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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 06:14:58 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:19:04 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:49 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:42 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.41] has joined #openttd 06:31:27 <Terkhen> good morning 06:33:03 <Terkhen> nice, a night log that does not look like someone's twitter 06:33:37 <dihedral> morning Terkhen 06:33:41 <dihedral> i totally agree :-D 06:34:09 <dihedral> esp if you are referring to Pi-Gesundheit (as Rubidium tends to nick name him/her/it) 06:35:07 <Rubidium> dihedral: sorry, but that name is coming from Eddi 06:35:14 <dihedral> oh 06:35:37 <dihedral> anyway, good morning ;-) 06:38:17 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:38:34 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:59 <andythenorth> morning 06:55:05 <planetmaker> good morning 06:55:35 <planetmaker> I just 'stole' your FIRS colour scheme for newgrf descriptions, andythenorth ;-) 06:56:28 <andythenorth> I'm not sure it was mine anyway :o 06:58:20 <planetmaker> :-) 06:58:30 <planetmaker> It kinda follows from they style of the GUI around it 06:59:47 <andythenorth> /me ponders reworking some FIRS cargo chains 07:00:39 <planetmaker> hm 07:00:41 <planetmaker> why? 07:01:33 <andythenorth> dunno 07:01:38 <andythenorth> probably not necessary 07:02:18 * andythenorth should play a game 07:04:41 * andythenorth plays a game 07:04:51 * andythenorth thinks there are problems with town cargos 07:05:40 <dihedral> Terkhen, luckily you did not enter the channel like... just now ^^ 07:06:23 <planetmaker> apropos town cargos, andythenorth 07:06:37 *** bryjen [~bryjen@75.81.201.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:43 <andythenorth> hmm 07:06:53 <planetmaker> There's the proposal to modify TTRS banks such that they become a money press, accepting paper and <something> 07:07:00 <planetmaker> maybe some metal 07:07:05 <planetmaker> good? bad? 07:07:10 <Terkhen> sorry? 07:07:12 <andythenorth> I saw that. Not interesting to me, but would be an easy add-on 07:07:32 <planetmaker> alternative is: they become just houses 07:11:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: use slot 1E or similar for a 'currency' cargo 07:11:49 <andythenorth> then put a bank somewhere up around 40 07:23:43 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:23:43 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:29 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tlubrasgw1-fe86de00-246.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:28:48 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:28:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: no new cargo. Just accepting existing FIRS cargos 07:29:00 <andythenorth> nothing produced? 07:29:15 <planetmaker> I'd not do that 07:29:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:36 *** lordaro [~the_overl@host86-150-59-169.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:30:46 <lordaro> woo! i'm back! TrueBrain active yet? 07:31:39 <dihedral> stalker! 07:32:12 <lordaro> :p this is my best bet of finding him 07:32:20 <dihedral> no it's not 07:32:28 <dihedral> it's your best bet of hitting a few ignore lists 07:32:51 <planetmaker> :-) 07:32:52 <robotboy> hello 07:33:14 <lordaro> well how would you suggest finding TrueBrain? 07:33:23 <dihedral> have a look at the logs ;-) 07:33:28 <planetmaker> lordaro: you last post in the thread you asked him to read doesn't contain a question. At least at the time you asked 07:33:35 <planetmaker> As such he already answered you 07:34:00 <dihedral> + he asked why on earth you so desperately want an answer from him if anybody else could answer 07:34:01 <planetmaker> There was no lie that you missed him yesterday(?) answering you 07:34:38 <lordaro> ok, where are the logs? 07:34:56 <planetmaker> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 07:35:02 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:42:03 <lordaro> so he replied in the ~1 hour i wasn't on here. typical:-/ 07:50:39 <lordaro> planetmaker: and what do you mean there isn't question in the thread? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=899657#p899657 07:52:02 <Yexo> lordaro: "help?" is technically a question, but it's not one you'll get an answer too 07:52:34 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=899586#p899586 <-- that was your last posting at the time TB read that, I think 07:52:52 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:53:28 <Yexo> in that case my point applies even more, there is no question at all in that post except for "how to contact TB?" 07:53:50 <dihedral> like i said, stalker! 07:54:35 <Yexo> lordaro: I tried to run the tournament system yesterday too 07:54:53 <Yexo> the main problem is that the score output from openttd doesn't end up at stdout 07:55:10 <Yexo> I haven't been able to found out why not 07:55:58 <lordaro> well if you can't find out why not, i've got no hope:-( 07:56:31 <dihedral> then you have no hope 07:56:33 <dihedral> problem solved 07:57:06 <Yexo> you might have better luck on a non-windows os 07:57:14 <Yexo> haven't tried that yet 07:59:11 <lordaro> i'm on ubuntu now, and always have been :( 08:01:02 <lordaro> dihedral: go away :P 08:03:32 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has left #openttd [] 08:03:38 *** planetmaker [~pm@vs185047.vserver.de] has joined #openttd 08:09:27 *** keoz [~keikoz@82.230.2.115] has quit [Quit: keoz] 08:10:36 *** De_Ghosty [~s@75-119-229-111.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:15:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wondering if Sand & Gravel should be one single cargo 08:16:05 <planetmaker> hm. Maybe. Let me see how they're used 08:19:05 <andythenorth> I think it's the wrong choice 08:19:08 <andythenorth> sand goes to glass works 08:19:15 <andythenorth> it was just a thought 08:19:42 *** robotboy is now known as roboboy 08:20:17 <planetmaker> hehe glass made from gravel ;-) 08:20:57 <roboboy> not verry see through 08:32:43 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 08:41:13 <andythenorth> map without water would be an edge case for FIRS 08:41:21 <andythenorth> is it likely, or pathological? 08:43:16 <planetmaker> it's not unheart of 08:43:36 <planetmaker> even though personally I'd prefer usually one with at least a little 08:43:47 <planetmaker> but FIRS should not rely on it indeed 08:44:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B4D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:08 <andythenorth> hmm 08:44:14 * andythenorth goes back to deleting stuff 08:44:25 * andythenorth will think about water later 08:45:37 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:45:46 <planetmaker> good thing about VCS is that you could still bring it all back easily ;-) 08:46:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth: when you delete strings... delete them also from translations 08:46:09 <Alberth> unless you mess with the history :) 08:46:09 <andythenorth> I did :) 08:46:17 <andythenorth> (delete strings, not mess history) 08:46:18 <planetmaker> good :-) 08:46:31 <planetmaker> Alberth: you nasty guy ;-) 08:46:32 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I even preserved the 'groups of 5' formatting :P 08:46:35 <planetmaker> good morning to you 08:46:36 <Alberth> good morning 08:47:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I found it makes it easier to keep track. Besides it was nearly like that in the original 7F file 08:47:29 <andythenorth> that's because I formatted it that way for readability :) 08:47:36 <planetmaker> :-) 08:50:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:52:44 <Terkhen> I should group the spanish translation too 08:54:07 <planetmaker> :-) 08:54:34 <planetmaker> I guess I'll wait yet another month before I touch the German one again. Too many changes :-P 08:54:54 <andythenorth> Terkhen: it's pretty quick 09:09:14 <andythenorth> Terkhen: don't do that formatting yet (unless it's done already) :P 09:09:23 <andythenorth> you'll have some merge to do otherwise 09:09:41 <Terkhen> don't worry, I'll do it after lunch 09:10:16 <andythenorth> pull first ;) 09:11:51 * andythenorth murders FIRS survey supplies concept :P 09:13:40 <Terkhen> okay 09:13:48 <Terkhen> what were they for? 09:14:08 <andythenorth> the idea was that players would only be able to fund primary industry near to a Survey Camp 09:14:16 <andythenorth> Survey Camp would need Survey Supplies or it would close 09:14:25 <andythenorth> think it would be un-fun 09:21:07 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:26:47 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.41] has joined #openttd 09:27:15 <Terkhen> seems complicated, yes 09:27:29 <andythenorth> it's gone :) 09:29:17 *** TomyLobo [~foo@port-212-202-171-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:37:02 <V453000> hi ... what does "smoke_amount" setting do? 09:37:27 <V453000> I have it in [vehicles] in the cfg but have no idea what is going on :) 09:39:13 <andythenorth> V453000: you get default smoke from trains, or 'more smoke' 09:39:22 <V453000> or none with 0? 09:39:23 <andythenorth> some people think 'more smoke' looks better :) 09:39:24 <Rubidium> or no smoke 09:39:28 <V453000> interesting 09:39:29 <V453000> thanks 09:39:34 <Rubidium> no smoke is faster! 09:39:39 <V453000> :) 09:39:44 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-23-216.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:39:45 <V453000> smoking kills. 09:43:05 <V453000> hehe it looks nice indeed 09:45:43 <andythenorth> hmm 09:45:55 <andythenorth> I invented way too many Farm cargos for FIRS 09:46:06 <andythenorth> and hauling food is realistic but boring :P 09:50:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:53:00 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it seems somewhat that after some time you grow bored of _any_ cargo ;-) 09:53:26 <andythenorth> ah 09:53:27 <planetmaker> if you go by that _any_ cargo you'll ever invent is boring 09:53:29 <andythenorth> good point 09:53:33 <planetmaker> Except maybe contrabant 09:53:34 <andythenorth> well I like Steel 09:53:40 <andythenorth> :P 09:53:51 * andythenorth thinks of other cargos 09:53:56 <andythenorth> nah, all boring :P 10:04:10 *** lordaro1 [~the_overl@host86-136-94-13.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:07:42 <Rubidium> Yexo/lordaro1: the patch seems to print the company information just fine, although it will only print it 10 ticks *before* the end. So if you set ticks to a million and wait two minutes it hasn't reached that point yet and thus it doesn't print and thus it seems to fail. 10:08:14 <Rubidium> what *could* be happening is that no AI is started, but there should always be a "local" company that's making a loss as it's not managed 10:09:03 *** lordaro [~the_overl@host86-150-59-169.