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00:02:02 <Eddi|zuHause> because you did not make one... 00:02:36 <FLHerne> I want one too! 00:02:45 <FLHerne> Waaah! :P 00:03:19 <FLHerne> But seriously, that would be cool, I used to play SC2K on my old PowerBook :D 00:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between SC2K and TTD is that SC2K has a worthy 21st century successor with SC4. while TTD has not 00:05:27 <FLHerne> SC4 is not a worthy successor, though :P 00:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> all the people making mods for SC4 are not available for making an SC2K clone 00:05:56 <FLHerne> It changed the idea so much that it's not really the same game :-( 00:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever. i did enjoy SC4 very much 00:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea how SC5 will be, though 00:09:35 <FLHerne> SC4 v SC2k is much like Lomo v TTD, actually - that we have OTTD [i]and[/i] a Lomo modding community proves it's possible :D 00:10:27 <FLHerne> Locomotion is at least as much a TTD successor as SC4 is an SC2k one... 00:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> successor? sure. worthy? maybe, maybe not. 21st century? certainly not... 00:12:15 <FLHerne> Released 2004? 00:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but with totally outdated technology 00:12:42 <Eddi|zuHause> 8bpp? sprite-based? 00:12:49 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that has absolutely nothing to do with 21st century 00:13:37 <Eddi|zuHause> OpenTTD practically only exist, because Lomo is no significant improvement over TTD 00:14:04 <FLHerne> Are you sure LoMo is both sprite-based and 8bpp? 00:14:09 * FLHerne goes to check 00:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 00:14:42 <Mazur> I am sprite-based and 8 bpp. 00:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i prefer fanta. 00:16:53 <FLHerne> It certainly manages not to look it then; better than OTTD 32bpp EZ in some ways... 00:17:57 <FLHerne> I just assumed it wasn't sprite-based because of the sheer number of angles '< 00:19:04 * FLHerne goes to bed 00:21:02 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 00:40:08 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:42:41 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:45:06 *** teggi [teggi@215.185.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [] 00:49:34 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:11:51 *** Devedse [~Devedse@kbl-gs20069.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:38 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:18:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.102.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:26:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:30:54 <Nat_aS> oh man I missed the discussion I started :c 01:31:04 * Nat_aS hopes some of the people there are still awake 01:31:30 <Nat_aS> I think SC3000 was a good sequel, and added some nice things, but it also got rid of a lot of cool features 01:31:37 <Nat_aS> and SC4 went in a bad direction 01:31:40 <Nat_aS> way too fiddly. 01:31:47 <Nat_aS> too hard to earn money 01:32:04 <Nat_aS> terrain became too complex while the basic building mechanic remained simple. 01:32:24 <Nat_aS> Cities XL half fixes a bunch of problems SC4 had, but it' 01:32:30 <Nat_aS> it's not perfect either 01:32:43 <Nat_aS> road layouts in that game can become a mess quickly. 01:33:15 <Nat_aS> you can build roads in any direction, even curves, but buildings are always perfect squares. 01:34:22 <Nat_aS> perfect squares, but not bound by any sort of grid, so good luck building something efficient. 01:36:16 <Rhamphoryncus> shhh, you're making me want to build my own engine from scratch 01:36:24 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:52 <Nat_aS> honestly, an engine that looks and works like sim city 2000 would be perfect 01:39:22 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.95.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:39:23 <Nat_aS> just taking advantage of modern computing power for more detailed simulations, but keeping hand sprited isometric graphics. 01:40:05 <Nat_aS> I'd add garbage and agricultural zones from Sim City 3000, and take advantage of modern computing power to have an overcomplex traffic simulation. 01:40:37 <Nat_aS> IE, each sim has a house and work, and travels between them using a pathfinding algorithm. 01:40:51 <Nat_aS> which is much less ludicrous these days than it was in the 90s. 01:43:55 <Nat_aS> it's a damn shame that Sim city classic is open source, but SC2k is not 01:44:03 <Nat_aS> and EA probably wont let go of it 01:55:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B718.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:02:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C61B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:18 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 02:08:00 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 02:08:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 02:10:45 *** pugi_ [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:12:06 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-052-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:54:14 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 02:57:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 03:42:04 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:c465:4cee:126f:6c20] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:45:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:51:18 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:47:13 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 04:51:04 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67D63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:51:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC672B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:22:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:14:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:17:10 <andythenorth> bongiorno 06:17:22 <Nat_aS> hi 06:29:49 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:37:49 <andythenorth> industry tile 'animation_info' - the frame_count parameter is exact? 06:38:46 <andythenorth> it's not a frame number, zero-indexed or other things that would cause unexpected results? 06:40:43 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:49:05 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:54:47 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 06:55:50 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 07:01:20 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:01:49 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:09:33 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 07:16:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:16:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19321.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:45:01 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:45:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:45:19 <Alberth> moin 07:46:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:47:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 07:49:04 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 07:57:35 <Terkhen> good morning 07:58:35 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-35-89.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:44 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:50 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:44 *** APTX [APTX@89-78-217-144.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 08:13:06 <NGC3982> top o' the mornin lads 08:17:10 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:39 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 08:32:55 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-98-208.