Config
Log for #openttd on 5th August 2011:
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02:08:22  <phatmatt> hi, is anyone here able to fix up a pre-openttd.org-account-merge flyspray account? i've forgotten the password :(
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04:49:49  <andythenorth> morning
04:52:02  <SmatZ> morning
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06:03:25  <planetmaker> moin
06:04:14  <planetmaker> phatmatt: what account would I be looking for?
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07:07:58  <phatmatt> planetmaker: username should be 'icosikai'; hopefully it has one of my email addresses attached to it
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07:16:23  <planetmaker>  I'm afraid I don't see such user
07:17:00  <phatmatt> hmm
07:17:09  <phatmatt> http://bugs.openttd.org/user/828
07:18:57  <planetmaker> oh, capital "I". You're sure you spellt your login correctly with the correct capitalization?
07:19:19  <planetmaker> when you tried to login?
07:22:08  <phatmatt> i'll try again, but pretty sure I did
07:23:57  <planetmaker> hm... maybe it's indeed stored somewhere entirely different when it's from the pre-merge.
07:24:11  <planetmaker> I'm afraid I don't find it with captal I either
07:24:14  <phatmatt> if it's a hassle don't worry, i'll just make a new one
07:24:18  <phatmatt> ok, np
07:24:52  <planetmaker> ok :-)
07:25:31  <phatmatt> thanks for looking into it, at least now i get a fancy pants unified login account
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07:32:27  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
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08:03:20  <Terkhen> good morning
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08:25:05  <dihedral> morning Terkhen
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08:51:44  <dihedral> scientific linux \o/
08:52:02  <dihedral> at least the stick to their release dates (+/- a week)
08:52:07  <dihedral> other than centos :-P
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09:10:07  <__ln__> wtf http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2022322/The-massive-European-network-Stone-Age-tunnels-weaves-Scotland-Turkey.html
09:10:26  <__ln__> that doesn't make any sense
09:11:42  <andythenorth> the domain name tells me that much
09:12:23  <andythenorth> your comment is a tautology, given the domain name
09:12:29  <andythenorth> it would hold for any story on that domain
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11:13:43  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: For your mb problem: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/alternate_label2.patch
11:14:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll take a look at that later
11:16:21  <duckblaster1> ouch: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/08/05/white-trash-repairs-and-i-thought-my-bike-seat-was-uncomfortable/
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12:32:55  <andythenorth> hola
12:33:48  <andythenorth> hmm
12:33:49  <andythenorth> e
12:34:06  <andythenorth> every time I ask for multi-stop docks, they probably get less likely :P
12:36:48  <Hirundo> you mean docks with a state machine, like airports, or multiple docks per station like current road stops?
12:38:04  <planetmaker> both ;-)
12:38:41  <planetmaker> The "best" solution probably would be to have docks which define the adjacent tiles where ships can dock
12:39:21  <andythenorth> 'someone' was threatening to do multi-stop like current road stops
12:39:27  <andythenorth> probably with 3 per dock
12:39:33  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't think that's a good solution at all. any change to that will block introduction of statemachines later
12:39:40  <andythenorth> add permit multiple docks per station
12:39:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause was multi-stop you, or mr 1138?
12:39:54  <andythenorth> one of you suggested it
12:39:58  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but... do we want / need state machines for ports?
12:40:07  <andythenorth> yes
12:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> suggest, yes... implement? no :p
12:40:15  <planetmaker> :-D
12:40:17  <andythenorth> planetmaker: in the far distant future
12:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm pretty sure we do want that
12:40:34  <andythenorth> new_whatever_ports_is_called is a utopian vision
12:40:50  <andythenorth> we may not get there, but the journey alone might be interesting :P
12:44:45  <andythenorth> grrr
12:44:49  <andythenorth> why do I read forums?
