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00:00:09 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.73.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:00:17 *** JohnWhite [~57f73c62@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:05:00 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 00:06:23 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.181] has joined #openttd 00:08:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:11:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.114] has joined #openttd 00:15:08 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.77.220] has joined #openttd 00:16:27 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.72.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:51 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:20:22 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:28:52 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:39:34 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:08 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:57:35 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08f251.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 01:06:39 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.3.130] has joined #openttd 01:31:03 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:15 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:53:38 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 01:57:28 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:57:30 <Rhamphoryncus> augh, I just tried to scroll using WASD. I blame minecraft. 01:59:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-087-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:34 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 02:07:22 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:45:31 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:46:46 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d809:8471:d8ec:caea] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:05:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:55 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 03:06:52 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 03:10:57 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0aae05.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 03:11:44 <Rhamphoryncus> NARS isn't giving me the 1890 livestock car. I can only get the 1800/1845 cattle car and the 1961 modern livestock car. Fresh game, no other newgrf's, "vehicles never expire" + resetengines doesn't help. Any way I can try to debug it? 03:14:07 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:14:07 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 03:28:04 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0a7c19.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 03:29:47 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0aae05.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:37:42 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e0a7c19.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:39:56 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a3488.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 03:40:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 03:46:44 <Rhamphoryncus> And having an express car that can do 160 km/h, but requiring a caboose that can only do 128 km/h, is just cruel. 03:48:19 <Nat_aS> who was making the Unrealistic train set? 03:50:28 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a3488.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:02:42 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:06:03 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:06:14 <DanMacK> Hey all 04:08:42 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e01fffa.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:09:17 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:10:20 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:13:32 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:15:42 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e01d9ac.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:18:51 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e01fffa.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:20:02 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:20:43 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 04:23:56 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e01d9ac.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:23:56 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 04:35:03 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2015th%20Feb%201951.png how should I expand this station? 04:35:27 <Nat_aS> I want to add more platforms, but I also want to make a junction so I can have a branch line heading north 04:36:24 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%207th%20Aug%201951.png this is normaly how I expand stations, but I have no room to do that here. what do? 04:56:10 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-108-91.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 05:01:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-47-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:13:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_aS: rotate it? 05:13:20 * Rhamphoryncus hits 'x' futilely in firefox 05:13:34 <Nat_aS> hmm 05:13:49 <Nat_aS> well I want a big station that trains can enter/exit in two directions 05:13:56 <Nat_aS> I supose I could make it 10 platforms wide. 05:14:10 <Nat_aS> with tracks spliting as they leave the station 05:14:16 <Nat_aS> but that might add a lot of traffic 05:14:30 <Rhamphoryncus> Hrm. Rotating would only help for traffic from the southeast. Not traffic from the northwest 05:14:32 <Nat_aS> Satilite platforms going both ways could mitigate that though. 05:14:51 <Nat_aS> I want to expand that station into an omega type on my chart. 05:14:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Do you ever use bridges/tunnels? 05:15:11 <Nat_aS> not usualy for stations 05:15:39 <Rhamphoryncus> They give a great deal more flexibility in layout 05:15:57 <Nat_aS> can you show me examples? 05:16:05 <Rhamphoryncus> Sure, gimme a minute 05:16:42 <Nat_aS> I like this type of station, because it looks natural, is relatively compact, and does not involve complex signaling. 05:16:50 <Nat_aS> and can scale well 05:17:16 <Nat_aS> but it has bottlenecks, and feeding two lines into a big station all at once might create bottlenecks with trains entering and exiting 05:17:58 <Rhamphoryncus> http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Double_entrance and http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Ro-Ro_Terminus 05:18:40 <Nat_aS> I don't like those designs 05:18:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, it scales for waiting trains but not really overall throughput 05:19:26 <Nat_aS> I'm thinking of making that station really wide (10 platforms) and then making two sets of satilite stations, one going N and the other going E 05:20:01 <Nat_aS> hopefully trains will only visit there satilite stations and never bother ones going on the other route, UNLESS they need to go to the main station for overflow 05:21:57 <Rhamphoryncus> The only way split/merge multiple tracks is with bridges/tunnels, otherwise you constrain your throughput to a single track 05:24:56 <Nat_aS> I'm sure I could make a nice T intersection, but the problem is doing it without running out of room 05:25:03 <Nat_aS> I also want to expand that station 05:25:24 <Rhamphoryncus> Your existing stations rely on trains rarely crossing to a different track. If they did you'd have huge backlogs 05:27:22 <Rhamphoryncus> So yeah, having what is essentially two stations might work, but it'd be fragile 05:28:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Spreading out the station would probably fix your space problem 05:28:50 <Rhamphoryncus> hmm, just had a thought.. 05:37:50 <Rhamphoryncus> http://i.imgur.com/wzhLd.png 05:38:51 <Rhamphoryncus> That is like having two satellites as you suggest 05:39:33 <Rhamphoryncus> I expect a problem though: trains won't be balanced 05:41:16 <Rhamphoryncus> The prefer platforms that are closer, which means they'll often block each other 05:42:11 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@175.137.102.137] has joined #openttd 05:42:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_aS: still there? 05:43:07 <Nat_aS> yes 05:43:53 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2024th%20Mar%201952.png this abomination is what I just made 05:44:11 <Rhamphoryncus> heh 05:44:35 <Nat_aS> most of the time trains will only visit the satellite stations, and it's like having two stations 05:44:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.3.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:44:43 <Nat_aS> but if it overflows, they go into the main station 05:44:50 <Rhamphoryncus> Ah, didn't see the town in the previous screenshot 05:45:43 <Nat_aS> it's one of the larger towns on this map 05:46:26 <Nat_aS> is that short gap between the satilite station and the sawmill station dangerous? 05:46:31 <Nat_aS> might trains get caught there? 05:46:35 <Nat_aS> and clog shit up? 05:46:49 <Nat_aS> oh, I forgot to add cross tracks, pretend they are there 05:47:11 <Rhamphoryncus> Isn't that a factory? 05:47:27 <Nat_aS> and signals 05:47:28 <Nat_aS> yes 05:47:41 <Nat_aS> but off the southeast corner is a sawmill station 05:47:46 <Nat_aS> where wood comes from 05:47:54 <Rhamphoryncus> ahh 05:48:06 <Nat_aS> (in jungle maps sawmills make wood instead of consuming it) 05:48:36 <Rhamphoryncus> Actually, they could clog going to/from the northeast satellite 05:48:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, I've played them before 05:49:01 <Nat_aS> yeah I have never attemtped anything like that angled setup 05:49:12 <Nat_aS> In fact, I should probably have the corner happen after the satilite 05:49:14 <Nat_aS> :V 05:49:30 <Rhamphoryncus> Or remove the intermediate signals 05:49:43 <Rhamphoryncus> Basically, assume that anywhere a train can wait it will wait 05:54:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B746D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:54:55 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B745D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:56:59 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2017th%20Nov%201952.png 05:57:01 <Nat_aS> here we go 05:57:49 * Rhamphoryncus nods 06:01:31 <Nat_aS> This... is an abomination 06:01:38 <Nat_aS> I have never made a station this large before 06:02:10 <Nat_aS> I have made longer though. 06:02:14 <Nat_aS> just not this wide. 06:05:01 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e018be1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 06:07:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:10:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:10:05 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 06:20:27 <andythenorth> ho 06:20:46 <andythenorth> can I specift a directory, or some sort of manifest file as a target for make? 06:21:10 <andythenorth> then it's coincidental that the scripts to build those also build 3,000 pngs? 06:22:51 *** Lackle [ad42b703@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 06:23:48 *** Lackle [ad42b703@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 06:24:18 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.77.199] has joined #openttd 06:26:44 <Rhamphoryncus> andythenorth: that's what I was working at. The main thing I found is %.c and %.o 06:27:11 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e018be1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:27:50 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.77.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:28:50 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.65.214] has joined #openttd 06:29:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Oh, that's definitely not right. I hope I didn't corrupt FIRS by turning off industry closure and setting always 100% station rating after starting the game 06:30:23 <Rhamphoryncus> My production isn't scaling to the production level.. and I just found a with 65534 crates (65535 max) 06:33:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.77.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:34:38 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 06:34:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.6] has joined #openttd 06:35:26 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus: station rating won't corrupt FIRS, unless I'm wrong 06:35:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, I assumed it'd be harmless when I did it 06:35:49 <andythenorth> it should be 06:36:17 <andythenorth> industry production is almost decoupled from stations, the only coupling is the amount distributed to stations 06:36:18 <Rhamphoryncus> And likewise on the assumption that it's still harmless I'm looking into what could give bad values 06:36:39 <andythenorth> industry closure should be harmless, but I'd have to read code to be sure 06:36:55 <andythenorth> and it's too early for that, and I lack tea 06:37:15 <Rhamphoryncus> It's 20 to midnight. Definitely too early ;) 06:37:50 <Rhamphoryncus> var_supply_storage is at -2 06:38:42 <Rhamphoryncus> or alternatively 65534. Max storage is only corrupted when displayed, as derived from var_supply_storage, so it's not involved 06:39:00 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.79.106] has joined #openttd 06:39:57 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.65.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:40:55 <Rhamphoryncus> max(LOAD_PERM(var_supply_storage) - LOAD_PERM(var_supply_requirement), 0), // does this work in NML? 06:43:43 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.58] has joined #openttd 06:47:06 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.79.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:51:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Found the bug. The supply ratio is calculated before subtracting the monthly consumption, but not acted upon until after. 06:55:57 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:56:35 <Rhamphoryncus> So if it needs 6/month to maintain and it needs 18 to increase then it can use 6+18=24, putting it into the negative. Dunno why I didn't experience it before. 07:00:32 *** KingPixaIII [~pixa@85.210.71.78] has joined #openttd 07:01:42 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:05:32 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-149.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:42 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:13:01 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 07:13:55 <Rhamphoryncus> The monthly production seems fine. Apparently I missed how low the per-month production is compared to base industries, so I was surprised they're not rising into the 2k/month range 07:16:11 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:17:23 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:20:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:24:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:48:41 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:51:29 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:52:21 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:56:09 <andythenorth> oh 07:56:12 * andythenorth broke his repo 08:00:06 <andythenorth> case folding collisions 08:10:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:14:38 <andythenorth> oh ffs 08:14:50 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has joined #openttd 08:15:29 <andythenorth> why make a vcs that happily destroys your repo on non-case-sensitive filesystems, with no warnings 08:15:42 <andythenorth> non-case-sensitive is hardly uncommon 08:16:18 * andythenorth is fed up of the illusory nature of mercurial 08:16:59 * andythenorth has lost the BANDIT repo 08:17:59 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:18:18 <planetmaker> hu? 08:18:27 *** Twofish [~Twofish@77-95-76-210.bb.cust.hknett.no] has quit [] 08:18:38 <planetmaker> moin 08:18:44 <andythenorth> maybe I can fix it after some tea 08:18:49 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:18:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what did you do? 08:18:52 <andythenorth> tea reduces grumpiness and confusion 08:19:07 <andythenorth> changed the case on some file names, some time ago 08:19:39 <planetmaker> and then...? 08:20:05 <andythenorth> all appeared fine 08:20:17 <andythenorth> but if I try hg up <prevrev> 08:20:20 <andythenorth> case collissions 08:20:34 <andythenorth> I've followed the instructions for fixing it, but now have multiple heads, and no fix 08:20:52 <planetmaker> that sounds not like destroyed 08:21:24 <planetmaker> and what does a case collision look like? 08:21:37 <planetmaker> (exact message) 08:24:24 <planetmaker> a random guess on my part is: you used like "hg up <rev>", got a case collision somewhere, ignored it. And the commited while hg didn't actually update due to the case collision as it does not want to overwrite files unless forced 08:24:27 <planetmaker> can that be? 08:25:30 <andythenorth> not quite 08:25:49 <andythenorth> you can't "hg up <rev>" if there are case collisions, it simply aborts 08:26:03 <planetmaker> yep 08:26:42 <planetmaker> if you then hg up -C it's dangerous for uncommited changes 08:26:47 <andythenorth> I *did* notice that hg didn't seem to care when I changed the filenames 08:27:00 <andythenorth> which I thought was odd, I expected to have a changeset from them 08:27:20 <planetmaker> how did you change the case of filenames? 08:27:43 <andythenorth> rothrock_r504.psd became rothrock_R504.psd - for consistency with other files 08:28:17 <andythenorth> the fix appears to be http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7595538/how-to-solve-a-mercurial-case-folding-collision 08:28:31 <andythenorth> which I've tried, to no success so far 08:28:53 <andythenorth> I also have two unwanted extra heads in my local repo 08:29:08 <andythenorth> and the project can no longer be cloned, which is why I think I've lost this repo :( 08:29:19 <andythenorth> I might have to manually copy all files into a new repo, and start from r0 08:29:37 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:13 <andythenorth> (fresh clone from devzone can't update to tip due to case-collisions) 08:31:54 <planetmaker> let's see 08:33:03 <andythenorth> indeed, there must be a fix without drama ;) 08:33:12 <planetmaker> devzone has only one head 08:33:22 <andythenorth> I didn't push any new ones :) 08:33:33 <andythenorth> don't want to make it worse with a broken fix 08:33:44 <planetmaker> what's your changes relative to there? 08:34:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:34:18 <andythenorth> wrt tip in my repo and tip remote? 08:34:26 <planetmaker> your repo wrt devzone 08:34:53 <andythenorth> is there a quick way to diff between the two? 08:34:57 <andythenorth> or I can list manually 08:35:15 <planetmaker> hg outgoing might tell 08:35:45 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1194/ 08:35:57 <andythenorth> I have two changesets, one to remove the .psd files and one the .png 08:36:13 <andythenorth> I should have done both in same operation, but I didn't know about the .png 08:36:54 <andythenorth> hmm 08:37:05 <andythenorth> "One way to repair such a repository is to check it out on a case-sensitive Unix system, remove the problematic file, and commit it again." 08:38:02 <planetmaker> ok, the creation of heads is you commiting two different changesets based on the same revision. That primarily has nothing to do with cases, I'd say. Or? 08:38:21 <andythenorth> +1 08:38:35 <andythenorth> yes, the heads are a consequence of the fix, not a cause 08:38:50 <planetmaker> do you have outstanding changes? 08:39:11 <andythenorth> in short yes 08:39:22 <andythenorth> but they could be sorted out manually 08:39:23 <planetmaker> in short? 08:39:32 <planetmaker> well, save them to a diff 08:39:43 <andythenorth> they aren't outstanding for tip, but they are for whatever rev I'm currently on 08:39:50 <planetmaker> or commit them 08:40:45 <planetmaker> don't worry about creating yet another head ;-) We can merge later 08:40:51 <andythenorth> k 08:42:10 <planetmaker> can you paste the output of "hg glog -l10" ? 08:42:28 <andythenorth> sure 08:42:31 * andythenorth enables glog 08:43:04 <planetmaker> oh, that's an extension? :-) 08:43:27 <planetmaker> no 08:43:45 <planetmaker> not here at least 08:43:51 <andythenorth> "<command> | open -f" is very handy on os x 08:44:02 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1195/ 08:45:17 <planetmaker> and you're now at r387, right? 08:45:37 <andythenorth> yup 08:45:55 <planetmaker> then let's try to successively merge heads 08:46:06 <planetmaker> hg merge -r383 08:46:49 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 08:47:05 <andythenorth> pdq2s-macbook-3:pixel_generator andy$ hg merge -r383 08:47:05 <andythenorth> abort: case-folding collision between src/graphics/rothrock_r504.png and src/graphics/rothrock_R504.png 08:47:30 <planetmaker> and the same when you merge -r382 ? 08:47:40 <andythenorth> no 08:47:47 <andythenorth> abort: case-folding collision between graphics_sources/rothrock_r504.psd and graphics_sources/rothrock_R504.psd 08:47:47 <planetmaker> then let's do that first :-) 08:47:50 <planetmaker> oh 08:47:58 <andythenorth> this is why I was grumpy :) 08:48:05 <andythenorth> the fix I've followed isn't a fix :) 08:48:11 <andythenorth> it seems circular 08:48:20 <andythenorth> I had a vision of doing it n times, spawning ever-more heads :P 08:48:28 <planetmaker> :-D 08:48:39 <planetmaker> and you FS is not case sensitive, right? 08:48:43 <andythenorth> nope 08:48:46 <andythenorth> "One way to repair such a repository is to check it out on a case-sensitive Unix system, remove the problematic file, and commit it again" 08:49:12 <andythenorth> so I could make a disk image 08:49:24 <planetmaker> disk image? 08:49:33 <andythenorth> with disk utility 08:49:47 <andythenorth> make a case-sensitive volume, mount it, cp there, try to fix 08:49:50 <planetmaker> well, I could simply try to fix it... 08:50:06 <planetmaker> I have no volumes which are not case sensitive 08:50:12 <andythenorth> :) 08:50:15 <planetmaker> which btw, prevented me to install photoshop 08:50:21 <andythenorth> :o 08:50:35 <andythenorth> so can you try to strip the files? I don't want to push my multiple heads 08:51:03 <andythenorth> I don't mind if you simply delete both upper and lower case versions, I can put them back manually 08:52:00 <planetmaker> yes, I shall try. I only have r382 08:52:19 <planetmaker> src/graphics/rothrock_R504.png ? 08:52:23 <planetmaker> any other? 08:52:34 <andythenorth> the equivalent psd in graphics_sources 08:52:47 <andythenorth> I don't know of others, but there may be some, I didn't find a way to check yet 08:53:15 <planetmaker> ah. There's now both files, upper and lower case 08:53:20 <planetmaker> which version do you want to keep? 08:53:34 <andythenorth> upper please 08:53:36 <planetmaker> ok 08:53:37 <andythenorth> ah 08:53:41 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:53:42 <andythenorth> devzone sees both too 08:54:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.102.137] has joined #openttd 08:54:21 <planetmaker> any other files with the same problem? 08:54:28 <andythenorth> ok, manual check on devzone, I don't see any 08:54:34 <planetmaker> ok, me neither 08:54:35 <andythenorth> just the psd and png for r504 08:56:19 * planetmaker authorizes himself for commit access :-P 08:56:27 <andythenorth> :) 08:56:36 <planetmaker> done 08:56:55 <andythenorth> \o/ 08:57:04 <andythenorth> I can discard local heads now? 08:57:20 <planetmaker> make it easy for you and a backup copy: 08:57:27 <planetmaker> cp -r bandit old.bandit 08:57:35 <planetmaker> or rather mv bandit old.bandit 08:57:38 <planetmaker> and then clone devzone 08:57:39 <andythenorth> k 08:57:55 <planetmaker> only delete the old repo when you're sure you have everything 08:57:59 <andythenorth> yup, works 08:58:17 <planetmaker> after all you could also still export all your changes or even pull from your old repo 08:58:47 <andythenorth> oh how interesting 08:58:52 <andythenorth> I have new clone 08:58:58 <andythenorth> but still can't up 378 08:59:07 <andythenorth> but I can now up tip 08:59:10 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@175.137.102.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:42 <andythenorth> planetmaker: can you up 378? 