Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:24 <glx> you can have a full chain with only one id 00:00:39 <Yexo> there are still some optimizations to be made in NML to reduce the action2-id usage, but as long as it doesn't give you an error just continue with what you want 00:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite sure i will run into one or another limit 00:02:31 <Yexo> we'll see what we can do about that once you run into one 00:05:42 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db18ada.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:29:58 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 00:30:14 <Tatsh> planetmaker, almost there with distcc! 01:14:07 <pjpe> am i crazy or did there used to be a colour scheme in openttd called cyan 01:31:24 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 01:56:03 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:04:18 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8989:52e2:7410:b495] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:25:41 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-149-158.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:47 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-146-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:05 <Tatsh> updated https://github.com/tatsh/xchain 03:13:58 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:30:07 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 04:30:07 *** George is now known as Guest8811 04:30:07 *** George|2 is now known as George 04:35:42 *** Guest8811 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:36:13 *** pjpesfsf [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:39:20 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75659.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:31:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22894 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/cocoa_v.h: -Doc: Some sprinkles of doxygen for the cocoa video driver 05:44:31 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:12:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@0278a82f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:12:27 <Terkhen> good morning 06:12:52 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:39 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 06:21:45 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has joined #openttd 06:44:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 06:48:41 <dihedral> greetings 06:51:49 <planetmaker> hello dihedral 06:53:07 <dihedral> :-) 06:56:02 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 06:56:38 <dihedral> Mucht? well hello :-) 06:56:50 <Mucht> hi dihedral :) 07:04:11 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:10:56 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 07:10:56 *** George is now known as Guest8836 07:10:56 *** George|2 is now known as George 07:13:51 *** Guest8836 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:58 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:05 <Neon> Kommt ihr auf ups.com? 07:18:31 <__ln__> Nein danke, hier essen. 07:18:44 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:59 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:20:29 <planetmaker> Grammatikfehler, __ln__ 07:21:24 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:23:06 <peter1138> fredddieeeeee 07:28:05 <planetmaker> moin peter1138 :-) 07:28:08 <planetmaker> you mean... 07:28:11 <planetmaker> @topic get -1 07:28:11 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: English only 07:28:12 <planetmaker> ? 07:36:06 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:40:16 <pjpesfsf> is there a command in openttd to make it run for a certain number of ticks 07:40:17 <pjpesfsf> then quit 07:41:21 <planetmaker> yes 07:41:28 <planetmaker> checkout the command line help 07:41:40 <pjpesfsf> openttd -h? 07:41:42 <planetmaker> ^ 07:43:18 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:43:48 <planetmaker> hm... my advice is not as helpful as I had hoped for 07:43:53 <pjpesfsf> yeah i don't see it 07:44:06 <pjpesfsf> unless it's an option for debug 07:44:33 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:44:36 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 07:44:56 <planetmaker> I don't recall exactly, I'm afraid. Might be 07:47:01 <pjpesfsf> oh well 07:49:32 <planetmaker> try like "./openttd -v null 1000" 07:49:36 <planetmaker> or similar 07:49:57 <planetmaker> (just a random guess from my broken memory) 07:50:42 <pjpesfsf> nope 07:50:47 <pjpesfsf> just shows the help 07:51:08 <pjpesfsf> -t 1000 launches the game 07:51:13 <pjpesfsf> i have no idea if this will work 07:51:53 <pjpesfsf> about how long is 1000 ticks 07:54:03 <Hirundo> @calc 100 / 74 07:54:03 <DorpsGek> Hirundo: 1.35135135135 07:54:11 <pjpesfsf> well i'm pretty sure it didn't work anyway 07:54:18 <Hirundo> @calc 1000 / 74 07:54:18 <DorpsGek> Hirundo: 13.5135135135 07:54:26 <Hirundo> ^13.5 days 07:57:14 <planetmaker> game days 07:57:21 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:33 <planetmaker> 1000 / 74 * 30 07:57:37 <planetmaker> @calc 1000 / 74 * 30 07:57:37 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 405.405405405 07:57:41 <planetmaker> 405 seconds 07:58:03 <planetmaker> ehm... must be wrong :-) 4 seconds 07:59:24 <planetmaker> you need to ask about the option later (tonight CET possibly), pjpesfsf - then more people who could know are present 07:59:28 <planetmaker> Or post to the forums 07:59:46 <pjpesfsf> i looked through the command line scanner function and there doesn't seem to be anything about it 08:00:03 <planetmaker> yeah, I didn't see it either. But I know that I used it :-) 08:00:23 <planetmaker> it was like without graphics driver 08:13:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:13:10 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:35:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19AA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:04 <peter1138> oh, my server's not got pause on no players, heh 09:08:10 <peter1138> it's 4183 :p 09:08:14 <peter1138> i've never been on it, haha 09:11:08 *** pjpesfsf [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:34:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:18 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 09:50:04 <Terkhen> it is openttd -v null:ticks = number IIRC 09:50:07 <Terkhen> but of course he's gone :) 09:51:39 <planetmaker> yup, of course :-) 10:07:03 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/552/ <-- so... this is an idea? 10:07:33 <planetmaker> it only works with the null video driver. 10:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause> looks odd... 10:08:36 <Terkhen> you need to do something about the cookies :P 10:08:51 <planetmaker> delete your cookie related to that website 10:09:08 <Terkhen> I know, but doing that every other week is tedious :) 10:09:36 <planetmaker> yes 10:10:20 <planetmaker> I couldn't yet convince some other person that it is not my personal issue ;-) 10:10:55 <Ammler> I believe you guys, you just never told me how to fix... 10:11:05 <Terkhen> I don't know how to fix :P 10:11:09 <peter1138> seems a silly idea to document that there 10:11:11 <Terkhen> I just use paste.openttdcoop normally 10:11:19 <Terkhen> and one day, Internal Server ERror 10:11:28 <Terkhen> planetmaker: IMO it should be documented "below" 10:11:39 <peter1138> readme.txt? :S 10:11:41 <Terkhen> as part of the null video driver description 10:11:54 <planetmaker> peter1138, it makes sense IMHO in the command line help 10:12:03 <Terkhen> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/553/ 10:12:56 <peter1138> it's a hardly a common requirement 10:13:08 <planetmaker> so is using the null video driver 10:13:13 <peter1138> someone who knows they want to do that should've read the readme 10:13:39 *** betawave [5c54c88d@64.62.228.82] has joined #openttd 10:14:13 <planetmaker> confess, peter1138, you take joy in "rtfm, you lazy <whatever>" ;-) 10:14:55 <Terkhen> it's the quickest way to answer a question :P 10:17:51 <planetmaker> "To see all startup options available to you, start OpenTTD with the ./openttd -h" option. This might help you tweak some of the settings." ;-) 10:21:22 <Terkhen> "null" is describer later, IMO it should go in the null video driver description 10:22:04 *** betawave [5c54c88d@64.62.228.82] has left #openttd [] 10:22:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, parameters available to each driver should be documented in that section 10:23:06 <peter1138> yeah 10:23:22 <peter1138> extmidi could do with it too 10:23:35 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 10:23:50 * peter1138 discovers that ctrl-end gets to the end of irssi's backlog 10:26:45 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:30:41 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 10:31:31 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [] 10:34:23 *** Bandel [Someone@541986F5.