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00:01:30 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=40162&p=913064#p913064 00:01:32 <Samu> there it is 00:06:55 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 00:10:51 <Samu> hehe, wrightAI is winning 00:18:17 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0f82f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:53 *** avdg [~avdg@78-22-161-27.access.telenet.be] has left #openttd [] 00:22:00 <Samu> took 10 years for NoCAB to start building something 00:24:37 <Samu> RoadRunner and CluelessPlus still have nothing 00:27:36 <SpComb> playing on a 386? 00:28:13 <Samu> no 00:28:28 <Samu> intel pentium 4 2400 00:30:00 <Samu> wow, nocab really knows how to profit 00:31:45 <Samu> SimpleAI starts immediately, cool 00:34:19 <Samu> Roadrunner: Computing triangulation over 1242 targets... 00:34:35 <Samu> is that a lot for the CPU? 00:34:49 <Samu> I don't know this type of language 00:41:00 <Samu> NoCAB error 00:41:10 <Samu> already reported the other day 00:41:32 <Samu> it's ranked 1 anyway, let's see how long it stays there 00:41:41 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:44:24 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:47:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f77fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:27 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-251.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 01:00:05 <Samu> I don't understand what RoadRunner is doing 01:00:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Meep Meep 01:00:46 <Samu> it planted 2 stations 01:00:55 <Samu> road ready 01:00:59 <Samu> but no trucks 01:01:18 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8043.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:01:50 <Samu> debug window says it's building several roads 01:01:52 <Samu> let me check 01:02:47 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:10:59 <Samu> I think the AI is trying to connect 9 Coal mines using the same road 01:11:30 <Samu> trying a network thing based on 9 coal mines 01:11:45 <Samu> it's been 11 years and no trucks yet 01:13:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 01:19:28 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:20:44 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 01:21:05 <Samu> OMG, at last! 01:21:10 <Samu> build a fleet of 14 trucks 01:21:23 <Samu> RoadRunner finally started 01:21:30 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:21:54 <Samu> 12 years after 01:22:32 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:23:50 <supermop> hello 01:23:55 <Samu> hi 01:24:31 <supermop> i have a question about some .nfo 01:25:19 <supermop> don't know if anyone here has been reading my thread 01:25:32 <supermop> where i am showing how much of an idiot i am 01:25:36 <supermop> but 01:26:21 <supermop> basically I'd like to know right now if i can have multiple varaction 02s for one station id 01:26:56 <supermop> well not 'right now' 01:27:13 <supermop> but thats what i am focusing on at the moment 01:30:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-229-235.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you haven't properly understood my description of the tree structure yet 01:34:54 <supermop> thats an understatement 01:35:07 <supermop> im looking at your diagram now 01:36:31 <supermop> so if action 3 says to use set id 03, and varaaction 2 says that 03 consists of either 01 or 02 01:37:10 <supermop> and then two separate action 2s define what goes into sets 01 or 02 01:38:04 <supermop> is it possible for some ranges to use both 01 and 02 at the same time? 01:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i think not, but you can make a 04 consisting of (duplicated) sprites from both 01:43:54 <Samu> wow, i've just been asked twice if I wanted to try out the same vehicle 01:44:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: happens when you mess with newgrfs inbetween 01:44:52 <Samu> how exactly? 01:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: if you hit "apply" in the newgrf setting, the introduction dates are re-randomized 01:45:48 <Eddi|zuHause> so if the new introduction date lies in the future, then you can get the same offer again 01:46:14 <Samu> I didn't use a newgrf for this game 01:46:17 <Samu> hmm 01:48:06 <Ammler> orudge: every thread which is locked because of stupidities could as could also be removed like spam. Else it shouldn't be closed. 01:48:09 <supermop> an action 4? 01:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> no 01:48:35 <Eddi|zuHause> an action 2 with the id 04 01:48:35 <Samu> I gotta go, cyas 01:48:49 <Samu> Trans AI won 01:48:50 <supermop> ah ok 01:48:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or any other id. 01:48:54 <Samu> bye 01:48:59 <supermop> bye 01:49:03 *** Samu [Samu@248.40.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #openttd [] 01:49:30 <supermop> so in that cas, can their be multiple different varaction 2s? 01:49:34 <supermop> case 01:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 01:49:49 <supermop> ok thats good 01:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> as many as you like 01:50:08 <supermop> maybe its easier for me to explain what i am trying to do 01:50:30 <supermop> so at least i dontt sound like a ttal idiot 01:50:44 <supermop> ahhh except i cannot type 01:50:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't... ;) 01:51:01 <supermop> i am eating a cookie as i type... 01:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen some total idiots in my time, you're definitely not one of those ;) 01:51:40 <supermop> well thats good 01:51:46 <supermop> thanks 01:52:01 <supermop> basically i want a tile with 4 sprites on it 01:52:26 <supermop> and i want to turn them on or off based on varaction 2 results 01:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you should decode some other GRFs, and try to understand how they did it. 01:53:35 <supermop> that might help 01:53:41 <supermop> when i first started mlss 01:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> like in newstats.grf it has some tiles that show fences 01:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on which neighbouring tiles are stations or non-stations 01:54:25 <supermop> yeah i just want to make simple fences that apear on the edge if that edge is the boundary of the station 01:54:43 <supermop> i havent seen that grf on bananas 01:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately, MB has been reluctant to upload any of his grfs there... 01:55:22 <supermop> yeah 01:55:30 <supermop> i also dont want to rip anyone off 01:55:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's buried deep in the graphics forum, on ttdpatch.net or in the coop-grf-pack. 01:56:54 <supermop> i had so much trouble understanding japanese stations without comments 01:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a difference between copying someone's work, and trying to learn how to do it from someones work. 01:57:07 <supermop> but i feel like i need to figure this out 01:57:12 <supermop> yeah 01:57:39 <supermop> i mean if some just coded my set for me, that would be great. but its not going to happen 01:57:55 <supermop> and i want to draw more complicated sets later 01:58:07 <supermop> so i need to learn alot of stuff 01:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are maybe a handful of guys who have coded station sets so far. i'm sure if you make your question specific enough, they're more than willing to help 02:01:12 <supermop> do you think stations are harder than railtypes, or the other way aound? 02:15:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i have the feeling stations are one of the most complicated 02:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> railtypes have almost no useful action 2 variables, so there's not much complexity to be expected there 02:16:48 <supermop> hm 02:17:17 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3C7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:17:40 <supermop> just so i am clear on your tree diagram 02:18:37 <supermop> action 3 says to use a set which is defined by varaction 2, and varaction 2 uses sets from regular action 2s? 02:19:07 <supermop> and the regular action 2s use sprites from an action 1 02:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, varaction 2 may use other varaction 2 as well 02:19:16 <supermop> ? 02:19:21 <supermop> ok 02:19:26 <supermop> so you can nest it? 02:19:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 02:19:48 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> like branches of a tree, you may have further subbranches 02:20:18 <supermop> all all of these set ids start from 00, and I can start over at 00 for the next tile? 02:21:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can reuse an ID if you know you don't have to reference the old action 2 anymore 02:23:37 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:24:02 <supermop> ok 02:25:01 <supermop> and where do i define which sprites go into each action 2 02:29:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in the action 1, i suppose... but i really don't know 02:31:11 <supermop> yeah, this is where i am gettin stuck 02:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have one big action 1, and then multiple (non-var) action 2 that pick spritesets from this action 1 02:32:41 <supermop> whoa really? 02:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can have any number of varaction2 that pick between the previous action 2 02:33:09 <supermop> i thought only action 00 picks sprites in the action 1 02:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and then one action 3 02:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> action 0 never picks any sprites 02:35:59 <supermop> but thats where you use the 0042D etc numbers and set up the bounding box... 02:36:09 <supermop> hm 02:36:26 <supermop> i must have a fundamental misunderstanding here 02:37:07 <supermop> its amazing my earlier grf worked at all 03:07:31 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f52a:b0a8:9c:a42f] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:45:18 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:03:23 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 04:06:08 <xiong> I have decided that an early goal is to jail the towns; by which I mean to ring them with company reserved land and track. Previously, I figured on building bus stops early and running a little local service to stimulate towns. Then, I thought no, I don't actually want the towns to grow, except under my direction. 04:06:54 <Chrill> xiong: prevent towns from building roads. That way, there will be no room for expansion unless you construct the roads yourself 04:06:56 <Chrill> it works for me 04:07:15 <Chrill> the whole ring business is way more complicated when there is a setting that prevents towns from expanding :) 04:07:40 <xiong> But I've run into local authorities who don't care for neglect and later arrogant invasions of big stations and big plans. So, now I've gone back to the local service, but on a scale calculated to please local authority, not stim the people. 04:08:28 <xiong> Chrill, I know about the setting but to me, anyway, it seems underhanded -- no challenge at all, no contest. Besides, towns sometimes do interesting things, that I might not have thought of alone. 04:09:25 <xiong> Type in point being strange bridges. Some are just dumb, others amusing. One town escaped jail with a long bridge. I gave it some new land but re-established the jail around it. 04:10:35 <xiong> I did turn off the ability of towns to build grade crossings across my tracks. That doesn't seem fair to the company. Although, in reality, such things are extremely contentious issues. 04:11:33 <xiong> I'm starting to think of towns as liabilities, though, rather than assets. Pax service does make early money but later, towns are just in the way, even if they're small. 04:12:09 <xiong> Chrill, I certainly do see the attraction of your approach. 04:20:00 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d663.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:23:40 *** Dreamxtreme2 [~Dre@92.30.238.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:00 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.238.26] has joined #openttd 04:27:20 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c674.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:57:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:57:45 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:24:04 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:33:18 <xiong> What is the status of the FIRS Sugar Refinery? I see a big green block, which I interpret as missing graphics. Is someone working on this? Would help be appreciated? 05:34:26 <xiong> Um, besides graphics skills, I've lived near a sugar refinery. I wouldn't work from memory but you might say it gives me a head start. 05:52:14 *** Dreamxtreme2 [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has joined #openttd 05:55:30 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77595.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7657B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:14 <ccfreak2k> I would imagine it having a lot of pipes and a few silos and tanks., 05:58:26 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.238.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:02:42 *** Dreamxtreme2 [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has quit [Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!] 06:03:00 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has joined #openttd 06:14:04 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 06:19:07 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 06:29:15 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 06:30:00 *** llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d663.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:11:11 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 07:25:36 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-19.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:38:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:46:33 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 07:49:13 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:50:26 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:50:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:01:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-30-106.