Config
Log for #openttd on 29th October 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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02:49:48  <bleepy> blah
02:50:21  <Aali> seconded
02:53:40  <bleepy> marvellous, verdict carried
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02:54:55  <Aali> finally figured out why my noai build is segfaulting
02:55:40  <bleepy> yeah you lost me, I play the game, that's as far as I get
02:55:54  <Aali> its an old memory corruption bug, one of my patches is doing it, and i dont know which one
02:55:58  <Aali> fair enough
02:56:39  <thingwath> it isn't hard to tell why something is segfaulting... simply it tries to use memory it doesn't have :o)
02:57:06  <Aali> only happens with RVs so i kinda forgot about it since i hardly ever use those
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02:58:02  <Aali> thingwath: that doesn't help debugging, though :P
02:58:26  <thingwath> no, not much
02:58:34  <Aali> you kind-of need to know that its the rs variable in ClearSlot that ends up containing garbage
02:59:33  <thingwath> valgrind will tell, maybe. :o)
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03:01:58  <Aali> hmm, i can't seem to be able to reproduce it in a debug build
03:02:06  <Aali> thats my biggest problem right now
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03:04:07  <thingwath> well, good luck :)
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03:04:28  <Aali> thank you, i'm going to need it
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07:59:54  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Flex@89.246.160.*] by petern
07:59:54  *** HerzogDeXtEr was kicked from #openttd by petern [come back when your pogo's fixed]
08:04:03  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Flex@89.246.*] by petern
08:04:11  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*Flex@89.246.160.*] by petern
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08:04:37  <petern> hah
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08:49:01  <Celestar> heh.
08:49:12  <Celestar> $BOSS just forgot my name :/
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08:50:17  <Wolf01> hello
08:50:30  <Celestar> hi :)
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09:00:15  * dih hugs Celestar
09:00:57  <TrueBrain> Celestar: nasty
09:01:17  <TrueBrain> petern: I am happy to see I am not the only one who gets annoyed by it :)
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09:12:37  <Celestar> TrueBrain: He just called up. Me: "Good morning". Him: "Good morning, er... er... er... er... er.... Is $OTHER_COLLEUAGE here?"
09:14:14  * Celestar awards his boss another suck-point
09:17:39  <dih> Celestar: do they work the same way as the 'treuepunkte' in flenzburg?
09:25:10  <Rubidium> Celestar: if I look at that conversation you failed to resolve $BOSS too, so why should $BOSS resolve $GUY_THAT_SAID_GOOD_MORNING?
09:27:21  <Celestar> Rubidium: I am able to resolve $BOOS :)
09:27:24  <Celestar> $BOSS
09:27:33  <Celestar> :P
09:27:38  <Celestar> dih: yes, about.
09:31:04  <Celestar> dih: how many Flensburg-points ya got?
09:34:45  * dih has none
09:34:49  <dih> :-(
09:34:50  <dih> :-P
09:35:03  <Celestar> neither have I :P
09:35:07  <Celestar> (at the moment) :P
09:35:19  <dih> let's have some fone
09:35:22  <dih> eh...
09:35:23  <dih> fun
09:35:37  <dih> 2 weeks - who gets the most :-D
09:36:05  <Celestar> haha
09:36:06  <Celestar> yeah :)
09:36:08  <Celestar> who pays?
09:36:17  <Celestar> the one who loses has to pay all the tickets?
09:46:37  <dih> hehe
09:46:57  <Celestar> it is pretty difficult to get points
09:47:20  <dih> existance of a driverslisence is required for the beginning, of one loeses it in the time of those 2 weeks one can still continue
09:47:29  <dih> Celestar: it is pretty easy!
09:48:04  <dih> as soon as you are 26 KM/h over the sweed limit on outer-town roads
09:48:07  <dih> (not moterways)
09:48:23  <dih> *speed
09:48:41  <Celestar> yeah
09:48:51  <Celestar> but you need to find some trooper who cares about that too :P
09:51:09  <dih> hehe
09:51:15  <dih> listen to the radio? :-D
09:53:13  <Rubidium> dih: next time use the right SI units ;)
09:54:44  <Rubidium> cause kelvin*mol/liter/hour doesn't make much sense ;)
09:55:54  <dih> hehe ;-)
09:56:01  <TrueBrain> oeh, my new screens arrived :)
09:56:05  <dih> YAY
10:04:41  <Celestar> TrueBrain: 22" Widescreens?
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10:06:50  * dih hates widescreen....
10:07:50  <TrueBrain> 2x 22" :p
10:08:57  <Celestar> dih: depends
10:09:16  <Celestar> dih: I don't hate them, as long as the vertical resolution is sufficient (i.e. > 1000)
10:09:53  <Celestar> I just don't like the 1280x800 crap or so
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10:11:11  <dih> na - dislike widescreen
10:11:16  <dih> simply just dont like them...
10:11:18  <TrueBrain> k .. need to boot into Windows, as KDE 3 screen detection SUCKS ASS
10:11:23  <dih> might be nice to watch dvd's etc.
10:11:45  <Celestar> dih: it's ok for displaying two pages of paper side-by-side :D
10:11:45  <dih> but 4:3 ratio is what i personally prefer
10:11:55  <Celestar> my laptop has 4:3
10:12:02  <dih> mine too
10:12:02  <Celestar> my workstation has 2x 5:4
10:12:10  * dih cringes
10:12:17  <TrueBrain> 2x 16:10 here now :p
10:12:42  <Celestar> :D
10:13:36  <TrueBrain> damn, it is big .. oh well, brb, Windows boot required :p
10:13:48  <Celestar> TrueBrain: ...
10:13:50  *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
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10:14:02  <Celestar> TrueBrain: screen detection works great on my suse installation ..
10:14:10  <petern> i want variable resolution too much to have lcds :(
10:14:10  <Celestar> must be a gentoo crappage
10:14:30  <Celestar> petern: just get some LCD with a proper interpolation
10:14:38  <petern> isn't screen detection a feature of x rather than kde?
10:14:50  <petern> also lcd colour is not as good
10:15:17  <Celestar> petern: those times are long gone (if you get a proper display)
10:15:27  * petern ponders a 19" 1280x1024 lcd
10:15:39  <petern> yeah, where proper mean expensive
10:16:04  <Celestar> not really
10:16:15  <Celestar> well depends on what you call "expensive"
10:16:37  <petern> i have a 21" crt to get rid of
10:16:40  <petern> it's just too big
10:17:29  <petern> 1600x900... well, i suppose that is actually 16:9, but it's not that common
10:20:53  <petern> Jun5choo
10:21:02  <petern> Hmm
10:21:07  <petern> that was the wrong window too :D
10:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i like 16:10 very much since i got it
10:22:50  <Celestar> petern: how much would you shell out for a new display?
10:24:23  <Celestar> 100? 300? 500?
10:24:29  <Celestar> UKP that is (=
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10:34:00  <TrueBrain> Celestar: screen detection fails here completely :p I have to manually ... make clear to him what I want ;)
10:34:13  <TrueBrain> 3360x1280 ... how nice :p Damn, this is huge ...
10:34:52  <dih> uh....
10:34:55  <TrueBrain> now I need to get it off cloning, and make it true dualhead ...
10:34:58  <dih> nice res
10:35:04  <TrueBrain> 2x 1680x1280
10:35:13  <TrueBrain> euh
10:35:14  <TrueBrain> 1050
10:35:15  <TrueBrain> lol
10:35:23  <dih> hehe
10:35:34  <dih> that is what i dont like about widescreen ... one of the points
10:35:43  <dih> these os-so-odd vertical res
10:35:44  <TrueBrain> their size? :p
10:36:04  <dih> :-D
10:36:27  <TrueBrain> Gamma of -50, and screens are readable even in white ..
10:36:41  <TrueBrain> now dual head in KDE3 + X11 ... always a pain
10:36:55  <TrueBrain> xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 3360x1050)
10:36:57  * TrueBrain slaps computers
10:37:22  <dih> oi
10:37:25  <Rubidium> strange... my screen's bigger than that
10:37:32  <dih> no need to slap all of them just because your's is mucking up
10:38:14  <petern> Celestar, depends on the size ;p
10:39:21  <petern> hmm, 24" viewsonic, £149
10:39:45  <petern> 1920x1200
10:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i paid more for my screen than for my system
10:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause> around 300€ each
10:40:22  <Eddi|zuHause> plus some hard drives later on
10:40:28  <TrueBrain> my screens are now also more expensive then my system ;)
10:40:34  <Celestar> petern: http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=147262 <= that's your display :D
10:40:54  <petern> too expensive
10:40:55  <ln> does someone know a small tool that would show line count per function in a C++ file?
10:42:53  <petern> hmm, 562...
10:43:03  <petern> except it's 400 elsewhere
10:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces
10:44:09  <petern> although the better half would kill me
10:44:22  <Celestar> tell me about it ..
10:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> to inherit such expensive gear? any time :p
10:45:00  <petern> i need to buy a new oven
10:45:07  <petern> then i can buy anything i wan
10:45:08  <petern> +t
10:45:20  <Celestar> petern: then the 500 bucks for the LCD are measurement precision :P
10:45:20  <petern> however, i've yet to find an oven that'll fit in the space :(
10:45:29  <petern> bucks?
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10:46:00  <Celestar> money ..
10:46:01  <Celestar> :P
10:46:24  <petern> quid if you must
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10:49:21  <TrueBrain> xrandr is very good in multiple display support nowedays :)
10:49:57  <Celestar> hah
10:50:15  <Celestar> xfs_fsr is really really helpful :o
10:50:44  <Gekz> LIAR
10:51:20  <petern> fsr?
10:51:41  <Celestar> file system reorganizer
10:51:46  <Celestar> "defragger" for the winpeops
10:51:59  *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-175-103.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg]
10:53:08  <Gekz> lol.
10:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause> these "help" forums are always cool... "help, my hard disk is showing read errors" - "just defrag it!"
10:53:46  <petern> heh
10:54:04  <Celestar> hah
10:54:16  <TrueBrain> Celestar: isn't xfs doing that on the fly?
10:55:22  <Celestar> TrueBrain: it does so quite fine, unless you disk usage is very high.
10:55:28  <Celestar> TrueBrain: which happens here regularly
10:55:44  <Celestar> Filesystem             Size   Used  Avail Use% Mounted on
10:55:45  <Celestar> /dev/evms/lvm2/td/home 8.9T   8.6T   368G  96% /nfs/home
10:55:56  <TrueBrain> hehe :p
10:56:00  <Celestar> like so.
10:56:15  <TrueBrain> do we want to know how much porn you downloaded :p
10:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> my drives are always full...
10:56:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no matter what i do...
10:56:46  * Celestar slaps TrueBrain
10:57:10  <ln> 12:43 < Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a simple push down automaton to calculate the depth of the braces  <--- that's why i assume someone else has done it already, because it's simple.
10:57:32  * TrueBrain smilse :)
10:57:43  <TrueBrain> now all what I need, is some program that focuses on the application I am looking at :p
10:58:00  <TrueBrain> I now tend to miss which window I have active ... :p
10:58:39  <Eddi|zuHause> there are eye focus detection cameras
10:58:55  <Eddi|zuHause> just hook those into the mouse driver ;)
10:59:11  <Celestar> what's that to do with mice?
10:59:33  <Gekz> TrueBrain: get compiz
10:59:37  <Gekz> and turn on the ADHD module
10:59:38  <Gekz> :P
10:59:48  <Gekz> it focuses on a single window
11:00:24  <TrueBrain> lol
11:00:26  <TrueBrain> will consider that :p
11:00:26  <TrueBrain> haha
11:00:27  <Gekz> Celestar: control the mouse with your eyes :P
11:00:34  <Gekz> Celestar: it would get annoying though
11:00:41  <Gekz> with this cursor moving where you're trying to read
11:00:50  <Gekz> and moving your eyes rapidly to move this flicker of terd out of the way
11:00:52  <Gekz> every second
11:01:19  * Celestar prefers touchscreens
11:01:21  <Celestar> and keyboards
11:01:37  <TrueBrain> hmm
11:01:39  <TrueBrain> touchscreen
11:01:43  <TrueBrain> that would had been a good idea :p
11:02:40  <Gekz> would have
11:02:52  <Gekz> perfect present, not perfect past :P
11:03:15  <TrueBrain> and what did I tell you about that?
11:03:24  <Gekz> YOUR MODAL VERB WAS INCOMPATIBLE
11:03:26  <Gekz> WHAT WAS I TO DO?!
11:03:35  * Gekz cries
11:03:38  <TrueBrain> @kban Gekz 100 I can ban you
11:03:39  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] by DorpsGek
11:03:39  *** Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I can ban you]
11:04:33  <dih> lol
11:04:46  <Celestar> gna
11:04:47  <Celestar> ha
11:05:08  <TrueBrain> people should learn not to correct ever single english mistake we make .. it really is annoying :(
11:05:17  <dih> every :-D
11:05:19  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] by DorpsGek
11:05:28  *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
11:05:37  <TrueBrain> @kban dih 100 an other one bites the dust
11:05:38  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] by DorpsGek
11:05:38  <Gekz> Tits.
11:05:40  *** dih was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [an other one bites the dust]
11:05:45  <Gekz> TrueBrain: another.
11:05:56  <TrueBrain> @kban Gekz 3600 ...
11:05:58  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] by DorpsGek
11:05:58  *** Gekz was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [...]
11:06:07  <TrueBrain> that was REALLY stupid ..
11:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i wondered when you were going to flip :p
11:06:34  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you know me, doesn't take much/long ;)
11:07:20  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] by DorpsGek
11:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. $someone is taking my whole bandwidth again
11:07:24  *** dih [~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd
11:07:34  <TrueBrain> resolve($someone);
11:08:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Error: $someone is private
11:09:08  <dih> 12:08 <Gekz> tell him that Gekz says if you don't make mistakes, they dont have  to be corrected
11:09:39  <Rubidium> LOL!
11:09:54  <Rubidium> it is "don't"!
11:10:00  <Rubidium> the irony ;)
11:11:07  <dih> :-D
11:11:28  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:11:51  *** PandaTits [7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:12:06  <PandaTits> Good day.
11:12:46  <dih> what a nasty nick!
11:12:50  <Rubidium> dont think it's such a good day ;)
11:12:58  <PandaTits> It's not nasty
11:13:01  <PandaTits> It's _nasty_
11:13:23  <PandaTits> Like the smell of dog food at 4am
11:13:29  <PandaTits> it's _nasty_
11:14:01  * keyweed_ looks at PandaTits
11:14:33  <TrueBrain> lol @ Rubidium
11:14:33  <PandaTits> Do you do that often?
11:15:05  <dih> @echo [base 16 10 7b] [base 16 10 f3] [base 16 10 ce] [base 16 10  66]
11:15:09  <dih> :-(
11:15:21  <PandaTits> Bot fail.
11:17:01  <dih> would have been nothing else than your ip anyway :-P
11:17:24  <PandaTits> What is this IP that you speak of?
11:18:33  <dih> the one that is in hex in your username
11:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Intergalactic Parity is a measurement to identify any physical object in the galaxy by a unique number
11:19:40  <TrueBrain> I wonder if I should the fake-Gekz too ..
11:19:44  <TrueBrain> +ban
11:19:54  <dih> ;-)
11:20:18  <PandaTits> ...
11:20:48  <dih> ;-)
11:21:14  <TrueBrain> at least he understand we are talking about him
11:21:26  *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-97.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
11:21:32  <PandaTits> I don't have small tits.
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11:21:34  <dih> TrueBrain: /whois Gekz and /whois PandaTits
11:21:35  <PandaTits> if that's what you're getting at.
11:21:43  <dih> ;-)
11:21:44  <dih> :-P
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11:26:14  <TrueBrain> bah, ftp.nl.debian.org isn't responding :(
11:26:25  <PandaTits> It doesn't have panda tits.
11:26:49  <TrueBrain> @kban PandaTits 3600 you just annoy me
11:26:50  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com] by DorpsGek
11:26:50  *** PandaTits was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you just annoy me]
11:27:00  <dih> HAHA
11:27:05  <TrueBrain> I somehow don't feel like hearing about panda tits all day long :p
11:27:26  <TrueBrain> I wonder with which webchat he will join next ..
11:27:35  * dih buys TrueBrain a Play(Panda)Boy
11:27:37  <dih> :-P
11:27:44  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
11:27:58  <dih> why dont you just ban all webchats :-P
11:28:01  <dih> hehe
11:28:09  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: http://www.snt.utwente.nl/vereniging/news/634 explains it
11:28:13  <TrueBrain> the smell of something stuck in my new monitor which is now burning ..
11:28:23  <dih> lol
11:28:31  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: long 30 minutes :p
11:28:49  <Rubidium> true
11:29:20  <Rubidium> but you forgot the student 15 minutes and the Twents 15 minutes for both the start time and the time it will take ;)
11:29:42  <TrueBrain> then it should be working again in 20 seconds ;)
11:29:51  <TrueBrain> I wonder which game I should launch on my new screens ... :)
11:29:51  <TrueBrain> hehe
11:30:11  * Rubidium knows a game that's widescreen certified that you might have ;)
11:30:52  <TrueBrain> haha, it does work over the complete desktop :)
11:31:00  <TrueBrain> now that is really insane :p
11:31:28  <TrueBrain> euh ... Rubidium: I would like to report a bug :p
11:31:35  <TrueBrain> when I make OpenTTD over my 2 screens
11:31:36  <TrueBrain> close the game
11:31:40  <TrueBrain> open it again, it gets the size of 1 screen
11:31:46  <TrueBrain> but .. OpenTTD still things it is over 2 screens :p
11:31:49  <TrueBrain> I need to resize to fix it :(
11:31:59  <Rubidium> go fix sdl?
11:32:01  *** Mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:32:04  <TrueBrain> nah :)
11:32:21  <TrueBrain> the other bug ... the opntitle screen is not as pretty at this size :p
11:33:04  <TrueBrain> okay, enough wining :) I am going to install Gentoo .. then some dancing classes .. be back much later :) Have fun you all!
11:33:29  <Rubidium> heh.. ftp.nl.debian.org is back up ;)
11:33:58  <TrueBrain> yeah :)
11:34:56  <petern> burp
11:35:01  <TrueBrain> hmm .. now I come to think of it .. I don't need to reboot to install Gentoo .. I can do that from withn Debian :p hehe :)
11:35:03  <TrueBrain> petern: bless you
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11:36:05  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: and doing it over ssh is so much more fun :)
11:36:40  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hehe, true :)
11:36:46  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: here the FTP still doesn't respond ..
11:37:05  <Rubidium> I just got about 80 MB from there
11:37:57  <TrueBrain> ah, ftp:// is, http:// is not
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11:56:13  <FloSoft> hmm where was the page with those copy&paste patches? or was it already added to trunk?
11:56:30  <TrueBrain> I doubt it will ever be in trunk, so check the forum?
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12:02:36  <Celestar> c&p patches O_o
12:03:17  <Celestar> don't like em
12:03:25  <TrueBrain> spoils the game ;)
12:04:16  <Celestar> I want auto-build :P
12:05:58  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] by DorpsGek
12:06:00  <petern> i want lots of money
12:06:16  <Celestar> me too
12:06:19  <Celestar> about ... 10 billion?
12:06:25  <petern> that'll do
12:06:30  <Celestar> ok
12:06:37  * Celestar starts printing
12:06:45  <Doorslammer> :S
12:06:47  <TrueBrain> wow, openttd-0.6.3 is finally unmasked in Gentoo
12:06:50  <TrueBrain> about time ..
12:06:53  <petern> hah
12:07:01  <Celestar> "unmasked" meaning?
12:07:14  <TrueBrain> you can install openttd without warning or overriding security
12:07:23  <Celestar> uh huh
12:07:33  <Celestar> and that wasn't the case before?
12:07:42  <TrueBrain> no, because of a few CVEs
12:07:50  <TrueBrain> they masked (read: blocked) all OpenTTD versions
12:07:52  <Celestar> a few .. what?
12:08:00  <TrueBrain> it took ages for them to realiase 0.6.3 wasn't effected ..
12:08:05  <TrueBrain> but .. we are finally there ;)
12:08:09  <TrueBrain> CVE .. security reports?
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12:08:27  <Celestar> is that some gentoo specific stuff? :P
12:08:34  <TrueBrain> no ...
12:08:36  <TrueBrain> very VERY general
12:08:50  <TrueBrain> http://cve.mitre.org/
12:08:53  <Celestar> ah
12:15:18  <Spoons> They? Isn't gentoo run by one guy, surely you mean "he". *runs*
12:26:52  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!7bf3ce66@webchat.mibbit.com] by DorpsGek
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12:50:51  <dih> there is no Spoon!
12:52:20  <SpComb> I've heard that before somewhere
12:53:54  *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux
12:53:56  <FauxFaux> Ssh. ¬_¬
12:54:44  <TrueBrain> no, not in SSH
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12:55:23  <petern> spoooooooooon guaaaaaaaaaaard
12:55:48  <FauxFaux> I accidentally the spoonguard.
12:57:02  <dih> you accidentally _what_ the spoonguard?
12:57:44  <petern> he accidentally the spoonguard
12:57:51  <petern> can you not read?
12:59:33  <TrueBrain> read?
12:59:34  <ln> implicit verbs less typing.
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13:00:41  <Wolf01> implicit sentences, no typing
13:01:33  <TrueBrain> pff, compiling gcc always takes for ever :(
13:01:51  <TrueBrain> downloading the CoD beta too ..
13:02:32  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: hmm on my quad compiling's really fast ;)
13:02:49  <TrueBrain> gcc drops back to a single core to compile, so somewhat I doubt that
13:03:40  <TrueBrain> (well, single thread, but okay, comes down to the same ;))
13:04:16  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: hmm did you use "make -j $insertmaximumthreadcounthere$"
13:04:25  <TrueBrain> FloSoft: it really doesn't matter in case of gcc
13:04:30  <TrueBrain> (like a few other software packages)
13:05:28  <TrueBrain> I believe either glib or glibc falls back to -j1 too ..
13:06:10  <TrueBrain> and with multilib active, gcc does two complete runs ... whoho
13:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, then just compile different packages in parallel
13:07:21  *** welshdragon [~vista@87.102.21.185] has quit [Quit: uni time]
13:07:25  <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause :)
13:08:29  <Belugas> hello boyz
13:08:45  <FloSoft> hmm: dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: debian/openttd/usr/games/openttd shouldn't be linked with libicui18n.so.38 (it uses none of its symbols).
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13:11:30  <glx> FloSoft: not a problem
13:11:36  <glx> it still works
13:12:24  <glx> and it should warn about libicudata too
13:12:32  <FloSoft> glx: i know, but that binding is unnessecary
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13:13:19  <glx> tell that to libicu devs, icu-config --libs-only always give these 3 libs
13:13:32  <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/TrueBrain-WorkSpace.jpeg <- my workspace ... don't mind the mess ;) The small thing on the left is my computer :)
13:14:02  <FauxFaux> The stand for my headphones is larger than that. ¬_¬
13:14:11  <petern> kde looks so horrible :p
13:14:43  <TrueBrain> KDE sucks, yes
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13:16:41  <Belugas> YURK!
13:16:54  <Belugas> a desktop full of SNOW!!!
13:16:57  <petern> :)
13:17:03  <petern> mine is full of winamp visualization
13:17:05  <TrueBrain> Belugas: told you I liked snow :)
13:17:17  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*Flex@89.246.*] by petern
13:17:17  <TrueBrain> petern: now that is a nice idea :)
13:17:52  <Belugas> i second that!
13:17:54  <glx> hmm kde in kde?
13:18:08  <TrueBrain> glx: on the right screen is nxclient at work, to an other machine of mine
13:18:16  <TrueBrain> it contains all my chat applications, mail, and stuff like that
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13:18:18  <SpComb> my desk is clean!
13:18:39  <TrueBrain> but more the point here was: check my 2x 22" widescreen :p
13:19:09  <glx> nice screens
13:19:17  <petern> nasty flat keyboard
13:19:37  <TrueBrain> the flatter the better
13:21:34  <Belugas> TrueBrain, i like diving (as you know).  does not mean i have a diving related desktop ;)
13:21:50  <TrueBrain> Belugas: well .. that is just sad ;)
13:21:51  <Belugas> mmh... irrelevent... it has my son's picture... i guess i love him more than diving
13:22:02  <TrueBrain> See!
13:22:05  <TrueBrain> pfew :)
13:23:15  <Belugas> hehe
13:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i must like jessica alba then...
13:25:00  <TrueBrain> hahahahahahahaha
13:25:10  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. Jessica Alba ..
13:25:51  <FauxFaux> http://faux.uwcs.co.uk/deskb1.jpg <-- I was trying to resist linking this, but with your talk about loving your wallpapers. <3
13:26:39  <glx> your desk is too clean to be real ;)
13:26:44  <dih> TrueBrain: here's an idea - move everything you dont need on your desk to somewhere else - then take another picture :-P
13:27:02  <FauxFaux> Yeah, it was polished for that, normally covered in half eaten snackies and bowls/plates. :p
13:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing ever stays half eaten here...
13:28:30  <TrueBrain> FauxFaux: nice screens ;)
13:28:36  <dih> no - but everything remains emtpy after it's been eaten
13:28:37  <TrueBrain> dih: why? :)
13:28:50  <FauxFaux> Clearly you're not buying cadbury's chocolate in the 1kg bars they offer.
13:28:55  <Eddi|zuHause> amazing how the same picture can look so falsely coloured in two adjacent screens...
13:29:14  <TrueBrain> reason I always buy two identical screens
13:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause> 1kg of chocolate? that'd take half an hour tops...
13:29:31  <dih> FauxFaux: are you by any chance lacking a chromosom?
13:29:34  <FauxFaux> Yeah, the right screen is about a third of the price of the left. (http://faux.uwcs.co.uk/ocuk-viewingangle.jpg)
13:29:49  <Belugas> A desktop not cluttered by papers, pen and books is the one of an administrator, i.e.: one that make the other works, i.e: one who does not work ^_^
13:29:55  <FauxFaux> dih: No, but I am lacking the ability or will to prepare food for myself. ¬_¬
13:30:14  <dih> why do you have these odd thingybob's on your screens?
13:30:20  <dih> that is really girly
13:30:26  <FauxFaux> Ponies. \o/
13:30:30  <dih> PINK
13:30:36  <FauxFaux> :D
13:30:55  <dih> those a things my neightbour likes playing with
13:30:57  <dih> she is 6
13:31:24  <FauxFaux> She sounds nice, is she single?
13:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> my sister also always wanted those things
13:31:33  <dih> pedofile arse!
13:31:35  <dih> :-P
13:32:11  <dih> sick
13:32:32  <TrueBrain> well, girls, I wish you a good day
13:32:38  * FauxFaux waves.
13:32:38  <TrueBrain> I am going to try CoD WAW MP Beta
13:32:41  <TrueBrain> and then I am off
13:32:44  <TrueBrain> have a good one :)
13:32:49  <petern> mmm, 1kg of cadbury's
13:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the most interesting about TrueBrain's "screenshot" is that he has a query window with Gekz open :p
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13:47:30  <petern> is that interesting?
13:49:57  *** mode/#openttd [-b bow*!*@*] by petern
13:55:27  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not
13:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> where are all these random bans coming from?
13:56:47  * Celestar wonders whether it is possible to mark an xfs so that it is fsck'ed on next boot
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13:57:33  <Ammler> last number in fstab
13:58:00  <Celestar> that's the fsck order isn't it?
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13:58:43  <ln> Celestar: touching /forcefsck forces checking everything at next boot, at least on certain distros.
13:59:29  <Celestar> ln: yes, but that's my last resort
14:01:18  <ln> touch /forcefsck and set last field in fstab to zero for all other partitions :/
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14:06:50  <Celestar> or that :D
14:09:14  <Celestar> this disk is way too full :S
14:10:42  <petern> wasn't there a lot of hype several years ago that unix-type filesystems didn't need defragging?
14:11:30  <glx> fsck is not really for defrag IIRC
14:11:39  <thingwath> no, it really isn't
14:11:52  <Celestar> petern: they don't need it that badly. not by a long shot
14:12:00  <thingwath> but even unix filesystems need defragging, when they are used almost full, all the time
14:12:11  <Celestar> petern: unix people just say "full file systems perform badly"
14:12:20  <glx> windows needs a defrag right after install
14:12:35  <Celestar> petern: which is basically the same as "my file system is fragged like there's no tomorrow"
14:13:06  <ln> glx: now is that still true for ntfs?
14:13:13  <glx> yes
14:13:30  <ln> "needs", why?
14:13:32  <glx> ntfs doesn't solve the write where the head is
14:14:50  <Celestar> petern: unix file systems, as opposed to their windows counterparts, try hard not to fragment the data in the first place.
14:14:51  <glx> well it doesn't really need it, but a fresh install system is fragmented
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14:15:07  <Celestar> NTFS and FAT just write the data all over the place
14:15:32  <thingwath> FAT is really stupid, but I think that NTFS should be better
14:15:41  <Celestar> marginally
14:16:11  <glx> ntfs supports compression and has better rights management but I think that's all
14:16:23  <thingwath> at least, microsoft has tools for online defrag :)
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14:16:35  <thingwath> for many linux filesystem, there is no tool for defrag at all :)
14:17:17  <glx> because it's usually not needed :)
14:17:21  <Belugas> clusters are smaller too (way smaller), and the allocation table is less likely to be corrupted, regarding ntfs
14:17:48  <petern> worst filesystem i ever used for corruption was reiserfs
14:18:47  <Celestar> reiser fucks up rarely, but if it does, it does it well :P
14:19:00  <thingwath> well, rarely...
14:19:19  <Celestar> often enough for me to not use it :P
14:19:27  <glx> power cut on write?
14:19:36  <petern> yeah
14:19:39  <petern> that'll do it
14:19:54  <Celestar> yeah. it might
14:19:58  <petern> reiserfs seems to be a journalling fs for performance rather than integrity
14:20:04  <Celestar> apparently
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14:20:19  <Celestar> ZFS all the way :D
14:20:29  <petern> i stick with ext3 mostly
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14:20:43  <petern> not the fastest but i've never experienced corruption
14:20:52  <thingwath> I did :)
14:20:59  <thingwath> but I could fix it very easily
14:21:02  <petern> data loss on power failure, yes, but not fs corruption
14:21:11  <thingwath> it's really robust fs
14:21:30  <petern> i seem to remember an early 2.2 kernel had a fs trashing bug too :D
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14:32:02  <Celestar> heh
14:32:07  <Celestar> I've had those on 2.5 kernels too :P
14:33:15  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the scheme behind kernel versioning anyway?
14:33:58  <thingwath> just increment the last number in 2.6.something forever :)
14:34:27  <Ammler> there was a 2.5 kernel?
14:34:42  <Ammler> but not really used...
14:34:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean you often hear about 2.4 and 2.6, but really rarely about 2.5
14:34:48  <thingwath> of course, as a development tree
14:35:13  <Eddi|zuHause> and you see nobody talking about going to 2.7
14:35:21  <thingwath> there will not be any 2.7
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14:39:05  <Ammler> one thing, I had better experience with FAT then ext3 is for USB Disks, if you unplug them without unmount
14:40:45  <Ammler> fsck works now since hours with my HD, next time I try with sync.
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14:41:08  <petern> does FAT contain an 'unmount uncleanly' tag?
14:41:21  <thingwath> almost certainly not
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14:43:48  <Celestar> heh
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14:56:39  * dih uses hfs+ :-P
14:56:55  <Celestar> :o
14:56:58  <Celestar> zfs works on linux
14:58:02  <Tefad> "works" and works are two different things
14:58:42  <ln> yes, one of them is a lame office suite from microsoft.
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15:04:07  <dih> ln: yes - the ms thing just does not... ironic actually!
15:07:36  <Aali> yay, i figured out what was segfaulting my ottd \o/
15:11:40  <Tefad> ln heh.
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16:30:59  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r14546 /trunk/src/ (string.cpp string_func.h):
16:30:59  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify string(cpy|cat) functions
16:30:59  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Doc: string(cpy|cat) functions
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16:48:51  <yorick> are server names always encoded in utf-8 when sent over network?
16:49:35  <glx> why?
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16:50:15  <yorick> because...212054696b6f732067c3a16dc3a9c3a9203333333333332121 <-- this is a hex representation of a server name
16:50:37  <yorick> I can't decode that with ASCII
16:50:44  <glx> looks like utf8 yes
16:52:25  <ben_goodger> yorick: most latin in UTF8 is ASCII equivalent
16:53:10  <ben_goodger> you should be able to get some sense out of it with raw ASCII unless it is composed for some reason primarily of non-alphanumerics
16:53:47  <yorick> ben_goodger: yes, but python errors on it when using th ascii codec
16:54:18  <ben_goodger> yorick: try another codec then?
16:54:28  <yorick> utf8 fails on revisions
16:55:35  <yorick> "8ae8a9a6e9818be8bba2e4b8ad" <- this one
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16:56:32  <ben_goodger> appears to read ÚÞ®ªÚÌïÞ+óõ©¡
16:56:44  <yorick> heh
16:56:57  <ben_goodger> or ᅵᅵᅵᅵᅵᅵᅵᅵ+ᅵᅵᅵᅵ
16:57:05  <yorick> aha
16:57:14  <ben_goodger> :P
16:57:19  <ben_goodger> 'tis gibberish#
16:58:09  <yorick> what kind of revision is that?
16:59:24  <ben_goodger> revision?
16:59:40  <ln> UTF-8 only!
17:00:00  <yorick> ln: nono, "please"
17:00:10  <ben_goodger> well, if it's UTF-8 I think it's gibberish
17:00:25  <yorick> or it fails for another reason
17:00:51  <Belugas> isn't it a hg revision ?
17:00:54  <Belugas> jsut an idea...
17:01:06  <thingwath> I don't think *this* makes any sense as UTF-8
17:01:07  <yorick> Belugas: if I try to get the raw packet, it reads 0.6.2 somewhere
17:02:35  <petern> servers names are not encoded
17:03:01  <glx> petern: all strings are utf8 internally
17:03:11  <glx> so server names are too
17:04:30  <petern> wrong
17:04:35  <petern> server names are sent as-is
17:04:48  <petern> so if it's not utf8 in the config, then it's not utf8
17:04:55  <petern> and it is not *encoded* by ottd
17:05:16  <glx> it's whatever is filled in char*
17:05:40  <yorick> hmm, the packet just seems awfully broken
17:06:45  <yorick> http://paste.openttd.org/142892
17:07:18  <FauxFaux> Yeah, there's a typo in the middle there somewhere.
17:09:55  <fjb> If I have a pointer to the nth element of an array, is there a way to find out the n?
17:10:07  <petern> pointer - first element
17:10:11  <FauxFaux> Yeah, the "-" operator, highly complex.
17:10:56  <fjb> first element means poiter to the start of the array?
17:11:06  <FauxFaux> Close enough.
17:11:35  <fjb> Or "pointer - array[0]"?
17:11:48  <thingwath> um, no.
17:12:32  <fjb> C sytax is complicated sometimes.
17:13:55  <ln> not at all.
17:14:11  <Sacro> x = x++;
17:14:15  <Sacro> that is complex
17:14:19  <FauxFaux> UNDEFINED
17:14:24  <thingwath> no, it isn't :)
17:14:30  <Aali> C syntax is dead simple, if you know what you're doing
17:14:41  <FauxFaux> I'm pretty sure it counts as two modifications before a sequence point, thingwath.
17:16:25  <Sacro> i hate the way it is different in C and C#
17:16:31  <Sacro> C increments (as it should)
17:16:33  <Sacro> C# doesn't
17:16:37  <thingwath> just don't use it
17:16:39  <thingwath> never use it
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17:17:29  <thingwath> how you can tall what C should do with x in this?
17:17:43  <Sacro> it should set x = x
17:17:47  <Sacro> and then post-increment it
17:17:50  <Sacro> perfectly simple
17:18:06  <Sacro> so it is just x++;
17:18:13  <glx> why should it?
17:18:28  <thingwath> why it should increment x after assinging the value?
17:18:29  <Sacro> glx: post incremeent
17:18:35  <Sacro> thingwath: ^
17:18:45  <FauxFaux> It's undefined..
17:18:48  <glx> order of operations is not defined
17:18:53  <FauxFaux> It might do the same as c#!
17:19:00  <thingwath> put value of x to =, and then increment
17:19:34  <FauxFaux> glx: I believe, in this case, it's not the order but actually the safety that's not defined. Subtle difference, but still relevant.
17:19:52  <Sacro> ooh, now x += x++
17:20:02  <glx> anyway I wouldn't trust somebody coding that way
17:20:16  <Sacro> that should hmm
17:20:36  <Sacro> double x and add one
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19:19:30  <fjb> What does gcc try to tell me? "error: two or more data types in declaration specifiers"
19:20:40  <petern> it means you have two or more data types in a declartion specifier
19:20:58  <Rubidium> probably a missing semi-colon or so
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19:22:04  <fjb> Hm, is "enum ramp_flags flags;" as part of a struct wrong?
19:23:04  <Aali> you can't use enums as types
19:23:38  <Aali> you still have to store the enumerated values in an integer
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19:24:07  <fjb> My C book told me it should be possible. Maybe I got that wrong.
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19:25:26  <petern> you must declare the enum separately
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19:25:38  <petern> then you should just be able to use "ramp_flags flags;"
19:25:49  <Aali> ah yes, the problem is the enum keyword
19:25:56  <Aali> its only used to declare enums
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19:26:12  <Aali> nevermind what i said about enums not being types
19:26:16  <fjb> The enum is declared separately.
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19:27:52  <fjb> I still get that error wirthout "enum" in that line. But I get an additional error: "error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'ramp_flags'"
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19:29:05  <Aali> and what does you enum declaration look like?
19:29:13  <Aali> *your
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19:31:45  <fjb> Ah, good hint, the semi-colon was missing there.
19:31:55  <fjb> Thank you.
19:32:05  *** mortal`` is now known as mortal
19:32:30  <fjb> "enum ramp_flags flags;" is correct.
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19:32:38  <Aali> yeah, i know
19:33:00  <Aali> i never use enums, so i forgot how the little buggers work :P
19:33:43  <fjb> I didn't find an example...
19:33:44  <Aali> enum ramp_flags is indeed the correct type name if you dont typedef it
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20:09:18  <yorick> Belugas: what security reasons?
20:09:44  *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:12:18  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:24:25  <Belugas> does it really matter?
20:28:08  <yorick> yes
20:31:53  <Belugas> no
20:32:41  <yorick> then it's not a valid reason
20:33:47  <Belugas> if you insist: doing distributed automatic banning by a python client based on your now available identifier is not very interesting
20:34:54  <yorick> where does it say it will be used for that
20:34:56  <Belugas> one day, the game will be used only by control freak admins who will have even more fun then players
20:35:06  <Belugas> yorick, come on...
20:36:54  <yorick> how about afk monitoring + automatic pausing?
20:38:35  <Belugas> better use another method.  exposing slot like tjis is way too touchy
20:39:14  <yorick> you mean it does not make sense to know which client actually did a command, only which company?
20:41:38  <Belugas> you got that right!
20:45:01  <yorick> }|
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20:53:21  <Belugas> and i'm gone home
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21:20:09  * TrueBrain loves iPhone :)
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21:51:06  * Eddi|zuHause doesn't get what all the fuzz is about
21:51:27  <yorick> what fuzz?
21:52:29  <FauxFaux> Shit, it's the fuzz!
21:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> about Belugas talking to himself :p
21:52:57  <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
21:52:57  <SmatZ> !logs
21:53:16  <yorick> Fitt, it's it's the shuz!
21:53:29  <yorick> -it's
21:53:30  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: oh, I was thinking about the iPhone fuzz
21:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yeah, i did, too. ;)
21:54:02  <SmatZ> so did I :)
21:54:09  <SmatZ> and I didn't know
21:54:16  <Rubidium> "The iPhones aren't the only bad apples in the cell phone basket and there's not much you can do about the problem." <- A quote a like a lot
21:54:28  <Eddi|zuHause> haha ;)
21:54:35  <Rubidium> if only the third a was an A ;)
21:54:49  <SmatZ> hehe
21:54:50  <yorick> ipaones?
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22:24:49  <Aali> wow, with IS and improved breakdowns, planes actually go for emergency landings at other companies airports
22:25:19  <Aali> and they still charge you the landing fee, those greedy bastards
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22:43:03  <Char> hmmm
22:43:05  <Char> one question
22:43:23  <SmatZ> no
22:43:31  * SmatZ <== bad mood
22:43:41  <Char> is there a reasonable way to replace engines if the one engine is a double engine and the other a single one?
22:43:49  <Char> SmatZ: whats wrong?
22:44:00  <Aali> Char: not really
22:44:18  <SmatZ> Char: as I said, no :) ... well personal things are going bad
22:44:30  <Char> well
22:44:35  <Char> i'm sorry for yoyu
22:44:36  <Char> you
22:44:38  <SmatZ> thanks :-)
22:49:31  <fjb> Hm, conditional orders and cargo dest don't get along too well...
22:49:33  <Char> guess it doesnt really help you, me beiung sorry
22:49:35  <Char> but
22:49:38  <Char> well...
22:49:46  <SmatZ> :-)
22:49:49  <SmatZ> it does
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22:58:15  <Eddi|zuHause> well, conditional orders are impossible to predict, cargodest cannot ever handle them completely
22:58:42  <Char> hmmm
22:58:56  <Char> the game gets kinda boring once you have connected most of the stuff
22:59:23  <Aali> prospect more :)
23:01:46  <Char> prospect?
23:02:26  <Aali> press F12
23:02:43  <Char> well
23:02:51  <Char> can only fund non-interesting stuff
23:02:56  <Char> like a factory
23:03:09  <Char> i dont need a factory, i got one.
23:03:11  <Aali> its a patch setting
23:03:18  <Char> i know
23:03:21  <Char> i think it sucks ;)
23:03:26  <Aali> sorry, advanced setting
23:03:36  <Aali> prospecting is great
23:03:44  <fjb> I deleted the conditional orders, but now I have two independent routes. The cargo for the second station doesn't get loaded, only for the first station.
23:04:40  <Aali> why would conditional orders create problems with cargodest?
23:04:44  <Char> i could earn enough money to fill all water space with land
23:05:04  <Aali> unless you're using no load/no unload orders, of course
23:05:24  <Aali> Char: but thats very pointless :P
23:06:03  <Char> hmmm
23:06:04  <Char> it is
23:06:14  <rortom> Char: join a MP server with nightly, proper settings and good GRF ...
23:06:50  <Ammler> openttdserver.de :P
23:06:52  <Aali> i'm thinking about setting up my own MP server
23:07:19  <rortom> lol @ ammler
23:07:37  <rortom> its very easy if you own a dedicated server
23:07:42  <Aali> running my own patchpack
23:07:48  <fjb> Or user NARS 2.0 and eGRVTS and start in 1831.
23:08:10  <Aali> oh i already run a dedicated ottd server for personal use
23:08:20  <Ammler> I would say, it is very hard to setup a own server
23:08:36  <rortom> ah, patchpacks are nice, but complicated to manage over time
23:08:42  <Ammler> define proper GRF combinations.
23:08:58  <rortom> the one from openttdcoop :p
23:09:14  <Aali> rortom: this one is, yes, i'm running just about every major patch there is
23:09:17  <rortom> since we have presets, its very easy to clone
23:09:20  <Ammler> coop doesn't use patchpack
23:09:25  <Char> hmmm
23:09:41  <Char> anyone of you currently in a network game?
23:09:45  <rortom> Ammler, i mean GRF settings
23:09:47  <Aali> NoAI, cargodest, IS, improved breakdowns, improved timetable management and alot more
23:09:48  <rortom> yes
23:09:56  <Char> i could also try to get a performance rating of 1000
23:09:59  <rortom> see ammlers URL ;)
23:10:15  <Char> only thing i would need to do is build a shitload of stations
23:10:20  <Ammler> Aali: begin with 2-3 patches
23:10:24  <Char> and 6 more vehicles
23:10:34  <Aali> Ammler: why?
23:11:03  <Ammler> Aali: do you know a working patchpack?
23:11:17  *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.104.236] has joined #openttd
23:12:05  <Aali> Ammler: what do you mean by that?, have i actually ever seen a working patchpack? yes :P
23:12:23  <Ammler> on a MP server?
23:12:39  <rortom> the russian patchpack is neic
23:12:41  <rortom> *nice
23:12:54  <Ammler> that one is for sure, not useable
23:13:03  <rortom> agreed :D
23:13:27  <Rubidium> even the mother of all patchpacks wasn't MP safe at all
23:13:37  <nicfer> I got an idea for multiplayer mode: what about a total vehicle limit, not only a per vehicle type one?
23:13:50  <Ammler> the best pack in that matter was Tiberiuss
23:14:14  <Ammler> and those for wwottdgd, of course :-)
23:14:18  * Rubidium doesn't remember what was in there
23:14:36  <Aali> well, thats part of the reason why i wanted to setup a MP server, so I can fix those issues
23:14:52  <Ammler> TibPP was mainly IS and YAPP
23:14:52  <nicfer> and not related, I have a system that would enable to build trolleybuses
23:15:15  <nicfer> Belug as would like it
23:15:19  <Ammler> and without PaxDest
23:15:55  <Aali> and I have yet to make it desync the MP game I'm playing with some friends
23:15:56  <Rubidium> Aali: fixing desyncs is tricky and pretty hard, so I hope you've got lots of experience with fixing other more reproducable bugs
23:16:03  <Aali> and we even have an AI in there
23:16:37  <Ammler> AI should be sync safe
23:17:14  <Aali> all the other patches *should* be sync safe too :P
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23:18:33  <nicfer> my idea is to make the electric wires a flag of the road/tram rails instead of being attached to the tramtracks
23:18:36  <Rubidium> one thing about "sync safe": never believe the author, most of the time they are wrong
23:19:16  <Rubidium> nicfer: so you implemented that, right?
23:19:40  <nicfer> no, that's a idea only
23:20:08  *** Aitor [~aitor@118.Red-213-97-221.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit []
23:20:28  <Rubidium> in that case I'll tell the American patent office that there has been prior art ;)
23:20:34  <rortom> about desync
23:20:49  <rortom> what about adding a feedback routine once a client desyncs?
23:21:14  <rortom> like compare hash parts of the savegame, until the error position is found?
23:21:53  *** Rhydderch [~IceChat7@cpe-75-185-45-25.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
23:22:07  <Rhydderch> hello?
23:22:23  <SmatZ> hello!
23:22:41  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.194.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:22:41  <Rhydderch> ok new to irc here and to open ttd
23:23:02  <Aali> Rubidium: of course, and i haven't seen anyone brag about their patch being sync safe, i'm only going by my personal experience with these patches
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23:23:13  <Rubidium> rortom: wouldn't quite help
23:23:25  <Rubidium> Aali: that's likely because you haven't been here long enough
23:23:34  <rortom> rubidium, why not, if you know the history of the tile?
23:23:58  <Aali> Rubidium: most likely, yes :P
23:24:03  <Rubidium> rortom: the cause of desyncs happen usually a long time before the actual desync
23:24:39  <Rubidium> and by long I mean up to at least 20-ish game years
23:25:05  <rortom> oh, thats indeed not good
23:25:11  <Aali> yeah, if a direct action leads to a desync it will be discovered and fixed, but a long chain of events can also lead to a desync if just one of those things go wrong
23:25:14  <rortom> why is it so long not detected then?
23:25:47  <Rubidium> because the gamestate has been slightly different and an action many years later triggers the desync
23:26:12  <rortom> mh, thats indeed not good
23:26:16  <Rubidium> e.g. the "do autorenew" setting of a company is not properly synced across all clients
23:26:21  <rortom> is there any approach from your side to solve that?
23:26:48  <Rubidium> the approach of stopping desyncs all together is... unfeasible
23:27:17  <rortom> yes
23:27:29  <Rubidium> making and sending a delta of the complete game state every tick is somewhat more bandwidth expensive
23:28:13  <rortom> maybe you can record games and playback in some kind of desync finder?
23:28:20  <Rubidium> as it'd mean sending a savegame every real time second to all clients
23:28:27  <rortom> i thought more about a 3rd party tool to find bugs
23:28:45  <SmatZ> Rubidium: we discussed it yesterday, savegames may differ for clients, but the effective game state is the same
23:28:50  <Rubidium> rortom: the playback can already be made if one uses the appropriate compile flags
23:28:50  <SmatZ> eg. not in a desync-state
23:29:11  <rortom> cool to know :)
23:29:12  <Rubidium> s/compile/configure/
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23:29:27  <rortom> but could it be used to trace such errors?
23:29:45  <Rubidium> but that only helps in reliably reproducing it
23:29:58  <SmatZ> furthermore, bugs in say YAPF cache are untraceable this way
23:30:03  <Rubidium> after that it's usually placing printfs at strategic places
23:30:23  <rortom> that sounds pretty non-automatic :\
23:30:28  *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.104.236] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:30:33  <Rubidium> anyhow... most of the desyncs lately are due to newgrfs doing strange things
23:30:42  <rortom> yes
23:30:56  <rortom> is there some logic checker for newgrfs?
23:31:20  <rortom> or something to limit their actions in they way that this happens?
23:31:20  <Ammler> nforenum?
23:31:57  <Rubidium> if we find a way a newgrf can cause a desync we either fix it or we mark the newgrf as unuseable in MP
23:32:15  <Ammler> is there one?
23:32:44  <Rubidium> e.g. canset (IIRC) changes it's vehicle length when it turns around
23:33:08  <Rubidium> but when you reload the same savegame it initializes the vehicle length to the length it was before the turn
23:33:17  <Ammler> was that the reason, it got removed?
23:33:47  <Rubidium> Ammler: no, that was acting upon his own threats
23:34:24  <Char> NOW
23:34:24  <Rubidium> if you (O)TTD(P) do not implement feature XY then I'll remove the set
23:34:26  <Char> now
23:34:33  <Char> my company rating is at 1000
23:34:41  <Char> thats reason enough to start a new game
23:35:01  <dih> Rubidium, what a silly thing to try
23:35:20  <dih> thinking ones grf was enough leverage
23:35:46  <dih> thinking there even was leverage at all :-P
23:36:05  <Ammler> well, that is not worth to discuss anyway...
23:36:18  <rortom> haha, thats lame @ threats
23:36:30  <rortom> peopel try that everytime for RoR as well ;)
23:36:36  <rortom> *people
23:38:18  <Rhydderch> is this channel specificly for the developers of OpenTTD? I thought perhaps it was for those who were just players too....
23:38:45  <Rhydderch> however the discussion is way over my head
23:39:08  <fjb> We have 1912 and I finally got my first non steam train.
23:39:35  <Rubidium> Rhydderch: OpenTTD doesn't have 92 developers ;)
23:39:46  <Vikthor> Rhydderch: It depends, most of the time it's not about OpenTTD at all :p
23:39:50  <Rhydderch> lol never know
23:40:00  <rortom> why dont fork the channel, blender did it well
23:40:09  <rortom> #openttd.dev or something
23:40:59  <Rubidium> there's not that much chatter
23:41:56  <rortom> true again
23:42:15  <rortom> one last thing
23:42:25  <Rubidium> sepuku?
23:42:29  <rortom> if you would want to write a management protocol
23:42:34  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
23:42:46  <rortom> what language would you choose for the interface?
23:43:08  * rortom thought of xml-rpc
23:43:18  <Rubidium> something buzzword free
23:43:37  <SmatZ> hehe
23:45:14  <rortom> no i mean its usable by any language at all
23:45:23  <Vikthor> night
23:45:27  <rortom> you could php, java, c/c++, ... to connect
23:45:53  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat3.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:46:46  *** welshdragon is now known as walshdragon
23:47:11  *** Rhydderch [~IceChat7@cpe-75-185-45-25.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space]
23:48:44  <Rubidium> buzzword free doesn't mean unuseable
23:48:59  * Rubidium wonders how many of the famous protocols use XML-RPC
23:50:05  <rortom> coming up with something on your own is not the problem
23:50:19  <rortom> just if you want everyone to use it
23:50:54  * Rubidium doesn't like the requirement of both a xml library and a http library
23:51:06  * SmatZ wonders about overhead (both data size and computional time) caused by XML-RPC
23:52:31  <rortom> i also dont like overhead
23:52:41  <rortom> so thats the reason i asked :)
23:52:55  <rortom> must sleep, work in 5 hours, gn8
23:52:57  *** rortom [~rortom_@5acfc1d1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:53:13  <Rubidium> how typical...

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