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00:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i pushed this now, and i wait for nightly build time tomorrow? 00:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.och-noe.de/index.php?comic=34 00:05:08 <Ammler> yes, http://hg.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars.mq for CF is already created 00:05:16 <Ammler> what is what you need to tell Rubi 00:06:52 <Ammler> this is also what people can use if they don't want to use mq 00:09:27 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.och-noe.de/index.php?comic=37 <- that's one for peter1138, if he knew german ;) 00:17:53 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC360E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 00:29:56 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: it also creates this: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars/releases/r22680/ 00:30:00 <Ammler> and good night :-) 00:30:26 <Ammler> (the rpm is not really useful, just for checking if building worked) 00:32:15 <Ammler> the openttd CF does then more useful binaries 00:42:00 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:56:21 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@124-168-201-36.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:48:13 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 02:00:44 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:00:45 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-108-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 02:10:13 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:13:44 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-124-226.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:10 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5cc:af03:f3ce:a198] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:23:24 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:49 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 02:29:20 *** AD is now known as Guest3124 02:34:15 *** DoubleYou 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06:29:23 *** DoubleYou [~jkuckartz@202-161-23-121.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 06:51:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 06:53:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [] 07:20:26 <Terkhen> good morning 07:23:52 <__ln__> hyvÀÀ huomenta 07:26:35 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@195-240-99-235.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:38:55 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC974.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:38:57 <dihedral> morning 07:41:00 <planetmaker> Salvete 07:41:10 <V453000> hyyy 07:42:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:30 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3AC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:25 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:07:25 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:07:46 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:01 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:48:31 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:48:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:16:10 *** KittenKoder [~kitten@174-24-255-9.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:37:00 <andythenorth> morgen 09:39:48 <Alberth> today 09:42:02 <KittenKoder> Oh hi, I thought everyone was asleep right now. 09:42:18 <planetmaker> zzzZZZzzz 09:42:23 <KittenKoder> :p 09:43:37 <KittenKoder> Working on attempts with realistic track layouts. 09:44:33 * Alberth looks for Belugas and V453000 09:44:41 <planetmaker> :-D 09:47:46 <Noldo_> "realistic" mentioned! Take Cover! 09:47:48 <Alberth> going to draw us a few zillion new sprites? 09:47:52 <KittenKoder> LOL 09:48:05 <KittenKoder> I want rounded tracks. >.> 09:48:13 <KittenKoder> Gimme rounded corners! 09:48:15 <KittenKoder> :p 09:50:28 <Alberth> I think your chances are much better if you start an openlomo project 09:50:53 <Alberth> or revive one of the previous attempts 09:51:23 <KittenKoder> Me, I've been a big addict... I mean fan of TT for a looong time. >.< 09:52:27 <KittenKoder> Just the people in the another IRC channel got tired of me talking about it. 09:57:54 <planetmaker> unless you want to draw and code rounded corners yourself... 09:59:14 <KittenKoder> I was tempted to. 09:59:51 <Alberth> and not only the rounded tracks, but also all train NewGRFs and train base sets need additional sprites 10:00:36 <KittenKoder> That's the problem./ 10:00:44 <Alberth> and immediately after that, you get better roads, with more road vehicle sprites 10:01:05 <Alberth> yes, and for that reason I don't see it happening in openttd 10:01:15 <KittenKoder> ^_^ I know. 10:01:26 <Alberth> you are pretty much killing everything 10:01:48 <KittenKoder> It's just a fun gripe. 10:03:58 *** fjb [~frank@p5DDFC974.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:04:14 <Alberth> diagonal bridges and tunnels have a much better chance if you want to code something in that area 10:04:26 <Alberth> or diagonally going up a hill 10:05:46 <Ammler> or diagonal stations 10:06:03 <fjb> Moin 10:06:16 <Ammler> en guete :-) 10:06:30 <Alberth> moin fjb and Ammler 10:07:14 <fjb> GrÃŒezi Ammler 10:07:19 <fjb> Moin Alberth 10:07:48 <planetmaker> holla fjb 10:07:58 <fjb> Moin planetmaker 10:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> dobre dien 10:15:26 <MNIM> augh german slang 10:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> those are two of the three czech words i know... 10:17:03 <fjb> Moin Eddi|zuHause 10:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (the third one is 'pivo', of course) :p 10:18:34 <MNIM> hahaha 10:18:40 <MNIM> I used to be a pivo. :D 10:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "pivo" means "beer" 10:20:02 <MNIM> I know. It's also a scouts' rank in the netherlands. 10:20:12 <MNIM> needless to say, pivo flows freely :P 10:20:32 <MNIM> not free, one coin per bottle, but still pretty dirt-cheap 10:25:38 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-124-226.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:31:14 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has joined #openttd 10:31:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:38:49 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I like the 'disallow tree chopping trick' , but it also makes track building virtually impossible 10:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the values probably need tweaking anyway 10:41:34 <Alberth> another option would be to make towns not care about trees :p 10:44:16 <fjb> But we love trees. 10:45:03 <planetmaker> especially in Stuttgart ;-) 10:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> those people are way beyond tree loving :p 10:45:55 <planetmaker> http://www.greenaction.de/kampagne/60000-alte-baeume-sollen-gefaellt-werden-httpwwwnabu-braunschweigdeflughafenhtm <-- though... that's less than 5km from here ;-) 10:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a forest! it's meant to be cut down! 10:50:22 * Alberth thinks most people are against the airport expansion instead 10:50:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:51:16 <Alberth> we always need to rescue such forests when they are in the way of something expanding 10:52:27 <fjb> Who cares for CO2, lets kill all the trees. 10:52:56 <Alberth> fjb: CO2 with trees only works if you NEVER chop them 10:54:10 <fjb> At least you should not burn the wood. 10:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> trees handle only like 20% of the world's CO2 10:54:39 <Alberth> and some trees in western europe are nothing compared to the deforestation happening in Brazil 10:54:41 <andythenorth> trees are a pretty good carbon sink whilst they're growing 10:54:54 <andythenorth> that they have problems doesn't make them useless 10:55:27 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-108-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:56:16 <andythenorth> hmm 10:56:26 <andythenorth> I mostly hang around with people who want to solve hard problems well 10:56:27 <andythenorth> which is fun 10:56:31 <andythenorth> but has a massive downside 10:56:39 <andythenorth> they tend to dismiss 10% and 20% solutions 10:56:53 <andythenorth> instead of banking the improvement and moving on 10:57:11 <andythenorth> which can lead to all solutions being rejected 10:57:14 <andythenorth> leaving a 0% improvement 10:58:29 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/tree_build_limit.diff <-- well. That should link the tree building to the terraform limit 10:58:55 <planetmaker> needs testing, though 11:01:27 <planetmaker> and questionable whether sensible... linking it to clear or to terraform... or should it get its own setting or none at all (would be most simple) 11:01:39 <planetmaker> it's currently making use of the 'clear' limit 11:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's only one single photo of the ET41 on the whole internet :( 11:07:28 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0826d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:08:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: wrong. Already wiki has two 11:08:36 <planetmaker> three 11:08:51 <fjb> I have one photo in my book. 11:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: where? 11:09:14 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKP_class_ET41 and translations 11:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's the wrong ET41 11:10:24 <fjb> Looks very different from the ET41 I'm thinking about. 11:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DRG-Baureihe_ET_41&action=edit&redlink=1 <-- it would be here, but the article does not exist 11:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.elektrische-bahnen.de/history/mdland/vorortverkehr.htm 11:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that is the photo i found 11:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the lower one 11:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.elektrische-bahnen.de/history/mdland/elT1201_k.jpg <-- or this small one 11:13:30 <fjb> I have a picture in this book which shows the other side and a two color scheme (but the picture is black and white). 11:13:47 <planetmaker> lool :-) 11:14:23 <fjb> But the colors of that time should be known. 11:14:45 <fjb> My scanner is not working right now. 11:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> colour schemes were pretty standardised at that time 11:15:23 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: power and weight stats would be useful as well 11:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i only got lengths and top speed 11:15:50 <fjb> weight 66t 11:16:05 <fjb> top speed 100km/h 11:16:18 <fjb> 570kw 11:16:30 <fjb> (Stundenleistung) 11:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> TE and axle weight? 11:16:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and weight of the middle and end wagons individually 11:17:27 <fjb> Speed (St.lstg.) 81km/h 11:17:55 <fjb> Sorry, no. 11:18:29 <fjb> Hm, they say (1A)(A1) w2t 11:18:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D13E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's what i noted here as well. 11:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll just put 66/4 as axle weight 11:19:25 <fjb> Length 22900mm 11:19:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably close enough 11:20:08 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:20:25 <fjb> Wheel diameter 1000mm 11:21:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but while you're here: can you look over this table and see whether your book has any of the missing values? https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkXAVZqXTFQxdHM3UlpWM1hPZWpfeTlkdnZsMldjSkE&hl=de#gid=0 11:22:16 <fjb> The red parts? 11:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yep 11:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> can skip over the swiss and austrian ones for now 11:23:08 <fjb> The wagons of the ET41 were like the 2 axle Einheitspersonenwagen. 11:23:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.191.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but i don't really have any statistics about those either 11:24:37 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagons in this list have currently some made up values 11:24:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> particularly hard to find are power values of the very early steam engines, and TE values for all kinds of railcars 11:26:32 <Alberth> wouldn't a museum have that information, or know where to find it? 11:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> all current values in there are based on internet research, mainly wikipedia 11:28:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:30:20 <fjb> I fount a book a book with some BLS stats. 11:31:59 <fjb> CE 6/6 to RE 4/4. 11:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> those are JVassie's entries, i have not touched them. but feel free 11:44:27 <fjb> Hm you habe BR50 and BR52. The BR52 is a simplified BR50. The simplification where individually made and some simplified engines got the number 50. Most stats are the same, beside the weight. BR52 weights up to 3t less. 11:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's why the 52 is not in the "core" set 11:46:40 <fjb> Ant it is unknown when the last 52s were decommissioned. Most probably endet as spare parts for the BR50. 11:47:29 <planetmaker> fjb: you should add your knowledge to that table, if possible :-) 11:51:04 <fjb> You have most stats. How can I fill in what I find? 11:51:40 <fjb> And if you have BR52 you also need BR43. :-) 11:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> get a google account, and ask planetmaker to add you as an eligible person 11:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> we have the 43 11:51:55 <fjb> I have a google account. 11:52:09 <fjb> Oh, then I overlooked the BR43. 11:53:37 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you have exactly the same rights with that spreadsheet as I do ;-) 11:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes. but... ;) 11:54:05 <planetmaker> fjb: but if you tell me your google account... I'll add you to editors 11:54:17 <planetmaker> tsk tsk @ Eddi|zuHause ;-) 11:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently thinking about how to do the articulation... if i continue like i did now, i.e. middle and end wagon a different ID, we quickly run out of IDs <128 11:55:36 <planetmaker> yes... another patch for our patch queue :-P 11:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> we might work around that with more dummy wagons, but then the callbacks might get more complicated 11:56:17 <planetmaker> yes... 11:59:29 <fjb> I have the decommission date of BR44 at DB, but not at DR. How do I fill that in? 12:01:07 <Eddi|zuHause> just put one number 12:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> decommission date is mostly decorative, might be used as an indicator for the lifetime, but we may as well put some made up data for better gameplay 12:04:04 <planetmaker> hm... andy should probably again read http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html 12:16:26 <fjb> There were a lot of VT137 and SVT137... 12:16:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i mostly put the DB numbers there, like VT04 12:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because (S)VT137 is useless as a categorisation 12:17:53 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> it was like "we put all railcars with diesel engine and 4 axles in there" 12:21:53 <fjb> Where did you find the TE? Or did you calculate it? 12:22:43 *** ar3kaw [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:04 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's a formula in the field, i calculated it from mass 12:24:13 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's a number, i found it somewhere 12:25:17 *** ar3k [~ident@ebz169.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:28 <Eddi|zuHause> feel free to correct my rather crude formula ;) 12:25:32 <fjb> I have the weight of the BR01.10, but not the TE. 12:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> steam engines usually have "reibungsmasse" given, which i just multiplied with 0.35*9.81 12:26:48 <fjb> And I have the weight of the ET31 (of the full train), but the it is much longer than the powerd part in the table. 12:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's 3 mostly identical wagons, so it'll probably be enough 12:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the ET31 actually was unusual in that all three wagons were driven 12:28:41 <fjb> Should I devide it by 3? 12:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> most electric railcars of that time were one driven wagon a few middle wagons and a steering wagon 12:29:48 <fjb> Yes 12:31:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the number looks a little low 12:32:32 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:39:20 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:23 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 12:39:25 <fjb> ET31: 145.1t 12:39:58 <fjb> Length: 68840mm 12:40:22 <blathijs> /win 20 12:40:24 <blathijs> woops 12:44:28 <planetmaker> why only win 20 times? ;-) 12:48:58 <Belugas> hi hi 12:49:46 <planetmaker> hi ho Belugas 12:50:23 <Belugas> mister maker, i salute you 12:51:14 <Belugas> and i was thiking about you yesterday evening :) there were heat lightnings on the sky. I took something like 150 photos of them 12:51:37 <Belugas> Of course, been the first time, i did not had some good shots 12:51:48 <Belugas> plus, i took my 18-55 instead of the 70-300 12:51:51 <Belugas> so wide angle 12:51:52 <Belugas> booo 12:51:55 <Belugas> silly me 12:52:22 <planetmaker> :-) Lightening is a bitch to take good shots of 12:52:27 <planetmaker> I usually fail 12:55:13 <Alberth> hi hi Belugas 12:55:42 <fjb> Moin Belugas. 12:59:47 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:10:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 13:13:03 <Belugas> indeed, planetmaker, indeed 13:13:17 <Belugas> hello sir Alberth :) you too fjb 13:16:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:02 <Belugas> planetmaker: "usually fail". that means that sometimes, you do have some good results, right? 13:20:57 <planetmaker> well... long(er) ago I managed to make some images with a lightening. I'd not call them great though 13:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/357/ <-- the "really long" track class scheme (15 types) 13:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course it contains a typing error... 13:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what you get for being case sensitive... 13:24:48 <planetmaker> ach... track classes without game fun effect are boring. They're micro-management 13:25:50 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-108-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the more track types you have, the higher you can do the spread between cheap and expensive ones 13:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so a high speed track really can cost millions per tile ;) 13:27:11 <planetmaker> but what's the fun in that? 13:27:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but this is meant as the "micromanagement" version 13:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> the "basic" version should not contain more than 3 normal, 3 electric and two 3rd rail 13:28:25 <planetmaker> that many? 13:28:56 <Eddi|zuHause> lower than that and you might not bother at all 13:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> can do one 3rd rail, but then you have difficulty running mainline trains on them 13:30:01 <planetmaker> like 5 track + 1 3rd are enough imho 13:30:51 <planetmaker> but yes, ML might then not run on 3rd rail 13:31:40 <planetmaker> but a basic track scheme should not be too extensive but be really basic 13:31:51 <planetmaker> like an introduction to the axle weight scheme 13:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "really basic" variant proposal: DBan, DBa3, DBBn, DBdn, DBde, DBDe 13:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is almost too reduced imho 13:34:06 <Belugas> would it be fun? 13:34:21 *** ar3k [~ident@ecj87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 13:34:24 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw 13:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: if it is too reduced it would be less fun, because you get redundant engines 13:35:18 <Belugas> meeehh... that is what I call removing my argument... 13:36:02 <planetmaker> DBan, DBBn, DBBe, DBCe, DBDe, 3rdR 13:36:20 <planetmaker> where 3rdR probably DBc3 13:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no heavy unelectrified?! 13:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that removes like 80% of the non-electric engines 13:37:31 <planetmaker> hm... how does it 'remove' them? 13:40:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: add DBCn to that list, and "cheat" some of the DB engines to lower track class (D->C) 13:42:24 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if at all, remove DBBe from that list, as almost all electrified lines were eligible for 20t, except some of the badensian ones (Wehratalbahn) 13:49:25 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:49:28 <planetmaker> Well... strictly necessary are only DBAn, DBCn, DBCe, DBDe - and maybe DBdn 13:50:15 <planetmaker> though it doesn't make sense to have the C class faster than the D class 13:54:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:58:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000054.html <-- I'd like to recommend you to read that article (again) ;-) 13:58:10 <planetmaker> ;-) 13:58:39 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm exactly working on that problem now, in a whole other context 13:58:47 <planetmaker> :-) 13:59:48 <andythenorth> is it related to newgrf legacy support in your view? 14:03:19 <planetmaker> that was what I thought of, yes 14:04:11 <andythenorth> I suspect that all of these newgrf discussions jump to black and white 14:04:18 <andythenorth> when maybe the situation is more subtle 14:04:31 <andythenorth> but the subtle parts are hard because there are so many edge cases 14:05:37 <planetmaker> yes 14:05:55 <planetmaker> but we're not in a rush either and we can work out the subtle things and parts 14:06:03 <planetmaker> it needs not big jump all at once 14:06:27 <planetmaker> A big jump would also always haunt us 14:06:37 <planetmaker> And be quite bad for the community 14:07:23 <planetmaker> as it would be at least divided then ;-) 14:07:35 <andythenorth> ha 14:07:41 <andythenorth> but we could plan for a big jump in future 14:08:01 <andythenorth> really the big jump is probably made up of smaller behaviours 14:08:36 <planetmaker> as usual ;-) 14:08:52 <andythenorth> frosch already wrote the grftopia spec 14:09:01 <andythenorth> but that is really a *big* project :O 14:10:07 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 14:11:03 <planetmaker> well, it is. There's generally A LOT which can be done 14:11:06 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e090e25.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:11:08 <planetmaker> it 'just' needs doing 14:14:26 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you should add extension to your patches 14:14:29 <Ammler> .diff 14:14:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: how do i rename them? 14:14:52 <Ammler> hg qrename 14:15:56 <Ammler> it is better for the syntax highlighter 14:16:06 <Ammler> and afaik also for downloading... 14:24:18 * planetmaker must resist to write a flame reply: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=958995#p958995 14:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i added 4 possible track schemes to the tracking table 14:25:20 <andythenorth> planetmaker: don't reply :) 14:25:35 <andythenorth> it's trivial to break the game by switching grfs 14:25:41 <andythenorth> he just got lucky :P 14:26:20 <planetmaker> well. He writes himself "I only managed twice..". Multiply that by the amount of users, with a 1% reporting it and divide that by time and developer ;-) 14:26:55 <andythenorth> microsoft probably don't take freedom from users on a whim either 14:27:17 <andythenorth> about 5 years ago I started noticing how many really insanely good programmers had spent time at ms 14:27:32 <andythenorth> and how much respect people who know have for ms 14:27:51 <andythenorth> not liking ms products or brand is one thing 14:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean like it took them 10 years to introduce a feature that blocks non-administrators from installing random software? 14:28:25 <planetmaker> download count is ~100000 / year or so for major versions 14:28:40 *** Pixa [~Pixa@79-68-108-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:39 <planetmaker> hm... 1.0.5 is funny. 250000 downloads. Way more than 1.0.0 or 1.1.1 14:29:58 <andythenorth> probably got linked somewhere 14:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the last .x is available for much longer time 14:30:07 <andythenorth> and that 14:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: 6 months instead of 2 14:30:31 <planetmaker> probably that's it indeed 14:31:42 <planetmaker> though... this week 1.0.0: 1000; 1.0.5: 160; 1.1.0: 60; 1.1.1: 14180. 14:32:01 <planetmaker> Why is 1.0.0 relatively high? Probably because of its special number 14:32:59 <__ln__> http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/blast-rips-through-norways-capital-injuries-reported/ 14:33:05 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 14:33:19 <__ln__> http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7722919 14:33:31 <planetmaker> no-one downloaded nforenum this week 14:33:51 * planetmaker wonders whether NML should get a similar download link like grfcodec / nforenum 14:35:00 <Alberth> so they also get 0 downloads :p 14:35:15 <planetmaker> :-) 14:35:45 <planetmaker> Nah, I'm actually meanwhile quite surprised how many people start to pickup NML 14:35:54 <planetmaker> it starts to become established 14:36:56 <planetmaker> so, seems to be a useful project to more than just three newgrf authors ;-) 14:38:55 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:39:30 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 14:39:32 <andythenorth> so 14:39:34 <andythenorth> over time 14:39:35 <Alberth> You expect that new authors would prefer long unreadable sequences of hex numbers rather than something with words? 14:39:54 <andythenorth> more and more people will post the newgrf developer tools workaround :) 14:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> more moderators will edit that out of their posts :p 14:41:02 *** tneo [~tneo@178.63.83.101] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 14:41:02 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 14:41:02 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 14:41:02 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 14:41:02 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 14:41:02 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:41:02 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Ehm.. Quit? What's That?] 14:41:02 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: You must construct additional PYLONS to get me back!] 14:41:02 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: So long, and thank's for all the fish] 14:41:02 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://dev.openttdcoop.org - never quits] 14:41:02 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 14:41:02 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 14:41:12 <Eddi|zuHause> there they go... 14:42:05 <Alberth> openttdcoop is not so stable :p 14:43:27 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:43:27 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:43:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-30-154.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:43:41 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:43:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 14:44:21 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:44:56 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:45:29 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:45:56 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:45:56 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:45:56 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:45:59 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 14:46:07 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:46:26 *** avdg [~avdg@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:46:56 *** DJNekkid [~djnekkid@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: renaming done (i think) 14:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: so what's the next step in getting the CF to build it? bug Rubidium? 14:50:25 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: fixing the CF 14:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds fun :p 14:52:07 <Rubidium> buildbot doesn't seem to like multiple 'pollers' for building from different repositories, which is more or less where I got stuck 14:53:01 <Ammler> http://hg.openttdcoop.org/openttd-vehiclevars.mq <-- in any case, this would be the repo for CF 14:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.gsmhelpdesk.nl/read.php?id=6221&ch=1 <- "net neutrality" in dutch: "we can't block skype anymore, so we limit bandwidth to 0.1Mbps" 14:56:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's more like: well, these phone users used to sponsor internet with calling, but now they don't call anymore so the income from the internet must equal the costs, instead of the income for internet being vastly smaller than the costs 14:57:55 <Rubidium> and basic demand and supply mechanism correcting for a shift in demand 14:59:39 <MNIM> simple solution: do not build phones with net access. problem solved >.< 15:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: that's like the GDR producing colour TVs without PAL support 15:01:59 <MNIM> what? 15:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> colour TV had originally 3 different standards: german PAL, french SECAM and american NTSC 15:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the russians licensed the french SECAM system, and forced it upon all eastern european countries 15:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> including east germany, which would rather have used the (better) PAL system 15:03:40 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:03:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> now TV sets can easily support both SECAM and PAL, since they are not hugely different, but since only west german TV was broadcast in PAL, and watching west german TV was generally frowned upon (but not actually forbidden) 15:04:44 <Eddi|zuHause> so some braindead officials tried to push colour TVs without PAL support into the market 15:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody actually bought them :p 15:04:57 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 15:05:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (no PAL support means west german TV can only be watched in black&white) 15:06:10 <planetmaker> or vice versa ;-) 15:06:25 <planetmaker> As kid I always wondered why the DDR-TV was always only b&w 15:06:38 <MNIM> lol 15:07:12 <MNIM> well, you're having a chicken&egg problem there 15:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> funnily enough, even though east german TV was broadcast in SECAM, it was actually internally processed as PAL and only converted at the last step 15:07:37 <MNIM> well that helps, lol 15:07:47 <MNIM> long live the plan economy or something 15:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly PAL was better for cutting etc. 15:08:18 <MNIM> either way, a mobile phone is not a pc, a palmtop, a tablet pc, a netbook or a laptop. it needs no internet. 15:08:35 <MNIM> I dunno, I prefer knives to cut something 15:08:47 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: what if i want to go online with my laptop through my phone? 15:09:47 <MNIM> ...that's like sending an email by posting it to a third world country, letting them open it up and sand an email to you saying you've got an email with the scanned, or even worse, typed over contents 15:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but i expect there was no real market for watching east german TV in west germany :p 15:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: but the actual point is: why should i phone with my phone, when i can skype with my phone, which is way cheaper? 15:10:49 <planetmaker> I expect not. Maybe for "SandmÀnnchen" 15:10:58 <MNIM> because you don't have internet ;) 15:11:05 <MNIM> I don't have, anyway 15:11:18 <MNIM> if I did though, I can't say I wouldn't (i'm a cheap-ass) 15:11:59 <MNIM> but that isn't my fault for misusing an internet connection, that's the company's fault for funding internet with it's phone revenue. 15:12:14 <fjb> Polizeiruf 110 15:12:18 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: used to be cheaper because voice paid for data 15:12:19 <MNIM> EG poor market strategy, suck it, you corporate bitches! 15:13:26 <MNIM> we'll have another such dilemma soon, though 15:14:03 <MNIM> when it starts to occur to people that watching tv on your pc is far cheaper than having a separate tv subscription 15:15:25 <MNIM> augh, which *moron* at loki decided that the enter key is a valid option for scrolling through a text file? 15:15:36 * fjb didn't switch his tv on for three month. 15:16:11 <MNIM> I used to for movies 15:16:12 <Rubidium> fjb: what a waste of electricity 15:16:37 <MNIM> but every time I watch a movie on a commercial channel I remember again why I like to torrent shit 15:16:50 <fjb> My tv really wastes electricity. 15:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> politicians are stupid... they put up an internet vote how to name a tunnel, and then get completely crazy when the outcome turns to be "Bud Spencer Tunnel" 15:21:08 <MNIM> why would that be an outrage? 15:21:11 <MNIM> also lol hacked 15:28:23 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.176.96] has joined #openttd 15:31:51 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=959032#p959032 <-- Eddi|zuHause, do you think that's an appropriate reply? 15:33:28 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:33:42 *** Juo_ [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:42 *** Juo [~Juo@87-194-64-202.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:32 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:42:11 <MNIM> oh that felt so good 15:42:22 <MNIM> just ripping apart some bots in ut 15:42:33 <MNIM> pointless death and destruction! 15:47:40 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:48:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what's wrong with it? 16:01:20 <planetmaker> not helpful and needlessly sarcastic 16:01:54 <planetmaker> i.e. IMHO a clear case of "better not answered at all" 16:02:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's the closest to "i certainly won't explain game exploits to you" 16:02:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:58 <planetmaker> it's an honest question which deserves a better answer. Or none 16:03:33 <planetmaker> and if "you won't explain it" then simply don't. But don't spill acid 16:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the problem, though 16:04:52 <planetmaker> nor do I see that with a proper explanation 16:10:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f56fe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:18:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:24:40 <Alberth> one step closer to rotated airports! 16:25:20 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes... in principle it's all possible already. Though the easy path via a rotation-variable for the tiles themselves is not yet there 16:25:42 <planetmaker> thus one has to go currently via different airport tiles in the different layouts 16:26:00 <planetmaker> something which holds me back a bit 16:29:33 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:37 *** snorre [~snorre@c6529BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:50 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:32:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:33:42 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:43:05 <planetmaker> http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/trackspeed.png <-- meh @ trackspeed 16:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i totally feel with you :) 16:45:14 <planetmaker> but the max speed seems to be inserted there automatically 16:45:59 <MNIM> nutracks does that already 16:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> we could also do a version without max speed 16:46:48 <planetmaker> OpenTTD does that, MNIM 16:47:17 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: yes, possibly. It could simply be set via parameter 16:47:26 <planetmaker> but... not now :-) 16:47:46 <planetmaker> First I want to get it roughly into a form that track types can be added somewhat easily 16:51:09 <planetmaker> @logs 16:51:09 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 16:55:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D13E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:27 <frosch123> [18:25] <planetmaker> thus one has to go currently via different airport tiles in the different layouts <- why? 17:05:50 <planetmaker> frosch123: I can't query the airport's rotation from tile level 17:06:01 <planetmaker> err_not_implemented ;-) 17:06:04 <frosch123> the rotation i available in var40 of the airport 17:06:17 <planetmaker> yes. But no parent scope 17:06:19 <planetmaker> for tiles 17:07:40 <frosch123> hmm, ok 17:07:56 * frosch123 wonders what was the reason for that 17:07:58 <planetmaker> that's not done yet as towns for example would be similarily valid 17:08:13 <planetmaker> stations have no station tiles 17:08:35 <planetmaker> thus something has to be made up or decided for airports 17:08:40 <frosch123> so we need multiple related objects 17:08:44 <planetmaker> like two parent scopes. yes 17:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you query the parent scope's parent scope? 17:09:48 <frosch123> no :p 17:09:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. airport tile -> airport -> town 17:09:57 <planetmaker> currently not. And there's no feature where there's a parent's parent scope 17:10:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: industry tiles 17:10:27 * planetmaker suggests grandparent scope. Oh, right :-) 17:10:45 <Eddi|zuHause> oma! 17:10:51 <frosch123> anyway, i remember there were at least two useful alternative scopes for vehicles 17:11:15 <planetmaker> previous and head? 17:11:23 <frosch123> first articulated part and engine-providing-the-engineoverride 17:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which, can the parameter for a 60+var be a value calculated with a varaction2? 17:12:26 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: variable 7b 17:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> because i kinda need the parameter to be "-(position in vehid chain)" 17:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause> or similar 17:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> might be an obiwan in there 17:15:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc2-aztw3-0-0-cust93.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:21:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:29:28 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 17:38:27 <planetmaker> hm, so it seems the GUI sprites for railtypes are unessential... luckily actually 17:39:52 *** MNIM [~LiesLies@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: They see you trollin, they bannin'] 17:41:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:43:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like the gui sprites to not be replaced actually 17:43:15 *** MNIM [~LiesLies@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:26 <planetmaker> So do I 17:45:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22681 /trunk/src/lang/greek.txt: 17:45:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:40 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 2 changes by fumantsu 17:52:32 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd 17:56:57 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:58:45 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 18:03:00 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:08 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 18:12:11 <__ln__> http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,776061,00.html 18:15:25 <frosch123> why is a finish guy linking to news about norway written in german? 18:15:34 *** Juo [~Juo@cpc11-acto2-2-0-cust244.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe he didn't find a french news 18:16:18 <planetmaker> haha :-) 18:16:38 <planetmaker> I guess that's called 'global village' 18:17:29 <frosch123> (note that reading norwegian news about norway would be fine, just like reading foreign news about your home country) 18:17:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:37 <__ln__> i chose a widely spoken language because i assumed many of us can't read norwegian 18:21:01 <planetmaker> ach so :-) 18:21:29 * planetmaker spontaneously would assume another language being more widely understood among the participants of this channel 18:21:33 <planetmaker> ;-) 18:23:22 * __ln__ looks for news articles in dutch 18:23:24 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:39 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 18:25:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has joined #openttd 18:26:12 <andythenorth> efenink 18:27:01 <planetmaker> h'andy ;-) 18:27:39 <Chris_Booth> nice and handy XD 18:27:55 <planetmaker> Hirundo: thanks for spec update wrt the random bits in CB 0x3B 18:28:10 <planetmaker> I somewhat was distracted and forgot ;-) 18:28:44 <Alberth> efenink andy 18:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... i can make a game desync based on transparency settings? (var 1B) 18:45:05 <Terkhen> depends on how (if) openttd implements it 18:46:05 <frosch123> ottd intentionally does not implement that variable :) 18:46:05 <Rubidium> I guess nobody used it yet and/or it never came up in the reviews of settings that affect MP stability 18:46:34 <frosch123> oh crap, it does 18:47:13 <frosch123> we only disabled the "current railtype of the gui" 18:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it should probably be returning a fixed value in multiplayer 18:49:30 <Terkhen> heh :P 18:50:14 *** goblin [~goblin@dslb-092-075-244-040.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:52:11 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 5.0/20110615151330]] 18:52:26 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:54:31 <planetmaker> which var 0x1B? 18:54:43 <frosch123> newgrf.cpp:5171 18:56:17 <planetmaker> hm, interesting 18:56:28 <planetmaker> indeed we should just generally disable it, I think 18:56:45 <frosch123> just adding comments :) 18:56:54 <planetmaker> :-) 18:58:44 <planetmaker> interestingly it does / did only implement 6 bits - which transparency now has 7 meanwhile 18:58:52 <planetmaker> actually... 9 18:59:18 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22682 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Disallow accessing variable 1B due to desync reasons. 18:59:46 <planetmaker> \o/ 18:59:52 <frosch123> planetmaker: the wiki only documents the original 6 18:59:59 <frosch123> though ttdp actually has more as well 19:07:15 <planetmaker> hm... shouldn't more of those global variables be documented in the NewGRF wiki? 19:08:04 <frosch123> planetmaker: some are documented on varact2 page, some on action7 page, and some on actiond page 19:08:10 <frosch123> depending on where they are useful 19:08:36 <frosch123> there is a item in to TODO list of the specs wiki to explain these interactions 19:09:47 <andythenorth> hmm 19:09:53 <andythenorth> maybe I should work on FIRS 19:09:54 <frosch123> btw. i think we need some small icons indicating ottd support "no", "0.6", "0.7", "1.0", "1.1" and ttdp support "2.0", "2.5", "2.6" 19:10:04 <frosch123> + "no" 19:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: there's still some dependency stuff not right. like i just changed a pnml file in src/templates, but it didn't rebuild 19:11:29 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, that might be my fault. 19:12:02 <planetmaker> nice idea, frosch123. 19:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think Uwe had such icons in his signal guide 19:13:30 <planetmaker> yes, I thought of some like those 19:14:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yes, something like that, but with the version 19:14:13 <frosch123> and also some explicit "no support" signs 19:14:52 <planetmaker> the global vars should move away from action7 19:15:08 <planetmaker> separate page? 19:15:27 <frosch123> planetmaker: not sure 19:15:42 <planetmaker> it's quite cluttered now... 19:15:42 <frosch123> the actiond ones are very specific 19:15:59 <frosch123> iirc there are even writeonly ones 19:16:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: disregard my last complaint, it was me not actually including the file where it should be 19:16:31 <planetmaker> :-) 19:16:59 <planetmaker> frosch123: yes... the write-able ones are definitely specifc. Write-only... interesting... which? 19:17:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i managed to get completely invisible vehicles now! :) 19:17:13 <frosch123> planetmaker: however, maybe it would work if the table had columns for availability in action 2, 6, 7, 9 and D 19:17:14 <planetmaker> the 32px wagon width in depots? 19:17:34 <planetmaker> that's an idea 19:18:07 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: old shoe in new boxes? ;-) 19:18:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: 9f (ttdp only) 19:18:26 <frosch123> "Reading this variable isn't reliable, so you must only write to it." 19:18:47 <planetmaker> :-) 19:19:03 <TWerkhoven> lol 19:19:13 <planetmaker> I'll first create a summary page, I guess. Then one can merge that into the single pages where it might be referenced 19:21:01 <frosch123> hmm is orudge around already? 19:21:22 <frosch123> if we had the parser extention, we could filter the list when including it in some other page 19:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> anybody got an NML syntax highlighting for Kate? 19:22:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Terkhen had not for kate but something else a list of syntax words... somewhere in the general devzone files 19:22:43 <planetmaker> or maybe in NML files section 19:23:03 <orudge> frosch123: hello 19:23:34 <frosch123> hello orudge :) we came up with some extension requirements for the wiki in the past weeks 19:23:41 <orudge> OK 19:23:49 <orudge> let me know and I'll see what I can do :) 19:24:22 <frosch123> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialInterwiki <- for linking between ottd, tt and specs wiki 19:24:33 <frosch123> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DumpHTML <- for creating offline specs 19:25:17 <frosch123> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ParserFunctions <- for conditionally doing stuff in templates 19:25:27 <planetmaker> ah, the htmldump wouldn't be bad either 19:25:38 <Terkhen> I never uploaded it :P 19:25:41 <frosch123> (extracted those from the logs) 19:26:01 <orudge> aww, none of them have Debian packages, will have to install them the old fashioned way :) 19:26:17 * Terkhen has been doing non-openttd stuff that he had been neglecting 19:26:20 <frosch123> dumphtml needs a custom cron job anyway afaik 19:27:40 <orudge> hmm, the interwiki one should be handy for language stuff, too, which I need to do at some point (on the main wiki) 19:30:51 <michi_cc> Maybe also http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList_(Wikimedia) (could be used to autogenerate the callback overview for example). 19:33:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:33:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:36:23 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 19:40:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-217-9.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i had a request for the wiki: in the TOC for the callbacks, omit the numbers before the heading 19:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Unbenannt,%201.%20Jan%202032.png <-- how do i fix this offset? it was better, before i disabled the default vehicles (which had some dualheaded vehicles) 19:43:40 <planetmaker> yes, that'd be nice. But it's an autogenerated TOC... so not that easy 19:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that only means that the generator needs to be tweaked ;) 19:44:06 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest3221 19:44:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> not that it is more difficult ;) 19:44:34 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:50:00 *** Guest3221 [~Andy@46.208.232.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:56 <orudge> frosch123: OK, they should be enabled. Interwiki stuff may require sysop permissions; I've not actually looked into it in detail right now. 19:51:13 <frosch123> all of them? :o 19:51:15 <orudge> frosch123: and dumphtml is simply a PHP script rather than an extension as such 19:51:27 <frosch123> wow, great :) 19:51:28 <orudge> all of them = Interwiki, DumpHTML, ParserFunctions, DynamicPageList 19:54:30 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:54:49 <orudge> hmm, DumpHTML may require some hacking because I don't think it expects us to have multiple wikis served from a single installation 19:55:10 <orudge> anyway, let me know if there are any issues with those extensions 19:58:46 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:58 <frosch123> he, interwiki links has a ton of defaults configured :s 19:59:05 <orudge> oh? 19:59:12 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Special:Interwiki 19:59:26 <frosch123> i wonder whether we should delete most of them, or just not bother :) 19:59:27 <orudge> hm, so it does 20:00:33 <orudge> I would probably suggest removing them, to be honest 20:01:08 * orudge pokes around 20:03:47 <orudge> well, I've emptied the interwiki tables 20:04:10 <orudge> feel free to add any new ones :) 20:14:32 <frosch123> :) 20:15:08 *** lpj [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:15:27 <lpj> hi 20:16:42 <lpj> came here to ask if anybody have problem open openttd after the Mac update to OS Lion? 20:17:39 *** lpj [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [] 20:17:41 * andythenorth won't be upgrading to that 20:17:46 <andythenorth> for n reasons 20:17:48 <planetmaker> dunno,... my god is he impatient 20:18:02 <orudge> OpenTTD seemed to work OK on Lion when I tested it 20:18:12 * andythenorth applies cba 20:18:23 <planetmaker> I'll only test it next week... my new HDD only arrives on Monday :-P 20:18:41 <planetmaker> And I'll not jeopardize this system ;-) 20:18:45 <andythenorth> no PowerPC apps == no photoshop 20:18:46 <orudge> well, I had one of the Lion pre-releases installed for testing purposes, and indeed now have Lion final installed on my external disk for testing purposes 20:18:51 <andythenorth> no photoshop == no pixels 20:19:09 <andythenorth> also my excel won't work anymore 20:19:12 <orudge> the new SDK/compiler/XCode breaks lots of stuff, though, that Wine relies on 20:19:18 <andythenorth> so screw Lion :P 20:19:19 <orudge> so won't be upgrading on my main system for a while yet 20:19:26 <planetmaker> he 20:19:34 <orudge> andythenorth: I guess you have relatively old Excel... 2004? 20:19:39 <andythenorth> yup 20:19:43 <planetmaker> I guess that'll be how I handle it too: keep lion on the external HDD 20:19:49 <andythenorth> I used to be early upgrader 20:19:52 <planetmaker> at least for some time 20:19:52 <andythenorth> now I don't care 20:21:03 <planetmaker> frosch123: how is action6 important for those variables? 20:26:44 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Quit: The Third Tiberium War - http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-third-tiberium-war] 20:27:05 <frosch123> planetmaker: action6 works with the action79d variables as well 20:27:15 <frosch123> though i am not sure about the usefulness :) 20:27:32 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Ottd <- subjective comments? 20:28:02 <orudge> oh, hmm 20:28:07 <orudge> wrong channel, whoops 20:29:08 <andythenorth> how do I svn revert? 20:29:34 <frosch123> svn revert list-of-files 20:29:45 <andythenorth> so there's no recursive or -a option? 20:29:47 <frosch123> or svn revert -r list-of-dirs 20:29:58 <frosch123> svn revert -R . 20:30:05 <andythenorth> yay 20:30:10 <andythenorth> it's case sensitive :P 20:30:23 <andythenorth> I did google for that first, but found bad advice 20:31:28 <frosch123> hmm, what prefix should we use for links to the ottd wiki? 20:31:30 <planetmaker> frosch123: the no I'd indicate by a red x over the icon 20:31:33 <planetmaker> it's also smaller 20:31:37 <planetmaker> which it shouldn't be 20:31:44 <frosch123> i just used "ottd" for the compatibility template 20:32:21 <frosch123> hmm, let's try the parser extension 20:32:35 <planetmaker> hm, so it's actually the text within that image? 20:32:55 <frosch123> what? 20:32:56 <planetmaker> sorry, I only meant the icon, not the template use 20:33:24 <planetmaker> the template looks very fine. Just the 'no support icon' I'd graphically change a bit :-) 20:39:38 <frosch123> hmm, how to draw a cross with gimp? 20:39:44 <frosch123> some things are easier with paint :p 20:40:29 <frosch123> let's use the text tool and write â :p 20:40:58 <planetmaker> :-) 20:43:44 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:08 <frosch123> planetmaker: maybe put the readonly/writeonly in a speical action d column? 20:50:04 <planetmaker> hm, I where do I find the svn revs of the single tags? 20:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> svn log svn.openttd.org/tags/blah --limit 1 20:52:39 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Ottd <- updated 20:52:54 <frosch123> orudge: parser extension works :) 20:53:27 <orudge> frosch123: excellent 20:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: svn info svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.0 20:55:45 <planetmaker> thx, Eddi|zuHause. I actually needed all :-) 20:55:49 <planetmaker> but it helped 20:56:17 <planetmaker> frosch123: you mean yet another column for that... ? 20:57:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: for i in svn ls ... 20:57:55 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Template:Ttdp <- analogue template 20:58:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: finger.openttd.org 20:58:03 <planetmaker> svn log http://.../tags 20:58:04 <frosch123> planetmaker: yes 20:58:19 <frosch123> to avoid duplication of the vars 20:58:31 <planetmaker> duplication? There's none? 20:58:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:58:55 <frosch123> there are two "8E B Y-Offset for train sprites " 20:59:27 <planetmaker> ah, oversight. I'd only keep it in the writable section 20:59:27 <frosch123> wrt. columns you would need another column for the varact2 variable number anyway 20:59:47 <planetmaker> varact2 variable number? Not the same? 20:59:48 <frosch123> so, maybe a column for varact2 stating the variable 21:00:06 <frosch123> a column for act 6/7/9/d stating the variable 21:00:22 <frosch123> and a column for actiond specifiying writeaccess and writeonly 21:00:51 <frosch123> hmm, actuelly act 6/7/9 is the same as readaccess 21:01:28 <frosch123> "var2 number, var679d number, readaccess, writeaccess, size, description" ? 21:01:39 <planetmaker> hm... so idea: read access / write access columns 21:02:07 <planetmaker> a whole read access number for one line's sake? 21:02:10 <planetmaker> sounds overdoing it 21:02:17 <frosch123> bah, 85 and 88 are special 21:02:20 <planetmaker> and limiting needlessly the screen width 21:02:22 <frosch123> they are 7&9 only :p 21:02:53 <frosch123> but maybe that could fit into footnotes 21:03:31 <frosch123> then write-only would suffice a footnote as well 21:05:28 <planetmaker> well... the 2 7&9 only and write-only could go to footnotes or comment, indeed 21:06:12 <planetmaker> but you mean 84 is special, not 85, right? 21:06:37 <frosch123> 85 is speical 21:06:43 <frosch123> you can only use it with bittest operators 21:06:51 <frosch123> as it is a 128 bit variable or so 21:07:25 <frosch123> 84 works in 6 and d, though quite useless :p 21:07:49 <frosch123> though i would not document it as supported in 2 21:07:56 <frosch123> as that makes even less sense :) 21:11:53 <planetmaker> hm... I still like the action column. But maybe I can indicate write access by D by using a bold D there 21:12:14 <planetmaker> or call the 'action' column 'access' column 21:12:24 <planetmaker> and explain its meaning in a footnote 21:12:47 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@host86-145-92-120.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:12:54 *** Zephyris [~Zephyris_@host86-145-92-120.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 21:14:25 <planetmaker> I'm not convinced that action6 needs special mentioning. Each actionD allows also action6 21:17:09 <Terkhen> good night 21:18:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c31:286:537c:6d70] has joined #openttd 21:18:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 21:19:55 <planetmaker> g'night Terkhen 21:20:47 <planetmaker> wth actually are the 'tile refresh offset' variables? 21:24:31 <frosch123> they control what screen area is redrawn when a tile is marked dirty 21:24:48 <frosch123> resp. what tiles to draw if a certain screen area needs redrawing 21:24:54 <frosch123> ottd does not implement them 21:25:16 <frosch123> ttdp implements one of the two aspects, so too big sprites still glitch 21:25:33 <planetmaker> he ok, thanks :-) 21:51:16 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:30 <planetmaker> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables <-- hm... looks funky 21:57:48 <frosch123> :p 21:59:21 <frosch123> oh, the a3 and a4 descriptions wrt. "game load year" only apply to action 679d, not 2 21:59:30 <frosch123> maybe merging is more tricky :p 22:03:58 <planetmaker> he, right 22:04:34 <planetmaker> but apropos: isn't the same then true for var 81? 22:04:56 <planetmaker> it should have the same restrictions as A3 and A4? 22:05:26 <frosch123> yup, it says so, doesn't it? 22:05:56 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:30 <Rubidium> doesn't 81 only give a game load year for MP? But just the year in SP? 22:07:19 <planetmaker> yes 22:07:29 <planetmaker> oh, difference MP / SP? Hm 22:07:30 <frosch123> if (_networking) { <- yup 22:07:37 <planetmaker> frosch123: it didn't before 22:07:47 <planetmaker> ok, I'll adjust that then, too 22:10:25 <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Footnotes <- we should use that 22:16:09 <michi_cc> We miss http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Cite/Cite.php then. 22:16:36 <frosch123> orudge: ^^ :) 22:16:59 <frosch123> i think these footnotes look nice 22:17:23 <frosch123> they link each other, you can insert the notes anywhere (i.e. in every section, not only the bottom) 22:17:32 <frosch123> and you can use the same footnote multiple times 22:17:59 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-77-37-203-211.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:19:07 <planetmaker> yes, would make perfect sense 22:19:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:22:40 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-007-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:32:51 <planetmaker> good night 22:33:17 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-30-154.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:41:16 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:42:32 *** pugi [~pugi@p4FCC3AC1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 22:46:29 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0826d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:47:53 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 22:51:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-217-9.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:24 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:02:45 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@cpc7-newt30-2-0-cust37.newt.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:37 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 23:25:12 *** Sacro [~Ben@cpc2-mfld9-0-0-cust880.13-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:55:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1DA86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:47 <frosch123> planetmaker: tried a different layout for the table 23:57:08 <frosch123> when adding spaces between the icons, it does not look that bad actually 23:58:03 <frosch123> though i wonder whether we should add another template which combines both icons, so every version-specific paragraph always states ttdp and ottd support status 23:58:43 <frosch123> maybe it could also optionally take revision arguments to create a formatting as for var23/24