12:44:55  <andythenorth> rage probably shortens my life
12:47:14  <Eddi|zuHause> don't ever read this forum then: :p http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=4236
12:47:36  <planetmaker> :-O
12:48:03  <planetmaker> that *might* shorten life even more
12:49:30  <Hirundo> huh :o how did that happen?
12:50:07  <andythenorth> he
12:50:19  <andythenorth> stalled on a gradient?
12:50:27  <andythenorth> wheelslip limiter didn't kick in apparently
12:50:51  <andythenorth> hmm
12:51:26  <peter1138> crazy
12:51:42  <dihedral> yes you are ^^
12:51:50  * andythenorth ponders
12:53:51  <andythenorth> hmm
12:53:58  <andythenorth> thought I'd better lay down some facts: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=962409#p962409
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13:08:02  <planetmaker> hm, coffee, tea or cookie, andythenorth ? ;-)
13:08:16  <andythenorth> tea
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13:09:10  <planetmaker> that's perfect. I just happend to make some new one :-)
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13:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's cool that nml gives the actual file as error location, but it misses the "included from <x>" part
13:20:33  <Hirundo> Is it possible to deduce that info from the CPP output?
13:20:51  <Rubidium> it probablyis
13:21:37  <Rubidium> it adds filenames and offsets in some format to the files
13:21:49  <Rubidium> so from that data it ought to be possible to deduce a 'trace'
13:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause> gcc must do that somehow...
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13:25:14  <Hirundo> At a quick glance it seems indeed possible, but I don't have time to look into it right now
13:25:31  <Hirundo> Could you file a feature request at the NML issue tracker?
13:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> have a link?
13:27:34  <Hirundo> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/issues
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14:00:58  <andythenorth> bbl
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16:23:01  <frosch123> is anyone in here running a tiling window manager?
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16:24:07  <blathijs> frosch123: Yes
16:24:12  <blathijs> (awesome)
16:24:21  <frosch123> i consider using one too
16:24:41  <frosch123> which one is the "default" debian one?
16:25:18  <frosch123> "default" as in most-likely integrated with other stuff
16:26:10  <frosch123> best-maintained or simliar
16:26:17  <blathijs> Not sure, awesome works for me rather well
16:26:38  <blathijs> though I use it without the GNOME taskbar and menu stuff
16:27:29  <Ammler> is awesome the wm for gnome?
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17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22720 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt hebrew.txt spanish.txt):
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: hebrew - 8 changes by rril
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 11 changes by Tucalipe
17:45:34  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by lpenap
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18:11:10  <Alberth> is Action14 documentation ( http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action14 ) incorrect? It says <identifier> 4*B after action 14, but the examples show an extra byte in-between
18:11:55  <Alberth> back in 30 minutes
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18:15:55  <michi_cc> Alberth: Don't confuse the table explaining the parts with the actual syntax printed above.
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18:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth/michi_cc: is this better?
18:40:17  *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@client-86-31-2-201.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:40:50  <__ln__> meanwhile in the US: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43909060/ns/today-today_people/t/hes-labeled-sex-offender-sleeping-his-own-wife/
18:41:27  <michi_cc> The description for <chunks ...> should be directly after 14 for a logical order
18:44:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's what I expected. Thanks
18:46:14  <michi_cc> Moved <chunks ...> up
18:49:04  <Alberth> so how does the first example in Descriptions fit that pattern?
18:49:53  <Alberth> "C" "CSTM", is that <chunk ...> ?
18:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the whole thing until the final 00 is the chunk#
18:53:11  <Alberth> so that example misses "C"/"B"/"T", <identifier> and all the other fields below <chunk...>  ?
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18:56:15  <Alberth> First part of the syntax, upto the table makes sense to me, but I cannot relate the fields in the table to that first part.
19:11:07  <Alberth> apparently, more people are getting confused :p
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19:23:35  <frosch123> why is there some guy on the forums trying to understand r1?
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19:25:03  * Alberth guesses he wants to build r1
19:25:31  <frosch123> you mean that functions fails to compile in r1?
