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00:01:48 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 00:01:55 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:09 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.53.144] has joined #openttd 00:06:55 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 00:16:02 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: yexo * r21440 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp strings_func.h townname.cpp): -Codechange: pass a pointer to just past the end of the argv array around in FormatString and friends 00:17:03 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: yexo * r21441 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Codechange: check all accesses to the argv array so a bad NewGRF can 'only' trigger an assert but no longer cause an invalid memory read 00:24:15 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-143-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 00:27:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:29:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:33:03 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-104-60.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:47:12 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:49:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:54:01 <supermop> hhi all 01:03:34 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 01:16:03 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3BC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:22:30 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:40:57 <polymorphZ> hi 01:41:13 <polymorphZ> anyone plaing? 01:44:15 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:39 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:07:33 *** APTX_ is now known as APTX 02:08:33 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:28:09 *** 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peer] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B741E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7370D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:34:26 <Suzari> -blinks- 06:35:04 *** Suzari [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has quit [Quit: User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby] 06:35:18 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 07:08:39 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has joined #openttd 07:13:15 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:42 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:59 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 07:15:52 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:18:18 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:19:45 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:20:45 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08955d.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:27 <planetmaker> moin 08:08:44 <PulseNeon> Hello! 08:09:35 <avdg> hi 08:15:38 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 08:16:09 <IchGuckLive> Good morning from Frech snowed Germany 4inch 08:16:22 <PulseNeon> haha nice. 08:17:06 <Mortomes|Work> Heh 08:17:16 <Mortomes|Work> It's darker outside now than when I left home 2 hours ago 08:17:24 <IchGuckLive> Question on subsidy : if a bus service reatched the offer ,can i build a train service there and get the same multplier 08:21:17 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:17 <polymorphZ> hey 08:24:24 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: retro] 08:24:47 <IchGuckLive> B) 08:26:20 <PulseNeon> Hello! 08:26:48 <Terkhen> good morning 08:26:52 <IchGuckLive> Question on subsidy : if a bus service reatched the offer ,can i build a train service there and get the same multplier 08:27:04 <PulseNeon> IckGluckLive: I think they do count, as -long- as it's between the same cities 08:28:01 <PulseNeon> And the same cargo 08:28:05 <IchGuckLive> so i will do so in 5min we will now more 08:30:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3BC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:28 <IchGuckLive> Yes it does 08:43:46 *** snorre [~snorre@c692BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 08:57:23 <IchGuckLive> by 08:57:28 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@88-134-59-132-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 09:02:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:07:10 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 09:13:53 *** FauxFaux [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:11 *** retro [~retro@ip-62-245-83-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:17:08 *** retro [~retro@ip-62-245-83-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 10:06:43 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-252.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:08:48 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has left #openttd [] 10:46:57 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@office01.ldhosting.com] has joined #openttd 10:47:44 <LadyHawk> forgive me if this has been noted, or already addressed in a nightly.. i found an issue with grouping trains and send for servicing 10:48:03 <LadyHawk> i have 2 groups of trains, 1 group i sent for servicing, but the second group also took the order 10:48:32 <LadyHawk> i have ottd 1.0.5 without nightlies 10:49:19 <V453000> interesting 10:49:53 <LadyHawk> the 2nd group has a forced service on it's route so it's unneccessarily blocking the track off now lol 10:50:42 <LadyHawk> the 2nd group seemed to be fine at first, no order showing and they kept loading.. maybe because they were too far from a depot at the time i dont know 10:50:56 <LadyHawk> but by the time they reached the place group 1 went to the depot, the 2nd joined in 10:51:10 <LadyHawk> i have breakdowns set to 0 and servicing off so that can't be a coincidence 10:53:50 <Terkhen> LadyHawk: are you sure you had "Group 1" selected when you used the "Send for service" order? 10:54:03 <LadyHawk> just watching the trains now... a train from group 2 seems to continue it's normal order, not noting the depot order.. but once it reaches the 'Path Signal' by the station (PBS) they change their order to the servicing one 10:54:06 <LadyHawk> yes i am sure 10:55:05 <LadyHawk> i can try and let the mess clear in my saved game and do it again to make sure 10:55:31 *** fjb is now known as Guest447 10:55:32 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFF6F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:58:00 <Terkhen> LadyHawk: if you can reproduce the problem, you should report the savegame and the required actions to trigger the problem to http://bugs.openttd.org/ 11:00:03 <LadyHawk> ok will do, just trying it again but there's 1 condition i can't recreate right now.. the trains seem fine this round 11:02:53 *** Guest447 [~frank@p5DDFD0F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:10 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 11:05:42 <polymorphZ> hey-ho 11:10:18 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:17:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-158-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:18:22 <LadyHawk> i want drive through train servicing stations, sorta like the drive through bus stop, so 1 train can go in and 1 out at same time 11:18:28 * LadyHawk digs forums 11:19:24 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-243-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 11:19:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 11:21:09 <LadyHawk> just the same as a regular train depot, just with track on 2 sides instead of 1 11:22:26 <Terkhen> LadyHawk: IIRC they call them RoRo stations 11:22:55 <b_jonas> Terkhen: ror stations are stations, she asked for depots 11:23:31 <Terkhen> hmm... there was a patch to get depots to work like that, but to my knowledge it never was finished 11:24:41 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/depots.PNG 11:24:57 <LadyHawk> i use that right now but since there's 1 way tracking systems, there should be like 1 way train depots to go with it 11:26:26 <b_jonas> so what would be the advantage of these drive-through depots? 11:27:32 <LadyHawk> adaptability to a 1 way track system that you dont have right now, on a heavily used 1 way track system, the screeny i posted doesn't work because each train waits in effect for 2 trains (1 going in, then it coming out) 11:28:35 <b_jonas> if you put the depots next to stations, there's less wait I think 11:28:43 <b_jonas> because the trains don't have to slow down as much 11:29:05 <Terkhen> I prefer to not place the depots directly in the mainline 11:29:13 <b_jonas> I usually put depots next to station entrances, with the entrance part guarded by path signals 11:29:32 <LadyHawk> if you have 1 way tracks everywhere, and put depots by all stations, trains end up going wrong because they want to reach the closest depot, rather than a depot on their own route 11:29:49 <LadyHawk> when they go wrong they stop listening to stuff like entrance/exit signals 11:30:00 <LadyHawk> and block everything off completely until you rebuild the track yourself 11:30:15 <b_jonas> one-way path signals help there 11:30:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make depot orders 11:30:32 <b_jonas> that as well 11:31:20 <LadyHawk> all trains forced into 1 depot again, slows them down because each train will block the next one off twice 11:31:34 <LadyHawk> a block of 'choose 1 out of 4 available' is quicker, but can't do that with an order 11:31:41 *** lugo [lugo@195.3.138.104] has joined #openttd 11:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 11:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> use waypoints 11:32:53 <b_jonas> LadyHawk: there's a go to nearest depot order, isn't there? 11:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> [waypoint]-[signal]-[switch-block]-[depots] 11:33:10 <b_jonas> you can put that after stations in the order list, and put multiple depots at the station exit 11:33:19 <Eddi|zuHause> "goto waypoint, if need servicing . choose nearest depot" 11:33:50 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, that sounds nice 11:34:18 <LadyHawk> 'go to nearest depot' is what makes trains go wrong.. and the switch block thing is what i got now, in a central place without the way point 11:34:38 <b_jonas> but I still think the right place for most rail depots is at signal exits or entrances because anywhere else trains going to it will have to slow down unnecessarily 11:34:41 <LadyHawk> trains seemed to understand they had no choice but to go through that so i didn't see the point of placing a waypoint lol 11:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: yes, excactly that is why you need the waypoint. you put it in a place where the "wrong" depots are not reachable anymore 11:35:55 <LadyHawk> so train goes from station -> waypoint -> station 11:36:11 <LadyHawk> when train is in between station -> waypoint, and reaches a send for servicing order from the list 11:36:14 <LadyHawk> where will it go 11:36:18 <LadyHawk> nearest depot 11:36:25 <LadyHawk> not the depot along its route by the waypoint 11:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: it won't get send to depot notices anymore 11:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> except right after the waypoint 11:37:19 <LadyHawk> goto train overview -> manage list -> send for servicing ? 11:37:55 <LadyHawk> i have breakdowns 0 and servicing off so to replace them i have to use those XD 11:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: i'm not sure about that. i meant the periodical servicing mostly 11:38:30 <LadyHawk> 1 group of trains has a forced block, but another needs to receive an order from that list 11:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: if replacement is set, they automatically go for servicing, even if servicing is off 11:38:39 <LadyHawk> need a central depot block for that or they block stations 11:39:06 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/nodepot.PNG 11:39:39 <LadyHawk> put a depot there, trains will go towards it and end up blocking the exit signals in the stations where a train's already waiting 11:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> sending _all_ trains to depot simultaneously is bound to cause problems... 11:39:46 <LadyHawk> entrance/exit signals get ignored 11:40:11 <b_jonas> LadyHawk: that's why I'm saying use block signals or one-way path signals 11:40:22 <b_jonas> use two-way path signals only where they're really needed 11:41:58 <LadyHawk> hmmm i dont think i have the space to do that with realistic acceleration 11:43:01 <b_jonas> didn't you say you're using one-way tracks anyway? 11:43:08 <b_jonas> what do you not have the space for then? 11:43:31 <b_jonas> it is okay to use the two-way path signals right at terminus stations where trains go two way 11:44:31 <b_jonas> but like this: two-way path signal from the station tracks to the switcher part, but one-way path signals from the entry lines to the switcher part, and one-way signals from the switcher to the exit lines 11:44:36 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/madness.PNG 11:45:18 <b_jonas> oh, you mean at the crossings? 11:45:27 <b_jonas> what on earth are all those industries? 11:45:39 <LadyHawk> the loading stations in the circled tracks 11:45:43 <LadyHawk> they're all iron ore mines 11:45:52 <LadyHawk> there'll be 200+ trains going to a 13 track offload station 11:46:01 <LadyHawk> i like challenging builds :) 11:46:12 <b_jonas> that might be harder 11:46:26 <b_jonas> I don't have any practice in such large networks, so I can't give good advice 11:46:49 <LadyHawk> the station setup itself i got the hang of, i've had 180 trains on it ok 11:46:58 <LadyHawk> just the track leading to the station got a bit clogged 11:47:05 <LadyHawk> so i restarted trying a different setup 11:47:28 <LadyHawk> 1 central circle, and 'wings', rather than a circled grid 11:50:17 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/madness1.PNG < shows directions 11:51:04 <peter1138> gosh, it's flat 11:51:04 <LadyHawk> something like this would love to see 2 trains accessing a depot, 1 going in, 1 going out the other end :) 11:51:24 <b_jonas> and it has very few trees or towns too 11:51:26 <peter1138> i guess an improved mountain range and river generator wouldn't be in your list of priorities :p 11:51:31 <LadyHawk> lol 11:51:43 <LadyHawk> trees obstruct my view so i left those out XD 11:51:49 <LadyHawk> and a mountain range would only get leveled anyway 11:51:52 <LadyHawk> lol 11:52:12 <b_jonas> LadyHawk: you couldn't level it completely if industries are at different heights 11:52:16 <LadyHawk> same with the river 11:52:44 <LadyHawk> i didn't really make the map to tackle world obstacles though 11:52:57 <LadyHawk> i build it so i could see just how efficient i could build my train tracks 11:53:01 <LadyHawk> pushing it to the limit 11:53:23 <b_jonas> also mountains are not as much of a challenge if you (1) have build with foundations and autoslope, (2) use realistic acceleration, (3) have lots of money, (4) don't have to worry about chopping down trees hurting your town reputations. 11:54:24 <b_jonas> unless you want ships. 11:54:32 <LadyHawk> i'm no expert, if i see something that doesn't work fast compared to the rest, i try and rebuild it.. what i found so far is having to merge say.. 8 lanes to 3, take steps, 8->5->3 and give all merging tracks the option to take 2 different tracks except for the outer ones 11:54:51 <LadyHawk> so if a train's merging, they have the option to take another lane 11:54:55 <LadyHawk> stuff like that 11:55:56 <LadyHawk> giving a train the option to take 3 different tracks.. slows them down for the chance that 1 train blocks everything off 11:56:44 <LadyHawk> the main obstacle i have is the depots being forced 2 way, not 1 way 11:56:54 <LadyHawk> doesn't fit XD 12:00:22 <LadyHawk> thinking about it though, a train depot like that could be too easy, unless you make their exit slightly slower than their entrance.. to avoid people from just plopping them in the central track 12:01:03 <b_jonas> presumably trains would still have to slow down whenever they enter it, just like at normal depots 12:01:09 <LadyHawk> yeah 12:01:57 <LadyHawk> but thinking about them entering and exiting at the same speed... there wouldn't be any difference in having 200 trains on 1 track all going down 1 depot.. no waiting for eachother, no slowdowns because they'll all have the exact same speed 12:02:34 <LadyHawk> slow their exit more than their entrance.. and trains end up queueing up inside the depot.. keeping people from doing it the easy way because they all just clump up 12:02:43 <LadyHawk> i dunno 12:03:00 <b_jonas> if you wanted to play that way, you'd just set the options to no service and trains never getting old and starting in year 3000 with the best maglevs. 12:03:46 <LadyHawk> that'd be boring.. maglevs aren't affected by the realistic accel slowdown in turns 12:04:13 <LadyHawk> it's more fun having to build a depot into it 12:04:25 <LadyHawk> mroe of a challenge 12:04:26 <LadyHawk> heheehe 12:04:59 <b_jonas> your screenshots seem to have lots of sharp turns though 12:05:17 <b_jonas> and yes, it would be boring 12:05:29 <LadyHawk> there's not a single slowdown turn in the entire track 12:05:45 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has joined #openttd 12:05:45 <LadyHawk> except for maybe the loading station exits, i'm not sure 12:05:57 <LadyHawk> but they're already slow there so that doesn't matter much to me 12:07:24 <b_jonas> how long are your trains? 12:07:44 <LadyHawk> 3 bits of grid, loco + 5 cars 12:07:59 <LadyHawk> sorta stuck with me since yeh olden ttdx days 12:08:00 <b_jonas> oh, so that's why those corners don't slow them down 12:08:13 <LadyHawk> ? 12:08:35 <LadyHawk> i haven't noticed any slowdowns with any lenght on those turns.. 1 normal, 3 diag, 1 normal for a turn's always seemed fine 12:08:39 <LadyHawk> but maybe i missed it i dunno 12:08:47 <b_jonas> um... are your trains maybe already slow? 12:08:54 <LadyHawk> no, top speed 12:09:05 <b_jonas> wait, are you even playing realistic acceleration? 12:09:08 <LadyHawk> yeah 12:09:21 <LadyHawk> if i didn't, the bridges to cross would block everything off lol 12:09:34 <LadyHawk> the 7 lenght stations are to account for their early slowdown into stations 12:10:38 <b_jonas> I guess your trains are just shorter than your corners 12:11:10 <LadyHawk> http://ladyhawk.flawlesscorruption.net/screens/turns.PNG 12:11:14 <LadyHawk> those not work for all lenghts? 12:11:35 <b_jonas> not according to the wiki I think 12:11:40 <LadyHawk> hmm 12:11:48 <b_jonas> look at http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Trains and http://wiki.openttd.org/Corners 12:11:51 <LadyHawk> i guess in that case i'm learning something new 12:11:54 * LadyHawk goes reading 12:12:16 <LadyHawk> i figured because the turn itself isn't quite 90 degrees it would be fine 12:13:34 <LadyHawk> interesting 12:14:02 <LadyHawk> thanks :o 12:14:52 <LadyHawk> trying to work out that long train's max speed now on that picture, 4x 45 turns 12:15:51 <b_jonas> you could just look at the status window of the train in game, for it shows the current speed 12:16:30 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has joined #openttd 12:16:32 <LadyHawk> yeah i know that 12:18:10 <LadyHawk> the tiles counting the diagonal tracks.. and this counts for as long as the train doesn't fit in between the bends because that counts as being only 1x45 for that train 12:18:29 <LadyHawk> 6 long trains would need 12:18:48 <LadyHawk> i'll just have to build one and see 12:19:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-173-122.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 12:19:15 <b_jonas> though of course your network might get efficient if you had fewer but longer trains 12:19:52 <LadyHawk> without a doubt 12:20:06 <LadyHawk> but then i wouldn't have to try and make my tracks so efficient 12:20:24 <LadyHawk> less traffic, less challenge lol 12:22:29 <LadyHawk> weee got it, 6 long trains, 5 diagonals.. guess my setup isn't as effective as i thought XD 12:24:56 <LadyHawk> i love the complexity of such a simple game, best of its kind 12:41:06 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd 12:41:09 *** norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice1n2.emea.ibm.com] has left #openttd [] 12:47:01 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 12:49:56 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:02:51 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.53.144] has joined #openttd 13:04:03 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:47 *** LadyHawk [LadyHawk@office01.ldhosting.com] has quit [Quit: file ran away] 13:33:22 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72178f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:50:06 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:14 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:16 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:18 *** __ln__ [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 13:58:25 *** SpComb^ [terom@zerg.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 13:58:28 *** rasco [rasco@tietos.com] has joined #openttd 14:06:22 *** richardu1 [~richardus@ip24-252-13-201.om.om.cox.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:12 *** richardus [~richardus@ip24-252-13-201.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:34 <Belugas> hello 14:13:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c002:5024:5f21:78ec] has joined #openttd 14:18:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:32:38 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:56 *** DayDreamer [~pouzara@80.95.101.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:53:24 <Belugas> muwhahahaha!!!! 14:53:42 <Belugas> we have, in our app, a messaging system 14:53:44 <Belugas> it's more like... 14:53:52 <Belugas> drop a message on database, 14:53:59 <Belugas> wait for polling to pick it 14:54:13 <Belugas> and the HO database will advise mail recipient 14:54:15 <Belugas> so.. 14:54:26 <Belugas> there is this new customer who says that the process is too slow 14:54:32 <Belugas> so he wanted instant messaging 14:54:39 <Belugas> i told him it already exists 14:54:48 <Belugas> it's Called EMAIL! 15:02:38 <dih> email is not instant :-P 15:02:44 <Mortomes|Work> issue status: Rejected Reason: e-mail 15:02:53 <Rubidium> no form of communication is instant 15:03:01 <glx> msn is ;) 15:03:15 <glx> IRC too 15:03:17 <dih> for certain definitions of instant ^^ 15:03:20 <planetmaker> ^ 15:03:44 <SmatZ> email is sometimes instant enough :) 15:03:49 <dih> define 'instant' somewhat broader, and then Belugas messaging thing is 'instant' too 15:03:55 <planetmaker> I guess I could aquire 50000 frames with the camera next door in that time between you press enter and I read it ;-) 15:04:12 <SmatZ> :) 15:04:14 <dih> planetmaker, that's just because you read too slowly :-P 15:04:21 <SmatZ> how many fps does it record? 15:04:29 <dih> there - you see - it's taking pictures :-P 15:04:35 <SmatZ> :P 15:04:47 <dih> 50000 clicks will take a while 15:04:48 <planetmaker> Depends on the image size I select. Something from 1000 ... 62000 15:05:03 <SmatZ> :) 15:05:27 <planetmaker> 1kfps @ 1Mpixel. And then scale down ;-) 15:05:48 <SmatZ> impressive :) 15:05:57 <SmatZ> the gigabytes! 15:06:20 <planetmaker> hehe. yeah. It records max. 4 seconds 15:06:26 <SmatZ> a terabyte in few seconds :) 15:06:36 <planetmaker> then the 4GByte internal memory are full and you first have to readout 15:06:54 <planetmaker> or you have to go for much slower speed which GBit ethernet can support 15:07:16 <SmatZ> true, not "few seconds" 15:07:52 <dih> planetmaker, why does it not have a 10Gb ethernet connection? :-P 15:08:07 <planetmaker> because I know of no manufacturer who offers such cam. 15:08:14 <dih> pfff 15:08:41 <planetmaker> especially if it has to be crash-hardened as well :-P 15:08:54 <dih> hehe 15:09:19 <SmatZ> it is that camera you let fall down from the tower? 15:09:29 <planetmaker> one of those, yes 15:09:33 <SmatZ> :) 15:09:50 <Belugas> hein? 15:09:52 <dih> the cam is soo fast, the 2nd frame captures light before the 1st frame gets it :-P 15:10:22 <planetmaker> that's called interlaced, dih ;-) 15:10:28 <dih> if you move just as fast, you could capture yourself taking a picture 15:10:29 <planetmaker> Luckily it's not that "fast" :-P 15:10:36 <SmatZ> :D 15:10:50 <roboboy> gnight 15:11:02 <SmatZ> night roboboy 15:11:12 <Belugas> if onlyit was true for me :( 15:11:20 <Belugas> rest well roboboy 15:14:02 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA527.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:15:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:18:57 *** Mortomes|Work [~MortomesW@mail.qps.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:19:02 *** Doorslammer [770b005e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:20:08 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21442 /trunk/src/subsidy.cpp: -Fix [FS#4293] (r21412): don't use the current company for awarding subsidies; it's not quite valid there 15:24:49 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:26:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:12 *** Spoons [faux@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:27:20 *** Spoons is now known as FauxFaux 15:27:56 *** APTX [~APTX@89-77-244-8.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:31 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:41:56 *** Doorslammer [770b005e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:46:58 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has joined #openttd 15:48:06 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:48 *** Doorslammer [770b0669@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:02:09 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72178f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:02:26 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72178f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:06:56 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:11:12 <dih> Rubidium, what do you think of a method to inject settings into clients for the current multiplayer game? 16:11:15 <dih> :-P 16:11:34 <dih> only for relevant settings of course 16:11:55 <Yexo> inject settings into clients/ what is that supposed to mean? 16:12:41 <ccfreak2k> Probably means change gameplay settings for that session. 16:12:48 <dih> server being able to set a client setting 16:12:56 <Yexo> the normal game settings can already be changed via rcon and if it is about the client-side only settings, why should the server change those? 16:12:59 <Yexo> they're client-side for a reason 16:15:10 <dih> something like drag_signals_density 16:15:49 <dih> prefer_teamchat 16:16:14 <Rubidium> those are client settings for a reason 16:16:38 <dih> assume you are in a game with 200 clients (i am using the word 'assume' for a reason :-P) 16:16:43 <Rubidium> and pushing server settings to the client will override the clients settings for new and other games as well 16:16:46 <dih> every body using public chat 16:17:03 <dih> hence they should only be active for the current session 16:17:21 <Rubidium> way too much work for too little benefit 16:17:24 <dih> you could then enforce 'team chat' to be the default 16:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: i think you got the answer ;) 16:17:33 <dih> yep i did :-P 16:18:12 <Rubidium> as we'd need to keep track of the settings the server forced down to the client and make sure only those settings are reset to what the client had before, whereas all the other client settings that the client updated while playing the game are synced with the global settings 16:18:28 <Rubidium> not to mention that it then becomes a guess game which settings are per-game and which are global 16:18:39 <dih> one could use a server setting variable 16:18:47 <dih> which would override the client side setting 16:18:53 <Ammler> you could rather make some settings company dependend 16:19:03 <Rubidium> Ammler: that already exists... 16:19:21 <Rubidium> dih: but what if the client wants to override the server setting? 16:19:40 <Rubidium> how do you keep track of the variables that came from the server and which didn't? 16:20:10 <dih> the ones from the server are in the respective 'server settings' var 16:20:20 <Rubidium> there has been enough problems with "newgame" settings already, so adding two new "states" of client settings 16:20:37 <dih> yeah - that is true 16:20:43 <Rubidium> dih: but that 'server settings' var contains *all* "client" settings 16:20:58 <dih> however, the server settings can be dumped, as they should only be relevant for the current game 16:20:59 <Rubidium> as you would be allowed to set any setting 16:21:20 <dih> the server settings could merely contain those settings the server is allowed to influence 16:21:29 <planetmaker> he. Forcing client-side settings from the server to the client seems conceptionally as wrong as it can get. 16:21:39 <dih> :-P 16:21:49 <Rubidium> dih: please describe to me how to get the drag signal setting in your vision 16:21:54 <planetmaker> Those then stop being client-side settings at that very point 16:21:58 <Rubidium> for the follow cases 16:22:03 <Rubidium> 1) server doesn't set it 16:22:06 <Rubidium> 2) server does set it 16:22:12 <Rubidium> 3) server does set it but client overrides it 16:22:27 <dih> 1) does not happen 16:22:29 <Rubidium> 4) server doesn't set it but client changes 16:22:40 <dih> 2) and 3) server defines a minimum possible value 16:23:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 9-state-logic :) 16:23:05 <Rubidium> if 1 doesn't happen, then you *always* override *all* client settings 16:23:35 <planetmaker> yeah. Forcing all players to play the game in arabic language. Hilarity ensues 16:23:44 <ccfreak2k> Signal spacing when drag constructing them? 16:23:54 <dih> you are not supposed to override *all* but be able to define a certain selection of client settings 16:24:05 <planetmaker> Then they're not client settings 16:24:22 <dih> what if you only want to define a minimum 16:24:36 <dih> but never mind :-P 16:24:49 <planetmaker> Minimum language id <3 16:24:50 <Rubidium> dih: no, I want to know *how* you want to implement it 16:25:12 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-243-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:16 <Rubidium> planetmaker: no, language 5B :) 16:25:21 <dih> first of all, only a few settings should be overrideable 16:25:25 <dih> not all of them 16:25:47 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: you are thinking this from the wrong direction, i think 16:25:51 <Rubidium> as how you explain it the server's configuration can define a subsection of settings that it will override at the client 16:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> what you actually need is a server side setting: minimum signal distance 16:26:04 <dih> ah - no, sorry 16:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> and the client checks this minimum with the client setting 16:26:22 <dih> the server can code wise only override a few settings 16:26:29 <dih> langauge definately not being one of them 16:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> only hacked clients can then override this minimum 16:26:53 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and anybody building signal by signal 16:26:57 <planetmaker> or people just build signals manually. 16:27:03 <dih> yes 16:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes. 16:27:17 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-167-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 16:27:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dih: anyway, this way, no new way of enforcing settings needs to be introduced 16:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> only the new server side setting, and a validation routine for the client side setting 16:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really understand what you wanted to achieve with the team chat setting... 16:29:20 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: and where does that validation happen? 16:29:38 <Rubidium> does that happen on the client's global client side settings? 16:30:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't know these details about the settings system 16:30:24 <Rubidium> the only thing I see this doing is arbitrarily changing (global) user side settings based on the server you're joining 16:31:05 <Rubidium> *if* I join a server to spectate I don't want my settings to become mutilated 16:31:26 <Rubidium> *if* I join a server and start a new company I don't want my settings to become mutilated 16:31:50 <dih> on the client side, one could (mis)use the newgame settings ^^ 16:31:58 <Rubidium> no you can't 16:32:06 <Rubidium> as that doesn't store the client side settings 16:32:16 <dih> oh 16:32:19 <Rubidium> client side settings are stored *completely* separated from the game settings 16:32:32 <dih> ah ok 16:32:34 <Rubidium> also changing newgame settings means mutilating the global settings 16:33:11 <dih> actaully looking at the settings, i cannot find enough settings which would be worthwhile wanting to change from the server side ^^ 16:33:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there are several ways to approach this, but each has its own downsides 16:33:37 *** Tennel [~Tennel@88.150.10.194] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: e.g. you could enforce the minimum only on command execution, that way, the setting itself is unaffected, but visual representation in the signal gui might be off 16:34:29 <Rubidium> and all of them will be a maintenance issue 16:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or you could also change the visual representation, but then that one is not in sync with the setting anymore, which can cause other confusion 16:35:07 <Rubidium> there's already enough problems with "game" and "newgame" settings, so please don't add another load of nuances to the system 16:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> or you enforce the actual setting walue, which has the side effects you mentioned earlier 16:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not defending the idea 16:35:40 <dih> Rubidium, what are the issues with 'newgame' settings? 16:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just stating options 16:36:02 <Rubidium> dih: e.g. I set the pathfinder penalties in the config file and it doesn't work with my savegame 16:36:41 <Rubidium> dih: e.g. I set the pathfinder in the game, but when starting a new game it is using another pathfinder 16:37:44 <dih> i can understand the first one 16:38:17 <dih> the second one i do not follow, if you change pathfinder stuff in the newgame settings and issue a newgame command, the new settings are not used? 16:38:44 <Rubidium> you change them in the *game* settings, not the *newgame* settings 16:39:27 <dih> ah 16:39:45 <planetmaker> you should play more, dih ;-) 16:39:47 <dih> is that wrong? 16:40:02 <dih> it may not always be expected 16:40:08 <Rubidium> dih: no, it's the right behaviour but it confuses many "noobs" 16:40:31 <planetmaker> yep. Otherwise my settings would change upon every load of a savegame 16:40:49 <dih> ok, but that is not a problem with the game / newgame settings, that is a problem with assumptions some people make 16:41:07 <Rubidium> adding *extra* layers of that, one that only applies to "random" settings when joining a server but only some servers, isn't something I'd aim for 16:41:44 <dih> yep - can understand that :-) 16:42:37 <Rubidium> the game/newgame stuff is predictable, what you propose adds a whole slurry of parameters and dependencies making it a nightmare to understand 16:43:01 <dih> that for sure is true 16:43:44 <Rubidium> besides that you haven't come up with a sane and simple method that works for the 4 cases I described before 16:44:00 <dih> true too :-P 16:44:01 <Rubidium> and I can't think of a sane (or simple) method 16:44:08 <dih> though i would like to add the word 'yet' :-P 16:44:58 <Rubidium> "and yet I can't think of a sane (or simple) method" 16:45:49 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:56 <supermop> hello 16:46:21 <dih> "you haven't come up with a sane and simple method _yet_" 16:46:28 <dih> ^^ 16:47:18 <dih> anyhow, there are still a few things that could be done for the admin network anyway :-) 16:50:18 <planetmaker> moin supermop 16:50:32 <planetmaker> yep, command logging could be done :-P 16:50:45 <Belugas> that may by why there are more servers than players... looks like all the fun is nw to be an admin 16:50:48 <planetmaker> or actually, a working bot might be more important 16:51:18 <planetmaker> Belugas, would be nice, if those servers were really administered. And not just setup and left to decay 16:51:30 * Belugas nods 16:51:41 <Belugas> although i never thoguh the situation was that bad :) 16:52:16 <Rubidium> planetmaker: you mean all those 1.0.4/1.0.3 servers :) 16:52:39 <Rubidium> or that nightly server that's almost 100 revisions behind 16:52:50 <dih> planetmaker, i have the feeling that command logging should be done differently :-P 16:52:52 <planetmaker> I'll take out the latter :-P 16:53:09 <planetmaker> Or I'd have to check our servers revisions ;-) 16:53:20 <dih> consider each command triggering a lookup if one of the connected bots registered for command logs 16:54:10 <dih> that would be a lot of wasted loops 16:54:27 <Rubidium> how many will generally be connected? 16:54:37 <planetmaker> Rubidium, I've the feeling that statement concerning 'setup and left for decay' could just as well apply to a number of 1.0.5 servers. The older revisions have an unproportionally higher chance to fall within that category, though ;-9 16:54:40 <Rubidium> about 0.5 bots will probably be above average 16:54:57 <planetmaker> We'd probably run 2 or 3 bots on our servers 16:55:13 <planetmaker> logging. rcon bridge. other stuff 16:55:13 <Rubidium> and the looping is in not much more complex than e.g. the current loop 16:55:33 <Rubidium> which checks whether the client's state is high enough to get the command 16:55:34 <dih> for every docommand? 16:55:44 <dih> hmm 16:55:58 <Rubidium> for every command (not DoCommand, but DoCommandP) 16:56:03 <dih> but the chance is higher that most clients get the command 16:56:20 <dih> where as connected bots most likely will not have that package registered for update 16:56:22 <Rubidium> still, it's insignificant 16:56:33 <Rubidium> the chat stuff is probably more expensive 16:56:53 <dih> chat happens less than DoCommandP 16:57:11 <planetmaker> does it? 16:57:26 <planetmaker> Probably Rubidium still knows from the recent logs ;-) 16:57:27 <dih> the one loop is not significant, but accumulated? 16:57:52 <dih> SmatZ should profile that once :-D 16:58:24 <Rubidium> dih: the actual receiving and validating of a command is more expensive than checking 3 bots whether they want it and sending it to one 16:59:31 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:20 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.197.32] has joined #openttd 17:00:57 <dih> you mind if i add a server side setting? admin_cmd_logging 17:01:30 <dih> because i doubt many servers with bots will make use of that ^^ 17:01:40 <dih> i could be wrong though 17:01:46 <dih> as usual ^^ 17:03:21 <planetmaker> IMHO it'd be another service a bot registers for. 17:04:11 <dih> planetmaker, assume 10 bots connected, none of them wanting to do command logging 17:04:22 <planetmaker> and? 17:04:35 <dih> each DoCommandP will trigger looping over 10 bots finding that none of them want the command info 17:04:51 <dih> if you ask me, that's a waste 17:05:01 <planetmaker> <Rubidium> dih: the actual receiving and validating of a command is more expensive than checking 3 bots whether they want it and sending it to one 17:05:13 <planetmaker> so you save exactly 9 ifs 17:05:20 *** APTX [~APTX@89-77-244-8.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 17:05:29 <planetmaker> on the expense of an additional setting 17:05:51 <Rubidium> "We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%." 17:06:02 <Rubidium> I think this falls *definitely* in the 97% category 17:06:18 <planetmaker> I don't really have a strong opinion either way, but... ^ 17:06:26 <dih> :-) 17:06:29 <dih> in that case 17:06:46 <planetmaker> thanks, Rubidium, much better phrased than I could have put it :-) 17:07:00 <dih> at least i try ^^ 17:07:01 <Rubidium> *imagine* a server, with 255 connected clients all pushing commands at the current limits 17:07:23 <planetmaker> all chatting via client-side bots :-P 17:07:29 <Rubidium> you'll have 510 commands incoming, which would be sent to the bots 17:07:34 <dih> client-side bots? 17:07:43 <planetmaker> hacked clients ;-) 17:07:46 <dih> hehe 17:08:00 <dih> @calc 510*16 17:08:00 <DorpsGek> dih: 8160 17:08:32 <Rubidium> now, lets assume the map is 256x256 tiles big 17:09:00 <dih> what if i introduce a uint16 array, one per update type, bitmasked to the bot index wanting the respective update 17:09:00 <Rubidium> the tile loop *alone* is going to be more expensive than checking those few bots whether stuff needs to be sent 17:09:33 <Rubidium> won't be much more efficient 17:09:44 <dih> for _all_ update type together? 17:10:06 <Rubidium> as you'd need to loop over all 16 bits each time, especially if the one bot (#15) is connected 17:10:27 <dih> ah - i though i could loop of the 1 bits only 17:10:44 <Rubidium> while doing so you need to update two counters; one for the bot index and one for the bitmask 17:10:45 <dih> and only loop if the mask is > 0 17:11:11 <Rubidium> dih: yes, you can loop the set bits only, but you still need to figure out which bit that is 17:11:29 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:29 <Rubidium> and with 16 bits that's becoming a mighty big lookup table 17:11:56 <dih> well then :-) 17:12:22 <dih> how can i remove 100 lines from the logs? :-P 17:13:12 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:23 <Rubidium> sed? 17:13:29 <Rubidium> 1,100d (or something like that) 17:13:52 <planetmaker> dih, vi file 100dd 17:14:27 <Rubidium> sed 0,100d -i $file 17:16:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:18:08 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-167-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:22 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-29-188.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:20:26 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:22:51 <Rubidium> so many German translators and still it's like a week out-of-date 17:23:49 <planetmaker> they're all slackers and probably need a spanking 17:26:37 <Terkhen> new icu version, which still cannot be compiled in mingw :( 17:27:00 <Rubidium> oh, no worries... it can't be compiled with MSVC < 2010 either 17:27:14 <Terkhen> :O 17:27:20 <Terkhen> that's even worse 17:27:27 * dih spanks planetmaker 17:27:37 <planetmaker> ha! 17:27:41 * planetmaker also spanks dih 17:27:52 <dih> no fair 17:28:02 <planetmaker> not? You're also a translator ;-) 17:28:23 <planetmaker> thanks for the prod, Rubidium 17:28:25 * SmatZ pokes dih 17:29:06 <dih> oi 17:29:09 <dih> that tickles! 17:29:15 <SmatZ> :) 17:29:27 <Terkhen> if they are even scrapping supported platforms, I should probably stop waiting for a mingw fix :/ 17:31:32 <Terkhen> the error is actually quite stupid; it has an undefined reference to `WinMain@16' while compiling the data library 17:33:54 *** Tennel [~Tennel@dslb-094-223-179-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:40:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08955d.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:40:50 <glx> missing -mconsole ? 17:41:03 <glx> or another flag 17:45:48 <Terkhen> it might be... but I noticed that the error was only present in the dlls so I just disabled building them 17:45:56 <Terkhen> let's see how far it gets now 17:46:36 <Terkhen> not much :P 17:47:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host128-12-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:48:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe232.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:49:45 <Wolf01> hello 17:50:13 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 and frosch123 17:51:06 <frosch123> evening everyone :) 17:56:24 <andythenorth> evenings 18:00:18 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:01:07 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:01:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:05:36 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:07:43 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:56 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 18:09:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:12:07 *** PulseNeon [~pulse.neo@78-40-197-182.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:23 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host6-232-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:12:23 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest492 18:12:23 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 18:13:45 *** Guest492 [~wolf01@host128-12-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:54 <dih> there are more of him... :o 18:14:23 <Wolf01> :D 18:14:36 <Wolf01> dsl problems... 18:17:21 <dih> all of you? 18:19:53 <Wolf01> yeah 18:20:49 <Wolf01> wow, I'm dlding at the wonderful sped of 10.6KB/s 18:20:55 <Wolf01> *speed 18:21:56 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 18:22:33 <Wolf01> 30 now, no 18 18:28:26 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 18:36:21 <andythenorth> bonkers: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49347 18:36:28 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: bbl] 18:42:18 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 18:42:35 <Alberth> insane :) 18:42:43 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [] 18:44:51 <PulseNeon> beatiful XD 18:46:08 <Wolf01> price? 18:46:16 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r21443 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files): 18:46:16 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:46:16 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: croatian - 6 changes by VoyagerOne 18:46:16 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: english_US - 8 changes by Rubidium 18:46:16 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: german - 9 changes by planetmaker 18:46:17 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 changes by IPG 18:46:17 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: serbian - 6 changes by etran 18:48:30 <andythenorth> Wolf01: he estimates â¬1,600 I think 18:48:33 <andythenorth> it's in the thread 18:48:55 <PulseNeon> costly for a set of plastic bricks :/ 18:49:02 <PulseNeon> no wonder Lego is so profitable. 19:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> PulseNeon: i don 19:00:55 <Eddi|zuHause> 't think building such a model of other materials would get much cheaper 19:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "my idea is to build abu simpel and hide a moonbase incl. spaceships in it." <- crazy :p 19:05:01 <andythenorth> those crazy lego geeks :) 19:05:01 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:10 <andythenorth> I don't really understand them a lot of the time 19:05:22 <supermop> me neither 19:05:25 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:05:29 <supermop> what are we talking about 19:05:36 <andythenorth> :D 19:06:03 <andythenorth> do we have users like this? http://news.lugnet.com/general/?n=43860 19:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause> we certainly do. 19:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and once upon a time we actually listened to this kind of people... 19:11:47 <andythenorth> :) 19:11:52 <andythenorth> it's a funny thread 19:12:00 <supermop> yeah 19:12:03 <andythenorth> so many of them miss that they are being satirised 19:12:10 <Wolf01> give a look @ brickshelf.com 19:14:49 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:15:33 <andythenorth> the weird thing about lego fans - they have many of the 'towards autistic' traits of developers. 19:15:49 <andythenorth> but none of the 'bash things together, get stuff done, make progress' attitude 19:15:58 <andythenorth> they always believe stuff is getting worse not better 19:16:05 <andythenorth> developers seem to think stuff gets better 19:16:08 *** ezrakilty [~ezrac@67.110.141.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:14 <supermop> hmm 19:16:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:16:22 <supermop> ive fallen victim to that 19:16:26 <supermop> i love lego, 19:16:38 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:16:44 <supermop> but am generally been disapointed with all of the movie tie-ins 19:17:01 <supermop> still love to buy and play with lego in general though 19:17:11 <andythenorth> me too 19:17:39 <Wolf01> me too ^2 19:17:56 <Wolf01> (or **2) 19:21:24 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 19:21:55 *** Doorslammer [770b0669@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:22:51 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:28 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 19:25:34 *** ezrakilty [~ezrac@67.110.141.71] has joined #openttd 19:29:27 *** ezrakilty [~ezrac@67.110.141.71] has quit [] 19:31:00 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:31:10 *** Chrill [~Chrill@146.244.178.68] has joined #openttd 19:31:17 <supermop> so 19:31:28 <supermop> what prompted all this? 19:31:57 <Chrill> did I arrive at a bad time? 19:33:24 <Rubidium> why would you? :) 19:34:33 <Chrill> "what prompted all this?" sounds like something my mother would say when I had done something bad :( 19:38:20 <Belugas> that's AWESOME andythenorth ! 19:38:30 <Belugas> i just can't imagine the PRICE of that model... 19:38:38 <andythenorth> you don't have to :) 19:38:42 <andythenorth> he put it in the thread 19:38:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:38:51 <andythenorth> not as awesome as a new terrain generator would be :P 19:39:21 <supermop> lego model? 19:39:27 <Alberth> the ship cost 10 months, so you may have to wait a bit longer for something more awesome :) 19:39:49 <andythenorth> supermop: in tgp.cpp 19:39:56 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.239.250] has quit [Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad] 19:39:57 <andythenorth> 'someone' posted some teasing screenshots 19:40:02 <andythenorth> then went down a mine :D 19:40:07 <supermop> tgp.cpp? 19:40:13 <supermop> no idea what that is 19:40:43 <andythenorth> it's what generates maps when you choose terragenesis in new game settings 19:41:32 <supermop> ah 19:42:23 <Alberth> nah, tgp.cpp refers to a c++ source code file of openttd. In it is the algorithm described that the computer uses for generating maps :p 19:42:26 <supermop> my brother and i were talking about ways to make hydrologically correct maps the other day 19:42:59 <supermop> he is a hydrological engineer, so he is always using software to model that stuff 19:43:19 <supermop> no easy way to use it to create ottd maps that we can tell though 19:43:20 <Alberth> nice, we still need rivers :) 19:44:20 *** Chrill [~Chrill@146.244.178.68] has quit [] 19:44:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3BC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3958.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:57 <Belugas> ho... i don't have time to read it all... i'll keep it fr reference :( 19:48:44 <supermop> yeah 19:48:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 19:50:11 <supermop> i mostly am bothered by lakes and valleys which do not flow anywhere 19:51:06 <supermop> partially because the could not have realistically been formed by glaciers or rivers, but mostly because you cannot then run lines up along valleys 19:51:42 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:27 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 19:57:23 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.239.250] has joined #openttd 19:57:28 <andythenorth> wonder how out of my depth I'd get trying to hack rivers 19:57:33 <andythenorth> (no pun intended) 19:57:53 <andythenorth> I need to first find a coast tile 19:58:22 <andythenorth> not easy 19:58:46 <Alberth> a simple tile-loop :p 19:59:05 <andythenorth> the whole map? 20:00:35 <Alberth> more to the point, where should the river go to from the coast? I don't see that 20:01:24 <Alberth> the other way around (find a good startingpoint at land, and then go to the coast) may be easier 20:01:48 *** Qantourisc [~Qantouris@d54C4964E.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: co'o rodo] 20:08:44 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-61.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 20:12:11 <Rubidium> revive TrueBrain's mapgen. That resulted in pretty realistic (height)maps 20:12:53 <andythenorth> Alberth: all rivers have to end at coast 20:13:00 <andythenorth> so starting there guarantees a path 20:13:22 <Rubidium> andythenorth: that's so not real :) 20:13:33 <andythenorth> like, whatever :D 20:13:54 <andythenorth> otherwise here's what's needed: 1. patch to allow half-tile slopes for rivers 20:14:11 <andythenorth> 2. patch to allow rivers to flood depressions, creating lakes 20:14:18 <andythenorth> but preventing griefing in-game 20:14:30 <andythenorth> 3. patch to decide how full a lake should get so they can find an exit 20:14:57 <andythenorth> or alternatively, a path-finder that doesn't build a river if no path to coast is found 20:15:04 <andythenorth> which could be....slow? 20:16:02 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host6-232-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:25 <Terkhen> about 2., I would only activate that behaviour during map generation / scenario editor 20:19:24 <andythenorth> what if the landscape is terraformed? 20:19:35 <andythenorth> disallow terraforming under lakes? 20:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> terraforming destroys the lake 20:21:21 <andythenorth> griefing opp? 20:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 20:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> just clearing the affected tiles 20:22:08 <Eddi|zuHause> creating new shore line if parts of the lake remain 20:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like, exactly what currently happens 20:23:56 <andythenorth> but you could terraform out the walls of the lake... 20:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> don't care. 20:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> don't change the ingame behaviour of lakes/rivers. 20:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it is fine like it is. 20:26:47 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72178f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:27:37 *** goblin [~goblin@krlh-5f72178f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:21 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:33 <andythenorth> currently terraforming just removes rivers? 20:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:33:43 <Terkhen> you can raise the cost to high levels with a grf 20:34:00 <andythenorth> hmm 20:34:04 <andythenorth> rivers have so many edge cases 20:34:37 <supermop> hey sorry was eating lunch 20:34:39 <andythenorth> if I can terraform a single point and block a river....serious griefing opportunity 20:34:49 <andythenorth> wonder how much rivers should be immovables? 20:35:20 <andythenorth> having an AI build and 'own' rivers is out of the question? 20:35:25 <andythenorth> 'navigation authority' 20:35:35 <supermop> ok 20:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you have canals for that. 20:35:47 <supermop> here are my few cents 20:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but possibly have an option that non-canal-water generally is unremovable 20:36:23 <supermop> i think it would be great if it were impossible to prevent blocking of rivers 20:36:29 <supermop> but 20:36:35 <supermop> like 20:37:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that also means you cannot terraform (down) halftile-shores 20:38:06 <b_jonas> allowing to remove a tile of the river (and assuming it just flows in an underground canal there or something) is better than the alternative which is adding a way to destroy your opponent's tracks by flooding it with a river 20:38:11 <b_jonas> imo 20:38:22 <b_jonas> who cares if it's unrealistic? 20:38:42 <supermop> the path of the the flow must always be 1 tile wide 20:38:48 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:56 <b_jonas> why? 20:39:01 <supermop> that would be ideal, but probably not worth implementing 20:39:36 <supermop> i think having a river pathfinder should only be active during map generation 20:39:49 <b_jonas> right, that's what I'm saying too 20:40:25 <supermop> these are processes that take millions of years, so it's ok for a riverbed to be static even for a 1000 year game 20:40:33 <supermop> but 20:40:51 <supermop> if you are using a river as a route for your ships 20:41:14 <b_jonas> if there are lakes too, those can appear or disappear within 1000 years 20:41:21 <supermop> the ability to cut it off by buldozing is a serious grief opprotunity 20:41:45 <supermop> as start up cost for using a river are much lower than for a canal 20:41:54 <b_jonas> hmm... 20:42:20 <b_jonas> maybe if you can only bulldoze a river tile if it wasn't used by opponent's ships for a few years? 20:42:58 <supermop> yeah, but that requires every water tile to keep track of last time it was traverse 20:43:02 <supermop> d 20:43:26 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 20:43:28 <b_jonas> only an approximate time 20:43:42 <b_jonas> accurate to only a year, and the timeout is say four years 20:43:50 <b_jonas> so you need only three bits per player 20:43:53 <b_jonas> hmm, even that's too much 20:43:57 <b_jonas> I don't know then 20:44:57 <supermop> i think a persistent entity and pathfinder for each river is better than trying to store more data in each water tile 20:45:02 <supermop> anyway 20:45:19 <supermop> lets assume rivers stay griefable for now 20:45:52 <supermop> that they are created at map gen, then behave just like they do now thereafter 20:47:05 <supermop> here is my totally uninformed idea as to how to create them 20:47:06 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:47:07 <andythenorth> how rivers get on the map is decoupled from whether they are griefing opportunities at the moment 20:47:16 <b_jonas> also that map-time pathfinder isn't such an easy thing I guess 20:47:16 <supermop> : 20:47:20 <andythenorth> they are griefing opportunities as implemented 20:47:35 <Alberth> roads are too 20:47:40 <supermop> i will use a bitmap as an analogy 20:47:52 <andythenorth> Alberth: not to the same extent 20:48:00 <andythenorth> I can't raise one corner of a tile to destroy a road 20:48:03 <supermop> game starts with a medium grey square, 20:48:17 <andythenorth> I have to bulldoze a town road, only at a free end, not past junctions, and only if my rating is good 20:48:46 *** Tennel [~Tennel@dslb-094-223-179-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:03 <supermop> randomly add a few hills (areas of lighter color)according to settings 20:49:16 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:31 <b_jonas> andythenorth: then rebuild it one-way for fun 20:51:42 <supermop> then randomly add a number of seeds for river 20:51:50 <supermop> number determined by setting 20:52:45 <supermop> start tracing paths toward map edge avoiding hills 20:52:55 <supermop> anding some amount of noise 20:52:58 <supermop> then 20:53:18 <supermop> hmmm 20:53:45 <andythenorth> which map edge? :P 20:53:49 <supermop> apply a gradient along the path to lower terrain at some rate 20:53:50 <supermop> ok 20:53:55 <supermop> edge wise 20:54:09 <supermop> specify number of coast edges as now 20:54:18 <b_jonas> wouldn't it be better to generate a heightmap with high height resolution first, generating the rivers (according to flow of water and percipitation) on it, then quantizing the heights? 20:54:24 <supermop> after addition of hills 20:54:37 <b_jonas> on ttd maps you don't know where the river flows on a flat place 20:54:52 <supermop> run a sharp gradient to black on those edges 20:54:54 <b_jonas> in a high precision height map you do know because there are no equal heights 20:55:11 <supermop> but how do you get to that map first 20:55:24 <b_jonas> that's what you generate first 20:55:31 <supermop> how? 20:55:41 <supermop> currently maps are random 20:56:04 <supermop> i am thinking of approximating erosion by rivers to create the map 20:56:18 <supermop> so that valleys do not have dead ends 20:58:34 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: yexo * r21444 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: compute the type of elements in the argv string array on the fly and compare it with the type set by strgen 20:59:44 <supermop> anyway 20:59:54 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:04 <supermop> they idea would be to randomly place rivers 21:00:16 <supermop> then interate them several times 21:00:40 <supermop> so that they effect the whole landscape 21:00:51 <supermop> then load that bitmap into the game 21:02:03 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: yexo * r21445 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp strings.cpp): 21:02:03 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Fix: [NewGRF] fix gender choice lists in newgrf strings. 21:02:03 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: Change: strgen no longer writes the type of a string for a gender choice list 21:04:48 <planetmaker> good evening 21:05:15 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:29 <supermop> hello 21:07:23 <supermop> anyway 21:07:43 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:45 <PulseNeon> Hello :) 21:07:51 <supermop> i'd rather hane maps with valleys than rivers that flood etc 21:07:56 <supermop> have 21:08:28 <PulseNeon> I think naturally occuring rivers would be nice, a good use for ships inland as well 21:10:04 <b_jonas> what if instead the user is allowed to build some rivers for cheap? 21:10:28 <b_jonas> s/user/player/ 21:10:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you define "some"? 21:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> if the player really wanted that, he'd use the scenario editor 21:11:00 <Chrill> b_jonas: an artificially constructed river would be rather expensive 21:11:13 <Chrill> then again, just diggin a trench and let the water get there wouldn't.. 21:11:13 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: well, they have to look like rivers, like flowing down, and can't fork upwards, etc 21:11:16 <Chrill> not sure it'd hold a boat 21:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: that doesn't make any sense 21:11:40 <b_jonas> Eddi|zuHause: and maybe there'd be rules that they can't be too close to each other or somthing 21:11:56 <Chrill> b_jonas: but if you want to merge two rivers, then? 21:11:59 <b_jonas> or maybe he can only specify the starting point of the rivers 21:12:12 <b_jonas> Chrill: you can merge downwards, but not upwards 21:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you're talking silly stuff 21:13:47 <b_jonas> maybe 21:16:22 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.51.147.192] has joined #openttd 21:17:42 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@4chan.fm] has quit [autokilled: Do not spam - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2010-12-09 21:17:42)] 21:18:04 <realbigdreamer> Hey guys, I have a problem. We are playing Open TTD on multiplayer and all the income I'm supposed to get does not get paid into my bank account. Anyone know how to fix it? I tried deleting the config file, but no change... 21:18:23 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 21:18:24 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@4chan.fm] has quit [autokilled: Do not spam - Contact support@oftc.net for help. (2010-12-09 21:18:24)] 21:18:31 <realbigdreamer> Running version 1.0.5 BTW 21:18:32 <Yexo> most likely you're using transfer orders incorrectly 21:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> realbigdreamer: don't use "transfer" 21:18:48 *** retro [~retro@125.151.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 21:18:49 <b_jonas> realbigdreamer: it's game money 21:18:54 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 21:19:05 <realbigdreamer> Oh! Thanks let me change it!!! 21:19:05 <b_jonas> it won't ever go to your real bank accounts 21:19:23 <realbigdreamer> Lol, oh my bad b_jonas.... hahaha 21:19:35 <Yexo> see http://wiki.openttd.org/Orders#Transfer for an explenation of what transfer orders do 21:21:56 <realbigdreamer> Thank you guys so very much! Now I will actually have a chance in the game... yay 21:22:42 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:26:29 <realbigdreamer> I used to play TTD when I was little, man I really appreciate Open TTD. 21:28:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:30:04 <Belugas> mmh... you grew up fast :D 21:41:20 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.51.147.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:41:45 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: yexo * r21446 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Doc: doxygen comments for some functions in strings.cpp 21:44:13 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:44:53 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.51.147.192] has joined #openttd 21:45:22 <realbigdreamer> Haha, I've had 3 planes crash in the game I'm playing now... guess I'm doing something wrong. 21:45:59 <planetmaker> there are large and small planes. 21:46:10 <planetmaker> Large planes landing on a small airports have a high crash chance 21:46:25 <planetmaker> But even then. Plance can crash by default. Even if you do everything right 21:46:50 <planetmaker> otherwise they'd be your license to print money without any need of looking after it nor building infrastructure 21:47:05 <Belugas> gottogohome, enjoy the fish and thanks for the snow 21:47:08 <Belugas> hem... 21:47:11 <Belugas> whatever 21:47:13 <Belugas> BYE 21:47:22 <realbigdreamer> Oh, thanks. Yeah I have small airports and bigplanes... guess that explains it. :) 21:47:28 <planetmaker> bye, Belugas 21:47:36 <realbigdreamer> Bye 21:49:19 <realbigdreamer> I will play on a few of the online servers tomorrow, but I have a feeling I might do bad considering my knowledge of Open TTD... 21:49:36 <b_jonas> also it's not obvious what planes are small (propeller) and what are large (jet) from the name and graphics, so you may have to look it up 21:49:54 <b_jonas> (unless you just build large planes only) 21:50:51 <realbigdreamer> Okay thanks. I built something 500 planes in the current game 21:51:01 <realbigdreamer> Darwin 21:51:16 <supermop> 3/500 sounds not bad 21:51:29 <planetmaker> in one month? 21:53:30 <realbigdreamer> No, but I started with one and bought the other after about a month. The one crashed and I replaced it with money I borrowed. And the same thing happened again. Had a dept of about 200 pounds after that. 21:55:06 <realbigdreamer> I guess the helicopters are a good way of making money... The one I have now has a longer life than the planes I had. 21:56:27 <planetmaker> best way is running 747 across 1000 tiles between big towns when plane speed is at 1/1 21:56:38 <planetmaker> helicopters are too small ;-) 21:57:44 <realbigdreamer> I'll try that. Wow, I'm getting addicted to this game.... again! 21:58:53 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:59:09 <realbigdreamer> Quick question, can I host a server for about 4 players on my PC with a 3G connection? Dunno how intense the bandwidth usuage might be... 22:00:08 <supermop> I wouldn't, 22:03:13 <planetmaker> download + 2-3 kbyte/s and player 22:07:58 <realbigdreamer> okay thanks. 22:09:14 <realbigdreamer> We might as well play on the servers that are currently online... 22:09:55 *** SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:59 <planetmaker> good idea 22:13:01 <realbigdreamer> Well it's 12:10 here, think I'm gonna call it a night. Cheers guys and thanks for the help. You seem like a nice community. 22:15:18 <realbigdreamer> Bye 22:15:32 *** realbigdreamer [~realbigdr@41.51.147.192] has left #openttd [Bye] 22:16:35 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA527.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:29 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:17:50 <polymorphZ> hiiiiiiiiiiiii 22:25:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe232.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:16 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-173-122.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-172-73.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 22:30:00 <Terkhen> finally, icu 4.6 compiles in mingw 22:30:38 <Terkhen> if you want something done you have to do it yourself, I guess 22:32:02 <supermop> thats why I started making grfs despite not knowing how to code 22:32:20 <planetmaker> :-) 22:32:26 <supermop> had things i wanted to see in game... 22:32:35 <planetmaker> That's how it all started with me and OpenTTD-deving and newgrf-ing, too... 22:33:16 <Terkhen> same here :) 22:33:40 <supermop> thats part of why i went to architecture school 22:33:40 <planetmaker> I'd wonder whether there are many where it is actually different ;-) 22:33:59 <supermop> "be the change you want to see in the world" 22:34:49 <Terkhen> I wonder why I spend so much time fighting libicu 22:35:30 <Rubidium> because you like it? 22:35:31 <Terkhen> I guess because it's a fun puzzle 22:35:51 <Terkhen> :P 22:35:53 <Rubidium> Terkhen, next fun puzzle: cross compiling freetype/icu to DOS :) 22:36:22 <Terkhen> prerrequisite puzzle: managing to format my old 386 PC to be able to test DOS binaries there 22:36:37 <Terkhen> it ignores bootable diskettes for some reason 22:36:38 <planetmaker> he 22:36:47 <Terkhen> and the BIOS is too scary 22:37:44 <Terkhen> for now I'll finish this and I will upload my hacky queue to libicu's tracker :) 22:38:38 <Terkhen> hmm... is DOS even able to handle UTF stuff? 22:38:40 <Rubidium> you could use dosbox; that runs the DOS OpenTTD binary 22:39:18 <Rubidium> Terkhen: probably not, but the drawing of text if fully contained within OpenTTD, so that shouldn't be a problem 22:39:43 <Terkhen> ok :) 22:43:02 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:51:10 <fonsinchen> I 22:51:21 <fonsinchen> 'm failing to compile opengfx ... 22:52:17 <fonsinchen> In valid nfo, can there be lines like this: '# 1 "<stdin>"'? 22:53:55 <Rubidium> what version of grfcodec and opengfx? 22:53:57 <polymorphZ> can someone tell me how to give same orders to 200 aeroplanes? 22:54:09 <fonsinchen> newest, just downloaded from the website 22:55:05 <Yexo> polymorphZ: make sure they have shared orders, if you haven't done that yet you'll have to change that for all 200 planes manually 22:55:06 <Rubidium> polymorphZ: use shared orders; see the wiki for more information 22:55:22 <fonsinchen> I mean newest grfcodec. opengfx is a hg checkout. 22:55:35 <polymorphZ> thank you ^^ 22:55:48 <PulseNeon> What does hg stand for? 22:55:50 <fonsinchen> But now as I'm trying to check the grfcodec version I find that something went wrong with its installation ... 22:56:01 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: and with "newest" you meant 5.0.0? 22:56:11 <Yexo> PulseNeon: mercurial, a version control system 22:56:22 <PulseNeon> aaah 22:56:27 <fonsinchen> yes 22:56:38 <Rubidium> then your grfcodec isn't new enough 22:57:36 <fonsinchen> oh ... I see. 22:57:41 <Rubidium> you need r785 or higher of grfcodec to compile opengfx r551 or higher 22:57:54 <fonsinchen> thanks 23:00:27 <Rubidium> and for the next time "newest" is not a valid answer when someone asks for the version 23:01:28 <planetmaker> using 'newest' when referencing versions should be punishable 23:04:58 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 23:05:25 <supermop> hey guys i love the newest transport tycoon! 23:05:44 <fonsinchen> sorry, it seems I was typing faster than thinking ... time to go to sleep, I guess 23:05:51 <fonsinchen> good night 23:05:58 <Prof_Frink> I prefer the newester version. 23:06:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa296.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:16 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:22 <polymorphZ> add shared vehicles dont add vehicles with same orders :( 23:13:22 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:40 <Xaroth> click clone vehicle, then click vehicle to clone orders from 23:14:46 <Xaroth> hold ctrl to make them share the order-list 23:15:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AA93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:30 <Sacro> Right, why does "#define output(...) printf(__VA_ARGS__); printf("\n");" not work? 23:15:52 <Sacro> I guess because it needs __VA_ARGS__ quoting but I can't figure that bit out 23:16:36 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 23:16:58 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-61.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:16 <polymorphZ> 3~ah thankyou i see now :) 23:17:56 <polymorphZ> so i should share orders when creating vehicles 23:17:58 <__ln__> Sacro! long time no C. 23:19:09 <__ln__> what does it do instead of working? 23:19:25 <Rubidium> Sacro: #define output(args...) printf(## args); printf("\n"); ? 23:19:28 <Sacro> __ln__: I get loads of "foo" is indufined 23:19:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D962.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:20:00 <__ln__> indufined, that sounds serious 23:20:24 <Sacro> I'm trying to get it so it either returns an identifier or it prints it 23:20:33 <Sacro> lexical analysis ftw :( 23:22:07 <Sacro> so basically i have output(OR); 23:22:14 <Sacro> which will go to return OR; 23:22:16 *** JVassie_ [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:22:19 <Sacro> or printf("OR"); 23:22:30 <Sacro> depending on whether DEBUG is defined 23:22:38 <__ln__> should __VA_ARGS__ be given to something like vprintf()? dunno, never tried '...' with macros. 23:23:01 <Rubidium> that won't work that way :) 23:23:09 <Sacro> Rubidium: what I'm doing? 23:23:25 <Sacro> hmm, and return "OR" will be different to return OR; 23:23:46 <Rubidium> try #define output(var) printf("%s\n", #var); 23:24:33 <Sacro> nope 23:24:51 <Rubidium> then I've got too little context I fear 23:25:13 <Sacro> though that should work :\ 23:25:16 <Sacro> looking at documentation 23:25:17 <Rubidium> though that's basically the way OpenTTD converts variable names to strings 23:26:04 <Sacro> Yeah 23:26:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CF13.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:12 <Sacro> that's what I'm doing (i think) 23:26:41 <Sacro> http://freeside.co.uk/~ben/hg/08348/file/b351037e0af8/acw.lex is the file 23:28:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:28 <Yexo> why are you using __VA_ARGS__ ? You still do printf(__VA_ARGS__) and not printf(#__VA_ARGS__) 23:28:54 <Yexo> though I think the latter will also not work 23:29:11 <Sacro> that's not been updated 23:29:19 <Sacro> i'm not going to commit until it works :p 23:29:22 <Yexo> in that case it's useless information 23:29:27 <Rubidium> you haven't declared those tokens, have you? 23:29:36 <Sacro> latex does that 23:30:03 <Rubidium> I doubt latex does that 23:30:53 <Sacro> hmm 23:30:58 <Rubidium> #__VA_ARGS__ works fine, if compiled with -DDEBUG 23:31:24 <Sacro> does it? 23:31:55 <Rubidium> well, it doesn't give any complaints about AND and friends 23:32:04 <planetmaker> good night 23:32:08 <Rubidium> it fails to compile though, but that's probably because I'm missing a lot of stuff 23:32:11 <Rubidium> night planetmaker 23:32:42 <Sacro> how are you compiling it :\ 23:33:09 <Rubidium> lex awl.lex; gcc -DDEBUG lex.yy.c 23:34:13 <Sacro> right, what what's the full #define line that works? 23:35:01 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 23:35:06 <Rubidium> works means: doesn't cause a compiler warning/error besides a load of somewhat unrelated stuff 23:35:10 <Rubidium> #define output(...) printf(#__VA_ARGS__) ; printf("\n"); 23:35:48 <Terkhen> good night 23:36:24 <Sacro> Ah ha :D 23:36:26 <Sacro> yay! 23:44:06 <Sacro> Rubidium: sorted 23:45:20 <Sacro> http://freeside.co.uk/~ben/hg/08348/rev/5a6031594465 23:49:56 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 23:53:21 *** enr1x [~kiike@162.227.21.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [] 23:58:34 *** asnoehu is now known as tycoondemon 23:59:05 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]