Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:00 <Tefad> or early 90's 00:00:02 <Tefad> i forget 00:00:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> in the early 90s i played monkey island 00:00:58 <Gonozal_VIII> scorched earth :-) 00:01:02 <Tefad> yeah! 00:01:16 <Tefad> don't forget gorilla 00:01:20 <Tefad> nibbles 00:01:41 * fjb played empire http://www.wolfpackempire.com/ 00:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, those two i played, too 00:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> the first game i remember was sokoban 00:02:25 <oh> what's that game where you travel around some island and solve puzzles? 00:02:26 <Tefad> i remember oregon trail and number munchers 00:02:39 <Tefad> ecoquest 00:02:39 <Eddi|zuHause3> oh: that's monkey island 00:02:40 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-152-50-202.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, several games play on islands 00:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> like i once played kings quest II 00:03:19 <Tefad> wp gapper 00:03:22 <Tefad> er 00:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause3> but i never got through 00:03:36 <oh> I don't think monkey island is what I used to play though :/ 00:03:37 <Tefad> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gapper_%28computer_game%29 00:03:50 <Tefad> it's like qix but with a fixed grid 00:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> well, you have to come up with a more specific description than "island and puzzles" :p 00:04:14 <oh> damn, I cant go to bed till I've got the name ;< 00:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> because that fits like 90% of games of that genre 00:04:34 <oh> my early 90's memories arent that solid ;P 00:05:41 <Gonozal_VIII> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID9kfv5Hgc8 <-- monkey island :-) but german... 00:07:48 <Sacro> BAN HIM! 00:07:58 <Gonozal_VIII> aaaah 00:08:07 <oh> http://abandonia.com/games/224/download/TheIslandofDr.Brain.htm 00:08:08 <oh> there it is! 00:08:10 <oh> !! 00:08:15 <SmatZ> yes, Dr.Brain, nice game 00:08:15 <oh> so many hours wasted! 00:08:26 <Sacro> <oh> there it is! <-- haha, just what i thought 00:08:29 <oh> :D 00:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think i know that one 00:14:18 <Sacro> hmmm 00:14:25 <Sacro> shall i purchase a Dec MicroVax 00:15:03 <oh> found a download for dr. brain 00:15:06 <oh> dosbox here I come <3 00:16:17 <fjb> Telling in public that you are violating some copyright is really intelligent... 00:16:43 <Sacro> fjb: cough... channelname? 00:17:36 <Gonozal_VIII> what does the channelname have to do with the copyright of some old game? 00:17:44 <Sacro> ... 00:17:50 <Sacro> are you being sarcastic? 00:18:16 <exe> everyone uses pirated ttd? 00:18:30 * fjb has an offical ttd licence. 00:18:36 <Gonozal_VIII> i have a cd :-) 00:20:32 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-234-209.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 00:20:55 <Sacro> ooh an A3 Wacom tablet 00:21:26 <fjb> Buy it. 00:21:34 <Sacro> £500 :( 00:23:24 <fjb> New or used? You can get one cheap on eBay, if you are lucky. 00:23:38 <Sacro> used 00:23:39 <Gonozal_VIII> but i wonder why nobody replaces the missing parts to make openttd a fully free game 00:23:41 <Sacro> err new 00:24:06 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: because it would be one hell of a job even for a talented artist. 00:24:17 <Gonozal_VIII> is it that much? 00:24:32 <oh> fjb: it's abandonware 00:24:49 <ln-> oh: there's no such thing as abandonware. 00:24:52 <Sacro> oh: no such thing 00:24:53 <Gonozal_VIII> abandonware doesn't mean anything for copyright 00:24:53 <oh> and in any case not criminalized here 00:25:06 <fjb> There is no such think as abandomware. 00:25:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:25:57 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: do you know how many sprites do the original data files contain? 00:26:16 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea 00:26:38 <Belugas> roughtly 5000 00:27:12 <oh> isn't that what newgfx is for anyway? 00:27:34 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-190-172.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:51 <Gonozal_VIII> that's a lot... but most of them should be easy to draw or have only small differences to other sprites 00:27:59 <Belugas> or exactly 4791 for the main file 00:28:33 <ln-> 4793 00:28:39 <Belugas> [19:29] <oh> isn't that what newgfx is for anyway? <--- that's newgrf, and no, the purpose of newgrf is not to replace original grf, but to add some more 00:29:06 <Belugas> could be, ln- 00:31:20 <oh> Belugas: sure, but isn't the plan to have the newgfx project's 32bpp art replace the old, copyrighted stuff? 00:31:28 <oh> eventually 00:31:36 <SmatZ> ever tried compiling openttd with gcc-4.3.0 preview? it will need some -Wno-xxx changes, or a lot of code changes :-x 00:32:52 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: take a look: http://uselesscode.net/gfx.png 00:32:56 <SmatZ> hmm well, it is not that bad :) 00:35:01 <oh> @sprite 3907, haven't seen that in ages :) 00:35:11 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5acf3968.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 00:36:15 <ln-> the file goes away in 20 seconds 00:37:02 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acef622.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:02 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 00:37:25 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-234-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:39:26 <Gonozal_VIII> for most of those sprites there are very good looking newgrf that replace them 00:40:03 <fjb> Now I know why nobody is playing Toyland... 00:40:17 <Bjarni> I just read the greatest thing about daylight saving hour ever 00:40:25 <Bjarni> Japan has it... in two cities only 00:40:37 <Bjarni> makes you wonder about travelling between cities 00:42:11 <fjb> Just travel only between that two cities. 00:42:26 <geoff_k_> its supposed to save daylight i believe but it always gets dark quicker, if not already by time i get out of bed 00:42:51 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 00:42:56 <geoff_k_> not sure the sun comes up here anyway lately 00:43:08 <geoff_k_> been almost dark at midday a few times 00:43:10 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 00:43:38 <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't work for a normal day only for those weird people that wake up in the middle of the night 00:44:29 <geoff_k_> i tihnk its just done here to see who pays attention its a trick 00:44:43 <Belugas> oh, eventually, yes. but i tough you were confusing newgrf with newgfx, sorry 00:44:43 <Gonozal_VIII> :-) 00:46:28 <geoff_k_> i went shop hour early a few weeks back not because i forgot the clocks had changed but because i looked at time on my mobile which had the wrong time still :) 00:46:52 <Tefad> phone didn't know the timezone laws? 00:47:20 <geoff_k_> mine don;t seem to but then i never bother with it, spents most its time with a flat battery its more peaceful that way 00:47:44 <Tefad> heh 00:47:57 <Tefad> my phone syncs to something close to the official US time 00:49:00 <Gonozal_VIII> mine syncs to a time when phones didn't sync themselves 00:49:10 <Tefad> heh 00:49:26 <Tefad> jan 1 1980? 00:52:05 <geoff_k_> the one thing i hate about phones is peopel who dont get to the point and then go away, they just want to talk and tell their whole days events 00:52:30 <geoff_k_> as if i would be really interested 00:52:37 <Gonozal_VIII> why is there a 12:30 am but no 24:30 00:54:46 <ln-> i have a question 00:55:09 <geoff_k_> time can be what it wants i have enough trouble remembering what year it is and who is priminister sometimes 00:55:58 <geoff_k_> i've been known to fail on both questions 00:56:35 <Gonozal_VIII> good for you ln, want to share it with us? 00:57:04 <geoff_k_> i actualy failed a job interview on the year i asked the guy what date was i said ... erm.. oh what year 00:57:12 <ln-> yes, i just want everyone's attention first. 00:57:40 <ln-> the question: can one use multiple CPUs under DOS? 00:57:51 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:52 <Tefad> i don't think so. 00:58:06 <Tefad> highly unlikely without a crazy kernel. 00:58:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11472 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Give enuma for both the widget numbers and the used smallmap currently used type 00:58:42 <Gonozal_VIII> -a 00:59:01 <ln-> Tefad: but the DOS itself doesn't need to know about it, because a program that is started gets full control of the whole computer. 00:59:26 <Tefad> in that case yes, you can run a dos program that loads linux and make use of multiple CPUs. 00:59:37 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:59:40 <Tefad> what you do is probably not going to be "DOS" 00:59:54 <ln-> noooo, not linux. 00:59:59 <Tefad> i doubt you'd be able to communicate back to dos functions easily 01:00:11 <Tefad> dos is not a multithreaded OS for one 01:00:49 <Tefad> even win9x doesn't support multiple CPus 01:00:53 <ln-> no, but that doesn't mean one's own application couldn't multithread. 01:01:05 <Tefad> if your application uses the OS ... 01:01:19 <Tefad> the OS provides the threads 01:01:25 <Tefad> DOS doesn't provide threads 01:01:40 <Tefad> you'd essentially be writing an OS for your program 01:01:45 <ln-> true, that's why the application itself has to implement threads. 01:02:15 <ln-> one can achieve thread-like behavior e.g. with active objects. 01:02:16 <Tefad> DOS uses interrupts to simulated multitasking 01:02:27 <Tefad> -d 01:04:36 <ln-> does using multiple CPUs imply using protected mode? 01:04:51 <Tefad> i've never really done low level programming on a PC 01:05:01 <ln-> me neither 01:05:09 *** Stoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:09 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 01:05:26 <Tefad> i would imagine you'd need some way of keeping one CPU from writing to data belonging to the other CPU 01:05:30 <Tefad> (process based) 01:05:37 <Gonozal_VIII> why do you want to use multiple cpus in dos anyways? 01:05:43 <Tefad> or something goofy. 01:06:02 <Tefad> dos is lightweight, boots in mere milliseconds on modern hardware. 01:06:11 <Tefad> however it's rather limited ; ) 01:06:56 <Gonozal_VIII> openttd server running dos? 01:07:10 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: obviously one's brand new 8-core is not fully taken advantage of if only one cpu is utilized. 01:07:24 <Tefad> why would you run dos on it 01:07:29 <Gonozal_VIII> 8 cores... nice 01:07:34 <ln-> no, i don' 01:07:37 <Tefad> run linux on it with 8 dosboxes or something.. 01:07:54 <Tefad> you're also not using all 64bits 01:08:16 <ln-> i don't have a 8-core machine yet, not even 2-core, but that's not very far away in the future when one can buy such with sensible amount of money. 01:08:16 <Tefad> there's barely any support for 32bit in dos, let alone 64bit 01:08:31 <Tefad> why would you need to run DOS on the hardware 01:08:40 <ln-> because it's possible. 01:08:58 <Tefad> i can't think of any dos programs (aside from weird hardware-specific ones) that i /need/ to run on the hardware 01:09:10 <Tefad> dosbox or qemu is plenty fast 01:09:14 <ln-> ain't it great that the state-of-the-art hardware still probably runs MS-DOS 1.0? 01:09:38 <Tefad> ln-: not really. it prevents us from moving very far 01:09:52 <Tefad> we have to bootstrap from an environment capable of running decades old software 01:10:02 <ln-> there was and is the more advanced PowerPC, of course. 01:10:02 <Tefad> it's like a rube goldberg machine 01:10:09 <Gonozal_VIII> there can be too much bachwards compability 01:10:10 <ln-> as well as e.g. UltraSPARC. 01:10:17 <Gonozal_VIII> -h+k 01:10:41 <Tefad> those platforms aren't very uniform, and generally have a single OS associated with a given manufacturer 01:10:50 <Tefad> (or linux) 01:11:30 <Sacro> <3 linus 01:11:31 <ln-> (or *bsd) 01:11:32 <Tefad> with the PC you can run all sorts of crap and it evolved without abrupt changes because there are many many manufacturers involved 01:11:32 <Sacro> err 01:11:33 <Sacro> linux 01:12:12 <fjb> DOS doesn't use multiple CPUs. Your application can ofcourse, but only if it switches to protected mode. But you are not able to use any features of DOS then. You have even to provide your own file system. 01:12:20 <Tefad> for example i can't install Mac System 6 on a current Mac 01:12:37 <Tefad> fjb: so essentially he has to write his own OS. 01:12:51 <fjb> Tefad: yes. 01:13:00 <ln-> fjb: is this implication "multiple cpus -> protected mode" a fact? 01:13:10 <fjb> Yes 01:13:18 <ln-> damn 01:13:39 <Tefad> and if the program intends to ever return control back to DOS (or able to allow interrupts) he has to be very careful when programming, eh? 01:13:42 <Gonozal_VIII> run multiple instances of dos :D 01:13:58 <Tefad> Gonozal_VIII: that'd require careful trickery 01:14:09 <Tefad> and probably emulation of certain things 01:14:16 <fjb> But what would you do with multiple kernels when you only have 640k ram? 01:14:20 <Tefad> i think desqview would be somewhere to start 01:14:27 <Tefad> fjb ^ 01:14:47 <Gonozal_VIII> 640k ram on a 8 core hardware? 01:14:55 <Tefad> Gonozal_VIII: that's all DOS really sees 01:14:57 <Tefad> maybe 1MB 01:15:02 <Tefad> himem is an addon. 01:15:04 <ln-> hmmm, doesn't x86 have support for running stuff on a virtual 8088? 01:15:07 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... 01:15:16 <Tefad> ln-: look up desqview 01:15:29 <ln-> had it once, it messed up my config.sys and autoexec.bat 01:15:43 <ln-> and i doubt it supports multiple cpus either. 01:15:47 <fjb> DOS boots fast, but everything else is limited to 640k or becomes dead slow because it has to push everything through a small memory window. And modeswitching is also dead slow. 01:16:27 <Tefad> woo! 01:16:39 <Tefad> oh also dos is very compact. 01:16:47 <Tefad> however you'd probably be better off using QNX or something ; ) 01:16:57 <Gonozal_VIII> so dos apps could use the cpu cache as ram?^^ 01:17:02 <fjb> 80368 inventet a mode with virtual 8086s. But I don't know if that survived to modern cpus. 01:17:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11473 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace two more instances of widget/smalltype numbers by enum(-a) values 01:17:23 <Tefad> fjb: isn't that what makes WoW possible? or am i on crack 01:17:41 <Tefad> windows' dos console 01:18:03 <fjb> Hm, maybe, don't know that much about the internals of windows. 01:18:19 <Tefad> fjb: i think all features from 8086 are carried on into modern CPUs unless the CPU is a special edition 01:18:27 <Tefad> (like some 386s that removed real mode) 01:18:34 <fjb> Date 20 at least is... 01:18:41 <Tefad> ? 01:18:48 <fjb> Gate not date 01:19:05 <Tefad> is that the turbo thing? 01:19:18 <Tefad> maybe i'm confusing stuff. 01:19:28 <Tefad> or FPU 01:19:29 <Tefad> meh 01:19:56 * ln- wants Core 2 SX 01:19:57 <fjb> It is a switch that enables dos to use 64k more adress space in real mode. 01:21:29 <Tefad> how.. quaint 01:21:29 <SmatZ> Tefad: some 386 don't support RM? 01:21:35 <Tefad> SmatZ: one moment. they're used in embedded systems. not PCs 01:22:21 <ln-> i guess it's too much to expect that there's 64-bit support in real mode with current cpus... 01:22:24 <SmatZ> Tefad: strange :) 01:22:56 <SmatZ> fjb: yup :) and on top of that, it allows you to acces every odd megabyte of memory :) 01:23:31 <Tefad> actually it was the 80376, my bad. the 80386EX replaced it (and retains real mode apparently) 01:24:18 <fjb> Amd64 doesn't have the virtual 8086 mode anymore, not even in compatibility mode. 01:24:19 <Tefad> don't let number fool you with sequence, the 80376 was a modified 80386SX. 01:24:41 <Tefad> fjb: really? 01:24:48 <Tefad> what does dosemu use 01:25:03 <SmatZ> Tefad: hmm really strange that the investment into chip redesign with removing RM is worth it :) 01:25:11 <fjb> Real mode is only 16 bit. 01:25:21 <Tefad> fjb: are you sure the chip doesn't have it, or the mode doesn't allow use it? 01:25:33 <SmatZ> not to be misunderstood, when running 32bit OS, the v86 mode is available 01:25:35 <Tefad> long mode doesn't allow v8086 01:25:38 <fjb> Don't know what it uses then. Kind of an emulation I guess. 01:26:12 <fjb> Compatibility mode is the 32bit mode of Amd64. 01:26:33 <SmatZ> Tefad: the task types of V86 are invalid in long mode / compatibility mode 01:27:19 <SmatZ> hmm I think "legacy mode" = 16 or 32bit mode, "long mode" = 64bit mode, "compatibility mode" = running 32bit app under 64bit OS 01:27:43 <Tefad> i think that's correct 01:27:47 <fjb> Is the so called "dos box" still a real dos mode? Or is it just a command shell for XP? 01:28:00 <Tefad> fjb: it's v86 01:28:03 <SmatZ> dosbox is an emulator 01:28:09 <SmatZ> dosemu is running v86 01:28:09 <Tefad> SmatZ: not "dosbox" 01:28:12 <Tefad> "dos box" 01:28:13 <SmatZ> ah... 01:28:16 <SmatZ> sorry :) 01:28:28 <Tefad> fjb: "dos box" was never real mode 01:28:34 <Tefad> it was always v86 01:28:41 <Tefad> which is why 64bit windows dosn't have a dos box 01:28:45 <fjb> Ok, I meant that. 01:28:48 <Tefad> or support for 16bit apps 01:29:11 <fjb> But anyway, there is no use of DOS anymore on modern CPUs. 01:29:26 <Tefad> some win95 installers, while containing actual 32bit software, were 16bit. 01:29:40 <Tefad> fjb: well, any use that makes sense 01:29:55 <Tefad> if you have a PC bios, you still have the foundation of DOS 01:30:32 <Tefad> i don't think any modern OSs make much use of bios calls 01:30:55 <SmatZ> Tefad: depends what you call 'modern', but BIOSes are used for power management 01:31:53 <fjb> Modern systems have two kinds of bios, 16bit and 32bit. 01:31:55 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77ACF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:32:13 <Tefad> i've never played around much with the 32bit part 01:32:36 <fjb> Any modern OS uses the 32bit parts of the bios. 01:32:51 <Tefad> how does EFI fit into this 01:33:11 <fjb> EFI? 01:33:59 <SmatZ> hmm too long time since I read any text about Itanium :-x 01:34:45 <Tefad> unreal mode 01:34:54 <Tefad> EFI is a new kind of firmware 01:35:00 <Tefad> used on Macs i think 01:35:16 <Tefad> (the devkit macs had pc-bios btw) 01:36:20 <Tefad> unreal mode is a subset of real mode allowing for >1MB memory access 01:36:29 <fjb> Don't know the acronym EFI, there are too many 3 letter acronyms. Macs have a new kind of bios. Maybe it gets used on more platforms in future. 01:36:46 <Rotonen> wiki it 01:36:49 <Tefad> extensible firmware interface 01:37:02 <Tefad> it's a pre-bios kind of thing 01:37:23 <Tefad> er no 01:37:37 <Tefad> n/m IGGNORRREEE MEEEE </venture bros> 01:38:07 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77B02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:11 <SmatZ> :-) 01:38:34 <SmatZ> also, why are you talking about EFI and 'unreal mode' together? 01:38:42 <Tefad> no idea 01:38:49 <SmatZ> https://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/x8664-multi-install-guide/s1-ia64-intro-efi-shell.html EFI and Itaniums... 01:38:49 <Tefad> my brain works in mysterious ways : D 01:38:52 <SmatZ> :-) 01:39:14 <Tefad> the EFI stuff can fall out, none here seems to know how it works ; ) 01:40:02 <Tefad> EFI is similar to openfirmware 01:41:00 *** Bartleby [~Bartleby@dslb-088-065-135-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041217]] 01:41:12 <SmatZ> I got a printed documentation for Itaniums... I was rather anhusiast about it, when it was new :) I will look into it for some information 01:41:21 <SmatZ> dated "August 2000" 01:41:55 <SmatZ> hmm electronic documents allow faster searching 01:42:01 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:43:01 <fjb> Itaniums are nice, when you have an OS for them. But they are too power hungry for my home. 01:43:12 <Tefad> heh 01:43:32 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-138-199.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:16 <Tefad> don't they also have crappy performance for dollar 01:49:53 <Tefad> haha, intel developed a software emulator faster than the hardware emulator for running x86 code on itaniums 01:50:59 <fjb> Yes, but that is not astonishing. 01:51:19 <fjb> And the performance is not that crappy. 01:52:01 <Tefad> i think the product was well overhyped 01:52:05 <Tefad> just like the p4 01:53:10 <Tefad> i'm no intel-basher.. i have no x86 that isn't intel (well i think i own a k6-2 chip, but it's not installed anywhere). six p4's 01:53:27 <Tefad> mostly handed down to me 01:54:07 <SmatZ> shame on you :-p 01:54:19 <Rotonen> netburst was an unique concept 01:54:33 <Rotonen> with or without proper english 01:55:00 <fjb> And it is good that is was unique and stays unique. That happens when marketing dictates the development. 01:55:12 <Tefad> i have a sparc and an alpha 01:55:56 <Tefad> neither will boot an OS 01:56:42 <fjb> Why don't they? 01:56:49 <Tefad> i wish i knew 01:57:03 <Tefad> the alpha will post, sort of 01:57:16 <Tefad> alphastations are weird creatures 01:57:34 <Tefad> er it's an personal workstation 01:57:47 <Tefad> an? bah. 600MHz iirc 01:58:14 <Tefad> it emulates x86 to interface with the graphics BIOS (PC bios, but card was only made for DEC.. go figure) 01:58:50 <fjb> Hm, I never owned an Alpha. 01:59:14 <Tefad> two double-height sticks of 512MB DIMMs 01:59:20 <Tefad> with ECC 01:59:27 <Tefad> buffered too i think 02:00:03 <Tefad> ram sticks are ginormous ; ) 02:00:10 <Tefad> they're taller than half their length. 02:01:37 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has joined #openttd 02:05:18 <fjb> Just looking at the german phorum I wonder why users of TTDP and OpenTTD always try to vage war on each other. 02:05:53 <Sacro> forum 02:06:10 <SmatZ> really, do they? 02:06:35 <SmatZ> night 02:06:37 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:06:47 <fjb> Sacro: Thank you, my english is not the best. 02:07:19 <Gonozal_VIII> why what's happening there? i don't read the german forum 02:08:54 *** Stoffe [~mirc@h2n2fls308o838.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:08:54 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 02:09:07 <fjb> Some OpenTTD users claim that TTDP is already dead and nobody uses it anymore. Some TTDP users clain that OpenTTD 0.6 brings nothing new and that everything is stolen from TTDP. etc... 02:09:08 <Sacro> fjb: *English 02:09:28 <fjb> :-P 02:11:40 * Sacro goes to bed 02:12:05 <Gonozal_VIII> well.. i think it would be better to have only one game of that type and all programmers work on that but both exist, both have some things in which they are better than the other and people that prefer that, so you can't just discontinue one of them 02:15:23 <fjb> I don't think it would be better to have only one of them. As you say both have their strong and their weak points. And it looks like the development teams are working more with each other than against each other. 02:29:01 <fjb> I should go to bed. Good night. 02:29:10 <Gonozal_VIII> good night 02:29:14 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'] 02:29:59 *** oh [~oh@c96F5BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: oh] 02:39:26 <Gonozal_VIII> woa where does that one way road switch come from 02:39:51 <Gonozal_VIII> didn't notice that before 02:48:04 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82812.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:48:32 <Gonozal_VIII> is there some kind of trick to do transfer in both directions? 02:49:47 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83FF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 02:49:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 02:52:52 *** glx [~glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:10:35 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid passengers... 03:30:14 <ln-> hmm, what an interesting file: 03:30:20 <ln-> NOTICE %s :TSUNAMI <target> <secs> = Special packeter that wont be blocke 03:30:21 <ln-> d by most firewalls 03:30:24 <ln-> NOTICE %s :PAN <target> <port> <secs> = An advanced syn flooder that will ki 03:30:27 <ln-> ll most network drivers 03:30:30 <ln-> NOTICE %s :UDP <target> <port> <secs> = A udp flooder 04:00:54 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:07:12 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F55348.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:13:09 *** pPACO_BAN [PACO@CPE0011d8690c25-CM001225db7ae8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:17:15 *** Tefad_ [~tefad@c-71-63-10-8.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 04:17:39 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> xenon.oftc.net quits: a1270, Phazorx, Arpad, Tefad 04:26:17 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 04:26:34 *** Arpad [~Gali@sud.globenet.org] has joined #openttd 04:27:18 <Gekz> ln-: what's that 04:35:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11474 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt smallmap_gui.cpp): 04:35:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow to resize on creation the smallmap gui in order to show all the types industry available. 04:35:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow to enable/disable individually or all at once, the industries shown on small map. 04:35:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This will permit to easily find those that are of some interest for the player. 04:35:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Heavily based on gule's patch 04:36:23 <Gonozal_VIII> wow 04:38:05 <Gonozal_VIII> Feature: Allow to resize on creation the smallmap gui in order to show all the types industry available <-- that's new to me, nice.. and the rest is obviously cool 04:38:47 <Belugas> gule did a good job 04:38:58 <Belugas> i've just cleaned it up 04:39:03 <Belugas> going to sleep 04:39:04 <Belugas> bye 04:39:11 <Gonozal_VIII> good night 05:03:51 *** pPACO_BAN is now known as Phazorx 05:05:53 *** goddamnit [~De_Ghost@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 05:09:41 <mikk36|work> mornin' :) 05:11:31 <goddamnit> www.YouTube.com 05:11:44 *** goddamnit is now known as De_Ghost 05:11:51 <Gonozal_VIII> :P 05:12:02 <mikk36|work> bad mood ? :P 05:12:54 <De_Ghost> ? 05:12:56 <Gonozal_VIII> bah... don't say morning before i even started sleeping 05:13:03 <De_Ghost> good night 05:13:11 <De_Ghost> good night!!!!!!!!!!!!! 05:13:16 <mikk36|work> Gonozal_VIII, i just arrived at work, 7:13 here :) 05:13:21 <De_Ghost> SCHAAKMAT!! 05:13:27 <Gonozal_VIII> 6:13 here... 05:13:33 <mikk36|work> ehe 05:14:36 <Gonozal_VIII> where is it 7? russia? 05:14:48 <mikk36|work> estonia 05:14:52 <mikk36|work> russia is 8 already 05:14:55 <Gonozal_VIII> ah 05:15:17 <Gonozal_VIII> i thought estonia had cet 05:15:20 <mikk36|work> you're +1 in austria, remember ? :P 05:15:24 <mikk36|work> eet here :) 05:16:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know the time zones that well but i know that they are bent around very much 05:16:55 <mikk36|work> well, not that much here in europe though 05:17:24 <Gonozal_VIII> i think there should be one between france and germany but isn't 05:17:42 <mikk36|work> ? 05:17:55 <mikk36|work> one more between them ? 05:18:10 <mikk36|work> don't see a point actually 05:18:58 <mikk36|work> i really don't like those half-hour zones 05:19:16 <Gonozal_VIII> no not half hour 05:19:37 <mikk36|work> and to move germany to +2 would be a bit nonsense i think 05:20:03 <Gonozal_VIII> http://www.netschool.de/erd/timezone.gif 05:20:13 <mikk36|work> oh 05:20:19 <mikk36|work> well, then :P 05:20:40 <mikk36|work> i would have categorized france as UTC though :P 05:20:47 <mikk36|work> if it was up to me 05:20:50 <mikk36|work> also spain 05:22:03 <Gonozal_VIII> as i said... it should be between germany and france 05:22:27 <mikk36|work> uhm 05:22:43 <mikk36|work> that map doesn't show estonia as +2 05:22:47 <mikk36|work> shows as +3 05:23:23 <mikk36|work> http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/images/time1pr.gif 05:23:27 <mikk36|work> here's a better one 05:23:39 <mikk36|work> portugal was also wrong there 05:28:29 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... stupid timezones.. they should use the same time everywhere, doesn't matter when the sun rises or whatever 05:28:37 <mikk36|work> lol 05:28:45 <Tefad_> computers don't care 05:29:03 <Tefad_> most of them store time as seconds elapsed since the UNIX Epoch 05:29:27 <Gonozal_VIII> yes... just use the unix timecode 05:29:36 <mikk36|work> how does motherboard store it ? :P 05:29:44 <De_Ghost> estonia/ 05:29:47 <De_Ghost> are you black? 05:29:53 <Gonozal_VIII> ? 05:29:56 <mikk36|work> De_Ghost, are you stupid ? 05:30:01 <De_Ghost> yes 05:30:12 <Tefad_> motherboards don't carry timezone information that i know of 05:30:19 <mikk36|work> wiki estonia from google :) 05:30:32 <Tefad_> it's up to the OS to track timezone 05:30:37 <Tefad_> many store time in UTC 05:30:45 <Tefad_> windows though, likes to use localtime. 05:30:51 <De_Ghost> i though mobo just store A time 05:31:04 <Tefad_> right, without timezone. 05:31:05 <De_Ghost> like a 24 hr clock 05:31:10 <Tefad_> they have date too 05:31:14 <De_Ghost> wait it have date 05:31:25 <De_Ghost> been a while since i had to hit bios :) 05:31:30 <mikk36|work> well, unix timecode doesn't store zone either 05:31:31 <De_Ghost> stupid school... 05:31:37 <Tefad_> mikk36|work: yes it does 05:31:48 <Tefad_> UTC or GMT depending on application i think. 05:31:56 <Tefad_> (one has leapseconds, one doesn't) 05:32:13 <mikk36|work> UTC is GMT 05:32:16 <mikk36|work> they are the same 05:32:23 <Tefad_> no. leap seconds. 05:33:54 <Tefad_> i think UT1 and GMT are the same 05:35:33 <Tefad_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Time actually i think they're all three different. : x 05:36:29 <Gonozal_VIII> [06:29:43] De_Ghost: estonia/ [06:29:46] De_Ghost: are you black? <-- i still don't get that question 05:36:54 <Gonozal_VIII> what does the one have to do with the other :S 05:39:43 <mikk36|work> De_Ghost, where do/did you think estonia is ? 05:45:32 <Tefad_> In 1928 the term Universal Time was adopted internationally as a more precise term than Greenwich Mean Time, because the GMT could refer to either an astronomical day starting at noon or a civil day starting at midnight. However, the term Greenwich Mean Time persists in common usage to this day in reference to civil timekeeping. 05:45:42 <Tefad_> we were both wrong : x 05:46:20 <Gonozal_VIII> oh.. didn't know that days could start at noon 05:48:26 <Tefad_> UTC is an approximation of UT1 that can vary by up to 900ms and has occasional leap seconds. 05:49:03 <Tefad_> UT1 seems to be the definitive continuous time. 05:50:12 <Tefad_> 3ms uncertainty per day due to variations in earth's rotation 05:50:33 <Tefad_> the seconds are slightly different from SI units 05:50:56 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not good... 05:50:59 <Tefad_> SI is defined by atomic decay.. never changing (unless there's something about the universe we don't know) 05:51:00 <mikk36|work> geg 05:51:02 <mikk36|work> heh* 05:51:09 <Gonozal_VIII> many definitions base on seconds 05:51:29 <Tefad_> SI is definitive for the term second. 05:51:36 <mikk36|work> so.. how long is a second then ? :P 05:51:40 <Tefad_> UT1 defines second to be 86400 units in one day. 05:52:00 <mikk36|work> which doesn't ? 05:52:03 <Tefad_> length of a day varies (rotation variations) 05:52:36 <Tefad_> SI seconds are constant. 05:52:47 <Gonozal_VIII> seems to be very unpractical to have variable seconds 05:52:52 <Tefad_> the earth is gradually slowing down due to tidal acceleration of the moon 05:53:10 <Tefad_> Gonozal_VIII: that's why SI defined it in terms of atomic decay. 05:53:46 <Gonozal_VIII> really decay? decay is kind of random... 05:54:06 <Rotonen> AFAIK seconds are defined by a stable oscillation 05:54:18 <Rotonen> please do wiki your facts beforehand 05:54:20 <Tefad_> at some point in the distant future we'll have to either redefine the second, or add leap second(s) along with leap years or something. 05:54:41 <Rotonen> leap years work just fine 05:55:26 <Gonozal_VIII> for people leap seconds don't matter, nobody will notice that and for electronic devices there are the atomic clocks that distribute the right time :-) 05:56:24 <Tefad_> Gonozal_VIII: yeah, but if you look at a clock and see 23:59:60 you'll probably scratch your head. 05:56:56 <Gonozal_VIII> but it's already over before your hand reaches your head ;-) 05:57:09 <Rotonen> also keeping everything in sync would just require too much extra effort in a variable system 05:57:27 <Gonozal_VIII> nah... variable seconds suck 05:57:50 <Gonozal_VIII> but leap seconds once a year or something are not a problem 05:58:10 <Rotonen> why not just settle with the current leap year system? 05:59:14 <Gonozal_VIII> you mean like add another rule where every 2000th year is not a leap year or something? 05:59:16 <Tefad_> because say.. 10000 years from now, the day will have 86401 seconds in it? 05:59:48 <Tefad_> you just want to have leapseconds wait for ~86400 of accumulation? 05:59:53 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B04346B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BigBB] 05:59:55 <Tefad_> then do them all in a day 06:00:30 <Rotonen> check your facts on the timescale :) 06:00:54 <Tefad_> ? 06:01:10 <Rotonen> imho our current system will outlive the habitability of our biosphere 06:01:11 <Tefad_> 10000 years was a number i pull from my arse 06:01:29 <Rotonen> indeed, it is a very short time for the change in question to occur 06:03:16 <Gonozal_VIII> how long is your estimated rest-habitability of this biosphere? 06:03:32 <Tefad_> well for the record our day is already 86400.002 seconds long 06:04:15 <Tefad_> from the 86400 established in 1820. 06:04:44 <Tefad_> i was only off by an order of magnitude : ) 06:04:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think they could calculate that with the same accuracy back then 06:05:10 <Tefad_> whatever it was, is now 2ms longer. 06:05:49 <Gonozal_VIII> which is less than a second per year 06:05:58 <Tefad_> in 89500 years the length of a day will be approximately 86401 seconds. 06:06:19 <mikk36|work> that so matters :P 06:06:24 <Tefad_> yup. 06:06:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i can't live with that... i guess i have to kill myself in 89500 years 06:06:48 <Tefad_> because if i set a device to trigger exactly 89500 years from now, it'll be off by a second! 06:06:54 <Tefad_> (har har har) 06:07:19 <Tefad_> actually it'd probably be non functional by that time.. and it would be off by more than a second. 06:07:48 <mikk36|work> because of different electrical interferences :) 06:07:59 <Tefad_> in 90k years from now, people will have a leap second PER DAY. 06:08:18 <mikk36|work> 365 seconds a yead 06:08:23 <mikk36|work> that's.. 6 minutes 06:08:25 <Tefad_> every 236 years they have an extra leap day. 06:08:47 <Rotonen> i think an extra 365 seconds at new years which belong to no year would be cool 06:08:59 <Rotonen> but would probably cause havoc to daily rythm on the long run :) 06:09:06 <Tefad_> anyway this is all quite trivial : D 06:09:12 <hylje> not to mention computer systems 06:09:16 <Rotonen> not really a problem for our generation to solve 06:09:36 <mikk36|work> i'll just keep syncing my clocks :) 06:09:37 <Gonozal_VIII> to accumulate them to a whole day you would have to accept noon in the middle of the night and so on 06:09:37 <Tefad_> Rotonen: the incans or myans or whatever used lunar calandar and they believed the short month of the year was extremely unlucky. 06:10:27 <Rotonen> also afaik the slowing down of the rotation was not linear, don't really have the insight to say how it will depend on time 06:10:27 <Tefad_> Gonozal_VIII: this is why we need to use UTC globally. 06:10:55 <Tefad_> Rotonen: agreed.. like i said this is all quite trivial ; ) 06:12:38 <Tefad_> Gonozal_VIII: and good point. 06:12:53 <Tefad_> leap seconds will matter.. quite a few years from now. 06:14:00 <Tefad_> by then maybe we'll be extinct.. our decendant species will have already solved the variable second problem (or has a completely different concept of time.. maybe metric time will be used.. heh who knows) 06:15:43 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe by then only a minority of our species still is on this planet so nobody cares about it's rotation anymore 06:15:52 <Gonozal_VIII> :-) 06:18:29 <mikk36|work> Gonozal_VIII, just go sleeping already :P 06:18:36 <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe 06:20:24 <Gonozal_VIII> but then i would have to stop thinking about building a giant ring that rotates around the sun and people live on the sunny side with a roof made out of half transparent solar panels that protect them from the sun and produce energy 06:21:46 <mikk36|work> is that so bad then ? 06:21:56 <Gonozal_VIII> not really^^ 06:22:02 <Gonozal_VIII> good night then 06:22:10 <mikk36|work> good night :) 06:22:26 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N902P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:19 <Tefad_> or we'll be cosmic dust as an intergalactic bypass occupies what used to be our planet's orbit. 06:27:07 <mikk36|work> yeah, lol 06:28:32 *** Markkisen [~me@1-1-1-19b.o.sth.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: Screw you guy, I'm going home and smoke pot] 06:47:36 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:48:30 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:39 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-138-199.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 06:51:42 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 06:55:47 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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Ciao :) 10:09:03 <MarkSlap> Gosh, I went to sleep in front of the computer, sitting. Naah, nighty then :p 10:34:53 <init> Any dev available? 10:35:32 *** init is now known as init100 10:35:36 <Rubidium> no 10:35:54 <Rubidium> at least not now 10:36:15 <init100> Okay 10:38:49 <Rubidium> but the real question is whether you really need a developer to answer your question (I'm assuming you have some question for them) 10:40:43 <init100> Yeah, but I should maybe read the dev docs first...:) 10:42:32 <dihedral> why not ask your question? if you need to read the dev docs first, someone is bound to tell you just that :-D 10:43:09 <init100> I'm trying to split the realistic acceleration patch (the one in the trunk) into several settings, as curve and hill handling isn't really related to acceleration. 10:43:58 <init100> But I get an invalid chunk when trying to load a savegame. I just found out that there is documentation about this in the Wiki. 10:45:59 <dihedral> well then :-P 10:53:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-138-223.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:58 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-106-218.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:00:28 <init100> Okay, now it works, albeit with one flaw. I haven't figured out how to enlarge the patches window yet, which means that the last two options in the Vehicles section is now pushed outside the window. 11:00:49 <init100> And this isn't mentioned in the "Add patch" section of the Wiki 11:02:19 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-203-4.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:07:25 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-11.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 11:13:36 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:16:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5acf3968.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:11 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-152-50-202.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:17:18 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-52-42.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 11:19:05 <init100> Windows are strange. I enlarged the patches window, but the background color still only took up the previous amount of space. 11:20:17 <init100> Ahh, I have to resize the panel too... 11:20:43 *** exe [~zgibhy@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:07 *** exe [~zgibhy@pub70089.brzesko.net.pl] has joined #openttd 11:21:14 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-138-199.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:05 <Rubidium> the patch option window need to be completely rewritten as it is going to be too big on small screens anyway 11:26:38 <init100> Sounds reasonable 11:31:24 <init100> One idea that could make the pages smaller is o have sub-categories in each patch category. One could e.g. have General, YAPF, Realism and Service sub-categories on the vehicle page. 11:33:30 <init100> If possible, the game should also compute the window and panel size of the patches window from the options in the window, so that patch developers wouldn't have to modify sizes manually. Just a thought. 11:35:01 <Rubidium> and add some scrollbars for small screens and there you've got the requirements for the rewritten patch option window. 11:35:08 *** Leviath [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 11:35:12 *** Leviath [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:13 <init100> Exactly :) 11:35:15 <dihedral> :-P 11:36:20 <dihedral> Rubidium: could it be of interest to have 2 more autoexecuted script files? 11:36:44 <dihedral> 1 on the yearly look, and another for the client, <host>_<port>.scr 11:37:06 <dihedral> so a client can set nicks or rcon aliases according to the server one joins? 11:43:44 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:31 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i59F7F61A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:46:46 *** Vikthor [novotv6@pc404-11.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:14 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:51:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i59F7FFE9.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:53 *** skidd13_work [~d5178552@webuser.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 11:54:16 <skidd13_work> Hi folks 11:54:52 <dihedral> hello 12:06:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E94E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:04 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-163-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:17:07 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-106-218.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:02 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-74-205.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:23:31 *** skidd13_work [~d5178552@webuser.thegrebs.com] has left #openttd [] 12:31:17 <init100> Now, the patch is done and uploaded to the Flyspray tracker. A thread has also been created in the forum. 12:32:57 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:57 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netrep.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:37 *** traumel [~Miranda@dslb-084-057-243-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:44 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:30 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:41 *** init100 is now known as init 12:45:12 *** init is now known as init100 12:52:57 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:15 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 12:57:57 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb 12:59:47 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5aca7d32.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:01:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:01:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 13:10:35 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B0435E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:14:54 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 13:30:36 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:39 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:43:00 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N807P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 13:50:38 <geoff_k_> is it possible to turn off breakdowns on a dedicated once its running? 13:50:47 <dihedral> nope 13:50:49 <geoff_k_> cant seem to find a setting for it 13:50:57 <geoff_k_> didn't think so thanks 13:50:58 <dihedral> its in the difficulty setting 13:51:15 <dihedral> if you search wiki.openttd.org for 'openttd.cfg' you'll get some detailed info 13:51:20 <geoff_k_> yeah unfortunately game is started i don;t mind its on low 13:51:49 <geoff_k_> i was asked to change it but too late now 13:57:29 <dihedral> pause the game, save it, load it in single player, change the setting, save it, load it on the dedicated server 14:08:23 <Gonozal_VIII> is there no way to keep transferred cargo from entering a vehicle of the same line it just came from? 14:08:47 <Gonozal_VIII> for two way transfer 14:08:48 <dihedral> transfer + leave empty (unload) 14:09:24 <De_Ghost> no 14:09:35 <De_Ghost> u need a diffrent platform 14:10:00 <glx> station not platform 14:10:05 <Gonozal_VIII> not only platform, a whole different station for in and out.. 14:11:27 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't make sense that it takes the same vehicle again unless it's got transfer and take cargo as order 14:12:15 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd 14:12:27 *** Entane [~Entane@206.84-48-202.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:51 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:19 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:37 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:56:22 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:04 *** traumel [~Miranda@dslb-084-057-243-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:20:06 *** Unknown_Entity [~UnknownEn@dslb-084-063-090-201.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:23:53 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N807P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:42 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 15:30:40 <spark_> is option "fixed order" or "shared orders" available yet ? 15:34:00 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 15:34:40 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.91] has joined #openttd 15:36:30 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:19 <spark_> anybody here ?? 15:45:24 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7FBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:48:22 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50c79a03.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:48:25 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 15:48:36 *** Ailure [Cat@194.47.44.201] has joined #openttd 15:50:07 <dihedral> yep 15:50:40 <Bjarni> yeah 15:50:43 <Bjarni> I totally agree 15:51:03 <Bjarni> the question is... do I agree to whatever you replied to? :) 15:51:36 <dihedral> 16:45 < spark_> anybody here ?? 15:51:42 <Bjarni> ahh 15:51:47 <Bjarni> then the answer is no 15:51:52 <dihedral> LOL 15:51:54 <Bjarni> I wasn't here when he asked that 15:52:01 <dihedral> :-p 15:53:02 <spark_> how can i destroy radio transmitter in openttd ? 15:53:16 <Bjarni> you can't 15:53:29 <Bjarni> that's why they are listed as "unremovable objects" 15:53:42 <Bjarni> well I think you can if you cheat from the cheat menu 15:53:42 <spark_> hm, ok then 15:53:58 <Bjarni> but cheating is for cheaters 15:54:13 <Bjarni> and it will be saved that you cheated and it doesn't work in multiplayer 15:54:19 <spark_> hmm 15:54:21 <spark_> damn 15:54:24 <dihedral> 16:53 <@Bjarni> but cheating is for cheaters 15:54:26 <dihedral> lol 15:54:42 <Bjarni> I knew you would like that one ;) 15:54:47 <dihedral> spark_: go around, under or dont 15:55:25 <spark_> i need to build a station there 15:55:30 <hylje> transmitters are the only way to keep high hills high 15:56:18 <hylje> in the absence of bedrock 15:57:26 <spark_> hm 15:57:27 <spark_> lol 15:58:10 <Bjarni> Hannah Baberra didn't give us permission to use Bedrock... they claimed to need it for Viva Rock Vegas or something 15:58:18 <Bjarni> that's why it's not in the game 15:59:01 <hylje> ha ha that's funny, laugh everyone! 