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00:01:28 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:09:39 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:14:03 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:14:45 <andythenorth> hmm 00:15:00 <andythenorth> the solution I have for global constants is just *not* better than the c pre-processor way 00:15:08 <andythenorth> ${global_constants.truck_type_nums.fifth_wheel_truck} 00:15:19 <andythenorth> instead of NUM_TRUCK_TYPE_FIFTH_WHEEL 00:15:35 <andythenorth> although it is at least mostly explicit where it's getting the value from 00:29:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f47bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:23 <andythenorth> good night 00:35:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 00:40:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:44:15 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e4dd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:44:44 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:45:26 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:45:40 <cypher> This is what I call a fuckload of iron ore. http://i39.tinypic.com/8yyp20.png 00:53:22 *** Strid__ [~Strid@c-2dcfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:57:22 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-4bc9e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:08 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-109.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:01:47 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:01 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:16:18 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B1CF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:43 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 01:22:57 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:29:31 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 01:30:02 *** Elu is now known as Elukka 01:34:59 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 01:42:01 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-26-197-253.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:59 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:38:53 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:51 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:58:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has joined #openttd 03:04:00 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 03:04:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CDD7.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:48 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-57.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:11:45 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:59 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-101-195.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 03:19:30 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:787b:f134:c649:abb] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:20:46 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 03:33:33 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:48:21 *** lollercaust [~paper@212.Red-83-55-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:21 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:19:48 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has joined #openttd 04:24:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:25:19 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has joined #openttd 04:30:01 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has joined #openttd 04:30:53 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:34:51 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:41:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.10.97] has joined #openttd 04:41:10 *** KouDy2 [~KouDy@115.133.9.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:33 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:08:33 <xiong> For "Show time in minutes rather than days" is this purely visual or is there an effect on play? Is this a simple substitution of 1 minute for 1 day? 05:40:58 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:27 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:51:34 *** Sergio [be376e75@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 05:52:10 *** Sergio is now known as Guest1184 05:55:09 <Guest1184> hey 05:55:43 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:11 <Guest1184> hola 05:56:40 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-245-45.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:56:43 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:59:37 *** Guest1184 [be376e75@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 06:02:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-182-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:08:07 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-232-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:08:40 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 06:13:20 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-245-45.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:45:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@84.183.63.184] has quit [] 06:45:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74314.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:04:13 *** yorick_ [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:26 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 07:25:17 *** eQualizer [~lauri@a91-153-112-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:50:39 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has joined #openttd 07:52:00 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:59:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:00:08 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #openttd 08:04:45 <Eddi|zuHause> austrian steam engines are a huge mess... 08:06:27 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:06:43 * Rhamphoryncus swears at tropic refurbishment for finally giving him the highest speed box car.. but splitting it into 3 types, one of which being slower than the others and thus dictating the speed of his entire line 08:08:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Clearly such things require a very different style of play, one I have not discovered yet 08:09:19 <Elukka> i think it requires accepting that sometimes trains have to stop at signals :P 08:09:40 <Elukka> it would be nice if trains knew to slow down when needed so they wouldn't have to come to a complete stop 08:09:58 <Rhamphoryncus> I have a high volume trunk line. They *need* to be in harmony to move effectively 08:12:09 <Rhamphoryncus> I was thinking that. Check the speed of the train in the block ahead (actual speed, not max speed), distance to our signal, etc, and slow down a bit 08:13:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Path signals need some concept of caravaning too, so they'll use that and stick to their line normally, but switch to the other lane when it's nice and open 08:13:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Or a way to put speed rules on lanes :P 08:16:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually, multiple rail types could do that. Expensive high-speed rail could get a mild penalty for slow-speed vehicles 08:21:30 <Elukka> well, they already know to pick an empty line between two equal choices (except that one has a train somewhere down the line) 08:21:49 <Elukka> there was the speed signs patch a long time ago... i think it died 08:23:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:39 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn-xdsl-77-86-195-47.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 08:26:34 <Rhamphoryncus> Picking an empty line with path signals doesn't work. They switch lines *far* too often. I do have a priority merge by abusing presignals, but I need to redesign it to move them faster 08:35:16 <planetmaker> don't build line switches. Just build your hubs that each lane can go each other on branches 08:38:21 <Rhamphoryncus> So transfer at stations? Or don't transfer, just pass through? 08:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think we need to split the early austrian railway into several, just "kkStB" doesn't cut it 08:38:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm thinking StEG, KFNB and SB for starters 08:40:30 *** Twofish [~Twofish@box80-64-205-146.static.sdsl.no] has joined #openttd 08:41:27 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 08:45:39 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 08:46:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Interesting idea.. rather than a rolling merge do a stopping merge. I could also just have a 6-wide waiting area. The point is to suck up the backlog in an efficient way, rather than letting it propagate back through the line 08:48:10 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: i think the openttdcoop people called that a "tight packer" 09:03:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:10:57 <dihedral> greetings 09:17:23 <Rhamphoryncus> Heh. Just did a manual autorefit 09:24:59 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.10.97] has joined #openttd 09:25:34 <Elukka> i am so happy cargodist binaries are again available 09:29:12 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.10.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CDD7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 09:37:45 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.193] has joined #openttd 09:38:03 *** DayDreamer [~DayDreame@178.248.252.193] has quit [] 10:02:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, sure it's needed? And... what are those new abbreviations? 10:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the problem is that the development in austria is kinda reverse to the development in germany. the first railways were state-owned and later privatize 10:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> so around 1900 you get lots of similar engine types 10:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the abbreviations are: SB: SÃŒdbahn, StEG: Staats-Eisenbahn Gesellschaft and KFNB: Kaiser Ferdinand Nordbahn (i think) 10:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> where it's my impression that those are the three biggest 10:07:20 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly also the ÃNWB (österreichische Nordwestbahn) 10:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> where the north and northwest of austria actually means modern czechia :) 10:11:39 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-57.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 10:21:52 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:32:01 <planetmaker> I see. Well. I'm not familiar with the evolution of railways in that area really. If the diversity or amount of engines justifies a split - why not. On the other hand one could make a unified core (as now) and just allow three different expansion settings for that 10:32:53 <Rhamphoryncus> I found a use for break vans! 10:33:28 <Rhamphoryncus> When a UFO lands nearby.. you buy one, 'cuz they're free, and leave it in the depot. This avoids having to fix orders that involve said depot. 10:33:56 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 10:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't really matter whether it's free. as long as it's stopped, you don't pay anything and get the full price back (afaik) 10:36:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:37:29 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:40:27 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 10:42:00 <Rhamphoryncus> It doesn't depreciate when stopped? 10:56:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 11:01:11 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 11:14:05 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/IMG_3475.jpg 11:14:07 <Elukka> trainsssss 11:14:26 <kais58> 11:15:20 <Elukka> the painting in the background looks a tad out of place... 11:20:05 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 11:23:46 <Ammler> heffer: how does fedora solve the license issue with opensfx? 11:24:56 <Ammler> I got requests to submit openttd to the standard repos 11:25:08 <Ammler> but there opensfx wouldn't be allowed 11:25:27 <Ammler> (suse) 11:32:34 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111221202647]] 11:41:33 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@75-141-134-16.dhcp.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #openttd 12:05:43 <planetmaker> Ammler, providing OpenSFX is not necessary really... important is really only OpenGFX as base graphics to make the game start at all 12:13:21 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:22:54 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> dear cat. you are now standing right in front of my screen. would you please bother to move away from there? 12:35:10 <Arafangion> Eddi|zuHause: Why should it? ;) 12:44:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-32-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:50:54 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-232-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:30 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-000-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:25:36 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:28:09 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has joined #openttd 13:30:29 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:33:44 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:37:06 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:43:59 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-122-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:31 *** Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-000-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:02:25 *** creeper [54190a43@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:03:34 *** creeper [54190a43@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:05:43 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:18:29 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-80-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:22:45 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:9f0:ff7e:7396:e2ed] has joined #openttd 14:22:48 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:23:53 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-32-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-27-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:28:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 14:32:44 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:33:31 <Rhamphoryncus> "I'll just replace these old oilwell trams with some trains. Sure, they'll cost a lot more, but they'll amuse me, and I'm sure they'll so outstrip demand that I can do amusing but inefficient layout!" 14:33:49 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-80-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:03 <Rhamphoryncus> said wells have been operating for quite some time and are at 2.4 million litres/month x_x 14:55:28 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:08:39 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:11:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:12:31 * andythenorth found a very sane way to do globals in python templating 15:19:23 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 15:19:34 <tensai_cirno> morning 15:19:37 <tensai_cirno> oh, evening 15:19:45 <tensai_cirno> is there developer channel? 15:20:12 <tensai_cirno> I'm playing around with alpha-stage port of OpenTTD for Blackberry PlayBook tablet 15:25:19 <Rubidium> there's no specific openttd port/patch developer channel; most of that just happens in here 15:26:31 <tensai_cirno> Rubidium, okay. Looks like I figured out my little hurdle. 15:37:21 *** TheBrick [~chatzilla@g187024.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:37:41 <TheBrick> hello there 15:38:38 <Rubidium> hi 15:38:48 <TheBrick> I've got about 20 hours to spend contributing to this project. got anything to do for me? 15:38:59 <TheBrick> I've got basic programming skills 15:39:03 <Belugas> hello 15:39:18 <TheBrick> hey 15:39:45 <TheBrick> or is there a todo list somewhere that I can take a look at? 15:40:09 <Rubidium> the "to do" items are all pretty complex 15:40:17 <Rubidium> though... do you have Mac OS X? 15:40:26 <TheBrick> nope windows, sorry 15:40:42 <TheBrick> I could fetch a virtual machine maybe 15:41:29 <TheBrick> if there's brainless grinding work to be done, I'd be happy to do it 15:42:23 <Rubidium> the only brainless stuff to do is fixing some of all the warnings/errors Doxygen generates 15:42:31 <Rubidium> i.e. document/fix documentation 15:43:22 <TheBrick> could I spend 20 hours on that and make significant headway? 15:44:38 <Rubidium> I guess you could write a significant amount of documentation, though start with the simple stuff unless you want to figure out how the complex functions really work 15:45:17 <Rubidium> the advantage is that you can usually stop somewhere midway with documentation and it's not unfinished, just some stuff isn't documented yet 15:45:49 <Rubidium> whereas trying to write some feature or fix a bug within 20 hours might be take too much to get it to completion within that time 15:45:51 <TheBrick> sounds like a job. is it separate documentation, or do I have to put comments into the code? 15:46:18 <TheBrick> fixing bugs is something I could likely do 15:46:51 <TheBrick> I'm just not very familiar with C++'s specific features and depths of hell 15:50:07 <TinoDidriksen> What is the need for OS X stuff? 15:50:39 <andythenorth> OS X has lots of open bugs 15:50:58 <andythenorth> enough that dropping OS X support has been considered 15:52:14 <TinoDidriksen> Nobody has OS X to work on it? 15:52:31 <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=%5BOSX%5D 15:53:53 <andythenorth> meanwhile, for those who claim they can code but not draw: http://blog.benstrong.com/2010/11/learning-to-draw-and-blog.html 15:55:46 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:26 <andythenorth> 'some people' have OS X 15:56:37 <andythenorth> some of those people don't fix bugs 15:56:46 <glx> TinoDidriksen: the main problem is you have to redo everything when a new OSX version is out 15:56:48 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:59:38 <TinoDidriksen> Why? There's no project files for Mac? 16:01:38 <glx> big parts of API get deprecated when a new version is out 16:01:48 <TinoDidriksen> Oh OS X version.. 16:01:51 <TinoDidriksen> Right 16:05:51 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:06:07 <tensai_cirno> http://i.imgur.com/FXsYB.jpg 16:06:10 <tensai_cirno> it works :D 16:07:02 <planetmaker> TinoDidriksen, for OSX you should (also) be familiar with Objective C(++) and the specific OSX APIs 16:07:17 <TinoDidriksen> ...or just use Qt 16:08:10 <planetmaker> lol? 16:08:25 <planetmaker> how's that a solution? 16:08:44 <planetmaker> one could at the same time - and simpler - demand to use SDL 16:08:58 <planetmaker> and spend time in making that work nicer on OSX 16:09:16 <planetmaker> but all that won't help really. Or at least not quickly 16:09:30 <planetmaker> one of the main issues is that OSX is quite hard to virtualize 16:09:39 <planetmaker> thus you cannot well create test environments. 16:09:51 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:57 <planetmaker> And that the API deprecates quickly 16:10:20 <planetmaker> thus you're forced to re-write stuff which works fine on version X, but ceases to compile on version X+2 16:10:23 <TinoDidriksen> Qt's QGraphicsView could do the graphics OpenGL accelerated, and Qt on OS X has a very nifty deploy script that bundles all required libs into a .dmg. No need to fiddle with platform specific APIs. 16:10:54 <planetmaker> good. Then fiddling with apple apis is replaced by fiddling with qt apis 16:11:18 <planetmaker> what is gained then? 16:11:24 <planetmaker> Given that qt is used nowhere? 16:12:00 <planetmaker> and usually given that native APIs tend to be faster? 16:12:08 <tensai_cirno> Which OS-level API's are used? Threading, files, network stack. 16:12:22 <tensai_cirno> SDL used for graphics, sound and input 16:12:23 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:12:29 <planetmaker> SDL is not used on osx 16:12:34 <tensai_cirno> e 16:12:42 <tensai_cirno> why? 16:13:22 <glx> because it often fails maybe 16:13:26 <planetmaker> it's osx support is worse than the native api 16:13:28 <__ln__> because it has various bugs of its own. 16:13:28 <TheBrick> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3939?project=1&order=tasktype&sort=asc&pagenum=5 this seems like something I could do. is this request still applicable? 16:13:47 <planetmaker> and the osx SDL version is kinda buggy 16:14:21 <TinoDidriksen> Well, making a Qt project would mean one project that would work on WinXP+, Linux, OS X. I might take a stab at that in 2-3 months time...going to invest in a real Mac instead of my current VirtualBox one that I use for building my Qt apps. 16:14:51 <glx> sdl is not used for windows port either 16:15:28 <planetmaker> TinoDidriksen, adding a Qt backend certainly is a project on its own. Maybe it's worth it. But maybe also not 16:15:38 <planetmaker> I'm not sure how well it really supports the platform specifics 16:16:45 <tensai_cirno> Could anyone point me, where code for save/load dialogs located? Application crashes, when I'm trying to leave sandbox. 16:16:47 <TinoDidriksen> So far, all the Qt stuff I've done as "just worked" on all platforms. 16:17:17 <tensai_cirno> TinoDidriksen, there are lots of platforms, where Qt doesn't work 16:17:20 <glx> tensai_cirno: should be in a _gui.cpp file 16:17:22 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:29 <tensai_cirno> including toasters powered by NetBSD 16:20:44 <planetmaker> tensai_cirno, what is used on OSX is ApplicationServices, CoreServices, Cocoa (for video, input and music), QuickDraw (optional video) 16:20:57 <tensai_cirno> planetmaker, ouch 16:21:07 <tensai_cirno> i guess it's pretty hard to maintain 16:21:16 <planetmaker> thus the usual frameworks which *should* be used on OSX 16:21:20 <planetmaker> but ... they change :S 16:21:54 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:22:06 <planetmaker> and worse, there's quite some reports which I can't reproduce as they seem to depend on certain hardware arrangements 16:23:48 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.10.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:39 <glx> like blitters planetmaker ? 16:24:55 <planetmaker> that's tricky terrain, yes 16:25:22 <planetmaker> and it's not like I'm going to buy several macs just for test purposes ;-) 16:29:19 <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=osx&project=1 <-- and it needs mostly adoption for osx 10.7 (Lion) 16:29:51 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:30:36 <spongie> Hi guys. Is there an image or info on the optimal 2 track balancer. I have two tracks in the same direction, so far all the "sollutions" online present different problem. 16:31:22 <planetmaker> define "optimal" 16:31:48 <spongie> when I use pre signals i have the problem that a train might start moving towards the switch and then get blocked by a speedy train on the other track 16:31:50 <planetmaker> I dare say there is no 'optimal' as the "best" solution depends on the circumstances and the definition of "best" 16:32:17 <spongie> when I use path signals they mysteriously halt the trains sometimes even though a clear path is obviously available. 16:32:34 <spongie> almost as if it takes time to calculate the reservation 16:32:44 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_Page <--- did you look through that wiki or the related blog? 16:32:50 <spongie> indeed. 16:34:06 <spongie> both the coop site and the regular openttd wiki examples of this result in this behavior since both are using either pre signals or path signals 16:36:14 <spongie> planetmaker: what would you consider the best solution? 16:36:17 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:39:27 <TheBrick> sorry to bother you people, but I would like an opinion from a developer about this issue: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/3939?project=1&order=tasktype&sort=asc&pagenum=5 it sounds like something I could do, unless it's dangerous code to work on, or if it's not applicable anymore 16:40:13 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:40:25 <TheBrick> I'm mostly interested in the sorting issues 16:43:23 <TheBrick> or if there's a place in the forums for these kind of topics, I'd be happily referred to that 16:46:08 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:47:54 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:34 *** Polsie [4daacf84@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:52:46 <Polsie> I have a question 16:53:08 <Polsie> i've downloaded the patch for big maps... 16:53:24 <__ln__> that's not a question, that's a statement. 16:53:25 <Polsie> but were must i place that patch? or how do I run that one? 16:54:53 *** Polsie [4daacf84@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:55:07 *** polsie [4daacf84@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:55:21 <polsie> so have anyone a solution? 16:56:09 <polsie> because i can't solve it 16:56:26 <Rubidium> polsie: see http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=21678 16:57:51 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:59:14 <polsie> I didn't understand it al... 17:01:14 <Elukka> it's probably the fourth post you should look at 17:01:26 <Elukka> though i remember trying that one time and it didn't work for whatever reason... 17:06:06 <planetmaker> spongie, as said: there's no general answer. It really depends on the exact circumstances. I'd build a good system with prios where side lines merge and maybe a shift-mainline system 17:07:41 <planetmaker> TheBrick, it's a bit difficult. Not all info are available prior to join. But a solution making use of the existing info should not re-invent the wheel but use the existing sorting framework 17:08:53 <TheBrick> alright. I'm familiar with sorting algorithms, so it sounds like a good idea to try? 17:10:41 <planetmaker> TheBrick, there are other parts which might be nice to fix. Like if you use the OpenGFX+ BigGUI NewGRF you'll notice that there are several places where the sprite size is not properly taken care of in the GUI 17:11:08 <planetmaker> like the x close button on the top left of some windows 17:11:16 <planetmaker> or the <- or -> arrows in some places 17:13:06 <TheBrick> alright, is there a buglist entry for this? 17:14:00 <planetmaker> not sure 17:14:10 *** George is now known as Guest1227 17:14:13 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 17:15:43 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has joined #openttd 17:17:27 <TheBrick> if there is, I cannot find it. could you do me a favor and open one for this issue? That makes it clear cut for me and a nice place for discussion 17:17:47 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 17:19:01 <planetmaker> how does it make it clearer? :-) 17:19:18 <planetmaker> and yes, one can also just open reports with patches attached 17:19:53 *** Guest1227 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:22:19 <spongie> planetmaker: its the shift mainline thingy im wondering about 17:23:17 <planetmaker> spongie, it will make sure that the lines are used absolutely unbalanced :-) 17:24:42 <spongie> ok. basically, I have an extra track in the same direction as the mainline and im looking to take some load of the first track 17:25:10 <spongie> my mainlines are usually LLRR 17:25:49 <spongie> and although it sorts of balances with either the pbs or pre signal solutions, theres still a fair amount of erronous shifting and blocking 17:26:32 <TheBrick> I'll see what I can do, planetmaker, but I'm unfamiliar with everything here (project, game, codebase, forums, etc) so I'm looking for directions on how to get started with all this. I have to reference my work here, so an existing bug that I work on sounds like the best approach 17:30:41 <spongie> ok 17:30:44 <spongie> oops 17:32:43 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:03 *** polsie [4daacf84@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:34:09 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 17:36:33 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 17:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i solved the mac port issues: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/play-games-on-mac.jpg 17:40:12 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 17:42:15 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:10 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-90-13.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:47:33 *** spongie [~peter@h-11-201.a254.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:48:05 <planetmaker> TheBrick, alternatively you could of course try to improve an AI or write a nice goal script for OpenTTD 17:48:21 <planetmaker> Or write for example a bot logging the commands via the admin port 17:48:38 <andythenorth> isn't this the solution to OS X issues? http://www.apple.com/support/bootcamp/ 17:48:40 *** Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 17:48:45 <planetmaker> those might be projects which are possibly easier contained and don't require you to dig that deeply into OpenTTD's vast source code base 17:49:50 <planetmaker> AIs and goal scripts are written in squirrel, OpenTTD provides a more or less extensive API. And there are libraries available 17:50:17 <planetmaker> For such logging script you might use whatever you like. There exist libraries to access the admin port in both python and java 17:50:31 <dihedral> here 17:50:31 <planetmaker> To my knowledge at least. Other non-published stuff might exist 17:51:10 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-27-237.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:53:06 <TheBrick> thanks for the info, planetmaker. are you familiar with an AI that could use some work? AI is one of my favorite subjects, and I know a lot of the basics (probability, all kinds of search algorithms, machine learning) 17:54:48 <planetmaker> Well... Most AI luckily are GPL-licensed, so one can start with any. "Need" work is relative... I'd suggest to talk to Zuu. He's quite much into writing AI and scripts and libraries for them 17:55:04 <planetmaker> Hi might also give you more detailed ideas and might welcome contributions to one of his AIs 17:55:50 <planetmaker> You find a number of AI projects here: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/aidev 17:56:23 <planetmaker> Hm, though Zuu's might not yet be there :-) 17:56:57 <TheBrick> is he online on IRC here somewhere? 17:57:03 <TheBrick> I don't see his name 17:57:17 <planetmaker> then he's currently not online 17:57:24 <TheBrick> is he online often? 17:57:40 <planetmaker> relatively regularily, yes 17:57:45 <planetmaker> European evening hours 17:57:54 <TheBrick> alright good. I hope to talk to him tonight 17:58:21 <planetmaker> if / when you're registered to tt-forums.net, you could write him a message there 17:58:33 <TheBrick> good idea 17:59:09 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/superlib <-- his library for AIs 17:59:28 <planetmaker> which also gives you the names of his AIs 17:59:32 <planetmaker> in the description 17:59:47 <planetmaker> And as it's a scripting language... downloading the AI will give you their source, too 18:00:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b96a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:03:13 <TheBrick> I can't download the SuperLib repository for some reason 18:03:28 <TheBrick> Error: OPTIONS of 'http://hg.openttdcoop.org/superlib" target="_blank">http://hg.openttdcoop.org/superlib': 200 Script output follows (http://hg.openttdcoop.org) 18:03:33 <TheBrick> sigh I'm such a noob at this 18:03:58 <TheBrick> trying to checkout the svn base 18:07:35 *** chester [~chester@95-28-158-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 18:07:50 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-1-73.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd 18:09:02 *** Anteu [~Anteus@ppp-94-65-105-153.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 18:09:03 <Anteu> http://rakenews.com Free $ from poker! 18:09:05 *** Anteu [~Anteus@ppp-94-65-105-153.home.otenet.gr] has left #openttd [] 18:10:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e06d2be.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:12:39 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:15:30 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:39 <TheBrick> planetmaker: looks like someone is working on the BigGUI sprite issues as we speak http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50095&start=20 18:15:56 <TheBrick> wait 18:15:59 <TheBrick> that's you, haha 18:16:21 <planetmaker> :-P 18:17:26 <TheBrick> I'll be back after dinner and see if I can fix these things 18:17:32 <TheBrick> bye for now, and thanks. 18:17:43 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 18:18:03 <planetmaker> you're welcome 18:24:34 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:00 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:27:55 *** polsie [4daacf84@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:28:53 *** polsie [4daacf84@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 18:33:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:34:10 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:00 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:36:00 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 18:36:15 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:39:56 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:40:32 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:45:09 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-104.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 18:52:18 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:55:52 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 18:56:33 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:54 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 19:21:06 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:22:20 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:23 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:24:26 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 19:33:09 *** bondmain_ [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:34:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23874 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt lithuanian.txt): 19:34:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:34:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by Snail_ 19:34:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 11 changes by Stabilitronas 19:35:07 *** bondau [~bondmain@C-59-100-116-94.bri.connect.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:42:35 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:42:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:43:50 <frosch123> he, citydomination is not even by zuu :o 19:44:09 <frosch123> why did i search for zuu yesterday? :p 19:47:10 <Alberth> the one and only king of the squirrel scripts? ;) 19:47:54 <frosch123> yeah, i just assumed that any script must be by him :) 19:48:11 <frosch123> then i was confused that someone else replied to my bug report :p 19:57:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6CC19.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:58:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:58:31 <Alberth> hi andy 20:00:50 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:00:59 <tensai_cirno> by the way 20:01:08 <tensai_cirno> right mouse button used only for scrolling map? 20:01:10 <Chris_Booth> Hi! 20:01:50 <tensai_cirno> i want to implement scrolling with double-finger gesture 20:02:05 <frosch123> rmb can also be used to show tooltips 20:02:25 <frosch123> the depotview also has a speical ctrl+right click tooltip 20:02:33 <frosch123> minimap is also scrolled using rmb 20:02:33 <tensai_cirno> tooltips for what? 20:02:54 <frosch123> those thingies which pop up after some seconds 20:03:09 <frosch123> instead of the delay than can also be shown via rmb 20:03:18 <frosch123> there is an advancted setting for that 20:03:30 <frosch123> tooltips via rmb is the traditional ttd method 20:03:35 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CDD7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:36 <frosch123> delay is more modern 20:04:04 <andythenorth> evening 20:04:13 <frosch123> but i think in the train depot the rmb tooltip always works, since it is not suitable to do that kind of tooltip via an hoover delay 20:04:35 <tensai_cirno> usual tooltips could be sacrificed. 20:04:46 <tensai_cirno> rmb+click on trains in train depot? 20:05:29 <tensai_cirno> yep, I see 20:05:44 <tensai_cirno> first time noticed them 20:06:12 <tensai_cirno> Well, playbook can detect up to 4 fingers, I think I'll work around that somehow :) 20:06:38 <frosch123> even ctrl+rmb+click 20:12:31 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.210.240] has joined #openttd 20:20:54 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:24:17 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:35 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-202-93.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 20:27:18 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:27 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:40 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 20:29:35 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:31:50 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 20:33:27 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 20:36:11 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:57 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 20:44:07 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823a56.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:44:46 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:47:27 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:08 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:51:01 <V453000> hi, when I need to load a newGRF on a dedicated server, how do I download the content which is missing for that savegame? 20:51:12 <V453000> so that the server loads it correctly 20:51:48 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:51:59 <planetmaker> V453000, via rcon 20:52:08 <Chris_Booth> V453000: you have to make sure that the newgrf is on the server 20:52:10 <planetmaker> but on our servers use !content and it should do the rest for you 20:52:26 <V453000> yeah but it isnt the current content 20:52:32 <V453000> there is an older version of a bananas newgrf 20:55:43 <planetmaker> which NewGRF (incl. md5sum) do you miss? 20:58:26 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:59:34 <V453000> I am already sending those grfs to them 20:59:49 <V453000> but for exaple basecosts 3.2 is in the save, but on bananas is 3.2.1 as latest 21:02:05 * andythenorth starts a not-quite-a-guide 21:02:05 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=993667#p993667 21:05:59 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 21:06:02 *** tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #openttd 21:12:11 <V453000> [2012-02-01 21:18:06] dbg: [net] Loading game failed, so a new (random) game will be started! [2012-02-01 21:18:07] dbg: [net] Generating map, please wait... this could be caused only by incorrect version right? 21:12:19 <V453000> I am sure I have the version correctly 21:13:49 *** Rezt [~Rezt@81-178-202-93.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:17:40 *** vodka [~paper@212.Red-83-55-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 21:18:47 <Chris_Booth> might be you are loading an unsafe grf config 21:18:51 <Chris_Booth> or have grf errors 21:21:29 <Terkhen> hello 21:21:55 <andythenorth> hola Terkhen 21:21:58 <andythenorth> que tal? 21:23:33 <Terkhen> fine, I just finished moving to a new room :) 21:26:38 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:31:01 *** vodka [~paper@212.Red-83-55-54.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:55 *** zsoltbp [5400faf8@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:34:59 <__ln__> i'm not sure it's an entirely positive thing that there are only three HDD manufacturers left in the world... 21:35:54 <TheBrick> partly positive is a greater demand for SSD => cheaper SSDs 21:40:15 <valhallasw> TheBrick: in general higher demand leads to more expensive products 21:40:26 <valhallasw> however, a high demand will also stimulate competition 21:40:50 <TheBrick> I mean there is a high demand for low priced SSDs 21:41:01 <TheBrick> so yes, competition for low prices 21:42:04 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.44.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:07 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:47:27 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 21:50:43 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120123235200]] 21:56:14 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 21:57:32 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:59:51 *** chester [~chester@95-28-158-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:04 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:05:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it fair to say your generator is a pure code generator? 22:05:32 <andythenorth> rather than some horrible frankenstein of code generator + substitution-templating 22:05:53 <andythenorth> I'm overlooking the CPP, just referring to the python 22:08:16 <andythenorth> I want to draw a line somewhere that says "either choose simple templating, or learn how compilers work, but don't mix them, it's hell" 22:09:55 <andythenorth> (in a templating guide) 22:10:17 <frosch123> oh, "grf" is short for "graf dracula"? 22:20:09 <andythenorth> did I make any mistakes yet? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58390 22:20:12 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:20:26 <andythenorth> otherwise I move onto the more interesting bit. that's all pre-amble 22:20:43 * andythenorth fears lack of sleep = tpyos 22:32:50 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 22:32:50 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:51 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:44:00 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:46:51 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 22:47:57 <Terkhen> good night 22:52:47 *** Firzen [~Neon@dslb-094-219-122-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.] 22:53:06 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: ttw.sla-company.net - free first person shooter based of c&c 3] 22:55:47 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-102-164.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 22:58:39 <cypher> I just thought of a way to compute matrix determinant with On^64 complexity. May I get my Nobel prize please? 22:59:38 <andythenorth> does it compile nml faster? 22:59:49 <__ln__> since when is ordo notation used without parentheses? 22:59:54 * andythenorth wonders 23:00:28 <andythenorth> is there any harm in duplicating about 95% of the code in a newgrf several times? 23:00:39 <andythenorth> it might be a brute force way to do things like FIRS economies 23:00:54 <cypher> __ln__ : since I'm inventing things. 23:01:10 <cypher> andythenorth : Probably not. 23:01:46 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:01:47 <andythenorth> it's probably a huge waste of file size anyway 23:02:10 <andythenorth> and nmlc would barf on duplicate identifiers, so they'd have to be made unique 23:02:53 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 23:03:12 <cypher> I still thing it's a good idea. Think about it. For 4x4 matrix it's 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 operations, so for 2048*2048 TTD map, it's probably somewhat more. 23:03:53 <cypher> *think 23:04:34 *** MJP [~TdlQ@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:33 <TheBrick> I'd say that's an impressive feat 23:05:44 <TheBrick> coming up with such an order of complexity 23:05:53 <TheBrick> are you sure it would actually work? 23:06:45 <frosch123> hmm, i think i only learned to compute them with n!, but wiki says there are n^3 algorithms 23:07:13 <cypher> TheBrick : I'm almost positive. 23:07:23 <TheBrick> do a test run :P 23:08:46 <cypher> I only thought of it while studying for linear algebra exam, I didn't actually write it. See, I have a cheap HP laptop and no fire alarm whatsoever... 23:08:48 <frosch123> oh, apparently i never learned how to compute a determinant effectively... it's so obvious when i read it... 23:09:45 <cypher> frosch123 : how uneffectively did you do it? Was it anywhere near say... n^5? 23:09:58 <cypher> I think i'm gonna turn that into a competition. 23:10:24 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:10:28 <frosch123> no idea how to do it in n^5. i can only do it in n! or n^3 23:10:41 <frosch123> if you limit the band width, it becomes linear though 23:10:53 <TheBrick> just do bogosort with 128 bit numbers 23:11:18 <cypher> Anyways, I'll rather plug myself off. 23:11:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:11:53 <Rubidium> isn't O(n!) > O(n^c) 23:12:27 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:12:29 <planetmaker> it is 23:12:38 <frosch123> O(n!) > O(c^n) > O(n^c) 23:12:55 <frosch123> except for certain small values of c :) 23:13:21 <Rubidium> you mean c <= 1? 23:13:28 <frosch123> yip :p 23:15:31 <TheBrick> bogosort is O(infinite), isn't it? so I'd win 23:16:11 <frosch123> ottd 1.2-beta3 uses bogosort :) 23:16:11 <Rubidium> just do heapsort with choochoo comparator 23:18:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b96a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:20 *** itp [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:21:52 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:29:22 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 23:34:28 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@client-82-31-3-132.midd.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120123235200]] 23:36:33 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:40:41 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:59 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:48:32 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 23:50:02 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has quit [] 23:51:33 *** David [~chatzilla@142.179.78.88] has joined #openttd 23:52:07 *** David is now known as Guest1264 23:58:58 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AD5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]