19:25:36  <andythenorth> ot: I have annoying nickserv messages from my irc client when I open it
19:25:43  <andythenorth> any clues what I'm doing wrong?
19:26:09  <andythenorth> I've moved to a new laptop - same client, same nicks, different MAC address
19:26:31  <andythenorth> I've googled a bit for help
19:26:36  <Alberth> you don't log in ?
19:26:43  <andythenorth> hmm
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19:27:18  <Alberth> frosch123: given his knowledge of C/C++ pretty much anything is possible
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19:29:05  <frosch123> i wonder whether i should give him the link to ottd 0.1
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19:30:25  <frosch123> andythenorth: on wireless?
19:30:36  <andythenorth> yes
19:31:04  <andythenorth> but I'm trying to figure out irc weirdness
19:31:09  <andythenorth> sorry for flapping :(
19:31:14  <Wolf01> hello
19:31:35  <andythenorth> I am getting pissed off with getting 9 messages from nickserv every time I join the room
19:31:56  <andythenorth> "this nickname is registered, please choose a different nickname or...[truncated]"
19:32:13  <andythenorth> then "you are successfully identified as andythenorth"
19:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you copied over the config from the old computer?
19:32:20  <andythenorth> yes
19:32:51  <Eddi|zuHause> could put nickserv on ignore :p
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19:35:59  <andythenorth> hmm
19:36:08  <andythenorth> found some settings in my client to ignore messages
19:36:14  <andythenorth> may have side effects, who knows ;P
19:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> my guess is that you always got these messages, but they were hidden in some status window
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19:39:01  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: don't squander bits on crossings :P
19:39:05  <andythenorth> roadtypes need them
19:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> imho roadtypes need more bits than are available anyway
19:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and didn't i say i won't implement this?
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19:44:10  <andythenorth> :)
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19:50:31  <agelito> !dl
19:50:31  *** agelito was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
19:51:15  <Eddi|zuHause> ooooh... that didn't happen in a long time :p
19:56:43  <V453000> duh
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20:26:39  <frosch123> night
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20:52:03  <Terkhen> good night
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22:35:36  *** ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.1, 1.1.2-RC2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
22:35:36  *** mode/#openttd [+v Terkhen] by ChanServ
22:35:36  *** mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ
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22:38:03  <welshdragon> Ho hum
22:38:31  * welshdragon needs to set up his BNC on orudge's server
22:38:58  <welshdragon> now, where was i? ah yes! Can I convert a savegame into a scenario?
22:41:16  <welshdragon> (i've built up a nice track layout in IS2.1.1 and want to try to get around Chill's savegame incompatibility)
22:42:09  <planetmaker> rename the savegame extension from sav to scn
22:42:15  <planetmaker> deed done
22:42:28  <planetmaker> it's the same just a different colour (or name rather)
22:42:51  <planetmaker> but you'll not work around any savegame compatibility that way
22:43:09  <planetmaker> nor any other save hex-editing the differences
22:43:25  <welshdragon> well, all I want is the tracks
22:43:44  <welshdragon> I'm not fussed about keeping companies intact
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22:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> compile copypaste upon IS2?
22:44:34  <planetmaker> tracks are company property. company gone -> tracks gone
22:45:15  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CD21.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
22:45:24  <welshdragon> ah
22:45:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you could write a crude export routine writing tile height and trackbits into a file, and read that in chipp as a "map generator"
22:46:30  <welshdragon> or I can ask Chill to try to fix savegame compatibility :P
22:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that is not going to happen
22:47:46  <planetmaker> most probably not. It would be time not well spent
22:48:23  <welshdragon> but why? CHIPP is newer than IS2, yet it fails to load a save, which iirc normal OTTD does fine
22:48:48  <planetmaker> both are patched versions...
22:49:47  <planetmaker> and versionA says that the savegame format is like A and versionB says it is like B
22:49:56  <planetmaker> both of which are different from trunk
22:50:13  <planetmaker> both use the same version for savegames but with a different meaning
22:56:28  <welshdragon> hmm, indeed, I just changed the extension of an old save to that of a scenario, it throws up 'Unexpected End of Chunk'
22:56:55  <welshdragon> when loaded with 1.1.1 (save was from IS2.1.1)
22:58:07  <welshdragon> So, guess I can't 'update' the game  I'm playing
22:58:50  <welshdragon> (i've played said game now for 15 months, and still not 'completed' it)
23:00:50  <welshdragon> oh well, thanks PM. I'll have 'stable' internet again in 3 - 4 days, and I'll have set up my BNC again, so ciao for now!
23:01:10  *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@212.183.140.22] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
23:01:14  <planetmaker> ghost hour is over anyway. good night
23:01:45  *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:01:47  <Ammler> do ghosts respect timezones?
23:01:49  *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:04:41  <planetmaker> they walk with the time zones
23:05:02  <Wolf01> 'night
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23:22:50  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker/Ammler: are you aware that when i post a comment on the devzone it redirects me from https to http?
23:25:28  <Ammler> well, does that happen because you need to login?
23:26:06  <duckblaster> that's going from secure to non secure, not good
23:27:43  <Ammler> well, login does force you to ssl
23:27:58  <duckblaster> it should be secure all the time
23:28:06  <Ammler> and after successful login, you get redirected to where you came from
23:28:19  <duckblaster> not just when loging in
23:28:20  <Ammler> duckblaster: up to you
23:28:48  <duckblaster> cookies can be hijacked when nonsecure
23:29:13  <duckblaster> maybe not important here, but with bigger sites like facebook.......
23:34:23  <Ammler> I am not sure, if it is unsecure, as you get the cookie with ssl, right?
23:34:41  <Ammler> after that, why should it matter if you continue without
23:38:05  <Ammler> the question is rather, is the force login with ssl useless?
23:39:00  <duckblaster> the cookie is sent enencrypted, anyone on the same network (especially wireless) can get it
23:39:03  <duckblaster> and use it
23:39:11  <duckblaster> very easy
23:39:50  <duckblaster> they are then logged in, no password stealing needed
23:40:10  <Ammler> how does that matter, if with or without ssl?
23:40:24  <duckblaster> with ssl, it is not possible
23:40:31  <duckblaster> everything is encrypted
23:40:40  <duckblaster> takes years to brute force it
23:40:51  <duckblaster> no ssl, done in seconds
23:41:12  <Ammler> can you show me?
23:41:35  <duckblaster> let me find the info
23:42:15  <duckblaster> on a wireless network?
23:42:36  <Ammler> I guess, it is possible if you can setup proxy (man-in-the-middle), but then you need to tell the user that the cert is trusted
23:42:53  <duckblaster> install firesheep addon in firefox
23:43:02  <duckblaster> connect to wireless network
23:43:22  <duckblaster> log in to facebook or similar on other computer on network
23:43:29  <duckblaster> steal the cookies
23:44:09  <duckblaster> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Microsoft-responds-to-Firesheep-cookie-jacking-tool-Update-1131124.html
23:44:40  <ccfreak2k> Windows Live didn't use SSL?
23:44:50  <duckblaster> only for login i think
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23:49:31  <Ammler> well, I allow user to use ssl only, but I do not force it
23:49:52  <Ammler> I force just login and profile
23:50:52  <duckblaster> turn ssl always on as default
23:51:27  <Ammler> there are still windows user around...
23:52:05  <Ammler> maybe I find a way to force ssl after login
23:57:28  <Ammler> duckblaster: you know redmine?
23:57:36  <duckblaster> no
23:58:51  <Ammler> I have no clue how I could setup https per default but still allow http
23:59:01  *** Brianetta [~brian@188.220.91.30] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
23:59:36  <duckblaster> if logged in, check if the use https pref is set, if yes, redirect to https
23:59:50  <duckblaster> set that pref on by default

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