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00:00:00 <SmatZ> Bjarni: he isn't here :) 00:00:16 <Ruud> Now if SpComb is gonna wake up 00:00:16 <Bjarni> you didn't say that it should be somebody in here 00:00:21 <Ruud> woudl be great 00:00:31 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> i'm only 3rd semester :P <-- youngster 00:00:42 <Rubidium> SpComb is probably sleeping already 00:00:58 <Ruud> but what about the idea of generating graphics in game? 00:01:14 <Gonozal_VIII> even more cpu consuming? 00:01:32 <Bjarni> why would we want to use more CPU power? 00:01:34 <Gonozal_VIII> and ram... 00:01:34 <Ruud> since the images displayed are like 32x32 pixel images, rendering by the GPU wont take long 00:01:42 <Ruud> more GPU power 00:01:46 <Bjarni> instead of prerendering stuff 00:01:49 *** BigBB_ [~BigBB@p5B0431B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BigBB_] 00:01:59 <Ruud> any voodoo1+ graca would be able to render a simple industry 00:02:15 <Bjarni> Ruud: maybe we should start to use the GPU instead of making the CPU do all the work 00:02:19 * Rubidium doesn't think MorphOS's GPUs are capable of that 00:02:26 <Bjarni> that too 00:02:27 <Ruud> you can also cache the rendered stuf, since u need only one image 00:03:00 <Bjarni> why would you render stuff and then cache it instead of saving the cached stuff in a grf file and load that one? 00:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the sense of that... 00:03:10 <Ruud> and if one changes the viewing angle, these images are rerendered once for that viewing angle 00:03:12 <Rubidium> why render them in game when prerendering has exactly the same effect 00:03:30 <Ruud> change colors, apply zooming 00:03:49 <Ruud> apply different viewing angles 00:04:05 <Ruud> apply better lighting 00:04:06 <Bjarni> you mean that we should cache a vehicle in all the used company colours instead of just once? 00:04:09 <Rubidium> and how do you render animation sprites? 00:04:25 <Rubidium> and how would you have better lighting with 8 bits paletted colours? 00:04:35 <Ruud> dunno, these anim sprites are rendered by some tool? Then it can be done in-game also. 00:04:43 <Gonozal_VIII> there are no different angles... and if there will be then most likely only one for every direction which can be done easily with normal sprites 00:04:46 *** freepenguin [~andrew@host158-135-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 00:04:53 <Ruud> since u can change the lighting on the rendering, it would be more dynamic 00:04:54 <Rubidium> animation -> palette animation 00:04:56 <Bjarni> we shouldn't have different angles 00:05:07 <Bjarni> the current one works great 00:05:17 <Bjarni> it would be way too much work to add another one 00:05:21 <Sacro> indeed 00:05:28 <Ruud> why not? it would be cool to change the map angly in predefined angles, like 45, 90, 180, 270 etc 00:05:39 <Bjarni> every single sprite would have to be redrawn 00:05:50 <Ruud> yes, which will be easy since they are generated 00:05:50 <Gonozal_VIII> that doesn't need 3d graphics, only 4 sprites 00:05:53 <Rubidium> and that is a not-going-to-happen 00:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you do it ;) 00:06:27 <Rubidium> with the 'speed' at which the TTD sprites are 'replaced' by 32bpp sprites 00:06:29 <Ruud> I am just having the idea here, i hope you guys can shoot it off or improve/refine the idea 00:06:38 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: I disagree with that statement. It's not enough to do it. It also have to be sane when it comes to resource usage 00:06:48 <Bjarni> ok 00:06:48 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:58 * Bjarni shoots Ruud's idea 00:06:59 <Bjarni> done 00:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the sprite redrawing 00:07:11 <Rubidium> I don't see the full set of sprites anytime in the century 00:07:18 <Ruud> first: resources are not a point. GPU's we hhave nowadays can render these easily 00:07:31 <Bjarni> Ruud: we aren't using the GPUs at all 00:07:37 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 00:07:39 *** freepenguin [~andrew@host158-135-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:44 <Bjarni> they speak GPU language the game does not 00:07:47 <Ruud> second: it will be easier for graphics designers to add graphics (no precaching) 00:08:01 <Ruud> So? 00:08:06 <Ruud> then we start using them! 00:08:09 <Ruud> :) 00:08:14 <Bjarni> how? 00:08:24 <Ruud> again: it is just the idea. oimplementation is second 00:08:26 <Bjarni> they aren't compatible with our graphics system 00:08:27 <Rubidium> Ruud: better start of a new game (from scratch) if you want to have 3d rendered graphics 00:08:38 <Ruud> My idea is easy to implement 00:08:43 <Bjarni> then do it 00:08:46 <Rubidium> as it won't be like TTD in a long shot 00:08:46 <Bjarni> yourself 00:08:55 <Ruud> since instead of getting the image from a file, the image is now gotten from an external libb which generates it 00:09:00 <Rubidium> Ruud: easy account to how many hours? 00:09:13 <Bjarni> 5000? 00:09:19 <Ruud> easy in the sense that it wont be hard to integrate in the current code 00:09:38 <Ruud> i didnt mean easy in: simple and trivial to do 00:09:39 <Ruud> :) 00:09:41 <Rubidium> then you know more about it then I do 00:09:47 <Eddi|zuHause> have you even had a look at the current code? 00:09:53 <Ruud> yes 00:09:54 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no he has not 00:10:05 <Rubidium> or rather, if he has, he has lied 00:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruud: wrong answer 00:10:09 <Ruud> corerect me if i am wrong 00:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you are wrong 00:10:20 <Ruud> my reasoning is as following: 00:10:20 <Bjarni> Ruud: the correct answer was "no" 00:10:27 <Ruud> huh? 00:10:30 <Ruud> anyway 00:10:30 <Bjarni> this will be good 00:10:47 <Ruud> the game engine gets a GRF file, where a sprite is contained in 00:10:57 <Ruud> same is for the animated stuff 00:11:07 <Rubidium> palette animation! 00:11:15 <Ruud> instead of loading it from a file, it then loads it up from a library 00:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and this is supposed to improve what? 00:11:55 <Rubidium> redrawing the whole screen vs. changing a few bits in the palette 00:12:03 <Ruud> how do you mean? 00:12:13 <Ruud> just to get the picture right 00:12:14 <Rubidium> palette animation is easy and 'cheap' 00:12:29 <Bjarni> <Ruud> just to get the picture right <-- no 00:12:33 <Rubidium> when you use those rendered images, you have to redraw the WHOLE screen for every frame 00:12:42 <Ruud> I just proposed a different way to acquire the graphics data, not a different way of showing it 00:12:57 <Rubidium> so it is going to render images in the TTD palette 00:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> again, what is this supposed to improve? 00:13:24 <Rubidium> I think that is going to cause some trouble with the 'rendering' of the lighting 00:13:43 <Ruud> graphics engine wants to render a tree --> requests tree sprite from 3D lib ->> 3D lib renders it in GPU in-memory as a sprite --> sends back to graphics engine --> renders sprite the same way it did 00:13:59 <Rubidium> Ruud: and now with palette animation 00:14:18 <Bjarni> GPUs prefer 32 bit graphics. We use 8 bit 00:14:52 <Ruud> better lighting (different lighting positions), possibility to change viewing angle, smooth zooming 00:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there is absolutely no sense in what you are suggesting 00:15:13 <Ruud> then onvert the 32bit to 8 00:15:28 <Bjarni> for every sprite? 00:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you still only have the same 8bit colours, there is not much you can do with "lighting" 00:15:34 <Gonozal_VIII> convert hardware? 00:15:46 <Rubidium> Ruud: and that then needs a human 'touch' to generate good looking graphics 00:15:53 <Rubidium> ask Pikkabird about it 00:15:58 <Ruud> sun is coming from N right now 00:16:09 <Ruud> then you would be able to simply have it from south 00:16:20 *** eJoJ [~ejoj@106.84-48-125.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 00:16:21 <Ruud> lighting is applied right now in the game 00:16:31 <Bjarni> shadows are sprites 00:16:44 <Bjarni> not rendered at all 00:16:51 <Ruud> yes it is 00:17:01 <Bjarni> ... 00:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> this is both stupid and not going to work... 00:17:15 <Gonozal_VIII> the sun doesn't come from the south everywhere anyways 00:17:15 <Ruud> cuz if i want to make a new grf for something, i have to incorporate the fact where the sun is coming from in my graphics app 00:17:29 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: lies! 00:17:57 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: actually we get it from the south 00:17:59 <Gonozal_VIII> oh i forgot... the world is flat and the sun is static... sorry^^ 00:18:14 <Bjarni> but that's not the issue here 00:18:16 <Ruud> SE actually :) 00:18:21 <Ruud> i looked wrong 00:18:31 <Bjarni> doesn't matter 00:18:40 <Bjarni> your idea will never work 00:18:45 <Bjarni> so stop talking about it 00:18:49 <Ruud> i dont have a clue what pallette animation is 00:18:54 <Gonozal_VIII> on the southern hemisphere, the sun is in the north at noon 00:18:55 <Ruud> why woudlnt it work? 00:19:06 <Bjarni> <Ruud> i dont have a clue what pallette animation is <-- we noticed 00:19:10 <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: also wrong 00:19:27 <Bjarni> Rubidium: then you explain it 00:19:28 <Gonozal_VIII> wrong what why how :S 00:20:32 <Bjarni> stand on the centre of the South Pole during the summer (local summer). The sun will be in the direction of the North Pole, hence in north 00:20:39 <Rubidium> the sun 'moves' between approximately 23 degrees North and 23 degrees South 00:21:02 <Bjarni> Rubidium: we are north of that ;) 00:21:04 <Gonozal_VIII> i was only approximating... 00:21:15 <Bjarni> and if you are outside that then it's always in either north or south 00:21:29 <Bjarni> depending on your location 00:21:35 <Rubidium> so when the sun is at the 23 degrees South 'position', middle of summer on the southern hemisphere, everywhere north of that 23 degrees south will have the sun in the south 00:21:54 <Rubidium> Bjarni: unless the sun is straight above of you 00:22:05 <Ruud> i cant see how palette animation would be a problem for my idea (read articles about it) 00:22:19 <Gonozal_VIII> impossible rubidium 00:22:22 <SmatZ> Rubidium: you are even worse perfectionist than I am ... :-/ 00:22:35 <Bjarni> if you are way north of 23° then the sun will never be in zenit 00:22:51 <Gonozal_VIII> the sun can't be directly above you when you're above 23° north or south 00:22:53 <Rubidium> how does the renderer know that piece of the model needs to be 'drawn' as palette animatable colour? 00:22:59 <Bjarni> perfectionism is great if used correctly 00:23:02 <Gonozal_VIII> ah... 00:23:16 <Rubidium> because in that case it must not do the lighting in some cases, but in other cases it should 00:24:14 <Gonozal_VIII> light should just always come from the same direction no matter what angle, much easier 00:24:24 <Ruud> that is for the designer to define. When designing an animation, that animation should be designed in 3D (f curz). Then you convert the 2D images to a 2D pallette animation 00:24:44 <Bjarni> (f curz)... 00:24:54 <Bjarni> scared of wearing our your keys? 00:25:04 <Gonozal_VIII> that way you can also reuse sprites for different sides of the same building 00:25:05 <Bjarni> you must have a really crappy keyboard if that can be an issue 00:25:35 <Gonozal_VIII> and you don't need to redraw every vehicle set... 00:25:39 <Ruud> look, if i am wrong please correct me. 00:25:50 * Bjarni corrects Ruud 00:26:06 <Rubidium> Ruud: please explain what YOU think palette animation is 00:26:12 <Ruud> yes. but since the graphics designers proably have already a 3D model, this wont be a big problem 00:26:33 <Gonozal_VIII> not necessarily 00:26:50 <Ruud> simply by changing the palette u animate a static image 00:26:51 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't need 3d models to draw sprites 00:27:03 <Bjarni> all my attempts to draw sprites was in 2D 00:27:14 <Gonozal_VIII> also different artists use different model formats 00:27:27 <Ruud> i know 00:27:28 <Rubidium> now HOW do you define whether a part of a model needs to use those animation colours? 00:28:32 <Rubidium> and how do you prevent the GPU from applying the lighting stuff on those parts of the model, because if they get slightly changed due to for example a shadow, the color won't be matchable when converting to 8 bits colours 00:29:37 <Ruud> now HOW do you define whether a part of a model needs to use those animation colours? --> i don't understand this, probably cuz of my limited palette anim knowledge 00:30:19 <Rubidium> somehow the 'designer' needs to tell what part of the model needs to use the palette animation colours, i.e. the colours that are actually animated 00:30:19 <Ruud> you dont want to prevent the gpu from doing that 00:30:40 <Rubidium> but then the palette animation will not work anymore in *any* shadow situation 00:30:43 <Ruud> and i dont know specifics about converting 32->8 bit 00:31:50 <Rubidium> so you claim something is easy when you don't even know how something needs to be implemented 00:31:53 <Bjarni> 32->8 is tricky as it converts RGB colours to palette. It's way easier (and faster) to convert 8 to 32 bit 00:31:54 <Ruud> how would we solve these problems? 00:32:03 <Bjarni> we don't 00:32:09 <Ruud> off course we do 00:32:13 <Bjarni> how? 00:32:32 <Ruud> i dont know yet, but i do know there is a solution 00:32:41 <Ruud> as there is always a solution for every tech problem 00:32:45 <Bjarni> yeah 00:32:49 <Ruud> in software de land 00:32:52 <Ruud> de=dev 00:32:54 <Bjarni> but is it fast enough for real time? 00:32:59 <Ruud> i think so 00:33:02 <Bjarni> I don't 00:33:14 * Sacro sighs 00:33:15 <Ruud> since these images only have to be rendered once 00:33:24 <Sacro> and cached?~ 00:33:24 <Ruud> can be done even before game loads 00:33:29 <Gonozal_VIII> so again... why realtime, if you only need one (or four) images? 00:33:40 <Ruud> only things that affect the rendering need to be rerendered in-game 00:33:41 <Bjarni> but converting them from 32 bit to 8 bit is slower than the process you try to get rid of 00:33:48 * Rubidium thinks aqua regia is the best solution for this problem 00:33:56 <Belugas_Gone> with over 5000 sprites cached... brrrr... 00:34:02 <Ruud> which process i am trying to get rid off? 00:34:10 <Rubidium> Belugas_Gone: 5000? That way to low number 00:34:19 <Ruud> I am just trying to ADD a process, along with the exisiting one 00:34:24 <Ruud> never said it would replace it 00:34:24 <Bjarni> Ruud: loading grf sprites 00:34:28 <Rubidium> all vehicles sprites count at least 16 times 00:34:42 <Belugas_Gone> Rubidium : right... thus the over ;) 00:34:43 <Rubidium> and then at least 3 zoom levels 00:34:58 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:35:02 <Ruud> i think there are not a lot of objects in the game 00:35:11 <Ruud> some vehicles, some trees, some buildings 00:35:12 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 00:35:26 <Rubidium> Ruud: keep thinking 00:35:27 <Ruud> nothing compared to what a modern FPS of objects have 00:35:41 <Ruud> which are rendered realtime 00:35:47 <Ruud> at least 30 times a second 00:36:03 <Ruud> with objects who are *way* more complex then, say an industrial station 00:36:15 <Rubidium> but then, a modern FPS doesn't run under MorphOS 00:36:24 <Ruud> :P 00:36:40 <Ruud> MorphOS doesnt support OpenGL? 00:36:49 <Rubidium> and a modern FPS would be totally unplayable on my laptop 00:37:01 <ln-> done watching TNG [x] 00:37:14 <Bjarni> <Ruud> MorphOS doesnt support OpenGL? <-- not really 00:37:29 <Ruud> MorhOS==some linux derivate> 00:37:30 <Ruud> ? 00:37:37 <Rubidium> lol 00:37:44 <Rubidium> an AmigaOS derivate 00:37:46 <Bjarni> also BeOS only supports software rendered OpenGL 00:37:55 <Bjarni> Ruud: you don't even know the platforms we support? 00:38:07 <Ruud> lol 00:38:25 <Ruud> no, i don't even know the platforms we support ;) 00:38:27 <Rubidium> and OS2 doesn't support OpenGL either I think 00:38:46 <Ruud> but it can be optional 00:38:47 <Bjarni> I worked on making the game work on MorphOS long before you even heard of our game 00:38:54 <Bjarni> possibly years before you heard about it 00:38:55 <Ruud> I mean, it can just be a setting like right now 00:39:06 <Bjarni> ... 00:39:16 <Ruud> if u dont have opengl, then good ol' prerendered sprites are used :) 00:39:44 <Bjarni> well.. mainly to kai worked on MorphOS, but we did talk a whole lot about it 00:39:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 00:39:54 <Ruud> if u do have opengl, then u have some extra graphics feats :) 00:40:01 <ln-> Rubidium: i think Warp 4 has support for OpenGL. 00:40:02 <Bjarni> we aren't going to have two graphic rendering systems 00:40:05 <Ruud> why did u do it? 00:40:14 <Bjarni> because I could :) 00:40:16 <Ruud> it is not a different graphic rendering systenm 00:40:23 <Bjarni> and I had just finished the OSX port 00:40:28 <Ruud> it is a different way to acquire the graphic data 00:40:43 <Gonozal_VIII> your idea would require all grf developers to use the same 3d graphics program 00:40:45 <Ruud> graphics are rendered in the same way, using efficient, fast C code :) 00:40:50 <Ruud> why? 00:41:00 <Bjarni> Ruud: if the displayed graphics are the same then there is no need to do so. If they aren't then you are rendering something else, right? 00:41:13 <Ruud> the 3D lib can be programmed to accept different types of 3D models? 00:41:37 <Ruud> the displayed graphics, at first, are the same 00:41:52 <Ruud> later you might add features which can be added cuz of the 3D rendering 00:41:55 <Gonozal_VIII> lots of work to get it to support all and keep it up to date 00:42:00 <Ruud> i know 00:42:11 <Rubidium> well... first make sure that there is a decent set of models (i.e. one that includes all graphics) before we even start to consider it 00:42:22 <Ruud> isnt one there? 00:42:27 <Rubidium> well... NO 00:42:41 <Ruud> what do yo mean exaclty with that> 00:42:43 <Ruud> ? 00:42:48 <Ruud> "decent set of models" 00:42:58 <Rubidium> one that includes all graphics 00:43:08 <Ruud> ah off course 00:43:13 <Rubidium> and not only a few 00:43:23 <Ruud> thats why an ottd install still needs the ttdlx install dir :) 00:43:46 <Gonozal_VIII> usually the sprites aren't drawn in 3d, except the 32bpp 00:43:47 <Rubidium> yes, because it used TTD's graphics 00:44:04 <Rubidium> and for 32bpp there are only a few sprites that are done 00:44:12 <Ruud> so 32bpp sprites ARE possible? 00:44:18 <Rubidium> not even 5% 00:44:31 <Gonozal_VIII> are possible and exist 00:44:46 <Ruud> then i do not understand the problem with the 8 bit thingie? 00:44:47 <Rubidium> but at quite a performance disadvantage 00:45:15 <Ruud> ah, so rendering a whole 2Kx2K map is quite harsh? 00:45:16 <Rubidium> Ruud: you still needs stuff for palette animation 00:45:18 <SpComb> hmm 00:45:25 <Ruud> SpComb! 00:45:30 <Ruud> you are alive! 00:45:34 <Ruud> sorry 00:45:44 <Rubidium> no, it's his both saying hmm every now and then 00:45:45 <Ruud> I have a question 00:45:48 <SpComb> Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) 00:45:48 <Rubidium> !logs 00:45:52 <Rubidium> see, it's a bot! 00:46:02 <Ruud> ah 00:46:06 <Ruud> lol 00:46:09 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 00:46:12 <SpComb> pong indeed 00:46:17 <SpComb> I was offline 00:46:18 <Ruud> lol 00:46:30 <SpComb> ask away 00:46:46 <Ruud> u created some neat webcam thingie 00:47:10 <Ruud> i created a google-maps style webcomponent to view savegames in a browser 00:47:25 <Gonozal_VIII> rat watch thing or what do you mean? 00:47:32 <Gonozal_VIII> ah that 00:47:36 <Gonozal_VIII> webcam... 00:47:39 <Gonozal_VIII> not webcam^^ 00:47:42 <SpComb> savegames? It works already? 00:47:51 <Ruud> yes, have a screencast demo 00:47:58 <SpComb> url to it? 00:48:05 <Ruud> written in JS+HTTML+CSS 00:48:14 <Ruud> somewhere on RS, hold on 00:48:16 <Ruud> 50meg file 00:48:27 <SpComb> it's not online anywhere? 00:48:40 <Ruud> yes 00:48:41 <Ruud> http://rapidshare.com/files/75204373/sc.swf 00:48:48 <Ruud> RS=RapidShare 00:48:56 <Ruud> u using windows? 00:49:11 <Bjarni> no 00:49:13 <Ruud> my question is 00:49:24 <Bjarni> windows is for people who don't know what a real computer OS is 00:49:29 <Ruud> (need to explain problem first) 00:49:33 <SpComb> a Shockwave flash that renders an OpenTTD savegame? 00:49:40 <Ruud> no 00:49:54 <Ruud> javascript code that displays images google-maps style 00:50:10 <Ruud> with some CSS+HTML for eyecandy 00:50:11 <SpComb> you're confusing me slightly 00:50:16 * Rubidium doesn't like the google-maps style 00:50:22 <Gonozal_VIII> swf is flash 00:50:23 <SpComb> what's the sc.swf that you linked to? 00:50:28 <Ruud> it is a screencast 00:50:29 <SpComb> oh right, it's a video of it? 00:50:32 <Ruud> yes 00:50:45 <Ruud> cuz my router died, my server isnt connected to the web 00:51:16 <Ruud> for some reason my webserver on my client wont server to the outside world 00:51:26 <Ruud> the way it works right now 00:51:35 <SpComb> it's downloading. What was the question that you wanted to ask, then? 00:51:50 <Rubidium> ofcourse not, it's not on your local network... so nobody can access it; default MS policy 00:51:52 <Ruud> is a savegame is screenshotted, creating a huge (hundreds of megapixel) image 00:52:13 <Ruud> it should, but its a story ill explain later 00:52:27 <Ruud> the huge image then is sliced up in 256x256 btmaps 00:52:36 <Ruud> which are served using javascript to the browser 00:52:42 <Ruud> now it would be neat 00:52:54 <Rubidium> and randomly an image is shown of the wrong zoom level 00:53:02 <Ruud> to have a library/openttd forkish software to generate the image from he savegame in realtime 00:53:58 <Ruud> cuz now i have to make a screenshot, shrink it x times (where x= number of zoom levels) then slice all images into smaller squares 00:54:16 <Ruud> which is not only CPU consuming, but also space consuming 00:54:36 <Rubidium> Ruud: you can do everything except the zooming already using pipes 00:54:57 <Ruud> what/how do you mean? "do everything"? 00:54:59 <Sacro> libttd? 00:55:03 <SpComb> you can script my current code to have OpenTTD load the savegame, and then just use my webcam thing as-is 00:55:14 <SpComb> Sacro: that's what I'm writing, kind of. A binary API inside OpenTTD 00:55:24 <Ruud> thats what im looking for :) 00:55:35 <SpComb> you've seen http://dev.myottd.net:8119/ ? 00:55:37 <Rubidium> would a binary API be needed? 00:55:40 <Ruud> the ideal situation would be to have a function like 00:55:51 <Sacro> SpComb: indeed 00:55:54 <Rubidium> just use the screenshot and savegame load commands from the dedicated server 00:56:20 <SpComb> Rubidium: wouldn't work for my webcam thing 00:56:25 <Rubidium> hmm, but Ruud doesn't like that because would be a 25+ year old design that hasn't changed a bit 00:56:26 <Ruud> GetSquareFromSavegame(string filename, int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, ImageType type) 00:56:28 <Rubidium> SpComb: why not? 00:56:41 <Ruud> Rubidium, that is not fair 00:57:07 <SpComb> http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/openttd/api_47_11576.patch 00:57:27 <Ruud> the dev.myottd link is dead 00:57:35 <SpComb> Ruud: I just started it up 00:57:52 <Ruud> ok 00:58:01 <SpComb> my current issue is that I have some bug with my code and the OpenTTD viewport/screenshot code, it crashes if you try and make a screenshot with half a sign 00:58:49 <SpComb> Ruud: do you want the savegame to be paused, or running in real-time? 00:58:50 <Ruud> that code i looked into in the svn tree 00:58:57 <Ruud> paused 00:59:01 <Ruud> but doesnt matter much 00:59:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-139-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:59:36 <Ruud> I think I will also implement timeshifting 00:59:50 <Ruud> a slider where the user can change the time of the savegame 01:00:09 <Ruud> (in that case u would need multiple savegames off course) 01:00:26 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 01:00:28 <SpComb> paused makes a huge difference, you can cache it 01:00:39 <Ruud> right 01:00:41 <SpComb> one of my biggest issues is that you can't cache anything - lots of load on the server 01:01:01 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm command log :-) 01:01:16 <Ruud> in other words: u cant make a copy of the game graphics, fire a new thread, and then genreate the image? 01:01:38 <SpComb> not sure what you mean with that, what do you need a thread for? 01:01:55 <Ruud> nvm, i messed up with a prev discussion 01:02:15 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:02:27 <Ruud> anyway, looking to that code it seems not to be very hard to create some kind of lib to generate images from savegames? 01:02:39 <SpComb> nope 01:02:55 <SpComb> you need to add an API function to load a savegame, pause it, and then start grabbing screenshots from it 01:03:03 <Ruud> right 01:03:18 <Ruud> never fought with c++ 01:03:31 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:38 <Ruud> will try though, i know c# quite well 01:03:47 <SpComb> the HTTP server is written in Python: http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/test/imagetiles.py 01:04:05 <Ruud> okay 01:04:05 <SpComb> and then the JS code: http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/test/static/tiles.js 01:04:14 <Gonozal_VIII> generate a savegame every month and log commands between them, then the important things like rail layout changes can be watched while stuff like tree growth doesn't need to be stored :-) 01:04:35 <SpComb> and then the python code to interact with OpenTTD: http://myottd.marttila.de/browser/trunk/test/openttd.py 01:05:11 <Ruud> thats just loading an external dll and fire some functions in it 01:05:19 <Ruud> sounds pretty straightforward 01:05:20 <SpComb> the dev.myottd.net stuff is under active development, so I'm interested in working together with anyone else on it 01:05:44 <Ruud> okay 01:06:05 <Ruud> are u interested in creating/helping create such a tool? 01:06:43 <SpComb> spec it out a little bit more specifically. Would the user upload a .sav, and then be able to look at it? Some kind of directory of them? 01:07:10 <SpComb> my main goal is MyOTTD - the webcam thing is kind of me getting sidetracked a bit to create something cool :) 01:07:26 <Ruud> very simplistic 01:07:42 <Ruud> an openttd server just uploads savegames to a webdir 01:07:43 <Rubidium> Brianetta's webcam worked without and fancy changes to OpenTTD itself 01:07:52 <Rubidium> s/and/any/ 01:08:19 <Ruud> on the website, a new item in the list of savegames appears 01:08:20 <SpComb> Rubidium: you can't compare it with the dev.myottd.net one (although it's slightly questionable what purpose it serves) 01:08:39 <Ruud> user clicks on savegame, wants to see it in the browser 01:08:48 <Ruud> then browser reqs some images 01:08:50 <SpComb> Rubidium: modifying the code in OpenTTD opens up a whole new world of possibilities. I was aware that people would complain, but I don't agree 01:09:04 <SpComb> right, I recall you saying that this was for openttdcoop? 01:09:08 <Ruud> webserver opens ottd dll, reqs the image from the savegame 01:09:14 <Ruud> sends to user 01:09:16 <Ruud> voila 01:09:18 <Rubidium> SpComb: I have no problem with people modifying the code 01:09:57 <Ruud> now when the image is requested, a function on the dll is called like mentioned before 01:10:11 <Rubidium> the 'only' problem with it is that most people want 'support' from the OpenTTD developers 01:10:14 <SpComb> Ruud: the way that would work for me is that it creates a new OpenTTD process, loads the savegame into it, pauses it, and then starts serving up screenshot tiles from it 01:10:20 <Ruud> the script on the website handles the "which savegame to get" logic 01:10:41 <Rubidium> and especially OpenTTDCoop's so-called desyncs start to get annoying 01:10:43 <Ruud> right, exactly the way I thought it probably should work 01:10:58 <Ruud> *would* 01:11:00 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:17 <Ruud> the function also needs a parameter zoomlevel 01:11:20 <SpComb> I'd be interested in writing the OpenTTD-side code, and the Python code for it as well 01:11:28 <Ruud> very cool! 01:11:34 <SpComb> my webcam handles zoom levels 01:12:00 <Ruud> All I need is a function in an external DLL with a signature of: 01:12:42 <Ruud> GetSquareFromSavegame(string filename, int x1, int y1, int x2, int y2, int zoomlevel) 01:12:52 <SpComb> define: DLL. What software environment would it run under? 01:13:05 <Ruud> i use VS2005/.NET 01:13:35 <SpComb> I only do linux C and Python 01:13:55 <Ruud> but i guess a custom written webserver shich just serves the images would be sufficient too 01:14:12 <Ruud> cuz oin the end, the image loaded is just a url 01:14:42 <SpComb> indeed 01:14:53 <Ruud> which then can be something like server.com/getimage?id=1&x1=100 etc following the signature 01:15:04 <Ruud> or some other implemetation 01:15:53 <Ruud> and all the functionality is just javscript code, so that will work with any AJAX environment 01:16:15 <Ruud> Cuz it also needs other information, i plan to add a window holding savegame info 01:16:28 <Ruud> company info etc 01:16:31 <SpComb> http://dev.myottd.net:8119/tile?x=12288&y=5120&w=256&h=256&z=1 01:16:32 <Ruud> but that is only later 01:16:53 <Ruud> first thing to have finished is the zooming, viewing & panning of the component 01:16:58 <SpComb> the webcam has a list of vehicles, but it's normally not very noticeable because there's no vehicles in the game 01:17:12 <Ruud> once that works reliably, fast & cross browser then i will add things 01:17:23 <Ruud> hehe 01:18:02 <SpComb> I already have working zoom/scrolling, it's pretty cross-browser, realiable, although the way I implemented focus-zoom has caused some performance hits, but those are easily fixed, not fundamental problems 01:18:19 <Ruud> wow 01:18:43 <SpComb> have you tried using http://dev.myottd.net:8119/ ? 01:19:18 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-30.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:20:05 <Ruud> works quite well 01:20:09 <Ruud> nice work! 01:20:22 <Ruud> though wouldnt work on IE & opera 01:21:38 <Ruud> well, it seems my work was redundant :) 01:22:23 <SpComb> most of the code uses PrototypeJS, there's just some induvidual Mozillaizms 01:22:47 <SpComb> I haven't really tested it in non-mozilla browsers, although a couple friends of mine that use Konqueror haven't complained too much 01:23:09 <Ruud> k 01:23:17 <Ruud> i was planning on using moo.fx 01:23:34 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46a83.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:28 <Ruud> great. This will be a very nice addition to websites like openttd.org or openttdcoop.org 01:25:01 <SpComb> I haven't really thought the actual use-cases through that much, just concentrated on getting it to work, since it's cool and fun to write :) 01:25:09 <Ruud> it stutters when i zoom out though 01:25:59 <Ruud> i would imagine that when there is a link on those websites, there can salso be a link "preview sceanrio/savegame" 01:26:03 <SpComb> currently it always has all four zoom layers visible, z-indexed on top of eachother, it makes firefox have to resample the images a lot, which is slow 01:26:17 <Ruud> ok 01:26:23 <SpComb> but that can be fixed by only showing two layers at a time, and only showing one after zoom is done 01:26:39 <Ruud> simply setting the visible property false on the other layers would help? 01:26:49 <Ruud> ^^ 01:26:54 <Ruud> :) 01:28:03 <SpComb> yeah, hiding the other layers gets rid of the latency 01:28:19 <SpComb> I only need to figure out how to tell when all the images have loaded and the zoom is complete, then I can hide the other layers again 01:28:35 <Ruud> some kind of DOM event, i think 01:28:37 <Ruud> anyway 01:28:47 <SpComb> currently if you scroll around, it will show you blown up previous zoom levels before the current zoom level loads - google maps doesn't work like that 01:28:54 <Ruud> how can we join forces efficiently? 01:29:44 <Ruud> googlemaps *used* to work like that, i am sure. 01:29:58 <Ruud> i was thinking on adding preloading logic 01:30:10 <Ruud> so the surrounding area is already loaded when the user pans to it 01:30:22 <Ruud> so delays are less 01:30:26 <Ruud> when panning 01:31:06 <SpComb> entirely possible, but there's a couple bigger issues to fix first 01:31:11 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77D8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:31:20 <SpComb> I've registered #myottd - perhaps we shouldn't flood this channel too badly 01:31:26 <Ruud> k 01:31:50 <Ruud> --> swith 01:34:25 <shodan> strange question, but can anyone read music here? and if so... 01:34:26 <shodan> what classic video game is this music from? http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii144/howmanymegs/DSC01061.jpg 01:35:34 <shodan> wow, myottd looks good 01:36:02 <SpComb> myottd.net or dev.myottd.net? Former's slightly stale, latter is something interesting 01:36:45 <shodan> dev :) 01:37:40 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:37:41 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:09 <SpComb> then I agree :) 01:45:56 <Sacro> shodan: go on 01:46:27 * Sacro is lacking a keyboard 01:49:57 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F550A2.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:50:38 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 01:54:01 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:03 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 01:57:40 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 02:11:23 *** glx|away is now known as glx 02:15:11 *** glx is now known as glx_ 02:20:13 *** toet [~Reefer@3E339CE5.dslaccess.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:28 *** jthill [~jthill@pool-71-109-75-231.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 02:36:03 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N885P001.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:04 *** glx_ is now known as glx 02:56:18 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0342.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:32 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0342.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 02:58:57 <Smoovious> shodan... well, I can read the music, but it doesn't ring a bell, sorry 03:05:08 *** Osai^zZz [~Osai@pD9EB5F6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai^zZz] 03:20:04 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-15-219.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:20:09 <TheJosh> hey all 03:20:32 <MDGrein> anyone awake? 03:20:59 <TheJosh> hey i had a few ideas for patches. can u give me thoughts so I can deside if I should code em or not? 03:22:23 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-144-116.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 03:23:04 <TheJosh> one patch would be an improved way to upgrade tracks, where you specify the old track -> new track, and the old trains -> new trains. Then you send all to depo, you click the button, it upgrades all the lines and changes the trains 03:23:16 <TheJosh> fairly complex patch though; tricky 03:24:19 <TheJosh> another idea was a simple programming interface available to scenario editors, a system of triggers. each trigger would have one or more conditions, which would all have to match, and if they did then one or more specified actions would be executed 03:24:46 <MDGrein> like the starcraft/warcraft 3 triggers 03:24:47 <TheJosh> simple scripting system, allowing end conditions in scenarios, as well as other clever stuff 03:25:07 <TheJosh> my ideas are based on the starcraft triggers because they are much simpler 03:25:12 <MDGrein> yeah 03:25:15 <MDGrein> prefer them aswell 03:25:40 <TheJosh> the full on scripting in war3 is cool, lots of power but too confusing 03:26:07 <TheJosh> whats your thoughts? 03:26:18 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-62-167.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:26:18 <MDGrein> would be a nice contrubution 03:26:41 <MDGrein> would make the scenarios more "alive" 03:27:06 <TheJosh> if done well 03:27:12 <MDGrein> yeah... 03:29:37 <TheJosh> i was going to have the conditions be things like money, points. with greater than, less than, etc. 03:29:52 <TheJosh> number trains/road/aircraft/ships/total 03:30:40 <TheJosh> and then have the actions as all the the DoCommand2 actions 03:33:42 <TheJosh> thanks for your input 03:44:09 *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:50 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7F13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:06:30 *** Ruud [~Ruud@ip82-139-87-126.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:09:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 04:16:34 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-15-219.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 04:17:23 *** AntB [~AntB-UK@host81-141-195-80.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: have you seen the time?!] 04:19:03 *** Netsplit cation.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: egladil 04:23:47 *** Netsplit over, joins: egladil 04:30:26 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7F13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 04:48:32 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:50:13 *** divoafx [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 04:53:31 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-144-116.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 05:43:25 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 05:50:10 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-163-29.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 06:58:27 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-15-219.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:58:34 <TheJosh> hey 07:00:43 <TheJosh> whats peoples thoughts on a patch that would allow a trigger system to be set up for a scenario, so that actions can be fired when events happen? kinda like starcraft 07:01:27 <TheJosh> 1 ore more conditions which all have to be met, and one or more actions (probably DoCommands) which happen one after another 07:05:18 <TheJosh> ung, no one is even here are they 07:05:20 *** TheJosh [~josh@d58-105-15-219.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 07:17:00 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #openttd 07:31:15 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:14 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:33:54 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489C4A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:54:08 *** Alltaken [~chatzilla@121-72-235-8.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]] 08:57:30 *** toet [~Reefer@3E339CE5.dslaccess.aol.com] has joined #openttd 09:00:23 *** BiA|pavel-css [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 09:00:27 <BiA|pavel-css> hi 09:29:22 *** G_ [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 09:31:07 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:11 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-144-116.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 09:58:03 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489C4A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:39 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:15 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:27 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 10:38:33 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 10:42:10 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 10:46:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@87.8.236.42] has joined #openttd 10:48:00 <Wolf01> hello 10:48:35 <BiA|pavel-css> hi 10:49:39 <BiA|pavel-css> servers 10:49:49 <BiA|pavel-css> !servers 10:49:58 <BiA|pavel-css> !nightly 10:50:07 <BiA|pavel-css> !wiki 10:50:22 <BiA|pavel-css> does anythink work over here? ^^ 10:50:26 <BiA|pavel-css> !password 10:51:59 <hylje> no 10:52:00 <hylje> :P 10:54:16 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0342.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:57 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti0140a340-0342.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 11:12:31 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3178P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:13:23 *** fjb [~frank@p5485CB85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21:55 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:21:55 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:06 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 11:24:20 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:27:55 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:01 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:32:17 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-2.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 11:36:02 *** G_ is now known as G 11:40:40 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:34 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 11:47:07 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c2b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:47:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 11:53:03 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 12:02:05 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:09 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-30.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 12:04:22 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 12:04:49 <SmatZ> hello 12:06:20 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 12:06:50 <Bjarni> hello SmatZ 12:07:33 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:11 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:13:57 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:57 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 12:14:36 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:14:47 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EB87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:58 <fjb> Moin 12:16:07 <BiA|pavel-css> hi SmatZ :) 12:24:42 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3178P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:56 *** Ploes [~Ploes@cpc4-rdng9-0-0-cust390.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:27:13 <Ploes> morning all 12:27:22 <Ploes> any mods on the TT-Forms site about? 12:30:39 <Ploes> well NR12 is posting randomly rude stuff again and there are no mods about! Please let them know if one turns up 12:30:43 *** Ploes [~Ploes@cpc4-rdng9-0-0-cust390.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 12:30:58 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:32:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-154-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:34:46 *** DaleStan__ [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:09 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:15 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 12:37:22 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:41:54 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56B67.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 12:42:02 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:47 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:04:44 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:06:40 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:38 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:13:12 *** divoafx [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:19:58 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:09 *** Smoovious [~imp486@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:58 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:43:21 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 13:56:16 *** michi_cc [72f6f8a91d@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Quit: michi_cc] 14:00:44 *** Greyscale [Greyscale@host81-158-73-177.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:34 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 14:11:11 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:23:33 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 14:23:51 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB7BD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:23 *** Greyscale [Greyscale@host81-158-73-177.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:29 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host81-158-73-177.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:29:24 <Bjarni> http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/33656/f784b789/moraalridders_bij_de_dd.html <--- wtf... Donald Duck as a music pirate (in Dutch)... apparently they just printed this in NL 14:30:42 <Bjarni> back when I read Donald Duck magazines they went treasure hunting and had a fight with the guy next door and stuff like that 14:31:04 <fjb> Music pirats are the badest criminals on earth. Didn't you know? 14:31:19 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:32:05 <Sacro> morning 14:32:07 <Bjarni> I didn't know that it was Scrooge McDuck who were behind the music industry 14:32:20 <Bjarni> but it sure sounds like him to sue people for every penny they got 14:32:22 <fjb> Moin Sacro 14:32:45 <fjb> :-) 14:33:05 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:33:23 <Bjarni> well... Donald Duck was used as war propaganda during WW2 14:33:41 <Bjarni> I wonder if somebody is using him again 14:34:04 <Bjarni> did you guys read the story? 14:34:09 <fjb> The music industry makes a lot of propaganda. 14:34:19 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 14:34:30 <Bjarni> Let ook op de woorden in captial: \"GEDOWNLOAD\", \"RECHTEN\" 14:36:23 *** michi_cc [3d1707e629@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 14:36:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 14:36:29 *** Grey [~Greyscale@host81-158-73-177.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:28 * Bjarni wonders why nobody said anything about the story being in Dutch 14:39:39 <Bjarni> since nobody complained then I presume that everybody can read it 14:40:07 <Tefad> popeye too 14:40:19 <Tefad> and good ol' bugs 14:40:48 <Bjarni> yeah... USA used everything in their propaganda 14:41:08 <Bjarni> "The spirit of '42" (or was it '43) 14:41:16 <Bjarni> buy war bonds 14:42:06 <Bjarni> every single dollar spent on (pleasure, but they used a different word) is a dollar spent on the Axis 14:42:35 <Bjarni> the door to the bar turned into a swastika and stuff like that 14:42:43 <fjb> Bjarni: That story is not hard to understand, even in Dutch. 14:42:57 <Bjarni> fjb: agreed :) 14:43:30 <Bjarni> Dutch isn't that hard to understand when reading it. It's somewhat more tricky to understand their speech 14:43:48 <fjb> Where is my red marker? Bjarni is agreeing with me. 14:44:39 <Bjarni> Dutch is kind of like a mix of Danish, German and English. Knowing all 3 of them makes it possible to read even though I never tried to learn Dutch 14:44:47 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:59 <Bjarni> fjb: red? RED? 14:45:05 <Bjarni> red is the colour of a mistake 14:45:17 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 14:45:18 <Bjarni> and do you claim me to be mistaken? 14:45:31 <Sacro> yes 14:45:33 <Sacro> always 14:45:41 *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [wrong answer] 14:45:53 <Tefad> what's up with that one 14:46:22 <Bjarni> with the DD comic? 14:46:31 <Tefad> sacro. 14:46:35 <Bjarni> ahh 14:46:42 <Bjarni> that's a better question 14:46:46 <Bjarni> I wish I knew the answer 14:47:04 <Bjarni> then I would get the Nobel price in psychiatry 14:47:17 <Tefad> if there was one 14:47:20 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-39-241.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:47:22 <Sacro> oh well 14:47:24 <Bjarni> they would make it 14:47:24 * Sacro fail 14:47:29 <fjb> Bjarni: Knowing german and English is all you need to read Dutch. 14:47:31 <Tefad> appears so 14:48:05 <Bjarni> fjb: sometimes Danish words shows up 14:48:15 <Bjarni> but yes I guess you can do without it 14:48:38 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-102-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:50:50 <LeviathNL> http://sandervdm.blogspot.com/2007/06/spirit-of-43-old-mcdonald-had-some.html 14:51:47 <Bjarni> I like how they consider the song texts to be worth â¬20 14:52:32 <Bjarni> so it was '43 :) 14:52:57 <Bjarni> I don't know if it's downright banned but they never showed it here 14:54:04 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-153-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:18 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 14:55:03 <Sacro> Bjarni: wtf did you use before 20? 14:55:25 <Sacro> i got a with caret ,¬ 14:55:41 <Bjarni> ohh... "Der Fuehrer's Face". That one is not that close to reality either 14:55:44 <Bjarni> Sacro: ⬠14:55:52 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@86.160.170.113] has joined #openttd 14:55:58 <Sacro> Bjarni: what name doth it go by? 14:56:05 * Bjarni slaps Sacro with an UTF-8 encoding 14:56:16 <Bjarni> Sacro: Euro 14:57:02 <Sacro> ooh 14:57:03 <Sacro> fix'd 14:57:10 <Bjarni> test ⬠14:57:27 <fjb> Bjarni: Give me some more ?. :-) 14:57:42 <Sacro> working under irrsi in putty 14:58:16 <Tefad> working under irssi in xterm here 14:58:43 <Sacro> send me another 14:59:19 <fjb> ? 