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00:00:01 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> how come there are so many first-post people on the forum today? 00:33:38 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:34:03 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.237] has joined #openttd 00:34:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 00:38:22 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 00:48:32 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:03 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:52:20 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 00:56:00 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:58:37 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:507d:e9e9:4ad3:b48b] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:04:32 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has joined #openttd 01:07:43 *** Danio [Danio@83.101.65.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:53 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 01:20:48 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:44:46 *** Monarch1st [~here@76-227-101-200.lightspeed.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:45:37 <Monarch1st> i've got a couple questions if there's anyone here... 01:46:59 <Monarch1st> after loading, a red box pops up that says enable multiple newgrf engine sets - how do i do that? 01:48:01 <Monarch1st> and 2 - are there any engine sets, i guess, that extend further back? i'd like to play with engines around the time of the transcontinental railroad 01:48:10 <Monarch1st> (or even further really but this for now) 01:49:29 <Monarch1st> (say 1830 for the first intercity rail line) 02:11:06 <lugo> there's an advanced setting for that 02:11:55 <lugo> NARS2 starts about 1850 or so 02:18:35 <Monarch1st> (ah, someone!) 02:18:48 <Monarch1st> nars2 - is it in newgrf? i dont remember seeing it 02:20:03 <lugo> yep should be avaulable through online content 02:21:30 <Monarch1st> i dont see a nars2 - is the name expanded in the list perhaps? 02:22:51 <Monarch1st> ah ha - i see a nars1, and a narvw 02:23:41 <Monarch1st> and its probably going to ask to 'enable multiple engine sets' 02:23:43 <Monarch1st> how do i do that? 02:24:00 <lugo> there's an advanced setting for that 02:24:21 <Monarch1st> where is it found? 02:25:08 <lugo> can't remember, there are so many.. 02:26:02 <Monarch1st> yeah, i know. hundreds at least 02:32:38 <Monarch1st> ahhh...that might be it 02:33:17 <Monarch1st> nother question if you dont mind - how do you add newgrf files to a savegame? 02:34:39 <Monarch1st> it doesnt look like you can, at least its not obvious in the newgrf settings 02:35:22 <Monarch1st> but i like this map. is there a way to find the seed so i can generate it again? 02:53:09 *** Azdin [~chatzilla@fw2.yeg.alentus.net] has joined #openttd 02:53:14 <Azdin> Hi 02:53:21 <Azdin> Anyone running any new servers? 02:59:33 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:00:06 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 03:02:40 <Monarch1st> i dont think theres anyone else here, at least not that reads it. 03:02:48 <Monarch1st> and i dont know much about new servers 03:02:57 <Monarch1st> do you know some about the newgrf files? 03:04:47 <Monarch1st> let me ask just in case... 03:05:02 <Monarch1st> can do you add newgrf files to a savegame? 03:05:06 <Monarch1st> it doesnt look like you can, at least its not obvious in the newgrf settings 03:05:12 <Monarch1st> but i like this map. is there a way to find the seed so i can generate it again? 03:09:52 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 03:16:58 *** Beengalas [~Beengalas@nl105-254-205.student.uu.se] has quit [] 03:17:12 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8c49b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:35:25 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:36:52 <supermop> hello 03:40:24 *** Azdin [~chatzilla@fw2.yeg.alentus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110902133214]] 03:49:12 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:59:25 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:13 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B728C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:22 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75D10.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:06:08 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 05:25:03 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 05:50:02 *** liveinnet [72245a4d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:50:36 *** Monarch1st [~here@76-227-101-200.lightspeed.wchtks.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:50:43 *** liveinnet [72245a4d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 06:29:13 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 06:47:10 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 06:48:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has joined #openttd 06:49:35 <peter1138> moin 06:58:46 <planetmaker> moin 07:02:45 <PeanutHorst> moin 07:04:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:08:32 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:14:27 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:41 <LordAro> moin 07:22:49 <andythenorth> hola 07:23:23 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-222-142-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:39 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 08:05:20 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 08:05:56 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 08:07:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:14:01 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-180-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:34 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:34:58 *** jo2k [~Jonny@dslb-094-222-142-225.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jo2k] 08:35:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:46:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:55:45 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:05:48 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:05:51 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:23:40 <Terkhen> good morning 09:32:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:35:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:36:48 <Alberth> andy! welcome! 09:37:01 <planetmaker> oh, and hello Terkhen 09:37:20 <andythenorth> bonjour 09:37:30 <planetmaker> bonjour, andythenorth 09:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... how do i do randomness... 09:38:08 <planetmaker> currently with a random_switch(... ) 09:39:03 <planetmaker> we're somewhat discussing to replace that by a normal switch with variable 5F instead to keep things more in line 09:45:47 <planetmaker> hm... all those dependencies... conditional whether nml is there or gimp is there... hilarious for opengfx 09:46:08 <planetmaker> I should introduce a configure script possibly 09:46:33 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 09:50:09 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:57:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:59:47 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:01:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 10:11:41 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:13:15 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:23:16 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 10:39:51 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:47:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f71bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:50:48 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd 11:04:48 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d5d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:41 *** Korenn [~kvirc@93-125-161-18.dsl.alice.nl] has joined #openttd 11:07:56 <Korenn> hullo 11:08:22 <Korenn> any devs / contributors around who could help point me in the right direction? 11:08:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that way -> 11:08:38 <Korenn> I'm writing a patch that adds some town vars, and now I want it to gracefully load older save games 11:08:51 <Korenn> but I have no clue where in the code that stuff is 11:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> in the saveload/ directory 11:09:23 <Korenn> I've got it saving / loading in the sl_town bit 11:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> first step is to bump SAVEGAME_VERSION 11:09:26 <Korenn> but not reading old stuff 11:09:32 <Korenn> that's already done ;) 11:10:13 <Korenn> sorry, town_sl.cpp* 11:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> in the sl_town bit you likely have min version and stuff 11:10:18 <frosch123> the SL_COND_xxx macros take a minimum and maximum savegame version which contain the data 11:10:32 <Korenn> frosch123: I have that for the patch setting itself 11:10:43 <Korenn> does that also work for variables in the Town struct? 11:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Korenn: no, that's independent 11:10:55 <Korenn> thought as much 11:10:56 <frosch123> if you need to initialise or convert stuff from old savegames, add that to AfterLoad() 11:11:01 <Alberth> src/saveload/afterload.cpp, function AfterLoadGame() <-- here you adapt for the new savegame version 11:11:22 <Korenn> but how does it handle loading the old version before? 11:11:22 <frosch123> if you do nothing, everything is zero by default 11:11:39 <Korenn> the old version doesn't match the expected chunk setup 11:11:55 <Alberth> the version is in the file 11:12:00 <Korenn> yes, I got that ;) 11:12:12 <Alberth> so it loads the old file with SLD_COND macros that state what's in it 11:12:27 <Korenn> hmmm ok 11:12:29 <b_jonas> how do you figure out how much a factory or refinery really produces? their production is so variable and you only get to see one month's production in the window. 11:12:41 <b_jonas> do you just check it out in several months? 11:12:56 <Alberth> Korenn: then it calls AfterLoad() where you can change the data to the new version 11:13:20 <Korenn> right. and since zero is fine for my default, I wouldn't need any actual stuff there 11:13:25 <planetmaker> b_jonas: it really produced that in the last month what it tells you. 11:13:33 <frosch123> b_jonas: build some vehicles, then check the industry directory every few months 11:13:34 <Korenn> I'll go look at the SLD_COND stuff then :) 11:13:35 <Korenn> thanks 11:13:38 <frosch123> sort it by "percent transported" 11:13:40 <planetmaker> so no need to figure out anything... 11:14:25 <b_jonas> planetmaker: yep, but as I bring input to it from far, production varies a lot 11:14:27 <planetmaker> but yes, you can look each month 11:14:50 <Alberth> Korenn: it may be useful to look at a changeset where the savegame version got changed as an example 11:15:07 <Korenn> right, I'll go look at the svn logs :) 11:15:16 <Korenn> smart thinking, that 11:15:25 *** Beengalas [~Beengalas@nl105-254-205.student.uu.se] has joined #openttd 11:16:14 <Alberth> Korenn: saveload.cpp has a looooong list of revision numbers :p 11:16:29 <Korenn> yeah, I saw that. 11:17:07 <Korenn> hm, the last one is for the rivers, but that only bumps the savegame version without changing any other saveload stuff. that seems wrong :P 11:18:04 <b_jonas> Korenn: perhaps some new river tiles were added 11:18:58 <Alberth> Korenn: settings.ini was changed 11:19:09 <Korenn> oh right 11:19:15 <Korenn> and that generates a file 11:19:20 <Korenn> that takes some getting used to :) 11:20:53 <Alberth> you normally modify the .exe directly? 11:23:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why does that take getting used to? i do that all the time :p 11:24:13 <Korenn> Alberth: oh, haha :P 11:25:21 <Korenn> generating source files isn't exactly the most common of programming practices. So the .ini is not yet on my radar as 'code' :) 11:25:31 *** mib_k7qw7i [4e692c9c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:25:34 <mib_k7qw7i> Earn free prizes and giftcards at: http://bit.ly/q4Nz5Q http://bit.ly/pv8sbg 11:25:38 <frosch123> @calc 65000 / 22 11:25:38 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2954.54545455 11:25:54 <Korenn> w00t works 11:26:01 <Korenn> thanks Alberth, Eddi|zuHause! 11:26:09 <frosch123> hmm, in 2954 years we run out of savegame versions :s 11:26:22 <Alberth> oh dear 11:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i thought there was a limit of 256 in the code? 11:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (not sure why that is there) 11:27:19 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-191-238.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:50 <planetmaker> @kbar mib_k7qw7i 11:27:56 <planetmaker> @kban mib_k7qw7i 11:27:58 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!4e692c9c@ircip2.mibbit.com] by DorpsGek 11:27:58 *** mib_k7qw7i was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [planetmaker] 11:28:09 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r23013 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Doc: Add a note about the savegame version used in the 1.1 branch. 11:28:55 <frosch123> though we are behind schedule for 1.1.2 :p 11:29:07 <planetmaker> 1.2.0? 11:29:13 <frosch123> yeah 11:29:37 <frosch123> only 3 savegame bumps in 1.2.0 so far, while there should be 22 till branching 11:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd is clearly dying 11:30:47 <Alberth> @calc 22*6/3 11:30:47 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 44 11:31:00 <Alberth> next branch in 44 months :) 11:31:53 <frosch123> @calc 22*8/3 11:31:53 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 58.6666666667 11:31:58 <frosch123> branching was in february :) 11:32:18 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I have that idea about the forums, it seems very quiet there, or is it just me? 11:32:27 <frosch123> @calc 19*8/3 11:32:27 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 50.6666666667 11:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> we need a solution for the 99km/h problem 11:33:21 <planetmaker> it's usually around now the most quiet time of the year iirc, Alberth 11:33:30 <planetmaker> semester just starts / started ;-) 11:33:51 <Alberth> oh, everybody is hard at work :) 11:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: there were a bunch of new people in the forum over the past few days 11:34:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: Round(speed/5) * 5 11:34:16 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: don't display the speed 11:34:23 <Alberth> it makes no sense anyway 11:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it's still displayed in purchase menu and stuff 11:34:54 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: also Round(power/50) * 50 11:35:10 * Alberth distributes black 'censored' stickers to all 11:35:46 <planetmaker> hm... how nice. A spammer complained in his spam message about not being able to login into the grfspec wiki 11:35:50 <planetmaker> I guess: "good so" 11:36:26 <frosch123> [13:30] <Eddi|zuHause> openttd is clearly dying <- otoh we are following the trend. democracy is also dying 11:36:26 <Alberth> I think he copied some text from another message, eg PaulC 11:36:55 <planetmaker> yes, clearly 11:37:28 *** LordAro_ [~lordaro@host86-149-29-166.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:37:46 <Alberth> moin 11:38:00 <planetmaker> openttd dies... too many developers programme (new)grfs ;-) 11:43:37 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host217-43-108-215.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:44:38 <Korenn> my patch is almost done, and I'm trying to get it to the right code standard. should be interesting enough to poke some people alive ;) 11:44:57 <Korenn> even if it's only to yell 'god no that's awfully coded' 11:57:20 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:06:04 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 12:10:40 <andythenorth> Alberth: openttd is clearly dying 12:10:52 <andythenorth> that will always be true, until there's no-one around to say it 12:11:11 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 12:11:29 <Alberth> someone will be here :) 12:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause> in analogy to the "the world ends" prophecies? 12:11:41 <andythenorth> probably just DorpsGek 12:11:59 <andythenorth> just that the destiny of all things that live is to die 12:12:07 <andythenorth> 'dying from the day they were born' etc 12:12:33 <andythenorth> every commit is one commit closer to the final commit 12:12:57 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:13:00 <planetmaker> and thus world ends. Amen. 12:14:11 <Alberth> what about pre-birth commits? 12:14:34 <SpComb> abortion 12:14:41 <andythenorth> so, is ottd suffering the same forums problem as mature newgrfs? 12:14:56 <andythenorth> i.e. it's pretty good, there's no big bugs, and no big new projects to discuss? 12:15:03 <andythenorth> so there's no discussion 12:15:16 <andythenorth> and most of the issues/ideas that come up can be filed under 'same old crap' 12:15:53 *** LordAro_ is now known as LordAro 12:16:09 <valhallasw> http://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features is not exactly empty 12:17:15 <valhallasw> and probably not really up to date, either 12:18:14 <Alberth> and contains a lot of stuff that is out of scope of the goal, or useless 12:19:09 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-78-146-191-238.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:20:22 <andythenorth> are there any goals big at the moment really? 12:20:32 <andythenorth> looks like some quiet work is being done on grf-topia 12:20:40 <andythenorth> YACD looks promising, but is quiet 12:20:47 <planetmaker> yeah :-( 12:20:55 <planetmaker> and killed cargodist 12:20:57 <andythenorth> there's no other big projects in play 12:21:03 <andythenorth> nml is a big project 12:21:17 <Alberth> grf airports is also quiet 12:21:20 <planetmaker> there's scenario re-write, there's more heightlevels 12:21:34 <planetmaker> airports 12:21:46 <planetmaker> indeed 12:22:01 <Ammler> hehe, maybe you can convince fonso to maintain yacd :-) 12:22:12 <andythenorth> airports is stuck entirely isn't it? 12:22:16 <planetmaker> Alberth: I hoped for your patch with airports ;-) 12:22:20 <andythenorth> airports / newstations 12:22:28 <andythenorth> RoadTypes is not happening 12:22:32 <andythenorth> rv-wagons same 12:22:39 <planetmaker> there are the ideas of roadtypes, bridgeheads, tunnel heads 12:22:45 <planetmaker> town control 12:22:52 <andythenorth> it's why I mentioned auto-updater yesterday 12:22:54 <Ammler> region based newgrf 12:23:10 <andythenorth> bananas isn't broken enough for anyone to bother fixing it 12:23:13 <Alberth> planetmaker: I had no big plans, mostly just small steps in the right direction 12:23:17 <planetmaker> all-climate. "new maptype" 12:23:33 <planetmaker> goal scripts 12:23:40 <Alberth> planetmaker: such as removal of the wait loop 12:23:45 <planetmaker> zoom-levels 12:24:05 <Ammler> andythenorth: did you really try to work on the current bananas or did tb speak you away from that? 12:24:07 <planetmaker> I see :-) - but what would an airport do w/o holding pattern? 12:24:13 <planetmaker> would planes stop and queue? 12:24:28 <Alberth> planetmaker: it has one, but not in the aitrport state machine 12:24:38 <Ammler> because bananas from scratch seems not happen, but it really needs improvments 12:24:45 <Terkhen> bbl 12:24:54 <Alberth> so you can have aircrafts holding while you change the airport 12:25:21 <planetmaker> ah. That'd be useful 12:25:56 <planetmaker> yeah... bananas is another site which could need work 12:26:06 <planetmaker> many things to take care of :-) 12:26:22 <Alberth> translations for all newgrfs 12:26:36 <planetmaker> yes, also a nice project 12:26:44 <planetmaker> readme from ingame :-) 12:26:54 <Alberth> we should make #openttd-suggestions :p 12:27:18 <planetmaker> well. But maybe we should make a "wanted features" list 12:27:29 <Alberth> did you try the readme patch? I find the text-layout very bad 12:27:39 <planetmaker> Thus if someone feels like "dunno what I shall do" s/he could dive into it 12:27:40 <Alberth> no idea how to fix it 12:27:43 <peter1138> planetmaker, we used to have one of those 12:27:53 <peter1138> planetmaker, it was called the "roadmap" that people used to randomly update 12:27:56 <planetmaker> peter1138: yes... but seems abandoned. where? 12:29:29 <peter1138> dunno, i was being silly. it being a roadmap with unplanned features on it... 12:30:19 <LordAro> [13:27:29] <@Alberth> did you try the readme patch? I find the text-layout very bad <-- i think its just a case of "you write your readme to support ottd" not the other way round 12:30:26 <LordAro> hi, btw :) 12:31:30 <Alberth> sure, but how do you make a list of features then? 12:31:30 <Alberth> - foo 12:31:30 <Alberth> blah die blah 12:31:30 <Alberth> is already broken 12:32:21 <planetmaker> it probably shouldn't use a proportional font in that case. 12:32:26 <planetmaker> Which is a big problem :-) 12:34:49 <Alberth> yeah, either a mono-spaced font, or some tabbing-like indenting to text-columns. Neither is exactly simple 12:38:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c75:f72b:61bb:525] has joined #openttd 12:38:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:38:34 <Alberth> the latter would mean you store the starting offset + column-number of each word. At the next line, check whether it starts with spaces, such that its first non-space is also the start of a word at the line above. Then use that starting offset 12:38:38 <Alberth> hi glx 12:39:16 <planetmaker> hi glx 12:39:30 <planetmaker> Alberth: yes, neither is really simple :-( 12:40:39 * Alberth ponders doing some detection beforehand to simplify it 12:46:42 <b_jonas> or just have the GRF authors link to other files from the Readme, say html files people will view with a browser. 12:46:43 <Eddi|zuHause> use SET_X for alignment! :p 12:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> question: shall i attempt cargo-specific graphics and cargo-specific recolouring now, or shall i attempt slicing long vehicle sprites into shorter sections (to avoid glitches)? 12:50:32 <planetmaker> b_jonas: and you give us the code to reliably call the user's preferred browser on all supported OS? 12:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> problem is we have no cargo specific graphics to play with yet 12:51:12 <planetmaker> the first thing is relatively simple, the 2nd probably more effort 12:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> syntax might be something like: "cargo:(COAL:recolour(bulk,black),SAND|GRAIN:recolour(bulk,yellow))" 12:57:42 <planetmaker> what's the "bulk" in that list? 12:57:46 <planetmaker> it seems not needed 12:57:49 <LordAro> Alberth/planetmaker: i haven't noticed too much of an issue when testing myself 12:58:04 <TWerkhoven> bulk cargo? 12:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "bulk" is a graphics file name, like "A_O_5_bulk.png" 13:00:06 <planetmaker> ah, ok 13:05:14 <andythenorth> Ammler: I started thinking about bananas, but without a collaborator who is good at web backends...I'd be out of my depth 13:06:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: here's how I made a feature list :D 13:06:41 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46689&hilit=ponies 13:07:06 <andythenorth> I should update that 13:07:09 <andythenorth> some of it is done 13:08:08 <V453000> is there anything special in how is the total train weight counted? When I read what the depot information on wagons/engines says, and count it, it ends up being totally different from the "real" weight when I actually build the train and see the info of the train on total weight 13:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: articulated parts? 13:09:08 <V453000> no, normal wagons 13:09:17 <planetmaker> loaded? 13:09:29 <V453000> both unloaded and loaded, the counted values dont match 13:09:31 <planetmaker> callback for different weight with different cargo? 13:09:58 <planetmaker> or different weight when it's Friday 13 and the engine coloured red? 13:10:19 <planetmaker> except when it's a leap year, of course ;-) 13:10:21 <andythenorth> weight multiplier? 13:10:44 <andythenorth> who actually did advanced action 2 tile layouts? 13:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> or when Halloween and Friday, 13th fall on the same day. In April. 13:11:47 <V453000> for example, I have a gondola which says it is empty (22t) and a centerbeam wagon which also says 22t. When I made a train consisting of two BR182s from DB set and added 8 wagons to each, the gondola one has 368t in total, the centerbeam has 346 in total 13:12:16 <planetmaker> @calc 368/8 13:12:16 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 46 13:12:29 <V453000> 368-170 13:12:32 <V453000> 170 are engines 13:12:48 <planetmaker> @calc 198/8 13:12:48 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 24.75 13:13:18 <peter1138> hmm, don't even have the dbset around any more :( 13:13:39 * peter1138 mumbles about bananas 13:13:39 <V453000> @calc (346-170)/8 13:13:39 <DorpsGek> V453000: 22 13:13:47 <V453000> hm, one of them is correct 13:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> "Paniertes Schweineschnitzel aus Putenbrust" 13:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause> er... :p 13:14:01 <planetmaker> lool 13:14:28 <V453000> mit bier? 13:14:47 <planetmaker> in Bierteig 13:17:31 <V453000> hm :( the errors happen with various train sets 13:18:07 <planetmaker> purchase list info can differ from bought vehicle 13:18:17 <planetmaker> it's up to the newgrf to do the right thing 13:18:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:46 <peter1138> don't think dbset does anything like that 13:19:00 <peter1138> it's pre-cb36 13:19:34 <V453000> planetmaker: so basically the depot values do not have to match with running train? 13:19:50 <peter1138> new vehicle values, no 13:20:07 <planetmaker> peter1138: couldn't a train alter it there via cb36 either? 13:20:46 <peter1138> hmm? 13:20:51 <andythenorth> a suggestion that died: fields around industries 13:21:04 <andythenorth> maybe via new objects, 'planted' by industry 13:21:08 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! newfields! 13:21:54 <andythenorth> newsmoke 13:21:56 <Korenn> oooo, storage fields around factories 13:22:21 <andythenorth> smoke for ships is stuck in limbo right now 13:22:34 <andythenorth> it's slightly done, but mostly unusable 13:22:35 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I'd not consider the idea died. But it's an idea come too early 13:23:13 <planetmaker> which form my pov is a difference :-) 13:24:47 <andythenorth> something else: vehicles in vehicles 13:26:00 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:26:25 <andythenorth> cargo containers 13:26:37 <andythenorth> lots of fun things to do :) 13:26:43 <andythenorth> so is it dying? 13:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Born_Acorn! newfields! <-- what happenet to him, actually? 13:27:53 <Eddi|zuHause> he never says anything anymore 13:28:32 *** APTX_ [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:31:26 <andythenorth> hmm 13:32:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: FIRS is waiting on a new stable ottd before we can release 0.7.x ? 13:34:10 <planetmaker> probably 13:34:40 <planetmaker> doesn't mean we can't do anything... 13:35:00 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-68-209.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:38 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 13:36:55 <supermop> what's new in firs? 13:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> magic 13:37:32 <Korenn> magical kingdom climate? transport wizards and treasure? ;) 13:39:00 <supermop> i am totally unaware of most new features as i am still playing chills patch pack 13:39:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-230-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:39:49 <Korenn> supermop: isn't that pretty outdated by now? 13:39:52 <Korenn> does it have rivers? 13:41:29 <supermop> not unless you draw them yourself 13:41:53 <supermop> and it cannot load a save from nightly, so no real way to get them 13:42:16 <Korenn> ofcourse it can't - no support whatsoever, so that wouldn't make sense :) 13:42:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B131.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:43:05 <andythenorth> supermop: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/0.7.0-beta1/changelog.txt 13:43:49 <Elukka> go finish firs, all of it, so i can make that scenario i dream of making with it :p 13:44:12 <andythenorth> my motivation to work on it is currently low 13:44:21 <andythenorth> I'm not demoralised, just not inspired 13:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: now's the right time to work on economies 13:44:39 <andythenorth> could be 13:45:00 <andythenorth> because it's now in nml, I'm much less inclined to work on the code 13:45:07 <V453000> hm this is sad :( the vehicle purchase infos tend to be so wrong in so many cases 13:45:09 <andythenorth> I'm kind of limited to drawing these days 13:45:37 <supermop> dont like nml? 13:45:46 <andythenorth> nml is great 13:46:05 <andythenorth> but I don't know nml, and I no longer know the FIRS codebase either 13:46:24 <andythenorth> so I'm trying to work on a massive codebase, that doesn't work like it did for the last 2 years, in a language I don't know 13:46:46 <LordAro> why did you convert it then? 13:47:13 <andythenorth> because grfcodec doesn't support advanced tile layouts 13:47:29 <andythenorth> and to gain maintainability 13:48:02 <andythenorth> it was the correct thing to do, but has the side effect that I no longer develop code for FIRS 13:48:22 <andythenorth> so FIRS development depends on the goodwill of other people 13:48:36 <Korenn> andythenorth: but NML is so much easier than NFO ;) 13:48:41 <andythenorth> not really 13:48:54 <andythenorth> it's considerably more complex in my opinion 13:49:11 <Korenn> O.o 13:49:14 <planetmaker> no, not really 13:49:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.181.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:49:23 <andythenorth> it's a more familiar syntax compared to other high level languages, but it's a lot less explicit 13:49:32 <planetmaker> andythenorth: your problem is you jump from highly-templated nfo to even more-highly templated NML 13:49:34 <planetmaker> and compare that 13:50:04 <andythenorth> +1 13:50:13 <planetmaker> half of firs was and is meta-programmed 13:50:43 <planetmaker> and the complexity of the templates firs uses now is considerably higher than before 13:50:53 <andythenorth> it wasn't in a good state before nml either. It's just that the meta-programming was mostly mine 13:51:01 <planetmaker> yes 13:51:03 <supermop> a 'yard' rail type would be neat 13:51:05 <andythenorth> or it was explained to me by those who did it 13:51:35 <andythenorth> but still I find nml magical 13:51:41 <supermop> maybe ill work on that 13:51:59 <andythenorth> too many years of nfo 13:52:01 <planetmaker> "any sufficiently sophisticated technology is not distinguishable from magic" ;-) 13:52:35 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarke%27s_three_laws 13:52:37 <andythenorth> +1 to that as well 13:52:45 <Elukka> firs is the best damn thing to happen to ottd for a good while to me 13:53:30 <planetmaker> programming it can eat loads of time, too ;-) 13:53:40 <planetmaker> I guess I spent a few weeks on the conversion 13:53:51 <planetmaker> and re-templating 13:54:05 <planetmaker> so far 13:56:07 <andythenorth> maybe FIRS is just too big 13:56:15 <planetmaker> I don't think so 13:56:21 <V453000> VECTORS! :D 13:56:30 <planetmaker> it's just not a project to be done in a month or a few months 13:56:55 <andythenorth> the amount of work remaining is overwhelming, and I'd like to get some of it gone 13:57:19 <planetmaker> then stop to care about stable openttd 13:57:31 <andythenorth> oh, wrt release you mean? 13:57:35 <andythenorth> I'm not bothered about that 13:57:41 <andythenorth> we don't need to release currently 13:58:01 <planetmaker> it's not about 'need' or 'should'. It's about the psychological impatch. On you ;-) 13:58:01 <andythenorth> we can release 0.8.0 or such to bananas when stable has caught up 13:58:16 <planetmaker> *impact 13:58:23 <andythenorth> or we can implement what you said in your recent ticket 13:58:47 <V453000> is it compatible with trunk? 13:58:51 <andythenorth> yes 13:58:55 <V453000> why wait then :( 13:59:07 <andythenorth> because then stable users won't be able to download FIRS 13:59:08 <planetmaker> V453000: you can download always the nightly 13:59:19 <planetmaker> that's how much was done 13:59:21 <andythenorth> there is a FIRS release, it's just bundle server only 13:59:25 <andythenorth> for 0.7.0 13:59:26 <V453000> I know 13:59:48 <andythenorth> changing the grfID is usually Just A Bad Idea 13:59:56 <V453000> but we could for example use it on public server without making mess with adding extra newgrfs etc 13:59:59 <planetmaker> V453000: it's a bananas restriction: only one version is active concurrently 14:00:00 <V453000> ah I see 14:00:07 <V453000> well that sucks :( 14:00:10 <planetmaker> thus if put on bananas stable users have no firs anymore at all 14:00:13 <V453000> yeah 14:00:16 <V453000> :( 14:00:28 <andythenorth> then we lose FIRS users, or they think it has died 14:00:54 <V453000> or they download newer openttd :P 14:01:04 <andythenorth> so options include: don't worry about it for now; fix bananas; push for new stable ottd release; split versions + offer both on bananas 14:01:08 <V453000> and well ... how soon is a new stable arriving? :) 14:01:26 <V453000> yes :) 14:01:39 <planetmaker> after all a pikka-release cycle is not the worst either 14:01:40 <planetmaker> there's no-one who released more frequently new newgrf versions than you, andythenorth 14:02:07 <V453000> hehe 14:02:14 <planetmaker> currently I'm personally fine with "wait for stable ottd" 14:02:24 <V453000> I guess :) 14:02:27 <planetmaker> I need to gather some new drive to address some firs issues, too ;-) 14:02:39 <andythenorth> or we could do something else entirely for a bit 14:02:51 <andythenorth> I could add new steam trams to HEQS for example 14:02:54 <andythenorth> or start a truck set 14:02:58 <supermop> bush field new airports for supplies? 14:03:09 <andythenorth> truck set has valid side issues for ottd trunk 14:03:11 <frosch123> he, "wait for stable version" of the software is imo one of the reasons ttdp died :p 14:03:23 <andythenorth> 'auto-updater ftw' © 14:03:34 <andythenorth> stable software is dangerous 14:03:53 <andythenorth> one of my commercial products is stalling because we now have 'stable' user base 14:03:56 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:04:02 <Alberth> stay away from debian? 14:04:13 <andythenorth> we can't easily update + change deployments, so adding new features is getting stuck in molasses 14:04:30 <V453000> andythenorth: just tell me if you had an irresistible urge to draw some trains :P 14:04:38 <andythenorth> if I did, they'd go in HEQS :) 14:04:43 <V453000> :P 14:04:51 <andythenorth> other things we could do: fix ship smoke (smoke generally) 14:04:58 <andythenorth> then I'll implement that in FISH 14:05:21 <andythenorth> or I could just work on CHIPS, which is fun, I can mostly do on mine own, and has zero blockers :P 14:05:37 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you increasingly have "issues" like "I'd do, if..." 14:05:43 <andythenorth> he 14:05:47 <andythenorth> I used to just 'do' 14:05:49 <andythenorth> :) 14:05:52 <planetmaker> :-) 14:05:58 <andythenorth> I've 'done' 14:06:01 <andythenorth> quite a bit 14:06:49 <planetmaker> yeah. You explored thoroughly the boundaries of current newgrf capabilities in several areas 14:07:08 <planetmaker> the problem are now: the boundaries don't move that fast anymore as you can explore ;-) 14:07:14 <andythenorth> the truck set bothers me :P 14:07:18 <andythenorth> I want nice trucks 14:07:25 <andythenorth> but the current RV situation is poor 14:07:32 <andythenorth> at least for articulated vehicles 14:07:43 <andythenorth> and I think it's maybe resolvable 14:07:50 <planetmaker> "articulated" is something which could generally be generalized ;-) 14:08:00 <planetmaker> many issues are resolvable... 14:08:06 <andythenorth> possibly it's even fine with just a few small tweaks and some decisions to not care about others 14:08:47 <andythenorth> maybe I should write some spec for a set, with options :) 14:09:05 <planetmaker> meta-programme it like cets 14:09:06 <planetmaker> :-P 14:09:16 <planetmaker> one can hardly meta-programme more that that ;-) 14:09:40 <planetmaker> input: spreadsheet + a few python scripts. Output: grf 14:10:07 <andythenorth> hmm 14:10:16 <andythenorth> why would I be asked for a password on pull from here? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/ 14:10:27 * andythenorth explores hgrc 14:10:28 <planetmaker> you configured https 14:10:35 <planetmaker> instead of http 14:10:40 <planetmaker> for default 14:10:44 <andythenorth> yup 14:10:44 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yeah, it's pretty genious, isn't it? :) 14:11:00 <planetmaker> it's great stuff, yes :-) 14:11:11 <andythenorth> fixed 14:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if you find some time, read through the .py files, and tell me how self-documenting it is (or where it needs more comments) 14:17:35 <planetmaker> ok, will do. Remind me again, if I haven't done so within "proper" time 14:21:48 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-242-199.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 14:25:19 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:34:17 <Korenn> andythenorth: does FISH have introduction dates set yet? 14:34:47 <Pinkbeast> Last I looked it did, but still often absurd ones. 14:35:09 <andythenorth> Korenn: mostly not 14:35:22 <andythenorth> well more accurately - mostly absurd ones 14:35:50 <Korenn> I'm currently using a somewhat older version, and the fact that most ships are available from 1870 or earlier is a bit of a shame 14:35:54 <Korenn> no tech progression 14:35:58 <Pinkbeast> It struck me when a bunch of diesel ships appeared in 18something and I thought to myself "huh, when was the diesel engine invented?" :-) 14:36:50 <andythenorth> yeah 14:36:59 <andythenorth> why are there no steam ships? :P 14:37:10 <supermop> smoke? 14:37:15 <Pinkbeast> Sailing Ships has one or two in, does it not? 14:37:41 <andythenorth> FISH has one steam ship 14:38:03 <andythenorth> I'm not doing more at the moment because (1) I lost my collaborator (DanMacK) (2) no smoke 14:38:08 <andythenorth> meanwhile 14:38:10 <andythenorth> comments? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/entry/spec-bandit.txt 14:38:16 <andythenorth> specifically the ideas at the end 14:39:20 <supermop> looks good, still reading it 14:39:50 * V453000 likes No real world models. 14:40:16 <supermop> i like pushing for wagons 14:40:20 <supermop> les refitting 14:40:24 <supermop> *less 14:40:30 <Pinkbeast> I know this is different to eGRVTS but it's still kind of the same. 14:40:54 <Pinkbeast> start rv-wagons - yes please, although I ain't proposing to do the work so what do I get to say? 14:41:09 <Pinkbeast> I cannot remember the last time I placed a drive-into road stop 14:41:28 <supermop> i llike the idea of a couple fake brads 14:41:32 <supermop> brands 14:41:49 <supermop> two us brands, two EU brands? 14:41:50 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-14-60.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:42:38 <supermop> really big russian trucks based on icbm TELs should be in heqs anyway 14:43:08 <supermop> japanese trucks count as the same as eu for this set? 14:43:26 <andythenorth> not sure 14:43:31 <andythenorth> maybe 14:43:44 <andythenorth> japanese trucks made minimal impact in us + eu 14:43:59 <andythenorth> so my knowledge is limited 14:44:08 <supermop> we get a lot of rigid body hino and mitsubishi here 14:45:05 <supermop> id say minimal impact in us trailers but market dominance for rigid trucks in urban and industrial areas 14:45:27 <supermop> maybe that means they dont belong in what sounds like an over the road set 14:47:22 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-9.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:22 <supermop> ant this in every generation:also wh 14:47:32 <supermop> ??? 14:47:35 <supermop> also want 14:47:37 <supermop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape 14:48:28 <Elukka> andythenorth: i'd have some stat difference between the two brands that isn't negated by playing with breakdowns off 14:49:01 <Pinkbeast> Elukka> I think that is suggested - after all one has maximum speed, power, capacity, running cost, purchase cost to play with. 14:49:54 <andythenorth> supermop: I have one of those - near enough 14:50:15 <andythenorth> irl 14:50:22 <supermop> piaggio ape +rv wagons 14:50:27 <supermop> ape train 14:53:00 <andythenorth> supermop: in India you get piaggio and bajaj with fifth-wheel trailers 14:53:46 <supermop> a great case for rv wagons right there 14:54:42 <supermop> also, horse would make more sense if you just multihead a few Clydesdales then put whatever you want behind 14:55:03 <supermop> ctrl click to have the horse walk backwards 14:55:47 <andythenorth> supermop: it makes more sense yes 14:55:55 <andythenorth> but waiting for perfection makes no sense :) 14:56:00 <supermop> indeed 14:56:09 <b_jonas> horse-drawn trains are tricky because you want depot visits that replace the horse without the whole train entering 14:56:13 <andythenorth> I think this is me jumping off and saying "rv-wagons isn't going to happen forseeably" 14:56:20 <andythenorth> so I need to design a set around limitations 14:56:26 <andythenorth> which is a fun thing to do in some ways 14:56:34 <Pinkbeast> Simutrans has horse and cart as separate units, doesn't it? 14:56:48 <supermop> bandit should still be viable without wagons 14:57:14 <b_jonas> what happens if the UFO abducts the horse? 14:58:00 <supermop> rigid truck, trailer truck, and two-trailer truck, all refittable to anything 14:58:32 <andythenorth> and no rigids with pup? 14:58:37 <supermop> 5 trailer road trains might not make sense in tt 14:58:43 <Pinkbeast> Urrr. At least liquid tankers and refrigerated lorries are surely separate things not refittable to each other 14:58:54 <andythenorth> its only a body swap 14:59:00 <andythenorth> it's / its /s 14:59:05 <supermop> in this case refit reads as swap the trailer 14:59:22 <Pinkbeast> Even for rigid bodies? 14:59:24 <andythenorth> yup 14:59:45 <supermop> rigid truck chassis are pretty easy to mount anything to 14:59:52 <Pinkbeast> I guess absent rv-wagons it's best to turn a blind eye to any gripes with that. :-) 15:00:02 <andythenorth> I think so 15:00:20 <supermop> id second andy's suggestion of free refits of trailers, small token cost to refit a body 15:00:41 <Eddi|zuHause> google docs is obviously no perfect piece of software either... 15:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> as in: i can't access it right now... 15:00:59 <supermop> perfect is the enemy of the good 15:01:16 <andythenorth> if I ditch rigid + trailer, then it's only two 'types' 15:01:30 <andythenorth> as an articulated truck with one trailer could also be a b-train, a triple etc 15:01:34 <andythenorth> on refit 15:01:43 <andythenorth> would need a better subtypes gui though 15:01:51 <supermop> id keep it simple for now 15:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: assume split refit gui comes sooner or later 15:04:38 <supermop> yeah get a simple grf out now as something fun to do 15:05:25 <andythenorth> nml or nfo? 15:05:41 <supermop> nml - good practice? 15:05:46 <andythenorth> perhaps yes 15:06:04 <supermop> unaware of rv stuff in nfo not implemented in nml 15:06:26 <supermop> as to drive through stops 15:06:48 <supermop> i'd handle it as with egrvts but with a disclaimer 15:07:09 <andythenorth> I could just prevent all bandit vehicles using drive-into stops 15:07:12 <andythenorth> same for HEQS 15:07:16 <Pinkbeast> Who _does_ use drive-into stops anyway? 15:07:19 <andythenorth> me 15:07:21 <andythenorth> a lot 15:07:22 <supermop> drive intos are still useful for a station that has 1-3 trucks visiting 15:07:24 <supermop> i do 15:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: they're better when you do "full load" 15:07:36 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has joined #openttd 15:07:38 <Pinkbeast> Huh, all the world is not like me, who knew. :-) 15:07:40 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@94.142.234.1] has quit [] 15:07:51 <supermop> as then it takes up less room and doesnt block the street 15:08:05 <andythenorth> if I ban drive-into use, then the confusion is reduced 15:08:07 <Pinkbeast> I always do do "full load" for non-pax/mail cargoes except maybe FIRS supplies 15:08:47 <andythenorth> if I upgrade HEQS now to ban drive-into, people will get used to it 15:08:48 <Pinkbeast> I guess it's because I use trams where possible so don't really even consider drive-into designs with other RVs 15:09:03 <andythenorth> could we remove drive-into? 15:09:04 <supermop> i don't know if their are many people unaware/upset that articulated vehicles cant use drive into 15:09:09 <supermop> no 15:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: 3-axle coaches now in 15:09:58 <Elukka> :D 15:10:07 <supermop> just have them only accessible to rigid trucks 15:10:11 <Elukka> i just noticed i did a tiny mistake with the sprite, and the 2nd class version's going to be up very soon since i noticed there's no significant difference (besides color, that is) 15:10:18 <andythenorth> supermop: well they are already 15:10:27 <andythenorth> but I could give every rigid truck a trailer 15:10:34 <andythenorth> thereby preventing them using drive-into 15:10:40 <supermop> i would miss that functionality 15:11:00 <Elukka> i swear no matter how many times i look a sprite over after i finish it, some mistake will slip in 15:11:11 <supermop> what would be the case for doing that over using a tractor with two trailers? 15:11:19 <supermop> gameplaywise 15:11:30 <Elukka> the 4th class one i'm gonna do some reworking on 15:11:43 <andythenorth> supermop: not much case 15:11:52 <supermop> i'm not sure it would be worth losing the drive into bays 15:11:59 <andythenorth> it would be more interesting if partial refit was possible 15:12:02 <andythenorth> but it isn't 15:12:18 <supermop> as eddi said, assume it will come eventually 15:12:42 <andythenorth> partial refit might not 15:12:55 <andythenorth> but if it does, it doesn't change the newgrf 15:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> split != partial 15:13:30 <andythenorth> exactamly 15:13:53 <andythenorth> partial refit of articulated appears quite blocked 15:14:35 <Eddi|zuHause> could introduce some special flag to the articulated callback, like "here be new wagon". then you'd have like a 2-layer articulation, and can handle that second layer like individual wagons in the gui 15:15:03 <supermop> i think you have enough in your spec for a good start 15:15:31 <supermop> its too early to be harping over these specific case hurdles 15:17:15 <Eddi|zuHause> take the Henschel-Wegmann-Zug of CETS, it currently has an articulation like: [Engine, dummy, Mail wagon, dummy, dummy, (Middle wagon, dummy, dummy)x3, End wagon, dummy, dummy] 15:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that causes it to be shown as one big unit in the train gui, instead of the usual individual wagons 15:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if i could layer the articulation, i could do it like: [[Engine, dummy],[Mail wagon, dummy dummy],[Middle wagon, dummy, dummy]x3,[End wagon, dummy, dummy]] 15:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and the gui would know when to start a new line 15:18:52 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this sounds plausible ish 15:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> and the refit gui could allow selecting these individual parts 15:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> we need a new articulation anyway, for IDs > 128 15:19:31 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db197df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:08 <andythenorth> this is true also 15:20:11 <Elukka> sprites up 15:20:12 <andythenorth> where is the roadmap :P 15:20:13 <andythenorth> ? 15:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> open question: how to "hide" a sub-chain when refitting to fewer wagons? 15:20:59 <andythenorth> no idea :( 15:21:26 <andythenorth> the problem with clever hacks is.... 15:22:59 <andythenorth> ....they stack up complexity :) 15:23:07 <Elukka> hm. might be an idea to have both brown and grey roofed variant of the three axle coaches 15:23:09 <Elukka> easy enough to do 15:24:15 <Elukka> good god my early attempts are atrocious 15:24:28 <Elukka> at least i've gotten somewhere these past few weeks... 15:25:26 <supermop> heqs trucks were named after mountains? 15:30:50 <andythenorth> mostly 15:31:27 <supermop> would you rather name the brrands or the models in bandit? 15:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: so, could you post your updates _before_ i hit commit? :) 15:31:54 <Elukka> i try! 15:32:01 <Elukka> you should probably just let me fumble for a few minutes when i upload something :P 15:32:16 <andythenorth> supermop: both 15:32:25 <supermop> brands could be named after NA or european regions/locations 15:32:34 <supermop> regions are bigger than mountains 15:33:29 <andythenorth> true 15:33:52 <supermop> cahokia would bbe a good us brand name 15:34:45 <andythenorth> watersheds, mountain ranges, indian ranges etc would be good names 15:35:04 <supermop> was a centrally located civilization, that engaged in serious trading with other groups as far away as both costs 15:35:19 <supermop> fits the essence of over road trucking 15:35:45 <supermop> not sure if Cahokia or Cahokian is better 15:36:03 <andythenorth> where was it located? 15:36:12 <andythenorth> it's not the easiest name to read :) 15:36:21 <andythenorth> quite often I name things that are one-step removed 15:36:43 <andythenorth> like hydrofoil, built in a certain city, named after the tributary of the major river 15:36:45 <supermop> american bottom region - confluence of Missouri and Mississippi 15:37:00 <andythenorth> Missouri is not bad for a truck mfr 15:37:02 <andythenorth> nor is Confluence 15:37:05 <andythenorth> hmm 15:37:09 <andythenorth> maybe Confluence sucks 15:37:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Confluence = Koblenz 15:37:50 <supermop> it was on the opposite bank from modern st louis - which became an important city for european overland transport in the 19th century 15:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (german city, located at the confluence of Mosel and Rhein) 15:38:09 <andythenorth> hmm 15:38:17 <andythenorth> maybe name all the mfrs after confluence points 15:38:20 <supermop> that is white people traveling the major trails in wagons 15:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> so... someone wanted to teach me about recolouring 15:39:02 <supermop> so its a location that has been important for transport for thousands of years 15:39:33 <supermop> and its a native name so its clearly distinguishable from a european brand 15:40:25 <supermop> confluence might sound too much like a boat company 15:40:38 <andythenorth> or a wiki : 15:40:39 <andythenorth> :P 15:41:03 <Elukka> eddi, recoloring? 15:41:41 <supermop> I guess you will want vaguely German and vaguely Scandinavian names too 15:41:49 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 15:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: applying a recolour mask to a real sprite 15:42:26 <supermop> Valby is a good fake volvo, 15:42:30 <Elukka> oh, dark arts 15:42:48 <supermop> but the only think in valby is the carlsberg/tuborg brewery 15:43:01 <andythenorth> tuborg was a truck mfr I think 15:43:04 <andythenorth> or maybe it's a beer :P 15:43:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: trust me, you don't want to draw graphics for each bulk cargo individually ;) 15:43:08 <supermop> confluence of beer? 15:43:10 <andythenorth> terberg mfrs trucks 15:43:53 <Elukka> hm. so you draw one bulk cargo and you do magic to recolor it to the rest 15:43:57 <Elukka> *i draw one 15:44:01 <supermop> obviously the scania region is taken already 15:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: yep. probably in magic company colour blue or something 15:44:41 <andythenorth> better to dig to another level of abstraction :) 15:45:02 <andythenorth> what's the main town for, e.g. Mercedes truck production? 15:45:17 <andythenorth> in fact, Mercedes is covered already by HEQS: Gmund 15:45:27 <supermop> nice 15:45:34 <supermop> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Sweden_provinces_and_counties_overlayed.svg 15:45:42 <supermop> lots of good names there 15:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: trucks are probably produced at a different place than cars 15:46:27 <supermop> gottenburg is too literal for volvo i think 15:47:15 <andythenorth> supermop: find a suburb of gottenburg 15:47:18 <andythenorth> or a river 15:47:26 <andythenorth> or a street near volvo HQ 15:47:31 <andythenorth> it's easter eggs :) 15:47:35 <supermop> hmm how about dalarna 15:47:53 <supermop> different province but thats where those red horses come from 15:48:07 * andythenorth experiments with actually playing ottd 15:48:11 <andythenorth> briefly 15:48:17 <Elukka> it's a pretty good game! 15:48:37 <Elukka> could also big some nearby town for the truck name 15:48:38 <Elukka> Tuve? 15:48:48 <supermop> DalahÀst 15:49:01 <supermop> thats an awesome truck name right there 15:51:08 <andythenorth> Dalahast? 15:51:18 * andythenorth can't be bothered to type ummlaut :) 15:51:23 <supermop> red horse figurine 15:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> am i stupid? all "examples" of recolour sprites only say how to define one... not where to use it... 15:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> am i overlooking something trivial? 15:51:36 <supermop> supposedly represents odin's horse 15:51:57 <andythenorth> Odin 15:52:00 <andythenorth> is a good name 15:52:05 <Elukka> Tuve sounds nice and short to me, kinda like Volvo 15:53:06 <supermop> too long of a name, but this is up the river from gottenburg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrollhÀttan 15:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a stupid suggestion that i probably shouldn't say before 23:00 :p 15:53:28 <Rubidium> just get the ikea catalogue for scandinavianish names 15:53:29 <Elukka> do it anyway 15:53:35 <andythenorth> trollhattan is nice 15:53:45 <andythenorth> troll :P 15:53:46 <supermop> has a lock and dam 15:53:53 <supermop> transport related 15:54:34 <supermop> shit its 80 degrees outside and here i am at my computer 15:54:43 <supermop> im off to be in the sun 15:54:45 <supermop> later 15:54:52 <andythenorth> bye 15:55:12 <supermop> home you have fun with the trucks! 15:55:16 <supermop> hope 15:56:00 * andythenorth also toddles off to other things 15:56:03 <andythenorth> bye 15:56:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 15:57:55 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-86-31-202-169.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so really, who DOES know how recolouring is done? 16:22:39 <Elukka> did the door open sprite for the closed goods car 16:23:25 *** PeanutHorst [~peanutlx@115-64-68-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: SXEmacs - The Best A Geek Can Get - http://www.sxemacs.org/ or app-editors/sxemacs ] 16:25:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:29:16 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: what's the problem? it's just a mapping from {0..255} to {0..255} 16:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i'm asking how to apply it 16:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: how do i say "remap this sprite with this map" 16:30:18 <frosch123> there is some stupid callback 16:30:25 <frosch123> with weird return values 16:30:52 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's what i suspected, but i can't find it 16:31:32 <Elukka> hm, cattle car's another easy sprite 16:31:39 <Elukka> just a modification of the existing one 16:31:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: 2D 16:33:38 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: colour_mapping 16:33:46 <planetmaker> and purchase_colour_mapping 16:34:03 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 16:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: the car i noted in the tracking table isn't really for cattle, more for smaller animals like pigs, sheep, geese 16:35:42 <Elukka> hmm yeah that's what i meant 16:35:47 <Elukka> cattle isn't the word i wanted :P 16:35:53 <Elukka> http://www.osterthun.com/0Laenderbahnen/Gueterwagen/F5830-RA.htm 16:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah something like that 16:37:17 <Elukka> hmm wonder what the ends look like 16:37:32 <Elukka> same as the sides i guess 16:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say same as the normal closed wagon 16:39:23 <Elukka> i have a model, not of the same car but the construction of the body is practically identical, and the ends have the openings too 16:39:54 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 16:46:50 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has joined #openttd 17:15:51 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 17:18:01 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:21:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:23:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-180-059.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:19 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-057-081.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r23014 /trunk/src/lang/welsh.txt: 17:45:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:10 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: welsh - 3 changes by kazzie 17:49:11 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-242-199.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:06 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:24:35 <planetmaker> thank you Eddi|zuHause, for saying that wrt the 'curious bug' 18:24:50 <planetmaker> I had to restrain myself ;-) 18:29:38 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> conspiracy theory of the day: "the 'federal trojan' incident caused minister of interior Friedrichs to flee to Kabul" 18:32:35 <Rubidium> looks like the prototypical "I changed the NewGRF(s)" effect, and as such it's not a bug 18:33:47 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:37:00 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:42:28 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest13068 18:42:28 *** Guest13068 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:50:06 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i think separate column for recolouring is better 19:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> with similar syntax 19:18:02 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:49 *** pjpe [ae5f3bfb@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:32:49 *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@95-27-246-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:34:57 *** 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Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-175-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 20:06:13 <appe> guys, i have been working with mailroom and printing before, and ill say; the ECS industry printing works does not look like printing works usually do. 20:06:16 <appe> :) 20:06:53 <George> appe: Would you draw a better one? 20:08:47 <appe> no, and its not the quality of the structure that's the problem. it just doesnt look like printing works do. 20:09:06 <appe> ill be happy to contribute with a more acurate picture. 20:09:14 <andythenorth> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Selwood_Printing_Works_Frome.jpg 20:09:32 <andythenorth> google images thinks printing works look like this: http://wiki.openttd.org/images/2/20/Printing_works_ecs_32.jpg 20:09:45 <andythenorth> so I'd say George is 100% accurate :) 20:12:37 <planetmaker> lol :-) 20:16:20 <George> appe> ill be happy to contribute with a more acurate picture. <- well, in that case a task to draw a better graphics would have low priority in case good photos are provided. 20:20:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:26:02 <appe> George: i guess i can fix that. 20:33:21 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has joined #openttd 20:41:07 *** perk11 [~perk11@188.32.29.238] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:41:32 *** LordAro [~lordaro@host86-149-29-166.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:36 *** Katje [~Kitty@tao.quixotic.eu] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:44:38 *** Katje [~Kitty@tao.quixotic.eu] has joined #openttd 20:53:08 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-242-199.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:58 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho 20:57:55 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 20:58:18 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 21:32:35 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:33:36 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 21:33:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 21:39:54 *** DDR [~DDR@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: In democracy it's your vote that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes. - Mogens Jallberg] 21:44:51 *** devilsadvocate_ [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 21:44:51 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:07 *** joho [~joho@c-6f04e155.132-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Server closed connection] 21:49:08 *** joho [~joho@c-6f04e155.132-7-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 21:52:33 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:57 <planetmaker> good night 22:01:56 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:02:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:59 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:09:56 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:10:25 *** tneo [~tneo@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:11:46 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-246-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:12:13 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:16:26 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 22:18:11 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db197df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 22:19:25 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-11-161.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:30:49 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:49 *** KouDy [~KouDy@ip-78-102-233-64.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:00 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-180-067.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:46:23 *** lugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8d5d1.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:23 *** JVassie [~James@2.30.129.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-175-81.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [] 22:57:50 *** KenjiE20 [~Kenji@host-92-8-77-176.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:32 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Server closed connection] 22:59:47 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED2BEAE.cm-7-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 23:12:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Server closed connection] 23:13:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 23:17:28 <__ln__> http://vimeo.com/29950141 23:17:40 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Server closed connection] 23:17:41 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 23:33:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A197F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:54:59 *** Beengalas [~Beengalas@nl105-254-205.student.uu.se] has quit []