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08:21:07 <__ln__> press Strg-L 08:24:02 <peter1138> Beef Stroganoff 08:41:13 <Sacro> mmm 08:41:14 <Sacro> tasty 08:41:17 <Sacro> with suet pudding? 08:55:31 <Terkhen> good morning 08:56:01 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:34 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:18:39 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:18:58 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, but somehow gnome-terminal fscks it up 09:19:54 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 09:29:23 <Mazur> Which direction does the light originate in openttd? 09:29:45 <Celestar> there is no "light" really. 09:29:58 <planetmaker> Mazur: 4:30 09:30:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:30:32 <Celestar> but yeah, the sprites look like somewhere what planetmaker said >P 09:30:47 <Mazur> So, from the bottom-right? 09:30:54 <peter1138> all objects emit their own light :> 09:32:15 <Mazur> I ask for when I draw sprites, which sides are best lighted and which ones are in the shadow. 09:32:33 <planetmaker> Mazur: yes. 09:32:43 <Mazur> So all the funny answers were not really helping. 09:33:31 <Mazur> And then most from above or from the side? In other words, would the top be the lighter of hte two or the side, when seen 3/4 on. 09:34:45 <Mazur> I'm guessing either equally or the top a bit lighter. 09:37:38 <Mazur> Oh well, anyway, thanks, planetmaker. 09:39:04 <planetmaker> Mazur: well, whereever the sun usually is... so ... somewhater from top at 4:30 or so 09:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: the problem is, it's not really consistent throughout openttd itself 09:45:52 <Mazur> Well, I might as well have a go at spriting the way the consensus is going to. 09:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Mazur: have you checked the various grf wikis/tutorials= 09:46:53 <Pinkbeast> I don't think of most OTTD sprites as having a definite sun position. It's not like I can see the backside to know if it's lighter or darker... 09:47:14 <Celestar> :) 09:47:40 <Pinkbeast> ... and I certainly don't expect that faces will change brightness as they move from a 45- to a 90-degree angle to some hypothetical sun facing. That would look like the object itself changing colour. 09:48:19 *** blotek [~blotek@eqh222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:51:53 <Celestar> where is my openttd-opengl thingy ... :P 09:51:53 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast: you do expect the shading of vehicles to change when it turns. And they usually do 09:52:05 <planetmaker> it only shows really when not done ;-) 09:54:22 <Mazur> That's my idea, planetmaker. Subtle, but nonetheless there. You don;t notice it, because it's expected. 09:55:09 <Celestar> lol I still have it 09:55:11 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottdgl2.png 09:56:57 <MINM> is that what I think it is? 09:57:58 <Celestar> yeah 09:58:10 <Celestar> it required a Geforce 9800GTX to work properlz 09:58:14 <MINM> sweet. 09:58:17 <MINM> ...less sweet 09:58:45 <Celestar> and there was nothing on the map. 09:58:47 <Celestar> just .. the map 09:59:13 <peter1138> heh 09:59:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you have the wrong keyboard again 09:59:22 <peter1138> but it's polygons! polygons suck! 09:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant kezboard :p 09:59:31 <Celestar> lol 09:59:37 <Celestar> reallz_ 09:59:38 <V453000> OpenTTD 3D? :d 09:59:45 <Celestar> peter1138: lol 09:59:47 <TrueBrain> cubicals! 09:59:53 * MINM whacks peter1138 on the head 09:59:53 <Celestar> peter1138: what else do you wanna make things of :P 10:00:13 <Celestar> I'm wondering where the fucking code is for that image :D 10:01:12 <Celestar> I know it was like 350 lines. 10:02:22 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 10:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that's quite a lot... 10:09:24 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:10:20 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 10:10:38 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: well 300 was about to initialize the opengl engine or so 10:10:55 <MINM> is every tile a separate surface? 10:11:37 <Celestar> MINM: two actually. 10:11:42 <planetmaker> two? 10:11:45 <MINM> 0-o 10:11:48 <Celestar> yeah. two triangles 10:12:01 <planetmaker> oh, in that screenshot 10:12:16 <Celestar> da 10:12:59 <MINM> I may be a total nub with code, but I would have built a map out of a single surface 10:13:35 <Celestar> then you have a flat surface :P 10:15:53 <Celestar> I do not have the code here :( 10:15:55 <MINM> I meant as you have in blender, and then just sculpt the shapes 10:16:35 <Celestar> at some point, you need to return to basic shapes. 10:19:26 <Celestar> can't give opengl an arbitrary shape and say "draw this" :P 10:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> pipe it through blender! :p 10:20:30 <Celestar> lol 10:21:43 <MINM> that's probably not very beneficial to performance :/ 10:21:57 <Celestar> it depends. 10:22:12 <Celestar> on the smallest zoom level, you could easily get around 250fps. 10:22:27 <Celestar> but if you zoom out to see half the map, things get ugly 10:22:33 <Celestar> you cannot just render half the map. 10:22:37 <Mazur> Hell, yes, why don't you pipe it through a ray-tracer afterwards, to get that shading there isn't. 10:22:57 <Celestar> a ray-tracer .. right ... :P 10:23:25 <Mazur> Then you could get a moving sun... 10:23:29 <Mazur> :-P 10:23:32 <Celestar> er .. 10:23:42 <Celestar> that's easy. 10:23:47 <Celestar> a light was there. 10:23:58 <Celestar> it was just omnidirectional 10:25:01 <Celestar> otherwise you couldn't see a thing :P 10:34:22 <Celestar> when you load a savegame that is missing newgrfs, are those downloaded ? 10:36:16 <planetmaker> no 10:36:35 <planetmaker> you could click on "check online content" though and then download them manually from that very point 10:36:56 <Celestar> aha. 10:37:15 <planetmaker> no un-asked phoning home ;-) 10:37:47 <Celestar> just some things are not available :P 10:38:00 <planetmaker> that might well be 10:39:16 <Terkhen> :) 10:39:56 <Celestar> whats the latest status of DBSetXL anyway? 10:42:56 <planetmaker> same as 6 years ago 10:43:24 <planetmaker> with the addition of "will never be on bananas" ;-) 10:43:52 <Celestar> lol 10:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: announced release date 11. november 10:44:28 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: lol of what? 10:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> of DBSetXL 0.9 10:44:49 <Celestar> woot? 10:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i only believe that when it's there :p 10:45:17 <Celestar> is there a thread somewhere on the forums? 10:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=1284 10:45:50 <Celestar> thanks 10:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> more specifically: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=1284&pid=75463#pid75463 10:48:55 <Celestar> wtf is FIRS 10:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth's industry set 10:49:37 <MINM> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=4162 10:49:39 <MINM> do want 10:49:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you really did miss a lot :) 10:50:05 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 10:50:12 <Nite> Hi! 10:50:26 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: http://www.ttdpatch.de/download.html ? 10:50:30 <MINM> sadly, is still the future T.T 10:50:34 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: i've been outta the loop for basically 2-3 years? 10:51:00 <MINM> Ive got marico, but that's a screenshot of an as of yet unreleased newgrf, eddi 10:51:07 <Nite> i sometimes forget what the numbers mean when you use query on "houses" 10:51:20 <Nite> "passengers: 6/8" means? 10:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> MINM: as with pretty much all of MB's screenshots 10:51:24 <MINM> at least, that's what my limited understanding from german tells me from this thread 10:51:27 <MINM> http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5430&page=4 10:51:39 <Nite> (i browsed the wiki, but nothing there) 10:51:44 <Celestar> Nite: the "acceptance" 10:51:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: the numbers of all houses must add up to at least 8/8 10:51:59 <Celestar> Nite: you need 8/8 in the catchment of the station for the thing to be accepted. 10:52:30 <Nite> ok but it does say nothing about how many pax/mail etc produced? 10:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: no, it doesn't 10:53:00 <Nite> ic 10:54:08 <Nite> i still do not understand why there are two numbers, if "8/8" means "8" houses needed 10:54:18 <Celestar> erm. 10:54:21 <Celestar> fractions? 10:54:38 <Celestar> it's n/8ths 10:54:46 *** vorca [~vorca@p57BD6A3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: you can't expect people to understand 3rd grade maths... 10:55:30 <Celestar> do new music sets "override" each other or add new songs to the playlist? 10:55:52 <vorca> is this the right channel for questions about compiling the ottd source? 10:55:59 <Nite> so 6/8 means you need 0,75 houses? 10:56:03 <Nite> i dont get it 10:56:38 <Celestar> vorca: go ahead 10:56:41 <Nite> i know the second number means how many buildings are needd for acceptance 10:57:02 <Nite> why is there a first number? 10:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: the first number says "this house counts like 6 of those 8 houses" 10:57:38 <planetmaker> Nite: no. It means it supplies 6/8 = 0.75 of acceptance. 8/8 = 1.0 acceptance is needed so that the station accepts that cargo 10:57:40 <Celestar> Nite: you are aware of what a fraction is? 10:58:22 <vorca> i have win7 with vs2010, after including windosSdk07 and directx(plattfrom sdk) and ottd essentials, i get the compiler cant find "cstdio" file. 10:58:42 <Nite> thx planetmaker that is actually an explanation 10:58:56 <vorca> is there something i missed to include or some wrong settings from the project file? 10:59:17 <Yexo> cstdio is one of the most basic headers every compiler should provide 10:59:26 <Yexo> if it's missing you really messed up your vs2010 installation 10:59:29 <vorca> yes, thats why iam asking 10:59:33 <Celestar> yeah. sounds like a missing configuration or a fucked installation. 10:59:34 <Yexo> or your project settings, dunno 10:59:41 <Nite> ... so small house 2/8 + a large 6/8 would grant acceptance for example 10:59:58 <Celestar> aze 11:00:24 <planetmaker> wrong keyboard, Celestar :-P 11:00:44 <vorca> i have some trouble with different win/directx sdks, so maybe its lost somewere in include paths 11:00:45 <planetmaker> Nite: yes. 11:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe he meant the (former) license plate sign of Anhalt-Zerbst? :) 11:01:21 <planetmaker> Which is exactly interesting when the total of houses in the catchment area is just about the 1.0 margin. One gets replaced and acceptance might drop below 1.0 and you might have a problem. Temporarily at least 11:01:38 <planetmaker> hehe @ Eddi|zuHause 11:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they made some strange rearrangements recently, so that is now merged into Anhalt-Bitterfeld (ABI) (which doesn't really make a lot of sense, as Bitterfeld never actually was in Anhalt) 11:03:38 <Nite> as i can see its always "8" "points" needed 11:10:22 <planetmaker> Is in ABI-land the local transport organized by NASA? ;-) 11:10:52 <planetmaker> http://nasa.de/ :-P 11:11:15 <planetmaker> They should really make more of this name ;-) 11:12:09 <Celestar> well how do I activate the other music files 11:12:48 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i don't really get there often, that's the other side of the river... 11:13:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: in the game settings? 11:13:09 <planetmaker> :-) 11:13:20 <planetmaker> Celestar: game options -> Music set? 11:13:35 <planetmaker> or in the juke box, if it's just the other songs 11:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "im anhaltinischen BÀderdreieck konnte der geÃŒbte Reisende sogar Bad Leuna, Bad Buna und den Luftkurort Bitterfeld am Geruch unterscheiden ..." 11:16:31 <planetmaker> No doubt about that 11:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if the wind was in the right direction, we could actually smell Buna from our flat... 11:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the strongest smell i can remember is when we passed with the train through Böhlen (south of Leipzig) 11:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> (of course that was usually balanced by having a look at the electrified narrow-gauge coal transportation network) 11:21:59 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker thanks >( 11:22:31 <Celestar> hm. 11:22:39 <Celestar> would be fun if you could use all them :) 11:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the total number of titles is kinda hardcoded, i believe 11:23:31 <planetmaker> yes. It's 31(?) per music set. In any case 3*n + 1 11:23:32 <Celestar> heh 11:23:41 <Celestar> .... 11:23:52 <planetmaker> and iirc n=10 11:23:57 <planetmaker> you can have less, though 11:24:12 <Eddi|zuHause> fewer, actually 11:24:22 <Celestar> maybe I should change that first :P 11:24:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have less milk, but fewer cookies. 11:24:54 <Celestar> ffs. 11:25:06 <Celestar> wtb [proper midi shit] 11:25:22 <Celestar> the piano sounds like a rusty trumpet. 11:25:39 <Celestar> the violin sounds like a rusty trumpet. 11:25:51 <Celestar> the fluet sounds like a rusty trumpet. 11:26:03 <Celestar> only the trumpet doesn't sound like a rusty trumpet. 11:26:18 <planetmaker> loool :-) 11:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> electronic trumpets can never sound like real trumpets, it's mathematically impossible 11:28:22 <Celestar> but they can come a BIT closer than this ..... which more reminds me of a faulty human digestive system. 11:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> get a better soundfont then :) 11:28:43 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:28:45 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: how is it mathematically impossible? 11:29:22 <peter1138> i had a nice trumpet vsti 11:29:28 <peter1138> fairly convincing 11:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: there's some difference between electronic halftones (=log_2(1/12)) and "natural" halftones 11:30:33 <planetmaker> ehm... that's not a limitation of "electronic" music. It "just" needs proper tuning there, too 11:30:59 <planetmaker> going by the pure math separation of halftones of course will be different 11:31:12 <Celestar> planetmaker: that assumes the soundfont knows what key it is just in :P 11:31:31 <planetmaker> like one could record the single notes of a trumpet and then compose music from that :-) 11:31:38 <planetmaker> Celestar: yes... 11:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the other problem is when you create the tone by overlaying sinus-waves, you cannot mix all necessary waves in the proper way 11:31:47 <Celestar> the proble is, MIDI is ALWAYS out of tone. 11:31:50 <Celestar> tune* 11:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: usual synthesizers can only make like 4 sinus waves 11:32:06 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: how not if you have the range of ~20 ... 20k available? 11:32:19 <planetmaker> 4 sines certainly is MUCH too little, yes 11:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean simultaneously 11:32:24 <planetmaker> yes, sure 11:32:26 <Celestar> otoh. 11:32:40 <peter1138> MIDI is ALWAYS out of tone < what? 11:32:45 <planetmaker> but... every better wave generator allows arbitrary wave generation... 11:33:04 <Celestar> peter1138: The human ear tends to compress frequencies. 11:33:26 <Celestar> peter1138: very low frequencies are increased, very high frequencies are compressed. 11:33:38 <Celestar> peter1138: that's why you cannot "tune" a piano with a tuning device. 11:33:48 <peter1138> MIDI specifies notes, not frequencies 11:33:56 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and then real trumpets have bends and bruises that "spoil" the 'pure sinus' waves 11:33:57 <Celestar> yeah. 11:34:01 <peter1138> it's up to the synth how to translate note to frequency 11:34:08 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:34:10 <peter1138> that's not a property of MIDI 11:34:23 <peter1138> (MIDI does support detuning of course) 11:34:30 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah. but all MIDI implementations an octave is EXACTLY 1:2 11:34:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: you can de-compose any sound in pure sinus waves 11:34:48 <peter1138> well... you haven't played with the synths i've played with 11:34:49 <planetmaker> *sine 11:35:10 <peter1138> any good piano tuner knows that an octave should be slightly off 2:1 11:35:20 <planetmaker> :-) 11:35:24 <peter1138> thus, any good synth should also do similar 11:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but when you have "partial" sinus waves, that don't last over the full time of the tone, you get too many to model correctly 11:35:33 <Celestar> peter1138: they do not. 11:35:36 <peter1138> depends what its synthesizing 11:35:42 <peter1138> Celestar, not all do, but not all don't 11:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a "perfect" model 11:36:09 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: as said, that's only a limitation of cheap stuff 11:36:17 <peter1138> reasons why i dislike the scott-joplin music set for openttd: 11:36:22 <Noldo> how does the sampling work in human ear? 11:36:32 <peter1138> it's pitch perfect, it's velocity perfect, it's timing perfect. 11:36:35 <peter1138> it's perfect. 11:36:36 <peter1138> it's ugly. 11:36:40 <planetmaker> Noldo: much more complicated than easily explained here ;-) 11:37:02 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm just listening into it. 11:37:12 <Celestar> Noldo: it's ... difficult ... 11:37:30 <Celestar> Noldo: well BASICALLY it is some kind of FFT. but then there's the brain :D 11:37:35 <peter1138> the velocity & timing being perfect is more of an issue than pitch, mind you 11:37:39 <Noldo> :-) 11:37:47 <Celestar> peter1138: it makes me wanna vomit 11:38:38 <peter1138> whereas when i'm controlling midi with my keyboard, it's definitely not velocity & timing perfect 11:39:34 <Celestar> one would hope so 11:39:46 <Celestar> but the OpenMSX isn't bad. 11:39:53 <peter1138> all the editors do quantizing o_O 11:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> never listened to either 11:40:00 <peter1138> openmsx isn't bad indeed 11:40:09 <peter1138> probably because it's not just one instrument 11:40:14 <planetmaker> Noldo: we once had a colloquium talk on the "physics of hearing". It was a great talk. But allegedly only scratching the surface. 11:40:25 <planetmaker> Google tells me there are whole lecture (series) about this topic alone 11:40:40 <peter1138> the scott joplin set does stupid stuff like changing the global volume instead of adjusting velocity 11:40:49 <peter1138> that's not how it's supposed to happen :S 11:41:35 <planetmaker> OpenMSX certainly has good and bad pieces... as there's a lot of different artists involved 11:42:20 <Celestar> aze 11:42:59 <planetmaker> peter1138: if you can and want to compose and perform... one certainly might find a spot in that project ;-) 11:43:09 <peter1138> no, i can't 11:43:27 <planetmaker> no midi output? 11:43:47 <peter1138> i can't compose! 11:44:01 <Noldo> just slam your on the keyboard 11:44:03 <peter1138> and the stuff i do play would sound like crap on a standard soundfont synth 11:45:22 <vorca> i think the best is i reinstall my vs2010 version. 11:45:50 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:45:51 <vorca> sometimes i have some strange errors, so maybe it helps 11:49:59 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:27 <Nite> cya 11:53:31 *** Nite [5472b1fc@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:54:16 * peter1138 idly ponders high-res 8bpp sprites 11:54:29 <peter1138> probably not worth bothering with, heh 11:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like a high-res sprite in the purchase menu details 11:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (not in the list, would make that too large, only the details) 11:58:06 <peter1138> woo, 8bpp-ez! 11:58:23 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 11:58:31 <MINM> you know what would be pretty smooth? 11:58:55 <MINM> if in the details there's a washed out sprite of the vehicle in the background 12:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's no real reason why ez should be limited to 32bpp 12:02:31 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: there is a difference to allowing ez for 8bpp by zooming the sprites automatically and by allowing grfs to provide zoomed-in sprites 12:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: grfv8 could provide means for different zoom and different bitwidth sprites 12:13:36 <Celestar> what is ez? 12:13:43 <Eddi|zuHause> extra-zoom 12:14:07 <Celestar> ah 12:14:11 <Celestar> in or out? :P 12:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> in :) 12:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> out was possible once, but has been reduced by one level for reasons i can't remember 12:15:52 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez4.png < 8bpp-ez 12:16:36 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:16:39 <Yexo> commit, commit, commit :p 12:17:00 <peter1138> heh 12:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, break those pesky 32bpp-ez patches :p 12:17:16 <Yexo> the one I know of is already broken in multiple ways 12:17:27 <peter1138> so's this :p 12:20:01 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:20:55 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c945:6bf5:4947:cb1c] has joined #openttd 12:20:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:22:04 <Celestar> \o 12:22:58 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:38 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:26:58 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:30:38 <Celestar> oh man 12:31:49 <Celestar> DEAR FACILITY MANAGEMENT. If I call and I tell you "the loo is clogged" and you don't give a fuck, it's fine. If I call you and I tell you "the loo tank is leaking" and you don't give a fuck, it's file. But when I tell you "the loo is clogged and the tank is leaking" YOU BETTER START GIVING A FUCK.... 12:32:45 <planetmaker> :-D 12:32:51 <planetmaker> I hear you're having fun :-P 12:33:06 <Celestar> because now we have yellowish goo on the floor :P 12:33:20 <planetmaker> please spare me the details... 12:33:27 <Celestar> :x 12:33:49 <planetmaker> is it still save to give you a hug? Or would I smell then (too)? 12:33:56 <Celestar> nah 12:34:03 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-035-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 12:34:05 <Celestar> you know this customer ... is the king of workarounds. 12:34:26 <__ln__> please state the nature of the medical emergency 12:34:33 <Celestar> one day I arrived in pouring rain. There was some water in the foyer. 12:34:46 <Celestar> I called facility management "There's water on the floor, someone might trip" 12:34:58 <Celestar> 5 minutes later two guys arrived. 12:35:04 <planetmaker> and they put up signs "Beware: wet floor!" ? 12:35:07 <planetmaker> sounds familiar 12:35:13 <Celestar> precisely. 12:35:22 <planetmaker> precisely that happens here, too... 12:35:35 <Celestar> but we also add some yellow-black tape around the aera. 12:36:22 <Celestar> so we're ahead :P 12:36:51 <planetmaker> hehe 12:37:47 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:38:55 <Celestar> this phone-control-software is fun, too 12:39:05 <Celestar> you can tell the phone to make a call for example and shit. 12:39:52 <Celestar> fun thing is, it doesn't controls *SOME* phone that is assiciated to your windows user name 12:40:21 <Celestar> if you go to a completely different office and log in, you can tell the phone in the other office to call someone :P 12:40:57 <planetmaker> "nice" 12:41:19 <Celestar> also, you can tell that phone to call your current phone :P 12:41:32 <Celestar> so .. you can listen into your actual office without being there P 12:41:47 <Celestar> not sure that's even legal :D 12:43:35 <planetmaker> call as in without ringing the bell? 12:43:39 <planetmaker> That surely is illegal 12:44:03 <planetmaker> even your boss must not do that with anyone 12:44:39 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:21 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-014-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:46:19 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:39 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 12:47:33 <MINM> Celestar: I should still get around to connecting my PC to the voip telephone connection we have at home 12:47:37 <MINM> and buying a mike 12:48:38 <Celestar> planetmaker: well. 12:48:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: I'm "external employee" so .. er I don't give a fuck :P 12:49:18 <planetmaker> Celestar, you give shit about privacy because you're an external employee? 12:49:28 <planetmaker> Sounds kinda.... wrong 12:51:35 *** blotek_ [~blotek@eqh222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:55:48 <Celestar> planetmaker: well I can't do more than point it out. 12:55:52 <Celestar> planetmaker: which I did. 12:56:09 <Celestar> if the own employees do not care ... *shrug* 12:57:45 <planetmaker> Celestar, it's something which is a violation of your constitutional rights. In principle criminal investigators are interested in this kind of stuff 12:58:16 <planetmaker> Something which might be worth pointing out ;-) 12:58:42 *** blotek [~blotek@eqh222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:58:56 <Celestar> planetmaker: yeah 13:03:15 <Yexo> planetmaker: it's only a violation of rights if it actually happens. Having the option is (as far as I know) still not illegal 13:03:50 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:04:59 <Celestar> no it's not. 13:05:10 <Celestar> otherwise it would be illegal to sell microphones 13:05:24 <planetmaker> the mere presence might not be. 13:05:52 <planetmaker> Celestar, that's a difference. A microphone on its own doesn't allow remote surveilance 13:06:07 <planetmaker> Only in conjunction with logging or remote operation 13:06:57 <Celestar> yeah. theoretically every IP phone allows surveillance. 13:07:08 <planetmaker> And it's in any case criminal if done w/o the knowledge of the employees. And only allowed in some situations like analysis of customer calls 13:07:38 <Celestar> log in to the phone (telnet, ssh) and make a call to somewhere. 13:08:11 <planetmaker> well. Just get a Federal trojan and remote control it by means of that ;-) 13:08:58 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:09:40 <planetmaker> though they probably require a windows OS :-P 13:09:43 <peter1138> hmm 13:09:59 <planetmaker> which I don't expect to find in many phones. 13:14:03 <Celestar> welll 13:14:11 <Celestar> now that Nokia managed to mostly fold :P 13:15:01 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:16:11 <Celestar> I clearly need a better soundfont 13:16:18 <Celestar> ... how does one load soundfonts in linux :P 13:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 13:20:51 <peter1138> are you using timidity? 13:21:09 <peter1138> (try the fluidsynth patch, heh) 13:21:39 <Celestar> hm. 13:21:43 <Celestar> -mextmidi :P 13:23:13 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:02 <Celestar> fun. fluidsynth is 150MB installation 13:26:41 <peter1138> yeah, you can use fluidsynth perfectly well with -mextmidi 13:30:13 <Celestar> how would I do so_ 13:32:56 <peter1138> fluidsynth -a alsa -m alsa_seq /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 13:33:04 <peter1138> then 13:33:11 <peter1138> pmidi -l 13:33:16 <peter1138> get the port for fluid synth 13:33:16 <Belugas> hello 13:33:24 <peter1138> export ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=port 13:33:35 <peter1138> run openttd with -mextmidi:cmd=pmidi 13:33:58 <peter1138> a little more involved than the patch, i guess 13:34:56 <Celestar> heh 13:35:13 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:35:32 <peter1138> i should really finish off extmidi 13:35:34 <planetmaker> peter1138, wouldn't it make then sense to add the fluidsynth sounddriver? 13:35:42 <peter1138> so that you can supply parameters too :p 13:36:04 <peter1138> planetmaker, i don't like the hardcoded paths, but then there's the lack of being able to probe for them too :S 13:37:58 <peter1138> -mfluid:sf=/usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 ? :p 13:38:15 <Celestar> hm. 13:38:31 <Celestar> no sound :P 13:38:37 <Celestar> Port Client name Port name 13:38:38 <Celestar> 14:0 Midi Through Midi Through Port-0 13:38:38 <Celestar> 128:0 FLUID Synth (7440) Synth input port (7440:0) 13:38:44 <Celestar> which port does it want? 128 or 7440 ? 13:38:47 <peter1138> 127:0 13:38:48 <peter1138> er 13:38:49 <peter1138> 128:0 13:39:15 <Celestar> LMAO 13:39:23 <Celestar> I typed 127 in my export statement :D 13:39:58 <peter1138> hehe 13:40:04 <planetmaker> peter1138, yes, that's what stopped me with that patch, too 13:40:56 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:40:56 <planetmaker> But I didn't find any viable hints on where to find / store / assume soundfonts and whether one can assume any sane default at all 13:40:59 <Celestar> hm. 13:41:05 <peter1138> i don't think you can assume 13:41:09 <Celestar> doesn't sound much better.... 13:41:18 <Celestar> maybe I should try my external sound card at some point. 13:41:22 <planetmaker> thus probably the only option is to make it a cfg setting 13:41:36 <planetmaker> which the patch author did not supply ;-) 13:41:39 <peter1138> your external sound card has a hardware synth? 13:41:56 <peter1138> planetmaker, imho, cfg settings are wrong for drivers 13:42:35 <peter1138> it's already possible to set the driver's parameters 13:42:37 <Celestar> peter1138: yeah. 13:42:41 <Celestar> some terratec monster. 13:42:43 <peter1138> i.e. musicdriver = "extmidi:cmd=pmidi" 13:46:05 <Celestar> FF7 had a pretty decent software midi sequencer 13:46:11 <Celestar> by Yamaha 13:47:08 <Eddi|zuHause> we need soundfontconfig! :p 13:48:57 <planetmaker> peter1138, well, but a sound font is - as far as I saw it - a setting similar to a (type) font. Hence the similarity in names, too. Availability can vary by the user's install and preferences. 13:49:26 <planetmaker> But of course we can't supply any sound font along with openttd. It'd merely sixfold the download size... 13:49:29 <planetmaker> at least 13:49:50 <planetmaker> and we store font config in the cfg, too 13:49:57 <planetmaker> As we do music, graphics and sfx config 13:50:21 <planetmaker> and blitter 13:50:34 <peter1138> true 13:50:41 <planetmaker> it doesn't mean we should store the actual driver. Just the sound font 13:50:49 <peter1138> you can't specify a soundfont for all music drivers though 13:51:03 <peter1138> for instance, if i use an OPL3 synth, a soundfont is useless 13:51:09 <planetmaker> yep. But then it's graciously ignored 13:51:34 <planetmaker> as are my newgrf presets which I often don't use 13:51:45 <planetmaker> openttd is very liberal (luckily) what it allows 13:51:52 <planetmaker> It only adds to the cfg. But doesn't remove 13:57:04 <peter1138> well 13:57:15 <peter1138> fluidsynth is the only one that needs to be supplied with a soundfont 13:57:28 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:58:15 <planetmaker> yes, sure. But still IMHO it wouldn't hurt to store the user's preference for a sound font in the cfg 13:58:28 <planetmaker> those who don't bother don't need to care. It won't hurt them 13:58:49 <planetmaker> but it also doesn't answer the question for reasonable defaults 13:59:12 <planetmaker> it just makes it somewhat easier to use as I'd not have to specify a SF each time when using that driver 14:00:16 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:00:22 <peter1138> how about a generic alternative? 14:00:25 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:34 <peter1138> [driver] 14:00:35 <peter1138> param = value 14:01:03 <peter1138> [sdl] 14:01:08 <peter1138> hz = 44100 14:01:09 <peter1138> etc 14:01:20 <planetmaker> sounds good 14:01:28 <peter1138> [fluidsynth] 14:01:37 <peter1138> soundfont = /usr/share/sounds/sf2/... 14:02:22 <peter1138> maybe music_fluidsynth, so that sound_sdl and video_sdl don't conflict :) 14:02:40 <Yexo> how would you specify which of the sound drivers is used? 14:02:51 <planetmaker> same as now? 14:02:56 <peter1138> using sounddriver = as normal 14:03:19 <peter1138> basically extend the driver parameter system to also include settings from the config 14:03:28 <planetmaker> though one could devise a setting like sound=drivername 14:03:42 <planetmaker> and video=sdl 14:03:46 <planetmaker> or so 14:03:53 <peter1138> what's wrong with sounddriver=? heh 14:04:02 <planetmaker> well. yes :-) 14:04:11 <planetmaker> but that's the same as music driver, not? ;-) 14:04:27 <planetmaker> but sounddriver= and videodriver= is better 14:04:32 <planetmaker> so: yes 14:04:45 <peter1138> i'm confused. we already have sounddriver, videodriver and musicdriver 14:05:29 <planetmaker> hm, sound and music driver are different entities? 14:05:41 <planetmaker> then ok :-) 14:05:41 <peter1138> yes of course 14:09:19 <Celestar> we could convert all the music files into oggs and play them :P 14:09:24 <peter1138> you could 14:09:45 <Celestar> I fail to see a big disadvantage there (yet) 14:11:00 <Yexo> filesize? 14:11:08 <Celestar> yeah. 14:11:11 <Celestar> but it's not THAT much :P 14:11:28 <Celestar> compare to openttdcoop's newgrf packs :D 14:11:33 <Celestar> anyway I gotta run for a bit 14:11:34 *** dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:11:34 <Celestar> \o 14:11:48 <Eddi|zuHause> of course we have no legal way to convert the original music 14:12:06 *** Celestar [~dax@82.113.99.16] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:43 <z-MaTRiX> i dooont miss the music 14:13:51 <z-MaTRiX> try mp3 14:14:16 <z-MaTRiX> though once there were some cool sounds in "Lotus" 14:14:25 <z-MaTRiX> it was some kindof midi too 14:18:17 <peter1138> what do you mean "try mp3" ? 14:18:49 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:49 <z-MaTRiX> i used to put in music 14:18:57 <z-MaTRiX> like milk inc 14:19:12 <z-MaTRiX> scooter 14:19:40 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:20:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how does scooter constitute "music"? 14:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 14:20:19 <z-MaTRiX> hmm well 14:20:30 <z-MaTRiX> few years ago they have made a few 14:20:40 <z-MaTRiX> though nowadays they are fail 14:21:00 <z-MaTRiX> so stopped following ;< 14:21:49 <z-MaTRiX> heres a nice song 14:21:50 <z-MaTRiX> Vincent de Moor- Fly Away 14:22:26 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 14:23:46 *** vorca [~vorca@p57BD6A3E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:25 <z-MaTRiX> Anastasia - Anastasia :) 14:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you're talking about the same scooter whose entire repertoire consisted of shouting random words into a megaphone? 14:27:13 <z-MaTRiX> lets see 14:27:51 <z-MaTRiX> scooter - Re-Bell-Yell 14:27:56 <z-MaTRiX> this was not about that 14:28:15 <z-MaTRiX> scooter - Everything is borrowed 14:29:46 <z-MaTRiX> well th others are a bit like you said ;>> but still cool 14:30:10 <z-MaTRiX> let me be your valentine @ 298BPM ;>. 14:30:35 <z-MaTRiX> that was big too 14:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> sure they're cool. if you are a teenager and it's mid 1990s 14:31:07 <z-MaTRiX> :) 14:31:12 <z-MaTRiX> This is eternity 14:32:23 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-035-161.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that was 15 years ago, damnit... 14:32:36 <z-MaTRiX> it was 2 weeks for me 14:33:54 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-246.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:35:24 <z-MaTRiX> there are probably many tracks you never heard before, and they are many years old ;) 14:35:30 <z-MaTRiX> ABSOLOM - Secret ? 14:36:33 <z-MaTRiX> MUTE PRESENTS JUSTINE BAKER - R.H.Y.T.H.M. 2000 14:37:24 <peter1138> Can - One More Night 14:37:32 <z-MaTRiX> and milk inc was on the head of the toplists in 2002 14:37:50 <z-MaTRiX> and in some countries never herd of, years after... 14:40:26 <appe> milk inc :( 14:41:24 <z-MaTRiX> still alive though the girls are being changed over time ;< 14:42:01 <z-MaTRiX> i have all tracks ;> 14:43:05 <z-MaTRiX> there are similar LAsgo, and Sylver songs too 14:44:31 <z-MaTRiX> also note that scooter was generating music for Dune before 2k 14:45:16 <z-MaTRiX> so there are scooter instruments/notes in some dune songs 14:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean dune, who never had a single original note in any of their songs 14:48:38 <z-MaTRiX> ;> 15:22:55 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:23:19 <z-MaTRiX> ahaha 15:23:20 <z-MaTRiX> VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB 15:23:44 <z-MaTRiX> cat /proc/meminfo 15:30:09 <peter1138> VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB 15:30:13 <peter1138> coincidence? 15:30:42 <z-MaTRiX> yep 15:30:44 <planetmaker> uhm... :-) 15:30:47 <z-MaTRiX> ;> 15:31:15 * peter1138 remembers the days when the size of /proc/kcore corresponded to available RAM 15:31:38 <peter1138> if it still did, then i'd have 128TB in here... 15:33:58 <z-MaTRiX> cat /proc/softirqs | grep -i '[ ]timer' 15:34:03 <z-MaTRiX> can i use this for timing? 15:34:19 <z-MaTRiX> or RCU 15:35:16 <planetmaker> yes. The question is whether it'll be usable timing ;-) 15:35:23 <planetmaker> I can also use a broken clock for timing ;-) 15:35:29 <z-MaTRiX> was thinking about resolution 1/100 sec only... 15:35:55 <z-MaTRiX> cat <(date) /proc/softirqs 15:38:31 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> VmallocTotal: 34359738367 kB 15:43:50 <Eddi|zuHause> VmallocTotal: 122880 kB 15:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> err... 15:44:02 *** Strid [~Strid@c-4cc7e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 15:44:41 <z-MaTRiX> thats meant to be VmallocUsed i think 15:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> VmallocUsed: 314400 kB 15:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> VmallocUsed: 6772 kB 15:45:25 <z-MaTRiX> so you have 2 total sizes? 15:45:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i have two computers 15:45:42 <z-MaTRiX> ahaa 15:47:55 <Rubidium> interesting amount of allocated "memory" 15:48:07 <Rubidium> heh? Who op-ed me? 15:48:38 <Sacro> 05:06 -!- mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 15:48:45 *** mode/#openttd [-o Rubidium] by Rubidium 15:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> @base 10 16 34359738367 15:48:45 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 7FFFFFFFF 15:49:21 <Rubidium> oh, stupid chanserv 15:49:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so, will that be the next memory "limit"? 15:50:13 <Rubidium> 32GiB? 15:50:22 <Eddi|zuHause> TiB 15:50:42 <Rubidium> oh, it's in kB ;) 15:51:01 <Rubidium> @base 2**45 15:51:01 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Error: '2**45' is not a valid base. 15:51:10 <Rubidium> @calc 2**45 15:51:10 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 35184372088832 15:51:20 <Rubidium> @calc 2**45/1024 15:51:20 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 34359738368 15:51:39 <Rubidium> seems like an odd limit to me 15:54:51 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 15:55:04 <Rubidium> x86_64 currently supports 2**48 (256 TiB) 15:55:45 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:59:08 <Rubidium> can't really find a reliable source for the kernel limit (unless diving into the source code) 16:00:17 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-99.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A453.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:05:47 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:08:25 <z-MaTRiX> i got something for you here http://matrix.z-labor.com/tmp/largehdd_postmsg.jpg 16:14:22 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has left #openttd [Oops. Did i really want to do that, or was it just my window focus again?] 16:16:33 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:45 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:24 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b29.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:18:57 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:20:34 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 16:25:47 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:37:27 <Eddi|zuHause> http://root.stannigel.de/asmmhome/de_railway/doppelstock/doppelstock_dbm.html <-- who's gonna turn this into sprites? 16:38:05 <Rubidium> Dany! 16:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, just wanted to ask where the cubicles are when you need them :p 16:42:54 <z-MaTRiX> elaborating ghc 16:42:56 <z-MaTRiX> [183104] rotflcopter > (2/0) == (3/0) 16:42:56 <z-MaTRiX> [183105] lambdabot True 16:43:03 <z-MaTRiX> :) 16:43:17 <z-MaTRiX> [182900] mah_b > ((1/0)/(1/0)) == ((1/0)/(1/0)) 16:43:17 <z-MaTRiX> [182901] lambdabot False 16:43:35 <z-MaTRiX> [183155] rotflcopter > 0/0 /= 1 16:43:35 <z-MaTRiX> [183157] lambdabot True 16:44:44 <z-MaTRiX> opinions? 16:51:25 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:51:28 <MINM> huh. 16:51:38 <MINM> must have hit a wrong button today 16:55:03 <z-MaTRiX> hi crazy train driver 16:56:54 <MINM> me? 16:57:52 <z-MaTRiX> yes saw your real name 16:58:22 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: That list isn't even complete, it's missing all the modern variants with high doors at the ends. 16:59:00 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: possible 16:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: although none of the "high doors" types are actually in use in east germany 17:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> at least i have never actually seen one 17:05:47 <michi_cc> It might be possible that some of them have found their way into the east by now, but the high door variants seem to be more common in the west. Hannover for example usually sees high doors except at the cab cars. 17:07:36 <MINM> oh, right. 17:07:43 <MINM> don't remember when I config'd that. 17:07:47 <MINM> must've been drunk. 17:09:46 *** heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd 17:18:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe9ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:18 <|Jeroen|> mhzz never tried drunk coding, can't be easy 17:20:32 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:25:18 <MINM> I can be at my most productive when buzzed 17:28:33 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:28:36 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:33:23 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:45:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23058 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt: 17:45:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: tamil - 1 changes by aswn 17:47:02 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:47:44 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:53:37 <z-MaTRiX> 0*0 /= 0; 0/0 == 1; 0+0 == 2*0; 0*0 /= 1*0 /= 2*0; opinions? 17:55:43 <Alberth> 0/0 == 1 ???? who was your math teacher? 17:55:55 <z-MaTRiX> any number / itself = 1 17:56:04 <z-MaTRiX> 0 is a number 17:56:21 <Alberth> except division by 0 is undefined 17:56:29 <Eddi|zuHause> where's that stab-over-IP device? 17:56:51 <z-MaTRiX> any number divided by zero is infinity 17:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> so 0/0 is both 1 and infinity! 17:57:39 <z-MaTRiX> no, its division by itself 17:58:24 <z-MaTRiX> but not bad question <; 17:58:46 <__ln__> z-MaTRiX: mathematicians of the world are grateful that you solved the question they've been pondering for so long -- what's something divided by zero. 17:58:53 <z-MaTRiX> ;>> 17:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: in fact, you can make 0/0 be _any_ number 17:59:54 <Alberth> z-MaTRiX: next problem, what's sqrt(-1) ? (this one is actually easy :p ) 18:00:00 <z-MaTRiX> a/a = 1 18:00:13 <z-MaTRiX> well thats been solved already 18:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (2a)/a = 2 18:00:21 <z-MaTRiX> sqrt(-1) = i 18:00:35 <z-MaTRiX> (sqrt(-1)*sqrt(-1))=-1 18:00:37 <Alberth> :) 18:00:42 <Eddi|zuHause> for a=0 you have (2*0)/0 = 0/0 = 2 18:00:57 <z-MaTRiX> Eddi|zuHause<< no, make it 2*(a/a) = 2 18:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: but what if sqrt(-1) = -i? 18:01:26 <z-MaTRiX> Eddi|zuHause<< thats an imaginary number 18:01:40 <z-MaTRiX> called i 18:01:50 <Alberth> no, Eddi|zuHause is not an imaginary number, I am sure! 18:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: but (-i)*(-i) = -1 as well. so sqrt(-1) must be -i 18:02:23 <z-MaTRiX> http://www.google.com/search?q=sqrt(-1) 18:02:54 <frosch123> sqrt(x) is not a number, but a set of two numbers 18:03:07 <frosch123> where {0, 0} counts as set of two numbers :p 18:04:15 <z-MaTRiX> Eddi|zuHause<< yes 18:04:52 <z-MaTRiX> (-sqrt(-1)) * (-sqrt(-1)) = -1 18:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's even more, when you count all the "equivalent" representations of r*e^(phi*i) separately 18:05:05 <z-MaTRiX> (-sqrt(-1)) * sqrt(-1) = 1 18:05:25 <Alberth> so -1 is 1 18:05:42 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that would not be related to the sqrt, but could be said about any number 18:05:51 <z-MaTRiX> still imaginary number :) 18:06:05 <frosch123> z-MaTRiX: sqrt(-1) * sqrt(-1) != sqrt(-1)^2 18:06:46 <z-MaTRiX> False 18:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is fairly relevant once you speak about holomorphic functions. e.g. the holomorphic expansion of sqrt to some subset of |C 18:07:18 <frosch123> the cross product of two sets is not the element-wise square of a set 18:07:59 <z-MaTRiX> -i = 1 / sqrt(-1) 18:10:46 <frosch123> z-MaTRiX: what's the third root of -1 ? 18:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: your way only works if you take the holomorphic expansion of sqrt to the plane |C \ (-oo,0) with sqrt(1)=1 18:11:22 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: but there are infinitely many holomorphic expansions of sqrt 18:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: almost none of which result in sqrt(-1) = i 18:12:48 <z-MaTRiX> -(1^(-3)) = -1 ; -(1^3) = -1 18:13:49 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: if you say that in a maths exam, you almost automatically fail. 18:14:56 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.55] has joined #openttd 18:15:33 <z-MaTRiX> well i said that many times and i passed 18:15:46 <z-MaTRiX> also use it in electronics for calculations 18:15:54 <z-MaTRiX> your computer uses it too 18:18:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has joined #openttd 18:19:07 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:19:22 <Wolf01> hello 18:27:36 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-99.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:38 *** Elukka [Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: ok, then something easier, what's i^i? 18:36:11 <z-MaTRiX> sqrt(-1)^sqrt(-1) = 0.207879576 18:36:24 <z-MaTRiX> good question <; 18:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the exact value 18:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> including how to actually derive it 18:36:48 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 18:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (we did that in school, btw.) 18:37:46 <__ln__> am i the only one who feels that WolframAlpha used to accept Mathematica syntax, but now it doesn't anymore? 18:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: maybe your mathematica syntax is off instead? 18:38:36 <Rubidium> e**(-pi/2)? 18:38:47 <z-MaTRiX> ((-1)^(1 / 2))^((-1)^(1 / 2)) = 0.207879576 18:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yup 18:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: how's that more accurate than your previous statement? 18:40:46 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i guess that's possible 18:41:05 <z-MaTRiX> you could write i^i 18:42:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it's actually pretty funny that it's a real number :) 18:43:12 <z-MaTRiX> no its not 18:43:16 <z-MaTRiX> its an imaginary number 18:43:27 <Rubidium> it reminded me of e**(pi*i) 18:44:07 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: what's the imaginary part of 0.207879576? 18:44:36 <frosch123> 0 18:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: in some way it has to do with that, yes 18:46:11 <z-MaTRiX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_number 18:46:17 <z-MaTRiX> giving up 18:46:22 <z-MaTRiX> bb 18:47:37 <z-MaTRiX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_square_root#Square_roots_of_negative_and_complex_numbers 18:50:26 <frosch123> z-MaTRiX: when you have read that, you should result in exp(-pi/2) 18:50:49 <frosch123> oh, rb, already said that 18:51:19 <Rubidium> sorry, my bad ;) 18:52:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:55:55 <andythenorth> hola 18:56:40 <Terkhen> hi andythenorth 18:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> holá señor 19:02:22 <__ln__> ¿todos ya les han comprado algo de amazon.es? 19:05:05 <Terkhen> amazon.es sucks 19:05:32 <Terkhen> it has almost nothing, and the books I wanted last time were cheaper on .co.uk 19:05:47 <Terkhen> it might get better after some time but for now... 19:07:50 <__ln__> me compró un libro y un cd 19:19:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there are other places where you can get spanish language books 19:25:25 <__ln__> probably, but not too well known. 19:26:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... need inspiration on how to do company specific introduction dates 19:27:12 <Terkhen> yes, they exist 19:27:23 <Terkhen> but luckily I can read english fine :P 19:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i only read like two english language books 19:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> actually i only remember one 19:29:52 <Belugas> me too, the last one read :) 19:30:03 <Belugas> actually...not even a book.. an instruction manual... 19:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you actually read instruction manuals? :p 19:31:16 <Belugas> ho yeah... 19:31:21 <Belugas> like bible... 19:31:28 <Belugas> last one to date: BOSS GT10 19:31:40 <Eddi|zuHause> never actually read the bible either 19:38:23 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:38 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:59 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:40 <__ln__> the bible should be read in its original language, english 19:39:54 <b_jonas> __ln__: you mean klingon 19:40:20 <b_jonas> __ln__: which of the English translations is the original? 19:42:34 <Eddi|zuHause> b_jonas: the one done by your local ultra-funamentalist hate-preacher 19:42:36 <Alberth> english the original language? 19:43:20 <Alberth> sounds highly unlikely to me 19:43:56 *** blotek_ [~blotek@eqh222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:20 * andythenorth has read an english language book 19:45:15 <b_jonas> I am reading an English language book right now, but not the Bible 19:47:22 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:47:27 * Alberth sets a check-mark at the b_jonas/reading English book, and a cross at b_jonas/Bible 19:48:36 <Alberth> still stuck :p 19:48:54 *** blotek [~blotek@eqh222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p 19:49:24 <andythenorth> here is the book I read :P http://www.amazon.com/LeTourneau-Earthmovers-Eric-C-Orlemann/dp/0760308403/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319744948&sr=1-1 19:50:32 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:51:05 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 19:53:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd 19:54:42 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:46 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 19:56:11 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest14986 19:56:11 *** Guest14986 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:58:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:59:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-140-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:04:40 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:12:01 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@client-86-31-213-47.oxfd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:25:39 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-014-091.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 20:28:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23059 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix [FS#4794]: if a newgrf overrides a default house the minimum start year for that house was set to 1930 20:45:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe9ca.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:33 <Wolf01> 'night 20:46:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:01:17 <Terkhen> good night 21:02:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:04:08 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:04:08 *** George is now known as Guest14992 21:04:08 *** George|2 is now known as George 21:04:46 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:05:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:07:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:09:42 *** Guest14992 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:30 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 21:10:55 <Eddi|zuHause> something is very wrong with the newest wine i installed a few days ago 21:28:17 <Markk> Wrong type of grape? 21:42:04 <TrueBrain> not enough alcohol? 21:45:45 <glx> or too much 21:49:09 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 21:54:23 <supermop_> did you install the wine directly to the liver? 21:55:10 <Markk> IJ - Intra jecur (liver) 22:21:22 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:33:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AE4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:00 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-140-205.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6AD3D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 22:36:27 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-77-215.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 22:42:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A453.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:43:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:53 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:59:24 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 22:59:43 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-77-215.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:02:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:18 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:03:22 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:15:56 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 23:30:25 *** supermop__- [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:36:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-246.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 23:46:41 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:28 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-77-215.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd