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00:00:07 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:23 *** Zorn [zorn@e177228062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:02:22 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 00:04:33 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:09:50 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.104.43] has joined #openttd 00:10:20 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:14:21 <ln-> end of discussion 00:16:58 *** ln- is now known as ln 00:25:49 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:33:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B772A1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:08 *** Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:08 *** [demi]Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7591C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:53:51 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:11 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-139-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 01:27:34 *** nicfer [~Administr@168.226.104.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:50 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AEE75.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 01:38:32 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:22 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:46:31 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has joined #openttd 02:03:43 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone 02:06:05 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: No power for a few hours...] 02:17:50 *** Metalcore [~evanseeds@r59h83.res.gatech.edu] has joined #openttd 02:18:23 <Metalcore> how reasonable would the option of "funding" a subsidy be? Perhaps by "hiring lobbyists"? 02:18:33 <Metalcore> obviously only for currently nonexistent routes 02:46:25 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:55:05 <roboboy> but then in SP you would be spending money to make money and you would either make a loss or make way more than it cost to build and fund it 03:03:39 <Metalcore> well, make it cost a lot and be uncertain 03:03:45 <Metalcore> like prospecting for primary industries 03:15:01 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:46:55 <roboboy> I have a station with a one tile gap between it and a competitors station and want to build an extra platform in that gap but if I ctrl build the station it builds as a new station 03:47:38 <roboboy> can I get it to be built as part of my existing station? 03:51:28 <roboboy> hello 04:08:58 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 04:12:30 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:59 *** letto [~letto@86.120.69.42] has quit [] 04:17:04 *** letto [~letto@86.120.69.42] has joined #openttd 04:27:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:28:04 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:10 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 04:30:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:30:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:15 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 04:30:15 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:30:15 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:34 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 04:30:35 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:30:35 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:43:16 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EF26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:51:13 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:02:35 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:04:13 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:21:00 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> apparently, there can only be one fix to mibbit... 06:23:40 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:24:54 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 06:24:54 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 06:24:54 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:25:01 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 06:25:01 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 06:25:01 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:25:43 <Rubidium> roboboy: use a proper client that doesn't need to reboot every mnute 06:26:58 <roboboy> it only needs fixing on exiting after hibbernation 06:27:00 <roboboy> fixing a problem with mibbit 06:27:00 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 06:27:00 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:27:18 <roboboy> I shall try other methods 06:27:49 *** Tim [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:28:08 <Tim> Good Morning everyone 06:30:03 <Tim> Well, seems like the devs fell asleep in front of their pcs :D 06:32:23 <roboboy> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39699 Does anyone like it. Its not meant to be a TTDPatch has it so OpenTTD must aswell. I actually think it would be useful 06:32:59 <Noldo> there is a patch for that 06:33:04 <roboboy> yeah 06:33:30 <Noldo> hmm 06:33:34 <Noldo> or there was 06:33:37 <Noldo> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=30960 06:33:47 <Noldo> that's the distant join part of it 06:35:15 <roboboy> yeah and I wish it would be done as I have a use for it now 06:39:55 *** Tim [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:43:10 <peter1138> Yeah, whatever happened to those patches... 06:43:23 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 06:51:42 <Noldo> is there FS task about it? 06:52:26 <Noldo> last updated version is 21.8. 06:54:12 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C635.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:55:54 *** welshdra-gone is now known as welshdragon 07:09:00 *** Tekky_ [~chatzilla@p5493E539.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:41 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493DB7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:42 *** Tekky_ is now known as Tekky 07:16:44 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:22:06 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 07:22:07 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 07:29:02 <letto> are there any station grfs that change when pasagers arrive ala industrial staion renewal ? 07:37:02 <Celestar> don't most station grfs do that? 07:37:41 <letto> dunno 07:40:51 <welshdragon> only the Michael Blunck ones, but let's not go there 07:41:00 <Celestar> ... 07:41:11 * Forked wanders in that general direction since he has no clue whats going on there 07:45:59 <roboboy> where can I find information on that subject welshdragon? TTDP graphics forum? 07:46:16 <welshdragon> i'm digging it up nopw 07:46:46 <roboboy> as I missed it while I was away from thouroughly reading the forums 07:47:26 <letto> yup, just tested and it works :) 07:47:32 <letto> thanks :) 07:49:08 <welshdragon> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=38749&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=michael+blunck - look at gis posts on the 2nd/3rd pages 07:49:28 <welshdragon> that's why brianetta no longer has them in his grf'S 07:49:40 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:55 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has joined #openttd 07:51:04 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064185.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:57:58 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:23 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 08:08:07 *** Fuco [dota.keys@147.251.51.162] has joined #openttd 08:13:10 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:13:11 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest969 08:13:11 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 08:15:06 <sulai> Hi there :) 08:15:27 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g229217168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:18:59 <peter1138> Well, that's a bugger. 08:19:10 <peter1138> I forgot about my ebay bid... The server went for £59 :( 08:19:35 *** Guest969 [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:21:00 <welshdragon> peter1138, you fool 08:23:10 *** `Fuco`AFK [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:23:10 *** Fuco [dota.keys@147.251.51.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:29 <peter1138> Dual Athlon MP 2800+, 4GB RAM... was not a bad box :o 08:23:41 <peter1138> Oh well, I'll keep looking. 08:24:34 *** `Fuco`AFK is now known as Fuco 08:25:14 <peter1138> 1U chassis go for that much :o 08:27:35 *** Metalcore is now known as sleep 08:27:41 *** sleep is now known as Metalcore 08:31:00 <sulai> peter1138: The station rating window is too big, since it has space for all cargo, even if there is only one shown. I could provide a patch which addapts the station rating part of the window, depending on how many ratings are shown there. It's a spin-off of my "remove rating/accept button" patch http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=99080 are you interested? 08:33:20 <sulai> Please don't misunderstand. I don't want to remove the rating/accpet button. I'd like to ask if there is some interest to resice the rating part in the original window. 08:33:34 <sulai> *resize ;) 08:35:38 *** Metalcore is now known as MetalSleep 08:46:36 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:48:22 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 08:48:50 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:53:00 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 09:14:36 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:46 *** Sacro|MB [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 09:17:19 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 09:17:19 <Nite_Owl> !logs 09:36:28 <Celestar> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/EW_60-16000-6100_Antriebe.jpg 09:36:31 <Celestar> nice switch (= 09:36:33 *** Morloth [~bram@ip503cbc92.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:41:42 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-162.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 09:42:42 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 09:45:53 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:48:15 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-115.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:51:13 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:51:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 09:53:43 <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: rules say RSS data can't be HTML :p 09:53:50 <TrueBrain> I will check if it is a flag somewhere to change that ;) 09:56:18 <Brianetta> http://blogs.vertigosoftware.com/photos/jatwood/images/2568/original.aspx 09:56:21 <Brianetta> Fractal Ted. 10:00:45 <peter1138> Grrr, I have a network printer that I can't remove :o 10:00:52 <peter1138> Brianetta! It's your fault! 10:01:06 <peter1138> You made me play OpenTTD on your server, so I forgot to bid on ebay :( 10:03:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14376 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_rail.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: AIRail.BuildSignal had a bug (Yexo) 10:03:48 <Celestar> hhehe 10:03:56 <Sacro|MB> http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/ninjagolf/ninjagolf-flashgame.php 10:04:29 <Brianetta> muahahah 10:04:33 <Brianetta> My plan matures 10:04:37 * Brianetta has the item 10:04:40 <peter1138> So now I have no £59 server :( 10:04:42 <Brianetta> *I* am the top bidder! 10:04:48 <peter1138> Which is most annoying. 10:11:13 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g229217168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:13 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g229217168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:13 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 10:12:30 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 10:12:31 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 10:15:03 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:18:49 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet509.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 10:19:30 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:20:41 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 10:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14377 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 10:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: AIVehicle functions to manipulate wagons (Yexo) 10:23:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: use ::GetVehicle()->type over GetVehicleType (a bit faster) 10:24:44 <Noldo> wagons \o/ 10:24:59 <FauxFaux> Uh oh, are we heading towards train support? 10:25:59 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:29:32 <Celestar> hm .. 10:29:38 <Celestar> Stuttgart - Aachen 3hours :o 10:30:40 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493E539.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 10:31:02 <Yexo> FauxFaux: not heading towards, train support is complete now (apart from a missing rail pathfinder in the library) 10:31:17 <Rubidium> Celestar: then you didn't walk 10:36:03 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 10:37:39 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:38:27 <Celestar> Rubidium: er no :) I'm just trying to decide how to get there (= 10:38:37 <Celestar> 3 hours is not realistically possible by car. 10:38:50 <Celestar> about 430 km. 10:41:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F615.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:46:37 <Rubidium> it's only 3 days and 15 hours walking 10:47:51 <Celestar> how did you estimate that? :P 10:48:58 <Rubidium> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=stuttgart&daddr=aachen&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&dirflg=w&sll=49.836295,7.694925&sspn=3.351703,3.290405&ie=UTF8&ll=49.813176,7.635498&spn=3.353421,3.290405&z=8 <- like so 10:49:54 <Celestar> er ok :P 10:50:11 <Celestar> it's 3.5-4.5 hours by car 10:50:25 <Forked> but by walking you take the shortcut ! 10:53:12 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:58 <Celestar> Rubidium: does that assume that you can walk 24 hours a day? 10:54:19 <Celestar> apparently 10:54:22 <Celestar> 5km/h average. 10:54:36 <Celestar> so when you walk 10 hours a day ... it's more like 9 days 10:54:45 <Celestar> hm. 10:55:21 <Celestar> the Railway Ticket is about 90 EUR. Considering you need at least one pair of shoes for walking over 400km, one can assume that walking is not much cheaper :P 10:55:22 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 10:57:02 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 11:00:29 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 11:03:03 *** kaplon [kaplon@kacicka.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:39 <sulai> wasn't there a documentation in wiki about how to create a new savegame version for a patch? I'm searching a while already, but I can't find it... 11:19:24 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 11:21:10 <sulai> oh just found it =) 11:22:16 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 11:25:24 <Brianetta> Celestar: I have a pair of walking boots that's done at least 400km. 11:28:59 <Celestar> Brianetta: well :P 11:30:12 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:48:28 <Celestar> Brianetta: but on in 3 hours 430km :P 11:52:41 <Brianetta> ? 11:57:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: you walking boots don't average 130km/h :P 11:59:25 <roboboy> if I unload cargo at a station that doesnt accept it and it later accepts it, do my vehicles get payed? no cargodest 11:59:32 <Brianetta> I never disputed that. I was disputing the costs. 11:59:49 <Celestar> Brianetta: well, it depends on the quality of the boots and the price I guess 11:59:50 <Brianetta> roboboy: You'd need to pick the cargo up and then drop it again 12:00:06 <Brianetta> Celestar: These boots cost about â¬50 12:00:08 <Celestar> Brianetta: btw. ticket prices is 75 EUR only .. 12:00:33 <Brianetta> Boots are extremely cost effective. Food and cooking fuel for the journey costs more. 12:00:41 <roboboy> so when a PBI industry stops accepting I dont get payed even though it gets used because I unloaded it 12:00:55 <Brianetta> A 3 hour journey, in general, doesn't carry a starvation risk. 12:01:13 <Brianetta> roboboy: Did you force it onto the station with unload? 12:01:15 <Sacro|MB> really? 12:01:20 <roboboy> yes 12:01:25 * Sacro|MB gets really hungry on 3 hour journeys :( 12:01:25 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:01:28 <Brianetta> In which case, check the platform. 12:01:32 <Brianetta> It'll still be there. 12:01:36 <Brianetta> Stil in transit. 12:01:40 <roboboy> ok 12:01:48 <roboboy> but it gets used 12:01:50 <Brianetta> no 12:01:52 <Sacro|MB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Train_simulation_video_games 12:01:54 <Sacro|MB> :D 12:02:03 <Celestar> Brianetta: well, if you consider food and shelter for a journey of 400km, walking is always the least cost effective I guess 12:02:24 <Brianetta> Celestar: Shelter's a capital cost, but yeah, for a one-off, take a train. 12:03:48 <Brianetta> Simutrans would be my game of choice if it didn't have dumbed down track. 12:04:13 <roboboy> but it gets used when the industry starts to accept the goods 12:04:22 <roboboy> gnight soon 12:04:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: how good is simutrans' destination system? 12:04:55 <Brianetta> Celestar: Comprehensive. 12:05:03 <Brianetta> It's really hard to stay afloat 12:05:15 <Celestar> any idea I might want to implement? 12:05:27 <Brianetta> Well, here's how it works 12:05:38 <Brianetta> Passengers are generated by buildings of various sorts 12:05:45 <Brianetta> Each passenger is created wanting to go somewhere 12:05:50 <Brianetta> They will change up to 20 times to get there 12:06:05 <Brianetta> but they won't even show up at a station if they can't get where they're going 12:06:27 <Brianetta> Any potential destination (town, stadium, industry) shows how many people want to reach it 12:06:48 <Brianetta> but individual point-to-point potential journeys are numerous and not often duplicated 12:06:57 <Brianetta> You really, really can't survive if you don't integrate 12:07:20 <Brianetta> Most passengers want to go shorter distances 12:07:27 <Celestar> yeah 12:07:32 <Brianetta> Relatively few want to go to Distantville Stadium 12:07:44 <Brianetta> but Nearsville Factory needs its local workers 12:07:51 <Brianetta> so you'd run a bus there 12:07:53 <Celestar> I'm working on something like that. 12:08:04 <Celestar> but then I'd need industries that accept passengers 12:08:11 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:08:12 <Brianetta> The workers would get to your bus by connecting services 12:08:18 <Brianetta> You have them 12:08:31 <Brianetta> Farms take 1/4, factories 3/4 12:08:45 <Brianetta> A newgrf can tweak them 12:09:34 <Brianetta> but since Simutrans has brain-dead track layouts, I don't play 12:09:43 <Brianetta> Take a single line with passing loop 12:10:03 * Celestar wants IS first intergrated with cargodest :D 12:10:20 <Brianetta> Any train can run around from one side to the other, within the loop, because all junctions on a tile are connected. 12:10:31 <Brianetta> IS? 12:11:28 <Vikthor> infrastructure sharing 12:11:32 <Brianetta> ah 12:11:37 <Brianetta> IS would be cool 12:11:48 <Ammler> Celestar: first drafts of ECS had also workers as cargo type 12:11:53 <Brianetta> but my desire for it isn't linked to my desire for any other features 12:12:07 * peter1138 wants ships. 12:12:14 <Ammler> then they changed it to vehicels 12:12:23 <Brianetta> peter1138: Ever played Ports of Call? 12:12:37 <Brianetta> http://www.portsofcall.de/ 12:13:27 <Celestar> Brianetta: what other features do you desire except non-magic brakes? 12:13:41 <peter1138> No. 12:13:45 <peter1138> I mean Pikka's ships ;) 12:14:02 <Brianetta> Pikka has ships? 12:14:05 * Brianetta goes mental 12:14:33 <Brianetta> Celestar: Multiple signal block reservations per train, and my orders grouping suggestion 12:14:41 <Celestar> orders grouping? 12:14:48 <Brianetta> So I can designate a train's order as express, and it reserves further 12:14:53 <Brianetta> Orders grouping 12:15:13 <Celestar> I see 12:15:15 <Brianetta> ttp://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=728175#p728175 12:15:15 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:15:38 <Brianetta> You might want to stick an h in front of that URL 12:15:48 <Celestar> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=728175#p728175 <= like so? :P 12:16:04 <Brianetta> For orders grouping, exactly like so 12:16:11 <Brianetta> That would make the game playable by my wife (: 12:16:37 <Brianetta> Bear in mind that there's heavy resistance form the "but I use groups for silly things" crowd 12:17:52 <Celestar> what "silly things" are those? 12:18:07 <Celestar> I usually group vehicles by kind-of-lines 12:18:31 <Celestar> Yeah Baby 12:18:33 <Celestar> ors found while checking this document as XHTML 1.0 Transitional! 12:18:34 <Celestar> Result: 273 Errors, 180 warning(s) 12:21:31 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c114-76-63-58.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:22:36 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 12:23:10 <sulai> I just started a wiki article about how to do a savegame bump. But I am not very experienced and just had a look at the code. Does somebody know about how this works? Can he give a quick overview on http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Patches/CreateSavegame ? 12:27:07 <Vikthor> sulai: You should probably look here http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Patches/AddPatchOption 12:27:33 <sulai> this is only about how to add a patch variable to a savegame 12:35:18 <peter1138> Brianetta, only mere plans, unfortunately, and that was a long time ago :o 12:38:40 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:39:02 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:39:15 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 12:39:19 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:40:51 <Brianetta> peter1138: You're going to get my therapist bill 12:46:07 <SpComb> Celestar: how many unique errors? 12:52:12 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:52:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:54:44 *** `Fuco`AFK [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:56:09 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 12:56:19 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:48 <Celestar> SpComb: haven't analysed 12:56:53 <Celestar> SpComb: try yourself :P 12:57:02 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 13:16:13 *** Jezral [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd 13:19:11 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.186.132.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:43 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:25:56 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:22 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 13:27:21 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 13:28:13 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad456aa.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:47 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:30:12 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c114-76-63-58.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:32:46 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:46 *** welshdragon2 [~vista@83.100.249.30] has joined #openttd 13:33:20 *** welshdragon2 is now known as welshdragon 13:33:47 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] 13:34:01 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:10 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:44:42 *** `Fuco`AFK [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:04 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:59:13 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:34 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37EF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:14:20 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DCA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:14:24 <fjb> Hello 14:18:41 <Brianetta> Hello 14:21:29 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:22:53 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:23:13 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:54 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5ED06875.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:23:58 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 14:25:59 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 14:29:31 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:37:17 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:30 *** welshdragon is now known as hulldrgaon 14:37:41 *** hulldrgaon is now known as hulldragon 14:39:31 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater43.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 14:50:18 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater43.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:52:55 <jpm> SmatZ: Thanks for fixing FS#2316(Airport deleting) so quickly! 14:53:04 *** hulldragon is now known as welshdragon 14:56:27 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:48 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has joined #openttd 15:02:30 <SmatZ> jpm: you are welcome :) 15:03:12 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:15 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0FD36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:22 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0FD36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 15:16:58 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577B9D10.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:19:23 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37EF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:30 *** jack [~jack@byn202.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:22:51 <jack> hello 15:23:04 <sulai> hi jack 15:23:25 <jack> I have one question connected with Open TTD 15:23:33 <hylje> just ask 15:23:41 <sulai> you're at the right place =) 15:24:28 <jack> I have about 100 road vehicle and now all of them are getting old, is any way to replace them quickly? 15:24:30 <ln> sulai: you criminal 15:24:49 <sulai> In? 15:25:00 <ln> no, ln 15:25:10 <sulai> jack go to the patch settings, turn "auto renew" on 15:25:30 <ln> sulai: you were going to hijack something. 15:25:42 <sulai> In? 15:25:44 <jack> I have turned this option 15:25:50 <ln> In?? 15:25:58 <sulai> do you habe enough money? 15:26:13 <jack> yes, more than needed 15:26:31 <sulai> are they going to depot regulary? 15:27:09 <jack> they go to depot, when they need 15:27:09 <sulai> try "send for servicing" order in the vehicle list 15:27:25 <sulai> In: what are you talking about? 15:27:44 <ln> sulai: who is this "In" you keep mentioning? 15:28:07 <sulai> Oh, sorry I misspelled you 15:28:14 <ln> you clearly said something about hijacking: 15:28:14 <ln> 18:23 < sulai> hi jack 15:28:27 <sulai> hehe good one ^^^ 15:28:51 <Doorslammer> Surprise Badger and so on and so on 15:29:59 *** jack [~jack@byn202.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 15:35:45 *** Sacro|MB is now known as Sacro 15:43:30 *** teggiiiii [~asd@ti0056a340-dhcp0311.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 15:44:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff23b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:54:48 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:06 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:11:47 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:18:16 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-115.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 16:20:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:28:49 *** teggiiiii [~asd@ti0056a340-dhcp0311.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:02 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:03 *** Euro_swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:33:30 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:46 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:38:11 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:39:38 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:37 *** daspork [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #openttd [Leaving] 16:47:52 *** daspork [~daspork@71-87-194-249.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #openttd 16:53:40 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:04:47 <peter1138> Note: Once you have set a variable's value, you cannot change or modify that value! 17:04:53 <peter1138> ^ Does not sound like a variable to me... 17:06:46 <glx> variable constant maybe :) 17:07:16 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 17:11:53 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:11:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:12:24 <Wolf01> hello 17:14:24 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:16:48 *** FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 17:16:50 *** Sacro_ [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:18:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:47 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:45 *** letto [~letto@86.120.69.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:44 *** Fuco [dota.keys@wireless-67.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:27:28 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:36 <TrueBrain> hi Wolf01 :) 17:39:57 <Wolf01> hi TrueBrain :) 17:40:34 <TrueBrain> how are you? :) 17:42:56 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:44:11 <Wolf01> I want to say "fine", but I think I'm not 17:44:58 * TrueBrain gives Wolf01 a cookie! 17:45:25 <Wolf01> thanks :D 17:45:33 <TrueBrain> feel better now? :) 17:45:42 <Wolf01> yes, a little more 17:45:48 <Wolf01> Yesterday I had a LOTR marathon 17:45:51 <Wolf01> :O 17:46:09 <TrueBrain> *cough* *puke* *cough* 17:46:22 <Wolf01> 11.5 continued hours of movie 17:46:38 <TrueBrain> sick :p 17:47:00 <Rubidium> been there, done that... and then the cinema we were in was closing for the last time 17:49:11 <Wolf01> next time might be a matrix marathon, but I need to buy the collector edition first, if it exists 17:50:08 <TrueBrain> hehe 17:50:10 <TrueBrain> crazy people 17:52:40 <Prof_Frink> Wolf01: Only one problem with a Matrix marathon 17:53:01 <Prof_Frink> There was only one film. Anyone saying otherwise will be shot. 17:55:40 <Wolf01> 12 hours of the same film, picture by picture, we'll try to spot every aspect of it 17:58:10 <Rubidium> Prof_Frink: isn't the Matrix a toy to keep us busy about not thinking that we are actually in the Matrix? 17:58:51 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Whoa. 18:03:11 <Wolf01> Another great movie I want to use for a marathon is star wars :O 18:03:29 <Wolf01> I need the collector edition too 18:04:11 <Prof_Frink> Wolf01: That has the advantage of getting much better half way through 18:04:18 <nckomodo> I did a jurassic park marathon on the way back home from virginia 18:04:32 <nckomodo> in that I watched the first video and then fell asleep 18:04:40 <Prof_Frink> Assuming you haven't smashed the TV at the sight of Jar Jar. 18:04:52 <nckomodo> the intent was there 18:04:58 <frosch123> Wolf01: you also need a hp marathon for the gfs while you are watching sw 18:06:11 <Wolf01> This week I'm trying to finish the Dune marathon... at least the first half, there are at most 100 pages left 18:06:33 <Wolf01> and then I'll start the other half 18:08:16 <Wolf01> I'm living for read books, watch entire movie series in a day and play OTTD 18:08:28 <Wolf01> what-a-life :| 18:08:41 <Wolf01> at least there's OTTD :D 18:09:30 <Wolf01> I think I'll become civil engineer when I'll grow 18:11:59 <Prof_Frink> Concrete merchant. 18:13:26 <Wolf01> doh, a wall removed both my front wheels 18:14:49 * Wolf01 writes on the little black book: try to don't go straight on bends 18:15:57 <TrueBrain> add to it: don't eat yellow snow 18:29:21 *** Afro_swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:23 *** Afro_swallow is now known as Swallow 18:32:00 *** Euro_swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:01 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g226207082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:35:37 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-139-123.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:43 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-147.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 18:39:28 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g229217168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:28 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:43:04 *** LordAzamath [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 18:46:45 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-147.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:53:39 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:59:10 *** thingwath [~thingwath@dhcp-58-112.eduroam.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 19:03:56 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7E7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:04:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:04:19 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37C93B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:24 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has joined #openttd 19:07:30 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:51 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-57.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 19:14:35 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-145-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:14:50 *** LordAzamath [~hailong@82.131.17.255.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 19:19:33 <TrueBrain> @mode +q *!*Yorick@* 19:19:33 *** mode/#openttd [+q *!*Yorick@*] by DorpsGek 19:19:50 <TrueBrain> maybe then no longer we get the same question over and over here on IRC, and also on the forum (even after answering in multiple ways) 19:21:12 <peter1138> Has he been annoying again? 19:21:24 <TrueBrain> yeah .. 19:21:39 <TrueBrain> keeps on asking about the flags of the website ... I got that question one too many times of him now .. 19:27:46 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 19:29:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14384 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Moving the first vehicle of a train elsewhere might require a new unitnumber for the remaining chain. 19:29:46 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c898.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:29:56 <Belugas> hehe.. and to think people were complaining about my bad temper ^_^ 19:30:01 * Belugas hugs TrueBrain 19:30:04 <Belugas> MY MASTER! 19:31:15 <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :) Nice to see you again :) 19:31:24 <TrueBrain> how was your weekend? :) 19:35:05 <Belugas> yuo do not want to know. two words : sick kiddo 19:35:28 <TrueBrain> aawwwhhhh 19:35:41 <Belugas> two more? wife panicking 19:35:43 * TrueBrain gives Belugas' kiddo a bit of happyness, so he gets well soon :) 19:35:51 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:46 *** thingwath [~thingwath@dhcp-58-112.eduroam.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:39:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:40:25 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 19:40:54 *** FR^2 [fr@oscar.frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by caffein depletion...] 19:42:08 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 19:43:04 <glx> Belugas: school is nice ;) 19:43:18 <Belugas> right on, glx :) 19:43:25 <Belugas> bring me the viruses! 19:44:38 <glx> which one did he get? 19:45:47 <Belugas> lokks like all of them, according to my wife :D 19:45:56 <Belugas> looks 19:46:12 <glx> mothers aren't a good info source for that 19:46:14 <Belugas> in my mind, it is a simple cold 19:46:25 <Belugas> nope :) 19:46:25 <TrueBrain> lol @ glx 19:46:49 <Belugas> at 4:00 in the mornign, she woke me up so i'd bring the kid at hospital. for an "otite" 19:47:16 <glx> I had some 19:47:19 <Belugas> the nurse almost laugh at me:"get him to bed wth some Tampra, it will be fine" 19:47:43 <Belugas> Quentin never had any, that is why my wife was panicking 19:47:45 <TrueBrain> poor Belugas :) 19:48:26 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:28 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:29 <glx> he was living in a bubble ;) 19:49:26 <Belugas> exactly :) 19:49:33 <Belugas> ow, it's the slap in the face 19:50:17 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 19:50:32 <Belugas> but it hurts when he cannot stop crying and saying that it hurts and that there's nothing yo can do :( 19:50:37 <Belugas> hard to be a parent 19:50:47 <glx> of course 19:51:29 <ln> except giving pain meds 19:54:06 <Belugas> but all in all, it was an horrible weekend 19:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14385 /branches/0.6/ (15 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed) 19:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk: 19:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Invalid v->u.air.targetairport could cause crashes at several places [FS#2300] (r14383, r14344, r14343) 19:57:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Moving the first vehicle of a train elsewhere might require a new unitnumber for the remaining chain which might not be available (r14384) 19:57:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Trams jumping when reversing on a single trambit (like caused during road construction reworks) or when (manually) reversing in a corner [FS#1852] (r14371) 19:57:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Multiheaded parts in free wagon chains weren't connected (could cause desyncs) (r14366, r14362) 19:57:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Win32] Some keypress combinations could be handled twice [FS#2206] (r14363) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14386 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-22 19:58:30 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 3 fixed by tucalipe (3) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 fixed by arnaullv (3) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 fixed by WhiteRabbit (2) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 1 fixed by kristjans (1) 19:58:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 fixed by glx (1) 19:59:08 <peter1138> Spree 20:00:18 <Belugas> script! 20:01:19 <FauxFaux> Wheeeee. 20:01:51 <TrueBrain> and why is FauxFaux so happy? 20:02:20 <FauxFaux> Stuff is happening! 20:02:49 <Belugas> false... things that were happening have suddenly be made visible 20:04:57 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:05:44 <Belugas> so whatshyouwhatshyou want? 20:10:58 *** ecke1 [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 20:10:58 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14387 /branches/0.6/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [0.6] -Backport from trunk: language updates. 20:13:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:15:16 * Belugas moves on to War Pigs 20:15:46 <Belugas> not related to those who want to see tanks been shipped from one corner of the map th the other :P 20:16:01 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:18:13 <peter1138> I 20:18:14 <peter1138> AM 20:18:15 <peter1138> IRON 20:18:16 <peter1138> MAN 20:18:30 <Belugas> has he lost his mind? 20:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> you notice that just now? :p 20:19:00 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause2, you do not know your classics ;) 20:19:04 <TrueBrain> Belugas: in fact, I think he is finding it back, bit by bit 20:19:07 *** FauxFaux [~faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: indeed i don't... at best i know german translation of classics... 20:20:04 <Belugas> very first line of Iron Man, from Black Sabbath : "Has he lost his mind?" 20:20:24 <Belugas> And guess who wrote War Pigs? Black Sabbath 20:20:31 <Belugas> kids these days ... 20:20:32 <Belugas> lol! 20:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> and you really expect me to know texts of any song? 20:20:42 <peter1138> They know nothing! 20:20:44 <TrueBrain> those old people those days ... 20:20:56 <Belugas> there you go :) 20:21:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14388 /branches/0.6/ (6 files in 4 dirs): 20:21:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Prepare for 0.6.3-RC1. 20:21:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r14385): even more of the windowing system changed. 20:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> additionally, songs that are not directly in my line of interest... 20:21:19 * Belugas runs after TrueBrain, hitting him with a cane 20:21:30 <TrueBrain> I am faster anyway 20:21:32 <TrueBrain> so .. :p 20:22:45 <Belugas> pfffft 20:22:57 <Belugas> look at the coward climbing that tree... 20:22:58 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c898.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong] 20:23:21 <TrueBrain> hehehehe :) 20:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> i once saw this T-Shirt in a shop, something along the lines of "intelligence is pursuing me, but i am faster." ... after all these years i'm still sad that i didn't buy it... 20:24:06 <TrueBrain> I liked the shirt saying: Broken Pixels, all blurred out :p 20:25:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> the t-shirt was fitting me in so many ways... 20:25:38 <Wolf01> 'night 20:25:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:25:52 <TrueBrain> night Wolf01 20:26:20 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:26:46 <Belugas> see how fast you are? you cannot even say bye before he actuallyis gone :P 20:27:35 <TrueBrain> which is REALLY hard with Wolf01 20:27:42 <Belugas> hehe 20:27:43 <TrueBrain> I tried to make a habbit to beat him to it .. 20:27:47 <TrueBrain> mostly fails :p 20:27:48 <Belugas> try with frosch123 now ;) 20:28:18 <TrueBrain> evne more impossible 20:28:34 <frosch123> SmatZ beated me once :) 20:28:49 <TrueBrain> mind the: once 20:28:50 <TrueBrain> lol 20:31:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14389 /tags/0.6.3-RC1/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.6.3-RC1. 20:32:18 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen 20:38:27 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:24 <Belugas> the good soldier has performed his duty. time to retreat in the confort of a home sweet home 20:39:26 <Belugas> bye bye 20:41:12 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-177-31.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:45:30 <SmatZ> [22:28:36] <frosch123> SmatZ beated me once :) <== what happened? 20:45:31 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 20:45:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F615.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:47 <SmatZ> ahhh :) 20:45:48 <SmatZ> hehehe 20:46:04 <TrueBrain> you felt 20:49:01 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:49:51 *** FauxFaux [~faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:49:57 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C635.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:51:55 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 20:57:10 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F7FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:38 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.186.132.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:01:19 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:09:28 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493E539.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:09:56 *** ecke1 [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke1] 21:11:17 <TrueBrain> "If it's too loud, you are too old" 21:11:18 <TrueBrain> haha :) 21:11:34 <peter1138> Hmm 21:11:37 <peter1138> Does anyone have... 21:11:55 <peter1138> "Hall Of The Mountain Womble"? 21:12:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff23b.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F615.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:17 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:57 <Tekky> Is the OpenTTD binary being distributed legally? Doesn't the source code of libpng, zlib and Freetype also have to be included on the site, since the OpenTTD binary links to them? 21:26:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 21:26:56 <peter1138> No. 21:27:04 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 21:27:14 <ln> I doubt their licenses say anything about "a site". 21:28:06 <Tekky> their licenses? I am talking about the GPL.... 21:28:20 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 21:28:21 <Tekky> peter1138: Does your reply refer to my first or second question? 21:28:34 <ln> I didn't know libpng is GPL. 21:28:47 <Tekky> ln: it isn't. 21:28:55 <ln> See. 21:29:32 <Tekky> But as far as I can tell, the distribution of the OpenTTD binary violates the GPL, for the reasons that I stated. 21:29:52 <ln> Doesn't the source code of Windows need to be included on the site, because OpenTTD binary links to it? 21:31:29 *** CIA-8 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 21:31:29 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] 21:33:05 <fjb> Yes, because everything that gets linked against GPLed code automatically inherits the GPL. So Windoes is automatically licensed under GPL now. 21:33:18 *** sulai4511 [~Miranda@p5B2B6213.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:33:28 <Tim> You are releasing 0.6.3? Is there a changelog somewhere? Anything but bugfixes? 21:33:31 <sulai4511> !log 21:33:40 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 21:33:40 <sulai4511> !logs 21:33:40 <fjb> Microsoft is obviously violating the copyright law. 21:34:36 *** sulai [~Miranda@p5B2B666D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:51 <Tekky> ln: No, this in not the case. Here is the text in the GPL which says so: 21:36:52 <Tekky> However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component itself accompanies the executable. 21:37:11 <Tekky> my last message is a quote of the GPL 21:38:35 <ln> What version of DirectX does OTTD require, and is that normally shipped with a) XP, b) 2000, c) 98? 21:38:42 *** nckomodo [~nckomodo@scottb.carrollwater-wifi0.amplex.net] has quit [] 21:38:48 <Brianetta> fjb: Microsoft isn't distributing GPL software; how are *they* violating anything? 21:39:14 <fjb> Read the GPL. 21:39:38 <Brianetta> "Everything that gets linked against GPLed code automatically inherits the GPL" is not true 21:40:25 <Brianetta> "Everything linked against GPL'd code must be GPL otherwise the code isn't licensed under the GPL" is true 21:55:39 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37C93B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:27 <TinoDidriksen> Tekky, libpng, zlib, and Freetype also fall into the category of operating system libraries. 21:59:02 <TinoDidriksen> And in either case, you are never required to provide your own mirror of linked libraries. All you are required to do is provide the sources upon request, or refer to where they can be obtained. 22:02:27 <ln> TinoDidriksen: "refer to where they can be obtained" is not enough for GPLv2. 22:05:27 <TinoDidriksen> If someone asks you for the libpng sources and you link to the download on libpng.org, that's providing the sources. 22:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a very arguable corner case 22:06:51 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: It is not enough to provide the sources on request. You must provide a written offer for the source code. 22:07:51 <TinoDidriksen> ...that's what I meant - if someone takes your offer, linking to libpng.org is fulfilling that offer. 22:08:35 <TinoDidriksen> If the libpng.org site becomes defunct, then you must provide a different source, or mirror yourself. 22:08:38 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: The GPL uses the word "accompany", not "provide". This imples that it must be available from the same source, in my opinion. 22:08:47 <Tekky> therefore, a link is not sufficient. 22:10:30 <TinoDidriksen> The files are there, have no further restrictions on download, and are identical to the ones you're using - that's sufficient. There is no difference in linking to your own site or the upstream provider, unless one is defunct. 22:10:31 <Tekky> in another place, the GPL uses the word "equivalent access" in this context. 22:10:53 <Tekky> providing a link is certainly not "equivalent access" when you provide the binary directly. 22:11:10 <TinoDidriksen> Binary is available via URL. So are sources. 22:12:11 <TinoDidriksen> If you distribute binary on CD, then you may have a point that you should be able to request a CD with sources, but until then any valid URL will do. 22:13:09 <Tekky> hmmmm, that's an interesting argument.... it may be valid as long as the other site is up.... 22:14:31 <Tekky> I just read the GPL again and it explicity states that it must be made available from "the same place: 22:14:41 <Tekky> from "the same place": 22:14:54 <ln> TinoDidriksen's interpretations cannot be deduced from the GPL. 22:14:54 <Tekky> If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering 22:14:55 <Tekky> access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent 22:14:57 <Tekky> access to copy the source code from the same place counts as 22:14:59 <Tekky> distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not 22:15:00 <Tekky> compelled to copy the source along with the object code. 22:15:08 <Tekky> oh, sorry, I wanted to post this text as one line. 22:16:36 <Tekky> if you provide a link to another site on the internet, this obviously does not satisfy the GPLs requirement of "the same place". 22:18:00 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 22:19:04 <Tekky> Your argument that libpng, zlib and Freetype qualify as OS libraries may be valid. The GPL states the following: "However, as a special exception, the source code distributed need not include anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the operating system on which the executable runs, unless that... 22:19:06 <Tekky> ...component itself accompanies the executable." 22:19:12 <TinoDidriksen> Hm, hadn't seen that part. Either case for OpenTTD, they're not required to do so until someone actually asks for it, and also not required to do it for standard OS libraries. 22:19:15 <Rubidium> but "the same place" would mean the same .tar.gz (or whatever) 22:19:42 <TinoDidriksen> Nah, not same archive. Don't need object code and source code in the same archive. 22:19:50 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 22:20:13 <Rubidium> unless it is the place from where you offer it 22:20:18 <TinoDidriksen> Just that the vendor who distributes the binary should also distribute sources upon request. 22:21:44 <TinoDidriksen> So if someone requests the libraries, emailing them a few tar.gz's would definetly suffice. And that I know since that's how some court settlements have come out. 22:21:46 <Rubidium> anyhow, IMO that part of the GPL can be explained in at least two ways 22:22:07 <Tekky> However, the argument that zlib, libpng and Freetype qualify as OS libraries obviously does not apply to Windows. 22:22:52 <TinoDidriksen> Even on Win32 you're only required to do anything upon request. Not required to maintain a mirror 24/7 just in case. 22:23:36 <Rubidium> how does something like firefox do it? they have lawyers that oversee whether they do it correctly 22:24:04 <TinoDidriksen> Firefox does not use GPL libraries. 22:24:41 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:24:47 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad3486b.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:26:25 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: A court settlement is an agreement between two parties and is not a legal judgement. Therefore, the result of a court settlement does not imply anything about the legal situation. 22:30:20 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: Firefox uses libfreetype, libfontconfig, zlib1g and libpng 22:31:03 * peter1138 hmms at variable 1C 22:31:17 <Rubidium> Firefox is can furthermore be licensed under GPL (or at least many many many parts of it) 22:31:26 <Rubidium> just search for GPL in their source tree 22:31:56 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7E7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:06 <TinoDidriksen> Freetype is BSD, FontConfig is MIT, zlib is BSD-style, libpng is zlib license. None are GPL. 22:33:24 <TinoDidriksen> Firefox itself is tripple-licences as MPL, GPL, and LGPL. 22:34:11 * peter1138 gets confused by Pikka's code :o 22:34:19 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 22:35:16 <Rubidium> TinoDidriksen: so if you tripple or whatever-how-many-but-more-than-one license you can cherry pick the rules you like from those licenses and distribute using that? 22:36:15 <TinoDidriksen> You have to pick one license and stick to that. MySQL does the same with a GPL and a commercial proprietary version. 22:37:00 <TinoDidriksen> But Firefox and MySQL can allow that because they own the project wholly - they do not use GPL code themselves. 22:38:20 <Ammler> the OpenGFX license is coming to a end, GPL! :-) 22:38:58 *** welshdragon [~vista@83.100.249.30] has joined #openttd 22:39:02 <Rubidium> so opengfx must now distribute grfcodec and boost to be legal? 22:39:51 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:40:02 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:25 <TinoDidriksen> Nah, Boost is BSD-style, not copyleft. 22:41:01 <Rubidium> but opengfx requires grfcodec and grfcodec requires boost 22:41:01 <Ammler> Has ordude a license for sample.cat? 22:41:25 <Ammler> or will there come the same again? 22:41:58 <Ammler> orudge: ^ 22:42:19 <TinoDidriksen> Anyways, Tekky, http://gpl-violations.org/ is good reading for that has worked with regards to GPL. Actual court judgements, injunctions, settlements, etc. 22:43:25 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:43:53 <TinoDidriksen> GRFCodec is GPL, but when you distribute the source you don't need to include Boost as that's not GPL. 22:44:26 <Rubidium> so WHY do we have to include zlib and friends? 22:44:49 <TinoDidriksen> You don't if they are not GPL, which they are not. Only to the GPL parts. 22:45:16 <TinoDidriksen> ...or a written offer redeemable for the sources... 22:45:57 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: Thx, that link is very interesting 22:47:28 <Tekky> Rubidium: The thing is that openttd.org also distributes BINARIES of OpenTTD, not only source code. 22:48:18 <Tekky> Rubidium: and these binaries are linked to zlib, etc. 22:48:38 <TinoDidriksen> But still, zlib source would never be required as that's not a GPL library. If OpenTTD does link against GPL libraries, then written offers for the source of those should be included. 22:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> you are speaking rubbish 22:50:21 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet509.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:24 <TinoDidriksen> No, that's the core of the GPL... 22:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> all libraries that a GPL program links to must be either "system" or "GPL (compatible)"... you cannot link to anything else (and distribute the binary) 22:51:13 <Rubidium> yeah, we could ofcourse remove all binaries 22:51:21 <Rubidium> makes life much easier 22:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd definitely call zlib etc. a "system" library 22:51:55 <TinoDidriksen> Incorrect. A GPL program can link against a closed source library without problems - but a closed source program cannot link against a GPL library without adhering to the GPL. 22:51:58 <Tekky> <TinoDidriksen> But still, zlib source would never be required as that's not a GPL library. <-- I disagree with this. The GPL requires that the source code of all modules the GPL program links to be made available. Therefore, it is irrelevant whether zlib, etc. is GPL or not. 22:52:32 <Tekky> Eddi: On the linux platform yes, but definately not on the Windows platform. 22:52:35 <Rubidium> Tekky: that is YOUR interpretation of the piece of ambiguous legalish 22:53:23 <Ammler> what is the problem, no source for zlib available? 22:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> Tekky: there are windows compile environments that come with zlib 22:53:32 <Tekky> Eddi: So your argument does not apply to distributing the Windows binary, as far as I can tell. 22:53:47 <TinoDidriksen> If Closed uses GPL, Closed must be GPL'ed -- if GPL uses Closed, nothing happens to Closed. 22:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, it's a grey area, but a very light grey... 22:54:24 * Rubidium reads the blob Tekky pasted 40 minutes ago as: 22:54:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> TinoDidriksen: if GPL links to closed, and closed does not fall under the system clause, GPL cannot be legally distributed in binary form 22:54:52 <DaleStan> <TinoDidriksen> if GPL uses Closed <-- then closed must be licensed in a way that permits it to be redistributed under the GPL. 22:55:49 <DaleStan> Or there must be a special exception that permits the GPL'ed work to be linked with the closed-source work. 22:56:35 <glx> like any exe running on windows? 22:56:39 <Rubidium> if distributing a binary is done by offering access (e.g. linking) from a designated place (e.g. openttd's website), then offering access (e.g. linking) of said source should be done from the same place (e.g. openttd's website) 22:58:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> TinoDidriksen: a library that is linked to by GPL does not fall under the "system" rule, where you don't have to do anything, you have to provide the source, no matter if the library is GPL or not 22:58:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> else you cannot distribute your program under the GPL 22:58:31 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:37 <TinoDidriksen> As I recall, that depends on whether you're doing dynamic or static linking. Static you're right - dynamic does not require it. 23:00:07 <DaleStan> <glx> like any exe running on windows? <-- That's covered by the system library exception. 23:00:13 <Tekky> Rubidium: I doubt that any judge would regard providing a link as "offering equivalent access (...) from the same place". 23:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> the GPL does not state anything about static or dynamic 23:01:05 <Rubidium> Tekky: in that case Debian is not following GPL 23:01:29 <Tekky> unless that link is on the same server. 23:01:49 <Tekky> or at least on the same internet site. 23:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the link to the source must be on the same place as the link to the binary 23:02:10 <TinoDidriksen> GPL itself does not mention type of linking, but it has been discussed rather widely since dynamic linking allows for drop-in replacement libraries which may not be GPL. 23:02:22 <DaleStan> The FSF says different sites is OK: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#SourceAndBinaryOnDifferentSites Even different protocol is OK: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AnonFTPAndSendSources 23:02:25 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> where the files actually are does not matter (as long as access is "equivalent") 23:04:00 <Rubidium> but maybe downloading != downloading 23:04:29 <Tekky> DaleStan: thx for the link, very intersting 23:04:38 <Tekky> Eddi: ah, yes, I think you are right. 23:07:07 <Tekky> "the same place" just means that the same page that provides a link to the binary must also provide a link to the source code...... 23:08:44 <TinoDidriksen> Not even. As long as the written offer is in the distribution, which it is, then people know who to contact for the source, should they so desire. 23:08:56 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 23:09:03 <peter1138> There are a million-and-one other projects that depend on libraries and don't include their source. Why do you think OpenTTD should be any different? 23:11:06 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 23:12:22 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 23:14:54 <Tekky> I see one problem, though. OpenTTD may link to the zlib homepage, but it does not state anywhere which version was used for compiling the binaries. Therefore, I wouldn't consider this a valid link to the source code. 23:20:11 <TinoDidriksen> It isn't required. All that's required is that when someone asks for the source, you provide it to them. Providing a link on the OTTD site is the shortcut where people don't need to ask in most cases, and the few who do ask can do so via IRC/email/letter/etc. 23:20:14 <Belugas> peter1138, maybe because people love to argue and make THEIR point the Holy Graal of Truth 23:20:23 <Belugas> I'M RIGHT,YOUR"RE NOT 23:20:48 <Belugas> "do you know waht you are talking about?" "Yes, I've read it on the Internet" 23:21:09 *** Yeggzzz [~mind@cpc1-rdng14-0-0-cust946.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:43 <Belugas> off-"topic": Phantasm, are you pleased with the "fix" ? 23:22:30 <Tekky> but the main question is, is "zlib" a library that is "normally distributed" with the "major components of the operating system". Under Linux, I would say yes, but this does not apply to the Windows platform, I would say. Therefore, I believe that the distribution of Windows binaries requires the source code of zlib, libpng, etc. be made available. 23:24:40 <Tekky> Eddi pointed out that there are Windows compile environments that include zlib. I'm not sure if this is relevant or not, if these compile environments are not used for building the binary. 23:26:10 <TinoDidriksen> It's still not a GPL library. The normal way of distributing zlib on Win32 is via zlib1.dll, which is not part of the GPL exe. 23:26:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F615.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:09 *** Volley [~worf@84-119-46-6.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:12 <Tekky> even if you use dynamic linkage, it is still a "module", however, it is not a "module" that the "executable work" "contains". Hmmmm, according to this wording, there is a significant difference between static and dynamic linkage, but I once read that these two types of linkage are treated legally the same? 23:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's what the "no matter how they are packaged" part of the GPL is supposed to clarify 23:31:22 <Tekky> from what I read in the GPL, I tend to agree with TinoDidriksen's view that it matters whether it is dynamically or statically linked. 23:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> the GPL specifically refers to "links to", and not "part of" 23:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that means both ways of linkage 23:32:56 <Tekky> are you talking about version 3 of the GPL? I cannot find any of the quotations you use in version 2? 23:33:00 <TinoDidriksen> RMS thinks dynamic and static are the same, but he obviously would. Legal people are not so sure, because the object code really isn't part of the distributed binary. It links to a few headers, but the library itself can be replaced with any interface-compatible DLL/.so. 23:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> some parts of what i said may be GPLv3 specific, i don't have the text in front of me right now 23:34:53 <glx> OpenTTD uses v2 23:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> i know 23:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> which in such disputed cases may be the better choice :) 23:35:39 <peter1138> v2 or above. 23:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> openttd is not "or above" 23:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> at least not last time licenses were discussed 23:36:47 <peter1138> That standard v2 includes "any later version" 23:37:07 *** MetalSleep is now known as Metalcore 23:37:21 <ln> the website doesn't. 23:38:08 <ln> also what matters is what ludde wrote. 23:39:54 <ln> peter1138: By that definition, "licensed under GPLv2" would always mean the same as "under GPLv2 or later". 23:41:15 <Ammler> :-) Tekky, but zlib is availabe, I don't see your problem... 23:41:52 <TinoDidriksen> Famous example of no "any later version" is the Linux kernel. No v3 for that. 23:42:45 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7E7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:42:59 <Tekky> the GPL states the following, which imples that "any later version" is not default: 23:43:01 <Tekky> If the Program specifies a version number of this License which applies to it and "any later version", you have the option of following the terms and conditions either of that version or of any later version published by the Free Software Foundation. 23:43:23 <TinoDidriksen> And you can remove that part from it. 23:44:02 <TinoDidriksen> And many did as they weren't comfortable with the whole license being magically allowed under a later version. 23:44:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-177-31.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:38 <Tekky> Ammler: This is just a discussion about whether the OpenTTD site is complying with the terms of the GPL. 23:45:21 <ln> Soooo what happens if I license something under GPLv4 or later? 23:45:44 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7E7DB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:45:44 <TinoDidriksen> Anywho, back to OTTD, it does not currently have to do anything extra. It's in compliance with the GPL; the dist includes the COPYING file. 23:47:19 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g226207082.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 23:47:36 <ccfreak2k> The OpenTTD source code has been made available. Doesn't that count as being compliant? 23:47:41 <TinoDidriksen> Besides, OTTD project itself cannot technically violate the GPL for their own code as they are the copyright holders. Only if others were to distribute OTTD would they have to comply. 23:49:53 <TinoDidriksen> (and here I am not sure whether grfcodec is an in-house subproject or a 3rd party library) 23:50:45 <ln> (or whether OTTD project is the copyright holder for what was taken from Chris Sawyer's work) 23:51:47 <DaleStan> <TinoDidriksen> (and here I am not sure whether grfcodec is an in-house subproject or a 3rd party library) <-- That's like trying to call GCC a third-party library. 23:52:11 <TinoDidriksen> No, I mean I am really not sure who owns grfcodec. 23:52:45 <Tekky> TinoDidriksen: The OpenTTD code was made by many developers. Therefore, even if all current OpenTTD developers agree to not use the GPL anymore, this would be a copyright infringement of the work of the previous OpenTTD developers and all people who made patches that were eventually submitted into trunk. Of course, the copyright infringement of the original TTD game is a completely different... 23:52:47 <Tekky> ...issue. 23:53:11 <DaleStan> Josef and I, mostly. I know Tron contributed some, and I think minime did too. 23:53:11 <Tekky> Therefore, the current OpenTTD team is bound by the GPL. 23:57:03 <TinoDidriksen> That's what copyright assignation is for. But, ln is correct that OTTD as a whole is technically illegal for another 100 years since it contains reverse-engineered code. 23:57:06 <TinoDidriksen> Even so, zlib when distributed as a dynamic library does not need source; you don't link against zlib, but against a few headers which define the interface, and those headers are all that's required. 23:57:40 <Tekky> by the way, I think OpenTTD also violates section 1 of the GPL, because it doesn't carry conspicuous dislaimers of warranty. 23:57:53 *** Zorn [zorn@e177234054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 23:59:47 <Tekky> At least I have never noticed any disclaimer of warranty in my 3 years of playing OpenTTD, except when I once opened the COPYING file.