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00:04:49 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:09:29 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:34 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@host-92-8-76-61.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 00:23:24 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:07 *** Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:43:00 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 01:09:09 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-30-242.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:17:20 *** fjb is now known as Guest2883 01:17:22 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD049.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:24:10 *** Guest2883 [~frank@p5DDFD7AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:27:32 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-181-212.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 01:33:30 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-34.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:50:58 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77E69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:51:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77E69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:21 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:15:40 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:35 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-253-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:00 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-211-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:41:38 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-253-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:04:02 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c7f:5b8f:3618:5d4c] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:51:39 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-38-27.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:56:04 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77E69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:23 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B770C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:11:41 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-253-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 05:39:33 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 05:41:30 <planetmaker> moin 05:43:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BC47.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 05:54:15 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:02:38 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 06:06:43 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:18:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:28 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:31:38 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ebr71.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 06:31:56 <Terkhen> good morning 06:32:14 <ChoHag_> Morning indeed. 06:32:20 *** ChoHag_ is now known as ChoHag 06:32:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 06:39:02 *** ar3k [~ident@eck103.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:39:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-75-183.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:44:54 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-69-56.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:46:28 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B126.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:58:03 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EB2E.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:00:03 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-189-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:10:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:05 *** JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:46 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@marvin-18-230.cnt.nerim.net] has joined #openttd 07:44:05 <planetmaker> nice. I thought and hoped you'd add something on the passenger network, Terkhen :-) 07:44:16 <Terkhen> :P 07:48:39 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B126.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:05 <Terkhen> aircrafts are boring though 07:51:34 <Terkhen> I was thinking on trying the vactrain set in a passenger only game but the tracks are insanely expensive 07:52:25 <Terkhen> and it is not easy to make crazy amounts of money in a yacd game 07:53:45 <Ammler> and ships aren't boring? :-) 07:54:12 <Terkhen> not as much 07:54:26 <Terkhen> you still have to think a bit 07:54:33 <Ammler> you used almost as many ships as trains 07:55:52 <Terkhen> ships are also great for local passengers on big towns 07:56:15 <Terkhen> I prefer metro trains but we didn't have them in that game 07:57:26 <Ammler> specially the fact that ships don't queue or crash is quite boring 07:58:03 <Ammler> on your screen, there are aound 5 ships in one :-) 07:59:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CC55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:19 <Terkhen> not crashing is boring? random crashing is really annoying and serves no purpose IMO 08:02:54 <Ammler> well, I meant that ships just drive through each other 08:03:26 <Terkhen> yes, it would be nice to have better behaviour for them 08:08:51 <dihedral> good morning lads 08:08:51 <planetmaker> <Ammler> you used almost as many ships as trains <-- yes. But they substitute basically trains which would carry the same 08:09:34 <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant according to the fact that ships are as boring as aircraft... :-) 08:11:26 <Terkhen> hi dihedral 08:11:41 <Terkhen> that's not a fact for me :P 08:13:50 <dihedral> hello Terkhen 08:13:51 <dihedral> :-) 08:14:00 <dihedral> and planetmaker, Ammler and the lot ;-) 08:14:45 <Ammler> hello dihedral 08:15:06 <Ammler> Terkhen: yes, ships are more boring, aircrafts at least have some fun on the airport :-P 08:15:56 <Terkhen> let's end this circular discussion as a tie :) 08:16:08 <Ammler> mÀh, ok :-) 08:19:39 <dihedral> :-D 08:20:04 <__ln__> plural of aircraft is aircraft 08:21:13 <Terkhen> english is so strange 08:25:01 <__ln__> it is 08:25:30 <Ammler> should have used planes 08:28:11 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 08:30:24 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:31:28 <__ln__> why on earth 08:34:51 <dihedral> plain planes :-P 08:36:29 <__ln__> the rain in spain stays mainly in the plane 08:39:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CC55.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:55 <Terkhen> whaaat? 08:51:41 <Noldo_> in Hartford, Hereford and Hampshire hurricaned hardly ever happen 08:51:47 <Noldo_> *s 08:57:14 <peter1139> what's special about that lot? 08:58:29 <dihedral> nothing 09:02:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:29:23 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:40:55 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFD049.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:02:44 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 10:09:24 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFFF8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:11:17 <planetmaker> hi dihedral :-) 10:11:58 <planetmaker> <Ammler> should have used planes <-- arcraft = [planes|helicopters|plimps|...] 10:13:11 <Ammler> as said, aircraft are exiting :-) 10:13:27 <Ammler> not that boring as ships 10:13:55 <Ammler> c 10:16:31 <planetmaker> :-) 10:16:44 <planetmaker> They are exciting as they allow to use different airports at least 10:16:53 <planetmaker> But ships are exciting if FISH is used 10:17:04 <planetmaker> exciting as in look great :-) 10:17:42 <planetmaker> and clearly with our yacd game efficiency was not the only goal. Rather "having fun" and "working somewhat smoothly" and "looking nice" ;-) All at once 10:27:04 <planetmaker> For me the biggest difference from YACD to normal game actually is the money maker phase. It's much more extended 10:28:32 <__ln__> http://www.dealextreme.com/p/power-saving-electricity-energy-saver-box-eu-plug-90-250v-65718 10:29:41 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 10:32:26 * fjb has to try YACD soon. 10:32:58 <planetmaker> worth it ;-) 10:33:09 <planetmaker> Though it still has some issues. Among them the random desync 10:33:49 <fjb> Random desyncs are no problem in single player. :-) 10:34:39 <fjb> FIRS is incompatible with NARS2 and UKRS2 at the moment? 10:36:46 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:39:30 <Ammler> isn't the desync already fixed in yacd dev? 10:39:41 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.8.76.61] has joined #openttd 10:40:53 <Ammler> do you earn money if you transport passenger from station A to station A? 10:41:21 <Yexo> I doubt it, since the payment is based on the distance 10:42:01 <Ammler> ah indeed, there was once a discussion to use distance of the "industries", not the stations 10:42:21 <planetmaker> fjb, UKRS2 is fine afaik. Not sure about NARS2: re-gearing is a problem 10:42:29 <planetmaker> if it uses the re-gearing cargo 11:05:48 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 11:13:52 <fjb> There was a discussion about FIRS and regearing. 11:14:23 <fjb> Is UKRS complete enough to be useful? 11:15:48 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:22 *** Chris_Booth_ [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:25:13 <planetmaker> dunno, I think so. It misses IIRC modern engines 11:25:24 <planetmaker> UKRS2 that is. UKRS, of course 11:26:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CC55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:26:50 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:56 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:27:11 <fjb> Yes, I somewhere lost the 2. :-) 11:27:33 <planetmaker> :-) 11:28:44 *** Chris_Booth_ is now known as Chris_Booth 11:29:52 <fjb> I'm still playing my r19639 with cargo distribution based game. 11:30:27 <Chris_Booth> how do I reset the engine pool? since I cheated the date forward and back in a game 11:30:35 <Chris_Booth> but don't want all locos 11:32:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has joined #openttd 11:33:07 <planetmaker> uhm... did you try "reset_engines"? 11:33:37 <Chris_Booth> thanks planetmaker 11:34:06 <planetmaker> no idea whether it makes engines un-available 11:34:41 <peter1139> should do 11:35:04 <Chris_Booth> it does <3 11:35:15 <Chris_Booth> no I cheated in the 2 locos I needed 11:41:32 <dihedral> \o/ quake3 at work :-D 11:41:36 <dihedral> who won? :-P 11:49:19 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@ppp118-209-38-27.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:21:01 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:26:33 <fjb> Didn't play for months. Now I remember what the problem in that games was: airports. 12:28:00 <Terkhen> too big? :P 12:29:27 <fjb> Too big to build. :-) 12:30:04 <Terkhen> and it is hard to replace them 12:31:45 <fjb> Yes... 12:32:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the size of the airports isn't the problem, it's there absolute inability to manage any kind of traffic 12:32:15 <fjb> But I'm in 2001 now. So they got replaced where ever possible. 12:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *their 12:32:56 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: True. But you have to build more of them to work around that. And then size becomes an issue. 12:33:45 <fjb> And Pikka's planes are as much fun as Andy's ships. 12:37:10 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i try, i never have fun with planes... 12:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> they end up either circling around the airport or waiting in a hanger, depending on which airport is used 12:37:55 <planetmaker> airports are too croweded by the year 2000. Then they need a train station attached to handle the traffic ;-) 12:38:02 <Terkhen> I tried a game with multiple terminals (YACD makes that really simple) but I was bored soon 12:38:24 <planetmaker> and we still can't introduce alternative state machines. 12:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the interesting airports come way too late 12:38:48 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, then alter their introduction date... by newgrf ;-) 12:39:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and like i said, you have no means to influence them once they are built, not even timetables help significantly 12:42:51 <fjb> They hangars get overcrowded. 12:43:26 <fjb> And I can not really add a railway station to the most problematic airport. 12:43:56 <fjb> What happend to the new airports branch? 12:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> some people can't get their head around the fundamental design problems 12:47:52 <fjb> That sounds complicated? What is the problem? The state for the movements at ground? 12:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> everything except the state machines is in trunk already 12:53:15 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/airportsplus/nightlies/LATEST/ <-- I offer you the option to rotate the small airport by 180°, fjb ;-) 12:53:33 <planetmaker> the other rotations and other airports are not done mostly due to missing graphics 13:00:06 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:ec40:c385:193e:e86f] has joined #openttd 13:00:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:01:13 <fjb> planetmaker: Nice, but the last small airport got upgraded some years ago. :-) 13:05:44 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 13:06:04 <planetmaker> ;-) 13:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> rotating airports isn't all that realistic, since runways are usually built in the (prevailing) wind direction 13:12:03 <planetmaker> then tell me where the wind direction is ;-) 13:12:33 <Terkhen> please, not the wind discussion again 13:12:36 <planetmaker> consider airport wind socks, vehicle smoke and power plant smoke ;-) 13:13:35 <Eddi|zuHause> this isn't about where the wind comes from. just pick a direction for runways and stick with it for all "rotations" ;) 13:14:16 <planetmaker> how boring 13:14:58 <planetmaker> but as airports usually have at least two perpendicular landing strips ;-) 13:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only very few big ones have that, actually 13:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and only one of those is used at any given time 13:15:49 <Belugas> hello 13:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> so unless you introduce weather ;) 13:19:02 <fjb> Moin Belugas 13:19:16 <Ammler> [15:12] <Terkhen> please, not the wind discussion again <-- :-D 13:20:13 <planetmaker> hi Belugas 13:20:21 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: usually the landing direction is ruled by the powerful neighbours 13:20:31 <fjb> Hm, now I have two crossing tunnels. Or would have if it would be possible. :-( 13:20:42 <planetmaker> fjb, cheat menu... 13:20:56 <fjb> planetmaker: Boring. 13:21:14 <planetmaker> how would it be less boring if it weren't in the cheats? 13:23:52 <fjb> That would also be boring. 13:24:31 <fjb> I found a creative solution. I move one tunnel. 13:37:27 <fjb> Now I only have to reroute some planes to the new airport. 13:40:28 <Ammler> unrealistic! 13:43:40 *** Belugas2 [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 13:45:06 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:45:55 *** Belugas2 is now known as Belugas 13:46:48 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 14:28:46 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 14:29:21 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:28 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 14:32:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7516.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:33 *** JamesGo_ [~james@host217-44-55-169.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:41:49 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:42:31 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:45:53 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:57 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 14:46:30 *** lasershock` [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:47:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:48:17 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]] 14:49:05 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:49:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 14:50:52 *** Zeknurn [~lasershoc@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:00 *** Chris_Booth [~Chris_Boo@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:06:24 *** XeryusTC2 is now known as XeryusTC 15:42:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.180.235] has joined #openttd 15:48:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BC47.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:24 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 15:54:07 <lucas92> I have some problem compiling liblzma 15:54:38 <lucas92> the error says: 15:55:15 <lucas92> libtool: link: cannot find the library '/mingw/lib/libiconv.la' 15:55:39 <lucas92> but I check if the library is in the folder and it's there... :( 15:55:49 <lucas92> I can compile OpenTTD fine without it 15:56:06 <lucas92> but I would like to compile it fully 15:56:35 <lucas92> I'm compiling with mingw and I followed the steps in the wiki 15:57:02 <lucas92> is there anyone that have an idea? 15:57:21 <lucas92> or should I post in the forums instead? 15:58:07 <Terkhen> lucas92: you probably forgot the etc\fstab step of the "Setting up MSYS" section 15:58:34 <lucas92> I've done that 15:59:41 <lucas92> I also modified the .bat since I'm on windows 7 16:00:11 <Terkhen> hmm... then I'm not sure of what could be the issue 16:00:15 <lucas92> but I have an idea of the problem 16:00:25 <lucas92> my ~ directory 16:00:44 <lucas92> doesn't point to minGW 16:00:56 <lucas92> but an another folder in C: called Cadence 16:01:14 <lucas92> how do I correct this? 16:02:19 <lucas92> it should point to the MinGW directory, right^ 16:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the ~ directory shouldn't have any influence whatsoever on building openttd 16:02:25 <lucas92> ? 16:02:31 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:59 <lucas92> yeah I thought so because I've built it correctly without lzma 16:03:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and the ~ directory would usually be your profile directory on a default mingw installation 16:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "C:\Documents and Settings\Username\" or something... name varies between windows versions 16:06:43 <lucas92> but it's not right now... 16:06:51 <lucas92> is it important at all? 16:07:49 <lucas92> in fact, I would just need the libraries compiled 16:08:04 <Terkhen> the placement of the home directory is not important... but the fact that it is not placed in the default place (\mingw\msys.0\home\user) makes me wonder if you followed the tutorial exactly 16:08:08 *** Archimedes [ND@tmo-019-204.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 16:08:40 <lucas92> followed it exactly, I have no idea why it points to this directory 16:09:37 <lucas92> and I don't see any home/user folder in the msys directory 16:09:52 <lucas92> do I have to create these? 16:10:48 <Terkhen> no 16:10:55 <Terkhen> it should have been created automatically 16:10:57 <Terkhen> hmm... 16:11:05 <lucas92> how? when? 16:11:12 <Terkhen> unless something you installed defined HOME as a global variable 16:11:20 <Terkhen> it happened to me once when mixing different mingw installations 16:11:32 <lucas92> how do I check HOME? 16:12:02 <Terkhen> control panel -> system -> advanced options -> environment variables 16:12:12 <Terkhen> (I'm not sure if those are the right names in english, sorry) 16:12:19 <Terkhen> then again, it might be something in the register too 16:13:09 <lucas92> yes I see the HOME affected to the directory 16:13:17 <lucas92> so where should I put it? 16:14:36 <lucas92> C:\MinGW\msys.0\home\user ? 16:15:12 <Terkhen> if you didn't create the HOME environment variable changing it might break the program that created it in the first place 16:15:13 <lucas92> then I copy the contents of the old HOME to this new directory? 16:15:21 <Terkhen> besides, it is probably not the issue 16:15:32 <Terkhen> unless it is doing the same for other directories 16:16:00 <Terkhen> hmm... libiconv should be present by default 16:16:06 <lucas92> it is 16:16:28 <Terkhen> can you try to set in msys "mingw-get update" or maybe it was "mingw-get upgrade", I'm not sure 16:16:33 <Terkhen> just in case some package is broken 16:17:18 <lucas92> ok 16:17:56 <lucas92> libiconv.la is in C:\MinGW\lib 16:18:05 <Terkhen> that's the right place, yes 16:18:10 <lucas92> updating... 16:18:24 <Terkhen> if you really edited /etc/fstab it should find libiconv.la in /mingw/lib/ 16:18:39 <Terkhen> can you paste your /etc/fstab to pastebin? 16:18:45 <lucas92> ok 16:19:10 <lucas92> C:\MinGW\ /usr/local 16:19:14 <lucas92> it's just that 16:19:35 <Terkhen> hmm.. that's correct 16:19:58 <lucas92> but to be sure, /mingw/lib is in which directory? 16:20:05 <Archimedes> Hi! Would anyone happen to know if there is some good documentation avaible about the server list and how it works? 16:21:32 <lucas92> ok, finished updating 16:21:42 <Archimedes> Ah well i might've just found the information I was looking for. 16:22:25 <lucas92> I'm still not sure about where /mingw/lib should be 16:23:00 <lucas92> why is this library so difficult to compile 16:23:01 <lucas92> wtf 16:24:43 <lucas92> the library did begin to compile also, I think the error is at the linking part 16:25:45 <lucas92> if anyone have xz compiled for Windows and MinGW say so 16:25:59 <Terkhen> if you have broken paths openttd will fail anyways 16:26:22 <lucas92> OpenTTD works correctly without it 16:26:31 <lucas92> it just cannot save/load maps 16:26:46 <Terkhen> IIRC /mingw/lib is c:\mingw\lib 16:26:53 <lucas92> AWW 16:27:03 <lucas92> then I have no idea 16:27:22 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@marvin-18-230.cnt.nerim.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:38 <lucas92> where's the bug 16:28:02 <Terkhen> neither do I :/ 16:28:17 <Terkhen> try to compile openttd without it (./configure --without-lzma) 16:28:24 <Terkhen> but there is some issue in your mingw 16:28:25 <lucas92> I've already built it 16:28:32 <lucas92> it works 16:28:33 <Terkhen> ah, I see 16:28:40 <Terkhen> no clue then, sorry 16:28:49 <lucas92> are you on Windows? 