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04:49:05 <planetmaker> good day / morning / afternoon / night /... :-) choose any 04:50:07 <supermop> well it should be good morning to you then, as I believe you are in Europe 04:50:17 <planetmaker> quite early one, yes 04:50:21 <supermop> i'll take it as a good evening to myself 04:51:10 <planetmaker> I guess that I'm awake now I should have breakfast :-) 04:51:35 <supermop> ight as well get a good start to the new day 04:52:08 <planetmaker> jo 04:52:57 <supermop> given the euro-centric audience of the game, i alays seem to pick the worst times to log on here 04:53:18 <planetmaker> he... 6am is the most silent one, I guess, yes 04:53:35 <planetmaker> though there are more from the Americas 04:53:49 <supermop> i cannot imagine anyone wanting to talk about nfo at that time of day 04:54:01 <planetmaker> :-D 04:54:25 <planetmaker> you can as usual, only know when you have asked the question :-P 04:54:51 <supermop> i dont notice as many american coders and patch makers as europeans on the forum though 04:55:22 <planetmaker> quite true, yes 04:56:05 <planetmaker> though pikka is in Australia and our whale in Canada 04:56:24 <planetmaker> as is maybe our amiable forum host in the US a lot 04:56:28 <supermop> thats what we get for neglecting our train system here: no one wants to play a game about it 04:56:41 <supermop> yeah, 04:57:42 <supermop> to be honest i've never played a non-temperate game 04:58:04 <supermop> in over 15 years 04:58:47 <planetmaker> :-O 04:58:48 <planetmaker> you miss a lot :-) 04:59:27 <planetmaker> the other climates are quite worthwhile and all have their unique charm 04:59:46 <planetmaker> especially if not flattened out by using the same newgrf everywhere ;-) 05:00:10 <supermop> yeah 05:00:11 <supermop> well 05:00:24 <supermop> i only played tto until around 2004 05:00:42 <supermop> part of that time i was living in england, so it seemed relevant 05:01:15 <supermop> started playing ottd around 6.5 05:01:18 <supermop> 0. 05:01:57 <planetmaker> he :-) there was only 0.6.0 ... 0.6.3 ;-) 05:02:04 <planetmaker> </smartass> 05:02:12 <supermop> i guess it was .3 then 05:02:56 <supermop> i do really like the original tto trains though 05:03:17 <supermop> with maybe a few metros added and some emus, 05:03:18 <planetmaker> I don't quite recall. How do they compare to the TTD trains? 05:03:26 <supermop> i think it would be a great balanced set 05:03:58 <supermop> the same, one or 2 more early steam engines 05:04:09 <supermop> tto started in 1930 by default 05:04:12 <supermop> not 1950 05:04:18 <planetmaker> yeah 05:04:35 <planetmaker> well... That's what I try to add with OpenGFX+ 05:04:43 <supermop> yeah 05:04:44 <planetmaker> some slight extensions to the default 05:04:52 <supermop> its a great idea 05:04:56 <planetmaker> without changing the basics 05:05:21 <supermop> i really like the ogfx+ concept 05:06:00 <planetmaker> coworkers are merrily welcome 05:06:04 <planetmaker> ;-) 05:06:22 <supermop> well i still cant figure out how to code haf of what i have drawn 05:06:37 <planetmaker> have you ever risked a look at nml? 05:06:45 <supermop> well 05:07:03 <supermop> i figure i should at least finish mlss in nfo 05:07:26 <planetmaker> what was mlss? 05:07:27 <supermop> i dont understand html either, so i would be starting from scratch 05:07:39 <supermop> modular locomotive shed stations 05:07:43 <planetmaker> nml has nothing in common with html 05:07:57 <planetmaker> oh... ok right :-) Then NML is also still a bad idea 05:08:06 <supermop> hehe 05:08:29 <supermop> the next things i want to do are a town grf and a railtype grf 05:08:38 <supermop> nml might be better for those 05:09:01 <planetmaker> railytypes werk perfectly. towns not yet 100% 05:09:06 <supermop> but i am going to want to "break" rules in those as well 05:09:23 <planetmaker> define rule breaking ;-) 05:09:43 <supermop> well in mlss its wierd sprite sizes and bounding boxes 05:09:56 <planetmaker> :-) 05:09:59 <supermop> visually cheating 05:10:11 <supermop> when i get to a train grf, 05:10:13 <planetmaker> that's what newgrf-ing is about 05:10:19 <planetmaker> cheating visually 05:10:41 <supermop> i will probably want to make every car articulated with an invisible part 05:10:53 <supermop> to gain extra length 05:10:59 <planetmaker> look at nutracks subway tracks 05:11:10 <supermop> well 05:11:29 <planetmaker> you might want to talk to eddi about that. I think he has something in his sleeve up to that end 05:11:54 <supermop> i was talking to him a few nights ago about varaction 2 05:12:12 <supermop> right now i am trying to make tiles with smart fences 05:12:24 <supermop> station tiles 05:12:32 <planetmaker> varaction2 indeed helps. with nearby tile reference 05:12:38 <supermop> yeah 05:12:48 <planetmaker> you need to check the tile class. variable 61(?) 05:12:59 <supermop> i think i have a check that will work 05:13:30 <supermop> then mask out the last 4 numbers, cCpP, to be only 0 or 1 05:13:37 <supermop> then a set of ranges 05:13:45 <planetmaker> 67 05:13:56 <planetmaker> yeah 05:14:04 <planetmaker> that sounds like what I'd do 05:14:05 <supermop> so that it can see if any edge of the tile is the edge of the station 05:15:13 <planetmaker> doesn't sound overly complicated. Though in NFO it might get lengthy 05:15:14 <supermop> now i have to figure out how to take the 4 fence sprites in my action 1, and put them into action 2 sets to be used by the varaction 2 05:15:50 <planetmaker> easy way: make it one sprite. the long way where I have no experience with: sub-sprites 05:15:58 <supermop> yeah 05:16:29 <supermop> i was hoping i could assemble the sprits for each range just from 4 basic sprites 05:16:48 <supermop> rather than make a sprite for all 16 possibilities 05:17:42 <supermop> i might be able to get away with 6 sprites, not including groundsprites 05:18:10 <planetmaker> I think you can easily go via property 09, sprite layout 05:18:18 <supermop> in the action 00? 05:18:24 <planetmaker> yep 05:18:39 <supermop> every one was telling me that 00 had nothing to do with this 05:18:42 <supermop> hmm 05:18:44 <supermop> so 05:18:48 <planetmaker> This controls what sprites are displayed, where they are displayed, and in what order. 05:18:53 <supermop> yeah 05:19:11 <supermop> but can it define various sets of the same sprites? 05:19:55 <supermop> like if i say layout sprites for 16 tiles, 2 views per tile 05:20:45 <planetmaker> yes. And then use the callback property 0B to select the layout you need 05:21:02 <supermop> uh whats that? i have to look that up 05:21:07 <planetmaker> the callback then is accessible in the varaction2 chain 05:23:00 <supermop> where can i read about this callback? on the wiki? 05:23:20 <planetmaker> yes 05:23:32 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Callbacks 05:23:33 <supermop> under the action 00 section? 05:24:21 <supermop> these start at 10... 05:24:23 <supermop> hm 05:24:25 <planetmaker> you need to enable the callback via action0, property 0B. And then in your varaction2 chain, you query the current callback, then its result. ... 05:24:35 <supermop> ok 05:25:55 <supermop> so if my varaction2 asks for sets numbered 0-F, this call back will provide the action 00 tiles as those sets? 05:26:30 <supermop> i am going to read the calllback tutorial 05:28:24 <planetmaker> good idea :-) 05:28:46 <planetmaker> basically the callback returns (in one or another form) the tile layout 05:29:16 <supermop> so do i need 16 action 00s, or one action 00 with 16 tiles? 05:33:10 <planetmaker> you specify all layouts in one action0, property 09 05:33:21 <planetmaker> if I understand that correctly. 05:33:27 <supermop> ok 05:33:38 <supermop> its starting to make sense here 05:34:03 <supermop> i am pretty amazed that i have been able to code anything so far 05:34:36 <planetmaker> I wonder the same about me every day, too ;-) 05:35:24 <supermop> but i couldnt find anyone to code the stuf i drew, so i had to learn 05:35:27 <supermop> somehow 05:36:00 <supermop> is there any desire to make bridge types? 05:36:25 <planetmaker> there definitely is. But no-one who actually tackles it 05:36:43 <supermop> i would like to make a bridge grf eventually 05:36:54 <planetmaker> bridge types. road types. Both would be really nice 05:36:58 <supermop> but i think alot of the parameters i want arent possible 05:37:00 <planetmaker> Also town types 05:37:04 <supermop> yes 05:37:22 <supermop> i think i could be interesting to code industries like towns 05:37:36 <planetmaker> towns != houses :-) 05:37:42 <supermop> i know 05:37:45 <supermop> but 05:37:58 <supermop> an industry is a collection of buildings 05:38:13 <planetmaker> still it's monolithic 05:38:24 <planetmaker> an industry basically is just a collection of sprites 05:38:40 <supermop> well i mean in a more concepual way 05:38:47 <planetmaker> forcing that on towns would be a huge step back 05:39:04 <planetmaker> yes. conceptually industries are the most boring thing. 