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00:01:16 <PeterT> Pwny. 00:04:15 * andythenorth plays the game 00:04:20 <andythenorth> and should now sleep 00:12:16 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 00:14:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:27:15 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 00:27:15 *** APTX_ [~APTX@chello089076052083.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-116-165.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:09:56 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 01:17:03 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 01:49:44 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:10:00 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:55 *** fjb is now known as Guest1194 02:20:57 *** fjb [~frank@p5485EAAC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:20:59 *** kyo313 [~kyo@93-97-250-157.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 02:23:01 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8d78:2081:6961:c2b0] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:25:17 *** ajmiles2 [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:27:07 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:27:50 *** Guest1194 [~frank@p5485FFDD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:42 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@92.8.98.253] has quit [Quit: +++ OK ATH OK] 02:32:18 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-134-005.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:33:03 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dreamxtre@92.8.98.253] has joined #openttd 02:42:48 *** Andycow [~andypoo@203-206-181-91.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:25:00 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:25:41 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B752BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76677.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:10:37 <ccfreak2k> Can road vehicles stop at streetcar stations? 05:11:41 <andythenorth> ccfreak2k: yes 05:11:48 <andythenorth> if there is road there 05:22:13 * andythenorth wishes road could overbuild rail and vice versa (for tunnels, bridges) 05:22:29 <andythenorth> I don't mean 'rails on road', I mean 'replace' 05:26:31 <ccfreak2k> Or perhaps...ruby on rails? 05:34:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Administr@89.246.191.120] has joined #openttd 05:40:13 <ccfreak2k> I think there was a jam on my rail network when I wasn't looking. 05:40:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Administr@89.246.223.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:22 <ccfreak2k> All of my passenger and mail trains are late by at least 20 days. 05:40:24 <ccfreak2k> 54 in one case. 06:36:13 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:41:57 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:02 *** Smoovious [~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:03 *** Smoovious [~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 07:00:50 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-fdf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 07:15:59 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.26.203.153] has joined #openttd 07:17:31 *** Zuu_ [Zuu@c-fdf2e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:34 *** burst_error [~burst_err@pool-71-101-62-173.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 07:43:35 <Andycow> !start 07:52:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D99A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:31:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:52:47 <andythenorth> is it lame that I prefer a game with (a) no industry closure (b) primary production never falls ? 08:52:54 <andythenorth> it's not how CS intended it :P 08:54:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's not lame 08:54:52 <planetmaker> it's sim city style ;-) 08:55:46 <andythenorth> industry closure / production decrease makes more sense on tiny maps 08:55:53 <andythenorth> not so much on a large map with many industries 08:57:30 <planetmaker> I disagree :-) 08:57:39 <planetmaker> It just needs a different time constant 08:58:11 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I've modified industry_cmd.cpp to have a 35 year protected period :) 08:58:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: can't you do that in firs? 08:58:39 <planetmaker> I mean... 08:59:08 <planetmaker> ... you don't have to close down things, if you don#t want, do you? 09:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... ext2 is one of the worst file systems i have ever seen... 09:01:20 <SpComb> it's so popular it has to be 09:01:54 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can modify closure in FIRS, I just haven't quite got around to it yet :) 09:02:07 <andythenorth> it's going to mean code in maybe....5 places for FIRS 09:02:08 <planetmaker> ok :-) 09:02:12 <andythenorth> it's one constant in the game 09:02:46 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: a1270] 09:04:01 * andythenorth has a cargo class trouble 09:04:36 <andythenorth> FIRS Lumber uses WDPR label. Not sure why, but FooBar probably did it for a good reason. 09:04:50 <andythenorth> Probably gets us better cargo support from vehicle sets 09:05:03 <andythenorth> But WDPR is defined as Bulk, Piece goods 09:05:22 <andythenorth> Transporting dimensional lumber in hoppers looks wrong :) 09:05:58 <andythenorth> should I define FIRS Lumber 'wrong' (according to original ECS spec)....or should I define new label for Lumber? 09:06:07 <andythenorth> either way someone will say it's wrong :) 09:06:35 <planetmaker> yep. so you're screwed 09:06:41 <planetmaker> :-P 09:07:51 <andythenorth> defining a new label is arguably going to cause redundancy in cargo translation tables 09:08:18 <Rubidium> start a change request process 09:08:35 <Rubidium> don't forget to send mb the request in triplicates on all forms of communication 09:09:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i think last time we discussed this, we got to the conclusion that introducing a new cargo label is not worth the hassle... 09:11:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I think the reasoning back then was: wood products could be anything from big pieces of woods to wood chips which qualify as bulk 09:12:25 <Rubidium> guess we should rename "wood products" to "19 inch racks" 09:12:28 <planetmaker> and probably indeed: new labels mean not much support. at least initially 09:12:56 <Rubidium> although that might need some help from SAC 09:13:06 <planetmaker> outch 09:13:16 <planetmaker> that's definitely 5⬠in the bad pun pot 09:13:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd91b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no, you just have a too twisted mind :p 09:14:15 <planetmaker> :-) of course 09:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or not enough ;) 09:14:29 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wood products definition is fine. I might try the new label though 09:14:45 <Rubidium> oh noes... only 3 euros left for that pot 09:14:46 <andythenorth> it should get picked up by most sets 09:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i would just keep the existing one 09:15:12 <andythenorth> nah, it irritates to me be shipping sawn lumber in hoppers 09:15:18 <andythenorth> worth a test at least 09:16:43 <planetmaker> I think you did that test a year ago ;-) 09:17:33 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host226-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:20:43 <Wolf01> 'morning 09:21:37 <Alberth> morning 09:21:46 <frosch123> morning :) 09:33:39 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 09:34:28 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 09:34:29 <Andycow> !start 09:34:51 <SpComb> /kick Andycow wrong chanenl 09:34:51 <Andycow> Well... 09:35:32 <VVG> good day sirs 09:44:25 <planetmaker> good day VVG 09:49:43 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:52:32 <fjb> Moin 09:53:25 <frosch123> quak fjb 09:53:37 <frosch123> :p 09:53:39 <SpComb> boo 09:53:45 <fjb> Quak frosch123 09:54:10 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f052061246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:54:44 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:05:30 * andythenorth ducktypes frosch123 10:06:56 <frosch123> quacking is not sufficient for casting to duck 10:09:21 <andythenorth> if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....http://www.remyroy.com/2008/06/01/duck-typing-and-python/ 10:09:40 <andythenorth> I am thinking of adding a HEQS vehicle with 1t capacity 10:09:42 <andythenorth> too small? 10:10:08 <frosch123> plumes? 10:10:46 <VVG> it's should be perfect for end delivery of supplies 10:12:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has joined #openttd 10:13:24 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has joined #openttd 10:13:24 <Andycow> Howdy! 10:18:14 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@89.195.18.43] has joined #openttd 10:20:32 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:39 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 10:21:59 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7bb0.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 10:22:40 *** Chris_Booth_ [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:28:40 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@89.195.18.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:51 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 10:30:20 <planetmaker> [12:09] <andythenorth> I am thinking of adding a HEQS vehicle with 1t capacity <-- for what purpose? 10:30:37 <andythenorth> delivering supplies 10:30:49 <andythenorth> rl capacity is 1.5t, so I can go for 1t or 2t :) 10:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> one guy running around with a hand carriage? :p 10:31:02 <andythenorth> I am thinking of 2t...to annoy players :) 10:31:23 <VVG> what is annoying in 2t capacity? 10:31:43 *** Uresu [~Wes@5ace7bb0.bb.sky.com] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 10:31:50 <andythenorth> industries only need 1t of supplies, so it enforces waste :) 10:31:56 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog 10:32:06 <andythenorth> should be familiar to some of you... 10:35:03 * andythenorth wonders what the default refit should be for that :) 10:36:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@80.251.192.2] has joined #openttd 10:36:01 <Andycow> bob! 10:37:43 <andythenorth> bob is not a standard cargo :P 10:37:47 <andythenorth> maybe he should be 10:37:58 <andythenorth> Mail will do 10:38:13 <Wolf01> pizza 10:38:48 <Wolf01> 1t of food looks right to me 10:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a friend of mine took part in an off-road rallye in romania a few weeks ago. i believe they even won 10:39:49 <Alberth> office materials (goods) :) 10:40:08 <andythenorth> 1t of livestock? 10:40:11 <andythenorth> (goats) 10:40:34 <VVG> paper clips 10:40:53 <Alberth> PRES (cargo type: president of the tycoon company) 10:41:12 <Alberth> hmm, CEO_ :) 10:41:40 <Alberth> VVG: steel :p 10:41:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: btw. i agree with 2t ;) 10:42:00 <andythenorth> 2t it is 10:42:11 <andythenorth> also helps it make money 10:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> 2t cargo, or 4 crates of goods 10:42:20 <VVG> what about speed? 10:42:22 <Alberth> 2 presidents :) 10:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not more than 60km/h ;) 10:43:15 <VVG> THAT sure will be annoying :) 10:43:36 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe 80 in later years 10:44:55 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-247-12.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:34 <andythenorth> speed is 32mph 10:46:34 <andythenorth> could increase it 10:47:19 <andythenorth> I'll add another light truck some time. This one is really for off-road stuff, and we don't have RoadTypes yet :) 10:48:09 <VVG> some yamaha motorbike with 1t capacity and 300 kmh speed on strait highways! 10:48:17 <planetmaker> :-D 10:49:08 <planetmaker> they did a comparison once: that 300km/h motor bike vs. an Opel astra from Hamburg(?) to Munich 10:49:27 <planetmaker> well. The difference was about the order of 30 minutes 10:49:55 <andythenorth> I could include my truck 10:50:06 <andythenorth> 1t capacity on three wheels :) 10:50:07 <VVG> 30 minutes everyday and in a year you can finish 1024 map connecting everything or so! 10:50:08 <planetmaker> on ~700km trip 10:50:54 <VVG> was motorbike slipping inbetween cars when road was clogged in rush hour? 10:51:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i would not classify the A7 as a "straight" highway :p 10:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you have 8% grades on there... 10:51:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: maybe not. But it's one of the highways with the least speed limits 10:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of the oldest highways... newer highways are not allowed to have that kind of grades anymore 10:52:58 <planetmaker> and those 8% near Kassel is only a very short piece 10:53:29 <planetmaker> though a bit dangerous if there's suddenly a truck crawling at 20km/h in front of you... 10:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... that's probably the only part of the A7 i have been to ;) 10:53:49 *** burst_error [~burst_err@pool-71-101-62-173.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #openttd [Left channel] 10:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> between the A38 and the A5 10:54:09 * planetmaker has been driving on it everywhere from Flensburg to MÃŒnchen so far ;-) 10:54:23 <planetmaker> but at very different times 10:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, when i get to the A7, i'm usually on an east-west trip... 10:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> for north-south trips we have the A9 ;) 10:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i had one trip, where i went on each of the odd-numbered highways ;) 10:56:54 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=885965#p885965 <-- lol? Look at the dates... 10:57:30 <planetmaker> A9 is also not very straight 10:57:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:53 <planetmaker> but I doubt you drove on _every_ odd-numbered highways ;-) 10:58:16 <planetmaker> from 1 to what? 391? or even higher 10:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> no. i meant the 1-digit ones ;) 10:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the main highways 10:59:08 <planetmaker> what are 'main' highways in your definition? 10:59:19 <planetmaker> 39? 73? 10:59:29 <planetmaker> or only 1,3,5,7,9? 11:00:15 <planetmaker> oh well :-) 11:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there are three classes of highways, the "main" grid with the 1-digit numbers, the "regional" grid with 2-digit numbers, where the first digit denotes the region, and local fillers with the 3-digit numbers 11:01:12 <planetmaker> I don't really think that this distinction is entirely true but just a rough guide 11:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> odd numbers being north-south and even numbers being east-west 11:01:29 <planetmaker> like the A20 also crosses nearly whole Germany East-West 11:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the A20, but i imagine it's along the coast? 11:03:33 <planetmaker> yes 11:03:59 <planetmaker> "Ostseeautobahn". But they're kinda extending it to the North sea afaik 11:04:07 <Rubidium> planetmaker just has to follow the E30 to get to the sea 11:04:19 <andythenorth> anyone fancy patching 'transfer' order so that it defaults to 'transfer and no loading' 11:04:21 <andythenorth> ? 11:06:38 <planetmaker> sounds reasonable, andythenorth :-) 11:09:39 <planetmaker> basically transfer and load is a non-option 11:10:42 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I know someone who will disagree with that 11:11:49 <planetmaker> Where is that desirable to pickup the same stuff again? 11:12:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: not forbid it to use transfer-and-load, but make it default to transfer-and-leave-empty, as that is 99% of the use cases 11:12:50 <planetmaker> actually I don't quite see the need for unload 11:12:54 <ccfreak2k> Sounds confusing. 11:13:05 <planetmaker> without unload orders things are unloaded, if accepted 11:13:09 <ccfreak2k> We just have even numbers for horizontal highways and odd for vertical. 11:13:15 <planetmaker> with transfer orders they're unloaded, if ordered to do so 11:13:17 <planetmaker> why unload? 11:13:36 <ccfreak2k> planetmaker, so they don't try to pick their cargo back up? 11:13:40 <planetmaker> possibly to force it out, if conditionally accepted 11:14:07 <planetmaker> ccfreak2k: they don't in either of my two examples, if it's transfer and leave empty 11:14:18 <planetmaker> (what andy just asked for as default) 11:14:41 <ccfreak2k> Well in that case I am for changing the default. 11:14:47 * Eddi|zuHause wouldn't want to go on a "vertical" highway 11:15:17 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, just last week I went on a weekend excursion to the moon on one of them. 11:15:18 * Andycow parties like it's 1999 11:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Andycow: watching futurama season 1? 11:15:33 * Andycow calls up the local Pizza Hut and orders pizza for Zuu! 11:16:09 * Zuu already had lunch 11:21:49 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@80.251.192.2] has joined #openttd 11:23:26 * OwenS wishes, even more so, there was a quicker way to make "No unloading" orders too... 11:24:22 <Terkhen> hello 11:25:46 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:25:46 <Andycow> ajmiles: Nah, morning! 11:26:02 <ajmiles> morning 11:27:42 *** SpComb^_ [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 11:27:43 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:09 *** SpComb^_ is now known as SpComb 11:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what's the equivalent of /dev/zero under windows? 11:29:30 *** Zuu [~Zuu@80.251.192.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:42 <ccfreak2k> In what context? 11:31:56 <FauxFaux> I don't think there is. /dev/null only. 11:32:53 <ccfreak2k> At least one win32 build of dd implements an internal version of /dev/null and /dev/zero. 11:35:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "cat /dev/zero > filename" 11:39:25 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:58 <FauxFaux> You want to make an arbitarily big file..? 11:40:35 <planetmaker> hm... let's see whether the quick hack on the orders works :-) 11:42:41 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 11:42:42 <Andycow> Today is a good day to join #openttd. 11:42:49 <planetmaker> always 11:42:51 * SpComb^ pokes Andycow with the botstick 11:42:52 <Andycow> SpComb^, this is just too much, okay? 11:43:15 <SpComb^> botsnack 11:44:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, might be worth a ban... 11:46:05 * Belugas mumbles about the joy of having a kid who wakes up a dawn 11:46:30 <SmatZ> hello Belugas 11:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> # Guten Morgen, liebe Sorgen, seid ihr auch schon alle da 11:48:11 <Eddi|zuHause> # Habt ihr auch so "gut" geschlafen? na dann is ja alles klar 11:54:31 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 11:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> # Ich trink mir einen, steig ins Auto, trete voll aufs Gas 11:56:07 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@92.27.51.208] has joined #openttd 11:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> # "Enten" jagen macht besoffen doppelt soviel Spaà 11:56:43 <Alberth> Hello Belugas 11:57:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (hm... that might need as explanation: "Ente" [=duck] is the german (kinda dismissive) nickname for the citroen 2cv) 11:57:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://paste.openttd.org/226012 12:00:32 <Zuu_> You can do cat some_file.txt >NUL in windows IIRC 12:00:40 <Zuu_> (given that you have installed cat of course) 12:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu_: that's the wrong direction 12:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and i presume it works with "type" as well... 12:02:02 <Alberth> windows has no cats :) 12:02:15 <Alberth> only types 12:02:34 <Zuu_> well, I have windows and I have 'cat' since I've installed it. 12:03:37 <planetmaker> and frogs have no hair ;-) 12:03:45 <planetmaker> erm... 12:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if i had windows, i'd also have cat, but i was kinda searching for a (theoretical) native solution 12:03:59 <planetmaker> no reference to any person intended :-) 12:06:03 <welshdragon> Andycow is a bot guys. 12:06:03 <Andycow> I'm afraid, I haven't a clue. 12:06:36 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, I copy-pasted your whole German thing verbatim to an Austrian. 12:06:42 <ccfreak2k> To see how he responds. 12:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: yes, we figured that out after like the third nonsensical mind ;) 12:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> s/mind/line/ 12:07:09 <Eddi|zuHause> (wtf? typo?) 12:07:10 <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause: you're not going to ban him? 12:07:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not the person with op... 12:07:45 <welshdragon> ah 12:09:33 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3905 <-- better version 12:09:48 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@92.27.51.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: does that allow changing the load type back to something else? 12:11:54 <planetmaker> yes 12:12:05 <planetmaker> I only change the load type when transfer is selected 12:12:12 <planetmaker> no other checks in other places 12:14:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D99A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:02 <planetmaker> and that's actually IMHO all it needs 12:15:10 <planetmaker> clicks saved for the most used options 12:17:41 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-255-95.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 12:22:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D99A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:24:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 12:25:35 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@80.251.192.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:45 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-255-95.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:26:04 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-167-28.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 12:26:04 <Andycow> hehe. Yes, de_Ghosty: De_Ghosty: Howdy! 12:28:15 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 12:30:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:49de:fae5:4260:22d] has joined #openttd 12:30:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:30:37 <planetmaker> this bot is annoying 12:30:50 <welshdragon> somebody ban him 12:32:00 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, I have gotten a response! 12:32:20 <SmatZ> wasn't there a "no unauthorised bots" rule? 12:32:44 <planetmaker> I guess 12:33:04 <welshdragon> there is 12:34:43 <planetmaker> somehow generally bots other than service bots tend to turn out annoying 12:35:39 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 12:35:39 <Andycow> Look Sir, Zuu_! 12:36:22 *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu 12:36:27 <planetmaker> ... 12:47:25 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f052061246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 12:49:18 *** Grelouk [~Grelouk@93.26.203.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:29 * Belugas takes another mug of coffee and tries to look interested, while watching the cartoons with kiddo. and waves hello to all the wavers previously active 12:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: so? 12:52:42 <VVG> Why are there no pbs presignals? I mean, someone for sure suggested them, but they are not there for some reason. And that reason is? 12:52:56 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: they are there. 12:53:16 <fjb> Belugas! 12:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: you just need to remove the next signal 12:53:47 <VVG> ? 12:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: a presignal is red when the next signal is blocked, right? 12:54:21 <VVG> yep 12:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: just remove that next signal, and the first signal stays blocked 12:54:31 <planetmaker> [14:51] * Belugas takes another mug of coffee and tries to look interested, while watching the cartoons with kiddo. and waves hello to all the wavers previously active <-- :-) great pretender, you! :-) 12:54:43 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, I just thought I'd let you know. 12:54:45 <VVG> i don't get it 12:55:51 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: there is no reason for the second signal, if a train should not get stuck on it. 12:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> just remove it. 12:57:09 <VVG> oh 12:57:27 <VVG> i was talking about something different actually :) 12:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> then you need to learn how to ask the right question... 13:00:58 <VVG> sometimes such an entrance http://yfrog.com/1nasdjvp would be usefull if it was possible. Or is it possible and i just don't know how? 13:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so you're asking about priority signals... 13:03:44 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's not going to be included... 13:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you can maybe hope for the programmable signals patch to get to such a thing... 13:04:26 <VVG> i guessed as much, just wondering what was the reason 13:05:30 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: just a side note: how do you imagine that should work? a train coming from _one_ of the main lines would block the branch line train from entering _both_ lines 13:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> or you need both lines blocked for the branch line train to be affected at all, if only one main line train appears, the branch line train can still access both lanes 13:07:25 <VVG> yep, i put wrong signals on main lines, that should be normal pbs, and middle one should listen for input from combo signals, once one of them is red middle prepbs should allow a train to reserve a path. that's how i imagine it 13:07:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm afk but I'll look at the stuff you posted later 13:07:53 <VVG> err, once one of them is green, not red 13:08:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's just your transfer order's pony ;-) 13:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: but that is useless... you can't decide which path to reserve based on the state of the combo signals 13:09:45 <Eddi|zuHause> so the path reservation is random, and can still block your oncoming main line train 13:09:54 <VVG> that's for train to decide, signal should only allow a possibility, if a train wants. 13:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just saying your setup is useless... 13:13:06 <VVG> it is, with current signals, since pbs and presignals don't interact 13:13:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just saying your setup is useless even with your proposed signal 13:14:48 <VVG> i don't see how it is useless :( 13:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i told you: one train on main line, 1 combo red, 1 combo green: train on branch line is allowed to enter, has a 50-50 chance to cut off your main line train, since no restriction on the path can be made 13:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the same setup with "normal" priority signals works, as there is another (red) signal inbetween with only slightly more space needed 13:19:42 <lusted_gay> got a train stuck in a tunnel, how do i solve that one? 13:19:48 <lusted_gay> all trains have green lights too 13:20:13 <peter1138> stuck? 13:20:18 <Eddi|zuHause> lusted_gay: what do you mean with "stuck"? 13:20:43 <lusted_gay> that it wont come out in either end, like if there was a "blockage" in the tunnel itself 13:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> open the train list, and search the train there. it might say something like "waiting for free path" 13:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then you're probably missing a signal somewhere 13:21:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or a piece of catenary 13:22:06 <lusted_gay> will do, thanks 13:22:07 <VVG> now i see, that "restriction on the path" thing is what i didn't think about, thought it was magically automated :) 13:23:48 <VVG> wait, ain't it already done? i certainly did saw some of my trains just waiting in front of a pbs signal waiting for a free path in direction of station, while a roundabout loop was free 13:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: only reserved paths AHEAD of the train are considere 13:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> d, not reserved paths backwards 13:24:47 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:28:41 <VVG> http://yfrog.com/5pqwegp what about this? 13:29:39 <VVG> station in picture is the only thing in trains' order list 13:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> what about that? pathfinder says the direct path is shorter than the roundtrip 13:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so the train waits 13:32:58 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:23 <VVG> doesn't that mean that pathfinder can also say that one path of the prio setup from above is blocked and not allow reserving a path through it? this way prio should work, shouldn't it? 13:33:28 <ccfreak2k> Is this for pre/combo signals or PBS? 13:33:51 <VVG> a mix of them 13:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: no, because both paths ahead are exactly the same for the pathfinder. it cannot consider trains coming from behind that haven't reserved a path yet 13:37:58 <Eddi|zuHause> whereas in your station example, the train reservation is already ahed of the train 13:39:09 <VVG> there is no need to consider trains from behind, just read combo signal state. if green - allow reserving, if wanted. if red - don't allow 13:42:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-255-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:42:45 <Andycow> Hello :) 13:46:52 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 13:47:07 <welshdragon> Andycow: die please 13:47:07 * Andycow looks in the #openttd fridge 13:50:46 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=885996#p885996 <- I guess licenses are kinda hard to understand... 13:54:14 <fjb> Yes, on the other hand is the GPL awfully long. I prefer a BSD style licnece. 13:55:34 *** legosaft [~tomas@217.80-202-168.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 13:57:41 <legosaft> Small random parts of my monorail tracks disappear randomly in every game I play. Whats the deal with that? (I'm using 1.0.2 on ubuntu) 13:58:43 <ccfreak2k> Goblins are stealing your tiles! 13:59:13 <legosaft> Either that, or I can't find the "Build permanent tracks" checkbox? 13:59:58 <legosaft> If this is a bug that no one has heard of, maybe I'll be better off downloading a slightly older version? 14:00:02 <OwenS> fjb: I tend to take the MPL-style middle road. I do think that for some stuff the ISC license is the best option though 14:01:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:39 <Alberth> ufo disaster? 14:06:29 <legosaft> Alberth: You asking me? 14:07:01 <Alberth> that can be a reason why tracks disappear for no apparent reason 14:07:43 <Alberth> but normally it is a lot bigger than a single tile, so how many disappearing tiles are we talking about 14:08:05 <legosaft> We are talking about like a few tiles at a time 14:08:21 <Alberth> hmm, that makes it unlikely 14:08:23 <legosaft> And if I rebuild the tiles, a year or two later there's a good chance the same tiles are gone. Or some tiles close 14:08:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's usually the ufo disaster ;) 14:08:50 <legosaft> But at the same spot all the time? 14:09:08 <Alberth> they like clusters of tracks a lot 14:09:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, on big maps with few tightly packed rail lines, it tends to hit the same location 14:09:18 <Alberth> do you have disasters switched on 14:09:28 <legosaft> I see, well this might be the solution then 14:11:03 <legosaft> Maybe I'll actually notice stuff like this if I remove some of the noise from message settings. I've gotten used to completely ignore the ticker at the bottom. 14:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if anyone has an algorithm to get a better distribution in choosing from a one-dimensional subset of a two-dimensional space, he may speak forward 14:11:32 <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause, a roulette wheel? 14:11:34 <Eddi|zuHause> you should switch off the ticker 14:11:39 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:11:56 <legosaft> Well I switched it off for anything but disasters now 14:12:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: roulette wheel has a one-dimensional distribution, it only looks 2-dimensional... 14:12:59 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-188-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:04 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-188-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #openttd [] 14:13:09 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-188-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:11 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-188-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 14:13:37 <ccfreak2k> Isn't that what you wanted? 14:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> no... the key point is to have a two-dimensional space 14:14:54 <ccfreak2k> Three roulette wheels, each being on a plane perpendicular to the other two? 14:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: a roulette wheel is too uniform (circle, same width fields) to achieve that 14:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you understand the actual problem... 14:16:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:18:52 <ccfreak2k> How about a roulette wheel with smaller roulette wheels within its spaces. 14:19:10 <Eddi|zuHause> you're talking rubbish 14:20:01 <Zuu> planetmaker: Sure, but there are plenty of good simplifications that take up the main points of GPL. 14:20:44 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:35 *** Smoovious [~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Those who are different, change the world. Those who are the same, keep it that way.] 14:24:01 <VVG> i can't be the only one who wants the prio setup from above. certanly it was explained somewhere why pre-pbs aren't in ottd? 14:24:42 <ccfreak2k> Because PBS will find the best path automagically? 14:24:46 <frosch123> there were pbs presignals which cause a train to reserve a path accross the next signal 14:24:54 <ccfreak2k> Well, find A path. 14:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: frosch123 refers to michi_cc's patch, but that works completely different than your idea, and had some problematic points also 14:25:58 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:58 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip05.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:59 <OwenS> ccfreak2k: If only it were true 14:26:39 <Zuu> IIRC the purpose of the person who implemented YAPP was more oriented towards semi-realistic setups rather than hyper-perfomarce oriented playing. 14:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "advance signals" it was called 14:27:48 <OwenS> I do wish there were PBS-pre and PBS-combo signals. Would be quite useful in some circumstances... 14:28:12 * Rubidium points OwenS to #tycoon 14:28:13 <Zuu> If you come up with a good implentation of pre-PBS signals, they might be accepted. 14:28:13 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: the problem is a) that you are very fixed on the coop-style priorities, so you miss the bigger picture, and b) that it is bad game design to cater for only such a minor situation 14:28:49 <OwenS> Rubidium: I'm aware TTDPatch has it. I'm also aware that TTDPatch is a non-option ;-) 14:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, if more advanced priority signals should be implemented, it must be in a way that it does not use any more tracks/infrastructure than what the trains actually run on... 14:29:51 <frosch123> :p 14:30:25 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Thats a nice idea, though complex. If there are three tracks merging, how do you designate priority? 14:30:26 <Zuu> It might be possible to build a yield-signal that checks for a big enough gap in the non-yielding approaches. 14:30:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:31:28 <Zuu> However, just identifying the approaches etc. possible taking curves into account (lower max speed of major stream) etc. will make it a large challenge. 14:31:57 <OwenS> Zuu: Slow curves on the priority track are really a non issue; they'll just make it give too much way 14:32:03 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:09 <frosch123> Zuu: don't try to make signals more intelligent than the player 14:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: in the case of "programmable" signals, i'd say "if {tile|track} at {relative|absolute} <position> is {reserved|free|other...} => mark red" 14:32:39 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: You could actually do that with progsigs. I should update it to master 14:32:40 <Zuu> OwenS: The speed of the major road affects the required gap length 14:32:47 <Zuu> /road/track/ 14:32:57 <OwenS> Zuu: Yeah, this is difficult for mixed-train networks 14:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: but like i said before, the example setup of VVG needs additional path restrictions 14:33:43 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: When I bring it up to head, I should work on routing restrictions too 14:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> an other way of designing priorities is a "weak" reservation, and train-based priority which reservation wins out... 14:34:34 <Rubidium> but are weak reservations real? 14:34:50 <Rubidium> we can't ofcourse remove reality from OpenTTD... Belugas would be furious 14:35:02 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Thats difficult if trains have differing priorities at different points 14:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g: each train/order has a property "lookahead n signals" and "priority X" 14:35:10 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: I'll probably move to making programming an extension to all the existing signals though, rather than a special type 14:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> then the priority of the weak reservation must be stored for each trackbit 14:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and if a weak reservation hits another weak reservation with lower priority, that reservation is cancelled, and the appropriate train must stop at the previous signal 14:36:46 <OwenS> I'll have to look at how PBS interacts to see how to make ProgSigs interact with reservations.. 14:37:19 <planetmaker> Zuu, there are simplifications. Usually I link to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/GPL/2.0/ to describe the GPL 14:37:43 <Eddi|zuHause> problems here are a) the space requirements to store reservation, and b) computational complexity of getting the train belonging to a reservation. they must be balanced somehow 14:37:44 <planetmaker> fjb: re licenses: I believe you like BSD more :-P - but it's IMHO in some cases not viral enough. 14:38:05 <OwenS> planetmaker: BSD is not supposed to be viral 14:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: but sometimes one wants the license to be viral 14:38:31 <planetmaker> Though there's the CDDL which kinda came out better concerning collaboration in a multi-license world 14:38:34 <planetmaker> OwenS: I know 14:38:55 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:38:58 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: It's rare that it is in practice a benefit to the project 14:39:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i read about CDDL recently, but the license is very difficult to read for a non-lawyer 14:39:15 <planetmaker> OwenS: not to the project itself, OwenS 14:39:50 <planetmaker> But a BSD license basically allows anyone to sell my work without making the whole thing also accessible 14:40:30 <planetmaker> so people can really use my work to make a profit with it directly. That's not possible with GPL 14:40:32 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:55 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 14:41:11 <OwenS> planetmaker: To be honest, for applications its not much of an issue. Its when its applied to libraries that it pisses me off 14:41:20 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: which license is not difficult to read for a non-lawyer? 14:41:31 <OwenS> planetmaker: ISC license 14:41:44 <OwenS> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/isc-license.txt 14:41:51 <planetmaker> OwenS: well. No one is forced to use a specific library 14:41:56 <PeterT> Andycow: moo 14:41:57 <Andycow> Moo. Moo. 14:42:04 <planetmaker> I also do understand to put them under a GPL even 14:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i mean, there was no "easy" to understand summary, what the license is about 14:42:19 <OwenS> planetmaker: Why? 14:44:05 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:04 <OwenS> Placing a license under the GPL means that projects like Mozilla, FreeBSD and OpenSolaris cannot use them. For what benefit? 14:45:43 <planetmaker> it means exactly that, yes. It means that only projects which enforce open source for derivative projects can use it. 14:46:03 <planetmaker> that's what the other licenses don't always require in its entirety. Also not CDDL 14:46:13 <planetmaker> http://blogs.sun.com/chandan/entry/copyrights_licenses_and_cddl_illustrated 14:46:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:46:53 <OwenS> And has this helped anyone? All I've seen is it stifle small businesses. It pushes software which would be cross platform to be Windows only, because the cross platform library was not an option for them 14:47:41 <planetmaker> So the other option: let others use the open source ground work on libraries in order to make big $$$ is fine? 14:48:46 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Gone] 14:48:47 <planetmaker> Why would I programme a library for free which then others use to base their commerical programmes on? 14:48:53 <OwenS> planetmaker: Does it matter? They can use it anyway. Companies have successfully circumented the GPL quite trivially (For example, you build a GPL binary that interfaces with the lirbary, then talk to it over a socket) 14:48:59 <planetmaker> I'm not their extend workbench 14:49:01 <Rubidium> for libraries GPL is in my opinion not suitable 14:49:08 <OwenS> planetmaker: What is wrong with a commercial program using it? 14:49:27 <Rubidium> for applications it's a whole other story 14:49:28 <planetmaker> OwenS: it just depends what you want 14:50:35 <planetmaker> But I don't think it's generally nonsense 14:50:53 <planetmaker> Though I myself might not even chose gpl for a library but possibly lgpl 14:51:50 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20019 /trunk/src/ (console_gui.cpp newgrf_text.cpp): -Codechange: Apply function code style to a few small functions. 14:52:09 <OwenS> Pratcial experience with the LGPL shows that it doesn't actually help. All that happens is you get back useless megapatches which cannot be intergrated 14:52:23 <OwenS> (Though I don't mind LGPL libraries; they're fine) 14:54:38 *** snc [~snc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 14:57:40 *** welshdragon [~dragon@ip05.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 15:03:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 15:05:09 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20020 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Codechange: _script_file is used in only one function. 15:10:49 <fjb> planetmaker: I strongly dislike virality. The GNU people often think that their stuff is the only thing what matters and every body wants to steell from them. But avery little library is under GPL and so everything you do, how big it is, will have to use the GPL, or you are inventing the wheel over and over again instead of reusing existing libraries. 15:11:31 <planetmaker> fjb: it depends upon how you define virality 15:11:55 <fjb> If you link it, you are infected. 15:12:00 <planetmaker> the GPL one is the strictest and narrow-minded kind 15:12:34 <fjb> And the GLP is that long and complicated that I bet, that not half of the people using it understand it. 15:12:53 <planetmaker> but you could also just require to lay open the work, too. Or like CDDL for the CDDL part only (thus allow several licenses for different code parts) 15:13:03 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20021 /trunk/src/ (console.cpp console_cmds.cpp): -Codechange: Move variable declarations. 15:16:46 <fjb> You have to carefully review every licence if there is no compatibility issue. And reviewing the GPL is a pain especially if you are not a native English speaker. 15:19:07 <Alberth> luckily, you only have to do it once for each license 15:20:11 <fjb> Untill the next project starts. I tend to forget every little detail about a complicated licence. And I'm not a lawyer so I may misinterpret it. 15:22:23 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: alberth * r20022 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Doc: Add some doxygen comments. 15:23:38 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 15:42:33 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 15:43:00 <VVG> evening 15:43:24 <PeterT> morning 15:43:34 <VVG> thubms up to you :) 15:57:14 <Zuu> VVG: Never though about time zones have you? 15:59:42 *** quietus [~irc-compl@122.49.145.185] has joined #openttd 16:00:18 <Zuu> Interesting... The AI debug window broke on a crash message :-) 16:00:35 <Zuu> (broke on == using the berak on string feature) 16:01:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's braked :) 16:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> break -> broke, brake -> braked 16:05:59 <quietus> what about berak? 16:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be swedish :p 16:08:47 <VVG> Zuu: i did 16:09:21 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has joined #openttd 16:09:22 <Andycow> Morning! 16:10:09 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:10:55 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:13:58 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:27 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:54 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:29:55 <quietus> !seen quietus 16:32:14 *** Tennel [~Tennel@port-ip-213-211-212-60.reverse.mdcc-fun.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:33:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:18 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:55 <PeterT> @help seen 16:44:55 <DorpsGek> PeterT: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself. 16:44:59 <PeterT> quietus: ^ 16:46:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.250.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:50:19 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 16:51:23 <fjb> Not quiet enough to get recognized as such. 16:54:12 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.215.186] has joined #openttd 16:59:05 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 17:01:45 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:05:53 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:57 <Zuu> mmm - typical swedish food - kebab :-) 17:09:30 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f052061246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:10:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:14:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:07 <Zuu> Or as someone said, if you move to sweden you must like thai-food and kebab/pizza as that is all they eat. 17:19:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:19:37 <orudge> reminds me a bit of the UK, where the most popular food, according to various surveys these days, is curry :p 17:19:47 <orudge> with kebabs and pizzas of course being a popular late-night food 17:20:05 <Zuu> Do they have kebab in the US? 17:20:26 <orudge> it's not quite so common, but yes 17:20:27 <Zuu> I was surprising in Vancouver that there were no kebab over there. Or at least not at every street corner. 17:20:40 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:20:54 <orudge> I've not really come across it myself much in the Twin Cities, at least not in the same way you'd find in the UK 17:21:02 <orudge> they tend to be found more in 'ethnic' areas 17:22:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:30:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: you can't have more döner than the germans :p 17:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> really, over here they have more döner shops than all other fast food stuff together... 17:36:07 <Zuu> döner? 17:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> döner kebab? 17:36:23 <orudge> I noticed them being rather popular in Austria 17:36:41 <Zuu> we call it just kebab. 17:36:55 <Eddi|zuHause> we call it mostly döner ;) 17:37:33 <valhalla1w> om nom nom 17:37:34 <Zuu> According to wikipedia, in sweden "The word "kebab" is normally associated with döner kebab made purely from beef or sometimes chicken." 17:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany it's the law that if it's made of chicken, it may not be called "kebab" 17:38:16 <Rubidium> ah... just wanted to say that the English wikipedia says something slightly different 17:38:25 *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw 17:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> [usually it results in being called "chicken döner"] 17:38:52 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: heh. there was a TV program in NL 6 months ago where they found out one kebab store was actually selling pig meat as kebab 17:38:58 <Rubidium> "kebab with no qualification generally refers more specifically to shish kebab or döner kebab" (where shish kebab is similar to Shashlik) 17:39:27 <Rubidium> valhallasw: one of my favourite programs 17:40:00 <valhallasw> Rubidium: try "De Wilde Keuken", which is quite nice, too 17:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be interesting to research if "shish kebab" and "shashlik" are actually etymologically related 17:42:29 <Rubidium> valhallasw: by the looks of it it's the same kind of program (same presenter/tv company); maybe I've even seen a part of it already 17:43:03 <Rubidium> and I thoroughly hated that my two favorite programs of the week would be broadcast at the fracking same time 17:45:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: translators * r20023 /trunk/src/lang/ (irish.txt malay.txt unfinished/chuvash.txt): 17:45:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: chuvash - 12 changes by mefisteron 17:45:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: irish - 37 changes by Rubidium, tem 17:45:22 <CIA-9> OpenTTD: malay - 94 changes by Syed 17:55:24 <PeterT> Rubidium speaks Irish? 17:55:34 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:56:13 <valhallasw> Rubidium: not the same presenter, but also RVU, yes :-) Also, uitzending gemist. It's awesome ;) 17:56:54 <Rubidium> valhallasw: Wouter Klootwijk was one of the earliest "Keuringsdienst van Waarde" presenters 17:57:20 <valhallasw> oh? never noticed that 17:57:24 <valhallasw> shame on me 17:57:44 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:58:40 <Rubidium> valhallasw: http://sites.rvu.nl/person/559/nl (hope that's credible enough as source) 17:59:11 <valhallasw> of course it is 17:59:20 <valhallasw> I appreciate the effort of actually finding a source, btw 17:59:51 <valhallasw> anyway, I'm gone 17:59:54 <Rubidium> ciao 18:00:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:40 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:07:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:03 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 18:14:12 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76677.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:00 *** quietus [~irc-compl@122.49.145.185] has quit [] 18:18:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7519C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:21:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:14 <lusted_gay> is there any way to use "replace vehicle", but with the same type? 18:26:17 <lusted_gay> (case of aging) 18:26:39 <Ammler> wiki -> renew 18:26:46 <lusted_gay> thanks 18:27:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:28:05 <Ammler> http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Vehicles#Autorenew 18:28:39 *** GVV [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has joined #openttd 18:31:23 *** VVG [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:28 <PeterT> !score 18:36:28 <Eoin> FIFA World Cup: United States 0 - 1 Ghana (1st Half) 18:36:34 <PeterT> grr...stupid ghana 18:38:54 <Alberth> ? ghana is doing better than the usa 18:46:37 <PeterT> I know! 18:46:40 <PeterT> *puke* 18:47:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, they represent whole africa now ;) 18:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and everybody knows that the USA suck in football (soccer) 18:48:29 <Rubidium> yeah, they like handegg more 18:48:58 *** GVV [~sdfkhksd@85.249.0.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:24 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: just learned, that football _is_ football, only the USA calls is that silly 18:50:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i know 18:51:14 <PeterT> just for that, I'm rooting for England 18:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: technically, it's called "association football" 18:51:36 <Ammler> maybe because they call their own cheating football the same ;-) 18:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> (to differentiate it from "rugby football" [which is basically an ancestor of "american football"] 18:54:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: well, their problem is that they can't stand to be not-first. so they have to invent a new sport where they can have a "world champion" after new orleans plays against indianapolis... 18:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> (in other sports they have usually also canadian teams competing... in their leagues) 19:02:43 <Ammler> hehe, indeed 19:06:49 *** IA_Laptop [~IA_Laptop@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:20:10 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:36 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-32-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:32 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-125-8.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:24:52 *** argon [bsftgb@cpc2-hawk1-0-0-cust412.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:24:58 <argon> anybody up for a game? :) 19:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium against Argon... may be a boring game... 19:32:51 <Rubidium> yeah, I'm already bored 19:34:02 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 19:34:05 <argon> lol 19:34:19 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:34:36 <argon> it's based on a heightmap of the americas, with a bunch of GRFs to boot 19:34:39 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [] 19:36:32 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:37:10 *** Illegal_Alien is now known as Guest1237 19:37:11 *** IA_Laptop is now known as Illegal_Alien 19:37:43 *** Illegal_Alien is now known as Guest1238 19:37:43 *** Guest1237 is now known as Illegal_Alien 19:38:05 *** Guest1238 is now known as IA_Laptop 19:38:06 <Rubidium> looks like someone tried to evade the American police 19:40:11 <Eoin> xD 19:42:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:43:46 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 19:46:18 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:47:12 *** argon [bsftgb@cpc2-hawk1-0-0-cust412.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 19:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> 11m 19:48:21 *** phalax [~phalax@c213-100-73-226.swipnet.se] has joined #openttd 19:48:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:51 <welshdragon> ok, so I fail 19:50:11 <welshdragon> I've just installed OpenTTD to a server running CentOS 19:50:16 <welshdragon> and it doesn't run :( 19:55:38 <Ammler> explain "installed" 19:56:01 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- *I* use it, so it must be good!] 19:56:09 <welshdragon> i unzipped the Generic Linux zip file 19:56:13 <Ammler> and more details about "doesn't run" 19:56:46 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 19:56:49 <welshdragon> -bash: openttd: command not found 19:56:53 <welshdragon> :P 19:56:56 <welshdragon> simple 19:57:05 <welshdragon> PeterT is fixing it though :P 19:57:24 <Rubidium> that's not quite installing then 19:57:30 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.231] has joined #openttd 19:57:52 <Ammler> maybe you like to use my rpms: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/openttdcoop/CentOS_5/ 19:58:32 <welshdragon> ty Ammler 19:58:45 <Ammler> openttd-dedicated it would be 19:59:49 <Ammler> centos has no lzo2 20:00:40 <PeterT> Ammler: which one do I download for welshdragon? 20:01:09 <welshdragon> the Dedicated version :) 20:01:56 <PeterT> http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/openttdcoop/CentOS_5/i386/openttd-dedicated-1.0.2-6.1.i386.rpm <-- I got this one 20:02:01 <PeterT> how do I install it? 20:02:09 <PeterT> you're probably better with Suse/CentOS than me 20:03:01 <Ammler> you could add the repo and then "yum install openttd-dedicated" 20:03:17 <welshdragon> i have no sudo access 20:03:25 <Ammler> or rpm -Uhv url-to-ropm 20:03:27 <welshdragon> doubt I can get it too :( 20:04:19 <Ammler> well, then download the source an run make :-) 20:04:34 <Ammler> or "unrpm" :-) 20:04:55 <fjb> Does OpenTTD have to be installed? 20:05:06 <Ammler> but you might still miss some libs 20:05:10 <PeterT> Ammler: we miss the libs 20:05:17 <PeterT> <welshdragon> i have no sudo access <-- because of this 20:05:38 <IA_Laptop> get back to your own channel :P 20:05:39 <Ammler> tell the admin, what you need 20:05:57 <PeterT> indeed, welshdragon 20:06:09 <PeterT> IA_Laptop: meanie :( 20:06:26 <welshdragon> pff 20:06:33 <welshdragon> Aliens don't belong here 20:11:47 <Alberth> welshdragon: path/to/bin/openttd then? 20:12:26 <Alberth> although without lzo2, there is not much you can load :p 20:12:56 <Rubidium> Alberth: lzo2 is used for like <= 0.3.0 savegames 20:13:55 <Alberth> oh, modern games is no problem then :) 20:14:10 <welshdragon> yeah 20:14:24 <welshdragon> i'm wanting to run 1.0.2 20:15:16 <Alberth> I'd expect that you need to build from source, as usual binaries use way too new libraries for centos 20:15:40 <welshdragon> heh 20:15:44 <Ammler> well, he could try the binaries from my rpm 20:15:59 <Alberth> does ldd path/to/bin/openttd give 'not found' like messages? 20:16:03 <Ammler> welshdragon: did you? 20:16:26 <welshdragon> Ammler: ask PeterT 20:16:39 <welshdragon> he's the one who was trying to fix it :P 20:17:12 <Alberth> Ammler: centos uses versions of programs at least 3-5 years old 20:17:30 <Alberth> most linuces are not that compatible 20:17:30 <Ammler> Alberth: the rpm from my repo are built with those 20:17:50 <Alberth> nice 20:18:07 <Ammler> that is why for example, I had to build lzo2 self for it 20:19:01 <Ammler> welshdragon: if all fails, I can build you a zip on centos :-) 20:19:12 <PeterT> Ammler: that would be lovely 20:19:36 <welshdragon> ^ this 20:22:26 <Ammler> ok, it needs some time to run the chroots 20:22:33 <Ammler> triggered it... 20:36:49 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DAD59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 20:37:49 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:38:29 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:41:47 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:44:06 <Ammler> PeterT: welshdragon: http://obs.openttdcoop.org/CentOS_5/ 20:44:17 <PeterT> Ammler: Love you 20:44:31 <Ammler> he, yuNw :-P 20:44:39 <welshdragon> i second PeterT's gratitude :P 20:44:43 <Ammler> but still it might miss libs 20:45:09 <Ammler> hmm, I could try to build static, is that possible? 20:45:31 <PeterT> what's static? 20:45:47 <Ammler> the libs in the binaries 20:46:12 <PeterT> do we need the libs to run a server? 20:46:17 <PeterT> what libs are missing? 20:46:21 <PeterT> freetype, liblzo2? 20:46:25 <Ammler> that you can tell me 20:46:47 <Ammler> lzo2 isn't necessary, we learned 20:46:57 <PeterT> yes sir :-D 20:47:11 <Ammler> if it doesn't work, run ldd openttd 20:47:12 <Rubidium> oh... I'm so going to start a server using lzo2 as savegame compression :) 20:47:45 <welshdragon> PeterT: if we need anything doing we're to write a shopping list 20:47:53 <welshdragon> the admin will do it tomorrow :) 20:48:41 <Ammler> freetype isn't needed by the dedi version 20:50:01 <Ammler> but if you can order the admin to install something, then tell him to install openttd-dedicated from my repo 20:50:10 <Ammler> then you have also all needed libs :-) 20:50:24 <PeterT> Rubidium: lol :D 20:50:30 <Ammler> for future own builds 20:51:49 <welshdragon> ok 20:52:52 *** IA_Laptop [~IA_Laptop@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:01 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:55:06 <Ammler> ldd: http://paste.openttd.org/226014 20:56:41 <welshdragon> Ammler: what's your repo address? 20:57:17 <Ammler> already posted 20:57:45 <welshdragon> the http://obs. link? 20:57:57 <Ammler> no :-) 20:58:03 <Ammler> go more back 20:58:22 <welshdragon> got it 20:59:13 <welshdragon> will ap+ run on CenTOS? 20:59:41 <PeterT> it runs on Linux in general 20:59:53 <welshdragon> link? 21:00:03 <welshdragon> I can then get it installed by the admin 21:00:15 <PeterT> one sec 21:00:19 <PeterT> ap+, no 21:00:23 <PeterT> just ask for tcl and Expect 21:00:35 <PeterT> ap+ gives you source = http://svn.openttdcoop.org/tools/autopilot/branches/ap+ 21:02:32 <welshdragon> aah, ok 21:03:13 <Ammler> tcllib for centos: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/openttdcoop:/branches:/devel:/languages:/tcl/CentOS_5/noarch/tcllib-1.11.1-6.2.noarch.rpm 21:03:54 <welshdragon> ty Ammler 21:04:07 <Ammler> everything else you should get from the default repos 21:12:50 * welshdragon runs to get a botsnack 21:20:20 *** phalax [~phalax@c213-100-73-226.swipnet.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:36:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:36:03 <Andycow> Morning! 21:36:50 <Rubidium> Andycow: do you really want to stay here? If so, tell me what those things are you use on rail tracks to keep trains from crashing 21:36:51 * Andycow digs a hole 21:37:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 21:38:56 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*andypoo@*.perm.iinet.net.au] by Rubidium 21:38:56 *** Andycow was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [oh... poor you, falling in your own hole [stupid bot]] 21:42:08 <Vadtec> Rubidium: arent you one of the people in charge of managing the wiki? 21:42:33 <Rubidium> why? 21:43:22 <Vadtec> i wrote an extension to MW a couple weeks ago, dunno if openttd would have a use for it or not, http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TODOListProgressBar 21:43:34 <Vadtec> just thought id mention it to you in case it could be handy 21:44:35 <Rubidium> I won't need a progress bar for anything I do on the wiki 21:44:49 <Vadtec> well, i meant in general 21:44:57 <Vadtec> no worries, was just offering it 21:46:09 <Rubidium> the wiki is probably (way) too old anyway 21:46:43 <Vadtec> older than 1.15.X? 21:47:05 <Vadtec> err 1.8.X 21:47:28 <Vadtec> afaik, as long as its not older than 1.7.X my code should run on it 21:47:33 <Vadtec> moot point though lol 21:47:50 <Vadtec> eh, anyways, was just a friendly offer 21:53:24 <fjb> Who was that cow? 21:53:45 <devilsadvocate> i guess this is probably the wrong place to ask this, and i really dont want to start a flame war or anything, but could anyone tell me what the difference between ECS and FIRS is, and if either is likely to work with Cargodest? O:) 21:53:50 <Rubidium> fjb: wrong question 21:55:13 <Rubidium> fjb: "what was that cow?" would have been appropriate. The answer to that would be "an unauthorised bot" 21:55:48 <planetmaker> devilsadvocate: it's the same difference between a mercedes and a BMW 21:55:55 <fjb> Ah, didn't sound like a bot, so I wondered. 21:55:56 <planetmaker> most likely both work 21:56:27 <theholyduck> planetmaker, but in reality, both are expensive and suprisingly common? 21:56:59 <fjb> Both are different implementations of the same thing. 21:57:00 <planetmaker> they serve the same purpose. Just with slightly different points emphasized 21:57:08 <devilsadvocate> oh, ok. I wasnt quite sure if cargodest could handle the whole acceptance limit at industry thing from ECS, and i wasnt sure if FIRS had that. 21:57:36 <planetmaker> devilsadvocate: I don't know. And cargodEst is very old. You've to try 21:57:53 <Rubidium> fjb: it replied way too quick with a stupid reply on my quite complex question 21:58:03 <devilsadvocate> oh, sorry, cargodist, i mean 21:58:04 <devilsadvocate> ok 21:58:08 * devilsadvocate goes to try 21:58:50 <Rubidium> fjb: and it hasn't done much more than saying "moo" and "morning" at "random" times (where "morning" was only extremely quick after a join, like within 1 second) 21:58:51 <fjb> Rubidium: That is indeed a strong hint. 21:59:03 <planetmaker> devilsadvocate: FIRS has afaik no acceptance limits 22:00:24 <Rubidium> planetmaker: in any case cargod* doesn't have a clue about cause and effect w.r.t. cargo at industries 22:00:52 <Rubidium> like bringing the same quantity of coal to that factory as iron gives the biggest yield of steel 22:01:04 <andythenorth> FIRS has no acceptance limits 22:01:26 <Rubidium> lies!... everything has acceptance limits 22:01:51 <Rubidium> like that there is no ADSL that doesn't have a download limit 22:02:05 <andythenorth> Rubidium: I stand by my point :P 22:02:09 <andythenorth> FIRS has no acceptance limits 22:02:14 <andythenorth> OpenTTD has acceptance limits 22:02:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:02:45 <andythenorth> objectively, FIRS (a) was started more recently than ECS (b) comes in only one grf file 22:02:51 <Rubidium> andythenorth: actually, that would be NewGRF imposed limits triggered by FIRS 22:03:03 <andythenorth> hmm 22:03:07 <Rubidium> as you're using a cargo callback 22:03:12 <fjb> PBI's limits annoy me as they are lower than one of my usual trains carries. 22:03:19 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 22:03:28 <andythenorth> Rubidium: you're correct. There *are* acceptance limits in FIRS. 22:03:41 <andythenorth> due to cargo cb 22:03:53 <devilsadvocate> :| 22:03:58 *** George is now known as Guest1251 22:04:06 <Rubidium> and now I'm bored 22:04:27 <andythenorth> I could have carried on arguing. Would that help? 22:05:14 <andythenorth> acceptance limits are about 65,536 x 8 per month 22:05:38 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@87.80-202-130.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:05:41 <andythenorth> so about half a million tonnes, approx 22:05:48 <andythenorth> depends on how many other cargos can be delivered 22:05:57 <fjb> Rubidium: Watch that race: Benz 2CNb (45km/h) against Vomag P20f (40km/h). :-) 22:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> are they dressed as turtles? :p 22:07:10 * Rubidium is so bored he has actually been considering installing some windows + MSCV 2010 in vbox 22:07:25 <Rubidium> but then... procrastination set in 22:07:30 <andythenorth> Rubidium should try writing some nfo. Never boring 22:07:35 <andythenorth> many things, but not boring 22:07:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:45 <Rubidium> andythenorth: did that... got boring 22:07:52 <fjb> No, they are blue and red, so easy to differentiate. 22:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> my cat is bored as well 22:08:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:08:29 * andythenorth is short of ways to amuse rubidiums and cats 22:08:44 * Rubidium wonders whether he sounds like Marvin 22:08:45 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did it already turn grey? 22:08:47 * andythenorth finds a picture of a big truck helps most situations 22:09:09 <andythenorth> devilsadvocate: did you make a choice of ECS / FIRS yet? 22:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "nachts sind alle katzen blau" 22:09:40 *** Guest1185 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:43 * fjb wonders what Eddi|zuHause feeds his cat. 22:13:09 <Terkhen> good night 22:13:28 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF9F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:13:35 <devilsadvocate> andythenorth, well, i've been playing ECS for a while now. I have a bad feeling about how it'll behave with cargodist, so i think i'll switch to FIRS soon now that i have cargodist compiled and basically working 22:14:10 <andythenorth> haven't tested with cargodist, other people have 22:14:22 <andythenorth> you might get some strange behaviour with 'supplies' 22:14:30 <andythenorth> but otherwise it should be fine 22:15:32 <fjb> It is worklÃng fine with cargodist. 22:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist and ECS shouldn't be a huge problem, as long as you balance the route capacities appropriately 22:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist helps distributing vehicles/*supplies 22:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> problem of cargodist is that it doesn't respond quickly to network restructurings/extensions, but that is independent from ECS/FIRS 22:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> cargodest was better there. because network changes were instant, but it couldn't do load balancing 22:26:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:30:10 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-86fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D99A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:51 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 22:39:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D99A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:41:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:42:50 <andythenorth> bedtime 22:42:53 <andythenorth> good night 22:42:57 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 22:43:54 <PeterT> yes, that's how a bouncer works... 22:44:19 <welshdragon> hmm? 22:44:40 <PeterT> he has a bouncer, but he parts the channels before leaving 22:44:42 <PeterT> how silly 22:46:03 <welshdragon> i'm sure there is a reason 22:54:09 <Wolf01> 'night 22:54:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host226-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:55:08 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd91b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:39 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba92d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-207-152.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> he doesn't know how to use the bouncer log anyway :p 22:57:27 <PeterT> hehe :D 22:57:32 <PeterT> it's not hard 22:57:44 <PeterT> /znc setbuffer #openttd,#openttdcoop.devzone 1000 23:01:45 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:02:51 *** heffer [~felix@static-87-78-98-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 23:03:29 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@ip4da39612.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 23:08:05 <fjb> PBSs are saving a lot of virtual lives. 23:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a time where they were causing a lot of loss of these :p 23:12:29 <fjb> I didn't know the game in that times. 23:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> also, rail crossings on double tracks are death traps 23:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> especially with articulated vehicles 23:18:44 <fjb> Yes, and breakdowns on the rail are also not advisable. 23:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> also not advisable: road crossing directly in front of station where trains turn around :p 23:23:43 <fjb> One of the AIs and I have a competing bus line which croses one of my railway lines in a town. 23:29:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55928dd9.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:46 <fjb> http://imagebin.ca/view/Kw_M2P.html 23:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you have really few signals... 23:34:20 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 23:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but i hate road grids... 23:35:57 <fjb> Trains longer than a block length are looking very strange. And the street layout was random. Changed that because I also dislike the grid. 23:36:52 <ccfreak2k> I like the grid layout. 23:36:57 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f052061246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 23:38:24 <fjb> It gets annoying when you are building something exactly on that grid. 23:38:35 <fjb> not exactly 23:39:17 <ccfreak2k> That's why I plan ahead. 23:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i really miss diagonal level crossings... 23:41:44 <fjb> And then an AI builds a long road to connect some towns... That will usually interfere with the grid. Another thing are mountains. 23:42:04 <fjb> Diagonal level crossings would be helpful. 23:43:56 <fjb> My screenshot shows some of the grid problems. 23:44:04 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i wondered about that double road... 23:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the town grid could try to adjust to existing roads... 23:44:46 <fjb> The double road is one. I made a highway for the bus race out of it. 23:45:16 <fjb> The town grid would change from block to block then. 23:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean it should just not build a road if one is already next to it. 23:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the code for that is already in the original/better road pattern 23:46:03 <fjb> Second problem is the short double road at the wood station at the lower corner of the screen shot. 23:46:43 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.215.186] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:58:16 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-13-89.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:59:33 *** legosaft [~tomas@217.80-202-168.nextgentel.com] has left #openttd []