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00:00:57 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177234110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 00:01:01 <OwenS> It takes a goods train 126 days per direction :p 00:01:07 <Rubidium> ~25% of that bandwidth if bananas (over 190 days) 00:01:34 <Rubidium> which includes a long time where bananas didn't exist yet 00:02:17 <OwenS> @calc 365/(2*126) 00:02:17 <DorpsGek> OwenS: 1.44841269841 00:02:28 <OwenS> So one of said goods trains does one and a half deliveries a year 00:02:43 <OwenS> Hmm... Whats that thing people call realism? :P 00:03:19 <Rubidium> unreal 00:04:00 <OwenS> I think the realism stopped... about the time we got stations bigger than the towns they service 00:04:20 <Rubidium> I think realism never started 00:04:51 <keoz> realism is like a limit in a function, to which we should tend, even if we know it is unreachable 00:05:11 <Rubidium> and I'm not going to react for a while as I'm going to bed; I wonder if Belugas likes that kind of realism 00:05:36 <OwenS> TTD on a more realistic scale would be interesting though 00:08:00 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DD8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Raubgut ist vom Umtausch ausgeschlossen!] 00:08:36 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177226113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:53 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28:47 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:37 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:57 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@94.76.226.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:22 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:55 *** Priski [Prsk@cable-105-162.kymp.net] has joined #openttd 00:58:58 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177236049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 01:06:20 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:36 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177234110.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:42 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 01:11:26 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-144-20-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:56 *** KingJ is now known as kingj 01:16:16 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.159.73.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]] 01:18:44 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177236049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'm going to kill those people at seagate who sent me this hard drive... 01:27:59 *** tdev [~udev@p508EB811.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 01:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and (unrelated) how can one screw up his kernel installation so it says "unknown file system: ext3"? 01:36:21 <Sacro> `hahahah 01:36:30 <Sacro> mkinitcpio borked? 01:36:33 <Sacro> missing modules? 01:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the modules were missing 01:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but try to get the kernel installed again when you cannot mount /boot, and don't have the exact .rpm that was installed there :p 01:46:10 <Sacro> but fucked there then 01:46:12 <Sacro> *bit 01:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i managed to install the .rpm that i had, and then got grub to boot from the / partition 01:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> which wasn't that easy either 01:50:21 *** ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 01:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and then roleback of all the other changes that i tried to solve the problem with 01:51:08 *** kodmaster [~yeah@adsl-216-246-240-230.ext.distributel.net] has joined #openttd 01:51:14 <kodmaster> !help 01:51:14 *** kodmaster was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 01:51:43 <Priski> hehe 01:51:56 <Priski> those are too common here? 01:52:12 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:52:34 <Sacro> not that commmon 01:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> especially !password started to get annoying 01:56:05 <Sacro> Yeah that one did 01:58:11 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 02:05:37 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:13:10 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:12 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 02:19:09 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f88b:b5f9:f853:6f3d] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:26:42 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:39:23 *** [1]GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 02:43:24 *** GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:24 *** [1]GregVernon is now known as GregVernon 03:08:16 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:59 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:13:51 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 03:22:22 *** ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:19 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:16 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:47 *** nicfer [~Usuario@168.226.105.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:04 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:51:35 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 03:59:15 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-147-189-211.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:56 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 05:23:41 *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51eb:a42d::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:23 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F842.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 05:41:19 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:14 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 06:48:56 *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.211.60] has joined #openttd 07:05:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:16:32 *** GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:39:59 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177236049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 07:45:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.215.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:15 *** reldred1 [~reldred@115.131.209.2] has joined #openttd 07:48:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.215.251] has joined #openttd 07:54:27 *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.211.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:36:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@2002:51e8:81d7::1] has joined #openttd 09:00:03 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:03:11 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDD2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:26:09 <TrueBrain> morning all 09:27:46 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514ff360.l4.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:28:13 <Rubidium> hai 09:29:36 <TrueBrain> we had this class and exam for which ALL people failed 09:29:49 <TrueBrain> now the professor tries to correct that problem, by giving more material 09:29:51 <TrueBrain> even more unreadable 09:30:03 <TrueBrain> when will this person understand that what he tells us, is not understandable ? 09:30:33 <Rubidium> I think that's something he does not understand 09:31:39 <TrueBrain> he promised the head of the dep that he would do more his best in giving more detail .. he just gave the answers to the last test .. yeah .. that might work .. NOT 09:32:01 <Rubidium> if the next exam uses the exact same test, then it might 09:32:14 <TrueBrain> even then, I am unsure I will have everything correct :p 09:56:44 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 09:59:32 *** PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has joined #openttd 10:00:31 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@146.089.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:26 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:25:27 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B80982.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:27:42 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B80AE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:27:54 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 10:37:49 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 10:42:57 <planetmaker> moin moin 10:45:00 <TrueBrain> it is a planetmaker! 10:45:04 <TrueBrain> I wonder if tdev had any time today 10:45:24 <tdev> hey TrueBrain :D 10:45:29 <tdev> im all yours ;) 10:45:39 <TrueBrain> http://www.noaddedsugar.net/ 10:53:24 <planetmaker> haha :-) selling oneself to slave labour ;-) 10:54:15 <TrueBrain> ghehe :) 10:56:19 <Noldo> Would it be possible that someone would use some other language as the main language 10:56:34 <TrueBrain> lol 10:56:43 <TrueBrain> that is the strangest question ever, I believe :) 10:56:47 <TrueBrain> what do you mean exactly Noldo? :) 10:57:02 <Noldo> in the WebTranslator I mean 10:57:10 <Noldo> "Automatic mark strings as 'suspicious' when English changes" 10:57:22 <TrueBrain> Noldo: still I don't get it ;) 10:57:31 <Noldo> that was the line that triggered the question 10:57:45 <TrueBrain> oh, s/English/main language/ 10:57:56 <Noldo> yes 10:58:12 <TrueBrain> base language, in fact 10:58:31 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.158.129] has joined #openttd 10:58:53 <Noldo> so is it possible to use something other that english? 10:59:14 <planetmaker> Noldo, you can - as project leader - define your "main language" 10:59:36 <planetmaker> All translations though, orient themselves on that language. And markings only depend upon changes in the "main language" 10:59:47 <planetmaker> (if I understood it right :-) ) 11:03:16 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you did 11:03:30 <TrueBrain> nowhere in the code is ever defined which language is the base language 11:03:47 <planetmaker> it's just a filename, I guess :-) 11:03:58 <TrueBrain> depends :) 11:04:04 <TrueBrain> gettext has the base language in every file 11:04:07 <planetmaker> he :-) 11:04:11 <TrueBrain> where OpenTTD has it in a single file once 11:04:14 <TrueBrain> (and uses keys) 11:04:33 <TrueBrain> NewGRF has another way 11:04:39 <TrueBrain> so it is not that simple ;) 11:05:16 <planetmaker> You plan to translate NewGRF with wt3? 11:05:26 <TrueBrain> well, plan is a big word 11:05:29 <TrueBrain> but it will be capable 11:05:39 <TrueBrain> (if someone would write the in/out related to it) 11:06:11 <planetmaker> Hm... would be interesting. 11:06:24 <TrueBrain> what I read on it, it just works like: name.grf and name_trans.grf 11:06:25 <planetmaker> My current newgrf projects have a separate file for each language 11:06:29 <TrueBrain> where the latter can do all the translations for the first 11:06:35 <planetmaker> but not each string needs translation. 11:06:41 <planetmaker> Having a web interface for that would rock 11:07:18 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I see no reason why WT3.1 wouldn't be able to support it 11:07:33 <planetmaker> hm... that's definitely then something to try. 11:07:40 <planetmaker> WT3.1 service at the devzone :-) 11:07:55 <TrueBrain> someone only has to explain to me in details what needs to be done :) 11:07:56 <planetmaker> Another incentive to host repositories there :-P 11:08:08 <TrueBrain> but as this plugin system allows that later, it will be done later ;) 11:08:11 <planetmaker> That I can do, I think. 11:08:28 <planetmaker> Reasonable nfo structure given, the string handling in nfo isn't difficult at all. 11:09:20 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/browse/sprites/nfo/lang <-- like that it's already quite easy 11:09:41 <TrueBrain> does NewGRF have all languages OpenTTD has? 11:10:02 <planetmaker> hm... I guess not all. 11:10:04 <planetmaker> But most 11:10:18 <TrueBrain> well, that is something that should be fixed 11:10:28 <TrueBrain> and some kind of standard should be created for this 11:10:32 <planetmaker> easily done. Pro'ly just needs defining in the specs. 11:10:36 <planetmaker> e.g. updating the wiki 11:10:49 <TrueBrain> like in the link you just gave, are comments 11:10:53 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action4 11:11:00 <TrueBrain> either those need to made some kind of standard 11:11:05 <TrueBrain> or it should work directly on .grf files 11:11:28 <TrueBrain> list seems up-to-date :) 11:11:31 <planetmaker> yes. The link I gave is not pure NFO. It's processed by a makefile into nfo 11:11:47 <planetmaker> e.g. replacing the stringIDs etc 11:11:47 <TrueBrain> but okay, lets do that after I have a working system ;) 11:11:56 <planetmaker> he, indeed :-) 11:12:26 <TrueBrain> today I will be extending the script, api, and plugin system a bit 11:12:36 <TrueBrain> after which I should be able to start working on OpenTTD language files .. 11:13:02 <planetmaker> :-) 11:13:23 <TrueBrain> Noldo: if you have any other questions, please let me know :) 11:18:26 * Ammler still thinks, the langaug 11:18:29 <Ammler> m?h 11:18:46 <Ammler> just ignore me :-) 11:18:46 <planetmaker> muh 11:19:36 <Ammler> why is backspace that close to the enter key? 11:25:03 <TrueBrain> because you should just speak your mind 11:25:07 <TrueBrain> it wants you to know that :) 11:25:42 <Rubidium> planetmaker: name me one (official) OpenTTD language that isn't supported by NewGRF 11:27:57 <Ammler> 2nd try; /me thinks, the language files should be distributed seperately, possible with bananas, isn't? 11:28:18 <Rubidium> did write something down a while ago for Miham IIRC about NewGRF translations: http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/newgrf_translation.txt 11:29:20 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I guess I cannot. I just wasn't sure that all official OpenTTD languages have found already their way into the NewGRF specs 11:29:36 <planetmaker> That's why I phrased it more cautiously. :-) A look at that page told me different 11:30:10 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I tend to agree with you on that, as mostly it doesn't require permission of the original author 11:30:24 <Ammler> "We should use FF for the default English strings. That way that string is always used as "catch all" string. It needs to be the first string, otherwise it overrides all" <-- still valid? 11:30:31 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=114736 <- I like the laziness of the OpenGFX authors ;) 11:30:52 <Ammler> specially the "needs to be first" 11:31:11 <Ammler> because then pm needs to resort ;-) 11:31:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: OpenTTD has the GRF ID language ID for the language in the language files 11:32:03 <Ammler> TrueBrain: yes, specially CC-ND grfs 11:32:12 <planetmaker> Rubidium, right :-) I wasn't aware that it's 100% the same 11:32:21 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: do you agree on what Ammler says? 11:32:23 <Ammler> but also the openttd core translations. 11:33:08 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: if it's silence I have to agree on, then yes 11:33:15 <planetmaker> btw, I try with the translation possibilities for the NewGRFs which use "my" makefile the same: a file which defines the langID in the header and the the STRING_ID follows with a translation, one each line 11:33:21 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: fair enough: 11:33:23 <TrueBrain> [13:27] <Ammler> 2nd try; /me thinks, the language files should be distributed seperately, possible with bananas, isn't? 11:33:47 <Rubidium> what language files is he talking about? 11:33:55 <TrueBrain> newgrf .. like what we are talking about 11:34:16 <planetmaker> I wished there were means to not blow up the newgrf size by all translations, but make them external... 11:34:17 <TrueBrain> dunno where I read it yesterday, but as I said before: name.grf and name_trans.grf 11:34:20 <TrueBrain> the latter with translations 11:34:40 <planetmaker> hm... maybe there is means by add-on newgrf. But... can that then be used in a network game when the server hasn't that newgrf? 11:34:40 <Ammler> TrueBrain: you mean one grf for ALL translations? 11:34:51 <TrueBrain> Ammler: that is what the TTDp website suggests, yes 11:35:09 <Ammler> ah, I thought about name_de.grf 11:35:13 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: static newgrfs? (I don't know, I know almost nothing about grfs) 11:35:26 <Rubidium> I'd personally go for: "no", but that is 'only' because NewGRFs (e.g. name.grf) change over time adding/removing features (i.e. changing StringIDs), making the translation sound like gibberish 11:35:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: true; but if you split it, you don't need permission of the original author ;) 11:36:01 <Ammler> to make the tanslation universal, you should use the grf direclty as base. 11:36:21 <Ammler> decode->translate encode a new file 11:36:25 <planetmaker> Rubidium, that could be helped by querying the newgrf to be translated. 11:36:34 <planetmaker> and de-activation, if the version doesn't match 11:36:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: what part of the NewGRF do you intend to query? 11:37:21 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: true, but I think that totally wrong translations are a bigger problem than no translation 11:37:39 <planetmaker> Rubidium, good question. But it could e.g. query the name. Which can hold the version 11:37:45 <Rubidium> e.g. translating 'steel' to 'vee'/'vieh' 11:37:53 <planetmaker> it needs to be tailored. But it can be done, I guess. 11:37:54 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: so that is something that we need to protect :) 11:38:00 <planetmaker> I've never tried anything like that, though 11:38:05 <TrueBrain> md5 of the grf in the translation, or what ever :p 11:38:20 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, that'd be too strict IMO :-) But should work, too 11:38:26 <planetmaker> most easy, I guess 11:38:26 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:38 <TrueBrain> for OpenTTD language files we make a 'number' from all stuff too 11:38:39 <Ammler> well, we really would like a version info in the grfs anyway. 11:38:45 <TrueBrain> which is 'unique' for a given english.txt 11:38:56 <Rubidium> yup, a hash of the base file is the easiest way 11:39:12 <TrueBrain> as I think embeding the translation in the grf is not really the way to go 11:39:25 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Why not? 11:39:26 <planetmaker> ^ I agree. At least if it gets many 11:39:27 <Ammler> md5 hash doesn't show, which is the newer version. 11:39:32 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:36 <TrueBrain> blathijs: it bloats the grf unneeded 11:39:50 <planetmaker> Ammler, that doesn't matter too much, if the newgrf tells its name with action 08 11:39:52 <Rubidium> from a 'simple' user point of view adding the languages to the NewGRF is the best way 11:40:10 <blathijs> TrueBrain: You mean in actual file size? I'd expect translations to be minimal compared to the size of sprites? 11:40:15 <planetmaker> then it needs a GUI way to add static NewGRF 11:40:20 <TrueBrain> blathijs: no, I don't really care about filesize 11:40:25 <Rubidium> even so, what's the size of the translation vs the size of the rest of the file? 11:40:25 <TrueBrain> I mean, we have, what, 50 languages now? 11:40:29 <TrueBrain> translations will come in over time 11:40:33 <TrueBrain> you need to keep on updating your base grf 11:40:36 <TrueBrain> while nothing changes 11:40:41 <TrueBrain> most users will find that annoying and weird 11:40:50 <TrueBrain> (in my opinion ;)) 11:41:06 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: most users will find it annoying and weird if they have to 'search' for a translation file 11:41:10 <Ammler> or you wait with adding the translation until you have a "worthful" update. 11:41:12 <blathijs> That makes sense. Splitting them allows you to update the (small) translations without having to redownload the (big) grf itself 11:41:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is why it should be made simple ;) 11:41:24 <TrueBrain> blathijs: exactly 11:41:47 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: how simple can it be made? Because it'll be at least as complex as bananas 11:41:58 <Rubidium> which a major number of the users doesn't use 11:41:59 <TrueBrain> http://www.ttdpatch.net/tools.html#grftrans <- that suggested _trans btw 11:42:43 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the best option in my opinion would be something as simple as this: when a user loads a grf, known at BaNaNaS, and you have a language loaded, and we know the translation for that grf for that language, we suggest the user to download it 11:42:46 <TrueBrain> or something in that 11:42:54 <TrueBrain> but that makes it very BaNaNaS depending 11:43:28 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: we suggest people to download an AI, yet we get lots of people complaining they can't find an AI 11:43:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that is because I think the game should give a popup when it tries to start a game with an AI while there aren't any AIs 11:43:51 <TrueBrain> giving the Content Download screen 11:43:56 <TrueBrain> and pointing to where to download 11:44:00 <TrueBrain> (if that isn't done already :p) 11:44:09 <Rubidium> and it would mean that you need to send an awful lot of information about NewGRFs to the client 11:44:27 <TrueBrain> huh? Did you read the same text as I wrote? 11:44:39 <TrueBrain> client sends to Content Service -> grf + language 11:44:47 <TrueBrain> servers send back: I have translation for you 11:45:02 <TrueBrain> but okay .. that is just my simple look on this 11:45:38 <Ammler> well, just download the translation, if available 11:46:04 <TrueBrain> Ammler: there needs to be some chatter to acknowledge for what it needs a translation ;) 11:47:01 <Ammler> that is the big issue on current bananans you need to click too many times for just saying "downlaod the needed grfs" 11:47:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: but I also showed you we can even make it on-demand downloading of translations ;) :) 11:47:27 <TrueBrain> (I can make such silly patches :) Ghehehehe :)) 11:47:29 <Ammler> well, at least, what the ps players complain about, 11:47:43 <blathijs> ps? 11:47:50 <Ammler> cooop public server 11:48:00 <TrueBrain> Ammler: you should avoid words like 'ps' ;) 11:48:11 <TrueBrain> words .. letters :p 11:48:42 <Rubidium> how do NewGRFs handle defining the same string for the same language twice? 11:52:16 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:39 <Rubidium> that might give some troubles when the main GRF contains translations and you load a _trans.grf that does the same 11:52:55 <TrueBrain> something to fix, I guess? :) 11:54:40 <Rubidium> generally redefining stuff in NewGRF context means you've made a mistake, so I'm not quite sure whether ignoring such checks for mistakes is a good idea 11:54:59 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:55:28 <TrueBrain> if it comes from another grf? 11:55:36 <Ammler> hmm, doesn't it just override, if not 7F or FF 11:56:07 <planetmaker> <Rubidium> how do NewGRFs handle defining the same string for the same language twice? <-- iirc the last instance overrides the previous ones 11:57:45 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejl241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:59:08 *** kingj is now known as KingJ 12:00:29 <Ammler> http://www.ttdpatch.net/tools.html#grftrans <-- using this tool does confim override, imo. 12:04:04 <Ammler> the german tanslator thread is silly, why do you discuss there in english, all contributors there speak german. :-) 12:04:36 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I am glad they do 12:04:40 <TrueBrain> means I can follow it from time to time 12:04:50 <Ammler> yeah, it is funny :-) 12:05:17 * Rubidium gives TrueBrain an albert.nl cookie ;) 12:05:32 <TrueBrain> for what? 12:05:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-144-20-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:05:46 * Ammler wonders if the Austrian Roujin doesn't need a de_AT language 12:06:32 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:06:54 <Ammler> @seen Roujin 12:06:55 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Roujin was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 53 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Roujin> can anyone give me some pointers how to handle utf8 strings in openttd (I'd like to print them to a file)? This is what I currently have: http://paste.openttd.org/183509 Obviously it doesn't work with utf8 and writes some ascii garbage in the places where non-ascii chars are 12:06:59 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: System Administrator Appreciation Day (a cookie is one of their gift ideas) 12:07:10 <TrueBrain> Ah :) A bit late, but yeah, tnx :) 12:07:11 <TrueBrain> you too ;) 12:07:33 <Rubidium> why late? You haven't had your afternoon tea yet, right? 12:07:40 <TrueBrain> true 12:07:42 <TrueBrain> I will keep it for that 12:07:44 <TrueBrain> in my special box 12:11:00 <Ammler> btw. if you will support "sub" languages like de_CH, you might also think about bind the region settings to the language files, something Eddi some time ago suggested already. 12:11:47 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:12:12 *** paul_ [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:15:44 <TrueBrain> who can think up a better solution for this: 12:15:46 <TrueBrain> translator/script.py core.subproject.create OpenTTD trunk -- openttd.base=english subversion.path=trunk/lang subversion.revision=1 12:16:03 <TrueBrain> this tells the system to create a subproject for project OpenTTD with the name trunk, and gives the other parameters to the plugins named 12:17:26 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:21:06 <TrueBrain> tdev: I thought you said you were all mine :'( Hehe :) Oh well :) I tried ;) 12:21:35 <tdev> i was fighting with AS script generators for cpp 12:21:40 <tdev> reading your page :) 12:21:43 <TrueBrain> :p 12:22:08 <TrueBrain> we can btw talk it over in #webtranslator, if yuo like .. here is fine by me too, as it still is OpenTTD related ;) 12:22:36 *** Choco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDD2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:11 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDD2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:23:11 *** Choco-Banana-Man is now known as Coco-Banana-Man 12:31:53 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:33:35 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A72.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:57 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75BD0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:25 <Belugas> hello 12:38:31 * TrueBrain hugs Belugas 12:38:35 <TrueBrain> it is always so nice to see you 12:38:40 <TrueBrain> I start all smiling and stuff 12:38:50 <Belugas> whou hou! 12:39:08 <Belugas> i like when people react that way to my entrance :D 12:39:21 <Belugas> imagine if we are face to face one day ;) 12:40:04 <Rubidium> guess we need a OTTDconf0A 12:40:30 <TrueBrain> Belugas: I guess then it is all over :p 12:40:33 <TrueBrain> magic gone :) 12:41:17 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514ff360.l4.c4.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:36 <Belugas> somehow, i don't believe that for even a fraction of a second 12:42:40 <Rubidium> so... which airliner would like to sponsor a bunch of people from all over Europe flying to Canada? 12:42:51 <Rubidium> (and possibly back) 12:42:52 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: private jet? 12:42:53 <Belugas> or.. the other way around... 12:44:59 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: not necessarily, I accept JAL scheduled flights too 12:45:44 <Rubidium> if they've got economy business (2 economy seats per person) or economy first class seats (3+ economy sets per person) 12:48:48 <Rubidium> as replacement for Canada I'm also willing to accept Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Norway or Hawaii 12:49:47 <TrueBrain> Hawaii 12:49:51 <TrueBrain> sounds reasonable 12:50:14 *** PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:40 *** Yrol [~Yrol@Pfd51.p.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 12:50:44 <Forked> Norway, weee 12:51:45 <Belugas> if it happens at Hawaii, even if i'm there, you will not see me 12:51:48 <Belugas> as ... 12:51:50 <Belugas> i'll be... 12:51:53 <TrueBrain> I will join you on that ;) 12:51:55 <Belugas> well... yuo know... 12:52:00 <Belugas> you hou! 12:52:24 <Rubidium> Belugas: only means that we need a bit more sophisticated 'working' environment 12:52:32 <Yrol> hello :o) i just revereted my trunk via SVN to r16750 and applied a patch for that version, now, when i compile it, i get massive errors where i dont get any, if i compile the current trunk. whats happening there? 12:52:41 <Rubidium> though the water cooled machinery is nice ;) 12:52:51 <Belugas> lol! 12:53:29 <Belugas> Yrol, could be so many things... who knows 12:55:31 <Yrol> i guess so, yes. but to me it slowly seems, that there is some hidden line in everything openttd.. and it says to my pc "DONT compile!!!" 12:56:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> assert_compile(name!="Yrol")? 12:57:44 <Yrol> how funny 12:58:28 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Rubidium> guess we need a OTTDconf0A <- you mean you want to discuss things that will go into version 0.A? :p 13:00:04 <Belugas> Yrol, it compiles everytime i try at home... soo... 13:00:13 <Belugas> cristal ball! 13:00:48 <Yrol> (Belugas) of course it does, you dont use win32, right? ;o) 13:01:08 <Belugas> MSVC 13:01:13 <Belugas> on xp 13:01:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> when Belugas is a Delphi person, he is raher likely to use windows 13:01:38 <Belugas> yup 13:01:39 <Belugas> quite 13:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> +t 13:01:54 * Belugas gives a "t" 13:01:57 <Belugas> too late :( 13:01:59 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 13:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't have tea in a while... 13:02:30 <z-MaTRiX> brb 13:02:42 * TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause a nice cup of tea 13:02:47 <TrueBrain> I have the cookies 13:02:51 <TrueBrain> Rubidium gave them to me :) 13:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i know how to get these ;) 13:03:06 <Yrol> (Belugas) i dont understand it though, if the current, newest source compiles well, shouldnt then some ageold version also compile? 13:03:41 <TrueBrain> Yrol: if your new car runs fine 13:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: you're applying a custom patch that we do not know anything about... 13:03:45 <TrueBrain> should you old car run fine too? 13:03:59 <TrueBrain> what kind of nonsense is that ... 13:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nor is "it doesn't work" a proper error message 13:04:30 <Belugas> whatever the revision, nothing is garanteed to be compilable 13:04:34 <Rubidium> Yrol: 16754 compiled on MSVC 13:04:34 <dihedral> @seen yexo 13:04:35 <DorpsGek> dihedral: yexo was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 22 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Yexo> I vote for complete ban of Alain from the development forum. <- You have my vote :) 13:04:38 <dihedral> :-( 13:04:40 <Belugas> we did break trunk quite oftenly 13:04:55 <Rubidium> I don't see any compile fixes since 16750, so there must be something wrong with your environment/source 13:06:20 <Yrol> TrueBrain, sure, the way you twist my sentence, it makes no sense. but a car doesnt run itself.. "I" run the car and i run an old car aswell as a new car. 13:06:22 <Alberth> Yrol: not always; c++ compilers change, even the C++ language changes 13:06:37 <Yrol> (Eddi|zuHause) im not asking for help, thius i dont need a 50 page-errordescriptnio 13:07:45 <TrueBrain> Yrol: you clearly don't understand how this works :) 13:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and your analogy isn't valid. if you learned how to drive an automatic (new) car, you don't know how to drive a manual (old) car 13:08:02 <TrueBrain> Yrol: but if you didn't got it yet: we can't help you as you are very vague 13:08:06 * Rubidium would like Yrol drive a T-Ford 13:08:17 <Rubidium> +to see 13:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or a car where the gears are not synchronised 13:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there're many ways to break old cars when you are not used to them 13:08:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, striclty only the first 2 are synced 13:09:06 <TrueBrain> but yeah ... I wouldn't like it when they were not :p 13:11:49 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 13:11:50 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw 13:16:56 *** Svenska [~Svenska@wh2-212.st.Uni-Magdeburg.DE] has joined #openttd 13:17:09 <Svenska> hi 13:17:21 <Svenska> i'm using openttd 0.7.1 stable (debian squeeze) 13:17:31 <Svenska> can i use fluidsynth in openttd to get the midi music working? 13:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you could check the docs for "extmidi" 13:18:13 <Svenska> timidity hangs after i quit openttd, then the sound card stops working until reboot 13:18:40 <Svenska> what is extmidi? 13:18:42 <dihedral> burn the songs to a cd, and play them on your stereo 13:18:52 <Svenska> bad idea -> no stereo :) 13:18:57 <dihedral> ext(ernal) midi 13:19:37 <dihedral> copy them to your ipod, mp3 palyer, or whatever else you might have... perhaps a walkman 13:19:49 <Rubidium> extmidi is OpenTTD's way of calling an external application for playing the midi 13:20:02 <Rubidium> by default extmidi calls timidity 13:20:27 <blathijs> You can pass it a "cmd" option to make it use another program (e.g., fluidsynth) 13:20:28 <z-MaTRiX> hi 13:20:41 <Svenska> ah... 13:20:41 <z-MaTRiX> just got a replacement hdd 13:20:47 <blathijs> Rubidium probably knows how to pass an option to an output driver, I don't have openttd handy to check :-) 13:20:51 <Svenska> thanks for now 13:23:28 <Rubidium> Svenska: try openttd -m extmidi:cmd=fluidsynth (or whatever the name is) 13:25:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17001 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace some more assert(0)s to NOT_REACHED() and document why they (assert(0)) have to stay for the remaining cases. 13:26:44 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it is just one case! :p (the latter) 13:27:26 <Svenska> Rubidium: thank you, i'll try 13:27:33 <Svenska> for now it doesn't work 13:27:48 <Svenska> i put "extmidi = fluidsynth -l -a alsa -i /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2" in my openttd.cfg 13:28:35 <Svenska> which works from console; is there some kind of debug output? 13:29:35 <Rubidium> Svenska: extmidi isn't a used setting in 0.7/trunk 13:29:43 <Rubidium> as a result it isn't used 13:29:57 <Svenska> oh; cause "extmidi = timidity" was in there before 13:30:23 <Svenska> your command doesn't work 13:30:28 <Rubidium> Svenska: that's from 'long' ago 13:30:58 <Svenska> is there a replacement setting or is it gone? 13:31:56 <Rubidium> IIRC it's part of music_driver, but if my command doesn't work, then setting the same in music_driver doesn't work either 13:32:15 <Rubidium> though I'm trying to get it installed on my computer to fiddle a bit 13:36:36 <Yrol> TrueBrain, it certainly is the case, that i dont understand how programming and compiling works, nevertheless i try, i still try since a year or so, regardless of the difficulties i find put in my way by code as well as people. thats, in the end, why i AM here, to ask, to learn how to get stuff working without being helped learnign to walk. if then some people think, how a question is asked is wrong, sorry, they can roll up their oh so holy pamphlet of that 13:37:05 <TrueBrain> Yrol: lol .. ever considerd and read what we try to tell you? Give us some more clues what you are trying 13:37:10 <TrueBrain> we can't help you with: IT DOESNT WORK 13:37:27 <TrueBrain> but .. I tried to say that in 3 different ways now .. I will just give up :) 13:38:32 <Svenska> Rubidium: "cmd" may only accept one word, not a complete command line 13:38:44 <Svenska> using a script which just calls fluidsynth works 13:38:55 <Svenska> but when I quit openttd, the song plays to its end :) 13:39:14 *** MizardX [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: reboot] 13:40:35 <Rubidium> Svenska: then that's probably the simplest way to get it to work 13:41:04 <Svenska> well, openttd does probably not support ALSA midi? 13:41:25 <Rubidium> OpenTTD doesn't do alsa directly 13:41:39 <Svenska> then same question for SDL probably 13:41:44 <TrueBrain> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html <- nice website :) 13:42:09 <Svenska> another question: can I get the fonts larger (without changing resolution) ? 13:42:14 <Rubidium> Svenska: SDL doesn't do midi 13:42:29 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has joined #openttd 13:42:33 <Rubidium> Svenska: openttd does support allegro midi though 13:42:54 <TrueBrain> hmm .. when I don't send any music to my boxes, I receive AM over it ... 13:43:26 <Svenska> i'll have a look, thank you 13:43:41 <z-MaTRiX> brb 13:43:43 <Svenska> but still: is there a way to enlarge the fonts? 13:43:50 <z-MaTRiX> haveaniceprogramming 13:44:43 *** MizardX [MizardX@h-28-236.A159.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:45:30 <Rubidium> Svenska: yes and no; you can enlarge the fonts, but the GUI doesn't scale (yet), as a result enlarging the font doesn't have much benefit in making stuff more legible 13:45:47 <Svenska> is this planned? 13:45:59 <Rubidium> yes 13:46:02 <Svenska> (even now, the german texts are getting out of their boxes) 13:46:27 <Svenska> for 0.8.0 ? ;-) 13:46:47 <Rubidium> probably partially 13:47:01 <Rubidium> but that all depends on how much time the dev can put into it 13:47:34 <Svenska> okay, 'cause the fonts are way to small for me and resolution changing is, there's simply not enough space 13:47:34 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:48:05 <Rubidium> that happens when games are designed on 640x480 13:48:35 <Svenska> okay, i wish you a nice afternoon/evening then 13:50:01 <Svenska> bye 13:50:05 *** Svenska [~Svenska@wh2-212.st.Uni-Magdeburg.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:50:05 <Rubidium> ciao 13:50:11 <Rubidium> yay... too late again! 13:50:17 <Rubidium> I'm getting good at that 13:50:57 <TrueBrain> being late? 13:50:59 <TrueBrain> getting late? 13:51:04 <TrueBrain> oh .. I should stop thinking :) 13:52:07 <Rubidium> as long as I'm not "the late Rubidium" everything's fine (by me at least) 13:52:22 <TrueBrain> ghehe :) 13:53:03 <OwenS> English is so full of funny euphanisms for death (And I know I spelt that horrably wrong) 13:54:47 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:17 <OwenS> And is it just me or is "MPEG-4 Advanced Simple Profile" a really stupid name? :p 13:56:27 <TrueBrain> I agree 13:56:47 <OwenS> ... never mind that H.264 is also MPEG-4 (Sooo much confusion could have been saved if that had been MPEG-5...) 13:57:08 <OwenS> And, incidentally, WTF happened to MPEG-3? :p 13:57:43 <OwenS> Though I'm kinda hoping Dirac becomes popular 13:57:55 <TrueBrain> Dirac? 13:58:01 <OwenS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirac_(codec) 13:58:13 <OwenS> Royalty free codec by the BBC with better than h.264 efficiency 13:58:36 <TrueBrain> ah ;) 13:58:59 <OwenS> All the fuss over the useless Theora and everyone forgets Dirac 13:59:32 <OwenS> (And Theora is really useles; you can't use decode hardware designed for any of the MPEG family of codecs with it - you can DIrac - cause apparently they wanted to make it different in every possible way) 14:04:14 <TrueBrain> Theora .. Dirac .. who makes up those names?! 14:04:36 *** reldred1 [~reldred@115.131.209.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:48 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:02 <OwenS> Dirac is named after scientist Paul Dirac :P 14:06:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.210.119] has joined #openttd 14:11:40 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 14:13:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.215.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:23:37 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:40 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:21 <TrueBrain> it is too hot outside :( 14:37:48 <Azrael-> That's why going outside is a bad idea. 14:37:57 <TrueBrain> one needs to do shopping at some point 14:38:05 <TrueBrain> besides, it is getting inside :s 14:38:13 <planetmaker> good point. 14:38:48 <Azrael-> Can't you order your shopping on the internet? 14:38:58 <TrueBrain> not if I want it in by today 14:39:08 <Azrael-> If I was ever in a position of responsibility (and I sure hope I never am) then I'd just order it online. 14:39:13 *** Yrol [~Yrol@Pfd51.p.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: MOOOOOOOOOO?????] 14:39:35 <planetmaker> "Without a problem we can't say anything about the real problem." <-- Yexo, you're sure you don't want to replace one word? 14:39:36 <Azrael-> Hah! "Moooooo?". What excellent wit. 14:40:43 <TrueBrain> "hy i AM here, to ask, to learn how to get stuff working without being helped learnign to walk" <- I liked this quote more :) Reads to me: I WANT YOU TO DO IT :p 14:41:52 <planetmaker> thread? ^ 14:41:58 <TrueBrain> this channel, a while ago 14:42:05 <planetmaker> he :-P 14:42:15 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:42:23 <planetmaker> good one indeed. 14:50:37 <Xaroth> TrueBrain: it done yet? 14:50:43 <TrueBrain> nope 14:50:45 <TrueBrain> not fixed 14:50:45 <Xaroth> :( 14:50:47 <TrueBrain> can't find it 14:59:15 <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I wish I did ... but I really am out of ideas :( 14:59:32 <Belugas> Getting better (or worse) everytime : "Hi all i will this be the best way over going about geting trains to over take each other on a net work" 14:59:37 <Belugas> WHAT??????? 14:59:49 <TrueBrain> haha :) 15:00:01 <TrueBrain> the bigger this community gets, the more insane the questions become :) 15:02:19 <Forked> damn community and their people :\ 15:02:29 <Forked> s/their/it's* 15:02:33 <TrueBrain> lets ban them all 15:02:39 <TrueBrain> starting with dihedral 15:02:40 <TrueBrain> (hihi :)) 15:02:42 * TrueBrain hugs dihedral 15:02:58 <Forked> not the worst choice ;p 15:02:59 * Forked hids 15:03:04 <Forked> damn laptop keyboard.. HIDES. 15:11:18 *** Forked [~kjetil@presenterer.formye.info] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:14:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:21:05 <OwenS> I wish less wikis used the Monobook style. It's monotonous... 15:21:27 <TrueBrain> hehe 15:21:32 <TrueBrain> start a campaign :) 15:21:57 <OwenS> It's even more common than SubSilver is/was for PHPbb2... 15:23:46 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:24:05 <valhallasw> OwenS: are there mediawiki skin pages? :P 15:24:14 <valhallasw> I mean, phpBB has a large skin-building-community 15:25:41 <OwenS> valhallasw: I presume there are :P 15:26:02 <OwenS> Even more silly though, I've seen a Monobook styled PMWiki... 15:28:57 <valhallasw> Belugas: probably related to http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532 15:29:06 <valhallasw> without the double paste... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=44532 15:29:17 <Belugas> mmh? 15:29:24 * Belugas shall look 15:29:25 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:30:18 <Belugas> valhallasw, you mean Alain-machin attempt to write something in english? 15:30:22 <valhallasw> yeah 15:30:44 <valhallasw> sorry, I didn't make that clear 15:31:12 <Belugas> so we are required to start up a commitee everytime this !@#$%&* is saying somethng on the web in order to decrypt it? 15:31:27 <Belugas> it is pure non sens 15:34:08 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:34:18 <valhallasw> so is his savegame *grin* 15:43:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.210.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:26 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 15:45:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.210.119] has joined #openttd 15:53:21 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:56:08 <Belugas> mmh... buy a vehicle or build a vehicle 15:59:15 <Lakie> For language purposes, I think "buy" is more correct. 15:59:32 <Lakie> As you usually buy them from the manfactor who has built it? 16:00:57 <Lakie> And since you could be buy already made vehicles or have them made for you, it becomes ambious if you go below the buy from manfactor level. 16:01:52 <TrueBrain> wow, I had to check this really was #openttd .. the most sensible argumentation I have seen all week :) 16:02:04 <TrueBrain> +1 kudo to Lakie :) 16:03:15 <Lakie> Heh 16:05:02 <TrueBrain> (I hope it was clear I was not being sarcastic of which I know is rare for me :)) 16:07:14 <Lakie> I was just thinking of how its done in reality, and what would be simplest to understand. 16:09:12 <Belugas> good point Lakie 16:09:37 <Belugas> planetmaker raised the issue, i'm "thinking" out loud 16:10:28 <Lakie> Hehe 16:11:35 <Belugas> it does make more sens since we(user-wise) are transportation companies, not manufacturers 16:11:48 <Belugas> WHERE'S THE TRUCK PLANT??? 16:11:58 <Lakie> Heh, in a void? 16:12:12 <Lakie> We have portals called depots to them. 16:12:14 * Lakie hides 16:12:32 <Belugas> yeah :D 16:13:22 <Belugas> mh... not Yeah to Hiding.. Yeah to portals... 16:13:30 <Belugas> arffff 16:14:09 <Lakie> Heh 16:14:52 <Lakie> Did planetmaker want to know for translating or customizing? 16:15:27 <Belugas> neither 16:15:33 <Belugas> correction of trunk 16:15:47 <Belugas> there's an SF patch for that 16:16:00 <Lakie> Hmmm... ok 16:16:09 <Belugas> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2997 16:16:14 * Lakie should really keep more up to date with OpenTTD. 16:16:24 <Belugas> that's what i try to do :D 16:17:08 <Lakie> It does change pretty fast, has quite a massive development rate though. :) 16:18:48 *** GregVernon [~Greg@user-0c9aat3.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 16:19:26 <Chruker> Can anybody recommend a good client-server like program for windows for watching TV over LANs? 16:19:53 <Belugas> true Lakie, SO true 16:20:25 <Belugas> Chruker, usually, when i want TV, i go in my living room... 16:20:51 <Chruker> well, good for you 16:28:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17002 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Change: also support distant join for waypoints 16:29:29 * Alberth thinks of suggesting a security web-cam to make sure the TV does not move without you noticing it. 16:30:39 <TrueBrain> lol @ Alberth 16:35:57 <Ammler> [18:28] <Belugas> [18:16:09] http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2997 <-- shouldn't the patch also change the keys, else it is just a task for tanslator,? 16:41:52 <planetmaker> That is IMO just a task for translators 16:42:55 <planetmaker> But english.txt isn't translated and it's the example which tranlators usually follow 16:43:03 <Belugas> it could, dunno 16:43:05 <planetmaker> And I think it itself could be made more consistant 16:43:32 <planetmaker> it's really a no-issue, but well :-) 16:43:46 <Belugas> for sure, making english change will "force" other translators to consider 16:43:56 <planetmaker> exactly :-) 16:44:44 <planetmaker> and, well. Still, a transport company rather buys than builds vehicles :-) 16:45:00 <planetmaker> After all we get ingame also an offer to buy and test them prior to market release 16:45:09 <planetmaker> If we built them ourselves, that wouldn't happen 16:45:25 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:45:50 <TrueBrain> mornign Yexo 16:46:05 <Yexo> hello TrueBrain 16:47:33 <Ammler> [18:44] <Belugas> for sure, making english change will "force" other translators to consider <-- Also, if you keep the key? 16:47:39 <Yexo> thanks for the message planetmaker 16:47:47 <planetmaker> hm... but I start to see what you mean with "change the keys", Ammler :-) 16:47:52 <planetmaker> Yexo: you're welcome 16:48:22 <planetmaker> Ammler: they're notified of changed strings 16:48:42 <planetmaker> or at least there's a category "changed strings" or "strings needing attention" 16:48:55 <planetmaker> it's good practise to check them from time to time as translator ;-) 16:49:20 <Rubidium> isn't that the 'default' on you get to when going in the editor? 16:49:32 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Never underestimate the power of stupidity.] 16:49:43 <planetmaker> dunno. May even be :-) 16:49:49 <planetmaker> I'd have said "all strings" though 16:49:52 <Ammler> ah ok, then it might make sense, not changing the key :-) 16:50:29 <Rubidium> if there are no missing strings/strings needed attention that'd be the case 16:50:33 <planetmaker> Ammler: that could be done, too. But then it should be done in all languages. So that no action from a translator is required. But rather only asked for 16:51:18 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@78-105-102-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:51:39 *** TMS [~Will@75-136-132-146.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has joined #openttd 16:52:10 <Ammler> planetmaker: but then, will it still be makred as "needs attention"? 16:52:22 <planetmaker> dunno 16:52:35 <TMS> How do I start a dedicated server to run in the background? 16:52:39 <TMS> I don't want it hogging the command line. 16:52:44 <Yexo> ./openttd -D & 16:52:53 <Ammler> TMS: I wouldn't recommend that, use screen instead. 16:53:04 <Yexo> but I agree with Ammler 16:53:34 <TMS> Why would you recommend against it? 16:53:51 <planetmaker> it may have interesting output :-) 16:54:06 <TMS> But doesn't it log everything? 16:54:12 <planetmaker> and it might help to be able to act as the server itself 16:54:14 <Ammler> console sometimes is more comfort than rcon 16:54:14 <TMS> I mean, surely it does, being a server and all. 16:54:26 <planetmaker> why should it log? 16:54:42 <TMS> In case a bug occurs, and you need logs of what happened? 16:54:47 <Yexo> TMS: OpenTTD doesn't log any output to a file by default 16:55:02 <planetmaker> that's why screen is so handy :-) 16:55:28 <Yexo> you could also redirect all console output 16:55:32 <Ammler> TMS: your server isn't windows? 16:55:40 <TMS> ...No. 16:55:47 <Belugas> ho... SHAME ON YOU! 16:55:48 <TMS> It's ... Debian. 16:55:57 <TMS> Console-only Debian. 16:56:12 <TrueBrain> TMS: btw, to answer your question: ./openttd -D -f forks 16:56:54 <Belugas> forks? 16:56:56 <Belugas> works? 16:57:07 <Belugas> breaks? 16:57:07 <TrueBrain> Belugas: you fork a process 16:57:20 <Belugas> lies! 16:57:23 <TrueBrain> okay 16:57:24 <TMS> right, I also need to load a savegame on startup, and have it reload everytime the server auto-resets 16:57:24 <Belugas> i fork a knoife 16:57:26 <TMS> Can this be done? 16:57:28 <Belugas> knife 16:57:46 <Rubidium> "imagine there is no fork"... "oh, you're using Windows?" 16:57:53 <planetmaker> TMS: it can. 16:57:58 <Belugas> hehehe 16:58:04 <planetmaker> best way to control is autopilot+ 16:58:08 <planetmaker> ap+ 16:58:22 <planetmaker> it's a wrapper tcl script 16:58:53 <TMS> assuming that means I should run apt-get install python ;) 16:59:02 <Ammler> tcl 16:59:11 <TMS> oh, yeah' 16:59:18 <Ammler> and expect 16:59:20 <TMS> Silly me. 17:00:22 <Ammler> then you would be able to control over IRC and give rcon to every op in the channel 17:01:06 <TMS> conveniently enough, I run an IRC server on the same machine 17:01:12 <TMS> (not the one I'm typing on) 17:01:37 <planetmaker> obviously. you're on an oftc server here :-) 17:02:07 <TMS> ;) 17:02:47 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has joined #openttd 17:03:19 <Ammler> oh, btw. creating logs is as easy just pipe the output to file... 17:03:40 <TMS> openttd -D > log.txt 17:03:43 <TMS> simple as that 17:03:58 <Ammler> 1>log 2>error 17:15:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff91c.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 17:16:31 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit] 17:16:40 <TMS> planetmaker: should I use autopilot or ap+? 17:18:08 <OwenS> Does OpenTTD require custom ACKs of every packet or something? Cause otherwise I can't understand how my download speed is sooo slow with OpenTTD compared to everything else 17:19:06 <TrueBrain> yes, we send an ACK of an ACK of an ACK, just to ACK to ACK :p 17:19:08 <TrueBrain> gheheh :) 17:19:14 <TrueBrain> maybe you just have a bad peering :) 17:19:30 <OwenS> Same server is fast via HTTP 17:19:34 <OwenS> Just something funky :p 17:19:39 <TrueBrain> that is your ISP by friend :) 17:19:43 <TrueBrain> 'torrent' limitation 17:19:48 <TrueBrain> by = my 17:19:50 <TrueBrain> lol 17:20:00 <Ammler> [19:16] <TMS> planetmaker: should I use autopilot or ap+? <-- + 17:20:08 <TMS> k then 17:20:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 17:21:02 <Ammler> TMS: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=ap+ 17:21:38 <OwenS> TrueBrain: If it were a torrent limitation I wouldn't be able to torrent well :p 17:21:52 <TrueBrain> maybe it runs at the same speed? :p 17:22:24 <TrueBrain> the only 'problem' the content service can have, that it always sends a packet of N size 17:22:33 <TrueBrain> (doesn't grow or shrinks depending on the speed) 17:22:41 <OwenS> I was refering to the save game download 17:22:42 <TrueBrain> or either way, last time I looked at the code :p 17:22:55 <TrueBrain> then you were unclear :p 17:23:02 <TrueBrain> in that case again: peering ;) 17:25:57 <OwenS> 3 esr3.sheffield3.broadband.bt.net (217.47.73.142) 151.733 ms 151.700 ms 153.575 ms <- First hop off my premisis... OUCH 17:26:08 <TrueBrain> l) 17:26:10 <TrueBrain> ;) 17:26:11 <TrueBrain> as said: peering 17:26:22 <TrueBrain> happens 17:26:24 <OwenS> Thats not peering. Thats ISP suckage 17:26:31 <TrueBrain> depends on what is 2) and 4) 17:27:01 <TMS> Ah crap, where do I download Autopilot? 17:27:04 <OwenS> 2) 172.16.0.1 4) 217.47.73.13 17:27:10 <TMS> I'm on the main Autopilot page, nothing's here about downloading. 17:27:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: hostmasks .. but I can lok those up myself :p 17:27:30 <Ammler> TMS: svn 17:27:43 <TMS> oh boy, svn. 17:28:04 <Ammler> well, there is also a zip of the source 17:28:13 <OwenS> 150ms first hop latency... BT, I SO HATE YOU 17:28:30 <TMS> What's the SVN server? 17:28:45 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, that is terrible, yes :p 17:29:40 <OwenS> Even worse: 400ms before it leaves sheffield. WTF is it doing in sheffield anyway? Why is my connection running on ATM so far? 17:30:47 <Ammler> TMS: the link is on the bottom of that page 17:30:51 <TrueBrain> OwenS: don't try to understand peering :) 17:30:52 <TMS> k, thanks 17:31:02 <TrueBrain> (it always takes the cheapest route :)) 17:31:16 <OwenS> Within their network all routes should be equal cost! 17:31:28 <TrueBrain> depending on utilization, that might or might not be true :) 17:31:36 <OwenS> 150ms me to them; 400ms to the edge of the building; 450ms to london; 600ms to nl; 650ms to server 17:31:39 <TrueBrain> I even offload traffic over other connections within our network if it is needed :p 17:31:59 <TrueBrain> 150 from london to AMS-IX? 17:32:03 <TrueBrain> that is VERY poor performance :p 17:32:08 <OwenS> Telehouse London to AMS-IX, yes 17:32:19 <TrueBrain> euhm .. I reach that in 4ms, in worst case :p 17:32:29 <TrueBrain> sometimes 6 .. around this time :p 17:32:53 <OwenS> Though I must say that some routers appear to be being lazy in responding to pings 17:34:14 <TrueBrain> isn't that normal? :) 17:34:34 <OwenS> I mean very very lazy 17:34:43 <OwenS> As in I get large variations between hops :p 17:35:16 <TMS> uhh 17:35:21 <TMS> Once I've started a dedicated server 17:35:32 <TMS> how do I disable it/restart it if it's running in the background? 17:35:53 <Ammler> so you won't use ap+? 17:36:04 <TMS> nah, I'll just use cron 17:36:09 <TrueBrain> TMS: for that you need the console 17:36:35 <TMS> So there's no way to stop the process without using a console? 17:36:47 <TMS> That's... not very good. :/ 17:36:53 <Ammler> ap+ has also a api to support kill signals for combine with cron. ;-) 17:36:55 <TrueBrain> make a patch 17:37:43 <OwenS> I need to get us switched onto Virgin Media. 17:37:45 <TMS> I'm having a hard time getting TCL working, and the fact that you have to use SVN to get the files isn't helping. 17:37:53 <OwenS> 20MB via DOCCIS (I.E. actually delivered) 17:38:11 <TrueBrain> TMS: apt-get install subversion 17:38:15 <TrueBrain> should't be that much of a problem ;) 17:38:29 <Ammler> well, I offered you the source as zip or what ever... 17:38:30 <OwenS> apt-get install tcl expect :p 17:38:38 <TMS> I mean I don't know how to use svn :( 17:38:39 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I love this country ... internet works here :) Well, unless you take a REALLY crappy ISP :p 17:38:48 <TrueBrain> TMS: svn checkout svn://<url here> 17:39:02 <OwenS> TrueBrain: BT should have a good network. Reality says otherwise... 17:39:12 <Ammler> .nl has a bit trouble with reverse DNS 17:39:13 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I run within 4ms to AMS-IX :p 17:39:25 <TrueBrain> Ammler: lol, what a weird thing to say 17:39:32 <TrueBrain> clearly you don't understand reverse DNS requests :) 17:40:07 <OwenS> A.B.C.D.in-addr.arpa. PTR some.domain.any.tld. 17:40:53 <TrueBrain> and those arpa requests are deligated along the chain to the AS, and ISP, (and possible the user) 17:41:07 <TrueBrain> which means you can in no way ever say that .nl has trouble with reverse DNS 17:41:08 <Ammler> Jul 21 23:30:26 mozart sshd[12235]: Address 82.x.x.x xxx-a.groni1.gr.home.nl, but this does not map back to the address - POSSIBLE BREAK-IN ATTEMPT! <-- mostly from .nl domains. 17:41:13 <TrueBrain> as it is NOT grouped by that 17:41:23 <TrueBrain> Ammler: so based on ONE entry, you make an assumption? 17:41:33 <TrueBrain> you don't deserve a cookie today, you are a bad sysop :) 17:41:35 <Ammler> no, 2 of our members have that 17:41:40 <Ammler> both are dutch :-) 17:41:46 <TrueBrain> just means an ISP fucked up 17:41:51 <TrueBrain> which is not unusual 17:42:49 <valhallasw> Ammler: cable providers fucking up 17:42:51 <valhallasw> ^^ 17:42:51 <TrueBrain> Ammler: I know 2 black people who has done jail: ALL black people have done jail 17:42:55 <TrueBrain> I mean .. wtf? 17:43:01 <Ammler> :-D 17:43:11 <TrueBrain> don't make stupid generalizations 17:43:14 <TrueBrain> makes you look stupid 17:43:15 <OwenS> Reminds me to update my server's RDNS 17:43:20 <OwenS> TrueBrain: 4ms to AMS-IX? I get 202ms to edge of LINX and 198ms to AMS-IX 17:43:25 <TrueBrain> OwenS: hehe, I did just that too :p :p 17:43:27 <Ammler> TrueBrain: you began with 17:44:05 <TrueBrain> OwenS: within 20 meters of copper, I run on fiber (all the way to the AS, and on) 17:44:08 <TrueBrain> so it is not really fair ;) 17:44:20 <OwenS> I think I have 3 miles of copper... 17:44:38 <OwenS> Thats as-the-crow-flies, not actual length.. 17:44:45 <TrueBrain> the copper allows me 100 mbit/s, the fiber 1 gbit/s (up to the local POP), after that it is 40 gbit/s :p 17:44:53 <OwenS> Virgin Media I'd have about 5 meters of copper... 17:45:02 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: 20 meters? most colocated boxes have more copper than that :P 17:45:21 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: most likely :) 17:45:25 <TrueBrain> well, not really 17:45:26 <OwenS> (5 meters of DOCCIS over copper coax anyway) 17:45:26 <TrueBrain> depends :p 17:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17003 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): 17:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell 17:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 3 changes by glx 17:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker 17:45:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 21 changes by prof 17:45:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 6 changes by SupSuper 17:45:35 <valhallasw> yeah, I realized that when I said it :P 17:45:39 <TrueBrain> most racks have fibers nowedays 17:45:40 <OwenS> (Fiber-to-the-pedestal) 17:45:44 <TMS> You guys said http://svn.openttdcoop.org/tools/autopilot/branches/ap+/ is the SVN url 17:45:47 <TMS> that's an HTTP version 17:45:50 <TMS> I need the raw SVN url 17:46:04 <Ammler> svn supports http 17:46:15 <valhallasw> hmm, leidenuniv ip? :P 17:46:18 <TrueBrain> TMS: try before complain 17:46:20 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: dah 17:46:25 <OwenS> TMS: Thats an SVN Webdav URL... 17:46:36 *** hermy [~smerek@222.74.200.2] has joined #openttd 17:46:36 <hermy> Télécharger ce script / Download this script / Transfiera esta mIRC escritura / Laden Sie diesen Index herunter www.ircfr.com/telecharger.aspx?ID=50235 17:46:36 *** hermy [~smerek@222.74.200.2] has left #openttd [] 17:46:41 <TMS> well, that's the one that the page provided to me 17:46:57 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: student housing .. so copper till the box in my hallway, fiber to uni, fiber to surfnet :p 17:47:04 <Ammler> cool, first time, our +m worked :-) 17:47:09 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:21 <OwenS> TMS: svn co http://svn.openttdcoop.org/tools/autopilot/branches/ap+/ autopilot 17:47:26 <Ammler> [19:46] --> hermy hat den Kanal betreten (~smerek@222.74.200.2). 17:47:27 <Yexo> Existing translations: "Geef plaatsnamen weer 17:47:28 <Yexo> ", "Geef stationsnamen weer 17:47:28 <Yexo> ". let's be consistent, lets add "Namen controlepost weergegeven 17:47:28 <Yexo> " 17:47:28 <Ammler> [19:46] <-- hermy hat den Kanal verlassen. 17:47:43 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: right :P 17:48:07 <TrueBrain> Ammler: what are you babbling? 17:48:11 <TrueBrain> @mode +m 17:48:14 *** mode/#openttd [+m] by DorpsGek 17:48:25 *** mode/#openttd [-m] by DorpsGek 17:48:25 <Ammler> well, first time I saw it working. 17:48:28 <TrueBrain> doesn't look like it was +m, was it? 17:48:47 <Ammler> TrueBrain: we use +m on #openttdcoop 17:49:05 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, sorry, my cristal ball indeed told me that 17:49:07 <TrueBrain> my mistake 17:49:49 <Ammler> well, it was SmatZyIdea 17:50:08 <TrueBrain> you do understand I am complainnig about your absolute lack of putting things in perspective for us? 17:50:14 <TrueBrain> and that you just started to babble something? :) 17:50:25 * Yexo goes changing all newly translated strings :( 17:50:27 <TrueBrain> (worse: you started to talk non-english :p) 17:50:55 <TrueBrain> Yexo: good luck :) 17:51:02 <OwenS> I wish HE or such 100mb/s pipes were cheaper. Dealing directly with a backbone provider would be awesome. Getting a public IPv4 range even more so :P 17:51:09 <Yexo> TrueBrain: just the 5 strings from this commit 17:51:19 <OwenS> (And I mean orders of magnitude cheaper :P ) 17:51:27 <TrueBrain> OwenS: lol ... why you want a public ipv4 RANGE? 17:51:30 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 17:51:32 <TrueBrain> for that we have datacenters :p 17:51:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Datacenters don't make very good places to work :p 17:51:58 <TrueBrain> OwenS: to work you only need 1 IP :) 17:52:07 <TrueBrain> never needed more .. :p 17:52:32 <OwenS> Need? No. Want? Yes. Would be convinient :p 17:52:39 <TrueBrain> for what? :) 17:52:44 <TrueBrain> I really wonder, for what do you need it? 17:52:53 <OwenS> Assigning my virtual machines IPs :p 17:53:06 <TrueBrain> for that, you have datacenters :p 17:53:07 <valhallasw> why would you want to use external ips for that? 17:53:08 <TrueBrain> ghehe 17:53:11 <TrueBrain> use IPv6 ;) 17:53:15 <valhallasw> or NAT :P 17:54:13 <Yexo> "Eerst trein controlepost verwijderd" <- what kind of Dutch is that? 17:54:27 <TrueBrain> potjes nederlands :p 17:54:31 <valhallasw> kill-it-with-fire-dutch :p 17:54:33 <TrueBrain> poor Yexo .. he has work to do :) 17:54:52 <TrueBrain> looks like me trying to translate :p 17:54:57 <Yexo> I don't mind a bit translating, but I hate having to fix translations because somebody is very inconsistent 17:55:03 <TrueBrain> (dyslectic, always fun to read back what I wrote :)) 17:55:31 <TrueBrain> Yexo: I am just happy WT3 shows you it is inconsistent :p 17:56:01 <Yexo> actually the commit diff showed me it was inconsistent :p 17:56:07 <TrueBrain> doh :'( 17:56:08 <TrueBrain> hehe 17:56:10 <TrueBrain> was worth a shot :) 17:56:16 <Yexo> but wt3 makes it easy to look up the already existing translations, and to fix it :) 17:58:19 <OwenS> Other BT complaints: Shitty router which they "upgrade" the firmware on (Crippling features) without asking; The whole Phorm affair; don't support IP multicast; etc 17:58:34 <TrueBrain> poor OwenS 17:58:38 <TrueBrain> I think you should start your own ISP 17:58:46 <TrueBrain> sounds like you make a shot with decent quality :) 17:58:55 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:33 <Yexo> hmm, a decent translations for "sign", I don't like "bord", but maybe it's the best there is 17:59:53 <OwenS> I also wish routers supported SCTP. Being able to use it instead of TCP would rock... 17:59:59 <TrueBrain> Yexo: cant think up a better 18:01:48 <OwenS> While I think about it... Doesn't every IPv6 /48 come with a /64 of multicast addresses? 18:02:17 <TrueBrain> can't remember last time I used multicast .. :) 18:02:40 <OwenS> Would this be related to the fact no ISPs support it? :p 18:02:58 <OwenS> Which is quite silly as it would help them a lot... 18:03:01 <TrueBrain> for what is it ever useful? :) 18:03:09 <TrueBrain> radio and tv .. for that it can be useful :p 18:03:39 <Alberth> brb 18:05:27 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: try multicast on campzone and see if the crew comes hunting you :p 18:05:36 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: there is a good idea :) 18:06:03 <valhallasw> (someone tried that. some routers convert multicast to unicast. chaos ensues) 18:06:15 <OwenS> lol 18:06:27 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: I expected more of them :) 18:06:34 <TrueBrain> we filter all multicast away at router 18:06:54 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.212.114.228.131.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:04 *** Alberth1 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:07:12 <valhallasw> er, wait 18:07:14 <valhallasw> s/routers/switches 18:07:20 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: even worse 18:07:51 <valhallasw> but the new network setup is quite nice.. routed, but allowing for broadcast 18:07:56 <OwenS> WTF is a switch doing interpreting multicast traffic? :p 18:08:03 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I wonder about that too 18:08:08 <TrueBrain> a layer3 switch might do that 18:08:10 <TrueBrain> but even then ... 18:08:18 <valhallasw> acting stupid, probably 18:08:23 <OwenS> But a layer 3 switch is really just a fast but limited router 18:08:32 <TrueBrain> very true; still a switch ;) 18:08:38 <TrueBrain> a l2 switch should never touch traffic in that way 18:08:48 <TrueBrain> just put the multicast on all ports, and let that be it 18:09:33 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: hehe, allowing broadcast is useful yes :p 18:09:40 <TMS> Where is openttd.cfg stored in Linux? 18:09:46 <OwenS> Or, if it's being fancy, IGMP snoop to decide where the multicast should go. But convert to unicast? WTF? Your clients are gonna be confused! 18:09:46 <TrueBrain> TMS: ~/.openttd 18:09:52 <TMS> right, thanks 18:10:29 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: I believe we just called the netops of campzone retards :p :p :p 18:10:51 <TrueBrain> truth is, never been there 18:10:57 <TrueBrain> I don't know the size of the network they try to setup 18:11:04 <TrueBrain> last LAN party I arranged had 100 clients 18:11:15 <TrueBrain> some catalyst 2950, and we were done 18:11:17 <valhallasw> the backbone is fine. It's the people using their own switches :P 18:11:34 <valhallasw> afair 18:11:41 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:50 <OwenS> Thats where you wish Ethernet had TTL 18:11:58 <TrueBrain> it has hopcount 18:12:00 <TrueBrain> :p 18:12:15 <TrueBrain> I once spend 2 hours tracing a packet that was bouncing on and off switches .. 18:12:20 <TrueBrain> not something you wish to do every day :) 18:12:20 <OwenS> lol 18:12:29 <TrueBrain> switched off the complete network to get ride of the packet :p 18:12:59 <TrueBrain> so I agree on the TTL :P 18:12:59 <OwenS> If I were setting up their network, I'd set the hopcount on all packets going to users to be 1 from the end. I.E, don't use your own switches :P 18:13:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: nasty ;) 18:13:32 <TrueBrain> although easy to fix (from the cilent point of view) 18:13:59 <OwenS> Alternatively, set it to 2 from the end so it can't come back :p 18:14:20 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my roommates filled up 500 GB of shit in the last 3 weeks ... 18:15:33 <OwenS> owenshep@Asuka:~$ zfs list 18:15:34 <OwenS> media 381G 1.41T 381G /var/media 18:15:53 <OwenS> I had arround 500GB before I made a mistake with debian-installer :'( 18:16:08 <TrueBrain> auch 18:16:17 <TrueBrain> I allocated 500G for my roommates to use 18:16:23 <TrueBrain> they tend to fill it up ... quickly :s 18:16:31 <valhallasw> rm -rf 18:16:33 <valhallasw> fixed \o/ 18:16:33 <OwenS> (381GB used, 1.41TB free, 381GB "refer", whatever it is) 18:16:57 <TrueBrain> OwenS: free? Not total size? 18:17:07 *** Azrael [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 18:17:24 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: read too much BOFH? 18:17:29 <OwenS> TrueBrain: That gets confusing when a volume has a quota assigned or such :p 18:17:32 <TrueBrain> btw, valhallasw, when is campzone? 18:17:43 <valhallasw> I have no idea 18:17:55 <OwenS> TrueBrain: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/User:valhallasw should explain it :p 18:18:08 <valhallasw> :D 18:18:27 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: 31 jul-10 aug 18:18:34 <TrueBrain> ah, today :p 18:18:36 <OwenS> But, zpool list: media 1.81T 381G 1.44T 20% ONLINE - 18:18:46 <valhallasw> OwenS: outdated \o 18:18:47 <OwenS> 1.81Tb of storage 18:18:47 <TMS> k then 18:18:50 <TMS> this is strange. 18:18:52 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: aren't you at it? :p 18:18:56 <TMS> I tried starting a dedicated server 18:18:58 <valhallasw> no ^__^ 18:19:08 <TMS> and now whenever I try to connect, it tells me "Network Game Syncrhonization Failed" 18:19:14 <valhallasw> I've got *vacation* 18:19:15 <valhallasw> finally 18:19:17 <valhallasw> so 18:19:18 <TrueBrain> hehe 18:19:18 <valhallasw> no 18:19:24 <TrueBrain> how far are you? (study-wise) 18:19:25 <TMS> Why is this? 18:19:25 <valhallasw> I'm not gonna sit in a tent and play computer games 18:19:48 <valhallasw> next year I'm going to finish my bachelors (astrophysics/physics) 18:19:58 <TrueBrain> I remember what you did ;) 18:20:05 <TrueBrain> nice :) I hope you make it :) 18:20:14 <OwenS> Astrophysics/physics? Good choice. What I'm gonna be going for =) 18:20:18 <TrueBrain> already any idea on what you are going to do your bachelor project? 18:20:41 <valhallasw> LOFAR is the only combined project that sounds interesting 18:20:50 <TrueBrain> OwenS: worst part about this is, I did astro for a few years at the same place valhallasw went .. yet we never met :p 18:20:59 <OwenS> lol 18:21:00 <TrueBrain> LOFAR, don't get me started on LOFAR :p 18:21:25 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: but yeah, interesting subject :) 18:22:29 <TrueBrain> OwenS: truth there, I wonder if any of us in here would regornise the other when standing in front of you :p 18:22:48 <TrueBrain> last time in class I had someone saying: OpenTTD is such a cool game, I wish I knew how to get my patch applied! 18:22:50 <OwenS> That is a point :p 18:22:52 <TrueBrain> I had to laugh .. really hard :) 18:22:54 <OwenS> lool 18:23:32 <OwenS> Small world indeed 18:23:35 <TrueBrain> it is that the patch really sucked ..... :p 18:23:41 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: Huygens, 3rd floor, in front of the door is a solution :P 18:23:49 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: yeah, I looked it over once 18:23:55 <valhallasw> I you'd really care :P 18:24:00 <TrueBrain> but forgot your name .. only knew it was with an M 18:24:02 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:24:04 <TrueBrain> my picture isn't up there :p :p :p 18:24:10 <valhallasw> doh. 18:24:34 <TrueBrain> next year I have to pass EM1 and KM1 (yeah, go figure), so I will be around more .. will look :p 18:24:54 <valhallasw> LOL 18:24:57 <OwenS> orudge will probably be delighted to know that St Andrews is the university it looks like I most want to go to :p 18:25:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: I will sure to notify him intime, so he could give you a ..... warm welcome 18:25:21 <TrueBrain> with cold water :p 18:25:45 <OwenS> TrueBrain: He won't be there :p 18:26:08 <OwenS> Well... unless he's doing a postgraduate :P 18:26:53 *** Forconin [~forconin@s0033-0002.dsl.start.no] has joined #openttd 18:26:56 <valhallasw> Afstandsbepaling van M3 (NGC 5272) via RR Lyrae 18:26:58 <valhallasw> dumdumdum. 18:27:06 <TrueBrain> don't peek in my user folder 18:27:07 <TrueBrain> it is rude 18:27:07 <Forconin> Anyone experienced any problems with diff_custom in openttd.cfg lately? 18:27:09 <OwenS> Would always be fun to meet him of course :p 18:27:14 <Forconin> 100% sure i turned off breakdowns 18:27:14 <valhallasw> I'm not. Just googling :P 18:27:16 <TrueBrain> Forconin: yeah, it no longer exists 18:27:19 <Forconin> but my planes are still breaking down 18:27:32 <Forconin> TrueBrain: Aw, crap 18:27:46 <TrueBrain> look at the wiki, it will tell you all you want to know 18:27:53 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: ghehe :) 18:27:57 <Forconin> I looked at the wiki. That's where i found it. 18:28:13 <TrueBrain> start the game with a GUI, and switch it off ;) 18:28:36 <Forconin> no GUI, dedicated server. 18:28:47 <Yexo> Forconin: what wiki page? 18:28:48 <OwenS> Forconin: Copy a cfg from your local machine then 18:28:49 <TrueBrain> Forconin: then I can't help you :) (wish has to do with my lack of knowledge :)) 18:29:04 <Yexo> diff_custom is obsolete since somewhere before 0.7 18:29:12 <Forconin> Ok, thanks guys. :) 18:29:24 <Yexo> it's replaced by the [difficulty] section 18:29:36 <Yexo> but what wiki page did you find it on? 18:30:30 <OwenS> LOL. "At the ISPA Awards, The Internet Villain went to Stephen Conroy and the Australian Government, for continuing to promote network-level blocking despite significant national and international opposition." 18:31:00 <valhallasw> ah, there we go 18:31:11 <TrueBrain> you finally found a picture of me? 18:31:14 <valhallasw> yes 18:31:17 <TrueBrain> should be easy, as I have a few on openttd.org :p 18:31:20 <valhallasw> DLF almanak :p 18:31:20 <valhallasw> doh. 18:31:21 <TrueBrain> show me :) 18:31:22 <valhallasw> :D 18:31:23 <TrueBrain> LOL! 18:31:26 <TrueBrain> almanak, yeah, they have one :) 18:31:34 <TrueBrain> http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/photo_me/ 18:31:36 <TrueBrain> to make it easier ;) 18:31:43 <TrueBrain> some are really old btw :p 18:32:16 <Tekky> Is it true that in 30 minutes the next nightly will be built? 18:32:27 <TrueBrain> Tekky: it is more that 30 minutes ago it started 18:32:33 <TrueBrain> I thikn in 7 minutes it will be done? 18:32:43 <Tekky> Ah, thanks :) 18:37:17 <Rubidium> I vote for it to be finished at 20:46 18:37:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I thought you made it faster? :) 18:37:51 <Rubidium> yeah, from 48 to 46! ;) 18:37:58 <TrueBrain> lol :) 18:39:55 <Rubidium> though I have to agree... the newly added Dutch strings are, except 1, inconsistent with the already existing ones 18:40:01 <Rubidium> bad habell 18:40:35 <Rubidium> "waypoint" is an Indonesian word? 18:40:58 <TrueBrain> they just added it to the dictonary ;) 18:43:06 <OwenS> http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/07/28/hp_packaging_2.jpg <-- ROFLMAO 18:43:27 <TrueBrain> hehe 18:43:42 <OwenS> I also like the Sony one: http://regmedia.co.uk/2009/07/28/hp_packaging_2.jpg 18:43:48 <OwenS> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/07/29/aboxalypse_now/page5.html even 18:44:21 <TrueBrain> lol 18:44:55 <KingJ> Saw that article last night, pretty amazing 18:45:29 <planetmaker> TMS: ap+ is the successor of autopilot 18:46:04 <OwenS> I must say, in delivering my Mini-ITX, eBuyer shipped me it in 4 boxes 4 days. 2 boxes big enough to contain all the parts... 18:47:20 <KingJ> I had dell deliver 3 replacement PDA styluses in a large box, with the 3 styluses tucked under the bottom flap 18:49:08 <Tekky> Yay, the nightly build is completed. :-) Now it is time to test the new feature for distant joins of waypoints. Thanks for your work on implementing it, Rubidium. 18:52:08 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: afaik the campzone is right now 18:52:20 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we established that, yes ;) 18:52:36 <planetmaker> he :-P I'm not through the backlog :-P 18:52:42 <TrueBrain> :) 18:52:46 <TrueBrain> that you read it in so much detail .. ;) 18:52:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I usually just skim it, unless highlighted ;) 18:53:06 <planetmaker> yeah. Usually. Today is unusual :-) 18:53:10 <TrueBrain> Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium Rubidium 18:53:16 <TrueBrain> this is going to be fun :) 18:53:20 <Forconin> hmm 18:53:28 <Forconin> Can't seem to get [Difficulty] to work 18:53:29 <Forconin> weird 18:53:30 <TrueBrain> (I expect a kick now .. somehow :p) 18:53:35 <TrueBrain> Forconin: which version do you use? 18:53:39 <Forconin> 0.7.1 18:53:41 <Forconin> Linux 18:53:45 <Forconin> or 18:53:47 <Forconin> it works 18:53:53 <Forconin> but it resets itself every time i start the server 18:54:02 <Forconin> hm 18:54:03 <TrueBrain> don't load a game ;) 18:54:07 <Forconin> maybe diff_level doing it? 18:54:07 <planetmaker> :-) 18:54:19 <planetmaker> loaded games override cfg 18:54:22 <Rubidium> Forconin: a) is there diff_custom lingering around in the config file? b) is diff_level != 3? 18:54:25 <Forconin> No loading 18:54:30 <Forconin> diff_level it was 18:54:32 <Forconin> thanks 18:54:51 <planetmaker> :-) Seems like easy help... :-P 18:55:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B778F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:16 <Tekky> Oh, in the latest nightly build, OpenTTD crashes when I bulldoze my old single-tile waypoint. However, when I remove the waypoint using the waypoint tool (instead of the bulldoze tool), it doesn't crash. I'll make a ticket on bugs.openttd.org and attach my savegame. 18:58:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75A72.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:29 <planetmaker> :D @ Tekky 18:58:41 <planetmaker> ok, no good point to upgrade, I guess :-) 18:59:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's never a good point to upgrade! 19:00:36 <Tekky> Ah, if I save the game and then load the game again and only then bulldoze the waypoint, the game does not crash. 19:01:16 * Tekky is opening a ticket on bugs.openttd.org 19:01:24 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 19:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so the fault is upon loading old savegames? 19:02:47 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: yup, though saving and reloading will fix it 19:03:05 <Tekky> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, well, the savegame is not that old. It is about one or two weeks old. 19:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "old" being "last savegame version bump" 19:04:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17004 /trunk/src/saveload/ (station_sl.cpp waypoint_sl.cpp): -Fix (r16909): StationRect of loading buoys/waypoints wasn't correctly set when loading 'old' games. 19:07:01 <Tekky> Oh, the bug is fixed already? :) Hehe, Rubidium is fixing bugs faster than I can report them to bugs.openttd.org :) 19:08:12 <Rubidium> Tekky: possibly, I'm not 100% sure 19:08:28 <Rubidium> though you should test r17004 with your savegame 19:09:19 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if you load a post 16909 savegame there should be no problem with the waypoint deletion 19:09:31 <Belugas> but but but... he need to compile it!! 19:09:59 <Rubidium> compiling doesn't take that long 19:10:01 <Tekky> Hmmmm, now I must either await the next nightly build or set up my compiler for building OpenTTD (which I must do soon anzwa 19:10:12 <Tekky> anzwa = anyway (typo) 19:10:27 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong keyboard :p 19:10:48 <Yexo> or download yesterdays nightly and play with that 19:10:48 <TrueBrain> anzwa anzwa anzwa! 19:10:51 <TrueBrain> wassenaar! 19:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... that's too much for me... 19:11:08 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: definitely, wassen is naar 19:11:09 <Tekky> Yexo: Yesterday's nightly has the same problem. 19:11:17 <Yexo> hmm, right 19:11:17 <Belugas> wazzupmaaaaaan? 19:11:42 <Yexo> but just saving the game and reloading is did fix the problem, so why not do that? 19:12:15 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 19:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/Swahili/anzwa <- interesting :p 19:13:09 <TrueBrain> indeed 19:13:14 <TrueBrain> you found a language where it meant something 19:13:16 <TrueBrain> very interesting 19:14:11 *** Tekky_ [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.164.163.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has joined #openttd 19:14:20 <Tekky_> Yexo: Well, it did not crash when I did that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the savegame is not corrupted. 19:14:47 <Yexo> the stationrect is not saved in the savegame, so it's correct as soon as you load it 19:15:00 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 19:15:38 <TrueBrain> what is your nick? 19:16:10 <Tekky_> Mine? I just got disconnected and my IRC client is waiting for my other nick to get kicked. 19:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not yours. 19:16:45 *** Tekky was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [your wish is my command] 19:17:08 <Rubidium> very honoured sys admin, would you please me by taking a look why paste.openttd.org doesn't work? 19:17:32 <TrueBrain> I guess he means me 19:17:45 <Belugas> too precise a request to me honoured 19:17:52 <Tekky_> Ah, thanks Belugas. 19:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: prime example of requesting a secondary thing when that secondary thing is not even suitible to solve the original problem 19:18:15 <Belugas> -i+a 19:18:20 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the VPS is crashed .. completely :p 19:18:22 <TrueBrain> out of memoryu 19:18:27 <TrueBrain> stupid Apache .... 19:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> suitable? 19:18:37 <Belugas> i think 19:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll always mix that up ;) 19:19:23 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: there you go 19:19:51 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: thanks :) 19:19:53 *** Tekky_ is now known as Tekky 19:20:01 <Rubidium> if you want a cookie, you've got to come and get it 19:20:06 <Rubidium> before I eat it ;) 19:20:06 <TrueBrain> tempting 19:20:15 <TrueBrain> but I think you eat it in those 3 hours 19:20:19 * Rubidium slaps the spammer that killed paste.openttd.org 19:21:07 <TrueBrain> yup 19:21:11 <TrueBrain> I should move it to django ... 19:21:13 <TrueBrain> too lazy 19:21:14 <TrueBrain> WT3.1 first 19:22:11 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:39 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejl241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:24:06 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aor43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:24:37 <OwenS> I wish PBS could do path sharing, as if "You can follow this path as long as you do not exceed X speed" 19:25:27 <Belugas> interesting... we have lost all http connectivity in here. we can use ftp, https, but not http protocols 19:25:48 <OwenS> Belugas: Your ISP may use transparent HTTP proxying 19:25:59 <TrueBrain> I think his company does :p 19:26:27 <Rubidium> I remember doing that at high school... to block chat sites 19:26:46 <Rubidium> the French teacher didn't like it 19:27:06 <TrueBrain> she couldn't chat? :) 19:27:21 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: no, we had to look for some castle 19:27:21 <Ammler> OwenS: check for advance signals or such like. 19:28:10 <OwenS> wha? 19:28:40 <Rubidium> for the ones that don't know French, ch?teau is French for castle and in URLs that's usually written as chateau 19:28:45 <OwenS> lol 19:29:00 <TrueBrain> oh, they blocked 'chat' specificly 19:29:02 <OwenS> My highschool blocked wikipedia... 19:29:03 <TrueBrain> now it makes sense 19:30:06 <Ammler> OwenS: a patch from michi_cc to extend yapp 19:30:28 <OwenS> aah 19:30:41 <Rubidium> not to mention that me being part admin caused the backup (of the new sysadmin) to fail for about a year 19:30:48 <Ammler> there is also a similar patch, something like "longer path signal" 19:31:42 <OwenS> I was an admin at my school. The sysadmin did not know this for quite a while. He was not amused :P 19:31:52 <Rubidium> we had a course Arabic, so we had one computer with an Arabic office, so we had Arabic filenames... that broke the backup 19:32:02 <OwenS> lol 19:32:36 <TrueBrain> OwenS: last time I had a punk ass gaining admin rights on the local machine (which, for the record, is dead easy on any windows machine) and failed to tell me that ... well .. lets say he had a really horrible month 19:32:51 <OwenS> Not local machine 19:32:52 <TrueBrain> I don't appreciate it when someone hacks my network and doesn't tell me about it .. then tries to do all innocente and sweet ... 19:32:54 <OwenS> Really bad syadmin :p 19:33:08 <OwenS> TBH place was more secure after I was through with it 19:33:11 <TrueBrain> he had a really horrible month ... really horrible .... 19:33:19 <OwenS> The number of shares which I disabled global write access on was ridiculous 19:33:31 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:36 <TrueBrain> if you find a security problem, fine. REPORT IT 19:33:48 <OwenS> TrueBrain: This was a while ago... 19:33:54 <TrueBrain> asses of 16 year thinking they own the world :p 19:34:17 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 19:34:20 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 19:34:31 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, I became sysop there by walking into the sysops office and showing him how I could shut down the network with 2 commands :p 19:34:50 <Rubidium> and as icing on the cake... if the (new) sysadmin didn't know how to fix something, they asked me 19:35:01 <Alberth1> :) 19:35:01 <TrueBrain> ghehe :) 19:35:02 <OwenS> Our sysadmin was... the kind who would yell at you if you told him that kind of thing 19:35:18 <OwenS> Then report you further up. Then drag you through hell 19:35:28 <Forconin> Hm, question: Will it ever be possible to have more than 8 companies in a game? 19:35:31 <TrueBrain> if you would not tell me right away, I would do the same :) 19:35:37 <TrueBrain> Forconin: yes; you can have 15 19:35:38 <OwenS> If you did tell him 19:35:48 <Forconin> TrueBrain: You can? 19:35:52 <Forconin> Hm, nice. 19:36:03 <TrueBrain> but if you are a bit reasonable sysop, and someone tells you before or right after, you let him help you :) 19:36:14 <TrueBrain> one of those 16 years old once defaced the school website 19:36:15 * Rubidium remembers jolting the sysadmin to get an OS upgrade ;) 19:36:19 <TrueBrain> he came to me within the hour 19:36:22 <TrueBrain> I had a good long laugh :) 19:36:31 <OwenS> lol 19:36:32 <TrueBrain> he had a very good next month ;) 19:37:19 <TrueBrain> I respect that, if someone defaces a website, and tells you about it :) And makes the deface .. well .. funny :p 19:37:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: what? MSDos 3.1 not good enough for you? :p 19:37:44 <OwenS> That reminds me, when I get back, to prod the college sysadmins that they're running a version of apache with lots of security holes 19:37:55 <Rubidium> ... buying a *completely* new network, including computers, and then install Windows 95 on then when Windows XP was about to be released 19:37:58 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you can remove 'a version of' 19:38:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ghehe :) 19:38:18 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Theres running apache. Then theres running a 1 year old version of apache. 19:38:23 <Rubidium> the computers came with Windows 2000 19:38:25 <OwenS> Apache/win32 for that matter... 19:38:43 <TrueBrain> either way .. I was about to write the import of WT3.1 ... 19:38:56 <OwenS> I also should complain about the fact that they can't deploy .net properly 19:39:06 <OwenS> (Their deployment has all the language files broken...) 19:39:31 <Eddi|zuHause> fuck... i think the HD is completely dead now 19:39:53 <OwenS> Final complaint: They still have machines with IE6... 19:39:54 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: didn't I told you to send it back? :p 19:40:07 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that is easier said than done 19:40:11 <TrueBrain> OwenS: rolling out .NET in a sane way is IMPOSSIBLE 19:40:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: same as deploying both Office 2003 and Office 2007 19:40:23 <TrueBrain> which is impossible :s 19:40:36 <TrueBrain> by documentation only Outlook should be the problem .. in reality, it is much bigger 19:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and from "i can't read a sector" to "disk doesn't start up" is kind of a huge jump so suddenly... 19:40:51 <TrueBrain> at the subject, Acrobat Reader 9 can't be used with roaming profiles (Windows AD) 19:40:56 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Not really. "I can't read a sector" means disk is almost dead 19:41:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: pick it up, 10cm above the ground, drop it 19:41:09 <TrueBrain> try again :p 19:41:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: it was the replacement disk :p 19:41:26 <OwenS> lol 19:42:02 <OwenS> Speaking of Office 2007. I was not pleased when said school sysadmin rolled out Office 2007. Without leaving the prior version there. Two weeks before a coursework deadline 19:42:20 <TrueBrain> :s 19:42:22 <TrueBrain> that is just bad timing 19:42:46 <OwenS> Well, correction: Two weeks before everyone's coursework deadlines 19:43:04 <OwenS> In one month there was a two week holiday and all the coursework would be over. Could he not wait? ... 19:43:28 <TrueBrain> that said: there is never a good timing for such upgrades 19:44:04 <TrueBrain> I once tried to do a network upgrade ... I requested a timeslot for it ... there was NO timeslot for it granted within the next 4 weeks, including weekends and evenings (up to 21:00, I refuse to work after that) 19:44:24 <TrueBrain> (and then you need to know me .. I just pulled the plug the other day and did the replacement :p) 19:44:35 <TrueBrain> "yeah, it failed, it was good we had the replacement ready!" 19:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Not really. "I can't read a sector" means disk is almost dead <- yes, but they are kind of completely different failure classes... one is the failure of the magnetic part, and one is the failure of the mechanic part... 19:45:49 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: stricly, the first can also be mechanic 19:45:52 <TrueBrain> but I tend to agree with you ;) 19:47:44 <OwenS> I tend to run a SMART analysis every now and again so I know "Hmm, better get a second spare in for the RAID array" 19:50:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17005 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add [NoAI]: AIAbstractList::SORT_ASCENDING / SORT_DESCENDING 19:51:07 <OwenS> Thinking of it... I ought to learn how to do Linux softraid rebuilds :p 19:51:39 <TrueBrain> haha, not so easy as one might hope :p 19:51:46 <OwenS> Heh 19:52:01 <OwenS> So not like Solaris ZFS ones - put the new disk in, and tell it taht it's a replacement :p 19:52:19 <TrueBrain> well .. first of all, you need hotswap for that 19:52:21 <TrueBrain> so SATA :p 19:52:25 <TrueBrain> second ... no :p 19:52:37 <OwenS> Solaris ZFS you can even have hot spares in :p 19:52:52 <TrueBrain> yeah, we call it RAID-5 19:52:54 <TrueBrain> but okay 19:53:03 <TrueBrain> well, not by definition 19:53:12 <TrueBrain> hmm .. no, that is bullshit 19:53:15 <TrueBrain> you can always have a hot spare 19:53:33 <OwenS> ZFS does RAID-Z, which is like RAID-5 but faster :p 19:53:44 <TrueBrain> yeah, ZFS is so great :p 19:53:46 <TrueBrain> lol 19:54:05 <OwenS> Available on OS X, FreeBSD and Solaris... but not Linux... 19:54:05 <TrueBrain> but yeah, linux softraid needs ... knowing :p 19:54:36 <TrueBrain> last time we had a drive that failed 19:54:39 <TrueBrain> it just took down the whole machine 19:54:51 <TrueBrain> the softraid kept on trying to access the drive .. over and over and over and over 19:55:33 <OwenS> Reminds me of the mobo I had on which the southbridge went funky 19:55:46 <OwenS> That was fun to diagnose 19:55:48 <TrueBrain> OwenS: sure you are not Bjarni? 19:55:54 <OwenS> lol 19:56:04 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I mainly meant the nightlies. A public server needs those revisions :-) 19:56:23 <OwenS> My desktop has it's RAID array split between a parallel and serial ATA drive as a result of that... 19:56:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: for the server the fix doesn't matter, because it won't get it, unless you load a pre r16909 savegame 19:57:05 <OwenS> Controller gave the same indications as for a failed HD... 19:57:11 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure it does 19:57:24 <planetmaker> oh. pre 909 19:57:25 <Rubidium> planetmaker: why? 19:57:26 <planetmaker> no. 19:57:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17006 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_map.hpp ai_map.hpp.sq squirrel_export.awk): -Fix (r17005): gcc compile failure 19:57:34 <planetmaker> we're at 973 19:57:59 <Rubidium> and I also said that loading a pre 16909 savegame in 16704, saving it and reloading works around the problem too 19:59:06 <TrueBrain> utils.TellExtensions("SubProjectInitialize", subProject, argv = argv) 19:59:08 <TrueBrain> TypeError: TellExtensions() got multiple values for keyword argument 'argv' 19:59:10 <TrueBrain> django can be so retarted 20:02:37 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Meh. At least it's not C++ template errors 20:02:43 <OwenS> 20 lines before you even get there :p 20:06:56 <OwenS> Im sure OpenTTD developers are used to C++ errors though :p 20:08:31 <TrueBrain> you learn to read through them :) 20:10:37 <OwenS> Or rather ignore the "Instantiated from here, instantiated from there, instantiated from over here" 20:10:54 <TrueBrain> # Doesn't it make you sad, to see so much love denied, see nothing but a shadowman inside 20:11:01 <TrueBrain> OwenS: exactly! 20:11:26 <Alberth1> and substitute your own nice template type name back in the error mesg before reading it :p 20:14:27 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!] 20:22:03 <TrueBrain> WHIIIIEEEEEeeeeeee, importing english.txt works :) 20:22:32 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has joined #openttd 20:25:31 * planetmaker hugs TrueBrain :-) 20:25:33 <planetmaker> nice! 20:26:53 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:27:18 <TrueBrain> enough creativity for today :) 20:27:26 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 20:28:54 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:31:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. that I receive AM is starting to be annoying me ... even when playing sound I hear the radio over the boxes :s 20:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hehe, i had that too ;) 20:38:06 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@84.20.108.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@128.189.72.196] has joined #openttd 20:43:32 <Zuu> Whoo, dragable waypoints :-) 20:43:41 <TrueBrain> yeah, Rubidium is the best :) 20:44:09 <Zuu> Saw on the logs what was to come, and today we got to test it. :-) 20:45:44 <OwenS> Whoa. OpenTTD at 5spf. Didn't think I'd ever see that happen 20:45:49 <OwenS> (Yes, thats seconds per frame) 20:45:57 <TrueBrain> does it have a fps? 20:46:17 <OwenS> I don't know the actual FPS... but it's beyond unusable 20:46:30 <TrueBrain> no worries, it has a fps :) 20:46:43 <TrueBrain> tps, in our case :p (ticks) 20:53:46 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aor43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 21:05:35 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 21:07:51 *** Azrael [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:58 <Belugas> holly macaroni!!! 21:12:02 * Belugas runs home 21:12:04 <TrueBrain> where? 21:12:05 <TrueBrain> where? 21:12:07 <TrueBrain> oeh, good luck 21:12:10 <TrueBrain> can I suggest to take the car? 21:14:50 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:16:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-9-22-43.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 21:19:11 <TrueBrain> boring in here 21:20:14 <frosch123> if you are bored, sometimes it helps to highlight sacro 21:20:15 <TrueBrain> "OpenTTD won't open!" <- /me gniffels at the name 21:20:16 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:23 <TrueBrain> Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro Sacro 21:20:56 <Aali> Mushroom Mushroom 21:21:03 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 21:21:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 21:21:05 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:24:59 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:26:30 *** worldemar [~tsukimiya@188.122.242.63] has joined #openttd 21:26:53 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.204.193] has quit [Quit: edgepro: Sanity is a full time job.] 21:27:29 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 21:31:34 <Rubidium> DaleStan: http://rbijker.net/openttd/grfcodec_make_makefiles_like_grfcodec_deletes_some_files.diff reworks the grfcodec makefiles to be like nforenum's. In effect it adds Makefile.local.sample so you can override Makefile stuff without changing one of the versioned Makefiles. It also improves out-of-the-box MinGW compilation 21:32:02 <Rubidium> whether cygwin compilation still works I don't know; I don't have that installed 21:34:36 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-168-197-48.range86-168.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:57 <Rubidium> the compile farm also works with those Makefiles ( http://binaries.openttd.org/extra/grfcodec/r4/ ) 21:35:09 <Rubidium> the only question is whether all the right files are included in the bundle 21:35:35 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: did you manual put the files there? Else the index is broken :( 21:36:23 <TrueBrain> or you didn't have installed the proper callback script? :) 21:36:28 <TrueBrain> (too lazy to check :p) 21:36:32 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: no, I disabled the callback script 21:36:35 <TrueBrain> ah ;) 21:36:57 <TrueBrain> pfew ;) 21:40:39 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.204.193] has joined #openttd 21:42:11 <TrueBrain> good night all 21:42:21 <Rubidium> night TrueBrain 21:42:26 <OwenS> night 21:42:35 <Zuu> Good night TrueBrain 21:43:03 <Zuu> I'm soon of to the beach. :-) 21:51:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17007 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt: -Fix (r15896): WT2 reverted the ISO code of Serbian 21:52:16 <OwenS> Aww HLL 21:52:27 <OwenS> Who invented Boost::Bind? WHO? BECAUSE IT GENERATES THE MOST OBTUSE ERRORS 21:55:05 <Rubidium> OwenS: Peter Dimov, David Abrahams or Multi Media Ltd. 21:55:49 <OwenS> "/usr/include/boost/bind/bind_template.hpp", line 90: Where: Instantiated from boost::_bi::bind_t<void, boost::_mfi::mf3<void,::smart_ban_plugin, std::pair<libtorrent::piece_block,::smart_ban_plugin::block_entry>, int, const libtorrent::disk_io_job&>, boost::_bi::list4<boost::_bi::value<boost::shared_ptr<::smart_ban_plugin>>, boost::_bi::value<std::pair<const libtorrent::piece_block,::smart_ban_plugin::block_entry>>, 21:55:51 <OwenS> boost::arg<1>, boost::arg<2>>>::operator()<int, libtorrent::disk_io_job>(int&, const libtorrent::disk_io_job&). <-- I mean, seriously? 21:56:27 <Rubidium> never seen GCC's STL ones? 21:56:29 *** Zuu [~Zuu@128.189.72.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:56:39 <OwenS> Rubidium: Yes. They're less obtuse! 21:59:11 <Rubidium> you can scrap David Abrahams from the list of suspects 22:00:18 <Rubidium> @calc 39/1255 22:00:18 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.0310756972112 22:01:30 <Rubidium> 3% comments, well... if you may classify them as comments; I'd classify 11 (<1%) as comments (for the initial commit of bind.hpp) 22:03:09 <Rubidium> @calc 56/1733 22:03:10 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 0.0323139065205 22:03:25 <Rubidium> oh, it did improve slightly for trunk's version ;) 22:04:46 <OwenS> I will never use Boost willingly. Theres using templates... and theres abusing them to a nonproductive extent 22:05:15 <OwenS> I don't doubt it's got lots of great features. But 10 page errors are not my idea of fun 22:05:39 <OwenS> And, tbh, most of the useful stuff is in Qt anyway 22:08:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17008 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Fix [FS#3061]: Resize matrix in station build window vertically according to font height. 22:14:39 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.] 22:16:58 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:19:09 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 22:19:28 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 22:23:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17009 /branches/0.7/ (7 files in 5 dirs): 22:23:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk/prepare for release: 22:23:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Vehicles would wait "very long" when they had nothing to unload and gradual loading was disabled [FS#3054] (r16933) 22:26:45 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 22:30:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17010 /tags/0.7.2/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 0.7.2 22:31:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17011 /trunk/ (14 files in 4 dirs): 22:31:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: Add AIBaseStation as a parentclass for AIStation and AIWaypoint, and move GetName, SetName and GetLocation to AIBaseStation 22:31:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Remove (nearly) all references to WaypointID and replace them with StationID 22:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> those releases really drown in here :p 22:31:58 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDD2F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Raubgut ist vom Umtausch ausgeschlossen!] 22:37:30 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-59-168.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:38:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17012 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_basestation.cpp ai_basestation.hpp ai_basestation.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIBaseStation::GetConstructionDate 22:39:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has joined #openttd 22:41:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:59 *** Alberth1 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:48:27 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff91c.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:26 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:06:58 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:09:28 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 23:14:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17013 /trunk/src/script/squirrel_helper.hpp: 23:14:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#3074]: concatenating strings in Squirrel when non-ASCII strings were 23:14:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: received from OpenTTD failed. The number of bytes in an UTF-8 encoded string 23:14:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: isn't always the same as the number of characters in the decoded (into wchars) 23:14:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: string 23:23:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17014 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.cpp ai_engine.hpp ai_engine.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AIEngine::GetDesignDate 23:33:19 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:34:01 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B770F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:36:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-9-22-43.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 23:39:22 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:40:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B778F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:10 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 23:54:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17015 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_content.cpp: -Fix [FS#3075]: infinite recursion in content dependency checking 23:59:29 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]