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> mÀh... nmlc takes ages 11:00:57 <planetmaker> with FIRS it takes about three times as long as nforenum/grfcodec took in order to compile the version prior to conversion to NML 11:01:49 <Eddi|zuHause> > time make 11:01:51 <Eddi|zuHause> real 1m25.212s 11:01:52 <Eddi|zuHause> user 1m21.103s 11:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sys 0m3.907s 11:02:47 <Yexo> real 0m25.694s 11:02:47 <Yexo> user 0m18.250s 11:02:47 <Yexo> sys 0m1.220s 11:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> this is CETS 11:05:04 <peter1138> optimise run time, not compile time 11:05:06 <Yexo> ah, I assumed FIRS 11:05:26 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: if the makefile has the -c flag set you can disable that while developing 11:05:36 <Yexo> cropping sprites takes some extra time 11:05:58 <planetmaker> hm... ogfx+airports takes some time here, too ;-) 11:06:06 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yes, optimise the run time of the compiler ;) 11:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: planetmaker knows the makefile magic... i have no clue 11:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i just type make 11:07:07 <Yexo> it's not set 11:07:25 <peter1138> :p 11:07:26 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, make NMLFLAGS=-c 11:07:31 <planetmaker> or whatever :-) 11:07:34 <planetmaker> or nothing 11:07:44 <planetmaker> yes, -c is not set by default. I wonder whether I should 11:07:47 <Yexo> nothing is faster, including -c might result in a smaller grf 11:08:03 <Yexo> faster as in compiles faster 11:08:17 <planetmaker> Or whether I should only add -c to releases :-) 11:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, release sounds fine 11:08:39 <Yexo> yes, but we'll have to keep that in mind 11:08:49 <planetmaker> yup 11:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS sprites would very probably benefit from -c 11:09:00 <planetmaker> might trip incorrectly dealt-with sprites 11:09:06 <Yexo> it might result in subtle bugs that not reproduce able without -c 11:09:13 <planetmaker> yup 11:09:19 <planetmaker> that's what makes me hesitant 11:09:33 <planetmaker> I'll surely forget - and wonder 11:09:38 <Yexo> for CETS it's fine 11:09:56 <Yexo> the only problems that will arise are with parent/child-sprites in spritelayouts were the parent sprite is cropped 11:10:10 <planetmaker> true. Unlikely in vehicle sets :-) 11:10:39 <planetmaker> uh.... we should be VERY careful indeed adding that to FIRS 11:11:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.165.176] has joined #openttd 11:11:43 * Yexo wonders what eddi is doing with cets that makes the compile time so long 11:12:37 <planetmaker> Yexo, it has a few hundret engines, with 24(?) * n views each 11:12:39 <Yexo> hmm, final grf size: 3.4Mb 11:13:49 <planetmaker> I'm not surprised ;-) 11:14:15 <Terkhen> it already has so many engines? 11:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the really complicated stuff isn't even done yet 11:14:27 <planetmaker> maybe not hundrets... but... 11:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: the engines are autogenerated from the tracking table 11:14:38 <Yexo> "make NML_FLAGS=-c" results in a 2.3Mb grf 11:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (with dummy graphics) 11:14:39 <Terkhen> nice :P 11:14:45 <Yexo> so yes, cropping is very useful 11:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: even after cropping, lots of redundancy is left 11:15:43 <planetmaker> Terkhen, the tracking table has roughly 300+x vehicles 11:16:34 <planetmaker> @calc 2300000/330 11:16:34 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 6969.6969697 11:16:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A8C2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:49 <planetmaker> 7kByte per vehicle is not that bad, including graphics 11:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's likely going to get worse ;) 11:18:59 <planetmaker> there can be only one (direction) 11:19:21 <planetmaker> well, we should not worry about that really 11:19:35 <planetmaker> only when it "destroys" OpenTTD ;-) 11:24:48 *** Bas_Honing [~BasHoning@8-79-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 11:25:17 * Eddi|zuHause could use a callback to set the anchor point of the sprite 11:34:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:14 *** Bandel [Someone@541986F5.cm-5-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 12:11:17 *** Tatsh [~Tatsh@99-178-255-238.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has left #openttd [Lesbians] 12:13:08 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:841d:202e:24ac:12ee] has joined #openttd 12:13:11 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:13:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.165.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.165.176] has joined #openttd 12:20:41 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 12:43:55 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:44:15 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 12:44:19 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:47:47 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 13:14:00 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 13:33:16 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:31 <Yexo> given a function: void f(int arg[3]) { ...}, is it possible to call it like this: f({3, 2, 5}); (I know this doesn't work, but is there syntax that does?) 13:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> not that i know of... 13:48:04 <__ln__> not quite, but given that call syntax it is possible to declare a function matching it in C++0x. 13:48:33 <Yexo> yes, I know, unfortunately I can't use C++0x 13:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that's called C++11 nowadays? 13:49:27 <__ln__> it should be called, i suppose 13:55:35 <valhallasw> Yexo: maybe something like f(int x[]={3,2,5})? 13:55:57 <valhallasw> although I guess initializations are not assignments 13:56:37 <Yexo> valhallasw: thanks, but that doesn't work either 14:00:35 <__ln__> it's not possible, i think i would have heard about it during all these years if it was. 14:16:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:34:20 *** Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:11 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think changing offset of sprites needs to be done in something callback 36-ish that is called every movement step 14:58:21 <peter1138> write openttd in nfo 14:58:51 <planetmaker> lol, CB36-ish every movement step? 14:59:13 <planetmaker> can I have BlueGene, too? 15:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think some parts of the code already do that 15:02:23 <Yexo> that doesn't mean it's a good idea to introduce a new callback that is called for every vehicle on every tick 15:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: better than every drawing cycle 15:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that may depend on map size and vehicle count 15:03:14 <Yexo> how is that better? 15:03:19 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 15:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: but everything called less often is defeating the intended purpose 15:05:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and if you introduce a callback flag, it won't even affect performance that much, if no appropriate grf is loaded 15:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and if it is used, it is not worse than a vehicle set using the motion counter for animation 15:16:40 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:18:20 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:24:36 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 15:28:51 * Eddi|zuHause wonders about running sounds 15:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 2-cylinders: pfff-pfff, 3-cylinders: pfff-tschk-tschk, 4-cylinders: pfff-tschk-pfff-tschk (or similar) 15:30:15 <planetmaker> :-) 15:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> number of cylinders is already in the tracking table 15:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> in the TE calculation 15:52:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22895 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/wnd_quartz.mm: -Add: [OSX] Alternative code for the API calls deprecated in OSX 10.6 in the quartz video driver 16:06:36 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 16:08:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:13:13 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@0278a82f.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:20:53 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:25 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 16:38:50 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 16:42:55 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:54:13 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 17:02:52 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f55dd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:12:18 *** aq [~aq@178-27-200-32-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:12:19 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:12:56 *** aq is now known as Guest8962 17:15:40 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:15:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:18:39 *** Hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22896 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt korean.txt polish.txt portuguese.txt spanish.txt): 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: german - 2 changes by planetmaker 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813 17:45:32 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: polish - 3 changes by wojteks86 17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity 17:45:34 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 17:54:16 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 17:55:14 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:57:28 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:58:24 <Wolf01> hello 17:59:58 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 18:06:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:08:48 <andythenorth> evening 18:09:58 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:10:28 <andythenorth> yay 18:10:34 <andythenorth> new egrvts forthcoming 18:10:42 <andythenorth> persuade him to code it properly :P 18:12:32 <andythenorth> egrvts is coded properly 18:12:35 <andythenorth> but not maintainably 18:13:19 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:13:45 <Terkhen> maintainability is overrated (as long as it is coded perfectly and no one adds new features to OpenTTD) 18:23:56 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd 18:28:43 <andythenorth> hmm 18:28:49 <andythenorth> 13 million bananas downloads 18:28:53 <andythenorth> of newgrfs 18:28:56 <andythenorth> it's not a small number 18:29:39 <frosch123> yeah, compare that to 125 downloads of rc1 yesterday :p 18:29:53 * SpComb recalls his initial openttd + curl concept gui 18:30:06 <SpComb> well, libcurl 18:33:17 <Alberth> for 100 000 users, that'd be 130 newgrfs per user 18:34:26 <Terkhen> :P 18:34:36 <Terkhen> there must be a lot of people that downloads everything 18:36:41 <andythenorth> are there 100k users? 18:36:57 * andythenorth thinks there are about 20k-25k users on a rolling average 18:37:10 <andythenorth> many of which will be short-time users 18:37:29 <frosch123> that would mean the average user only plays for one week 18:37:38 <frosch123> and then never again 18:38:07 <andythenorth> what's the number behind that? I am just going on downloads of my grfs, which *might* not be reliable :D 18:38:20 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/www/en/stats 18:38:46 <Terkhen> heh, 250k for 1.0.5 18:39:02 <frosch123> Terkhen: it has not yet catched 0.6.3 18:39:24 <Terkhen> :) 18:39:47 <Terkhen> if 0.6.x releases followed the same pattern than the current ones, 0.6.3 had advantage :P 18:39:55 <frosch123> and maybe in a year 1.0.0 overtakes :p 18:40:37 <frosch123> Terkhen: if you use that measurement, then 1.0.0 is the best by far 18:40:52 <Terkhen> true :) 18:41:05 <Terkhen> people went crazy with that one 18:41:22 <frosch123> yeah, it almost broke the server :p 18:42:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: RB once made that estimate of 100K users 18:43:00 <andythenorth> we should build 'ottd phone hom' 18:43:03 <andythenorth> home /s 18:43:09 <andythenorth> but users seem not to like that :P 18:43:20 * andythenorth turns off all 'apple phone home' stuff 18:45:44 <Alberth> we are very happy with you 'phoning home' here :p 18:46:36 * Alberth hugs andythenorth 18:55:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:56:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:02:03 * andythenorth shuns physical contact :P 19:05:00 <andythenorth> is there to be any coding today? 19:05:48 <Alberth> I am coding, but for a different program :p 19:05:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:07:32 *** _1009 [~chatzilla@b85159.upc-b.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:08:19 * andythenorth experiences boredom 19:08:21 <andythenorth> this is unusual 19:10:16 <_1009> You can explain me best practices about calculating the spot where a user clicks in the cheat window? 19:10:25 * _1009 is sort of puzzled 19:13:54 <frosch123> is it a old window which does complete custom drawing? :p 19:14:30 <_1009> Eh, I think so. In the other code I'm looking at it's using uint offset = 10 + GetStringBoundingBox(buf).width; all over the place 19:15:52 <_1009> and that offset number keeps jumping... it sometimes differs by 16 even .__o" 19:19:39 <frosch123> all over the place? 19:19:42 <frosch123> i only see it once 19:19:55 <frosch123> to draw the company coloured icon after the text 19:21:25 <_1009> Right. I put another 2 instances of it in there, but it was just an illustration of how the button clicks are calculated (I think) 19:22:11 <_1009> Anyway, the real problem is that GetStringBoundingBox() doesn't return just one number... it varies a little with every click. What I am trying to do is putting two arrows at the end of a string, where you can select a company which you would like to delete 19:22:37 <_1009> And placing those arrows isn't too hard, but determining whether they have been clicked on is tricky (for me) 19:23:23 <frosch123> if the length varies, then maybe the string uses parameters, which you did not set? 19:24:24 <_1009> It uses parameters, but I did set them the first time... do I have to set them again for GetStringBoundingBox() the second time? 19:24:37 <_1009> Anyway, thanks for the tip, I'm going to look into that. 19:25:11 <Alberth> line 342: if (!IsInsideMM(x, 20, 40)) return; means 'buttons run from 20 to 40 horizontally', and '(x >= 30)' decides which button 19:25:43 <_1009> Uhu, that's what I figured Alberth 19:25:59 <_1009> The thing is, I want to introduce new buttons, after the string (so not in between 20 and 40) 19:26:11 <Alberth> of course RTL languages do stuff the other way around :) 19:26:14 <_1009> Where you can select an AI to stop (equivalent to the stop_ai command) 19:26:28 <_1009> Yea I figured that too, I made a note in the source code for supporting RTL 19:26:44 <Alberth> why not add a regular button, much easier 19:26:59 <_1009> Because there need to be two buttons, one for selecting the right AI, one for stopping it 19:27:03 <_1009> I guess. 19:27:15 <Alberth> 2 regular buttons? :p 19:27:45 <_1009> In that case I have no idea what you mean by a "regular" button :P mind you, this is one of the first pieces of OpenTTD software that I've seen 19:27:48 <Alberth> with nice text 'stop AI', which gets added to the translation system, and causes auto-resizing of the buttons 19:28:22 <Alberth> the pressable things in the intro menu would be a good example, I think :) 19:29:31 <Alberth> although it was one of the first windows to be converted, so it may be a bit non-optimal 19:30:55 <Alberth> eg line 189 intro_gui.cpp 19:31:10 <_1009> Hm. But that'd mean I'd have to convert all of the cheat menu things, and I just want to get familiair with the code a little so I can go on with another problem 19:32:00 <Alberth> why? just keep the current widget, and add two button at the bottom, wouldn't that work? 19:32:57 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 19:33:09 <_1009> I guess so, but it'd be so /different/ from everything else... I guess... 19:33:27 *** Zuu is now known as Guest8990 19:34:49 <Alberth> the cheat window is sort of a weird window :) 19:35:31 <_1009> Haha, no matter what I do I guess I'm still keeping it weird, new buttons or old buttons. 19:35:51 <_1009> The initializing a variable thing worked though, the width is at least constant now. 19:37:41 <Alberth> I am not sure stopping an AI should be considered a cheat though 19:38:12 <frosch123> Alberth: currently it is a console command :p 19:38:31 <frosch123> _1009: you could also only put a single bool switch in the cheat menu to enable the cheat 19:38:33 <Alberth> yes, and as such, I can stop an AI without cheating 19:38:39 <frosch123> then put stop buttons into the company windows 19:38:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 19:39:02 <frosch123> e.g. the change-production cheat also does not require you to select a industry in the cheat gui 19:39:04 <_1009> It's been suggested by planetmaker, I'm not sure either. If it's going to get in the trunk or not, I don't really care, for me it's just to practice C++ and to prepare a little for AIAirport-API 19:39:11 <_1009> frosch123: shit, that's a good idea. 19:39:19 <_1009> fml 19:39:23 * _1009 discards current code XD 19:39:28 <frosch123> well, i also voted for making it a cheat 19:39:44 <frosch123> as bankrupting opponents with a single click is silly :p 19:40:24 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:40:58 * Alberth was considering using the AI config window 19:41:00 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:41:17 <_1009> AI config window is probably even easier, because it only lists AIs instead of all companies 19:41:23 <frosch123> or that, would also allow you to start a new ai of your choice 19:41:58 <_1009> Alright I'm first going to look into how buttons are added to changing production 19:42:01 *** DarkSide [~name@dslb-088-077-205-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:42:58 <DarkSide> hi folks, anyone here they talk german ? 19:44:17 <pjpe> ja 19:44:18 <pjpe> sehr gut 19:44:22 <pjpe> nein! 19:44:23 <DarkSide> hi 19:44:30 <DarkSide> fein 19:44:30 <pjpe> i learn all my german from enemy territory 19:44:43 <DarkSide> ^^ 19:44:45 <DarkSide> np 19:44:54 <DarkSide> i wisper at you, ok ? 19:44:58 <andythenorth> DarkSide: there are native germans here 19:45:08 <andythenorth> if you poke them a bit, they might answer :P 19:45:43 * andythenorth isn't sure which ones are native german, and which are other northern-europe, swiss, etc :P 19:46:03 <pjpe> yeah i don't actually know german 19:46:03 <pjpe> except two or three phrases from enemy territory 19:46:03 <pjpe> which i will just shout at you over and over 19:46:08 <DarkSide> <--- nativ german ;) over 20 years ago i have lern english xD 19:46:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess you are sure they are continental :p 19:46:19 <DarkSide> learn ^^ 19:46:48 <Alberth> today sounds like a good day to practice your English again :) 19:46:49 <andythenorth> frosch123: I'm not even sure of that :P 19:46:56 <andythenorth> some of them are spookily english-sounding 19:47:12 <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if eddi is from essex :P 19:47:25 <andythenorth> dunno why 19:47:47 <andythenorth> in my experience, germans tend to speak and write english better than the english 19:47:53 <frosch123> hmm only 18 years for me to learn english 19:48:46 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh probably. Foreign people learning Dutch are way better at Dutch grammar too :) 19:48:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: if you have browsed german forums, you would also think that english men speak better german than the germans :p 19:48:53 <pjpe> germans are probably more pedantic about speaking it correctly 19:49:02 <pjpe> while english people and north americans just go hog wild with slang and weird phrases 19:49:10 <pjpe> like a bat out of hell 19:49:26 <DarkSide> pjpe look at wisper pls 19:49:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-033.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:50:11 <frosch123> well, people from us east coast remain to speak the easiest understandable english 19:50:24 <frosch123> err, west coast... 19:50:32 <pjpe> fuck the west coast 19:50:32 <DarkSide> and with out slang 19:50:49 * andythenorth learnt german once 19:50:54 <andythenorth> not succesfully 19:52:26 <andythenorth> most educated english people of a certain age know the answer to 19:52:35 <andythenorth> "wie komme ich am besten zum rathaus?" 19:52:59 <DarkSide> immer dem gruft geruch nach gehen xD 19:53:09 * frosch123 would suspect monthy python, but does not know the joke 19:53:42 <andythenorth> it's not a joke :P 19:53:45 <andythenorth> the answer is 19:53:52 <DarkSide> me too 19:54:05 <andythenorth> "nemen sie die erste strasse links. Der rathaus is auf dem linken seite" 19:55:15 <andythenorth> we all had the same german text book 19:55:19 <frosch123> well, is is a monthy python sketch? 19:55:25 <DarkSide> das rathaus, nicht der 19:55:30 <andythenorth> for some reason this all most of us can remember from 3 years of german :P 19:55:31 <frosch123> oh, a text book :p 19:55:43 <frosch123> so, i shall tell you stories about kate's flat? 19:56:52 <frosch123> though most memorisable about learning the clock: it's two to two 19:56:53 <andythenorth> well we aren't doing anything better :P 19:57:27 <Alberth> don't remember the first German lesson, but the first English was about Keith playing in the sand :) 19:57:35 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:53 <DarkSide> i looking for some help, to understand the openttd signals 19:58:15 <frosch123> actualy my english teacher in 8th grade was a native brittish. she was usually quite shocked about what kind of english we learn at school :p 19:58:29 <Alberth> DarkSide: just post the question here 19:59:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95.28.154.94] has joined #openttd 19:59:12 *** sortkrudt [~sortkrudt@158.84-48-221.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 19:59:14 <DarkSide> i search an tuturial ( best in germen ) to leanr that signals do and can combineted with other signals 19:59:16 <Alberth> DarkSide: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals <-- know that page? it looks like there is a German translation too 19:59:41 <DarkSide> sry, but that are crap .... 19:59:45 <_1009> I'm going offline again, thanks for the help Alberth, frosch123. Will continue working on that next time :3 19:59:53 <frosch123> DarkSide: http://uwe.s2000.at/ttdx/signal/index.php?lang=de&filter=ottd 20:00:05 <Alberth> http://kokolokus.de/?s=blog&v=5 <-- or this one 20:00:08 <DarkSide> they i know too ... 20:00:22 <sortkrudt> hard to be a german i guess 20:00:26 *** _1009 [~chatzilla@b85159.upc-b.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]] 20:00:38 <frosch123> we regulary recommend those two 20:00:43 <frosch123> they are the best we know :) 20:01:48 <DarkSide> they all dont help too andstanding, combination the signals, too rule the trains ..... :-( 20:02:24 <frosch123> are you searching beginner stuff or advanced stuff? :p 20:02:27 <Alberth> if you post a picture with an actual problem here or at the forum, I am sure people can explain to you what you want to know 20:02:35 <DarkSide> yup, that i do 20:03:00 <DarkSide> @frosch123 20:03:13 <DarkSide> beginer 20:03:31 <Alberth> and it would be nice if you fix the wiki too, we are too advanced to understand how the page is broken 20:04:22 <Alberth> that is, things we consider trivial may be a big stumbling block for you 20:04:34 <Alberth> but since we don't know, we cannot fix it 20:04:39 <DarkSide> ill do that, iam registert on the openttd wiki and make me my owne sandbox in my profile 20:05:01 <Alberth> thanks 20:05:52 <DarkSide> the bigest problems are all the very smal grafics of the signal 20:06:17 <DarkSide> i wish to have some bigger resulution in the wiki of them 20:07:04 <DarkSide> the ingame snapshots quality is crap ... 20:08:51 <Hirundo> In-game screenshots (Ctrl+S, png) are lossless 20:08:53 <Alberth> perhaps add a picture of the signal gui, and show with lines or so which signal is which? 20:09:45 <DarkSide> easy english pls, iam nativ german not english ... 20:10:13 <DarkSide> and i have a very long time ago learn english 20:10:21 <sortkrudt> does a larger trainstation get the goods more quickly? 20:10:31 <DarkSide> that too 20:10:35 <sortkrudt> off* 20:10:58 <frosch123> sortkrudt: the train may not be longer than the station 20:11:03 <frosch123> the rest does not matter 20:11:42 <sortkrudt> Ok. I have this twelvestation, and have seriuos problems with effectivity. To much waiting, and long waiting for exit. any ideas, or pointing direction on construction of an effective one? 20:12:12 *** Guest8990 is now known as Zuu 20:12:23 <Alberth> DarkSide: I was suggesting to add a picture of the signal gui next to the signals. Then draw a line between each signal and the button at the gui. It can also be indicated in another way of course. 20:12:46 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-28-154-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:12:58 <Zuu> Isn't a byte >= 0 by definition? 20:13:03 <Alberth> yep 20:13:27 <Zuu> Good, that was my though but I found a >= 0 check in OpenTTD :-) 20:13:47 <Alberth> typedef unsigned char byte; 20:13:50 <Zuu> It is however for a type that is typedef:ed as byte, so it could be there to be strictly clear 20:13:55 <frosch123> sortkrudt: less junctions 20:14:00 <frosch123> more bridges 20:14:35 <frosch123> http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2008/02/28/station-balancing/ 20:14:36 <Alberth> Zuu: usually compiler would warn about 'test always true' or so 20:15:28 <Zuu> AIAirport::IsAirportInformationAvailable have a check "type >= 0" where type is indirectly a byte. 20:15:33 <frosch123> Zuu: a byte is >= 0, but not a char 20:15:41 <DarkSide> more signal pics or littlebit smaler as they ---> http://wiki.openttd.org/images/5/5e/Exit_presignal.png 20:15:41 <sortkrudt> frosch123. thx. common problem eh? 20:15:43 <frosch123> the signedness of char is undefined 20:16:01 <DarkSide> but that in the tuturials 20:16:10 <frosch123> sortkrudt: it's the common site for people needing more than 6 platforms 20:16:12 <frosch123> :p 20:17:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95.28.154.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:17:57 *** KritiK_ is now known as KritiK 20:20:01 <sortkrudt> Yea. well. I had this great idea of diong oil, goods, fruit, corn and food at the same space 20:20:24 <sortkrudt> i've started in 2010, and now in 2040s, and got maglev and everything, but not fun when you have to wait so long on the main-station in my game 20:24:04 <V453000> :D 20:24:08 <V453000> :D 20:24:18 <V453000> "people needing more than 6 platforms" is an awesome definition :D 20:24:41 <sortkrudt> wtf. most people needs more than 6 platforms! 20:24:47 <sortkrudt> at some ponit in the game 20:24:54 <V453000> yes one would think so 20:25:04 <V453000> but there are also people who call themselves playing "realistically" 20:25:11 <V453000> I tend to try to ignore them 20:25:22 <sortkrudt> realistically? 20:25:32 <sortkrudt> i see. 20:25:36 <V453000> yes, make their railways similar to how they are in "real life" 20:25:42 <V453000> honestly: absolute bullshit 20:25:56 <sortkrudt> well. i think they loose alot of the game then 20:26:01 <frosch123> my biggest station in the last game had 10 platforms 20:26:02 <V453000> exactly 20:26:11 <frosch123> but it was actually split into 4 parts 20:26:15 <sortkrudt> mine is twelve but its still fucked up. lolz 20:27:13 <frosch123> anyway, as i usually play with wagon speed limits and without maglev, i do not need so many platforms compared to the number of lines 20:27:32 <V453000> hmm, yes 20:27:37 <sortkrudt> why not maglev? 20:27:46 <frosch123> ugly 20:27:55 <frosch123> i usualy stop once steam engines run out :p 20:28:01 <sortkrudt> you liek pink as ur business colour aswell? 20:28:01 <sortkrudt> he he 20:28:11 <V453000> I like maglev but just as much as any other trains :) The best thing about maglev is that they show how stupid PBS is :) 20:28:22 <sortkrudt> what is pbs? 20:28:29 <V453000> the red signals 20:28:36 <V453000> path based signals aka pretty bad signalling 20:28:49 <sortkrudt> how are they stupid? 20:29:28 <frosch123> sortkrudt: they solve stuff automatic, and thus disallow the player to control stuff in detail 20:29:43 <V453000> if I put aside their technical issues such as trouble with choosing paths correctly, some unexpectable bugs, and what not, they simply make the user think much simplier and thus have problems with improving his networks over time 20:29:53 <V453000> yes, basically what frosch said :) 20:30:00 <sortkrudt> I see. 20:30:04 <sortkrudt> Pre-signals ftw? 20:30:09 <V453000> exactly 20:30:15 <V453000> if you want to become good, then that is the path 20:30:20 <sortkrudt> yea. looks like thats the way. 20:30:36 <sortkrudt> I often have problems they going over their junction, and lbocks every other stuff 20:30:41 <sortkrudt> so the station wont be filled with trains 20:30:51 <frosch123> sortkrudt: you should download a coop savegame from their archive, and check in advance if you want to become like that :p 20:30:57 <sortkrudt> and that happends even with pre- and exit signals. 20:31:02 <V453000> or just joins us playing :) best way to learn that way 20:31:13 <V453000> -s 20:31:20 <Terkhen> frosch123: I think that kind of madness is born, not made :P 20:31:28 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.14] has joined #openttd 20:31:29 <frosch123> might be :) 20:31:46 <V453000> yes 20:31:49 <sortkrudt> I'm just addicted to this game 20:31:58 <V453000> Terkhen, more true than you might realize 20:32:03 <Terkhen> :P 20:32:04 <sortkrudt> I fell in love with this in the 90s. Left it, and then started recently again. 20:32:15 <sortkrudt> I'm having a break due my pain in my hand :p 20:32:18 <V453000> sortkrudt: then definitely join #openttdcoop :P 20:32:22 <Terkhen> ^ that's the story of my life until I started coding for it 20:32:54 *** jpx_ [jpx_@a91-156-244-221.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:58 <Terkhen> lately I have been more addicted to civilization IV 20:33:42 <V453000> I started drawing some sprites so my openttd efforts reduced a bit luckily :d 20:33:52 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 20:33:53 <sortkrudt> lolz! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT-u_bKIRXE&feature=player_embedded cracy shit! 20:34:01 <Zuu> Hmm, is it a feature that current OpenGFX+ Airports have a metropolitan airport view that looks like the city airport? 20:34:06 <V453000> sortkrudt: yes that is it :) 20:34:09 <Zuu> Eg that aircrafts can take off on grass :-p 20:34:27 <Zuu> And drive into the radar without getting damaged :-) 20:35:01 <sortkrudt> So, what is your main goal in-game - money or style? 20:35:29 <Prof_Frink> Ludicrous amounts of money. 20:35:29 <V453000> hard to say, effectiveness probably 20:35:33 <V453000> money is nothing 20:35:37 <V453000> and style ... partially 20:35:41 <Prof_Frink> chick are free 20:35:49 <Terkhen> Zuu: sounds like a bug :P 20:35:49 <Prof_Frink> +s 20:36:07 <Terkhen> sortkrudt: trying to play for an hour without thinking about something to code 20:36:10 <sortkrudt> Well. most effective is to do pure oil/goods, then balance with trains and airport 20:36:12 <Zuu> I do however know that they have commits saying that 4 rotations for most airports are on the way. 20:36:20 <sortkrudt> Terkhen: what do you mean aobut code? 20:36:29 <Terkhen> coding the game :P 20:36:29 <sortkrudt> oh. well 20:36:40 <sortkrudt> I dont code so. that wouldnt be hard 20:36:40 <sortkrudt> :) 20:37:24 <frosch123> oh, i forgot to mention that i usually play in hilly or mountainious 20:37:29 <frosch123> so, no big hubs for me :p 20:37:39 <frosch123> always chaos 20:37:50 <Zuu> Hilly means loveley scenery. 20:37:58 <V453000> arr 20:38:13 <Zuu> Last game I got a nice looking scene in Toyland :-) 20:38:17 <Prof_Frink> Hilly means making full use of the "level land" tool. 20:38:20 <Terkhen> eGRVTS 2 will make me go back to those hilly maps again :P 20:38:37 <sortkrudt> lolz. voting system and everything. 20:38:50 <Terkhen> I have been testing it and it works more nicely regarding realistic acceleration 20:41:13 <frosch123> hmm, what are those arbitrary airports doing in that coop video? 20:41:18 <frosch123> they look as if they are from an ai 20:41:43 <V453000> making money 20:42:12 <V453000> aircraft makes a whole lot of money while not damaging the map 20:42:17 <V453000> as in, making industries grow 20:43:16 <sortkrudt> aircraft is i-win-buttonz of tycoon 20:43:19 <sortkrudt> he he 20:43:22 <Terkhen> yup 20:43:40 <V453000> well, point is 20:43:41 <V453000> you cant win 20:43:46 <V453000> because you play against yourself 20:43:55 <sortkrudt> so you allways loose? He he 20:44:08 <V453000> not entirely 20:44:20 <sortkrudt> depends what your out for. I'm strictly against airplane due the fact of easy cash in. I want to do everything by train 20:44:20 <V453000> you fulfill some of your ideas and next time you try to improve them 20:44:34 <sortkrudt> and substitute with trailers when need more goods/food 20:44:37 <V453000> cash is not a subject sooner or later 20:44:51 <sortkrudt> no. close to never. 20:45:19 <V453000> techniques and logics of how certain parts of network make for much more entertainment than jus making money 20:45:43 <sortkrudt> when techniques are in order there will be heavy money income tho. 20:47:21 <V453000> so what :) 20:47:41 <sortkrudt> alot of cash is a sign of effectivity. 20:47:42 <sortkrudt> thats why 20:47:43 <V453000> when you play for 100 years you can afford anything anyway 20:47:46 <V453000> partially 20:47:49 <sortkrudt> yes. 20:48:21 <V453000> but maybe a lot of cash is also a sign of using the fastest trains, delivering as far as possible, and what ever else, which is not really saying the network is good 20:48:28 <sortkrudt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvMzHHGmkB0&feature=related 20:49:16 <sortkrudt> I've read some of the game-technics, and with effectively getting stuff you higher the risc of gaining amount of stuff produced, thus, allowing more and more trains. 20:49:26 <sortkrudt> I just want to stuff most trains on the same system flowing 20:49:55 <sortkrudt> I have 88 trains, with 4 carrages+train and the system just stopped at my main station. 20:50:05 <sortkrudt> would love to increase this. my main goal. 20:50:18 <V453000> :) good 20:50:48 * Zuu got an alergic response from seeing someone defining capacity without the per time unit part of the definition. 20:50:52 <sortkrudt> I dont know. i just remember back in 90s I just had two train, and some side-tracks. luls. 20:51:36 <sortkrudt> what you mean Zuu? 20:51:59 <Zuu> The amount of trains that are assigned to a station says nothing about which flow it can handle. 20:52:25 <sortkrudt> No, but many stations are connected to the same 'system'. 20:52:40 <sortkrudt> And yes, its the flow I'm talking about. 20:53:09 <V453000> just dont mention amount of trains 20:53:17 <Zuu> I would define flow as [number of vehicles/trains/pcu/etc.] / [some time unit] 20:53:30 <Zuu> (pcu = passenger car unit) 20:53:30 <V453000> or "amount of full lines incoming to the station" 20:53:37 <V453000> that is ... time considered already 20:54:08 <sortkrudt> I can accept that definition. 20:54:28 <Zuu> Possible an even more interesting definition is to use # of tonnes / time unit. 20:54:59 <frosch123> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6rxZ6ctO7A <- awesome, some guy talking eleven minutes about ottd settings :) 20:55:13 <Zuu> However, it is true that OpenTTD currently don't provide any easy way of getting a time-dependent measure of how many trains per time unit a station can handle. 20:55:14 <sortkrudt> well. I watch often how much food, and how much goods are produced per months. 20:55:26 <V453000> well, any real definitions are quite failing bcause there are so many different train sets, ways how to build a network etc. 20:55:38 <frosch123> while he actually seems to know what he is talking about he gets totally lost in the mass somewhere in the middle :p 20:55:43 <V453000> frosch123: I could talk about the settings for days :P 20:56:37 <sortkrudt> oh noes. gemran language. 20:56:44 <frosch123> V453000: i do not even want to know :p 20:56:49 <sortkrudt> bist du german frosch123? 20:56:51 <Zuu> sortkrudt: True, the amount of production / month is probably one of the better measurements of the capacity of a station in OpenTTD. 20:56:54 <V453000> :D 20:56:58 <frosch123> sortkrudt: it's english enough 20:57:06 <frosch123> though he is obviously german 20:57:09 <sortkrudt> he he 20:57:11 <sortkrudt> yea 20:57:40 <frosch123> and he uses gentoo if i heard it correctly 20:57:42 *** Eivvia [~1967es@net-188-153-14-231.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #openttd 20:57:47 <sortkrudt> http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/kq/dx/wb/ters_81_34.jpg 20:57:53 *** Eivvia [~1967es@net-188-153-14-231.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has left #openttd [] 20:59:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:02:27 <frosch123> he hasn't found the news options though 21:05:10 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:05:10 *** George is now known as Guest9012 21:05:10 *** George|2 is now known as George 21:06:32 <frosch123> the second video in that video tutorial definitely suggests we should disable all news by default :p 21:06:45 <V453000> :D 21:07:29 <frosch123> stupid news constantly popping up, and the user just resigned to turn the off or so 21:09:04 <Wolf01> 'night 21:09:08 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host26-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:09:23 <sortkrudt> seems like this guy is a realistic builder 21:09:30 <sortkrudt> ze german one. 21:09:35 <sortkrudt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDQeDILW3qM&feature=related 21:10:27 *** Guest9012 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:16 <Zuu> Oh, he managed to include 2 of my AIs in his settings :-) 21:11:25 <Zuu> Duno if that is good or bad 21:11:41 <sortkrudt> which is your ais? 21:12:05 <Zuu> CluelessPlus, PAXLink, TownCars, TutorialAI and IdleMore 21:12:14 <Zuu> (I hope I didn't forget one :-p) 21:12:28 <Zuu> I also have a library - SuperLib 21:12:39 <frosch123> too bad he uses streetcars, not towncars :) 21:12:52 <Zuu> At least StreetCars is a fork of TownCars. 21:12:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:35 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:15:25 <Zuu> OTTD 1.2 movie: "maybe if you don't know what X-com is you should not own a computer" 21:15:46 <frosch123> is totally flabbergasted... that guy knows what variety distribution does, but he does not know the news settings :p 21:16:56 <frosch123> our settings are just bad :) 21:17:29 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:35 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:17 *** SirSquidness [~sirsquidn@zomg.dongues.com] has joined #openttd 21:29:01 <__ln__> would be cool if google maps could optionally show historical borders 21:34:20 *** Hanf [~Klaus@cpc2-hart4-0-0-cust324.11-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:45 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~Eddi_zuHa@p54B72E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... anybody has a clue how i can influence linux'es oom-behaviour? 21:37:27 <SpComb> adjust to what? 21:37:31 <SpComb> not kill your irssi? 21:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only thing it currently does is get stick for half an hour, not even reacting to keyboard input 21:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> *stuck 21:38:46 <TrueBrain> use another scheduler 21:38:51 <TrueBrain> what was it called ... BFS? 21:39:42 <Prof_Frink> Get more m so you don't run oo it? 21:39:48 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause2: swapoff -a 21:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> __ln__: happens without swap as well. just earlier 21:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: what does the scheduler have to do with it? 21:40:40 <SpComb> non-responsiveness sounds like scheduler issues 21:40:43 <peter1138> swapon /dev/sda 21:40:47 <TrueBrain> euh, if your system becomes non-responsive, it is a scheduler issue :) 21:40:48 <__ln__> yes, disabling swap doesn't fix the problem but the nonresponsiveness is over within minutes rather than half an hour to hour 21:40:55 <TrueBrain> which is mostly caused by I/O 21:41:01 <TrueBrain> which is caused by using diskswap :) 21:41:05 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:10 <SpComb> netswap 21:41:11 <__ln__> TrueBrain: i think we are talking about running out of memory 21:41:12 <TrueBrain> otherwise, I wonder why you want to control the OOM behavoir ;) 21:41:13 <peter1138> i noticed that disk io really bogs things down these days 21:41:18 <Terkhen> good night 21:41:21 <peter1138> it's depressing :( 21:41:29 <TrueBrain> peter1138: get an SSD :P 21:41:49 * SpComb is about to order an Intel 320 120GB 21:41:55 <peter1138> not really 21:42:18 <peter1138> while my kernel is waiting for data, it should be doing other things! 21:42:24 <TrueBrain> it does :p 21:42:30 * Prof_Frink is about to order the Executor 21:42:35 <peter1138> it doesn't! it sits there with high io wait :S 21:42:49 <peter1138> i'm sure it's only been bad like this since SATA 21:42:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i've witnessed 560% wait cycles at one time 21:43:07 <TrueBrain> peter1138: it always has been an issue :p 21:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> (of 6 cores) 21:43:30 <TrueBrain> but seriously, switching to a more modern scheduler at least fixes the non-responsiveness 21:43:34 <peter1138> TrueBrain, not to the extent that a single dd can cause the rest of the system to essentially lock up 21:43:38 <TrueBrain> doesn't fix the cause at all, of course 21:43:41 <TrueBrain> but at least you can ssh and stuff :p 21:43:59 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I did it on 80486, but that might just be me :D 21:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'll give it a few more minutes, then i kill the computer... 21:44:38 <TrueBrain> we use the scheduler on production shared web servers, because people tend to try to make deadlocks :P 21:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it can't be the intention that a "simple" OOM forces me to restart 21:44:48 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:44:50 <TrueBrain> means that both we can still ssh to the box, and other users notice almost nothing 21:45:01 <TrueBrain> blame the OOM Killer 21:45:09 <TrueBrain> one of the more poor things a modern linux kernel does 21:45:14 <TrueBrain> it keeps killing the wrong fucking process :( 21:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i've not really had the wrong process killed yet 21:45:57 <TrueBrain> if it was the right, then why are you still OOM? :D 21:46:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> when it finally got to actually kill a process, it was usually the one screwing up 21:46:49 <TrueBrain> anyway, good chance that it killed a process vital to your keyboard input :D I have seen that happening ... 21:46:52 <TrueBrain> ugh @ X11 :( 21:47:32 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> Wikipedia: "The Brain Fuck Scheduler (BFS) is not related to the programming language Brainfuck" :p 21:48:20 <TrueBrain> ghehe 21:48:37 <TrueBrain> and I am not sure about the name ... it was a confusing one .. I keep forgetting :P 21:49:23 <peter1138> it also won't hit main line :S 21:52:46 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: and the easiest solution always is: don't run OOM :D 21:52:49 <DarkSide> is a wiki administrator here ? 21:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: can't always ensure that ;) 21:53:30 <TrueBrain> you fail then :D 21:53:33 <planetmaker> DarkSide: you might as well ask your real question 21:53:33 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 21:54:07 <DarkSide> can we add a new Category in the wiki ? called [[Category:Signals_Image]] 21:54:25 <DarkSide> they only for grafics 21:55:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22897 /trunk/src/ (news_gui.cpp news_type.h): -Change: More suitable default news settings instead of everything on 'full'. 21:55:21 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 21:56:02 <frosch123> so, how can we add a bug which deletes the current news settings of every user from the config? :p 21:56:26 <TrueBrain> don't tempt me frosch123 :P 21:56:50 <DarkSide> move the news settings at /dev/null ;) 21:56:50 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the goal is to only delete the news settings 21:56:58 <frosch123> not the whole disk 21:57:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: aawwwhhh 21:57:04 <TrueBrain> you sure? 21:57:34 <frosch123> i am sure you would 21:57:45 <Elukka> so, i haven't the slightest clue how to patch or compile (besides mucking about with buildottd which didn't seem to work) but i'd like a more recent version of openttd with cargodist 21:58:05 <Elukka> the wiki page says it's compiled nightly but the most recent ones are from june while there are patch files from this month 21:58:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f55dd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:47 <Pinkbeast> Isn't the current Chill's newer than June? 21:59:46 <Elukka> chill's? 21:59:49 <Elukka> oh 21:59:55 <Elukka> i need to check the dev forum more often 22:00:27 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:01:09 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-8-180.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:36 <Elukka> signals on bridges and tunnels 22:01:38 <Elukka> mind, blown 22:01:52 <pjpe> they work kinda shitty 22:01:57 <planetmaker> DarkSide: why does it need a separate category for signal images? 22:02:00 <pjpe> sometimes they bug out 22:02:17 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-83-190.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:34 <Pinkbeast> Yeah, I gave up on that when I got two trains stuck in a tunnel for no readily apparent reason. 22:02:54 <pjpe> and i can't figure out what the point of the speed limit signals are 22:02:57 <DarkSide> 4 shorter image searching and using 22:02:59 <pjpe> it doesn't seem to affect pathfinding 22:03:04 <sortkrudt> May be a stupid question, but I have this problem with a train going over a junction after the pre-signal even tho an exit-signal is read, and its blocking the whoel junction. is this a bug? 22:03:21 <Pinkbeast> sort> Got a screenshot? 22:03:47 <sortkrudt> yes. u got any site where I can easy upload & post? 22:03:58 <Yexo> planetmaker: failure is due to german language file 22:04:14 <Yexo> {P t en} {NUM} should be {P 0 t en} {NUM} I think 22:04:19 <planetmaker> o_O 22:04:21 <Elukka> what's up with the cargodist binaries not being automatically compiled as per the wiki anyhow? 22:04:30 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:37 * Eddi|zuHause2 is sure TrueBrain is a secret descendant of the BOFH :p 22:04:48 <Yexo> Elukka: I don't know, but the wiki is in no way leading information 22:04:53 <planetmaker> thanks, Yexo. Will fix that immediately. I didn't yet notice 22:04:59 <Yexo> it might be correct, it might be outdated, it might be wrong for a few years 22:05:04 <Elukka> right 22:05:13 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: why? 22:05:16 <Yexo> planetmaker: me neither, but the log in .cf was helpful :) 22:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> TrueBrain: do i _really_ have to give proof? :p 22:05:51 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: I was talking about "secret" 22:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh. 22:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> right. 22:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> :p 22:06:07 <TrueBrain> :D 22:06:11 <TrueBrain> you felt for thatone :D 22:06:15 <TrueBrain> can't believe you did ... :P 22:06:16 <sortkrudt> Pinkbeast: http://imgh.us/Honlia_Transport,_27._Mar_2046.jpg 22:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, i'm gonna kill my computer now... 22:06:39 <Elukka> some day i hope cargo destinations will make it to trunk 22:06:43 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause2: good luck 22:06:55 <TrueBrain> Elukka: which version? :D 22:06:58 <planetmaker> should be fixed now 22:07:08 <Pinkbeast> png is enormously superior to jpg for this job, but... where's the problematic junction/train? 22:07:13 <TrueBrain> Yexo / planetmaker: how did it pass WT3.0? 22:07:16 <Elukka> any version that's decent :P 22:07:24 <DarkSide> (planetmaker): 4 shorter image searching and using 22:07:30 <Yexo> TrueBrain: no clue how WT3.0 validates 22:07:34 <Pinkbeast> Oh, the one that's in the junction before "Huston"? 22:07:42 <TrueBrain> Yexo: correctly, I hoped :P 22:07:57 <planetmaker> Elukka: the automatic compilation might have stopped / be broken when we moved to a new compile farm 22:08:02 <pjpe> once a train enters that block of signals 22:08:06 <pjpe> in between the entrance and exit signals 22:08:11 <pjpe> all of the signals will turn red 22:08:11 <TrueBrain> guess some things changed in strgen that WT3.0 doesn't know about :P 22:08:13 <sortkrudt> Pinkbeast. Yes. I thought the pre-signal and exit would fix this 22:08:15 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: you should know ;-) 22:08:16 <pjpe> you should change them all to path signals 22:08:19 <Pinkbeast> The trains with invisible wagons do make things a tad more confusing 22:08:26 <Elukka> that would explain it 22:08:27 <Yexo> TrueBrain: this didn't change recently at all 22:08:38 <Elukka> would be nice if it got unbrokened eventually :P 22:08:41 <sortkrudt> pjpe: but i had the same problem with path signals enter and exit. 22:08:46 <Pinkbeast> Path signals would certainly improve it, but that train in the block shouldn't be there for all that 22:08:52 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:08:52 <planetmaker> indeed it's just the old plural pragma used 22:08:55 <TrueBrain> Yexo: 'recent' as in last year, I remember Rub talking about it a long time ago :p 22:08:58 <planetmaker> twice in a single string 22:08:59 <pjpe> oh was that the problem 22:09:03 <planetmaker> that's older than a year 22:09:05 <sortkrudt> No, i know, and its way to annoying, cause its waiting for a train with are waiting for stuff he cant get. 22:09:10 <Pinkbeast> With path signals you wouldn't have the signals immediately before the platforms at all. 22:09:21 <sortkrudt> pjpe, yea. well. i'm newb. dont be suprised :) 22:09:45 <sortkrudt> it looks like its a timing problem. 