08:59:44 <planetmaker> yes, I guessed so 08:59:53 <planetmaker> sure 09:00:42 <planetmaker> rothrock_R504.png and rothrock_r504.png in r378 09:00:46 <andythenorth> yup 09:00:56 <andythenorth> and the mac won't allow that on non-case-sensitive FS 09:01:09 <planetmaker> yup 09:01:15 <andythenorth> so the fix is to rm from that rev? 09:01:25 <andythenorth> as per http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7595538/how-to-solve-a-mercurial-case-folding-collision 09:01:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Hmm. 20 km/h bus. 80 km/h train. This sounds like a recipe for Fun. 09:01:55 <andythenorth> or actually from the rev where I introduced the issue, which I don't know yet 09:02:24 <planetmaker> you could try that as described there, yes 09:02:47 <andythenorth> r268 I think 09:02:51 <planetmaker> but that would for you after a commit not change r378, but create a new revision, r384 which has r378 as parent 09:05:13 <andythenorth> also I just tried it, and it doesn't solve the issue 09:06:29 <planetmaker> what exactly are you trying now? 09:07:39 <andythenorth> following instructions exactly as per link above, using r268 and removing all r504 and R504 files 09:07:42 <andythenorth> doesn't work though 09:08:35 <planetmaker> ok, let me ask: why do you now want a revision which has this collision? 09:09:49 <andythenorth> I'm trying to diagnose a bug which I think I introduced in r378, but can't verify 09:10:13 <andythenorth> [so want to up 378 and build] 09:10:26 <planetmaker> did you switch file systems since then? 09:10:35 <andythenorth> nope 09:11:34 <planetmaker> should I commit a head based on r378 which removest he offending files? 09:11:40 <andythenorth> please 09:11:43 <andythenorth> sorry 09:12:21 <planetmaker> there 09:13:25 <andythenorth> he 09:13:51 <andythenorth> clean clone, case-folding issues for up tip, up 384, up 378 09:13:59 <andythenorth> ok 09:14:00 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:14:07 <planetmaker> hm? 09:14:09 <andythenorth> so maybe it's time to make a case-sensitive disk image 09:14:24 <andythenorth> there's a lesson in this somewhere, not sure what yet :P 09:14:31 <planetmaker> well, 378 will not work for you on non-case sensitive 09:14:36 <andythenorth> no 09:14:48 <planetmaker> 384 should. Unless there's more files than the one png 09:17:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what hg version do you use? 09:17:38 <andythenorth> 1.9 09:17:51 <andythenorth> I tried upgrading it earlier, but macports refuses to update the ports tree :P 09:18:03 <planetmaker> I wanna see what the hg say to this 09:18:08 <planetmaker> *hg guys 09:18:09 <andythenorth> it was a frustrating morning ;) 09:18:25 <planetmaker> #mercurial on freenode, if you care 09:19:11 <andythenorth> I should do later 09:19:28 <andythenorth> I have to stop neglecting the kids now :o 09:19:53 <andythenorth> ho my ports tree update succeeded 09:19:54 <planetmaker> :-) 09:21:08 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:30 <SpComb> ya, case-sensitivity can be hard on VCS's 09:24:22 <SpComb> I had a problem where I renamed some files and only changed their case, and hg didn't notice - then when I did a separate build checkout, it created a broken build (wrong filename case) 09:24:47 <SpComb> then I sillyly fixed that `hg mv ...` in the build repo, and trying to merge that case-change commit back into the master repo was... hard 09:29:35 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:30:12 <andythenorth> SpComb: similar issue to mine :| 09:47:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has joined #openttd 09:48:56 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178196062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:54:20 *** Enorian [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has joined #openttd 09:54:38 *** Enoria [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:02:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:06:44 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:12:11 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-45-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:12:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:18:14 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-108-91.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:32 <Ammler> planetmaker: the histroy of mercurial is not case sensitive, they use _ for case 10:28:52 <Ammler> but of course, the workcopy is 10:29:15 <Ammler> but you could fix it and then andy can up to a fixed version 10:34:08 <planetmaker> we figured, yes 10:34:29 *** hbccbh [~hbc@113.93.70.104] has joined #openttd 10:40:09 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:43:15 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-45-143.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:47:57 <Rhamphoryncus> So.. on a lark I've discovered that the pathfinder does, in fact, care about track speed of nutrack.. which means you can have a dual mainline with both highspeed and lowspeed and the highspeed trains do prefer the highspeed land. The lowspeed lanes can then be pushed using a PF penalty (reversed path signal) 10:48:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Not sure if it really improves network efficiency though, or if it's just a side effect of having a dual mainline 10:50:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Anybody played with that before? 10:52:00 *** KingPixaIII is now known as Pixa 10:54:58 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02789966.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 10:57:48 <Ammler> planetmaker: and what would you like to ask #mercurial ? 10:58:55 <Ammler> ah, you are there too :-P 10:59:43 <planetmaker> :-) 11:00:17 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:03:54 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:39 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@02789cc3.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:08:30 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02789966.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:08:30 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 11:21:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 11:21:54 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:22:16 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:27:31 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02789cc3.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:29:23 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a4da4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:34:21 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:09 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:44:55 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a4da4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:47:07 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a3f58.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 11:52:10 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e09eeb8.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:56:34 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:54 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 12:06:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-73-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:06:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:07:22 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:08:58 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 12:09:05 *** KingJ [~KingJ-OFT@95.154.197.17] has joined #openttd 12:11:52 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [] 12:11:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-97-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:14:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a3f58.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:19:52 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:20:11 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02788f83.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:20:52 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0835bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:23:52 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 12:25:44 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@5e08deed.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:27:17 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 12:28:35 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02788f83.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:28:35 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 12:28:59 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:33:25 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:34:23 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:35:46 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:21 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08deed.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:45:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@0278e6b1.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:54:01 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:24 *** Muxy [~Muxy@main.goulp.net] has left #openttd [PACKET_CLIENT_QUIT] 12:58:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@0278e6b1.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:747f:3f81:7f24:a684] has joined #openttd 13:02:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:05:13 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@027aefbc.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:06:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-20-165.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:10:46 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc: "src/../src/bav/18.gnml", line 115: All parts of the ternary operator (?:) must be integers. <-- is that an nml bug? 13:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1196/ <-- the essence of the offending code 13:15:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the property line is alright, the callback line is not 13:16:46 <Rhamphoryncus> Try replacing 8 with 8.0 13:16:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Wait, misread >.> 13:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how should that help anything? 13:17:23 * Rhamphoryncus makes up something about being tired. Which he should be, but isn't. 13:17:58 <Eddi|zuHause> (besides... checking for vehicle_is_stopped is nonsense... running costs are 0 then anyway)# 13:19:00 <Rhamphoryncus> does that include stopped at a signal? 13:19:03 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no 13:19:22 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 13:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> only when player clicks the stop button 13:19:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Then why is being stopped at a depot's implicit signals treated specially? (vehicle_is_in_depot) 13:19:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@027aefbc.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not the author of this feature... that's a separate discussion :p 13:20:15 <Rhamphoryncus> oh okay 13:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh... devzone is so useless when javascript is disabled... 13:23:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i can't change the filter on the ticket list without javascript... wtf? 13:23:49 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you don't have javascript? 13:23:57 <Ammler> please use another browser 13:24:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i disabled javascript. 13:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> makes for way smoother general browsing experience... 13:24:20 <Ammler> so what is the issue? 13:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the issue is that something as simple as an "apply" button shouldn't need javascript 13:24:44 <Ammler> maybe you can maek exceptions 13:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i can also eat a ton of caviar. doesn't mean i want to. 13:28:10 <Ammler> not sure, you can :-P 13:28:23 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the timeframe :p 13:30:27 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 13:31:00 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 13:32:59 *** lugo [bc6f57fe@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:33:47 <Belugas> hello 14:06:36 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:07:01 <NGC3982> evening, duders. 14:13:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:16:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: BANDIT is fine on a case sensitive disk image P 14:16:33 <andythenorth> bah :) 14:17:45 <planetmaker> yes, of course 14:18:13 <planetmaker> that's why I had no trouble creating the revs I committed earlier today ;-) 14:18:38 <planetmaker> But I got so far no answer how to avoid your trouble on case insensitive FS 14:19:12 <andythenorth> "just don't do the things that caused this issue" :P 14:20:12 <andythenorth> also, /me concludes that captain rand may be an idiot 14:20:15 <planetmaker> well, yes. But that's a good advise but no good method to prevent the mishap 14:20:27 <planetmaker> whom? 14:21:51 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:22:05 <andythenorth> in that silly v2.0 thread. You upset him I think :) 14:22:21 <andythenorth> hmm. statements like this: "If we would like TT to last another 20 years and bring in new players and contributors, the two halves need to become whole" 14:22:42 <planetmaker> oh. Well, who cares 14:22:45 <andythenorth> always this fricking obsession with new players. 14:23:12 <planetmaker> well, new players are important. But you won't gain them by his proposed convergence. 14:23:14 <andythenorth> yeah, because the reason people are playing WoW is because they checked out TTDP and OTTD and are cross that there are features different between them 14:23:22 * andythenorth should have some tea 14:23:25 <andythenorth> some days are grump days 14:23:28 <planetmaker> Rather by deviating more and embracing better (G)UI and ease of use 14:23:42 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:23:49 <planetmaker> not by adding custom bridge heads and programmable or restrictive signals 14:24:03 <Pikka> boo, planetmaker, boo 14:24:10 <planetmaker> :-) 14:24:34 <andythenorth> oh it's pikka-bobble :) 14:24:38 <planetmaker> Pikka, it's not like I'm against those features. But... I doubt they are crucial for a person to like the game :-) 14:24:39 <andythenorth> he always cheers me up 14:24:45 <planetmaker> or any significant amount of people 14:25:00 <Pikka> true! 14:25:07 <planetmaker> indeed I think at least custom bridgeheads will be quite nice. 14:25:27 <planetmaker> Pikka, reference was this funny openttd v2.0 thread 14:25:35 <andythenorth> silly thread 14:25:43 <andythenorth> it should be in the suggestions forum, where I mostly don't go :P 14:25:51 <andythenorth> suggestions forum is just /dev/null right? 14:26:02 *** zxbiohazardzx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:26:12 <zxbiohazardzx> y hello thar :P 14:26:25 <planetmaker> nah, not exactly, andythenorth . But you can go wild there w/o penalty ;-) 14:26:29 <Pikka> well the lack of custom bridgeheads is keeping SAC out of OpenTTD, so that's one argument against implementing it I suppose. 14:26:37 * Pikka goes to make tea 14:26:48 * planetmaker offers Pikka some freshly brewed tea 14:26:58 <zxbiohazardzx> lol Pikka 14:27:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: tea for two? 14:27:03 <Ammler> what about good old coffee? 14:27:04 * andythenorth needs tea 14:27:10 * zxbiohazardzx needs coffe 14:27:12 * andythenorth is staring into a nappy 14:27:16 <zxbiohazardzx> e fail more 14:28:17 <Ammler> planetmaker: you have a ppc mac? 14:28:27 <zxbiohazardzx> anyway i had a question on the scenario-creator's rock tile placement feature 14:28:35 <zxbiohazardzx> where is that in the sourcecode? 14:28:40 <zxbiohazardzx> i assumed src/widgets 14:29:33 <zxbiohazardzx> but that mainly has .h files 14:29:55 <planetmaker> Ammler, no 14:30:13 <zxbiohazardzx> aka it only defines teh Enums in terraform_widget.h 14:30:44 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 14:30:56 <planetmaker> zxbiohazardzx, what makes you believe that rocks are placed anywhere in the GUI functions? 14:31:02 <planetmaker> (aka widgets) 14:31:17 <Pikka> I got halfway through making coffee before I remembered I wanted tea :) so I am having coffee after all. 14:31:19 <planetmaker> I'd try like terragen* or map_gen or similar 14:31:22 <zxbiohazardzx> as far as i recall it was part of the landscape toolbar in the scenario generation? 14:31:32 <zxbiohazardzx> well i didnt expect the placement to be there 14:31:36 <planetmaker> toolbar != feature itself 14:31:42 <zxbiohazardzx> but i expected some sort of hint where to look for the feature 14:31:45 <zxbiohazardzx> :P 14:33:07 <planetmaker> consider looking at map_* and terraform* 14:33:43 <planetmaker> maybe also genworld* 14:33:51 <zxbiohazardzx> ok thx 14:34:40 <zxbiohazardzx> was trying to see if we can manually place buildings as well, similar to rock placement,(real buildings not newobject fake ones) 14:35:35 <planetmaker> for the SE that might be nice 14:35:51 <zxbiohazardzx> yeah 14:35:53 <planetmaker> iirc some patch to that extend existed somewhen somewhere 14:36:10 <planetmaker> you might want a similar GUI like the station or new object placement offers 14:36:29 <zxbiohazardzx> that would even be better then my idea 14:36:35 <zxbiohazardzx> id just make it go random XD 14:36:54 <zxbiohazardzx> being able to actually pick a building might really offer some nice features in the SE 14:36:58 <planetmaker> as you need a way to select the house (with 'random' being an option) 14:37:07 <zxbiohazardzx> making a "downtown" area and "suburbs" etc 14:37:15 <zxbiohazardzx> yeah sounds fair enough 14:37:34 <zxbiohazardzx> ill check if i can find that patch, it might get me started a bit more :P 14:37:40 <planetmaker> but beware of pitfalls. Houses may decide to not be buildable everywhere :-) 14:38:18 <zxbiohazardzx> maybe first run the check and only build it if allowed regardless of why it cannot be build (slopes etc i ) 14:38:22 <zxbiohazardzx> but lets start with the basics 14:38:26 <andythenorth> hmm 14:38:30 <zxbiohazardzx> then thik of fancy other stuff :P 14:38:48 <zxbiohazardzx> think* omg whats wrong with my hands today 14:42:23 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:43:38 <zxbiohazardzx> hate searching for old patches, specially if you dont know a name or forumpart, sofar on page 6 or 7 without it :P 14:44:01 <zxbiohazardzx> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=48851 14:44:06 <zxbiohazardzx> and the second you say it, you find it 14:44:07 <zxbiohazardzx> ofc 14:48:43 <zxbiohazardzx> ill first try to just update patch to a more recent version, see how that works out :P 14:48:43 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:51:30 <zxbiohazardzx> damn SVN errors :S 14:51:38 <zxbiohazardzx> Compression of svndiff data failed 14:51:58 <zxbiohazardzx> 62.07MBytes transferred 1 min 45 seconds, the operation failed 14:52:14 <zxbiohazardzx> but /care i got the stuff in :P 14:58:03 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-097-087-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:59:25 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-097-087-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 15:00:37 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:01:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:04:52 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-73-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:06:03 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-85-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:06:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:08:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-100-162.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:11:07 <zxbiohazardzx> in window_type.h 15:11:31 <zxbiohazardzx> i think you changed the WC_BUILD_OBJECT etc lines to add comments? 15:14:07 <planetmaker> zxbiohazardzx, for developing patches a distributed VCS like hg or git is easier to use 15:16:01 <Ammler> why does openttd check for timidity? 15:16:24 <Ammler> (the configure) 15:16:33 <planetmaker> it's a possible sound driver 15:16:45 <planetmaker> thus it can link against libtimidity 15:17:40 <planetmaker> configure checks for each library it can link against (on the build platform) 15:18:47 <Ammler> hmm, maybe I should check if music works then 15:19:11 <Ammler> or is that completely independent from openmsx, where timidity is required 15:19:40 <planetmaker> yes 15:19:54 <planetmaker> might be needed for any sound. thus music or sound 15:20:05 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 15:20:28 <Ammler> but if openttd doesn't find it on building, openmsx will still work? 15:21:25 <planetmaker> depends whether it has another sound device. But iirc sound and music can in principle also play on the null device 15:21:36 <planetmaker> the enjoyment factor might be low, though 15:22:08 <Ammler> timidity is there, just not while building openttd 15:22:19 <Ammler> that is why I wondered about that 15:22:42 <planetmaker> then openttd will not link against it. Of course it would need its devel libs in order to do so 15:22:58 <planetmaker> like with every lib: you need it at build time. Or it will never be used 15:23:31 <planetmaker> (or rather you need it's development headers) 15:23:47 <Ammler> since when is that the case? 15:23:52 <planetmaker> ever 15:23:57 <Ammler> he :-) 15:24:06 <Ammler> so suse openmsx never worked :-P 15:24:27 <planetmaker> it might use other sound devices 15:24:44 <planetmaker> did you never check the builds you put into suse? 15:24:46 <Ammler> I speak about music... openMsx 15:25:39 <Ammler> music works just fine 15:25:53 <Ammler> fail alarm, that configure output was confusing 15:26:18 <planetmaker> how do openttd's sound driver and openmsx relate at all? 15:26:19 <Ammler> so openttd does not need timidity on building to have openmsx working 15:26:22 <zxbiohazardzx> Planetmaker yeah i know hg/git and i use that for the wow devment 15:26:24 <zxbiohazardzx> but for now svn works 15:26:34 <zxbiohazardzx> just wondering about that change in window_type.h 15:26:53 <zxbiohazardzx> the old patch just added a line WC_BUILD_HOUSE, 15:27:22 <zxbiohazardzx> between WC_BUILD_OBJECT and WC_INVALID = 0xFFFF 15:27:23 <Ammler> btw. how do you control music on the openttd main menu? 15:27:36 <zxbiohazardzx> but the current one has alot more comments there 15:28:10 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:28:39 <planetmaker> Ammler, not. 15:28:51 <planetmaker> it's imho a missing UI thing 15:29:20 <Ammler> could be added to the GameOptions beside the menu where you chose the music set 15:29:22 <zxbiohazardzx> also planetmaker did nobody ever considered adding CMake to the project (i know they did that @ TrinityCore to make cross platform compilation less of a pain 15:29:32 <zxbiohazardzx> sidetracked again :p 15:31:42 <planetmaker> zxbiohazardzx, obviously at least you did 15:31:55 <Ammler> esound-daemon gstreamer-0_10-plugin-esd libao-plugin4-esd libaudiofile0 libesd0 openmotif-libs openttd-openmsx timidity <-- a lot additional package come with openmsx :-) 15:32:37 <zxbiohazardzx> well adding it is a pain as my coding skills are very much limited 15:32:58 <zxbiohazardzx> now the questions i had on the code so i can continue bumping that older patch to head 15:33:03 <zxbiohazardzx> in window_type.h 15:33:30 <zxbiohazardzx> old patch just added the WC_BUILD_HOUSE 15:33:30 <zxbiohazardzx> 15:33:32 <zxbiohazardzx> WC_BUILD_OBJECT, 15:33:32 <zxbiohazardzx> + WC_BUILD_HOUSE, 15:33:32 <zxbiohazardzx> WC_INVALID = 0xFFFF 15:33:41 <zxbiohazardzx> but new code has way more comments there 15:34:30 <zxbiohazardzx> and alot more stuff in between WC_BUILD_OBJECT and WC_INVALID that i assume is needed for all kinds of stuff 15:34:54 <zxbiohazardzx> mostly wondering what comment to stick on top of it, i assume WindowFunction: %Window numbers: 15:34:59 *** Markavian [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:35:23 <zxbiohazardzx> then - 0 = #NameWidgets? 15:35:48 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-2-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:36:29 <zxbiohazardzx> and teraform_gui.cpp similar question, as that got revamed 15:36:44 <zxbiohazardzx> i assume ETTS -> WID style there refering to the widget 15:39:05 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 15:40:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:01 * zxbiohazardzx is now away - Reason : back in 2 hours... 15:41:52 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-85-70.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:03 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:12 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=999762#p999762 <-- simply answering with "please no double postings" might be rude, but I'm quite tempted 16:02:10 <andythenorth> I'd start by asking his age 16:02:24 <andythenorth> well I wouldn't, because I'm a bad person to get into forum wars :P 16:02:53 <andythenorth> I'd be surprised if he was >15 16:05:12 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:05:15 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:05:31 <Alberth> moin 16:06:53 <andythenorth> Alberth: :) 16:07:13 <andythenorth> you have finished your week, done honest work, earnt honest money? :) 16:10:41 *** Strid [~Strid@c-81c4e455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 16:10:43 <Pikka> bongiorno Alberth 16:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> boingo boingo? 16:12:16 <Pikka> says you, buddy 16:12:36 <planetmaker> bunga bunga 16:12:58 <supermop> am i invited to that? 16:16:50 <Alberth> andythenorth: sort of, but 'honest' is somewhat tricky if you don't really like what you are doing :p 16:16:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08d600.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:17:09 <planetmaker> :-( @ Alberth you don't? 16:17:25 <Alberth> writing Eclipse extensions is not much fun 16:17:33 <andythenorth> at least you keep the Eurozone productive :P 16:17:57 * andythenorth got paid recently, so today has helped the economies of France, Denmark, and China 16:18:03 <andythenorth> mostly Denmark :P 16:18:26 <supermop> yes 16:18:28 <Alberth> :) 16:18:39 <supermop> danish petrochemical solids 16:18:43 <andythenorth> what comes from Denmark? Plastic bricks :P 16:19:01 <supermop> my favorite commodity 16:20:32 <andythenorth> hmm 16:20:40 * andythenorth ponders what to code next 16:21:04 <Pikka> what are the options? 16:21:24 <andythenorth> (1) cleanup my python to not be technically invalid 16:21:33 * Pikka codes Brush Class 92s 16:21:34 <andythenorth> (2) fix some very boring positions of magic pixels 16:21:54 <Pikka> not being technically invalid is always good. 16:21:55 <andythenorth> (3) figure out how to actually configure and run pixa 16:21:57 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:22:01 * andythenorth likes 3 16:22:08 <Pikka> hmm 16:22:18 *** bolli [~bolli@87.113.137.77] has joined #openttd 16:22:32 <bolli> hi 16:22:47 <bolli> i have a question for the linuxy people out there... :P 16:23:07 <bolli> can i control a background process without bringing it to the foreground? 16:23:23 <Ammler> kill 16:23:48 <planetmaker> if you refer to openttd and running it as a server: use screen and run it inside that 16:23:58 <bolli> ok... 16:24:30 <Alberth> bolli: 'kill' is more versatile than its name suggests :) 16:24:58 * planetmaker mostly uses -9 as option :-P 16:25:13 <bolli> ahh 16:25:15 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e08d600.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:15 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 16:25:15 <bolli> thanks :) 16:25:30 <Ammler> planetmaker: you really should upgrade your system :-P 16:25:41 <planetmaker> ? 16:25:41 <andythenorth> -9 ftw 16:25:45 * Alberth tries to avoid -9 very much :) 16:25:47 <bolli> so what would -9 d? :P 16:25:50 <bolli> *do 16:26:00 * andythenorth wonders if sudo kill -9 * works 16:26:00 <Ammler> if you need -9 that often, something is very broken 16:26:09 <andythenorth> you need -9 that often ;) 16:26:14 <planetmaker> terminate process without any questions asked or notifications given 16:26:15 <andythenorth> at least once a month or so 16:26:25 <planetmaker> Ammler, who says that I need it? 16:26:31 <Ammler> :-) 16:26:33 <Alberth> planetmaker: and without giving it the chance to cleanup in any way 16:26:38 <planetmaker> Alberth, I know 16:26:46 <andythenorth> it doesn't deserve a chance imho 16:26:53 <andythenorth> bad processes should be punished 16:27:18 <Alberth> better not even start bad processes :) 16:27:22 <planetmaker> ^^ 16:27:53 * andythenorth could tell stories about printjobmgr using 200% of CPU while trying to print to a printer 5 miles away 16:28:04 <andythenorth> but instead....pixel generator? 16:28:07 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:27 <Ammler> no andythenorth, tell the story, don't waste time with pixels 16:28:28 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:29:44 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178196062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:31:00 <Ammler> Alberth: wanna update our hook to check for case sensitive issues? 16:31:07 <Alberth> Ammler: but a picture is worth a thousand words :) 16:31:51 <Alberth> Ammler: in what way 'case sensitive issues' ? 16:32:36 <Ammler> mercurial is able to handle abc.nml and ABC.nml in same dir 16:32:49 <supermop> planetmaker: better to buy a new lens with VR first, or a new body with better features? 16:33:00 <Alberth> Ammler: it should :) 16:33:07 <Ammler> but if you have a case insensitive fs, you won't be able to update to that rev 16:33:18 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has joined #openttd 16:33:26 <_maddy> hi folks, anyone up for a multiplayer game? 16:33:48 <supermop> assuming i have under 1000 usd to upgrade my slr so will have to do it piecemeal 16:33:54 <planetmaker> supermop, in case of doubt invest in lenses 16:34:11 <Ammler> _maddy: join a existing server maybe? 16:34:13 <Alberth> Ammler: ok, I can have a look. I have completely forgotten how it works though, so no idea if it can be done 16:34:25 <_maddy> Ammler: I'm looking for a coop game 16:34:26 <planetmaker> features on a camera body don't matter, if the lenses are bad. 16:34:48 <planetmaker> _maddy, why don't you then join one of our coop servers? 16:34:49 <Ammler> Alberth: just in case the current script running on our server: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/file/1e2e71379ba5/mercurial/hooks/check_commit.py 16:35:32 <supermop> my lenses are ok now 16:35:34 <planetmaker> supermop, what you might consider though, is to avoid the lenses which won't fit a full-frame camera 16:35:58 <supermop> just the nikkors that came with it in 2005 16:35:59 <planetmaker> one might want to upgrade to one later, maybe 16:36:03 <supermop> yeah 16:36:14 <supermop> but fx bodies are very expensive 16:36:30 <_maddy> planetmaker: what coop servers? I only know of openttdcoop 16:36:32 <Alberth> Ammler: ok, thanks. Is that all my code? The final two functions are not documented 16:36:32 <supermop> and fx lenses much more expensive than dx equivalents 16:36:37 <planetmaker> _maddy, so do I ;-) 16:36:46 <Ammler> Alberth: I think so 16:36:54 <supermop> but could use fx lenses on my 35mm 16:37:02 <Ammler> the only thing I might have changed are config 16:37:23 <planetmaker> supermop, I'm not too familiar with nikon's naming scheme. dx=? fx=? 16:37:30 <Alberth> hmm, I was in a hurry perhaps, or it was clear enough at the time :) 16:37:45 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has quit [] 16:38:55 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178205080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:04 <supermop> fx is a digital sensor roughly the same physical size as a fram of 35 mm film 16:40:00 <supermop> dx is roughly the size of a frame of aps film but is pretty standard throughout digital camera bodies 16:40:11 <planetmaker> ok. So it's nikon's way to tell sensor size 16:40:20 <supermop> the fx cameras are for the 'professional' market 16:40:40 <supermop> the mounting ring and AF etc are all the same 16:40:55 <planetmaker> I'm kinda dreaming currently to buy an EOS 5 Mk III ;-) 16:41:05 <supermop> so any nikor lense since the old nikon F will fit on any nikon body 16:41:14 <supermop> and work reasonable well 16:41:37 <supermop> (i use my old circa 1978 lenses on my d50 at times) 16:41:38 <planetmaker> friends of mine are very content with Nikon's 300 whatever 16:42:02 <supermop> yeah, that is a dx one, as is my d50 16:42:45 <supermop> but metering and sensor quality has gotten much beter since 2005, even on the entry level bodies 16:42:53 <planetmaker> yep 16:43:13 <supermop> i am mostly dissatisfied with low-light 16:43:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: so....reverse generating from png names? 16:43:51 <supermop> the new bodies have isos up to the 10s of thousands that dont look noisy 16:44:20 <supermop> whereass on mine i get a lot of noise even at lower isos 16:44:35 <planetmaker> yeah, sensor quality got a lot better 16:45:02 <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, doesn't that sound like a good idea? 16:45:10 <supermop> but my other problem is that i can't always have a tripod 16:45:22 <supermop> and the new lenses can correct for vibration 16:45:23 <andythenorth> Alberth: in principle 16:45:42 <andythenorth> but I wonder chicken-egg? where are the pngs before they're generated? 16:45:46 <__ln__> https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/3/8/495 16:45:58 <planetmaker> supermop, better performance at higher ISO "corrects" for that, too 16:46:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: you give a filename after they are generated :o 16:46:13 <Alberth> ? 16:46:52 <andythenorth> currently yes 16:48:18 <supermop> the fx lenses also let more light through than the dx ones, typically 73 instead of 52mm filter size, at the expense of being heavy and bulky 16:48:24 <supermop> what body do you use? 16:48:34 <bolli> so would i use SIGPIPE with kill and pipe the command to it? 16:48:54 <Alberth> huh? 16:49:11 <bolli> i'm a bit confused about how to send the command using kill... 16:49:14 <Alberth> kill takes a PID as parameter to send the signal to 16:49:28 <planetmaker> I still have a canon 30D 16:49:36 <planetmaker> but it gets time to upgrade that, too 16:49:46 <Alberth> bolli: type 'ps ux' 16:50:00 <bolli> ok... 16:50:09 <Alberth> first column is the PID number, then type 'kill PID' 16:50:10 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:50:19 <Alberth> for a friendly nudge to close down :) 16:50:43 <bolli> ok... 16:50:50 <bolli> but i just want to send a command to it.. 16:50:51 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 16:50:57 <Alberth> don't use the PID of the shell you are using :p 16:51:58 <Alberth> it's not an input stream, kill only sends a signal 16:52:00 <Ammler> bolli: maybe you wanna use the admin interface 16:52:08 * Alberth guess that too 16:52:15 <Alberth> *guesses 16:52:35 <bolli> admin interface? 16:52:42 <bolli> i'm using the command line... 16:52:49 <Ammler> but if you are on the same host as you plan to run openttd, screen is easiest 16:53:15 <planetmaker> bolli, 'screen' is also a command. Not a piece of hardware 16:53:22 <Ammler> :-D 16:53:33 * bolli googles 16:53:34 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:41 <Ammler> but fully valid to mention that indeed 16:54:33 <Ammler> I guess, we never tried, if autopilot would work in background 16:55:58 <Ammler> bolli: screen is quite certain installed on your system already, so you could check the man page instead a random website 16:56:41 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1197/ this is one of the simplest forms, I think 16:56:51 * Alberth is afk for some dinner 16:57:17 <Ammler> for start run "screen" then run "openttd -D", then simply quit your ssh session and reconnect and run "screen -x" 16:58:28 <bolli> and how would i disconnect from that session if its in openttd? 16:58:49 <Ammler> you hit the X on your console window 16:59:00 <bolli> ok.... 16:59:13 <Ammler> "simulate" a disconnect 17:00:05 <Ammler> there are of course detach etc. for screen, which you will find in the manpage, but who uses that? :-) 17:00:13 <bolli> ok.... 17:00:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: interesting. It would need to decode which gestalt to use 17:01:01 <andythenorth> currently the filenames do encode a gestalt ID, so possible 17:02:41 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 17:04:30 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:46 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:23:31 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:26:40 *** morphium [4e547932@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:27:08 <morphium> Hey, me again. Is it possible to compile ONLY a dedicated server version of Openttd? 17:27:15 *** morphium is now known as Guest5650 17:28:53 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 17:30:16 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-097-087-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:31:01 <__mj> hi, quick question, whats the standard procedure for releasing a patch on openttd ? just post it in the forums with a description ? 17:32:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AB4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:33:29 <andythenorth> __mj: yes 17:33:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.182.227] has joined #openttd 17:33:36 <andythenorth> if it's a big patch, break it into chunks 17:34:06 <NGC3982> you know you live close to food when you can irc from your own wifi, at the pizza shop. 17:34:39 <__mj> andythenorth: like a patch for each file ? 17:34:49 <andythenorth> a patch for each logical segment 17:35:18 <andythenorth> so if you add a new hook for feature x, then that's one patch 17:35:24 *** Guest5650 [4e547932@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:35:28 <andythenorth> and the code that uses your new hook is another patch 17:35:38 *** morphee [4e547932@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 17:35:59 <andythenorth> or if you patch timetables and cargo loading, it's probably two patches etc etc 17:36:51 <__mj> well, its rather one large aspect of the game, but I will find some way to break it up somehow 17:37:17 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 17:37:55 <andythenorth> a set of small patches are more likely to be reviewed 17:38:04 <andythenorth> and nothing gets included without review 17:38:22 <andythenorth> ;) 17:38:28 <__mj> :) good 17:38:51 <__mj> its the template based train replacement patch I posted about, in about a millenium ago 17:39:04 <andythenorth> consists? 17:39:07 <andythenorth> sounds like 17:40:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.182.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:40:21 <__mj> uhm, yes, you pre-define virtual trains and tell which of your current trains shall get changed in the depot once they enter it, like autoreplacement but for whole trains instead of single vehicles 17:40:43 <__mj> based on groups for control which trains will get replaced and which don't 17:45:54 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:51:11 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:56:51 <bolli> hmm 17:57:08 <bolli> my fiddling with processes has created a "frozen" openttd copy :/ 18:03:15 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:05:22 <Alberth> 'suspend process' is also a kill signal :) 18:06:43 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@027ac103.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:07:08 <Alberth> __mj: basic rule is indeed: one logical change == one patch file 18:08:26 <planetmaker> __mj, second basic rule: after each patch, OpenTTD must continue to compile and work 18:09:35 <planetmaker> a good guide on how things can be broken down is found at various times within the commit history of OpenTTD for the majority of the non-trivial features 18:10:25 <morphee> I just give up, can't make Autopilot+ to work 18:10:30 <morphee> :D 18:11:34 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:11:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 18:14:50 <Terkhen> hello 18:15:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: wrt make....I wonder whether to just do second-simplest thing I can think of: 18:15:22 <andythenorth> - have each gestalt write out a manifest for all of its pngs 18:15:32 <andythenorth> tell make the manifest is the target... 18:16:12 <__mj> what is a reasonable number of LoC per patch ? 18:16:54 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@027ac103.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:18:01 <Alberth> loc is not that interesting, the number of conceptual changes is. 18:20:20 <planetmaker> __mj, e.g. see r23932 to r23936 for an idea of how splitting makes sense 18:21:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: irssi received SIGKILL - going byebyes] 18:23:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: hmm, nice idea. May be easier to add a check to each gestalt whether it should regenerate each gestalt (based on time stamps), and if not have it skip its generation. Then run the 5 or so gestalts in parallel. 18:23:24 <andythenorth> yup 18:23:33 <andythenorth> each gestalt should be entirely self-contained imho 18:23:41 <andythenorth> I've tried thinking of config files for them etc 18:23:43 <Alberth> also gives better options for caching data :) 18:23:56 <andythenorth> but I come back to always 'just put the config in the python' :P 18:24:32 <andythenorth> I also considered the case of a gestalt that might generate ~200 output pngs, which will be slow 18:24:42 <andythenorth> (for slow = ~10s) 18:24:57 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 18:25:10 <Alberth> one time slow is not that bad in general 18:25:21 <andythenorth> in that case, if something changes that requires regeneration, it probably requires regeneration of all 18:25:23 *** morphee [4e547932@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:25:32 <andythenorth> unless a cargo sprite changed... 18:25:44 <andythenorth> but I'd rather throw more CPU at these occasional tasks 18:25:59 <Alberth> has checking up-to-dateness any use then? 18:26:06 <andythenorth> only of the input files 18:26:10 <andythenorth> afaict 18:26:16 <andythenorth> e.g. a dep check or such 18:26:32 <Alberth> sounds likely 18:26:48 <andythenorth> user shouldn't be modifying / deleting output 18:26:54 <andythenorth> things go wrong if they do that :P 18:26:57 <andythenorth> in the grf 18:27:34 <andythenorth> shall I make pixa write a manifest? 18:28:59 <Alberth> make does need a list of targets for it to decide whether to run the command, so in that sense, yes 18:29:33 <Alberth> ie like the -M output of gcc/g++ 18:35:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host242-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:35:59 <Wolf01> hellol 18:37:08 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 18:41:58 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 18:43:41 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120228210006]] 18:43:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24019 /trunk/src/lang/french.txt: 18:43:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:43:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 24 changes by OliTTD 18:46:07 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: manifests are now generated, in a horrible way 18:48:47 <__mj> Alberth: 'loc is not that interesting, the number of conceptual changes is.' << well, it's 3 gui componentes and one big conceptual theme in my case 18:48:56 <andythenorth> it needs far too much code added to the gestalt currently :P 18:49:05 * andythenorth -> baby -> bath 18:49:14 <andythenorth> I've pushed 18:51:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:53:33 <zxbiohazardzx> back 18:53:37 * zxbiohazardzx is no longer away : Gone for 3 hours 12 minutes 37 seconds 18:53:46 <zxbiohazardzx> hmmz 18:54:11 <zxbiohazardzx> in window_type.h, i see alot changed between this old patch and new code 18:54:16 <zxbiohazardzx> mostly more comments 18:54:18 <Alberth> __mj: it's fine to consider adding 1 gui component a conceptual change :) 18:54:41 <zxbiohazardzx> can i just add WC_BUILD_HOUSE anywhere in the file or? 18:54:52 <Alberth> zxbiohazardzx: I doubt people are that interested in how many seconds you went afk 18:55:22 <zxbiohazardzx> i didnt put it for that 18:55:25 <zxbiohazardzx> im on multiple channels 18:55:34 <zxbiohazardzx> so my IRC client puts away and back statusses automatically 18:55:49 <zxbiohazardzx> so sorry for the spamzorz :P 18:56:00 <Alberth> it's not a status change here 18:56:02 * planetmaker wonders whether *anyone* could possibly interested in that 18:56:23 * zxbiohazardzx slaps planetmaker around abit with a large rainbow 18:56:28 * zxbiohazardzx take that you unicorn! 18:56:41 <zxbiohazardzx> anyway back to the contentual questions :P 18:56:57 *** bolli [~bolli@87.113.137.77] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:57:22 <zxbiohazardzx> in window_type.h can i just add a line wih WC_BUILD_HOUSE somewhere in the file or not? 18:57:36 <zxbiohazardzx> as the previous patch shows them as more of an ENUM styled list 18:57:45 <zxbiohazardzx> and they added it on the bottom just before WC_INVALID 18:57:59 <zxbiohazardzx> but now there is alot more WC_* stuff in between and comments on top of each 18:58:02 <NGC3982> hm 18:58:09 <NGC3982> im recently introduced to timetables 18:58:18 <NGC3982> i barely understand various bits of it 18:58:30 <NGC3982> though, can i set conditions based on the content of stations? 18:58:49 <NGC3982> would be neat to tell a train to visist station X only when it contains Y amount of Q. 18:58:53 <NGC3982> ;) 18:58:57 <NGC3982> -s 18:59:00 <Alberth> never seen such conditions 18:59:25 <NGC3982> i see. 18:59:28 <Alberth> I also have some doubts whether it is possible 18:59:59 <NGC3982> what we are trying to achieve is a pack of trains, waiting in depot until a big ass boat arrives with stuff. 19:00:05 <Alberth> the next order is evaluated several times, and if it changes in the mean-time, things get very tricky 19:01:19 <NGC3982> i see. 19:01:23 <Alberth> you should check the available conditional orders to verify whether I am right 19:01:37 <zxbiohazardzx> also in terraform_gui.cpp, did we stop using ETTW_stuff and replaced it with WID_stuff? 19:02:09 <Alberth> NGC3982: why not make some tracks for trains to wait? 19:02:17 <zxbiohazardzx> trying to update a patch that was up to date @ 22277 so yeah 19:02:49 <Alberth> zxbiohazardzx: stuff changed when goal scripts needed access to the gui buttons 19:02:57 <zxbiohazardzx> yeah i figured 19:03:10 <zxbiohazardzx> im just trying to get this patch back on head 19:03:49 <zxbiohazardzx> but i ran into some issues on the window_type.h (new comments, i think i added the WC_BUILD_HOUSE line correctly, but im wondering what the comment above the others exactly is 19:04:04 <zxbiohazardzx> most likely my comment will be Build house; %Window numbers: 19:05:03 <zxbiohazardzx> - #BuildHouse = #BuildHouseWidgets (or 0 - #BuildHouseWidgets not sure) 19:05:25 <Alberth> links to goal script stuff 19:05:46 <zxbiohazardzx> well old file didnt link, and thats all in comments so it will be ignored anyway? 19:06:03 <zxbiohazardzx> old file had: 19:06:03 <zxbiohazardzx> WC_GRF_PARAMETERS, 19:06:03 <zxbiohazardzx> WC_BUILD_OBJECT, 19:06:03 <zxbiohazardzx> + WC_BUILD_HOUSE, 19:06:37 <Alberth> the docs are ignored, but there is another table somewhere for the purpose of GS 19:06:41 <zxbiohazardzx> id assume i can just insert the WC_BUILD_HOUSE in after WC_BUILD_OBJECT however im not sure why all the /*comments with widgets exist, as they are ignored right?*/ 19:06:47 <zxbiohazardzx> ah ok 19:06:52 <zxbiohazardzx> then ill just add it and the docs 19:08:04 <zxbiohazardzx> hmmz ill have to check out the terraform stuff though, you really overhauled that one :P 19:08:43 <Alberth> I didn't :) 19:09:05 <zxbiohazardzx> the rest did :P 19:13:47 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 19:16:49 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-23.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:18:45 <zxbiohazardzx> also is there a list of Hotkeys i cannot use for the GUI? 19:19:18 <zxbiohazardzx> current list is QWEDUIOP for the existing ones, id like to claim H, but is there some hotkeys we cant map or? 19:22:17 * Alberth does not know 19:23:16 <Alberth> Ammler: what about enforcing a filename convention instead? 19:23:24 <zxbiohazardzx> ill just leave it as a TODO like in original 19:24:21 <Alberth> Ammler: imho that would be what you want for people with case-sensitive file systems anyway 19:32:31 <__mj> in general, is it frowned upon to skip checks for text-direction settings ? I mean if you draw your strings only in left to right direction ? 19:32:59 <zxbiohazardzx> i think most services only offer left-right directional texts 19:33:07 <zxbiohazardzx> i know twitter only swapped recently XD 19:33:51 <__mj> I always skipped the rtl checks in my code but made a few markers to maybe include it later on, in case the devs complain ^^ 19:34:12 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 19:34:34 <zxbiohazardzx> Hotkey<ScenarioEditorLandscapeGenerationWindow>('H', "house", WID_ETT_PLACE_HOUSE), // TODO: check if this is valid 19:35:05 <zxbiohazardzx> anyone see an objection against that binding, as i think its only bound when the scenario editor terraforming window is active 19:36:21 <Alberth> entire trunk does both directions 19:37:31 <Alberth> and we will thus complain if it gets that far :p 19:41:34 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:37 <zxbiohazardzx> hmmz 19:41:41 <zxbiohazardzx> i reached end of patch o_o 19:41:52 <zxbiohazardzx> so its time to eeehm go check and diff it out :P 19:43:00 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f515c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:57 <zxbiohazardzx> ow yeah building ottd stinks now i remember :P 19:45:20 <zxbiohazardzx> no cmake, no VS10 solution XD 19:46:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:46:48 <planetmaker> you're at least 50% wrong 19:47:05 <planetmaker> nor do I understand your obsession with cmake 19:47:16 <zxbiohazardzx> its wintendo user proof? 19:47:29 <zxbiohazardzx> and for me its quite fast on the world of warcraft emulation builds :P 19:47:55 <planetmaker> ./configure && make && make run 19:48:04 <planetmaker> dunno what's missing there 19:48:10 <zxbiohazardzx> :P 19:48:21 <planetmaker> and VS has its own projects 19:48:33 <planetmaker> nor does cmake magically install missing deps 19:49:57 <zxbiohazardzx> fair enough 19:50:40 <planetmaker> (and make is more cross-platform than cmake ;-) ) 19:51:01 <TinoDidriksen> CMake uses make 19:51:05 * andythenorth adventures into the fridge 19:51:08 <zxbiohazardzx> indeed it does 19:51:11 <TinoDidriksen> Or whatever else is on the platform 19:51:30 <zxbiohazardzx> oeee andythenorth, get me some icecream? 19:51:55 <andythenorth> bavarian smoked cheese? brunswick ham? Bitburger beer? Definite germanic theme in today's fridge 19:52:08 <andythenorth> saucisson sec? chorizo? 19:52:15 <zxbiohazardzx> jagermeister? 19:52:17 * andythenorth has been propping up the eurozone some more it seems 19:52:17 <zxbiohazardzx> no? 19:52:59 <Alberth> andythenorth: perhaps you should come live here too :) 19:53:14 <andythenorth> in the eurozone? 19:53:16 <andythenorth> perhaps :) 19:53:41 <zxbiohazardzx> euro = win 19:53:48 <zxbiohazardzx> stupid greece stinks though 19:53:59 <andythenorth> I think I'd prefer california - for the weather, not the food 19:55:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: any inspiration wrt make and manifests etc? 19:56:00 <Alberth> your solution is a bit reversed w.r.t. what you want, I think :) 19:56:17 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 19:58:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: quite possible 19:58:54 <Alberth> hmm, running bandit is not trivial :( 19:59:13 <andythenorth> which aspects? 19:59:28 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 19:59:30 <Alberth> ImportError: cannot import name PageTemplateLoader 19:59:40 <andythenorth> easy_install chameleon 20:00:06 <andythenorth> I have a plan for fetching deps - later though 20:01:27 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 20:04:52 *** zxbiohazardzx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:05:31 <Alberth> I installed a chameleon python package which is some zpt template language, and the loader code looks dirty enough to be from easy_install. Unfortunately, it also does not explain where it got installed :( 20:08:53 <andythenorth> is that bad? 20:10:51 <Alberth> if you want to look whether such a file exists in the package, it might be :p the manifest does not list it, so I assume it's the wrong one. 20:11:53 <andythenorth> well it sounds like you got the correct package 20:12:05 <andythenorth> tbh I have no idea how this is usually done 20:12:13 <andythenorth> I live in a world of buildout for python 20:12:40 <andythenorth> run buildout, get all deps needed, isolated to one local path, not spewed all over your system python 20:12:55 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:13:06 <Alberth> I don't have write access there :) 20:13:33 <andythenorth> usr python :P 20:13:46 * andythenorth plans to provide a buildout for BANDIT 20:13:48 <andythenorth> later 20:14:44 <supermop> wait 20:14:51 <supermop> andythenorth: http://new.dwell.com/contests/lego-modern-home-design-competition?utm_source=thisweekfromdwell&utm_content=3912&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email 20:15:05 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1198/ could be one step towards a more uniform .png name 20:15:13 * andythenorth thinks supermop will be busy now 20:15:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: surely you can that into one line :D 20:16:02 <Alberth> yes :) 20:16:03 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-097-087-124.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:28 <Alberth> return '_'.join(name if name else 'none' for name in raw) + '.png 20:17:56 <Alberth> -2 lines :) 20:23:54 <andythenorth> \o/ 20:25:27 <Alberth> from the gestalt, you can deduce the number of features, it seems 20:26:33 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 20:27:12 <andythenorth> yes 20:27:31 <andythenorth> it's quite important to know that gestalts may differ wildly from each other 20:27:52 <andythenorth> the only commonality is that they output n pngs 20:28:24 <Alberth> if you start with the gestalt in the .png name, you can use that to decode the other parameters 20:28:55 <andythenorth> so 'tipping_trailer' etc 20:29:18 <andythenorth> or 'tippingtrailer' depending on how much effort we want to put into splits 20:30:31 * Alberth wonders whether 'generate' could be lifted out of the gestalts 20:30:59 <Alberth> tipping-trailer :) 20:32:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: I tried to figure out lifting generate 20:32:56 <andythenorth> it's too specific to the combination of variables 20:33:13 <andythenorth> or configuring pixa gets too complex ;) 20:33:24 <andythenorth> I think it could be decomposed into more functions though 20:34:51 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:35:59 <Alberth> what if you put the variables and their ranges in a dict? 20:36:10 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 20:36:56 <Alberth> eg a string -> list of values mapping 20:37:07 *** Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:37:31 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:52 <andythenorth> possible 20:40:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: there's an interesting overlap with BANDIT's global_constants.py 20:40:47 <andythenorth> which has to know some stuff about available graphics 20:40:59 <andythenorth> this is rather BANDIT specific though 20:46:35 <Alberth> nothing wrong with that 20:47:29 <Alberth> you'd use a class here, I think, where the basic process is defined in the base class, and you can refine some details of the process in a derived class 20:48:07 <Alberth> but it gets a bit tricky to explain that to people not used thinking in that way 20:48:20 *** Booth is now known as Chris_Booth 20:48:39 <andythenorth> it's fine for me 20:48:50 <andythenorth> I'm happy to have gestalts inherit 20:49:04 <andythenorth> or have them use a generate class, with inheritance 20:49:38 <andythenorth> I guess my concern is making this available to people who just want to replace load sprite colours or such 20:58:37 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:59 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 21:07:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@178.119.153.135] has joined #openttd 21:11:01 <andythenorth> oh how interesting 21:11:07 <andythenorth> openttd won't build 21:11:27 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1199/ 21:11:53 <planetmaker> reconfigure 21:12:11 <planetmaker> your icu seems... strange or different 21:12:24 <andythenorth> I did a port upgrade on everything today 21:12:28 <andythenorth> not 100% intentionally 21:12:36 <Rubidium> typical upgrade of icu 21:13:00 <andythenorth> I should downgrade? 21:13:02 <Rubidium> touch src/strings.cpp src/gfx.cpp shouldsolve it 21:13:09 <Rubidium> + a make 21:14:35 <supermop> planetmaker: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00009VQG6/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1331326794&sr=1-25&condition=used 21:14:46 <Rubidium> andythenorth: a downgrade is not needed 21:14:59 <Rubidium> just a selective recompile of the stuff that is linked to ICU 21:15:02 <andythenorth> k 21:15:05 <andythenorth> thanks 21:20:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 21:28:14 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:32 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 21:29:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: so the aspect I miss - if the pngs specify the vars....how to create the pngs? manually? 21:31:51 <Alberth> I'd say you have the ranges for the values already, you just need to link them to the variables. Then you can quite easily generate all combinations, without hooking it into the generator 21:35:08 <andythenorth> so BANDIT generates the filenames? 21:35:41 <Alberth> with anything > 5 filenames, I'd prefer that very much :D 21:35:53 <andythenorth> can it just do something like 'touch foo.png' 21:36:04 <andythenorth> rather than opening PIL and writing actual pngs? 21:36:29 <Alberth> theoretically yes, except then it is up-to-date w.r.t. all existing files 21:37:33 <andythenorth> I'd need a specific arg to do that I think 21:37:45 <andythenorth> otherwise building the grf means running the generator :) 21:38:03 <Alberth> add a -M option :D 21:38:28 <andythenorth> I'll keep this as notes 21:38:43 <Ammler> Alberth: we don't have a case insensitive file name convention, not sure, we would want one 21:39:15 <Alberth> Ammler: I was refering to a case-sensitive filename convention 21:39:52 <Alberth> if you have that, you cannot make 'double' filenames any more 21:41:22 <Ammler> so you would force people to have lower case only? 21:41:35 <Alberth> for example, yes 21:41:59 <andythenorth> ho 21:42:07 <andythenorth> all my acronyms :( 21:42:24 <Alberth> otherwise you get foo.txt Bar.txt SPAM.TXT 21:42:29 <Ammler> as said, I would not like that, of course if that is the only possibility, it needs considering... 21:42:50 <andythenorth> most of my files are lower case 21:43:01 <andythenorth> it's a habit from making the internets :P 21:43:16 <Ammler> Alberth: i prefer README, others prefer readme.txt 21:43:28 <Alberth> all my filenames are lowercase, I hate needing the shift key to enter a filename :) 21:43:33 <andythenorth> +1 21:43:43 <andythenorth> apparently we have a lot of Makefile.foo though ;) 21:44:14 <andythenorth> I have some FISH and BANDITS and HEQS 21:44:18 <Alberth> Ammler: you can have only one readme in a project 21:44:19 <andythenorth> no FIRS though 21:44:33 <andythenorth> readme.txt of course 21:44:39 <andythenorth> upper caps fails readability 21:44:42 <Ammler> Alberth: that's the point such a convention might be usefl per project 21:44:43 <Alberth> GNU said the name should be Makefile 21:44:57 <Ammler> buton devzone there are 50? projects 21:45:03 <andythenorth> GNU can pay wear and tear on my shift key :P 21:45:37 <Ammler> and many individuals, which all like different file names :-) 21:45:38 <Alberth> Ammler: ah, you want one solution for all projects? ok 21:46:32 <Ammler> well, I want a solution, we can enable per default, 21:46:58 <Alberth> I was just pondering about the problem, and after realizing you are asking for something completely new (namely looking at existing files in the project), I got wondering whether other solutions were possible, 21:47:45 <andythenorth> do we cache file names for the dep check? 21:48:52 <Alberth> andythenorth: tbh, I am quite not sure you'd want to run pixa for generating just one .png file 21:49:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: you wouldn't :) 21:49:12 <andythenorth> the setup overhead wouldn't pay off 21:49:20 <andythenorth> I am planning to generate ~3000 21:49:28 <andythenorth> which is acceptable 21:49:40 <Alberth> so you need to be able to define sets of pngs to construct 21:50:13 <andythenorth> yup 21:50:37 <andythenorth> I could create classes for them in the BANDIT code 21:50:56 <andythenorth> hmm 21:51:07 <andythenorth> but the classes would be effectively doing what gestalts do 21:51:28 * andythenorth is scratching head still 21:54:31 <andythenorth> I have the mapping of cargos to gestalts 21:54:40 <andythenorth> but not the coloursets 21:54:52 <andythenorth> but BANDIT will need to know about coloursets anyway, to code them 21:54:55 <andythenorth> ho 21:55:12 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'll sleep on it, might wake up with the answer 21:55:22 <andythenorth> unless you patch in the meanwhile :D 21:55:26 <Alberth> you could make a file with the names (simple, but not very maintainable), list the files on the command-line, or define it more globally in a constraint-form 21:56:36 <andythenorth> I think there's an answer somewhere in that BANDIT has to know the file patterns 21:57:35 <andythenorth> then gestalts aren't tied to BANDIT so much, and could maybe be reused easier by other people 21:57:37 <Alberth> you'll need that, I think when you want more control over what an invocation of Pixa will do 21:59:47 <Alberth> the question is however whether you can split the variables and their values nicely enough from the generate code 22:00:47 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps add some extra function parameters to handle the special cases? 22:01:24 <Alberth> (that is, give generate a function as parameter, which it can call) 22:01:32 <Nat_aS> is there any reason why trains going diagonally appear larger? 22:01:51 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-176-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:01:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:02:06 <Alberth> which of course a framework in disguise :p 22:03:16 <andythenorth> framework is fine ;) 22:03:55 <andythenorth> I should write out a list of filename patterns 22:04:03 <Alberth> Nat_aS: there probably is. 22:04:42 <andythenorth> some are very simple: e.g. tanker trailers have only colour variations. There's no difference per cargo. 22:04:50 <andythenorth> others have lots of variations 22:05:04 <Nat_aS> is there any people from the unrealistic trainset on right now? 22:05:13 <andythenorth> hmm 22:05:16 <andythenorth> gestalts could chain 22:05:32 <andythenorth> stake-trailer is a flat-trailer with a parameter 22:05:50 <andythenorth> tipping-trailer-4px is a tipping-trailer with parameter for 4px high body 22:05:54 <Alberth> Nat_aS: all trainsets are unrealistic by that standard :p 22:06:05 <Nat_aS> V453000 Hanf Chris_Booth Mazur stephanbarth 22:06:29 <Nat_aS> no the unrealistic trainset is the name of a specific newgrif 22:06:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-2-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:30 <Alberth> Nat_aS: not very nice doing that 22:06:38 <Chris_Booth> LoL 22:06:59 <Mazur> !kill Nat_aS 22:07:01 <Chris_Booth> a few of us are here 22:07:14 <Nat_aS> pinging people? 22:07:19 * Chris_Booth saw Mazur doing it! 22:08:45 <Nat_aS> what's wrong with pinging to get people's attention? 22:08:55 <Nat_aS> anyways Chris, can I see that sheet of engine types? 22:09:17 <Chris_Booth> what sheet of engines? 22:09:19 <Alberth> because you don't know whether they know the answer 22:09:50 <Chris_Booth> everything for NUTS can be found in dev.openttdcoop.org 22:09:50 <Alberth> at most you should only ping that person that knows the answer 22:09:59 <Nat_aS> no, those are people who DO know the answer 22:10:14 <Nat_aS> they are listed on the Unrealistic trainset's webpage 22:10:15 <Alberth> then you still don't need them all 5 22:10:17 <Chris_Booth> Nat_aS: no we do not 22:10:20 <Nat_aS> the question is "Are you on" 22:10:35 <Nat_aS> only they can answer that question. 22:10:42 <Nat_aS> and the answer can only be yes. 22:10:46 <andythenorth> if you must do it, limit yourself to 2 22:10:47 <andythenorth> :P 22:10:50 <Nat_aS> a negitive result comes from not answering. 22:11:04 <andythenorth> or do @seen Nat_aS 22:11:07 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 22:11:27 <andythenorth> @seen Nat_aS 22:11:27 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Nat_aS was last seen in #openttd 37 seconds ago: <Nat_aS> a negitive result comes from not answering. 22:11:37 <andythenorth> but too much of that is annoying too 22:11:41 <Nat_aS> lol 22:11:48 <Nat_aS> that's probably more spammy 22:12:09 <Alberth> just as annoying for the pinged person 22:12:27 <Nat_aS> and makes more channel noise than just listing there names. 22:12:39 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: why didn't you just look in the list of people in the channel? 22:12:58 <Nat_aS> that wont tell me if they are AFK or not 22:13:02 <Nat_aS> not even @seen will do that 22:13:05 <Chris_Booth> Nat_aS: do you mean this: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AoP_7PwM8-MSdE5wUWJtZm1odzRyakF2cjZUWXp6SEE&output=html ? 22:13:11 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:13:12 <Nat_aS> it's a perfectly normal way to get somebody's attention on irc 22:13:20 <Nat_aS> and yes thank you! 22:13:24 <Nat_aS> that's what I wanted! 22:13:45 <Chris_Booth> you could have found that yourself where I told you on dev.openttdcoop.org 22:14:04 <Nat_aS> oh that 22:14:04 <V453000> there are people from unrealistic people 22:14:08 <Nat_aS> that is where i looked first 22:14:15 <Nat_aS> and could not find it. 22:14:21 <V453000> what do you need? 22:14:31 <Nat_aS> I just wanted to look at the list 22:14:33 <Chris_Booth> just to be annoying V 22:14:39 <Nat_aS> I have my own ideas for a balanced fantasy trainset. 22:15:19 <V453000> list ... is at the devzone, issue called engine table iirc 22:15:36 <Chris_Booth> V read up ^ I posted it 22:15:50 <Chris_Booth> Chris_Booth: do you mean this: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AoP_7PwM8-MSdE5wUWJtZm1odzRyakF2cjZUWXp6SEE&output=html ? 22:15:52 <Nat_aS> I might be intrested in helping you guys (I used to make trains for simutrans, one of which is still in the current build) or just use your ideas as a springboard 22:16:16 <Nat_aS> and yes I see it now, I just didn't look in the right place there 22:16:26 <Chris_Booth> Nat_aS: please join #openttdcoop.devzone if you want to help with this set 22:16:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: filenames might need some kind of delimiters :| 22:16:46 <andythenorth> I don't trust delimiters :) 22:16:58 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Night Night all] 22:18:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: just check them to death (split, check how many you have, check whether they match with known values) 22:18:52 <andythenorth> so if i in foo, otherwise raise... 22:19:13 <andythenorth> ok 22:19:18 <Alberth> I am a defensive programmer, so yes, I would do that :) 22:19:21 <Nat_aS> this might be a rude question but what is it with open source communities and not liking people who ask questions? 22:19:54 <Alberth> it's mostly how you ask, I think 22:20:23 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:45 <Nat_aS> "WAKE UP AND ANSWER MY QUESTION!" 22:21:00 <Nat_aS> it's because calling people by name makes the post show up in red, so it looks angry 22:21:13 <Nat_aS> whoever programed pings didn't consider the implications of that. 22:26:05 <andythenorth> I think it was mostly because your ping included 2 people not in the channel, which is silly :D 22:26:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: so I'm thinking some kind of dispatcher script, that decodes the filenames (similar to your example paste) 22:26:35 <Alberth> and also being very pushy, imho 22:26:54 <andythenorth> I could do the splits in make, maybe, but make syntax has zero appeal to me :P 22:27:03 * planetmaker expects to be highlighted with a meaningful question / statement in the same line or only when I'm currently active in the channel 22:27:26 <planetmaker> otherwise I'll just ignore the highlight even when I'm online 22:27:39 <planetmaker> (and might ignore further ones from that person) 22:28:16 * andythenorth is somewhat inspired by url dispatchers in web frameworks, which use patterns to find which class(es) need to handle the request 22:29:25 <andythenorth> stuff like this: http://www.ollycope.com/software/pesto/dispatch.html 22:30:26 <Nat_aS> Chris_Booth, you aren't in that channel 22:31:22 <andythenorth> hmm andythenorth has never seen pesto before, but it solves an equivalent problem for pixa: it will also generate a url for anything the dispatcher can handle 22:31:43 <Alberth> andythenorth: splitting in python seems to make most sense to me 22:31:45 * andythenorth is thinking aloud, probably too much 22:32:07 <Alberth> we're used to you doing that :) 22:32:42 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:32:45 <andythenorth> so ideally the decoder would be a set of classes / methods that can both decode (and pass to pixa) 22:33:07 <andythenorth> and also encode....called by BANDIT with params, when the -M arg is used (or similar) 22:33:18 <andythenorth> then all the patterns can be kept in one location 22:34:18 <Alberth> -M could be useful, at least for debugging; not sure whether you actually need it, as you want to generate groups of them anyway 22:34:51 <andythenorth> I only mention it because I'm short of ideas for generating initial pngs 22:35:18 <andythenorth> the encoder / decoder could do it 22:35:20 <Alberth> ie I was thinking in terms of gestalt=X length=7 length=5 22:35:29 <Alberth> as command-line aruments 22:36:25 <andythenorth> I think I need to understand the pipeline a little more 22:36:47 <andythenorth> so: to generate rendered pngs: make -> dispatcher -> gestalt -> pixa -> png 22:37:29 <andythenorth> to configure make? 22:38:56 <Alberth> hmm, tricky 22:39:37 <andythenorth> BANDIT -> mappings in global_constants -> dispatcher -> write empty pngs? 22:39:45 <Alberth> maybe just use a single file as reference for building a whole group? 22:40:33 <andythenorth> could be 22:40:38 <Alberth> which sort of implies you either generate all of them or none 22:40:47 <andythenorth> I'm fine with that 22:41:09 <andythenorth> if I've understood correctly though, it's similar to what a gestalt currently does... 22:41:10 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:41:37 <Alberth> it does not have to be a real 'png' file even, it can be just a dummy empty file 22:41:57 <Alberth> good point 22:42:01 * andythenorth wonders whats 'intrinsic' to a gestalt, and what's 'extrinsic' 22:42:17 <andythenorth> cargo might be extrinsic 22:42:40 <andythenorth> cargo also happens to be something BANDIT needs to specifically handle 22:43:07 <andythenorth> hmm 22:43:17 <andythenorth> sleep is something currently extrinsic to andythenorth 22:43:22 <andythenorth> that might have to change :D 22:43:30 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:43:47 <Alberth> do you want those groups being equal to the gestalts, or should that be more flexible 22:44:01 <andythenorth> I think they're equal so far 22:44:10 <andythenorth> it seems to work 22:44:32 <andythenorth> but it was only done this way for convenience 22:45:16 <andythenorth> hmm 22:45:25 <andythenorth> one way might be to generate against cargo sprites 22:45:44 * Alberth feels sleepy 22:45:44 <andythenorth> which I think I'll generate in a separate project, then put into BANDITs repo 22:46:00 <andythenorth> +1 to sleep 22:46:03 * andythenorth -> bed 22:46:12 <andythenorth> the answer usually presents itself when I wake up 22:46:36 <andythenorth> if not I'll write out all the filename combinations I can think of in pencil on paper 22:46:42 <andythenorth> that usually does the trick 22:46:58 <andythenorth> good night 22:49:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:50:35 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178205080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:54:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:59:18 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:30 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 23:04:39 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:13:23 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:14:54 *** morphium_ [~quassel@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 23:19:05 *** morphium_ [~quassel@78.84.121.50] has quit [] 23:19:57 *** morph` [~quassel@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 23:24:03 <morph`> OK, there's this peanut-butter cookie on my desk 23:24:22 <morph`> It tastes really good, but I am on a diet for last 10 months 23:24:24 <morph`> Should I? 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