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00:00:24 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:04:08 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73D5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:04:22 <Wolf01> nighty night 00:04:25 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:06:19 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-104-89.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:38 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-021-001.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:37:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:23 <Nat_aS> so, if scenerios are savegames, why can't you build things in them 00:37:27 <Nat_aS> like tracks and trains? 00:37:29 <Nat_aS> and airports? 00:42:10 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-68-99-244.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:33 <Rhamphoryncus> Because there's no players yet? And then you'd just have a savegame ;) 00:49:51 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B73D5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:52:36 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 00:54:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B73D5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:55:46 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-106-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 00:57:34 *** Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 00:59:18 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-227-121.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:18 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.24.135.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:29 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-106-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:05:37 <Nat_aS> i mean why can't you make a secenario with players already existing 01:11:50 <Rhamphoryncus> just use a savegame 01:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> just play the game as player X and rename it into .scn again 01:15:45 <Rhamphoryncus> with some cheats about the only things you can't do is place oceans and place rivers/lakes 01:24:27 <V453000> and the new editor signs :p 01:25:10 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:48:39 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:48:49 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 01:54:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A6AB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:00:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A393.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:46 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 02:04:06 <Nat_aS> no way to adjust the snowline? 02:04:12 <Nat_aS> in scenerio editor? 02:04:30 <Nat_aS> also, no way to controll how towns will expand other than trimming them each time you press expand? 02:06:56 <Rhamphoryncus> there's an option to turn off road building entirely 02:07:07 <Rhamphoryncus> Dunno if that is affected by the expand button 02:07:47 <Nat_aS> i don't think so 02:07:50 <Nat_aS> let me check 02:08:04 <Nat_aS> altohugh I think the most anoying thing is the tendency to build skyscrapers everywhere 02:08:09 <Nat_aS> in a town you just made 02:11:22 <Rhamphoryncus> Depends on the year and the size of the town 02:11:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Maybe year is only with newgrfs 02:13:16 <Rhamphoryncus> I found that the scenario editor didn't create as many tall buildings as normal gameplay would 02:25:05 <V453000> just let the game run for a while, it will fill them rather quickly 02:30:48 *** collinp [~collin@h226.138.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep.] 02:44:40 *** collinp [~collin@h226.138.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #openttd 02:44:49 *** collinp [~collin@h226.138.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [] 02:48:51 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:49:15 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 03:36:46 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:46:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 03:51:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d167:b131:fed6:4e8a] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:12:45 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 04:16:29 <Nat_aS> man, I like FIRS, but it would be better if the chains were shorter 04:17:13 <Nat_aS> Raw > Refined > Product > Consumer, should be Raw > Product > Consumer 04:18:02 <Nat_aS> but I like the idea of a fish industry, as well as Supplies (although it could be simplified to agricultural and industrial) and recycling chains 04:18:46 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:18:54 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 04:40:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Nat_aS: Yeah, I've enjoyed FIRS, but now I'm exploring ECS 04:41:27 <Nat_aS> i think it would be better with generic factories like in vanilla. 04:42:02 <Rhamphoryncus> Dunno. FarmSup/EngSup I simultaneously like and dislike 04:42:26 <Rhamphoryncus> (Keep in mind I've been using a patched version which spreads out the farmsup/engsup requirements.. still a lot of effort.) 04:42:41 <Pinkbeast> YACD+FIRS? 04:43:40 <Rhamphoryncus> No, it gives them a stockpile of up to 6 months, which increasing consumption as they expand 04:43:46 <Rhamphoryncus> I do need to try YACD though 04:43:57 <Nat_aS> I'll admit that supplies are hard to implement in OTTD's model 04:45:09 <Rhamphoryncus> My last game of FIRS I had a set of trams waiting for full load at each location. A train would come, transfer off, load what ever wasn't taken immediately by the trams, and move to the next until they were empty 04:45:35 <Rhamphoryncus> Turned out to be more complicated than it was worth 04:46:47 <Nat_aS> yes 04:46:57 <Nat_aS> it's really overcomplicated for such an issue 04:47:19 <Nat_aS> also, even waiting for goods to arrive so you can make more goods is a problem in OTTD 04:47:34 <Nat_aS> why I don't think industry chains should ever be longer than two links. 04:47:59 <Nat_aS> not unless you can change how the system works fundamentaly. 04:48:10 <Rhamphoryncus> ttd has always been an asymmetric, volume oriented game. You full load and let that regulate everything. Other than pax of course, but they suck for this very reason 04:48:29 <Nat_aS> well Cargodist fixes pax 04:48:36 <Nat_aS> I can't imagine playing OTTD without that. 04:48:55 <Nat_aS> perhaps what needs to happen is to make secondary goods less dense than raw materials? 04:49:03 <Rhamphoryncus> In of themselves the long chains don't bother me, but with the tendency to collect many primaries into a single secondary.. you just have secondary to secondary. One massive link. 04:49:20 <Rhamphoryncus> Cargodist isn't enough. You need good timetables too, which we don't have 04:49:46 <Nat_aS> yeah, I usualy wont even bother with an industry unless I can connect two primaries to a secondary. 04:49:56 <Nat_aS> and then the secondary is usualy just trucks 04:50:04 <Nat_aS> or spare space on trains. 04:50:10 <Nat_aS> "If I can fit it" 04:50:13 <Nat_aS> otherwise ignore it 04:50:45 <Rhamphoryncus> Cargodist is fun but not challenging. Trivial to still use a single secondary drop for the entire map 04:50:52 <Rhamphoryncus> Again I need to try YACD 04:51:23 <Nat_aS> the only way I could see this changing is to make secondaries less dense, mechanically by having a disproportionate amount of secondary cargo for each priamary cargo produced 04:51:45 <Nat_aS> or at least by having the parcels take up more room and cost more than there priamaries. 04:52:20 <Rhamphoryncus> nope, that just changes the volume 04:52:23 <Nat_aS> 1 ton of raw makes 1 crate of goods, with each crate taking up twice as much space on a car and costing twice as much 04:52:33 <Nat_aS> but changing the volume would make it less asymetric. 04:52:37 <Pinkbeast> I think it's fine; it promotes an approach other than always using the biggest locomotives on long trains. 04:52:49 <Nat_aS> which does? 04:52:57 <Rhamphoryncus> Asymmetry isn't about volume. It's about direction of flow 04:52:59 <Pinkbeast> The secondary output volumes being small. 04:53:19 <Rhamphoryncus> coal->powerstation vs city<-->city 04:53:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Pinkbeast: what promotes smaller trains? 04:54:03 <Pinkbeast> What I think Nat is complaining about; the way cargo volumes tend to drop along FIRS trains. 04:54:09 <Nat_aS> Mill,Mill,Mine -> Factory -> town 04:54:15 <Pinkbeast> It means you have to think a bit - big locomotives, small ones, RVs... 04:54:33 <Nat_aS> should be Mill,Mill,Mine -> Factory -> Town, Town, Town, Town, Town 04:54:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Naw. Mill,Mill,Mine -> Factory,Factory -> Town,Town,Town,Town,Town 04:55:21 <Nat_aS> well either way, I'd rather see more materials go out than come in 04:55:34 <Nat_aS> if only because that allows huge doublestack container trains 04:55:45 <Nat_aS> and maybe an incentive to actualy try to distribute goods to every town 04:55:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah 04:55:54 <Nat_aS> or use more than one factory 04:56:56 <Nat_aS> i mean in real life, finished goods are in packages, unless you are talking about Ikea furniture, you are mostly shipping air. 04:56:59 <Rhamphoryncus> Mind you, iron ore would be very bulky, which turns into steel which is so dense as to take up a traincar just for a small amount anyway, which turns into goods which are usually very low density 04:57:17 <Nat_aS> finished goods should be less dense and more valuable than raw materials. 04:57:36 <Nat_aS> yeah, but finished goods are less dense than ore. 04:57:41 <Rhamphoryncus> Doesn't FIRS mark them as "crates" rather than tonnes? 04:57:42 <Nat_aS> packaging and air. 04:57:49 <Nat_aS> I think it does 04:58:05 <Nat_aS> anyways, a crate should weigh more and cost more than the materials that went into it 04:58:30 <Nat_aS> because it is filled with air and packing materials as opposed to a pile of dirt. 04:58:40 <Rhamphoryncus> To be really pedantic.. if you add *all* the inputs it should take exactly the same amount 04:59:03 <Nat_aS> no, because some things are added at the factory 04:59:10 <Nat_aS> like air and packing materials 04:59:18 <Rhamphoryncus> (To be really REALLY pedantic.. that includes electrical and thermal energy) 04:59:23 <Nat_aS> also consider there are unseen resources that your company does not produce. 04:59:28 <Nat_aS> move rather. 04:59:39 <Pinkbeast> Packing materials arrive explicitly in FIRS and I definitely think you're overanalysing 04:59:57 <Nat_aS> oh speaking of power, why are there no power stations in FIRS? 05:00:06 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but.. I see no point in being super realistic here. Make it fun and walk away happy. 05:00:32 <Pinkbeast> Because coal->power is too easy without the demand for power entering into it? 05:00:58 <Pinkbeast> I mean, think about any vanilla game; 1) ship coal across map 2) forget about money 05:01:01 <Nat_aS> would be cool if power incresed the production of all the industries within a radius. 05:01:12 <Pinkbeast> You want Simutrans. :-) 05:01:25 <Nat_aS> Ship coal across map, go bankrupt waiting for coal to arrive. :P 05:01:37 <Nat_aS> lol 05:01:46 <Nat_aS> i want simutrans with graphics that aren't ugly 05:01:56 <Nat_aS> also possible to earn money 05:02:04 <Nat_aS> I have never been able to make a profit in simutrans 05:02:11 <Pinkbeast> You can easily earn money in Simutrans - it's just also easy not to. 05:02:17 <Nat_aS> how? 05:02:38 <Nat_aS> Factories STOP PRODUCING IF THERE CARGO IS NOT TAKEN TO MARKET 05:02:42 <Pinkbeast> Ironically, with Coal->Power is a good way to start. 05:02:51 <Nat_aS> you have to finish chains for them to make any money 05:03:01 <Nat_aS> you can't just run a half chain like in TTD 05:03:09 <Pinkbeast> Thanks, I have played Simutrans. 05:03:25 <Nat_aS> that alone makes it too hard for me :p 05:04:50 <Pinkbeast> First do coal->power using engines with a good power-cost ratio (Garratts in pak64); unlike OTTD, don't get another train every time the supply station starts to fill, but aim to just have enough to keep the power station fed. Pass electricity back. 05:05:00 <Pinkbeast> Reuse infrastructure where possible, you're paying for it. 05:05:25 <Nat_aS> >Pack 64 05:05:31 <Nat_aS> I'm not the only one who prefers that 05:05:38 <Nat_aS> (it's the least ugly one) 05:05:49 <Pinkbeast> That makes money. Then... yes, you have to fill complete chains, but you can work your way along - you can make money on the first leg until you fill up the output, then build the second leg... 05:07:56 <Pinkbeast> And never unnecessarily move a train empty, the sort of routing cockup that doesn't matter in OTTD is a killer in Simutrans - a full-length Garratt train might as well run on pound notes not coal, given the speed it eats it up. 05:10:43 <Pinkbeast> Also you get the grace period after finishing a month negative - stop building _anything_. 05:11:04 <Pinkbeast> Oh, and... for some reason the default tram tracks cost about ten times as much as rails, so don't build them. :-/ 05:16:01 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 05:42:45 <Nat_aS> well anyways, Simutrans is ugly as sin. 05:43:04 <Nat_aS> even if it does have many features I wish OTTD had 05:43:40 <Nat_aS> it's art community thinks tracing 3dCG and Ariel photos are a substitute for pixel art 05:43:58 <Nat_aS> and there engine does not allow as many options as the Newgrf system 05:53:31 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B73D5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:53:51 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B736ED.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:17:43 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-135-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:17:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:22:57 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-60-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:33:46 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.48] has joined #openttd 07:00:18 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:04:10 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 07:12:21 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:19:39 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-106-141.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:19:56 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:30:57 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:34:04 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:35:53 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-107-58.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:30 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:47:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-96-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 07:53:03 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:55:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A6AB.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:04 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120310011224]] 08:09:14 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:12:08 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:57 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:13:03 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 08:13:39 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 08:22:03 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22:17 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:42 <dihedral> hello 08:26:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:34:18 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:35:25 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.noaddedsugar.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:59 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:36:57 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:53:53 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-0-219.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:55:20 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.11.198] has joined #openttd 09:00:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@163.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:31 *** Pikka_ [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:18:40 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d58-106-0-219.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:18:44 *** Pikka_ is now known as Pikka 09:23:48 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-075-090.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:24:03 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178222201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:32:09 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d083f21.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:21 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.3.236] has joined #openttd 09:48:22 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@115.133.11.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:51:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.3.236] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.12.32] has joined #openttd 10:11:37 *** Steve^ [~steve@host-78-146-16-180.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:12:50 <Steve^> Hi, with the 32bit project, the objective is to create images that are twice the resolution and with extra colour depth? 10:13:12 <Steve^> At regular zoom levels, these same images are then scaled down to fit with some algorithm? 10:15:25 <V453000> not exactly, you just use as large images as you want, but if you use larger ones than -something-, they can glitch badly 10:16:09 <Steve^> I guess my question is, do you use the same image for full zoom and scale it down for normal zoom, or do you have two different images? 10:16:22 <V453000> but of course there are some "absolute safety" templates for sprites. but sometimesi it is possible to make larger images safely if you choose the right direction 10:16:41 <V453000> ah, I guess there are multiple, I dont know anything about the extra zoom sprites reallly 10:16:47 <V453000> but downscaling sounds wrong 10:17:00 <V453000> the default should always be the normal zoom view as it always was 10:17:13 <Steve^> that's what I was thinking 10:17:23 <Steve^> shrinking images leads to losing detail 10:17:43 <Steve^> and I think normal zoom would be standard for most of the time 10:18:51 <V453000> I dont even think it is worth it to draw in the extra zoom 10:19:04 <V453000> if you need zooming, you usually want to just look at it more closely, not change the image 10:19:12 <V453000> and it is so much additional effort 10:19:28 <Steve^> I think someone needs to tell the 32bit guys that.. 10:19:49 <V453000> well I understand if you take it all from a 3D renderer, then even the 32bpp makes sense 10:20:00 <V453000> but takes the classical pixel art compltetely 10:20:37 <V453000> so people like me, a fan of pixel art, draw only in 8bpp and no extra zooms ... the classical way 10:21:00 <Elukka> well, i find 2x zoom much easier on the eyes when working on stuff 10:21:24 <Elukka> and it would of course be nice if sprites had enough resolution 10:21:30 <Elukka> just a lot of work to do it 10:21:36 <Steve^> largely depends on monitors and eyesight I guess 10:21:42 <V453000> yeah, sure, I understand some people do that ... but I dont think the resolution would help (too) much there, if not vice versa 10:21:55 <Steve^> I've seen some crazy small-pixel monitors that would need more zoom 10:22:04 <Elukka> and there's no reason you can't draw classical pixel art 32 bpp and with extra zoom levels 10:22:08 <Elukka> just a lot of work :p 10:22:12 <V453000> I wouldnt necessarily say that more pixels would mean more contrast/more obvious shapes etc so the extra zoom would actually help you build 10:22:31 <Elukka> 32bpp lets you have much nicer colors no matter how you're working 10:22:31 <V453000> lot of stupid work and no limitation by colour palette is boring 10:22:46 <Steve^> colours is definitely a good thing 10:22:56 <Elukka> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/2502/32example.png 10:23:11 <V453000> that is old palette isnt it 10:23:30 <Elukka> that's really just a mockup but that's 32bpp 10:23:38 <V453000> but all of those colours are in 8bpp? 10:23:43 <Elukka> no 10:23:48 <Elukka> there would be no way to have those colors in 8bpp 10:24:34 <V453000> dont know but I think all of them have at least identical colour in the 8bpp palette 10:24:35 <Elukka> 8bpp version is a lot less accurate and doesn't look as good imo 10:24:37 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/cets-1.png 10:25:01 <Steve^> http://wiki.openttd.org/32bpp_graphics_development_tracker Take the steel mill for example, I much prefer the 8bit version. Because it isn't scaled, you get much better contrast and detail 10:25:14 <V453000> it doesnt look as good only because you dont use lighter colours there for more contrast 10:25:34 <Elukka> there aren't appropriate colors! 10:25:44 <Elukka> and the brown in particular is all wrong 10:25:52 <Rhamphoryncus> 32bpp would let me have company colours that don't suck? 10:25:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-128.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:26:00 <Elukka> i don't see why not 10:26:43 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:26:50 <V453000> it doesnt matter that they arent the same, but the range of brightness is much higher in the 32bpp image you showed, which can definitely be reached also in 8bpp by using more of the shades of that colour 10:26:52 <V453000> anyway, cya 10:26:53 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178222201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:26:58 <Elukka> from a drawing perspective... one of the big advantages of 32bpp to me is i'm free to use brightness/contrast/saturation adjustments 10:27:27 <Elukka> with the 8 bit palette i often find the next bright color is just way too bright 10:27:46 <Elukka> if i need to make a color contrast a little bit more or do whatever with 32 bit i can do it 10:27:54 <Rhamphoryncus> the traditional 8bpp graphics have a quaint cartoonish look 10:28:09 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-080-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:28:14 <Steve^> yea 10:28:19 <Elukka> 32bpp doesn't necessarily dictate a change in style 10:28:34 <Elukka> it can still be pixel art, it doesn't have to be renders 10:28:49 <Elukka> it just means there are more colors available 10:29:24 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-135-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:29:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I often find myself at 2x zoom, so worrying about the steel mill being scaled down is backwards 10:30:07 <Elukka> incidentally 10:30:10 <Elukka> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56701 10:30:13 <Elukka> company colors that don't suck 10:31:02 <Rhamphoryncus> And although you could get close to what you want using 8bpp for the train, that's because the game is focused on trains and that includes the palette. For houses.. honestly, it's a train wreck. All that great art ruined by the lack of colours 10:32:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Changing the palette is easy. Unfortunately I'm betting a lot more than trains uses those colours, so you'll screw up plenty of other art by doing it 10:32:54 <Elukka> i dunno, doesn't screw up anything for me 10:33:20 <Rhamphoryncus> huh 10:33:28 <Elukka> actually it does change the menu backgrounds to a lighter grey i believe 10:33:37 <Elukka> i'm not sure though 10:33:40 <Elukka> but it doesn't touch other sprites 10:34:49 <Rhamphoryncus> "since this set only replaces default sprites" Ahh, so it's more about the sprites than the palette 10:35:31 <Elukka> i think you could make 32bpp sprites that visually fit in with existing 8bpp ones if you based their overall color scheme on palette colors 10:36:04 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178230023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:36:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Perhaps. Hard to. You'll make many of the existing grfs look bad by comparison :) 10:39:53 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-200-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 10:39:59 <Rhamphoryncus> looking at the ECS power station right now and a good 32bpp sprite would simply blend. You wouldn't notice anything wrong like the dithering currently 10:40:37 <Elukka> ECS is extremely varied in its art quality i think 10:40:46 <Elukka> some of the new sprites are wonderful, others just don't fit at all 10:41:32 <Rhamphoryncus> Aye, but I'm sure palette is a big part of it 10:44:33 <Rhamphoryncus> This is just a water tower: http://wiki.openttd.org/images/f/f9/Watertower_32bpp.png This is a low-resolution, heavily dithered water tower: http://wiki.openttd.org/images/7/7b/Water_tower.gif 10:45:47 <Rhamphoryncus> 8bpp is good art. 32bpp is beautiful art. 10:47:56 <Rhamphoryncus> Huh. The 32bpp trains aren't nearly as good. 10:48:25 <ffpp> when looking at screenshots I sometimes thought that the 32bpp graphics looked a bit more toy'ey than the old 8bpp ones, maybe it is intentional 10:49:02 <ffpp> at least for the vehicles/trains 10:50:16 <Rhamphoryncus> The 32bpp trains look flat. They look like perfectly smooth 3d rendered surfaces. 10:50:54 <Rhamphoryncus> "PNG version of Class125.gif" err.. I hope that wasn't a gif reencoded as png. It would explain the look. 10:52:07 <Elukka> well that first water tower wouldn't fit in with current graphics 10:52:41 <Elukka> to be honest i don't like the look of the old 32bpp project graphics 10:53:07 <Rhamphoryncus> it *is* hard 10:53:26 <Elukka> they look like bare 3D models badly in need of some more texturing 10:53:42 * Rhamphoryncus looks closer at the water tower and spots the triangles x_x 10:54:11 <Pikka> you're a triangle 10:54:31 <Rhamphoryncus> you're a square 10:54:38 <Elukka> no reason not to make them as high poly as you like if you're just going to make sprites out of them 10:54:52 <Rhamphoryncus> yup 10:55:48 <Elukka> i think another problem with the project is that they didn't really have any unifying artistic style 10:56:13 <Elukka> the limitations of the low resolution 8bpp graphics kind of enforce a certain type of style so it's easier to make graphics that fit 10:57:39 <Elukka> with 32bpp and extra zoom levels there's way less limitations 10:57:44 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-0-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:57:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:57:52 <Elukka> you can still make graphics that fit in but it takes effort. and it's open to pretty much any kind of style 10:59:41 <Elukka> if you make a full graphics replacement it doesn't need to fit in with old graphics of course but then you need a new, coherent style 11:01:11 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah 11:01:28 <Rhamphoryncus> And.. you won't achieve it on the first pass 11:01:51 <Rhamphoryncus> You need a fair bit of work before you figure out what style works best. After that you get to redo everything 11:01:57 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has left #openttd [] 11:02:13 <Elukka> heh 11:02:57 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-128.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:03:25 <Elukka> if i was tackling a task like that (and i'm not) i think i'd do mockups 11:03:48 <Elukka> just do some pictures of how you'd like the game work to look like until it looks good, then get to drawing actual sprites in that style 11:05:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-124-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 11:15:55 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah 11:16:26 <Rhamphoryncus> You can actually use real sprites for that 11:17:03 <Rhamphoryncus> alright, gonna try to get some sleep. Got a messy day ahead of me. x_x 11:17:04 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 11:28:14 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-200-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:28:29 *** mkv` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:32:07 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:35:22 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@j616s.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:46:23 *** Absolutis [~58c3a36f@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:07:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-33-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:09:13 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-080-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ffpp] 12:11:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-0-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:12:54 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-15-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:15:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 12:21:15 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-33-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-5-147.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 12:39:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-15-129.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:15:32 <planetmaker> <Steve^> Hi, with the 32bit project, the objective is to create images that are twice the resolution and with extra colour depth? <-- I'd say, the goal is to have 32bpp sprites for all zoom levels 13:15:59 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:17:12 <planetmaker> Steve^, and indeed, IMHO the style need not be different. What we want is decent 32bpp versions for what we have. And those additionally for zoom-levels 1x, 2x and 4x. 13:17:20 <planetmaker> The wiki regarding that might be hopelessly outdated 13:17:35 <planetmaker> Especially the tracker is 13:17:43 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5462:1d2f:c303:3b90] has joined #openttd 13:17:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:19:47 <Steve^> ok, so you don't want to have to scale the images 13:19:56 <planetmaker> exactly 13:20:16 <planetmaker> I want them in all three, 1x, 2x and 4x. And if they're derived from a model, i want the model file, too 13:21:25 <planetmaker> Steve^, you might look at the OpenGFX+ projects. I'd use them as staging area for the 32bpp sprites being coded. 13:21:40 <planetmaker> If we got one feature covered, we can then transfer it to OpenGFX itself easily 13:21:59 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfxplus 13:22:08 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx 13:22:11 <planetmaker> both :-) 13:22:34 <planetmaker> do you think of contributing / helping? 13:24:18 <Steve^> No, I was looking at a graphics discussion for Theme Hospital and wondered what you guys were up to 13:25:17 <planetmaker> well, the current path is to a) sort through the existing 32bpp and code them those which can be used and more importantly get all sprites in 32bpp (in all zoom levels) to have a 32bpp base set, too 13:26:18 <Belugas> hello 13:34:01 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:26 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:06:27 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:11:34 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:22 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-124-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:49 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 14:38:16 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 14:42:16 *** k^^ [~k^^@users192.kollegienet.dk] has quit [] 14:45:09 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:29 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:54:31 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 15:08:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-97-235.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 15:14:26 *** cl8 [~cccc@host-92-3-249-239.as43234.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 15:20:16 <andythenorth> Pikka boo 15:20:22 <Pikka> andykins 15:20:31 <andythenorth> so small buses then? 15:20:37 <Pikka> yes 15:20:47 <Pikka> teeny tiny weeny winy 15:20:59 <Pikka> I have sprites for 2 vehicles done but then I got distracted by av8 again 15:21:59 <andythenorth> does bandit need to be smaller? :P 15:22:48 <Pikka> I dunno, possibly. :P I was thinking of doing some trucks too since the design philosophy seems quite different. UK-style, real world vehicles. "TTD-useful" vehicles only (which means first trucks in 1930, lol) 15:27:19 <Pikka> even the horse-drawn buses I decided were not worthwhile. Anyway, cross-town services are what the little tank engines in UKRS2 are for. 15:27:37 <Nat_aS> hey andythenorth, why aren't the fishing harbors in FIRS seaports? 15:27:42 <Nat_aS> or oil rigs rather 15:27:56 <Nat_aS> it seems silly that you have to build docks next to them, silly and a bit ugly. 15:28:46 <andythenorth> 'because' 15:29:16 <Nat_aS> why? 15:30:25 <andythenorth> can't remember, but there are reasons 15:30:40 <Nat_aS> can oil rigs not touch the shore? 15:30:44 <andythenorth> someone tell me what the reasons were... 15:31:51 <Pikka> because the oil rig station is a nasty hacky thing which should be avoided if there's any alternative 15:32:01 <andythenorth> +1 15:32:18 <andythenorth> because in MP, you can steal other people's transfer cargo from oil rig stations 15:32:29 <Nat_aS> oh 15:32:32 <andythenorth> because it would accept passengers and there's no way to turn it off 15:32:47 <andythenorth> because helicopters would land there, and it looks / is stupid 15:32:54 <Pikka> new(air)ports built into industries are required :) 15:33:01 <andythenorth> because I was told to be patient and wait for new(air)ports 15:33:04 <Nat_aS> I'd think a station that is also a factory would be perfect for that, but yeah those issues should be fixed 15:33:05 <Pikka> but that's still pie in the sky, and on the water. 15:33:15 <Nat_aS> oh so it will be fixed later? 15:33:29 <andythenorth> because we don't want to patch to improve the existing station on water, even through frosch had patch for it like 3 years ago :P 15:34:33 <Nat_aS> well, I grew up in a fishing town, and you could probably make it look less silly by having a fish processing plant that is built like a normal factory (on land) but has to be close to the shore. 15:35:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:07 *** Zeknurn` [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:28 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-247-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:55 <Nat_aS> can't find reference, but I think the giant refrigerated wherehouse in Gloucester might be the largest in the world. 15:38:58 <ffpp> is there anybody using the nutracks grf ? 15:40:06 <Nat_aS> I take that back. there are probably bigger ones 15:41:06 <Nat_aS> anyways Fishing grounds > Processing plant > Market might be better than having a specialized fishing harbor 15:41:24 <Nat_aS> modern fishing ships process the fish in transit. 15:42:02 <Nat_aS> maybe keep the fishing harbor sprites as alternate seaports. 15:43:48 <andythenorth> that would be like going back to the way it was before it was the way it was the way it was before 15:43:59 <andythenorth> fishing chain has been changed n times, and isn't changing again ;) 15:44:03 <andythenorth> there was a war about it 15:44:06 <Nat_aS> :p 15:44:18 <Nat_aS> I like how the fishing ports look 15:46:07 <Nat_aS> although they might be better as buildable ports 15:47:51 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 15:49:42 <Nat_aS> gotta restart 15:49:47 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:15 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:51:18 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:52:49 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 15:53:54 <andythenorth> Pikka: so what will you do for trucks? Make HOVS, but smaller? 15:56:15 <Pikka> http://www.pruplethingz.com/ttd/horrors.png 15:56:29 <Pikka> pretty small selection compared to what you've got in bandit 15:57:27 <ffpp> what does one have to do to get compatibility between nutracks and the 2cc metros ? 15:58:47 <andythenorth> BANDIT scares me :P 15:58:54 <andythenorth> I'm not sure why it has so many trucks 15:58:59 *** Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit [] 15:59:41 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:47 <Ammler> ffpp: metro tracks of 2cc v1 is part of nutracks 15:59:54 <michi_cc> Pikka: Shouldn't DD busses have a lower load amount than normal busses? Think of the jam on the stairs ;) 16:00:34 <Pikka> they need to have some advantage, michi :P 16:00:39 <andythenorth> actually they probably load faster 16:00:43 <Pikka> and the load amount only just offsets the capacity 16:00:52 <andythenorth> the load is split to two gangways 16:01:07 <Pikka> true 16:01:10 <Pikka> andy 16:01:28 * andythenorth is guessing 16:01:34 <andythenorth> and will have more tea 16:01:42 <andythenorth> what to do with BANDIT? draw a red line through it? 16:02:17 <ffpp> Ammler: thanks, I overlooked the 3rd rail construction option, I was always looking for 'metro' instead 16:02:19 <Pikka> I dunno. there's certainly room for a US/Au style truck set, with road trains and everything 16:02:50 <Pikka> I'm sticking strictly to UK-style, and conservatively at that, with hqovs. 16:02:54 <andythenorth> if I also add euro / brit trucks, it's going to be insane 16:02:56 <andythenorth> and I plan to 16:03:09 * andythenorth has gameplay concerns 16:04:41 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!~notme@cm12.epsilon82.maxonline.com.sg] by DorpsGek 16:07:33 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 16:07:35 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:07:39 <Nat_aS> back 16:07:47 <andythenorth> 11 of the BANDIT trucks (1 in 3) are <10t 16:07:56 * andythenorth hmms 16:07:57 <zhenya271201> ÑÑÑ ÑÑÑÑкОе еÑÑÑ 16:08:10 <Pikka> <10t is not really worth it gameplaywise, imo 16:08:17 <zhenya271201> ÑегП? 16:08:19 <zhenya271201> ??? 16:08:22 <andythenorth> I want them for FIRS farms...but... 16:08:23 <Nat_aS> sorry zhenya271201 this is an english only channel 16:08:32 <Nat_aS> (I wish I knew how to say that in other languages) 16:08:46 <andythenorth> most of the smaller trucks come early in game, to represent intense competition between early truck mfrs 16:08:56 <andythenorth> I think that's maybe not going to work 16:09:05 <Pikka> well, looking at things for hqovs 16:09:21 <andythenorth> also, I have been shot down on the 'stats change over time' approach :P 16:09:51 <zhenya271201> and Russian where it by means of the translator 16:09:58 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-foundry.com/sets/BANDIT/list_all_trucks 16:10:07 <Pikka> most trucks pre-1930 are really not haulage vehicles, they're delivery or local vehicles which would be represented by the station catchment area. 16:10:15 <Pikka> that's the way I figured it 16:10:15 <Nat_aS> lol okay 16:10:22 <zhenya271201> ЌЎа МП ÑÑÑ ÐµÑÑÑ ÑÑÑÑкОе 16:10:39 <Pikka> any large deliveries, even just from one side of a town to the other, before that time would be done by train. 16:11:00 * andythenorth considers red line through trucks 16:12:51 *** bremerjoe [57aec431@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:13:20 <zhenya271201> help I russian 16:13:44 <Terkhen> hello 16:14:08 <zhenya271201> I МеЌМПгП know english 16:14:47 <zhenya271201> and where Russian chat 16:15:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd 16:15:40 <bremerjoe> Hi everybody 16:16:17 <ffpp> hi joe 16:16:43 <andythenorth> wicomico has come out of this badly, they're nearly out of business :P 16:17:06 <andythenorth> gah 16:17:30 <andythenorth> I remember why I have to have massive redundancy in truck models: drive-in roadstops :| 16:17:46 <Pikka> hmm? 16:18:07 <andythenorth> small trucks without trailers for drive in stops 16:18:08 <Ammler> zhenya271201: maybe better try the russian ttd forums 16:18:16 <andythenorth> trucks with trailers for drive through 16:18:32 <andythenorth> it's apparently a requirement that trucks are available for drive-in stops 16:18:57 <Pikka> well it does help 16:19:11 <Nat_aS> I wish long trucks could stop at drive-in stops 16:19:12 <Pikka> but you don't need that many for that, do you? :) 16:19:20 <Nat_aS> drive through are ugly 16:19:40 <andythenorth> I've deleted 4 smaller trucks 16:20:13 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:20:17 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 16:20:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:20:48 <Alberth> hi all 16:20:56 <Nat_aS> hello. 16:22:36 <zhenya271201> Ñб 16:22:50 <bremerjoe> Well it would surely look weird if you would imagine A truck with extra trailer trying to squeeze into such tiny stop in real life. ;) 16:22:51 <zhenya271201> Ñ ÐœÐµÐ¿ÐŸÐœÑл 16:23:39 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:24:48 *** Pikka_ [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 16:24:53 <andythenorth> is upgrading stats really so evils? 16:25:21 <Pikka_> well 16:25:47 <Pikka_> not necessarily, but it's not a very obvious mechanism, so it's probably to be avoided where possible. 16:26:52 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:26:56 <zhenya271201> creature you 16:27:24 <zhenya271201> I rus 16:27:45 <zhenya271201> russian 16:27:56 <zhenya271201> to pley 16:29:30 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:31:38 *** Pikka [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:32:04 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:35:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19359.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:05 <Nat_aS> bremerjoe well IRL long trucks back into stops 16:37:25 <Nat_aS> drive through stops for trailer trucks are unrealistic. 16:38:03 <Nat_aS> (well I don't know how land trains unload, they probably either load from the side or disconnect the trailers and load them separately.) 16:39:10 <bremerjoe> They do but then the stops are considerably bigger. And unless they do side loading (which not all are capable of) they have to drop off the trailer at the ramp and move the truck to another ramp for unloading. 16:39:36 <Nat_aS> yeah that's what I though 16:39:56 <Nat_aS> probably be infuriatingly slow in OTTD and difficult to implement. 16:40:22 <Nat_aS> but trucks less than 1 tile long should be able to use drive in stops, even if they are articulated. 16:40:29 <Nat_aS> this is most trucks. 16:41:01 <bremerjoe> Most likely more than difficult and I doubt it would be worth the effort 16:41:03 <Nat_aS> a backing in animation might be hard though. 16:41:14 <Nat_aS> why CAN'T trains go backwards? 16:41:31 <bremerjoe> Because then we would start seeing a real life simulation which would be not as fun as the game is. 16:41:36 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:43:03 <zhenya271201> and where to find the Russian server 16:43:40 <Nat_aS> i mean mechanically, 16:43:43 <bremerjoe> And I simply guess that a huge amount of things would need to be rewritten to allo decoupling of trucks. But then we would also need proper ramps for unloading and so on so there are endless things that would need to be done without adding much to the fun in the game. 16:44:14 <Nat_aS> not really decoupling, just an animation of the truck turning around and backing in. 16:44:26 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:28 <Rubidium> zhenya271201: there's some Russian openttd/ttd forum. Maybe they got an IRC channel 16:45:08 <Nat_aS> same for backwards trains, some trains swap front and rear cars to give the illusion of moving backwards, but that only works if you have one type of car, why not swap all the cars in the train? 16:45:25 <Nat_aS> it's not about simulaiton, it's about eyecandy 16:45:59 <Nat_aS> eyecandy does add fun to the game 16:47:54 <bremerjoe> doesn't the game show the turning around? Have to look at it next time I play. ;) But real trains do move backwards. As far as I know heavy/long freight trains need to move backwards a bit before starting. This way the weight of the wagons comes into play only step by step while the couplings stretch out. GHard for me to describe in words though. 16:48:16 <Alberth> it doesn't show it 16:48:27 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-96-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:18 <Alberth> as for going backwards, reality has a bug with trains going backwards, but we cannot fix it 16:49:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.91] has joined #openttd 16:50:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7f31.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:51 <Alberth> hi frosch123! 16:50:57 <Nat_aS> In game trains can magicly reverse at the end of lines, or if you turn it on they can reverse at stations 16:51:07 <frosch123> hai albert :) 16:51:14 <Nat_aS> but I always have ways for trans to turn around naturally because it looks nicer. 16:51:48 <Nat_aS> BUT the NA trainset has amtrack trains that can swap the sprites for front engine and rear car, so if you say only have passinger cars, the train will look like it is going backwards 16:51:54 <Nat_aS> like amtrack trains do. 16:52:16 <Nat_aS> I was asking, why not swap all the sprites on a train so any type of train can go backwards? 16:52:25 <Nat_aS> not really going backwards, just reversed sprites. 16:54:43 <Alberth> with different length wagons, or with multi-wagon sprites (ie sprites that look like a long one if the train goes straight)? 16:54:58 <Nat_aS> oh good point 16:55:12 <Nat_aS> probably best for passenger trains then. 16:55:57 <Nat_aS> amtrack trains are designed to reverse in real life because they can't afford the luxury or turning around. trying to squeeze a bit of passinger traffic onto freight rail lines. 16:56:18 <Nat_aS> did you know the accela cannot reach it's designed speed, or tilt like it was designed to? 16:56:44 <Nat_aS> because the tracks it uses don't have enough straightaways, and there is not enough clearance in the corners to allow tilting 16:56:57 <Alberth> lol :) 16:57:04 *** zhenya271201 [6d3ea644@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 16:57:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A6AB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:57:46 <Nat_aS> it's almost like the F35 of trains. 16:58:14 *** ffpp [~me@dslb-188-097-247-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:01 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7364 17:12:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-150-165-226.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 17:13:59 <bremerjoe> @ Nat_aS: LoL 17:15:41 <Nat_aS> another overpriced bureaucratic nightmare that can't do what it was designed to do. 17:16:46 *** Guest7364 [~Andy@host-78-149-97-235.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:19:57 * andythenorth deletes 3 more trucks 17:21:18 <andythenorth> Pikka_: fake names don't float your boat? 17:22:34 <Pikka_> well, I think people identify things better with real names. it can give the set a bit more character. 17:23:13 <Alberth> that assumes that people actually know the names 17:23:25 <Pikka_> and it can give artists and set designers more direction in what they're creating :) 17:23:41 <Pikka_> if you model things after real vehicles 17:23:41 <andythenorth> NARS with fake names would be rubbish 17:23:50 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:11 <Alberth> oh, for the designers I can see a use 17:24:23 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:24:32 * andythenorth ponders making BANDIT use real names 17:25:03 * Alberth would not see the difference between fake and real names 17:27:45 <Pikka_> for those who do know the vehicles, it provides mental shortcuts 17:28:11 <Pikka_> for those who don't know the vehicles, it means there's real-life information which they can look up and apply to the game, hopefully 17:28:53 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-124-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:28:58 <Pikka_> if I'm using a train grf with 50 locomotives with completely made-up names and appearances, I have to go hunting for the locomotive I want for a particular job by reading the stats of the locomotives one by one 17:29:10 <Pikka_> and chances are, the next time I want that locomotive, I'll have forgotten which one it was 17:29:15 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:29:24 <andythenorth> are trucks as distinctive as trains though? 17:30:00 <Alberth> Pikka_: indeed, that's what I have to do, which is why I hardly play with vehicle newgrfs 17:30:35 <Pikka_> Alberth: but if you know something about, say, the trains of france, and you're using a "real names" french set, you can go straight to the express locomotive, straight to the heavy freight locomotive, etc. 17:30:59 <Pikka_> andythenorth: I don't know 17:31:19 <Alberth> if only that 'if' was true for me :) 17:31:57 <Pikka_> I wouldn't have thought so, which is why I'm only having one rigid, one tipper, and one semi, per 20 year generation. :) 17:32:51 <Pikka_> alberth: and even if you don't know, you can go onto wikipedia and read about the french railways, and then apply that knowledge to the french openttd set. 17:32:52 <Alberth> I am more a 'build random nice transport links' player than a 'build a rail network' 17:33:56 <Alberth> ie I like the puzzling of connecting tracks, trains are needed mostly to 'create' the problem 17:34:44 <andythenorth> ?? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2725/BANDIT_realnames.png 17:36:05 <Alberth> I'd expect prefixes to identify similar types of trucks 17:36:41 <Alberth> and Mack B80 vs MackAC6 look completely different to me 17:37:12 <Pikka_> or just sort them by category, then intro date. by brand doesn't really make sense. 17:37:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:37:50 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-96-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 17:37:58 <Pikka_> but I guess that's fine tuning 17:39:46 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-31-199.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:41:24 <andythenorth> maybe I should cop out and provide a parameter option 17:41:35 <andythenorth> often a sign of failing to decide :P 17:46:04 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:18 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:50:13 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7371 17:50:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-150-157-27.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:07 <Nat_aS> Pikka, what about when you have 100 real locomotives and you can't pick a good one because you aren't a rail nerd, and the locomotives are based off of real world stats and thus aren't balanced for gameplay? 17:52:16 <Nat_aS> that's a more real problem IMO 17:52:39 <Pikka_> well, sure 17:53:03 <Pikka_> if the grf is badly designed there's not much you can do about that 17:53:29 <Pikka_> but some people are more interested in playing model trains than in playing an interesting game, so I guess those survey sets have their place too. 17:53:33 <Nat_aS> 2cc trainset, i'm looking at you. 17:53:47 <Nat_aS> god damn, how am I suposed to pick out a train in that? 17:53:51 *** Guest7371 [~Andy@host-78-150-165-226.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:54:26 <Nat_aS> personaly. I prefer the model train approach, BUT I would rather have psudo realistic trains 17:54:43 <Nat_aS> I don't like to think of my map as being the real world, but rather an alternate history or something. 17:55:03 <Nat_aS> and I still want them to be gameplay balanced because cheating isn't as fun 17:55:34 <Nat_aS> I don't want the game to be hard, but I want to feel like I earned that money and that my trains are providing a useful service. 17:57:37 *** Steve^ [~steve@host-78-146-16-180.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:29 <Nat_aS> is FIRS the only industry set with fish? 18:01:24 *** bremerjoe [57aec431@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 18:02:35 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:03:41 <andythenorth> think ECS has it too 18:03:55 <Nat_aS> where can I find ECS documentation? 18:04:03 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 18:04:42 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/ECS_Vectors 18:04:48 <Nat_aS> thanks 18:05:40 <andythenorth> meh 18:05:53 * andythenorth thinks maybe the game doesn't need a truck set 18:06:25 <Nat_aS> why not? 18:06:29 <Nat_aS> HEQS is fun 18:08:31 <andythenorth> there are no obvious constraints to design the set against 18:09:21 <Nat_aS> meaning? 18:10:12 <Nat_aS> also it seems ECS is even more excessive than FIRS 18:11:22 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7375 18:11:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-150-169-105.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 18:15:50 <Nat_aS> andythenorth, would you consider making a light version of FIRS? 18:15:56 <andythenorth> yes 18:16:00 <Nat_aS> with the same chains, but shorter 18:16:05 <andythenorth> it's planned 18:16:11 <Nat_aS> like Raw > Processed > Market 18:16:35 *** Guest7375 [~Andy@host-78-150-157-27.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:46 <Nat_aS> but keeping supplies for boosted production, and other cool things like fish 18:17:16 <Nat_aS> also, have you considered making forests work like tropical sawmills? 18:19:38 *** Pikka_ [~chatzilla@d110-32-48-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:44 <andythenorth> yes. I don't like it. It's an annoying behaviour 18:20:22 <Nat_aS> aww 18:20:42 <michi_cc> Would be nice as an anti-tree-flood measure :) 18:20:56 <Nat_aS> and a nice lategame money sink 18:20:57 * andythenorth has removed 25% of the trucks from BANDIT 18:20:58 <Nat_aS> :p 18:21:12 <Nat_aS> for people who complain that lategame is too easy 18:21:22 <Nat_aS> try rebuilding all the forests 18:21:30 <andythenorth> they should play lategame on a small crowded map 18:21:39 <andythenorth> with very high water + mountains 18:21:43 <andythenorth> *not* easy 18:21:52 <Nat_aS> yes 18:21:59 <michi_cc> It would need a new behaviour that's chopping trees more randomly than the tropic circle to look good though. 18:22:02 <Nat_aS> people who say OTTD is too easy don't play intresting maps. 18:22:25 <andythenorth> planting trees is dull 18:22:26 <Nat_aS> hmm, maybe some sort of exponential decay? 18:22:44 <Nat_aS> trees are cut at random, but closer to the mill is more frequent 18:22:46 <andythenorth> planting trees for tropical should actually be removed, it's a violation of game principles 18:22:54 <andythenorth> also funding industry should be removed 18:23:03 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:23:10 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Why would you need to? Tree removal should just about match three growth rate. 18:23:14 <Nat_aS> so the forest would sort of fade instead of giant square chunks. 18:23:27 <Nat_aS> andythenorth what do you mean? 18:23:46 <andythenorth> micro-managing the planting of trees in tropic is not transportation 18:23:50 <Nat_aS> violation of game principles? The player has to be anti-environmental? 18:23:52 <andythenorth> funding industries is not transportation 18:23:59 <andythenorth> the game is a transportation game 18:24:16 <Nat_aS> Humbug, I think you should be able to buy stock in industries like in Railroad Tycoon. 18:24:17 <Nat_aS> :P 18:24:18 <andythenorth> this is the reason given for multiple ideas being undesirable 18:24:48 <Nat_aS> maybe the regional inspector can get mad at you if you form a vertical monopoly. 18:25:50 <Nat_aS> maybe the company that makes engines for you could exist on the map, and you could buy stock in them, or even send them engineering supplies for a discount on trains. 18:33:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:34:30 <Pinkbeast> I think this may get a bit circular; X should not be in the game because it's a transportation game. How do we know it is? Because X is not in the game. :-) 18:34:45 <Nat_aS> ^ 18:35:31 <Nat_aS> it also works in the other direction. X should be in the game because it is related to transportation, how do we know it is? Because X is in the game :P 18:35:53 <Nat_aS> what company do you know operates trains, trucks, buses, ships, and airlines? 18:36:14 <Nat_aS> I think there are more examples of train companies that fund industries than there are of train companies that are also airlines. 18:38:08 <Pinkbeast> British Rail had sea services; all the Big Four ran feeder bus services; the GWR and LMS ran Railway Air Services. 18:38:25 <andythenorth> pipelines are not in the game because they are not transportation 18:38:27 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:38:35 <andythenorth> industry ownership is not in because it's not transportation 18:38:47 <andythenorth> stock market / more sophisticated money - not in because not transportation 18:38:50 <Pinkbeast> Yabbut pipelines would be a fine thing and some continuous-transport modes would be transportation... 18:39:11 <Nat_aS> pipelines are transportion 18:39:20 <Nat_aS> they are not in the game because they do not fit the economic model. 18:40:36 <Nat_aS> how would you get paid? 18:41:41 <Nat_aS> "Not transportation" is a weak argument, and in the pipeline case it is completely fallacious. Pipelines transport liquids, they are the most efficient method of doing so. 18:41:53 <Pinkbeast> Err every time a cargo packet slurps through the pipeline? I don't see the difficulty there. 18:42:41 <Nat_aS> they are not in the game because they don't fit the economic model well, new cases would have to be invented. It would pretty much be constant profit for free once set up. 18:43:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24057 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/thai.txt welsh.txt): 18:43:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:43:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 7 changes by Parastais 18:43:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: thai - 41 changes by kenny 18:43:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by edd_k 18:43:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: welsh - 3 changes by kazzie 18:43:16 <andythenorth> 'profit for free' < unlike coal trains? :P 18:43:25 <Pinkbeast> That seems to be a common argument but frankly given the situation in vanilla where you find a coalmine, a power station, slap down two stations and what andy has written more tersely 18:44:21 <Nat_aS> Imagine constant coal trains that never break down, have a constant flow in one direction, don't take up platform space, ect ect 18:44:33 <Pinkbeast> Pipelines could be given (somewhat artificial, yes) downsides to bring them into balance, like those tree-loving lunatics in towns objecting strongly to overground pipelines in their area... or capacity upgrades being much more difficult than buying an extra train. 18:44:39 <Nat_aS> I mean I supose pumps could have maintanance costs and breakdowns. 18:45:22 <Nat_aS> but they would offer massive advantages over trains due to the dirasticly simplified infrastructure. 18:45:44 <Nat_aS> anyways, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but that's the reason they are not in the game 18:45:49 <Nat_aS> not because they don't transport things 18:45:57 <Nat_aS> because they literally do. 18:46:13 <Pinkbeast> I think actually they're not in the game because no-one can be arsed to code them up. 18:46:21 <Nat_aS> yeah 18:46:33 <Nat_aS> they would require a whole new class of thing, and a new ecomonic model 18:46:42 <Pinkbeast> I really doubt if someone came up with a working continuous-transport implementation to the OTTD coding style etc etc, it would be rejected. 18:46:46 <Pinkbeast> What new economic model? 18:47:23 <Pinkbeast> Coal goes onto a train at A and comes off it at B. Oil goes into a pipe at A and comes out it at B. You get paid. Same as before. 18:47:25 <Nat_aS> well oil by pipe would have to pay less than oil by train because of the reduced infrastructure. 18:47:34 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7380 18:47:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78.149.103.255] has joined #openttd 18:47:41 <Nat_aS> or there would be no reason to ever build oil trains. 18:48:27 <Pinkbeast> Well, of course, oil doesn't now go by train very often... but in the game, oil trains might often use your existing infrastructure (and besides in vanilla it's not like it costs anything to maintain...) 18:48:31 <Nat_aS> but I supose that might not be bad, I mean most of the time IRL oil is transported by boat or popeline. 18:49:10 <Nat_aS> so yeah, to implement it, I'd just make pumps work like trains, new ones get invented as time progresses, and they have a running cost. 18:49:21 <Nat_aS> and pumps have to be built ever x amount of tiles 18:49:27 <Pinkbeast> And IRL there isn't a constant need to upgrade capacity on pipelines. Build a railway, you can run more trains down it. Build a pipe, and you want to pipe more oil? Whoops, new pipe. 18:49:51 <Nat_aS> yeah, upgrading pipes would happen too I guess. 18:50:06 <Nat_aS> get some coders on this now then! 18:50:14 <Pinkbeast> And if you had to tunnel past towns... whoops, expense city. It could be made something that works sometimes but not always. 18:50:19 <Nat_aS> I'll make sprites for it! 18:51:20 *** Guest7380 [~Andy@host-78-150-169-105.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:32 <Nat_aS> also unlike trains, pipes would only be able to carry water or oil 18:51:35 <Nat_aS> never both. 18:52:14 <Pinkbeast> And alcohol and milk. :-) 18:52:29 <Nat_aS> lol 18:52:40 <Nat_aS> those are transported by bottle IRL for a reason. 19:05:45 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:09:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:10:23 <Wolf01> hello 19:11:23 <Alberth> hello 19:14:15 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:14:19 <LordAro> hello! 19:14:24 <Pinkbeast> Hello? 19:14:31 <Nat_aS> hello! 19:14:44 <Wolf01> oh, no, not again... 19:14:52 <LordAro> if you are reading this, my debian unstable installation is apparently working :) 19:15:01 <Nat_aS> yay! 19:15:04 * Nat_aS claps 19:15:16 <Pinkbeast> And if you are reading this, my debian oldstable installation is still working. 19:15:46 <LordAro> how boring :P 19:15:47 <Nat_aS> lol 19:15:48 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 19:16:05 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:16:09 <Nat_aS> if you are reading this, my ubuntu installation has not died yet :p 19:16:09 * Pinkbeast looks smug as if Aro's computer actually just exploded 19:16:26 <Nat_aS> god I have no idea how this computer still works 19:16:42 <Nat_aS> (works is a very generous term here) 19:17:14 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:17:18 <LordAro> hmm 19:17:35 <LordAro> ...maybe its not working as well as intended :D 19:17:53 * Pinkbeast actually looks smug now. 19:18:06 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 19:19:01 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:02 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:13 <Nat_aS> it was a gaming laptop back in 2007, in 2009 I carried it in my backpack across the length of the united states almost twice. Most of the external parts are busted, the battery is at critical, the plug does not supply power if kinked the wrong way, the CD tray wont stay closed, the arrow keys do not work because I spilled beer on them (i'm glad I have not had to use the terminal) and the hinge is cracked, preventing me from safely folding it 19:19:20 <Nat_aS> AND IT STILL RUNS UNIX 19:19:22 <Nat_aS> :P 19:19:32 <Nat_aS> good thing I have a nice new computer for windows. 19:19:35 <Nat_aS> next to it 19:19:38 <Nat_aS> so I can multitask. 19:19:58 <telanus1> Nat_as: Sound like my backup cellphone 19:21:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-094-223-124-064.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:49 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-104-25.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:29:06 <Alberth> it also runs unix? 19:29:45 <Nat_aS> does android count as unix? 19:30:04 *** JVassie [~James@2.25.209.48] has joined #openttd 19:30:11 <Nat_aS> my backup phone is the same as my current one, BUT it has a huge crack in the touch screen 19:30:15 <Nat_aS> so I gave it to my brother. 19:32:22 <telanus1> mine's an old 6610: It's fallen into pepsi, had a swim at the deep-end of the pool, and fell out while mountaineering. Now it works when it wants too. Sux when it decide to switch off in the middle of a call 19:32:44 <Alberth> 'unix' is defined as just a set of kernel primitives mostly, so android probably counts as such, technically 19:33:14 <Alberth> saves on the phone bill :p 19:34:02 <__ln__> but UNIX® is a different thing 19:34:31 <Nat_aS> i like how the poster child for free software was invented by ATT 19:36:42 <frosch123> does it provide a system v api? :p 19:39:38 *** Absolutis [~58c3a36f@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:12 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-0-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 19:45:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 19:46:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78.149.103.255] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:46:47 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:47:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 19:50:39 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-5-147.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:28 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:56:25 <Zuu> And then there is poxis Unix. 19:58:19 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:03:24 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:04:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:06 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 20:23:40 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-255-81.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:29:38 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-0-234.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:29:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:34:35 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:13 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.91] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:49:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.91] has joined #openttd 20:54:37 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196-210-232-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 20:54:46 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:54:50 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 20:57:20 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-91.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:00:38 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:02:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-144-172-23.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:03:05 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:03:41 <frosch123> night 21:03:44 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7f31.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:34 <FLHerne> Has anyone managed to merge any of the autotimetabling patches with recent Cargodist? I keep failing with Slim Timetable Separation, and the other one is thousands of revisions behind trunk :-( 21:25:45 *** Steve^ [~steve@host-78-146-16-180.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:33:54 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7403 21:33:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-104-4.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:54 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-67-207.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:38:35 *** Guest7403 [~Andy@host-78-144-172-23.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:43:30 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-137-191-29.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:43:59 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 21:45:14 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:47:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-104-4.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:51:59 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:52:11 <bremerjoe> good evening 21:58:28 <FLHerne> evening 21:58:42 <Terkhen> hi bremerjoe 21:59:05 <FLHerne> It's been a bit quiet on her for the last 2 hours :P 21:59:11 <FLHerne> *here 21:59:32 <Terkhen> FLHerne: to my knowledge the only custom build updated recently is chill's patchpack; I don't know what patches it includes, though 22:03:00 <FLHerne> Terkhen: That's also 1.5k revisions behind trunk :-( 22:03:42 <FLHerne> Which is why I decided to make my own patchpack, but I can't get all the patches I want to play nicely :-P 22:04:52 <FLHerne> Mostly working, I just need to get More Heightlevels and a timetable patch in, then I'll have enough features to get away from Chill's pack, which is what I have atm 22:07:08 <bremerjoe> Is the patchpack really so good? I know he invests a lot of time apparently and most of the patches sound amazing but as far as I understand you do not even have additional zoom levels in the latest Version of CPP? 22:07:20 *** lmergen [~lmergen@5352EA70.cm-6-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:10:10 <FLHerne> It's a brilliant pack - CargoDist, bridge/tunnel signals, more heightlevels, better timetabling, progsigs etc all in one patch - I could never go back to trunk OTTD now :P 22:10:55 <FLHerne> Unfortunately, it is quite a long way behind trunk in other things, so no rivers, autorefit etc 22:12:08 <FLHerne> Now some GRFs have dropped support so they can use the new features, I've started trying to make my own, but mainly it's just shown me how much work ChillCore must have put in 22:13:07 <FLHerne> The little things in his version like non-lethal road crossings just aren't obvious until you don't have them anymore 22:24:10 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:24:12 <bremerjoe> To be honest the extra zoom and the rivers were some of the best additions for me as a player. Missing out on those would s***. I will keep sticking to the cargodist version I am playing currently and keep my eyes open for changes on CPP. ;) 22:29:07 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:29:25 *** smoovi [~smoovi@e178230023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:29:48 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 22:30:19 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:41 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 22:42:45 <Nat_aS> late to the party, but cargodist is the most important feature for me 22:42:50 <Nat_aS> what are good packs that include it? 22:42:56 <Nat_aS> and are up to date with everything else? 22:52:14 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:53:48 <Terkhen> good night 22:55:01 <bremerjoe> I simply use the latest precompiled version from the CargoDist thread. Would not be able to compile my own version I am afraid so I am grateful if someone precompiles them for noobs like me. 22:55:12 <bremerjoe> Good night Terkhen! 22:55:36 <Nat_aS> yeah but what about other patches? 22:56:06 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:56:21 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:56:55 <Zuu> Playing CargoDist has the adventage of having compile farm binaries and thus have integration with OTTDAU which is good for someone lazy like me. ;-) 22:57:27 <Nat_aS> compile farm bianaries? 22:57:37 <bremerjoe> Unfortunately it seems that the best/most complete pack is CPP which is a bit behind. Ca't even imagine how much work it has to be to merge various patches written by people in different styles, and in the end still making all of them work. 22:57:45 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:58:23 <Zuu> Though, the last farm build from cargodist seem to be from 2011-06-05. 22:58:48 <Zuu> Nat_aS: A compile farm is a computer/system with compilers for many different targets (eg. linux, windows etc.) 22:59:09 <Nat_aS> ahh 22:59:22 <bremerjoe> Compile farm is a setup that I think is provided by the ottdcoop crew or at least some other devs that takes the patch and merges it with the game. It then provides "ready to go"versions that you can just start playing with. 22:59:26 <Zuu> OpenTTD have a compile farm that builds stables and nightlies. 22:59:55 <Nat_aS> oh yes 23:00:02 <Nat_aS> I do enjoy that functonality 23:00:18 <Nat_aS> esp since the cargodist package comes with TTD Grfs 23:00:26 <Nat_aS> (which I tohught they weren't suposed to do :P) 23:00:33 *** xiong [~xiong@76-218-102-28.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:37 <Zuu> That sounds like something has gone wrong. 23:01:19 <bremerjoe> When checking the cargodist release directory I see latest was March 16th this year 23:01:21 <bremerjoe> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cargodist/releases/g6c6dacea-cd/ 23:01:37 <Nat_aS> is there a changelog? 23:01:40 <Nat_aS> should I update? 23:02:13 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-158-149-6.range86-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 12.0/20120321033733]] 23:02:15 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@chomsky.torservers.net] has joined #openttd 23:04:47 <Zuu> Hmm several of the #openttdcoop finger items don't follow the format specified at http://finger.openttd.org 23:04:54 <Zuu> Including Cargodist. 23:05:32 <Zuu> The third column in http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/versions.txt is supposed to give the path to the files from the root dir. 23:05:37 <bremerjoe> Zuu: You are talking chinese to me ;) 23:06:21 <Zuu> I'm talking about the interface used by OTTDAU to figure out about where to download files. 23:08:36 * Zuu tries to find a good place to file a report to #openttdcoop 23:09:44 <bremerjoe> Joerg chuckles at the name OTTDAU due to the german meaning of DAU 23:10:29 * Zuu has been told about DAU by some fellow German people in the channel. 23:11:52 <Zuu> anyway, it dosen't have to be solved right now. It reports the latest cargodist to be from june 2011, so it has apparently been broken for a while. 23:11:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d99-199-11-52.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:11:57 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:24:18 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:29:25 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 23:34:29 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:19 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:36:25 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-96-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:44:53 <bremerjoe> eyes semms to become square shaped, time for bed. good night y'all! 23:45:17 *** bremerjoe [57aec501@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 23:45:33 <Wolf01> 'night 23:45:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host205-58-dynamic.25-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:51:40 *** kaenkky [~kaenkky_@GYCDIV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:56:42 *** Steve^ [~steve@host-78-146-16-180.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:43 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd