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00:05:57 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4db0f293.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 00:10:12 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:22:52 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:23:23 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 00:27:17 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:28:35 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.176.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:08 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:03:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:04:55 *** MagisterQuis2 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:05:17 *** MagisterQuis1 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:06:34 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:20 *** MagisterQuis [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:22:27 *** MagisterQuis2 [~Adium@c-71-206-9-241.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:02 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:35:28 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 01:56:38 *** Grootie [~Grootie@535568FF.cm-6-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:14:54 <Grootie> !password 02:14:54 *** Grootie was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 02:15:58 <valhallasw> :D 02:17:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ooh... always funny when that happens :) 02:29:38 *** OverXxX [~XiNoN@7da4dd3e.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:29:38 *** OverXxX [~XiNoN@7da4dd3e.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has left #openttd [] 02:37:34 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: zzzzz] 03:45:36 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:7412:875:f1f:b4c8] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:55:59 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:03:33 *** Td [48deae41@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:04:37 <Td> newb here: Just installed and generate a map but cant build anything beside roads, what did I do wrong? 04:07:01 *** Td [48deae41@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ... 04:38:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.176.174] has joined #openttd 04:45:32 *** MinchinWeb [~6034f4d5@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 05:26:06 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p4FC22E0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 05:42:04 *** supermop_ [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop_] 05:49:00 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:53:10 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:53:59 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73E17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7325A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:00:17 *** MinchinWeb [~6034f4d5@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:21:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 06:34:52 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.230] has joined #openttd 06:38:38 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:03:11 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 07:07:31 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:13:45 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:16:13 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:30 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:23:25 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:25:51 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 07:26:04 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:32:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.176.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:02 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa2b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #openttd 07:57:09 *** ptr [~peter@c-5eeaaa2b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Zzzzzz] 08:06:18 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 08:08:29 <dihedral> greetings 08:10:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:14:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:16:05 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:40:04 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-25.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:41:53 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:42:43 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:57:31 <retro|cz> Can anyone provide some good tweaked dedicated server config ? 08:57:38 <retro|cz> I just need some start. 08:57:59 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:59:38 <planetmaker> moin 09:03:30 <retro|cz> planetmaker, ? 09:04:32 <planetmaker> I could have said 'hello' 09:08:21 <tokai|mdlx> moinmoin 09:09:16 <tokai|mdlx> planetmaker: or "dobry den!" :) 09:09:49 <planetmaker> :-) But that's ... geographically much different ;-) 09:11:17 <planetmaker> but then I'd go for ì¢ì ë°€ìŽìì straight away 09:11:22 <tokai|mdlx> planetmaker: But retro|cz probably would have understood it immediately - assuming the cz suffix of his nick name refers to the fact that he's from Czechia. :) 09:11:41 <retro|cz> yup 09:11:44 <planetmaker> true. 09:12:30 <tokai|mdlx> planetmaker: Very formal. :) 09:12:52 <planetmaker> yes ;-) 09:13:22 <planetmaker> Let's say my Korean is not good enough to use the proper informal words 09:13:34 <tokai|mdlx> Not sure how the Koreans talk on the Internet. Is formal language used there in normal forums, chats, etc.? :) 09:13:52 <tokai|mdlx> No idea about that. :) 09:13:53 <planetmaker> not too sure either 09:14:28 <planetmaker> I'm basically stuck at "starting in the attempt to teach myself" :-P 09:14:44 <tokai|mdlx> I tried that with Japanese one.. failed :) 09:14:50 <tokai|mdlx> one=once 09:15:09 <planetmaker> :-) 09:15:32 <tokai|mdlx> planetmaker: Best is to watch a lot content (movies, TV, etc.) in the native language. At some point you'll get quite a lot automatically. :) 09:15:50 <planetmaker> true 09:16:16 <planetmaker> But it requires to have at least *some* more vocabulary and grammar at hand than I do 09:17:14 <tokai|mdlx> It comes with time. As a little child you learned a language too w/o having vocabulary or grammer. :) 09:19:01 <tokai|mdlx> The problem with age is that we try to convert the language into our mother language. Which makes it much harder to learn a language, I think. Your brain needs to store connections between foreign words/ structures and your own native language rather than simply associating things with pictures, sounds, feelings, etc. 09:37:42 *** _mj [~me@dslb-188-097-231-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:43:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:47:05 *** _mj [~me@dslb-188-097-231-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 11:27:47 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:43:01 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-004-093.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:48:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:54:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-45-177.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:00:20 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-54-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:03:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:15:04 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 12:45:49 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=57947#p990623 <- that's one of the most useless besides-the-point replies i have seen in a long time... 12:46:27 *** TomyLobo [~foo@p54947F46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:50:19 <V453000> is it? 12:51:18 <__ln__> the same kind of reply I would have expected to get on this channel some years ago. 13:00:10 *** lollercaust [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:18 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:59 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23917 13:14:00 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:57 *** Guest23917 [~frank@p5DDFF4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:35:49 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:42:51 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083349.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:44:54 *** lollercaust [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:56:35 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:00:56 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Snail_] 14:23:35 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 14:27:54 *** fjb|tab is now known as Guest23924 14:27:54 *** Guest23924 [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:55 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:28:02 <Belugas> hello 14:29:30 <iddqd> hi Belugas 14:29:34 <iddqd> whatâs up máán 14:33:38 <Belugas> the sun 14:33:46 <Belugas> and hello iddqd 14:53:37 <retro|cz> What setting is for allow to build all industries in network game ? 14:53:41 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-28-49.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 14:53:42 <retro|cz> I can't find it :( 14:58:20 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-30-226.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> retro|cz: economy->construction method for primary industries->like secondary industries (or similar= 15:06:45 <retro|cz> Eddi|zuHause, i found 15:06:47 <retro|cz> thanks 15:06:55 <retro|cz> I meant in openttd.cfg :) 15:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> well, search for similar names :) 16:11:31 <Terkhen> hello 16:21:15 *** MinchinWeb [~ce4b7474@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:24:13 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:25:30 *** retro|cz [~retro@106.142.broadband6.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:25:49 *** saua [~saua@193.81-167-3.customer.lyse.net] has quit [] 16:27:31 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:19 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 16:30:32 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:33:09 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-178-004-188-147.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:39:32 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7325A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:32 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7325A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.176.174] has joined #openttd 16:47:16 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 17:05:41 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:05:44 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:06:01 * Alberth waves hi to all 17:06:48 *** cassy2012 [~cassy2012@71.181.113.225] has joined #openttd 17:06:48 <cassy2012> Come webcam chat with me guys @ http://adfoc.us/1872928842 17:06:50 *** cassy2012 [~cassy2012@71.181.113.225] has left #openttd [] 17:07:56 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:16 *** lollercaust [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 17:16:08 <Belugas> chat on a webcam? why? i like chatting with IRC! 17:16:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f567c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:13 <Alberth> to practice your sign language perhaps? 17:17:18 <Alberth> hi Belugas :) 17:27:13 <Belugas> hehe 17:27:21 <Belugas> hi sir Alberth :) 17:29:07 <frosch123> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,808986,00.html <- [german] lol @ "correction" at the end of the message 17:35:01 <planetmaker> :-D 17:35:45 <planetmaker> I saw once a trailer detatch from a lorry and roll over the intersection. Was a bit scary to see the trailer just roll over it... 17:36:00 <planetmaker> luckily it was neither fast nor did it hit anyone or anything expensive 17:36:06 <planetmaker> just a few stones 17:36:10 <andythenorth> BANDIT 17:36:14 <andythenorth> will offer that feature 17:36:15 <andythenorth> :P 17:36:19 <planetmaker> :-P 17:36:31 <planetmaker> refit: trailer w/o lorry and driver? 17:42:24 <Alberth> who needs a truck when you can use just a trailer :) 17:44:18 <__ln__> i bet the carbon emissions of a trailer are much lower than those of a lorry. 17:50:38 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:4c36:d796:fd51:ecb7] has joined #openttd 17:50:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:56:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:58:55 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 18:08:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 18:09:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-74-234-81.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:37 <Alberth> not when they explode when driving off a cliff :p 18:19:11 *** Lakie [~Lakie@host81-141-98-103.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #openttd 18:19:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-100-196.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:46 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.4.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:38:49 *** enr1x [~kiike@62.57.4.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #openttd 18:39:46 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7325A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7325A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23794 /trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt: 18:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 5 changes by Tranzistors 18:56:16 *** FreeTraffic [~freetraff@71.181.113.224] has joined #openttd 18:56:16 <FreeTraffic> Free Traffic To Your Sites or Blogs From http://adfoc.us/1872952475 18:56:18 *** FreeTraffic [~freetraff@71.181.113.224] has left #openttd [] 18:59:59 <planetmaker> @ban *!*@71.181.113.224 19:02:17 <frosch123> dorpsgek doesn't like you? 19:02:22 <frosch123> @ban *!*@71.181.113.224 19:02:30 <frosch123> hmm, he does not like me either :( 19:03:30 <planetmaker> sure that it acknowledges a ban of a person not in the channel? 19:04:58 <__ln__> regarding the bus segregation thread; how about being modern and only segregating males and females? 19:05:13 <frosch123> @whoami 19:05:13 <DorpsGek> frosch123: frosch 19:05:22 <frosch123> hmm, i thought it would 19:06:17 <planetmaker> @ban 19:06:29 <planetmaker> hm... somehow one can get the list. But I forgot 19:06:37 <frosch123> @help ban 19:06:37 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: There is no command "ban". 19:06:41 <frosch123> :p 19:06:49 <frosch123> @help unban 19:06:49 <DorpsGek> frosch123: (unban [<channel>] [<hostmask>]) -- Unbans <hostmask> on <channel>. If <hostmask> is not given, unbans any hostmask currently banned on <channel> that matches your current hostmask. Especially useful for unbanning yourself when you get unexpectedly (or accidentally) banned from the channel. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself. 19:07:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.163.225] has joined #openttd 19:12:59 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f567c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.176.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:15:55 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.230] has joined #openttd 19:27:02 <George> Hi. I've got a report about crashes of OTTD when building an ECS industry. I created a report http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4969 19:27:27 <Rubidium> that user changed NewGRFs in-game 19:29:04 <George> I started a new game, cheated the money, builded a new farm. the same result 19:29:38 <planetmaker> hm, Rubidium, will it be an idea to also save the grf parameters to the crash log? 19:29:49 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.209.230] has joined #openttd 19:30:20 * Rubidium ponders disabling "interpret literal" mode 19:30:20 <George> uploaded new game test crash 19:31:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-81-107-138-246.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:33:14 <Rubidium> none of the ECS newgrfs are on bananas, so where does one get them? 19:33:30 <Rubidium> especially the one named "test.grf" 19:33:48 *** _mj [~me@dslb-188-097-080-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:34:02 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:12 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@sirius.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:37:21 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083349.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!] 19:38:40 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.196.94] has joined #openttd 19:39:17 *** lollercaust [~paper@41.Red-88-15-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:13 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 19:44:33 *** JVassie_ [~James@2.25.209.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:20 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:56:41 <_mj> quick question: some month ago there was a function called 'VehicleMove(Vehicle*, bool)', it is apparently gone. is there some replacement for it ? 19:57:06 <_mj> docs.openttd.org doesn't seem up-to-date 19:57:44 <Yexo> TrueBrain: ^^ could you fix docs.openttd.org :) 19:57:55 <Yexo> _mj: no idea, what should it do exactly? 19:58:16 <Yexo> there are TrainController and similar functions 19:58:19 <_mj> um, I used it to stop a newly created train :) 19:58:34 <Yexo> a newly created train should be stopped already 19:58:50 <_mj> I think it was there just to be sure 19:58:58 <Yexo> that was almost certainly wrong 19:59:14 <_mj> I just leave it out then 20:01:09 <_mj> there is really a lot that has changes over this time, I will need to find some fixes for my code 20:06:52 <Rubidium> that function was renamed to be more clear what it did: update (the) viewport 20:08:50 <_mj> Ah thanks 20:16:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:18:22 <George> Rubidium: > none of the ECS newgrfs are on bananas, so where does one get them? - http://george.zernebok.net/temp/ECS1.2/ 20:19:14 <George> Rubidium> especially the one named "test.grf" - http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4969/getfile/8058/crash.log - i do not see any test.grf here 20:21:00 <andythenorth> eve 20:21:03 <andythenorth> ning 20:24:17 <iddqd> eve 20:24:19 <iddqd> nong 20:28:17 *** cornjuliox [cornjuliox@202.128.63.177] has joined #openttd 20:28:57 <cornjuliox> when it comes to signals, just exactly how do you define a 'block'? 20:29:14 <cornjuliox> the space between two signals? 20:29:38 <Yexo> all rails that are connected to eachother without a signal in between 20:29:59 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 20:30:26 <andythenorth> Yexo: I've been thinking about NML + macro expansion... 20:30:40 <andythenorth> CPP is quite clunky for the cases I've been finding 20:30:52 <andythenorth> it was very good for nfo 20:30:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host101-141-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:30:59 <planetmaker> cornjuliox: http://kokolokus.de/?s=blog&v=6 20:31:05 <planetmaker> hello andythenorth 20:31:08 <Wolf01> hello 20:31:10 <andythenorth> hello 20:31:14 <planetmaker> hello Wolf01 20:31:25 <Yexo> andythenorth: there is nothing in nml that says you have to use CPP 20:31:29 <andythenorth> I know 20:31:36 <andythenorth> but it's the conventional approach so far 20:31:38 <Yexo> but I'm curious what cases you've found? 20:31:48 <andythenorth> with NML we need for unique identifiers for switches...which demands string concatenation...which CPP sucks at 20:32:07 <planetmaker> THIS_ID(general_ID) works fine 20:32:12 <andythenorth> with nfo I solved a lot of cases because I could repeat action 2 blocks with same ID, then branch 20:32:18 <Yexo> that's true. In an ideal world however you wouldn't need to duplicate such switches 20:32:21 <planetmaker> when you define THIS_ID as variadic macro in the vehicles or industry's file 20:32:29 <andythenorth> planetmaker: true, but that's limited 20:32:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-28-34-202.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:33:20 <andythenorth> this for example is clunky :) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/928/ 20:34:51 <planetmaker> yes. But you're doing things twice there, if you #define the file to be included 20:35:11 <andythenorth> there might be a better way yes 20:35:18 <andythenorth> but I couldn't figure it out 20:35:49 <cornjuliox> so, based on what i'm reading here would it be safe to conclude that a 'block' consists of signals connected together by track, regardless of any impossible turns (e.g 90 degrees)? 20:35:52 <andythenorth> I figured out alternatives, but not better 20:35:58 <planetmaker> the template would use switch(FEAT_RV, THIS_ID(template_switch_name), var) { ... } 20:36:11 <planetmaker> cornjuliox: basically yes 20:36:20 <planetmaker> it may even be different track types 20:36:28 <planetmaker> like maglev + rail 20:36:41 <cornjuliox> ok. so i'm beginning to understand all this 20:36:59 *** _mj [~me@dslb-188-097-080-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: _mj] 20:37:36 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that would require #ifdefs around the switches (I think) 20:37:50 <planetmaker> why? 20:37:54 <andythenorth> or additional switches using advanced varaction2 + CPP to put in a constant 20:38:03 <cornjuliox> and the big difference between presignals and block signals is that presignals are green/red based on the status of any combo/exit signals in the block, regardless of whether or not the trains can actually get to those signals, and block signals just check if the space immediately in front of it is free, right? 20:38:52 <Yexo> andythenorth: it's often easier if you write the complete nml (without CPP) for one or two cases and try to template that 20:38:57 <andythenorth> or I could use #ifdefs to set a string, depending on the value of another define 20:38:59 <Yexo> rather than write a generic template directly 20:39:28 *** snack2 [~nn@dsl-prvbrasgw1-fe05dc00-37.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [] 20:39:39 <Yexo> as yes, I agree the example you showed is clumsy 20:39:46 <planetmaker> yes. I think we (I) sometimes did that mistake with FIRS to not follow that advice, Yexo 20:40:03 <andythenorth> I'm starting to conclude CPP is limited 20:40:14 <andythenorth> or rather...not 100% appropriate to this case 20:40:25 <andythenorth> MB pm-ed me offering m4 20:40:38 <Yexo> you can use m4 as preprocessor for nml 20:40:40 <andythenorth> but another developer I know said m4 should be avoided at all costs 20:40:45 <Yexo> or for nfo or course,using mb's m4nfo 20:41:03 <Yexo> m4 is definitely a lot stronger than cpp 20:41:11 <planetmaker> Look at it and use it, if you find it useful 20:41:22 <Yexo> it's less used, more people know cpp than m4, but personally I think it's quite good 20:41:41 <planetmaker> from what I saw it has a lot of potential 20:41:46 <Yexo> at one point I wondered whether to include m4 as default preprocessor in nml, but some people (rightfully!) talked me out of it 20:41:47 <andythenorth> is it trivial or painful to adapt the makefile to it? 20:42:04 <Yexo> should be quite easy to adapt the makefile 20:42:11 <planetmaker> relatively easy, I guess 20:42:19 <andythenorth> I like CPP personally 20:42:33 <andythenorth> but it's making for very...lengthy...code 20:42:34 <Prof_Frink> m4 is better for getting to Wales. 20:42:42 <andythenorth> Prof_Frink: I just proved that :P 20:45:24 <andythenorth> are there alternatives to m4? It looks very full featured 20:45:30 <andythenorth> which scares me a little 20:47:38 <Yexo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_purpose_macro_processor 20:47:43 <Yexo> doesn't list much 20:47:54 <andythenorth> hmm 20:47:57 <andythenorth> pyexpander 20:48:07 <andythenorth> basically I want to be able to write arbitrary python :P 20:48:23 <andythenorth> and have it return a result to be included 20:48:32 <andythenorth> much like I can in TAL (for the web) 20:48:47 <andythenorth> but this might be bad for reasons I haven't thought of 20:48:50 <andythenorth> or impossible 20:49:24 <andythenorth> using a ${expression} syntax or similar 20:50:01 <andythenorth> hmm 20:50:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth: adding python scripts is relatively easy, too... 20:50:12 <andythenorth> pyexpander has loops :) 20:50:30 <andythenorth> loops would make for efficient, but complicated templating 20:50:37 <andythenorth> loops that build code are hard to debug :P 20:50:52 <andythenorth> but would handle things like arbitrary number of trailing vehicles in consist 20:51:10 <Yexo> you first have to be able to write normal nml code to handle that 20:51:19 <Yexo> if you've done that you can find a way to template it 20:51:27 <Yexo> using pyexpander, m4 or even cpp if you wish 20:52:13 <andythenorth> normal nml code can't handle that - not meaningfully 20:52:22 <andythenorth> I can write nml that won't explode in that case, but it's not useful 20:52:41 <Yexo> if you can't write it in normal nml, you can't write it using a preprocessor either 20:52:54 <andythenorth> why? 20:52:59 <Yexo> not that with "can't" I mean when it's really impossible, bulky nml code doesn't matter 20:53:12 <Yexo> because a preprocessor doesn't add any new features, it only makes it easier to use the existing ones 20:53:28 <Yexo> just like everything you can do in nml you can do in nfo too 20:53:32 <Yexo> it's the same here 20:53:41 <Yexo> everything you can do with "nml+preprocessor" you can do with only nml too 20:54:03 <andythenorth> so maybe I am looking for a code generator, not a preprocessor 20:54:10 <andythenorth> but I don't trust code generation 20:54:29 <andythenorth> ;) 20:54:30 <Yexo> the same holds there: everything you can with with code generator x (that generates nml code), you can also do with plain nml 20:55:02 <andythenorth> plain nml + lots of find + replace when you want to maintain things ;) 20:55:15 <andythenorth> versus trying to understand wtf the code generator is doing when you want to maintain things 20:55:21 <andythenorth> potato / potato 20:55:43 <andythenorth> I could definitely solve all the cases I have with CPP + a lot of switches 20:55:49 <andythenorth> just seems clunky 20:56:25 <Yexo> yes, it's clunky, but you could do it 20:56:38 <andythenorth> I'm intrigued if BANDIT code makes sense to others 20:56:44 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository 20:56:44 <Yexo> the "clunky"-ness you can (possible) avoid by using a good preprocessor or a code generator 20:57:37 <andythenorth> I'm also intrigued if I will understand what I did in 6 months :P 20:57:50 <Yexo> I think you're over-using defines there 20:58:03 <andythenorth> I could use less 20:58:06 <planetmaker> over-engineered 20:58:35 <Yexo> why not directly include item{property{ cost: 10; } } in each vehicle .-nml file instead of defining "#DEFINE THIS_BUY_COST 10" and including a file that uses that define just to set a property? 20:59:01 <planetmaker> yes 20:59:32 <Yexo> imo that's only a good idea if you need to use one define in multiple places 20:59:46 <Yexo> like you use THIS_SMOKE for setting a property and somewhere in a callback result 20:59:54 <Yexo> in that case it's used to avoid duplication of one value 21:01:20 <andythenorth> over-abstraction 21:01:22 <andythenorth> what else? 21:04:51 <andythenorth> brb 21:21:29 *** cornjuliox [cornjuliox@202.128.63.177] has quit [] 21:21:47 *** cornjuliox [cornjuliox@202.128.63.177] has joined #openttd 21:25:13 *** kkb110__ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:13 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:57 *** TheDude [~honza3@2.237.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 21:26:18 <TheDude> hello there 21:27:06 <TheDude> can I have a quick question for developers? what is this new message "your computer took too long to join" popping up when joining server? 21:27:26 <planetmaker> have a guess 21:27:36 <TheDude> yeah, well, is 5 second too long? 21:27:42 <planetmaker> download too slow. Or your computer too slow to catch up with the game after download 21:28:17 <TheDude> I guess openttd doesnt require more than 8Mbit, and 2GHz computer, and it kicks me after 5 seconds of joining 21:28:26 <TheDude> is it possible, that server is slow? 21:28:27 <Rubidium> TheDude: the default is 15 seconds 21:28:55 <TheDude> still, I can see map after 5 seconds, and right after joining it kicks me with that message 21:29:08 <Rubidium> so if it's 5 seconds, then the server owner has (as far as I can see in my magic crystal ball) reduced the value 21:29:13 <planetmaker> servers can modify that ^ 21:29:29 <TheDude> I am the server owner :-) 21:29:29 <Ammler> are you sure, your openttd process get the whole 100% of your 2GHz? 21:29:58 <TheDude> is it that magic new value? max_download_time = 10000 :-) 21:30:15 <__ln__> is that 2GHz of AMD or Intel? 21:30:17 <TheDude> it was 1000 on default, but I increased it, dont know what units it is 21:30:36 <planetmaker> @calc 1000 / 74 21:30:36 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 13.5135135135 21:30:44 <Ammler> I would guess, it does autokick slow clients 21:30:48 <TheDude> ah, frames, ok, thanks for info 21:30:55 <planetmaker> @calc 10000 / 74 21:30:55 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 135.135135135 21:32:11 <TheDude> do you want to try to connect that server? :-) 21:33:46 <Ammler> TheDude: you could also try to connect another server 21:33:55 <TheDude> that of course works 21:34:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:35:07 <Ammler> TheDude: check the setting on the server console, maybe you have something else as 10000 there 21:37:29 <Yexo> TheDude: what version does your server run? 21:37:44 <TheDude> 1.2.0b2 21:42:59 <Yexo> TheDude: and which server is it? 21:43:23 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:58 <TheDude> 89.111.65.225:3979 21:46:18 <Yexo> and where do I find those ecs grfs? they're not on bananas 21:46:37 <TheDude> ah, yes, true 21:47:19 <TheDude> should be here http://www.luukland.net/data/ECS_1.2.zip 21:48:44 <Yexo> I can join almost instantly and am not kicked out 21:49:19 *** fjb|tab [~frank@p5DDFF9BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:38 <TheDude> really? ok 21:50:49 <TheDude> thanks for trying that 21:53:01 <Yexo> hmm, "connection lost" 21:53:05 <Yexo> but that might be my connection 21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23795 /branches/1.1/ (21 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed) 21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk: 21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Make default timeouts for certain network states lower and configurable [FS#4955] (r23764) 21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Check whether a water tile is really empty when overbuilding it with an object [FS#4956] (r23763) 21:55:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Missing locking causing crash in extreme case when being in the MP lobby [FS#4938] (r23752) 21:55:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Clear the backed up orders of a removed station as well, otherwise one 21:55:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: could create orders to a station that was never in the original backupped 21:55:18 <TheDude> I quit the server 21:55:27 <TheDude> ok, I set map to 64x64 21:55:55 <TheDude> still it kicks me for joining too long, after to 2 seconds, when it is set to 130 sec in cfg 21:56:13 <TheDude> but if it joinable, perhaps it is indeed problem on my side 21:56:58 <Yexo> I can still join it 21:57:10 <TheDude> ok 21:57:15 <TheDude> I cant 21:57:27 <TheDude> my friend cant either 22:00:13 <TheDude> I am in, good 22:05:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23796 /branches/1.1/ (56 files in 4 dirs): [1.1] -Backport from trunk r23698 22:06:12 <planetmaker> and what was the culprit, TheDude? 22:06:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23797 /branches/1.1/ (8 files in 6 dirs): [1.1] -Prepare: 1.1.5 22:06:42 <TheDude> actually, I set map back to 512x512 and cant join again 22:06:54 <planetmaker> slow connection? 22:06:57 <TheDude> nn 22:07:00 <TheDude> connections is fine 22:07:17 <Rubidium> smells like not pausing on join 22:07:27 <TheDude> maybe slower notebook, 2Ghz, but few years old 22:07:41 <TheDude> but I got that message with my new computer also, so not really sure 22:07:50 <TheDude> yes, no pausing on join is true 22:08:01 <planetmaker> success maybe with pause? 22:08:23 <TheDude> maybe, but it is on purpose and I dont want to change it 22:09:11 <Yexo> I can still join without any problems 22:09:31 <Yexo> still only 360kb or so 22:09:41 <TheDude> what is the difference between this new settings and the max_join_time anyway? 22:10:06 <TheDude> yy, I join too, but it kicks me right after I see map 22:14:10 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:58 <Alberth> you are too far behind after downloading the map perhaps 22:17:13 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:17:54 *** Knogle [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 22:18:19 <Rubidium> are there *any* modifications to the server or client? 22:18:52 <TheDude> server is modified 22:19:08 <TheDude> but the same modification is very well joinable on another server 22:19:13 <TheDude> client is unpatched 22:19:37 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:19:48 <Yexo> I suspect it's something on your end as I can join it (with unmodified client) without any problems 22:20:49 <TheDude> yy, I agree, it seems so 22:22:09 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 22:22:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host86-169-180-203.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:32 * Rubidium can join without any problems as well 22:24:46 <TheDude> on the other hand, joning 1.1.4 of the same modified server is no problem 22:25:44 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 22:26:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 22:34:53 <andythenorth> hmm 22:35:03 <andythenorth> are developer-defined bitmasks appropriate for RVs? 22:35:09 <andythenorth> as trains have them already 22:42:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B8E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:39 <andythenorth> Yexo: I guess there's no way an nml identifier could be locally scoped, i.e. to just part of the nml file (with possibility of being redefined)? 22:52:50 <Yexo> it's possible to allow reuse of identifiers (like in nfo) 22:53:07 <Yexo> however I don't plan on doing so, since it makes it a lot harder to find bugs when you're unaccustomed to it 22:53:35 <planetmaker> oh, I'd hate that, tbh 22:53:42 <andythenorth> hmm 22:53:56 <planetmaker> unique identifiers make it easy to find stuff 22:53:57 <andythenorth> I could segment the project and generate nfo for each vehicle 22:54:00 <andythenorth> then combine the nfo 22:54:08 <andythenorth> no idea how :P 22:54:18 <andythenorth> certainly more complicated than concatenation of identifiers 22:54:32 <planetmaker> I really fail to see where the variadic macro don't help you with the uniqueness requirement 22:54:41 <Yexo> what's so bad with the current THIS_ID() solution? 22:55:32 <andythenorth> there's nothing wrong with it 22:56:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a pretty genious solution, actually :) 22:56:56 <andythenorth> it will concatenate multiple args in a single define? 22:57:03 * andythenorth thinks it will 22:57:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that does not work 22:58:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you need multiple macros for that to work 22:58:34 <Eddi|zuHause> like: 22:58:51 <Eddi|zuHause> #define VEH_ID1(...) __VA_ARGS ## id 22:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> #define VEH_ID(...) VEH_ID1(__VA_ARGS__) 22:59:33 <Yexo> why not something like #define THIS_ID(id) VEH_A_ ## id 22:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and then like VEH_ID(JOIN3(a,b,c)) 23:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> if you just writ VEH_ID(a,b,c) you will end up with a,b,cid 23:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not a valid identifier 23:01:08 <Yexo> but why do you need multiple arguments? 23:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that was his question 23:01:20 <Yexo> you can always do VEH_ID(a ## b ## c) 23:01:27 <andythenorth> that's what I'm testing 23:01:33 <andythenorth> ish 23:02:20 <andythenorth> that means abandoning __VA_ARGS though? 23:02:27 <andythenorth> which means a lot more code cruft 23:02:40 <Yexo> again: why would you even need multiple arguments to THIS_ID? 23:02:52 <Yexo> isn't using __VA_ARGS here the cruft? 23:03:18 <andythenorth> maybe there's another way 23:03:48 <Yexo> there are always other ways. The crucial question is: what do you want to solve 23:03:55 <andythenorth> templating road vehicle trailers 23:04:03 <andythenorth> I have everything done but the graphics chain 23:04:09 <andythenorth> which I'm stuck on 23:04:13 <Yexo> do you have one (or two) of them written out without any template code? 23:04:18 <andythenorth> no 23:04:21 <Yexo> do that first 23:04:37 <andythenorth> ? 23:04:39 <Yexo> than figure out what you duplicate for multiple vehicles. It only makes sense to template that part 23:05:05 <andythenorth> hmm 23:05:26 <Yexo> otherwise you're again going for over-engineering like with bandits 23:05:50 <andythenorth> I can't actually see how to write it out without templating 23:05:57 <andythenorth> I guess big switches 23:06:03 <Yexo> simply write the plain nml code for one vehicle? 23:06:04 <planetmaker> you can write one vehicle with switches? 23:06:30 <andythenorth> sure 23:06:31 <Yexo> if you have to duplicate a lot of code there for different cargo types, just do 3 of them 23:06:33 <planetmaker> i.e. consider to make a one-vehicle grf. That'd need no templates 23:07:51 <Terkhen> good night 23:07:59 <andythenorth> bye Terkhen 23:08:00 <Yexo> gn Terkhen 23:08:48 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:10:05 <andythenorth> it's not so much over-engineered as clunky :P 23:10:08 <andythenorth> it's all too heavy 23:10:23 <andythenorth> but nvm 23:10:35 <andythenorth> removing stuff takes time :P 23:10:36 <Yexo> but doing one or two vehicles this way shows you which part is too heavy and needs to be templated 23:10:56 <andythenorth> yeah, no argument 23:11:23 <planetmaker> g'night Terkhen 23:15:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well. i built a parser that generates a tree that generates the switches... THAT's clunky :p 23:16:22 <Yexo> hehe, and after that nml builds another tree from those switches :p 23:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the graphics look like this then: date:(default:pruss,1924..1928:DRGearly, 1929..1949:DRG,>=1950:epoch3:(DB:DB,default:DRG)) 23:18:36 *** TheDude [~honza3@2.237.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [] 23:26:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-81-107-138-246.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120104111456]] 23:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> wth did oberhÃŒmer break now 23:35:43 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: Sla Mutant Co-Op for Renegade - coming back soon] 23:36:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i should probably implement some syntax checking 23:40:48 *** Elukka [~Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:45:46 <Yexo> 3 "fix" commits for cets and it still fails compiling :p 23:46:24 <Yexo> you need some script that disallows pushes when it fails to compile 23:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... that runs correctly here... 23:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Server returned an error: HTTP Error 502: Bad Gateway 23:49:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's certainly none of my errors... 23:50:47 <Yexo> oh, I looked inside cets-r516-build.err.log not noticing the wrong revision in that file 23:51:56 <Yexo> good night 23:54:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-97-155.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:54:25 *** Snail_ [~jacopocol@CPE78cd8e5ccf20-CM78cd8e5ccf1d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd