Config
Log for #openttd on 27th June 2011:
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00:07:00  <Verbatim> How's it going?
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04:51:50  <TruePika> Why is it that, when I copied my config file from Linux to Windows, that I get all sorts of NewGRF errors?
04:52:12  <TruePika> They are caused by the difference between '/' and '\'
04:52:22  <TruePika> If I change them to '\', no errors
04:52:47  <TruePika> However, Windows accepts '/' in URIs
04:53:11  <TruePika> OTTD seems not to like '/' in the Windows config...
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06:50:09  <Terkhen> good morning
06:52:57  <peter1138> hi
06:56:15  <Terkhen> hi peter1138
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07:22:49  <dihedral> does anybody know if there is a simple way to install imagemagick on a SLES server?
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07:38:46  <peter1138> apt-get install imagemagick ;D
07:40:47  <dihedral> i wish :-P
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08:23:54  <Eddi|zuHause> zypper in imagemagick?
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10:37:13  <peter1138> me o'clock!
10:38:00  <Ammler> finally :-)
10:44:30  <Sacro> haha
10:58:02  <fjb> Not here.
10:59:05  <Sacro> so warrrrm
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13:40:06  <MNIM> hmmmmhm
13:40:24  <MNIM> is there a way to make vehicles available again after they've expired?
13:41:03  <Terkhen> enable "vehicles never expire" and write "resetengines" on the console
13:42:24  <MNIM> yeah, I got the vehicles never expire option, but I activated it too late, not realizing that those things are save-specific
13:42:56  <MNIM> oh jay, that did it
13:42:57  <MNIM> thanks
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13:47:45  <MNIM> hmmmmh
13:47:56  <MNIM> this probably helps with solving some of that congestion I had
13:49:04  <MNIM> I split up a group of stopping trains which did a clockwise round line and gave the second half orders to go anti-clockwise
13:49:10  <MNIM> now to do the same with the intercities
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14:20:07  <MNIM> hmmmmh. would a DB270 lock be a viable replacement for a caledonian railway 439 pulling a five tile long train to transfer it onto longer trains at mining hub stations?
14:20:30  <MNIM> while taking into account that they have to pull it over some slopes
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15:32:18  <MNIM> hmmhhh
15:32:27  <andythenorth> mmm
15:32:33  <MNIM> anybody can remind me where 'trains can reverse at station is under?
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15:40:39  <Vikthor> MNIM: I think difficulty settings
15:41:17  <MNIM> oh
15:41:28  <MNIM> well that would explain why I couldn't find it
15:42:41  <Ammler> MNIM: rcon list_settings reverse
15:42:54  <Ammler> or without rcon
15:43:01  <Vikthor> yes, this setting is kind of tricky, it's heritage from original TTD
15:43:43  <Ammler> or grep the cfg
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15:54:44  <andythenorth> after we've added realistic prices, can we fix some more realism related things?
15:55:27  <andythenorth> for example I've noticed that some trains are too short
15:55:38  <andythenorth> e.g. an SD40-2 is only about 25px long in game
15:55:47  <andythenorth> whereas wikipedia says it's "68 ft 10 in (20.98 m) over the coupler pulling faces"
15:56:08  <glx> haha
15:56:14  <andythenorth> so it's about 68 feet and 9 and 3/4 inches too short
15:56:16  <glx> realism in openttd
15:56:21  <andythenorth> (depending on your screen size)
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16:04:46  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: have you used the more zoom levels yet? :p
16:05:07  <andythenorth> then it no longer fits on my screen :(
16:05:12  <andythenorth> my screen is unrealistic
16:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... this 32bpp blender tutorial on the wiki totally does not work in blender 2.5
16:05:24  <andythenorth> it appears to just be a 2D depiction of things
16:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and aside of that, it seems to be written by somebody who has absolutely no clue
16:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause> both "import Blender" and "from Blender import *"
16:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, you don't pay real money for it either
16:06:57  <andythenorth> my screen?
16:07:04  <andythenorth> it certainly appeared to cost money
16:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the SD40-2
16:07:10  <andythenorth> maybe it's all just appearances
16:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> (whatever that is)
16:07:15  <andythenorth> maybe the world is just illusion
16:07:29  * andythenorth wants his money back
16:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> well, money is an illusion
16:07:52  <Eddi|zuHause> someone just made it up
16:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> (typically that someone is called "central bank" or somesuch)
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16:29:54  <MNIM> money is a representation of services and goods in an abstract form, qualified in numbers
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16:31:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they make you believe, but it is really not
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16:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause> at least not since the 1950's, and certainly not since the 1990's
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16:41:45  <MNIM> well, if you are referring to the use of 'imaginary' money at stock exchanges, it's far older than the 1950s
16:42:11  <MNIM> in fact, Id refer you to the very first stock crash, which, naturally, happened in the netherlands
16:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause> 1950's is when the gold standard was given up
16:43:07  <MNIM> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania#Social_mania_and_legacy
16:43:19  <MNIM> well, that doesn't really count
16:43:45  <MNIM> the only thing that changed was that money became independent of the value of something else
16:44:00  <MNIM> and besides that, the gold standard isn't that old
16:44:33  <MNIM> the 'standards' were all, at their time, the most valuable stuff available.
16:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> no, before the gold standard, money was worth the material value of the coin
16:45:04  <MNIM> what was said value based on? hmmh?
16:45:16  <MNIM> it's all recursive, that's the funny thing about money
16:45:20  <Eddi|zuHause> the gold standard meant: i won't give you 1000 Mark worth of gold, but i will give you this paper that says you could get 1000 Mark worth of gold"
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16:46:14  <glx> it weights a lot less when you need 1000000 ;)
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16:48:33  <MNIM> well, figure this: back during the tulip mania, when you wanted to buy a nice luxury home, you wouldn't give the seller a box full of gold coins, you'd give hima a tulip bulb
16:49:04  <MNIM> during that time, anything that was worth a lot and was easy to carry was used as 'money'
16:49:26  <MNIM> gold, spices, tulips, they've all been used as monetary means
16:49:59  <MNIM> yet none of them actually are worth the value they represent
16:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but nowadays it isn't.
16:50:18  <MNIM> not in most civil countries, yeah
16:51:12  <andythenorth> omg
16:51:19  <andythenorth> don't mention that money is based on illusion
16:51:24  <andythenorth> that makes the whole thing fall down :
16:51:28  <andythenorth> then where would we be?
16:51:37  <andythenorth> *not* in the shop buying stuff, that's for certain
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17:15:58  <peter1138> yay, tulipmania
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17:36:47  <Wolf01> hello
17:41:54  <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22610 /trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt:
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:43:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: swedish - 4 changes by Zuu
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17:49:52  <Dozzer> I installed GRF for tramways, but I can't build tramway
17:49:54  <Dozzer> Why?
17:50:32  <TWerkhoven> are there any trams available?
17:51:03  <Dozzer> I think yes...
17:51:19  <Dozzer> The scenario is in 2012
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17:52:01  <Zuu> If you go to the NewGRF window (in your game, not the menu), do you have your tram NewGRF visible in the list?
17:52:02  <Rubidium> you don't need a tramway newgrf to get trams, you need trams to get tramways
17:52:24  <Dozzer> Yes, it's visible
17:52:32  <Dozzer> With a green square in left of its name
17:52:59  <Dozzer> I installed "Generic Tram Set"
17:53:10  <Zuu> That's a tram set.
17:53:30  <Zuu> If you click and hold your button on the button to build road (top of screen)
17:53:41  <Zuu> Do you get a menu where you can select tram way?
17:53:48  <Dozzer> No...
17:55:06  <Zuu> Then I'm out of ideas without having access to your (save-)game.
17:55:08  <TWerkhoven> you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
17:55:08  <Rubidium> please upload the savegame; this guessing what's wrong game doesn't seem to be fruitful
17:55:44  <Dozzer> Give me a site to upload
17:55:46  <Dozzer> pl0x
17:55:54  <Dozzer> <TWerkhoven> you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
17:55:58  <Dozzer> Look, I`m not so stupid
17:56:21  <Dozzer> In my old games with temperate climate I constructed
17:56:37  <Dozzer> But it's possible to be this because of toyland climate?
18:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> very likely
18:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> most sets do not offer vehicles for toyland
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18:19:45  <Wolf01> bah... my provider is retarded
18:20:27  <Wolf01> I asked if was possible to reduce the lag, they raised the speed, now I have more lag and less download speed (24kbps)
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19:06:36  <MNIM> NOOOOOooo
19:06:43  <MNIM> I got attacked by UFOs! D:
19:16:37  <Dozzer> How can I build raw materials industries?
19:17:59  <Dozzer> :s
19:22:19  <Hirundo> there's a setting for that
19:23:29  <MNIM> Advanced settings --> economy --> industries --> manual primary industry...
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19:29:29  <MNIM> owww
19:29:34  * MNIM baps self
19:29:41  <MNIM> do more research!
19:30:05  *** Ninja [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
19:30:40  <MNIM> so I just upgraded half of my network to electric
19:31:20  <MNIM> and then I realised there's really no loc that'll provide any advantage of my jesus-christ-knows-how-old 99kmh steam engines
19:31:31  <MNIM> and it's already 1953!
19:31:47  <MNIM> *advantage over my...
19:35:27  <MNIM> I bought those SBB A3/5-s from 1900 and later, and yet there's still no really satisfactory euro e-loc
19:38:45  <MNIM> The NS1000 comes close, but they're not really fast, neither cheaper than a steam loc (which is odd, considering e-locs need a lot less laborious manhours!
19:38:49  <MNIM> )
19:40:17  <andythenorth> he
19:40:21  <andythenorth> weather would be lame
19:40:24  <andythenorth> but clouds...
19:40:24  <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=145201
19:40:25  <andythenorth> nice
19:41:17  <MNIM> looks a bit out of place combined with the old-school graphics of the rest of the game, but yeah, random clouds would be neat
19:41:28  <Dozzer> How can I remove a newGRF?
19:41:30  <MNIM> also, those are huge mountains! is that a patch?
19:41:37  <Dozzer> How can I remove a newGRF?
19:41:39  <MNIM> during a game?
19:41:42  <Dozzer> Yes
19:41:47  <Dozzer> No exactly
19:41:56  <MNIM> you can't, in newer versions of ottd
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19:42:01  <Dozzer> During making a scenario
19:42:23  <MNIM> there's no real difference between a scenario and a running game for ottd
19:42:28  <Eddi|zuHause> scenario is the same as a game
19:42:53  <MNIM> in fact, rename a .sav into .scn, put it in the correct folder and you are perfectly able to open it in scedit
19:43:23  <MNIM> there is one way, but I am so not responsible for any bugs that might occur!
19:44:19  *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-164-169.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
19:45:10  <MNIM> (adding/removing newgrfs in-game has been disabled in newer versions because it's prone to cause bugs, which are then blamed on the ottd devs, which is annoying for them to say the least)
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19:55:25  <Terkhen> Dozzer: see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=53881
19:55:49  <Terkhen> the last post includes links to a few examples of what might happen if you change NewGRFs anyways
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21:13:31  <Dozzer> When I see the list of my trains
21:13:42  <Dozzer> What are those symbols under train's number?
21:16:14  <Twerkhoven[L]> wether or not ir makes a profit
21:17:21  <Dozzer> I see a blue bar
21:17:27  <Dozzer> And a yellow...ball
21:17:34  <Dozzer> With a green "+"
21:17:45  <Twerkhoven[L]> diagonal bar? you are using opengfx then right?
21:17:55  <Twerkhoven[L]> diagonal blue bar == engine < 1year old
21:18:59  <Twerkhoven[L]> http://wiki.openttd.org/Vehicle_list <-- full explanation of that particular window
21:32:46  <Dozzer> thx
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21:33:21  * andythenorth -> bed
21:33:24  <andythenorth> good night
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21:36:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:00:01  <Terkhen> good night
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22:29:37  <Dozzer> Why when I destroy something, it doesn't make green?
22:29:41  <Dozzer> A square...
22:29:45  <Dozzer> It remains brown
22:29:46  <Dozzer> :|
22:30:08  <Twerkhoven[L]> how long did ya wait?
22:32:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it's grass. needs time to grow
22:32:38  <Yexo> it'll only turn green when the game is unpaused
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22:37:57  <Dozzer> Yexo
22:38:00  <Dozzer> The problem is
22:38:05  <Dozzer> That it isn't in pause mode
22:38:26  <Dozzer> And also, 3 years have passed
22:38:35  <Yexo> please create a savegame and upload it
22:41:05  * MNIM groans
22:41:08  <MNIM> motherfucker.
22:41:37  <MNIM> perhaps I should not be trying to read info on newgrfs while Ive got a few beers headbutting my brain
22:45:08  <Yexo> try writing newgrfs when you had a beer too many :p
22:45:53  <MNIM> well, it's not so much "too many" but "too fast"
22:46:06  <MNIM> also, Im a lousy coder, with or without beers >.<
22:46:07  <Yexo> same effect :)
22:46:57  <MNIM> well, that is, I have far too little patience and a too smal attention span to code anything from the ground up.
22:48:33  <MNIM> Bah, you know somewhere where I can get a TTBRS that gives TTRS road surface graphics when used with TTRS?
22:48:48  <MNIM> (or vice verca)
22:48:58  <Yexo> no idea if such a grf exists
22:49:24  <MNIM> well, somebody said that there (probably) is, yet I can't find it
22:49:26  <Twerkhoven[L]> tubular bridges?
22:49:28  *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.178.204] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
22:50:43  <MNIM> nope, the whole total bridge replacement set
22:51:13  <MNIM> like so
22:51:14  <MNIM> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=93170
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23:05:20  <MNIM> You know? the default ottd company HQ looks pretty tiny compared to other town buildings
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23:09:42  <Eddi|zuHause> this took like 5 minutes of searching: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=736691#p736691
23:10:53  <MNIM> hmmmmh.
23:11:43  <MNIM> I must have been using horrible search terms, apparently
23:11:52  <MNIM> seriously, where did my google fu go?
23:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i cheated, because i went through a couple of german posts :p
23:13:05  <MNIM> lol
23:13:09  <MNIM> well, I can read german
23:13:26  <MNIM> speaking and writing... Not so much
23:13:40  <MNIM> and yet I live, like, next door >.<
23:14:07  <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:14:30  <MNIM> is it just me, or has TTBR not developed much between 2008 and 20011? 0-o
23:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> not at all.
23:15:22  <MNIM> :/
23:15:37  <MNIM> sad. those bridges are pretty neat, they deserve more updates!
23:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> all _interesting_ updates for bridges need completely new infrastructure, like action1/2/3 support
23:16:35  <MNIM> ...in laymens terms? (sorry)
23:16:46  <Eddi|zuHause> like the often requested "suspension bridges should span more tiles"
23:17:22  <MNIM> hmmmh, read something about that too.
23:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> currently, the order of bridge tiles is fixed by the game
23:17:47  <MNIM> sounds to me like that would need a big change in how (o)ttd handles bridges in general
23:17:54  <MNIM> (...) indeed.
23:17:58  <MNIM> bah.
23:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause> action1/2/3 would allow for switching graphics depending on variables (like length of/position in bridge)
23:18:18  * MNIM notes to self: stop pressing enter before you finished your sentence
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23:19:44  <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:20:09  <MNIM> from what I understand right now, a bridge has five tiles, plus ramps
23:20:55  <MNIM> five /unique/ tiles, I should say
23:21:04  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, in a fixed order
23:21:48  <MNIM> so you can make stuff like a tied bridge as they do in TTRS, yet you can't repeat that five tiles long arch
23:22:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
23:22:01  <MNIM> TTBRS*
23:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause> that's already quite an abuse of the system
23:22:45  <MNIM> it's a hack, if I understand it correctly
23:22:57  <MNIM> and it works solely because it allows no repeats
23:24:22  <MNIM> hmmmmh
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23:25:44  <MNIM> that TBRS + TTRS3 set you linked me to seems to be a hack as well
23:26:19  <MNIM> the TTRS modern roads 'shopped on top of the bridges, sadly they still mismatch when used with the classic roads
23:26:54  <MNIM> oh well, Ill admit it's less of a mismatch :P
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23:33:47  * MNIM reads what the CHIPS abbreviation stands for
23:34:10  <MNIM> ...Yeah, jay, recursive abbreviations. probably a linux user :P
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23:42:04  <MNIM> hmmmmh
23:42:12  <MNIM> newstations looks kinda cool
23:42:22  * MNIM puts that in the 'keepers list
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23:48:11  <MNIM> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?avatar=17845_1230726446.png
23:48:24  <MNIM> got any idea what roadset that is?
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23:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's NARoads
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23:52:46  <MNIM> ty
23:53:13  <MNIM> hmmmmmh
23:53:36  <MNIM> something like railtypes should be done for roads too
23:55:11  *** amkoroew [~matze@p5B106F38.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:56:13  <Mazur> dirtroads, gravel, brick, asphalt, you mean?
23:56:28  <Mazur> +concrete
23:57:29  <MNIM> something like that
23:57:56  <Mazur> Damn, gotta go searching for that XP key again.
23:58:14  <MNIM> so you can chose between 'em, instead of having them forced per timeline or town center vicinity
23:58:30  <Mazur> I nver learn and write it somwhere accessible.
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