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00:00:15 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.76.62] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:08:25 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has joined #openttd 00:13:14 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC54A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:23:37 <Wolf01> 'night 00:23:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:32:09 *** LordAro|2 [~kvirc@host86-167-85-124.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:38:50 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:49 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:00:16 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:23 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 01:16:39 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has quit [Remote host closed the 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:49 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 05:45:40 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 05:50:58 <Terkhen> good morning 05:55:46 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 05:58:20 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [] 06:02:30 *** Mazur [~mazur@53550C29.cm-6-6a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:05:41 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:15 <planetmaker> moin 06:20:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22322 /trunk/src/console_cmds.cpp: -Fix [FS#4593]: Obey the law of conservation of parantheses in the console help 06:24:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:27:15 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:29:32 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 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07:00:31 <LordAro> 12:06:47 <@Terkhen> hmm... I was looking for the line that LordAro pasted, but of course that is not present :) <- which line was it you wanted? 07:02:10 <LordAro> 11:46:36 <@planetmaker> LordAro: upgrading your bash won't solve a thing. Certainly <- definitely: "...since /bin/sh on Ubuntu is dash, not bash" 07:02:17 <LordAro> whatever dash is... :) 07:04:39 <Terkhen> I don't remember that 07:04:50 <Terkhen> something about REPO_VERSION 07:05:31 <planetmaker> LordAro: that exactly might be the issue. dash syntax might be (slightly) different from bash syntax 07:06:14 <LordAro> Terkhen: this? REPO_REVISION := $(shell let tmp=$(shell $(HG) id -n | cut -d+ -f1)+96; echo $$tmp) 07:06:26 <Terkhen> probably 07:07:02 <planetmaker> REPO_REVISION := $(shell let x=`$(HG) id -n | cut -d+ -f1`+96; echo $$x) <-- this syntax works here 07:07:22 <planetmaker> mind that you use two times $(shell which might be an issue 07:07:22 <LordAro> planetmaker: yes, in fact the ubuntu forums thread i'm looking at tells me to use #! /bin/bash instead - will that be ok at openttdcoop? 07:07:54 <planetmaker> it will. But I wonder whether it works on mingw 07:08:10 <LordAro> if i've got bash installed :) 07:08:24 <planetmaker> afaik mingw just calls it sh, though 07:08:29 <LordAro> but i don't care about that, as long as it works on opentdcoop, thats fine for me 07:09:54 <LordAro> works :) 07:10:15 <peter1138> Oh dear. Just applied MJP's zoom64 patch. 07:10:20 <peter1138> Boom, crashed :p 07:10:42 <dihedral> morning 07:11:05 <LordAro> planetmaker: do you know if ottdcoop supports the -i parameter of sed? 07:11:45 <planetmaker> not by heart. I recon yes, though 07:12:07 <planetmaker> but why, if you can just re-use the existing makefile code? 07:12:43 <planetmaker> but it seems to be not a gnu-specific extension, so it should be fine 07:16:08 <LordAro> i don't understand the existing makefile code :P 07:28:40 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:39:47 <LordAro> how long does firs normally take to compile? i copied the relavent bits into my makefile, and its been about five mins now :L 07:41:13 <Terkhen> LordAro: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-rv/repository/entry/docs/readme.ptxt#L142 07:43:15 <LordAro> i'm on ubuntu right now :P 07:43:36 <LordAro> do you think its got itself into an infinite loop? 07:48:02 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC54A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:53:52 <Alberth> 7 seconds at my system 07:55:34 <Alberth> http://www.fpaste.org/cNCw/ <-- output of the firs build 07:57:35 <Terkhen> LordAro: modified firs? 07:58:14 <LordAro> don't worry, i think it was some sort of infinite loop 07:58:22 <LordAro> commit coming up shortly :) 08:03:19 <LordAro> (mind-freeze) what do you call the file-endings? (e.g. *.txt or whatever) 08:04:36 <LordAro> lol, file extensions :) 08:05:34 <Alberth> technically, filename extensions :) 08:10:32 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 08:17:14 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebl77.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:49:30 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:50:35 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: pzzzzzzzzzzz] 08:50:52 *** X-2 [~X-2@5ED662EB.cm-7-7b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:02:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.188] has joined #openttd 09:12:37 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #openttd 09:14:52 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:16:10 <LordAro> ok, this line "$(_V) $(shell $(HG) archive -X glob:.* -X path:Makefile $(BUNDLE_NAME))" is stopping .txt files (generated on make) being included how can i fix this? 09:18:35 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd 09:18:48 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:13 <Alberth> do you know what BUNDLE_NAME is ? 09:21:30 <Alberth> run the command manually, and see what it says 09:22:24 <Alberth> ie hg archive -X glob:.* -X path:Makefile $BUNDLE_NAME <-- but you may want to replace $... by the contents of BUNDLE_NAME 09:22:48 <Alberth> the * looks fishy 09:24:14 <Alberth> gtg, good luck 09:24:17 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 09:24:31 <LordAro> BUNDLE_NAME := $(FILENAME)-$(VERSION_STRING) 09:24:45 <LordAro> damnation 09:25:03 <LordAro> anyone else there? :) 09:25:13 <dihedral> no 09:25:18 <planetmaker> make _V= also helps 09:25:19 <LordAro> fine 09:25:31 <dihedral> _V? 09:25:38 <planetmaker> yes 09:25:38 <LordAro> @ 09:26:07 <planetmaker> dihedral, setting it to "" will make show every line. Default _V=@ 09:26:17 <planetmaker> which will hide all output unless echo is used 09:26:29 <dihedral> ah :-) 09:26:35 <planetmaker> for debugging _V= is quite recommended 09:26:39 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 09:26:39 *** George is now known as Guest2069 09:26:39 *** George|2 is now known as George 09:26:44 <LordAro> i have an idea... hang on 09:31:54 *** Guest2069 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:32:42 <SmatZ> make VERBOSE=1 ? 09:33:19 <LordAro> my fix worked :) (see #openttdcoop.devzone ) 09:35:12 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-86-17.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:47:36 *** aber [~Adium@gb049.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has left #openttd [] 10:37:17 *** Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [] 10:57:46 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 11:05:03 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:10:14 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-126-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:12:37 <__ln__> http://www.google.com/ 11:13:21 <flitz> hi openttd 11:14:22 <blathijs> __ln__: Is that a preemptive answer for stupid questions? ;-p 11:14:25 <blathijs> hi flitz! 