15:59:32 * dihedral laughs 15:59:35 <dihedral> haha 15:59:38 <dihedral> :-P 16:00:27 <Bjarni> ... 16:00:34 <Bjarni> dihedral didn't say lol 16:00:37 <Bjarni> something is wrong 16:00:44 <dihedral> :-) 16:00:54 <dihedral> lol <-- that's for Bjarni 16:01:01 <dihedral> happy now? 16:02:25 <Bjarni> no 16:02:36 <Bjarni> you didn't do it before the timeout 16:02:46 <dihedral> lol 16:02:46 <Bjarni> now I have to figure out another joke to get this working 16:03:29 <dihedral> you can tell me what's 'wrong' with FS1363 (code wise) - note there is a v5 :-P 16:04:14 * spark_ problem solved 16:04:47 * dihedral beleives spark_ ededted the scenario or cheated 16:04:51 <Bjarni> dihedral: well... I have to spend time reading the code 16:05:03 <Bjarni> and time is money 16:05:16 <Bjarni> so you have to compensate me for my loss by reading this file 16:05:38 <dihedral> and where would the file be? 16:05:47 <Bjarni> either that or accept that I don't really have time or energy to read a whole new diff (since I never read it) 16:05:49 <dihedral> :-P 16:05:57 <spark_> no 16:05:58 <spark_> i didn't 16:06:06 <spark_> i just added another station :) 16:06:34 <dihedral> Bjarni: i'll compensate you by doing some coding you really dong feel like doing, but note that you also need to take my limited c/c++ knowledge into account 16:06:36 <Bjarni> he decided to remove a building so the station could be placed on the tile next to the transmitter 16:06:44 <Bjarni> but now the town will no longer accept goods :P 16:06:56 <hylje> ha ha 16:07:02 <dihedral> Bjarni: that is crediting him too much :-P 16:07:18 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6F78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:37 <dihedral> Bjarni: what say you to the compensation idea? 16:07:43 <Bjarni> err 16:08:05 <Bjarni> I'm not sure that I want to get code from a guy who writes "dong" by mistake 16:08:21 <Bjarni> I fear that the code might stink 16:08:35 <dihedral> you can decide that by looking at the diff 16:09:06 <Bjarni> more seriously... I'm supposed to do something else 16:09:17 <dihedral> i'm happy to help :-) 16:09:21 <dihedral> this evening 16:09:25 <Bjarni> maybe I should just hide IRC so I can get some work done 16:10:09 <dihedral> oh - c'mon 16:10:17 <dihedral> it's a small diff 16:10:29 <Bjarni> dihedral: thank you, but no thanks... you see it's work on a higher level and I don't think you can follow me that far 16:11:23 <dihedral> Bjarni: then i at least learn something from it, and can help another time 16:12:00 <Bjarni> w=y<z?w>z?3:t>a?a++:--x:y++; <-- this is also only a few chars but it takes forever to figure out 16:12:28 <Bjarni> hint: it's valid C code 16:12:44 <dihedral> Bjarni: figured that 16:13:28 <Bjarni> this is a good line to write whenever somebody says something like "it's only a few lines"... the question is not always the number of lines, but the content 16:13:39 <dihedral> it's not such a hard line 16:13:58 <Bjarni> actually it's not but it can really scare n00bs away 16:14:03 <dihedral> thanks 16:14:19 <dihedral> you successfull on detecting a non-scared-noob :-P 16:14:31 <Bjarni> and everybody else who doesn't look at it correctly :P 16:15:00 <Bjarni> but... I fail to see any code where that line would be useful 16:15:11 <dihedral> though for readability that is pretty much a nasty line 16:15:34 <dihedral> and personally i would love to slap anybody who codes like that 16:15:46 <dihedral> just because it gets others confused 16:15:53 <dihedral> when in the need of reading code 16:16:05 <Bjarni> it takes longer to read a line like that than a line like "p->Send_uint16(client_index);" 16:16:11 <frosch123> The most evil thing in c I ever met: if (a-->b) 16:16:26 <Bjarni> cool 16:16:32 <Bjarni> I have to remember that one 16:16:43 <dihedral> why is that evil? 16:17:05 <frosch123> dihedral has not understood the line :) 16:17:18 <Bjarni> a->b is normal, but the line actually says "(a--) > b" 16:17:21 <dihedral> i see a -1 and a greater than 16:17:28 <dihedral> exactly 16:17:45 <dihedral> hence it's not so evil appart from assigning a value in a if 16:17:49 <frosch123> Do you know, how long it took me to find the second minus? 16:17:57 <Bjarni> but it's really easy to confuse it with a->b, hence a pointer to a struct 16:18:07 *** flaa [~Matti@dasni2819.ulapland.fi] has joined #openttd 16:18:07 <dihedral> yes 16:18:13 <dihedral> but still - there is a second - 16:18:18 <flaa> hi! 16:18:20 <dihedral> huhu 16:18:31 <Bjarni> <frosch123> Do you know, how long it took me to find the second minus? <--- hours :P 16:18:31 <dihedral> so Bjarni how about it :-P 16:18:53 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:19:39 <Bjarni> I once spent days figuring out why I had an SGC window crash when I tried to open OpenTTD (while I was porting it)... turned out that it was a nice undocumented feature so I should include a header file to main that main didn't use (due to defines) 16:19:51 <Bjarni> I think it took me 3 days or so to figure out 16:22:22 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:27:43 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 16:31:20 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 16:32:23 <ln-> question: is it a good idea that the fullscreen state is saved when exiting, as it is now? 16:33:34 <dihedral> why would it not be? 16:35:15 <ln-> it may be unexpected. 16:36:06 <Belugas> how? 16:37:05 <dihedral> i find saving the generation seed lese usefull.... 16:37:22 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:25 <dihedral> as on dedicated servers that means they have the same map each time they are properly restarted 16:37:38 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 16:38:05 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5655C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:04 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:45 *** skidd13 is now known as Guest1249 16:40:49 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:44:50 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has joined #openttd 16:46:47 *** Guest1249 [~skidd13@p548A6F78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:22 <dihedral> eney meney miney mow 16:52:45 *** mucht_work [~Martin@143.50.125.24] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:04:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:22:56 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:44 <Ammller> Frostregen: around? 17:27:42 <Ammller> Rubidium: now I know, what you mean with forcing revisions, there are hacked bins available with c&p in it 17:27:48 <Ammller> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=25037 17:28:22 <Ammller> didn't know that, thats really bad. 17:28:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host91-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:29:29 <Wolf01> hello 17:36:45 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7FBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 17:38:58 <Ammller> Frostregen: is it somehow possible for server to detec, if a client use this cheat? 17:41:07 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 17:47:50 <dihedral> Ammller: what do you mean with 'hacked'? 17:48:58 <Ammller> patch -p0 < c&p.patch && ./configure revision=0.6.0-beta1 && make 17:49:23 <dihedral> lets keep that conversation here 17:49:30 <dihedral> 18:49 < dihedral> i am not following you with what is _that_ bad... 17:49:43 *** lugo [~lugo@p4FD5CC53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:18 <Ammller> you can use this cheat on clients connected to our servers 17:50:32 <dihedral> cheat as in paste? 17:50:40 <skidd13> dihedral: Someone chould patch his client with the C&P patch and force his revision to the servers revision. And as the patch uses the cmd's the server won't notice 17:50:40 <Ammller> you don't agree? 17:51:04 <dihedral> skidd13: i follow that part 17:51:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:51:12 <dihedral> i patch my servers and the clients dont notice 17:51:13 <Ammller> maybe we could count commands per sec 17:51:39 <dihedral> but then i dont get the 'danger' of it 17:51:43 <Ammller> and if there are more then i.e. 2 from same client -> ban 17:52:08 <Ammller> did I ever speak from danger? 17:52:23 <skidd13> Ammller: Let a WC3 player play OTTD and you migth have to adapt the values 17:52:23 <dihedral> then i dont get the issue 17:52:29 <Ammller> its "just" unfair to the ones who can't use it 17:52:39 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@77.60.199.137] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:53:08 <dihedral> Ammller: the thing with c&p users is, 1. you can tell by the style of building, because it's not human like but tile by tile 17:53:15 <dihedral> 2. they alwas build the same 17:53:57 <dihedral> and, c&p allows you to limit the speed of it too 17:54:50 <Ammller> well I am wrong, its not unfair to them who can't use it, its unfair to the guys who use it :) 17:55:01 <dihedral> yes 17:55:04 <dihedral> :-P 17:55:15 <dihedral> but how on earth do you want to detect a modified client? 17:55:46 <glx> you can't detect it 17:56:24 <Ammller> well, biggest problem is, that this binary is available public 17:56:37 <dihedral> you could limit the amount of doCommands a server will accept form any client in a certain time period 17:56:47 <dihedral> but then again, that can be changed on the client side too 17:56:48 <Ammller> we hadn't that on our servers when we use nightlies 17:57:06 <dihedral> buildottd is around... 17:57:11 <dihedral> that is all you need 17:57:19 <Ammller> hmm, you can't do it with bottd 17:57:20 <dihedral> even for nightly games 17:57:25 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has joined #openttd 17:58:00 <skidd13> To kill the possible violation of script kiddies you could add a savegame bump to the c&p patch 17:58:18 <dihedral> well - that is nothing 'we' could add 17:58:38 <glx> skidd13: doesn't matter as it still can load unpatched version 17:58:47 <Ammller> I think, most important should be to remove the bins from Frostregen's thread 17:59:01 <dihedral> Ammller: you have no control over that 17:59:06 <dihedral> OpenTTD is open source 17:59:13 <dihedral> and therefore those bins are 100% legit 17:59:19 <Ammller> omg, guys who can compile don't use this 18:00:00 <dihedral> Ammller: not quite - i know a few who can compile and use it :-D 18:00:02 <skidd13> glx: Sure it's more or less a little stone you throw them in the way, but as the game is open source you wont' be able to prevent such missusage 18:00:14 <Ammller> you? 18:00:20 <dihedral> Ammller: nope 18:00:40 <Ammller> skidd13: we hadn't this problem yet 18:01:01 <Ammller> well, its not a problem 18:01:03 <dihedral> skidd13: define 'misusage' 18:01:41 <skidd13> dihedral: modify the game to abnormal behavior to your advantage 18:02:07 <Ammller> I was just scared that this bin is so easy available 18:02:11 <dihedral> as that is not /forbidden/ in the license, that sounds more like a cheat 18:02:29 <dihedral> Ammller: they have been for some time now 18:02:32 <glx> non dedicated servers (debug build) can cheat easily too 18:02:58 <dihedral> there is no way you can trust any client! 18:03:44 <Ammller> but something like a cheat detector? 18:04:03 <dihedral> then i'll change my client to send a 'no i am not cheating' packet 18:04:05 <Ammller> not possible for a opensource 18:05:03 <dihedral> you could build a detection on the last 5 tiles a client built and 'simply' add checks if this could be normal human interaction or not 18:05:15 <dihedral> and that then would be fully server side 18:05:51 <dihedral> and that would be a bunch of static logic 18:06:35 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@host86-152-50-202.range86-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:52 *** oh [~oh@c96F5BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 18:07:02 <oh> meh 18:07:28 * dihedral pats oh on the head 18:07:46 * Ammller is hearing 18:08:04 <Ammller> still 18:08:06 <oh> stuck in a neverending queue behind some player with a dialup connection from the stone age 18:08:17 <dihedral> lol 18:08:33 <dihedral> that is a good chance to practice patience 18:08:44 <oh> when I finally connect, he disconnects and so do I 18:08:48 <oh> and we do it all over again :P 18:08:57 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A7B76.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 18:10:27 <dihedral> Ammller: c&p builds tile by tile 18:11:01 <Ammller> I know, its same as you do manually 18:11:05 <oh> have there been any major networking changes in 0.6? 18:11:07 <Ammller> just faster :) 18:11:13 <dihedral> so if it 'builds' 5 tiles that just dont make sense 18:11:17 <dihedral> no 18:11:24 <dihedral> it does not build like you do normally 18:11:27 <oh> geoff_k_: I give up 18:11:34 <geoff_k_> yeah don;t blame you 18:11:44 <geoff_k_> no idea whats going on never seen it be like this 18:12:05 <Ammller> I uesed it on chrisin 18:12:14 <oh> need to play some enemy territory or halo to blow off some steam ;P 18:12:28 <dihedral> it does one tile after the other 18:12:43 <Ammller> ah, now I get you 18:13:05 <dihedral> :-) 18:13:17 <Ammller> :) 18:13:25 <dihedral> no - if the server rememberd the last 5 or 10 tiles each client builds on 18:13:25 <geoff_k_> i don;t know where to suspect something has gone bad with the networking somewhere in the beta but i've never had lost connections like it 18:13:49 <dihedral> and runs 'static' checks over them 18:13:57 <dihedral> i.e. hardcoded checks 18:14:16 <dihedral> to determin if this was built by human or not i.e. does it make sense 18:14:53 <dihedral> and you only consider in that check tiles that are next to eachother 18:16:42 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 18:17:53 *** oh is now known as oh_ 18:25:09 *** G_ [~njones@202.154.150.91] has joined #openttd 18:26:48 <geoff_k_> im getting pretty much constant lost connections on this beta like i've never seen in the releases 18:26:55 *** G [~njones@202.154.150.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:54 <geoff_k_> only difference in this game to what i normaly run is the skill level of players is better but there aren't that many vehichles 18:30:31 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:55 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:38:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11475 /trunk/src/ (39 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: rename clamp and clampu to Clamp and ClampU to fit with the coding style 18:38:35 <dihedral> 19:26 < geoff_k_> im getting pretty much constant lost connections on this beta like i've never seen in the releases <-- hence it's beta 18:39:01 <geoff_k_> yeah not expecting a perfect ride i'd liek to be able to track why 18:39:24 <geoff_k_> there was a play constantly connecting and losing connection i've banned the ip now 18:39:27 <geoff_k_> player* 18:39:47 <geoff_k_> was happening to everyone in the game 18:39:52 <glx> what is map size? 18:40:04 <geoff_k_> 1024 x 1024 18:40:12 <geoff_k_> same as i always do 18:40:21 <glx> may be too big for some clients 18:40:38 <geoff_k_> could be 18:40:56 <dihedral> you use pause when clients connect? 18:41:01 <geoff_k_> yes 18:41:02 <Rubidium> does it have the word "desync" in the error message? If not, then the clients are just too slow 18:41:20 <geoff_k_> Rubidium, i;ve had a few desyncs but not many think there have been about 3 or 4 18:41:57 <Rubidium> did it have "desync" in the error message? 18:42:11 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:15 <geoff_k_> not for all these problems, just says connection lost 18:42:25 <dihedral> :-) 18:42:27 <Rubidium> then it is not a desync 18:42:28 <geoff_k_> but there has been a couple of desyncs as well 18:42:34 <geoff_k_> they aren't the issue 18:42:51 <glx> check the server console, should have say "client #x is slow..." 18:42:59 <Rubidium> desync are an issue, connections lost due to bad network connections/slow clients are not an issue 18:43:19 <dihedral> :-P 18:43:35 <dihedral> one perfect example of 'user' and 'dev' oppinion :-) 18:43:43 <geoff_k_> there have been messages about slow clients but no one left playing now but for one player 18:44:08 <geoff_k_> who don't sseem to have any problem so far 18:44:10 <Rubidium> the desync is something that "we" can fix, network connection losts "we" cannot fix as it is a network/slow client issue 18:44:55 <dihedral> oh - c'mon Rubidium 18:44:59 <geoff_k_> yeah i suspect one of 2 things, 1 being a client keep connecting and then lost connection, and also this plane speed i suspect a bit but not sure about that 18:45:06 <dihedral> i am sure you could fix it :-D 18:45:24 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:45:30 <dihedral> how many vehicles do you have in that game geoff_k_ 18:45:35 <geoff_k_> they are only things that i can see what are different or not normal 18:45:43 <geoff_k_> i'll do a count 18:46:04 <Rubidium> oh, by the way... 0.6.0-beta1 is slower than 0.5.3 due to the assertions that are checked in 0.6.0-beta1 and not in 0.5.3 18:46:46 <geoff_k_> about 150 trains 80 planes ... 18:47:12 <geoff_k_> about 80 road and no ships 18:47:38 <geoff_k_> which dont sound like a lot 18:48:01 <dihedral> i was thinking that the constant disconnects could be due to cpu usage and not being able to handle it all 18:48:04 <dihedral> but in that case :P 18:48:09 <geoff_k_> i know ive had a lot more than that wihtout problems, maybe its just the one client on a bad connection before 18:48:27 <dihedral> which host:port? 18:49:03 <geoff_k_> the player? it was 86.70.174.123:3981 18:49:07 <geoff_k_> or my server? 18:49:22 <dihedral> youre server 18:49:27 <dihedral> what do i want to know the client for 18:49:40 <geoff_k_> i did wonder :p 18:49:59 <geoff_k_> 86.144.113.144 im on 18:51:09 <geoff_k_> its hard to see a problem no but everyone has left almost 18:51:19 <dihedral> ... 18:51:27 <dihedral> that aint 0.6.0-beta1... 18:51:37 <geoff_k_> desync jsut had 18:51:49 <geoff_k_> what port? its on 3981 18:51:52 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:54 <dihedral> ... 18:52:16 <geoff_k_> what have i installed :)? 18:52:26 <dihedral> it was the other port... 18:52:42 <dihedral> you're running that at home arent you 18:52:45 <geoff_k_> yes 18:52:53 <dihedral> can tell - slow upload :-P 18:53:12 <geoff_k_> yeah it will be a bit, gives about 50kbps i think in total 18:53:22 <geoff_k_> its 8Mbit down 18:53:30 <dihedral> down is not interesting in this case 18:53:34 <geoff_k_> indeed 18:53:44 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7A151.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 18:53:49 <geoff_k_> connected about 0.5Mbit upstream 18:54:30 <geoff_k_> which should be enough not much bandwitdh gets used here 18:54:37 <dihedral> last time i waited this long to connect to a game was when i needed to download a 20mb map for ET 18:55:08 <dihedral> you are running 2 games there, right 18:55:11 <geoff_k_> its a pretty big map but wouldn;t think it should take that long dont sound right lot of industry on it 18:55:25 <geoff_k_> yeah 2 games 18:55:25 <dihedral> it's a 2mb map 18:58:49 <dihedral> i have no idea what you have going on in that game, but it gets my cpu on 100% 18:59:01 <dihedral> the last time i saw a ottd game do that was at wwottdgd 18:59:07 <geoff_k_> yeah i been having that problem 18:59:19 <dihedral> could you pause the game for a sec? 18:59:23 <geoff_k_> yeah sure 19:02:13 <geoff_k_> if it helps to test the upload im giving out could try to hit on this http://takeabyte.no-ip.org/ttylinux/ttylinux-xen-beta.bz2 see how fast it goes 19:02:51 <geoff_k_> it really shouldn't be a problem though but from here i cannot say for sure 19:03:44 <geoff_k_> i've got iptraf running and there is nothing happening as always is the case 19:04:31 <dihedral> k 19:04:41 <dihedral> can unpause again 19:04:48 <geoff_k_> ok 19:05:35 <dihedral> you have an awful amount of industries... 19:05:43 <geoff_k_> yeah there is too many 19:05:48 <geoff_k_> its not on max though 19:06:03 <geoff_k_> i did set max 1st and it was way too much so restarted it a setting less 19:06:24 <dihedral> like i said - it gets my cpu to 100% which i have not had sinse wwottdgd 19:06:33 <dihedral> so there you have the reason for your disconnects 19:06:42 <geoff_k_> yeah thats odd though 19:07:22 <geoff_k_> i do get my cpu going usualy when the game gets well into playing i struggle to play it then but other peopel say they got no problems thats on all releases ive played 19:08:18 <dihedral> we had people at wwottdgd that had no issues playing either 19:08:23 <dihedral> about 10-12 of them 19:08:30 <dihedral> all of them had a core 2 duo 19:08:41 <dihedral> i.e. a fairly new computer 19:08:45 <geoff_k_> yeah 19:09:08 <Ailure> I remember 19:09:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-145-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:09:15 <Ailure> that I never went over 30% on my computer 19:09:18 <Ailure> CPU usage wise 19:09:24 <Ailure> it was mostly around 20-25% 19:09:25 <Hendikins> Bjarni: TVM = Ticket Vending Machine 19:09:31 <Ailure> which would be 40-50% on a single core 19:09:36 *** Hendikins is now known as Hendikins|Work-BNE 19:09:42 <hylje> hmm 19:10:00 <hylje> what about ottd supporting pedestrian traffic >:D 19:10:07 <geoff_k_> i know my system struggle on the client side when it gets going i;ve always had that this game seemed to happen a lot quicker but then people are better players to what im used to 19:10:09 <Ailure> something screw happened with the server though 19:10:14 <Ailure> but I never got problems clientside 19:10:21 <geoff_k_> still seems a bit too quick though 19:10:21 <Ailure> server starting to drop clients 19:10:31 <Rubidium> hylje: it already does; just code a NewGRF where 'people' go 5 km/h 19:10:35 <geoff_k_> thats same problem 19:10:36 <hylje> :o 19:10:37 <Ailure> even clients that was fast enough, that is 19:10:58 <dihedral> Ailure: ottd does not use 2 cores 19:11:11 <Ailure> i know 19:11:17 <geoff_k_> one thing i notice is on the client side this 2Ghz (single core) don't seem to handle it really much better than my old PIII's 19:11:17 <Ailure> that's why I said 19:11:22 <hylje> Rubidium: what about station area planning to handle all those passengers? 19:11:23 <Ailure> [20:08] <Ailure> which would be 40-50% on a single core 19:11:32 <Ailure> becuse it's a single-threaded application 19:11:36 <Ailure> and I know about what threading is 19:11:41 <Ailure> and semaphores and etc 19:11:44 <Ailure> I even programmed with them 19:11:44 <hylje> how does Ailure know what threading is 19:12:01 <Rubidium> his mother sews 19:12:07 <dihedral> rofl 19:12:10 <dihedral> good one 19:12:10 <dihedral> nice 19:12:11 <dihedral> nice 19:12:12 <dihedral> :-P 19:12:16 <Ailure> :P 19:12:38 <geoff_k_> i know what threaqding is, i run Xen servers and most people that run them except me use many cores becauses Xen can assign cores to virtual machines or groups of machines 19:13:36 <geoff_k_> this isn't running in a virtual machine though 19:13:44 <geoff_k_> itso n a physical box 19:13:52 <dihedral> that is beside the point 19:13:55 <geoff_k_> or bare metal as they say 19:14:01 <dihedral> you wanted to know why your clients disconnect 19:14:04 <dihedral> :-) 19:14:23 <geoff_k_> yeah i kind of know why but still not sure why that is happening 19:14:37 <dihedral> big map - lots of indus 19:14:47 <Brianetta> 0.6 19:14:48 <Brianetta> coo 19:15:06 <geoff_k_> i'll get a crappy old PIII out and install it on that play single play and see what slows it down 19:15:15 <dihedral> lol 19:15:35 <Sacro> Brianetta: you sound like a pidgeon 19:15:43 <dihedral> LOL 19:15:44 <geoff_k_> like i say though i've had these map always until now its been ok for the most part 19:15:54 <dihedral> nice one Sacro 19:15:59 <geoff_k_> few more industry thats all 19:16:12 <dihedral> geoff_k_: define 'few'? 19:16:25 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Wezz6400_ 19:16:38 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: That's his RFC1149-compliant connection. 19:16:44 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:47 <geoff_k_> the generator seems to have made more i wouldn't like to guess at counting them maybe about 20% more 19:17:18 <dihedral> good thing that 20% is not relative 19:18:07 <geoff_k_> i'lol do some one play on it over next few days running it dedcated server see how i go that way 19:18:17 <geoff_k_> player* 19:18:38 <dihedral> if you remove all trees you make the map smaller :-) 19:18:42 <geoff_k_> aircraft speed possibly isn;t helping 19:18:49 <dihedral> ? 19:19:00 <geoff_k_> they move a lot faster 19:19:04 <dihedral> so? 19:19:22 <geoff_k_> ive always found int he past a lot of aircraft can slow things down 19:19:40 <dihedral> a lot of anything can slow things down 19:19:43 <geoff_k_> specialy fast aircraft same with trains 19:20:11 <dihedral> it's about the pathfinding 19:20:25 <Rubidium> aircraft and pathfinding? 19:20:52 <geoff_k_> when deisel is introduced then thing normal get a little bit slower but its not bad its still plays well until about highspeed electric trains if there are alot of good player and lots of trains that can be a problem but sitll not as bad 19:21:14 <dihedral> Rubidium: no - i am merly making a point that the pathfinding is more cpu intense than the speed of a vehicle 19:21:18 <geoff_k_> and again its only me seems to suffer 19:21:28 <geoff_k_> everyone else has no problem 19:21:30 <Rubidium> dihedral: not always true 19:21:56 <dihedral> not always allows for it to be somewhat correct :-) 19:22:07 <dihedral> in fact allows for it to be mostly correct 19:22:14 <Rubidium> an NewGRF aircraft flying fast over a group of NewGRF vehicles gives you a load of CPU cycles needed to redraw all of them 19:22:31 <Rubidium> (or NewGRF houses or whatever having action 2) 19:22:38 <dihedral> :-) 19:22:52 <dihedral> but that would be temparary cpu load, right 19:23:09 <Rubidium> for each aircraft flying through your screen 19:23:32 <Rubidium> and 'following' vehicles isn't making it any faster either 19:23:43 <dihedral> well - that is temporary enough on a game taht only has 20-50 aircrafts in a 1024^2 map 19:24:31 <dihedral> and should not keep cpu load at 100% 19:26:37 *** Wezz6400_ [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Wezz6400_] 19:30:57 <oh_> wah, ottd 1thread? 19:31:30 <oh_> looks like it's got 3 going for it to me ;< 19:31:35 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: Screw you guy, I'm going home and smoke pot] 19:31:52 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-17-138.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:32:22 <Rubidium> oh_: game logic is all in one thread 19:32:43 <Rubidium> saves happen in a separate thread and possibly music/sound playback 19:35:17 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:36:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-74-205.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:57 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 19:42:31 <dihedral> people on coop are randomly jumping with their vewport to a certain area 19:44:56 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-146-172.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:45:37 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-17-138.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:01 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 19:47:48 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Guest1259 19:47:52 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 19:50:50 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-144-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:06 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 19:54:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11478 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Fix: two small layout issues with the vehicle grouping GUI. 19:54:47 *** Guest1259 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-106.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:54:52 <geoff_k_> hmm just tried to connect to another server running the beta and took forever to download them map then when i got on it my screen has frozen can't even close it,... and connection lost.. will try another one at another location if there are any 19:55:38 <geoff_k_> was same size map 19:56:24 <Rubidium> as I said before, the beta is kinda slow due to some debugging stuff that's still enabled in them. 19:57:09 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4269.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:35 *** Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 19:57:47 <geoff_k_> yeah im jsut poking around really to see what does go well, i never play other peoples servers i'll see what happens on the 0.5.3 servers out there im just trying to benchmark what is normal 19:58:34 <Rubidium> I'm just saying that you can't really compare performance 19:58:36 <geoff_k_> downloading maps is very slow 19:58:52 <Rubidium> usually means the server has not enough bandwidth 19:58:53 <geoff_k_> yeah not really if there is debugging to consider 19:59:36 <Gonozal_VIII> slow or bad connection both has nothing to do with game version :-) 20:00:10 <Rubidium> true, *but* 20:00:20 <geoff_k_> yeah both games i tried taking for ever to download the maps this one im connection to now is just under 1MB 20:00:35 <geoff_k_> looks like i lost connection there too 20:00:44 <Rubidium> slow download + slower loading + slower getting in sync with the map == more chance to get connection losts 20:00:57 <geoff_k_> thats was 512 x 1024 20:07:19 <dihedral> geoff_k_: consider downloading from servers on faster links :-) 20:07:51 <Gonozal_VIII> pause_on_join = true :-) 20:08:41 <geoff_k_> yeah its finding one though, i just lost connection connecting to a 0.5.3 1024 x 1024 game which looked like it was busy, could just be this systems is not upto it which i find odd, it has been running for almost 2 weeks 20:11:20 <geoff_k_> im connected fine to 512 x 512 0.5.3 thats fine not a lot going on on it though so far 20:11:22 <Gonozal_VIII> you can test you're system with the fast forward button in single player, if it doesn't speed up you're already at the limit 20:11:33 <Gonozal_VIII> blubb 20:13:11 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:13:33 <Gonozal_VIII> (the blubb was for the first you're thing^^) 20:14:21 <dihedral> geoff_k_: for 0.5.3 feel free to try my games 20:15:07 <dihedral> host: openttd.dihedral.de at ports 3979, 27016, 27020 20:15:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:15:36 <geoff_k_> thanks will do going to grab a caffine 1st feel like i need it 20:18:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11479 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp macros.h): 20:18:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Move the BIGMUL functions to the file of their usage 20:18:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Rename the BIGMUL functions to the fitting naming style 20:23:31 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 20:24:45 <geoff_k_> seems to be slow at getting the map, just checked my net with a download its working just fine 20:25:46 <geoff_k_> not sure how long it should take but downloading maps seems to be lot slower than it should be, few kbs per second on any connection either end is slow 20:26:06 <geoff_k_> port 3979 im on and it seems good so far 20:35:40 <Bjarni> <Hendikins> Bjarni: TVM = Ticket Vending Machine <-- LOL... it only took you like 20+ hours to answer that question :D 20:35:59 <hylje> better late than never 20:36:08 <Bjarni> yeah 20:37:13 <Bjarni> though I would be scared if Titanic arrives at New York tomorrow 20:37:35 <Rubidium> Bjarni: you know someone has an issue with 0.6.0-beta1 and OSX10.3? 20:38:17 <Bjarni> no 20:38:40 <Bjarni> I have problems testing it since I don't have hardware to run 10.3 :( 20:38:42 <Rubidium> forum -> OpenTTD -> Problems 20:39:10 <Rubidium> maybe it's something you know 20:39:39 <dihedral> Bjarni: i have a G4 and 10.3.9 on a dvd 20:39:50 <dihedral> unfor not installed 20:42:16 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 20:42:46 <Bjarni> problem solved (I hope) 20:42:47 <SmatZ> hello 20:42:50 <Bjarni> hi 20:43:35 * dihedral waits to see the commit :-P 20:43:39 <Bjarni> dihedral: that sounds nice. I have 10.3 CDs but the hardware died and I don't feel like paying around £200 for a new PSU for an 800 MHz G4 (custom built PSU) 20:44:19 <Bjarni> * dihedral waits to see the commit :-P <-- the problem was "you placed the grf files in the wrong dir"... I don't think we will see a commit fixing user errors :P 20:45:20 <dihedral> ? grf files? where does that come from? 20:45:43 <Bjarni> your TT CD 20:45:48 <Bjarni> or disks 20:46:22 <Bjarni> well... I can't rule out that your grf files comes from somebody else's CD :P 20:47:21 <Bjarni> what I don't like is that he gets the warning printed that showed up recently.... it shouldn't be there 20:47:44 <Bjarni> dihedral: if everything else fails then I guess you might have to install Panther :s 20:48:11 <Bjarni> damn those names... the numbers are easier to remember :P 20:48:20 <Bjarni> public beta = 0 20:48:30 <Bjarni> then 1,2,3,4 and now 5 20:48:43 <dihedral> i might just get an external hdd and install it on there... :-) 20:48:53 <dihedral> will be slow but will do the trick 20:48:56 <Bjarni> sounds reasonable 20:49:19 <Bjarni> external HDs aren't that slow if they are connected to firewire 20:49:41 <dihedral> that's an idea 20:49:42 <Bjarni> you will notice a great speed difference if you connect the same disk to USB and firewire (only one at a time :P ) 20:49:49 <dihedral> but i dont have that converter 20:49:59 <dihedral> i only have usb to 2.5" ide :-P 20:50:58 <Gonozal_VIII> one of those that run on usb power? 20:51:31 <dihedral> usb => 2.5" ide connecter, the 2.5" ide connector includes power for 2.5" disks 20:51:56 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. 20:52:08 <Bjarni> I have a case for 2.5" HDs and I realised this issue so I made sure that it has both USB and firewire 20:52:29 <dihedral> :-) 20:52:33 <dihedral> mail it to me :-D 20:52:33 <Bjarni> it's kind of funny. It can be powered by one firewire cable or two USB cables 20:52:40 <Bjarni> it's in use :P 20:52:50 <Gonozal_VIII> firewire doesn't supply power or does it? 20:52:58 <Bjarni> it has 12V 20:53:07 <Bjarni> but only in 6 pin cables 20:53:24 <Bjarni> some products has only 4 pins and then there aren't any power 20:54:03 <Bjarni> I think firewire can support 8W or something like that though a single cable 20:54:57 <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't sound like much 20:55:08 <Bjarni> the place where you need it most is if you have a notebook and want to power an external HD from the notebook battery but it looks like only Apple decided to include 6 pin firewire in their notebooks. Everybody else saved some power and space and only added 4 pins 20:55:26 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't sound like much <-- it is compared to the max 2,5W from USB 20:55:57 <Gonozal_VIII> aaah 5v 500ma is 2,5w... 20:56:12 <Bjarni> *mA 20:56:15 <Bjarni> *W 20:56:22 <Bjarni> there is a BIG difference :P 20:56:33 <Gonozal_VIII> uppercase sucks^^ 20:57:10 <Bjarni> mA is 10^-3 A while MA is 10^6 A... so a factor 9 20:57:31 <Bjarni> uppercase/lowercase matters 20:59:27 <geoff_k_> dihedral, map 3 i lost conection i guess this cpu is just not good enough for too much going on 21:00:11 <Rubidium> mb vs MB is even bigger 21:00:22 <Rubidium> Bjarni: and it's a factor 10^9, not 9 21:00:39 <Bjarni> right 21:00:40 <Gonozal_VIII> which os are you running on geoff? 21:01:34 <geoff_k_> slackware 21:01:37 <geoff_k_> 12.0 21:02:54 <geoff_k_> i find it hard to blieve though because im sure my old PIII's used to work better than this, im going to patch some systems up with different distros i ithnk and see how that goes 21:02:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11481 /trunk/src/ (88 files in 7 dirs): -Codechange: Rename the HASBIT function to fit with the naming style 21:03:01 <geoff_k_> something not right somewhere 21:03:05 <Gonozal_VIII> so the fact that you're running for 2 weeks without reboot shouldn't matter... 21:03:23 <geoff_k_> yeah i never had to reboot 21:03:42 <geoff_k_> plenty of free ram in the system no swap used 21:03:44 <dihedral> skidd13: you're doing some good coding style work there :-) 21:04:05 <skidd13> dihedral: yup, expect more 21:04:13 <geoff_k_> i have had issues before wiht this cpu overheating it why it was thrown out and came into my hands 21:04:30 <geoff_k_> since i cleaned it though its been fine 21:04:56 <geoff_k_> when i found it just segfaulted at everything 21:07:03 <dihedral> skidd13: are you doing that acording to the 'current' guid line or is there a 'new' one? 21:07:25 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl5402B356.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 21:08:09 <skidd13> dihedral: mainly the current ;) 21:08:17 <dihedral> _mainly_ ? 21:08:58 <skidd13> dihedral: There is some work going on... 21:09:04 <dihedral> :-) 21:09:11 <dihedral> give me a url when it's finished :-P 21:09:26 <skidd13> dihedral: www.openttd.org 21:09:47 <Rubidium> wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Coding Style 21:09:59 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7A151.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:56 <dihedral> There is currently no text in this page :-) 21:14:03 * dihedral expects a slap.... 21:20:06 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-13-76.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:20:31 <Rubidium> dihedral: it works for me 21:20:52 <dihedral> now it does :-) 21:20:57 <Gonozal_VIII> %20 21:21:13 <dihedral> yep 21:21:19 <dihedral> it was _ before 21:21:25 <dihedral> :-( my bad 21:21:25 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: that's something I leave to your browser 21:22:12 *** lugo [~lugo@p4FD5CC53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:14 <Wezz6400> I think it's the wiki that turns the space into a underscore 21:23:27 <Wezz6400> firefox converts it to %20 for any other link for me 21:24:37 <Gonozal_VIII> there is an entry with space that redirects to the one with _ 21:25:00 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: no, the wiki does that automagically 21:25:22 <Rubidium> there is no entry "Coding Style", only "Coding_style" and "Coding_Style" 21:25:38 <Gonozal_VIII> i like automagic :-) 21:44:57 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-13-76.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:50 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:13 *** Peakki [antti@cs181247045.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: LÀhdössÀ] 21:50:18 *** oh_ [~oh@c96F5BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has left #openttd [] 21:50:50 <skidd13> night 21:50:53 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A4269.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [ZZZzzzz.] 21:51:25 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:51:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host91-236-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:02:31 *** dihedral is now known as Guest1271 22:02:36 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-219-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:03:49 *** Guest1271 [~dihedral@joshua.dihedral.de] has quit [Quit: i have been replaced] 22:05:21 *** Arpad [~Gali@tor-irc.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:30 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-128-246.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 22:05:34 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-128-246.netcologne.de] has quit [] 22:06:37 <dihedral> Bjarni: you around? with like 5 mins to spare...? 22:06:55 <dihedral> no worries, no diff flying around :-P 22:08:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> ...yet :p 22:08:45 <dihedral> LOL 22:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> pssst... some people are sleeping 22:09:26 <dihedral> lol 22:09:31 * dihedral smiles 22:11:23 <Sacro> Bjarni doesn't sleep 22:11:26 <Sacro> he just rests his eyes 22:11:54 <Rubidium> shouldn't someone be awake before (s)he can sleep? 22:12:32 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-176-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> some ... let's call it ... animals ... sleep the whole winter 22:13:25 <Gonozal_VIII> hibernation 22:13:33 <Gonozal_VIII> :-) 22:13:53 <dihedral> my 'tiger' on my laptop hibernates :-D 22:14:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> tigers belong in the tank 22:14:25 <Gonozal_VIII> tiger is a tank 22:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> (even james bond used that phrase) 22:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> roger moore, i believe 22:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> but i'm not really sure 22:34:38 <dihedral> tiger is a os 22:34:51 <dihedral> 10.4 22:34:54 <dihedral> os x 22:35:31 <Prof_Frink> GIBBON 22:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> i never heard of an os called gibbon 22:36:16 <glx> ubuntu IIRC 22:36:54 <tiaz> yeah, gutsy 22:39:56 <dihedral> i much like potato and itchy from debian 22:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> i totally ROFLed when i read that they released "Cartoffel" :p 22:42:15 <Prof_Frink> "itchy"? 22:45:56 <dihedral> currently unstable 22:46:09 <dihedral> development is sid and always will be 22:46:16 <Prof_Frink> unstable is sid. 22:46:30 <Prof_Frink> testing is currently lenny, stable is etch 22:47:07 * dihedral got muddled 22:47:38 <dihedral> meant etch 22:47:48 <dihedral> from etch a sketch 22:49:32 *** Ailure [Cat@194.47.44.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:53 <SmatZ> I really like bugreports like FS#1455 22:50:59 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-163-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:51:43 <dihedral> lol - that is nice 22:51:56 <dihedral> let's use bugs.openttd.org instead of the tt-forums :-D 22:52:40 <glx> SmatZ: yes it's a nice one ;) 22:53:20 <dihedral> glx: frame it :-) 22:53:23 <SmatZ> :-) 22:55:32 <geoff_k_> i had a look at gutsy to see how it goes for using Xen (nothing else) and it was really bad, lots of bugs and work arounds wasn't impressed 22:56:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> "i spent 5 minutes playing around with $DISTRI and found $ANNOYING_FEATURE, i totally hate it." 22:59:26 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: Screw you guy, I'm going home and smoke pot] 23:00:44 <dihedral> LOL 23:00:49 <dihedral> nice one Eddi|zuHause2 23:01:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E789.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:01:14 <geoff_k_> yeah really it was like that 23:01:17 <ln-> who likes sangria? 23:01:19 <fjb> Moin 23:01:56 <valhallasw> sangria is good 23:01:57 <SpComb> Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) 23:01:57 <fjb> !logs 23:02:10 <valhallasw> in not-too-large quantities 23:02:13 *** MarkSlap [~me@h64n1c1o1114.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 23:02:52 <ln-> good it is 23:03:45 <Sacro> !bug 1455 23:03:49 <Sacro> !bugs 1455 23:03:53 <Sacro> !fs 1455 23:03:56 <Sacro> hmm :\ 23:04:01 <Sacro> @bug 1455 23:04:04 <Sacro> @bugs 1455 23:04:05 <DorpsGek> Sacro: [FS#1455] Bug Report (sev: Low, prio: Normal, status: New): 'Impossible to build a new bank', by wolfgang - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1455 23:04:06 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: The command "bugs" is available in the OpenTTD and WT2 plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "bugs". 23:04:08 <Sacro> :D 23:04:12 *** ludde [~ludde@ua-83-227-238-252.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:34 <fjb> The ghost has left again... 23:16:23 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E94E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:17 <ln-> Bjarni: do you like sangria? 23:34:19 *** geoff_k_ [~geoff_k__@host86-144-113-144.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Quit] 23:36:06 *** dihedral [~dihedral_@dslb-084-056-219-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.9/2007102514]] 23:37:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:41:19 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl4-208-49.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 23:41:32 <slafs> I've set realistic_acceleration = true in openttd.cfg, but the game says it is off. Why? 23:42:34 <Digitalfox> ln-: Is Sangria a drink? 23:42:55 <Digitalfox> In Portugal it is :) 23:42:57 <SmatZ> slafs: in the game intro is it off? 23:43:19 <slafs> I dunno, dedicated server 23:44:09 <slafs> is it possible to set with rcon or console? 23:44:29 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:19 <SmatZ> slafs: patch realistic_acceleration 1 could work 23:46:12 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: do you like sangria? <--- err.. that depends... are you thinking of the same sangria as I'm thinking about? :) 23:46:48 <Bjarni> <dihedral> Bjarni: you around? with like 5 mins to spare...? <-- well... I am now 23:47:03 <Bjarni> the question is more about the 5 minutes though :/ 23:48:59 <fjb> Hm, the new one way road gui is nice. Could that easily be implemented for railroads? 23:49:33 <SmatZ> fjb: one-way rail? aren't one-way signals enough? 23:50:12 <Gonozal_VIII> you mean automatically place a signal every x tiles? 23:50:16 <Bjarni> just place a one way signal and you have a one way track 23:50:17 <fjb> The semantics of one way signals is horribly wrong. A train should just ignore a signal for the other direction. 23:50:56 <Bjarni> you mean you want something like simutrans signalling? 23:51:35 <fjb> I don't know simultrans. But I never heard about trains stopping ultimatively at the backside of a signal... 23:51:48 <Bjarni> oh they do 23:51:50 <Bjarni> sort of 23:51:59 <Bjarni> well 23:52:22 <fjb> Sort of? Under what circumstances? 23:53:04 <Bjarni> if a train drives on the left track and there is an entrance signal (to a station) for the right track, then they have to stop in front of that signal even though it's not for that particular track 23:53:13 <Bjarni> they will then look into the backside of the exit signal 23:54:25 <fjb> But what counts is the signal at the neighbouring track facing the same direction as the train, not the signal with it's backside in front of the train. 23:55:03 <ln-> Digitalfox: sure it is a drink. 23:55:21 <Bjarni> I don't know it 23:55:26 <Bjarni> but then again I don't drink 23:55:47 <Digitalfox> ln-: I asked because it could be another thing in your country 23:56:02 <ln-> Sangria er en blanding af vin, sÊdvanligvis rÞdvin, og frugt, og gerne et sÞdningsmiddel. Andre ingredienser kan ogsÃ¥ hÞre med. Det findes dog mange forskellige varianter og opskrifter. Sangria blir ofte serveret om sommeren som en kold drik, og er for mange desuden synonym med 1970'ernes spanske grisefester. 23:56:07 <Digitalfox> It's a very loved drink here in Portugal 23:56:45 <Digitalfox> Lot's of people from teeangers to adults and old people drink it ;) 23:56:54 <Bjarni> ln- just said it's popular when travelling to Spain during the 70s 23:56:55 <ln-> Digitalfox: we "don't" have it here... (it can be bought somewhere but it's not common nor popular). 23:56:57 <Digitalfox> *teenagers 23:57:33 <Bjarni> now he told me what it's made of but I have never heard of it 23:57:34 <ln-> on our trip to Barcelona last summer we had it every day, i think. 23:57:44 <Digitalfox> Bjarni: I don't even know what language was that lol 23:57:46 <Bjarni> drunk bastards :P 23:58:04 <Bjarni> Digitalfox: a readable one :P 23:58:06 <Digitalfox> personally i love beer :) Lot's of it eh eh 23:58:06 *** Gekz [~gekko@CPE-121-217-230-66.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:58:16 <ln-> A sangria é uma bebida ou coquetel feita com base numa mistura de vinho tinto, sumo de fruta e pedaços de frutas e açúcar. 23:58:19 <Bjarni> I don't drink beer either 23:58:33 <Digitalfox> A week without 20 it's not a good one :\ 23:58:45 <Digitalfox> ln-: nice 23:58:53 <Bjarni> <Bjarni> drunk bastards :P 23:59:01 <Digitalfox> hell yeah.. 23:59:04 <Digitalfox> it's fun 23:59:25 <Bjarni> not for me 23:59:41 <ln-> Bjarni: despite the rÞdvin, sangria tastes better.. it's sort of a refreshing, cold drink like coke. 23:59:44 <Bjarni> people say stupid stuff when they are drunk 23:59:46 * fjb wonders what fun drinking is.