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00:10:18 *** SpBot [spbot@skrblz.fixme.fi] has joined #openttd 00:13:44 *** ptr_ [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 00:22:49 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: "that a vehicle set author has a way to ensure that every cargo, known or not." <- aren't you mssing something like "can be transported" at the end? 00:23:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:37:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1ADE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:20 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:47:05 <peter1138> 23:43 < Eddi|zuHause> if you automatically exclude all entries of the CTT from refitting, i need to re-add it to every vehicle that previously decided based on classes 00:47:08 <peter1138> well no, 00:47:29 <peter1138> cos if the vehicles decided based on class, they wouldn't have the CTT refit property 00:47:53 <peter1138> so it would still be based on class 00:52:09 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but the vehicle might have needed the refit property for other cargos 00:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: like the default cargos WOOD and STEL, which have "wrong" classes, so need to be overridden manually 00:59:27 <peter1138> bah, backups 01:10:53 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 01:17:16 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:18:30 <michi_cc> peter1138: I fixed you EZ patch :) 01:18:46 <michi_cc> peter1138: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/fix_ez.patch on top of your ez2.patch 01:20:53 <michi_cc> No idea if the second hunk is needed or good, but I figured that this way leads to the same viewport area restriction. 01:27:55 <z-MaTRiX> i've bought a god of knives ;> 01:28:03 <z-MaTRiX> a ceramic knife 01:29:38 <z-MaTRiX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_knife 01:30:20 <z-MaTRiX> cuts apple including seeds like butter 01:31:55 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-044-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own] 02:05:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73986.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:04 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20111008085652]] 02:36:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:50:50 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 03:16:49 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 03:25:11 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-240-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:28:30 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 03:30:16 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-217-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:33:36 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:34:22 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 03:38:36 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:52:23 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 03:56:48 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 03:57:34 <Snail_> hi there 03:58:06 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:23 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e3:6096:592c:9d52] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:08:23 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 04:14:21 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:14:22 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 04:14:36 <Snail_> hi there 04:18:36 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:54:46 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 05:00:06 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:04:46 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 05:10:06 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:20:23 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 05:26:21 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:06:22 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 06:12:20 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:23:33 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 06:25:32 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 06:28:35 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:39:30 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:54:05 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 06:59:59 <Terkhen> good morning 07:12:55 <planetmaker> moin 07:20:54 <peter1138> michi_cc, ah, so i really was drawing too much :D 07:21:13 <peter1138> yes, it's perfect now 07:21:56 <peter1138> right 07:21:58 <peter1138> only thing is 07:22:06 <peter1138> i need some 32bpp graphics to test with 07:22:11 <peter1138> are there any? ;) 07:24:40 <planetmaker> what kind of 32bpp? 07:26:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:34:13 <peter1138> planetmaker, i suppose whatever there is? 07:34:42 <planetmaker> ez or normal? 07:35:13 <planetmaker> or both. I have a few normal 32bpp graphics here. which provide a few ground tiles, maybe a few houses. not sure anymore 07:35:40 <planetmaker> and I can never remember the download links... I guess I got it off jupix server 07:35:44 <peter1138> both would be good for testing 07:35:49 <Yexo> peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=47121&start=0 07:36:13 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 07:37:17 <peter1138> cool cool 07:39:18 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:39:57 <peter1138> this patch is now 48KB :( 07:40:34 <peter1138> fixing the sprites in the gui took 10KB 07:41:45 <andythenorth> when do you people sleep? :P 07:41:51 <andythenorth> you don't even have children to blame 07:42:19 <peter1138> i just had ~6 hours 07:43:07 <andythenorth> enough for margaret thatcher 07:44:15 <peter1138> you don't understand, this is ez for all blitters ;) 07:44:24 <peter1138> not only that, but there's no changes to any blitter 07:45:21 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 07:45:52 <planetmaker> good good :-) 07:51:44 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 07:53:46 <Terkhen> :) 07:54:59 <peter1138> question is, is the concept sound? 07:57:26 <murr4y> or is it a concert sound 08:00:47 <peter1138> oh no 08:00:53 <peter1138> 16x zoom in doesn't work! 08:01:39 <peter1138> it's also really slow 08:04:30 <planetmaker> hehe :-) 08:11:15 <peter1138> just loading sprites causes judders :) 08:11:22 <peter1138> once loaded it's fine, mind you 08:13:22 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 08:15:05 <planetmaker> he :-) Cache more :-P 08:15:22 <planetmaker> 1GB sprite cache ;-) 08:15:27 <peter1138> i was using 512MB 08:15:48 <peter1138> the cache is fine, but sprites are loaded on demand 08:15:53 <peter1138> and that takes time with 16x 08:15:59 <peter1138> it's fine with 4x :) 08:17:12 <planetmaker> :-) 08:18:51 <andythenorth> uh oh 08:19:00 <andythenorth> I'm about to propose something insane 08:19:05 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:34 <andythenorth> mask out some of the class bits, making them unavailable for use 08:19:55 <andythenorth> i.e. adding *fewer* features for once, instead of more 08:22:00 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:22:22 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:25:56 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B293.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:56 <andythenorth> leaving cargo class bits reserved and available for future use is a bit of an unexploded bomb as far as compatibility goes 08:30:14 *** Celestar [~dax@217.110.29.210] has joined #openttd 08:30:16 <andythenorth> well-meaning idiot like me comes along and invents new classes 08:30:19 <Celestar> \o morning 08:30:54 <Celestar> peter1138: where was that thing that needed AddSortableSpriteToDraw for landscape? 08:31:42 <andythenorth> then my favourite vehicle set author adds support, so I think all is well 08:31:51 <Celestar> peter1138: is it in AddTileSpriteToDraw? 08:31:57 <andythenorth> but due to combination of refittable and exclude props, a lot of vehicle sets now don't support my cargo :P 08:31:59 <andythenorth> (in theory) 08:32:34 <andythenorth> classes should be minimal, stable, and the number of classes should not be extensible 08:32:43 <andythenorth> that's not wholly true right now 08:33:22 <andythenorth> relying on people to do the right thing causes this discussion to occur once every n years :P 08:34:05 <peter1138> Celestar, yeah, make it call AddSortable... instead 08:35:14 <Celestar> peter1138: attempting .. 08:36:56 <peter1138> Celestar, as a lazy optimisation, anything with z <= 8 can be done as normal, i think 08:40:12 <Celestar> peter1138: sounds .. premature :D 08:40:23 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 08:44:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.174.52] has joined #openttd 08:45:35 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:45:41 *** lobstarooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 08:48:22 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 08:50:05 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.187.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:52:36 <peter1138> yup :) 08:53:58 <peter1138> heh, ff is slower when fully zoomed in 08:54:16 <peter1138> the advantage of less updated tiles to draw is outweighed by the larger sprite sizes 08:54:20 *** lobstarooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:56:18 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez7.png 08:56:19 <peter1138> o_O 08:56:56 <peter1138> appears to be a glitch :( 08:57:56 <planetmaker> yes, they drive on the wrong side :-P 08:58:25 <peter1138> ahh, ViewportAddVehicles needs some scaling, i guess 09:01:24 <Celestar> peter1138: scaling? 09:01:37 <Celestar> ah lol. 09:01:37 <Celestar> hm. 09:01:47 <peter1138> one of the double-deckers :) 09:01:48 <Celestar> somehow vehicles are drawn wrongish now 09:01:53 <peter1138> oh? 09:02:27 <Celestar> AddSortableSpriteToDraw 09:02:44 <Celestar> what's the values for w, h, and dz :P 09:02:48 <Celestar> 16, 16, 1? 09:02:49 <peter1138> 16 16 0 09:02:51 <Celestar> aaaaah 09:03:03 <Celestar> obiwan 09:05:16 <Celestar> that gives some clipping errors when drawing rail tiles 09:08:18 <Celestar> .. 09:08:27 <Celestar> because that still uses DrawGroundSpriteAt 09:09:01 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-73.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:15:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 09:15:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:28:39 <peter1138> yeah, you probably need to fix that too :) 09:29:24 * andythenorth wonders if just one class property is enough to provide fallbacks: exclude 09:30:14 <andythenorth> if (! class in mask) { allow refit } 09:30:14 *** Celestar [~dax@217.110.29.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30:51 *** Celestar [~dax@217.110.29.210] has joined #openttd 09:31:50 <andythenorth> then the fewer classes set by cargo author, the more likely cargo will be transported 09:32:16 <peter1138> grfv8: remove classes and make everything explicit by label 09:32:50 <andythenorth> it's a nice option 09:33:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: solid stuff and liquid stuff? 09:33:11 <andythenorth> planetmaker: really, I think that's the way forward 09:33:16 <andythenorth> this isn't satire or trolling 09:33:21 <planetmaker> as they're mutually exclusive we can abolish classes and make liquid a simple flag 09:33:39 <andythenorth> it doesn't need to be quite so brutal 09:33:50 <andythenorth> bulk, piece, liquid are adequate 09:34:03 <andythenorth> we don't have this crap with industry types 09:34:25 <peter1138> bulk, piece & liquid, yes 09:34:29 <Celestar> peter1138: it's getting worse :D 09:34:44 <andythenorth> extractive, organic, processing, black hole, we don't have n different kinds for industries 09:34:47 <peter1138> Celestar :( 09:34:54 <andythenorth> and if we added new ones we'd piss off all the AI authors 09:35:04 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm afraid it's not a simple fix for cliffs. 09:35:17 <andythenorth> that was bad maths, we do have n different kinds, but the value of n is known :P 09:35:22 <peter1138> probably not. it was only an idea for a hack anyway :S 09:35:24 <Celestar> if I only knew more about our drawing shit :D 09:35:58 <peter1138> well 09:36:06 <peter1138> i happen to have just delved through it all :p 09:36:13 <Celestar> haha :D 09:36:26 * peter1138 ponders splitting this EZ patch up 09:36:27 <Celestar> peter1138: the problem now are rail sprites ... 09:36:52 <andythenorth> just do two bytes: pax, mail, 'express' are all set by the bitmask for the 'express' byte; bulk, piece, liquid are set by the bitmask for the 'freight' byte 09:36:54 <andythenorth> done 09:37:24 <andythenorth> make it NOT 09:37:46 <Celestar> peter1138: http://www.dropmocks.com/mh2M1 see the monorail on the left for example 09:37:51 <andythenorth> unless I choose to exclude xyz, my vehicle now supports all cargos this way 09:38:09 <peter1138> dropmocks is so slow :( 09:38:31 <peter1138> aye, that's broken :) 09:39:06 <Celestar> weird dropmocks is damn fast for me :P 09:39:52 <peter1138> hmm, wonder if it's privoxy doing shit then 09:40:09 <andythenorth> dropmocks is middlingly slow for me 09:40:20 <Celestar> andythenorth: what browser? 09:40:37 <peter1138> nope, not privoxy 09:40:42 <peter1138> it just spends ages on Loading... ... ... 09:40:55 <Celestar> are you using HTML5? 09:41:06 <peter1138> erm 09:41:09 <peter1138> i'm using chrome 09:41:13 <Celestar> so it should :P 09:41:24 <andythenorth> Celestar: safari (webkit) 09:41:26 * Celestar goes trying it in chrome 09:41:54 <Celestar> took 4 seconds for me in chrome 09:41:57 <Celestar> the whole image. 09:42:18 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we could force the issue a little by only defining minimal classes in FIRS. I half-think MB might agree about it, maybe ge*rge also 09:42:31 <Celestar> peter1138: the question is .. what exactly did I break :D 09:43:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I don't think there's *the* solution 09:43:23 <planetmaker> The only thing we really can do is to really explain the existing classes just fine 09:43:33 <planetmaker> with a exact guide on how to use them 09:43:40 <planetmaker> and maybe declare a few deprecated 09:43:52 <planetmaker> And the pro of this is: nothing else than documentation needs changes 09:44:32 <planetmaker> I might have stomach ache about changing FIRS cargo classes. But that might be feasible as there's probably not yet much support for them 09:44:50 <planetmaker> only terkhen and myself will swear about that. 09:44:57 <planetmaker> and you 09:45:02 <planetmaker> yourself 09:45:10 <planetmaker> so that'd probably be fine 09:45:12 <peter1138> eddi seemed rather fixated on making classes the be-all and end-all though 09:45:55 <peter1138> (32bpp-anim ez!) 09:45:58 <planetmaker> I still don't see the big difference the suggestions make. Except giving a backward ache 09:45:59 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we don't actually set that many classes at >8 09:46:13 <planetmaker> *backward compatibility 09:46:19 <andythenorth> planetmaker: with the current system, it's way too easy to have it blow up in your face 09:46:31 <planetmaker> The suggestion certainly is worth IFF we would design it from scratch. But we can't 09:46:43 <andythenorth> the more classes you set, the more likely you are to get an exception due to AND NOT 09:46:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: only if cargos and vehicles handle it wrong 09:46:52 <planetmaker> which they can also with any new system 09:47:05 <andythenorth> but the requirement is to set as many classes as possible 09:47:21 <andythenorth> to enable vehicle set authors to do precise support with classes, this is Eddi's point 09:47:22 <planetmaker> adding one or two additional properties which define refit or disallow refit by label don't break classes 09:48:12 <andythenorth> I dislike the inbuilt contradiction in the current system. "Please set as many classes as possible, but that is likely to cause your cargo to not be refittable" 09:48:21 <andythenorth> seems a bit dumb tbh 09:48:41 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that contradiction is not inbuilt into the current system 09:48:49 <planetmaker> it's only the usage 09:48:59 <planetmaker> something which explanation / documentation can fix 09:49:29 <andythenorth> true about the usage 09:49:55 <andythenorth> but explaining it / documenting doesn't solve it, it's just the same conversation every time new authors turn up who missed the last 6 days of fun 09:50:07 <andythenorth> I guess I'd like to make it go away :) 09:50:31 <Celestar> peter1138: http://www.dropmocks.com/mh3kB 09:50:35 <Celestar> it is slightly better .. but.. 09:50:49 <andythenorth> I hope that refusing to use classes >8 in FIRS would not break too much 09:53:08 <andythenorth> I can forsee myself being MB in 6 years time, pasting old discussions into the forums :P 09:53:20 <Celestar> can you do a better DBSet? :D 09:53:24 <peter1138> how can i view that image without scaling? 09:53:47 <andythenorth> is DBSet good? I never used it. It looks nice in the screenshots 09:54:02 <Celestar> peter1138: good question 09:54:07 <Celestar> lemme upload a cropped version 09:54:16 <peter1138> heh 09:54:31 <andythenorth> Celestar: \o/ (screenshot) 09:54:34 <peter1138> andythenorth, well, it's a little dated 09:54:41 <peter1138> but it's good 09:54:44 <peter1138> it's also buggy 09:55:03 <peter1138> cos it relies on some vehicle properties being broken 09:55:35 <planetmaker> Celestar: have a look at CETS ;-) 09:55:46 <Celestar> peter1138: same link, next image 09:55:48 <Celestar> planetmaker: CETS? 09:55:56 <planetmaker> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/nightlies/LATEST/ 09:56:09 <planetmaker> or https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkXAVZqXTFQxdHM3UlpWM1hPZWpfeTlkdnZsMldjSkE&hl=en_US&authkey=CO2PmdYG#gid=0 <-- table 09:56:24 <planetmaker> central european trainset 09:56:27 <andythenorth> Celestar: still \o/ 09:56:48 <andythenorth> the sharp edges on the part nearest camera would need some work 09:57:28 <peter1138> have you got 32bpp extra zoom sprites? :p 09:57:30 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets <-- or there, project page 09:57:34 <planetmaker> peter1138: no 09:57:38 <andythenorth> how I get to a broken down RV behind a cliff, I have no idea :P 09:57:39 <planetmaker> or not yet :-P 09:57:49 <Celestar> planetmaker: very nice :) 09:57:50 <peter1138> andythenorth, slice the land 09:58:10 <andythenorth> tilt the camera :P 09:58:19 * Celestar tilts andythenorth 09:58:20 <andythenorth> zoom until you're on the other side of the cliff :P 09:58:28 * andythenorth tilts to work 09:58:55 <andythenorth> if you could just make the class system *less* powerful and *less* flexible while I'm away, that would be dandy 09:59:00 <andythenorth> :D 09:59:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:59:21 <Celestar> sometimes I hate the linker... 09:59:22 <Celestar> undefined reference to `cos' 10:00:28 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:01:02 <Celestar> it'S the cosine you numbnut ... 10:02:22 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:02:26 <peter1138> lol 10:02:39 <peter1138> the cursor used when dragging a vehicle is kinda... big :p 10:03:31 <peter1138> planetmaker, do any of the vehicles in the set have proper sprites? 10:03:44 <planetmaker> in CETS? Yes 10:03:53 <peter1138> which? :S 10:03:54 <planetmaker> Prussian vehicles should have. Or some of them 10:04:09 *** Celestar_ [~dax@217.110.29.210] has joined #openttd 10:04:15 <peter1138> i mean, i see purchase list sprites, but they're invisible on the viewport 10:04:44 <planetmaker> I didn't check too recently, tbh. Might currently be broken 10:05:25 *** Celestar is now known as Guest16707 10:05:25 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 10:05:49 <peter1138> the sprites that are there look good though 10:06:09 <peter1138> the steamers look a bit toy-like somehow 10:06:30 <planetmaker> to really work, this set needs newgrf v8. 10:06:43 <planetmaker> it needs more than the 128 articulated vehicles available in v7 10:06:48 <peter1138> heh 10:06:49 <planetmaker> which are all already used there ;-) 10:07:01 <peter1138> so do it ;) 10:07:10 <planetmaker> will be. will be. 10:07:29 <planetmaker> But for that NML needs an update. And for that we need to first wrap - up NML 0.2 10:07:33 <planetmaker> or so 10:07:42 <planetmaker> maybe we should branch NML 0.2 already 10:08:50 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:10:03 <peter1138> hmm, 13021 years 10:10:11 <peter1138> that game must be fun :p 10:10:50 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:10:55 *** Guest16707 [~dax@217.110.29.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:13:13 <peter1138> that was 11/11/11 11:11:11 for some people 10:13:14 <Celestar> I don't understand why my linker doesn'T find "sin" and "cos" :P 10:13:25 <peter1138> -lm ? 10:13:40 <Terkhen> planetmaker: luckily we share a file for cargo definitions and all vehicles use those defines... other sets will have a harder time dealing with any big FIRS changes 10:13:50 <Celestar> peter1138: it's there .. 10:13:51 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-044-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:14:18 <Terkhen> I don't see the point for the changes, but honestly I have not been paying much attention to the discussion 10:15:57 <Celestar> peter1138: that's what baffles me. Also if I write a simple test program, it works .. 10:18:10 <peter1138> planetmaker, ah, it's ez that's broken ;)_ 10:18:13 <Celestar> WTF. 10:18:39 <planetmaker> he 10:20:09 <z-MaTRiX> hi :) 10:20:38 <z-MaTRiX> i've bought a god of knives yesterday ;> 10:20:48 <z-MaTRiX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceramic_knife 10:20:49 <z-MaTRiX> cuts apple including seeds like butter 10:22:25 <Celestar> hm. 10:22:42 <Celestar> two adjacent points of a tile can only have a difference of 1, right? 10:22:55 <Celestar> and diagonals may or may not have 2. 10:23:55 <z-MaTRiX> well actually they can have sqrt(2) or 1 difference 10:24:14 <z-MaTRiX> if diagonal, its sqrt(2) 10:24:15 <peter1138> bah, vehicle glitches :( 10:24:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:25:08 <peter1138> Celestar, yes +-1 for adjacent, and +-2 for opposite 10:25:44 <Celestar> z-MaTRiX: what are you talking about? 10:25:57 <peter1138> something else :) 10:26:14 <z-MaTRiX> i thought you were talking about distance on a 2d grid 10:26:40 <z-MaTRiX> (like the gps function in openttd) 10:26:42 <Celestar> no? 10:27:02 <Celestar> who had that link of all the slope tiles? 10:27:35 <peter1138> it's in docs/ in your checkout 10:27:49 <Celestar> ah 10:27:51 <Celestar> good :D 10:29:34 <peter1138> z-MaTRiX, they seem expensive :p 10:30:08 <z-MaTRiX> peter1138<< they are 10 times hard and sharp as the best steel knife, the black is 20 times ;> 10:30:51 <z-MaTRiX> downside is, wou use it to pry, or it drops, it breaks 10:31:34 <peter1138> yay, glitches resolved 10:35:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:35:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: Let's use Eddi's suggestion (where's eddi?). I made a few adjustments... http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Cargo_redefinitions 10:36:04 <planetmaker> his suggestion doesn't mean to re-define classes really. Just to explain them better 10:36:16 <planetmaker> he suggests to adjust a few classes for existing cargos. Maybe 10:37:42 <peter1138> does CETS have a brake van? 10:37:56 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:40:21 <planetmaker> dunno whether it has (yet) 10:40:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: eddi's suggestion is quite fine to me - although it relies on agreeing conventions about use, and it spirals off even more new classes 10:40:33 <z-MaTRiX> s/wou/you 10:40:42 <andythenorth> the work Eddi has done all makes sense 10:40:52 <andythenorth> I just think it's solving the wrong problem :P 10:41:15 <planetmaker> is it? 10:41:20 <Celestar> halftiles are giving me the creeps 10:41:42 <peter1138> https://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez8.png 10:42:11 <peter1138> erm 10:42:14 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez8.png 10:42:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I saw your posting about intention. But... where does eddi's suggestion contradict that? 10:43:00 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B738CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:43:07 <andythenorth> I see classes as a fallback for refitting. Eddi sees them as the default. 10:43:07 <peter1138> quick, hide! 10:43:22 <andythenorth> other than that, the solution is fine 10:43:36 <andythenorth> if this is the route we take, I won't gripe about it (unless I forget) 10:43:52 <andythenorth> I would prefer a minimalist scheme, enforced by ottd code 10:44:33 <planetmaker> andythenorth: where's the difference between 'fallback' and 'default'? 10:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ... now that didn't work as i intended 10:44:45 <planetmaker> hi Eddi|zuHause 10:45:00 <planetmaker> I looked a bit extensive at your suggestion as in the wiki 10:45:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it's about the order of refitting 10:45:26 <planetmaker> I didn't dare edit your user page, but made a copy: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Cargo_redefinitions 10:45:26 <andythenorth> order? Precedence? some word I don't know 10:45:32 <planetmaker> with a few changes to some labels 10:45:35 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-245-20.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:45:37 <planetmaker> *classes for some labels 10:46:10 <andythenorth> in Eddi's scheme, I think the goal is to be able to control refitting precisely without recourse to labels. You set classes first, and only use labels where the classes are somehow 'wrong' 10:46:36 <andythenorth> in my scheme, you only get precise refitting with labels. If you don't use a label, the classes offer no warranty about precise refitting 10:46:58 <andythenorth> in my scheme, if you want precision, you *have* to use the label 10:47:21 <andythenorth> in Eddi's scheme, you rely on being able to set classes for precision 10:47:34 <andythenorth> I think the latter is impossible. 10:47:51 <andythenorth> Even more so whilst some class bits remain undefined 10:47:55 <andythenorth> and available for use 10:48:44 <andythenorth> if we locked the class bits now and said 'no more, ever' I'd be happier 10:49:24 <peter1138> i miss the old ai 10:49:35 <peter1138> it was funny watching it terraform 10:49:35 <andythenorth> reimplement it :P 10:49:51 <andythenorth> it was fun playing a game with something crazy on the loose 10:49:54 <andythenorth> actually I miss it too 10:50:07 <andythenorth> it used to be quite satisfying to buy it, and demolish everything it did 10:50:10 <peter1138> well that was that network game i played with sacro 10:50:18 <andythenorth> also, it would come along and ruin your nice plans for building a network 10:50:19 <peter1138> heh yeah 10:50:23 <peter1138> but the landscape was left in ruins 10:50:39 <andythenorth> like wales 10:50:42 <andythenorth> he 10:51:04 <peter1138> hmm, i need some normal 32bpp graphics too 10:51:07 <andythenorth> hmm 10:51:12 <peter1138> and some 32bpp EZ tiles 10:51:15 <peter1138> should be easy to find :D 10:51:23 <peter1138> well, normal 32bpp graphics, maybe not :p 10:51:39 <andythenorth> planetmaker: Eddi|zuHause the only thing I really care about classes right now is (a) decide something (b) find a way to lock the remaining class bits out 10:51:44 <andythenorth> otherwise this just all happens again 10:52:02 <peter1138> ooh, that small airport is weird 10:52:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played with the original AI in almost 15 years 10:53:52 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: what makes you add 'powederized' to the fertilizer but not to oil seeds? 10:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i actually have no real clue what "oil seeds" are 10:54:43 <planetmaker> sun flower for example 10:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but "seeds" usually implies larger grain size 10:54:47 <planetmaker> or "Raps" 10:54:50 <andythenorth> do you know what vehicles they travel in ? :P 10:54:59 <planetmaker> a typical fertilizer grain is ~3mm 10:55:18 <planetmaker> just to consider it :-) 10:55:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth: yes. bulk 10:55:44 <andythenorth> what about bags? containers? barrels? 10:55:54 <planetmaker> at least when harvested. They're not different from grain 10:56:12 <planetmaker> or rice 10:56:20 <planetmaker> or similar stuff 10:56:22 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I have proof: tankers 10:56:22 <andythenorth> http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sunflower+seed+tanker&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1247&bih=668&tbm=isch&tbnid=kqUCZgXm2cRN4M:&imgrefurl=http://www.imprintitems.com/custom/8381337&docid=AoS7qQ4plg4gCM&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.imprintitems.com/sitewide/images/products/prodbigimgs/4954789.jpg&w=600&h=600&ei=dP-8TsTSKYz6sgbLy_X1Ag&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=100&vpy=142&dur=601&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=122&ty=83&sig=114831221129984 10:56:23 <andythenorth> 4753777&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=145&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0 10:56:37 <planetmaker> :-) 10:57:01 <andythenorth> bulk, liquid, piece 10:57:09 <andythenorth> keep refrigerated for hysterical raisins 10:57:15 <andythenorth> refrigerated - I don't care either way 10:57:26 <andythenorth> lock everything else by clearing the bits in ottd code 10:57:37 <andythenorth> (pax, mail keep) 10:57:38 <Terkhen> I still don't understand why you need a change 10:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: btw. i'm not agreeing with your "cement has its own label" edit. in FIRS, the cement plant produces BDMT, not CMNT 10:58:05 <andythenorth> we need a librarian :P 10:58:11 <andythenorth> one librarian and only one 10:58:25 <andythenorth> MB has done us a great favour so far by policing classes wrt ECS 10:58:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: not every bulk building material is powderized 10:58:45 <andythenorth> 'community consensus' on this is a fallacy :P 10:58:54 <planetmaker> and cement from a cement plant as "building material" is something I rather envision packed in 50kg bags 10:59:09 <planetmaker> thus I think powderized for bdmt is wrong 10:59:20 <planetmaker> it doesn't fit most ideas I have of a bulk building material :-) 10:59:24 <andythenorth> until I draw a readymix concrete tower at the builders yard :P 10:59:29 <planetmaker> cement is only one among many 10:59:31 <andythenorth> then you have to transport cement as powder 10:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and why ENSP not oversized? 10:59:55 <planetmaker> not every machine part is over-sized 11:00:02 <planetmaker> like an electronics box or so 11:00:08 <planetmaker> only the really large parts are 11:00:08 <andythenorth> some are though 11:00:08 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 11:00:15 <planetmaker> thus same argument: it mostly doesn't fit :-) 11:00:24 <andythenorth> mining trucks? 11:00:42 <planetmaker> but is the gear box of it already over-sized? :-) 11:00:44 <andythenorth> I should draw some venn diagrams to prove this is madness :) 11:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think of ENSP more about complete machines, trucks, bulldozers 11:01:01 <planetmaker> I say it's only one part of it 11:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but that's actually a FIRS problem 11:01:09 <planetmaker> I easily ship it in containers, too 11:01:15 <andythenorth> when some idiot like me comes along with composite cargos, the only valid class(es) are the ones that *all* examples of the cargo fit 11:01:34 <andythenorth> is ENSP *always* at least piece goods? 11:01:46 <planetmaker> andythenorth: my argument is: in case of doubt don't add restrictions like 'oversized', 'refrigerated', 'powderized' or so 11:01:52 <planetmaker> just one (or more) of the base classes 11:02:07 <planetmaker> ensp is in my idea always piece goods 11:02:08 <andythenorth> planetmaker my argument is same, I'm just coming at it from a different angle 11:02:15 <andythenorth> ensp is always piece goods 11:02:19 <andythenorth> the 'extra' classes are nonsense 11:02:33 <planetmaker> but agreed. the class for ensp is a FIRS issue 11:02:44 <andythenorth> well yes and no 11:03:09 <andythenorth> we can only decide it wrt the correct spec, and the spec is ditsy 11:03:10 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: but while we're at re-assigning some classes, then we IMHO should consider hazardous, too 11:03:14 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-89-240-245-20.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:17 <planetmaker> like for chemicals and (fuel) oil 11:03:45 <planetmaker> or cola :-P 11:04:02 <andythenorth> nobody wants hazardous 11:04:06 <andythenorth> it should be masked out 11:04:24 <planetmaker> I'd not mind that either 11:04:28 <planetmaker> But not leave and not use :-) 11:05:01 <andythenorth> mask it out 11:05:08 <andythenorth> horrible hard coded cruft in ottd :P 11:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: then "hazardous" is the opposite of andythenorth's "clean" 11:05:32 <andythenorth> "this class was a mistake, and ottd wil prevent it being used" 11:06:25 <andythenorth> "this bit is not available for use, and ottd will prevent it being used" 11:06:43 <planetmaker> I think "not hazardous" is not the same as "clean" 11:06:46 <Celestar> meh. 11:07:04 <Celestar> hardly possible to store halftile-cliffs in the slope byte. 11:07:17 <planetmaker> hazardous goes with the orange plate and black numbers to identify the exact hazard on the transport vehicles 11:07:56 <andythenorth> at ottd scale it's useless ;) 11:08:21 <andythenorth> the only interesting use I can think of is setting things like vehicle speed against it 11:08:30 <andythenorth> which is not a valid case for a refit class 11:10:29 <andythenorth> hmm 11:10:36 <andythenorth> I don't understand wally's suggestion at all 11:13:11 <appe> i think i found a bug 11:13:20 <appe> (yesterday) 11:13:42 <peter1138> surely not 11:13:48 <appe> using the maglev set on a normal map, and that frond-to-end fast maglev train (the white one, cant remember the name) 11:14:29 <appe> when adding carts, the carts was created on a new row underneath the empty train 11:14:46 <appe> ill come back with a save this afternoon 11:15:27 <Celestar> I don't understand ... when are halftiles stored in the slope? 11:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> when a diagonal rail tile is built on a diagonal slope 11:16:42 <Celestar> hm. 11:16:47 <Celestar> at least not in michi's branch :P 11:18:38 <Celestar> slope seems always 0x1b, no matter whether there are tracks on it or not. 11:18:44 <Celestar> or is that not used for steep slopes? 11:18:52 <peter1138> it's not stored in the slope 11:19:13 <peter1138> the foundations and halftiles are implicit based on the track pieces on it 11:19:25 <Celestar> so what do we use those 3 high bits for in slope? 11:19:31 <peter1138> we don't 11:19:40 <peter1138> it's a byte because you can't have 5 bit variables 11:20:06 <peter1138> oh 11:20:09 <peter1138> hmm 11:20:12 <peter1138> right 11:20:14 <peter1138> i'm wrong :)D 11:20:18 <peter1138> :D even 11:20:34 <Celestar> so er ... 11:20:41 <Celestar> SLOPE_HALFTILE is used for what? :P 11:22:09 <Celestar> that is some weird crap :P 11:22:49 <peter1138> it's used all over the place 11:23:00 <peter1138> just via accessors 11:23:17 <Celestar> yeah. 11:23:22 <Celestar> but I can't see it being set :P 11:24:24 <peter1138> in landscape.cpp 11:25:00 <peter1138> in ApplyFoundationToSlope 11:25:45 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 11:25:51 <Celestar> aah 11:26:05 <Celestar> it doesn't seem to be stored. 11:26:10 <Celestar> just computed on the fly? 11:26:26 <peter1138> yes, all foundations are 11:26:42 <Celestar> I was just wondering why I didn't see it in the map array. 11:27:12 <Celestar> still no idea how to store cliffs in halftiles 11:27:17 <peter1138> the foundations and halftiles are implicit based on the track pieces on it < yeah ;) 11:28:45 <Celestar> ...more can of worms 11:30:09 * Arafangion is almost asleep. 11:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: an MP_CLEAR for the lower half, and an MP_CLEAR for the upper half 11:31:04 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:31:18 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: MP_HALFTILE_CLEAR ? 11:31:43 <andythenorth> worms all over the place 11:31:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: the upper one should have some information on which half it applies, the lower one can be a full tile 11:32:47 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe you need a halftile also for the lower part, to decide whether to show grass or "underground" in a "sliced" view 11:34:36 <V453000> hm, where is the DB set? :) 11 11 11 already 11:34:51 <andythenorth> he got distracted by some nonsense about classes :P 11:35:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you got an MB reply ;) 11:35:30 <peter1138> yeah, splitting tiles for real is... hmm... ugh 11:37:11 <Celestar> peter1138: ugly? :P 11:37:41 <peter1138> yeah 11:38:07 <peter1138> remove the feature! ;) 11:38:27 <peter1138> or stick with implicit foundations... 11:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: not coming 11:38:47 <V453000> :( 11:38:53 <V453000> how come? 11:39:02 <Celestar> peter1138: the foundations are ok. 11:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: major ECS overhaul to come, and ongoing cargo class discussion 11:39:14 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm wondering about having cliffs run through "halftiles" 11:39:27 <V453000> yeah, I have been watching that :D 11:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: both threaten the durability of the set, so release has been postponed until both have been resolved 11:40:14 <V453000> yeah, wise :) 11:40:23 <peter1138> Celestar, oof 11:40:27 <planetmaker> very wise 11:41:03 <peter1138> will it be on bananas? :p 11:41:17 <Celestar> peter1138: oof? 11:41:31 <peter1138> Celestar, making work for yourself :) 11:41:33 <Celestar> is that an exclamation or an acronym I do not undetrstand :P 11:41:41 <peter1138> the former ::) 11:41:45 <peter1138> ooh, 4 eyes 11:41:59 <Celestar> peter1138: I think it should be skipped at first, since erm ... you'd need to store the (4 bits) of height difference somewhere 11:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> only rectangular cliffs? sounds weird 11:46:39 <peter1138> :) 11:46:47 <peter1138> ok 11:46:52 <peter1138> should i work on getting this EZ patch in? 11:47:00 <peter1138> or should i declare it an unwanted experiment? 11:48:02 <peter1138> Quit 'OpenTTD' 11:48:05 <peter1138> ^ why is that in quotes? 11:48:20 <michi_cc> peter1138: As ez8.png really looks good, I'd say EZ is definitely wanted 11:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a method to provide EZ-sprites in a newgrf 11:49:01 <Arafangion> peter1138: I always thought that was because you only think you're playing a game. 11:50:04 <peter1138> Arafangion, that would be 'Quit' OpenTTD :) 11:50:10 <planetmaker> peter1138: EZ certainly is one of the most-asked-for extensions 11:50:14 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, does it? 11:50:30 <Arafangion> peter1138: Not if you're an existiantalist. :) 11:50:51 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Is the png+tar route not enough? (PNG can be 8 bit as well :) 11:51:03 <michi_cc> peter1138: My mini-split of last night: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/ez 11:51:04 <peter1138> michi_cc, that is indeed my thinking :) 11:51:23 <andythenorth> peter1138: include include! my eyes are getting odl 11:51:34 <michi_cc> Especially as a single GRF sprite is limited to 64kb which makes it a problem for high zoom-ins. 11:51:49 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah I know. 11:52:11 <planetmaker> yes, iirc the tar route is enough. It needs a unique naming scheme (bpp, zoom-level). Dunno how that is currently handled 11:52:51 <peter1138> certainly needs more work, 32bpp isn't zoomed in 11:53:02 <peter1138> so all the existing 32bpp stuff won't work at the moment 11:53:11 <peter1138> i do ask myself *what* existing 32bpp stuff, to be honest 11:53:41 <Yexo> peter1138: almost none 11:53:52 <Yexo> most of the existing 32bpp stuff is only zoomed in 11:54:06 <michi_cc> There's only a bunch of totally mismatched sprites. 11:54:15 <andythenorth> screw 32bpp 11:54:20 <peter1138> is there a reason to provide pre-scaled graphics rather than just the zoomed in sprites? 11:54:27 <andythenorth> no 11:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: details? 11:55:02 <peter1138> zoom in if you want details? :) 11:55:09 <andythenorth> life is too short :P 11:55:30 <andythenorth> it's an ethical issue, if people have *that* much time to waste drawing pixels, they should do something useful 11:56:54 <Terkhen> :P 11:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i mean between the zoomed-in and zoomed-out graphics, some details must be emphasised in a different way, to still be visible 11:57:11 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, i know what you mean 11:57:21 <peter1138> commonly done for icons 11:59:10 <michi_cc> I'd say pre-scaled graphics are probably better for 8bpp exactly for the reason Eddi said. 12:00:12 <peter1138> kk 12:05:41 <planetmaker> some wishes are easy to fulfill: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57350&p=979806#p979806 :-) 12:06:05 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez6.png < scale2x (twice) looks bad 12:06:17 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez7.png < 32bpp-ez sprites look bad 12:06:23 <peter1138> but otherwise... heh 12:06:50 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 12:07:42 <planetmaker> I've seen worse than the scale2x 12:09:04 <michi_cc> peter1138: Tried hq2x or hq4x respectively? 12:09:38 <peter1138> no 12:09:43 <peter1138> i looked at hq4x 12:09:50 <peter1138> didn't get around to integrating it 12:09:57 <peter1138> it's a nasty ol' block of code i have to say 12:10:26 <andythenorth> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez7.png < /me likes (apart from the buses) 12:10:47 <peter1138> the buses are made for the new cc algorithm 12:11:44 <planetmaker> hm, could you image the exact same scene with the different solutions? 12:12:01 <michi_cc> peter1138: Can you upload your current version? 12:12:27 <z-MaTRiX> haha i have found an optical illusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_Wave 12:12:44 <z-MaTRiX> stare at the travelling wave in one place 12:12:52 <z-MaTRiX> for a few minutes 12:12:56 <z-MaTRiX> then look at the text above 12:13:15 <z-MaTRiX> (above Frequency dispersion in groups of gravity waves on the surface of deep water. The red dot moves with the phase velocity, and the green dots propagate with the group velocity.) 12:23:27 <Celestar> michi_cc: have you any bright ideas about half-tile cliffs? :P 12:24:02 <michi_cc> I have not been thinking about half-tile cliffs :) 12:25:29 <Celestar> michi_cc: I've put the corner of the north tile, the slope and the min height into the Tile struct 12:27:32 <Celestar> michi_cc: which theoretically enables cliffs just nicely .... 12:27:37 <Celestar> michi_cc: apart from some quirks 12:28:16 <Celestar> michi_cc: Eddi|zuHause's suggest was to have two MP_CLEAR (or maybe two MP_HALF, or one MP_CLEAR + MP_HALF) at a single tile. 12:29:34 <peter1138> michi_cc, it's up. still some issues with some child sprites 12:29:50 <peter1138> e.g the animated lift 12:31:21 <Celestar> michi_cc: http://www.dropmocks.com/mhzm- 12:53:50 <Celestar> now that was a convo killer. 12:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> we have the weirdest convo killers around here :p 12:55:08 <Celestar> lol 12:55:12 <MNIM> Celestar: how did you do that? 12:55:32 <Celestar> hack the code? :P 12:55:33 * Arafangion chuckles. 12:55:42 <Arafangion> Eddi|zuHause: You don't. :) 12:55:49 <Arafangion> Eddi|zuHause: And that's a VERY good thing. 12:56:52 <MNIM> I got that, celestar, just wondering how it works? 12:57:46 <Celestar> MNIM: storing the slopes individually per tile 12:58:06 <Arafangion> Celestar: Can you make that track higher, such that the track behind is *completely* obscured? 12:59:04 <MNIM> So you get a landscape like in RCT, Cele? 12:59:38 * Arafangion has no idea what RCT, Cele is like. 12:59:50 <Celestar> Arafangion: yes 12:59:55 <Celestar> wtf is RCT 13:00:24 <MNIM> RollerCoaster Tycoon? 13:00:37 <Celestar> no idea .... 13:00:44 * Arafangion has never played that. 13:00:48 <MNIM> 0-o 13:01:03 <MNIM> well, what I mean is that you can get straight cliffs between tiles 13:01:20 <MNIM> like in railroad tycoon, if you do know that one :P 13:01:34 <Celestar> i do.... 13:01:45 <Arafangion> MNIM: I've never played that either. :) 13:02:10 <MNIM> you've heard of it at least? 13:02:11 <Arafangion> I've played TTD, and OpenTTD. That's it, the only other simulation games I've played are... SimCity and SimAnt. 13:02:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the railroad tycoon that i played had no such thing as cliffs. or landscaping, for that matter 13:02:44 <Celestar> same .... 13:02:56 <MNIM> ehh, sorry, my bad 13:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> actually i wonder where i put it... 13:03:00 <MNIM> I meant locomotion 13:07:47 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: where you put what? 13:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> railroad tycoon 13:09:20 <Terkhen> who is going to code a new simearth for me? 13:09:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i actually fear it got lost due to virus infection 13:10:06 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the DOS version was available free for a bit 13:10:14 <andythenorth> it's not WINE compatible for me though :( 13:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> use dosbox? 13:10:33 <andythenorth> possibly 13:10:44 <andythenorth> or....work on ottd :P 13:11:08 <andythenorth> I like railroad tycoon, but I often wished it was TTD 13:11:19 <andythenorth> ^ applies to RT 1, 2 and 3 13:11:33 <andythenorth> did you figure classes yet? :P 13:11:39 <andythenorth> awaiting reply from MB? 13:16:27 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-123-30.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 13:17:39 <michi_cc> peter1138: hq4x isn't really pretty: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/hq4x.png 13:17:59 <peter1138> ugh 13:18:03 <peter1138> yeah 13:18:17 <peter1138> i maintain that simple upscaling works 13:18:23 <appe> haha 13:18:23 <appe> :D 13:18:25 <peter1138> but there's there issue of mixing tile edges 13:19:52 <andythenorth> upscaling works 13:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> tile borders are tricky when you need to consider adjacent pixels for the scaling 13:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should treat "adjacent pixel == transparent => use own pixel colour for calculation" 13:22:54 <Celestar> MNIM: you mean this? http://www.dropmocks.com/mh3Xz 13:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and optimize the hq-filter for 30° lines, instead of 45° lines, which hardly ever occur 13:24:40 <peter1138> neither do 30° lines? 13:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 26.5° 13:26:35 <Celestar> so next step would be to draw "foundations" 13:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=28384 <-- the ancient double size filter patch 13:26:49 <Eddi|zuHause> but that one did it on the output buffer 13:26:49 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not per sprite 13:27:06 <peter1138> 2006... :D 13:27:10 <Celestar> lol :D 13:27:30 <peter1138> yeah 13:27:36 <peter1138> that does actually look really good 13:27:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i did say "ancient" 13:28:03 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, but i remember it 13:28:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i played with it extensively 13:28:49 <peter1138> r7134 :D 13:29:08 <Eddi|zuHause> in the MiniIN age :) 13:30:06 <Celestar> hmmm. 13:30:06 <peter1138> it's not that big 13:30:24 <peter1138> probably possible to pick out the algorithm to apply it to sprites 13:30:34 <Celestar> Foundations are fundamentally different from cliffs. 13:30:47 <peter1138> yes 13:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> MP_FOUNDATION? 13:31:09 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah. considering it seriously. 13:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> MP_CLEAR => MP_FOUNDATION => MP_RAIL 13:31:48 <Celestar> still.... 13:33:43 <Celestar> each tile, when drawn, has to take into account adjacent tiles. 13:34:09 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:34:53 <Celestar> the question is, how often is DrawTile stuff called compared to the normal tile loop 13:34:55 <peter1138> i think just simple scaling is good initially 13:35:11 <peter1138> later on other scaling could be done 13:35:20 <peter1138> but it needs more tweaking of blitter encode functions 13:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> MP_FOUNDATION caches which sprite to draw? then no adjacent tile info needed 13:37:10 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah. that was my line of thinking as well. 13:37:21 <peter1138> could cache the foundation, yeah 13:40:24 <Celestar> shouldn't be difficult either. 13:40:34 <Celestar> but first thing I need is some UI to make cliffs. 13:40:43 <Celestar> because manually setting bits in tiles is getting slightly annoying. 13:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> haha. CTRL+terraform is already taken, though 13:41:19 <Celestar> well 13:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> for diagonal levelling 13:41:23 <Celestar> temporarliy :P 13:41:48 <Celestar> and there's still the option to make more buttons :P 13:42:44 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a4d5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:45:47 <peter1138> hmm, these filters require palette information :( 13:46:20 <peter1138> there's a 256KB colour lookup table 13:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> apply the filter after recolouring? 13:46:47 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's too late 13:47:25 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-212-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:53:09 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-109-240-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:53:39 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:54:10 <Celestar> hm. 13:55:38 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:55:38 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:08 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, the sprites are scaled just as they're loaded, before they're put into the sprite cache 13:59:18 <peter1138> so way before palette information exists 13:59:25 <peter1138> well 13:59:35 <peter1138> i suppose i could try applying it anyway 13:59:47 *** rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-204-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:15 <Eddi|zuHause> "palette" as in "DOS"/"windows"? 14:00:25 <peter1138> palette as in rgb values 14:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 14:00:51 <peter1138> actually it doesn't need them for the scaling, just to fill the lookup table 14:01:40 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:29 *** rhaeder1 [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-212-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:30 *** Snail__ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:23 *** SileneDioica [~chatzilla@p5DDA4CA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:07:38 <SileneDioica> hello 14:08:00 <SileneDioica> i have a question 14:08:38 <SileneDioica> how do i get oil from a ship on a train? 14:09:00 <SileneDioica> and what is an aqueduct for? 14:09:09 <SileneDioica> (ok i know that's 2 questions...) 14:10:25 <Terkhen> hi SileneDioica 14:10:30 <Terkhen> for the first question check: http://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service 14:10:39 <Terkhen> and an aqueduct is a "bridge" for ships IIRC 14:11:20 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:36 <SileneDioica> thank you Terkhen 14:11:50 <Terkhen> np 14:14:23 <Celestar> Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_OBJECT)' failed. 14:14:24 <Belugas> hello 14:14:27 <Belugas> FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 14:14:28 <Celestar> gnah 14:14:49 <Celestar> I gotta fix the map before anything else loads. 14:15:19 <Celestar> the question is .. how. 14:16:04 <Terkhen> happy friday Belugas :) 14:16:40 <Celestar> AfterLoadGame happens too late ffs 14:17:17 <peter1138> heh 14:23:46 <Celestar> ok help. 14:24:20 <Celestar> currently, type and height are stored in one chunk. the new version contains only the type in the same chunk. 14:24:40 <Celestar> when loading an old version, I have to rip apart type an height and put it into the right places. 14:24:52 <Celestar> where do I put this in. AfterLoadGame is clearly too late ... 14:26:09 <Terkhen> saveload code is too confusing :) 14:26:20 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-183.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:26:37 <Celestar> nah it's not imho. 14:26:39 <Terkhen> my first guess would be at the static void LOAD_XXXX function for the map, but I always get it wrong at the first try 14:26:48 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:26:51 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 14:27:20 <Celestar> the problem is the Load_MAPSOMETHING function doesn't know which version is being loaded, does it? 14:28:01 <Terkhen> it does, check Load_INDY at industry_sl 14:28:16 <Terkhen> that's how I did it for converting old persistent storages 14:28:26 <Celestar> oh. 14:30:04 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-73.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:32:25 <Celestar> wooo 14:32:25 <Celestar> works 14:32:54 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:18e:fef1:8c1c:4a10] has joined #openttd 14:32:57 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:33:19 <Terkhen> :) 14:39:09 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-044-082.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:58 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-054-150.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:45:17 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 14:47:16 <peter1138> bah, it won't work 14:48:12 <Celestar> what doesn't ? 14:49:06 <andythenorth> it 14:49:10 <andythenorth> obviously 14:49:11 <andythenorth> :P 14:49:16 <planetmaker> quite ;-) 14:54:37 <peter1138> this vector scaler :) 14:54:41 <peter1138> well "vector" 14:56:00 *** SileneDioica [~chatzilla@p5DDA4CA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 14:57:18 <Belugas> thanks Terkhen, but i'll wait until friday is done and gone ;) 14:57:55 <peter1138> oh, that's better 14:57:59 <peter1138> a ! in the wrong place :p 14:59:02 <peter1138> looks weird though 14:59:07 <Celestar> well 14:59:17 <Celestar> saveload still has some hiccups 14:59:40 <Celestar> but I gotta run :D 14:59:41 <Celestar> cya 14:59:44 *** Celestar [~dax@217.110.29.210] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:59:47 *** TrueBrain [~patric@145.118.73.176] has joined #openttd 15:02:22 <Terkhen> :) 15:03:11 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez9.png 15:03:56 <peter1138> "different" 15:05:56 <Eddi|zuHause> looks "impressionistic"... 15:06:00 <peter1138> yeah 15:06:10 <peter1138> i was thinking "gimpressionist" in that ;) 15:06:13 <peter1138> *fact 15:06:26 <Elukka> i rather like the simple slightly pixelated one 15:06:27 <V453000> how is that re-drawn? 15:06:53 <peter1138> V453000, algorithms 15:07:10 <V453000> quite interesting, not a bad result for something automated I guess 15:07:18 <peter1138> indeed 15:07:30 <Elukka> photoshop and other graphics programs make it look quite good at 2x 15:07:39 <peter1138> guessing from information that isn't there 15:08:27 <V453000> I consider extra zoom quite useless, but good job I would say :) 15:08:46 <V453000> does it take a lot of processing power? 15:09:01 <V453000> compared to ... 1000 trains? 15:09:04 <peter1138> not noticable 15:09:10 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/4_abteilwagen.png 15:09:11 <peter1138> it's scaled then cached 15:09:16 <Elukka> enlarge sprite at... 300% maybe? looks good to me 15:09:21 <Elukka> *enlarged 15:09:52 <V453000> dont know I always hated enlarging images :) 15:09:54 <andythenorth> photostrop-pressionistic :P 15:10:06 <andythenorth> simple pixel enlargement works for me :P 15:10:12 <andythenorth> that's how I draw the damn things anyway 15:10:14 <Elukka> same 15:10:30 <Elukka> i don't think it does anything more fancy than just making every pixel double its original size 15:10:33 <andythenorth> quite often in the game I hit 'cmd+' expecting it to get bigger :P 15:10:41 <Elukka> you can still see the original pixels in that pic 15:10:45 <andythenorth> umm 15:10:51 <andythenorth> could we include a pixel editor in the game? 15:10:54 <Elukka> there's no impressionistic blur :P 15:11:05 <peter1138> well it's still 8bpp ;) 15:11:07 <andythenorth> and maybe link grfcodec :P 15:11:10 <V453000> :D what for andy? Realtime sprite drawing? :D 15:11:13 <andythenorth> yup 15:11:23 * andythenorth has been there, done that, got the xml t-shirt 15:11:23 <V453000> might be useful :D 15:11:27 <peter1138> andythenorth, you're sick 15:11:32 <V453000> :) 15:11:35 <andythenorth> 'live editing of copy right inside your flash game' 15:11:38 <andythenorth> bad bad bad 15:11:50 <andythenorth> spend three months writing a content management system and inline editor 15:12:00 <andythenorth> or spend 1 week editing copy in xml docs by hand 15:12:07 <andythenorth> 'but think of the time saved' 15:12:41 <andythenorth> hmm 15:12:58 <andythenorth> realtime editing of cargo classes *in the game* 15:13:01 <andythenorth> problem solved :o 15:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> http://xkcd.com/974/ 15:13:13 <V453000> dont know I just draw sprites so far, no coding, and that already takes so much time that I am unsure whether coding is going to be anyhow crucially long in compare to that 15:13:14 <andythenorth> no seriously, just let the user reassign classes at will in game 15:13:24 <peter1138> hmm 15:13:24 <andythenorth> permanent fallback 15:13:25 <peter1138> ok 15:13:34 <peter1138> using the sprite aligner tool messes things up :D 15:13:50 <andythenorth> remove it ;) 15:13:52 <andythenorth> wait 15:13:55 <andythenorth> no don't! 15:14:01 <peter1138> cos the aligner doesn't know that sprites are gui or viewport 15:17:33 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:22:58 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> how's that relevant? 15:39:44 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd 15:54:47 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:10:29 <Belugas> ooo.... it's 11:11, the 11/11/11 and i'm still alive! 16:10:52 <Belugas> as some one said once, it's just a number... 16:11:04 <Rubidium> now we only have to wait for 11/11/11 11:11:11.1111 -11 16:11:29 <andythenorth> is that dec or hex? :P 16:11:38 <andythenorth> @calc 11/11/11 11:11:11.1111 -11 16:11:38 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1) 16:11:41 <andythenorth> ho 16:19:03 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:26 <peter1138> 1111 milliseconds precisely :D 16:19:39 <peter1138> lol 16:19:39 <peter1138> no 16:19:43 <andythenorth> which timeszone? 16:19:46 <andythenorth> -s 16:19:46 <peter1138> 111.1 milliseconds 16:19:48 <peter1138> -11 16:19:51 <peter1138> which is...? 16:20:13 <andythenorth> meh 16:20:29 <andythenorth> canberra? 16:20:37 <andythenorth> somewhere like that 16:20:43 <andythenorth> dunno 16:20:45 <peter1138> no 16:20:48 <peter1138> -11 isn't used 16:20:51 <andythenorth> ha 16:20:58 <peter1138> there's -10 16:20:58 * andythenorth is too lazy to google 16:21:03 <andythenorth> why google when you guess? 16:21:29 <Rubidium> UTC-11 is Samoa/Midway 16:22:48 <peter1138> cool cool 16:26:58 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 16:27:17 *** Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd 16:27:40 <Belugas> Samoa...samosa... hungry 16:36:05 <Belugas> so...next big date is wht? 12/12/12 at 12:12:12? or 13/12/11 at...10:09:08? 16:42:06 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE0026f3a304e2-CM0026f3a304de.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 16:42:33 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:43:45 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.225.29.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 16:44:50 <peter1138> hehe 16:45:06 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez10real.png 16:45:15 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez10fake.png 16:49:20 <andythenorth> Belugas: I thought my baby might get born today 16:49:45 <andythenorth> if not 11(r) then maybe 15.14 on 13/12/11 16:50:00 <Belugas> he??? another one??? 16:50:05 <Belugas> or not the same baby... 16:50:09 <Belugas> confusion 16:50:21 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 16:50:52 <andythenorth> another one :P 16:51:35 <Belugas> wow... crazy rabbit 16:51:43 <Belugas> my sincere ... condoleances ;) 16:51:46 <Belugas> no...joke... 16:51:49 <Belugas> happy for ou! 16:51:52 <Belugas> you 16:52:05 <Belugas> boy / girl? 16:52:17 <peter1138> oh dear 16:52:36 <peter1138> just spotted usb keys in my pocket 16:54:23 <peter1138> andythenorth is a rabbit :D 16:54:41 <andythenorth> condolences? :P 16:54:47 * Mazur is a little airplane. 16:55:07 <andythenorth> Belugas: the boy / girl situation is a bit schrodinger at the moment 16:55:13 <andythenorth> it's presumably one or the other 16:56:01 <peter1138> OpenTTD already knows how many tiles it takes to bring a train to a stop, it is calculated every time you press the stop button to stop a train. 16:56:03 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:05 <peter1138> BZZT! 16:57:07 <peter1138> i suppose it is possible to calculate it 16:57:22 <peter1138> but you need to know which route you're taking, and things like slopes... 16:58:45 *** ptr [~peter@c213-89-142-179.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 16:59:27 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:03:48 <andythenorth> what does this actually mean? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=979797#p979797 17:04:33 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:08 <peter1138> the last question? lolwut? 17:06:29 <peter1138> i *think* he's saying that it should all be class-based 17:12:20 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 17:17:33 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:20 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:21:57 <peter1138> hmm, did field fences get changed? 17:22:15 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 17:22:37 <peter1138> hmm, yes 17:22:46 <peter1138> they're ... not right :( 17:22:58 <peter1138> hmm, only on steep slopes 17:24:12 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fences.png 17:26:42 <Yexo> peter1138: that's one of the new tables with magic values 17:26:45 <Yexo> I'll fix that 17:26:48 <dihedral> yikes 17:26:52 <andythenorth> lolwut indeed. Seems to be a proposal for a whole new layer of crap 17:27:11 <andythenorth> which is somehow both easier, simpler , more powerful than what we have now 17:27:21 <andythenorth> I'll buy that for a dollar :P 17:27:29 <Yexo> anybody knows of a good gui for git under windows? 17:28:18 <dihedral> tortoise git? 17:28:43 <dihedral> people at work use it 17:30:10 *** Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:40 <Yexo> any experience with it? I've used gitgui a few years ago 17:33:00 <dihedral> it's suppose to be very similar with tortoise svn 17:33:06 <dihedral> but i never used the git one 17:33:18 <dihedral> it basically integrates into windows explorer 17:33:28 <dihedral> gives you extra options in the context menu 17:33:51 <dihedral> and has overlay icons in order to display a files / folders status 17:34:08 <dihedral> anyway - i am off for today - heading home ;-) 17:34:10 <dihedral> have a nice evening 17:39:56 <michi_cc> Yexo: I'd stay with git gui/gitk. Might not be the best looking GUI, but it does what you want. Offhand for windows I think there's also git-cola and SmartGit (there are some others but I don' think they have windows binaries). 17:41:00 <Yexo> I've also found gitextensions, which has a msvc plugin 17:42:38 <michi_cc> For VS there's also http://gitscc.codeplex.com/ 17:43:28 <Yexo> perhaps I should just stay on the commandline 17:45:00 <andythenorth> command line ftw 17:45:54 <michi_cc> For viewing the commit graph gitk is clearly superior to command line "git log". The only thing I additional use is git gui [citool] because staging individual hunks and lines there is easier than the "git add -i" way. 17:45:58 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-101-48-130.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 17:54:14 *** tty234 [telex@anapnea.net] has joined #openttd 17:56:34 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:56:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:00:22 <appe> im bored. 18:00:43 *** hanf [~Klaus@host-2-101-48-130.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23188 /trunk/src/table/clear_land.h: -Fix (r23168): fences on steep slopes were broken 18:05:16 <peter1138> gitg/giggle might be handy... oh, but not on windows .hmm. 18:10:55 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:11:21 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:15:59 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-011-101.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:32 <appe> http://gyazo.com/a2bd478a116c7a6536b473cd8bb1165c 18:16:33 <appe> eeh. 18:17:18 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:23:19 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-183.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:29 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db1a4d5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 18:25:36 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:26:10 <peter1138> what about it? 18:26:21 <peter1138> TaI's scrabble mode :D 18:31:18 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:32:28 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:37:33 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23189 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 49 changes by VoyagerOne 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changes by habell 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: finnish - 3 changes by jpx_ 18:45:02 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: french - 31 changes by Muxy 18:45:28 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 18:47:01 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:47:19 <Wolf01> evening 18:48:36 *** Priski [priski@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 18:48:43 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 18:54:03 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:55:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:58:10 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 18:58:10 <Snail_> hi 18:58:22 <Snail_> speaking about translations, I just corrected one Italian string 18:58:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23190 /trunk/src/3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqbaselib.cpp: -Fix: compile error due to Squirrel define messing up another included file 19:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 minute before the compile run? :) 19:01:23 <Snail_> heh, I only checked and discovered it now :) 19:01:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nah, a massive 13 seconds! 19:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: sorry, didn't mean you 19:03:18 <Snail_> I see, no prob 19:12:39 * andythenorth hmmms 19:14:04 <andythenorth> classes have disappeared into the usual black whole of 'wtf is the spec' 19:14:14 <andythenorth> maybe I should write some nfo instead :) 19:17:03 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:18:17 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:27:10 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest16760 19:27:10 *** Guest16760 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:10 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:27:10 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 19:28:42 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest16761 19:28:42 *** Guest16761 [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:42 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:28:42 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 19:29:47 *** Devroush|3 [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:32:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:33:07 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has left #openttd [] 19:34:43 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:36:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:40:03 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:43:20 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 19:46:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23191 /trunk/src/table/palettes.h: -Fix: GCC 4.7 compilation warnings related to narrowing in palettes 19:46:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:49:04 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:08 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-123-30.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:55:33 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:56:08 <z-MaTRiX> peter1138<< i have cut apples with the ceramic knife, straight cuts will not brown ;> 19:56:39 <andythenorth> hmm 19:56:45 <andythenorth> did something break cargo FF? 19:56:47 * andythenorth wonders 19:57:29 <andythenorth> can't be 19:57:29 <peter1138> what do you mean? 19:57:45 <Eddi|zuHause> could be a side effect of the grfv8 stuff. but what's the exact problem you face? 19:57:48 <andythenorth> I have some vehicles that don't appear to be using the cb varact 2s I have for buy menu 19:57:50 <andythenorth> but others are 19:57:55 <andythenorth> must be an issue in my code 19:58:05 <peter1138> must be ;P 19:58:27 <andythenorth> larks 19:59:05 * andythenorth wishes apple would invent perpetual battery 19:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone thinks "underline cities in minimap/viewport/town list" is a useful feature? 20:00:02 <andythenorth> what would it look like? 20:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the implementation... 20:00:37 <andythenorth> hmm 20:01:00 <andythenorth> shrug :) 20:01:02 <andythenorth> also 20:01:03 <andythenorth> [2011-11-11 20:00:45] dbg: [grf] Callback 0x0x101d873d1 returned unknown/invalid result 0x0x23 20:01:09 <andythenorth> definitely my mistake :P 20:01:33 <Eddi|zuHause> are you using grfv8 stuff yet? 20:01:54 <andythenorth> nope 20:02:12 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.86.104] has joined #openttd 20:02:19 <andythenorth> it's clearly some idiocy by me 20:02:53 *** lobstarooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:03:04 <Eddi|zuHause> has the "cb36 with GOOD as first refittable" problem been solved with grfv8? 20:03:16 <__ln___> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/11/10/nazi_star_trek_episode_broadcast_in_germany/ 20:03:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not afaik 20:10:11 <Alberth> 0x0x23 ? 20:13:01 <andythenorth> I'm missing something 20:13:02 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/736/ 20:13:08 <andythenorth> I can't see what 20:13:15 <andythenorth> cb36 appears to be working as expected 20:17:24 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-183.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:18:35 <andythenorth> cb23 can't be broken because other vehicles show it ok 20:18:37 <andythenorth> grr 20:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't help you there 20:21:23 <Eddi|zuHause> the last time i touched cb23, i immediately triggered its limits... 20:21:43 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:23:42 <andythenorth> it seems to hate my use of a non D0 text 20:25:08 <andythenorth> B4 8C as return value gives me text B4 DC? 20:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought it's only D0..D3, how can DC be valid then? 20:26:19 <andythenorth> hmm 20:26:26 <andythenorth> it used to be 20:26:42 <andythenorth> I don't have a specific rev, but this text works with my YACD binary 20:26:52 <andythenorth> I can figure that out in a minute I guess 20:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i am mixing up stuff 20:26:56 * andythenorth -> cooking 20:27:02 *** lobstarooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't ever used NFO string-ids 20:27:12 <andythenorth> D0 works, DC doesn't 20:27:26 <andythenorth> maybe I misread spec 20:27:29 <andythenorth> it used to work 20:27:47 <andythenorth> maybe I was relying on a bug 20:28:25 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-188-182.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:29:08 <andythenorth> "As of r1908, text IDs D100..D3FF may also be returned." 20:29:13 <andythenorth> DC not valid :P 20:30:47 * andythenorth was relying a bug 20:30:49 <andythenorth> how naughty 20:33:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-85-183.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:42:02 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-110-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:43:53 *** blotek [~blotek@adko67.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 20:45:28 *** lobstaro0o [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:50:38 *** lobstaroooo [~michielbr@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:52:51 <andythenorth> stupid capacity display (when mail is first refit) :\ 21:10:03 <appe> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/BR_brake_van_at_Colne_Valley_Railway_2.jpg 21:10:06 <appe> so cute :) 21:12:09 <appe> __ln___: the ignorance in germany is appalling.. 21:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: what makes you reach that conclusion? 21:18:40 <__ln___> appe: that's right, any unseen star trek episode contributes to an individual's ignorance. 21:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: i must have loads of ignorance than, because i have seen hardly any TOS episode 21:19:28 <__ln___> (but i would also like to hear the answer to what Eddi asked) 21:20:46 <__ln___> Eddi|zuHause: yes... tbh, i have only seen 2 seasons of TOS myself. 21:21:48 <__ln___> and those i watched during this summer/autumn 21:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen maybe half a dozen episodes... 21:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> plus the movies, of course 21:23:29 *** Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] 21:24:32 <peter1138> so are you going to reserve paths through signals? 21:26:53 *** bd97 [d5372bd7@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:27:41 <peter1138> cool cool 21:27:45 <peter1138> TOS is awesome :D 21:27:55 <peter1138> been ages since i watched any 21:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe michi_cc has already some preliminary code regarding the matter 21:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> he's the new "i have a patch for that" guy :) 21:28:33 <andythenorth> hmm 21:28:44 <andythenorth> what's the maximum HP I can return to an RV with cb36? 21:28:50 <andythenorth> iirc it's byte sized 21:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> how can HP be byte sized? 21:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> how are you making engines with 6000HP then? 21:29:52 <peter1138> trains are not rvs 21:29:59 <peter1138> it's not particularly unified :( 21:30:02 <andythenorth> RVs have hp/10 21:30:10 <andythenorth> for, no doubt, hysterical raisins 21:30:12 <peter1138> presumably 2550 is the max 21:30:17 <andythenorth> it's always such fun setting props :) 21:30:17 <peter1138> ttdpatch reasons 21:30:24 <andythenorth> silly old patch :) 21:30:33 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:30:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i did propose unifying of such units for grfv8 21:30:44 <peter1138> would be nice to make all the common properties... er.. common 21:30:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: propose louder :P 21:31:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i got an answer like "if you use nml, it doesn't matter anyway" 21:32:35 <andythenorth> I'm not using nml 21:32:40 <andythenorth> nor am I planning to 21:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and frosch's answer of "we cannot change the size of variables", which means we need to make new ones anyway, so unrelated to grfv8 21:32:54 <andythenorth> that's a good reason 21:34:23 <peter1138> so how does one calculate stopping distance? :D 21:34:52 <andythenorth> s=d/t I learnt in school 21:35:01 <andythenorth> and then there's an acceleration formula 21:35:07 <andythenorth> which you turn upside down 21:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> v/100*v/100 i learned in driving school 21:35:15 <andythenorth> it was an A-level maths question 21:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> or something around that 21:35:34 <andythenorth> how do you calculate stopping distance if a driver uses variable braking? 21:35:37 <peter1138> and for trains? 21:35:47 <Eddi|zuHause> err, v/10*v/10 21:36:01 <andythenorth> http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=stopping+distance+calculator+train&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 21:36:06 <andythenorth> lmgtfy 21:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so for 100km/h you get 100m 21:36:51 <peter1138> how many tiles is 100m? 21:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt a train can do that :p 21:37:16 <andythenorth> http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/transport_transportation_shipping/3568429-bremsrechnung.html 21:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: in CETS, a tile is 32m 21:38:42 <michi_cc> I still have http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/advance_signals_v2.patch + http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/advance_slowdown_hack.diff lying about, that was a very tentative step into proper braking. But it's both broken and more about the signals and not the braking. 21:39:44 <peter1138> well, reserve up to the next signal after the breaking distance 21:39:52 <peter1138> so it's still about signals 21:39:58 <peter1138> and screw the people not using path signals 21:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, people using block signals will just reserve one tile at a time, on each vehicle_enter_tile 21:41:48 <peter1138> also do you need things like braking properties 21:42:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if that tile is a signal, the state is checked whether red or green, if green, it is forced to green, all other signals in the block get red, as if a train were in the block 21:42:43 <Eddi|zuHause> braking properties could be filled with default values based on weight 21:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and newgrfs get properties to override that 21:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> with "realistic" values 21:43:21 <peter1138> i love how currently it's just the inverse of engine power :p 21:43:25 <andythenorth> I like the quick stop :) 21:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there will still be the "emergency stop" mode, but it will be difficult to trigger 21:43:54 <andythenorth> inverse of engine power might be correct for trains where only the engine has brakes 21:43:59 <peter1138> also while you're at it, ship acceleration :p 21:44:03 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:12 <andythenorth> ship acceleration is wonderful 21:44:19 <andythenorth> it also makes smoke completely pointless 21:44:26 <andythenorth> as the smoke is only shown when acclerating 21:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so when a ship turns, it goes sideways? 21:44:35 <andythenorth> and ships accelerate rather fast 21:44:45 <andythenorth> did I ever mention ship smoke before? :P 21:45:08 <Terkhen> once or thrice ;) 21:45:23 <peter1138> smoke should be shown when powered is being used 21:45:28 <peter1138> but ships don't have power :D 21:45:28 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@4.80-203-77.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 21:45:45 <peter1138> -ed 21:46:01 <andythenorth> sailing ships don't have power 21:46:08 <andythenorth> except they do 21:46:13 <peter1138> they don't smoke either 21:46:15 <Eddi|zuHause> realistic wind! 21:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> should also affect planes! 21:46:40 <andythenorth> effect sprites for sails! 21:47:05 <andythenorth> how much should this tram cost? 21:47:33 <peter1138> 25p 21:47:50 <andythenorth> it does already 21:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> for CETS i (try to) take a real price, and scale it to 4% inflation based on 1920 21:49:32 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 21:51:09 <appe> Eddi|zuHause, __ln___: let me add: the german government still seems to think ww2 to be something else but history. 21:51:29 <__ln___> appe: fiction? 21:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: how has the german government have anything to do with this? 21:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> *does 21:51:58 <appe> Eddi|zuHause: thats the ignorance im talking about. as far as i know, that episode wasnt even legal to air? 21:52:04 <andythenorth> how does this get cargo classes fixed? 21:52:05 <andythenorth> :P 21:52:10 <bd97> how many plane can we have per international airport, 21:52:20 <andythenorth> yay 21:52:27 <andythenorth> godwin event avoided by genuine questions 21:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> appe: you're making no sense 21:53:00 <appe> bah, never mind. 21:53:07 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 21:53:13 <peter1138> if you read the article, it states it was legal to show 21:53:28 <appe> yes, i see that know 21:53:46 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:48 * appe returns to his break vans 21:54:19 * peter1138 breaks appe's brake vans 21:54:36 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:54:43 <appe> it's british, itl break by itself. 21:55:55 <peter1138> yay, openttd built in mingw :D 21:55:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 21:56:10 <peter1138> now... any r23191 servers ? :P 21:56:52 <Terkhen> good night 21:57:00 <peter1138> hm, i forgot about the network server list being slow 21:57:25 *** WINDCENT [~WINDCENT@125.81-167-82.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:04 <andythenorth> tram costs £21k 22:00:09 <andythenorth> which is about 25p in new money 22:00:30 <WINDCENT> Have a question for you all :-) I'm trying to set up a dedicated server on my Linux server with a terminal window. Is there a place to download a standard tar.gz file, the only thing I find is a .deb file, not familiar with .deb file, but undertand that it's not possible to install this via terminal window. 22:01:01 <WINDCENT> The server is on the opposite side of the world. 22:01:21 <michi_cc> Updated YAIM: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=979868#p979868 22:01:24 <peter1138> a .deb is a debian package file 22:01:25 <__ln___> not possible to install a .deb through terminal?? 22:01:59 <peter1138> is it a debian-based server? 22:02:09 <peter1138> although 22:02:25 <peter1138> just download a linux generic binary 22:02:32 <peter1138> that should "just work", no installation needed 22:03:29 <andythenorth> hmm 22:03:39 <andythenorth> can I be arsed to fix this mail capacity stupidity 22:03:47 <andythenorth> capacity: 60 mailbags 22:03:56 <andythenorth> but then when you build it: 120 mailbags 22:04:27 <WINDCENT> ahh.. there it was... the generic.... thanks... It's an ubunu 22:19:34 <peter1138> return min(-force - resistance, -10000) / mass; 22:19:35 <peter1138> yum 22:20:07 <peter1138> so braking power is directly related to the force provided by the engine? :D 22:20:41 <andythenorth> 'engine braking' 22:20:48 <peter1138> allegedly 22:20:52 <andythenorth> peter1138 probably quite realistic for dynamic braking 22:21:02 <andythenorth> you don't want to lose the air on a big freight 22:22:52 <andythenorth> Al Krug has a nice guide on this :) http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/brakes.htm 22:23:26 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 22:25:03 <andythenorth> peter1138: how about freight trains that have to make a brake set on down slopes > 1 tile long ? 22:25:07 <andythenorth> :P 22:25:59 <andythenorth> freights go slower down big grades IRL; in openttd we just let the physics pull them down faster 22:26:46 <peter1138> basically that's just max-speed based on stopping distance 22:26:57 <peter1138> instead of stopping distance from current speed 22:27:42 <peter1138> but yes, things like slopes affecting stopping distance is one of the complexities of calculating the distance 22:27:49 <peter1138> or you could just do v/10*v/10... 22:28:26 <andythenorth> NO! It's not realistic :P 22:28:41 <peter1138> true, you could just make it up :D 22:28:51 <andythenorth> I am going to measure your pixels, and if you're one over or under on stopping distance, I want my money back 22:29:40 * andythenorth can't solve the mail refit lies 22:29:46 <andythenorth> maybe I'll just close that ticket 22:30:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B293.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:32 <andythenorth> maybe I should start a railtypes newgrf for YAIM 22:31:39 <andythenorth> do railtypes have classes? 22:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> not yet :p 22:32:05 <peter1138> no 22:32:18 <andythenorth> do they have labels? :P 22:32:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes :) 22:32:30 <andythenorth> gah 22:32:34 <andythenorth> lies ! 22:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they don't have lice 22:33:17 <andythenorth> labels have lice 22:33:20 <andythenorth> who's in charge of them? 22:34:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd 22:34:18 <andythenorth> oh joy, there's loads of railtype labels already 22:35:21 * andythenorth goes off the idea of railtype newgrf 22:35:55 *** bd97 [d5372bd7@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:37:37 <peter1138> heh 22:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only getting more joyful with "roadtypes" :p 22:39:29 <peter1138> nah 22:39:31 <peter1138> they don't exist 22:42:21 <andythenorth> will they ever? 22:42:50 <andythenorth> the only use I have for them is steam trams without catenary :P 22:42:52 <andythenorth> and maybe mud 22:43:49 <Eddi|zuHause> overhead tram, lightrail, ... 22:44:29 <Eddi|zuHause> "lightrail" being a special kind of tram that only goes off-road, but has increased speed 22:46:04 <andythenorth> off-road :O 22:46:26 <andythenorth> this kind of off-road? http://foremost.ca/index_vehicles.php 22:47:40 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:51:00 <andythenorth> what does a railtype grf need? 22:51:12 <andythenorth> 'good' and 'cheap' rail types? 22:51:34 <andythenorth> if I offer railtypes, do I have to deal with elrail and such crap? 22:51:46 <andythenorth> i.e. provide variants with catenary and so on 22:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> although you don't need to draw catenary, just set a flag 22:52:47 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-57.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:53:02 <andythenorth> can I reuse base set sprites? 22:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> for what? 22:53:31 <andythenorth> track, crossings, catenary etc 22:53:58 <andythenorth> iirc the base set sprites might be a bit broken for railtypes, I looked when I was doing crossings 22:54:06 <andythenorth> maybe I'm wrong 22:54:27 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know about track or crossings 22:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause> other than just keeping the default tracks in 22:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the default railtypes 22:55:13 <andythenorth> hmm 22:55:22 <andythenorth> I have enough sets in progress 22:55:24 <andythenorth> tempting though 22:56:13 * andythenorth -> bed 22:56:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:56:59 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Poof] 22:58:58 <TrueBrain> "It is amazing how many people can use the internet day in and day out, without actually knowing how to use it" :D 22:59:05 <TrueBrain> (fun quote of the day :P) 22:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> same can be said about cars 22:59:46 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 22:59:49 <Eddi|zuHause> we had fog all week, sight between 80m and 150m. 23:00:20 <Eddi|zuHause> guess how many times i have been stuck behind people using the fog light (only to be used with sight below 50m) 23:00:42 <TrueBrain> default for many people: it looks foggy, lets put on my fog light 23:00:53 <TrueBrain> then again, I doubt they know how much 50m is :D 23:02:31 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: For Germany the moment you can't see the next "Leitpfosten" on a straight road with no intersection. 23:02:45 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: that you know ... now tell all the other car users :P 23:03:07 <michi_cc> They should've learned that in driving school. 23:03:31 <TrueBrain> should have, would have, could have :D 23:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> my suspicion is that 20% of the people would not pass the license exam again 23:04:08 <TrueBrain> 20%? You are kind 23:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that's more than enough 23:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "play the lottery, and help kids" commercials they should show a driving safety clip each time before the news... 23:06:22 <TrueBrain> they started a commercial here to promote taking pictures of criminal activity (mostly because human memory is faulty by design). Kinda nice for a change :) 23:09:23 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@4.80-203-77.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 23:20:54 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 23:21:52 *** WINDCENT [~WINDCENT@125.81-167-82.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:01 *** Devroush|3 [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:25:19 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: You want a revival of "Der 7. Sinn"? :) 23:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: something like that, yes 23:31:00 <Eddi|zuHause> there was an east german variant of that, of which i forgot the name... 23:31:31 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:47:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:23 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit [] 23:54:50 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]