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00:05:43 <SmatZ> skidd13: so I merged 2 functions and one macro into one, and this is the result: 00:05:51 <SmatZ> original 0m42.990s 00:06:14 <SmatZ> "alternative 32bit function" 0m41.790s 00:06:30 <SmatZ> "clean version" 0m41.820s 00:06:39 <SmatZ> names taken from http://paste.openttd.org/288 00:07:06 <SmatZ> the reason why current trunk is slower may be that it cannot inline FindFirstBit 00:09:20 <skidd13> And the lookup version? 00:11:09 <SmatZ> didn't test it... 00:11:40 <skidd13> What about 2 versions a FindFirstBit6(const uint8 x) which uses the lookup table and a FindFirstBit32(uint32 x) wich uses the alternative code? 00:12:50 <skidd13> So the FindFirstBit2x64 could be killed by the FindFirstBit32. Cause it seems to be faster or at least equal to the current trunk 00:13:43 <SmatZ> the difference is so little... 00:14:06 <skidd13> But less code ;) 00:14:31 <skidd13> :%s /less/less doubled/g 00:15:25 <SmatZ> yes 00:16:27 <skidd13> The clean is the modularest, but the convergence of the alternative is better. :( Hard to decide 00:17:00 <skidd13> Maybe keep the ideas as comments in the code ;) 00:17:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:18:16 <skidd13> damn it's late... good night 00:18:18 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6E4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 00:19:07 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB624C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 00:19:30 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B0421B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 00:19:32 *** BigBB_ [~BigBB@p5B0421B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BigBB_] 00:20:23 <SmatZ> skidd13: lookup version 0m43.550s 00:35:23 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:53 *** SacroIsSorry [BenWoodwar@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:40:04 <SacroIsSorry> I'm sorry 00:40:12 <SacroIsSorry> no more pasting crap 00:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> err... circumventing a ban is not quite the fine english way either... 00:44:47 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B0421B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:01 <SacroIsSorry> fine, I'll do the british thing and go have a cup of tea 00:45:05 *** SacroIsSorry [BenWoodwar@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 00:45:56 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:28 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: 2440457725] 00:52:56 <fjb> Hm, it's 6 years into the game and most ECS second level industries are gone. :-( 00:53:43 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-199-249.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:33 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:47 <glx> fjb: you should have at least 1 of each 01:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: if i understood things correctly, there is like a 5 year protection period 01:04:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if you did not service the industry until then, it will likely close 01:05:01 <fjb> Yes, one of each, but that is not much that early in the game when you can not connect them because they are too far away. 01:05:19 <glx> you have 5 years to start to use them 01:07:03 <fjb> 5 years are not much. I had to make some money first. It's not that easy at the start of the game (if you don't play with everything set to easy). 01:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it was designed for TTDPatch, which does not have huge maps 01:08:41 <fjb> I wouldn't mind if new industries would appear more often to replace the closed ones. 01:08:45 <Eddi|zuHause> oh that makes me think of the good old times... 01:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> where i thought that 5 tile trains were huge 01:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and most of my trains were 3 tiles 01:09:53 <fjb> :-) I don't like trains that short. It's plain unrealistic on the main lines. 01:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with long trains is that you need long stations as well 01:10:41 <fjb> And ships do appear now for the first time, so I couln'd get the fish earlier. Maybe by airship, but that was too expensive. 01:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> without diagonal and bendy stations that is quite difficult 01:11:11 <fjb> A bit difficult in the mountains, I admit. 01:12:08 <fjb> Routng restrictions would help, so you could easier send long trains to long platforms. 01:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> YAPF does handle that 01:12:25 <fjb> Maybe we get diagonal stations one time. 01:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it gives penalty for too long or too short platforms 01:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so trains choose the platform that fits best 01:13:29 <fjb> Oh, I never tried it. That sounds intelligent. But does it also send small trains to short platforms? Else they would block the long platforms. 01:13:44 <fjb> That is clever. 01:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you can tweak the settings to fit your needs best 01:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (more complex station entrances might need higher settings to counter the rerouting penalty) 01:14:47 <fjb> Now we need only station tiles that give priorities to different freights. 01:28:54 <Gonozal_VIII> could a grf do that? 01:30:51 <fjb> I don't think so. 01:30:58 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77818.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:33:57 <fjb> Hm, I haven't done C++ for a long time. 01:36:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-214-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:36 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> osmotic.oftc.net quits: mikegrb 01:37:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B776F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:14 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D522.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:18 *** Netsplit over, joins: mikegrb 02:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i have never known about a grf way to influence YAPF penalties 02:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> but that does not mean it could not be specified 02:05:25 <Gonozal_VIII> me neither but i don't know much about grfs and what they can do 02:06:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> damn, civ4 always crashes at the same point 02:08:14 <Gonozal_VIII> which point? 02:08:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> somewhere far into the game... 02:09:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> somewhere between my savegame and the beginning of the next round 02:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> and it was such a great savegame... 02:10:06 <Gonozal_VIII> the ai always ends up destroying the planet... 02:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i didn't get to the nuclear war yet... 02:10:54 <Gonozal_VIII> one city challange on a huge map without water... 02:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> last game i won with cultural victory 02:11:49 <Gonozal_VIII> they threw like 20 nukes each per turn... 02:12:00 <Belugas> [21:06] <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i have never known about a grf way to influence YAPF penalties <--- does not exists yet 02:12:11 <Belugas> would be ottd specific 02:12:21 <Belugas> i doubt it would be usefull, 02:12:21 <Gonozal_VIII> the game didn't last long after manhattan project 02:12:29 <Belugas> since yo can change values via config 02:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> this time i am quite advanced in technology and size, and was just preparing to attack some of the minor civilisations on the other continents 02:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: well, the main point here would be (newgrf) station tiles which give penalties for different kinds of cargo 02:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> like if i build a coal station it penalises anything else 02:14:39 <Gonozal_VIII> or negative penalty for coal... 02:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> or a passenger station penalises goods 02:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: there cannot be any negative penalties 02:14:55 <Belugas> good point, worth considering 02:15:02 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... 02:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: the YAPF implementation would then be OTTD specific, and TTDP could figure out its own way to obey to these preference rules 02:19:07 *** tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B81AA7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:21 <Belugas> i really doubt ttdp could do anything with those values. they do not have yapf, and i'm not sure if they have played with the pathfinding 02:20:57 <Gonozal_VIII> so 02:20:58 <Gonozal_VIII> ? 02:21:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not need to have anything to do with yapf values... more like "prefer cargo: X,Y; neutral cargo: A,B,C; unwanted cargo: U,V" 02:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then in the config you have "yapf_station_prefer=10, yapf_station_neutral=100, yapf_station_unwanted=1000" or similar 02:26:37 <Belugas> so...those numbers are only good for us, not for them. That does not mean we should not have our onw specs, it just means they would not be usefull for them... 02:27:27 <Belugas> but if ever they use the properties required, it has to be within the context it was designed for, otherwise, it willbe a ball of confusion 02:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the actual numbers should still be changeable through the config 02:27:54 <Belugas> no. if it comes from a grf, it will have to superseed the config 02:28:00 <Belugas> otherwise, it's useless 02:28:12 <Belugas> grf represent the view of an author 02:28:13 <Gonozal_VIII> wanted, neutral, unwanted can be used in different ways 02:28:28 <Belugas> ? 02:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> as the meaningfulness of the yapf penalties heavily depends on the persons building style, it should really be a per-user setting 02:29:05 <Gonozal_VIII> [03:21:12] Eddi|zuHause2: it does not need to have anything to do with yapf values... more like "prefer cargo: X,Y; neutral cargo: A,B,C; unwanted cargo: U,V" <-- that sounds good 02:30:18 <Belugas> [21:30] <Eddi|zuHause2> as the meaningfulness of the yapf penalties heavily depends on the persons building style, it should really be a per-user setting <--- then why specify it with grf??? 02:30:20 <Gonozal_VIII> here it can be handled with the yapf penalties, patch could use it in any other way they wan 02:30:22 <Gonozal_VIII> t 02:30:47 <Gonozal_VIII> not actual numbers in the grf, only types of cargo 02:31:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: the grf only specifies which cargo to prefer, the config specifies how much influence the preference has 02:31:16 <Gonozal_VIII> can't change that in the config 02:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> a small station with big detours at the entrance might need very big penalties per tile 02:32:39 <Belugas> i thugh you guys were talking about yapf penalties defined by grf 02:33:10 <Gonozal_VIII> it only defines that there is a penalty not how high it is 02:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i was responding to this: 02:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2007-11-13 02:14] <fjb> Now we need only station tiles that give priorities to different freights. 02:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> [2007-11-13 02:28] <Gonozal_VIII> could a grf do that? 02:34:09 <Belugas> you drive me nuts 02:34:15 * Belugas hides 02:34:18 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 02:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> and my suggestion was: let the grf specify quality, and let the config specify quantity 02:35:12 <Gonozal_VIII> which is a very good way imho 02:37:29 * Belugas disagrees 02:37:34 <Gonozal_VIII> why? 02:37:35 <Belugas> it's all or nothing 02:37:45 <Gonozal_VIII> all or nothing? 02:37:47 <Belugas> otherwise, it's pretty much a hack 02:38:07 <Belugas> like... specify the penality, not just that it shoudl have penalty 02:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does really not make a lot of sense to specify yapf penalties per grf, because the yapf penalties were always intended as a per-user setting, not a per-game setting 02:38:15 <Gonozal_VIII> it would be the same as all the other yapf penalties 02:38:57 <Belugas> then, yo do not need yapf specifying that there shold be a penalty via grf 02:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> different users may use different yapf penalties depending on their building style 02:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> well you need some way to specify that a certain platform was intended for goods dropoff, and another for passenger pickup 02:39:45 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 02:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> within the same station 02:40:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> and my idea that this would be best served by the newgrf station specification 02:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> a person designing a passenger station graphic might as well specify that passenger is the preferred cargo 02:41:35 <Gonozal_VIII> and coal for example as unwanted... whatever the grf designer wants 02:41:52 <DaleStan> Why can't you add signal restrictions, and then trust the users to apply the proper restrictions to the signals instead? 02:42:06 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83226.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:42:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 02:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> because! :p 02:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think this would be much easier 02:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it would work completely automatic, without user interaction 02:43:32 <Belugas> where is the fun of playing then? 02:43:42 <DaleStan> Easier for whom? And aren't you going to have to add signal restrictions anyway? 02:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, this has nothing to do with signals... the infrastructure for pathfinder penalties is already there, just have to add another case 02:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> and if i throw in the evil r-word now, people will get mad 02:45:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: the player still has fun in designing station layouts 02:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> just that now his coal trains will actually go to the coal platform, and the wood trains will take the wood platform 02:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of a random mix 02:49:05 <Belugas> why not use waypoints? 02:49:16 <Belugas> just mark the entrances 02:49:42 <Gonozal_VIII> waypoints are not flexible 02:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, that uses additional space 02:49:53 <Gonozal_VIII> trains have to take the waypoint... 02:50:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> note that YAPF penalties do not prevent the coal train from taking the wood platform, if the coal platform is already taken 02:50:47 <Belugas> yup, so either way, you're not any better 02:51:24 <Gonozal_VIII> but that's exactly what i would want the trains to do 02:51:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you do know the difference between "preference" and "restriction" 02:52:56 <Gonozal_VIII> prefer the platform of the right type but take a neutral one, if the best is already taken... waypoints don't do that 02:53:46 <Gonozal_VIII> the station could consist of some wood platforms, some default and some passenger platforms for example 02:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> exactly... if the coal platform is taken, try to take a general goods platform, but avoid the passenger platform as much as possible 02:54:57 <DaleStan> <Gonozal_VIII> prefer the platform of the right type but take a neutral one, if the best is already taken... waypoints don't do that <-- But restrictions, properly used, can. 02:55:11 <DaleStan> And won 02:55:35 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2: but to achieve that, you will have to define a new yapf setting, since the only one that actually exists is for the whole station 02:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i go to bed 02:55:45 <Belugas> plus, the notion of platform does not exists 02:55:47 <DaleStan> And won't messing with the station penalties mess with the chance of a passenger train going around the station instead of through a passenger setting. 02:56:08 <DaleStan> s/setting/station/ 02:56:19 <Belugas> yeah 02:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: it does, YAPF determines platform length, and gives different penalties depending on it 02:56:41 <Gonozal_VIII> neutral penalty is the same as the old station penalty 02:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: trains already try to avoid station tiles that they are not scheduled to go to 02:57:13 <Belugas> you are righ, haven't looked low enough 02:57:24 <DaleStan> But changing the YAPF penalties will change how hard they try to avoid them, right? 02:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: yes, that is exactly the point ;) 02:57:53 <DaleStan> Possibly to the point that they no longer avoid them when they still should. 02:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> not if you adjust the penalties accordingly 02:59:06 <DaleStan> And what percentage of the users have ever manually edited openttd.cfg? 02:59:33 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need to if you have a good default value 02:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: and what percentage of the other users actually depend on these settings? 03:00:28 <DaleStan> If you're relying on the default being good, why is it in the config at all? 03:01:12 <Gonozal_VIII> because advanced players can adjust it so that their complicated stations and natworks work the best way possible 03:01:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> DaleStan: it was KUDr's design choice to have all penalties modifyable 03:01:33 <Gonozal_VIII> -a+e 03:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. i recently needed to adjust the value for using depot as turning point, because it was lower than the station penalty for long stations 03:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> so instead of passing through the station, the trains were going through a far off depot, clogging a totally underdimensioned line 03:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> like i previously said, for certain building styles, the default values loose their sense 03:04:29 <Belugas> amd what if the highly hypothetical grf yapf setting was more a multiplier? in would make more sens to me 03:05:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> that could work, too... but my idea sounded cleaner... 03:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i was going to bed... 03:06:13 <Gonozal_VIII> i also think that would be cleaner... and good night 03:07:05 <Belugas> i don't get the point of specifying that said platform is yapf penaltisable without anythin more, since the rest is already specified in the conmfig 03:07:09 <Belugas> that is non sens 03:09:15 <Gonozal_VIII> vehicles also data about what they are refittable to and the specification of the goods is stored elsewhere 03:09:21 <Gonozal_VIII> +have 03:09:29 *** Hendikins|Work is now known as Hendikins 03:11:14 <Belugas> that is so not relevant... 03:11:49 <Belugas> i was more thinking to the same system that is used for costs 03:11:57 <Belugas> grf costs are just multipliers 03:12:03 <Belugas> as simple as that 03:13:44 <Gonozal_VIII> would mean more new data in the grf 03:13:54 <Belugas> so? 03:14:03 <Gonozal_VIII> not needed 03:16:03 <Belugas> [21:06] <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: i have never known about a grf way to influence YAPF penalties <--- and how, otherwise, are you going to achieve this? 03:17:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't say that, but i dont have any idea about the code so... 03:18:09 <Belugas> so don't tell me "[22:16] <Gonozal_VIII> not needed" 03:18:58 <Gonozal_VIII> well if it's stored in one place you don't have to store it everywhere in the grf 03:19:09 <Gonozal_VIII> and the user could modify it 03:19:21 <Belugas> then, forget the grf, it is not waht you are looking for 03:20:05 <Gonozal_VIII> it has to provide information which freight type the station is for 03:33:32 <Gonozal_VIII> going to sleep now.. sleeping is important for humans... 03:34:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11426 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Just one boolean inversion instead of two 03:34:57 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-98-200-106-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:36:48 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-98-200-106-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 03:37:37 *** Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:38:39 *** Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 03:42:22 *** Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:52:12 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77818.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:27 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-98-200-106-108.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:56:47 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76673.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:00:02 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:01:14 *** Tino|Home 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[~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:11 *** Kommer [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:18 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-75.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:50:42 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:00:17 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-165-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:00:18 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:55 *** ludde [~ludde@ua-83-227-238-252.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 07:01:01 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:01:31 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:04:18 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 07:05:47 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-176-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:57 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 07:20:22 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 07:23:00 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:23:49 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:24:50 *** Kommer_ [kommer@vestingbar.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:45 <skidd13> SmatZ: http://paste.openttd.org/293 I think I got the faster allgorithm :) But somewhere there's a little mistake in it :( 07:26:07 <skidd13> @seen SmatZ 07:26:07 <DorpsGek> skidd13: SmatZ was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 5 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <SmatZ> skidd13: lookup version 0m43.550s 07:26:30 <skidd13> Hope he'll get it then! 07:26:30 <skidd13> SmatZ: http://paste.openttd.org/293 I think I got the faster allgorithm :) But somewhere there's a little mistake in it :( 07:26:43 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 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#openttd 09:32:40 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-75.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:25 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-164-75.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:44:01 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-54.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 09:44:26 *** LeviathNL [LeviathNL@wlan-145-94-222-163.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 09:48:19 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:49:02 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.140] has joined #openttd 09:55:40 *** dihedral [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has joined #openttd 09:56:21 <dihedral> hello 09:58:50 *** skidd13_WORK [~d5178552@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 10:00:10 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:48 <skidd13_WORK> Hi 10:02:04 <dihedral> hello skidd 10:03:40 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 10:19:49 *** Ammler 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[~dex@i577B7E56.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:11:30 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F2A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:38 <fjb> Moin 14:12:37 <SpComb> hmm... myottd.net's going down for maintenance 14:13:41 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:13:41 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387C013.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:14:03 * SpComb hopes the box boots up after a new kernel installation and mdadm configuration madness 14:14:09 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i577B7E56.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:14:41 <SpComb> one of the hard drives in the RAID array (or the fan - hard to tell) is making an evil rattling noise, and smartctl thinks that the drives don't support SMART anymore 14:15:45 *** Starbud [~Starbud@c-c5b4e455.44-0016-74657210.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 14:15:46 <fjb> Oh, oh... 14:19:45 <SpComb> bah, I thought it had failed to boot up as it wasn't pinging, so I detached my second monitor (all neatly velcro cable-tied up to every other cable in the system), plugged it in to the server and the UPS under the bed, and turns out it's just fscking 750GB of data 14:19:59 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387C013.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i577B7E56.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:34 *** Stoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:34 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 14:20:39 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83226.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:39 <fjb> :-) 14:21:03 <fjb> Hope the fscking will succeed. 14:21:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:22:19 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83226.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:22:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:23:41 <SpComb> it did 14:23:51 * SpComb shuts it down again, as well as qmsk, to plug in the UPS data cable 14:27:08 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 14:38:34 <SpComb> huh, I found SMART was disabled in the BIOS, so I enabled it... still doesn't work :( 14:44:08 <fjb> Hm, did it work before? 14:47:20 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-135-215.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 14:49:56 <SpComb> yes, it did 14:50:58 <Tefad> clock set? 14:55:20 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:56:17 <SpComb> BATTDATE : 07/30/02 14:56:33 <SpComb> this thing was supposed to have new batteries in it when I bought it last summer (2006) :/ 14:56:45 <SpComb> that looks like m/d/y 14:56:59 <SpComb> which would indicate the batteries being five years old 14:57:34 <SpComb> I guess you can't expect everything when you buy a 3kVA ups on eBay for 280 euros 14:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is exactly why "all number" dates are bad 14:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> because there is no indication what is the order... 14:59:04 <SpComb> well, it might be y/d/m, in which case APC's service ninjas sneaked into our server room some time last winter and replaced the batteries 14:59:38 <SpComb> I think it's more likely that the "refurbished" UPS that I was sold with "new batteries" actually contained the same old batteries that it always had 14:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> y/d/m is never a valid date format anyway... 15:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the only useful date formats are d/m/y or y/m/d 15:01:29 * SpComb tests by unplugging the UPS 15:02:06 *** [CnE]Philajainen [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 15:02:23 <fjb> There are ISO dates, like 2007-11-13. 15:02:52 *** [CnE]Philajainen [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has left #openttd [] 15:03:30 *** Balloz [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 15:04:40 * SpComb has a server, a desktop, two monitors, his speakers, joystick, and desk light plugged into this UPS 15:04:43 <LeviathNL> is there a wawy to use the ECS Town vector and PBI together? ECS disables all cargos. and PBI only "enables" lumber, fuel oil and plastic 15:04:48 <SpComb> ~70 minutes runtime :P 15:04:49 *** Balloz [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has quit [] 15:05:01 *** Balloz [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #openttd 15:05:15 *** Balloz [~loz_ballo@host-84-9-170-94.bulldogdsl.com] has left #openttd [] 15:06:14 <dihedral> http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/taxonomy_menu/4/49/66 15:06:20 <dihedral> ^ pertty interesting :-) 15:07:21 <dihedral> sim city made open source 15:12:08 <fjb> Really interesting. 15:13:21 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd 15:16:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> LeviathNL: i don't think they were ever designed to work together 15:17:01 <LeviathNL> setting parameter 1 of ECS to 1 fixed it 15:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> similarly you can't mix DBSet and UKRS 15:17:35 <LeviathNL> ECS Town wiki : parameter 1 Disable (0, default) / Enable (1) default cargoes 15:24:15 <Unknown_Entity> can someone tell me where the number 6144 in viewport.cpp:1524 comes from? ParentSpriteToDraw *parent_list[6144]; 15:27:52 * Belugas has no idea at all 15:32:36 <frosch123> Unknown_Entity: Because CS thought 6144 parent sprites are enough. 15:33:59 <frosch123> and perhaps the array was 64k somewhen. 15:36:02 <Unknown_Entity> frosch123: ok, so no apparent reason. :) thanks 15:37:17 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:51 <Belugas> could very well be, frosch123 15:41:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11427 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Fix: Forgot to Truncate the string "Many Random Industries" in the funding industry window. In some languages, it gets drawn outside of the gui. 15:43:35 <frosch123> Hmm, I just checked OTTD 0.1. So CS thought 750 parent sprites were enough. Don't know who increased it zo 6144... 15:44:51 <dihedral> frosch123: svn blame? 15:45:11 <Unknown_Entity> frosch123: thanks. i might set it back to 750 here. i'm running short on memory anyway 15:45:22 <dihedral> ? 15:46:00 <dihedral> btw - while i think of it... 15:46:13 <Unknown_Entity> dihedral: 4 MB - binary isn't a lot to work with... 15:46:26 <Unknown_Entity> (4 MB - binary) 15:46:51 <dihedral> storing the generation seed in the config file.... 15:47:06 <dihedral> when ever one starts a dedicated server it will use that seed for generating the map 15:47:16 <Belugas> !seen BigBB 15:47:48 <Belugas> @seen BigBB 15:47:48 <DorpsGek> Belugas: BigBB was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <BigBB> IIRC the bridge behavior was changed for the bridge-over-all patch 15:48:14 <Belugas> thank you, faithfull little bot 15:48:57 <dihedral> hello Belugas 15:48:58 <dihedral> :-) 15:49:31 <Belugas> hello dihedral 15:49:45 <Belugas> blame = r138 truelight ParentSpriteToDraw *parent_list[6144]; 15:50:13 <dihedral> :-) 15:50:37 <frosch123> @openttd commit 138 15:50:39 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by truelight :: r138 trunk/viewport.c (2004-08-25 08:57:25 UTC) 15:50:40 <DorpsGek> frosch123: -Add: 64x64 stations are now nicely painted (increased size of 15:50:41 <DorpsGek> frosch123: parent_list) 15:51:25 <frosch123> We must be bored to check such things :) 15:51:55 <dihedral> or just miss truelight :-) 15:53:49 <Unknown_Entity> it might be useful for me. thanks for digging it up :) 15:54:07 <Belugas> well... since he left, i guess the more we know, the best it is ;) 15:54:39 <Belugas> just... why the heck did he choose such an odd number 15:55:41 <Unknown_Entity> maybe that's how many sprites a 64x64 station needs 15:55:51 <frosch123> 64*64 = 4096; +50% savety -> 6144 15:56:40 <Belugas> could very well be :) 15:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 3*2^11 15:56:51 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 15:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... what? 15:58:06 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2: try ** 15:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> @calc 3*2**11 15:58:17 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: 6144 15:58:21 <frosch123> But a 64x64 station is not drawn in one part 15:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> odd... 15:59:19 *** Ben_ [~Ben@82.152.210.64] has joined #openttd 16:05:51 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4D5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:05:57 <skidd13> Hi 16:06:24 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-83-82.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:08:07 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:08:27 <dihedral> hello skidd13 16:09:22 *** frosch123 [~mtce@kolmogoroff.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:28 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-83-82.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:28 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 16:14:12 *** JamesV [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:19:12 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:21:03 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 16:22:39 *** JamesV [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:31 *** heftig [HydraIRC@p5088CBCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:29:07 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 16:29:34 <SmatZ> hello 16:32:37 *** heftig [HydraIRC@p5088CBCB.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 16:33:14 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:23 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:01 *** Unknown_Entity [~UnknownEn@dslb-084-063-077-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:50:00 *** Unknown_Entity [~UnknownEn@dslb-084-063-077-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:46 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 16:54:05 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489E49B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:47 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489CA8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:23 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p57A2EB08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:13 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:27:05 *** _Bastiaan_ [~kvirc@77.60.199.140] has joined #openttd 17:29:10 *** _Bastia3 [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 17:31:42 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:36:04 *** _Bastiaan_ [~kvirc@77.60.199.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:34 *** Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|Work 17:39:10 *** _Bastia3 [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:40:08 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.91] has joined #openttd 17:40:12 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p57A2EB08.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:09 *** dihedral_ [~dihedral@dslb-084-057-233-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:41:57 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:02 <LeviathNL> is there a smart way to let multiple trains use a single track? 17:45:31 *** dihedral is now known as Guest555 17:45:31 *** dihedral_ is now known as dihedral 17:45:35 *** Guest555 [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: have been replaced] 17:49:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS was very efficient for that scenario 17:50:51 <fjb> The actual presignal blocks are a bit braindead, sometimes... 17:51:03 *** mucht_work [~martin@143.50.125.77] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:52:05 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p57A2EB08.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:10 <LeviathNL> I'm using the base cost mod on mountainous rough terrain and building a foundation costs around 55.000â¬. Laying 2 lines is difficult :P 17:54:40 <dihedral> :-D 17:54:53 <dihedral> nice to see the base cost modifyer elsewhere in action 17:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, like i said, the only real solution is to use PBS (or at least the "intelligent presignalling" part of PBS) 17:58:48 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 18:03:07 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:11:30 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7A17C.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 18:16:00 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has joined #openttd 18:16:08 <Ammler> LeviathNL: thats why phazorx patched ottd 18:16:27 <Ammler> ottd takes costs from slope to build foundations 18:16:33 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76673.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:16:58 <Ammler> his patch just mulitplied the normal track with about 8, iirc 18:17:09 <Phazorx> 4 18:17:31 <Phazorx> affecting anything that might require foundation 18:17:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76673.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:51 <Phazorx> i think "associated" costs were multiplied by for making total cost per being 5x 18:18:05 <Ammler> http://wwottdgd.ammler.ch/wwottdgd/patches/wwottdgd_modified_slope_costs.diff 18:19:30 <Phazorx> okay 8 :) 18:27:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:13 <ln-> let's rename the "Patch settings" to something else, ok? 18:29:16 <ln-> objections? 18:30:01 <Ammler> Switches? 18:31:38 <ln-> this was discussed before, and back then some good suggestions were made. does anyone remember? 18:32:13 <hylje> no 18:33:00 <fjb> Preferences? :-) 18:33:27 <Prof_Frink> ln-: Merge game options and difficulty settings as pages on the patches dialogue and call the whole thing "options" or "settings" 18:34:49 <Ammler> indeed, and maybe split options where aren't changeable after start 18:36:07 <Phazorx> "tweaks" 18:36:58 <Prof_Frink> newgrf settings could also be added to the dialogue 18:37:47 <Ammler> hmm, something like 2 list, left all activated grfs and right all available 18:38:38 <DaleStan> It might also be good to split interface settings (which can be changed independent of the server in MP) from the gameplay settings. 18:38:57 <DaleStan> I think some of those are properly split, but I'm not sure if they all are. 18:39:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11428 /trunk/src/table/cargo_const.h: -Fix: wrong string used for candy/sweets units_volume 18:40:06 <Ammler> and the company switches, like autoreplace of old vehicels 18:40:38 <Ammler> is there an other one? 18:43:55 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs 18:47:02 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:30 *** alain [~alain@88-108-128-66.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 18:47:42 <alain> hi 18:48:12 <alain> can any one help me find some grf files 18:48:59 *** alain [~alain@88-108-128-66.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 18:49:28 *** alain [~alain@88-108-128-66.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 18:49:59 *** alain [~alain@88-108-128-66.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 18:52:42 <fjb> What are you looking for? 18:53:00 <fjb> Oh, he is gone. 18:53:15 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4D5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 18:53:39 <fjb> People don'T have time, now he has to solve his problem alone. :-) 18:56:44 *** Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 18:57:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11429 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r11129): some TextID to StringID 'translations' didn't follow our format 19:20:59 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:07 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 19:24:29 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-222-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:33 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:26:22 *** Unknown_Entity [~UnknownEn@dslb-084-063-077-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:08 <Sacro> Node *left, *right; 19:37:08 <Sacro> int childCount() { 19:37:08 <Sacro> return !!left + !!right; 19:37:08 <Sacro> } 19:37:12 <Sacro> XD 19:37:47 <Gonozal_VIII> !!? 19:37:58 <Sacro> not not 19:38:06 <Gonozal_VIII> why? 19:38:09 <Sacro> converts a cast to a bool 19:38:21 <Gonozal_VIII> what language is that? 19:38:28 <Sacro> C 19:38:32 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. 19:39:57 <Gonozal_VIII> and bool + bool is int? 19:40:09 <Rubidium> yes 19:40:18 <Rubidium> effectively a int is a bool and viceversa 19:40:21 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... nice trick then 19:40:36 <Rubidium> pointers are also seen as booleans in ifs 19:41:05 <Gonozal_VIII> i only know some java... 19:41:18 <Rubidium> java is much more strict about types 19:41:25 <Gonozal_VIII> yes 19:42:37 *** Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:07 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:45:28 *** Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:46:49 <LeviathNL> can I interest someone in making highlights for autoroad? (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=637880#p637880) 19:52:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-153-127.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:54:17 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:01:56 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489E49B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04:32 * Belugas is interested but way too busy to do anything 20:06:07 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5E92.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:07:22 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:08:01 <LeviathNL> Ammler, so basecost grf does not work a 100% as intended on normal openttd? 20:08:28 <Ammler> why do mean? 20:08:44 <LeviathNL> Ammler> LeviathNL: thats why phazorx patched ottd 20:10:29 <Ammler> it only changes basecosts configurable over parameters 20:11:22 <Ammler> I have no idea who decided to take raise/lower land cost for foundations too 20:11:42 <Ammler> hmm, was foundations already in TTD? 20:12:44 <Prof_Frink> Only for town buildings 20:12:44 <Ammler> maybe we should check how it works with the Patch 20:13:54 <Ammler> Is there space for another basecost? 20:14:11 <Ammler> maybe that would be worth to add as its own 20:14:48 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 20:16:54 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl51B78841.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 20:17:20 <Ammler> DaleStan: was it ever discussed to add foundations as own base cost? 20:17:38 *** Ben_ is now known as _Ben_ 20:17:44 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:22 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7A17C.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:21:57 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:22:46 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 20:31:41 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 20:33:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:35:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host203-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:36:41 <Wolf01> hello 20:36:45 <LeviathNL> hi 20:36:49 <Gonozal_VIII> hi 20:45:55 <Belugas> ih 20:46:09 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A5E92.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 21:05:18 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.91] has joined #openttd 21:07:03 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:50 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 21:14:31 <helb> Is it possible to change autosave interval from (rcon) console? I can't find it on the wiki... 21:18:29 <Wolf01> search for the variable name 21:19:02 <Wolf01> in the configure patches code 21:22:41 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not a patch 21:23:13 <Wolf01> really? i must see 21:23:30 <Gonozal_VIII> it's in game options not configure patches 21:24:09 <Wolf01> oh yes, i see 21:24:31 <Wolf01> so i think that changing it with rcon is not possible 21:30:24 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.91] has joined #openttd 21:32:14 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:17 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 21:33:57 *** a1271 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 21:36:49 <helb> Wolf01: okay, thanks... 21:37:13 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:40:21 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.] 21:52:30 <LeviathNL> making a drivetrough station on a street tile costs the same amount as without one, I think it is better if it is less. 21:53:51 <LeviathNL> with the normal prices it isn't much of a difference but with grfs like the basecost mod it is. You also have to pay for the foundation again which is very expensive 21:55:54 <Ammler> LeviathNL: again, foudations take the price from raise/lower land, so it has nothing to do with the grf 21:56:57 <Ammler> and btw, you can change the values or deactivate some i.e. for you, you should deacitvate changes for raise/lower land 21:57:28 <LeviathNL> I know now, this has nothing to do with the foundations being high priced but just the fact it uses these costs when building a drivetrough on an roadtile 21:58:54 <LeviathNL> it is a suggestion for a change in the openttd source, not the grf 21:59:49 <LeviathNL> the example of using the basecost mod is just to show the difference is not always a small amount 21:59:56 <Ammler> yeah, I would suggest to add a new base cost for foundations 22:00:40 <Ammler> yeah, we liked to have terraforming very expensive 22:01:28 <Ammler> LeviathNL: you know the wiki page about basecosts.grf? 22:01:45 <Ammler> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Basecosts.grf 22:01:57 <LeviathNL> no but if you want to point me to the parameter settings I already tweaked them to my liking 22:02:22 <Ammler> :) 22:02:42 <Ammler> its also easy to add other costs, if you need 22:03:00 <Ammler> It was a "fast" hack for wwottdgd 22:03:29 <Ammler> this things would be changeable: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=BaseCosts 22:03:33 <LeviathNL> I indeed would also like a separate foundation basecost but right now this is giving me very challenging gameplay :P 22:06:14 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 22:06:14 <dihedral> Ammler: does basecost work with 0.5.3? 22:06:25 <Ammler> of course 22:06:36 <Ammler> at least, it should 22:06:37 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-222-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:48 <Gonozal_VIII> to raise land you only hate to dump some dirt there, for a foundation you need to build a wall and fill it with dirt, foundations shouldn't be cheaper than raising 22:07:02 <Ammler> only tested it wiht nightly ottd and ttdp 22:07:05 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-135-215.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:20 <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: it depense what do you rise/lower 22:09:46 <LeviathNL> I'm afraid basecosts are not easily added because it seems they are stored in the savegame. 22:09:54 <Gonozal_VIII> of course you could use cheaper foundations but the ones ingame look very solid and expensive 22:09:56 <Ammler> terraforming should cost like basecost*10^[how many tiles do you like rise/lower] 22:11:36 <Gonozal_VIII> then you would have to raise every corner one by one 22:11:56 <Ammler> LeviathNL: if you like to change a running game, you need to rename it to scn and edit it there 22:12:12 <Ammler> (save the difficult settings) 22:12:48 <Ammler> Gonozal_VIII: thats why foundations should be cheaper 22:12:49 <LeviathNL> I meant there is a chance no free bytes are available 22:12:55 <LeviathNL> in the savegame format 22:13:49 <Ammler> oh, possible, thos base costs seems to be there since TTO 22:16:28 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:35:43 <DaleStan> Ammler: No additional base costs have been discussed. Adding new factors has been done (see industry prop 23), but new costs has not. 22:37:25 <Ammler> DaleStan: so would it make sence to add a additional factor for foundations? 22:38:00 <LeviathNL> what is the functional difference between new factors and base costs? 22:38:08 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-203-4.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:38:47 <Ammler> LeviathNL: those values in the grf are factors 22:40:17 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-171-81.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:40:18 <Ammler> NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost * 2^(n-8) <-- basecosts.grf does change n 22:40:53 <Ammler> (theoretically, you could also make everything cheaper 22:41:35 <DaleStan> The base costs are modified for inflation. The factors are not. Hence why the base costs are only modified, never set. 22:44:07 *** liona29 [~liona29@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 22:45:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EBD4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:45:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11430 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11421) [FS#1421]: there was still one case that would cause a crash... 22:45:13 <LeviathNL> Ammler, why the 2^-8? NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost *2^n * 2^-8 22:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> LeviathNL: to be able to make things cheaper 22:46:19 <Eddi|zuHause> without the need of signed values 22:46:29 *** liona29 [~liona29@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 22:48:20 <Ammler> DaleStan: so its possible to add foundations as own factor? whats needed for? 22:49:04 <LeviathNL> do you mean without using floats :s ? you don't need signed values but a value <1 or am I wrong? 22:51:14 <Ammler> if you like a factor 1 ( just use 8), NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost * 2^(8-8) 22:51:24 <Wolf01> 'night 22:51:27 <Eddi|zuHause> LeviathNL: the 2^ is to not need floats, the -8 is to not need signed values 22:51:27 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host203-233-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> for n=7, you have 2^(7-8) = 0.5 22:52:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. everything gets half the price 22:52:09 <Ammler> @calc 1*2**(8-8) 22:52:09 <DorpsGek> Ammler: 1 22:52:17 *** ludde [~ludde@ua-83-227-238-252.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:17 <Ammler> @calc 1*2**(7-8) 22:52:17 <DorpsGek> Ammler: 0.5 22:52:45 <Ammler> @calc 1*2**(9-8) 22:52:45 <DorpsGek> Ammler: 2 22:52:48 <LeviathNL> I was not thinking about it as parameters 22:53:02 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 22:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> n is the value specified in the grf 22:53:28 <Ammler> [23:40] <Ammler> NewBaseCost = OldBaseCost * 2^(n-8) <-- basecosts.grf does change n 22:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> grf values are generally 8 bit unsigned (hex) values, unless otherwise specified 22:57:53 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB65F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:03:46 <ln-> why is "captain's log" translated as "computerlochbuch der Enterprise, kapitÀn Picard ..."? 23:06:28 <Gonozal_VIII> [00:06:05] Bartleby: weil jegliche synchro scheiÃe ist [00:06:10] Bartleby: IMMER und ÃBERALL 23:07:04 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 23:07:12 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> ln-: because english speakers aim for simplicity in the language, germans for complexity 23:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's why you often find one german sentence translated into 3 english sentences 23:14:26 <Sacro> we liike to keep it simple 23:14:45 <Gonozal_VIII> raumÃŒbergreifendes GroÃgrÃŒn = tree :-) 23:15:15 <ln-> ok 23:20:34 <Gonozal_VIII> or that: Falle Schnapp fÃŒr Maustier, grau = mousetrap 23:21:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "Falle, schnapp, fÃŒr Kleintier, grau" 23:21:11 <Gonozal_VIII> ok... 23:21:15 <Gonozal_VIII> sorry 23:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but this is kind of an extreme case :p 23:24:09 *** lolman is now known as John 23:24:13 <ln-> sounds like military way of expressing it 23:24:30 <Gonozal_VIII> it is 23:24:35 <ln-> "shirt, T, green" 23:26:02 *** John is now known as lolman 23:26:21 <ln-> why is there no EU directive yet that requires dubbing all programs? 23:29:36 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl51B78841.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> why would there be? 23:34:33 <ln-> it wouldn't be the first nor most useless directive. 23:35:12 *** Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:17 *** exe [~zgibhy@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 23:41:00 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: btw, what kind of personal guns did you have in the military? 23:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> err... i'm not sure if that is even allowed to be said 23:41:48 <ln-> wtf 23:42:49 <ln-> over here it is completely public information that virtually everyone carries a weapon like this: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/index.dsp?level=63&equipment=37 23:47:05 *** exe [~zgibhy@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:58 *** lidi20 [~lidi20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has joined #openttd 23:48:22 *** exe [~zgibhy@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 23:48:36 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:49:55 *** lidi20 [~lidi20@d033.dhcp212-198-248.noos.fr] has quit [] 23:51:15 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-38-134.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:31 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause: but you did have weapons? or is even that a secret? 23:51:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 23:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 23:52:06 <fjb> ln-: The standard weapon of the german army is the Heckler & Koch G3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_G3 23:52:48 <Eddi|zuHause> actually it is being replaced by the G36 23:53:33 <fjb> I'm not upto date. :-) 23:55:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "The G36 has replaced the G3 as the main infantry weapon of the Bundeswehr since 1997, a process that is now considered complete" 23:57:33 <ln-> how can it be on wikipedia if it is a secret? 23:59:11 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd