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00:01:32 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8407.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:01:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fec8a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:48 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@ip-188-136-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:13 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:02 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 00:36:17 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 00:42:19 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:43:48 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@200.80-202-26.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:24 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:35 <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, wouldn't they have a tractive effort of like...two? 00:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> no, tractive effort does not work that way 00:53:14 *** lolman_ [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:00:27 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:40 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:19 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:01:32 *** lolman_ [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:00 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-23-53-134.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad] 01:23:43 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d6e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:36 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:25 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:57 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 01:58:45 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep 2.] 02:10:05 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:16:58 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:40ed:b874:cddc:7c85] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:09:58 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:44:53 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:57 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:37:24 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:37:39 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 04:40:21 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:41 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76BCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B749F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:36:50 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:39:33 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 06:09:34 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:26:16 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe23dc00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:27:58 *** asilv [~asilvio@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe9afa00-232.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:42:16 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:55:18 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:13:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:15:33 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-213-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:19:13 *** james_ [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:30:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19702 /trunk/src/table/strgen_tables.h: -Add: {HEX} to strgen 07:32:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19703 /trunk/src/ (string.cpp string_type.h): -Add: hexadecimal string filter 07:58:27 *** james_ [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:17 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C22F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:16:22 <Terkhen> good morning 08:20:40 <planetmaker> moin 08:21:09 <planetmaker> Terkhen: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=873357#p873357 <-- I think that those sets simply don't offer refit options in that way 08:21:32 <planetmaker> thus "No Support" is... no support on the side of those sets wrt refit. 08:23:41 <Terkhen> I think that's what he means, but IIRC 2cc had some kind of refitting support 08:28:41 <planetmaker> hm... IIRC not. It uses MUs and livery override and cargo refit for certain wagons. So... no and yes 08:30:51 <Terkhen> I'm very interested in feedback about that case (trains with refittable engine and wagons) 08:31:03 <Terkhen> I bet something strange will happen in some cases 08:31:16 <planetmaker> :-) 08:34:50 <planetmaker> let's give it a quick look at... 08:34:59 <planetmaker> ... uh... full re-compile :S 08:37:44 <planetmaker> and I should switch back to gcc 4.2 from 4.0 as is current default... 08:39:17 *** |NoobCp| [~kvirc@4.63.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 08:41:53 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 08:42:03 <planetmaker> Terkhen: do I need to activate that GUI? 08:42:17 <Terkhen> no, it is active by default 08:42:24 <planetmaker> hm... 08:45:00 *** james_ [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:45:32 *** _NoobCp_ [~kvirc@4.63.191.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:46:29 <planetmaker> ah. It only becomes effective, if something offers sub-types 08:46:41 <planetmaker> Yes, then 2cctrainset will not show the new GUI 08:48:09 <planetmaker> oh, Terkhen your channel topic is out-of date :-) 08:48:17 <planetmaker> -RC1 08:54:36 <andythenorth> hi hi 08:54:42 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:55:30 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I don't know how to change it :P 08:55:32 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 08:56:06 <planetmaker> Terkhen: if you got Dorpsgek access: @topic change 1 s/RC1/RC2/ 08:56:16 <andythenorth> oh those crazy BROS people :P 08:56:19 <andythenorth> they drive me nuts 08:56:34 <andythenorth> it's like they all wilfully fuck up their set 08:57:44 <planetmaker> :-) 08:57:49 * andythenorth is also bothered by capacity vs size in different sets 08:57:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: they simply miss a person as dedicated as you :-) 08:57:57 <andythenorth> but will have to live with it 08:58:34 <planetmaker> But then... people who code and draw - those are rare 08:59:02 <andythenorth> by contrast, the world is over-supplied with people who can argue on forums :| 08:59:16 <andythenorth> we should find a way to generate electricity from forum arguments 09:00:13 <Terkhen> arguing is easier :) 09:00:14 *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.0, 1.0.1-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Full English Breakfast only | Don't ask to ask, just ask 09:00:25 <peter1138> (/topic <tab> <edit it>) 09:01:19 <peter1138> oh, but it needs ops, hehe 09:01:55 <planetmaker> I guess it needs an IRC client which supports the tab completion in that case 09:02:02 <andythenorth> Terkhen: the 'no support' report for your patch - maybe it's an 'empty state design' GUI problem 09:02:23 <andythenorth> you might need to show a greyed out right hand side bar 09:02:24 <planetmaker> no sub-types available, then it doesn't show 09:02:36 <andythenorth> otherwise stuff is changing to the player without any obvious causal reason. 09:02:54 <planetmaker> ^ that'd be nicer, yes 09:03:14 <andythenorth> making the player construct a mental model of what the software is doing == evil 09:03:57 * andythenorth has gone a bit nuts trying to solve 'what is the game doing' with FIRS texts :P 09:05:05 <Terkhen> hmmm... I thought that marking cargos that can split with (X subtypes) would be enough for that 09:06:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://hg.openttd.org/developers/rubidium/newgrf_debug.hg/ <-- you might want to checkout that repo :-) 09:06:52 <andythenorth> ooohh 09:08:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you might want to configure your bouncer such that it saves the last <whatever> lines spoken in a channel 09:08:22 <planetmaker> Then you'll get the highlights in your absense. 