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:11:33 <planetmaker> good morning 08:12:20 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.50.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:57 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe29dc00-226.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:34:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:40:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:44:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ADBB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:55:23 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:56:50 <andythenorth> mornink 09:01:40 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth 09:01:41 <SmatZ> hello andythenorth 09:01:47 <SmatZ> what does "mornink" mean? 09:03:39 <orudge> Ammler: well, it isn't spam as such, it's just stupid, and can in theory act as a deterrent to other people who might ask the same question 09:07:47 <planetmaker> SmatZ: it's a joke which evolved ;-) 09:08:27 <planetmaker> morning-mornink. and 'worse' evening-evenink-odd ink :-P 09:16:06 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@2.124.130.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:17:04 <Terkhen> good morning 09:17:36 <Alberth> good morning 09:20:36 <andythenorth> gud morning 09:25:31 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 09:26:09 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=913098#p913098 <-- any opinion here? 09:26:30 <Rubidium> setting! 09:28:30 <planetmaker> :-) 09:29:09 * Terkhen prefers uniform trains 09:29:27 <Alberth> I like the mixed wagons, but I can imagine some people like to have neatly sorted wagons. 09:29:34 <Rubidium> or, in Haskell speak: _ 09:29:50 <Rubidium> Alberth: how realistic are neatly sorted wagons? 09:29:50 <Terkhen> yes, I wouldn't mind having them mixed either 09:30:29 <Terkhen> but I prefer to know what is a train carrying at a glance 09:30:31 <Alberth> Rubidium: ask Terkhen, I don't need them 09:30:46 <Terkhen> they are probably not realistic at all 09:31:16 <Rubidium> even the ICs have different cars/liveries 09:31:55 <Rubidium> like, who in his right mind puts a yellow/black engine in front of white/red wagons? Why not use a red one like the Germans do 09:32:25 <Alberth> haha, 'random' order in the colours of the country :p 09:32:40 <Rubidium> if you're lucky they even "mix" 3 types of passenger EMUs into one train 09:33:28 <Alberth> now that's service, the passengers can choose the one they like best :) 09:34:42 <planetmaker> :-) 09:34:43 <Rubidium> yup 09:34:50 * Rubidium choses the one with WIFI :) 09:35:13 <planetmaker> DB doesn't have that really... 09:35:30 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but they have ovens in some trains 09:35:44 <planetmaker> ovens? 09:35:58 <Rubidium> getting cooked in the ICE last summer? 09:36:02 <planetmaker> :-D 09:45:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21156 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Introduce EconomyIsInRecession(). 09:56:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21157 /trunk/src/ (34 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: remove information about the text direction out of the language "list" 10:00:42 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 10:04:13 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:09:33 * andythenorth wonders what to code 10:11:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21158 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Assert boundary inside the loop rather than afterwards. 10:12:24 <Alberth> all goodies of FIRS 0.5.4, or even 0.6.0. 10:12:54 <andythenorth> need this: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4131?project=1&pagenum=2 10:14:46 <Alberth> layout stuff should be fine, but better hold balancing. I am in the process of merging the industry thingie into trunk 10:15:40 <andythenorth> ooh 10:15:43 <andythenorth> shiny 10:15:43 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC59C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:18 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:16:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21159 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: AdvertiseIndustryOpening() also works with a const pointer. 10:18:14 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 10:23:03 *** xi234 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 10:29:17 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:33:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:43:58 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:48:13 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 10:48:13 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 19 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <frosch123> the coolness of the trains matter or so 10:53:38 *** Pulec|XNB [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:53:39 *** Pulec|XNB [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 11:01:52 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA1EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:10:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21160 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: reuse the strgen LanguageHeader to store some metadata about a language, and keep the language metadata in memory instead of loading it several times from disk 11:13:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f652c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:25:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21161 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: make the currently used language easier accessible 11:27:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 11:28:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21162 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/settings.h): -Codechange: move the config "field" for the language file out of dynlang 11:37:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21163 /trunk/src/ (language.h settings_gui.cpp strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: pass a LanguageMetadata struct instead of its index to ReadLanguagePack, and simplify one of its callers 11:42:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:43 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 11:56:46 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 12:04:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 12:09:09 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21164 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: replace the hardcoded array of language metadata with a list 12:12:07 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:18:50 *** Chillosophy [~fu@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 12:19:10 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d822a25.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:22:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:43 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:37:12 <Ammler> planetmaker: you forgot to update the topic as you announced the RC1 ;-) 12:37:23 <planetmaker> hm? 12:37:30 <planetmaker> oh :-) 12:37:35 <Ammler> 1.0.4, 1.0.5-RC1 12:37:54 <planetmaker> don't know, is it the topic how it should be? :-) 12:38:03 <Ammler> I guess so, afaik 12:38:37 <Ammler> at least I already thought the stable is now out but had to learn that it would be 1.0.5 :-P 12:39:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 12:43:21 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=913155#p913155 <-- nice. Permission to use is interpreted as permission to re-distribute... 12:49:27 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.0.4, 1.0.5-RC1 12:49:27 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.0.4, 1.0.5-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | English only 12:53:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: they host the package self? 12:53:59 <planetmaker> yes 12:54:03 <Ammler> any link? 12:54:39 <planetmaker> Yexo removed those. They had an integrated download: openttd + base sets + newgrfs 12:54:44 <planetmaker> I didn't save a link 12:56:20 <Ammler> I am quite sure, we never allowed someone to redistribute, as we wouldn't be allowed to give such permission anyway :-) 12:56:41 <planetmaker> exactly 12:58:56 <Ammler> oh, you already reported it that way :-P 12:58:59 <Eddi|zuHause> has anyone looked into whether the grf-pack should be downloadable via the installer, like ogfx? 12:59:39 <Ammler> I guess, it can't be officially supported... 12:59:53 <Ammler> it is quite greyish areay 13:00:36 <Ammler> but we have autodonwload permission for around 90% of the grfs 13:01:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: who cares about the grf-pack? it only contains proprietary crap :p 13:01:25 *** davis [~b@p5B28B593.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:01:47 <heffer> to redistribute what? 13:01:53 <davis> maybe s.o can help me there. http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=119922 , whats that tunnel newgrf? 13:01:55 <Ammler> also some older versions of bananas grfs 13:02:36 <Ammler> davis: looks like the cz tunnels? 13:02:56 <frosch123> looks like a screenshot from eddi 13:03:03 <davis> thought so too , but it seems that those are only downloadable in the cz railset. 13:03:12 <davis> Isa's screenshots actually. 13:03:19 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d663.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't usually use tunnel grfs 13:03:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but those should be the czech tunnels 13:03:58 <Ammler> davis: http://ttd.tycoonez.com/?id=21 13:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a grf containing the tunnels only 13:04:20 <davis> "0 - CSD rails (default) 13:04:20 <davis> 1 - original rails" 13:04:30 <davis> as soon as I hit original rails , the tunnels switch back to default aswell 13:04:45 <Ammler> obviously :-) 13:05:08 <Ammler> davis: you know Swedish Rails? 13:05:14 <davis> I do 13:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> davis: the file i have is called "tunel002.grf" 13:06:07 <Ammler> a Eddi-Hack :-) 13:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> no ;) 13:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have spelled "tunnel" correctly ;) 13:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i really don't remember where i downloaded it from 13:06:46 <davis> found it , thankyou 13:06:50 <Ammler> hmm, might be cz translation? 13:06:52 <davis> http://forum.tycoonez.com/viewtopic.php?p=9944&highlight=tunel002+grf#9944 13:08:09 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 13:10:28 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:13:54 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6158:d026:67a1:3bb0] has joined #openttd 13:13:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:15:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:18:43 <AveiMil> The time penatly for delivering goods, does it start at the moment your ship is 100% loaded and heading for the delivery dock, or does it start from the second the coal starts to load on to the ship? 13:19:07 <AveiMil> If the latter is true each "coal" on the ship is priced differently, since the coal loaded at 99->100% will have spent less time "travelling" 13:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> starts upon leaving the station 13:20:29 <AveiMil> ok thanks 13:25:41 <AveiMil> there should be a "far end"/near end order for road veihcles 13:25:59 <AveiMil> my trucks starts to load as they etner the first loading station, instead of the last one 13:26:05 <AveiMil> blocking the trucks behind 13:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> trucks go to the far end, except if they are blocked by another truck 13:33:46 <AveiMil> yeah, the far end of THAT platform 13:33:55 <AveiMil> if you build 3 lorry stations after one another 13:34:07 <AveiMil> the first truck will stop at the far end of the 1st lorry station 13:35:12 <AveiMil> even those the 3 lorry station is one collected station 13:35:16 <AveiMil> even though* 13:35:51 <Alberth> 2nd station not a busstop by accident? 13:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> the truck stations must be directly adjacent 13:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it doesn't work 13:36:51 <AveiMil> not a bus station by acceident, and they are one tile after the other 13:37:37 <AveiMil> |12||12||12| <- like that, 1 = near end, 2 = far end, truck arrives and stops to load at the first '2' spot 13:37:49 <AveiMil> when it should enter and stop at the third '2' spot 13:37:52 <Alberth> we need a picture and/or save game then 13:42:55 <AveiMil> nvm lol, I was behind tricked by the station sign, transperacy cleared it up 13:46:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:47:36 <AveiMil> wait, maybe I was tricked into thinking I was tricked 13:47:37 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/images/blocked.jpg 13:47:43 <AveiMil> that's what I mean 13:47:59 <AveiMil> different tyles of lorry stations, but should it do that? 13:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not going to work 13:51:31 <AveiMil> it has to be the same "type" of lorry station? 13:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 13:54:06 *** Chillosophy [~fu@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:01:41 <AveiMil> lol, I've made a system where I'm shipping coal from all over the "world" with road vehicles and ships to a single power plant 14:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> what's so funny about that? 14:04:20 <AveiMil> that it works 14:04:43 <AveiMil> anyway, how do you increase your rating with a town? advertising campaign dindt apper to work 14:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, advertising increases rating at the station 14:06:06 <Alberth> statue building, planting trees, waiting, bribing (perhaps) 14:07:02 <AveiMil> I cleared a bunch of trees not too far away from the town 14:07:08 <AveiMil> I guess that's what brought my rating to appaling? 14:07:31 <Alberth> likely, citizens don't like you chopping their trees 14:07:58 <AveiMil> there was sooo many trees around though 14:08:03 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 14:08:33 <Alberth> oh 'waiting' does need stations with good rating 14:09:54 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:10:32 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-251.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:13:13 <AveiMil> is there any way to save the windows you have open? 14:13:18 <AveiMil> so that what you load there they are agian 14:13:26 *** xi2345 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has joined #openttd 14:13:27 <SmatZ> no 14:14:03 *** xi234 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:04 *** xi23 [~xi23@78.110.223.