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00:00:21 *** panna [virr@forskningsavd.se] has joined #openttd 00:06:37 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:15:00 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 00:45:36 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:46:47 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:47:05 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:55:01 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-002.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:12:34 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f921.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 01:47:15 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:16:58 *** bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:09 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:57 *** Diablo-D3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd 02:27:00 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-208-240.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:32 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-207-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:32:18 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 02:57:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9917:9096:d0c5:136d] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:23:37 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:38:03 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 04:56:03 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B736BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B72F79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:21:20 *** robotboy [3aad2b37@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:22:39 *** robotboy [3aad2b37@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 05:29:29 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 05:36:43 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:40 *** robotboy [3aad2b37@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:19:43 *** robotboy [3aad2b37@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:32:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 06:40:13 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 06:43:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:45:10 <andythenorth> morgen 06:48:08 <__ln__> gestern 06:51:16 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: do we need grey 4 axle coaches? 07:02:07 <Ammler> web down again' 07:02:19 <Ammler> heute 07:04:11 <Terkhen> good morning 07:05:22 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:18:23 <Elukka> ah, they did exist - i suppose they may have been this type: http://www.brawa.de/typo3temp/pics/45203-dzugwagen-ab-4ue-kpev_5462d8cebc.jpg 07:19:19 <Diablo-D3> yay model trains 07:19:32 <andythenorth> model trains will not even be 1px in game 07:19:35 <andythenorth> I wouldn't bother 07:19:43 <Elukka> ha 07:20:10 <Elukka> i do have a few, though brawa is mostly out of my price range :P 07:20:15 <Elukka> their site makes for good reference though 07:20:32 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:20:33 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_2725.jpg 07:20:34 <Elukka> choo. 07:20:40 <LordAro> mornings 07:21:04 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 07:21:06 *** DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has left #openttd [] 07:21:28 <Elukka> morning 07:21:43 <pjpe> you know they have model trains in model trains now 07:21:43 <pjpe> scale model railroads 07:21:43 <pjpe> inside a scale model railroad 07:21:43 <pjpe> you have model trains? 07:21:44 <pjpe> the only ones i have are my father's g scale from like 40 years ago 07:21:44 <pjpe> and i sure as hell ain't buying new ones 07:21:46 <pjpe> so expensive 07:21:46 <pjpe> i'm trying to do the modelling part 07:21:48 <pjpe> without the trains 07:22:47 <Elukka> i do 07:23:17 <Elukka> not terribly many of them, though... that locomotive with its four freight wagons was almost 300 euros 07:23:38 <Elukka> i do wish they were cheaper but i guess that's what you've got with a niche hobby 07:24:25 <pjpe> jesus 07:24:28 <pjpe> you spent that money? 07:24:48 <Elukka> yeah 07:25:01 <Elukka> you can get a bit cheaper, i just like my detail and sound :P 07:25:02 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 07:25:25 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:25:53 <pjpe> even if i had a job i wouldn't think of spending that 07:25:59 <pjpe> h0-scale? 07:26:08 <Elukka> yup 07:26:18 <pjpe> yeah i'd go n-scale 07:26:21 <pjpe> probably be even worse 07:26:25 <pjpe> unless i snipe off ebay 07:26:36 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_2146_800x600.jpg 07:26:44 <pjpe> what base do you put your model railroad on 07:27:09 <Elukka> 60's germany 07:27:10 <pjpe> wood? 07:27:27 <Elukka> oh 07:27:36 <Diablo-D3> heh, I just had a funny idea 07:27:41 <Diablo-D3> full sandbox mode for ottd 07:27:49 <Diablo-D3> no money, no cargo, no gameplay 07:27:50 <Elukka> i had this table made 07:28:00 <Diablo-D3> trains just run and you fiddle with all the tiles 07:28:12 <Elukka> didn't have the space or the skill to make it myself 07:28:26 <Elukka> the buildings i'm trying to make myself 07:28:28 <Elukka> first try: http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_2173.jpg 07:28:32 <Elukka> that's some cardboard type thing 07:28:53 <pjpe> i started a small scene 07:28:58 <pjpe> made some concrete abatements for a bridge 07:28:59 <Elukka> the window frames are matches cut in half... vertically 07:29:01 <pjpe> no idea what to put it on now 07:29:02 <Elukka> that was a bit of a bitch 07:29:06 <Diablo-D3> lookin kinda detroit there 07:30:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:30:17 <Diablo-D3> [03:26:36] <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_2146_800x600.jpg 07:30:22 <Diablo-D3> the cars look pretty good actually 07:30:30 <Diablo-D3> needs more weathering on the wheelbases though 07:30:36 <Elukka> probably 07:30:37 <Diablo-D3> just avoid getting shit in the assembly 07:30:41 <Elukka> i weathered them with chalk 07:30:47 <Elukka> easy to wash off and redo if i mess up 07:31:39 <Elukka> i don't seem to have a good color for wheelbase gunk though 07:33:17 <planetmaker> moin 07:33:58 <Diablo-D3> Elukka: go improve your dry brush skills 07:34:34 <Diablo-D3> dry brushing watered down silver and then griming over that gives realistic abuse imo 07:34:37 <Elukka> chalk doesn't seem to take painting techniques that well and i'm scared to actually paint them 07:37:17 <peter1138> but _800x600.jpg is actually 660x600 :S 07:37:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:37:50 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: it fits in a 800x600 box ;) 07:40:53 <Rubidium> so, why isn't it called 2000x2000? 07:41:15 <Rubidium> it would fit in a 2000x2000 box as well, wouldn't it? 07:43:55 <Elukka> why are we expecting my filenames to be accurate :P 07:45:30 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 07:46:40 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 07:46:43 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 08:04:14 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:09:01 *** SmatZ [~smatz@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 08:09:01 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: ...und tschÃŒÃ!] 08:09:01 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Bye - http.//dev.openttdcoop.org] 08:09:01 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Write error: connection closed] 08:09:01 *** Ammler [~ammler@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: gone...] 08:09:02 *** Osai [~Osai@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: bye - http://www.openttdcoop.org] 08:09:02 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Ehm.. Quit? 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09:18:25 <appe> it seems like it tries to speed it up as much as the cpu will allow 09:18:52 <Ammler> yes, to a certain max 09:19:03 <appe> configurable? 09:19:09 <Eddi|zuHause> no 09:21:55 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:27:46 <Elukka> i learned that when i sped up, alt tabbed and found the AI had connected almost everything and build mad bridge messes 09:27:57 <Elukka> (once upon a time when i still used the old default AI for road vehicle) 09:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: try this reference: http://www.rbd-breslau.de/14-sitzwagen/sitzwagen_s_pr.html 09:33:16 <appe> hehe 09:34:53 <Elukka> lots of good pictures there, thanks 09:35:50 <appe> ah, german. 09:36:06 <Elukka> my understanding of the text is limited to what google translate can salvage :P 09:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: says mostly something about how they were made from wood first and successively be replaced by iron and steel variants 09:42:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 09:44:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.163.65] has joined #openttd 09:50:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.189.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:59:25 <appe> i have a ..tip 09:59:33 <appe> you know when you control click placing signals 09:59:40 <appe> it fills the track 09:59:53 <appe> that should be implemented on the conversion button 10:00:50 <MNIM> the signal conversion button? 10:00:53 <Eddi|zuHause> nice idea, but it would be helpful if we could have halftile-upgraded railtypes 10:01:14 *** AD [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has joined #openttd 10:01:30 <MNIM> yeah, either that, or click-drag conversion like railtype upgrading 10:01:39 *** Guest10085 [wilberforc@drinks.mountaindew.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:01:53 *** AD is now known as Guest10632 10:01:54 <Alberth> wouldn't it be easier to 'flood fill' all tracks from some starting point in that case? 10:02:28 <MNIM> well, your style would mean that any connecting track would have it's signals replaced 10:03:48 <MNIM> while I imagine some people would only want to upgrade the mainlines and keep the sidelines 'old school' (and save a bit as well) 10:03:55 <Alberth> oh, you are talking about signal conversion instead of railtype conversion 10:04:02 <MNIM> well, I am 10:04:07 <MNIM> not sure if appe does 10:05:52 <appe> nono, railtype conversion 10:05:59 <appe> flood-fill would be nice. 10:06:03 <appe> at least as an option 10:06:27 <Alberth> could cause problems in a MP game 10:07:06 <MNIM> hmmmh, perhaps, but I would rate adding a mass-conversion option for signaltypes a higher priority 10:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't use flood fill of the complete network... flood-fill of one line and manual conversion of the crossings 10:08:05 <Alberth> MNIM: I don't understand; you have all signal types always, why not build the right signals immediately? 10:08:33 <MNIM> 'realism' 10:08:46 <appe> that sounds resonable. 10:08:55 <Alberth> no it doesn't 10:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: that never "realistically" happened anywhere 10:09:17 <appe> what Eddi said, that is. 10:09:46 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: except by destroying all tracks, and putting in a new layout, perhaps :) 10:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yep :) 10:10:10 <Alberth> which is already supported :p 10:10:56 * Alberth adds a checkmark to the 'realistic signal replacement' feature 10:11:14 <MNIM> eddi: note the quotes :p but yeah, the same reasons that apply to not all airports not being available at the beginning 10:11:36 <MNIM> why have a timeline in ottd when you're not going to use it because it's easy? 10:12:35 <appe> o.0 10:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: with "realistic" railways, signals fall into the "never touch a running system" category 10:13:54 <MNIM> true, but I don't see any old school signals when I look at modern railways 10:14:01 <MNIM> so in the end, they did get replaced 10:14:28 <Alberth> more likely, the whole track got replaced 10:15:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:15:22 <Alberth> good good, no need for the upgrade button anymore, either 10:15:28 <Alberth> hi andy 10:15:36 <andythenorth> lo 10:16:07 <MNIM> then perhaps signal replacement should be an option as part of rail replacement? 10:16:35 <Elukka> with PBS openttd already falls into the "never touch a running system" category :D 10:16:44 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 10:16:59 <Elukka> live, reserved paths and changes to the signaling... well, it results in Fun 10:17:09 <Elukka> of the explodey kind 10:17:27 <Alberth> Elukka: you need more practice then :) 10:17:46 <Elukka> oh, they work fine if i stop the trains before messing with my signals 10:18:02 <MNIM> elukka: does that happen with just replacing the signaltype? 10:18:29 <MNIM> I mean from semaphore signal to light signal? 10:18:36 <Elukka> oh yeah that shouldn't do anything 10:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <MNIM> true, but I don't see any old school signals when I look at modern railways <- there are plenty of examples for old-school signals around 10:20:16 <MNIM> not on a modern berlin-amsterdam line, I hope? 10:20:23 <appe> now, someone have to remind me, isnt there a setting that makes cargoloading go instantaniously 10:21:22 <MNIM> appe: advanced settings -> stations -> cargo handling -> use improved loading algorithm? 10:21:31 <MNIM> could have to do with it, not sure though 10:21:36 <MNIM> oh wait, my bad 10:21:39 <MNIM> one line down 10:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: http://www.eisenbahndet.de/Jahresrueckblick2007/Jahresr155110Koethen.jpg "modern" main line Halle-Magdeburg, station in Köthen 10:21:50 <MNIM> 'load cargo gradually' 10:22:10 <MNIM> ...wot 10:22:10 <appe> there we are, thank you 10:22:15 <MNIM> are those in working order? 10:22:16 <appe> im experimenting with the logic grf 10:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> of course they are... 10:22:47 <MNIM> *mind blown* 10:23:28 <MNIM> sorry, never seen that before 10:24:46 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has joined #openttd 10:24:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 10:25:24 <MNIM> 0-o 10:25:31 <MNIM> our town crazy was down? 10:28:26 <Diablo-D3> wow 10:28:29 <Diablo-D3> whats with that little engine 10:30:28 <andythenorth> hmm 10:30:37 <LordAro> Alberth: this is my tab changing code. in my mind, it should work, but it segfaults :) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/584/ 10:30:41 <andythenorth> any chance of a working time patch? :( 10:31:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: what do you mean "little engine"? 10:31:31 <Diablo-D3> the red boxed shaped thing with the wheels on the bottom. 10:32:03 <Alberth> LordAro: not working, I get 'internal server error' 10:32:20 <MNIM> Alberth: it shows to me 10:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: it's perspectively shortened, it's actually one of the strongest engines the DB has 10:32:44 <Elukka> NMIN: http://h0-freun.de/MUN/misc/ice_sem1.jpg 10:33:39 <Alberth> MNIM: weird 10:33:55 <appe> jesus christ 10:33:58 <appe> 148 million pounds 10:34:04 <MNIM> dude, are those systems actually compatible? 10:34:06 <appe> i guess this goes for cheating. 10:34:26 <Alberth> appe: you can also cheat money away 10:35:05 <appe> i dont really fancy cheating on money, though, i find it fun to experiment with speeds and grfs 10:35:13 <MNIM> eddi: isn't the taurus loc stronger? 10:35:18 <appe> for instance, instant loading+logic train+2048 map makes neat revenue 10:35:33 * andythenorth ponders a hack 10:35:40 <MNIM> also, electric locs are generally rather tiny compared to their non-electrified counterparts 10:35:49 <Diablo-D3> Ive switched to 2cc btw 10:35:54 <Alberth> appe: how is that not cheating? :p 10:35:55 <Diablo-D3> it seems to be better designed for gameplay 10:36:07 <Diablo-D3> ie, no goddamned cabooses 10:36:23 <appe> Alberth: its not like im trying to win something with it. 10:36:44 <Alberth> :) 10:36:47 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: the DB doesn't have a lot of tauruses. and the taurus has lower TE 10:36:51 * appe blames MNIM 10:37:09 <MNIM> D: 10:37:11 <MNIM> whyyyyy 10:37:16 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how many people place bridges 1 height unit off the ground 10:37:40 <Diablo-D3> I mean I know its 150 feet, but it looks strange 10:37:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: you missed the lengthy discussion where everybody wanted to have cabooses in the 2ccSet? :) 10:38:10 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: WWHHHYYY 10:38:15 <Diablo-D3> I mean if the grf managed it 10:38:15 <Diablo-D3> fine 10:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: i try to have 2 height levels if possible 10:38:27 <Diablo-D3> but doesnt 10:38:37 <Diablo-D3> and they're not cross compatible between grfs 10:38:44 <MNIM> oh, you mean how bridges seem rather low? 10:38:47 <Diablo-D3> if people want a caboose, then make a damned caboose grf 10:38:51 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: yeah 10:39:02 <Diablo-D3> it seems like a waste of a bridge 10:39:06 <MNIM> yeah, it's a bit odd 10:39:25 <Diablo-D3> 150 feet is a pretty high space 10:39:32 <MNIM> ottd is full of little graphical tricks 10:39:41 <appe> someone should make a grf with parameter settings for the amount of goods a cart can carry 10:39:47 <appe> i tried, and gave up 10:39:56 <LordAro> Alberth: apparently you fix that by deleting the cookie for it 10:39:59 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: well, ottd scale is so totally fucked 10:40:09 <MNIM> totally fucked, I wouldn't say that 10:40:18 <Diablo-D3> like lots of grfs have cars less than half of a tile 10:40:27 <Diablo-D3> to simulate shorter cars in the past 10:40:31 <Diablo-D3> _they're doing it wrong_ 10:40:36 <Diablo-D3> give me huge car lengths 10:40:43 <Diablo-D3> gigantic shit 10:40:48 * Eddi|zuHause hides 10:40:57 <MNIM> but yeah, ottd scale is a compromise for playability vs realism 10:41:12 * andythenorth recalls a rule where swearing == kick 10:41:21 <andythenorth> compulsive swearing == kban 10:41:28 <Diablo-D3> like, engines should be entire tiles 10:41:31 <MNIM> and to be realistic - ottd isn't that realistic 10:41:41 <Diablo-D3> Im not asking for realism 10:41:41 <Alberth> LordAro: works, thanks! 10:41:44 <Diablo-D3> I juist want it to look good 10:41:44 *** planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only 10:42:01 <Diablo-D3> and having tiny little graphics I can barely see isnt good 10:42:24 <MNIM> diablo, that's exactly the issue 10:42:41 <MNIM> if it were with a real scale, your trains would be hardly visible in a big city 10:42:49 <Alberth> LordAro: nice :) 10:42:50 <Diablo-D3> no 10:42:54 <Diablo-D3> the cities would be bigger :D 10:43:04 * Diablo-D3 drools 10:43:05 <Diablo-D3> huge cities 10:43:08 <MNIM> everything would be far, far bigger 10:43:16 <Diablo-D3> I like where this is headed :D 10:43:16 <MNIM> except for widths 10:43:23 <Diablo-D3> but yeah like, I dunno 10:43:25 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fancy dropping into #develop_firs ? 10:43:28 <Alberth> LordAro: but how to explain it to you :( 10:43:29 <Diablo-D3> a lot of stuff just bugs the hell out of me 10:43:32 <Diablo-D3> and theres no way to actually fix it 10:43:37 <Diablo-D3> without turning ottd into a different game 10:43:51 <Alberth> LordAro: a moment 10:43:52 <Diablo-D3> but having lengths that are less than half a tile just isnt doing it for me 10:43:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: any reason in particular? 10:43:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this channel is noisy 10:43:58 <MNIM> also, aircraft would be about the size of what an airport is right now 10:44:01 <Diablo-D3> the game runs on tile lengths, EVERYTHING 10:44:01 <andythenorth> I can't keep up :P 10:44:04 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: YES! 10:44:06 <Diablo-D3> GIANT AIRPORTS! 10:44:08 <Diablo-D3> DO WANT! 10:44:13 <MNIM> and GIANT MAPS! 10:44:18 <Diablo-D3> YEEESSS! 10:44:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anything that can wait a week? 10:44:30 <andythenorth> yes 10:44:30 <Diablo-D3> and realistic speeds! 10:44:33 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:44:36 <MNIM> where 2048x2048 is the smallest you go! 10:44:37 <andythenorth> can wait a year if it has to :) 10:44:58 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: YES! 10:45:04 <MNIM> >.< 10:45:11 <MNIM> dude 10:45:35 <Diablo-D3> well its either that or make subtile tracks and make everyone use zoom. 10:45:35 <MNIM> if you want to keep your lowest zoom as it is now to find your buses 10:45:49 <Diablo-D3> dude, I can barely find my busses as it is 10:45:54 <MNIM> at lowest zoom, your airport would span several stations 10:45:57 <Diablo-D3> this game has some serious damned issues 10:46:03 <MNIM> I mean span several screens 10:46:17 <Diablo-D3> and real airspeed :D 10:46:21 <Diablo-D3> infact 10:46:24 <Diablo-D3> lets just ditch airports 10:46:29 <Diablo-D3> they're largely a dumb hack anyhow 10:46:31 * andythenorth ponders 10:46:32 <MNIM> your railway station including access rails would span half a map 10:46:32 <appe> if i have a few hundred trains, and i wish to move them all to a new group 10:46:33 <appe> what to do 10:46:34 <appe> ? 10:46:43 <MNIM> appe: do they share orders? 10:46:47 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: well the alternative 10:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> realistically sized airports! 256x256!! 10:46:53 <Diablo-D3> is sub-tile tracks 10:46:54 <Elukka> <MNIM> also, electric locs are generally rather tiny compared to their non-electrified counterparts 10:46:57 <Diablo-D3> and 32bpp zoom manditory 10:47:04 <Elukka> i think european ones tend to be similar to the diesels but correspondingly more powerful 10:47:07 <Elukka> american diesels are huge though 10:47:10 <MNIM> eddi: exactly 10:47:33 <andythenorth> I am thinking of recoding popular vehicle grfs with fake intro dates, basically offsetting them over an extra 100 years 10:47:34 <MNIM> yeah, I meant as in diesel counterparts with comparable horseys 10:47:43 <andythenorth> wonder if Pikka will let me do that with NARS and UKRS 10:47:44 <Elukka> i think 3D graphics lend themselves better to realistic scale than 2D 10:47:49 <appe> MNIM: mmmno. 10:47:52 <Elukka> i don't see how TTD could be realistic scale and playable at the same itm 10:47:54 <Elukka> *same time 10:47:55 <V453000> andythenorth: what is that for? :) 10:47:57 <MNIM> hmmmh 10:48:03 <andythenorth> because I want to play for longer 10:48:11 <Elukka> it could have better scale, though 10:48:28 <MNIM> well, if they had shared orders, you could just move one and then click 'add all shared vehicles' 10:48:29 <andythenorth> patching grfs is much easier than patching time 10:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's the worst approach for "daylength" i have ever heard 10:48:31 <planetmaker> vehicles never expire? 10:48:38 <planetmaker> and done 10:48:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's also the most likely to win 10:48:44 <Elukka> ultimately ottd's scale is still today what was ideal for 1994 gameplay and screen resolutions 10:48:53 <MNIM> well, if you ask me 10:49:01 <MNIM> it's still ideal for 2010 resolutions 10:49:02 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, graphics could be about 50% bigger imo 10:49:04 <planetmaker> or a proper daylength 10:49:16 <Diablo-D3> 1920x1200 on a 26", its kinda small 10:49:36 <MNIM> I know I still wish I had more pixels at the end of my window sometimes 10:49:37 <andythenorth> proper daylength is pretty much impossible 10:49:38 <Elukka> everything is fairly tiny and signals rely on a few scant pixels to tell you what type they are 10:50:07 <appe> MNIM: ah, ok. ill rethink the next time i make a gazillion trains 10:50:21 <Elukka> it works and you get used to it but... if it was done today, i don't think the scale would be the same 10:51:48 <MNIM> sadly, appe, such thoughts always come after you've done it, eh 10:51:52 <MNIM> yeap 10:52:09 <MNIM> but transport sims aren't that popular anymore nowadays, are they? 10:52:20 <MNIM> (mainly because no modern one exist) 10:52:35 * MNIM adds an s to one or exist 10:53:29 <andythenorth> I'd need to adjust dates in industry + house grfs 10:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there exist one or two modern transport sims, but they haven't been that big successes 10:56:40 <Eddi|zuHause> check for "cities in motion" 10:56:50 <MNIM> ah, heard of that 10:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and the other one, that was supposed to be multiplayer 10:57:11 <MNIM> but as far as I know, it's nowhere near as open and versatile as ottd? 10:57:18 <Elukka> anyone played CiM? 10:57:24 <Elukka> MNIM that was my first thought too 10:57:33 <Elukka> i'm curious if it has any merit for someone who already plays ottd 10:57:41 <MNIM> I mean, OTTD is VAST 10:57:55 <MNIM> there's so many possibilities to explore and things to build 10:58:12 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> OTTD had 17 years of development behind it 10:58:34 <MNIM> that too 10:58:43 <appe> MNIM: it's funny. i have played openttd since 1948, and i find new things everyday. 10:58:55 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I doubt that newgrf-approach to daylength is the right solution 10:59:04 <planetmaker> (it's not, it's conceptually more flawed than all other approaches) 10:59:04 <planetmaker> if you want to play forever you can have vehicles never expire and start in 2050. Problem already solved 10:59:26 <planetmaker> simply as it cannot address the principle issue: time still would seem to progress to fast 10:59:32 <MNIM> 1948? hahaha 10:59:39 <planetmaker> hm... 10:59:42 <MNIM> anyway, it's lunchtime here 11:00:07 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the 'vehicles never expire' route destroys all gameplay progression 11:00:09 <planetmaker> it's ping-out time here it seems... :S 11:00:18 <MNIM> so Im not going to be supplying (un)intelligent conversation right now 11:00:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not really. Just do it yourself. It's as flexibly adjustable as one could want 11:00:36 *** V453000 [~V453000@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:00:36 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:01:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth: and as such, the time has to be adjusted in the game 11:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like too sandbox-y gameplay, it takes the incentive out to do anything 11:01:30 <planetmaker> As otherwise there'll be a big divergance between displayed time and newgrf-supplied 'feature-time'. 11:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you're better off using the year cheat 11:01:41 <planetmaker> Which is big nonsense to introduce 11:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of changing all newgrfs 11:01:54 <b_jonas> andythenorth: does it? you'll still want to replace to better vehicles to make your lines better 11:01:56 <andythenorth> but the newgrf route is actually viable 11:02:06 <andythenorth> whereas the others are not 11:02:07 <planetmaker> not really 11:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it's not 11:02:13 <andythenorth> why not? it's trivial 11:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to change so many newgrfs 11:02:17 <planetmaker> not at all. 11:02:23 <Eddi|zuHause> to make the timelines in synch 11:02:24 <planetmaker> what eddi says 11:02:24 <b_jonas> however, I don't play with that option 11:02:39 <b_jonas> I do prefer if vehicles break down and eventually support for them is phased out 11:02:47 <b_jonas> like, when the reliability suddenly drops 11:03:07 * andythenorth is tempted to do it just to prove the point 11:03:15 <andythenorth> it's just a rebase of intro dates, it's trivial 11:03:24 <b_jonas> just make sure that there's always at least one working vehicles for everything 11:03:28 <andythenorth> the only problem is I don't have source for pikka's grfs 11:03:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it works for a single newgrf. But in an ugly way. It fails as soon as you use any (any!) non-andy newgrf 11:03:51 <Alberth> LordAro: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/crash.png I always start drawing pictures when I get confused. The horizontal bar are memory cells, each holding a character. Pointers p and q point to a cell, and copy characters, until the crash when they modify the yellow area 11:04:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's not a practical route without agreement from grf authors, which is the biggest problem 11:04:31 <planetmaker> which is the fundamental flaw. Not a problem, but the killer 11:05:17 <andythenorth> if intro dates were a callback... 11:05:22 <planetmaker> the approach to accept yearly running costs or so to be wrong is the MUCH less worse solution 11:05:45 <planetmaker> wrong as in "not what newgrfs tell to use for normal daylength" 11:06:16 <planetmaker> as such, there is a way along these lines. It just has to be carefully crafted 11:06:27 <planetmaker> And no-one so far had the stamina to go through the newgrf details 11:06:34 <planetmaker> which is a pity 11:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro, Alberth: replacing \t with anything other than a single space is evil. 11:08:58 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: Sounds like a good compromise to me 11:11:02 * andythenorth considers rebasing to 0 11:11:14 <andythenorth> just treat dates as "delta from 0" 11:12:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that time really is MUCH better spent on adding a working daylength to openttd code 11:12:39 <andythenorth> my understanding was that daylength is just fundamentally blocked? 11:12:46 <LordAro> Alberth: nice picture! :) 11:12:54 <andythenorth> or at least, without a significant change in the way date calculations are handled? 11:12:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth: where does that understanding come from? 11:13:04 <andythenorth> discussions here 11:13:21 <Alberth> LordAro: yeah, my usual paper-based ones are much less nice :) 11:13:26 <planetmaker> well, of course you have to change *something* with the date... that's the point of *day*length 11:14:07 <planetmaker> the question probably is what needs adjustment and what is acceptable to change when daylength changes 11:14:46 <planetmaker> should monthly production of industries change? Should yearly running costs of vehicles change? What about purchase prices (why? why not?) 11:15:13 <planetmaker> what about the interval of recurring callbacks (256 ticks CB etc, tileloop,...) 11:15:14 <LordAro> Alberth/Eddi|zuHause: yeah, that makes sense, so just 1 space then? just noticed the the 2cc set uses tabs for alignment quite a lot 11:16:12 <planetmaker> Mostly it needs a stringent and consistent way to deal with the answers and to justify them 11:17:29 <planetmaker> one could e.g. up the daylength by 2, thus up all yearly costs by two, but simply downgrade the displayed costs 11:17:37 <planetmaker> or something 11:17:46 <planetmaker> display may work with floats ;-) 11:18:13 <planetmaker> hm, the local football team scored a goal, I guess 11:18:30 <Alberth> LordAro: for anything larger than 1 character, you need to first decide how much additional space you need at least, and allocate that. Then you need to move the loaded text to the end of the array. Then you can do the copying. 11:20:52 <LordAro> no then :D 11:21:14 <Alberth> you understand why that would work? 11:21:57 <Alberth> for learning C/C++ it is quite crucial to see how memory works in relation to data and pointers 11:21:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: alternative is to implement handling of \t in DrawString 11:24:35 <Alberth> good point 11:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but we just removed support for SetX 11:25:18 <planetmaker> yes... but for reading readmes... they might use \t a lot 11:25:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: the conceptual approach imo is *everything* should remain same, except how long irl it takes 1 unit of time to pass 11:25:45 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. 11:25:50 <andythenorth> adjusting industry production for example - would change the gameplay 11:26:00 <andythenorth> I'm only interested in keeping gameplay identical 11:26:10 <planetmaker> not adjusting means they produce daylength times more per month 11:26:27 <andythenorth> so by 'adjusting' I mean the final result 11:26:28 <planetmaker> not adjusting also means that all vehicle running costs are daylength more per month 11:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth, LordAro: but that sounds like a too little implementation detail to actually worry about. 11:27:01 <planetmaker> which then poses the question: what about purchase costs? 11:27:05 <andythenorth> same 11:27:11 <planetmaker> same as? as now? 11:27:13 <andythenorth> everything, same as now 11:27:26 <andythenorth> vehicle speeds? 11:27:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but you can't keep yearly running costs and monthly production the same 11:27:42 <andythenorth> for code reasons, or conceptual reasons? 11:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker, andythenorth: my last proposal was: muliply all purchase costs by daylength, divide all displayed costs by daylength 11:27:52 <planetmaker> what is 'the same'? 11:27:56 <MNIM> hmmmh 11:27:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has joined #openttd 11:27:59 <MNIM> I wonder 11:28:01 <planetmaker> vehicles moving less per tick? or the same? 11:28:13 <andythenorth> this is the most difficult question imo 11:28:16 <planetmaker> 'keeping everything the same' needs a clearer definition 11:28:18 <MNIM> does ottd have an updated debian/buntu repository? 11:28:30 <planetmaker> as 'everything the same' means 'no change in daylength' 11:28:31 <andythenorth> ok 11:28:33 <Wolf01> hello 11:28:33 * Alberth wonders whether making a newgrf that extends availability of engines wouldn't be sufficient as an alternative for daylength 11:28:34 <andythenorth> so lets test 11:28:39 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 11:28:43 <MNIM> well, aside from the default ubuntu repos 11:28:56 <andythenorth> assume the newgrf-with-fake-intro-dates route *was* viable (and assume I agree it's not) 11:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> 'keep everything the same' means: just modify the sleep()-time per tick 11:28:58 <planetmaker> just changing the ticks per day: production and running costs increase accordingly 11:29:04 <planetmaker> yeah 11:29:08 <andythenorth> how would we patch the game to achieve same results as faking intro dates? 11:29:13 <planetmaker> well 11:29:24 <planetmaker> what is 'faking intro dates'? 11:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> which is probably something that works well besides the daylength ideas 11:29:35 <andythenorth> ok 11:29:39 <planetmaker> that means that the year progresses in the same amount of ticks 11:29:43 <andythenorth> so assume I want to play twice as long 11:29:45 <planetmaker> thus time progression is NOT changed 11:29:47 <Rubidium> MNIM: just download the debian/ubuntu .debs from our server? 11:29:52 <andythenorth> so truck 1 is introduced in 1950 11:30:01 <andythenorth> currently truck 2 would be introduced in 1960 11:30:14 <andythenorth> but in my fake-intro-date-grf I introduce it in 1970 11:30:17 <Alberth> planetmaker: I don't care about the year, I just want to play longer with eg steam trains 11:30:27 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, that's what I want, too 11:30:34 <MNIM> I know, I was just wondering if there was a repo hidden somewhere so It would just update like my Firefox upgrades 11:30:34 <planetmaker> But IMHO the displayed year should match 11:30:42 <andythenorth> well yes, ideally 11:30:46 <andythenorth> no argument there 11:30:48 <MNIM> Im lazy: I like my auto-update 11:30:50 <Rubidium> can anyone confirm that SDL + big endian platform works correctly with the 8bpp blitter? 11:30:54 <Wolf01> still talking about daylength? 11:30:54 <planetmaker> as such, personally, I don't care if monthly cargo production skyrockets or yearly running costs and yearly revenue 11:31:08 <planetmaker> they're just proportionally higher, date is fine, etc 11:31:15 <planetmaker> a day would just get more ticks and done 11:31:15 <Wolf01> if somebody would like to help me I could finish the fake dates patch 11:31:15 <andythenorth> I care 11:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: instead of changing 800 introduction years, you should just display a fake date, like Wolf01's last daylength approach 11:31:26 <andythenorth> yes 11:31:53 <andythenorth> but I thought that was conceptually stuck? 11:31:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but wrt introduction etc. it has to be a real date 11:32:10 <planetmaker> it simply was not finished, andythenorth 11:32:14 <planetmaker> that's a difference IMHO 11:32:15 <Alberth> planetmaker: so what's wrong with having a newgrf that extends the lifetime of the engines and/or gives me more engines at a later date? 11:32:16 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@95-89-236-152-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 11:32:22 <IchGuckLive> Hi all 11:32:26 <Alberth> hi IchGuckLive 11:32:32 <planetmaker> Alberth: that's IMHO not a daylength 11:32:42 <andythenorth> I never asked for daylength :) 11:32:49 <andythenorth> I specifically didn't mention daylength 11:32:53 <planetmaker> under daylength I understand a setting where I say "time should progress more slowly" 11:33:09 <IchGuckLive> if i take the station diract to the source is this the same then the in the Range ? 11:33:13 <planetmaker> But introduction dates of vehicles doesn't change. But displayed time progression is slower 11:33:20 <andythenorth> yes 11:33:40 <MNIM> Hey Diablo-D3, you were the one who said that plane speeds were disproportional? 11:33:45 <Wolf01> Alberth, but you will be tied to one grf 11:33:47 <planetmaker> but IMHO the visual vehicle speed should now slow down to a crawl. That'd be a pain 11:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem is we can read between the lines :p 11:33:52 <Alberth> planetmaker: I was not considering day length, just making a certain era of engines longer available 11:33:52 <IchGuckLive> Thanks and 11:33:54 <Wolf01> with the patch you can use any grf 11:33:56 <LordAro> hmm. so, forget the tabs to multiple spaces thing. question: why does IsPrintable() not return false for '\r' ? 11:34:07 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, but that's IMHO the only purpose of daylength 11:34:09 <Alberth> Wolf01: true, that's a (huge) disadvantage 11:34:10 <andythenorth> I don't understand what is gained by daylength patch 11:34:23 *** IchGuckLive [~chatzilla@95-89-236-152-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 11:34:23 <Alberth> andythenorth: all grfs work again 11:34:46 <planetmaker> just saying "steam engines in _this_ newgrf are introduced later" doesn't cut it as you have to modify ALL newgrfs to match 11:34:46 <andythenorth> my understanding of daylength is that it slows down time? 11:34:52 <planetmaker> thus it needs an openttd-side solution 11:34:54 <MNIM> Have you looked at Advanced settings -> Vehicles -> Plane speed factor, Diablo-D3? 11:34:58 <andythenorth> so production is slower, vehicle speed is slower 11:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: exactly what you asked, it spreads the availability dates of vehicles 11:35:07 <MNIM> set it to 1/1, aircraft should now fly 'real' speeds 11:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicle speed and production is the same 11:35:20 <andythenorth> I want 365.25 * n days per year :P 11:35:31 <andythenorth> which would probably come to same as daylength 11:35:35 <planetmaker> that has the issue that vehicles crawl over the screen 11:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, production was always the most disputed piece 11:35:55 <Wolf01> andythenorth, production and speed are the same, you only calculate it monthly, every 6 months, every 3 months based on the reduction factor 11:36:27 <andythenorth> so if unpatched, industry produces 96t in Feb, when patched, it also produces 96t in feb 11:36:28 <Wolf01> the fake date patch doean't affect the economy at all 11:36:43 <andythenorth> so what is it stuck on? 11:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, it produces 96*daylength 11:36:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: vehicles moving at a pace of a snail 11:37:07 <andythenorth> why, and why, respectively? 11:37:09 <planetmaker> even the concorde, if n = 10 11:37:14 <andythenorth> you make assumptions that don't hold 11:37:21 <planetmaker> :-) 11:37:25 <dihedral> oi 11:37:26 <andythenorth> or you indicate why this isn't possible 11:37:27 <b_jonas> the problem with affecting the length of the year is that it also changes the lifetime of each vehicle you buy 11:37:29 <andythenorth> one or the other 11:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: production is not date-based 11:37:43 <planetmaker> it's tick-based ^ 11:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: production is tick-based 11:37:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: and that is one of the blockers 11:37:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: production happens every 256 ticks 11:38:11 <Wolf01> example: 96t production on FEB become -> 96t production on last three months 11:38:19 <b_jonas> wouldn't you still want a single train to work for only 20 or 30 years, but new types of train introduced only every 20 years? 11:38:35 <Wolf01> with a 4x factor 11:38:54 <planetmaker> x3? ;-) 11:39:12 <b_jonas> also, even if production is using ticks, does the station reputation and city reputation also not use dates? 11:39:22 <Wolf01> 1 month = 3 months 11:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: actually that is backwards, 96t per month turn into 96t per week 11:39:32 <LordAro> question2: is there a better way of representing a space, other than ' ' ? 11:39:36 <Wolf01> ok, yes 11:39:41 <andythenorth> I don't see how to solve the production issue 11:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: why? 11:39:53 <planetmaker> change the displayed values 11:39:53 <Wolf01> I saw it from the faked date perspective 11:40:11 <planetmaker> though then it will be funny, if a wagon is fully loaded with 1.5 passengers 11:40:26 <andythenorth> it won't just be production 11:40:40 <andythenorth> there's animation counters, town production, breakdown length, servicing 11:40:42 <andythenorth> etc etc 11:40:46 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: just doesn't seem quite right, i would've thought there would be something like '\t' 11:40:47 <b_jonas> wouldn't it be better to just adjust the introduction years of all trains at the start of the game/ 11:40:58 <b_jonas> and all other similar years that come from grfs 11:41:02 <Wolf01> animations will continue to be tick based 11:41:12 <planetmaker> yes, there's such things. They'll all have to be judged 11:41:19 <Wolf01> I just change the "periods of time" 11:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: space is not a special character 11:41:20 <planetmaker> But that doesn't make it 'impossible'. 11:41:34 <b_jonas> including the introduction year of oil towers 11:41:37 <andythenorth> accepting the 'wrong' year issue seems like a relatively small problem compared to rewriting most of the game's time handling 11:41:49 <andythenorth> hence the appeal of fake-intro-date-newgrfs 11:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: but maybe '\x20' or something 11:42:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but it's the wrong place. it makes things terribly inconsistent all over the place 11:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: but that doesn't make any sense to use 11:42:41 <planetmaker> just because 'it can be hacked around by newgrfs' doesn't make it the proper solution 11:42:55 <planetmaker> as you need to hack EVERY newgrf 11:42:58 <planetmaker> for a single game 11:43:15 <andythenorth> I know :( 11:43:24 <andythenorth> but you can see the appeal? 11:43:27 <planetmaker> or houses won't match trains won't match ships won't match industries 11:43:32 <planetmaker> no, I don't 11:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no, i only see the disadvantages 11:43:52 <planetmaker> as doing it for all newgrfs I need for a single game is more work than doing it roughly in OpenTTD 11:44:02 <Wolf01> or just create another property which works for all the compatible grfs and they set the intro dates accordingly to the option which does absolutely nothing for the standard grfs 11:44:18 <Wolf01> just a value in the options 11:44:18 <b_jonas> hey, I'm not saying it should be done by newgrfs 11:44:33 <b_jonas> but by an option in advanced settings that changes all those years when it loads grfs 11:44:51 <planetmaker> that's an openttd-solution which is way better than the newgrf-solution 11:44:57 <planetmaker> as it automatically works for all 11:45:06 <planetmaker> and that might make sense 11:45:19 <planetmaker> you just add on top a fake year display and you're done 11:45:31 <planetmaker> except the many rough edges ;-) 11:45:35 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: fine. just seems wrong, like using ' ' (thats supposed to be a tab btw) 11:45:46 <andythenorth> we have to find *all* the rough edges :( 11:45:52 <andythenorth> however, I'm prepared to help test :) 11:45:56 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 11:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: differnce is that \t is a "not-displayable" character (<0x20) 11:46:14 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: its not that plane speeds are disproportional 11:46:17 <Diablo-D3> its that their existence is 11:46:24 <MNIM> how so? 11:46:30 <andythenorth> (discussing gameplay not implementation)....time should roughly scale with map size 11:46:33 <Diablo-D3> much much much smaller in scale than everything else 11:46:50 <andythenorth> in original ttd, if anything, there was too long between vehicle upgrades 11:47:24 <planetmaker> should it? I don't think there's a relation between the two ;-) 11:47:31 <andythenorth> well on a big map there's more to do 11:47:35 <planetmaker> but that doesn't matter, if they can be freely adjustable 11:47:36 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: they dont fit 11:47:46 <MNIM> well yeah, a jumbojet the size of a single tile containing as many passengers as a whole train 11:47:46 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: all the other broken scales could be legitimately fixed 11:48:11 <MNIM> diablo: you build the 3d engine needed to properly do that? 11:48:13 <Diablo-D3> like, honestly, make industries and city buildings 2x bigger 11:48:20 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: several already exist 11:48:29 <andythenorth> Diablo-D3: what's gained by this work? 11:48:39 <Diablo-D3> andythenorth: its more fun 11:48:48 <andythenorth> on what basis? 11:49:00 <MNIM> none of them as versatile and complicated as ottd. also, most of 'em aren't to schale either. 11:49:02 <b_jonas> what? no way 11:49:10 <Alberth> Diablo-D3: and an airport about 1000x100 tiles ? 11:49:20 <Diablo-D3> it looks like Im playing final fantasy train edition. 11:49:20 <Alberth> *1000 11:49:24 <Diablo-D3> Alberth: yeah thats the problem 11:49:30 <Diablo-D3> I'd rather just get rid of planes 11:49:33 <andythenorth> Diablo-D3: is the issue you can't see the pixels? 11:49:39 <andythenorth> or that you want realism? 11:49:40 <andythenorth> or what? 11:49:50 <Diablo-D3> andythenorth: its a tad hard to see sometimes, yes 11:49:56 <andythenorth> that's a valid issue 11:50:02 <planetmaker> realism :-D 11:50:24 <Diablo-D3> train/truck scale mismatch is okay though 11:50:26 <andythenorth> realism is not a valid issue 11:50:32 <Diablo-D3> this game isnt real at all 11:50:32 <Wolf01> my target was to have day length and game speed adjustable, so you can also play with standard day length and reduced speed (good to have all under control in some situations like modifying a junction/signalling or to shunt stuck trains) or play at the fastest speed with huge day length 11:50:35 <Diablo-D3> no one pretends it to be 11:50:43 <Diablo-D3> andythenorth: the obsessiveness with train car size is bad too 11:50:51 <Diablo-D3> no train car size should ever be below half a tile 11:51:06 <Diablo-D3> like, one of the grfs I had loaded had like 1/10th of a tile 11:51:09 <Diablo-D3> seriously, wtf 11:51:14 <planetmaker> Wolf01: why don't you finish one first (preferably vehicles moving the same)? 11:51:21 <Diablo-D3> you cant even see the cars 11:51:32 <appe> is there a maglev grf with bigger carts? 11:51:41 <Wolf01> lack of knowledge, code style, and will :P 11:51:45 <Diablo-D3> I mean if they want that, make gigantic multi-tile stuff 11:51:49 <andythenorth> Wolf01: does the patch work at all? 11:51:53 <planetmaker> :-( @ Wolf01 11:51:58 <Wolf01> yes, the fake dates work 11:52:00 <Diablo-D3> sure it turns into some bizzaro narrow width model train 11:52:09 <Wolf01> I should update it 11:52:16 <Diablo-D3> but at least it looks usable 11:52:23 <planetmaker> yes it worked. And when it was about to get the fine-tuning it was abandoned :-( 11:52:24 <andythenorth> Wolf01: will it work with savegames from trunk ottd? 11:52:30 <planetmaker> when all people got excited 11:53:13 <Wolf01> it should, but the faked date will be initialised from the year you start 11:53:35 <andythenorth> fine by me 11:53:39 <andythenorth> it's in the dev forums? 11:53:44 <planetmaker> yeah 11:53:49 <Wolf01> as I remember, yes, it is 11:53:56 <planetmaker> half a year(?) or so back 11:54:01 <Wolf01> maybe 11:54:08 <planetmaker> maybe one 11:54:12 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:54:55 <Wolf01> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52230&hilit=fake#p923490 11:56:15 <andythenorth> oh 11:56:22 <andythenorth> it won't apply with my usual method 11:56:34 <andythenorth> curl http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=139293 | patch -p1 11:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: how about drawing an engine for a change? :) http://www.rbd-breslau.de/12-elloks/es_15.html http://www.zackenbahn.de/images/fahrzeuge/e01/e01_tz2.jpg 11:57:09 <Elukka> but that's hard D: 11:57:18 <Wolf01> it's a svn diff 11:57:27 <andythenorth> Elukka: that one's just a box :) 11:57:29 <andythenorth> start small 11:57:43 <appe> anyone of you use the logic trainset regulary? 11:57:44 <Elukka> ha 11:57:46 <andythenorth> so I have to figure out svn diffs... 11:57:52 <Elukka> i could do that once i get the 4 axle coaches done 11:57:56 <Elukka> which i would but i'm playing games :P 11:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> it's almost a wagon with pantographs on top. just the transformator in the front is slightly irregular 11:58:20 <appe> it has a maximum speed of >60.000km/h. with one cart or more it's less then 11.000. can i use a setting to max it anyway? 11:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: that's the relativistic effect 11:59:26 <andythenorth> so how do I apply an svn diff to a hg repo? 11:59:35 <Eddi|zuHause> 60.000km/h is 0.2*c 11:59:42 <Alberth> patch -p0 < file.patch 12:00:18 <appe> uhm, Eddi|zuHause 60.000km/*s* is 0.2*c, afaik. 12:00:24 <andythenorth> hunks fail with -p0 12:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, right 12:00:45 <Eddi|zuHause> small rounding error :p 12:01:02 <appe> hehe 12:01:02 <andythenorth> Hunk #2 FAILED at 147. 12:01:03 <andythenorth> 1 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file src/statusbar_gui.cpp.rej 12:01:19 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then the patch is outdated 12:01:22 <andythenorth> k 12:01:37 <appe> Eddi|zuHause: i would not like my 6500 tonne train to de-rail in 0.2c. 12:01:44 <appe> that would be planet splitting in action 12:01:54 <b_jonas> isn't speed of light higher in openttd? 12:01:56 <Wolf01> it's very outdated r21872 or r22157 12:02:26 <Alberth> andythenorth: normally, the revision is mentioned in the header of a file 12:03:56 <appe> a realistic way to determine the speed of light in the openttd universe would be to calculate how many calculations the cpu can handle with the speed-button on, and then putting that number in the <maximum speed>-parameter 12:04:19 <appe> would be neat to have a 6kilotonne train do terraflops of kilometers an hour 12:04:46 <appe> "so, how's openttd going for you?" "-yeah, it's neat. im doing 1.6terraparsecs at the moment". 12:05:48 <andythenorth> hmm 12:05:51 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-3.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 12:05:53 <andythenorth> why won't that patch? 12:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that's probably the most complicated to draw: http://www.rbd-breslau.de/12-elloks/ellok_alt/e71_14.html (if you want a real challenge :p) 12:06:20 <andythenorth> ah 12:06:28 <andythenorth> SetDParam(0, MAX_YEAR * DAYS_IN_YEAR); 12:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds wrong 12:07:42 <andythenorth> l let me check I didn't misunderstand 12:08:45 <andythenorth> trunk seems to have that 12:09:00 <andythenorth> r22939 12:09:06 <andythenorth> statusbar_gui.cpp 12:12:14 * Alberth guesses in size calculation 12:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem with that is that it results in "31st Dec 5000000", but "30th Dec 5000000" is potentially longer 12:14:36 <andythenorth> hmm 12:14:39 <andythenorth> what should I do? 12:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd probably add a margin 12:15:22 <andythenorth> all I want to do is apply wolf's patch :( 12:15:23 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's even worse ;) 12:15:39 <Rubidium> @calco 5000000/4/365 12:15:44 <Rubidium> @calc 5000000/4/365 12:15:44 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 3424.65753425 12:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: oh, right ;) 12:16:02 <Rubidium> it's somewhere in 4999990 12:16:04 <JVassie> @calc 1/0 12:16:05 <DorpsGek> JVassie: Error: float division 12:16:07 <JVassie> weeee 12:18:01 <Wolf01> andythenorth, try with my patch and not the updated one 12:18:23 <Wolf01> but then you have to update it by yourself :P 12:18:37 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 5000000*0.2425 12:18:37 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1212500 12:19:09 <andythenorth> plpp 12:19:48 <andythenorth> how about a patch that uses the date cheat to rewind the year at year end 12:19:53 <andythenorth> while count < n 12:19:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1922:d8b3:bcc8:c107] has joined #openttd 12:19:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:20:02 <andythenorth> count++ every year end 12:20:09 <andythenorth> if count >= n, count = 0 12:20:19 <andythenorth> job done 12:20:28 <andythenorth> ¿? 12:20:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you have longer leap years ;) 12:21:18 <andythenorth> and vehicles become available, then become unavailable again briefly 12:21:28 <andythenorth> bit like real life when production problems prevent shipping 12:21:52 <andythenorth> make 'n' an advanced setting 12:21:54 <andythenorth> problem solved 12:22:11 <andythenorth> everything else works as normal 12:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> "count++%=n" is probably evil :p 12:22:42 <andythenorth> anyone want to code it for amusement? 12:23:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd guess it's undefined there whether that results in 0 or n 12:24:11 <Alberth> count++ is not an lvalue :) 12:24:35 <glx> add parenthesis ;) 12:24:48 <glx> but indeed that can't work 12:27:32 <andythenorth> if (count<n) { year = current_year -1; count = 0 } else { count++ } 12:27:42 <andythenorth> except in c++ 12:27:59 <andythenorth> hmm 12:28:01 <andythenorth> that's wrong 12:28:14 <andythenorth> if (count<n) { year = current_year -1; count ++ } else { count =0 } 12:29:52 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 12:29:57 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 12:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/date_cheat.diff (concept, doesn't compile, does not have saveload support) 12:34:43 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> err... wrong 12:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> should be better now 12:37:00 <andythenorth> 'garbage in the patch input' 12:37:06 <andythenorth> we solved that once before... 12:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> curl -L 12:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> you should always do that 12:37:57 <andythenorth> yeah 12:38:00 <andythenorth> fails to compile :) 12:38:22 <Eddi|zuHause> replace YEAR_COUNT with a random number of your choice 12:39:24 <Alberth> 1 12:39:44 <andythenorth> 1 = 2? 12:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that's kinda useless then :p 12:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 is "original behaviour" 12:40:02 * andythenorth tests 12:40:20 * andythenorth wants a faster compiler 12:40:47 <andythenorth> it takes over a minute 12:40:47 <Alberth> make -j 12:40:54 <andythenorth> I use that :) 12:41:02 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone ever noticed that when you change it so MAX_YEAR==ORIGINAL_END_YEAR, the year-loop doesn't work? 12:41:04 <Alberth> make -j 4 12:41:40 <Eddi|zuHause> should remove the "else" in that section of code 12:42:31 <MNIM> hmmmh 12:42:56 <MNIM> Im currently cheating myself a mountain range and a coastal line lined with fjords 12:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> bah... *should not fiddle with code* 12:43:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: works 12:43:44 * andythenorth contends that's the least broken date/time patch so far 12:44:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's so many things broken with that... 12:44:27 <andythenorth> vehicle introductions, money 12:44:36 <andythenorth> graphics that change by date 12:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> year 2050 is broken 12:44:47 <andythenorth> I'm going to use it anyway 12:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> saveload is broken 12:44:55 <andythenorth> broken? 12:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the year count is lost on saveload 12:45:18 <andythenorth> ach 12:45:26 <andythenorth> not worth worrying about 12:45:35 <andythenorth> this is a fool's patch anyway :) 12:45:40 <andythenorth> it's clearly a wrong route 12:45:45 <andythenorth> yet it achieves the result I want 12:50:24 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 12:57:27 <andythenorth> patching FIRS station ratings was a very good move. The result is fun 12:57:36 <andythenorth> although I now have an RV problem :P 12:59:43 <Terkhen> are you testing egrvts2? :) 13:00:17 <andythenorth> not yet 13:03:21 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 13:07:34 * andythenorth suggests pipelines 13:08:49 <Diablo-D3> pipelines? 13:10:50 <andythenorth> pipelines 13:11:01 <Alberth> auto-add money to your bank account every day 13:17:40 * Prof_Frink suggests Portals 13:18:36 <andythenorth> ? 13:27:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 13:38:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you should finish the year cheat patch and ship it in trunk :D :P 13:38:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt that 13:41:44 <andythenorth> it's awesome 13:42:34 <Terkhen> what patch? replay the same year forever? 13:42:48 * LordAro always enjoys reading mb's bug reports/feature requests :) 13:43:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: for a fixed number of times 13:43:14 <andythenorth> replay the same year for n 13:43:55 * andythenorth has a very fickle reason for wanting roadtypes 13:44:03 <andythenorth> option for trams without catenary 13:44:15 <andythenorth> then add more industrial narrow gauge to HEQS 13:45:49 <Terkhen> just drop them into normal trams too :P 13:46:10 <andythenorth> ? 13:47:43 <Terkhen> the sprites are too small to notice those things, let them all use the same track :P 13:48:59 <andythenorth> I notice catenary :) 13:49:10 <Terkhen> remove it for all trams 13:49:14 <andythenorth> hmm 13:49:24 <andythenorth> Terkhen: they would all use the same track 13:49:31 <Terkhen> it's suboptimal, but... :) 13:49:35 <andythenorth> it's just same as rail vs elrail 13:49:46 <andythenorth> I've played with catenary off for a bit 13:51:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember one of my first appearances in this channel was "i can't get elrail.grf to work" 13:51:47 <Rubidium> I guess it doesn't work again ;) 13:51:56 <andythenorth> hmm 13:52:02 <andythenorth> farms at one end of river 13:52:06 <andythenorth> grain mill at other 13:52:12 <andythenorth> what to do? 13:52:23 <JVassie> play with the traffic? 13:52:27 <Rubidium> use a plane 13:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> flatten the landscape and build massive maglev network! 13:53:03 <Terkhen> destroy the river 13:53:25 <Eddi|zuHause> about these river docks... 13:53:58 <andythenorth> oh 13:54:04 <andythenorth> I just spent all my money prospecting :( 13:54:08 <andythenorth> oops 13:54:43 <Diablo-D3> heh 13:56:23 <appe> i have a small signal issue 13:56:25 <JVassie> lol 13:56:29 * JVassie points and laughs 13:56:32 <JVassie> oh wai.. 13:56:44 <appe> three tracks, three trains 13:56:46 <appe> http://gyazo.com/9814e3b06b8d8cb795d0e4c569f02f95.png 13:57:00 <appe> i want them to choose the nearest free station 13:57:13 <JVassie> define nearest 13:57:22 <appe> one of the three on the right 13:57:33 <JVassie> as opposed to? 13:58:02 <appe> when using the system as displayed on the picture, they rarely choose en empty station 13:58:11 <appe> mostly, they just wait behind each other 13:58:34 <JVassie> which version of (o)ttd(p) you using? 13:58:47 <andythenorth> remind me why cargo can't be round-robined to industries when a station overlaps more than one accepting industry? 13:58:47 <appe> 1.1.2 13:59:17 <JVassie> This document was successfully checked as HTML5! 13:59:17 <JVassie> Result: Passed, 1 warning(s) 13:59:21 <JVassie> gah 13:59:25 <JVassie> http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals 13:59:29 <JVassie> read that link appe :) 14:00:56 <JVassie> path signals would be best 14:04:08 <appe> hm, ok 14:04:10 <appe> ill try it out 14:04:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: because nobody implemented it 14:11:11 <andythenorth> the usual 14:11:26 <andythenorth> has anybody else tried a FIRS game with the station ratings patch? 14:11:26 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 14:11:35 <Diablo-D3> station settings? 14:11:39 <Terkhen> nope 14:11:46 <Terkhen> I'm starting a 0.7.0 beta game now 14:12:32 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:32 <andythenorth> if anything, the ratings are a little too generous 14:12:34 <andythenorth> :) 14:12:53 <andythenorth> also, it might be useful to implement a decay after n years 14:13:11 <andythenorth> currently I have 900t cargo waiting at a station I served by accident about 50 years ago 14:13:26 <Diablo-D3> heh 14:13:34 <Diablo-D3> I wish I could turn off supply altogether 14:13:46 <appe> hm, i have a 64-square station, and 64-square trains filling up. how come it stays at the station (with 100% loaded) for 30-40 seconds? 14:13:49 <appe> :( 14:14:03 <Diablo-D3> just click like "do not take coal" and it disables coal delivery, dumps the coal off the station, and removes the coal rating 14:16:55 <Terkhen> appe: my guess is that those huge sizes are messing with the pathfinder 14:17:14 <Terkhen> the train has 64 possible ways of getting to the station :P 14:17:18 <Terkhen> to the next* 14:19:17 <Alberth> do you use time tables? 14:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: just drop the rating to 0 after 2 years of nothing picked up? 14:27:40 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: something like that yes 14:27:54 <andythenorth> Maybe Yexo has an opinion - as he coded it? 14:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.security-informatics.de/blog/?p=425 <-- interesting graphs on online-journalism quality (german) 14:31:36 <Terkhen> meh 14:31:47 <Terkhen> after 10 minutes playing I find something to code 14:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that feeling :p 14:32:09 <andythenorth> he 14:32:34 <andythenorth> after 5 mins of playing, I find something for someone else to code :P 14:33:13 <andythenorth> someone did draggable roadstops 14:33:14 <andythenorth> thanks 14:33:38 <Terkhen> they have been in for long :P 14:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> was that one of Wolf01's patches? 14:34:18 <Terkhen> yes 14:34:26 <Terkhen> one of my favourites :P 14:34:48 <Terkhen> http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/bug.png <--- I wonder how no one has noticed this 14:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> sloped road stations are still not in. 14:35:01 <Terkhen> the patch was not finished IIRC 14:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: looks like an obiwan in text height calculation 14:35:54 * Terkhen tries different font sizes 14:36:33 <planetmaker> what exactly in that screeny, Terkhen? 14:36:50 <Terkhen> black lines in the water, a result of dragging the ship window around 14:36:56 <Terkhen> the long letters cause them 14:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: black dots leftover from dragging the window 14:37:13 <planetmaker> oh, I didn't see them :-) 14:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: that was a frequent sight back when lines were not cropped on length 14:37:53 <Rubidium> Terkhen: does it happen with the original font as well? Otherwise the OpenGFX font is just a pixel too high 14:38:04 <Terkhen> it's using arial 14:38:14 <Terkhen> my guess is that it does not happen with either sprite font, let's see 14:38:25 <Terkhen> with bigger fonts it is even more visible 14:40:00 <Terkhen> yes, opengfx and ttdoriginal are clean of this problem 14:42:42 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest10651 14:42:42 *** Guest10651 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:42 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:42:42 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 14:45:25 <andythenorth> bbl 14:45:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 15:05:48 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 15:06:08 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:17:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:33 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:25:32 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 15:25:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-195-171.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "Steam - downloading Portal (73%)" man... that takes forever... 15:29:57 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 15:35:11 <Terkhen> worth the wait :P 15:35:36 <Diablo-D3> meh 15:35:48 <Diablo-D3> you can only beat it so many times before you start speed running it by accident 15:37:04 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 15:56:53 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 15:59:23 *** Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 16:07:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-080.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:08:05 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:12:18 <Eddi|zuHause> so, planetmaker, your roads swallow cars nowadays? 16:12:31 <planetmaker> hm? 16:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,786865,00.html 16:13:29 <planetmaker> nice :-) 16:13:48 <planetmaker> well... spice worms are everywhere, you know 16:14:18 <planetmaker> but he's on a diet. No devestator. Just a small buggy... 16:14:29 <planetmaker> s/buggy/quad/ 16:35:46 <andythenorth> hmm 16:36:03 <andythenorth> I figure FIRS could use another destination for Metal 16:36:14 <andythenorth> Metal -> Building Materials could be valid 16:36:44 <andythenorth> currently the destinations are Foundry (Goods, Man. Supplies), and Machine Shop (Farm Supplies, Eng. Supplies) 16:36:58 <andythenorth> and the Forge, which is only valid before about 1870 16:42:30 <planetmaker> milk maybe could go to shops 16:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> car factory accepting metal and man. supplies, or only man. supplies 16:46:59 <Eddi|zuHause> remove goods from foundry then 16:47:10 <Eddi|zuHause> (i suggested that before) 16:48:13 <Eddi|zuHause> foundry: metal -> msup, bdmt; car factory: msup -> good 16:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (msup representing metal parts, plastic, glass) 16:51:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: a car factory is planned for at least one economy, yes 16:52:14 <andythenorth> as lots of sets have car transporters, perhaps it's a good idea 16:54:06 <Alberth> finally I can take my car with me when going on holiday to a luxurious resort 16:54:38 <Wolf01> somebody invented real-life-zip? 16:55:32 * Alberth wishes that, in RL I don't have such a car :p 17:09:42 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:19:09 *** DabuYu [~jkuckartz@128.250.79.189] has quit [] 17:33:24 <b_jonas> so you can buy trucks in car factories cheaper? 17:34:23 <planetmaker> I would expect trucks are produced in truck factories while car factories build cars ;-) 17:34:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so at night it's colder than outside? 17:35:11 <planetmaker> definitely 17:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dunkel wars, der Mond schien helle" 17:36:41 <planetmaker> "als ein Auto blitzeschnelle, langsam um die Ecke bog" 17:36:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "Schneebedeckt die grÃŒne Flur" 17:37:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "als ein Auto blitzeschnelle" 17:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "langsam um die Ecke fuhr" 17:38:02 <planetmaker> right. 17:38:10 <planetmaker> "Drinnen saÃen stehend Leute" 17:38:24 <planetmaker> "schweigend ins GesprÀch vertieft" 17:38:48 <planetmaker> "als ein totgeschossener Hase" 17:38:57 <planetmaker> "auf der Sandbank Schlitschuh lief" 17:39:14 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:44:30 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22940 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt slovak.txt): 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latvian - 29 changes by Parastais 17:45:29 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: slovak - 160 changes by klingacik 18:01:13 * andythenorth considers having foundry produce building materials instead of goods 18:01:17 <andythenorth> and introducing a factory 18:01:22 <andythenorth> but maybe a car plant is best 18:01:48 <andythenorth> I suppose increasing the number of cargos is out of the question? 18:02:22 *** bandersnatch [bandersnat@cs27010082.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 18:05:02 <b_jonas> I actually think the default mediterranian industry tree in openttd is well designed, and don't want to switch. 18:05:15 <b_jonas> but then, it's best if you experiment 18:07:38 <andythenorth> I want to add an Auto Parts cargo, but I'm out of slots 18:07:50 <JVassie> make more slots 18:07:59 <andythenorth> right 18:08:04 <andythenorth> let me know when that's done :P 18:08:47 <andythenorth> I have one spare, but that's needed for regearing by NARS 2 18:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> screw NARS 2. regearing cargo is a totally wrong concept 18:12:45 <andythenorth> it is 18:12:51 <andythenorth> but I'm playing a game with it at the moment 18:12:53 <andythenorth> it's fun 18:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> implement livery refits without an actual cargo 18:13:16 <andythenorth> maybe locomotives should get another 16 special slots 18:13:25 <andythenorth> like persistent storage 18:13:38 <andythenorth> someone would think up some evil :/ 18:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> "cargo subtype" is pretty much "persistent storage" 18:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and you have animation frame as well 18:14:09 <andythenorth> yeah, but it needs a cargo 18:14:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is exactly the problem 18:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be extended so you don't need a cargo 18:14:50 <andythenorth> spec? 18:15:22 <Eddi|zuHause> there's an old thread in the newgrf technical forum about "views" for vehicles 18:17:22 <andythenorth> so I should add the Auto Parts cargo? 18:17:31 <andythenorth> that's really it then for FIRS, 32 cargos defined 18:17:57 <andythenorth> might need a bit of discussion first 18:18:54 <Diablo-D3> wtf is cargo regearing anyhow? 18:19:21 <V453000> play NARS, see for yourself 18:19:35 <Diablo-D3> I did 18:19:41 <Diablo-D3> infact I dumped nars and ukrs 18:19:56 <Diablo-D3> the only thing I saw was some vehicles said they didnt carry gears. 18:20:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I was thinking the following. rubber plantation -> chemicals. 18:20:56 <andythenorth> chemicals -> tyre factory -> auto parts 18:21:23 <V453000> andythenorth: some further cargoes for FIRS? :o 18:21:27 <andythenorth> maybe one 18:21:30 <andythenorth> might be a bad idea 18:21:33 <andythenorth> feel free to stamp on it 18:21:43 <andythenorth> possible manufacturing supplies does the same when analysed 18:21:52 <Diablo-D3> I switched to 2cc 18:21:54 <Diablo-D3> but... I dunnno 18:22:00 <Diablo-D3> I think I accidently made the game not fun 18:23:00 <V453000> andythenorth: is there any version to test, or are there no new industry types since r2081? 18:23:29 <andythenorth> V453000: I'd have to check repo 18:23:38 <andythenorth> there are new industries since 0.6.4 18:23:39 <V453000> dont bother, I was just wondering 18:23:48 <V453000> oh :) then I might be quite interested :p 18:24:11 <andythenorth> there are 4 new, and some changes 18:24:12 <andythenorth> http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies 18:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think manufacturing supplies should be enough 18:24:41 <andythenorth> could be 18:24:46 <andythenorth> I really want a tyre plant :P 18:25:18 <andythenorth> and a rubber plantation 18:25:22 <Eddi|zuHause> rubber plantation -> chemical plant -> manufacturing supplies 18:25:23 <andythenorth> although both are possible :) 18:25:42 <V453000> ooh recyclables :) 18:26:05 <V453000> when is 0.7 expected? 18:26:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the current 'plastics plant' could be renamed 18:26:24 <Eddi|zuHause> christmas. :p 18:26:39 <andythenorth> V453000: there's a beta now, forums / bundle server only 18:26:40 <Diablo-D3> you know what the problem with the game is, really? 18:26:46 <Diablo-D3> its impossible to make a profitable route now 18:26:49 <andythenorth> how do I block someone? 18:26:51 <Diablo-D3> and Im not sure what I did 18:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> block from what? 18:27:09 <andythenorth> irc 18:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> /ignore Diablo-D3 18:27:21 <andythenorth> V453000: there might not be a bananas release of 0.7.x due to ottd compatibility; we might go straight to 0.8.0 18:27:24 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: hurrr. 18:27:29 <V453000> :d 18:27:49 <Diablo-D3> Seriously, its really damned difficult to make a profitable route with the settings Im using 18:28:15 <V453000> andythenorth: sorry, I was just in folder firs.nml :D 18:28:43 <andythenorth> why sorry? 18:28:49 <andythenorth> :) 18:28:57 <V453000> needless questions :P 18:29:00 <andythenorth> nvm 18:29:07 * andythenorth likes to talk 18:29:15 <V453000> btw I just completed all my wagons today with full support of FIRS :P 18:29:54 <Diablo-D3> Im actually wondering of ECS is just screwed 18:30:37 <Diablo-D3> due to really tiny industry limits, basically once a route is profitable, the route wont accept more cargo 18:30:50 <Diablo-D3> and it takes a few chains of shit to dump cargo off completely 18:32:11 <andythenorth> V453000: the recycling plant produces randomised output cargos (decided when it constructs) 18:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2007-05-27?page=2 18:32:24 * Eddi|zuHause hides 18:32:32 <SpComb> gaaah, date-links 18:32:36 <SpComb> those are timezone-dependent! 18:32:45 <V453000> hmm, so what are the additional cargoes? recyclables, and some other? 18:32:51 <V453000> ok :) 18:32:52 <andythenorth> alcohol maybe? 18:32:59 <V453000> I have alcohol involved 18:33:00 <andythenorth> hmm 18:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i can't link to lines from that page 18:33:05 <andythenorth> that was in 0.6 18:33:13 <andythenorth> V453000 just one extra cargo 18:33:17 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: yes you can, it's just kind of... hidden 18:33:22 <V453000> good :) 18:33:23 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: and then just put the timezone into the link 18:33:26 <George> Diablo-D3: Pleas provide detailed feedback. What exectly do you suggest. Saying "is just screwed" is not much profitable 18:33:33 <SpComb> mouse-hover on the left of the timestamp 18:33:49 <V453000> guess I have something to draw then :P 18:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1180222519#1180222519 18:34:05 <Diablo-D3> George: Im not suggesting anything 18:34:11 <Diablo-D3> Im just wondering if ECS just isnt fun 18:34:12 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: that's _really_ hidden 18:34:24 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: once upon a time you could hover over the timestamp 18:34:35 <George> You are not wondering. You are saing you impression 18:34:50 <SpComb> Eddi|zuHause: perhaps.. :) 18:35:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but the line i was actually searching for isn't in my logs, so i can't properly grep for it... 18:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> @stats 18:35:36 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: I have 15 registered users with 23 registered hostmasks; 3 owners and 0 admins. 18:35:39 <Diablo-D3> George: well, if, say, ten train trips fill an industry 18:35:46 <Diablo-D3> George: and the industry wont process fast enough 18:35:48 <Diablo-D3> Im screwed 18:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, not wat i was searching fore... 18:36:32 <George> ten train trips fill an industry <- show a savegame ;) 18:36:40 <Diablo-D3> George: I know I can turn off stockpile limits, but ECS wasnt meant to be played that way 18:36:51 <Diablo-D3> George: I had trains that did like 900 tons of coal per trip 18:37:04 <Diablo-D3> and the limit was like 8000 tons 18:37:14 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: i think your search is broken 18:37:19 <SpComb> oh dear 18:37:30 <George> If you you are as V453000 played ECS in 2010 last time, that does not mean nothing has changed since then ;) 18:37:42 <V453000> :p 18:37:45 <Diablo-D3> no Im in 1920. 18:37:50 <V453000> :D 18:37:51 <V453000> :D 18:37:52 <V453000> :D 18:38:01 <George> :))) 18:38:05 <Diablo-D3> V453000: what did you od 18:38:08 <Diablo-D3> *do 18:38:13 <V453000> laugh at you 18:39:29 <SpComb> hmm... and the calendar year dropdown apparently stops at 2009 18:40:14 <andythenorth> V453000 new industries for 0.7.x are hardware store, recycling depot, recycling plant, hotel 18:41:16 *** jerry_ [~jerry@c-24-9-36-205.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:41:16 <V453000> yeah, I saw, but no other cargoes than recyclables, right? 18:42:21 <SpComb> hah 18:42:44 <V453000> (I am drawing a special wagon for each cargo, so I need to know if there are any extra cargoes) 18:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you should definitely prepare a wagon that catches all cargos that are not known yet at the time of writing the grf 18:43:57 <V453000> well, sure, I know 18:45:22 <V453000> I just want to have many covered 18:45:33 <andythenorth> V453000: no other new cargos. And recyclables can use scrap metal sprite, or covered wagons 18:45:34 <Diablo-D3> hrm. 18:45:48 <V453000> andythenorth: duh. new wagon :P 18:45:50 <Diablo-D3> you know, FIRS looks like a better setup 18:46:02 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:25 <andythenorth> Diablo-D3: they're just different 18:46:32 <andythenorth> ECS != FIRS 18:46:43 <Diablo-D3> I never said they were == 18:47:25 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:47:32 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [] 18:47:34 <Diablo-D3> its just that it seems to be too difficult to serve an entire vector from start to finish 18:47:43 <Diablo-D3> and if you dont, you cant offload cargo 18:47:49 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 18:50:56 *** pjpe [ae5f4224@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're throwing around the phrase "too difficult" too lightly 18:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> just that you don't manage it after half an hour doesn't mean it's "too difficult" 18:52:22 <Diablo-D3> dont get me wrong, I think its an interesting game mechanic 18:52:25 <Diablo-D3> its just very unbalanced 18:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> then make clear improvements 18:53:05 <Diablo-D3> not sure if its possible. 18:53:32 <Rubidium> yeah, lets make everything balanced perfectly 18:57:12 <Rubidium> e.g. lets let a day be roughly 800 trillion periods of radiation of caesium 133 ;) 18:58:14 <Diablo-D3> heh 18:58:20 <andythenorth> Rubidium: more helpfully, could you 'balance' rivers to sometimes be two tiles wide? 18:58:25 <andythenorth> or more 18:58:28 <andythenorth> for amusement 18:58:38 <Alberth> I was more thinking to have always the same starting map so it can be optimally balanced 18:58:46 <andythenorth> remove the random seed 18:59:03 <andythenorth> ideally everything would also already be built 18:59:19 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: and no, I had a company going for several hours and just decided it wasnt fun to play it anymore 19:00:04 <andythenorth> someone should make a better ship grf 19:00:05 <Alberth> Diablo-D3: it is ok to stop playing before reaching the year 5000000 19:00:07 <andythenorth> FISH sucks 19:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth, Rubidium: wrt. 2-tile rivers, how about counting the number of merges: 0-1 merge: 1 tile, 2-4 merges: 2 tiles, 5-8 merges: 3 tiles, etc. 19:00:47 <andythenorth> that's an interesting idea 19:00:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: did already think about that during development, but deemed it too tricky to implement 19:01:00 * andythenorth was wondering how to do deltas 19:01:05 <andythenorth> and estuaries and such 19:03:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrt the date hack .... I wonder how long it would take to be noticed if we shipped it? :P 19:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you and whose commit rights? 19:04:42 <andythenorth> someone with a sense of adventure + humour? 19:05:36 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:05:48 <Alberth> good luck finding such a dev :D 19:06:33 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-223-183-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 19:07:38 <Alberth> such things are a good way to ensure that was your last commit 19:08:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it would take less than 24h to be noticed 19:08:26 <planetmaker> I'm quite convinced of that 19:08:42 <peter1138> what's the largest giant screenshot anyone's ever created? 19:09:01 <peter1138> filesize :p 19:09:05 <__ln__> @seen anyone 19:09:05 <DorpsGek> __ln__: anyone was last seen in #openttd 36 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <anyone> hi 19:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: open-able in any program? :) 19:09:46 <SpComb> I've done bigger than 512x512, but not for any actual game 19:11:31 * andythenorth needs more hp-per-ton 19:11:51 <andythenorth> my z-trains are too slow 19:12:02 <SpComb> (as in, and actually used those giant screenshot .pngs for something) 19:14:58 <SpComb> don't think it broke 2GB, though 19:21:57 <MNIM> Peter: I accidentally did that once on a big map. 19:22:12 <MNIM> I didn't have enough ram to open it afterwards. 19:22:35 <MNIM> sadly, it got lost in a linux reinstall, but I think it was bigger than 2GB 19:26:33 <andythenorth> why do I always have so many ships? 19:26:58 <planetmaker> nice to look at? 19:27:08 <Alberth> lots of water in the map? 19:27:17 <Alberth> ships are too slow? 19:27:19 <planetmaker> I guess if money was no issue for me, I might be on a ship right now ;-) 19:27:20 <andythenorth> high capacity? 19:29:53 *** Xrufuian [~link@pool-98-119-100-133.lsanca.btas.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 19:30:26 <MNIM> yeah, high capacity does help 19:30:49 <MNIM> having several 800-soul ferries to relieve your rail network traffic between to big cities is nice 19:32:42 <Hinrik> how do I know which aircraft require large airports to avoid crashes? 19:33:15 <Hinrik> I started in 1970 and I can build a bunch of huge aircraft but only a small airport 19:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Hinrik: look at the list on the wiki 19:33:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Hinrik: or use a newgrf that tells you 19:33:45 <Hinrik> ok 19:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Hinrik: larger airports are available at the dropdown list 19:34:13 <Hinrik> nope 19:34:24 <Hinrik> Small is available, and Commuter is greyed out 19:34:32 <Hinrik> ah yeah 19:34:35 <Hinrik> I see what you mean 19:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> City is the first large one 19:36:03 <planetmaker> is the ttdpatch.grf anywhere in a repo or can be built from one? 19:36:45 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:47 <Rubidium> planetmaker: if tt-forums.net is a repo, then yes ;( 19:36:58 <planetmaker> :-P 19:37:20 <planetmaker> well, I expected it to be part of the ttdpatch repo. But I don't find it there. 19:44:37 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:49:52 <andythenorth> if I configure hotkeys, will they persist stably? 19:50:02 <andythenorth> as the rest of my config doesn't ;) 19:50:14 <planetmaker> the config persists 19:50:24 <planetmaker> you just only should configure it when openttd is not running 19:50:37 <planetmaker> as it'll overwrite changes when you close it 19:50:42 <andythenorth> hotkeys? Or everything? 19:51:05 <planetmaker> I'd not count on the hotkey file not being re-written 19:51:22 <planetmaker> (even when it currently probably wouldn't make sense) 19:51:22 <andythenorth> k 19:52:04 <planetmaker> but when ingame config of keys will be added, it would behave the same as the openttd.cfg: rewrite upon exit with currently active settings 19:52:14 <planetmaker> thus: it's very persistent, both files 19:55:10 <appe> hm, something is wrong here 19:55:19 <appe> im going to make a long track cross a 2048 map 19:56:27 <appe> i create a new view window in the right corner. i then move my main view to the left corner. if i use the magic bulldozer from inside the view window, i can in one click bulldoze a line trough the whole map 19:56:37 <appe> though, it only seems to work ..from time to time. 19:57:14 *** bandersnatch [bandersnat@cs27010082.pp.htv.fi] has quit [] 19:57:45 <appe> http://gyazo.com/f2d061796c233fe010da05b9d87e759d.png 19:57:50 <appe> you have any idea why? 19:57:57 <appe> i made sure i had the magic bulldozer. 19:58:16 <planetmaker> terraforming limit enabled? 19:58:31 <Alberth> wouldn't a flat map not be much easier? 19:59:04 <Alberth> or a less insane length be much more fun? 19:59:17 <planetmaker> learnt to use ctrl+s :-) 20:00:59 <appe> Alberth: it's a flat map. 20:01:06 <appe> ctrl+s? :) 20:01:23 <appe> im trying to bulldoze my way trough the cities and industries 20:01:26 * planetmaker wonders though... the existing 12 tracks are not used. Does it really need more? 20:01:43 <appe> hehe 20:01:57 * andythenorth needs more river ships now 20:01:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.163.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:59 <andythenorth> and bigger ones 20:03:12 <planetmaker> bah, did the author not anticipate rivers and ocean and river speed fraction? 20:03:20 <planetmaker> We should bash him then... 20:03:39 <planetmaker> with pink cotton balls 20:04:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.163.65] has joined #openttd 20:06:12 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:20:22 <Terkhen> :P 20:22:52 <andythenorth> :P 20:23:20 *** hanf^ [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-3.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 20:24:47 *** Fuco_ [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd 20:26:07 *** Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:03 <andythenorth> bed time 20:28:05 <andythenorth> good night 20:28:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:30:10 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-241-76-3.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:38:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: terkhen * r22941 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix: Calculate the size of the start/stop vehicle button correctly. 20:44:12 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:34 *** zachanima [~zach@0x52b41806.static.bcbnet.dk] has joined #openttd 20:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> 83% 20:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: you sure it's wise to add a magic number? 20:49:41 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: grep for SetMinimalTextLines(1, WD_FRAMERECT_TOP + WD_FRAMERECT_BOTTOM + 2) 20:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: all the more reason :) 20:50:03 <Terkhen> it should be fixed somehow, but for fixes I prefer to do a small patch that can be backported more easily 20:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> also it's probably code smell that the function is called so often with the same arguments 20:52:39 <Terkhen> yes, there is no disagreement there :) 20:54:46 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:56:56 <planetmaker> the quick and back-portable and the lengthy and proper way ;-) 20:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i understood that now 21:09:05 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 21:19:02 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has joined #openttd 21:19:54 *** bokalHdC [~bokal@p57B7E70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:08 <bokalHdC> Hi! 21:22:02 <bokalHdC> I tried recently OpenTTD on the HP Touchpad, and if the person responsible for the port is in the room, I'd like to thank him/her 21:22:09 <bokalHdC> it's awesome! 21:23:07 <bokalHdC> I lost a few days of productivity, but it was great :) 21:23:58 <appe> touchpad? fantastic. 21:24:07 <appe> openttd on ipad would be nice. 21:24:56 <bokalHdC> it is true fantastic, yes! 21:25:03 <bokalHdC> truely 21:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: that's not in our power 21:25:33 <bokalHdC> apple doesn't like free software much 21:26:00 <Terkhen> what OS does that use? 21:26:34 <bokalHdC> webos, which is... a linux flavor 21:27:05 <bokalHdC> most of the OS is free software 21:27:34 <bokalHdC> linux, pulseaudio, gstreamer, ipkg, and much more 21:27:53 <bokalHdC> only the UI part is closed source 21:28:31 <bokalHdC> the only thing not working with the port yet, is the network. 21:28:44 <bokalHdC> it means no multiplayer, of course 21:28:51 <bokalHdC> but also no AI 21:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> bokalHdC: if you actually encounter the person doing the port, please ask him to report back so we can include his changes into the main repository 21:29:08 <bokalHdC> because I can't download them 21:29:34 <bokalHdC> oh, ok... you were not aware of it? 21:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> you can add AIs manually, but it's kinda cumbersome 21:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> get the files from binaries.openttd.org/bananas 21:30:26 <bokalHdC> Eddi|zuHause, thanks! 21:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> bokalHdC: we heard of the port, but no details wrt what actually changed 21:30:49 <bokalHdC> ok! 21:32:07 <bokalHdC> any AI that you recommend? 21:34:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:03 <bokalHdC> the developper is omoco http://omoco.de 21:38:45 <Terkhen> good night 21:38:56 <bokalHdC> good night 21:40:04 <Hinrik> is there no way to merge two non-AI companies in multiplayer? 21:40:27 <Hinrik> e.g. if we decide we want to do co-op 21:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> nope 21:47:43 <bokalHdC> Eddi|zuHause, I just wrote the author of the port asking to report back. 21:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause> why does "official secrets act" sound like an oxymoron? 21:57:10 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-235-224.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:13 <__ln__> http://www.thelocal.de/society/20110917-37641.html 22:00:24 <Wolf01> 'night 22:00:31 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.233.237.150] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:11:35 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:14:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.255.47.217] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:20:22 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:31 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:03 <bokalHdC> good night 22:37:08 *** bokalHdC [~bokal@p57B7E70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:45:09 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:39 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.146] has joined #openttd 22:53:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08faf4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:55:59 *** erik1984 [~erik1984@vhe-490300.sshn.net] has left #openttd [] 23:03:38 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 23:08:23 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@027af850.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:08:49 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-72-134.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B537.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0afbc7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:25 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 23:20:12 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:59 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-018-252.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 23:41:47 *** douknoukem [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-115-20.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:54:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "Fukushima is proof that nuclear engergy is secure" 23:56:03 *** Diablo-D3 [~diablo@pool-70-16-75-198.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]