Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:21 <xQR> mh, a bit confusing that admin_password is not only setting the password but also controlling activation of the admin interface itself 00:01:39 <xQR> if no password is set it won't activate it, also don't even start the TCP listener 00:01:44 <xQR> imho this isn't obvious 00:02:07 <xQR> something like use_admin_interface = true | false would have been more transparent :) 00:02:11 <SmatZ> the same applies to rcon 00:02:25 <SmatZ> and other things 00:02:27 <SmatZ> like, ssh 00:02:29 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-213-49-111-177.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 00:03:02 <SmatZ> having admin interface run without password doesn't look secure :P 00:03:19 <xQR> it seems it wasn't even obvious to other devs, because the code still has a check for that specific case 00:03:25 <xQR> e.g. DEF_ADMIN_RECEIVE_COMMAND 00:03:37 <xQR> if (StrEmpty(_settings_client.network.admin_" target="_blank">client.network.admin_password) || strcmp(password, _settings_client.network.admin_" target="_blank">client.network.admin_password) != 0) 00:04:02 <glx> better safe than sorry :) 00:04:09 <xQR> hehe you got a point there :) 00:04:19 <Yexo> xQR: does strcmp handle NULL correctly? 00:04:31 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:48 <Yexo> StrEmpty does not only check for "", but also for NULL 00:04:59 <xQR> yeah that's the point of it 00:05:22 <xQR> and if that is already true it doesn't execute the strcmp anyway 00:05:29 <Yexo> the admin password could have been reset after the game was started 00:05:43 <xQR> so it doesn't matter whether strcmp would handle it correctly 00:05:53 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: lugo, murr4y, devilsadvocate 00:05:53 <Yexo> I doubt that removing the password will also shutdown the TCP listener immediately 00:06:08 <xQR> oh, removing the password while it is running - that would be an ugly thing to do :P 00:06:20 <Yexo> so if that check was not there it could crash if the password was removed after the TCP listener started 00:06:37 *** Netsplit over, joins: lugo, devilsadvocate, murr4y 00:06:44 <xQR> i wonder whether that case is really taken into account everywhere 00:06:51 <xQR> will try that later, playing around with the admin interface now anyway 00:10:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-84-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:30 *** Vero [~vero@web1.kylebk.co.cc] has left #openttd [*poof*] 00:26:43 <xQR> http://wiki.openttd.org/Admin_password <-- well i still mentioned it here, for people who are wondering about this like me before :P 00:27:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:33:56 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:31 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:58:47 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: lugo, murr4y, devilsadvocate, supermop 00:59:18 *** Netsplit over, joins: lugo, devilsadvocate, murr4y 01:13:39 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:53 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:30:05 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:32:56 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:18:48 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-15-68.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:25:59 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:36 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-148-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:37:40 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:640b:cb39:c240:4548] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:07:40 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@bas8-london14-1279480034.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [] 03:26:50 <supermop> who's around? 03:58:03 <Pikka> your mother 03:58:23 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d114-78-15-68.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:12 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:25:49 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 04:39:35 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:49:18 *** SquireJames5 [~SquireJam@67-61-80-82.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75C6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7682D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:16:24 *** SquireJames5 [~SquireJam@67-61-80-82.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:21:00 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 05:36:32 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:48:37 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 05:52:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 05:54:27 <Terkhen> good morning 05:56:58 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2DBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:06 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-55-245.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:00:24 <planetmaker> moin 06:02:08 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:14:34 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:16:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CE5B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 06:20:19 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-144-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C42A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:26:31 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-133-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:33:29 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:49:01 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:51:27 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:52:32 <Terkhen> heh, I never expected that someone would complain about the 64 tiles limit for trains 06:52:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:53:10 <Markk> Sometimes I can agree on that it's too short. :> 06:53:53 <Terkhen> really, when? 06:54:17 <Markk> When I'm building a hardcore oil-line. 06:54:40 <xQR> there will always be someone who wants to run a 2913920420394209342309423094x2913920420394209342309423094 map with 9999999 tiles trains - ofc in multiplayer with 5000 players 06:55:16 <Markk> Yeah...but around 100 or 128 tiles would be neat. 06:55:53 <Markk> Time to get ready for work. 06:56:01 <Markk> Have a nice day everyone. :) 07:03:02 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:18:33 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=939571#p939571 <-- he... *something* this person does goes terribly wrong somewhere 07:21:07 <Terkhen> :) 07:21:52 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 07:22:05 <Terkhen> if svn is in the path, I have no idea what might be wrong there 07:23:05 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs 07:25:29 <planetmaker> neither do I. But his last reply makes me wonder what knowledge he does have to actually properly answer questions targeted at further investigation 07:26:20 <planetmaker> or whether he actually does something (additional) he doesn't tell. 07:26:38 <planetmaker> like checking out the source and compiling the un-tar'ed source 07:26:58 <Terkhen> that is quite possible :) 07:31:44 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:36:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 07:59:44 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:23 *** ar3k [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:11:27 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 08:21:39 *** welterde [welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:52 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 08:49:45 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: http://neon-gaming.de/ - Infinite Variety] 08:53:53 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:11 *** ar3k [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:54:11 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 08:55:36 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-55-245.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:33:56 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-24-147.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:36:29 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-55-245.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:37:35 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:50 *** elmz_ [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:15 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:44:37 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:45:41 *** stevo32 [~stevo32@CPE0026f30ca738-CM0026f30ca735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 09:45:56 <stevo32> if i'm running a multiplayer server, is there any way i can raise the debt limit midgame? 09:47:34 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:34 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 09:53:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:53:43 <Chris_Booth> stevo32 I would say no since you can't do it in single player 09:57:29 <stevo32> thanks 10:04:08 <Wolf01> hello 10:19:02 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:19:14 *** welterde [welterde@thinkbase.srv.welterde.de] has joined #openttd 10:25:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.12.7.215] has joined #openttd 11:01:47 <Eddi|zuHause> you know what's annoying? on every autosave, while i'm holding the right mouse button, the map jumps to a random location... 11:02:13 <Eddi|zuHause> scrolling should be disabled during autosave... 11:02:21 <__ln__> Wolf01: 'night, hello 11:04:17 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:04:43 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: weirdy just lost the game. yup.] 11:05:13 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 11:05:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:06:19 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:06:31 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has joined #openttd 11:10:45 <DanMacK> Hey all 11:12:20 <orudge> 'lo DanMacK 11:12:23 * orudge reminds DanMacK about #tycoon ;) 11:15:41 <planetmaker> heya DanMacK 11:18:13 <Ammler> fedora user online? Does fedora have a command or option to install build dependencies, like suses: "zypper in source-install openttd" 11:21:35 <Ammler> -in 11:21:59 <__ln__> good question 11:22:14 <Ammler> also yum help install isn't really verbose :-) 11:26:48 <Ammler> found, yum-builddep 11:27:06 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:43 <__ln__> good answer 11:30:45 <DanMacK> heh 11:31:05 <Ammler> good __ln__ 11:31:26 <Ammler> or rather good google 11:35:07 *** Wasila [51b245a4@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:35:09 <Wasila> Hi 11:41:38 *** Wasila [51b245a4@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:42:59 *** [twisti] [~twisti@dyn-46.183.96.172.relaix.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:38 <[twisti]> hey, i want to download openTTD and put it on like a USB stick, is that possible ? or does it have to be 'installed' ? 11:44:20 <planetmaker> just unpacking the zip is sufficient 11:44:33 <planetmaker> mind that you, of course, need a set of base graphics then in the local data folder 11:45:15 <planetmaker> if using a usb install the assumption to find them in a global data folder might not hold ;-) 11:46:16 <Ammler> and you can have multiple openttd binaries at once, just rename them to like openttd.mac or openttd.lin, the rest should be independent 11:53:16 <[twisti]> hm 11:53:25 <[twisti]> could i put the gfx stuff in the same directory for it to work ? 11:53:41 <Yexo> create a directory data/ next to the binary 11:53:49 <[twisti]> that shopuld be doable 11:53:51 <Yexo> and don't forget to create openttd.cfg there too 11:54:01 <[twisti]> last one, is there any chance of this working on win98 at all ? 11:54:14 <Yexo> if you download the win9x binaries, yes 11:54:43 <[twisti]> oh whoops, didnt notice that i could, thank you 11:55:15 <planetmaker> it only shows you those binaries which match the OS announced by your browser 11:55:37 <planetmaker> so for a portable version you might indeed grab a few ;-) 11:55:45 <planetmaker> and do what Ammler suggested 11:55:57 <[twisti]> no, i saw the dropdown box, but i figured win32 only would have win64 as an alternative option so i didnt bother to click it ;) 11:56:18 <[twisti]> and its not to be portable, but for a friend with no pc knowledge and no internet 11:56:27 <[twisti]> so im trying to make it so he can just copy the folder 11:57:08 <planetmaker> ah 11:57:44 <planetmaker> well, he'll still be better off then, if you copy the data dir into C:\My Files\OpenTTD\data 11:57:52 <planetmaker> (or whatever the equivalent) 12:04:09 *** st-7138 [~st-7138@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 12:06:28 *** st-7138 [~st-7138@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:22 *** st-7236 [~st-7236@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 12:11:04 *** st-7236 [~st-7236@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [] 12:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... anyone got a clue where to teach cargodist to handl "no unloading and no loading" orders like waypoints? (i.e. no link should be established) 12:15:46 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 12:32:04 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:33 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:43:03 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:47:28 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 12:49:44 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:54:38 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:19 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9168:cd5:1874:372f] has joined #openttd 13:03:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:08:01 *** r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:18 <Belugas> hello 13:14:07 *** slaca [~slaca@catv-80-99-102-86.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 13:30:28 *** stevo32 [~stevo32@CPE0026f30ca738-CM0026f30ca735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #openttd [leaving...] 13:40:00 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:43:22 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm103.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 13:47:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:56:59 *** elz89 [~elz89@02d9dcea.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:59:12 <elz89> hi all 13:59:21 <elz89> new to this room 14:00:09 <__ln__> channel 14:00:45 <elz89> sorry channel 14:01:13 <elz89> i have been playing openttd for years and it is fantastic 14:02:52 <elz89> recently got into setting up a dedicated server using ubuntu server 32bit but i am running into a small problem 14:03:26 <elz89> i have got 1.0.4 installed using the instruction on the website for install but it is not the same as the 1.0.5 on my pc 14:05:47 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed. 1.0.4 is not compatiblewith 1.0.5 14:08:38 * planetmaker suggests to update all 1.0.x installations to 1.1.0 ;-) 14:11:29 *** elz89 [~elz89@02d9dcea.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:34 <supermop> a house can be made up of several sprites, 14:12:01 <supermop> and a house can choose a (sort of ) random sprite to use 14:12:17 <supermop> but it cannot raandomly pick from modular parts? 14:19:04 <planetmaker> you can combine sprites in a common bounding box... 14:20:37 <planetmaker> hm, you mean you want to randomly choose each tile? 14:21:08 <planetmaker> independently? 14:21:50 <planetmaker> that indeed cannot be made directly 14:22:24 <planetmaker> to my knowledge at least. You need to first combine and then pick a random configuration 14:24:03 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:26:07 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:23 *** ar3k [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 14:26:24 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 14:30:30 *** slaca [~slaca@catv-80-99-102-86.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:31 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:35:26 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 14:38:14 <DanMacK> Hey Lakie 14:38:25 <Lakie> Hi DanMacK 14:45:55 <supermop> yeah, thatss what i thought 14:46:39 <supermop> its rather choosing random capsules to plug on to a building 14:47:18 *** slaca [~slaca@catv-80-99-102-86.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #openttd 14:48:22 *** slaca [~slaca@catv-80-99-102-86.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [] 14:53:38 *** elz89 [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:54:14 <elz89> sorry about that, having some BB issues at new address 14:59:49 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:59:57 <ZirconiumX> hello 15:00:00 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:00:22 <ZirconiumX> tt-forums has it's own chess engine - with added non-support 15:00:36 <ZirconiumX> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53890 15:01:32 * ZirconiumX is waiting for unofficial - official support 15:03:32 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:03:35 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:03:54 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:03:57 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 15:04:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:04:37 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.201.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:38 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.201.28] has joined #openttd 15:06:00 <ZirconiumX> I assume everyone hates it 15:06:19 *** avdg_ [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:07:15 *** elz89_ [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:07:19 *** ^ekipS^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:07:21 *** SmatZ- [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:07:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ-] by ChanServ 15:07:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 15:07:42 *** TheMask96- [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:07:42 *** Markk_ [~mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 15:07:49 *** XeryusTC2 [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 15:09:15 *** Lachie_ [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 15:09:29 *** elz89 [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:29 *** elz89_ is now known as elz89 15:09:40 *** blathijs_ [matthijs@drsnuggles.stderr.nl] has joined #openttd 15:09:59 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 15:10:16 *** hoax__ [U2FsdGVkX1@dhcp-077-249-151-209.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:10:43 *** Rediz_ [~arstilj1@leka.hut.fi] has joined #openttd 15:10:49 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> kilo.oftc.net quits: JOHN-SHEPARD_, lasershock`, hoax_, XeryusTC, ^Spike^, Rediz, @SmatZ, Ruudjah, X-2, TheMask96, (+6 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 15:10:49 *** avdg_ is now known as avdg 15:10:49 *** ^ekipS^ is now known as ^Spike^ 15:14:04 * ZirconiumX wonders why reticulum.oftc.net kilo.oftc.net is such a popular quit 15:15:19 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:17:34 *** elz89 [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:17:49 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:21:17 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-149.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:21:31 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-149.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:21:56 *** elz89 [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:25:18 *** Markk_ is now known as Markk 15:26:07 *** lasershock [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:32:19 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:39:33 *** elz89 [~elz89@5add1f5c.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: elz89] 15:50:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C357.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:11:49 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:04 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:31:24 *** canis85 [~bbabcock@69.164.216.34] has joined #openttd 16:31:57 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@524B73C2.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:45:38 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.224.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:49 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.201.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:10 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 16:49:31 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@baud.org.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:55 *** [twisti] [~twisti@dyn-46.183.96.172.relaix.net] has quit [] 16:52:57 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:50 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2DBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:02:43 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:27:42 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33:15 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:33:37 <ZirconiumX> #openttd's resident geek has returned 17:36:56 <ZirconiumX> I must remember to give Mr. Aro a good kick up the backside; he's gone all quiet 17:39:18 <planetmaker> not really 17:40:05 * ZirconiumX takes back comment - he just hasn't told me he's got to r25 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22295 /trunk/src/lang/vietnamese.txt: 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi 17:46:39 <ZirconiumX> Ah - I see that the CIA has changed again 17:47:05 <ZirconiumX> next time we'll probably have a CIA-97857.87685 17:47:22 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B106DDC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:56 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@95-89-104-26-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:54:05 <IchGuckLive> Hi all from Germany 17:54:27 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff9ea.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:54:37 <IchGuckLive> Question ? If a Industrie Disapears shoudt i remove all tracks ? and plant trees ? 17:58:17 <xQR> if you can afford it fund a new one of the same time, so you don't waste the stuff you have already built there 18:00:22 *** kieran491 [~k_k@c211-28-220-61.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 18:00:55 <kieran491> Hi 18:01:27 <kieran491> Just wondering whats a good server software for openttd if i would like to host my own dedicated server? 18:02:09 <planetmaker> the best one is the one you're happy with and know how to handle 18:02:34 <kieran491> planetmaker: well not knowing any options at the moment what could you recommend? 18:03:00 <planetmaker> well, in order to start an openttd server you only need openttd. That's it 18:03:14 <planetmaker> and of course a machine to run it on 18:03:14 <IchGuckLive> xQR: its a Oilwell 18:03:54 <kieran491> I would like something that i could set rules and custom code and even a bot for chat if possible any recommendations? 18:04:19 <planetmaker> all goal servers are closed source 18:04:46 <planetmaker> and they're not running default openttd, but custom versions 18:04:47 <xQR> though this will change :P 18:05:04 <planetmaker> the coop servers (still) are wrapped by autopilot 18:05:32 <xQR> kieran491 if you want goal features and an irc bot you can help testing my software, it is used for the 6 n-ice.org servers you might have seen on the list 18:05:33 <planetmaker> but with 1.1.x you can now interface OpenTTD via the admin interface. But there exists so far no bot for it. Only two libraries which could help to interface 18:05:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:05:41 <planetmaker> one is written in java, the other in python 18:05:47 <xQR> patching openttd is not necessary 18:06:04 <kieran491> xQR: ? 18:06:10 <xQR> but i'd suggest you first try to get vanilla openttd server to run 18:06:12 <planetmaker> nor recommended 18:06:15 <xQR> before you start with extending it 18:06:57 <kieran491> xQR: i have had a vanila server up and running before no biggy 18:07:13 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@95-89-104-26-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 18:07:25 <xQR> ah good 18:07:28 <xQR> windows or linux? 18:07:50 <kieran491> It was windows but now i have my hands on a dedicated linux server 18:08:00 <xQR> ok 18:08:11 <xQR> let's continue the conversation in private then 18:08:19 <kieran491> kk 18:12:56 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:20:30 *** ZirconiumX [521f58c1@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:22:25 *** Chillosophy^ [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:24:44 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:26:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-160-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:28:42 *** JOHN-SHEPARD_ [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-149.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 18:29:23 *** blathijs_ is now known as blathijs 18:32:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-74-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:45 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db18f0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:37:11 *** Intexon_ [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:39:54 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-172-149.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:10 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 19:06:16 *** DanMacK [~DanMacK@206.191.69.149] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 19:16:41 <andythenorth> suggestions forum 19:16:42 <andythenorth> meh 19:25:13 <supermop> yeah? 19:25:21 <supermop> what now? 19:27:38 *** JVassie [~James@92.27.149.231] has joined #openttd 19:30:29 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@baud.org.uk] has joined #openttd 19:31:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-101-103.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:43:20 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 19:43:29 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:44 <supermop> ship pathfinging? 19:49:03 <supermop> is that what you were looking at in suggestions? 19:52:13 * Zuu has not yet reached the suggestions forum today and thinks that watching an episode on TV is a better idea. 19:52:55 <supermop> fair enough 19:53:09 <andythenorth> ship pathfinding suggestion is not so tragic 19:53:14 <supermop> andy mentioned exasperation wrt suggestions 19:53:14 <andythenorth> it could be made interesting + fun 19:53:20 <supermop> yeah 19:53:39 <supermop> at least if it allow a good way to preserve shipping lanes 19:54:12 <andythenorth> but I think it could also take some of the advantages away from ships 19:54:25 <andythenorth> i.e. they are quite 'fire and forget' 19:54:37 <andythenorth> except when a lot of bouys are needed :( 19:54:44 <supermop> yeah 19:55:15 <supermop> if the 'lane' was like a bouy though, not needed, but helpful for pathfinding 19:55:37 <supermop> so a water taxi across a bay would not need bother with one 19:55:44 <supermop> speaking of which 19:55:55 <supermop> would a water taxi have any place in fish? 19:56:05 <Wolf01> I would like a system to link buoys, so you only have to assign a "route" to a ship 19:56:06 <andythenorth> picture? 19:56:25 <andythenorth> Wolf01: shared orders :P 19:56:54 <supermop> http://de.academic.ru/pictures/dewiki/99/copenhagen_water_taxi.jpg 19:57:18 <supermop> http://www.ikeafans.com/images/wordpress/uploads/2009/07/ikea-water-taxi-oleary.jpg 19:57:39 <supermop> the latter runs between wall street and the ikea in rehook 19:58:02 <andythenorth> supermop: basically a small ferry 19:58:09 <supermop> yeah 19:58:13 <andythenorth> the utility vessel effectively does that 19:58:18 <andythenorth> although it looks a little different 19:58:20 <supermop> sort of fast catamaran 19:58:23 <andythenorth> yes 19:58:29 <andythenorth> there will be more small ferries in FISH 19:58:35 <andythenorth> it would be quite easy to add....too many :P 19:59:03 <supermop> they also just dock by nudging up to a little jetty and gunning the engine 19:59:45 <supermop> anyway, i often have citits on lakes where that would be usefull 20:00:09 <supermop> although i would like newports, so i can get a jetty without the huge catchment of the dock 20:00:36 <supermop> small boats cant keep up with the huge numbers an urban dock will produce 20:01:27 <supermop> so I started drawing modules for an interpretation of the nakagin capsule tower laast night 20:02:17 <Zuu> supermop: I like the word "seabus" over "seataxi" unless it really is a taxi that would operate without a schedule. 20:02:43 <supermop> it works like a bus, 20:02:55 <Zuu> In Vancouver they call it a seabus. 20:03:02 <supermop> but in nyc and copenhagen they are branded as watertaxis 20:03:10 <andythenorth> ach 20:03:13 <andythenorth> it's a small ferry :P 20:03:34 <andythenorth> and yes, small ferries are needed 20:03:36 <supermop> i dont know what the companies that make them call them 20:03:46 <andythenorth> ....also very large ferries are needed 20:03:52 <Zuu> Though the sea busses in Vancouver were quite a bit larger than those. 20:04:39 <supermop> ok lets have watertaxis, seabusses, and pondrickshaws 20:05:09 <planetmaker> and sharks and wild deer 20:05:35 <planetmaker> and whales. There are whale riders after all ;-) 20:05:48 <supermop> heh, 20:05:57 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:58 <supermop> i wonder if aanyone has made a rickshaw 20:06:23 <andythenorth> I considered a three wheel 20:06:34 <andythenorth> I was going to make an Indian set 20:06:38 <andythenorth> for use in tropic 20:06:51 <andythenorth> which could have included autos and three wheelers 20:07:27 <supermop> andy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrjorgen/2373845/in/photostream/ 20:07:37 <supermop> i want one of those in real life 20:08:54 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2DBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:07 <andythenorth> supermop: I have one of these: http://2.imimg.com/data2/FW/JV/HELLOTD-2010692/bajaj-gc-1000-250x250.jpg 20:10:11 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:10:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:03 <supermop> you drive one? 20:16:12 <supermop> or put one in heqs? 20:18:23 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:18:24 <andythenorth> I drive one 20:18:28 <andythenorth> for entertainment 20:18:39 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:20:32 <supermop> tsukiji periodically bans tourists from the market due to some drunk dutch guys who stole a bunch of those little things a took them for a joyride 20:21:37 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm103.epsilon84.maxonline.com.sg] has left #openttd [] 20:27:19 <SmatZ-> those dutchies! 20:32:54 <__ln__> speaking of dutchies, does someone know why a TomTom maps of California contain quite a few railways that simply aren't there? and no sign of there ever having been a railway. 20:33:04 <__ln__> -a 20:34:02 <SmatZ-> why not? 20:34:09 <SmatZ-> to confuse enemies? 20:41:11 *** JOHNSHEPARD [~JOHN-SHEP@ALyon-158-1-125-245.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:42:19 <__ln__> that would be a good theory in some other country, but i don't think it applies to US 20:44:04 <__ln__> because it is not mostly within artillery range from another country or the sea. 20:44:52 <Twerkhoven[L]> do those same railways appear on google maps? 20:45:12 <Twerkhoven[L]> if i recall correctly, tomtom uses teleatlas for their maps, also used by google maps 20:45:29 *** Dreamxtreme [~Dre@92.18.201.28] has joined #openttd 20:45:44 <__ln__> let's see... too bad i didn't write down where exactly did i encounter such. 20:46:16 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 20:48:31 <frosch123> how could a photo from a satellite make up a railway? are you sure it weren't some aliens stealing the steel? 20:48:57 <Twerkhoven[L]> might be someone putting on fake user-corrections on the tomtom-map corrections thing 20:49:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: "He who controls the past commands the future, He who commands the future, conquers the past." - Kane] 20:51:54 <__ln__> i guess that's possible but i don't see what would be the point 20:52:17 <Twerkhoven[L]> some people just like messing around 20:52:31 <Twerkhoven[L]> make sure you have your settings set to only accept corrections either by tomtom or approved by tomtom 20:52:34 <Twerkhoven[L]> and not just anyone 20:55:51 <__ln__> could there have been railways that were destructed decades ago, and replaced with more corn field? 20:57:03 <SmatZ-> yay, czech constitutional court cancelled the "data retention" EU law as non-constitutional :) 20:59:28 <Maarten> Which railways are we talking about? Just wondering, since I live in California :) 21:01:37 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 21:02:59 <frosch123> SmatZ-: yeah, so did the german one :) 21:03:23 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:03:55 <SmatZ-> frosch123: our constitutional court often explains its decision based on German laws / decisions :) 21:04:14 <frosch123> what? that sounds weird 21:04:32 <SmatZ-> well, you have longer history of democracy 21:04:54 *** canis85 [~bbabcock@69.164.216.34] has left #openttd [] 21:05:16 * andythenorth is baffled by station ground sprite 21:05:28 <andythenorth> seems I need to add an offset to sprite number 21:05:32 <andythenorth> but spec doesn't say what 21:06:59 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:11:19 *** Markavian [~Markavian@121.101.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:12:00 <__ln__> Maarten: i don't remember exactly where, but i think it was somewhere more or less near Merced. huge corn/other fields. 21:12:02 *** welshdragon [~dragon@anubis.millsie.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 21:14:51 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-020-212.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: http://neon-gaming.de/ - Infinite Variety] 21:15:44 *** Lachie_ is now known as Lachie 21:17:24 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:53 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-088-065-235-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:37 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff9ea.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:59 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.224.180.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:54 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:37:28 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:42:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C357.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:54 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 21:45:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:45:32 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:35 <Wolf01> 'night 21:50:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host32-229-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:54:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:57:22 <Terkhen> good night 22:09:55 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:13:22 *** st-13176 [~st-13176@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 22:13:32 *** st-13176 [~st-13176@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [] 22:14:09 *** st-13189 [~st-13189@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 22:15:44 *** kieran491 [~k_k@c211-28-220-61.brasd3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 22:15:55 *** st-13189 [~st-13189@a89-154-147-132.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [] 22:15:55 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:55 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:21 *** ar3k [~ident@ebm170.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 22:17:25 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 22:20:46 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe35dc00-187.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:21:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:44 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:37:02 *** Chillosophy^ [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 22:38:07 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db18f0e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:41:32 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:45:56 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:48:49 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:25 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-79-208.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:19 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:35 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:26:50 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:32:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:40:03 *** krinn [~krinn@98.227.101-84.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #openttd 23:40:30 <krinn> hi, i have trouble with bananas 23:41:08 <krinn> second file i have upload i edit the first upload and add the new file in it, but it keep version as the previous one 23:41:38 <krinn> and now trying to upload a new one i then try create another upload, but this time it fail and complain with an error about the application itself 23:42:30 <krinn> eheh i knew it wasn't the right time to ask a question 23:48:09 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2DBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:52:10 <__ln__> most certainly not 23:59:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]