Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:39 <pv2b> why do people smuggle cigarattes? is there really such a big price diff between countries? 00:01:10 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, two to three times more expensive here 00:01:47 <pv2b> is it really smuggling though? the EU. free trade etc. as long as you don't bring more than for "personal use"... *<:-) 00:02:07 <pv2b> the bringing it over the part prolly isn't too hard 00:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is no "free trade" 00:02:11 <pv2b> the selling it though. 00:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is only "free travel" 00:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are precise rules how much you can bring over the border 00:02:41 <Gonozal_VIII> most of the time the smugglers don't sell it do just anybody 00:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> without paying customs fee 00:03:04 <Gonozal_VIII> like czech people that work here and bring in cigarettes for their colleges 00:03:32 <Gonozal_VIII> co-workers... 00:03:34 <Gonozal_VIII> stuff 00:03:35 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 00:04:06 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't run around in the streets with cigarettes under their coat or something... 00:07:25 <Gonozal_VIII> there are no border controls so it's easy for them to fill the trunk with cigarettes and make some easy money 00:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the customs do stop people and make sporadic controls near the border 00:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. near the dutch border, where they stop cars of the "target group" who is likely to smuggle drugs 00:09:49 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not that easy to find a target group for cigarettes, they are normal workers most of the time 00:09:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> they can even collect import taxes on the fuel you got behind the border 00:10:21 <Gonozal_VIII> thousands of workers drive in every day 00:10:24 <pv2b> i've driven through europe a few times (belgium-holland-germany-denmark-sweden) 00:10:29 <pv2b> i don't think i've ever been stopped 00:12:16 <pv2b> at lest two interesting border crossings there 00:12:29 <pv2b> denmark-sweden -- alcohol smuggling possible, and holland-germany 00:13:51 <glx> spain-france is a nice one too 00:14:13 <pv2b> why? 00:14:41 <Gonozal_VIII> everything is very expensive in france 00:16:35 <Gonozal_VIII> i guess the differences will eventually fade away but not in the near future 00:17:33 <glx> if the difference is reduced it won't be in the right way 00:18:08 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the former poor countries will be richer then because lots of companies moved there... 00:26:21 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: you have a knack for killing conversations 00:26:33 <Gonozal_VIII> :-( 00:29:18 *** pieb0 [~chatzilla@host52-211-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:53 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-121-6.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:54:25 <strstrep> Is there a way to force a client to connect to a server with a version mismatch? 00:54:37 <Gonozal_VIII> bad idea? 00:54:45 <strstrep> I'm testing something 00:54:56 <Gonozal_VIII> compile it with forced version... 00:54:58 <Gonozal_VIII> but bad idea 00:55:08 <strstrep> The actual code in the versions is the same. 00:55:14 <Belugas> really bad idea... 00:55:17 <strstrep> I have to do some voodoo for the cross-compile to work correctly. 00:56:34 <Belugas> if same code, why the givl are you doing it??? 00:56:38 <Belugas> anyway, i'm not here... 00:56:44 <strstrep> Essentially I want my r11704 client to connect to my r11704M server. 00:56:47 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 00:57:07 <Gonozal_VIII> if it's the same code, then it's not m 00:57:39 <strstrep> I changed some <> to "" in includes 00:57:40 <glx> then you can try to force server rev, but bad things may happen (mainly desyncs) 00:57:59 <glx> why did you do that? 00:58:26 <strstrep> zlib isn't cross-compiled for ARM in my distribution 00:58:28 <glx> <> is used for system includes, "" for custom includes 00:59:52 <SpComb> src/rev.cpp 00:59:59 <strstrep> Thanks 01:00:11 <glx> src/rev.cpp.in indeed 01:00:51 <glx> or ./configure --revision=rxxxx 01:00:52 <SpComb> vim -p src/rev.* 01:00:52 <strstrep> Actually, I should be able to change that back if I add -I. (more hackery) 01:01:31 <strstrep> glx: I'm trying to reproduce that industry prospecting bug by hosting the server on an ARM machine I have. 01:01:55 <glx> you can also use LDFLAGS=... ./configure 01:01:57 <strstrep> glx: Then try to poke around and see if I can fix the bug (maybe) 01:02:44 <glx> hmm CFLAGS is better for -I stuff :) 01:02:51 <strstrep> glx: Yes it is ;-) 01:07:05 <strstrep> I probably should create a full cross-compile environment for this, but I was just trying to do a quick-and-dirty job. 01:07:28 <strstrep> Has anyone tried running OpenTTD on arm-linux? 01:07:36 <strstrep> At least the dedicated server? 01:08:58 <Gonozal_VIII> i've never even heard of arm linux 01:09:11 <strstrep> ARM is the hardware platform, Linux is the OS. 01:09:18 <strstrep> ARM is found in a lot of embedded devices. 01:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> "25 (c) B User-defined bit mask to set when checking veh. var. 42" why is there no link to what variable 42 does? 01:11:05 <roboboy> gmorning 01:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> morning, right, it's 2AM 01:11:25 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody knows what 42 does 01:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> "42 D Cargo types transported by consist" 01:14:16 <glx> uu the result of ORing the bits of prop. 25 from all vehicles in the train 01:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i basically need a name for the variables ;) 01:15:38 <Gonozal_VIII> cargoTypes?^^ 01:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> do i read this correctly as in "Property 25 defines which cargo types are allowed to be attached"? 01:17:13 <glx> no 01:17:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> then what does this mean? 01:18:49 <glx> say you have a consist ABC, prop 25 is used in a|b|c 01:19:18 <strstrep> Yay, I can reproduce the desync 01:19:22 <glx> and this value is the high byte of callback 42 result 01:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't understand... 01:22:20 <glx> well if A prop 25 is 0x01, B prop 25 is 0x04, C prop 25 is 0x10, and you have A-B-C consist, cb 42 result is 0x15xxxxxx 01:24:21 <glx> and it's up to the grf coder to know what it means :) 01:24:36 <strstrep> glx: I think I fixed #1561 - desync when building primary industry. 01:24:57 <strstrep> glx: I can reliably get a desync without the patch, and with the patch, I can reliably not desync. 01:25:00 <glx> you extracted the random calls 01:25:05 <strstrep> glx: Yup 01:25:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, i think i understand now, but that does not give me a sensible name ;) 01:25:50 <glx> var42 bits 01:26:30 <glx> strstrep: and does it desync if you extract only one call? 01:26:43 <strstrep> I haven't tried that. 01:26:45 <strstrep> It shouldn't desync. 01:27:00 <strstrep> I can test it. 01:27:04 <glx> we tried and it desynced 01:28:29 <Gonozal_VIII> rule: don't do random calls inside function calls :-) 01:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i said that previously ;) 01:29:07 <SmatZ> rule #34 01:29:11 <glx> yes we need to check all random calls :) 01:29:37 <SmatZ> one call to Random() in function parameter shouldn't change anything 01:29:41 <SmatZ> why do you think so? 01:29:54 <SmatZ> I may be wrong of course :) 01:31:06 <strstrep> It's because C does not define an order in which to evaluate arguments to a function call. Either Random() call could be resolved first. By taking it out of the function call, the order is forced. 01:31:08 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B77B68.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:31:25 <SmatZ> strstrep: when there is just one Random() as glx described? 01:31:31 <SmatZ> in the function parameter 01:31:40 <SmatZ> when one of them is removed 01:31:44 <strstrep> Any function call that changes state and depends on that state in C is a bug. 01:31:50 <strstrep> I'm recompiling. 01:32:07 <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/desync_try.diff <-- this one desynced too 01:32:52 <strstrep> tile should be a new variable local to that bracket 01:32:59 <strstrep> Right? 01:33:21 <SmatZ> strstrep: except ugliness of code, no 01:33:30 <SmatZ> and future possible problems 01:33:36 <strstrep> Or is tile not needed to be preserved across that line? 01:33:59 <glx> tile is not used for prospection so it's ok to reuse it 01:34:34 <SmatZ> strstrep: it wouldn't cause desync anyway 01:34:39 <SmatZ> even if it was buggy 01:34:46 <strstrep> It *shouldn't*. 01:34:56 <glx> or the compiler does tricky stuff again :) 01:35:13 <SmatZ> that would be definitelly compiler bug 01:35:30 <strstrep> Marked as volatile maybe? 01:36:00 <glx> like the nice grf stack bug we had because MSVC overoptimised calls 01:36:05 <SmatZ> there are no computed pointers nor threads 01:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/TTDTrains.py <-- comments/errors/suggestions? 01:36:25 <SmatZ> glx: that wasn't compiler bug 01:36:43 <glx> yes it was our code indeed but still 01:36:46 <Gonozal_VIII> no idea what .py is 01:36:52 <strstrep> python 01:37:04 <SmatZ> glx: this is the same case - probably :) 01:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a text file 01:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause3> open in $editor 01:37:25 <strstrep> No desync in my case for a patch very similar to yours. 01:37:35 <strstrep> Only changes would be variable name changes to location, 01:37:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7712B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:37:47 <strstrep> And it's locally declared in the for loop as a TileIndex 01:38:07 <SmatZ> I agree that 'tile' shouldn't be used because it is not nice from code readability and possible future problems 01:38:14 <SmatZ> and a little comment would be useful too 01:38:46 <SmatZ> like "do not try to combine these two Random() into the function call, it has undefined behaviour" or so 01:39:05 <SmatZ> if this is really the problem 01:39:24 <SmatZ> and the moving of the Random() somewhere else just doesn't hide original problem 01:39:32 <strstrep> It really is *A* problem. My testing shows it to be the problem, but glx's testing suggests otherwise. 01:39:50 <SmatZ> because compiler won't do optimisation at that place that is actually wrong too 01:40:33 <SmatZ> strstrep: I agree this has to be fixed - no matter if it fixes FS#1561 01:42:09 <strstrep> Well, it fixes 1561 for me, but I can't say for certain that it is the only fix needed... I haven't tried all platforms. 01:42:19 <glx> Eddi|zuHause3: doesn't look bad 01:42:28 <Gonozal_VIII> eddi, so you replace the hex stuff with names? 01:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's the general idea of a higher level language, yes ;) 01:44:02 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-202-27.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:44:04 <Gonozal_VIII> not really a different language then, only aliases... 01:44:14 <Gonozal_VIII> i like it :-) 01:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's only part of the work ;) 01:45:23 <glx> strstrep: you could at least follow the style ;) 01:45:29 <Gonozal_VIII> could be enough with a nice client program with some dropdowns where you can select those... 01:45:34 <strstrep> oh, that's right 01:45:39 <strstrep> I should read up on that. 01:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> i am NOT going to program an IDE 01:46:08 <Gonozal_VIII> you don't have to 01:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> just forget that thought, talk to Wolf01 ;) 01:46:41 *** evert [~evert@83.101.25.163] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:46:55 <Gonozal_VIII> what happened with wolf01? 01:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause3> he went to bed? 01:47:17 <strstrep> I must be blind 01:47:23 <strstrep> I can't find the coding style file 01:47:38 <Gonozal_VIII> yes but... why should i talk to him? 01:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause3> he wants a klicki-bunti definition of grfs ;) 01:48:06 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 01:48:19 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe i could hack together something in java... 01:48:44 <SmatZ> strstrep: check wiki 01:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> it might be easier once i finish my work 01:49:04 <Gonozal_VIII> i know 01:49:37 <Gonozal_VIII> can't select some stupid hex values that don't say anything from a dropdown... 01:49:59 <strstrep> Spaces around equals? 01:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> wise use of spaces can improve readability 01:51:33 <Gonozal_VIII> i always places spaces around '=' 01:51:39 <Gonozal_VIII> -es 01:51:41 <Gonozal_VIII> +e 01:51:44 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 01:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's nice that python disallows assignments in if expressions, because writing "=" instead of "==" is the most common mistake i make 01:52:40 <Gonozal_VIII> i only did that at the beginning... 01:52:48 <Gonozal_VIII> java compiler complains about that 01:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> after decades of only programming in Pascal-like languages, i always make that mistake 01:53:54 <Gonozal_VIII> most common mistake for me is to forget the ; 01:54:35 <strstrep> Mmm Perl >:-) 01:55:42 <Gonozal_VIII> when i write something in java it hardly ever compiles on first try because of some missing ; 01:56:02 <Eddi|zuHause3> i rarely do that... except at the end of a block 01:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause3> pascal did not need ; before "end" 01:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause3> what i occasionally do is try to write ; in python, which does not need it 01:57:02 <Gonozal_VIII> or when i copy and paste stuff around i often copy too much 01:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> if (a) {b} else {c} <- and suddenly i forgot two ; 01:58:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i wouldn't write that in a single line... 01:58:59 <strstrep> New patch 01:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause3> doesn't matter 01:59:08 <strstrep> I added a comment, too 01:59:34 <Gonozal_VIII> i know it doesn't matter for the compiler but it matters for me 01:59:57 <Gonozal_VIII> i always make a newline after { 02:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> no, what i mean is "i just wrote it in one line here for compactness, i'd probably split it in a program" 02:00:20 <strstrep> Sorry about that. 02:00:21 <Gonozal_VIII> ah ok 02:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause3> the fact is, i often forget ; before } 02:01:19 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not so easy to forget that, if the } is in another line 02:01:37 <SmatZ> strstrep: no problem, I hope it will help (it should help at least with part of it)... 