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00:01:27 <Wolf01> 'ight 00:01:32 <Wolf01> +n 00:01:35 <Wolf01> :) 00:01:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host242-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:02:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-20-165.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:55 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 00:13:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@178.119.153.135] has quit [] 00:16:06 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0835bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:19:12 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:23:53 <morph`> Possible to compile and install JUST dedicated server of OpenTTD? 00:34:50 <frosch123> yes, if you are on *nix 00:35:01 <frosch123> configure has a --dedicated option or similar 00:36:14 <frosch123> actually "./configure --enable-dedicated" 00:42:49 <frosch123> night 00:42:52 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f515c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:44 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:23 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:35 <morph`> Well, compiling doesn't work for some reason on my Debian Squeeze - I get 00:52:54 <morph`> I can't "make" after Configure ends 00:53:28 *** morph` [~quassel@78.84.121.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-228.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:10:11 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 02:22:06 *** Maarten_ [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:12 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:48:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 04:01:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:747f:3f81:7f24:a684] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:06:05 <Nat_aS> anybody awake? 04:07:13 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/TPX.png can anybody crit this work in progress? 04:07:27 <Nat_aS> based on this crazy nazi train http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Orient%20Express%20%28kompletter%20Zug%29.jpg 04:07:46 <Nat_aS> is there a max height for trains before they start hitting bridges? 04:12:36 <Rhamphoryncus> nothing in the game mechanics. Just aesthetic 04:13:05 <Rhamphoryncus> If you really look close you'll realize that all trains are several times taller than tunnels/bridges :) 04:13:50 <Nat_aS> oh cool 04:13:57 <Nat_aS> and lol 04:16:04 <Rubidium> no try that in a rendered 3D world 04:21:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: i think your side view is backwards 04:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it looks in <- direction, but should be -> direction on that spot 04:22:21 <Nat_aS> for the lead engine or the tail car? 04:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> all of them 04:22:49 <Nat_aS> the one facing > is the lead engine, the one facing < is the tail car 04:22:55 <Nat_aS> so they should be the other way around? 04:23:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that. or your preview is backwards 04:24:04 <Nat_aS> the preview is just copy paste 04:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> in depot, the train is shown in <- direction 04:24:17 <Nat_aS> oh 04:24:24 <Nat_aS> derp 04:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so i just assumed your full train is like that 04:24:44 *** rickytaylor26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:49 <Nat_aS> I just made it facing the direction the picture it is based on is. 04:26:47 *** ricky26 [~quassel@80.83.125.94] has joined #openttd 05:01:59 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:47 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 05:32:46 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c1A0FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 05:34:36 *** snorre [~snorre@c1A0FBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:34 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B745D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:54:56 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B7433C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:00:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:08:58 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:14:17 <andythenorth> morning 07:14:43 <Nat_aS> it's finished! 07:14:56 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/TPX.png 07:14:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-168-227.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:15:24 <Nat_aS> can I get a crit? 07:15:53 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/Orient%20Express%20%28kompletter%20Zug%29.jpg this is what it's based on, I don't know anything about it except that it was designed by the nazis and probably never build 07:16:57 <Nat_aS> built 07:17:35 <Nat_aS> making rounded edges in isometry is hard. 07:19:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-176-208.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:25:46 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-158-244.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:25:49 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 07:29:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-168-227.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:33:53 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:37:46 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-7-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 07:38:28 <Rhamphoryncus> If only the Nazis had put their effort towards engineering and not world domination ;) 07:41:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-158-244.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:47:24 <andythenorth> why does the trees tool always build random trees, rather than the selected type? 07:47:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: the first tree on a tile should be of the selected type 07:48:03 <planetmaker> the subsequent ones then follow a certain tile layout pattern 07:48:10 <andythenorth> k 07:48:47 <andythenorth> that is the case 07:49:18 <planetmaker> there's like two dozen different tree tiles. That's it. Times growth stages 07:49:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:37 <Nat_aS> well in OTTD you can live out the alternate history where Germany was treated fairly after WWI and nobody got buthurt, and all the crazy scientists got nice jobs building crazy shit to rebuild postwar europe. 07:49:55 <Nat_aS> also hitler got accepted into art school. 07:50:25 <Nat_aS> and won a charlie chaplin lookalike contest. 07:50:55 <andythenorth> it's interesting 07:51:01 * andythenorth is feeling flamey today 07:51:38 <Nat_aS> flamey? 07:51:48 * planetmaker noticed 07:54:06 <Nat_aS> well night 08:05:23 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:20:04 * Rubidium wonders whether he'd be be welcomed in andy's club now ;) 08:22:01 <andythenorth> I was just surprised I got there first :P 08:22:37 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.4.207] has joined #openttd 08:24:52 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.4.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:04 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.102.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:25:26 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.4.207] has joined #openttd 08:26:11 <andythenorth> ...not to mention lots of new newgrf features, continued development of nml, and lots of newgrf developers trying to complete thing to release with next stable 08:29:06 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.4.207] has quit [] 08:31:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 08:35:19 *** Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:38:17 <Rubidium> hmm 08:38:36 <Rubidium> if you got custom bridge heads and building stuff on top of a tunnel entrance 08:38:47 *** Booth is now known as Chris_Booth 08:38:55 <Rubidium> wouldn't then the best next step be: a bridge head that's also a tunnel entrance? 08:39:44 <Rubidium> that'd be really useful 08:40:26 <Rubidium> and then you're actually (almost) a sort of subway implemented 08:40:59 <Rubidium> just build a row of 0 long tunnels with signals in the entrance 08:41:15 <Rubidium> and build 0 length bridges over that with signals on the bridgehead 08:41:30 <Rubidium> or am I going insane now? 08:42:49 *** zxbiohazardzx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:42:54 <zxbiohazardzx> hello again :) 08:44:08 <peter1138> Rubidium, yes 08:46:35 *** pokka [3a6f41a1@78.129.202.38] has joined #openttd 08:50:08 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:52:10 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 08:53:12 <andythenorth> Rubidium: you'd need to be able to depth -1 08:53:25 <andythenorth> please don't accidentally do subways 08:53:31 <andythenorth> I like mocking it too much :( 08:54:15 *** pjpe [ade6a119@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:57:07 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:57:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:57:19 <Alberth> moin 08:57:48 <zxbiohazardzx> morning :p 08:58:48 <Rubidium> moggel Alberth 09:00:02 <zxbiohazardzx> moggle, you dutchies? 09:00:11 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19B92.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:04:23 <Rubidium> what makes you think that? The company I work for is 50% Dutch and over the last years I've learned quite a few Dutch words ;) 09:04:40 <zxbiohazardzx> :) dutchies rule the world :) 09:05:08 <zxbiohazardzx> and i thought so because moggel is from the KPN commercial, goeiemoggel :P 09:05:18 <zxbiohazardzx> usually its goedenmorgen or morgen :P 09:08:50 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 09:09:38 *** pokka [3a6f41a1@78.129.202.38] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:11:35 <zxbiohazardzx> Rubidium regarding your reply in the multithreading 09:11:56 <zxbiohazardzx> arent the ships heavy on CPU if you have alot of them (mainly due to pathfinding for ships? 