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00:04:48 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:12:58 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:28:56 <Terkhen> good night 00:37:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D01C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:44:33 <Wolf01> 'night 00:44:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host194-223-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:47:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D01C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:32 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:14 <xiong> I dunno. Somebody, a week ago, was talking with me about industrial service, particularly about the technique of delivering small quantities of FIRS engineering and farm supplies regularly. I started to think I should write it up for the openttd wiki but for that, I loaded a vanilla setup with no NewGRFs. I wrote a lot of words and made a lot of screenshots but I think this misses the purpose. 00:51:38 <xiong> I've been writing up a few other strategies I've been using and they all eventually seem to come back to FIRS. Would there be any welcome for a FIRS walkthrough? I wouldn't pretend to write the definitive guide but there's really very little documentation on it. And a FIRS game is significantly different from others. 00:55:58 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-221-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:56:24 *** Chruker [~no@87-104-39-161-dynamic-customer.profibernet.dk] has quit [] 00:56:48 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:25 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 01:09:47 <xiong> I'd enjoy a comment on the thought. 01:13:15 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF8602.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:28 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.5.246] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 01:26:00 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:29:18 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 02:01:00 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:80d1:bb20:a48f:ed31] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:11:12 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08fdcd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 02:14:12 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4d0cf6d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:03 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2796.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:20:30 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 02:55:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:58:33 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-67-115.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:21 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 03:20:48 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:32:45 <Yexo> xiong: you could try to enhance http://wiki.openttd.org/FIRS 03:36:03 <xiong> Yexo, That's a very, very basic intro. 03:36:36 <xiong> I had in mind to cover quite a few topics that all seem to revolve around FIRS, although they may apply to other layouts, of course. 03:37:06 <Yexo> yes, it's still basic, but maybe you could expand it 03:37:15 <xiong> There is the notion of regular delivery to primary industries; that's the last point touched on. 03:37:23 <Yexo> anyway, I shouldn't be commenting on IRC after too much alcohol on this hour 03:37:26 <Yexo> sleepy time :) 03:37:32 <xiong> Yexo, well, enjoy. 03:37:54 <xiong> Your drunken comments are worth more than no comments at all. 04:05:52 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has quit [Quit: Going!] 04:14:54 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has joined #openttd 04:26:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:48:24 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has joined #openttd 05:43:00 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-172-172.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76CEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77331.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:12:35 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@nagyondurva.hu] has joined #openttd 06:12:36 <z-MaTRiX> h 06:19:21 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:35:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:37:14 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #openttd 06:37:15 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [] 06:37:39 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #openttd 06:37:51 <planetmaker> moin 06:41:53 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:42:31 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:36 <z-MaTRiX> whatsup? 06:43:43 <z-MaTRiX> some new terraforming limits? 06:43:57 <z-MaTRiX> like 18/mo ? <; 06:45:15 <andythenorth> mornings 06:45:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you are an early bird today :o 06:45:25 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:45:36 <planetmaker> he, yeah :) 06:45:54 <planetmaker> People started to move away the snow from the footwalk - which awoke me 06:46:10 <planetmaker> But it's not a bad time to be awake :-) 06:46:18 <z-MaTRiX> wide awake 06:46:32 <andythenorth> snow :) 06:46:41 <andythenorth> UK snow has long vanished 06:46:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'm just reading through the fences... it's awesome 06:47:03 <andythenorth> you know that awesome actually means 'scary' ? 06:47:09 <andythenorth> in the strict meaning :P 06:47:17 <z-MaTRiX> Milk Inc. - Wide Awake (Extended Mix).mp3 06:47:20 <planetmaker> spot on ;-) 06:47:31 <planetmaker> it is scary 06:48:05 <planetmaker> when I first heart (and learnt) the word 'awesome' I thought it meant about the same as aweful and was totally confused 06:48:24 <planetmaker> gesture, posture and voice didn't fit what I thought was said :-P 06:48:35 <z-MaTRiX> aweful? 06:49:45 <z-MaTRiX> btw pulseaudio is buggy 06:50:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I haven't quite yet managed to "port" that to e.g. the furniture factory. So I'm not through yet, though 06:50:04 <z-MaTRiX> floods /var/log/messages till the hdd is full 06:50:36 <z-MaTRiX> ahaha 06:50:51 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:53 <z-MaTRiX> firefox brought up a page 06:50:56 <z-MaTRiX> Well, this is embarrassing. 06:51:03 <z-MaTRiX> Firefox is having trouble recovering your windows and tabs. This is usually caused by a recently opened web page. 06:51:49 <planetmaker> and it'll need some parameter adjustment, if you want fences available as parameter 06:53:16 <planetmaker> anyway... back in a bit. Bakery opens and I want fresh rolls :-) 06:54:21 <z-MaTRiX> hmmm 06:54:25 <z-MaTRiX> not bad idea 06:54:30 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:00:06 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:10:37 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1024DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:11:15 <xiong> z-MaTRiX, Google Chrome. Really. I wasn't sure at first and for some time afterward. Part of my issue was that the vanilla Chrome, right out of the box, is so stripped-down I thought it was missing something. 07:12:06 <xiong> Well, it is: It's missing almost everything that can be missing, so it's rock-solid. Then I went and started to add on the extensions to make it do what I wanted. Now, I'm extremely happy. 07:13:34 <xiong> I have never had a Chrome crash or hang seriously. I tend to open dozens of windows and hundreds of tabs and, yes, eventually I run out of memory and have to wait for swap. But that's my fault and it was only much worse with FF. 07:13:38 <z-MaTRiX> ;/ 07:13:43 <z-MaTRiX> chrome filled my logs? 07:14:11 <z-MaTRiX> ah no it wasnt even ruunning 07:14:23 <z-MaTRiX> btw chrome does not support flash yet 07:14:27 <xiong> z-MaTRiX, Perhaps I have a log file somewhere, growing monstrously. I don't know. I haven't had that issue come up; my disk is not full. 07:14:28 <z-MaTRiX> on linux 07:14:57 <z-MaTRiX> but i like t he chrome idea 07:15:04 <xiong> There's a Flash extension or three, I suppose. I detest Flash, personally but if you want it, I think you can have it. 07:15:23 <z-MaTRiX> i have installed flash plugin 07:15:23 <xiong> Chrome doesn't support very much all by itself, is what I was saying. 07:15:24 <z-MaTRiX> ;/ 07:15:35 <z-MaTRiX> and "working" in firefox 07:16:41 <xiong> Just a thought. 07:16:51 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B10257C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:17:29 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:18:10 <z-MaTRiX> wonder why i got / root fs full message when /var is on a 2GB seperate fs 07:18:34 <z-MaTRiX> (RHEL 6) 07:18:51 <z-MaTRiX> 64 bit 07:19:47 <z-MaTRiX> [root@matrix log]# ln -s /dev/null ./messages 07:19:56 <z-MaTRiX> now i did temporarily 07:23:26 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm84.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 07:38:17 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:43:49 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:36 *** Markavian [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:33 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:52:36 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:58 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:59:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:05:36 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:28 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:50 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:20:59 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:20 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:33:19 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:47:52 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-67-115.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:56:59 * andythenorth ponders some kind of 'newgrf_developer_tools = 2' mode 08:57:10 <andythenorth> allows building anything whether paused or not 08:57:22 <andythenorth> and provides bn cash immediately 08:57:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-148.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:58:26 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:00:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: developer=1 ;-) 09:00:17 <planetmaker> and scenario editor 09:00:45 <planetmaker> and you set your pause build mode to 'allow all' already? 09:01:32 <andythenorth> I often lose my settings for some reason 09:01:40 <planetmaker> uh? 09:01:52 <planetmaker> where's your openttd.cfg? 09:01:54 <andythenorth> probably because I don't save a game before I quit 09:02:04 <andythenorth> I have to save a game to get config to write changes 09:02:18 <planetmaker> uhm... no? 09:02:28 <planetmaker> but you must not kill OpenTTD 09:02:33 <andythenorth> yeah, I do that a lot 09:02:35 <andythenorth> make run 09:02:37 <planetmaker> and savegame changes never get written to the config file 09:02:44 <andythenorth> then ctrl-c 09:02:52 <planetmaker> well, that'll loose them, yes 09:03:30 <planetmaker> only config changes made from the main menu will - when OpenTTD is terminated normally - be written to the cfg 09:04:05 <andythenorth> that's the issue then 09:08:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C494.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:10:52 <Terkhen> good morning 09:12:28 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:14:23 <andythenorth> hi Terkhen 09:15:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.171.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:20:25 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2796.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-148.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:23:37 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 09:32:00 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:35:14 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen 09:45:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB02.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:46:10 *** lugo- [~lugo@89.238.177.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:54 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@nagyondurva.hu] has quit [Quit: bb] 09:51:56 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2001:470:9df4:dead::24] has joined #openttd 09:51:58 <z-MaTRiX> reloaded 09:53:02 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2001:470:9df4:dead::24] has quit [] 09:58:19 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-148.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:00:41 *** lugo [~lugo@89.238.177.145] has joined #openttd 10:04:11 *** MissionCritical [~Pumpkin@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:05:56 <heffer> hey guys. i just received a bugreport in our redhat bugzilla. but i have no idea what's really going on there. any ideas? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=677068 10:09:27 *** MissionCritical is now known as Guest1242 10:09:55 <heffer> i can reproduce the bug here 10:10:37 *** Guest1242 [~Pumpkin@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:40 *** MissionCritical [~Pumpkin@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:13:26 <heffer> seems to be a bug when using the ChooChoo AI 10:14:19 <planetmaker> did you try with current trunk? 10:14:35 <planetmaker> there was somewhat recentlish a fix related to the squirrel implementation / API 10:15:00 <heffer> i'll try it 10:15:45 <heffer> compiling from a nightly should be enough? 10:15:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-148.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:15:55 <planetmaker> yeah 10:15:57 *** zydeco [~zydeco@59.Red-88-22-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 10:20:59 * andythenorth wonders what it takes to fix ship smoke? 10:21:12 <andythenorth> can it be done by adding a cb? 10:22:44 <andythenorth> ho, we discussed this already :) http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4263 10:24:44 <andythenorth> the ideas got derailed by a cross MB 10:24:46 <andythenorth> :( 10:27:44 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:34:26 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF98A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:37:42 <Rubidium> heffer: reproduce in what kind of timeframe? A few seconds? Several hours? 10:38:17 <heffer> Rubidium: seconds after buying out the company "ChooChoo" which is the yellow one (second on the list) 10:38:22 <heffer> but only with ChooChoo AI enabled 10:38:34 <heffer> i'll try a nightly right now 10:38:44 <Rubidium> oh, missed that action 10:39:29 <xiong> Hey, yeh, I had crashing AI when buying out; ChooChoo involved. 10:39:38 <heffer> okay the nightly seems to survive the buying out 10:39:57 <xiong> Time to upgrade, eh? 10:40:44 <heffer> :D 10:43:14 *** MissionCritical [~Pumpkin@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:43:14 <heffer> i'll give the guy an RPM of the latest nightly and ask him to play with it for a while 10:44:19 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-172-172.