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[~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:05:08 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 06:05:32 <_Terkhen_> good morning 06:14:43 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:18:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:49 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:20:08 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:47 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:25:02 *** Mirc- [el3eed-bac@188.247.73.102] has joined #openttd 06:26:42 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:28:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:31:21 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.232.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:32:12 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72dc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:12 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 06:51:51 <Rubidium> morning _Terkhen_ et al 06:56:34 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 07:07:56 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72dc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:10:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:38 <dihedral> morning :-) 07:18:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:19:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20998 /extra/catcodec/ (Makefile.bundle changelog.txt findversion.sh): [catcodec] -Change: Sync installing options with GRFCodec and NFORenum to make packaging more unified for downstream 07:21:22 <dihedral> Rubidium, not so keen on the "private chat with server" hot key patch, then i take it? :-P 07:21:56 <Rubidium> rather not looked at it (yet) 07:21:58 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r20999 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle.in os/windows/installer/install.nsi): -Change: Add installing options or rather options to not install certain documentation, in a similar way to GRFCodec/catcodec 07:22:23 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:19 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:26:49 <Rubidium> dihedral: the diff isn't properly named, or it's naming misrepresents the patch 07:28:29 <Rubidium> and it fails to apply :( 07:28:32 <dihedral> as i lik it to the admin network, i thought the prefix was rather appropriate ^^ 07:28:33 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21000 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Feature[tte]: chat directly to the server or a bot/admin/irc channel monitoring the server (dihedral) 07:28:58 * dihedral hugs Rubidium 07:29:04 <Rubidium> dihedral: rather ...private_chat_server_hotkey_r20941.1.diff vs --- src/main_gui.cpp (revision 20942) 07:29:23 <Rubidium> there, now you even have a fancy commit rev 07:29:58 <Rubidium> darnit... 07:30:03 <dihedral> :-D 07:30:10 <dihedral> sorry - did not want to steal that from you 07:30:16 <dihedral> i know how much you like those ^^ 07:30:26 <Rubidium> not even reached 250 commits a month for the last 4 months (on average) :( 07:30:53 <Rubidium> @commit 18000 07:30:53 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by translators :: r18000 trunk/src/lang/greek.txt (2009-11-07 18:45:05 UTC) 07:30:54 * dihedral is happy about his second major feature in trunk :-) 07:30:55 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 07:30:56 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: greek - 1 changes by fumantsu 07:32:31 <Rubidium> so 3000 commits in a little less than 1 year, then given that r19k was somewhere early February the winter break seems more productive (or were it the many bugfixes due to the betas?) 07:33:53 <dihedral> how high are the download numbers of betas / rc's compared to nightlies? 07:35:34 <Rubidium> beta1: 37.5k, beta2-4: ~14.5k, rc1-3: ~13k, 1.0.0: 180k. Nightlies: average 217/day 07:36:09 <Rubidium> the post 1.0.0 rcs: ~3.5k 07:40:04 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:40:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:22 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:43:30 <dihedral> personally i'd be of the impression that beta's and rc's would bring back more bug reports 07:44:38 <dihedral> sadly i see no rc or beta version under "Reported Version" in flyspray 07:46:03 *** Joni- [~Joni-@80.220.0.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:47:19 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:47:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.194.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:48 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:55 <Rubidium> dihedral: that's because there are no current betas/RCs 07:53:14 <Rubidium> FS#3651 definitely has a reported version that's an RC 07:53:20 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:53:56 <Rubidium> although I have to agree that flyspray might be a bit dumb when it comes to searching on reported versions 07:54:16 <dihedral> i assumed so :-) but i was not able to see how many tasts were related to rc's :-) 07:54:46 *** Joni_ [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:55:35 <Rubidium> as flyspray has only one option to show (or not show) betas/RCs and I think it'll be good for bug reporter usability when they'll see the 75 versions since 0.4.0 07:56:04 <Rubidium> even then, 1.0.5 is marked as "future" so how can it be a reported version (the really dumb part IMO) 07:56:54 <Rubidium> though, you can see the majority is reported on trunk 07:57:17 <dihedral> they have not brought out a new version in quite a while :-( 07:58:11 <Rubidium> that is definitely true and sad 07:58:25 *** Joni- [~Joni-@dsl-vsabrasgw1-fe00dc00-41.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:58:54 <Rubidium> but then it's not broken enough to bother with the hassle of migrating 08:03:32 <dihedral> that would probably be more work than it's worth 08:03:56 <dihedral> unless of course you by chance find something you really believe will do the job for the next x years 08:04:59 <Rubidium> well, bugzilla is unlikely to die any time soon 08:05:26 <Rubidium> but again, lots of work for migration 08:06:40 <Rubidium> likewise that we have a massive amount of plans for the compile farm and that it's riddled with annoyances 08:06:41 <dihedral> yep 08:06:50 <Rubidium> but again, lots of work for writing something new/better 08:07:27 <dihedral> you may not like the idea, but could a hudson cluster not be used for the compile farm? 08:08:09 <dihedral> esp. if you do a joint work with other projects, such as flightgear, you can share a bunch of resources - e.g. hudson nodes 08:08:47 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2819.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:08:58 <Rubidium> wouldn't that require to "run" all compilers at once? Or at least all virtual machines with compilers? 08:11:07 <dihedral> you have a master, and nodes 08:11:32 <dihedral> the master has the queue for the nodes, and nodes can be ofline, even if the master holds it's queue and a job is waiting 08:11:40 <dihedral> when the node comes online, it will do it's job 08:12:01 <Rubidium> so that's basically what we do 08:12:02 <dihedral> there are plugins to start vm's when a job is enqueued, but they can be configured so that jobs run in a certain order 08:12:26 <Rubidium> except that here "master" starts the VMs directly 08:12:29 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:12:52 <Rubidium> and "node" is the start script we "inject" using VirtualBox shares 08:12:55 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 08:13:14 <dihedral> the downside is, it is java 08:13:15 <dihedral> :-P 08:13:37 <dihedral> however, it's a build / continuous integration system that already exists 08:13:41 <dihedral> has a huge community 08:14:02 <dihedral> and i have already written plugins for it :-P 08:14:48 <Rubidium> oh yes, did I tell our nodes don't have network connection? 08:15:26 <Rubidium> and that (sometimes) when we bring up the network connection of the (virtualbox) nodes the network connection with the internet gets broken? 08:18:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19891.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:24:45 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:30:45 <dihedral> ouch ^^ 08:32:07 <andythenorth> morning 08:32:16 * andythenorth ponders a day of daddy daycare 08:32:21 <dihedral> but then working around the actually issue instead of fixing it sounsd odd to me :-P 08:32:26 <andythenorth> will I code anything, or will it be wee all day? 08:32:42 <dihedral> andythenorth, bladder issues? :-D 08:33:07 <dihedral> refering to "wee all day?" 08:35:44 <andythenorth> his not mine 08:36:06 <andythenorth> wee, food, but most of all...entertainment :P 08:36:20 <andythenorth> watching me move pixels around is not very interesting apparently 08:36:33 <andythenorth> babies are very demanding :P 08:38:23 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:44 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 08:38:53 <dihedral> no kidding ;-) 08:40:13 <dihedral> Rubidium, however, with hudson it would be easier to extend ^^ 08:40:35 <dihedral> i.e. adding a node is quite simple - even for others, and the master server then just distributes the jobs 08:44:11 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:19 *** FloSoft [bouncer@www.siedler25.org] has joined #openttd 08:52:28 *** Moo [d45053cb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:52:43 *** Moo is now known as V453000 08:53:07 *** V453000 [d45053cb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 08:54:07 *** Mirc- [el3eed-bac@188.247.73.102] has quit [autokilled: Spamming. Contact support@oftc.net for further information and assistance. (2010-10-20 08:56:02)] 09:00:31 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:31 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:12 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:06:02 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:08:45 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:40:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7560C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:43:10 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but playing toyland might help :) 09:43:21 <andythenorth> my baby has taste :P 09:46:02 <dihedral> harsh! 09:46:54 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-154-80-238.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:47:04 <dihedral> as openttd is no clone anymore, does it have to remain 'toyland' ? :-P 09:47:37 <Rubidium> yes! :) 09:47:41 <dihedral> ^^ 09:47:56 <Rubidium> it's good to play toyland on MP servers 09:48:06 <Rubidium> as it gets rid of most of the morons 09:48:06 <dihedral> why is that? 09:48:12 <dihedral> LOL 09:48:30 <dihedral> that for sure is true :-P 09:50:53 <_Terkhen_> and most of the other players too? :P 09:51:38 <_Terkhen_> this reminds me... now that andy fixed HEQS I could start another toyland game 09:52:46 <andythenorth> bleargh 09:53:08 <_Terkhen_> :D 09:53:22 <andythenorth> maybe I'll make toyland sprites for HEQS 09:53:26 <andythenorth> flashing boxes :P 09:54:27 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-240.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 09:55:44 <_Terkhen_> toyland HEQS fork! 09:57:16 <xiong> ! 09:58:38 <LordAro> toyland FISH fork! Rainbow coloured boxes! (I remember the beginning) :D 10:00:30 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.14] has joined #openttd 10:00:33 *** enr1x [~kiike@230.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 10:01:21 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-154-80-238.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 10:02:22 <andythenorth> _Terkhen_: instead of forking newgrfs, how about vehicle orders? :P 10:03:31 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 10:04:21 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.233.26] has joined #openttd 10:05:41 <_Terkhen_> I already started the modifications to the refit window, altough I doubt that partial refit orders end up being an option 10:08:54 <andythenorth> I'm not sure partial refit is needed 10:09:01 <andythenorth> I wonder how consists should work though... 10:09:07 <andythenorth> I'm not sure what the design should be for those 10:09:28 * _Terkhen_ does not know either 10:10:16 <andythenorth> maybe we figure it out 10:10:59 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:05 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:12 <andythenorth> _Terkhen_: here's what I figure so far: 10:11:54 <andythenorth> (1) 'consists' are created explicitly by user. They are like a master/slave system. Vehicles slaved to a master consist will try and stay in sync with that consist. 10:12:10 <andythenorth> Vehicles don't have to slave to a master consist, they can just have 'their consist' 10:12:28 <andythenorth> (2) consists should be created by adapting existing depot drag system 10:13:01 <andythenorth> I think consists replace auto-replace, but not sure 10:13:37 <_Terkhen_> what information is stored into a consist? engines and wagons, refit selections for them... anything else? 10:13:48 <andythenorth> those things 10:14:03 <andythenorth> I reckon liveries are left out for various reasons 10:14:19 <andythenorth> mostly due to complexity 10:14:27 <dihedral> _Terkhen_, well you could patch the server to advertise toyland, where in trueth it's not :-D 10:14:27 <_Terkhen_> I don't know much about them anyways 10:14:38 <andythenorth> well they don't exist beyond a wish by users yet :) 10:14:55 <dihedral> that is actually quite a nifty idea - and those who know come back :-D 10:16:02 <_Terkhen_> dihedral: you could do that with a grf too :P 10:16:11 <dihedral> you could? 10:16:18 <dihedral> how would you do that?? 10:16:38 <dihedral> i did not know grf's had that kind of manipulation possibilities 10:16:50 <planetmaker> <Rubidium> it's good to play toyland on MP servers <-- indeed. Lovely game atm on our PublicServer :-) 10:16:58 <planetmaker> hello all also :-) 10:17:03 <dihedral> hey :-) 10:17:18 <xiong> Hello, planetmaker. 10:17:21 <_Terkhen_> a grf that reimplements every industry and vehicle of the temperate climate and replaces all terrain sprites should work unless I'm forgetting something important 10:17:51 <dihedral> i would like to see how people respond when they notice that the server is advertised as toyland 64x64 and actually is temperate 1024x1024 ^^ 10:18:06 <planetmaker> dihedral, did I see that correctly... talking to the server? :-) 10:18:19 <dihedral> yarp :-) 10:18:24 <planetmaker> seet :-) 10:18:33 <dihedral> ctrl+shift+enter or ctrl+shift+t :-) 10:18:44 <_Terkhen_> they would not respond, since they would not even enter that server 10:18:59 <xiong> May I talk a moment about consists? First I want to say that although the existing orders/shared orders/refit system is not perfect, it's okay and far superior to any other simulation I've seen. 10:19:04 <dihedral> _Terkhen_, or would be amused at it's site and wanted to see what it looks like :-P 10:19:11 <_Terkhen_> :) 10:19:20 <dihedral> could be a marketing idea :-D 10:20:10 <dihedral> xiong, what is not 'perfect' about it? :) 10:20:11 <xiong> But if you want to get into a consist system, I'd like to put in my two cents and say that, if you're going to go far that level of detail, go all the way. Don't think in terms so much of train-by-train consist as of cargo manifests. 10:20:58 <dihedral> i am happy i do not even touch that part of the code :-D 10:21:05 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:02 <xiong> That is, manifest certain cargos -- percentages of available supply -- from origin to destination, passing perhaps several transfer points. Allocate trains as manifest workers on legs intermediate and define possible consists for them to assume. Let them assemble their consists in response to manifests. Otherwise, there is too much micromanagement. 10:23:06 <andythenorth> xiong: that would indeed be good :) 10:23:06 <_Terkhen_> I agree that shared orders have a series of problems (their "invisibility" being the most important one) and that the consist idea provides many benefits, but I'm not sure about the best way of tackling them 10:23:07 <xiong> Instead of constant refitting, which is extremely unprototypical, you require of the company owner that he buy and reserve cars for manifested cargo and keep them in depot as a pool from which auto-consist trains may draw. 10:24:01 <xiong> _Terkhen_, I have a background in systems design. I love micromanagement to a point but there's a time for the company owner to delegate. This is one of those times. 10:24:23 <fjb> Moin 10:24:56 <_Terkhen_> I can't see how having to deal with wagon changes reduces micromanagement 10:24:57 <xiong> For the utmost in realism, you require the building of a dispatch office at any station which will receive auto-consisting trains. After all, the engineer does not decide which cargo to pick up; it is the dispatcher's responsibility. 10:24:59 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:25:54 <_Terkhen_> I prefer simple solutions that are fun ingame, this sounds overcomplicated to me 10:26:13 <xiong> Think of the dispatcher as a mini-AI. You allocate certain trains to his control and put certain manifests on his desk. The same manifest must go to each dispatcher in the network -- each dispatcher that might handle that cargo. 10:26:35 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon 3 had automated dispatching 10:27:00 <andythenorth> you just left the consist at 'any cargo' and the game figured it out 10:27:19 <andythenorth> based on differential between spot prices for cargo at source and destination 10:27:26 <dihedral> <xiong> For the utmost in realism <- that is not going to go down very well 10:27:34 <dihedral> realisem is not the aim of this game 10:27:54 <dihedral> and perhaps someone might want to quote that - xiong has me on ignore :-D 10:28:04 <xiong> Not complicated at all, in play. You have already built the dispatch office; you have already created a manifest: (Goods from Verona to Altoona); now you just select the manifest and click on dispatch offices along the route. It's analogous to selecting a train and clicking stations. 10:28:12 * andythenorth wonders....what *is* the aim of this game? 10:28:27 <SmatZ> fun 10:28:43 <dihedral> "It attempts to mimic the original game as closely as possible while extending it with new features." 10:28:47 <planetmaker> ^ very much so: fun :-) 10:29:03 <andythenorth> what is 'fun' please? 10:29:06 <_Terkhen_> to me, adding new features that make it more fun to play, but without modifying the original feeling of the game 10:29:07 <planetmaker> realism is only used when it adds to fun :-) 10:29:07 <dihedral> if you are out for realism, i want tides :-P 10:29:31 <dihedral> ^^ 10:29:42 <xiong> In fact, since the dispatcher must be associated with a station, it *is* clicking stations. The only difference is that you are not ordering a train from station to station; you are ordering a manifest of cargo from station to station -- in both cases along an incompletely-defined route. 10:29:44 <dihedral> and i want birds flying around 10:29:49 *** fani0z is now known as fanioz 10:29:54 <xiong> Same feel. 10:30:19 <dihedral> and i want longer build times 10:30:22 <dihedral> :-P 10:30:47 <dihedral> let the server pospone the docommands for, lets say, 1000 ticks :-P 10:30:50 <dihedral> for each tile 10:31:41 <_Terkhen_> xiong: IMO changing from ordering vehicles to ordering cargos is a huge change 10:31:41 <xiong> Now that I think of it, it's not even really necessary to click on stations. Presumably, every dispatcher sees the manifest of every cargo that hits his station; and each one decides the best way to forward manifested cargo toward its destination. 10:31:57 <xiong> It is. But then, so is consists. 10:32:31 <_Terkhen_> depends on your definition of the consist feature 10:32:33 <xiong> The question is, Are you concerned with cargo or with trains? It's tempting to say the latter but then, why all the complex industrial cargo chains? 10:33:01 <_Terkhen_> to make vehicle networks more complex 10:33:24 <planetmaker> :-) 10:33:25 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:26 <xiong> I wouldn't want to trivialize trains or remove any existing functionality. It's up to the player how to allocate trains. Currently, all vehicles are in what is known in prototype roads as 'captive service'. 10:34:17 <xiong> No problem with retaining that, of course. You have a solid pair of industries, you connect them with rail, you throw 6 long trains between them in captive service. 10:34:49 <xiong> But when you have an odd box here, two odd bundles there, it's far more efficient to simply manifest them through to where you want them, ultimately, to go. 10:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what you say sounds like a hell of a lot of micromanagement 10:36:01 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, Then I didn't explain it well. 10:36:11 <dihedral> he'll start again ^^ 10:36:20 <xiong> What do you see as demanding player's attention? 10:36:37 <dihedral> the undo knob :-P 10:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you just used the word "click on..." too often... 10:37:56 <xiong> More I thought about it, less clicks I thought needed. At first I thought, click on stations. That's not only not necessary; it kinda defeats the point. Let me give a concrete example; that's usually best. 10:38:41 <xiong> Currently, I have a coal mine and an iron ore mine feeding a steel mill and a forge. The mill produces metal, for which right now I have no use; the forge produces farm and engineering supplies. 10:40:08 <xiong> I also have a sheep station, a stockyard, and a 'arable' farm. 10:40:42 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving, BRB] 10:41:02 <xiong> So, I want to move many large trains of iron to both forge and mill and many long trains of coal to the steel mill only. I also want to move large quantities of sheep. 10:41:41 <xiong> But, I get relatively little farm and engineering supplies out, which I want to distribute to all the other industries, in various combinations. 10:42:20 <xiong> It makes sense, using the existing system, to place long trains in captive ore, coal, and livestock service. I refit those trains for that purpose. 10:43:47 <xiong> But to distribute the products of the forge, I'm more likely to want to manifest them to all consumers. So, I simply select the cargo (in a button off the station window for the forge) and click on a desired destination, creating a manifest. 