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:30:43 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.209.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:43 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:01 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 14:31:04 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has joined #openttd 14:32:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.209.220] has joined #openttd 14:34:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21165 /trunk/src/ (language.h strgen/strgen.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: move the case/gender meta data into the language metadata struct as well 14:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> are we getting a newgrf-case/gender feature? 14:38:18 <Rubidium> no 14:38:30 <Rubidium> it's rather a bug fix 14:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's a really important feature... 14:39:13 <Rubidium> *no*, it's a bug *fix* 14:39:49 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you fix something that was not meant to work before? :p 14:40:30 <Rubidium> because it might have actually worked in the past 14:41:15 <Rubidium> before OpenTTD's string subsystem got rewritten 14:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> er... ;) 14:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that was like in 0.3-ish? ;) 14:42:24 <Rubidium> yes 14:42:35 <Rubidium> * <0x9E> <NUM CASES> <CASE1> <LEN1> <STRING1> <CASE2> <LEN2> <STRING2> <CASE3> <LEN3> <STRING3> <STRINGDEFAULT> 14:42:40 <Rubidium> that's in the comments of OpenTTD 14:43:09 <Rubidium> but all stringcodes in OpenTTD are in the 0xE000 range 14:44:05 <peter1138> heh 14:44:14 <peter1138> maybe i should've updated that lot... 14:44:56 <Rubidium> in 0.4: // 0x9D is used for the pseudo command SETCASE 14:45:22 <Rubidium> which are (somewhat) in the stringcodes' reserved ranges 14:46:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but... in 0.3-ish there wasn't really a lot of newgrf support... 14:47:00 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: actually, in the 0.4 branch cases would probably have worked 14:48:57 <Rubidium> as it seems cases didn't exist in 0.3 14:52:25 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 2597 14:52:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by ludde :: r2597 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2005-07-17 10:18:23 UTC) 14:52:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Feature: [string system] Support cases. 14:52:38 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - Cases are used to change a string, such as Coal Mine, depending on the surrounding context. 14:52:39 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - Cases are defined like "STR_4802_COAL_MINE.ack :Coala Mina" 14:52:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - All cases need to be listed on the top of the file like this "##case ack" 14:52:41 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: (...) 14:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 2594 14:55:40 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by ludde :: r2594 /trunk (13 files in 3 dirs) (2005-07-16 20:58:04 UTC) 14:55:41 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Fix: [strgen] Misc updates to the string system. 14:55:42 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - Renamed the plural command to "P" instead of "PLURAL". Now write something like this to append an s on plural: {P "" s}. (You can optionally still add an argument index to explicitly specifiy which number that's used) 14:55:43 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - Removed the pluralized cargo strings from the string files. The new method is to use the plural specifier {P} 14:55:44 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - Added support for genders. First add "##gender der das die" on top, then use {G=der} on a cargoname/industry to set the gender, and to switch between genders do something like {G neu neu neue} {STRING} 14:55:45 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: (...) 14:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (except that he got the order of the german genders wrong) 14:57:15 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 15:02:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21166 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Move MaybeNewIndustry() to IndustryBuildData::TryBuildNewIndustry(). 15:02:50 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:04:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21167 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Use IndustryBuildData::builddata instead of a local variable. 15:07:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21168 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Use desired industry counts rather than relative probability to decide which industry to build. 15:08:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21169 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Do not build industries during economic recession. 15:11:46 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 15:12:52 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21170 /trunk/src/ (industry.h saveload/industry_sl.cpp): -Codechange: Store industry management data in the save game (some of it is used in the very near future). 15:15:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21171 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Change: Reset industry build data at game start or load. 15:17:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21172 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Better control over how many new industries are created during the game. 15:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> spam! 15:19:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21173 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Don't recompute target industry counts each time. 15:20:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21174 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Add: Use a progressive back-off mechanism to reduce wasting build attempts at unbuildable industries. 15:20:54 <Alberth> ponies! 15:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> pony-spam 15:21:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that is delicious ;) 15:21:35 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r21175 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp: -Add: Forced construction of missing industries. 15:21:35 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA1EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:21:45 * Alberth hopes so 15:22:04 <Alberth> #gotta catch them all 15:25:41 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:28:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:06 *** Samu [Samu@194.136.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 15:38:12 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F7F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:39:09 <thomas001> hi, i am runnig openttd trunk. i remember in previous released openttd versions i could have orders like "if neccessary got to *this* depot", is this still possible in trunk? or am i simply remembering ctrl+click as wrong shortcut for this? 15:40:02 <planetmaker> that didn't change 15:41:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:29 <thomas001> oh "maintain at ...." really means "maintain if needed at ... "? 15:43:41 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:44:03 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:47:17 <Zuu> Is power sockets for laptops etc. generally available on the ICE trains? 15:49:51 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@adsl-99-129-146-48.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:52 <Rubidium> I know there are like 4 power sockets in quite ancient IC trains 15:50:02 <Rubidium> (per wagon) 15:50:56 <Zuu> Not like one for every seat then. 15:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i travelled by IC, there was power only in some selected wagons, not all of them 15:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but that's like 10 years ago 15:52:38 <Ammler> as I went to the ottd party, every 2nd seat had one 15:52:56 <Samu> hi Zuu 15:52:59 <Zuu> Hi Samu 15:53:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba95a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:12 <Zuu> Ammler: Good someone with better memory than I :-) 15:53:23 <Zuu> Possible because I didn't bring the laptop then. 15:53:27 <Samu> what's your AI name, I always forget 15:53:39 <Ammler> on swiss trains, you got around 2 plugs per wagon :-( 15:54:09 <Rubidium> wikipedia says that refurbished ICE1s have (some) power sockets 15:54:43 <planetmaker> they do 15:56:05 <Samu> I started a new game with 5000 towns 2048x2048 and 14 AIs doing very fast constructions. 15:56:23 <Zuu> Samu: CluelessPlus, PAXLink and TownCars 15:56:38 <Rubidium> interesting, ICE1: none, ICE2: a few seats, ICE3: almost all seats, refurbished ICE1: all seats have power sockets (again wikipedia) 15:57:04 <__ln__> finnish IC and IC2 trains nowadays have basically one socket per seat 15:57:18 <Samu> Zuu I have CluelessPlus on it, but it hasn't started yet 15:57:40 <planetmaker> give it time 15:57:47 <SmatZ> people really didn't need power sockets in trains even 15 years ago... 15:58:18 <planetmaker> :-) 15:58:48 <__ln__> but 10 years ago they would have needed 15:59:03 <__ln__> even more than today 15:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> IR wagons had power outlets in the toilet, but it didn't have enough power to load the laptop i had back then... 15:59:12 <Zuu> yea, when I as a kid commuted by train to school there was only a few sockets in each train car which some people maybe used to charge their phone but not really a lot as the cell phones back then lasted for a week. :-) 16:00:34 <planetmaker> thomas001: if you use "send to depot for servicing" then it only uses the depot when required. If you just send it to a depot (w/o ctrl), then it always goes there 16:00:55 *** Priski is now known as Prisk1 16:00:59 <planetmaker> but having one depot order will prevent the train to visit any other depot 16:01:21 <Samu> wow, so slow 16:01:27 <Samu> I asked for it 16:01:35 <Zuu> Samu: By default AIs start 365 days apart from each other with the first one starting 365 days after you (the numan player) 16:01:54 <Samu> I edited it to 1 day for each 16:02:19 <Zuu> If you get bored of wait you can always use the start_ai console command. 16:02:21 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 16:02:54 <Zuu> Be warned though, starting several instances of the same AI at the same time is usually not very good as they often go on the same connections. 16:02:58 <Samu> roadrunner: computing triangulation over 1298 targets, yesterday I made this question, what does this mean? 16:03:22 <Zuu> Samu: Do you konw what triangulation is? 16:03:27 <Samu> no 16:03:43 <Zuu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation 16:04:22 <Samu> will take a look 16:04:38 *** avdg [~avdg@78-22-161-27.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:05:12 <Samu> This article is about measurement by the use of triangles. For other uses, see Triangulation (disambiguation). 16:05:20 <Samu> I suppose im on the right arcticle 16:08:26 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:09:41 <Samu> so complex 16:12:37 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@225.80-202-65.nextgentel.com] has quit [] 16:14:21 <Zuu> My guess is that Roadrunner uses similar or the same ideas as PathZilla. Namely to find out a way to connect all towns using not too many connections but neither too few. 16:14:59 <Zuu> After having constructed this in-memory map, it builds the connections when there is a demand to transport something on the road link. 16:16:25 <Zuu> There awas once an air-only AI that contained a solver for the inverse travel salesmen problem to construct a set of orders visiting all airports in the order that creates the longest route. 16:17:15 <Samu> wrightai? 16:17:31 <Zuu> No, another AI not on online content 16:17:52 <Zuu> The author stopt working on it even before NoAI got into trunk. 16:18:35 <Samu> computing shortest path tree 16:18:40 <Samu> computing minimum spanning tree 16:18:41 <Zuu> PAXLink contains an optimization algorithm to re-define its town-town connections to get the optimal pair selection. If enabled (it is off by default), it will run once a year to see if it can find any improvements. 16:19:16 <Samu> I didn't add PAXLink in this game, sorry 16:19:35 <Samu> I never managed to get it to profit, I thought it wouldn't be worthy 16:19:58 <Zuu> PAXLink isn't as good as many other AIs when it comes to survival on a tight budget. 16:20:32 <Samu> CluelessPlus has started 16:20:33 <Samu> it's white 16:20:36 <Zuu> It contains some interesting and nice parts, but lacks on the economy department. 16:21:20 <Samu> deployed 10 buses 16:23:52 <glx> writeAI was very stupid :) 16:23:59 <glx> *wrightAI 16:24:35 <Zuu> WrightAI is just a demo on how to write an AI. 16:24:37 <Samu> NoCAB has started 16:24:48 <Samu> it's company #2 16:24:57 <Samu> but only now it started building vehicles 16:24:58 <Zuu> NoCAB is really good. 16:25:22 <Samu> RoadRunner doesn't have vehicles yet 16:25:40 <Samu> I put it at #1 slot but 16:25:45 <Samu> it's the slowest 16:26:29 <Samu> Chopper is Zzzz... 16:26:50 <Samu> the game started in 1975 16:27:02 <Samu> I thought there were helidepots already 16:28:37 <Samu> aha, it started, i see helicopters, it's quite fast 16:31:44 <Samu> 1 year has passed. AIAI is best company 16:31:58 <Samu> Clueless is 13th 16:35:51 <AveiMil> The AI's aren't really worth much in terms of competition, they're all really bad in that regard. All they do is clutter up the map. But then again that's expected of AI's, near impossible to make great AI's for such complex games. OpenTTD should allow for giving AI's an advantage over human players, like say everything is 50% the cost. 16:36:24 <AveiMil> It's the only reason Civilization 4 is really fun to play versus the computer, because at Immortal difficulty they get a lot of advantages over the human player. 16:37:34 <Samu> hmm, now that you talk about AI's advantage 16:37:56 <Samu> is it possible for AI's to misbehave? 16:38:03 <SmatZ> misbehave? 16:38:03 <Samu> like 16:38:09 <AveiMil> sabotage? 