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00:00:05 <__ln__> feliz ano novo! 00:02:00 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-31-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:53 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:08:05 <Mazur> Happy new yar, GMTers. 00:09:42 *** ABCRic_ [~ABCRic@122.179.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 00:09:46 *** ABCRic is now known as Guest2809 00:09:46 *** ABCRic_ is now known as ABCRic 00:09:57 <ABCRic> Happy new year! 00:10:17 <ABCRic> the year just started and my internet already crashed :D 00:10:48 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-31-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:10:51 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 00:11:04 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:11:36 <kamnet> Hey hey! Happy new year to all! Does anybody know what the state of Oz's graphics are? 00:12:06 *** fanioz_ is now known as fanioz 00:15:58 *** Guest2809 [~ABCRic@96.158.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:28 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:31:35 <Wolf01> 'night 00:31:43 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:32:59 *** fanioz_ [~fanioz@222.124.156.228] has joined #openttd 00:34:29 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 00:39:46 *** fanioz [~fanioz@222.124.156.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:12 *** kamnet [4cb171cd@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:48:52 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:37 <ABCRic> good night everyone 00:54:43 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@122.179.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has left #openttd [] 00:56:56 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA5FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 01:06:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B61D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:15 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 01:18:56 <Terkhen> happy new year to everybody :) 01:19:18 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC4181.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:22:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:23:18 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 01:39:43 <Terkhen> and good night ;) 01:41:59 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.107.57] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:48:49 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 02:01:46 <reldred> Rubidium: Will do, I'm the artist formerly known as 'Aegir' btw, I lost my nick on the move to OFTC back in the day. 02:02:25 <reldred> Rubidium: I'll shoot you a list, if I could just have them put under my accounts control I can clean them up and whatnot. 02:37:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:58:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73DC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:10 *** Xed_ [~Xed@host88-243-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 03:03:18 *** fanioz_ [~fanioz@222.124.156.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73FE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:23:43 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:24:01 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:29:24 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AFA5FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:50:33 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:26:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:6526:36d:c6d9:ec05] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:59:19 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 05:00:31 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:21:13 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@AB331337.catv.pool.z-labor.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:24 *** Guest2832 [~matrix@AB331337.catv.pool.z-labor.com] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73FE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7458B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:08:06 *** Guest2832 [~matrix@AB331337.catv.pool.z-labor.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:09:53 *** z-MaTRiX_ [~matrix@AB331337.catv.pool.z-labor.com] has joined #openttd 06:33:37 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:09:40 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:11:23 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 07:14:47 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:14:47 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:24 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:24:45 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:27:45 <andythenorth> mornings 07:33:23 *** Markavian [~Markavian@37.64-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:41:11 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:14:51 <planetmaker> good morning 08:16:46 <Rubidium> oh, it's morning already... 08:17:01 <Rubidium> then I slept through most of the fireworks :) 08:17:20 <planetmaker> :-) 08:18:05 <planetmaker> interestingly... gcc 4.2 here compiles by default an x64 binary while gcc 4.0 compiles an i386 one... 08:18:46 <Rubidium> universal building? 08:18:49 <planetmaker> no 08:20:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 08:21:47 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@user-12lcboo.cable.mindspring.com] has left #openttd [Leaving.] 08:24:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r21684 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (cocoa_v.mm wnd_quartz.mm): -Fix [FS#4360] (r21573): Silence some compile warnings 08:31:02 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:32 <LordAro> hello, from 2011! :) 08:31:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r21685 /trunk/ (55 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: prevent bug tracker entries like FS#2487 and FS#1613 for this year 08:34:07 <Rubidium> tss... daring to say that when not even the whole French Republic in in 2011 ;) 08:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> who cares about the french :p 08:34:29 <Rubidium> that still takes 3333 seconds ;) 08:34:50 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the French? 08:43:24 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:30 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 08:53:26 <Terkhen> good morning 08:53:49 <planetmaker> good morning & happy 2011 Terkhen :-) 08:54:01 <Terkhen> happy new year :) 08:54:20 <andythenorth> hola 08:54:31 <Terkhen> hola andythenorth 08:54:32 <planetmaker> hola andythenorth :-) 08:55:01 <KouDy> happy new year to all 08:55:11 <planetmaker> hm... valgrind tells me that i386 code can't run on this machine. It clearly can ;-) 08:55:11 <andythenorth> como se dice en espanol 'happy new year'? 08:55:23 <LordAro> morning andythenorth, Terkhen and planetmaker 08:55:29 <LordAro> and KouDy 08:55:33 <LordAro> :) 08:55:36 <planetmaker> moin LordAro 08:55:46 <planetmaker> nice... valgrind internal error :S 08:56:27 * andythenorth guesses freudig neue jahre isn't quite right :P 08:56:36 <andythenorth> for spanish or german 08:56:48 <planetmaker> it's strange but not wrong 08:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> not quite :p 08:57:20 <planetmaker> sounds like from a fairy tale ;-) 08:57:32 <planetmaker> "and they happily lived ever after" - like 08:57:52 <Terkhen> :D 08:57:53 <KouDy> morning 08:58:01 <andythenorth> jouyeux annee? 08:58:08 <Terkhen> feliz año nuevo 08:58:34 <planetmaker> Frohes neues Jahr, andythenorth :-) 08:58:42 <andythenorth> nav varsh ki subhkamna 08:59:07 <andythenorth> and so to the code? 08:59:15 * Terkhen wishes planetmaker a new year free from valgrind internal errors 08:59:49 <KouDy> so how is first day of the new year for you guys (wherever you are located)? 08:59:51 <planetmaker> I'd rather have OpenTTD free of errors which let me play with valgrind in the first place :-P 09:00:53 <KouDy> it's raining here... but forenoon was sunny 09:02:11 <LordAro> too late ;) 09:02:16 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/24/ <-- is the initial output somewhat useful or are those 'jumps potentially depending upon uninitialized value' messages normal? 09:02:24 <Terkhen> we have thick fog here... not very fun when you have to travel 60 km to come back to home at 1:00 AM 09:02:36 <planetmaker> rainy here... 09:03:59 <KouDy> ahhh okaaaay 09:04:16 <KouDy> i think i have never seen fog around here... and if, only very light one 09:06:06 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yeah, I think strlen can cause those warnings because of an optimisation where it reads 4 bytes at a time (or so) 09:06:26 <planetmaker> compile with --enable-debug=3? 09:07:34 <Rubidium> won't help for the strlen optimisations 09:08:07 <planetmaker> what would help? 09:08:28 <Rubidium> though those are usually ignored by valgrind, but that needs a particular pattern it seems as after an early libc update valgrind whined a lot till it got an update 09:11:31 <Rubidium> but I've got no idea how to add ignores manually 09:12:03 * LordAro is using this version of xkcd from now on: http://uni.xkcd.com/ :D 09:14:23 <planetmaker> hm, ok. Thanks anyay 09:14:25 <planetmaker> +w 09:18:39 * andythenorth adventures in rail and road code 09:19:27 <andythenorth> hmm 09:19:52 <andythenorth> I assume RoadTypes in current code aren't RoadTypes ? 09:21:46 <planetmaker> not as in NewGRF-able 09:21:52 <planetmaker> they are the two current road types 09:24:23 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:24:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:26:43 <andythenorth> road has way fewer bits free than rail :o 09:27:15 <Rubidium> but it has enough bits for 16 road types 09:28:31 <andythenorth> m7 bits 7 and 6? 09:29:31 <andythenorth> or the clear m4 bits? 09:29:42 <Rubidium> the m4 bits 09:29:43 * andythenorth learns stuff 09:30:25 * andythenorth puzzles head 09:30:28 <Rubidium> there you'd set the first and second road type of a tile, which are available based on bits 6 and 7 09:31:07 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:31:18 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:31:30 <Rubidium> unless we'd go for 15 road types, then we could use a sentinel value in m4 to mark "no road present" 09:31:43 * LordAro hates his internet connection... 09:32:02 <Rubidium> that would make stuff significantly easier I think (or maybe not) 09:32:12 <andythenorth> I'll make a list of sane road types 09:32:15 <andythenorth> see how many it is 09:32:28 <andythenorth> in gameplay, 15 or 16 is irrelevant, they're both too many :P 09:38:20 <planetmaker> andythenorth: only the amount of concurrent road types is relevant for this number 09:38:29 <Rubidium> that's 2 09:38:30 <planetmaker> Not the amount of road types ever conceived by people ;-) 09:38:43 <Rubidium> (two on one tile that is) 09:39:01 <planetmaker> I mean in the overall game 09:39:16 <planetmaker> on a single tile more than two is... not worth it 09:46:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D1CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:53:53 <Yexo> good morning and a happy newyear 09:54:03 <planetmaker> same to you! 09:54:05 <Terkhen> happy new year Yexo :) 09:54:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:59:29 <roboboy> In 3 Hours it will be the second day of 2011 for me 10:00:22 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@37.64-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:06:48 *** mkv` [~Markavian@37.64-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:07:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-13-156.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:07:41 *** Markavian [~Markavian@37.64-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:12:17 <andythenorth> based on RL, I've counted 4 attributes of a road tile 10:12:26 <andythenorth> street level tracks 10:13:17 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-31-211.