Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:11:22 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:22:41 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:22:46 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:22:47 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:36 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:23 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C3F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:17 *** exe-_ [~d@brzesko-217.75.56.83.brzesko56.ptc.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:56:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-90.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 01:02:26 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:02:26 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:21 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:12:21 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:45 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 01:20:27 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:29 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:22:55 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:25:08 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:25:59 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:55 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:30:09 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:19 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.181.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:23 *** fjb is now known as Guest428 01:37:25 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D637.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:37:57 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:37:57 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:39:27 *** Guest428 [~frank@p5485BD5E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:40 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D637.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:36 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:45:36 *** Eoin_ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:50 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D637.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:05:06 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 02:09:27 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 02:09:32 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 02:09:38 *** Eoin [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust3.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 02:17:13 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:45f9:c611:cf1c:e5af] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:20:20 *** kabup [~quassel@201-43-164-156.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #openttd 02:22:32 <kabup> hi? 02:22:59 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:30:17 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:35:58 <Belugas> hi 02:55:55 <Belugas> bye 03:03:32 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D637.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:59 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 03:23:07 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:30:42 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:00 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8dfee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 03:49:11 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cb28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:09:58 *** kabup [~quassel@201-43-164-156.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 04:19:50 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:14 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:26:24 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:30:38 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76638.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:12:25 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 05:13:49 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 05:21:56 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe23dc00-198.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:23:21 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:30:38 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:34:41 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:55 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-23-141.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:54:20 <dihedral> morning 06:01:24 *** KingRobot [~mathew@student1710.student.nau.edu] has joined #openttd 06:02:55 <KingRobot> planetmaker: I posted a final version of the mouse fix this evening. 06:18:44 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 06:23:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:31:04 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:15 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:40:19 <planetmaker> KingRobot: I tested it 06:40:32 <KingRobot> Is it good? 06:40:57 <planetmaker> I find it strange. I _can_ reproduce the imprinted mouse bug (when switching to full screen in 8bpp-optimized blitter) with _every_ of those three fixes you posted 06:41:18 <planetmaker> Meaning: I have to revoke my statement from yesterday that the 2nd version fixes it :-( 06:41:25 <planetmaker> That leaves me wondering... 06:41:38 <KingRobot> Er, what happened yesterday, then? 06:41:48 <planetmaker> KingRobot: _that_ I wonder about. 06:42:34 <planetmaker> There must be something else in play which did *something* to make sure that kCGErrorFailure didn't occur... 06:42:46 <planetmaker> And I have no frigging idea as of what :-( 06:42:53 <KingRobot> Hrm. 06:42:58 <planetmaker> exactly 06:43:06 <KingRobot> The 2nd fix doesn't use that error check 06:43:15 <KingRobot> So that's not the issue. 06:43:26 <planetmaker> I just played through every patch, yeah :S 06:44:02 <KingRobot> are you familiar with libgmalloc? 06:44:12 <planetmaker> I'm afraid not 06:44:22 <planetmaker> what's the issue with it? 06:44:32 <KingRobot> None; it's an OS X debugging tool 06:44:53 <KingRobot> It checks for memory overwrites... sort of a valgrind lite 06:44:58 <planetmaker> ah 06:45:10 <KingRobot> It's only good for 10.6 06:45:25 <KingRobot> All you have to do to use it is 06:45:28 <KingRobot> set DYLD_INSERT_LIBRARIES to /usr/lib/libgmalloc.dylib 06:45:31 <KingRobot> then run the program 06:46:36 <KingRobot> It will yield a EXC_BAD_ACCESS at the location in the code that caused it. 06:47:32 <KingRobot> You might try that. 06:47:51 <KingRobot> The trouble is that the cursor is in the framebuffer 06:47:51 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 06:48:41 <KingRobot> So, if the cursor is enabled and you're blitting pixels direct to the framebuffer, you don't stand a chance. 06:49:08 <KingRobot> The cursor may or may not win since you're both writing to the same bit of memory. 06:49:42 <planetmaker> let's see... 06:51:34 <planetmaker> hehe... sluggish behaviour ;-) 06:53:53 <planetmaker> works as before 06:54:11 <KingRobot> Hmm, it's not an overflow then 06:54:14 <KingRobot> Interesting 06:56:19 <KingRobot> Does the cursor ever have any reason to be visible in full-screen mode? 06:56:53 <KingRobot> I was a bit confused by fullscreen.mm:350 06:57:49 <planetmaker> Well, one wants a cursor also in full-screen mode, not? 06:57:56 <planetmaker> Though not during switching, I guess 06:58:11 <planetmaker> Maybe it might be a good idea to undraw it, then switch modes, then draw it again? 06:58:20 <KingRobot> By the time it has reached that line, it's already faded in 06:58:38 <KingRobot> So why would we ever need to see the OS cursor after that point? 06:59:16 <planetmaker> I don't know wether it's the OS cursor. Maybe as it fits the colour. But the shape is... ragged and tattered. 06:59:35 <KingRobot> Hrm 06:59:49 <KingRobot> Well, I have two more ideas that can be tried. 07:00:18 <KingRobot> A: Set the cursor to a custom all alpha cursor whenever it should be hidden. 07:01:43 <KingRobot> B: Shove the cursor to the bottom right corner of the screen using CGDisplayMoveCursorToPoint 07:02:09 <KingRobot> A may or may not work, depending on the issue you're describing 07:02:24 <KingRobot> B would leave a single pixel in the corner having the problem 07:02:41 <planetmaker> hehe 07:03:13 <planetmaker> it's somehow still connecte to the colour space... 07:03:24 <KingRobot> Hrm 07:03:31 <KingRobot> What API are you building against? 07:03:44 <planetmaker> CGSColorProfileCreateWithColorSpace: Invalid ICC color space(0x18821dfe0) 07:03:53 <planetmaker> 10.6 07:04:06 <KingRobot> Ah, you see that in the console? 07:04:18 <planetmaker> what I posted is output in the console 07:04:26 <planetmaker> like what I posted in FS yesterday. yes 07:05:05 <KingRobot> Are you building 64-bits against 10.6? 07:05:43 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttd.org/225744 <-- the whole debug sessions with several switches between full screen and windowed mode 07:05:47 <planetmaker> yes, it's a x64 build 07:05:59 <planetmaker> IIRC 07:06:05 <KingRobot> Ah, I wonder if that is the issue. 07:06:46 <KingRobot> I'm building 32-bits against the 10.4 and 10.5 SDKs, and I have not been able to replicat the issue when running that binary on 10.6.3 07:06:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: does it happen with the x86 build? Is it fixed with KingRobot's patches on the x86 build? 07:07:15 <planetmaker> I need to test. Can any of you two quickly give me the configure command for that end? 07:07:29 <Rubidium> because if so, isn't the "better" fix to just not make x64 binaries anymore? 07:07:47 <planetmaker> hm, not sure 07:07:56 <planetmaker> that can result in serious library issues 07:08:17 <planetmaker> if they are not compiled universally by e.g. macports by default 07:08:25 <planetmaker> one has to ask for the specifically 07:08:43 <planetmaker> I did, though. Except libtimidity which macports has not 07:08:45 <KingRobot> planetmaker: my configure looks like this: 07:08:55 <KingRobot> ./configure --cc-build="gcc-4.0" --cc-host="gcc-4.0" --cxx-build="g++-4.0" --cxx-host="g++-4.0" --with-cocoa --enable-universal 07:09:53 <planetmaker> is --with-cocoa needed? And the gcc selection? Should be default 07:10:27 <KingRobot> planetmaker & Rubidium - there is currently no (compatibility) reason to build x86_64 for 10.6 unless you are writing screensavers. 07:11:35 <planetmaker> hmpf... configure already tells me that I'll compile two ppc versions which will fail to link... 07:11:42 <planetmaker> I don't have ppc libraries currently 07:11:49 <planetmaker> can I skip those building steps 07:11:51 <planetmaker> ? 07:12:46 <Rubidium> heh, I'm just proposing the OS X solutions applied lately... instead of finding a way to determine when it is or isn't buggy "you" declare it always buggy 07:13:13 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 3 ppc binaries :) 07:13:32 <planetmaker> KingRobot: http://paste.openttd.org/225745 <- my default configure 07:13:47 <planetmaker> Rubidium: no, not fat please ;-) 07:15:41 <planetmaker> WARNING: Could not find a usable 10.4u SDK, the resulting <- hm... 07:15:59 <planetmaker> ls /Developer/SDKs/ 07:16:01 <planetmaker> MacOSX10.3.9.sdk MacOSX10.5.sdk 07:16:02 <planetmaker> MacOSX10.4u.sdk MacOSX10.6.sdk 07:16:25 <KingRobot> Using which configure string? 07:16:45 <planetmaker> --enable-universal --without-libtimidity 07:17:05 <KingRobot> Did you specify the gcc-4.0 compiler? 07:17:05 <planetmaker> ah, nvm. 07:17:08 <planetmaker> ^ 07:17:20 <KingRobot> 10.4u SDK will not build with the 4.2 compiler 07:17:31 <planetmaker> yes, I know :-) 07:17:40 <KingRobot> Okay :) 07:18:03 <KingRobot> How are you setting 8bpp? Maybe I'm not doing it right. 07:18:17 <planetmaker> blitter = 8bpp-optimized in the openttd.cfg 07:18:23 <planetmaker> or what do you mean? 07:18:33 <KingRobot> yes, that :) 07:19:37 <planetmaker> of course we could just say that it's a deprecated setting - it's not the default anymore anyway... 07:21:28 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/coopVSnoai/ <- hehe 07:21:32 <dihedral> remember that planetmaker ? 07:21:42 *** JVassie [~James@nelocat2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:21:49 <planetmaker> oh yes. Great fun! 07:22:35 <planetmaker> ~/ottd/trunk> ./configure CFLAGS="-arch i386" --without-libtimidity <-- I'll try that for i386 binary 07:22:49 <KingRobot> Ah, should work. 07:22:55 <KingRobot> Care to just try my binary? 07:23:09 <planetmaker> link? 07:23:23 <KingRobot> just a sec 07:23:30 <KingRobot> http://openttd.eisbox.net/files/bundle.tmp.zip - current trunk with the final patch 07:23:35 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:24:40 <planetmaker> is there a quick way to inspect the arch a binary was build for? 07:24:45 <KingRobot> yes 07:24:58 <KingRobot> lipo -info /path/to/binary 07:25:04 <planetmaker> thanks 07:26:03 <planetmaker> src/newgrf_debug_gui.cpp:105: warning: âclass NIHelperâ has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor <-- that was a gcc40 bug, right? 07:27:00 <KingRobot> Not sure... I get that too, but it's just a warning. 07:27:03 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:48 <planetmaker> I recall that gcc issues *some* bogus warning. But not which 07:28:25 <planetmaker> src/smallmap_gui.cpp:642: warning: âtile$yâ may be used uninitialized in this function <-- I think it was this, though 07:30:51 <planetmaker> eeek... 07:31:09 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:31:13 <planetmaker> I just started my version as configured as pasted above 07:31:22 <planetmaker> no real change 07:32:09 <planetmaker> one odditiy (which I *think* I saw the last time with the x64 version, too, but now I paid close attention): the mouse cursor was fine when switching to full screen the FIRST time 07:32:32 <planetmaker> but it got an ugly permanent mark every subsequent time when switching to full screen 07:33:06 <planetmaker> hilarity... 07:33:46 <planetmaker> KingRobot: your version has the mouse cursor issue, too 07:33:58 <KingRobot> Interesting 07:34:07 <KingRobot> 10.6.3? 