16:28:52 <Terkhen> yes 16:29:05 <lucas92> all I need is the compiled library for MinGW 16:29:22 <Terkhen> I have no access to mingw right now 16:29:30 <lucas92> aww 16:29:42 <lucas92> might Google it 16:31:34 <lucas92> http://www.w32n.tk/node/2 16:31:37 <lucas92> good link? 16:31:47 <Terkhen> no clue 16:32:03 <Terkhen> I have always used self compiled xz 16:32:30 <Terkhen> it mentions that xz has official windows binaries, though 16:32:32 <lucas92> so where do you put the include file and the bin files 16:32:42 <Terkhen> I'll look into that for the next time I update the tutorial 16:32:53 <Terkhen> lucas92: I don't know, follow the tutorial of whoever uploaded the binaries 16:33:01 <planetmaker> why do you want to compile the library and not just download it? 16:33:03 <planetmaker> http://www.google.com/search?q=liblzma+mingw 16:33:14 <Terkhen> planetmaker: because the tutorial says so :) 16:33:18 <planetmaker> oh :-P 16:33:51 <planetmaker> I'd not compile libraries but try to download them... if I weren't interested in building universal ones ;-) 16:34:23 <Terkhen> that's what you usually do, but it is quite rare to find libraries compiled for mingw if they are not included with mingw itself 16:35:10 <Terkhen> it seems that they only have been posting compiled versions for mingw since 5.0.0, when I updated the tutorial xz was in 4.999 or something like that IIRC 16:35:55 <Terkhen> this will make the tutorial considerably simpler; xz needs a lot of stupid stuff to compile :) 16:36:12 <lucas92> yeah 16:36:29 <planetmaker> hm... " Note that the MinGW distribution includes liblzma" 16:36:50 <planetmaker> http://lauri.vosandi.eu/openwrt/ralink/build_dir/host/xz-5.0.0/windows/README-Windows.txt 16:36:59 <lucas92> aww 16:37:28 <Terkhen> since when? :P 16:37:54 <Terkhen> lucas92: try "mingw-get install mingw32-liblzma" or "mingw-get install mingw32-xz" 16:37:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:38:30 <lucas92> ok 16:38:40 <lucas92> after that 16:38:59 <lucas92> I tar it? 16:39:21 <planetmaker> Terkhen: no idea of "since when"... :-) Just google-hopping ;-) 16:40:11 <Terkhen> lucas92: did it work? did it install something? 16:40:25 <lucas92> yes, it installed a .tar.bz2 16:40:31 <lucas92> how do I extract it 16:40:35 <lucas92> btw it's a beta 16:40:35 <Archimedes> Looks like there are some people here with (OTTD) coding experience. Would it be rearlly hard to implement a new new package for the server browser which just exports the game settings (difficultiy, advanced settings)? 16:41:01 <planetmaker> Archimedes: openttd.cfg is exactly that... 16:41:02 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:05 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:41:27 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-205-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:42:10 <Terkhen> lucas92: I was talking about the mingw-get install ... 16:42:27 <Archimedes> planetmaker but (as far as i know) it's not possible to get the cfg without actually downloading the map (it seems). I'd like to be able to filter out servers that ... let's say have inflation on. I kind of miss such an advanced filtering option. 16:42:27 <lucas92> yes 16:42:59 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:51:19 <Terkhen> mingw-get should have installed the library in the right place 16:51:24 <Terkhen> just try to compile openttd 16:51:49 <lucas92> ok 16:52:59 <lucas92> nope 16:53:09 <lucas92> mingw-get installed me a tar.bz2 16:53:32 <lucas92> the ./configure says lzma is not detected 16:57:43 *** Turbulentor [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:57:48 <Terkhen> use the compiled version found at the xz homepage and unzip its content in c:\mingw\ then (lib over c:\mingw\lib, include over c:\mingw\include and so on) 16:57:49 *** Turbulentor is now known as TWerkhoven 17:00:19 *** ashledombos [~ashledomb@ris91-2-82-227-26-30.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:04 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:01:38 <lucas92> still not working 17:01:40 <lucas92> wtf 17:02:34 <Terkhen> hmm... I don't know what else we could try :P 17:02:55 <lucas92> wow 17:03:39 <lucas92> anything that I could try to test if lzma is here? 17:03:52 <lucas92> well, it's in the directory 17:03:54 <lucas92> lol 17:04:03 <lucas92> but to check if they work 17:04:16 <lucas92> or maybe it's their name 17:04:20 <Terkhen> configure does that, that's why it says it can find it 17:04:23 <Terkhen> it can't * 17:04:54 <lucas92> there's no liblzma.la 17:04:56 <lucas92> though 17:05:37 <lucas92> in the compiled version 17:05:55 <lucas92> while I think there was in the home version 17:07:43 <Terkhen> what is the "home version"? 17:08:59 <lucas92> nvm, I think I found the problem, when I run lzmaininfo.exe, it says that my version of Windows is not supported 17:09:19 <Terkhen> errr... what version of windows do you have? 17:10:02 <lucas92> Windows 7 17:10:12 <Terkhen> me too, so it is supported :P 17:10:28 <lucas92> wtf 17:10:32 <lucas92> huh? 17:10:43 <lucas92> you tried with the compiled one? 17:11:24 <Terkhen> no, but I have windows 7 and xz works fine 17:11:48 <lucas92> yeah, it might be the compiled on that have the problem 17:12:06 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:29 <Terkhen> besides uninstalling mingw, deleting the c:\mingw folder completely and starting again I don't know what else you could try, sorry 17:12:33 *** Archimedes [ND@tmo-019-204.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:00 *** Archimedes [ND@tmo-019-204.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 17:14:44 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:23:04 <lucas92> oh well, I guess I won't compile OpenTTD with this library then 17:24:09 <lucas92> are you a dev? 17:25:15 <Alberth> yep 17:25:55 <lucas92> nice, I have a little bit of experience with C++, played with Box2D, boost, sfml, SDL, tinyXML 17:26:11 <lucas92> I'd be willing to help in dev 17:26:14 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 17:26:52 <lucas92> only used foreach, multi_array and array in boost though 17:27:03 <Alberth> there are plenty of problems and feature requests in the tracker, as well as in the problems and suggestions forums to try 17:27:12 * Alberth never used boost 17:27:17 <Terkhen> neither did I :P 17:27:38 <lucas92> I think it simplifies codes readablity 17:27:44 *** Archimedes [ND@tmo-019-204.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!] 17:27:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host218-161-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:28:08 <lucas92> for example, let's say you want to iterate over every object of a std::vector 17:28:15 <lucas92> you would do 17:28:40 <Wolf01> evening 17:28:48 <Wolf01> s/ing/ink 17:28:53 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 17:28:58 <lucas92> for(int i = 0; i < vector.size(); ++i)value = vector[i].value 17:29:10 <lucas92> with foreach you would do that 17:29:31 <Alberth> lucas92: nope, you'd use the STL approach 17:29:32 <lucas92> BOOST_FOREACH(T object, vector) 17:29:45 <lucas92> value = T.value 17:29:50 <lucas92> object.value 17:29:53 <lucas92> oops 17:30:06 <lucas92> with iterators you mean? 17:30:14 <Alberth> yep 17:30:33 <lucas92> I don't remember too well how you do it 17:30:35 <Alberth> I don't see the big advantage over an explicit for() imho 17:31:03 <Alberth> for(iter = vector.begin(); iter != vector.end(); iter++) value = iter->value 17:31:16 <lucas92> yeah 17:32:09 <lucas92> well, foreach can itterate over other types of list I think 17:32:21 <Alberth> as can iterators 17:32:25 <lucas92> oh 17:32:29 <lucas92> well I dunno 17:32:47 <lucas92> maybe it wants to mimic the C# syntax 17:33:05 <Alberth> boost and STL iterators pre-date C# 17:33:13 <Alberth> :) 17:33:30 <lucas92> well XD 17:34:03 <Terkhen> so does foreach, IIRC it is present in some languages older than C 17:34:08 <lucas92> there are other things that boost offers such as signals and multi-arrays 17:34:16 <Terkhen> signals? like qt signals? 17:34:23 <lucas92> hum yeah 17:34:37 <lucas92> you call a functor on the call 17:34:50 <lucas92> *signal 17:35:39 <lucas92> anyway, have to go eat I'm back in 20 minutes 17:35:48 <Terkhen> signals are not that great when you have thousand of instances of different classes interacting in many different ways :P 17:35:50 <Terkhen> enjoy 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22526 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt: 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 4 changes by etran 17:51:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 17:55:37 <lucas92> back from DINNER 18:16:23 <lucas92> so what is to be done with the code? 18:16:36 <lucas92> is it the to-do list in doxygen 18:16:40 <Terkhen> check the tracker and the forums 18:16:47 <Terkhen> there is no clear todo list anywhere 18:17:19 <Terkhen> the most important thing are always open bug :) 18:17:22 <Terkhen> bugs* 18:19:12 <lucas92> I can't find the "tracker" 18:20:23 <ccfreak2k> Flyspray? 18:20:38 <ccfreak2k> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 18:20:40 <ccfreak2k> Here you go. 18:21:11 <lucas92> ok 18:21:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:43 <lucas92> what is the color code of the bugs? 18:23:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has left #openttd [] 18:24:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 18:25:26 <Alberth> color is priority, look at the category instead 18:26:00 <Alberth> euhm, sorry, make that 'type' :) 18:26:07 <andythenorth> ho 18:26:08 <andythenorth> hello 18:26:15 * andythenorth had to register with oftc again 18:26:18 <andythenorth> how dull :P 18:26:23 <SmatZ> hello andythenorth 18:26:29 <andythenorth> register / login /s 18:26:33 <SmatZ> why did you have to reregister? 18:26:42 <andythenorth> probably my client is deficient 18:26:46 <andythenorth> or some such 18:26:49 <andythenorth> done now 18:26:53 <SmatZ> or you have virus? 18:26:59 <andythenorth> mac malware? 18:27:02 <andythenorth> probably :P 18:27:11 <SmatZ> more likely than you think :) 18:27:26 <andythenorth> I saw the drive-by-download attack on sunday 18:27:48 <andythenorth> interesting how far it gets + how well crafted it is 18:28:29 <andythenorth> hmm 18:28:36 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:42 <andythenorth> someone just filled the dev forum with a nice kind of spam 18:30:43 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 18:31:21 <Alberth> :) 18:32:01 <Alberth> evenink andy 18:36:53 <andythenorth> bonjour 18:37:26 *** Intexon [~Intexon@blk-222-147-135.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd 18:42:59 <Yexo> hmm, the end of grfcrawler is near 18:44:25 <andythenorth> no bad thing 18:44:27 <andythenorth> hmm 18:44:51 <andythenorth> I was going to make some updates to bananas to improve-ify bananas 18:45:09 <andythenorth> but I lack a django dev environment 18:47:38 <frosch123> hmm, december 2011 18:48:06 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 18:48:45 <frosch123> is there anything to save from that page? 18:49:21 <frosch123> also i thought it runs on the forums and is controlled by orudge 18:49:32 <Yexo> that's what I thought too 18:50:33 <orudge> frosch123: I host it 18:50:39 <orudge> and personally, I have no desire to see it closed 18:50:50 <orudge> so, as I said in #tycoon, we'll see what happens 18:51:30 <Alberth> does a full backup exist? 18:51:38 <orudge> GRFCrawler is significantly superior to Bananas in terms of its organisation of GRFs, etc 18:51:52 <Yexo> true 18:51:52 <orudge> ie, actually categorising things 18:52:02 <orudge> and including little screenshots, etc 18:52:07 <Yexo> only by now bananas is superior in updated content 18:52:18 <Alberth> it needs a bit cleaning up imho 18:52:30 <orudge> likely so 18:52:44 <Alberth> lots of 'old, please use that and that grf 19:00:28 <lucas92> finally I think I'm going to use Visual C++ lol 19:09:43 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:14:23 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22527 /branches/1.1/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [1.1] -Prepare for 1.1.1 19:26:30 <andythenorth> my plan was to add a page to bananas for each grf 19:26:40 <andythenorth> with description, links etc 19:27:46 <andythenorth> but plans are not horses 19:28:12 <Terkhen> that would be great, right now it just links to an outside web 19:31:03 <andythenorth> it would be the best compromise if links are never going to be clickable in-game 19:31:29 <andythenorth> there was also an argument about a url shortener, which I seemed to lose :P 19:31:38 <andythenorth> although I was right 19:31:55 <Chris_Booth> @seen michi_cc 19:31:55 <DorpsGek> Chris_Booth: michi_cc was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <michi_cc> frosch123: They don't. Not that it would be hard to hadd. 19:32:14 <Chris_Booth> not here for a long time 19:32:26 <Chris_Booth> any other YACD devs here? 19:32:51 <andythenorth> there is only one 19:32:55 <andythenorth> 2 days is not long 19:33:04 <andythenorth> and he said he would be busy for several weeks 19:33:49 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:50 <Terkhen> I guess he will see the highlight :) 19:33:55 *** zodttd [~me@user-0c90n0l.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22528 /tags/1.1.1/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.1.1 19:36:16 *** amkoroew [~Heinz@p5B106F06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:37:19 <andythenorth> :) 19:39:53 <Chris_Booth> yes I am sure he will 19:39:58 <Chris_Booth> or read my forum post 19:40:14 <Chris_Booth> I just find it quick to tell in here sometimes 19:47:35 <andythenorth> hmm 19:47:38 * andythenorth ponders 19:48:38 * andythenorth stops 19:49:07 <lucas92> generating OpenTTD is long on Visual C++ 19:50:01 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 19:55:34 * andythenorth can't see how to fix FIRS industry probabilities at map-gen 19:56:19 <andythenorth> depending on start date, player gets too many or too few of each industry 19:56:45 *** elmz [~elmz@184.213-167-126.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:13 <andythenorth> any suggestions? 19:59:25 <Hirundo> Too few/many industries in total, or of certain types? 19:59:33 <andythenorth> certain types 19:59:53 <andythenorth> adjusting the probabilities for date wxyz just causes problems for date abcd 19:59:55 * Alberth considers changing probability handling as well 20:00:25 <andythenorth> separately I think there's an issue with random construction during gameplay, but I can't prove it 20:00:44 <Alberth> in what way? 20:01:23 <Alberth> I consider http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=948575#p948575 to be a problem 20:01:55 <andythenorth> in every test game I've played, if I start prior to 1923, I get no aluminium plants during gameplay 20:02:08 <andythenorth> if I start after 1923, I get aluminium plants at map gen 20:02:10 <Alberth> ie if there is no room for an industry at the map, the game should generate less of that type, whatever its prio says 20:02:22 <andythenorth> (availability is obv. 1923 for alu. plant) 20:02:54 <andythenorth> ^ the issue I describe above is based on limited sample size 20:02:57 *** Kurimus [Kurimus@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe64de00-55.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:03:13 <andythenorth> so if it's really random, the behaviour could be correct, and I'm just seeing a particular random effect 20:03:22 <Alberth> priority of the al plant is similar to other industries? 20:03:27 <andythenorth> think so 20:03:38 <andythenorth> does map gen try any harder to build an industry? 20:03:43 <andythenorth> alu plant is large and hard to build 20:03:50 <andythenorth> hmm 20:03:52 <Alberth> it uses different prios 20:03:55 <andythenorth> I suspect I know the issue 20:04:03 <andythenorth> there are limited sites available 20:04:24 <andythenorth> those sites are likely to be more contended by other industry during gameplay than at map-gen 20:05:03 <Alberth> I don't know the order in which industries are generated at the map 20:05:13 <andythenorth> if there are n possible sites, during map gen p from n may be available 20:05:23 <Alberth> besides first trying to generate 1 for each necessary industry 20:05:24 <andythenorth> whereas during gameplay, all n sites may be occupied 20:05:43 <Alberth> yeah, but depending on when the al plant is tried 20:05:52 <andythenorth> I wondered that 20:06:08 <andythenorth> is the order deterministic? I think asked a while back and the answer was 'no' 20:06:19 <andythenorth> testing is boring 20:06:29 <Alberth> better read the code :) 20:06:39 <andythenorth> we need a test server for these things, like a nightly buildbot that runs reports on the major industry sets :P 20:06:49 <andythenorth> accessible via hudson on the devzone 20:07:38 <andythenorth> incidentally I've seen the oil rig issue in a FIRS game 20:07:45 <andythenorth> I thought I'd screwed up FIRS code, but perhaps not 20:09:03 <Alberth> I'd like to dig into these problems, but not now, too little time left today 20:09:22 <Alberth> we could make a wiki or have some PMs exchanged or so? 20:10:55 <andythenorth> yarp 20:10:58 <andythenorth> or a forum thread 20:11:06 <Alberth> about the generation issue, afaik the industry can only tell the priority of getting build. 0 means do not build, but I don't have information when that changes. That makes planning for room for a new industry type complicated 20:11:19 <andythenorth> I think it's a thorny problem 20:11:29 <andythenorth> especially when you mix in availability 20:11:37 <andythenorth> I wonder about pre-seeding the entire map 20:11:42 <andythenorth> but there might be no storage for that 20:11:48 <Alberth> pre-seeding? 20:12:02 <andythenorth> determine in advance spots where industry x might appear 20:12:13 <andythenorth> it would need to be robust against numerous factors though 20:12:19 <andythenorth> terraforming, town growth, routes 20:12:20 <Alberth> oh, I have that idea too :) 20:12:37 <andythenorth> I'm 99% certain railroad tycoon did it that way 20:12:40 <Alberth> but you'll see many oil-rig issues then :) 20:12:56 <Alberth> I'd make great scenarios imho 20:12:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-106-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:13:02 <andythenorth> I'm not certain it's feasible by any means, but it's worth exploring 20:13:09 <andythenorth> it might throw up another idea 20:13:29 <Alberth> euhm 32 cargo-types, right? 20:13:36 <andythenorth> yes 20:13:46 <andythenorth> and no more required :) 20:13:47 <Alberth> @calc 64*64*32/8 20:13:48 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 16384 20:14:06 <SmatZ> one bit per cargo type? 20:14:40 <Alberth> ie have 64x64 zones at the map, one bit per zone per cargo for yes/no 20:15:27 <SmatZ> so on a 128x128 map, there would be 4 the same 64x64 zones? 20:15:48 <Alberth> a zone would be 2x2 20:15:53 <SmatZ> oh 20:15:57 <SmatZ> ok 20:16:20 <Alberth> ie at 2048 I see no gain in being very precise 20:16:43 <Alberth> @calc 2048/64 20:16:43 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 32 20:16:57 <Alberth> a zone of 32x32 is still nice 20:18:20 <Alberth> not sure that you actually want this for every cargo type though 20:18:50 <SmatZ> I thought it would be done for industry types, not cargo types 20:19:00 <SmatZ> but I didn't follow the discussion :x 20:19:31 <SmatZ> do you want the newgrf to somehow generate a 32x32 bitmap for each cargo type? 20:19:51 <SmatZ> that sounds very complicated 20:19:53 <Alberth> industry types could be used too, I was more thinking about having primary cargo available 'in the ground' at some places 20:20:09 <Alberth> no, I think it is part of a scenario 20:20:12 <SmatZ> oh 20:20:15 <SmatZ> ok 20:20:23 <Alberth> ie an additional restriction where to build some industry 20:20:51 <Alberth> ie a coal mine can only be build in a zone with coal :) 20:21:10 <SmatZ> :) 20:21:29 <SmatZ> on a 64x64 map, the rules would be too strict 20:21:37 <SmatZ> I think 20:21:40 <Terkhen> that sounds similar to that old suggestion of having different "zones" in the map, each one with different industries, houses and so on 20:21:59 <SmatZ> wasn't that actually implemented? at least for towns 20:22:06 <Alberth> SmatZ: why? nothing stops you from making all zones have coal? 20:22:33 <Alberth> it is just very precise 20:22:49 <andythenorth> this could be done by newgrf 20:22:52 <Alberth> only for houses iirc 20:23:01 <andythenorth> it would be arcane currently as no grf-global storage :P 20:23:23 <andythenorth> but using x and y it could be done 20:23:33 <SmatZ> Alberth: yeah, well :) I just have problems getting rid of splitting the map to "super-tiles" :) 20:23:47 <SmatZ> which would have the same size no matter how big the map is 20:24:03 <SmatZ> what you say the "super-tile" would be 1/32x1/32 of the map size 20:24:35 <Yexo> SmatZ: yes, I implemented that for towns/houses 20:24:35 <SmatZ> but I see the advantage 20:24:50 <SmatZ> Yexo: actually I didn't want to highlight you :) 20:24:55 <Alberth> you don't want to split? 20:25:21 <SmatZ> Alberth: thinking about that, your idea is better, since it scales fine with the map size 20:25:23 <Alberth> Yexo has a 6th sense :) 20:25:27 <SmatZ> hehe :) 20:25:57 <Yexo> now that would be cool :) 20:37:17 <SmatZ> Alberth: maybe that would either increased or decreased the chance of creating industry that produces/accepts multiple cargos 20:37:44 <SmatZ> or you would have to compensate for that somehow 20:38:17 <SmatZ> like - both bits 1->it can be placed here 20:38:36 <SmatZ> one bit 1-> industry can be placed here if (Random() & 1) 20:38:41 <SmatZ> or so :) 20:38:42 <Alberth> I was thinking either bit 20:39:16 <SmatZ> then "livestock == 1" would imply "grain == 1", and vice versa 20:39:23 <SmatZ> for default cargos... 20:39:28 <Alberth> and to keep the coal mine example, it would need restrictions on produced cargo 20:40:50 <Alberth> I haven't given it much thought yet, perhaps & is better, or perhaps we need more bits to express other ideas 20:41:19 <SmatZ> with &, "livestock == 0" would imply "grain == 0", and vice versa 20:41:28 <SmatZ> but yeah, that idea sounds good :) 20:42:27 <lucas92> awesome, got it compiled fully with VC++ 20:43:28 <Alberth> your idea of doing it for industry types may be better, at least it is more direct 20:44:00 <Alberth> lucas92: you spend an hour waiting for a compiler? 20:44:19 <lucas92> no, actually I didn't installed VC correctly 20:44:30 <lucas92> and installed the directx 20:44:34 <lucas92> SDK 20:44:35 <Wolf01> 'night 20:44:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host218-161-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:44:51 <frosch123> @topic set 1 1.1.1 20:44:51 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only 20:46:16 <lucas92> so what are you working on? 20:46:56 <Rubidium> the most important thing to do right now ;) 20:47:06 <andythenorth> playing yacd 20:47:07 <andythenorth> ? 20:47:14 <lucas92> lol 20:47:21 <andythenorth> or like me, updating cashflow documents? 20:47:27 * Terkhen is playing yacd :P 20:47:29 * andythenorth suspects Rubidium is probably doing cashflow 20:48:02 <Terkhen> after the freight game passenger only games are boring :/ 20:48:35 <Terkhen> lucas92: regarding code, not much, it's been months since I coded anything "big" for OpenTTD 20:48:58 <Terkhen> there are a lot of people here with suggestions for coding if that's what you want :P 20:49:04 * Alberth messes with code segement 2AE1 of Opendune 20:49:19 <Ammler> add static grf support to the gui 20:49:33 <lucas92> ugh how am I supposed to know how lol 20:50:20 <Alberth> while true: read code, try changes, ask questions 20:50:36 <Terkhen> if you don't know what to code, play a game, after a while you will notice something that annoys you :) 20:50:39 <Terkhen> that's what I usually do 20:51:14 <Terkhen> after you get to know the code, you will also find stuff in the code that bothers you :P 20:51:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r22529 /trunk/docs/ (32bpp.txt openttd.6): -Doc (r22419): Reflect removal of '-i' option in documentation. 20:51:57 <frosch123> someone wants to write a news post? :p 20:52:27 * andythenorth tries not to read source too much, there be dragons 20:53:02 * Alberth wonders how andy manages to change nfo code 20:53:29 <frosch123> Alberth: if the dragon is big enough, you cannot see it 20:53:34 <Terkhen> if openttd code has dragons, nfo has lovecraftian stuff 20:54:22 <Alberth> that's what I like about irc, you learn new words all the time :p 20:54:39 <Yexo> it gets scary when you realize you can read varaction2 code while only looking up what the variables are 20:54:42 <lucas92> the code is so huge! I get lost 20:55:07 <Terkhen> lucas92: I started by checking existing patches, that way you get to know a "single" part of the code and how to modify it 20:55:27 <lucas92> how do you check these? 20:55:29 <Terkhen> you can also check the commit log for commits related to what you want to do 20:55:30 <Yexo> same here, I started with a patch for waypoints 20:55:41 <lucas92> ok 20:55:44 <Terkhen> there are many patches in the development forum and in the bug tracker 20:55:48 <Ammler> Zuu: [22:55] <MrD2DG> Openttd Auto update just failed :/ 20:55:59 <Alberth> lucas92: that's normal, I haven't seen all code yet and I dig around in that code since 2007 or so 20:56:12 <Terkhen> yes, there are parts of the code that really have dragons :P 20:56:33 <Ammler> Zuu: [22:55] <MrD2DG> Just got a message "failed to get updated release list from internet" 20:57:26 <Alberth> lucas92: I started by reading code, and adding doxygen comments to undocumented parts 20:57:39 <lucas92> hmm 20:57:59 <Terkhen> meh, passenger only yacd is now boring, I'll start a new game tomorrow 20:58:00 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 20:58:11 <Alberth> then I turned that documented code upside down :p 20:58:21 <Ammler> Zuu: guess it is only for him, the status page works here 20:59:12 <Alberth> good night 20:59:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 20:59:41 <lucas92> @param is for documentation? 20:59:49 <Yexo> yes 21:00:01 <Yexo> you'll see it on docs.openttd.org 21:00:41 <Alberth> http://www.doxygen.org/index.html 21:00:55 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:01:34 <lucas92> I see plenty of code improvements, for example, many functions have int types, while they could be const int types 21:02:02 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.68.243] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 21:02:08 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:15 <Yexo> in general the code doesn't use const for integer types for function arguments 21:02:23 <lucas92> why? 21:02:33 <Yexo> it's just not done anywhere in the code 21:02:40 <lucas92> it could? 21:02:46 <Yexo> yes, it could 21:02:58 <Yexo> I doubt there would be a measurable performance benefit though 21:03:04 <lucas92> ah ok 21:03:16 <Yexo> if there was, it would be a very good improvement 21:03:31 <Yexo> if there isn't, there would be no reason to change it 21:04:06 <lucas92> for example, the videoDriver class? 21:04:33 <lucas92> void MakeDirty(int left,int top,int width,int height) 21:04:40 <andythenorth> oh 21:04:43 <andythenorth> he's gone :P 21:04:53 * andythenorth was going to say nfo is trivial compared to real code 21:04:59 <andythenorth> there are no types or anything to deal with 21:04:59 <lucas92> could be void MakeDirty(const int left,const int top,const int width,const int height) 21:05:25 <Yexo> lucas92: if you can show (after testing) that adding const there would make the code faster, it'd be worth it 21:05:32 <Terkhen> andythenorth: that might be true, but it is still more confusing :) 21:05:45 <andythenorth> hmm 21:05:55 <andythenorth> I am probably a bit special in my approach to coding :P 21:05:58 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:06:05 <Terkhen> :P 21:06:22 <andythenorth> also...quite a few times I read src, I find things that are not quite what they claim to be :P 21:06:29 <Terkhen> maybe I am too used to c++ 21:06:32 <andythenorth> maybe 21:06:37 <andythenorth> C++ baffles me 21:06:53 <andythenorth> I may not have tried properly 21:07:15 <lucas92> you mean faster for compilation time or running time? 21:07:21 <fjb> cat /dev/random > code.nfo 21:07:40 <Terkhen> besides VB before starting university, and a small amount of java and php code in some classes, I have only coded c++ :) 21:07:48 <Yexo> for running time, that's the only thing that matters 21:07:51 <Terkhen> lucas92: performance 21:07:55 <lucas92> aww 21:08:08 * andythenorth has only coded actionscript, javascript, python, and nfo 21:08:09 <lucas92> yeah, const only optimize compilation time 21:08:13 <lucas92> oh well 21:08:21 <Terkhen> and testing performance on windows is... quite difficult to say the least :) 21:08:34 <Yexo> if it makes a real good improvement on compilation time that's welcome of course 21:08:35 * andythenorth forgot BBC Basic and RISC OS Basic :P 21:08:43 <andythenorth> and Director 21:08:44 <lucas92> oh ok 21:08:51 * andythenorth is monologuing and will go away 21:08:52 <Yexo> but it'd have to be significant (let's say 10% or so) for it to be worthwhile 21:08:59 <Terkhen> I started with BASIC too, on an old zx spectrum :) 21:09:13 <Terkhen> I barely understood the stuff, though 21:09:17 <lucas92> ok, I will take a look at it 21:09:20 <andythenorth> I coded animations, and some crappy games 21:09:25 <andythenorth> mostly I coded this though: 21:09:30 <andythenorth> 10 print 'fuck' 21:09:32 <andythenorth> 20 goto 10 21:09:39 <andythenorth> which amused me when I was 12 21:09:42 <andythenorth> :P 21:09:45 <Terkhen> I copied examples from the book and messed them up until they did what I wanted 21:09:56 <andythenorth> hmm 21:09:59 <Terkhen> which now that I think of it is surprisingly similar to what I do now :P 21:10:05 <andythenorth> there was an enhancement in my code above 21:10:08 <andythenorth> > mode 2 21:10:14 <andythenorth> color = rnd (16) 21:10:18 <Terkhen> heh :D 21:10:21 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:10:24 <andythenorth> meh, forgot the line number 21:10:31 <andythenorth> what happened to line numbers? They were useful 21:10:38 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-189-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 21:10:42 <andythenorth> it's not at all an insane way to code 21:11:03 <Terkhen> you can use labels on c++ to use goto, but it is not "good code" 21:11:16 <Terkhen> code with gotos is quite difficult to review and understand 21:11:29 <frosch123> lucas92: "readability" is also a goal. so i am not a big fan of making every third word "const" :) 21:11:36 <Terkhen> ^ 21:11:47 <Terkhen> unless for performance, if that can be proven :P 21:11:58 <andythenorth> ho: http://www.smallshire.org.uk/sufficientlysmall/2007/06/11/bbc-basic-lexer-with-ply/ 21:12:33 <__ln__> Terkhen: there's one sensible use case for goto 21:12:54 <Terkhen> which one? openttd has a few gotos anyways 21:13:48 <__ln__> avoiding having a dozen places in a function where the function may return; 21:14:31 <Terkhen> I thought that compilers optimized that at least in part 21:15:24 <__ln__> having a dozen points of exit is not very readable 21:15:42 <frosch123> __ln__: there is a second use case: continueing or breaking nested loops 21:16:00 <__ln__> frosch123: that too 21:20:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:03 <andythenorth> happy days: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/happy_days.png 21:22:29 <andythenorth> it used to be I could remember how to put the swearwords into an array and choose them at random :P 21:23:30 <Terkhen> :D 21:23:43 <lucas92> oh well, I think I'll drop the idea with the const keywords 21:24:23 * andythenorth has now written enough useful code today and should go to bed 21:24:32 <andythenorth> 3 lines of highly useful code :P 21:24:37 <Terkhen> indeed :) 21:24:40 <Terkhen> good night andythenorth 21:24:51 <andythenorth> maybe I should GPL that program :P 21:25:29 <Terkhen> no 21:25:41 <Terkhen> if you gpl it someone will try to patch the foul language away :( 21:25:44 <andythenorth> I should keep it just for myself? 21:25:53 <andythenorth> it's pretty clever :P 21:26:13 * andythenorth wonders if today's generation of script kiddies have done stuff like that 21:26:15 <Terkhen> do a special license 21:26:26 <Terkhen> "free for any use, as long as the swearing is kept without changes" 21:26:48 <andythenorth> he 21:26:51 * andythenorth bedtime 21:26:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:27:24 <planetmaker> good night 21:27:36 <Terkhen> night andy 21:36:54 <lucas92> Some other thing I see in the code that could be improved for the code readablility is the position 21:37:07 <lucas92> for example, void DrawVehicleEngine(int left, int right, int preferred_x, int y, EngineID engine, PaletteID pal) 21:38:05 *** Noldo_ [vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:11 <lucas92> could become void DrawVehicleEngine(Vector2 position, Vector2 prefered_position, EngineID engine, PaletteID pal) 21:38:16 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-074-205-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:39 <lucas92> Vector2 would be a utility class that defines a 2D vector 21:38:50 <lucas92> with a x and y coordinate 21:39:11 <Terkhen> it looks more or less the same to me, besides, int left and int right are not a position 21:39:22 <lucas92> no? 21:39:59 <Zuu> Ammler: It dose work from here. Either a temporary problem at his side or with users.tt-forums.net. 21:40:07 <Zuu> does* 21:40:10 <Terkhen> IIRC they are the space you have for drawing 21:40:24 <Ammler> Zuu: yes, loading the status page took also long for him 21:40:36 <Terkhen> anyways, code readability changes are not a big priority, unless they are in *really* confusing parts of the code 21:40:38 <Ammler> maybe you have a kind of timeout? 21:40:45 <lucas92> ok 21:40:48 <Zuu> I think so. I don't remember what it is. 21:40:50 <Terkhen> I'm too sleepy to remember an example, though :P 21:41:37 <Zuu> But there is a timeout so that it shouldn't take too long to start it when you are offline. 21:42:12 *** Noldo [~vheino@jumi.lut.fi] has joined #openttd 21:42:55 <Zuu> After it times out with users.tt-forums.net it also tries the secondary server which apparently he also had problems to reach. 21:43:23 <Zuu> The secondary server is at my web host here in Sweden. 21:45:32 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7516.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:22 <lucas92> what with the FORCEINLINE macro? What is its use? 21:49:41 <Yexo> it expands to __forceinline for msvc 21:49:47 <Yexo> for gcc just to inline 21:50:26 <glx> ask KUDr :) 21:51:52 <lucas92> ok 21:55:29 *** TWerkhoven [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:02:59 *** KenjiE20 [~kenji@92.8.76.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:32 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 22:10:45 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@93-80-106-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 22:12:08 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-106-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:11 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 22:12:32 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Juo] 22:12:33 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-94-112-27-160.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... 1.1.1 before midnight? 22:13:00 <lucas92> lol 22:13:01 <lucas92> no 22:13:09 <lucas92> really? 22:13:37 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc16-lewi15-2-0-cust395.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:41 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:53 *** Amis [~Amis@5400EB2E.dsl.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*] 22:15:47 <Terkhen> that way we can go earlier to bed :) 22:15:50 <Terkhen> good night 22:16:06 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:30 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 22:20:30 *** sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:41 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC29B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:26:34 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:39:14 *** lucas92 [~lucas92@bas2-stlambert20-2925120089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:46 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0497ba.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 22:47:16 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.A98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:25 *** sliddy [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:54 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:51:20 <fjb> Hm, configure doesn't find liblzma. 23:00:56 <fjb> Ah, liblzma has no metadata file for pkg-config. And configure relies on pkg-config. 23:01:14 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 23:03:48 *** rplnt [~opera@ip-89-176-190-174.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:05:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:11:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CC55.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B770C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B770C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:22:57 <rplnt> Hello, I'm interested in the format of the save file (especially the land/map part) and how could I read it. Could someone point me to the right part of the documentation and/or part of the source tree (I found some load/save file but wasn't quite dure if it is it). Thanks 23:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a RIFF format that is compressed. 23:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the structure of each chunk is described in the files in src/saveload/ 23:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the map structure is described in docs/landscape.html 23:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> for easier testing, you can make uncompressed savegames with an option in openttd.cfg 23:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> "savegame_format = none" or similar 23:37:32 <rplnt> Eddi|zuHause: thank you 23:47:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-106-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:49 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:16 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:29 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:56:05 *** yorick is now known as Guest2996 23:57:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:57:41 *** murr4y [~murray@229.84-48-69.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:58:15 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn140-116.spy.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]