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00:00:28 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 00:23:59 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBB2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 00:28:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17016 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.cpp ai_company.hpp ai_company.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: AICompany::Get/Set PresidentGender 00:33:58 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-144-20-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:07 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@DSL01.83.171.164.163.ip-pool.NEFkom.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]] 00:36:46 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:54:22 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:57:45 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177235176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 01:00:14 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:00:44 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-147-189-211.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:01:21 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.158.129] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0-rc2] 01:01:22 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:01:29 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has joined #openttd 01:01:43 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 01:02:51 *** Zorni [~zorn@e177235176.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:19 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177236049.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:52 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.4.182] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.1/20090715094852]] 02:02:06 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 02:12:31 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-147-189-211.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:41 *** TMS [~Will@75-136-132-146.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Time pingout] 02:36:04 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 03:08:11 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:39 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:19:57 *** KingJ is now known as kingj 03:38:56 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:58 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:49:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B770F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:49:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 04:14:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:53:57 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:59:53 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:25:03 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:36 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:16 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:37:51 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:38:05 *** TinoDid [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 07:41:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:44:12 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:05:31 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 08:33:59 <Priski> 0.7 nearing release :) 08:35:00 <Rubidium> 0.7 of what? 08:38:17 <Rubidium> or is it that glx was not here? 08:40:12 *** Rubidium changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, translator: translator, server list: servers, nightly-builds: nightly, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only 08:52:38 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 09:01:28 <Rubidium> hi Pikka 09:10:08 <TrueBrain> morning all 09:11:20 <Rubidium> morning... you're late, it's already after I've broken fasting 09:11:30 <TrueBrain> you are early 09:15:52 <Rubidium> and Ido has overtaken Urdu in the race to the 'missing strings' leader board ;) 09:16:16 <Pikka> hello 09:16:43 <TrueBrain> wow. someone translated 23 strings? I am so impressed 09:17:03 <Rubidium> that's 5 more than a minute ago 09:17:53 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: if there are only commands in a string, is it then safe to assume the translator doesn't need to translate, and can we pre-translate a string? 09:19:06 <Rubidium> 'only' commands as strictly as "no characters between } and {, : and { and } and end-of-line? 09:19:22 <Rubidium> if so, then yes 09:19:23 <TrueBrain> as in: {YELLOW}{WAYPOINT} 09:19:34 <Rubidium> that's safe 09:19:48 <TrueBrain> and shit like: STR_NULL, STR_EMPTY, STR_BLACK, ... 09:20:51 <Rubidium> {YELLOW}{STATION} {STATIONFEATURES} probably too, but STR_FORMAT_DATE_* probably not (order differs per country) 09:21:40 <TrueBrain> well, pretranslating simply means it is translated, but a translator can change it later on if he likes :p 09:23:49 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but it is way more likely for a translator to do the right thing when he encounters STR_FORMAT_DATE_* during translating than when in game wondering whether the date format can be changed and assuming it is hardcodec 09:24:03 <TrueBrain> true .. in that case we can't do any string 09:24:04 <Rubidium> +| 09:24:17 <TrueBrain> as STR_FORMAT_DATE_TINY is not different than STR_BLACK_STATION 09:25:06 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: STR_BLACK_STATION can only have 1 order, STR_FORMAT_DATE_TINY can have 6 09:25:18 <TrueBrain> that is true 09:25:30 <TrueBrain> so everything with only colour or single positional commands can be pre-translated 09:25:33 <TrueBrain> will look into that then ;) 09:29:48 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 09:35:13 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:40:53 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:54:51 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c3265.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 10:00:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77481.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there a way to tell the kernel that i have a "hole" in my memory? 10:01:37 <TrueBrain> haha, after broken HD you now also have broken memory? :) 10:01:43 <TrueBrain> not your best month, is it? :) 10:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i've probably had that for years :p 10:05:14 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0511.1/0425.html ? 10:05:49 <Rubidium> oh, http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=Documentation/bad_memory.txt;h=df84162132028d6771fc0da0649f54158bdac93c;hb=HEAD might even be more useful 10:06:45 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:58 <TrueBrain> the power of just ... searching ;) 10:06:59 <TrueBrain> ghehe 10:07:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17017 /trunk/src/widget.cpp: -Fix (r17008): Setup padding for WWT_MATRIX. 10:07:32 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 10:12:09 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: rather knowing that there was a patch ;) 10:12:31 <TrueBrain> :) 10:12:36 * Rubidium used to read lkml, now I only occasionally skim it 10:18:00 *** kingj is now known as KingJ 10:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not really in the mood of compiling a kernel 10:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll try the memmap method 10:19:14 *** PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has joined #openttd 10:19:32 <TrueBrain> run to the store and get for 40 euro new ram, twice as many as you hav enow? 10:19:53 <Eddi|zuHause> not really worth it, and kind of above my budget... 10:20:07 <TrueBrain> fair enough :) 10:20:15 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: won't happen for me :( 10:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd probably get an entirely new computer 10:20:34 <Rubidium> my computer doesn't like more memory ;) 10:20:47 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: mine neither :( 10:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i only have 1GB, and my board supports 3 10:22:14 <Rubidium> for what it's worth, my computer doesn't have enough memory for KDevelop 10:23:04 <Rubidium> but then, it using 5+GiB isn't nice either 10:25:17 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B80AE3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B823D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll try a reboot now... 10:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> someone pray for me ;) 10:35:54 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77481.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:04 *** PeterT [~Peter@217.20.134.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17018 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1833]: Take width of station type names into account in station builder window. 10:39:50 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 10:42:00 *** ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 10:42:30 <welshdragon> Can i delete AI companies from a single player or multiplayer game? 10:43:04 <Alberth> buy them 10:43:20 <welshdragon> aah, ok 10:43:40 <Yexo> TrueBrain: how is the ai doc main page generated? (where does the text come from) 10:43:42 * welshdragon doesn't really want to buy them, but will create a new company 10:44:01 <TrueBrain> Yexo: the general doc? Else you need to give me an url :) 10:44:07 <Yexo> http://noai.openttd.org/docs/index.html 10:44:15 <Yexo> the "Documentation can differ from the API in your binaries!" and lines below 10:44:27 <TrueBrain> is inserted by some script 10:44:28 <TrueBrain> why? 10:44:35 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:57 <Yexo> because I'd like to add a link there 10:45:04 <TrueBrain> gimme the details :p 10:45:09 <Yexo> one moment 10:45:42 <TrueBrain> cat annotated.html | sed 's#Here are the data structures with brief descriptions:#Documentation can differ from the API in your binaries!<br>The NoAI revision which match this documentation is @@revision<br>Latest binaries: <a href="http://www.openttd.org/download-trunk">http://www.openttd.org/download-trunk</a><br>Here are the data structures with brief descriptions:#g' | sed s/@@revision/$revision/ > index.html 10:45:45 <TrueBrain> is what happens 10:48:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17019 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Doc: add AI API changelog 10:49:08 <Yexo> there you have the details :p. A link to that new page would be nice 10:49:21 <TrueBrain> then we have to wait till it generates tonight 10:49:22 *** Cybert1nus is now known as Cybertinus 10:49:23 <TrueBrain> then I can correct 10:49:28 <Yexo> that's no problem 10:49:39 <TrueBrain> which means you need to remind me ;) 10:49:53 <Yexo> filename to link to is "ai__changelog_8hpp.html" 10:50:11 <Yexo> why can't you change the script now? 10:51:56 <TrueBrain> if you are sure about the filename, I can 10:51:56 *** goodger [~ben@host86-156-58-228.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:53:45 <Yexo> I'm sute about that 10:54:24 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.23.196.30] has joined #openttd 10:55:54 <TrueBrain> we will see tonight ;) 10:56:19 <Yexo> thanks :) 10:57:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B749A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm not entirely sure whether that actually solved anything 10:59:25 <Yexo> welshdragon: in a singleplayer game, use "stop_ai <companynum>" in the console 10:59:34 <Yexo> it'll remove an AI company completely 11:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> how about allowing two AIs to run in coop mode? :p 11:05:24 <Rubidium> coop without communication? 11:05:26 <Yexo> I see no reason to allow that 11:06:07 * TrueBrain smacks Eddi|zuHause with a brick or somethng :) 11:07:12 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:07:30 * TrueBrain feels sorry and fill Eddi|zuHause with kisses :) 11:07:45 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's fine, i totally deserved that :p 11:12:03 <frosch123> hmm, which ghost is translating greek all the time 11:13:18 <TrueBrain> isn't the name in the commit logs? :p 11:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> greek - 1 changes by kinglee 11:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> greek - 303 changes by fumantsu 11:14:44 <frosch123> but wt3 still says "needs translator", or does it need at more than one? 11:15:09 <TrueBrain> WT3 says that if less than 90% is translated 11:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's an automatic calculation 11:15:29 <TrueBrain> (or no translators) 11:15:30 <Rubidium> frosch123: <90% untranslated || translators == 0 => "needs translator" 11:15:36 <frosch123> ok :) 11:15:51 <TrueBrain> nobody could find out a better way of indicating when there is a need for extra translators :) 11:16:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no cool business metrics for that? 11:21:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what business metrics do you propose? 11:21:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't study business... 11:21:55 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B823D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!] 11:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i only got a glimpse of that stuff in software engineering 11:22:15 <Rubidium> so it could very well be business metrics 11:22:40 <welshdragon> Yexo: thank you 11:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so i know there exists stuff like that, which one could research for a proper check ;) 11:35:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B766C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B749A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> nope, this didn't help a bit... 11:37:01 <TrueBrain> remove the faulty memory bank? 11:37:27 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 11:37:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there's more at fault than just the memory... 11:38:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i've suspected the north bridge or the graphics card at least once, too 11:39:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the majority of hangs seem to happen when playing video 11:39:32 <TrueBrain> then I suspect your PSU 11:39:47 <TrueBrain> too unstable +5 can cause significant crashes on any computer 11:40:11 <TrueBrain> a friend of mine solved her problems by removing a few USB devices ;) 11:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i don't really have any replacement PSUs 11:41:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but insufficient power could explain a few oddities, maybe... 11:41:44 <TrueBrain> it always results in random powerlosses to devices 11:41:46 <TrueBrain> HDs dropping 11:41:48 <TrueBrain> screens going blank 11:41:50 <TrueBrain> reboots 11:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> aren't there sensors for that? 11:42:05 <TrueBrain> you can monitor your voltage 11:42:15 <TrueBrain> but in general there is nothing warning you for those things 11:42:38 <TrueBrain> in my experience it is the +5V which becomes highly unstable .. but I guess the same can happen to the +12V or even the CPU voltage (3.3V normally :p) 11:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... KSensors only lists CPU Temp... 11:47:24 *** worldemar [~tsukimiya@188.122.242.63] has quit [Quit: An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value indicates failure.] 11:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> argh... i hate everything... 11:49:05 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: if you want to know if that is the problem, remove as many devices as possible 11:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like my mouse wheel 11:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> when i scroll up, it scrolls up 11:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> when i scroll down, it scrolls up 11:49:35 <TrueBrain> ghehe, have had that once too :) 11:49:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I think you really need a complete replacement :p 11:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but the majority of all actions are scrolling down... 11:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, besides the mouse wheel, the RMB doesn't work... 11:52:28 <Rubidium> a socialist mouse ;) 11:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really have many non-essential devices... 11:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i only have two HDDs connected, one of which contains / and the other one /home 11:56:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17020 /trunk/src/waypoint_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Recenter viewport of waypoint-gui after moving the sign. 11:58:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:59:12 <TrueBrain> you are so screwed :p 12:05:32 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:06:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:20 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@88.193.124.243] has joined #openttd 12:07:00 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [] 12:09:06 *** xmakina [~xmakina@87.114.141.32.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.160.97] has joined #openttd 12:19:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.210.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.160.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.97] has joined #openttd 12:38:36 *** krushia [~krushia@pool-71-168-96-174.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:45 *** ecke_ [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 12:42:39 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17021 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use nested widgets for the main window. 12:43:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17022 /trunk/src/console_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use nested widgets for the console window. 13:02:12 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:02:15 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.134.208] has joined #openttd 13:05:28 <TrueBrain> the Django project has too many open bugs :s 13:06:19 <Rubidium> name me one (big) project that hasn't got open bugs 13:06:25 <TrueBrain> open bugs, okay 13:06:33 <TrueBrain> 1500 open bugs 13:06:34 <TrueBrain> not so much 13:07:30 <Rubidium> 3618 open bugs (for gcc) 13:07:44 <TrueBrain> given the size of gcc, that might be in the idea of acceptable 13:07:49 <TrueBrain> given the size of Django .. not so much 13:08:49 <TrueBrain> and at the very least someone can assign statuses to it 13:08:51 <TrueBrain> not 'New' ;) 13:12:27 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-242.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:12:34 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 13:16:25 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 13:20:09 <Alberth> they do have a status between 'new' and 'working on it'? 13:20:32 <Rubidium> usually there's a confirmed 13:20:48 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM] 13:21:25 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:22:21 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@88.193.124.243] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 13:23:06 <TrueBrain> stupid Django seems unable to do mass-deletes :p 13:25:19 <Rubidium> why do I associate mass-deletes with physics? 13:25:33 <TrueBrain> n oidea 13:28:29 <Alberth> no doubt there are very interesting physical effects when you flip the value of a lot of bits on the HD :p 13:30:01 <TrueBrain> one of the best things about C++, Python, ... really is the throwing of errors 13:30:08 <TrueBrain> avoids so much complexity of checking error results and shit 13:32:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@212.183.134.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:04 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-242.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [Quit: I'll get you next episode, Inspector Gadget! NEXT EPISODE!] 14:00:34 *** xmakina [~xmakina@87.114.141.32.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [] 14:33:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 14:39:04 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 14:47:58 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DD2DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:46 *** tom22 [~tompoole2@92.28.151.126] has joined #openttd 15:03:43 *** tom22 [~tompoole2@92.28.151.126] has quit [] 15:26:19 *** DR_Jekyll [DrJekyll@p57B0EA0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:31:18 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0F3C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17023 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp widget_type.h): -Revert (r16839): FillNestedArray() was less obsolete than anticipated. 15:49:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17024 /trunk/src/ (window.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Allow InitNested to be done in two parts. 15:53:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17025 /trunk/src/waypoint_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Waypoint window using all the new goodies (based on work by Rubidium). 16:11:22 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 16:13:06 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen 16:17:44 <Yexo> one of the best things about C++, Python, ... really is the throwing of errors <- that really depends on how you use it, I came upon this code yesterday: http://pastebin.org/5773 16:18:05 <TrueBrain> Yexo: LOL! 16:18:06 <TrueBrain> what?! 16:18:09 <TrueBrain> that is insane :) 16:19:20 <Yexo> that's the quality of code I've been working with over the last two weeks 16:19:29 <TrueBrain> that .... sucks :s 16:20:01 <Yexo> catch (Exception err) { throw err; } <- also very nice, as you won't can't see the previous call stack 16:20:13 <TrueBrain> hehe 16:20:18 <TrueBrain> 'throw' alone would be much better ;) 16:20:25 <Yexo> indeed 16:21:37 <valhallasw> related to throw.... 16:22:07 * valhallasw searches reddit for the link 16:22:39 <valhallasw> http://www.smallshire.org.uk/sufficientlysmall/2009/07/31/in-c-throw-is-an-expression/ 16:23:13 *** |tux_mark_5| [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 16:25:08 <Yexo> That makes me wonder about constructs like this: http://pastebin.org/5774 16:26:07 <Rubidium> undefined 16:26:46 <Yexo> and if the first line had read "int x = 3;"? 16:26:49 <TrueBrain> I think it is a stupid thing to write 16:26:56 <Yexo> it certainly is :) 16:27:00 <Rubidium> Yexo: 3 16:27:30 <valhallasw> Yexo: before the actual assignment, the throw is executed 16:27:32 <valhallasw> I think 16:27:42 <Yexo> that seems a logical explanation 16:27:53 <TrueBrain> I somehow doubt it is defined by any standard :p 16:28:09 <Rubidium> I think it is defined 16:28:32 <Rubidium> simply because throw is kind-of a goto 16:28:51 <TrueBrain> good argument why it would be defined by a standard ;) 16:28:53 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:08 <TrueBrain> I think it says something about: implementation depending 16:30:41 <valhallasw> "a throw-expression which is an integral constant expression of integer type that evaluates to zero" 16:31:01 <valhallasw> which doesnt answer the question, of course 16:31:28 <TrueBrain> if (throw a) { printf("boe\n"); } 16:31:30 <TrueBrain> ghehe :) 16:31:54 <TrueBrain> int x = 1 << throw a; 16:32:12 <Yexo> int a = throw x ? thow y : throw z; 16:32:13 <TrueBrain> good to hide stuff in your code :) 16:32:35 <TrueBrain> printf("Welcome to my game, I am now going to ", throw you, " a nice ball") 16:32:57 <Yexo> :D 16:33:05 <Rubidium> A throw-expression is of type void. Code that executes a throw-expression is said to ``throw an exception;'' code that subsequently gets control is called a ``handler.' 16:33:59 <TrueBrain> int x = (void) 16:34:03 <TrueBrain> what does that do? :) 16:34:38 <Rubidium> foo.cpp:3: error: void value not ignored as it ought to be 16:35:15 <TrueBrain> but with 'throw' it does work, so I wonder what it gets assigned :p 16:36:13 <Rubidium> no, with throw that doesn't work, at least not with my gcc 16:36:37 <TrueBrain> int y = x > 4 ? x : throw std::out_of_range; <- but that does work? 16:36:48 <Rubidium> yes 16:36:49 <TrueBrain> I mean, then something doesn't start to add up 16:36:55 <TrueBrain> if int x = throw bla doesn't work 16:36:57 <TrueBrain> but the above does 16:37:21 <Rubidium> int x = throw => certainly wrong 16:37:52 <Rubidium> int x = a ? b : throw => simple way of throwing and doing assignment 16:38:26 <TrueBrain> weirdest syntax ever .. sometimes it is an expression, sometimes it is not 16:38:32 <TrueBrain> I wonder what MSVC thinks of it :p 16:40:12 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: it is an expression in all cases 16:40:14 <Yexo> int x = a ? b : throw <- that doesn't compile for me 16:40:34 <Yexo> test.cpp:12: error: expected primary-expression before ';' token 16:41:12 <Rubidium> int main(int argc, char *argv[]) { int x = argc ? argc : throw; } <- works for me 16:42:17 <Yexo> ah, yes, that works 16:43:01 <Yexo> int y = x > 4 ? x : throw std::out_of_range; <- I was literally following that page, but throw std::out_of_range is not valid, it should be throw std::out_of_range("message") 16:44:38 <Zuu> Someone knows how to make a link to a category page as an internal wiki-link? 16:45:11 <KingJ> Extra : before the Category:XXX I think 16:45:14 <KingJ> e.g 16:45:19 <Zuu> [[Category:Compiling_OpenTTD|Compiling OpenTTD]] does not work. The link does not even appear 16:45:25 <KingJ> [[:Category:XXX]] 16:45:30 <Zuu> Ok 16:46:27 <Zuu> Thanks, that worked. 16:46:37 <KingJ> Excellent 16:46:51 <valhallasw> test.cpp:2: error: third operand to the conditional operator is of type 'void', but the second operand is neither a throw-expression nor of type 'void' 16:47:08 <valhallasw> for int i = argc < 2 ? 1 : (void) 0; 16:48:20 <TrueBrain> so it has special code to allow throw-expressions, cool :) 16:49:51 <Eddi|zuHause> and what exactly is the advantage over "if (~a) throw; x=b"? 16:50:14 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, your method is more readable 16:50:21 <TrueBrain> so that sounds like a terrible idea :p 16:55:15 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you can use the ? in a "expression-list of a mem-initializer" and not the if 16:57:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17026 /trunk/ (config.lib configure): -Fix [FS#3076]: "[bd]ash"-ism in configure 16:59:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17027 /trunk/readme.txt: -Document: that Solaris needs gmake instead of make and generalise the compiling section a bit 16:59:43 <valhallasw> and besides, there's no way to win an obfuscated code contest with your construct, Eddi|zuHause 16:59:56 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-144-20-57.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:00:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17028 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Fix (r17019): a function and class were not mentioned in the changelog 17:00:16 <OwenS> Lag: 666ms. Devlish!:P 17:00:24 <TrueBrain> you guys commit too much lately 17:00:27 <TrueBrain> it starts to annoy me 17:00:29 <TrueBrain> I should fix that ... 17:00:37 <valhallasw> commit limits \o/ 17:01:22 *** DR_Jekyll [DrJekyll@p57B0EA0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 17:01:34 <Rubidium> valhallasw: bad idea, rather feed TrueBrain more sugar :) 17:02:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B766C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:27 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: fetch your ice-cream-with-too-much-sugar at HL400! (as soon as we start doing shows again, at least) 17:02:35 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: lol 17:02:43 <TrueBrain> have seen the 'show' one too many times, sorry 17:03:09 *** |tux_mark_5| [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:04:20 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 17:04:46 <valhallasw> ok 17:04:48 <valhallasw> xs4all, die plz 17:05:07 <TrueBrain> although it does remind me the time one of those tanks had a faulty release valve, and put our whole classroom full witha nice cloud of cold air 17:05:10 <TrueBrain> for about 10cm high :p 17:05:40 * Rubidium wonders what HL400 is 17:05:46 <Rubidium> whether it's the tire 17:05:50 <Rubidium> or the mixer 17:05:57 <TrueBrain> a building, floor, and room number 17:05:59 <TrueBrain> all in 5 letters 17:06:28 <TrueBrain> although I wonder what the L stands for .. 17:06:31 <TrueBrain> Lab? Level? 17:06:44 <TrueBrain> well, in fact, it even tells which wing 17:08:43 <TrueBrain> 50 translations per second 17:08:45 <TrueBrain> that is slow :s 17:09:58 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:58 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:15:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:18:17 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:54 <TrueBrain> why oh why is Django so FUCKING SLOW :( 17:19:56 <TrueBrain> grr 17:21:28 <valhalla2w> TrueBrain: Huygens Lab 400 :P 17:21:32 <Rubidium> because compiling it with -O256 overflowed? 17:21:45 <valhalla2w> and because you're running it in development mode, probably 17:21:45 <TrueBrain> valhalla2w: yeah, Lab, I thought that .. still weird 17:21:57 <TrueBrain> nope ..switched to non-debug 17:22:00 <TrueBrain> still fat-ass slow 17:22:14 <valhalla2w> erm 17:22:20 <valhalla2w> how are you running the site? 17:22:25 <valhalla2w> from the python web server? 17:22:27 *** valhalla2w is now known as valhallasw 17:22:31 <TrueBrain> nope ... script-call 17:22:44 <TrueBrain> I just walk 2200 entries from a table and insert it in 3 other tables 17:23:11 <valhallasw> that should be fairly easy 17:23:32 <TrueBrain> for baseString in BaseString.objects.filter(subProject = subProject): 17:23:34 <TrueBrain> APICore.TranslationCreate(language, baseString, None, argv = argv) 17:23:35 <TrueBrain> codewise 17:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17029 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 3 changes by arnaullv 17:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 7 changes by Gavin 17:45:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 31 changes by silentStatic 17:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 changes by Yexo 17:45:58 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 54 changes by huddekul 17:46:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17030 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt waypoint_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Better descriptions for buoys. 18:00:35 *** paul_ [~paul@host81-156-72-245.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:51 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-131-59-168.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:56 *** paul_ [~paul@host81-156-72-245.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:35 *** tdev [~udev@p508EEDCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:10 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DD2DF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:32 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host81-156-72-245.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:26:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7796A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:58 <Zuu> Oo, forgot to add /trunk to SVN-address and started to wonder why it took so long to checkout the source code :-p 18:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> now it's getting weird... i booted like normal, and it said "pppd: unknown option 'eth0'" 18:27:51 * TrueBrain slaps Zuu 18:27:54 <TrueBrain> bandwidth eater! 18:28:27 <Zuu> At least I'm on a slow connection so it did "only" eat 180 MB. 18:46:20 <Rubidium> that's "only" 33% of the repository (if you would've downloaded the raw repository) 18:47:19 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of deleted branches? 18:47:22 <FR^2> Zuu: Hehe, happened to me some time ago at work... I wondered, why it already had checked out about 650mbytes, although the project had around 9mbytes... And a few weeks later, a colleague stumpled upon the same mistake *g* 18:48:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I'm more thinging in the area of language updates 18:50:40 *** xmakina [~xmakina@87.115.49.116.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:35 *** elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:48 <xmakina> quick question - how does an AI get the subsidy multiplier? 18:51:48 *** elmex [elmex@ist.m8geil.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:37 <Rubidium> I think the only way is by querying the appropriate setting (at least with the existing API) 18:53:35 <xmakina> you wouldn't happen to know what that setting is? the API documentation just says it's looking for char 18:55:39 <TrueBrain> Yexo: concratz on getting the URL right ;) 18:56:08 <Yexo> TrueBrain: every other file uses that naming scheme. Besides, I had just run doxygen locally :) 18:56:08 <Rubidium> not by heart, I'm guessting something like difficulty.subsidy_multiplier 18:56:28 <TrueBrain> Yexo: ;) Still ... 18:56:35 <xmakina> no worries - found it - list_settings 18:57:04 <xmakina> of course that's a bloody long list ¬_¬ 18:57:21 <xmakina> also - spot on Rubidium 18:57:23 <xmakina> :) 18:57:31 *** JFBelugas [~jfranc@ip-78.40.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:05 <Rubidium> xmakina: you can 'filter' the list (a bit) if you guess the begin of the setting name correctly 18:58:19 <Rubidium> e.g. list_settings diff 18:58:36 <xmakina> cool - i'll try and remember that if i need to pull any other game settings :) 18:59:35 <Rubidium> note that the value of the setting isn't the multiplier 19:00:06 <xmakina> so it isn't 19:00:38 <Rubidium> but a sort of index into a 'multiplier' lookup table 19:01:31 *** Dragoon_Jett [~JohnGalt@d67-193-154-52.home3.cgocable.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:46 <xmakina> any way to get the exact multiplier value? it's no real concern as i don't think many folks are going to be changing that index anytime soon 19:01:55 <xmakina> it'd just be nice to have the safety there if/when needed 19:02:41 <Rubidium> xmakina: no, it's hardcoded into the source and not provided in the API 19:03:40 <Rubidium> you could suggest an API call to get the subsidy multiplier in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=44249 19:03:41 <xmakina> i'll take my chances then that "1" will always equal x2 then :) 19:05:25 * xmakina suggests 19:05:54 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:11:21 <Dragoon_Jett> In the road types, what is better roads 19:11:28 <TrueBrain> hard road 19:11:39 <xmakina> they go a bit further before turning 19:11:39 <TrueBrain> sand road tends to be a bit hard to drive on pas 100 kmph 19:11:50 <xmakina> and there's usually more spacing between parallel roads 19:12:00 <xmakina> TrueBrain: ¬_¬ 19:13:19 <Dragoon_Jett> Is there any console commands that you can only use in the scenario builder or some tools made to help in the scenario builder 19:13:25 <Dragoon_Jett> Like filters for industrys and the like 19:13:36 <planetmaker> nope 19:13:45 <planetmaker> not that I know of 19:13:53 <xmakina> i don't understand why you'd need anything like that... 19:13:59 <Dragoon_Jett> What about editing starting money 19:14:02 <xmakina> no 19:14:05 <Dragoon_Jett> and loan caps/mins 19:14:07 <xmakina> no 19:14:23 <xmakina> starting money is fixed, loan caps are in the difficulty setting 19:14:48 <xmakina> you can provide the user with some ready made roads if you want to lower start up costs which is essentially upping starting money 19:15:04 <xmakina> but that's about the best you can hope for 19:16:01 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 19:16:28 <Dragoon_Jett> Everything is coded in C++ right 19:16:35 <TrueBrain> no 19:16:42 <TrueBrain> we also have bash, awk, asm, .. 19:17:05 <Dragoon_Jett> Could you code starting money and the like in newgrf 19:17:28 <TrueBrain> no 19:17:45 <TrueBrain> [21:14] <xmakina> starting money is fixed, loan caps are in the difficulty setting 19:18:31 <Dragoon_Jett> Yes, so I assumed it was only fixed to clients and the like but if you coded changes into the game then again I ASSUMED you could change it 19:19:02 <TrueBrain> not via newgrfs 19:19:26 <xmakina> in ottd Scenario = Map 19:19:27 <xmakina> that's all 19:20:04 <xmakina> i appreciate in most games Scenario = Special starting, goal, other alteration but that's not the case with OTTD 19:21:07 <Rubidium> in OpenTTD you can also have a 'special' starting, if by that you mean: already existing company infrastructure, a big depot or so 19:21:58 *** krushia [~krushia@pool-71-168-96-174.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 19:22:04 <xmakina> as in renaming a savegame into a scenario? 19:22:18 <TrueBrain> xmakina: OpenTTD doens't even have 'goals' 19:22:54 <xmakina> I know - I was pointing out that most games use the word scenario to indicate something unusual 19:23:11 <xmakina> special goals being one of the usual changes 19:23:26 <TrueBrain> would be nice if the game had goals though .. 19:23:28 <TrueBrain> clear goals, that is 19:23:56 <xmakina> nah - i like being able to make my own 19:24:06 <xmakina> my usual is "Connect every town" 19:24:15 <TrueBrain> I never managed to reach that goal :p 19:24:27 <xmakina> lol - same. getting very close on a 256x256 map though 19:24:45 <OwenS> TrueBrain: 64x64 map and it should be easy :p 19:24:53 <xmakina> just need to construct the north-western hub and grab all the towns that side of the map and i'll be done 19:24:55 <TrueBrain> you can't connect 1 town :) 19:25:06 <OwenS> Yes you can! You connect it to... itself? 19:25:07 <xmakina> two bus stations :P 19:25:20 <TrueBrain> that is not "connect every town" 19:25:33 *** Baffage [~potetfar@160.80-202-187.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:37 <xmakina> well if there is only 1 town then they're all connected 19:25:55 <xmakina> also: industries can be a valid alternative if there's a lack of towns 19:25:55 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B823D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:25:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:26:14 <TrueBrain> the last game I played, I had industries disabled :p 19:26:29 <xmakina> if it only had 1 town i imagine you got very bored very quickly ¬_¬ 19:26:34 <OwenS> "The mileage (in kilometres) from..." Is it just me who thinks there is something wrong with that phrasing? :P 19:26:46 <TrueBrain> OwenS: depends on the IQ of the reader 19:26:47 <xmakina> there might be... 19:26:56 <Baffage> heyguys, i'm new to this game, and i just noticed that my competitor companies make money off of "New vehicles", how is that possible? 19:27:29 <TrueBrain> sell vehicles? 19:27:36 <Rubidium> by selling more vehicles that they buy 19:27:44 <Rubidium> s/that/than/ 19:28:00 <OwenS> Rubidium: So they're operating -2 busses? :P 19:28:25 <Rubidium> relatively since jan 1, yes 19:28:50 <Baffage> ah, thanks Rubidium 19:28:58 <xmakina> i buy a bus in year 1 19:28:58 <xmakina> i sell it in year 2 19:28:58 <xmakina> ??? 19:28:58 <xmakina> profit 19:29:11 <TrueBrain> and you thank him :( 19:29:52 <Baffage> lolol, thanks to you too :] 19:30:00 <TrueBrain> :) :) :) 19:30:08 * xmakina /wrists 19:30:16 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I still have the cookie I offered you yesterday ;) 19:30:17 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Rubidium more likely to explode on you. Just be glad it wasn't Francium ;-) 19:30:28 <xmakina> it's okay :'( i'm used to being completely overlooked :'( 19:30:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: now you tell me! 19:30:45 * TrueBrain hugs xmakina 19:30:51 <TrueBrain> hmm .. now I feel dirty 19:30:53 * TrueBrain goes to take a shower 19:30:57 <xmakina> that'll be my wrist blood 19:30:58 <xmakina> :S 19:31:16 * OwenS calls social services 19:31:29 <Baffage> awright, prepare for another question, is it advantageous to full load a passenger train at the station? 19:31:42 <TrueBrain> depends 19:32:00 <xmakina> very depends 19:32:09 <Rubidium> Welcome to the social services, if you've got suicide problems please hang on while we find someone for you to talk to 19:32:14 <xmakina> if the town makes 3 passengers a month it isn't worth it at all 19:32:29 <OwenS> I'll say that in #ottdc we don't, because it generally decreases traffic. Of course, what is applicable to us is not always applicable to everyone else :p 19:32:56 <TrueBrain> for planes I always do full load 19:32:58 <TrueBrain> for trains never 19:33:06 <TrueBrain> I doubt if matters on the big scale :p 19:33:14 <Baffage> ah, allright 19:33:15 <xmakina> buses I do at small towns so they get a good station rating and so grow quicker 19:33:35 <TrueBrain> low pax waiting => high station rating 19:33:45 <TrueBrain> fast delivery => more money 19:33:52 <TrueBrain> high station rating => more pax 19:33:58 <Baffage> i'll just stick with full loading coal and stuff like that then 19:34:19 <xmakina> Baffage: full load if you the train won't be coming back with a full load 19:34:27 <xmakina> that's normally a safe rule 19:34:35 <xmakina> *you know 19:35:26 <Baffage> allright 19:36:43 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> solenoid.oftc.net quits: tneo, Alberth, KenjiE20, Fuco, planetmaker, Xeryus|bnc, @SmatZ, rasco, _ln, @orudge, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:36:48 <TrueBrain> OFTC: GIVE ME DORPSGEK BACK! 19:36:50 <TrueBrain> ass 19:36:53 <OwenS> OFTCs been really splitty lately 19:37:07 <TrueBrain> LOL! Overreacting OwenS? :) 19:37:30 <TrueBrain> the fact they hadn't any for months doesn't mean 3 in a month is a lot :p 19:37:55 *** Netsplit over, joins: Fuco, Mark, KenjiE20, Cybertinus, Alberth, MizardX, Spoons, blathijs, Default_, helb (+14 more) 19:38:01 * TrueBrain hugs DorpsGek 19:38:02 <TrueBrain> glad you are back 19:40:09 <planetmaker> wow... 19:45:44 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you are aware that openttd's compile farm builds nforenum too? 19:46:02 * frosch123 just wanted to ask the same 19:48:49 <Rubidium> and our download page looks much nicer: http://www.openttd.org/en/download-nforenum ;) 19:50:07 <Rubidium> though it will only builds an hour after TTDP gets build, which is somewhere middle in 'your' night 19:50:30 * DaleStan just updated his signature. 19:52:02 <Rubidium> DaleStan: you've noticed that I've made a diff for grfcodec to support the compile farm? 19:52:26 <DaleStan> I have.. 19:52:39 <DaleStan> Later today, I hope. 19:53:07 <Rubidium> that's all fine, just wanted to know it didn't go unnoticed 19:53:21 <Rubidium> it'll just occasionally look at svn.ttdpatch.net ;) 19:56:13 <Ammler> m?h, now, I have another error in opengfx :-( 19:56:24 <Ammler> strange 19:59:18 <TrueBrain> delete it 19:59:20 <TrueBrain> fixes all problems 20:12:13 * Zuu groans a bit on the filtering code. Filtering out content downloads that can be upgraded is quite easy, but to get it done nice and also when the tag/name string is zero-size is another story. 20:14:46 <Zuu> Would someone wants to be able to filter the list of possible upgrades using a filter string ever? 20:15:06 <Zuu> Dumb question - sure someone ever will do it. But is it important? 20:15:17 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: +michi_cc, TrueBrain, Eddi|zuHause, Xaroth, goodger, Splex, HerzogDeXtEr, Patrick, valhallasw, FloSoft, (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 20:15:30 *** Netsplit over, joins: xmakina, Eddi|zuHause, valhallasw, tux_mark_5, Splex, HerzogDeXtEr, goodger, DPyro, keoz, Xaroth (+5 more) 20:15:34 <TrueBrain> woesh 20:16:40 <frosch123> Zuu: add a filter to the newgrf-gui, which filters on name, description, filename and grfid :) 20:21:09 <frosch123> (well actually the add-newgrf-dialog) 20:24:21 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: deleting opengfx did not solve any of my problems :( 20:25:39 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no, you have to delete your problem 20:25:42 <TrueBrain> that always works 20:25:47 <TrueBrain> in your case, delete your computer 20:28:04 <planetmaker> rm -rf /dev/Eddi/computer ? ;-) 20:29:00 <planetmaker> Rubidium: I wasn't aware that the CF now does build it automatically 20:29:25 <planetmaker> If that's so, I can spare myself the hassle, at least the windows one. :-) Good to know. Thx 20:29:40 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:23 <frosch123> /sbin/suicide or shutdown --permanent NOW might also work 20:30:26 <planetmaker> DaleStan: fixes... I added another makefile fix for nforenum. "release" doesn't work on MinGW environments 20:30:30 <Zuu> frosch123, What does newgrf-gui has to do with content download? :-) 20:30:35 <planetmaker> at least not for me... 20:30:50 <frosch123> Zuu: you were talking about filtering, weren't you? 20:31:05 <Zuu> Yep 20:31:31 <frosch123> and I need filtering for the add-newgrf dialog :) 20:31:34 <Zuu> But not of grf-window. 20:32:20 <planetmaker> Rubidium: what's the look-up frequency of CF concerning nforenum / grfcodec? 20:32:39 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it does work if you override NFORENUM in Makefile.local 20:32:41 <planetmaker> (I mean: how often does it check for source updates, which it then compiles)? 20:32:43 <Rubidium> planetmaker: daily 20:33:00 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure, then it works. But... that doesn't sound sensible IMO 20:33:14 <Rubidium> resp. 1 and 2 hours after the TTDP compile run 20:33:14 <planetmaker> ^ changing .local to make it 20:33:22 <planetmaker> ah, nice :-) 20:33:40 <Zuu> frosch123, Or was it not an advice, but more a wish from your side ;) 20:33:52 <Rubidium> but I have to agree, for 'simple' users mingw support out of the box is better 20:33:57 <DaleStan> You should see my Makefile.local for TTDPatch. 20:33:59 <frosch123> yes, yes, yes, feature request ! :) 20:34:12 <planetmaker> Well. I added a small diff which works for me :-) 20:34:26 <planetmaker> and should - I hope - work for other MinGW users, too 20:34:52 <DaleStan> The diff between .local and .local.sample is larger than .local.sample 20:35:03 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 20:35:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 20:35:41 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:57 <Zuu> frosch123: What I had in mind: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=44582 20:36:38 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@81.158.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 20:36:48 <planetmaker> well. that big difference in size is not the case here, but surely it has some elements, too :-) 20:37:12 <frosch123> I hate automatic upgrades :) 20:37:15 <planetmaker> especially a distinction and detection whether make is running on mac or on win - and setting variables accordingly :-) 20:37:46 <OsteHovel> forced automatic upgrades suck 20:37:57 <OsteHovel> optinal automatic upgrade i feel is fine 20:39:35 <Rubidium> still, lots of work for a fairly hidden 'feature' that is either annoying as it pops up at the EXACT moment you want to click on some button or always shows on startup (if enabled) 20:39:55 <DaleStan> ... That's better. When TSVN fails to svn add new files, I get a little disturbed. 20:40:14 <Zuu> frosch123, That is why the idea is that it won't do it without you confirming. 20:40:14 <Rubidium> whereas the manual way is probably 2 clicks more 20:41:32 <planetmaker> Generally it's nice to have the option to automatically update the stuff you want. 20:41:43 <frosch123> well, I rather meant: i dislike the popup: "do you wanna upgrade?" 20:41:46 <planetmaker> But only if it's an option :-) 20:41:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but at what cost? 20:41:58 <Zuu> I find it quite convinient to not have to myself poll for updates. 20:41:59 <Alberth> I am wondering what the use is. Does the game automagically pick newer versions? 20:42:21 <Rubidium> because either it has to run in the background, which OpenTTD doesn't quite like 20:42:38 <Rubidium> or it 'locks' starting OpenTTD 20:43:03 <Rubidium> or it always spawns a window with 'checking for updates' or so 20:43:08 <planetmaker> hm... wouldn't it be indeed a candidate for a separate thread, the automatic upgrade download? 20:43:09 <frosch123> hmm, I guess queriing bananas takes about the same time as scanning the hd for newgrfs :) 20:43:15 <frosch123> at least on my side :p 20:43:18 <Alberth> (ie not only do you need to load updates from the Internet, it also needs to use them) 20:43:44 <Baffage> I'm trying to make a bus route, but when I click the bus station nothing happens, what might be wrong? It's my station and the game is not paused. I can send it to any other station, but not this one 20:43:47 <Rubidium> planetmaker: and then during loading a game it's finished and rescans for NewGRFs? 20:44:10 <Alberth> Baffage: what do you expect to happen? 20:44:11 <planetmaker> Rubidium: no. A game has anyway its fixed newgrfs. 20:44:30 <planetmaker> Baffage: it's a truck stop? 20:44:32 <Zuu> But could work for AIs 20:44:42 <Baffage> ah, it was a lorry and not a bus station :] i expected the station to appear on the route list 20:45:10 <planetmaker> hehe :-) Happened to me, too. Wondering why it cannot be added. 20:45:39 <Alberth> enough today, bye all 20:45:45 <planetmaker> good night, Alberth 20:45:51 <Zuu> Good night Alberth 20:46:00 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:46:41 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but all NewGRF structs are trashed and rebuild. Reading trashed (read freed) structs is NOT good 20:46:54 <planetmaker> eh? 20:47:10 <Zuu> Without thinking of the possibility of threading, my first though was to make the checking blocking. 20:47:25 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@81.158.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: null] 20:47:26 <planetmaker> where did I say to use the new ones in a loaded game? 20:47:42 <Rubidium> Zuu: that'd make, in of slow name resolution block for over a minute 20:47:44 <planetmaker> and where do I want to trash anything? 20:48:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you want to download, thus you want to rescan. The rescan trashes the grf lists 20:48:50 <planetmaker> Rubidium: you said "loading game". Loading a game means, no need to re-scan anything as you know your MD5 and GRFID 20:49:23 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I said that the download finishes DURING loading 20:49:46 <planetmaker> yes. But why does that then require a re-scan? 20:50:11 <Rubidium> because otherwise you won't see the newly downloaded stuff until you've quit OpenTTD 20:50:20 <Rubidium> which makes the automatic download quite pathetic 20:50:33 <planetmaker> a re-scan is only necessary, if you open the newgrf selection window 20:50:48 <planetmaker> otherwise a user doesn't need newgrfs anyway 20:50:57 <planetmaker> *a new list of 20:51:35 <Rubidium> and what if a user intends to join a server? 20:51:53 <Rubidium> or if the user downloaded someone's savegame and wants to load it? 20:51:55 <planetmaker> then he has that option anyway 20:52:32 <Rubidium> and because it didn't rescan, you have to redownload which probably won't work quite well (the overwriting an existing file) 20:52:37 <planetmaker> the other-person-savegame is IMO the only case where the user can indeed profit from newgrfs downloaded. 20:53:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:32 <Rubidium> the 'join server' too 20:53:45 <planetmaker> a player cannot join unless he has all newgrf 20:53:49 <planetmaker> so it's not a problem 20:54:10 <Rubidium> but the user HAS the NewGRF but OpenTTD just DOES NOT KNOW ABOUT IT 20:54:35 <planetmaker> yes, he might need to wait till download is finished. But he had to do that anyway. And a re-scan when there's no game yet loaded, doesn't hurt, does it? 20:54:36 <Rubidium> thus causing a duplicate download, causing overwriting of existing files which is totally untested 20:55:03 <planetmaker> whatever. 20:55:05 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but when is there a game loaded and when not? 20:55:31 <Rubidium> because when it starts rescanning that might not be the case, but during the rescanning a game may be loaded 20:55:46 <planetmaker> Rubidium: case internet server: you try to join, it fails due to missing newgrf. No game loaded. Ok, you hit rescan, maybe it works now, that the download is finished 20:55:50 <planetmaker> No harm 20:56:06 <TrueBrain> or you join the thread on such actions? :) 20:56:14 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but the user doesn't know that it has downloaded it, thus he does not press rescan 20:56:15 <planetmaker> case your own game: it may download whenever. No re-scan needed. You have your newgrf 20:56:27 <Rubidium> or can you remember 30 'upgrades'? 20:56:34 <planetmaker> Rubidium: then OpenTTD might do, when it is done downloading 20:56:37 <TrueBrain> it would at least be useful if OpenTTD informs you if there are updates ;) 20:56:53 <planetmaker> because there is nothing loaded a re-scan is safe 20:56:59 <planetmaker> anytime 20:57:10 <planetmaker> the only interesting thing is a savegame where you don't have all newgrf. 20:57:17 <planetmaker> well. I guess it will load as now, too. 20:57:32 <planetmaker> with or without errors. No re-scan necessary as it's unsave 20:57:38 <Rubidium> planetmaker: NOT if it is run in the background and the user presses the 'load game' button moments after it starts rescanning 20:57:53 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: semaphores? 20:58:35 <planetmaker> :-) 20:58:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: already had enough trouble with those for NoAI 20:59:22 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 20:59:27 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I believe it was not the problem of NoAI. That said, other solution is to join the thread 20:59:55 <Rubidium> anyhow, it's unlikely that you can write it blocking as the connecting to the content server is non-blocking 21:00:56 <Zuu> You can spawn a window that refuses to be closed untill the checking is done, and thus even if OpenTTD itself is not blocking you block the users. 21:01:39 <TrueBrain> Zuu: clever idea; sadly enough there is always the console :p 21:01:55 <Zuu> block that one too :-p 21:02:14 <Rubidium> not to mention blocking OpenTTD for 1+ minute in case you network is flaky sucks 21:02:14 <TrueBrain> put a statusbar in the top of the screen, and block vital buttons like newgame and loadgame :p 21:02:24 <DPyro> but then users will get annoyed 21:02:37 <planetmaker> :-P 21:02:58 <DPyro> can't you just block the multiplayer buttons? 21:03:26 <planetmaker> DPyro: the point was that it's dangerous also in SP situations. Especially the last one Rubi mentioned 21:04:08 <TrueBrain> why does my X consume 150 MiB of RAM :s 21:04:38 <Zuu> But then, isn't it up to users if they wants to have the convinience of not having to poll manually or having quick OpenTTD startups? 21:04:39 <planetmaker> Hm... what about that: don't update the newgrf list. Just send a chat message that it has been updated. 21:05:36 <planetmaker> anyway... time for bed... Only slept like 8 hours combined the last two nights. 21:05:41 <planetmaker> good night folks 21:05:42 <TrueBrain> Apple Style: put a (N) after Content Service when there is an update! :) 21:05:46 <TrueBrain> good night planetmaker!! :) 21:05:49 <TrueBrain> sleep well ;) 21:05:54 <Zuu> good night planetmaker 21:06:20 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 21:06:22 <TrueBrain> Django is killing me!! Even without saving it takes ages to walk over 20k records ..... 21:06:31 <TrueBrain> I really need to figure out what I am doing wrong, or what Django is doing wrong .. 21:07:09 <Zuu> TrueBrain, Could be an option, to just inform that there are updates, but then let the users do the work themself. 21:07:32 <TrueBrain> Zuu: I personally hate it when something downloads updates automaticly, like firefox does on windows 21:07:42 <TrueBrain> I like Apple for telling me there is an update, and allowing me to download it when I want it 21:08:00 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:01 <TrueBrain> (I believe RedHat does the same, for example :0 21:08:03 <Zuu> My original idea was never to upgrade automatically, but inform and allow users to upgrade by clicking on a button. 21:08:15 <TrueBrain> don't make nag-screens 21:08:18 <TrueBrain> they are .. nagging :p 21:08:39 <TrueBrain> I hate CloneCD for every time telling me there is a new version 21:08:42 <TrueBrain> I mean .. fuck off .. 21:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is it wise to split the power load over two PSUs? 21:09:19 <Zuu> And the main motivation was that people should get the last AIs etc. now that they can esier update AIs in running games. :-) 21:09:24 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no 21:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean like put the HDDs on another PSU 21:09:58 <TrueBrain> problem is that modern PSU are ATX 21:10:05 <TrueBrain> the motherboards control their powerstate 21:10:22 <TrueBrain> (the reason your HDs are not constant powered on) 21:10:34 <TrueBrain> so you will need to bypass that :p 21:10:43 <OwenS> Other thing is possibility of ground loops 21:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an older computer with a (suspected) dead PSU 21:10:47 <OwenS> Those can really ruin your day :p 21:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it powers up, runs the fans, but it doesn't boot 21:11:08 <TrueBrain> euh .. if the PSU is dead, it doesn't powerup :p 21:11:17 <Eddi|zuHause> bah 21:11:20 <TrueBrain> if it doesn't boot mostly your memory is fried, or one of the two bridges 21:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant CPU 21:11:24 <OwenS> Or it powers up wildly out of specification and kills everything 21:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> too many abbreviations 21:11:52 <TrueBrain> modern computers have POST to indicate what is wrong exactly :p 21:12:02 <TrueBrain> although I believe that is outdated too :p 21:12:05 <OwenS> PC Speaker connected? 21:12:11 <OwenS> :p 21:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't display anything, and doesn't make "beep" 21:12:28 <OwenS> Check the PC speaker is correctly connected. 21:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the HDD-access-diode is constantly on 21:12:55 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Does it have SATA or just PATA hard disks? 21:12:57 <TrueBrain> lol, your IDE cable is in backwards :p 21:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i remember, it used to beep, but i'll check 21:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no HDDs in there 21:13:23 <OwenS> Aah 21:13:39 <TrueBrain> I loved IDE for that :) If your cable was backwards, it just kept the light on :p 21:14:06 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: HDD led is the most untrustworthy light of a computer 21:14:08 <OwenS> Yeah. Doesn't happen these days, even with PATA disks, because the controller controls the light now, rather than it being connected to one oft he bus lines :p 21:14:30 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Not true. Keyboard lights are less trustworthy ;-) 21:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a pentium-III 800 afair 21:14:32 <TrueBrain> for example, on my computer it only reacts on SATA1 :( 21:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> my current computer doesn't even have one 21:14:57 <OwenS> I wouldn't know since my HDs are RAIDes... =/ 21:15:00 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: either way, connecting 2 PSUs to one motherboard is asking for troubles :) 21:15:10 <OwenS> My server has one plus one on each of the drive enclosures 21:15:14 <TrueBrain> I am happy our servers have hotswap bays 21:15:19 <TrueBrain> they come with their own activity light :) 21:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, connecting two transformators to a model railway works ;) 21:15:42 <OwenS> I have hotswap bays. Unfortonately Intel convined to not put hotswap controllers on their ITX motherboards.... 21:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> just make sure they have a common ground 21:15:51 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but they don't interact ;) 21:15:57 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Thats a transformer. Not a switch mode power supply 21:16:02 <TrueBrain> OwenS: SATA is always hotswap ;) 21:16:10 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Needs controller support 21:16:15 <TrueBrain> OwenS: not in my book :p 21:16:21 <TrueBrain> we have servers which claim not to have that support 21:16:24 <TrueBrain> but believe me .. it works :p 21:16:34 <TrueBrain> (we just reset the SATA driver on-the-fly :p) 21:16:34 <OwenS> The ICH7 on ITX motherboards can't be taken out of legacy IDE mode so the OS never detects the drive prescence/removal 21:17:10 <TrueBrain> no problem too small to fake a reboot :p 21:17:21 <OwenS> And... um... the OS reacts unkindly to loss of it's swap device. And root device :p 21:17:30 <TrueBrain> why swap device? 21:17:40 <TrueBrain> I can't remember the last time I created a swap 21:17:51 <TrueBrain> when you machines run with 8 GB of RAM, swap becomes ... well ... unneeded :p 21:18:14 <TrueBrain> and the OS is loaded completley in the memory (just 80 MB :p) 21:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time i read that swap is recommended to be 3 times the ram 21:18:23 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is VERY old :p 21:18:33 <TrueBrain> twice, with a max of 1GB, is the general advise at the moment I believe :) 21:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was in the win 3.1 manual or something :p 21:18:56 <OwenS> I have 1GB in my server and 2GB swap on my desktop (Both 2GB RAM) 21:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or win 95? 21:19:12 <OwenS> (2GB I blame on me not paying enough attention to Anaconda :P ) 21:19:18 <TrueBrain> the only downside of no swap, is that the OOMkiller can give you a hard time 21:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember having a win95 manual 21:19:38 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Thats the reason I leave swap in. So everything doesn't get OOMKilled when I do a complex compile :p 21:19:45 <TrueBrain> 10 minutes for 20,000 strings ... this is unacceptable ... 21:20:06 <TrueBrain> OwenS: swap or no swap, I get computers killed with the calculations I run :p 21:20:06 <OwenS> What you working with? 21:20:11 <TrueBrain> requesting 16 GB of RAM is no good :p 21:20:17 <TrueBrain> Django .. and it is giving me a hard time .. 21:20:28 <OwenS> Tried replacing the ORM with SqlAlchemy? 21:20:41 <TrueBrain> who with what? 21:21:05 <OwenS> Django's DB layer with SqlAlchemy... if thats the cause of the slowness (I gathered it was from earlier... but wasn't paying enough attention at the time to be sure :P ) 21:21:39 <TrueBrain> I wouldn't know what Django uses currently 21:22:04 <OwenS> Custom DB layer. But SqlAlchemy is fast and optimizes better than me (Though I will freely admit I'm no DB admin :P ) 21:22:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c3265.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:38 <TrueBrain> I guess the only question I should ask is: how to install? 21:22:51 <OwenS> easy_install sqlalchemy 21:23:02 <Sacro> hmmm 21:23:02 <TrueBrain> okay, I asked it wrong: 21:23:07 <TrueBrain> hwo to install it with django? 21:23:19 <OwenS> I think that someone's written a binding somewhere 21:25:51 <OwenS> I've never used it with Django, but on it's own it's always been pleasent to use 21:26:12 <TrueBrain> I use Django mostly for its simpleness in database layering 21:28:32 <TrueBrain> so I am sure it is nice and all .. but that would make using Django kind of obsolete :p 21:28:45 <TrueBrain> well .. maybe I should stop using Django in the first place, and write a standalone Python application 21:30:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has joined #openttd 21:30:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has quit [] 21:30:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has joined #openttd 21:31:30 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 21:33:45 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [] 21:39:54 <TrueBrain> maybe I do make too many selects .. hmm .. 21:42:33 *** worldemar [~tsukimiya@188.122.242.63] has joined #openttd 21:43:44 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@81.158.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 21:43:45 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@81.158.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: null] 21:45:00 <Ammler> /!!Warning (60): Expected 145 (0x91) sprites for this type. <-- I get this warning for the GUI 21:46:11 <Ammler> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/extra/ottd_grf/split/openttdgui.nfo <-- does have 0x96 too. 21:47:47 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 21:50:20 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:37 <TrueBrain> the difference between having 1 select statement active, is 100% more time needed to do what it does ... 21:50:40 <TrueBrain> (from 11s to 21s) 21:50:41 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 21:56:09 <TrueBrain> adding a few INDEXes increased it to 14s .. 21:56:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:35 <OwenS> OK. Something odd there 21:58:48 <OwenS> Tried running it inside a transaction if you're not? 21:58:58 <TrueBrain> how would that ever increase speed? :) 21:59:17 <TrueBrain> and I found out I did a lot of searches on a 'key' field, but it wasn't an index, so that explains the increase in speed ;) 21:59:19 <OwenS> Because database engines are random like that 21:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly certain the PC speaker is connected to the computer, but not even when i take out the RAM it makes a beep 21:59:39 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: then it is toast already :) 21:59:41 <TrueBrain> remove the CPU 21:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's amazingly much ram 21:59:43 <OwenS> "Increased it to 14s" made me think it made it take longer :p 21:59:43 <TrueBrain> see what it does ;) 21:59:50 <TrueBrain> OwenS: owh, no 21:59:55 <TrueBrain> decreased, I should have used 21:59:59 <TrueBrain> 11s without select, 14s with select 22:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it's 2 bars that say "256-133" and one that says "256-100" 22:00:19 <TrueBrain> DRAM! 22:00:22 <OwenS> SDRAM :p 22:00:28 <OwenS> SDR SDRAM though 22:00:39 <TrueBrain> fucking worthless :p 22:00:45 <TrueBrain> if you give money, people won't buy it :) 22:00:56 <OwenS> I'd take it if you gave me money and paid the postage :P 22:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i thought that :p 22:01:13 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you can't 'buy' something if you get money for it :p 22:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't figure out how to get off the CPU 22:01:36 <TrueBrain> big black box? 22:01:42 <TrueBrain> rectangle? 22:01:43 <Rubidium> I will give you the cookie I promised TrueBrain if you personally come to acquire the cookie 22:02:03 <Rubidium> (and bring the memory) 22:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> feeling alone? :p 22:02:09 <OwenS> I think my most fun PC work was replacing the CMOS battery on a Compaq LTE386/20s :P 22:02:29 <TrueBrain> 6 minutes in, did 10k records ... 22:02:33 <TrueBrain> still too slow to talk about :s 22:02:38 <OwenS> ...the battery is probably worth more than the laptop :P 22:02:53 <TrueBrain> for translation in OpenTTD_Translation.objects.filter(translation__language = language): 22:02:54 <TrueBrain> translation.gender = None 22:02:56 <TrueBrain> translation.save() 22:02:59 <TrueBrain> I think I should find a way to do that slightly more efficient 22:03:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no, mailing/FEDEXing the cookie will cause that you won't get a cookie but a big mess 22:03:09 <OwenS> 2MB Asynchronous DRAM; 386SX processor at 20Mhz; 144MB Conor Peripherals HD 22:03:38 <OwenS> ...And a BIOS setup program on a 720kb floppy 22:04:04 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:19 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 22:04:30 <OwenS> It does have the most graphical BIOS I've seen though :O 22:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no really, how do you take out a P-III CPU? 22:04:58 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a black box? Rectangle? 22:05:00 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: not ZIF? 22:05:04 <OwenS> Slot or socket? 22:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> slot 22:05:14 <Sacro> surely you just lower the lever and it rises out 22:05:19 <Sacro> hmm, slots, dunno 22:05:37 <TrueBrain> wasn't it just a matter of hard pulling? 22:05:50 <OwenS> May have to unlock the heatsink first? 22:06:15 <TrueBrain> http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/L_AMD-AMD-K7550MTR51B%20C%20(7th%20Generation)%20(front).jpg <- if it is like that 22:06:21 <TrueBrain> unlock the two thingies on the side 22:06:25 <TrueBrain> and just pull .. hard 22:06:39 <TrueBrain> as in that case the heatsink is integrated in the CPU ... stupid fucking annoying things 22:06:53 <Nite_Owl> there is a specialized tweezer like tool for some older chips 22:07:00 <TrueBrain> http://www.pacificgeek.com/productimages/xl/80522PX266512EC.jpg <- if you feel that you don't have an AMD 22:07:27 *** benben [~ben@i3ED6C628.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:07:30 <OwenS> TrueBrain: He said PIII :p 22:07:35 <Rubidium> Sacro: you're slow! 22:07:47 <benben> hi. is there a way to get those bot players remove roads they don't nead anymore? 22:07:49 <benben> *nee 22:07:50 <benben> d 22:07:52 <TrueBrain> 1 minute to import one language ..... :s 22:08:13 <TrueBrain> 60 seconds for 2000 strings .. 6 for 200 .. 30 per second .. 22:08:24 <OwenS> What database? 22:08:29 <worldemar> benben: buy them when you can do it and remove by yourself) 22:08:33 <TrueBrain> MySQL 22:08:41 <Zuu> benben: you can edit them as they are GPL2 all of them. But that is probably not the answer you are seeking for :-) 22:09:09 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Is it wrapped in a transaction? With some database engines transactions have masisve speedups... 22:09:19 <TrueBrain> OwenS: then I need to read how transactions work via django 22:09:22 <Sacro> Rubidium: oh? 22:09:26 <TrueBrain> (and I don't believe you :p) 22:09:33 <OwenS> Though I think it wraps the page in one =/ 22:09:52 <Zuu> benben: any specific AI you are having in mind? 22:09:54 <Rubidium> Sacro: archlinux + openttd 0.7.2? 22:10:01 <Sacro> Rubidium: hm? 22:10:39 <Nite_Owl> http://www.inoviq.com/products/tools/simple-chip-puller/ 22:10:51 <benben> Zuu: no idea, just the default one ;) 22:10:51 <Sacro> flagged 22:10:53 <Sacro> oh hm 22:10:57 <Sacro> they are both marked as Orphan 22:11:01 <Sacro> so not sure who'll do it 22:11:12 <Yexo> benben: if you're using 0.7 or later, there is no default AI anymore 22:11:17 <Zuu> benben: there is no default AI, if you refer to 0.7 or later. 22:11:19 <benben> i use .6 22:11:40 <TrueBrain> OwenS: MyISAM doesn't support transactions 22:11:44 <benben> worldemar: when am i able to do this? the button is greyed out 22:12:07 <Yexo> 5 (or 6?) years after the start of the company, and only if the settings allow it 22:12:27 <Zuu> benben: then you are a bit out on your own as in 0.7 and forward the old AI have been replaced with an API for user made AIs. 22:12:38 <Nite_Owl> http://www.etool.ca/RENDER/1/16/110/6301.html if you want to get very specific 22:12:39 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Tried changing the table engine to InnoDB? 22:12:42 <Rubidium> Sacro: http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=9391 <- any idea why the license is unknown? 22:12:50 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you have any idea how much slower that will be? 22:12:52 <TrueBrain> but sure, I can do that for you 22:13:01 <OwenS> No. I'm no DB expert :p 22:13:03 <Yexo> any reason you're still using 0.6? 22:13:13 <Sacro> errm 22:14:12 <Sacro> Rubidium: licence field written wrong perhaps 22:14:29 <benben> Zuu: Yexo worldemar: found the setting, bought the company, thanks :) 22:15:13 <worldemar> of course that may cost a lot of money... if you wanted to buy many bots 22:15:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-5-190.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 22:15:31 <OwenS> TrueBrain: InnoDB apparently multithreads better; and it almost always inserts faster 22:15:32 <worldemar> note, you also "buy" their borrows 22:15:38 <Sacro> Rubidium: i could take over the package btu I don't have community write access :( 22:15:59 <Sacro> hm, that one says vegai 22:16:00 <TrueBrain> OwenS: if now I knew how to make those tables InnoDB without doing them one by one :p 22:16:01 <Sacro> how strange 22:16:14 <Rubidium> I don't care; you've been bloating about archlinux every now and then ;) 22:16:44 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:17:40 <Sacro> Rubidium: heh 22:17:42 <Sacro> i do love arch 22:19:26 <TrueBrain> OwenS: okay, now Django keeps on telling me the code isn't under transaction management .. grr 22:19:32 <OwenS> O_o 22:19:59 <Eddi|zuHause> nope, i can't figure out how this works... 22:20:14 <DaleStan> Rubidium: The grfcodec diff is no good. MSVC compiles work fine, but your values for and usages of BOOST_WARN and BOOST_ERROR came from nforenum, not grfcodec. (GRFCodec can be built without boost.) 22:20:14 <DaleStan> Also, it breaks Cygwin compilation, for reasons I can only partly explain. (I can make it compile again, but then it doesn't link.) 22:21:31 <TrueBrain> OwenS: okay, running .. 22:21:53 <TrueBrain> it looks very slow ... 22:22:34 *** tdev [~udev@p508EEDCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 22:23:11 <OwenS> OK; perhaps you should discard my DB advice in the future :p 22:23:15 <TrueBrain> we had 1:30 for basestring + 1 language on MyISAM and no transactions 22:23:22 <TrueBrain> OwenS: no, it is good to know what works and what doesn't 22:24:24 <TrueBrain> but my slowness is mostly due to Django not being able to do a: DELETE FROM table WHERE subProject = 1 22:24:26 <TrueBrain> or what ever 22:24:41 <TrueBrain> and even worse, with UPDATE :p 22:25:30 <TrueBrain> 1:39 for InnoDB with transactions 22:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> hah, it is out 22:26:27 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: That must have took a lot of effort. I think I managed to unscrew my old CPU fan assembly faster :p 22:27:43 <Baffage> How many planes should I have using one city airport at a time? 22:27:54 <TrueBrain> OwenS: lol, 1:43 for innoDB without transactions :p 22:28:07 <Yexo> Baffage: that depends on the distance your planes have to fly 22:28:09 <OwenS> See, transactions make some DBs faster :p 22:28:16 <Yexo> general answer: try and see for yourself what works 22:28:23 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you were fucking right :) 22:28:44 <OwenS> I think it allows them to cache more aggressively 22:28:46 <Rubidium> DaleStan: that sucks :( 22:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but still no beep 22:29:45 <Yexo> I was reading that 'beep' as 'sleep', I think I should get some sleep ;p 22:29:47 <OwenS> A bridge is dead gets my vote; I'm gonna guess northbridge as it may actually get further if it were the southbridge 22:29:49 <Yexo> good night 22:29:51 <Rubidium> DaleStan: can you find another way that introduces Makefile.local as unversioned file? 22:30:08 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: no beep? Fried BIOS? fried south-bridge? Well .. motherboard is fucked, lets leave it with that :p 22:30:32 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: assuming the beeper isn't damaged ;) 22:30:48 <OwenS> Fried northbridge, fried southbridge, fried superio, fried bios rom, pick any :p 22:31:03 <TrueBrain> whoho, 1 minute 9 ... 22:31:14 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:31:15 <OwenS> How did you manage that? 22:31:23 <TrueBrain> Django 1.1 does have massive update shit 22:31:23 <DaleStan> I'm still trying to figure out why it won't link; if I can get that issue solved, getting the BOOST_* fixed will be easy. 22:31:41 <Rubidium> DaleStan: does nforenum link? 22:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> means i can sell the CPU and the RAM on Ebay ;) 22:32:15 <OwenS> Not necessarily. May mean that a power regulator went funny and fried multiple components 22:32:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah ... good luck with that 22:32:27 <TrueBrain> either way: good night all!! 22:32:30 <OwenS> night 22:32:34 <Rubidium> night TrueBrain 22:32:37 <TrueBrain> and tnx OwenS 22:33:01 <Zuu> Good night TrueBrain 22:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a friend had an article about reviving graphics cards by putting them into the oven at 100?C for 30 minutes, could that work with mainboards, too? 22:40:20 <Rubidium> there is a chance that it works 22:40:22 <OwenS> You know, I don't know... I don't see why it would work for graphics cards! 22:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's just a corroded connection, it might be fixed by slightly liquifying the metal 22:41:18 <OwenS> At 100degC? 22:41:48 <OwenS> Solder liquidizes at higher temperatures (150C for leaded, 200C for lead free I think?) 22:42:35 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it listed like 10 cases where it worked and one where it didn't 22:42:46 <DaleStan> <Rubidium> does nforenum link? <-- Yes. 22:42:51 <OwenS> I have a feeling however at those temperatures some plastic components may suffer 22:45:46 <DaleStan> ... ... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? I delete the *.os files and the .o files suddenly lose their undefined references? 22:47:48 <DaleStan> (... the .o files, which are never linked with .os files, ...) 22:48:04 * DaleStan is confused. 22:48:24 <Rubidium> DaleStan: I've just installed a cygwin and it heavily complains "The -mno-cygwin flag has been removed; use a mingw-targeted cross-compiler." 22:49:02 <Rubidium> removing the -mno-cygwin make it at least do something, though it fails further one now 22:49:38 <DaleStan> gcc 4 complains about that. gcc 3 does not. But now grfcodec is linking here. 22:51:31 <DaleStan> I still don't know what was wrong, though. 22:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> they ship gcc4 with cygwin nowadays? 22:55:49 <xmakina> quick question before i make an ass of myself on the suggestion board: any way to change the error message color on the AI box? I find that red really hard to read 22:55:52 <xmakina> ? 22:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> at which temperature do the capacitors blow up? :p 22:58:21 <Sacro> hehe 22:58:22 <Rubidium> xmakina: no, but -d ai=<some number between 0 and 9, don't know which one exactly but the higher the more chance> will print the error messages on the console 22:58:55 <xmakina> Rubidium: -d being a startup argument? 22:59:07 <Rubidium> yes 22:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you can change debug levels from the console, too 22:59:56 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but does that spawn the console on Windows? 23:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea 23:00:41 <xmakina> Eddi|zuHause: how? 23:00:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:58 <Eddi|zuHause> help? 23:01:25 <xmakina> Rubidium: just tried it with the console window - the line breaks in all the wrong places mean make it harder to follow. cheers anyway 23:01:27 <DaleStan> <Eddi|zuHause> they ship gcc4 with cygwin nowadays? <-- gcc3 and 4 are available for cygwin. I installed 4 and discovered (A) 4 didn't have -mno-cygwin, and (B) 3 won't work if 4 is installed. I uninstalled 4. 23:01:56 <xmakina> Eddi|zuHause: have you looked at consoles help? it's not very. 23:03:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 23:03:15 <xmakina> no worries - i'll drop a request on suggestions and until then a bit of squinting isn't going to kill me :P 23:05:01 <DaleStan> Is it a problem if I can make sense of the diff between two diffs? 23:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. means you have level 4 insanity 23:05:46 <Dragoon_Jett> What year do monorails come 23:06:01 <DaleStan> That depends on the vehicle set. 23:06:14 <Dragoon_Jett> How can I tell which vehicle set 23:06:17 <Dragoon_Jett> im using 23:06:54 <Eddi|zuHause> check the newgrf settings 23:07:09 <Dragoon_Jett> generic tram set 23:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that won't affect monorail ;) 23:07:39 <Dragoon_Jett> So which year :) 23:07:53 <DaleStan> You're most likely using the default vehicles, so somewhere around 2001. I think. 23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with the default vehicles in years 23:08:06 <Rubidium> DaleStan: did grfmrgc.bin not link for you? If so, changing the .os to .o in "grfmrgc.bin:grfmerge.o $(GRFMERGESRC:%.c=%.o)" makes it compile 23:08:21 <Rubidium> (both ".os"s) 23:08:23 <Zuu> I think it is later than 2001 but could be wrong. 23:08:37 <DaleStan> It didn't link because -mno-cygwin objects were being linked with a -mcygwin linker. 23:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> times are randomised around 2 years 23:08:44 <DaleStan> Or maybe vice-versa.\ 23:09:39 *** carl^ [~carl^@gw1.pipeten-w2-c3.w2net.net] has joined #openttd 23:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate disassembling computers... you always step on leftover screws afterwards 23:09:55 <carl^> whoa, way more people than I expected here 23:10:36 <xmakina> Eddi|zuHause: but at least those screws come in handy when a cheapskate manufacturer sells you a hard disk sans the screws for it 23:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> xmakina: yeah, i have a whole box of those... 23:10:59 <Dragoon_Jett> How long is one game year in real time 23:11:02 <Belugas> don't talk to Eddi|zuHause about Hard disks... 23:11:18 <Rubidium> Dragoon_Jett: days in year * 2.220 s 23:11:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:12:23 <Belugas> which is to say, a day lasts about 2.220 seconds in real life. why? you want to nkow how many minutes lest before sleeping time? to tv show? 23:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> something around 15 minutes 23:13:30 <Dragoon_Jett> I want to know how long till monorales 23:13:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i want a new computer 23:13:59 <xmakina> Dragoon_Jett: high speed is your bestest friend if you're waiting for something to happen 23:14:06 <Dragoon_Jett> im multiplayer 23:14:28 <xmakina> then a cup of tea is your best friend 23:14:32 <xmakina> :) 23:14:59 <Sacro> oh yes 23:15:03 <Sacro> <3 cups of tea 23:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i once read a theory about correlation of time dilation and rate of entropy change ;) 23:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning time runs slower if you wait for something to happen, and faster when you actually do something 23:15:45 <carl^> like waiting for moneyz in multiplayer to expand 23:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "sacro is less than 3 cups of tea"? 23:16:41 <Sacro> yes 23:16:43 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 23:19:47 <Dragoon_Jett> 10 more years till 2000 23:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> strange, i am already in year 2009 23:23:20 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Some people are perpeptually in the past 23:25:27 <Rubidium> DaleStan: http://rbijker.net/openttd/fix_cygwin.diff fixes it for me 23:30:18 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 23:34:05 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B75A61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:35:44 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 23:37:39 *** Leif__ [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 23:38:16 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:40:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7796A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:16 *** Zuu [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:43:49 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@S0106000f3d50466b.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:45:12 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 23:50:22 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:12 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]