11:15:19 <__ln__> blathijs: it serves that purpose too 11:19:32 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:20:15 <Wolf01> hello 11:22:16 <planetmaker> blathijs, did you look at it? ;-) 11:22:51 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.76.62] has joined #openttd 11:25:01 <flitz> hi wolf 11:28:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:30:36 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:37:16 <blathijs> planetmaker: Heh, I didn't before :-) 11:38:13 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 11:40:36 <blathijs> planetmaker: Ah, nice :-) 11:44:11 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EF6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:48:51 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 11:55:58 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:14 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:56:16 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 12:04:38 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:03 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-013-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:32 <Ammler> blathijs: is debian packaging able to make package for different debian versions with same dsc? 12:20:12 <blathijs> Ammler: There can't be any differences, then 12:20:27 <blathijs> Ammler: But you can compile the same DSC on multiple debian versions? 12:20:58 <Ammler> e.q. python3-dev is anly availalbe on 6.0 12:21:21 <Ammler> how do you make the rule so the same dsc works also for 5.0? 12:21:42 <blathijs> Ammler: It mostly depends on the dependencies 12:22:10 <blathijs> Ammler: If a package's (build)-dependencies are available, you can build the dsc 12:22:35 <blathijs> Ammler: The resulting dependencies of the binary package might be different then, because the versions in dependencies are often autodetected 12:23:26 <Ammler> well, in this case, it is a subpackage needed for debian 6 only 12:23:40 <Ammler> if no python3 is available don't make that subpackage 12:24:18 <blathijs> brb, lunch 12:28:26 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EF6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:31:53 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:3c09:d2f5:92d9:8438] has joined #openttd 12:31:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:33:42 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:36:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:38:33 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:50 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:38:51 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 12:45:37 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:01 *** Regiovogel [~Miranda@nrbg-4d077cb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:11 <Regiovogel> hi guys! 12:46:25 <planetmaker> hi 12:47:01 <Regiovogel> a quick question regarding delivering of cargos... 12:47:41 <Regiovogel> if i have a station between two industries and the cargo is accepted by both, which industry gets it? the nearest one? 12:48:25 <Yexo> I think the one nearest to the station sign 12:50:00 <Regiovogel> and there is no chance to distribute it to all industries in the catchment area? 12:50:28 <Regiovogel> would be quite nice in this situation i'm having here :) 12:50:51 <planetmaker> there is. Overload the first industry 12:51:03 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-86-17.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [] 12:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> use "transfer" at the main station, and then two small branch railways/industrial trams 12:52:10 <Regiovogel> overloading might not work because i'm playing with FIRS and delivering only small amounts at a time ;) 12:52:20 <confound> what eddi said 12:52:29 <Regiovogel> well, it's already an industrial tram, so... 12:52:36 <planetmaker> also... catchment area acceptance != catchment area delievery to station 12:52:42 <planetmaker> so which catchment area? ;-) 12:52:45 <confound> a truck, then. whatever 12:53:06 <planetmaker> or use orders like pickup A, deliver B, pickup A, deliver C 12:53:11 <Regiovogel> i wasn't aware there are different catchment areas ;) 12:53:18 <planetmaker> split your delivery station to two 12:53:28 <Regiovogel> what would be the difference between them? 12:54:03 <planetmaker> acceptance: around station tiles according to station type 12:54:24 <planetmaker> delivery to station: rectangle around two most distant station tiles 12:54:49 <Regiovogel> i think i'll give up the tram route and replace it with a train route and then distribute it with short tram routes... should work well 12:55:19 <Regiovogel> aah, okay. thanks 13:00:18 <blathijs> Ammler: This subpackage, is it not required on 6.0, or is it impossible to build, because of the lack of python3? 13:09:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:10:34 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:10:47 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:19 <Ammler> blathijs: opposite, there is no python3-dev for 5.0, with rpm you just make %if %{debian_version} >=6... something like that not possible with deb, right? 13:14:01 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [] 13:15:09 <Ammler> there is currently no such thing in openttd 13:16:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: can you say "it's recommended" instead of "it's required", so it will be skipped if it's not available? 13:21:22 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: dunno 13:22:00 <Ammler> well, it is not really necesssary we just had a discussion about rpm/dep specs and were wondering about that 13:22:20 <Ammler> the guy does now make 2 packages, von for 5 and one for 6 13:23:51 <Ammler> it is just not the usual way on the obs, there you make one spec for every supported version 13:32:17 <blathijs> Ammler: Usually on Debian, everything is uploaded to unstable and then migratest trhough testing to stable, so this issue isn't really relevant in normal Debian packages 13:32:59 <blathijs> Ammler: if a package is every compiled specifically for testing or stable, it's because there are backported changes (security fixes), so the source package is different anyway 13:33:40 <Ammler> blathijs: of course it will be build seperately, but rpm can do that with same spec 13:33:56 <Ammler> debian needs in such cases a modified dsc 13:34:29 <blathijs> Ammler: Yes, but I'm saying that normally, the actual source is different anyway, so there's no problem 13:34:57 <blathijs> Ammler: But I'm still trying to find out your actual problem: Is the package irrelevant without python3-dev, or just imposible without it, or? 13:35:10 <Ammler> well, it is a problem if you like to maintain the build script from upstream 13:35:17 <Ammler> you need to supply both versions 13:35:44 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db19d15.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:36:13 <Ammler> the subpackage is irrelevant and not needed without python3 13:36:38 <blathijs> What is it? Python3 bindings or something? 13:36:54 <blathijs> Is there a python2 version of the same package? 13:37:27 <Ammler> https://build.opensuse.org/package/files?package=scalaris-svn-bindings&project=home%3Atschuett 13:41:18 <blathijs> Hmm... 13:41:31 <Belugas> hello 13:43:32 <blathijs> Ammler: I'm poking #debian-devel about this :-) 13:44:38 <Ammler> blathijs: this dcs now works with debain 6 only, how would you modify it to use for both at same time? 13:45:44 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:05 <blathijs> Ammler: I'm not sure. I think it needs to have an optional build dependency to make it work 13:46:32 <Ammler> hehe, someone just meant, the dsc is autogenerated ususally 13:46:54 <blathijs> huh? 13:47:07 <blathijs> "meant" looks wrong in that sentence :-) 13:47:42 *** mikegrb_ is now known as mikegrb 13:49:42 <Ammler> "claims"? 13:50:23 <Ammler> or predicate, dunno 13:50:26 <blathijs> Ammler: So the problem went away? 13:50:59 <planetmaker> hi Belugas 13:51:00 <Ammler> no, is that true? 13:51:14 <Ammler> you don't need a dsc file for openttd? 13:51:22 <Belugas> mister planetmaker :) hello my friend 13:52:00 <planetmaker> :-) 13:52:10 * planetmaker looks forward to the weekend. Will be soon-ish :-) 13:59:23 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@188.123.106.105] has joined #openttd 14:03:51 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e061cc4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:05:57 <Belugas> quite 14:11:45 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:11:48 <flitz> template replacement becomes more and more of a project the more I work on it 14:12:00 <flitz> and that without adding new features so far 14:12:48 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:34 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:19:09 <dihedral> "[project] becomes more and more of a project the more I work on it" <- is that not a given? 14:20:37 <flitz> hm yes, but for me its usually because of other reasons :) 14:21:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:26:00 <flitz> technical question: I have a struct TemplateVehicle that has only data members and functions which are also present in either Vehicle or Train, that should enable me to use commands like CmdMoveRailVehicle on it, right ? 14:26:26 <flitz> I mean, by doing a pointer cast from *TemplateVehicle to *Train or *vehicle first 14:33:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:35:00 *** Cozzie [~Cozzie@220-244-173-65.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:40:14 <Yexo> flitz: such a cast is only possible if TemplateVehicle is a subclass of Train (or Vehicle in the second case) 14:41:31 <flitz> that would contradict the purpose of my struct because I wanted to abstract from a lot of things that Vehicle (or Train respectively) is using but still use some of those related functions 14:41:50 <Cozzie> hi guys =) 14:41:57 <flitz> so, this means a re-write of those functions for my own struct ? 14:42:01 <flitz> hi cozzie 14:42:25 <Yexo> flitz: you could make those functions template functions 14:43:25 <Yexo> why is it a problem to make TemplateVehicle a subclass of Vehicle (or the other way around)? 14:45:28 <flitz> With the templatevehicle I just wanted to keep it slim because I don't need a lot of things that Vehicle has, right now TemplateVehicle only derives from BaseVehicle, but I could maybe put it inbetween the inheritance of BaseVehicle and GroundVehicle 14:46:10 <flitz> or just use normal Vehicles instead of a dedicated structure, which would add some bloat, though I don't know if that would ever hurt 14:46:22 <Yexo> if GroundVehicle inherits from TemplateVehicle, you could modify those functions to accept TemplateVehicle* instead of Vehicle* and it should just work 14:47:03 <Yexo> what is the point of TemplateVehicle? 14:47:43 <flitz> from this thread: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52972 14:48:36 <Yexo> ah, I see 14:48:47 <flitz> the number of templates in any savegame should be about the same magnitude as the number of groups I would guess 14:49:08 <flitz> so, maybe just using Train instead of TemplateVehicle would be ok, but idk 14:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: http://www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/2177.jpg <-- that's probably something for HEQS (around 1940) 14:49:49 <Yexo> is TemplateVehicle only one part of the template (like Vehicle) or is it the complete template (so all parts in one struct)? 14:50:39 <flitz> one part, I chain them up like the game does with vehicles already 14:51:01 <flitz> and use the pointer to the first engine as pointer to the whole template 14:51:19 <Yexo> ok, so just like vehicles 14:51:38 <Yexo> I guess I'd template CmdMoveRailVehicle 14:51:56 <Yexo> you'll need two different commands (as in, command ids), so a little wrapper around that template is necessary 14:52:34 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC54A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:00 <flitz> so I will call CmdMoveAnyVehicle which will check the type input value and will then call CmdMoveRailVehicle or CmdMoveTemplateVehicle ? 14:53:39 <Yexo> no, you call either CmdMoveRailVehicle or CmdMoveTemplateVehicle which are both wrappers around the real function CmdMoveAnyVehicle<T> 14:54:10 <flitz> or this way :) 14:54:29 <Yexo> unless you are storing the template vehicles in the vehicle pool, in which case you could detect the type at runtime 14:54:55 <Yexo> I just realized you're probably doing that, since you're making a subclass of BaseVehicle 14:55:01 <flitz> right now I have my own pool for templatevehicles 14:55:06 <Yexo> ah, ok :) 14:55:22 <flitz> but that doesn't necessarily need to stay that way ;) 14:55:35 <Yexo> in that case you definitely need a second command, since there is no way to determine at runtime whether a given id points to a TemplateVehicle or a Train 14:56:06 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:56:06 <flitz> what is the usual limit on trains in a game ? 500 ? 14:56:18 <Yexo> 500 is the default, you can change the setting up to 5000 14:56:26 <Yexo> but that is total number of trains, not vehicle parts 14:56:47 <planetmaker> per player also 14:56:52 <Yexo> 1000-1500 trains is about the limit in most multiplayer games, more and most CPUs won't be able to handle it 14:57:01 <flitz> hm, so having specified like 50 templates (as in full chains) which are trains themselves only with INVALID_TILE and DEFAULT_GROUP would make some kind of difference 14:57:07 <flitz> just performance-wise 14:57:16 <flitz> memory-performance 14:57:40 <Yexo> I doubt it'll make much of a performance impact 14:57:44 <planetmaker> well... the performance "loss" for vehicles occurs due to path finding 14:57:50 <planetmaker> memory is not an issue usually 14:58:05 <Yexo> try stopping all trains in a big savegame, you'll be able to notice the difference 14:58:13 *** BenW [~ben@braga.cuckoo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:18 <Yexo> which indicates that a stopped train takes much less cpu than a running one 14:58:24 <flitz> but the lookup for vehicle ids in the pool is linear, isn't it ? 14:58:30 <Yexo> yes 14:58:49 <Yexo> however there are several FOR_ALL_VEHICLES(v) loops in the code, which would have to skip TempalteVehicle (in most cases) 14:59:16 <flitz> increasing the pool by about 5-10% would mean some increase in those lookups through runtime 14:59:27 <flitz> idk how much of a difference that would make 14:59:39 <planetmaker> Please remind me: what was the reason agains a separate pool for templates? 14:59:58 <Yexo> sorry, lookup for Vehicle* (from VehicleID) is constant, not linear 15:00:02 <flitz> to be able to use the existing functions for trains, like CmdMoveRailVehicle 15:00:04 * Yexo should pay more attention 15:00:17 <flitz> ah, constant is good 15:00:31 <planetmaker> hm... isn't it just possible to have two vehicle pools? 15:00:46 <Yexo> sure, but that means you are already creating a second pool :) 15:01:06 <planetmaker> yes, that's what I'm asking, what reasons are there against that 15:01:27 <flitz> ah, I forgot that vehicle and the likes also inherit from poolitem 15:01:39 <Yexo> nothing really, but there is also nothing wrong with adding them to the existing vehicle pool 15:01:54 <flitz> so I don't even need to specified in which pool the lookup needs to be done 15:02:18 <planetmaker> hm... yeah, probably the disaster or effect vehicles are skipped in most cases anyway, too 15:02:26 <Yexo> yes 15:02:35 <Yexo> and non-primary parts in several cases too 15:02:51 <planetmaker> yep, point taken :-) 15:02:54 <flitz> if I just use Train instead of TemplateVehicle but store them in their own pool, I wouldn't need to change anything to use CmdMoveRailVehicle and the likes on my templates, right ? 15:03:31 <Yexo> you can't use train and store them in another pool, at least not easily 15:03:50 <flitz> *reviews his own code* 15:04:04 <flitz> true 15:04:53 <flitz> maybe I will just use Train and the usual vehicle pool then 15:05:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:07:04 <Yexo> flitz: what about something like this? http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/fix.diff 15:08:20 <Cozzie> wow im terrible at setting timetables =x 15:09:54 <flitz> Yexo: for this I would need to inherit BaseVehicle -> TemplateVehicle -> GroundVehicle in order to make this type-checkable at runtime ? 15:11:40 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:12:09 <Yexo> no, for this you don't need any type-checking at runtime at all 15:12:17 <Yexo> so you can inherit as you like 15:12:41 <Yexo> you just have to make sure that both Train and TemplateVehicle have the functions and variables used in CmdMoveAnyVehicle 15:13:05 <flitz> yep 15:13:46 <flitz> so this solution looks best, clean but still slim like intended 15:14:16 <flitz> I will need to check which commands I need to modify that way, I was intending to adopt some style from the depot-gui to use for template creation 15:14:37 <Yexo> how do you plan to draw a TemplateVehicle? 15:14:52 <flitz> on a matrix widget 15:15:10 <Yexo> yes, but how to get the graphics? 15:15:36 <flitz> I didn't check yet :> 15:15:56 <flitz> basically, like vehicles do, I just didn't look how they do it so far 15:16:36 <flitz> I though they had some kind of index into some kind of structure which maps available trains against used graphics sets or something like that 15:16:36 <Yexo> that'll be a lot of trouble 15:16:49 <Yexo> it's not quite as easy as that 15:16:56 <flitz> hm 15:17:11 <Yexo> well, not with newgrf vehicles at least 15:17:55 <Yexo> basically it'll come down to calling GetCustomEngineSprite(EngineID, Vehicle * (can be NULL), Direction) 15:18:20 <Yexo> however a wagon can modify it's graphics depending on which engine it's attached too, but you can't show those graphics in the template 15:18:47 <Yexo> which means a final vehicle will look different than the original template, despite having the same EngineIDs 15:19:20 <flitz> I should have informed myself better before starting 15:19:41 <Yexo> it's not a critical issue, but something to be aware of 15:20:15 <Yexo> I don't think there is a way around that problem without changes to the newgrf spec 15:23:20 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:32 <supermop> I'm freaking out! 15:23:59 <flitz> lets say, there are 50 template-chains defined by one player at any one point within the game 15:24:08 <flitz> each one of avg length of 12 vehicles 15:24:25 <flitz> sizeof(*Train) is 352 15:24:26 <Cozzie> it's not really useful to have a timetable for a 2 station route with 30 buses (and breakdowns on) is it? 15:24:57 <Yexo> breakdowns on and timetables don't really work well together imo 15:25:18 <Cozzie> yeah i realized 15:25:18 <flitz> makes 206kb of additional memory used for my template trains (if they are real Train*'s) 15:25:29 <Cozzie> thought i was making some mistakes heh 15:25:36 <flitz> seems not too bad 15:25:38 <Cozzie> cause another route with 3 trucks work very well 15:25:45 <flitz> if lookup time is constant anyways 15:26:35 <flitz> and I don't run into future problems because my TemplateVehicle structure is missing something important 15:27:15 <supermop> now i really need to practice my german 15:27:43 <flitz> yexo: am I missing something ? 15:27:49 <flitz> why, supermop 15:27:54 <Yexo> I don't think so 15:28:18 <Yexo> you'll have to take extra care so your template trains don't show up in the train list etc. 15:28:19 <flitz> then I will just use Train for simplicity :) thanks for the help 15:28:28 <flitz> yes 15:28:33 <supermop> its not just Lubs anymore 15:28:43 <supermop> Rams is coming too 15:29:21 <flitz> yexo: I could just derive from train and make my own pool to deal with that 15:29:54 <Yexo> no, because in that case you can't reuse CmdMoveRailVehicle and friends anymore 15:30:20 <Yexo> because those call Vehicle::Get() to get a vehicle pointer from a VehicleID 15:31:54 <flitz> has Train its own Get() method ? 15:33:08 <flitz> ah, its from poolitem 15:36:37 <flitz> "you'll have to take extra care so your template trains don't show up in the train list etc." <<-- then I guess, I could extend the subtype flag because it currently uses only 6 of its bits 15:37:54 *** BenW [~ben@braga.cuckoo.org] has joined #openttd 15:38:12 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has joined #openttd 15:40:21 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:43 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:42:06 <flitz> I need to go and buy some food, thanks for helping 15:42:09 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-126-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 15:46:27 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 15:51:53 *** Twerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:53:09 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:37 <dihedral> http://www.stickycomics.com/where-did-you-meet/ 16:08:54 *** Regiovogel [~Miranda@nrbg-4d077cb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:36 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:20:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:27:02 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:18 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db19d15.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 16:29:04 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:52 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.76.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:41 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.76.54] has joined #openttd 16:33:25 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:36:58 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 16:40:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd9e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 16:42:49 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:17 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:48 <Belugas> buwhahaha!!!! way to go planetmaker :D http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=54103 16:50:40 <Belugas> that is such a nice case of FEED-ME ;) 16:52:21 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:52:48 <supermop_> nice 16:56:57 <planetmaker> it very much is. But now I can always say "see here you lazy a**" 16:59:02 <__ln__> apropos, wouldn't ~/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD/data be a more appropriate place for data files? 17:01:01 <planetmaker> and for savegames? And screenshots? 17:02:35 <__ln__> not for those, obviously. 17:02:51 <planetmaker> which would mean to split up the OpenTTD folder 17:02:58 <__ln__> indeed. 17:03:15 <planetmaker> while it might make sense from the intention of those folders, I'd not fancy to split up these things 17:03:45 <planetmaker> it'd mean much extra code for those dirs... for no real gain 17:04:11 <planetmaker> and it'd be more difficult to just backup your whole OpenTTD stuff 17:04:28 <__ln__> valid arguments 17:05:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:07:18 <frosch123> planetmaker: i am unable to follow your download tutorial, there are no cute animals in the pictures 17:08:10 <planetmaker> oh, sorry ;-) 17:08:25 <planetmaker> I'm afraid I don't produce videos 17:08:42 <planetmaker> :-D 17:08:51 <frosch123> yeah, your support sucks :p 17:09:02 <planetmaker> :-) 17:09:37 <planetmaker> my vacuum cleaner is doing overtime to keep the sucking alive :-P 17:09:55 <frosch123> :s 17:10:30 <Terkhen> :D 17:11:34 * frosch123 anticipates a warning for poseidon by some forum moderator 17:12:46 <planetmaker> he well deserves it. Already for his poll which does not contain a single word 17:13:11 <frosch123> yeah, that's what i meant. are there more reasons? :o 17:13:51 <planetmaker> :-) maybe the posting I replied to. But being less intelligent than my kitchen table usually is not punishable 17:14:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> it'd mean much extra code for those dirs... for no real gain <-- i thought that code is already there 17:15:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: for a split of the data dir? 17:15:33 <planetmaker> I haven't looked, but I'd be surprised 17:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: for supporting "Application Support" dir 17:16:44 <planetmaker> and not being used? 17:16:55 <supermop_> i need to find a german tutor 17:17:07 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 11837 17:17:10 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by bjarni :: r11837 /trunk (config.lib src/fileio.cpp) (2008-01-13 17:45:29 UTC) 17:17:11 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Feature: [OSX] added "/Library/Application Support/OpenTTD" to the search paths (based on patch by pv2b) 17:17:13 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: It is possible to set this to something else setting shared-dir with config 17:17:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: This works on other OSes as well but it's off by default (and not really tested) 17:18:02 <planetmaker> interesting 17:18:17 <Ammler> not working with linux afaik 17:18:32 <planetmaker> that's why it's prefixed [OSX] 17:18:51 <Ammler> "...This works on other OSes..." 17:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "not [...] tested" 17:19:04 <planetmaker> "off by default" 17:19:11 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-134-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:12 <frosch123> "bjarni" 17:19:14 <Ammler> yeah, if you enable it of course :-P 17:19:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "[OSX]" 17:19:44 <__ln__> thank you Bjarni for implementing my suggestion three years before i suggested it. 17:21:08 <Ammler> linux default share could be e.g. /usr/share/openttd 17:21:44 <Ammler> and the packager could set it to /usr/local/share/openttd 17:21:56 <Ammler> games something 17:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: other way round?!? 17:22:26 <flitz> you want to bring openttd into some linux distro ? 17:22:29 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: no 17:22:47 <Ammler> /usr/local/games/openttd is default for local already 17:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> /local is for non-packaged stuff 17:23:17 <Ammler> but it would be nice, if your local build could also search in the distro install 17:23:59 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: this is additional to the data dir 17:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, now i see how you mean it. if /usr/share/openttd is already the data-dir, shared-dir may be /usr/local/share/openttd 17:25:28 <Ammler> yep 17:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and for non-packaged, it would be swapped 17:26:10 <Ammler> well, the default openttd path is something debianish with games 17:27:55 <Ammler> that is the reason, it is not enabled, as you would have 2 "default" shares already, for debian and the rest linux 17:28:44 <frosch123> someone played too much civilisation... a townname grf featuring "babylon", "constantinople" (and "istanbul") 17:32:15 <planetmaker> :-D 17:34:24 <flitz> can anyone play TOO MUCH civilization ? ;) 17:42:08 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 17:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i second that question :p 17:43:39 <supermop_> third 17:44:09 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:44:48 <andythenorth_> efening 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22323 /trunk/src/lang/ (norwegian_bokmal.txt norwegian_nynorsk.txt slovenian.txt): 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by 2rB 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_nynorsk - 41 changes by 2rB 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 2 changes by ntadej 17:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> g-ening 17:46:54 <Ruudjah> what happened with that opengl renderer? 17:46:57 <flitz> kreetings 17:47:07 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:47:43 <Ruudjah> wasnt there a fairly good opengl renderer patch? 17:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ruudjah: wasn't that horribly slow, because it was only optimised for multiple-of-8 sprite sizes? 17:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> or power-of-two even 17:49:01 <Ruudjah> iirc it beat the cpu renderer 17:49:08 <peter1138> "optimised" 17:49:28 <Ruudjah> at least at low zoom levels 17:49:31 <peter1138> i think there's some non-standard extension, but in general, that's an opengl limit :S 17:50:02 <peter1138> and yeah, my one was fast at normal zoom 17:50:09 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:50:12 <peter1138> hideously slow when zoomed out 17:51:16 <peter1138> otoh, i did it with one texture per sprite 17:51:22 <peter1138> which is simple, but inefficientr 17:52:16 <peter1138> but to build a sprite sheet is awkward in openttd's architecture 17:54:22 <peter1138> in fact openttd's current nice blitter system still relies on pointers to represent viewport location 17:54:31 <peter1138> which is a bit of a bugger for opengl 17:56:15 * andythenorth_ ponders updating the pony farm 17:57:03 <planetmaker> :-D 17:58:08 * peter1138 ponders updating the opengl patch 17:58:47 <peter1138> webgl openttd :D 17:58:55 <glx> haha 17:58:55 <peter1138> openttd written in jquery 17:59:07 <SpComb> doesn't google have something for that 17:59:13 <SpComb> sandboxed x86 18:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> err... wait... steam engines don't smoke under bridges?! 18:00:54 <peter1138> The driver turns off the smoke button. 18:01:03 <peter1138> (Similar to an undo knob) 18:03:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:30 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 18:08:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:09:01 <andythenorth_> pony farm updated ;) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46689&p=847034#p847034 18:10:55 <andythenorth_> two of those ponies are blocking FIRS and it would be nice to let them run free :) 18:10:58 <andythenorth_> one is just a niggle 18:13:34 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:02 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has joined #openttd 18:21:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: you have some stale [i] 18:22:13 <andythenorth_> pah 18:22:38 <andythenorth_> silly me 18:23:05 <andythenorth_> fixed 18:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... bridges could use some random recolouring 18:27:00 <supermop_> like industries? 18:27:09 <supermop_> little bits of CC paint? 18:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> bridges are often recoloured already, but it's static. 18:28:09 <supermop_> getting painted? 18:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it could use the same pseudo-random bits like trees 18:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> based on tile hash 18:28:22 <supermop_> every few years 18:30:03 <andythenorth_> add it to the pony list :P 18:30:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-90-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_: wtf are you talking about? 18:31:49 <andythenorth_> he means the forth bridge scenario 18:32:01 <andythenorth_> bridge graphics vary by time 18:32:05 <andythenorth_> due to repainting 18:33:11 <andythenorth_> speaking of repainting 18:33:14 <supermop_> or golden gate, by the time the painters get to one side, they have to start over at the other 18:33:18 * andythenorth_ wonders which FIRS industry to repaint next 18:33:23 <andythenorth_> FIRS is like the golden gate 18:33:28 <supermop_> haha 18:33:38 <andythenorth_> I finish painting everything, I have to start repainting them :| 18:33:55 <supermop_> people want open mines i guess? i am fine with shaft mines 18:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: ore mine 18:34:00 <andythenorth_> screw open mines :) 18:34:03 <andythenorth_> hmm 18:34:10 <andythenorth_> ore mind does need painting 18:34:16 <andythenorth_> I'm in a re-painting mood though 18:34:39 <andythenorth_> I can do (a) snow (b) some prettier ground tiles for some industry (c) make something more TTD-like 18:34:40 <andythenorth_> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/industries?economy=point_7_release 18:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: and because i have played TTO for "too long", i always mistake the bauxite mine for an ore mine... 18:34:52 <andythenorth_> indeed 18:34:58 <andythenorth_> that needs fixing 18:35:25 <andythenorth_> I can repaint Grain Mill or Glassworks 18:35:27 <supermop_> glass works 18:35:33 <andythenorth_> or add some lawn to Dairy 18:35:55 <supermop_> it looks just like some workshop, most others you can tell what they do by looking 18:36:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-102-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:08 <andythenorth_> I'm not sure what glass works should look like 18:36:15 <andythenorth_> I could repaint 100% from scratch 18:36:17 <andythenorth_> or reshade 18:36:23 <andythenorth_> google images provides no inspiration 18:36:26 <andythenorth_> ideas? 18:36:46 <__ln__> 20:16 < supermop_> i need to find a german tutor <-- isn't this channel full of such? 18:36:58 <supermop_> heh 18:37:15 <supermop_> i guess they would be pretty generic in real life 18:37:32 <planetmaker> there might be Germans... but tutor? Is quite a vague description ;-) 18:37:45 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my suggestion was to switch this channel to german for a week, then he'd get some use ;) 18:38:26 <supermop_> maybe larger chunks on metal in the piles at the junk yard 18:38:31 <supermop_> *of 18:38:36 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i fully support that idea 18:38:49 <supermop_> are you Germans familiar with Dieter Rams? 18:39:07 <Eddi|zuHause> never heard of that name 18:39:08 <planetmaker> who's that? 18:39:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:39:51 <andythenorth_> here's what current glassworks is based on: http://www3.familyoldphotos.com/files/images/2010/112210/OHsteubenville-glassworks-r.preview.jpg 18:40:12 <supermop_> heh, i guess he is only legendary in ver specific circles 18:40:16 <supermop_> very 18:40:24 <andythenorth_> the clerestory roof is not very TTD style 18:40:31 <supermop_> i need to work on my english typing as well 18:43:01 <andythenorth_> maybe I can make the glassworks more TTD style in layout as well as shading 18:43:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dieter Rams war Chefdesigner des ElektrogerÀteherstellers Braun und gilt manchen als GroÃvater des Apple Designs" 18:43:17 <Eddi|zuHause> that guy? 18:43:44 <planetmaker> aha 18:43:53 <supermop_> that guy 18:43:57 <supermop_> braun dude 18:44:04 <supermop_> and Vitsoe 18:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well... as long as google knows him... 18:44:38 <__ln__> supermop_: bitte auf deutsch 18:44:54 <planetmaker> :-D 18:46:58 <planetmaker> http://www.roemer-aus-theresienthal.de/ansicht1850.jpg <-- andythenorth_ 18:47:07 <supermop_> Herr Rams war der Hauptdesigner von meine Firm? 18:48:18 <planetmaker> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/Glasfabrik_Zwiesel.JPG 18:48:51 <planetmaker> Welche Produkte stellt Deine Firma her? 18:50:54 <supermop_> Regeln 18:51:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me: industries tend to have incredibly tall chimneys, in FIRS, they look rather short, or in case of the cement works, very wide 18:53:14 <andythenorth_> I've tried making them taller...but it looks odd 18:53:20 <andythenorth_> selective compression ;) 18:53:32 <supermop_> i think they should be short, as TT is sort of cartoonish 18:53:54 <andythenorth_> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2387/2130839751_2330c1e0c9.jpg 18:54:31 <supermop_> too tall heh 18:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 18:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: but the one in the brick works looks ok 18:56:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the others look shorter 18:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and the cement works one is definitely too wide 18:57:11 <andythenorth_> raise a ticket :) 18:57:19 <andythenorth_> cement works needs repainting anyway 18:57:50 <andythenorth_> it would be nice to have extended tiles action 2s before I do that 18:57:58 <andythenorth_> otherwise moving the smoke is world of pain :| 18:58:21 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> do the mines first ;) 19:02:28 <andythenorth_> I'm not in the mood for new sprites right now :) 19:02:42 <andythenorth_> I need to shake off the 'FIRS looks like OpenGFX' comments, they bother me :P 19:02:58 <andythenorth_> (nothing wrong with OpenGFX, but it's not the intended style for FIRS) 19:04:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22324 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: Vehicles skipped orders when inserting automatic orders failed. 19:04:26 <__ln__> supermop_: aus welcher bundesstaat sind sie? 19:05:14 <supermop_> New Yor 19:05:15 <supermop_> k 19:05:55 <__ln__> ach so 19:06:29 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22325 /trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt: -Fix: Slovenian iso code was wrong 19:07:50 <planetmaker> __ln__: aus welchem... 19:08:31 <__ln__> i was about to add a disclaimer that one shouldn't embrace grammar from my sentences.... 19:09:54 <__ln__> aber danke 19:12:01 <supermop_> brb lunch 19:14:08 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:00 <frosch123> [21:05] <__ln__> ach so <- in that context it sounds like "that explains a lot" :p 19:17:09 <__ln__> :/ 19:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> man, electrification is expensive 19:21:57 *** flitz [~me@dslb-188-107-134-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: flitz] 19:23:30 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:25:00 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has joined #openttd 19:31:59 *** andythenorth_ [~andy@cpc18-aztw25-2-0-cust185.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:27 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-123-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:38:34 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 19:45:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fd9e8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:53 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:15 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-172-101.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:55:23 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EF6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:02:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:07:02 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:08:25 *** gentest [gentest@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:27 *** gentest [gentest@anapnea.net] has left #openttd [] 20:12:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:16:14 *** staN [~Miranda@p5B176F39.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:20:25 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:03 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:30:06 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:30:46 <supermop> hi 20:33:29 <__ln__> hallo 20:34:24 <planetmaker> willkommen zurÃŒck 20:38:58 <supermop> wie gehts 20:39:08 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:32 *** Twerkhoven[L] [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 20:45:15 <__ln__> ganz normal 20:45:41 *** Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@p57A6EF6D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:46:02 <supermop> was sagt man 'wie gehts' mit ein 'Sie' Person 20:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> no german would ever say that :p 20:46:15 <supermop> hehe 20:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "wie geht es Ihnen" 20:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but be cautious: a german might tell you how he's _actually_ feeling 20:48:49 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4dbaa276.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:19 <andythenorth> snow graphics in default ttd are inconsistent 20:49:32 <supermop> hah 20:49:50 <supermop> apparently i need to buy a legit bonsai tree for this dude 20:50:01 <supermop> Bonsaibaum 20:50:04 <supermop> ? 20:51:21 <planetmaker> yep 20:51:32 <planetmaker> or just "Bonsai" 20:51:36 <supermop> and a real kaya goban 20:52:48 <__ln__> "how are you doing?" ist eine univeraler gruà auf amerikanisch, aber "wie geht's?" ist nicht ganz dasselbe ding, oder? 20:53:57 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: the meaning is mostly the same, but it's used less commonly, i believe 20:54:35 <planetmaker> __ln__: I always feel a bit awkward when being asked by somewhat strangers "Wie geht's?" 20:55:03 <planetmaker> as it's basically pointless chit-chatter. No one who asks that expects an answer so either you're fine or you lie. 20:55:34 <andythenorth> conversational gambit 20:55:55 <__ln__> when i visited the US last summer, at first i was kind of confused about the "how are you doing?" greeting, i wondered if they actually want to know how i'm doing or should i always answer "great". 20:56:13 <planetmaker> ^^ 20:56:22 <andythenorth> always answer 'awesome' 20:56:26 <andythenorth> when in the US 20:57:11 <supermop> ha 20:57:23 <andythenorth> sleeps time 20:57:25 <andythenorth> good night 20:57:31 <supermop> nah, always say eh, ok 20:57:40 <andythenorth> that's in canada 20:57:50 <__ln__> "i'm operating within normal parameters" 20:57:51 <andythenorth> bye 20:57:51 *** andythenorth [~andy@46.208.69.103] has left #openttd [] 20:57:59 <supermop> eh to rhyme with meh, not with 'a' 20:59:36 <Wolf01> 'night 20:59:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host41-233-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> answer "Naja, ich hab so Probleme mit der HÃŒfte und dann der lange Flug, da bin ich jetzt total geschafft [...]" 21:00:33 <supermop> heh 21:00:59 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, sometimes I'm tempted. Or telling a story about my grandmothers or so 21:01:06 <supermop> you guys think a german would care if i got a kaya goban, or just shin kaya 21:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i have no idea what either of those are 21:01:34 <planetmaker> supermop: would an American care? 21:01:38 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:01:45 <supermop> depends 21:01:49 <planetmaker> would a Japanese care? Or does it depend on the individual person? 21:02:00 <planetmaker> Ha! 21:02:19 <supermop> my boss said we need to have to some Japanese stuff around that would be appropriate to his aesthetic 21:02:40 <supermop> he raises his own Bonsai, so I know he would care about that 21:02:47 <supermop> the goban i dont know 21:03:46 <supermop> i dont know if i should get wabi-sabi stuff in general, like a random piece of driftwood or pottery, or if it has to be very design-y 21:04:09 <planetmaker> Hm... if I go someplace, I don't expect the people to know about my hobbies and to actually fan me about them... 21:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: so if he already has a bonsai, why give him another one? 21:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause> give him something that he _doesn't_ already have 21:07:06 <__ln__> a chainsaw 21:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if i go to new york, i'd expect to get new-york-y presents. and i give them Hallorenkugeln and RotkÀppchen Sekt. 21:07:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: indeed. I'd rather expect something original American. Maybe give him a leatherman. Or alike ;-) 21:07:44 <supermop> its not a present 21:07:58 <planetmaker> then it's worse IMHO ;-) 21:07:59 <supermop> its to make the shop look dieter-y 21:08:08 <supermop> not my idea 21:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i think it's the totally wrong approach. 21:09:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure why, but i have this image of Al Bundy in front of me, preparing the shop when his boss "Gary" visits. 21:09:44 <supermop> haha 21:10:07 <supermop> I am disappointed that Germans know who Al Bundy is 21:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and then "Gary" turns out to be something very different from what he expected 21:10:18 <supermop> does not reflect well on us 21:11:37 <planetmaker> You may be surprised how many US TV shows are known ;-) 21:11:49 <supermop> not surprised at all 21:11:56 <supermop> disapointed all the same 21:12:12 <planetmaker> why? 21:12:25 <planetmaker> why is it disappointing that it's known outside the US? 21:13:16 <supermop> Because many of our shows are very bad/crude/etc 21:13:54 <supermop> Americanization, in a bad way 21:14:51 <supermop> and the syndication revenue promotes studios to keep making bland or uninspired work to sell 21:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: and the british should be disappointed because we know Mr. Bean? 21:15:01 <supermop> hahaha 21:15:03 <supermop> maybe, 21:16:02 <supermop> I just feel like that for every German watching married with children, thats someone who isn't seeing something better from America or another country 21:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not getting your point. yes, your "TV/movie industry" is 100% profit driven, but that doesn't mean all shows are bad. and the worst ones are filtered out before they get on german television 21:16:26 <supermop> a lot of good, clever shows, like Arrested Development fall through the cracks 21:17:07 <supermop> and then maybe all europeans think most americans are like al bundy or something 21:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> err... 21:17:23 <supermop> that said 21:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a weird chain of thought 21:17:49 <supermop> we dont get much non-british european TV here 21:18:08 <supermop> i dont know 21:18:32 <supermop> i just feel a bit embarassed sometmes 21:18:55 <__ln__> don't worry, homer simpson is your ambassador to the world 21:20:03 <supermop> thats kind of the problem, the Simpsons started out very clever, but after 20+ years, I feel like it isn't really contributing anymore 21:20:26 <planetmaker> it's said that they depict the US quite well in a satirical way :-) 21:20:36 <planetmaker> I have the feeling it might be right 21:20:40 <supermop> heh 21:20:49 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:50 <supermop> but, the US is not so monolithic 21:21:13 <supermop> it is a huge area with many distinct regional cultures 21:21:16 <planetmaker> that's the artistic license. And not one of the messages I ever saw there 21:21:50 <supermop> its kind of sad that it all get bundled up, not just for Europeans, but also for americans 21:22:06 <supermop> so much of the local vareity is being destroyed 21:22:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's called "globalisation" 21:23:22 <supermop> yeah 21:23:31 <supermop> still can be nostalgic about it 21:24:39 *** zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 21:25:03 <supermop> sigh 21:25:05 <supermop> anyway 21:25:24 <supermop> i just don't want to be Al Bundy 21:27:01 <supermop> I should just brush up on architeture vocabulary and talk to this guy about the Metabolists 21:27:10 <__ln__> does someone remember if ESTA needs to be valid on the day of entering the country, or during the whole stay? 21:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what's ESTA? 21:30:00 <FauxFaux> The US "we want your soul" form. 21:32:05 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: the electronic form one needs to fill in at least 72 hours in advance before entering the US, and it is accepted or not accepted. 21:33:03 <__ln__> the one where they ask if you've participated in a genocide, etc. 21:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought european countries are excluded from this stuff 21:33:09 <__ln__> nope. 21:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> man... this has changed... last time i visited the US you just had to fill out a form in the plane 21:33:56 <__ln__> it's the "visa-waiver" program; when you fill ESTA, you don't need a real visa. 21:34:01 <supermop> i thought you can still do that 21:34:22 <supermop> an EU citizen shouldnt need a visa for a short trip anyway 21:34:23 <__ln__> as far as i know ESTA is mandatory nowadays. 21:35:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... don't take my advice for that stuff :p 21:35:25 <planetmaker> but there's an "entry fee". 21:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "it's like disney land" :p 21:37:22 <__ln__> i filled in my ESTA when it was free. 21:37:40 <__ln__> "Wenn Ihnen eine elektronische Reisegenehmigung erteilt wird, gilt dies als Nachweis, dass Sie im Rahmen des Programms fÃŒr visumfreies Reisen (Visa Waiver Program) zur Reise in die Vereinigten Staaten berechtigt sind, aber es lÀsst sich daraus nicht ableiten, dass Ihnen die Einreise in die Vereinigten Staaten bewilligt wird. Bei Ankunft in den Vereinigten Staaten werden Sie an einer Einreisestelle von einem Beamten der Zoll- und Grenzschutzbehörde (Customs 21:41:14 <__ln__> "C) Waren Sie jemals oder sind Sie gegenwÀrtig an Spionage- oder Sabotageakten, an terroristischen AktivitÀten oder an Völkermord beteiligt, oder waren Sie zwischen 1933 und 1945 in irgendeiner Weise an VerfolgungsmaÃnahmen in Zusammenhang mit dem Naziregime oder dessen VerbÃŒndeten beteiligt? [ ] Ja [ ] Nein" 21:41:58 <supermop> how many people that old are there still around anyway? 21:43:37 <supermop> gah this stuff is so expensive 21:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of people age 16-30 in 1945 are still alive 21:44:59 <supermop> the 30 year olds would be getting close to 100 21:45:12 <supermop> not sure if i would travel internationally at that age 21:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: so? 21:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> my grandfather turns 91 next month 21:46:31 <supermop> and my grandfather passed away at 94 last month, 21:46:48 <supermop> he was in ok shape, but not flying anywhere 21:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> he was in stalingrad, but got out due to an injury. towards the end of the war he got into a prisoner of war camp in texas 21:47:11 <supermop> I mean it seems like that clause in the form would be of extremely limited use 21:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> he was in a horse-artillery unit 21:47:50 <Terkhen> good night 21:47:54 <supermop> he fought in the philipines though, and a couple of years ago told me he wanted to go to Japan to visit 21:48:04 <supermop> horse artillery? 21:48:25 <__ln__> cannons pulled with horse power 21:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> a cannon dragged by a horse 21:48:52 <supermop> didnt know those were used in Russian theather 21:48:56 <__ln__> as opposed to trucks, like in modern-day artillery 21:49:14 <supermop> thought they used like half-tracks to pull that stuff 21:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> fuel was sparse... why wouldn't you use a horse? 21:49:25 <supermop> expensive to feed it 21:49:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but horse food is easier to come by than oil 21:50:36 <__ln__> and a horse without proper maintenance is probably more reliable than a truck without proper maintenance 21:51:17 <supermop> hmm i need some decent go stones for myself 21:56:39 <__ln__> "B) ..... oder haben Sie jemals Drogen in Umlauf gebracht, oder beabsichtigen Sie, zum Zweck krimineller oder sittenwidriger Handlungen einzureisen? [ ] Ja [ ] Nein" 21:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't even specify which drugs... 21:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> is alcohol a drug? 21:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> is chocolate a drug? 21:59:15 <glx> is chocolate with alcohol inside... ? 22:02:10 <supermop> what if it is prescribed? 22:03:14 <planetmaker> good night 22:03:34 <supermop> thanks planetmaker! 22:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what if it's a legal drug in your country, but illegal in the USA? 22:04:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what if it's the other way around? 22:06:01 <__ln__> good question... however, i assume if you answer "Ja" to any of those questions, the esta will be rejected. 22:18:31 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:53 *** a1270 [~a1270@72-24-233-98.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:32:45 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:38:54 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:57 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 22:39:57 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by me] 22:45:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-123-96.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:09 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.80.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:44 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 23:02:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 23:02:31 *** Devroush|2 [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:04:48 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:05:01 *** LordAro|2 [~kvirc@host217-43-110-76.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:05:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-97-234.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:29 *** ar3k [~ident@ecw105.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:40 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-013-114.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:10:39 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-167-85-124.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:36 *** ar3k [~ident@ebl83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 23:13:39 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 23:13:42 *** LordAro [~kvirc@host86-156-237-50.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:13:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:33 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:19:24 *** LordAro|2 [~kvirc@host217-43-110-76.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:41 *** Twerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "no catch. 5 min to historic pripyat" :p 23:32:55 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:39 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:46:22 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.8.76.54] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:47:02 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC2F35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]