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00:06:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14999 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Change [FS#2523]: move service at helipad to the servicing options 00:08:42 <petern> bah 00:32:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77AF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:09 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:36:21 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet709.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd435.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:33 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad103cc.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 01:02:00 <Zuu> nooooo, nightly forum backup, just as I am about to round off my day by eating an apple and read the dev section of tt-forums :( 01:05:18 <Aali> yeah, that thing always comes at the worst possible time 01:05:54 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:00 <Zuu> Though it is nice that backup is taken, as tt-forums is half my life :D 01:09:49 <snappy> When will a steel mill produce steel? I'm transporting iron ore to it. 01:12:07 <Zuu> snappy: Do you use PBI/ECS? 01:12:07 <Tefad> coal? 01:12:46 <Zuu> In those you need coal and iron ore to produce steel. 01:13:16 <snappy> i have no idea what a PBI or ECS means? but the steel mill says it "requires iron ore" 01:13:19 <snappy> that's all. 01:13:40 <Zuu> snappy: Have you loaded any GRF files? 01:13:49 <snappy> yep, from the original ttdlx 01:14:01 <petern> probably the usual suspect: transfer orders 01:14:22 <Zuu> I even had a friend asking me about it on MSN... 01:15:22 <Aali> snappy: not all tiles need coal, but the steel mill as a whole does 01:15:31 <Aali> build your station closer 01:16:13 <Zuu> If you click on your station, does it says that it accept iron ore? 01:17:18 <snappy> it says it only accepts iron ore 01:17:37 <snappy> so i need to cover the whole steel mill? 01:17:54 <snappy> probably explains why i couldn't do this last time i played ttdlx (in like '97) 01:17:58 <Zuu> snappy: As you have not loaded any NewGRFs (which you probably don't know what it is) your steel mill only need iron ore, no coal. 01:18:34 <Zuu> snappy: You need to cover the right tile(s) of the industries. 01:20:16 <Zuu> snappy: But if your station sasy it accepts iron ore then that part should be okay. 01:20:52 <Zuu> What order have you given your train at the station next to the steel mill? 01:21:14 <snappy> ive been carrying iron ore by trucks 01:21:28 <Zuu> ok, by trucks, but what order did you gave them? 01:21:46 <Zuu> did you used the transfer order? 01:21:48 <snappy> basically full load for iron ore, then goto steel mill 01:21:49 <snappy> and drop it off 01:21:52 <snappy> transfer order? 01:22:17 <Zuu> You shouldn't be using the transfer order, so that is okay. 01:24:10 <Zuu> snappy: do you use English OpenTTD or a translation? 01:24:18 <snappy> i use english 01:25:07 <Zuu> Ok, then we can be sure you don't use transfers. (a friend used the Swedish translation and there transfer has been translated, despite that there is no Swedish word for transfer) 01:25:42 <Zuu> snappy: Maybe you can post a savegame? 01:26:44 <snappy> yah sure. But I just don't understand the semantics or the gameplay in this respect. Take for example the factories. Once you feed them livestock, grain, and steel do they start producing goods? 01:26:46 <Zuu> Oh, and you used truck depots (not bus stops)? 01:26:53 <snappy> yep, truck depots 01:27:42 <Zuu> Yep in plain TTD (and plain OpenTTD) you only need one of the livestock, grain or steel. 01:27:58 <Zuu> Then goods will start being produced. 01:28:08 <snappy> ah interesting. 01:28:44 <Zuu> Amount of produced goods is proportional to the amount of supplied livestock, grain or steel. 01:29:33 <SmatZ> in TTO, you didn't need to supply anything ;) 01:30:59 <Zuu> snappy: I need to get myself some sleep, but post it to tt-forums OpenTTD problems and I'll take a look on it tomorrow if nobody has done that yet by then. 01:31:12 <Zuu> (the savegame) 01:31:27 <snappy> yep sure 01:31:28 <snappy> thanks. 01:31:32 <snappy> will do. 01:32:13 <Zuu> you're "snappy" also on the forums, right? 01:33:42 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:34:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:50:17 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:51:57 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-145-26-37.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:57:29 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-145-26-37.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:57:55 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:00:03 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-145-26-37.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:21 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-145-26-37.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 02:10:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-183-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:42 *** Roujin_ [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861361.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 02:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute '__cmp__' <- how the hell did i break that one? 02:29:23 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861361.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:24 *** Roujin_ is now known as Roujin 02:33:06 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:38:29 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d861361.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 02:49:46 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd [] 03:01:34 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:47 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:32:02 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:36:09 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:40:33 *** vraa_ [~vraa@h51.164.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:40:44 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 03:41:30 *** vraa [~vraa@h51.164.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 04:01:25 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated] 04:01:35 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 04:01:59 *** Zorn [zorn@e177236230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:09:24 *** Zorni [zorn@e177239226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:10:21 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 04:22:04 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:02:38 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:23 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:06:24 *** keiya [~kyevan@pool-71-98-21-246.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:23:09 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad103cc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:45 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad103cc.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:38:23 <keiya> ... DUDE! 05:38:32 <keiya> OpenTTD supports side-scroll! 05:39:00 <keiya> That means, in 'scrollwheel pans', I can do doubletouch scrolling easily! AWESOME! 05:39:22 <goodger> 0.o 05:39:28 <goodger> ...good for you? 05:42:11 <keiya> My little iBook has its advantages ^_^ 05:42:56 <goodger> I'm sure 05:44:06 <Forked> it's nice to look at? =p 05:44:41 <goodger> Forked: depends 05:45:04 <goodger> I liked the ones that looked like purple clams 05:46:49 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad103cc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:47:06 <keiya> Heh 05:47:14 <Forked> just ignore me.. I'm still thinking that macs are good for things I don't do .. photoshop-related stuff and video editing etc.. also komplett.no (one of, if not the biggest online computer stores here in Norway) had an ad saying something like "making the house looking better for xmas? buy a mac!" 05:47:24 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad00eab.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:47:35 <Forked> so when the stores that sell them can't come up with anything better than that they look good .. =p 05:48:23 <Rubidium> and they're vastly more expensive than your non-mac counterpart 05:49:27 <Forked> What I can imagine is pretty damn good about a mac.. is that there is no home-made setups of the hardware, so the OS can be finetuned to the small selection of hardware that is available. Therefor more stable than an operating system that has to work with every combination possible 05:50:06 <goodger> Forked: the number of drivers are reduced, yes 05:50:25 <goodger> flexibility goes out the window 05:50:36 <goodger> you want a laptop? you can have your choice of six. in two colours 05:50:37 <Rubidium> as long as they deliver an OS that breaks applications due to mysterious reasons I'm not buying it 05:51:56 <keiya> Rubidium: So you avoid Windows like the plague? 05:52:00 <Rubidium> it's one of the few OSes where an application that works fine in version X.Y fails in X.Y+1 05:52:11 <Rubidium> keiya: yes, and OSX 05:52:34 * keiya laughs 05:52:36 <goodger> Rubidium: apple and microsoft have different philosophies 05:52:46 <keiya> That's true of /all/ systems, Rubidium. 05:53:34 <Rubidium> keiya: just install a new videocard driver for your nvidia thingy and see how OpenTTD becomes massively slower 05:53:38 <goodger> microsoft know that their DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS have paid a lot of money to make software for windows and will not bother to update stuff or might even move to a less horrible platform if things break 05:53:56 <Rubidium> or how a universal binary can't be build for OSX 10.3 and OSX 10.5 05:54:02 <keiya> Eh? nvidia thingy? There's no nvidia thingy in this one :P 05:54:16 <keiya> Anywho 05:54:16 <Rubidium> whereas for Windows a binary made for Windows 2000 works fine for Windows Vista 05:54:28 <goodger> Rubidium: windows 1.0 binaries work on windows vista... 05:54:38 <keiya> Not reliably. 05:54:46 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad00eab.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:52 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad00eab.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 05:54:55 <goodger> apple, on the other hand, don't give two shits, because they know that a certain type of person will unceasingly update software in order to be part of the apple club 05:54:59 <keiya> And those are running under two or three layers of emulation, anyway :P 05:55:18 <Rubidium> keiya: and OSX is free of that... don't make me laugh 05:55:21 <keiya> Anywho, this laptop was /free/, so I can't really complain. 05:55:34 <goodger> Rubidium: actually they dropped classic in 10.4 05:55:39 <keiya> Rubidium: Eh, it's got less of it than in OS 9 05:55:43 <keiya> goodger: False. 05:55:53 <keiya> They dropped classic in 10.4 /Intel/. 05:56:00 <keiya> It's still here in 10.4 /PPC/. 05:56:04 <goodger> meh, whatever 05:56:07 <goodger> they dropped it 05:56:09 * Forked ponders about throwing a "what linuxdistro is the best?" out there :) 05:56:18 <Rubidium> Forked: LFS 05:56:24 <goodger> they aren't making PPC machines any more, therefore they dropped it at 10.4 05:56:29 <goodger> Forked: debian! :D 05:56:36 <keiya> They didn't want to run an m64k emulator on a ppc emulator, basically :P 05:56:43 <keiya> goodger: Oh, wow. 05:56:52 <keiya> So I'm /imagining/ chatting to you? 05:56:57 <Rubidium> keiya: in 10.4 your bash is always the PPC which on x86 means it runs on Rosetta, i.e. a PPC emulator 05:57:09 <Forked> Rubidium: interesting. I shall read up on that project. 05:57:23 <keiya> Rubidium: Yes... it would be /if I were on intel/. 05:57:31 <goodger> keiya: no, you're using quite old hardware 05:58:03 <goodger> if you were using any hardware from the era of 10.4 onward, you'd be on an intel 05:58:39 <goodger> apple dropped classic in 2006-or-whenever by moving to intel, and not porting classic to intel 05:58:54 <keiya> You claimed there was none. 05:59:04 <keiya> I am using one, thus you were incorrect. 05:59:20 <goodger> "there was none" --- what? 05:59:24 <keiya> You did /not/ say they no longer manufacture ppc hardware (which would be mostly correct) 05:59:59 <goodger> there was no classic in any new macintosh starting with the release of os x 10.4 06:00:44 <keiya> True. 06:00:53 <keiya> But OS 9 and OS X are /totally/ different, anyway. 06:01:05 <Tefad> verrrry different 06:01:07 <goodger> 0.o 06:01:14 <goodger> when was that a part of the conversation? 06:01:20 <keiya> goodger: Well 06:01:28 <goodger> you can't just whip that commonly-known statement out and say "I win!" 06:01:30 <Forked> well as long as you all know vista is better than any osx :-) 06:01:32 <keiya> You claimed "software doesn't work from one version to the next"... 06:01:37 <Forked> (flamebait..) 06:01:48 <keiya> Forked: Heh. OS X actually /runs/ :P 06:01:58 <Forked> keiya: so does vista 06:02:07 <keiya> Sometimes. 06:02:08 <goodger> keiya: actually rubidium claimed that 06:02:14 <keiya> Oh. 06:02:22 <Forked> keiya: what do you mean "sometimes"? 06:02:41 <keiya> Well, anyway, a more accurate comparison would be DOS programs on NT, without the layers and layers of compatability hacks. 06:03:02 <goodger> keiya: a more accurate comparison to what? 06:03:22 <keiya> (The NT kernel doesn't impliment /any/ of the same interfaces as pre-95 kernels. In 98, they introduced an abstract driver system which is still supported.) 06:03:41 <keiya> goodger: OS 9 to OS X 06:03:46 <goodger> you're thinking of implement 06:03:58 <Rubidium> keiya: OSX actually runs? It failed to install when I tried 06:04:06 <keiya> Rubidium: On what hardware? 06:04:19 <goodger> keiya: OS 9 to OS X is much more different than win9x to winNT 06:04:31 <Rubidium> well... not a piece of expensive mac hardware 06:04:47 <keiya> goodger: Yes, but not from the Win9x kernel to the NT kernel. 06:05:00 <Tefad> the APIs were the same.. "win32" 06:05:04 <keiya> NT didn't impliment the win32 api, originally... it's hacks on top of it. 06:05:12 <Tefad> a security model was added. 06:05:17 <keiya> Tefad: Actually, that's all implimented above the kernel, now. 06:05:18 <Tefad> win9x had none. only profiles 06:05:42 <goodger> wait 06:05:47 <Tefad> there are many many implementations of the win32 API 06:05:48 <keiya> The core NT and 9x kernels have /literally/ nothing in common :P 06:05:49 <goodger> what are we arguing about here? 06:05:55 <keiya> Nothing, anymore... 06:05:58 <Tefad> rambling 06:06:01 <goodger> well, no, that's bollocks 06:06:02 <keiya> I think we've gotten lost :P 06:06:17 <goodger> there are plenty of parts of the modern windows kernel that haven't been changed since the 80s 06:06:19 <Tefad> win32 even existed for windows 3.11 06:06:35 <keiya> goodger: Oh-so-very false. 06:06:47 <keiya> The layer applications see hasn't changed that much 06:07:00 <Tefad> goodger: i don't think microsoft has retained much of its 16bit asm optimizations... 06:07:32 <keiya> The NT kernel and DOS are totally separate. You might as well say Microsoft Office and StarOffice have code in common :P 06:07:41 <Sacro> they do 06:08:01 <Rubidium> keiya: you know we are actually considering removing support for OSX < 10.5 from OpenTTD? 06:08:15 <Tefad> ! blasphemy 06:08:24 <keiya> Yeah, and when you do I'll just keep running the last version that handles it. I'm used to that :P 06:08:36 <Tefad> support for beos but not os x? 06:08:41 <goodger> if the kernel was created from scratch for NT, why does it have such appalling security, process management, user management, memory management, filesystem, etc? 06:08:57 <keiya> goodger: Because they had to hack in support for the win32 api. 06:08:58 <Rubidium> OSX gets incompatible APIs, BeOS doesn't 06:09:02 <keiya> And such. 06:09:02 <Tefad> goodger: because microsoft disables security to be compatible with win9x 06:09:13 <Tefad> they're gradually turning it on every windows release since 2k 06:09:16 <keiya> Rubidium: Mostly because BeOS hasn't been updated since the dark ages... 06:09:33 <goodger> apple has illustrated very thoroughly that it is possible to start from scratch and still support legacy software 06:09:44 <Rubidium> even Windows and most Unices have stable APIs 06:09:49 <Tefad> microsoft has problems with that. 06:09:56 <Tefad> they reinvent the wheel too often 06:10:08 <keiya> goodger: Mostly by running emulation... 06:10:13 <goodger> Rubidium: OSS unixes tend to have quite unstable APIs because their software is open-source 06:10:17 <Tefad> recoding the win32 API i mean 06:10:20 <goodger> keiya: not processor-level emulation 06:10:29 <Rubidium> stable meaning that documented API functions are kept 06:10:30 <keiya> goodger: Actually yeah :P 06:10:48 <keiya> A lot of the OS 9 core still uses m64k features :P 06:11:04 <Tefad> Rubidium: i think it's a ploy to make mac users spend more money to upgrade their software from year to year 06:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i can't shut down a windows computer from a remote session... 06:11:12 <Tefad> does anything made for 10.3 work in 10.5?? 06:11:24 <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: you have to run shutdown from cmd 06:11:26 <keiya> Tefad: Yes. 06:11:34 <Rubidium> Tefad: yes, as long as it doesn't the APIs that got removed in 10.5 06:11:36 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:11:40 <Tefad> removed?! 06:11:45 <Tefad> d'oh 06:11:46 <Rubidium> Tefad: yes removed 06:11:46 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:11:55 <Tefad> i don't think microsoft removes many APIs 06:11:59 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:12:06 <Tefad> just deprecates them and ignores them. 06:12:08 <keiya> Tefad: Hence their horrible security, and such... 06:12:11 <goodger> I have plenty of dmgs that specifies individual point releases of os x 06:12:37 <Tefad> keiya: that's when you have to log in as administrator to run legacy apps 06:12:41 <Tefad> kind of silly. 06:12:45 <goodger> "requires OS X 10.4.2-10.4.6. incompatible with Panther" 06:12:54 <keiya> MS /can't/ secure WIndows, because they have to keep support for all the horrible flaws.. 06:12:59 <keiya> goodger: Uh 06:13:06 <Tefad> keiya: they're working on it 06:13:08 <goodger> I forget the name for 10.5, it was really obscure 06:13:15 <keiya> goodger: Leopard. 06:13:16 <Tefad> i still don't use windows or OS X at home 06:13:19 <goodger> that'll be it 06:13:27 <Tefad> the wife even likes using ubuntu 06:13:30 <keiya> But, uh, have you tried running software for 2000 on ME? :P 06:13:43 <Tefad> easy for her to screw around with additional apps with the package manager 06:13:49 <Rubidium> Tefad: e.g. http://developer.apple.com/DOCUMENTATION/Cocoa/Reference/Foundation/Classes/NSString_Class/DeprecationAppendix/AppendixADeprecatedAPI.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000154-getCString_maxLength_ 06:13:51 <goodger> keiya: that's completely different 06:14:03 <keiya> At least when Apple breaks backwards compatability, they actually break it instead of just refusing to run arbitrarily :P 06:14:16 <keiya> (Case in point: .net dev kit.) 06:14:43 <keiya> 99% of it runs just fine on 98... 06:15:04 <keiya> (The one exception being a rarely used tool... oh, and the installer, which does a test and refuses to run even though it'd work fine.) 06:15:06 <goodger> keiya: I reckon MS will replace the windows kernel with a bastard UNIX and port the shell, then run a choice of totally enclosed compatibility layers, just as apple did ten years ago, and microsoft could have done twenty years ago 06:15:27 <keiya> goodger: MS did that already... 06:15:37 <keiya> Only not Unix, just a new kernel. 06:15:43 <goodger> keiya: obviously they did not 06:15:52 <Rubidium> and the function that breaks for 10.5 is a function that converts a OSX type string into a C type string 06:16:05 <Tefad> goodger: huh? 06:16:14 <keiya> Rubidium: That's actually another flaw.. 06:16:17 <Tefad> the windows kernel is quite solid. i don't see why they'd run from it 06:16:27 <keiya> If you're not useing objc, you're a second-class citizen 06:16:28 <keiya> Tefad: ... 06:16:31 <keiya> They did. 06:16:31 <Tefad> the GUI code that /is/ in the kernel has been run through paces for years 06:16:32 <keiya> Ages ago. 06:16:49 <Tefad> the NT kernel is a hybrid kernel 06:16:50 <keiya> NT kernel vs DOS. :P 06:17:01 <Tefad> NT was a joint venture between IBM and MS 06:17:08 <keiya> They then hacked on bits of the old stuff, mind. 06:17:18 <keiya> Tefad: Not really... originally, yes. 06:17:30 <keiya> But, the current releases are so far removed from that... :J 06:17:33 <Tefad> microsoft got the rights to NT through a long court process 06:17:54 <Tefad> there were even some beta floppies of OS/2 that were microsoft branded ; ) 06:18:13 <Tefad> anyway, the kernel has roots from there 06:18:24 <keiya> Mmhmm 06:18:26 <goodger> Tefad: the kernel is theoretically just about adequate. everything else of the system is a shittily executed attempt to turn DOS into UNIX; if they replace the entire thing with a real UNIX and put in a totally enclosed compatibility system [think vmware images] 06:18:35 <goodger> then it will all work much more nicely 06:18:36 <keiya> And the 9x kernel is... DOS! 06:18:36 <Tefad> microsoft DOES have a unix kernel-thing sitting next to its win32-thing 06:18:54 <Tefad> called Interix 06:19:06 <Tefad> but that only comes with the top tier windows versions.. business 06:19:08 <keiya> What's next, are you going to claim that BSD and Linux are the same thing? >_> 06:19:26 <Tefad> interix is heavily influced by bsd 06:19:40 <goodger> keiya: GNU and BSD are both UNIXes, that's good enough for me 06:19:42 <Tefad> i used interix on XP at work for years 06:20:07 <Tefad> interix is a unix subsystem for NT 06:20:17 <Tefad> just like win32 is a subsystem 06:20:22 <goodger> (linux is pretty irrelevant in this context, it's one of quite a few decent UNIX kernels) 06:20:48 <keiya> goodger: They implement the same API, but they're not the same kernel. 06:20:58 <Tefad> one of my freebsd friends has some respect for the linux kernel, but hardly any for the GNU 'experience' 06:21:03 <Rubidium> keiya: so you say that OpenTTD for OSX is a bug? 06:21:09 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CC16.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:21:15 <keiya> Rubidium: ... 06:21:20 <keiya> What? 06:21:35 <keiya> You could /pretend/ to make sense. 06:21:42 <DaleStan> Except that, technically, Linux is not a UNIX. They haven't got the certification as such from The Open Group. 06:22:04 <Tefad> bahahahah http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb463198.aspx 06:22:06 <Rubidium> keiya: you're effectively saying that if it isn't written in objc it is not right 06:22:13 <goodger> keiya: I didn't say that linux and the BSD kernel are the same, I said they might as well be ignored because there's no major differences --- same with GNU and BSD. we're looking at a "windows and unix" world here, wherein unix is practically everything except windows 06:22:25 <keiya> Rubidium: No, I'm saying that's a flaw /with OS X/... 06:22:40 * keiya shrugs 06:22:43 <goodger> DaleStan: we're not talking about certification, we're talking about reality 06:22:50 <keiya> Anyway, I'm tired of this 06:23:18 <keiya> How did we spin off to here from "Ooh, I can set it up to let me scroll sideways with the touchpad!", anyway? 06:23:19 <goodger> but it's only half-ten! 06:23:40 <Rubidium> read the backlog 06:23:43 * keiya shrugs 06:23:48 <keiya> And, sighs. 06:23:54 <goodger> keiya: I said I preferred the old ones, then someone said macintoshes were overpriced, then you said the operating system is the only one that works properly 06:24:01 <keiya> I wanted to give Dare a hug before she left :( 06:24:07 <keiya> goodger: No I didn't... 06:24:24 <keiya> What I meant to say, which you all misinterpreted, was that others suck just as much. 06:24:58 <goodger> perhaps we "misinterpreted" you because you didn't say that 06:25:37 * keiya shrugs 06:25:40 <keiya> anyway, whatever. 06:26:00 <goodger> (I say half-ten with confidence because it's obvious you're californian) 06:26:32 <goodger> do you have a burlap bag and a hybrid car? 06:26:41 <keiya> No, and no. 06:26:50 <goodger> hmm 06:26:54 <goodger> intriguing 06:27:32 <keiya> And, no, I'm not a Californian. 06:27:35 * Rubidium thinks most people in here should first get some real knowledge about developing applications for the different platforms before they say what is more/less compatible (and thus stable w.r.t. application development support) 06:27:58 <Tefad> heh 06:28:09 <Tefad> Rubidium: just use java? 06:28:09 <goodger> *nod* 06:28:13 <goodger> ach! 06:28:18 <keiya> Rubidium: Eh, you have to code for the lowest common denominator no matter /what/ platform you're using. That doesn't change. 06:28:35 <keiya> It's just, how big that set is changes :P 06:28:35 <Tefad> java is GPL now 06:28:44 <keiya> Tefad: And still slow as hell! 06:28:59 <keiya> (Well, sometimes... it depends on the exact setup.) 06:29:00 <Tefad> so no matter wtf happens, someone can get your shit working if you pay them enough (eg 25years down the road) 06:29:20 <Tefad> java /can/ be slow sure. 06:29:41 <Tefad> that's why you can create platform specific accelerations if you need them 06:29:43 <keiya> Any time you do graphics, here :p 06:30:00 <Rubidium> Java's GUI init is especially slow, but technically it can be faster than normally compiled C code 06:30:18 <Tefad> another key word is 'normally' compiled C code 06:30:23 <keiya> Rubidium: Except that Apple's version sucks horribly :P 06:30:36 <goodger> hehehheheh 06:30:38 <Tefad> properly optimized C code gives Java's JIT a run for its money : ) 06:30:42 <Rubidium> without heavy profiling etc. and it requires Java to support JIT on your platform 06:30:44 <Tefad> but it's close competition 06:30:48 <goodger> <dooglus> asg: the biggest package is linux-image-2.6.16-1-686. I don't do any image processing, so I think it's probably safe to remove that one 06:32:04 <keiya> I still want to build an x86 from train logic gates, and run openttd on openttd. 06:32:05 <Tefad> poo. a GCC update. i hate these. 06:32:14 <Tefad> keiya: ew. 06:32:21 <keiya> (I think you'd need a freaking-huge-map patch, though.) 06:32:27 <keiya> Well, or a PPC :P 06:32:37 <Tefad> how about a 4004 06:32:51 <keiya> I think maybe sparc, too... has anyone gotten OpenTTD working on an m64k? :P 06:33:40 <Rubidium> I see no reason why it wouldn't work 06:34:10 <Rubidium> assuming it's a 32+ bits processor 06:34:38 <goodger> hm 06:34:47 <goodger> surely one could port OTTD to 16-bit fairly easily 06:36:23 <Rubidium> is it really m64k or did you mean m68k? 06:37:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.180.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:28 <Tefad> hehe 07:05:11 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 07:10:41 *** Mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has joined #openttd 07:12:19 <Mortal> oooh, 14999 revisions 07:23:22 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 07:24:06 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:39 *** Tim [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:25:50 <Tim> Good Morning everyone 07:38:07 *** Tim is now known as Timitry 07:39:50 *** Timitry is now known as Tim 07:41:08 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:41:56 *** Tim is now known as Timitry 07:43:11 *** Timitry is now known as Tim-itry 07:55:08 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:06:31 * dihedral is bored..... 08:09:18 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 08:11:00 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:11:05 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:16:34 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 08:17:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: then go fix something 08:21:44 *** mortal` [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has joined #openttd 08:23:56 *** mortal`` [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has joined #openttd 08:24:01 *** Mortal is now known as Guest69 08:24:01 *** mortal`` is now known as mortal 08:26:57 *** Guest69 [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:54 *** mortal` [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:32:07 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 08:34:45 *** Terkhen [~kvirc@aramis.ugr.es] has joined #openttd 08:36:20 *** Zorni [zorn@e177236230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 08:40:23 *** mortal [~mortal@217.60.138.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:40:54 *** Sacro_ [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 08:41:03 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:17 *** prakti_ [~myself@port-213-148-152-8.static.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:41:28 *** canidae_ [canidae@exent.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:38 *** wolfryu [~Wolfenste@dhcp-077-251-185-139.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 08:41:39 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: Sacro, @Rubidium, XeryusTC, const86, wolfy, prakti, @orudge, Vikthor, goodger, mucht_work, (+8 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 08:41:46 *** Netsplit over, joins: mucht_work 08:41:55 *** Netsplit over, joins: RvGaTe 08:44:01 *** canidae_ is now known as canidae 08:47:09 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:51:11 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has joined #openttd 08:51:33 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:02 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:52:25 *** ttdopen [~ttdopen@pierrew.de] has joined #openttd 08:52:30 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:52:58 *** planetmaker is now known as Guest82 08:53:02 *** tneo [~tneo@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:53:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 08:53:20 *** goodger [~ben@host86-156-58-171.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:55:02 *** Osai [~Osai@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:42 *** dih [~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:58 *** dih is now known as Guest83 08:56:44 * Tim-itry is busy installing all that stuff needed to compile OpenTTD on his laptop... 08:57:06 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 08:58:16 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:58:33 <Tim-itry> If i want to get the latest source of OpenTTD, and write my own patches, and update them to trunk from time to time, is TortoiseHG a good choice and enough? (WinXP) 08:59:57 *** mikl [~mikl@80.199.116.190.static.peytz.dk] has joined #openttd 09:03:01 *** WhiteRhino [White@modem169.tmlp.net] has quit [] 09:04:31 *** Guest82 is now known as planetmaker 09:08:52 <petern> tortoise hg or svn 09:11:52 <Tim-itry> Okay, just trying to set it up (TortoiseHG) 09:12:08 <Tim-itry> Oh, Rubidium, which present will we get with Revision 15000? :) 09:13:03 <petern> you'll get r15000! 09:13:07 <petern> what more could you want? 09:14:34 <Tim-itry> Hm, are you asking for a wishlist? :D 09:15:27 <Tim-itry> Uh, seems like cloning the trunk to my laptop actually works Oo 09:21:16 <Tim-itry> So, after having a clone of the trunk on my laptop, what next? Do i have to modify the files i want to change over TortoiseHG, or can i just modify them with the editor of my choice and TortoiseHG keeps track of the changes? 09:26:11 <petern> heh 09:26:19 <petern> yeah modify them as normal 09:26:22 <planetmaker> good morning! 09:31:17 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:36:18 <Tim-itry> Hm, modified one file and succesfully created a new local revision... However, i can't add files so it will visually show me in the explorer which files have been changed... 09:43:16 *** Guest83 is now known as dihedral 09:43:48 *** dihedral is now known as Guest89 09:44:22 <petern> hmm, msn won't connect :/ 09:44:36 *** Guest89 is now known as dihedral 09:45:01 <dihedral> hello 09:46:40 <petern> gah 09:46:46 <petern> and fake explorer views piss me off 09:46:50 <petern> like the nokia suite 09:46:57 <dihedral> hehe 09:47:01 <petern> you get a nice file listing in what looks like an explorer view 09:47:19 <petern> but you can't universally drag & drop them 09:47:37 <petern> needed to copy them into a temp directory before dragging onto winscp 09:50:16 <petern> lol 09:50:17 <petern> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/photos/200901/10012009026.jpg 09:50:42 <petern> something tells me the camera took a while to process it... 09:54:07 *** ConditionalZenith [~blah@60-242-48-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:02:10 <Rubidium> so it isn't bending of time that you've photographed? 10:05:38 *** freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe2cdd00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:05:41 <freiksenet> hello everyone 10:05:43 <freiksenet> !password 10:05:48 <freiksenet> !playercount 10:06:13 <freiksenet> oops, wrong channel 10:06:15 *** freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe2cdd00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 10:06:44 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 10:11:22 <petern> well you never know 10:35:03 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 10:39:18 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:39:18 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:20 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 10:40:06 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 10:48:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15000 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai.hpp saveload/ai_sl.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r14984): forgot to rename @file too 10:51:58 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:10 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 10:59:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-84f0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:03:12 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 11:03:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:07:45 <Mortal> 15000 commits, yaaaay 11:08:31 <Rubidium> 15975! 11:11:24 <TrueBrain> haha @ Rubidium :) 11:15:16 <petern> :) 11:15:31 <petern> we were at 2xxx when i started 11:15:49 <petern> my software mixer patch is coming along. 11:16:07 <petern> only problem is it requires modifying all the sound drivers, so testing is... fun 11:18:40 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet566.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 11:20:02 <Rubidium> petern: only requires two sound drivers to test (sdl and win), right? 11:20:36 <Rubidium> who cares about cocoa? 11:20:53 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:06 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:21:10 <petern> hhee 11:21:13 <petern> well win works 11:21:36 *** Terkhen [~kvirc@aramis.ugr.es] has quit [Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net] 11:22:28 <petern> once that's done then there is no fixed reliance on the software mixer 11:22:39 <petern> so an sdlmixer driver can be done 11:22:53 <petern> although that's only a software mixer anyway, heh 11:23:17 <petern> but sdlmixer would provide easy midi support for linux, with no sound device conflicts 11:24:02 <petern> and i think dominic wanted it for whatever port he was doing 11:28:51 *** lordnokon [~hanneslou@196-209-18-72-nngy-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [] 11:34:45 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D245.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:05:08 *** Tim-itry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:16:29 *** Tim-itry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:40 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-116-57-248.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:34 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B816E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:18:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:18:44 <Tim-itry> Hm, if i try to get the source code by svn checkout, it tells me "access denied" 12:18:58 <Rubidium> then don't login 12:19:06 <TrueBrain> don't try to commit 12:22:39 <Tim-itry> Well, i'm not trying, i just want to get the code with TortoiseSVN and try "SVN Checkout" or "Import", both gives me access denied - error 12:22:39 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:55 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:23:04 <TrueBrain> Import is wrong for sure 12:23:05 <Rubidium> Tim-itry: what url are you trying to download from? 12:23:12 <TrueBrain> checkout should work, if you use svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk 12:24:13 <Tim-itry> That's the one i use... 12:24:23 <Tim-itry> hm :-/ 12:24:43 <Rubidium> and then you said something like use username X? 12:25:21 <Rubidium> or tortoise is thinking it should login instead of anonymously get the data 12:27:07 <keiya> I hate you all for not removing antennas. 12:27:28 <petern> what? 12:27:38 <petern> antenna in the way? 12:28:58 <Rubidium> ignor(anc)e is bliss 12:29:11 <Gekz> pokemon 12:30:06 <keiya> petern: Yep >_> 12:30:20 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:31:57 <petern> hmm, r2963 12:32:49 <TrueBrain> petern: r1 :) 12:33:11 <petern> yeah well 12:33:19 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:09 <TrueBrain> :p :p :p 12:35:16 <petern> glx's first patch is before mine, heh 12:35:41 <petern> first commit much later though 12:36:06 <Rubidium> that revision sounds like around my first OTTD releated patch 12:37:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fed6b.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 12:37:43 <petern> hmm, 10,000 commits in trunk 12:37:52 <petern> 4788 for you 12:38:02 <petern> oh, first commit 12:38:22 <petern> 3511 is first commit with your name on it 12:38:25 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 12:41:01 <petern> 1924 rubidium 12:41:01 <petern> 1344 tron 12:41:01 <petern> 1236 darkvater 12:41:01 <petern> 1139 peter1138 12:41:02 <petern> heh 12:41:27 <petern> hmm 12:41:58 <SmatZ> :-) 12:42:21 <petern> 449 for you 12:42:27 <TrueBrain> petern: what are that? 12:42:29 <TrueBrain> commits? 12:42:31 <TrueBrain> or revisions? 12:42:39 <petern> commits to trunk per person 12:42:53 <petern> 46 ludde, heh 12:42:58 <petern> 11 richk 12:43:01 <petern> ^ 11 too many :p 12:43:08 <TrueBrain> petern: I count 717 for me ;) 12:43:21 <petern> 718 12:43:30 <petern> including r1 12:43:37 <TrueBrain> 53 for ludde .. 12:43:39 <TrueBrain> you count weird :p 12:43:44 <petern> hm 12:44:28 <petern> grep ludde log.txt -c gives 53 12:44:31 <TrueBrain> 52 .. lol :) (ludde had some patches which were committed not under his name! :p) 12:44:34 <petern> but that's not 53 commits 12:45:05 <petern> i filtered that out 12:45:05 <TrueBrain> ;) 12:45:22 <frosch123> oh, we are already at 15000... 12:45:23 <TrueBrain> r2532 | hackykid | 2005-07-08 21:02:26 +0200 (Fri, 08 Jul 2005) | 2 lines 12:45:23 <TrueBrain> - Fix: Don't waste space using an int where a byte would suffice. (ludde) 12:45:29 <TrueBrain> I think that should be counted to ludde :p 12:45:38 * frosch123 was mentally still at r14953 :/ 12:46:11 <petern> TrueBrain, too much hassle to do that for every possible commit 12:46:18 <petern> loads have attribution 12:46:31 <TrueBrain> petern: fair enough :) 12:47:08 * petern svn up's frosch123 12:47:25 <TrueBrain> petern: but I don't find those numbers fair! I did a lot of commits in tgp branch, and that was commited as a single trunk commit :( 12:47:33 <TrueBrain> (hehehehehe :)) 12:47:37 <TrueBrain> sorry, I will shut up now :) 12:47:42 <Tim-itry> hm, maybe the firewall here at my workplace is blocking the access to the svn repository... Since it does also not work via MSys 12:48:23 <TrueBrain> Tim-itry: 'access denied' means there is some kind of connection 12:48:28 <TrueBrain> so what are you trying EXACTLY in msys 12:49:39 <petern> 2498 rubidium 12:49:39 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:39 <petern> 1608 darkvater 12:49:39 <petern> 1539 truelight 12:49:39 <petern> 1476 tron 12:49:39 <petern> 1275 peter1138 12:49:44 <petern> 420 truebrain 12:49:48 <petern> for everything :p 12:50:02 <TrueBrain> you should add truelight and truebrain together :p (hehehehehe :)) 12:50:18 <petern> 140 (no 12:50:20 <petern> hmm :/ 12:50:28 <petern> i guess that's your secret hidden commits 12:51:30 <TrueBrain> haha 12:51:35 <TrueBrain> well, not really anymore 12:51:39 <TrueBrain> mapgen is no longer part of SVN 12:51:44 <TrueBrain> it is gone completely 12:51:50 <Tim-itry> MSys: svn checkout svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk 12:51:58 <TrueBrain> a few more revisions went byebye 12:52:24 <TrueBrain> Tim-itry: should work, works where :) 12:53:04 <SHRIKEE> yay 12:53:18 <Tim-itry> Message (translated): svn: Can not connect to Host svn.openttd.org: Could not connect because the hostcomputer denied the connection 12:53:36 <TrueBrain> now THAT is your firewall 12:53:42 <TrueBrain> but no message about 'access denied' ... 12:53:47 <TrueBrain> (which suggests a password login) 12:53:52 <TrueBrain> bad Tim-itry, giving us the wrong impression 12:54:03 <Tim-itry> denied the connection... ;) 12:54:11 <TrueBrain> Tim-itry: try http://svn.openttd.org/trunk 12:54:51 <Tim-itry> Cool, that works :) 12:55:42 <TrueBrain> it is much slower 12:55:47 <TrueBrain> but .. oh well .. 12:55:55 <TrueBrain> it does bypass your firewall ;) 12:56:16 <TrueBrain> if you like, also available: https://svn.openttd.org (or https://secure.openttd.org/svn) 12:56:23 <TrueBrain> (first redirects to the second) 12:56:41 <Tim-itry> Hehe, fast enough for me, needed only like 10 seconds to download 13:07:02 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks1.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:11:18 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 13:11:53 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:12:00 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:14:07 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:16 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:17:14 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-39.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 13:18:46 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:35 *** ConditionalZenith [~blah@60-242-48-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:37 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:51 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:36:43 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:36:43 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:43 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 13:40:15 *** vraa [~vraa@h51.164.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:45:45 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:45:45 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:48 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 13:49:53 *** Vikthor [~novotv6@pc404-39.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15001 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_core.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: make NoAI network safe again 13:54:57 <petern> heh 13:55:16 <petern> nice target: 15151 13:55:37 <petern> then 16384 i guess 13:55:50 <TrueBrain> petern: go for it :p 13:57:09 <Rubidium> or 15951 13:57:39 <glx> any 15X51 will do too 13:57:39 <frosch123> or 15742 13:57:41 <TrueBrain> or 15002 13:57:42 <TrueBrain> sigh .. 13:58:15 <petern> hehe 13:59:07 <petern> hmm, railtypes is 76KB ! 13:59:44 *** worldemar [~world@62.106.106.162] has joined #openttd 13:59:48 *** Ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 14:04:35 *** keiya [~kyevan@pool-71-98-21-246.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: keiya] 14:05:28 <Mortal> 15551 is prime 14:06:27 <TrueBrain> proof it ;) 14:06:50 <frosch123> ask the prime minister, he should know 14:06:51 <Mortal> it's divisible by 1 and 15551 and no other integer 14:06:56 <TrueBrain> hehe 14:07:26 <Rubidium> but dividing by two gives me 7775 14:07:33 <Mortal> hardly 14:07:50 <Mortal> Rubidium, retry with infinite precision 14:08:04 <Sacro> Can any C/C++ guys take a look at http://pastebin.freeside.co.uk/4334 and tell me how many answers are correct? 14:08:07 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:08:15 <Rubidium> int main(int argc, char *argv) { printf("%i\n", 15551 / 2); } <- Q.E.D. 14:08:17 <frosch123> there is nothing as precise as integer arithmetics 14:08:33 <Mortal> yes, fractional arithmetics 14:08:52 <SpComb> Rubidium: and multiplying 7775 by 2 gives you what? 14:09:55 <Aali> Sacro: what did you answer? 14:10:05 <Rubidium> Sacro: I'd say 2 14:10:06 <TrueBrain> MORE MONEY! 14:10:23 <Sacro> Rubidium: b? 14:10:25 <Mortal> hmm I'd say 3 14:10:40 <frosch123> 1) looks weird, so I say D) 14:10:57 <Mortal> sacro, 2 of the answers are correct 14:11:03 <TrueBrain> Sacro: clearly D) 14:11:06 <Rubidium> Sacro: D is right, thus C isn't and A isn't either, but as A or B or C is right, B must be right too 14:11:07 <Mortal> now, go and finish your homework 14:12:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15002 /branches/noai/ (28 files in 5 dirs): 14:12:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: move 'squirrel' to 'script/' 14:12:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Codechange: renamed 'AISquirrel' to 'AIScanner', as that is what it is doing 14:12:33 <Rubidium> but you not being able to figure out that D is right should fail you the test (you can't use a compiler after all) 14:12:57 <Rubidium> s/'t// 14:13:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15003 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r15002: of course I forgot the MSVC project files 14:13:53 <frosch123> hehe, I knew you would run out of fruits 14:14:21 <blathijs> I'd go for C 14:14:33 <Mortal> r15004 [NoAI] -Codechange: renamed 'AIScanner' to 'AISquirrel', as that is way the cutest name~<3 14:14:41 <TrueBrain> blathijs: you think the first thing compiles? 14:14:44 <frosch123> there shouild be "E) implementation specific" 14:15:09 <Mortal> yeah... after all, what is a Vector *really* 14:15:14 <TrueBrain> Mortal: I am glad you don't have commit rights ;) 14:15:39 <TrueBrain> frosch123: not in a fruity mood ;) 14:15:44 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejp122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:15:54 <TrueBrain> waiting on this lovely girl to reply to my question .. bleh :p 14:16:16 <frosch123> "wanna marry me?" ? 14:16:27 <Gekz> yes 14:16:39 <TrueBrain> :) :) 14:16:44 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Oh wait, there is a "result" in between there 14:17:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15004 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 14:17:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: renamed 'SetSetting' to 'AddSetting' in info.nut, as this makes much more sense 14:17:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: WARNING: all info.nut using SetSetting will now fail to compile. Change ASAP! 14:17:37 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yeah ... silly, not? 14:17:56 <blathijs> TrueBrain: That does ensure this question has a non-ambiguous answer 14:18:26 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Otherwise, it would be dependent on compiler implementation and Vector implementation 14:18:48 <blathijs> TrueBrain: (ie, if Vector has a copy constructor with observable behaviour) 14:18:53 <TrueBrain> blathijs: then I would have agree'd with you :) 14:18:59 <TrueBrain> and the question would have been really stupid in that case 14:19:05 <Zuu> but still, both B and D can be said to be true. And it says "Which one is true" 14:20:02 <Mortal> nah zuu, you can't really compare the efficiency of one program to the efficiency of uncompiled code 14:20:03 <TrueBrain> Zuu: B requires both to compile, in any sanes persons mind ;) 14:20:09 <TrueBrain> so saying B can be true, is just nitpicking 14:20:30 <Mortal> then B could be true and code section 1 could be line noise 14:22:24 <Mortal> scratch that, we're not comparing efficiency of compiled programs... ugh 14:22:55 <Mortal> I can't wait until I learn this shizzle properly at uni 14:23:11 <SpComb> çÃÂÃë_ÂÂi6°šl`¶^Â0ÃÂò¬Ã·qG 14:23:17 <petern> really 14:23:18 <Mortal> pardon? 14:23:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15005 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 14:23:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: remove Event filters, as nobody was using them 14:23:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: removed AIEvent::Test(), as it was silly 14:23:40 <blathijs> I would say that code section 2 is most efficient... to fill up a file that has to be 100KiB in size :-) 14:23:53 <blathijs> SpComb: You thought to contribute some line noise? :-) 14:24:41 <SpComb> X¡2H|/'á 14:24:41 <SpComb> ÃÃÂÃóÂÃñQÃ|Ê`niU96 14:24:47 <Mortal> spcomb is lowering the entropy a bit 14:24:50 <Steve-N> i'm running into this issue (in openttd, not some exam;) and i was wondering if this would be considered a bug or a feature: 14:25:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 14:25:30 <Steve-N> when a vehicle is at a station, without full-load order, it refuses to leave as long as new cargo is arriving at the station and this vehicle is the only one pickup up this specific cargo at this station. this can take a really long time, until the vehicle is completely filled up.. 14:26:02 <dihedral> no - it refuses to leave as long as cargo is arriving at the station in the time the train is still loading 14:26:09 <dihedral> and still has space for more 14:26:17 <Steve-N> yes that's what i mean 14:26:26 <frosch123> it has always been like that 14:26:34 <dihedral> yep 14:26:39 <Steve-N> that shouldn't mean it's good ;) 14:26:48 <Rubidium> we have very lenient conductors; they don't close the door when someone is entering 14:27:06 <Steve-N> when i go on the subway, it just leaves if some passengers were getting on while i am walking into the station 14:27:14 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:22 <Zuu> and closing doors 30 seconds before departure dosen't exist in OpenTTD. 14:27:28 <frosch123> but not when they are blocking the doors of the train 14:27:33 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:27:36 <dihedral> :-P 14:28:21 <frosch123> you should try that in rl, get 50 friends and keep on entering the wagon through one door and leave through the other... 14:28:32 <Zuu> There are these trains where you can open the doors from the outside even if the train has started to roll out from the station. 14:28:43 <Steve-N> then the doors will just open briefly and slam close again, or the subway driver will come out of his cabin 14:28:58 <Steve-N> (believe me, i tried, a long time ago;) 14:29:13 <dihedral> well - they are trains, not subways 14:29:17 <Mortal> haha, http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Longjmp--FOR-SPEED!!!.aspx 14:30:19 <Steve-N> this goes for any vehicle, bus, train, monorail (+metro track) 14:32:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15006 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: throw a real instance of a class, instead of '0' (which can also be a throw from within a thread for what ever reason) 14:32:02 <SpComb> goto and longjmp are great for error handling 14:32:09 <SpComb> dismissing them as evil is silly 14:32:23 <TrueBrain> SpComb: also very thread-safe and stuff :p 14:32:46 <SpComb> I'd hate to have to write code somewhere where they decide that "goto is evil and shall not be used, ever, without exception" 14:33:47 <blathijs> SpComb: They are pretty complex, and usually there better tools for the job (goto -> loops, longjmp -> exceptions) 14:33:48 <TrueBrain> 'goto' _is_ evil 14:33:59 <TrueBrain> longjmp for error handling in a C application, acceptable 14:34:04 <TrueBrain> but 'goto' ... brr 14:34:21 <SpComb> I mean `if ((ptr = calloc(1, sizeof(*ptr))) == NULL) goto error;` 14:34:23 *** vraa [~vraa@h25.81.141.67.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:46 <TrueBrain> SpComb: in the C++ world we do instead of 'goto error': 'throw OutOfMemory' 14:34:49 <TrueBrain> much more useful 14:34:55 <SpComb> I'm not talking about C++ 14:35:02 <TrueBrain> (as can you have one layer somewhere to handle every memory allocation failure) 14:35:05 <SpComb> in C++, you don't even have the if 14:35:21 <TrueBrain> one good reason to start using C++ ;) 14:35:29 <Rubidium> don't forget to mention that break and continue are gotos (without label) 14:35:33 *** Tim-itry [83dc24f1@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:35:35 <worldemar> SpComb: how do you replace if in C++ 14:35:36 <SpComb> imo, in C, goto is the only sane way of handling errors in functions 14:35:52 <SpComb> and that's not a bad thing at all, it works very well 14:35:53 <ccfreak2k> If goto is evil, why is it in the C spec? 14:36:06 <frosch123> because it is C ? 14:36:14 <TrueBrain> so because it is in some spec ... it is not evil? 14:36:17 <TrueBrain> cool!!! :) 14:36:21 <SpComb> of course, goto can be abused for stupid crap as related to weird loop structures, but so can anything else 14:36:22 <worldemar> C is a spartan language (c) linux kernel coding style 14:37:14 <ccfreak2k> It was good enough for Kernighan and Ritchie. 14:37:27 <SpComb> libpng uses longjmp for error handling, and using it is alright, although I think I'd just preferr using explicit error return codes for the library API 14:38:01 <TrueBrain> libpng sucks for its longjmp usage 14:38:02 * Rubidium agrees with SpComb 14:38:06 <TrueBrain> really sucks :s 14:38:21 <SpComb> you can set a new jmp_buf in each function where you call libpng 14:38:39 <SpComb> and I don't use threads at that point 14:38:43 <TrueBrain> SpComb: you mostly HAVE to set a new one ... 14:38:50 <TrueBrain> (to gain any sane error information) 14:39:00 <TrueBrain> a simple 'return error' would have worked as well :( 14:39:29 *** einKarl [~einKarl@91-66-180-201-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 14:39:29 <SpComb> the longjmp thing is less code for functions that call libpng many times, and it also works for sub-functions 14:40:01 * Rubidium likes to think that goto should be avoided if easily possible, but certainly not at all cost; deliberately (with thought) using it is fine, but it shouldn't be a habit of using it everywhere 14:40:14 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15007 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_event.hpp.sq: [NoAI] -Fix (r15005): squirrel_export.sh eats a tab in one file every single time for no good reason ... BAD SCRIPT! (tnx SmatZ for spotting) 14:41:48 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:44:20 <SpComb> but way too often you see some function where each function call with an error return code has its own if block with the same cleanup code copy-pasted into it 14:44:30 <SpComb> that really sucks 14:45:27 <TrueBrain> I love C++ :) 14:45:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15008 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Revert (r12706): remove fibers 14:45:44 <TrueBrain> (I just don't use throws enough :p) 14:46:27 <petern> all that work :p 14:46:35 *** elmex [~elmex@e180067015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:46:37 <SpComb> so you were talking about copy constructors earlier... 14:46:52 <SpComb> and how the existance of one impacts the performance of some other method implementation 14:48:12 <blathijs> SpComb: yeah? 14:48:17 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 14:48:55 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 14:49:04 <SpComb> it's interesting when you have things like default constructors or copy constructors that do syscalls, like an IPAddress class that calls getaddrinfo 14:49:24 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:35 <SpComb> then you strace your program and start wondering why you have seven billion completely useless syscalls for netlink sockets to get network interface addresses 14:50:36 <SpComb> turns out your code or the library code is causing default IPAddresses to be constructed or copied a couple times every time you receive a packet 14:50:58 <SpComb> the compiler can't optimize out calls to getaddrinfo 14:52:19 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:53:57 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 14:55:36 <SpComb> that's one of example of what I had to deal with when working on my first C++ application 14:56:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15009 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2528]: No need to extent the reserved path when the vehicle is still loading. 14:59:44 <petern> :D 15:00:03 *** shumway-dk [~finnerup@0x50a441a1.abnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:00:35 <shumway-dk> anyone able to help with a langhuage problem with openttd 15:01:29 <Belugas> yeah, someone might 15:02:12 <shumway-dk> my problem is it has changed the language in my game from english to danish and that is just plain annoying so i need some way to change it back to english 15:02:15 <TrueBrain> Belugas!!! :) :) :) 15:02:53 <TrueBrain> Game Options -> Language -> English 15:02:53 <TrueBrain> ;) 15:04:03 <shumway-dk> thanks that helped now ill play 15:04:09 *** shumway-dk [~finnerup@0x50a441a1.abnxx2.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 15:04:31 <petern> duh 15:04:33 <TrueBrain> ..... 15:04:35 <TrueBrain> omg .. 15:04:58 <TrueBrain> +1 (stupid user) 15:05:20 <Belugas> that was... VERY silly 15:05:27 <Belugas> hello TrueBrain :) 15:05:43 <SHRIKEE> lol 15:05:54 <TrueBrain> how is Belugas doing this day? :) 15:06:00 <TrueBrain> it is cold outside here :) 15:06:02 <TrueBrain> but no snow :( 15:06:06 <Gekz> omg 15:06:07 <Gekz> hilarious 15:06:18 <SHRIKEE> so it's a worthless cold then 15:06:37 <TrueBrain> yup 15:06:49 <SHRIKEE> bah :( 15:06:51 <frosch123> no, I already saw someone leaving his bicycle quite fast towards the floor 15:06:52 <SHRIKEE> here it's as bad 15:07:06 <petern> gah, what can i use to view a patch file on windows... 15:07:12 <petern> (with colours 'n stuff) 15:07:24 <TrueBrain> petern: wordpad 15:07:29 <petern> gay 15:07:35 <TrueBrain> notepad+ 15:08:08 <petern> tortoisesvn and winmerge will show diffs, but not from files, only actual changed files :/ 15:08:29 <Belugas> i'm doing fine, thnaks. just that work at work is so fucking demanding :( 15:08:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15010 /branches/noai/ (67 files in 8 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14994:15009 15:09:29 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:09:37 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:46 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:46 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 15:10:19 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 15:13:25 <Belugas> petern, notepad2 is what i use. works like a charm 15:13:32 <Belugas> color highligh and all 15:13:33 <petern> well 15:13:35 <petern> cba right now :) 15:13:43 <petern> will apply bits of patch tonight, i think 15:14:14 *** gynter [~gynter@78-28-82-100.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has joined #openttd 15:14:22 <Belugas> ? Canadian Bankers Association ? 15:14:34 <Belugas> Club de badminton d'Alma ? 15:14:42 <petern> can't be arsed 15:14:51 <Belugas> ;) 15:14:59 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37E4EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:16 *** Tim is now known as Tim-itry 15:19:32 <TrueBrain> petern: Nucleair or Nuclear 15:20:25 <Aali> Nuclear 15:20:34 <Aali> Nucleair? doesn't make sense :P 15:21:11 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:21:35 <Zuu> petern: (g)vim 15:22:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15011 /trunk/src/newgrf_cargo.h: -Documentation: Nuclear, not Nucleair 15:23:06 <petern> absolutely no need for those extended classes ;) 15:23:16 <petern> they're supposed to be user defined, heh 15:23:49 <petern> 0-7 is standard, 8-15 are custom 15:25:16 <Zuu> hmm, looking for (and fixing) artifacts from a dirty camera lens is a bit tricky on a dirty monitor. 15:25:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15012 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_core.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't close AIs on a client 15:25:28 *** FauxFaux [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:25:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15013 /branches/noai/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: make the diff between trunk and NoAI a tiny bit smaller 15:26:19 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has joined #openttd 15:26:30 <scia> hello 15:26:38 <Zuu> Hello scia 15:26:39 <scia> long time since i've been here ;) 15:27:23 <TrueBrain> so you missed us? :) 15:27:28 *** FauxFaux_ [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:27:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15014 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_func.h): -Codechange: Add a helper function to get the needed DC_xxx flags from the result of GetCommandFlags(). 15:29:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15015 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Fix (r14919): Distant-join always failed for docks. Based on patch by PhilSophus. 15:30:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15016 /branches/noai/src/settings.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: make the current default for suspend-blabla the same as the setting-to-be 15:31:26 <planetmaker> woah... I sense a comit-ing spree here... :) 15:32:35 <scia> hehe, I missed everything :p 15:32:50 <frosch123> planetmaker: would be easier, if you had done the splitting :p 15:33:06 <planetmaker> uh? 15:33:27 <planetmaker> I'm out of context... what do you refer to, frosch123? 15:33:41 <frosch123> puttint 2) and 3) in one patch 15:34:23 <frosch123> ah, ok, they affect different files 15:34:30 <planetmaker> ... which patch? 15:34:32 * planetmaker wonders 15:34:49 <frosch123> ah, sorry, planetmaker and philsophus both start with 'p' :))) 15:34:56 <planetmaker> :D 15:35:21 <planetmaker> Being mixed up with him is no slight ;) 15:35:25 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:38:37 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 15:39:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15017 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/squirrel_export.sh: [NoAI] -Fix: running squirrel_export.sh no longer gives a diff 15:43:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15018 /branches/noai/src/helpers.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (sync fix): helpers.cpp should have been removed (spotted by Rubidium) 15:44:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15019 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r14919): Close station selection window, when disabling distant-join setting. (PhilSophus) 15:44:53 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 15:48:38 *** vraa [~vraa@h25.81.141.67.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:49:05 <George> frosch123: Tell me please, what is the chance to have FS#2521 done this month? 15:49:39 <frosch123> by me: zero 15:50:46 <TrueBrain> by me: zero 15:51:41 <worldemar> what is FS#2521?) 15:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> slope information, i assume 15:54:02 * worldemar just read the topic >_< 15:56:03 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has joined #openttd 15:57:27 <Belugas> by me: zero 16:00:12 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 16:00:36 <Belugas> worldemar : http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2521 16:01:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15020 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: put 'script' in their own subfolder for MSVC 16:01:58 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:02:14 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:00 <Belugas> George, it's not out of bad will 16:03:21 <Belugas> let say it's bad to rush on something withouth thinking about it. 16:04:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15021 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_instance.cpp): [NoAI] -Codechange: minor changes and movements (nothing groundbreaking or anything) 16:04:12 *** M4rk [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:04:17 *** M4rk is now known as Mark 16:04:34 <frosch123> haha, "minor changes and movements (nothing groundbreaking or anything)" could also qualify for a merge :p 16:04:56 <worldemar> huh) 16:05:14 <Zuu> worldemar: entry number 2521 on flyspray (bugs.openttd.org) 16:05:25 <worldemar> Zuu: ok) 16:05:26 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I already said in an other channel: I wonder how many people suspect something else ;) 16:05:33 <Zuu> (oh, scrollback is evil) 16:05:36 * Belugas remembers a big commit by tron who was saying something like "nothing" important and was responsible of a lot of fixes ;) 16:06:11 <petern> heh 16:07:04 <Belugas> i see petern remebers that one too ^_^ 16:07:18 <Belugas> worldemar, why do you always end up your posts with ")" ? does it have a certain meaning for you? 16:07:53 <worldemar> Belugas: two posts makes you think it is always? 16:08:01 <frosch123> 3 16:08:48 <TrueBrain> and out of the 4 (5 by now), that is a pretty big number 16:09:20 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 16:09:47 <Belugas> well... yes, since those are the only ones i've seen from you, worldemar ;) 16:09:48 * worldemar is grepping log... 16:09:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15022 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_gui.cpp ai_gui.hpp ai_info_dummy.cpp ai_storage.hpp): [NoAI] -Cleanup: coding stylish 16:11:14 <worldemar> Belugas: both "(" and ")" has meaning for me. maybe it's just good evening... 16:11:14 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:35 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:12:37 <Belugas> so... ( is good and ) is evening... cool :) 16:13:34 <petern> ( ) 16:13:43 <petern> [ ] ' # / 16:14:08 <worldemar> something like a sed script 16:14:09 <TrueBrain> ( ) to you too petern :) 16:15:45 <OwenS> As long as we don't start talking in BF :-P 16:16:04 <worldemar> Belugas: "good evening" was about lots of ")" 16:16:34 <worldemar> OwenS: because it will be really BF 16:17:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15023 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: reorder some files in source.list to please MSVC 16:17:44 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@murrayjm8.umeres.maine.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:52 <OwenS> ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. to you too! :p 16:18:11 <worldemar> he did it >_< 16:18:11 <Forked> brainfuck is it? 16:18:37 <OwenS> yeah 16:19:04 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:59 *** dfox [~dfox@r5cv134.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 16:22:54 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:27:50 <petern> hmm 16:27:54 *** Mortal is now known as Guest118 16:27:54 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 16:28:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15024 /branches/noai/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Cleanup: remove some hacks 16:28:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.180.230] has joined #openttd 16:29:43 *** Guest118 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:20 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 16:31:35 *** mortal is now known as Guest119 16:31:35 *** mortal` is now known as mortal 16:32:09 <Belugas> toum te doum 16:35:31 <Forked> I agree. 16:36:21 <petern> hmm 16:37:44 *** Guest119 [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:37:55 <Belugas> bank processing, i do totally hate you from time to time :S 16:38:07 <petern> banlist loading doesn't support to work properly 16:38:34 <petern> or saving, one of the two 16:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> do i have to ask what 72 101 108 108 111 32 87 111 114 108 100 33 10 means? :p 16:41:35 <TrueBrain> numbers! 16:41:59 <blathijs> Could be ASCII I guess 16:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> at least that's what my internal brainfuck interpreter says... 16:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> of course it's ascii ;) 16:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm too lazy to open the table ;) 16:42:25 <blathijs> ending newline (10) most numbers above 97 (lowercase), but starting with an uppercase letter 16:42:29 <blathijs> 32 is a space 16:42:43 *** Tim-itry [~Tim@p5B37E4EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:43 <worldemar> it is "good evening" 16:42:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what's an A? 65? 16:42:51 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: yup 16:43:09 <worldemar> Good, to be precize 16:43:17 <blathijs> worldemar: Huh? 101 is not an "o" AFAICS 16:43:25 <worldemar> =_= 16:43:30 <blathijs> IIRC 96 is an a 16:43:32 <worldemar> ouch, really 16:43:42 <blathijs> worldemar: hey wait, the letters don't even match :-) 16:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 96? shouldn't a be odd? 16:43:58 <petern> space in the wrong place 16:44:03 <petern> 97 is a 16:44:10 <worldemar> seems like my brain isn't brainfuck interpreter 16:44:10 <worldemar> blathijs: yeah, i noticed) 16:44:12 <OwenS> 72 is H :P 16:44:15 <blathijs> Hmm, I thought 96 16:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause> should be a difference of 32 16:44:21 <petern> Hello World! 16:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. one flipped bit 16:44:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15025 /branches/noai/ (47 files in 7 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r15009:15019 16:44:40 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking 0-based, but it is 1-based 16:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ascii is cool, you know ;) 16:44:44 <petern> quite obvious 16:45:30 <OwenS> All I can ever remember of ASCII is that 0x3n are the numbers :p 16:45:31 <blathijs> ie, 0110000 + 1-based letter == lowercase and 01000000 + 1-based letter == uppercase 16:45:56 <petern> OwenS, wrong 16:45:56 <blathijs> OwenS: Oeh, I didn't know that one. *remembers* 16:46:20 <petern> oh, hex 16:46:21 <petern> sorry :) 16:46:28 <petern> yes 16:46:51 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-199.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> we had to implement an upper/lower case converter in hardware design 16:46:58 <OwenS> A lot of BCD math libs actually keep the numbers as ASCII strings actually :p 16:47:11 <petern> BCD is hardly necessary these days 16:47:14 <Eddi|zuHause> with don't cares for non-letters 16:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but some special escape letters 16:47:37 <OwenS> BCD is only useful for banking & calculators 16:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> to switch mode 16:47:40 <petern> BCD was designed so that conversion from in-memory to output was simple 16:47:43 <OwenS> I.E. where accuracy matters 16:47:51 <petern> hm 16:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> BCD is easy to read in hexdumps ;) 16:48:10 <OwenS> Yeah :P 16:48:16 <petern> you don't need BCD for accurate numbers 16:48:39 <SpComb> I tend to store my data as bits 16:48:40 <OwenS> It tends to be used in arbitrary precision applications 16:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember that we should design a BCD adder in hardware, too 16:49:13 <petern> one way of doing that is use a regular wide integer value and another value stating where the decimal point is 16:49:19 <petern> although maths might get tricky, heh 16:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which is useful for displaying on a 7-segment-LED 16:49:37 <OwenS> I personally like designing processors in Verilog :p 16:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> we used VHDL 16:49:53 * worldemar remembers his matrix multiplication script on bash 16:50:05 <OwenS> My brain and VHDL never agreeed 16:50:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might just have been a BCD counter, not adder 16:50:09 <SmatZ> we use VHDL primarily... but I think Verilog is better :) 16:50:11 <OwenS> Verilog just sticks better for me... 16:50:47 <OwenS> I've been designing a 32-bit pipelined processor 16:51:05 <OwenS> Lots of logic for stage interlocks :p 16:51:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't done much hardware stuff since the 4th semester 16:51:41 <blathijs> 17:49:13 <@petern> one way of doing that is use a regular wide integer value and another value stating where the decimal point is <-- Isn't that exactly what floating point is? 16:51:58 <OwenS> blathijs: No. Floating point says where the BINARY point is 16:52:09 <blathijs> Ah, yes 16:52:39 * worldemar keeps all hos floating points in aquarium 16:52:42 <petern> yeah 16:52:44 <worldemar> o=i 16:52:48 <OwenS> It's been fun deciding how to implement strcpy in hardware :p 16:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> binary is known to have problems with rather common values like 0.2 16:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which are "round" in decimal, but periodic in binary 16:53:15 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:53:21 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:53:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15026 /trunk/src/ (core/enum_type.hpp spritecache.cpp): -Codechange: use SpriteTypeByte instead of SpriteType in the SpriteCache struct in order to make it smaller 16:54:36 * OwenS doubts it's possible to implement strcpy in software faster than n/8+1 cycles best case 16:55:10 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> abusing MMX opcodes or something? 16:56:48 <OwenS> Even so it would take longer 16:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think they handle only 4 bytes 16:57:09 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 16:57:10 <OwenS> 8 16:57:11 <OwenS> SSE 16 16:57:24 <OwenS> And the hardware for strcpy isn't overtly complex either (perhaps my pipeline is bizzare :P ) 16:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> now find software for which strcopy is the bottleneck :p 16:58:29 <OwenS> memcpy is that fast too (actually faster) 16:58:47 <SmatZ> OwenS: what if you are forbidden to read past the terminating 0? 16:59:00 <SpComb> duff's device 16:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> memcopy is strcopy without checking for 0? 16:59:04 <SmatZ> you have to read byte-by-byte then 16:59:05 <OwenS> SmatZ: And when does this happen if the strings are 16-byte aligned? 16:59:28 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: you give memcpy a length 16:59:32 <OwenS> On x86, you can only fault on 4kb boundaries 16:59:50 <SmatZ> OwenS: when you are using for example debug registers to catch reads out of array borders 16:59:53 <SpComb> strings are 16-byte aligned? :/ 17:00:10 <SmatZ> OwenS: segment limits??? 17:00:12 <planetmaker> not only strings. 17:00:14 <OwenS> SpComb: Do the first n unaligned bytes as bytes, then do the rest at 16 byte alignment 17:00:19 <OwenS> SmatZ: Name me one OS which uses segments! 17:01:07 <SmatZ> OwenS: DOS 17:01:08 <SpComb> Microsoft SQL server uses segmented memory on 32-bit platforms! 17:01:18 <SmatZ> and even Windows do 17:01:26 <SmatZ> I don't know about linux 17:01:44 <OwenS> DOS uses Real Mode segments, which are vastly different; Windows uses FS and GS for special purposes, but you never store strings in them (pointers at most) 17:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> this discussion is getting way too technical 17:02:56 <OwenS> Linux will let you use GS for thread local storage; but again you will never have a pointer which uses GS since the C standard hasn't heard of segments ;-) 17:03:50 <Belugas> butterscotch and peanuts popcorn 17:03:51 <Belugas> miam 17:04:07 <Belugas> could hold a whole bag 17:05:15 <Belugas> eat...not hold 17:05:37 <blathijs> They usually go hand in hand 17:05:44 <planetmaker> Belugas: I would rather recommend to eat what's IN the bag - not the bag itself ;) 17:05:45 <blathijs> for humans anyway 17:05:47 <SmatZ> OwenS: things you are talking about are implementation-specific 17:06:02 <OwenS> Which things? 17:06:05 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd [] 17:06:15 <SmatZ> like malloc returning data aligned at 16B 17:06:43 <SmatZ> but you can't suppose the string will begin at 16B boundary 17:06:46 <OwenS> Malloc is guaranteed to return memory aligned to the platform's biggest data structure 17:06:50 <SmatZ> like, strcpy(a, b+1) 17:07:09 <OwenS> But, in any case, have strcpy handle any unaligned leader bytes byte-by-byte 17:07:15 <petern> guaranteed? 17:08:01 <OwenS> man malloc: "For calloc() and malloc(), return a pointer to the allocated memory, which is suitably aligned for any kind of variable" 17:08:06 <OwenS> Similar in C and POSIX 17:08:23 <SpComb> is a one-byte malloc 16-byte aligned? 17:08:24 <OwenS> Since x86 has 16-byte aligned types, the memory must be 16-byte aligned 17:08:30 <OwenS> SpComb: Yes 17:08:51 <SmatZ> OwenS: you are still talking about implementation specific problems 17:09:11 <OwenS> If your using SSE, your malloc returns 16 byte aligned variables else SSE is not usable! 17:09:12 <SmatZ> malloc may return "unaligned" pointers, if they can be used to point to any data structure 17:09:21 <SmatZ> implementation-specific 17:09:48 <Belugas> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41381 <-- new excuse for not searching on the forums... I'm VERY VERY NEW to OpenTTD 17:09:52 <Belugas> pffff... 17:10:10 <OwenS> In any case, how did we end up discussing SSE when I was discussing implementing strcpy/memcpy as a CPU instruction? ... 17:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... "Assi-gnNode" looks like an odd hyphenation 17:10:42 <petern> on x86, mallocs are not all 16-byte aligned 17:11:05 <petern> or something 17:11:05 <OwenS> petern: name one OS on which they are not yet SSE is enabled 17:11:18 <petern> maybe they are, and i'm thinking of other stuff 17:11:25 <petern> it's not gauranteed, though 17:11:31 <OwenS> If SSE is disabled, hypothetically they could be 8 byte 17:11:36 <petern> not by malloc 17:12:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15027 /trunk/ (311 files in 30 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:12:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see. 17:12:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: NoAI is an API (a framework) to build your own AIs in. See: 17:12:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/AI:Main_Page 17:12:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: With many thanks to: 17:12:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - glx and Rubidium for their syncing, feedback and hard work 17:12:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Yexo for his feedback, patches, and AIs which tested the system very deep 17:12:12 <petern> (not gauranteed to be 16, that is) 17:12:27 <OwenS> POSIX: "The pointer returned if the allocation succeeds shall be suitably aligned so that it may be assigned to a pointer to any type of object and then used to access such an object in the space allocated (until the space is explicitly freed or reallocated)." 17:12:45 <OwenS> "it may be assigned to a pointer to any type of object and then used to access such an object in the space allocated" 17:13:49 <OwenS> On x86, it has to be 16 byte aligned because SSE has separate aligned and unaligned load instructions 17:13:49 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:01 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:14:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15028 /branches/noai/: [NoAI] -Remove: NoAI branch, as it is now merged with trunk 17:14:17 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:25 <SpComb> hmm, NoAI 17:14:29 <SmatZ> OwenS: you have no 128bit data type specified in the C standard 17:14:32 <SpComb> this is merge-day 17:14:39 <SmatZ> so C standard can't say anything about this 17:15:06 <SmatZ> that is... you have char, short, int, long (and long long in C99) 17:15:13 <SmatZ> all with implementation-specific sizes 17:15:28 * worldemar dreams about long long long long 17:16:06 <OwenS> If your compiler supplies an 128-bit type (Which GCC and MSVC do), then according to both POSIX and the C Standard malloc must return suitable memory 17:16:28 <Swallow> Congratulations on getting NoAI in trunk! 17:16:52 <OwenS> Things are already getting pretty implementation specific if your using SSE anyway ;-) 17:17:22 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 17:17:42 <blathijs> OwenS: That sounds rather impossible, that libc malloc should behave different depending on what compiler is used 17:18:12 <OwenS> blathijs: libc and the compiler are considered as one unit with regards to the C standard's references to them 17:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> next merge is cargodest :p 17:18:55 <petern> ./test 17:18:55 <petern> a0x9d4b008 (1) b0x9d4b018 (2) c0x9d4b028 (4) d0x9d4b038 (8) 17:18:57 <Rubidium> lol ;) 17:19:03 <petern> 16 byte alignment, ending on 8? :p 17:19:31 <OwenS> petern: What platform? 17:19:38 <petern> x86 17:19:46 <OwenS> I'm probably too used to the x86_64 ABI 17:20:12 <SmatZ> OwenS: all I can find in C99 specs is that pointers ... are aligned to be able to access data ... but nothing about the alignment as such 17:20:26 <SmatZ> like, on x86, you can access data aligned at 1B boundary (except x86) 17:20:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15029 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Cleanup (r15027): remove strings that aren't needed anymore 17:20:35 <SmatZ> err except some SSE instructions 17:20:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DBC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:21:34 <OwenS> (1) 224d010 (2) 224d030 (4) 224d050 (8) 224d070 17:21:46 <OwenS> I'll admit I truncated off the top 4 bytes there :p 17:22:28 <petern> they're all 32 byte aligned 17:22:34 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:22:44 <petern> sort of :) 17:22:50 <SpComb> there's the malloc overhead 17:22:50 <petern> 16 byte aligned, then a 16 byte gap 17:22:52 <petern> yeah 17:22:56 <petern> the hidden stuff you never see 17:22:57 <SpComb> two pointers 17:23:05 <OwenS> Depends upon the implementation 17:23:09 <petern> quite so 17:23:14 <OwenS> Two pointers, two size_ts, pointer and size_t, 17:23:24 <SmatZ> ...10 ...30 ...50 ...70 isn't 32B aligned :-P 17:23:55 <OwenS> 16 bytes is quite an important size though since it's the size of a cache line... 17:24:00 <petern> no 17:24:02 <OwenS> On most x86 17:24:04 <petern> i meant 32 byte offset 17:24:20 <SmatZ> cache_alignment : 64 17:24:30 <SmatZ> for my CPU 17:24:40 <petern> i don't have that :/ 17:24:40 <OwenS> O_o theyve been pushing it up 17:24:47 <petern> clflush size : 64 17:24:50 <OwenS> petern: cat /proc/cpuinfo 17:24:51 <petern> if that's a similar thing 17:24:54 <SmatZ> cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep cache :) 17:25:00 <SmatZ> ah 17:25:10 * SpComb 2048KB 17:25:12 <petern> yeah, that only returns cache size 17:25:12 <worldemar> cache size : 4096 KB 17:25:12 <worldemar> cache_alignment : 64 17:25:17 <OwenS> address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual 17:25:21 <OwenS> Hehe 17:25:31 <petern> i think you only see some things on amd64 17:25:43 <OwenS> cache size : 512 KB <- What happened to my L3 cache? 17:25:44 <petern> 40 physical? hmm 17:25:51 <OwenS> Intels are 36 physical IIRC 17:25:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15030 /trunk/src/lang/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Update (r15029): and from the other languages too (yay for WT2) 17:25:54 <Forked> mmm 640 kilobytes 17:29:15 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: now check what the compile-time does in your graphs ;) 17:29:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.180.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:17 <petern> yeah 17:29:35 <petern> core 2 anyway, i dunno about xeons 17:29:40 <petern> 64GB seems enough 17:29:46 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: +30k lines ;) 17:29:58 <petern> so what does noai allow now? 17:30:03 <petern> and will tron revert it? :p 17:30:07 <SmatZ> :-D 17:30:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.170.176] has joined #openttd 17:30:28 <TrueBrain> I think I will book a ticket and kill him or something 17:30:29 <TrueBrain> :p 17:31:28 <SpComb> someone on #mysql has 128GB of memory 17:31:30 <SpComb> *had 17:31:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15031 /trunk/src/ (core/enum_type.hpp spritecache.cpp): -Fix (r15027): merge reverted r15026, so do it once again 17:32:12 <petern> lol 17:32:12 <worldemar> SpComb: not at home, i think... 17:32:38 <yorick> how do I change graphics when landing aircraft? 17:32:52 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:09 <yorick> hello ruud 17:33:19 <planetmaker> congrats to all devs for NoAI trunk :) 17:33:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15032 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix (r15030): Rubidium was too script-happy ;) 17:33:55 <TrueBrain> tnx planetmaker :) 17:33:59 <Zuu> Ideed, a good congras to all people behind NoAI :) 17:34:21 <yorick> mh, oh, congrats TB, glx, rubidium, yexo, morloth, TJIP, otherpeople 17:34:23 <planetmaker> I have a peculiar idea what the next game on our servers will be like :) 17:34:43 <SpComb> you could write an openttdcoop AI 17:35:00 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: any problems, let us know ;) 17:35:06 <OwenS> SpComb: What, one which builds rail networks of ridiculous complexity? 17:35:08 <SpComb> yes 17:35:11 <planetmaker> SpComb: yeah... but there are some already :) 17:35:12 <TrueBrain> for all developers: 'make regression' does a big AI test for sanity ;) 17:35:19 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: be sure of that! :) 17:35:34 <SpComb> AI sanity test 17:35:37 <OwenS> TrueBrain: It doesn't make a regression? =( 17:36:28 <TrueBrain> it does a regression check 17:36:31 <TrueBrain> two different things ;) 17:36:47 <Belugas> ho my ho my ho my 17:36:47 <OwenS> Then the name lies :p 17:37:26 <TrueBrain> not really :) 17:37:29 <TrueBrain> just your interpertation of it :) 17:37:54 <goodger> OwenS: suggest you symlink "check" to "make" in PATH :P 17:39:14 <petern> hmm, src/3rdparty 17:39:34 <frosch123> \o/ svn up does not conflict 17:39:41 <TrueBrain> concratz frosch123 ;) 17:40:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15033 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_object.cpp: -Fix (r15027): silent a warning when compiling without network 17:40:38 <petern> silent!¬ 17:40:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15034 /trunk/source.list: -Fix (r15027): NoAI framework no longer needs threads, so don't make source.list believe it does 17:41:15 <TrueBrain> anyway ... sorry all about the extra compile-time ;) 17:41:21 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: let me know when you have time-stats for that ;) 17:41:38 <Belugas> tron, i invoke you!!! 17:41:39 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: takes about 30 minutes... 17:41:49 <Belugas> Let See Your Mighty Wrath!! 17:42:55 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B816E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [icebears... take care of them!] 17:45:55 *** Zorn [zorn@e177236230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:47:01 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has joined #openttd 17:47:04 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 17:48:18 <planetmaker> [SRC] DEP ai/api/ai_object.cpp 17:48:20 <planetmaker> make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/Users/ingo/ottd/trunk.hg/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp', needed by `3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.d'. Stop. 17:48:50 <frosch123> your external fetch failed? 17:49:02 <planetmaker> in r15034. 17:49:04 <planetmaker> So... I need squirrel? 17:49:05 <planetmaker> I got no complaint from hg 17:49:37 <TrueBrain> svn has 'svn externals' 17:49:38 <TrueBrain> hg doesn't 17:49:39 <planetmaker> but there's no squirrel.h 17:49:43 <TrueBrain> so you need to do that yourself 17:49:56 <TrueBrain> in src/3rdparty, get 'squirrel' from svn://svn.openttd.org/3rdparty/squirrel 17:49:59 <planetmaker> ok... what do I need? Or where do I find what I need? 17:49:59 <TrueBrain> (of the hg variant :p) 17:50:04 <TrueBrain> we should make configure check for that I guess :) 17:50:16 <planetmaker> ok, will have a look :) - and yes, would be a good idea :) 17:50:39 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has quit [] 17:50:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Is Squirrel staying? Or is it eventually gonna be replaced? 17:51:02 <glx> time will say 17:51:17 <TrueBrain> it will be replaced 17:51:18 <TrueBrain> takes time :) 17:51:22 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:51:26 <OwenS> Then again, my project will need it's own language anyway since I need to ban loops :p 17:51:48 <orudge> NoAI merged into trunk :o 17:51:56 <orudge> very good 17:52:17 <planetmaker> hm... where do I checkout that 3rd party thing to? 17:52:32 <yorick> does that still need to be done manually? 17:52:43 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: as I said: src/3rdparty 17:52:43 <OwenS> yorick: Mercurial only 17:52:54 <yorick> ...what 17:53:08 *** Zorni [zorn@e177236230.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:28 <yorick> so you mean it can't be done as automagically as it could? 17:53:30 <planetmaker> you might want to include that, so that a simple trunk co actually compiles :) 17:53:49 <glx> planetmaker: it works for svn 17:54:02 <yorick> I don't use svn. 17:54:04 <TrueBrain> for svn, it is all automated 17:54:05 <planetmaker> hm... not for hg anymore :) 17:54:10 <TrueBrain> your problem 17:54:12 * OwenS wonders if people would complain that a simple RPN language was too complex for signals :p 17:54:14 <planetmaker> pah... 17:54:17 <yorick> then remove hg completely 17:54:22 <blathijs> OwenS: You need to ban loops? 17:54:26 <blathijs> OwenS: For what? 17:54:26 <Zuu> hmm hg qpush says "abort: local changes found, refresh first" but 'hg commit -m " "' says "nothing changed" and 'hg qpush' aborts with same abort message again. (I have qpop:ed all patches and made 'svn up') 17:54:30 <yorick> people will go complain 17:54:31 <TrueBrain> @kban 60 yorick hg removed 17:54:31 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: 60 is not in #openttd. 17:54:32 <OwenS> blathijs: Programmable signals 17:54:37 <TrueBrain> @kban yorick 60 hg removed 17:54:39 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by DorpsGek 17:54:39 *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [hg removed] 17:54:52 <Zuu> previously I have fixed this with hg qpush --force, but that seams to give interesting file changes in my patches. 17:55:12 <Aali> hg is really stupid sometimes, try reverting 17:55:14 <TrueBrain> I hate people who can only wine .. 17:55:24 <Zuu> Aali: Reverting hg or svn? 17:55:34 <Aali> wait 17:55:37 <Zuu> I've made 'svn revert -R src' 17:55:41 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by DorpsGek 17:55:46 <Aali> you have a hg queue in your svn repo or what? 17:55:46 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:56:11 <Swallow> Zuu: qrefresh might be what you need 17:56:18 <Zuu> Aali: Yes, so I update trunk using svn, but manages my queues with hg. 17:56:27 <Aali> Zuu: but why? :P 17:56:36 <planetmaker> he, indeed :) 17:56:37 <Aali> just use a hg repo 17:56:58 <planetmaker> I pull trunk using hg and have a few clones which pull from my trunk copy 17:57:02 <Zuu> Aali: Because I already know how to checkout with svn. :) 17:57:12 <planetmaker> :P 17:57:28 <Aali> hg clone http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg <whatever> 17:57:31 <Aali> and you're done :P 17:58:21 <yorick> so now I need to do hg clone http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/3rdparty/squirrel.hg/ src/3rdparty/squirrel? 17:58:30 <Zuu> It would be good if 'hg diff' could tell me what files that block patch push. :/ 17:58:31 <Aali> sure 17:58:56 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:57 <Aali> Zuu: and it does that in a hg repo :P 17:59:03 <fjb> Hello 17:59:04 <yorick> then I can't use hg addremove anymore :/ 18:00:07 <Aali> yorick: hg doesn't traverse sub-repos 18:00:09 <dihedral> TrueBrain: did you not miss two zeros on that kban command? 18:00:23 <Aali> it'll be like that repo isn't even there 18:00:28 <Zuu> Aali: But my idea was that i hg qpop to bottom, make a svn up, and then do hg commit -m "r12345" and then hg qpush me up again. 18:00:29 <OwenS> How about 3600? :P 18:00:48 <Aali> Zuu: why would you do that? 18:01:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sirius-r5.ne2000.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:07 <Zuu> Aali: Because i would not need to learn hg other than the queuing part. But my issues probably show that my shortcut was not really a shortcut. :) 18:02:18 <yorick> it doesn't even error when missing squirrel, only [make] error 2 18:02:29 <Aali> learning hg is not that hard :P 18:02:45 <Aali> and you'll never do it if you don't try 18:03:58 <planetmaker> seems to work now though with two warnings: /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk.hg/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: In static member function 'static bool AITile::PlantTree(TileIndex)': 18:03:59 <planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk.hg/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp:216: warning: passing negative value '-0x00000000000000001' for argument 2 to 'static bool AIObject::DoCommand(TileIndex, uint32, uint32, uint, const char*, void (*)(AIInstance*))' 18:04:01 <planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk.hg/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: In static member function 'static bool AITile::PlantTreeRectangle(TileIndex, uint, uint)': 18:04:03 <planetmaker> /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk.hg/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp:226: warning: passing negative value '-0x00000000000000001' for argument 2 to 'static bool AIObject::DoCommand(TileIndex, uint32, uint32, uint, const char*, void (*)(AIInstance*))' 18:04:14 <yorick> it doesn't compile here 18:04:22 <yorick> I'll test on another copy 18:04:29 <planetmaker> I did exactly what you posted, yorick ;) 18:04:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain, how about revising that 3600 upwards to 86400? :p 18:05:25 <Zuu> Anyhow, hg qpush -force, and then a diff of my patch before and after svn up shows no problems this time. So I can stick my head into the sand a little while more. :D 18:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15035 /trunk/config.lib: 18:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r15027): if case people don't use SVN (which we advise), they do not 18:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: receive src/3rdparty/squirrel automaticly. Warn when not found, and advise what 18:05:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: to do (this to avoid stupid users like yorick get all confused and agressive) 18:05:43 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I get my fun out of other things ;) 18:06:21 <Forked> ah yes, calling the users stupid.. always fun.. but to their face? :p 18:06:39 <SmatZ> :'-( 18:06:50 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: nice error; I wonder why no other compiler noticed it 18:07:04 <TrueBrain> Forked: not 'their' .. a single person :) Which makes all the difference ) 18:07:20 <Forked> aha 18:07:21 <planetmaker> Aeolus:~/ottd/trunk.hg ingo$ Your script made an error: the index 'SetSetting' does not exist <-- when starting the binary 18:07:46 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: because of that maybe: gcc --version 18:07:48 <planetmaker> i686-apple-darwin8-gcc-4.0.1 (GCC) 4.0.1 (Apple Computer, Inc. build 5363) 18:07:48 <SmatZ> planetmaker: update your AI 18:07:58 <planetmaker> SmatZ: I have no AI ;) 18:08:01 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: update your AIs ;) 18:08:32 <dihedral> TrueBrain: nice commit message :-) 18:08:39 <planetmaker> ok... never did that. Let me guess: RTFM ;) 18:09:05 <dihedral> RTFG too 18:09:12 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no, if you really don't have an extra AI 18:09:12 <planetmaker> but where's TFM :) 18:09:14 <TrueBrain> it should not error 18:09:27 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: clean trunk. Nothing there at all. 18:09:40 <TrueBrain> but there was an API change today 18:09:47 <TrueBrain> any AI you download from the forum is most likely broken at this moment 18:09:52 <planetmaker> only thing is that hg clone ... which yorick posted to get squirrel there 18:09:52 <SmatZ> planetmaker: and in your ~/.openttd forlder? 18:09:55 <OwenS> TrueBrain: May I suggest that libraries have a minor version number also, which must be greater than or equal to the requested? 18:09:55 <TrueBrain> ls bin/ai gives you what? 18:10:09 <TrueBrain> ah the ~/.openttd/ai folder yes ;) 18:10:19 <planetmaker> ls bin/ai 18:10:21 <planetmaker> library regression wrightai 18:10:28 <Zuu> TrueBrain: It's not wrightAI or does it use the AddSetting? 18:10:31 <planetmaker> ah... there.... let me see 18:10:32 <TrueBrain> OwenS: and what good does that do? 18:10:40 <TrueBrain> Zuu: WrightAI is changed already :) 18:10:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain, Allows you to add functions to a library without breaking backwards compatibility 18:10:52 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/temp.patch 18:11:01 <TrueBrain> fixed planetmaker's bug, in a way which is consistant through-out the code ;) 18:11:30 <yorick> mhm 18:11:38 <TrueBrain> OwenS: minor versions are completely overrated .. for good reason we removed it from the saveload code :) 18:11:46 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you can do that already; just don't update the version at all ;) 18:11:59 <OwenS> Then some AI crashes when it tries to use a too new function :p 18:12:01 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: in ~/Documents/OpenTTD/ai there're obviously two old admirals ;) 18:12:09 <TrueBrain> OwenS: besides, you are allowed to run multiple library functions next to eachother :) 18:12:18 <TrueBrain> ah, true, yes :) 18:12:33 <OwenS> Minor versions work better with code than files :p 18:12:39 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: see ;) 18:12:39 <yorick> http://openttd.pastebin.com/m77e0b340 18:12:46 <yorick> error while compiling 18:12:50 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: http://paste.openttd.org/178716 I guess this is the final stop for gcc2 18:12:56 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, I can see why you want that, yes, but ... not at this stage :) 18:13:01 <yorick> don't mind the hg sha deprecation warning 18:13:06 <TrueBrain> I will put it on the list to consider :) 18:13:28 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: oh shit .. hmm .. gcc2 .. we did fix that at some point 18:13:33 <TrueBrain> just I guess it got reintroduced ;) 18:13:41 <yorick> I have gcc4 18:13:48 <yorick> it doesn't compile ;) 18:13:49 <OwenS> Better question: Why are people still using GCC2 ? 18:13:59 <OwenS> Are they also using Red Hat 9 and Debian Woody? 18:14:01 <planetmaker> ok, with the old AIs gone, there's no warning :) Ty TB 18:14:10 <TrueBrain> OwenS: MorphOS 18:14:40 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: if you can check if moving code around a bit can help? 18:15:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15036 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_tile.cpp tree_gui.cpp): -Fix: use the same value for 'random' through-out the code for PlantTree 18:15:32 <TrueBrain> and ty planetmaker for letting me know the warning :) 18:15:37 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Theres GCC 4 for PowerPC also! 18:15:57 <OwenS> Why are they not using a modern compiler?! 18:16:01 <TrueBrain> OwenS: PowerPC != MorphOS :) 18:16:05 <TrueBrain> MorphOS happens to run on a ppc 18:16:21 <OwenS> What I'm saying is... theres no reason for them not to support GCC4 18:16:31 <TrueBrain> because their binary format is not supported by it 18:16:51 <planetmaker> OwenS: it's work... 18:16:59 <TrueBrain> man-power 18:17:03 <TrueBrain> is most likely the reason ;) 18:17:06 <OwenS> planetmaker: And GCC2 is a fossil 18:17:13 <OwenS> *afk food* 18:17:18 <TrueBrain> it is not that easy to port your morphos binary support stuff from gcc2 to gcc4 ;) 18:17:19 <glx> <TrueBrain> planetmaker: nice error; I wonder why no other compiler noticed it <-- win9x build should have it in the logs 18:17:23 <TrueBrain> I agree, food :) 18:17:25 <SmatZ> @kban owens you are fossil 18:17:26 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 18:17:28 <OwenS> TrueBrain: OK, add elf support to MrophOS :p 18:17:28 <SmatZ> :-p 18:17:44 <planetmaker> :P 18:17:56 <TrueBrain> OwenS: see, that is a more sane thing to do ;) 18:18:30 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: it appears to be case sensitive for some weird reason :p 18:18:48 <SmatZ> @kban OwenS you are fossil 18:18:48 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 18:18:53 <SmatZ> I don't have rights... 18:18:58 <TrueBrain> @kban OwenS you are fossil 18:18:59 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] by DorpsGek 18:18:59 *** OwenS was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you are fossil] 18:19:02 <SmatZ> hehe 18:19:03 <TrueBrain> clearly .. 18:19:08 <TrueBrain> weird, it shouldn't error .. 18:19:09 <planetmaker> it helps to be admin, I was told... 18:19:12 <TrueBrain> @op 18:19:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek 18:19:32 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I don't know how to fix that :-/ 18:19:38 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] by TrueBrain 18:19:39 <TrueBrain> @deop 18:19:39 *** mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek 18:19:41 <SpComb> chanop abuse D: 18:19:43 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I only can ;) 18:19:48 <TrueBrain> you registered yourself to DorpsGek? 18:19:55 <SmatZ> I don't know? 18:20:04 <SmatZ> probably not 18:20:19 <TrueBrain> @whois SmatZ 18:20:49 <SmatZ> :-x 18:20:56 <glx> @whois glx 18:20:56 <Zuu> @whois TrueBrain 18:21:05 <glx> @whoami 18:21:05 <DorpsGek> glx: glx 18:21:07 <SmatZ> @whoami 18:21:07 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I don't recognize you. 18:21:25 <TrueBrain> I hate my SSL delay in IRC chat :( 18:21:29 <glx> you identified yourself ? 18:21:40 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: so register yourself to DorpsGek, and I can give you slightly more rights ;) 18:21:44 <TrueBrain> but now for real: FOOD! 18:21:50 <SpComb> what's wrong with chanserv? 18:21:50 <SmatZ> bye bye TrueBrain 18:22:33 <planetmaker> SpComb: nothing, but DorpsGek is more mighty than chanserv ;) 18:22:46 <planetmaker> I assume at least. Or more comfortable 18:22:48 <SpComb> DorpsGek lacks the magical powers of ChanServ 18:23:01 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 18:28:35 <Zuu> Oh, my compile time only raised form 11 to 15 minutes :) 18:29:10 <TrueBrain> haha @ Zuu :) 18:29:16 <TrueBrain> install ccache :) 18:29:35 * planetmaker will time it after foooood! 18:29:36 <Zuu> TrueBrain: But that is useless with only a laptop. 18:29:58 <Zuu> If I recall correctly ccache distributes the job over several PCs? 18:30:12 <Aali> thats distcc 18:30:16 <Zuu> hmm 18:30:33 <glx> <TrueBrain> install ccache :) <-- ask Rubidium about ccache ;) 18:30:39 * Zuu looks up ccache 18:31:03 *** Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D219.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:33:04 <Aali> hmm, full release build with some extra patches, 2:20 18:33:08 <Aali> not bad 18:33:51 <Zuu> 2:20 is indeed good. 18:34:59 <Rubidium> yup... ccache is nice, until you notice that it caches too aggressively; like when you notice that with a full recompile without ccache you get lots of compile errors 18:35:48 <glx> or you search the cause of an assert ;) 18:36:09 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:11 <glx> 2:30 with mingw 18:37:27 <yorick> it doesn't compile here with mingw 18:37:40 <glx> then you failed somewhere 18:37:48 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:38:04 <glx> it always compiled for me, same with MSVC 18:39:14 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host75-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:39:24 <Belugas> it does not compile in here either 18:39:26 <Belugas> ho... 18:39:28 <Belugas> wait... 18:39:43 <Belugas> i've got no C++ compiler hehehe 18:39:49 <glx> :) 18:39:56 <Wolf01> if you are waiting my hello you fail 18:39:58 <Wolf01> :D 18:40:09 <TrueBrain> lol @ Wolf01 18:40:15 <glx> you just did it so you failed 18:40:20 <Wolf01> congratulations devs for that wonderful commit! 18:40:22 <goodger> Wolf01: we've long since given up on expecting you to speak 18:40:43 <Wolf01> goodger, if you didn't notice, I speak when you're not here :P 18:41:03 <TrueBrain> and I can;t blame you Wolf01 18:41:05 <goodger> *tut* 18:41:12 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 18:41:30 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, very nice commit message :) 18:41:35 <TrueBrain> and tnx Wolf01 :) 18:41:48 <Belugas> hey Wolf01 :) 18:42:25 <Wolf01> hello mister :P 18:42:43 <Wolf01> so now you should have more spare time to help me developing the sloped stations 18:42:59 <TrueBrain> lol :) 18:44:17 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:44:31 <OwenS> pfft 18:44:48 <OwenS> Banning & kicking me while I'm away! 18:44:58 <TrueBrain> had a nice dinner OwenS? :) 18:45:05 <goodger> ^_^ 18:45:46 <OwenS> Mostly ^^ 18:46:21 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: hello] 18:46:49 * OwenS wonders what other instructions he can splice into his string unit 18:47:05 <yorick> OwenS: fossile :p 18:50:18 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 18:56:56 *** scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:32 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:57:35 <Belugas> fossile? somebody older than me?? 18:57:35 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:37 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 18:58:54 *** [com]buster is now known as retsub[moc] 18:59:53 <glx> yorick: tried make clean ? 19:00:28 <yorick> I tried a new clone ;) 19:00:34 <petern> hmm, i guess 3rdparty makes hg much harder? :o 19:00:59 <yorick> btw, it's easy to fix 19:01:10 <TrueBrain> 'much' ... just a bit :) 19:01:26 <yorick> you need to do 2 clones 19:01:49 <Belugas> and then you'll end up a clown 19:01:52 <Belugas> houhou 19:01:57 <petern> i thought squirrel was being ditched anyway :/ 19:01:59 <yorick> btw, #include "../../station_base.h" 19:02:06 <yorick> fixed my error 19:02:06 <SmatZ> Belugas: gcc 2 :-P 19:02:22 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:02:45 <petern> note: pressing f6 without f-lock on does not achieve compilage 19:03:12 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:03:13 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g227029129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:04:07 <petern> right so how do AIs work? 19:04:35 <SmatZ> hehe :) 19:05:00 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:30 <goodger> petern: when computers become powerful enough and gather enough information, they spontaneously develop consciousness 19:05:40 <SHRIKEE> ofcourse 19:05:44 <SHRIKEE> it's how AI works 19:05:53 <petern> yers 19:05:59 <goodger> or at least, so is the central premise of a number of star trek episodes and a film :S 19:07:08 <SHRIKEE> so when can we expect a streetview interface for openttd? 19:07:38 <OwenS> SHRIKEE, When we develop an algorithm for extracting perspective from 2D sprites and filling in back faces 19:07:46 <SHRIKEE> great 19:07:47 <SHRIKEE> :P 19:07:54 <goodger> OwenS: I believe that's been done already :S 19:08:03 <SHRIKEE> so real soon then 19:08:13 <OwenS> And when CSI share with us their image enahncement algorithms 19:08:25 <goodger> someone used it to add extra detail to videos by transplanting still photographs into them 19:08:44 <goodger> SHRIKEE: so you should expect it on the seventeenth of july 2011 19:08:48 <OwenS> goodger: Yeah, but they haven't developed a back face filler :p 19:08:54 <SHRIKEE> not sooner? :( 19:09:01 <petern> do we only get WrightAI? 19:09:14 <goodger> hmm 19:09:18 <goodger> maybe the friday before... 19:09:22 <SHRIKEE> ah good 19:09:24 <goodger> so perhaps the 15th 19:09:27 <TrueBrain> petern: for now; yes. the rest is on the forum :) 19:09:49 <frosch123> there is currently no working AI on the forum :p 19:09:53 <SHRIKEE> i cleaned up my install the other day... stripped out 200mb of i dunno what 19:09:57 * OwenS wonders how hes gonna shift 33k passengers away from this station 19:09:57 <SHRIKEE> but ingame nothing changed 19:10:07 <SHRIKEE> i guess it's all mods and stuff 19:10:23 <goodger> OwenS: quadruple the size and run maglevs 19:10:24 <petern> that's a bit weak 19:10:39 *** mikl [~mikl@80.199.116.190.static.peytz.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:44 <TrueBrain> Yexo: update your AI already :p 19:10:51 <petern> we need to replace wrightai with something more general 19:11:04 <OwenS> goodger, It's Maglev (well, Shinkansen), and I can't quadruple the size because theres CBD on all 3Âœ sides 19:11:07 <petern> do the AIs understand the difficulty settings? 19:11:25 <OwenS> WrightAI makes me think of two things: The Wright Flyer, and Will Wright... 19:11:39 <goodger> *nod 19:11:43 <SHRIKEE> hmmm a 64x64 map is a bit smaller than i thought :O 19:11:49 <TrueBrain> petern: understand .. well .. they can read it :) 19:11:50 <petern> OwenS, it's aircraft only. take a guess... 19:11:56 <TrueBrain> OwenS: good thought :) 19:12:00 <TrueBrain> petern: in time 19:12:14 <petern> before 0.7.0 19:13:29 <TrueBrain> petern: make one ;) 19:15:20 <petern> no thanks 19:15:48 <OwenS> Even worse: Said station with 32k passengers is at capacity already (and has 8 platforms full of 11 tile long trains) 19:16:48 <petern> Failed WrightAI 19:17:03 <petern> will that be removed? 19:17:05 <goodger> OwenS: extend the station 19:17:16 <yorick> there is no such thing as aircrafts :p 19:17:16 <TrueBrain> it happens 19:17:19 <goodger> or add a parallel line of buses 19:17:29 <Yexo> petern: try a more flat map 19:17:34 <yorick> at least now it knows it fails and tries to bankrupt itself asap 19:17:46 <Aali> WrightAI is.. simple :P 19:18:04 <OwenS> goodger: Extend the station where: Into city, into city, into city and canal, or into entrance junction? 19:18:29 <OwenS> It's landlocked on all sides 19:18:36 <Aali> petern: AIs are affected by competitor build speed 19:18:48 <Aali> and start time, of course 19:18:48 *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [hello] 19:19:08 <Forked> yorick kick #51256125,2 19:19:11 <petern> what happens to old save games currently? 19:19:14 <Forked> (yes, point two) 19:19:33 <Yexo> a random AI is started to replace the original ai 19:19:37 <TrueBrain> a new AI is attached to the AI company, and if it can handle what it has, it will, else .. well .. nothing really :) 19:20:05 <OwenS> TrueBrain: So, if Wright AI was chosen, would it crash, or would it just ignore what was there and build airports? :p 19:20:15 <petern> hmm 19:20:17 <petern> okay 19:20:18 <Yexo> wrightai will ignore the stuff there already is 19:20:24 <petern> i can't load a 0.6.3 save 19:20:29 <TrueBrain> OwenS: WrightAI is an example AI; it ignores EVERYTHING and always starts like it was its first day on the job 19:20:39 <OwenS> heh 19:20:49 <worldemar> and builds only airports? 19:20:51 <OwenS> I just selected WAI because it's all thats included ATM 19:20:52 <TrueBrain> petern: trace it why not :) 19:22:07 <petern> i am 19:22:10 <petern> invalid chunk size, so far 19:22:18 <petern> just setting breakpoints 19:22:25 <TrueBrain> which chunk? 19:23:13 <petern> nextofs 668252 19:23:18 <petern> PLYR, obviously :p 19:23:52 <petern> SlGetOffs() 19:23:52 <petern> 668012 19:23:56 <petern> pomtepom 19:24:04 <TrueBrain> so either Rubidium did something bad, or something is funny :) 19:26:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15037 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: remove unused file src/table/ai_rail.h 19:27:35 <TrueBrain> petern: company_base.h 19:27:36 <TrueBrain> - Company(uint16 name_1 = 0, bool is_ai = false); 19:27:36 <TrueBrain> + Company(uint16 name_1 = 0, bool is_ai = false, bool is_noai = false); 19:27:38 <TrueBrain> does that help at all? 19:27:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:28:16 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:28:19 <yorick> ... 19:28:50 <TrueBrain> euh 19:28:51 <TrueBrain> that is very wrong 19:28:52 <TrueBrain> lol 19:29:28 <TrueBrain> petern: company_cmd.cpp 19:29:28 <TrueBrain> - this->is_noai = true; 19:29:28 <TrueBrain> + this->is_noai = false; 19:30:33 <petern> that does it 19:30:34 <petern> hmm 19:30:52 <petern> the companies all get renamed to WrightAI 19:30:56 <petern> (with a #n) 19:31:00 <petern> that is quite silly 19:31:06 <TrueBrain> part of WrightAI, yes 19:31:12 <TrueBrain> write a better AI ;) 19:31:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15038 /trunk/src/ (company_base.h company_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r15027): loading older savegames failed 19:31:28 <petern> 0.6.3 is not exactly old an uncommon 19:31:50 <TrueBrain> I guess we should retrigger the nightly, as this bug is kind of nasty ;) 19:31:58 <petern> no 19:32:07 <petern> it's only a nightly 19:32:15 <TrueBrain> even a savegame from yesterday would fail to load ;) 19:32:23 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: it's better to assign values in the constructor initializer list (or how is it called ;) 19:32:33 <petern> you should put a warning up 19:32:39 <petern> anyone who plays with AI should not bother 19:32:43 <petern> becuase currently it's not playable 19:33:10 <TrueBrain> petern: it really is easier to just retrigger a nightly in that case ;) 19:33:14 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: I agree :) 19:33:56 <petern> why? it won't help people who play with AIs 19:34:19 <Zuu> Since there are people out there that reads the commit log, maybe include such a warning in a commit that is somewhat related to the warning :) 19:34:24 <TrueBrain> without, you mean? 19:36:52 <petern> no with 19:37:15 <mikegrb> 0................................. 19:37:16 <TrueBrain> then I don't follow you 19:37:22 <mikegrb> 0 19:37:27 <TrueBrain> oh, I think I get it 19:37:29 <mikegrb> 0000000 19:37:30 <mikegrb> 00 19:37:33 <mikegrb> 00 19:37:35 <TrueBrain> just download AdmiralAI, and I think you will have fun 19:37:40 <TrueBrain> @kick mikegrb goodbyte 19:37:40 *** mikegrb was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [goodbyte] 19:37:46 <Yexo> wait a bit with that, current version won't work 19:38:01 <petern> we need a working general purpose AI in trunk ASAP 19:38:11 <TrueBrain> petern: feel free 19:38:29 <Yexo> petern: writing a new one is a *huge* task 19:38:41 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:38:42 <petern> it was easy enough to remove one :p 19:38:43 <mikegrb> sorry :/ 19:38:54 <SpComb> DorpsGek is pretty trigger-happy today 19:38:55 <mikegrb> elbow on the other keryboad 19:39:12 <TrueBrain> SpComb: you considered those 0's useful? 19:39:33 <SpComb> the kick, rejoin and apology was almost as much noise 19:39:50 <TrueBrain> mikegrb: weird place for your elbow :p 19:40:05 <TrueBrain> (hitting the 0 and enter :p) 19:40:22 <SpComb> numapd 19:41:47 <TrueBrain> even there ;) 19:42:51 <Zuu> Still there is a dot key in-between zero and enter on most keyboards. 19:43:23 <TrueBrain> my point exactly :) 19:43:35 <yorick> he did the dot once 19:43:45 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 19:44:50 <mikegrb> <3 19:45:09 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:38 <Steve-N> the noise after the kick rejoin and apology was even more noise 19:48:34 <OwenS> And the commenting about the noise after the kick rejoin and apology was just even more 19:48:35 <yorick> the noise of saying that again is even more noise 19:48:48 <TrueBrain> I am starting to feel trigger happy again 19:48:59 * OwenS cowers 19:49:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15039 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: fix comments regarding old AI, remove one old AI hack 19:50:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.170.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:50:29 <Steve-N> so anyone interested in testing my aggressive conductors patch (FS#2530) ? 19:51:58 <SmatZ> Steve-N: it is similiar to not using Full-Load orders, isn't it? 19:52:20 <Steve-N> it only does something when not using full-load 19:52:51 <Steve-N> vehicles will stop loading and loading and loading tiny little pieces of cargo when not using full-load with this option 19:52:54 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37E4EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:53:20 <OwenS> How hard would it be to recreate the original AS (Artificial Stupidity) with NoAI? :p 19:53:37 <Rubidium> infinitively hard 19:53:44 <TrueBrain> impossible 19:53:49 <TrueBrain> as said a few days ago 19:53:51 <TrueBrain> NoAI can't cheat 19:53:53 <SmatZ> Steve-N: does it have a significant effect on gameplay? 19:54:37 <SpComb> opponent_vehicle->InduceRandomBreakdown(); 19:54:51 <Steve-N> depends on how you play the game :) when using non-full-load orders and multiple trains serving a single platform (or platforms in different directions with cargodest), trains actually will leave the station without waiting for full load 19:55:56 <TrueBrain> for those who care: http://www.openttd.org/en/stats 19:56:39 <SmatZ> releases 1338 19:56:46 <SmatZ> not bad :) 19:57:13 <petern> OwenS: and the savegame data it uses is lost 19:57:16 <frosch123> ohoh, now they will keep downloading old realeases to create some asciiart with the numbers or similiar oO 19:57:27 <Belugas> Steve-N, I do not like the "agressive" part name of your patch. does not really reflect the feature... 19:57:34 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:40 <SmatZ> hehe @ frosch123 19:57:43 *** yorick is now known as Guest150 19:58:02 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: weeeheee stats! :) 19:58:19 * OwenS wonders to himself why towns eat so much CPU 19:58:39 <SmatZ> OwenS: gprof? 19:59:21 <Steve-N> hm yeah i came up with the name after someone made a remark about the conductors being very friendly (though another word was used, can't remeber it and my irc client didn't log this afternoon;) 19:59:26 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:59:45 <SmatZ> :) 19:59:59 <frosch123> Steve-N: it would also be better if it were a loading option in the orders gui, instead of a global setting for all companies 20:00:26 <SmatZ> :-) 20:00:35 <SmatZ> and then set is as default... 20:00:38 <Steve-N> hmm, yes that might be nice 20:00:41 <SmatZ> it can be stored in the Player struct though 20:00:48 <OwenS> I was about to go "We have enough memory for that?", before realising "this ins't the map array..." 20:00:58 <Steve-N> as no-one seemed to agree with me that it's a bug, i made it configurable and disabled by default 20:00:59 <SmatZ> so it is set per-Company 20:01:38 <frosch123> well, it has been long since the last "load xx%" patch showed up 20:01:54 <Tim> W00t? NoAI in trunk? 20:02:09 *** Guest150 [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:02:09 <frosch123> though with cargodest, that would be silly I guess 20:02:41 <Steve-N> especially with cargodest, default loading really screws up time-tabling 20:03:15 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated] 20:03:25 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 20:03:27 <Aali> a better solution to that may be a timetabling option "always leave on time" 20:03:51 <Aali> which ignores full load or whatever and just leaves the station when the time is up 20:04:37 <Yexo> working version of AdmiralAI can be found here: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=104238 20:04:38 <Steve-N> i think that would be a nice additional option (or order). i don't want my trains to leave before all waiting passengers have boarded 20:05:02 <Steve-N> (meaning all passengers that were already waiting before the train arrived at the station) 20:05:15 <mrfrenzy> a train *can't* leave until all waiting passengers have entered 20:05:28 <mrfrenzy> as it will be impossible to close the door until they have stepped clear 20:05:30 <Steve-N> it could when forced to keep it's timetable 20:05:46 <mrfrenzy> (going for realism here) 20:05:53 <Steve-N> go to tokyo, take the subway, and be amazed 20:06:13 <mrfrenzy> well I've only used public transport in .se, .de and .no 20:06:19 <Steve-N> (trying more realism here also) 20:06:23 <Swallow> I agree with Aali here that it might be better to make it a timetabling option. 20:06:32 <planetmaker> Steve-N: but there you have a "shoving person" at each door ;) 20:06:44 <OwenS> I disagree with Aali as I don't use timetables :p 20:07:00 <Steve-N> well here (.nl) the conductor usually does give people a chance to get on the train. but when you're just running off the escalator when he blows his whistle, the train won't wait 20:07:11 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485C548.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:07:23 <Aali> the great thing about such a solution is that you can set up a timetable that only specifies loading times 20:07:31 <Rubidium> Steve-N: in Tokyo they wait till the train/metro is full 20:07:43 <Rubidium> or when there are no people coming anymore 20:07:47 <Aali> so even if you dont play with timetables normally, you can still use it 20:08:24 <Steve-N> so when the train isn't full, it will just keep waiting for all slow people coming in the station? 20:08:54 *** vraa [~vraa@h25.81.141.67.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:05 <Rubidium> Steve-N: effectively yes 20:09:16 <Belugas> [15:07] <Steve-N> (trying more realism here also) <-- freaks 20:09:27 <Steve-N> even when the next train is waiting behind it already? 20:09:33 <mrfrenzy> Steve-N: ofcourse, but if there are people currently going into the train, less than 1m from the doors, they will not close if the train is not full 20:09:36 <Steve-N> yeah i'm a realism freak, sorry 20:09:44 <Rubidium> though people run to the train when it comes and when they can't make it they are far from the train when it leaves 20:09:54 <Belugas> play sims then... not openttd 20:10:06 <Steve-N> oh, wow. here (.nl) trains will just leave, you just should have run faster 20:10:23 *** dyzdyz [~dyzdyz@193.189.116.2] has joined #openttd 20:10:30 <dyzdyz> hi all 20:10:42 <TrueBrain> depends on how nice you are 20:10:56 <petern> hmm 20:10:59 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F1AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:03 <TrueBrain> hi dyzdyz 20:11:04 <Belugas> hello dyzdyz 20:11:05 <petern> now vs won't run it :( 20:11:07 <Steve-N> actually i used to play (a hugely modified verison of) simcity a lot, until my linux server crashed and i trashed my windows workstation to build a new linux server. and then started playing openttd ;) 20:11:16 <TrueBrain> petern: you broke it! 20:11:25 <petern> what've i done wrong? i just get a black console window pop up and then disappear... 20:11:28 <Belugas> well... a little rule, it 's not aimed at realism ;) 20:11:49 <Steve-N> that's why i made it an option, so you can choose!;) 20:12:10 <Steve-N> but even when you don't want realism, it generates more income for your company!:) 20:12:23 <Zuu> Aali: Exactly how I use timetables today, setting a minimum wait time at stations. 20:12:35 <Belugas> strange... i'd be more inclined to have a feature that cost more... 20:12:39 <dyzdyz> i've got a little question 20:12:52 <Aali> yes, but you cant set a maximum wait time.. which sucks sometimes 20:13:00 <TrueBrain> dyzdyz: make sure it is little ;) 20:13:01 <Belugas> i've got a little black book with my poems in... 20:13:04 <Steve-N> (actually i really don't care about company income, as it's a lot more than i can spend after say a month) 20:13:06 <dyzdyz> i've got a scenario with 2048^2 map of europe 20:13:28 <dyzdyz> but i don't know how to use generictrams with it 20:13:36 <dyzdyz> i can use some other grf's 20:13:53 <dyzdyz> what can be a problem here? 20:13:59 <petern> where's the entry point for win32? 20:14:34 <Belugas> dyzdyz, on which version do you play your scenario? P.S.: latest is not am option 20:15:05 <petern> oh, that'll do it 20:15:09 <petern> start up project was set at strgen :p 20:15:10 <dyzdyz> i use h3b244a8f Cargodest 20:15:25 <dyzdyz> and Generictrams works fine with generated map 20:16:03 *** Wolle [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0F753.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:16:06 *** retsub[moc] [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:13 <Zuu> Aali: Why I don't like to use hg more than necessary is that the versions are not sequential. 20:16:17 *** retsub[moc] [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:16:23 <Aali> Zuu: but they are 20:16:38 <Zuu> Not in a readable form what i can tell. 20:16:42 <dyzdyz> ok, just found solution for myself 20:16:47 <Steve-N> dyzdyz: would that be CarstsEuropeScenario? 20:16:48 <Steve-N> ehm, ok 20:16:53 <dyzdyz> sorry for interrupting your conversation 20:16:55 <Belugas> when yuo've started your map, was there already a generic tram set specified in your grf seting? If not, i think you're screwed to re-strt tye scenario 20:16:56 <Steve-N> (no problem with those trams and that map here anyway) 20:17:11 <Aali> Zuu: the little number before the hash in hg log is also a valid identifier ;) 20:17:33 <dyzdyz> Belugas: i seems to conflict with longvehicles 20:22:04 * Belugas is not an expert at mixing grfs 20:23:21 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 20:24:36 <Steve-N> dyzdyz: it does? i don't get any warnings or errors when adding long vehicles to a game where generic trams (0.4) are already used 20:27:42 <Steve-N> what generic trams version are you using, dyzdyz? (as i'm using (a modified version) of h3b244a8f too, with generic trams 0.4, without any problems. even tried it on windows..) 20:28:36 <dyzdyz> Steve-N: generictrams 0.4 20:29:05 <dyzdyz> Steve-N: when i disable longvehicles then generictrams works fine 20:29:10 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:18 <Steve-N> hm, strange, same here.. and where did you get those long vehicles? 20:29:29 <dyzdyz> Steve-N: and i don't get any warnings 20:29:48 <dyzdyz> Steve-N: GRFCrawler i suppose 20:30:12 *** Moodles [Tallarines@60-242-71-35.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:30:15 <Steve-N> oh, ok, than we seem to have the same result (but i'm not running any of the vehicles from those long vehicles) 20:30:53 <dyzdyz> Steve-N: what modification have you done to h3b244a8f? 20:31:34 <Steve-N> FS#2530 :) 20:31:42 <dyzdyz> ? 20:31:47 *** sigmund_ is now known as sigmund 20:32:00 <Steve-N> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2530 20:32:44 <Steve-N> but that shouldn't make any difference for grf's 20:33:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:33:32 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 20:34:05 <dyzdyz> sure 20:34:10 <dyzdyz> just curious 20:34:26 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@resnet566.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:08 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has joined #openttd 20:40:09 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 20:40:26 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:44:40 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: are the changes to projects/openttd_vs80.sln in r15027 wanted? 20:45:19 <petern> they may well be fixed later 20:45:32 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: why wouldn't they? 20:45:55 <petern> (if they're broken) 20:45:59 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: ah, I see what you mean 20:46:02 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: ask glx ;) 20:47:08 <petern> ah 20:47:10 <petern> i see 20:47:20 <petern> it gets changed to that automatically for me 20:49:21 <glx> michi_cc: dunno 20:49:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-156-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:51:29 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:54:29 <michi_cc> glx: it disables x64-builds for vs2005, I'd say that wasn't meant that way 20:55:46 <Belugas> ?? 20:55:53 <Belugas> what where when how? 20:56:19 *** retsub[moc] [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:19 *** [com]buster is now known as retsub[moc] 20:56:25 <SmatZ> someone please fix that sln file, so we have r15040, and I can run another benchmark ;) 20:56:27 *** retsub[moc] is now known as [com]buster 20:57:12 *** nicfer [~nicfer@ulmo.lysator.liu.se] has joined #openttd 20:58:32 <Belugas> @seen someone 20:58:32 <DorpsGek> Belugas: someone was last seen in #openttd 50 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 6 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay 20:58:51 <SmatZ> :-D 20:59:07 <SmatZ> doublejoke! 20:59:27 <SpComb> mm, 50 weeks old, it's a finely aged joke 20:59:41 <SpComb> vintage 21:00:14 <Belugas> like old wine and men, getting better while aging :) 21:00:17 <Belugas> like me!! 21:00:24 <SmatZ> :) 21:00:53 <Steve-N> lol 21:01:13 <SmatZ> :-P 21:01:13 <nicfer> What happened to the custom bridgeheads patch? 21:02:01 <Belugas> waht are the possible answers? 21:02:23 <frosch123> everyone abandoned it 21:02:29 <glx> michi_cc: it's TrueBrain's fault I think 21:02:49 <glx> I can't find any similar changes in noai nor trunk before the merge 21:03:57 <glx> ha no it's me in r12826 21:04:20 <Zuu> @commit r12826 21:04:20 <DorpsGek> Zuu: Invalid arguments for _commit. 21:04:33 <glx> it's a sync 21:04:39 <glx> @commit 12826 21:04:40 <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by glx :: r12826 /branches/noai (80 files in 5 dirs) (2008-04-21 21:15:50 UTC) 21:04:41 <DorpsGek> glx: [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12780:12824 21:04:47 <Belugas> @seen commit 12826 21:04:47 <DorpsGek> Belugas: seen [<channel>] <nick> 21:04:55 <SmatZ> :-P 21:04:56 <Belugas> buwahahahah! 21:05:21 <Steve-N> so belugas, what about these reality freaks 21:05:31 <Belugas> they suck big time 21:05:35 <Steve-N> 'For once, TTD almost looked real,' is what google comes up with ;) 21:05:44 <Belugas> come on... 21:06:17 <Belugas> look at the proprotions of the vehicles/houses/else 21:06:20 <Belugas> they are all off 21:06:20 <nicfer> Do the devs like that patch or is it like tracks over tunnel entrances? 21:06:25 <glx> michi_cc: feel free to revert this change (you're the one with an x64 ;) ) 21:07:06 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 21:07:26 <Steve-N> oh proportions, i've been looking at those... why are the catchment areas this unrealistically small? 21:07:58 <Zuu> Steve-N: Gameplay 21:08:06 <frosch123> Steve-N: use distant-join to make them unrealistically huge 21:08:18 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 21:08:19 <Belugas> because it's a gaaaaaameeeeuh 21:08:52 <Steve-N> distant-join so you can build several stations which are one for the game? 21:09:07 <Steve-N> game doesn't mean it can't be at least trying to be a little bit realistic 21:09:11 <Belugas> http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/texts/realism_in_OpenTTD.txt 21:09:37 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has quit [Quit: http://www.chogie.eu] 21:09:39 <Belugas> and how would you feel if we'd make it so that the bridges would take REALISTIC time to be constructed? like... 2-3 years? 21:09:50 <Steve-N> so in like 1980 when ttd was build, maps couldn't be large so large catchment areas wouldn't make sense. but now we can have huge maps, right? 21:09:52 <nicfer> If you want a realistic game buy Crysis ;) 21:10:21 <SpComb> not very realistic what with the keyboard and mouse 21:10:29 <SpComb> and you don't even die if you get shot in-game 21:10:38 <Zuu> Steve-N: Would you really want a game with all scales 1:1? 21:10:51 <Steve-N> Zuu: yes i do :-) 21:11:38 <nicfer> Heh, not even Second Life is 100% realistic 21:11:57 <Zuu> Steve-N: Then lets apply for an education in transportation and become a transportation planer :) 21:12:08 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r15040 /trunk/projects/openttd_vs80.sln: -Fix (r15027): Don't disable support for Win64 in the VS2005 project file. 21:12:11 <TrueBrain> glx: how could you even consider blaming me :) I never ever touched such files :) 21:12:20 <Steve-N> 100% realistic wouldn't be possible without it actually being real, but a tiny little bit closer than we are now would be nice... 21:12:22 <Belugas> Steve-N, well... 1:1 scale means TTD will loose it's curent touch 21:12:29 <Belugas> and it will become BOOOOORINY 21:12:33 <Zuu> Steve-N: That is what I am doing ATM actually 21:12:33 <Belugas> -y+g 21:13:30 <Steve-N> ATM? automated teller machine? 21:13:38 <Zuu> Steve-N: At the moment 21:13:44 <Belugas> Steve-N, no, making it closer to reality will just make it loose its essence. There is no reason nor need to make it more real. It's lready popular. it will not gain more popularity with more realism. Look at Locomotion. It's closer to reality. It did not gain as much followers as Opent 21:14:07 <Belugas> nor patch nor original TTD 21:15:30 <Steve-N> Belugas: it is? so i should get a windows machine and try locomotion? damn... 21:16:04 <Belugas> yeah, and leave us alone with the R word 21:16:26 <nicfer> We should focus on making city growth harder in temperate 21:16:44 <Belugas> i dont mind adding stuff that enhance game play, but adding stuff just to make it closer to R is ... <VOMIT NOISE> 21:17:10 <Steve-N> making it closer to realism might even enhance gameplay 21:17:20 <Zuu> nicfer: I have never understood why people so much favor temperate over the other climates. 21:17:37 <petern> no 21:17:37 <Steve-N> Zuu: maybe because most of them are used to living in there 21:17:39 <petern> locomotion's shit 21:18:32 <Steve-N> so about this realism thing... i guess cargodest won't have any chance of ever getting into trunk then? 21:18:55 <Aali> cargodest is not a realism thing 21:19:21 <Zuu> Steve-N: There is a difference between argumenting for something only because it adds realism, or if realism is a bi-product of a gameplay enhancement. 21:19:21 <Steve-N> to me it's a lot more realistic when passengers actually want to go somewhere, instead of paying me for dropping them off anywhere 21:19:25 *** vraa [~vraa@h25.81.141.67.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:19:54 <Alberth> Steve-N: the keyword is that it must be FUN to play 21:20:04 <Zuu> Steve-N: Still in cargodest where they want to go is highly dependent on what options you provide. 21:20:04 <SpComb> like Empire Earth 21:20:10 <Aali> it IS more realistic, but it would never have been created if there wasn't any gameplay value 21:20:46 * Belugas nods 21:21:14 <Belugas> by-product of a gameplay enhancement 21:21:27 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 21:21:30 <Belugas> newindustry/newcargo : same thing 21:21:36 <Steve-N> sure. i never said realism is the only goal. but in a lot of cases, realism will add to more gameplay value 21:21:45 <Belugas> no 21:21:50 <Belugas> it's the other way around 21:21:56 <Belugas> errr... 21:22:00 <Belugas> not at all 21:22:16 <Aali> and yet "everyone" on the forums is crying for more realism in cargodest :/ 21:22:39 <Steve-N> :) because realism is fun gameplay! 21:22:48 <Belugas> you're a sicko 21:23:04 <Steve-N> before cargodest, i didn't really care about openttd. was way too easy. now with cargodest, it's becoming interesting 21:23:14 <Alberth> Aali: because the current settings is too difficult, and users have no control over it 21:23:50 <Alberth> Steve-N: 'interesting', not 'realistic' 21:24:02 <Zuu> Steve-N: The reason you care for OpenTTD with cargodest is that it has become more difficult and have added gameplay value. This is not strictly connected to realism. 21:24:22 <Steve-N> that's right 21:24:28 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 21:24:37 <Aali> cargodest makes OTTD more difficult? 21:24:52 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has joined #openttd 21:24:56 <glx> <TrueBrain> glx: how could you even consider blaming me :) I never ever touched such files :) <-- but you are the one in the log and in svn blame ;) 21:25:08 <Aali> that depends on your playstyle 21:25:15 *** tom0004 [~Tom@92.0.50.127] has quit [] 21:25:23 <TrueBrain> glx: ..... DOH! :p 21:25:37 <Steve-N> so anyway, about this other great patch, which might seem realistic, but just isn't. have you ever had a conductor slam the door on you? so try it!;) http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2530 21:26:48 <mrfrenzy> haha 21:27:03 <Belugas> spammer 21:27:29 <mrfrenzy> will this not decrease profit? 21:27:51 <Steve-N> if you're expecting your vehicles to wait until full, without full-load order, it might 21:28:49 <Steve-N> in my case, it hugely increases profit, as there won't be any trains queueing up and cargo (passengers) actually are being moved 21:32:17 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:35 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:35:35 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 21:36:33 <worldemar> if i transfer some cargo from A to B, and then from B to C, where cargo is accepted, then total income from moving A -> C is equal to direct transfer from A to C? (assume transfer times are equal) 21:37:21 <Aali> in theory, yes 21:37:47 <nicfer> Maybe if temperate towns require food or goods it will be more challenging 21:37:56 <worldemar> okay, and when cargo moves from A to B... transport gives income or not? 21:38:14 <Yexo> you don't get any money at that point 21:38:48 <worldemar> so, if B is very close to C, then little line from B to C will give me all the money, including A-B transfer? 21:38:57 <mrfrenzy> you can however use a transfer order for a-b 21:39:06 <mrfrenzy> and the a-b train will get "virtual money" 21:39:22 <mrfrenzy> which will then be deducted from the huge profit b-c train otherwise would have made 21:39:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15041 /trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r15038): use the ctor auto thing how it is meant to be used (tnx to SmatZ for pointing that out) 21:40:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15042 /trunk/src/ai/ai_info.cpp: -Fix (r15027): don't leak memory in AIInfo (Yexo) 21:40:13 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:49 <worldemar> if transfer order 1) is set: i can take money even if cargo dosen't reach destination 2) is not set: all money will income only on arrive to destination 21:41:18 <worldemar> maybe there is wiki page for it? sorry for flooding here) 21:41:31 <Rubidium> there certainly is 21:41:46 <Zuu> worldemar: Watch your economy window to see when you earn the money. 21:42:14 <Yexo> worldemar: http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Orders#Transfer 21:42:19 <worldemar> i am making huge network of train lines. there are some routes i can do only by ransfer through several stations... 21:42:19 *** nicfer [~nicfer@ulmo.lysator.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:20 <Zuu> Yellow money (transfer) is not earned for the company until the passenger/goods reach their final destination. 21:42:24 <worldemar> o, thanks a lot! 21:45:09 <worldemar> had read that. 21:48:42 <Belugas> mmh 21:49:10 <worldemar> Zuu: so, "transfer" is to share profit between two trains without making one of them "negative-profit" 21:49:25 <worldemar> is that right? 21:49:28 <Yexo> that is right 21:50:12 <Yexo> there is another difference: without using transfer, if the 'middle' station accepts the cargo it'll vanish, but with the transfer option the cargo will always stay at the station 21:50:45 <worldemar> mmm, that's cool 21:53:28 <worldemar> "feeder service" wiki-page was really helpful, thanks! 21:55:48 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:56:06 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5ad9f9f7.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:57:17 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-14-72-109.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:58:42 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba4403.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 21:59:24 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejp122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 22:01:32 * Belugas runs home, hoping his repo over there is not going to be too messy 22:01:34 *** gynter [~gynter@78-28-82-100.cdma.dyn.kou.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:03:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad84b6d.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:03:09 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 22:04:32 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CC16.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:06:28 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba4403.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:04 *** vraa [~vraa@h78.76.29.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 22:13:46 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 22:15:28 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:32 * worldemar remembers about work tomorrow and saves his transport company 22:19:17 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Stern erhalten!] 22:24:34 <Wolf01> 'night 22:24:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host75-15-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:26:57 <worldemar> bye 22:27:17 *** worldemar [~world@62.106.106.162] has quit [Quit: An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure.] 22:27:25 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37E4EA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:25 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:38 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:37:52 *** mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Checking whether build environment is sane ... build environment is grinning and holding a spatula. 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