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:24 <Rubidium> hmm, oh... "openttd -g" doesn't start a new company when using -v null 10:10:00 <Rubidium> bin/openttd -v null:ticks=11 <- works fine (uses intro game, which has a company) 10:10:21 <Rubidium> bin/openttd -g pile_final.sav -v null:ticks=11 <- works fine (uses an OTTDcoop game, which has a company) 10:10:32 <lordaro1> thanks Rubidium, and no, i didn't leave the room (it said i ping timeout-ed on my irc thing) 10:10:47 <Rubidium> bin/openttd -g -v null:ticks=11 <- appears to fail (has no company) 10:13:53 <lordaro1> can't say i know what to do with the information though;-), do i have to modify the python script or the patch? 10:14:09 * andythenorth needs more cargo slots :P 10:17:30 <andythenorth> silly old water 10:17:36 <andythenorth> wasting a cargo slot, and very boring :P 10:17:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make a different cargo get TE_WATER ;) 10:18:35 <lordaro1> yeah, who needs water anyway :D 10:22:35 <andythenorth> bah 10:22:45 <andythenorth> I need to sort a python dict on the keys 10:22:53 <andythenorth> umm, not on the keys, on the values 10:23:09 <andythenorth> default sort is keys, I need a lambda sort, but it baffles me :( 10:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> lambdas are easy ;) 10:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> like "lambda key,value: value" 10:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> don't be afraid of lambdas ;) 10:25:04 <andythenorth> in fact I need to sort the order of a dict of dicts, based on values in the nested dicts 10:25:40 <andythenorth> {'mapping_by_industry': {'windmill': {'title': 'Windmill', 'accepts': ('grain', 'manufacturing_supplies'), 'coded_status': 'coded', 'produces': ('food',)}, 'steel_mill': {'title': 'Steel Mill', 'accepts': ('coal', 'iron', 'scrap_metal'), 'coded_status': 'coded', 'produces': ('steel',)}} 10:25:47 <andythenorth> needs to sort on title 10:26:04 <andythenorth> hmm 10:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> gimme 5 minutes 10:26:10 <andythenorth> mapping_by_industry is a list 10:26:27 <andythenorth> that paste above has syntax errors 10:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah 10:26:42 <andythenorth> give it another } it should be fine 10:28:01 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.88.193] has joined #openttd 10:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what should the output format be? 10:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously, to be sorted, it must be a list 10:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> not a dict 10:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> or do you want an iterator that spits out the industries in the right order? 10:31:52 <andythenorth> if the list mapping_by_industry was sorted correctly, that would do it 10:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what i did now is something like: 10:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> c=b['mapping_by_industry'].items() 10:32:43 <Eddi|zuHause> c.sort(key=lambda x: x[1]['title']) 10:34:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'sort takes no keyword arguments' 10:34:22 <andythenorth> maybe my python version is too old 10:34:28 <andythenorth> might be 2.3 10:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i have 2.5, that is already very old ;) 10:34:46 <planetmaker> 2.4 is not new 10:35:04 <andythenorth> we don't upgrade production webservers to newest versions, stuff...breaks :P 10:35:07 <planetmaker> but many things still want a 2.x version 10:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't know that old python versions, but probably you just have to rewrite it a little 10:36:01 <andythenorth> there is a way to do it, I just don't grok lambda 10:36:07 <andythenorth> maybe it's not needed :o 10:36:19 <andythenorth> it's only ordering lists of industries on my website neatly 10:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try this: c.sort(lambda x,y: cmp(x[1]['title'],y[1]['title']) 10:39:21 <Rubidium> yup, python 2.5 must be more than 2 years old already 10:39:43 <andythenorth> the box is about 6 years old 10:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember when i started with python, 2.6 was about to be released 10:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that must be around 2 years ago, yes 10:41:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: also add ) ad libitum ;) 10:42:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: works (with a tweak) thanks 10:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> don't be afraid of lambdas. they are more afraid of you than you are of them 10:43:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks 10:45:26 <Rubidium> in any case lambda's are almost people: Î/λ vs 人 isn't that much of a difference 10:45:53 <Rubidium> s/'// (written too much Dutch lately) 10:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> dutch makes extensive use of '? 10:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or you mean you are overcompensating? ;) 10:47:52 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if a word ends with a, i, o, u, y the plural is "'s" 10:48:07 <Rubidium> so, "lambda's" is plural for lambda in Dutch 10:48:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds very confusing indeed ;) 10:48:46 <Rubidium> except when the word ends in eau, then plural is just s; e.g. cadeaus 10:49:10 <Eddi|zuHause> those are probably all french loan words ;) 10:49:33 <Rubidium> for extra fun, if it ends with s or f it becomes respectively zen and ven 10:49:39 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-23-216.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 10:50:03 <planetmaker> he :-) 10:50:10 <andythenorth> with 32 cargos, the highest ID is 1F yes? using 20 is an off-by-one error? 10:50:13 <Rubidium> e.g. huis -> huizen, but not always... fiets -> fietsen 10:50:59 <Alberth> andythenorth: assuming the first one has number 0, yes 10:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know all the rules in german, but additional to adding "-s" you could also have to append "-en" or "-er" and turn the vowel into an umlaut to make plural 10:51:10 <Rubidium> and for extra added fun: if it's a abbreviation and ends with an s you add "'en", e.g. GPS'en 10:51:43 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. "Haus" -> "HÀuser" 10:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> other times, you change nothing at all, especially when the word already ends with "-en" 10:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. "Wagen" -> "Wagen" 10:52:33 <planetmaker> Teller -> Teller ;-) 10:53:02 <planetmaker> but "Vater" -> "VÀter" 10:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea how foreign people learn that stuff :p 10:53:36 <Rubidium> what? DarkVÀter... that would've been useful 10:54:20 <Eddi|zuHause> having two of them? ;) 10:55:49 <planetmaker> :-P 10:56:08 <planetmaker> If there's "DarkVater", there's of course also "BrightVater" ;-) 11:05:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host176-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:05:36 <Wolf01> hello 11:06:11 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:36 <Alberth> hello 11:11:00 <__ln__> hëllo 11:12:36 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:12:46 *** ajmiles [~aj@78-86-188-187.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:17:39 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:05 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:23:29 * andythenorth ponders adding Cement and Clay 11:23:31 <andythenorth> meh 11:23:52 <planetmaker> sounds like a circle 11:24:02 <planetmaker> where you started 20 months ago ;-) 11:24:15 <andythenorth> the answer is 'economies' :P 11:24:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f46ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to finalize the cargo scheme somewhen :p 11:42:37 <planetmaker> indeed. 11:42:47 <__ln__> @seen Bjarni 11:42:47 <DorpsGek> __ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <Bjarni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wVADKznOhY <-- wtf. Some rich guy built a trebuchet and uses burning pianos as ammo 11:43:06 <__ln__> famous last words 11:43:24 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 11:51:31 <frosch123> do you have set a reminder to alarm when 0.5 years passed? 11:52:27 <__ln__> could be useful 11:53:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:55:23 <Alberth> for what??? their magical return? 11:57:58 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-67-91.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:02:58 <roboboy> hello 12:06:23 <andythenorth> Question: FIRS provides a Bakery and a Brewery in most towns. Both accept Grain and produce Food. Which do you deliver to? 12:08:03 <planetmaker> a random choice 12:11:39 <andythenorth> Brewery surely 12:11:40 <andythenorth> ? 12:11:44 <andythenorth> Or is cake better than beer? 12:12:00 <frosch123> sm*tz would deliver the brewery 12:17:20 <Rubidium> cake is more yummy than beer 12:18:38 * andythenorth wonders if we can patch Tropic to remove Water for town growth 12:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need to give each one some distinctive features that makes it in some way better, in another way worse than the other 12:18:43 <andythenorth> then I can have the cargo slot 12:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe food can get both TE_FOOD and TE_WATER? 12:19:18 <andythenorth> how does that work? 12:19:23 <andythenorth> sounds interesting? 12:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know ;) 12:19:29 * andythenorth -> wiki 12:20:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9cd5:e338:a604:93ca] has joined #openttd 12:20:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:20:20 <roboboy> well bear does contain warter 12:20:27 <roboboy> bah 12:20:28 <roboboy> beer 12:21:21 <andythenorth> :o 12:21:33 <andythenorth> me didn't know about town growth prop for cargos 12:21:40 <frosch123> yeah, give bear town effect water :p 12:22:04 * andythenorth lived in canada for a bit 12:22:05 <Rubidium> warter! 12:22:12 <andythenorth> bear had a different effect in canada 12:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wenn du als BÀr braun bist, dann kommst du in Bayern nicht mal lebendig ÃŒber die Grenze!" 12:25:01 * andythenorth ponders making Goods behave as Water 12:30:32 <planetmaker> liquid cookies? 