05:39:16 <planetmaker> they just are. nothing 'inside' 05:39:41 <planetmaker> each house of a town has basically all the functions an industry has, too 05:39:50 <supermop> a steel mill has a furnace, piles to store ore, office buildings, and rollers to extrude the steel 05:40:00 <planetmaker> except that they don't have production depending upon input 05:40:27 <planetmaker> supermop: it hasn't. It only has sprites ... they could be a marble playground 05:40:38 <planetmaker> a house already is 80% the same 05:40:51 <planetmaker> So making a town like a house is... recursion 05:41:15 <supermop> i am actually arguing to make the industry like a town 05:41:38 <planetmaker> :-) I understood you the other way around, sorry 05:41:48 <supermop> so more furnaces grow in the steel mill as production rises 05:41:59 <planetmaker> you can animate industries 05:42:11 <planetmaker> but you cannot (yet) change their layout 05:42:21 <supermop> and small victorian era industies in the middle of a city would eventually run out of room to grow 05:42:58 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/texts/farmtiles.txt <-- some random thoughts gathered by frosch 05:43:08 <supermop> so that they would be less competitive with an industry on the edge of town with plenty of room 05:43:30 <supermop> yeah farms are similar to what i am thinking here 05:43:38 <planetmaker> that's in principle certainly possible. But it requires quite a lot of coding work 05:43:52 <supermop> yeah 05:43:56 <planetmaker> both newgrf, but openttd before that 05:44:20 <planetmaker> let's see what ponies andy will breed in his FIRS production ;-) 05:44:31 <supermop> hehe 05:44:49 <supermop> well trees like fields would be a great start 05:45:22 <supermop> if mines could have small 'fields' of ore piles, that would also be cool 05:45:24 <supermop> but 05:45:31 <supermop> like you said, alot of work 05:46:45 <supermop> i want to do more visual cheating first 05:47:25 <planetmaker> :-) 05:47:41 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control <-- another of those ideas :-) 05:49:12 <planetmaker> but well. They might become reality *somewhen*. But don't expect anything anytime soon. Both is just written so that previous discussions have not been in vain :-) 05:49:21 <supermop> yeah 05:49:48 <supermop> does it break towns to have mostly 2x2 buildings? 05:50:33 <planetmaker> yes 05:51:04 <supermop> ok 05:52:34 <planetmaker> though it might be worth a try... 05:52:48 <supermop> are you familiar with the metabolist movement? 05:52:59 <supermop> in architecture 05:53:01 <planetmaker> but usually the town decides upon what it wants to do and then asks the house newgrf what it can get for the desired action 05:53:12 <planetmaker> I don't even know what that means 05:53:31 <supermop> well do you recognize this building: 05:53:55 <supermop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakagin_Capsule_Tower 05:54:57 <planetmaker> not in particular, but the principle design 05:55:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C0D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:03 <supermop> this might be too wierd for 7am 05:55:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:55:30 <supermop> well in tto it was in the original graphics 05:55:58 <planetmaker> well. we have a similar one still... 05:56:07 <supermop> yeah, 05:56:29 <supermop> but as a student of architecture, the squared-off towers bother me 05:56:39 <supermop> anyway 05:57:01 <supermop> this building was one of the very few built examples of metabolist architecture 05:57:24 <supermop> which was all about organic structures made from prefab parts 05:57:55 <supermop> originally the idea was to build hundreds of them 05:58:01 <supermop> around the world 05:58:27 <supermop> kind of like how cities in tto would become full of them by 2010 05:59:02 <supermop> sorry if this is boring 05:59:12 <planetmaker> not at all :-) 05:59:36 <planetmaker> I had been looking for the opengfx equivalent... :-P 05:59:37 <supermop> i am an architect, and i was very into this stuff even before i went to university 05:59:45 <supermop> infact 06:00:13 <planetmaker> but infact I find that particular building in the image you linked not particularily attractive or beautiful 06:00:16 <supermop> i think that the building in tto is what originally interested me in the metabolist movement 06:00:29 <supermop> its more of an idea 06:00:46 <supermop> it is in really bad shape right now, it has been neglected 06:01:09 <planetmaker> http://www.gruene-zitadelle.de/deutsch/popup.html?../pics/Poster_Tag_Ecke_Ansicht.jpg <-- rather like this hundertwasser building 06:01:13 <supermop> but when you visit it in person, you can feel the bueaty of the idea, like looking at lego 06:01:30 <supermop> ouch 06:01:41 <supermop> hopefully it isnt that bad! 06:03:08 <planetmaker> The architect is one of the most famous ones... - excentric but definitely a nice spot within the usual urban tristesse of usual architecture 06:04:25 <supermop> anyway, because metabolism was about taking standard parts and using them to create endless variations, 06:04:55 <supermop> i think it is a great fit for near-future games of TT 06:05:30 <supermop> especially when the game world is so covered by infrastructure 06:05:39 <supermop> so, 06:06:07 <supermop> i want to make a town set based on the ideals of the metabolist movement 06:07:24 <planetmaker> aye :-) 06:07:26 <supermop> it would require many buildings to visually blend with their neighbors 06:07:40 <planetmaker> sounds though like the tristesse the NA city set offers :-) 06:08:02 <supermop> MLSS has largely been a practice grf to learn how to do this 06:08:07 <supermop> well 06:08:17 <supermop> i dont want to do skyscrapers 06:08:43 <supermop> because that is kind of a different idea of future architecture 06:09:14 <supermop> that nakagin building is actually quite small in real life 06:09:26 <planetmaker> if you do a house grf, it's usually a good idea to have houses for all earas. And all 5 town zones 06:09:32 <supermop> yeah 06:09:42 <supermop> so its been fun planning it out 06:10:07 <supermop> the metabolist stuff could start around 1969, 06:10:24 <supermop> and there could be high modernism in the 50s, 06:10:40 <supermop> bauhaus and ciam in the 30s 06:10:58 <supermop> and italian futurism in the 10s-20s 06:11:32 <supermop> all of which were ideas about using technology to integrate man with the urban environment 06:12:51 <supermop> sorry about the arch. history rant 06:12:53 <planetmaker> he, yeah... Bauhaus... all-so-famous but also an architecture style which is just functional but not nice 06:13:00 <supermop> well 06:13:07 <supermop> the problem with bauhaus 06:13:09 <supermop> is 06:13:25 <supermop> that reall bauhaus was all about craft and quality 06:13:28 <supermop> but 06:14:02 <supermop> many 'fake' bauhaus buildings were built which just copied the visual style 06:14:14 <planetmaker> well... I studied near the cradle of the Bauhaus school. I went to lectures on a daily basis in a Bauhaus building, the canteen was in another. Oh well. 06:14:52 <supermop> without understanding the underlying need to improve the quality of the lives of the occupants 06:14:58 <supermop> in dessau? 06:15:17 <planetmaker> Jena. But it's not far. 06:15:23 <supermop> cool 06:16:09 <supermop> so far i just have sketches drawn of the buildings 06:16:20 <planetmaker> the turn-of-century buildings are nicer ;-) 06:16:57 <supermop> well a good building is a good building, no matter what the visual tyle is 06:17:07 <planetmaker> he, yeah 06:17:24 <supermop> there are plenty of traditional buildings with good functional design, 06:18:09 <supermop> and too many "modern" buildings that ignore the reasons for modern architecture 06:18:33 <supermop> and post-modern buildings that ignore it intentionally 06:19:42 <supermop> some of the most 'modern' buildings in a philosophical sense are the traditional folk buildings of a culture 06:20:00 <planetmaker> :-) 06:20:42 <supermop> its much more helpful to study this vernacular architecture of common people, than say the famous palaces 06:21:14 <supermop> because they were built to be efficient at what they do 06:22:15 <supermop> likewise, i think a castle is nicer than a mansion, because it was built by an engineer with a function in mind 06:22:52 <planetmaker> :-) 06:22:53 <supermop> sorry this is off topic for this room 06:23:10 <planetmaker> there seem to be only us two right now... 06:23:15 <supermop> hah 06:23:18 <supermop> oh well 06:23:36 <supermop> are you familiar with dieter rams? 06:23:47 <supermop> the designer 06:23:51 <planetmaker> it's alright :-) - and no. It's another word I haven't heart of before 06:24:14 <supermop> he designed for braun from 1955-1995 06:24:26 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 06:24:30 <supermop> he also designed furniture 06:24:55 <supermop> very functional and beautiful products 06:25:13 <supermop> that were well thought out 06:25:19 <planetmaker> hmpf... spammer in the forum again :-( 06:25:27 <supermop> ?? 06:25:31 <planetmaker> tt-forums 06:25:38 <planetmaker> just found some 06:25:39 <supermop> oh yeah it is bad ately 06:25:43 <supermop> lately 06:26:35 <planetmaker> sometimes it's amazing how much daily-life products can profit from design. But sometimes it's also astonishing how much of their function can be taken away by mis-design ;-) 06:26:57 <supermop> yeah 06:27:46 <supermop> today i bought from german ebay aa braun watch 06:28:01 <supermop> by dietrich lubs 06:28:09 <supermop> very simple clean desing 06:28:16 <supermop> not too expensive 06:28:20 <supermop> easy to read 06:28:33 <planetmaker> yeah... watches can be good examples for this 06:29:58 <supermop> http://www.service.braun.com/line/CL/L3802/L3802_vb.jpg 06:30:04 <supermop> like these but white 06:30:20 <planetmaker> yes, excellent 06:30:25 <supermop> and used, so it was cheap, 06:30:34 <supermop> even thoug it is an antique now 06:30:50 <ccfreak2k> Doesn't Braun make toothbrushes? 06:30:55 <supermop> yeah 06:31:01 <ccfreak2k> Lack of focus. 06:31:02 <supermop> they were bought out 06:31:12 <planetmaker> all kind of electrical devices... 06:31:12 <supermop> and fired their design team 06:31:30 <supermop> now there is no thought in the design any more 06:31:46 <supermop> because they are owned by proctor and gamble, 06:31:54 <supermop> a toothpaste company 06:32:35 <ccfreak2k> Proctor = Proctology 06:32:38 <ccfreak2k> Gamble = Chance 06:32:42 <ccfreak2k> The mind boggles. 06:32:54 <supermop> hahaha 06:33:30 <supermop> i really like the ogfx gui 06:33:42 <supermop> i think it is good and functionaall 06:34:05 <supermop> better than the original 06:34:48 <planetmaker> nice to hear :-) Make sure you tell Zephyris, too. 06:35:06 <supermop> yeah, i really like his work 06:35:16 <supermop> i want to get my hands on that tool 06:35:23 <planetmaker> he's a drawing machine ;-) 06:35:32 <ccfreak2k> Did the GUI actually change with OpenGFX or just the tiles and trains? 06:35:44 <planetmaker> everything 06:35:50 <supermop> to make variations on modular buildings 06:36:00 <supermop> have you seen that thing? 06:36:05 <planetmaker> yes 06:36:08 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.104.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:36:09 <planetmaker> it's awesome 06:36:31 <supermop> its exactly what organic architecture is about 06:36:47 <ccfreak2k> openttd: error while loading shared libraries: libicui18n.so.42: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 06:36:48 <ccfreak2k> Uh oh. 06:36:49 <supermop> well, insofar as it can be approximated in a tile based game 06:38:07 <planetmaker> when he really brings it to a state to make house newgrfs automatically... awesome 06:38:34 <supermop> in the future, if i could be dynamic in game... 06:38:38 <supermop> it 06:39:00 <supermop> create random houses based on type of city 06:40:17 <planetmaker> that's unlikely ;-) - but per city is already newgrf-able 06:41:10 <planetmaker> though it needs jumping over some fences 06:42:20 <supermop> do you want electrics for other ogfx+ climates? 06:42:40 <planetmaker> what? train engines? 06:42:47 <supermop> yeah 06:43:08 <supermop> arctic and tropical both use american stock i think? 06:43:12 <planetmaker> maybe at some late(r) stage, yes 06:43:18 <supermop> and no electrics 06:43:45 <planetmaker> Well... one can argue that way with the regional ressemblance, yes 06:44:03 <planetmaker> Though I'd not be sure about tropical 06:44:23 <supermop> which is unfortunate, as there were some significant electric railways here, and still are now 06:45:39 <supermop> i always thought locomotion made more sense with the british/swiss/american breakdown 06:45:40 <planetmaker> well. My roadmap for 0.2 is to resort things internally a bit and add more visual cargo support for wagons 06:45:56 <planetmaker> *re-sort 06:46:03 <supermop> it seems silly to duplicate engines in two climates 06:46:15 <planetmaker> why? 06:46:28 <supermop> let me know if you ever want drawing help 06:46:31 <supermop> well 06:46:34 <ccfreak2k> What are we taLking about now? 06:46:58 <supermop> i feel like in ttd, we mised out on all sorts of continental engines 06:46:58 <planetmaker> climate designation of vehicles, and opengfx+ in particular 06:47:19 <Terkhen> good morning 06:47:21 <planetmaker> well. There's plenty of newgrf which can sort that 06:47:25 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen 06:48:01 <planetmaker> my main emphasis is to make an extension which makes sense from a game-play perspective 06:48:08 <supermop> yeah 06:48:27 <planetmaker> supermop: if you want drawing work, though: there's plenty which OpenGFX itself could still use 06:48:42 <planetmaker> E.g. airports which look different in different climates. 06:48:58 <planetmaker> Or also indeed the vehicles which are the same may be different 06:49:01 <supermop> meaning adding snow? 06:49:13 <planetmaker> no. Just really different looks 06:49:30 <planetmaker> Adding snow is useful for the arctic versions (only) 06:49:42 <planetmaker> and can only be done within OpenGFX+airports 06:49:59 <supermop> i could try to do a couple airports to match ogfx style but with variations 06:50:00 <planetmaker> actually: there, all airports need rotations by all multiples of 90° 06:50:20 <planetmaker> opengfx+airports can handle that 06:50:32 <planetmaker> what has to remain though: the layout 06:51:09 <planetmaker> and the layout as a whole is rotat-able 06:52:16 <supermop> hello to terkhen by the way, didn't see your greeting there, sorry 06:52:26 <Terkhen> hello supermop and planetmaker :) 06:52:29 <planetmaker> as such... having unique airport sprites for climates or maybe more important, rotations of the existing ones, would be a huge gain :-) 06:52:45 <supermop> ok 06:53:11 <supermop> i usually start with a model in rhinocerous, which i then draw over in PS 06:53:21 <supermop> so rotation shouldnt be hard 06:53:24 <planetmaker> I'd be especially interested also in toyland versions of the infrastructure 06:53:47 <planetmaker> it works well in the 3 usual climates, but toyland needs to differ :-) 06:54:25 <planetmaker> infrastructure here also means rail stations. maybe also RV and docks 06:54:37 <supermop> ok 06:54:53 <supermop> all of that is alot, but i will do what i can 06:55:09 <planetmaker> I know, it's a lot and will keep a single person busy. 06:55:23 <planetmaker> You do what you feel like doing :-) 06:56:17 <supermop> well, i want to get mlss finished, and my next grf started, but I also want to help out 06:56:50 <planetmaker> everyone will use base sets :-) 06:57:09 <supermop> i usually use them myself 06:57:38 <planetmaker> you can't play without a base set :-P - you might use the TTD one, though 06:58:35 <supermop> well, i would have preferred TTO, but i love the idea of being able to play not in a legal grey area 06:58:58 <supermop> i never owned a ttd cd, only tto 06:59:28 <planetmaker> I think it's a bit of a matter of getting used to one or another 06:59:36 <supermop> and i think ogfx is superior to ttd 06:59:59 <supermop> except for the grey capsule tower 07:00:08 <planetmaker> They're different for sure, better. Well, I should argue OpenGFX is better. And there are places where it is better. But also some where it is not 07:00:19 <planetmaker> from my very personal visual judgement 07:00:31 <supermop> yeah 07:00:48 <planetmaker> grey capsule tower? 07:01:08 <supermop> the building i sent you the picture of 07:01:13 <planetmaker> oye 07:01:21 <planetmaker> Then draw a better version ;-) 07:01:27 <planetmaker> Make sure there's a bit CC in it 07:01:29 <supermop> in ogfx it has grey shafts instead of black 07:01:44 <supermop> ive actually drawn it several times! 07:01:56 <supermop> and for 32bpp ez as well 07:02:14 <planetmaker> he... 07:02:21 <supermop> ive also modelled the interior of the real one based on memory of visiting it 07:02:42 <supermop> its an important building to me personally 07:03:31 <supermop> back in 2005 i made a HL2 map of the inside of it so i could walk around through it 07:03:43 <planetmaker> lol 07:04:01 <supermop> with the measurements based on my photos and memory 07:04:56 <planetmaker> btw... how do you develop your newgrf? Do you use some kind of version control? 07:05:03 <supermop> i will try to make one that fits in with opengfx 07:05:16 <supermop> i have no idea what that is 07:05:27 <supermop> i just use notepad 07:05:37 <supermop> and number everything by hand 07:07:05 <supermop> every time i figure out something new, i increase the name of the file by 0.0.1, 07:07:23 <planetmaker> well. a version control (system) is a programm which keeps track of the changes for you and remembers all older versions 07:07:31 <Rawh> like subversion 07:07:34 <supermop> and if it isn't totally embarrassing, i post it in my thread and ask people to try it 07:07:53 <supermop> i just have them saved as txt files 07:08:10 <Rawh> isn't it easier to have programs do that for you? 07:08:11 <supermop> i still get embarassed alot though 07:08:23 <Rawh> especially with 'larger' projects, I suppose 07:08:24 <supermop> i dont really know anything about programming 07:08:37 <planetmaker> it might sound too much work for too little gain, but it helps to save time after a bit getting used to :-) 07:08:59 <supermop> i dont know a single computer language either 07:09:06 <planetmaker> it has not much to do with programming itself. It's just a tool to keep track of changes 07:09:40 <planetmaker> you change a tile. Then you tell it "Changed tile XY's offset to better fit whatever" 07:09:56 <planetmaker> no file name changes, no copying. Just via a single command 07:10:02 <supermop> what i would really like, 07:10:11 <planetmaker> and you can go back and forth in history with single commands as well 07:10:19 <supermop> is to figure out how to automate the numbering of sprites 07:10:29 <planetmaker> nforenum? 