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [] 10:45:50 * Rubidium doesn't really have a clue what change would fix that issue though 10:45:57 *** TGYoshi [4da7286d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:50:37 <TGYoshi> Everyone idle? x] 10:52:21 <andythenorth> wrong 10:52:24 <andythenorth> everyone coding :D 10:52:30 * andythenorth has no idea if that's true 10:52:33 <TGYoshi> Why coding? xD 10:52:48 <TGYoshi> Uhh 10:52:58 <TGYoshi> Do you've got some tips to start well in multiplayer games? 10:53:05 <TGYoshi> As I usually fail fast :P 10:53:14 <planetmaker> same tips as for SP 10:53:22 <TGYoshi> And those tips are? 10:53:25 <planetmaker> build a moderately long, profitable route 10:53:29 <TGYoshi> Hitting the fast forward button? 10:53:34 <andythenorth> important: don't forget you can't pause 10:53:41 <andythenorth> this is a problem when there is about to be a crash 10:53:47 <andythenorth> I always get rinsed in MP when I try 10:54:04 <planetmaker> :-) 10:54:14 <TGYoshi> I'm a kinda noob in ttd :D 10:54:21 <TGYoshi> Sooo explain ^^ 10:54:53 <TGYoshi> By the way.. the 'auto-replace old vehicles' function isn't really liking me I think :\ 10:57:34 <planetmaker> did you read the wiki's tutorial? 10:57:59 <TGYoshi> About the one-line route from coal to power thing? 10:58:00 <TGYoshi> X] 10:58:10 <planetmaker> build for a start a route as long as possible as you can afford (mind the price for one or two trains with wagons) 10:58:14 <planetmaker> yes 10:58:19 <planetmaker> do that, and you're done 10:58:47 <TGYoshi> Why as long as possible? 10:58:50 <TGYoshi> Shorter is better? 11:01:20 <planetmaker> two short routes usually pay less than one long route of the same length 11:01:36 <planetmaker> except when vehicles are very slow or distances VERY large. Usually 11:01:55 <planetmaker> with route length I mean the distance between station signs. Not the actual route length 11:02:18 <TGYoshi> Why that? 11:02:24 <TGYoshi> I just go to industry list 11:02:27 <TGYoshi> sort on producity 11:02:35 <TGYoshi> Then get the highest coal thing 11:02:44 <planetmaker> well. Do what you like to do. You got my answer 11:02:45 <TGYoshi> Find a power thingy near 11:02:53 <TGYoshi> lol :P 11:03:10 <TGYoshi> I still don't get why people build long railways first O_O 11:03:26 <planetmaker> [12:01] <planetmaker> two short routes usually pay less than one long route of the same length 11:03:44 <TGYoshi> yea, explain that please? 11:04:20 <planetmaker> I could also try to explain "what is green". 11:04:27 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:04:44 <TGYoshi> I can explain the inversed of what you explained 11:05:01 <TGYoshi> Short distance is fast traveling, fast delivering, cheap ;D 11:05:11 <TGYoshi> Long is long dilivering, higher route costs 11:05:19 <TGYoshi> Why is that positive 11:05:38 <planetmaker> you get paid for transport. You don't buy and sell the cargo 11:05:43 <xiong> Dunno, maybe it's because I start in 1850. I find the easiest, most profitable start to be to connect two towns with pax service, two towns so close together that the stations almost touch. 11:05:58 <TGYoshi> Really? O_o 11:06:01 <andythenorth> I always build short routes first 11:06:04 <planetmaker> a taxi also makes more earnings, if you drive from paris to berlin. and not berlin central to berlin central+1 11:06:12 <TGYoshi> That's true indeed 11:06:16 <andythenorth> but you get cashflow faster with a short route 11:06:28 <TGYoshi> I thought I got paid by dilivering an amount of goods 11:06:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not really 11:06:31 <andythenorth> I haven't tested the strategy one against the other 11:06:32 <xiong> But it takes more time to go further. The most profitable taxicab fare is the shortest. 11:06:57 <TGYoshi> So creating alot of circles before the next station gives more money ^^ 11:06:58 <andythenorth> planetmaker: has it been tested in mp? 11:06:59 <planetmaker> the only difference is the one month longer build time and one month longer travel time. Or so. But the money is MUCH higher 11:07:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: of course ;-) 11:07:06 <andythenorth> flat map, same vehicles? 11:07:07 <andythenorth> he 11:07:08 <xiong> In the case of pax/mail, time is important anyway. 11:07:21 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:29 <TGYoshi> Ok, didn't know that, thanks :P 11:07:30 <planetmaker> how else would we stomp a competitive MP server so that all others surrender? ;-) 11:07:40 <planetmaker> was quite fun back then :-P 11:07:46 <TGYoshi> Now I get why people start with long roads D= 11:07:54 <TGYoshi> Ok last question I think 11:08:02 * andythenorth wants to argue the case about short routes 11:08:03 <TGYoshi> What are one-way railroad signals or so? 11:08:11 <TGYoshi> I want to try a system with 2 lanes ^^ 11:08:15 <andythenorth> but arguing with empirical evidence is quite often dumb :P 11:08:33 <planetmaker> andythenorth: just look at the payment graph and it becomes quite evident that you have to ship medium to long routes for max. profit 11:08:44 <xiong> Well, planetmaker should know. It's probably just my weird play style. But last game, I had a pax route from one side to the other of the map, about 500 tiles; with an optional stop in-between. I found that express trains were no more profitable than those that made the intermediate stop. 11:09:12 <planetmaker> and mind that unloading time counts, too, thus that relative dead time is longer 11:09:35 <TGYoshi> Cool :P 11:09:36 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0dbb7b.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:09:43 <TGYoshi> Changes the game goal for me totally :P 11:09:51 <xiong> This game, I have the nearly-touching stations and they make almost as much money, per year, as did the 250-tile haul. 11:10:31 <TGYoshi> The fact is that you can't fast forward in MP 11:10:36 <TGYoshi> So loading times are soooooooooo slow 11:10:51 <TGYoshi> then I can understand that fast routes are working way better 11:11:01 <TGYoshi> As traveling then doesn't matter 11:11:31 <xiong> Actually, now that I think of it, the cases aren't comparable, and I think the advantage is to the touching stations. Because in the long haul route, I MU'd two engines and ran longer trains. So ostensibly, the MU'd, double-length trains should have been twice as profitable, all other things equal. No? 11:11:54 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:12:49 <xiong> TGYoshi, Sorry; did you answer your question about one-way signals? 11:14:52 <TGYoshi> xiong: I can hardly answer my own question 11:15:02 <TGYoshi> The wiki tells me there is one :P 11:15:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0dbb7b.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:15:09 <TGYoshi> I just don't see it O_O 11:15:13 <xiong> Well, it seemed to have got skipped over. 11:15:28 <xiong> Signals are not simple. You read the wiki page; that's good. 11:15:49 <TGYoshi> complicated stuff is good as long they can be used simple too :D 11:16:03 <xiong> You see six different types of signal. The first and most important idea is that they fall into two separate categories, block and path. 11:16:23 <xiong> The first 4 are block, the last 2 are path. 11:16:41 <xiong> By "one-way", do you mean one-way path signals? 11:16:57 <TGYoshi> No idea :P 11:17:04 <TGYoshi> What's the difference? 11:17:06 <xiong> Erm. 11:17:45 <xiong> Well, I dunno if you want me to explain the whole thing, blow by blow. I can give you a very easy strat for signalling your layout, if you like. It may not be optimal but it will work pretty well. 11:18:08 <xiong> I'm happy to explain almost anything in great detail but often, I lose my audience. ;) 11:18:25 <TGYoshi> That's fine, just don't go too complicated :P 11:18:38 <TGYoshi> I'm mainly using the default selected sign thingy 11:18:48 <TGYoshi> that one prevents crashing :P 11:19:00 <TGYoshi> But now I want to have 2 lanes, both going one way 11:19:05 <xiong> Well, you can choose which signal is the default; go to Advanced Settings. 11:19:05 <TGYoshi> Like roads 11:19:20 <TGYoshi> Can I? :P 11:19:59 *** MissionCritical [~MissionCr@124-168-71-85.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:14 <TGYoshi> yes? 11:20:18 <xiong> I suggest you choose standard path signals. Also, set your signal spacing to 2. Then, simply signal every piece of track you have that way. The signals should face *against* the flow of traffic, so that the engineer in the cab of the engine can see them. 11:20:56 <xiong> It's easier to have traffic going only one way on each section of track, than to set up bidirectional track. 11:21:33 <xiong> You have probably been using normal block signals, which will allow bidirectional travel but, if used alone, may screw you up quickly. 11:21:51 <TGYoshi> Standart thing seems to be 'Route signals' 11:21:58 <xiong> Use standard path signals, which are the 5th is the GUI. 11:22:06 <TGYoshi> (no idea if I translate right) 11:22:29 <TGYoshi> yea, that one is standart 11:23:25 <xiong> Well, words are tricky and the jargon seems not to be entirely consistent. From left to right in the signal GUI, I call them: "normal block", "entry", "exit", "combo", "standard path", and "one-way path". 11:23:46 *** perk11 [~perk11@81.17.157.195] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:23:49 <xiong> Each one works differently from the others. 11:24:47 <xiong> If you use standard path signals everywhere, you will probably get what you want. If you find trains going the wrong way, or hung up, stalled, waiting to go the wrong way, then you may need to change just one signal to a one-way path. 11:25:09 <TGYoshi> I do use them right now :P 11:25:25 <xiong> I like to put a one-way path signal right in front of any depot. That's usually enough. 11:25:33 <TGYoshi> Just need to force them going into one direction, especially at depots 11:25:49 <xiong> Yes. Exactly correct. 11:26:47 <xiong> Note that trains will avoid passing even a standard path signal from the back; so you don't usually need to do this. But sometimes, a train thinks it's better to go the wrong way than to wait to go the right way. 11:27:42 <TGYoshi> They especially like to think to go to the other way at depots :P 11:27:49 <TGYoshi> Causing jams 11:27:52 <xiong> That's really all there is to it, sort of. I spent a lot of time with complicated signaling schemes before I just started to throw down standard path every 2 tiles. 11:28:27 <xiong> Sure, trains tend to block what's behind them that way. But then, they do anyway. 11:28:46 <TGYoshi> indeed 11:29:14 <TGYoshi> So the 6th of the gui is the one-way thing 11:29:38 <TGYoshi> and I need to turn the lights of the signal so the train can see them - then they CAN pass? 11:29:47 <xiong> Hm. While we're on the topic, sort of: I've also abandoned complex junctions. I just run the tracks criss-cross and connect them with 1-tile diagonal bits. It's crude but effective and works fine with path signals. 11:29:57 <xiong> Correct on both counts. 11:30:31 <TGYoshi> Cool 11:30:35 <TGYoshi> the train is stuck now xD 11:30:50 <TGYoshi> oh wait 11:30:51 <xiong> Oh, one point about that: When you run a main line, leave a one-tile gap between tracks. 11:30:52 <TGYoshi> got the problem 11:30:56 <TGYoshi> need to inverse a sign :P 11:30:58 <xiong> Don't run them adjacent. 11:31:04 <TGYoshi> why not? 11:31:31 <xiong> Um, the payoff is large but it comes in small pieces, here and there. You'll be glad you did. 11:31:47 <xiong> Don't be tempted to save a tile. 11:32:08 <TGYoshi> :P 11:32:22 <TGYoshi> There is pretty less you can put into there? 11:32:33 <TGYoshi> Uppering the ground isn't possible or so 11:32:43 <xiong> When you look on wiki, you will see many styles of junction, almost all of which have adjacent mains. I don't use these anymore. 11:32:58 <xiong> You don't put anything into the gap; you leave it blank. 11:33:15 <xiong> Erm, I'll show you. 11:33:57 <TGYoshi> mr train is running smoothly now :D 11:35:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 11:35:42 <xiong> http://i.imgur.com/CSIab.png 11:36:00 <TGYoshi> oh like that O-O 11:36:14 <TGYoshi> Nice idea of inversing a train too :P 11:36:19 <TGYoshi> without slowing down 11:36:21 <xiong> You see the cheap junction near the center. The main line runs from NE to SW. There's a station to the SE and another, out of sight, to the NW. 11:37:00 <xiong> The cheap junction works because of the one-tile gap. The little reversing section on the way to the NW station needs the gap to work. 11:37:11 <xiong> Also, the gap helps when building stations. 11:37:23 <TGYoshi> aha 11:37:36 <xiong> You want to disable "90 degree" turns. They're bad. 11:37:56 <TGYoshi> The gap also seems useful at the SW side 11:38:00 <xiong> So, the little reversing bit you see there is the tightest possible. 11:38:06 <TGYoshi> That junction has to have one :P 11:38:26 <xiong> It is indeed. When you tunnel under one track to bring the other to the same side, the gap helps. 11:39:11 <james_o-> My OpenTTD 1.1.0-beta5 client won't connect to my server of the same version; the server gives a version string of r1 11:39:15 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:39:22 <xiong> Note that the cheap junction, because of the gap, also allows any approaching train to reverse down the main. That little reversing bit to the NW is not really needed; I put it there because I *expect* a lot of reversing there and want to avoid fouling the main. 11:40:06 <TGYoshi> ahh nice :P 11:40:06 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 11:40:33 <TGYoshi> So if a train wants to reverse it does to earlyer, not messing up the junction 11:40:52 <planetmaker> then you didn't compile 1.1.0-beta5 as the server 11:41:32 <xiong> Check this out, TGYoshi: http://i.imgur.com/6y95E.png 11:42:08 <xiong> The main line runs past town to yet another station to the NE. In a sense it's not really the main, it's just a spur. 11:42:09 <james_o-> I downloaded 1.1.0-beta5 from the website 11:42:24 <james_o-> Running configure; make again, that might help 11:42:43 <xiong> Note how I make a juncton there with a short tunnel. Quick and easy; it depends on the gap. 11:43:03 <TGYoshi> Pfff, what gaps can do :] 11:43:07 <xiong> So does my station approach, for that matter. 11:43:17 *** yorick [yorick@2002:4443:4c63::16] has joined #openttd 11:43:25 <TGYoshi> Isn't it possible too to just split the lines a bit once it's needed? 11:43:31 <TGYoshi> or does that ruin the overseight? 11:44:19 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 11:44:45 <xiong> Ruins the eyesight, at least for my old eyes. 11:45:46 <TGYoshi> :P 11:45:48 <xiong> Also, I have a more or less grand scheme. You see the roads? Those are county roads; I survey them at game start, as soon as I have enough cash to build them. I don't drive on them; I put them down every 32 tiles, each way. 11:45:53 <planetmaker> uhm... you either downloaded it, or you downloaded the source... the binary versions show to my knowledge the proper version strings. 11:46:07 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:46:26 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.5.246] has joined #openttd 11:46:26 <TGYoshi> And inside them putting stuff? 11:46:31 <xiong> I put small signs at each crossroads, more or less; and I put *other* signs at the halfway points, 16 tiles in, and run the mains around these. 11:46:34 <TGYoshi> Seperating the different countries 11:47:01 <xiong> Counties or townships. I set station spread to 32 and only ever have one station per county. 11:47:07 <TGYoshi> pfff, you're going complicated in a game :P 11:47:44 <james_o-> planetmaker: I remember there being a server version variable somewhere in the source, perhaps I need to change that? 11:48:13 <xiong> No, it makes planning easier. Each county may or may not have a mainline running through it; may or may not have a station; may or may not have a junction; may or may not have a main line depoting facility. No hard choices. 11:48:40 <TGYoshi> Just to make your view clear? :P 11:48:56 <xiong> I build all the main lines, all the junctions, all the stations, all the main line depoting, all the same, as much as I can. 11:49:26 <TGYoshi> aha, ok :D 11:49:35 <TGYoshi> Thanks for those explainations, tips and blabla :P 11:49:41 <xiong> So I don't have to figure too much out on a case-by-case basis. Instead of assembling one-tile blocks in my head, I'm assembling 32x32 tile blocks. 11:49:45 <TGYoshi> let's see how my new file will end :D 11:49:53 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:50:00 *** Chrill [~Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 11:50:18 <TGYoshi> by the way, you have stations longer then 7? 11:50:41 <planetmaker> the question rather remains: what and how did you compile OpenTTD 11:50:43 <andythenorth> @seen DanMacK 11:50:43 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 13 hours, 17 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Later all :D 11:50:54 <andythenorth> "DanMack, won't you come back?" 11:51:11 <xiong> Most of my stations are of one type, TGYoshi; "Thin B". There are four platforms, 12 tiles long each. 11:51:16 <planetmaker> you downloaded the source tar ball? 11:51:19 <james_o-> Yes 11:51:23 *** Razmir [~razmir@220.18.broadband3.iol.cz] has left #openttd [] 11:51:59 <xiong> Long trains are better, at least for freight, since it's not so important how long it takes to load. Long trains break down less frequently than two short trains. 11:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: replace the buttons on the station build menu for 5,6,7 with 6,8,12 [something non-linear-ish] 11:52:31 <TGYoshi> 12 tiles long stations is possible? 11:52:45 <xiong> As soon as I get decent engines and cars, I take most trains to about 11 tiles. 11:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: use drag&drop for longer stations 11:52:54 <xiong> Sure; why not? 11:52:55 <james_o-> I applied a patch that allows reverting to previous autosaves, but I don't see how it could have changed the version string 11:53:04 <TGYoshi> Drag and drop? x] 11:53:11 <TGYoshi> Can you d&d stations? 11:53:19 <xiong> 12 isn't even really that long. 11:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: there's a huge button "drag&drop" in the window :p 11:53:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but default max. train length is 7 11:53:41 <xiong> Dunno about drag and drop. I build up my platforms pretty carefully. 11:53:44 <TGYoshi> Cool, never saw that xD 11:53:50 <planetmaker> it'd be somewhat pointless to offer larger stations by default 11:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: who made that? ;) 11:54:16 <xiong> Yah, there's an Advanced Setting for that: Allow long trains. 11:54:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the problem is, most commonly i want to make 8 tile stations 11:54:43 <TGYoshi> I did saw that setting ^^ 11:54:47 <planetmaker> build 2 x length 4 11:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that ruins your rating 11:55:11 <xiong> I think the absolute *minimum* length for a platform is 6. I don't see the point of anything shorter, except in weird or temp situations. 11:55:14 <planetmaker> uhm... no? 11:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so you end up being not able to build the second half 11:55:46 <planetmaker> the resulting rating reduction *should* be the same 11:55:59 <planetmaker> but you could use drag&drop like you suggested yourself 11:56:01 <xiong> I wish ISRS, and the station GUI, would give me longer stations. I build them up a few at a time. 11:56:07 <planetmaker> then it's one build action 11:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. but imagine you have permission to destroy 3 tree tiles 11:56:15 <xiong> I like some variety in stations. 11:56:25 <planetmaker> that's out of my imagination :-P 11:56:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: building an 8 tile station reduces your rating below the allowed, so you cannot build any more afterwards, but it allows you to put the whole station 11:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: building two 4 tile station reduces your rating below the allowed, so you cannot build any more after the first one, so you cannot place the second one 11:57:03 <james_o-> planetmaker: make clean; ./configure; make didn't help, I'll try downloading a clean version 11:57:04 <planetmaker> quite silly ;-) - maybe it's a bug to fail station building then in any case? 11:57:29 <planetmaker> s/to/and/ 11:57:30 <TGYoshi> O.O 11:57:38 <TGYoshi> Cool I've got platforms of 4 :P 11:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> after building a big station with drag&drop, you usually have not permisson to rebuild it (to build eyecandy tiles) 11:58:33 <xiong> TGYoshi, That may seem like a lot now but you can only haul about 6 regular-size cars onto such a platform, maybe only 5, not counting engine and caboose. 11:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> at least, if this is the first station in the town, and you did some terraforming to place it 11:58:50 <planetmaker> james_o-: I don't know what you did, but for me the clean tar ball compiles just fine 11:59:15 <xiong> I also started my early games with many short platforms. I find it works much better to have just 4 fairly long ones. 11:59:57 <TGYoshi> lol 12:00:29 <TGYoshi> I just keep the 4/5-sized ones for now, I see later if I can do bigger :P 12:01:05 <xiong> TGYoshi, Here's a better view of the concept: http://i.imgur.com/IZpbK.png 12:01:29 <TGYoshi> Wwoooooohhhwwwww 12:01:43 <TGYoshi> looks nice too :P 12:02:13 <xiong> You'd be surprised just how many trains that can handle. But part of the point is that it needn't handle very many, since each is so long. 12:02:19 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has joined #openttd 12:02:23 <TGYoshi> :P 12:02:35 <TGYoshi> Does it get clogged up? 12:03:04 <xiong> Ah, that's the beauty part. If you run too many trains into such a station, the trains back up in the depots, not onto the main. 12:04:11 <xiong> The depots are not the bottleneck; the number of platforms is. Generally, a train will break down in the exit interlocking and stall other trains trying to depart. Then, there will be no free platforms, so trains will stay in depot. 12:04:25 <xiong> This makes use of the fact that each depot has a built-in super-signal. 12:04:55 <TGYoshi> Using depots for that purpose :P 12:05:12 <xiong> Note that there are no signals between the depots and the platforms. Also, the one-way path signal that controls entry to the depot interlocking is only one tile away from any depot. 12:06:06 <xiong> It is common, under heavy traffic, to have 3 trains at one time in the depot interlocking -- 1 entering depot and 2 exiting, or 2 and 1. 12:07:00 <TGYoshi> I need to try that setup soon :P 12:07:03 <TGYoshi> Want to see it running 12:07:04 <xiong> Usually 1 and 2 but sometimes you will see the tail end of a train just getting into one depot as another train hits the one-way. 12:08:37 <xiong> The key is the depot super-signal. According to planetmaker, this really is a super-signal; it looks around to see what kind of signal it should be. So, it can act as either a combo block or a path signal, your choice. 12:09:07 <xiong> Don't put both types of signal near a depot unless you want to spend a long time trying to figure out what the depot is thinking. 12:09:18 <TGYoshi> lol 12:09:46 <TGYoshi> Those setups are a little too complicated for me, yet :] 12:09:55 <xiong> Sure? 12:10:00 <TGYoshi> Nope 12:10:02 <TGYoshi> :P 12:10:08 <TGYoshi> Just need to try it first 12:10:14 <xiong> I mean, there it is, right in front of your eyeballs. Try it! 12:10:18 <TGYoshi> Then I can see what is really does 12:10:32 <TGYoshi> ^^, I just restarted xD 12:10:50 <xiong> Heh, I hit on this design because other stations were too hard for me to build. 12:11:01 <TGYoshi> lol 12:11:33 <TGYoshi> The signal at the most NW side is an one-way thing right? 12:11:39 <xiong> If you haven't loaded ISRS, then probably it looks complicated because of all the eye candy. I can show you the same thing without. 12:11:51 <xiong> TGYoshi, Correct. 12:12:01 <TGYoshi> ISRS? 12:12:24 <TGYoshi> Wow, you've got that stations just for a forest? 12:13:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-157-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:13:26 <xiong> http://i.imgur.com/j93UB.png 12:13:38 <xiong> That's a vanilla game, no NewGRFs at all. 12:13:50 <TGYoshi> O_O 12:14:01 <TGYoshi> That's how mine's going to look like :P 12:14:02 <xiong> The forest is important in FIRS. All the earlier shots were from a FIRS game. 12:14:24 <TGYoshi> 20 wagons O_O 12:14:49 <TGYoshi> Ok I'll try it out now :P 12:15:04 <TGYoshi> Soooo, the depots will turn the trains around? 12:15:06 <xiong> You sound kinda new so I don't want to push; go at your own pace, I did. But I tell you, once I loaded FIRS, ISRS, and a few other key add-ons, I never wanted to go back. 12:15:34 <TGYoshi> never heard of that stuff soo :P 12:16:10 <xiong> Well, you can't exit the back of a depot. All depots reverse. The only question is what track you put in front of one. 12:16:16 <TGYoshi> I've just got the problem that trains aren't replacing themselves x] 12:16:32 <TGYoshi> :P 12:16:39 <TGYoshi> Your station looks clever O_O 12:16:40 <xiong> Note that some players consider deliberately reversing the direction of a train using a depot to be a cheap trick. 12:16:56 <xiong> You may not have enough cash. 12:17:08 <TGYoshi> Got 7,5 mil now :P 12:17:19 <xiong> Or, your trains may not yet be old enough. Or you may have the relevant setting off. 12:17:31 <TGYoshi> Settings, eh? 12:18:14 <xiong> TGYoshi, This game has a ridiculous number of settings. That's before you start loading NewGRF add-ons, some of which also have "parameter" settings. 12:18:21 <james_o-> planetmaker: I ran diff on the source files of the clean version and my patched version, for some reason rev.cpp had been changed in my version 12:18:34 <planetmaker> lool 12:18:52 <xiong> By ridiculous, I mean that you want to spend hours reading over the setting possibilities. A small change makes for a completely different style of game. 12:19:12 <xiong> You will come back to Advanced Settings over and over in the first few weeks. 12:19:33 <xiong> If you play on a server with unfamiliar settings, you may be lost. 12:19:42 <xiong> -- ask for help. 12:19:56 <TGYoshi> pff 12:19:58 <TGYoshi> :P 12:20:12 <TGYoshi> Little question 12:20:24 <TGYoshi> You built two stations at your last pic right? 12:20:29 <TGYoshi> With one line in the middle 12:20:50 <xiong> There are Game Options, Difficulty Options, Advanced Settings, the aforementioned NewGRFs, and other settings that can only be changed in the ingame console or by editing your openttd.cfg. 12:21:18 <TGYoshi> that a game can be that complicated :p 12:21:24 <xiong> Ahem ahem. I lied. I left *room* for another station. 12:21:56 <TGYoshi> You mean by that? 12:22:06 <TGYoshi> Just two stations near eachother? 12:22:07 <andythenorth> safe to say, the number of settings is seen as a problem, not a feature 12:22:09 <xiong> You mean this one? http://i.imgur.com/6y95E.png 12:22:23 <TGYoshi> that one is fine too :P 12:22:33 <TGYoshi> Yea, why two stations? 12:22:33 <xiong> There's a stockyard in the next county to the NE; I'll build a station there. 12:22:44 <xiong> Oh, wait, I see. 12:22:51 <TGYoshi> I don't 12:23:09 <xiong> Look at the vanilla version, it'll be more familiar: http://i.imgur.com/j93UB.png 12:23:17 <TGYoshi> indeed 12:23:24 <TGYoshi> Why two stations? 12:23:35 <TGYoshi> There is one line in the middle seperating them 12:23:41 <xiong> See the mini-station near the factory, with the sign "Thin B Main"? That's the station. 12:23:47 <TGYoshi> yes 12:23:56 <planetmaker> well, mostly they need a way to manage them to configure them quickly for different purposes 12:23:57 <xiong> There's only one rail station in that shot. 12:24:02 <TGYoshi> indeed 12:24:06 <planetmaker> there are only few which really can go 12:24:07 <TGYoshi> Huh, the others got no name? 12:24:18 <xiong> Right. They are all elements of the same station. 12:24:32 <TGYoshi> And they can gather stuff from both the factory and the mine? 12:24:45 * planetmaker currently moves some settings 12:24:47 <xiong> I built the little, isolated one-tile station just to hold the sign up, out of the way; and to make sure the station's catchment would include the factory. 12:24:57 <xiong> -- and the mine, too. 12:24:58 <TGYoshi> Cool :P 12:25:06 <TGYoshi> How did you made those elements ? :P 12:25:32 <xiong> If you have your settings chosen correctly, it's as easy as Ctrl-clicking when you build a station element. You get a dialog. 12:25:45 <xiong> I choose quite a few settings for this. ;) 12:26:17 <TGYoshi> Ctrl clicking does something? :P 12:26:32 <TGYoshi> -- sorry, I'm eating something now, 5 minutes 12:26:33 <TGYoshi> brb 12:27:38 <xiong> If you have allowed disjoint stations, etc., then you get a dialog asking if you want to build a new station or join an existing one. All the elements must lie within the "station spread", which is another setting. I advise you to ignore the dire warning, which appears to be appropriate for Commodore64. 12:28:21 <xiong> Maybe I really should write up that walkthrough. 12:30:05 <TGYoshi> back :P 12:30:31 <TGYoshi> I got almost all default settings xd 12:31:07 <xiong> Experiment. 12:31:55 <xiong> I have changed nearly every setting there is in Advanced Settings; and changed most of them back, or again. 12:32:37 <xiong> I can't count how many wrong theories I have had in the course of learning this game. I don't know how many wrong ones I still have. 12:33:00 <TGYoshi> :P 12:33:10 <TGYoshi> I don't know what all settings do D= 12:33:12 <TGYoshi> By the way 12:33:21 <xiong> Some of these are reinforced by the available docs, particularly the wiki. It's helpful to a point, confusing by turns, and occasionally just plain wrong. 12:33:24 <TGYoshi> is it possible to turn off that industies 'die'? 12:33:48 <xiong> TGYoshi, It is, in several ways. But that takes half the challenge out of play. ;) 12:34:01 <andythenorth> TGYoshi: there's a grf called manual industries that should do that for you 12:34:06 <TGYoshi> indeed, want to try if I like that :P 12:34:10 <andythenorth> if I recall correctly 12:34:17 <andythenorth> the FIRS set allows disabling closure 12:34:33 <TGYoshi> nobody can tell if I like it :D 12:34:33 <andythenorth> but FIRS is not currently designed for beginners :) 12:34:37 <xiong> If you load FIRS, then you will have choices to disable closure very specifically. 12:34:46 <TGYoshi> What the hell is firs xd 12:34:53 <andythenorth> I haven't made FIRS friendly to newbies yet :) 12:35:10 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_6_release 12:35:17 <xiong> andythenorth, What's up with FIRS, anyhow? Why no sugar refinery? What's going on? 12:35:27 <andythenorth> no sugar refinery?? 12:35:30 <andythenorth> why no bug report... 12:35:43 <xiong> Hey, all I see is a great green block. 12:35:44 <TGYoshi> New industies? 12:35:57 <xiong> I figured the graphic simply hadn't been drawn. 12:36:23 <TGYoshi> firs looks cool :P 12:37:47 <TGYoshi> Ok need to download now ^^ 12:37:55 <andythenorth> xiong: what FIRS version you have? 12:38:03 <xiong> TGYoshi, FIRS is exceptionally cool. So is ISRS; they go together like ham and eggs. So are a large number of vehicle sets; the defaults just plain suck. 12:38:24 <xiong> andythenorth, Um... 12:38:25 <TGYoshi> ISRS is? 12:38:30 * xiong looks 12:38:51 <xiong> FIRS 0.5.2 12:38:54 <TGYoshi> Sorry, noob here, where to download? :P 12:39:22 <andythenorth> TGYoshi: find the newgrf settings window in game splash screen 12:39:30 <xiong> TGYoshi, You can download a great number of NewGRFs without ever leaving OpenTTD. See 'Check Online Content'. 12:39:42 <TGYoshi> I know 12:39:45 <TGYoshi> searched for firs 12:39:47 <TGYoshi> 2 results xD 12:39:50 *** fjb is now known as Guest1250 12:39:51 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE3B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:40:03 <andythenorth> xiong: FIRS 0.6.1is not savegame safe with 0.5.x 12:40:09 <xiong> Once you get hooked on them, you will start scavenging the back racks of old porno bookstores, looking for more. 12:40:09 <andythenorth> but is recommended in every other respect :) 12:40:47 *** vb [vb@79.114.35.55] has joined #openttd 12:40:52 <TGYoshi> Ok great, what do I need to download? 12:40:55 <TGYoshi> They both look worse 12:40:56 <xiong> Now you tell me, andythenorth. What do I do, throw out my beautiful new map? I just got to 1898! 12:40:56 <TGYoshi> :P 12:41:31 <vb> hello? i need a little help 12:41:43 <vb> curiosity is what i'm infected with 12:41:47 <xiong> TGYoshi, There are so many NewGRFs. You must choose. Many stink. Somebody should write up a list of the good ones. 12:41:50 <andythenorth> xiong: patiene I guess 12:41:50 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-89-201.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:41:51 <vb> any info about the caboose trucks? 12:41:54 <andythenorth> patience /s 12:41:55 <vb> i can't find any info on wiki 12:42:01 <vb> *wagons 12:42:09 <xiong> ??? 12:42:13 <vb> caboose? 12:42:21 <xiong> cabeese 12:42:23 <vb> i remember them being in openttd 12:42:32 <andythenorth> only in newgrf train sets 12:42:35 <andythenorth> not in default game 12:42:40 <vb> oh 12:42:42 <vb> i see 12:42:47 <xiong> Yeh, default really is lame. 12:42:50 <TGYoshi> I don't see firs into the list :P 12:42:54 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has joined #openttd 12:43:02 <TGYoshi> or I'm blind :D 12:43:14 <xiong> FIRS Industry Replacement Set. 12:43:20 <vb> i just started a game in 1925 with default game 12:43:21 <vb> :) 12:43:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host194-223-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:43:28 <Wolf01> hello 12:43:35 <andythenorth> TGYoshi: do you know what OpenTTD version you have? 12:43:45 <TGYoshi> Yes I think XD 12:43:48 <xiong> You might be better off downloading from andythenorth's link, directly. But then you have to figure out how to install it yourself, which is not hard. 12:43:54 <TGYoshi> 1.0.5 as far I know 12:44:01 <andythenorth> I'll check 12:44:15 <xiong> Oh yeah, you gotta download and run nightly. The last "official" release is ancient. 12:44:29 <vb> what mods do you recommend for an enjoyable single player game? 12:44:31 <andythenorth> hmph 12:44:33 <TGYoshi> dohh 12:44:38 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't appear for 1.0.5 uses 12:44:40 <andythenorth> users / 12:44:46 <TGYoshi> That sucks :P 12:44:55 <TGYoshi> Shall I update to 1.1.0-b5? 12:44:57 <TGYoshi> :p 12:44:58 <andythenorth> get the 1.1.x beta 12:45:00 <xiong> vb, FIRS and ISRS to start. Unplayable without. 12:45:09 <TGYoshi> ok ^^ 12:45:21 <vb> i also have a problem, the trains in my station don't collect the goods in order 12:45:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: there's not much that speaks against it 12:45:26 <xiong> A decent train set, of course; I use NARS. 12:45:33 <vb> so like, i have 4 trains and 4 tons of coal, each of the 4 trains take 1 ton 12:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: unless you play multiplayer extensively 12:45:43 <vb> but i want the first train to take it all 12:45:48 <TGYoshi> solo for now :P 12:45:54 <TGYoshi> I mostly fail in mp 12:46:36 <xiong> eGRVTS and FISH for road vehicles and ships. I also have Bob's Random British Vehicles and Generic Cars. 12:46:38 <TGYoshi> Now I'm searching for a 1.1.0-b5 download :P, openttd.org doesn't like me again :D 12:46:55 <xiong> vb, It's a setting, improved loading algorithm. 12:47:01 <TGYoshi> oh found it 12:47:07 <andythenorth> xiong: much as I enjoy you recommending FIRS...compared to default game it has 4x number of industry types, and 3x number of cargos... 12:47:07 <andythenorth> ...so might be a bit much at first 12:47:09 <vb> where can i find it? 12:47:17 <xiong> TGYoshi, Nah, go for nightly, you'll be glad you did. 12:47:22 <andythenorth> I'd recommend playing the default climates until bored before trying FIRS :) 12:47:27 *** Guest1250 [~frank@p5DDFF507.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:45 <TGYoshi> O_O 12:47:47 <vb> nars has american trains? 12:47:49 <TGYoshi> New title screen xd 12:47:54 <vb> i'm more into europe 12:48:03 <xiong> Well, dunno, andythenorth. I guess it depends on the steepness of a guy's learning curve. 12:48:12 <andythenorth> vb: UKRS, DB Set, or 2CC train set 12:48:17 <TGYoshi> Found it :P 12:48:39 <xiong> North American Renewal Set. Many of the classic engines from American railroading. Good stuff back to 1850. 12:49:01 <Scuddles> pj1kpj1k 12:49:03 <TGYoshi> Now isrs isn't found ^^ 12:49:11 <vb> where can i set the loading algoritm? 12:49:34 <xiong> vb, Advanced Settings. 12:49:56 <xiong> Get to know them; there's a lot of them and they all do neat stuff, except the ones that don't. 12:50:21 <vb> tks,i turned it on 12:50:25 <TGYoshi> Ok :P 12:51:39 <xiong> TGYoshi, You really want a better train set, if nothing else. Depending on your world, old or new, NARS, UKRS, etc. 12:52:01 <TGYoshi> New :P 12:52:01 <planetmaker> Japanese is also quite nice. But arguably not European 12:52:09 <xiong> The default set is like the cheap plastic ready-to-roll box you get at the toy store. 12:52:33 <Terkhen> meh 12:52:34 <xiong> Hey, I loaded the Japanese Station Set. Kinky! 12:53:04 <xiong> I don't use the too-obviously J stuff but it makes a nice change from Canadian roofs. 12:53:08 <vb> yay, i kinda broke my savegame 12:53:14 <vb> default train says it needs catenary 12:53:16 <vb> :/ 12:53:29 <TGYoshi> ok :P 12:53:34 <planetmaker> well. they might 12:53:35 <xiong> Everything breaks savegames. 12:53:45 <planetmaker> what's up, Terkhen ? :-) 12:54:00 <TGYoshi> Cool 12:54:08 <TGYoshi> A fatal newgfx error occured :P 12:54:12 <vb> how do i start the train if it says no power? 12:54:17 <Terkhen> the old computer I got yesterday does not boot anymore 12:54:53 <planetmaker> :-( 12:55:02 <planetmaker> vb: you don't 12:55:05 <xiong> vb, There are a number of "AV8" plane sets. When I start in 1850, I eventually get Zepplins (which, apparently, cannot be run at a profit). 12:55:08 <planetmaker> simple :-) 12:55:47 <xiong> TGYoshi, It is possible for NewGRFs to conflict with one another. You may have to make a choice. 12:55:50 <Terkhen> and given the burnt smell I'm inclined to forget about fixing it 12:56:07 <xiong> Burnt smell, not a good sign. 12:56:10 <planetmaker> it usually only happens when you mess with newgrfs on a running game. Thus you must have clicked away a red warning box that you're doing dangerous things 12:56:35 * Terkhen likes the default vehicles BTW 12:56:48 <vb> what AI works with CC2 addon? 12:56:48 <TGYoshi> :P 12:56:57 <vb> i wanna start a new game 12:57:23 <xiong> Oh yeah. Basic principle: Don't change anything in a game. Make changes, start new game. You *can* do otherwise but don't try this at home. Professional driver, closed course. 12:57:54 <vb> hah 12:58:38 <xiong> Ah, New Iron Ore Mine, New Coal Mine. Strictly better-looking, oddly enough doesn't break FIRS at all. 12:59:45 <xiong> I have half a dozen passenger station sets. Still looking for one that's okay. Rural Stations is okay; Canadian Stations is my everyday. 13:00:16 <TGYoshi> Okayyy 13:00:39 <xiong> Longer Girder, Steel Bridge. There are two opposing viewpoints on bridges: They should be faster; and They should be slower. I'm in the first camp. 13:00:41 <TGYoshi> I'm going to cheat somehow :P, just need to know how :P 13:00:55 <TGYoshi> How to make sure industries will not close with firs? :D 13:00:56 <xiong> Ctrl-Alt-C 13:01:08 <TGYoshi> Not that cheat, that's boring :P 13:01:13 <xiong> -- oh. That's how to cheat. 13:01:33 <xiong> When you are loading FIRS, set the parameters. 13:01:46 <TGYoshi> I heard about parameters indeed 13:02:00 <xiong> You have a few different choices. I like everything to close; otherwise, the map gets cluttered. 13:02:11 <xiong> Click "Set parameters". 13:02:36 <TGYoshi> I saw 13:02:38 <xiong> But then, I also allow to prospect :) 13:02:50 <TGYoshi> Standart they won't cloase? 13:02:53 <xiong> More of a challenge when you don't. 13:03:09 <xiong> Mm, think maybe could be. Fiddle. 13:03:26 <TGYoshi> Right now it's messing around with ttd :p 13:03:43 <TGYoshi> Economy: Test economy? :P 13:03:45 *** james_o- [~james@host81-152-216-214.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:04:09 <xiong> TGYoshi, Are you seeing the advanced parameter settings dialog, with actual descriptions of what you're changing? 13:04:57 <xiong> Or is it the old funky one-line text entry area, where you have to Ouija Board in raw numbers? 13:04:58 <TGYoshi> Yes 13:05:08 <TGYoshi> A gui 13:05:18 <TGYoshi> In 1.0.5 it was a line :P 13:05:21 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 13:05:23 <xiong> Great. So, go ahead, please yourself. Some of the settings are not yet implemented. 13:05:36 <TGYoshi> They're standart off :P 13:05:43 <TGYoshi> So they won't die O_O 13:05:48 <TGYoshi> let's hope so :p 13:06:00 <TGYoshi> Now I have to restart the game... again xd 13:06:24 <TGYoshi> Any other newgfx things I need? :P 13:06:27 <xiong> Um, well, I'll argue the other side. I played with no-close and my map filled up with industries faster than I could even plan to connect them. 13:06:37 <andythenorth> TGYoshi: changing FIRS parameters is mostly safe in game 13:06:38 <xiong> TGYoshi, What have you got now? 13:06:55 <TGYoshi> NA railroad thing and firs :P 13:07:04 <xiong> What about ISRS? 13:07:13 <TGYoshi> That thing doesn't like to find that 13:07:19 <xiong> ? 13:07:24 <TGYoshi> No results 13:07:53 <xiong> Industrial Stations Renewal v0.8.0 is what I have 13:07:58 <TGYoshi> "International Stereotactic Radiosurgery Society - ISRS" 13:07:59 <TGYoshi> lol 13:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> TGYoshi: that's because any sane person abbreviates it "ISR" 13:08:24 <TGYoshi> ok got it 13:08:25 <TGYoshi> :P 13:08:34 <xiong> Oh, and I really do like New Fences. What is it? 13:08:47 <TGYoshi> New fences :P 13:09:08 <xiong> Yeh, "New fences". All track is fenced; the default fence is ugly. 13:09:22 <TGYoshi> lol 13:09:37 <TGYoshi> DWE thing? 13:09:46 <TGYoshi> 'New Fences' doesn't exist 13:10:02 <xiong> You probably wouldn't give beans for Sailing Ships. It's possible to start this game in 1700. 13:10:14 *** zydeco_ [~zydeco@90.Red-88-12-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:21 <TGYoshi> I start in 1950 :P 13:10:25 <xiong> New fences. Dunno. I don't use the search box, I scroll down the list. 13:10:31 <TGYoshi> pfff xD 13:10:41 *** James_ [~james@host81-152-216-214.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:11:02 <xiong> Purno's new railway fence 13:11:13 <TGYoshi> ahh got it xd 13:11:33 <TGYoshi> More? 13:12:00 <xiong> And of course, you probably want a town names set, unless you really want to live in Whifflepoof-by-the-Bath. 13:12:07 *** zydeco- [~zydeco@157.Red-79-154-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 13:12:18 <TGYoshi> lol 13:12:25 <zydeco-> oops 13:12:32 <TGYoshi> indeed :P 13:13:01 *** zydeco is now known as Guest1253 13:13:02 *** zydeco- is now known as zydeco 13:13:14 <TGYoshi> got one 13:13:21 <TGYoshi> More? :P 13:13:23 <xiong> Did you load eGRVTS? You'll want those to haul FIRS cargos on roads. 13:13:30 <TGYoshi> a what? 13:13:35 <zydeco> my internets aren't behaving today 13:13:52 <James_> Is it ok to run multiple instances of OpenTTD from the same directory? 13:13:58 <TGYoshi> ok 13:13:59 <TGYoshi> got it :P 13:14:20 <Terkhen> hi zydeco 13:14:36 <zydeco> hello Terkhen 13:15:31 <Ammler> James_: as server? You might adjust the port then 13:15:31 <xiong> That's probably plenty, TGYoshi. You'll develop needs as you go along; then you'll chuck the running game, go get more stuff, and start over. 13:15:59 <TGYoshi> Ok :P 13:16:06 <TGYoshi> Let's start a game now ^^ 13:16:26 <TGYoshi> ...... 13:16:32 <TGYoshi> I see a village on a very small island XD 13:16:40 *** Guest1253 [~zydeco@59.Red-88-22-92.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:16:47 <TGYoshi> 2 cells 13:17:02 <andythenorth> get a ship set :) 13:17:30 <Ammler> is there one? 13:17:49 <andythenorth> I'm not sure 13:17:50 <andythenorth> is there? 13:18:05 <TGYoshi> Nothing more now :P 13:18:07 <TGYoshi> want to play XD 13:18:19 <TGYoshi> Cool stuff @ station list :D 13:18:22 <Ammler> don't play with less than 50 newgrfs 13:18:40 *** zydeco_ [~zydeco@90.Red-88-12-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:18 <Terkhen> :D 13:19:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a41c:f67c:126a:ed69] has joined #openttd 13:19:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:19:31 <Ammler> :-) 13:20:25 <xiong> Oh wow, I shoudl have been alseep 30 typos ago. Time for beddy with teddy. Night all. 13:23:30 <James_> Ammler: I was thinking of the autosave files - I changed the autosaver to prepend the name of the config file to the autosave file 13:25:16 <Ammler> we run every server in its own working dir 13:25:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:25:55 <TGYoshi> LOL 13:26:02 <TGYoshi> great system with the depot at the station xD 13:26:21 <TGYoshi> Now I just want to know how to assign another element at a station 13:26:42 *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu 13:27:05 <James_> Does OpenTTD take the working directory to be the one containing the config file, or the one that the binary was launched from? 13:27:27 <Ammler> neither 13:27:36 <Ammler> the place where you start openttd 13:27:47 <James_> Ok 13:28:16 <Zuu> which happen to be the standard behaviour in most if not all operating systems. 13:28:19 <Ammler> that is generic system behavior, nothing to do with openttd 13:28:26 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-230-179.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in windows you can set the working directory in the .lnk 13:31:16 <Eddi|zuHause> default is the location of openttd.exe 13:31:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:46 <Ammler> we usually have the openttd.cfg in the working dir 13:32:10 <Ammler> also save 13:35:24 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 13:41:44 <vb> how do i turn on semaphores in the early game? 13:41:51 <vb> the red and green ones 13:43:38 <vb> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E4kwyCf138 :x 13:44:51 <Ammler> spam somewhere else 13:45:09 <vb> i'm not spamming 13:45:17 <vb> go backseat moderate somewhere else 13:45:59 *** Chillosophy [Chillosoph@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:46:16 <fjb> How stupid can anybody be? 13:46:24 <Wolf01> vb, that video is not related at all with the channel -> spam 13:46:29 <planetmaker> it's not like the youtube link is motivated by any conversation before or after 13:46:41 <vb> i like turtles 13:46:56 <planetmaker> we don't like spam 13:47:07 <vb> how do i turn on semaphores in the early game? 13:47:15 <planetmaker> adv. settings 13:47:52 <vb> yes but where? 13:47:56 <Wolf01> they are called light signals, and you can set the year of their introduction in adv. settings as planetmaker told, or you can use ctrl to place them instead of semaphores 13:48:08 <vb> there are hundreds of settings 13:48:31 <planetmaker> probably in economy... 13:48:39 <Wolf01> or in construction 13:49:10 <vb> oh yeah, found them 13:49:13 <vb> tks 13:49:24 <Wolf01> or use the signals gui and select them 13:52:37 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: zodttd] 13:52:48 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 13:53:24 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@CPE-60-224-82-14.wxzr1.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:40 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:00 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 13:59:26 <planetmaker> _settings_client.gui.show_" target="_blank">client.gui.show_town_names = !_settings_client.gui.show_" target="_blank">client.gui.show_town_names; <-- there's certainly a shorter way for this... 13:59:37 <planetmaker> ... but which? 14:00:02 <glx> ^= true 14:00:20 <planetmaker> :-) thx 14:00:26 <glx> but some platforms had problems with that IIRC 14:00:33 <planetmaker> :-P 14:00:42 <planetmaker> I think we solved that 14:01:16 <planetmaker> it's used a lot 14:01:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9205.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:39 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:05:46 <zydeco> but ^= true can be less readable 14:06:58 <Ammler> doesn't look "shorter" either :-) 14:07:41 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm84.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:43 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-205-93-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:07:53 <Timmaexx> Good Morning. 14:08:53 <glx> zydeco: it's a typical toggle 14:09:31 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:10:14 <Terkhen> hi Timmaexx 14:10:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:18:39 *** vb [vb@79.114.35.55] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 14:19:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:23:45 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:24:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:25:43 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:30:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:02 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:32:23 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dba9205.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:44 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:37:45 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:39:32 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:08 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:08 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:26 *** ar3k [~ident@aeru145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:15 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:01:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:03:50 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 15:05:37 * andythenorth puzzles 15:06:40 <andythenorth> the FISH log raft gets bigger as it loads 15:07:02 <andythenorth> this leads to a not-ideal jumping effect in the graphics 15:07:09 <andythenorth> the towboat jumps forward 15:07:37 <andythenorth> I can't think of a solution. Ideas? 15:07:42 <planetmaker> add empty sprites 15:08:08 <planetmaker> and compression bit set appropriately (no crop) 15:09:57 <andythenorth> ? 15:10:38 <planetmaker> http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=RealSprites#compression 15:10:50 <planetmaker> the 3rd byte of the real sprites 15:10:58 <planetmaker> +0x40 15:11:38 <planetmaker> like 3rd byte set to 0x41 or 0x43 instead of 03 15:12:27 <andythenorth> I think I mis-explained :) 15:13:47 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I say: Use in all loading stages the sprites of the same size as the fully loaded one 15:14:16 <planetmaker> thus for no load you'll have HUGE but mostly transparent ship 15:14:22 <planetmaker> but when it then loads - it won't jump 15:14:26 <andythenorth> it means it will turn funny :) 15:14:37 <planetmaker> hm, yes 15:14:38 <andythenorth> the pivot point will be way behind the tug when empty 15:14:54 <andythenorth> I thought of animated frames to move the tug when loading / unloading 15:14:56 <andythenorth> overkill :P 15:15:27 <planetmaker> he 15:16:53 *** zydeco [~zydeco@157.Red-79-154-148.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:19:23 <Alberth> shunting ship wagons :p 15:20:31 <andythenorth> bleargh 15:20:40 <andythenorth> articulated ships 15:23:38 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> THERE IT WAS 15:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> [Samstag, 18. Dezember 2010] [15:21:07] * Eddi|zuHause waits for the time andythenorth requests ship-wagons :p 15:26:29 <andythenorth> ha 15:26:35 <andythenorth> it's happened before ;0 15:27:12 <Ammler> needs crash detection first :-) 15:27:19 <Ammler> or how that is called 15:27:27 <andythenorth> ship-wagons is not same as articulated ships 15:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: how is that related? 15:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but tugboat/float is 15:28:04 <andythenorth> not what I asked for :) 15:35:06 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-120-41.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:41:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-118-207.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:44:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:46:36 <dihedral> oi 15:51:21 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:41 <Rubidium> heffer: it's fixed in r21605 / a duplicate of FS#4324 15:53:04 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm84.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 15:55:28 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 15:56:56 *** ar3k_ [ident@aeru145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:56:58 *** ar3k_ is now known as ar3k 15:59:11 <Rubidium> heffer: I doubt there'll be a 1.0.6 though, so if you want to fix it in Fedora you should just use r21605 16:04:13 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:23 *** Timmaexx [~chatzilla@port-92-205-93-54.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101206121845]] 16:16:16 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:18:46 <heffer> Rubidium: okay thankd :) 16:21:06 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:26:07 *** valhalla2w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:28:06 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:15 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=41954 <- someone want to moderate? 16:29:30 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:29:58 <dihedral> it's a 2 year old thread! 16:30:05 <dihedral> well - it *was*! 16:30:47 <Alberth> click the "!" button? 16:32:25 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@45.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 16:36:04 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6FFA8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:38:45 *** ZirconiumX [561b9bc6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:42:51 <dihedral> and report as what? 16:42:59 <dihedral> spam? inappropriate? 16:43:15 <Terkhen> necromancy :P 16:43:25 <dihedral> it's not in the list :-P 16:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "other"? 16:44:29 <dihedral> you almost only get to report as "other" - would not be bad if that list was extended a little 16:44:36 <dihedral> orudge, ^ hint :-P 16:44:40 <andythenorth> yeah, but will the tip stop my trains refusing to service? 16:44:42 <andythenorth> in 1.1.x? 16:48:45 *** zydeco [~zydeco@163.165.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd 16:48:52 <zydeco> greetings 16:49:39 <dihedral> andythenorth, it's not even about that version 16:49:51 <andythenorth> I know :) 16:52:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: i mostly reported things as "off-topic" [usually in the sense of "wrong subforum"] 16:54:07 <Terkhen> hi zydeco 16:54:36 <Terkhen> dihedral: ^ he's the one you were waiting for 16:55:33 <planetmaker> ho zydeco 16:55:48 <dihedral> Terkhen, i was wondering :-) 16:55:58 <Terkhen> :) 16:56:06 <zydeco> so what for? 16:58:06 * planetmaker assumes testing chores :-P 16:58:52 <dihedral> you guess wrong :-P 16:59:15 *** Zuu_ is now known as Zuu 17:06:43 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:32 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:11:57 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has left #openttd [] 17:12:27 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Quit: michi_cc] 17:12:29 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 17:17:36 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF98A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:48 <TGYoshi> let's build on 17:31:54 <TGYoshi> or get online :] 17:31:55 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:59 *** Dreamxtreme [Dre@92.30.213.148] has joined #openttd 17:34:49 <Alberth> dihedral: the same arguments you present here imho 17:35:33 <Alberth> ie what is the difference between asking here, and asking in a pm? 17:41:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77331.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:33 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE3B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77331.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:15 *** Dreamxtreme [Dre@92.30.213.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:49 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFE3B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #openttd 17:54:20 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 18:03:45 <Alberth> andythenorth: does Foobar do Dutch FIRS translation currently, or should I create a few sentences? 18:03:58 <planetmaker> Alberth: go for it 18:04:09 <planetmaker> the last one was from Y3xo, I think 18:04:26 <planetmaker> or from you? 18:04:46 <planetmaker> FB is around far too seldom :S 18:05:58 <andythenorth> Terkhen: any spanish translation update? :) 18:06:07 <andythenorth> it would be nice to get translations into 0.6.2 18:06:17 <Terkhen> I'll check :) 18:07:34 <Alberth> can I borrow the check script from somewhere? :) 18:07:35 *** Regiovogel [~Miranda@nrbg-4dbe2ade.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:45 <Regiovogel> good evening! 18:07:50 <Alberth> evenink 18:07:50 <planetmaker> Alberth: repo 18:07:57 <planetmaker> scripts/check_language.sh 18:08:13 <Alberth> great, thanks 18:08:18 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:45 <planetmaker> you need to supply a part of the intended filename. like "utch" ;-) 18:08:52 <planetmaker> or 1F IIRC 18:09:13 <Terkhen> hi Regiovogel 18:09:33 <TGYoshi> Mowwww 18:09:39 <TGYoshi> how to convert a car to something else? 18:09:43 <TGYoshi> a wagon* 18:10:14 <TGYoshi> I want a box-wagon to a scrap thing 18:11:14 <Alberth> click the double box button in the train window for refitting 18:12:30 <TGYoshi> I cloned the train -.- 18:12:41 <TGYoshi> oh wrong button 18:12:41 <TGYoshi> :P 18:12:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/LATEST/log/ 18:12:49 <andythenorth> ;) 18:13:43 <TGYoshi> got it 18:13:45 <TGYoshi> ty :P 18:14:56 <Terkhen> wow, lots of missing strings, it will take a while :) 18:16:52 <Regiovogel> any dev around who'd like to talk a bit about acceleration? :) 18:17:42 <Terkhen> @get @get #openttd -3 18:17:42 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Error: '@get' is not a valid topic number. 18:17:47 <SmatZ> Ammler: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/4355 :P 18:17:49 <Terkhen> meh 18:17:56 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: ask your question directly 18:18:26 <Regiovogel> i'll try to do so... it's about articulated vehicles 18:18:30 <TGYoshi> SmatZ: invailed certificate :D 18:18:33 <Ammler> SmatZ: oh sorry 18:18:40 <SmatZ> TGYoshi: it's self0signed 18:18:43 <Ammler> could you dublicate it? 18:18:49 <SmatZ> Ammler: no problem, I like that idea :) 18:19:00 <TGYoshi> lol 18:19:41 <Regiovogel> for articulated vehicles, only the first part can have some weight, for the following articulated parts it is always zero, right? 18:19:51 <Ammler> is that MG 2006TTD from DevZone? 18:19:54 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: yes 18:20:02 <Terkhen> but the cargo weight is taken into account 18:20:03 <SmatZ> Ammler: no clue 18:20:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:31 <Regiovogel> yes, of course, my question was about the empty weight, sorry. 18:20:49 <Ammler> I have to admit, I didn't even try to search for a ticket :'-( 18:21:25 <Regiovogel> does this also mean that articulated parts don't add resistance on slopes (when empty)? 18:22:03 <Terkhen> I think so 18:26:21 <Regiovogel> hmh... okay, just tested this with HEQS 18:27:48 <Regiovogel> only the first vehicle does count for this... so, if the first part of a tram leaves the slope, the tram will accelerate to its normal speed 18:28:02 <Terkhen> yes 18:28:19 <Regiovogel> looks a bit... strange ;) 18:28:39 <Terkhen> IIRC this was specified on the NewGRF specs for articulated vehicles 18:28:48 <Terkhen> I also think it is strange, yes 18:28:49 <Regiovogel> is it likely that there will be a change at some time? 18:28:56 <Regiovogel> yes, it's in the specs 18:29:43 *** `Fuco` [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 18:29:57 <Terkhen> I would welcome that change, but I don't know if it would break existing sets or have any other nasty side effects (besides andy getting annoyed because he would have to tweak HEQS again) 18:30:23 <Regiovogel> the action0 description says that weight for articulated parts "should be zero" 18:30:40 <Terkhen> but as usual it does not explain why, right? :) 18:31:08 <Terkhen> there was some discussion about this issue at the improved acceleration for road vehicles thread in the forums 18:31:11 <Regiovogel> if it does, i haven't found the explanation yet ;) 18:31:19 <Terkhen> you might want to check it out, I don't really remember it 18:33:46 <planetmaker> [19:27] <Regiovogel> only the first vehicle does count for this... so, if the first part of a tram leaves the slope, the tram will accelerate to its normal speed <-- but it would do that in reality even - there's less 'effective' weight to pull 18:33:47 <Regiovogel> well, speaking of HEQS, yes, the trams need some tweaking... andy knows why :) 18:34:45 <Terkhen> hmm... I wonder if the acceleration code currently ignores articulated parts completely or if it adds 0 as their weight 18:35:02 <Terkhen> if the former is true then changing this would have a huge performance impact in games with a lot of articulated vehicles 18:35:20 <Regiovogel> planetmaker: but the wagons also have some weight, so there should be at least any effect on acceleration... 18:35:50 <planetmaker> true. But honestly, given the scale of this game it IMHO matters not 18:36:41 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:27 <Regiovogel> might be a point, yes... 18:37:49 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f13f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:53 <planetmaker> unless you have a 5-tile tram like in HEQS :-P 18:39:41 <Regiovogel> i was thinking of e. g. building an eight-car-trainset as articulated vehicle (something like ICE3)... 18:40:59 <Regiovogel> there would only be a small impact of the "cargo" weight, so basically the complete weight of the consist would be on the first part? 18:43:17 <Regiovogel> adding weight for powered wagons shouldn't work in this case, because var 23 "should be zero" (there it is again) for articulated parts 18:45:27 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I wouldn't object to changing HEQS (again) 18:45:39 <andythenorth> but I'd be wondering about rv-wagons 18:45:50 <andythenorth> HEQS is only articulated because it has to be 18:45:52 <Terkhen> :) 18:46:05 <andythenorth> rv-wagons would suggest taking weight into account correctly? 18:46:38 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I finally got a computer for profiling, but I still had no time to set it up (and to test if I still get funny results) 18:46:47 <Terkhen> and IIRC weight is taken into account for wagons already 18:47:05 <Terkhen> so if HEQS trams were converted for using wagons they would not suffer from this issue anymore 18:47:14 <andythenorth> that was my thinking 18:47:26 <andythenorth> i.e. rv-wagons might disappear the issue for most of HEQS 18:47:34 <andythenorth> other RV sets might still have articulated vehicles :P 18:47:37 <Terkhen> but other examples of articulated vehicles (such as the one Regiovogel mentioned) would still exist 18:47:41 <andythenorth> I don't really care right now :D 18:48:07 <andythenorth> there seems to be a lot of futzing with acceleration models :D 18:48:20 <andythenorth> but there are bigger fish to fry I reckon 18:48:34 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think so, in mostly all HEQS vehicles that would remain articulated, the weight of the empty articulated parts would be negligible in comparison with the first part 18:51:35 <Regiovogel> may i ask what exactly you are talking about? would rv-wagons mean a concept similar to trains? 18:51:50 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: yes, wagons for road vehicles 18:52:18 <Terkhen> andythenorth: the translation is done, as soon as I set up ssh in this computer I'll push it 18:53:54 <Regiovogel> Terkhen: wasn't able to find something useful on the forums regarding weight for articulated parts... but it might of course happen that "adding" this would break existing newgrfs 18:54:54 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44714 18:55:02 <Terkhen> somewhere in that thread we talk about the issue 18:55:15 <Terkhen> originally the rv acceleration patch took into account weight for articulated parts 18:55:40 <Regiovogel> hm, i browsed that thread. have to re-read it a bit more carefully. thanks 18:59:36 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if rv-wagons existed, then for the greater number of articulated RVs, weight of trailing parts would not be a big issue 18:59:46 <andythenorth> just put it on the lead part, and don't worry about it 18:59:56 <Terkhen> yes 19:00:06 <andythenorth> for an out-and-back journey on the same route, it should average to be correct? 19:00:29 <Terkhen> hmm... I don't know 19:00:47 <andythenorth> depends on number of vehicles and length of slope, but in many cases it would average out 19:01:05 <Terkhen> or be close enough to not matter 19:01:15 <andythenorth> weight would be too high when first starting up slope, and weight would come off slope too soon 19:01:27 <andythenorth> for longer vehicles it wouldn't be the case so much 19:01:33 <andythenorth> but...meh 19:02:07 <Terkhen> :) 19:04:26 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/dutch_shuffling.patch <-- just moving dutch strings around to match the order of the generic one 19:04:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: you want commit rights? 19:04:52 <Alberth> not really 19:04:55 <andythenorth> bah 19:05:00 <Regiovogel> is there any information about rv-wagons available? sounds interesting 19:05:03 <andythenorth> so no I have to apply your patch :| :D 19:05:13 <andythenorth> Regiovogel: yesish...mostly no 19:05:23 <andythenorth> ^^ +W 19:05:40 <Alberth> build a WT for newgrfs :p 19:05:46 <andythenorth> Regiovogel: information item 1....it's not done 19:05:50 <andythenorth> ;) 19:06:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: I considered it :P 19:06:05 <Regiovogel> ok, was just wondering ;) 19:06:08 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: a spec stub which I can't find right now and some irc logs 19:06:20 <andythenorth> and a repo at the devzone 19:06:32 <Terkhen> there have been changes in that direction already in trunk (mostly unification of road vehicle and train code) 19:06:39 <Alberth> it would be beneficial for many grfs, I think 19:06:42 <Terkhen> but besides that it is just a starting project 19:07:13 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@45.80-202-82.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203075014]] 19:08:12 <planetmaker> Alberth: quite so. But the big question is "how"? 19:08:42 <Alberth> in what way 'how'? 19:08:53 <planetmaker> It would need some new newgrf specs... a rework of action13 or so 19:08:54 <andythenorth> Alberth: that patch built so I've committed it :) 19:09:16 <Alberth> ok, now the changed texts :) 19:09:17 <andythenorth> planetmaker: just get make to curl from a url 19:09:29 <andythenorth> and then we all cry when web access is down :( 19:09:43 <andythenorth> stick it in a CMS 19:09:49 <andythenorth> have the CMS use the repo 19:09:51 <Alberth> some java program run locally? 19:09:59 <planetmaker> well. I imagine it rather like "update translations" button in the newgrf gui. Which then pulls addon-stuff 19:10:25 <planetmaker> similar to like grfs and other add-ons 19:10:44 <andythenorth> repo -> defines into CMS -> translation interface -> translations into CMS -> make pulls from CMS 19:11:14 <andythenorth> or CMS commits back to repo 19:11:21 <andythenorth> I don't know how 'trust' is done for web translations 19:11:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the idea would be to add it to like the existing WT 19:11:48 <andythenorth> ho 19:11:53 <andythenorth> I haven't looked at that at all :) 19:11:58 <andythenorth> back to the code for me :) 19:12:01 <planetmaker> but the biggest problem would be how to a) get the strings from the newgrfs and uniquely identify them 19:12:13 <dihedral> can the existing WT not be extended to also handle newgrf's? 19:12:15 <planetmaker> b) avoid double work for each version uploaded. Thus to match strings accross versions 19:12:36 <Alberth> I was thinking a much more local concept, running at a user his own machine 19:12:36 <dihedral> iirc TrueBrain did have in mind to allow multiple projects be handled 19:12:45 <planetmaker> c) how to get those strings to the user and how to handle it. Grfs need to match md5, esp. in MP 19:13:40 * TrueBrain awakes from hybernations, reads, realises planetmaker and Yexo have those answers, and retreats back in his cave 19:13:45 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm84.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 19:14:09 <planetmaker> need a stick with some fire? :-P 19:15:11 <TrueBrain> I already have a stick 19:15:15 <TrueBrain> trying to find some ore now 19:15:22 <TrueBrain> (/me loves references :p) 19:15:24 <planetmaker> ah, right. Happy digging ;-) 19:15:31 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 19:16:28 * andythenorth goes north 19:17:49 * andythenorth there is a sprite sheet here 19:17:54 * andythenorth pick up sprite sheet 19:18:03 * andythenorth the sprite sheet is empty 19:18:17 * andythenorth fill sprite sheet 19:20:04 <andythenorth> @calc 5*3 19:20:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 15 19:20:19 * andythenorth hoped arithmetic had changed recently :( 19:22:14 <Alberth> maybe it changed back just before you tested 19:26:22 <dihedral> andythenorth, that is quite sad that you needed DorpsGek for that calculation :-D 19:27:00 * andythenorth has one of those boring 'both solutions are wrong' problems 19:27:11 <andythenorth> in fact all three solutions are wrong 19:27:23 *** michi_cc [michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:30 <andythenorth> I need a three dimensional sprite sheet, and I only get two dimensions 19:29:02 * andythenorth does something else 19:29:03 <andythenorth> food 19:29:04 <andythenorth> beet 19:29:05 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 19:29:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 19:29:07 <andythenorth> beer even 19:31:28 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r22071 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp: -Fix (r20075): some hotkey names in hotkey.cfg for the scenario editor toolbar were completely bogus 19:35:30 * andythenorth figures that a third dimension is using separate files 19:35:38 <andythenorth> and that nobody else has a clue what he is doing 19:36:37 <Terkhen> :D 19:39:32 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF98A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:41:02 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@98.125.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 19:43:01 <Regiovogel> Terkhen: in the thread about your improved acceleration, you wrote "It is more complicated than it seems, as there would be some problems with tractive effort." (about weight for articulated parts)... am i right to assume it's about powered/unpowered articulated parts? 19:43:44 <Terkhen> probably, back then I did not really understand the difference between articulated parts and wagons 19:45:02 <dihedral> having a highlight on java is not too good when sitting in the ##java channel :-P 19:45:19 <Regiovogel> e. g. for andys trams, only the weight of the first vehicle should be taken into account for TE calculation; but in some modern 5-part-tram the weight of all parts should be considered... 19:45:52 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-176-207.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 19:48:22 <Alberth> planetmaker: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/check_language.sh.patch ? 19:48:30 * Rubidium offers dihedral a cup of java 19:48:40 * Regiovogel isn't too good in writing english texts... 19:48:45 * andythenorth looks at sugar cane trams in java 19:49:09 <dihedral> i'd rather have a cup of pg tips :-P 19:49:29 <Regiovogel> speaking of trains, i'd say that the biggest difference would be that a vehicle built of articulated parts is a fixed consist, while wagons can be moved out of them (more or less) easily 19:50:05 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22072 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r21966): flipping wasn't (correctly) disabled in some cases 19:51:31 <Terkhen> yes 19:53:54 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:54:44 <Regiovogel> the best solution for allowing weight for articulated parts would surely be to let the newgrf tell if it wants to use that function... for correct TE calculation, the articulated parts would have to be marked as powered 19:59:34 <Regiovogel> is there an easy way to check if articulated parts have weight set only by analyzing the newgrf? or would it be necessary to build all articulated vehicles of a newgrf and show the information somewhere? 20:04:50 <Alberth> look for the 'weight' vehicle setting in the NFO code? 20:05:50 <Alberth> you can probably fool the analysis with jumping around 20:05:59 <Alberth> s/with/by/ 20:06:28 <Regiovogel> the nfo code gives me the weight property, but it doesn't say if it's used as articulated part :) 20:07:50 <Regiovogel> would be interesting to know what the usual way of coding articulated vehicles is 20:08:51 <Regiovogel> if the articulated parts use another vehicle ID, the weight could of course be 0 20:09:21 <asilv> i don't know what the usual way is, but i have used same id for both front and the other parts 20:09:39 <Regiovogel> but if all parts use the same vehicle ID, they all would get the same weight if the behaviour would be changed 20:10:43 <asilv> yes, and to be honest i don't relly see need to change it, the effect is not usually noticeable 20:11:09 <Regiovogel> in some test grfs i wrote i also used the same ID 20:12:17 <Regiovogel> andys trams e. g. use other IDs for the wagons, but in this case i think it makes sense 20:13:19 <Alberth> any current newgrfs would be incorrect if they use anything else than 0 in the articulated, wouldn't they? 20:14:28 <asilv> weight for articulated parts is currently ignored so most newgrf authors propably haven't paid much attention to it 20:14:49 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/diffs/dutch_changes.patch 20:15:10 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 20:15:10 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 20:15:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 20:15:24 *** murr7y [~murray@177.84-48-69.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:15:54 <Regiovogel> when weight for articulated parts would be taken into account, yes, they would be 20:17:39 <Regiovogel> it would have to be enabled by the newgrf author to not break existing sets... 20:22:36 <Regiovogel> oh, and i think i might have found a "bug" today... 20:23:03 <Regiovogel> was just testing some modifications to the gui 20:24:21 <Regiovogel> when changing the freight multiplier ingame, vehicle weight is not recalculated 20:24:37 <Alberth> Terkhen: no way to get rid of false positives in the check_language script other than by changing the line? 20:26:51 *** murr7y [~murray@177.84-48-69.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 20:27:34 <Regiovogel> should i open a task on flyspray for that or will it be closed as "won't fix" because that is not supposed behaviour by users? 20:31:08 <Yexo> the setting cannot be changed in a multiplayer game, so it can't cause any desync issues 20:31:17 <planetmaker> interesting patch, Alberth :-) 20:31:22 <Yexo> so I'd expect it to take effect immediatly 20:32:19 <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, but no way to say "I checked the strings, and they are fine" 20:32:40 <planetmaker> yeah, it needs something like "this is ok"... 20:33:27 <Alberth> Regiovogel: in my view, vehicles should be recalculated (whatever that means) 20:35:05 <Regiovogel> well, technically it would mean calling CargoChanged() for every GroundVehicle... 20:35:36 <Yexo> no, calling Train::MarkDirty() for every train instead 20:36:17 <Regiovogel> ah, okay 20:37:08 <Regiovogel> RoadVehicles obviously don't use the cargo factor, do they? overlooked that... 20:37:20 <Yexo> indeed, it's only for trains 20:37:31 <Alberth> just a matter of time :) 20:37:36 <Terkhen> Alberth: I did not find any good way of avoiding those false positives 20:41:25 <Regiovogel> so, am i supposed to open a ticket? i'm used to do this from work... (but then i'm opening those tickets solve them myself...) 20:41:40 <Yexo> no need, I'll commit a fix quite soon 20:42:00 <Alberth> basically check that the 7F variant text did not get changed after the translation got changed I guess, but that is not so trivial 20:42:26 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: it sounds like it should be recalculated, yes 20:42:51 <Terkhen> Alberth: but for that you need some "smart" way to store and compare the changes 20:43:09 <Regiovogel> Yexo: ok, thanks :) 20:44:44 <Regiovogel> i'm currently thinking of some kind of acceleration graph 20:44:48 <Alberth> Terkhen: yep, that's why it is not so trivial :) It sounds too complicated for your general newgrf tbh 20:45:23 <Rubidium> can't you use mercurial + blame + some magic; you'd extract the last time the string was changed from the blame 20:45:32 <planetmaker> Alberth: Terkhen maybe we could add a file (local only) which stores the strings and the revisions 20:45:34 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r22073 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Fix: immediately update the train weight when you change the multiplier for train cargo weight 20:45:47 <Yexo> Regiovogel: thanks for spotting that bug 20:45:49 <planetmaker> it would then only work for those which have a repo... but well 20:45:59 <Terkhen> Rubidium: that's what it currently does, it checks the blame revision to know when it was changed 20:46:08 <Terkhen> but you get false positives when a string is moved to other part of the file 20:46:34 <Rubidium> so do it recursively till the string actually changed? 20:46:41 <Regiovogel> Yexo: you're welcome :) 20:47:05 <Alberth> Rubidium: that would be the solution I think 20:47:34 <Terkhen> yes, that sounds good :) 20:47:37 <Alberth> but that is mostly beyond a simple shell script :) 20:48:24 <Regiovogel> by the way, to all devs... thank you for your work on this great game 20:49:24 <Alberth> aside from the question whether a translator for a grf should need the history of the project (if it exists in the first place :p ) 20:51:06 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: you are welcome :) 20:51:27 <planetmaker> we do it also for our joy :-) 20:51:51 <Terkhen> ^ 20:51:55 <Regiovogel> good to hear :) 20:51:59 <planetmaker> and nice that there are others who find it useful :-) 20:52:42 <Regiovogel> has anybody thought of something like an acceleration graph by now? 20:52:49 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r22074 /trunk/src/ (settings.cpp table/settings.h): -Cleanup (r22073): there was already a setting-callback that did what is needed 20:53:07 <planetmaker> there are some in the threads which discuss that... *somewhere* 20:53:48 <Terkhen> hmmm... I remember seeing a graph like that at one of the recent acceleration threads 20:53:57 <Rubidium> Regiovogel: I think people will go insane with such a graph... what, it takes days to accelerate to top speed? ;) 20:54:37 <Terkhen> :D 20:54:54 <Regiovogel> Terkhen: i think that these graphs were created with some other tool with values that ottd generated... 20:55:09 <Terkhen> yes, they were not generated by OpenTTD 20:55:44 <Regiovogel> don't know how hard it would be to use the graphs we currently have for this... 20:56:03 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: I have a stalled patch for displaying the payment of delivering cargo at a certain speed 20:56:12 <Regiovogel> it's all more about money in them 20:56:13 <Terkhen> the code for selecting a vehicle works, you might want to look at it 20:56:23 <Regiovogel> ah, that sounds cool 20:56:35 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/patches/index.php?folder=speed_graphs/ <--- the only problem was the speed selector 20:57:17 <Rubidium> heffer: why did you take a grfcodec nightly to get png support instead of say 5.0.0? 20:57:24 <Rubidium> uhm.. 5.1.0 ;) 20:57:46 <Regiovogel> i'd think of having at least two lines in this graph, one for an empty and one for a loaded consist 20:57:54 <heffer> Rubidium: because i was using a nightly already and so i figured it'd be okay to do so again :D 20:57:56 <Regiovogel> (fully loaded, that is) 20:58:30 *** Adambean [AdamR@83.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 20:58:35 <heffer> Rubidium: is there any seriously wrong with it? 20:58:44 <heffer> s/any/anything/ 20:59:16 <Rubidium> probably not, it's just odd to take a nightly if it's not needed 20:59:17 <planetmaker> it works nicely on the newgrf compile "farm" 20:59:26 <heffer> Rubidium: yeah you're probably right 20:59:51 <heffer> i'll take the next stable version as soon as it comes out 21:00:37 *** wargh [51ea85b5@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:49 <Regiovogel> regarding slopes for the acceleration graph would be a bit harder i think, because every vehicle has its specific resistance for moving on slopes... well, it could be averaged, but over what? average over length, average over number of vehicles...? 21:01:30 <heffer> i'll be updating opengfx as soon als the new grfcodec hits the repos 21:03:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-176-207.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:04:02 <Regiovogel> could also be of interest for buying new vehicles. in the graph window, you could enter the train weight, and when selecting another engine in the buy menu the graph could be recalculated... 21:05:39 <Regiovogel> is it actually possible to access the vehicle acceleration code from a graph? 21:08:31 <Terkhen> you would need to create a vehicle for that 21:08:31 <Regiovogel> but on the other hand i don't think this is the right way to go, because it is thought to be called when you actually want to accelerate the vehicle... 21:08:46 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f13f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 21:10:27 <Regiovogel> you mean to call the graph from the buy menu? 21:11:51 <Terkhen> I mean that the acceleration code is prepared to work with vehicles, not with values (they are class functions of GroundVehicle) 21:12:46 <Regiovogel> yes, that's clear to me... so for calculating the graph for an existing train i would also have to create a new vehicle? 21:13:26 <Terkhen> yes, because the acceleration code works with the internal values of the vehicle and modifies them 21:13:35 <Terkhen> so either you create a clone or you backup everything 21:15:29 <Regiovogel> is it actually possible to do these calculations for vehicles that are in a depot? 21:16:35 <wargh> I'm trying to use the autoreplace feature. I choose a train in the left column and one in the right and press start replacing. But not a single train gets replaced. What am I doing wrong? 21:18:19 <Terkhen> Regiovogel: IIRC you will get always zero because the stop flag is on 21:18:21 <wargh> Autoreplace and autorenew are the only things in the game I can't get to work. 21:18:27 <Regiovogel> hmm 21:18:43 <TGYoshi> Tralalala 21:19:50 <Regiovogel> i'll play around with the functions a bit... 21:20:14 <TGYoshi> Is there a tutorial about setting up a dedicated server? 21:20:26 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: stop requesting bad features all the time :-P 21:20:27 <TGYoshi> Including some standard setting changes 21:21:11 <TGYoshi> And what are the requirements of the server pc to run a 12-player one smoothly? :P 21:21:14 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe86de00-46.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 21:21:55 <Regiovogel> oh, an acceleration graph has also been suggested in 2004, wow :D 21:21:56 <Rubidium> wargh: probably the depots are too far from the routes to be "found" automatically 21:22:01 <Ammler> you stole use the pbs workaround for terminus stations and now you made engines unuseable at the end of the trains (FS#4462) 21:22:08 <Alberth> oh, 12 players at 64x64 runs smooth everywhere :) 21:22:18 <TGYoshi> lol 21:22:34 <TGYoshi> 256x256 map, 12 players 21:22:51 *** Fast2 [~Fast2@p57AF98A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:23:38 <Rubidium> TGYoshi: it depends mostly on the kind of network and such that gets eventually built 21:23:41 <wargh> Rubidium: I have one at each platform. And the routes for the few old trains are short. 21:23:54 <Alberth> there are some wiki pages about setting up a server afaik, no idea what's on them, I never bothered to look 21:24:07 <Rubidium> wargh: then you'd need to provide a savegame 21:24:37 <TGYoshi> Rubidium: Explain? 21:24:46 <TGYoshi> Monorail is heavyer then simple rail? 21:24:50 <Alberth> TGYoshi: but we already have plenty of servers, we need moderated ones 21:25:06 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: the sad thing is, we need years for getting our FRs to trunk, you need some days ;-) 21:25:07 <TGYoshi> Huh, don't get that one too :P 21:25:10 <Alberth> TGYoshi: mostly number of trains, amount of cargo 21:25:13 <Rubidium> for the server it doesn't matter much whether you have 1 or 64 clients 21:25:35 <TGYoshi> Yea I've got a great 1mb/s upload speed ^^, too low? 21:25:36 <Rubidium> I could even quote you an unpublished paper on that ;) 21:26:15 <Rubidium> as handling a client is basically no work; the game state handling takes much more effort 21:26:36 <TGYoshi> Yea, I play and host on the same machine.. 21:26:42 <glx> server requirements are exactly the same as client 21:26:44 <TGYoshi> However, got no problems running two clients 21:26:49 <Alberth> TGYoshi: look at the server page, and look at the total number clients. the former is often bigger than the latter. In other words, we don't need more servers, we need someone that actively moderates the games being played there 21:27:19 <TGYoshi> poor you, there will be another server ^^ 21:27:25 <TGYoshi> I want to host to play with some friends 21:27:31 <TGYoshi> And maybe public after that 21:27:32 <glx> and if you have a multicore CPU you can easily run client and server on the same machine 21:27:43 <TGYoshi> quadcore ^^ 21:27:47 <glx> as openttd is monocore 21:28:05 <TGYoshi> It's not heavy for my pc at all 21:28:17 <ABCRic> glx: isn't client heavier than dedicated server because of the graphics? 21:28:42 <glx> graphics is not the cpu eater :) 21:29:00 <ABCRic> still, it is something :P 21:29:01 <Alberth> ABCRic: and the server has to sort out all the network 21:29:16 <TGYoshi> Yea, but is 1 mb/s upload speed acceptable? 21:30:16 <ABCRic> my game gets noticeably slower when I have a lot of vehicle windows open 21:30:46 <TGYoshi> my game never gets slow x] 21:31:15 <Alberth> use lots of boats :p 21:31:37 <TGYoshi> Why :P 21:31:38 <ABCRic> with YAPF :D 21:31:41 <TGYoshi> I never use them xD 21:31:56 <glx> Alberth: without buoys ;) 21:32:39 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:32:41 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:34:01 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has joined #openttd 21:36:06 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:20 *** xiong [~xiong@netblock-68-183-230-223.dslextreme.com] has joined #openttd 21:38:57 <wargh> Rubidium: Autoreplace started working finally. But it took ages and the trains passed the depots a lot of times. Does the game wait with replacing until the service interval kicks in or something? 21:39:38 *** amkoroew1 [~Heinz@p5B1024DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:30 <Rubidium> if the vehicles are normally serviced regularly, yes 21:41:43 <xiong> wargh, Try, in the vehicles list, Send for maintenance. They'll all go at once. 21:43:31 <xiong> I'll tell you what I want: Manual renew, er, autoreplacerenew, er... 21:44:13 <CIA-11> OpenTTD: yexo * r22075 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#4501]: newgrfs with invalid multi-tile houses could cause a valid 1x1 house following it to be seen as multi-tile, causing crashes 21:44:36 <wargh> xiong: That worked perfectly. Thanks 21:45:02 <xiong> That is, NARS contains different models for different years of the same engine; and these are significant. A wood-burning, 1849 American is not the same as a Heavy2 American, not by a long shot. But I can't autoreplace one with the other. 21:45:09 <xiong> wargh, Cool! 21:46:20 <xiong> I can't autoreplace the same engine with the same engine; and the game sees both engines as the same, even though the old engine still has the old stats and capabilities. This happens with passenger cars, too. 21:48:21 <xiong> So, to upgrade from, say, a wood-burning American to a Heavy, I autoreplace to a Mogul, perhaps, and then back to American. This is not a terrible waste of cash since the brand-new Moguls sell for nearly what I paid for them. But it's messy, especially because whatever engine I swap in, is usually slower, less powerful, or less reliable than what I'm using... which is why I'm using whatever I'm using. 21:48:27 <wargh> I thought the trains would try and replace asap when I issued the order. Lesson learnt. But the Autorenew is still not working for me. It's set to on, -12 months and I have the funds. I have no breakdowns on but I have set the "Disable servicing when breakdowns are set to none" Off. 21:48:55 <xiong> wargh, Interval servicing is tricky. Where are your depots? 21:50:10 <wargh> Just before platforms 21:50:22 <wargh> In front might be a better word 21:50:50 <wargh> Trains pass them just before they enter platforms 21:50:52 <xiong> Okay. But I'm going to bet you're not forcing the depoting; it's permissive. So, you're relying on maint interval setting. What's the interval? 21:52:26 <wargh> No I'm not. I don't like the disruption in flow. So I set it to 800 days since they can't breakdown anyway. I know that this is a long time but eventually they should get renewed. But I've played for 25 years and the trains just kept getting older and older past their maximum age. 21:53:11 <wargh> That's why I tried autoreplace instead 21:54:35 <xiong> wargh, Dunno but I'll bet that if you check out an individual train, you'll see that it's not much more than 28 years old. 21:55:24 <xiong> To depot and autorenew, the train will have to reach the end of its life, then in the worst case, the end of its service interval. Then, it needs to find a depot *when* you have the cash. 21:56:47 <xiong> 800 days is about 2-1/2 years. And if you switch on timetabling, you may find that your trains are taking as long as a year to make a round trip -- even more on big maps. 21:56:49 <wargh> I probably should have given it a little more time since I set the interval so high. Even if I set it to renew 12 months before it got old. The cash was never a problem. 21:57:19 <xiong> Cash is usually not a problem ingame. Now, if I could just get openttd to pay my rent. 21:57:27 <wargh> I don't have any routes that take even near a year. :) 21:57:48 <wargh> That would be something. 21:58:15 <xiong> Well. These are the causes I've found. If you disable servicing with no breakdowns, there will be no interval depoting and no autorenew/autoreplace. 21:58:53 <xiong> If you have insufficient funds, no a/a. If the trains simply haven't come up to the end of their life *and* end of their interval, no a/a. 21:59:06 <xiong> And if the train cannot find a depot, no a/a. 21:59:41 <xiong> Remember, just because you can find a depot doesn't mean the YAPF train can find a depot. Sounds like that might not be an issue on your layout. 22:00:22 <xiong> Oh, and if you have *any* goto-depot order, anywhere in the order list, that train will never interval service. 22:00:43 * xiong thinks no breakdowns = no fun 22:00:59 <wargh> It shouldn't be as I thoguht of it before starting a new game with these settings. I don't use that kind of order. Probably I just didn't wait long enough 22:01:17 <xiong> Certainly, no breakdowns make it tougher to see when your trains aren't servicing regularly. 22:01:23 <wargh> I don't think I have used breakdowns since I played the original TTD 22:01:58 <wargh> It's a hassle when you have loads of trains on a single track. 22:02:12 <xiong> Where's the challenge, I say? With no breakdowns it's possible to build a near-perfect network; you can synchronize the movement of each train until it's just one big train going around. 22:02:32 <wargh> I like the challenge of trying to have as much traffic as possible through my networks before starting to add more tracks 22:02:49 <xiong> Breakdowns force you to be fault-tolerant. That's not much of a sophisticated statement but there it is. 22:03:17 <wargh> Yeah I understand the extra dimension it puts on your networking 22:04:06 <Regiovogel> uh, it's a bit late. time to go to bed. i'd like to thank you all for the nice evening 22:04:08 <xiong> I guess I link 'no breakdowns' to a certain style of programming in which errors are not anticipated or tolerated; there is no chance to recover from an error, etc. 22:04:14 <Regiovogel> good night! 22:04:19 <xiong> Regiovogel, Good morning! 22:04:20 <wargh> I guess I have a somewhat different playstyle compared to many ppl here. For example I use AI competition as they make it harder to build furhter into the game 22:04:41 <Regiovogel> doog morning? how late is it? ;) 22:04:56 <Regiovogel> err, good, not doog... (too late!) 22:05:13 <xiong> wargh, AI play is serious stuff. I didn't realize how tough until I beat several of them... and they came back. It's not actually possible to eliminate competition, I think. 22:05:17 <Regiovogel> my clock says it's 11 o'clock in the evening ;) 22:05:24 <Terkhen> good night Regiovogel 22:05:35 <xiong> Mine says 2:05 pm! 22:05:44 <Markk> 10:05 PM here. 22:05:45 <xiong> ... which for me, is morning. 22:06:13 <Regiovogel> uh, 2:05 pm would be nice. then it would be only three hours until i could code a bit more... 22:06:23 <xiong> In fact, /me thinks coffee. 22:08:21 <Regiovogel> so... good night everyone (or something like that :)) 22:08:28 *** Regiovogel [~Miranda@nrbg-4dbe2ade.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [] 22:08:31 <wargh> xiong: I never try to eliminate the AI. Or well, sometimes I don't build bridges over their roads so my trains sometimes crash their trucks. 22:09:13 <wargh> I want them to get money to build as much as possible. 22:09:43 <wargh> But sure I still build at some of the same industries 22:10:54 <wargh> And I always use default trainlenght, I guess that might not be usual, and only one train engine. 22:11:45 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B1024DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:19 <xiong> Hm. I have built tiny circles of track across roads heavily frequented by AI trucks and run single engines with no orders for the express purpose of crashing as many as possible. 22:13:02 <xiong> Do this far enough from town and there are no repercussions. :P 22:14:14 <xiong> On another note: I'm starting to find it easier to doze something and build again, rather than try to fix it. 22:15:17 <wargh> Yes is it, but it's no fun. :) 22:15:46 <wargh> I start with a basic rout, and then I add track/trains to it until it gets full 22:16:04 <wargh> And often the computer makes it hard to add new tracks 22:16:29 <wargh> So then I really need to start thinking how to rearrange my tracks on the space I already use 22:17:10 <wargh> This I find really fun and challenging and it's really satisfying when I get the traffic to flow smooth again 22:17:36 <wargh> This game can be played in so many ways so I guess we all find our own flavours and rules to play by. :) 22:18:58 <wargh> I just started playing OpenTTD. I used to play TTDpatch for several yeas a few years ago. So a few of the things that made it easier to build in ttd I didn't really like, like the posibility to build a bridge over and in the same dirrection as a road. I felt it made it to easy 22:21:01 <wargh> And when I randomise my maps I want them as hilly and ruff as possible, and with as much water as possible. To make it harder to build. :) 22:22:34 *** andythenorth [~andy@68.54.125.91.rb3.adsl.brightview.com] has left #openttd [] 22:23:11 <Rubidium> wargh: then disable building on slopes ;) 22:25:31 <wargh> That one I actually like. :) 22:25:36 <wargh> It was in TTDpatch also 22:26:47 <wargh> I guess I set my standard a bit after that patch. It can still get really hard sometimes even with the better building of tracks on openttd 22:29:31 *** TGYoshi [4da7286d@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:29:37 <wargh> I don't think I've used the option to build bridges over existing roads/railways. (for more than one square) 22:30:03 <wargh> Might be some exception somewhere that I haven't thought about when I build it 22:32:18 *** JOHN-SHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-67-115.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:00 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@98.125.166.178.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Goodbye, world...] 22:38:20 <xiong> Please tell me how to disable the prototype offers. I *never* accept them and they are quite distracting. 22:40:47 <valhalla2w> check the news settings dialog 22:42:37 * xiong looks 22:43:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:44:01 <xiong> Nope. Messages for new vehicles; but that's when they're in production. The prototype offers aren't presented as news or messages, you know, but in the form of an interactive dialog that you must dismiss with either Yes or No. 22:44:01 * dihedral greets the valhalla2w 22:44:45 <dihedral> xiong, it is offering you that vehicle for a year before other companies can access the vehicle 22:44:53 <dihedral> that is not a setting to be disabled! 22:44:54 <xiong> ... which is one reason I find them so distracting; another being that they pop up in the middle of the screen and obstruct my view, often aborting a tricky track placement. 22:45:22 <dihedral> what on earth is a 'tricky' track placement 22:45:41 <dihedral> you place a track in one of possible 4 directions! there is nothing tricky about it 22:46:21 <dihedral> sorry - i am being nasty again, i did not mean to :-) 22:48:29 <valhalla2w> hi dihedral 22:48:38 <dihedral> :-) 22:48:45 <valhalla2w> xiong: hm, strange, I thought there was a way to switch it off. sorry 22:48:48 *** valhalla2w is now known as valhallasw 22:49:48 <xiong> I don't know why these offers are made or why anyone would want them. I've heard that if you accept, then after the vehicle enters production it will be more reliable. I haven't found that. 22:49:52 <wargh> I would like an option that's somewhere in between "Vehicles expire" On/Off. Because I hate having old trains staying in my list forever but at the same time I don't switch old track for monoral/Maglev so I want to be able to keep using Asiastar forever. Sure I can have expire on until very late game and set it to never when only Asiastar is avaliable. 22:50:20 <wargh> But it still dissapeared in the autoreplace window at 2079 or something like that. :/ 22:50:26 <xiong> I've also heard that if you accept such an offer and then don't take advantage of it, you'll get fewer such in future. Haven't found that, either; I am always offered a prototype of every new vehicle. 22:51:36 <dihedral> is this a single player game? 22:54:23 <TruePikachu> xiong: RE offers from the company, I've seen that, if you accept an offer and do not utilize it, you will not recieve any new offers for 20 months 22:54:48 <TruePikachu> You have 12 months to utilize it 22:54:59 <dihedral> yay - now 2 experts have found eachother :-P 22:55:45 <Yexo> then after the vehicle enters production it will be more reliable. I haven't found that. <- the vehicle is less reliable in the first year 22:55:45 <TruePikachu> And, if you get it early, the reliability is reduce FOR THAT YEAR BEFORE OTHER COMPANIES CAN GET IT 22:55:47 <xiong> TruePikachu, I heard that. But it doesn't seem to work that way, sorry. 22:55:59 <Yexo> after a year it'll always have the same reliability, doesn't matter whether or not you accept the offer 22:55:59 <TruePikachu> Lol 22:56:29 <TruePikachu> And all these statements RE reliability are per normal sets - NewGRFs can change it all they want 22:56:34 <xiong> Also, I just don't see the point, again, sorry. 22:56:38 <dihedral> only ever trust the code - not what 'people' tell you 22:56:52 <dihedral> or trust the developers and others who know the code :-P 22:57:03 <TruePikachu> And I'm just quoting from the forums 22:57:05 <xiong> Well, there you go. I'm playing NARS and all sorts of funky road vehicle sets. These may just ignore whatever prototype action. 22:57:21 <xiong> I just want to turn it off. 22:57:24 <TruePikachu> NARSv2 will follow 22:57:44 <TruePikachu> eGRVTS also follows (name?) 22:57:46 <xiong> TruePikachu, Again, I'm very sorry; I don't like to contradict but not for me. 22:58:01 <TruePikachu> What are the parameters you're using on NARS? 22:58:17 <TruePikachu> I don't think they would mess it up, but just in case 22:58:26 <TruePikachu> Better yet, a savegame would be nice 22:58:31 <xiong> If I accept and don't use, I still get offers. If I don't accept, I still get offers. If I accept and use, I don't get any improvement -- not that I'm able to notice. No benefit whatever. 22:58:39 <TruePikachu> And what version of OpenTTD is this? 22:59:04 <wargh> Considering ppls different taste it's a miracle that ppl can play this game in multiplayer and found the settings to be satisfying. :) 22:59:14 <xiong> NARS 2.03; number of params: 0 22:59:30 <xiong> r21038 23:00:21 *** asilv [~as@h-62-142-160-55.joensuunelli.fi] has quit [Quit: asilv] 23:01:04 <xiong> TruePikachu, I could drag the community through a savegame but what's the point? If prototypes had, for me, all the advertised behavior, I still wouldn't want the offers made. No offense. I just don't see the point. The vehicles are useless; I wouldn't hazard them on the layout. This is a philosophical point, or anyway a playing style. 23:01:08 <TruePikachu> Latest nightly is r22070, see if you still have the problem there 23:01:19 *** zydeco [~zydeco@163.165.16.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: miscellaneous hardware exception error] 23:01:37 <TruePikachu> Savegames store more than just the map; they also save all (even hidden) settings. 23:01:46 <xiong> TruePikachu, Dunno if I'm up to downloading and installing all over again. Certainly not right now; I gotta go to work soon. 23:02:09 <TruePikachu> Well, just leave us with the savegame, and we'll take a look at it 23:02:14 <xiong> I know you're interested in why I'm not seeing what you're describing. 23:02:30 <xiong> Well, where do you want it? 23:02:31 <TruePikachu> Wait - have you modified the NewGRF list in-game? 23:02:40 <xiong> No. I don't do that. 23:02:52 <TruePikachu> xiong: You can just toss it up on the Forums 23:03:04 <TruePikachu> Make sure it's the right place 23:03:18 <xiong> I never change anything in a running game. Or, at least, I never did until Yexo mentioned the go-to-depot penalty. 23:03:24 <xiong> Where's the right place? 23:03:35 <TruePikachu> Probablly OpenTTD -> Bugs 23:03:54 <TruePikachu> Not the flyspray, though 23:04:04 <dihedral> ignore TruePika* all 23:04:07 <dihedral> jopes 23:04:25 <xiong> Ahhh! 23:04:29 * TruePikachu doesn't have the forums open right now 23:04:42 <xiong> Look, I don't even know how to write this up. 23:05:49 <xiong> Board index » OpenTTD » OpenTTD Problems 23:08:00 <TruePikachu> Say that you aren't getting behaviour from the manufacturers as indicated from http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=52714 (there is a description of the 20 months and such there) 23:08:20 <TruePikachu> From planetmaker, no less 23:09:16 <TruePikachu> Specifically, post http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=928185#p928185 23:09:33 <xiong> Ahhh! I've already picked a spot. 23:09:53 <TruePikachu> No, not for a spot 23:10:06 <TruePikachu> An overview of what you aren't getting 23:10:14 <TruePikachu> (in your game) 23:11:36 <TruePikachu> Yay for having bookmarked that one thread :D 23:16:15 <TruePikachu> Just read the backlog, and the thread I linked is coincidentially the polar opposite of your feature request here 23:16:40 <xiong> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=52714&p=930196#p930196 23:17:06 <xiong> Argh! 23:17:31 <Terkhen> good night 23:18:02 <xiong> Well, I'm not going to double-post. Anyway, I gotta hop in the shower and unstinky. People take note of that, you know. 23:19:07 <dihedral> good night Terkhen 23:21:16 <Wolf01> 'night 23:21:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host194-223-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:21:57 *** Chillosophy [Chillosoph@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 23:24:23 *** Adambean [AdamR@83.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:25:34 <TruePikachu> xiong: For future reference, there is an edit function in the tt-forums 23:26:18 <TruePikachu> I know of some forums that don't have such a function, so it is lucky that this one has it 23:27:31 <wargh> This game is dangerous. I've been stuck for 5 hours in a row. 23:28:01 <Markk> Mhm 23:28:09 <Markk> I've been playing it since 2005 now. 23:28:47 <wargh> I don't really know when I started but I've hand a break for maybe two years. 23:28:56 <Markk> :) 23:29:16 <Markk> That's nice when you rediscover things. 23:29:23 <ccfreak2k> Forums without the ability to edit your own posts are terrible forums. 23:29:28 <wargh> I was just to lazy to try and get ttdpatch to work when I upgraded my OS: :P 23:29:48 <ccfreak2k> There are also some forums (many?) that only allow you to edit your post if there aren't any other posts after it. 23:30:10 <Markk> That's quite common imo. 23:31:54 *** ecke [~ecke@188.75.128.2] has quit [Quit: more listen, more understand, more know] 23:33:58 <wargh> Mauve is a bad color to use for ones company. It's hard to see against the gray charts. :) 23:36:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DB02.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:14 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has joined #openttd 23:39:50 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-157-113.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:34 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:48 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 23:54:10 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2796.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:29 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:55:27 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has joined #openttd 23:55:38 *** afk [~Dre@92.30.213.148] has quit [] 23:58:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]