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00:00:02 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C792.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:02:06 <Sacro> http://ohshiit.com/ 00:05:21 <benjamingoodger> good evening, gentlemen 00:07:19 <Antdovu> all your base are belong to us 00:08:17 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 00:08:52 <benjamingoodger> although I didn't intend to emulate a tired old cliché, I recognise the possibility that I act too much like an evil genius 00:09:05 <Antdovu> you set yourself up for it :P 00:09:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:44 <benjamingoodger> I do have a tendency to go "excellent!" while steepling my fingers and leaning back in a high-backed chair, I will admit 00:10:22 <benjamingoodger> though I retain a full head of dark brown hair. possibly I will shave much of it off and dye it grey for a fancy-dress party. 00:13:22 * benjamingoodger increments his conversation-killing combo score 00:15:23 <Antdovu> you are the only person in this room 00:15:24 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:29 <Antdovu> everyone else is a bot 00:15:45 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 00:16:04 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Enohp eht no S'enilorac, Regor... Tnoflahc, mraf ynnuf eht fo erac, 'Knip Dlo' ot rewsna ruoy dnes esaelp. Egassem terces eht derevocsid tsuj evah uoy, sn] 00:16:44 <benjamingoodger> aww 00:17:41 <benjamingoodger> oh well 00:17:53 <benjamingoodger> this does at least confirm my theory that everyone else exists merely to worsen my paranoia 00:18:08 <Antdovu> that is 100% correct 00:18:44 <Antdovu> but keep in mind that you are actually making everyone up 00:18:52 <Antdovu> you can get rid of them by forgetting about them 00:18:54 <benjamingoodger> you're doing it now! 00:19:04 <benjamingoodger> however, you'd be paranoid too, if everyone were conspiring against you 00:19:33 <Antdovu> I can confirm that I am actually planning to kill you in your sleep 00:19:59 <Antdovu> you will not remember it when you wake up 00:20:03 <benjamingoodger> you'll have to get over my tin-foil electric fence, though 00:20:15 <Antdovu> but you will be terrified of carrots for a weird reason 00:20:52 <benjamingoodger> how will I be terrified of carrots when I'm dead? 00:20:58 <benjamingoodger> how, indeed, will I wake up after being killed? 00:21:42 <Antdovu> there are more than one way to parse what I say ;) 00:21:55 <Antdovu> that is done on purpose to make you as confused as possible 00:23:03 <benjamingoodger> hmm 00:23:09 <benjamingoodger> failure 00:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> # bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes 00:23:35 <benjamingoodger> ...antdovu isn't a bunny 00:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> # they got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses 00:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> # and what's with all the carrots 00:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> # what do they need such good eye sight for anyway 00:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> # bunnies, bunnies, it must be BUNNIES 00:24:42 <Antdovu> actually, I am: http://www.donnie-darko.de/donnie-darko/fan-art/fan-art_02.jpg 00:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> # ... or maybe midgets 00:25:05 * benjamingoodger chucks his newly-developed caesium bomb at Eddi|zuHause and flees 00:25:08 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 00:26:16 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.117.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:21 <benjamingoodger> oh, thank goodness. being covered in boiling caesium hydroxide seems to have made him be quiet ¬.¬ 00:26:49 <Antdovu> it would be awesome to meet a bunny like me at night on a dark alley 00:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm actually just quietly pondering new ways of justifying your paranoia 00:27:34 <benjamingoodger> actually, I said worsen, not justify 00:27:42 <benjamingoodger> those are opposite and mutually exclusive 00:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'd say those are orthogonal 00:28:42 <benjamingoodger> you'd say a lot of things, I'm sure 00:29:49 <Antdovu> yes, I would 00:30:07 <benjamingoodger> ...not you ¬.¬ 00:30:22 <benjamingoodger> so, which is better? 00:30:26 <benjamingoodger> germany, sweden, or norway? 00:30:50 <Antdovu> your schizophrenia is getting worse 00:31:20 <benjamingoodger> why do you say that? 00:31:41 <Antdovu> you are further splitting your personalities 00:31:55 * Antdovu is Eddi|zuHause 00:31:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:32:03 <Antdovu> see? ;) 00:32:09 <benjamingoodger> hmmmmm 00:32:16 <benjamingoodger> conspiracy! 00:32:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:32:28 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i don't see 00:32:49 <benjamingoodger> actually, schizophrenia is a type of psychosis rather than multiple personalities 00:32:54 <Antdovu> benjamingoodger: I am your sane self 00:33:01 <benjamingoodger> you're thinking of Multiple Personality Disorder 00:33:06 <Antdovu> you have both 00:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, it's written with tz 00:33:19 <appe> :O 00:33:23 <appe> i love trains 00:33:28 <appe> at the same time i hate'm. 00:34:17 <benjamingoodger> that's perfectly normal 00:34:22 * fjb prefers to love girls. 00:34:23 <Antdovu> and that is your openttd crazed self... 00:35:41 *** dlunch [~dlunch@121.185.116.41] has joined #openttd 00:35:53 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 00:35:54 *** dlunch [~dlunch@121.185.116.41] has quit [] 00:36:17 <benjamingoodger> so, antdovu is Eddi|zuHause, and also, antdovu is me, and I'm appe 00:36:28 <Antdovu> that is correct 00:36:39 <benjamingoodger> so who is fjb? 00:36:45 <Antdovu> a bee 00:36:56 * fjb is fjb. 00:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a giant bee? 00:37:18 <Antdovu> a tiny bee 00:37:30 <benjamingoodger> a tiny bee that still manages to press a keyboard? 00:37:34 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 00:37:34 <Antdovu> yes 00:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> right... another -1 on the in-jokes... 00:37:57 <Antdovu> but as you see he can't talk 00:38:01 <Antdovu> he can only do 00:38:08 <benjamingoodger> some brief calculations reveal that he would have to be travelling very nearly at lightspeed before gaining enough mass to impact upon a keyboard 00:38:50 <Antdovu> he has quite a few higgs bosons 00:39:01 <benjamingoodger> ... 00:39:18 <benjamingoodger> that particle isn't yet known to exist, you know 00:39:28 <benjamingoodger> how can you possibly tell how many he has? 00:39:40 <Antdovu> remember: I am your sane self 00:39:49 <benjamingoodger> and no matter how many he has, he still has only 0.98 grams of mass 00:39:49 <Antdovu> you are the leading one 00:39:52 <Antdovu> but still insane 00:40:26 <benjamingoodger> or rather, 0.098 grams, pm 0.02g 00:42:18 <benjamingoodger> ...anywho 00:43:26 <Antdovu> some of your rational personalities have left 00:43:34 <Antdovu> only the imaginary ones are left 00:43:54 <benjamingoodger> benjamingoodger.convokillcombo = benjamingoodger.convokillcombo + 1 00:43:55 <Antdovu> and a few irrational multiples of pi 00:44:11 <appe> :O 00:44:51 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-73.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:45:18 <benjamingoodger> hurrah for pi 00:46:07 <Antdovu> fresh apple pi ftw! 00:46:25 <Antdovu> ;) 00:46:40 <benjamingoodger> mince pis are nicer 00:47:42 <benjamingoodger> unless it's mcdonalds apple pi, which is not pi at all, but a weird phi-like number 00:47:51 <benjamingoodger> and not nearly irrational 00:47:56 <benjamingoodger> but still nice 00:48:20 <Antdovu> obviously, nobody should eat mcdonals pi 00:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> apple is bad anyway 00:48:56 <appe> mcdonald pi. 00:48:58 <appe> interesting. 00:49:03 <Antdovu> iDon'tThinkSo 00:49:40 <appe> fourteen seconds is almost six months for me 00:49:46 <appe> when minimized 00:49:47 <appe> whohoo! 00:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mCCYLC-4xA 00:50:12 <Antdovu> a bit out of the line, isn't it? :P 00:54:47 <benjamingoodger> yes, that was a bit of a non sequitor 00:55:50 <Antdovu> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgls9IwWUyU 00:58:27 <benjamingoodger> "the nineties are not important!" 01:01:09 <Antdovu> you and your personalities were all misunderstood 01:01:43 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-181.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:02:03 <benjamingoodger> wha? 01:04:19 <benjamingoodger> "there is no such thing as alternative medicine---if something works in trials, it ceases to be 'alternative'. therefore, all 'alternative' medicine is actually stuff that doesn't actually work" 01:06:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that video of Antdovu's was not funny... 01:07:26 <benjamingoodger> subjectivity warning 01:07:31 <benjamingoodger> it was funnier than yours 01:07:34 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-68-42-180-23.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:36 <benjamingoodger> subjectivity warning concludes 01:08:06 <Eddi|zuHause> your subjectivity is too subjective for me 01:08:22 <Patrick> what about things for which hunches exist, and which trials will eventually deem useful 01:08:30 <Patrick> but which currently is not rigorously proven to work 01:08:39 <benjamingoodger> well, then 01:08:45 <benjamingoodger> if it's not proven to work, then it's rubbish 01:08:48 <Patrick> they're inseperable from the bullshit because there's no rigorous evidence 01:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> witch trials you deem useful? 01:09:14 <Patrick> but if a trial has never been done, there's some scale of judgement used to assign trials to possible leads 01:09:33 <Patrick> some alternative medicine is clearly BS and some is promoted to mainstream through careful study. 01:09:55 <benjamingoodger> well, if it is proven to work, then, yes, it becomes ordinary medicine 01:09:56 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-68-40-190-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:09:57 <Patrick> the distinction between the two is where the money is 01:10:12 <Patrick> that is, alt.med that's bollocks, and alt.med that has a good chance of being real 01:10:41 <benjamingoodger> well, the former is alt.med, and the latter is new and/or unproven 01:11:18 <appe> how do i drag signals so it only gets one-wayed? 01:11:38 <benjamingoodger> appe: place a single signal, set it to one-way, then start your drag on that signal 01:11:47 <appe> ooh 01:11:50 <appe> thank you. 01:11:54 <benjamingoodger> 's'ok 01:11:56 <Patrick> benjamingoodger: I would argue that there are items of alternative medicine that may eventually make the transition 01:12:46 <benjamingoodger> the trouble is, nearly all natural cures were tested extensively decades ago 01:13:00 <benjamingoodger> the ones that worked were refined and made into overpriced pills with funny names 01:13:21 <Patrick> hmm 01:13:22 <Patrick> true 01:13:23 <benjamingoodger> the remainder are diluted into impossible dilutions and labelled "alternative medicine" to avoid regulation 01:13:29 <Patrick> new leads come from obscure place 01:13:39 <Patrick> like the organochlorine from tree frogs 01:13:51 <benjamingoodger> well, yes, but that's hardly alternative 01:13:52 <Patrick> trivial molecule, unknown mode of action in painkilling 01:14:01 <benjamingoodger> it's just unstudied 01:14:01 <Patrick> I see where you're coming from 01:14:28 <benjamingoodger> stuff doesn't become alternative, until it has been rejected by proper medicine (because, in the absence of mistrial, it's useless) 01:14:35 <Patrick> anything the alternative community gets thier hands on is either a castoff from the drug industry or just total bollocks like, well, total bollocks 01:14:50 <benjamingoodger> absolument 01:14:58 <benjamingoodger> except chiropractic. :P 01:15:04 <benjamingoodger> well, to a large extent 01:15:51 <benjamingoodger> for instance, my back used to hurt, and be curved to a ludicrous degree, thus impeding my breathing to a noticeable degree 01:16:04 <benjamingoodger> now that it has been straightened, it no longer hurts 01:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> except it's spelled absolutement 01:16:13 <benjamingoodger> quiet, you 01:16:16 <Patrick> hmm, back problems 01:16:19 <benjamingoodger> therefore, it was a succes 01:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just all the "t"s and "e"s are silent in french :p 01:16:35 <benjamingoodger> ah 01:16:38 <Patrick> there are many reasons why it could have reduced your apparent pain 01:16:55 <benjamingoodger> I've never knowingly seen a french person spell it, is all 01:16:56 <Patrick> only one of which is "it fixed the problem as you describe, in the way you describe" 01:17:09 <Patrick> actually, I've just realised I'm a huge fucking hypocrite 01:17:16 <Patrick> because I take 10 grams of vitamin C a day 01:17:24 <Patrick> irregardless of how healthy I feel 01:17:25 <benjamingoodger> that's not alternative medicine 01:17:31 <benjamingoodger> that's vitamin C megadosing 01:17:39 <Patrick> the cards are still up in the air about it 01:17:50 <Patrick> it's a matter of opinion for doctors, therefore it's not mainstream 01:18:00 <Patrick> and it's not an official treatment for many things it should be 01:18:05 <Patrick> (imo) 01:18:08 <benjamingoodger> well, no 01:18:24 <benjamingoodger> but humans in general are horrifyingly malnourished as far as vitamin c is concerned... 01:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> taking vitamins by pills is (imho) a bad idea 01:18:40 <benjamingoodger> I might consider 10g a bit excessive, but we definitely need much, much more in our diet 01:18:45 <Patrick> the evidence to suggest we need a lot more than the RDA is compelling 01:19:05 <benjamingoodger> yes, Eddi|zuHause raises a good point, pills < fruit 01:19:10 <Patrick> given that every mammal has roughly the same body-mass-to-internally-generated-vitamin-C ratio 01:19:20 <Patrick> which would calculate for a human to be about 5-10 grams a day 01:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you should instead change your eating habits to things that contain these vitamins naturally 01:19:27 <benjamingoodger> yep 01:19:33 <benjamingoodger> well... 01:19:41 <Patrick> you'd have to eat nothing but peppers and rose hips 01:19:48 <benjamingoodger> I'd find it extremely difficult to eat 10g of vitamin c daily. 01:19:52 <Patrick> which is what was theorised to happen to our ancestors :) 01:20:08 <Patrick> like, actually just 5kg of bell peppers a day or something 01:20:14 <Patrick> anyway, I drink it in solution in water 01:20:20 <benjamingoodger> however, since it's virtually impossible to overdose on the stuff, I say cram the pills down your throat until you choke on them 01:20:27 <Patrick> GI absorption is the same mechanism as dietary 01:20:31 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06979.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> humanity has survived 10 thousand years without that kind of vitamin C overdose 01:20:48 <Patrick> barely 01:21:07 <Patrick> why do you think guinea pig is a synonym for medicinal experimental subject 01:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "barely" is perfectly fine in most natural environments 01:21:36 <benjamingoodger> regrettably, the modern diet of the average human is shockingly dissimilar to that of 8,000 BC homosapiens 01:21:38 <Patrick> they suffer from many of the same medical conditions we do that no other animals seem to, bare a few isolated examples 01:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> nature does not do anything more than is absolutelly necessary 01:21:52 <Patrick> guess what, guineas can't synthesise vitamin C in vivo either 01:21:54 <benjamingoodger> for instance, we eat carbohydrates 01:21:56 <Patrick> yeah 01:22:12 <benjamingoodger> which are known to be really, really, _really_ unhealthy 01:22:14 <Patrick> like, it was an evolutionary advantage to lose the enzyme functionality, when we were getting it in our diet 01:22:33 <Patrick> saving energy -> more likely to reproduce 01:23:07 <benjamingoodger> however, we are no longer based entirely in the forests of east africa, and therefore now somewhat less likely to be stuffing our faces with fruits all day 01:23:13 <Patrick> quite. 01:23:20 <Patrick> the body made do with other oxidants 01:23:29 <benjamingoodger> eh, antioxidants 01:23:34 <Patrick> it's not possible to mutate an enzyme back into action 01:23:40 <Patrick> so we limped along 01:23:51 <benjamingoodger> starting around 900 AD, we've managed to completely revamp our diets 01:24:12 <Patrick> also, human evolution's stopped in the last 10,000 years or so 01:24:29 <benjamingoodger> meat and vegetables are out, artificially bred starches and the milk of a distantly related mammal are in 01:24:47 <Patrick> ssh 01:24:54 <Patrick> I just had a cheese sandwich 01:24:56 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:24:59 <Patrick> what about potatoes? 01:25:07 <Patrick> I read about a diet once 01:25:10 <Patrick> the paleolithic diet 01:25:19 <Patrick> you're only allowed stuff that people can eat raw 01:25:19 <benjamingoodger> the modern potato is rather bigger than its forebear 01:25:25 <Patrick> no corn, no potatoes 01:25:35 <Patrick> you can of course cook what's allowed, but no starches :) 01:25:39 <benjamingoodger> mmm 01:25:40 <Patrick> argh sleep 01:25:41 <Patrick> later 01:25:45 <benjamingoodger> well, starch is of course a human invention 01:25:57 <benjamingoodger> and, like most of our inventions, bad for us 01:26:08 <benjamingoodger> byee 01:26:17 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: you still here? :D 01:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no... i _was_ falling asleep... 01:26:44 <benjamingoodger> ah, sorry 01:36:09 <benjamingoodger> some of these questions scare me 01:36:10 <benjamingoodger> http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx 01:36:20 <benjamingoodger> the idea that any US citizen could get them wrong... 01:38:35 <benjamingoodger> I got 73% 01:38:37 <benjamingoodger> I am English 01:39:16 <benjamingoodger> slashdot tells me that the US's elected officials scored 44% 01:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i am guessing half the time 01:41:59 <benjamingoodger> some of them are sickeningly obvious 01:42:09 <benjamingoodger> "name two of the US's enemies during WW2" 01:42:51 <Sacro> "B. advocated black separatism" 01:42:53 * Sacro clicks 01:43:45 <Eddi|zuHause> for example, i have no idea how the first few amendments are ordered 01:43:45 <benjamingoodger> you would have to be _appallingly_ stupid not to know the answer to the above question 01:43:50 <Sacro> benjamingoodger: aren't two of those correct? 01:43:56 <Sacro> "China and Russia"? 01:44:05 <benjamingoodger> no, no, certainly not 01:44:12 <Sacro> russia was at first 01:44:21 <Sacro> until germany turned on them 01:44:25 <benjamingoodger> china was not yet communist 01:44:39 <benjamingoodger> and the Soviets were, throughout the actual war, allied with the, er, Allies 01:45:10 <benjamingoodger> only 68% of american citizens got that correct... it's sickening 01:46:13 <vraa> i got 31 out of 33 correct 01:46:23 <benjamingoodger> are you a US citizen? 01:47:10 <vraa> yeah, i'm from texas 01:47:13 <vraa> and i'm an econ major 01:47:19 <benjamingoodger> ah 01:47:25 <vraa> i think 33 is wrong, i said it's A, the answer it says is D 01:47:35 <vraa> A makes more sense than D 01:47:49 <benjamingoodger> no, it does not 01:47:54 <vraa> i also missed number 7, i'll be honest, i didn't know so i guessed B 01:48:01 <vraa> please explain why 01:48:16 <vraa> if taxes equal government spending, then: tax per person equals government spending per person? 01:48:19 <vraa> that doesn't make sense 01:48:29 <vraa> you can tax 1 guy and spend all his money, then taxes will be equal to gov't spending 01:48:36 <vraa> that doesn't mean that tax per person = gov't spending per person 01:48:38 <appe> i just got heavy problems 01:48:47 <vraa> especially if you taxed him and spent all themoney on hookers and coke 01:49:05 <benjamingoodger> er, actually, it's a matter of simple algebra 01:49:11 <appe> i have multiple trains leaving coal at a station. i accidentaly deleted the station, and rebuilded it. i had to redo the orders on all the trains, but now they refuse to leave everything there, but a small part of it. 01:49:12 <vraa> A is the correct answer for 33. if gov't spends as much as it pulls in in taxes, it can't have a debt of zero 01:49:15 <appe> :( 01:49:22 <benjamingoodger> if you collect from everyone and spend it all, then tax = spending (0m = 0m) 01:49:38 <benjamingoodger> dividing by the number of people gives you the tax per person and the spend per person 01:49:46 <vraa> oh, that's what it means, i thought it meant if it collected 100$, the spending of stuff for that person would be 100$ 01:49:48 <benjamingoodger> so divide both sides by 300m 01:49:53 <benjamingoodger> ah 01:49:54 <benjamingoodger> no 01:49:59 <vraa> yes your way makes a lot more sense 01:50:36 <vraa> well we will chalk that one up to carelessness :( 01:50:42 <benjamingoodger> ...and if you have a preexisting debt caused by an illiterate son of an oil baron, and your spending is equal to your income, then you will neither increase nor decrease the debt. 01:50:53 <appe> i dont get it 01:51:05 <vraa> yeah but i thought we were assuming no preexisting debt 01:51:22 <benjamingoodger> why? it doesn't say that 01:51:23 <vraa> i think a few of the questions were vauge, but due to some of the answer choices being oviously wrong, it was easy to pick what the right answer "should" be 01:51:28 <benjamingoodger> #7... yes, I missed that one too. I thought it sounded jeffersonian 01:51:50 <vraa> overall, i think this quiz should be mandatory for the citizenship test 01:51:55 <vraa> and i dont think birthright citizenship should exist 01:52:02 <vraa> some of these questions are thought-provoking 01:52:04 <benjamingoodger> that's a terrible idea 01:52:12 <vraa> why 01:52:21 <benjamingoodger> you'd deport hundreds of millions of hardworking morons :P 01:52:39 <appe> quiz? language quiz? 01:52:42 <vraa> http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx 01:52:49 <benjamingoodger> possibly up to 220m people 01:52:50 <vraa> i wouldn't deport... 01:52:55 <vraa> i believe in freemarket of labor 01:53:01 <vraa> no immigration rules/laws/quotas 01:53:07 <benjamingoodger> what do you do to those who don't pass the citizenship test, then? 01:53:10 <vraa> however, citizenship is hard to get 01:53:14 <vraa> they dont get citizenship 01:53:23 <vraa> just because you aren't an american citizen doesn't mean you can't stay in america 01:53:25 <benjamingoodger> how does this affect their lives? 01:53:32 <vraa> you just can't vote, and a few other minor things i believe 01:53:37 <benjamingoodger> ah 01:53:56 <vraa> i would probably expand it though, like being able to own a firearm 01:53:58 <benjamingoodger> so, in other words, you want to restrict voting to a minority of people who know what they're on about 01:54:00 <benjamingoodger> excellent idea! 01:54:01 <appe> wtf 01:54:08 <appe> my trains only leaves half of what they have 01:54:13 <vraa> i think you have to be an american citizen to vote already 01:54:18 <benjamingoodger> except the part about firearms 01:54:33 <vraa> i think you should have citizenship to own a gun, how is it right now? 01:54:46 <vraa> don't you have to pass background checks and what not, that's good 01:54:54 <vraa> the nice thing about a strict citizenship test means you can use it for other things too 01:54:58 <benjamingoodger> I think you have to have citizenship to own a gun 01:55:11 <benjamingoodger> however, in europe, we simply don't allow the blasted things, and that seems to work rather better 01:55:15 <vraa> perhaps 01:55:27 <vraa> but in america the perception of freedom is different 01:55:29 <benjamingoodger> our policemen are unarmed by default, we have no people shooting their families by accident, etc 01:55:51 <benjamingoodger> freedom applies to your right to do stuff to yourself, not to other people 01:55:52 <vraa> america is different from rest of world 01:56:19 <vraa> one of the things the founding fathers thought would be smart to do to ourselves was defend ourselves 01:56:23 <benjamingoodger> yes 01:56:30 <vraa> the right to bear arms is supposed to i think, be to form a militia 01:56:34 <vraa> and be able to over throw the govt 01:56:35 <benjamingoodger> quite 01:56:40 <benjamingoodger> second amendment woot 01:56:48 <vraa> but i think thanks to the spectacularly advanced american military, that's kinda a lost cause 01:56:56 <benjamingoodger> quite 01:57:08 <vraa> i wouldn't want to see a coup though 01:57:13 <vraa> especially in texas 01:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> You answered 26 out of 33 correctly â 78.79 % 01:57:35 <benjamingoodger> why especially in texas? 01:57:49 <vraa> who doesn't have a gun in texas? 01:57:55 <benjamingoodger> I don't know 01:58:14 <vraa> i dont, but i know the houses on my left and right, across the street, and on their left and right are stocked with guns 01:58:21 <vraa> like gun safes full of guns 01:58:24 <benjamingoodger> mmhmm 01:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think many of the questions are actually very difficult 01:58:37 <benjamingoodger> we're well aware of that. and, no offence to you personally, this is why we laugh at you 01:58:41 <vraa> i'm sure they've got enough to supply te entire neighborhood, so if it came down to an invasion things would be nuts 01:58:45 <benjamingoodger> well...part of the reason 01:58:50 <benjamingoodger> quite. 01:59:07 <vraa> well think of it this way: for many other countries they can identify themselves through their ethnicity 01:59:19 <vraa> in america, it's harder to do that, it's much more synthetic 01:59:26 <benjamingoodger> though really, I must point out that the second amendment is just a hangover from the 1790s, and has no relevance today, particularly as the british army has gone to iraq 01:59:48 <vraa> well hangover or not, there should be more and it should've been more clear 01:59:59 <vraa> i dont think anyone really cares about any of that these days 02:00:05 <vraa> politics just does what it does 02:00:53 <benjamingoodger> if only people hadn't stopped paying attention to the founding fathers 02:01:07 <vraa> can you blame them though 02:01:15 <benjamingoodger> frankly, yes, I can 02:01:16 <vraa> who has the time to pay attention to what goes on 02:01:30 <benjamingoodger> well, I do, and I'm several thousand miles away 02:01:46 <vraa> how many kids do you have, do you work? 02:02:07 <vraa> the problem with politics is that it's driven by those who aren't satisfied with the way things are 02:02:21 <vraa> by the nature of politics, only the most aggressive succeed 02:02:46 <vraa> those who work well at being able to get their way, so the entir eprocess of politics isn't refining to be the most efficient, but by doing the wishes of whoever is in power 02:02:56 <benjamingoodger> I hope never to reproduce, I'm at college studying for an MBA (which here is not a wishy-washy degree for rich and stupid people) 02:03:00 <vraa> it would work better if we had more parties 02:03:06 <benjamingoodger> yes, it would 02:04:09 <benjamingoodger> you don't want to go too far, though 02:04:30 <benjamingoodger> in many european countries there are so many parties that nothing ever gets done because nobody can agree on anything 02:04:41 <vraa> well we can't just have 2, that's stupid. 3 doesn't work either because 1 would always cause the loss of the other 02:04:47 <vraa> i think 5 or more but less than 7 02:04:55 <vraa> i mean less than 10 02:05:04 <benjamingoodger> hm 02:05:09 <vraa> gridlock is fine with me, the less gov't does = better 02:05:32 <benjamingoodger> ah, yes, let's leave everything to large companies. they have our best interests at heart, after all 02:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <vraa> that doesn't mean that tax per person = gov't spending per person <- if a = b, then a/n = b/n, very simple maths... 02:06:11 <vraa> yeah Eddi|zuHause, i thought that means taxing 100$ from person a means you'll spend 100$ on person a 02:06:16 <vraa> i just completely mis understood the question 02:06:31 <benjamingoodger> well, ideally, you will 02:06:39 <benjamingoodger> otherwise that person is either being subsidised or subsidising 02:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, with a statistical variance ;) 02:06:51 <vraa> yeah corporatism is severely flawed 02:06:57 <benjamingoodger> but if you aren't subsidising anyone, then taxes are useless 02:07:23 <vraa> no 02:07:30 <vraa> well 02:07:55 <vraa> we'll have a revolution "soon" in government types 02:08:05 <vraa> the government to emerge will be, i think, one of more risky attitudes 02:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, taxes are so you are forced to pay for something that has no direct benefit for you 02:08:24 <vraa> a government which will tax and then spend money on random super high return high volitility investments 02:08:37 <vraa> like fusion 02:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean risk even more than a war with half the world? 02:08:39 <vraa> space travel 02:08:52 <vraa> military spending is amazing, it drives so much R&D 02:08:57 <benjamingoodger> strictly speaking, taxation is a counterinflationary measure 02:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> AGAINST the will of the other half of the world, too? 02:09:33 <vraa> fiat currencies are inflationary inherently 02:09:39 <vraa> who cares about the rest of the world 02:09:43 <vraa> america! fuck yeah! 02:09:46 <benjamingoodger> *ahem* 02:09:50 <benjamingoodger> perhaps, we? 02:09:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.211.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:58 <benjamingoodger> that is to say, we, the rest of the world 02:10:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the rest of the world, i presume ;) 02:10:02 <vraa> don't worry, as long as you're on the good guys side, you won't be bomed 02:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm a communist bastard 02:10:25 <benjamingoodger> who gets to decide whether the side we're on is the good side? 02:10:33 <vraa> easy -- yes or no: are you a terrorist 02:10:39 <vraa> if yes, then bomb. if no, exit 02:11:01 <benjamingoodger> your government hasn't been very efficient in that, though 02:11:20 <vraa> that's what happens when you put idiots in charge 02:11:21 *** michi_cc [dec97243f6@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:28 <vraa> america is going through the dumb phase 02:11:39 <benjamingoodger> it has killed countless hundreds of thousands of civilians, and over seven years of "searching" a surprisingly small area of land, has still not located Osama bin Laden 02:11:55 <vraa> the goal never was obl 02:12:05 <vraa> it's to prevent iran from securing regional hegemony 02:12:26 <benjamingoodger> I thought the goal was to prevent iraq from bombing malta? 02:12:53 <vraa> if malta has oil, then yes, that is the goal 02:12:54 <benjamingoodger> and before that, to prevent the taliban from demolishing another pair of office blocks 02:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the goal was demagogy and bathing in black liquid 02:13:16 <benjamingoodger> malta has no oil, iraq had no bombs 02:13:22 <vraa> iraq has oil though 02:13:28 <benjamingoodger> iraq did start trading oil in euros, however, in 2002 02:13:52 <benjamingoodger> which is bad for the US on so many levels I can't even begin to describe them without accidentally being awarded a PhD in economics 02:13:55 <vraa> therefore, we should invade europe next 02:14:12 <benjamingoodger> ...notably, we have no oil either 02:14:17 <benjamingoodger> or terrorists 02:14:21 <vraa> yeah that's why you guys aren't on the target list yet 02:14:23 <benjamingoodger> we do, however, have more money than the US 02:14:27 <benjamingoodger> much more 02:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, britain is an OPEC state 02:14:33 <vraa> lol that's fine 02:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and austria was self-supplying with oil for a long time 02:15:00 <benjamingoodger> we have .1trn more than you 02:15:04 <vraa> i can't wait until oil is no longer relevant to politics 02:15:08 <vraa> i say 50 years 02:15:10 <benjamingoodger> *cracks knuckles* 02:15:16 <vraa> maybe less, if we can start consuming faster 02:16:05 <benjamingoodger> hmm 02:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> germans just sit on their technology to transform coal into fuel ;) 02:16:18 <vraa> coal is nasty 02:16:18 <benjamingoodger> europe + japan > US by trn 02:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> (developed in the 1940's) 02:16:39 <benjamingoodger> *cough*'20s*cough* 02:17:08 <benjamingoodger> I nearly still remember the formula... 02:17:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "developed" != "invented" 02:17:18 <benjamingoodger> pah! 02:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "developed" meaning in significant production use 02:17:59 <benjamingoodger> of course, the US could reduce its oil consumption staggeringly quickly by switching to <2.0litre 4cyl diesel engines on new cars 02:18:08 <vraa> reduce? 02:18:10 <vraa> no it must increase 02:18:12 <benjamingoodger> well 02:18:13 <benjamingoodger> no 02:18:13 <vraa> same with europe 02:18:15 <benjamingoodger> halve 02:18:20 <vraa> high oil prices are a good thing 02:18:28 <benjamingoodger> er, actually, they're not. 02:18:34 <vraa> what are you smoking man 02:18:41 <vraa> the sooner we can run out of oil the better 02:18:47 <benjamingoodger> 0.0 02:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> fuel prices dropped by 30% in the past few weeks ;) 02:19:01 <benjamingoodger> see, this is why texas is not known for its economists 02:19:09 <vraa> oil is not going to last forever 02:19:22 <vraa> i tell many republican friends this "you cannot drill yourself out" 02:19:33 <vraa> energy should not be reduced 02:19:36 <benjamingoodger> well, it's cheaper at this point 02:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you do realise that oil is not only used for fuel 02:19:43 <vraa> civilizations can be based entirely on how much energy they consume 02:19:51 <benjamingoodger> whoops, didn't mean to say that 02:19:52 <benjamingoodger> yes... 02:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and now go counting all objects in your house that consist of plastics 02:20:13 <vraa> plastics are chosen because of ease of manufacturing 02:20:22 <benjamingoodger> ...what? 02:20:23 <vraa> that's not a big deal, i believe in creative destruction 02:20:32 <benjamingoodger> they're chosen for their unique properties 02:20:38 <vraa> and ease of manufacturing 02:20:46 <vraa> that's what design for manufacturing says 02:20:53 <benjamingoodger> they're irreplaceable 02:21:11 <benjamingoodger> besides, have you tried making steel without coal? it's quite difficult, I can assure you! 02:21:16 <benjamingoodger> also glass. 02:21:20 <vraa> coal will run out too 02:21:25 <vraa> all of these are finite 02:21:34 <benjamingoodger> we know this 02:21:44 <benjamingoodger> I'm just a little staggered that you think it's somehow beneficial 02:23:11 <vraa> higher oil prices will drive growth in alternative sources 02:23:33 <benjamingoodger> not really... 02:23:53 <vraa> you should've seen the crap going on a few months ago 02:24:00 <vraa> people wanted oil execs head on pikes 02:24:06 <vraa> tesla was getting major attention 02:24:16 <benjamingoodger> indeed 02:24:22 <vraa> chrysler was unveiling 2 electric vehicles, chevy was being critcized about the volt 02:24:24 <vraa> then oil prices dropped 02:24:26 <benjamingoodger> when the tesla is available outside california, be sure to tell me 02:24:28 <vraa> and no one gives a shit anymore 02:24:40 <vraa> tesla is an example of the growth i'm talking about 02:24:43 <benjamingoodger> see, this is the most infuriating thing about fucking americans 02:24:49 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:25:09 <benjamingoodger> the instant gas prices hit /gal, which incidentally is a third of the price it is here, you all swoon for hybrids that do 45mpg 02:25:12 <vraa> they have 5 second long attention spans? 02:25:21 <vraa> yeah and when they go back down, back to the SUVs 02:25:29 <benjamingoodger> no! that's not the point! 02:25:33 <vraa> it'll come to an end soon, it's a by product of american consumerism 02:25:40 <benjamingoodger> a european diesel does 70mpg and costs half the price of a hybrid 02:25:57 <vraa> diesels are nasty 02:26:03 <vraa> besides, hybrids are the future 02:26:07 <benjamingoodger> bollocks 02:26:15 <benjamingoodger> hybrids are inferior to current diesel technology 02:26:19 <vraa> yeah currently 02:26:26 <benjamingoodger> they're not the future, they're somewhere in the distant past 02:26:38 <vraa> diesel hybrids would be nice 02:26:41 <vraa> i think trains are that way 02:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hybrids do not pose any significant advantage over pure fossil fuel engines 02:26:57 <vraa> once batteries or whatever are more advanced, then hybrids will become all electrics 02:27:02 <benjamingoodger> not in the way you are thinking of 02:27:11 <vraa> hybrids are just a transitionary stage 02:27:21 <benjamingoodger> yes 02:27:28 <vraa> just like capitalism is for socialism 02:27:28 <benjamingoodger> they are, therefore, a pointless marketing stunt 02:27:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hybrids have nothing to do with transition 02:27:44 <benjamingoodger> do you mean regulated capitalism? 02:27:50 <benjamingoodger> socialism has been tried, and failed, failed badly 02:27:53 <vraa> no, technological socialism 02:27:55 <vraa> robots can be slaves 02:27:59 <vraa> and it's a lot less immoral 02:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> how does slavery fit with your impression of what socialism is supposed to be? 02:29:01 <benjamingoodger> ..yes, that's a good point 02:29:10 <vraa> i dont think they were tied together 02:29:17 <benjamingoodger> ...good 02:29:34 <vraa> unless you wantt o count robots as a "race" 02:29:36 <vraa> which is dumb 02:29:45 <benjamingoodger> quite 02:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, robots were introduced years ago, and all they did for "socialism" was lowly edjucated workers protesting that they'll lose their jobs 02:29:57 <vraa> it'd be nice if all work was done by robots 02:30:13 <benjamingoodger> you've clearly never been to japan 02:30:26 <benjamingoodger> by the way, in what measure are diesels nasty? 02:30:42 <vraa> i've heard japanese culture is so xenophobic, they would rather have robots rather than fillipina maids 02:30:51 <vraa> nasty doesn't mean disgusting, nasty just means unacceptable 02:30:59 <vraa> diesels are popular, in trucks 02:30:59 <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬ 02:31:04 <benjamingoodger> why are they unacceptable, then? 02:31:22 <vraa> probably something that happened in ghte 80s 02:31:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-179-116.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:31:33 <vraa> i dunno, diesels were dead before i was aware of my environment 02:31:42 <benjamingoodger> so you don't know 02:31:42 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:32:00 <Eddi|zuHause> diesels are dead? in which world? 02:32:05 <benjamingoodger> the US 02:32:19 <vraa> the problem i think boils down to a lack of serious competition 02:32:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of diesel cars is consistently rising in europe for decades 02:32:23 <vraa> who is going to build a diesel car in america 02:32:28 <vraa> ford and gm are incapable of doing ANYTHING 02:32:36 <vraa> toyota and honda are on the hybrid wagon 02:32:44 <benjamingoodger> actually, Ford Europe produce one of the finest diesels in the world 02:32:56 <vraa> ford europe is the only part of ford that is awake 02:33:04 <benjamingoodger> Opel [GM's euro subsidiary] also produce very, very good diesel engines 02:33:05 <vraa> the rest of ford is dying, dead, or in the process of being shot in the pasture 02:33:13 <benjamingoodger> I'm well aware of this 02:33:18 <vraa> opel the same, there is a reason why a chinese company wants to buy open for 1.6$b 02:34:02 <vraa> http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2008/11/14/10-cars-that-sank-detroit.html 02:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> opel only still exists for GM to drain germany's car subsidies 02:34:31 <benjamingoodger> hmm 02:34:34 <vraa> http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-10-09-auto-exec-pay_N.htm 02:34:35 <benjamingoodger> I wouldn't know 02:34:40 <benjamingoodger> but I do know they make good cars 02:34:49 <vraa> maybe in europe 02:34:57 <vraa> in america, american cars suck. hard. 02:35:05 <benjamingoodger> actually, they build them in the US also 02:35:13 <benjamingoodger> you've never heard of Saturn? 02:35:27 <vraa> i have, they make plastic cars 02:35:36 <vraa> one of their commericals had a fat kid run into the side of the car and bounce off 02:35:43 <benjamingoodger> that's Opel's brand in the US 02:35:57 <benjamingoodger> the Saturn Astra is a runaway success in the United Kingdom 02:36:13 <benjamingoodger> and it comes with a really good diesel engine 02:36:27 <benjamingoodger> the Honda Accord and Toyota Corolla also come with really good diesels in the UK 02:36:35 <vraa> and in india too 02:36:45 <benjamingoodger> no doubt 02:36:53 <benjamingoodger> so, overall, there is no excuse for the US not to use diesels 02:37:05 <benjamingoodger> it's even cheaper per gallon 02:37:09 <vraa> i wonder if it's a chicken or the egg situation 02:37:25 <benjamingoodger> I think it's the egg 02:37:57 <benjamingoodger> when gas prices get high enough, diesel infrastructure will start to appear, and people will start buying diesel consumer cars 02:38:18 <vraa> so we go back to 'high gas prices = good' 02:38:30 <vraa> i think at the very minimum, gas prices in usa should equal that of those in UK 02:38:35 <vraa> i heard in UK it's equal to 7$/gal 02:38:44 <benjamingoodger> let me check 02:38:48 <benjamingoodger> it's been plummetting recently 02:38:57 <benjamingoodger> obviously so has the pound relative to the dollar 02:39:19 <benjamingoodger> atm it's /gal 02:39:29 <vraa> http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html 02:39:36 <benjamingoodger> or 90.9p/litre 02:39:47 <benjamingoodger> but it hit £1.16/litre not so long ago 02:40:13 <benjamingoodger> however, considering the recent drops in crude prices, it ought to be around 80p 02:40:23 <vraa> i saw 1.70 something today for regular 02:40:35 <vraa> 2.10 or so for 94 premium/supreme or whatever the top is 02:40:36 <benjamingoodger> $/gal? 02:40:42 <benjamingoodger> NINETY-FOUR? 02:40:46 <benjamingoodger> good GOD 02:40:53 <vraa> 94 octane? 02:41:06 <benjamingoodger> our regular is 95 02:41:07 <vraa> 2.10$/gal for 94 octane 02:41:12 <benjamingoodger> premium is 98 02:41:32 <benjamingoodger> 98 is currently at .90 02:41:50 <benjamingoodger> by christ, you people put dishwater into your cars 02:41:54 <benjamingoodger> no wonder they run so poorly 02:42:05 <glx> .90 is a lot 02:42:12 <Belugas> 75.9/litre in here nice price 02:42:32 <glx> ho it's per gal 02:42:37 <Belugas> cents... 02:42:39 <glx> silly units 02:43:05 <benjamingoodger> glx: £1.06/l 02:43:21 <Belugas> expensive! 02:43:25 <benjamingoodger> that's, what, 1.17 â¬/l at current exchange rates 02:43:34 <benjamingoodger> that's for premium 98, though 02:43:48 <benjamingoodger> and it's continuing to, well, collapse 02:44:00 <glx> 20 days ago it was 1.241â¬/l 02:44:09 <Belugas> ho.. true... cheaper price, but crappier quality 02:44:25 <benjamingoodger> mmm 02:45:01 <benjamingoodger> I buy the 95, because I can't afford to buy it at all 02:45:15 <benjamingoodger> as my car is a 1996 petrol engine that gets about 9.5 l/100km 02:45:18 <glx> I buy 98 because the car was designed for 97 02:45:40 <benjamingoodger> ironically, it has "premium 95" stamped on the filler cap ^^ 02:46:17 <vraa> really? i think it goes from 84 87 to 91 or 94 octane 02:46:22 <vraa> depending on where you go 02:46:27 <benjamingoodger> good grief 02:46:30 <vraa> race gas is 104 or higher octane, at least here in texas 02:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <benjamingoodger> NINETY-FOUR? <- the americans use a different system for determining octane numbers 02:46:48 <benjamingoodger> I think it's a minimum of 95 by law here 02:46:52 <vraa> yeah (R+S)/M or something weird 02:46:52 <benjamingoodger> oh? 02:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's roughly 4 to 5 numbers lower 02:47:01 <glx> well the car was designed for super in 1978 (dunno what octane it was at that time) but it's a '88 model and in 1988 it was 97 02:47:35 <vraa> 87 here is 91-92 for you guys 02:47:54 <benjamingoodger> ah... 02:47:56 <vraa> there is about a 5 point spread 02:48:01 <vraa> so 100 for you guys is 95 for us 02:48:08 <vraa> that's what wikipedia is saying 02:48:13 <benjamingoodger> right 02:48:23 <benjamingoodger> in that case, 98 would be ~93 02:48:25 <benjamingoodger> ok, that's acceptable 02:48:25 <glx> depends on researched octane and real octane IIRC 02:48:41 <benjamingoodger> nonetheless, 84 is ludicrously crappy 02:48:45 <vraa> ~93 would only go in nice cars 02:48:56 <vraa> 84 doesn't exist, sorry 02:48:58 <vraa> 87 is the lowest 02:49:01 <vraa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:09-03-06-Octane.jpg 02:49:09 <glx> I rememember seeing 97 (87) at the time leaded super was still available 02:49:11 <vraa> usually my gas tation as 87, 89, and 94 i think 02:49:37 <Eddi|zuHause> 95 is the standard in germany nowadays, the 91 one is subsequently phased out 02:49:55 <vraa> i know in germany they take driving and cars seriously 02:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> started by the fact that they are the same price now ;) 02:50:01 <vraa> i wish america had strict regulation like germany 02:50:06 <glx> 95 is eurosuper :) 02:50:17 <vraa> our roads here are less thick, so they are lesser quality, and our yearly automotive inspections are a joke 02:50:53 <vraa> to obtain a drivers license, you dont even have to drive a car 02:50:57 <glx> everything with wheels and engine is allowed in USA I think 02:51:08 <vraa> pretty much, if not under regular rules, under kit car rules 02:51:47 <benjamingoodger> my father failed his driving test four times 02:52:00 <glx> I needed 3 times to get it 02:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, germany is at the higher end of the "food chain" for cars... 02:52:10 <benjamingoodger> he had a vehicle known as a reliant robin, which was a nasty little three-wheeled van 02:52:23 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: TUV is the stricter 02:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> cars that get sold because they are not traffic-safe anymore go to eastern europe, africa or south america ;) 02:52:31 <benjamingoodger> this was driveable on a motorcycle license, but you could take your car driving test in it 02:53:10 <benjamingoodger> so my father drove his reliant robin, on his motorcycle license, to the test centre, failed his car driving test in it, and then drove it home again on the motorcycle license 02:53:27 <benjamingoodger> fortunately, that particular loophole has been plugged, and driving tests are now a gruelling ordeal 02:54:01 <benjamingoodger> which made me, passing it first time in May this year, all the more proud ^^ 02:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand how you can fail a driving test... 02:54:25 <glx> round about 02:54:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you spend weeks and thousands of euro in training 02:54:30 <benjamingoodger> stalling is an instant fail here 02:54:31 <glx> 2 times :) 02:55:09 <glx> (bad placement and no indicators but the round about was empty) 02:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, the french kinda overdid it with the roundabouts :p 02:55:29 <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: you know not the meaning of the phrase "roundabout overuse" 02:55:44 <glx> the magic one? 02:55:59 <benjamingoodger> in britain, we use our invention (the mini-roundabout, which is a white circle on the ground) as a traffic calming measure 02:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the abominations in britain do not count ;) 02:56:07 <benjamingoodger> oh, yes, there's also the magic roundabout... *shudder* 02:57:12 <Eddi|zuHause> use of roundabouts has increased here, too... i find them silly... 02:57:37 <glx> better than having to wait for green light 02:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> if the crossing gets overfull, put a god damn traffic light 02:57:52 <benjamingoodger> oh, we have traffic lights on roundabouts too 02:58:02 <benjamingoodger> don't think we haven't thought of that =P 02:58:06 <glx> here too, it's just silly 02:59:21 <benjamingoodger> our national speed limit is too low as well 02:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> we have a roundabout here, which was considered the most heavlily used road junction in eastern germany. it had tram lines crossing it on multiple places, completely without traffic regulation 03:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> now they put the tram lines one level below the road, and put up traffic lights on the entrances. now it is actually safe to cross that junction :p 03:00:30 <benjamingoodger> heh 03:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, there were rarely days with less than 3 accidents on that place 03:01:06 <benjamingoodger> 0.0 03:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> typically tram vs. car 03:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> and typically the tram won :p 03:02:27 <benjamingoodger> well, of course 03:06:11 <benjamingoodger> hmmm 03:06:21 <benjamingoodger> my dehumidifier seems to be working far too well 03:06:28 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g230003033.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:06:55 <benjamingoodger> I wouldn't have thought the air in this room would even contain a litre of water, let alone be extractable over the course of twenty minutes 03:07:42 *** FloSoft [~sifldoer@g230001089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 03:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> just do the maths, if your room has 12m², and is 2,5m high, how many liters of air is that? and when you derive 1l of water from that, how high is the difference in humidity levels? 03:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd need to figure in the average density of air, though 03:14:50 <benjamingoodger> you know, I really can't be bothered :P 03:15:00 <benjamingoodger> besides, the room isn't a sealed unit 03:15:05 <benjamingoodger> and neither is it rectangular 03:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 12m² is an average room in a central european home, i just gave that as a general figure ;) 03:18:11 <benjamingoodger> very well 03:18:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you certainly don't have your window wide open at these kinds of temperatures ;) 03:18:34 <glx> 2.5m height is not ;) 03:18:44 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 03:19:01 <benjamingoodger> no, but the door is open 03:19:22 <benjamingoodger> the height may well be about 220cm or there abouts... 03:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and you have oceanic climate, so you have higher average humidity levels anyway 03:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> 2,20m? you live in the cellar or something? 03:20:11 <benjamingoodger> I think it's called "maritime" 03:20:16 <benjamingoodger> no, it's a bungalow 03:20:26 <benjamingoodger> hang on, I will try and find a tape measure 03:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd get claustrophobic in that kind of narrow space 03:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> my room is 2,60m iirc 03:21:12 <glx> mine is 1,10 to 2,20 IIRC 03:21:27 <benjamingoodger> the room is 260cm tall 03:23:24 <benjamingoodger> and I'm 185... 03:23:43 <benjamingoodger> damn, I always wanted to be a bit taller than that 03:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i barely fit through regular doors 03:24:42 <benjamingoodger> lucky you 03:25:00 <benjamingoodger> I've learned to time my walking so that my head is at its lowest point when going under doors, to avoid hitting it on the frame 03:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> funny, i've learned to just drag my head in :) 03:26:37 *** michi_cc [5cc70aad03@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 03:26:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 03:27:35 <benjamingoodger> heh 03:48:21 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 03:52:14 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:54:49 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 03:55:44 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 03:55:47 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 04:01:35 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180067173.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:06:34 *** elmex [~elmex@e180069236.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:06:34 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 04:06:58 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 04:09:00 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 04:09:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 04:14:22 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:15:16 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host81-156-74-176.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:31 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host81-156-74-176.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:49:43 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:11 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28DCD8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:13:24 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:38 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 05:26:15 *** FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:50:03 *** FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 05:56:53 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 06:01:34 *** Mark [~M4rk@5ED06979.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:01:38 *** Mark is now known as M4rk 06:01:40 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 06:10:09 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:26 *** AgentLeMan [~AgentLeMa@BAF2779.baf.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 06:34:05 <AgentLeMan> morning... 06:51:12 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 06:55:10 *** Cookiej [Cookiej@cable-82-162.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 06:55:19 <Cookiej> Hey 06:55:35 <AgentLeMan> hehey 06:56:02 <Cookiej> Hey i'm setting up dedicated and uhm working on MoTD for it how do i create script :P? where do i start 06:56:59 <Cookiej> Tryed with Wordpad ofc didn't work gave errors importing so i ghues i'm messing up some cmds hope you can help me a bit maybe provide the first few lines to start? 06:58:19 <Cookiej> think it's a bit 2 early :P 06:58:26 <AgentLeMan> cookie, read here http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd/2007/07/08 from 08:54 on 07:01:05 <Cookiej> Thxz 07:01:23 <AgentLeMan> a pleasure :o) 07:08:59 <Cookiej> forwarded me to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=30489&highlight=onclient+scr 07:09:51 <AgentLeMan> hm, yes, that may be easier to read too 07:14:01 <Cookiej> not realy :P though i should look for an auto Pilot 07:20:35 *** George__ [~chatzilla@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:40 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.117.52] has joined #openttd 07:32:12 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.117.52] has quit [] 07:44:04 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: and /part are sitting on a boat, /part jumps into the water first. Who's left?] 07:44:20 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:44:45 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 07:44:58 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:46:45 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:05 * Cookiej slaps Cookiej around a bit with a large trout 07:49:30 * AgentLeMan slaps trout around a bit with a very large Cookiej 07:49:33 <AgentLeMan> ;o)# 08:00:06 *** vraa [~vraa@h131.227.29.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:21:28 *** George__ [~chatzilla@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 08:28:17 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:30:32 *** AgentLeMan [~AgentLeMa@BAF2779.baf.pppool.de] has quit [] 08:40:37 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 08:41:14 <Fantasya> g' day 08:41:32 <Fantasya> what command for relogin to channel? 08:45:01 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:50:55 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:54:39 <davis_> 09:42 Fantasya: what command for relogin to channel? 08:54:42 <davis_> /hop ? 08:55:28 <petern> /part then /join ? heh 08:57:13 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 08:57:13 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:57:18 <davis_> /hop 08:57:19 <davis_> does 08:57:23 <davis_> the same , with one command 08:58:12 <petern> or /cycle 08:58:35 <petern> those are client commands that do the same as /part then /join, heh 08:59:25 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C898.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:46 <petern> Rubidium, do we still offer torrent downloads? 09:02:33 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 09:02:33 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:02:41 <davis_> didnt know /cycle 09:02:42 <davis_> nice 09:03:42 <mrfrenzy> what do you accomplish by rejoining the channel? 09:03:57 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:04:04 <petern> not much 09:04:29 <davis_> checking topic mostly , or ganining back autoflags 09:05:59 <mrfrenzy> try /topic 09:06:09 <mrfrenzy> and for gaining your flags talk to chanserv 09:06:30 <yorick> he doesn't have flags 09:08:29 <yorick> http://openttd.pastebin.com/m1cc91f5c <-- fixes transfer share on with oilrigs :) 09:13:26 <petern> ouch 09:14:40 <yorick> ? 09:16:22 *** davis_ [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:19:46 <Wolf01> hello 09:21:14 <yorick> hello 09:21:26 <yorick> petern: what's ouch? 09:21:38 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-14-39.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:25:00 <petern> all that extra space for just one corner case 09:25:47 *** George__ [~chatzilla@212.113.107.216] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]] 09:25:52 <petern> do you really need a feeder share for each company? 09:25:57 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FA9A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:26:01 *** George [~chatzilla@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 09:26:07 <yorick> petern, it's part of the IS patch, too 09:26:40 <petern> wouldn't just adding a company field work? 09:26:52 <petern> hmm 09:26:59 <yorick> not really, no 09:27:01 <petern> not that i've thought it through :p 09:27:21 <yorick> it wouldn't be fair if the company delivering the cargo would get all the feeder share, would it? 09:28:24 <yorick> and if the IS patch hits trunk, it isn't so much of a corner case 09:28:58 <petern> so nearly quadrupling the size of a cargopacket doesn't seem a problem to you? 09:29:42 <yorick> your alternative? 09:29:57 <yorick> some feeder_share pool? 09:33:46 *** Skiddles [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:35:55 <George> In TTDP it is not allowed to build bank over historical (protected) building. In OTTD bank can be build over any town building. Is it untended? 09:36:37 <yorick> does openttd even know protected buildings? 09:36:48 <George> IMHO yes 09:36:55 <yorick> then it's untended 09:36:57 <petern> it does, so i guess that bit of them got forgotten 09:37:09 <petern> untended :o 09:37:28 <George> Should I create a bugreport? 09:37:37 <petern> yeah 09:38:45 <Doorslammer> We should really rename that to "untended buggerport" 09:41:05 <Gekz> unfunny 09:41:30 <Gekz> dont mock the non-english speakers 09:41:39 <Gekz> or I get to correct everything TrueBrain says 09:41:42 <Gekz> and that's lots. 09:42:38 <George> Strange, I can't reproduce it. Now get error that town refuses to do it. I have to do more tests :( 09:43:47 <yorick> George, I looked at the code recently, AFAIK it is allowed 09:44:12 <yorick> but maybe it can't clear the square the house is on 09:44:31 <George> Well, should I create a bug report even if I can't reproduce it myself? 09:45:01 <yorick> no :p 09:46:26 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FA9A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:46:56 <yorick> petern, if you can come up with a solution to the feeder shares, please make it so that it's IS-compatible :) 09:47:34 <George> Well, I'll report it as feature request, not a bug 09:47:42 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has left #openttd [] 09:47:42 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 09:48:03 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 09:48:03 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:48:20 <Fantasya> <davis_> /hop ? 09:48:21 <Fantasya> thx 09:48:27 <yorick> it everyone going to try out /cycle or /hop now? 09:48:27 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 09:48:34 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has left #openttd [] 09:48:34 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 09:51:50 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FA9A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:53:49 <Fantasya> brigada :D 09:57:17 <Fantasya> chernyj bumer 10:00:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 10:13:59 <yorick> how do I get the front engine of a train? 10:14:57 <petern> v->First() 10:15:57 <yorick> thanks :) 10:15:57 <Rubidium> petern: I don't think the torrents survived the move and torrents aren't that useful anymore either 10:18:27 *** Zorn [zorn@e177229139.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:35 *** Zorn [zorn@f054000151.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:23:27 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c8d2.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:23:35 *** Hequa [Hequa@212.149.178.192] has joined #openttd 10:24:29 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485DD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:09 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:22 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 10:28:42 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D17C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:31:55 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.117.52] has joined #openttd 10:36:09 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 10:41:57 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-5445016b.lns3-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:46:28 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-5445016b.lns3-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [] 10:53:50 *** Wolfolo|AWAY [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:53:50 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest252 10:53:50 *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 10:59:35 *** Guest252 [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:02:01 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:13:46 *** Hequa [Hequa@212.149.178.192] has quit [] 11:13:49 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 11:16:10 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75D17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 11:24:01 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 11:37:36 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 12:04:04 *** davis- [~suckyours@p5B28F8E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:33 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:18:51 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:20:09 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcf79.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 12:29:27 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:29:27 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:09 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:42:21 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-84-93.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #openttd 12:46:19 <appe> i really, really need to work out today 12:47:00 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:59:04 *** Mark17 [~mark@vnc.tt.streamservice.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:47 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5ad84b52.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:08:47 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14603 /trunk/src/cheat_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2422]: the company ID is off-by-one w.r.t. to the rest of the GUI in the cheat window. 13:09:56 <Gekz> Win. 13:10:03 <Gekz> proves how many people cheat 13:10:04 <Gekz> lol 13:10:07 <Gekz> and tha'ts not many 13:10:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad84b5c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:10:10 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 13:11:41 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:15:40 *** Mark17 [~mark@vnc.tt.streamservice.nl] has joined #openttd 13:28:04 <Patrick> lemme guess, that's a year-zero bug 13:31:43 <Gekz> lol. 13:33:01 <Fantasya> how to enthuse idiot? 13:33:23 <yorick> chuck norris? 13:33:57 <Fantasya> no no 13:34:14 <yorick> yes 13:34:14 <Fantasya> just trooper idiot 13:34:21 <yorick> chucknorrisfacts.com :) 13:34:36 <Fantasya> I know all facts :) 13:34:53 <yorick> If you have five dollars and Chuck Norris has five dollars, Chuck Norris has more money than you. 13:35:16 <Fantasya> :D 13:37:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-156-48.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:40:43 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:41:08 <frosch123> hello glx, would you mind adding "chuck" and "norris" to your script? 13:41:46 <Rubidium> frosch123: just /ignore the idiots; works perfectly fine 13:42:20 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:42:28 <glx> it's not like a command 13:46:00 <yorick> The First rule of Chuck Norris is: you do not talk about Chuck Norris. 13:46:53 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:47:10 <George> Rubidium: FS 2420. Savegame uploaded. even the one after before crash 14:07:54 <dihedral> George, "the one after before crash" <- that is really muddled :-P 14:09:02 <George> I've only built a bank and saved a game 14:10:09 <George> after means after I built a bank. Before crash means before crash. How should I say it? 14:16:22 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 14:25:33 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:26:49 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:26:55 *** yorick is now known as Guest275 14:26:55 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 14:27:23 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:27:25 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 14:32:14 <appe> :o 14:32:50 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:32:53 *** GhostBerg0621337 [~bergee@c-68-40-190-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:10 *** Bergee [~bergee@c-68-40-190-70.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:21 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:27 *** Guest275 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 483 seconds] 14:38:13 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:54 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:43:50 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.45] has joined #openttd 14:59:13 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 15:00:16 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet648.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:00:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.211.81] has joined #openttd 15:09:43 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-84-93.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:04 *** MarwolTuk [MarwolTuk@p549EF3BA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:12:28 <MarwolTuk> hello all 15:12:55 <yorick> hello 15:14:39 * MarwolTuk wounders about how hard it woud be to write a patch for openttd 15:14:49 <Jango> not very 15:14:57 <Alberth> If you know C++ 15:15:10 <Jango> and can follow instructions on the wiki 15:16:16 <MarwolTuk> c++ shodn't be a real problem... so i'll have a look to the wiki 15:16:35 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:17:04 <yorick> is there any widget type with an image, but without button? 15:18:18 <Vikthor> out of my head - does president picture have a special widget type? 15:18:26 <Hirundo> Do you want a button look, a button behaviour or neither of them? 15:19:38 <yorick> I don' t want the look or the the behaviour 15:19:42 <yorick> I just want an image 15:20:35 <yorick> Vikthor, the company manager face uses DrawSprite 15:20:41 <glx> yorick: images are panel where you draw an image by hand 15:20:52 <MarwolTuk> bevore i start codeing - is there already a posibility to show cachement-areas of already build (pasanger) stations? i think this feature would be cool if you try to set up a local transportation system inside a city... 15:21:26 <Rubidium> people have attempted making such a feature 15:21:27 <Alberth> yorick: draw the image yourself in OnPaint() method 15:21:28 <frosch123> I have a small patch around that does that. 15:21:32 <yorick> ok :) 15:21:57 <frosch123> I needed it to debug a silly ottdcoop savegame, as I was totally lost, where they had stationwalked to. 15:22:04 <frosch123> And I believe they were too :p 15:24:43 <frosch123> MarwolTuk: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/show_station_catchment.diff most likely it does not apply anymore 15:25:07 <frosch123> and of course it does not have a proper gui, as it was only for debugging :) 15:25:43 <MarwolTuk> ok, i'll look at it, and maybee i'll fix that bouth points ;-) 15:31:56 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:32:04 *** yorick is now known as Guest289 15:32:04 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 15:34:02 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-84-93.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #openttd 15:34:49 <gynter> hellöö 15:36:59 <Alberth> has anybody else experimented with 'make -j2' to speed up compilation? Results are quite nice, 1m20s build-time instead of 2m22 15:37:27 *** Guest289 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:06 <yorick> what does -j2 do? 15:38:23 * frosch123 is on single core 15:38:24 <Alberth> it runs 2 compilation jobs 15:38:29 <yorick> oh, nice :) 15:38:31 *** Cookiej [Cookiej@cable-82-162.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:42 *** Mark17 [~mark@vnc.tt.streamservice.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:17 <Alberth> or rather, n compilation jobs in parallel with -jn 15:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have n cores, the typical suggestion is to run 2n-1 jobs 15:39:53 <petern> i use -j8 15:40:05 <yorick> eddi, so frosch should use 0? 15:40:11 <yorick> hm, no 15:40:22 * yorick didn't think 15:40:25 <Rubidium> assuming you follow that suggestion... you've got a quad core CPU and a Celeron? 15:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> 2*1-1=0? good, i have to remember that 15:40:51 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: for a dual-core CPU, you'd then still have 1 compile job 15:40:53 <petern> 2*(1-1) ;) 15:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and beat up my math teacher from elementary school :p 15:41:32 <yorick> Alberth, yes, because 2*2-1 = 1 15:42:05 <Alberth> argh, I should trust my brain with these simple computations :P 15:42:21 <Alberth> +not 15:42:33 <yorick> I made the same mistake with 1 15:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> neither with these simple typing and sentence forming jobs ;) 15:42:57 <Alberth> ack 15:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should just do away completely with this rubbish brain of yours 15:44:57 <Alberth> why? I am having much fun with it 15:45:04 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EDE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:47:57 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14604 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp station_func.h): -Codechange: Simplify a function and rename it, and fix some comments. 15:53:23 <Ammler> will the new compile farm ever become OS? 15:54:00 <Ammler> or is it already? And i just didn't find the source? 15:55:27 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-96-107.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 15:56:47 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14605 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r9315): When callback 1E fails, use the standard random colour. 15:57:57 <Ammler> frosch123: as you working on special strings, are you aware of that? http://mz.openttdcoop.org/screens/smallfont.png 15:58:13 <Ammler> oh no, sorry :-) 15:58:25 <frosch123> I am working on special strings? 15:58:34 <Ammler> yeah, forget it. 15:59:21 <frosch123> and that is a ttdp screenshot 15:59:31 <Ammler> doesn't matter 15:59:41 <Ammler> the problem is on both. 16:00:18 <Ammler> that is why I didn't bugreport it. 16:03:26 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14606 /trunk/src/ (6 files): 16:03:26 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Unify usage of PALETTE_MODIFIER_TRANSPARENT and PALETTE_MODIFIER_COLOR in spritelayout drawing. 16:03:26 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2419]: The modifiers were not applied in all cases. 16:04:50 <yorick> frosch is on a commit spree :) 16:09:53 <frosch123> George: I need "ECS(George)\ECSHousew.grf" 16:11:24 <George> frosch123: http://george.zernebok.net/temp/GRF/ECS(George)/ ? 16:12:03 <frosch123> why does google not know that site? 16:12:34 <George> Ask google :) 16:13:10 <yorick> page not found? 16:14:18 <George> It's a hosting by Owen Rudge 16:14:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 16:14:41 <fjb> Never trust google... 16:15:03 <George> Works fine here 16:15:43 <yorick> I forgot the (George)/ 16:16:04 <George> so, does it work? 16:16:08 <frosch123> yes 16:16:34 <George> and what happens when you run "after" save? 16:18:12 <gynter> where did the spoon go? 16:19:13 <gynter> sorry, wrong window. 16:19:20 <gynter> hmm, there should be Refresh all button... 16:19:47 <gynter> why Find Server leaves some servers as IP only? 16:20:50 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]] 16:21:44 <gynter> bah, that 64x64 server is offline :( 16:22:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:25:37 <yorick> gyner, because it can't reach them 16:25:50 <yorick> gynter, refresh all = press find server again 16:26:41 <gynter> hmm, but if I press Find Server it still doesn't find those servers with shown as IP, but if I refresh each of them separately it finds 16:31:44 <gynter> how much resources do I need to run a dedicated server (0.6.3) with 64x64 map on *nix? 16:32:52 <yorick> not much 16:33:47 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738c8d2.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:47 <frosch123> George: when you use the "land area information" tool, you can see the "coordinates" of every tile. where does the bank has to be build? 16:36:42 <George> 372-360-3 16:39:52 <frosch123> let me guess, that is a "protected" building? 16:41:02 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:53 <George> I do not know, It is from NA city set 16:42:12 <frosch123> as it works with "magic bulldozer" enabled :) 16:42:49 <George> Sorry, what did I do wrong? 16:42:53 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:35 <frosch123> nothing, but I was confused as I clicked exactly that tile before. But I cleared the sight a bit before :) 16:44:38 <George> I use transparency mode (Ctrl-x) on 16:45:09 <frosch123> but then I cannot see which houses are multitile houses in most cases 16:47:01 <George> May it cause this bug? 16:47:50 <frosch123> well, currently it seems that clearing the tile is allowed, when the industry tests whether it can clear all tiles. but clearing is forbidden, when the industry is finally build 16:48:07 <frosch123> I guess current_player is different 16:50:27 <Wolf01> [17:46:18] <frosch123> but then I cannot see which houses are multitile houses in most cases <- I have a suggestion for that problem: make the building milky when you are trying to destroy one tile which belong to it, like making it transparent but white 16:51:56 <frosch123> oh, _current_company of course 16:52:00 * frosch123 feels like belugas 16:53:14 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm247.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:32 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-14-39.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Quit: I'll get you next episode, Inspector Gadget! NEXT EPISODE!] 16:58:29 <frosch123> ok, the problem is, when the first tile is cleared by the bank, the town rating drops so that clearing the second tile is not allowed anymore 17:19:09 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:21:44 <George> :) :) 17:21:55 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:57 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:56 <frosch123> George: FS#2421: the callback fails 17:35:36 <George> Why? 17:35:59 <frosch123> in that case I have to look in the grf 17:36:20 <George> You have it (ECSHousew.grf) 17:38:53 <frosch123> maybe there are more than two of those hotels, or the hotel is older than 32 years? 17:41:39 <George> its 32 in HEX, so 50 years. Started in 1950-th, and it's 1955-th in game. So they should be at most 5 years old 17:44:25 <frosch123> ah, alright, the house is 255 years old (clamped) and there are 671354882 houses of the same id 17:44:53 <George> SHOCK! But why? 17:45:20 <frosch123> well, obviously those numbers are wrong, esp. the second :) 17:45:40 <frosch123> I just wonder, whether it is just my debugging output that is that wrong :x 17:46:26 <George> Hope you can fix it B) 17:46:50 <frosch123> oh, wait, there is more stuff stored in that variable 17:47:58 <George> but I test it with 81, so the other 3 bytes should be cut 17:48:05 <frosch123> so two houses 17:48:14 <George> Correct :) 17:48:26 <George> But 255 years not 17:50:30 <frosch123> err, is the house completed? 17:50:54 <George> What do you mean? 17:51:05 <frosch123> is it in its final construction stage? 17:51:18 <frosch123> or is it just build 17:52:58 <frosch123> yes, it is 17:53:09 <George> At least land area information tool says thet they are not under construction. 17:53:16 <Qball> can I make openttd auto-signal a whole line 17:53:20 <Qball> (including corners and stuff 17:53:52 <George> frosch123: and? Shouldn't it be 0, not 255? 17:53:58 <frosch123> Qball: build one signal (usually a one way signal), press ctrl and drag the signal in the wanted direction 17:54:10 <Qball> thx 17:54:18 <Qball> I knew I hit it by accident a few times 18:02:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.213.138] has joined #openttd 18:04:19 *** vraa [~vraa@h46.71.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:48 *** Hequa [Hequa@b-178-192.dsl.ipy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:07:23 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn14-26.dsl.spy.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:07:52 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:08:05 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 18:09:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.211.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:51 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0EDE2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 18:14:04 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:15:15 *** yorick is now known as Guest303 18:15:15 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 18:21:06 *** Guest303 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:14 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:37:08 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 18:38:57 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:30 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:43:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14607 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt finnish.txt hungarian.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt): 18:43:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-22 18:44:20 18:43:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 28 changed by burgerd (28) 18:43:40 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: finnish - 65 fixed, 17 changed by UltimateSephiroth (82) 18:43:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: hungarian - 86 changed by oklmernok (86) 18:43:41 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 4 fixed by brygge_2 (4) 18:47:43 <frosch123> George: FS#2421: Your savegame is totally screwed. I cannot reproduce it in a new game, can you? Else I am going to blame that you replaced the newgrf with a newer on in game. 18:49:04 <frosch123> i.e. the house cannot resolve a valid housespec 18:51:11 <George> frosch123: What does it mean Screwed? Reproduce? It is hard to control house change, because it is totally random. The fact that I caught it is a luck. Replace the GRF? IMHO, the checksum is saved in the save, isn't it? So you could see the change. And what about age = 255? 18:51:48 <George> What does it mean "the house cannot resolve a valid housespec"? 18:52:24 <George> BTW, I'd would like to ask one more question. Do uypu plan to disallow houses to be moved during construction? I mean when I do landscape test for northern tile I want to be sure to get northern tile there when the house is built. 18:54:41 <frosch123> for your last question: that is part of grf version 8, but IIRC in fact it is already the case for ottd 18:56:11 <George> Are you sure for OTTD? 19:00:24 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:00:54 <frosch123> well, the code looks like it. so you can test it. but it would not conform to newgrf specs version 7 19:01:22 <George> I understand. Starting testing 19:28:57 *** gynter [~gynter@77-233-84-93.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:34 <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14608 /trunk/src/town_map.h: -Fix (r9315): Return the current year as construction year for unfinished houses. 19:49:31 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:41 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 19:55:30 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has quit [] 20:01:06 *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:19 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:21:17 <Sacro> shouldn't power stations state power generation in the industries list? 20:23:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:53 <petern> no 20:29:36 <frosch123> George: Ok, I found the problem, why the age is 255 20:29:43 <frosch123> No idea how to fix it though :( 20:29:46 *** vraa [~vraa@h46.71.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:30:20 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:31:05 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:10 <George> frosch123: could you explain it in general? 20:31:55 <frosch123> you know that TTDP sets the minimum availability year to 1920 if there are no houses before 1930? 20:32:24 <frosch123> that is to make sure, that there are houses available when the landscape is created 20:32:25 <George> Read it somewhere. And? 20:33:11 <frosch123> as ottd supports dates before 1920, it sets the minimum year of the earliest available houses to year 0 20:33:27 <frosch123> so your house is available from year 0 onwards 20:33:34 <frosch123> until 1960 or so 20:34:01 <George> And how should affect the house that is on the map? 20:34:02 <frosch123> however, the builddate is stored using 8 bits in the map array. so build dates after the year 255 cannot be represented 20:34:48 <frosch123> so effectivly all houses of that type (and a lot others) were built in the year 255 20:35:00 <frosch123> so in 1950 it is far older than 255 years :) 20:36:02 <George> You mean that map generation happens in year 0? 20:36:39 <frosch123> well, you can interpret it like that 20:36:51 <frosch123> but no 20:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the joy of extending ranges of certain variables :p 20:37:55 <frosch123> it analyses the availability years of all houses, so if there are 5 houses available from 1930 and 7 available from 1931, it will set the availability years of the earliest 5 houses to year 0 20:38:41 <frosch123> so basically if a house belongs to the earliest available houses, its age variable does not work 20:41:08 <George> Confused :( Does it mean that if I provide 5 houses for the pre 1930 period, other houses would work correctly? 20:41:58 <frosch123> when those do not use the age variable, then yes 20:42:50 <frosch123> you can also set the date of your hotel to 1931 :) 20:43:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.213.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.213.138] has joined #openttd 20:44:56 <George> But what would happen to the other hoses, which are introduced in 1930? Also, it would not allow map generator to build the hotel in 1930. That's not good. 20:45:33 <frosch123> when you start the game in 1930 then no, but when you start in 1931 then yes 20:48:09 <George> and if I start in 1920? 20:48:21 <frosch123> then no hotels 20:49:07 <frosch123> you can add some houses to start from 1850. then you could allow the hotel to start in 1851 20:50:52 *** questionmark [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:54:26 *** yorick is now known as Guest318 20:54:27 *** questionmark is now known as yorick 20:57:47 *** Guest318 [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:00 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-5445016b.lns3-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:06:46 *** StarLionIsaac [~chatzilla@user-5445016b.lns3-c11.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [] 21:18:34 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B830F3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:12 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83C6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:21:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:23:06 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:26:59 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 21:27:01 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 21:27:05 *** trainboy2004 [~trainboy2@cp734887-a.gelen1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 21:38:27 *** yorick [yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 21:44:34 *** DASPRiD is now known as DASPRiD|off 21:45:09 *** DASPRiD|off is now known as DASPRiD 21:47:20 <Rubidium> DaleStan: does it make sense when a NewGRF contains "unused" data in real sprites; unused meaning that a sprite in the NewGRF is e.g. 584 bytes long (576 without header) with compression 1 when the sprite itself is according the metadata 36 (xsize) by 12 (ysize), thus only 432 bytes (without header)? Happens in at least NARS 2.0b6w. 21:48:42 <Rubidium> or should we just ignore the 144 wasted bytes instead of triggering a "handle corrupt sprite" routine? 22:03:26 <appe> dudes 22:03:40 <appe> how many twists and turns can a train actually handle 22:03:51 <valhalla1w> infinite. it just slows down 22:03:54 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw 22:04:00 <appe> im getting trains here who gets "lost" just because they wait at over thirty places per line 22:04:04 <appe> ok 22:04:08 <appe> i guess im doin something awfully wrong. 22:04:16 <valhallasw> wait? 22:04:22 <appe> yes, lights. 22:04:28 <appe> signals* 22:04:34 <valhallasw> so why are they red? 22:05:06 <appe> other trains pass by. 22:05:28 <valhallasw> erm 22:05:32 <valhallasw> could you post a savegame? 22:06:05 <appe> not atm 22:06:18 <appe> ill hand it to you later. 22:06:28 *** vraa [~vraa@h46.71.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 22:06:37 * benjamingoodger has idea for his next book 22:06:55 <Rubidium> appe: with YAPF trains that cannot ever reach their destination without reversing will get "lost". With the old pathfinder trains get lost if they can't reach their destination within a given amount of time 22:07:07 <benjamingoodger> Adventures in Google Reader --- How To Set It To The Wrong Language, Such That You Cannot Change It Back Again 22:07:21 <appe> ah, ok. 22:08:53 <valhallasw> benjamingoodger: click settings (first link right of email address), first selector? 22:09:04 <benjamingoodger> yeah, I found that eventually 22:09:12 <benjamingoodger> just by clicking everything in turn... ¬.¬ 22:09:50 <valhallasw> -_- 22:11:53 *** Fantasya [~a@78.59.192.248] has joined #openttd 22:12:13 <Fantasya> youtube live after 2 hours and 46 mins!!!!! 22:12:15 <Fantasya> :)))))))) 22:12:36 <Fantasya> omg waiting waiting. want to sleep :// 22:21:15 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-191.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 22:23:42 *** vraa [~vraa@h46.71.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:28:46 <Wolf01> does eGRVTS supports both ECS and Pikka's sets? 22:29:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcf79.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:59 <valhallasw> appe: savegame ready yet? :P 22:33:38 <appe> no, but i can take a screenshot. .D 22:33:55 <DaleStan> Rubidium: I don't know. Have you asked patchman about that? 22:34:35 <appe> "Screenshot failed!" 22:34:35 <appe> woot. 22:35:27 <Rubidium> DaleStan: no, he's in #tycoon? 22:36:04 <DaleStan> Yep. Or lurking it, anyway. 22:36:55 <appe> http://fac.dndr.se/poo/Bilder/div/openttd1.jpg 22:36:56 <appe> :> 22:37:05 <appe> (it works now) 22:37:27 <appe> i had forgot to put and end signal to a single rail 22:37:31 <appe> and it fucked it all up 22:37:33 <benjamingoodger> good GOD 22:37:55 <Antdovu> that must be FAST ;) 22:38:08 <appe> :> 22:38:13 <Antdovu> the amount of tracks is the real bottleneck here 22:38:19 * Rubidium says something with barbeque... 22:38:23 <appe> well, yeah. 22:38:27 <appe> its just fun 22:38:27 <appe> :D 22:38:33 <appe> and its like that all over the map 22:38:43 <appe> i only have about ten industries left 22:38:45 <valhallasw> zomg 90-degree-turns :P 22:38:47 *** vraa [~vraa@h234.188.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 22:38:49 <appe> 1024x1024 22:39:34 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/Treham%20Transport,%201st%20Nov%202337.png <- that's much more busy ;) 22:39:58 <appe> holy cow. 22:40:12 <appe> well hey, you got some money. 22:40:14 <appe> :EEEE 22:40:57 <Rubidium> a 128x128 map with 1.5 times more transported cargo than OTTDcoop's famous Pile Transport (1024x1024) map 22:41:09 <appe> though, how can that be profitable? how do you get so heavy amounts of stuff to ship? 22:41:13 <appe> aha 22:41:14 <Vikthor> lol at the ships, I gather you are not proponent of introducing ship collision ? :p 22:41:16 <appe> haha 22:41:16 <appe> :D 22:41:38 <appe> OTTDcoop's famous Pile Transport (1024x1024) map? 22:41:39 <Rubidium> not really no ;) 22:42:18 <Antdovu> I am afraid of starting a new openttd game 22:42:37 <Antdovu> it takes forever to play it :P 22:43:05 <benjamingoodger> I have not yet managed to generate a map that works properly for me.. 22:44:06 <benjamingoodger> maybe when cargodest comes in it'll be a bit better 22:45:11 *** Jango [~daniel@78-86-166-80.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:27 <appe> haha 22:45:28 <Rubidium> appe: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive#gameid_04 22:47:59 <Fantasya> 2 hours and 12 minutes to YOUTUBE LIVE!!!! 22:48:02 <Fantasya> omg waiting waiting 22:48:11 <benjamingoodger> what on earth is youtube live? 22:48:24 <Fantasya> live broadcast 22:48:29 <Fantasya> concert 22:48:33 <benjamingoodger> ah 22:48:46 <Fantasya> will.I.am, akon, katy perry 22:48:48 <Fantasya> mythbusters 22:48:49 <Fantasya> etc 22:48:54 <Fantasya> all in LIVE! 22:49:07 <Antdovu> I heard that there was a contest to make an actually good video for youtube 22:49:08 <Fantasya> http://www.youtube.com/live 22:49:11 <benjamingoodger> I asked what it was, not for a promotional leaflet 22:49:22 <Fantasya> 3 comments per second 22:49:23 <benjamingoodger> thank you for the link 22:49:27 <Fantasya> ;) 22:49:39 <petern> sounds very exciting 22:49:42 <petern> i'm going to bed :D 22:49:46 <Fantasya> lol :D 22:49:47 <benjamingoodger> hehehe 22:50:00 <benjamingoodger> I'm going to design some stationery 22:50:03 <Fantasya> half world will be on youtube after 2 hours 22:50:08 <Antdovu> when I have a need to drop my IQ then I'll be sure to check the comments out 22:50:24 <Fantasya> i think youtube want to make record of guiness 22:50:25 <Fantasya> :D 22:50:55 <Fantasya> 77000 subscribers :O 22:51:38 <Antdovu> is it just me or are you way too excited? 22:52:13 <benjamingoodger> no, it's me too 22:52:14 <benjamingoodger> oh, wait 22:52:17 <benjamingoodger> you're me 22:52:19 <benjamingoodger> damn! 22:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's me! 22:52:56 <Fantasya> im very excited 22:52:58 <Fantasya> omg 22:53:02 <Fantasya> :)))))) 22:53:19 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5ad3834a.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:53:34 <Fantasya> ProfFrink set youtube in ready status 22:53:34 <Fantasya> ;) 22:53:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad84b52.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:54 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 22:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... that's a clear *plonk* for you 22:54:47 * Rubidium agrees with Eddi|zuHause 22:56:07 <Fantasya> omg 22:56:21 <Fantasya> 2-4 comments per seconds about youtube live 22:57:02 <Antdovu> We're Sorry 22:57:02 <Antdovu> Firefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts. 22:57:08 <Prof_Frink> Fantasya: wtfayboa? 22:57:38 <Wolf01> George! 22:58:16 <Fantasya> YouTube Live 22:58:22 <Fantasya> 2 hours and 2 minutes 22:58:24 <Fantasya> left 22:58:44 <Antdovu> crack is bad for you, m'kay? 22:59:16 <Fantasya> 840000 subscribers 22:59:18 <Fantasya> omg 22:59:34 <Fantasya> 15000 subscribers per 8 minutes 22:59:35 <Fantasya> :O 23:00:08 *** [com]buster [~eternal@cust-03-55bf402e.adsl.scarlet.nl] has quit [Quit: Operator, give me an exit] 23:03:25 <benjamingoodger> ... 23:03:39 <benjamingoodger> sodding inkscape with its sodding font handling! 23:03:57 <benjamingoodger> if I type "12" into the font size box, I want the text to be 12pt high, damn it 23:04:40 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 23:05:28 <Antdovu> no, you want it to be 12 furlongs high 23:06:26 <benjamingoodger> oh, is that the unit they presume? 23:06:30 <benjamingoodger> that makes sense.. 23:06:44 <benjamingoodger> and I'm still no good at graphic design, even with proper font sizes :( 23:07:17 <Antdovu> I'm pretty good at drawing grids 23:07:20 *** Zorn [zorn@f054000151.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:37 <benjamingoodger> unfortunately there's a plugin for grids 23:07:48 <Antdovu> but mine are unique 23:09:00 <benjamingoodger> why? 23:09:11 <Antdovu> I take space-time distortion into account 23:09:13 <benjamingoodger> do they incorporate curves? 23:09:55 <Antdovu> so yes, they do 23:10:30 *** vraa [~vraa@h234.188.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:10:37 <Antdovu> and sometimes some lines are missing because of quantum effects 23:11:06 <Antdovu> your plugin can't do that, can it? ;) 23:12:22 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 23:14:34 *** Antdovu [~Otinn@vpn2-191.vpn.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:37 <Sacro> !calc 2^7 23:24:40 <Sacro> @calc 2^7 23:24:40 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 23:24:46 <Sacro> @calc 2**7 23:24:46 <DorpsGek> Sacro: 128 23:24:49 <Sacro> hmm, though as much 23:25:37 <Qball> you need a calc for that? 23:25:51 <Eddi|zuHause> he's Sacro. 23:25:56 <Qball> 2^8 == 256 23:25:58 <Qball> one byte.. 23:25:59 <appe> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN0SVBCJqLs&feature=related 23:25:59 <Sacro> Qball: hush you :P 23:25:59 <appe> epic. 23:26:05 <appe> steve jobs did it again. 23:26:07 <Sacro> sigh, i hate big/little endian 23:26:09 <Sacro> it confuses me 23:26:12 <Qball> did what again 23:27:39 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:39 *** svippy [~svip@0x50a5b14e.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 23:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: you do realise that this video is 7 years old? 23:31:09 *** silent [~pwr@82.78.117.52] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 23:31:43 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 23:32:02 <appe> yes 23:32:27 <appe> "again" is for his way of speaking, that could have been.. well, yesterday. 23:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you mean by that 23:33:37 *** vraa [~vraa@h198.75.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 23:33:37 <benjamingoodger> no, me either 23:34:09 <Sacro> return (byte)((msb * 256) + lsb); 23:34:13 <Sacro> now why did i do that... 23:34:47 <Rubidium> because you wanted to determine the effectiveness of your compiler in pruning unneeded instructions? 23:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> because you did not put a wrapper function for big endian translation, which you actually documented 23:35:12 <Sacro> this file was generated by delphi so it is big endian 23:35:39 <Sacro> Rubidium: what is unneeded? 23:36:06 <Rubidium> the msb, the *, the 256 and the + 23:36:14 <Qball> lol 23:36:28 <Sacro> ? 23:36:30 <Sacro> oh ? 23:36:39 <fjb> :-) 23:37:01 <fjb> (byte) cuts off the shifted msb. 23:37:07 <Sacro> byte lsb = breader.ReadByte(); 23:37:07 <Sacro> byte msb = breader.ReadByte(); 23:37:07 <Sacro> return (byte)((msb * 256) + lsb); 23:37:12 <Sacro> surely that's correct? 23:37:48 <Rubidium> yes, it's valid C, C++, Java and probably quite a few others too 23:37:50 *** svippery [~svip@0x50a5b14e.boanxx18.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:38:09 <Sacro> I'm using C# 23:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't mean it does what you want it to do :p 23:38:10 <Rubidium> whether the behaviour is what you expect is something completely different 23:38:17 <Sacro> I can't add bytes without prefixng (byte_ 23:38:19 <fjb> so "(byte)((msb * 256) + lsb) == lsb" if I'm not mistaken. 23:38:22 <Sacro> *(byte) 23:38:54 <Sacro> so it does :o 23:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 256 is already larger than any value that a byte could hold 23:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why this part of the expression is useless 23:39:40 <Sacro> oh crap >< 23:39:47 <Sacro> I need to return a byte array 23:39:50 <Sacro> correct? 23:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you need to return the next bigger integer type 23:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> one that is 2 bytes wide 23:40:09 <Rubidium> it all depends on what you want to have 23:41:18 <Sacro> argh crap >< 23:42:11 <SpComb> if you're trying to deal with byte ordering of 16-bit integers, there's probably some ready-made way to handle that 23:42:16 *** vraa_ [~vraa@h198.75.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 23:42:18 <Eddi|zuHause> also, since you do bitshifting, you'd rather want to use << and | operators 23:42:29 <appe> :< 23:42:50 <Sacro> for (int i = 0; i < 4; i++) 23:42:50 <Sacro> toReturn += breader.ReadByte() << (8 * i); 23:42:50 <Sacro> return toReturn; 23:42:53 <Sacro> does that seem right? 23:42:55 <Sacro> it seems to workp 23:42:55 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if you use C# you are not allowed to use those! 23:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf kind of language disallows bitwise operations? 23:43:34 <benjamingoodger> a really shitty one, obviously 23:43:35 <Sacro> Rubidium: yes you can 23:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: again, i would deem |= more appropriate 23:44:16 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's not the language that disallows it, but "you" using the language that disallows it 23:44:19 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: eh? 23:45:01 <Rubidium> i.e. if you use C# you won't care about that stuff anyways 23:45:15 <Sacro> i have bitwise 23:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> well, | does the same as + if the values don't "overlap", but + still checks for carry-over 23:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> which you can prove (or assert) that it cannot occur 23:46:33 <Wolf01> 'night 23:46:35 <Sacro> hmm, I'm not sure Eddi|zuHause is getting this 23:46:37 <Sacro> night wolf 23:46:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host121-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you have two byte values: UV and WX 23:47:17 <SpComb> Sacro: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.bitconverter.toint32.aspx 23:47:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you want to combine them to a word value UVWX 23:47:38 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah 23:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do UV*256, so you end up with UV00 23:47:47 <Sacro> well, I think :\ 23:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> then you add WX 23:47:49 <Sacro> ahhh 23:47:52 <Sacro> yus 23:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> -> UVWX 23:47:56 <Sacro> I think :\ 23:48:02 <Sacro> I don't quite understand it myself 23:48:37 <SpComb> Sacro: so use the provided methods 23:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> in this case, you can also use UV00 | 00WX, since one of the two bits is always 0 23:48:56 <Sacro> SpComb: i've confused myself 23:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so UV00 | 00WX == UV00 + 00WX 23:49:19 <Rubidium> and you can confuse Sacro pretty easily 23:49:24 <Sacro> A B-unit holds several truth values or options. It is encoded as an I-unit; the value must be positive. The value is broken into individual bits, with 1 meaning the option is chosen and 0 meaning it is not. The bits are numbered from 0 as the least significant bit. Thus: 23:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> for all possible values of UV and WX 23:49:43 <Rubidium> just mass-join #tycoon and Sacro'll go nuts 23:49:48 <Sacro> argh no D: 23:49:53 *** vraa [~vraa@h198.75.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:01 <Sacro> I like having two seperate channels with different people 23:50:03 *** vraa_ [~vraa@h198.75.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: certainly you once were taught that U | 0 == U 23:51:13 <Sacro> yup 23:51:19 <Sacro> and U & 0 == 0 23:51:28 <SpComb> Sacro: you can use something like BitConverter.ToInt32 and IPAddress.NetworkToHostOrder 23:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> | and + only produce different output when two bits are 1 23:51:55 <SpComb> I don't do C# myself so I don't know the core libraries, but it seems there's some kind of binary-representation and byte ordering support 23:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 | 1 == 1, 1 + 1 == 10 [base 2] 23:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> but it can never happen that two bits are 1 when you are combining bytes in the way you do, as you shift them so far, that the byte values do not overlap 23:57:09 <Sacro> byte[] toReturn = new byte[2]; 23:57:09 <Sacro> toReturn[1] = breader.ReadByte(); 23:57:09 <Sacro> toReturn[0] = breader.ReadByte(); 23:57:09 <Sacro> return toReturn; 23:57:29 <Sacro> does that sound better? 23:58:03 <Rubidium> still depends on what you want to do 23:58:03 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-75-37.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:23 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 23:59:46 <Sacro> i'm well confused