02:01:37 <SmatZ> night 02:01:40 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:41 <Eddi|zuHause3> unless you learned pascal first ;) 02:02:06 <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, the = == issue is much more common 02:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> i practically make that every time... 02:02:58 <Gonozal_VIII> well... at uni they told us so often about the = == issue that almost nobody made that mistake 02:03:35 <Gonozal_VIII> it was one of the first things they told us 02:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause3> sure, i know the issue 02:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> still i make it 02:04:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> it's one of the reasons why i hate C-style syntax 02:04:26 <Gonozal_VIII> then it's a good thing that it's not allowed and the compiler complains 02:05:03 <Gonozal_VIII> otherwise there would be a lot of strange bugs because of that 02:06:03 <pv2b> i dislike pascal syntax. so many words, so few symbols 02:11:41 <Gonozal_VIII> it's 3 am :O it was 1 am just a few moments ago... 02:16:18 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1C36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Windows shutdown) ((~_~]"] 02:20:12 *** RoKK [RoKK@dsl5402CCA6.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 02:24:58 *** Rockair [RoKK@dsl5402CCF3.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:29 <strstrep> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_41_-_50#gameid_43 02:26:37 <strstrep> sorry, wrong channel 02:27:40 <glx> hehe at least it wasn't the auto-kick command :) 02:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause3> does that actually work meanwhile? 02:30:23 <Gonozal_VIII> !password 02:30:24 *** Gonozal_VIII was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 02:30:24 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N743P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 02:30:32 <Gonozal_VIII> no 02:42:44 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 02:43:28 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:54 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 02:46:06 <strstrep> I take it you get that a lot. 02:50:15 <Gonozal_VIII> actually it only happened once afaik 02:57:41 <glx> once we had someone who typed it 3 or 4 times within 30 minutes 02:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause3> once a week you mean 02:58:27 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c2b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:58:55 <Gonozal_VIII> i didn't see any kicks because of that since the script is there (except on purpose) 02:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> grep "\!password" oftc.net* | wc -l 02:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause3> 48 02:59:47 <Gonozal_VIII> ? 03:00:36 <Gonozal_VIII> can that thing also count the kicks? 03:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> grep "\!password" oftc.net* -A1 | grep geworfen | wc -l 03:02:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> 6 03:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/TTDTrains.py <-- updated with Vehicle IDs 03:06:53 <Gonozal_VIII> :-) 03:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause3> now import these names into a definition table... 03:08:15 <Gonozal_VIII> interface where you select the names and it generates the hex... 03:08:19 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 03:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause3> a definition table has to reverse these lists 03:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause3> but that can be autogenerated easily 04:01:24 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F56AE8.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:07:03 *** Tino|Home [~Tino@i59F57053.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:14:55 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-25-109.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 04:26:09 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c220-239-139-18.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:27:53 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:47:55 <Gonozal_VIII> """ <-- that's some kind of multi line comment thing? 04:50:35 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm doesn't matter... 04:50:40 <Gonozal_VIII> <-- bed 04:52:14 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N743P024.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:02 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-116.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 04:59:17 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-25-109.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:31 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-116.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:03 *** HoTSteel [hotsteel@86.107.64.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:04:25 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c220-239-139-18.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:15:32 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c220-239-139-18.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:15:57 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c220-239-139-18.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:10 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09:23:47 <dihedral> hello :-) 09:37:22 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 09:39:07 <LA[lord]> hello dihedral 09:40:32 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:36 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:47:15 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:48:38 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:16 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:57:14 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 10:10:43 *** svippy [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:10:43 *** svip [~svip@cpe.atm2-0-78233.0x535a2072.boanxx18.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:15:50 *** 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[~ludde@ua-83-227-238-252.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:25:46 <ludde> hello 11:26:07 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:07 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 11:26:34 <dihedral> hello ludde 11:28:58 *** Farden [~jk3farden@213.186.38.50] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 11:30:37 <ludde> sup 11:31:42 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:54 <dihedral> not much 11:31:56 <dihedral> just saying hi 11:31:59 <dihedral> 'hi' :-P 11:32:38 *** wiese [~w_w@cm142-140.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 11:32:46 <wiese> hi 11:33:54 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:35:53 <nzvip> Hehe. 11:35:57 <nzvip> I laughed. 11:43:53 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd 11:44:46 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@213.186.38.50] has joined #openttd 11:48:52 *** wiese [~w_w@cm142-140.liwest.at] has left #openttd [] 11:51:28 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:07 *** Farden [~jk3farden@213.186.38.50] has joined #openttd 11:53:48 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:16 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 11:55:28 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@213.186.38.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:30 *** wiese [~w_w@cm142-140.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 12:06:51 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:07:28 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:07:48 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 12:08:17 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:21 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 12:11:25 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:11:55 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:10 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:12:16 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 12:14:39 <Belugas> hello ludde and dihedral 12:15:06 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 12:15:42 <dihedral> hello Belugas 12:15:45 <dihedral> how are you? 12:16:51 <SmatZ> hello 12:21:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:24:46 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:27:29 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 12:28:48 <Digitalfox_> Good morning everybody, or good afternoon or good night :) 12:37:34 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:43:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd 12:44:43 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:46 <wiese> hi, may i ask a question? i searched the wiki and wondered if it's possible to have different typs of settings (temperate, sub-tropical,..) on one map 12:48:34 <dihedral> yes you may ask a question 12:48:40 <dihedral> may i give you an answer? 12:49:25 <Digitalfox_> yes you may give an answer dihedral o_O 12:49:29 <wiese> yes please :) 12:50:45 <dihedral> it's not possible :-P 12:51:18 <wiese> damn 12:51:20 <dihedral> Digitalfox_: i was making fun of 'asking to ask a question' :-P 12:51:36 <Digitalfox_> i know and also was i ;) 12:51:46 <dihedral> though you might like the alpine grf wiese 12:53:50 <Digitalfox_> Why can't i change my nickname to Digitalfox without the _ ?? " === #openttd.notice You may not change nickname while banned or moderated on a channel (+b/+q/+m)" 12:54:39 <dihedral> haha 12:54:44 <dihedral> where are you from Digitalfox_ ? 12:54:46 <wiese> i like the temperate most :) but in order of making an europe map, it's very tricky to get the right sort of industrie (because the continent got several typs of settings) 12:54:49 <dihedral> if you dont mind me asking 12:55:02 <Digitalfox_> Portugal, why? 12:55:10 <dihedral> just curious 12:55:12 <ln-> Digitalfox_: there's the answer. 12:55:17 <Digitalfox_> And you? 12:55:21 <dihedral> germany 12:55:37 <Digitalfox_> ln, yeah, but it's damn boring to have to quit and enter the channel again 12:55:58 <Digitalfox_> Just because of ISP timeout 12:56:26 <Digitalfox_> Here our ISP renew our IP every 36H 12:56:27 <dihedral> use /rejoin? 12:56:30 <dihedral> or /reconnect 12:57:11 <Digitalfox_> yeah, i've done that dihedral :) 12:57:31 <dihedral> have you registered your nick with nickserv? 12:57:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B81384.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:57:50 <Digitalfox_> Also our biggest ISP has this crazy diffrence between nacional traffica and internacional traffic 12:57:56 <Digitalfox_> dihedral: no 12:58:12 <dihedral> talk to nickserv (/msg nickserv help) 12:58:32 <Digitalfox_> So bettwen nacional clientes i can make ilimited trafic. but for interncaional traffic i have 120GB of limit 12:58:46 <dihedral> ? 12:59:07 <ln-> c->t and i -> un 12:59:21 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8124D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:59:23 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:00:09 <dihedral> tlients ?? 13:00:30 <wiese> no national 13:00:43 <dihedral> i was pulling ln-'s leg 13:02:48 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-159-15.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 13:13:38 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:14:08 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 13:25:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11705 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1557]: trains could have sprites with wrong direction when reversing, also was inconsistent with save/load process (possible desyncs) 13:31:48 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@53560EE5.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:33:01 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:33:56 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:35:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r11706 /trunk/src/ (83 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: split vehicle.h and remove another bunch of useless includes. 13:38:57 <roboboy> gnight soon 13:42:58 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:57 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 13:46:36 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B788DF.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 13:47:12 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1BEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:51:58 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:02 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 13:54:48 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:20 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:06:01 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 14:06:22 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 14:08:13 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:08:58 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 14:11:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11707 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: do not allow refitting flooded (destroyed) vehicles 14:24:52 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 14:25:30 <dihedral> how on earth could destroyed vehicles be refitted? 14:26:30 <Belugas> thus the fix ;) 14:28:40 <dihedral> hehe - no 14:28:50 <dihedral> i mean 14:28:56 <dihedral> how was it possible before? 14:29:05 <dihedral> because if it was not possible, why a fix? 14:30:40 <Belugas> if SmatZ fixed it, it means that he has found a way to do so, and i trust him on finding/fixing strange bugs :) 14:31:33 <Vikthor> dihedral: You can have flooded vehicle in depot I believe 14:32:27 <SmatZ> yes, flooded vehicles in depot were reason for some fixes 14:32:31 <SmatZ> eg. they could be sold 14:32:35 <SmatZ> they could be moved 14:32:43 <dihedral> Belugas: i was not trying to say anything against that 14:32:44 <glx> and even if it was not possible using gui, internally it could be possible 14:32:53 <dihedral> just wanted to still my curiosity :-D 14:33:11 <dihedral> glx: yeah - ok :-P 14:34:11 <dihedral> but getting back to what SmatZ found 14:34:15 <dihedral> flooded vehicles in a depot 14:34:20 <Belugas> dihedral: to be honest, i'd rather not know :) 14:34:21 <dihedral> would the depot not be flooded also 14:34:28 <dihedral> Belugas: LOL 14:34:31 <SmatZ> dihedral: http://bugs.openttd.org/?getfile=1719 things like this were possible earlier too 14:34:41 <SmatZ> you could have some 'ghost' train of flooded wagons ;-) 14:35:08 <SmatZ> dihedral: just try it 14:35:10 <dihedral> hehehe 14:35:22 <dihedral> did it make extra money? :-P 14:35:35 <SmatZ> no :) 14:35:52 <SmatZ> it just caused asserts when multiheaded engine was missing its second part 14:35:59 <dihedral> :-P 14:36:50 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46c2b.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:36:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 14:38:42 * dihedral greets 'the' Bjarni 14:39:12 * qball hides from 'the' Bjarni 14:39:14 <Bjarni> greetings people 14:39:21 <dihedral> hello 14:39:29 * Bjarni catches qball 14:39:29 * dihedral points at qball 14:39:32 <Bjarni> now pay up 14:39:32 <dihedral> there he is 14:39:55 <dihedral> Bjarni beat me to it :-P 14:42:39 <qball> omg, bjarni catched me... 14:42:46 * qball puts on the armored underwear 14:43:08 <Bjarni> ... 14:43:20 <Bjarni> expecting to be put in jail? 14:43:36 <qball> you know what the judge said, Bjarni. you cannot mollest inocent people 14:43:55 <Bjarni> but I am the law 14:44:06 <Bjarni> however I have no interest in you 14:44:11 <qball> thx god 14:44:12 <Bjarni> besides missing taxes 14:44:34 <dihedral> you guys are odd 14:45:30 <qball> dihedral: be nice.. 14:45:33 <qball> we are 14:45:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: egladil * r11708 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (fullscreen.mm wnd_quartz.mm wnd_quickdraw.mm): -Fix [FS#1598]: Removed include of variables.h as it was no longer needed and caused compilation to fail. 14:46:17 <dihedral> qball: you are odd? 14:46:30 <SmatZ> I am even 14:46:38 <qball> I am complex 14:46:45 <dihedral> qball is femail! 