10:44:37 <xiong> I don't see much entering of numbers here and maybe that would just be un-OTTD-like. So, let available cargo be distributed equally on outstanding manifests, which of course can be cancelled at any time. 10:44:54 <xiong> Right then, having created the manifest, I'm done with that part. 10:44:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.22.66.123] has joined #openttd 10:45:17 <Mortomes|Work> andythenorth: Yeah, I liked that system in railroad tycoon 3 10:45:40 <Mortomes|Work> I liked the whole economy/pricing model in that game in general 10:46:37 <xiong> But trains must be available to move the cargo and they can't be in captive service. So, I buy new engines and new cars *but* I don't assemble them into a train; I keep them all in depot. I order the engineer to Report to Dispatcher, which can only be done at a station that has constructed a Dispatch Office -- one click. 10:47:48 * dihedral sometimes does wonder.... 10:47:54 <xiong> I'm done, now; the dispatchers take it from there, no matter how many transfers my cargo must go through to get to where it's going. In station windows, just as now, manifested cargo carries a small indicator, so I know I can sort of not worry about it. 10:48:12 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a357.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:33 <planetmaker> sounds at least three levels too complicated, xiong 10:48:41 <andythenorth> works in RT3 10:48:45 <xiong> Only because I'm explaining it in words. 10:48:51 <andythenorth> but requires a supply-demand economy in that game 10:48:58 <planetmaker> buy train, assign orders. done 10:49:02 <planetmaker> easy. 10:49:03 <andythenorth> might work with cargo packets 10:49:05 <xiong> No juju is required. 10:49:10 * _Terkhen_ agrees with planetmaker 10:49:31 <planetmaker> :-) 10:49:36 <xiong> Here it is buy engine, buy cars, assign to dispatcher. Then, manifest cargo; done. 10:49:52 <Mortomes|Work> openttd would be awesome with a rt3-like supply/demand economy 10:49:57 <planetmaker> which is two or three steps more. For the same task. Without extra fun 10:50:23 <xiong> If you don't see the extra fun, well, I dunno. Why do it at all? 10:50:23 <Mortomes|Work> The way it worked in rt3 was very simple 10:50:46 <planetmaker> xiong, in order to build a nice network :-) 10:50:47 <dihedral> sounds like it would make the game more boring 10:50:51 <Mortomes|Work> You just set the train to auto-consist and it would always take the most profitable type of cargo between destinations 10:50:57 <andythenorth> it's good 10:51:00 <planetmaker> not in order to micro-manage each vehicle along its build process 10:51:02 <xiong> I mean, you can have a much simpler model in which cargos just naturally move to where they're going and all you have to do is throw money at them. 10:51:02 <andythenorth> but it's not TTD :) 10:51:17 * dihedral nods 10:51:20 <planetmaker> ^ 10:51:22 <_Terkhen_> ^ 10:51:27 <dihedral> ^ 10:51:29 <dihedral> hihi 10:51:36 <Mortomes|Work> v 10:51:37 <_Terkhen_> that is IMO a core part of TTD 10:51:40 <xiong> You can build a nice model without giving a single thought to realistic operation. 10:51:56 <dihedral> how about you explain it in a patch :-P 10:52:20 <xiong> I don't say that's wrong, either. But real trains do not form up and roll around the country year after year without breaking up in a yard. 10:52:29 <xiong> Or rather, they do -- but not all of them. 10:52:29 <andythenorth> ttd is about being massively frustrated by network capacity :D 10:52:38 <planetmaker> hehe 10:52:39 <andythenorth> ttd also encourages lots of unit trains 10:52:49 <planetmaker> unit trains? 10:53:09 <andythenorth> single cargo, point-point, no backloads 10:53:09 <andythenorth> return empty to destination usually 10:53:10 <xiong> Unit trains are those in captive service. As usual, competing jargon. 10:53:22 <andythenorth> mine -> steel mill and return empty 10:53:34 <planetmaker> ah 10:53:46 <andythenorth> backloading would be silly 10:54:01 * planetmaker likes the possibility to refit trains in order to make two-way trips :-) 10:54:16 <xiong> These are common and profitable in prototype. You have a gravel pit and a cement factory; you haul gravel one way, all day, all night, year after year. 10:54:18 <andythenorth> yeah, but it requires balanced cargo production 10:54:26 <xiong> You take nothing back to the gravel pit. 10:54:31 <planetmaker> or appropriate orders, andythenorth :-) 10:54:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: if there were partial load orders, that would help 10:54:53 <planetmaker> yes, it would 10:54:57 <andythenorth> I don't get the more complicated conditional orders 10:54:58 <planetmaker> don't look at me! 10:55:01 <planetmaker> :-P 10:55:19 <andythenorth> is timetabling a suitable hack for partial loads? I wondered if 'wait 10 days' is about same as 'wait for 50% cargo' 10:55:25 <_Terkhen_> planetmaker: two way trips is what makes me keep thinking about partial refit orders, even if they raise too many problems 10:55:33 <andythenorth> ships particularly 10:55:35 <xiong> But -- and this is the key point -- you do, very likely, haul small amounts of machinery to the gravel pit. You don't do that with the unit train. You do that with a 'train' that is really just an entry in the timetable. It makes up what's available at each station. 10:55:46 <andythenorth> xiong: do it with a truck :) 10:55:49 <planetmaker> _Terkhen_, yes, they'd make sense there (too). Though even w/o refit you can have mixed trains 10:55:57 <andythenorth> I was trying to figure out how to do wayfreights / manifest trains / mixed freight 10:56:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, timetabling can help there, yes 10:56:10 <planetmaker> unless the cargo influx is too big 10:56:20 <andythenorth> manifest trains should be possible, but I've never figured out how 10:56:24 <planetmaker> so it's not really an adequate replacement 10:56:25 <_Terkhen_> the biggest problem with partial refit orders is that they refer to a part of the train... what if the train changes? 10:56:59 <planetmaker> _Terkhen_, well... same thing as with what if the station is bulldozed: invalid orders 10:57:49 <planetmaker> I see though that it can be more painful 10:58:02 <_Terkhen_> if a station is bulldozed, all shared orders are invalid 10:58:05 <andythenorth> _Terkhen_: 'refit to consist' 10:58:16 <_Terkhen_> if a single train is changed, only that train has invalid orders 10:59:27 <_Terkhen_> andythenorth: that is what makes me want to forget about partial refit orders... partial refit will be useful to define consists anyways, and saying that this should be done as refit to consist orders when they are available would save me the trouble 11:00:32 <xiong> Are you guys thinking about being able to give orders to single cars? 11:00:42 <andythenorth> exactly :) 11:00:54 * dihedral nods 11:00:54 <_Terkhen_> hm? 11:01:13 <andythenorth> xiong: no 11:01:17 <andythenorth> that would be interesting 11:01:23 <xiong> Then, that is basically a manifest system. Why not just do it on the basis of cargo, not on cars, which are, from one viewpoint, interchangeable? 11:01:24 <andythenorth> but probably unworkable :) 11:01:39 <andythenorth> xiong: try cargo dist / dest / whichever :P 11:01:40 <dihedral> because it is too much work to code :-P 11:01:50 <andythenorth> it's in the openttd development forum 11:02:07 * xiong looks 11:02:53 <_Terkhen_> to me, consists are just vehicle templates... you can clone them, refit to them and so on 11:03:06 <_Terkhen_> or am I missing something? 11:03:39 <andythenorth> no 11:03:48 <andythenorth> templates to match to 11:04:25 <_Terkhen_> what is the difference? 11:05:51 <andythenorth> nothing 11:05:54 <xiong> This (http://wiki.openttd.org/Passenger_and_cargo_destinations) is much like manifesting but it adds the demand of certain cargos to go to certain destinations -- in fact, I think the latter is the main point and the auto-routing subservient to it. 11:06:55 <xiong> I dunno about this. In theory, one could just throw a large number of trains on the layout, sit back and wait for it all to sort out. There's no real management at all of cargo. 11:07:03 <xiong> ... or trains, really. 11:07:27 <xiong> Is that what you're thinking of, andythenorth? 11:09:43 <xiong> Forum link: (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41992), with 99 pages of posts. (!) 11:10:21 <xiong> If this is the topic I barged in upon, I'm going to barge right out. I've wasted time trying to divert that train. 11:11:55 <dihedral> the cargo will only "want" to go to destinations to which a train connection (possibly via transfers) exists - irrc 11:12:02 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12:26 *** kenneth [kenneth@cpc1-nrte13-0-0-cust531.8-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:19 *** azaghal [~azaghal@109.207.46.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:10 *** Guest3404 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice3n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 11:20:16 *** Guest3404 is now known as norbert79 11:20:36 <norbert79> Afternoon 11:31:16 <SmatZ> hello norbert79 11:31:21 <norbert79> Hey SmatZ 11:31:23 <xiong> Okay, now I'm totally confused. I just got an alert that Verona Coal/Sheep now accepts Mail. 11:32:03 <norbert79> That is why vulcans never play OpenTTD. :) 11:32:36 <Rubidium> Tele2... 11:32:58 <xiong> The station's catchment area, I have just checked, certainly does not include even a single house. Verona itself is piddling (pop 391, not all of which is in its station's catchment) and accepts no mail at all. 11:33:53 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:09 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe your catchment area is larger than you think it is 11:34:36 <xiong> I checked. 11:35:13 <xiong> If it included all of Verona, then it wouldn't be enough, right? It doesn't reach one house. 11:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have an irregular station, the catchment area is the smallest rectangle that contains the whole station 11:35:52 <Rubidium> as I said, Tele2: http://blogg.hh.se/carmen/files/2010/06/tele2frankborntobecheap11.jpg 11:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> plus the radius (4 for train stations, 5 if it contains a dock, more for some airports 11:36:26 <xiong> *That's* interesting, nothing I've seen documented. But doesn't affect this. The coal mine and sheep farm are nearly adjacent. The station is contiguous. 11:36:31 <norbert79> Rubidium: I don't get the sheep part... :) 11:36:52 <norbert79> Rubidium: Oh, wait, I think I got it :) 11:37:00 <Rubidium> norbert79: it's what Tele2 advertises with 11:37:18 <norbert79> Rubidium: Yeah, and the sheep... Ok, I missed part of the conversation, now I get it :) 11:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: it gets worse than that, with irregular stations, the catchment area is different depending if you're delivering or picking up cargo :p 11:37:50 <xiong> Wait. I lied. I forgot I built an extension truck stop. Still, it can't possibly catch more than the bus station central to the town itself. 11:38:04 <xiong> ? 11:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> for delivering, the rectangle around the station (plus radius) counts, for picking up, the rectangle around the house/industry (plus radius) counts 11:38:50 <xiong> Eddi|zuHause, That is illogical, definitely not anything I've seen documented. It may be realistic, dunno. 11:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's nothing to do with realism, it's a technical problem 11:39:47 <xiong> Where 'plus radius' is what? The radius of the station part at which X is being delivered? 11:40:14 <xiong> Do you mean addition or geometric union? 11:40:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the catchment radius. i explained above 11:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> try building a station, and enable "display catchment area" 11:41:25 <xiong> I have. It always displays the catchment of the station part being built. I'd very much like to display catchment of the already-built stations. 11:41:48 <xiong> Although if it's variable, then dunno; some color-coding is called for. 11:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, complain to svippy for not finishing his patch... twice... 11:42:11 <xiong> Actually, it's worse than that for overlapping catchment areas. 11:42:25 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.16] has joined #openttd 11:42:48 <xiong> One really wants to be able to toggle it on and off for each station, so one can figure it out. 11:43:54 <Yexo> http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/catchment.png <- the marked area is the catchment area for accepting cargo by the station 11:44:44 <Yexo> so although neither the train station tile nor the bus stop is in reach of either the powerstation or the town, it'll still accept passengers, mail and coal 11:44:51 <norbert79> Yexo: Which also depends on the value set within 'Advanced settings' 11:45:37 <Yexo> norbert79: in this case actually not 11:46:12 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:15 <norbert79> Yexo: Why? I thought, that one station in this case is being treated as the 'start' of the station, and the other the end, and between the area cannot be higher, than the predefined 11:46:19 <Yexo> with "more realistically sized catchment areas" on: both bus stops and train stations have a catchment radius of 4, when turned of the bus stop has a radius of 3 and the train statino still 4 11:46:24 <xiong> My question, though, had nothing to do with display. Assume a town has a bus station part, radius 4; and a train grain loading station, radius 5. Assume that some tile of a coal mine overlaps some tile of this catchment. 11:46:35 <Yexo> the catchment radius of the station is the maximum catchment radius of any part of the station 11:46:42 <Yexo> and max(4, 3) == max(4, 4) 11:47:00 <xiong> Sorry; counting that way, radii of 3 and 4. 11:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if the truck stop is connected to a rail station, its radius is promoted to 4 as well 11:47:30 <norbert79> Yexo: More realistic would be if the catchment size would be only those two catchment areas, which are being defined for this station, I mean twice the same small area 11:47:30 <Yexo> xiong: please provide a screenshot and/or savegame 11:47:46 <xiong> Yexo, Your explanation is lucid and logical and the drawing self-explanatory. It's Eddi|zuHause's that makes no sense to me. 11:48:02 <xiong> Okay, wait. 11:48:13 <Yexo> xiong: I explained the same (only with a screenshot) as Eddi|zuHause did 11:48:32 <Yexo> norbert79: I won't argue with that, I'm just explaining how the current implementation works 11:48:49 <xiong> If the bus stop is connected to a giant airport with a radius of 10, does the bus stop also get promoted to a radius of 10? 11:48:52 <norbert79> Yexo: Yeah, thanks for that, helped me also a bit understanding it a bit more this way 11:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, xiong 11:49:08 <Yexo> xiong: for accepting cargo: yes 11:49:11 <xiong> Okay, great. 11:49:24 <xiong> But for dropping cargo...? 11:49:32 <Yexo> not sure 11:49:41 <xiong> Yexo, You are saying that the shot you just posted applies only to pickup. 11:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> dropping is the same as accepting? 11:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no, only to delivery 11:50:05 <xiong> Accepting, Eddi|zuHause. You say it's different, then? 11:50:08 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Exactly, wanted to mention. I think xiong was more referring to "creating" 11:50:11 <Yexo> xiong: that screenshot only applies to "Cargo types which the station accepts" 11:50:18 <Eddi|zuHause> for pickup, the radius around the industry counts 11:50:27 <Yexo> so you order your trains to unload those cargos there 11:50:44 <xiong> Okay, Eddi|zuHause; now I'm asking, *which* radius around the industry. 11:51:38 <Yexo> xiong: in that case actually the radius of the station _part_ is used, not of the complete station 11:51:40 <xiong> Do you mean to add, as a border all around the industry, an additional 4 or whatever tiles? Or do you mean to have the industry extend the bounding box so that it remains a rectangle? 11:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the algorithm works as follows: the industry checks a radius "max_catchment_area" around it, if it contains a station tile, and then allows moving cargo to that station if catchment_radius for that station tile includes the industry 11:52:25 <xiong> Yexo, That is yet a third possibility and I have to ask then if by 'station part' you mean the part doing the unloading? 11:52:31 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9116:6c2e:6ae3:c53b] has joined #openttd 11:52:34 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:52:36 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Even though it's one tile only, right? 11:52:40 <Yexo> xiong: no, any station part 11:52:51 <Yexo> ie what Eddi|zuHause explained in more words 11:52:53 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 11:52:54 <Yexo> norbert79: yes 11:53:03 <norbert79> Yexo: Ok, thanks, I wasn't just 100% sure 11:53:43 <norbert79> Yexo: As an improvment idea it would be nice if the algorythm could check how mnany tiles are being covered by the station radius, the more tiles are there, the more stuff is being delivered to the specific station :) 11:53:46 <xiong> Okay, then let my try it this way: For loading, the catchment is the smallest bounding box. For unloading, it is the union of the industry footprint and all the station part footprints, which may be irregular or full of holes? 11:54:25 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, something like that 11:54:35 <xiong> No thanks, norbert79; I'm happy to be able to grab a corner of a remote industry and have it all. 11:54:52 <norbert79> xiong: That would be more challenging ;-) 11:54:54 <xiong> Sorry; I wrote wrong. 11:56:22 <xiong> Okay, tFor loading, the catchment is the smallest bounding box. For unloading, it is the union of the industry footprint and all the station part footprints plus their radii, which total may be irregular or full of holes. The radius of each station part is promoted to the radius of the most extensive station part, for both loading and unloading. 11:56:26 <norbert79> and to even make it more interesting: tiles which do notr provide additional functionality to a station (like those eye candy elements) should not enrlage the station's acceptence area when such a tile is set, like an animation of a truck for a coal train-station 11:57:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21001 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#4170] (r20936): clients were not always notified of a player leaving the game 11:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: you need "objects" for that 11:57:45 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah, true... But with objects you have the issue not being able to remove them, well, not always 11:57:57 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Like the boyes 11:58:08 <norbert79> or how are those spelled 11:58:13 <Rubidium> buoy? 11:58:16 <norbert79> thank you 11:58:19 <norbert79> exactly 11:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: non-track station tiles are an evolved thing that is not really optimal, but is kept around for backwards compatibility 11:58:30 <dihedral> i can only imagine when that got introduced :-P 11:58:49 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I like them though, it gives that plus 'realism', being able to decorate my stations 11:59:30 <dihedral> 2) OpenTTD doesn't do IRC, so it might very well be something wrong with the bot <- always blame it on the bot, yeah yeah :-P 11:59:34 <xiong> Yexo, Let's play Make a Deal. I will take a fairish number of small shots and outline on them where I now think the catchment may be. I will tarball them up and you check them, mark the wrong ones 'WRONG'. I will put together some sort of wiki documentation page on the topic. Sound rational? 12:00:04 <Yexo> <Yexo> xiong: in that case actually the radius of the station _part_ is used, not of the complete station <- after some testing it seems I was wrong there and it's actually the station radius of the complete station 12:00:17 <Yexo> xiong: great :) 12:00:29 <xiong> Argh. 12:00:52 <xiong> Then what's the difference between pickup catchment and acceptance catchment? 12:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the irregularity 12:01:12 <xiong> Ah. Okay. 12:01:27 <Yexo> acceptance catchment is a rectangle around the complete station + the catchment area 12:01:31 <xiong> And this acceptance catchment *varies* with the type of cargo delivered, right? 12:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no, cargo type is irrelevant 12:02:02 <Yexo> pickup catchment is the union of (for every tile: rectangle around tile + catchment radius) 12:02:37 <xiong> Whoa! Yexo, you just suggested that the industry footprint itself didn't count. I thought Eddi|zuHause said that it did. 12:03:11 <Yexo> hmm, my last statement wasn't completely correct indeed 12:03:14 <Rubidium> dihedral: "by comparing activity on irc and ingame, it seems that when players left the game on irc the client is not notified about that" <- well, I read that as: the fact that the client is leaving is not notified on IRC 12:03:48 <dihedral> yeah - it was misleading that for sure is true :-) 12:03:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:03:58 <dihedral> however i did kinda get what he was on about :-D 12:04:09 <dihedral> sadly only noticed the fs task now 12:04:25 <xiong> Okay, then. Let me not waste you guys' time further on this talk, which is very difficult. I'm very good at phrasing things formally but only when I know what I mean. For gathering data, the experimental method will work best. I will get started on some shots. 12:04:39 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:04:52 <Rubidium> that's why my comment #1 was: I don't understand the sentence, followed by #2: you're talking about IRC, that's not something OpenTTD does so there must be some bot involved 12:05:17 <avdg> I typed to fast :) 12:05:29 <norbert79> xiong: We are all curious, since this would also affect my games too... I like mostly placing stations near industries, or accepting areas, but it's not always possible, so I would be happy to see how this could be addressed. 12:06:54 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 12:06:55 <dihedral> Rubidium, i was just trying to tease you ;-) 12:07:13 <Rubidium> should I go PFY on you? 12:07:26 <xiong> I can see now this is going to change radically my station placement. I have already exploded my current system anyway as too hard to figure out, with multiple overlapping stations. 12:08:21 <xiong> For big cities, it's just madness. I won't show you a shot of Shirleysburg to illustrate because I really have no clear idea which station parts belong to which stations and 4 of them now refer to the town. 12:08:37 <xiong> Proper Planning Prevents Problems. 12:08:51 <norbert79> xiong: If you have the money :) 12:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong, norbert79: you might try to check this out: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=33701&p=888995#p888995 12:09:59 <xiong> Well, at first, of course, I was nearly broke. I put one bus stop almost at city center and another to cover a side. 12:10:28 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Nice, thank you 12:11:12 <xiong> Then, the city grew so large in relation to its neighbors that the only way I could think of to quiet the pax was to provide local service inside the city itself. So, another couple of bus stops forming a second logical station. 12:12:21 <xiong> Later, rail and truck stops added. Then streetcar (tram) stops, both pax and freight. Now I have 2, maybe 3 stops on some blocks (the misnamed 3x3 grid) and no way at all to tell which belong to what. ) 12:13:45 <xiong> Let me work on this shots so that Yexo can pass judgement. In fact, what I will do is post them to a forum thread; since I can edit my own posts, I can take down the bad ones and rewrite the text. 12:14:00 <xiong> Then everyone can get into the act. 12:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=131167&mode=view <-- catchment areas. the dark area is for picking up, the light area also for dropping off 12:15:43 <Yexo> xiong: one screenshot for you: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/catchment2.png 12:18:06 <avdg> train stations have a bigger radius right? 12:18:34 <Yexo> 4 12:19:20 <dihedral> <Rubidium> should I go PFY on you? <- no ;-) 12:19:48 <Yexo> bus/truck stops: 3, train stations: 4, docks: 5, airports: custom. When "Allow more relistically sized catchment areas" is off, then all stations have catchment radius 4 12:19:48 <avdg> oh, nvm I missed a comment 12:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> truck/bus: 3, train: 4, dock: 5, airport: varies from 4 to 10 [or so] 12:20:18 <xiong> Dunno, Yexo; that's very well done. Should I try to improve on it? 12:20:44 <Yexo> feel free, if you think it's clear enough put it in the wiki (maybe crop it first though) and write a text to accompany it 12:20:49 <Yexo> if you can improve it please do so 12:20:51 <xiong> It's not totally unambiguous but I think I get the drift. 12:21:02 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the thread i linked to contains a patch that is supposed to visualize these areas 12:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not tested the patch 12:21:31 <xiong> Let me ask one question about it: If the oil wells are taken to accept some sort of cargo, does this station accept it? 12:21:46 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: it doesn't vizualize the example with the oil wells though, you still have to know that 12:22:01 <Yexo> xiong: no 12:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: no. it must contain an actual industry tile that accepts 8/8 of the cargo 12:22:08 <xiong> Um. 12:22:10 <Yexo> because no tile of the oil well is within the dark red area 12:22:46 <xiong> Also, your sketch shows no holes. I can improve with a more aggressive example. 12:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: the power station is in the hole 12:23:12 <xiong> But first I will post little shots to clarify the rules, before I attempt the big explanation. 12:23:24 <Eddi|zuHause> xiong: if the power station would produce something, it would not be transportable 12:23:35 <Yexo> xiong: another point: if the power station produced something, you wouldn't be able to pick it up from the station 12:25:18 <xiong> That is the reverse of how I phrased it earlier. You say, pickup, holes -- union of footprints plus station part radii. Accept, no holes, bounding box. 12:25:44 <xiong> Complicated that irregular industries also have bounding boxes, which count for pickup but not for acceptance. 12:26:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, play around with the above patch 12:27:20 <norbert79> I just wish all useful pacthes would come into mainline, like the one you just showed Eddi|zuHause :) 12:27:32 *** avdg1 [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:27:46 <xiong> Um, no thanks, actually, as much as I want it. I've never installed a patch yet or built from source. I have to keep to some limits or else I will fall into some variant where I'm playing on Mars and green slime is eating my dune buggies. 12:27:50 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:07 <dihedral> :-D 12:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: well, it's not my fault that the author disappears before the patch is finished 12:28:12 <xiong> Let me get to work. This may take a day or two. 12:28:23 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Agree on that :) 12:28:28 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and he did it twice... 12:28:37 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Annoying... 12:32:17 <xiong> Meanwhile, I think I've made progress with bigsig-003: (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50450&p=908871#p908871). 12:37:05 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-103.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:37:24 <dihedral> \o/ party balloons 12:37:25 <dihedral> :-P 12:37:44 <dihedral> i prefered the one from the post above i must say 12:38:58 <Eddi|zuHause> the colours seem awfully messed up 12:39:12 <_Terkhen_> my favourite was the first one 12:39:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't make any sense of these pictures... 12:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i'll stay with the original signals... 12:40:32 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I am also for more real signals and their functions, than something new, but some might kinda like it 12:41:35 <dihedral> i would try to combine the arrow and one of the green lights in http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=908687#p908687 12:41:59 <dihedral> or one of the lights in general - does not have to be one of the green ones 12:44:06 <xiong> Magic Bulldozer isn't really, is it? It's really Magic Demolish? 12:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> magic dynamite 12:45:11 <norbert79> xiong: It's a kind of magic... :) 12:45:21 <dihedral> it bypasses some 'conditions' 12:45:49 <xiong> Well, the graphics for Demolish no longer look like dynamite; now they look like a bomb. 12:45:55 <norbert79> xiong: To say it simple: it allows you removing industrial parts, or sprites, like antenna 12:46:18 <norbert79> xiong: Within OpenGFX maybe, but using the original sprites, it's a dynamite 12:46:21 <xiong> In this game though, Demolish and Bulldoze have different, specific meanings. 12:47:17 <xiong> You can doze only the NE-SW part of a road while leaving the NW-SE part of the same tile untouched. Demolish takes all. 12:47:54 <norbert79> xiong: and magic demolish/dynamite removed such, as everything, what you cannot normally demolish 12:47:59 <xiong> If it were truly a Magic Bulldozer, you'd be able to clip off just one corner of an industry. 12:48:09 <Noldo> :D 12:48:51 <norbert79> that wouldn't make too much sense :) 12:49:18 <Noldo> that would be New Magic Bulldozer 12:49:33 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 12:49:38 <norbert79> Noldo: That would be just plain silly :) 12:49:54 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:50:00 <Noldo> and the one that reads your mind and demolishes the thing you want is Yet Another Magic Bulldozer 12:50:24 <norbert79> ok, lets not overcomplicate this, shall we? :D 12:51:29 <planetmaker> err... norbert79 why do _you_ review the German translation? 12:51:38 <planetmaker> (I thought you were Hungarian) 12:52:43 <planetmaker> I don't mind, I'm just astonished :-) 12:52:51 <norbert79> planetmaker: Because I speak it :) 12:53:03 <planetmaker> good. Then get working on updating it :-) 12:53:05 <norbert79> planetmaker: Was the first language I learned 12:53:14 <planetmaker> your mother tongue? 12:53:21 <norbert79> planetmaker: I am doing it, I am on it, but I need a reply to my entry in forum 12:53:30 <planetmaker> you got it 12:53:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: Hungarian... Then gewrman followed, later english 12:53:58 <norbert79> I almost failed in English back in high-school, because of German :D 12:54:11 <norbert79> I couldn't just get use to the English grammar :) 12:54:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 12:54:25 <planetmaker> though... usually we want people who grew up with the language as translators 12:55:02 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, if it's a problem, it's fair, yet I really don't mind helping out 12:55:08 <planetmaker> :-) 12:55:16 <planetmaker> I wouldn't mind someone fixing that. 12:55:24 <norbert79> so post 1998 then, right? 12:55:28 <planetmaker> In principle I know the rules, but I grew up with the old ones 12:55:34 <norbert79> Same here 12:55:36 <dihedral> ^^ 12:55:43 <planetmaker> So I don't recognize the old ones as 'wrong' or outdated 12:55:56 <norbert79> me neither, but just for the heck of it 12:56:43 <norbert79> I was grown up with German television, media, beein in contact often daily basis with Germans... 12:56:57 <norbert79> Like with you guys ;-) 12:57:03 <planetmaker> :-D 12:57:10 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:47 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:34 <planetmaker> well, then go right ahead, norbert79 :-) 13:04:44 <planetmaker> Any help there's welcome 13:05:27 <norbert79> planetmaker: Thank you! Yeah, will review the rules, just to refresh my memory, and will start translating 13:05:34 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 13:07:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:07:41 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09:03 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 13:09:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 13:09:52 <Belugas> hello 13:09:59 <norbert79> Hello there Belugas 13:10:15 <planetmaker> hello sir Belugas 13:10:25 <andythenorth> moo 13:10:30 <Belugas> hi hi boyz and mem 13:10:36 <planetmaker> woof andythenorth 13:10:44 <andythenorth> dogcow? 13:11:02 <planetmaker> just an alien with a strange accent 13:11:04 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow 13:11:10 <andythenorth> moof 13:19:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:22:40 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:31:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:45:00 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-240.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 13:47:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:48:16 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 13:49:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 13:49:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 13:49:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ 13:49:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ 13:49:52 <dihedral> Rubidium, what say you to a custom kick message? 13:50:05 <dihedral> i mean in the game 13:50:21 <planetmaker> in what way custom? 13:50:22 <dihedral> which gets displayed to the client in the read box 13:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you have very german grammar today ;) 13:50:40 <planetmaker> :-P 13:50:48 <dihedral> server command accepts an optional further parameter holding the message which in trun is then displayed in the clients error window 13:51:32 <planetmaker> I rather need the full command log ;-) 13:52:01 *** ar3kaw [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:06 <planetmaker> when a client cares to know he'll be online anyway and I can talk to him (or her. But I guess I never kicked a her from an OpenTTD game) 13:52:16 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 13:53:12 <dihedral> using irc as a reference - i believe the message is 'the last word' 13:53:39 <dihedral> was just an idea 13:55:37 <dihedral> it could esp. be useful with an automated kick via the admin network ^^ 13:59:33 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:02:06 *** davis [~b@p5B289564.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:09 <norbert79> Ok, have to go for now, see you all later! 14:04:16 <norbert79> bye everyone 14:04:16 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice3n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 14:05:25 <planetmaker> dihedral, I see the point, yes :-) 14:05:50 <dihedral> automated kicking might not be a favourable something anyway :-P 14:05:57 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72dc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:06:04 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 14:06:06 <planetmaker> well :-) 14:06:21 <planetmaker> I'm sure we'll find plenty of "needed" additions ;-) 14:06:30 <dihedral> hehe 14:06:40 <planetmaker> for certain definitions of "needed" :-P 14:06:43 <dihedral> :-P 14:10:59 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.34.158] has joined #openttd 14:13:50 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:19:08 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:22 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:21:14 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 14:25:21 *** [twisti] [~twisti@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-16-221.westend.de] has quit [] 14:28:24 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:28:37 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cf37.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:32:40 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:45:18 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 14:45:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:48:08 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 14:49:10 *** lewymati [~lewymati@78.8.136.15] has joined #openttd 14:49:19 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:49:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:51:45 * Belugas mumbles and silently swear at "support team" 14:51:50 <Belugas> dunno what they support 14:51:59 <Belugas> other then the telephne, that is.. 14:53:12 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:55:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:56:08 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.233.17] has joined #openttd 14:56:59 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:15 *** fani0z is now known as fanioz 14:58:24 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd88a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:02:27 *** fani0z [~fanioz@180.214.232.27] has joined #openttd 15:02:59 <dihedral> perhaps they support the customers to reach the developers :-P 15:04:34 <Belugas> to that, they are so freeaking good! 15:04:42 <dihedral> ^^ 15:09:05 *** fanioz [~fanioz@180.214.233.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:10:03 *** fani0z is now known as fanioz 15:17:17 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has joined #openttd 15:24:11 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.34.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:24 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:33:30 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7560C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:41 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7560C.dip.t-dialin.net] 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<norbert79> Evening 16:07:43 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 16:19:57 <SmatZ> hello norbert79 16:20:04 <norbert79> hey SmatZ 16:23:25 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:24:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b8955.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:27:44 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2819.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 16:34:09 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:34:10 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:44 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:38:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:25 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 16:50:33 <dihedral> oi's :) 16:54:42 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:49 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:10:03 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has joined #openttd 17:13:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i always thought my old computer had an onboard VGA, but apparently it doesn't... 17:17:32 <__ln__> onboard EGA then? 17:19:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:29:10 <andythenorth> evening 17:31:37 *** IPG [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 17:31:50 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently new cpu coolers don't fit on old cpus 17:32:47 <Rubidium> then you haven't used enough force yet 17:33:12 *** IPG_ [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 17:34:14 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: bbl] 17:35:19 <andythenorth> more glue 17:35:55 * andythenorth ponders some work 17:39:59 *** IPG [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so... if it explodes now, i applied the force the wrong way 17:40:59 <__ln__> the force will guide you 17:41:59 *** IPG_ [~chatzilla@pool-152-66-222-50.bgk.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21002 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 17:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 14 changes by lmartinking 17:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by norbert79 17:43:44 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 1 changes by kkmic 17:43:45 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 255 changes by reindeeruz 17:48:27 <norbert79> that will be more later 17:54:08 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:54:09 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:57:36 <andythenorth> _Terkhen_: does HEQS support the toyland sugar climate? 17:57:49 <andythenorth> I have some weird white load sprites that I know not the purpose of 17:58:00 <andythenorth> sugar cargo /s 17:59:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:55 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:00:54 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:01:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host253-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:02:10 <Wolf01> hello 18:03:06 <davis> hi 18:03:32 <zachanima> oh 18:03:32 <zachanima> no 18:10:28 <davis> hm? 18:14:57 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:19:15 <davis> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=132897 , is there some kind of tool that creates such maps? 18:21:55 <Rubidium> it's called visio 18:22:27 <TrueBrain> would be one awesome OpenTTD plugin :D 18:22:44 <davis> I just thought that TrueBrain 18:22:46 <davis> thanks Rubidium 18:24:52 *** fjb is now known as Guest35 18:24:53 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE76F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:27:21 <TrueBrain> fits in the idea of cargodist/cargodest 18:27:32 <TrueBrain> you just need to resolve the network, and make a 'fair' map out of it 18:27:43 <TrueBrain> should be interesting to make an open source implementation out of that (if it doesn't exist already) 18:27:43 <andythenorth> that is pretty good 18:27:51 <andythenorth> there must be a graph tool 18:27:54 <TrueBrain> relative straight-forward, yet a few nasty pitfalls 18:28:24 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@s5591716a.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:30:48 <norbert79> Ehm, one advise: Visio is great, but costs a lot, and a bit complicated. I would recommend Inkscape, which is a professional vector-graphic tool, and OpenSource too... 18:31:15 <norbert79> I know, it wasn't merely designed for network-layout creation, but it's very efficient, fast and also for free 18:31:44 *** Guest35 [~frank@p5DDFF7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:24 <TrueBrain> hmm .. does Visio cost a lot? I wonder why I have it for free then ... :D :p 18:37:02 *** Cybert1nus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:06 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:39:16 <Wolf01> TrueBrain, but that system fits better with routes instead of the (shared) orders since it's line-based and not vehicle-based 18:39:44 <TrueBrain> 'that system' 18:39:48 <TrueBrain> I love unclear references :) 18:39:57 <TrueBrain> which one you refer to? :) 18:41:48 <norbert79> TrueBrain: Well, I really emphasize people for OpenSource, since it gets developed, just like OpenTTD, also helps innovation and gives you also a powerful tool where with Visio your knowledge will be limited to closed source and to one OS 18:41:55 <norbert79> TrueBrain: But have it as you wish :) 18:42:20 <norbert79> TrueBrain: Besides, having Inkscape copied is legal :P 18:42:20 <TrueBrain> norbert79: I suggest to install a be-less-serious mode in your OS :) 18:42:43 <norbert79> TrueBrain: Nah,I just like things open, and legal :) 18:43:02 <Eddi|zuHause> afair celestar built a graphviz export into cargodest 18:43:16 <TrueBrain> well, there you go davis :) 18:43:18 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:44:00 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2819.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it didn't look as well as that picture above, though 18:45:47 <TrueBrain> room for improvement :) 18:46:02 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause> graphviz doesn't have good algorithms for this 18:46:52 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 18:46:59 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:50:35 <TrueBrain> it has a simple export format 18:50:36 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:49 <TrueBrain> but yeah, one could even do a bachelor project on this, I guess :) 18:52:40 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:47 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 18:56:43 *** lewymati [~lewymati@78.8.136.15] has quit [] 19:03:14 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 19:11:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2819.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:11:45 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC234A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:19:19 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:20 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 19:21:39 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:24:24 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:32:45 *** Katje_ [~Kitty@tao.quixotic.eu] has joined #openttd 19:33:09 *** Netsplit over, joins: ashb 19:33:09 *** Netsplit magnet.oftc.net <-> reticulum.oftc.net quits: zachanima, luckz, @DorpsGek, Wolf01, Fuco, ack, Vadtec, Andel, lugo, SirSquidness, (+92 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:34:02 *** Netsplit over, joins: GoneWacko, SpComb, Sacro, rasco, eQualizer, Mazur, guru3, ccfreak2k, dihedral, mindlesstux (+16 more) 19:34:02 *** DorpsGek` [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 19:34:02 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:34:02 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:34:04 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, @orudge, Prof_Frink, Adambean, davis, @Belugas, Fuco, lolman, George, Andel (+62 more) 19:34:06 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 19:34:16 <dihedral> wow - big one 19:34:48 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: Prisk1, TheMask96-, asnoehu, heffer, Mazur, APTX, __ln__, GoneWacko, guru3, dfox, (+10 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:35:08 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:35:15 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 19:36:06 *** Netsplit over, joins: dihedral 19:36:16 *** Netsplit over, joins: SpComb, GoneWacko, Chillosophy, dfox, KouDy, __ln__, HerzogDeXtEr, Mucht, APTX, TheMask96- (+9 more) 19:37:16 *** neli [micha@244-233.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #openttd 19:37:48 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> galapagos.oftc.net quits: Prisk1, TheMask96-, Mazur, heffer, asnoehu, GoneWacko, rasco, APTX, Mucht, guru3, (+9 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:41:38 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:42 *** Netsplit over, joins: SpComb, GoneWacko, Chillosophy, dfox, KouDy, __ln__, HerzogDeXtEr, Mucht, APTX, TheMask96- (+9 more) 19:45:33 *** DorpsGek` [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:42 *** DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 19:45:45 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 19:49:10 <dihedral> irc.openttd.org? :-P 19:49:31 <Wolf01> eheh 19:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> more chuck than ever before! 19:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> "NBC has ordered another 11 episode, totalling 24 episodes this season" 19:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> *episodes 19:52:15 <Rubidium> woohoo! :) 19:54:41 <Rubidium> at least he's better than the other chuck that shall not be named :) 19:55:55 <Rubidium> dihedral: nah, that would be too much effort 19:56:09 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:56:09 <Rubidium> need to handle spammers and such. I rather offload that to someone else 19:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean he who counted to infinity twice? ;) 19:56:23 <andythenorth> hmm 19:56:31 * andythenorth has an interesting HEQS trams problem 19:56:48 <Rubidium> andythenorth: want to get rid of it? 19:57:00 <andythenorth> the problem or the trams? 19:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem, i hope ;) 19:57:17 <Rubidium> either? 19:57:50 <Eddi|zuHause> on the other hand, V was cut down from 13 to 10 episodes 19:57:54 <Rubidium> just "sell" HEQS to someone else to support. Then you got rid of the problem 19:58:04 * andythenorth sells HEQS to rubidium 19:58:26 * Belugas is still pissed off that they cut out the Earth 2 show 19:58:37 <andythenorth> the tram problem is with load sprites 19:58:48 <Belugas> not to mention Defying Gravity 19:59:18 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:59:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Earth 2? is that like 15 years ago? 19:59:38 <Rubidium> Firefly! 19:59:55 <dihedral> Rubidium> dihedral: nah, that would be too much effort <- yep - flightgear does it, i do not know why, but they do it :-P 20:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Defying Gravity was a little sad, i agree... 20:00:19 * andythenorth awaits HEQS support from rubidium 20:00:41 * Rubidium is happy he isn't rubidium :) 20:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what's the actual problem? 20:01:17 <andythenorth> rubidium sells HEQS to Rubidium 20:01:39 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: vehicles showing the sprites aren't the vehicles holding the cargo 20:01:46 <andythenorth> so loaded sprites don't show 20:01:56 <Eddi|zuHause> ah... 20:01:57 *** Joni_ is now known as Joni- 20:02:19 <andythenorth> it's resolvable, but fiddly 20:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so... you need to make the vehicles that are hidden 0 capacity, and the ones that show non-0 capacity 20:02:27 <andythenorth> yes 20:02:33 <andythenorth> which is a few more varaction 2s 20:03:04 * Rubidium sells HEQS to SpBot 20:03:05 <andythenorth> or we code rv-wagons :P 20:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> just make the capacity callback do the same calculations as the show-callback 20:03:21 <andythenorth> yes 20:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> should be mostly copy-paste 20:03:27 <andythenorth> or we code rv-wagons 20:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i have two administrative problems... first, ntp seems to be started twice on boot, causing some trouble... second, how do i "autostart" an nx session on the server? 20:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 27 07:23 K13ntp -> ../ntp 20:09:51 <Eddi|zuHause> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Apr 27 07:23 S09ntp -> ../ntp 20:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the meaning of these? 20:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> they are both in /etc/init.d/rc5.d/ 20:11:52 <Rubidium> one for starting, one for killing? 20:11:59 <_Terkhen_> andythenorth: I don't remember if there are cargo sprites used explicitly for sugar, let me check 20:12:23 <_Terkhen_> I do know that there is no complete sprite support for toyland, but given your opinions about this I never asked for complete support :P 20:13:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:14:29 <dihedral> Rubidium, is this ok? http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/admin_network.txt 20:15:37 <planetmaker> dihedral: 1. Joinint the network 20:15:45 <andythenorth> good night 20:15:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@host86-171-86-103.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: are you sure about that? ... this doesn't really explain why it's started twice 20:16:29 <planetmaker> port 3970? I thought 3977? 20:17:52 <frosch123> night 20:17:54 <planetmaker> Forther, sending a 'say' command (or any similar command) will not recurse <-- further 20:17:57 <planetmaker> g'night frosch123 20:17:57 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd88a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:04 <planetmaker> ha :-) fast enough :-) 20:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> or the network lagged ;) 20:19:49 <Rubidium> dihedral: I'll look at it somewhat later 20:19:56 <dihedral> :-) 20:20:06 <dihedral> i'll update it again :-) 20:20:06 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:20:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-180-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:20:59 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: well, on my system the shutdown scripts start with K, the startup scripts with S 20:21:08 <SpComb> kill 20:21:27 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:31 <Rubidium> although all K scripts are in rc[06].d, the S scripts in rc[1-5S].d 20:21:43 <dihedral> lucky you 20:22:00 <dihedral> i also have kill scripts in all the others ^^ 20:22:18 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has joined #openttd 20:22:40 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@94-21-77-225.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:58 *** fmauneko [~fmauneko@88.166.241.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:19 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 20:24:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:20 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 20:26:25 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:48 <dihedral> updated 20:28:56 <peter1138> downdated 20:30:26 <planetmaker> dihedral: better "App remains connected when starting a new or loading a saved game" 20:30:56 <Belugas> blinddated 20:31:23 <Belugas> yoursisteridated 20:31:31 <planetmaker> there's no weather in that documentation, I hope. Whether it might be a spelling mistake is left to the reader's judgement 20:32:13 <__ln__> http://narf-archive.com/pix/03c08ba0650bf57e7797b93168be4eb012e5b608.jpeg (sfw) 20:33:30 <planetmaker> Also provided is information on clients and companies (using "," instead of and looks wrong) 20:33:39 <Chris_Booth> evening all 20:33:46 <_Terkhen_> hi Chris_Booth 20:33:51 <planetmaker> shouldn't it also contain the packets in more detail, dihedral ? 20:33:57 <planetmaker> hi Chris_Booth 20:34:24 *** raisin [4da25aa4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:34:38 <planetmaker> wow, that hurts, __ln__ 20:34:43 <Chris_Booth> hi _Terkhen_ and planetmaker 20:35:13 <planetmaker> also, __ln__ you can always post patches (in reply to your question yesterday) 20:36:47 <planetmaker> I would probably look at a patch from that category 20:39:06 <__ln__> I'd like to switch the default mapping of Ctrl and Cmd. So that Ctrl-click would do what it does in all other applications except OpenTTD. 20:39:08 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:39:31 <dihedral> planetmaker, i deliberately did not include those details as i am afraid if tcp_admin.h got updated someone would fail to update the docs 20:39:43 <dihedral> and the inline documentation is very clear 20:40:07 <dihedral> if someone was going to write an app for that network, they very well should be able to read tcp_admin.h 20:40:46 *** Lurimax [~quassel@68.59.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:07 <__ln__> But I was unable to convince Bjarni about that because he had never used Ctrl-click because he has a two-button mouse and not a trackpad. 20:43:59 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:44:23 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa7fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:27 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:52:03 <planetmaker> point taken, dihedral 20:53:27 <planetmaker> __ln__: Ctrl gives some kind of context menu 20:53:32 <planetmaker> at least here 20:54:44 <planetmaker> The problem I see with changing everything from ctrl -> cmd is that a) Tooltips will all be wrong and b) current users will complain 20:55:04 <planetmaker> the pro is that it's the usual behaviour which is expected 20:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the worst thing about that picture is that the phrase i learned as a child doesn't work anymore either... 20:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Mein Vater ErklÀrt Mir Jeden Sonntag Unsere Neun Planeten" 20:55:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "Merkur Venus Erde Mars Jupiter Saturn Uranus Neptun Pluto" 20:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you know that chuck is evil? 20:57:24 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:38 <Eddi|zuHause> he made me listen to this stupid song "Dead Man's Party" 20:57:49 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has joined #openttd 21:02:01 <__ln__> planetmaker: Ctrl-click emulates clicking the right-mouse-button... except not in OTTD. And yes, tooltips would be wrong, but Mac users are said to be smarter than average people. :) 21:02:09 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:14 *** last_evolution [~last_evol@ip-86-49-60-58.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i have my doubts about that :p 21:03:12 <__ln__> And Cmd is used for things similar to what Ctrl would do on a PC. 21:04:00 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: and why don't you just change it for yourself, and leave it to everybody else to figure out how to switch if they are bothered? 21:05:23 <dihedral> but planetmaker is a mac 21:06:06 <planetmaker> I'm quite human actually 21:06:15 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 21:06:53 <planetmaker> __ln__: what I _can_ imagine is to _also_ use cmd where currently only ctrl is used 21:07:07 <planetmaker> that'd be consistent but keep the tooltips right 21:07:16 <Rubidium> dihedral: http://rbijker.net/openttd/dih.diff 21:07:28 <planetmaker> thus cmd=ctrl with OpenTTD 21:07:30 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: well, my initial question yesterday was actually about: would by patch be accepted *because* Bjarni wouldn't accept it. so don't expect 110% valid arguments. :) 21:09:18 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a357.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: gn8] 21:09:48 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:47 *** raisin [4da25aa4@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:17:33 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 21:21:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-220-140.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:00 <planetmaker> __ln__: I will neither reject or accept anything because or not because of something. But only based on my own judgement whether it's improving things, matching the game and not hurting anything else therein 21:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you start to sound like a lawyer 21:23:39 <planetmaker> and testing some of the proposed OSX patches has made me indeed quite weary of possible implications 21:24:09 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:24:16 <Eddi|zuHause> OSX is broken by design 21:24:21 *** Vitus [~chatzilla@138.194.wms.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:22 <planetmaker> fixing things here, but breaking it elsewhere. 21:24:51 <Eddi|zuHause> neither windows nor linux need that much maintenance effort... 21:26:05 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* don't put the keyboard on the black-furry-thing-that-makes-miau-when-you-put-the-keyboard-on-it 21:26:40 <Keiya_> Eddi|zuHause, you're supposed to write programs for OS X /only/ 21:26:46 <Keiya_> And only worry about the newest version of the OS 21:27:02 <Keiya_> You're not fitting in to Apple's Plan, and that's why you have problems 21:27:16 <Keiya_> FIT IN. BE PART OF THE COLLECTIVE. 21:27:21 <Rubidium> given that the newest version of OS X is iOS4 or something 21:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Keiya_: you forgot "and rewrite the app every 2 years" 21:27:28 * planetmaker suddenly is imensly bored 21:27:32 <Rubidium> and Apple doesn't allow GPL applications on that OS, we don't have to care anymore 21:28:15 <Keiya_> I'm pretty sure they'll add an OS X app store within the next couple revisions 21:28:27 <Keiya_> And then disable non-app store apps a couple revisions after that 21:28:47 <Keyboard_Warrior> Keiya_, well obviously. 21:29:04 <Rubidium> I'm pretty sure App(le) stores aren't a thing we have to worry about 21:29:04 <Keyboard_Warrior> though, i wouldnt be suprised if microsoft tries to do that aswell 21:29:13 <dihedral> damn legalistic 21:29:29 <Keyboard_Warrior> users using shitty/broken/non updated apps = major headache on any os 21:29:59 <Keiya_> Every time MS has attempted that it's blown up in their faces... 21:30:06 <Keyboard_Warrior> sure. 21:30:10 <Keiya_> And even the 360 lets you run your own code on it. 21:30:18 <Keyboard_Warrior> but eventually they'll be a 21:30:21 <Keiya_> Whereas Apple's had nothing but success with taht model. 21:30:24 <Keyboard_Warrior> windows "it just works" edition 21:30:39 <Keyboard_Warrior> then, all the non tech people will start using that 21:31:00 <Keyboard_Warrior> with its app store and what not 21:31:45 <Keyboard_Warrior> Keiya_, and apple does get a bit of stick for being restrictive 21:31:51 <Keyboard_Warrior> see all the people jailbreaking their iphones 21:32:19 <Rubidium> just look at all people "jailbreaking" OpenTTD, i.e. patching it 21:32:24 <dihedral> Rubidium, the server can send various packets after the welcome packet 21:32:45 <dihedral> e.g. ERROR, NEWGAME, SHUTDOWN 21:32:54 <Rubidium> it's a perfect way to get rid of the support you have to legally give 21:33:51 <planetmaker> we have to legally give support beyond "here's the source"? 21:34:26 <Rubidium> true, for us it's not really legally but more ethically 21:34:27 <planetmaker> (didn't I read the fine print? ;-) ) 21:34:38 <planetmaker> :-) 21:34:46 <Rubidium> but then legal and ethical should be somewhat close to eachother 21:34:57 <planetmaker> emphasis on *should* 21:35:03 <dihedral> hehe 21:35:43 <Rubidium> dihedral: you're telling me you didn't add some stuff to the document? I've just given you a load of (possible) improvements. You can still add your own improvements as well :) 21:36:00 <dihedral> i am :-) 21:36:14 *** Wizzleby [~wizzleby@pool-108-16-114-12.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:19 <dihedral> did not mean to sound ungreatful :-) i love feedback and help :-) 21:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in the EU you have to give 2 years warranty for everything commercial, including software 21:41:59 *** ar3k [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 21:43:42 <planetmaker> no 21:43:55 <dihedral> hihi - shame, i did like "*** glx has joined the game" 21:44:00 <dihedral> hihi 21:44:27 <planetmaker> you have to make sure that things work for that time 21:44:52 <planetmaker> But I'm not sure it applies to software. As you don't (physically) sell it 21:45:02 <planetmaker> After all you only get a license 21:45:10 <planetmaker> that is the right to use it 21:47:08 <planetmaker> and besides OpenTTD isn't distributed (by us) commercially 21:49:02 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/admin_network.txt (updated) 21:50:59 <enr1x> hi guys 21:51:31 <enr1x> i have a question: there's a lorry station which accepts goods, but when I unload, the goods stay there; the station won't pay me. what could be wrong? 21:51:53 <enr1x> there are now over 700 units of goods unloaded there... 21:52:18 *** robotx [~robotx@141-70-75-133.user.wh-stuttgart.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:52:35 <planetmaker> try not to use explicit unload orders 21:52:36 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:52:47 <SmatZ> enr1x: don't use transfer orders ; does the station REALLY accept goods? 21:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> enr1x: you use "transfer" when you shouldn't? 21:53:53 <enr1x> http://enricus.info/2010-10-20-235730_1024x768_scrot.png 21:54:10 <enr1x> there's a unload and leave empty order... 21:55:53 <Eddi|zuHause> my internet is too slow for this picture... 21:56:17 <Rubidium> image fails, but... goods originally came from that station? 21:57:13 <planetmaker> broken image for me 21:57:43 *** Chillosophy [~fu@82-170-139-109.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 21:58:08 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:59 <enr1x> yeah, i saw the problem, there was an intermediate station which fell on the coverage of the factory 21:59:16 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:59:21 <enr1x> so the goods would be actually unloaded on the coverage of the factory 21:59:29 <enr1x> thanks for the help guys 21:59:47 <SmatZ> "coverage of a factory" in an unknown term for me 21:59:54 <SmatZ> but fine it helped :) 22:04:22 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:27 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:05:08 * dihedral is off to bed :-) 22:05:11 <dihedral> good night 22:05:31 <SmatZ> good night, dihedral 22:05:52 <planetmaker> good night dihedral 22:05:59 <planetmaker> and good night all others, too 22:06:05 <SmatZ> good night, planetmaker :) 22:06:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:06:45 <_Terkhen_> good night 22:06:49 *** _Terkhen_ [~Terkhen@130.69.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:07:24 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:11:56 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:41 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:37 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 22:13:44 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:15:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19891.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:17 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:22:43 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:25:07 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:37 *** davis [~b@p5B289564.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:37 *** avdg1 [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:34:53 *** davis [~b@p5B289C72.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:35:09 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72dc4b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:35:19 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-253-30.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 22:35:36 *** avdg [~avdg@94-227-100-192.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:39:46 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:40:44 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:41:31 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:47:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.220.202] has joined #openttd 22:50:16 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 22:52:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.194.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:01:11 *** Keiya_ [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:02:38 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:04:03 *** lobstar [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 23:08:39 *** Keiya [~Keiya@pool-96-230-229-184.mdsnwi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:42 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe83de00-38.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:23:47 *** davis [~b@p5B289C72.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:03 *** davis [~b@p5B28BFBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:28:07 *** George is now known as Guest68 23:28:11 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 23:32:19 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:32:23 *** lolman [~lolman@188-220-249-105.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:34:18 *** Guest68 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:18 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 23:37:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host253-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:42:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-159-103.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 23:45:47 <Keiya_> Coal is lucrative. 23:48:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:18 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC234A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:58:53 *** ^Spike^ [~spike@d200003.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]