Config
Log for #openttd on 6th February 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:33  <fjb> But please paint new graphics for the markers...
00:00:48  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm no artist...
00:00:59  <fjb> Me neither.
00:01:18  <Gonozal_VIII> well... i'm no coder either
00:01:45  <Chrill> neither is the CIA
00:01:52  <Chrill> but they'll arrest me anyways
00:02:05  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
00:02:25  <Chrill> CIA will arrest me
00:02:34  <Gonozal_VIII> ok...
00:03:37  <Gonozal_VIII> first i would have to silence all those warnings..
00:03:52  <fjb> Be carefull, CIA is always on this chanel.
00:04:20  <Gonozal_VIII> comparison between signed and unsigned integer <-- stuff like that... easy... but there are some where i don't even know what they mean, even less how to fix them
00:05:08  <fjb> Then don't care about it. That are just warnings. Who did ever care for warnings?
00:05:18  <Gonozal_VIII> warnings suck
00:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> if it compiles, ship it ;)
00:07:00  <fjb> Yeah. Let the users find the bugs. Then only take care for the bugs they found.
00:07:30  <Gonozal_VIII> trunk compiles without warnings... i want to keep it that way
00:08:42  <fjb> Now you found the reason why some patches didn't make it into the trunk.
00:10:39  <Gonozal_VIII> for some reason my explorer froze...
00:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, they did it right ;)
00:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, this sarah connor episode was weird...
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00:12:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> oohh, i killed him ;)
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00:14:32  <Gonozal_VIII> murderer!
00:14:34  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
00:14:37  <fjb> You killed him with Sarah Connor? Strange...
00:14:57  <Gonozal_VIII> what's a sarah connor episode?
00:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> Terminator - The Sarah Connor Chronicles
00:15:43  <Gonozal_VIII> never heard of that..
00:16:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> new series, started about a month ago
00:17:35  <Gonozal_VIII> Downloaded 5 times <-- that's not much
00:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have the wrong source ;)
00:18:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have over 30000 peers
00:18:35  <Gonozal_VIII> Gonozal_VIIIIN^^
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00:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh, that
00:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> you make weird jumps of topics ;)
00:19:28  <Gonozal_VIII> it's irc... you're supposed to do that here
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00:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm supposed to go to bed... but do i do that?
00:21:37  <Gonozal_VIII> of course not
00:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm missing a primeval episode...
00:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> oh... there...
00:27:29  <Gonozal_VIII> why the hell do i have transparent windows now
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00:28:17  <fjb> You installed Vista?
00:28:35  <Gonozal_VIII> no!
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00:56:55  <Gonozal_VIII> warning: converting to non-pointer type `uint16' from NULL
00:57:07  <Gonozal_VIII> what's the int value of null? 0?
00:58:16  <fjb> Yes.
00:58:48  <Gonozal_VIII> so if i replace those NULLs with 0 it should do the same and silence the warning?
00:58:52  <fjb> At least most of the time.
00:59:52  <fjb> No, NULL is a pointer to nothing. Pointers are 32 or 64 bit. How big is int?
01:00:13  <Gonozal_VIII> i would guess uint16 is 16 bit^^
01:00:22  <fjb> And is a pointer to nothing really represented by 0? Most of the time it is, but is that always the case?
01:00:47  <fjb> There is part of your trouble.
01:00:59  <fjb> Why does the pointer get converted?
01:02:05  <Gonozal_VIII> those seem to be no real pointers but enumified sprites and strings
01:02:50  <Gonozal_VIII> so i use str_null instead of null :-)
01:03:14  <fjb> What is that?
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01:05:04  <Gonozal_VIII> blah...
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01:05:50  <Gonozal_VIII> the lines in question seem to be inside an array of widgets
01:06:14  <Gonozal_VIII> {WWT_PANEL,    RESIZE_NONE,  7,   0,  57,  14,  45, NULL,                      STR_NULL},
01:08:13  <fjb> Oh, that is bad. What kind off array does get initialized by that?
01:08:33  <Gonozal_VIII> static const Widget _build_routemarker_widgets[] = {
01:09:20  <Rubidium> fjb: what is bad about it?
01:09:24  <Gonozal_VIII> 8 times null inside and 8 warnings about null
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01:10:20  <fjb> Rubidium: Is it always sure that a pointer has the same size as an integer?
01:10:24  <Rubidium> except the use of NULL
01:10:34  <Rubidium> fjb: no
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01:11:02  <fjb> Rubidium: That is bad about NULL in that array.
01:11:07  <Gonozal_VIII> wouldn't work too well with 16 bit pointers i guess
01:11:19  <Rubidium> there must not be a pointer in there
01:11:45  <Rubidium> and I don't know what you took as example, but it wouldn't have used NULL
01:11:46  <fjb> Rubidium: That's why I said bad.
01:11:52  <Gonozal_VIII> changing it to str_null would silence the warning... but is that the same?
01:12:07  <Rubidium> anyhow, it isn't an array
01:12:14  <Rubidium> so NULL could've been valid
01:12:40  <Rubidium> if the 8th variable of the struct would've been a pointer
01:12:41  <Gonozal_VIII> not array? looks like an array... but i suck at c(++)
01:12:45  <fjb> Yes, it could, we have to know what that gets assigned to.
01:12:58  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: already told that
01:13:08  <Rubidium> s/://
01:13:30  <fjb> NULL is bad in an array of 16bit integers...
01:13:42  <Gonozal_VIII> well, i'll just try str_null and see what happens
01:14:07  <Rubidium> fjb: unless you have a 16 bit processor ;)
01:15:10  <fjb> Rubidium: Unless your prozessor uses 16bit pointers.
01:15:31  <fjb> 8086 uses 20bit pointers.
01:15:47  <Rubidium> better use 23 bits pointer then ;)
01:15:50  <Gonozal_VIII> well, the warnings are gone
01:16:12  <fjb> 23 is always good.
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01:53:39  <Gonozal_VIII> In member function `int CYapfCostRailT<Types>::RoutemarkerCost(typename Types::NodeList::Titem&, TileIndex, Trackdir) [with Types = CYapfRail_TypesT<CYapfAnyDepotRail2, CFollowTrackRailNo90, CRailNodeListTrackDir, CYapfDestinationAnyDepotRailT, CYapfFollowAnyDepotRailT>]':
01:53:50  <Gonozal_VIII> instantiated from `bool CYapfCostRailT<Types>::PfCalcCost(typename Types::NodeList::Titem&, const typename Types::TrackFollower*) [with Types = CYapfRail_TypesT<CYapfAnyDepotRail2, CFollowTrackRailNo90, CRailNodeListTrackDir, CYapfDestinationAnyDepotRailT, CYapfFollowAnyDepotRailT>]'
01:53:55  <Gonozal_VIII> what's that?
01:54:56  <fjb> Two different templates with the same name.
01:55:28  <glx> you miss the important part :)
01:55:45  <glx> (the warning or the error)
01:56:24  <Gonozal_VIII> there is no warning or error, just lots of that stuff
01:56:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, and the last bit is the warning/error
01:56:49  <fjb> That are templates, kind of generic type.
01:57:23  <Gonozal_VIII> http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/warnings.txt
01:58:10  <glx> you removed the important lies
01:58:13  <glx> *lines
01:58:21  <Gonozal_VIII> no?
01:59:34  <glx> because these lines don't tell anything
01:59:49  <Gonozal_VIII> yay, than i understand them correctly
02:00:02  <Gonozal_VIII> -a+e
02:01:05  <glx> show the full error log
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02:02:25  <Gonozal_VIII> trying..
02:03:13  <Gonozal_VIII> but i didn't remove anything from those lines, only the other warnings that i already fixed
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02:14:12  <Gonozal_VIII> http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/warnings.txt
02:14:18  <Gonozal_VIII> now it's the full output
02:15:33  <glx> c:/OpenTTD/test/source/src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp:137: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
02:15:51  <glx> that's the warning causing all the output
02:15:51  <Gonozal_VIII> fixed that with (int)
02:16:00  <Gonozal_VIII> really? O_o
02:17:06  <Gonozal_VIII> oh... thanks then^^
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02:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> i told you... the last line is the warning...
02:27:35  <Gonozal_VIII> already fixed that, didn't think that all the other crazy stuff was about that
02:28:25  <Gonozal_VIII> "fixed" i don't know if casting it to int really fixes it... at least the warnings are gone
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02:31:00  <Gonozal_VIII> now the linking failed :S
02:31:06  <Gonozal_VIII> undefined reference to bla
02:31:41  <glx> (int) is the easy way ;)
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02:34:27  <Gonozal_VIII> yay, finally compiled without warnings and seems to work
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02:42:41  <Gonozal_VIII> yay 2 new warnings and 3 errors
02:43:11  <Gonozal_VIII> invalid conversion from int to windowclass
02:43:28  <Gonozal_VIII> cannot convert const widget* to windowclass
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02:44:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12068 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix(r12067): forgot a return
02:46:41  <Sacro> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/25/diebold-voting-machi.html XD
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03:00:08  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaah min and default size
03:01:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12069 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature[newGRF]: Specify the purchase, rail and road description of a bridge.
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03:02:53  <Gonozal_VIII> so from now on the brick viaduct is called brick viaduct :-)
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03:05:21  <Belugas> o_O
03:05:28  <Gonozal_VIII> not?
03:05:50  <Gonozal_VIII> misunderstood it then...
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03:07:34  <Belugas> you can spedify the name you want it to be
03:07:49  <Belugas> it culd be "life on mars" if you wish
03:08:02  <Gonozal_VIII> then it is what i thought :-)
03:08:19  <Belugas> and as a bonus, the 2 last bridges of ottd can be named as you wish too, which was not possible until then
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03:11:51  <fjb> Which are the bridges that are not in TTDP?
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03:15:53  <Belugas> the 2 last ones
03:15:54  <Belugas> o_O
03:17:12  <fjb> Hm, tubular bridges.
03:34:35  <Tefad> hey guys i'm requesting ttdx music for this guy
03:34:39  <Tefad> http://www.baltimorebarcams.com/vgmusic/
03:35:18  <Gonozal_VIII> how are the grfs compiled from the source, there are no nfo or pcx files?
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03:38:33  <Gonozal_VIII> oh.. are they just rename from that .svn-base thingy?
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03:48:07  <glx> they are in svn://svn.openttd.org/extra
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04:50:09  <DaleStan> Any newgrf devs around now? And if so, what does Open do for bit 4 of varaction2 variable 1B?
04:58:44  <Gonozal_VIII> you're expecting a bit too much for that time
05:04:13  <DaleStan> I suspected as much, but figured it was at least worth asking.
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06:51:18  <DJ-Nekkid> DaleStan: i thought you were the newgrf expert :)
06:51:42  <Gonozal_VIII> not for open
06:51:58  <DaleStan> In Patch. Not in Open.
06:52:27  <DJ-Nekkid> hehe...
06:52:29  <DaleStan> Open's newgrf support is about as well documented as Patch's code. Not at all.
06:52:42  <DJ-Nekkid> no doubt...
06:53:28  <Gonozal_VIII> as far as i understand, the code is not complete and gets changed as soon as some grf doesn't work as it should
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07:23:33  <peter1138> Arrrr!
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07:23:56  <Gonozal_VIII> what did you break now?
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08:10:43  <TinoDidriksen> http://dl.ziza.ru/other/022008/01/pics/02_pics.jpg
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08:56:40  <yorick> I'm trying to get the station track reservation in your YAPP, but its not redrawn when a train goes over it :(
08:56:49  <yorick> michi_cc
08:57:26  <yorick> I do not have enough cpp knowledge to get that working
08:58:10  <yorick> I mean the newgrf changing station when reserved
09:01:45  <yorick> or maybe I do
09:02:05  <yorick> removes if pbs_debug_level >= 2
09:02:22  <yorick> et voila :)
09:03:25  * yorick is talking to himself
09:10:24  <yorick> it works :)
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09:14:59  <yorick> hello peter
09:15:43  <yorick> I have the PBS station reserved prop for newgrfs working
09:16:15  <peter1138> Yes, it was a simple patch...
09:16:39  <yorick> however, it did not redraw the station ;)
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09:19:37  <peter1138> *nod*
09:19:47  <peter1138> It did with pbs debugging ;)
09:20:01  <yorick> yes
09:20:05  <yorick> but not without ;)
09:20:21  <yorick> it works if pbs debug is set to 2 or higher
09:20:57  <yorick> I have just removed the if and let it be marked dirty in all cases
09:29:45  <yorick> away now
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09:37:24  <peter1138> RoR.bin: pcm_params.c:2351: sndrv_pcm_hw_params: Assertion `err >= 0' failed.
09:37:24  <peter1138> (0) : fatal error C9999: *** exception during compilation ***
09:37:26  <peter1138> ^ ARGH
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09:43:12  <Yorick> whats RoR?
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09:52:35  <Yorick> I have a question.
09:54:31  <Yorick> how can it be that this savegame is eating 90% of CPU? http://rapidshare.de/files/38504025/Mega_Transport__1_Okt_1986.sav.html
09:54:47  <Noldo> does it have a lot of ships?
09:55:18  <Yorick> only 50
09:55:53  <Noldo> how big is the map?
09:56:14  <Yorick> 2048x2048
09:56:28  <Yorick> just download it
09:56:40  <Noldo> I don't have the game here
09:56:54  <Noldo> ships on a big map are very cpu heavy
09:57:08  <Yorick> when I try to stop them, it drops to 80%
09:59:24  <Yorick> when was tonnes renamed to kg and litres to m3?
09:59:35  <Yorick> ait
09:59:46  <Yorick> since I set it to SI instead of metric
10:00:36  <keyweed> how many furlongs per fortnight does your train do?
10:01:16  <Yorick> what?
10:02:20  <keyweed> 1 (furlongs / fortnight) = 0.000166309524 m / s
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10:51:17  <redmonkey> hi. how many squares is a train able to look ahead (to find a drive-through service depot for example)?
10:51:35  <Noldo> what?
10:52:36  <Yorick> yapf.look_ahead or something
10:53:18  <Yorick> for yapf, it looks ahead 10 signals by defaul
10:53:19  <Yorick> t
10:53:35  <Yorick> drive-through service depots don't exist
10:53:51  <Yorick> it can look ahead endlessly, I think
10:54:10  <redmonkey> ___/===^===\___
10:54:28  <redmonkey> i meant a depot placed like this
10:54:31  <Yorick> oh
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10:57:51  <redmonkey> i have a train here with a reliability of 0% but it wouldn't like to go in such a depot
10:58:16  <redmonkey> ..automatically
10:58:47  <Yorick> breakdowns to off
10:58:56  <Noldo> which pathfinder?
10:59:11  <Yorick> disable service when breakdowns are off set to on
10:59:12  <Yorick> YAPF
10:59:29  <redmonkey> YAPF for trains is ON
11:00:00  <redmonkey> breakdowns are set to reduced
11:00:15  <Yorick> everytime I see a train passing throug a PBS signal, and there is another train in the same block, I think "they're gonna crash!"
11:00:24  <Yorick> breakdowns must be set to off
11:01:03  <Yorick> and then, you see the train changing its path the last moment ^^
11:01:45  <Yorick> I hope the YAPP hits trunk
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11:02:14  <blathijs> YAPP?
11:02:16  <redmonkey> but i don't want to disable breakdowns completely
11:02:37  <Noldo> blathijs: the new pbs thing
11:02:53  <blathijs> Yet Another PBS Project ? :-p
11:03:03  <Yorick> yes
11:03:06  <blathijs> Noldo: Is it any good?
11:03:11  <Yorick> yes
11:03:12  <Noldo> Patch actually
11:03:29  <Yorick> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36107
11:03:45  <Noldo> haven't tried, but people seem to like it
11:04:08  <Yorick> yes
11:04:22  <Yorick> if you build it correctly, 0 crashes
11:04:58  <blathijs> Noldo: I was curious as to code quality in particular, but you haven't seen it
11:05:36  <Noldo> no and my code quality eye is quite lazy anyway
11:05:37  <Yorick> <belugas>I have not yet tried it, but i can cmpliment you at least
11:05:37  <Yorick> a) for the effort
11:05:37  <Yorick> b) for the almost perfect compliance to the code style
11:05:37  <Yorick> c) for quite a good presentation :)
11:06:49  <peter1138> "<Yorick> everytime I see a train passing throug a PBS signal, ...."    That's why I keep PBS paths visible... ;)
11:07:17  <Yorick> it isn't very visible with maglev
11:07:44  <peter1138> Oh, well I don't use maglev very often.
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11:08:01  <peter1138> It arrives too late and is ugly, heh
11:08:25  <Yorick> but is fast
11:09:06  <peter1138> There's nowhere to put it after a map has been filled with regular rails for 80 years.
11:09:19  <Yorick> you can start in 2022 ;)
11:09:28  <peter1138> That would be horrible.
11:09:39  <peter1138> I'd miss out on the early vehicles.
11:09:49  <Yorick> oh noes!
11:09:51  <DJ-Nekkid> peter1138: then you hopefully will love the 2cc set ;) *promote*
11:09:58  <peter1138> Clearly we have different goals when playing this game.
11:10:05  <peter1138> "the 2cc set" ?
11:10:15  <DJ-Nekkid> purno's 2cc set ...
11:10:29  <DJ-Nekkid> *hook you up with link in a sec*
11:10:44  <DJ-Nekkid> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28051&sid=7b38713e29fc78cd5b55e84dff07a91e&start=520
11:11:04  <DJ-Nekkid> now there are a handfull more coded as well
11:11:27  <peter1138> How strange.
11:11:31  <DJ-Nekkid> and monorail is converted into metro's...
11:11:42  <peter1138> I prefer to use a country-themed set. UKRS, DBSetXL, USSet, etc...
11:11:44  <DJ-Nekkid> kinda slow, but high capacity inner city trains
11:11:57  <Yorick> Dutch Train set :]
11:12:06  <DJ-Nekkid> is that done yet Yorick ?
11:12:09  <Yorick> no
11:12:16  <DJ-Nekkid> all i've seen from that is a buggy alpha
11:16:39  <redmonkey> isn't it just too easy to disable breakdowns?
11:16:52  <Yorick> have it your way
11:17:02  <Yorick> but there is no way to disable servicing then
11:18:53  <redmonkey> well, i don't want to disable servicing. i'm just wondering why some trains doesn't go to a depot to repair themself
11:19:10  <Yorick> the depots are too far away?
11:19:15  <redmonkey> it works on normal depots that are directly on a railtrack without any problem
11:19:30  <Yorick> I think they only service when there is a depot 20 tiles away from them
11:20:02  <redmonkey> let me count...
11:20:17  <Yorick> :D
11:20:27  <redmonkey> it's 12 tiles away
11:20:47  <Yorick> and reachable?
11:20:58  <Yorick> without having to turn somewhere
11:21:08  <redmonkey> yes
11:21:25  <Yorick> is it in need of servicing?
11:22:00  <redmonkey> yes, it is
11:22:09  <Yorick> 150 days since the last service?
11:22:13  <redmonkey> hmm, i think it works with 6 tiles only
11:23:06  <redmonkey> i lowered the service interval to 90 days
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11:44:33  <peter1138> Boo, my A380 crashed :o
11:44:47  <Yorick> })
11:44:57  <Yorick> is that av8?
11:47:25  <peter1138> Yeah
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11:47:57  <Yorick> go including variable aircrash rates then!
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11:49:34  <SmatZ> hello
11:49:40  <Yorick> hello
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12:06:10  <Yorick> [12:47] <Yorick> peter1138: go including variable aircrash rates then!
12:10:33  <Gekz> lolol
12:10:58  <Yorick> lol?
12:12:37  <Gekz> lol!
12:15:07  <Yorick> why?
12:18:31  <Gekz> because.
12:19:55  *** pm|away is now known as planetmaker
12:20:00  <planetmaker> hi
12:20:23  <planetmaker> I got a question as I obviously miss something...
12:20:36  *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
12:20:37  <planetmaker> I just compiled ottd's latest nightly with the pbs patch.
12:21:02  <planetmaker> but many graphics are missing like those for the pre-signals and the autorail tool etc.
12:21:17  <planetmaker> Which file am I'm missing? ottd doesn't complain...
12:22:16  <SmatZ> planetmaker: what OS are you running? do you have subversion installed?
12:22:45  <SmatZ> or try ./configure --with
12:22:52  <SmatZ> or try ./configure --revision=rxxxxx
12:23:01  <planetmaker> I'm running SuSE linux 10.0. I have subversion
12:23:02  <Gekz> --with-me ?
12:23:23  <Yorick> openttdw.grf?
12:23:38  <planetmaker> yorick: there is one. It gets generated.
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12:23:53  <Yorick|AFK> afk again
12:24:10  <SmatZ> planetmaker: does OTTD window say OpenTTD r12xxxM , or OpenTTD norev0000 (or so...)
12:24:34  <planetmaker> the latter. It gives a warning that no revision is specified during compilation.
12:24:54  <peter1138> Best to check out the source with svn, rather than download the nightly's source.
12:25:20  <planetmaker> peter1138: never did that. can you give me a step by step instruction, please?
12:25:31  <peter1138> "svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/"
12:25:40  <Gekz> pwned!
12:26:02  <Gekz> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/ openttd
12:26:09  <Gekz> huzzah
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12:38:53  <redmonkey> wouldn't it be nice if there were a little extra program that loads your openttd savegames and displays it in 3d? where you're able to walk around and jump in into a train of yours and drive with it to the next stop? :)
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12:39:21  <DJ-Nekkid> gl on that
12:40:38  <redmonkey> hehe, you don't have to tell me.. i'm not a programmer :)
12:41:30  <Forked> "a little extra" ? :)
12:41:47  <redmonkey> i mean a separate program
12:41:56  <redmonkey> as a side project or something
12:43:47  <SmatZ> redmonkey: yeah, it would be nice, you just need 3D models of all buildings, vehicles and all sprites generally...
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12:45:37  <redmonkey> uhh, sound like a lot of work :)
12:45:41  <redmonkey> *sounds
12:46:14  <SmatZ> yeah
12:50:12  <planetmaker> peter1138: SmatZ: thx. I'll give it a try with the svn version, patched with yapp. I'll know soon...
12:50:30  <Yorick> using windows?
12:50:39  <planetmaker> whom? me? no. Linux
12:50:44  <Yorick> ok
12:50:45  <planetmaker> At least now.
12:50:57  <Yorick> I would have had a windows binary here
12:51:23  <planetmaker> this evening I might give it a try on mac :). But if you have win binary with the latest yapp I'd be glad
12:51:47  <planetmaker> I prefer to play on my desktop that is. Can you e-mail me to newsgroups (Àt) planetmaker.de ?
12:52:20  <Yorick> I've edited the patch so newGRF's with newStations can use the reservation state
12:52:48  <planetmaker> That definitely is no backdraw :). Any newgrf which I then should download?
12:53:26  <Yorick> the only grf I know that uses it is the Industrial Stations Renewal Set(train sheds opening/closing)
12:53:52  <Yorick> do you want only the binary or the language files and grf files too?
12:54:35  <planetmaker> that's in the ottdc grf package?
12:54:41  <Yorick> yes
12:55:01  <planetmaker> If the language and grf files are compatible with normal nightly I'll have no problem to not receive them
12:55:09  <Yorick> the language files arent
12:55:25  <planetmaker> hm. I'd need an English or German version
12:56:03  <Yorick> Tar, 7-zip, Rar or zip
12:56:25  <planetmaker> anything except 7-zip is fine. preferred tar or zip
12:56:32  <DJ-Nekkid> what would the syntax for the running cost of train be? 0E xx xx 00 00 0D <factor> ?
12:56:37  <planetmaker> or gz
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12:58:26  <planetmaker> peter1138: thx. the svn version compiled fine and no missing grf now
12:58:50  <planetmaker> Yorick: can you tell me? How do I place pbs signals?
12:59:07  <DJ-Nekkid> ctrl-click on them
12:59:12  <Gekz> point blank shot signals!
12:59:24  <DJ-Nekkid> and it will cycle between normal-pre-exit-combo-pbs
12:59:24  <DJ-Nekkid> i assume
12:59:38  <Yorick> signal GUI ;)
12:59:58  <Yorick> DJ-Nekkid: if you set it so in the patches
13:00:32  <Yorick> planetmaker: I don't like email, can I upload it somewhere?
13:00:54  <DJ-Nekkid> or use signal gui :)
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13:03:00  <Yorick> http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/44243/openttd-r12062-pbs-zip.html
13:03:02  <planetmaker> DJ-Nekkid: seems easiest. thx
13:04:44  <Yorick> planetmaker: see download url above ^_^
13:05:06  <planetmaker> yorick: file downloaded. thx :)
13:05:46  <Yorick> deleting it again
13:06:05  <planetmaker> Okay, I think I'll have get to work now again :) and play around this evening...