14:46:53 <dihedral> ops - nice typo :-P 14:47:42 * Bjarni fesends qball after making sure it has enough festamps on it 14:48:06 <qball> bah, he directly wants to fondle again 14:49:32 <Bjarni> hey 14:49:51 <Bjarni> I don't sense any sexual feeling regarding sending packages at the post office 14:50:58 *** Stoffe [~mirc@89.233.243.248] has quit [Quit: Peace and Protection 4.22.2] 14:51:48 *** divoafx [~asd@87.52.36.224] has joined #openttd 14:51:50 * dihedral is not interested when Bjarni does or does not 'sense secual feelings' 14:52:07 <dihedral> flippen heck - got a typo day.... 14:52:35 <Belugas> sexual healing 14:52:36 <Bjarni> I'm not talking about it but it looks like qball wants to 14:53:38 <dihedral> just get yourselves a room will ya? 14:54:05 *** divo [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:19 *** divo [~asd@0x4dd443c6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:54:58 <Bjarni> not with him 14:55:00 <Bjarni> he is a guy 14:55:17 <dihedral> not so sure about that 14:55:26 <dihedral> 15:46 < qball> I am complex 14:56:47 <Bjarni> well 14:56:55 <Bjarni> I still don't want to get a room with him 14:57:02 <Bjarni> or her 14:57:03 <Bjarni> or it 14:57:05 <Bjarni> or whatever 14:57:21 <dihedral> you never know what might get revealed :-P 14:58:11 <Bjarni> like in Larry 5 or 6 or whatever it was... he went on a date and his date ended up getting a boner 14:58:18 <Bjarni> talk about a turnoff 14:59:03 <dihedral> hehe - yes 14:59:07 <dihedral> 5 14:59:10 <dihedral> at the beach 14:59:13 <dihedral> :-P 14:59:54 <Bjarni> I can't remember 14:59:57 <Bjarni> it has been a while 15:00:17 <Bjarni> and I didn't even bother to finish any of the games besides the first one 15:00:28 <Bjarni> didn't even try all of them 15:01:08 *** divoafx [~asd@87.52.36.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:35 <dihedral> i know because it was the only one i ever played 15:05:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11709 /trunk/config.lib: 15:05:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1385 FS#1386]: [OSX] Compiles on Leopard with the default settings 15:05:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change: [OSX] configure will no longer enable static by default 15:05:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Turns out that Leopard can't handle static builds without the user installing extra libs 15:06:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: The tradeoff is that now people might have to enable static manually if moving the binary around 15:06:30 <hylje> apple breaking stuff, news at 11 15:06:33 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6470.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:38 <skidd13> evening folks 15:06:52 <dihedral> hello skidd13 15:11:31 <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i have now action8 support in my compiler ;) 15:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> 0 * 4 01 00 00 00 15:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1 * 91 08 07 54 58 01 01 4E 61 6D 65 20 67 6F 65 73 20 68 65 72 65 00 68 65 72 65 20 79 6F 75 20 63 61 6E 20 77 72 69 74 65 20 61 20 6C 6F 6E 67 65 72 20 64 65 73 63 72 69 70 74 69 6F 6E 0A 69 6E 20 6D 75 6C 74 69 70 6C 65 20 6C 69 6E 65 73 0A 69 66 20 79 6F 75 20 77 61 6E 74 00 15:12:13 <Bjarni> <hylje> apple breaking stuff, news at 11 <-- actually this wouldn't have been a problem if I had just followed Apple's guidelines :P 15:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause3> output of: 15:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> GrfID=('TX\x01\x01','Name goes here', 15:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> """here you can write a longer description 15:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> in multiple lines 15:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause3> if you want""") #Set the GRFID 15:12:41 <hylje> is that some python 15:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is python, yes ;) 15:13:36 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i59F7C065.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:47 <Bjarni> I thought python had way more sssh sounds in it 15:13:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i59F7C065.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:13:57 <glx> does it work with empty description? 15:14:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> it should 15:14:25 <Bjarni> should.... how about testing it? :) 15:14:33 *** welterde [welterde@gandalf.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> 0 * 4 01 00 00 00 15:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1 * 8 08 07 54 58 01 01 00 00 15:15:27 <glx> seems right 15:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause3> next step... action 0 15:20:42 *** Stoffe [~mirc@89.233.243.248] has joined #openttd 15:30:33 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:16 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B04077B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:31:56 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:15 *** Digitalfox_ [~chatzilla@bl7-182-174.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:39:55 *** Mortomes_ [~mortomes@53560EE5.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:39:58 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:08 *** Mortomes is now known as Guest1389 15:40:08 *** Mortomes_ is now known as Mortomes 15:40:29 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:44:45 *** Guest1389 [~mortomes@53560EE5.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:46:48 *** LordAzamath [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 15:46:53 <LordAzamath> hey 15:47:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bjarni * r11710 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Feature: [build vehicles windows] added sorting for cost, running costs and speed to road vehicles and ships build windows 15:48:33 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:48:33 <LordAzamath> what was the last big feature added since r11666 15:48:49 <LordAzamath> I think heree should I update my nightly 15:48:52 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 15:51:22 <Bjarni> the nightly builds are made to test changes. That purpose kind of dies if you do not update even for minor changes 15:52:03 <LordAzamath> Yeah, but are what are the biggest changes then 15:52:10 * LordAzamath is too lazy for a changelog 15:52:20 <dihedral> Bjarni: that commit (11710) will that feature be added to the train build list too? 15:52:58 <LordAzamath> !nightly 15:53:21 <LordAzamath> what's the shortcut ffor it? 15:53:44 <skidd13> @nightly 15:53:51 <skidd13> hmm... nope 15:54:10 <skidd13> http://www.openttd.org/nightly.php 15:54:22 *** peterbrett [~peter@cpc2-oxfd6-0-0-cust544.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:55:31 <LordAzamath> it's so great that I no more have to copy all grf files to new binary whenever I dl it :) (I could do that before too, but I wasn't aware of that :)) 15:55:46 <dihedral> talking of which 15:55:56 <SmatZ> LordAzamath: because of symlinks? 15:55:58 <Bjarni> dihedral: it was already added to the trains and aircraft windows.... I just forgot to add it to the rest of the windows ages ago 15:56:06 <dihedral> Bjarni: would it not make more sense to have the OpenTTD directory for os x under ~/Library ? 15:56:25 <Bjarni> hmm 15:56:27 <Bjarni> good question 15:56:27 <dihedral> or ~/Library/Application Support/ 15:56:35 <dihedral> where everything else is keep too 15:56:45 <dihedral> for linux it uses ~/.openttd 15:56:48 <Bjarni> not everything else 15:56:49 <LordAzamath> smatz, I just hold all grfs (trg1r etc) in local openttd/data 15:56:59 <LordAzamath> dunno what are symlinks :D 15:57:01 <Bjarni> I have seen ~/Documents used for other games as well 15:57:18 <dihedral> really? 15:57:22 <dihedral> ouch 15:57:23 <dihedral> nasty :-P 15:57:52 <Bjarni> if we place it in library then most users will not look at it 15:58:01 <dihedral> they dont anyway!! 15:58:04 <Bjarni> kind of stupid since we add screenshots and stuff 15:58:27 <dihedral> how about a deal... 15:58:43 <dihedral> you change it and i answer all silly user questions that arise because of it :-) 15:59:31 <Bjarni> ohh that reminds me 15:59:41 <LordAzamath> Japan? trains? 15:59:43 <Bjarni> I haven't updated the docs to tell where the files are 15:59:50 * Bjarni slaps LordAzamath 15:59:50 <dihedral> TrueBrain told me to look out for your 'that reminds me' lines 15:59:53 <hylje> LordAzamath: japan is *the* train country 16:00:24 <Bjarni> <LordAzamath> Japan? trains? <--- no.... but your line did the trick :P 16:00:31 <LordAzamath> hehe 16:00:45 <LordAzamath> because I remember 16:00:52 <Bjarni> you too? 16:00:55 <Bjarni> scary 16:01:45 *** peterbrett [~peter@cpc2-oxfd6-0-0-cust544.oxfd.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:14 <LordAzamath> why don't you have line breaks in changelog which comes bundled with nightly? 16:02:28 * dihedral has no app that saves it's stuff in ~/Documents 16:03:13 <Belugas> BigBB : good luck with your attempt ;) 16:03:37 <BigBB> Hi Belugas thanks :) 16:04:19 <LordAzamath> is this ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35488 ) thing fault of Open or grf? 16:04:42 <Bjarni> dihedral: I have a few.... Lego creations and such 16:05:10 <LordAzamath> you play with legos? wow....Japanese lego trains, perfect for Brickland 16:05:11 <skidd13> LordAzamath: Simple rule if it works in Patch as expected.. it's mostly Opens fault... sad but true 16:05:37 <LordAzamath> ok... 16:05:47 <Belugas> agreed. But the problem may not be as simple 16:06:02 <Bjarni> dihedral: I have an idea... we could make a poll on the forum and ask people what they prefer... after all the forum contains the majority of users who wants to add grf files and stuff 16:07:24 <LordAzamath> one thing more about grfs...is action04 fully supported? 16:07:40 <LordAzamath> if it is, then I've got a bug rant 16:07:52 <dihedral> Bjarni: how about we poll asking os x users where they would prefer having their OpenTTD directory 16:08:18 <Bjarni> isn't that what I just said? 16:08:45 <dihedral> i thought you meant people in general 16:08:51 <dihedral> i.e. all openttd players 16:09:03 <dihedral> to see if they use grf's or the OpenTTD directory at all 16:09:04 <Bjarni> surely we will have to say that only OSX users should vote 16:09:05 <dihedral> sorry 16:09:06 <dihedral> my bad 16:09:54 <Bjarni> bbl 16:10:00 <dihedral> cu 16:10:11 <ln-> what are you going to vote about? 16:10:37 <dihedral> where os x users would like to have their OpenTTD directory 16:10:58 <dihedral> in ~/Documents or ~/Library/OpenTTD or ~/Library/Appliaction Support/OpenTTD 16:11:32 <dihedral> ~/Documents/OpenTTD is where it is now 16:12:26 <LordAzamath> anyway, the rant: xx * xx 04 48 80 01 01 58 "Toll Booth" 00 -> should change string transmitter to toll booth 16:12:47 <LordAzamath> Sometime long ago, I asked Pikkabird to test if it worked with patch 16:12:50 <LordAzamath> it did 16:12:54 <LordAzamath> but not in open 16:13:09 <LordAzamath> I can change vehicle names with 04 though 16:13:18 * Belugas thinks it's strange to have stuff saved in something called Library that is not code or binary oriented 16:13:21 <glx> LordAzamath: openttd doesn't support changing generic strings 16:13:29 <LordAzamath> why? 16:13:45 <ln-> somehow i feel ~/Library/OpenTTD is not the right place at least.. or are there other application-specific folders at that level? 16:13:50 <glx> because it requires a lot of changes 16:14:01 <ln-> (too lazy to get the mac and check) 16:14:23 <dihedral> ln- like most application folders.... 16:14:25 <LordAzamath> but is it somewhere in ToDo list (however far :D ) 16:14:31 <dihedral> for linux the dir is ~/.openttd iirc 16:14:36 <LordAzamath> yes 16:14:53 <LordAzamath> and for win under my documents/OpenTTD 16:15:34 <Belugas> which makes sens... those are just... documents :) 16:15:48 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-181-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:15:52 <dihedral> yes? 16:16:01 <dihedral> you call all the .grf's documents? 16:16:13 <Belugas> yup 16:16:19 <pv2b> Bjarni: I vote for somewhere in ~/Library 16:16:30 <Belugas> those are not executable code, just documents 16:16:31 <LordAzamath> bjarni is away 16:16:54 <pv2b> i vote... in his absence. *<:-P 16:16:56 <dihedral> Belugas: you call Thunderbirds *.rdf and *.mab files documents 16:17:23 <Belugas> since i'm not aware of those extensions, i can't answer 16:17:40 <ln-> the mac ~/Documents folder is not meant for stuff that cannot be directly opened with any application. 16:17:54 <dihedral> they are the files in thunderbirds 'Profiles' directory 16:18:22 <dihedral> you have a mix of stuff in that folder 16:18:28 <dihedral> (in the OpenTTD folder) 16:18:31 <dihedral> screenshots 16:18:34 <Belugas> which does not help me any more, dihedral 16:18:37 <dihedral> grf's scn's 16:19:08 <dihedral> firefox in linux stores it's profile data in ~/.mozilla 16:19:14 <dihedral> thunderbird in ~/.thunderbird 16:19:25 <dihedral> OpenTTD in ~/.openttd 16:19:33 <Belugas> waht is a profile data? 16:19:36 <LordAzamath> thunderbird is for linux too? 16:19:53 <LordAzamath> that's good :) 16:20:31 <pv2b> ln-: there are plenty of app folders directly under ~/Library 16:20:39 <dihedral> for thunderbird the 'profile data' is e.g. host:port username and password of your mail account 16:20:40 <ln-> pv2b: ok 16:21:02 <Belugas> so, basically, configuration 16:21:03 <dihedral> firefox stores favorites history etc there 16:21:38 <dihedral> and os x _does_ have a differences between data stored in ~/Library and ~/Library/Application Support 16:21:40 <pv2b> savegames under ~/Documents, grf's in the library. 16:21:52 <LordAzamath> do you have some documentation somewhere about which grf actions are supported and which parameers etc? I have been to wiki, but it only mentions actions w/o explanation 16:21:59 <dihedral> pv2b: splitting that up will not be helpful 16:22:12 <Belugas> i agree with dihedral 16:22:26 <Belugas> LordAzamath, yes. let me find it 16:22:28 <pv2b> most games seem to keep data files in ~/Library/Application Support 16:22:51 <pv2b> if you want to be consistent, splitting savegames and grfs up makes sense 16:22:56 <dihedral> define 'most' 16:23:05 <Belugas> LordAzamath: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/NewGRF_Support 16:23:09 <pv2b> dihedral: all games i currently have installed 16:23:16 <Belugas> it should be quite up to date 16:23:22 <dihedral> that is not a good definition of 'most games' 16:23:37 <dihedral> as i highly doubt you have 'most' games 16:23:39 <Belugas> pv2b : that is only relevant to your experience. do not generalize 16:23:53 <pv2b> dihedral: which is why i don't say "most games put".. i said "most games seem to put" 16:24:03 *** ttsmj [~martin@adsl-dyn92.91-127-112.t-com.sk] has joined #openttd 16:24:14 <dihedral> and that is an assumption - which is why i mention it :-) 16:24:17 <LordAzamath> hmm..I said I've been there :D and with emptiness I meant i.e action 4 is just mentioned with link to specs 16:24:36 <pv2b> many of these games ive only installed and launched maybe once, but these are the games that put their game data in ~/Library/Application Support 16:24:47 <LordAzamath> but nowhere is written (for n00bs like me) what things aren't supported in action4 16:25:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CEEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:25:38 <pv2b> Chess (the apple variant), Darwinia, Duke Nukem 3D, everything by Freeverse goes in Freeberse, Quake3, SecondLife, SketchFighgter, SuperTux, everything by Swoop Softare goes in that folder, Wolfenstein ET, X2 - the threat, ... 16:25:53 <pv2b> i can't find a single game directly under ~/Library in fact 16:25:55 <pv2b> on my machine 16:26:21 <dihedral> and where will they put screenshots, savegames, etc? 16:26:31 <LordAzamath> it can't be very on-date, if it says that tram tracks in instance aren't supported 16:26:34 <skidd13> LordAzamath: set the grf debug in console and you get notice which stuff of the GRF is not supported 16:26:56 <pv2b> dihedral: some of them put them in the application folder and don't present a file-browser interface at all to the player 16:27:12 <pv2b> dihedral: some of them save them as "savegame files" and put them wherever the user wants them to be put using a file/save-open metaphor 16:27:17 <pv2b> err 16:27:25 <pv2b> not the application folder, the library/application support folder 16:28:10 <pv2b> lots of games simply have a typical save/load screen 16:28:26 <pv2b> with "slots" 16:28:36 <dihedral> 'lots' as in 'most of _your_ games' 16:28:37 <pv2b> openttd doesn't really work that way, it's more document oriented in its savegame model 16:28:39 <Belugas> LordAzamath: basic rule : it there is nothing written, it mostly mean support 16:28:49 <Belugas> but... never be too sure. 16:28:56 <LordAzamath> yes 16:28:58 <pv2b> dihedral: sure, but i think i have a pretty good sample. if you want to contribute some other data, go ahead 16:29:17 <Belugas> LordAzamath I've tried to veryfy it all, it seems to be consistent 16:29:33 <pv2b> dihedral: also "lots" isn't the same as saying "most". 16:29:56 <dihedral> but it's an assumption none the less :-P 16:30:03 <pv2b> a reasonable assumption 16:30:39 <pv2b> openttd is the only game i have, that i cna think of, that keeps stuff in its own folderin /Applications like that. 16:30:55 <dihedral> there are more :-) 16:31:11 <LordAzamath> because if I hadn't asked pikka to test, I would never had known that I had coded right, because there was nothing written in wiki about action4 support. Back then I though I was hopeless and it was me who screwed up with something 16:31:16 <dihedral> dont remember their names, but i have seen more than just ottd 16:31:27 *** ttsmj [~martin@adsl-dyn92.91-127-112.t-com.sk] has left #openttd [] 16:31:28 <pv2b> dihedral: you're right, i just took a look - seems quake 3 arena does that too, but it also keeps files in library/application support. hmmmm. 16:31:29 <LordAzamath> and I didn't know about grf debug otion 16:31:51 <dihedral> q3a might keep info such as your cd key in there 16:31:56 <pv2b> dihedral: ah, i have two revisions of quake 3 -- an older one and a newer one. the oler ne keeps its crap in the /application folder, the newer one in the lbirary 16:32:05 * Belugas has spotted a not supported case in action 04 16:32:26 <dihedral> Belugas: is that what LordAzamath has been going on about for the last 30 mins? 16:32:26 <LordAzamath> :) 16:32:35 <pv2b> eitehr way, htere needs to be a split between "stock-supplied" files and "user-supplied" files 16:32:50 <dihedral> nope 16:33:01 <dihedral> where do you put Pages custom templates? 16:33:07 <dihedral> :-) 16:33:08 <pv2b> dihedral: i don't have pages istalled 16:33:09 <LordAzamath> no I spotted it when I was doing transmitter replacement to you and pikka said that it worked in patch (renaming) 16:33:29 <dihedral> i do :-P 16:33:36 <pv2b> dihedral: but i bet the stock templates are eitehr i /Library or in the app bundle 16:33:49 <pv2b> the custom ones are in ~/Library i bet... maybe in ~/Documents 16:34:09 <dihedral> nope - not ~/Documents 16:34:27 <pv2b> so somewhere in ~/Library then 16:34:33 <pv2b> since they're user-specific 16:34:50 <pv2b> unless it found its own place to put it 16:35:14 <dihedral> ~/Library/Application Support/iWork/Pages/Templates/My Templates/ 16:35:28 <pv2b> yeah, and the stock templates i bet are not there 16:35:36 <pv2b> probably in /Library/Application Support/iWork/Pages/Templates/ if i know apple *<:-) 16:36:06 <pv2b> that -- or in the app bundle 16:36:17 <dihedral> how about /Library? 16:36:26 <pv2b> how about /Library for what? 16:36:49 <dihedral> no - forget it 16:37:02 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 16:37:04 <dihedral> their templates are not in /Library 16:37:36 <pv2b> ooh, i hae an expired pages trial install. i'll look in their app bundle. 16:38:01 <pv2b> /Applications/iWork/Pages.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/Templates/ 16:38:24 <dihedral> so you are saying to have the land folder and shipped data folder in the bundled .app 16:38:38 <dihedral> and all other stuff in ~/Library/OpenTTD 16:38:46 <pv2b> yeah 16:38:56 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:38:58 <pv2b> actually 16:39:02 <dihedral> sounds good 16:39:03 <pv2b> ~/library/application support/openttd 16:39:05 <pv2b> brb phone 16:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... while reading these newgrf specs i repetitively stumble over the same kind of question... like "what are sane values for property 12 (Sprite ID) except FD (use newgrf)"? 16:39:38 <pv2b> back 16:40:20 <pv2b> so yeah, shipped data in the .app and grf in ~/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD 16:40:32 <pv2b> an everything else too, like config 16:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause3> or "in action 2, can i refer back more than the last action 1, how do these values look like"? 16:41:17 <pv2b> the user gets to choose where he puts his savegames anyway, but if it defaults inside Library.... well ok.. in Documents would be more logical... but put it in Library unless you're willing to implement double clicking openttd savegames 16:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause3> pv2b: it should not be too difficult to associate sav files with "openttd -g" 16:42:16 <dihedral> drag sav games onto the .app :-P 16:42:34 <pv2b> dihedral: heh, that acctually works? i never tried it *<:-) 16:43:04 <dihedral> hehe 16:43:11 <dihedral> nope 16:43:16 <dihedral> but it would be fun :-) 16:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause3> that should not immediately work, because you need to specify -g 16:43:35 <dihedral> but then again - i dont play that many sav games 16:44:26 <pv2b> you probalby need to implement however file associations work in osx... probably some crap in the plist file and decoding the argv osx sends you whenever something like that happens 16:44:34 <LordAzamath> hmm..I should probably go back to linux now...brb 16:44:39 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6470.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [quit:Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D] 16:44:44 *** LordAzamath [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:04 *** LA[lord] [~LAlord]@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:48:34 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, i can't answer you 16:48:49 <Belugas> not without extended research, anyway 16:49:12 <Belugas> which i do not feel like doing :S 16:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, the doc is not very specific sometimes... 16:49:41 <Belugas> it assumes you should know... or as Dalestan mentionned once, that you've read it all first 16:50:17 <pv2b> btw. how old is the master server protocol? i want to find whoever deciced it's be funny to send the IP address in little-endian and the port in big-endian in the same packet 16:50:23 <pv2b> s/it's/it'd/ 16:51:10 <Belugas> svn blame, pv2b 16:51:34 <pv2b> that only finds the last person to implement the protocol, not the first person to define it *<:-) 16:51:36 <Belugas> LA[lord], i've updated the wiki, assuming you are LordAzamath ;) 16:51:45 <LA[lord]> I am :) 16:52:03 <pv2b> though that person also deserves a little talking to, the code implementation was misleading 16:52:33 <pv2b> he used TO_LE32 to convert from little-endian to network byte order 16:52:40 <pv2b> or no. 16:52:57 <pv2b> from little-endian to... uh.... something 16:53:15 <pv2b> good thing we have packet sniffers 16:54:26 <LA[lord]> Belugas, if generic strings are "kind of" supported then how do I kind of use it? 16:54:32 <LA[lord]> for action04 16:57:14 <Belugas> if you look at the history, you'll notice the "possibly wrong" section :) 16:57:16 <hylje> one thing came in mind.. 16:57:22 <hylje> to free up some road crossing bits 16:57:33 <hylje> only allow the slower (conventional) rail to have crossings at all 16:57:50 <Belugas> LA[lord] i'm at work, right now, and not able to run nor debug stuff 16:58:12 <LA[lord]> ok :) 16:58:28 <hylje> though it'd break old savegames badly :> 16:58:28 <Belugas> hylje, that is NOT a good idea 16:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... how does that look like: 16:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> class MyPassengerWagon(TTDPassengerWagon): #We define a new Passenger wagon, and override the default wagon 16:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> SpriteID=0xFD 16:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause3> IntroductionDate=1234 16:58:36 <Belugas> i just can imagine the complaints.... 16:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause3> turns into: 16:58:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> 2 * 10 00 00 02 01 1B 00 D2 04 12 FD 17:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause3> 1B == ID of the passenger wagon 17:01:58 <Belugas> interesting :) 17:02:14 <Bjarni> back 17:02:39 <Bjarni> looks like this channel wants to use ~/Library so making a poll is a bit pointless 17:03:59 <Bjarni> now the question is... how should I make this change without breaking it for everybody using ~/Documents/OpenTTD 17:04:07 * Belugas does not care much about in which folder osx saves ottd stuff, but would imagine more osx users may have more opinions on forums 17:04:10 <Bjarni> and should we care since it has never been in an official release 17:04:52 * Bjarni heads for the forum 17:07:47 *** LA[lord] [~LAlord]@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:34 <pv2b> uh. this code should never have worked to start with. i don't understand why it works. 17:08:57 <pv2b> it's in the server browser -- network_udp.cpp 17:09:57 <Belugas> [12:14] <pv2b> uh. this code should never have worked to start with. <--- but it does :) 17:10:13 <Belugas> [12:14] <pv2b> ...i don't understand why it works. <---- now, that is something else :) 17:10:51 <Belugas> for the record, it's quite magical to me too. But i would not say that it should not work... 17:11:05 <pv2b> take a look at DEF_UDP_RECEIVE_COMMAND(Client, PACKET_UDP_MASTER_RESPONSE_LIST) 17:11:29 <pv2b> on the wire, the fields are sent with the port in the correct byte order (little endian) for the protocol. 17:11:54 <pv2b> the ip address is sent in big endian (so the wrong byte order for the protocol) 17:12:24 <pv2b> so when the packet is received on the machine it has to be converted from "architecture-specific wrong byte order" into network byte order 17:12:50 <pv2b> (you get architecture-specific wrong byte order from p->Recv_uint32()) 17:12:57 <pv2b> so... he uses TO_LE32?! 17:13:25 <pv2b> and somehow this works on both big-endian and little-endian machines? 17:15:36 <Belugas> could it be that you have failed to understand a magice here and there? 'Cause it do work 17:15:55 <pv2b> probably 17:16:00 <Belugas> and no, i cannot answer you, i have no knowledge of networking 17:16:09 <pv2b> that, or TO_LE32 is a broken and misleading name for a macro 17:16:25 <Belugas> or adapted to the currently used platform 17:16:39 <Belugas> or it is somewhere else that the magic hapens 17:17:58 *** LordAzamath [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 17:18:05 *** LordAzamath is now known as LA[Lord] 17:18:08 <pv2b> ah. now i see. on a little-endian machine, no byte swap is performed 17:18:11 <SmatZ> pv2b: network byte order is big endian 17:18:21 <pv2b> SmatZ: it is, but the openttd protocol uses little-endian 17:18:31 <Bjarni> how do I change font size on the forum? 17:18:40 <Bjarni> I want the first line to be bigger than the rest 17:18:47 <pv2b> oh, now i think i understand how it works. 17:19:17 <SmatZ> pv2b: sockets and so should be initiated with big endian 17:19:22 <pv2b> SmatZ: yeah, i know 17:19:31 <pv2b> if you perform TO_LE32 on an integer on a big-endian machine, it performs byte swap (converting from HBO to little-endian) 17:19:33 <SmatZ> the datacan be sent in little endian - because mos tof clients use little endian 17:19:46 <SmatZ> and because it is ported from TTD that was using little endian 17:20:00 <pv2b> if on a little-endian machine, it does nothing 17:20:14 <pv2b> so, perform byteswap on a big-endian machie, no byteswap on a little-endian machine 17:20:20 <SmatZ> :) 17:20:31 <pv2b> but if the input is *always* in the wrong byte order: 17:20:45 <pv2b> on a little-endian machine: that's big-endian->big-endian 17:20:52 <pv2b> on a bigg-endian machine: little-endian->big-endian 17:21:02 <pv2b> this should be commented. will you commit a patch if i add a comment? *<:-) 17:21:19 <SmatZ> pv2b: most likely not for one comment 17:21:28 <SmatZ> you can comment whole file :-)))) 17:21:34 <Belugas> definitively, if the comment is quite thorough 17:21:34 <Bjarni> that depends on the comment 17:21:47 * Belugas seconds SmatZ :D 17:21:51 <pv2b> okay. i'll get back to you in a few minutes 17:21:58 <pv2b> i have no svn write access so ill have to send it to someone 17:22:07 <Bjarni> you can comment the whole file that quickly??? 17:22:16 <SmatZ> :))) 17:22:18 <pv2b> no, just that really confusing part. 17:22:21 <pv2b> the rest is really clear 17:23:10 <pv2b> openttd avoids byte order issues by using an abstraction that converts from little-endian to host byte order before anything else is done, so usually there's no real problems 17:23:47 <SmatZ> similiar thing is done while loading/saving game 17:25:13 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:25:49 <Bjarni> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=35490 <-- ok... I made a poll on the forums so now we will see how it turns out 17:26:02 <Bjarni> we can always hope for interesting replies 17:28:06 <ln-> would you mind uppercasing e.g. "application support", now it doesn't stand out as a path name, just random words. 17:29:15 <ln-> and i vote for placing screenshots in ~/Documents/OpenTTD, most other stuff in ~/Application Support/OpenTTD 17:29:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11711 /trunk/src/ (fios.h functions.h intro_gui.cpp main_gui.cpp misc_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Name the Save Load Dialog Mode enum 17:31:11 <Bjarni> ln-: done 17:33:54 *** BigBB_ [~BigBB@p5B041A1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:34:04 <Belugas> nice poll, Bjarni, well written :) 17:35:18 <Bjarni> thanks 17:35:19 <Bjarni> I think so too 17:35:37 <Bjarni> specially the part where I claim the rights to ignore the result :P 17:36:00 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:37:28 <Belugas> yeah :D 17:40:08 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B04077B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:53 <LA[Lord]> so it's like ask their opinion but do whatever you like? :D 17:45:32 <pv2b> ln-: what about savegames? 17:45:47 <pv2b> ln-: hell, i think screenshots should go on the desktop -- that's mac convention 17:46:07 <Belugas> or rather see what are the different opinions... 17:46:35 <Belugas> and if something very interesting comes up, well... why not :) 17:46:37 <pv2b> i'll post on the forum a bit later as soon as i finish this. 17:47:17 <pv2b> Belugas: like "clearly, we shguldn't be putting all the burden of saving this on the user computer. we need to work on converting openttd into a web2.0 application. then all of these user-side storage issues will just disappear" 17:47:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host39-235-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:48:14 <Wolf01> hello 17:48:29 <SmatZ> hello Wolf01 17:48:55 * SmatZ just heard "web2.0" buzzword :-x 17:49:03 <Belugas> pv2b : you are strange man... 17:49:17 <pv2b> Belugas: i meant that as a joke. *<:-) 17:49:25 <Wolf01> hi Belugas, had a nice xmas? 17:49:33 *** BigBB [~BigBB@p5B041A1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:49:38 *** BigBB_ [~BigBB@p5B041A1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BigBB_] 17:49:58 <Belugas> still trying to digest all the good food i've had on my plate, Wolf01 :) thanks and you? 17:51:17 <Wolf01> yes, some pain in the back thanks to stupid weather, a lot of money spent and the good "lasagne" of my grandmother :) 17:51:17 *** LA[Lord] [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]] 17:51:44 <Bjarni> <LA[Lord]> so it's like ask their opinion but do whatever you like? :D <-- it's a guideline. If everybody decides on something then it could be the solution. If 70% says the same but somebody brings up a really good argument telling why it's a bad idea then it's a bad idea 17:51:53 <Bjarni> bahh 17:51:55 <Bjarni> he left 17:52:11 <Bjarni> anyway nobody claims the majority to be right 17:52:31 <pv2b> Bjarni: that's how democracy should work. it'd eliminiate so much stupidity in government. 17:52:41 <Bjarni> if we have a poll where the result is that 2+2=5 it wouldn't make it right just because the majority says so 17:53:26 <Belugas> mmhhh... a real italian lasagna :D I'm ready to go eating again ;) 17:53:36 <Bjarni> democracy is a poor type of government but we use it because we lack something better 17:54:35 <Bjarni> dictatorship could be the best one if the people in charge would do the right things but usually they don't and then it ends up being a really bad type of government 17:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause3> that's what happened with "communism" 17:55:19 <Bjarni> I mean if you are elected for life then you don't have to think about the next election and you can plan far into the future... something that's rare in democracy where most politicians plans for the next election 17:55:27 *** kbrooks [~kbrooks@d235-130-238.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:40 <kbrooks> hi 17:55:47 <SmatZ> I don't think communism was bad, but it doesn't motivate people to do their best / at least something good :( 17:55:54 <kbrooks> What's up? 17:56:19 <SmatZ> kbrooks: nothing, really 17:56:29 <Bjarni> Communism didn't give people benefits for being productive so they stopped being productive 17:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause3> that is true, but that is not the ultimate reason why communism failed 17:56:54 <kbrooks> http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=openttd&search=Search # there you go 17:57:23 <Bjarni> kind of like the idea where every citizen should get a paycheck and then they can work on what they want.... now how many would work full time in a system like that? 17:57:33 <kbrooks> Bjarni, none 17:57:47 <Bjarni> I think so too 17:58:10 <Bjarni> however there are still some people considering this to be the ultimate solution 17:58:19 <kbrooks> Bjarni, why wouldn't i have the incentive to work full time? 17:58:31 <pv2b> Bjarni: we shouldn'gt have to work full time in todays' society with so much automation 17:58:38 <kbrooks> Bjarni, with the "paycheck" thing 17:58:44 <pv2b> Bjarni: the only reason everybody mostly owrks full time is because of inefficiencies 17:59:05 <kbrooks> Bjarni, would you like to answer my question? 17:59:09 <Bjarni> however those people also claims that we should accept everybody nomatter what political views they have AND they will not allow people to disagree with them 17:59:10 <SmatZ> kbrooks: youtube video codec isn't really suited for ottd graphics 17:59:22 <pv2b> unfortunately, the communist systme didn't really give anybody any incentive to be efficient either, and the time wasn't really ripe for lower working hours either 17:59:57 <Bjarni> "I will not talk to you because I will talk to everybody and I think that you don't want to do that" 18:00:55 <Bjarni> <kbrooks> Bjarni, would you like to answer my question? <--- it's not that I don't want to do that... I can't 18:01:11 <kbrooks> Bjarni, why not? 18:01:28 <kbrooks> SmatZ, yeah, i notice that 18:01:50 <SmatZ> I think the mayor problem is that people had advantages when they were in the communist party, when they informed the police about somebody doing something "agains the country" etc. 18:02:01 <SmatZ> but now, we have democracy, and this didn't change a lot 18:02:57 <SmatZ> still there are people who are politics because they will have more success in their business this way (know people, have the chance to change laws, ...) 18:03:24 <Bjarni> we have a word for politicians like that 18:03:24 <SmatZ> and now, cameras are "everywhere" - the state doesn't need any informers - 18:03:48 <SmatZ> yes, partially they are called 'lobbists' 18:04:13 <SmatZ> lobbism = new word for bribing 18:04:17 <Bjarni> I meant politicians being in politics because they can get more power/make more money than they could otherwise 18:04:25 *** dihedral_ [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-226-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:04:54 *** dihedral is now known as Guest1399 18:04:54 *** dihedral_ is now known as dihedral 18:05:17 <dihedral> :-) 18:05:32 <kbrooks> blah ...... 18:05:57 <dihedral> are you talking down on my smily? 18:06:26 <kbrooks> dihedral, no, on politics 18:06:32 <SmatZ> :-) 18:06:37 <dihedral> good answer 18:06:48 *** peter__ [~petern@217.151.109.242] has joined #openttd 18:06:52 <kbrooks> i don't like the nature of politics 18:07:18 <Bjarni> The worst kind of politicians are those going into politics because their dad did and then they copy their politics... this means that they can't make compromises because you can make compromises when it comes to your political view, but not when you are following somebody else's political views 18:07:33 <dihedral> you will not like it if i told you that your sentence just was political :-) 18:07:35 <pv2b> any developer online with a windows machine? i need to see that my patch still works a. on a little-endian machine and b. on sometihng else than gcc. (it should, but i want to make sure) 18:08:06 <dihedral> what kind of patch is it? 18:08:06 <kbrooks> dihedral, that's your opinion 18:08:15 <SmatZ> Bjarni: or they try to be better and more famous than their dad - Bush maybe? 18:08:18 <dihedral> ah - and again politics :-P 18:08:23 <pv2b> dihedral: a small refactoring that clarifies a part of the network protocol. 18:08:30 <pv2b> dihedral: zero functional difference. 18:08:31 <kbrooks> dihedral, ... but maybe my sentence was political (including this one?) 18:08:42 <dihedral> nope 18:08:58 <dihedral> Bjarni: did you already create the poll? 18:09:03 <Bjarni> yes 18:09:39 <Bjarni> <SmatZ> Bjarni: or they try to be better and more famous than their dad - Bush maybe? <-- actually I was thinking about some local politicians but Bush is a candidate for this as well 18:10:17 <Bjarni> worst argument I ever heard during an election campaign "vote for me because you know my father" 18:10:23 <Bjarni> one guy actually said this 18:10:51 <pv2b> Bjarni: actually a semivalid argument 18:10:59 <pv2b> Bjarni: disclose your influences, disclose yourself 18:11:01 <SmatZ> :) 18:11:20 <Bjarni> well... might be good if he said anything else as well 18:11:25 <pv2b> it's probably one of the more honest campaign arguments you cna make 18:12:02 <Bjarni> what happened to "if I get elected I will try to do this and this"? 18:12:10 <SmatZ> Bjarni: one politic here had a billboard with his photo and somthing like "I look siliar like politic A, and my name is the same as of politic B" (the sentence was written in a funny way, but still :) 18:12:11 <pv2b> Bjarni: that's just bullshit anyway 18:12:11 <Bjarni> and then actually do it 18:12:26 <Wolf01> Bjarni, what about adding a sort by cargo name to vehicle building windows? 18:12:50 <SmatZ> actually, he died maybe one month ago... he was fixing his car and somebody crashed him :-x 18:12:56 <Bjarni> <pv2b> Bjarni: that's just bullshit anyway <-- during last election only one party didn't change politics during the election and now they are actually doing what they claimed to do during the election 18:13:14 <pv2b> Bjarni: nice. are their policies sane? 18:13:23 <SmatZ> "and now they are actually doing what they claimed to do during the election" unbelievable! 18:13:45 <Bjarni> it's the 3rd largest party in the country so they can actually do stuff 18:13:57 <pv2b> Bjarni: which party? 18:14:06 <Bjarni> DF 18:14:46 <pv2b> Bjarni: that's a sad reflection of politics, that they're your most respectable political party *<:-/ 18:15:11 <Bjarni> huh? 18:15:32 <Bjarni> have you ever listened to what they say themselves? 18:16:08 <pv2b> Bjarni: i mean, respectible in the sense of being honest about what they want and what their politics are 18:16:13 <Bjarni> there is a large group of specially Swedish journalists who wants to claim stuff about them that they never say themselves and never tries to do 18:16:14 <pv2b> Bjarni: not in the sense of having sane policy 18:16:34 <Bjarni> I don't know why specially the Swedish media flames them 18:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause3> am i reading this correctly that grfs use \r (0x0D) as newline character internally? 18:20:43 <dihedral> that sounds like the old mac os 18:20:44 <pv2b> Bjarni: sure. i've been to their web site. sounds like pretty much the same fare sd put out on their site here in sweden. 18:21:51 <dihedral> !dihedral 18:22:04 <dihedral> wrong channel :-P 18:22:22 <pv2b> dihedral: you have your own trigger? *<:-) 18:22:37 <dihedral> aye - on openttdcoop 18:23:16 * Bjarni shoots dihedral 18:23:21 <dihedral> ?? 18:23:22 <Bjarni> here I have the trigger 18:23:25 <pv2b> anyway, any developer online who uses a windows machine to develop on to test a patch? 18:23:26 <dihedral> LOL 18:23:49 <Bjarni> any developer who use windows..... kind of hard to find 18:24:02 <pv2b> Bjarni: who builds your windows binaries then? 18:24:29 <Bjarni> cross compile xD 18:24:38 <pv2b> all right *<:-) 18:24:44 <SmatZ> pv2b: a compile farm does all this compiling :) 18:24:49 <pv2b> in that case, anyone with a little-endian machine with access to that compiler? *<;-) 18:25:01 <SmatZ> pv2b: what changes did you do? 18:25:08 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N788P002.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 18:25:20 <Bjarni> I thought you only added comments 18:25:37 <pv2b> yeah, i thought so too, but i found a way to make the code a lot clearer. 18:25:41 <Bjarni> that's hardly an issue that needs testing on all platforms 18:25:50 <pv2b> no, i just want to make sure i don't break little-endian machines 18:25:56 <peter__> rm *.cpp D: 18:26:24 <Bjarni> rm -fr * 18:26:33 <Bjarni> that should remove all the buggy code 18:27:19 <tokai> peter__: don't forget *.hpp :) 18:27:28 <pv2b> actually openttd uses *.h 18:27:33 <SmatZ> + * (port, little-endian) for each pair 18:27:48 <pv2b> SmatZ: that's correct, verified using packet sniffer 18:27:52 <SmatZ> :-x 18:28:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:28:20 <pv2b> everything is sent using the native protocol byte order (little endian) except the ip adress which is sent using the network byte order 18:29:02 <Bjarni> Vocaloid is NOT A HENTAI GAME <--- LOL. It's a voice synthesiser :D 18:29:41 <Bjarni> somebody actually claimed it to be not only a game, but a hentai game.... sometimes the internet scares me 18:30:24 <Gonozal_VIII> only sometimes? 18:31:16 <Bjarni> that depends on what I'm looking at 18:31:51 <Bjarni> if I'm reading bash.org or anything else where regular users can say stuff then yes 18:32:06 <Bjarni> if it's something like openttd.org where only sane people have write access then no 18:32:40 <Gonozal_VIII> your definition of sane includes sacro? 18:32:43 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 18:32:47 <peter__> meh 18:33:05 <Bjarni> last time I checked Sacro lacked write permission to openttd.org 18:34:43 <dihedral> touch openttd.org workes for me :-P 18:35:40 <peter__> Bjarni, crap, he's hacked it 18:41:48 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 18:41:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 18:42:16 *** Ondalf_Stardust [ondalf@88.193.145.148] has joined #openttd 18:42:22 *** glx is now known as Guest1400 18:42:22 *** glx|away is now known as glx 18:42:35 <ln-> 19:45 < pv2b> ln-: what about savegames? <-- well.. generally you don't copy them out of the dir, so it could be Application Support. 18:42:51 <ln-> also you cannot open savegames directly from Finder 18:44:16 <pv2b> ln-: well, depends who you are. you might want to bring savegames with you on a usb stick or email them. depends what your usage scenarios are 18:44:31 <pv2b> and opening savegames from the finder should be relatively easy to do 18:46:33 <pv2b> is this directory move t hing planned for 0.6? 18:46:36 <pv2b> or for later versions? 18:46:59 <dihedral> yes - but ~/Library/Application Support will confuse people more 18:47:03 *** Guest1400 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:47:19 <ln-> eeexcellent 18:48:06 <dihedral> pv2b not planned at all i think 18:48:34 <Bjarni> not planned at all but dihedral wants me to move it 18:48:46 <dihedral> may i rephrase that 18:48:56 <Bjarni> and if it's moved then it's best that it's moved before it is ever released in a stable release 18:49:10 <pv2b> i agree 18:49:13 <Bjarni> so if it's moved then it's planned for 0.6.0 18:49:15 <dihedral> dihedral would appreciate it, if it were moved to ~/Library to 'blend in' a little more 18:49:30 <dihedral> but in no way want's to 'request' anything :-) 18:49:34 <ln-> i vote for c:\openttd 18:49:44 * Bjarni slaps ln- 18:49:48 <Bjarni> mac users only 18:49:50 <Gonozal_VIII> pop up a window where you can select where to save stuff on first start? 18:49:56 <pv2b> ln-: /C:\OPENTTD 18:49:57 * dihedral helps Bjarni with the slapping 18:49:57 <pv2b> *<:D 18:50:13 *** Sogard^ [~Sogard@ip68-98-68-156.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:14 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: uh, no. annoying users is not a good idea. 18:50:20 <Bjarni> and.... if you claim something like that you aren't a mac user 18:50:27 <Bjarni> you could be a mac owner, but not a mac user 18:50:38 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: just default to ~/Documents/OpenTTD and actually remember where the user goes between sessions 18:50:44 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: that's the most confusing solution of all. 18:51:03 <pv2b> i had some files in another directory for some debug stuff and openttd wouldn't remember where i last opened stuff 18:51:20 <pv2b> Bjarni: oh, btw, the old "free space" bug is still there in the latest 0.6.0-beta2 binary build 18:51:27 <pv2b> Bjarni: (0 bytes free) 18:51:39 <Bjarni> only on 10.3.9 18:51:42 <Bjarni> (I hope) 18:51:44 <pv2b> i'm on 10.4.9 18:51:46 <Gonozal_VIII> most confusing... why? 18:51:47 <pv2b> or not .9 18:51:51 <pv2b> 10.4.11 18:52:06 <Bjarni> PPC? 18:52:12 <pv2b> ppc. 18:52:17 <pv2b> oh 18:52:18 <pv2b> never mind 18:52:22 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: what would you answer to such popup? 18:52:24 <pv2b> i lied... i launched the 0.5 by misteake 18:52:32 <Bjarni> ... 18:52:36 <Gonozal_VIII> select the path... 18:52:53 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: which path? 18:53:02 <pv2b> bbl. food. 18:53:09 <pv2b> sorry for scaring you like that Bjarni *<:-) 18:53:13 <Gonozal_VIII> where the cfg and savegames and so on should be saved... 18:53:31 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: and what path would that be? 18:53:40 <Bjarni> pv2b: I wasn't scared on behalf of OpenTTD... I was scared that user stupidity had struck you as well 18:53:46 <Gonozal_VIII> for me it would be the game dir 18:53:51 <Bjarni> turns out that was the case :( 18:54:26 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: where is the game dir? 18:54:47 <Gonozal_VIII> ? that doesn't matter 18:54:59 <Bjarni> heh... two votes so far and they don't even agree 18:55:39 <Bjarni> no replies either 18:55:47 <Bjarni> so far it's useless :/ 18:55:59 * Bjarni gives it some more time 18:56:00 <Bjarni> bbl 18:56:07 <hylje> http://img.4chan.org/b/src/1198780108460.jpg 18:56:16 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: why ask at all if it doesn't matter? 18:56:42 *** Ikarus-70 [~florian.s@p54843DFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:47 <Ikarus-70> hi 18:56:49 <Gonozal_VIII> :S 18:56:53 <SmatZ> :-D 18:57:02 *** Sogard [~Sogard@ip68-106-55-58.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:57:02 *** Sogard^ is now known as Sogard 18:57:29 <Gonozal_VIII> E:\Spiele\OpenTTD\OpenTTD 11703 <-- well, that's the gamedir for me atm 18:57:37 <SmatZ> 4chan... the place where weird and scary people meet with sexual deviants :-p 18:57:55 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl4-211-185.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 18:58:30 <Ikarus-70> I am still suffering this 0.6.0 always looses connection problem 18:59:02 <ln-> have you seen a doctor about it? 18:59:25 <Ikarus-70> I hope that the best doctor for it is here^^ 18:59:26 <Gonozal_VIII> the game could look in that dir for a textfile called path or something and if it doesn't exist ask the user for the path 18:59:38 <hylje> llama 19:00:03 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:52 <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: and that would be terribly confusing. 19:01:07 <Gonozal_VIII> erm... why? 19:02:16 <ln-> does your web browser ask you where to save its settings? 19:04:18 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 19:04:19 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't care about where the browser saves its settings but i care where my savegames are 19:05:05 <Belugas> somehow, you can view ottd as a savegame browser ^_^ 19:05:16 <dihedral> :-P 19:06:22 * Belugas wonders about usefullness of user-defined-save-space upon installation or first use or whatever 19:06:40 <Belugas> probably a sterile idea after all.. 19:06:52 <Belugas> futile, at least... 19:07:22 <dihedral> openttd.cfg section [misc] :-P 19:07:41 <Gonozal_VIII> you can't save in the cfg where to save the cfg^^ 19:07:57 <Belugas> [misc]... no way... garbage collection 19:10:18 <SmatZ> :-D 19:11:09 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:16:46 <kyevan> ln-: Actually, many web browsers DO ask, or at least allow you to change it in the config pannels :P 19:16:50 <pv2b> Bjarni: well, i am mostly a user, even if i code sometimes *<:-) 19:17:32 <pv2b> kyevan: 1. firefox. 2.??? 19:17:46 *** LA[Lord] [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 19:18:00 <Gonozal_VIII> what else would you need except firefox? 19:18:19 <pv2b> i mean, what else lets you choose where to keep settings? 19:18:24 <kyevan> Gonozal_VIII: A browser that can run more than ten minutes without leaking memory to the point of needing a reboot :P 19:18:34 <pv2b> firefox has this annoying thing with lock files "omg my settings are locked please choose a profile" thing 19:18:40 <Gonozal_VIII> that's been fixed years ago 19:19:14 <pv2b> i mean, choosing firefox from the ages where that was neccessary to serve as an ideal for how openttd should work is just... no 19:19:15 <kyevan> Also, Opera is closer in rendering to the mobile and embedded Opera varients, for obvious reasons. 19:19:51 *** Ikarus-70 [~florian.s@p54843DFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:03 <dihedral> [20:07] <Gonozal_VIII> you can't save in the cfg where to save the cfg^^ <--- that was the pun 19:20:21 <pv2b> you can save where to save the cfg in the cfg 19:20:29 <pv2b> you just have to ask the user on startup where the cfg is 19:23:55 <dihedral> defeats the mentioned purpose 19:27:04 <kyevan> But.. 19:27:13 <kyevan> Does it matter where the config is saved? 19:27:13 <Gonozal_VIII> but! 19:27:45 <kyevan> Telling it where to put the save files for games, by default, is more like letting you specify the defaut download directory. 19:27:57 <Gonozal_VIII> it seems to matter for mac users (forum) 19:29:21 <dihedral> [20:27] <Gonozal_VIII> but! <--- butt :-) 19:30:33 <kyevan> You can't please mac users without driving everyone else crazy. 19:30:47 <Bjarni> damn 19:30:50 <kyevan> Macs, and most of their users, are all about consitancy. 19:30:55 <Bjarni> how did you figure that out? 19:31:21 <kyevan> It's a nice thing, really, unless you're trying to write software that works on more than just macs :P 19:33:57 <Belugas> [14:36] <kyevan> You can't please mac users without driving everyone else crazy. <--- yes you can. it's called compiler switchs (or something like that) 19:33:57 <Bjarni> this issue will not even affect other platforms 19:33:57 <Bjarni> it's about what to put in a string that only affects OSX 19:34:54 <kyevan> Bjarni: Oh, and you want to keep a proper Aqua interface and somethign that works everywhere in sync? OpenTTD can get away with the built-in thing, because it's a game, but most things can't 19:35:36 * Belugas thinks this whole conversation looks like some shed-painting stuff that Tron explained once... 19:36:27 <Belugas> ho... sorry... bike-shed-painting :D 19:37:03 <peter__> HEY HEY HEY 19:37:11 * peter__ ponders painting his bike shed 19:37:41 <peter__> (except that it's wet and dark, but never mind) 19:37:51 * Belugas is surprised! he does not remember seeen any bike shed on peter__'s garden ;) 19:38:22 <Belugas> -seeen +seeing 19:43:20 <kyevan> Nothin's commin' past that door! Not hell, not water, not the letter G! 19:44:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-212-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:46:05 <Bjarni> bike-shed painting? 19:47:56 <Bjarni> anyway I just posted this on the forum to settle the argument once and for all (I hope). I can live with any of the solutions if needed 19:48:09 <Bjarni> but I don't want people complaining all the time 19:50:20 <pv2b> Bjarni: my opinion on the shade of the bike shed posted. 19:54:16 <ln-> http://www.ilkeryoldas.com/digg/flash.jpg 19:55:09 <Gonozal_VIII> yay queen 19:56:25 <Wolf01> looooooooool 19:56:30 <pv2b> ln-: flash! ...aa-aaaaah!!! 19:56:36 <pv2b> saviour of the universe! 19:56:44 <pv2b> or something. 19:56:56 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1BEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:08 <pv2b> maybe wrong flash though. 19:57:45 <peter__> there is only one flash 19:59:01 <Gonozal_VIII> there's only one queen! 19:59:01 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 19:59:09 <peter__> best sound track ever, of course 19:59:20 <Wolf01> [20:59:08] <Gonozal_VIII> there's only one queen! <- freddy mercury 20:00:15 <pv2b> kyevan: also, you can satisfy mac users on the file plaacement front without driving anybody else. in fact, you could make everybody else very happy by following similar standards. 20:00:40 <pv2b> kyevan: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=651103#p651103 20:02:39 <Bjarni> dihedral: now see what you started.... now according to the forum we should alter how the path stuff works on all platforms >_< 20:02:46 <pavel1269> wow, i almost prayed for fix whats at r11697, i thought that was due to MSVS :)) 20:03:59 <dihedral> Bjarni: ill respond to it... 20:04:31 * Bjarni is not in the mood for coding anything that complex 20:04:38 <Bjarni> and it's likely that I never will be 20:05:59 <kyevan> pv2b: File placement is fairly easy, yes. 20:06:57 <kyevan> Windows, <User Dir>/My Documents/<Program Name>, Unixes, ~/.<Program Name>, Macs have their library directory, which I forget the exact structure of, butanyway. 20:07:09 <pv2b> yeah. 20:07:21 <kyevan> UIs, though, and where data files go, not really. 20:07:24 <pv2b> either way there is a seperation between user data and application data. 20:07:38 <kyevan> You can't even please every unixer on application data :P 20:07:49 <pv2b> bah. /usr/share and ~/.openttd *<;-) 20:07:56 <pv2b> if they don't accept that they can diaf 20:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause3> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35497&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a 20:08:28 <kyevan> pv2b: Oh? What if the data's not installed by the package manager, like in OTTD's case? 20:08:30 <Gonozal_VIII> everything in the game dir on every os, discussion closed^^ 20:08:34 <kyevan> /usr/local/share/ 20:08:41 <pv2b> kyevan: well, that's waht i meant. 20:08:46 <kyevan> Gonozal_VIII: That's horrible and evil and can not work. 20:08:57 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A44EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:59 <pv2b> kyevan: /usr/local/sharei f manual install, /usr/share if packaged install. 20:08:59 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~dex@i59F7DAB5.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:09:11 <kyevan> Package managers install to /usr/, nothing manualy goes there except in /usr/local/ 20:09:48 <Gonozal_VIII> [21:08:46] kyevan: Gonozal_VIII: That's horrible and evil and can not work. <-- so that's a yes then? 20:09:58 <pv2b> i should investigate how hard it would be to hack together a patch to do what i suggest. 20:10:01 <kyevan> And on OS X, that requires breaking the illusion that bundles are one file 20:10:09 <pv2b> kyevan: nah 20:10:21 <pv2b> kyevan: ~?/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD 20:10:32 <kyevan> Eh, true 20:10:39 <Bjarni> this is just great 20:10:48 <Bjarni> now there is one vote on each option :s 20:10:52 <kyevan> but don't put it in ~/ only, the generic files probably belong in the shared library :P 20:11:05 <dihedral> i am against Application Support 20:11:07 <pv2b> Bjarni: 1.5 on ~/L/AS 20:11:40 <kyevan> Honestly, the best solution is have a list of paths it looks in :P 20:11:44 <pv2b> hey, i think i know how this will end up. however whoever codes it makes it *<;-) 20:12:04 <kyevan> For example, on OS X, in the bundel, in /Library/ somewhere, in the ~/Library/ equivelent 20:12:11 <Gonozal_VIII> a text file named "path.txt" in the gamedir :-) 20:12:25 <pv2b> kyevan: that's my suggestion i wrote on the forum too 20:12:27 <Bjarni> it already has a bunch of places to look for files. The question is where the game should place files 20:12:34 <kyevan> Then define a sane override order :) 20:12:49 <pv2b> Bjarni: maybe you could describe how it works now? 20:12:55 <kyevan> Place it in the user's choice, of course >_> 20:13:14 <kyevan> Defaulting to a position in the user directory somewhere. 20:13:28 <pv2b> no. users should not be allowed to choose 20:13:30 <pv2b> users are bloody idiots 20:13:35 <kyevan> (Except on install, where it probably goes in the global thing) 20:14:15 <kyevan> pv2b: If you can't choose, that makes things like running two servers or a server and a client in one user account nearly impossible 20:14:20 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F1BEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:14:31 <pv2b> okay. true. 20:14:45 <pv2b> so precede the search path with . 20:15:19 <kyevan> Or give each install a prefix for autocreated files, and save to the same dir 20:15:29 <kyevan> for example, foo_autosave01 and bar_autosave01 20:15:50 <kyevan> defaulting to the empty string :P 20:15:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~dex@i59F7C065.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:20 <dihedral> guys - it's just to make blend in a little more to more or less standard os x behavior 20:16:49 <kyevan> Anyway, I'm just a user and occasional server op, not really a developer. 20:16:50 <pv2b> kyevan: eh. no. that's just a poor reimplementation of directories 20:17:00 <kyevan> C and ++ make my head hurt 20:17:17 <pv2b> c++ can make anybody's head hurt if used in the right way. 20:17:22 <kyevan> (C++ isn't any better than C, because it hadn't been incremented when it was returned :P) 20:17:36 <dihedral> flamers... 20:17:40 <pv2b> yeah if you think about it like that, C is actually better than C++ 20:17:40 <kyevan> Java's pretty horrible, but at least it's MOSTLY objects :P 20:17:42 <LA[Lord]> I have got good new for 8bpp graphics replacement project...we've got Leppka's Water 20:17:55 <pv2b> because C++ is being incremented, and C is already incremented by C++ 20:17:59 <Gonozal_VIII> java is cool 20:18:01 <Belugas> youhoyu! 20:18:06 <pv2b> so C == C++ + 1 20:18:17 * Belugas youhoued at LA[Lord] good news... 20:18:27 <kyevan> pv2b: that's the same as ++C 20:18:30 <kyevan> I think. 20:18:40 <Gonozal_VIII> yay water 20:18:45 * pv2b prefers laguages such as objective c and python. 20:18:51 <Belugas> Delphi! 20:18:53 <LA[Lord]> Belugas, that means that you have to include BigBB's patch for missing shores 20:19:00 <LA[Lord]> someday 20:19:09 <kyevan> Belugas: Might as well go all the way and use Visual Basic. 20:19:18 <Belugas> no kidding... as if i was not aware of that, LA[Lord] ;) 20:19:18 <pv2b> visual basic is just crap 20:19:21 <pv2b> delphi is funny 20:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause3> seems i presented my revolutionary concept in the wrong time... 20:19:33 <pv2b> because of its obscurity and its actual relative noncrapness 20:19:34 <Belugas> Visual Basic is insanity 20:19:39 <LA[Lord]> lol 20:20:03 <pv2b> once you get past the fact that it's fucking pascal, i bet delphi isn't half bad actually 20:20:04 <kyevan> Belugas: But if you're going to use a Windows-only tool, might as well use the one that puts money in MS's pockets directly. 20:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> seems the channel is busy with irrelevant flamewars of programming languages 20:20:07 <Belugas> Delphi is my tool at work. and as a band sang a long time ago: "I Know What I Like" 20:20:34 <Gonozal_VIII> oooh that link wasn't about the path thing 20:20:44 <kyevan> Eddi|zuHause3: It's cold outside, the flamewars keep me toasty warm :) 20:21:22 <Belugas> pv2b, Delphi is the tool. The language is Object Pascal 20:21:51 <Belugas> And fucking is not how I would describe neither Pascal or its obejct flavor 20:21:53 <Belugas> by far not 20:21:59 <Gonozal_VIII> prof says eiffel is best 20:21:59 <pv2b> Belugas: delphi = gcc+emacs. object pascal = c++. right. 20:22:01 <kyevan> Delphi's Windows-only, though, so it could be the best tool in the world and fail instantly 20:22:22 <pv2b> Belugas: i didn't use "fucking" to say it was bad. just as an emphatical *<:-) 20:22:30 <Belugas> ho.. 20:22:33 <kyevan> Though I think there was a somewhat-working Free replacement. 20:22:45 <pv2b> wasn't there something called Kylix? 20:22:50 <Belugas> american, aren't you, pv2b? 20:22:52 <pv2b> which was basically delphi for linux? or did i misunderstood. 20:22:55 <pv2b> Belugas: swedish. 20:23:00 <Belugas> fooled me :) 20:23:04 <kyevan> Sure, but Kylix... didn't exactly work well. 20:23:53 <kyevan> Ah, here it is 20:23:54 <kyevan> http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/ 20:24:20 <kyevan> One thing I will say, is that Delphi is a fun word to say :P 20:24:38 <pv2b> yeah, i've heard about fp. i just kinda... don't really care for pascal *<:-) 20:24:52 <pv2b> i mean, it's not that pascal is bad, it's because it's different. 20:25:04 <Belugas> you should, if you want to have some good programming reflexes 20:25:11 <kyevan> And yet you like Python? 20:25:13 <Belugas> i love the structure it imposes on you 20:25:15 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:26 <pv2b> i like python because it's actually pretty freeform 20:25:34 * kyevan spent enough time in whitespace hell... 20:25:46 <pv2b> once you get past the fact that you have to keep your indentation properly. (which you should do anyway in any language) 20:25:51 <kyevan> I like Ruby though, which is fairly similar in many respects 20:25:58 <kyevan> pv2b: Sure, I keep my indentation nice 20:26:08 <kyevan> But you screw up in one place and python explode. 20:26:17 <pv2b> ruby isn't half bad either. it's like perl and python's crazy japanese cousin. 20:26:39 <pv2b> i like the way you can generate functions inline with the pipe syntax 20:26:55 <pv2b> and actually use it all the time for creating your own iteration constructs. it's quite mad *<:-) 20:26:59 <kyevan> Only crazy japanese cousins are unlikely for anyone who isn't japanese :P 20:27:09 <dihedral> pvz: your answer in the forums is kinda missing the asked question 20:27:30 <pv2b> dihedral: "where should the files be?" i think i answered that. 20:27:52 <kyevan> Well, on your hard drive, DUH. 20:28:11 <pv2b> kyevan: i have a flash based computer, you insentitive clod. 20:28:13 <pv2b> (well, not really.) 20:28:38 <Bjarni> <pv2b> Bjarni: maybe you could describe how it works now? <-- well... it has a lot of paths to check for files. Highest priority is files next to the bundle (think old style placement), then ~/Library/OpenTTD then inside the bundle. It looks in more locations that I can't remember, something like /usr/local... so it works with the default linux paths as well (I think... didn't check right now) 20:28:41 <kyevan> s/hard drive/main storage device/ 20:28:44 <dihedral> ill explain in a sec 20:29:00 <pv2b> Bjarni: that's pretty close to the system i suggest 20:29:13 <pv2b> Bjarni: except screenshots->desktop and savegames->documents/openttd 20:29:34 <kyevan> Yeh, those changes seem fairly maclike. 