16:38:12 <Samu> create a train to 16:38:12 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.50.226] has joined #openttd 16:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> AIs can't cheat. 16:38:17 <Samu> sabotage human road vehicles 16:38:23 <SmatZ> it's possible 16:38:25 <Samu> to crash on them 16:38:27 <Samu> wow 16:38:29 <SmatZ> AIs can do the same people can 16:38:30 <AveiMil> Probably possible, but doubt any of these AI can. 16:38:43 <Terkhen> AveiMil: IIRC not giving AIs any advantages was one of the design goals of the NoAI framework 16:38:45 <AveiMil> It's probably very hard to create an AI that do that. 16:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> not deliberately. 16:39:00 <Samu> or tell the town to reconstruct roads? 16:39:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they can do that. 16:39:16 <Samu> that sounds very interesting if it's possible 16:39:23 <nicfer> the old AI was able to terraform without costs 16:39:30 <AveiMil> NoAI framework? 16:39:43 <nicfer> does NoAI allow the same? 16:39:55 <Terkhen> nicfer: no 16:40:35 <Samu> can the AI detect where the Human player is building and do those things that lamers do by blocking construction? 16:40:59 <SmatZ> no 16:41:13 <SmatZ> people can't watch other players neither 16:41:30 <SmatZ> AI know nothing about other companies 16:41:32 <Samu> rondje can detect routes already done by other players 16:41:53 <SmatZ> that's something different 16:41:58 <SmatZ> than you asked 16:42:22 <Terkhen> AIs can inspect the map as much as they want, but they cannot detect when someone else is building 16:43:07 <Samu> hmm interesting 16:44:29 <Samu> can it check the map from 'memory'? I mean, can it memorize the map the way it was some days ago to detect any changes? 16:45:40 <Samu> then the AI would act based on those differences 16:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> theoretically yes, but only in limited ways. 16:46:04 <Samu> like blocking or doing something evil 16:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> you just have not enough opcodes to constantly monitor differences in every part of the map 16:50:09 <Samu> I think I'm cancelling this game, it's way too slow for my computer 16:51:05 <Samu> takes about 10 seconds to advance 1 day in fast forward 16:51:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, tune down the number of opcodes AIs can do. 16:51:56 <Samu> the mouse barely moves 16:53:09 <Samu> it doesn't let me change 16:53:25 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDCAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:35 <Samu> it was using 300 MB memorry 16:54:38 <Samu> grrr 16:55:15 <Samu> gonna test something 16:55:43 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 16:56:08 <Samu> where do I change the date the game ends? 16:56:19 <Samu> can i edit 2051 to something else? 16:56:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't. 16:56:51 <Samu> hmm ko 16:56:59 <Samu> why 2051 and not 2050 like the original? 16:58:13 <SmatZ> ??? 16:58:14 <Rubidium> when in 2050 did the original end? 16:58:43 <Samu> the transition from 2049 to 2050 16:58:46 <SmatZ> lies 16:58:52 <Samu> 31 dec 2049 16:59:20 <Samu> I remember the news saying Top companies that reached 2050, not 2051 16:59:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFDCAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the end date _never_ changed in the history of TTD. because it's hard-coded into the newspaper. 17:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (in TTO it was 2030, though) 17:01:15 <SmatZ> the newspaper's date is 31.12.2050 17:01:30 <SmatZ> or I am very very wrong 17:02:23 <Samu> I still have TTD here 17:02:24 <Samu> i could test it 17:02:33 <Samu> and dosbox 17:04:07 <SmatZ> please do :p 17:04:25 <SmatZ> it might say "Top companies that reached 2050" 17:04:35 <SmatZ> but the game ends at the end of 2050 17:05:05 <Samu> ok, let me try using dosbox, it's been a while 17:12:42 <Samu> ok, in openttd it says Saturday, December 31st, 2050 17:12:58 <SmatZ> not thursday? 17:13:01 <Samu> then after that 17:13:11 <Samu> Top Companies who reached 2051 (Custom Level) 17:13:30 <Samu> so, there's a slight error 17:13:39 <SmatZ> actually, yes, it's saturday 17:13:42 <SmatZ> where is error? 17:13:51 <Samu> newspaper says 2050 17:13:55 <Samu> highscore says 2051 17:14:14 <SmatZ> hmm 17:14:36 <SmatZ> the news have date "THURSDAY december 31, 2050" 17:14:44 <SmatZ> but it should be saturday 17:14:51 <davis> is there any newgrf that allows to terraform lower than sealevel? 17:15:06 <SmatZ> Samu: 2051 makes more sense 17:15:17 <SmatZ> davis: can't be done by newgrf 17:15:39 <davis> alright , thanks D: 17:15:41 <Samu> I can try again 17:16:03 <SmatZ> Samu: I know how openttd behaves :) 17:16:11 <Samu> starting the game at 1st january 2050 17:16:17 <SmatZ> you said you will test TTD 17:16:31 <Samu> says saturday for me 17:16:46 <Samu> Free ...... Saturday, December 31st, 2050 17:16:49 <SmatZ> maybe you have different base set 17:16:53 <Samu> DAILY NEWS 17:16:55 <SmatZ> do you have opengfx? 17:16:58 <Samu> yes 17:17:04 <SmatZ> ok, it's fixed there :) 17:17:33 <Samu> Unnamed acheves 'Businessman' status! 17:17:34 <Samu> :p 17:17:36 <Samu> achieves 17:18:19 <Samu> looks like i gotta download dosbox 17:18:48 <SmatZ> I think you don't have to 17:18:54 <SmatZ> it's a waste of time imo : 17:18:55 <SmatZ> ) 17:20:40 <Samu> 1,38MB 17:21:11 <SmatZ> in TTD, you don't have fast forward 17:21:25 <SmatZ> so unless you have savegame from 2045 or later, it will take hours 17:21:43 <SmatZ> or you can try ttdpatch, but there the end date can be modified 17:22:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-188.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 17:24:13 <Samu> extracting isz file 17:24:47 <SmatZ> isz? 17:25:15 <Samu> iso zip I think 17:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i never noticed before... the calendar in kde4 displays holidays and other special days... 17:28:02 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what does it say for 28-10? 17:28:06 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:10 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: how? all days look the same for me :( KDE4.4.5 17:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the 31st october has a green border, and says "Reformationstag, Winterzeit" when you hover over it 17:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause> kde 4.5.3 i'm using 17:29:46 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:29:47 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 17:30:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:30:08 <SmatZ> Country or region: Not set (Generic English) 17:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in november, the 1st (Allerheiligen), 17th (BuÃ- und Bettag) and 28th (1. Advent) are marked 17:30:11 <SmatZ> maybe that's the problem 17:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> right click -> settings for "digital clock" -> Calendar -> Holidays -> Germany 17:31:36 * SmatZ installs kde-l18n 17:32:13 <SmatZ> wow, it can even use other calendars 17:32:30 * SmatZ jumps to Kislev 5771 17:32:36 <SmatZ> hebrew ftw :) 17:32:39 <planetmaker> sounds like everyone needs it. Or the pen-and-paper calenders won't be able to be used anymore :-P 17:36:56 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:43 <davis> having a lot of newgrf questions today :D. http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=96047 the dock graphic and http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=72943 the habour graphics 17:45:50 <davis> not entirely sure whether the second was ever released 17:46:57 *** fjb is now known as Guest781 17:46:58 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC5E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:56 <planetmaker> the dock is default graphics. Part of the harbour ISR 17:49:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:54:25 *** Guest781 [~frank@p5DDFDCAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:44 <Samu> im unable to run ttd in dosbox, don't know why 17:59:10 <Samu> ran out of stack buffers, wondering what that is 18:05:30 <AveiMil> ooookay, can I change the redicilous town rating drop that occurs if you remove ~6 tiles of trees via NewGRF? 18:06:55 <Terkhen> no 18:07:51 <Alberth> you can reduce the number of trees in the game 18:08:15 <Alberth> in the world generation window 18:08:49 <Samu> aha, problem solved, I had the game installed on a usb drive 18:08:52 <Samu> running ttd 18:09:10 <AveiMil> man, that's so annoying 18:09:32 <AveiMil> there's tree's EVERYWHERE, so i build a road straight through it and town rating turns to appalling 18:09:36 <AveiMil> and I can't build a station 18:09:46 <Alberth> build the station first :) 18:09:57 <AveiMil> yeah, a workaround 18:10:02 <AveiMil> but should raelly be fixed 18:10:19 <Alberth> why, it is so nicely realistic 18:10:27 <AveiMil> no it's not 18:10:41 <AveiMil> it's not realistic and even if it was, that's a horrible argument 18:11:09 <Samu> ok, got TTD running in DosBox, it clearly says top companies who reached 2050 18:11:14 <Samu> not sure about how the game actually ends 18:11:21 <Samu> gonna start playing now 18:11:40 <Alberth> iirc, you get a high score screen at 2050, then you can continue playing 18:12:39 <Alberth> AveiMil: there is also an advanced setting for permissiveness of the city counsil, I always set it to 'permissive' 18:14:19 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@2.124.130.198] has joined #openttd 18:15:22 <Samu> got 1 coal train, now going afk lol 18:15:27 <Samu> waiting for 2050 18:17:03 <Alberth> be sure to buy a new train and/or lay new tracks every now and then :) 18:18:36 <Samu> dosbox ttd and openttd side by side, gonna check if a year takes the same time in both games 18:18:44 <frosch123> and make sure you do not miss 2050. iirc you cannot continue playing after 2050 in ttd, so you won't see the year anymore 18:21:51 <Samu> got both games at 27th september 1950, how do I unpause both at the same time? 18:21:53 <Samu> :p 18:22:12 <Xaroth> does it matter 18:22:19 <Xaroth> unpause one, pause it again 18:22:25 <Xaroth> then unpause the other, and unpause the first 18:22:42 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:43 <davis> thanks planetmaker 18:24:14 <Samu> money difference, it decays more in ttd than ottd 18:24:15 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B66B43.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 18:24:27 <Samu> it's the same game 18:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> wasn't ottd slightly slower than ttd? 18:25:32 <Samu> oh it is 18:25:36 <Samu> ottd is running slower 18:25:47 <planetmaker> terribly slow 18:26:03 <planetmaker> 3 milliseconds slower each tick 18:26:10 <planetmaker> @74*3 18:26:15 <planetmaker> @calc 74*3 18:26:16 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 222 18:26:28 <Samu> new year in ttd 18:26:31 <planetmaker> so 0.2 seconds slower for each game day 18:26:32 <Samu> still december in ottd 18:26:53 <Eddi|zuHause> it'S like 10% 18:26:53 <Samu> january now 18:26:54 <planetmaker> but it's even documented :-) 18:27:03 <planetmaker> in the newgrf specs 18:27:54 <Samu> train running cost in ttd last year -£1,730 vs -£1,723 in ottd 18:27:57 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-160-188.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:51 <Samu> property maintenance is equal 18:28:55 <Samu> -1100 on both 18:29:04 <Samu> income is different 18:29:08 <Samu> way different 18:29:22 <Samu> 34,270 vs 21,485 18:29:58 <Samu> loan interest is also different 18:30:09 <Samu> -1968 vs -1978 18:30:28 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has quit [Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad] 18:31:11 <Samu> ah, I see why 18:31:35 <Samu> loading cargo mechanism is different in ottd, it doesn't use the original 18:35:22 <Samu> weird 18:35:39 <Samu> the income per trip is 19k in ottd but 12k in ttd 18:35:47 <Samu> for the same train 18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21176 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files): 18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by frosch 18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 9 changes by bmnds 18:45:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: swedish - 1 changes by Zuu 18:45:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: turkish - 33 changes by niw3 18:46:55 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:00 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:47:18 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:28 <Hirundo> Rubidium: Did you test FS#4177 in combination with reversing trains ? 18:51:30 <Samu> dosbox plays midi much better 18:51:42 <Samu> just saying :9 18:52:00 <Rubidium> Hirundo: IIRC I did, why are you asking? 18:52:02 <andythenorth> brr 18:52:21 <andythenorth> anyone got any FIRS 0.5.x gameplay feedback? 18:53:02 <Samu> nop :( 18:53:09 <Rubidium> it fails horribly in 0.5.x 18:53:20 <planetmaker> :-) 18:53:23 <Hirundo> What happens to trains, that are (upon tunnel entry) hidden in the old code while they're not hidden in the new code? 18:54:07 <SmatZ> Hirundo: savegame conversion should fix that 18:54:23 <Rubidium> Hirundo: huh? Everything that happens after loading the savegame should be as it was, just at another time 18:54:48 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:55:27 <Alberth> andythenorth: it is a great set, I enjoy playing with it. Very nice industry graphics, a bit static, but very nice nonetheless. 18:55:45 <Samu> i just had an idea for non-dedicated servers 18:55:47 <andythenorth> static? as in, awaiting animation? 18:55:53 <Alberth> yeah 18:55:58 <Hirundo> afterload checks 'if (visible && !should_be_visible)' (for entry), but what about the other way around 18:56:10 <Alberth> didn't try 0.5.3 yet 18:57:04 <Alberth> is there something more specific you want to know? 18:57:40 <Rubidium> Hirundo: the other case, !visible && should_be_visible doesn't matter as it would be made unvisible a (few) tick(s) later 18:57:50 <Rubidium> after all, it's still entering the tunnel, isn't it? 18:57:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: there's a lot left to do, trying to figure out priorities 18:58:46 <Alberth> simpler game play would be more important than moving industries imho 18:58:58 <Hirundo> Except, if the train does not have any wagons, is stopped and you reverse it in exactly the right frame 18:59:09 <Alberth> s/moving/animated/ 19:00:01 <Hirundo> I guess, no one will ever trigger that (if it actually works), though 19:00:21 <Rubidium> Hirundo: please make a testcase for that, so I can confirm a possible fix for it works 19:00:36 <Samu> I'd like to share something but I see you're busy 19:00:57 <Alberth> andythenorth: and the silently dropping of the last few tonnes make playing the set with trucks less enjoyable 19:01:02 <andythenorth> oh yes 19:01:04 <andythenorth> that bug :P 19:01:14 <Hirundo> Rubidium: I'll look at it tomorrow 19:02:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: so simpler game play => FIRS Basic needed? 19:02:34 <Alberth> seems like a wise move to me 19:03:19 <Samu> I have some ideas to provide game continuity for non-dedicated servers whenever the host leaves. 19:03:23 <Alberth> if the set is stable enough to do that 19:04:05 <Samu> another player would take place as host automatically, the remaining players would join that new host 19:04:36 <Alberth> right, let's all use the guy with a slow internet connection :p 19:04:38 <Samu> the server would only close if no one else could be the host 19:05:22 <Alberth> also, different machines may have different ideas whether the host is down, and/or who to move to 19:05:25 <Samu> there could be a verification check for every player when that player first joins the server 19:05:44 <Samu> to see if that player can be a future host if needed 19:05:44 <b_jonas> and then the game would be split to two halves, with some players connected to one half, the other to the other half, and can't be joined again 19:06:17 <b_jonas> if some players could still access the old server I mean\ 19:07:04 <Alberth> Samu: in a network, everybody has a different idea of what is happening 19:08:07 <Samu> wish I could explain myself better 19:08:13 <Alberth> you could make a central point to synchronize those views, but you'd do that at a host, which is down (at least for some of the players) 19:08:47 <Samu> i'm not really savy in these things but I try to give some ideas :) 19:09:22 <Samu> so let's take the example of bittorrent 19:09:28 <Alberth> neither am I, but I have done a few courses network thingies, and these kind of things are HARD 19:10:13 <Alberth> eg every machine in a MP is at a different point in the game 19:10:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21177 /trunk/src/ (language.h strings.cpp): -Codechange: change UniqueLanguageFile into GetLanguage 19:10:52 <Alberth> eg due to network delays 19:11:06 <Samu> ah, the so-called 'latency' 19:12:28 <b_jonas> couldn't users manage this by hand? like, if the server goes down, they figure out what's happened, start a new server, and load the latest savegame? 19:12:37 <b_jonas> that has less potential for mistakes than an automatic system 19:13:37 <Samu> an autosave feature for when the server closes for all clients? 19:14:19 <b_jonas> can't they save manually? 19:14:35 <Alberth> Samu: how do you decide "all clients?" 19:15:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21178 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Codechange: pass the language_id to TranslateTTDPatchCodes as well 19:15:11 <b_jonas> Alberth: no, he means, any client, when the connection is broken, autosaves the game to a file locally 19:15:21 <Samu> I think a client is someone that joins a server, not the one that created the server game 19:15:38 <AveiMil> Did original TTD have multiplayer? 19:15:47 <Samu> yes, up to 4 I think 19:15:51 <Alberth> AIs :) 19:15:54 <b_jonas> Alberth: you mean yuo gave courses on network things? 19:16:17 <b_jonas> AveiMil: ais only. the network one is completely broken. 19:16:51 <AveiMil> my friend claimed we played it MP 15 years ago, but I can't remember 19:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TTO had 2-player mode over serial cable 19:17:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly modem 19:17:48 <Alberth> b_jonas: no, but I followed a few, and implemented a protocol to make synchronous communication between processes. 19:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never tried it myself, but i heard from people that it desynced quite easily. but it din't check sync status, so you could have completely different maps after a while 19:18:33 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=913237#p913237 <-- he, now someone is scared 19:18:50 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:19:16 <Samu> I have a question about those dedicated servers 19:19:28 <Samu> some servers don't pause the game when a player joins 19:19:35 <Samu> yet the game doesn't desync 19:20:05 <Alberth> does it? I didn't know 19:20:09 <Samu> couldn't you base non-dedicated server continuity from there? 19:20:52 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:20:53 <Rubidium> Q: how often do server owners ask about how to port forward stuff? 19:21:07 <planetmaker> Samu: if the server doesn't pause you just have to have a faster client... 19:21:11 <Rubidium> Q: do you think OpenTTD players actually care to get interested into port forwarding stuff? 19:21:43 <Rubidium> Q: how would the other clients communicate with eachother when they can't talk to eachother because the clients haven't set up port forwarding? 19:21:51 <planetmaker> A: 0.8 / actual server 19:21:53 <Samu> no, that doesn't seem to matter if the game checks beforehand who can be eligible to host 19:21:55 <planetmaker> A: no 19:22:03 <Samu> like a test 19:22:11 <Rubidium> Q: how would clients communicate with eachother when a few have IPv4 only, and a few IPv6 only and the server both? 19:22:34 <andythenorth> hmm 19:22:35 <Samu> I have no idea 19:22:49 <andythenorth> the only doubt I have about FIRS industry stability is the stupid forge / blacksmith 19:23:15 <Rubidium> in short: way too much work for way too little benefit 19:23:36 <Rubidium> or, in other words: I'm not going to develop or support it 19:24:38 <Samu> hmm *sad* 19:28:10 <Samu> a bit less elegant idea is to autosave upon server closure and have someone re-host by loading the savegame, but I see this would be problematic for 56k hosts 19:29:32 <Samu> yeah, :( 19:30:17 <Samu> transferring server status to a suitable client looks easy on paper 19:30:21 <Samu> sorry 19:30:40 <planetmaker> Samu: only on the very first thought 19:32:52 <Samu> do you know how some games work? 19:33:10 <Samu> when a player creates a server, it is actually not 'creating it' 19:33:24 <Samu> it's telling the masterserver to host for him 19:33:34 * Alberth knows how a few board games work 19:33:39 <Samu> the masterserver is the host, he becomes a client 19:33:42 <Samu> :p 19:33:55 <Samu> ok sorry 19:34:31 <Alberth> yeah, there are a lot of different ways to organize multi-player internet games 19:35:08 <Alberth> what is feasible depends on allowable network latency, bandwidth, and probably server ownership 19:36:14 <Samu> warcraft 3 has 2 methods for hosting games, mind if I talk about it? 19:36:35 <TrueBrain> I hate games where the hosting is not really done by the 'host'. In result, your lag is always the time it takes you to reach the 'nearest' server the company created (or published) the game from is. If you host the game yourself, you and your (close-by) friends at least can enjoy lag-free games .. (/me looks at CoD) 19:36:50 <Alberth> what's the point of that discussion, I am not very interested in how warcraft does networking 19:37:17 <Alberth> evenink TrueBrain! 19:37:21 <TrueBrain> howdie Alberth :) 19:37:28 *** davis [~b@p5B28B593.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:37 <TrueBrain> 'cloud' computing is such a buzz word :( 19:37:43 <TrueBrain> 'cloud' gaming even worse so 19:38:06 <Alberth> to get money, you need to be buzzword compliant 19:38:14 <TrueBrain> yeah ... 19:38:32 <TrueBrain> and of course it solves a tons of problems if the dedicated server is non-existant, as nobody can hack the CDkey check away 19:38:57 <TrueBrain> but saving your games in the cloud (Assassins Creed 2) is just one step too far :( 19:39:18 <TrueBrain> I tell you, in a year or 2, you don't buy games anymore .. you stream them directly from some cloud 19:39:23 <TrueBrain> when your internet is gone, so are all your games 19:39:30 * TrueBrain is happy LAN Parties are not dead yet 19:40:05 <Samu> can I use DOS midi files on openttd? 19:40:14 <Samu> or, how do I extract them? 19:40:15 <Alberth> games are the less worse part of it, your office documents stored at some other companies server is much more fun :p 19:40:31 <TrueBrain> Alberth: sadly enough, my company does that for other companies 19:40:40 <TrueBrain> we have tons and tons and tons of data from other companies stored .. 19:40:50 <Rubidium> Samu: no 19:40:50 <TrueBrain> always fun when that connection breaks for some reason 19:41:21 <Samu> it will be like electric wires are now at some point 19:41:47 <TrueBrain> I am just really happy OpenTTD is how it is, network wise .. no bullshit :) 19:42:28 <Samu> there's internets at 1GB speed already 19:42:57 <TrueBrain> 'already'? There has been for years :) 19:42:58 <Samu> 250 euros per month 19:43:05 <Samu> no way I'm getting it yet 19:43:11 <Samu> or ever 19:44:31 <Samu> is there a reason I can't use the DOS TTD midi for openttd? they are playing perfect 19:44:38 * Rubidium wonders whether TrueBrain has been paying 250 euros a month the last few years, or is that what you have just a mere 100 Mbps? 19:45:18 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: a few of my clients have 1 and even 10 gbit/s connections 19:45:21 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:45:24 <TrueBrain> I am sure you worked at companies which have the same :) 19:45:44 <AveiMil> Is there a way to see how much a tunnel is going to cost? 19:45:51 <TrueBrain> AveiMil: hit the shift! 19:45:54 <TrueBrain> (works for everything) 19:46:08 <AveiMil> don't see any display 19:46:18 <TrueBrain> if you build something with shift pressed, it gives you how much it would cost 19:46:23 <TrueBrain> (estimate in some cases) 19:46:39 <AveiMil> ah like that 19:46:53 * TrueBrain is still sad the patch never got accepted which gave a hover displaying that info :)) 19:46:56 <AveiMil> shoulda used that before I planted down a 100K 21 tile road tunnel :P 19:47:12 <TrueBrain> yup :) 19:48:21 <Samu> Tunnels should have a max length, you don't really build a tunnel across the whole Earth either 19:48:23 <Samu> hehe 19:48:31 <TrueBrain> I do 19:48:32 <TrueBrain> I love them 19:49:26 <AveiMil> in my NewGRF 19:49:28 <AveiMil> you can't anyway 19:49:30 <avdg> nah, they only have to be expensive :) 19:49:33 <AveiMil> too expensive 19:49:43 <TrueBrain> avdg: negative expensive, like the old days :D 19:50:08 <Samu> like bridges 19:50:27 <Samu> max bridge size, max tunnel size 19:50:29 <TrueBrain> avdg: was always my way to start a map. Build a really long tunnel, and you have enough money to do what ever :) 19:50:31 <avdg> long tunnels exists, so what? :p 19:50:40 <avdg> hehe :p 19:51:15 <Alberth> TrueBrain: so that's why we have a cheat window now :p 19:51:25 <TrueBrain> Alberth: ghehe :D 19:51:38 <Samu> these midis play perfect, are you sure there isn't any way to import them to ottd? 19:52:04 <Alberth> Samu: afaik there is no goood way to play them 19:52:22 <Samu> use dosbox midi emulator, or whatever 19:52:28 <Samu> no idea what they call it 19:52:30 <b_jonas> I do like long bridges, only I wish I could build signals on them 19:52:37 <b_jonas> but it's not too likely that would ever happen 19:52:39 <TrueBrain> b_jonas: don't we all :) 19:53:11 * Zuu thinks it is an interesting challenge 19:53:42 <avdg> what are the problems with extra long bridges? 19:53:44 <Samu> is dosbox opensource or gpl or free, I don't know 19:53:55 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 19:54:04 <Samu> because this little program is playing it 100% correct 19:54:23 <Alberth> signals on bridges is a nice step towards multi-level worlds 19:54:31 <Terkhen> Samu: that question can be easily answered if you go to its homepage and check there 19:54:47 <Alberth> Samu: you heard about a little something called the Internet? 19:55:31 <AveiMil> Coal mine subsidence leaves trail of destruction..., wth 19:55:48 <TrueBrain> lol @ AveiMil 19:55:51 <TrueBrain> those things happen, yes :) 19:56:10 <Alberth> it is a long time ago that I played with disasters enabled 19:56:27 <AveiMil> coal mine gone, road vehicles gone, and the 79K £ road gone 19:56:27 <AveiMil> :( 19:56:37 <Samu> GNU General Public License (GPL) 19:56:48 <b_jonas> yes, I disabled them too now 19:56:52 <b_jonas> because ufos are annoying 19:56:59 *** Yrol [~Yrol@hmbg-5f7746cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:57:05 <Alberth> indeed, very annoying 19:57:13 <Terkhen> Samu: you don't need to notify us of everything you find either... 19:57:22 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:57:30 <TrueBrain> kind of common knowledge :D 19:57:38 <Terkhen> something bad happened in one of my games of original TTD, since then I always disable disasters too 19:57:56 <TrueBrain> the only disaster I always looked forward too, was the UFO 19:57:59 <TrueBrain> and the Zeplin :) 19:58:52 <Yrol> Greetings :o) At the wiki ( http://wiki.openttd.org/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2008_Express_Editions ), what means "Now copy following 9 files from .\dxsdk_aug2007\dxsdk_aug2007\Include\ to <personal folder>\shared\include", specifically: what is that <personal folder> referring to precisely? 19:58:53 <Terkhen> yeah, I was very nervous whenever I saw a zeppelin flying around 19:58:58 <b_jonas> TrueBrain: the small or the large UFO? 19:59:07 <TrueBrain> b_jonas: what, ther eare 2 types? :( 19:59:31 <b_jonas> TrueBrain: yes, the large UFO eats railway tracks, the small ufo eats a bus or something 19:59:40 <TrueBrain> ah; the one eating railtrack 19:59:44 <TrueBrain> always took me for ever to find the jam 19:59:47 <TrueBrain> loved that :) 20:01:25 <Terkhen> :D 20:01:52 <TrueBrain> Yrol: "Extract the openttd-useful.zip file and copy the content to some <personal folder>. " <- based on that, I guess it can be any folder you like 20:01:58 <TrueBrain> just one that you made .. somewhere 20:02:22 <Yrol> Hm... 20:02:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:01 <Yrol> TrueBrain: thankees 20:10:37 <Rubidium> the one you're likely going to configure in visual studio a few steps later 20:11:08 <Samu> an idea for NewGRF that have parameters 20:11:38 <Samu> display them like when you're configuring an AI seetings 20:12:20 <Alberth> did you check how it is done in a recent nightly? 20:12:26 <Rubidium> that idea is so last summer 20:12:42 <Samu> I don't have a nightly 20:12:54 <Samu> so it's already implemented? 