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:23 <andythenorth> surfaced road for rubber tyred vehicles (and carts etc) 10:13:32 <andythenorth> elevated tracks (metro, monorail etc) 10:13:40 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@37.64-67-202.dynamic.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:44 <andythenorth> catenary (trolley bus, tram) 10:13:49 <andythenorth> hmm 10:14:22 <andythenorth> elevated roads are not something to explore? 10:14:31 <andythenorth> complicated :P 10:14:42 <planetmaker> you'll find high-ways, national roads, country roads, dirt roads... 10:15:06 <planetmaker> so a speed limit definitely, too ;-) 10:15:09 <andythenorth> that's a combination of 'surfaced road' and 'restrictions' 10:15:21 <andythenorth> restrictions could be min / max weight, min / max speed 10:15:31 <andythenorth> or arbitrary flags ('no freight vehicles) 10:15:39 <Terkhen> max height for tunnels :P 10:15:49 <andythenorth> there's also the question of power type for elevated systems 10:15:52 <andythenorth> hmm 10:16:15 <planetmaker> that's catenary. That's all. 10:16:30 <planetmaker> like railtypes. Just restrict vehicles to a road type and compatible ones 10:16:51 <planetmaker> and then the hanging monorail is compatible to no other. Done 10:17:20 <planetmaker> an important property is "towns can grow along road" 10:17:21 <andythenorth> there could only sanely be one elevated type on a tile? 10:17:36 <Terkhen> IMO yes 10:17:39 <andythenorth> or could we be stacking up multiple levels of different transport type? 10:18:09 <planetmaker> I'd generally allow two and leave that to the player... 10:18:12 <Terkhen> how would this handle the type of road built by towns? 10:18:34 <Alberth> andythenorth: yes, so we can have underground metro systems! 10:18:43 <andythenorth> fricking underground :P 10:18:55 <andythenorth> impose elevated and tell them it's the same thing, just multiplied by -1 10:19:08 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:19:16 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:19:26 <andythenorth> actually seriously 10:19:45 <andythenorth> apart from it's RVs not trains, how does elevated metro differ from underground metro? 10:19:47 <andythenorth> in gameplay? 10:19:59 <andythenorth> screw those who want to model london underground accurately 10:20:08 <planetmaker> seriously I consider it a different thing. You cannot see and thus not click the vehicles etc pp 10:20:13 <Alberth> except for crossings, I would have one type of transport at a tile 10:20:20 <Yexo> underground can go under houses/industries, eleveated can not 10:20:24 <andythenorth> underground is dumb. players who want that can go buy a lot of Lego and lift the floorboards in their house 10:20:24 <planetmaker> Alberth: tram + road? 10:20:41 <Alberth> tram == road, isn't it? 10:20:48 <planetmaker> it's two different road types 10:20:56 <planetmaker> two different transport modes 10:20:59 <Yexo> planetmaker: types as in "road", "rail", "water", "air" 10:21:05 <planetmaker> ah, yes 10:21:14 <planetmaker> there, of course only one except crossings 10:21:38 <planetmaker> I actually wonder whether road and rail types cannot be unified ;-) 10:21:54 <Alberth> probably it can 10:21:57 <Yexo> what good would it do? 10:22:06 <planetmaker> save code duplication 10:22:17 <Alberth> diagonal roads are difficult 10:22:20 <Yexo> the pathfinder (yapf) already unified a lot of code for them 10:22:29 <Terkhen> IMO they are too different to be worth the effort, although they might be able to share small bits of code 10:22:35 <andythenorth> tram == road tile with street level track 10:22:52 * andythenorth wonders how many types of track could be on a tile 10:23:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: three: one rail + two road 10:23:30 <andythenorth> so I don't really understand yet... 10:23:40 <planetmaker> (plus one bridge + 15(?) tunnels below 10:23:49 <andythenorth> would RoadTypes be completely open to newgrf authors whims, or would there be some fixed attributes 10:24:01 <planetmaker> like railtypes 10:24:02 <andythenorth> e.g. w.r.t to tram track, catenary, etc 10:24:47 <Alberth> it would be good to have some guide lines for authors imho, but that is probably mostly by convention, not in the code 10:24:59 <andythenorth> rail types have 'compatible types' and 'powered type'? 10:25:10 <planetmaker> yes 10:25:35 <planetmaker> an e-rail engine can travel unpowered on a steam track 10:25:56 <planetmaker> so rails are compatible 10:26:02 <planetmaker> but power only on e-rails 10:26:44 * Alberth ponders whether an electric engine downhill would travel non-electric tracks 10:27:53 <Alberth> probably better if not :) 10:29:25 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/25/ <-- andythenorth 10:33:25 <Yexo> planetmaker: powered is not really useful for road vehicles 10:33:40 <Yexo> as a road vehicle that is not powered is not able to run at all 10:33:49 <planetmaker> true 10:33:58 <Yexo> as opposed to rail vehicles, where one engine may not have power but it can run because another engine still has power 10:34:06 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has joined #openttd 10:35:02 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:35:06 <Alberth> just preparing for rv-wagons :p 10:35:11 <ZirconiumX> hello 10:35:16 <Alberth> hai ZirconiumX 10:35:18 <planetmaker> moin ZirconiumX 10:35:26 <ZirconiumX> hello, y'all 10:35:48 <ZirconiumX> happy new year to all of you 10:35:59 <ZirconiumX> (those that are in the new year) 10:36:16 <LordAro> moin ZirconiumX 10:36:27 <ZirconiumX> hello, the good Lord! 10:36:32 <LordAro> lol... 10:36:53 <ZirconiumX> (that's my nickname for you) 10:37:43 <Terkhen> happy new year ZirconiumX 10:37:51 <ZirconiumX> and you 10:38:05 *** perk111 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has joined #openttd 10:38:25 * Rubidium wonders what ZirconiumX's X stands for; the 10 ppb in blood maybe? 10:38:47 <ZirconiumX> The element, and X 10:38:51 <ZirconiumX> element X 10:39:27 <ZirconiumX> or the strike which has been issued to me, I've already been kicked once, haven't I PM 10:39:28 <SmatZ> like, RubidiumX 10:39:41 <ZirconiumX> or SmatX 10:39:45 <SmatZ> :P 10:40:06 <ZirconiumX> Smat's two letters better than me :( 10:40:27 <Rubidium> my memory may be bad, but I don't remember an element X; The only element with an X I can think of is xeon but that is Xe 10:40:52 <ZirconiumX> I know an element X 10:41:00 <ZirconiumX> (AdventureQuest) 10:41:07 <LordAro> oh dear... 10:41:26 <ZirconiumX> I'm a guardian there, don't play much though 10:41:27 <Rubidium> ... mommy? 10:41:57 <LordAro> Rubidium: ? 10:42:22 <Rubidium> LordAro: ! 10:42:47 <LordAro> happy new year to you too :p 10:43:02 * ZirconiumX sighs 10:43:19 * ZirconiumX ^^ then slaps Rubidium fround the face 10:44:01 <LordAro> and then suddenly ZirconiumX 'leaves' unexplainedly 10:44:05 <LordAro> :) 10:44:21 * ZirconiumX does that ^^ 10:45:00 <Rubidium> fround? 10:45:07 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:45:14 <planetmaker> Rubidium: in astrophysics / cosmology X synonymous sometimes for H 10:45:18 <ZirconiumX> round 10:45:18 <Rubidium> my memory must really be getting worse this year 10:45:38 <LordAro> ha! it's still 2010 in some..er...remote islands in the pacific... :) 10:45:45 <Rubidium> duh... 10:45:49 <planetmaker> (they only know three elements: X, Y and Z, where X=H, Y=He, Z=all the tiny rest) 10:46:09 <ZirconiumX> hmmm 10:46:17 <Rubidium> yay for LINT and SST 10:46:18 <ZirconiumX> I'll be back in a bit 10:46:24 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 10:46:30 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:46:30 <planetmaker> where Z is then referred to as metal, whatever it is, even if most of the 'metal' is sand actually... 10:46:37 <ZirconiumX> Lol 10:46:46 <ZirconiumX> damn it didn't work 10:47:01 <ZirconiumX> I tried to change my nick to ZirconiumH 10:47:30 <LordAro> try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands 10:47:53 <Rubidium> it'd be ZirconiumH2 to be somewhat correct though 10:48:09 <Rubidium> (Zirconiumhydride) 10:48:18 <ZirconiumX> ZrH2 10:48:47 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/26/ update, andythenorth 10:48:59 <Rubidium> then you'd be used for pyrotechnics ;) 10:49:25 <andythenorth> why isn't powered useful for road vehicles? 10:49:31 * andythenorth disagrees :P 10:49:32 <planetmaker> ZirconiumX: /nick newnick 10:49:33 <Rubidium> planetmaker: 4 depot sprites? Not 6? Those pesky wall stubs 10:49:45 <planetmaker> hm? 10:50:29 <andythenorth> only one track type per tile? 10:50:34 <planetmaker> what wall stubs? 10:50:39 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd say yes 10:50:40 <andythenorth> is an elevated track a track? 10:50:53 * LordAro likes the /die command 10:50:55 <planetmaker> track is track 10:51:05 <andythenorth> elevated track is different 10:51:20 *** ZirconiumX is now known as ZrH2 10:51:23 *** perk111 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:51:24 <ZrH2> heh 10:51:45 <andythenorth> unless there's a map limitation, at least two track types per tile are needed 10:52:00 <andythenorth> or better, distinguish surface / non-surface types 10:52:04 <ZrH2> you now have to call me Zirconium Hydride 10:52:15 *** ZrH2 is now known as ZirconiumX 10:52:36 <andythenorth> otherwise e.g. monorail could never cross tram tracks 10:53:03 <Rubidium> planetmaker: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=1145:1150 10:53:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yeah, you'd have to bridge it 10:53:42 <planetmaker> which you'd have to do anyway 10:53:54 <Rubidium> planetmaker: although, http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=1408:1413 is "better" 10:53:54 <andythenorth> not very effective in game 10:54:23 <planetmaker> ah, those pesky walls :-) yes, of course, Rubidium 10:54:50 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 10:54:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's not about making everything possible. And having two tracks cross is also not possible with rail types. I maintain 'no crossing of tracks' 10:55:03 <planetmaker> nor of catenaries 10:55:08 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:55:20 <LordAro> Rubidium: how come the second link has 32bit graphics shown? 10:55:35 <Rubidium> idunno 10:55:41 <Rubidium> (new from Steve) 10:55:42 <planetmaker> you'd get glitches to no end, andythenorth 10:55:52 <andythenorth> how / why? 10:56:00 <LordAro> Steve? 10:56:08 <Rubidium> hmm, although I should've properly capitalised it as iDunno then 10:56:19 <planetmaker> broken tracks when drawn on top of eachother. Different catenaries short-circuiting eachother... 10:56:33 <planetmaker> I'm quite against two such things on one tile :-) 10:56:41 <ZirconiumX> Rubidium: The new Apple iDunno 10:56:43 <planetmaker> same as you cannot have two road surfaces 10:56:57 <ZirconiumX> :P 10:58:11 <Terkhen> :D 10:58:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: so I prefer to distinguish street-level / elevated types rather than two 'track' types 10:58:54 <andythenorth> as the vehicles would be completely incompatible wrt each other 10:59:04 <Rubidium> how does tram fit in? 10:59:06 <andythenorth> I guess the elevated sets use some monster offsets 10:59:12 <andythenorth> tram is a track type 10:59:32 <Rubidium> it's a road type 10:59:48 <Rubidium> or rather road surface so to speak 10:59:58 <Rubidium> but it can be combined with tarmac 11:00:19 <andythenorth> I'l make a list... 11:00:34 <andythenorth> I have to throw a ball to the baby every 5 seconds, so it may be a while... 11:04:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC468E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:04:47 <andythenorth> hmm 11:04:56 <andythenorth> is a guided busway track or road? 11:05:10 <andythenorth> and is the distinction between 'track' and 'road' misleading? 11:05:32 <andythenorth> either there's a compatible type on the tile, or there's not? 11:05:49 <planetmaker> andythenorth: probably three things which each tile can only have once: tarmac, tracks, catenaray 11:06:08 <andythenorth> are they quite different problems - vehicle routing and drawing the tile? w.r.t to allowed types 11:06:13 <andythenorth> ? 11:06:14 <planetmaker> you cannot build a road type over another, if it defines one thing already present 11:07:18 <planetmaker> one might think of a 'conditionally draw tarmac / track / catenary' - i.e. only add, if not already present, otherwise don't care about our own. 11:07:33 <planetmaker> but that might get more messy than it's worth 11:12:16 <roboboy> So Say I have Tram and Tarmac on a tile and want to add trolley bus could that happen if they had a compatable catenary system? 11:12:55 <andythenorth> powered 11:12:59 <planetmaker> if you define them compatible... 11:13:32 <peter1138> heh 11:13:37 <peter1138> anyone want my road type code? 11:13:42 <peter1138> (it doesn't work) 11:16:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: wants it ;-) 11:16:32 <andythenorth> I'll buy that for a dollar 11:19:10 * Alberth offers some non-working group code for sale 11:19:21 <andythenorth> I have an improved tropic map generator 11:19:25 <andythenorth> for 0.02 11:19:47 <andythenorth> so we need to distinguish track / tarmac because they have to be drawn? 11:20:07 <andythenorth> but vehicle routing can be considered separately? 11:20:10 <Terkhen> selling non-working code is a great idea :P 11:20:22 <andythenorth> we give the working code away for free 11:20:26 <planetmaker> hm, I have a few non-working pieces of gui code. Anyone? 11:20:29 <andythenorth> there's got to be revenue somewhere :P 11:24:19 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:24:50 <andythenorth> what if I invented a maglev people-mover road type that (1) runs at street level (2) uses a rail which can be placed down the centre of tram tracks 11:24:51 <andythenorth> ? 11:25:11 <andythenorth> that's a valid case for drawing multiple sprites 11:26:58 <planetmaker> jack-of-all-trades-newgrf-support? 11:27:42 <planetmaker> restrictions are what make the game challanging ;-) 11:27:57 <ZirconiumX> Planetmaker 11:28:01 <planetmaker> and the possible conflicts don't make this worthwhile IMHO 11:28:08 <ZirconiumX> .joatgrf 11:28:15 <ZirconiumX> jrf 11:29:28 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it was more a test case to see if tracks are really different to road 11:29:37 <andythenorth> and I guess they are because they need to be drawn 11:30:01 <planetmaker> I'd distinguish tarmac and tracks and catenary. They're independent and often found concurrently 11:30:11 <planetmaker> but not two of either type on a single place 11:30:30 <andythenorth> I'd really strongly make a case for something like 'elevated route' as well 11:30:42 <planetmaker> nah. Use tracks for that 11:31:04 <planetmaker> what's the use case of "elevated"? 11:31:37 <dihedral> Rubidium, did you actually try what i posted to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4169 11:31:45 <dihedral> hello by the way 11:32:05 <planetmaker> happy new year, dihedral 11:32:21 <dihedral> happy new year to you too planetmaker 11:32:41 <ZirconiumX> happy new year dihedral! 11:33:32 <andythenorth> elevated is primarily eye candy / interesting 11:33:32 <andythenorth> to prevent an elevated metro / monorail crossing a tram line would be very annoying 11:34:12 <andythenorth> it's currently the thing that makes me thing RoadTypes is worth trying 11:34:23 <andythenorth> otherwise I think there is limited benefit 11:35:25 <andythenorth> it seems many of us like the idea of trails, highways, etc. but in game, we'd probably end up just building everywhere '120km/h tarmac road no restrictions' 11:35:43 <andythenorth> hmm 11:36:05 <planetmaker> so they end up building tarmac and both normal, elevated and trams everywhere? 11:36:35 <andythenorth> yes :D 11:36:37 <andythenorth> why not 11:36:40 <andythenorth> I'm not sure 11:36:44 <andythenorth> that's why we discuss it :) 11:37:38 <andythenorth> I guess forcing 'choose trams *or* elevated' just seems too arbitrary a restriction 11:38:20 <planetmaker> add maybe a flag like "allow crossing other road tracks" 11:38:47 <andythenorth> cross orthogonal, but don't run parallel? 11:38:54 <andythenorth> that's actually an *interesting* restriction 11:39:17 <andythenorth> similar to trams can't reverse on slopes 11:39:28 <andythenorth> annoying, but there have be limitations 11:39:51 <andythenorth> parallel is the wrong word here :P 11:40:51 <Alberth> dihedral: may be a (long) while before RB answers 11:41:35 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:51:45 <Alberth> Now I understand why we got a feature request for a night mode: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=61528 :D 11:51:49 <Alberth> looking very good! 11:52:39 <planetmaker> it does indeed 11:57:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:01:09 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I don't claim this makes 100% sense yet 12:01:19 <andythenorth> but something has to be written...Basic types 12:01:19 <andythenorth> *There is an elevated route on this tile* 12:01:20 <andythenorth> overhead metro (conventional track) 12:01:20 <andythenorth> overhead monorail 12:01:20 <andythenorth> overhead suspended monorail 12:01:21 <andythenorth> (power type - electrified, rope hauled, unpowered, air tube, etc) 12:01:21 <andythenorth> (+ more types invented by players, travel tubes, people movers, etc). 12:01:22 <andythenorth> All elevated things would need crazy sprite offsets for the vehicles. There would be absolutely *no* way for a vehicle to move between street level and elevated routes. 12:01:22 <andythenorth> *There is a street level track of some kind on this tile* 12:01:24 <andythenorth> conventional trams 12:01:24 <andythenorth> guideways for buses etc 12:01:26 <andythenorth> crazy stuff that gets invented 12:01:26 <andythenorth> (power type - electrified, rope hauled, unpowered, air tube, etc) 12:01:28 <andythenorth> *There is a surfaced street of some kind on this tile* 12:01:28 <andythenorth> dirt / tarmac types etc etc 12:01:30 <andythenorth> *Other features* 12:01:30 <andythenorth> There is street level catenary on this tile (what about elevated?). 12:01:32 <andythenorth> There are restrictions on this tile (max / min weight, speed etc). 12:01:32 <andythenorth> oops 12:01:34 <andythenorth> sorry 12:01:34 * andythenorth runs before kban 12:01:36 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 12:01:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:02:02 <andythenorth> stupid mac clipboard - doesn't always copy urls in Safari 12:02:26 * andythenorth tries again 12:02:27 <andythenorth> http://pastebin.com/xfgNTTJr 12:03:44 * andythenorth wonders how would elevated tracks work with level crossings? 12:04:06 <planetmaker> I think you mix somewhat the feature 'road types' with actually defining the types themselves 12:04:40 <andythenorth> I know 12:04:43 <planetmaker> or is each bullet point just examples of a feature only found once per tile? 12:05:07 <planetmaker> yeah, but mixing that will lead to ugly hacks and a non-clean implementation. That has first to be abstracted nicely away. 12:05:07 <andythenorth> thinking of implementing types will help me understand how the actual feature should work 12:05:10 <planetmaker> Details are for newgrfs 12:05:27 <andythenorth> it helps me find edge cases... 12:06:52 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.107.57] has joined #openttd 12:06:56 <andythenorth> zephyris's suspended monorail uses level crossing 12:07:01 <andythenorth> which looks odd :) 12:07:36 <andythenorth> so is supporting elevated stuff nicely desirable at all? 12:08:23 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes...the starred items are 'one per tile' 12:08:35 <andythenorth> more or less, once I get my thinking clear 12:09:44 <dihedral> <Alberth> dihedral: may be a (long) while before RB answers <- but he'll answer :-) 12:12:29 <andythenorth> is there much use of multiple rail-type newgrfs? 12:20:38 <planetmaker> people use it for they enjoyment, yes 12:22:42 *** LordAro [56a754a1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:24:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 12:31:51 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 12:32:32 <andythenorth> ok...so elevated routes will cause problems with level crossings, and bridges 12:32:59 <andythenorth> so I'd say tmwftlb, but then again, if RoadTypes was available, there would probably be some newgrfs to add elevated routes... 12:33:17 <andythenorth> like urban monorail grf 12:37:50 <planetmaker> why do they cause problems with level crossings and bridges? 12:37:50 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:38:00 <planetmaker> disallow level crossings for them 12:38:45 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:39:02 <planetmaker> (dis)allowing crossings is not task of openttd to decide but of the newgrf author to choose via a flag 12:39:25 <planetmaker> like railtypes already do 12:43:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ok the problems are probably ones for newgrf authors... 12:43:30 <andythenorth> have you tried Zephyris' urban monorail? 12:43:37 <andythenorth> with (e.g.) tubular bridge? 12:48:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:48:39 <planetmaker> not in a very long time. Why? 12:50:36 <andythenorth> any elevated route is going to run into multiple graphical problems with, e.g. tubular bridge, tram catenary, train catenary 12:50:47 <andythenorth> maybe other things I didn't think of yet 12:51:06 <andythenorth> hmm 12:51:19 * andythenorth tries building a rail bridge over elevated monorail - results are....interesting 12:53:18 <andythenorth> I think providing proper support for elevated routes is not feasible 12:53:19 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/misc/elevated_routes.png 12:53:35 <andythenorth> it's a clever hack by Zephyris, but too many issues 12:54:32 <andythenorth> also, the elevated track is provided as catenary, which handles the sprite sorting for front / rear supports 12:55:17 <andythenorth> but that's not ideal, which means a station-style sprite layer system would be needed for elevated routes 12:55:21 <andythenorth> all in all, full of problems 12:55:34 <planetmaker> what I'm saying ;-) 12:56:05 <andythenorth> so back to your spec... 12:56:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you recall also this one? http://wiki.openttd.org/Peter1138/Roadtypes 12:56:29 <planetmaker> I do, yes 12:56:43 <planetmaker> I read it before I started typing ;-) 12:56:50 <andythenorth> lovely 13:02:20 *** zodttd2 [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: zodttd2] 13:05:48 <Alberth> andythenorth: that .png looks like a rollercoaster track :D 13:07:35 <avdg> reminds my to the failing vertigo in walibi waver (an attraction) 13:08:31 <avdg> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertigo_(achtbaan) 13:08:41 <avdg> srr dutch link :) 13:08:54 <avdg> but there isn't an english one 13:09:52 <Alberth> I can read that :) 13:10:31 <Alberth> I have build such coasters in RCT1, but I didn't know that they actually exist :) 13:12:02 <avdg> that thing did work, only, at the time I was there, there was a failure around every 5 minutes 13:12:19 <avdg> causing these cars stoping on the tracks 13:12:53 <Alberth> so a ride took a long time :) 13:13:26 <avdg> yes, and somehow, they managed to get them moving again afterwards :p 13:13:59 <Alberth> hmm, it didn't run on gravity thus 13:14:05 <avdg> I still didn't found out how they did it (maybe there was an electric engine or something) 13:14:18 <avdg> it does, but it gets stuck sometimes 13:14:42 <avdg> elevator and drop (like almost all other attractions) 13:14:43 <roboboy> so its a JamCoaster :P 13:14:53 <avdg> but that lift was amazing to see 13:14:57 <avdg> not a normal one 13:15:18 <Alberth> and RCT1 did a good simulation, I also had cars stopping halfway :p 13:15:30 <avdg> it had 2 arms, so it could put 1 car up, while the other arm goes down 13:16:27 <avdg> you can check it on youtube 13:16:40 <avdg> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bKnRzwSjWU for example 13:19:04 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-143-164.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:20:14 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkirk_Wheel <-- the same idea, but with boats and water :) 13:22:29 <avdg> hmm yeah, thats a special lift 13:22:57 <avdg> and indeed the same idea 13:24:02 <Alberth> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n61KUGDWz2A 13:24:38 <avdg> hmm, does it completely run on water "power"? 13:27:18 <Alberth> apparently not, "...An electric motor drives a hydraulic pump..." 13:27:49 <roboboy> I want it as a replacement for OpenTTD's locks :P 13:28:36 <avdg> well, lets assume that these boats have wheels to climb up :) 13:29:59 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_lift_lock <-- this one does 13:30:27 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:30:57 <avdg> Belgium docks are also great 13:31:11 <avdg> uh locks 13:31:16 <Alberth> and this is really amazing imho "... opened to the public to a crowd of thousands on 9 July 1904, and remains in full use today." 13:31:33 <avdg> :p 13:31:39 <__ln__> the crowd must be pretty old by now 13:32:34 <avdg> locks on wheels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronqui%C3%A8res_inclined_plane 13:32:52 <avdg> great useless money spender 13:33:09 <avdg> from the 50/50 period in Belgium 13:33:32 <Alberth> it does look nice :) 13:34:22 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:34:30 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 13:36:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host15-238-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:36:41 <Wolf01> hello, happy new year! 13:37:26 <SmatZ> happy new year, Wolf01 13:37:39 <avdg> happy new year! :) 13:38:38 <planetmaker> hm... they found a planetary system with 7 other planets. One boiling earth-like and 4 Neptun - sized boiling gas planets closer in than Earth here and two Saturn-like ones further out... 13:38:40 <planetmaker> interesting. 13:38:58 * roboboy is over these Happy New Years as he is now in the 2nd of January 13:39:29 <avdg> the news told me that you may wish everyone a happy new year till the end of this month :p 13:40:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.144] has joined #openttd 13:40:42 <dihedral> avdg - are you avd on flyspray? 13:40:47 <avdg> yes 13:40:54 <dihedral> the $ is not needed 13:41:40 <avdg> Hmm, I thought it was needed for full matches 13:43:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm not sure what to do next wrt to RoadTypes :O 13:43:39 <andythenorth> the elevated idea is knocked on the head 13:44:15 <planetmaker> design clean NewGRF specs 13:44:51 <andythenorth> k 13:45:02 <planetmaker> I'd not bother about elevated :-) 13:45:11 <planetmaker> That hack can continue to work by abusing catenary 13:47:11 <Mazur> Is that one of those locks with a specific width and length, for which special ships were built sailing that route in Belgium and France? 13:47:16 <andythenorth> I figure existing railtype spec is a good place to start 13:47:29 <planetmaker> jo 13:47:58 <Mazur> By the way, best fishes for the new deer, everyone. 13:48:07 *** Devroush [~dennis@94-225-75-247.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:48:09 <planetmaker> having them as similar as reasonably possible certainly will help both you implementing it as well as prospective grf authors ;-) 13:50:16 <andythenorth> trams currently appear to have same acceleration model as other RVs 13:50:34 <andythenorth> which would make railtype prop 15 un-needed 13:50:38 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes 13:51:33 <planetmaker> how so? 13:51:34 <Mazur> Until someone implements a specific tram-acceleration model. 13:52:38 <andythenorth> exactly 13:53:09 <planetmaker> ah, you mean you don't need an accel property? 13:53:47 <andythenorth> yup 13:54:07 <planetmaker> for now then probably not. But you could probably at little cost 13:56:09 <andythenorth> I will have to read a lot of acceleration code to see if this is needed :D http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes#Curve_Speed_advantage_multiplier_11_ 14:04:30 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@81.51.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 14:07:46 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:355e:9b0e:377e:27a0] has joined #openttd 14:07:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:07:48 <Wolf01> anybody good with php? I'm reading some strings from a file with fgets but I want to remove the \n, but seem my php doesn't like it, in fact it prints it as "\n" if I use it on strings and doesn't find it if the string contains a newline 14:08:46 <glx> IIRC fgets removes the \n 14:09:42 <Wolf01> I thought it too 14:09:57 <__ln__> Wolf01: why not use python instead? 14:10:16 <Wolf01> because I don't know python 14:10:27 <Wolf01> and I don't have it installed 14:10:34 <andythenorth> one good reason :) 14:10:52 <__ln__> Wolf01: C then? 14:11:05 <glx> unless you use binary mode 14:13:00 <Wolf01> I don't know too much about webservers, I only have apache+php installed and I'm learning php to do simple things 14:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what andythenorth and __ln__ are trying to tell you was: python is much easier to learn to do simple things 14:14:49 <__ln__> exactly, having to mess with something as low-level as fgets() in a so-called high-level language is sad. 14:15:58 <Wolf01> eh, that's from a tutorial on "reading text files with php" 14:16:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: yes. and now read a tutorial on "reading text files with python" 14:18:19 <Alberth> f = open(fname, 'r'); line = f.readline() 14:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd do: file = open(filename); for line in file: do_stuff_with(line) 14:19:06 <Alberth> I was about to type that too :) 14:19:38 <Zuu> $lines = file("filename"); foreach($lines as $line) { print $line; } 14:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: that looks totally scary. 14:20:11 <Alberth> now do a multi-assignment in the for-loop :) 14:20:12 <Zuu> It's not as efficient as uing open + readline, but on small files it may do the trick. 14:20:49 <Alberth> or apply an index operation on a result of a function call 14:21:26 <Alberth> Wolf01: PHP is just a terrible language, if you have a choice, stay away from it 14:21:39 <Zuu> Not sure what a multi-assingment or index operation is. 14:21:56 <Zuu> But I do have to agree PHP is not very good as language, it's just the defacto standard. 14:21:57 <Alberth> x, y = (1, 2) 14:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: variable,content = line.split('=',1) 14:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: or content = line.split('=',1)[1] 14:22:34 <Alberth> def f(): return (1, 2) ; y = f()[0] <-- you cannot do that in php 14:22:48 <Zuu> No 14:23:02 <Zuu> But you can return arrays and the parse those arrays. 14:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: again, that sounds totally scary ;) 14:25:59 <Alberth> having C-like functions for strings in a language aimed at manipulating text is just broken beyond repair imho 14:26:29 <Alberth> ie strcmp(x,y) != 0 vs x == y 14:26:35 <Mazur> Why not use perl? 14:26:46 <andythenorth> la la la la 14:26:55 <Alberth> Mazur: anything else than PHP is better :) 14:27:01 <andythenorth> bit early in the year for a holy way 14:27:08 * andythenorth thinks road types wouldn't need this property http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes#Curve_Speed_advantage_multiplier_11_ 14:27:18 <Mazur> It's not for nothing: Practical Extraction and Reporting Language. 14:27:25 <andythenorth> and even if someone can make a case for it, they're wrong 14:27:30 <Wolf01> I could do it in asp but I don't want to install MS things 14:27:38 <Alberth> Mazur: I don't know Perl, "do the right thing depending on context" don't go well together 14:27:47 * Zuu suggests that Alberth try the WAP language 14:27:59 <Zuu> VAP* 14:28:11 <Mazur> Perl is _so_ easy to learn. 14:29:00 <Alberth> WAP is a markup language :) 14:29:25 <Zuu> That's not what I was suggesting (or intended to suggest) 14:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it could be useful for highways, where you still can't get around 90° curves... 14:31:05 <Alberth> Zuu: have a URL? the closest I get is "visual agent programming" which doesn't sound right. 14:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and dirt roads/ice roads might have reduced curve speed 14:31:31 <Zuu> Here is a Lab of some random university with it: http://www.webs1.uidaho.edu/ce474/Lab_files/Fall%2006/Lab%205%20HILS%20and%20VAP%20green%20time%20utilization%20Tutorial.pdf 14:31:45 <Alberth> Mazur: I prefer a language where a constructs does exactly the same, independent of context. 14:31:52 <Zuu> It's however hard to find any good open document on it. 14:32:18 <Alberth> there is no open implementation? 14:32:36 <Zuu> But the basics are that you can only define your own methods (no return values and no input parameters) and there are only global scope variables. :-) 14:33:05 <Zuu> I don't think there is any open implementation as it's part of VisSim which is rather expansive. 14:33:20 <Zuu> Though they are moving to Python it seems. 14:33:28 <Alberth> s/expansive/expensive/ I hope :) 14:34:20 <Zuu> indeed 14:34:27 * Alberth hates vendor lock-ins 14:34:39 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has joined #openttd 14:40:35 <glevans2> <Mazur> Why not use perl? <---the force is strong in this one... 14:43:38 * roboboy tries to go to sleep 14:44:00 <Markslap> It's only 03:44 PM. 14:44:51 <Wolf01> he lives on Mars 14:45:03 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:46:46 <Alberth> with a VERY fast Internet connection :p 14:47:16 <Markslap> I would say that U, S and the A is Mars, but not Austrailia. 14:47:16 <Wolf01> that's not a problem, the problem is the latency 14:47:21 <Mazur> Faster than light. 14:48:09 <Alberth> Wolf01: yes, faster as in small latency, not the usual confused "fast = much bandwidth" 14:52:48 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 14:53:00 <DanMacK> Identify Cyclone 14:53:05 <DanMacK> whoops :P 14:53:27 * Eddi|zuHause makes note of DanMacK's password 14:53:30 * DanMacK changes his Nickserv PW now 14:55:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I can't see any vehicle movement code that would use the curve property 14:55:05 <andythenorth> I know there must be some 14:55:15 <andythenorth> I've searched all the useful strings I could think of :P 14:55:42 <Wolf01> DanMacK, you shouldn't use too simple passwords 14:56:06 <Xaroth> would be more fun to just ghost him, Eddi|zuHause :P 14:56:11 <Xaroth> like, instantly :P 14:56:44 <DanMacK> Yeah... I know :P 14:56:59 <DanMacK> PW changed ;) 14:57:10 <Wolf01> I have a script which I can use in case of emergency to reset my password in 2 seconds if I type it by mistake :D 14:57:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: yes, but i'm not evil enough to do that 14:57:43 <Xaroth> you have much to learn, Eddi|zuHause :P 14:58:18 <Xaroth> and why 'type' your password 14:58:48 <Xaroth> normal clients have perfectly capable ways of doing that for you 14:58:54 <Xaroth> without the chance of it landing in a channel :P 14:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hunter2 ;) 14:59:12 *** George|2 is now known as George 14:59:28 <Wolf01> indeed, I use a script for identification 15:00:17 <Xaroth> heh 15:00:22 <Xaroth> as i said, 'normal clients' :P 15:00:40 <Xaroth> and yes, Eddi|zuHause, ******* :) 15:00:52 <Wolf01> if you use 3 servers you can't do that with a normal client 15:00:56 <Xaroth> hah 15:01:00 <Xaroth> i'm on 4 15:01:03 <Xaroth> and all 4 identified 15:01:08 <andythenorth> my brain thinks there should be RV curve code in roadveh_cmd.cpp 15:01:09 <Xaroth> and all 4 without a script :) 15:01:12 <andythenorth> but I can't see it :P 15:01:40 <Wolf01> I was able to use the feature to identify to one server at time 15:01:56 <Xaroth> Wolf01: as i said, you need a 'normal' client for it :) 15:01:59 <Alberth> andythenorth: src/train_cmd.cpp:371 15:02:17 <andythenorth> Alberth: thanks 15:02:22 <Alberth> andythenorth: grep -rni curve src 15:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: even mIRC has per-server-"performs" 15:02:27 <Wolf01> eh, legacy mirc, I'm nostalgic 15:02:55 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:03:24 <andythenorth> some RV code is unified with train code? 15:03:31 <andythenorth> wrt to speed in curves etc 15:04:29 <Alberth> no idea, /me does not understand vehicle traveling code 15:04:56 <Alberth> perhaps I should first look at something less complicated than trains :) 15:05:25 <andythenorth> the curve code looks simple in itself 15:06:06 <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: even mIRC has per-server-"performs" <- I use that in fact, but to call the script whick checks for the user-password in another file 15:06:23 <Alberth> that could be, I was looking at train reversal, a much more complicated topic 15:06:52 <andythenorth> can't figure out if RVs use that curve code though 15:06:59 <andythenorth> a search for GetCurveSpeedLimit only shows trains using it 15:08:02 <Alberth> do RVs slow down in a corner? 15:08:12 <Alberth> s/corner/curve/ 15:10:05 <Yexo> yes 15:12:12 <Yexo> see RoadVehicle::GetCurrentMaxSpeed 15:12:19 <Yexo> roadveh_cmd.cpp:390 15:13:01 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:31 <Alberth> ah: ... 75% in curves */ 15:13:49 <Xaroth> SQL/DB Error -- [MySQL server has gone away] 15:13:51 <Xaroth> heh 15:14:23 <Xaroth> probably on a vacation 15:14:30 <andythenorth> Yexo: thanks 15:22:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.161.144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:12 *** perk11 [~perk11@85.175.118.133] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:57:44 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 15:58:35 *** stAckedflow [~stAckedfl@99-33-250-50.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:03:07 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.52.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:31 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.52.147] has joined #openttd 16:06:30 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.52.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:28 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-182.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:13:06 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:10 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B7349.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:21:27 *** fjb is now known as Guest2866 16:21:29 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE030.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:34 *** Guest2866 [~frank@p5DDFDEAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:35:57 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21686 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Cleanup: remove unused constants and comment used ones 16:44:08 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B6A8.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:45:14 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 16:48:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: seems that everything here would be needed for RoadTypes except prop 15 16:48:12 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes 16:48:35 <andythenorth> and implementing prop 15 might not do harm, except I think it's pointless 16:48:44 <planetmaker> powered is not needed 16:48:48 <Yexo> what about prop 0F ? 16:49:10 <planetmaker> also station graphics 16:49:28 <planetmaker> there are no different types 16:49:56 <planetmaker> a flag is sufficient whether the default or your own shall be used 16:50:11 <planetmaker> though "always your own" would be good, too 16:50:17 <Yexo> why not always use the default and implement something like newgrf road-stations? 16:50:36 <planetmaker> Yexo: sure. But that extends the scope even more :-) 16:51:01 *** IvanS [~istepaniu@16.Red-79-158-215.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 16:51:04 <Yexo> as long as you limit it to the default station types and only allow new graphics is quite simple to implement 16:52:02 <planetmaker> you mean terminus and dtrs? 16:52:13 <planetmaker> type as in ^ 16:52:20 <Yexo> you also need a list of road types that can coexist on the same tile. While "normal road + tram" makes sense, and "dirt road + tram" would also work, "dirt road + normal road" no so 16:52:25 <Yexo> planetmaker: yes 16:53:41 <planetmaker> Yexo: that's why I'd allow two principal types: tracks + tarmac, where no two can co-exist. The third flag which would fit there is 'catenary' 16:54:31 <Zuu> Is it a honor to be named Albert? 16:54:39 <IvanS> Hello and Happy new year, I am having problems with the networking game server list. I can see many servers (more than 100), but servers that I know that are online are appearing as offline in the list, thus I cannot join them. 16:54:46 <Yexo> in that case you'll need a property for that, railtypes don't have that 16:55:19 <planetmaker> I'd call it road flags or so. But yes 16:55:37 <Yexo> IvanS: what version of openttd are you using? 16:55:46 <IvanS> 1.0.5, on Debian 16:56:05 <IvanS> note that i CAN connect using the "connect" command from the command line 16:56:07 <planetmaker> did you try to add the ip manually? 16:56:08 <Zuu> IvanS: Do you host or know the owner of the server you can't find? 16:56:15 <IvanS> the IP is already on the list 16:56:21 <IvanS> it's just offline. 16:56:42 <planetmaker> did you update the server list? and is the server's firewall properly configured? 16:56:49 <Yexo> @ports 16:56:49 <DorpsGek> Yexo: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 16:56:53 <planetmaker> and routers to the server? 16:57:06 <andythenorth> planetmaker: agreed on the allowed flags 16:57:12 <Yexo> IvanS: could it be that your router blocks UDP port 3979? 16:57:28 <andythenorth> prop 15 is required if rv-wagons becomes available 16:57:33 <IvanS> yes, I have a very simple NAT setup, my dsl router, I even tried forcing the UDP ports back to my PC in case it was not doing it automatically. 16:57:37 <Yexo> IIRC UDP 3979 is used to check if a server is online, UDP port 3978 is used to get the list of servers 16:57:48 <Yexo> TCP 3979 is used to join a server, so that appears to work fine 16:58:14 <IvanS> yes, the other servers show as online. and as far as I can see the same method is used 16:58:27 <Yexo> oh, it's only 1 server that shows as offline? 16:58:29 <andythenorth> and (depending on what callbacks can be used), prop 15 is needed for this: http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/Industry_Solutions/Mining/mining-solutions/Pages/Trolley-Assist-Haul-Trucks.aspx 16:58:48 <Zuu> IvanS: Does this problem server show up on openttd.org/servers? 16:58:57 <IvanS> yes It's one that I know that it's online and that I CAN join using the command line (connect bla bla) 16:59:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes, the accel model doesn't hurt to have. Like trams can get a rail model then 16:59:17 <IvanS> the server is quite popular, it's Lukkland's server, a lot of ppl is playing there 16:59:35 <andythenorth> hmm 16:59:52 <IvanS> I already spoke with the guys that run the server and we are clueless 16:59:53 <planetmaker> they're advertized. Check your routers and firewall. 16:59:57 <andythenorth> for those trucks it's not prop 15 that's needed, but prop 0F 17:00:09 <andythenorth> (prop 15 is still useful to have I think) 17:00:59 <IvanS> I used wireshark to see what's happening, I see 3 bytes going to every advertised server. Then online servers answer with their name and description on my originating port 17:01:21 <IvanS> *to 17:02:31 <Yexo> and do you receive an answer from luukland's server? 17:02:43 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21687 /trunk/src/ (console_type.h network/network_client.cpp): -Fix: verify the colour code we received from the server is valid 17:02:56 <Yexo> if not, it's something between that server and your computer, not a problem with OpenTTD 17:03:29 *** fanioz [~fanioz@125.167.89.190] has joined #openttd 17:03:39 <IvanS> port used for discovery is the same used when joining? 17:04:12 <Yexo> for discovery UDP port 3979 is used, for joining TCP port 3979 17:04:34 <IvanS> oh, I see, that could explain why I can join manually 17:07:11 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21688 /trunk/src/console.cpp: -Codechange: verify the colour code passed to IConsolePrint()/IConsolePrintF() is valid 17:09:44 <IvanS> Could it be some router limitation? I mean, sending 200 UDP packets to 200 different servers from the same originating port means the router has to remember those 200 UDP streams to make the answers come back 17:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> UDP has no "connections" 17:10:18 <IvanS> I know 17:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> it's "fire-and-forget" 17:11:03 <IvanS> partially true, the router has to remember those "fire-and-forget" to send the packets back to the originating private address 17:12:13 <andythenorth> how does rail types handle depots? 17:12:37 <andythenorth> does it use the station action 0 property? 17:12:44 <planetmaker> they can be provided as railtype-specific graphics 17:12:52 <andythenorth> I can see nutracks is providing custom depots, I can't see how in the spec 17:13:03 <planetmaker> no action0. All different rail sprites are "cargo" types 17:13:32 <planetmaker> see http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action3 17:13:41 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:14:04 <ZirconiumX> hello 17:14:09 <planetmaker> hi 17:14:30 <ZirconiumX> hello PM, how (badly) is it going 17:14:56 <Rubidium> dihedral: IIRC I did, but bugs.openttd.org isn't vcs.openttd.org, so I tried that as well 17:17:33 <IvanS> In any case it seems that UDP packets are not comming back from that particular server (luukland). That wouldn't be surprising if it were not because UDP is comming back from every other server and because everyone else can see Luukland's server as online. 17:18:28 <IvanS> I will try forcing my public IP to change, it seems that the intertubes are failing on me :P 17:18:43 <Terkhen> andythenorth: road vehicles use their own function for curves, IIRC they are reduced to 75% of their speed 17:18:46 <Terkhen> and hello :) 17:18:49 <andythenorth> hi hi 17:18:53 <ZirconiumX> hi! 17:18:56 <IvanS> hey 17:19:10 <Rubidium> Luukland runs a custom build of OpenTTD, so it's totally unsupported by us in any case 17:19:40 <IvanS> I was just hopping there was the "check your X setting, noob!" answer ;) 17:19:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the spec you wrote this morning - you defined a flag for use_default_depot 17:19:49 <andythenorth> is that needed? 17:19:49 <IvanS> I will also reset my -made in china- router haha 17:20:06 <planetmaker> not really. But rail type authors asked for it 17:20:08 <Terkhen> andythenorth: road vehicle and train acceleration code is unified almost completely besides curves, for example you could easily make road vehicles use a different acceleration model just by changing this function: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/roadveh.h#L261 17:20:12 <Rubidium> IvanS: might very well be that your IP is banned by Luukland 17:20:21 <Terkhen> currently road vehicles always use 0 (normal) 17:20:36 <IvanS> yeh, I thought that, asked, and it's not 17:20:42 <IvanS> many thanks anyway 17:21:15 <IvanS> I will figure this thing out, whatever it takes :D 17:21:23 <andythenorth> Terkhen: so RVs could use a custom acceleration function? 17:21:34 <planetmaker> might also be that they hacked it to a broken state. There's no more modified version which claims to be unmodified than their servers 17:21:38 <andythenorth> hmm....but not defined in nfo :P 17:21:58 <Terkhen> andythenorth: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes#Acceleration_model_15_ <-- I meant these models 17:21:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth: they could use RV, train, monorail or maglev 17:22:15 <Terkhen> if you define a different one it could be added too 17:22:28 <Terkhen> they are just a bunch of if/elses in the acceleration function 17:23:56 <andythenorth> ok 17:24:04 <andythenorth> so roadtypes could easily use prop 15 17:24:49 <Terkhen> yes, check the equivalent function for trains: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser/trunk/src/train.h#L472 17:24:51 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-182.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 17:24:51 <andythenorth> so hover bus could be told to use maglev for example...(but it's defined by the road type...) 17:24:55 <andythenorth> hmm 17:25:02 <Terkhen> it just returns that property from the railtype 17:25:35 <andythenorth> it's a small distraction....but how would something like hoverbus relate to roadtype? 17:26:41 <Terkhen> it would require a special "hover road" IMO 17:27:05 <IvanS> In a totally unrelated question. Does openttd use SDL_ttf to render fonts? 17:27:10 <andythenorth> would that be a type of tarmac or track? 17:27:25 <ZirconiumX> @ Terken in other words anything that doesnt have trees on... 17:27:38 <Terkhen> ZirconiumX: what? 17:27:41 <ZirconiumX> *Terkhen 17:27:53 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I suppose 17:28:03 <ZirconiumX> if it hovers, why does it need a road 17:28:09 <ZirconiumX> it doesn'tt touch it 17:28:24 <andythenorth> well yes 17:28:25 <ZirconiumX> the only thing stopping it is a tree 17:28:31 <andythenorth> but it has to follow a route :P 17:28:59 <ZirconiumX> sat nav? 17:29:11 *** fanioz [~fanioz@125.167.89.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:15 <Zuu> Maybe law requires it to follow a road in order to not registry as an aircraft? 17:29:30 <andythenorth> is there any case for not allowing a roadtype to use bridges? 17:29:36 <ZirconiumX> a hovercraft is an aircraft 17:29:38 <andythenorth> (any sane case) 17:29:50 <planetmaker> IvanS: that depends. And I'm not sure about OS which use SDL. We use libfreetype and fontconfig 17:30:33 <ZirconiumX> why don't we have in airports ground effect vehicle track 17:30:48 <andythenorth> also - do I remember weight limits being discussed for rail types and dismissed due to being a step too far? 17:30:52 <ZirconiumX> hovercraft, hoverbus, flying saucer 17:31:10 <Alberth> Zuu: must be, your answer was an order of magnitude more useful :p 17:31:38 <Zuu> hehe 17:31:55 <ZirconiumX> FTTB we can replace the tramtrack with a coil ish thing 17:32:51 <Zuu> ZirconiumX: And make it play music? :-p 17:33:06 <ZirconiumX> yes 17:33:08 <Wolf01> futurama tubes to transport people: invisible cars with 1 passenger capacity 17:33:16 <ZirconiumX> subwoofer track 17:33:46 * ZirconiumX sneaks in control panel and plays a genesis track 17:33:46 <Zuu> Nah, I was thinking about playing music in the coil :-) 17:34:04 <Zuu> like a t-coil :-) 17:34:11 * ZirconiumX causes havoc everywhere 17:34:16 <ZirconiumX> ok 17:34:51 <ZirconiumX> if we have it suspended in air, we can create the illusion of hovering 17:35:09 <ZirconiumX> maglev tramtracks 17:35:16 <ZirconiumX> no busses though 17:35:59 <IvanS> planetmaker: I'm trying to understand if there is some way to get antialias on linux 17:36:13 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 17:36:17 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:36:42 <Rubidium> IvanS: 32bpp blitter + enable aa in the config file? 17:37:32 <IvanS> hmmm leeme see... 17:38:27 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:01 * andythenorth wonders what things road types might need that rail types *doesn't* have 17:41:23 <ZirconiumX> stripes? 17:42:01 <andythenorth> most helpful, thanks 17:42:11 <andythenorth> :P 17:42:54 <ZirconiumX> ;) 17:43:11 <IvanS> Rubidium: thanks! that's just what I wanted. With the "32bpp-anim" bliter it makes strange artifacts on the fonts, but then it fixes by itself after few seconds 17:43:26 <ZirconiumX> more specific? Graphics, features 17:43:41 <IvanS> Rubidium: "32bpp-optimized" works right. 17:43:51 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: nfo action 0 properties, varaction 2, or callbacks 17:44:27 <IvanS> Rubidium: anyway it's a must with a 22 inch monitor, pixels are just too small at the native res 17:45:32 *** KouDy [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:18 *** KouDy [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 17:47:43 * ZirconiumX has no idea what ATN just said 17:50:16 * ZirconiumX still has no idea what andythenorth just said 17:50:57 <andythenorth> how might this need to be extended for road types? 17:50:57 <andythenorth> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Railtypes 17:51:11 <andythenorth> and this: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Railtypes 17:52:03 <andythenorth> hmm 17:52:38 <andythenorth> I thought pikka asked for extension of cb36 - called when railtype changes 17:52:55 <andythenorth> I can't find a forum thread / anything in newgrf spec 17:53:02 * andythenorth to the code! 17:53:02 <ZirconiumX> I still maintain stripes 17:56:28 <ZirconiumX> I've found two topics, but I'm not sure that it's the correct one 17:56:43 <ZirconiumX> cb36 for 0D applied inconsistantly to dual-headed vehicles 17:56:56 <ZirconiumX> Problems with CB36 in recent Nightlies 17:57:24 <IvanS> Thanks everyone for the help! And many thanks for everyone who makes this great game. I've also just donated 5 ⬠by paypal, I know it's not much but for the moment I have a very thin wallet, like many ppl here in Spain. have a good year everyone. 18:01:27 <Alberth> your welcome :) and thank you for the donation. 18:01:54 <Alberth> s/your/y're/ 18:02:26 <ZirconiumX> s/y're/you're 18:04:16 <Alberth> yeah, indeed :( 18:04:42 <ZirconiumX> the o and u keys not working? 18:06:45 <andythenorth> hmm 18:06:50 <andythenorth> I was wrong 18:06:56 <dihedral> :-P 18:07:00 <andythenorth> vehicles access var 4A to find current railtype 18:07:04 <andythenorth> is that not expensive then? 18:08:14 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: not thinking deeply enough 18:08:17 <planetmaker> well... it cannot be cached 18:11:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wasn't there a list of rail type labels somewhere? 18:11:21 <dihedral> how much time is left until branching? - i.e. will there be another beta? 18:11:23 <andythenorth> I thought they were added to newgrf wiki? 18:11:36 <planetmaker> yes, there is. It's linked from the railtypes page 18:12:01 <andythenorth> ho 18:12:02 <andythenorth> thanks 18:12:10 <planetmaker> np :-) 18:12:21 <andythenorth> it seems I need other people to read the wiki pages I am staring at today 18:12:39 <andythenorth> it was a late night and early morning, relatively speaking 18:14:02 <andythenorth> so apart from speed, anything to do with vehicle performance should be handled by the vehicle newgrf? Using cb36 and var 4A? 18:14:20 <andythenorth> this means vehicle grf authors have to maintain a translation table? 18:14:33 <planetmaker> yes 18:19:14 * andythenorth puzzles about vehicles and types 18:26:49 <andythenorth> so a vehicle has one type 18:27:28 <andythenorth> and one type only 18:27:33 *** IvanS [~istepaniu@16.Red-79-158-215.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #openttd [] 18:28:03 <planetmaker> yes 18:28:10 <planetmaker> and can drive on compatible types, too 18:28:22 <planetmaker> that's why the road type defines a list of compatible types 18:29:01 <andythenorth> I'm trying to figure out how that might work in the case of dirt roads vs. roads vs. highways 18:29:06 <andythenorth> for example 18:29:22 <andythenorth> I'll write it out for myself 18:29:28 <planetmaker> the dirt one would be compatible to the others, but they not to dirt 18:29:37 <planetmaker> the dirt vehicles would define dirt as they road type 18:30:02 <planetmaker> s/as they/as their/ 18:30:24 <andythenorth> lets say some dirt vehicles were banned from highways 18:30:32 <andythenorth> but highway vehicles can travel on dirt 18:31:02 <planetmaker> then dirt: compatible = normal; highway: compatible = normal, dirt 18:32:19 <andythenorth> ok that makes sense 18:32:40 <andythenorth> as long as labels don't spiral into zillions of definitions, it's all sane 18:33:15 <planetmaker> you can't avoid that. But that's newgrf authors' responsibility 18:36:06 *** prank [~foo@host143-22-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:38:35 <andythenorth> not possible to do something like preventing large trucks in city centres (based on weight, not a specific type) 18:40:19 <Alberth> does not sound like something you'd want to enforce, what if through the city center is the only road available? 18:41:17 <andythenorth> probably not a wise idea 18:41:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you can do that also via newgrf without adding that explicitly 18:41:46 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I wasn't thinking the game should do that - just testing the newgrf spec ;) 18:41:50 <planetmaker> "just" define your trucks on the "heavy" road and make a road newgrf "heavy" which is not compatible with the road type in cities 18:42:00 <planetmaker> without newgrf spec addition 18:42:11 <andythenorth> and all roads out of town have to be built for 'heavy' 18:42:12 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:42:22 <planetmaker> except dirt ;-) 18:42:29 <planetmaker> 'light dirt' :-P 18:42:41 <planetmaker> probably sand mixed with corn flower or so 18:43:12 <Alberth> HEQS vehicles use surprisingly often dirt roads :) 18:43:26 <Alberth> ie in mines 18:44:10 <ZirconiumX> PM there was a spilt load over all of the road 18:44:53 <planetmaker> Alberth: but those don't use the corn flower dirt ;-) - they use real dirt. :-P 18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r21689 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt serbian.txt traditional_chinese.txt): 18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 73 changes by josesun 18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv 18:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 1 changes by etran 18:49:39 * andythenorth discards various elaborate schemes for roads 18:49:46 <andythenorth> way too complicated 18:53:26 *** nicfer [~nicfer@190.50.61.137] has joined #openttd 18:53:55 * ZirconiumX puts an extra few pounds on the table 18:54:11 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-223-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:55:06 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 18:55:32 <DanMacK> Hmph 18:56:01 <andythenorth> ? 18:56:18 <DanMacK> Server crash, haven't been able to get online for nearly 3 hours 18:56:54 <DanMacK> on the bright side, I was getting paid /hr to sit here :P 18:57:23 <ZirconiumX> bargain! 18:57:43 <DanMacK> now for more spriting 18:58:30 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:30 <andythenorth> so road types seems to overlap rail types 18:58:43 * andythenorth wonders about water types :P 18:59:04 <ABCRic> air types! :D 18:59:16 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 19:00:00 <ZirconiumX> ABCRic altitudes? 19:00:28 <ABCRic> could be 19:01:07 <ABCRic> maybe some futuristic stuff 19:01:11 <ABCRic> flying cars 19:01:17 <ABCRic> of different altitudes 19:01:18 <ZirconiumX> nope 19:01:31 <ZirconiumX> Ground-effect and airbourne 19:01:33 <andythenorth> hmm 19:01:34 <ABCRic> and floating stations :) 19:01:43 <ZirconiumX> hovercraft is airplane 19:01:52 <ABCRic> and buildings over buildings :D 19:02:10 <ZirconiumX> and *sky*scrapers 19:02:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: found a problem 19:02:38 <andythenorth> a 'track' road type and a 'road' road type could both define custom catenary 19:02:40 <andythenorth> who wins? 19:02:53 <Terkhen> trains win by default ;) 19:02:56 <ZirconiumX> IMO neither 19:03:12 <andythenorth> Terkhen: 'track' in this case == trams or similar 19:03:19 <Terkhen> oh :) 19:03:30 <andythenorth> this not an issue for rail types because there's only one type per tile 19:03:46 <ABCRic> hybrid catenary :D 19:04:01 <andythenorth> I guess one would have to take preference 19:04:57 <planetmaker> andythenorth: allow only tracks to have catenary maybe? 19:05:13 <andythenorth> fails for trolley buses, trolley trucks, and some mining trucks 19:05:18 <andythenorth> one just has to win 19:05:19 <planetmaker> having tracks without catenary and road vehicles with concurrently will not be needed too often 19:05:25 <planetmaker> then trolley just define invisible tracks 19:05:52 <andythenorth> that would block trams and trolley bus using same tile 19:06:02 <planetmaker> yes 19:07:01 <planetmaker> I see no big problem there 19:09:23 <andythenorth> http://www.rhaworth.myby.co.uk/trtr/ 19:09:33 * DanMacK came into the middle of this conversation 19:10:24 * ZirconiumX pushes DanMacK back out again 19:10:26 <DanMacK> Are we discussing roadtypes? 19:10:34 <ZirconiumX> yes and no 19:10:38 <Terkhen> yes 19:11:14 <DanMacK> interesting indeed 19:11:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: as I understand it, they can cross at best 19:11:52 <planetmaker> and then it's not a problem, just draw both 19:12:12 <planetmaker> just like your monorail and tram tracks ;-) 19:12:30 <andythenorth> seems australia had trams and trolleys sharing catenary....but that's by the by 19:14:04 <andythenorth> http://www.railforthevalley.com/tag/trolleybus/ 19:16:02 * andythenorth thinks there must be a nice solution to this issue 19:16:11 <andythenorth> it's only a graphical problem in this case 19:30:34 <ZirconiumX> there probably isn't 19:35:40 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 19:36:15 <andythenorth> draw catenary twice, it's the players problem if it looks rubbish? 19:36:55 <ZirconiumX> draw no catenay 19:42:56 <Alberth> doesn't a road type have catenary by itself? 19:43:27 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think that's the logical answer 19:43:49 <andythenorth> the issue is that for a tile, there can be a 'road' road type and a 'track' road type 19:43:59 <andythenorth> so 2x catenary would be drawn 19:44:04 <andythenorth> which might look lame 19:44:17 <Alberth> which makes it possibly not correct, NewGRFs tend to do things differently than 'logical' :) 19:44:33 <andythenorth> but if I was a newgrf author, I'd either make sure my catenary fitted together, or just use one type 19:45:18 <andythenorth> makes me wonder if 'road' road type and 'track' track type is correct.... 19:45:21 <Alberth> but in different directions 19:45:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how do you make sure that your trolley catenary fits my tram cateneries? 19:45:43 <andythenorth> I can't 19:45:48 <planetmaker> both the Geneva and the Berlin type? ;-) 19:45:49 <andythenorth> and that's one of my worries 19:45:51 <planetmaker> yeah 19:46:08 <andythenorth> for rail types, there's fewer reasons to mix grfs 19:46:12 <planetmaker> that's why I'd not allow two road types with catenary on one tile in the same direction 19:46:19 <andythenorth> but I think road types might tend to come along with vehicle sets 19:46:37 <andythenorth> I think just allow it to look bad 19:47:14 <andythenorth> there's so much bad looking newgrf stuff already, we don't damage the spec to try and impose taste do we? 19:49:40 * ZirconiumX compiling fish 19:50:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: specs cannot enforce taste 19:50:58 <andythenorth> so I think allow two types of catenary per tile *if* the sprite sorter / map can handle it 19:51:20 <andythenorth> I have read the catenary code, but I'm not sure if it can handle applying two lots of graphics yet 19:51:43 <andythenorth> I think it might need some horrible interleaving as well 19:52:54 <ZirconiumX> polite nudge: what does the existing railway catenary do when noninterconnectabll rails connect? 19:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: why would it do anything? 19:54:10 <Alberth> break horribly, although there is one one standard rail type with catenaty, so no way to tell 19:54:38 <ZirconiumX> so why should two noninterconnectable catenary typres intersect, I think it should fail 19:54:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it would have two possibly different-looking catenary cables connecting 19:55:13 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: at a road-crossing? I think not 19:55:15 <andythenorth> the case for rail types is of no use here 19:55:23 <andythenorth> there's only one rail type per tile 19:55:28 <andythenorth> doesn't help 19:55:45 <andythenorth> the issue is two sets of catenary on one tile 19:55:46 <ZirconiumX> so there's only one road type per tile 19:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, there is some magic about cantenary on neighbouring tiles 19:56:02 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: that breaks the existing game 19:56:24 <andythenorth> it means no trams in town 19:56:37 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: expand on 'magic' ?? 19:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: that would kinda defeat the point of trams. 19:58:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the rail-catenary code looks at the 4 adjacent tiles, to check if there is catenary as well. if there isn't, it omits some wires to those tiles. makes a visual illusion of catenary and non-catenary rail intersecting 19:59:46 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: does that apply to rail types? I'm testing with nu tracks and seeing no difference at intersections 20:00:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: when i wrote that code, there was only one electrified rail type, i haven't tested with new railtypes yet. 20:01:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I see it for default tracks :) nice touch 20:03:59 <ZirconiumX> why don't you apply the catenary sprites, but not the tramtrack sprites 20:05:20 <andythenorth> because it would be a boring source of bug reports by players 20:06:02 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:06:23 <andythenorth> hmm 20:06:32 <andythenorth> well they were fun suggestions 20:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it seems to work with nutracks as well 20:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but it will probably cause glitches when two tracks with different catenary connect 20:07:15 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I see it now 20:09:38 <andythenorth> I can't produce glitches with nutracks + uk tracks, but I don't have an exhaustive knowledge of rail type grfs :P 20:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... in nutracks... the "subway with stuff on top" graphics use animated colours... it's very disturbing... 20:10:13 <andythenorth> yes 20:10:14 <andythenorth> :D 20:13:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how would you handle having possibility of 2x catenary per tile? 20:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd probably just "randomly" [i.e. undefined, but deterministic] select one and draw that, ignoring the other type 20:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> like of the type with the highest ID 20:15:16 <andythenorth> that was my first thought 20:15:23 <andythenorth> most catenary is only a few pixels 20:15:32 <andythenorth> its a bit much to care about which gets drawn 20:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still of the opinion we need 3 roadtypes per tile [or 2 roadtypes and one railtype on crossings] 20:16:38 <andythenorth> for why? 20:17:18 <Terkhen> road + tram crossing a different type of road 20:17:47 *** KouDy [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:53 <andythenorth> ach yes 20:18:07 <andythenorth> also two types of 'tram' might cross 20:18:22 <andythenorth> so four per tile 20:18:38 <Terkhen> I can't visualize that many road types crossing, though 20:18:49 <andythenorth> I can, but only on a big map :P 20:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> 4 is kinda over the top... 20:19:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@245.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 20:19:48 <andythenorth> direction 1: dirt road + overhead cable car skip; direction 2: standard road + tram 20:19:54 <andythenorth> easy peasy :P 20:20:17 <andythenorth> tramway + busway; highway + overhead monorail 20:20:45 <andythenorth> athough I discount the overhead stuff as crazy hacks with at least nine hundred problems 20:21:02 <DanMacK> Look at Zehyris/ overhear Monorail 20:21:07 <DanMacK> *overhead 20:21:24 <andythenorth> DanMacK: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/elevated_routes.png 20:21:41 <andythenorth> some...issues 20:23:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: in the implementation, why limit it to three? 20:23:21 <DanMacK> clearly... 20:23:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: mainly consideration of map array space. 20:23:29 <andythenorth> (without understanding code), seems easier to permit two types direction 1, two types in direction 2 20:23:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need 4 bits for the roadtype ID and 4 bits for the "bits" 20:32:40 <andythenorth> 3 basic road types is already implemented iirc? 20:33:03 <andythenorth> road + tram + empty slot 20:33:07 * andythenorth to the code 20:34:28 <SmatZ> there is no "empty slot" anymore 20:34:30 <SmatZ> I think 20:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> it was planned once, but that was before the current development of "road types" 20:42:09 <Wolf01> a seller near my town is cheating, he is selling his three-wheeler now, he used it to sell oranges from sicily 20:45:27 <andythenorth> I have a three wheeler :) 20:55:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i once had a three wheeler... 20:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> ... when it was appropriate for my age... 20:57:41 <Wolf01> here it is used mostly by aged people or for work 21:03:06 * andythenorth has it for fun 21:04:49 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 21:07:25 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/patches/company_pw_cmd01.diff 21:07:30 <dihedral> Rubidium, ^ :-) 21:07:48 <dihedral> console command for servers to set / reset a company password 21:10:01 <dihedral> heh - and i forgot all about the admin network needing an update :-D 21:10:10 <Rubidium> is all the method moving really necessary? 21:10:31 *** stAckedflow [~stAckedfl@99-33-250-50.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:40 <Rubidium> as it distracts in that diff from what really changes and what is just moved around 21:11:44 <planetmaker> dihedral: the method static const char *GenerateCompanyPasswordHash(const char *password) is basically deprived of all functionality, only returning the return value of another function. That's pointless 21:11:50 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:16 <SmatZ> +const char *NetworkGeneratePasswordHash (const 21:12:25 <SmatZ> remove space betwee h and ( 21:13:07 <dihedral> planetmaker, either that or i use _password_server_id and _password_game_seed all over the place 21:13:12 <dihedral> thank you SmatZ 21:13:26 <planetmaker> dihedral: you can use default values 21:13:52 <dihedral> which default values? 21:14:19 <planetmaker> _password_server_id and _password_game_seed 21:14:58 <planetmaker> or is one of those an actual DoCommand? 21:15:17 <dihedral> they both are variables available in the client code 21:15:25 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db1b2c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 21:15:36 <dihedral> i basically thought i'd leave the wrapper in place 21:15:43 <dihedral> but i can remove the function totally 21:16:14 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21690 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Fix: the top of a tall building standing on a hill at the top of the map could be cut off in a giant screenshot 21:16:28 <dihedral> lol? 21:16:41 <dihedral> who in their straight mind actually makes giant screenshots? :P 21:17:11 <Rubidium> I do 21:17:36 <__ln__> dihedral: why is it in the menu if straight people don't use it? 21:17:50 <Rubidium> http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/mine.png <- Q.E.D. 21:17:58 <Rubidium> and moi moi 21:18:03 <dihedral> hello :-) 21:18:41 * andythenorth starts to understand why road types is a big task 21:19:19 <andythenorth> the existing fusion of road + tram tracks seems to require quite some number of small edge cases to be handled nicely 21:20:16 <planetmaker> damn. 'x' doesn't work on screenshots... 21:22:05 <andythenorth> what might be better? 21:22:26 <andythenorth> first attempt the newgrf side, then progressively work through road code to work with it? 21:22:36 <andythenorth> or work through road code, then handle newgrf later? 21:23:06 <andythenorth> in either case, testing will be a pain in the ass 21:24:19 <dihedral> planetmaker, lol :-P 21:24:58 * DanMacK would say start with the road code 21:25:26 <DanMacK> Although you'd need the newgrf specs to test... 21:25:26 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd first start with the c code. 21:25:37 <DanMacK> yeah, it is a pain in the ass :P 21:26:23 <andythenorth> when I say 'newgrf' I mean the equivalent of newgrf_railtype.cpp and hangers on 21:26:45 <andythenorth> then making it appear in menus and such 21:27:18 <andythenorth> otherwise I lack test data 21:31:26 * andythenorth ponders 21:32:05 <andythenorth> level crossing with tram tracks requires a road piece to also be drawn 21:35:49 * andythenorth has many fun adventures in rail_cmd.cpp 21:37:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: level crossing srpites are separte 21:37:54 <planetmaker> at least I'd ask the authors for dedicated sprites. Just like railtypes 21:38:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21691 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Codechange: make sure GenerateCompanyPasswordHash() behaves deterministically when/if the value of NETWORK_SERVER_ID_LENGTH is changed 21:38:35 <andythenorth> I wonder if there are other reasons why must have ROADTYPE_ROAD on the crossing tile 21:39:28 <andythenorth> also more fun edge cases - trying to build a rail crossing on half tile road is handled very differently to building on half tile tramway 21:39:54 *** Adambean` [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:40:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21692 /trunk/src/ (console_cmds.cpp network/network_client.cpp): -Cleanup: remove unused extern declaration of HashCurrentCompanyPassword(), make it static 21:40:35 <andythenorth> but...rail_cmd.cpp and road_cmd.cpp are *way* easier to make sense of than industry_cmd.cpp 21:41:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r21693 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Codechange: no need to cast char[] to const uint8* 21:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: afair all these troubles are map-space related 21:42:02 <SmatZ> it's not possible to draw bars alone 21:42:14 <SmatZ> you have to draw the road so bars are drawn 21:42:16 <SmatZ> iirc 21:43:16 <andythenorth> is it simply because the dirt sprites under the tram track aren't available in a crossing-shaped version? 21:43:20 <andythenorth> or is it map space? 21:43:31 <andythenorth> I can't tell from the rail_cmd.cpp alone 21:44:58 <Yexo> a tram can turn around on a tile with 1 road-bit, but not on a tile that has 2 road-bits in the same direction 21:45:01 <andythenorth> tramtracks.pcx does not include the needed crossing sprites, but maybe that's a symptom, not the cause 21:45:20 <SmatZ> there are about 12 free bits for level crossing tile 21:45:30 <SmatZ> so map array shouldn't be the limitation 21:45:32 <Yexo> so extending a 1-bit tram track to 2-bits is probably unwanted, while for normal roads there are no side-effects 21:47:39 <andythenorth> that makes sense w.r.t to when crossings are constructed 21:47:48 <SmatZ> dihedral: please update your diff with changes commited to trunk recently :) 21:47:59 <dihedral> :-) 21:48:03 <dihedral> guess what i am doing :-P 21:48:05 <andythenorth> does it explain the 'tram tracks must build road at crossings' issue though 21:48:22 <Yexo> not really 21:49:17 <andythenorth> how do I search google for meaning for meaning of |= in C++? :P 21:49:27 <SmatZ> /* Always add road to the roadtypes (can't draw without it) */ 21:49:33 <SmatZ> sounds like drawing is the issue 21:49:35 <Yexo> something like "c++ operators" ? 21:50:00 <dihedral> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/21691/ <- would you not want a i % (NETWORK_SERVER_ID_LENGTH - 1)? 21:50:17 <dihedral> SmatZ, ^ 21:50:26 <SmatZ> dihedral: nope, 32, it would have no meaning for (NETWORK_SERVER_ID_LENGTH - 1) 21:50:35 <SmatZ> because i is always < (NETWORK_SERVER_ID_LENGTH - 1) 21:51:29 <dihedral> (_password_game_seed >> (i % 32)) <- i mean that 21:51:39 <SmatZ> I know 21:51:45 <dihedral> k :-P 21:51:48 <SmatZ> :P 21:52:04 <SmatZ> if 'i' would ever be >= 32, the code would be undefined 21:54:31 * andythenorth wonders if it's just that MakeRoadCrossing never got extended to handle tram tracks without road? 21:54:43 <andythenorth> or if it's map stuff 21:54:48 <andythenorth> road_map.h 21:55:27 <SmatZ> no, it's CmdBuildRoad 21:56:34 <Alberth> Cmd* functions do the actual operations in the game 21:57:22 <SmatZ> if you remove that | ROADTYPE_ROAD, there won't be road, yet it still will be drawn 22:01:07 <andythenorth> so drawing crossings is handled only by ROAD_TILE_CROSSING 22:01:09 <andythenorth> ? 22:01:23 <andythenorth> there's no duplicate in rail_cmd.cpp? (would seem odd) 22:01:51 <andythenorth> bah 22:01:53 <Yexo> there doesn't have to be a duplicate in rail_cmd.cpp because a crossing always has road 22:01:56 <SmatZ> crossing is MP_ROAD 22:02:36 <andythenorth> DrawTile_Road is what I meant instead of ROAD_TILE_CROSSING 22:02:40 <andythenorth> copy paste error :P 22:05:16 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:06:05 <dihedral> http://pub.dihedral.de/openttd/patches/company_pw_cmd02.diff 22:06:36 <SmatZ> +const char *NetworkGeneratePasswordHash ( 22:06:41 <dihedral> please comment again on the hagrrr 22:06:46 <SmatZ> you missed the declaration when removing that space :) 22:06:49 <dihedral> GenerateCompanyPasswordHash <- 22:07:26 <dihedral> is that function ok or should i remove it, and use _password_server_id and _password_game_seed in all it's places instead 22:08:54 <dihedral> i.e. use GenerateCompanyPasswordHash(const char*) or NetworkGenerateCompanyPasswordHash(const char*, const char*, uint32) 22:11:03 <SmatZ> how many times is it called? 22:11:44 <SmatZ> I (personally) would prefer to add _password_server_id and _password_game_seed, but it's just my personal opinion, so don't do it :) 22:11:54 <SmatZ> there are people who would prefer default argument value 22:12:04 <SmatZ> and they are probably in majority :) 22:13:01 <dihedral> it's called 4 times 22:17:15 <andythenorth> seems like DrawTile_Road could be rewritten to avoid drawing unnecessary road under tram tracks 22:17:25 <dihedral> ops... missing something ;-P 22:17:35 <andythenorth> DrawRoadBits handles it correctly for normal tiles 22:17:55 <andythenorth> probably not a bed time task though :P 22:18:01 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-72-25-106-182.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:18:17 <Alberth> so no bed for you in the next hours andy! :p 22:18:22 <andythenorth> bed now 22:18:27 <Alberth> good night :) 22:19:23 <dihedral> updated 22:19:25 <andythenorth> I'll guess I'll spend all of tomorrow rewriting it, then find there is some tiresome use of a bit somewhere that means it's impossible :D 22:19:29 <dihedral> good night :-) 22:19:33 <andythenorth> ho well good night 22:19:36 *** andythenorth [~andy@cpc9-aztw25-2-0-cust133.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:44:20 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8255.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:50:25 <SmatZ> nice, I managed to SIGSEGV dosbox :) 22:50:40 <SmatZ> now, what was broken in the code it executed... 22:51:21 <SmatZ> it doesn't like self-modifying code it seems 22:51:34 <Alberth> :( 22:51:43 <Alberth> that was quite common in those days 22:52:13 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:54:25 <dihedral> that patch also fixes a bug where the admin port was not sent an update when a password for a company changed 22:54:26 <dihedral> :-P 22:56:22 *** ar3kk [~ident@87-239-75-101.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Quit: âI-n-v-i-s-i-o-nâ 3.2 (July '10)] 22:56:30 <SmatZ> and of course, that crash is not reproducible... 22:56:55 <dihedral> hehe 23:00:54 <elmz_> argh, I have a lot of trains running along a track with uniformly spaced signals 23:01:04 <elmz_> all trains have the same top speed 23:01:17 <elmz_> there are no turns that slow trains down 23:01:47 <elmz_> but still trains catch up with the train in front 23:02:13 <planetmaker> you found the 'bug' that diagonals are shorter than horinzontals and verticals 23:03:07 <elmz_> and how do I avoid this problem? 23:03:38 <planetmaker> difficult :-) 23:03:59 <elmz_> -sigh- 23:04:35 <elmz_> I guess I don't then ^^ 23:07:20 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 23:08:41 <dihedral> planetmaker, i was going to suggest full and empty cargo wagons :-P 23:08:45 <SmatZ> place signals with higher density near/in diagonal tracks :) 23:08:59 *** DanM [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 23:09:13 <DanM> That was rude 23:09:37 <dihedral> ? 23:09:41 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:44 * DanM was disconnected 23:09:57 *** DanM is now known as DanMacK 23:11:05 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:43 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db1b2c9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:49 *** fanioz [~fanioz@125.167.89.190] has joined #openttd 23:22:30 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 23:27:04 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:27:35 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:30:01 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: yexo * r21694 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix: changing AI settings ingame was impossible when the difficulty level was other than custom 23:32:26 *** fanioz [~fanioz@125.167.89.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:34:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:06 *** prank [~foo@host143-22-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:21 <dihedral> good night