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 08:33:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 08:33:21 <Wolf01> hello 08:36:56 <Alberth> hello 08:37:21 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:46:03 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.95.16] has joined #openttd 08:56:38 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:00:10 *** tegro [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:31 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:32 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:16:23 *** tegro [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:17:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:21:35 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 09:23:24 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-114-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:37:58 *** th_gergo [~thiering@2E6B2A8B.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 09:41:12 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:42:39 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:14 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:10:19 <drac_boy> hi 10:10:48 <Alberth> hi 10:11:09 <drac_boy> how're you? 10:11:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.102.249] has joined #openttd 10:14:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:20:16 <Alberth> pretty good, and you? 10:20:54 <drac_boy> doing ok, just trying to look a bit into laptops again. hopefully finding something this time -_- 10:21:05 <drac_boy> not much progress to say on my grf project atm tho :p 10:23:03 * drac_boy just wanted a simple laptop for daily work on the go 10:24:59 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:31:18 <Alberth> don't set requirements, and you're done in about 10 minutes ;) 10:32:24 <drac_boy> Alberth problem is...if you do that you're going to end up with something that can't do more than notes taking which isn't even a laptop at all 10:32:39 <drac_boy> :) 10:33:14 <Alberth> hmm, not good :( 10:36:31 <drac_boy> yeah..so need to pick something :) 10:41:37 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:42:19 <drac_boy> what you doing now Alberth? 10:42:44 <Alberth> answering your highlight :p 10:43:50 <drac_boy> heh so being lazy? :P 10:43:51 <Alberth> I am deciding how to break up a patch into a patch-sequence 10:45:18 <Alberth> trouble is I wrote that patch a month ago, so trying to remember its structure at the same time :) 10:45:42 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:13 <drac_boy> have fun :p 10:56:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0099bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:19 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 11:11:37 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 11:20:26 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.229.61] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:20:58 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 11:21:07 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:23:54 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:24:09 *** Devedse [~Devedse@cable-125-94.zeelandnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:29:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 11:29:21 <Alberth> o/ andy 11:30:53 <andythenorth> hi hi 11:33:24 <andythenorth> so....drawing railtypes *over* a station tile 11:33:28 <andythenorth> what stops it? 11:33:50 <andythenorth> because the method of drawing the station as overlays on the track is bonkers and provably broken 11:34:29 <drac_boy> heh 11:34:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: railtypes *are* drawn on top... 11:34:38 <drac_boy> always finding something to break every single hour are you? :P 11:35:00 <andythenorth> hmm 11:35:02 <planetmaker> or what in particular do you mean? 11:35:04 <andythenorth> that means CHIPS is doing it wrong 11:35:39 <andythenorth> I found this issue recently...others are reporting it too 11:35:39 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2844/chips_pikka_tracks.png 11:35:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:35:43 <planetmaker> yexo surely knows it better than me. But iirc it's like "ground tile, station background, rail track, station foreground" 11:36:01 <andythenorth> iirc 'ground tile' has to be the magic 'track' tile 11:36:12 <planetmaker> no 11:36:29 <planetmaker> but you might want to define a building part (which is also ground) 11:36:33 <planetmaker> maybe 11:36:37 <andythenorth> I can fix the issue by making the overlays bigger - like so (mud): http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2845/chips_pikka_tracks_2.png 11:36:46 <planetmaker> but I should shut up before I talk bullshit 11:36:48 <andythenorth> but then they start to overlap default tracks http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2846/chips_pikka_tracks_3.png 11:37:00 <andythenorth> if anyone wants to do broad gauge, this is all going to fail horribly 11:37:10 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I haven't read the spec either :P 11:37:17 <andythenorth> at least, not recently enough to remember it properly 11:37:20 * drac_boy is at least doing narrow rails thankfully 11:37:29 <drac_boy> tunnel portals is one small issue I need to check yet tho 11:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: code the gravel as ground tile, not as platform? 11:39:36 <andythenorth> lets see 11:39:52 <planetmaker> oh, I thought it was laready coded as ground 11:39:57 <planetmaker> of course you'll want that 11:40:15 <planetmaker> it *is* a ground tile after all :-) 11:40:42 *** x255 [~x255@ip-92-50-69-58.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 11:46:16 <andythenorth> hmm 11:46:21 <andythenorth> hacking at it did solve it :P 11:46:33 <andythenorth> didn't /s 11:58:45 <andythenorth> hmm 11:59:00 <andythenorth> so there must be a sprite number that returns 'current railtype sprite' for each angle 12:00:03 <andythenorth> the newgrf specs make absolutely no sense to me 12:00:11 <andythenorth> they may as well be written directly in nfo, undocumented 12:00:19 * andythenorth looks for railtype code :P 12:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> station specs are always somewhat of a mystery 12:05:17 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's grass, rail overlay, station stuff 12:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why nml doesn't suppor them yet 12:05:46 <planetmaker> frosch123: but... the grass is a groud tile which can be defined by the layout? 12:06:06 <planetmaker> *ground 12:06:11 <frosch123> no, the layout must use the default rail sprite, which ottd then replaces by grass + overlay 12:06:12 <planetmaker> or is it really the grass? 12:06:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but is the rail overlay also drawn for the default rail type? 12:06:20 <planetmaker> oh, meh 12:06:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, then it draws only the original rail sprite 12:07:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: so it is the magic sprite number? (I forget the number :P ) 12:07:34 * andythenorth was reading src/ to figure it out; src makes a lot more sense than newgrf wiki for stations :/ 12:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i guess what andy needs is "draw grass" - "draw gravel" - "draw rail" - "draw platform stuff" 12:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> for old and new railtypes alike 12:08:00 <andythenorth> [me and every other station set that needs to work with railtypes] 12:08:33 <andythenorth> it's similar issue to the tram-crossings issue too 12:08:34 <frosch123> well, not possible currently, and not easily done :) 12:09:07 <andythenorth> so the answer is "don't use pikka's tracks" :P 12:10:03 <V453000> thanks for the response Eddi :) already found that yesterday, I apparently need to read more than just NML documentation :) 12:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: what response? 12:10:31 <planetmaker> Sad but true: yes, that can help. 12:10:49 <V453000> the univ railtype in nuts thread 12:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, right 12:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> question: is setting the compatible/powered rail type list "cumulative"? 12:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. if different grfs set it to different values, will one overwrite the other, or will both lists be combined? 12:12:35 <michi_cc> This is probably some kind of blasphemy, but IMNSHO the new finescale tracks look too fuzzy and bumpy. 12:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. if two track sets modify the "RAIL" railtype 12:13:03 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Yes, they are all cumulative (which the specs state) :) 12:13:28 <Eddi|zuHause> fine. one less problem to worry about :) 12:14:27 <andythenorth> michi_cc: don't tell pikka, but I might agree : 12:14:29 <andythenorth> :o 12:15:05 <andythenorth> I thought of something else wrt industry prod change on build 12:15:06 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1009857#p1009857 12:15:07 <michi_cc> They would probably look quite good a 2x zoom if they had sprites forthat. 12:15:26 <andythenorth> ^^ possible extension to spec, dunno if it's needed. Could be added later? 12:18:03 <andythenorth> basically allow cb 15F to also set 'last month production' when industry is built 12:18:43 <andythenorth> for sets using production cb for primary industry, the industry window / list might have very wrong production values during first month of play 12:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't that value default to 0? 12:22:54 <frosch123> would be stupid on map generation 12:23:37 <andythenorth> currently defaults to 8 * prod_rate[n] 12:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: those values would be filled during the "run a few ticks" phase? 12:24:05 <frosch123> we likely fail for ecs :p 12:24:09 <frosch123> *would 12:24:29 <andythenorth> it's not been a massive source of problems so far :) 12:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: since that is purely aesthetic, it would be easy to change 12:24:49 * andythenorth assumes ECS uses production cb for primary production 12:25:05 <andythenorth> [FIRS doesn't] 12:25:33 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the question is whether the industry's state is messed up when the production is called, but the date does not advance 12:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but if prod_rate the return value of cb 15E, then where is the problem? 12:26:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not sure I understand the question exactly? :) 12:26:50 <andythenorth> 15F would return prod_level 12:27:00 <Eddi|zuHause> that i meant 12:27:19 <andythenorth> prod_rate[n] for previous month is recalculated when cb 15F is called... 12:27:45 <andythenorth> but the recalculation assumes industry is not using production cb to produce cargo 12:27:58 <andythenorth> that's an unsafe assumption :P 12:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but the GRF author knows that, and take that into account? 12:28:21 <andythenorth> currently? 12:28:27 <andythenorth> grf author does nothing currently :P 12:28:28 <Eddi|zuHause> ideally :) 12:28:34 <andythenorth> nor has anyone moaned about it so far afaik 12:28:52 <andythenorth> simply running the production cb when cb15F is called is one option, but highly unsafe imho : 12:29:23 <andythenorth> production cb can do all kinds of things with storage that might not be valid during cb 15F 12:29:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand the problem. callback 15F is called exactly once for the industry. and the grf author knows whether production callback is used for his industry. 12:30:09 <andythenorth> hmm 12:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so he can simply return a "sane" value for 15F 12:30:15 <andythenorth> yes 12:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> no need for production callback 12:30:35 <andythenorth> but isn't there a proposal somewhere above to also run the production cb at game start (or on cb 15F)? 12:31:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: we might be arguing same side of the case :P 12:31:30 <andythenorth> my proposal is: if author cares about last month production, allow them to return a value for that 12:31:45 <andythenorth> they have to calculate it themselves 12:31:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i don't understand what you want to _add_ as functionality, because all use cases i already see as possible with the current implementation 12:32:14 <andythenorth> you see the case for cb15F though? 12:32:21 <andythenorth> to set prod_level? 12:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> set initial production, initialize storage, ... 12:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:33:12 <andythenorth> k 12:33:17 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but returning previous production separately makes only sense if you have a case where it should differ from current production... 12:34:34 <andythenorth> yes 12:34:36 <andythenorth> that's the case 12:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have not explained it properly yet 12:34:55 <andythenorth> current production is determined as: 12:34:57 <andythenorth> this->production_rate[0] = min(CeilDiv(indspec->production_rate[0] * this->prod_level, PRODLEVEL_DEFAULT), 0xFF); 12:35:21 <andythenorth> hmm - ignore that one :P 12:35:57 *** Jupix [~jupix@dsl-lprbrasgw1-ff11c100-110.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:37:11 <andythenorth> k here we go. I was searching src, for my new code, but I'd reverted it all :P 12:37:13 <andythenorth> i->last_month_production[0] = i->production_rate[0] * 8; 12:37:24 <andythenorth> ^ that simply doesn't hold for industries where author uses production cb 12:37:37 <andythenorth> it could be wildly wrong 12:37:50 <andythenorth> so the production in industry list would be misleading 12:38:10 <andythenorth> which will cause players to build the wrong routes 12:38:15 <andythenorth> which is annoying to them ;) 12:38:27 <andythenorth> [for the first month only] 12:38:53 <andythenorth> I don't have this case in FIRS, dunno about ECS, so might be a straw man case :P 12:39:11 *** hackalittlebit [57c463bd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:40:19 <andythenorth> can't find any FS about it 12:42:26 <andythenorth> strikes me it could be added to cb 15F later if someone *does* need it 12:44:37 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.102.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:54 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:02 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but i still understand it. what use is prod_level if you use production callback? so what prevents you from returning a "fake" production level then? 12:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> +don't 12:48:49 <andythenorth> k 12:49:12 <andythenorth> it doesn't meet the case where you vary cargo 0 and cargo 1 according to [some rules] 12:49:24 <andythenorth> but otherwise yes, I see your point and am +1 12:50:02 *** hackalittlebit [57c463bd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:51:08 <andythenorth> I'll add a comment on the thread about it 12:54:20 <andythenorth> so ignore that case. Any other cases that should be met? :) 13:03:20 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:11:41 *** x255 [~x255@ip-92-50-69-58.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:16:41 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:29 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:20:08 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has joined #openttd 13:47:46 *** Skau1 [Skau1@153.109.9.46.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 13:48:11 <Skau1> hi, question about openTTD.. are there any way to store for example oil? 13:48:45 <Skau1> like if i have a ship traveling a far distance to get oil, can i store the oil so that trains can pick it up? 13:49:01 <Alberth> oh, yes, they are called transfer orders 13:49:11 <Skau1> yeah, ive been using them 13:49:15 <Alberth> read about feeder systems at the wiki 13:49:18 <Skau1> but if it unloads to a trainstation 13:49:30 <Skau1> it will just pick it back up if there are no trains waiting 13:49:35 * Alberth nods 13:49:41 <Alberth> do 'no loading' :) 13:50:05 <Skau1> and then the oil will just stay on the track waiting for the train? 13:50:17 <Alberth> ie unloading and loading are completely separated, so you need to specify both 13:50:28 <Alberth> at the station actually, but yes 13:50:44 <Alberth> except it decays if you don't provide good enough service 13:51:52 <frosch123> someone knows the dutch furniture set? 13:51:59 <frosch123> wth are "matrix activators"? 13:52:19 <Skau1> Alberth: how so? 13:52:47 <Alberth> to prevent you from storing oil forever at the station 13:52:58 <Skau1> ah 13:53:05 <Skau1> so it just dissapears after a while? 13:53:23 <Alberth> if you don't pick it up regularly, yes 13:53:45 <frosch123> it gets slowly stolen if the rating is below 25% or so 13:53:51 <frosch123> (not sure about the exact number) 13:54:04 <Skau1> ok sweet, thanks.. i should have know to use "no unloading" .. dunno why i didnt think of that :P 13:54:33 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:54:49 <Alberth> frosch123: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrixbord ? 13:54:55 <Skau1> tbh.. airtraffic is way too easy to earn money on imo 13:55:14 <Alberth> Skau1: the map you use is too large 13:55:21 <Skau1> i cant ever lose money after ive set up like 10 planes carrying 300 people 13:55:30 <Skau1> back and forth 13:55:31 <Skau1> or 400.. 13:55:51 <Skau1> i just keep populating the two cities and keep adding more planes 13:56:11 <Alberth> original game was on 256x256, and perhaps the aircraft were smaller too 13:56:33 <Alberth> that's why the reduced speed was introduced 13:56:37 <Skau1> we're playing multiplayer on a 1024x1024 map i think 13:56:49 <Alberth> but many servers don't even enable aircraft 13:57:21 <Skau1> still, you can earn alot by just traveling from one side of the map to another 13:57:24 <Skau1> with trains 13:57:37 <Alberth> so you have 16 times as much map, so you also get 16 times as much money 13:57:59 <Alberth> (not entirely, but as an optimistic upperbound) :) 13:58:30 <Skau1> so bigger map should also use diffrent settings to balance stuff? 13:58:47 <drac_boy> Skau1 play with a relastic basecost parameters basically 13:59:09 <Skau1> we're thinking of restarting anyway because i just started playign yesterday.. so i wanted to learn stuff before we started something serious 13:59:14 <drac_boy> you'll never get away with lots of jetplanes on my games ever, unless you had more than 100 million DEM to go through first 13:59:24 <drac_boy> ;) 13:59:29 <Skau1> non of us know alot about this game 13:59:31 <Skau1> DEM? 13:59:51 <Alberth> Deutsch Mark :) 14:00:22 <planetmaker> I'd not recognize DEM as its abbreviation, tbh 14:00:27 <planetmaker> More common was "DM" 14:00:40 <planetmaker> A DEM is for me a digital elevation model :-P 14:00:46 <Alberth> :) 14:02:20 <Skau1> or.. really.. we dont have that much money 14:02:36 <Skau1> ive got 1,300,900,000 NOK now 14:02:57 <Skau1> 1GBP = 12 NOK ish 14:03:05 <Skau1> i think.. 14:03:30 <Skau1> since when you have loan your company is worht 12NOK which i think means £1 14:06:30 <Alberth> @calc 1300900000 / 12 14:06:30 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 108408333.333 14:06:45 <Alberth> it's more :) 14:07:02 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 14:07:40 <NGC3982> hm 14:07:51 <NGC3982> still no new news about how they manage to collide the trains in amsterdam? 14:08:03 <NGC3982> im qurious on how on earth it could happend in the first place. 14:10:09 <andythenorth> systems go wrong 14:10:13 <Alberth> two trains wanted to be at the same point at the world, at the same point in time 14:10:17 <NGC3982> tcms? 14:10:21 <andythenorth> not a great explanation, but a true one :P 14:10:24 <Skau1> if you have more than one depot 14:10:28 <NGC3982> looking at the pictures tells me someone tried to brake. 14:10:28 <Skau1> in your order list 14:10:36 <Skau1> will it choose the next one to maintance when needed? 14:10:42 <Skau1> if you set maintance on all 14:11:31 <NGC3982> if maintenance is due, it doesnt matter if a train depot is in the list or not 14:11:42 <NGC3982> as far as i know, the train should as usual choose the very next depot 14:11:51 <Skau1> whats the point of setting the depot in the orderlist then? 14:12:27 <NGC3982> personally, i use it to make ways for other trains on single lines. 14:12:30 <Alberth> adding a depot in the orderlist disables the train looking for a depot for servicing when it wants it 14:12:37 <NGC3982> oh 14:12:44 <NGC3982> never mind what i said, then. 14:12:53 <Skau1> so.. its kinda dumb? 14:13:24 <Alberth> depends on your playing style 14:14:35 <Alberth> if you disable breakdowns and disable servicing, yeah, you don't need depots 14:15:07 <Alberth> but imho disabling breakdowns is making it too easy :p 14:16:02 <Skau1> so breakdowns wont make it go to maintance? 14:16:09 <Skau1> if yo udont have it in orderlist 14:16:12 <Skau1> only if maintance is due 14:17:20 <drac_boy> I usually treat depots as engine/freightyards on my individual lines heh :) 14:17:22 <Skau1> omfg.. something si not workign like i want it to here.. 14:17:28 <drac_boy> might not need that so much anymore with the NewObject thing tho 14:17:57 <Alberth> Skau1: http://wiki.openttd.org/Depots#Servicing 14:18:16 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:39 <Skau1> another question.. if you use the bomb in the water.. exampble by mistake 14:19:13 <Skau1> nothing happends.. except you have to pay like close to half 0k 14:19:27 <Alberth> false 14:19:38 <Alberth> you created a bit of land, and it got flooded again 14:19:44 <Skau1> lol 14:21:35 <Skau1> are there ever any kind of "disaster" in openttd? 14:21:54 <Skau1> i remember in sim city it could either be started a war, or there was a tornado or .. floods and shit 14:21:57 <Alberth> if you have disasters enabled, yes 14:22:17 <Skau1> hmm.. i gotta tell my friend to enable it 14:22:22 <Skau1> its no fun when you play with no risk 14:22:46 <Alberth> the server owner controls such settings 14:22:55 <Skau1> yeah i know 14:23:01 <Skau1> its our server 14:27:13 <Skau1> diffrent train lights and sings are logicals etc, right? 14:27:18 <Skau1> like IF OR AND etc 14:27:34 <Skau1> are there anywhere i can se a overview explaining simply what each light means? 14:27:55 <Skau1> i dont really understand all the descriptions of each 14:29:02 <Alberth> at the wiki, at the Signals page 14:30:28 <Alberth> although the set of logical operators is not complete, as some do not serve any purpose with signals 14:33:40 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd 14:35:12 <NGC3982> http://www.nottooshabbynj.com/item_1200/Razzle-Dazzle-Vanity-Before.htm 14:35:14 <NGC3982> oops 15:01:18 <andythenorth> meh 15:01:25 * andythenorth is re-animating the FIRS cement kiln 15:11:54 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 15:25:49 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/RQCmP.png 15:26:08 <NGC3982> any way i can make orders like that be set a bit easier? 15:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> if you have to pass through the stations anyway, what sense does it make to skip the stations? 15:27:50 <NGC3982> doesnt take as much time if i skip them. 15:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest a central feeder station 15:29:02 <NGC3982> four independent trains > feeder station > big ass train between the feeder and recieving industry? 15:29:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> or road vehicles for the feeders 15:29:21 <NGC3982> i guess thats more profitable 15:54:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-117-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 15:54:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:55:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:59:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:59:58 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-41-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:07:32 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:08:10 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:10:48 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:14:09 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:17:49 <Skau1> but i never got an answer on my question .. :P if i add 2 depots to orders, will it use the next one if it has broken down? 16:18:02 <Skau1> or will this be a bad idea? 16:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Breakdowns and servicing have no direct connection. 16:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause> only an indirect one 16:19:00 <Skau1> if you add maintance to orders, it will go to that depot when it has broken down, right? 16:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause> breakdowns repair themselves. you don't have to go to depot. 16:21:35 <Alberth> it will always visit the depot afaik 16:21:58 <Alberth> but tias 16:22:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24159 /trunk/src/object_gui.cpp: -Fix: If you spent hard work on finding an available object ID, you should probably also use it instead of always 0. 16:22:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24160 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_object.cpp newgrf_object.h): -Codechange: Split parts of ObjectSpec::IsAvailable() into ObjectSpec::IsEverAvailable(). 16:22:50 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24161 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_class.h newgrf_class_func.h): -Add: Method to get a specific NewGRFClass. 16:22:57 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24162 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: Remove NewGRFClass::GetName() and SetName() in favour of using Get() and direct member access (which is needed anyway for GRF string resolving). 16:23:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24163 /trunk/src/newgrf_class.h: -Codechange: Make various members of NewGRFClass private. 16:23:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24164 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_class.h newgrf_class_func.h): -Codechange: Split parts of static NewGRFClass::Reset() into non-static ResetClass(). 16:23:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24165 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_class.h newgrf_class_func.h): -Codechange: Split parts of static NewGRFClass::Assign() into non-static Insert(). 16:23:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24166 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Turn NewGRFClass::Get(Tid, uint) and GetCount(Tid) into non-static members GetSpec(uint) and GetSpecCount(). 16:23:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24167 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: Rename NewGRFClass::GetCount() to NewGRFClass::GetClassCount() 16:23:24 <andythenorth> busy busy 16:23:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24168 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify default station class instantiation. 16:23:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24169 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Add: Make NewGRFClass distinguish between defined specs and specs visible for the user. 16:23:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24170 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_class.h newgrf_class_func.h): -Add: Methods for translating between NewGRFClass spec indices and user interface indices. 16:23:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24171 /trunk/src/ (object_gui.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Fix [FS#4967, FS#5120]: Hide object specs/classes from the GUI, if they will never be available to the user. 16:23:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24172 /trunk/src/newgrf_object.cpp: -Cleanup: Lighthouse and transmitter no longer need special treatment to not appear in the object GUI. 16:24:17 <frosch123> sorry for disturbing 16:25:15 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 16:25:55 * andythenorth ponders next industry patch 16:26:20 <andythenorth> - set a bit on the industry window text cb to hide all default text 16:26:57 <Alberth> a bit on the cb? you want to switch it on and off? 16:27:09 <andythenorth> on the return value :P 16:28:01 <Alberth> I guessed as much :p but you want to sometimes display default text and sometimes not? 16:28:14 <andythenorth> yes 16:28:43 <andythenorth> 'cargo waiting to be processed' is often meaningless 16:29:10 <Alberth> ok :) 16:29:15 <andythenorth> should just be a list of 'requires' 16:29:34 <andythenorth> but I guess newgrf should take care of that :P 16:30:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and why is a property not enough? 16:30:22 <andythenorth> could be 16:30:33 <Skau1> and is it possible to link a station to a refinery or something without placing the station close enough? 16:30:37 <andythenorth> but the cb will have to be used either wa 16:30:50 <andythenorth> ach typing whilst holding baby :P 16:31:07 <andythenorth> if the prop is set, but text cb not used: FAIL :P 16:31:14 <andythenorth> [was my thinking] 16:32:13 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-188-102-143-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Skau1: use Ctrl+Build Station to only put a small part near the industry, the other part further away 16:34:53 *** hackalittlebit [57c4519f@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:35:20 <hackalittlebit> Hello 16:35:51 <hackalittlebit> Is ingo online 16:36:02 <andythenorth> planetmaker ^ 16:36:40 <andythenorth> testing animation with FIRS is like pulling teeth due to compile time :P 16:36:47 <andythenorth> maybe I should comment out most of the grf to do this :) 16:38:45 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 16:40:45 <hackalittlebit> planetmaker what do you wan't me to do now? continue discussion in topic that michi_cc gave?(FS5147) 16:47:52 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-89-176-205-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 16:50:44 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: i think the changes in the forum thread are too radical to get started 16:50:52 <frosch123> so, i guess the fs task is more sane for now 16:51:33 <frosch123> he, andythenorth advertises the todo list in his signature :p 16:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like i missed half of the conversation 16:51:45 <andythenorth> I discussed it with pm ;) 16:52:01 <andythenorth> frosch123: I could have advertised my pony list instead :) 16:52:12 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-048-173.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:52:17 <frosch123> yeah, wondered about that 16:52:20 <andythenorth> currently my biggest pony is "is my patch good enough" :) 16:52:38 <frosch123> maybe it is a sneaky try of yours to get your pony list linked from the todo list in return :p 16:53:19 <andythenorth> it's no problem if a grf handles a cb not in stable? (the cb will never be called?) 16:53:34 <Eddi|zuHause> correct 16:53:36 <andythenorth> hmm 16:53:44 <andythenorth> I need something new in trunk that FIRS can use :P 16:53:53 <andythenorth> so that it breaks against stable :P 16:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you really don't 16:54:21 <andythenorth> no really I don't :P 16:54:35 <andythenorth> but it's more fun to have features that are 'wait until 1.3' 16:54:46 <andythenorth> or 'use a nightly' 16:55:10 <andythenorth> hmm 16:55:16 <andythenorth> this is better right? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1010189#p1010189 16:55:28 * andythenorth predicts possible forthcoming sadness :| 16:57:12 <hackalittlebit> andythenorth I see two times same picture in your post, MMMmwwhhahahahaha, Just kidding ;) 16:59:25 * FLHerne pesters andythenorth about windmills :P 17:00:41 <hackalittlebit> frosch123 Ok got it will continue in FS, Radical changes is bad, should be gradual, I would like to see some agreement on color scemes. 17:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the animation :p 17:01:47 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:75ef:f7b5:154c:b7e8] has joined #openttd 17:01:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:02:32 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: Alberth once wrote some wiki page about colours http://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_Style 17:02:36 <oskari89> Do i understand right, that current trunk allows NewObjects to have categories in placement window? 17:03:19 <frosch123> oskari89: trunk does not differ from 1.2 if you mean that 17:03:25 <oskari89> On the object gui? 17:03:35 <oskari89> Ok, just thought :P 17:04:32 <Alberth> hackalittlebit: oh, yeah I did, I never finished it properly though, so you should consider it a starting point rather than as a definitive guide 17:04:54 <oskari89> If there could be drop-down menu for subcategories, that would be nice. 17:05:04 <oskari89> For NewObjects. 17:06:12 <Alberth> there exists a list of such subcategories? 17:06:44 <andythenorth> FLHerne: what's the windmill case? 17:06:47 <oskari89> No, but i think it would be nice.. 17:07:01 <oskari89> Or is there? 17:07:24 <frosch123> as long as newgrfs categorise objects by newgrfs, there is apparently no need for categories 17:07:33 <frosch123> else they would already create more useful categories 17:09:13 <Alberth> and getting agreement on categories is quite difficult 17:09:30 <andythenorth> FLHerne: is there actually a reproducible bug with the windmill? You do keep mentioning it :/ 17:09:58 <Mazur> Yes, some birds keep fluing into it. 17:10:01 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:10:03 <Mazur> flying, too. 17:10:09 <FLHerne> Yes :P 17:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it may be a chicken-egg-problem 17:10:26 <andythenorth> FLHerne: have you made a bug report to forums or FIRS issue tracker? 17:10:35 <andythenorth> what's the bug? 17:11:01 <FLHerne> I almost did, but you said you'd just close it :D 17:11:17 <FLHerne> I'll post it on the forum :P 17:11:37 <andythenorth> is it the flapping when zoomed out? 17:11:56 <andythenorth> if so, it's an openttd bug and you should post it to flyspray 17:12:40 <andythenorth> you can mention that the oil well also does it 17:13:02 <hackalittlebit> alberth I need to study it. I have to admit that subcategories also crossed my mind. But as frosch said we have to start at the beginning 17:13:32 <andythenorth> hmm 17:13:40 <andythenorth> so why do sprites bounce in the zoomed out view? 17:13:49 <andythenorth> they have the same size bounding box in newgrf 17:14:31 <FLHerne> andythenorth: If it's the pixel halving, you could do separate sprites for each zoomlevel now :P 17:14:34 <andythenorth> but the cases are animated tiles, where sprites for some frames will have different heights to others (once masked) 17:14:52 <andythenorth> FLHerne: yeah, that's *definitely* going to happen :P 17:15:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/objects.png <- i doubt there is actually the interest in categorising them useful 17:15:43 <frosch123> that image shows all objects of which i know, half of the categories include the grf name 17:16:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: disable cropping by grfcodec/nml 17:16:58 <frosch123> so that all sprites have the same size 17:17:01 <frosch123> and offsets 17:17:26 <FLHerne> Forum bug report for you anythenorth :P : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41607&p=1010200#p1010200 17:18:28 <andythenorth> frosch123: presumably that increases filesize? But not much, as it's mostly blue? 17:18:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: only disable cropping for the animated sprites :) 17:18:53 <andythenorth> hmm 17:19:02 * andythenorth to nml specs 17:19:10 <andythenorth> unless anyone can tell me now how to do it? :) 17:19:28 <frosch123> in nfo32 you need to add "nocrop" or so :p 17:20:00 <frosch123> it's "NOCROP" in nml as well :) 17:20:01 *** hackalittlebit [57c4519f@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 17:22:29 <andythenorth> my nml doesn't like NOCROP 17:22:30 <andythenorth> :P 17:22:35 <andythenorth> ach I'll figure it out 17:22:49 <frosch123> the docu says you have to put it in front of the filename 17:23:02 <andythenorth> tmpl_building_sprite_filename( 10, 200, 82, -52, NOCROP, "sprites/graphics/industries/grainmill.png") 17:23:36 <andythenorth> I guess I have to do it in the template 17:23:43 <andythenorth> biab 17:23:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:27:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:27:25 <andythenorth> ach 17:27:27 <andythenorth> screw that :P 17:27:33 <andythenorth> I'd have to change every industry in FIRS 17:28:13 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Do, then :P 17:28:50 * FLHerne supports disproportionate complication :D 17:30:12 <andythenorth> hmm 17:30:17 <andythenorth> makes no difference to filesize 17:30:27 <andythenorth> frosch123 / Rubidium does using NOCROP on sprites do any harm? 17:30:49 <frosch123> why should it? 17:30:53 <andythenorth> I've just applied it to every building sprite in FIRS 17:31:01 <andythenorth> I assumed it was an optimisation of some sort 17:31:08 <andythenorth> (to use CROP) 17:31:08 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:31:25 <frosch123> if it makes no different on filesize at all, then it either does not work, or all sprites were already cropped :p 17:31:46 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:05 <andythenorth> 34050 bytes difference 17:33:08 <andythenorth> so some 17:33:15 <andythenorth> on a ~1MB grf 17:33:27 <andythenorth> @calc 34 / 1024 17:33:27 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.033203125 17:33:38 <andythenorth> still 3% 17:33:51 <andythenorth> it does fix the windmill, but not the oil well 17:33:58 <frosch123> well, most bytes in a grf are the pseudo sprites, which are uncompressed 17:34:12 <frosch123> usually the images themself are the minority :p 17:34:13 <andythenorth> I'm committing it 17:34:34 <frosch123> does it actually fix your issue with zooming? 17:34:44 <andythenorth> for the windmill yes 17:34:53 <andythenorth> for oil wells (uses base set sprites), no 17:36:27 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1313 17:36:27 *** Guest1313 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:27 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:36:27 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 17:36:51 <andythenorth> FLHerne: it's done 17:37:12 <andythenorth> object lesson in 'squeaky wheel gets the oil' :/ 17:37:31 <frosch123> hmm, maybe we can change the zooming to be relative to the offset point, instead of top-left corner 17:37:51 <frosch123> michi_cc: ^^ what do you think? 17:38:01 <andythenorth> wouldn't always solve the case I bet 17:38:16 <andythenorth> odd / even values for height width would still jitter 17:38:16 <frosch123> it would make it independent from croppping 17:38:34 <andythenorth> really? 17:38:44 <andythenorth> frame 1 height = 10 17:38:48 <andythenorth> frame 2 height = 11 17:38:59 <andythenorth> won't that cause jitter? 17:39:01 <andythenorth> nvm if not 17:40:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24173 /trunk/src/lang/ (afrikaans.txt latvian.txt): 17:40:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:40:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 39 changes by telanus 17:40:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 16 changes by Parastais 17:41:08 * FLHerne looks for other things to nag andythenorth about :P 17:41:51 <andythenorth> nag andythenorth that industries don't randomise production amount when built 17:42:14 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/855 17:48:28 <michi_cc> frosch123: No problem if you implement it :p 17:50:36 * andythenorth wonders why production cb is used for black hole industries 17:52:02 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 18:03:12 <NGC3982> wat 18:03:15 <andythenorth> Pony request 18:03:16 <NGC3982> black hole industries? 18:03:41 <andythenorth> Pony: allow industry to overbuild houses *without* using one of the (unpopular) special flags 18:04:48 <andythenorth> serious request for town-based industry :) 18:05:26 <NGC3982> i have a suggestion on a grf. 18:05:38 <NGC3982> that i just started thinking about 18:05:42 <andythenorth> the two special flags for 'can overbuild houses' are considered limiting as they attach other conditions 18:05:52 <NGC3982> a full chemical grf, with rare earth elements and nuclear/chemical industries 18:05:56 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:58 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 18:06:13 <NGC3982> and you need special trains and special carts for radioactive elements and such. 18:06:17 <NGC3982> \o/ 18:06:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if I propose extending a cb, will you point out that it should be a prop? :) 18:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly :p 18:07:52 * andythenorth proposes adding a bit to result of cb28 or cb2f that allows overbuilding of houses (off by default) 18:08:23 <andythenorth> I think I know where in industry_cmd.cpp it could be used, will have a look once the toddler is asleep :) 18:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean with "allow"? 18:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> there are already industries which overbuild houses 18:08:39 <andythenorth> I mean 'permits overbuilding of houses' 18:08:40 <Alberth> NGC3982: great, one cargo of nuclear material every decade, driving at walking speed to the power plant 18:09:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: see lines further up ;) 18:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't explain anything 18:09:53 <andythenorth> I can't remember the objections, they weren't mine 18:10:10 <andythenorth> but the distance / population limits on the existing flags are considered harmful 18:10:27 <andythenorth> and also they're considered cheating, real men write callback handlers 18:10:33 <andythenorth> :P 18:10:57 <andythenorth> I could be persuaded they're fine, but I wasn't allowed to close FIRS tickets referencing this issue 18:11:05 <andythenorth> and I'm sick of having so many FIRS tickets open 18:12:32 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2963 18:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> again: which of the flags do what, and which of these effects do you want to circumvent? 18:12:42 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3046 18:13:15 <andythenorth> this I think was the main objection: 18:13:16 <andythenorth> "planetmaker: because simply somthing 15 tiles from the centre in 1900 is nicely at the edge. But in 2050 it's in the financial district with high-rise. And it just doesn't fit and is annoying to connect when I have to slash through 30 tiles of town and even make space for a station" 18:14:31 <andythenorth> that's the result of special flag bit 5 18:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Special_industry_flags_to_define_special_behavior_.281A.29 18:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> suggests that you should use bit 4 instead 18:16:49 <andythenorth> bit 4 is too restrictive wrt distance iirc 18:17:10 <andythenorth> hm 18:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not according to this documentation 18:17:18 <andythenorth> let's check what's actually used 18:17:19 <Eddi|zuHause> bit 5 has the distance restriction, bit 4 not 18:17:27 <frosch123> bit 4 must replace houses, while bit 5 can 18:18:29 <frosch123> if you want a custom distance check, cb28 has the townzone available 18:18:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is a too hard restriction 18:20:10 <andythenorth> ach...I'll read the source in a bit 18:20:24 <andythenorth> I don't really care either way 18:20:33 <andythenorth> but the issue won't go away 18:23:09 <andythenorth> ok 18:23:29 <andythenorth> so using bit 4, it's harder to place industries, because they *must* replace houses 18:23:40 <andythenorth> and using bit 5 industries are pegged to 15 tiles or so of the town sign 18:24:07 <andythenorth> neither is really satisfactory 18:27:25 <andythenorth> also... biab, no battery :P 18:27:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:33:58 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:43:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:54:38 *** Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-177-137.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 18:58:46 <NGC3982> Alberth: yes! 19:00:25 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 19:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why do you have to reboot when the battery is low? 19:11:22 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.95.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:26 <frosch123> he does not reboot, he buys a new machine 19:17:14 <andythenorth> mostly I have to shut the lid :P 19:17:56 <andythenorth> although, yes, sometimes I just put the old one in the bin and buy a new one with 100% charge ;) 19:17:57 <andythenorth> 19:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... 19:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> why does kate's responsivenes decay so much with more than a dozen files open? 19:19:37 <andythenorth> because you haven't patched it to be better? :o 19:20:01 <andythenorth> the benefit of a closed source OS - no obligation to fix it :P 19:22:51 <andythenorth> hmm 19:23:10 <andythenorth> so wrt industry overbuilding houses...is the conclusion "get over it, it's a non-problem" ? 19:24:25 <supermop> eminent domain 19:24:45 <supermop> that or the industry ran off the homeowners with hired thugs 19:25:08 <andythenorth> not the answer I was looking for, but thanks ;) 19:25:45 <supermop> basically: i don't think it is a problem whether you want to look at it from gameplay side or realism side 19:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it's a matter of "how much is it really hurting"? you could a) live with the fact that it ends up in the town center. b) live with the fact that it may not appear outside of the town, c) implement a custom population check like ECS, and live with the fact that you cannot overbuild houses, or d) implement a new industry flag that says "may overbuild houses" 19:29:28 <andythenorth> I like a or d 19:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd prefer "b" though 19:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or "c" 19:30:10 <andythenorth> actually b is better. andythenorth needs to read more carefully :P 19:30:23 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, why do you need to overbuild houses? 19:30:23 <andythenorth> I've just changed one of the industries from a to b 19:30:59 <andythenorth> no overbuilding = no industries placed in town 19:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the construction callback may check for houses within 3 tile radius or something 19:32:37 <andythenorth> I don't want to require over-building houses 19:32:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then it will almost always be in the outskirts of towns 19:32:56 <andythenorth> fails the case where industry needs to be built in town 19:32:59 <andythenorth> hmm 19:33:16 <andythenorth> I could duplicate industry, same industry twice, different IDs, different placement rules 19:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that'll cause all kinds of weird effects 19:34:10 <andythenorth> I feel like I'm not putting the case 19:34:36 <andythenorth> I need to overbuild houses, because there's insanely high probability that there are houses on the tiles where the industry needs to be 19:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> why? 19:34:58 <andythenorth> because towns have very few gaps 19:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> there's almost always empty tiles outside the town 19:35:16 <andythenorth> yes 19:35:20 <andythenorth> but that's outside town 19:35:44 <andythenorth> these industries need to build inside town 19:35:54 <Eddi|zuHause> builder's yard: no overbuilding, must have house nearby. shop/hotel: always require overbuilding 19:36:11 <andythenorth> I'm not arguing ;) 19:36:18 <andythenorth> you had me at (b) above :P 19:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and what is this then? <andythenorth> I don't want to require over-building houses 19:36:48 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like arguing to me :) 19:37:25 <andythenorth> I'd rather it was optional to overbuild, rather than required, but if it avoids need for a patch... 19:37:46 <andythenorth> ...means I can close some tickets as 'no change' 19:40:06 <andythenorth> I'm just going to double-check industry_cmd.cpp to be sure there are no distance checks lurking 19:40:20 <andythenorth> sometimes in the past the specs lied wrt industry_cmd.cpp ;) 19:51:02 *** tom47407-73129 [5aca6128@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:45 *** tom47407-73129 [5aca6128@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:52:52 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has left #openttd [] 20:01:32 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:03:53 <andythenorth> so builders yards replacing houses seems...inverted :) 20:03:54 *** morph` [~morph`@78.84.121.50] has joined #openttd 20:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. 20:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ECS has some construction checks that you must have X population nearby. maybe can reuse those 20:09:12 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:10:12 <andythenorth> for the builders yard, I'm going to try your suggestion of checking neighbouring tiles for houses 20:10:20 <andythenorth> should be adequate 20:11:41 <andythenorth> house within 5 tiles or so 20:11:51 <andythenorth> might be an expensive check, I'll have to walk in all directions :P 20:12:39 <andythenorth> might be wiser to check the town zone, but I never got my brain to understand town zone 20:13:02 <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/TownZones 20:13:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, town zone sounds right 20:13:35 <andythenorth> zone 0 seems plausible 20:15:17 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:16:40 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:17:50 <andythenorth> good night 20:17:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:21:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19321.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:59 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:22 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:32:44 <andythenorth> how to adapt this to use town_zone var? 20:32:46 <andythenorth> CHECK_TOWN_DISTANCE (town_distance, 0, 64, return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_ALLOW) 20:33:42 <andythenorth> I can't find CHECK_TOWN_DISTANCE in nml specs 20:33:44 <Eddi|zuHause> replace the whole thing with "town_zone"? 20:34:25 <andythenorth> sounds plausible 20:35:03 <andythenorth> CHECK_TOWN_DISTANCE must be a cpp macro 20:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> needs parameters (x,y) relative to northern corner of indutry 20:35:08 <andythenorth> I hate that they look like functions 20:35:21 <andythenorth> yeah, I can write the nml switch fine :) 20:35:43 <andythenorth> I just don't know how FIRS magical codebase works :P 20:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, CHECK_TOWN_DISTANCE looks like a cpp macro 20:36:06 * andythenorth greps project :P 20:36:21 <andythenorth> documented cpp macro 20:36:24 <andythenorth> all is well 20:36:36 <andythenorth> cpp does not mix well with nml 20:36:51 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 20:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> prefix all macros with MACRO_? 20:37:01 <andythenorth> maybe :P 20:37:14 <andythenorth> it's totally unreadable, because nml also uses ALL_CAPS_CONSTANTS 20:37:20 <andythenorth> which are valid and useful in lots of places 20:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but they won't have function-like syntax :) 20:37:49 <andythenorth> well yes 20:38:22 * andythenorth grumbles and goes back to code 20:38:35 <frosch123> night 20:38:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0099bb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:49 <andythenorth> ach, too slow again :| 20:40:26 <andythenorth> gah, I need to pass a variable-length list as parameter option to CPP 20:40:33 <andythenorth> this is a really appalling language :P 20:42:36 <andythenorth> defeated 20:42:42 * andythenorth -> bed :) 20:42:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:49:02 <Terkhen> good night 20:57:47 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:04 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:05:07 *** Thomas_ [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:05:37 *** Thomas 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[~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has quit [] 21:15:20 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:16:40 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:16:43 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has quit [] 21:17:05 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:17:59 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:18:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:18:22 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has quit [] 21:18:37 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has joined #openttd 21:23:16 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:24:38 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 21:26:53 *** Thomas [~Thomas@095160200229.wroclaw.vectranet.pl] has quit 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:07:22 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:22:15 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-94-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:48 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable085.125-161-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:30:50 <drac_boy> hi 23:46:18 <Skau1> what is deciding if production is higher or lower? 23:46:32 <Skau1> is there something that can be done to get higher coal productions etc? 23:51:31 *** Firartix [~artixds@161.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]