22:42:42 <TrueBrain> slower computers show differences better 22:43:07 <SmatZ> skidd13: you may use ccache or distcc to compile faster :) 22:43:36 <skidd13> TrueBrain: I hate waiting for the next build ;) 22:43:42 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-75.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:43:43 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I made some changes to the maillist, it might or might not help with attachments ;) 22:44:15 <skidd13> second :( 22:44:36 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I made some changes to the maillist 2 seconds ago, it might or might not help with attachments ;) 22:44:52 <skidd13> checked one second ago ;) 22:45:05 <TrueBrain> skidd13: I made some changes to the maillist 2 seconds ago, it might or might not help with attachments, but will only work for new incoming emails ;) 22:45:06 <TrueBrain> sigh... 22:45:07 <TrueBrain> :p 22:45:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:23 <skidd13> :D :P 22:45:32 <SmatZ> ah 22:47:40 <SmatZ> skidd13: are you the 'register' attribute is a good idea? 22:48:16 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: shouldn't a compiler decide on that? 22:48:27 <TrueBrain> as using register for such functions might in fact decrease performance 22:48:47 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:49:00 <skidd13> K 22:49:43 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: actually, I have the same opinion 22:51:39 <SmatZ> +template<typename T> static inline T ALIGN(const T x, register uint n) { 22:51:56 <SmatZ> I hope the compiler won't place the constant in a register :) 22:52:16 <SmatZ> and given that most architectures will have 2 registers for function parameters... 22:53:13 <skidd13> SmatZ: it's not a constant 22:53:31 <SmatZ> it is often called with a constant parameter, isn't it? 22:53:58 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C182.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:54:28 <skidd13> it is called often with the same parameter, but the value itself is not constant ;) 22:54:28 <TrueBrain> 'static inlines' are assumed to be optimized by the compiler as optimal as possible, including pushing things via the register 22:54:39 <TrueBrain> but, in fact, I believe register in inline params are ignored ;) 22:54:52 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I hope so 22:55:03 <SmatZ> skidd13: :-( 22:55:30 <skidd13> Ok I removed all the register stuff 22:55:33 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180064004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:40 <SmatZ> + return (T)(x << n | x >> (sizeof(x) * 8 - n)); 22:55:52 <SmatZ> you really know the C++ operator priority ;-) 22:55:54 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:56:24 <SmatZ> the same as in the original macro 22:56:25 <SmatZ> wow 22:57:09 <skidd13> No obvious possible outsourcing or simplification so keep it ;) 22:57:28 <skidd13> That's what I thought 22:57:48 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/277 the compiler is really dumb about optimizing the ROR function :-/ 22:58:35 <skidd13> what about -fast-math ? 22:58:36 <SmatZ> with -O3 -fno-inline -fno-optimize-sibling-calls 22:58:47 <SmatZ> skidd13: it optimizes only floating point operations 22:59:16 <skidd13> SmatZ: Thanks... One thing I didn't knew 22:59:17 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:07 <SmatZ> rol %edx, 25 23:02:08 <SmatZ> ahh 23:02:17 <SmatZ> it is OK when inlining is on 23:02:19 <SmatZ> strange 23:02:38 <SmatZ> ror %edx, 7 23:02:44 <SmatZ> when ROR as a macro 23:07:42 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 23:08:21 *** lolman is now known as John 23:08:29 *** John is now known as lolman 23:09:45 <Wolf01> 'night 23:09:49 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host25-20-dynamic.61-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:12:47 <SmatZ> running 2 copies of ottd with nice -19 23:12:58 <SmatZ> make smy computer really laggy 23:14:59 *** Stoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:59 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 23:15:52 <skidd13> good night 23:15:54 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5761.