20:30:03 <Bjarni> except you tell that it should write in different dirs. Currently if there is a file called openttd.cfg next to the bundle it writes all files next to the bundle. If not then it writes all files in ~/Documents/OpenTTD 20:30:21 <pv2b> Bjarni: symlinks *<:D 20:30:27 <kyevan> (the ~/Library/ stuff is mostly "DO NOT TOUCH" for 99% of users, so it's not very good to make users look there) 20:30:40 <Bjarni> you want different default locations based on what files you want to save 20:30:53 <Bjarni> kyevan: that's why I picked Documents in the first place 20:30:57 * pv2b actually came up with a sane solution to this which requires practially no code changes. symbolic links! 20:31:16 <kyevan> Does HFS+ support symlinks, though? 20:31:18 <pv2b> sure 20:31:21 <Bjarni> yeah 20:31:21 <kyevan> I think it does, but. 20:31:26 <Bjarni> it's POSIX 20:31:34 <kyevan> Has it always? 20:31:38 <pv2b> the only thing slightly weird with HFS+ is that it's case-insensitive 20:31:40 <pv2b> (but case-preserving) 20:31:49 <pv2b> yeah, symlinks are pretty much a requirement for a sane unix system to work 20:31:52 <kyevan> pv2b: I think that's switchable,a ctually. 20:31:54 <Bjarni> I can't recall OSX ever having links problems 20:32:07 <pv2b> kyevan: i think it is, but then lots of crazy mac stuff brekas 20:32:08 <pv2b> breaks 20:32:14 <kyevan> But, if you do, Mac code breaks horribly. 20:32:17 <kyevan> pv2b: Right :P 20:32:51 * kyevan goes back to driving Gordon Freeman through college) 20:32:56 <Bjarni> you can actually select if your HFS+ should be case sensitive for some reason 20:33:15 <Bjarni> don't ask me why it's an option you have to select while formatting a drive.... 20:33:21 <kyevan> (I got The Sims 2: University for christmas, and somehow wound up creating a Gordon Freeman sim...) 20:33:24 <pv2b> Bjarni: isn't ther esomething equiv to tune2fs? 20:33:55 <Bjarni> there is a lot of stuff available if you know it 20:34:23 <kyevan> Has fuse been ported to OS X, by any chance? 20:34:25 <pv2b> kyevan: yeah 20:34:31 <SpComb> Python! 20:34:39 <pv2b> Bjarni: oh, imagine if you take a case-sensitive volume, and make it case-insensitive 20:34:56 <kyevan> I wish someone would port it to windows... I needs mah sshfs!) 20:34:57 <pv2b> Bjarni: imagine if you have the two files "Lollerskates.txt" and "LOLLERSKATES.TXT" on it. 20:35:02 <pv2b> Bjarni: stuff tends to break. 20:35:13 <kyevan> pv2b: Then you need to go die 20:35:32 <Bjarni> yeah 20:35:36 <kyevan> Having files that differ only in case is TERRIBLE practice, even on case-sensitive file systems :P 20:35:43 <Bjarni> having a file called LOLLERSKATES.TXT.... 20:35:45 <Bjarni> geek :P 20:35:53 <kyevan> That too :P 20:36:00 <pv2b> i've seen some software that comes with a "makefile" and a "Makefile" 20:36:06 <SpComb> oletettavas[B0(http://www.xkcd.com/353/) 20:36:15 <SpComb> grawh 20:36:57 <Gonozal_VIII> it could just attach (1) to the files like ff does when you download stuff with the same name 20:37:22 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: and break file extentions. 20:37:36 <pv2b> and breaking other hardcoded paths. 20:37:40 <pv2b> it's not trivial. 20:37:40 <Gonozal_VIII> before the . 20:38:06 <Gonozal_VIII> download.file and download(1).file 20:38:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:27 <pv2b> that works as long as nothing has a hardcoded path to that. 20:39:18 <Bjarni> it's damn annoying to use something that can decide to avoid naming conflict by adding .1 without telling you 20:39:21 <Bjarni> I tried that once 20:39:31 <Bjarni> I ended up with .png and .png.1 20:40:02 <Bjarni> it didn't tell me in the first place but when I opened the newest file I opened an old one and was like "wtf" 20:40:11 <Bjarni> until I realised what had happened 20:40:43 <Bjarni> funny thing is that I had to remove the .1 before the app would accept the file again >_< 20:41:07 <Bjarni> now all free software is as good as OpenTTD 20:41:12 <Gonozal_VIII> that's stupid^^ 20:41:28 <Bjarni> yeah 20:41:35 <Bjarni> specially because it didn't tell me 20:41:41 <Bjarni> it just did this on it's own 20:42:01 <Bjarni> bbl 20:42:17 <Gonozal_VIII> the (1) stuff also happens without telling but it doesn't change the filetype 20:42:40 <pv2b> the big diff is that changing the filesystem might change some file deep in the system you don't even know about 20:43:46 <Gonozal_VIII> it could generate a log of the resolved conflicts and open it after it's finished 20:44:45 *** lolman [~lolman@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:44:58 <pv2b> true. 20:45:11 <pv2b> not an insurmountable problem then. still not worth botherering with. 20:46:11 *** Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-181-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:50 <LA[Lord]> it seems I've got a problem....I can't draw 8bpp stuff :( 20:49:12 <Gonozal_VIII> why? 20:50:06 <LA[Lord]> dunno, they don't come out nice... 20:50:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: maedhros * r11712 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r9315): Add more house string id ranges to MapGRFStringID so NewGRFs use the proper string ids. 20:50:21 <Belugas> you have to respect the pallette, LA[Lord] 20:50:23 <Belugas> very importnat 20:50:24 <Gonozal_VIII> you have to change the magnification often 20:50:57 <Gonozal_VIII> draw some pixel at 8x, go back to 1x and look at it, zoom back in... 20:51:25 <LA[Lord]> nono I know that...I just don't know how to draw nice things... 20:51:40 <Belugas> ask skidd13 some lessons ;) 20:51:47 <Gonozal_VIII> like i said... zoom around a lot 20:51:52 <LA[Lord]> this should be a lighthouse 20:51:54 <LA[Lord]> http://www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/ohoo.png 20:52:07 <Gonozal_VIII> looks like a bottle^^ 20:52:09 *** G [~njones@202-154-147-109.ubs-dynamic.connections.net.nz] has joined #openttd 20:52:41 <LA[Lord]> lol 20:53:59 * LA[Lord] looks around and sees that Skidd13 is online :P 20:54:13 <skidd13> Hu? Whats up? 20:54:46 <skidd13> looks like a bowling pin to me :D 20:54:51 <LA[Lord]> :d 20:55:03 <Gonozal_VIII> you can also draw it bigger, scale it down and fix everything that doesn't look right 20:55:33 <LA[Lord]> Actually, I had something important to you skidd13 too...wait a mom, I'll try to remember 20:55:35 <Gonozal_VIII> if it's easier for you to draw bigger stuff 20:55:59 <Belugas> search for some real lighthouses, scrutinize them, draw them by hand until you know how they are shaped/constructed 20:56:04 <Belugas> then pixelize your ideas :) 20:56:10 <skidd13> The lightning is ok, but the color is IMO wrong. 20:56:22 <skidd13> Belugas: That is not that easy ;) 20:57:06 <Belugas> ha... well... that's how i do my stuff 20:57:09 <Belugas> but ... 20:57:19 <Belugas> it maybe why i've not released anything :D 20:57:24 <Belugas> 'cause it looks baaaaaad 20:58:48 <LA[Lord]> ok skidd I found it... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28573&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a 20:59:13 <LA[Lord]> I have a next idea for 8bpp replacement project.. 20:59:23 <LA[Lord]> but these graphics aen't all yours? 20:59:36 <dihedral> oh my word - women talk too much on the phone 20:59:46 <dihedral> na - drop the 'on the phone' part of that 21:01:57 <SmatZ> Viewed 262213 times ] 21:01:58 <SmatZ> wow 21:02:14 <SmatZ> that's even more that 262144 21:02:24 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 21:02:38 <Gonozal_VIII> great observation 21:02:41 <SmatZ> :-) 21:02:59 <dihedral> pv2b: you were missing the point because it was generally about the folder 'OpenTTD' currently located in ~/Documents, and not about every single file in that folde 21:03:00 <SmatZ> @base 10 2 262144 21:03:00 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 1000000000000000000 21:03:01 <dihedral> \r 21:03:44 <SmatZ> @base 10 2 262213 21:03:44 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: 1000000000001000101 21:03:57 <dihedral> "putting it in ~/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD is probably the best" <-- why on earth then vote for 'other' and write a 5 page comment that concludes to that? 21:05:14 <Gonozal_VIII> you know all powers of 2? 21:05:21 <dihedral> pv2b: the entire section "Other operating systems" can be ditched, because that is not of interest 21:05:26 <dihedral> it was solely about os x 21:05:37 <Belugas> shhhhhh dihedral, calm down. the guy is entitled to tis opinion 21:05:45 <dihedral> yes 21:05:49 <dihedral> i am not getting at it 21:05:57 <dihedral> i am simply explaining a statement i made earlier on 21:06:25 <dihedral> [21:27] <dihedral> pvz: your answer in the forums is kinda missing the asked question 21:06:56 <dihedral> just so it was not a statement thrown into the channel, but explained as to what i meant 21:09:10 <pv2b> dihedral: i disagreed with the question which assumes everything *should* be in the same folder. 21:09:35 <pv2b> dihedral: sometimes you simply can't answer a question directly. have you stopped beating your wife? 21:09:50 <Gonozal_VIII> no 21:09:55 <Gonozal_VIII> see, direct answer 21:10:07 *** skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A44EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [quit:Ping timeout: Hmm ping sucks :D] 21:10:18 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: true, but the implications that raises can be unintentional. 21:10:33 <dihedral> but you cut it down to one statement, which made clear (as far as i understood it) that ~/Library/Application Support/ was your choice for 'best' place 21:10:36 <ln-> Bjarni: is all the stuff inside the bundle now? 21:10:44 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:51 <pv2b> dihedral: 'best' place, but i don't think savegames and screenshots should go in there 21:11:40 <dihedral> i stopped beating my wife - i started hitting my dog now 21:11:53 <dihedral> nobody asked for the second part of that 21:11:57 <dihedral> :-P 21:12:08 <dihedral> ok - i am splitting hairs on that one 21:13:41 <pv2b> so yeah, put everythign in application support, except for the savegames and the screenshots 21:13:47 <pv2b> and make it look in the global library too 21:13:49 <pv2b> and i'm happy *<:-) 21:14:33 <dihedral> again - that was not the point of Bjarni's question :-P (yes - i know - you disagree with the entire question) 21:16:26 <joosa_> I have something to say 21:16:33 <joosa_> have a beer and relax 21:16:54 <dihedral> i have something to say too 21:17:13 * dihedral slaps joosa for trying to calm him down, where in fact he is calm and relaxed :-P 21:17:21 <dihedral> nah - just kidding :-P 21:17:26 <joosa_> :-D 21:17:49 <dihedral> if dih uses smilies, he is relaxed 21:17:52 <pv2b> also, i don't drink alcohol, you insensitive slod. 21:17:56 <pv2b> *<;-) 21:18:01 <joosa_> I love it when people include the nose in their smilies 21:18:01 <dihedral> LOL 21:18:12 <dihedral> :-------) 21:18:15 <joosa_> :âââââD 21:18:18 *** Stoffe [~mirc@89.233.243.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:32 <dihedral> :(THE NOSE)D 21:18:52 <joosa_> but I'm too dunk to take part in the conversatoon in any other level but discussing the noses 21:18:59 <joosa_> dunk indeed 21:20:54 <pv2b> joosa_: it's a habit i picked up many yeaqrs ago 21:21:06 <joosa_> yeaqrs ubdeed 21:21:17 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 21:21:40 <Gonozal_VIII> is there a drunk - english dictionary somewhere? 21:21:41 <pv2b> ubdeed *<:D 21:21:49 <pv2b> joosa_++ 21:25:17 <joosa_> nose 21:25:17 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:17 <pv2b> actually i don't use noses for *<:D, i use them for *<:-) etc though. 21:25:17 <joosa_> :++) 21:25:17 <pv2b> i should play some ttd. anyone want to come? *<:-) 21:25:17 <joosa_> me too, but I have difficulties convincing my friends to play 21:25:36 <peter__> that smiley is bloody stupid 21:26:01 *** joosa_ is now known as joosa 21:26:05 <pv2b> peter__: i disagree. it's perfectly festive. 21:26:17 <joosa> :++) is not, however 21:26:23 <pv2b> ah, all right. 21:26:27 <pv2b> :++) makes little sense 21:26:39 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know what smiley it was supposed to be, i see a * and the rest converts to a guy with a magician hat 21:26:51 <joosa> maybe the hat has a * 21:26:58 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: tip. the hat is red. 21:27:13 <Gonozal_VIII> aaaah 21:27:31 <peter__> fire capacitators! 21:28:15 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:28:25 <pv2b> but in order to play, i need ot find a a nice server to play on, and in that case i probably should at least make sure my simple server filterer utility is at least at a useable state 21:29:25 <Belugas> [16:31] <pv2b> peter__: i disagree. it's perfectly festive. <--- well.. now that you've told us... It reminded me more of a clown than a Santa ;) 21:29:55 <pv2b> that's what you get for using lossy compression 21:30:07 <pv2b> i thought you'd have picked up on it since tt-forums also has holiday smileys 21:30:22 <Gonozal_VIII> and i don't see how the us guys connect santa with christmas 21:30:44 *** Stoffe [~mirc@89.233.243.226] has joined #openttd 21:30:57 <pv2b> i'm from sweden. we have a similar tradition of "tomtar" which has merged into the same image as santa claus. 21:31:12 <pv2b> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomte 21:31:43 <Gonozal_VIII> those are underpants gnomes! 21:32:27 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has joined #openttd 21:32:36 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: except they actually have a workable business plan 21:32:43 <peter__> Belugas, yeah, that's what i thought 21:33:21 <Belugas> heheh 21:33:45 <Gonozal_VIII> 1. protect children 21:33:45 <Gonozal_VIII> 2. ??? 21:33:45 <Gonozal_VIII> 3. profit! 21:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, the ttdpatch wiki seems to be down... 21:38:15 <glx> try wiki2 21:38:45 <dihedral> good night ladies 21:38:48 <LA[Lord]> wiki2 is up 21:38:50 * dihedral grins 21:38:51 <Gonozal_VIII> night 21:38:59 <Gonozal_VIII> <-- not a lady 21:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause3> that reminds me of the simpsons, where homer joins the stonemasons 21:39:08 <LA[Lord]> good night boys girls and dih 21:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause3> "and this is the real number for the emergency call" 21:39:29 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 21:40:19 *** dihedral [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-226-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]] 21:40:19 <Gonozal_VIII> we do! 21:41:28 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:17 <Belugas> time for me to go home. So good night everyone, if i do not come back 21:43:24 <SmatZ> night Belugas 21:43:28 <Gonozal_VIII> night 21:43:57 <pv2b> nn Belugas 21:44:39 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EA48.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 21:49:11 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:10 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@81.171.98.107] has joined #openttd 21:50:44 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] 22:00:51 *** Mucht_home [~Martin@213-153-48-43.strobl.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has joined #openttd 22:02:14 *** Farden123 [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:05:14 *** peter__ [~petern@217.151.109.242] has quit [Quit: peter__] 22:09:42 *** Farden [~jk3farden@213.186.38.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:09:42 *** Farden123 is now known as Farden 22:15:38 <Gonozal_VIII> trains on n24 22:16:35 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:17:30 <Gonozal_VIII> hovertrains :-) 22:17:43 <pv2b> hovercraft on rails? 22:17:47 <pv2b> what is the world coming to. 22:18:07 <Gonozal_VIII> not really.. 22:18:17 <Gonozal_VIII> it's about a factory where they build wagons 22:18:26 <pv2b> hovering wagons? 22:18:35 <Gonozal_VIII> they move them around on hovering plates 22:18:59 <pv2b> holy rail wagons on hovercraft batman. 22:19:15 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 22:19:37 <Gonozal_VIII> and now they talk about a 1:50 lego airport 22:19:54 <pv2b> with hovercraft? 22:20:02 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 22:20:12 <Gonozal_VIII> hoverplanes^^ 22:20:18 <pv2b> what a stupid idea 22:20:26 <pv2b> why would anyone want a hovering airplane? 22:20:36 <Gonozal_VIII> because! 22:21:08 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm it could start/land on water without the higher friction 22:21:36 <pv2b> uh..... yeah. 22:21:49 <pv2b> got some news. flying boats were a flop. 22:22:43 <Gonozal_VIII> i takes more power to start from water... but not if you hover above it^^ 22:23:53 <Gonozal_VIII> hoverplanes could land on water or on grass or asphalt or in the desert without problems :-) 22:24:11 <pv2b> planes already land on grass and asphalt. 22:24:18 <pv2b> without ahving to hover. 22:24:55 <pv2b> in the air such a system would prolly just be dead weight 22:25:10 <Gonozal_VIII> a heavy plane would sink into the ground on grass and break its landing gear 22:25:47 <Gonozal_VIII> yay for hoverplanes! 22:25:58 <Gonozal_VIII> it was your idea anyways ;-) 22:26:00 <pv2b> so bring a sparel anding gear along. i bet it's lighter than making the fucker hover 22:26:06 <pv2b> spare landing gear. 22:26:44 <pv2b> or just d rop whatever you want to deliver on parachutes. 22:27:07 <Gonozal_VIII> you have to land eventually 22:27:20 <pv2b> you'll find a landing strip eventually. 22:28:00 <Gonozal_VIII> yay for hoverplanes! 22:28:04 <pv2b> no 22:28:05 <pv2b> *<:D 22:29:09 <Gonozal_VIII> they're cheating with the lego constructions 22:29:19 <Gonozal_VIII> they use wires 22:29:28 <pv2b> what cheaters. 22:34:33 <LA[Lord]> ok 22:34:42 <LA[Lord]> I completed another version of lighthouse 22:34:44 <LA[Lord]> http://www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/ohoo.png 22:35:24 <Gonozal_VIII> is that based on a real lighthouse? 22:35:29 <LA[Lord]> no 22:35:33 <LA[Lord]> should it? 22:35:34 <pv2b> that looks... military 22:35:50 <Gonozal_VIII> what's that blue stuff around the middle part? 22:35:56 <pv2b> alien blood 22:36:02 <pv2b> clearly. 22:36:12 <LA[Lord]> windows, gonozal, they're called windows 22:36:21 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm doesn't look like windows 22:36:22 <pv2b> blue windows? 22:36:31 <LA[Lord]> why not? 22:36:40 <LA[Lord]> ye i know they suck 22:36:51 <LA[Lord]> but I had to show whole buliding 22:37:03 <LA[Lord]> coz I go to sleep now I think 22:37:16 <Gonozal_VIII> looks mor like some blue flags that stick out of the wall 22:37:24 <pv2b> or alien blood. 22:37:29 <Gonozal_VIII> or alien blood 22:37:38 <SmatZ> or steps 22:39:03 <LA[Lord]> Anyway, I guess I can change the colours and do sth about those "windows". So wait for some time, I make this and then go to sleep 22:40:17 <Gonozal_VIII> they just don't look like they are in the walls, it looks like something that sticks out 22:41:23 <pv2b> clearly anti-alien spikes. 22:41:38 <Gonozal_VIII> with alien blood on them ;-) 22:41:40 <pv2b> yes. 22:42:29 <pv2b> the red stuff on the bottom is human blood. remains from would be human intruders. 22:42:41 <pv2b> if you look carefully you can see the skulls and bones. 22:42:48 <pv2b> little white specks in a pool of red blood. 22:42:54 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 22:43:34 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl51B65D9A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 22:43:38 <Gonozal_VIII> and the green stuff around the base? different type of alien blood? 22:44:09 <qball> ab-complex 22:45:00 <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: no, that's just grass. 22:45:11 <pv2b> grows pretty well since it's so fertilised. 22:45:13 <LA[Lord]> it's called grass, gonozal, grass 22:45:17 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B788DF.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:19 <Gonozal_VIII> ^^ 22:45:23 <LA[Lord]> with alien blood 22:45:44 <Gonozal_VIII> yes i know.. grass grows very fast with blood on it 22:45:51 <pv2b> it's not actually a light house either 22:45:55 <pv2b> it's the ultimate anti alien death raay 22:46:08 <pv2b> sending a bomber to blow up a ufo is so inefficient you see 22:46:13 <LA[Lord]> Codename: Black Mesa West 22:46:16 <Gonozal_VIII> i have some spots with very healthy grass around my house 22:46:19 <pv2b> especially since they fly so slow in the new openttd version 22:46:24 <pv2b> compared to other aircraft that is 22:47:23 <pavel1269> 23:46 <Gonozal_VIII> i have some spots with very healthy grass around my house --- around your hause ... like this: http://www.national-geographic.cz/images/ngcom/0805/bazina_1.jpg 22:48:04 <Gonozal_VIII> what? 22:48:29 <Bjarni> <ln-> Bjarni: is all the stuff inside the bundle now? <-- all the stuff we distribute and that's needed to make the game work (lng files, grf files and so on). The end user will still have to add files outside the bundle but upgrading is just replacing the bundle 22:48:51 <Bjarni> updating is just drag-n-drop what the user sees as a single file... couldn't be easier 22:49:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:19 <pavel1269> gn 22:49:22 <Bjarni> it can even execute directly from the dmg file but it would be silly to mount it each time you want to play ;) 22:49:24 <Gonozal_VIII> night 22:49:25 <ln-> does the end user ever need to modify the stuff inside the bundle? 22:49:31 <Bjarni> no 22:49:35 <Bjarni> night pavel1269 22:49:44 <qball> hmm 22:49:58 *** pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [] 22:50:46 <Bjarni> the bundle is designed to make it as easy as possible for the user. Modifying files inside a bundle isn't a trivial thing (unless you know how bundles work) so it's designed in a way that you can but it's not intended to do so 22:51:46 <pv2b> Bjarni: nice. i've alwayss been annoyed at how upgrading sucks 22:51:52 <pv2b> you had to manually replacfe files and stuff 22:51:53 <pv2b> and merge 22:52:20 <pv2b> why is there still a media directory outside the bundle? 22:52:28 <pv2b> and scenario/heightmap empty directories 22:52:33 <Bjarni> I got tired of people failing to upgrade correctly and then they showed up here telling that it failed to open 22:53:19 <Bjarni> you mean in the dmg file? 22:53:26 <pv2b> yeha 22:53:28 <pv2b> yeah. 22:54:24 <Bjarni> hmm 22:54:35 <Bjarni> we don't need the media file on OSX 22:54:39 <Bjarni> *files 22:55:24 <Bjarni> I guess they got introduced during the makefile rewrite 22:55:35 <pv2b> and the scenario/heightmap stuff shouldn't be in that directory anyway 22:55:42 <pv2b> it should be wherever you decide to put it 22:56:20 <Bjarni> I haven't figured out a good installer for the scenarios yet 22:56:32 <pv2b> but the directory is empty anyway 22:56:34 <pv2b> at least in the dmg 22:56:57 <Bjarni> that's because once again I forgot that the files aren't in the checkout and has to be added manually 22:57:06 <Bjarni> which is a pain to do :s 22:57:14 <pv2b> ah. 22:57:36 * Bjarni just got an idea 22:57:43 <pv2b> stick them in the bundle and copy them to the user direcftory at runtime 22:57:50 <Bjarni> I could add adding those files to my new release script 22:58:34 * Bjarni decides to do so 22:59:00 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:33 <LA[Lord]> ok..now can Bjarni too comment new alien blood stains @ www.hot.ee/madisaasmae/ohoo.png 22:59:38 <LA[Lord]> I updated it :) 23:00:16 <Bjarni> looks.... different 23:00:20 <pv2b> looks better. 23:00:26 <Gonozal_VIII> yes better 23:00:28 <pv2b> the base grass is still a bit mismatched 23:00:32 <pv2b> what's the red stuff? 23:00:39 <Bjarni> blood 23:00:39 <Gonozal_VIII> the windows look like they're in the wall now... 23:01:29 <Gonozal_VIII> the concrete wall still looks very massive 23:01:40 <LA[Lord]> it is stairs, gonozal, stairs 23:01:44 <pv2b> of course, it's a military death ray. 23:01:58 <Gonozal_VIII> stairs? 23:02:11 <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't look like stairs at all 23:02:14 <LA[Lord]> the former windows 23:02:29 <Bjarni> <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't look like stairs at all <-- they do to me 23:02:33 <qball> if windows look odd, call them stairs 23:02:38 <LA[Lord]> Gonozal_VIII> doesn't look like stairs at all that's because I can't draw 23:02:59 <Bjarni> then it's really good that you make grf files 23:03:01 <Gonozal_VIII> ah the windows... must look closer for that 23:03:16 <Bjarni> they will blend in with the majority of grf files then 23:03:30 * qball wants 32bit 23:03:43 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-171-87-247.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 23:03:46 * qball remembers playing openttd-32bit 23:04:09 * LA[Lord] wonders why qball doesn't do it now 23:04:10 * Bjarni recalls openttd-32bit to be faster than openttd-8bit 23:04:18 <pv2b> what is openttd-32bit? *<:-) 23:04:25 <LA[Lord]> 32bpp 23:04:29 <Bjarni> OpenTTD with 32 bit graphics 23:04:33 <Gonozal_VIII> wasn't when i tested it bjarni 23:04:35 <Gonozal_VIII> much slower 23:04:38 <Bjarni> it wasn't playable though 23:04:53 <Gonozal_VIII> with the optimized blitter 23:04:54 <Bjarni> but screen drawing was much faster 23:04:55 <LA[Lord]> but it is now 23:05:06 <Gonozal_VIII> sloooow 23:05:11 <Bjarni> but that was the old 32 bit graphics... work stopped on it and we started over 23:05:15 <Bjarni> I can't remember why 23:05:29 <LA[Lord]> maybe because the pixel row error? 23:05:41 <qball> it worked pretty good, and looked good, the parts that where 32bit 23:05:43 <LA[Lord]> your blog says a lot of things 23:05:58 <Bjarni> I have a blog? 23:06:07 <LA[Lord]> developers have 23:06:12 <LA[Lord]> blog.openttd.org 23:06:49 <LA[Lord]> although it seems only truelight used it 23:07:32 <Bjarni> that could explain why I didn't know it 23:07:39 <Bjarni> btw I lack a login for it :/ 23:07:44 <Bjarni> so it's for sure not mine 23:08:04 <LA[Lord]> I guess you can request a login... 23:08:14 <LA[Lord]> you're a dev after all 23:08:28 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like blogs 23:08:33 <LA[Lord]> and belugas has written too there 23:08:37 <Bjarni> TrueLight retired so now nobody writes in it anymore 23:08:43 <Bjarni> the question is if we should keep it 23:09:03 <Bjarni> last entry was written half a year ago 23:09:07 <pv2b> yay. i get XML from game data. 23:09:20 <pv2b> mostly valid. just need to make sure some strings are xml escaped. 23:11:03 <LA[Lord]> ok..anyway, I go to sleep now 23:11:06 <LA[Lord]> good night 23:11:18 <Gonozal_VIII> 32bpp tubular bridge looks glassy... i thought it was some kind of metal cage thing 23:11:25 <Gonozal_VIII> night 23:11:38 *** LA[Lord] [~chatzilla@ip101.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]] 23:12:05 *** Mucht_home [~Martin@213-153-48-43.strobl.dyn.salzburg-online.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:17:48 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:11 *** XeryusTC [~irc@cc480157-b.sneek1.fr.home.nl] has joined #openttd 23:20:23 <Gonozal_VIII> for some "is there a way to..." questions i just want to reply with "yes" :-) 23:25:17 <Bjarni> is there a way to learn how to pick up rich girls without too much hassle? 23:25:27 <Gonozal_VIII> no :-) 23:25:43 <Bjarni> damn you :P 23:25:59 <Gonozal_VIII> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=35494 23:26:00 <Bjarni> at least your answer is trustworthy 23:29:09 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd 23:29:25 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@53560EE5.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: I'm a brain. In a vat. On the wrong planet] 23:29:46 <valhallasw> Gonozal_VIII: that is sooooo dalestan-ish :P 23:30:09 <valhallasw> and Bjarni, check wikihow.com; they probably have an article about that 23:30:52 <Bjarni> but is it working? 23:31:14 <Bjarni> and can I be sure that her mafia father will not hunt me down afterwards? 23:32:13 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:32:22 <valhallasw> there's probably an article about that, too 23:32:37 <Gonozal_VIII> you didn't say anything about not being killed afterwards 23:33:49 <valhallasw> I mean 23:33:54 <valhallasw> there's an article about "How to Pretend to Be a Girl" 23:34:50 <Gonozal_VIII> can't be too hard, there are lots of "girls" on the intarweb 23:35:02 * valhallasw points to Gonozal_VIII 23:36:00 <Gonozal_VIII> :O how did you find out that i'm a young, rich, hot looking girl that only pretends to be poor and male :O 23:37:01 <Bjarni> http://www.wikihow.com/Drive-a-Steam-Locomotive <-- heh... that description can't be used to drive out locomotives :P 23:37:15 <Bjarni> *our 23:37:17 <qball> Gonozal_VIII: drawing flames doesn't make you "hot looking" 23:38:59 <Bjarni> I like the warning... you are not allowed to use the info in the article as it would be not only dangerous, but also classified as theft and trespassing 23:39:05 <Bjarni> best article ever 23:39:18 <Bjarni> info is no good (here) and you aren't allowed to use the content of it 23:42:04 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:31 <Bjarni> http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Rich-Woman-to-Date <-- hahaha... there really is an article for it xD 23:45:33 *** DeGhost [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 23:45:57 <Bjarni> warning: You might end up marrying a woman that you do not love. This is a good recipe for an unhappy life <--- hehe 23:47:30 <Bjarni> hahaha.... "How to Get Rich Easily" 23:47:34 <Bjarni> 7. Receive a large inheritance. 23:47:46 <Bjarni> gee... I never would have figured that one out on my own :P 23:49:04 <valhallasw> xD 23:50:57 <Gonozal_VIII> Play the lottery with a group <-- so stupid 23:52:11 <Gonozal_VIII> no matter if you play alone or in a group or whatever your chances are always the same 23:53:23 <Bjarni> I will not actually do what it says 23:53:47 <Bjarni> if there really was a web page telling how to get rich quickly without doing shit then everybody would be rich 23:53:51 <Bjarni> that's just not how it works 23:54:21 <Gonozal_VIII> well... 23:54:22 <Gonozal_VIII> [00:47:34] Bjarni: 7. Receive a large inheritance. 23:54:25 <Gonozal_VIII> that works... 23:54:30 <Bjarni> yeah 23:55:01 <Bjarni> my granddad once inherited enough money to buy a new car. 23:55:32 <Bjarni> turned out that a relative who he had never heard about moved to USA and had died of old age without any children 23:55:33 <Gonozal_VIII> from the guy in the usa you never even knew that he existed 23:55:45 <Bjarni> ... 23:55:54 <Bjarni> I guess I told you guys before 23:56:14 <Gonozal_VIII> yes you did 23:56:38 <Bjarni> congratulations 23:56:45 <Bjarni> Gonozal_VIII: you passed the memory test 23:56:47 <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes i remember stuff 23:56:59 <Gonozal_VIII> at random 23:57:00 <Bjarni> how about remembering useful stuff? 23:57:10 <Gonozal_VIII> that's not how it works 23:57:16 <Bjarni> I know 23:57:24 <Bjarni> so I just remember everything 23:57:37 <Bjarni> like.... 23:57:43 <Bjarni> you are from the south 23:58:01 <Gonozal_VIII> south? 23:58:12 <Gonozal_VIII> depends on south of what^^ 23:58:12 <Bjarni> you live south of me 23:58:41 <Sacro> I'm jammin 23:58:45 <Bjarni> there are two groups of people in here 23:58:47 <Sacro> and i hope you like jammin too 23:58:56 *** Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-158-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: www.XLhost.de )] 23:58:58 <Sacro> Bjarni: normal people and the dutch? 23:59:01 <Gonozal_VIII> you're dutch and i'm austrian so yes... south... 23:59:09 <Bjarni> people living south of me and people who can read this: "hej med dig.... Jeg hÃ¥ber, at du kan lÊse dette" 23:59:15 <Gonozal_VIII> there's not much north for you 23:59:27 * Bjarni slaps Sacro 23:59:33 <Sacro> sorry, danish 23:59:57 <Bjarni> NOW YOU MADE GONOZAL_VIII CONFUSE DANISH AND DUTCH AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!