12:31:10 <dihedral> cookies? with milk? 12:35:09 <VVG> hello 12:35:48 <roboboy> out of interest, why does the wiki sugest I stick svn in a folder called local when setting up MinGW/MSYS? 12:36:51 <VVG> i wonder, was there ever an idea of defining a climate through newgrf? 12:36:54 <Rubidium> got question. Find out who added that bit of text and ask that person 12:36:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B4D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:25 <frosch123> VVG: define "climate" 12:37:58 <andythenorth> is Paper an interesting cargo? 12:37:59 <VVG> those map settings that get's changed when choosing a climate in newgame gui 12:38:09 <VVG> get* 12:38:39 <frosch123> ok, what is the difference between a "climate" and a "newgrf preset", except the gui at world creation? 12:38:58 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-209.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 12:39:27 <VVG> dunno 12:39:54 <VVG> it was just a random thought that popped up in my head after reading last screen of your conversation here 12:41:15 <frosch123> too bad, you do not give me an opportunity to rant about the "canadian climate" :) 12:41:36 <lordaro1> roboboy: probably Petert, he re-did most of the page recently (ok, i think it was just after christmas) 12:42:17 <Hirundo> andythenorth: Cargoes on their own are rarely 'interesting', it's about their position in the big picture 12:42:44 <lordaro1> roboboy again: also, as you can see from that page, zlib is broken, there is a work around on the forums somewhere though... 12:42:51 <VVG> frosch123: sorry about that! 12:43:46 <frosch123> :p 12:47:26 <dihedral> frosch123, link? 12:48:23 <frosch123> i think it is called canadian theme pack or so 12:48:40 <VVG> what's wrong with it? 12:49:04 <VVG> there :) 12:50:01 <frosch123> it is a project which wants to replace basically everything (including the font), and does not cooperate with anything else. i.e. big monolithical crap 12:50:58 <dihedral> hehe 12:51:09 <VVG> sounds like they a keeping in line with the spirit of canadian train set 12:51:11 <dihedral> reminds me of alain :-P 12:51:15 <VVG> s/a/are 12:51:47 <frosch123> VVG: same guys 12:51:55 <frosch123> canadian train set is part of the thing 12:52:16 <lordaro1> good news irc people!! AI Tournament is now functional! (at least, i think so, it generated some results that seem to be in roughly the correct order) 12:53:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:53:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:53:55 <VVG> frosch123: yeah, know that 12:54:35 <VVG> i recall i got a bit frustrated when i tried to get canadian trains to behave friendly with other train sets i had loaded in a game 12:56:41 <frosch123> dihedral: but thanks to give me the opportunity :) 13:00:06 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:00:52 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:02:18 <dihedral> lordaro1, you really think all the "irc people" are interested? :-P 13:02:52 <VVG> doesn't look like virtual time patch is of any interest to anyone :( 13:03:32 <dihedral> had 9 downloads :-P 13:04:04 <lordaro1> dihedral: well someone like Yexo or Rubidium or anyone else who's followed this from the start. 13:04:04 <lordaro1> wait. when did i become lordaro1? 13:05:21 <dihedral> i am guessing at least one of them is glad that it works, but only because someone else then stopps bugging them :-P 13:05:53 *** lordaro1 [~the_overl@host86-136-94-13.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:20 <Rubidium> please stay there 13:07:56 <VVG> Setting time_taken based on a gui setting, this is not quite multiplayer safe, is it? 13:08:19 <Rubidium> so you'd have to pass the rounding factor in the command (thought it did that) 13:08:54 <Rubidium> oh no, it just always rounds to days 13:09:34 <Rubidium> bad luck; then you'll need to pass some sort of rounding factor I guess 13:09:55 <Rubidium> in autofill timetable 13:10:17 <VVG> for now i only thought about setting rounding factor by some server side setting 13:10:31 <VVG> now i need to check on source code to see how autofill works :) 13:10:50 *** lordaro [~the_overl@host86-136-94-13.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:11:41 <lordaro> thats better :) 13:28:17 <dihedral> Rubidium, failed! 13:41:05 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:42:05 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:31 <roboboy> hmph the machine I was setting MinGW up on just suddenly turned it's self off whilst compiling wget 13:51:22 <lordaro> lol, i have a computer that does that occasionally. i think it over-heats, but i'm not sure... 13:56:05 * roboboy wakes it up with WOL 13:57:23 <roboboy> is there anything special I need to setup in MinGW for DOS compiling 13:59:04 <Rubidium> the dos compilers? 14:02:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20644 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange [FS#4086]: unify the vehicle breakdown code (Hirundo) 14:04:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-56-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:05:43 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:06:14 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:38 <robotboy> brb whilst I watch it compile wget 14:14:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20645 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange [FS#4086]: unify the code for checking for breakdown handling as well (Hirundo) 14:19:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20646 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: make the code flow of breakdown handling a bit clearer 14:29:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-23-216.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:34:32 *** Biolunar [Mahdi@blfd-4db18674.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:54 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-115-110.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:39:35 <VVG> I introduced v->time_taken_rounding_factor, its value is set inside cmdautofill based on some bits passed there inside p2. updatevehicletimetables uses time_taken_rounding_factor when rounding. By default, rounding_factor = 1, DAY_TICKS in case of days. Is this ok considering network gameplay? 14:44:48 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:54 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:46:22 <Hirundo> As I've stated before, why not make days and virtual minutes a multiple of one another and do away with all the complicated stuff, including virtual seconds which are too small for practical use anyway 14:46:33 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:17 <planetmaker> @calc 24*60 14:47:17 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 1440 14:47:25 <planetmaker> ^ multiplier? ;-) 14:47:55 <VVG> DAY_TICKS = 86400 :) 14:48:28 <planetmaker> indeed it might be unneeded. Or does anyone play real-time? 14:48:32 <VVG> Hirundo: dunno. I use what is in ITiM 14:49:21 <planetmaker> think anew. Think concept :-) :-P Whatever the outcome then is 14:49:28 <Hirundo> There is most likely a reason that what is in ITiM is not in trunk 14:49:30 <planetmaker> (I don't know) 14:51:16 <Hirundo> I'll watch the whitespace next time Rubidium, thanks for including it this fast 14:52:27 <VVG> not sure, what can be achieved by making days and virtual time a multiple of each other 14:53:37 <Hirundo> For example, you don't need all this rounding magic, you can just round to DAY_TICKS 14:53:51 *** lordaro [~the_overl@host86-136-94-13.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:29 <Hirundo> Also you could probably get away with using something like _date / 60 and _date % 60 for hours and minutes, respectively 14:55:07 <Hirundo> Saving the lots of effort that is required to keep _virtual_time or whatever it's called in sync with the actual date/time 14:55:12 <VVG> do you suggest to base virtual time on days, and not on ticks? right? 14:55:41 <Hirundo> yes 14:55:59 <VVG> in that case, i don't see any point in doing so 14:56:11 <Rubidium> Hirundo: but what's 1 day then? 1 minute? 14:56:14 <VVG> as of now, it's a reference time system independent of days, whatever their length is 14:56:41 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:57:48 <Rubidium> if so you're probably going to have a lot of rounding trouble like why is 1 minute + 1 minute + 1 minute = 2:58? 14:57:56 <Hirundo> For me, calculating in hours/minutes is far easier than calculating the 60th day after february the 15th 14:58:51 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:59:33 <Hirundo> Those 99% who use stable OpenTTD don't care about daylength patches anyway, or about whether a minute is 60 or 74 ticks 15:00:05 <Rubidium> Hirundo: no, but the 1% that does will file bug reports 15:00:11 *** Noldo [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:16 <Hirundo> Bug reports about what? 15:00:28 <Rubidium> rounding issues and the like 15:01:12 <Rubidium> FS#4084 is well... not a bug I'd see a stable user trigger 15:01:13 <Hirundo> If you keep one day = one minute, there should not be visible rounding issues besides the current 15:02:29 <Rubidium> oh, no seconds at all? 15:02:45 <VVG> well, there are vibisble rounding issues in trunk. By default it is rounding to days, and you can often see that vehicle is X ticks earlier. 15:04:33 <Hirundo> Does your (real world) timetable list trains that leave at 11:33:26 ? 15:05:27 <Hirundo> One point of attention would be, though, that things should not break too badly when using the date cheat 15:06:29 <Rubidium> nope, though AFAIK the Shinkansen's operator's timetable lists passings at "waypoints" (stations it doesn't stop) in seconds. There departing or arriving a few seconds late is already considered "bad" 15:06:30 <VVG> that's something yet to work out, they seem to break sometimes :) 15:08:20 <robotboy> gmorning 15:08:38 * robotboy shall go and brush his teeth and then go to bed 15:13:19 <VVG> real world timetable operators, do they use seconds when making a new timetable? 15:16:02 <planetmaker> probably 15:16:14 <planetmaker> as mathematical basis 15:16:18 * Rubidium blames Duke University, RIPE NCC and Cisco for our unreachable (over IPv4) server of yesterday 15:16:28 <planetmaker> he 15:18:18 <Hirundo> our=*.utwente.nl? 15:18:34 <Rubidium> our=*.openttd.org 15:19:23 <Hirundo> doh :) 15:28:03 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-192-37-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:29:18 <robotboy> gnight 15:29:39 *** Timmaexx_ [~quassel@port-92-192-37-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:29:41 *** Timmaexx_ [~quassel@port-92-192-37-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:12 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 15:32:55 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:44 *** devilsadvocate [~devilsadv@202.3.77.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:35 *** Timmaexx [~quassel@port-92-192-37-155.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:53 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-209.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:55:03 <VVG> date cheat "breaks" timetables set with virtual time :( 15:55:45 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:56:04 <VVG> always, the sometimes part i meantion was because tt window didn't update while paused when i tested 15:58:33 <Rubidium> hello Lakie 15:58:42 <Lakie> Hi Rubidium 15:59:05 * Lakie is looking over all the new spec currently. 16:00:08 <Lakie> If the slope check bit isn't set is it safe to assume using the old logic of tile must be flat? 16:00:29 <Lakie> Or should it just accept anything 16:01:05 <Rubidium> Lakie: depending on what "flat" exactly means, yes use the old logic 16:01:25 <Rubidium> in my logic "flat" means an area that is flat after foundations are built 16:01:27 <Lakie> Well, considering objects can be any size, I wasn't sure so decided on flat-flat. 16:01:53 <Lakie> Since foundations could be used if it was built of the side of a mountain 16:02:05 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/for_lakie.diff <- I hope that is anywhere close near right :) 16:02:29 <Rubidium> Lakie: the logic I use requires the final "surface" to be at the same heightlevel 16:02:56 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:03 <Rubidium> (that diff is 95% copy-paste-edit, so might quite well be not right at all) 16:03:39 <Rubidium> although the objectflags comment in grfact.asm is (AFAICS) wrong, as well as the comment on var 43 (last chunk) 16:04:28 <Lakie> Well, var43 was changed fairly recently to return company colours with owner (as planned but not implemented). 16:05:03 *** Mks [~mks@c83-176-234-98.cust.tele2.se] has joined #openttd 16:05:04 <Lakie> And yes, I noticed it in the objects.inc it was marked dword but is actually a word. :/ 16:05:14 <Lakie> I obviously failed to update comments. 16:06:52 <Rubidium> Lakie: but I hardly doubt that it *ever* returned the construction stage :) 16:07:10 <Lakie> Ah yes, I just noticed that 16:07:28 <Lakie> Lol, lots of stuff from the really begining spec is in comments. :S 16:08:08 <Lakie> I'll probably change the slope check slightly, checking the auto slope flag before doing any calcs 16:08:41 <Lakie> Due you think I should allow the instance pointer to go throuh for autoslope (I imagine allowing most 40/60 vars to be used? 16:10:11 <Rubidium> I'm not checking autoslope during construction at all 16:10:24 <Lakie> Err. 16:11:07 <Lakie> Ok, I'll try explain better when being modified by autoslope it calls the callback 16:11:36 <Lakie> Should it allow a instance pointer so the usual vars work or not (ie. construction time / menu)? 16:11:38 <Rubidium> then it gets an instance in my implementation (pretty hard not to give it) 16:11:53 <Rubidium> whether it's useful is something I'm not sure of 16:12:17 <Lakie> Well, I have been wondering myself, as it used to kill the instance (the xor esi, esi) 16:13:13 <Lakie> I suppose one could check the tiles around it for their current slopes via var62? to make a better decision? 16:13:55 <Rubidium> yup 16:17:20 <Lakie> I assume just disabling autoslope on grf not loaded and if bit not set will suffice also? 16:19:08 <Lakie> In which case "Custom slope check" would determine callback 157 and if not set it'd just check that it'd still be all the same (current) height level? 16:19:56 <Lakie> I say currently to prevent say a HQ dropping down a whole height level because each new tile would be the same new height. 16:20:18 <Lakie> each tiles' new height level would be the same* 16:21:23 <Rubidium> autoslope won't allow tiles to change height level in OpenTTD 16:21:52 <Lakie> Ok, well due to this small oversight mine could (which is a bug)... 16:22:30 <Lakie> But am I right in thinking the autoslope bit changes wheither it can be altered or not? 16:22:42 <Lakie> And the slopecheck is for callback 157? 16:23:58 <Rubidium> yes, slopecheck during construction of the object 16:24:12 <Rubidium> autoslope during changing slope under the object once it is built 16:24:42 <Rubidium> so during construction call callback 157 16:27:16 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 16:28:18 <Lakie> Ok, I meant for autoslope, dopes it go can I alter (autoslope bit) -> call slope check -> should I call cb157 or just test still flat (slope check bit)? 16:28:23 <Lakie> does* 16:29:16 <Lakie> Never mind, noticed the 15D, although that only allows either allowing or checking. 16:29:33 <Lakie> allowing or denying. 16:30:01 <Lakie> Um, ok. 16:31:07 <Lakie> So I'd check the bit (assuming no as default), call the callback 15D, the follow the usual calc slope and ask grf via 157 or should I just make sure its flat (after adjustments)? 16:33:22 <Lakie> Originally I felt just allowing or denying autoslope too restrictive so decided to allow the grf to check the slope 16:33:27 <Lakie> proposed slope* 16:33:36 <Rubidium> I think you don't understand autoslope 16:33:50 <planetmaker> :-D 16:34:06 <Rubidium> stupid OpenTTD name I guess 16:34:32 <Rubidium> hmm, the name is in the spec 16:34:42 <Lakie> The idea is to allow alteration of the slope without destroying / rebuilding the tile, preferably without affecting the tile height. 16:35:02 <Rubidium> yes, that one 16:35:23 <Rubidium> that isn't related to callback 157 in any way 16:36:31 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 16:36:59 <Lakie> I feel it is, whilst its simple for the majority to just allow or disable, I imagine there will be objects will accept some combinations but nt others, thus allowing all so long as height stays same may not work as intented but I can change it to the usual allow or reject if needed, much simplier 16:38:23 <Rubidium> Lakie: just use the simple method, i.e. keep it the same as industries/houses 16:38:46 <Lakie> Alright. 16:39:37 <Rubidium> as for the landslope check to be ran properly you need to apply the changes first, then if it fails (says no) you need to revert everything 16:39:42 <Rubidium> which isn't that trivial 16:40:36 <Lakie> Well, actually I used to calculate the new slope before changing, downside is that it lead to the obvious issue 16:41:08 <Lakie> That without the tiles becide it, it wasn't possible to completely workout if it was dropping a level 16:41:30 <Lakie> Not from the grf anyway, my code should have checked it though 16:42:59 <Lakie> But going simple is easy enough, saves me quite some code 16:45:24 <Lakie> By the same whim, I assume you'd prefer objects without foundations deny autoslope? 16:47:11 <Rubidium> nope 16:47:38 <Rubidium> autoslope is enabled by default and the NewGRF has to disable it 16:47:46 <Lakie> Alright 16:47:55 <Lakie> Again saves code. 16:50:30 <Lakie> This said, I'd still prefer to deny modification of objects whose grfs are not loaded 16:50:46 <Lakie> modifcation of slopes under objects* 16:50:58 <Rubidium> that sounds reasonable 16:56:33 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-edf0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 17:00:21 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:00:25 <Rubidium> Lakie: in any case, I'd be extremely happy if you implement the real changes first. The real changes being new land slope callback number, callback flag for land slope callback, the xy -> yx swap (or is that just documentation being wrong?), and variable 42 from year -> date 17:01:35 <Lakie> Well, I'm working on it, as for xy/yx I'm unsure if its the doc or code wrong, will check that over, flag for the slope callback is simple enough, as ids changing autoslope 17:01:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:02:15 <Lakie> Not sure about var42 as it involves changing some internal structures so I'm looking over the save/load system to see if I can retreive a game saved with patch version x 17:02:35 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:02:37 <Lakie> (To migrate the structure over nicely) 17:03:06 <Rubidium> Lakie: a temporary solution would be to just get the year and multiply that 17:03:40 <Lakie> That was my thought, however ideally it should store the date anyway, so it still needs reworking. :) 17:05:56 <Rubidium> any problems with the proposed specs as written down? 17:06:23 <Lakie> Not really, I thik most of it is either cloning or reusing code from other places 17:06:46 <Lakie> 'cept maybe the towns but thats probably cloning too 17:07:06 <Rubidium> yup, it's mostly (copied) from industry(tiles) 17:07:33 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:11:33 <Lakie> I'll probably need to hook towns deletion so it deletes any objects built in the scenerio editor. 17:12:07 <Lakie> I don't think towns can be removed during a game so probably need not write mirgration code? 17:12:28 <Rubidium> yup, town's can't be removed during a running game 17:13:38 <Lakie> Although can't one open a game in the scenerio editor, so I guess I will have to after all. :/ 17:13:51 <Lakie> Least there be objects disappearing (or a crash) 17:14:03 <Rubidium> Lakie: he can, but then removing a town should remove it's industries, stations and such as well 17:14:18 <Lakie> stations? 17:14:27 <Lakie> Removing a town removes the players stations? 17:14:43 <Lakie> In which case I suppose its valid to remove objects. 17:15:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 17:15:05 <Rubidium> hmm, no in OpenTTD it doesn't. It just disallows removal of the town until there are no depots/stations associated with that town anymore 17:15:21 <Rubidium> though that code might be a fairly recent addition 17:15:44 <Lakie> Ah ok, so I'd check for that also (probably added and just needs appending too, hopefully) 17:15:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:16:33 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:17:21 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-56-22.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:17:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 17:17:57 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:18:24 <Lakie> Ah, um, ok, well since I can't get the data of which game version saved it (or so it seems), I suppose the best option is to swap some variables around. 