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13:06:57  <pm|work> I just got too curious with so many people trying out this nice new patch :)
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13:08:40  <Yorick> I think that how many people use this patch and not the official openttd nightlys influences the time it gets included :-P
13:10:35  <Yorick> there is already a server running with the patch
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13:12:52  <ln-> our agent in brazil
13:13:31  <Yorick> or Owenia
13:15:04  <orudge`> quite
13:15:13  <orudge`> but only until tomorrow evening
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13:18:36  <DirtYiCE> hi
13:18:41  <Yorick> hi
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13:19:18  <DirtYiCE> ping Rubidium
13:20:14  <Yorick> [14:20] -NickServ- 1 (online, not identified)
13:21:24  <Sacro> our agent with a brazillian?
13:22:18  <orudge`> you make jokes like that far too much, Sacro, they weren't funny the first time :p
13:30:41  <Sacro> q a b c=putStrLn $ b ++ [toEnum 10,'q','('] ++ show b ++ [','] ++ show c ++ [','] ++ show a ++ [')']
13:30:41  <Sacro> main=q "q a b c=putStrLn $ b ++ [toEnum 10,'q','('] ++ show b ++ [','] ++ show c ++ [','] ++ show a ++ [')']" "def q(a,b,c):print b+chr(10)+'q('+repr(b)+','+repr(c)+','+repr(a)+')'" "def e(x) return 34.chr+x+34.chr end;def q(a,b,c) print b+10.chr+'main=q '+e(b)+' '+e(c)+' '+e(a)+' '+10.chr end"
13:31:38  * Forked implodes
13:31:40  * keyweed blinks
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13:43:53  <DaveWorley> Afternoon all.
13:44:53  <Sacro> Dave!
13:45:37  <DaveWorley> Jesu'.
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14:15:19  <Yorick> there is exactly one YAPP testing server from tycoonez.com:munity, but its in 1930>no rail to build :(
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14:25:42  <Typhoon> yo
14:26:15  <Sacro> i wanna play with PBS D:
14:26:18  <Sacro> someone start a server
14:26:23  <Yorick> there is one
14:26:29  <Yorick> })
14:26:36  <Vikthor> Yorick: Its with usset, ther should be trains
14:26:48  <Yorick> no newgrfs ;)
14:26:54  <Typhoon> does anyone know if TTDAlter works on Vista/
14:27:06  <Yorick> not for ottd
14:27:07  <orudge`> should do
14:27:16  <orudge`> I've not tested it
14:27:18  <orudge`> but I don't see why it shouldn't work
14:27:36  <Vikthor> Yorick: ahh, now i remember I switched them off. But I forgot to change the year
14:27:46  <Yorick> OMG
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14:29:10  <Yorick> its being compiled for openttdcoop.dev ;)
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14:29:47  <orudge`> 11:27:19] <Yorick> not for ottd <-- he asked about Vista, not OpenTTD ;)
14:29:57  <orudge`> TTDAlter has never worked with OpenTTD, obviously
14:30:18  <Yorick> still 1930, Vikthor
14:31:43  <Vikthor> hmm
14:33:13  <Vikthor> Now it's 1930 but with Usset :D
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14:41:34  * peter1138 wonders how Sacro will cope with not being able to place signals every other tile...
14:41:45  <peter1138> Hmm, well I suppose you can...
14:42:38  <orudge`> why wouldn't he be able to?
14:43:04  <peter1138> I'd ban him :D
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14:55:43  <keyweed> you should. every tile should have a sign!
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14:57:53  <peter1138> Is there a short-cut key for one-way roads?
14:59:30  <Sacro> peter1138: i hate having to do that
14:59:56  <Sacro> it tends to be the only way thouhg
15:00:21  <Sacro> anything longer is inefficient when doing points
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15:03:48  <DJ-Nekk|d> what would be the proper way to make a vehicle never expire? \b0 or \b255 ?
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15:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> arghh... my system is awfully screwed up today...
15:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> i had memory overflow earlier today... something didn't recover from that properly...
15:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'll try to restart X
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15:32:29  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r12070 /trunk/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Cleanup(r12042): Water-owner of shipdepots is no longer needed. Removed.
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16:04:16  <Gonozal_VIII> ping?
16:04:29  <saati> pong
16:04:48  <Gonozal_VIII> why is the channel so silent?
16:05:29  <ln-> you only arrived 5 mins ago.
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16:11:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you pinged me!!
16:12:35  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r12071 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp water.h water_cmd.cpp): -Feature(ette): Draw river- and canal-edges under docks and shipdepots.
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16:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i just had a crash...
16:18:40  <Eddi|zuHause> reversing train while waiting at signal...
16:18:51  <Gonozal_VIII> well... bad
16:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: these may not happen under any circumstances
16:19:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: well, i just saved 5 days before ;)
16:19:40  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r12072 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Make docks at sea flood neighboured tiles.
16:19:46  <Gonozal_VIII> load because of a crash? naaah
16:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> load because of finding out why
16:20:19  <Gonozal_VIII> reversing train while waiting at signal...
16:20:26  <Gonozal_VIII> your why ;-)
16:20:58  <Gonozal_VIII> goes to the other signal behind him from the backside, can't stop, no path, boom
16:23:27  <Gonozal_VIII> they should only be allowed to pass through the backside of a signal if they have a path
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16:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> there was no signal behind it
16:25:50  <Gonozal_VIII> then what did it crash into?
16:26:50  <Sacro> someone start a server
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16:27:14  <Eddi|zuHause> it went straight back on the crossing
16:27:35  <Eddi|zuHause> before it reached anything like a signal, it crashed with another train
16:28:23  <Gonozal_VIII> you reversed a train into a crossing without any signals?
16:28:39  <Gonozal_VIII> and you're wondering about the crash?^^
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16:29:13  <Eddi|zuHause> not I reversed
16:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> it reversed by itself!!
16:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause> because it waited too long at a signal!
16:29:38  <Gonozal_VIII> pbs signal?
16:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i was on the other side of the map!
16:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no, normal signal
16:29:55  <Gonozal_VIII> see... there's your problem
16:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "exit" signal
16:30:05  <Gonozal_VIII> they don't reverse at pbs signals
16:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it is not a problem
16:30:15  <Eddi|zuHause> this is how it is intended
16:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc said it himself yesterday... all entrance signals PBS, all exit signals normal signals
16:30:46  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... bad layout, crash, this is how it is intended :-)
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16:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you are an idiot
16:31:59  <Gonozal_VIII> hahahahahahahahahahahaha
16:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> this is exactly the scenario why the last PBS patch was rejected
16:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> train reverses -> boom
16:32:28  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
16:32:28  <NukeBuster> !logs
16:32:49  <Gonozal_VIII> then don't use normal signals there or a pbs signal in front of the crossing...
16:33:05  <Gonozal_VIII> no signal at all, how is the train supposed to know it has to stop?
16:34:14  *** lobster_ is now known as lobster
16:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the train is not supposed to go there
16:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a don't care on that it has to stop
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16:39:41  <peter1138> Why is it so hard to understand?
16:39:58  <peter1138> Crashes bad.
16:41:08  <SmatZ> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kDMvPCkFSU&feature=related (trams, on topic)
16:41:18  <hylje> Trams! Always related!
16:41:41  <hylje> .. eh, what?
16:42:21  <peter1138> errr. wtf
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16:43:04  <Belugas> i do NOT want to visit that city...
16:44:30  <NukeBuster> me neither
16:44:37  <valhallasw> wtf
16:44:49  <NukeBuster> indeed
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16:46:22  <ln-> wtf, it is already going straight ahead, but then magically jumps to left?
16:46:47  <hylje> that's the real WTF
16:47:01  <Gonozal_VIII> i found a big wtf just now
16:47:32  <Gonozal_VIII> a train waits patiently in front of a pbs signal for another train to pass by..
16:47:42  <Gonozal_VIII> but then suddenly the signal turns green and crash
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16:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> like this big?
16:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause>  \      /___ __
16:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause>   \    /  |  |_
16:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause>    \/\/   |  |
16:49:15  * keyweed suggests figlet
16:49:36  <Gonozal_VIII> and now another train ignored an empty platform and entered the busy one... boom again
16:50:20  <keyweed> el quaeda suicide trains mod?
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16:52:10  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: there is a funny sideffect when a train without a reservation is on a track
16:52:22  <Gonozal_VIII> besides the boom?
16:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> when a train reserves a track underneath another train
16:52:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that other train clears the reservation while it is going on
16:52:42  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
16:52:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so even when these two trains miss each other
16:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the third train faces unreserved track
16:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so it can delay the crash
16:53:43  <Gonozal_VIII> years later some trains crash there for no visible reason^^
16:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, because one train gets delayed by cosmic dust or so
16:56:47  <Eddi|zuHause> BR 250... that's a useful engine for once...
16:57:21  <Gonozal_VIII> from 150 to 250
16:57:33  <Gonozal_VIII> http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/pbs/
16:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, from 254 (= E 94) to 250, rather...
17:00:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a few E 44, too
17:01:53  <Gonozal_VIII> they don't look past the next order... pathfinder flaw
17:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i have 39 194 and 38 150
17:04:23  <Gonozal_VIII> what's a 194? i think i never used those
17:04:49  <Eddi|zuHause> E 94 (DRG) == 194 (DB) == 254 (DR)
17:05:24  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, that might be solved by implicit signals at platform ends
17:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause> getting confused yet? ;)
17:06:07  <peter1138> DBSetXL has way too many engines that are very similar
17:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, like 181 and 111 at the same time...
17:07:25  <Eddi|zuHause> one is a tiny bit faster, the other a tiny bit stronger
17:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause> lifetime of engines should be more random...
17:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> when i bougth them at the same time, they all get old at the same time
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17:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally unrealistic
17:10:01  <Gonozal_VIII> Gonozal_VIII, that might be solved by implicit signals at platform ends <-- could cause deadlocks with a station setup like on my screenshot
17:10:40  <peter1138> hmm true
17:10:52  <peter1138> then a complete path needs to be reserved
17:11:02  <Gonozal_VIII> they should always reserve a path all the way to the next signal or end of the line, no matter if it really wants to go there
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17:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> if the pathfinder has no idea where to go from the station, which path should it reserve?
17:13:42  <Belugas> [12:08] <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally unrealistic  <---  Good!  I like it!  let's keep it that way :D
17:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
17:14:16  <Gonozal_VIII> if the path splits without signals, reserve both
17:15:50  <Gonozal_VIII> because if it doesn't do that other trains could enter from there... destined to crash because there are no signals
17:17:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... autoreplace fails...
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17:26:35  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, reserving both is not good
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17:27:54  <Gonozal_VIII> look and reserve the following orders until it reaches a safe place
17:28:17  <Eddi|zuHause> possible infinite loop
17:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, you cannot reserve backwards
17:28:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you free this track when you go over it
17:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> even when you intend to go over it a second time
17:29:19  <Gonozal_VIII> why reserve backwards?
17:31:02  <Gonozal_VIII> if it turns around, end of path is reached
17:31:28  <Eddi|zuHause> trains can reverse in stations
17:31:49  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, then it reserves the platform
17:32:00  <Gonozal_VIII> and no other train can reserve a path to it
17:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but it can reverse and go out of the station without passing another signal
17:33:37  <Gonozal_VIII> with the setup in my screenshot, there could still be a train from the leftmost station to the left middle and a train from the right to the right middle at the same time if they both turn around
17:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> on previously unreserved track
17:34:04  <Gonozal_VIII> oh right... the reservation back is gone
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17:40:24  <UnderBuilder> one question... how can I install openttd on damn small linux?
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17:41:31  <UnderBuilder> it uses their own package manager
17:42:06  <Gonozal_VIII> since when does openttd need an installation?
17:42:09  <Prof_Frink> I'd go with "build from source".
17:48:16  <Yorick> michi_cc?
17:48:51  <Yorick> it seems like trains that are 'lost' can drive through PBS without a reservation...
17:50:58  <pm|work> We / I could supply a save where to demonstrate that.
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17:55:16  <UnderBuilder> are you answering to me?
17:55:33  <Yorick> '?
17:56:11  <UnderBuilder> 	<UnderBuilder>	one question... how can I install openttd on damn small linux?
17:56:27  <Gonozal_VIII> openttd doesn't need installation
17:56:41  <UnderBuilder> ???
17:56:52  <UnderBuilder> quote trainlord: huh?
17:56:54  <UnderBuilder> lol
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17:58:41  <fjb> Hello
17:58:45  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
17:59:52  <Yorick> hi
18:01:07  <SmatZ> UnderBuilder: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=36097&hilit=DSL
18:02:04  *** Amis [~amis.weas@dsl5400C311.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
18:02:09  <Amis> hi
18:03:09  <Yorick> hi
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18:04:32  <UnderBuilder> in that thread it says that I need to get some libraries which seems to be painful to install
18:05:33  <SmatZ> choose other distribution
18:05:50  <SmatZ> this is not OTTD problem, but rather DSL problem
18:06:01  <UnderBuilder> my pc is a p2 celeron with 256mb ram
18:06:12  <UnderBuilder> processor clock: 300mhz
18:06:31  <SmatZ> I am running Gentoo on slower PC :-p
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18:07:08  <Wolf01> hello
18:07:13  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
18:07:17  <Yorick> hello
18:08:55  *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3160P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:09:41  <DaleStan> Belugas, peter1138: Do either of you know what Open does for bit 4 of varaction2 variable 1B? (1B is display options. Bit 4 is transparency.)
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18:10:07  * Belugas checks
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18:11:46  <glx> case 0x1B: return GB(_display_opt, 0, 6);
18:13:23  <glx> it does nothing (we don't have bit 4
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18:14:50  <Belugas> indeed not...
18:14:57  <Belugas> /* Display Options */
18:14:57  <Belugas> enum {
18:14:57  <Belugas> 	DO_SHOW_TOWN_NAMES    = 0,
18:14:57  <Belugas> 	DO_SHOW_STATION_NAMES = 1,
18:14:57  <Belugas> 	DO_SHOW_SIGNS         = 2,
18:14:59  <Belugas> 	DO_FULL_ANIMATION     = 3,
18:14:59  <Belugas> 	DO_FULL_DETAIL        = 5,
18:15:01  <Belugas> 	DO_WAYPOINTS          = 6,
18:15:01  <Belugas> };
18:15:15  <Belugas> DaleStan, why?  you have an idea?
18:15:24  <Belugas> or... does ttdp uses it?
18:15:26  <Belugas> or will?
18:15:49  <SmatZ> maybe different sprites are used when transparency is set?
18:17:14  <DaleStan> That's the possibility, indeed. TTDPatch doesn't use it, but some GRF authors may.
18:18:10  <DaleStan> At least in my mind, TTDPatch doesn't "use" the NFO spec.
18:18:54  <DaleStan> More precisely, some sprites may cause ugliness in transparent mode, and just don't get drawn.
18:20:15  <Belugas> mmh... ottd has a setting specially for transparencies, where quite a few stuff can be turned transparent
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18:20:55  <Belugas> i wonder if we should set the bit 4 whenever a transparent option is turned on, then
18:21:00  <Belugas> or something like that
18:21:25  <Belugas> which should be quite trivial to do
18:21:59  <peter1138> Depends on the feature :o
18:22:41  <Belugas> of course :)
18:24:17  <DirtYiCE> any noai or squirrel people here?
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18:24:40  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, another unexplainable crash...
18:25:01  <Belugas> blame it on the cosmic rays :D
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18:25:48  <Amis> OTTD is 20% game code 30% elements and 50% unknown soul
18:26:36  <DaleStan> What I've got is that every time getnewsprite gets called, I set bit 4 of displayoptions according to the transparency option that applies to grffeature, but I was wondering if there was a better solution.
18:27:46  <Belugas> "according to the transparency option that applies to grffeature"  you lost me there :(
18:27:47  <peter1138> bwahaha
18:28:07  <peter1138> "Regardless, TTD [...] will become abandon ware in 2 years"
18:28:11  <peter1138> Funniest thing ever...
18:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause> more like 102 years ;)
18:28:48  <Eddi|zuHause> probably won't suffice
18:28:57  <DaleStan> grffeature is the global that sets which feature is being queried for new sprites. So, if it's 04, I use the station transparency setting; if it's 09, I use the industry transparency setting, and so on.
18:28:59  <Gonozal_VIII> it's been "abandonware" for lots of years
18:29:10  <Gonozal_VIII> doesn't change any copyright
18:29:36  <Belugas> ok, understood, DaleStan
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18:30:20  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: abandonware doesn't exist
18:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause> word of advise: never try to resolve a deadlock by placing PBS ;)
18:31:56  <Belugas> DaleStan, maybe a new var?  Exposing the real transparency mode, i mean
18:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> (but this is not the reason for that crash)
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18:32:47  <DaleStan> But for things like vehicles and cargos, I was hoping for an already defined behaviour. And maybe, but that doesn't fix the problem; bit 4 of var1B still has to work.