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 23:17:48 <SmatZ> hmm interesting 23:18:16 <SmatZ> I don't know where is the performance gain (eg. in which function), but the skidd13's patch makes it faster 23:18:26 <SmatZ> by roughly 10% 23:18:45 <SmatZ> I did 2 tests and both ended with similiar results 23:18:57 <SmatZ> I will recheck openttd.cfg to be the same 23:19:43 *** eJoJ [~ejoj@89.10.29.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:54 <Unknown> TrueBrain: got a second? 23:22:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-137-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:05 <SmatZ> hmm of course 23:24:24 <SmatZ> I shouldn't be profiling on a savegame with AI... 23:26:11 <TrueBrain> Unknown: always just speak, maybe someone else have the answer 23:26:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: might be not the smartest 23:26:36 *** Unknown is now known as Unkown_Entity 23:27:51 *** liona29 [~liona29@ANantes-257-1-143-77.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 23:28:14 <Unkown_Entity> would 320 KB for each _spritecache and _spritecache_ptr be enough? 23:28:33 <TrueBrain> spritecache is a dynamic array nowedays 23:28:34 *** liona29 [~liona29@ANantes-257-1-143-77.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:28:57 <TrueBrain> anyway, 320 KiB is kind of low 23:28:58 <SmatZ> patched version : user 1m6.190s original version : user 1m0.650s 23:29:19 <TrueBrain> what would happen, is that on low cache-values, it reads a lot from disk 23:29:22 <TrueBrain> so the game will get pretty slow 23:29:27 <TrueBrain> but I guess it is a matter of trail-and-error 23:29:33 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: why exactly? Is the memory that limited? 23:29:49 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:49 <SmatZ> now with inlining... 23:29:56 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: lol, was that without inlining? 23:30:00 <SmatZ> yes 23:30:02 <TrueBrain> haha, no wonder it is slower :) 23:30:05 <TrueBrain> I could tell you that :p 23:30:05 <SmatZ> :) 23:30:15 <TrueBrain> a jump and a return 23:30:20 <Unkown_Entity> yes, thge DS only has 4 MB of main memory and for some reason I can only allocate about 2 MB. 23:30:25 <glx> replacing a macro without inlining? 23:30:27 <TrueBrain> depending on your CPU, they are both expensive :) 23:30:38 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: iek, that makes it tricky... 23:30:41 <SmatZ> it was my fault, I forgot to turn off -fno-inline -fno-optimize-sibling-calls 23:30:50 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 23:30:54 <TrueBrain> glx: see maillist 23:30:55 <Unkown_Entity> so I abused the VRAM for the spritecache but I wasn't sure if that would cause much trouble 23:31:04 <TrueBrain> oh, wait, I misread you:p 23:31:04 <TrueBrain> hehe 23:31:11 <Unkown_Entity> an VRAM only has 640 KB, so not much better :( 23:31:12 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: lol, is that possible? 23:31:26 <TrueBrain> (clearly, but okay :)) 23:31:36 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: sure, you can basically map a variable to any memory you want to 23:31:42 <TrueBrain> anyway, a cache of 640 KiB should be enough I guess 23:32:08 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: real pcs have virtual memory, which doesn't make that job that easy ;) 23:32:35 <SmatZ> Unkown_Entity: interesting, but given how OTTD is slow on a Pentium class PC - are you able to play it? 23:32:57 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: is it slow? 23:33:06 <TrueBrain> that is, with old pathfinder and 256x256 maps? 23:33:07 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: yes :( 23:33:10 <TrueBrain> it in fact should run perfectly.. 23:33:13 * glx should restart his P133 to check :) 23:33:19 <SmatZ> I don't know, I play only HUGE maps 23:33:21 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-133-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:33:34 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: see, that is YOUR mistake, not OTTDs 23:33:54 <Unkown_Entity> currently I have based my code on the repository but I might have to fork it from 0.5.3 because the older versions only use about half the memory 23:33:55 <SmatZ> you are right, I am sorry, <3 OTTD 23:34:04 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 23:34:13 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: huh? 23:34:13 <SmatZ> :) 23:34:33 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: tweaked correctly, trunk shouldn't use more than 0.5.3 23:34:40 <TrueBrain> (if you don't load up all the extras, that is ;)) 23:35:10 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: I comiled both 0.5.3 and trunk with the same settings and trunk used 4.0MB, 0.5.3 only 2.3MB 23:35:27 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: are you sure you used the same amount of sprite-cache value? 