17:18:45 <Lakie> Downside is the this to a foobar date 17:20:05 <Lakie> (For objects built prechanges) 17:20:34 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:21:14 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:22:50 <Rubidium> you could loop over the map after loading and do: if (date == 0) date = year * 365; 17:23:29 <Lakie> True, I don't really even need to do it on the map, only the object pool 17:24:17 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:26:52 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.12.51] has joined #openttd 17:29:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20647 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: update some of the object spec information 17:31:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20648 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: implement the NewGRF override manager for objects 17:32:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-255-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 17:32:42 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20649 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: implement classes for objects 17:34:41 <planetmaker> hehe. Nice 17:35:08 <planetmaker> So additionally to a map covered with coal mine transportation wheel industries we'll it have covered in the other part with transmitters :-) 17:35:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20650 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_object.h table/object_land.h): -Codechange: add some variables to the object's spec 17:36:41 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20651 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_object.cpp newgrf_object.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: add a function to determine whether an object is available and use it 17:37:49 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-23-216.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:38:20 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20652 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_object.cpp newgrf_object.h): -Codechange: implement a function to get the index of a spec. 17:40:28 <TrueBrain> too many commits 17:40:30 <TrueBrain> can't process 17:40:38 <TrueBrain> need to shutdown 17:40:40 <TrueBrain> *biep* 17:40:54 <TrueBrain> I see my favorite stalker returned 17:41:02 * planetmaker presses 'reboot' 17:41:09 <planetmaker> hello TrueBrain :-) 17:41:12 <TrueBrain> hi planetmaker :) 17:41:28 <TrueBrain> I agree with the assement of dihedral, it gives the feeling of a stalker 17:41:54 <TrueBrain> I also wonder what is not understood about the 'unsupported' part of an 'unsupported patch' 17:41:55 <TrueBrain> :D 17:41:56 <planetmaker> a bit 17:42:19 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: obviously the "un" part 17:42:26 <planetmaker> :-) Well... YOU have written it. So the impossible has to be possible, hasn't it? :-P 17:42:42 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: of course 5000 revisions later it should still work flawless :) 17:42:48 <TrueBrain> just poorly programmed I guess :) 17:42:49 <planetmaker> Of course. 17:42:54 <DorpsGek> Is keeping track of everyone's last presence considered stalking ? 17:43:10 <planetmaker> :-) 17:43:15 <TrueBrain> DorpsGek: yes 17:43:24 <planetmaker> presence != talking ;-) 17:43:27 <TrueBrain> then again, you are known to be a big stalker 17:43:29 <TrueBrain> and my pet 17:44:24 <TrueBrain> but okay, without joking, was there any outstanding question regarding this dude? 17:44:33 <Rubidium> talking about your pet... what do you think of the fact that Duke University, RIPE NCC and Cisco conspired and blocked his internet access yesterday morning? 17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r20653 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs): 17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 23 changes by ww9980 17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 2 changes by ww9980 17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: esperanto - 6 changes by Christopher 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: icelandic - 108 changes by grjonib 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 6 changes by angelix 17:45:48 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, I made a BGP bounce request 17:45:51 <TrueBrain> was relative easy 17:46:24 <TrueBrain> rerouted his IP subnet over some transit lines via BGP rerouting, which caused a failure on the transit connection of his provider, putting it off for a few hours 17:46:28 <Rubidium> heh, maybe VirtualBox is/was doing something similar to that as well 17:46:28 <TrueBrain> easy if you know what you are doing 17:47:13 <TrueBrain> either way, I only see a 20 minute blackout? 17:48:08 <Rubidium> yes, still... 17:48:17 <TrueBrain> the whole server was unreachable? 17:48:24 <TrueBrain> or only to a selective places? 17:48:26 <planetmaker> ipv4 yes 17:48:36 <TrueBrain> ipv6 still worked? 17:48:39 <Rubidium> over IPv6 it was reachable, otherwise it wasn't 17:48:49 <planetmaker> ams-ix was missing 100GBit bandwidth at that time ;-) 17:48:52 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: also for you, it was unreachable? 17:49:01 <Rubidium> yes, except over IPv6 17:49:13 *** BlackTow3x [~krotouyy@41.249.103.22] has joined #openttd 17:49:18 <planetmaker> s/bandwidth/traffic/ 17:49:26 <Rubidium> http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg11505.html <- RIPE NCC + Duke University were experimenting with huge BGP updates 17:49:35 <TrueBrain> core routers lost their BGP :D 17:50:04 <Rubidium> because Cisco routers messed it up -> http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/products_security_advisory09186a0080b4411f.shtml 17:50:08 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.124.21] has joined #openttd 17:50:41 <Rubidium> basically Cisco routers corrupted the valid (experimental) BGP updates 17:50:47 <TrueBrain> funny enough my (ISP) AS kept running .. 17:50:54 <TrueBrain> then again, we run Foundary 17:51:44 <TrueBrain> shows once again how vulnarable the BGP protocol is 17:51:55 <TrueBrain> and the way we create the BGP network (automated) 17:52:58 <TrueBrain> funny on the other hand is how fast diagnostic is done and reported on ;) 17:53:37 <planetmaker> I guess loosing 1/6 of the Dutch traffic is enough incentive ;-) 17:53:45 <TrueBrain> but okay, that it is Cisco only is the reason I didn't see it pass my desk yet :) 17:54:07 <planetmaker> it even showed in cix-de, but not that much 17:54:09 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: well, also, if no diagnostic is done, that AS will be disconnected from all other ASes instantly :) 17:54:18 <planetmaker> :-) 17:54:33 <TrueBrain> so it is pretty critical for the AS causing the problem to get out ASAP that it was not his fault :) 17:55:00 <TrueBrain> as losing your (transit) connectivity is not something anyone would enjoy :) 17:55:02 <Rubidium> the probem here is that the corruption propagates 17:55:11 <planetmaker> yeah 17:55:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, only one level. Then the session is reset 17:55:26 <TrueBrain> otherwise you would have seen a world-wide outage :) 17:55:46 <Rubidium> enough Cisco routers that bombed out :) 17:56:00 <TrueBrain> also shows tha tmost of the core routers are NOT cisco :D 17:56:02 <TrueBrain> for good reason 17:56:10 <TrueBrain> be sane, use Foundary or similar :) 17:56:43 <TrueBrain> Foundry 17:56:44 <TrueBrain> sigh 17:56:47 <TrueBrain> how often can you mistype :( 17:57:22 <planetmaker> that explains why only a little dip is seen in de... a lot of traffic to Northern America routes over Amsterdam. 17:57:27 <TrueBrain> back to my stalker: was there any topic I should read, or should I just not bother? 17:57:33 * Lakie starts copy/pasting code from newindustries... 17:57:56 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, I guess what you prefer ;-) 17:58:10 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no, I ask you guys; I really REALYL do not feel like opening the forums 17:58:20 <TrueBrain> so if you say: nothing you can help with, I leave it :) 18:00:56 <planetmaker> IIRC Yexo tried it, too and there was something he didn't yet figure out - but which you would maybe know 18:02:03 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you time will be better spent on WT3 / the website bugs 18:05:27 <TrueBrain> roger 18:05:29 <TrueBrain> tnx both :) 18:12:46 <Lakie> Rubidium: I think it's the documentatoin wrong over yx, since the code appears to do yx (y = 0x100, x = 0x1) 18:13:14 <Rubidium> good 18:14:02 <Rubidium> spec's updated 18:16:11 <Lakie> I assume just returning date in var42 18:18:30 *** BlackTow3x [~krotouyy@41.249.103.22] has left #openttd [] 18:21:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20654 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_commons.cpp): -Codechange: implement reading action0 of objects 18:22:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20655 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_object.h): -Codechange: implement reading the action3 of objects 18:23:26 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20656 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: implement counting of objects 18:24:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20657 /trunk/src/sprite.h: -Codechange: add function to draw NewGRF tileseq in the GUI 18:28:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20658 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add the colour of an object to the object instance 18:34:11 *** [hta]specx [~opera@ip94-126-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:22 <andythenorth> evening 18:37:54 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@82.95.127.26] has joined #openttd 18:38:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20659 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature: make the (flat) area around an industry configurable (Eddi|zuHause) 18:38:56 <andythenorth> ooh 18:39:07 * andythenorth wonders what that does :o 18:39:23 <Lakie> Rubidium: For sell factor do I assume like buy factor that if left 0, its unset? 18:39:32 <Lakie> Or would you prefer as 0xFF? 18:40:23 <Rubidium> yes, same behaviour as the buy factor 18:40:33 <Lakie> Okies 18:40:36 <Rubidium> *except* that if the buy factor is set, the sell factor is set to the same value 18:40:44 <Wolf01> uhm, I've been away for some time, any new? 18:40:49 <Lakie> I asked since some of the animation properties have default values 18:40:53 <planetmaker> nothing new ;-) 18:41:08 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.12.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:15 <Lakie> Yeah, well the fallback is to use the buy factor (*.2) 18:41:47 <Rubidium> okay, that's fine as well 18:42:00 <Rubidium> and if less than 5 it becomes 0? 18:42:15 <Lakie> minimum of 1? 18:42:25 <planetmaker> why not allow 0? 18:42:33 <Lakie> I imagine you'd mul by cost then by .2 18:43:34 <Lakie> well, something like (buyfactor*basecost.objects)/5 18:43:47 <Rubidium> ah, okay. Makes sense as well 18:43:59 <Lakie> To avoid errors of below a 5th 18:44:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:16 <VVG> after giving some thought about making date cheat compatible with virtual time, i came to conclusion, it's easir to implement daylength patch where day is 24h virtual time long and vsecs_per_tick is configurable with a loong range :) 18:44:34 <VVG> which is out of my league :( 18:45:05 <SpComb> daylength patches sell like hotcakes 18:45:14 * SpComb considers charging for windows builds 18:45:23 <Lakie> Heh 18:46:57 <VVG> looks like they are too hot to make it into trunk for now 18:48:50 <SpComb> toss it in and see what happens? 18:48:59 <SpComb> (re to trunk) 18:49:00 <Zuu> hmm, I seem to lack motivation to do AI coding tonight. Oh well, I only promised to eventually take a look at the bug in CluelessPlus. :-p 18:49:14 <SpComb> play CoD4:MW instead 18:49:21 <andythenorth> great :P 18:49:31 <andythenorth> another fricking industry setting 18:49:47 <andythenorth> another combination to test 18:49:48 <OwenS> SpComb: CoD4:MW? Soo oldschool :p 18:49:53 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20660 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: implement (most) of action2 support for objects 18:50:01 <Terkhen> andythenorth: related to removing water? 18:50:03 <SpComb> hardly, very nuskool 18:50:13 <OwenS> SpComb: That would be MW2 '_ 18:50:18 <glx> OwenS: but more recent can't do local network 18:50:42 <andythenorth> Terkhen: nah, it controls the industry platform 18:50:43 <OwenS> glx: I presume this is a limitation of the PC version only? :p 18:50:46 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20661 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: implement the "decide colour" callback for objects 18:50:59 <SpComb> well who plays FPSs on consoles 18:51:07 <OwenS> SpComb: Most people :p 18:51:10 <SpComb> next please 18:51:27 <OwenS> Some of us got tired of nursing Windows installs to play games :p 18:51:33 <glx> FPS without keyboard+mouse is weird 18:51:34 <andythenorth> providing reliable industry map generation across the many possible combinations of settings is already difficult 18:51:41 <andythenorth> now it's approximately impossible 18:51:45 <andythenorth> so I'm going to stop trying :P 18:51:50 <Terkhen> :) 18:51:56 <planetmaker> hehe 18:51:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20662 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: implement object animation 18:52:11 <andythenorth> you can laugh, but I have to waste my weekends testing :P 18:52:24 <Terkhen> it's a detail that can be sorted out once everything else is working already 18:52:34 * Terkhen would never play an FPS without a mouse 18:53:03 * Rubidium wonders when the last time was he played a FPS 18:53:28 <andythenorth> so there are now 10 settings that all affect industry placement, plus map size 18:53:28 <Zuu> FPS is overrated :-p 18:53:29 <Rubidium> I *think* it was playing "tag" with "Unreal Tournament" 18:53:29 <OwenS> The only FPSes I play on PC these days are made by Valve... 18:53:35 <andythenorth> @calc 10! 18:53:35 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1) 18:53:40 <OwenS> OK, and perhaps occasionally ID 18:53:58 <SpComb> UT is arcade 18:54:09 <SpComb> you just hold down space and run around 18:54:13 <Terkhen> andythenorth: there's no common solution for all settings 18:54:14 <Terkhen> ? 18:54:23 <andythenorth> what's the number of combinations from 10 independent variables? 18:54:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20663 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: add the GRF name to the tile info window 18:54:27 <OwenS> SpComb: And rocketjump ^^ 18:54:43 <Lakie> Rubidium: Whats the default for "objectheight", 0? 18:54:43 <Rubidium> SpComb: it wasn't when I played it :) 18:54:58 <planetmaker> @calc factorial(10) 18:54:58 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'factorial' is not a defined function. 18:55:04 <planetmaker> @calc factor(10) 18:55:04 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Error: 'factor' is not a defined function. 18:55:07 <planetmaker> hm 18:55:18 <OwenS> bc's built in function list is lame 18:55:29 <Terkhen> 3'6288e6 18:55:32 <andythenorth> @calc 3628800 * 3 18:55:32 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 10886400 18:55:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20664 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: implement the land slope callback for objects 18:55:39 <andythenorth> how many map size combinations are there? 18:55:48 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:19 <planetmaker> @calc 2**4 * 2**4 18:56:19 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 256 18:56:22 <andythenorth> @calc 10886400 * 256 18:56:22 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2786918400 18:56:24 <Rubidium> 6*6? 18:56:29 <andythenorth> I thought 36 18:56:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20665 /trunk/src/ (object_cmd.cpp table/object_land.h): -Codechange: make clearing object tiles behave (more) like TTDPatch 18:56:39 <andythenorth> @calc 10886400 * 36 18:56:39 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 391910400 18:56:48 <andythenorth> and there are 3 climates with different placement rules 18:56:57 <andythenorth> @calc 391910400*3 18:56:57 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1175731200 18:57:05 <andythenorth> I'm ignoring random seed :P 18:57:12 <Terkhen> then the only option is to find a method that work for all settings 18:57:30 <andythenorth> So I need to test 1.1bn combinations? 18:57:35 <andythenorth> I need more than a weekend :P 18:57:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20666 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: enable drawing of (NewGRF) objects 18:57:58 <Rubidium> oh... in that case 18:58:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: you didn't include devs messing with the industry code :) 18:58:10 <andythenorth> or the fact that some of the industry code is weird 18:58:18 <andythenorth> we found some stuff before that was just...broken 18:58:26 *** DDR_ [~DDR@66.183.124.21] has joined #openttd 18:59:07 <andythenorth> oh well 18:59:13 <Rubidium> @calc (2**32-1)*6*6*2*4*4*4*6*(2**4) 18:59:14 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 1899956092354560 18:59:18 <andythenorth> maybe I can crowdsource the testing :P 18:59:35 <Rubidium> and that's without industries, towns or trees 18:59:57 <Rubidium> and without checking for duplicates 19:00:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20667 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_callbacks.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: implement the autoslope callback for objects 19:00:51 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.124.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:52 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 19:02:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20668 /trunk/src/ (object_cmd.cpp station_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: add (more) support for bridges over objects 19:03:02 <Wolf01> add stations too, you are already touching it... 19:04:04 <Rubidium> not sure whether that goes bit wise 19:04:56 <frosch123> they are free 19:05:36 <frosch123> they are even free for industries :o 19:06:02 <frosch123> ouch, i suppose that is another issue with the fields ... likely they are not bridgeable :p 19:06:16 <andythenorth> brrrr :( 19:06:19 <Rubidium> they should be! 19:06:28 <Lakie> Rubidium: property 13, bit 2, is that the tile proc of the northen tile by any chance? 19:06:30 <frosch123> well, the bits are free :) 19:06:43 <Rubidium> sorry, they are 19:06:49 <Wolf01> why not? fields existed from the beginning® 19:07:00 <planetmaker> Wolf01, not those ;-) 19:07:05 <planetmaker> NewFields ;-) 19:07:14 <Rubidium> Lakie: that answer was not meant for you, but for frosch 19:07:14 <Wolf01> oh, newfields... interesting 19:07:34 <Lakie> I gathered that... 19:08:13 <Rubidium> Lakie: nope, it isn't. Don't know what the cycle length of that is 19:08:24 <frosch123> tileloop is 256 ticks 19:08:38 <Rubidium> then we could (still) make it that way 19:08:55 <Rubidium> is that (way) easier for you? 19:09:04 <frosch123> for some reason some objects are processed every 250 ticks, some every 256 ticks 19:09:33 <Lakie> Odd, well if they are already processed somewhere at 250 ticks I can work it so 19:09:35 <Rubidium> Lakie: then trigger 1 first, after that trigger 2? 19:09:44 <frosch123> hmm, s/objects/things/, "objects" might be a bad term here :) 19:09:50 <Rubidium> Lakie: I've added code to trigger it every 250 ticks 19:09:52 <Lakie> Its just if not I'd have to go find somewhere to patch 19:10:01 <Rubidium> so, the tileloop it is 19:10:19 <Wolf01> use "stuff" and you are always right 19:10:38 <Lakie> Ok. 19:10:44 <frosch123> stations are processed every 250 ticks, industries every 256, so everything is different :) 19:10:46 * Lakie looks up how these triggers work 19:10:47 <planetmaker> frosch123, just change it all to 256 ;-) 19:11:30 <Lakie> Heh 19:13:23 *** DDR_ [~DDR@66.183.124.21] has joined #openttd 19:13:35 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20669 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp newgrf_animation_type.h object_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: trigger the whole object every 256 ticks instead of every 250 ticks 19:18:51 *** DDR [~DDR@66.183.124.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:51 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 19:24:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:38:37 <Lakie> Rubidium: with your implmentation do you have animation stored on a per tile basis or the whole industry? 19:39:20 <Rubidium> per tile 19:39:54 <Rubidium> you mean whether a tile is animated or not, right? 19:40:09 <Lakie> I meant the animation counter? 19:40:27 <Rubidium> yes, that's per tile 19:40:31 <Lakie> The tile being animated or not would be from that wierd little function handler? 19:41:03 <Rubidium> I store 8 bits (like industry tiles) on the map 19:41:18 <Rubidium> with some var60+x you can get the animation state of other tiles as well 19:41:40 <Lakie> Hmm... ok, might need to change a few things... 19:41:41 <Rubidium> the tile being animated uses the same stuff as industries as well 19:42:21 <Lakie> Mainly the yx stuff which shouldn't be too bad (I hope) 19:42:25 * Rubidium based that from http://pics.lakie.net/newObjectPlan.png 19:43:04 <Lakie> Ended up as http://pics.lakie.net/newObject-Storage.png 19:43:20 <Rubidium> hmm 19:43:30 <Lakie> This said, I'm dropping cached flags 19:43:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20670 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs): 19:43:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: support for action F 19:43:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add: a window to select (NewGRF) objects 19:44:04 <Lakie> Depending on where landscape 2 is used, I can probaby reuse that for per tile animation 19:44:30 <frosch123> \o/ town names :p 19:44:36 <planetmaker> actionF? 19:44:48 <Rubidium> hmm... too late already? 19:45:07 <Lakie> Na, only var42 using it 19:45:10 <Rubidium> feature F... 19:45:11 <Lakie> Easily changed... 19:45:29 <Lakie> Hehe 19:46:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20671 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: feature F (not action F as written mistakenly in the previous message) support for the scenario editor 19:46:23 <planetmaker> :-) 19:46:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20672 /trunk/src/lang/ (50 files in 2 dirs): -Remove: some stale strings 19:46:53 *** wollollo [~martin@host86-175-29-209.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 19:47:45 <Lakie> I suppose its more convient per tile, less overheads. 19:48:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20673 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add support for inspecting objects 19:49:15 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 20:02:36 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:06:12 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:06:49 *** welshdragon [~dragon@millsie.net] has joined #openttd 20:15:59 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r20674 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove declared functions that do not exist (anymore) otherwise. 20:18:30 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.12.51] has joined #openttd 20:22:50 <Lakie> Rubidium: I notice the newhouses / industries code has sound in its retun, should I also support that or just ommit it? 20:23:37 <Rubidium> retun? 20:24:06 <Lakie> in the callback return 20:24:24 <dihedral> Interesting commits there rubidium 20:24:33 <Rubidium> Lakie: OpenTTD does the sound stuff for objects as well 20:24:40 <Lakie> Ok 20:24:49 <Lakie> So carbon copy bar the storage location 20:24:49 <Rubidium> just as the animation code is generic 20:24:50 <Lakie> :) 20:25:18 <Rubidium> actually OpenTTD stores the animation frame/stage/state in the same location as well :) 20:25:20 <Lakie> It could easily be generic here, but meh, someone didn't bother with it 20:25:28 <Lakie> Heh 20:25:30 <Lakie> Convient 20:25:43 <Rubidium> Lakie: neither did anyone in OpenTTD, until I removed the duplication a few days ago 20:25:52 <Lakie> Ah 20:26:08 <Rubidium> Lakie: that's the benefit of our map format. If it suits us we can reorder stuff (unification!) 20:26:27 <Lakie> Yes... 20:26:40 <Lakie> Well, its easier to do that in c++ than asm. :( 20:49:21 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 20:58:57 *** Zuu [Zuu@c-edf0e655.510-8-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:37 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 21:08:56 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@82.95.127.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:14:53 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:19:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9875.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:20 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 21:25:27 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-140-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:18 <frosch123> isn't it amazing that a year has exactly as many months as there are bits in 3 nibbles? 21:33:02 <SpComb> unless it's a year with a leap-month 21:33:27 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Quit: fmauneko] 21:35:15 <frosch123> ottd should support the Iranian Calendar 21:35:37 <VVG> what about chinese or mayan? 21:35:54 <SpComb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_month#Lunar_calendars 21:35:57 <frosch123> hmm, and russian 21:36:06 <SpComb> gotta drop your western mindset 21:36:07 <VVG> eh? 21:36:58 <VVG> what about russian calendar? 21:37:31 <VVG> what's that* 21:37:51 <SpComb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_calendar 21:37:56 <SpComb> perhaps 21:38:01 <frosch123> VVG: gregorian 21:39:07 <frosch123> hmm or julian, 21:39:19 <frosch123> anyway, that calender with the october revolution 21:39:34 * frosch123 hopes he did not mess everything up 21:40:43 *** ShawnR [~Boes@h75-100-77-252.cyrlok.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:22 <ShawnR> Question, is there anyway to drag things like the sign list or map outside of the openttd window? 21:41:33 <frosch123> no 21:41:36 <VVG> that's a thing of the past! 21:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's the julian calendar. in the gregorian calender, the october revolution is in november 21:42:10 <VVG> i have to admit i had no idea there was so much involved into calnder :( 21:42:21 <ShawnR> well, i'm runing dual monitors and i wanted to actully beable to use both monitors while playing. Thanks 21:42:40 <Alberth> make a multi-monitor openttd window 21:42:46 <Wolf01> what about this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar 21:42:59 <SpComb> 10 day week 21:43:07 <SpComb> with every other day off? 21:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the gregorian calendar is synchronized to the julian calendar at around 300 A.D. 21:43:34 <Alberth> better 5 days work, 5 days free :) 21:43:42 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:44:18 <frosch123> SpComb: i prefer xkcd's 28-hour days 21:44:25 <Wolf01> :D 21:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we need a metric week ;) 21:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in metropolis (movie, 1927) they had a metric clock that showed 10 hours 21:45:56 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20675 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Add [FS#4077]: method to access the (action 14) NewGRF version of other NewGRFs 21:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> man... i spent the evening in a "Bierzelt", and now i have hundreds of crazy tunes in my head... 21:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> why does a copying process over a 100MBit network take only 4MiB/s? 21:48:59 <Rubidium> encryption limits speed? 21:49:17 <Rubidium> you're using SMB that floods with a ginormous amount on UDP packets? 21:49:22 <Terkhen> good night 21:49:24 <VVG> i think i got confused here 21:49:25 <Wolf01> I'll invent a DEG clock where ours are based on the Hearth's rotation... uhm.. maybe I've already seen it in the Flinstones 21:49:32 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 21:49:33 <Wolf01> *hours 21:49:39 <Wolf01> night Terkhen 21:49:42 <VVG> it's still a gregorian calender, that was in use before WW2 in USSR 21:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm using SMB, yes. not sure what it actually does on the physical network 21:53:01 <planetmaker> juhu :-) 21:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of commits today... 21:57:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:01:20 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl54029E14.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 22:01:34 <VVG> it seems i can't just give up the idea of using vsec_per_tick as a base for daylenght patch, it just keeps popping up in my head :( 22:02:26 <SpComb> ticks per day, days per tick 22:02:27 <SpComb> same thing 22:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: i don't think that's any kind of good approach 22:02:52 <SpComb> or is time and day freerunning? 22:03:10 <SpComb> ie. not tied to eachother 22:03:32 <VVG> premise is, day is 24h long, 84600 seconds. one tick is customizable amout of seconds, from 1 up to 100 may be 22:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the only purpose of virtual time is synchronising timetables 22:03:51 <Wolf01> and to play longer 22:04:03 <VVG> they "break" with current implementation when using date cheat :( 22:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: no, that's not virtual time 22:04:20 <b_jonas> play longer? you can play forever 22:04:29 <SpComb> b_jonas: play slower 22:04:36 <Wolf01> I didn't mean that 22:04:59 <b_jonas> do you mean get the years pass longer so you have to wait more for new technology? 22:05:07 <Wolf01> yes 22:05:16 <b_jonas> I see 22:05:39 <b_jonas> instead of changing time, can't you just change the dates in the grf for that? 22:05:50 <Wolf01> I like to play at full speed and see my vehicles and trains riding fast, but years pass fast too 22:06:15 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Quit: Good bye] 22:07:42 <VVG> not a good idea then? 22:08:12 <Wolf01> elrail introduction: year 2355 22:08:22 <Wolf01> maglev at 13677 22:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: not for impkementation, no 22:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> s/k/l/ 22:10:01 <VVG> some other solution needed then to keep the timetables set with virtual time in sync when using date cheat then :( 22:10:02 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 22:10:53 <Wolf01> datediff 22:11:19 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: doesn't that only need setting the start date upon switching the year? 22:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i never used the date cheat, how does that work in trunk anyway? 22:12:23 <VVG> the actual arrival/departure times shown change when date cheating 22:12:41 <VVG> call setdate with new parameters 22:12:45 <VVG> calls* 22:13:06 <Wolf01> run 2 dates, date A which is tied to the gui, the grf introduction dates etc, date B starts from 0 and not changeable, tied with timetables and other date-breakable functions 22:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: yes, the arrival times change 22:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: you als also check the max-year-loop 22:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> *you also need* 22:14:12 <Wolf01> it's just to add another date variable, initialise it at the beginning of the game and save it to the savegame 22:14:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: but that variable can overflow 22:15:04 <VVG> why check max_year? 22:15:26 <Wolf01> not if both are initialised at the same value instead of 0 22:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: at the end of max_year, the date is set back to beginning of max_year 22:16:27 <VVG> i doubt there are many people playing till year 5000000 22:16:48 <Wolf01> VVG, I might start a game in year 499999 22:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: don't doubt. prove. 22:16:59 <Wolf01> *+9 22:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: some crazy person might want to make the loop-year configurable 22:17:57 <VVG> prove what? atm playing at year 500000 should break virtual time, since it's _date*DAY_TICKS that virtual time is based on 22:18:11 <Wolf01> ram based date variable, more the ram you have, more you can play 22:19:21 <Wolf01> ok, I think I'm tired enough today... 22:19:26 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i mean someone might want to set the loop year to 2030 or something 22:19:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host176-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:50 <VVG> is that configurable in config? 22:20:07 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: no, currently only in the code 22:20:16 <VVG> i don't see a need then 22:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> VVG: the point is, it's possible, so your patch needs to handle it 22:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a loop year even in trunk 22:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> even if it is "unlikely" that someone reaches it 22:21:38 <Eddi|zuHause> someone at intel also calculated that it is "unlikely" that people hit the pentium bug... 22:22:08 <planetmaker> 640k RAM should be enough for all 22:22:32 <planetmaker> and this programme won't be used anymore in year 2k ;-) 22:22:38 <VVG> original patch didn't consider it, so i didn't too. Even though that logic is flawed, there is anothor argument here that stops me from considering such a case - i have no idea how to handle it :) 22:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the pentium bug was giving incorrect results in certain float-divisions 22:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but the calculation by that intel guy was based on a flawed distribution of float numbers 22:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> someone else did the calculation with another distribution, and came to a much higher chance 22:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> which then caused intel to withdraw the product 22:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and call back the already sold units 22:24:57 <Rubidium> Lakie: I'm removing varact64 (seems that 65 does the same), to 65 becomes 64 now 22:25:14 <Lakie> Cool 22:25:26 <Lakie> Currently working throiugh animation and triggers. 22:25:54 <VVG> well, back to original ida of mine, loop year thingie can be done combining day lentgh and virtual time, making a day 24h long. Loop year breaking current implementaion of virtual problem solved :) 22:26:04 <Lakie> For the tile proc, should I call the global followed by the tile one for the north tile? 22:26:12 <Lakie> Or the other way round? 22:26:35 <Lakie> s/global/whole object 22:26:38 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20676 /trunk/src/newgrf_object.cpp: -Codechange: it's not needed to supply two almost identical vars 22:27:09 <Rubidium> Lakie: The synchronised periodic tile loop is called directly after the (unsynchronised) periodic tile loop of the northern tile. 22:27:24 <Rubidium> i.e. the "global" after the "tile" one 22:27:31 <Lakie> Ah, ok, I had it in the reverse order. 22:28:34 <Eddi|zuHause> # Schnapps, das war sein letztes Wort 22:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> # Dann trugen ihn die Engel fort 22:28:50 <Rubidium> Schnappi? 22:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (*please get it out of my head*) 22:29:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: luckily, that song is long forgotten ;) 22:30:09 <Rubidium> really? 22:30:19 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tlubrasgw1-fe86de00-246.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:30:26 <Rubidium> why do I remember it then? 22:32:13 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8A05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "Das Jodeln wurde von Japanern erfunden" 22:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> "Eine Gruppe Japaner wanderte durch die Alpen, als ihnen das Radio den Abhang hinuntergefallen ist." 22:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Da riefen sie einem Wanderer weiter unten zu:" 22:34:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "Hol du die Ladio?" 22:36:55 <Rubidium> -ENOENGLISH 22:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's ok, as long as it's in quotes ;) 22:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's really not translatable 22:38:44 <planetmaker> indeed... but... "long forgotten" and a quote here... that's rather an oxymoron 22:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: -ENOPARSE 22:41:20 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl54029E14.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:41:26 <planetmaker> you quote a long-forgotten song. That is an oxymoron. Obviously 22:41:36 <planetmaker> a contradiction in itself 22:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, i said the one mentioned by Rubidium is long forgotten 22:42:55 <planetmaker> even then ;-) If you didn't recall, you couldn't state that it is forgotten ;-) 22:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, technically, it's a 50/50 chance between "forgotten" and "never existed" ;) 22:45:44 <planetmaker> how do you determine such probability? 22:46:03 <planetmaker> (these hairs certainly can be cut even WAY more :-P) 22:46:12 <planetmaker> s/cut/split/ 22:46:16 <Eddi|zuHause> assuming a flawed distribution ;) 22:46:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: next time please drink so much that you cannot type anymore 22:46:36 <planetmaker> lol 22:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's difficult, because i always have a ~20km drive home... 22:47:21 <frosch123> agreed, then "cannot type anymore" might be a bit rude 22:47:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but my keyboard doesn't type well anymore 22:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i think either the batteries are going empty, or my USB port finally gives up... 22:49:13 <VVG> a combination of both? 22:51:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-255-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why do dolphin, kio_file and kio_smb use 33% CPU each? 22:54:53 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.30.207] has joined #openttd 22:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that could explain the funky responsiveness that the keyboard gives me... 22:56:21 <Lakie> Rubidium: I don't suppose you'll go for the behaviour of just using the old object animation behaviour if objectanimframes is -1, which was inc aimation every 4 ticks of the animcounter? 22:56:26 *** Biolunar [Mahdi@blfd-4db18674.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 22:58:42 <planetmaker> Lakie: is there a newgrf which uses it? 22:58:52 <Lakie> Most of the old spec ones 22:59:35 <planetmaker> hm. And there's presumably another method to the same end now, right? 22:59:43 <Lakie> Yup 23:00:08 <planetmaker> hm. seems redundant 23:00:21 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:34 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.12.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:43 <Lakie> True, though one can set the flag for animated and leaved animed frames -1 23:00:44 <planetmaker> I'm missing oversight how many or big those existing newgrf are 23:00:56 <Lakie> Probably not that big 23:01:10 <Lakie> The spec was only starting to be adopted (after 2 years of nothing) 23:01:11 <planetmaker> in which case I'd skip a legacy setting 23:01:38 <planetmaker> he, that's a big latency time 23:02:51 <Rubidium> Lakie: yep, though actually once every tick unless the NewGRF changes that 23:03:06 <Rubidium> (default of 0 is easier than default of 2) 23:03:25 <Lakie> Hehe 23:03:44 <Lakie> Though I'm not sure test <vl>, 0 would work as planned 23:04:00 <Lakie> I suppose it would always be true though 23:04:06 *** KouDy [~koudy@ip-89-176-216-203.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:48 <Rubidium> Lakie: for stations animation speed's lower limit is 0, so it must be possible 23:05:03 <Lakie> True 23:05:14 <Lakie> Was mainly working through industries 23:05:44 <Lakie> Looks like it should work as intented 23:09:36 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:13 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.88.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:20:52 <frosch123> http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control <- for those interested, though andy is already at sleep 23:27:05 <Rubidium> frosch123: growth speed should ofcourse be PGP signed :) 23:27:08 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.88.193] has joined #openttd 23:27:16 <planetmaker> :-P 23:27:29 <planetmaker> there we are back at the black boxes 23:27:42 <planetmaker> only play-able with OpenGFX < 0.2 23:28:10 <Rubidium> what did you break? 23:28:11 <frosch123> hmm, periodical callback to send email? 23:28:48 <Rubidium> no, just PGP signing the town growth so we know it's genuine 23:29:45 <planetmaker> Rubidium: nothing. But town growth is not for people < 18 23:30:03 * planetmaker hides 23:30:07 <frosch123> good point, access to storage of other grf should need a password 23:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i'm not entirely sure what happened now... the copying is over, but now i have 90% "wa" cycles 23:39:02 <Rubidium> flushing? 23:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: for more than 10 minutes? 23:39:55 <Rubidium> apparantly 23:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i closed all dolphins, but when i read iotop correctly, two dolphin instances are swapping like hell 23:42:22 <Rubidium> kill it with 9 23:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i now killed everything in "ps aux | grep dolphin", now swap dropped from 1.5GB to 700MB 23:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> and io now seems back to mormal levels 23:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> *normal 23:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> while at it, what's an nscd? 23:45:54 <Rubidium> name service cache daemon 23:46:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... a name service cache demon 23:46:44 <Rubidium> though it doesn't seem that useful for a home computer 23:46:55 <Rubidium> caching passwd and groups 23:47:05 <Rubidium> (and host lookups) 23:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i stopped it, and nothing seems to have changed... so i guess i really don't need it 23:53:27 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.10.88.193] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3]