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00:05:10 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:15:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-182-102.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:58 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 00:32:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B749D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7712E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:45 *** Sacro|SSL [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:40:16 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:28 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:01 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:17 *** Dred_furst` [~Dred_furs@resnet593.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:03 *** Jezral [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd 01:39:33 *** pazvlad [~hdh@124-169-114-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:40:21 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:41:08 *** pazvlad [~hdh@124-169-114-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 01:52:01 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:56:45 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:15:43 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:20 *** Sacro|SSL [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:27 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180069006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 03:07:27 *** elmex [~elmex@e180066234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:07:31 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:18:25 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BB31D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 03:24:40 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:59:46 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:03:28 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:30:22 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has joined #openttd 04:36:36 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 04:37:06 *** Jezral [~projectjj@85.27.135.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:41:26 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EDBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:15:00 *** pazvlad [~hdh@124-169-114-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:26:46 *** pazvlad [~hdh@124-169-114-68.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 05:38:58 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-57.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:34 *** SpComb^ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 06:21:34 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:27:30 <peter1138> Silly george. 06:39:45 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.181.198.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 06:43:23 <Forked> happy happy happy :D 06:44:39 <peter1138> Who is? 06:45:13 <Forked> I am 06:50:22 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 06:52:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14401 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11724): Don't check articulated parts or rear multihead parts for callback 1D when moving a chain of wagons. 07:09:06 *** letto [~letto@86.120.71.102] has joined #openttd 07:19:46 *** petererer [~petern@84.246.155.74] has joined #openttd 07:20:00 <petererer> Hmz 07:24:30 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work 07:32:46 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: My jdem, my jdem, laminátorovi cviko rozbijem!] 07:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't imagine that this phrase is even pronounceable ;) 07:43:04 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:47:28 *** You're now known as SpComb 07:47:35 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@123.200.206.215] has joined #openttd 07:47:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7712E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:50:18 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:35 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:51:09 *** Gekz_ [~brendan@123.200.206.215] has quit [] 07:56:12 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:58:46 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:08:19 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 08:10:50 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 08:19:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 08:20:33 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:33:00 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:41:28 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-169.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:45:41 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:39 <petererer> Hostname: lachesis - OS: Linux 2.6.26-1-686/i686 - CPU: 2 x Intel(R) Xeon(TM) (2399.425 MHz) - Processes: 61 - Uptime: 17h 26m - Load Average: 0.11 - Memory Usage: 69.32MB/3996.20MB (1.73%) - Disk Usage: 1.06GB/76.55GB (1.38%) - Network Traffic (eth0): 301.06MB In/98.95MB Out 08:47:45 <petererer> Hee, what a silly script. 08:47:49 <Gekz> lol. 08:53:22 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 08:55:36 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:56:26 <petererer> Yes, it's irssi. 08:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i just found that out already ;) 08:59:21 <petererer> Which, of course, means I had to know exactly what that script was for ;) 08:59:38 <petererer> Hmm, let's see. 08:59:43 <peter1138> Hostname: svn - OS: Linux 2.6.18-6-686/i686 - CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 (1494.582 MHz) - Processes: 87 - Uptime: 2d 21h 1m - Load Average: 0.00 - Memory Usage: 285.54MB/504.76MB (56.57%) - Disk Usage: 9.46GB/14.32GB (66.03%) - Network Traffic (eth4): 70.72MB In/89.97MB Out 09:00:17 <petererer> And that is enough of that. 09:14:09 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 09:14:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 09:14:15 <Celestar> \po 09:14:20 <Celestar> \o 09:14:49 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.181.198.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:14 <Forked> good morning :) 09:41:38 <Celestar> *sneeeeeeze* 09:49:02 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-230.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 09:49:23 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-230.fi.muni.cz] has left #openttd [] 09:49:33 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-230.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 10:10:42 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-230.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 10:31:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 10:36:50 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493E78D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:38:31 <Tekky> 6 weeks ago, I started a poll concerning whether and how YAPP signals should be renamed. I have now started a runoff poll in the following forum thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=39762 10:43:04 *** Sono2 [~Sono2@78.46.42.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F156.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:17 <petererer> 35% vs 24% is not conclusive? 11:05:27 <helb_> Is it possible to delete all industries on map at once? (in scenario editor) 11:05:31 *** helb_ is now known as helb 11:08:28 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:17 *** TrogDoor [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-232.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:14:18 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet617.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 11:18:30 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-169.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:36 *** TrogDoor is now known as Doorslammer 11:19:32 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 11:25:57 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 11:39:37 <Celestar> petererer: http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff <= how's that? 11:40:28 <petererer> Some compilers do not like foo::bar::baz 11:40:33 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@147.251.215.232] has joined #openttd 11:41:43 <Celestar> I haven't managed to encouter one yet :P 11:41:53 <Celestar> maybe TrueBrain should test this diff on Morphos 11:42:03 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:42:15 <Yexo> Celestar: iirc gcc 2.95 gave problems with yapf code that did that 11:42:31 <Celestar> petererer: and, there is foo::bar::baz even before that diff, isn't there? 11:43:29 <petererer> I don't know :) 11:43:40 <Celestar> we can still put using namespace RoutingBase_t; somewhere (= 11:44:02 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd 11:44:12 <Yexo> petererer == peter1138 ? 11:45:15 <Celestar> no. petererer != peter1138, but *petererer == *peter1138 :P 11:47:09 <Yexo> what is the current status of cargodest? does it need more testing or just codereview? 11:49:57 <Celestar> Yexo: tests have been very successful 11:50:06 <Yexo> good to hear that :) 11:50:09 <Celestar> so quite a bit of review needs to be done 11:50:23 * petererer clones the repo on to his new server. 11:51:04 <Celestar> :D 11:51:06 <jpm> Yeah, It would be very nice to have cargodest in trunk soon... 11:51:25 <Celestar> In December, I'll possibly work on cargodest v2 ;) 11:54:56 <SmatZ> cargodest v2? 11:55:58 <Rubidium> SmatZ: yeah, something needs to be rewritten a few times before it can go in trunk 11:57:00 <SmatZ> :-) 11:57:19 <SmatZ> now that's responsible attitude! 11:58:03 * SpComb had lots of desynchs with cargodest last time he played it 11:58:21 <SpComb> but it might have had something to do with using a savegame from an older version of it with a newer version 11:58:55 <Celestar> SpComb: when was that? 11:59:05 <SpComb> a fair while ago 11:59:08 <SpComb> several weeks 11:59:10 <Celestar> ah 12:01:54 <Celestar> I love this place: http://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/1387535/L/ 12:01:54 <Celestar> :D 12:02:31 <Tefad> google maps not gooed enough for you? 12:02:43 <Celestar> nope 12:03:00 <Tefad> heh, is that a target store 12:03:46 <Celestar> Google Maps is outdated :D 12:04:46 <Celestar> 9L/27R is mostly missing :) 12:05:27 <Celestar> but it still is a messy layout, innit :P 12:09:09 <petererer> It's just an airport :p 12:09:51 <Celestar> yeah 12:10:03 <Celestar> one with 8 runways 12:10:44 <Brianetta> I counted 14 12:10:52 * Brianetta looks for the other strip 12:11:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: one is temporarily decomissioned, the other not yet commissioned (= 12:12:02 <Brianetta> er 12:12:07 <Brianetta> I see 7 12:12:16 <Brianetta> which is 14 of you count both directions 12:12:32 <Celestar> yeah, 18/36 is not easy to identify as an (ex-)runway 12:12:41 <Brianetta> Whereis it? 12:12:50 <Brianetta> or, which way is north? 12:13:16 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:13:32 <Celestar> north is where the new runway is (bottom right). When you follow the new taxiway (bottom center) of the new runway, this leads into what was 18/36 12:13:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:57 <Brianetta> shit yeah 12:13:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:01 <Brianetta> I totally missed that 12:14:08 <petererer> Right through the middle. 12:14:19 <Celestar> yeah, it's currently twy Whiskey-Tango 12:14:26 <Brianetta> It's nowhere near as long as it was 12:14:34 <Brianetta> somebody built a terminal on it 12:14:35 <Celestar> this will be closed, two others will be closed and three more will be built 12:15:27 <Celestar> because this is currently a Spaghetti-layout (= 12:16:23 <Brianetta> One of those runways could take the Shuttle 12:16:40 <Celestar> the big one is 13.000x200 ft 12:16:45 <fjb> Hm, what happened to the new airports branch? :-) 12:16:48 <Celestar> or almost 4000x60m 12:20:49 * petererer ponders popping out to get some lunch. 12:22:09 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:22:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:25:23 <Celestar> Q3A on nightmare is .. hard :P 12:26:15 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 12:26:27 <Chrill> somebody come play @ Brianetta's standard !! :O 12:26:36 <Brianetta> Somebody is. 12:26:37 <Brianetta> You. 12:28:41 <Chrill> yes, but i want someone to play with :P 12:28:53 <Chrill> multiplayer alone is so disencouraging :P 12:29:21 *** sexten [~sexten@252.80-202-224.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 12:30:40 <Brianetta> not to mention is pisses of the players who only get ten years with their companies 12:30:49 <sexten> you've probably heard this question before, but I couldn't find an answer to it. If you play in a network game as i.e. Player 7 and save the game. Then you later on want to load the game and play on as Player 7, but you can't because you're automatically set to Player 1. How do you get to play as Player 7?:) 12:31:07 <Brianetta> Ctrl-Alt-C 12:31:12 <Brianetta> opens the cheat window 12:31:17 <Brianetta> which lets you switch player 12:32:13 <sexten> heh, that command opened the control center of my graphic card:p 12:32:31 <Brianetta> How useful. 12:32:34 <Yexo> try ctrl+win+alt+c 12:32:49 <Brianetta> ctrl-lose-alt-c 12:32:58 <Yexo> :p 12:33:00 <hylje> ctrl/tie/alt/c 12:33:04 <sexten> there we go. thanks a lot Brianetta & Yexo:) 12:36:46 <Tekky> peterer: 35% is still quite far away from 50% :) Many people who voted for renaming YAPP "advanced signals" to something completely different may now want to vote for "PBS signals" or may want to vote to not change the name at all...... 12:37:32 <Tekky> However, I do hope that "path signals" wins the poll :) 12:38:22 <sexten> one more n00b question. When playing a game and in the 50s, you get the "old style" signals when building train tracks, however if you hold the Ctrl button down while building you get the "modern" signals. Is there any way to make the modern signals default? Or is it automatic after a given year? 12:39:04 <Tekky> sexten: in the patch settings, you can set the year from when on to build modern signals. I set this to year 0 in order to always build them. 12:39:40 <sexten> I see, thanks again:) it's a little weird the modern signals is always available though 12:40:19 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:40:55 <Tekky> however, this only works with games with a year > 0. If you are playing a game in the Roman Empire with horse trains, then this won't work :) But this should not matter, as horse trains did not use signals, as far as I know :) And I think the Roman Empire didn't even have any horse trains, yet :) 12:41:23 <sexten> haha 12:41:38 <sexten> perhaps an idea for OpenTTD B.C.? 12:42:57 <Chrill> BC? 12:43:11 <Tekky> B.C. = Before Christ, which means a year number below 0. 12:43:21 <hylje> i'm all for a all-times-TTD 12:43:23 <Chrill> why'd openttd hit BC? :P 12:44:04 <hylje> carriages and ships in the ancient times, bigger carriages and bigger ships later 12:44:21 <SmatZ> slaves 12:44:28 <Celestar> Tekky: there is no year 0 12:44:32 <Tekky> yes, an Age of Empires style of transportation game, where you start in the stone age, that would be cool :) 12:44:33 <Celestar> Tekky: only 1 BC and 1AD 12:44:35 <Chrill> there are plans for openttd games running over 2500 years, starting BC and ending.. now? 12:44:42 <hylje> i'd start out from classical times 12:44:52 <hylje> because people and stuff didn't move about so much earlier 12:46:09 <Celestar> people didn't move much before the invention of railways ... 12:46:35 <hylje> there was trade in the classical times and onward 12:47:58 <Tekky> actually, it may be quite a nice idea for a game, that you are in charge of doing all the transport for a whole Civilization. If you don't take care of transporting any goods, the Civilization will not be able to expand and will die of hunger :) 12:48:40 <hylje> maybe stuff would work regardless of the transport manager 12:48:42 <hylje> but just slow 12:48:52 <hylje> you'd set up trade and supply chains 12:49:24 <Tekky> in the stone age, you employ human haulers, later you emply humans with wooden carts, later you emply horse wagons, until you can finally build trains :) 12:49:40 <Tekky> emply = employ 12:50:15 <hylje> don't forget ships 12:50:22 <Celestar> Tekky: yeah, let's write a new game (= 12:50:31 <Tekky> hehe :) 12:50:33 <hylje> the game will work nearly as it is 12:50:41 <hylje> all that stuff above is largely newgrf 12:51:25 <Tekky> unfortunately, there is not much development going on anymore with Transport Empire...... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=56 12:53:18 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.146.197.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:38 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BCDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:54:47 <Tekky> In the next 5 years, OpenTTD will have to be largely rewritten anyway for use of multiple cores. Therefore, we can also think about new features to be added while doing the rewrite :) 12:55:11 <hylje> lifting of restrictions rather than features 12:55:14 <Chrill> Brianetta said my name in #tycoon half an hour ago, what'd he want? :P 12:55:17 <sexten> how big maps are you planning on playing/making that needs multi-cores?:) 12:55:21 <hylje> is what makes this thing possible 12:55:32 <davis-> hi 12:55:33 <FauxFaux> sexten: Why have a finite size map? 12:56:02 <Celestar> Tekky: there is no need to rewrite the whole game 12:56:47 <Tekky> Celestar: You are saying that implementing multiprocessor support does not require a major rewrite? 12:57:01 <Celestar> Tekky: depends 12:58:02 <Tekky> sexten: It is not so much the size of the map, but rather the number of vehicles and the complexity of the rail network. 13:03:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:40 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D341.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:05:07 <Celestar> Tekky: the first question is what to multithread 13:05:31 <Celestar> one *might* be able to run the blitter in a separate thread, but I'm not sure. 13:05:38 <sexten> 1 core per train?:) 13:06:13 <Celestar> 1 core system, 1 core GUI, 1 core AI ... 13:06:27 <davis-> pancakes! 13:06:34 <Tekky> Celestar: In 10 years, I will be having 16 cores. Your suggestion may be useful for computers with two cores but not more. 13:06:57 <Rubidium> oh no... not again the "we must multicore" discussion... 13:07:19 <Celestar> Rubidium: it keeps popping up, doesn't it? 13:07:26 <ln> Tekky: 16 cores will be soooo little in 10 years. 13:07:27 <petererer> 13:30 < Brianetta> not to mention is pisses of the players who only get ten years with their companies 13:07:35 <petererer> You could always set min_players to 2, or somesuch. 13:07:42 <Brianetta> I could 13:07:49 <Celestar> Rubidium: http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff <= is this about what you had in mind (first step) 13:08:02 <Chrill> Brianetta Brianetta Brianetta 13:08:09 <Brianetta> Chrill Chrill Chrill 13:08:15 <Chrill> you wanted me in #tycoon earlier? :P 13:08:28 <Chrill> also, have you had time to check my scenario? 13:08:29 <Brianetta> I *greeted* you on #tycoon earlier. 13:08:43 <Brianetta> The scenario's still in my inbox 13:09:05 <Chrill> kk 13:09:08 <davis-> :] 13:09:19 <Rubidium> Celestar: yes, that's what I had in mind 13:09:41 <Celestar> Rubidium: ok then (= 13:10:02 <Celestar> TrueBrain: http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff <= please test this diff against cargodest on morphos and tell me if gcc is happy with it (= 13:10:56 <Tekky> if the entire game is made so that everything is processed by 16 cores, then the state of the map array is not allowed to change within the same tick, otherwise race conditions will be introduced. Therefore, all changes to the map array within the same tick will have to be recorded seperately and applied at the end of the tick. This would require a major rewrite. 13:10:57 <Rubidium> a::b::c fails on gcc-too-old-but-morphos-developers-have-not-bothered-about-using-one-that-actually-works 13:11:16 *** Zeal [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:29 <Celestar> Rubidium: a::b::c was in the code before that diff and it did work on Morphos 13:12:40 <Celestar> Tekky: er .. assuming the state of one tile doesn't affect the state of another tile, it's easy. 13:12:48 <Rubidium> the current CF doesn't compile for morphos, so it hasn't been tested for weeks 13:13:31 <Rubidium> Tekky: please prove that your system is faster than just not doing the stuff on multiple cores 13:13:36 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.146.197.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:13:54 <petererer> And it wouldn't work anyway. 13:13:58 <Rubidium> as your are going to waste enormous amounts of CPU in mutexes/semaphores and other thread scheduling stuff 13:14:00 <glx> Celestar: maybe ask SmatZ to test it win gcc 2.95 13:14:06 <glx> *with 13:14:08 <Celestar> SmatZ: ping (= 13:15:08 <Celestar> Tekky: the thing is, in a large game, the stuff handling the tiles doesn't eat a lot of CPU 13:15:08 <peter1138> Ah, cargodest compiled :D 13:15:14 <Celestar> peter1138: (= 13:15:19 <peter1138> Helped to install boost ;) 13:16:05 <peter1138> Ah, yes, my hg does not support hg branch... Pompiedom 13:16:16 <peter1138> Sever version: h1b7af927-Merc 13:16:40 <Celestar> *burp* 13:17:10 <SmatZ> Celestar: hello 13:17:59 * SmatZ installs boost on his gcc2.95 chroot... 13:18:19 <Celestar> SmatZ: http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff <= please test this diff against cargodest on gcc 2.95.3 13:18:44 <Celestar> Tekky: you will never have "the entire game made so that everything is processed by 16 cores" 13:18:45 <Tekky> Rubidium: I agree with your concerns that this wouldn't be very beneficial with only two cores, because the amount of overhead produced make the code a lot more complex, and not necessarily faster. However, the trend in the CPU market is clearly going towards multi-cores rather than faster cores, so sooner or later, OpenTTD will have to offer support for multiple cores. 13:18:46 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:19:07 <Celestar> Tekky: there are always things that are inherently serial 13:19:30 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-183.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 13:19:54 <Celestar> hence n cores will never offer the same benefit as a core that is n times faster (see Amdahl's law) 13:20:21 <glx> and OpenTTD is not easy to split in multiple threads 13:20:34 <Celestar> btw: in about 5 years time, we might have reverse Hyperthreading or kernel-based multithreading so that "programming for multiple cores" might be obsolete. 13:20:35 <glx> as everything is interdependant 13:21:39 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:26:01 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.146.197.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 13:26:18 <Tekky> Celestar: Well, let's take pathfinding, for example. In most cases, it is sufficient that a train's pathfinder uses the map array as it was at the start of the tick and 16 cores could then independantly of each other calculate paths for all trains. Then, at the end of the tick, all thread's changes to the map array are commited to the map array and checked for conflicts. Only the rare cases... 13:26:19 <Tekky> ...where a conflict arises would have to be resolved in a serial manner. 13:27:51 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd 13:28:01 <petererer> Pathfinding depends on other vehicle movements. 13:28:04 <Celestar> Tekky: the correct way to do this is to First handle all the map stuff and run the loops, and after this is finished, run the vehicle stuff. 13:28:13 <Celestar> the problem is vehicle-vehicle depedence 13:28:34 <Celestar> however, aircraft and ships do not depend on other vehicles, so they could be offloaded (= 13:28:53 <Tekky> I think I once read that most CPU usage of OpenTTD is caused by actually moving the trains every tick. Most of the train moves do not conflict with each other in the same tick, so 16 cores could move trains independantly of each other, as long as they check for conflicts afterwards, to prevent desyncs. 13:29:26 <petererer> Aircraft pathfinding is not such a huge bottleneck. 13:29:32 <Celestar> peter1138: not really (= 13:30:09 <Celestar> Tekky: have you ever looked at a profile of a typical game? 13:30:11 <petererer> Personally I think it's pointless to even bother with the discussion :) 13:30:27 <Celestar> peter1138: but we could put DrawCatenaryRailway into a separate thread. That one is slow :P 13:30:56 <petererer> Or make it more efficient. 13:31:10 <Tekky> Celestar: I read a forum thread where KUDr and other people were talking about the output of a profiler used on OpenTTD. 13:31:29 <Celestar> petererer: it's not that I haven't tried to :P 13:31:57 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:10 <Celestar> Tekky: do you experience performance problems anywhere? 13:32:18 <Brianetta> I think aircraft paths should have random turns in them. So, instead of flying floor(dX-dY),floor(dY-dX) then min(dX),min(dY) they'd take any pseudo-random path of the same length. 13:33:25 <Celestar> Brianetta: yeah because aircraft tend to zig-zag around IRL? :P 13:33:46 <Brianetta> Celestar: They bloody should (: 13:33:49 <petererer> I'd like 'smooth' cornering ;) 13:33:55 <Celestar> Brianetta: why? 13:34:04 <petererer> Especially when reaching an airport... 13:34:13 <Celestar> petererer: yeah, but then we need more sprites (= 13:34:14 <petererer> Those 270 degree turns are silly. 13:34:22 <petererer> Not that smooth :p 13:34:33 <Celestar> petererer: I've already smoothend out the city airport, haven't I? 13:35:31 <Tekky> Celestar: yes, I have had serious performance problems with YAPP. A stopped train waiting in front of a red YAPP signal used to check once every tick for a new path, which caused big problems on networks with many waiting trains. Now, it only checks every 40 ticks for a new path, which is a significant improvement, but this performance issue is still there..... 13:36:39 <Celestar> Tekky: then the correct way to solve the problem is to use a better algorithm, not to throw more cores at the problem? 13:37:52 <Brianetta> Celestar: To make flights more fun 13:38:10 <Celestar> Brianetta: I know enough people who turn green on a straight-and-level flight. 13:38:18 <Tekky> Celestar: Yes, I agree with you that this could be implemented better. Instead of using a polling algorith, callbacks could be used when a path becomes free. 13:38:31 <Celestar> heh I've seen people turn green in a tilting ICE (= 13:38:46 <Celestar> only last week that was 13:38:48 <Brianetta> Bah 13:39:32 <Celestar> Leipzig-Nuremburg is a very curvy route, we had 20 minutes of delay so the driver was in a hurry and the train tilts 8° in each direction 13:39:39 <Brianetta> Stupid tilting trains should perfectly cancel all lateral forces 13:39:53 <Brianetta> This weak-minded fools who think this makes them sick should walk. 13:39:59 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:40:10 <Celestar> Brianetta: nope. High-Speed Tracks should be built so that they cancel all lateral forces. 13:40:29 <Brianetta> Celestar: Only if they can do it regardless of the train's speed. 13:40:34 <glx> vertical tracks in curves ? 13:40:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: no, at the rated speed of the track 13:40:52 <Celestar> Brianetta: afaik, the ICE-T has basically two operating modes. One that that cancels out lateral forces, one that permits maximum curve speed. 13:41:03 <Brianetta> Celestar: That's not flexible enough. I want my coffee *never* to tilt. 13:41:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: use a plane (= 13:41:21 <Brianetta> Planes are worse. 13:41:28 <Celestar> only in bad weather 13:41:32 <Brianetta> Train is the smoothest means of transport I know 13:41:33 <Celestar> (= 13:41:35 <Brianetta> and unfortunately 13:41:42 <Celestar> that depends on the train and the track I must say 13:41:48 <Brianetta> I also know that they deliberately don't cancel all lateral forces with tilt 13:42:01 <Brianetta> because some journalists were pissed on the APT 13:42:05 <Celestar> The Frankfurt-Cologne track feels like a roller-coaster at 300km/h. 13:42:26 <Brianetta> and thought that they felt sick 13:42:32 <Celestar> not so much the curves, but the 4% slopes ... 13:42:50 <Brianetta> In fact, they should just go and invent artificial gravity, and use that 13:42:58 <Brianetta> then they can throw the vehicle all over the place 13:43:16 <Brianetta> or even do corkscrew roll bridges 13:43:26 <Brianetta> and vertical sections 13:43:43 <Brianetta> all without spilling any of my precious coffee 13:43:50 <Brianetta> which, being train coffee, cost a fortune 13:44:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: btw: titling can cancle out lateral forces, but liquid is liquid, especially when it is inside your vestibular system and tells you that you about angular acceleration. 13:45:18 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:08 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd 13:46:11 <Celestar> Brianetta: and since the train, or the carriage, has a non-infinitisimal length, you will feel some angular accelaration in curves, even if you build them as clothoid. 13:46:29 <Brianetta> bah. barely perceptible. 13:46:41 <Brianetta> In any case, they should just optimise it for my seat. 13:46:51 <Brianetta> Or go with AG. 13:47:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: just use a blood lid for you bloody coffee :P 13:47:53 <Celestar> bloddy lid even 13:47:58 <Celestar> bloody :P 13:47:59 <Brianetta> oh 13:48:02 <Brianetta> never thought of that 13:48:04 <Brianetta> that might work 13:48:10 <Brianetta> but it's nowhere near as cool 13:48:19 <Celestar> KISS 13:48:38 <Brianetta> Keep It Stupid, Stupid 13:48:45 <Celestar> :P 13:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> Tekky: do you experience performance problems anywhere? <- yes, whenever i play an ECS game 13:53:33 *** DjViper [~freenode@084202244193.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd 13:53:41 <DjViper> hey 13:54:03 <Tekky> ECS games cause performance problems? Is this due to the logic of the finite state machine used by NewGRFs? 13:54:07 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:54:08 <De_Ghosty> aren't those for inertial dampeners? 13:54:29 <De_Ghosty> you don't get a force when acceleration 13:54:46 <De_Ghosty> i mean you only* 13:55:06 <DjViper> cargodest... how stable is that now? 13:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> Brianetta: nope. High-Speed Tracks should be built so that they cancel all lateral forces. <- only Leipzig-NÃŒrnberg is not a high speed track :p 13:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: afaik the most used function was "resolveSpriteGroup" 13:56:49 <Tekky> DjViper: I haven't noticed any bugs in cargodest, recently. 13:57:11 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 13:57:24 <DjViper> Tekky: can it be installed on the win build? 13:57:27 <DjViper> and, how? 13:57:50 <glx> DjViper: you can get it on http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/ 13:58:13 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [] 13:58:49 <glx> it's like a nightly 13:58:49 <DjViper> that's ottd+cargodest? 13:58:51 <DjViper> rolled? 13:59:07 *** penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 13:59:14 <glx> cargodest is not a patch, it's a "branch" 13:59:23 <DjViper> ah okay 14:00:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: no, it's a very low speed track 14:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's still the same route that they built 150 years ago ;) 14:01:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and the geographic preconditions were not good for straight level track back then either ;) 14:02:05 <Rubidium> glx: next time it's better to show them http://www.openttd.org/download-cargodest (as that's easier and more useful for most people) 14:02:24 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 14:02:33 <glx> Rubidium: I don't know all pages ;) 14:02:41 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has joined #openttd 14:04:36 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: well .. but we finally need new ones. Munich-Berlin in 3 hours or so 14:05:26 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik that's one of the pre-war track records that is still not broken ;) 14:07:13 <Kloopy> Celestar: What revision is cargodest based on atm? 14:08:04 <glx> Kloopy: r14361 is the latest merge 14:08:08 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 14:08:13 <Kloopy> Thanks glx. 14:08:45 <Celestar> yeah 14:09:12 <Celestar> I'm off 14:09:22 <Celestar> SmatZ: did it work? 14:12:32 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bac9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:45 <fonso> hi 14:13:19 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:13:25 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 14:14:15 <fonso> is there an official opinion about diagonal leveling and demolishing? 14:14:33 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:37 <Eddi|zuHause> as official as any other opinion... 14:14:45 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 14:14:50 <fonso> I'd still like to see it in trunk and if I knew what you think is missing, I'd fix it 14:14:54 <Brianetta> It's commonly regarded as not possible. 14:15:02 <fonso> I have an implementation 14:15:15 <Brianetta> in which case, it might become possible. 14:15:21 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:56 <fonso> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=38148&st=0&sk=t&sd=a 14:16:16 <fonso> Actually that's 3, as there was some argument on how it should be done 14:16:49 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:17:28 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-232.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 14:17:30 <fonso> They all work fine and I'd prefer the java style iterators, but the c++ style iterators or the macros would also be OK for me. 14:20:08 <fonso> peter1138 - you were the last to comment on the diagonal levelling and demolishing patch(es). Is there anything I can do to get any of them into trunk? 14:20:41 <Brianetta> If you want it into trunk, you need ot talk to the maintainers. 14:20:49 <fonso> I just tries 14:21:02 <Brianetta> Since they're here, but not talking, I'd suggest asking later. 14:21:04 <fonso> s/tries/tried/ 14:21:14 <fonso> as always 14:21:21 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37D341.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 14:21:31 <Brianetta> Alternatively, you could try doing something with FlySpray 14:21:55 <fonso> oh, right - I forgot about that. 14:23:11 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:36 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:23 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-183.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:08 *** Xerres [~Mewes@d-206-53-71-234.cpe.metrocast.net] has joined #openttd 14:40:23 <fonso> here you are: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2320 14:41:08 <Brianetta> I'm sure some people will find it very useful. 14:41:31 *** ben_goodger_ is now known as ben_goodger 14:41:32 <fonso> yes, and they have already expressed that a month ago 14:51:53 <glx> fonso: thanks for the translation for FS#2319 :) 14:52:19 <fonso> no problem, any more french (or german for that matter) around? 14:52:47 <glx> but it was not really needed ;) 14:59:01 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-26.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 14:59:10 *** DJNekkid [~chatzilla@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 15:00:37 <DJNekkid> is there any way to run openttd in a som kind of debug way? i got a crash ... 15:00:47 <DJNekkid> reproduceable as well 15:00:49 <DJNekkid> :) 15:01:08 <fonso> I'd suggest a debugger, like gdb 15:01:36 <DJNekkid> that works in windows? 15:02:01 <fonso> Microsoft offers a debugger as part of visual studio 15:02:08 <fonso> but I don't know what it's called 15:02:13 <fonso> or you can use mingw 15:02:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7662A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:02 <DJNekkid> well, it's on a precompiled binary ... 15:03:08 <fonso> oh 15:03:19 <fonso> you'll have to recompile with debug signals 15:03:30 <Rubidium> DJNekkid: precompiled by who? 15:03:49 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 15:04:16 <DJNekkid> celestar i guess ... it's in the cargodest branch 15:04:25 <DJNekkid> not sure if it's related to that tho 15:05:05 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F410.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:07 <DJNekkid> i got a sign, and when i edit it, remove all letters, and press enter it crashes 15:05:25 <Rubidium> oh.. that's fixed in trunk already 15:05:34 <DJNekkid> oki... :) 15:05:57 <DJNekkid> so it's an "old" bug :) 15:06:11 <Yexo> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2318 <- fixed 3 days ago 15:06:54 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577AFED7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:06:59 <DJNekkid> thats why i ask here before i post anything there :) 15:07:00 <petererer> Hmm, that hg log command in findversion.sh seems to take a while. 15:07:09 <petererer> cargodest.hg$ time hg log -r 1b7af927:0 -k "svn" -l 1 --template "{desc}\n" "src" 15:07:13 <petererer> real 0m7.794s 15:07:14 <petererer> :o 15:07:42 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@bib-theater33.hku.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:09:41 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:09:41 *** welshdragon [~mark@client-81-109-209-197.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 15:09:47 <welshdragon> afternoon all 15:12:28 <welshdragon> how do i build openttd onto a usb flashdrive? 15:12:53 <davis-> :i 15:13:04 <petererer> You copy it onto the drive. 15:13:12 <petererer> That is all. 15:13:33 <welshdragon> aah, that's cool 15:14:01 <welshdragon> luckily it's a 4gb drive, so it can fit ratker a lot in 15:17:19 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:17:42 <Belugas> i think building on a flash would take eons to complete 15:19:22 <welshdragon> Belugas: i weill tell you how long it took 15:20:07 <welshdragon> i might also try to snaffle some free pen drives from somewhere, put openttd on them and thn send them to people 15:20:10 <thvdburgt> Just a random thought of mine: Isn't it silly the {road/rail/tram}set is included in the bridge sprites? Now the opengfx is comming along nicely isn't it time to seperate split them? This would make life easier for artists. 15:22:01 <thvdburgt> Because there are not anymore colors in the 8bit pallet (are there?) A second sprite showing the location of the road on the bridge could be used. When this sprite is not available you can fall back to the old behaviour. 15:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Peter1138/Roadtypes <- read this 15:26:15 <thvdburgt> I don't see how that is relevant, isn't that just a way to assign labels to road which can be used to allow or disallow certain vehicles on it? 15:26:35 <Yexo> no, it also split the sprites 15:28:38 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be useful to read the Railtypes section also 15:28:40 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d51A43482.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:31:05 <thvdburgt> ah 15:32:51 <petererer> Hmm, 15 degrees C... seems reasonable for a harddrive :) 15:33:54 <thvdburgt> "Track overlays for junctions and PBS" What are the slope pieces used for? 15:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have some °C spare. would you take them? :p 15:34:04 <welshdragon> hmm, installed openttd, but it needs the files from transport tycoon deluxe cd to run 15:34:15 <welshdragon> and i don't have those 15:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> thvdburgt: uphill tracks? 15:35:08 <thvdburgt> Aren't the underlay sprites used for that, they should be drawn *with track* 15:36:39 <petererer> thvdburgt, PBS on slopes, basically. 15:37:48 <thvdburgt> how are these track different than normal tracks? 15:41:03 <Prof_Frink> welshdragon: 3407 15:42:59 <thvdburgt> Is there any documentation on how the bridge sprites will look like with the system? 15:43:03 <Brianetta> welshdragon: You can't play then. 15:43:40 <Belugas> thvdburgt, hopefully, there will be no difference 15:44:44 <thvdburgt> This would off course be better for backwards compatibly but how can you check which part of the bridge sprite to overlay with the road/rail/... ? 15:45:15 <Brianetta> thvdburgt: It's always the same 15:45:16 <Belugas> magic! 15:45:21 <thvdburgt> welshdragon, you can try this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=727224#p727224 15:45:45 <thvdburgt> Brianetta, ? 15:46:48 <Brianetta> thvdburgt: The track. It's always in the same place. 15:47:44 <thvdburgt> Do bridges have underlay and overlay sprites? 15:48:10 <Brianetta> Yes. Otherwise vehicles wouldn't go through lattice girder bridges, etc 15:48:41 <thvdburgt> true, it is clear now :) 15:48:42 <Brianetta> It's the blitter's job to draw them properly. 15:50:32 <Brianetta> OK, I'm off home to pack my rucksack. 15:50:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 15:52:40 <Prof_Frink> Rucksack, yes. 15:52:40 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:40 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:47 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:52:49 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:54:14 <petererer> Hmm? 16:11:04 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ad5.virnxx14.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:11:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 16:26:54 *** seba [seba@84-255-203-82.static.t-2.net] has joined #openttd 16:27:24 <seba> anybody for a coop play? 16:27:25 <seba> :) 16:27:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fef10.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:28:45 <Yexo> seba: try #openttdcoop 16:29:49 <seba> tnx 16:29:51 *** seba [seba@84-255-203-82.static.t-2.net] has left #openttd [] 16:37:50 <petererer> You can play coop without them... 16:37:59 <petererer> They don't have a monopoly on it :) 16:38:12 *** letto [~letto@86.120.71.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:59 <Belugas> wow... a fund_town patch that does not involve copying lots of code... 16:41:39 <Belugas> just don[t know how good the code is, from a quick glance, but it sure feels cleaner than the previous approach 16:42:24 <Belugas> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=99525 16:42:27 * Rubidium fears a desync (without looking at the patch) 16:42:33 <Belugas> forgot the link :) 16:42:49 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:08 <Belugas> could be, Rubidium, i've not made a good and deep reading 16:43:18 <Rubidium> yes, it desyncs 16:43:21 *** penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:39 <Rubidium> CreateTownName is the "culprit" 16:43:46 *** Zippy [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:28 <Belugas> so... one approach cold be to move it out of the command and put it as a condition to actually finalize the construction 16:47:48 <Belugas> or maybe force the user to enter a "valid" name 16:48:06 <Belugas> or even, why not, use the player's name to compose the town's name 16:48:09 <Belugas> dunno 16:48:11 <Belugas> just wild ideas 16:49:08 <Rubidium> Belugas: yup, but I've said that eons ago; the other patch "fixed" that desync issue by completely copying the CmdBuildTown function and move the CreateTownName out of one of them and this duplication was my only reason to be against the patch (and the author has been made aware of that by me) 16:50:14 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:51:17 <Belugas> can be easily fixed, i think 16:52:03 <Rubidium> it for sure could've been easily fixed 16:52:31 <Belugas> lack of will, bruised ego...who knows 16:53:02 <Belugas> actual p1 and p2 can be easily combined on only one param 16:53:18 <Belugas> so the other can be used to receive the name part already formed 16:55:13 <Belugas> mmh 16:55:19 <Belugas> time's up for me 17:00:02 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:02:28 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:21 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:03:32 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:04:37 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 17:06:38 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:09:18 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F9CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DB7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:27:36 *** Zippy is now known as penfold 17:28:51 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry 17:32:39 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... CivIV: Colonization comes with boost headers... 17:40:59 <fjb> :-) 17:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i must admit, CivIV is the most open proprietary game i have come across yet 17:45:34 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 17:45:34 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:38 <hylje> civiv uses boost for hooking python into it 17:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i know ;) 17:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... but it hangs on the intro videos... 17:47:14 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet617.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14402 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): 17:48:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-26 17:45:50 17:48:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 3 fixed by Necrolyte (3) 17:48:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 1 fixed, 8 changed by josesun (9) 17:52:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:52:20 <Wolf01> hello 17:54:17 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:06:07 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... now it hangs on starting a game... 18:06:12 <Eddi|zuHause> something is not right... 18:08:29 <Bjarni> are you trying it in wine or something? 18:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> where else would i be trying it? 18:09:36 <Bjarni> virtualbox, dualboot, another computer 18:10:17 *** lobstar_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:10:20 <Bjarni> do you know if it works in wine? 18:10:28 <Bjarni> I mean if other people managed to get it working 18:10:40 <ccfreak2k> One person did. 18:10:47 <Eddi|zuHause> civ4+bts worked 18:10:51 <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: poke orudge 18:10:58 <Prof_Frink> He's off to wineconf. 18:10:58 <Bjarni> NO 18:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> colonization is only out since today ;) 18:11:22 <Bjarni> I'm not going to do whatever Prof_Frink fancies 18:11:35 <Bjarni> he might think I fancy him >_< 18:12:07 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:19 *** Zorn [zorn@g224106253.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:12:24 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> colonization is only out since today ;) <-- actually I started wondering "did it already get out? I didn't notice" 18:14:59 <Eddi|zuHause> none of the reports on appdb seem to match my problem 18:18:57 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad00eb9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:18 *** Zorni [zorn@e177239170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:20 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b7.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:20:17 *** welshdragon [~mark@client-81-109-209-197.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: back later] 18:23:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the animations seem to be extremely slow 18:27:35 *** tvdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:27:35 *** thvdburgt [~thvdburgt@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:36 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g230224046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:33:33 *** Ben_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:39:05 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-181-26.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:37 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-132-206.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 18:40:04 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179219187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:04 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:40:32 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:50 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:37 *** lobstar_MB [~michielbr@5ED01DAD.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:51:39 <SmatZ> Celestar: I fail to compile cargodest trunk in gcc 2.95 ... http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/cargo295.routing_o.log 18:51:50 <SmatZ> /usr/include/boost/iterator/iterator_adaptor.hpp:218: (use -ftemplate-depth-NN to increase the maximum) 18:51:53 <SmatZ> hmm I will try it 18:52:14 *** Ben_ is now known as Sacro 18:52:39 <SmatZ> yeah, CFLAGS="-ftemplate-depth-99" compiles now :) 18:54:42 *** michi_cc [6a090ac73e@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 18:54:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 18:58:31 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 18:58:54 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g230224046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:58:54 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g230224046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:55 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:58:59 <Kloopy> What's the maximum length of a bridge? 18:59:14 <Wolf01> 255 18:59:17 <Kloopy> Thanks 18:59:47 <frosch123> can be lower because of advanced settings or newgrf though 19:00:08 <Kloopy> ok 19:00:15 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 19:02:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14403 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14384): The condition was too restrictive. 19:04:06 <Rubidium> actually 100 is closer to the maximum than 255 19:04:51 <frosch123> "long enough" is even closer :) 19:11:00 *** mortal`` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:11:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14404 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Change [FS#2176]: don't make the town flatten land unconditionally when build on slopes is turned on. Based on a patch by Eddi. 19:15:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-141-115.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yay! 19:17:23 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:26:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14405 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2289]: Correct handling of selling free wagons while the following vehicle is an engine (i.e. a new train is created). 19:27:23 <FauxFaux> Ooh, is it applying people's patches o'clock? You know you want to do some of mine. :) 19:28:08 <Rubidium> no, it's reduce bugcount o'clock 19:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't understand it... there's absolutely no reason why the animations should be that kind of slow... and bts shows the same effect now :( 19:28:23 <FauxFaux> I filed bugd with them in, so it's clearly the same thing! 19:42:12 <fonso> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1793 is a good address for reducing bug count 19:43:31 * petererer is busy playing on his cargodest server by himself :o 19:44:09 * Eddi|zuHause is busy updating wine 19:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> although i don't think that will actually help 19:45:12 * Belugas is busy working 19:45:28 * fonso is bored 19:45:46 <Rubidium> go fix FS#119 ;) 19:46:46 <Alberth> Pointing people to #119 seems like a favorite hobby of yours, Rubidium 19:46:49 <Belugas> fs1793... such an IMPORTANT bug :S 19:47:07 <Belugas> because FS119 is a pain in the butt 19:47:20 <fonso> I'm bored, you know ... and I like to set my clock by those trains 19:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> interesting, that actually DID help ;) 19:47:55 <Alberth> Belugas: I know, I read the description, and how hard you have been trying to find the problem 19:48:02 <Rubidium> Alberth: yeah, because it none of the devs really has a clue how to fix it 19:48:35 <Rubidium> and many people tried fixing FS#119 19:48:40 <Belugas> mmh... maybe we can launch a contest : whomever provides CLEAN and ADEQUATE fix will become a dev! 19:49:01 <petererer> Or gets a beer 19:49:20 <Belugas> (the add does not mention if it willbe a permanent situation) 19:49:26 <petererer> :D 19:49:26 <Belugas> but as for the beer... 19:49:33 <petererer> Permanent beer? 19:49:42 <Belugas> i think i'll get TONS of it tonight! 19:54:42 * Belugas reads back the proposal for the context and add "...ADEQUATE fix for >>>>FS119<<<<<..." 19:56:59 <petererer> s/ADEQUATE/PERFECT/ 19:57:15 <petererer> Woo, I'm making money :D 19:57:57 <petererer> Though Pikka's build costs GRF is a bit odd, as it makes roads about 3 times the price of rail. 19:58:26 <petererer> Er, make that six. 19:58:42 <Rubidium> ofcourse... tarmac is made of something oil-ish and that price is going through the roof lately 20:01:30 *** penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:32 <fonso> smatz, what do you mean with this comment: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/119#comment1378 ? The image shown isn't impossible to render. Can you give me an example of an impossible situation? 20:07:23 <Rubidium> fonso: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1935/getfile/2746/fs1935a.sav 20:09:37 <fonso> interesting ... 20:10:59 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 20:11:51 <frosch123> fonso: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2078 explains in detail what is happening 20:17:27 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn196-117.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:18:17 *** Aylomen [~a@DSL01.83.171.146.197.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:21 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@87.94.117.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:29 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:23:12 *** mikl [~mikl@0x5550c003.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:24:00 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:51 <fonso> does this problem also exist with the opengl blitter? 20:30:53 <fonso> As I get it, the sprite sorter can't consider all sprites on the map and so it may miss some that might be related to the ones being drawn, resulting in flickering and glitches. 20:30:58 <Rubidium> is anyone actually using that blitter? 20:31:02 <fonso> not me 20:31:08 <fonso> that's why I'm asking 20:31:26 <fonso> Opengl could do that without lots of manual sorting 20:32:26 *** elmex [~elmex@e180069006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:29 *** elmex [~elmex@e180069006.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 20:36:24 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: icebears... take care of them!] 20:37:11 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5DBB5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:49:53 <sexten> anyone of you got a quick-link to the TTD-graphic files?:) 20:50:07 <Rubidium> d:\ 20:50:16 *** mortal`` is now known as mortal 20:50:30 <Rubidium> or rather, to be more correct: file://d:/ 20:51:56 <Rubidium> in other words: giving such links isn't allowed in this channel 20:53:16 <sexten> I'm sorry, I didn't know it wasn't allowed 20:53:49 <Rubidium> it's similar to asking for a download of Windows Vista 20:56:35 <glx> would be silly to want to download vista 20:56:59 <Tekky> hehe, yes, one should not compare TTD with Windows Vista :) 20:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i could tell you 20:57:29 <Belugas> I think the point is rather "Who wold want to download Vista" 20:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but then i'd have to shoot you 20:58:04 <Rubidium> Tekky: why? As TTD it's incompatible with it's predecessor and there are better alternatives 20:58:38 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BCDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:48 <Tekky> Rubidium: hmmm, ok, you've got a point, there :) 20:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... most interesting about colonization is the new method of getting founding fathers 21:00:45 <frosch123> [22:33] <fonso> Opengl could do that without lots of manual sorting <- opengl cannot help you at all, unless _you_ provide z values for all pixels of all ever released newgrfs of the past and the future 21:02:28 <fonso> I'm still digging through the source. So the actual problem is that there are no z values for the sprites but only "in front of" and "behind" relations? 21:02:49 <fonso> I don't quite get how it actually works yet ... 21:03:14 <frosch123> fonso: open your favorite save game and press ctrl-B to get a first impression of what bounding boxes are 21:04:16 <fonso> yes, that's about what I expected them to be 21:05:15 * Belugas goes home . good weekend 21:05:22 <Rubidium> have fun Belugas 21:05:22 <frosch123> so you have x, y, and z world coordinate, but x and y are not directly related to screen coordinates 21:05:38 <frosch123> night belugas 21:05:57 <Belugas> bye 21:05:59 * Belugas is gone 21:06:04 <fonso> yes 21:06:12 <fonso> z can alter that 21:06:17 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80FB9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:06:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:06:43 <fonso> and planes on airports have a different bounding box than planes flying ... 21:07:13 <fonso> why is that? 21:07:32 <frosch123> and when you give them the the same big bounding box on floor they will glitch with the airport buildings and everything else next to the airport 21:08:18 <fonso> ah 21:08:50 <fonso> so there are parts of vehicles drawn outside their bounding boxes and we can't detect if that collides. 21:08:51 <fonso> OK 21:09:02 <fonso> but that's not all of the story, is it? 21:09:48 <frosch123> when you have read fs#2078 you should already know a lot 21:11:50 <fonso> I have, but I have only understood half of it. 21:12:28 <fonso> Somehow the bounding boxes can still get mixed up if you keep the drawing inside them 21:12:39 <fonso> And that's due to the sorting of the boxes 21:12:54 <fonso> But why the sorting fails I don't get 21:13:14 <frosch123> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2078/getfile/3015/SpriteSorterDilemma.png <- did you solve that exercise? 21:13:45 <fonso> of course it's impossible, but the errors we see are much more trivial. 21:14:35 <frosch123> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2078/getfile/3013/bb_example.png <- the error you see is that one: the plane is red, the foundation is green, blue is missing 21:15:37 <fonso> so the problem is that the airport tarmac doesn't have a bounding box? 21:16:51 <frosch123> the problem is that that the aircraft sprite extents over foundations, which are not under the aircraft BB 21:21:17 <fonso> That's still the same story. The aircraft is partly drawn outside its BB. Whenever there is a different bounding box at those parts (the ground is always drawn first and without one, as I get it), we don't know it has to be drawn behind the aircraft. Is that correct now? 21:21:20 <frosch123> so either you have to modify the red or the green BB, or add a blue BB somewhere 21:21:42 <fonso> yes 21:21:59 *** DjViper [~freenode@084202244193.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:03 <fonso> make the aircraft larger, merge the foundations or define the runway 21:22:32 <frosch123> yes, you could add a transparent bounding box of height 0 which covers the whole airport 21:22:57 <frosch123> that might work for rectangular airports with flat surface 21:23:18 <frosch123> so if newgrf_ports will never become reality, it might work 21:23:28 *** bleepy [bleepy@5adad4b7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:47 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad103ca.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:23:55 <fonso> Yes, that's all not a real solution. I know 21:24:10 <fonso> but did I get all of the problem now? 21:24:44 <frosch123> seems so 21:24:50 <fonso> nice. thanks 21:25:05 <Rubidium> but that's only for airports, right? 21:25:23 <frosch123> every glitch needs its own fix :) 21:25:27 <Rubidium> true 21:25:43 <frosch123> btw. I have already fixed the glitches with inclined foundations in one of my working copies :) 21:26:18 <frosch123> just need to do a proper testing of its implications 21:26:33 <frosch123> but at least I found what I was doing wrong all the time :) 21:26:56 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit] 21:27:56 <fonso> how did you fix it? 21:30:24 *** Sacro|SSL [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:30:39 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/inclinedglitches.diff <- making the BB of inclinded foundations more like the tunnels are - just the other way around 21:31:22 <frosch123> maybe the same could be done for bridge ramps 21:32:06 *** penfold [~p@cpc1-hem18-0-0-cust608.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:32:07 <frosch123> but bridges are very sensitive 21:32:57 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:35:12 *** Sacro|SSL is now known as Sacro 21:35:25 <frosch123> hmm, over 300 revisions old, what happened to time? 21:45:00 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:54:36 <fjb> An USB-Drive disguising as a CD-ROM... now that is new. 22:01:19 <Wolf01> 'night 22:01:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host213-160-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:01:50 <Bjarni> I once had a PCMCIA ethernet card that the computer identified as an unformatted disk (flash?) 22:01:57 *** fonso [~fonso@brln-d9bac9ee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:11 <Bjarni> since it did that from the very start I got it replaced on warranty 22:02:59 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:11 <Bjarni> here is the best part: when I handed it in, they wanted the repairshop to fix it. Somehow I think when a computer sees such a small card as a disk instead of an I/O card, then it's unfixable 22:04:29 <Bjarni> the repairshop gave up more or less right away 22:05:34 <fjb> :-) 22:06:11 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-156-59-75.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:20 <fjb> This thing is strage. It's a SanDisk with U3 (heard about it today for the first time) functionallity. 22:06:36 <fjb> It comes with preinstalled Skype. 22:06:36 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host86-156-59-75.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:07:01 <Bjarni> I guess I did a pretty good deal because I bought it at almost half price because it was lightly used and they still provided full warranty like it was new. They didn't have any more used ones so they had to give me a brand new one 22:07:24 <fjb> Some kind of Sudoku, a trieal version of some McAffee product... 22:07:35 <Bjarni> this was in 1996... ethernet cards was expensive, specially with PCMCIA interface 22:07:46 <fjb> Sounds like a good deal. 22:08:31 <fjb> This USB- dirve also looks like a good deal. 2 2GB-Drives bundled for 10â¬. 22:09:01 <fjb> Sandisks lists them at about each. 22:09:36 <Bjarni> USB flash disks? 22:09:48 <fjb> Yes. 22:10:17 <Bjarni> if that is the price today then I would consider leaving the MB era :) 22:10:19 <fjb> Downside is it has a big, slowly flashing LED. 22:10:35 <fjb> Oh, 2GB, sorry. :-) 22:10:52 <Bjarni> there is a 128 MB flash lying around here 22:11:28 <fjb> I'm having some 64MB things here. 22:11:50 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.203] has joined #openttd 22:11:51 <fjb> Bought that 2 drives at the local store today. 22:12:01 <Bjarni> I once saw a 16 MB flash 22:12:10 <Bjarni> it was run over by a car on a parking lot 22:12:24 <Bjarni> made me wonder if it was on purpose :) 22:12:36 <fjb> I have a combined 32MB flash and 2 port USB hub. 22:12:54 <fjb> :-) 22:13:52 <Bjarni> hmm 22:13:53 <fjb> But why is the LED that big and bright and flashing? 22:14:07 <Bjarni> I can get a 2 GB flash for around 7⬠22:14:19 <Bjarni> but I have no idea if A-Data is any good 22:14:28 <Bjarni> in fact I have never seen that name before 22:14:28 <frosch123> fjb: get some tape and mask it 22:14:36 <fjb> A-Data is cheap, but usually not that bad. 22:14:54 <fjb> frosch123: I will burry it in a wall... 22:15:29 <fjb> But 2GB Sandisk for 5⬠can not be that bad. 22:15:41 <Bjarni> wow 22:15:52 <Bjarni> there is a Kingston here for 5⬠22:15:55 <Bjarni> still 2 GB 22:15:57 <fjb> 2 x 2GB for 10â¬. 22:16:18 <fjb> Without shipping costs... 22:16:52 <Bjarni> lol 22:17:00 <Bjarni> shipping is the same as the memory stick :D 22:17:53 <fjb> They had plenty of them at the lowest part of the shelf. At eye hight they had 2GB drives for 18⬠each. 22:17:59 <Bjarni> 15,8⬠for the 8 GB version 22:18:15 <Bjarni> now why would somebody want 8 GB anyway :) 22:19:02 <frosch123> Bjarni: you do not have to know how to delete files 22:19:09 <fjb> Why would somebody not have 8GB? Better too much than the few. 22:19:53 <fjb> 8GB is not that much today. 22:20:06 <Bjarni> there is a 64 GB version too o_O 22:20:35 <Bjarni> when I bought mine, I decided on 128 MB because 256 was huge and really expensive 22:20:36 <fjb> Oh, I could carry my home directory on that one. 22:20:56 <Bjarni> 64 GB is enough for a complete system 22:21:30 <fjb> Even 8GB could carry a complete system. 22:22:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F156.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:27 <fjb> Hm, I could install the base system (without swap) on that 2GB drive. 22:23:59 <Bjarni> the 128 MB one is enough for a complete system 22:24:11 <Bjarni> I once had a complete system on a floppy 22:24:37 <SmatZ> [00:21:30] <fjb> Even 8GB could carry a complete system. <=== not Vista 22:24:48 <Bjarni> hehe 22:25:06 <Bjarni> I think 8 GB is enough for a full install of OSX 10.5 22:25:13 <SmatZ> :-) 22:25:17 <Bjarni> including all the optional apps 22:25:26 <fjb> SmatZ: Who talks about Vista? :-) 22:25:33 <Bjarni> but maybe excluding Xcode 22:25:47 <SmatZ> :-) 22:26:11 <Bjarni> I don't know... I haven't really experienced with getting OSX to be as small as possible 22:27:04 <Bjarni> http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/25/185252 <-- combine the 8 GB one with this device and you can get a working mac on a lot of public computers 22:27:48 <frosch123> Bjarni: You should revert to 360K 2S/DD disks. You can load them completly into 640K memory and copy them to another disk in one go :p 22:27:53 <Bjarni> I think it would violate the EULA though 22:28:37 <Nite_Owl> An old DOS system would most definitely fit on a floppy 22:29:03 <Nite_Owl> Provided you remember your DOS commands 22:29:19 <Bjarni> one of the smallest systems I have seen would be a floppy containing MacOS and virtual PC 22:29:46 <Bjarni> the MacOS was stripped of all unneeded stuff and virtual PC was used instead of finder 22:30:16 <Bjarni> this meant that the mac could emulate the x86 instruction set with no background tasks running 22:30:58 <frosch123> [00:30] <Nite_Owl> An old DOS system would most definitely fit on a floppy <- quite surprising for a _D_OS 22:31:56 <Bjarni> I was once asked how MacOS and OS2 were related 22:32:13 <Bjarni> somehow they had to be more or less the same... they both had OS in the name 22:32:41 <fjb> And they are operating systems for computers. 22:36:23 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:39:51 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet617.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 22:41:30 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BCDD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:44:56 <Nite_Owl> Wait - quite surprising that it would or quite surprising that it would not 22:48:37 <frosch123> as surprising as a TOS fitting on a tape 22:53:56 <Nite_Owl> I ran DOS commands off of floppies all of the time. It may not have been the complete, robust system but it was a working system. Old boot disk did the same thing. They just enough of the OS to make your machine work and let you execute a limited number of commands. 22:54:27 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:55:15 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:56:06 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fef10.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:13 <SmatZ> Celestar: http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff compiles 22:56:41 <glx> SmatZ: as you may have noticed, he's not here ;) 22:59:52 <SmatZ> glx: yeah :) I hope someone will say I told him that :) 22:59:55 <SmatZ> or so... 23:00:05 <SmatZ> DorpsGek misses @tell functionality :( 23:00:30 <SmatZ> @tell Celestar http://www.fvfischer.de/typedef1.diff compiles 23:00:30 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Error: I haven't seen Celestar, I'll let you do the telling. 23:00:35 <SmatZ> :-/ 23:01:10 <glx> you can send him a mail 23:01:48 * petererer has a few 4MB flash cards... 23:04:05 <SmatZ> petererer: hard to say anything nice about that :( maybe... they will have a historical value soon :) 23:04:32 <SmatZ> like cameras storing photos on a 1,44 MB diskette 23:07:01 <Nite_Owl> I still have a working 100MB zip drive with several working disks 23:08:32 <petererer> SmatZ, they still have a use. 23:09:37 <SmatZ> petererer: makes me happy... I really don't like older hardware lying around unused :-/ 23:10:15 <SmatZ> Nite_Owl: so do I :) 23:11:33 <SmatZ> but the prices of 100MB ZIP media were insane ... 20-30 Euro (or USD that time) ... 23:11:43 <SmatZ> though it was well before Euro :) 23:12:05 <SmatZ> maybe 15-20... 23:12:26 <petererer> I guess these cards cost a lot back in the day... 23:13:16 <Nite_Owl> REALLY - I here am thinking I am the last person on Earth still using them. There is a store near by that still sells the disks. They are expensive compared to CD's or DVD's. 23:13:47 <petererer> Do people even bother with CDRs these days? 23:14:42 <Nite_Owl> If you want to record music to play in the CD player in your car you do 23:15:21 <petererer> Modern systems seem to accept SD cards too. 23:15:55 <Nite_Owl> True but a lot of people still have older cars 23:16:18 <SmatZ> :-) it's always better not to buy anything, or you may be angered by how low prices are two years later... 23:16:43 <petererer> Nite_Owl, I'm just going to " ... " at that statement. 23:16:45 <petererer> ... 23:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> . . . 23:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i wish i had an older car... 23:18:50 <Nite_Owl> My car is 8 years old and I have no plans to replace it anytime soon 23:19:39 <petererer> Car age has absolutely no bearing on the capabilities of the stereo that is installed. 23:19:58 <Brianetta> My car is negative many years old 23:20:02 <Brianetta> and can drive itself 23:20:17 <Brianetta> Since it doesn't exist yet, the performance of its stereo is... wanting. 23:20:48 <Nite_Owl> True - you can replace the stereo but if it sounds good and the media is still available why bother 23:21:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i have used a CDR exactly once 23:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> to put a knoppix on it... 23:22:37 <Nite_Owl> Plus I have a huge collection of music CD's so the choice is an obvious one 23:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i have like two audio cds... 23:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't even know where they are... 23:25:36 <Nite_Owl> Just call me old fashioned. Heck I even have some cassette tapes and vinyl albums stashed away somewhere 23:26:31 <Nite_Owl> Dinner is served - L8r all 23:26:42 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-75-74-51-51.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 23:27:53 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: goodnight oftc] 23:27:56 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-0-83-170.leed.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:44:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-141-115.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:22 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 23:47:27 <ln> buona sera, señoritas