14:59:35 <Sacro> no, thats a question mark 14:59:46 <Sacro> i hope 14:59:46 <fjb> That's an Omega. 14:59:58 <Sacro> really? 15:00:10 <Tefad> äœ çæ¯äº²æ¯äžäžªä»éŒ 15:00:14 <fjb> Yes. Ask Bjarni. 15:00:20 <Tefad> it's a question mark here too 15:00:28 <Sacro> Tefad: that's just squares 15:00:40 <Sacro> fjb: as you may not have noticed, i don't actually trust Bjarni 15:01:05 <fjb> Who trusts Bjarni, or better, who trusts you? 15:01:20 <Tefad> this is omega: Ω 15:01:44 <fjb> Yes, that is also an Omega. 15:01:54 <Tefad> what you typed was a question mark. 15:02:38 <Tefad> you've typed two odly placed question marks so far 15:02:47 <fjb> I typed an Omega. Some characters have more than one Unicode encoding. 15:02:58 <Sacro> ОМЎееЎ 15:03:04 <Tefad> cyrillic : ) 15:03:23 <Tefad> indeed? 15:03:27 <fjb> Yes, but sadly I never learned cyrillic. 15:03:46 <Tefad> neither did i 15:03:56 <Sacro> me neiether 15:03:59 <Tefad> i have picked up on a few of the letter sounds though 15:04:11 <Sacro> áŠá±á á¡á áŠá¯á áá ááeáŠáŠáŸ 15:04:41 <Tefad> all i get is the e : \ 15:05:35 <fjb> Hm, hard to describe what is is. Some curves, two triangles, an e and some other things. 15:05:56 <Sacro> fjb: what font? 15:05:58 <Tefad> fjb: i think your target encoding is wrong 15:06:24 <Tefad> if you're using mIRC i've had bad experiences with gettings its config proprly set 15:06:36 <Tefad> gettings? getting. 15:08:09 <fjb> Hm, that is just called Sans Serif. I will try to find out who did that font. 15:08:26 <Tefad> i use efont 15:11:53 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-30.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has joined #openttd 15:11:53 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@ip-62-143-77-30.1311A-CUD12K-02.ish.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:44 <Bjarni> back 15:13:43 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@86.160.170.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:51 <fjb> front 15:14:03 <Bjarni> <Tefad> äœ çæ¯äº²æ¯äžäžªä»éŒ <-- what are you trying to say? 15:14:14 <fjb> ?? 15:14:23 <Bjarni> ¿¿ 15:14:34 <Bjarni> mirror, mirror on the wall... 15:14:50 <fjb> Bjarni: two australian question marks. 15:15:08 <Bjarni> actually they are Spanish 15:15:17 <fjb> :-) 15:15:28 <Bjarni> hmm 15:15:34 <Bjarni> ¿ = gone fishing 15:15:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11605 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1482, FS#1523]: wrong count of Kirby trains when a ship was build. 15:16:04 <fjb> :-) 15:16:21 <fjb> Oh Rubidium found it. 15:18:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11606 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp stdafx.h): -Revert (r11584): since FS#1482 is solved, we do not need the extra checking and such anymore. 15:19:49 <BiA|pavel-css> what's FS#1482 or any number? :) 15:20:25 <Rubidium> technobabble 15:21:24 *** Greyscale [~Greyscale@86.160.170.113] has joined #openttd 15:21:26 <BiA|pavel-css> :) can i see somewhere what's hidden under it? 15:21:46 <Rubidium> yes 15:22:04 * glx points BiA|pavel-css to http://bugs.openttd.org 15:23:39 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:24:44 <LeviathNL> FS#1482 = FlySpray task-id 1482 15:24:59 <LeviathNL> = http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1482 15:25:13 *** DaleStan__ [~Dale@pool-71-98-105-192.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:25:26 <fjb> Rubidium: What was the problem with FS#1482, FS#1523? 15:27:51 <Bjarni> read the diff like the rest of us ;) 15:28:16 <fjb> :-P 15:30:16 <BiA|pavel-css> :) 15:31:45 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A40CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:54 <skidd13> Hi 15:33:41 <BiA|pavel-css> hi 15:33:45 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3178P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 15:56:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B809C0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:58:25 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B820ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:58:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:09:54 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:22 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EA48.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:54:34 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:56:33 *** LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 17:05:06 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:07:34 *** divoafx [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:07 *** divoafx [~asd@87.52.36.224] has joined #openttd 17:08:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11607 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: 17:08:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Enumify the industry widgets 17:08:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Enable doubleclick in the found new industries window to build an industries 17:18:05 *** divoafx [~asd@87.52.36.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:34 *** divoafx [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 17:23:09 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A40CD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt] 17:24:13 <BiA|pavel-css> hey glx yesterday when you left ..... http://pavelg.wz.cz/ottd/prob/09.png :) 17:30:14 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B04319A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:38:27 <LeviathNL> Wolf01, any progress on brickland? 17:41:50 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-36-62.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:43:33 *** prakti [~prakti@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Quitting .... Hackedi...hackedi...weg.] 17:48:09 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:14:17 <Rubidium> DaleStan, about random action 2: under what circumstances should these actions be called for industry (tiles)? From the documentation I understand that you always call the action for all industry tiles and the industry like you do for any callback, but it seems like that does not work as intended. 18:15:57 <DaleStan> Rubidium: What do you mean by "called"? 18:17:06 <Rubidium> that when the game 'triggers' one of the events described in the NewGRF spec you 'call' the action2 "stack" 18:19:57 <Rubidium> for example: when I get the '256' tick trigger, what of the NewGRF do I have to 'call' (interpret). Only the action 2s for the industry's tiles or also the action 2s for the industry itself? 18:21:11 <DaleStan> OK. When a trigger happens (for any feature), you process the action 2s for that item (and only that item). If/when a random 2 is hit that requests re-randomization based on that trigger, then the specified bits are randomized. 18:23:10 <Rubidium> ok, so the action 2s of the industry are never called in the realm of random action 2? (There is a 'definition' of the Industries as feature, but there are no triggers associated with it) 18:23:12 <DaleStan> So industries, with no triggers, would never have their action 2 stack queried for re-randomization, but it is (AIUI) possible/valid to put random 2s in there, with the bits randomized either on construction only, or when the industry's tiles have a type 83 random. 18:24:09 <DaleStan> (Since industry-tile-83-random queries/modifies the same bits as industry-80-random queries.) 18:25:10 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 18:26:18 <Rubidium> okay, that clears some things up. Thanks a lot 18:28:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11608 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_industries.cpp newgrf_industrytiles.cpp): -Fix: do not trigger industries, but only the industry's tiles. 18:29:08 *** |Bastiaan| [~kvirc@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has quit [] 18:32:05 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B04319A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BigBB] 18:36:10 *** G_ [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 18:37:57 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11609 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp industry_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#1524]: wrong error messages were shown when trying to build some industries in the scenario editor. 18:58:43 <Gonozal_VIII> did the forum just switch to arctic climate :S 19:10:56 <SpComb> yeah 19:11:04 <SpComb> just wait for easter, and they'll go into toyland mode 19:11:57 <BiA|pavel-css> :) 19:12:53 *** Gonozal_VIII_ [~Gonozal_V@N774P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 19:14:12 <Gonozal_VIII_> does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip? 19:14:29 <Gonozal_VIII_> that sucks... 19:14:45 <fjb> My isp does so every 24 hours. 19:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> 8h is insane... 19:16:00 <BiA|pavel-css> my server sux, my pc sux, i sux :( 19:16:29 <Gonozal_VIII_> no 19:17:00 <BiA|pavel-css> today, its correctly recieveing and sending packets, but ... ms dont see me even when server comunicate with it :/ 19:17:39 <BiA|pavel-css> Gonozal_VIII_: no? pc doesnt sux? :) 19:18:00 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII_> does any other isp except mine reconnect you every 8h with a different ip? <-- I don't have to reconnect at all 19:18:03 <Gonozal_VIII_> no i wanted to type "you suck" instead of "you sux" ^^ 19:18:35 <BiA|pavel-css> Bjarni: same here :) 19:18:48 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3178P029.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:35 <Bjarni> there is even a fair chance that I will get the same IP when I reconnect after turning off the computer (depending on how long it's turned off) 19:19:40 <Gonozal_VIII_> my other connection doesn't reconnect either... it's over cable tv 19:26:28 *** Gonozal_VIII_ is now known as Gonozal_VIII 19:28:43 <Sacro> Gonozal_VIII: you never seen the winter theme? 19:29:26 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know, i forget most things fast^^ 19:30:11 <BiA|pavel-css> :D 19:32:12 <Bjarni> you better remember what winter feels like (the bad parts of it) because according to Al Gore we will fry and drown and never see a winter again 19:32:41 <Gonozal_VIII> yay never again winter :D 19:33:14 <BiA|pavel-css> sounds good .) 19:43:38 *** lugo [~lugo@p4FD5ED44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:50:10 *** llugo [~lugo@p4FD5E288.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:23 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489C4A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:12:51 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:14:02 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 20:18:30 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EA48.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 20:20:51 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:21:01 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:03 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11610 /trunk/src/stdafx.h: -Cleanup (r8572): remove orphan comment 20:21:42 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 20:27:56 <Gonozal_VIII> poor comment 20:28:50 <glx> it survived for more than 3000 revs 20:29:02 <glx> that's not bad :) 20:30:03 <Gonozal_VIII> but.. but.. you killed an orphan! 20:34:31 <Bjarni> so? 20:34:42 <Bjarni> survival of the fittest 20:34:46 <Bjarni> it didn't fit in 20:34:57 <Bjarni> it's pure Darwinism 20:35:56 <hylje> code darwinism 20:36:21 <Gonozal_VIII> but it survived for 3000 revs without its parent function 20:36:26 <Gonozal_VIII> it was a very strong comment 20:36:39 <Bjarni> not strong enough 20:36:42 <Gonozal_VIII> you should have written some foster code for it 20:36:44 <glx> its parent was an include :) 20:37:22 <Bjarni> why was the code removed and not the comment? 20:40:25 <BiA|pavel-css> lazy people? :) 20:42:55 <Gonozal_VIII> src/orphanage.h 20:44:06 <Rubidium> I prefer giving all orphan /dev/null as parent 20:45:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@87.8.236.42] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:45:58 <Bjarni> bury him? 20:46:06 <Bjarni> we are too lazy to do that 20:53:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i577B596C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:55:21 <BiA|pavel-css> gn 20:55:33 <Gonozal_VIII> night 20:55:37 *** BiA|pavel-css [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [] 20:59:03 *** spaceinvader [~server@host86-145-11-42.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:09 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i59F7C5C0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:57 <fjb> Is there a way to destroy a bridge that is owned by a town? Towns tend to build lots of stupid bridges. 21:06:03 <glx> magic bulldozer should do it 21:06:14 <fjb> ... without cheating? 21:06:43 <glx> remove more town owned maybe 21:07:45 <fjb> How do you mean that? 21:08:03 <Gonozal_VIII> configure patches 21:09:22 <Gonozal_VIII> 3rd option in construction tab 21:09:27 <fjb> Ah, I found it. Great. thank you. 21:10:31 <fjb> How about better bridges for towns? :-) 21:10:55 <Gonozal_VIII> better bridges? you mean less? 21:11:11 <Gonozal_VIII> some minimum distance between them would be good... 21:16:26 <fjb> Yes, like the better road layouts. 21:21:03 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A66B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r11611 /trunk/src/ (blitter/factory.hpp driver.h stdafx.h win32.cpp): -Codechange: it is now possible to use a define to enable asserts and show them in crash.log for MSVC release builds 21:22:00 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:23:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11612 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Change: update some documentation. 21:24:14 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 21:37:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11613 /tags/0.6.0-beta2/ (11 files in 3 dirs): 21:37:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Release: 0.6.0-beta2. 21:37:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The second beta with quite a lot of bugfixes since beta1 and a few smaller features. 21:39:19 <Sacro> Rubidium: wooyay 21:42:16 *** eJoJ [~ejoj@106.84-48-125.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:43 <fjb> Great. 21:43:16 *** eJoJ [~ejoj@106.84-48-125.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:19 *** G [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 21:48:04 *** G_ [~njones@202-154-150-91.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:54 <Bjarni> "and there was much rejoice" 21:52:04 <Bjarni> it's not done yet :P 21:52:28 <Bjarni> it takes a while to compile, upload and shit 21:52:35 <Rubidium> especially upload 21:52:55 <ln-> Bjarni: have you ever been shooting with a machine gun? 21:53:27 <Bjarni> actually yes 21:53:31 <Smoovious> maybe too much fiber 21:53:42 <Bjarni> but what kind of random question is that??? 21:54:06 <ln-> an example of true randomness 21:54:16 <Bjarni> why did you ask? :) 21:55:14 <ln-> Bjarni: i've finished watching TNG, no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else. 21:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> there's still DS9 and Voyager ;) 21:57:17 <ln-> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, i'm expecting two DS9 boxes to arrive next week, beware. :) 22:00:22 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067056.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:26 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:18 <Bjarni> speaking of firearms. I know a guy. During his military service they had to learn how to use pistols and the very first time he fired 3 shots. Then the target moved towards them (like they do on a shooting range to see how well you did) and at a distance the instructor saw only one hole so he said "you only hit once but at least it was a bull's eye". When it arrived they noticed that the hole was 3 holes on top of each other 22:14:25 <Bjarni> this guy could never repeat this though 22:14:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r11614 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: The about dialog scrolling was connected to the mouse instead of the internal ticks 22:15:11 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 22:16:04 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: [...] no more random trek quotes to paste. had to come up with something else. <-- that sounds sad 22:16:19 <michi_cc> Rubidium: 59eb68042c8b6279df65f96337cdb33f http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/openttd-0.6.0-beta2-win64.zip (and sf.net/incoming as well) 22:17:05 <Rubidium> it's already done uploading? 22:18:16 <Bjarni> did michi_cc beat the rest of us to upload to SF? 22:18:23 <Bjarni> no wonder we didn't get any bandwidth 22:18:31 <michi_cc> yeah 22:18:47 <Rubidium> two binaries? 22:19:07 <Rubidium> what's different in the debug version? 22:19:21 <Bjarni> ln-: http://youtube.com/watch?v=d1chtJQFQNs <--- Star Trek seen with some new eyes... part 2 is the video response 22:19:22 <michi_cc> oops, that -dbg wasn't meant for sf.net, only my site. sorry 22:20:29 <Bjarni> ln-: they even missed one mistake. In Voyager they can't turn at warp speed (claiming it to be physically impossible) yet in the very first TNG episode Enterprise turns at warp speed 22:20:31 <michi_cc> it's the .pdb files from visual studio, I keep them in case it helps with some bug 22:20:52 <Rubidium> anyhow, vaporised from sf 22:23:34 <ln-> Bjarni: they should have some 24th century physicists as consultants. 22:27:54 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489C4A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:32 <Bjarni> ln-: yeah... but when they time travel they aren't allowed to interfere with history. Altering a TV show with so many viewers seems like changing history 22:38:49 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A66B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. - Eleanor Roosevelt] 22:46:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-154-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:19 <glx> @op 22:51:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek 22:51:42 *** glx changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory | use English | And please, no YouTube links 22:51:47 <glx> @deop 22:51:47 *** mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek 22:52:26 *** macias [macias@staticline41340.toya.net.pl] has joined #openttd 22:55:14 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-36-62.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 22:56:20 <macias> hi all, 22:58:31 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c211-28-160-2.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:01:38 <macias> please tell me what status do NoAI and cpp_gui branches have. 23:02:16 <glx> on hold 23:02:46 <macias> resources are put to stabilizing release version? 23:03:21 <glx> cpp_gui will probably need a full restart 23:03:26 <macias> I see 23:03:57 <macias> but is there anybody who wants to do it? 23:04:02 <glx> and NoAI is updated when AI writers submit or request stuff 23:05:08 <glx> anyway cpp_gui will wait until 0.6.0 branching 23:05:32 <glx> (and maybe more ;) ) 23:05:57 <macias> so the attidue towards turning it alive is mixed? 23:06:03 <macias> :D 23:07:01 <Rubidium> both take an enormous amount of effort with little to no gain for the end user 23:07:28 <Digitalfox> what about branch "map", why not delete it? Or is there still any interest on code that is in it? 23:07:41 <Rubidium> why delete it? 23:07:54 <Rubidium> deleting it only makes the svn repository larger 23:08:36 <Digitalfox> really? Didn't know that, i thought it was the other way :\ 23:08:58 <macias> history for deleted objects is kept anyway 23:09:11 <Rubidium> it's version control so it always remains in the repository 23:09:35 <Digitalfox> So everytime a branch is deleted, it increases svn repository size? 23:09:42 <Rubidium> yes 23:09:44 <Brianetta> Every change does 23:09:57 <Brianetta> Bear in mind that everything is un-doable, and you'll see why 23:10:00 <glx> a delete is a HUGE diff 23:10:05 <Digitalfox> didn't know that .. :\ 23:10:37 <Digitalfox> Never will i say again the delete word for a branch :) 23:11:30 <Digitalfox> By the way, what's the size of svn repository right now with all the files and history ? 23:11:35 <glx> Digitalfox: you can try :) remove src dir and check svn diff 23:12:05 <Digitalfox> will try glx :) 23:12:31 *** macias [macias@staticline41340.toya.net.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:12:49 <Rubidium> 520 MB 23:13:23 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:23 <Digitalfox> Rubidium: oh i thought it was bigger with all that history stuff, thanks for sharing the size Rubidium :) 23:14:58 <Rubidium> it can be much smaller with some other versioning systems 23:15:39 <glx> but other versioning systems don't have human readable "revision" 23:17:43 <Smoovious> is that 520Mb (un)compressed? 23:21:30 <Bjarni> HDs are cheap today 23:21:30 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:36 <Bjarni> so is bandwidth 23:21:38 <Bjarni> don't complain 23:25:48 <Rubidium> as long as you don't do a checkout of the whole repository everything should be fine 23:25:56 *** jthill [~jthill@pool-71-109-75-231.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #openttd [] 23:26:20 <Rubidium> tss... still no beta2 servers 23:27:06 <glx> lol 23:27:12 <SmatZ> :) 23:28:11 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 23:28:54 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:38 <Bjarni> and no replies to the beta2 post on the forum 23:30:12 <Smoovious> and its been well over a half-hour already! 23:30:36 <Bjarni> people are so slow 23:30:44 <Rubidium> actually 113 minutes 23:30:47 <SmatZ> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35215 I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-) 23:30:51 <SmatZ> *think 23:31:04 <Smoovious> 113 is well over a half-hour :P 23:31:17 <SmatZ> blegh such an ugly typo 23:32:31 <SmatZ> actually it is 113/60 of an hour 23:32:41 <SmatZ> roughly 2 hoursy 23:32:50 <Bjarni> SmatZ: are you drunk? 23:32:59 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you] 23:33:23 <Smoovious> 2 hours is still well over a half-hour :D 23:33:28 <Bjarni> wtf is that about bells... it's part of the game... then why remove them? 23:33:37 <Smoovious> ?! 23:33:43 <Smoovious> what's wrong with the bells? 23:33:46 <SmatZ> Bjarni: no 23:33:51 <SmatZ> I just type really bad 23:33:52 <Bjarni> SmatZ: maybe you should be 23:34:00 <SmatZ> why? 23:34:04 <Bjarni> Smoovious: <SmatZ> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35215 I wouldn't thing this can be a problem for people 8-) 23:34:19 * Smoovious nods. 23:34:26 <SmatZ> [00:30:54] <SmatZ> *think 23:34:29 <SmatZ> [00:31:20] <SmatZ> blegh such an ugly typo 23:34:45 <Bjarni> SmatZ: looking at how you spell when you are sober makes me wonder if you got some sort of reversed spelling thing when it comes to being drunk 23:35:05 <SmatZ> I am typing rather automatically... that's the reason why I type "train" instead of "tram" at many places 23:35:12 <SmatZ> :) 23:35:18 <Bjarni> like when you code? 23:36:06 <SmatZ> Bjarni: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1495 http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1485 23:36:09 <Bjarni> generally I wouldn't consider crossing bells to be an issue 23:36:14 <Bjarni> not even in real life 23:36:34 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has joined #openttd 23:37:05 <Bjarni> so far I have only noticed one house that I say would be really annoyed by noise. It's like 3 meters from a sign that tells the train to use the horn due to the crossing up ahead 23:37:57 <Smoovious> hahaha 23:38:02 <Smoovious> that's gotta suck 23:38:33 <Smoovious> like, 'why couldn't I have moved near the airport' 23:38:51 <Bjarni> it's only for trains in one direction 23:38:56 <Bjarni> and usually once every hour 23:39:11 <Bjarni> and the horns aren't that powerful. This isn't America 23:39:11 <Smoovious> just enough time to get to sleep then 23:39:45 <Smoovious> oh ok... so you can't hear em 5 miles away 23:40:10 <Bjarni> but when I noticed I was like... "ok, that's a really bad placement but the sign is older than the house" 23:40:46 <Bjarni> why did they build the house there??? I mean it's not like it's in a big city... it looks more like a forest 23:41:14 <Smoovious> maybe the lot price was cheap 23:41:30 <Bjarni> actually I don't think they cared much 23:42:20 <Bjarni> it wasn't until fairly recently that people started to complain about noise and now they complain about everything 23:43:24 <Bjarni> however I agree with this one "the new trains are way more noisy than the old ones and they are it in a much higher pitch so it's way more annoying" 23:43:45 <Bjarni> so they wake up everybody at 5 A.M. 23:43:52 <Bjarni> the old ones didn't do that 23:45:04 <Smoovious> commuter type trains? 23:45:08 <Bjarni> yes 23:45:14 <Bjarni> they purchased some sort of DMU 23:45:19 <Smoovious> ahh 23:45:34 <Bjarni> no catenary so it had to be diesel 23:45:57 <Bjarni> but the brakes whine when they stop :( 23:46:12 * Smoovious nods. 23:46:20 <Bjarni> and they are way too noisy when they start up and heats up in the morning 23:46:32 <Smoovious> oh man... 23:46:36 <Bjarni> now the solution to the last one is to start them up in the countryside... or something 23:46:44 <Smoovious> my ttruck hates starting up cold 23:46:58 <Bjarni> I wonder why they don't preheat 23:47:20 <Smoovious> noisy as hell you think the truck is falling apart, and the stacks put out so much smoke while it is warming up, I white-out the whole lot if I'm up-wind 23:47:39 <Bjarni> sounds healthy :P 23:47:49 <Bjarni> both for you and your car 23:48:02 <Smoovious> oh yeah... got out of the truck to see if it was on fire... as did a bunch of other truckers too... 23:48:29 <Bjarni> why don't you have a preheater? 23:48:29 <Smoovious> (it is old, due to be retired) 23:48:32 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56B67.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:48:36 <Bjarni> ahh 23:48:45 <Smoovious> cuz the company who owns the truck is too cheap... 23:49:12 <Bjarni> it's an expensive place to save money 23:49:19 <Smoovious> the electrical system couldn't handle it anyways... even doing 70 down the freeway, I sometimes can't generaate enough power to use my map lights... 23:49:31 <Bjarni> the preheater uses less diesel than a cold start and the engine lasts longer if it's not allowed to start cold 23:49:58 <Smoovious> yeah, but the generator (APU) costs ,000 23:50:14 <Smoovious> they'll only put them on the trucks for their million-mile drivers 23:50:45 <Bjarni> we have preheaters on a locomotive that 23:50:49 <Bjarni> bahh 23:50:55 <Bjarni> ' and enter next to each other 23:51:07 <Bjarni> we have preheaters on a locomotive that's way cheaper than ,000 23:51:16 <Osai> Rubidium: are you still awake? 23:51:43 <Smoovious> if I owned the truck, I could get one put on for about ,000, all charges included 23:51:49 <Bjarni> it's made out of an oil burner that burns diesel. A pump pumps the cooling water though it 23:51:52 <Bjarni> and that's it 23:52:05 <Smoovious> but the company, would go through the dealership the trucks came from, by contract 23:52:14 <Bjarni> it can get the engine from cold to operational temperature on battery power only 23:52:33 <Smoovious> yeah, my batteries would die out too quick for that 23:52:49 *** Dark_Link^ [~glidegame@fw.dormnet.his.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:56 <Smoovious> its a piece of crap truck ... but being entry-level, I expected that 23:53:06 <Bjarni> and here is the good part: it has a battery of it's own so the start engine gets power from a different set of batteries so you are sure not to kill your batteries before starting 23:53:55 <Bjarni> <Smoovious> its a piece of crap truck <-- does that include the brakes as well? 23:54:43 <Gonozal_VIII> you'll arrive much faster without brakes 23:54:58 <Bjarni> or not at all 23:55:39 <Smoovious> Bjarni... well... the brakes aren't as bad... they at least get regular attention, even if I have to adjust the slack adjusters myself... but they could be better too 23:56:19 <Bjarni> do you make a daily inspection of bolts and brakes and stuff? 23:56:24 <Bjarni> or is that a train only thing? 23:57:00 * Sacro starts his Open Source Train Sim 23:57:23 *** LeviathNL [~thomas@z037133.its-s.tudelft.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:45 <Bjarni> Sacro: like I said on the forum: it's not a simulation ;) 23:57:59 <Sacro> Bjarni: no, this isn't OpenTTD 23:58:10 <Bjarni> oh 23:58:11 <Sacro> this is a project i'm starting 23:58:11 <Smoovious> well, you're supposed to do a full inspection at the beginning and end of each day of driving... 23:58:12 <fjb> Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead? 23:58:14 <Bjarni> then what is it? 23:58:23 <Sacro> Open Source train Sim 23:58:29 <Sacro> with hopefully signalling sim too 23:58:34 <Smoovious> but some stuff I only check once a week, or during a fuel stop 23:58:42 <Bjarni> <fjb> Hm, how far does the train pathfinder look ahead? <-- check openttd.cfg 23:58:56 <Bjarni> I think you can adjust it yourself if you like 23:59:10 <Smoovious> the brakes, cargo securement, lights, etc, etc, I check each trip, and every 150 miles or 3 hours, whichever comes first 23:59:55 <Bjarni> what kind of cargo do you have?