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00:02:01 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.31.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:18 *** Peter [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:07:01 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EE1C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:04 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:42 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.213] has joined #openttd 00:19:09 *** dfox [~dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:12 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 00:22:57 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:45 *** dfox [~dfox@r11jn246.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 00:39:31 *** Peter is now known as PeterT 00:41:37 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-170-238-73.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:41:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.200.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 00:50:11 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485D768.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:51:28 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I'm off] 00:56:30 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 00:57:35 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D9F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:13:52 *** killahkrew [~ircN@81-224-136-237-no23.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: ircN 8.00 for mIRC (20080809) - www.ircN.org] 01:21:56 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:31:35 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:46 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 02:04:42 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 02:16:59 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-170-238-73.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:19:26 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a142:8610:558d:342f] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:22:55 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:04:34 *** Zahl [~Zahl@78.51.50.83] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 03:11:29 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-163-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 03:54:50 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 03:57:33 *** thepalm [~chatzilla@121.210.80.70] has joined #openttd 04:00:02 <George> Can't update a GRF at bananas - "Unexpected error while uploading." 04:17:37 *** zachanim1 [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:19:43 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 04:22:31 *** George34 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 04:23:09 *** zachanima [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has joined #openttd 04:25:33 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:29:41 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:05 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 04:35:43 *** George34 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:44:23 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 04:48:26 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:09:59 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db87437.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 05:17:44 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 05:23:51 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:36 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 05:57:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Any tricks to get trucks to spread between stations? I've currently got a 3x3, but they prefer to build a giant backlog for 1 05:57:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Particularly bad if they're all unloading and the front vehicle is loading 05:59:29 <Rhamphoryncus> and they always refuse to pass each other.. 06:08:17 <boekabart> screenshot to 'explain' ? 06:09:43 <Forked> |_|_|_| <- three truck stops. They only use one of them (if I understood the question correct) 06:09:54 <Forked> Rhamphoryncus: maybe seperate load and unload with waypoint? 06:10:40 <Rhamphoryncus> I don't seem to have waypoints for trucks 06:11:10 <Forked> hm, I haven't played in some months.. you might be right there 06:11:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I actually have a 3x3 block, supposedly to handle the load. Occasionally they'll use the 2nd or 3rd, but they vastly prefer the 1st 06:13:20 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:17:32 <Rhamphoryncus> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3275 06:23:35 *** nicfer1 [~usuario@190.50.38.185] has left #openttd [] 06:50:55 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:52:01 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 06:59:02 <Rhamphoryncus> heh another station managed to deadlock itself. 4 goods trucks all waiting to load, with grain, livestock, and steel waiting behind them 06:59:17 <boekabart> Rhamphoryncus: could it be that the 3x3 f's it up? 06:59:39 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 07:00:28 <boekabart> and eh, have you heard of Shared Orders? 07:00:46 <boekabart> multiple vehicles can share the same order, saves you a LOT of work 07:06:29 <Rhamphoryncus> most of those are shared 07:07:54 <Rhamphoryncus> Might be an orientation thing. I've turned it all and they're not doing it 07:20:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Not really my bug, but it'd be nice if they had a penalty for waiting behind someone who's loading something different from you 07:21:09 <planetmaker> [08:10] <Rhamphoryncus> I don't seem to have waypoints for trucks <-- you do: just another, separate station with "go via" orders in the vehicles' orders 07:33:28 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 07:35:49 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh 07:36:02 <dihedral> hey ho pm 07:36:25 <Forked> can also have seperate stations for loading and unloading 07:39:15 <boekabart> indeed: penalty is no deadlock-proof 07:39:27 <boekabart> it might just make it improbable 07:39:39 <boekabart> but also very inpredictable 07:42:21 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 07:51:13 *** Terkhen [kvirc@150.214.220.183] has joined #openttd 07:51:34 *** Terkhen [kvirc@150.214.220.183] has quit [] 07:52:38 <Rhamphoryncus> Forked: pretty hard to do. It'd be easier to have entirely separate road networks to the same station 07:54:21 <Rhamphoryncus> boekabart: depends. If you have as many queues as load types, long enough in each queue for all the vehicles of that type, and it consistently picks the right queue, I don't see a problem 07:59:01 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 08:01:14 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:03:37 <planetmaker> hey ho, dih :-) 08:04:47 <dihedral> hehe - rv's? use go via dtrs 08:04:51 <dihedral> :-) 08:05:01 <dihedral> then you can force a queue 08:20:34 <welshdragon> can somebody throw Nekomaster a dictionary? 08:21:22 <welshdragon> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=45568&start=0 < custom doesn't need an E in it 08:23:47 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@176.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:23:52 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:27:08 <boekabart> welshdragon: and that's not all that can be said about him 08:27:18 <welshdragon> :) 08:27:40 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has quit [Quit: PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 08:27:48 *** Muxy [~Muxy@nt2001.opsio.fr] has joined #openttd 08:27:49 <Terkhen> good morning 08:29:25 <dihedral> welshdragon, you complain about his spelling?? 08:29:27 <dihedral> c'mon 08:29:38 <dihedral> you have so many international people there 08:29:47 <dihedral> look at alains posts :-P 08:29:57 <welshdragon> well yes 08:29:59 <dihedral> and consider again if the e in custom is such an issue :-P 08:30:14 <welshdragon> Alain's is appaling! 08:32:39 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@98.223.108.117] has joined #openttd 08:32:39 <boekabart> i was more referring to his .. inability to follow a frikkin tutorial... 08:32:40 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest1699 08:32:40 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 08:39:15 *** Guest1699 [~Dale@98.223.108.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:50 <dihedral> boekabart, that matches close to 80% of tt-forum users (if not more!) 08:53:30 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 08:56:52 *** kleinie [~kleinie@catv-80-98-95-36.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 08:59:03 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:08 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:06:28 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:07:18 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:15:37 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:17:49 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:50 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 09:21:01 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 09:24:13 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:26:58 *** kleinie [~kleinie@catv-80-98-95-36.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:58 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:30:12 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:24 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:36:25 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 09:41:04 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:43 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:47:00 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 09:48:46 *** boekabart [~boekabart@pizzapazzi.com] has joined #openttd 10:08:35 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:08:52 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 10:09:10 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 10:09:14 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 10:18:29 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:29:06 *** hickop [~hickop@AGrenoble-257-1-44-135.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:31 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:31:43 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:49:13 <Rubidium> so Sacro got his package a few days too early? 10:52:45 <boekabart> Rubidium: sorry , third time: did you get my remark about the MakeWater() fn name? (that it should be called MakeSea(), just like the Is-fn is called IsSea() 10:53:25 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 10:53:46 <Rubidium> not really 10:53:59 <boekabart> it should not really or you didn't really get it :) 10:54:14 <boekabart> (get as in: receive) 10:54:23 <Rubidium> didn't get it; I saw it but forgot about it again 10:54:23 <boekabart> (or get as in: understand) 10:55:04 <boekabart> ok then. So the idea is that you have IsCanal IsSea and IsRiver, but MakeCanal, MakeRiver and MakeWater 10:55:26 <boekabart> (where MakeWater doesn't do smth generic, just makes the tile Sea) 10:58:08 <Sacro> Rubidium: package? 10:58:30 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:31 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 10:58:34 <Sacro> welshdragon: alain's *are* appaling 10:58:44 <Rubidium> Sacro: your Windows 7 installation CD 10:58:50 <Sacro> no, MSDNAA 10:59:01 <Rubidium> as per http://crave.cnet.co.uk/software/0,39029471,49303983,00.htm 10:59:21 <Sacro> no no, i'm a CS student, MSDNAA access 10:59:27 <Sacro> had it for months just never got around to it 11:00:00 *** thepalm [~chatzilla@121.210.80.70] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]] 11:00:06 <Sacro> nice having it for free 11:00:11 <Sacro> as well as VS, OneNote 11:00:16 <Sacro> shame we don't get office :( 11:00:59 <Rubidium> students ought not to use office but VCS+latex! 11:01:14 <boekabart> aren't most students eligible to purchase office for like 10 euros through most universities? 11:01:45 <boekabart> Rubidium: I'm trying to tell my (student) wife that, but she refuses.... 11:02:11 <Sacro> VCS? 11:02:15 <Sacro> I use Lyx and TexLive 11:02:25 <TrueBrain> VCS === Version Control System 11:02:48 <boekabart> or a type of atari 11:03:10 <boekabart> or maybe Rb was referring to Visual C-Sharp? 11:03:21 <TrueBrain> hahahahahahahahahahahahaha 11:03:50 <Sacro> I do use Visual C# 11:03:52 <Sacro> love it 11:03:58 <Sacro> and i use mercurial 11:04:06 <Rubidium> first of all, I'd never call it C-Sharp, but C-Hash 11:04:20 <boekabart> Rubidium: that's because you're not a musician 11:04:32 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:04:36 <Rubidium> no, because it's a hash of crap 11:04:50 * boekabart feels a flamewar coming!!! 11:05:12 <TrueBrain> a ware requires someone saying it isn't a hash of crap 11:05:15 <TrueBrain> ware = war 11:05:16 <Rubidium> let me tell you that the last time I used it I've used some APIs that aren't quite .NET-ish 11:05:26 <boekabart> Sacro just did that 11:05:41 <TrueBrain> he just said he likes a hash of crap 11:05:44 <Sacro> wha? 11:05:48 <Sacro> it's sharp not hash 11:05:48 <Rubidium> boekabart: no, Sacro said he loved it 11:06:05 <Rubidium> you can still love something that is crap, e.g. DSB 11:06:17 <TrueBrain> you love DSB? 11:06:24 <boekabart> Rubidium said you COULD 11:06:31 <boekabart> not that he does (did) 11:06:37 <TrueBrain> so I am asking if he does :) 11:06:44 <boekabart> but one doesn't speak ill of the dead 11:06:59 <TrueBrain> well, DSB Beheer isn't dead (yet) :p 11:07:04 <Rubidium> the soap is so much better than ATWT, GTST, ONM, TBATB, ... 11:07:22 <TrueBrain> TBATB? 11:07:29 <boekabart> the bold... 11:07:29 <TrueBrain> beauty 11:07:30 <boekabart> Rubidium: you know them all? 11:07:31 <TrueBrain> ah :) 11:08:27 <Rubidium> boekabart: know is maybe a bit 'too much', but ... sometimes there're commercials on discovery (and I don't have commercial free discovery science anymore) 11:09:07 <boekabart> pf, I haven't had cable in 2 years, haven't missed it a day 11:09:37 <boekabart> ... good thing Sesame Street and Tele Tubbies are on FTA dvb-t ;) 11:22:05 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:41 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:42 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 11:33:41 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 11:35:53 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db00518.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:20 *** zachanima [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:38 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:40:38 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 11:52:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6d1c:58b8:c689:eda5] has joined #openttd 11:52:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:13:31 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 12:14:19 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.49.167] has joined #openttd 12:17:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:21:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17816 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 12:21:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: move the CargoList invalidation-after-saveload to the function that 12:21:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: handles the CargoPackets instead of spreading it around over the saveload files. 12:21:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Also add some code to validate whether the caches are valid; to be removed later 12:21:16 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: when no problems turn up 12:21:34 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2am198.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 12:21:36 <andythenorth> hello 12:21:49 <andythenorth> my eyes are bleeding 12:21:58 <boekabart> good for you! 12:22:01 <andythenorth> would anyone like to go in my FIRS thread and talk to Neko? 12:22:10 <boekabart> url? 12:22:14 <boekabart> (lazy me) 12:22:17 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&start=1020 12:22:40 <boekabart> You mean ForumId|26|ThreadId|41607 ? 12:22:51 <andythenorth> probably 12:23:07 <andythenorth> I just click read the words, click on the links.... 12:24:13 <boekabart> :) hm. He suggests a game that's impossible to start 12:24:27 <boekabart> Catch22-mode 12:24:51 <andythenorth> horrible-gridlock mode 12:25:04 <andythenorth> He's arguing against a straw man 12:25:30 <andythenorth> FIRS does what he thinks 'easy mode' is, only the delivered cargo is actually useful 12:25:37 <andythenorth> Hard mode is non-existent 12:25:52 <andythenorth> I have a soft spot for Neko, I don't want to slap him down again 12:26:02 <andythenorth> He's so.....enthusiastic 12:31:23 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17817 /trunk/src/ (saveload/afterload.cpp water_cmd.cpp water_map.h): -Codechange: MakeWater actually made sea tiles, so rename it to MakeSea and unduplicate the code to make sea, rivers and canals. 12:34:54 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-56.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:35:46 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2am198.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:37 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:44:49 *** Lofwyr [DrJekyll@p57B0B6C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:07 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 12:48:33 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0C9B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:30 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 12:53:33 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:33 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 13:10:26 <Belugas> morning 13:12:06 <boekabart> afternoon 13:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause> winter semester... 13:15:53 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:15:58 <Forked> cows in the sky with diamonds.. 13:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i was referencing a joke... "after waking up, one student asks the other: 'what time is it?' - 'thursday.' - 'i didn't need it that specific, it would have sufficed to say summer or winter semester.'" 13:19:05 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 13:26:17 <Chruker> now thats a thinker 13:26:30 <boekabart> is it> 13:29:01 *** Mark [~mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:32:48 *** Mark [~mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:35:10 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:30 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE15C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:53 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 13:43:37 *** Bean [~chatzilla@60-241-250-58.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:44:17 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:46:45 *** Bean [~chatzilla@60-241-250-58.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 13:51:02 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:51:31 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:00:20 <Rubidium> got to 'love' profiling :( 14:01:27 <Rubidium> especially when the results are odd 14:02:54 <Rubidium> okay, profiling results can be binned again 14:06:49 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeix161.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:08:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:12:06 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 14:12:43 <fonsinchen> Profiling the cargo loading without lots of transfers is rather pointless IMO. 14:13:11 <Rubidium> why? 14:13:24 <Rubidium> anyhow, PS154 14:13:32 <fonsinchen> Because most stations only have 1 packet then. 14:13:53 <Rubidium> append is 11% faster, moveto (including calls to Append, excluding allocs) 7% slower 14:13:53 <fonsinchen> PS154 still isn't as extreme as the average cargodist game. 14:14:23 <fonsinchen> which configuration compared to which? 14:14:32 *** George34 [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 14:14:49 <Rubidium> overall sets are 15 seconds slower over ~3 minutes (7% slower) 14:15:06 <Rubidium> current trunk vs trunk with your patch (kinda reworked) applied 14:15:59 <Rubidium> fonsinchen, anyhow the question is: should trunk get 7% slower for something it does not need (yet)? 14:16:13 <fonsinchen> did you follow the proposal of appending only to the last packet in stations? 14:16:39 <Rubidium> I copied your append functions verbatim 14:17:05 <fonsinchen> That's strange. I'll have to recheck that myself. 14:17:15 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/cargo_stuff.diff <- basically that 14:18:08 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:52 <Rubidium> I'm going to fiddle a bit seeing whether I can improve some things (at cost of compile time) 14:19:16 <Rubidium> I reckon the results could be better *if* gcc had working link-time-optimisation 14:19:37 <fonsinchen> Maybe it's some interaction with the reservation lists or the sorting by next hop. 14:20:08 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:05 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 14:22:03 <fonsinchen> are you using x86 or amd64? 14:22:08 <Rubidium> amd64 14:22:12 <fonsinchen> me too 14:23:07 <boekabart> can I help by profiling on win32 (msvc)? 14:25:06 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-163-169.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:24 *** Lofwyr is now known as Dr_Jekyll 14:27:18 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:37 <Rubidium> maybe I ought to test without asserts too 14:29:50 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 14:36:31 *** deghosty [~s@206-248-129-85.