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00:01:08 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:01:40 *** Ammlller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-47-193.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 00:05:37 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-54-170.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12489 /trunk/src/ (54 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: split station.h into station_base.h and station_func.h. 00:09:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12490 /trunk/src/ (47 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: rename engine.h to engine_func.h and remove unneeded inclusions of engine.h and/or replace them with engine_type.h. 00:36:26 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77C03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:42:51 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7585B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:54:09 *** mindlesstux [~mindlesst@2001:470:8805:aaaa:250:2cff:fe07:ff2c] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:12:07 *** sunkan [as@sunkan.bsnet.se] has quit [Quit: - 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This makes reading the docs more easy 06:32:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: Removed unneeded comments which were direct copy/paste all over the place 06:32:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: missing $Id$ tags 06:33:00 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 06:33:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12492 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.hpp ai_vehiclelist.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: missing propset 06:34:08 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12493 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Remove [API CHANGE]: AIPathFinder should never been part of this API (more like a contrib or extended something) 06:37:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12494 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12493: update MSVC project files when removing files 06:42:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12495 /trunk/src/ (18 files): -Codechange: reduce the dependency on newgrf_station.h (especially because newgrf_station.h includes a lot of stuff). 06:45:54 <Celestar> @openttd bugs 06:45:56 <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 30; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 7; Opened this week: 17 06:45:59 <Celestar> ? 06:46:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12496 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (37 files): 06:46:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: give the .cpp files a nice uniform format too 06:46:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed the last missing $Id$ and propset 06:49:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12497 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: AIMap.DemolishTile -> AITile.DemolishTile (that makes much more sense, doesn't it? ;)) 06:49:24 <Celestar> why does a "sound cracking" bug have "high" severity? 06:50:44 <Patrick`> because it actually affects something the end-user experiences? 06:51:20 <peter1138> because users think their bug is most important 06:51:28 <Celestar> :P 06:51:31 * Celestar is downgrading it 06:56:40 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:56:40 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:58:40 <Rubidium> Celestar: new bugs, most the cause of the RC but none of them are actually interesting :( 07:03:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12498 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: bring a little 'order' to openttd.cpp's includes and do not 'define' VARDEF for files that do not have them anymore. 07:03:53 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82AB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:04:14 <peter1138> Just remove all VARDEFs! 07:04:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's a VARDEF anyway? 07:04:43 <peter1138> A lazy construct. 07:04:54 <Rubidium> that's the final plan, but this is just preventing people from adding VARDEFs to most of the code-base 07:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> and what's bad about laziness ;) 07:05:48 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 07:05:51 <Celestar> VARDEFs suck 07:06:03 <Celestar> variable definitions shouldn't be in headers. 07:06:20 <Celestar> whatever ... /me goes to work 07:11:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12499 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: some coding style tweaks for network_internal.h. 07:11:55 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 07:12:08 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:13:31 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:17 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-47-193.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 07:18:25 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 07:19:24 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has joined #openttd 07:21:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12500 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (6 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: many comment changes, mostly Capitals and lines end with a dot. Makes doxygen look pretty :) 07:24:31 *** caladan [~caladan@arn149.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 07:26:01 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has joined #openttd 07:26:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12501 /trunk/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: split signs.h. 07:26:41 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-136-232-74.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:26:57 <Celestar> wow Rubidium :) 07:27:09 <Celestar> you're really pissed at the state of the header files aren't you? 07:27:27 <Rubidium> somewhat yeah 07:27:40 <Celestar> not without reason ;) 07:27:49 * peter1138 ponders testing the build time now 07:29:19 * Celestar wonders whether Rubidium will help him with syncing NewGRF_ports now ;) 07:29:31 <Celestar> peter1138: is it me or did the build time get out of hand? 07:29:59 <peter1138> it did, not helped by moving to c++ but it got worse after that 07:30:12 * peter1138 times it 07:30:27 <Celestar> peter1138: debug or no debug? ;) 07:30:28 <ln> just buy 4-core machines, people 07:30:30 <Rubidium> some templates are pretty heavy 07:30:34 <peter1138> debug 07:30:51 <peter1138> but i like my 8 year old machine, ln 07:31:02 <caladan> hmm, use some distcc? :D 07:31:18 <Celestar> man ... LHR's terminal 5 is really a disaster, right? ;) 07:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> a what? 07:31:41 <Celestar> forget it ? ;) 07:31:42 <Rubidium> I just thought they continued to improve their record 07:32:14 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah, apart from the fact that they ask people not to bring luggage because the luggage system doesn't work, everything else is ok. 07:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: well, i haven't been to that many airports 07:32:58 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: Heathrow sucks. Ass. 07:33:19 <Celestar> it's _almost_ as bad as Charles-de-Gaulle 07:34:00 <caladan> and not as bad as the one in Warsaw ;-) 07:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> what are the criteria for judging the suckiness of an airport? 07:34:56 <Rubidium> number of lost pieces of luggage a minute and number of canceled flight per minute being more than resp. 50 and 1? 07:35:18 <peter1138> Monty Python already did a song about it... 07:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, and you already have a patch for it ;) 07:35:39 <peter1138> # And I'm worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at Heathrow 07:36:04 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: lost luggage, delays, cancellations, signage, roofs falling on passengers.... 07:36:34 <Celestar> :o 3:39 for building ottd 07:37:16 <Celestar> caladan: _nothing_ sucks as much as does LHR or CDG. well ... JFK maybe 07:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> i've been to munich airport some 10 years ago 07:37:33 <Celestar> :) 07:37:49 <peter1138> real 4m48.500s 07:37:53 <peter1138> although 07:37:58 <peter1138> user 3m19.248s 07:37:58 <peter1138> sys 0m28.458s 07:38:12 <caladan> Celestar: you see, the airport in warsaw is almost in the center of city. no way to get there in rush hours, and its overcrowded :] 07:38:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12502 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.hpp ai_industry.hpp ai_map.hpp ai_marine.hpp): [NoAI] -Documentation: even more comment consistancy 07:38:18 <Celestar> 158.721u 16.273s 3:39.05 79.8% 0+0k 0+0io 14pf+0w 07:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> i shoul have timed svn up first ;) 07:39:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:39:43 <Celestar> hey Eddi|zuHause2 07:40:14 * Celestar wonders which part of the compilation is so slow :S 07:40:23 <peter1138> yapf ;) 07:40:39 <Celestar> :P 07:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> but yapf didn't really change 07:40:55 <Celestar> find *.h | wc -l 07:40:55 <Celestar> 176 07:41:14 <Celestar> that's a crapload 07:41:17 <Celestar> or a fuckton 07:41:28 <ln> real 0m28.633s 07:41:28 <ln> user 1m32.208s 07:43:25 <Rubidium> Celestar: yes, it's a lot but reducing the size (and thus dependency on other headers) of the headers helps quite a bit in compile time 07:44:18 <Celestar> I quite agree 07:44:23 <Celestar> I was just wondering ;) 07:44:28 *** snorre [~snorre@84.53.58.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> real 4m39.522s 07:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> user 3m36.342s 07:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> sys 0m14.665s 07:45:53 <Rubidium> Celestar, about NewGRF_ports: I've quite given up on that one 07:46:26 <Celestar> Rubidium: the syncing? 07:46:44 <Rubidium> it getting finished within reasonable time 07:46:53 <Celestar> Rubidium: it basically is finished ;) 07:47:08 <Celestar> we need one more newgrf features (station animation) and it's done. 07:47:11 <Celestar> grep -c "^#include" * | awk -F: '{print " " }' | sort -n | tail -3 07:47:11 <Celestar> 48 train_cmd.cpp 07:47:11 <Celestar> 50 main_gui.cpp 07:47:11 <Celestar> 70 openttd.cpp 07:47:11 <Rubidium> Celestar: no it is NOT 07:47:22 <Celestar> 70 includes? :o 07:47:39 <Celestar> Rubidium: what's missing? 07:47:40 <Rubidium> Celestar: and they're all needed -> ergo openttd.cpp has become one big mess 07:47:59 <Rubidium> Celestar: it is one big copy-paste which is already unmaintainable 07:48:15 <Rubidium> furthermore there are todos and warnings all over the place 07:48:23 <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll see through the newgrf_port code and see what can be done. 07:48:26 <Rubidium> coding style suck as much as T5 07:48:33 <Celestar> that's bad. 07:48:41 <Celestar> so you suggest starting over? 07:48:56 <Rubidium> and RichK couldn't be 'bothered' about coding style because he first wanted to get it working 07:49:13 <Rubidium> that reminds me of TGP which also took a few months of work after he said it was finished 07:49:23 <Celestar> ;) 07:49:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have voiced my concern about "first get it working" before... 07:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> only i have no voice 07:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> so nobody listens ;) 07:50:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12503 /branches/noai/ (140 files in 7 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12461:12501. 07:51:11 <Celestar> lol 07:51:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: only RichK doesn't listen 07:51:31 <Celestar> Rubidium: so .. start over and implement the features in an orderly style? 07:51:51 <Rubidium> Celestar: and RichK's last episode doesn't encourage me to continue with his work either. 07:52:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 07:55:24 <Celestar> what happened? 07:55:28 <Rubidium> Celestar: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=675071#p675071 07:56:10 <Rubidium> he basically said that we didn't plan ahead because we didn't add much unused free bytes to the map in one go 07:58:23 *** snorre [~snorre@84.53.58.1] has joined #openttd 07:58:35 <Celestar> what do we need that 1 bit for? 07:58:55 <Rubidium> for his 'all climate world map' idea 07:59:06 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:59:06 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:26 <Rubidium> but that isn't the problem, it's just that he blames us for trying to keep the savegame file as small as possible with the current features 07:59:50 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82AB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:18 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think he missed the point that the extension of the map array was not meant to be static, but that it can easily be extended further if necessary 08:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> and this was a suggestion independent from richk: http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/openttd/terrain.png 08:07:19 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@137.81.113.87] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.] 08:08:08 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 08:08:11 <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll try to re-implement, k? 08:08:42 <peter1138> most of it just station code anyway 08:09:01 <Celestar> 'yah 08:09:05 <Celestar> peter1138: will you help? ;) 08:09:25 <Rubidium> Celestar: better get station anims working first :) 08:10:00 * peter1138 coughs at his patch 08:10:02 <Celestar> good point. peter1138 has it working? ;) 08:11:00 <peter1138> partly 08:11:08 <peter1138> as in, probably but not completely tested 08:11:14 <peter1138> and some triggers are not in place 08:13:30 <peter1138> gah, aero is shit 08:15:53 *** Axamentia [~SlayerRag@78-105-140-209.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:23 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77C03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:48 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77C03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:20:50 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 08:23:17 *** amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has joined #openttd 08:23:38 <amix> just want you to know that SDL is now ported to symbian mobiles 08:23:40 <amix> http://koti.mbnet.fi/~mertama/sdl.html 08:23:55 <amix> openttd on Nokia E90 would be great! 08:24:39 <Phantasm> Lol. 08:25:00 <Celestar> amix: what's the display size on that device? 08:25:09 <Trond> is the big screenshot option broken, or is it just that my system cannot handle the huge png/bmp files? 08:25:21 <Rubidium> Trond: broken in what manner? 08:25:25 <Phantasm> Celestar: 800x352 08:25:31 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@192.87.217.35] has joined #openttd 08:25:38 <Trond> broken in the manner that I get a file I cannot open... 08:25:44 <Rubidium> amix: AFAIK there's already a symbian port somewhere 08:26:06 <Phantasm> How well does it run? As long as you don't play bigger maps than 64x64? ;P 08:26:08 <Rubidium> then you most liky do not have enough memory 08:26:41 <Trond> 2gb isnt enough for a 600mb file? 08:26:42 <amix> hehe 08:26:53 <Phantasm> Might be so. 08:26:57 <Trond> the files come out around 600mb :P 08:27:06 <amix> Celestar: 800x352 08:27:10 <Rubidium> Trond: not when it's highly compressed and your view is lame enough to uncompress it in memory 08:27:10 <Gekz> Phantasm: I ran OpenTTD on my Palm TX 08:27:13 <Gekz> 16MB of ram 08:27:15 <Gekz> lol 08:27:17 <Gekz> 300MHz 08:27:21 <Gekz> played 256x256 maps 08:27:25 <Gekz> do not use the new ai >_> 08:27:32 <Phantasm> Hehe. 08:27:36 <Trond> my view? meaning the app I use? 08:27:56 <amix> Rubidium: there is? 08:28:13 <amix> psp have it 08:28:31 <Rubidium> well, it should work on E60 08:28:34 <amix> openttd on e90 would be great 08:28:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@192.87.217.35] has quit [] 08:28:49 <Celestar> amix: that should be enough :) 08:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have had problems with big png files independent from ottd 08:29:04 <amix> E90 got 128mb internal mem 08:29:17 <amix> got PowerVR 3D 08:29:28 <Phantasm> Out of which about 80 MB is free after the OS and stuff. 08:29:30 <amix> 330MHz ARM 08:29:41 <amix> Phantasm: no 08:29:43 <Celestar> 80 MB .. 08:29:46 <amix> 128mb 08:29:47 <Trond> ok eddi, I guess I'll try with a smaller map and see if that works... I tried open them with irfanview, paintshoppro, paint... 08:30:03 <Phantasm> amix: 128 MB out of which the OS uses about 50 MB. 08:30:34 <amix> Celestar: well.. lots of programs is installed on internal mem 08:30:38 <Rubidium> Trond: what size map did you screendump by the way? 08:30:38 <amix> also some pics etc 08:30:43 <amix> which takes space 08:31:03 <Trond> I think its 1024x2048 08:31:07 <amix> make use of the memcard would be nice 08:31:10 <Phantasm> amix: Don't talk about memory when refering to storage space. 08:31:25 <amix> Phantasm: hrhr 08:31:29 <amix> i am an amigan 08:31:35 <amix> we store stuff in ram disk 08:31:37 <amix> haha 08:31:38 <amix> ;p 08:31:39 <Rubidium> @openttd calc 1024x32x2048x64/1024 08:31:46 <Rubidium> @calc 1024x32x2048x64/1024 08:31:47 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Error: invalid syntax (line 1) 08:31:49 <Gekz> lol 08:31:52 <peter1138> * ;) 08:31:55 <Rubidium> @calc 1024*32*2048*64/1024 08:31:56 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 4194304 08:32:13 <Rubidium> so it'd just need 4 GB to uncompress the png 08:32:18 <amix> well 08:32:20 <amix> quake 1 08:32:21 <Trond> ouch 08:32:23 <amix> and quake 3 08:32:24 <amix> 2 08:32:28 <amix> runs on e90 now 08:32:38 <amix> runs nice even 08:32:44 <Phantasm> E90 got 256 MB of NAND that allows a max of 128 MB user storage.. It has 128 MB of SDRAM memory of which about 80 MB is free after OS and such.. Upto 4 GB MicroSD card is officially supported. 08:32:45 <Rubidium> and that means that only 64 bits binaries can open the png 'the lame way' 08:32:51 <Trond> that explains it I guess, thanks rubidium :) 08:33:05 <Gekz> Rubidium: the lame way/ 08:33:13 <Trond> what programs does not open it the lame way then? :D 08:33:44 <amix> Phantasm: then symbian supports virtualmem i guess 08:33:55 <amix> since quake 2 requires a lot 08:34:07 <mrfrenzy> ottd runs really nice on sony ericsson M600i, BUT, the small screen makes it impossible to play 08:34:07 <amix> more than 64mb 08:34:13 <Phantasm> I'm sure symbian port of Q2 won't require more than 80 MB. 08:34:29 <Phantasm> Does the symbian port of Q2 run on say E70? 08:34:32 <amix> openttd port would? 08:34:41 <amix> Phantasm: try 08:34:51 <amix> http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/Download.html 08:35:28 <amix> Phantasm: openttd could use of 3D to make openttd run faster also 08:35:37 <Rubidium> Trond: no idea, but maybe some of the command line conversion tools 08:35:50 <peter1138> use 3d? hah 08:35:53 <Rubidium> amix: please provide proof for that statement 08:35:58 <Phantasm> 25-30 MB of free RAM for symbian Q2. 08:35:59 <Trond> okey 08:36:09 <amix> Rubidium: what statement? 08:36:15 <Phantasm> Some more for hardware renderer. 08:36:22 <peter1138> 10-20MB RAM is enough for openttd 08:36:24 <Rubidium> amix: that 3D make openttd run faster 08:36:33 <amix> well 08:36:43 <amix> quake 2 uses gl on e90 08:36:47 <amix> makes it runs faster 08:36:57 <amix> same with amiga emulator 08:37:06 <amix> with gl, it renders faster 08:37:09 <Phantasm> Software rendering uses the CPU, while hardware rendering uses the GPU more or less. 08:37:30 <Phantasm> So, using hardware rendering, more of the CPU should be free for other stuff. 08:38:18 * Rubidium wonders whether gl can handle 10.000+ textures, especially on a symbian 08:39:00 <amix> well, e90 got wlan, hsdpa support. playing openttd on it would be great. a neat feature for it would be keymapping offcourse. build with one key, move arround with others. in that way, a mobile version would be nice 08:39:03 <Rubidium> or even *many* more when you have many NewGRFs loaded 08:40:50 <amix> http://my-symbian.com/s60v3/software/applications.php?fldAuto=225&faq=9 08:41:00 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:01 <amix> duke nukem 3d is now out also 08:41:03 <amix> :) 08:42:08 <amix> Phantasm: i am using morphos, macosx, symbian and windows 08:42:35 <amix> i love morphos, idore macosx, use symbian, play in windows 08:42:39 <amix> ;) 08:42:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12504 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (9 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: the last few files which now are consistent in their comments (anyway, so I hope :)) 08:43:13 <Gekz> CIA-1: Baisez tu! 08:43:46 <Phantasm> amix: Which windows? 08:44:04 <amix> win2k, xp 08:44:10 <amix> i dont like vista 08:44:59 <Phantasm> You should use 2003 or 2008 server as workstation. 08:45:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12505 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (7 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: still forgot some files ;) (minor stuff, capitals mostly) 08:45:48 <Rubidium> hmm... 2008 server... oh, lets add a big fat 3D graphics card to the requirements of our server software 08:45:51 <Celestar> you should use a proper OS as a workstation. 08:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Gekz: "-ez" and "tu" don't really match 08:45:59 <amix> Phantasm: i use morphos 99% of the time 08:46:02 <amix> rest is macosx 08:46:05 <Rubidium> because maybe you want to play CounterStrike on your server 08:46:06 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah. possibly Quad SLI so that the system becomes stable. 08:46:08 <Phantasm> Rubidium: There is also server core for 2008 server that has no GUI. 08:46:32 <Celestar> there are also OSes that actually WORK as a server. 08:46:32 <Phantasm> Only command line interface. 08:46:36 <Celestar> for example linux 08:46:41 <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: I fail grammar in frenfh 08:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> i concur ;) 08:46:52 <Phantasm> Not that I would use windows * server as server. 08:47:09 <Rubidium> Phantasm: and you think that the gui-less server gets used? Really...? 08:47:28 *** snorre [~snorre@84.53.58.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:47:38 <Gekz> rofl 08:47:41 <Gekz> I spelt french wrong 08:47:44 * Gekz is on a rol 08:47:45 <Gekz> ... 08:47:50 * Gekz kills thyself 08:47:53 <Phantasm> Rubidium: Prolly not.. But I don't think it needs much of a video card to work even with gui. All aero and such are disabled by default.. 08:48:01 <Rubidium> oh... the boss doesn't pay my: how to use the keyboard bootcamp course of 14 days with Microsoft, well, then add the big fat 3D card to the server 08:48:33 * Celestar is running SLES10 on all servers 08:48:47 <Celestar> and non-Windows ans non-linux OSes on firewalls 08:48:51 *** Morloth [~Morloth@ip503cbc92.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 08:48:55 <Phantasm> But for windows workstation, 2008 server is like vista without all the bloat and such (you can even have it without windows media player).. And 2003 server is like xp. 08:49:34 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 08:50:50 <Maedhros> Gekz: "thyself" refers to the person you're talking to :p 08:52:34 <Rubidium> hmm... wonders how much 'no-GUI' is when one is being able to play solitaire 08:53:16 <Phantasm> Rubidium: I don't think one can play solitaire on server core install. 08:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm sure there are aalib based X servers ;) 08:53:42 <Rubidium> Phantasm: http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2007/10/30/116462.aspx <- rethink your statement please 08:54:08 <Phantasm> Löl. 08:54:48 <Phantasm> Light GUI then. ;P 08:54:52 <Celestar> "(And that's including the 2 reboots, hardware detection, and everything!)" 08:55:00 <Celestar> why the FUCK does an installation need 2 reboots?! 08:55:06 <Celestar> ONE ok. but two? 08:55:22 <Maedhros> "The thing is lean and mean, and can run very well in just half a gig of RAM" 08:55:27 <Celestar> lol 08:55:42 * Celestar wonders why they don't even pack a proper editor :S 08:55:51 <Phantasm> Half a gig of ram and no swap and you can't start notepad on vista. ;P 08:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> windows always needed two reboots 08:56:07 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: how many kernels does it have?! 08:56:09 *** caladan [~caladan@arn149.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> one after it set up the installation system, and one after it configured the hardware 08:57:00 * peter1138 ponders getting a Q6600 and clocking it at 3GHz 08:57:11 <Phantasm> peter1138: Why only 3? 08:57:21 <Phantasm> And if you want 60% the heat, get Q9450. 08:57:25 <peter1138> because that's the safest overclock, heh 08:57:26 <Phantasm> Those are properly available now. 08:57:47 <Phantasm> Safest... Any overclock is safe IF you test it is safe.. Nothing is safe before you test it. 08:57:52 <Phantasm> Not even default clock. 08:58:20 <Phantasm> Q9450 might not overclock that much though.. 08:58:22 *** snorre [~snorre@84.53.58.1] has joined #openttd 09:00:56 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has joined #openttd 09:01:00 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:08 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:02:45 <peter1138> Q9450 costs considerably more than the Q6600 09:03:40 <peter1138> and as you say, as it already has a 1333 FSB, it won't overclock so well 09:03:48 <Celestar> I'd go Q9300 09:03:59 <Phantasm> FSB won't matter if you get suitable motherboard. 09:04:01 <peter1138> might just stick with the E8400 09:04:15 <Phantasm> Celestar: And half the L2? 09:04:38 <peter1138> One core is enough for ottd, so... ;) 09:04:39 <Celestar> Phantasm: and? 09:04:49 <Celestar> Phantasm: it's faster than the Q6600 09:05:02 <peter1138> Q6600 @ 3GHz is fast ;) 09:05:36 <Phantasm> Celestar: I'm actually not sure about that. 09:05:37 * Celestar doesn't like overclocking 09:05:45 <Celestar> Phantasm: in every review it is 09:05:50 <peter1138> hence why i will probably stick to the E8400 09:05:58 *** ManiaMuse [~MR@cpc3-stap2-0-0-cust223.nott.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:07:13 <Phantasm> Does Q9300 OC well? 09:07:52 <Phantasm> If not, then perhaps Q6600 is best cheap one for OC.. But otherwise Q9* are better quads as they only produce about 60% the heat. 09:08:35 <Celestar> Phantasm: and are faster clock-for-clock. not much, but a little 09:08:43 <Celestar> and the Q9300 seems to go 3.2-3.4 on air ... 09:08:54 <Phantasm> Nothing special then. 09:09:04 <Phantasm> About same for Q9450... Effectively not worth the effort. 09:09:07 <peter1138> 2.5 -> 3.4 is quite a lot 09:09:57 <amix> so 09:10:08 <amix> you know where the symbian build is? 09:10:16 <amix> i would love to be a betatester 09:10:18 <peter1138> Hmm, E8400, £124.99, Q6600, £125 09:10:36 <Celestar> lol 09:10:37 <Phantasm> I won't bother trying to OC Q9450.. Even if it may go to 3-3.4 GHz, the OC is so small it is not worth the more expensive mobo etc and all the effort. 09:10:42 <amix> ive been betatester for wirelessirc, delfmpeg etc 09:11:42 <Phantasm> For OC to be worth trying, it would take about 30% guaranteed OC without voltage raise. 09:12:19 <Phantasm> Some OC tests for Q9450 have used quite a lot of extra voltage to achieve the OC and as such it easily gets out of the quiet comp.. 09:12:25 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:13:10 <Phantasm> PSU starts to make too much noise when the CPU eats too much power (along with 3D card and all the other stuff). 09:13:16 <Celestar> Phantasm: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_6.html#sect0 09:13:54 <Celestar> Phantasm: page 4 and 5 are interesting as well (vs 6600 and vs 8500) 09:14:36 *** ManiaMuse [~MR@cpc3-stap2-0-0-cust223.nott.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:15:38 <peter1138> Phantasm: that's the point, the Q6600 does not need a more expensive board to overclock, as even the cheap ones do an FSB faster than the CPU 09:16:04 * peter1138 underclocks his Athlon XP 2000+ to 1250MHz atm 09:16:27 <Phantasm> Yep, that is why I don't bother trying to OC Q9450.. And I ordered it because of the less heat than Q6600. 09:17:16 * Celestar doesn't OC 09:17:33 <Phantasm> My current one is 2.5 GHz opteron 165 (1.8 GHz normally). 09:19:09 <Phantasm> Celestar: The OCs done there make the power consumption go havoc. 09:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> who remembers the days when 25MHz was a high end PC, and they had "turbo" buttons to downclock them? 09:20:15 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: I remember my first C64 .... 09:20:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12506 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/Doxyfile: 09:20:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added Doxyfile in src/ai/api to generate the AIDocs (as on http://devs.openttd.org/~noai/aidocs/ ) 09:20:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: REQUIRES Doxygen >= 1.5.4, or documentation will be a mess 09:20:39 <Celestar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64 <= this one 09:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> the glorious days of DOSShell! 09:21:46 <Phantasm> I remember my first Aquarius. 09:21:50 <Phantasm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattel_Aquarius 09:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> which was just a lousy attempt to beat the dominant Norton Commander 09:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> and nobody heard of "browser wars" yet 09:22:29 <Phantasm> I had a game book for it.. The book had source codes of games I could type in the machine to play.. And then record them to audi o casettes. 09:25:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12507 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (Doxyfile ai_object.cpp ai_object.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: enable Doxyfile warning about missing params and fix 3 missing params in AIObject 09:27:09 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 09:27:16 <peter1138> Phantasm: basic listings were common in those days... 09:27:52 <Celestar> greato. 09:27:59 <Celestar> FFVII hangs in the final battle 09:28:04 <Gekz> lol 09:28:05 <Gekz> win 09:28:15 <Celestar> how .. :P 09:28:23 <Gekz> the situation lets you be free 09:28:31 <Gekz> you realise that the game owned you up until this point 09:28:33 <Gekz> you may leave now 09:28:38 <Celestar> I will 09:28:42 * Celestar gets himself lunch 09:28:44 <Gekz> lol 09:32:12 <ln> Gekz: your lol quota for today has been exceeded. 09:32:34 <Celestar> lol 09:33:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12508 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.hpp ai_tile.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: @note that refer to @return should come after @return, not before @param 09:33:24 <peter1138> bloody noai spam ;p 09:33:46 <Celestar> (= 09:34:37 <Gekz> ln: lololooloololooloolol 09:34:44 <Gekz> ça va? 09:34:59 <ln> English only. 09:35:19 <Celestar> cool. 09:35:33 <Celestar> The russians have built the first prototype of a mobile nuclear power plant 09:35:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> does it fit in a pocket yet? 09:36:10 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: no, it's a naval vehicle. 09:36:17 <Celestar> about the size of a large ferry 09:36:34 <Celestar> enough to supply a town of 200.000 people 09:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> great... as if illegal disposal of waste is not a big enough problem already 09:37:14 * Celestar fails to see the connection 09:37:21 <Gekz> lol 09:37:46 <Gekz> russian + nuclear waste + waterways unguarded = glowing penis syndrome 09:37:58 <Celestar> rofl 09:38:01 <Phantasm> Indeed... 09:38:11 *** edeca [~bored@beefy.two-pebbles.com] has joined #openttd 09:38:19 <Gekz> "IT TINGLES MOMMY!" "Don't touch it." 09:38:36 <edeca> Hrm, does the UK train renewal set not work with current openttd? It says that the climate bit is incorrect no matter what I set it to :( 09:38:44 <Celestar> well, apparently the idea seems as China, Namibia and South Korea already showed interest in purchasing some. 09:39:06 <Celestar> s/seems/sells 09:39:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:40:21 <Celestar> the mobile NPP costs apparently only 300 million EUR 09:40:39 <Phantasm> As if Russia wasn't bad enough.. Now they are giving it away to China etc... 09:41:56 <Gekz> Lets give idiots da bomb so they may spam 09:42:01 <Gekz> All your base are belong to us 09:42:47 <Celestar> Phantasm: giving what away exactly? 09:42:56 <Celestar> it's not that the Chinese dunno how to build a NPP 09:44:28 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:45:03 <Phantasm> Yea, but they haven't done it. 09:45:17 <Celestar> er? 09:45:26 <Gekz> the chinese are busy breeding like chinese people. 09:45:31 <Gekz> and making smog clouds. 09:45:32 <Phantasm> It is so much easier to dump radioactive stuff from mobile npp than from one on land. 09:45:49 <Gekz> not really 09:45:59 <Phantasm> A naval vessel + big enough npp -> they can effectively load any radioactive material there and just drop it all they care. 09:46:00 <Gekz> "Alright kids, powers out until we empty this steam chubby!" 09:46:15 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 09:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> Phantasm: there are international institutions that watch very closely which bit of radioactive material goes where 09:46:34 <Celestar> .oO(people have VERY weird ideas about nuclear power) 09:46:36 <Gekz> too bad china says go away 09:46:49 <Phantasm> Eddi|zuHause2: Yes, and how do they plan on doing that on every naval vessel carrying npp? 09:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> "every"? 09:47:10 <Celestar> Phantasm: do you know how many nuclear powered vessels we have today? 09:47:22 <Phantasm> Celestar: As long as they are small enough there isn't much of a problem. 09:47:31 <Celestar> Russia has a fleet of like 100 nuclear ice-breakers alone ... 09:47:43 <Celestar> Phantasm: I don't see size being an issue 09:47:43 <Phantasm> But capably of supplying a town of 200k people gives some size. 09:47:58 <Phantasm> The bigger it is the easier it is to hide some extra stuff around. 09:48:00 <edeca> Most people don't realise that half of the power plant at Chernobyl was active until way into the 1990s :) 09:48:00 <Gekz> I dont like nuclear anything 09:48:01 <Gekz> >_> 09:48:09 <Celestar> Phantasm: yes, that's 60MW. that's 1/4th of what the Nimitz-Class has. 09:48:16 <edeca> Gekz: Hope you never get cancer then.. 09:48:31 <Gekz> edeca: so do I 09:48:33 <Gekz> clearly. 09:48:40 <edeca> Gekz: Heh, well it's all radiation :) 09:48:54 <Celestar> cancer has been around since the beginning of life ... it's nothing to do with nuclear power plants. 09:48:58 <Gekz> too bad its a concentrated dose of carbonfuck 09:49:05 <edeca> Celestar: I wasn't suggesting that 09:49:10 <Celestar> edeca: good ;) 09:49:12 <edeca> Celestar: But modern treatments rely on blatting your cells with radiation :P 09:49:20 <Celestar> hehe 09:49:41 <edeca> Celestar: As do some forms of scans where they inject you with radioactive materials :) 09:49:53 <Celestar> edeca: there are even scans where they use antimatter 09:49:59 <Celestar> called "PET" 09:49:59 <Gekz> lol 09:50:00 <edeca> Hahaha 09:50:00 <Gekz> no they dont 09:50:04 <Celestar> Gekz: YES they do 09:50:06 <Gekz> NO 09:50:08 <Gekz> NO THEY DO NOT 09:50:19 * Celestar suggests that you have nfi 09:50:27 * Gekz suggests you want to have nfi 09:50:51 <Celestar> Gekz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography <= for the beginners 09:51:09 <Gekz> I'M SORRY, I'M NOT GAY 09:51:18 <edeca> I still stand by my previous point. So many people say "radiation is bad, look at Chernobyl!" then argue like schoolgirls when you tell them it was generating power until 2000 09:51:19 <Gekz> lol, caps. 09:51:51 <edeca> s/radiation/nuklar powar/ 09:51:56 <Celestar> what does being gay having to do with anti-matter? 09:51:58 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:52:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12509 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: add some missing return/parameter documentation; probably not the last, but Doxygen couldn't find these. 09:52:19 <edeca> Celestar: Ah, that's the form of scanning I was referring to 09:52:23 <edeca> Celestar: Now I know the name, ta! 09:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> in what kind of physics a positron is antimatter? 09:52:38 <Celestar> edeca: in every 09:52:49 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: in the Standard Model?! 09:52:56 <edeca> I imagined antimatter as some sort of science fiction stuff, but meh :) 09:53:01 <Celestar> a Positron is an anti-electron. 09:53:16 <edeca> I want to edit that picture so it says "COMPUTAR" below the terminal.. mwuhaha 09:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, probably i mixed up stuff 09:54:05 <Celestar> same mass, same spin, same group, same generation, opposite charge => anti-particle 09:55:15 * Celestar wonders why Gekz is so quiet all of a sudden :P 09:55:39 *** hylje [hylje@c214.myrootshell.com] has joined #openttd 09:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, it's the dangerous kind of half-knowledge about quantum mechanics ;) 09:56:13 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: lol yeah. the half that goes "boom" or the half that goes "bam!" ? 09:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. 09:59:22 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:00:39 <edeca> Does anybody here know why the uk train renewal set doesn't work with my current openttd though (openttd + yapp from buildottd). I mean, that's got to be more important than anti-matter ;) 10:01:52 <Celestar> edeca: does it work with vanilla openttd? 10:02:11 <edeca> Good question, let's try 10:02:55 <Maedhros> edeca: which climate are you trying to use ukrs in? 10:03:18 <edeca> Sub tropical or temperate 10:03:34 <edeca> In the newgrf window it says that the climate bit is wrong when set to 1 2 or 3 10:03:48 <Celestar> set it to 0? ;) 10:04:03 <Rubidium> so you're in subtropical and it (UKRS) needs to have temperate 10:04:15 <edeca> Heh, that's not an option either. Darn, it works in vanilla. Must be broken buildottd or yapp 10:04:28 <edeca> Rubidium: Sorry, I meant arctic 10:04:39 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has joined #openttd 10:04:41 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c122-107-243-224.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:05:03 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has quit [] 10:05:55 <edeca> OK, it works now.. I must have been smoking something earlier :| 10:06:16 <edeca> Shame that I'd just started breaking even in my old game without it. 10:06:19 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has joined #openttd 10:06:35 <Phantasm> Aww, Q9450 has half the L1 cache per core than Opteron 165. :/ 10:06:38 <edeca> I might have to compile on Windows myself though, too many patches I miss :( 10:10:58 <peter1138> Phantasm: it has more cores then ;) 10:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> so? you get 2% more cache misses then... 10:12:21 <Phantasm> Opteron has 64+64 kB L1 data+inst. And Q9450 has 32+32 kB L1 data+inst. 10:13:50 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:14:34 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F24C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:17:05 <Gekz> and they both suck 10:17:07 <Gekz> get over it 10:17:28 <peter1138> 386 must win, as it has no cache misses... 10:19:34 <Celestar> when was L1 cache first introduced? 10:28:54 <peter1138> For intel, it was the 486 10:29:01 <edeca> 1989 in the 486 10:29:21 <edeca> And 1995 for L2 cache by the looks of it 10:29:26 <edeca> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86 10:29:28 <Celestar> P-1 right? 10:29:58 <peter1138> hehe, 800 nm technology :D 10:30:29 *** Poopsmith [~Poopsmith@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:30:57 <peter1138> 8KB of L1 cache. 10:30:58 <Gekz> alright 10:31:01 <Gekz> does anyone here speak french 10:31:05 <Gekz> because I need help lol 10:31:10 <Gekz> ln: shhh 10:31:14 <Celestar> only if I'm forced to :P 10:31:22 <Gekz> i just need to know if this is valid 10:31:31 <Gekz> "Ma mere nom <name>." 10:33:59 <Gekz> NO? 10:34:00 <Gekz> OK 10:34:22 <Celestar> MA mere <name> I'd say 10:34:26 <Celestar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Byte_magazine_September_1989_cover.png <= lol :) 10:35:40 <edeca> What's even more scary is that we'll be laughing at the consideration of a processor with only 4 cores and only 128K L1 cache in 20 years ;) 10:36:28 *** amix [~Amix2008@cm-84.208.143.45.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:38:32 <Celestar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png <= LOL 10:38:32 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:38:38 <Celestar> this is hilarious 10:39:05 <edeca> Itawhat? :) 10:39:09 <Celestar> well done Intel (= 10:39:23 <Celestar> Itanic 10:39:23 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:39:30 <edeca> Heh 10:41:46 <Gekz> lol fail 10:42:23 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:45:06 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has joined #openttd 10:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: does that picture imply that they released it 4 years too late? 10:48:48 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: appears so. Possibly ;) 10:49:06 <Celestar> 4 years late and a failure ... I think someone found himself a new job .... 10:55:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12510 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIError, which allows you to catch errors triggered by commands (Morloth) 10:56:16 <Celestar> hmpf 10:57:38 <edeca> 4 years late and a failure, would make a perfect policitian 10:57:44 <edeca> Even better if I could spell 10:58:30 <Celestar> Rubidium: peter1138: so the recommended procedure for newgrf_ports is re-implementation, do I read correctly? 11:00:12 <edeca> What is the chance of patches like yapp or the land cloning tool making it into trunk eventually? I'm sure it must get asked lots but they are the only two reasons I don't play trunk at the moment 11:00:48 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> yapp is very likely to get into trunk, if by "land cloning" you mean "copy paste", that is doubtful to be included 11:02:54 <edeca> Cool, how come? 11:03:02 <edeca> I'm glad about yapp, that's one of my biggest annoyances :) 11:03:09 <edeca> copy paste because of multiplayer? 11:06:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Top500.procfamily.png <- this is a much more interesting pictures 11:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> -s 11:08:18 <peter1138> stupid dates 11:08:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes they are 11:09:03 <peter1138> Where's ARM on that? 11:09:52 <peter1138> or rather 11:09:56 <peter1138> what is the "top 500"? 11:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> the top 500 supercomputers? 11:10:24 <peter1138> ahh 11:10:25 <peter1138> ok 11:13:02 <Phantasm> Copy/paste could be made such that for multiplayer, the host could enable/disable it.. 11:14:00 *** xerxes [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 11:14:04 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:15:13 <edeca> Yes, hence me wondering why it couldn't be in trunk 11:15:22 <edeca> Unless it is simply too difficult to keep up to date with map changes 11:15:40 <edeca> I haven't played in a while and there are lots of neat things in trunk now :) 11:15:48 <edeca> Like the little percentage above a loading train 11:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> there are also implementation details about it 11:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> look for previous discussions on the matter 11:16:18 <edeca> And grouping trains, mm. That's nice. 11:16:24 <edeca> s/trains/vehicles 11:17:04 <Celestar> I really should play it at some point :P 11:17:30 <edeca> Hrm, how about % loading? That would be nice too, I miss that 11:17:41 <edeca> The last time I played was when miniin was updated regularly, heh 11:20:10 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:11 *** xerxes is now known as shodan 11:20:42 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F668.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.exelor.de] 11:24:47 *** Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2C886.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:30:33 <Celestar> what about FS#1888? Switching grfs during the game is not really recommended, is it? 11:31:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12511 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add (WIP): AI Debug GUI. For now it is a stripped down copy of performance details. In future it will allow reloading of AI, changing settings, and reading the log of the AI 11:32:54 * Celestar wonders whether we should disable loading grfs during a running game 11:34:18 <Ammler> no :-( please not 11:34:35 <Gekz> Celestar: DO IT 11:34:43 <Gekz> Celestar: or at least, without them enabling a patch 11:34:48 <Maedhros> some of them are harmless - adding station / house grfs shouldn't cause a problem 11:35:05 <Maedhros> removing houses shouldn't be a problem either (i'm not sure about stations) 11:35:05 <Celestar> Maedhros: true. but maybe we should "mark" the savegame so that we know right away. 11:35:13 <Ammler> at least it should be possible to add industries 11:35:37 <Maedhros> Celestar: that's a good idea, yes 11:36:09 <Celestar> and then trash all bugs that have such savegames 11:36:28 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has joined #openttd 11:36:44 <Gekz> just for giggles 11:36:52 <Gekz> make it increment every time they change the grf 11:37:00 <Gekz> so you can say LOL NOOB YOU CHANGED IT 13421e3 times 11:37:22 <Celestar> haha 11:37:32 <Ammler> Gekz: there is already a msg box... 11:37:49 <Gekz> Ammler: idiots disregard them 11:37:55 <Gekz> thats why windows is such a success 11:38:04 <Gekz> "Press OK to proceed to destroy your system." 11:38:33 <Ammler> maybe you could take the time for fixing that, instead of blocking user from doing it 11:38:53 <Gekz> nah 11:38:55 <Gekz> block thjem 11:39:01 <Gekz> they need to be protected from themselves 11:39:13 <Maedhros> there are some things that can't be fixed - articulated vehicles becoming non-articulated, vehicles running on the wrong track-type 11:39:34 <Maedhros> trains finding themselves on parts of stations that they're not supposed to be able to use 11:39:38 <Ammler> Maedhros: adding newindustries to a scenario should be possible 11:39:49 <Ammler> (not changing) 11:40:23 <Maedhros> mmm. i don't know much about how newindustries works in openttd, to be honest 11:41:56 *** pm|work [~chatzilla@devera.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031115]] 11:42:00 <Ammler> the problem with it, some properities won't go to the save after generation the map and adding GRF after 11:42:17 <Ammler> something with cargo types 11:42:33 <Ammler> you don't get income for example sand, as coal works 11:43:40 <Ammler> means, you need to know, BEFORE you creating a scenario, which cargo types you like to use 11:45:40 <Ammler> and does also mean, you can't use existing GRFs 11:45:53 <Ammler> (existing scenarios) 11:47:51 <Mirrakor> wouldn't it be possible to allow "graphi change only" mode or something like this? Ignoring the other settings 11:52:45 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:57 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 11:54:40 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:57:47 <Ammler> [13:47] <Mirrakor> wouldn't it be possible to allow "graphi change only" mode or something like this? Ignoring the other settings <-- useless for newindustries, you need to alter save for cargo types 11:58:34 <Mirrakor> for newindustries yes - but for other stuff? 12:03:08 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c122-107-243-224.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:03:28 *** egladil [~egladil@83.233.184.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Mirrakor> wouldn't it be possible to allow "graphi change only" mode or something like this? Ignoring the other settings <- some special grfs can be put under [newgrf-static], these are graphical only 12:06:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the grfs have to be prepared for that, it won't work with most grfs 12:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> examples for this are tree replacement, catenary graphics and some bridge replacements 12:07:03 <Ammler> i.e. all OpenGFX grfs except landscape would work with static 12:07:31 <Ammler> (landscape doesn't because of the rivers) 12:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd kinda make sense to split the rivers from the landscape, or not? 12:10:21 <Mirrakor> if a train station accepts items - does it also mean it provides? 12:10:30 <Maedhros> no 12:11:01 <Mirrakor> do I only get them from industries? 12:12:59 <Maedhros> no, houses can produce things as well 12:13:00 <Ammler> you could use transfer 12:13:03 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd 12:14:03 <Mirrakor> oh sorry - I guess I phrased my question wrong: when it says "station xyz, accepts: mails, items, passengers" - does that mean I can get items from this station and transfer it to another station(which also accepts items) 12:16:33 <Maedhros> not unless you use transfers - otherwise the items will be delivered to the station and effectively disappear 12:17:14 <Maedhros> if you use transfers you can make them accumulate at that station instead so they can then be picked up again and delivered to the other station 12:18:15 <Mirrakor> so if build a transfer depot next to the train station the items can go on rthe rails? 12:23:16 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 12:25:45 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:26:12 <edeca> There's no such thing as a transfer depot.. 12:26:20 <edeca> You just include "transfer" in the orders 12:26:39 *** Morloth [~Morloth@ip503cbc92.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Morloth] 12:27:22 <Mirrakor> sorry, I meant a truck depot 12:28:18 <edeca> Ah, yes, you can transfer between trucks/trains/planes 12:28:23 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:24 <edeca> That works really nicely in some cases 12:30:02 <Mirrakor> edeca: now I've the following situation - I build two truck stations(which says "accepting: mail, items") - now I want to transfer those items.. but it doesn't seem to work - the truck keeps empty 12:31:03 <edeca> Well if you're definitely using the right sorts of trucks and something is producing 'items', I'm unsure why 12:31:25 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has joined #openttd 12:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Mirrakor: accepting != producing 12:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> goods are produced in a factory or a saw mill 12:31:56 <Mirrakor> yeah - that's exactly the point/problem - what does really produce such stuff? 12:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> or a refinery 12:32:05 <Mirrakor> okay, they're usually out of town 12:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> but only if you deliver raw materials 12:32:33 <edeca> Ah, sorry! :) 12:32:37 <edeca> I get it now 12:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> like if you transport wood from a forest to a saw mill, the saw mill will turn this wood into goods 12:32:49 <ln> given the number of recent Nazi-related movies, is there some company somewhere that is specialized in manufacturing uniforms for movie studios? 12:33:18 <Mirrakor> ln: yesterday I thought the same - they certainly could share some stuff.. 12:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: i have no idea 12:33:36 <Mirrakor> Eddi|zuHause2: so is it actually resonable to invest in goods? 12:34:04 <edeca> Mirrakor: Definitely! 12:34:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: usual problem is to justify that nazi-related stuff is not used for neonazi purposes 12:34:14 <edeca> Mirrakor: If you own the end-to-end goods chain, you'll make lots of money 12:34:25 <edeca> Mirrakor: Start by developing routes from the raw materials to the factory 12:34:31 <edeca> Mirrakor: Build up a town so it accepts goods 12:34:32 <ln> and question #2, does the copyright holder of the uniform design get royalties? (if it is a person, certainly he/she has not been dead for 70 years yet) 12:34:42 <edeca> Mirrakor: Then transport the goods to the town 12:34:52 <edeca> ln: Can you copyright a uniform? 12:35:00 <ln> edeca: sure, why not? 12:35:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: german law states that official signs of state institutions have to be public domain 12:35:21 <Mirrakor> ln: I don't think they get royalties, it's for a historic/documental reason 12:35:36 <edeca> ln: I didn't know of a "why not" :) 12:36:03 <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: m'kay 12:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. nobody can collect royalties on flags and stuff 12:36:49 *** SmatZ [~Miranda@edunat.felk.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 12:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure if that extends to uniforms 12:37:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> but be aware that these "flags and stuff" are subject to other laws beyond copyright 12:37:35 <Mirrakor> edeca: thanks for the info - is there any special kind of industrie you'd invest in? 12:38:16 <edeca> Mirrakor: Meh I play with "allow multiple industries" enabled and look for an area with a number of decent producers 12:38:36 <edeca> Mirrakor: Or pull up the "industry" list (little factory item on toolbar) and look for what is producing the most raw material 12:39:04 <Mirrakor> allow multiple industries - is when you can have different industries in a city? 12:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, more of the same 12:41:02 <Mirrakor> hm.. it says here there's coal, animals and corn produced 12:41:43 <Mirrakor> do they turn into goods somehow? (sorry for bothering you with endless questions - I didn't found a wiki entry on those specific theme) 12:42:09 <edeca> Animals and corn turn into food 12:42:21 <edeca> Coal doesn't turn into anything except power, but nothing happens with that 12:42:33 <Mirrakor> but who accepts corn? 12:42:38 <edeca> Food processing factory 12:43:11 <edeca> And my brewery, mm, beer 12:43:15 <Mirrakor> hm I don't see such a factory around anywere 12:43:56 <Mirrakor> hm.. so I guess I should go with wood 12:44:13 <Mirrakor> bring it to a saw mil and then directly in the city 12:53:13 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 12:53:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:53:53 <Osai> hi all 12:55:32 <edeca> Hi Osai 12:55:43 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:58:34 <edeca> Can you compile trunk with vc2008 express edition? 12:58:44 <edeca> Or am I going to have to pull out my gentoo laptop? :P 12:59:51 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:02:38 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@129.187.61.232] has joined #openttd 13:03:20 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm188.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes 13:04:58 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has joined #openttd 13:05:55 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has quit [] 13:07:08 <Mirrakor> sorry *gg* but what was that "Food processing factory" I don't see any 13:07:38 <Ammler> Mirrakor: use arctic clima 13:07:58 <Ammler> or newindustry grf 13:08:30 <Mirrakor> okay, so in a normal clima food isn't useable at all? 13:11:09 *** pm|work [~chatzilla@devera.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de] has joined #openttd 13:11:50 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has joined #openttd 13:13:17 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@194.171.202.99] has quit [] 13:14:19 <Sacro> Mirrakor: yes it is 13:18:32 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 13:25:17 *** phin [~mcgee@c-68-41-156-159.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:31 <Mirrakor> how can I get raw materials such as wood? 13:27:19 <Mirrakor> I mean, there's a wood, but if I place a truck station next to the wood it doesn't accept wood 13:28:25 <Ammler> wood will be accepted by Lumber Mill 13:29:02 <Ammler> the station at Forest will load wood 13:29:53 <Ammler> but first you need to have a truck/train there, which can carry wood 13:32:12 *** llugo [lugo@p4FD5C095.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:13 *** lugo [lugo@p4FD5F028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:40 *** Diadem [math@115pc224.sshunet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:45:19 <Diadem> wow 13:45:34 <Diadem> I just discovered that realistic acceleration removes deceleration by curves 13:45:43 <Diadem> that's nice 13:47:58 <hylje> by some curves 13:48:27 <Diadem> I always thought it slowed down trains 13:48:30 <Diadem> but it speeds them up :) 13:48:37 <hylje> if you have long enough straigth track before and after the curve 13:48:44 <hylje> that depends on train length 13:48:59 <Ammler> Diadem: it makes trains growing not speed up 13:49:09 <Ammler> but thats the perspecitve 13:49:29 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 13:51:04 <Diadem> Gonna have to do some testing with it I guess :) 13:51:43 *** Arie- [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:10 <keyweed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric_projection 13:52:19 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12512 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix r12511: it was pointed out to me to handle widgets with enums... I only wish there was a guideline for their names ;) 13:54:06 <Diadem> So how exactly does it change things? 13:54:16 <Diadem> Realistic acceleration goes uphill a lot faster. It takes corners without slowing at all 13:54:19 <Diadem> What are the drawbacks? 13:54:54 *** Belugas_Gone [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 13:54:56 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ 13:55:18 <Gekz> HOW IRONIC 13:55:31 <edeca> Anybody know if there is an easy way to grab all the dependencies (like png.h) to build openttd on windows? 13:55:38 <edeca> Oh I wish my dekstop was gentoo :| 13:55:55 <glx> Diadem: with RA, going uphill slows the train down 13:56:01 <keyweed> Diadem: i don't know all the details, but the mass of the train is taken into account on uphill stretches 13:56:49 <glx> so it's or slow in curves, or slow on slopes 13:56:52 <Diadem> Actually going uphill slows the train down less, a lot less, with RA 13:57:15 <Phantasm> It slows realistically. 13:57:25 <glx> depends on engin power 13:58:18 <Diadem> I'm using engines with very little power here, steam 13:58:33 *** Belugas_Gone [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [] 13:58:42 <Diadem> They seem to accelerate slightly slower on straight stretches 13:58:54 <Phantasm> Both low power and low speed. 13:59:01 <Phantasm> I think the physics are somewhat explained in the wiki. 13:59:29 <Diadem> It has very little on it 13:59:41 <Phantasm> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_mechanics#Vehicle_speeds 14:01:05 <Diadem> ah 14:01:13 <Diadem> I was looking at hte page about realistic acceleration 14:03:43 <Diadem> What is the default setting for "Weight multiplier for freight to simulate heavy trains"? 14:11:06 <Phantasm> 1 I think. 14:12:25 <Trond> I agree :) 14:12:26 <Diadem> what exactly does it do? 14:12:42 <Trond> funny parking: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=513784 14:12:59 <Diadem> it only affects cargo? So loaded trains? 14:13:13 <Diadem> Say you put it on two, then 30 tonnes of coal would 'weigh' 60 tonnes? 14:13:36 <edeca> Urgh, need directx sdk, urgh ;) 14:14:09 <Trond> I have no idea Diadem... wiki says nothing about that option... 14:14:40 <Diadem> Hence me asking here :) 14:14:51 <Diadem> If we could figure it out we could even update the wiki :) 14:15:30 <Trond> yeh, so I guess you try it and see what happens =) 14:15:58 <Diadem> hard to test :) 14:16:01 <Diadem> but let's try 14:16:15 <Trond> I'll get a coffee while you're testing, hehe :P 14:20:13 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@adsl-58.36.Static.ssp.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:22:03 <Belugas> coffee?? 14:22:05 <Belugas> mmmm :D 14:23:56 <Celestar> (= 14:24:41 <Diadem> RA accelerates a lot faster at slower speeds 14:24:45 <Diadem> but less fast near top speed 14:25:48 <Celestar> Diadem: which is how it works IRL 14:26:09 <Diadem> And the weight multiplier does nothing at all 14:28:14 <Diadem> both with and without RA trains accelerate at exactly the same speed wether the weight multiplier is 1 or 10 14:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> it only applies for _full_ trains, and not for passengers/mail 14:29:37 <Diadem> I tried it with full trains 14:30:12 <Diadem> To be exact I tried it with a SH'8P' with 9 fully loaded coal trucks behind it 14:30:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> have you tried uphill? 14:30:31 <Diadem> ah no 14:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> preferably, going uphill from 0 speed 14:31:56 <Trond> so the weight multipl. only works uphill? 14:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but the effects are most visible there 14:33:26 <Gekz> Gute nacht 14:33:30 <Trond> okey 14:33:44 <Diadem> Eddi|zuHause2: But it only works on full trains, right? 14:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: empty trains should have no significant weight anyway 14:34:36 <Diadem> I know 14:34:43 <Diadem> But that makes it harder to test, I can't build full trains in the depot ) 14:38:11 *** SmatZ [~Miranda@edunat.felk.cvut.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:50 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Peer Gynt] 14:48:22 <edeca> Anybody here compile on windows? I've got the directx sdk (400MB!) but it doesn't have some of the headers in, where should they come from? 14:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> you need an older release 14:48:51 <edeca> Aah! 14:48:51 <Forked> the wiki knows 14:48:56 * edeca checks wiki 14:48:57 <edeca> Sorry 14:49:05 <Forked> np :) I remember it was a pain 14:49:05 * keyweed praises the wiki 14:51:06 <ln> http://www.bahnpics.com/nil/showpic.php?show=./Urlaub%2007/Finnland/07.07.17%20Vartius/DSC_7708k%20copy.jpg 14:51:19 <Trond> BOTTD makes it really easy to compile on windows :) 14:51:42 <Trond> nice pic. in! 14:51:44 <edeca> Trond: Not if you want more than 1 patch :) 14:52:18 <hylje> three Sr2 "marsu"s?! 14:52:29 <Trond> well... tortoise+bottd makes it really easy to compile on windows then 14:52:49 <edeca> Trond: I already have it checked out thanks to svn in cygwin.. can I just patch && compile with bottd? 14:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> edeca: the limitation to 1 patch is on purpose 14:53:22 <Trond> I apply several patches on tortoise, then make a patch from that, and use that in BOTTD 14:53:36 <hylje> manual merging ain't very pretty 14:53:43 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause2: It does make sense 14:53:57 <Trond> I use six patches on my own builds with BOTTD that way 14:54:18 <Mirrakor> where can I disable breakdowns? (is it in the Patch -> Vehicle tab?) 14:54:33 <edeca> Trond: That's a good idea, I'll do it like that. 14:54:46 <hylje> Mirrakor: i recall yes 14:54:53 <hylje> Mirrakor: oh, wait, it's in difficulty 14:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> Mirrakor: no, difficulty settings 14:56:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> but in the patches there is "disable servicing if breakdowns are off" 14:56:30 <Trond> good luck edeca :) 14:58:00 <edeca> Trond: Meh, it wouldn't be an issue if I didn't have a windows desktop :) 14:58:05 <edeca> Trond: svn + patch + gcc = win 14:59:05 <Trond> windows is nice and easy for slackers :P 14:59:43 <Trond> its just 'press play on tape' and repeat after crash 14:59:52 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, it's much more difficult to type "make" and it just does it right 15:08:27 <hylje> scary text 15:09:56 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause2: Heh 15:10:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> edeca: it's called 'irony' 15:10:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12513 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_house.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: rename OriginalTileRandomiser something more descriptive 15:11:24 <edeca> Eddi|zuHause2: Where do i type the codez 'make'? in the black box with the bash sign? (</sarcasm>) 15:12:16 <ln> edeca: and where was the opening tag? 15:16:30 <edeca> ln: I don't claim to be compliant ;) 15:18:09 <hylje> ln: fuzzy logic 15:18:09 <Mirrakor> I've got a question (yet again.. :D ) 15:18:56 <Mirrakor> I build a truck station near a oil plant - but my trucks can't pickup any oil... 15:19:17 <edeca> Mirrakor: Do you mean an oil well? 15:19:17 <mrfrenzy> is it a truck station and not a bus station 15:19:19 <toet> buy oil trucks 15:19:27 <Mirrakor> I've got oil trucks :D 15:19:27 <edeca> Mirrakor: Oil refineries accept, they don't produce 15:19:37 <edeca> Mirrakor: And is the depot near enough to the oil well 15:19:47 <Mirrakor> the depot or the station? 15:20:50 <Mirrakor> it's an oil field (or in fact it's a plasticwell) 15:21:46 <hylje> toyland, you sick person 15:22:41 <edeca> Hahaha 15:22:49 <edeca> Why is that even still part of the game? :) 15:24:11 <Trond> somone likes it? 15:24:31 <Trond> the eleven year old here liked it... 15:25:25 <edeca> It makes me ill just looking at it 15:26:05 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:26:13 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 15:26:22 <Trond> I started a game there once... 15:26:41 <Trond> it didnt even last a week (gametime) =) 15:26:46 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:28:31 <Belugas> is there anyone who is bored and who would like to help fixing a bug? Or at least provide data for fixing it? 15:28:44 <Belugas> the more data we will gather, the better it is. 15:28:49 <Belugas> it is an easy task, in fact 15:28:53 <Belugas> but a bit doring 15:29:11 <Belugas> all you have to do, is to run the game, for a 100 years, 15:29:12 <yorick> what bug? 15:29:23 <yorick> real? 15:29:24 <Belugas> with NO interventions, NO AI, nothing 15:29:29 <Belugas> just let it go 15:29:39 <yorick> 100 game years? 15:29:50 <yorick> or 100 real years? 15:29:51 <Belugas> and every 10 years, tell me the number of all industries 15:30:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12514 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_object.cpp ai_object.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: 'const <integral> Function()' make absolutely no sense. 15:30:17 *** Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2C886.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:25 <Belugas> so, total number, plus number of individual industry type 15:30:46 * Rubidium has a better idea 15:32:19 <Belugas> ho? 15:34:31 <Belugas> until Rubidium comes up with his idea, i forgot to specify it has to be done on 2048*2048 and 256*256 15:34:57 <Belugas> on temperate 15:34:59 <Belugas> no grfs 15:35:07 <Belugas> Very low amount of towns 15:35:12 <Belugas> very flat 15:35:17 <Belugas> allow multiple factories on same town. 15:35:22 <Belugas> close to each other is allowed. 15:35:29 <Belugas> smooth economy is on 15:35:51 <Rubidium> well, lets try that :) 15:35:53 <Phantasm> And high starting industry count. 15:36:01 <Belugas> true 15:36:03 <Belugas> forgot that... 15:36:48 <Belugas> we would like to be able to verify the difference of the decrease of industries depending of the map sizes 15:37:22 <Belugas> the assumption is the the bigger the map, the fastest the number of indutries do decline 15:37:45 <Belugas> so, it can be viewed as a bug, or as an unbalancing. depends 15:37:52 <Belugas> but it may need to be fixed 15:38:19 <Belugas> problem, it requires a lot of data to be able to follow the decline 15:38:24 <Belugas> therefore, asking users 15:38:28 <Belugas> thanks 15:38:31 <Belugas> and don't be shy 15:38:37 <Rubidium> therefor making a patch that dumps that to the console 15:38:45 <Belugas> haa... 15:38:47 <Belugas> good idea :D 15:39:09 *** Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has joined #openttd 15:39:44 <Rubidium> does print it yearly though 15:40:10 <Belugas> even better if it yearly 15:40:20 <frosch123> Standard/smooth economy is also important, I guess 15:40:37 <Belugas> the 10 years idea was to have a general idea without bugging too much 15:40:50 <Belugas> i don't thuink standard/smooth is important 15:41:03 <Phantasm> It might be, so better have it at same setting for everyone. 15:41:06 <Belugas> unless it makes an impact on the speed of death 15:41:33 <Belugas> or maybe have a few batches on smooth, and a few batches on standard? 15:41:41 <Phantasm> Perhaps. 15:41:43 <Belugas> but distinctively markes 15:41:44 <frosch123> IIRC smooth economy calls production change for every industry every month (including the same chance for every industry to close). While non-smooth economy picks only one industry per month 15:41:51 <Belugas> -s+d 15:42:02 <Belugas> nope 15:42:10 <Belugas> both are called monthly 15:42:18 <Belugas> they just differ on their processes 15:42:25 * Maedhros suggests a standard config file as well 15:42:32 <Phantasm> Industry dies when the production goes too low, so it should matter. If not on average dying time, at least on variance. 15:42:54 <Belugas> good idea too, Maedhros 15:43:01 <Ammler> with current trunk? 15:43:03 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7882A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 15:43:18 <Belugas> mmh... i need a bench so i can lay my feet :( 15:43:25 <hylje> freet 15:43:33 <Belugas> comuter is too cubic :( 15:43:38 <Belugas> computer 15:43:39 <frosch123> http://paste.openttd.org/1659 <- "ChangeIndustryProduction(i, true);" is called for every industry, "ChangeIndustryProduction(i, false);" only for one 15:44:04 <hylje> magic arguments 15:44:19 <Belugas> naaa... that is randomproductionchange VS monthly... 15:46:46 <frosch123> well yes, smooth economy uses monthly, while standard uses randomchange 15:49:35 *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.105.68] has joined #openttd 15:50:07 <nicfer> hmmm openttd is already a game about making cities grow 15:50:42 <nicfer> maybe if temperate cities don't grow by theyselves it would be good 15:50:49 <nicfer> better* 16:04:01 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:04:42 *** egladil [~egladil@goth-gbg-109-143-233-83.3.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #openttd 16:05:46 <ln> goth-gbg 16:07:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12515 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_threads.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: when an AI dies on its own, don't kill the AI-script, just mark it as dead and don't do anything until the company dies with it 16:08:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12516 /trunk/src/core/ (random_func.cpp random_func.hpp): -Revert r2583: Removed mersenne PRNG cause it is not used and won't be used in the future 16:09:17 *** Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2C886.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:09:43 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F57CEA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:11:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12517 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_error.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: type in @file of ai_error.cpp 16:11:42 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@129.187.61.232] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 16:12:47 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:00 <Mirrakor> edeca: it's not my fault - it's the only theme my gf is willing to play :D 16:13:23 <edeca> Mirrakor: Buy her a laptop, that solved my problems 16:14:02 <Mirrakor> :D 16:14:23 <edeca> Or even better, buy yourself a decent laptop and let her use the old pc 16:14:37 <Mirrakor> this is dark *gg* no seriously - I think the theme shouldn't actually matter?! 16:19:16 <Mirrakor> Is it possible that another player already "reserved" it? 16:22:53 <Digitalfox> I'm so fuc* .... I have 2 weeks to learn the basics of C and C++ for my admission exam to university.. :| 16:23:53 <Digitalfox> Shit where should I start? Any book recomended or tutorial? 16:24:02 <yorick> cplusplus.com? 16:24:10 <Mirrakor> there are many books around - the basics are fairly easy :) 16:24:36 <Digitalfox> Mirrakor I really hope it is or i'm fuc* 16:24:52 <Digitalfox> yorick will take a look, thanks 16:25:09 <Mirrakor> Do you have to write real code or just structograms? 16:25:12 <ln> learning C _and C++ in 2 weeks... that's well yeah. 16:25:36 <Mirrakor> btw. isn't there a book series - "learning xyz in zwy days?" 16:26:06 <Digitalfox> Mirrakor I'm only knowing what to study tomorrow when they publish the exam requirements 16:26:21 <ln> Mirrakor: yes, but it's 21 days, and 21 > 14. 16:26:55 <Digitalfox> ln fuc* it.. I'll study day and night, I have no other option :( 16:27:12 <ln> besides, since we are on an English channel, let us not talk about "2 weeks" but instead "fortnight". 16:27:58 <Digitalfox> I need also to study maths.. But that I'll have some classes with math's teachers who I know.. 16:28:44 <Mirrakor> ln: if he's nothing else to do.. *gg* 16:28:57 <hylje> what about 336 hours 16:28:58 <Digitalfox> But I'm pretty much screwed this 2 weeks... 16:29:15 <ln> *fortnight 16:29:30 <Digitalfox> I did have work to do.. But this is my first priority :) 16:32:58 <Mirrakor> hm.. I've 0.6.0-RC1 when I want to play multiplayer, does the other play have to has the same version? 16:33:33 <Maedhros> yes 16:33:50 <Mirrakor> even the RC1 has to macht? 16:33:54 <Digitalfox> Well I choose the road of work on my early life and have taken many certifications thinking university wouldn't be needed, but my country Portugal is in a bad situation and so university opens many new doors.. :) 16:33:57 <Mirrakor> s/macht/match 16:34:47 <Maedhros> Mirrakor: yes - the version must be exactly the same, unless you know exactly what you're doing 16:38:35 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i59F57CEA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:39:33 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-106-226.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:12 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-106-226.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:41:08 *** Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:13 *** anhedral is now known as dih 16:44:05 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm188.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 16:45:55 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-177-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]] 16:46:28 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-177-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:47:13 <dih> indian call centeres have a requirement for their futur staff 16:47:45 <dih> they need to construct a sentance, including 3 certain words 16:47:53 <dih> green, pink, and yellow 16:48:30 <dih> "the phone goes green green, i pink it up and say: yellow?" 16:48:57 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499FFAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:17 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:56:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-225-220.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:58:32 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 16:59:25 <Maedhros> well, that was horrific 16:59:25 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [] 17:00:35 <Diadem> Income: About 60 million 17:00:41 <Mirrakor> hm.. what is more efficient: Same distance: Truck or Train 17:00:42 <Diadem> Construction costs this year: 200 million 17:00:47 <Diadem> whoops :) 17:03:21 <Patrick`> Diadem: oopsie 17:03:26 <Patrick`> Mirrakor: train by far 17:03:35 <Patrick`> over long distances 17:03:42 <Diadem> Well it was expected 17:03:51 <Diadem> Building a 10-track steel line over the entire lenght of a 1024 map 17:04:10 <Diadem> The problem however is that I'm out of money now and the track isn't quite finished yet :) 17:04:31 <hylje> where do you need a 10-track line 17:04:34 <Diadem> But I should make enough to finish the remainder while my trains are going 17:04:51 <Diadem> I don't. But gotta think of the future :) 17:05:40 *** frosch123 [~mtce@pascal.math.tu-clausthal.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:05 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:06:28 <Diadem> 300 trains now, about 150 of those bringing iron ore to the same steel mill 17:06:45 <Diadem> And 100 of those on the line I just build transporting steel :) 17:08:38 <Mirrakor> How's that with Multiplayer and the patches... 17:09:32 <Mirrakor> Can everyone set the settings(I'd doubt that), can the host set the settings(during game) or do they have to be set before the game starts 17:09:52 *** jez9999 [virtua@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:12:33 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:35 <Diadem> I wonder how much it'll pay 17:13:38 <Diadem> probably not that much 17:13:56 <Diadem> since I get a huge time penalty 17:17:51 <Diadem> Not bad, 330K 17:18:45 <Sacro> right, it is now o(N) 17:18:49 <Sacro> though i have no idea how it works 17:19:23 <Diadem> 100 trains, each takes about 14 months for the entire trip, and they get 330K per trip. That's, hmm, about 30 million a year 17:19:26 <Diadem> Not bad for a single line :) 17:20:36 *** Purno_ [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 17:21:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12518 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: minor change of order avoids silly one-in-a-milion errors :) 17:23:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:06 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host74-95-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:26:14 <Wolf01> hello 17:26:36 <dih> hello 17:26:45 *** Morloth [~bram@53542231.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:27:37 <jez9999> looks like OOXML will pass as an ISO standard 17:27:38 <jez9999> :-S 17:27:40 <jez9999> pathetic 17:27:56 <jez9999> time for a new standards body methinks 17:28:08 <Sacro> we need a standard standards board 17:28:12 <jez9999> more stringent rules; if bribery is detected, all involved parties are permenantly banned from the organization 17:28:32 <Mirrakor> Diadem: screen? :D 17:28:47 <Mirrakor> jez9999: could it be more obvious? 17:28:53 <jez9999> what? 17:29:00 <Wolf01> Any way to clean a svn folder? My 2 OTTD checkouts take 350MB each one o_o''' 17:29:24 *** Zealotus [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:30:17 <Sacro> svn clean? 17:30:26 <Sacro> cleanup? 17:30:29 <Sacro> rm? 17:30:30 <Prof_Frink> rm -rf? 17:30:34 <Sacro> rm -rf /? 17:30:41 <Prof_Frink> sudo rm -rf /? 17:30:53 <Wolf01> *without recreating the checkout 17:30:59 <Diadem> Mirrakor: One second, turns out 100 trains isn't enough, need 50 more :) 17:31:03 <Wolf01> jez9999, I'll try to suggest a new standard, compatible with meter but also with beer, pizza and cheese 17:31:08 *** yo [~yo@5356D649.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:31:28 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@021-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 17:32:00 <Prof_Frink> Wolf01: gas, electric or water? 17:32:05 <yo> everybody gratz with the 0.60 version 17:32:20 <Wolf01> plasma 17:32:48 <Wolf01> so I can recharge my plasmagun 17:33:04 <jez9999> so i was shopping just now, and i was coming down on the escalator 17:33:25 <jez9999> some hideous woman behind me was saying to her child, "you should've slapped his face off! i told you you should've slapped his face off!" 17:33:31 <jez9999> shame these people breed 17:33:55 <jez9999> everyone was looking at her though heh 17:34:10 <Prof_Frink> jez9999: When I rule the world, they'll be rounded up and used as fuel. 17:34:15 <jez9999> :-) 17:34:38 <Diadem> Mirrakor: Here you are: http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bouwhuis/OTTD/Diadem%20Transport,%2023rd%20Aug%201961.png 17:36:10 <Patrick`> Diadem: ooo 17:36:13 <Phantasm> Diadem: Uhm.. A pair of tracks can transport about 20 000 cargo a month (with normal breakdowns). 17:36:16 <Patrick`> don't belive in networks? 17:36:24 <jez9999> Diadem: im guessing you dont like towns 17:36:27 <Patrick`> Phantasm: and without networks? 17:36:32 <jez9999> Diadem: plonninghall is destroyed 17:36:37 <Phantasm> Patrick`: Networks? 17:36:47 <Diadem> jez9999: Yeah took me ages, was over 1200 people :) 17:36:54 <jez9999> heh 17:36:56 <Diadem> jez9999: I often remove towns if they are in the way ;) 17:37:18 <Diadem> Phantasm: With maglevs? 17:37:23 <Diadem> Phantasm: Not with steam trains 17:37:34 <Phantasm> 12-16 station tracks with suitable depot system and a pair of tracks can do 20 000 cargo a month with maglevs yea. 17:37:35 <Prof_Frink> You know the easy way to kill a town? 17:37:49 <Diadem> Prof_Frink: trees 17:37:52 <Phantasm> Diadem: Btw, at the era of steam trains, you won't have 20 000 cargo to transport. 17:38:07 <jez9999> has anyone written any half-decent Squirrel AIs for NoAI yet? 17:38:12 <jez9999> im sure there must be some around, cant find any 17:38:13 <Diadem> Patrick`: What do you mean? I don't believe in networks? 17:38:28 <Prof_Frink> Diadem: No, demolishing four buildings/road pieces and letting it decay 17:38:30 <Patrick`> Diadem: on closer inspection, you have some 17:38:40 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 17:38:47 <jez9999> i want an AI that will give me a good challenge and try to bankrupt me by making my services unprofitable 17:39:05 <Phantasm> The normal AI can't even make profit in hardest possible settings. ;P 17:39:08 <yorick> jez9999: to #openttd.noai? 17:39:18 <Diadem> Phantasm: My steel mill does about 5000 a month. Trust me, I need so many trains to transport that all to the other side 17:39:29 <yorick> the WrightAI, that comes shipped with the noai branch, is a perfect competition 17:39:34 <Diadem> I could do with less lines I guess. But not with one. Just check the train density. Would need at least 3. Might as well make it 5, nicer number :) 17:39:36 <Phantasm> Diadem: 5k a month.. I'd say about 2 pair of tracks is enough. 17:39:54 <Phantasm> Diadem: The key is to fully utilize the tracks.. It takes quite a strange and optimized station to do so. 17:39:55 <Diadem> 2 would be pushing it 17:40:19 <Patrick`> I had an amusing idea once 17:40:21 <Phantasm> Do you have the tracks fully utilized? 17:40:28 <Diadem> Patrick`: I have a huge network towards my steel mill. Away from it, nope, no need, just one single long line 17:40:32 <Patrick`> to disable collision detection and just use a single railway line to carry 500 trains 17:40:33 <Phantasm> So that you have train after train with almost no space between going there? 17:40:34 * dih pitties the fool 17:40:57 *** yo [~yo@5356D649.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 17:41:09 *** Zealotus [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:41:12 <Diadem> Phantasm: Nope. Still working on that. But for this steel line, it's really not needed. There's room enough, just a cost limitation 17:41:17 <Diadem> And it was only 200 million to build this line 17:41:37 <Diadem> Would have been maybe only 100 million with just 2 tracks 17:42:01 <Phantasm> Diadem: Try playing with as hard settings as possible. 17:42:08 <Phantasm> Nothing but water and mountains etc. 17:42:18 <Phantasm> And subarctic map style preferably. :) 17:42:26 <Diadem> I know this is an easy game for fun 17:42:38 <Phantasm> That way you won't get hundreds of millions of money in dozen years. 17:42:42 <Diadem> Played on mountains/seas often enough 17:42:46 <Tefad> many monies. 17:42:50 <Phantasm> For me, I lose interest when I have too much money to spend. 17:42:50 <Patrick`> yeah 17:42:55 <Patrick`> hard is hard, man! 17:43:03 <Phantasm> Harder than hard! 17:43:06 <Phantasm> Hard is too easy! 17:43:06 <Patrick`> but even so after 5-10 years I have several million 17:43:10 <Patrick`> and it starts to get silly 17:43:21 <Wolf01> mmmh seem the only way is to blow up the checkouts and remake them... clearup freed only 4MB 17:43:23 <Patrick`> I want, like, train morgages, and lines that take 20 years to break even 17:43:44 <Diadem> Hehe, yep 17:44:25 <jez9999> the proper way to prevent yourself from getting 100s of millions is to code an AI so good it competes with you 17:44:40 <Patrick`> competition is annoying and frustrating 17:44:42 <Phantasm> jez9999: Won't really help. 17:44:49 <yorick> after which you know how to compete with it 17:44:52 <Patrick`> I'd rather see some asymmetric coop games 17:44:55 <jez9999> your routes arent very profitable because its rating is very high and you dont get much production. also the industries' productions shouldnt increase over time, they massively increase you you make stupid amount of money 17:44:56 <Phantasm> There is enough space to go around. 17:45:00 <Patrick`> where a "line master" builds track to industries 17:45:05 <jez9999> Phantasm: depends on the mapsize 17:45:09 <Patrick`> and then rents capacity to the train companies 17:45:11 <Phantasm> jez9999: Standard map. 17:45:13 <jez9999> on a 512^2, i'd say the CPU could give you a good run 17:45:14 <Patrick`> 256? 17:45:21 <jez9999> after 50 years it'll be competing well 17:45:27 <jez9999> (if it's a very good ai) 17:45:28 <Diadem> The main thing is that operating costs aren't high enough 17:45:39 <Patrick`> I hate upgrading rail types so much that I start with monorail 17:45:42 <Diadem> Construction costs, no matter map type, etc, just don't matter anymore after a while 17:45:47 <Phantasm> jez9999: After 10 years you have enough money. Map insn't full yet.. You can go around well with ideal AI not making you bankrupt. 17:45:52 <Patrick`> but now it costs > max loan to build a single monorail line 17:45:52 <Diadem> The only way to avoid that is by making things much less profitable 17:46:52 <jez9999> Phantasm: mmhmm, hard to think of a solution 17:46:55 <jez9999> i guess there are several 17:47:11 <jez9999> high operating costs... having to pay big shareholder dividends if you're rich might be good 17:47:14 <jez9999> so you have to keep earning 17:47:31 <jez9999> and of course a good AI to keep you having to create good services 17:47:32 <Phantasm> jez9999: Have you played Railroad Tycoon 2? 17:47:35 <jez9999> nope 17:47:42 <jez9999> well maybe once 17:47:44 <jez9999> isnt it an old dos game? 17:47:52 <Phantasm> Something like that. 17:48:02 <jez9999> but it looked horrible compared with TT :-) 17:48:09 <jez9999> TT looks cute and fuzzy 17:48:23 <Phantasm> Looked yes, and part of the gameplay is quite off.. But it has awesome stock system! 17:48:33 <Noldo> I agree 17:48:44 <Phantasm> OTTD could use such stock system. 17:48:49 <jez9999> how does it work? 17:49:10 <Phantasm> It is quite hard to explain.. It is more or less realistic stock market made into there. 17:49:23 <jez9999> so comp players could buy you out? 17:49:27 <Phantasm> You start with personal money, you can make a company with your own money and get investor money to help with it. 17:49:28 <jez9999> not sure that would be good for gameplay 17:49:33 <Noldo> it can't be applied directly because the chairman/manager == company in openttd 17:49:36 <Phantasm> Yes, comp could buy you out. 17:49:42 <Phantasm> But in a realistic sense. 17:49:55 <Phantasm> You can also prevent the comp from buying you out if you are good enough. 17:49:56 <jez9999> i mean in the real world buyouts happen, but that doesnt mean the company bought out 'loses', they just become rich 17:50:06 <jez9999> in openTTD a buyout would put you out of the game as if you had 'lost' 17:50:11 <jez9999> not desirable 17:50:16 <Phantasm> jez9999: You could start new company. 17:50:22 <jez9999> hmm 17:50:27 <jez9999> but at a massive disadvantage 17:50:33 <jez9999> you lose huge amount of infrastructure 17:50:41 <Phantasm> You would get loads and loads of personal money if you got bought. And you could start fully self owned company that can't be bought unless you agree to. 17:50:55 <jez9999> well you could do that at the start 17:50:55 <Phantasm> But you get money worth the infrastructure (depending on how much of the company you own). 17:51:08 <Phantasm> You don't have enough money at start to do so. 17:51:09 <jez9999> if you cant be bought out why even offer the option 17:51:30 <Phantasm> Anyway, if you had played RT2 you would know the system is good and buying someone else out isn't just like that. So it would work just fine. 17:52:00 <Diadem> Well for a start they should fix company values then 17:52:02 <Phantasm> There are various things that can be done with the stock market. 17:52:02 <jez9999> im looking to get a system that keeps you playing, and keeps you working hard to create good services 17:52:06 <jez9999> what are you looking for? :-) 17:52:11 <Diadem> Mine is worth only slight more than my yearly income 17:52:16 <Diadem> Should be 20x as much, at least 17:52:25 <Phantasm> Diadem: The company value in OTTD is a joke. 17:52:38 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.39 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 17:52:39 <Noldo> it's only the book value 17:53:01 <Phantasm> RT2 had a real life company value simulation.. The company value depends on the economy.. If economy is booming the value is more and if there is depression the value goes less etc. 17:53:09 <Phantasm> And lots of factors matter on it. 17:53:17 <Diadem> hehe 17:53:18 <Diadem> gotta love this 17:53:25 <jez9999> i think that's more than is needed (initially) to have a more competitive game though 17:53:30 <Diadem> Last year I made 43 million *net* profit 17:53:40 <Diadem> My company value: 44 million 17:53:41 <Diadem> wow :) 17:53:57 <Phantasm> Diadem: Old trains don't have much value, so yea, OTTD company value is a joke. 17:54:02 <jez9999> you must be spending a lot of money :-) 17:54:28 <Diadem> Yeah see the screenie :) 17:54:37 <Diadem> I spent about 200 million this year. So atm I have only 5 million cash 17:54:49 <jez9999> i think my problem with OpenTTD main branch is i have different priotiries to the main devs 17:55:00 <jez9999> the main devs seem to want to make the game good for the #openttdcoop people 17:55:04 <jez9999> tons of trains, graphics, and stuff 17:55:13 <jez9999> good train networks, signals etc 17:55:26 <jez9999> all good but if you want a fun 1 player game that isnt enough, you need to concentrate on competition and AI 17:55:27 <Diadem> I don't understand the focus on graphics... Noone plays a 10 year old game for the pretty graphics 17:55:33 <jez9999> main devs dont give a damn about that :-( 17:55:46 <jez9999> we could do with a few major branches 17:55:47 * Belugas slaps 17:55:52 <Belugas> jez9999 17:55:55 <jez9999> what, do you dispute that statement? 17:55:58 * Belugas slapas jez9999 17:56:05 <Belugas> ho shoooo... 17:56:13 <Belugas> you do not know waht you are talking about 17:56:14 <Belugas> that' 17:56:16 <Belugas> s 17:56:17 <jez9999> there is still a crappy AI and it's far too easy to make money :-) 17:56:19 <Belugas> all i had to say 17:56:31 <blathijs> jez9999: It's more of an issue of what people are able to do, or like to do 17:56:31 <Rubidium> jez9999: there are already too many branches to manage 17:56:44 <jez9999> Rubidium: what, 2? 17:56:57 <Diadem> Well jez9999 resources are limited 17:57:09 <blathijs> jez9999: Writing a good AI is hard, and there aren't too many devs that actually like working on that part 17:57:11 <jez9999> maybe NoAI could be the branch focussed on competition etc 17:57:26 <Diadem> I mean you can say the development is focussed on that... But realistically. We still don't have PBS in the main branch. Or a good autoreplace/upgrade functions 17:57:28 <Rubidium> jez9999: actually 7 17:57:42 <Diadem> That's two things that are really needed imho 17:57:45 <jez9999> Diadem: autoreplace is ok? 17:57:47 <blathijs> jez9999: Same goes for making the game more competitive, that's a very nontrivial job... 17:57:57 <jez9999> blathijs: sure, but if accomplished it would be very cool :-) 17:57:59 <jez9999> so worth trying 17:58:12 <Diadem> It's just a lot of work making a game 17:58:16 <Diadem> And noone gets payed for it 17:58:50 <jez9999> i dont dispute that, i just think there's a limit to how fun it can get building big complex networks 17:58:57 <jez9999> at some point i want a challenge from another company 17:59:04 <Rubidium> play in MP 17:59:11 <jez9999> still you wont go bankrupt 17:59:18 <Rubidium> or write an AI 17:59:24 <jez9999> ive dablled with the AI :-) 17:59:50 <Diadem> Well...Start with a simply patch I guess: Operating costs *= 50 17:59:53 <jez9999> but i also think the business rules need changing 17:59:56 <Rubidium> in MP you can go bankrupt 17:59:57 <Diadem> That should make the game a bit more challeging 18:00:04 <Diadem> *challenging 18:00:07 <Rubidium> Diadem: for that there's a newgrf 18:00:18 <jez9999> as we were talking about earlier, Rubidium, operating costs need to be higher, rich companies have to pay dividents, etc 18:00:18 <Rubidium> that changes the base costs of almost everythinh 18:00:27 <jez9999> otherwise if you get a good start going bankrupt takes about 100 years 18:00:37 <jez9999> we need a way to have to constantly make money or be in trouble 18:00:38 <Diadem> It's not construction costs, it's the running costs taht should go up 18:00:56 <jez9999> a good AI is part of that but not the whole solution 18:00:57 <Rubidium> Diadem: also influencable by a newgrf 18:01:10 <Diadem> Basicly once you have a line it effectively amkes 100% profit. That's just insane 18:01:46 <Patrick`> yeah. 18:01:49 <blathijs> 19:57:57 < jez9999> blathijs: sure, but if accomplished it would be very cool :-) <-- That's something entirely different then yelling stuff like "main devs dont give a damn about that :-(" 18:01:56 <blathijs> s/then/than/ 18:01:56 <Rubidium> Diadem: happens in the real world too 18:01:56 <jez9999> another thing i'd change is setting the default subsidy multiplier to about 10, anything less is rarely worth doing 18:02:10 <Phantasm> jez9999: Hell no. 18:02:18 <Patrick`> it should not be profitable to lay a long line to a 50ton/month primary industry and have one train wait 6 months for a load. 18:02:19 <Phantasm> Subsidy multiplier at 10 would break the hell lose. 18:02:30 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:30 <jez9999> blathijs: well im afraid ive suggested quite a few things that would make things more competitive, main devs havent exactly worked with me on them :-) 18:02:33 <jez9999> so i do come to that conclusion 18:02:35 <Rubidium> Diadem: in the real world most companies are forced to run less profitable lines 18:02:44 <Diadem> tbh I wouldn't even use it at 20 multiplier... those lines are simply to short to bother with 18:02:47 <Patrick`> we're reluctant to modify the gameplay 18:02:51 <Patrick`> even if bigmaps did that 18:02:59 <jez9999> Phantasm: really? subsidies only last for a year 18:03:03 <jez9999> 10x seems reasonable 18:03:08 <jez9999> you have to rush-build a track 18:03:10 <Phantasm> Diadem: Select as hard as possible settings and you'll know why. 18:03:13 <blathijs> jez9999: I'd invite you to write down a proposal with changes, find a programmer to implement them, and then we can see if things improve 18:03:14 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.172] has joined #openttd 18:03:22 <Diadem> Phantasm: I've played on hard often enough 18:03:24 <jez9999> blathijs: i write patches. 18:03:28 <jez9999> i am a programmer. 18:03:30 <Phantasm> Diadem: Hard is NOT really hard. 18:03:40 <jez9999> i also propose stuff on the forum 18:03:40 <blathijs> jez9999: The problem with these kinds of changes is that they're probably only useful when applied at the same time 18:03:42 <Phantasm> Diadem: I mean the hardest possible custom settings you can pick from everywhere. 18:03:43 <Diadem> bah I played the OLD TTD on hard often enough... OTTD is much easier than TTD 18:03:56 <blathijs> jez9999: That makes part 2 of my suggestion an easy job (finding a programmer ;-p) 18:04:06 <Phantasm> Diadem: Such settings that AIs at highest intelligency etc won't ever make profit. 18:04:20 <jez9999> blathijs: it's less motivating when you know it wont get into the main trunk though. nobody else will work with me on it 18:04:21 <Diadem> Phantasm: I never play with AIs anyway 18:04:26 <jez9999> much more difficult that way 18:04:41 <Phantasm> Diadem: Neither do I really.. Anyway, if you try the hardest possible settings, you'll see what the subsidies do. 18:04:54 <jez9999> isnt the default 1.5x on hardest? :-) 18:04:58 <jez9999> it's pointless 18:05:01 <blathijs> jez9999: I can't deny that it's not so trivial to find a motivated dev willing to help you out improving and applying patches, unfortunately... 18:05:09 <Diadem> Phantasm: On hard it's 1.5 which is pointless for only 1 year and a very short route 18:05:28 <Phantasm> Diadem: Actually even 1.5 matters. 18:05:30 <jez9999> blathijs: i would be such a dev but will they give me SVN commit access? :-) 18:06:26 <Diadem> Phantasm: Or are you talking about not just difficulty settings but also changing patches to make it harder? 18:06:28 <jez9999> it's all very well me posting a patch for some better business rules on the forum but if it doesnt get into any main codebase, it's depressing 18:06:34 <jez9999> and very few people get to experience it 18:07:02 <Rubidium> that's because very few people write good patches 18:07:05 <Phantasm> Diadem: Difficulity, map settings and reasonable patch settings. 18:07:11 <Belugas> those programmers who made good enough a job at writing patches are usually devs right now 18:07:31 <Rubidium> and *if* a patch is so worse that I'd spend more time on it to get it to trunk than to write the feature myself, I'm not even considering it 18:07:45 <jez9999> Rubidium: i wrote a good patch 18:07:48 <Belugas> and jez9999, the least that can be said about your patches is that they do not reach the required level 18:07:50 <jez9999> you said "no" and gave me no justification. 18:07:51 <Diadem> Phantasm: One thing about OTTD is that patches make it easier compared to TTD. Like, for example, being able to build an entire stretch of diagonal railroad at once 18:07:55 <jez9999> thanks a lot. 18:08:11 <Diadem> Phantasm: And autoreplace. And longer trains, better pathfinding, presignals, etc, etc. 18:08:20 <jez9999> im talking about my map colours patch, it's as simple as it gets and only improves the game 18:08:21 <Diadem> All good changes, but they do make the game eve neasier 18:08:21 <Rubidium> jez9999: no, you asked for my personal opinion 18:08:36 <jez9999> Belugas: i dont deny that my other one is not good enough yet 18:08:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:08:39 <Prof_Frink> Diadem: OTOH, newgrfs like DBSet, USSet and UKRS have rebalanced costs to make it harder 18:08:39 <Phantasm> Diadem: Autoreplace, presignals, better pathfinding etc don't matter at start. 18:08:54 <Belugas> other "ones" you mean... 18:09:08 <jez9999> *shrug* 18:09:22 <Belugas> jez9999, i saw the map color one. I did not liked it. I prefer the way the colors are right now 18:09:25 <Belugas> honestly 18:09:29 <jez9999> hmm 18:09:38 <jez9999> i dont get that :-) they're not good right now. 18:09:45 <jez9999> how can you like blue player being the same as water?? 18:09:52 <Belugas> YOU think they are not good 18:09:56 <jez9999> yeah i do :-) 18:09:59 <Belugas> YOU changed them to YOUR liking 18:10:03 <Belugas> that's ok 18:10:14 <jez9999> YOU think they are, i wonder how many people do 18:10:16 <Belugas> but there is no reason why it should go in trnk 18:10:25 <jez9999> maybe some vote process 18:10:26 <jez9999> :-) 18:10:26 <Prof_Frink> I agree with jez9999. The current way is bad. 18:10:32 <yorick> true 18:10:42 <Rubidium> jez9999: so when I like OpenTTD to be all purple, I should just commit it? 18:10:42 <dih> lol 18:10:52 <Phantasm> Very low towns, industries, min loan, max interest, high running costs, normal breakdownds, 1.5 subsidy, high cost of construction, fluctuating economy, hostile city council's attitude. Sub-arctic, mountainous terrain, high sea level, very rough smoothness, snow line heigth 2. 18:10:59 <Phantasm> Something like that. 18:11:05 <jez9999> Rubidium: i dunno how it works, it seems to be a bit random. bjarni tends to 'just commit' his stuff as do other devs 18:11:06 <dih> hello Belugas 18:11:06 <jez9999> :-) 18:11:12 <jez9999> you tell me 18:11:21 <dih> lol 18:11:22 <Belugas> jez9999: how old is ottd? And just NOW, it's unbearable? come on... 18:11:26 <Belugas> hello Dih 18:11:29 <jez9999> i didnt say unbearable 18:11:32 <yorick> hello Dih 18:11:33 <jez9999> im saying this makes it better 18:11:42 <Rubidium> jez9999: might look like that, but that isn't the case 18:11:44 <dih> everybody sais that about their patches 18:11:44 <Belugas> i say it does not 18:11:49 <jez9999> i think most people would prefer the new colours 18:11:53 <jez9999> thats what im saying 18:12:02 <dih> every body sais that about their stuff too 18:12:09 <dih> emphasis on _that_ 18:12:18 <yorick> I would like new colors, but not in that way, it makes the whole map darker 18:12:19 <jez9999> dih: and some people get 'their stuff' in trunk. 18:12:21 <Belugas> ok, little secret about users: they will ALWAYS applaude new stuff, no matter waht it is 18:12:29 <yorick> while I only want a changed blue color 18:12:43 <jez9999> you didnt say "YAPF is good for you, but why should it go in trunk?" 18:12:45 <jez9999> why not? 18:12:46 <dih> jez9999: no - _they_ dont get their stuff into trunk 18:12:52 <Diadem> Phantasm: very few towns actually makes the game easier 18:12:52 <yorick> **attention: Belugas reveald his secret about being a dev!*** 18:13:01 <dih> _the devs_ accept _their_ patch and put it into trunk :-P 18:13:02 <Phantasm> Diadem: In what way? 18:13:08 <yorick> no towns in the way 18:13:21 <Diadem> Less towns to demolish :) 18:13:27 * Belugas remembers seen devs patches been rejected a lot before going in.... 18:13:35 <Diadem> I really need only one town on my map, preferably in a corner 18:13:38 <Belugas> don't thuink it is an easy process either 18:13:44 <Phantasm> I'm talking about starting up with those settings.. Not the case 10-15 years later. 18:13:44 <Diadem> to carry goods too 18:13:46 <dih> Diadem: then make that map 18:13:51 <dih> there is a map editor 18:13:56 <jez9999> can you give me a 'more competitive' branch on the OpenTTD SVN server then? 18:14:03 <jez9999> it doesnt have to be the main trunk :-) 18:14:10 <Phantasm> I can agree that once you get started, no matter the settings, you can't go back down. 18:14:19 <Rubidium> dih: there are quite some dev's patches that have been rejected 18:14:20 <dih> jez9999: make a IN thread in the forums 18:14:28 <dih> Rubidium: i know :-) 18:14:31 <Noldo> jez9999: you can make a branch on your own svn server if you feel like it 18:14:41 <Diadem> Phantasm: Ah. Well then we are agreed aren't we :) 18:14:52 <dih> Rubidum: i am actually supporting 'the dev's here - at least i am trying to 18:14:55 <jez9999> yeah but who decides about the main server 18:14:58 <Diadem> Phantasm: I agree that starting up is quite challenging under those settings. But once you're going it reduces to easy mode really 18:15:13 <yorick> jez9999, devs do 18:15:16 <Diadem> (And btw, I have started under such settings, succesfully) 18:15:19 <dih> jeez 18:15:24 <yorick> :D 18:15:27 <dih> ^^ 18:15:35 <jez9999> so, im asking the devs to consider it :-) 18:15:45 <dih> they already said no afaik 18:15:51 <Phantasm> Diadem: Easy yes, but with those settings it is still quite a much slower even after the start. 18:15:51 <yorick> the how manyth time, it is/ 18:15:56 <Belugas> and they will say it again 18:15:57 <Belugas> no 18:16:00 <dih> :-P 18:16:01 <Diadem> Phantasm: true 18:16:09 <yorick> we've got 2 converstations going besides eachother ^^ 18:16:21 <Phantasm> Keeps the game interesting as you don't have too much money so fast. 18:16:43 <dih> jez9999: in all honesty 18:16:59 <Phantasm> Also that gives a point of not doing excessive amount of tracks. If you have say 500 long route on those settings, it'll cost a forture.. Adding few more tracks costs another fortune. 18:16:59 <dih> whatever you start today will not live any longer than any other IN 18:17:17 <Diadem> Phantasm: Anyway my current goal is to see how far I can take a network. My ultimate goal is to transport every industry on a 1024*1024 map to the same place 18:17:23 <jez9999> the MiniIN branch still technically exists :-) 18:17:26 <Phantasm> Diadem: Rofl. 18:17:29 <jez9999> so it probably would 18:17:38 <yorick> argh * ignores ph and dia* 18:18:29 <jez9999> there was talk of a 'community' IN 18:18:32 <jez9999> i kind of like the idea 18:18:33 *** Roujin [~Roujin@p549727D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:18:46 <jez9999> basically an IN with patches that are democratically decided on 18:18:46 <yorick> and it already exists, and is called "trunk" 18:18:56 <jez9999> nonsense, there is zero democracy there :-) 18:19:03 <yorick> who updates it? 18:19:07 <yorick> who manages it? 18:19:09 <jez9999> a few people, like me 18:19:11 <jez9999> :-) 18:19:13 <Diadem> Phantasm: This is the plan I'm working towards :P http://www.phys.uu.nl/~bouwhuis/OTTD/stationlayout.png 18:19:23 <yorick> who fixes bugs coused by patches that are "democratically decided" 18:19:26 <yorick> caused* 18:19:33 <jez9999> yorick: the few people, like me 18:19:55 <yorick> what if you don 18:19:56 <yorick> t 18:19:57 <yorick> ? 18:20:03 <yorick> another IN died 18:20:08 <Diadem> yorick: gotta love IRC 'eh? Always fun 3 different conversations in one channel :) 18:20:19 <Rubidium> problem with INs is that they die and usually pretty quickly 18:20:21 <jez9999> ah but we could have a committee 18:20:27 <jez9999> and if people drop off then others are appointed 18:20:30 <jez9999> with SVN access 18:20:33 <yorick> and who exactly would that be? 18:20:35 <jez9999> then it wouldnt die so easily 18:20:37 <yorick> the dev's? 18:20:40 <jez9999> hell no 18:20:41 <Rubidium> furthermore the quality of those INs is usually very bad 18:20:47 <yorick> you're basically recreating trunk this way 18:20:55 <jez9999> there's a major difference 18:20:58 <Phantasm> Diadem: 3 isn't much. 18:20:59 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:01 <yorick> patches made by the public, a few reviewers... 18:21:01 <jez9999> actually two 18:21:04 <Phantasm> Diadem: 20 at a time on same chan is good. 18:21:11 <jez9999> 1) trunk doesnt have patches that arent 100% stable and tested 18:21:11 <Rubidium> jez9999: yes, that trunk is stable, and that your IN is not 18:21:19 <jez9999> 2) trunk doesnt have patches the devs dont personally like 18:21:25 <jez9999> they're the two things i'd like to change 18:21:31 <jez9999> yeah, sure, but that's ok 18:21:37 <Rubidium> and the IN will most likely not load savegames made in previous versions 18:21:38 <jez9999> they have 2 different functions 18:21:50 <jez9999> but for example my map colour change is 100% stable 18:21:53 <yorick> that IN would also not include patches the committee basically doesn't like 18:22:01 <jez9999> if the majority of users wanted that in it could get in 18:22:06 <yorick> people always say that about their patches 18:22:10 <jez9999> say what? 18:22:14 <yorick> that 18:22:25 <Diadem> Dude.... the main trunk will always contain those changes the devvers like. That's the nature of devs.. That they make the game 18:22:29 <jez9999> yorick: the whole idea is that there would be a rule that the committee didnt decide 18:22:31 <Diadem> kind of comes with the job 18:22:37 <jez9999> they basically took a list of patche submissions and took votes 18:22:40 <Diadem> If you dislike it become a dev yourself 18:22:43 <yorick> they would be committing patches agains their will 18:22:48 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv25.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:22:51 <yorick> and quit being committee 18:22:54 <Diadem> now I gtg 18:22:56 <Diadem> cya g uys 18:23:00 <yorick> and *poof* no committee anymore 18:23:05 <Rubidium> jez9999: in what way is a committee different than the current 'committee of devs'? 18:23:05 *** Diadem is now known as Di|gone 18:23:21 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:30 <jez9999> Rubidium: they have a set of rules that includes 'your personal opinion doesnt matter when it comes to deciding on which patches get in'. 18:24:09 <Rubidium> oh, so when my patch follows some guidelines it goes in without asking? 18:24:15 <jez9999> no, it goes to a vote 18:24:24 <Rubidium> so personal opinion matters 18:24:30 <jez9999> public opinion matters 18:24:32 <jez9999> yeah 18:24:34 <jez9999> i like that idea 18:24:36 <Rubidium> voting == personal opinion 18:24:49 <yorick> jez9999, you're one of 2 18:24:51 <jez9999> yeah, personal opinion _of many people_ 18:24:57 <Rubidium> what's many? 18:24:58 <jez9999> ie. the whole userbase 18:25:00 <yorick> the creator of the idea also liked it 18:25:03 <jez9999> anyone who wants to vote 18:25:11 <Rubidium> jez9999: 99.9% doesn't bother voting 18:25:15 <jez9999> so be it 18:25:22 <yorick> 99.99%* 18:25:28 <Rubidium> and then, what qualifies as a user? 18:25:43 <jez9999> have a registration system 18:25:49 <Dominik> for any project (and also games) someone has to decide what will be done and what won't. someone has to shape that project based on their experience and personal opinion. not everyone will like it but but too many cooks spoil the broth. unlike with closed source projects you could always start your own project based on OpenTTD. 18:25:50 <jez9999> there already is one; tt-forums 18:26:27 <jez9999> Dominik: yes, but that person may be using one of several systems to determine what goes in 18:26:32 <jez9999> im proposing a different system 18:26:47 <Dominik> start your own game project then 18:27:27 <jez9999> does Owen Rudge ever talk anymore? 18:27:31 <jez9999> anyone know how i could contact him 18:27:37 <Prof_Frink> jez9999: Yes. 18:27:42 <blathijs> orudge: jez9999 wants to talk to you 18:27:45 <Prof_Frink> I heard him last night 18:27:52 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: orly ;) 18:27:55 <orudge> hello 18:27:56 <orudge> I do talk 18:27:59 <jez9999> hi 18:28:02 <Sacro> orudge: and you never shut up 18:28:05 <blathijs> jez9999: Your ideas are actually pretty ok, in theory. In practice, things just won't work like that, unfortunately... 18:28:07 <Dominik> this is not a commercial project and your not putting any money into it. if you don't like how it is, do it differently yourself. but you can't force anyone (the OpenTTD devs) to work on any patches that they don't like 18:28:25 <jez9999> orudge: i'd quite like to start a community IN version of openTTD, and it would help a lot if it had a section on the tt-forums board 18:28:49 <orudge> do you really need an entire forum for such a thing? would a topic or two not suffice, for now at least? 18:28:49 <yorick> jez9999, if the public doesn't like democracy, it's basically useless 18:28:50 <jez9999> orudge: the idea would be that mature patches would be proposed for it and voted upon by registered tt-forums users 18:28:55 <orudge> hmm 18:28:56 <Sacro> jez9999: see MiniIN 18:29:03 <orudge> I'd rather not create confusion with "proper" OpenTTD though 18:29:09 <orudge> there are enough -IN versions around 18:29:11 <orudge> that just cause problems 18:29:15 <jez9999> Sacro: does it have its own forum or a democratic vote system, and is it actively maintained? 18:29:32 <jez9999> orudge: would it create confusion? 18:29:36 <Sacro> jez9999: no, it had a topic, and it kinda fell apart around 0.5.0 18:29:39 <jez9999> you could call it 'community IN' with no openttd in the name 18:29:40 <Sacro> it got too hard to maintain 18:29:43 <orudge> jez9999: for new users, often, yes 18:29:45 <jez9999> Sacro: exactly 18:29:47 <Sacro> i think community IN is lready used 18:29:50 <orudge> as they come along and see all these separate versions 18:29:51 <Sacro> wasn't the first one called that? 18:29:54 <orudge> that are incompatible with each other 18:30:07 <jez9999> 'community IN' is not used for any forum section 18:30:23 <jez9999> im talking about a new forum section like ttdpatch, openttd, etc 18:30:33 <orudge> Yes 18:30:40 <Belugas> jez TTD 18:30:46 <yorick> I wish you good luck 18:30:56 <orudge> but I'm not sure that I particularly like the idea of your project, if I'm honest 18:31:04 <orudge> many "integrated nightly"-type projects have been and gone 18:31:05 <jez9999> oh :-) 18:31:14 <jez9999> but my idea's kind of fundamentally different 18:31:16 <yorick> ah, lets vote to his project 18:31:17 <orudge> you're very welcome to have a topic or three on the forum 18:31:20 <jez9999> they all revolved around 1 guy building it :-) 18:31:25 <orudge> but I think a whole forum isn't something I want to give you at the moment, anyway 18:31:29 <orudge> if it becomes really popular, perhaps 18:31:33 <Rubidium> jez9999: MiniIN was a multi-person thing 18:31:44 <yorick> raise hand if you like it! 18:31:51 <jez9999> i liked the miniIN 18:31:57 <jez9999> didnt get enough of a critical mass though 18:32:07 <jez9999> szeparate forum area might get more of a dedicated community 18:32:10 <jez9999> one thread doesnt tend to 18:32:13 <Rubidium> jez9999: it did get to the critical mass to kill itself 18:32:17 <jez9999> heh 18:32:21 <yorick> hmm...107 people are agains it :) 18:32:24 <yorick> t 18:32:53 <yorick> hehe 18:32:57 * orudge brb, reboot 18:33:21 <Rubidium> yorick: thanks for holding the vote. For what I've seen it was completely fair and nobody has obstructed it. 18:33:23 <dih> yorick: ask in #openttdcoop 18:33:27 <dih> get another bunch there 18:33:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12519 /branches/noai/ (13 files in 5 dirs): 18:33:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AILog with Info(), Warning(), and Error() 18:33:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: redirect AI outputs to the AI Debug GUI to show it per AI, in a clear way ingame (no more need for stderr viewing) 18:33:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: NOTE: it still does output to stderr, but on an other DEBUG() level (depending on the message). 18:34:01 <dih> IN's just dont tend to live _that_ long 18:34:30 <Patrick`> mmm, the miniIN had lots of cool patches 18:34:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12520 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12519: of course I forget to regenerate MSVC project files (bah, MSVC.. always MSVC... who uses MSVC?!) 18:35:08 <Rubidium> the whole problems with INs is that once they get 20 to 30 patches they simply die because they've become unmaintainable 18:35:21 <jez9999> Rubidium: you dont seem to have been listening to my proposal 18:35:25 <jez9999> maybe i didnt explain it properly 18:35:37 <Patrick`> jez9999: he gets paid to listen to you, you know 18:35:38 <yorick> Quite. 18:35:43 <Sacro> startPos += ++endPos 18:35:43 <jez9999> it basically would get continually repatched from scratch, and patches would be added/removed based on constant voted 18:35:45 <jez9999> votes 18:35:50 <dih> jez9999: i am pretty sure Rubidium has read enough of your proposals 18:35:54 <jez9999> heh 18:36:07 <dih> remember 18:36:13 <dih> all devs in here also have lives 18:36:14 <yorick> that looks very labor-intensive and unmaintainable 18:36:19 <yorick> they do? 18:36:19 <dih> so what they do on OpenTTD is free time 18:36:34 <blathijs> What? Free time? Where? 18:36:34 <yorick> they seem to have a lot of :p 18:36:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12521 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.hpp ai_company.hpp): [NoAI] -Change: make the style of end-of-line doxygen comments be the same for the whole AI API. 18:36:56 <dih> yorick: what appears to be on the surface aint what is underneath 18:37:10 <yorick> "." 18:37:33 <yorick> that line really needs one ^^. 18:38:01 <dih> jez9999: as for all your proposals 18:38:08 <blathijs> While you're at it, might as well capitalize it as well :-) 18:38:08 <dih> just look at the number of IN's around 18:38:28 <dih> just look at how many are actively maintained 18:38:38 <dih> check how long they have been around for 18:38:40 <yorick> 1 18:38:41 <jez9999> dih: that's like comparing saddam hussain's dictatorship with Finland's democracy 18:38:47 <jez9999> they're both leaderships, but one is democratic 18:38:48 <yorick> a few months 18:38:50 <Mirrakor> hm.. can I do something against the synchronisation errors in multiplayer? 18:38:57 <yorick> nothing 18:39:02 <yorick> disable grf's? 18:39:02 <dih> jez9999: you seem to talk bull crap 18:39:05 <jez9999> lol 18:39:20 <Rubidium> jez9999: so you can as non-politician vote directly for every law? 18:39:20 * Belugas agrees with dih 18:39:33 * yorick agrees with Belugas 18:39:46 <dih> jez9999: you know the best thing you can learn here 18:39:53 <Belugas> youhou! democracy in motion! 18:39:54 <dih> is accepting leadership :-D 18:40:04 <jez9999> thanks, but nobody offered it to me 18:40:08 <dih> and the 'leaders' are the devs 18:40:29 <dih> so you can suggest, but dont expect 18:40:34 * yorick agrees with dih again 18:40:39 <Rubidium> jez9999: you haven't answered my question 18:40:42 <jez9999> Rubidium: well, yeah. it doesnt work well with regular democracy as laws are very complex, but with openttd patches... 18:40:56 <jez9999> combined with a userbase that is inherently interested in openttd 18:41:02 <yorick> good ones are also very complex 18:41:08 <dih> :-P 18:41:09 <jez9999> but the ideas behind them arent 18:41:11 <dih> and worth it 18:41:14 <jez9999> only the code 18:41:19 <jez9999> you're voting on the ideas 18:41:26 <dih> jez9999 another thing is - asumptions are bad 18:41:32 <Rubidium> jez9999: the ideas behind laws are very easy too, and there are very easy laws to vote for 18:41:32 <yorick> the ideas behinds laws aren't, are they? 18:41:43 <yorick> the contents are what makes a law complex. 18:41:48 <dih> i doubt that many people here will be able to grasp what actually goes on behind the scenes of OpenTTD 18:41:59 <jez9999> they dont need to... 18:42:05 <jez9999> unless they're implementing the patch 18:42:06 <dih> they should 18:42:23 <dih> because if they do they can once and for all stop the nagging 18:42:28 <dih> ^subtle hint 18:42:31 <Mirrakor> another question sorry: Is it possible to exchange some goods between a truck station and a train station? 18:42:37 <jez9999> i'd say most laws in a parliament are much more complex than an openttd patch 18:42:44 <dih> Mirrakor: yes 18:42:46 <jez9999> law in parliament: 50 pages of text 18:42:48 <dih> use transfere 18:42:48 <yorick> try transfer & unload, Mirrakor 18:42:48 <Mirrakor> dih: how? 18:42:53 <Mirrakor> ok 18:42:55 <jez9999> openttd patch: the patch does x, y, and z. should it go in? 18:43:07 <dih> no 18:43:11 <yorick> jez9999: idea behind a law: 1 page 18:43:17 <jez9999> heh 18:43:17 <dih> jez9999: just look at coding guidelines 18:43:19 <Rubidium> yorick: or less 18:43:26 <jez9999> coding guidelines? 18:43:28 <dih> as that can already be a reason for deniying it 18:43:30 <Patrick`> Mirrakor: yes 18:43:37 <jez9999> dih: in the trunk, yeah 18:43:38 <yorick> just the formal stuff 18:43:39 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 18:43:41 <jez9999> we're not talking about the trunk 18:43:47 <Patrick`> Mirrakor: you know stations merge, rigth? 18:43:48 <Belugas> dih, jez9999 does not know waht is code style, for starter :( 18:43:48 <yorick> you seem to 18:44:01 <jez9999> Belugas: heh, i do now 18:44:01 <yorick> ;( 18:44:05 <jez9999> i had that hammered into me 18:44:08 <yorick> he didn't speak to you! 18:44:19 <jez9999> i didnt speak to you 18:44:24 <dih> jez9999: register openJezTTD 18:44:25 <Mirrakor> Patrick`: not sure - I just clicked the transfer button and afterwards clicked unload... :) 18:44:26 <dih> .org 18:44:30 <jez9999> heh 18:44:30 <dih> get servers 18:44:35 <dih> setup svn 18:44:40 <dih> (where you might already fail ^^) 18:44:52 <dih> and grow a community 18:44:59 <jez9999> yeah 18:44:59 <dih> but dont expect anybody from here to follow 18:45:06 <jez9999> i could do with tt-forum tho 18:45:08 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:08 <yorick> (where you certainly fail ^^) 18:45:11 <dih> well - perhaps you could get yorick if you give him svn access :-P 18:45:26 <Sacro> svn access? 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12522 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_log.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: forgot to comment one struct 18:45:39 <dih> jez9999: start something before wanting to shoot over the mountains 18:45:46 <yorick> but not for committing patches against my will, dih 18:45:54 <dih> ^^ 18:46:05 <Mirrakor> hm.. now it said transfered (and showed an amount of euros.. but where is it now? 18:46:17 <yorick> in the station 18:46:20 <dih> Mirrakor: there are wiki pages 18:46:23 <dih> wiki.openttd.org 18:46:27 <dih> search for transfer 18:46:32 <jez9999> probably need to re-apply the patches in the communityIN on a weekly basis 18:46:36 <dih> people dont just write that drivel for decoration 18:46:47 <jez9999> also if the author didnt update the patch to be compatible it couldnt go in 18:47:05 <dih> jez9999 you can discuss your "IN' in #jez_out 18:47:13 <Mirrakor> dih: I'm perfectly fine if you give me keywords :) 18:47:21 <Rubidium> jez9999: so you force people to start over with their games every week, just to get bugfixes? 18:47:28 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:47:29 <dih> Mirrakor: you had the keyword all the time 18:47:33 <yorick> Mirrakor: stations 18:47:35 <jez9999> force? 18:47:36 <dih> you just did not use your thinker :-P 18:47:38 <jez9999> heh 18:47:38 <Mirrakor> my Problem is that I try to translate it back and then search for another keyword 18:47:50 <Dominik> have you ever tried applying more than 3-5 patches to a working copy? 18:48:02 <Mirrakor> no I searched for things like "exchange" and got 0 results :/ 18:48:03 <jez9999> if the bugfix makes the game incompatible with a previous build, that's exactly what they have to do with the trunk 18:48:03 <Rubidium> jez9999: just removing/adding patches when people have not updated them causes savegames to be incompatible between 'releases' 18:48:04 <dih> <-- has 18:48:14 <Rubidium> *unless* you start adding savegame compatability code like a mad man 18:48:16 <jez9999> well yeah that would be a last resort 18:48:25 <jez9999> but i guess occasionally it would happen 18:48:38 <yorick> it happens all the time in trunk 18:48:40 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41673.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:48:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 18:48:44 <dih> Bjarni! 18:48:45 <yorick> Bjarni! 18:48:46 <Rubidium> jez9999, from personal opinion: s/occasionally/usually/ 18:48:47 * dih was first 18:48:49 <jez9999> the aim is to have a good functional game, not so much savegame compatibility 18:48:58 <Rubidium> jez9999, from personal experience: s/occasionally/usually/ 18:48:58 * yorick made a typo at first ;( 18:49:02 <peter1138> A[A[Ad savegames and newgrfs and ...). 18:49:11 <dih> jez9999: go to the ChrisIN page 18:49:30 <Rubidium> jez9999: without savegame compatability people will whine like hell and you would generally not get a wide user base 18:49:47 <jez9999> they do have compatibility 18:49:49 * Sacro is fairly wide :( 18:49:57 <jez9999> they just finish their previous game in the previous version :-D 18:50:00 <Rubidium> MiniIN started to gain momentum once the people got assured that savegames could be loaded in later versions of the MiniIN. 18:50:14 <Rubidium> jez9999: so you force people to play with bugs that are fixed in a newer version. 18:50:31 <jez9999> as i said before, i hope incompatibility wouldnt happen often 18:50:42 <yorick> it does in chrisin 18:50:43 <Rubidium> and quite a lot of people tend to play games over weeks, month or years 18:50:43 <jez9999> if certain patches were unreliable that would probably be a candidate for not committing them 18:50:55 <Dominik> why don't you just start your own "patched version" for a start and if it runs well you could make it into the kind of project you're talking about. 18:51:11 <yorick> and get a community 18:51:19 <Rubidium> jez9999: the after about 1 month of inclusion in MiniIN 50-80 % of the patch authors stopped maintaining their patch because "it is in MiniIN" 18:52:05 <jez9999> well, yeah, it would be nicer if there were some devs prepared to work on the trunk as well as a 'cutting edge' version 18:52:09 <jez9999> many projects have such a setup 18:52:18 <jez9999> with openttd there is the trunk and cutting edge isnt really maintained 18:52:55 <jez9999> if it were people wouldnt need INs 18:52:57 <Rubidium> jez9999: too few good developers and too little free time for the good developers 18:53:03 *** Sacro is now known as L 18:53:13 <jez9999> Rubidium: ahh, 'good' developers :-) 18:53:19 <jez9999> nice way of screening me out 18:53:20 *** yorick is now known as Q 18:53:28 <Rubidium> jez9999: any idea *how* many custom versions of the Linux kernel there are? 18:53:29 <jez9999> 'good' being subjective 18:53:44 <jez9999> Linux? 18:53:48 *** L is now known as Sacro 18:53:59 *** Q is now known as yorick 18:54:00 <Rubidium> jez9999: that has a 'stable' and 'IN' version 18:54:26 <Rubidium> and *many* *many* different custom flavours of that vanilla stable version because the IN doesn't contain what they like 18:54:53 <jez9999> linux is vastly more complicated than openttd, and that is a bad comparison 18:54:56 <Rubidium> just because their stuff doesn't get (or isn't) into the linux kernel 18:54:59 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:43 <yorick> jez9999, as said may times before, set up openjezTTD 18:55:51 <jez9999> when i say vastly, i mean about 10,000 times more 18:56:08 <Rubidium> jez9999: then show me a project being as complex as OTTD that has the setup you want 18:56:17 * jez9999 searches google :-) 18:56:18 <Rubidium> or rather, show me at least 10 18:56:22 <jez9999> 10? 18:56:25 <jez9999> that's not fair :-) 18:56:28 <Rubidium> why? 18:56:30 <Rubidium> you said many 18:56:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:56:41 <jez9999> but that was a handwavey thing 18:56:42 <yorick> 10,000 18:56:47 <Rubidium> I'm pretty fair, because many would be several hundreds for me 18:56:55 <yorick> thousands 18:57:07 <jez9999> cPanel has a stable and EDGE 18:57:18 <Rubidium> OpenTTD too 18:57:22 <Rubidium> 0.6 and trunk 18:57:39 <jez9999> well i think openttd trunk is a bit too conservative 18:57:44 <jez9999> i wouldnt call it edge 18:57:50 <yorick> ok, go maintaining your own 18:57:55 <yorick> and stop complaining here 18:58:16 <yorick> get to #jez_out, and get your community there 18:58:20 <Noldo> consevative in what way? 18:58:32 <yorick> not many patches committed 18:58:52 <Bjarni> <jez9999> well i think openttd trunk is a bit too conservative <-- what do you mean? 18:59:31 <yorick> Bjarni, get yourself a copy of the logs 18:59:37 <Rubidium> jez9999: cPanel cannot be compared with OpenTTD because cPanel is much bigger than OpenTTD. It's even proprietary 19:00:08 <jez9999> bigger?> 19:00:19 <jez9999> so, openttd is an even better candidate for an edge version 19:00:33 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 19:00:51 <Rubidium> jez9999: there is a paid staff; there isn't a paid staff for OpenTTD 19:00:57 <jez9999> i'd also say Firefox has quite a few patches committed 19:01:03 <jez9999> although it is more conservative than i'd like 19:01:04 * Belugas thinks that edge version sounds like laboratory in jez9999's vocabulary 19:01:13 <Rubidium> Firefox is also HUGE and has paid staff 19:01:22 <Sacro> Rubidium: like your mum 19:01:24 * Sacro hides 19:01:38 * Maedhros doesn't see how the fact that OpenTTD is smaller than cPanel means it should be more unstable 19:01:52 <jez9999> it should be easier to keep stable 19:01:53 <jez9999> less to review 19:02:15 <jez9999> and anyway it doesnt have the be the main trunk, it can be a branch labeled 'UNSTABLE AS HELL' for all i care 19:02:23 <Maedhros> heh. have you ever tried to track down a desync? 19:02:32 <jez9999> you wouldnt need to. 19:02:40 <jez9999> if it breaks, you take the trunk and reapply patches until it breaks 19:02:49 <jez9999> when it breaks, that patch is at faulkt 19:03:14 <Rubidium> jez9999: have you ever tried to make a desync reproducable enough to test it that way? 19:03:29 <jez9999> you wouldnt need to 19:03:34 <Rubidium> why? 19:03:35 <jez9999> because it would be called 'unstable' :-) 19:03:54 <jez9999> that's the idea of edge versions 19:04:06 <Belugas> lol 19:04:29 <Rubidium> so the idea of an edge version is NEVER making it stable? 19:04:33 <Belugas> that is really a funny way to solve stuff :D 19:04:41 <jez9999> no, but the idea is that it isnt a priority 19:04:48 <jez9999> the priority is new and exciting features 19:04:51 <jez9999> and improvements 19:04:57 <Rubidium> jez9999: that means NO stables 19:05:06 <jez9999> depends how you define stable 19:05:16 <jez9999> maybe not stable enough to hold an openttdcoop multiplayer 19:05:20 <jez9999> but that's not the focus of the build 19:05:22 <Rubidium> well, something that doesn't crash and desync every few minutes 19:05:29 <jez9999> not the focus of the build 19:06:28 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has joined #openttd 19:06:39 <Rubidium> what does edge lead to then when it does not lead to stables? 19:06:43 <Belugas> jez9999, that's not EDGE, it's butchery 19:07:16 <yorick> how many times, it's said that he should get himself openJezTTD? 19:07:44 <yorick> stop complaining about a free project, please, if you want it better, make your own 19:07:47 <Patrick`> jez9999: you think that it'd be personally more beneficial for you if the system was run this way? there's a patch you wanted but saw fall into disrepair? 19:08:17 <dih> jez9999: take it to #moocows 19:08:25 <mrfrenzy> I will be happy to be betatester of openJezTTD 19:08:31 <yorick> patrick`, there've been multiple 19:08:35 <mrfrenzy> when will the first rc be out? ;) 19:08:46 <Rubidium> mrfrenzy: NEVER 19:08:47 <jez9999> :-) 19:08:58 <yorick> subsidiaries, PBS, signals on bridges, ... 19:09:00 <jez9999> it's already out, it's on my hard drive actually 19:09:05 <yorick> paxdest 19:09:20 <Rubidium> because it will NEVER lead to a stable, because the priority is new and unstable features, not making it stable in any way 19:09:34 <Rubidium> and a RC would mean some kind of stableness 19:09:35 <jez9999> why do you place so much importance on stability? 19:09:45 <dih> lol 19:09:46 <jez9999> that's what trunk is for 19:09:47 <stillunknown> Because it is important. 19:09:54 <jez9999> not in an edge build 19:10:02 <dih> lololol 19:10:03 <jez9999> the odd crash is ok 19:10:08 <Belugas> game that always blow up is a very good feature... 19:10:08 <dih> LOL 19:10:15 <jez9999> and it wouldn't happen much anyway. most patches arent *that* bad 19:10:21 <Belugas> Hey, do not need to bur report it, it is EDGE! 19:10:40 <jez9999> no, bug report it, but the difference it's in the edge, and not in the trunk 19:10:41 <jez9999> see? 19:10:43 <dih> sounds like jez had a wee bit too much of MS 19:10:43 <stillunknown> Obscure crashes are hardly desire-able. 19:10:47 <Belugas> jez9999, you really do not know waht you are talking about. 19:10:50 <Rubidium> jez9999: yeah... me finding *big* bugs in patches that are apparantly tested months in an IN 19:10:58 <jez9999> Belugas: i think i do, but ok. 19:11:09 <dih> kick 19:11:13 <Belugas> if you did, you would not say stuff like you do 19:11:14 <Rubidium> the big problem about INs is that people do not complain about bugs and/or crashes 19:11:20 <dih> @votekick 19:11:23 <Rubidium> or at least not complain as much 19:11:35 <yorick> dih: true 19:11:36 <Rubidium> which then causes people to think they patch is flawless 19:11:40 <jez9999> Rubidium: did i say you had to integrate patches in the edge IN? 19:11:47 <jez9999> you wait until you want to, or never do 19:11:50 <jez9999> it doesnt matter 19:12:05 <jez9999> you carry on with the trunk the same as now 19:12:11 <yorick> or 1/bool true/!false/!0/!bool false :) 19:12:12 <Rubidium> I'll just feed you some patches 19:12:12 * dih slaps jez9999 19:12:22 <yorick> *fight* 19:12:28 * yorick would slap jez9999, but is not being violent today 19:12:33 <dih> @kick jez9999 19:12:42 <dih> :-( 19:12:47 <Bjarni> behave yourself 19:12:58 <yorick> I wasn't violent today :) 19:13:25 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-29-28.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:26 <stillunknown> jez9999 is like those people who think one memory error per hour is good. 19:13:37 <dih> ^^ 19:13:43 <yorick> multiple 19:13:44 <dih> M$ 19:13:50 <Bjarni> memory errors? 19:13:55 <Bjarni> what's what? 19:13:58 <jez9999> Bjarni: he probably means page faults 19:13:59 <Bjarni> I forgot :( 19:14:02 <yorick> very small soft windows! 19:14:17 <stillunknown> I mean a bit that didn't hold it's value, or something like that. 19:14:18 <yorick> breaks easily :) 19:14:34 <Rubidium> jez9999: actually stillunknown knows the difference between memory errors and 'page faults' 19:14:52 <jez9999> so do i 19:14:57 <yorick> bjarni doesn't 19:15:00 <yorick> heh 19:15:01 <Bjarni> ... 19:15:19 <blathijs> Actually, page faults are supposed to happen IIRC, while memory errors means you need to get new hardware :-) 19:15:19 <ln> !inrajB 19:15:32 <jez9999> blathijs: sigh, it sucks when you have to explain jokes 19:15:51 <yorick> @votekick 19:15:59 <stillunknown> In some cases you actually want to create massive amounts of page faults. 19:16:10 <Bjarni> I said that I forgot what "memory errors" is.... indicating a memory error 19:16:17 <jez9999> :-) 19:16:24 <Bjarni> but you guys appears to miss that point :/ 19:16:30 <yorick> Quite. 19:16:34 <jez9999> Bjarni: comedy doesnt work in here 19:17:21 <blathijs> Bjarni: Woops :-) 19:17:39 <stillunknown> jez9999: The fact remains that in C(++) you have to be very careful, and even the thought of letting bugs slip is not good. 19:17:41 <yorick> ...too...complicated...lost...one...hour...of...sleep...sleepy...zzz...ZzZ...zZz...zzz...ZZZ....... 19:17:44 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:18:12 <stillunknown> Not to mention merging with mainline becomes a huge problem. 19:18:15 <jez9999> stillunknown: i take the point, but i think it could be managed without having the level of strictness that trunk has. 19:19:40 <Rubidium> jez9999: really got no idea how much work it is to hunt bugs 19:19:46 <Rubidium> and especially to hunt desyncs 19:20:05 <Belugas> no, he does not, since he just offer patches, no bug fixes... 19:20:22 <dih> lol 19:20:27 <Belugas> maybe if he did, his opinion would be VERY different 19:20:41 <Dominik> you're still discussing that ridiculous idea? 19:20:43 <Rubidium> the best way to improve your 'goodness' status is fixing bugs 19:20:52 <jez9999> i guess chrisIN is pretty close to what i want, just could do with being more democratic :-) 19:21:05 <jez9999> and also chrisIN will probably die sometime, and with a committee it would be less likely to 19:21:09 <jez9999> so they're the two main points 19:21:17 <Rubidium> jez9999: START you IN 19:21:29 <jez9999> still based around 1 person 19:21:38 <Rubidium> well... find someone who wants to help you 19:21:45 <Belugas> well... find some good souls :) 19:21:54 <jez9999> mm 19:22:04 <Rubidium> 3 persons are not enough to keep an IN running with 30+ patches applied 19:22:29 * dih agrees 19:22:38 <Belugas> Let see... chris, gonozo and jez 19:22:40 <Belugas> that is 3 :) 19:22:48 <dih> lol 19:22:49 <Dominik> hey jez9999, i'll help you! 19:22:53 <Dominik> ...at only 50 Euro/hour 19:22:59 <dih> lol 19:23:12 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-225-220.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:23:13 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:24 <yorick> I would help you for 100 euro/hour 19:23:45 <yorick> with a max of 1 hour/day, 3 days/week, if more, double the costs 19:23:49 <henkie> wth is an IN? 19:23:53 <dih> yoyick: you are too young 19:24:11 <Belugas> henkie, INtegrated version of different user patches 19:24:23 <henkie> ah 19:24:54 <stillunknown> jez9999: You're better of trying to get a single feature into trunk. 19:25:02 <yorick> dih, still dreaming> 19:25:09 <dih> ^^ 19:25:10 <jez9999> stillunknown: heh, wow, that's saying something 19:25:27 <henkie> am i looking for an AI which helps me build, so i can just watch the trains move :) 19:25:49 <henkie> maybe a self-learing thingie 19:25:55 <henkie> i would call it SkyNet 19:26:00 <dih> lol 19:26:05 <Belugas> you'll havge better chance of learning through multiplayer games :) 19:26:05 <dih> bad name 19:26:09 <dih> ^^ 19:26:13 <henkie> SkyNetAI? 19:26:20 <dih> worse 19:26:22 <jez9999> you can't compete properly in the current version of OpenTTD 19:26:30 <henkie> Belugas, i dont want to learn, i want the AI to learn :) 19:26:35 <dih> look at noai 19:26:35 <jez9999> i'd love multiplayer more if you could put a competitor out of business 19:26:39 * Dominik is rebooting again 19:26:43 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:10 <dih> jez9999: play quake 3 19:27:16 <jez9999> i do play CS 19:27:25 <henkie> ArnoldAI? 19:27:28 <jez9999> maybe you should be able to shoot competitors 19:27:30 <henkie> that's just stupid 19:27:34 <dih> then play that and give peace 19:27:56 <henkie> or combine OpenTTD with GTA :) 19:28:12 <jez9999> there are no other cars on the road in openttd 19:28:13 <jez9999> no fun 19:28:27 <yorick> lets kick him :) 19:28:37 <jez9999> although running over opponents' busses is fun 19:28:40 * dih ignores jez9999 - annoying kid 19:28:43 <Belugas> who votes for kicking jez9999? 19:28:47 <dih> me 19:28:48 * jez9999 votes against 19:28:55 <Prof_Frink> Belugas: on IRC, or reality? 19:29:01 <dih> lol 19:29:02 <Belugas> lol 19:29:12 * yorick votes for 19:29:14 <Belugas> i take that as a Yeah! 19:29:19 *** jez9999 [virtua@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 19:29:24 <dih> yay 19:29:25 <yorick> autokick :) 19:29:26 <Belugas> muwhahah! 19:29:33 <dih> ^^ 19:29:33 <yorick> wahahahahahahahahahahahahaha 19:29:34 <Di|gone> don't you need operator status in this universum, to kick someone in reality? :) 19:29:36 <henkie> hehe, he went and told his mom i bet 19:29:38 <yorick> hahahahaha 19:29:38 <dih> you bad ass 19:29:40 <yorick> hahaha 19:29:43 <yorick> lololol 19:29:44 <yorick> rofl 19:29:46 <yorick> heh 19:29:50 <yorick> hehe 19:29:54 <Belugas> Di|gone, yes you do 19:30:19 *** Di|gone is now known as Diadem 19:31:41 <henkie> now i dont have anything to read anymore :( 19:32:04 <henkie> is there a Changelog for beta5 -> rc1? 19:32:45 <Belugas> yes, on the forum's announcement of RC1 19:32:49 <Rubidium> see the rc1 changelog 19:32:49 <Belugas> and on the packages too 19:33:25 <henkie> tnx 19:34:59 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78.107.162.153] has joined #openttd 19:35:06 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:11 * Belugas listens to Orgy - Blue Monday 19:42:00 <dih> so silent ^^ 19:42:07 <yorick> sure 19:42:16 <yorick> shh...dih wants to speak 19:43:49 <Belugas> by the way, did anyone ran some of these industry tests , apart dih? 19:43:55 <Belugas> good dih... 19:44:00 * Belugas pets dih 19:44:02 <Belugas> ;) 19:44:15 <dih> lol 19:44:37 <Belugas> and of course apart Rubidium, Maedhros and Phantasm 19:49:24 * yorick pats Rubidium, Maedhros 19:49:34 <yorick> pets* 19:49:56 <yorick> but Phantasm could bit 19:49:57 <yorick> e 19:50:04 <yorick> argh... 19:50:34 * Phantasm bites yorick. 19:51:49 <yorick> see ^^ 19:51:51 <Belugas> and Phantasm is very usefull and not lazy as we had first tough of. There has just been a lot of misunderstanding 19:52:07 <Belugas> just for the record... 19:52:17 <Belugas> getting it straight 19:52:20 <Belugas> the record, 19:52:25 <Belugas> not Phantasm.. 19:52:40 <yorick> :D 19:52:44 * Phantasm bites yorick again. ;P 19:52:45 <Belugas> fantasms are never straight... alwasy devious.. 19:53:11 <Phantasm> yorick: You run a test as well and I might not bite you anymore in the future. :) 19:53:16 <Belugas> feqwww...two new features and a release... 19:53:18 * yorick gets Phantasm a rabies-immunity 19:53:24 <Belugas> for work@work :P 19:53:31 <yorick> oh noes! 19:53:36 <yorick> it's 21:53 19:54:24 <dih> fibble wibble foo and bar went to a.... 19:54:24 <Bjarni> so how many of you were late today? 19:54:26 <dih> pub 19:54:35 <dih> i was not 19:54:38 <dih> i was not 19:54:39 <Bjarni> or works/studies with somebody who were an hour late 19:54:42 <Sacro> Bjarni: i was, think i might be pregnant 19:54:56 <dih> lol 19:55:18 <dih> Sacro: you WERE late and think you ARE pregnant? 19:55:30 <Bjarni> Sacro: that reply was right on time though 19:56:05 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 19:56:17 <Bjarni> Sacro: who is the lucky fellow who boned you? 19:56:18 <dih> hello Osai 19:56:20 <Bjarni> wait 19:56:27 <Bjarni> I don't want to know :P 19:56:30 <dih> lol 19:56:37 <Osai> hi dih 19:56:44 <Osai> gimme 10 minutes 19:56:57 * Bjarni hands a minute to Osai 19:56:58 <dih> that line just came to the wrong time 19:56:59 <Osai> first training today after my sickness 19:57:09 <Bjarni> sickness? 19:57:19 <dih> boning sacro 19:57:23 <dih> ^^ 19:57:24 <Bjarni> lol 19:57:31 <Bjarni> yeah that's sick 19:57:36 <Bjarni> and unhealthy 19:57:50 <Osai> noro is something really evil 19:57:59 <dih> sacro on his/its own is unhealthy 19:58:02 <Sacro> :( 19:58:05 * Sacro cries 19:58:07 <Bjarni> you were possessed by Sacro? 19:58:14 <ln> Bjarni: does danish use the "som" thing in indirect questions? 19:58:25 * dih hands a tishue to Sacro 19:58:27 * yorick are possessed by ourselves 19:58:32 <dih> it's for the TEARS Sacro 19:58:52 *** Osai is now known as Osai^away 19:58:57 <dih> :-( 19:58:58 <Bjarni> but Sacro always finds different purposes for stuff he is around 19:59:06 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Possesed quit!] 19:59:22 <Bjarni> ln: err.... what kind of question is that??? 19:59:29 <dih> [21:59] * [jez9999] (virtua@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk): Jez 19:59:29 <dih> [21:59] * [jez9999] #openttd.ChrisIN #openttd.noai 19:59:29 <dih> [21:59] * [jez9999] galapagos.oftc.net :The Netherlands 19:59:29 <dih> [21:59] * [jez9999] 87.194.212.214 :actually using host 19:59:29 <dih> [21:59] * [jez9999] End of WHOIS list. 19:59:31 <dih> lol 19:59:48 <dih> Sacro: stop crying 19:59:54 <Bjarni> lol? 19:59:56 <dih> as if that would help :-P 20:00:15 <ln> Bjarni: for example, "Vet du vem _som_ bor hÀr?" 20:00:40 <Bjarni> maybe Sacro's boyfriend is a sadomasochist and that's why Sacro cries 20:00:53 <Bjarni> or maybe Sacro is 20:00:57 <dih> in which case Sacro would enjoy it 20:01:13 * dih just does not want to know 20:01:17 <Bjarni> a cry of joy 20:01:21 <Bjarni> well that's possible 20:01:34 * dih puts on a life suite and jumps 20:01:57 <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: for example, "Vet du vem _som_ bor hÀr?" <-- that's not an indirect question (or Danish for that matter) 20:02:11 <dih> that is not indirect danish? 20:02:28 <ln> Bjarni: Jeg vet, men jeg taler ikke sÃ¥ fint danske. 20:02:29 <Bjarni> but I guess it's possible to use "som" in an indirect question 20:03:23 <Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: Jeg vet, men jeg taler ikke sÃ¥ fint danske. <-- it's better than some of the people who applies for Danish citizenship o_O 20:03:25 <ln> Bjarni: but my point is: in swedish it is wrong to omit that "som", i.e. "Vet du vem bor hÀr?" is wrong. 20:03:40 <ln> \o/ 20:04:05 * glx points Bjarni and dih to the topic 20:04:21 <Bjarni> I think I would say "Ved du hvem der bor her?" 20:04:52 * dih points out to glx that he did not use another lang 20:05:12 <Bjarni> but maybe dih failed to use UTF-8 20:05:18 <dih> did not 20:05:31 <glx> no but I see lot of non english words 20:05:38 <dih> yes? where? 20:05:43 <dih> from me? 20:05:48 <Bjarni> from ln 20:05:52 <dih> HA 20:05:58 <glx> oups sorry dih 20:06:02 <Bjarni> it would appear that he is studying Danish for some reason 20:06:06 <dih> haha 20:06:07 <dih> glx 20:06:13 <dih> i forgive you :-P 20:06:15 <ln> i'm definitely not studying Danish. 20:06:25 <Bjarni> :( 20:06:29 <Bjarni> why not? 20:06:36 <glx> then why using it? 20:06:42 <Bjarni> it's a nice language 20:06:48 <Bjarni> I use it on a daily basis 20:06:53 <glx> for danish people yes 20:06:54 <ln> glx: to shock bjarni 20:06:57 <dih> eny language could be considered a nice language 20:07:02 <dih> appart from swiss german 20:07:03 <glx> but ln is not danish 20:07:03 <Bjarni> no 20:07:30 <Bjarni> <dih> eny language could be considered a nice language <--- it wouldn't take long to make a list of exceptions 20:07:39 <Bjarni> but it would take forever to make it complete 20:07:48 <dih> [22:07] <dih> appart from swiss german <-- i have already started the list :-D 20:08:13 <dih> that that is even unpleasent to speack 20:08:17 <Bjarni> you can change that line 20:08:21 <Bjarni> to "* German" 20:08:28 * dih slaps Bjarni 20:08:31 <Bjarni> :P 20:08:44 <dih> <german swearing sensored> 20:08:44 <glx> canadian french is weird ;) 20:08:44 <Bjarni> actually German isn't that bad 20:08:58 <dih> we can at least be very creative with words 20:09:00 <Bjarni> yeah 20:09:06 <Bjarni> so is French French 20:09:12 <dih> lol 20:09:16 <dih> welsh ^^ 20:09:28 <Bjarni> Welsh is nice 20:09:32 *** Roujin [~Roujin@p549727D2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 20:09:37 <dih> no that would get any half way decent person confuddled 20:09:39 <Bjarni> but tricky to understand for non Welsh people 20:09:47 <dih> and to read 20:09:59 <Bjarni> and remember placenames 20:09:59 <dih> i mean 20:10:03 <dih> jasdlkfjaslkdfj asdlkja sdlkfjasd 20:10:06 <dih> could mean hello 20:10:08 <dih> who knows 20:10:11 *** O^Brien [~pIRCuser6@hard-soft--121.colo2.kv.wnet.ua] has joined #openttd 20:10:15 <Bjarni> no it can't 20:10:17 <dih> ^^ 20:10:26 <dih> as far as i am concerned it could :-P 20:10:33 <Bjarni> it doesn't sound Welsh at all 20:10:45 <dih> they never write what they say 20:10:48 <Bjarni> sounds more like dihish 20:10:49 <dih> they never say what they read 20:11:02 <Bjarni> or brainfuck 20:11:10 <Bjarni> it's hard to tell the difference between those two 20:11:21 <dih> lol 20:11:48 *** Osai^away is now known as Osai 20:11:53 <Sacro> Rubidium: thanks for the help ^^ 20:12:00 <Bjarni> o_O 20:12:05 <dih> ? 20:12:10 <Bjarni> Rubidium is the father? 20:12:20 * dih was thinking in a similar direction 20:12:25 <Sacro> no, i coulnd't remember the name of element number 37 20:12:43 <Bjarni> I have that on a shirt 20:12:46 <Bjarni> the name I mean 20:12:48 <Bjarni> not the question 20:12:49 <orudge> "Rubidium"? 20:12:51 <orudge> stalker. 20:12:59 <Bjarni> err 20:13:13 <Bjarni> actually I have a shirt with the whole periodic table 20:13:17 <orudge> Ah, well 20:13:19 <orudge> that's not so bad, then. 20:13:23 <Bjarni> and the radioactive elements glow in the dark :D 20:13:29 <dih> hello orudge 20:13:32 <orudge> if you were to go around wearing a shirt saying "orudge", it'd be a little bit disturbing 20:13:34 <orudge> Hello dih 20:13:49 <Bjarni> it was actually a present but I might have bought it myself if I had seen it in a shop 20:14:42 <Bjarni> "put orudge in the Oven" <-- now that would be disturbing to put on a shirt 20:14:55 <dih> hehe 20:15:02 <Bjarni> basically that's why I don't have a shirt like that 20:15:05 <dih> what is black and knocks on the glas from the inside 20:15:10 <orudge> a dead baby? 20:15:11 <dih> baby in a microwave 20:15:12 <orudge> in an oven? 20:15:13 <orudge> ah 20:15:14 <Bjarni> Sacro? 20:15:18 <orudge> somebody actually did that not so long ago 20:15:19 <Sacro> Bjarnium? 20:15:20 <dih> another one :-D 20:15:23 <orudge> they were sentenced recently 20:15:30 <dih> what is green and turns red when you press a button? 20:15:41 <orudge> a baby covered in green paint in a blender? 20:15:42 <Bjarni> the panic button 20:15:46 <Belugas> [16:08] <+glx> canadian french is weird ;) <-- buwhahahah!!!1 20:15:57 <dih> frog in a blender 20:16:10 <dih> and what is green, and stays green when you press a button? 20:16:11 <Belugas> french canadian is better than french from france :D 20:16:25 <orudge> pfft 20:16:26 <Belugas> dih, a rotten clitoris? 20:16:29 <dih> frog in a blender running for it's life :-P 20:16:33 <orudge> Canadian French is vaguely weird 20:16:35 <glx> it's closer to the "original" 20:16:38 <orudge> from the little of it I heard when in Toronto 20:16:46 <dih> Belugas: that is way out 20:16:49 <dih> nasty 20:16:51 <orudge> (which was a fair bit more than I expected to hear, I must admit) 20:16:52 <dih> yuck 20:16:52 <Belugas> toronto??? french???? 20:17:07 <orudge> Belugas: indeed 20:17:08 <dih> my inocent mind has been ... yuck 20:17:18 <Belugas> mmh.. 20:17:20 <Bjarni> French is the Gaul guys trying to speak Latin and it didn't go well 20:17:20 <glx> they still use some 17th century words 20:17:23 <ln> Belugas: maybe it was a tourist from france. 20:17:30 <Bjarni> lol 20:17:34 <dih> Belugas: what should your kid think of you ^^ 20:17:56 <Bjarni> "bad daddy" 20:18:10 <dih> yeah 20:18:13 <dih> you bad daddy 20:18:15 <dih> baaaaad 20:18:18 * Belugas whistles innocently 20:18:21 <dih> lol 20:18:24 <dih> yeah right 20:18:27 <dih> innocent! ha 20:18:32 <Bjarni> but why is he a bad daddy? 20:18:35 <Belugas> glx, that is quite true :) 20:18:48 <dih> [22:16] <Belugas> dih, a rotten clitoris? <-- that's why ^^ 20:18:56 <Bjarni> oh 20:18:58 <Bjarni> right 20:19:01 <Bjarni> I missed that one 20:19:09 <Bjarni> now Belugas is bad and rotten 20:19:10 <Belugas> and we do not have included as much english words as you do. although i do not know if it's good or bad... 20:19:13 <Bjarni> :P 20:20:09 <Bjarni> including English words in a language that's not related to English is likely a bad thing 20:20:14 <glx> Belugas: worse you adapt english expressions in french 20:20:25 <Sacro> NAME ME EUROPEAN COUNTRIES >< 20:20:29 <Belugas> no, it's call evolution, Bjarni 20:20:34 <Belugas> true we do, glx 20:20:38 <Bjarni> Sacro: England 20:20:39 <Sacro> http://www.sporcle.com/games/europe.php 6 mins left, only got 29/46 20:20:47 <Sacro> Bjarni: pfft, got tht 20:21:04 <Sacro> wtf is the big one between latvia and ukraine 20:21:11 <Belugas> glx: but i have to admit, some are absolutely stupid. like transforming CD to cédérom 20:21:18 <ln> Sacro: russia 20:21:19 <Belugas> that is yurk 20:21:27 <Sacro> ln: i have russia 20:21:30 <Sacro> and tis not european >< 20:21:36 <ln> Sacro: belarus then 20:21:53 <Sacro> ah ys, Belugas 20:22:31 <Sacro> right then, to the left of that 20:22:33 <Maedhros> did you just try to tab-complete Belarus? :p 20:22:38 <Sacro> Maedhros: yes :) 20:22:43 <Sacro> it worked with Rubidium :p 20:22:46 <Maedhros> hehe 20:22:47 <Belugas> lol 20:22:56 <Sacro> Belugas: you are not quite a country :( 20:23:04 <Belugas> nope... 20:23:18 <Belugas> although my colleagures would say i have an ego as big :S 20:24:01 <Sacro> wtf is that little bit between belgium france and germany 20:24:07 <Sacro> i don't recall there been a country there 20:24:12 <Belugas> a line? 20:24:28 <Maedhros> Luxembourg? 20:24:35 <Sacro> yes! 20:24:35 <Maedhros> (probably not spelt right...) 20:24:47 <dih> cédérom <--- not an english word :-D 20:24:51 <Sacro> right, i can't recall any of the former yugoslavian ones 20:24:56 * dih points towards the topic ^^ 20:25:14 <Sacro> dih: was utf-8 20:25:26 <glx> Maedhros: looks correct 20:25:39 <Sacro> pffft 20:25:46 <Sacro> it won't acccept yugoslavia 20:25:48 <dih> glx fancies Maedhros 20:25:51 <dih> ^^ 20:25:51 <Sacro> well that's what my globe says is there 20:25:59 <dih> oh 20:26:06 <dih> i read 'great' - not 'correct' 20:27:17 *** phin [~mcgee@c-68-41-156-159.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:27:28 <Belugas> dih, of course it's not an english word. That was how our "brillant" Ministry of French Sanity decided that CDROM should we written. By using phonetic writing. Which is an insanity, in my view 20:27:46 <dih> :-P 20:27:53 <dih> talking of phonetics 20:28:12 <Belugas> the only good stuff they come up with is the "Courriel" word. For EMail. Courrier Electronique -> courriel. Nice one 20:28:17 <Ammler> is the the binary openttd the only one which is plattform dependend, so if you like to have a cross plattform portable bin, you need just openttd.exe and openttd? 20:28:18 <dih> [daiâhi: drÉl] 20:28:22 <dih> :-) 20:28:39 <Diadem> 36/46 countries and only 5 min left 20:28:40 <Diadem> damn 20:28:41 <Belugas> Ammler, don't get it... 20:28:42 <dih> Ammler: that is described in the readme 20:28:54 <glx> Belugas: or clavardage for chat 20:29:01 <Belugas> true 20:29:07 <Belugas> forgot that one :) 20:29:16 <glx> I like this word 20:29:27 <Belugas> but "butineur" for browser was a real laught 20:29:40 <glx> "navigateur" here 20:29:47 <Belugas> better :) 20:29:53 <Belugas> by far 20:31:18 <dih> and Ammler: yes - you only need the different executables 20:31:38 <Ammler> no problem to rename them? 20:31:51 <Bjarni> damn 20:31:53 <Bjarni> out of time 20:31:59 <Bjarni> You got 41 out of 46 European countries. <-- didn't finish :( 20:32:53 <Bjarni> my biggest problem was spelling all the names in English 20:34:16 <Bjarni> in fact I missed Luxenbourg (or however you spell it) because I couldn't figure out how to spell it :( 20:34:28 <dih> Ammler: nope 20:34:28 <Sacro> Luxembourg 20:34:35 <Bjarni> ... 20:34:36 <Bjarni> damn 20:34:53 <dih> Bjarni: i am dissapointed 20:35:02 <dih> i write such a readme and nobody reads it :-( 20:35:12 <Bjarni> I know 20:35:36 <Bjarni> it should be named "read me and go to jail" and a whole bunch of people from the internet will read it 20:36:35 <Bjarni> hey 20:36:38 <Bjarni> this is an insult 20:36:43 <Bjarni> 15% miss Denmark 20:36:58 <Bjarni> only 13,5% miss Iceland 20:37:05 <Bjarni> like Iceland is more important or something 20:37:25 <Prof_Frink> People remember the supermarket 20:38:09 <Bjarni> Herzegovina <-- this is a name I got right in the like 5th attempt :s 20:38:40 <Bjarni> almost 60% miss that one.... the question is how many knows it but can't spell it :P 20:39:18 <Bjarni> 1,7% miss France 20:39:41 <Bjarni> nobody should miss the big countries like France, Germany and England 20:39:44 <Bjarni> oh well 20:39:55 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@021-010-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:51 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:30 <Sacro> Bjarni: i know it, but couldn't spell it 20:44:44 <Sacro> i started with iceland, did the top 20:44:51 <Sacro> and then started at portugal and went right 20:45:42 <Wolf01> 'night 20:45:44 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-237-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:44 <SmatZ> hmm yeah "Bosna i Hercegovina" is hard to spell in English... 20:45:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host74-95-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> You got 44 of 46 European countries 20:46:50 <Digitalfox> Sacro say otorrinologista 20:46:58 <bowman> I got 45 :) 20:47:20 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> i couldn't in any way remember the country that monte carlo is in... 20:47:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> and i missed albania 20:48:00 <bowman> you got san marino? :P 20:48:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes 20:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> of course 20:48:10 <Sacro> yeah 20:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's easy ;) 20:48:17 <SmatZ> I got 20:48:19 <Sacro> andorra, san marino, monaco, vatican 20:48:22 <SmatZ> but I can't spell Vatikan :-x 20:48:38 <SmatZ> ahhh 'c' , thanks :-D 20:48:39 <bowman> yeah got all those except san marino hehe 20:48:41 <Prof_Frink> SmatZ: "Popetown" 20:48:51 <SmatZ> :-D 20:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> i had to google for the german names, click on the wikipedia link, and there click on the "english" link to find out how to spell some countries 20:49:12 <SmatZ> You got 43 out of 46 European countries. :-x 20:50:06 <SmatZ> but I cheated a bit with translations :-x 20:50:06 <Patrick`> periodic table = win 20:50:34 <Patrick`> je suis une chemiste 20:50:43 <Patrick`> it's borked :( 20:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'll suck at that 20:50:56 <glx> I got only 36/46 20:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> half the names are completely different than in german 20:51:09 <SmatZ> Can't connect to database 20:51:13 <SmatZ> it's broken 20:51:14 <Patrick`> yeah 20:51:18 <Patrick`> did someone slashdot it? 20:51:18 <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: I got 116/118 on the periodic table 20:51:21 <SmatZ> we broke it 20:51:25 <Prof_Frink> Patrick`: hammer refresh. 20:51:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> like what is the translation of "Zinn", or "Wolfram" 20:51:40 <glx> missed all the small ones (monaco, andorre, vatican city,...) 20:52:03 <SmatZ> liechtens... very hard to spell in English :-x 20:52:11 <SmatZ> also Bosnia i Herzegovina 20:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> Liechtenstein... it's always written like this... 20:52:29 <glx> I got liechtenstein right 20:52:48 *** dih is now known as anhedral 20:52:53 <SmatZ> or Lithuania... 20:53:02 <glx> but couldn't spell netherlands 20:53:28 <SmatZ> yeah, I cheated to find that 's' in google 20:53:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's always plural 20:54:03 <glx> les pays-bas 20:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf is the english name of Kalium (K)? 20:54:18 <glx> potassium 20:54:21 <henkie> Lord Kalium? 20:54:27 <SmatZ> :-D 20:54:32 <Sacro> http://www.sporcle.com/games/startrek.php <- new challenge 20:55:04 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: alanblanchflower.co.uk/stuff 20:55:14 <Prof_Frink> You will find a very useful file. 20:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> this game sucks 20:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm at 13/118 after 4 minutes 20:56:46 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Grab the file. It will help. 20:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> what is Bor (B) ? 20:57:10 <Maedhros> Boron 20:57:22 <Sacro> boring 20:57:34 * Maedhros has a periodic table on the wall above his desk ;) 20:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> wtf? it doesn't accept Aluminium 20:57:58 *** Gekz [~brendan@121.218.49.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:00 <Sacro> Maedhros: cheat 20:58:08 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: American 20:58:26 * SmatZ should watch StarTrek once again 20:58:26 <Prof_Frink> Similarly, they don't accept S 20:58:40 *** Rikke_Platino [~chatzilla@62.235.164.176] has joined #openttd 20:58:42 *** Rikke_Platino is now known as Rikke 20:58:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, the problem is how to figure out which letter to randomly leave out :p 20:58:52 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: maybe double ll ? 20:58:56 <bowman> several :) 20:59:54 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:09 *** Rikke [~chatzilla@62.235.164.176] has quit [] 21:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> SmatZ: no, they leave out the i in -ium 21:00:17 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 21:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> 20/118 21:01:23 <Sacro> that's cos we added it 21:01:26 <SmatZ> it doesn't accept Unununium :) 21:03:06 <Patrick`> got the periodic table 21:03:18 <Sacro> what have i started... 21:03:33 <Patrick`> all of it 21:03:39 <Patrick`> they cut and run after darmstadt's element 21:03:48 <Patrick`> the higher-ups get named after scientist 21:03:54 <Patrick`> like bohrium or seaborgium 21:08:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> 28/118 final result 21:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> this translation thing is really a problem 21:11:48 *** hjalte [~hjalte@port201.ds1-gjp.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 21:12:38 <Patrick`> I hate games like thise, they waste my time 21:13:27 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B7882A.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:31 *** MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 21:14:37 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:10 *** orudge` [orudge@pc.lan.owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 21:15:13 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge`] by ChanServ 21:15:18 *** orudge` [orudge@pc.lan.owenrudge.net] has quit [] 21:15:28 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B65DB3.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 21:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't even know half the presidents 21:18:15 <Sacro> i wish we could half the president 21:18:31 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F57CEA.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a different question ;) 21:18:43 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499FFAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 21:20:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> You got 13 out of 43 Presidents. 21:21:58 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:11 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 21:23:36 * Bjarni closed his browser 21:23:42 <Bjarni> that thing takes too much time :( 21:24:06 <Bjarni> and I missed 2 US states (couldn't spell Mass. and missed Maryland) 21:24:06 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:34 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:20 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> bah... spanish numbers are difficult... i always mix them with french 21:38:39 <ln> uno dos tres quatro cinque seis siete otto nueve dieci? 21:38:51 <ln> (how many of those are french or italian?) 21:38:59 <Patrick`> uno dos tres quatro cinque cinque seis 21:39:01 <Patrick`> damn you song 21:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't accept quatro for example 21:39:12 <Patrick`> how many of those are mexican instead of spanish 21:40:34 *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.105.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> 22 of 33 21:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> i couldn't figure out 17-19 and 30-90 21:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> 16-19 21:45:19 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B65DB3.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12523 /branches/0.6/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp ottdres.rc.in): [0.6] -Backport from trunk (r12486): wrong copy right data in Windows binaries. 21:54:46 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-149-238.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:55:17 *** Maedhros [~jc@host86-136-232-74.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:31 <Diadem> Is multiplayer fun? 21:57:38 <Patrick`> yes. 21:57:38 <Diadem> Doesn't it go awefully fast without pause? 21:57:45 <SmatZ> yes, no 21:57:47 <Patrick`> nope. 21:57:56 <Sacro> yes 21:57:59 <Diadem> I'm used to pausing all the time. Whenever I think, but even while building 21:58:00 <Sacro> not really 21:58:19 <Diadem> How long does 1 game last? 21:58:39 <Sacro> |<-------- this long --------->| 21:58:41 <Sacro> (not to scale) 21:58:57 <Diadem> That's a measure of length, not time 21:59:02 <Diadem> are we assuming c=1 or something? 21:59:03 <Sacro> so is a parsec 21:59:14 <Sacro> but i can still do the kessel run in 5 21:59:19 <Sacro> under 5 even 21:59:39 <Rubidium> Diadem: could be more than a fortnight 21:59:56 <Rubidium> but usually it's less 22:00:01 <Diadem> Hmm 22:00:06 <Diadem> doesn't time always run at the same speed? 22:00:28 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-135-128.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:00:34 <Sacro> nope, it depends on how fast you are moving 22:00:42 <Sacro> time slows down as you approach the speed of light 22:00:52 <Diadem> Sacro: That's nothing. A photon does it in 0... In his own timeframe, ofc 22:00:52 <Rubidium> it just depends on how often people are playing and whether the game gets restarted at a specific point in time 22:00:56 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 22:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm 3 countries short in south america 22:01:15 <Sacro> Rubidium: or a non specific point in time 22:01:17 <Diadem> But how many OTTD years are there in a real-life hour? 22:01:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: Surinam? 22:01:31 <Sacro> cobalt? 22:01:42 <Sacro> Rubidium? 22:01:44 <Sacro> oh no 22:01:49 <Sacro> that's the pereodic table 22:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> ha ha ;) 22:02:05 <Diadem> Better than 3 countries short in North-America ) 22:02:21 <Rubidium> Diadem: a tick is 30 ms, there are 74 ticks in a day -> rest is math 22:02:25 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-177-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:02:42 <Diadem> Rubidium: So 2220ms for a day. That sounds about right I guess. 22:02:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> a day is roughly 2 seconds 22:03:11 <Diadem> So one year is about 880 seconds 22:03:16 <Diadem> sorry 810 22:03:39 <Diadem> So 4.44 years in an hour 22:03:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> Diadem: they have all the carribean islands in north america 22:04:21 <Diadem> Eddi|zuHause2: That's not North America imho. North America is Mexico + USA + Canada 22:04:35 <Sacro> http://www.simsig.co.uk/discus/messages/12/TRE_advert__2_-10427.pdf <- i want that 22:09:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12524 /branches/0.6/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [0.6] -Update: some documentation. 22:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> only 5 out of 12 greek gods, because i can't spell again 22:13:57 *** nzvip [~svip@192.38.109.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:26 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 22:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not significantly better with the roman gods... 22:21:26 *** Mirrakor [~linuser@p57B2C886.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:49 *** hjalte [~hjalte@port201.ds1-gjp.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:11 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:29:19 *** anhedral is now known as dih 22:31:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12525 /tags/0.6.0/ (11 files in 4 dirs): -Release: the April Fools' edition of OpenTTD. 22:31:54 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:01 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 22:34:31 <Patrick`> :P 22:34:33 <Patrick`> that's just mean 22:36:10 <SmatZ> :) 22:37:42 <Prof_Frink> And half an hour early 22:38:01 <Patrick`> in solviet russia, april fools you! 22:38:26 * Sacro builds 22:38:40 <Sacro> Rubidium: can't it have 0.7.0 ;) 22:39:13 <Sacro> or is that the actual release :o 22:39:56 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: I'm not sure. 22:40:07 <Prof_Frink> It *looks* like an actual release. 22:40:19 <Prof_Frink> But, it is labelled as April Fools 22:40:21 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: yes, i[m quite convinced too 22:40:25 <Sacro> looking at the last commits 22:40:30 <Sacro> copywrite 22:40:35 <Prof_Frink> COPYRIGHT 22:40:37 <Sacro> documentation 22:40:44 <Sacro> hmmm 22:40:47 <Prof_Frink> NOT COPYWRITE 22:40:48 <dih> clean work there 22:40:48 * Sacro scratches his head 22:40:57 <Sacro> shiny version number 22:41:02 * dih scratches sacro's head too 22:41:05 <Sacro> tis all looking go 22:41:09 <Sacro> dih: i'd get yourself checked 22:41:14 <dih> ^^ 22:41:41 <Prof_Frink> Five! Four! Three! Two! One! OpenTTDs Are Go! 22:41:57 <Sacro> Rubidium: don['t announce it thoguh 22:42:01 <Sacro> i wanna start a server up 22:42:03 <Sacro> get the forum talking 22:42:05 <Sacro> :p 22:42:08 * Sacro = git 22:42:27 * Prof_Frink = bzr 22:42:36 <Sacro> or at least don't post the report until 00:00 GMT 22:42:43 <Sacro> cos then nobody will belive you anyway 22:44:11 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: That's not for an hour and a bit yet 22:47:43 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-177-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 22:50:17 * dih is confuddled 22:50:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12526 /tags/0.6.0/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix: determining the version failed on Windows. 22:55:20 <SmatZ> people here who use Fedora... all my admire goes for you! 22:56:22 <Sacro> oh? 22:58:10 <SmatZ> I am having hard times with it :-x 22:58:24 *** dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Leaving] 22:58:29 *** dih [~dih@members.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:58:35 <Sacro> hehe 22:58:38 <Prof_Frink> < Sacro> Use Arch. 22:58:38 <Sacro> SmatZ: Arch! 22:58:46 <dih> debian 22:58:50 <dih> gentoo 22:59:21 <SmatZ> I have to use Fedora because we use it in school and I want to have as little compatibility problems as possible :) 22:59:33 <Sacro> use CentOS then 22:59:42 <Sacro> all the power of RHEL 22:59:47 <Sacro> without being a testbed for new stuff 23:00:11 <dih> yes 23:00:14 <SmatZ> :) 23:00:15 <dih> centos is pretty good 23:00:22 * SmatZ uses Gentoo 23:01:06 <peter1138> CentOS still has the drawback of being RPM based. 23:01:07 * SmatZ googled for CentOS 23:02:25 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-177-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:31 <Sacro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_tree 23:05:21 <Prof_Frink> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Serriffe 23:05:30 <Sacro> hehe 23:06:07 <dih> good night 23:06:33 *** dih is now known as anhedral 23:08:02 *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.106.89] has joined #openttd 23:09:06 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-187-188.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 23:12:30 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41673.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:00 <Diadem> Which directory should I play newgrf files? 23:16:04 <Diadem> I can't browse it seems 23:16:39 <mrfrenzy> data 23:16:46 <Ammler> Diadem: mydocs/.openttd/data/ 23:16:56 <glx> Ammler: wrong 23:17:03 <Ammler> :-) 23:17:06 <Ammler> its a mix 23:17:07 <Diadem> Ah ok 23:17:08 <Diadem> got it 23:17:19 <Diadem> thanks 23:18:09 <Ammler> how is it called in windows? OpenTTD ? 23:20:17 <Diadem> for me? D:/Games/OpenTTD/data :) 23:20:52 <glx> better put them in mydocs\openttd\data 23:21:12 <Sacro> hehe 23:21:15 <Sacro> D:/ 23:21:18 <Sacro> D:> 23:21:22 <glx> that way you can have multiple openttd versions, but only one dir for grfs 23:23:13 <Diadem> Hmmm 23:23:21 <Diadem> mydocs? where do I find that? :) 23:23:55 <Ammler> Diadem: depense on your local settings 23:24:06 <glx> c:\documents and settings\<username>\... 23:24:09 <Diadem> ah got it 23:24:17 <Diadem> You meant *that* mydocs 23:24:23 <Diadem> Didn't know Ottd put stuff there 23:24:29 <Diadem> annoying.. I hate programs who spam my c-drive 23:24:39 <glx> mydocs are on d: 23:24:46 <Ammler> yep, OTTD is cool 23:27:04 <Ammler> it you think grf is spam, you shouldn't install them 23:28:03 <peter1138> Unsolicitied commercial email from ottd! 23:29:41 <Diadem> Ammler: I didn't mean that 23:29:43 * Sacro solicits peter1138 23:30:01 <Diadem> Call me old-fashioned, but I'm off the opinion that programs and games should keep track of their settings and savegames etc in their own directory 23:30:06 <Diadem> not at some other random place on your hard-drive 23:30:32 <peter1138> acceptable with dos, but modern OSes are multi-user 23:30:40 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-040-014.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:52 <Diadem> Not mine 23:30:57 <Diadem> I have a "Touch my pc and die" policy 23:31:00 <Sacro> ahh a windows user 23:31:16 <peter1138> quite 23:31:18 <SmatZ> ^_^ 23:31:33 * Sacro likes his ~/.openttd{,-svn,-beta} folders 23:31:40 <peter1138> i have a 'touch my pc and all my stuff is locked away from you' policy 23:31:54 <peter1138> well, assuming no boot cds are used... 23:31:57 <Sacro> i have a 'touch my pc and get infected' policy 23:32:03 <peter1138> with aids 23:32:08 <Prof_Frink> Heh, my stuff is mainly ~/src/openttd/* 23:32:10 <Sacro> or worse 23:32:15 <Prof_Frink> bad aids? 23:32:18 <Sacro> bloody hell 23:32:22 <Sacro> worse still 23:32:29 <Sacro> jdk update >< 23:33:04 <peter1138> haha 23:33:20 <Sacro> oh god 23:33:22 <Sacro> hang on 23:33:25 <Sacro> why do i have qt 23:33:28 <Sacro> and skype staticqt 23:34:49 <SmatZ> because skype won't run without staticqt on amd64 23:35:04 <Sacro> i don't x86_64 23:35:06 <Sacro> i use i686 23:35:17 <Sacro> i don't know anyone with a 64 bit phone number 23:35:22 <SmatZ> :) 23:36:36 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:11 <Ammler> peter1138: have you crypted home? 23:37:33 <Ammler> oh, no boot cd 23:38:11 <Diadem> peter1138: oh my really private stuff is locked away behind a 40-word PGP password :) 23:38:36 <Diadem> still though... Don't touch my pc... My settings and programs and stuff aren't passworded ;) 23:39:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1EAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:29 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:47:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:49:14 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-187-188.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:53:35 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-187-188.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 23:55:00 <Diadem> wow how annoying 23:55:06 <Diadem> those newgrf trees don't go invisible 23:56:09 <Ammler> why do you include tree grf and like to have them invisible? 23:56:21 <Diadem> I didn't, the game did 23:56:30 <Ammler> but you can set a patch setting 23:56:31 <Diadem> (multiplayer game) 23:56:37 <peter1138> there's no reason for them no to 23:56:39 <peter1138> +t 23:56:57 <Diadem> I have the patch setting on 23:57:00 <Diadem> but trees are still visible 23:57:10 <Diadem> (in the #openttdcoop game) 23:57:27 <peter1138> transparent or just normal? 23:58:46 <Diadem> normal 23:59:52 <peter1138> well then