20:12:55 <Alberth> duh 20:13:51 <Yrol> Truebrain, i solved it by just copying ALL the files ( not only those 9 mentioned ones ) into a folder which i specified in the projects properties/settings. Now it builds :o) 20:15:33 <AveiMil> How much money do you usually have by 1970 playing normal OpenTTD? 20:15:35 <Alberth> Samu: it helps if you are aware of current state of the art. It helps even more if you actually do something with your ideas instead of just spreading them on the channel into oblivion 20:16:06 <Yrol> AveiMil, that depends on when you start. 20:16:12 <Alberth> no idea, I tend to have a positive amount before 1960, after that money is irrelevant 20:16:22 <planetmaker> ^^ 20:17:01 <Samu> i can't code, I tried building some grf and nfo some months ago and I never figured it out 20:17:07 <AveiMil> ah 20:17:12 <AveiMil> definetly not irrelevant anymore :) 20:17:41 <Yrol> Alberth, indeed, you could aswell say there is a cheat built-in or so 20:18:14 <AveiMil> Coal from 1 mine has 9 transfers until it reaches the power plant on the other side of the map 20:18:15 <AveiMil> haha 20:18:16 <Alberth> AveiMil: depends on your playing style. I prefer to build tracks rather than running a company fighting for money 20:18:44 <AveiMil> yeah, I'm sure a lot of people like that the best 20:18:50 <Alberth> Yrol: there is, but I only use it when testing a patch, not when I play 20:19:01 <Samu> I failed university, it was these things I was studying 20:19:21 <AveiMil> Samu, if you want I can help you make a basic NewGRF 20:19:26 <Yrol> Alberth, oh, i meant it more like "play hard for 20 years, after that do what you want", not an actual cheat 20:19:26 <Alberth> you don't learn coding at the university 20:19:33 <AveiMil> I just learned this 1 week ago 20:19:36 <Samu> i couldn't use linux, couldn't even access a floppy 20:19:39 <AveiMil> after having played OpenTTD for less than 10 hours 20:19:40 <Samu> via linux 20:19:42 <AveiMil> :) 20:20:05 <Alberth> floppies are quite complicated at unices 20:20:15 <Yrol> Alberth, kinda like the vanilla game is cheating itself 20:20:28 <Alberth> :) 20:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> who uses floppies anymore? 20:21:47 <Alberth> yeah, nowadays, linuces are way to simple to use :p 20:22:09 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:11 <Yrol> Samu, in 10 years or so, nobody can acess a floppy anymore, so, dont worry, we all dumb down ;o) 20:22:13 <Alberth> downloading 75 1.44MB disks for Linux Slackware :) 20:22:25 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:36 <Yrol> Alberth, have fun with the copying and installing °grins° 20:23:30 <Alberth> oh, I did. 20:23:39 <Yrol> and take care to not write the wrong discnumber onto the small etiquette 20:23:40 <Alberth> then I bought a SCSI tape drive :p 20:23:56 <Alberth> in my 386 :) 20:24:13 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-195-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:25:03 <Samu> is there a newgrf editor? 20:25:07 <Samu> not a command line 20:25:12 <Samu> that's too difficult for me 20:25:30 <Samu> i have to start somewhere 20:25:58 <Yrol> If it where "that" easy, everybody could make GRF's. 20:26:13 <Samu> GRF Studio 20:26:16 <Samu> hmm :) 20:26:39 <Samu> something a la Scenario Editor 20:26:56 <Terkhen> search for GRF Maker, but it is almost as confusing as using the command line utilities 20:26:59 <Samu> heh, wishfull thinking 20:27:51 <AveiMil> [21:20] <AveiMil> Samu, if you want I can help you make a basic NewGRF 20:28:58 <Samu> nforenum 20:29:05 <Samu> looks like what I need 20:29:45 <AveiMil> am I invisible? 20:29:50 <Samu> no 20:30:17 <Yrol> AveiMil, more caps ;o) 20:30:17 <AveiMil> ok 20:30:54 <Samu> sorry, I'm looking for my post where I tried to make a grf 20:31:35 <Samu> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=48294 20:31:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:31:39 <Terkhen> Samu: you should check nml 20:32:41 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:11 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:33:29 <AveiMil> it's very easy with nml 20:33:40 <AveiMil> once you have all the things you need 20:33:54 <Samu> searching for nml 20:34:14 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html 20:34:23 <AveiMil> I can help guide you through it all if you want to 20:35:36 <Samu> nml doesn't seem to be for windows 20:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's python. it's cross-platform. 20:36:20 *** nicfer1 [~nicfer@190.50.32.143] has joined #openttd 20:37:29 <Yrol> AveiMil, just a quick question as you seem to know about such things: is it possible and if so how ( roughly explained ) to change introduction dates of railcarriage and locomotives? 20:38:14 <Samu> I need to compile nml? 20:38:23 <Samu> the program? 20:38:28 <Samu> I'm so new at this... 20:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no. it's a scripting language, it doesn't need compiling 20:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it's interpreted language 20:39:25 <AveiMil> Yrol, I don't know much but yes, I know THAT's possible :) 20:39:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Yrol: yes, with nml, you simply write something like: "item (vehicle) {introduction_date: date(...)} 20:40:20 <Yrol> ah, okies, thank you both. 20:40:34 <AveiMil> Samu, you need Python for one. -> http://www.python.org/download/ 20:40:40 <AveiMil> Python 2.7 Windows installer (Windows binary -- does not include source) 20:40:45 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.50.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:41:33 <Samu> oh, I knew I was missing something 20:41:38 <AveiMil> and then you need 20:41:51 <AveiMil> Pythong Image Library (or w/e) -> http://effbot.org/downloads/#pil 20:41:55 <AveiMil> PIL-1.1.7.win32-py2.7.exe [838k] [python 2.7] 20:42:19 <AveiMil> Finally you need PLY: http://www.dabeaz.com/ply/ 20:42:23 <AveiMil> Download PLY-3.3 20:42:32 <Samu> wow 15 megabytes 20:42:39 <Samu> I can't 20:42:45 <AveiMil> lol really? 20:42:54 <planetmaker> 15MB? 20:43:06 <planetmaker> that's like 5 openttd downloads 20:43:19 <planetmaker> maybe 20 updates to newgrfs 20:43:20 <Terkhen> and I thought that I had a bad connection :( 20:43:38 <Samu> My connection is fine 20:43:45 <Samu> the problem is â¬â¬â¬ 20:43:52 <planetmaker> ? 20:43:58 <Samu> euros 20:44:04 <planetmaker> still people out there without flatrate? 20:44:16 <planetmaker> or at least a sufficient monthly volume? 20:44:19 <Samu> each megabyte costs 20:44:30 <AveiMil> may daily download rate is like 20 gigabyte 20:44:35 <AveiMil> my* 20:44:56 <planetmaker> well... I used to get along with 6GB / month, but... 20:44:57 <AveiMil> what kind of ISP are you using that charges by the megabyte? 20:45:06 <planetmaker> mobile? 20:45:08 <Samu> I get 100MB free 20:45:10 <Samu> mobile yes 20:45:15 <AveiMil> ah mobile 20:45:16 <Samu> 101-300 12.5 euros 20:45:23 <Samu> 301-1000 25 euros 20:45:29 <Samu> after 1000 it's taxed per megabyte 20:45:46 <planetmaker> doesn't sound cheap 20:45:50 <AveiMil> are you someplace remote where you can't have a proper IPS? 20:45:54 <AveiMil> ISP 20:46:03 <planetmaker> I pay 2⬠/ day for mobile with unlimitted amount 20:46:15 <Samu> the better mobile ISP is Vodafone 20:46:22 <Samu> I'm on Zon 20:46:39 <AveiMil> why do you need mobile ISP? 20:46:39 <Samu> but they're all allike 20:47:00 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:47:11 <Samu> that's a great question 20:47:31 <Samu> we (family) didn't plan at first 20:47:41 <Samu> to use this internet for everyday 20:48:04 <__ln__> I paid 39⬠for a pre-paid 3G usb modem, and that price includes one month of unlimited data, besides the device. 20:48:06 <Samu> it's a bad investment 20:48:32 <Samu> the announced 100MB free was the catch 20:48:52 <Samu> it is seriously impossible to use internet with just that quota 20:49:26 <planetmaker> about time to switch provider, eh? 20:49:27 <Samu> so, we try to use less than 1000MB every month 20:49:44 <avdg> if you use internet at every moment, then yes it is impossible 20:49:55 <avdg> if you use it very rare, then it is possible 20:50:11 <__ln__> i feel the urge to laugh at the situation, but i'll try to stay quiet 20:50:18 <Samu> changing ISP isn't that easy over here 20:50:22 * avdg is fighting with download limits 20:50:38 <ccfreak2k> I find it interesting that openttd defaults to British pounds and metric distances, and yet also defaults to right side driving. 20:50:55 <Samu> we're in a triple play kind of pack thingy on our current ISP 20:51:07 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:51:07 <Samu> television + telephone + internet 20:51:30 <Samu> I am obliged to pay television and one of the others 20:51:38 <Samu> obgligatory 20:51:46 <Samu> I can't have only tv or only telephone or only internet 20:52:06 <__ln__> Samu: can't you just leave the "internet" part unused (and then it's free!), and get another "internet"? 20:52:21 <ccfreak2k> __ln__, or use bonding! 20:52:22 <Samu> not really 20:52:38 <Samu> all the providers locks us to this + that 20:53:29 <Samu> vodafone locks us to phone + something else 20:53:44 <Eddi|zuHause> how the hell can you get by with 100MB a month?!? 20:53:44 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:53:49 <Samu> sometihng else could be tv or internet 20:54:24 <Samu> that's part of the pack, I have cable connection on the other house 20:54:28 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has joined #openttd 20:54:31 <Samu> but it's 300 km away 20:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in every supermarket here they sell shit like "prepaid internet: 15â¬" 20:55:35 <Samu> the 100 MB for mobile is only offered as free for users that already have a triple pack 20:55:38 *** murr4y [~murray@166.84-48-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:40 <Samu> triple play pack or whatever 20:56:49 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 20:57:11 <Samu> it's a business scheme 20:57:34 <Samu> basically customers get locked into one provider for all communications 20:58:01 <Samu> having 2 different providers is much more expensive 20:58:44 <Samu> I'd end having to pay twice the same thing, either TV or Telephone 20:58:59 <Samu> stupid licenses 21:01:03 <Yrol> °hums° "It's a jungle out there... Disorder and confusion everywhere... Poison in the very air we breathe... " 21:01:47 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:02:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but what the heck is the use of an internet that you can't use anyway?!? 21:03:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, 100MB is _nothing_! 21:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> through normal surfing you can't get below 500MB per month... 21:04:21 <Samu> my father had the final decision 21:04:50 <Samu> to have internet on both places without having to get another ISP 21:05:24 <AveiMil> sick 21:05:37 <Samu> the alternative would be a double play pack from another provider 21:06:11 <Samu> that's about 40 euros per month after installation costs and all that 21:06:49 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 21:07:17 <Samu> 2000 on our current connection is 50 euros 21:07:23 <Samu> 2000MB 21:08:02 <Samu> but we had the advantage of not paying activaction, there no installation seriously, and we only pay what we use 21:08:29 <__ln__> and you cannot download a 15-MB file 21:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> really... how can people get anything that is not a flatrate... 21:08:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it's completely insane to worry about "can i download this 15MB file now or not?!" 21:09:08 <Samu> hehe, it sucks 21:09:20 *** murr4y [~murray@166.84-48-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:09:31 <Samu> but in the end it seems cheaper 21:09:45 <Samu> we're waiting for some kind of promotion or 'happy hours' 21:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly... you should just get a 5GB download bill and say "NOW can we have real internet, please?" 21:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't keep statistics, but i'm fairly certain i can't be below 30GB per month... 21:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and i have _really bad_ internet... 21:11:18 <Samu> the cheapest profile with unlimited quota is about 40 euros 21:11:24 <Samu> for mobile connection, of course 21:11:36 <Samu> which requires a triple pack 21:11:45 <__ln__> what about limited but limited to something sane, not 100MB? 21:12:39 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:40 <Samu> there's various profiles 21:13:10 <Samu> we had to pick one and we ended up deciding the free/per MB 21:13:22 <Samu> there's one that is taxed monthly 21:13:30 <Samu> but it also has the per MB 21:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 2342845165+ 79563818 +2765392284+ 1875122418+ 2254596384 21:13:39 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 9317520069 21:13:46 <Samu> the cheapest that has unlimited traffic 21:13:57 <Samu> cuts down the speed to 128 kbps 21:14:03 <Samu> once you go past a quota 21:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> that's 9GB over the last 4 days... 21:14:21 <Samu> and it is 40 something euros per month 21:14:46 <Samu> we never know when we're out of here 21:15:01 <Samu> I could be using 0MB and still paying 40 euros 21:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and you spend 5MB to talk here about not spending 15MB :p 21:15:39 <Samu> yes 21:15:55 <Samu> 8 MB in 5 hours currently 21:16:42 <AveiMil> my mobile phone uses more traffic than that for free every day 21:17:05 <Samu> Portugal sucks 21:18:40 <__ln__> Samu: maybe you shouldn't have given funding to that italian guy after all. 21:20:48 <Samu> we reached 7% debt 21:21:05 <Samu> a few daysago, the new Greece 21:21:45 <AveiMil> well debt is money 21:21:50 <AveiMil> so Portugal must be pretty rich 21:22:14 <Samu> external deficit or something in english 21:24:18 <Samu> we should be like the french, but we aren't. There's riots all over France 21:24:27 <Samu> our riots are barely noticeable 21:31:54 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 21:32:00 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:35:23 *** Yrol [~Yrol@hmbg-5f7746cf.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #openttd [] 21:36:54 <AveiMil> lol, check out this 21:36:55 <AveiMil> http://www.aveimil.com/OpenTTD/images/Coal_network.jpg 21:36:59 <AveiMil> pure Road Vehicles and Ships 21:37:38 <AveiMil> all the coal is delivered at the north west (top left) power plant 21:38:36 <AveiMil> a little bit iron ore (3 mines) to 1 steel mill -> factory -> goods -> city 21:38:43 <AveiMil> rest is only coal 21:40:13 *** Samu [Samu@194.136.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 21:41:44 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, there can't be riots. 21:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because stepping on the grass is forbidden. 21:42:57 <SmatZ> clever 21:44:04 <SmatZ> wow, french government fainted 21:48:51 <Noldo> what? 21:50:46 <Terkhen> http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AC25R20101113 21:50:50 <SmatZ> ummm 21:50:54 <Terkhen> that 21:50:59 <SmatZ> I shouldn't have played pokemon :p 21:51:07 <Terkhen> :D 21:52:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BDD0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:53:31 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-104.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:12 *** thomas001 [~thomas@p5B0F7F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "The Le Figaro" that sounds very wrong. don't they have editors that speak even three words of french?!? 21:58:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.209.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:11 <Terkhen> it is the US edition 21:59:51 <planetmaker> he :-P 22:00:08 <xiong> AveiMil, Your persistence in working road vehicles is commendable. Now try it starting in 1850. 22:00:25 <planetmaker> It's also quite fun to teach English native speakers the pronounciation of "ÃŒ" 22:01:17 <planetmaker> that's as interesting as Japanese and the difference between "l" and "r" 22:01:52 <AveiMil> xiong, hah, nah, this is all testing to balance my mod 22:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the university of Leipzig now offers courses in Saxon for "non-native" students ;) 22:02:09 <AveiMil> but I want all forms of transportation to be equally viable providing the map suits it 22:02:19 <planetmaker> haha @ Eddi|zuHause 22:02:25 <planetmaker> that might be dearly needed 22:02:31 <AveiMil> I don't expect to end up with a company value much higher than 2.5 if I go for pure trains 22:02:35 <AveiMil> 2.5 million 22:02:52 <planetmaker> pounds or yen? 22:02:56 <AveiMil> £ 22:03:49 <SmatZ> planetmaker: interesting, do you know with what letter have Czechs the biggest problems? 22:03:58 <AveiMil> and if I do end up with about 15 million £ company value by end of 1975 I'll know train nerfs are in order :P 22:04:02 <planetmaker> I don't, SmatZ 22:04:05 <SmatZ> :( 22:04:14 <SmatZ> planetmaker: ok, I was just asking :) 22:04:28 <SmatZ> that "l" and "r" problem sounds unbelievable to me :) 22:04:29 <planetmaker> hey, now please tell me :-) 22:04:34 <SmatZ> planetmaker: I don't know :D 22:04:42 <planetmaker> :-O 22:04:43 <SmatZ> I thought you know 22:04:46 <SmatZ> sorry :< 22:04:53 <planetmaker> I assumed yours was a rethorical question :-) 22:05:54 <planetmaker> I'm not even sure that there's that much of a difficult pronounciation issue for Czechs with the German language 22:06:02 <SmatZ> good :-) 22:06:34 <SmatZ> in English movies (mostly US), there are sometimes Russian people with strong accent 22:07:11 <SmatZ> I guess the difference between native Deutsch and Slavic Deutsch is similiar ) 22:07:14 <planetmaker> :-) I can tell usually when a person with a slavic mother tongue speaks, but it's difficult to say which 22:07:28 <SmatZ> :-) 22:08:31 <planetmaker> but your family speaks it quite well :-) 22:08:43 <SmatZ> thanks 8-) 22:10:02 <__ln__> I was wondering in my mind the other day whether all foreign languages should be taught first using phonemic transcription and not regular letters⊠22:10:25 <planetmaker> what purpose would it serve, __ln__ ? 22:10:54 <xiong> __ln__, All languages should be written in IPA. That's obvious. 22:11:21 <SmatZ> xiong: how many letters does IPA have? 22:11:35 <AveiMil> planetmaker, default Road Vehicle properties, where can I find them? 22:11:42 <AveiMil> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0RoadVehicles#Sort_vehicle_list_20_ <- can't make much sense of the info there 22:12:03 <xiong> ...except for the undeniable superiority of /hanzi/, in which *meaning* is represented, rather than mere sound; and people who speak ten different languages can comprehend. 22:12:03 <AveiMil> I found all the properties in action0properties.py 22:12:06 <Terkhen> hmmm... why mountainous map generation never uses the last height level? 22:12:09 <AveiMil> but where can I view their default values? 22:12:31 <__ln__> planetmaker: Because there is always a number of people who do not grasp the pronunciation rules properly. For example in Spanish, 'h' is not pronounced at all, but certain people will pronounce it nonetheless because they are influenced by how it is written. 22:12:42 <xiong> SmatZ, I have no idea. About 100, I'd guess, if you refer only to primitives. They combine. 22:13:22 <Terkhen> AveiMil: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/table/engines.h 22:13:30 <planetmaker> __ln__: but how does first introducing the phonetic alphabet or way help with that? 22:13:51 <xiong> Only if you think sound is more important than meaning. 22:13:52 <planetmaker> AveiMil: as such the same place as before... you should really bookmark that 22:14:07 <SmatZ> xiong: interesting 22:14:08 <Terkhen> __ln__ has a point; that's one of my biggest problems with english 22:14:38 <__ln__> planetmaker: That way they'd learn how to speak first, and only later confuse themselves with rules of spelling. 22:14:54 <planetmaker> It's just a matter of where you start, I think 22:15:00 <AveiMil> mindfart! 22:15:05 <AveiMil> I had that bookmarked 22:15:17 <Terkhen> in fact, my pronunciation is far worse when I'm reading 22:15:22 <planetmaker> and yes, sure, getting the pronounciation of certain letter combinations right... is not always easy 22:15:24 <xiong> Not only Chinese people; but Koreans and Japanese can read at least a subset of /hanzi/. You only need about 5000 characters to read a daily newspaper. Most educated people are not familiar with much more than 10K. 22:15:47 <planetmaker> ask any random German to pronounce the English "th" and you'll surely end up with the English equivalent of either "z" or "s" 22:15:57 <b_jonas> or "f" or "v" 22:16:04 <b_jonas> or "t" or "d" 22:16:47 <xiong> ... and if that sounds like a lot compared to 26 letters (for some value of 26), then remark that none of those letters mean anything and you need to learn how to *combine* them into words, each of which must be memorized individually -- spelling and meaning. 22:16:49 <__ln__> i zink so too 22:17:05 <planetmaker> though interestingly sometimes in Scotland I wondered... it nearly sounded to me like a German accent what was genuine Scottish accent ;-) 22:17:13 <SmatZ> :) 22:18:19 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA1EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:18:27 <xiong> Compare /hanzi/, which is written with only about 8 basic strokes (for some value of 8, depending on pedant) from which you construct your characters. And don't forget that all but the simplest characters are combinations of the simpler ones. 22:20:23 <__ln__> There are also people (even smart people) who in their ignorance think that this whole concept of phonemes and phones and such is something philosophical, metaphysical, while the written text is what's concrete. 22:20:35 <xiong> When CJK people, here in US, go to a restaurant (unless they are all, including the waiter, from the same town), they will speak English, because that is common to all; and the waiter will leave a pad of paper on the table. The guests will write their orders on the pad themselves, in /hanzi/; because that is common to them all. 22:22:05 <xiong> This practice is not universal, of course -- nothing is -- but it is done; and shows the clear advantage of symbols that encode meaning rather than sound. 22:22:29 *** avdg [~avdg@78-22-161-27.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the worse problem than mispronunciation is actually misemphasise... 22:23:08 <xiong> What you may find more astonishing is that I have seen Chinese people, both native to the same town, speaking the exact same dialect of the same language, unable to be sure of each others' meanings, even face-to-face. 22:23:24 <SmatZ> interesting 22:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> if you put the emphasise in the wrong place, people get _really_ difficult to understand 22:23:58 <xiong> That is because so many Chinese languages abound in homonyms. This is the basis for what Westerners call "crosstalk", which would be extremely funny if all the jokes were not 150 years old. 22:24:04 *** avdg [~avdg@78-22-161-27.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:24:38 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: except if the speaker has the same native language as you do, then it's understandable but hurts the brain. 22:25:24 <b_jonas> meh, you people and all your hard to speak languages 22:25:36 <xiong> So, I have seen people standing on the sidewalk, in the middle of a verbal convo, sketch characters on the palm of the left hand with the forefinger of the right. It happens very quickly and to understand it, you must know the context of the convo and the correct stroke order of the character. But there it is. 22:26:02 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: but indeed misplacing the stressed syllable in a word is an easy way to distract people. 22:26:11 <planetmaker> __ln__: it's really hard to intentionally mis-stress your mother tongue 22:27:06 <__ln__> true 22:27:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what's evil is using greek-derived words. then people will interpret your mis-emphasise of them as being an uneducated fool... 22:28:03 <ccfreak2k> Is there some kind of setting to make trucks that are loading move up if the truck in front of them moves? 22:28:08 *** Samu [Samu@42.61.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 22:28:21 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:43 <xiong> It's even worse on the phone; nothing can be sketched. If I want to tell someone who I am, I say, /wo shr xiong mao de xiong/. This says, "I am /xiong/-sound as in panda bear". I prefer to think of myself as an American black bear but this is the conventional way to disambiguate my name from all other /xiong/-sounding characters. 22:30:14 <b_jonas> planetmaker: yes, it takes a genious like Egressy Béni to make everyone do that 22:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said spelling your name over the phone is easier in european languages :p 22:30:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 22:30:52 <Samu> hi all again, TTD game testing is in year 1971 22:31:19 <AveiMil> Oil well tends to run out after a few years, do Oil Rig suffer the same fate? 22:31:24 <AveiMil> (in the game :) 22:31:39 <Samu> you mean in the original? 22:31:39 <SmatZ> no 22:31:43 <AveiMil> OpenTTD 22:31:59 <__ln__> hmm, since I'm not familiar with phonemic transcription of german: do vier and fÃŒnf begin with the same phoneme? 22:32:03 <AveiMil> so Oil Rigs don't run out then 22:32:09 <AveiMil> is there any way to modify that with NewGRF? 22:32:14 <planetmaker> __ln__: yes 22:32:14 <AveiMil> so they behave as oil wells? 22:32:17 <planetmaker> f 22:32:25 <planetmaker> but the vowel is different 22:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> AveiMil: yes. 22:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: yes, f and v sound the same. 22:33:33 <planetmaker> __ln__: I think the "rule" somewhat is: if a word with "v" is of germanic origin, it's pronounced like "f". Otherwise like "w" 22:33:46 <planetmaker> Vase vs. vier for example :-) 22:34:16 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i never really thought about that... 22:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of those things that you do instinctively right as a native speaker 22:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the f-v problem is of course one of the big difficulties when learning to write. 22:36:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the "Vogel-V" and "Fuchs-F" 22:36:26 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:36:48 <Samu> interesting difference 22:37:19 <__ln__> finns tend to pronounce english 'v' too much like /w/, although the correct english /v/ is closer to /f/... 22:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> it's one of the things mr. Duden did not get right 22:37:35 <planetmaker> __ln__: germans don't make a difference between w and v ;-) 22:37:57 <planetmaker> also not in English :-P 22:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: english 'v' is something inbetween /w/ and /f/ 22:38:30 <Samu> in original ttd, the oil tanker has a capacity or 2,100 litres, but in open ttd, it has 21,000 litres 22:38:48 <planetmaker> vat ve see here is train navigation 22:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's an error in TTD 22:39:39 <planetmaker> Samu: I doubt that. As litres always come in multiples of 1k 22:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's "21 units" in both, but the conversion factor is misrepresented 22:40:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: if you look closely, you should see that it says "21,00" 22:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> missing a 0 22:41:25 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: and in between /w/ and english /v/ is the finnish v. (which has an IPA symbol but i'm lazy to find it right now) 22:42:10 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 22:42:13 <Samu> 21,00? 22:42:33 <Samu> it clearly says 2,100 unless I'm missing something 22:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: maybe it's version dependent... 22:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: but the actual capacity hasn't changed. only the display string 22:43:39 <Samu> 22,000 litres for the ship, 2,100 for the road vehicle 22:44:00 <Samu> 3,000 for wagon 22:44:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: yes, but 2,100 litre is more like a bathtub, not a truck ;) 22:44:03 <Noldo> I've had to think about finnish pronausiation lately, because the kid is having trouble learing to speak 22:44:04 <Samu> hehe, interesting 22:45:38 <Noldo> it's suprisingly hard to tell the difference between some of the consonants 22:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: btw, there is some difference between "w" as /w/ and "v" as /w/. try "Waage" vs. "vage" 22:47:11 <planetmaker> ehm... where? 22:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "v" in "vage" is slightly stronger... 22:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause> at least in my perception... 22:47:47 <planetmaker> maybe because _you_ have an accent ;-) 22:48:00 <SmatZ> :) 22:48:09 * avdg loves that accent 22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i certainly have very little accent ;) 22:48:34 <planetmaker> :-P 22:48:44 <Eddi|zuHause> (if you compare it to other people growing up in the same area :p) 22:48:45 <SmatZ> in CZ, there can be a big difference between people living 100km from each other 22:48:51 <SmatZ> in accent 22:49:00 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:49:03 <planetmaker> SmatZ: so it can be here :-) 22:49:07 <SmatZ> :-) 22:49:17 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: even 10km may make a really huge difference here... 22:49:21 <SmatZ> hehe :) 22:49:24 <SmatZ> true 22:49:25 <avdg> here it can mean a big difference in language in less then 10 km 22:49:32 <SmatZ> ok :P 22:49:35 * SmatZ shuts up :) 22:49:50 <planetmaker> I had one interesting experience when I moved to Jena years ago: a guy stopped with his car next to me and asked me .... *something* 22:49:56 <SmatZ> I live in the centre of CZ, not on the czech/moravia border :) 22:49:57 <planetmaker> hu? 22:50:00 <planetmaker> *something* 22:50:02 <planetmaker> hu? 22:50:04 <SmatZ> :-D 22:50:06 <planetmaker> third try also failed 22:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> around 120 years ago, Mr. Duden was a school teacher, and in his (local) school he hat pupils which spoke SEVEN different dialects. 22:50:12 <planetmaker> and he left quite frurstated 22:50:15 <SmatZ> :-D 22:50:17 <planetmaker> He obviously spoke German ;-) 22:50:28 <planetmaker> But I didn't understand a single sylable. 22:50:33 <planetmaker> I guess he was Saxonian 22:50:40 <b_jonas> or Dutch? 22:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: in Thuringia, you sometimes have two neighbouring villages. 22:50:54 <b_jonas> or do native Germans understand that? 22:51:04 <planetmaker> Weeks later - I pondered a lot about what that was about - I guess he asked me for the next telphone... 22:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and inhabitants can't understand each other 22:51:11 <planetmaker> it was just around the corner. 22:51:12 * avdg is still missing the 'localized' streets in his and other towns in his country 22:51:20 <SmatZ> sometimes, it's not only about dialects, but also about different words for something 22:51:27 <planetmaker> b_jonas: I can tell clearly the difference. 22:51:38 <planetmaker> I understand 25% 22:51:47 <planetmaker> roughly. Depends on context etc pp 22:51:54 <avdg> smatz: thats what we call dialects ;-) 22:52:06 <SmatZ> people speaking hantec (moravian dialect) can say a sentence, without me understanding a word 22:52:08 <planetmaker> yeah... 22:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: depends on if they actually try to make themselves understood 22:52:28 <SmatZ> avdg: ok :) I thought dialects are mostly about different pronounciation :) 22:52:33 <SmatZ> sorry 22:52:40 <planetmaker> let me look through my bookmarks. There's an interesting series of studies by the university of Regensburg or so... on German dialects 22:52:42 <b_jonas> sure, and technical contexts like computers or mathematics are easier to understand in French or English, 22:52:45 <avdg> np, the meaning can be wide 22:52:52 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: if you walk past a group of swiss guys talking their native valley-dialect, you have _no_ chance to understand anything... 22:53:23 <b_jonas> mathematical texts in fact use a very small vocabulary with every composed word mirror translated to all langauges, which makes reading foreign language mathematical texts easy 22:53:25 <planetmaker> found something else: http://accent.gmu.edu/browse.php 22:53:38 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: right 22:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it wants me to install quicktime... 22:55:27 <planetmaker> http://www.philhist.uni-augsburg.de/lehrstuehle/germanistik/sprachwissenschaft/ada/runde_1/f01/ <-- I had been looking for this atlas of the German language 22:55:49 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes... it's audio. obviously in quicktime. bad luck for you then ;-) Really worth it, though 22:55:59 <avdg> hmmm, they are missing many dialects for my language -_ 22:56:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f652c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:34 <avdg> they even missed my city 22:57:05 <Rubidium> cool, frosch123's client's disconnect reached the IRC server before his parting message. So he's getting even quicker lately :) 22:57:57 <SmatZ> :-) I thought the very same :) 22:58:08 <SmatZ> also, I thought you are already sleeping, Rubidium ;) 22:58:15 <b_jonas> planetmaker: is that like http://bigthink.com/ideas/21360 (from strangemaps)? 22:58:59 <Rubidium> SmatZ: nah, just watching some movie or something 22:59:05 <planetmaker> b_jonas: similar 22:59:26 <planetmaker> the representation is IMHO better than the one on the map you link 22:59:27 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:13 <planetmaker> as the dot density gives you also gradients and a visual clue to the percentage and also the 'minority' opinions in regions 23:00:56 <Samu> I spotted more differences 23:01:10 <Samu> I can refit aircraft to all cargo except oil 23:01:18 <Samu> and mail 23:01:29 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:02:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 23:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the known "fixes" ;) 23:03:23 <b_jonas> makes sense because there aren't separate oil planes in the set 23:03:41 <b_jonas> so if someone wants to waste their money on oil planes, let them do it 23:04:07 <b_jonas> and a plane of all mail totally makes sense to me 23:04:16 <b_jonas> it can even earn a lot 23:04:26 <Rubidium> oh, so because *someone* might want to do something it must be enabled? 23:04:30 <Rubidium> by default? 23:04:50 <Samu> if it is a clone 23:05:08 <Samu> first feature I see removed 23:05:16 <Samu> so far I've seen additions 23:05:36 <Rubidium> then you've missed quite a lot of the crash the AI features 23:05:57 <Rubidium> or the leave the level crossing light turned on feature 23:06:21 <Samu> bug fixes? 23:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: it's one of the remnants from "let people play the original game" policy that was in effect for a long time 23:06:33 <avdg> bugs are also features at some point ;-) 23:06:37 <Rubidium> or the get easy money by building long tunnel feature 23:06:56 * avdg likes ^ 23:06:59 <Samu> oh, fixing bugs is common sense 23:07:14 <Samu> at least most believe so 23:07:42 <b_jonas> like fixing the water build cheat bug, sure 23:08:08 <Samu> i don't know the cheats 23:08:27 <Samu> when I played ttd I didn't know there was cheats 23:08:30 <Rubidium> Samu: point is, aircraft transporting oil was reported as a bug. Ergo, it's a fixed bug 23:08:36 <SmatZ> water build cheat bug? 23:08:37 <b_jonas> maybe there should be an easily reachable big switch in the gui that sets the options to full compatibility versus more fun 23:09:03 <SmatZ> [00:08:41] <Rubidium> Samu: point is, aircraft transporting oil was reported as a bug. Ergo, it's a fixed bug <== I really can't say I like that change :p 23:09:14 <Samu> I can't refit aircraft to oil in ttd either 23:09:18 <SmatZ> that should be done by a newgrf :p 23:09:22 *** Lakie` [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 23:09:35 <Samu> i said I can refit aircraft to everything except oil and mail 23:09:38 <SmatZ> (I know it wasn't possible at that time) 23:09:53 <Rubidium> SmatZ: build depot, destroy depot -> cheap water clearing; build an ownership thingy and it doesn't flood 23:10:16 <b_jonas> SmatZ: in ttd, when you destroy a ship depot or a dock, you get soon to be flooded dry squares instead of water. this allows you to raise water much more cheaply. 23:12:28 <Samu> refiting cargo ship is exactly equal to ttd 23:12:32 <SmatZ> Rubidium: oh that 23:12:43 <SmatZ> I never used that :) 23:13:11 <__ln__> err wtf, i just accidentally found a key shortcut to play the clips backwards in quicktime. 23:13:11 <b_jonas> I used it a lot 23:13:19 <SmatZ> :) 23:13:21 <b_jonas> even though I consider it a cheat 23:13:32 <b_jonas> but I cheated filthily by blocking AIs too 23:13:50 <b_jonas> okay, I still do that 23:13:55 <SmatZ> __ln__: interesting, with all those p-frames 23:14:01 <SmatZ> :P 23:15:10 <Samu> ttd version i have is 2.01.119 23:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: this is probably the dialect-divide that causes the most trouble: http://www.philhist.uni-augsburg.de/lehrstuehle/germanistik/sprachwissenschaft/ada/runde_0/karten/17_45.jpg 23:15:43 <Samu> maybe different version of ttd use different refits 23:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the aircraft refit things is a game-rebalancing feature 23:16:35 <planetmaker> that's confusing indeed 23:17:36 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: is it? 23:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: yes, aircraft seemed to be overpowered. 23:18:33 <Samu> even at 1/4 of normal cargo? 23:18:33 <b_jonas> you don't enable the fast aircrafts option, do you? 23:19:26 <Samu> nop 23:19:36 <andythenorth> good night 23:19:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't use aircraft usually. 23:19:41 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:43 <planetmaker> night andy 23:19:45 <planetmaker> :S 23:19:51 <Samu> hmm another little difference 23:20:11 <Samu> the capacity factor on refit include total units passenger + mail 23:20:19 <Samu> on ottd 23:20:24 <Samu> on ttd it's only passenger 23:21:06 <Samu> help me on my english 23:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that i know nothing of. 23:21:23 <Terkhen> good night 23:21:29 <Samu> ok an example, let me build an airport again, sec 23:22:30 <Samu> coleman count 23:22:41 <Samu> it's normal cargo is 65 + 8 23:22:56 <Samu> when refitting to goods, which is available on both ttd and ottd 23:23:13 <Samu> it becomes 32 crates of goods in ttd and 36 on ottd 23:23:30 <Samu> ttd = 65/2 23:23:39 <Samu> ottd = (65+8)/2 23:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you should put this stuff on a wiki page. "differences in TTD and OpenTTD" 23:26:46 <b_jonas> that's exactly what I thought 23:26:56 <b_jonas> then if someone wants to work on compatibility, he can do it 23:27:12 <Samu> well we were talking about planes being too good 23:27:31 <Samu> seems like ottd planes carry a bit more, heh 23:27:38 <__ln__> oh no, the discussion is drifting from phonetics towards some transportation game 23:29:33 <AveiMil> planetmaker, does FEAT_CARGOS contain all the cargo's for all climate sets?? 23:29:58 <planetmaker> what is feat_cargos? 23:30:19 <AveiMil> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#features 23:30:37 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_CARGOS, Oil, 3) { property { penalty_lowerbound: 40; single_penalty_length: 255; pricefactor: 6192; } } 23:30:53 <AveiMil> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=CargoDefaultProps <- I used that as a reference 23:31:10 <planetmaker> you'll have to use the cargo labels 23:31:14 <AveiMil> but I just wonder what the proper Id's are for the various sets as in those tables they have the same ids 23:31:33 <planetmaker> Oil as you quote certainly won't work 23:31:42 <AveiMil> it certainly does :) 23:31:52 <planetmaker> interesting 23:32:24 <AveiMil> the ones I've edited all worked when I used the ID's listed here: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=CargoDefaultProps 23:32:26 <planetmaker> but I don't know. I've not yet used that feature 23:32:54 <AveiMil> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/table/cargo_const.h <- are those the complete ID list? 23:33:00 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.104.100] has joined #openttd 23:33:37 <planetmaker> probably. But only of the default cargos 23:33:57 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:34:08 *** Yexo [~Yexo@153-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 23:34:11 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 23:36:34 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe29dc00-226.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:37:20 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.116.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:37:58 <AveiMil> can't make any sense of that site 23:38:15 <AveiMil> do you know how I can do this? 23:38:24 <AveiMil> <@planetmaker> you'll have to use the cargo labels <- how do you mean? 23:40:20 *** b_jonas [~x@dsl51B66B43.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:40:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21179 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#4201] (r69): if the main toolbar's location is configurable, why isn't the statusbar's location configurable? 23:40:44 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=CargoDefaultProps <-- AveiMil 23:41:32 <AveiMil> yeah I linked you that page further up 23:41:46 <avdg> lol @very old commit reference 23:41:53 <AveiMil> but the ID's for temparte/artic/tropic repeat 23:42:04 <AveiMil> so how do I know what ID is what beyond 'Valuables'? 23:43:03 <AveiMil> item(FEAT_CARGOS, Valuables, 10) <- can you use the 'Name' instead of the 10 there? 23:45:06 <Yexo> no, you check in which climate you are to determine which cargos are in which slot 23:45:17 <Yexo> and even that isn't enough if you want it to work with industry grf sets 23:46:05 <AveiMil> so when I choose tropic it just replaces "Valuables" with diamonds 23:46:26 <AveiMil> so I onyl need to defeine 11 cargo types for all the default climate sets 23:47:37 <AveiMil> Valuabes = Gold = Diamonds = Plastic 23:47:49 <planetmaker> I take the diamond part there, please 23:48:21 <AveiMil> looks like that's how it works 23:48:31 <AveiMil> different names, same stats for each climate 23:48:45 <Samu> another difference :p 23:49:14 <Samu> i can't refit manley morell 23:50:46 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-30-106.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:15 <Samu> in this case, what you did was adding a feature :) 23:54:17 <AveiMil> you talkin to me? 23:54:46 <xiong> AveiMil, I hope you are taking FIRS into account. I wouldn't want to play without FIRS. 23:55:16 <AveiMil> What is FIRS? 23:57:29 <Samu> Passengers production at Oilrig decreased 34%, lol 23:58:29 <AveiMil> xiong? 23:58:58 <xiong> AveiMil, Um, something-industry-replacement-set. 23:59:06 <xiong> Very popular NewGRF. 23:59:18 <xiong> Extremely rocks. 23:59:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd