Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:16 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 00:05:56 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-f8f1e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:16 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 00:12:40 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:13:46 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbabf46.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:17:00 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@74.58.69.246] has joined #openttd 00:17:02 <dragonhorseboy> hey 00:20:21 *** Sweet|Home^ [~Sweet@81-86-165-20.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 00:25:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:26:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B777C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:27:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:30:11 *** ntas [~ntas@ip140-71-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 00:30:25 <ntas> some one here?? 00:30:48 <ntas> hello?? 00:31:11 <dragonhorseboy> yes? 00:31:21 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:58 *** ntas [~ntas@ip140-71-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 00:33:11 *** ntas [~ntas@ip140-71-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 00:33:21 <ntas> I need some help 00:34:09 <dragonhorseboy> with what? 00:34:40 <ntas> I'm playing ttd and I've looked up a coal mine that produces a lot of coal, I made a railway to a powea 00:34:45 <ntas> plant.... 00:35:20 <ntas> now i've been waiting for some time, but it isn transporting all of the coal 00:35:42 <dragonhorseboy> is the train set to 'wait for full load' at the coal mine and to just go to the powerplant then back? 00:36:02 <ntas> it says it has 120 coal , but only 27 % is transported 00:37:09 <ntas> and there is only..like..50 coal in my station 00:37:21 <ntas> and it doesnt get more 00:37:36 <ntas> so...how can i transport all of the coal??? 00:37:38 <dragonhorseboy> how much can your train hold? 00:37:56 <ntas> enough for the 50 in my station 00:38:08 <dragonhorseboy> so your train is ONLY 50 tonnes of coal? 00:38:56 <ntas> it isn't set on full load, because then i'll be waiting for an hour, because there isn't enough 00:39:12 <ntas> the nummbers are in perspective;) 00:39:17 <dragonhorseboy> ntas..umm .. are you sure the coal mine says 120 tonnes and your train has a capacity of 50 tonnes? 00:39:39 <ntas> let me look the precies nummbers up for you 00:39:43 <ntas> hang on a minute 00:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: "Ha, I thought the midi files are much bigger, something above mp3, but they are around 50kb" <-- it's like comparing text files to images 00:39:54 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has joined #openttd 00:40:39 <dragonhorseboy> eddi :) 00:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> where midi is the text files (instead of letters, you have notes), and mp3 is the image file 00:42:51 <ntas> okay...so the mine produces 136 tonnes of coal last month, witch of only 23% was transported 00:43:04 <ntas> there is 101 tonnes of coal in my station at the moment 00:43:28 <ntas> and I have one train with 6 time 30 tonnes of coal cappacity 00:43:39 <ntas> what to do??:P 00:44:32 <dragonhorseboy> hmm you sure you're not wanting to leave the train on 'wait for full load'? I mean 180 tonnes of coal on the train can't take too long to fill up from a 136 tonnes coal mine as long as your station rating is above 50% 00:45:39 <ntas> so you think that when I put my train on full load, the amount of coal in my station will increase?? 00:46:14 <ntas> because, then i'll do that with all my trains, because I have this problem at all my stations:( 00:46:19 <ntas> even much worse 00:46:27 <dragonhorseboy> well ntas..you're actually making it worser 00:46:29 <dragonhorseboy> thats all I can say ;) 00:46:45 <ntas> how:S 00:47:10 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:41 <dragonhorseboy> if you have a train with capacity of 180 tonnes and only pick up the immedate 60 tonnes of coal sitting at station then leave to not come back in less than ten days there's going to be coal sitting at the station and the station rating will only just go downhill and eventually start losing wanting to give you generious amounts 00:48:26 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 00:48:50 <ntas> ahhh...okay, i understand!...so, if you have a bad rating you'll get shitty amounts;) 00:49:08 <dragonhorseboy> ya .. keep it above 50% in general ... 60+% is much better 00:49:08 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 00:49:15 <dragonhorseboy> 70-80% is a very decent rating 00:49:20 <ntas> okay thanks!! 00:49:27 <ntas> I'll go and fix it;) 00:49:30 <ntas> bye! 00:49:32 *** ntas [~ntas@ip140-71-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 00:50:07 *** robobed is now known as roboboy 00:53:53 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E329.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:11 *** mikegrb [~michael@mikegrb.netop.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:11 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 01:07:19 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 01:07:28 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFAD15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:18 *** Bjelleklang [~Bjellekla@165.81-167-5.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving....] 01:09:39 <Terkhen> good night 01:09:43 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 01:12:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-211-54.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:22:24 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:40 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 01:22:48 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-13.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:23:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:25:00 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 01:25:54 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 01:27:41 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest734 01:27:41 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-86-31-39-174.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:28:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 01:31:18 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:32:46 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.96.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:32:58 *** Guest734 [~markmac@client-86-27-136-83.winn.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:48:23 *** mikegrb [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 01:49:07 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has joined #openttd 01:59:11 *** Brokkoli [~Brokkoli@g224067141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Gestern standen wir noch vor einem Abgrund. Heute sind wir schon einen großen Schritt weiter.] 02:05:43 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@74.58.69.246] has left #openttd [] 02:19:39 <sparr> am i correct in saying that "% transported" is a misnomer and actually reflects ratings? 02:20:07 <ajmiles> i don't think so, no 02:22:03 *** Rubix`` [~wrqwer@cbl-dhcp-5-050.machlink.com] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: 540 seconds] 02:22:17 <sparr> if i have trains sitting in the station all the time, how can % transported be <100%? 02:23:24 <ajmiles> perhaps it actually has to be taken somewhere, just speculating, as I'm not sure of the answer 02:23:30 *** Choco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9E90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's some kind of average rating 02:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or first of the month 02:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or something 02:27:43 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DA98A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:27:43 *** Choco-Banana-Man is now known as Coco-Banana-Man 02:30:36 <sparr> source diving in openttd is about to become my new hobby :) 02:30:49 <sparr> there are so many things that nobody understands completely, or the people who do aren't willing to share 02:31:16 <sparr> in #openttdcoop we (some subset of the players) discovered today that running cost goes up based on train age 02:31:40 <ajmiles> that's no surprise, and hardly hidden is it? 02:31:48 <sparr> it was a big surprise for us 02:31:55 <sparr> and it's "hidden" when inflation is on 02:32:29 <sparr> that is, the cost goes up over time anyway, so the effect of the age of the train is obscured 02:32:53 *** FelipeMcMont [~mcmont@187.59.127.118] has joined #openttd 02:32:56 *** FelipeMcMont [~mcmont@187.59.127.118] has left #openttd [] 02:33:36 <sparr> i might wager that most openttd players don't know that 02:34:16 <ajmiles> most of the time a given train's income so incredibly outweighs the running cost it doesn't matter much 02:34:28 <sparr> yeah, we were in the not-most of the time :) 02:34:39 <sparr> inflation caught up, to the point where most of our trains were losing money 02:34:48 <sparr> someone just happened to notice that younger trains were still making money 02:35:06 <ajmiles> don't cargo payment rates go up in line with inflation? 02:35:18 <sparr> apparently not quite enough 02:35:41 <sparr> answering that question is another reason to go to the source :) 02:36:06 <ajmiles> the game is so complex i would get used to going to the source :) 02:36:09 <sparr> i also want to know all the nitty gritty details of Local Authority ratings, i'm tired of "plant trees at random until it goes up" 02:36:14 <ajmiles> heh 02:36:22 <ajmiles> they are rather harsh 02:36:25 *** MyCatSchemes [~mycatverb@5ac7ac11.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:36:38 <sparr> or "oops, that demolish lowered it more than i expected, now im screwed" 02:37:13 <ajmiles> they certainly don't much like me landscaping around their towns :) 02:37:24 <sparr> i was trying to replace an airport with a bigger one 02:37:33 <sparr> and accidentally replaced it with a new (different name) station 02:37:37 <sparr> had to demolish and try again... 02:37:45 <sparr> but the SECOND demolish lowered my rating enough that i couldn't rebuild 02:38:18 <ajmiles> yeah, the ability to do that sort of "upgrade" would be good without a rating hit 02:38:40 <ajmiles> you have to build intercontinental airports really early because you know upgrading later on is going to be hard 02:39:04 <ashb> i usually buy/cordon off the land for the larger one 02:39:24 <sparr> ashb: did that 02:39:41 <ashb> part of the problem is tree growth is stupid 02:39:51 <ashb> after 50years trees are *everywhere* 02:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a setting for that now 02:40:06 <ashb> ah that made it to trunk? cool 02:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure about what you mean by "that", but "something" made it to trunk 02:40:50 <ashb> there was a patch flaoting around htat either tweaked it or made it a setting 02:41:05 <ashb> (this was about 9-15months ago when i last looked at tht) 02:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably not it ;) 02:42:06 <ashb> dont care so long as i can slow down tree growth 02:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it's basically "don't let trees spread to tiles that don't have a tree yet" 02:43:26 <sparr> why do we care about tree growth? 02:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and that makes it slightly biased towards "trees will eventually die out" 02:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: because trees are the biggest town rating killers 02:44:21 <sparr> orly 02:44:22 <Kovensky> s/killers/resurrecters/ 02:44:55 <ashb> Kovensky: can't resurrect the rating if the town is already fully surrounded by full tree tiles 02:45:03 <ashb> which often happens in my games 02:45:13 <Kovensky> wasn't there that cheat where you delete some 200 or so tiles 02:45:17 <Kovensky> and then replant them all 02:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ashb: yes. just destroy the other trees before. rating can't drop below 0 02:45:32 <ashb> true 02:46:17 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9E90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Die Nützlichkeit der Götter war schon immer eine zweifelhafte Sache. Man wusste nie so genau, wie man sie wirksam einsetzen konnte, ohne dass sie gleich b] 02:47:07 <sparr> i play with trees transparent... in a coop game in year 2300 the map is completely covered 02:47:12 <sparr> impossible to play with them on 02:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i love trees 02:47:33 <Kovensky> I make trees invisible 02:47:34 <ajmiles> yeah, i have invisible trees, don't even think about destroying them 02:47:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and you should make them invisible instead of transparent 02:47:44 <sparr> i meant invisible, sorry 02:47:55 <sparr> to me, translucent/transparent, not transparent/invisible 02:48:34 <ashb> yeah i'd quite like to be able to play with trees on but not have them cover the entire map 02:48:46 <ashb> cos it adds a lot of visual candy if they are in some places 02:51:26 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:47 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 02:59:50 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has joined #openttd 03:04:35 <sparr> i'm used to nethack, where every wiki page has links to the source as citations :) 03:04:52 <sparr> around here it's all speculation and experimentation 03:11:29 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:11:45 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:27:46 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cb99.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:10 *** gathers [~gathers@c80-216-141-218.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:39:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:71d2:2854:181:3d21] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:40:13 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:10 *** KenjiE20|LT [~KenjiE20@host86-170-57-13.range86-170.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:21 *** weaselboy246 [risugami@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Quit: Beware of the bearers of false gifts and broken promises. Much pain but there is still time. Believe. There is still good out there. We oppose the decieve] 03:51:47 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-86-31-39-174.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: welshdragon] 04:03:53 *** Annil [~neopet_bo@203-213-29-58-cbr-ts7-2600.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:04:33 <Annil> CAN someone please tell me why this happens, i downloaded open TTD downloaded AIS, but my AIs keep building airports, bus stops etc(but no vehicles), and hence go bankrupt 04:04:47 <Annil> what am i doing wrong, i have downloaded all the online content available ? 04:05:59 <PeterT> What AIs? 04:06:12 <PeterT> *Which 04:06:16 <Annil> all the Ais available for download 04:06:18 <Annil> one sec 04:06:44 <Annil> admiral ai 04:06:46 <Annil> choo choo 04:06:47 <Annil> etc 04:06:58 <Annil> chopper 04:07:01 <Annil> cluelessplus 04:07:10 <Annil> otvial 04:07:11 <Annil> convoy 04:07:23 <Annil> towncars 04:07:26 <Annil> streettraffic 04:07:37 <Annil> convoy 04:08:02 <Annil> I just can't get the computer players do build any vehicles, they build plenty of airports and busstops but no vehicles 04:08:11 <ajmiles> it's all part of their master plan 04:08:24 <Annil> thats not helping, they go bankrupt 04:08:28 <Annil> and i have to buy them over 04:10:59 <PeterT> Can you open the AI debug window? 04:11:05 <PeterT> read the errors, perhaps? 04:12:26 <PeterT> if there are any, of course 04:12:28 <Annil> ok will try that 04:17:22 *** Annil [~neopet_bo@203-213-29-58-cbr-ts7-2600.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 04:18:06 <PeterT> I was sort of hoping he would report something back 04:18:37 <ajmiles> that would have been too helpful 04:19:09 <PeterT> My bad 04:23:32 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:27:25 *** teshiron [~teshiron@76.14.61.104] has joined #openttd 04:33:38 <De_Ghosty> ai are such hottible players 04:33:48 <De_Ghosty> horrible* 04:34:51 <ajmiles> are there any AI that can beat human players? 04:36:52 <PeterT> No 04:37:33 <ajmiles> why has one not been written? simply too difficult? 04:39:16 <PeterT> What would qualify as "beat the human", exactly? 04:39:41 <ajmiles> in a given time accrue more money than a human can 04:40:11 <ajmiles> humans being limited by their slow building :) 04:40:53 <PeterT> Ah 04:41:18 <PeterT> Trains AI, or whatever was quite good 04:41:40 <PeterT> had presignals and everything 04:41:46 <ajmiles> when AI build things incrementally is that by design, or does the AI framework only allow the AI to make a certain number of actions per tick? 04:41:51 <PeterT> and it built an entire long coal line in one game month 04:42:10 <ajmiles> because presumably an AI could build an entire network in a single tick (money notwithstanding) 05:00:04 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 05:05:15 <PeterT> I'm off 05:05:17 <PeterT> night 05:05:52 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:44 *** ecke [~ecke@211.143.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke] 05:34:15 <teshiron> I like the new ability to sort stations by lowest cargo rating (in 1.0.0), but the ascending/descending behavior seems backwards to me. 05:34:33 <ajmiles> backwards how? 05:37:31 <De_Ghosty> http://yfrog.com/0atestaqj 05:38:17 <De_Ghosty> the ai just out build you 05:38:32 <De_Ghosty> and mess up ur play with tracks everywhere 05:39:20 <ajmiles> i guess that's a problem 05:40:04 <ajmiles> less so on a larger map though 05:40:19 <ajmiles> on 2048x2048 you could somehow agree to use 1024x2048 each :) 05:41:38 <De_Ghosty> nah 05:41:50 <De_Ghosty> i haven't seen the train ai in action 05:44:28 <teshiron> backwards in the sense that when you sort descendingly on "lowest cargo rating", the top of the list is the lowest and the ratings *increase* as you go down the list 05:44:53 <teshiron> when I choose "descending" for a sort, I naturally expect the numerical values involved to, well, descend. :) 05:45:33 <ajmiles> it is right how it is 05:45:40 <teshiron> how so? 05:45:48 <ajmiles> when you sort descendingly, you want the most lowest cargo rating at the top :) 05:46:47 <ajmiles> if you were sorting by maximum speed descendingly then yes, the numbers would get smaller as you go down. but lower numbers in this case are "better", so should be at the top 05:46:56 <teshiron> see, I expected it to behave the same, numerically, as the old "cargo rating" sort, but instead sort on the lowest rating at the station instead of the highest 05:47:12 <teshiron> I did not expect the sort itself to be reversed 05:47:27 <teshiron> and I wouldn't be surprised if it confuses others if it actually gets released that way 05:47:32 <ajmiles> well, the old one is the same was "highest cargo rating" is now 05:47:47 <teshiron> right. 05:47:47 <ajmiles> so it makes sense that lowest cargo rating should be sorted oppositely 05:47:58 <teshiron> no, not at all 05:48:14 <sparr> it never makes sense for 1 2 3 4 5 to be "descending" 05:48:19 <teshiron> *exactly* 05:48:30 <ajmiles> it does is the sort category is "lowest numbers first" 05:48:33 <ajmiles> *if the 05:48:42 <teshiron> but that's just it 05:49:09 <teshiron> I don't necessarily want the lowest numbers first... I just want it to pick from the lowest rating of the multiple cargoes at my station 05:49:26 <teshiron> and whether I choose to sort ascending or descending, the numbers involved should make sense 05:49:37 <teshiron> rather, the order of the numbers 05:49:38 * teshiron shrugs 05:49:56 <ajmiles> when a station has multiple cargoes what is the 'value' for a given station? 05:50:04 <ajmiles> 'any' ? 05:50:19 <ajmiles> ie, when sorting by highest cargo rating it picks the highest and when sorting by lowest it picks the lowest? 05:50:25 <teshiron> that's correct 05:50:29 <teshiron> formerly, it was always the highest 05:50:45 <ajmiles> but then how would you ever find a low cargo rating on a station? 05:50:52 <teshiron> you wouldn't 05:50:57 <teshiron> that's why they implemented the new sort :D 05:51:37 <ajmiles> i think at the end of the day it's probably just preference, and to get it the way you want it's only one extra mouse click to invert the list. is that the only problem with it? 05:51:53 <teshiron> I'm not talking about the effort involved to flip the list 05:52:03 <teshiron> I'm talking about the confusion incurred 05:52:35 <teshiron> it took me a good three or four flips of the list around before I figured exactly what it was doing, and I expect others would be similarly confused, especially if they're used to using the old sort 05:52:49 <teshiron> and I don't consider myself particularly slow on the uptake. :) 05:53:10 <teshiron> but you're right, I can make the list do what I want, and the direction of the arrow is not of earth-shaking importance. 05:53:14 <ajmiles> i'm only used to the new one (not because i haven't played openttd before, but because i never used the old one), and it does exactly what I'd expect it to. 05:53:53 <ajmiles> lets me find the lowest and highest cargo ratings of given stations, i guess I'm saying I don't quite understand the problem :) 05:54:09 <ajmiles> but then it won't be up to me to fix it, so it doesn't matter too much 05:56:28 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:38 <teshiron> yeah, I didn't think I was explaining myself clearly :) 05:56:55 <teshiron> I meant, from the perspective of user interface design, one wants one's interface to be self-consistent 05:57:08 <teshiron> ascending sorts mean that numbers should go up, and descending sorts mean numbers should go down 05:57:15 <teshiron> regardless of what value one is sorting by. 05:57:21 <ajmiles> mmm I think that's where I disagree 05:57:44 <ajmiles> what if the sort category was (theoretically) "Breakdowns per year"? descending should have the best at the top 05:57:48 <ajmiles> ie "0" 05:58:16 <ajmiles> i know we're talking about vehicles rather than stations, but I'm talking UI generally 05:58:56 <ajmiles> whereas "Reliability" descending would have "100%" at the top and "0%" at the bottom 05:59:16 <teshiron> but breakdowns per year doesn't imply, by title, whether that's "I want good vehicles" or "I want bad vehicles" 05:59:39 <teshiron> if the interface always sorts strictly numerically, then a user has much more of a chance to intuit the correct sort on the first try 06:00:36 <ajmiles> if the user had that station dialog set to "Descending / Highest Cargo Rating" you'd expect the highest at the top of the list right? 06:01:10 <teshiron> only because I expect descending sorts to always have the highest number at the top of the list, out of whatever is being measured 06:01:17 <teshiron> not because of the name of the sort 06:01:21 <ajmiles> what I think would be strange is for the user to then change the category to "Lowest Cargo Rating" and in effect the list would barely change order 06:01:36 <ajmiles> (assuming one cargo type per station) 06:01:49 <teshiron> now, you do raise an interesting point there. 06:02:11 <teshiron> however, there's no point for having the two different sorts if there's only one cargo per station -- that's what the ascend/descend is for :) 06:02:45 <teshiron> I think this one really is just a difference of opinion after all... 06:03:10 <ajmiles> also, without loading up the game to check, it doesn't actually show numbers on the list does it? 06:03:27 <teshiron> not directly in the list, not actual numbers 06:03:27 <ajmiles> it's just a list of station names iirc 06:03:41 <teshiron> the bars under the icons for the waiting cargos are colored green/red to approximate the rating 06:03:46 <teshiron> but not actual numbers 06:03:54 <teshiron> (and the bar is like 1px big) 06:04:14 <ajmiles> yeah, it's a bit hard to see, and in fact i've never taken the time to work out what it meant :) 06:04:50 <teshiron> yes, it's the rating for that particular cargo :) 06:05:39 <ajmiles> what might be useful is if when sorting by highest/lowest cargo rating it actually had the %age and name of cargo written explicitly 06:05:48 <ajmiles> just the one cargo type by which it go its position in that list 06:05:52 <ajmiles> *got 06:07:24 <teshiron> for most regular games, that would be great... it would worry me a bit at some kind of megastation with 6 or 7 different cargoes waiting, that it would be harder to see everything at a glance 06:07:47 <teshiron> but in the vast majority of my games, I don't get anywhere near that many at any one station 06:08:16 <ajmiles> well that was my point, it would only be for the highest/lowest cargo rating sort categories, it would pick just the one cargo type for that station (either highest or lowest) and put it next to the station name 06:08:28 <ajmiles> if you were sorting by... total cargo value it wouldn't display any explicitly 06:08:31 <ajmiles> or name 06:09:12 <ajmiles> the total cargo value one is a bit of a mystery to me too, by what measure does it have value before it's transported anywhere? 06:10:10 <ajmiles> it could use the cargo payment graph and just do a lookup for 10 days 10 squares transported, but different cargoes have different falloffs depending on distance/time 06:10:40 <teshiron> yeah, I think it probably uses the early delivery rate (the start of the graph) 06:11:35 <ajmiles> it could try and be smarter and try and work out how much a given unit of cargo from the industry that supplied it makes the player on average (until that point) 06:12:16 <ajmiles> 1000 tons of coal at one station transported 10 squares in effect has lower value than 100 tons at a station where i'll transport it 2000 squares. but perhaps that's a different category altogether 06:12:35 <teshiron> mm, that would require it to store that data somewhere 06:13:00 * ajmiles has some spare RAM :) 06:13:17 <teshiron> and I don't know as it does that... though perhaps it could do a quick calculation based on average profit of the vehicles at that station carrying that cargo type 06:13:55 <teshiron> since any particular originating station might have the same cargo dropped off at an infinite number of destinations, I think calculating actual values would fail badly. 06:14:13 <teshiron> (infinite limited by the maximum number of stations, etc, but you get my point) 06:14:16 <ajmiles> yup 06:16:43 <ajmiles> i'm surprised there aren't more graphs/tables of information in openttd, a given game must be a gold mine (forgive the pun) of information 06:17:35 <ajmiles> but I guess if a lot of it is never stored it might be a bit tricky 06:18:27 <ajmiles> i've often wanted to see a breakdown of profit by cargo type 06:31:53 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:13 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:57 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:03:18 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:17:17 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:20:21 *** teshiron [~teshiron@76.14.61.104] has quit [] 07:20:28 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:22:49 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:44:38 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:22 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 08:10:33 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 08:10:59 <Terkhen> good morning 08:11:42 <Forked> morning :) 08:13:27 <sparr> somewhere 08:14:35 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-12f6e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:02:02 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:02:02 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:04 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.80] has joined #openttd 09:06:20 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-157-152-237.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:07:19 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 09:28:14 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:16 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 09:51:01 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 10:01:20 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 10:07:00 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has joined #openttd 10:07:50 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.46.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:11 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-157-152-237.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:12:29 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-157-152-237.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:15:17 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:23:37 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm6.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 10:24:20 <edeca> Morning indeed 10:27:49 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:32:30 <edeca> Heh, is this a newgrf bug if this is displayed in an aircraft's information: "150 crates of goodsAllow building very long bridges: undefined string" 10:33:08 <Rubidium> possibly 10:34:51 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiw249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 10:36:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:37:43 <planetmaker> very easy to achieve that error :-) A typo in the newgrf code is sufficient 10:41:22 <edeca> I've never seen it before, it made me chuckle 10:42:08 <planetmaker> which newgrf is it WAS alpha? 10:42:56 <edeca> It's the aircraft replacement set, but I forget which one 10:43:10 <edeca> av8 10:43:18 <planetmaker> you could then do them a favour and file a bug report at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlineset 10:43:25 <planetmaker> oh, hm. Dunno about that :-) 10:43:34 <planetmaker> it's pikka's newgrf, is it? 10:44:14 <edeca> Yep yep 10:44:24 <edeca> I've never seen the world airline set, thanks! 10:44:41 <edeca> Is it possible to show the shortcut keys for commands on the right click menu? 10:44:51 <edeca> I mean, when you right click on a button 10:50:53 <planetmaker> it is possible. Just make a better translation to include it. 10:52:14 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:54:42 <edeca> Ah, it's in the translation. Would it be an improvement that would be wanted though? 11:02:15 <planetmaker> well. If it's English it's obviously not a translation. But... well. Depends upon newgrf author whether it's wante 11:02:17 <planetmaker> d 11:03:59 <edeca> I meant for the game, not a newgrf 11:04:44 <planetmaker> well. If the string is newgrf specific, it should supply the translation itself. 11:08:17 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-86-0-80-194.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:11:17 *** Netsplit joule.oftc.net <-> solenoid.oftc.net quits: planetmaker, ccfreak2k, XeryusTC, HerzogDeXtEr1, tneo, ashb, LadyHawk, SmatZ, Katje, murr4y, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 11:12:23 *** Netsplit over, joins: Loffe, xopek, edeca, LadyHawk, jpm, rellig, murr4y, ccfreak2k, __ln, Andel (+14 more) 11:12:48 <andythenorth> woah there spartacus 11:13:26 * andythenorth needs to bravely enter the world of industry tiles 11:18:16 *** mib_1ymjuo [4feea8a3@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:18:42 <mib_1ymjuo> hiho, i have a question: how to i finish my openttd game (single mode) 11:18:43 <mib_1ymjuo> ? 11:20:13 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:21 <KingJ> When you reach 2050, but you can contine after that 11:21:02 <mib_1ymjuo> thank you, i finished 2050 but nothing happend 11:22:42 <mib_1ymjuo> thank you1 11:22:47 *** mib_1ymjuo [4feea8a3@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 11:27:35 <Terkhen> good luck andythenorth 11:28:09 <andythenorth> trying to figure out how to code a fishing harbour (industry) that transcends the coastline 11:31:08 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:47:45 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.96.67] has joined #openttd 11:49:17 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:50:03 *** kolen [~Miranda@189.52.pppoe.mari-el.ru] has joined #openttd 11:50:07 *** tomko [~tomko@82.166.54.206] has joined #openttd 11:51:21 <andythenorth> hmmm.....wiki hunting 11:51:49 <andythenorth> oil refineries must be built within n tiles of the coast. I was hoping that behaviour was exposed in nfo 11:51:54 <andythenorth> but I can't find a property for it 11:52:09 <andythenorth> I can use the industry construction callback, but I was hoping for a short cut :) 11:53:09 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Industries 11:54:28 <Ammler> andythenorth: doesn't that apply to the default refinery only? 11:54:36 <andythenorth> possibly 11:54:50 <andythenorth> maybe I'll just write the construction callback code 11:54:52 <Ammler> iirc, ECS does place those on the whole map 11:55:43 *** lewymati2 [~lewymati@aejc8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:56:26 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aeiw249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:57:47 <planetmaker> I guess it's possible to write a newgrf also in the form of 11:57:49 <planetmaker> -1 * 0 00 0B \b01 01 ID 0F \b1 // changing one property of one cargo: weight of one unit 11:57:50 <planetmaker> -1 * 0 00 0B \b01 01 ID 10 \b0 // changing one property of one cargo: penalty times 11:57:52 <planetmaker> for with ID being the same in two lines. And both lines modify the cargo so that it has both changes in the end, right? 11:58:30 <planetmaker> ^ andythenorth ? 11:59:33 <andythenorth> yes 11:59:41 <andythenorth> commonly we wrap that in an action 7 11:59:55 <andythenorth> (to modify properties conditionally) 12:01:18 <planetmaker> well, yes, maybe :-) I still don't want to discared action6 :-) 12:02:09 <andythenorth> :) 12:02:22 <andythenorth> Action 6 looks like it will involve a lot hex maths 12:02:32 <andythenorth> but maybe I'm misreading the wiki 12:02:56 <planetmaker> yes... maybe. But I *think* that we could just write previously our own non-public grfparameter and use that. 12:03:22 <planetmaker> and then we can re-use that parameter. But not sure that makes sense 12:03:38 <andythenorth> it makes sense 12:03:47 <andythenorth> I don't know if it's possible (or easiest) 12:03:55 <planetmaker> that I don't know either. 12:03:59 <andythenorth> Action 7 route is brutal and simple :D 12:04:07 <planetmaker> indeed 12:04:15 *** tomko [~tomko@82.166.54.206] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC5-1.0 -- Are we there yet?] 12:04:34 <planetmaker> action7 works in any case, I think 12:04:36 <andythenorth> I'll paste something 12:06:29 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/220772 12:07:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^^ I think the templating would be quite minimal on that route. 12:07:38 <andythenorth> templating almost not needed, except it would help prevent typos etc 12:09:44 <planetmaker> well... currently the template are per cargo. and not per cargo property. That's quite a big change. 12:10:00 <planetmaker> I propose to rather put the action7 sequence in a template itself and call that from the cargo template. 12:10:32 <andythenorth> yes that would make sense 12:10:35 <planetmaker> even on the cost that the action7 sequence is included (industry number) times into the NFO. But we have to take care of it only once 12:10:38 <andythenorth> I think it makes more action 7s? 12:10:50 <andythenorth> but that isn't a problem with templating 12:10:55 <planetmaker> exactly 12:11:06 <planetmaker> but it's not nice. But it works for now and doesn't hurt 12:11:13 <planetmaker> just makes the grf a bit bigger. 12:11:17 <andythenorth> how to structure storing the variables? 12:11:44 <planetmaker> you don't have to store any var, if you go for the action7 approach... 12:12:07 <planetmaker> just always check the grf param and include the proper action0 with the property/ies you query 12:12:08 <planetmaker> or? 12:12:33 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest800 12:12:36 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-86-31-43-131.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:12:48 <planetmaker> let me paste something :-) 12:12:51 <andythenorth> cool 12:13:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r18651 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_order.hpp: -Fix [FS#3438](r18518): [NoAI] When AI tried to create NO_UNLOAD order, GOTO_NEAREST_DEPOT order was created instead 12:13:33 <Ammler> well, you should also take care of performance, i.e. ECS uses a lot more CPU 12:13:59 <planetmaker> that's a one-time only thing. 12:14:09 <andythenorth> Ammler: what he said 12:14:19 <Ammler> ok :-) 12:14:27 <andythenorth> Although I am working on something else that will have performance concerns 12:14:33 <andythenorth> I will need help with that! (later) 12:16:00 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 12:16:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 14 hours, 47 minutes, and 1 second ago: <frosch123> wito, george: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2420 <- looks intentional 12:16:09 <andythenorth> :| 12:16:25 <andythenorth> I need to know how expensive cb 28 is 12:16:44 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks#Industry_location_permissibility_28_ 12:17:16 *** carstep [~carstep@host-92-63-244-54.hirsat.hu] has joined #openttd 12:17:21 <carstep> Hi 12:17:41 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9E90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:17:42 <carstep> does anybody got the message that AI is unable to load? 12:17:52 <carstep> 1.0.0 beta 12:18:05 *** Guest800 [~markmac@client-86-0-80-194.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:19:29 <carstep> is everybody away? 12:19:45 <SmatZ> no 12:19:49 <carstep> ok 12:20:10 <carstep> I'm very new to this, I used the 0.5 one whithout any problems 12:20:27 <andythenorth> I get AI debug message in 0.7.4 at the start of the game 12:20:33 <carstep> checked out that the openttd group has been doing a great job 12:21:01 *** carstep [~carstep@host-92-63-244-54.hirsat.hu] has quit [] 12:21:24 <SmatZ> carstep: does the "AI Debug" window open? 12:21:27 <SmatZ> ... 12:22:29 *** carstep [~carstep@host-92-63-244-54.hirsat.hu] has joined #openttd 12:23:02 *** carstep [~carstep@host-92-63-244-54.hirsat.hu] has quit [] 12:24:32 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:24:33 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 12:24:33 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 12:24:40 <dragonhorseboy> hey 12:27:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://paste.openttd.org/220773 <-- my idea how to solve it. Using action7s 12:28:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I guess it's alright. Industries are not built every tick 12:28:35 <planetmaker> (concerning CB 28) 12:29:03 <planetmaker> I just have a request: don't make it restrictive. That sucks majorly 12:29:19 <planetmaker> Especially (within given distance of town of size...). I hate that :-) 12:29:34 <planetmaker> It's a pain if you have bigger towns, thus basically fails there. 12:30:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'll look at that paste, thanks 12:30:22 <andythenorth> in respect of restrictions 12:30:29 <andythenorth> most will be very unrestricted 12:30:31 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:30:41 *** Ammler [~ammler@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:30:42 <andythenorth> I don't like 'cannot be built near similar industry' etc 12:30:52 <planetmaker> yes, also that is a pain. 12:31:09 <andythenorth> actually, this morning I added to my todo list changing the Bakery and Brewery to be less restrictive 12:31:10 <dragonhorseboy> andy well I kinda think its a double edge sword 12:31:22 <planetmaker> I think the only thing needed is like "harbour at shore" or "bank within town". 12:31:22 <dragonhorseboy> you wouldn't want to build a coal mine only 4 tiles far from a powerplant? 12:31:27 <planetmaker> and similar easy cases 12:31:38 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: I don't mind that 12:31:45 <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: of course. why not? 12:31:46 <andythenorth> just run a bulldozer :D 12:32:02 <planetmaker> it's even realistic 12:32:07 <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker if the powerplant is right next to the coal mine why does it even need your business? :) 12:32:35 <andythenorth> well yes, there is that 12:32:38 <planetmaker> you provide the cars / transport. Even 100m may be important. 12:32:44 <andythenorth> and then there is the overlapping station problem 12:32:50 <andythenorth> which means you can full load both ways 12:32:52 <andythenorth> kind of a cheat 12:32:56 <planetmaker> and if you don't like it, dragonhorseboy, don't ship that 2 tiles distance 12:33:01 * dragonhorseboy would rather do at least 12+ tiles even for horses 12:33:15 <planetmaker> and it wouldn't pay anyway 12:33:15 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth...lol that one :) 12:33:34 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: I see your point 12:33:43 <andythenorth> but coding to prevent it is a headache 12:33:50 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth there is one thing I rather hate tho 12:34:07 <andythenorth> yes? 12:34:29 <dragonhorseboy> steel mill in pikka's and certain chemical industries in ecs-chemical-vector ... these thing are so effing difficult to keep balanced without messing up your network's traffic 12:34:50 <andythenorth> FIRS won't have balancing 12:34:55 <roboboy> yeah 12:34:57 <dragonhorseboy> I prefer not to have to worry how much of A I need compared to B just to be able to get C output 12:35:03 <andythenorth> I've thought about it for Steel Mill and Cement Plant 12:35:09 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth...hmm nice 12:35:16 <andythenorth> Balancing would be more realistic, but it's a headache 12:35:26 <andythenorth> OzTrans has it right with industries in CanSet 3 12:35:30 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth I always find coal to be a lot more plenty than ore for starters 12:36:01 <andythenorth> CanSet 3 metal plant has an (unrealistic) 'reserve' of coal, which makes for better gameplay 12:36:05 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d77e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:36:12 <andythenorth> I'll figure something similar out for FIRS 12:36:29 <dragonhorseboy> and the chemical vectors .. well .. lets say you need to do raw1>raw2 then raw2>raw3 then raw4+raw3=output ... I never could ever get it to work nicely at all 12:36:53 <dragonhorseboy> at least ecs thankfully is made that you can only use the vectors you want to so I've always left the chemical one out 12:37:12 <dragonhorseboy> never used machinery too .. seem a bit odd to me 12:38:14 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. one of the silly thing with pikka's coal reserve .. is the coal mine almost always goes down to <80 tonnes output (even if it used to be 640 tonnes etc) and stay there all the times even if less than 20% of the reserve had been used up 12:38:52 <dragonhorseboy> it was a bit of a headache in jonty's IS2 game .. I had to pull up most of my rails four times before I finally decided to stop bother doing coal business anymore because it was seeming too 'unstable' 12:38:56 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: have you tried FIRS? 12:39:08 <dragonhorseboy> andythenorth .. no .. was about to go check it out in a sec heh 12:39:34 <andythenorth> it's work in progress, but a lot of it is playable 12:39:53 <andythenorth> some industries aren't coded, and there are some weird production values 12:39:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you really going to make primary industries limited? :-( 12:39:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: no 12:40:00 <andythenorth> never 12:40:07 <planetmaker> I hate to constantly re-build my network... good :-) *relieved* 12:40:27 <andythenorth> but remember we are planning to close industry types on mass with different 'eras' 12:41:28 <planetmaker> well... my idea back then was basically rather an upgrade. 12:42:24 <dragonhorseboy> I think I'll stick to default industries (its set to 'very low' anyway) for now .. but I'll see about FIRS another time ok? ;) 12:42:26 <planetmaker> hm... what about building it (preferentially) adjacent to the old type... and close the old one, if new type is adjacent (for certain definitions of 'adjacent') 12:42:54 <andythenorth> the ones that would close include: blacksmith, windmill (grain mill), and guano mine 12:42:57 <andythenorth> most won't close 12:43:06 <dragonhorseboy> nice to have a milk cargo source .. hopefully nars/canset would soon provide the 50's milk wagons to transport these perhaps (well they looked like half height boxcars) 12:44:49 <andythenorth> dragonhorseboy: seen the FIRS site? http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/industries 12:45:01 <dragonhorseboy> yeah already there 12:46:23 <andythenorth> list of what's coded: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/industries_coders 12:46:50 <andythenorth> or a better one here: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/code_status_hotlist 12:47:00 <andythenorth> most of what isn't coded isn't essential 12:47:18 <andythenorth> try it in a week maybe...I'll have finished some more things by then :D 12:49:03 *** kolen [~Miranda@189.52.pppoe.mari-el.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:53:18 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 12:54:01 *** kratt [~kratt@80-235-49-63-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 13:04:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18652 /trunk/src/ (company_gui.cpp misc_gui.cpp): -Fix: glitches due to having the wrong bounding boxes for the face widgets 13:05:00 <peter1138> andythenorth, "en masse" ;) 13:05:34 <andythenorth> brain = fail :O 13:05:50 <andythenorth> also: pedant award :D 13:05:57 <peter1138> :D 13:06:07 *** Luukland [~Luukland@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:21 *** mikegrb_ [~michael@mail.thegrebs.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:14:21 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-86-31-43-131.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:16:06 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-81-109-216-215.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:16:25 <andythenorth> I need to build an industry that transcends the coast 13:16:28 <andythenorth> using cb 28 13:16:34 <andythenorth> which is going to be more optimal 13:16:44 <andythenorth> building on water and checking for coast tiles 13:16:52 <andythenorth> or building on land and checking for water tiles 13:16:54 <andythenorth> :D 13:16:55 <andythenorth> ? 13:18:46 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ccef:3c32:fe53:c6cc] has joined #openttd 13:18:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:19:56 *** kratt [~kratt@80-235-49-63-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:03 *** MyCatSchemes [~mycatverb@5ac7ac11.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:37:03 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 13:38:22 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:42:50 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has joined #openttd 13:46:30 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-211-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:36 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-165-129-240.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:06 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 14:10:25 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 14:11:00 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:18:03 *** dragonhorseboy [~zerovnc@modemcable246.69-58-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 14:19:32 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:41 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B25EA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:54 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2DA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:21:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:27:52 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 14:29:45 *** Polygon [~Poly@kerberos.wh2.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 14:31:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D56.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77D56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:34 *** JVassie^ [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:32:25 <Sacro> http://www.openttd.org/en/download-testing 14:32:36 <Sacro> can I provide a gramatically correct bit? 14:32:45 <Sacro> there's a fair few grammer/spelling issues 14:34:02 <Rubidium> yes, preferably as a diff to svn://svn.openttd.org/extra/website :) 14:34:45 <Elessar> Hello. 14:35:50 <Elessar> I saw that OpenSFX is distributed under CC Sampling Plus. 14:36:15 <Sacro> Rubidium: perhaps i shall 14:36:28 <Elessar> That licence will be source of problems for it distribution by free distro, as it forbids somes derivative works. 14:36:34 <Elessar> Is that wanted? 14:36:58 <planetmaker> You're free to provide sounds released under the GPL license, Elessar 14:37:12 <planetmaker> And make a sound set which is then under GPL 14:37:28 <Elessar> I know I am, I am just not an artist, I was just asking about OpenSFX. 14:37:31 <Rubidium> Elessar: no, but *all* but one samples are coming from a repository that provides them under CC Sampling Plus, the other is under public domain 14:38:03 <Elessar> Okay, that is the explaination, then. I understand. 14:38:35 *** JVassie [~TheExile^@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:42 <Rubidium> anyhow, if distributions are really picky they can always distribute "NoSound" and let people download OpenSFX from within the game if they want to have actual sounds 14:39:22 <Elessar> Yes, that is what shall be done, I guess. 14:39:48 <Elessar> Maybe it would be worth mentionning the fact that the licence is inherited from somewhere else? 14:40:32 <Sacro> mmm 14:40:37 <Sacro> might have to write some packages for ArchLinux 14:40:47 <Sacro> perhaps openttd-opengfx and openttd-opensfx 14:41:24 * peter1138 ponders restarting his server 14:41:25 <peter1138> 2057 :s 14:55:33 *** Polygon [~Poly@kerberos.wh2.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:16 <PeterT> anyone know what hs.dat is for? 15:05:27 <Ammler> don't most distros have a special "non-free" repo? 15:06:19 <peter1138> highscores 15:07:42 <Ammler> hmm, CC Sampling Plus doesn't allow derivate work? 15:11:01 *** mib_gypuof [5d0e7951@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:11:02 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:11:20 *** mib_gypuof [5d0e7951@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [] 15:13:26 <PeterT> Thanks peter1138 15:13:30 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2DA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Icebears are cute. Please, take care of them!] 15:14:02 *** tokai [~tokai@p5B2B2DA3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:14:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:16:17 *** lewymati2 [~lewymati@aejc8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 15:16:17 <SpComb^> yay, got a friend first-time-addicted to OpenTTD once I mentioned the free graphics 15:16:34 <Luukland> :S 15:17:11 <PeterT> Lol 15:19:14 *** teshi|work [~teshiron@64.56.206.254] has joined #openttd 15:23:53 <Zuu> It was suggested (i think it was Ammler) in another irc channel that OpenSFX really should be renamed to FreeSFX because of the current license. 15:24:49 <Luukland> lol @ PeterT at your comment on the banned on the ttforum :P 15:25:06 <PeterT> Hmm? 15:25:07 <PeterT> post? 15:25:20 <Luukland> Yeah, regarding the question; What version are u running :P 15:25:52 <PeterT> Wait, are you laughing at me, or with me? 15:26:00 <Luukland> with you :) 15:26:03 <PeterT> ahh 15:26:11 <PeterT> sarcasm machine is borked 15:26:40 <PeterT> why was he banned, anyway? 15:31:38 <peter1138> why not? 15:32:03 <PeterT> For fun? 15:32:42 <Luukland> I dont know, we have been running the server for 2 weeks now 15:32:45 <Muxy> for life 15:32:52 <Luukland> and already 60 banned ppl or so 15:33:15 <Luukland> some servers use 3 strike = out, we use 1 strike = out 15:35:10 <Luukland> Most of them probably get banned for "massive terraforming" 15:35:22 <SpComb^> define 15:35:36 <PeterT> oh, my trains need to go through montains 15:36:13 <PeterT> that kind 15:36:41 <Luukland> well, a bit more severe 15:36:43 <SpComb^> just drag and drop your track in a straight line over whatever happens to be in the way, I'm sure the trains won't mind going up and down fifty times 15:37:01 <Luukland> like "I want to flatten the map, and write my name in it and then leave" 15:37:09 <Luukland> That kind of terraforming 15:37:56 <Luukland> Or just the usual: "I like water everywhere" 15:42:33 <Luukland> but luckely this kind of abuse is getting less every day since the introduction of the campaign, which means I have some spare time again :) 15:43:01 <PeterT> You said you had "documentation on how to get off the ban" 15:43:04 <PeterT> where can I find this? 15:43:45 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has joined #openttd 15:43:56 <PeterT> Luukland: There is a typo on this page: http://luukland.goulp.net/rules 15:43:58 * SpComb^ is happy playing alone, or private co-op 15:44:04 <PeterT> "Still if you might freel unjustifiedly" 15:44:24 <PeterT> "Still if you might freel unjustifiedly" 15:46:03 <Luukland> Ah 15:46:10 <Luukland> thx 15:46:46 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:53 <PeterT> and what kind of rule is "no one-way trains"? 15:48:03 <PeterT> wth does that even mean xD 15:48:37 <Luukland> Ah, for that I must refer you to the page of the competition, gimme 10 secs 15:49:24 <PeterT> Aparrently restrictions to building != competition 15:49:58 <PeterT> It's been 10 seconds... 15:50:15 <peter1138> # Maximum of 1 company per primary industry (coal, ore, oil, etc.) 15:50:19 <peter1138> ^ pathetic rule 15:50:53 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@adsl-99-163-83-110.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:56 <PeterT> That one removes most competition 15:51:12 <Luukland> PeterT, can't find it but it is quite simple: You buy train, let it make cash, sell it at the end, and build a new train at the start, thus saving journey time 15:52:02 <PeterT> why not? let them do what they want 15:52:16 <PeterT> i'm sure most of us have enough of a life not to do that 15:52:34 <Luukland> Indeed most of you, some ppl go mad when it is about exp 15:54:44 <Luukland> peter1138, might I ask your opinion about the current cargo algorithm regarding 2 competing stations? 15:58:52 *** Lurimax [~george@ti0028a380-dhcp0819.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:00:01 *** Lurimax [~george@ti0028a380-dhcp0819.bb.online.no] has quit [] 16:01:26 <peter1138> ... 16:02:08 <Luukland> is that your final answer ^^ 16:03:11 <andythenorth> peter1138: how about this one: I want to deliver FIRS engineering supplies to a station that has two overlapping industries and have it split the load between them 16:03:21 <andythenorth> (substitute cargo x for engineering supplies) 16:03:39 <Rubidium> Zuu: but OpenSFX is less free than OpenGFX in the sense of "free as in speech" 16:03:47 <andythenorth> right now I have to faff about with a lot trucks and feeder services 16:04:04 * andythenorth remembers...trucks are good 16:04:20 <andythenorth> but 'last mile' feeders that lose money are not 16:04:46 <Zuu> Rubidium: That is true, perhaps FreeAsInBeerSFX then :-p 16:05:57 *** jvlomax [~george@ti0028a380-dhcp0819.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 16:06:33 <Coco-Banana-Man> [17:03:29] <andythenorth> peter1138: how about this one: I want to deliver FIRS engineering supplies to a station that has two overlapping industries and have it split the load between them <--- btw: Does CargoDist do something like that? Or does it only choose a specific station? 16:07:03 <andythenorth> cargodist is stations only isn't it? I haven't tried it but I follow the thread... 16:07:21 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:08:22 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:55 <Zuu> andythenorth: What would it be more than stations? 16:11:10 <andythenorth> specific tiles 16:11:16 <andythenorth> which as far as I know would be insane 16:12:04 *** roboboy is now known as robobed 16:12:27 <Zuu> Can't give a 100 sure answer on that, since I have neither followed that project close enought. 16:21:27 <peter1138> simutrans manages that 16:21:53 <peter1138> tile to tile would be pretty neat 16:22:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-157-152-237.range86-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:23:43 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:10 *** ecke [~ecke@211.143.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 16:25:23 *** Luukland [~Luukland@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: OpenTTD Campaign, OpenTTD servers; luukland.goulp.net] 16:26:56 <PeterT> Luukland advertises his servers as if nobody has heard of servers.openttd.org 16:27:56 *** Dreamxtreme_ [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 16:29:38 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm6.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has left #openttd [Leaving] 16:31:54 <Ammler> Zuu: / Rubidium, isn't open more free? ;-) 16:32:20 <PeterT> Why can't we just agree on a simple license? 16:32:23 <PeterT> GPL v3? 16:32:39 <PeterT> (I only mention that one because it's the only one I know of :-)) 16:32:58 <Ammler> and already not compatible with openttd :-P 16:33:45 <PeterT> Ammler: What do you prefer as a license? 16:33:53 <peter1138> license for what? 16:33:54 <Ammler> no colors 16:34:17 <Kovensky> ISC 16:34:18 <PeterT> peter1138: the music replacment project 16:34:26 <Ammler> I wrote it there... 16:34:41 <PeterT> I don't have time to read all that license stuff 16:34:49 <PeterT> It doesn't even interest me 16:34:52 <Ammler> then don't ask... 16:35:03 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:05 <peter1138> quite 16:35:24 <Kovensky> WTFPL 16:35:49 <Kovensky> text of the ISC: "Permission to use, copy, modify, and/or distribute this software for any purpose with or without fee is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice and this permission notice appear in all copies." 16:36:24 <PeterT> with or without? 16:37:16 <Kovensky> basically, just do wtf you want with it as long as you tell everyone they also can do wtf they want with it AND keep the copyright notice 16:37:46 <peter1138> wtf wtf wtf 16:39:29 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:54 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 16:41:09 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:41:48 *** muszek [~muszek@ip188-201.ghnet.pl] has joined #openttd 16:42:43 <muszek> hi... quick question: how fast does the time pass (in a regular mode) in openttd? I.E. how many minutes of real time is one year in game? 16:44:25 <Ammler> ~14 16:44:49 <peter1138> 13.5 16:46:38 <muszek> thanks 16:50:13 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:06:00 <teshi|work> (unless you've got so much going on in the game that your processor bogs down, but that's neither here nor there because you can't get any extra work done during those delays) 17:09:00 <sparr> 13.5 is such a strange number 17:09:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.167.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:35 <Ammler> one tic - 30ms, 74tics = 1day 17:11:48 <Ammler> he, not sure... 17:11:53 <PeterT> @calc 74*30 17:11:53 <DorpsGek> PeterT: 2220 17:12:01 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d199-126-251-5.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:05 <PeterT> @calc 2220/60 17:12:05 <DorpsGek> PeterT: 37 17:12:16 <SpComb^> 2220ms/day 17:12:42 <PeterT> @calc 2220/24 17:12:42 <DorpsGek> PeterT: 92.5 17:13:29 <Ammler> @calc 0.03*74*365/60 17:13:29 <DorpsGek> Ammler: 13.505 17:14:18 *** stephank [~traveler@84.25.113.14] has joined #openttd 17:14:51 *** stephank is now known as Guest845 17:17:08 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:19 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:20:54 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:47 *** weaselboy246 [~weaselboy@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:57 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-81-109-216-215.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:24 *** welshdragon [~markmac@client-81-109-216-215.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:33:49 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@cpc3-pool3-0-0-cust999.sotn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:05 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:47:58 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has joined #openttd 17:54:39 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.80] has joined #openttd 18:00:19 *** weaselboy246 [~weaselboy@67-54-241-148.cust.wildblue.net] has quit [Quit: Beware of the bearers of false gifts and broken promises. Much pain but there is still time. Believe. There is still good out there. We oppose the decieve] 18:02:09 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:04:43 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:07 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Don't follow me] 18:18:15 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@host81-135-85-113.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:25:13 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.20.231.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:34 *** worldemar [~woldemar@213.178.46.47] has joined #openttd 18:26:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18653 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#3442]: when trying to attach a wagon to an existing free wagon chain, don't attach it to itself 18:32:44 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:34:33 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 18:39:05 <andythenorth> midi files are pretty much their own source, no? 18:43:25 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r18654 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 36 changes by 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 5 changes by jpx_ 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf 18:45:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 27 changes by motorolavn, nglekhoi 18:45:43 *** robobed [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not neecessarily. if you use a sheet music program like capella, then that is the source 18:50:51 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:51:01 <andythenorth> interesting point 18:51:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but is it the prefered format for modifications? 18:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> per interpretation of the GPL, the source is whatever you make manual changes to 18:52:15 <Rubidium> don't forget the "machine readable" part 18:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> capella has its own storage format, that includes more than simple midi 18:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it can import and export midi, though. 18:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that makes it comparable to hand-crafted commented NFO or autogenerated grfcodec-NFO 18:58:25 <blathijs> PeterT: You mentioned something about a music replacement project, what was that about? 18:58:31 <andythenorth> well I am mostly staying out of the music licensing question....but I don't see why it can't be GPL 18:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> gpl for midi music is less problematic than for graphics 19:00:58 <blathijs> Unless you really want to keep your stuff from becoming closed, something MIT-ish or BSD-ish could be easier. 19:01:02 *** Madis [~stabuinte@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]] 19:01:50 <Rubidium> blathijs: problem with 'sound' people is that they generally don't want their stuff to end up in commercial stuff 19:02:32 <Rubidium> so I fear the freeer the license the smaller the chance they want to 'donate' 19:02:35 <sparr> is there any way to prevent another player from claiming land immediately after you terraform it? 19:02:48 <Rubidium> sparr: single player without AI 19:03:00 <MyCatSchemes> Doesn't planting signposts on it work? 19:03:06 <MyCatSchemes> The, uh, purchase land feature. 19:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> sparr: buy the land before terraforming 19:04:03 <sparr> s/land/water/ 19:04:26 <MyCatSchemes> Oh. Yes, you have a problem. 19:04:34 <sparr> is there any way to prevent another player from claiming land immediately after you create it from water via terraforming? 19:04:41 <MyCatSchemes> Use the keyboard shortcut, purchase immediately. :) 19:04:49 <andythenorth> when it comes to licensing work done for fun, some people measure loss in a strange way 19:05:13 <sparr> MyCatSchemes: am I mistaken or can you only purchase one tile at a time? 19:05:33 <sparr> andythenorth: almost all my photos online are licensed CC-BY-SA and CC-BY-NC 19:06:34 <sparr> MyCatSchemes: seems like they could just claim one tile and you'd be screwed 19:06:39 <sparr> long before you could claim many tiles 19:06:53 <sparr> unless you are proposing TF-claim-TF-claim-TF-claim, which is ridiculous 19:06:59 <MyCatSchemes> Can't you click-and-drag the purchase tool? 19:07:16 <Rubidium> sparr: if that's the way they want to compete, you just shouldn't play on that server (if the admin doesn't want to do something about it) 19:07:42 <MyCatSchemes> I didn't say it was a good solution. But flicking between 'q' and whichever key it is for purchase land will come close to working. 19:11:37 <worldemar> hi there... 19:11:53 <worldemar> i am testing openttd-1.0.0 beta1 19:12:23 <worldemar> is there a fast way to increase font size? 19:12:40 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:02 <worldemar> as i can see, fonts for russian and japanese are significantly larger than english, but i want to use english interface... 19:13:55 <Rubidium> change the font and font size in openttd.cfg 19:14:44 <worldemar> Rubidium: thanks alot 19:14:59 <worldemar> (how i didn't looked there?!) 19:21:15 <ajmiles> what text do those options affect? the entire game? 19:21:52 <ajmiles> i can't see any difference when I make the numbers in the cfg larger 19:22:18 <Alberth> all texts 19:22:31 <Rubidium> ajmiles: all text, but *only* when a different font than the default font is used 19:22:36 <ajmiles> ah 19:23:14 <ajmiles> yup, specifying a font makes it work, thanks 19:24:14 <worldemar> niiice 19:24:32 <worldemar> now we are ready for new year party haha 19:26:50 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.244.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r18655 /trunk/media/ (openttd.256.png openttd.svg): 19:26:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: the icon that is supposed to be 256x256 pixels wasn't 256x256 pixels 19:26:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Add: the 'source' for the icons 19:46:06 *** MyCatSchemes [~mycatverb@5ac7ac11.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:49 *** muszek [~muszek@ip188-201.ghnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:12:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:21:05 *** ecke [~ecke@211.143.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke] 20:22:51 *** Luukland [~Luukland@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 20:38:53 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.34.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:53:04 *** Vitas [~Vitas@rb3f235.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 20:53:15 <Vitas> hi people I need some advice please 20:53:24 <Vitas> how do I get the ip address of a server I am on? 20:54:11 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejc8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 20:54:32 <Luukland> in the join screen it is always visible 20:56:45 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@140.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 20:56:49 *** Guest845 [~traveler@84.25.113.14] has quit [Quit: * Whiff! *] 20:56:58 *** Terkhen is now known as Guest871 20:56:59 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 21:00:28 *** welshdragon_ [~markmac@client-82-26-76-175.bmly.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:29 *** welshdragon is now known as Guest873 21:00:29 *** welshdragon_ is now known as welshdragon 21:00:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-229-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 21:01:51 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9BA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:02:15 *** Guest871 [~Terkhen@137.68.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:17 *** MyCatSchemes [~mycatverb@5ac7ac11.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:02:32 <andythenorth> I am being beaten up by nfo again....trying to code an action 7 checking the value of a parameter 21:02:37 <Vitas> it is pointless if it is in the join screen when I am joined already ;-) 21:02:44 <Vitas> command status does not work in console 21:05:24 *** Luukland [~Luukland@main.goulp.net] has quit [Quit: OpenTTD Campaign, OpenTTD servers; luukland.goulp.net] 21:06:13 *** Guest873 [~markmac@client-81-109-216-215.leed.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:07 *** Vitas [~Vitas@rb3f235.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:21 *** Vitas [~Vitas@rb3f235.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 21:07:52 *** Vitas [~Vitas@rb3f235.net.upc.cz] has quit [] 21:09:32 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.29] has joined #openttd 21:10:51 <andythenorth> peter1138: (sorry to bother) can you help with a bad action 7? http://paste.openttd.org/220784 21:13:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 21:16:38 <jvlomax> calling out for music composers! if anyone wants to help compose music for OTTD, check out http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46479 21:16:53 <jvlomax> we need YOU! 21:21:32 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:23:39 <Noldo> hmm, composing 21:26:11 <sparr> is there a way to "outbid" another player on buying land? 21:26:24 <sparr> or any other mechanic for getting around aggressive land purchase? 21:27:57 *** DarkED [~J@cpe-075-176-105-070.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:30:12 <sparr> I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that public multiplayer is a waste of time. There are so many ways that one player can screw with another 21:30:46 <ashb> yeah 21:33:10 <Noldo> it only works if there is active administrating 21:35:24 <sparr> Noldo: which 20 years of online multiplayer games should show is a bad idea. 21:36:01 <sparr> costs me 0M to get around one griefer's 0k land purchase 21:38:59 * sparr sits idly until the next coop game starts 21:42:49 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:44:26 <Dreamxtreme> hmm 21:44:42 <Dreamxtreme> anyone fancy a coop of England and wales SCN ?? 21:45:49 <sparr> Dreamxtreme: I haven't done coop other than #openttdcoop, really big networks... what is the typical goal in a small coop? 21:46:16 <Dreamxtreme> idk lol 21:46:22 <Dreamxtreme> i just fancy a MP game 21:46:27 * Dreamxtreme is proper bored 21:46:29 * peter1138 grumbles at mass-terraformers 21:46:46 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has joined #openttd 21:47:01 * andythenorth grumbles at nfo...time to stop I guess 21:47:33 <sparr> peter1138: what game are you seeing mass tf in? 21:57:52 <peter1138> nah, it's not really 21:58:01 <peter1138> i just like hills to stay as they were ;p 22:02:17 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-198-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 22:03:44 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.112.20.231.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 22:05:34 <sparr> i just flattened about 10% of the map on the maxttd(?) server 22:05:44 <sparr> well, a bit ago now 22:05:56 <sparr> had to, to get around someone who was blocking my building with land purchases 22:06:25 *** nicfer1 [~nicolas@190.50.40.140] has joined #openttd 22:06:39 <nicfer1> hi 22:08:19 <nicfer1> one question, how can I configure a second instalation of openttd in my home folder to read the data files from another location than the data\ folder? 22:08:33 <Neon> Can anyone help me opening a dedicated server on debian lenny 32 bit? 22:09:20 <Neon> Beginning with what do I have to download? :/ 22:09:25 <Neon> Just OpenTTD? 22:09:45 <Neon> Or is there a special dedicated server application? 22:12:43 <Rubidium> you can download the 32 bits lenny package from the website; that supports a dedicated server, but it requires some libraries that would mean you have to include X. So the 'best' way is to compile a dedicated server yourself; ./configure --enable-dedicated 22:13:53 <Neon> Will I have to do something with X? It's a root server. 22:14:14 <Rubidium> nicfer1: in what way "from another location"? What kind of directory are you thinking of? 22:14:25 <Rubidium> Neon: if you compile yourself you don't need X 22:15:30 <nicfer1> ln -s did the trick 22:17:09 *** lazy_bum [~lazy_bum@chello089077212220.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 22:17:12 <lazy_bum> Hello. 22:17:43 <Rubidium> not too lazy though :) 22:18:40 <lazy_bum> I've made updated ebuilds for Gentoo Linux and now trying to fix my TODO list with open{g,s}fx from teh source. 22:19:00 <lazy_bum> But it ends with an ugly error about grfcodec not found. 22:19:10 <Rubidium> so package grfcodec too 22:19:12 <Rubidium> and nforenum 22:19:13 <planetmaker> lazy_bum: that's a build requirement 22:19:15 <Rubidium> and catcodec 22:19:20 <planetmaker> ^ 22:19:22 <Rubidium> (latter only for OpenSFX) 22:19:36 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:58 <lazy_bum> Is there a package with grfcodec (the source would be the best "Gentoo way" ;). 22:20:13 <Rubidium> openttd.org/download-grfcodec 22:20:21 <planetmaker> svn://svn.ttdpatch.net/misc/nforenum 22:20:27 <planetmaker> svn://svn.ttdpatch.net/misc/grfcodec 22:20:31 <planetmaker> but... not a package 22:20:42 <lazy_bum> Oh. Damn, I was looking at http://www.ttdpatch.net/grfcodec/ 22:21:10 <Rubidium> that's the same, although quite horribly stale 22:21:15 <planetmaker> Rubi's link is the one with the official nightlies 22:22:04 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if you abbreviate my name, do it correctly... as learnt at school :) 22:22:13 <planetmaker> :-P 22:22:28 <planetmaker> I just wonder whether you also have a highlight on Rb ;-) 22:22:40 <lazy_bum> Thanks. (: 22:22:43 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@188.126.203.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:57 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, but neither on any other abbreviation/typoed variant 22:23:25 <ashb> doesn't every irc client have tab completion on names? 22:23:50 <planetmaker> well, so? 22:23:50 <lazy_bum> Oh, btw TrueBrains comment on "our" bugzilla. "2) OpenSFX requires >= 1.0.0" - this will work with 1.0.0_beta1, right? (: 22:23:57 <Rubidium> ashb: probably not, but most have... but do people know that? 22:24:07 <planetmaker> lazy_bum: yes 22:24:21 <ashb> planetmaker: so ru<tab> is shorter than Rubi :) 22:24:40 <PeterT> <blathijs> PeterT: You mentioned something about a music replacement project, what was that about? <-- http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=46479 22:24:49 <planetmaker> well, it was not my intention to save a keystroke. Rather to avoid unnecessary highlight 22:25:26 <planetmaker> I know well of tab completion. Despite that it's sometimes even faster to write the name just using the normal keys. Fingers are faster there 22:26:14 <Rubidium> definitely true for writing planetmaker ;) cause pm gets confusing... 22:26:24 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 22:27:04 <planetmaker> pm is actually my primary nick. But it got too confusing ;-) 22:29:51 <Rubidium> yeah, sending a pm to pm in the pm 22:30:25 <planetmaker> "in the pm" doesn't parse for me 22:31:14 <planetmaker> or does that work in English as description for the time? 22:31:26 <Rubidium> that I hope it does :) 22:31:52 <planetmaker> :-) I just never saw it used in this particular way 22:32:54 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/stats.pdf <- hmm... what happens when releasing a 1.0.0-beta1 :) 22:35:48 <planetmaker> impressive :-) quite a bump, eh? 22:36:34 <planetmaker> what's the "usual" bump after release of a new testing candidate of a new version? 22:37:06 <Rubidium> just look at February/March 22:37:15 <Rubidium> then the peak at April is 0.7.0 22:37:48 <planetmaker> oh... it's one year more :-D 22:38:13 <Rubidium> and the subsequent peaks are 0.7.1 and further 22:39:01 <planetmaker> funnily they get much less traffic... though the latest release of a branch should always be most stable 22:39:42 <Rubidium> so during betas most of the points are above the 'average' 22:40:08 <Rubidium> but now they are incredibly far above the average 22:40:21 <planetmaker> taking that out, it's still a net gain of 33% or so 22:40:30 <planetmaker> 2000 vs. 1500 22:40:52 <Rubidium> yup 22:41:12 <Rubidium> probably a bit more than 2000, but yes something in that order 22:42:00 <Rubidium> anyhow, the 0.7.!0 releases are probably not that feature rich and they don't experience bugs so they don't migrate 22:42:30 <planetmaker> yes, true. You only update, if you have trouble then. 22:42:46 *** lazy_bum [~lazy_bum@chello089077212220.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: *poooof*] 22:42:50 <planetmaker> hm... our devzone traffic increased by 180GB in the last week... 22:43:18 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/stats/usage_200912.html 22:43:50 <planetmaker> alone on the 24th there were 138GB :-) 22:45:10 <planetmaker> so... 9000 downloads of OpenGFX and OpenSFX that day 22:45:50 <planetmaker> if both got equally pulled. Which is to be assumed IMO 22:46:18 <Rubidium> and that excludes whatever is installed via the Windows installer :) 22:47:11 <planetmaker> that goes via your servers? 22:47:16 <Rubidium> yup 22:47:30 <planetmaker> quite a bit addional traffic :-) 22:47:35 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:47:42 <Rubidium> definitely :) 22:48:03 <glx> 7zip-ed but still :) 22:48:24 <planetmaker> well, we have much bandwidth still. You could re-direct them to the devzone, too 22:48:35 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has joined #openttd 22:48:40 <Neon> min_active_clients specifies how many playing clients are needed for unpausing the game, doesn't it? 22:48:47 <glx> yes 22:48:48 <PeterT> yes, Neon 22:48:52 <Neon> Thanks. 22:48:56 <glx> but only for dedicated servers 22:50:08 <Neon> Of course 22:50:31 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 22:52:03 <planetmaker> hm... half the traffic is from a ukranian server... 22:52:36 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I find the spikes you're having odd, especially the 140 GB on a day spike 22:52:54 <planetmaker> yes 22:53:07 <Rubidium> the 8 GB average I can believe, the 140 GB download I simply can't 22:53:09 <planetmaker> that's probably this one... 22:55:22 <Rubidium> 18% opengfx vs 6% opensfx (hits per referers), so opengfx is downloaded 3 times more although due to the filesizes the bandwidth usage is probably the same 23:00:32 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejc8.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 23:03:05 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 23:13:18 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:28 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Bruno@187.90.170.247] has joined #openttd 23:15:31 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Bruno@187.90.170.247] has quit [] 23:15:37 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Bruno@187.90.170.247] has joined #openttd 23:16:26 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 23:19:56 *** Scorpio-BRZ [Bruno@187.90.170.247] has quit [] 23:20:57 *** Polygon [~Poly@81.163.115.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FCE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:18 *** jvlomax [~george@ti0028a380-dhcp0819.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:11 <Terkhen> good night 23:32:12 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@140.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> <sparr> I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that public multiplayer is a waste of time. There are so many ways that one player can screw with another <-- like i said before, it is absolutely impossible to solve that by software. the only solution is an active moderator who can kick such people 23:38:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:39:22 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ccef:3c32:fe53:c6cc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ccef:3c32:fe53:c6cc] has joined #openttd 23:39:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 23:44:14 <PeterT> Seems like you OpenTTD Developers have been playing a very nastly trick on us - http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46508 23:45:09 <glx> I'd say wrong palette 23:45:13 <planetmaker> seems like someone is using the wrong palette 23:45:41 <Ammler> opengfx should solve it... 23:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a jpeg! 23:46:20 <Ammler> how is it possible to have wrong palette? 23:46:20 <_ln> and jpegs don't have a palette -> problem solved! 23:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: was asking myself that exact same question 23:47:17 *** fonsinchen [~alve@brln-4dbc1530.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> something insane like editing the .obg 23:47:46 *** teshi|work [~teshiron@64.56.206.254] has quit []