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18:35:06  <Belugas> having transparent vehicles...  pleasant idea :)
18:35:54  <SmatZ> :-) not hard
18:36:14  <Belugas> nope, i don't think it would be
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18:36:18  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaand why exactly is that useful?^^
18:36:33  <Belugas> did anyone said usefull??
18:36:54  <SmatZ> no
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18:37:37  <Gonozal_VIII> some IsTransparencySet(TO_VEHICLES)s later.. and what's the point now?
18:38:55  <Belugas> mmmh... we do not set the grffeature in the resolverobject
18:39:41  <Belugas> unless it is but i do not see it since it wears another name...
18:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, next unprovoked crash...
18:41:29  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: PBS modified I suppose
18:41:46  <Eddi|zuHause> PBS, but not modified ;)
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18:43:07  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: just what strange track layouts are building to get that many crashes? (Note: waypoints and lost trains don't count, problem is known and will be fixed)
18:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> apart from the first one, train reverses at signal, i have no way to reproduce them
18:44:12  <Eddi|zuHause> some rare circumstances release tracks before it is properly freed or something
18:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i first have to resolve this mega deadlock, before i can test further...
18:45:58  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
18:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the deadlock is not PBS related
18:46:13  <michi_cc> train reversing has it's problems right now, but I think I have a satisfactory solution
18:46:40  <Yorick> ah Michi
18:47:10  <Yorick> I'll prepare a savegame wherein trains crash
18:47:46  <michi_cc> waypoint, lost train or train reversing? then don't bother
18:47:54  <Yorick> no
18:47:58  <Yorick> yes
18:48:00  <Yorick> lost train
18:48:13  <michi_cc> fixed locally
18:48:19  * Yorick wants it
18:48:23  <michi_cc> wait for the next release :)
18:48:48  <Yorick> have you done the newStation reserved state?
18:49:41  <michi_cc> no, I haven't, but i've seen the quick fix of peter1138. I jus thave to find the source line where it's on
18:49:53  <Yorick> there are 2 things needed for it
18:49:56  <michi_cc> probably in newgrf_something
18:50:31  <Yorick> first, reserved paths always have to be redrawn, not only when debug_level >=2
18:51:21  <Yorick> and on newgrf_station.cpp line 397: case 0x44: return GetRailwayStationReservation(tile) ? 7 : 4; // PBS status
18:51:36  <michi_cc> thanks, found
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18:52:28  <Yorick> and you'll have to mark the whole path dirty when it gets reserved ;)
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18:53:33  <Sacro> "Limitation disturbs me very sprites. Goes it throw out limitation?"
18:53:46  <SmatZ> what?
18:54:06  <Belugas> Serguey's quote?
18:54:08  <Yorick> problem with that fix is that it will return unreserved state when PBS aren't used there
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18:55:49  <Sacro> Belugas: nope, not him :)
18:55:53  <Sacro> Sergey_S that is
18:56:21  <Gonozal_VIII> i used an old version of the copy & paste patch for my merge thingy... had a hard time updating it above 12040.. and now i found the 12042 version^^
18:57:01  <Yorick> :D
18:57:41  <Sacro> alas poor Yorick ...
18:57:59  <Yorick> ?
18:58:37  <Gonozal_VIII> should have updated the patches one by one instead of merging them and updating together... i'm doing that now
18:59:26  <Sacro> Yorick: shakespear
18:59:46  <Yorick> what does "BarCrossing" and "UnbarCrossing" do?
18:59:58  <Gonozal_VIII> close the bars?
18:59:59  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: when the last wagon of a train gets stopped right on a (non-PBS) signal tile, it frees the tile before the signal, and the next train reserves up to that signal
19:00:07  <Eddi|zuHause> when the 2nd train reaches that signal
19:00:17  <Yorick> means make it closed?
19:00:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it crashes with the last wagon of the waiting train
19:00:59  <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: does it close the crossing for RV's?
19:01:15  <glx> that's how it works yes
19:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> solution: reserve all tiles that are occupied by a train... (i said that before)
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19:03:25  * Yorick is coding a piece that makes a road crossing close when
19:03:31  <Yorick> it gets reserved
19:03:34  <Yorick> :)
19:03:46  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm nice
19:04:22  <Yorick> same behavior in ttdp
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19:04:36  <Gonozal_VIII> could cause too long closed times... but less exploding trucks^^
19:04:50  <Yorick> I'll leave the sound, 1.it can't play long enough 2.it's annoying!
19:05:20  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
19:06:11  <Gonozal_VIII> i think that could reduce the chances to get it into trunk because it removes an existing "feature" (the sound)
19:06:22  <Yorick> it doesn't remove it
19:06:33  <Yorick> it closes
19:06:43  <Yorick> and when the train comes near, it will play the sound
19:06:50  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, ok
19:06:55  <Yorick> it will just be shut more
19:07:02  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
19:07:21  <Yorick> and that is nice for the truckdrivers and their explosive cargo
19:07:50  <Sacro> there is a grf that removes the sound
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19:08:03  <Yorick> one line to add, michi_cc , road_map.h line 217: SetCrossingBarred(t, b);
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19:08:55  <SmatZ> Yorick: use MaybeBarCrossingWithSound(tile, false)
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19:09:01  <Yorick> it will use sound
19:09:04  <Madassasin> hello
19:09:05  <SmatZ> to skip the sound
19:09:08  <Yorick> ah
19:09:18  <Yorick> and what's the advantage
19:09:19  <SmatZ> hello Madassasin
19:09:20  <Madassasin> I've got an idea to solve the level crossing stuff with YAPF
19:09:25  <Madassasin> shall I start?
19:09:57  * Yorick pauses Madassasin and redirects output to readable wiki page, unpauses again
19:10:06  <Barry> Goodevening
19:10:10  <Madassasin> ...lol
19:10:28  <Madassasin> basically I'm thinking that the road part should look a few tiles forward for crossings, and if it finds one, it should talk to the rail part
19:10:28  <Barry> is there a list of all patches there are in the latest nightly
19:10:33  <Yorick> SmatZ: what's the advantage of MaybeBarCrossingWithSound?
19:10:47  <Madassasin> to calculate if the RV has time to cross or not
19:11:14  <Madassasin> Barry: about 3k patches
19:11:15  <Yorick> Madassasin: we're just discussing something with crossings that get closed when they get reserved
19:11:23  <SmatZ> Barry: you can list Changelog
19:11:33  <Madassasin> hmm, what exactly
19:12:01  <Barry> Hehehhe Madassasin. Sorry I mean the patches from the forum like authority_disabler_6.diff
19:12:13  <Madassasin> oh, well, good luck then
19:12:47  <Gonozal_VIII> most patches that got into trunk have "in trunk since bla" in the topic name
19:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: you can't only reserve the path up to the signal, you need to reserve the signal tile as well
19:13:29  <Yorick> SmatZ: MaybeBarCrossingWithSound accepts only 1 parameter
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19:14:24  <Yorick> static inline void MaybeBarCrossingWithSound(TileIndex tile) ;)
19:14:39  <SmatZ> Yorick: true
19:15:05  <Madassasin> void MaybeBarCrossingWithSound(bool scream) { if (true == scream ) { PlaySound(SND_LEVEL_CROSSING); } }
19:15:30  <SmatZ> :-D
19:15:31  <Belugas> o_O
19:15:37  <Madassasin> whut? :P
19:15:42  <Belugas> if (scream)
19:15:43  <Belugas> :P
19:15:51  <Madassasin> meh, I'm the more verbose kind
19:16:15  <Madassasin> I personally have a lot to complain about the ottd style :P
19:16:34  <Madassasin> and not the position of the braces, I couldn't care less
19:16:55  <Yorick> michi_cc michi_cc michi_cc *summoning
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19:17:15  <Madassasin> no, no, no, pointers are bad
19:17:23  <Madassasin> michi_cc &summoning :P
19:18:14  <Belugas> Madassasin : http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/photos/dare_to_complain.PNG
19:18:15  <SmatZ> Madassasin: your coding style scares me a lot
19:18:32  <Madassasin> when did you see some of my code?!
19:19:03  <Gonozal_VIII> if (true == scream ) <-- that is indeed scary^^
19:19:06  <SmatZ> [20:15:07] <Madassasin> void MaybeBarCrossingWithSound(bool scream) { if (true == scream ) { PlaySound(SND_LEVEL_CROSSING); } }
19:19:09  <SmatZ> [20:17:26] <Madassasin> michi_cc &summoning :P
19:19:17  <Madassasin> Belugal: LMAO!!!
19:19:27  <Madassasin> what's wrong with references?
19:19:49  <SmatZ> they are so ... Javish?
19:19:58  <Madassasin> yea? lemme give you an example
19:20:05  <Gonozal_VIII> not only do you compare a bool to a bool to get a bool^^, you also have the value first, then the variable... strange^^
19:20:15  <Belugas> Laughing My Ass Out (??)
19:20:23  <Madassasin> *Off
19:20:24  <Belugas> Leave Me Alone OK (??)
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19:20:31  <Belugas> oh...
19:20:32  <Belugas> heheh
19:21:12  <Madassasin> int sum(int* a, int* b) {return *a + *b}; **OR** int sum(int& a, int& b) {return a + b);
19:21:21  <Madassasin> tell me which is nicer :)
19:21:45  *** Guest640 [~Gonozal_V@M3160P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:21:45  <Gonozal_VIII> int pointers?
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19:21:50  <Madassasin> why?
19:22:02  <SmatZ> using references leads to bugs
19:22:08  <SmatZ> it is much worse readable (for me:)
19:22:12  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
19:22:12  <SmatZ> !logs
19:22:14  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know c++, wtf is & ?
19:22:26  <Madassasin> it's the reference operator
19:22:29  <Yorick> & || AND
19:22:41  * Prof_Frink ampersands Gonozal_VIII
19:22:49  <Belugas> Madassasin, it's easy. The one who is nicer is the one with the less bug potential, where there is less deduction been made to understand it and , most of all, the one that all the devs agree upon using (and are used to work with)
19:22:59  <Belugas> who..which
19:23:00  <Belugas> code
19:23:02  <Belugas> gaaa
19:23:28  <Madassasin> ...
19:23:48  <SmatZ> Madassasin: swap(a, b) --- most people will know that they are actually pointers to a,b - so a,b can change...
19:23:50  <Gonozal_VIII> what's wrong with int sum(int a, int b) {return a + b} ?
19:24:26  <SmatZ> but for many functions, you have to see and remember which functions use reference to do the job of pointers
19:24:38  <Madassasin> Gonozal_VIII: that's an example, go pass a 1 mb string by value
19:25:22  <Sacro> a millbit?
19:25:26  <Sacro> *millibit
19:25:38  <SmatZ> with every reference used in OTTD code my head hurts
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19:26:03  <Madassasin> http://www.research.att.com/~bs/bs_faq2.html#pointers-and-references >.<
19:26:12  <SmatZ> like Chance16R(a,b,r) ... who on Earth should know that 'r' can eventually change? ...
19:26:22  <Madassasin> Sacro: mewgabyte
19:26:25  <Madassasin> *mega
19:26:43  <Sacro> MB then :p
19:27:10  <Madassasin> too lazy to use shift
19:27:15  <SmatZ> 	void incr1(int& x);	// increment
19:27:15  <SmatZ> 	int incr2(int x);	// increment
19:27:24  <SmatZ> yeah, who expects 'x' will change?
19:27:37  <SmatZ> when called incr1(x)
19:28:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <SmatZ> like Chance16R(a,b,r) ... who on Earth should know that 'r' can eventually change? ... <- i believe they were macros before
19:28:43  <Yorick> michi_cc: don't use the setcrossingbarred there, it's not defined yet(can't compile), move the whole reservation down
19:28:51  <Belugas> anyway, it is OUR code style, and that's the one WE are using
19:28:55  <Belugas> so... that's it fo rme
19:29:09  <Belugas> like... take it or leave it
19:29:16  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, and macros are expected to have 'strange' behaviuor
19:29:44  <Yorick> oh well
19:29:50  <SmatZ> "References are useful for several things, but the direct reason I introduced them in C++ was to support operator overloading."
19:29:55  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: so the function tries to mimic the behaviour of the macro, to ease transition
19:30:01  <SmatZ> yeah... operator overloading
19:30:13  <Barry> Guys where can I found a good en clear tutorial to apply a patch/diff in the latest nightly
19:30:29  <Madassasin> Barry: your OS?
19:30:43  <Barry> win vista or win xp
19:30:50  <Madassasin> BuildOTTD for XP
19:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Barry: search for BuildOTTD
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19:30:57  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: it could be Chance16R(a, b, &r) --- it wouldn't change the behaiour, and would be clear that it may change 'r'
19:31:14  <Barry> search on the wiki pages?
19:31:15  <SmatZ> but yes, this way it was just copy+replace
19:31:22  <SmatZ> *search
19:31:35  * SmatZ back to work... (study)
19:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: well, provide a patch ;)
19:32:17  <Madassasin> ok, so why exactly do you recommend pointers or references? as I don't see any advantage, except that most of the system APIs are written in C and use pointers so...
19:32:28  <Madassasin> *over references
19:33:30  <SmatZ> I told my reason - it looks like call by value, but it is call by reference
19:34:22  <Yorick> ah :) finally working
19:34:33  <Yorick> after mixing some things together
19:35:12  *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
19:35:16  <Belugas> r e a d a b i l i t y
19:35:26  <Sacro> Barry: i use patch from gnuwin32
19:35:31  <Yorick> yes, only whole function blocks are moved, belugas
19:35:55  *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3160P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:36:05  <Yorick> actually, only the reservation part was moved to the back of the BarCrossing
19:37:07  <Madassasin> Belugas, SmatZ: is it very hard to look at the function header, or if you have a competent IDE, put the mouse pointer over the variable and see it's type (MSVC, Code::Blocks, wxDev-C++ can do this, haven't tested on other OSs)
19:37:08  <Barry> Thx Sacro I will try BuildOTTD first
19:37:39  <Sacro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Defunct_video_game_companies <- sigh :(#
19:37:58  *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
19:38:00  <SmatZ> Madassasin: why do you need to even move the mouse pointer somewhere, when using pointers is readable without it?
19:38:24  <SmatZ> mmm why don't we start another flame war...
19:38:43  * Sacro opens up vim
19:39:22  <SmatZ> :-)
19:39:40  <Madassasin> Sacro: so atari is gone?
19:40:19  <Sacro> Madassasin: games yes, inc no
19:42:01  <Madassasin> and which one released TTD?
19:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Microprose
19:42:23  <Sacro> siigh
19:42:26  <Sacro> Madassasin: out you go
19:42:29  <Sacro> don't come back :p
19:42:40  * Belugas thinks it is not worth talking about code style. It will not be changed just because a stranger comes in and thinks it is silly.
19:42:49  <Sacro> Belugas: pffft
19:42:56  <Sacro> doing things on a whim is what makes it more interesting
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19:44:14  <Madassasin> Belugas: so seniour forum members are strangers to you?
19:44:24  <Belugas> Well... if it was just uop to me, it would be begin/end instead og {}
19:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i support that ;)
19:45:24  <Madassasin> and I'd get rid of begin, invent "then" & "do" and make it lua >.>
19:45:52  *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-138-167.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
19:46:26  <Belugas> under the name Madassasin, you're pretty much a stranger to me, indeed.  PLus, the seniority has nothuing to do with the pertinence of an opinion
19:46:53  <Belugas> and further more, WE are the ones using that code daily, for quite a long time thank you
19:46:55  <Belugas> so...
19:46:58  <Belugas> blaaaaaaaa
19:47:02  <Madassasin> then you might know me as `Desolator' on the forums
19:47:23  <Belugas> Desolator is known indeed
19:47:35  <Madassasin> better then :)
19:47:56  <SmatZ> Could you change mine to Bill Gates?
19:48:00  <SmatZ> beware! :-P
19:48:09  <Madassasin> sure, gimme 3 billion dollars
19:48:17  <orudge`> er
19:48:22  <orudge`> you mean give ME 3 billion dollars, surely?
19:48:23  <orudge`> :p
19:48:33  <SmatZ> :)
19:48:35  <Madassasin> no, you give each of us a dollar a second
19:49:01  <orudge`> but I'm the only one who can change forum nicknames
19:49:01  <Belugas> but that does not change the point very much
19:49:05  <orudge`> so, it'd be a bit silly giving anyone else the money
19:49:14  <Madassasin> this is IRC, nor forums
19:49:22  <Madassasin> *not
19:49:26  <Sacro> Madassasin: you sure?
19:49:29  * Sacro looks around
19:49:31  <Sacro> hmm
19:49:36  <Sacro> think you might be right
19:49:36  <Madassasin> yes I am
19:50:46  <Madassasin> well, how's the sound system going on, orudge?
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19:51:33  <orudge`> Madassasin: I'm in Brazil, all my code, etc, is in St Andrews
19:51:36  <orudge`> so I haven't done anything with it yet
19:51:41  <orudge`> I shall probably look at it again next week
19:51:43  <orudge`> when I'm home
19:51:49  <Madassasin> ok
19:52:11  <Belugas> RIO!
19:52:17  <Madassasin> ?
19:52:17  <Belugas> the CArnalval!!!
19:52:19  <Wolf01> you are in brazil and in front of a computer?
19:53:00  <orudge`> Belugas: not quite Rio
19:53:08  <orudge`> a bit further north than that
19:53:08  <orudge`> Wolf01: yes
19:53:10  <hylje> so you don't have your code in a SCM?
19:53:13  <orudge`> we've just got back in from a long dayo ut
19:53:27  <orudge`> hylje: I have no desire to program when I'm in a place like this :p
19:53:31  <Belugas> still a nice place to be, orudge :)
19:53:38  <orudge`> oh yes
19:54:50  <peter1138> WHAT DID I MISS?
19:55:00  <Gonozal_VIII> a lot
19:55:02  <Madassasin> lots
19:55:04  <peter1138> :(
19:55:09  <fjb> Trains don't go to the depot on pbs tracks. Is there a workaround for that bug?
19:55:10  <SmatZ> nothing interesting
19:55:27  <Madassasin> yeah, lots of useless opinions
19:55:39  <Belugas> indeed >:)
19:55:41  <Yorick> fjb: I have seen them do :O
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19:56:08  <Madassasin> we've been discussing code politics, you're not interested in that, a beer is better :)
19:56:17  <orudge`> that reminds me
19:56:20  <Belugas> a Madassasin that is really Desolator who requires we do change our code style because he thinks it sucks
19:56:21  <orudge`> I saw an awful lot of beer today
19:56:24  <orudge`> in the wholesale supermarket
19:56:35  <Yorick> how do I do a partial compile using MINGW and MSYS?
19:56:38  <peter1138> mmm, beer
19:56:43  <orudge`> huge palettes full of crates of the stuff
19:56:46  <Madassasin> when did I require you?!
19:56:50  <itchsn> hi
19:56:51  <peter1138> Yorick, don't "make clean"
19:57:05  <Yorick> I didn't
19:57:13  <Yorick> I just do ./configure and make
19:57:18  <itchsn> anyone can help with the .cfg file?
19:57:24  <peter1138> don't configure either
19:57:24  <Yorick> but it compiles everything
19:57:26  <Madassasin> peter1138: last time I checked, it would compile everything again
19:57:31  <peter1138> you only need that the first time
19:57:32  <Madassasin> no matter what I did
19:57:32  <fjb> Yorick: I have seen them do it in the v2 of the patch, not v3.
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20:01:18  <Yorick> I have seen them do in the v3
20:02:18  <Yorick> but they don't work as a PBS, and therefor don't reserve anything, and are vulnerable a crash with any train passing
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20:02:50  *** Madassasin [Madassasin@82.77.166.251] has quit []
20:03:26  <fjb> Ok, you did see it.  I see the trains passing by a depot a month or years after they should have gone to the depot.
20:03:26  *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@130.226.70.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:03:45  <Yorick> hmm...
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20:04:12  *** Gonozal_VIII is now known as Guest646
20:04:13  <itchsn> can someone help me with the gameopt settings in the config file pls? :)
20:04:13  *** sgsadgedg is now known as Gonozal_VIII
20:04:32  <fjb> They reserve the path straight to the next stop, but never into the depot.
20:04:51  <itchsn> i try to get it the pocketpc version running
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20:08:40  <Yorick> yay-this will be a big day for the truckdrivers, they can finally do their job without getting crushed!
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20:13:50  *** orudge` is now known as Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
20:14:49  *** Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu is now known as orudge`
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20:15:31  <SmatZ> orudge` your nick is so big!
20:15:35  <SmatZ> at least, it was
20:15:41  <orudge`> yes
20:15:48  <orudge`> that's not the only thing ;)
20:15:58  <SmatZ> yeah, I guessed so :-)
20:16:28  *** Yorick is now known as Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
20:16:32  *** Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu is now known as Yorick
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20:17:20  <SmatZ> Yorick: there is only one Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu, but it is not you :-P
20:17:41  <Prof_Frink> How Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude
20:18:00  <Chrill> oRuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudge?
20:18:28  <SmatZ> :)
20:18:37  *** Sogard^ [~Sogard@ip68-98-68-147.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:19:45  <Prof_Frink> ORDGLY?
20:20:14  <Yorick> ?
20:20:19  * Yorick likes ?ing
20:20:54  <Prof_Frink> No, the correct response is "YARDGLY."
20:21:40  *** peter1138 [~petern@217.151.109.242] has joined #openttd
20:21:42  *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
20:22:31  * Yorick has to go
20:22:45  * Yorick will cya again...He hopes
20:23:02  *** Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit:  * Yorick waves you goodbye!]
20:23:18  <SmatZ> :-D
20:23:25  *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@M3160P004.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:26:18  <peter1138> Yay!
20:27:23  <SmatZ> Yay, peter!
20:27:53  * peter1138 wonders if anyone has some screenshots of TTDPatch's routing restriction gui...
20:27:56  <peter1138> *cough*
20:28:30  <peter1138> Hmm, found one on a bug report :o
20:31:57  *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
20:32:03  <peter1138> Mr Brianetta.
20:33:59  <Brianetta> peter1138!
20:34:08  <Brianetta> We have a mortage, in principle
20:34:16  <Brianetta> Confirmation will be tomorrow or the day after
20:40:05  <Sacro> Brianetta: cooooool!
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20:41:00  <planetmaker> g' evening all
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20:45:38  <peter1138> Brianetta, "congratulations" ;)#
20:47:02  * peter1138 signs up for BT's paperless billing...
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21:00:28  * Sacro is now playing: 183 Type A [Tetris]
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21:54:17  <Wolf01> 'night
21:54:20  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host72-174-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
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21:58:29  * Belugas goes home and wishes good nigh to those worht it
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21:59:51  <Rubidium> DirtYiCE: pang
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22:33:54  <ln-> ok, what's in Berlin?
22:35:49  <Prof_Frink> germans.
22:36:36  <Rubidium> a very broken wall
22:37:09  <orudge`> you'd think someone would have mended it by now
22:37:41  <ln-> breaking a wall is an act of vandalism, clearly.
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22:48:05  <DirtYiCE> Rubidium: why can't i use multiple constructor in squirrel?
22:52:16  <Rubidium> 1) I have no idea, 2) I did not write the C++ -> Squirrel interface, 3) I haven't written anything in Squirrel, 4) I have not time to take a proper look at it till at least late March.
22:52:51  <DirtYiCE> who wrote the interface? TrueLight?
22:53:05  <Rubidium> yup
22:53:22  <DirtYiCE> but he is retired afaik..
22:53:33  <Rubidium> that's true too
22:53:45  <DirtYiCE> damn..
22:53:54  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:54:00  <DirtYiCE> how could i contact him?
22:55:14  *** Tekky [~Tekky@p5493F986.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
22:55:25  <Rubidium> try PM-ing him
22:59:54  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12073 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: stop drawing trees a bit earlier when they are invisible
23:04:04  *** Korenn [~blaat@78-27-14-50.dsl.alice.nl] has quit []
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23:06:41  <Barry> Hello
23:06:45  <Barry> Anybody here
23:07:53  <Rubidium> nope
23:08:01  <Sacro> nope
23:08:06  <Barry> hehhe
23:08:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r12074 /trunk/src/tree_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: use C++ variable scope and declaration in DrawTile_Trees()
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23:08:28  <Sacro> CIA-5: ssssshh
23:08:32  <Barry> When I have trouble with compling patches where can I get some help?
23:08:39  <Sacro> Barry: try the internet
23:08:54  <Barry> haha
23:09:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12075 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: Remove explicit numbering on command enum, and remove blanks from command list where old commands have been removed.
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23:19:00  <fjb> Barry: At least you found the internet. What trouble do you have?
23:23:38  <Barry> I work with BuildOTTD and I get a failure when I compile some patches. i wish to integrate some patches in the latest nightly for own use
23:26:44  * Zr40 pokes any dev
23:26:55  <fjb> The patches are for an older nightly build I guess. You have to look at the error messages and then alter the patch according.
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23:44:06  <fjb> Hm, my trains seam to overlook the depots with YAPP v3.
23:45:24  <fjb> And putting the depot into the orders to go there only for service they always go into the depot.
23:46:11  <fjb> Occasionally a trains finds a depot for service every few years.
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