22:10:01 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:14 <Pinkbeast> Ahhh. You have two-way signals there. 22:10:16 <Elukka> path signals are a beautiful gift from god 22:10:42 <sortkrudt> When path signals were made God had his best work day. 22:10:52 <sortkrudt> Pinkbeast, is that relevant? :) 22:10:57 <sortkrudt> I don't understand why. 22:11:36 <Elukka> path signals and cargo destinations (because of the way they revolutionize passengers) are two things i can't play without anymore 22:11:48 <Pinkbeast> Well, it's ages since I've used non-path signals, but I think one of the signals into the block has turned green and let that train in because one of the signals facing the other way was green because the waiting area closest to us is free. 22:12:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:03 <Pinkbeast> Do trains ever travel back the other way? Surely not. 22:13:09 <sortkrudt> No. 22:13:18 <Pinkbeast> So I would make those one-way and see what happens. 22:13:24 <sortkrudt> never happened. 22:13:29 <sortkrudt> Ok. 22:13:47 <Pinkbeast> ... well, actually I would replace all the two-ways with path signals and remove the signals closest to the platforms altogether, but failing that... 22:14:24 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:14:32 <sortkrudt> "actually i would blow the whole thing and re-make it.." 22:15:13 <Pinkbeast> Depends how much disruption you fancy in your network. 22:15:23 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 22:15:26 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 22:16:03 <Elukka> unrelated, but speaking of track design in general... i've found that on through stations and especially terminus stations, if there are 4 or more tracks on your line it's vastly better to alternate the directions of each track 22:16:19 <Elukka> as in, not have left hand or right hand traffic 22:16:35 <Elukka> line goes like 22:16:36 <Elukka> ----> 22:16:41 <Elukka> <---- 22:16:45 <Elukka> -----> 22:16:50 <Pinkbeast> Yes, you want LRLR not LLRR. 22:16:54 *** vb [~chatzilla@79.114.35.100] has joined #openttd 22:16:56 <Elukka> yes that's a much less cumbersome way to put it 22:17:00 <vb> anyone online? 22:17:03 <Elukka> took me ages to realize 22:17:09 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:17:09 <planetmaker> right... I guess I don't find info on how to create such category 22:17:11 <SpComb> yeah, I discovered that as well 22:17:14 <vb> i downlodead the firs 070 beta 1 files 22:17:16 <vb> where to put them? 22:17:23 <SpComb> alternating tracks at stations (both through and terminus) are awesome 22:17:44 <Elukka> well, took me as long as it took for my networks to grow to such a point that the LLRR arrangement became my main bottleneck 22:17:46 <SpComb> hard part is building the track infrastructure where you join all those together, mind :) 22:18:00 <Ammler> vb: ~/.openttd/data 22:18:05 *** George is now known as Guest9024 22:18:05 *** Guest9024 is now known as Guest9025 22:18:05 *** George|2 is now known as George 22:18:26 <SpComb> http://projects.qmsk.net/pngtile/screenshots/20091218/2002.png#17012:13837:0 22:18:52 <sortkrudt> So weird. The train went into the junction and went straigth to the one which -exit-signal- said red, and blocked the whole junction 22:19:08 <SpComb> two terminii, one through station, and two bypasses for above :p 22:19:12 <Elukka> i realized the main problem was that trains on a terminus would enter on one side of the stations, then have to cross most of the tracks to get to the other side when they leave, blocking traffic 22:19:35 <SpComb> with a five-track station and alternating lines, you can have four trains simultaneously exiting/entering the station 22:19:43 <vb> ammler 22:19:45 <Elukka> yeah 22:19:45 <vb> not working 22:19:47 <SpComb> and you only need one tile of track crossings on the station 22:20:05 <SpComb> -> optimal 22:20:55 <Ammler> vb: you need to unzip it 22:21:17 <vb> oh 22:21:40 <Pinkbeast> sortkrudt> Having made the suggested changes? 22:21:44 <Ammler> only tar archives are possible 22:21:55 *** Guest9025 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:15 <Ammler> but the zip should have a folder, you can keep that 22:22:31 <vb> it seems i need a nightly openttd 22:22:33 <Elukka> i used this junction on a LRLR type line 22:22:34 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/intersection.png 22:22:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.99.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:40 <Elukka> it works, but an obvious flaw is the length of the bridges 22:22:50 <Ammler> vb: the newgrf should tell you that 22:23:03 <Ammler> so does the release thread... 22:23:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:23:46 <vb> yay, rivers 22:23:49 <Pinkbeast> Are these intentionally all entry pre-signals? 22:23:57 <Elukka> no they're one way path signals 22:24:21 <Pinkbeast> Oh, with unconventional graphics? 22:24:29 <SpComb> my junctions are all 100% certified organically-grown 22:24:43 <vb> what is the best trainset for firs 0.7.0? 22:24:51 <Elukka> huh. i only just realized the entry presignal and one way path signal look almost identical 22:24:56 <Elukka> maybe? i dunno what graphics i'm using there :D 22:25:05 <Ammler> vb: every set with support for ECS should do 22:25:13 <Pinkbeast> You could reduce the bridge lengths by not having them cross the lines they're about to merge with... 22:25:55 <Ammler> if you want to use default, you need ogfx+trains 22:26:07 <SpComb> yeah, keep the bridging track straight and bend the crossing track 22:26:22 <sortkrudt> lemme see.. to sec 22:26:25 <Elukka> hm true 22:26:25 <SpComb> certifyable suboptimal 22:26:47 <Elukka> dunno why i did it that way 22:27:12 <Elukka> and i wish you could still commit the terrible crime of changing newgrfs in a running game because now that save will forever have bugged bridge graphics because i forgot a parameter :( 22:27:27 <Pinkbeast> You can, secretly 22:27:46 <sortkrudt> Pinkbeast. Yes. I should do that aswell. it would be more effective. even tho my system have many weak spots now. whole system have halted another spot aswell 22:27:54 <sortkrudt> I've lost 75% of all earning this year 22:27:55 <Elukka> what's the super secret way 22:27:56 <sortkrudt> :s 22:28:00 <Elukka> i won't complain when it breaks my game, promise 22:28:16 <Ammler> it is not secret, just set the scenario_developer flag 22:28:19 <Pinkbeast> http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_NewGRF#I_cannot_change_NewGRFs_in_my_game.2C_why.3F 22:28:27 <Elukka> hm. thought i did that 22:28:34 *** Alien [5472b1fc@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:28:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 22:28:41 *** ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.2, 1.1.3-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only 22:28:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o SmatZ] by ChanServ 22:29:16 <Pinkbeast> I change newgrfs all the time, never had a problem. As long as you don't do something daft like removing vehicles you're using, it generally seems to be OK 22:29:37 <Pinkbeast> sortkrudt> Why do you need such a humunguous capacity station, anyway, if I can ask? 22:29:41 <SpComb> haet haet 22:29:57 <Elukka> i've used it to either fix graphics hickups and once or twice add the db set ecs compatibility grf which surprisingly worked 22:30:02 * SpComb did it when starting a game on the original TTDX West Country scenario 22:30:07 <Elukka> (works for uk renewal industries too which is pretty nice) 22:30:07 <Alien> Hi, a gameplay question; if i have a "service when needed" order in a trains list will this train autoservice? 22:30:11 <Pinkbeast> ... yeah, whoever gets the bug reports you generate because you take my advice isn't going to be too pleased 22:30:15 <Pinkbeast> Alien> No. 22:30:22 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~Eddi_zuHa@p54B72E8E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:30:30 <sortkrudt> Pinkbeast: Oh, well. I thought it would be fun to see how much trains I can go to one station. I'm delivering oil, fruit and corn and getting food and goods. thats's all. 22:30:39 <Alien> thx i will try it 22:30:50 *** Alien [5472b1fc@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 22:31:26 <sortkrudt> I had 900 tonnes of food production, and many tones on goods. Just wanted to see what max number I was able to get 22:31:35 <Pinkbeast> sortkrudt> I would start then by using waypoints to route the loading trains separately to the unloading trains, so that unloading trains cannot be blocked by trains waiting for cargo 22:31:47 <Elukka> but hey, suppose i want my game running cargodist and be modern enough to be compatible with FIRS and opengfx+ terrain 22:31:54 <Elukka> what's my least painless shot of doing it 22:32:00 <Elukka> the ideal thing would be finding a binary somewhere! 22:32:09 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:15 <Pinkbeast> And then split the various kind of loading train, so each cargo has at least one dedicated platform 22:32:33 <Elukka> considering the compile farm hasn't been compiling cargodist for month 22:32:35 <Elukka> months* 22:32:46 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> What's wrong with Chill's? 22:32:49 <sortkrudt> I see. Yea. Splitting into three or four junction pre-station would be a clever idea aswell. 22:32:58 <sortkrudt> instead of twelve-railed junction 22:33:09 <Elukka> ...nothing's wrong with chills, i forgot about it and that chill's thread tab i had open 22:33:10 <Elukka> derp 22:33:23 <Ammler> Elukka: there should be a binary flying around on forums 22:33:32 <Pinkbeast> That monstrous train waiting area is papering over the cracks - you can't get trains loaded/unloaded and out of the existing platforms fast enough 22:33:58 <sortkrudt> yes. 22:34:01 <Pinkbeast> And until you can, adding more trains and more waiting area does nothing for throughput 22:34:03 <sortkrudt> I knowz. it sux 22:34:12 <sortkrudt> also true. 22:34:42 <Pinkbeast> Short of increasing maximum station size, though, you are a bit stuck 22:35:28 <Pinkbeast> ... wait, do you have any 5-tile trains? 22:35:30 <sortkrudt> when I did 4 junctions, and signals between them at ml, then it went more smooth 22:35:43 <sortkrudt> no. 4cargo+train(2). 22:36:11 <Pinkbeast> Because if you've only got those 3-tile trains, you could have two complete rows of platforms. Bring trains in up the middle and send them out both sides. 22:36:51 <sortkrudt> well. those both lines would eventually go on the ml, then i would get bottle-neck some other place 22:37:27 <Pinkbeast> Perhaps once you get the signals sorted here, anyway, throughput will increase. 22:37:56 <sortkrudt> yea. hope so. thx for help. 22:40:31 <Elukka> yay binaries \o/ 22:44:15 <Elukka> haha 32k x 32k square maps 22:47:34 <sortkrudt> atleast u have space 22:48:28 <Pinkbeast> I ain't criticising the decision not to try and second-guess how big a map anyone might need, but... that's probably a bigger map than anyone needs. 22:49:11 <Elukka> i like to play on 2048x2048 maps because it never feels cramped 22:49:21 <Elukka> and so far it never has and i don't feel the need to go bigger 22:50:18 <Elukka> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=149084 22:50:25 <Elukka> anyone happen to know where those trees are from? 22:50:45 <Ammler> opengfx? 22:50:57 <Ammler> you use another base set? 22:51:25 *** vb [~chatzilla@79.114.35.100] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941]] 22:51:35 <planetmaker> default opengfx 22:51:38 <Elukka> huh. 22:51:43 <Elukka> guess i'm using some archaic version 22:51:45 <Ammler> maabe you need to update 22:51:50 <Elukka> working on it! 22:52:48 <Elukka> ooh sexy trees 22:52:50 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> you're not just using the old TTD graphics? 22:52:58 <Elukka> nah, old opengfx 22:53:42 <Ammler> Pinkbeast: there aren't old ttd graphics 22:53:55 <Ammler> there is just one version afaik 22:54:12 <Pinkbeast> Ammler> You have misunderstood the sense of "old" 22:54:18 <Ammler> :-) 22:55:36 <Elukka> aw. opengfx+ terrain makes chill's crash 22:56:56 <planetmaker> yes, it's too new newgrf, probably 22:57:02 <planetmaker> but it shouldn't crash it 22:57:05 *** DDR [~DDR@d142-179-78-88.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:57:41 <Elukka> :( 22:58:11 <Ammler> there is ogfx+terrain? 22:58:18 <planetmaker> +landscape ;-) 22:58:23 <Elukka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=52881 22:58:24 <Elukka> yeah, that 22:58:38 <Elukka> okay.. i hope firs at least works 22:59:28 <Ammler> what version does chillpp report? 22:59:33 <planetmaker> it has similiar requirements, Elukka 22:59:38 <planetmaker> wrt openttd version 22:59:39 <Elukka> argh, it doesn't 23:00:28 <Elukka> chill's says revision 22553 23:00:35 <Elukka> this is whatever was the newest binary in the thread 23:00:46 <planetmaker> which is smaller than 22780 ;-) 23:00:49 <Elukka> true 23:01:05 <Elukka> i'd just like to get FIRS and preferably opengfx+ landscape in a cargodist game 23:01:19 <planetmaker> foobar updated yacd 23:01:36 <planetmaker> somewhere in the forums. And posted a windoze binary 23:02:31 <Elukka> alternative to cargodist? 23:02:37 <Ammler> no 23:02:43 <Ammler> update of yacd 23:03:00 <Ammler> @man yacd 23:04:11 <Elukka> will it make my passengers take a bus to the train that goes to the airport without me fudging with transfer orders because if yes that's what i want 23:04:33 <Yexo> yes 23:04:36 <Elukka> yay 23:04:40 <Ammler> just try it, it is a bit different 23:05:08 <Elukka> the compiled binaries for yacd also end in june... gonna dig round the thread for newer ones 23:05:09 <Yexo> main difference between yacd and cargodist is that in yacd the passengers chose a destination themselves and you have to accomodate them. In cargodist the passengers will only go where they can go and as such adjust to your network 23:05:27 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-004-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:06:01 <Elukka> so in effect, in yacd you have less demand for your services if you have less destinations? 23:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:07:02 <Elukka> cool, always wanted that 23:08:18 <Ammler> you just got a dummy slave of the game 23:09:24 <Elukka> well, i can't find a recent binary of yacd either 23:09:27 <Ammler> it transfers the game from strategy to simulation 23:09:55 <Ammler> Elukka: search for foobar 23:09:56 <Yexo> Elukka: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56482 23:10:18 <Elukka> hey, thanks 23:10:58 <Ammler> the best feature of yacd is the disable setting :-) 23:11:33 <Elukka> ha 23:11:38 <Elukka> it sounds pretty great to me 23:11:42 <Elukka> yacd, not the disable setting 23:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm slightly in preferrence of cargodist-style destinations 23:12:11 <Ammler> you are just a lazy guy :-P 23:12:34 <Elukka> the strategy in the game isn't about making money anyhow since that's so easy, it's about providing towns and industries the services they need 23:12:35 <Elukka> to me anyway 23:12:54 <Elukka> yacd seems like it makes providing those services more interesting 23:13:04 <Ammler> but you just need to do the boring stuff... 23:13:11 <Elukka> what boring stuff? 23:13:21 <Ammler> just build tracks 23:13:37 <Elukka> isn't that what ttd is about :p 23:13:41 <Ammler> the "routing" happens automatically 23:13:55 <Ammler> which is fun in the usual gameplay 23:14:42 <Elukka> routing vehicles doesn't happen automatically though, and destinations makes it all the more vital 23:14:47 <Ammler> Elukka: yeah it is fun for some, it isn't for others, that is why it is good, it has a disable option :-) 23:14:50 <Elukka> because a bottleneck in the network will murder profits 23:14:52 <Elukka> heh 23:14:53 <planetmaker> good night 23:15:55 <Ammler> gute nacht planetmaker 23:16:18 <Elukka> um. playing on a large map doesn't mean people from Town A will want to go to every single town on the map in equal numbers, so that you'll end up with a miniscule amount of passengers on larger maps, does it? 23:17:37 <Pinkbeast> YACD does its best not to drop you in that hole, yes. 23:17:50 <Elukka> that's nice of it 23:18:17 <Ammler> yes, but you don't need cargod{e|i}st for that, good players can do that without 23:18:27 <Elukka> ah, finally, a thing that works! 23:18:29 <Elukka> so pretty 23:18:45 <Elukka> ammler, without it you can simply dump all your passengers wherever you like :P 23:19:24 <Ammler> not if you want your trains to be full both ways 23:20:21 <Elukka> ...next question, are there any good vehicle sets that work with FIRS? 23:20:35 <Elukka> db set seems to have support for it but the grf is much older than recent FIRS versions 23:20:42 <Ammler> any set with support for ECS 23:20:56 <Ammler> or the ogfx+ sets 23:21:19 <Elukka> oh, i thought i had read something about FIRS needing more particular support than ECS 23:21:25 <Ammler> dbset has no graphical support 23:22:31 <Elukka> as in it works but you won't see your trains carry the proper cargo visually? 23:22:42 <Ammler> yep 23:23:23 <Ammler> the "ECS" sets do that mostly and the ogfx+ sets do that even more 23:24:02 <Ammler> you can use multiple sets 23:24:10 <Elukka> i've been alternating between dbset, nars2 and ukrs 23:24:15 <Ammler> the more the better 23:24:32 <Ammler> use them all :-) 23:24:56 <Elukka> but german trains alongside american ones is just.. wrong! 23:25:41 <Elukka> as an aside i love the attention to detail in dbset 23:25:42 <Pinkbeast> I tend to use ukrs2 plus 2cc to fill in the gaps 23:25:47 <Ammler> yeah, as said, for some, openttd is simulation, for some it is strategy, you are obviously the simulation guy :-P 23:26:12 <Pinkbeast> I think defining being allowed to send any cargo anywhere as "strategy" is tenuous at best 23:26:21 <Elukka> different color schemes according to period and locomotive, first class and diner cars... 23:27:20 <Elukka> sometimes i feel the urge to draw some sprites, as i feel i could summon up the artistic skill to do it but there's no way i could code anything :D 23:27:56 <Ammler> then draw your things and post to tt-forums 23:27:57 <sortkrudt> lulz. are you a nationalist in-game Elukka!?!?! 23:28:08 <Ammler> if someone likes it, he might offer to help with code 23:28:37 <Elukka> might just see if someone's looking for sprites and tryign to make some too 23:28:56 <Elukka> sort, hah 23:29:26 <Elukka> if i'm running german trains i'll have german towns and money, if i'm running american trains i'll have american towns and money :P 23:29:42 <Ammler> Elukka: maybe cets is searching for artsts 23:30:17 *** Guest8962 [~aq@178-27-200-32-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:15 *** DarkSide [~name@dslb-088-077-205-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: get satisfied! ⢠:: www.unitedservers.de ««« (Gamers.IRC) »»» gamersirc.net ::] 23:36:50 <Elukka> hm. long vehicles and fish seem to be okay with firs 23:36:56 <Elukka> since they just transport everything 23:37:05 <Elukka> trucks transporting gear ratios! :P 23:45:55 <Elukka> ...disabling regearing in nars apparently means disabling all locomotives capable of regearing 23:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's a bug 23:52:37 <Elukka> suddenly, 3 am 23:52:45 <Elukka> sleeptime i think 23:52:48 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []