Config
Log for #openttd on 15th August 2009:
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00:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> <noroot> searching for 'libicui' or 'icui' isn't giving any results <- the name splits into "lib" "icu" "i18n", so "icui" is probably not the best thing to search for
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06:50:27  <pavel1269> hello folks
06:50:56  <abbmaz> hello
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06:53:06  <Terkhen> hello
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07:11:37  <Tefad> lol IPv6
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07:15:37  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
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07:56:36  <fjb> Good Morning.
08:01:22  <Alberth> good morning
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08:10:50  <xmakina> morning
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08:33:26  <Andel> can anyone here access www.rmweb.co.uk ?
08:35:27  <xmakina> yes
08:35:38  <Andel> ok ta
08:35:41  <Andel> it works ok?
08:35:53  <xmakina> looks fine to me
08:36:25  *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0197d.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd
08:38:01  <Alberth> a company that removes the web?
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08:38:12  <Andel> ok ta
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08:46:37  <LordAzamath> morning
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09:15:08  <andythenorth> morning
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10:29:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17181 /extra/website/bananas/views.py: [website] -Change [FS#2949]: allow changelog.txt to be in the bundles
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10:51:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17182 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Feature(ish) [FS#2945]: sort vehicle lists on (timetable) delay
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10:57:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17183 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Add [FS#2827]: 'bundle_lzma' to the bundling functions
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11:12:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17184 /trunk/Makefile.bundle.in: -Add: 'bundle_7z' to the bundling functions
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11:24:07  <Eddi|zuHause> bundle_lmaa?
11:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ( :p )
11:25:22  <fonsinchen> eddi, you got up too early. You shouldn't do that on Saturdays.
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11:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i had to go to the beverages shop, which closes at 12:00
11:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> (PS: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMAA (meaning 1))
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11:39:37  <fonsinchen> I do know ...
11:40:08  <fonsinchen> and going to the beverages shop on Saturdays right after getting up is a bad sign ...
11:40:33  <fonsinchen> ;)
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11:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it means my parents are getting old, so my mother can't do heavy lifting anymore, and my father is too afraid to use the car...
11:47:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17185 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Tweak depot gui and vehicle lists, so text overlaps less with vehicle images.
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12:14:05  <Terkhen> hello
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12:16:58  <TrueBrain> hello Terkhen
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12:34:16  <andythenorth> hello terkhen
12:38:07  <Terkhen> hi
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13:11:12  <pavel1269> ahh, such a great weather today made the time spent on swimming pool even better :-) pitty noone arrived :-P ( what a surprise )
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13:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> then why are you already back?
13:21:09  <TrueBrain> pavel1269: if I would, it would still have taken me 4 more hours to arrive at your place
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13:31:33  <LordAzamath> gaaah.. Tried to understand squirrel but knowledge of lua is stopping me :D  Why couldn't AI-s be written in Lua :o :P
13:31:46  <LordAzamath> meh, shall continue learning some other time
13:32:06  <TrueBrain> lack of classes, for one :p
13:32:28  <SpComb> pfft
13:32:58  <LordAzamath> err. 1 hour, I'll figure out what do classes mean in squirrel. :D
13:33:20  <TrueBrain> sorry, what?
13:33:37  <TrueBrain> I tried to parse that sentence in 7 different ways .. all 7 failed :p
13:33:40  <SpComb> there's plenty of object-oriented code written in lua
13:33:52  <LordAzamath> object oriented code is easy with lua
13:33:55  <LordAzamath> metatables
13:34:01  <TrueBrain> which are _not_ classes :)
13:34:11  <LordAzamath> what are classes?
13:34:13  <LordAzamath> :P
13:34:18  <TrueBrain> what Squirrel ahs :)
13:34:24  <SpComb> there are libraries that implement classes in lua
13:34:25  <Alberth> object definitions
13:34:36  <TrueBrain> stronger: Squirrel is created to add classes to lua :)
13:34:49  <SpComb> it's true that lua doesn't ship with a built-in class/object model, but there are many valid ways of implementing it
13:35:01  <TrueBrain> SpComb: and we call that way Squirrel, very good :)
13:35:06  <LordAzamath> anyhoo, lua syntax is way easier :D
13:35:09  <SpComb> Squirrel is written in lua?
13:35:17  <TrueBrain> LOL! Why would that be a requirement?
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13:35:50  <TrueBrain> LordAzamath: Squirrel is a bit more C like, yes
13:36:08  <TrueBrain> but if you understand the idea of programming languages, you should not have that much of an issue to convert from one to the othe :)
13:36:23  <TrueBrain> then/do => {; end => } :p
13:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> why do so many people complain about the syntax?
13:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause> syntax is the least relevant part of a language
13:36:40  <LordAzamath> yeah, but what about some random :: thingsd
13:36:48  <LordAzamath> I have no idea what they mean :P
13:36:52  <TrueBrain> because they refuse to admit it is their knowledge :p
13:37:16  <LordAzamath> [16:36]	<LordAzamath>	I have no idea what they mean :P << that is my knowledge
13:37:32  <TrueBrain> the fact that lua doesn't have those is a nice proof it is not real OO :P
13:37:38  <TrueBrain> either way, LordAzamath, :: means 'global' namespace
13:37:50  <TrueBrain> AIRoad:: means AIRoad namespace
13:38:06  <SpComb> what do namespaces have to do with OO? :/
13:38:10  <SpComb> that's more like C++
13:38:16  * TrueBrain sends SpComb on a leason OO
13:39:32  <LordAzamath> well how would you say this is not an example of OO? http://lordy.pastebin.com/d6ee1dda8
13:39:47  <LordAzamath> which is completely in lua, some right click menu for MTA I created :P
13:40:04  <TrueBrain> you can even do OO in C
13:40:17  <TrueBrain> does that mean C is OO?
13:40:43  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Decent OO can be implemented in Lua with ~50 lines of code though
13:41:06  <TrueBrain> OwenS: not really, but okay .. this is all a useless conversation anyhow :)
13:41:18  <LordAzamath> true
13:41:31  <glx> LordAzamath: now bind c++ functions :)
13:41:46  <glx> and c++ classes
13:41:53  <TrueBrain> OwenS: you say it can be done, we say it can't be done ... uselss, without proof of you implementing it in OpenTTD :)
13:42:01  <LordAzamath> [16:41]	<glx>	LordAzamath: now bind OMGSOMETHINGTOODIFFICULTFORME functions :) <<< hmmm
13:42:05  <LordAzamath> can't
13:42:08  <LordAzamath> :D
13:42:37  <TrueBrain> LordAzamath: either way, with a clear mind and asking very specific questions, the Squirrel syntax should not give you too much trouble when you know lua
13:42:43  <TrueBrain> (or any other scripting language for that matter)
13:43:02  <TrueBrain> as every scripting language (ignoring things like functional languages) follows the same ideology
13:43:09  <LordAzamath> well yeah, I've already managed to write an ai which puts signs everywhere in game xD
13:43:17  <TrueBrain> see :p
13:43:38  <OwenS> On the other hand, is Lua (Or Lua + LuaJIT) not faster than Squirrel? :p
13:43:43  <TrueBrain> that you might not know what :: means, everyone will forgive you that, and explain it to you when asked :)
13:43:53  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I think C is even faster
13:43:57  <TrueBrain> lets do it in C! YES!
13:44:25  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Lua remains a scripting language :p
13:45:09  <TrueBrain> well .. I guess we should also start removing PYthon, Ruby, and AlterScript and the like
13:45:12  <TrueBrain> as they are all slower than Lua
13:45:30  <TrueBrain> (Lua being one of the fastest scripting languages available, mostly because it is so limited in its functionality)
13:45:34  <TrueBrain> even awk is slower :p
13:45:38  <TrueBrain> (for a fib() calculation)
13:45:42  <LordAzamath> heh, one more thing I'm not accustomed to and have had gazillion errors, upper case function names :D
13:45:57  <SpComb> it just seems slightly silly to spend effort writing an entire language interpreter and runtime to replace lua just because it can't do OO
13:46:09  <TrueBrain> the case doesn't matter if you call it yourself .. you are free to use the case. Just the Start and Stop have to be in that case (and Save and Load)
13:46:10  <OwenS> I have to wonder at what point fib() in AlterScript would beat Lua (I.E. when the JIT overhead would be outweighed by the speed savings)
13:46:20  <SpComb> but I guess that's been discussed before
13:46:21  <TrueBrain> SpComb: lucky, we never did, and it was already done.
13:46:35  <TrueBrain> OwenS: when you start doing JIT, thnigs change
13:46:40  <TrueBrain> even Java outruns Lua in that case
13:46:56  <SpComb> hmm... Squirrel was the 3rd party one? Wasn't there some internal effort as well?
13:47:05  <SpComb> nail?
13:47:09  <TrueBrain> we have been working on our own language, yes
13:47:13  <petern> there was that other thing a few years ago first
13:47:34  <TrueBrain> but that has everything to do with some .. special needs AIs need :)
13:47:35  <petern> gpmi or something
13:47:43  <TrueBrain> petern: then you never understood libgpmi at all
13:47:52  <TrueBrain> as libgpmi isn't a scripting language
13:47:55  <petern> it was a bridge
13:47:56  <petern> i know
13:48:02  <TrueBrain> (Generic Package and Module Interface .. the name says it all :p)
13:48:07  <petern> but it was "something" that was "worked on" for "ai"
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13:48:21  <TrueBrain> no, it was suitable for AIs, and we used it to proof the concept, yes
13:48:43  <petern> and then reverted :D
13:48:56  <TrueBrain> yes ... unauthorized by some lameass who did what he thought was the right way (tm)
13:49:07  <TrueBrain> (without ever asking .. don't get me started)
13:49:13  <petern> too late
13:49:15  <TrueBrain> true :p
13:50:08  <TrueBrain> funny enough, NoAI is almost identical to those packages .. not suprising if you know I took those packages to start NoAI .. :p
13:50:25  <TrueBrain> (give or take the C->C++ conversion :p)
13:50:44  <LordAzamath> hmm how similar are c++ and squirrel in syntax then, is it not too awkward to use c++ syntax highlighter for squirrel?
13:50:52  <TrueBrain> it should do fine
13:51:01  <TrueBrain> the only main difference is that Squirrel doesn't require a ';' at the end of the line
13:51:12  <TrueBrain> but I strongly suggest you do put a ';' at the end of a line
13:51:21  <LordAzamath> why :P
13:51:24  <TrueBrain> readability
13:51:26  <TrueBrain> portability
13:51:27  <LordAzamath> heh
13:51:41  <OwenS> I should finish refactoring AlterScript's code generator out of the AST... then add a bytecode backend :p
13:51:52  <petern> truebrainprefersitability
13:52:05  <TrueBrain> lol, I always wanted a word renamed to me
13:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate it when people check stuff into my python code, and they put ; all over the place
13:52:58  <TrueBrain> LordAzamath: it was a stupid design mistake of Squirrel to allow both. In general it is bad for any language to have such .. choices :p I would have gone with either way
13:53:08  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: even more as Python will complain :p
13:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> no, python accepts them...
13:53:27  <OwenS> ; simplifies the parser a bit however :p
13:53:33  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: really? Last time it was bitching ...
13:53:44  <TrueBrain> OwenS: \n or ;, it should be able to handle both :p
13:54:08  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: wow ... it allows it ...
13:54:12  <TrueBrain> that .. amazes me ...
13:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you can use ; to separate statements on the same line
13:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so a ; at the end of the line just opens an empty statement
13:54:53  <TrueBrain> completely against the ideology of Python :p
13:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause> which is valid python code
13:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> just... it looks awful
13:55:36  <TrueBrain> in Python, yes :) Hmm .. never knew :) Tnx Eddi|zuHause ;)
13:55:37  <SpComb> it's rarely used
13:55:48  <OwenS> TrueBrain: \n requires you add support for gobbling line endings when you want to continue a statement accross lines
13:56:05  <TrueBrain> OwenS: true
13:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have newlines within statements, as long as they are inside some other kind of brackets
13:57:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (in python, i mean)
13:57:48  <TrueBrain> you can? Yuck :p
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13:58:05  <SpComb> it's a very important part of the syntax
13:58:20  <TrueBrain> I only use newlines inside """ blocks
13:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. for example list literals
13:58:30  <TrueBrain> ah, like that, yeah
13:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause> or function parameters
13:58:44  <TrueBrain> I was more thinking like: if (\n
13:58:45  <LordAzamath> (lua [[]])
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13:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that is possible, too
13:59:05  <TrueBrain> I love Python for his auto-documentation stuff ..
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13:59:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just put a string anywhere
13:59:34  <TrueBrain> I hate it for its lack of scoping .. sometimes you move a block, and 1 thing gets a wrong \t ... and boem, it doesn't do what you expect it to :p
14:00:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, expecially when people cannot abide to coding style
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14:00:21  <TrueBrain> well, all my IDEs (and vim specially) tend to eat \ts...
14:00:26  <TrueBrain> or introduce plenty more :p
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14:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, sometimes you need to turn off autoindent ;)
14:01:13  <TrueBrain> never found out how .. always too lazy to find out how :p
14:01:38  <TrueBrain> as mostly there already is the problem of \t -> \s\s\s\s\s\s\s\s
14:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm lucky i found how to tell vim to use 4 spaces when pressing tab
14:01:53  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
14:02:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and the right config file to put that to ;)
14:02:50  <SpComb> worst thing is python code with mixed space/tab indentation that happens to work right (mostly...)
14:03:01  <SpComb> one runs into it every now and then
14:03:22  <TrueBrain> hehe, the other day I had a single \s before a statement between tons of other statements .. any idea how hard it is to find that :P
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14:04:05  <SpComb> \s? space?
14:04:18  <TrueBrain> yes, one single too many in one statement in a crowd of statements
14:04:27  <TrueBrain> python complains .. and it took me a while before I spotted it :p
14:04:50  <TrueBrain> (as the error given is on the next line, and VERY vague)
14:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, stuff like "unindentation does not match any previous indentation" or somesuch
14:06:06  <Alberth> SpComb: I told my vim to display \t so I can see I have a broken file
14:06:39  <TrueBrain> IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer indentation level
14:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> just make a pre-commit-hook that forbids \t in python files
14:06:49  <SpComb> there's also `python -tt`
14:07:16  <SpComb> hmm, python shouldn't let you indent random statements either
14:07:56  *** Polygon [~Poly@87.76.42.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:08:06  <TrueBrain> sometimes when having a C application I miss std::map .. grr
14:08:18  <SpComb> use glib!
14:08:29  <OwenS> std::map is nicer and more efficient :p
14:10:05  *** Wikie [~Wikie@79.117.156.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:10:13  <TrueBrain> I don't feel like implementing a RB tree .. so a hash table it is :p
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14:10:36  <SpComb> http://libredblack.sourceforge.net/
14:11:12  <TrueBrain> LGPL
14:11:14  <TrueBrain> no thank you :)
14:16:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r17186 /trunk/os/win32/installer/ (install.nsi notice.ini): -Change: remove UNICODE notice in windows installer
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14:21:05  <TrueBrain> tnx nevertheless btw SpComb :)
14:24:24  <LordAzamath> craps. :P
14:24:34  <TrueBrain> ieuw
14:24:45  <LordAzamath> trying to find out the easiest way to return a random town :D
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14:25:56  <TrueBrain> in general it is not the best idea to pick a completely random on
14:25:58  <TrueBrain> in general it is not the best idea to pick a completely random one
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14:27:03  <LordAzamath> why not?
14:27:15  <TrueBrain> as human, do you stat at a completely random town?
14:27:18  <TrueBrain> start
14:27:25  <LordAzamath> I'm just trying to do a test ai which would start to grow a town
14:27:34  <LordAzamath> could pick the smallest town tho
14:27:45  <TrueBrain> well, completely random is easy enough with AIBase.Random I believe .. or RandomRange
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14:27:59  <TrueBrain> when you want to pick a town which has some requirements, use lists :)
14:28:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17187 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make switches on news display mode complete.
14:28:25  <LordAzamath> lists in squirrels are like tables in lua, right?
14:28:33  <TrueBrain> I meant the AIList
14:28:48  <LordAzamath> AITownList
14:28:52  <LordAzamath> have seen it :D
14:28:56  <TrueBrain> then use it! :)
14:29:18  <Yexo> how did you think to implement it without AITownList?
14:30:15  <TrueBrain> no more GetMaxTownID?
14:30:57  <Yexo> it's at least deprecated
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14:31:16  <TrueBrain> fair enough :)
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14:31:23  <Yexo> already removed it seems
14:34:07  <LordAzamath> okey, where does the Valuate method come from?
14:34:09  <LordAzamath> nvm
14:34:10  <LordAzamath> found
14:39:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17188 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use display mode names for naming window and widget descriptions.
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14:55:10  <pavel1269> <Eddi|zuHause> then why are you already back? --- i had to, today, but tomorrow ... :P
14:55:30  <pavel1269> <TrueBrain> pavel1269: if I would, it would still have taken me 4 more hours to arrive at your place --- i know, pitty everyone dont live in infinite house, with infite levels, with elevator of infinite speed ... :-)
14:57:23  <pavel1269> also, my problem with breaking engines, while breakdowns are off, are caused by my patch ... :-D
14:59:04  <TrueBrain> you had a PATCH APPLIED?!
14:59:12  <TrueBrain> that is much more important than a grf ...
14:59:20  <TrueBrain> bad pavel1269! BAD BAD BAD pavel1269 :p
14:59:28  <pavel1269> ^^
14:59:48  <pavel1269> well, in my eyes, the patch did not break it, so only newgrf left ...
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15:00:36  <TrueBrain> bad pavel1269! BAD BAD BAD pavel1269 :p
15:00:43  <TrueBrain> (I just wanted to say it again)
15:00:52  <pavel1269> baaah
15:01:31  <LordAzamath> grr I hate it, I know there's a really simple answer somewhere so I'll look for it myself, rather than ask here, but then again I can't find it :D
15:01:41  <TrueBrain> paradox
15:01:54  <TrueBrain> but let me give you the answer
15:01:55  <TrueBrain> here it comes
15:01:58  <TrueBrain> ready for it?
15:01:59  <TrueBrain> 42!
15:02:01  <LordAzamath> no
15:02:03  <LordAzamath> :o
15:02:04  <LordAzamath> NNOOO
15:02:16  <TrueBrain> so now ask your question already :)
15:02:24  <LordAzamath> I want to find it :D
15:02:34  <TrueBrain> then shut up :p
15:03:15  <LordAzamath> oh well, I want to get all road tiles belonging to a town into a tilelist
15:03:54  <LordAzamath> So I guess there is somewhere a function like AITown.getRoads
15:03:56  <LordAzamath> :P
15:03:59  <TrueBrain> all, I don't think that is possible. But a good estimated is simple: just make a rectangle aroudn the core
15:04:08  <TrueBrain> (core of the town)
15:04:30  <LordAzamath> And then foreach ask if they are road tile?
15:04:37  <TrueBrain> Valuator
15:04:44  <frosch123> hmm, why can't enum be uses as incomplete types
15:05:26  <OwenS> frosch123: Because their size is (sometimes) determined by their valid values
15:06:41  <frosch123> well, you cannot determine the size of a incomplete struct either
15:06:51  <frosch123> or even a struct with an unbound array at the end
15:07:47  <pavel1269> quess, there is a difference?
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15:14:01  <LordAzamath> The tiles go like starting from top corner and counting to left corner, then another row starting at top corner, row 2 etc., right?
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15:14:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17189 /trunk/os/win32/installer/notice.ini: -Fix (r17186): really remove notice.ini ;)
15:14:42  <LordAzamath> So if I wanted to return a relative value to a tile, I'd have to know the size of the map, or is there an easier way
15:15:02  <TrueBrain> euh, yes :p
15:15:04  <TrueBrain> lol
15:15:04  <LordAzamath> I'm trying to get a tile 5 tiles left and 5 tiles up for example
15:15:07  <TrueBrain> would be a bit silly else ;)
15:15:14  <TrueBrain> AITile .. look through it :)
15:15:36  <LordAzamath> been looking there for a while, but ok, going there again
15:15:41  <TrueBrain> hmm . or not ther e..
15:15:43  <TrueBrain> one moment
15:15:57  <TrueBrain> AIMap of course :p
15:16:26  <TrueBrain> there you can get the X and Y, so that is one way for sure
15:16:35  <TrueBrain> but I thought there was also a way to do it faster .. can't remember :p
15:17:06  <TrueBrain> or could GetTileIndex be abused for that ..
15:17:08  <TrueBrain> can't remmeber :p
15:17:10  <LordAzamath> well getTileX, getTileY, getTileIndex soudl work
15:17:13  <LordAzamath> should*
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15:18:01  <TrueBrain> I think Yexo has a better memory on those subjects :)
15:18:32  <frosch123> isn't that describted on the wiki under "things you need to know" ?
15:18:39  <Yexo> AIMap.GetTileIndex(-5, -5) + reference_tile;
15:18:51  <TrueBrain> see ;)
15:18:59  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yup, indeed :)
15:19:14  <Yexo> but you should check first whether AIMap.GetTileX(reference_tile) > 5 && AIMap.GetTileY(reference_tile) > 5
15:19:16  <TrueBrain> http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know#Tile_Arithmetic
15:19:17  <TrueBrain> tp be exact
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15:21:24  <LordAzamath> oh great :D
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15:24:26  <Ammler> rename from spectacte to watch isn't complete?
15:24:58  <Ammler> -c
15:26:10  <TrueBrain> $ ERROR: Parse Error: could not parse
15:26:25  <Ammler> hehe
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15:26:37  <Ammler> someone changed spectate in watch
15:26:43  <TrueBrain> where?
15:26:44  <Ammler> but not everywhere.
15:26:58  <Ammler> it is changed in the server lobby
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15:27:22  <TrueBrain> weird :)
15:27:28  <TrueBrain> Spectate is normal english, not? :)
15:27:35  <Ammler> watch is at least easier to understand :-)
15:27:46  <Ammler> and to write
15:27:51  <TrueBrain> but okay, I can only find it in english_US
15:28:05  <TrueBrain> (yes, and hte text: watch as a spectator)
15:28:07  <Ammler> hmm, I use uk
15:28:38  <TrueBrain> english.txt:STR_NETWORK_GAME_LOBBY_SPECTATE_GAME_TOOLTIP                    :{BLACK}Watch the game as a spectator
15:28:39  <Ammler> ah thanks
15:28:40  <TrueBrain> the only string with 'watch'
15:28:51  <TrueBrain> (using spectate here is a bit silly)
15:28:54  <petern> Spectate the game as a watcher
15:29:12  <TrueBrain> english_US is inconsistant btw
15:29:27  <Ammler> I had accidentially the wrong nglish
15:29:28  <Ammler> E
15:29:29  <petern> of course, it's american...
15:29:43  <TrueBrain> they have: watch game, instead of spectate game
15:29:49  <TrueBrain> but the rest is all spectat*
15:29:54  <Ammler> but still spectate ingame
15:30:00  <TrueBrain> so it is just stupid :)
15:32:02  <Ammler> it is somehow not clear, which English is the standard in OpenTTD, maybe no need?
15:32:40  <Belugas> Brit!  All the way!!
15:32:47  <Belugas> of course my dear
15:32:49  <Belugas> no less
15:32:59  <Ammler> well, that isn't usual for software, is it?=
15:33:02  <Belugas> what is the country of Chris Sawyer ?
15:33:17  <Belugas> who cares what is usual?
15:33:24  <Ammler> Belugas: that needs insider knowledge :-P
15:33:24  <Belugas> it's usual to have a game in 3d
15:33:28  <Belugas> FUCK THAT!
15:33:51  <Belugas> Ammler, you are desesperate case
15:34:08  * Belugas is going back to home cleaning
15:34:08  <Ammler> dunno that word ;-)
15:34:31  <LordAzamath> de-separate :D
15:35:38  <Ammler> maybe it would be clearer, if you would call it just English, without "(UK)"
15:35:40  <pavel1269> ha! no more breakdowns while they are off :-P
15:35:54  <LordAzamath> color
15:35:56  * LordAzamath hides
15:37:51  <LordAzamath> anyhoo hl2:ep2 time
15:38:05  <LordAzamath> thanks for help TrueBrain
15:38:08  <Ammler> OT!
15:38:16  <LordAzamath> ?
15:38:22  <Ammler> :-)
15:38:33  <LordAzamath> likeeee.. off topic? :D
15:38:42  <Ammler> hl2
15:39:05  * LordAzamath searches an offtopic youtube link
15:39:09  <LordAzamath> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPrnduGtgmc
15:39:11  <LordAzamath> oh
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16:00:10  <Ping> hi mens
16:00:18  <Ping> i have a question
16:00:46  <Ping> is it possible to get the saving file from my pc to put it in my 2nd PC ?
16:00:57  <glx> yes
16:01:01  <Ping> cool
16:01:08  <glx> and men is plural already :)
16:01:25  <Ping> i go to holidays & i want to play on the same game
16:01:30  <Ping> yes glx sry :s
16:02:05  <Ping> do you know which file i have to copy ?
16:02:23  <glx> the .sav is enough
16:02:25  <Yexo> My Documents/OpenTTD/save/
16:02:31  <Ping> oh ok
16:02:48  *** fjb [~frank@p5485D4F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03:02  <glx> but you may need to copy the newgrfs too
16:03:26  <Ping> i didnt see OpenTTD created a folder in mydocuments
16:03:36  <Ping> im noob ! :D
16:03:43  <Ping> thx guyz ! :)
16:04:43  *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-138-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:05:17  <Ping> newgrfs are in OTTD/data ?
16:05:43  <glx> they are were you put them :)
16:06:08  <Ping> i didnt chose anything ^^
16:06:12  <glx> if you used content download you'll find them in mydocs\openttd\content_download\data
16:06:33  <glx> but you need them only if your savegame uses them
16:06:50  <Ping> ok, im gonna try now
16:09:45  *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE854a.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd
16:13:11  <Ping> it seems to be good
16:13:14  <Ping> thx men
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16:20:40  <petern> ooh, a segfault
16:23:15  <TinoDidriksen> Mmm, so crisp and tasty...
16:39:07  <TrueBrain> I love segfaults
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17:17:45  <Belugas> Run, Rabbit Run
17:18:07  * TrueBrain catches the rabbit
17:18:11  <TrueBrain> dinner time!!!
17:18:12  <TrueBrain> bbl :)
17:18:31  <Belugas> Dig that hole, forget the sun
17:18:38  <Belugas> ...
17:18:39  <Belugas> gone
17:20:34  <Ammler> filter.iseer.nl spams my log ;-)
17:21:00  <Ammler> with msg, that my server spams your mailserver :-)
17:21:14  *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd
17:21:41  <Ammler> 2 mails per min from same server is a bit low limit.
17:22:27  <TrueBrain> filter.iseer.nl is rotated out, should be down by the end of next month .. new filter software is in place, but I guess the domain you try to mail to is not rotated out yet
17:22:44  *** ^Spike^ [~spike@dhcp-077-251-090-192.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Not here]
17:22:48  <Ammler> openttd.org
17:23:05  <TrueBrain> hmm .. not on my list for next week yet
17:23:19  *** ^Spike^ [~spike@dhcp-077-251-090-192.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
17:23:50  <TrueBrain> but I guess the old filter is doing a good job .. 2 mails per minute sounds a bit too much to mail to us :)
17:24:17  <TrueBrain> every sane MTA will retry in DECAY time .. and if not, it should stay blacklisted :)
17:24:31  <Ammler> can happen quite esay with announce mails from issue tracker
17:24:44  *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
17:25:10  <Ammler> well it tries to retry, but then again 3 mails, of course :-)
17:25:13  <TrueBrain> even if that happens, the MTA should reschdule delivery
17:25:17  <TrueBrain> and it should arrive within the hour
17:25:30  <TrueBrain> well, after the flood period, 2 of the 3 would be let in
17:25:36  <TrueBrain> the 3rd boucned off again for the flood-period
17:25:39  <TrueBrain> and then let in later on
17:25:48  <TrueBrain> but if your MTA is broken, and doesn't respect a decay time ..
17:26:24  <Ammler> that might be, but I doubt, what is the decay time?
17:26:31  <TrueBrain> standard retry time
17:26:41  <TrueBrain> try in 5 minutes .. still fais? try in 10 .. 20 .. 40 .. 80 ..
17:26:54  <TrueBrain> wel,l I believe the times are slightly different, more like: 5, 10, 30, 60, 300
17:26:55  <TrueBrain> but okay
17:27:26  <TrueBrain> I believe this filter doesn't want to see the MTA for the next 5 minutes .. might be 10 or 30 (depending on the priority your MX received)
17:27:32  <TrueBrain> blabla ..
17:27:35  <Ammler> it is at 30mins now
17:28:00  <Ammler> and every mail was rejected
17:28:13  <TrueBrain> you waited 30 minutes for a retry?
17:28:21  <Ammler> me?
17:28:25  <TrueBrain> the MTA
17:28:27  <TrueBrain> dah
17:28:30  <Ammler> :-)
17:28:58  <Ammler> the last was 19:21, before that at 18.51
17:29:32  <glx> who are you spaming on openttd.org?
17:30:06  *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd
17:30:08  <TrueBrain> there were no delivery attempts at 18
17:30:11  <TrueBrain> there were no delivery attempts at 18:51 CEST
17:30:17  <Ammler> smatz and rubi
17:31:25  <Ammler> Aug 15 16:32:29 mozart postfix/smtp[19686]: 8DF492B3285E: to=<rubidium@openttd.org>, relay=filter.iseer.nl" target="_blank">filter.iseer.nl[80.247.163.9]:25, delay=407877, delays=407797/0.03/7.1/73, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host filter.iseer.nl" target="_blank">filter.iseer.nl[80.247.163.9] said: 451-Too many messages received from you within a 1 minute time period. 451-. 451-[EximConfig-2.5-iseer.nl-Flood-Protect-Sender-Rcpt] 451-. 451-Sender:  devzone@openttdcoop.org 451-Recipient:  rubidium@openttd.org 451-. 451-.Verify:
17:31:27  <Ammler>   verified-39072-rubidium@openttd.org 451-Contact:  filter@iseer.nl 451-. 451-Sorry, your message has not been delivered yet 451-because too many messages are currently being 451-received by our mail server from you to the above 451-recipient within a 1 minute time period (A 451-maximum of 2 are allowed.) 451-. 451-This measure is to protect our mail server from 451-message flooding/mail bombing, DoS (Denial of 451-Service) attacks, viruses and unsolicited spam.
17:31:28  <Ammler>  451-. 451-Your mail server should automatically try to resend 451-your message for you after
17:31:32  <TrueBrain> @kick Ammler PASTEBIN!
17:31:32  *** Ammler was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [PASTEBIN!]
17:32:13  <TrueBrain> 16:32 ... and he says 16:51 ... he really can't do math
17:35:11  <Terkhen> mmm... there's a widget-related bug in trunk: buttons at the scenario editor toolbar (except the map, music and land information buttons) don't raise after they have been clicked
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17:35:43  <TrueBrain> I guess Ammler should be happy we removed the central-blacklist feedback from those filters ... he is really hammering the servers .. lol :)
17:36:03  <Terkhen> the pause, fast forward, settings and save buttons raise normally too
17:38:58  <TrueBrain> the MTA of Ammler tries to bypass greylisting ... sucky MTA ..
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17:45:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17190 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 13 changes by Tvel
17:45:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
17:45:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
17:45:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: indonesian - 2 changes by prof
17:45:55  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by amateja
17:50:44  <Alberth> Terkhen: r17175?
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17:57:29  <Terkhen> no, it was r17187-r17189
17:58:11  <Terkhen> I don't remember the revision exactly
18:01:09  <Alberth> those are changes in the news display windows
18:01:33  <Alberth> I meant that r17175 changes auto-raise behavior, limiting it to push buttons only
18:03:55  <Terkhen> mmm... but should they stay lowered even if the window they open is closed?
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18:10:05  <Terkhen> I have to go, I'll be back later
18:10:19  <Alberth> probably not
18:10:22  <Alberth> see you
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18:23:11  <Ammler> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd <--down
18:23:20  <Ammler> SpComb: ^
18:23:42  <Ammler> @logs
18:23:56  <Ammler> @log
18:25:11  <LordAzamath> baek
18:25:47  <Yexo> Ammler: http://thegrebs.com/irc/
18:33:34  <LordAzamath> lul i crashed OpenTTD with my AI
18:33:42  <LordAzamath> or well
18:33:44  <LordAzamath> froze
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18:37:09  <Yexo> endless loop in a valuator?
18:37:24  <LordAzamath> no
18:37:37  <LordAzamath> removing a tile from a list in a valuator
18:37:45  <LordAzamath> the very tile it works on
18:38:06  <LordAzamath> valuating in a tile list and doing 		area.RemoveTile(tileID)
18:38:12  <LordAzamath> freezes it
18:38:18  <LordAzamath> I wonder if I should make a bug report
18:39:13  <Yexo> please do
18:39:25  <Yexo> although it may happen that only the documentation is updated stating you shouldn't do that :p
18:41:33  <LordAzamath> well I think it should rather give a warning at ai debug than to completely freeze openttd
18:44:28  <Yexo> as soon as I find a nice way to crash AIs from api code and a nice way to detect removing the element that's currentl being valuated, I'll be the first to crash the AI to avoid the problem
18:44:43  <Yexo> (warning messages in the AI debug panel don't get read, AI crash messages do)
18:45:50  <LordAzamath> hmm.. but there must be more ways to loop through a list, shouldn't there? :P
18:45:58  <LordAzamath> So I can still remove the tiles I want
18:46:12  <Yexo> removing while looping over the list is tricky
18:46:13  * LordAzamath is thinking of foreach
18:46:21  <Yexo> you can always use a foreach loop
18:46:39  <Yexo> but I think even in that case removing the element you're working on is not supported
18:46:53  <LordAzamath> hmm.. I'll continue at openttd.noai :P
18:47:06  <Yexo> easy workaround is adding all element you want to remove to a remove-list, then do orig_list.RemoveList(remove-list); after the valuate/foreach
19:07:40  <Yexo> quote from squirrel 2.2.3 changelog: "-fixed some minor bug"
19:09:48  <Alberth> :)
19:12:00  <OwenS> That changelog is beautifully descriptive
19:12:36  <Yexo> the rest of the changelog is better, this just caught my attention :p
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19:26:07  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
19:26:49  <welshdragon> z hello Nite_Owl
19:27:30  <Nite_Owl> <see previous reply>
19:27:39  <welshdragon> :P
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19:34:53  <Terkhen> hi again
19:35:17  <Nite_Owl> Hello Terkhen
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19:38:44  <SpComb> Ammler: not sure why yet, but I restarted lighttpd
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19:41:36  <Alberth> Terkhen: does this fix the raise button problem in the scenario toolbar?  http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scen_toolbar_raisefix.patch
19:42:30  <Terkhen> let's see
19:43:40  <Alberth> just modified most buttons to push buttons
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19:54:17  <Terkhen> Alberth: yes, now all buttons raise after being pushed
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19:54:30  <Alberth> ok, thanks for testing
19:56:19  <Ammler> Thanks SpComb, now I can read what TrueBrain answered me, after he kicked me, he should learn, that not everyone has autojoin function ;-)
19:56:49  <Terkhen> you are welcome
19:57:48  <Xaroth> Ammler: I think it would have been more entertaining if you did :P
19:57:55  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*ammler@ammler.ch] by petern
19:57:55  *** Ammler was kicked from #openttd by petern [not does it help]
19:58:15  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*ammler@ammler.ch] by petern
19:58:15  <SpComb> example by example
19:59:32  <Terkhen> Alberth: the buttons that move the starting date are not working: they raise correctly but they don't alter the date... can that be caused by that patch?
20:00:16  <Alberth> weird
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20:00:34  <Terkhen> I am going to check with unpatched trunk
20:02:12  <Alberth> that works, except rasing the buttons
20:02:39  <Terkhen> yes, I just checked
20:03:16  *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:04:24  <Terkhen> all other buttons in the toolbar work correctly, though
20:04:48  <Terkhen> (in the patched version)
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20:23:57  <Alberth> Terkhen: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/scen_toolbar_raisefix2.patch  this one works for me
20:27:06  <pavel1269> in depot also ^^
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20:27:54  <pavel1269> i mean, when selling wagon or part of train, they dont raise also, havent tryed everything in depo
20:29:51  <Terkhen> Alberth: yes, every button in the toolbar is working perfectly with that patch
20:32:11  <Alberth> Terkhen: ok.
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20:33:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r17191 /trunk/os/win32/installer/install.nsi: -Add: windows installer can now optionnaly download opengfx and opensfx
20:33:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17192 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17175): Buttons in the toolbar of the scenario editor did not raise again.
20:34:19  <pavel1269> sounds like you should check all the gui windows :-)
20:34:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17193 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_abstractlist.cpp ai_abstractlist.hpp): -Fix [FS#3124]: guard the valuator against 'external' modifications of the valuated list which could cause it to go into an infinite loop.
20:34:35  <Alberth> pavel1269: just the sell wagon, and sell chain buttons, right?
20:34:43  <pavel1269> well, not sure, sell train
20:34:48  <pavel1269> will test, mmt
20:35:00  <Alberth> (ie the upper 2 buttons)
20:35:12  <pavel1269> ye, only those 2 upper
20:37:03  <Alberth> pavel1269: I am, it is just called 'make them use nested widget tree instead of the old widget array', and it takes several months.
20:37:40  <pavel1269> hehe, but, good work :-)
20:38:00  <pavel1269> also ... what does nested widgets bring to "us" ... normal users? :P
20:38:37  <petern> widgets that are nested
20:38:39  <petern> duh
20:39:41  * pavel1269 looking in dictonary for "nested"
20:40:15  <pavel1269> ehh, what? :D
20:40:27  <pavel1269> so nothing new, but better work with them in code-wise?
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20:41:21  <Terkhen> in the road vehicle depot window, only the first button (sell single vehicle) remains lowered after being clicked
20:42:13  <Terkhen> the same happens for planes and ships
20:42:21  <Yexo> pavel1269: it makes all windows scaleable, so large fonts actually work without overflowing
20:43:05  <Alberth> or bigger sprites
20:43:55  <Alberth> and right to left languages get mirrored windows
20:44:36  <Alberth> and translators can use longer wording, and the window adapts
20:45:36  <glx> the screen won't be large enough for german ;(
20:45:39  <glx> ;)
20:47:22  <Alberth> all german users should buy a video projector
20:47:39  <glx> resolution is not infinite :)
20:48:05  <Alberth> an analogue video projector
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20:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> german neither has one-letter-words nor a lot of monosyllable words
20:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause> which makes english sound plain and dumb in comparison
20:52:43  <Alberth>  http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/depot_raisefix.patch  seems to work
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20:54:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so... successfully switched kmail, kopete and amarok to kde4 versions... what's left?
20:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if i should switch kaffeine yet...
20:55:58  <Alberth> kpackagekit?
20:56:11  <Eddi|zuHause> what's that?
20:56:39  <Alberth> automagic software package updater of Fedora
20:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause> why would i care about fedora?
20:57:25  <Terkhen> Alberth: that patch worked for me too
20:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not installing the package, the problem is migrating the configuration/data
20:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and the problem with kaffeine is that it's not a stable version yet
20:57:54  <Alberth> Terkhen: ok, thanks again for testing
20:58:13  <Terkhen> no problem :)
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21:00:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17194 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Fix (r17175): Depot sell buttons did not raise again.
21:00:04  <_ln> there's no k in stable
21:01:02  <Alberth> is software ever truely stable?
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21:01:24  <_ln> yes, when it's old.
21:01:35  <_ln> (that's debian's idea of stable)
21:01:55  <Alberth> that's called 'legacy code' :)
21:02:11  <Alberth> well, enough today, good night all
21:02:16  <Terkhen> pacman is old and has that funny overflow error :)
21:02:19  <Terkhen> good night!
21:02:32  <Yexo> good night Alberth
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21:12:08  <Terkhen> andythenorth: I am going to test v0.5e right now :)
21:12:33  <andythenorth> Terkhen: great ;)
21:22:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17195 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/ (17 files in 5 dirs): -Update: squirrel to 2.2.3 stable
21:25:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17196 /trunk/docs/openttd.6: -Update: the man page; add the sound set stuff and make a few things a bit clearer
21:27:21  <pavel1269> gn folks
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21:36:09  <Audigex> hihi
21:36:31  <Nite_Owl> Hello Audigex
21:36:36  <Audigex> hey
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22:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17197 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
22:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
22:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] FPE when an AI tried to do "% 0" (r17195)
22:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Guard the valuator against 'external' modifications of the valuated list which could cause it to go into an infinite loop [FS#3124] (r17193)
22:07:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Remove: UNICODE notice in windows installer (r17186)
22:07:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not return exit value of rm, but of the actual configure run (r17163)
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22:09:34  <Sacro> When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.
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23:34:57  <Jigfischer> It is time that all human races stand up to the threat that the feral negroid beast poses to civilization!  Asians, Whites, non-negroid Hispanics, Indians, Semites, Turkics, Native Americans, etc need to band together and put an end to the incessant monkeyshines that the niggras have been imposing on society.   If you are tired of the nignogs, then discuss it here at Chimpout Forum!  http://www.chimp
23:35:02  <Jigfischer> out.com/forum  We are not White Supremacists, we are people of all human races....Negro Inferiorists!  http://www.chimpout.com/forum
23:35:03  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~Jigfische@201.171.57.206.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] by DorpsGek
23:35:03  *** Jigfischer was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Jigfischer]
23:37:21  <OwenS> They're still doing that? ...
23:38:11  <welshdragon> yes, there are still spambots around
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23:42:54  <Belugas> how pleasant to have retards among us...
23:43:11  <Belugas> fucking cro-magnons... NEANDETAL!
23:43:39  <Belugas> neandertals, that is..  i think
23:43:54  <Belugas> ho... speaking of retards...
23:44:07  <Belugas> LET"S COMMIT COPY AND PASTE!
23:44:11  <Belugas> Really???
23:44:21  <Belugas> no...  silly... t'was a joke
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23:58:43  <MyCatVerbs> On the bright side, the spambot did at least nominate one forum for possible DDoS.

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