07:10:34 <supermop> yeah, 07:10:39 <supermop> i never figured it out 07:11:32 <planetmaker> just run nforenum myfile.nfo 07:11:53 <supermop> is it included in grfcodec 5? 07:12:02 <supermop> i thought i read that 07:13:05 <Rawh> anyways, time to go to work 07:13:06 <Rawh> o/ 07:13:13 <planetmaker> I should now advocate both, the version control via mercurial http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ (including tortoiseHG) and my makefile framework for easily building a newgrf... http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/newgrf_makefile/nightlies/LATEST/example-newgrf-nightly-r232-nfo.zip 07:13:20 <supermop> i should get to sleep so i can work tomorrow 07:14:12 <supermop> ok, i will look into those! 07:15:31 <planetmaker> oki. good night then :-) 07:16:10 <supermop> thanks so much for your help, 07:16:25 <supermop> im going to try to lean how to use that callback 07:17:18 <supermop> good night/morning! 07:18:50 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.31.119] has joined #openttd 07:19:41 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 07:24:36 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b95c9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:26:03 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:49:03 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 07:49:42 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 07:51:07 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:05 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:35 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has joined #openttd 08:03:32 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 08:05:52 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=51205 <-- is it really possible to be that stubborn or thick-headed? 08:09:04 <ccfreak2k> planetmaker, I would just put it bluntly for him: each square doesn't have any particular static distance. 08:09:42 <ccfreak2k> You gave him a bunch of numbers, and as far as he's concerned, only one of them is right. 08:10:53 <Rubidium> planetmaker: nah, we're having good fun :) 08:12:46 <planetmaker> well. Now it's the 2nd time I give him one number... let's see. Otherwise Fred will have to join the round 08:13:39 <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, those are big squares! 08:14:23 <Rubidium> yet... still at least a factor 10 smaller than the largest scale found in OpenTTD 08:21:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:57 <planetmaker> "hope to be involved more and talk soon" <-- is that a threat? 08:23:40 <Yexo> nah, a promise of more topics to make fun of 08:24:23 <planetmaker> :-) 08:36:46 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:36:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:38:06 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:02 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 08:48:38 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 08:49:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:50:20 <Wolf01> hello 08:50:57 <Alberth> hello 08:51:59 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:52:42 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:21 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:05 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:55:20 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721609.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:56:47 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 10:08:45 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFB96.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:21:02 <fjb> Moin 10:21:25 <Terkhen> moin fjb 10:21:51 <fjb> Moin Terkhen 10:35:14 <Rubidium> moi 10:35:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21252 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: introduce a constant for the number of milliseconds per game tick and use it 10:45:54 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 10:46:28 <fjb> Moin Rubidium 10:57:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21253 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Change: mention the OpenTTD version on the console/logs when starting an OpenTTD dedicated server like we mention it in the title bar for the GUI version 11:08:39 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8ce17.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:13:22 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-41.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 11:19:01 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 11:20:48 <Ammler> is r21252 some initial code for daylength patch? :-) 11:22:14 <SpComb> milliseconds sounds good 11:25:36 *** X-2 [~X-2@a82-95-91-139.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:38:42 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f721609.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:58 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:52:50 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.104.150] has joined #openttd 12:03:30 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has left #openttd [] 12:03:36 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 12:28:59 *** X-2 [~X-2@a82-95-91-139.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21254 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp_game.cpp core/tcp_game.h network_server.cpp): -Change: show a different "lag" message when a client is lagging because of connection trouble or lagging because the client is just slow 12:32:55 <welshdragon> ooh, OpenTTD on my Android phone <3 12:33:24 <__ln___> do androids dream of electric sheep? 12:40:28 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> do they look anything like these? http://objectiveministries.org/zounds/ss-minecraft-sheep.jpg 12:43:46 <__ln___> very likely 12:50:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 13:01:27 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 13:23:19 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:23:42 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21255 /trunk/src/ (misc_gui.cpp openttd.cpp): -Fix (r179): main menu error messages wouldn't show when you had an error message open in the game while whatever triggered you to go back to the main menu 13:27:52 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:29:12 <xiong> Hi, guys. 13:30:10 <xiong> In FIRS, all the Fishing Grounds seem to come with a built-in Oil Rig and the whole has a pre-built "station". But no Oil Rigs are shown on the minimap. Bug or feature? 13:32:48 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:49 <lugo> xiong, http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2479?project=1&pagenum=3 13:35:23 <lugo> i think there's no oil rig inside the grounds :D 13:35:54 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 13:37:32 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has joined #openttd 13:40:47 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:27 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:44:03 <xiong> lugo, Interesting link but I can't follow the writer's intent. I gather that the pre-built station is both dock and airport. I will further imagine that only helicopters can land there. 13:44:39 <xiong> If I send tankers there, will I never be able to take off any Oil? 13:45:22 <lugo> 'there' as in fishing grounds? 13:45:28 <xiong> That is, the Oil Rig revealed by the ? tool is... a hack to allow the copters to land? 13:45:44 <xiong> ... as in Fishing Grounds, yesser. 13:46:12 <lugo> you can not take off any oil from fishing grounds. 13:46:40 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:49 <xiong> That's rational, lugo. But I do see the Oil Rig with the ? tool, which is what started this... fishing expedition. 13:46:59 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC5B45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:38 <xiong> I will say neither bug nor feature, merely a hack. Unclear why anyone would want fish so bad they would build a heliport out at sea, but... 13:48:30 <xiong> I have not yet got to the Wright Bros. We'll see. 13:51:00 <lugo> well if i click on a fishing ground with ?-tool, it says 'Fishing Grounds' for me, FIRS 0.5.4 13:51:57 <lugo> well the german translation 13:52:39 <lugo> i can confirm it says 'oil rig' in english, which o/c is a bug 14:00:04 *** Alberth1 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:00:04 *** Alberth is now known as Guest1461 14:00:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth1] by ChanServ 14:00:04 *** Alberth1 is now known as Alberth 14:00:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:00:42 *** Guest1461 [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:01:57 <lugo> well it says oil rig just for the fishing grounds 'station tile', so i guess it's a known bug 14:08:17 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-41.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:09:23 <Belugas> hello 14:09:40 <Terkhen> hello Belugas 14:09:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:35e9:9b83:964c:3be] has joined #openttd 14:09:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:09:56 <lugo> g'day Belugas, Terkhen 14:11:01 <Belugas> hi guys 14:11:30 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:11:41 <Belugas> neither a bug or a feature 14:11:55 <Belugas> fishing is a replacement of an actual oil rig 14:12:33 <Belugas> problem stands in the fact that the station name part is determined from original station tye, which is stillthe same. 14:12:47 <Belugas> yu see, oil rig is a bi headed creature. 14:12:51 <Belugas> it's an industry 14:12:53 <Belugas> it's a station 14:13:09 <Belugas> so industry has changed, not the station 14:13:11 <Belugas> normal 14:13:22 <Belugas> so it's a state of fact 14:13:26 <Belugas> nt a bug, 14:13:29 <Belugas> not a feature 14:13:36 <Belugas> get it? 14:13:37 <lugo> it's a problem 14:14:05 <lugo> but i am not xiong and i pretty much can cope with one station tile saying oil rig :D 14:16:24 <Alberth> hai Belugas 14:21:03 <Belugas> sir Alberth, may I greet you hello in this channel as well? THat would only increase the ratio of wavings vs conversations hehehe! 14:22:17 <Alberth> you may :) 14:23:36 * Belugas waves hello to Alberth! 14:23:43 <Alberth> although other channels seem to be more worried about that :) 14:29:13 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:13 <Belugas> ho... 1001 posts... congrats Alberth! 14:29:53 <Alberth> it only took 3 years :) 14:35:41 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:23 * Belugas reads with amusement the post where the user suggests to move from 15 companies to .. say... 30... 14:36:25 <Belugas> cool... 14:36:49 <SpComb> just one bit more 14:37:05 <Alberth> a very expensive bit :) 14:37:24 <SpComb> or is it a bitmask of some kind? 14:37:34 <Rubidium> it's a bitmask in quite a few places 14:38:19 <Alberth> expensive in the sense that a lot of code needs to be changed to make room 14:38:43 <lugo> 30, _for now_ 14:39:19 <Terkhen> what if in a year he still hasn't resetted his server and he needs 256 companies? 14:39:36 <Alberth> new map array ! 14:39:41 <Rubidium> you should suggest using toyland instead 14:41:03 <SpComb> give them an option as to what map array feature bits to remove to make room for the company bits 14:42:03 <planetmaker> just add two bytes to the map array. There all those bits may go ;-) 14:42:18 <planetmaker> and make all paramters int64 14:42:33 <planetmaker> should be easy. 14:42:36 <planetmaker> Or so. 14:42:37 <planetmaker> :-P 14:43:15 *** saronpasu [~saronpasu@catv075-208.lan-do.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:15 <planetmaker> hm, I forgot to mention that I have no clue. And on that basis I infer that it must be easy 14:44:36 * Rubidium ponders making a patch with a million companies 14:44:44 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:16 <Rubidium> ... just only the first 15 can actually own or build something besides money, or see their vehicle list 14:45:30 <planetmaker> minor inconvenience 14:45:32 <Terkhen> but what if in a thousand years he STILL hasn't resetted the server and he needs even more companies? 14:46:40 <Belugas> we'lll sue him then 14:46:45 <Rubidium> Belugas: why? 14:46:50 <Belugas> us or our descendants... 14:46:52 <planetmaker> why not? 14:47:07 <Belugas> for not reading... 14:47:08 <Belugas> hem.. 14:47:09 <planetmaker> being right and getting right in court are different things. 14:47:12 <Belugas> something 14:47:13 <Rubidium> we don't even give warranty on the app, so just say this falls outside of the warranty :) 14:47:22 <Belugas> right :) 14:47:23 <Alberth> Terkhen: we add a patch that crashes the program 14:47:28 <planetmaker> inflicted mental pain or so. 14:47:41 <planetmaker> Having seen SmatZ cry yesterday, I'm sure it's also his fault 14:47:48 <planetmaker> (not SmatZ's, the other guys) 14:48:34 <Terkhen> another one of those crashing patches? they difficult to pass as innocent commits 14:48:37 <Terkhen> they are* 14:49:13 <Belugas> one liner commits can have ripple effects for a long time :) 14:49:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 14:49:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:09 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has joined #openttd 14:51:31 <Rubidium> Terkhen: really? SmatZ's pool patches seemed quite innocent 14:51:43 <Terkhen> :D 14:53:06 * Belugas is now thinking about some auto-stuff patch... 14:54:37 <Belugas> wrong... i'm thinking about an empty mug... 14:55:05 <planetmaker> is it half full or half empty? 14:55:50 <Alberth> it is fully empty :) 14:56:11 * Alberth pours more coffee in the mug 14:56:34 <fjb> How emptyful the world is today. 15:02:06 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:25 <Belugas> it WAS horribly dry and empty :D 15:22:52 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:24:23 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:25:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:27:04 *** ntx [~ntx@vipunen.hut.fi] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 15:31:01 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 15:38:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:40:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 15:45:41 *** pyth [~dirkjan@D4B24892.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:03 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has joined #openttd 15:55:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21256 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4189]: Clients weren't always notified when the connection was lost 15:55:33 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:06:04 *** pyth [~dirkjan@80.187.149.27] has joined #openttd 16:18:25 <Belugas> i'm bored to death and i can't even do something meaningful :S 16:21:15 <Belugas> and there's not much activity on forums either 16:23:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0b95c9.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:27:23 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 16:27:47 <Hirundo> Belugas: Could a tunnel/bridge related patch relieve your boredom? 16:27:53 <fjb> Belugas: Invent something. 16:31:16 <Belugas> maybe to both of you :) 16:38:50 *** zachanim1 [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 16:39:29 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:57 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [Als het zó moet...] 16:45:16 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-088-076-108-080.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:49:39 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 16:49:58 <IchGuckLive> Hi all from Rainy germany 16:50:07 *** Mazur [~mazur@53551A99.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:50:26 <IchGuckLive> Question how do i see how many of eatch products a trainstation carrys 16:50:49 <IchGuckLive> i only see cole nothing els is thias connectet to someting i got to enable 16:52:07 *** Samu [Samu@159.47.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 16:52:07 <IchGuckLive> is it posible to get a info of the influence room after the station wars build ? 16:52:43 <planetmaker> not directly. but you can hover with the station build tool over existing station tiles 16:53:46 <IchGuckLive> ok 16:54:30 <Hirundo> Belugas: http://pastebin.com/WGbtqUJr <- make trains enter wormholes only when they're no longer on the entry tile 16:56:38 * fjb advises IchGuckLive to use a translation service. 16:59:05 * Rubidium advises Rubidium to prepare some dinner. 17:00:01 * Belugas checks diff 17:01:22 <fjb> Enjoy your meal, Rubidium. 17:01:36 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0ef2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:17 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:02 * Eddi|zuHause must stop Eddi|zuHause from advising IchGuckLive to visit the german forum 17:08:15 <__ln___> IchGuckLive: schreiben sie deutsch genauso schlecht als englisch? 17:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: alswie? 17:11:20 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: or have you learned german in Hessen? :p 17:11:40 <__ln___> yes, it says "wie", it's just encrypted as "als" to distract the intelligence agencies. 17:11:52 <planetmaker> nah. Thee must not complain. He just speaketh the true form ;-) 17:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Thou? 17:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, gtg 17:13:17 <__ln___> 'thee' is also some singular second person form, but which 17:13:34 <planetmaker> maybe. My Shakespear English is not quite up to date. As much as a Shakespear English can ever be up to date, though 17:14:27 <Samu> hi 17:14:38 <__ln___> Shakespeare's sonnet is called "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day" indeed. 17:15:14 <__ln___> is it like... akkusativ? 17:20:13 *** pyth [~dirkjan@80.187.149.27] has quit [Quit: pyth] 17:22:18 <Samu> the wiki is so biased 17:22:35 <Samu> there's not even a page about original acceleration model 17:22:59 <IchGuckLive> __ln___: ja 17:23:03 <avdg> there is also much work to keep the wiki accurate 17:23:23 <IchGuckLive> the German forum has no irc channel 17:23:39 <IchGuckLive> oppentd-de ? 17:23:52 <IchGuckLive> openttd-de 17:23:55 <planetmaker> indeed it has not 17:24:07 <planetmaker> Samu: it's a wiki 17:24:14 <IchGuckLive> so its not a prefert game in germany 17:25:06 <Terkhen> Samu: it is a wiki, if that information is missing you should add it 17:25:33 <Samu> me? I don't know the mechanics, I'm not a developer 17:25:48 <Samu> there's so much details for realistic train acceleration 17:27:31 <Terkhen> you don't have to be a developer; anyone can edit it 17:27:58 <Samu> the corners, how it accelerates 17:28:04 <Samu> how it decreases speed 17:28:10 <Samu> going uphill, downhill 17:28:11 <Terkhen> in fact, I doubt that the realistic acceleration info in the wiki was written by developers 17:28:21 <Terkhen> at least entirely 17:28:59 <Samu> sorry,I can't help 17:29:07 <Samu> never touched a wiki anyway 17:29:23 <Samu> I did once, ended up banned 17:30:24 <__ln___> me too 17:30:37 <Samu> it was a starcraft wiki, with outdated psionic storm damage against mutalisks 17:31:19 <Samu> the full duration of psionic storm can kill a whole pack of mutalisks <-- false 17:31:24 <Samu> I removed that line 17:31:28 <Samu> bam, banned 17:31:35 <Terkhen> then we can conclude that the original acceleration model is missing from the wiki because no one is interested enough to write an article about it 17:31:50 <avdg> samu: try the sandbox 17:32:17 <avdg> http://wiki.openttd.org/Sandbox 17:32:41 <Samu> stupid noobs editing wikis 17:33:34 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 17:35:23 <AveiMil> Can you register channels and stuff on oftc.net? 17:37:21 <Samu> oh god~ 17:37:26 <Samu> that's nearly html code 17:37:29 <Samu> I can't code 17:37:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7460.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:37:44 <Samu> wikipedia wasn't this complext before 17:37:56 <Ammler> AveiMil: www.oftc.net 17:38:49 <avdg> samu: its actually a mix of wiki style and html 17:38:53 <avdg> at least, on our wiki 17:39:59 <Samu> I give up 17:40:38 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 17:41:11 <Samu> sorry 17:41:18 <avdg> np 17:41:38 <Samu> for being useless once moe 17:42:02 <avdg> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD:Tutorial 17:42:16 <avdg> and for edits: don't force yourself to do it 17:49:27 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED67292.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:11 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 17:54:02 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:54:07 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.130.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:04 <V453000> Samu: original acceleration is for noobs, rather 17:59:02 <Rubidium> Hirundo: regarding the patch you linked; in the first chunk, wouldn't it be easier to just do v->track = DDTDTB(DTDD(v->direction)) instead of checking GetTunnelBridgeDirection(v->tile) == DTDD(v->direction) and then doing DDTDTB(GTBD(v->tile))? 17:59:30 <Rubidium> that bit basically already proves that GTBD(v->tile) can be replaced with DTDD(v->direction) there as well 17:59:55 <Rubidium> and then both branches of the if are the same (except the assert) 18:01:56 *** Kichi [~Kichi@adsl-68-126-0-153.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:33 * Rubidium waves to michi's older sibling :) 18:02:41 <Hirundo> I guess you're right 18:03:43 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:57 <Hirundo> The patch isn't really finished, RVs and ships should get the same treatment 18:06:34 <Rubidium> agreed :) 18:08:48 <Hirundo> I first need to wrap my head around the RV Controller, though 18:10:18 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:08 <Belugas> poor head :( 18:12:18 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:12:20 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 18:12:23 <IchGuckLive> Guten abend 18:13:03 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:13:35 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:13:39 <IchGuckLive> one more quwstion : is it posibel to change the text size of the worldmap ? i can not read the items 18:14:37 <Belugas> there is test on the world map? 18:14:48 <Xaroth> town names? 18:14:56 <Xaroth> or the legend with the colours and what they mean 18:15:00 <Belugas> there is not a FAQ on wiki on fonts recently discused? 18:15:06 <IchGuckLive> no in the map that shows where al the stuff is 18:15:18 <Samu> minimap 18:15:28 <IchGuckLive> yes Samu 18:15:47 <Belugas> yeah... that SHOULD be covered on the FAQ 18:16:21 <IchGuckLive> where are this FAQ on the wiki ? 18:16:36 <avdg> http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ 18:17:00 <avdg> I just discovered there isn't a FAQ about the wiki too 18:17:02 <Belugas> ho... come on... 18:17:08 <Terkhen> :D 18:17:23 <avdg> well, the wiki has some hidden spots ;-) 18:18:03 <avdg> just discovered http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD:Tutorial today 18:19:07 *** Kichi [~Kichi@adsl-68-126-0-153.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 18:19:34 <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#My_User_Interface_is_too_small_to_read 18:19:51 <Belugas> congrats 18:19:56 <IchGuckLive> is this also fo minimap small size ? 18:20:11 <Zuu> avdg: The Village Pump links there. 18:20:27 <avdg> as the wiki sandox does 18:20:56 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 18:20:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B827.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:21:10 <avdg> it may be linked directly from the homepage imo 18:21:12 <Zuu> Both which are linked to on thte front page. 18:21:38 <avdg> at least, it needs more attention 18:21:53 <Zuu> Most parts of the wiki needs attention 18:22:24 <avdg> there is too much work atm to do that (translations) 18:24:14 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:41 <IchGuckLive> Belugas: did not work at the minimap front size 18:27:58 <IchGuckLive> i changed small from 8 to 12 18:29:11 <Terkhen> IchGuckLive: the tutorial is probably not clear enough, but besides changing size you also need to specify a correct value small_font 18:29:52 <Terkhen> IchGuckLive: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51208 18:29:54 <IchGuckLive> this is clear but there is no front set in the intirer config 18:30:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:31:32 <IchGuckLive> trying ones more with all the fronts setting 18:33:51 <IchGuckLive> no does not work 18:35:37 <IchGuckLive> ok i will find a solution 18:37:02 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #openttd [] 18:40:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:44:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r21257 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) 18:44:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 6 changes by kasakg 18:44:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changes by jpx_ 18:44:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 18:44:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 63 changes by BlinK_ 18:46:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21258 /trunk/src/lang/ (arabic_egypt.txt greek.txt ukrainian.txt): -Fix: remove strings with the U+FFFD "replacement character" 18:49:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.176.18] has joined #openttd 18:50:20 *** lisby^ [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 18:51:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac08.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B827.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:35 <fonsinchen> Wasn't there a newer and better method of desync debugging than this: http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Network/Desync_debugging? 18:57:52 <fonsinchen> I seem to remember I didn't recompile last time and I had loads of savegames to compare between client and server 18:58:42 <Rubidium> -ddesync=3 ? 18:59:02 <Rubidium> but that only stores stuff at the server side 18:59:27 <Rubidium> though you can rerun the "command stream" that gets logged, but that needs some source modding IIRC 19:01:53 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/enable_replay.diff <- you need that to "enable" replay 19:02:47 <Rubidium> then by carefully stripping enough from the begin of the command stream and loading the right savegame you should be able to reproduce the desync 19:03:24 <Rubidium> and if the stripping fails, you can always start the server let it run till the moment the client should join get it to pause and only continue when that client joined 19:04:02 <fonsinchen> sounds interesting. thanks 19:09:30 <fonsinchen> So if the server is running with ddesync=3 and I am running a client with ddsync=3 and a desync occurs I should have all useful data I can get to debug it, right? 19:12:50 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 19:13:01 *** AveiMil [~AveiMil@232.81-166-168.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 19:13:28 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:13:41 <Arie-> fonsinchen 19:13:42 <Arie-> hi 19:13:55 <Arie-> quickly had to install mIRC 19:14:04 <Arie-> it was -ddesync3 19:14:39 <Arie-> inititally it said "unknown command" like response 19:14:53 <Arie-> but that was when i used -ddsync=3 19:15:04 <Arie-> i'll retry to connect 19:16:00 *** lisby^ [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:03 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:14 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:26 <Arie-> works 19:20:04 <fonsinchen> Uh, what was that? 19:20:17 <Arie-> yeah 19:20:30 <Arie-> because desync=0 i restarted the server 19:20:32 <Arie-> to retry 19:20:57 <fonsinchen> Are you going to run it with or without desync debugging now? 19:21:27 <Arie-> well 19:21:30 <Arie-> I had to retry 19:21:46 <Arie-> but i think the client and server both have to be set to -ddesync=3 19:22:07 <Arie-> so i restarted the server and client (although server probably wasn't necessary) 19:22:07 <fonsinchen> I have a client with ddesync=3 running 19:22:11 <Arie-> ah ok 19:22:29 <Arie-> well when i entered in my console it said desync=3 19:22:38 <Arie-> *desync=0 19:22:43 <Arie-> but that was my client 19:23:03 <Arie-> i can't see what the server is set to that way I think 19:23:12 <fonsinchen> Of course. Stupid me. It doesn't show the server debug levels but the client debug levels 19:23:28 <Rubidium> if you're running it on both the server and client, be *very sure they are not writing their commands log to the same file and their savegames 19:23:56 <Arie-> no these are two distinct machines 19:24:00 <Arie-> but thanks for the heads up 19:24:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21259 /trunk/src/newgrf_object.cpp: -Change: [NewGRF] Split var43 into var43 (animation stage) and var47 (object colour) 19:24:45 <fonsinchen> you should get a lot of dmp_cmds_*.sav in the server's autosave folder 19:24:57 <fonsinchen> is it like this? 19:26:01 <Arie-> yes it is 19:26:04 <fonsinchen> nice 19:26:31 <fonsinchen> if we get a desync please send all the contents of the autosave folder to me. 19:26:49 <Arie-> ok 19:26:53 <Rubidium> then I hope the desync happens soon :) 19:27:11 <Arie-> i'll probably use dropbox or something like that 19:27:15 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 19:27:21 <fonsinchen> Do you have a better idea, Rubidium? 19:27:50 <fonsinchen> btw, watch your hard disk space, Arie- ... 19:27:58 <Arie-> yeah 19:28:11 <Arie-> thanks for the heads up, i, already moving stuff away from that drive 19:28:13 <Rubidium> get the command log first, then figure out when the client that desynced joined 19:28:18 <Arie-> *i'm 19:29:04 <Rubidium> if time-of-desync and time-of-join are close together get progressively earlier savegames from before the join, e.g. 30 days, 60 days, 120 days, 240 days, 480 days, 960 days 19:29:17 <Arie-> so moving a dvd of slash away 19:29:21 <Rubidium> then just try to reproduce it with the 30 days before join savegame etc. 19:29:52 <Arie-> then i should be ok for a while 19:29:55 <Rubidium> in any case... you should be able to reproduce the desync without the client on the server 19:30:16 <Arie-> gonna play a bit now 19:30:29 <Rubidium> this as the command log logs the sync seeds as well 19:30:37 <Rubidium> so it can check the sync seeds while re-running 19:30:51 <Arie-> but gonna watch a movie in half an hour with some flat mates 19:31:04 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 19:31:16 <Rubidium> so (somewhat) binary you can search for the first savegame that's not desyncing 19:31:32 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:31:48 <Arie-> hmmm 19:31:57 <Arie-> ` doens't work to get the console out of the way 19:32:00 <fonsinchen> OK, I got the first half about searching the latest common save 19:32:00 <Rubidium> on the other hand, when the join and desync are far apart you should be able to reproduce it with the savegames in between 19:32:44 <Rubidium> no quite common save, but more the first save which "desyncs" when you're rerunning it with the command stream 19:33:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:19 <Rubidium> though... if it's something related to threads being scheduled differently then this method won't really help you 19:33:32 <fonsinchen> so I connect a client to the server and run the command stream through the server with your patch, right? 19:34:40 <fonsinchen> If the client desyncs I have a combination of save and command stream position I can investigate further. 19:34:46 <fonsinchen> Is that the point? 19:34:57 <Rubidium> yes, but you don't need to connect the client in most cases to figure out the minimal desync case 19:35:25 <fonsinchen> How can I determine a desync without connecting a client? 19:35:41 <Rubidium> the command stream contains the sync seeds of the original server 19:36:01 <Rubidium> the savegames the server made are comparable to the savegames sent to the clients 19:36:26 <Rubidium> so when rerunning the command stream you are in effect the client 19:36:34 <Rubidium> with the benefit of fast-forward 19:37:06 <AveiMil> Anyone want to play some PIGM on a dedicated server? Looking for ~5 to start in 1950 with 19:37:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21260 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: make strgen more stringent w.r.t. the allowed characters in strings 19:39:26 <fonsinchen> The sync seed is the next random number at some point in the game, right? 19:39:38 <Rubidium> yes 19:39:50 <Rubidium> (or the last random number) 19:40:43 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 19:41:33 <fonsinchen> So I run the command stream through the server and it checks those sync seeds all the time and reports if they don't match. 19:42:02 <Rubidium> exactly 19:43:10 <fonsinchen> So if I've got a nondeterministic behaviour it should turn up if I try often enough. 19:43:13 <fonsinchen> I see. 19:44:15 *** perk111 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:49 <fonsinchen> Even if that's related to threading I should be able to pinpoint it if I try on different machines with different scheduling. 19:47:41 <AveiMil> http://www.openttd.org/en/server/37697 <- Join in if you want to have some competetive fun for a few hours (game is paused until enough players are ready) 19:56:54 * fjb dislikes advertising. 20:00:12 <Alberth> nothing /ignore cannot solve 20:00:50 <AveiMil> it's not like the channel is being spammed, just asking if anyone wants to have a game 20:01:40 <Alberth> twice in 11 minutes 20:02:35 <AveiMil> That's outrageous! 20:02:37 <fjb> Once there was only one advocate who offerend his service by mailing to random people. 20:02:47 <Terkhen> yes, it also fits my definition of spam 20:07:36 * Rubidium ponders flaming Prorail... saying "no trains in Utrecht as the firefighters said so" when there was a fire in the building with the controls for the signals and switches. Given the fact they have to check how much damage has been done I reckon a part of the control system has caught fire. So yes, it's the firefighter's fault they're not allowed to do their work :) 20:08:01 <Arie-> fonsinchen, i'm gonna watch a movie with my flat mates 20:12:00 <AveiMil> Is there any way to increase font size in chat in OpenTTD? 20:12:27 <Terkhen> AveiMil: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51208 20:14:45 <AveiMil> yeah, I already got small_font = C:\Windows\Fonts\verdana.ttf 20:14:56 <AveiMil> but it dosent' seem to affect the chat font 20:15:43 <AveiMil> ah, that's because the chat font is not the small font 20:19:09 <AveiMil> hmm, can you set the thickness? like bold? 20:19:15 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:19:53 <avdg> AveiMil: some fonts have a separate fat version 20:22:26 <AveiMil> guess everthing that used medium font style woudl be affected then 20:22:33 <AveiMil> medium_size = 16 was much better with default font 20:25:37 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:23 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 20:30:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:35:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-52-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:41:54 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:49:27 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:52:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-127-39.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:25 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-11-2.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:54:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:00:26 <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: besides, the prince of Hessen was chosen to be king of Finland, so... 21:01:57 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has left #openttd [] 21:03:26 *** pyth [~dirkjan@5352D707.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: pyth] 21:04:23 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 21:04:26 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@92-249-141-146.pool.digikabel.hu] has left #openttd [] 21:14:00 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaac08.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:16:40 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-11-2.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:53 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-116-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:18:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:23:36 *** roelmb [Guest848@251.32-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #openttd 21:23:48 *** roelmb [Guest848@251.32-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #openttd [] 21:28:52 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: Farewell] 21:29:09 *** APTX [~APTX@chello089077244008.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 21:30:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-116-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:30:47 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:30:51 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF84AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:32:29 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-63-40.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:32:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:41:30 *** asnoehu [~thok@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:46:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:43 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:26 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 21:56:02 *** jpcooper [jpcooper@host86-171-54-59.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:56:04 <jpcooper> hello 21:57:10 <jpcooper> I'm trying to fully understand what the definition of block is. From http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals, I see "A block of track consists of all track tiles reachable from a given piece of track without crossing over signals". 21:57:42 <Belugas> hello 21:57:47 <jpcooper> In the "Limitations" section of "Building Presignals", "An important point to note with exit signals is that a green exit signal will trigger a green on the entry pre-signal at the beginning of the block even if it is not actually possible for a train to get to that exit signal because of the track layout (as in the image to the right with a train entering on the bottom track). This can ruin 21:57:47 <jpcooper> more complicated presignaling setups, so care needs to be taken with planning." is written 21:58:25 <jpcooper> the "even if it is not actually possible for a train to get to that exit signal because of the track layout" part conufuses me. Are two different definitions of reachability being used? 22:00:45 <Belugas> maybe two different types of signals ? 22:01:18 *** wollollo [~martin@client-80-4-249-45.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:19 <frosch123> jpcooper: the latter is right, the former is wrong 22:02:35 <jpcooper> I don't understand why the top exit signal should have a bearing on the bottom entry signal if it is not possible to reach the top exit signal when going through the bottom entry signal 22:03:48 <jpcooper> frosch123, so what in fact is a block? 22:04:45 <frosch123> all rails of one player and one railtype touching each other and not separated by signals 22:04:57 <frosch123> though the "one railtype" might not be true anymore 22:05:03 <jpcooper> great. That makes sense 22:06:33 <jpcooper> also I get the idea that bi-directional lines aren't so common. How can I get a train to choose the correct path at a junction if there are two-way signals? 22:07:10 <frosch123> two-way signals are _very_ uncommon :p 22:07:32 <Belugas> time to go! 22:07:48 <Belugas> concrete powder to transport tonight 22:07:51 <jpcooper> so do people normally lay one rail for each direction in a route? 22:07:56 <Belugas> real life.. burk 22:08:12 <Belugas> that's the case most of the time, jpcooper 22:08:16 <frosch123> use normal path signals instead for single rail connections 22:09:26 <jpcooper> okay. I haven't read about those yet 22:09:32 <jpcooper> thanks all for the help 22:09:38 <frosch123> orientate the path signal so the save waiting point is on the track, and not on the entry/exit side 22:09:59 <Zuu> jpcooper: As far as I've been informed, in Germany they have only capability to run trains on the "right" track, but not on the wrong one in case of unbalance in the network. 22:10:33 <Zuu> Other countries do have signals and switches for running eg two north going trains in parallel on the tracks in case it is needed. 22:11:33 <frosch123> trains cannot overtake each other on directly neighboured tracks 22:11:33 <Zuu> But generally in OpenTTD most people build tracks as eg. germany do. 22:11:41 <frosch123> they fall of the track that way 22:12:04 <jpcooper> right I understand. I hadn't really thought about the real life case 22:12:05 <frosch123> so directly neighboured tracks can only be operated in opposite directions 22:13:05 <Zuu> Oh and for other countries than Sweden and Germany I don't know, so I can't really say what is most common in Europe or the rest of the world. 22:13:45 <Rubidium> Zuu: oh, here just half the trains don't run or something at all :) 22:14:16 <Zuu> because of lack of maintanence? 22:14:38 <Rubidium> in effect I would say yes :) 22:14:50 <Zuu> hehe :-) 22:15:15 <Rubidium> there was some fire and apparantly either the signal/switch control systems got too hot or they got too wet 22:15:33 * Zuu hopes for the best of people in our captital that the brakes on the metro will work this winter. :-) 22:15:54 <Rubidium> so now the central control for the Dutch railways is down... and it'll probably be down tomorrow as wel 22:16:22 <Rubidium> but then... there not that many people going by train 22:16:28 <jpcooper> what's the reasoning for delivering over longer distances giving higher returns? Is there any other kind of penalty? 22:16:39 <Rubidium> and most routes aren't fully saturated yet 22:16:39 <glx> time 22:16:42 <Zuu> Doesn't sound too good if the central control is down.. 22:16:52 <jpcooper> yes good point 22:18:30 <Rubidium> Zuu: nah, interesting fact is that the same system was down like two years ago and that took days as well 22:19:05 <Rubidium> and apparantly they haven't figured out how to not make a big mess of it 22:20:17 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:20:27 <Rubidium> if only tomorrow would be a Tuesday or Thursday with a sudden unpredicted massive snow storm in the early afternoon :) 22:21:09 <Zuu> and you would sit home and watch it all happen :-) 22:21:42 <Rubidium> sadly enough I would 22:24:32 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0ef2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:19 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B775A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:41:47 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:00 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.54.90] has joined #openttd 22:43:42 <planetmaker> [23:06] <frosch123> though the "one railtype" might not be true anymore <-- has never been 22:50:03 *** bryjen [~bryjen@63.147.94.149] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:59:18 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe8bde00-63.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:03:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:08:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21261 /trunk/src/table/roadveh_movement.h: -Codechange: beat some sense into some variable names 23:12:03 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:24:48 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-96.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 23:28:33 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 23:28:52 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:55 *** wollollo [~martin@client-80-4-249-45.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:12 *** ctibor [~quassel@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 23:33:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:48:01 *** green-devil [~agw@0603ds4-abc.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 23:49:36 <Terkhen> good night 23:49:38 *** Arie- [~Arie@82-169-69-154.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [] 23:50:07 <Rubidium> night Terkhen 23:50:12 <Rubidium> sweet dreams 23:54:45 *** jpcooper [jpcooper@host86-171-54-59.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:53 *** jpcooper [jpcooper@host217-42-99-181.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:55:01 *** jpcooper [jpcooper@host217-42-99-181.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 23:57:25 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has quit []