07:34:14 <KingRobot> Which mac & video card? 07:34:26 <planetmaker> macbook with on-board video by intel 07:35:55 <planetmaker> Graphics: Intel GMA 950, GMA 950, Built-In, spdisplays_integrated_vram 07:36:08 <KingRobot> I have a Macbook Pro with nVidia, and am no longer to replicate the issue since the patch 07:36:30 <KingRobot> Is yours the black or the white macbook 07:36:31 <planetmaker> Model: MacBook2,1, BootROM MB21.00A5.B07, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GHz, 2 GB, SMC 1.13f3 07:37:20 <KingRobot> My wife has a nearly identical model running 10.6.3. Perhaps I can replicate it there. 07:37:39 <planetmaker> When I played around with this the first time (when the http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3198 was new) I tested the patch, too 07:37:57 <planetmaker> It somewhat depended on *something* else 07:38:12 <planetmaker> Whether some mode was set or switched by another programme or not 07:38:23 <planetmaker> when done beore, it worked 07:38:31 <planetmaker> when not done, the error showed. 07:38:45 <planetmaker> But that's just a gut feeling which I couldn't point my finger at. 07:38:55 <KingRobot> It's a fair guess, at any point 07:38:56 <planetmaker> And at that time I failed to get the error again. So... fine 07:39:08 <planetmaker> obviously it wasn't quite as fine, though 07:39:41 <planetmaker> well, not that message what I got, but these terminal / console messages 07:40:41 <KingRobot> do you know how to set a breakpoint on a symbol in gdb? 07:40:53 <planetmaker> I'm afraid not 07:41:18 <planetmaker> but it's not something which cannot be found out 07:41:23 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 07:41:38 <KingRobot> I'd like to find out where CGSColorProfileCreateWithColorSpace is being called from. 07:43:00 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:45:09 <KingRobot> Hm 07:45:39 <KingRobot> Seems to be a rabbit trail 07:46:17 <KingRobot> CGSColorProfileCreateWithColorSpace is being called, not when starting into full-screen mode, but when exiting from full-screen mode and creating the quartz window. 07:49:41 <planetmaker> hmpf 07:55:31 <Terkhen> good morning 07:56:20 <KingRobot> Or, as has been mentioned, we could simply disallow 8-bit color under 10.6 07:56:36 <KingRobot> It's not like any machine running 10.6 won't have the horsepower to handle 32 bits 07:58:33 <dihedral> grr - awstats aint doing what i want it to do .... 07:59:02 <dihedral> have multiple logs in one log file (using vhost_alias) 07:59:09 <KingRobot> It's like as not that direct blitting to the display will be gone altogether with the next version of the OS. 07:59:11 <dihedral> i.e. *.example.org goes to one log file 07:59:30 <dihedral> how can i not tell awstats to use that vhost name when linking in the stats? 07:59:51 <KingRobot> dihedral: sadly I only know webalizer :) 07:59:58 <dihedral> hmmmpf 08:00:43 <dihedral> i used to do that with webalizer 08:00:53 <dihedral> i mangled the log files before processing ^^ 08:03:10 <planetmaker> mon Terkhen 08:03:19 <planetmaker> KingRobot: the reverse? ;-) 08:03:46 <planetmaker> a 32 or 64 bit machine cannot handle 8 bits. Too tiny to care correctly about :-P 08:03:53 <KingRobot> Ha :) 08:04:24 <KingRobot> What about a new video driver using glDrawPixels? 08:04:40 <planetmaker> if that makes it future-proof: go for it :-) 08:04:49 <planetmaker> I don't know what 10.7 will bring us in that respect. 08:05:19 <KingRobot> Future-proofed software for OS X is an oxymoron :) 08:05:59 <KingRobot> But for now, glDrawPixels is not listed as deprecated, so it should at least work for 10.7 08:07:42 <KingRobot> The only drawback is that I've read it is slow, but perhaps if we are sending in 8-bit indexed data it might work. 08:09:23 <KingRobot> The other option is quad tiling 08:09:41 <planetmaker> for sure make it another configure option :-) 08:10:50 <planetmaker> then we can have tripple fun on a mac: cocoa-traditional, sdl, and cocoal-modern ;-) 08:10:58 <KingRobot> lol 08:11:13 <KingRobot> The SDL version is borked as far as I know 08:11:29 <KingRobot> And I know nothing about SDL, so I'm not likely to fix it 08:11:42 <planetmaker> quite so 08:12:04 <planetmaker> I tested it once just because - and it was "interesting" 08:12:20 <planetmaker> well, FS has the result ;-) 08:15:09 <KingRobot> Are you familiar with dirty_rects? 08:19:20 <planetmaker> I think I have an idea of the concept 08:19:24 <planetmaker> but not more 08:19:46 <planetmaker> except if it is a function with that particular name. 08:19:52 <planetmaker> I haven't really dealt with GUI code 08:22:19 <KingRobot> a function really? it looks like a structure 08:23:41 *** KingRobot [~mathew@student1710.student.nau.edu] has left #openttd [] 08:30:43 *** heffer [~felix@82.113.121.36] has joined #openttd 08:31:07 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:33:48 <planetmaker> ok, I have no idea... hm... there he goes 08:41:24 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:43:43 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:43 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@vps.jontysewell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:44 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:44:06 *** Rubidium_ [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:06 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@rbijker.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:56:00 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:07:17 <dihedral> Rubidium_ / TrueBrain: which one of you setup your awstats? 09:07:24 <dihedral> i am assuming it was TrueBrain ? 09:07:50 <dihedral> do you use separate stats for each subdomain, or do you have them somhow combined? 09:11:08 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 09:17:29 *** heffer [~felix@82.113.121.36] has quit [Quit: heffer] 09:28:55 <planetmaker> no rubi here 09:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes there is 09:29:44 <planetmaker> ah... there is ;-) 09:30:57 <TrueBrain> I just have one general advise: never use awstats 09:31:33 <dihedral> why is that TrueBrain 09:31:49 <TrueBrain> because it *sucks* 09:32:09 <dihedral> can you be more specific? 09:32:18 <TrueBrain> not really 09:32:26 <TrueBrain> just my experience 09:32:37 <TrueBrain> webalizer does what it should do, and at an amazing speed :) 09:32:37 <dihedral> TrueBrain: something really puzles me 09:32:57 <dihedral> there was a time where you said webalizer sucks, and awstats is way better, 09:33:02 <dihedral> now you are back to square one 09:33:09 <TrueBrain> opinions change. I hope I am allowed to? 09:33:18 <dihedral> there seems to be moments where you to that with every peice of (something) you do 09:33:31 <dihedral> and you always do it very vaguely 09:33:37 <TrueBrain> as every sane human being should be doing 09:33:41 <dihedral> i.e. - that sucks, that's better 09:33:48 <dihedral> ^^ 09:34:17 <TrueBrain> there is a reason I don't go into details; mostly because it is my opinion, and every other person should find it out for his self what he likes/dislikes 09:34:27 <TrueBrain> when I go into detail, I have concrete reasons for nobody to ever use it 09:34:49 <TrueBrain> compare it to food 09:34:52 <TrueBrain> you have likes and dislikes 09:34:52 <dihedral> ^^ 09:34:58 <TrueBrain> they change over time (at least, I hope so) 09:35:06 <dihedral> i would really love to know why you think awstats sucks ;-) 09:35:07 <TrueBrain> so you say: this I don't eat, it is shit 09:35:09 <TrueBrain> while others LOVE to eat it 09:35:42 <dihedral> just so that hopefully i do not need to go through the same process ^^ 09:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate "raw" cheese 09:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but i love cheese on pizza 09:43:50 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:45:30 *** sunkan [~Tarquin@90-224-108-233-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 09:46:36 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:23 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:58:12 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:04:42 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:05:20 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:42 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:17:44 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@2001:1af8:fe2e:110::1] has joined #openttd 10:18:09 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Now there's crappy timing for expression opinions: I've just set up awstats for a bunch of domains this week :-) 10:18:21 <TrueBrain> dihedral: well, enjoy it :p 10:18:37 <TrueBrain> awstats was nice, till a certain limit 10:21:09 <blathijs> So, performance is the main problem with awstats? 10:21:36 <blathijs> Looking at the sample report from webalizer, it doesn't seem to add much (actuallly show less, I think..) 10:23:04 *** fjb [~frank@p5485D637.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:23:55 <blathijs> And actually, the points raised under "Criticism" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webalizer seem valid downsides to me... 10:26:15 <TrueBrain> blathijs: performance, but also sane things like: configuration, and installation. And: do-not-break-on-every-update 10:26:17 <TrueBrain> stuff like that :p 10:26:48 <TrueBrain> and webalizer is far from perfect, but at least it just works :) 10:27:03 <TrueBrain> modlogan was much better on all terms 10:27:05 <TrueBrain> but it died .. 10:27:21 <TrueBrain> I am still waiting for some sane person to make a stats app which also parses subdomains and shit correctly 10:27:39 <blathijs> So, from the looks of it, I guess I'm more happy with awstats now. Though I'm kinda wondering why I didn't even look at webalizer last week, I thought that awstats was the only sane and maintained log analyzer left 10:27:58 <TrueBrain> webalizer is the oldest and most used 10:28:04 <blathijs> Yeah, modlogan was awesome, I think I've even done some hacking for it a while back 10:28:08 <TrueBrain> awstats is the 'newer' brother, but becomes more and more bloatware :( 10:29:32 <blathijs> One of the things I miss in all of those, though, is freely zooming around the dataset. e.g., seeing the google terms for a specific day instead of only per month, or between two dates, etc. 10:29:56 <blathijs> But I guess that takes way more storage space and processing time to dynamically generate those reports 10:30:16 <blathijs> And I'm not even sure I'd really use that if it were possible, it just sounds useful :-p 10:31:39 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:35:22 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:42 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:38:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.177.231] has joined #openttd 10:52:39 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.156.69] has joined #openttd 10:55:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has joined #openttd 10:56:34 <planetmaker> {BLACK}Increase servicing interval with 10. Ctrl+Click increases servicing interval with 5 <-- sounds wrong to me 10:56:52 <planetmaker> wouldn't it have to say "...increase ...by 10..." ? 10:57:06 <planetmaker> and by 5 respectively? 11:03:12 <dihedral> TrueBrain: what you mention above all is helpful ;-) 11:03:35 <TrueBrain> it is? 11:03:36 <dihedral> i.e. performance, bloatware, breaking upon upgrade .... 11:03:46 <dihedral> just the things i wanted to hear from you 11:03:55 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I smells like a dutch person wrote that :p 11:04:17 <dihedral> does webalizer decently process multiple vhost_alias entries in a single log file? 11:04:23 <dihedral> or how do you go about that? 11:04:31 <dihedral> i.e. if *.example.org was all logged to one file 11:04:46 <TrueBrain> dihedral: it is just the same old cynical me, so you could have filled that in yourself :p 11:04:57 <dihedral> lol ^^ 11:05:01 <TrueBrain> dihedral: no stat system really likes subdomains 11:05:08 <dihedral> shit ^^ 11:05:10 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, given the average nationality of an OpenTTD dev, the chances are not that bad :-P 11:05:22 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@client-86-29-41-87.glfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:05:49 <dihedral> i used to pre-process my logs, moving the vhost-name into the request uri 11:05:55 <dihedral> before webalizer would process the logs 11:06:01 <dihedral> that used to work kind of ^^ 11:06:18 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: darn, you are on to me :) 11:17:52 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@client-86-23-56-121.brhm.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:21:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.177.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:15 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 11:34:46 *** George is now known as Guest469 11:40:32 *** Guest396 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:56 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 12:03:35 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 12:06:54 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:cde4:ac11:fd48:ae2f] has joined #openttd 12:06:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:08:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:11:57 <Adambean> hm. is it safe to disconnect the front panel audio header (ac97 based) from a sound card while the system is running? discovered the cba to shut 12:12:06 <Adambean> L/R is the wrong way, needs flipping 12:12:08 <Adambean> cba to shut down 12:12:35 <planetmaker> then try it out 12:13:52 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 12:18:17 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:20:27 *** Guest469 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:43 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 12:25:20 <glx> Adambean: disconnecting front panel will probably shutdown rear panel 12:25:30 <Adambean> nah it hasnt still working 12:25:35 <Adambean> pics or it didnt happen? ;) 12:25:57 <Adambean> www.reece-eu.net/tmp/ac97-frontpanel-hotswapped.jpg 12:26:05 <glx> because the you need jumpers to have sound in rear without front 12:26:23 <Adambean> nahh 12:26:25 <Adambean> not on this card you dont 12:26:31 <glx> but except that there's no real risk 12:26:57 <Adambean> now to swap pin 6 and 10 12:27:14 <glx> it's AC97 standard, rear is disabled when you plug a jack in front 12:27:34 <glx> so if you remove front, it's the same 12:28:17 <Adambean> this card does intel hd out or ac97 12:28:21 <Adambean> so i guess it doesnt care 12:28:26 <Adambean> you also have to select front panel out in the driver 12:28:30 <Adambean> treats them independantly 12:31:41 <glx> http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/cs-015851.htm <-- ha right there are 2 types 12:32:02 *** FloSoft [bouncer@tyra.ra-doersch.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:25 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 12:32:44 <Adambean> swapped. now to reconnect it 12:40:53 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:58 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 13:05:06 <Belugas> hi thre 13:05:10 <Belugas> there 13:05:19 <yorick> hi 13:14:35 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 13:15:06 *** George is now known as Guest483 13:19:27 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.103.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:55 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.21.147.62] has joined #openttd 13:22:31 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 13:26:13 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 13:28:04 *** Goulp [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has joined #openttd 13:28:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 13:28:57 *** Guest483 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:30:00 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:39:46 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 14:10:42 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:11 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:30:06 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:37:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3D73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:37 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:56:25 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@cpc1-stkn14-2-0-cust562.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:57:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 15:11:02 *** Rubidium_ is now known as Rubidium 15:21:46 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-216-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:22:05 *** sunkan [~Tarquin@90-224-108-233-no110.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:19 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:23:48 *** welterde [welterde@hex.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:55 *** welterde [~welterde@hex.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 15:25:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:14 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:37:37 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.156.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:48 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:17:39 *** Goulp [~Goulp@ip163.opsio.fr] has quit [Quit: PACKET_SERVER_SHUTDOWN] 16:17:41 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has joined #openttd 16:20:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 16:29:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:30:01 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has joined #openttd 16:30:03 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:20 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:30:37 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 16:34:00 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has joined #openttd 16:34:11 *** Grelouk_ [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has quit [] 16:35:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:37:38 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:04 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:46:24 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:12 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:00 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 16:57:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7052.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:30 *** Brianetta is now known as Brianetta-moving 17:17:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:18:26 *** Brianetta-moving [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:21:49 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 17:23:34 *** Limb [~Limb@ool-18bc2b29.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:05 <Limb> Hey quick question, how do I get cargo from a road depot to a train station? 17:24:15 <Sacro> my plane 17:24:18 <Sacro> *by 17:24:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Limb: they must be the same station 17:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Limb: try building the second station with ctrl 17:27:34 <Limb> Ah that did it 17:27:36 <Limb> thanks :) 17:31:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.177.231] has joined #openttd 17:34:52 *** Limb [~Limb@ool-18bc2b29.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ ] 17:45:47 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r19763 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 3 changes by habell 17:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: irish - 3 changes by tem 17:45:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by lorenzodv 17:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by mantaray 17:45:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 3 changes by mantaray 17:48:41 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 17:51:15 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:51:51 *** George is now known as Guest31 18:14:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:14:17 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:21:14 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:24 <andythenorth> hi hi 18:25:18 <fjb> Moin andythenorth 18:32:12 <Sacro> 'irish' isn't a language 18:32:48 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:53 <planetmaker> g'day andythenorth 18:36:00 <planetmaker> Sacro, but it's a translation. 18:37:05 <peter1138> this is where sacro is wrong 18:37:21 <Sacro> hmm 18:37:29 <Sacro> shouldn't it be 'gaelic' ? 18:37:34 <peter1138> no 18:37:38 <planetmaker> ^ 18:37:49 <Sacro> or is it just english with a lot more swearing 18:38:04 <peter1138> that's scottish 18:38:36 <Xaroth> Gaeilge 18:38:51 <Sacro> hmmm 18:40:31 <Xaroth> people sometimes call it Irish Gaelic tho 18:40:48 <__ln__> people and sacros 18:41:03 <Xaroth> but Gaelic is the proper term for scottish 18:41:18 <Xaroth> so to make it more complex they call it Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic 18:41:38 <peter1138> yeah 18:41:40 <peter1138> so 18:41:43 <peter1138> it's Irish, in english 18:41:46 <peter1138> and Gaeilge in Irish 18:41:59 <peter1138> ##name Irish 18:41:59 <peter1138> ##ownname Gaeilge 18:41:59 <peter1138> ##isocode ga_IE 18:42:01 <peter1138> see! 18:42:01 <Xaroth> there was another Gaelic but i forgot where that one got from 18:42:12 <Xaroth> AH, Manx Gaelic 18:43:39 <Sacro> i thought it was gaelic and scots? 18:44:02 <Xaroth> no, Gaelic is just used for anything semi-english :p 18:45:45 <Xaroth> but apparently, the Irish script is called Gaelic :P 18:45:55 <Xaroth> damn them brits are confusing :/ 18:47:57 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc20a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:32 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:23 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 19:10:14 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:28 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 19:14:13 *** woldemar [~maru@213.178.34.57] has joined #openttd 19:18:16 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:21:58 <Wizzleby> Gaelic is hardly semi-english, though modern english retains some gaelic loanwords... but the linguistic rules of the three Goidelic celtic languages are rather far from english =P 19:22:55 <Wizzleby> example: mhaol: pronounced 'mweel' 19:24:22 *** Guest31 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 19:29:21 *** George is now known as Guest46 19:46:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: if we're going to have hovercraft travelling on land, I'll have to redraw the sprites for 'spray' (which uses the water cycle) :P 19:46:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc20a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:52 <frosch123> maybe replace it with the demolition animation 19:47:25 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/hovercraft_land.png 19:47:38 <andythenorth> it clears the fence nicely.... 19:49:16 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc20a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:49:33 <fjb> What happens in a town? 19:50:15 <frosch123> you know the simcity ufo? 19:50:49 * fjb never played Simcity. 19:51:49 <andythenorth> fjb: hmmm hovercraft drives through houses 19:52:14 * andythenorth envisages free-roaming vehicles. 19:52:26 <andythenorth> however not free-roaming through buildings 19:53:09 <andythenorth> except for bulldozers 19:53:17 <andythenorth> which can go anywhere they choose 19:53:34 <fjb> That will make the people unhappy. 19:54:59 * andythenorth wonders why? 19:54:59 <fjb> And buoys will look strange at land. 19:55:14 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:55:48 * fjb would definitely not like a hovercraft moving around his kitchen. 19:55:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:42 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 19:58:08 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:59:09 <andythenorth> fjb: you never know until you try it 19:59:52 * Eddi|zuHause needs a hovercraft in 1:87 scale... 20:01:10 * frosch123 needs a hovercraft in a about twice the size as the stupid quad which is driving every morning at 7:00 around my house, and does more noise than three harleys or so 20:03:35 * Eddi|zuHause wonders whether a hovercraft is covered by the StVZO 20:04:04 <frosch123> what does the Z mean? 20:04:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Zulassung 20:04:23 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:23 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 20:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it defines which vehicles are allowed to go on public roads 20:09:31 <__ln__> apropos, youtube claims that Christopher Lee has dubbed himself into German in some 80's movie. 20:09:41 * andythenorth wonders if hovercraft would go straight over hills, or try and follow valleys 20:10:55 <fjb> __ln__: It is true. He speaks German very well. 20:11:40 <andythenorth> hmm 20:11:42 <fjb> andythenorth: Depends on its power and the trees. 20:11:47 <andythenorth> trees might be a problem indeed 20:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: yes, he speaks german 20:13:45 <__ln__> fjb, Eddi: yeah, he does, i've seen an interview of him in german 20:14:15 <__ln__> still, Arnold speaks german but doesn't dub himself. :) 20:14:43 <Nite_Owl> my hovercraft is full of eels 20:14:47 <fjb> His German sounds more like English now. 20:14:50 <andythenorth> that must be pleasing 20:15:54 <andythenorth> what supplies eels? 20:16:18 <Nite_Owl> Monty Python 20:16:59 <fjb> They also supplied spam. 20:17:12 <Nite_Owl> and Vikings 20:17:14 <andythenorth> what accepts eels? 20:17:51 <__ln__> Nite_Owl: i asked a few days ago whether hovercraft can be refitted for eels, but i was told no. :( 20:17:52 <Nite_Owl> the local eel house ?? 20:18:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-54-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:18:45 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 20:20:27 <andythenorth> __ln__: it wasn't me who said no was it? 20:21:06 <Nite_Owl> the original sketch should be on youtube 20:21:43 <__ln__> andythenorth: i can't remember; maybe. 20:22:17 <__ln__> and quite surprisingly, the original sketch is legally on youtube. 20:22:27 <andythenorth> definitely can be refitted to eels 20:22:50 <Combuster> I want my bug back :'( 20:25:16 * andythenorth fails to either code something or read the book on lean software development :P 20:25:38 <Nite_Owl> Python donated a lot of their shows to youtube 20:25:44 <__ln__> youtube seems quite broken today, but here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akbflkF_1zY 20:29:59 <Nite_Owl> still funny after all these years 20:33:34 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 20:40:18 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbc20a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:41:41 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:42:08 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:45:27 * andythenorth thinks the UK government may contain eels soon 20:48:19 *** oskari892 [~oskari89@212-149-205-119.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:49:31 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.21.12.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: there is currently no grf providing eels, so it can't be refitted to eels. 20:54:29 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:57 <andythenorth> is the UK government refittable to eels? 20:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that i don't know 20:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried? 20:59:45 <Nite_Owl> only the slimy kind ?? 20:59:47 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:20 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:01:12 <frosch123> night 21:01:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7052.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:14 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> these british people might make their first step into a modern democracy today 21:08:01 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-254-113-47.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 21:09:47 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 21:11:59 *** elmz [~elmz@222.80-202-29.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:12:45 *** Chillosophy [~fu@195-241-120-76.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:14:45 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:43 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: That first step being? 21:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the need for a coalition 21:16:36 <OwenS> The exit polls say that the seats will be 307/255/59/19, (Con/Lab/LibDem/Other), which means no majority, which means coalition seems likely 21:17:04 <OwenS> (It must be admitted UK exit polls are notoriously unreliable) 21:17:14 <OwenS> As incumbents Labour get the chance to form government first - probably by trying to ally with the liberal democrats 21:17:25 <SmatZ> 650 total, isn't that too much? 21:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> germany has a similar number... 21:17:51 <OwenS> SmatZ: 650 seats for members of the house of commons 21:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but due to germany's obscure system, the number can vary depending on the results of the election... 21:18:26 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has joined #openttd 21:19:09 <OwenS> Interestingly, both Labour and the Lib Dems have electoral reform high on their priorities 21:21:39 <SmatZ> in most cases, and in (almost) all cases of important laws, all members of one party vote the same 21:21:56 <SmatZ> so I wonder why are there so many members in the parliament... 21:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: one representant for each region 21:22:43 <OwenS> Indeed 21:23:14 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: you have different system than we have then :) so does it mean, when one party has (little) majority in all regions, it will get 100% of seats in the parliament? 21:23:18 <OwenS> It actually results in isdiosyncratic representations because regions have different populations 21:23:25 <OwenS> SmatZ: That is the case. Thats the issue 21:23:30 <SmatZ> interesting 21:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: in britain they have majority voting system, so that can happen, yes 21:23:52 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: in germany, they have a hybrid system 21:24:00 <OwenS> Both Labour and LibDems want to switch to Single Transferable Vote 21:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> 299 seats are given by majority vote, and an additional 299 seats are given by proportional vote 21:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have 2*299+X members in the german Bundestag 21:25:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Thats the system I've wanted :p 21:25:40 <OwenS> Whats the X? 21:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> where X is a complicated number when a party gets more majority seats than their proportional vote allows 21:26:29 <SmatZ> we have several regions, each region has X seats - and in each region is proportional vote 21:27:13 *** Adambean [CG1@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:27:22 <OwenS> SmatZ: Thats basically what Single Transferable Vote is, with a slight modification so that regions still have a representative MP 21:29:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:30:16 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: example: say a party got 10 direct candidates elected, but by the proportional vote it is only entitled to 8 seats, then 2 additional seats get awarded to the party, resulting in X=2 21:30:52 <OwenS> So awkward but smart 21:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets more complicated than that, because X is calculated separately for each Land (of which 16 exist), then all are added together 21:31:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that means party A can get "overhang mandates" from land 1, and party B can get some from land 2 21:34:24 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 21:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the most extreme case: a party gets all direct mandates, but does not take part in the proportional vote at all, then you have X=299, thus you get 3*299 members ;) 21:34:43 <OwenS> O_o 21:35:01 <OwenS> Apparently people have had to be turned away at polling stations because they were still queuing at the deadline 21:40:35 <SmatZ> that's a pity when you leave the office at 18:00 and the polling station closes one hour later 21:40:46 <SmatZ> especially when there are more people in that situation 21:41:33 <OwenS> SmatZ: They close at 2200 21:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: they closed at 22:00 local time 21:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, elections must be on sundays 21:41:55 <OwenS> And they opened up early in the morning 21:42:19 <SmatZ> ok :) 21:42:20 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:42:21 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:28 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 21:43:13 <OwenS> Our first count is supposed to be coming back in about 7 minutes 21:43:24 <OwenS> (That is, count from the first constituency) 21:43:27 <SmatZ> that's what I heard in local news... that many people were leaving the office just a hour before the polling station closes 21:43:38 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.145] has joined #openttd 21:43:56 <OwenS> SmatZ: If they left work at 2100h (And thats a late shift). presumably they started late enough to vote on the morning 21:44:56 <SmatZ> ok, news fail :) 21:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wer in Stalingrad war, wird von Playstation 3 enttÀuscht sein." 21:46:38 <Terkhen> andythenorth: why is the production of all farms in FIRS so low? :/ 21:46:52 <andythenorth> Terkhen: in recent nightlies? 21:46:58 <Terkhen> today's 21:47:26 <andythenorth> I find it looks ridiculous to route *lots* of trucks to a farm, or large trains 21:47:50 <andythenorth> I'm going to add location code to make farms cluster near each other though 21:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the number of farms should then be increased 21:48:09 <Terkhen> I agree, but I barely can route two trucks to a farm now 21:48:13 <Terkhen> okay :) 21:48:19 <andythenorth> deliver farm supplies :P 21:48:36 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's a barley farm ;) 21:49:10 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it would be a handy piece of play testing if you could try and max production with FMSP 21:49:27 <andythenorth> I think it should get to about 300t max, but testing takes time :) 21:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> (please tell me that joke was bad.) 21:49:30 <Terkhen> hmmm... okay 21:51:45 * andythenorth makes more industry layouts 21:51:55 <andythenorth> lots to do before I can play a test game :| 21:53:06 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: That joke was bad. 21:54:38 <andythenorth> barely a joke 21:55:14 <Terkhen> I don't get it... probably because I don't know what is a barley 21:56:23 <PeterT> Terkhen: Hey, remember how I was going to Spain and was stuck in Ireland because of the volcano? 21:56:31 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:31 <planetmaker> Terkhen: an alcoholic beverage 21:56:36 <PeterT> well, the tour company gave me a free trip to Spain 21:56:47 <PeterT> Iceland volcano <3 21:57:12 <Terkhen> hmm.. I did not know you got stuck because of the volcano 21:57:38 <Terkhen> that's nice of them, I have some friends that got no compensations 21:58:02 <PeterT> well, it's not like they lose money or anything 21:58:09 <PeterT> they just don't make as big of a profit off me 21:58:20 <PeterT> it is a company called "EF Tours" 21:58:52 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 22:01:20 <Terkhen> never heard of them 22:03:08 *** einKarl [~einKarl@95-89-121-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: to my knowledge, "barley" = "Gerste" 22:05:48 <andythenorth> had a forums pm from someone offering FIRS german translation 22:05:49 <Eddi|zuHause> particularly well known as basic ingredience of beer 22:05:53 <andythenorth> who was working on that? 22:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought planetmaker once wanted to do that? 22:08:08 <andythenorth> nighthawk ?? was doing it 22:08:42 <planetmaker> yes, I did the existing but currently not used and out-dated translation 22:08:59 <planetmaker> Sure enough I *could* do a new one, but I won't fight for it, if there's another translator :-) 22:09:05 <PeterT> is there away to dump the console/log into a text file? 22:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a list of german cargo names, but i have no idea how to properly translate "supplies" 22:09:56 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: yes, start with "openttd 2>log.txt" 22:10:05 <planetmaker> ^ 22:10:12 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think it was nighthawk, yes 22:10:30 <planetmaker> iirc yes 22:10:52 <andythenorth> well now lots of us have that information :) 22:10:58 <andythenorth> so we're all to blame if I forget 22:11:05 <planetmaker> :-D 22:11:15 <planetmaker> crowd-sourcing? 22:11:29 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 22:13:31 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: what about on Windows? 22:13:54 <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: i don't know if windows supports 2> 22:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but if at all, it must be converted to a console app first 22:14:15 <PeterT> yes, that's what yorick said 22:14:40 * andythenorth wonders what layouts to add next 22:14:47 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 22:14:54 <OwenS> Interestingly, some of our 650 seats are never filled 22:15:32 * SmatZ would gladly accept some of those unused 22:16:37 <OwenS> Haha 22:16:57 <OwenS> Sinn Fein MPs refuse to swear allegance to the queen :p 22:17:38 <SmatZ> how comes? 22:18:19 <OwenS> SmatZ: They're Irish Republicans 22:18:25 <OwenS> i.e. they want to be part of Ireland not the UK 22:18:34 <SmatZ> interesting :) 22:18:44 <SmatZ> I mean, really interesting 22:18:59 <SmatZ> I wouldn't expect that in GB 22:19:14 <OwenS> The irony is that if someone were to propose to give NI to Eire, then they couldn't vote for it :p 22:19:45 <SmatZ> :) 22:20:08 *** JostVice [~jostvice@85.136.129.22.dyn.user.ono.com] has left #openttd [] 22:21:04 <SmatZ> @seen JostVice 22:21:04 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: JostVice was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 6 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <JostVice> I already have two platforms in the stations, and a section with double track, what sygnals should i put in that section and in the track? I guess normal two way block signals in the whole track, and entry presignals and exit signals ? 22:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> someone was talking on-topic here? how dare he! 22:22:16 <SmatZ> :) 22:22:27 <andythenorth> @seen the_answers 22:22:27 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: I have not seen the_answers. 22:26:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DE3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:15 <yorick> what's gonna be special for r20000 22:27:25 <OwenS> XD Nice to hear the BNP candidate getting booed 22:27:40 <andythenorth> yorick: hovercraft on land 22:27:47 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:28:00 <yorick> andythenorth: maybe we get tomatoes 22:31:07 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3D73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:32:12 <yorick> @svn commit 15027 22:32:12 <DorpsGek> yorick: Invalid arguments for svn. 22:32:24 <PeterT> @commit r15027 22:32:24 <DorpsGek> PeterT: Invalid arguments for _commit. 22:32:29 <PeterT> D: 22:32:47 <yorick> (svn r15027) -Merge: tomatos and bananas left to be, here is NoAI for all to see. 22:32:50 <yorick> we already got bananas 22:33:15 <yorick> have we got tomatos? 22:33:55 <peter1138> etcyes 22:33:56 <peter1138> er 22:33:56 <peter1138> yes 22:34:00 <peter1138> i grew them in my garden 22:34:07 <yorick> oh nvm then 22:37:06 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 22:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> what a lovely fellow. 22:44:21 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 22:49:47 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAEF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 22:50:21 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:21 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 22:51:22 <Terkhen> good night 22:52:42 <andythenorth> good night 22:56:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 23:00:15 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-088-069-216-042.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Something strange must have happened...] 23:08:40 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: ecke] 23:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... google changed the layout? 23:10:36 <PeterT> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it looks awful 23:12:04 <OwenS> Only in the UK elections... Could a polling station have to call in the bomb squad 23:12:40 <OwenS> One of the Northern Ireland counts has had a bomb threat 23:18:18 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-154-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:44 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-154-137.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:28:44 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-224.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 23:31:41 *** IPG [~chatzilla@daisu.martos.bme.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:49 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.159.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:35 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@r5ba58.net.upc.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:34 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 23:46:34 *** Combuster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:38 *** [com]buster is now known as Combuster 23:57:37 *** DanMacK [~here@bas8-london14-1242504667.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 23:58:42 <DanMacK> Hey all