09:14:06 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1200/ 09:17:05 <Rubidium> zxbiohazardzx: only under certain circumstances. With proper buoy usages it's actually not that big 09:17:32 <Rubidium> even then, most games I see forbid ships, don't use ships or use ships for very short distances 09:17:50 <zxbiohazardzx> fair enough, it just comes down to the old "too much work for too little benefit" 09:18:13 <zxbiohazardzx> can i ask someone to try to apply a diff and see if it compiles fine? 09:18:24 <Rubidium> well, you'd still need to add loads of synchronisation 09:18:50 <Rubidium> e.g. arrival at stations needs to happen in the same order everytime 09:18:56 <zxbiohazardzx> true 09:19:00 <Alberth> andythenorth: number 1200 ! 09:19:06 <Rubidium> and you'd need synchronisation for updating the vehicle location caches 09:19:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: it looks like a nice definition to me :p 09:19:39 <Rubidium> all have a negative impact on all other vehicles 09:20:13 <andythenorth> Alberth: I might try coding it later 09:20:26 <andythenorth> so my main.py might become a dispatcher script 09:20:38 <zxbiohazardzx> im not that much of a coder Rubidium 09:20:39 <andythenorth> and the gestalts should probably learn how to run standalone 09:20:45 <zxbiohazardzx> i just updated the house patch 09:20:52 <zxbiohazardzx> till then i hardly did coding on ottd 09:21:05 <zxbiohazardzx> i did do a minor software engineering and got around java alot 09:21:10 <zxbiohazardzx> and i do understand the cpp part 09:21:24 <Alberth> andythenorth: stand-alone? you want to run a gestalt as a child process of main.py? 09:21:25 <zxbiohazardzx> just writing it from scratch is not my thing :P 09:21:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm not sure 09:21:54 <Alberth> I'd use make for that :p 09:21:58 <andythenorth> I want them to be able to be invoked as separate, parallel processes by make 09:22:29 <andythenorth> if we decode filenames, we could, in theory, run one gestalt process per filename 09:22:45 <Alberth> you could make main decode what to do, and then import the right gestalt, and let it do the work 09:23:10 <andythenorth> actually, I'm intrigued by how effective it might be 09:23:15 <zxbiohazardzx> and i liked the idea of being able to place houses manually in the scenario editor 09:23:21 <andythenorth> just the imports (no rendering) appears to take 2s at the moment 09:23:42 <Alberth> 2nd time as well? 09:23:54 <andythenorth> scrub that 09:24:00 <andythenorth> logical error by me :P 09:24:10 <zxbiohazardzx> i think planetmaker even suggested to make it work similar to the object placer, where you can select a house and build it. that for me would be great, but i cant code that well, so i decided that id first update the patch that existed to the 24018 revision (yesterdays head) 09:24:12 <Alberth> ie the first time you have a disk-cache to fill, and possibly have some python compilation going on 09:24:14 <andythenorth> imports are 0.04s 09:25:20 <andythenorth> can imports be dynamic? 09:25:38 <andythenorth> e.g. for item in [list]: import item 09:25:42 <andythenorth> is that even wise? 09:26:02 <Alberth> what if you use "all" as value for stating you want to generate all png of that value? ie tank-trailer-all-1_8-all.png 09:26:31 <andythenorth> could work 09:26:41 <andythenorth> I'll see how the code smells when I write it 09:26:57 <Alberth> I wold not do dynamic imports 09:27:00 <andythenorth> BANDIT has to know what 'all' consists of anyway 09:27:08 <andythenorth> to make use of the graphics in spritesets 09:27:47 <Alberth> and it saves you just a few lines of code 09:33:02 <andythenorth> dynamic imports smell :) 09:33:16 <andythenorth> the gestalts change rarely 09:36:21 *** JVassie [~James@2.27.104.165] has joined #openttd 09:36:35 *** pokka [3a6f41a1@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:37:53 <Terkhen> good morning 09:47:23 * andythenorth pokes pokka 09:48:56 <Alberth> moin 09:51:42 *** pokka [3a6f41a1@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:51:43 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-27-54.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:52:01 * andythenorth hmms 09:52:26 <andythenorth> (1) how to pass things to gestalts: as params in python, or make them use shell args for communication? 09:52:28 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:53:07 <andythenorth> (2) gestalts need input file (floorplan), should it be passed, or is that an internal detail? It (mostly) relates to length, but might also relate to subtype issue 09:59:17 <Alberth> ad 1: the former should be possible, so you can build the latter if needed :) 10:00:00 <andythenorth> params in python is simpler at this stage 10:00:11 <Alberth> ad 2: what if I use 'all' as subtype? I'd say the gestalt itself should figure it out 10:00:36 <andythenorth> +1 10:00:50 <andythenorth> I forgot about cargo variants in my spec 10:00:57 <andythenorth> e.g. STEL can be coils, bars, pipes etc 10:01:12 <andythenorth> not sure yet if that's a gestalt subtype, or a cargo subtype 10:01:16 <andythenorth> think it's cargo 10:02:25 <Alberth> +1 10:04:40 <andythenorth> k 10:04:51 * andythenorth will make code in between chores and babies 10:14:18 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:19 *** Enorian [~Enoria@albaldah.dreamhost.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:15:21 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:15:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: basic dispatcher? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1201/ 10:16:16 <andythenorth> needs to pass filename obv. 10:16:41 <andythenorth> target_files is for test only, that would be passed by make or such 10:20:55 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178205080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:22:14 <Alberth> x.split('_')[0] --> x.split('_', 1), but looking good, imho 10:22:15 <andythenorth> cleaned up a little: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1202/ 10:22:25 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:25:45 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1203/ bottom one is a bit further cleanup 10:27:52 <andythenorth> the split('_',1) seems to be failing ;) 10:29:55 <andythenorth> hmm 10:29:57 <Alberth> oh, it's still a list, you need [0] after it 10:30:08 <andythenorth> my split() only allows two params, docs say three 10:30:27 <Alberth> 'filename' is the first one 10:30:34 <andythenorth> k 10:30:59 <andythenorth> I'm going to rename this as dispatcher.py 10:31:05 <andythenorth> and have main.py act like a fake make 10:31:43 <Alberth> x = C(); x.f(y) becomes x = C(); C.f(x, y) <-- where 'x' is 'self' 10:32:45 <andythenorth> makes sense 10:38:33 <Ammler> Alberth: maybe we could integrate this: https://bitbucket.org/face/timestamp/src/fe1b90905b3c/casestop.py 10:39:02 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 10:40:37 <Alberth> that would be useful indeed 10:40:58 <Ammler> andythenorth: there is a make replacement with python afaik 10:41:26 <Ammler> we once checked that as we were investigating build environments for newgrfs 10:41:58 <Ammler> can't remember the name, something with s 10:42:54 <Ammler> Alberth: but it needs integration to your hook, as we need it for push :-) 10:43:23 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:57 <andythenorth> Ammler: I previously found at least one python based make replacement, but the project appeared to be not very supported iirc 10:44:05 <andythenorth> there are probably more... 10:44:22 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 10:46:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host242-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 10:47:13 <Wolf01> hello 10:48:32 <Ammler> scons was it 10:48:33 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:27 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 10:49:49 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 10:49:50 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 10:50:22 <Alberth> Ammler: untested, but something like this? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1204/ 10:53:29 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:56:31 <Ammler> Alberth: well, I would like to have it integrated in or existing hook and maybe a switch here: https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/file/1e2e71379ba5/mercurial/hooks/repo_checks.ini [filenames]casestop=true 10:56:57 <Alberth> yeah :) 10:57:24 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 10:57:29 <Alberth> I found the repo with the script, and I have a test setup, but no docs how it worked :p 10:58:23 <Ammler> https://hg.openttdcoop.org/misc/file/1e2e71379ba5/mercurial/hooks/check_commit.py <-- docs are in this header 10:58:50 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:20 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 10:59:26 <Ammler> pretxnchangegroup.check = python:/home/hg/misc/mercurial/hooks/check_commit.py:check_changegroup 11:01:47 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:24 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:03:28 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:07:18 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:07:38 <xiong> I'm not sure what I'm seeing. Has anyone noticed reluctance of industry to accept cargo generated at the same station? I have a train set to 'Unload and take cargo (near end)' then 'Unload and leave empty (far end). The cargo is unloaded but not accepted. 11:08:24 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:37 <Ammler> xiong: so it is working? 11:09:55 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:10:17 <xiong> Ammler, Um, not from my viewpoint. 11:11:00 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120216100510]] 11:11:32 <andythenorth> Ammler: I did find scons yes 11:12:04 <andythenorth> the one that looks dead is http://www.a-a-p.org/ 11:12:48 <xiong> I'm not sure the particular use case is relevant; I seem to have similar trouble in another case. There, I definitely want to consume all production without leaving the station. So I had a truck repeatedly loading and unloading. The cargo was not consumed. I eventually created an extra truck stop and sent the truck back and forth, which worked. 11:12:50 <andythenorth> also Ammler http://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigurationAndBuildTools 11:13:01 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:13:45 <xiong> Um, for even more irrelevant detail, the latter case was a FIRS Coal Mine and Lime Kiln at the same station. 11:13:49 <Alberth> oh, aap, from bram , author of vim :) 11:14:12 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:14:50 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:53 <Alberth> afaik you do have to actually transport the cargo, even if it is just one tile 11:15:23 <xiong> The current case is a bit more complex. I've got an excess of FS at several stations so I'm running a big train around to all of them; loading, then conditionally transferring or unloading to consume the excess. 11:15:45 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:16:57 <xiong> That so, Alberth? I've been successful in so many cases with the small loop trucks ("piglets") rationing out ES/FS and input cargoes. Of course, these come originally from somewhere else. 11:18:35 <xiong> I also use loop trucks to keep output cargo "fresh" by constant transfer-and-load. It seems to me that, back when I started this practice, if I did *not* use a transfer order, my cargo might be consumed at the producing station. Do I just remember that poorly or has the game changed? 11:18:54 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:08 <Alberth> oh, I could very well be wrong 11:19:41 <Alberth> I don't setup complicated cargo transfer schemes normally 11:19:43 <xiong> Mm, dunno, Alberth. Your statement is rational, realistic, and consistent with current observations. 11:19:54 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:20:20 <xiong> You might still be wrong but I'll adopt your view as a working hypothesis. 11:20:47 <Alberth> the only corner case I can think of, is if you first transfer cargo to some station, thn load it, and unload it again there. I have no idea at all what happens then 11:21:34 <andythenorth> oh buildit is by chris mcdonough http://agendaless.com/Members/chrism/software/buildit/README.txt 11:21:48 <xiong> It's not a great burden to add these extra truck stops and alter orders to go back and forth. It's actually a simpler order list -- since to order a vehicle to the same station only, requires a total of 4 orders to avoid the "duplicate order" warning. 11:22:07 <andythenorth> Ammler: scons looks to be the most recently updated 11:23:07 <Alberth> andythenorth: we have too many of these build systems :p 11:23:24 <andythenorth> 'Just Use Make' 11:23:25 <andythenorth> ? 11:23:34 <andythenorth> how many do we have? 11:23:46 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:49 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 11:24:08 <xiong> That's precisely my dominant use case, Alberth. I transfer cargo in bulk -- say, ES -- then pick it up and drop it with a truck, slowly. I actually use a 1 Horse Carriage, which takes nearly a month to station stop and depot. . 11:24:47 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:25:30 <xiong> I'm going to go along with the "must transport some distance" statement, which forbids consumption at exactly the producing station. It's rational. Thanks Alberth++ 11:26:08 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:54 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.97.170] has joined #openttd 11:27:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcd98.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:27:42 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-054.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:29:26 <Alberth> I never got to the point of FS and ES distribution :) 11:36:52 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: *Throws a nuclear warhead in the room and flees*] 11:39:13 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-107-134-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:40:23 <__mj> hi, I'm debugging something and I've found a train with subtype 1001100(b) but the documentation reads that there are only 6 bits denoting a vehicle subtype, is this information still accurate ? 11:40:51 <andythenorth> hmm 11:41:00 * andythenorth might get distracted by python multiprocessing module 11:41:12 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 11:41:17 <__mj> I didn't mean 6 bits in the docu, I meant the enum has only 6 values :) sry 11:42:06 <__mj> still looks strange to have a subtype of 72(d), I need to know if this is a problem in my code that created this train 11:42:32 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d821b67.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:45:57 <Rubidium> are you sure the vehicle is a train? 11:46:06 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:46:36 <Rubidium> though I don't know any reason why the two high bits would be set 11:48:52 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:54 <__mj> Its a slightly modified version of Train, I use it as intermediate object 11:51:19 <__mj> But I didn't change anything about its type 11:53:03 <Rubidium> are you doing multiple inheritance? 11:55:37 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:55:39 <__mj> no 11:56:42 <__mj> this issue doesn't give any problems, but I should keep a note that it might create problems later on 12:17:47 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 12:18:41 *** Guest5471 is now known as AD 12:20:00 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-78-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:20:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:24:34 <andythenorth> hmm 12:24:52 <andythenorth> python multiprocessing seems straightforward :o 12:25:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-7-179.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:25:27 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:26:12 <__mj> I've been doing a bit of python lately, the only bad thing I can rely say about it, is that it has those ugly indentation semantics ;) 12:28:57 <Alberth> like you don't indent your code otherwise :) 12:30:02 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:31:51 *** _maddy [~pekka@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7cf900-210.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:32:25 <_maddy> how do I check why my AI is not loaded when I start the game? I made a simple barebones AI according to wiki examples with info.nut and main.nut 12:33:31 <__mj> Alberth: I use chaotic random indentation normally :) 12:33:37 <__mj> looks funny ! 12:34:18 <Yexo> _maddy: open the console, type "debug_level ai=5"<enter> and after that "rescan_ais"<enter> 12:34:40 <valhallasw> __mj: for you, not for anyone else maintaining your code 12:34:57 <valhallasw> the python syntax was not created to be easy to write, but easy to read 12:35:39 <_maddy> Yexo: rescan_ais command not found 12:36:12 <Yexo> try "rescan_ai" or "rescan_scripts" 12:36:48 <_maddy> rescan_ai works, no error messages, I guess for some reason it is not finding it 12:36:59 <Yexo> where did you put info.nut/main.nut? 12:37:02 <Alberth> the 4 letter name is crucial 12:37:02 *** Artanicus [~artanicus@adsl-77-109-250-69.kymp.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:21 <_maddy> openttd_dir/ai/QAI 12:38:22 <Artanicus> howdy. Just installed the lucid 1.1.5 64bit deb and the package seems to be missing the actual binary. Am I doing something wrong or is it just missing? :D 12:38:27 <Yexo> ai debug level has been renamed to "script" 12:38:36 <Yexo> so "debug_level script=5" first, than try "rescan_ai" again 12:39:13 <_maddy> Yexo: still no error message, and no ai loaded 12:39:16 <andythenorth> hmm 12:39:40 <_maddy> the version is r24001 12:39:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: with python multiprocessing, the improvement is ~ linear so far :) 12:39:55 <andythenorth> I know make can handle that part, but I don't have a makefile yet :P 12:40:20 <__mj> valhallasw: did you believe me that I indent my code randomly ? how would anyone get anything done that way ? 12:40:39 <valhallasw> __mj: I've seen enough people *actually* do that 12:40:44 <valhallasw> unfortunately :| 12:40:48 <__mj> uh... 12:41:04 <Yexo> _maddy: can you post your info.nut/main.nut at paste.openttdcoop.org? 12:41:13 <__mj> there is probably a crazy person for everything in the world ;) 12:41:16 <Alberth> andythenorth: nice! :) 12:41:18 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:30 <Artanicus> Here's the package contents listing, at least the main binary is missing; http://pastebin.com/Z4hKUene 12:41:32 <valhallasw> __mj: especially in MATLAB/IDL code... code that was not written by programmers but by random scientists 12:41:55 <Yexo> Artanicus: /usr/games/openttd <- that's the main binary I think 12:42:28 <Artanicus> Yexo, gah, just realized myself. damn I feel stupid 12:42:52 <Hirundo> Hmm... for my test case (ogfxairports), disabling tile compression actually adversely impacts performance 12:42:57 <Artanicus> somehow my eyes thought it was a directory. nvm and thanks for setting me straight :-) 12:43:01 <_maddy> Yexo: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1205/ 12:43:07 *** Artanicus [~artanicus@adsl-77-109-250-69.kymp.net] has quit [Quit: Tanta stultitia mortalium est.] 12:43:08 <__mj> valhallasw: and they random-indented their code on purpose ? 12:43:33 <Ammler> openttd installs the bianary in a very silly location per default 12:43:47 <Yexo> Hirundo: lz77 is the slow part, not tile compression 12:43:55 <Hirundo> Indeed 12:43:58 <valhallasw> __mj: it's like the javascript 'written' by web site designers: copy paste stuff from everywhere until it sort of works 12:44:00 <Yexo> and disabling tile compression means more data for lz77 12:44:19 <Hirundo> Indeed :-) 12:45:48 <morph`> Any awesome NoGo scripts for Multiplayer yet? 12:49:24 <_maddy> Yexo: any ideas? 12:49:49 <Yexo> _maddy: GetShortName is required to return a string of length 4 12:50:03 <Yexo> the debug info should've told you that 12:51:25 <_maddy> yes now the AI loaded, the debug info didn't display any error message though 12:51:35 <andythenorth> hmm 12:51:56 <andythenorth> for a mixed bag of gestalts, MP pixa is ~5s, non MP is ~11s 12:52:06 <andythenorth> the MP version blocks ~100% of my CPU, as intended 12:52:16 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 12:52:20 <andythenorth> the non MP version uses ~25% 12:52:25 <__mj> valhallasw: that's the reason why sometimes those people are called 'designers' rather than 'programmers' :) 12:52:33 <andythenorth> must be some overhead somewhere 12:53:09 <__mj> what is a gestalt ? some new feature ? 12:53:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: do you think it's essential to use make for generation? 12:53:50 <zxbiohazardzx> bck 12:56:56 <_maddy> Yexo: thanks for the help 12:57:02 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 12:57:23 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:57:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: make is used for constructing build sequences, and skipping stuff that does not need a rebuild. If you don't need that, you don't need make imho 12:57:51 <andythenorth> maybe I try to rub along without it 12:57:58 <andythenorth> makefile syntax is a step too far right now 12:58:03 <andythenorth> ducktape coding :P 12:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... after the "bud spencer" tunnel, and the "i'm lacking a screw" road, now an internet vote (in slovakia this time) resulted in the "chuck norris" bridge 12:59:45 <zxbiohazardzx> thats nonsense, chuck norris doesnt need a bridge 13:00:08 <Alberth> __mj: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=58543 13:01:34 <zxbiohazardzx> being the total naab that i am 13:02:07 <zxbiohazardzx> how do i generate a sln for vc? as ofc the MS VC 2008 guide does not have info on that shit 13:03:07 <__mj> thanks, alberth 13:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> zxbiohazardzx: you execute projects/generate 13:03:26 <zxbiohazardzx> im wintendo on that part 13:03:33 <zxbiohazardzx> so i usually just load a pregenerated SLN 13:03:54 <Eddi|zuHause> zxbiohazardzx: you need only generate the sln if you added files 13:04:02 <zxbiohazardzx> so i recon id have to create a project, import everything and then generate it? 13:04:07 <zxbiohazardzx> i modified files yes 13:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and my grammar very german today is 13:04:48 *** __mj [~me@dslb-188-107-134-217.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: __mj] 13:04:52 <zxbiohazardzx> hence i want to check if the source compiles without errors, and what results i have ingame 13:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> zxbiohazardzx: "modifying" files is fine, "adding new files" needs generating the sln 13:06:07 <zxbiohazardzx> lets put it this way Eddi 13:06:13 <zxbiohazardzx> i editted the files in notepad++ 13:06:27 <zxbiohazardzx> and now i have to ofc compile & run in order to check how it works out 13:07:32 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 13:07:45 <zxbiohazardzx> i think i got it, but now its errorspree so i did something wrong for sure 13:08:38 <zxbiohazardzx> it ofc lacks the dependancies, as linking them changed in VS10 compared to older one 13:12:28 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd 13:12:41 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:13:31 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 13:25:01 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:8452:2054:7606:af7f] has joined #openttd 13:25:03 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:25:03 <zxbiohazardzx> blegh i keep hitting no sutch file or directory 13:25:11 <zxbiohazardzx> somewhere includes arent going correct 13:30:00 <zxbiohazardzx> D:\Sourcecodes\OpenTTD_SVN\trunk\projects\Debug\ottd_test.exe : fatal error LNK1120: 1 unresolved externals 13:30:25 <zxbiohazardzx> stupid externals, i added them to the MSVC folder in the libs specified for project 13:31:38 *** _maddy [~pekka@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7cf900-210.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:31:47 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:36:52 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 13:42:37 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 13:45:40 <TinoDidriksen> "unresolved external" cannot be solved with #include 13:45:57 <TinoDidriksen> There's some library or file that you're not linking correctly. 13:46:48 <zxbiohazardzx> hmmz 13:47:16 <zxbiohazardzx> squirrel.h was also missing 13:47:21 <zxbiohazardzx> and i didnt touch that 13:47:23 <zxbiohazardzx> ill check though 13:47:28 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-054.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 13:48:17 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:48:57 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:50:10 <zxbiohazardzx> im not that certain on coding anyway, i just updated the manual house placing patch, and then i failed on setting up the envrionmetnt i recon 14:05:15 *** zxbiohazardzx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 14:12:07 <morph`> Is there currently any way of adding company value goals to OpenTTD dedicated server? 14:13:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:18:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-188-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 14:20:59 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:31 <Yexo> yes, via NoGo scripts 14:37:18 <_maddy> what type is the return value from AICargoList or AIIndustryList functions? 14:39:07 <Yexo> AICargoList is not a function, it's a class 14:39:10 <Yexo> so the type is "AICargoList" 14:39:22 <Yexo> AICargoList is a subclass of AIList 14:39:48 <Yexo> http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/ <- it's all in the documentation 14:40:20 <_maddy> I have the documentation open, but that class has no functions, so I am assuming I must iterate over it using a loop 14:40:37 <Yexo> as you can see at the top it's a subclass of AIList, which has functions 14:40:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: most of the code in generate() for a gestalt relates to creating all the variations 14:40:56 <Yexo> foreach (item, value in list) { ... } works just fine however 14:41:13 <andythenorth> if, instead, that renders just one spritesheet based on parameters, it might be made common 14:41:52 <andythenorth> then, optionally, passing 'all' as a filename arg, might cause the gestalt to simply construct a list of expanded filenames, then call generate() on them 14:43:43 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:47:29 * andythenorth biab 15:03:23 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 15:05:27 <_maddy> how do I get the length of an array in squirrel? 15:07:43 <Yexo> array.len()? 15:09:00 <Yexo> see http://squirrel-lang.org/doc/squirrel2.html#d0e2506 15:09:48 <_maddy> that's useful 15:11:45 <_maddy> is there a shortcut to get the companyId of the AI's current company? 15:13:44 <_maddy> ah found it I think 15:15:59 <Yexo> aicompany.resolvecompanyid(aicompany.company_current) or something like that 15:23:49 <_maddy> yeah 15:27:42 <morph`> Weird, UKRS 3.04 doesn't seem to work on my server 15:28:10 <morph`> Works fine when I create single-player game, doesn't appear in list of loaded grfs when I make a multiplayer dedicated server 15:29:13 <morph`> Nevermind 15:37:05 <andythenorth> it would be nice, for 1.3, to be able to plant farm fields (as industry-owned objects) 15:37:09 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-194-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:37:19 <andythenorth> obviously now is not the time for adding newgrf features 15:42:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-78-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:43:15 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad091690d-CM602ad091690a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 15:43:15 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:04 <planetmaker> andythenorth: now those things could already be added (again). But... they need writing 15:44:10 *** tokai [~tokai@port-92-195-59-83.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:44:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 15:44:18 <andythenorth> we're all busy :) 15:44:20 <planetmaker> ^^ 15:48:23 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-194-189.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:46 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:55:33 *** _maddy [~plaiho@182.21.240.77.static.louhi.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:32 <andythenorth> Alberth: I need a new separator for filename parts, underscores aren't cutting it :P 16:02:01 <andythenorth> could use dash for parts, underscore within parts :P 16:02:43 <andythenorth> % 16:02:44 <andythenorth> & 16:02:45 <andythenorth> ? 16:02:56 <Rubidium> : 16:03:51 <andythenorth> doesn't that have some exciting OS specific issues? :) 16:04:13 <Rubidium> as if the others don't on Windows 16:04:32 <planetmaker> you could also add a * 16:04:51 <andythenorth> $ 16:05:02 <planetmaker> or a " 16:05:05 <planetmaker> or ' 16:05:20 <planetmaker> or maybe spaces and \ 16:05:44 <Rubidium> ? < > \ : * | â 16:05:45 <andythenorth> or / 16:05:46 <planetmaker> breaking FS 101 :-P 16:05:49 <Rubidium> bad for NTFS 16:06:09 <Rubidium> ^ also bad for FAT 16:06:13 <andythenorth> - and _ then :P 16:06:25 <andythenorth> hmm 16:06:28 <Rubidium> and by that I mean the caret is also bad for FAT 16:06:42 <andythenorth> I don't like it when I run code that I know is broken, but it doesn't fail :P 16:06:45 <Alberth> - and _ are most sane imho 16:06:51 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but where/what do you need to split on? 16:07:08 <andythenorth> example: 'tipping_trailer_4px-fifth_wheel-cc1-7_8-GRAI.png' 16:07:28 <andythenorth> gestalt, colourset, length, cargo 16:07:41 <planetmaker> use camel case naming ;-) 16:07:52 <planetmaker> then you need less separators 16:08:01 <Pikka> and fewer 16:08:10 <andythenorth> hmm 16:08:19 <planetmaker> I always have a glass and also use partial separators 16:08:25 <andythenorth> I think python multiprocessing doesn't raise errors in child scripts by default 16:08:38 <Alberth> use " " :) 16:08:56 <Rubidium> andythenorth: but that's 4 things that must always be there, so a single seperator should suffice 16:09:11 <Rubidium> and if you don't have a field just leave it 'empty' 16:09:20 <andythenorth> I need to then further split tipping_trailer_4px etc 16:09:23 <andythenorth> later 16:09:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: I had horrible thought that using 'if 'foo' in filename' fails when an unwanted substring match is found 16:10:15 <andythenorth> e.g foo produces food gestalt instead of foo 16:11:38 <Alberth> that's why I used string.startswith() 16:12:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:13:15 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:17:30 <andythenorth> ho 16:17:32 <andythenorth> that's interesting 16:18:59 <andythenorth> with MP, this is ~50% faster now 16:25:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: done anything with python multiprocessing ever? 16:25:20 <andythenorth> it would be nice to handle process completion better 16:25:38 <andythenorth> and maybe also optionally limit number of processes 16:25:44 <andythenorth> http://docs.python.org/library/multiprocessing.html 16:25:59 <andythenorth> current code is checked into bandit repo 16:28:25 <Alberth> never 16:29:55 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178205080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:33:19 <andythenorth> it's fun :) 16:35:19 <Alberth> it beats messing with hg repo code, I am VERY sure 16:38:26 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 16:39:26 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178238030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:40:13 <andythenorth> @calc 100 * 1.3 16:40:13 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 130 16:40:17 <andythenorth> 130 / 60 16:40:23 <andythenorth> @calc 130 / 60 16:40:23 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.16666666667 16:42:41 *** _maddy [~plaiho@77.240.21.182] has joined #openttd 16:42:41 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:01 <Pikka> you really needed the bot to tell you what 100 * 1.3 is, andy? :P 16:51:12 <valhallasw> andythenorth: I've played around with multiprocessing a bit 16:51:37 <valhallasw> most important thing to remember is NOT TO FORGET THE if __name__=="__main__" where you set up the process pool 16:51:43 <valhallasw> or you end up forkbombing yourself 16:51:47 <valhallasw> been there, done that 16:51:48 <andythenorth> Pikka: I like to check the bot is working 16:51:58 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:52:03 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's not 16:52:06 <andythenorth> valhallasw: I have ignored that bit of the docs; even the bit where it says "You MUST do this" 16:52:09 <Rubidium> @calc 076 * 1.3 16:52:09 <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 80.6 16:52:27 <Rubidium> not the expected 0120.6 16:52:50 <valhallasw> andythenorth: I think the docs just say 'this won't work in an interactive interpreter', not 'run this and you have to restart your computer unless you have ulimit configured right' 16:54:15 <valhallasw> I'm always surprised by how quick and effective forkbombs are 16:54:23 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24020 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#4898]: Unify the spacing in 'AI/Game Script' and never just say 'Game' when 'Game Script' is meant. 16:55:39 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:58:42 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:59:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:30 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@02dc0652.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:30 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 17:00:33 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:03:45 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-186-054.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 17:04:25 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@86.158.149.85] has joined #openttd 17:11:15 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:50 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:16:31 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:40 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:28:04 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:49 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has quit [Killed (NickServ (Too many failed password attempts.))] 17:29:03 *** welshdragon [~mark-oftc@welshdragon.zernebok.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:31 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:32:27 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@86.158.149.85] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120305181207]] 17:34:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CB33.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:39:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.182.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:02:57 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:55 <andythenorth> Alberth: handling the 'all' case in filenames would lose the MP speedup, or at least require the gestalt to also spawn processes 18:08:35 <andythenorth> I'm not against it, just not sure if it's worth it right now 18:11:09 <Alberth> oh, you don't expand the 'all' cases in the dispatcher? 18:23:44 <andythenorth> I could 18:24:09 <andythenorth> I'd need to figure out a canonical source of data for what 'all' is 18:24:37 <andythenorth> currently that's the gestalt, which is logical but not desirable 18:26:41 <Alberth> add a way to query it from the gestalt? 18:27:55 <Alberth> vars = gestalt.get_variables(); values = gestalt.get_values(vars[2]) with the 3rd var being 'all' 18:28:23 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 18:30:12 *** urpiotr [~urpiotr@aegw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 18:31:25 <andythenorth> +1 18:31:38 <andythenorth> so that's like saying 'module provides [stuff]' 18:32:11 <_maddy> how do I determine the size (tiles) of an industry in AI code? 18:34:15 <planetmaker> you query each tile for its tile class, I guess 18:34:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:34:22 <planetmaker> but why do you need to know that? 18:35:26 <_maddy> I need to determine where I can build a station, next to an industry.. I thought it logical AIIndustry class would have something like GetSize, along with GetLocation 18:37:56 <Alberth> andythenorth: you can also use a class instead, but that may be more complicated to use and/or explain 18:38:10 <Alberth> as gestalts are fairly big 18:41:37 <urpiotr> hi, I'm trying to compile with VS2005 but I get this: 18:41:37 <urpiotr> 5>d:\src\openttd\src\network\core\address.cpp(134) : error C2065: 'AI_ADDRCONFIG' : undeclared identifier 18:41:37 <urpiotr> 5>d:\src\openttd\src\network\core\address.cpp(358) : error C2065: 'IPV6_V6ONLY' : undeclared identifier 18:41:37 <urpiotr> Can anyone give me a hint, what could be wrong? 18:42:23 <TinoDidriksen> VS2005? Ancient 18:42:36 <TinoDidriksen> VC++ 2010 Express is free... 18:43:08 <urpiotr> should these be defined in some system, library or SDK headers? 18:43:31 <Alberth> looks like ipv6 support 18:43:47 <Alberth> which may have been non-existing in vs2005 18:44:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24021 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt finnish.txt french.txt german.txt): 18:44:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:44:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 13 changes by Rubidium 18:44:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 9 changes by jpx_ 18:44:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 9 changes by OliTTD, glx 18:44:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker 18:44:52 <glx> urpiotr: update platform sdk 18:47:26 <Pikka> hey look 18:47:57 <Pikka> banks on opposite sides of a 256* map producing around 50 bags of valuables a month 18:48:05 <Pikka> = legitimate use for the Beech 1900 :D 18:48:13 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:22 <Nat_aS> beech? 18:49:39 <Pikka> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Beech_1900 18:49:55 <Pikka> oh look, I never put a sprite image on that page either :) 18:50:12 <Nat_aS> oh I though you said there was a plane that came out in 1900 18:50:13 <Nat_aS> :V 18:54:25 <guru3> In six days I'll have a 2048 day reporting period for #openttd. 18:54:36 <guru3> Just as a completely random fun fact. 18:56:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: gestalts are getting smaller... (lots of commented out code at end to be removed) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1210/ 18:56:22 <andythenorth> most of the code was to handle composing all the variations ;) 18:56:31 <andythenorth> now they just dumbly render what they're given 18:56:32 *** _maddy [~plaiho@77.240.21.182] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:03:20 <Alberth> your use of indenting to layout data like code still confuses me completely :) 19:03:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24022 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/control_codes.h table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: CARGO_LIST control code for strings 19:08:52 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:13:59 <urpiotr> glx: thanks for the hint :) Now it compiles successfully. 19:16:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24023 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#5090]: pass cases down into the list of cargos 19:18:29 <andythenorth> Alberth: you mentioned that the other day, but we didn't discuss further 19:18:38 <andythenorth> my indenting violates PEP-8 I think :o 19:18:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24024 /trunk/src/lang/ (55 files in 2 dirs): -Update: translation w.r.t. the changes in r24023 19:19:12 <andythenorth> can you show me a better way? I don't mind changing it 19:20:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: this bidwell thing should run on batteries :P 19:20:52 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:53 <andythenorth> or even stored flywheel power :D 19:20:59 <andythenorth> find a railtype for *that* 19:21:00 <Pikka> andy; it was going to 19:21:19 <andythenorth> what stopped you? 19:21:23 <Pikka> but there's no "nice" way of doing it that 19:21:40 <andythenorth> wot, you're saying that's no local vars on a vehicle :O 19:21:57 <Pikka> that is, there's no nice way of limiting the time it can spend on normal track 19:22:26 * andythenorth thinks the gameplay result might just be annoying anyway 19:22:31 <Pikka> exactly 19:22:50 <Pikka> so, you know, people just have to electrify the routes they want to use it on :P 19:23:57 <Pikka> also, even though sticking 4 of them together is still considerably cheaper to run than a class 66, you won't be replacing all your diesel freights because they're 15mph slower 19:25:13 <andythenorth> you should do one of those green goat things 19:25:19 <andythenorth> variable hp with gensets 19:25:29 <andythenorth> make it adjust to the number of trailing vehicles :P 19:25:37 <Pikka> ew 19:25:43 <Pikka> keep it simple :P 19:27:19 <Rubidium> yeah ;) 19:27:35 <Rubidium> 1 engine refittable to everything. Done! 19:29:50 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railpower_Technologies#Green_Goat_Hybrid_switchers 19:30:07 <Pikka> I know, andy :P 19:30:32 <andythenorth> ok :) 19:33:32 <Pikka> all good all good... just got to do that darn a-train... 19:45:58 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-111-65-161.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 19:50:36 <andythenorth> ho 1.5s to generate 42 pngs 19:50:48 <andythenorth> so...who has the fastest box? :P 19:54:01 <Rubidium> not me 19:59:39 <andythenorth> ho 19:59:45 <andythenorth> seems I upset a Level Crossing 19:59:51 <andythenorth> or got ignored 19:59:53 <andythenorth> hey ho 20:02:06 <andythenorth> hmm 20:02:22 <andythenorth> is the state of...you know...reality calculated single-threaded, or multi-threaded? 20:05:53 <frosch123> the what? 20:07:44 <andythenorth> reality 20:08:12 <andythenorth> we might need to agree on meta-physics first :P 20:08:54 <andythenorth> stuff like the double slit experiment shows that there is a game-state being calculated for reality 20:08:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-85.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:09:01 <andythenorth> so is it MP-aware? :P 20:09:17 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:09:57 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 20:11:14 <frosch123> i think most interesting about rl is whether there is respawning 20:11:50 *** urpiotr [~urpiotr@aegw74.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 20:22:38 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on which religion you ask 20:35:00 <andythenorth> also, to what extent could evaluating varaction 2 chains be parallel? 20:35:14 <planetmaker> none 20:35:32 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:35:39 <andythenorth> for obvious reason I have overlooked, which is...? 20:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the whole underlying design is unfit for parallelization... 20:36:17 <planetmaker> you can query other tiles, towns... 20:36:31 <planetmaker> which can be modified again by other varaction2 20:37:25 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 20:37:33 <andythenorth> I wondered about the tile case 20:37:35 <andythenorth> what about vehicles? 20:37:48 <andythenorth> there's always some global thing in newgrf :P 20:38:21 <andythenorth> fwiw, I'm not complaining about lack of MP use 20:38:24 <andythenorth> just interested 20:40:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: alone the fact that you can query the "related object" will screw your plans... 20:42:06 <andythenorth> is it theoretically impossible to parallelise vehicle varaction 2 chains? 20:42:10 <andythenorth> or just silly 20:42:11 <andythenorth> ? 20:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it can be done without sacrificing some (corner-case?) functionality 20:43:58 <andythenorth> for vehicles, it's probably not critical functionality 20:44:17 <andythenorth> a consist seems to be a pretty self-contained entity to me 20:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's exactly _inside_ the consists that you will cause trouble 20:45:33 <planetmaker> except for rails or roads 20:46:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm assuming you can't parellelise the vehicles in the consist 20:46:22 <andythenorth> you have to choose somewhere to start evaluating, presumably the start :P 20:46:30 * andythenorth is guessing, but could read the code 20:46:43 * andythenorth is actually shirking re-writing cargo sprite generation 20:52:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth, vehicle varaction2 also needs to be sequential or you have to toss all random action2 20:52:19 <andythenorth> ok 20:52:38 * andythenorth stops shirking cargo sprite generation rewriting thereof 20:52:40 <planetmaker> or at least the re-randomisation of the vehicle bits needs to be sequential 20:53:27 * andythenorth suggests an optimisation equivalent to MP: reduce vehicle limit, decrease map size :) 20:53:32 <planetmaker> at least vehicle behaviour should not depend on the non-sequential random actions :-). But in principle it can currently 20:53:43 <planetmaker> Like I could return vehicle_speed = 38 * random(10) 20:53:51 <planetmaker> vehicle_max_speed 20:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos... anyone tested my randomized livery change delay? 20:55:10 <andythenorth> I tested your crossings patch 20:55:10 <andythenorth> :P 20:55:15 <andythenorth> what happened to that? 20:55:19 <andythenorth> also your fence patch 20:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing happened... still waiting on somebody to code the drawing part 20:55:49 <Nat_aS> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24299180/OTTD/TPX2cc.png Now with 2cc! 20:55:58 <Nat_aS> can anybody give me advice on the windows? 20:56:07 <Nat_aS> and the diagonals? 20:56:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the drawing part of crossings? 20:56:20 * andythenorth coded crossings patches once 20:56:22 <andythenorth> got annoyed 20:56:22 <Nat_aS> Diagonals are what the player sees most of the time, but they kinda look ugly 20:56:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: drawing diagonal tracks on road crossings 20:56:55 <Nat_aS> I can't really get rounded edges in diagonals looking good, there is no easy rule like the 1:2 for straight lines 20:57:15 <andythenorth> first I'd have to draw you that stupid composited road-rail piece so that you could force it to appear under tram tracks 20:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: my solution to diagonals looking ugly is making them longer :p 20:57:57 <Nat_aS> isn't that the max lenght for diagonals though? 20:57:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: what do you mean? 20:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: yeah... i cheat :p 20:58:35 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: your diagonals don't look so bad, you use an odd window colour though 20:58:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tram tracks insist on putting a road piece under rail crossings 20:59:01 <andythenorth> I spent a weekend trying to stop that, but it's pretty tricky 20:59:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes. draw road, draw rail, draw tram 20:59:19 <Nat_aS> what would be a better color 20:59:24 <Alberth> black 20:59:25 <Nat_aS> I was not really sure what to use. 20:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but that has nothing to do with diagonal crossings :) 20:59:27 <Nat_aS> black? 20:59:36 <andythenorth> Nat_aS the dark purple used everywhere else ;) 20:59:45 <Alberth> good night all 20:59:47 <Nat_aS> which is it on the pallet? 20:59:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: good night 21:00:01 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: start the game, enable newgrf debug tools, and look at some of the default vehicles 21:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: how i cheat the vehicle length: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/1990/Hawthorn___Co.__6._Okt_1922.png 21:00:25 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:00:28 <Nat_aS> how do i do that 21:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: it's actually 3 vehicles that just look like one 21:01:08 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Debugging 21:01:16 <Nat_aS> >Trains bending with the track 21:01:23 <Nat_aS> WHAT SORCERY IS THIS? 21:01:45 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: the windows are usually 128-135 if using the DOS palette: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2458/palette_key.png 21:02:13 <andythenorth> *not* 170-177 which some people have used :o 21:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: a normal vehicle is 8lu (length-units). to create the illusion of a 10lu vehicle i make three vehicles of length 3-4-3, and make the two 3's invisible, only draw the 4 21:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> the bending is some additional magic to avoid the vehicle sticking out of the rails too far 21:04:11 <Nat_aS> it's nice to see this game has consistant style 21:04:23 <Nat_aS> ;) unlike some games 21:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: most of the magic is in these files: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/templates/gfx_front_vehicle_10.pnml (there's one for every vehicle length betewen 3lu and 16lu (=1 full tile)) 21:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: and the accompanying vehicle template: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/template_10_8bpp_normal.png 21:07:24 <Nat_aS> so whole tile engines are possible? 21:07:27 <Nat_aS> :0 21:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: for the different length just exchange the 10 for the desired length, e.g. 16: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/entry/src/gfx/template_16_8bpp_normal.png 21:10:29 <Nat_aS> so these are hand drawn? or traced 3d renders? 21:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> this is hand drawn 21:10:48 <Nat_aS> anyways, you guys are blowing my mind with newgrif fu 21:11:01 <Nat_aS> I take back what I said about simutrans having better coding 21:11:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i know, i'm kind of an extreme case :p 21:11:10 <Nat_aS> Newgrifs blow them out of the water 21:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and i didn't even talk about autogeneration yet :p 21:11:29 <Nat_aS> you are so limited by the engine in simutrans when it comes to making fancy new trains. 21:11:47 <Nat_aS> like they don't even support randomized cargo sprites for doublestack cars 21:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> most of the magic needed for this to work is only in trunk for 2 months 21:11:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or 3 21:12:03 <Nat_aS> or half loaded cars 21:12:14 <Nat_aS> both of which I wish I had when I made doublestack cars for them 21:12:22 <Nat_aS> I think they might still be in there latest build 21:12:28 <Nat_aS> so ugly 21:12:49 <Nat_aS> there is no half loaded sprite, and the containers are CC only 21:13:06 <Nat_aS> no multicolor shiping containers :c 21:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm massively bulding upon other people's foundations here 21:14:02 <andythenorth> gah...I hadn't considered the CETS case when setting up cargo sprite generation :| 21:14:19 <Nat_aS> what? 21:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> many of the ideas were there previously, but i pieced them together 21:15:00 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm114.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 21:15:00 <Nat_aS> man, I'm not sure I could sprite cars with that many rotations 21:15:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'm planning to release a full set of cargo load sprites, GPL, on nml templates, length 2/8 to 8/8 21:15:14 <andythenorth> but only for 8 angles :P 21:15:24 *** Scuddles [~notme@cm114.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 21:15:29 <Nat_aS> yeah, a lot of those angles are hard to draw 21:15:35 <Nat_aS> without 3d tracing 21:15:38 <Nat_aS> which I dispise 21:15:43 <Nat_aS> because of simutrans 21:15:52 <Nat_aS> it's the reason the game is so ugly 21:15:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause however the sprite generator doesn't know too much about angles, it just uses floorplans 21:15:58 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 21:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as long as you can use the template as a floor plan... 21:16:21 <andythenorth> yup 21:16:34 <andythenorth> but something like a tarpaulin load - that would need drawing for extra angles 21:16:40 <andythenorth> same for machinery, vehicles, etc 21:16:48 <andythenorth> steel coils - I've got covered :P 21:16:58 <andythenorth> make all loads round, you're fine :P 21:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we can think about that when we get there... 21:17:28 *** Firartix [~artixds@181.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 21:17:36 <Nat_aS> will there be a geniric shiping container sprite that can be copy pasted for consistancy? 21:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm more interested in getting some generic shapes that not all vehicles are green blobs, but something that vaguely resembles an engine/wagon 21:17:46 <Nat_aS> and be the same on boats, stations, trucks, and trains? 21:18:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the generator is close to usable....I'll be looking for users :) 21:18:31 <Nat_aS> maybe the game could even track which sprite of container is droped off where so it would look like they are actualy being moved around 21:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: that's a little too much... unless you tie the container colour to a cargo 21:19:31 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: there'll be a full set of shipping container sprites, 20' and 40' 21:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Nat_aS: or you implement containers as a vehicle, and loading/unloading containers as a special case of shunting 21:19:40 <andythenorth> :) 21:20:34 <Nat_aS> well the idea would be to have stations remember which color container they receive, and "store" them in there own sprite, then when they give cargo to a veichile, they will set the loaded veichile to have that sprite 21:20:42 <Nat_aS> it would be an illusion 21:21:00 <Nat_aS> just remember the color it gave you, keep that color, then give that color to the next train 21:21:14 <Nat_aS> probably a lot of work for such a subtle effect 21:21:38 <Nat_aS> man I love shiping containers, will this newgrif have new stations? 21:21:43 <Nat_aS> like a container port station? 21:21:58 <andythenorth> Nat_aS: you've found ISR, right? 21:22:01 <Nat_aS> I like the industrial stations renewal set, but it could be better. 21:22:05 <Nat_aS> yes 21:22:13 <Nat_aS> it's the best station newgrif 21:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a little dated meanwhile, could use an update 21:22:21 <Nat_aS> but it lacks stations for some industries, 21:22:25 <Nat_aS> yeah it's old 21:22:37 <andythenorth> there's also DWE stations 21:22:37 <Nat_aS> and also there is no equivlent for PAX stations 21:22:38 <Nat_aS> :c 21:22:42 <Nat_aS> DWE? 21:22:43 <Eddi|zuHause> not as bad as MBs passenger stations, though 21:22:55 <andythenorth> here you go Nat_aS http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=67245 21:22:58 <Nat_aS> also the "Classification Yard" set in it seems halfassed 21:23:35 <Nat_aS> actualy 21:23:38 <Nat_aS> what is really needed 21:23:45 <Nat_aS> is a seaports newgrif 21:23:54 <Nat_aS> that allows placing seaports like stations 21:23:58 <Nat_aS> lenght and width 21:24:15 <Nat_aS> built over water, as long as one side is touching land 21:24:27 <Nat_aS> and customizible the way industrial stations are 21:24:56 <Nat_aS> and that link is really cool 21:26:32 <Eddi|zuHause> just had to laugh at the lego-smilies... don't think i've seen those before :p 21:38:31 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-37.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:45:25 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:52:10 <xiong> Yes, I play with DWE as well. I have quite a few station sets. 21:53:34 <xiong> Just because it's a train station tile doesn't mean you can't build other stations with it -- seaports, bus and truck stops. Just join the tile onto the basic dock, stop, or even airport. 21:54:15 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, what would you add / change with ISR? 21:54:33 <planetmaker> I'd change the forced track type for some 21:54:37 <frosch123> change? the grfid :p 21:54:41 <planetmaker> haha :-) 21:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> don't remember, haven't played in a while so i don't know what annoyed me the last time 21:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the most important was that the stockpiles should depend on some average throughput, not the currently waiting cargo (needs some statistics exposed as variables) 21:56:55 <planetmaker> ah, yes 21:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> also: not all parts of the "full (drag&drop) stations" are available as individual pieces 21:57:20 <planetmaker> that I consider not that tragic. Actually I'd rather add some more drag&drop stations 21:57:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not usually using the full stations. mostly i'm making empty stations and put some sprinkles in 21:58:10 <frosch123> night 21:58:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fcd98.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and the shunting yard needs a matching eyecandy railtype with the same ground tile 21:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and more shunting tiles 21:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> switches in all kinds of directions 22:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and eye-candy wagons on the shunting rails 22:00:58 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 22:01:34 <planetmaker> yeah, the latter makes sense. Though that IMHO is difficult. Not sure I'd do that, if I were the author of a station set 22:01:48 <planetmaker> it's only fit my personal choice of NewGRFs which is... not very versatile necessarily 22:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, that's a problem 22:02:40 <planetmaker> thus I think the better solution is invisible engines to place wagons on real tracks 22:03:16 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> could use some evil AI callbacks like "give me a wagon that carries cargo <Y>, and put that as effect vehicle on location <X>" 22:03:20 <planetmaker> (or maybe not invisible, but looking like a wagon) 22:03:32 <Nat_aS> what is DWE? 22:03:43 <planetmaker> lol, Eddi|zuHause :-) 22:03:54 <planetmaker> Nat_aS, a NewGRF 22:04:04 <planetmaker> or rather a few NewGRFs, iirc 22:04:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well. that's the most extreme way i can immediately think of that will be independent of the vehicle and industry set used 22:05:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the "wagons" could then effectively work like the stockpiles, i.e. get more or less depending on throughput 22:06:47 <planetmaker> :-) It's an interesting concept. Would maybe need a new CB for stations... but might be worth it when someone [TM] cares to implement both 22:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole shunting yard concept should maybe be split off ISR 22:12:04 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:12:40 <planetmaker> possibly, yes 22:25:33 <Nat_aS> wait, OTTD works on android? 22:25:35 <Nat_aS> :o 22:25:49 <Nat_aS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vILfIVkQ7I&feature=related 22:27:49 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:27:53 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 22:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there may be unofficial ports 22:28:55 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 22:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the UI usually needs tweaking 22:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> like a way to simulate shift and ctrl 22:30:43 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178238030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:31:33 <FLHerne> Is there any way to simulate right-clicking? 22:32:03 <FLHerne> Such as [modifier]-click or something 22:32:11 <Nat_aS> apparently that port can't handle click dranging 22:32:17 <Nat_aS> which makes tracks hard to do 22:32:40 <FLHerne> That would be annoying 22:33:05 <FLHerne> Even more so than not being able to move the map 22:34:01 <Nat_aS> almost as anoying as SImutrans autorail feature 22:34:13 <Nat_aS> less because it wont do things you don't want it to do 22:34:48 <FLHerne> What does that do? Never played Simutrans... 22:35:21 <Nat_aS> in simutrans you can lay tracks by clicking in two points, and letting the pathfinding engine pick the best route between them 22:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd be more worried about assembling trains 22:35:32 <Nat_aS> this sounds like a good idea unless you want to lay parallel tracks 22:35:55 <Nat_aS> because it tries to use existing tracks whenever posible 22:36:01 <Nat_aS> and will connect instead of following 22:37:18 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 22:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i remember how annoying it was in TTT to get a second track next to an existing one 22:38:33 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 22:40:19 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 22:43:45 <planetmaker> <FLHerne> Is there any way to simulate right-clicking? <-- there is. At least on OSX 22:44:57 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:47:48 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:53:27 *** pjpe [ae5f3ed9@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:54:15 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:01:48 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:06:04 <andythenorth> @calc 3.6-2.4 23:06:04 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1.2 23:06:09 <andythenorth> @calc 1.2/3.6 23:06:09 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.333333333333 23:06:19 <andythenorth> that's quite a bit faster :O 23:07:49 <Terkhen> good night 23:09:03 <andythenorth> good night Terkhen 23:19:34 * andythenorth -> bed 23:19:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:20:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:06 <Nat_aS> Fffffffffffff I hate shitty Bioses 23:23:11 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:23:18 <Nat_aS> can't seem to boot off of anything 23:24:00 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19B92.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:06 <Nat_aS> how am I going to install ubuntu onto this damn thing if I can't get it to boot off of USB, and installing off of a CD crashes halfway through 23:28:21 <TinoDidriksen> Nat_aS, just use VirtualBox? 23:28:45 <Nat_aS> how does that work? 23:30:49 <TinoDidriksen> http://virtualbox.org/ - it's a virtual machine, but if you have a CPU with virtualization extensions then it's almost as fast as native. 23:32:11 <Nat_aS> well a friend of mine picked up a used computer at goodwill, and I want to reformat it to run ubuntu because it's previous owners left it full of spyware 23:32:22 <Nat_aS> but I can' 23:32:39 <Nat_aS> can't get it to boot of of USB, and booting off of CD is really slow and has lots of disk read errors 23:33:04 <TinoDidriksen> Oh...well then, you can put the HDD in another machine and install, then move it back. 23:33:22 <Nat_aS> ... 23:33:31 <Nat_aS> if only I had another machine, all my computers are laptops 23:33:32 <Nat_aS> :V 23:33:37 <Nat_aS> but that is a good idea. 23:33:41 <Nat_aS> shit 23:34:09 <planetmaker> you can also attach a HDD to a laptop, you know... 23:34:48 <Nat_aS> actualy my vaio does have an Esata port 23:35:25 <Nat_aS> so I plug that in, then plug my USB key into another port, then boot off of that, and install Ubuntu into the pluged in drive? 23:35:51 <Nat_aS> careful not to accidently select my laptop's own HD and reformat the Windows install there 23:35:59 <TinoDidriksen> I would remove the laptop drive while doing that, just to be sure it doesn't install Grub there. 23:36:05 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:36:11 <glx> the other way is network install using a boot cd 23:36:21 <Nat_aS> network install? 23:36:53 <TinoDidriksen> Does Ubuntu have a netinst edition any longer? 23:37:50 <TinoDidriksen> Yes it does... 23:37:54 <TinoDidriksen> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD 23:38:19 <TinoDidriksen> Fewer read errors that way. 23:38:22 <Nat_aS> oh good idea 23:38:29 <Nat_aS> I'll need to get another disk though 23:38:32 <Nat_aS> this is my last one 23:38:43 <Nat_aS> Is there a floppy install option :P 23:38:49 <Nat_aS> this computer has a floppy drive 23:39:03 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:39:22 <glx> RW discs exist for a reason :) 23:39:44 <Nat_aS> aren't RW's less reliable though? 23:39:49 <Nat_aS> Can I burn over this? 23:40:12 <TinoDidriksen> RW is fine these days. 23:40:50 <Nat_aS> i hate optical media SO MUCH 23:40:57 <Nat_aS> I want it to die faster 23:41:18 <planetmaker> you have a window? 23:41:26 <planetmaker> throw it out. It then dies quite quickly 23:42:32 <Nat_aS> lol 23:42:38 <Nat_aS> i mean as a medium 23:42:45 <Nat_aS> I want it to be all digital distribution 23:42:59 <Nat_aS> I want to be able to install oSes from the internet as well. 23:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to use DVD+RW, but the disks got quite unreliable after several dozen overwrites 23:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and suddenly the other guy's burned disks were not readable in my computer anymore, but when i burned over them they worked fine 23:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause> so only one-way 23:43:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which made it kinda awkward 23:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> then we invested in a USB stick :p 23:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause> have never seen a BIOS that couldn't boot off USB though 23:44:43 <TinoDidriksen> You can get 500gb USB3 harddrives that only need USB power for â¬100 these days...wonderful times. 23:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> at least if it's newer than 10 years 23:45:25 <Eddi|zuHause> 500GB used to be 50⬠a year ago 23:45:49 <TinoDidriksen> Only for the versions that need external power. 23:46:06 <TinoDidriksen> These are thin things that fit in a pocket. 23:46:30 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and if he "got a used computer" it might not have USB3 23:46:59 <glx> ah 2.5" drives 23:47:19 <TinoDidriksen> Nono, I was more talking instead of USB sticks and DVD-RW in general. 23:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i paid something like 40⬠back then for my sloooooow 8GB stick 23:48:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really small though 23:48:38 <Eddi|zuHause> have it on my key ring 23:49:14 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 23:49:45 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:51:08 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@214.Red-83-43-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]