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 14:36:48 <Rubidium> with sets and the lot: ~10% more appends and 10% more allocs 14:37:45 <Rubidium> without asserts: Append 15% faster, MoveTo 15% slower (incl. calls to Append); caused by the extra packets maybe? 14:39:35 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 14:42:43 <fonsinchen> I don't quite get yet why the extra packets are a speed problem. They should be a memory problem at most. But I'll have a look at it tonight. 14:44:32 <fonsinchen> ah, I think I know it. With cargodist the number of packets is already higher because of the different destinations. There just aren't as many merging opportunities in stations. 14:44:52 <fonsinchen> This means more packets have to be loaded to get the same amount of cargo onto a vehicle 14:45:27 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:01 <fonsinchen> The merging only at the end probably doesn't add much to that kind of fragmentation while it significantly increases the fragmentation in trunk. 14:46:14 <fonsinchen> I should check that. 14:48:20 <Rubidium> 'reverting' the station merging reduces the number of extra Append calls drastically, yet the average time spent in Append is now up 20% instead of down 15% 14:50:14 <Rubidium> which basically implies that not (or only with the last) is incredibly cheap 14:50:27 <fonsinchen> How can the average time spent in Append increase if Append is the same as before and the number of calls to Append has decreased? 14:50:30 <Rubidium> whereas keeping a sorted set is relatively expensive 14:50:58 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:31 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: stationmerging 'as in trunk' + vehiclemerging 'as with set' != merging 'as in trunk' 14:51:51 <fonsinchen> So that's both Appends added up. OK 14:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> does it matter that much if packets in the vehicle (which are usually far less than at stations) are merged upon loading? 14:55:04 <Rubidium> well, AgeCargo iterates over them every so many ticks 14:55:22 <Rubidium> so that may be something to consider 14:55:23 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 14:56:13 <Rubidium> although fonsinchen's strategy for only checking the last packet might pay off with vehicle loading 14:57:00 <Rubidium> could reduce (half?) the packet splits/merges 14:57:19 <Rubidium> but it's a memory vs cpu thing 14:58:39 *** StarLionIsaac [~isaac@87.115.128.52] has joined #openttd 14:58:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think memory is usually less of an issue 14:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'd favour the memory version over the cpu version 15:00:46 <boekabart> Am I missing smth here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31576&p=826123#p826123 15:00:54 *** deghosty [~s@206-248-129-85.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand it either 15:04:33 <StarLionIsaac> That was my bad wording of it, and mistaking what was said 15:04:52 <StarLionIsaac> Apologies over that, I haven't had a cuppa yet today, I'm still not working in a straight line 15:07:51 <fonsinchen> What about using only-last Append on stations and classic Append with list on vehicles. It might be that the set was indeed detrimental all the time as I have only checked set Append on vehicles and only-last Append on stations combined. 15:09:13 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i can see how you "love" profiling that :p 15:11:53 <Rubidium> okay: only-last for only vehicles: 6% improvement overall for append and 6% improvement for MoveTo (excl. allocating); number of Append/Alloc calls are the same (I only count per 1000, so it can be a few hundred off, which is still less than 2%) 15:13:56 <fonsinchen> Another idea: We could search the list from back to front for classic Append. This way it will find mergable packets faster if it unloads multiple equal packets in a row. Also it's better in line with the FIFO principle. 15:16:13 <Rubidium> both using 'only merge last': 29% improvement for Append, but 5% more calls (so in effect 25% improvement). For some reason the allocs were 20% more expensive, but only 2% more allocs. MoveTo is 16% faster without allocs, but with Append 15:16:56 <fonsinchen> So, that's with only-last for both vehicles and stations? 15:17:25 *** zachanima [~zach@50A2FFAA.flatrate.dk] has joined #openttd 15:17:29 <fonsinchen> so only-last has a greater effect on stations than on vehicles. 15:17:55 <fonsinchen> I suspect only-last for stations and reverse-classic for vehicles is best if you consider AgeCargo 15:18:07 <Rubidium> in effect for MoveTo performance both "merge last for both" and "merge last for vehicles" are equally fast; assuming Append doesn't get called 15:18:48 <Rubidium> otherwise it's 3% for vehicle last merge and 5% for both last merge 15:18:50 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:19:21 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:19:28 <Rubidium> ah, good point to check agecargo too 15:19:35 <fonsinchen> I don't get it. Where did you get the 25% then? 15:20:38 <Rubidium> specific functions 15:20:50 <fonsinchen> AgeCargo for same number of packets is cheaper with lists than with sets. It doesn't have to create a tmp set. 15:21:25 *** boekabart [~boekabart@pizzapazzi.com] has left #openttd [] 15:22:56 <Rubidium> if Append gets 25% cheaper, but MoveTo gets more expensive (more packets) then overall it'll become less than 25% cheaper 15:24:30 <fonsinchen> but reverse-classic merging in vehicles should reduce the number of packets compared to only-last merging ... 15:25:53 <fonsinchen> at the same time of course increasing the time for Append, but each vehicle generally has fewer packets than a station. 15:26:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:29:28 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 15:30:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.186.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:10 <Rubidium> with all last-merge AgeCargo gets 10% more expensive; as it makes up ~40% of sum(MoveTo, Append, Alloc, AgeCargo) that's quite considerable 15:31:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.186.163] has joined #openttd 15:32:36 <Rubidium> (overall 3% slower) 15:36:45 *** StarLionIsaac [~isaac@87.115.128.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:58 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:37:01 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 15:37:59 <Rubidium> heh :) 15:38:48 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:50 <Rubidium> full merge in vehicles and only last merge in stations -> 8% slower AgeCargo 15:39:00 <Rubidium> last merge for all -> 10% slower AgeCargo 15:39:42 <Rubidium> for both overal a 3% slowdown 15:41:18 *** Muxy [~Muxy@nt2001.opsio.fr] has quit [Quit: Back to the Goulp] 15:41:32 *** Muxy [~Benoit@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 15:42:16 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.234.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:21 <Rubidium> though I can imagine that when there's nothing to merge at all that last merge is quicker 15:45:38 <Rubidium> now... full merge for both, but searching from the back 15:45:47 <Rubidium> got to love reverse_iterator :) 15:46:27 <fonsinchen> how can AgeCargo be slower if we do a full merge in vehicles? 15:47:57 <fonsinchen> is that full merge with set? Then it's clear 15:48:06 <Rubidium> no merging at station -> more small (different source) packets at the station -> packets of more sources loaded into the vehicle 15:48:23 <Rubidium> s/no/last/ 15:50:45 <Rubidium> with reverse_iterator: ~5% improvement overall; 10% improvement of MoveTo/Append 15:51:58 <Rubidium> no difference, besides random variation on AgeCargo 15:52:13 <fonsinchen> Of course not, the result is the same ... 15:55:29 <fonsinchen> is that reverse merging for both or only for stations? 15:55:42 <fonsinchen> ah, you already said. Sorry 15:57:09 *** worldemar [~woldemar@188.122.231.96] has joined #openttd 15:58:27 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeix161.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 16:00:44 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:40 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 16:09:33 <Rubidium> ouch 16:10:11 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/test.sav <- relatively small savegame with lots of transfers 16:12:01 <Rubidium> vehicle set + station last merge: 5 times slower age cargo (400%), 42% slower Append, 20% slower MoveTo (incl. Append) 16:12:06 <Rubidium> vs 16:13:21 <fonsinchen> That's indeed very strange. I'm just trying to reproduce that 2.5 vs 4 seconds thing I reported in the thread. 16:13:26 <Rubidium> reverse iterator: 10% faster Append, 5% faster MoveTo (incl. Append) 16:15:18 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:15:18 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 16:19:11 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 16:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so... reverse iterator is faster because ...? 16:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it is more likely that the last packet is the one being joined to? 16:21:34 <Rubidium> yes 16:21:36 <fonsinchen> it's likely that several similar packets are generated/unloaded in a row 16:21:45 <Eddi|zuHause> how about using move-to-front instead? 16:22:33 <Rubidium> basically if it gets loaded in a vehicle a packet gets split over all vehicles, later those vehicles are unloaded in (usually) the same order they were loaded 16:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. if a packet is being joined to, move that to the front of the list, so if it is being joined again, it'll be the first one to be checked? 16:23:02 <Rubidium> that makes it (way) less fifo 16:23:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, yeah, i see how that might be an issue 16:25:58 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:58 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 16:28:18 <Rubidium> Stoffe: could you please acquire a more stable internet connection? 16:28:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db00518.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 16:35:27 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:36:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17818 /trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp: 16:36:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: iterate the cargo list from the back when trying to merge packets. 16:36:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: Chances are higher that the last packet (in the FIFO-ish queue) is mergeable 16:36:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: with the to be added package. If a train gets loaded packets get split up and 16:36:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: put into the different carriages, at unload they are unloaded in the same order 16:36:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: so the last in the FIFO-ish queue is likely the packet it can merge with. 16:36:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: This results in a 5-10% performance improvement of CargoList's Append/MoveTo without performance degradation of AgeCargo. 16:39:18 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B08DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:32 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B05E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:41:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:44:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c33af.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:46:13 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:13 <Sacro> anyone here have any knowledge of Silicon Graphics Indys? 16:50:17 <Sacro> Irixy goodness 16:54:48 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@17.146.88-79.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:57:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:06 <fonsinchen> so, some results with cargodist: 30 days of PSG 154 wall clock: 17:00:27 <fonsinchen> vehicle: set, station: only-last - 2:45 17:00:42 <fonsinchen> vehicle: reverse, station: only-last - 2:50 17:01:00 <fonsinchen> vehicle: set, station: reverse - 2:45 17:01:11 <fonsinchen> vehicle: reverse, station: reverse - 2:47 17:02:13 <fonsinchen> Mind that reverse means reverse on the subset of packets with the same next hop. 17:03:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:04:56 *** Nyhne [~agentfox1@hybelgroos189.grm.hia.no] has joined #openttd 17:05:11 <Rubidium> so it's heavily cargodist related 17:05:33 <Rubidium> could you try with -vnull:ticks=10000 ? 17:05:44 <Rubidium> and -s null -m null 17:05:47 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:05:57 <fonsinchen> let's see ... 17:06:37 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest1734 17:06:38 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-62-27.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:07:17 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9DAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:07:43 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:06 *** Guest1734 [~markjones@client-82-2-48-127.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:14 <fonsinchen> @calc 10000 / 74 17:20:14 <DorpsGek> fonsinchen: 135.135135135 17:20:46 <fonsinchen> bah, this will take more than 10 minutes for each run 17:24:18 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B05E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> where do you get the 74 from? 17:25:21 <fonsinchen> 74 ticks are a game day 17:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> and what relevance does that have? 17:25:51 <fonsinchen> this means these are 135 days and for 30 days it took a little less than 3 minutes 17:26:15 <fonsinchen> probably more like 12 to 15 minutes then 17:26:31 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B0348.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:26:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:26:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i see 17:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2.5*3.5 17:27:11 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 8.75 17:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (2+5/6)*3.5 17:27:39 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 9.91666666667 17:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc (2+5/6)*4.5 17:28:07 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 12.75 17:28:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i shouldn't calculate stuff in my head :p 17:28:24 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 17:29:26 *** FR^2 [frr@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 17:31:10 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:35:45 * Rhamphoryncus wonders why 74 would be chosen, rather than 72 or the like 17:36:19 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17819 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace magic constant by symbolic constant 17:36:37 <fonsinchen> both reverse: 17:36:37 <fonsinchen> real 12m8.144s 17:36:37 <fonsinchen> user 12m14.406s 17:36:37 <fonsinchen> sys 0m2.020s 17:38:31 <Rubidium> Rhamphoryncus: 27*74 is ~2 seconds and 0x357 x 74 is ~65536 ? 17:38:42 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: does it take that long for you? 17:39:09 <Rubidium> it takes ~2.5 minutes for me 17:39:11 <fonsinchen> ah, shit, I compiled with debug=3 17:39:17 <Rubidium> you've disabled assertions too? 17:39:20 <fonsinchen> no 17:39:24 <Rubidium> ./configure --disable-assert 17:39:29 *** th1ngwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:41:16 *** thingwath [~thingwath@r2ap232.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:42:19 <fonsinchen> @calc 0x357 17:42:19 <DorpsGek> fonsinchen: 855 17:45:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r17820 /trunk/src/lang/ (indonesian.txt traditional_chinese.txt): 17:45:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 6 changes by josesun 17:45:27 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: indonesian - 1 changes by prof 17:51:51 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B61893.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 17:57:47 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 18:03:26 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@145.118.72.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:39 <fonsinchen> vehicle:set, station:only-last - 2:33 18:03:39 <fonsinchen> vehicle:reverse, station:only-last - 2:35 18:03:39 <fonsinchen> vehicle:set, station:reverse - 2:31 18:03:39 <fonsinchen> vehicle:reverse, station:reverse - 2:32 18:04:08 <fonsinchen> with disable-assert and without debug 18:04:39 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@145.118.72.64] has joined #openttd 18:07:00 <fonsinchen> so, for vehicles reverse is almost equally as good as set on PSG 154 18:08:23 <fonsinchen> reverse is better than only-last and both effects are not as interdependent as thought. But maybe there is random variation at work. 18:15:59 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17821 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make more mathods of SmallMapWindow private 18:31:36 *** bb10_ [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:33:03 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@202.99.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:58 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:53 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17822 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move 'extra viewport' code from smallmap_gui.cpp to viewport_gui.cpp 18:39:59 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17823 /trunk/src/autoreplace_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use top of the matrix widget as offset for row calculation in autoreplace window. 18:46:52 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:31 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:03:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Rubidium: where do 27 and 0x357 come from? 19:05:40 <frosch123> 0x357 is rougly 1/74 in fixed point notation with 16 fractional bits 19:06:46 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-56.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 19:08:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-251-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:09:30 <Rhamphoryncus> huh? 19:10:57 <Rhamphoryncus> floor(65535 / 74) = 0x375 19:11:41 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 19:12:52 <Rhamphoryncus> If that was a typo and 0x375 was meant then that'd explain that constant. That just leaves 27 19:13:02 <Rhamphoryncus> And 74 itself 19:14:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.184.22] has joined #openttd 19:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i presume these numbers are completely made up on the spot, and 74 was a constant inherited from the original game... 19:17:49 <frosch123> if you reverse that sentence you might get quite close 19:18:40 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, we have them now because they're inherited 19:20:09 <Belugas> 74 sounds like ticks per day 19:20:13 <Belugas> or something 19:21:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.186.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Belugas: scroll up. It is ticks per day. My question was why that particular value was chosen for ticks per day, rather than something like 72 19:24:21 <Alberth> No doubt CS came, saw, and concluded that 74 was the best number to represent a day. 19:24:40 <Rhamphoryncus> 74 has the prime factors 2x37. 72 has the prime factors 2x2x2x3x3 19:24:42 <Rhamphoryncus> CS? 19:24:46 <Rhamphoryncus> nm 19:24:54 <Alberth> Chris Sawyer 19:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he chose it because it _doesn't_ have that many prime factors 19:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you can go and ask him himself, i'm sure you can find contact addresses around the forum 19:31:03 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17824 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r4594): _date_fract runs from 0 to 73 since r2041. Variable 0x09 should not. 19:31:15 <frosch123> thanks Rhamphoryncus :) 19:31:22 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody noticed in 13000 revisions :p 19:32:24 <frosch123> @commit 4594 19:32:24 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by peter1138 :: r4594 /trunk (newgrf_spritegroup.c newgrf_spritegroup.h) (2006-04-27 19:53:58 UTC) 19:32:25 <DorpsGek> frosch123: - NewGRF: introduce the basic sprite group resolver. This code isn't used yet. 19:32:30 <frosch123> actually less :p 19:33:03 <frosch123> likely noone uses it anyway 19:36:16 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:36:32 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 19:36:42 <Alberth> hello Nite_Owl 19:36:53 <Nite_Owl> Hello Alberth 19:37:45 <Belugas> Why does it matter if it's 72 or 74? it's a number anyway... 19:38:11 <Alberth> perhaps 73 was not that bad :p 19:39:03 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17825 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Change: 'animate' the 'center to current position' button in SmallMapWindow when pressed 19:39:07 <PeterT> now^ 19:40:43 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:21 *** phalax [~phalax@84.19.128.89] has joined #openttd 19:46:59 *** PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:05 *** PeteT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe 73 was a bit too primey ;) 19:51:40 <Nite_Owl> or when added together they become tenuous at best 19:54:09 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-168-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:21 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17826 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: GetRoadVehLength() is only used in one file, make it static. 19:56:03 <Nite_Owl> I am sorry - I thought this was #badpuns 19:57:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Nite_Owl: don't worry, the worst we'll do to you is have you drawn and quartered 19:58:06 *** FR^2 [frr@frquadrat.de] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!] 19:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: honestly, i don't get it... 19:59:45 <Nite_Owl> 7+3=10 or is tenuous 20:00:14 <Rubidium> but... 07 + 03 != 010 20:00:15 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:08 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17827 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Deduplicate some lines of code. 20:03:03 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has joined #openttd 20:03:08 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B61893.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:16 <Nite_Owl> it might loose something in translation 20:03:27 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 20:04:12 <Nite_Owl> it is difficult to play to an international audience 20:06:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.134.103.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 20:06:38 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17828 /trunk/src/industry_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Variable declaration code style, and a few comment typo-ish fixes. 20:17:48 <Belugas> blibleblabloblu 20:18:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.134.103.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:42 <TrueBrain> awh, your son learns to type? :) 20:21:08 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.79.37] has joined #openttd 20:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> # la le lu 20:22:04 <Eddi|zuHause> # nur der Mann im Mond schaut zu 20:23:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: he will shortly catch up 20:23:41 <frosch123> :p 20:23:47 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 20:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> soon he'll have more commits than Belugas ;) 20:25:51 <Belugas> hehe 20:26:22 <Belugas> i hope he'll keep his sanity... 20:26:29 <Belugas> i still have not found mine yet... 20:29:13 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.79.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:31:15 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@202.99.200-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:31:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.79.151] has joined #openttd 20:37:16 <andythenorth> spooky quiet 20:37:48 <Nite_Owl> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqYDRxdgnC0&NR=1 20:38:03 <Nite_Owl> now that is spooky 20:41:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i wonder why i heard so much about it, but never actually saw this movie 20:43:59 <Nite_Owl> it is not a great film but that end scene is very spooky in context 20:45:31 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:33 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 20:46:38 *** Aixx_ [~iimii@84-50-161-70-dsl.rgu.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 20:46:40 <Aixx_> hey 20:46:54 <Nite_Owl> Hello Aixx 20:47:08 <Aixx_> can't install from .exe, when trying to launch it from zip, getting this error; http://www.upload.ee/image/233089/untitled.PNG 20:47:23 <Aixx_> am i missing something or? 20:47:30 *** Aixx_ is now known as Aixx 20:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously you are missing the files it lists there, check the readme for details 20:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or you use a .cfg with incorrect settings 20:48:59 <Aixx> checking the readme atm 20:49:11 <Aixx> i dont think i'm using invalid cfg or something :P 20:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> and why does it have to be black text on dark blue background? 20:49:32 <Alberth> Aixx: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/readme.txt#L178 20:49:35 <Aixx> cuz i'm on mates computer and he likes ugly win themes.. 20:52:41 <Aixx> trying to get a clue :p 20:53:08 <Aixx> those third-party files are located in "data" ? 20:53:25 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 20:53:51 <boekabart> whoops! 20:53:52 *** boekabart [~boekabart@ip218-114-173-82.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:55:06 <Alberth> yep 20:55:26 <Aixx> and where shoult i put them? 20:55:31 <Aixx> should* 20:55:57 <Alberth> read section 4.2 20:57:05 <Aixx> okay, got those. where can i get sample.cat ? 20:57:43 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17829 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move code used for adding vehicles and town names to minimap to separate functions 20:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> where you got the other files? 20:57:48 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.79.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:23 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [] 21:00:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.82.62] has joined #openttd 21:00:24 *** kay [~kay@user-5af2cc8d.tcl128.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:01:23 * Rubidium really wonders how hard reading can be 21:03:11 *** xi [~ondrej.st@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 21:03:58 *** Luukland [~luukland@ip195-211-208-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 21:04:32 <Muxy> @seen xi 21:04:32 <DorpsGek> Muxy: I have not seen xi. 21:04:40 <Muxy> @seen luukland 21:04:40 <DorpsGek> Muxy: luukland was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Luukland> Anyways, thx for the answer, pls next time hold the sarcasm Belugas, dont be such an ass to ppl who just ask normal questions 21:04:46 <xi> hi 21:04:47 <Luukland> :) 21:05:22 *** Luukland [~luukland@ip195-211-208-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:05:23 <Belugas> that was nasty... i was not even the smallest sarcastic! 21:06:05 <Muxy> hi Belugas, nobody blames you. 21:07:06 <Belugas> he did :( 21:07:13 <Muxy> really ? 21:11:26 <Belugas> but it seems that i can be sarcastic when i am not conscious of it :S 21:11:34 <Belugas> baaaa... 21:11:36 <Belugas> does not matter 21:15:39 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.82.62] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:21:14 <Terkhen> good night 21:21:16 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@176.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:23:18 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 21:24:33 *** bb10_ [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:37 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: frosch * r17830 /trunk/src/ (autoreplace_gui.cpp depot_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#3276]: Some windows already need their window_number when setting up smallest size (e.g. for DParams). So assign it earlier in Window::InitializeData instead of dealing with each window separately. 21:27:08 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17831 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: move code used for adding map indicators of the smallmap to separate functions 21:27:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590c33af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:56 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17832 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: make Alberth happier 21:30:43 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D768.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:24 <zachanima> OpenTTD: kanye * r17833 /trunk/src/video.cpp I'm gonna let you finish, but Beyonce has one of the best commits of all time 21:32:28 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-180-149.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 21:36:35 *** fjb [~frank@p5485C1B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:39:25 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-62-27.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:00 *** welshdragon [~markjones@client-82-2-62-27.brnt.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:40:14 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:57 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r17833 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Depot gui should use relative widget coordinates for clicking. 21:42:14 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:46:25 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 21:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> zachanima: i clearly missed the pun again 21:51:45 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9DAE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:31 <zachanima> :D 22:00:15 *** Nyhne [~agentfox1@hybelgroos189.grm.hia.no] has left #openttd [] 22:01:08 *** bb10_ [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 22:01:20 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-180-149.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye] 22:01:31 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=826220#p826220 <-- Nekomaster wants to get moderated 22:02:24 <Rubidium> planetmaker wants to be a moderator? 22:02:35 <planetmaker> surely not 22:03:04 <welshdragon> hehe 22:03:08 <welshdragon> Post reported 22:03:12 <welshdragon> :P 22:03:19 <planetmaker> :-) 22:05:44 <welshdragon> haha 22:05:48 <welshdragon> Alain can't read 22:05:58 <planetmaker> that's nothing new, or? 22:06:11 <welshdragon> read the IS2 topic 22:06:17 <welshdragon> last post by him 22:06:24 <welshdragon> *headdesks* 22:06:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17834 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix [FS#3274] (r17808): you got paid a bit too much... ofcourse the index of the source station generally doesn't equal the location of said station. 22:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 22:07:43 *** bb10 [~nn@k2061.upc-k.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:16 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DE15C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:15:58 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 22:17:03 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EE2A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:51 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: smatz * r17835 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: constify few variables 22:20:17 *** Aixx [~iimii@84-50-161-70-dsl.rgu.estpak.ee] has quit [] 22:24:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17836 /trunk/src/ (cargopacket.cpp cargopacket.h station_cmd.cpp): 22:24:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Codechange: split the CargoPacket constructor for creating 'real' new 22:24:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: CargoPackets and saveload. For saveload we do not need to set anything except 22:24:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: two variables (the rest is always overwritten by the load), for new 'real' cargo 22:24:46 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: also pass the source_xy; dereferencing st before calling is easier than 22:24:47 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: resolving st->index back to st and then dereferencing. Also don't set 22:24:49 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: loaded_at_xy because that is of no importance when not loaded in a vehicle. 22:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling these are only the most tiny drops of cargodist 22:26:38 <Rubidium> nope, the last few weren't 22:26:57 <Rubidium> or at least not in the cargoset branch 22:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that may be, but cargoset itself is only a small part of cargodist, or not? 22:29:01 *** TrainzStoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #openttd 22:29:05 <Rubidium> yup 22:30:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so... facit: i have one engine completely falling apart, one engine with loose soldering contacts, three engines that don't make a full round on their own, one untested engine and two that make their round fairly reliable, unless the track contacts are acting up... 22:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and at least one missing engine... 22:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that engine was there 20 years ago... 22:33:27 <Rubidium> so... make a quantum leap and ditch them. One big leap for Edii, but a small one for his trains :) 22:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and i could use some capacitors to prevent flickering of the lighted wagons 22:35:12 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 22:36:33 *** Stoffe [~mirc@237.203.216.81.static.g-td.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:33 *** TrainzStoffe is now known as Stoffe 22:44:35 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:11 <fonsinchen> I think I'll revert the actual "set" part of cargoset. reverse-linear searching for mergable packets in the vehicle cargo lists isn't really slower but much easier to implement and maintain. 22:56:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-251-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:57:07 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:03:48 <fonsinchen> I think I'll start merging the stuff now. Or are there more things coming, Rubidium? 23:04:01 <Rubidium> not really 23:04:14 <Rubidium> am messing with new/delete 23:04:24 <Rubidium> but that shouldn't bother you (I think) 23:20:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:34 *** tdev [~tdev@p508EE2A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:58 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:25 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@82-32-243-15.cable.ubr11.newt.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.3/20090824101458]] 23:32:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:33:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77CAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:43:09 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEed7b.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]