23:35:31 <glx> trunk reduced static array usage 23:35:41 <TrueBrain> in 0.5.3 this was hardcoded, in trunk it is dynamic, but a higher default value 23:36:03 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: ah, that must be the reason. I didn't know that 23:36:09 <SmatZ> the vehicle cache is bigger, too, but I think it went from 64kB to 2x128kB 23:36:10 <TrueBrain> put, for example, the sprite_cache_size at 1 23:36:20 <Unkown_Entity> I only studied the code from trunk I didn't really compare it to 0.5.3 23:37:09 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: if you mean the vheicle pool, it is the same size 23:37:13 <TrueBrain> we don't have a vehicle cache 23:37:20 <TrueBrain> only a pathfinder cache, but that is YAPF 23:37:23 <Unkown_Entity> but still, even if i'd ever get it running on the ds i might have to fork it to make use of both processors 23:37:43 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: OpenTTD and multicore is a no-can-do 23:38:11 <glx> multithread is only used for saving and map generation 23:38:14 <TrueBrain> any 'fork' would result in a direct rewrite from scratch in order to get that working 23:38:39 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: definately sound processing and maybe even the blitter could be done on the second processor i think 23:38:41 <TrueBrain> glx: and map-generation is fake :) 23:38:43 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I mean static Vehicle *_new_vehicle_position_hash[TOTAL_HASH_SIZE]; and _vehicle_position hash, both have 128kB - in 0.5 is only on hash pool, with 64kB (I think) 23:38:52 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: blitter, no (believe me, I wrote it :p). Sound, yes, possible 23:38:56 <TrueBrain> but little gain I guess 23:39:08 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: ah, position hash, yes, indeed 23:39:27 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: finally, working comparison of skidds13's updates: trunk - user 0m41.550s ... patched - user 0m41.520s 23:39:39 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: but, if you don't use maps bigger than 256x256, it is safe to say you can reduce the HASH_SIZE :) 23:39:47 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: good, that is promising :) 23:39:49 <glx> SmatZ: right, but 0.5.x has bugs in tunnels because of that IIRC 23:39:51 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: :-) 23:39:51 <TrueBrain> you are signed on to the maillist? 23:40:00 <TrueBrain> glx: you are correct :) 23:40:09 <SmatZ> glx: really? 23:40:16 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: but couldn't the second processor check for dirty sprites and redraw them on it's own? 23:40:22 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I am 23:40:25 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: no, as it needs _m access 23:40:37 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: please post the profile result and how you did it (how many runs etc etc) to the maillist 23:40:52 <Unkown_Entity> maybe i could map _m to shared memory ^^ 23:40:56 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: you want a longer explanation? (I dunno how much you know already :)) 23:41:16 <TrueBrain> no no, the share problem isn't the issue at all 23:41:24 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: not yet, i'll spare you the time. first i have to get it running on one preocessor ;) 23:41:31 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 23:41:35 <TrueBrain> well, let me tell you anyway :p 23:41:38 <TrueBrain> I am on a roll :p 23:41:39 <TrueBrain> hehe 23:41:44 <glx> the problem is to synchronise read and write to _m 23:41:46 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD works around _m, our map 23:41:55 <TrueBrain> reading, writing, everything is done via wrappers, but in no common order 23:42:03 <TrueBrain> if you would make threads, you would need to make read/write locking 23:42:11 <TrueBrain> as else one thread might be writing in _m, while the other is reading 23:42:19 <TrueBrain> so, drawing bytes means _m access 23:42:21 <TrueBrain> means locking 23:42:26 <glx> and every action should ALWAYS happen in the same order 23:42:26 <TrueBrain> locking would be dead slow in its current form 23:42:39 <TrueBrain> glx: the blitter doesn't, so that can be worked around 23:42:48 <SmatZ> huh, it would be impossible to make it network-safe 23:42:52 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: above that, the blitter only consumes a little 2% CPU time in the last profile I had 23:43:15 <Unkown_Entity> ok, I agree, sharing _m would be impossible 23:43:26 <exe> guys how about doing vehicle ticks 50% less often? and interpolating their positions on screen view. 23:43:33 <TrueBrain> so, the only way would be, to 'cache' all the tiles you want to draw to blitter in a temporary cache 23:43:39 <Unkown_Entity> what other parts took enough cpu time to be worth the effort to move them to the other cpu? 23:43:39 <TrueBrain> which is a thread-safe-stack 23:43:41 <glx> path finding is the most consuming task I think, and it's impossible to do it in a separate thread 23:43:51 <TrueBrain> exe: costs CPU too ;) 23:44:13 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: the main consumer is either TileLoop, which we just said was impossible to do, or TrainController, whcih depends heavily on _m too 23:44:21 <exe> but much much less? 23:44:28 <TrueBrain> exe: depends, not reall 23:44:32 <TrueBrain> it already is at a mimimum 23:44:38 <TrueBrain> in-tile-movement is simple 23:44:43 <TrueBrain> pathfinder, that is your killer :) 23:44:57 <exe> yes. 23:45:03 <TrueBrain> disabling realistic acceleration helps against CPU load too btw :p 23:45:04 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: too bad then. :( but currently the main issue seems to be memory not cpu time anyway. 23:45:17 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: well.. all options to make things multicore, involves more memory ;) 23:45:21 <exe> do all the pathfinders crawl long straight rail segments one-by-one tile? 23:45:23 <TrueBrain> so I guess you are out of luck for thatone anyway 23:45:40 <TrueBrain> exe: basicly, yes. YAPF does something extra: it caches the result 23:45:45 <TrueBrain> so, one segment, 1 check 23:45:51 <TrueBrain> which increases the performance incredible 23:45:53 <TrueBrain> at cost of memory :) 23:46:07 <exe> ah ok 23:46:09 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: but some tips to reduce memory: don't allow map-sizes > 256 in both directions 23:46:12 <Jello> 4gigs of ram here 23:46:14 <Jello> >:) 23:46:20 <TrueBrain> reduces things like pool-size, hash-size, spritecache-size 23:46:26 <TrueBrain> and you should be able to fit it in 2 MiB just fine 23:46:33 <TrueBrain> (at the cost of bigmaps) 23:46:34 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: i already lowered map size to 64x64 :( 23:46:38 <TrueBrain> hehe 23:46:38 <TrueBrain> auch 23:46:51 <exe> how does it know when to clear cache? 23:46:54 <Jello> how much ram do u have? 23:47:09 <TrueBrain> exe: callbacks at layout change procedures 23:47:16 <Unkown_Entity> theoreticall 4 MB but for some reason i can only allocate 2 MB 23:47:16 <TrueBrain> (placing signal is bye segment cache) 23:47:24 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: 2 MiB per CPU? 23:47:29 <Jello> wtf... 23:47:37 <glx> Jello: DS 23:47:44 <Jello> glx: ? 23:47:44 <Unkown_Entity> might be because I currently onlywork on an emulator, I'll get the hardware next week hopefully 23:47:52 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 23:47:53 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: no, they are shared between both 23:47:55 <TrueBrain> what kind of OS does it run? 23:48:16 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: the emulator? i use DeSmuMe on Linux 23:48:23 <TrueBrain> no, a DS :) 23:48:36 <Unkown_Entity> no OS at all ^^ 23:48:48 <Unkown_Entity> there's a linux for ds in development though 23:48:55 <TrueBrain> it needs something to boot a game 23:49:04 <SmatZ> Bjarni and I (maybe others, I don't know) was doing some experiments about threading - some kind of vehicles can be done in separated threads (air, ships, rail+road), and rendering can be done threaded... but there are synchronization points, most noticeably GetSprite, that make everything really slow 23:49:21 <SmatZ> you get 10% performance increase, but lose 20% because of synchronizing 23:49:26 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: above that, any general solution makes the game DEAD slow on single-core 23:49:36 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: that's done in hardware i believe. it simply has to know the memory location of the binary which is always the same on every cartridge 23:49:37 <SmatZ> yes 23:49:47 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: it could be a compile-time option 23:50:03 <TrueBrain> Unkown_Entity: so it loads directly from BIOS.. so you need to call interupts yourself? Or is an API taking care of that? 23:50:14 <TrueBrain> (what I am trying to figure out: how to compile a game? :p) 23:50:23 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: i'm using the open source API devkitPro 23:50:38 <TrueBrain> and it produces a working binary? 23:50:56 <TrueBrain> what kind of 'target' is DS? (gcc is used?) 23:51:05 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: yes, when you have it setup correctly. actually it produces two binaries, one for each cpu 23:52:14 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: it's gcc, you can download it from www.devkitpro.org. easy to set up actually 23:52:30 <TrueBrain> ah, it is an ARM CPU 23:52:32 <TrueBrain> good choice :) 23:52:33 <Unkown_Entity> but you can't really test your stuff on emulators. they are to slow and not accurate enough yet 23:52:40 <Unkown_Entity> ARM7 and ARM9 23:52:48 <TrueBrain> very nice 23:53:03 <TrueBrain> how much MHz? 23:53:52 <TrueBrain> oh, and the tihng I always wondered about the most: does it have 2 GPUs? 23:53:57 <TrueBrain> (sorry, finally someone I can ask ;)) 23:54:10 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: btw, I really don't see any future in multithread and OpenTTD :) 23:54:51 <TrueBrain> (okay, I need to be more exact: parallel threads :p) 23:54:58 <TrueBrain> NoAI uses threads ;) (serial-threads :)) 23:55:34 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: 33,6 MHz on one, I'm not sure about the other. and it's only one GPU I think. not sure though 23:55:37 <exe> how about relaxing pathfinding corretness a bit? then train can pathfind in background threads some time before exiting tile on crossing. 23:55:48 <Unkown_Entity> TrueBrain: you can check some specifics here: http://www.dev-scene.com/NDS/Tutorials_Day_2#Memory_Layout 23:55:58 <TrueBrain> tnx Unkown_Entity 23:56:18 <TrueBrain> exe: pathfinding means a lot of _m access, so no thread for mister pathfinder... 23:56:22 <ln-> DS doesn't have a MMU 23:56:39 <SmatZ> hmm I got an idea about compiling OTTD for some PIC :) 23:57:22 <TrueBrain> the ARM7 really is just there for support 23:57:44 <Unkown_Entity> the ARM9 runs at 67 MHz, the ARM7 at 33 MHz 23:57:57 <TrueBrain> so combined 100 MHz... I expected more 23:58:00 <TrueBrain> the double in fact, was my estimate 23:58:02 <Unkown_Entity> i think most commercial games don't use the ARM7 at all yet 23:58:03 <TrueBrain> but oh well :p 23:58:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acefb34.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:21 <TrueBrain> it can't draw! 23:58:27 <TrueBrain> you can only run think-routines on it :) 23:58:33 <Unkown_Entity> but it can be put to use for sound processing very effectively 23:58:40 <TrueBrain> true 23:58:41 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acefb34.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:58:49 <TrueBrain> btw, I don't see a GPU.. I guess the ARM9 _is_ the GPU? :) 23:58:52 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: do you want me to run OTTD with profiling with optimizations turned on? 23:59:10 <SmatZ> including inlining and optimized sibling calls? 23:59:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: of course. See, I know by looking at the code skidd13's patch is slower without optimizations 23:59:26 <TrueBrain> so, to profile that gives me a 'duh' moment :) 23:59:35 <TrueBrain> mor eimportant I guess is: what happens in a release version 23:59:38 <TrueBrain> so full optimizations 23:59:44 <TrueBrain> of course, including what happens on a -fno-inline is useful too 23:59:48 <TrueBrain> for the developers under us 23:59:53 <TrueBrain> and damn, I really talk too much :p