09:08:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d820b7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:34 * andythenorth doesn't understand the bouncer at all 09:08:40 <andythenorth> :D 09:09:07 <Terkhen> <andythenorth> you might need to show a greyed out right hand side bar <--- what do you mean with "right hand side bar"? 09:09:15 <andythenorth> sorry, right hand side panel 09:09:38 <andythenorth> right hand side panel with empty list, optionally with a 'no refits available' string 09:10:03 <andythenorth> it's technically a waste of pixels, but it will remove doubt in the players mind 09:11:33 <planetmaker> I'm with andy there 09:12:21 <planetmaker> or, alternatively, a button(?) with show/hide sub types 09:12:47 <Terkhen> it would simplify the code a lot, too... oh well, I was sure that clearly indicating the number of subtypes would be enough 09:13:16 <Terkhen> if there is a button, people will get confused when they try a vehicle with cargo subtypes for the first time (the refit button does not work!) 09:13:27 <planetmaker> well. But it is not, if there's no sub-type 09:13:32 <andythenorth> GUIs are never perfect 09:13:45 <planetmaker> and then one wonders what's the difference when it's not shown :-) 09:14:13 <andythenorth> hmmm 09:14:31 <andythenorth> players seem to ask a lot about 'why is the ship button greyed out in 1920?' etc. 09:14:53 <andythenorth> or is it the building tools they ask about? 09:14:55 * andythenorth forgets 09:15:45 <Alberth> maybe someone should write a patch that you cannot start at an earlier year than when the first vehicle is available. 09:16:55 <Terkhen> a player that has been playing a lot without subtypes will end up ignoring the button and will not remember it when he needs it... showing the right part of the window greyed out will confuse or annoy people when they are refitting to cargos without subtypes (that wasted space would annoy me for sure) 09:18:46 <planetmaker> Alberth: poor *someone*... Always doing the slave labour :-( 09:19:46 <Alberth> he is very lazy, I have yet to see anything finished by him ;) 09:20:05 <planetmaker> Terkhen: proposal: Make the options visible the same way as waiting cargo which comes from different origins (with a + which will add the additional lines) 09:20:40 <planetmaker> So no + if there is no option. And a + to allow showing the different options when available 09:21:06 <planetmaker> or similar to the adv. setting (which is the same concept) 09:21:25 <andythenorth> /me is going to slightly contravene copyright in a GPL project and isn't going to say where 09:21:40 <planetmaker> hu? 09:21:47 <andythenorth> because life is short, and there are only so many ways to arrange pixels 09:26:10 <Prof_Frink> 09:31:08 <peter1138> you shouldn't even have said that... 09:34:08 <Terkhen> planetmaker: I agree, that would look nicer 09:34:20 <Terkhen> it would turn this into a longer project, though 09:34:20 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:34:36 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 09:34:37 <planetmaker> hehe. Life is a heartless bitch, I know 09:34:51 <Terkhen> :P 09:35:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I guess I shouldn't highlight andythenorth anymore if he can't read it anyway :) 09:35:10 <planetmaker> :-) 09:35:19 <planetmaker> I was happy to relay it, though 09:35:30 * andythenorth should figure out the bouncer 09:35:56 <andythenorth> I get an annoying 'you have messages' message every time I login, but no way of reading them :P 09:36:03 <andythenorth> probably RTFM 09:36:29 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:37:17 * andythenorth ponders hovercraft propellors 09:37:30 <andythenorth> (A) how to draw (B) animation? 09:37:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ships with helicopter rotors ;=) 09:38:07 <andythenorth> we could then store a second cargo in the rotor sprite? 09:39:19 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 09:41:17 <__ln__> that could damage fragile cargo 09:43:44 *** Markk_ [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd 09:43:50 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2002:51eb:a47b::1] has joined #openttd 09:44:41 <andythenorth> /me ends up not violating copyright :P 09:44:52 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:44:53 <andythenorth> my /me is broken :o 09:45:04 <planetmaker> you're to liberal with spaces 09:45:24 <planetmaker> "/" != " /" 09:45:42 <Alberth> 'mail' ? 09:45:50 <Alberth> andythenorth: ^ 09:45:54 *** OwenSX28-AC [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:45:54 <andythenorth> well I have plenty of spaces to spare 09:45:55 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485B5E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:55 <andythenorth> mail 09:46:00 *** |Terkhen| [~Terkhen@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 09:46:00 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 09:46:26 *** XeryusTC2 [~XeryusTC@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 09:46:30 <Alberth> if you have messages at a terminal 09:47:20 *** dih [~dih@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 09:47:21 *** erani_ [eran-@garde.fi] has joined #openttd 09:47:26 *** _Muddy [muddy@playing.OpenTTD.no] has joined #openttd 09:47:26 *** SmatZ- [~SmatZ@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 09:47:43 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0a32ab.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 09:47:54 *** Noldo_ [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 09:47:56 *** tneo_ [~tneo@vs241204.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 09:48:03 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: +michi_cc, eQualizer, dihedral, tneo, Polygon, fjb, kyo313, Prof_Frink, Markk, guru3, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 09:48:03 *** |Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen 09:48:07 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 09:48:13 *** Netsplit over, joins: eQualizer 09:48:19 *** Netsplit over, joins: Sacro 09:48:31 *** Netsplit over, joins: ashb 09:48:43 *** OwenSX28-AC is now known as OwenS 09:49:47 <OwenS> Hmm interesting... looks like Galapagos went down 09:50:06 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 09:50:38 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 09:50:40 *** james_ [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:50:47 *** DJNekkid [~DJ___Nekk@static128-249.adsl.no] has joined #openttd 09:51:05 *** kyo313 [~kyo@93-97-250-157.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:51:23 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 09:51:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 09:53:35 <andythenorth> funny how many lighting 'mistakes' there are in the default sprites 09:57:02 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 10:01:12 <planetmaker> He... the German army should re-consider their ads: "Looking for a secure job? Come on in!" is not quite appropriate considering the current body count from Afghanistan... 10:01:36 <Rubidium> planetmaker: did they lose their job? 10:01:53 <planetmaker> In a certain way, yes 10:01:54 <Rubidium> secure != safe 10:02:05 <planetmaker> Well. I could also translate "save". 10:02:09 <planetmaker> It's the same German word 10:02:45 <planetmaker> "Du suchst einen sicheren Arbeitsplatz? Komm doch mal rein." 10:02:53 <planetmaker> sicher = safe, secure 10:04:17 <__ln__> Do you get to Afghanistan without volunteering? 10:04:59 <Rubidium> true, though the safe in this context is more towards the secure than towards the no-injuries part 10:05:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I was thinking about town growth cargos & newgrf. Would be useful if growth could depend on both cargo delivered and cargo transported 10:06:17 <planetmaker> __ln__: if you go to the army for anything else then the compulsory service: then you could in principle be forced to go. Dunno if they do. 10:06:40 <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure it's meant in the "secure" way, but still ;-) 10:06:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the latter doesn't seem possible IIRC. 10:07:38 <planetmaker> only the amount of serviced station matters. So in a way it is already considered. 10:07:50 <planetmaker> but cannot be influenced by newgrfs 10:08:28 <andythenorth> it could be patched for. The town growth code looks...not simple....but understandable 10:08:47 <andythenorth> planetmaker: perhaps it's time to venture to C++ again 10:09:18 <planetmaker> hm... 10:10:21 * andythenorth is currently in a world of pixels though. Lots of nice ship renders arrived for painting 10:10:31 <planetmaker> :-) 10:11:21 <planetmaker> I have the feeling that adding "just another way to manipulate town growth" would not quite do. It would need re-thinking the concept and making it such that it could be accessed and extended 10:11:34 <andythenorth> maybe 10:11:41 <planetmaker> But I haven't dived deeply into it, so I may be wrong 10:11:55 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:12:02 <andythenorth> for me this is driven by the need for Food to be useful in Temperate + also a bit more of an interesting challenge 10:12:11 <andythenorth> but I think maybe it needs more thought about gameplay 10:12:20 <andythenorth> why care if cities grow or not? 10:12:32 <planetmaker> more passengers -> more revenue 10:12:45 <planetmaker> and big(est) city can be a challange :-) 10:14:56 <andythenorth> I keep thinking about a goals framework 10:15:15 <andythenorth> adding arbitrary newgrf control of stuff here and there might be quite fragemented 10:15:32 <andythenorth> it would be nice to design out some kind of framework concept 10:16:07 <Terkhen> IMO a goal framework would work best if implemented by scripts (something like NoAI) 10:16:42 <Terkhen> but probably it would need some kind of newgrf support too 10:16:43 <andythenorth> from what I've seen of NoAI that makes sense 10:16:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to associate a script with a scenario 10:17:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not sure. Do you suggest that for gameplay reasons, or for the implementation? 10:18:12 <Terkhen> some scripts could be generic enough to be used in any map, others would have to check the current map and disable themselves if they can't work in that map 10:18:24 <planetmaker> Goals similarly accessed as NoAI seems like a sane concept to me. 10:18:46 <Terkhen> others (referencing specific towns and industries) would need an specific scenario 10:18:53 <andythenorth> yes 10:19:01 <planetmaker> yup 10:19:07 <andythenorth> but 'grow a random town to xx inhabitants' wouldn't 10:19:17 <andythenorth> what goals would be fun? 10:19:31 <Eddi|zuHause> basically these scripts should be an extension/replacement to the current subsidy system 10:19:33 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:07 <Terkhen> probably goals that we already set in our games :) 10:20:30 <planetmaker> town size, transported cargo (per town, global), station ratings, ... average, minimum, maximum vehicle income 10:21:01 <planetmaker> number of connected towns, industries (per type, global), number of transported goods and types thereof 10:21:31 <planetmaker> use of certain vehicle(s) at a certain date, at a certain place 10:21:40 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttd.org/225711 10:21:48 <andythenorth> Hmmm 10:21:57 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has joined #openttd 10:22:01 <andythenorth> seems like a forum thread might actually be better for discussing this 10:22:05 <andythenorth> IRC is going to suck 10:22:22 <planetmaker> it's not archiv-able 10:22:45 <andythenorth> I'll start a thread. We can ignore the dumb suggestions 10:23:06 <andythenorth> Suggestions forum or Dev forum? 10:23:11 <Terkhen> for this topic there will be a lot 10:24:36 <planetmaker> scenario scripting would also allow for scriptable local authority sensitiviy for certain actions 10:24:43 <Terkhen> suggestions 10:24:45 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:24:51 *** Splex [~splex@n219078149145.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure there are plenty of these threads already 10:25:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so unless you have a good outline of your suggestion, i don't think opening a thread will help anyone 10:25:53 <andythenorth> I need a list of plausible goals before I can do the outline, and copy-paste from IRC == suck 10:26:02 <andythenorth> Wiki? 10:26:04 <Terkhen> a wiki page? 10:27:46 * andythenorth has to learn how a wiki works :P 10:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, imho the first milestone would be to mimic the current subsidies 10:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "bring at least one cargo from A to B" 10:28:42 <andythenorth> frick, how do I add a page to a wiki? 10:28:49 <andythenorth> RTFM 10:29:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just type the page name you want to create into the url 10:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> then it'll ask you to create the page 10:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> alternately, create a wiki link from another page, then click on that 10:30:35 <andythenorth> wikis are bonkers 10:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> what's not bonkers? 10:32:19 <andythenorth> hmmm....no newline conversion bah 10:33:45 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:34:51 <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features/Gameplay_Goals_Framework 10:35:20 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has joined #openttd 10:36:27 <Terkhen> one of the most frequent requests is to make something happen when some conditions are met 10:37:06 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c149.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:37:23 <andythenorth> Like a message, or an end screen? Or some other game event - like make a new vehicle available? 10:38:13 <Terkhen> I was referring to in game events, yes 10:39:11 <andythenorth> what sort of events? Town growth? Industry open / close? 10:39:24 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:39:42 <Terkhen> things like that, yes 10:41:25 <andythenorth> we should probably add those to the wiki too then? 10:43:31 <Terkhen> I'm not sure how feasible it is... the script can't check everything 10:43:44 <andythenorth> I'd be worried about conflicts with newgrf 10:43:52 <Terkhen> with that kind of things, you expect an inmediate response 10:44:09 <andythenorth> so much is controllable by newgrf that I think we could drown in complexity 10:45:16 * andythenorth thinks about the existing performance ratings 10:45:22 <andythenorth> they would need to go 10:45:37 <Terkhen> Indeed, I think that everything that sounds like it should be controlled by newgrf should be left out of the goal scripts 10:45:47 <Terkhen> (even if it can't) 10:45:50 *** james_ [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:42 <andythenorth> do we know the length of a player's routes? 10:48:57 <Terkhen> I don't think so 10:49:13 <andythenorth> we have number of tiles I assume (for the property maintenance calculation)? 10:49:18 <andythenorth> player tiles that is 10:49:36 <Terkhen> IIRC it counts the number of stations or station tiles, but I'm not sure 10:49:50 <andythenorth> do we know average speeds? 10:49:55 <andythenorth> probably not 10:50:02 <planetmaker> nope 10:50:03 <Terkhen> no 10:50:12 <andythenorth> revenue per ton / mile .....nope :P 10:50:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've added your suggestions: http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features/Gameplay_Goals_Framework 10:50:40 <planetmaker> thanks 10:53:14 <planetmaker> I added two more generic events 10:53:49 *** SmatZ- is now known as SmatZ 10:54:05 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485B5E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:54:16 <Rubidium> Terkhen: station facilities 10:54:26 * andythenorth compiles 10:54:55 *** sulai [~chatzilla@p5B2B614A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:55:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-143-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 10:55:12 <sulai> hi there =) 10:55:27 <Terkhen> hi sulai 10:56:00 <planetmaker> hi sulai 10:56:09 <sulai> I just freshly checked out r19530, which is ottd 1.0.0 10:56:11 <sulai> But on title screen, it shows r19527. Strange isn't it? 10:56:29 <planetmaker> only the svn tag is 1.0.0 10:56:38 <Rubidium> then you didn't checkout 1.0.0, but trunk at that revision 10:56:42 <KenjiE20> did you check out trun.... ^ 10:57:04 <planetmaker> :-D 10:57:11 * andythenorth improves the appearance of hovercraft renders, and no copyright was violated :D 10:57:33 <sulai> yeah thats true, thank you ^^ 10:57:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F766.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:34 <sulai> how are you doing planetmaker 10:58:36 <sulai> you seem to be a true long-term ottd addict ;) 10:58:47 <planetmaker> :-D 10:58:54 <planetmaker> fine thanks. How're you? 10:58:58 <planetmaker> you left :-( 10:59:16 <sulai> well I come back regulary :D 10:59:22 <planetmaker> :-) 11:00:03 <sulai> I think about refreshing Gremnons patch pack. He changed his sets of patches a lot and I think the earlier ones were better :) 11:00:36 <planetmaker> better go for an entirely new one :-) 11:00:52 <planetmaker> I haven't seen a PP for quite some time, though. At least not much fuss about PPs recently 11:01:46 <planetmaker> but then... mostly not much need :-) 11:02:05 <planetmaker> I'd "need" station_gui, newgrf_gui and sort_signs. 11:02:08 <sulai> true...gremnons patch pack thread is sleeping since a month or so 11:02:42 <planetmaker> only? 11:03:53 <andythenorth> Rubidium: the debug stuff is pretty awesome 11:04:20 <sulai> hm we'll see how far my patch pack plans get... :) 11:04:35 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d820b7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann] 11:04:56 <sulai> hm how do I update my existing svn location to a tag without doing a new check out? 11:05:09 <Rubidium> svn help switch 11:05:39 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I've never coded stations....but it looks like the debug would be extremely helpful to station coders as well :) 11:05:59 <andythenorth> Rubidium: anything I can do to help with it? 11:06:10 <Rubidium> andythenorth: try land area information 11:06:39 <andythenorth> try using it, or coding it? 11:06:44 <Rubidium> build a NewGRF station/house/... 11:07:01 <Rubidium> and get the "land area information" about that; you'll see the bug icon there too 11:07:09 <andythenorth> I was using that already ;) 11:07:12 <Rubidium> this is because station NewGRFs are tile based 11:07:24 <andythenorth> that's how I found the station stuff 11:07:37 <Rubidium> same you can get industry tiles, house tiles, railtype 11:08:31 <andythenorth> the only improvement I can think of right now is escapes for some values 11:08:42 <andythenorth> otherwise it's pretty outstanding 11:09:08 <andythenorth> ha ha, you've even done vehicles :) 11:09:24 <andythenorth> that's a big win 11:09:35 <Rubidium> andythenorth: escapes in what sense? 11:09:52 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:55 <andythenorth> hmm, escapes is probably the wrong term here 11:10:06 <andythenorth> for example, dates - convert the hex value to date format 11:10:47 <Rubidium> hmm, that might be technically possible 11:11:36 <andythenorth> and possibly format variable number / value in different colours... 11:11:45 <andythenorth> ...but sometimes that can look worse than all one colour 11:11:59 <Rubidium> that's (currently) quite hard as it uses lots of hardcoded strings 11:12:03 <andythenorth> nvm 11:12:56 <Rubidium> anyhow, I seem to remember that there are some results that put like cargo type and more bits into a varaction2 variable which makes "pretty printing" it harder 11:14:11 *** sulai_ [~chatzilla@p5B2B614A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:14:48 <andythenorth> apart from date format, I see no other improvements needed. Maybe see what Pikka, George etc make of it? 11:15:19 <andythenorth> From an industry point of view, if I need more debug info I'll push values into persistent storage 11:15:38 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:11 *** Yexo [~Yexo@205-89-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:17:52 <andythenorth> this is going to sound obsessive, but do we like the colour used for the decks of FISH ships? 11:18:14 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=121009 11:19:41 *** sulai [~chatzilla@p5B2B614A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:53 <Alberth> I'd use different colours for the parts where people walk and the parts that are just covers for the cargo 11:19:54 *** sulai_ is now known as sulai 11:20:37 <Alberth> then you don't get so much yellow-ish colour with the freight ships 11:21:15 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.14.194] has joined #openttd 11:29:03 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:29:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/ships_alternative_1.png 11:29:47 <andythenorth> I have a few other ideas for this 11:30:14 *** Splex [~splex@n219078149145.netvigator.com] has joined #openttd 11:31:31 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9504469.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:33:04 <Alberth> I like that 11:35:51 <__ln__> can it carry vehicles? 11:37:55 <andythenorth> no 11:38:32 * andythenorth ponders a 2CC version of the hatch covers 11:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i was missing a passenger ferry between the utility vessel and the small vehicle ferry 11:41:19 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:42:04 <andythenorth> there are more ships being worked on :) 11:42:27 * andythenorth wonders: improve sprites for current ships, or draw new ones? 11:46:36 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 11:46:36 <Alberth> decisions, decisions... 11:47:00 <andythenorth> draw new ones of course :) 11:47:09 <Terkhen> both! 11:47:19 *** sulai [~chatzilla@p5B2B614A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 11:47:20 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:54 <andythenorth> meh 11:49:42 <Terkhen> if not, draw new ones :P 11:50:23 <__ln__> andythenorth: don't you think a vehicle ferry that can't carry vehicles is a little like oil tanker that can't carry oil? 11:51:08 <andythenorth> __ln__: 'vehicles' isn't a cargo in any of the industry chains I use :P 11:53:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19704 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_rail.cpp newgrf.cpp newgrf.h table/pricebase.h): -Codechange: unify the style of GSF enums; now they're plural instead of mixed 12:16:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdc4:3be3:606f:265d] has joined #openttd 12:16:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:29:07 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:30:15 *** Forked [~kjetil@presenterer.formye.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:43 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:37:00 * andythenorth hates pixels 12:38:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:39:49 <planetmaker> use voxels! 12:39:54 <peter1138> urgh 12:42:27 *** Noldo_ is now known as Noldo 12:43:48 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:42 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:37 *** Juicy [lol@0x573b6722.fsnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:53:50 <Juicy> wow 12:54:03 <Juicy> theres really alot of ppl in here 12:55:05 *** Juicy [lol@0x573b6722.fsnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 12:55:08 <nighthawk_c_m> ^^ yepp 12:55:09 <TrueBrain> LOL! 12:55:13 <TrueBrain> really?! 12:55:21 <TrueBrain> how often do you join a channel to say just that :p 12:55:57 <Rubidium> ;) 12:56:07 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: once? 13:00:00 <TrueBrain> lol @ Rubidium 13:00:02 <TrueBrain> you are crazy :p 13:14:00 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:22:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19705 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Change: reinitialise the windows when changing the newgrf_developer_tools setting 13:27:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19706 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Add: support for the (NewGRF) debug box 13:35:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19707 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Add: helper functions to instantiate/fill ResolverObjects 13:36:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19708 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): -Add: NewGRF "debugging" window and data tables; should be a useful tool for NewGRF developers to get some insights into the value of some variables 13:39:23 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19709 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Feature: NewGRF debugging/inspecting of (primarily) enabled callbacks and values of variables 13:41:19 * andythenorth ponders svn up 13:47:09 * andythenorth decides painting hovercraft sucks 13:53:41 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: r20k before the end of the month? 13:59:34 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:59:48 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-23-53-134.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:00:14 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 14:00:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:02:45 *** djgummikuh [~djgummiku@93.185.107.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:34 <andythenorth> hmm 14:09:52 <andythenorth> sprites for a load of containers....2CC? 14:12:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fda54.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:17:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F766.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:58 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F766.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:26:22 * andythenorth plans a set that is entirely made up of hopper cars. Easy to draw :P 14:26:45 <Terkhen> is that much work? 14:26:50 <Terkhen> (2CC containers) 14:27:26 <andythenorth> containers are easy. Hovercraft are not. Even though it's mostly a flat deck with one cabin 14:27:37 <andythenorth> + propellors and rudders + stuff :P 14:28:55 <Terkhen> then I think that it will be a nice touch 14:29:24 <andythenorth> I have several angles complete http://tt-foundry.com/misc/freight_hovercraft_WIP.png 14:29:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19710 /trunk/src/ (depot_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: deduplicate GUI code for starting/stopping vehicles 14:30:29 <andythenorth> all the greeble on the deck is a pisser to draw: http://www.ahv.lynden.com/ahv/lacv-30.html 14:31:11 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:29 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:40:50 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9F7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:02 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.65] has joined #openttd 14:46:21 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 14:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see why containers should be company colours 14:55:31 <andythenorth> what colour would you prefer? 14:57:52 <Terkhen> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/ships_alternative_1.png <-- I like this one, perhaps less dark 15:01:19 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/speed_graphs/ <-- here is the other experiment: double click in a vehicle at the engine list to show a graph for that engine 15:01:35 *** Markk_ [~markk@91.90.24.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:36 *** amalloy1 [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: those graphs look complicated but useful 15:02:52 <andythenorth> and also cool :) 15:03:10 * andythenorth has 1.5 more angles to paint 15:03:27 <Terkhen> they are an "advanced" feature, yes 15:04:01 <amalloy1> spectating an online game i saw this station design: http://malloys.org/~akm/train.png - it looks to me like the two path signals closest to the station are ruining the pathing idea; am i right or is there something i don't get yet? 15:04:28 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:51 <amalloy1> (i ask cause i'm surprised that someone who builds such a neat junction would get the station wrong like that) 15:05:17 *** Markk [~markk@91.90.24.184] has joined #openttd 15:07:28 <Alberth> you may be right, the easiest way to check is to build it yourself and do a small test. 15:07:51 <Alberth> on the other hand, if you remove those signals, a train would stop at the outer signals 15:08:15 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:38 <amalloy1> yeah, which i thought was the point - stop before committing yourself to a platform since you don't know which will free up first 15:08:45 <amalloy1> but you're right, i can just test it 15:08:52 <SmatZ> that X is bad :-p 15:09:38 <Alberth> normally, you'd make a platform selection closer to the station 15:10:27 <Alberth> then you also don't need those bridges, which would make it a nicer solution imho 15:11:48 <amalloy1> i'll take your word for it: i can't really visualize hypothetical stations yet 15:12:26 <Alberth> if you move the X between the bridge and the station, there is nothing left under the bridge, and they can be eliminated. 15:14:34 <Alberth> hmm, the signals right next to the platform are also not needed. 15:14:49 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-23-53-134.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad] 15:14:56 <OwenS> Alberth: removing them means you're relying on PBS' anti-train-crash protection 15:15:07 <OwenS> People stil build with such tight corners? :( 15:15:19 * Alberth does :) 15:15:36 <Alberth> OwenS: but you rely on that anyway at all other PBS blocks 15:16:01 <OwenS> Alberth: No you don't. The anti crash protection only comes into play at a) stations without signals b) train reversals 15:16:04 <OwenS> 1 tile corners are ugly and slow :( 15:16:10 <amalloy1> yeah, the closest signals aren't needed but aren't really a liability. and they're insurance against user error: if i had a nickel for every time i removed a signal and caused a train crash seconds afterwards... 15:16:45 <peter1138> i just think it looks better with them :) 15:17:09 <Alberth> amalloy1: you should wait until all trains have passed :) 15:18:05 <amalloy1> yeah, i know. i'm usually planning to just "move" the signal or something and i forget. like i said: user error *chuckle* 15:18:34 <amalloy1> speaking of crashes, i'm watching this guy's trains blow up about six of his trucks at a different station. so i think i'll avoid taking lessons from him 15:20:48 <Alberth> OwenS: is this anti-crash protection described somewhere? 15:21:14 <Alberth> amalloy1: I often stop a train at a previous block first 15:22:19 <amalloy1> man, how do i keep ending up with amalloy1? i don't know a lot about irc and i tell my client to make my amalloy but it silently adds a 1. is there a name conflict somewhere? 15:22:23 <OwenS> Alberth: probably inside the YaPP code ;-) 15:22:45 <OwenS> [16:22] [Error] amalloy: No such nick/channel. 15:23:08 <SmatZ> OwenS: he can be hidden 15:23:22 <OwenS> SmatZ: aah true 15:23:27 <amalloy1> it would be weird, though. it's not a very common last name 15:23:38 <amalloy1> and none of my relatives play ottd :P 15:23:46 <OwenS> Not just OTTD 15:23:50 <OwenS> Lots of projects on OFTC 15:23:52 <KenjiE20> oftc is way bigger than that 15:23:56 <OwenS> What happens if you try "/nick amalloy" now 15:24:02 *** amalloy1 is now known as amalloy 15:24:06 <amalloy> it works, apparently 15:24:19 <OwenS> No complaints from Nickserv? 15:24:23 <KenjiE20> well, see if you got any evil notices from ^ 15:24:26 <amalloy> nope 15:24:51 <KenjiE20> it's unregistered too 15:24:56 <KenjiE20> I suggest you register it now 15:25:00 <Alberth> OwenS: that is on my 'still to read' list :) 15:25:09 <amalloy> how do i do that? 15:25:10 <KenjiE20> /msg nickserv help 15:27:50 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:44 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:28:48 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@client-86-23-53-134.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:29:47 <amalloy> well i succeeded in registering the name, but pidgin (my client) seems not to send the password right, even though it has a password field; i had to msg nickserv manually 15:30:29 <Alberth> correct, you have to do that in another way 15:31:07 <KenjiE20> that'll be the server password 15:31:29 <Alberth> yes, and you don't want it there. 15:31:37 <amalloy> ah 15:31:50 <KenjiE20> unless you're on freenode 15:31:53 <KenjiE20> :P 15:32:03 <KenjiE20> not sure if pidgin has a way to autosend 15:32:09 <KenjiE20> it's IRC isn't the best 15:32:13 <amalloy> well i'm reading up on some irc wiki 15:32:18 <amalloy> so i'll see 15:33:02 *** lolman [~Holygoat@188-220-38-226.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:38:05 <Alberth> amalloy: http://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/Protocol%20Specific%20Questions#IsthereawaytomakePidginautomaticallyidentifymeonlogin 15:39:35 <amalloy> yeah, i found something similar 15:39:57 <amalloy> working on it, thanks 15:40:36 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:40:50 *** amalloy [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:03 <amalloy> aha! all set. thanks lots 15:46:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:50:14 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 16:05:16 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 16:09:32 *** jordi [~jordi@115.Red-213-96-69.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:10:13 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:18:39 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.14.194] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:22:30 *** Zwoep [~Zw0ep@ip-83-134-171-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 16:23:38 <Zwoep> started company in 1990 and had a range of like 6 or 7 types of engines to choose from. now its 2050 and i only got the SH40 left 16:23:40 <Zwoep> http://i40.tinypic.com/21mrngz.jpg 16:23:43 <Zwoep> is that normal? 16:24:15 <SmatZ> yes, if you didn't enable "Vehicles never expire" setting 16:24:27 <Zwoep> ic 16:25:55 <Zwoep> thnx 16:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Zwoep: you're supposed to build maglevs at that time 16:31:39 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 16:33:01 *** james [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:33:14 <james> I need some help... 16:33:30 *** james is now known as Guest1142 16:34:04 <Guest1142> I need some code to loop through all the elements in a vector, check each item to see if it is correct, and if no correct item is found, create a new one 16:39:15 <Alberth> sure you are asking this in the right channel? 16:39:45 <SmatZ> james is always asking here C++ related questions 16:39:48 <Guest1142> I'm modifying OpenTTD code 16:42:51 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:04 <Alberth> usually the best way to find out how something is used, is to find a use in the existing code 16:46:02 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:15 * OwenS wishes road vehicles didn't have to slow down for corners 16:49:10 <peter1138> without diagonal roads, there can be no road curve radius... 16:49:24 <OwenS> How is RV curve speed determined at the moment? 16:49:38 <OwenS> Hardcoded or NewGRF? 16:50:32 <Terkhen> hardcoded, with both original and realistic acceleration 16:50:45 <OwenS> Seems like a notable omission from the NewGRF system... 16:53:26 * andythenorth doesn't want to set RV curve speeds 16:53:54 <OwenS> Nobody said the hardcoded behaviour had to go away 16:54:12 <OwenS> But, for example, one would expect some trams to be better at doing curves than others 16:54:12 <andythenorth> :) 16:56:56 <OwenS> Hmm... Trams appear to not have tractive effort eitehr :s 16:57:12 <Terkhen> what set? 16:57:25 <OwenS> Japanese. I presume its a new-ish feature? 16:57:30 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:58:02 <Terkhen> yes, some sets still don't support it completely 16:58:25 <peter1138> ish 16:58:29 <OwenS> Shame, because fast trams shouldn't have to slow down to clime slopes :p 16:58:45 <peter1138> "realistic" rv acceleration predates trams 16:58:50 * andythenorth thought trams did have tractive effort? 16:59:07 <OwenS> Presumably they haven't added it/designed for TTDP(? on the latter) 16:59:13 <Terkhen> rvs and trams without a TE value use the default value, though 16:59:48 * peter1138 climbs OwenS' clime 17:00:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C22F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:02 <OwenS> whoops 17:00:14 <OwenS> I'm tempted to replace this bridge with a canal... 17:00:28 <peter1138> waterways need to be cheaper 17:00:44 <peter1138> hmm, is there a newgrf that'll do that... 17:01:00 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 17:09:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:30 <andythenorth> meh, unfinished angles :P 17:37:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:39 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdc4:3be3:606f:265d] has joined #openttd 17:41:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ 17:41:47 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:42:00 *** glx is now known as Guest1147 17:42:00 *** glx_ is now known as glx 17:45:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19711 /trunk/src/lang/ (8 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 24 changes by arnau 17:45:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 9 changes by glx 17:45:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changes by junho2813 17:45:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: maltese - 69 changes by peter88823 17:45:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 7 changes by xine 17:47:51 *** Guest1147 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:fdc4:3be3:606f:265d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> wow... peter aged a lot :p 17:48:49 <Alberth> this is his elder twin brother :p 17:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> twin brothers tend to be not much older than a couple minutes :p 17:49:33 <peter1138> hurr 17:50:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm bored, i need a new game... 17:50:35 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:50:35 <Prof_Frink> Global thermonuclear war? 17:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i said a _new_ game :p 17:51:16 <peter1138> closedttd 17:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm through most of the old games that i have 17:51:46 <peter1138> bbc basic assembler 17:51:49 <peter1138> good game that 17:52:22 <ashb> http://www.introversion.co.uk/defcon/index.html <-- Global thermonuclear war ;) 17:52:46 *** ChoHag [~mking@77-44-113-86.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:59 *** ChoHag [~mking@77-44-113-86.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:56 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9504469.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:58:38 <Alberth> peter1138: I played that one too, it was good fun 18:00:59 <Devroush> <Eddi|zuHause> i'm through most of the old games that i have > rollercoaster tycoon! 18:01:28 * andythenorth ponders whether hovercraft should show 'spray' whilst loading 18:03:14 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:04:32 * andythenorth ponders hovercraft 'fuel cost' factor vs. normal ships 18:04:42 <andythenorth> three turbines vs one diesel piston engine 18:04:48 <andythenorth> I reckon...3 18:11:32 <OwenS> andythenorth: A turbine consumes more fuel than a piston engine 18:14:05 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:46 * andythenorth wonders if a hovercraft should also be obscenely expensive to buy 18:16:01 <andythenorth> probably not 18:16:14 <OwenS> andythenorth: IRL the running cost is at least doubled per engine 18:16:39 <OwenS> And they are also obscenely expensive to buy ;-) 18:16:54 <OwenS> On the basis that most TTD players are rolling in money... is cost a big issue? :p 18:17:18 <andythenorth> probably not 18:17:48 * andythenorth compares hovercraft to AV8 helicopter costs 18:17:54 <andythenorth> and decides to increase hovercraft cost :P 18:20:21 <OwenS> Its kind of ironic as jet engines are actually pretty efficient :p 18:23:39 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 18:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ships should be cheap because they are so slow, hovercraft kinda circumvent the slowness, thus should be properly expensive 18:24:42 <OwenS> Shame OpenTTD doesn't support more realistically scaled ships 18:24:47 *** Absolutis [~Absolutis@dsl-tlubrasgw1-fe87de00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:24:51 <OwenS> Then we could have them be the huge behmoths they should be 18:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "err:seh:setup_exception_record stack overflow 1608 bytes in thread 002d eip 7edd71ae esp 00240ce8 stack 0x240000-0x241000-0x340000" <-- that doesn't sound right... 18:25:09 <peter1138> huge cargo just doesn't work 18:25:20 <OwenS> why? 18:25:21 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 18:25:27 <peter1138> not enough cargo 18:25:34 *** Absolutis [~Absolutis@dsl-tlubrasgw1-fe87de00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:25:48 <OwenS> Depends what the ship is transporting 18:25:55 <peter1138> there's a newgrf which changes capacties to be more 'realistic' 18:25:57 <OwenS> If its transporting from multiple industries it works.. 18:26:03 <peter1138> the ships just sit there for ever 18:26:08 <andythenorth> I could use some 2,000t ships right now 18:26:10 <peter1138> also 18:26:23 <andythenorth> FISH maxes out at 1,080t 18:26:24 <peter1138> you should then be able to mix cargo types 18:26:32 <OwenS> That is true 18:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: you don't service one mine with 100 trains, why should you service one oil rig with a 100-train-capacity ship? 18:26:38 <peter1138> except on oil tankers :) 18:26:41 <andythenorth> and we're back to articulated ships :P 18:26:50 <OwenS> No need for articulation 18:26:53 <andythenorth> might as well 18:26:55 <peter1138> just hidden parts 18:26:56 <andythenorth> it would be useful 18:26:58 <OwenS> Just a way to make them stay away from shores 18:26:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we need a "container" vehicle type 18:27:01 <peter1138> like bellyflopters 18:27:25 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: You shouldn't. Unfortunately, OpenTTD doesn't model undersea pipelines :p 18:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> a ship takes containers, no matter what's in them 18:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: pipelines don't make any sense in openttd 18:28:02 * andythenorth now has hovercraft that cost 7x more to run than the equivalent size ship, and 5x as much to buy 18:28:07 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, get patching :D 18:28:29 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Thats true. Therefore, large oil tankers won't work 18:28:31 <andythenorth> and the hovercraft are 3x as fast :P 18:28:39 <OwenS> Unless one was to drop all the oil from other stations off at an oil rig 18:39:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19712 /trunk/src/table/newgrf_debug_data.h: -Fix (r19708): if the parent was a town, the parent wasn't shown 18:54:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:58:16 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:58:50 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 19:02:40 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9504469.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:07:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r19713 /trunk/src/newgrf_industries.cpp: -Fix [NewGRF]: passing some invalid data to industry variable 67/68 could cause a crash 19:16:35 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:41 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@client-86-23-53-134.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:46 *** Zwoep [~Zw0ep@ip-83-134-171-91.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 19:29:13 * andythenorth doesn't understand why running costs change in FISH. I set them correctly, then I play the game some time later and find they are incorrect. Inflation is *off* 19:30:38 <andythenorth> no other grfs are loaded :| 19:36:10 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@client-86-27-4-146.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:38:45 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 19:38:47 <andythenorth> meh 19:40:06 *** temoto [~temoto@89-178-22-228.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:40:11 <temoto> Hello. 19:40:20 <Terkhen> hello temoto 19:40:22 <temoto> What's fastest way to grow a city? 19:40:39 <temoto> (including cheats and console commands) 19:40:57 <Rubidium> the scenario editor 19:41:01 <KenjiE20> ^ 19:41:23 <temoto> uhh scenario editor can edit saved games? 19:41:58 <temoto> I want to grow few cities in my current game, not in new one. 19:42:35 <glx> just put a bus network in the town 19:42:36 <andythenorth> setting vehicle costs is annoying :\ 19:44:34 <temoto> glx, one passenger train station in town is not enough? (with lots of incoming passengers) 19:47:06 * andythenorth wonders about a nice sound effect for hovercraft 19:48:24 <temoto> Is 'fund new buildings' idempotent? 19:50:37 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa1b5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:08 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-73-100.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:14 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-187-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:57:17 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> temoto: my educated guess would be: not entirely, using it twice won't double the effect, but the second time will reset the timer until it runs out 20:02:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but that might not be what the code actually does 20:04:28 * andythenorth needs some names for hovecraft 20:04:34 <andythenorth> or hovercraft even 20:04:57 <Terkhen> generic names? 20:05:34 <Terkhen> or "Somecompanyname Hovercraft"? 20:05:41 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 20:06:25 <andythenorth> I'm feeling like using the names of rivers for the hovercaft 20:07:51 <temoto> Eddi|zuHause, thank you. 20:08:22 <temoto> Eddi|zuHause, what timer? 20:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> temoto: "fund new buildings" makes city growth speed up for a while 20:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like a month or so... not sure 20:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you see whether it is active at the amount of pavements on your roads 20:14:04 <temoto> thanks 20:16:03 <andythenorth> when a ship has a higher top speed unloaded than loaded....should I set 'max speed' to the lower or higher speed? 20:16:26 <andythenorth> from a player point of view 20:18:01 <temoto> btw, openttd devs, thank you so much, this game is fantastic. 20:19:30 <glx> andythenorth: I'd say the important speed for the player is the full loaded 20:19:51 <andythenorth> I think so. Otherwise I get bug reports saying "the top speed is wrong" :P 20:20:10 <glx> you'll still get them ;) 20:20:16 <Turgid> andythenorth, I'd prefer the max speed to say the unloaded speed, personally. 20:20:54 <Terkhen> I agree with glx 20:21:04 <Turgid> Or maybe have it split like 70/50 or whathaveyou 20:21:32 <frosch123> for ais you should use some weighted mean, so it gives the average speed for both directions 20:22:49 <andythenorth> bah 20:23:07 <andythenorth> it's all too complicated :P 20:23:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: what about programming black 'censured' boxes in front of the speed ? :) 20:23:42 <andythenorth> how about a patch to remove all strings? 20:23:56 <andythenorth> in fact, can't we just delete all translation files, no patch needed? 20:24:31 <Alberth> you may get lots of "undefined string" texts :) 20:24:49 <Prof_Frink> Delete the "undefined string" string. 20:25:08 * Alberth hopes that one is hard-coded 20:25:23 <frosch123> andythenorth: var 43 could provide human/ai, so you can return different values 20:25:31 <Alberth> perhaps better make all strings empty instead 20:25:33 <frosch123> (though currently var 43 misses that info in purchase list...) 20:26:23 <andythenorth> how about I finish the speed code and release this hovercraft? Then you guys can advise... 20:27:31 <Alberth> good plan 20:28:08 <Terkhen> :) 20:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. at a train length of 1,97m how many 26m/87 wagons do fit in? 20:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 26/87 20:32:01 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.298850574713 20:32:13 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 26/87*6 20:32:13 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1.79310344828 20:34:50 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:56 *** asilv [~asilvio@dsl-lprbrasgw1-fe9afa00-232.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:38:21 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@188.72.255.192] has joined #openttd 20:38:29 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:49:52 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:50:34 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:59 <andythenorth> new FISH on Bananas 20:55:12 <Prof_Frink> Fish and banana? An unusual combination. 20:56:04 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: smatz * r19714 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Feature: ctrl+click on a vehicle to start/stop it 20:59:12 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 21:03:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: terkhen * r19715 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Rename all appareances of shiplift to lock. 21:08:51 <SpComb> more magical uses of Ctrl 21:09:13 <andythenorth> quite the magic key that one 21:15:23 <temoto> BTW does anyone maintains a MacOSX binary build? 21:15:57 <glx> no 21:16:15 <glx> at least not officially 21:16:27 <andythenorth> but the OS X port currently compiles ok 21:16:45 <glx> but it lacks features 21:17:31 <andythenorth> hmm...svn up fails for me right now. 21:17:32 <andythenorth> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.openttd.com': No route to host 21:17:41 <glx> it's .org 21:18:08 * andythenorth wonders how *that* got changed :o 21:18:21 <andythenorth> I don't screw with repo configs 21:18:24 <glx> it always was .org 21:18:41 <andythenorth> yup, and it was working this morning 21:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely remember some talk about a redirect 21:19:06 <glx> .com should work too 21:19:12 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:19:13 <glx> but it's best to use .org 21:19:36 * andythenorth wonders how to change an svn config 21:19:50 <glx> switch --relocate 21:20:39 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d198-53-213-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 21:24:02 <andythenorth> bah 21:24:19 <andythenorth> I have a second checkout of OTTD. It uses svn.openttd.org and also fails 21:24:33 <TrueBrain> .com in theory is an alias of .org, but yes, rather use .org 21:26:09 * andythenorth wonders if this ISP is blocking svn 21:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause> then your network is screwed up 21:26:19 <andythenorth> "I'm not from round here" 21:26:48 <andythenorth> might be the router. I'm a guest :P 21:27:00 <andythenorth> ah screw it 21:27:07 <andythenorth> hg works though, weird 21:28:23 <andythenorth> good night 21:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hg is tunneled through http? 21:28:38 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 21:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's some kind of proxy 21:28:54 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... 21:30:04 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hg is always over http :) 21:30:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C22F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:32:58 <SmatZ> overhead ftw 21:33:20 <SmatZ> well.. maybe it's not that serious overhead :) 21:33:28 <TrueBrain> it is :p 21:33:31 <SmatZ> hehe :) 21:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: well, that was a question... 21:34:14 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-hkibrasgw1-ff1ec000-127.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 21:38:17 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:31 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:42:51 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.154.65] has joined #openttd 21:53:57 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C22F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:55 <Ammler> [23:30] <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hg is always over http ï¿Œ or direct file (ssh) 22:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> next time you quote someone, make clear which part is quoted and which one is not. 22:21:55 *** nighthawk_c_m [~nighthawk@pD9504469.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:22:14 <temoto> This is a funny bug... after some time, 'D' demolish hotkey is ignored. [linux x86-64 from ubuntu lucid repo] 22:22:44 <frosch123> maybe you have some editbox open 22:22:48 <temoto> happens like 3rd time in a row. maybe after hour or two 22:23:01 <PeterT> 1.0.1-RC2 already?! 22:23:13 <PeterT> O_o 22:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> temoto: "D" is caught by order windows, if one is open 22:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and the landscape toolbar must be open for the "D" key to work 22:24:04 <temoto> I didn't see any editboxes or order windows, but indeed, opening 'rename' on city and closing it, helped. Thanks for hints. 22:24:28 <temoto> i used to restart before 22:28:03 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: next time you answer someone directly, make clear to highlight him :-P 22:28:35 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:38 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2D9F7E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 22:43:26 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-72-20.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:49:47 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 23:00:32 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-213-173.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 23:07:55 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has quit [Quit: ãããã¿ãªãã] 23:12:39 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:42 <Terkhen> good night 23:16:31 <PeterT> Good night Terkhen 23:30:05 *** Guest1142 [~james@host86-167-101-247.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:41:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fda54.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:14 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving]