Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:12 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:01:37 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-230.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:07:47 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:29:10 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:34:34 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:55:04 <michi_cc> orudge: The forum server seems to live in the future, I already got the backup message *before* 1:00 UTC ;) 01:06:09 <Mazur> It's only 3:11. 01:17:12 <supermop> hi all, 01:17:47 <supermop> whats the best way to create 1x zoom sprites from hand-drawn 4x zoom? 01:17:54 <supermop> just rescale in PS? 01:19:21 <V453000> re-draw I ould say 01:19:25 <V453000> would 01:21:38 <supermop> ok 01:21:55 <supermop> am thinking of antialiasing, then retracing 01:22:32 <supermop> maybe producing 2x zoom first, then 1x would help 01:22:46 <supermop> as it won't be as big of a change 01:23:19 <supermop> scale 50%, redraw for smaller size, scale 50% again, redraw 01:23:31 <supermop> very tedious though 01:24:00 <supermop> I could also just make different sources 01:24:16 <supermop> current ive drawn all rail sprites in false color at 4x 01:24:28 <supermop> and am recoloring per railtype 01:25:58 <supermop> i.e. color the currently orange ties brown for wood, grey for concrete, color green rails red-brown, dark grey, or light grey 01:26:54 <supermop> I could have another layer with the same thingss drawn either smaller, or chunkier 01:27:16 <V453000> which newgrf? 01:27:24 <supermop> monorail is still a tricck, but i think i have a workaround 01:27:29 <supermop> I am making a new one 01:27:47 <V453000> well yeah but what sort ... trains? 01:28:36 <supermop> for ages i've wanted someone to code MLSD to be railtype aware, so that i could use each rail type to in a given set to implement a different depot style 01:29:00 <supermop> no one ever did, so now I am trying to make my own rail grf 01:29:09 <V453000> oh, rails 01:29:27 <V453000> hm rescale might work there fairly well I guess 01:29:29 <V453000> hard to say really 01:29:33 <supermop> so that i can provide different railtypes to give different depots 01:29:43 <supermop> the rails blur out 01:29:55 <supermop> anyway 01:30:13 <supermop> im doing opposite of fine scale - they are a bit wider than normal 01:30:20 <supermop> and they are ugly 01:30:28 <supermop> so n one will likely use the grf 01:31:12 <supermop> hopefully someone will put it over a popular rail grf somehow 01:31:53 <supermop> anyway here is the thing with monorail though 01:32:25 <supermop> at 1x zoom its just a fat white line, but at 4x, the beam has real height 01:32:31 <supermop> but rails are flat 01:33:21 <supermop> which means that if you draw it to give it the illusion of depth like in TTD, it will either look bad on corners, or bad on straights 01:33:39 <V453000> idk :) I find drawing in EZ pointless tbh 01:34:07 <V453000> but even if you do that, I would personally recommend to focus on the 1x the most 01:34:57 <supermop> so i am thinking of making the beam actually have height - and fake it with caternary 01:35:40 <supermop> ie have monorail have a custom caternary, with the sprite drawn and positioned as the monorail beam 01:35:56 <supermop> hmm yeah most people play at 1x most of the time anyway 01:40:43 <supermop> actually redrawing at 2x isn't bad 01:41:28 <supermop> if i make 2x look good then i can probably scale to 1x from there without it looking muddy 01:41:38 <supermop> maybe even repeat for .5x 01:42:17 <V453000> I think it is a lot different between 4x->2x and 2x->1x but not sure, never done that 01:43:08 <supermop> well with thin rails as is the fashion, 01:43:35 <supermop> going straight from 4 to 1 you can lose place of where the rails actually go 01:43:55 <supermop> at 2 you still have some remininds 01:44:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:44:35 <supermop> so touch those up so that something carries through to 1x 01:44:51 <supermop> going from 4 to 1 only 1 pixel in 16 survives 01:45:04 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.23.92.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:04 <supermop> unless you use aa, inwhich case its all a blur 01:45:55 <supermop> going from 4 to 2 and 2 to 1, its 1 in 4, and if rails are 2px wide, those are good odds 01:56:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DA1C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:01:16 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.23.92.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 02:02:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6DDD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:39 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:e815:a37c:b12b:8d6] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:42:42 <rails> all the hilights 02:58:03 <supermop> haha 02:58:05 <supermop> sorrry 03:35:28 <supermop> hmmm i guess i should add layers to my false color template for NG, 3rd rail, etc 03:58:59 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-04.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:18:00 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 04:39:51 *** supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-250-2-219.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 04:46:46 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 04:50:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC671FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:50:35 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66FFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:51:13 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.23.92.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:12 *** Ryton [~Ryton@94-226-98-24.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 05:20:31 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 05:24:37 *** Ryton [~Ryton@94-226-98-24.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:48 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:31:18 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:39:41 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04965.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:01 *** magosi [~mathew@CPE602ad087577e-CM602ad087577b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #openttd [] 06:17:14 *** magosi [~mathew@CPE602ad087577e-CM602ad087577b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 06:17:27 *** magosi [~mathew@CPE602ad087577e-CM602ad087577b.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #openttd [] 06:59:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:59:45 <andythenorth> hello 06:59:48 <andythenorth> and goodbye 07:00:02 * andythenorth goes to toil honestly at the coalface of python, and mostly jquery 07:00:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 07:10:14 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 07:12:42 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:15:14 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 07:17:46 *** namad8 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 322+7*92 07:21:04 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 966 07:23:10 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:23:45 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1901-7*92 07:24:01 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 1257 07:26:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7036.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:41:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 07:41:33 <Wolf01> hello 07:43:31 *** Volley [~worf@chello080109200187.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 07:44:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:26 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:53:25 <Terkhen> good morning 08:00:03 <__ln__> qapla' 08:00:34 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 08:03:07 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 08:05:38 *** julien0 [~quassel@88-190-15-59.rev.dedibox.fr] has joined #openttd 08:07:09 <julien0> Hi, I've just started hacking around NoGo and I have some questions 08:07:10 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-230.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:07:36 <Terkhen> hi julien0 08:07:46 <Terkhen> Don't ask to ask, just ask :) 08:08:25 <julien0> The goal is to use it as an assistant (watch if lines are ok, add/remove vehicles depending on station loading, ...) 08:09:21 <julien0> to communicate with script, I've added an API to add commands to interactive console 08:09:33 <julien0> so far it seem to work, I will make a patch soon 08:10:59 <julien0> but I have seen that most standard Squirrel functions are not available (getroottable, newthread, regexp, ...) why ? 08:11:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:11:44 <julien0> I understand that I/O functions can cause security problems, but most of the rest of API seem safe 08:11:48 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:08 <__ln__> first very well written english, but then a questionmark preceded by space. not completely unexpected though. 08:13:09 <julien0> French typographic rules :) 08:13:11 <Eddi|zuHause> julien0: most internal functions have been disabled for performance reasons. you need a way to count the "operations" a script is doing, to prevent it from using too much CPU 08:13:40 <__ln__> julien0: yeah, i know, but they don't apply to english. :) 08:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> julien0: people have been making openttd hang by a simple sort() call 08:16:13 <julien0> ok, I've not thought abou that one 08:19:10 <Terkhen> if you think that something is missing from the API, you can always file a feature request 08:19:15 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-196-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 08:19:32 <Terkhen> IIRC we already had some inclusions from such suggestions 08:19:43 <Terkhen> of course, it is a lot better if the suggestion comes as a patch :P 08:21:02 <julien0> sure, I think that coroutine could allow some cool things, and I don't think that it is CPU intensive. 08:21:47 <Terkhen> OpenTTD is not very thread friendly 08:22:29 <Terkhen> I don't know how OpenTTD handles Squirrel execution (scripts are not my forte) but probably it would lead to desyncs 08:22:48 <julien0> yes but coroutines are not parallel threads, it's just multiple stacks of execution 08:23:35 <Terkhen> as long as they don't introduce a non-deterministic order of execution, they should be okay 08:23:57 <julien0> there is only one control flow, and couroutines tranfer control with resume/yield 08:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> coroutine is what "yield" is in python? 08:24:59 <julien0> Eddi|zuHause: more or less. IIRC the python yield is a "generator", coroutines are a bit more powerful 08:25:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A18B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:31:37 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:31:38 <SpComb> julien0: python's generators support .send(...) 08:31:48 <SpComb> julien0: i.e. `foo = yield bar` 08:32:03 <SpComb> so they're kinda like coroutines 08:32:21 <SpComb> in a limited sense, in that you can hack them to do some similar things :) 08:33:16 <SpComb> you just have to keep the control flow explicit, vs with coroutines any innocent-looking line of code could resume/yield 08:33:30 <SpComb> giving you the same issues with mutable shared state that you have with threading.. 08:34:29 <julien0> SpComb: ok, I didn't used Python generators so munch, I'm more used to Lua coroutines (I think that Squirrel ones are similar) 08:34:54 <SpComb> python has real coroutines as well, in the form of stackless/greenlets 08:35:19 <SpComb> but uh, I guess this is off-topic, Python wouldn't really be the right choice for embedding into OpenTTD anyways 08:36:04 <julien0> Yes, with couroutines you are only sure that two concurrent threads will not write the same data at same time but a hidden yield can be harmful 08:38:07 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-99-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:38:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:42:34 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-68-29.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:56:17 *** Ryton [~Ryton@109.132.108.168] has joined #openttd 09:01:15 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 09:07:04 <NGC3982> bah. 09:07:19 <NGC3982> i cant seem to get the gnome font right. 09:07:30 <NGC3982> when i start changing it, it turns into poop. 09:10:55 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:12:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:17:41 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A18B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:31 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:30:10 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:31:38 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:35:01 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 10:07:03 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:55 *** Ryton [~Ryton@109.132.108.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:25 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:35:48 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:40:43 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 10:40:49 *** Ryton [~Ryton@109.132.108.168] has joined #openttd 10:46:17 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 10:47:17 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 11:01:35 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:08:54 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:12:24 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 11:17:56 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:25:54 *** Freudian [~Freudian@host-2-97-193-17.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 11:31:03 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:35 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:39:09 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:48:16 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:37 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D58.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 12:03:50 *** Ryton [~Ryton@109.132.108.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:59 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:03 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:10:20 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:27 <NGC3982> what has happend here? 12:41:35 <NGC3982> no activity? 12:41:40 <NGC3982> for god sake, wake up you swabs! 12:42:08 * MNIM thwacks NGC3982 on the head 12:42:10 <MNIM> shhhhhh. 12:42:16 <MNIM> don't wake the dogs 12:43:18 <NGC3982> ;_; 12:44:01 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:07 <Zuu> Yea, very quiet today. 12:47:42 <Zuu> I don't know if more countries have holliday today. 12:48:30 <NGC3982> most of europe celebrate 'may day' 12:49:06 <Zuu> According to wikipedia 80 countries have it as national holiday. 12:49:28 <NGC3982> oh, 80? 12:49:29 <NGC3982> neat. 12:49:42 <NGC3982> the swedish article needs to be updated. it stated that number as "many" :3 12:49:45 <Zuu> actually "more than 80" 12:50:38 <__ln__> one, two, three, many 12:51:40 * Zuu likes the "a pair" count. In some regions it really means two, while in others it could be up to 7 items or so. 12:52:28 <Zuu> and in some contexts, it is just one item :-) 12:55:04 <frosch123> Zuu: in german it depends on the capitalisation :p 12:55:12 <frosch123> "Paar" is two, "paar" is a few 12:56:00 <Zuu> Interesting 12:56:18 <frosch123> though argueably capitalisation is hard to pronounce :p 12:56:46 <NGC3982> http://www.flickr.com/photos/appemobile/6985643850/in/photostream 12:57:26 <NGC3982> Zuu: i read a paper on boson 3-sigma experiments at CERN, where they collided "a pair" of protons. 12:58:17 <NGC3982> about 3-4 millon per bunch, that is. 13:00:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> May day is for the nubs 13:00:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> still being drunk after queensday is the key 13:01:33 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:02:27 <NGC3982> queensday? 13:02:29 <NGC3982> sounds british. 13:04:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> nah dutch 13:05:08 <frosch123> yay, turned of the opengl renderer of widelands, now it works much better 13:05:12 <frosch123> *off 13:05:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koninginnedag 13:05:43 <frosch123> somehow opengl interlocks my whole machine into a single core thingie 13:05:47 <Freudian> Hi 13:16:56 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-32-182.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 13:21:24 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-9-230.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:21:59 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 13:23:49 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:24:22 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 13:27:46 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:35 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:38:59 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.] 13:41:15 *** robotboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:46:06 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:46:19 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@059-057-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 13:56:52 *** hackalittlebit [57c42f4d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 13:58:04 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 13:59:22 <hackalittlebit> STR_FILE_MENU_LOAD_GAME appears only in language files. Is that correct? 14:02:44 <frosch123> my grep says the same :) 14:03:12 <hackalittlebit> and other question, in game options ; option "Road Vehicles" " drive on right side" or " drive on lLeft side" is that for trains also? 14:03:30 <frosch123> partly 14:03:36 <frosch123> depends on the signal side setting 14:03:44 <hackalittlebit> for signals 14:04:03 <frosch123> the signal side setting is entirely stupid, it allows to choose between "always on left" and "on driving side" 14:04:14 <frosch123> i.e. you cannot drive on left and have the signal right :p 14:04:50 <hackalittlebit> I will look into it :) 14:05:20 <frosch123> that string was added between 0.7 and 1.0 14:05:27 <frosch123> but is not used in 1.0 either 14:06:11 <frosch123> ah, though maybe it was only renamed in 1.0 14:09:29 <frosch123> STR_015D_LOAD_GAME was already unused in 0.3.5 14:10:28 <frosch123> oh, silly me 14:10:36 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: the string is used 14:10:55 <frosch123> the strings in a classic dropdown follow consecutively 14:11:06 <frosch123> thus only the first one (STR_FILE_MENU_SAVE_GAME) is referenced in the code 14:11:35 <NGC3982> speaking of 14:11:54 <NGC3982> is there any reason to ever use other string names then "STR_*"? 14:11:57 <peter1138> trains don't drive on a side 14:12:05 <__ln__> NGC3982: *than 14:12:35 <NGC3982> __ln__: thank you. 14:12:45 <NGC3982> it seems like your previous corrections of the same word didnt really help. 14:12:53 <NGC3982> :( 14:12:55 <__ln__> you're welcome 14:13:01 <__ln__> *didn't 14:14:01 <NGC3982> for some reason, all these years on the internet still havent blessed me with adequate english. 14:15:46 <hackalittlebit> peter1138:could it be seperated for cars and trains, here in portugal cars on the right and trains on the left 14:16:02 <peter1138> hackalittlebit, train drive in the middle of a tile, they don't have a side 14:16:35 <hackalittlebit> I mean signals 14:21:24 <peter1138> i suppose it could 14:22:26 <hackalittlebit> so for now the string in the "option menu" should be "cars and signal" "on the right" or "on the left" 14:24:06 <peter1138> no 14:26:11 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:28:16 <frosch123> hackalittlebit: likely the best option is to make the signal side setting a three way setting: left, driving side, right 14:30:50 <frosch123> well, actually let's just do that 14:30:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:31:55 <NGC3982> in a system with low powered engines. is more and shorter trains preferable in terms of economy? 14:32:20 <NGC3982> the running cost is negligible 14:34:48 <hackalittlebit> don't know what's happening but I can not change that setting anymore inside the game :( 14:35:18 <frosch123> road vehicle side can only be changed as long as there are no roadvehicles on the map 14:35:26 <frosch123> well, and only singleplayer of course 14:36:28 <hackalittlebit> do new map, build car, still possible, drive car not possible anymore. 14:36:50 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:37:10 <frosch123> ah, so it is enough if they are in depot :) 14:37:29 <hackalittlebit> not after you drove 14:37:37 <frosch123> anyway, that is the reason why the driving side belongs into the mapgen settings 14:37:48 <hackalittlebit> should be possible if inside depot 14:38:13 <hackalittlebit> no not good idear 14:38:40 <hackalittlebit> should only be possible before game starts 14:39:02 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:39:03 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has quit [] 14:39:06 *** dotwaffle [~dotwaffle@on6.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:39:17 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:40:11 <andythenorth> hello 14:45:17 <hackalittlebit> hello 14:45:44 <hackalittlebit> frosch123: I'll implement your proposal. 14:45:56 <hackalittlebit> for now 14:46:07 <frosch123> i am already doing it 14:46:35 <frosch123> just need to figure out how to cause minimum hassle for the conversion of openttd.cfg 14:46:44 <hackalittlebit> tnks 14:47:17 <hackalittlebit> have to go 14:47:52 *** hackalittlebit [57c42f4d@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:03:01 *** lorem_ipsum [~lorem_ips@lore.xmw.de] has joined #openttd 15:03:17 <lorem_ipsum> hi 15:03:53 <lorem_ipsum> is there a way to set the revision manually for the configure script? 15:05:29 <lorem_ipsum> --revision worked earlier, but not anymore 15:07:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24191 /trunk/src/table/settings.ini: -Fix: If you consider a settings to potentially cause desyncs via NewGRFs and thus disallow changing it in network games, you should probably also sync it to clients. 15:08:37 <frosch123> lorem_ipsum: no, there was a major incident with that setting, it it was doomed for all times 15:10:16 <lorem_ipsum> is there an other way to set the revision? Like an environment variable 15:15:13 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:15:39 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has left #openttd [QUIT :Leaving.] 15:16:39 <Rubidium> lorem_ipsum: wanting to override the revision means you want to do something that you shouldn't be doing 15:17:09 <lorem_ipsum> i'm trying to build a gentoo ebuild for openttd nightly 15:17:32 <lorem_ipsum> The problem is the build system makes an svn checkout and copies the content (without .svn) to a workdir 15:17:35 <Rubidium> previous results have shown that the majority think they are doing it 'right', but they're simply not 15:17:55 <lorem_ipsum> so the information is lost in that process 15:18:35 <lorem_ipsum> i just wanted to check if there's a solution which doesn't require copying the .svn as well 15:19:00 <Rubidium> if you want nightlies, then download the tarball from the website 15:19:25 <Rubidium> instead of using subversion, as then it's quite likely you're not getting a nightly but some other trunk revision 15:21:39 <lorem_ipsum> correcting nightly to latest 15:22:08 <lorem_ipsum> but the nightly should work 15:22:11 <Rubidium> though doesn't emerging a new version require a new ebuild (one with a different name) 15:23:02 <lorem_ipsum> i want a 9999 ebuild always fetching the latest revision and building it 15:23:43 <Rubidium> what's so hard about svn up && make ? 15:23:57 <lorem_ipsum> see above 15:23:58 <supermop> I have a rail sprite question: 15:24:00 <Rubidium> to me it seems a bit bureaucratic 15:24:11 <supermop> there is a separate sprite for x junction 15:24:29 <supermop> can i also provide special sprites for Y junctions? 15:24:34 <lorem_ipsum> portage removes the .svn and i wanted to check if it works without addintion copying of the .svn 15:24:51 <lorem_ipsum> s/addintion/additional 15:25:00 <Rubidium> no 15:25:19 <supermop> Rubidium: that no to me? 15:25:31 <Rubidium> (unless being pedantic, then yes as one could use git or mercurial) 15:25:34 <lorem_ipsum> i guess he means me :-) 15:25:37 <supermop> ah ok 15:25:44 <lorem_ipsum> would be the same there 15:26:06 <lorem_ipsum> so i'm just copying the .svn as well 15:26:19 <lorem_ipsum> thanks 15:26:21 <supermop> also; can rail tiles have CC, and if not, can caternary have CC? 15:27:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24192 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix [FS#5153-ish]: Also use default value when reading an invalid integer setting value. 15:29:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24193 /trunk/src/settings.cpp: -Fix (r24191): Also update comments accordingly. 15:29:52 <frosch123> supermop: depos and fences can have cc 15:29:56 <frosch123> i guess the rest cannot 15:30:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:23 <supermop> guess not, or know not? 15:30:43 <supermop> I can at least have custom caternary sprites per rail type though? 15:30:44 <frosch123> i know for depots and fences, not for the rest :) 15:30:57 <frosch123> catenary is per railtype, yes 15:31:04 <supermop> ok, 15:31:32 <supermop> so I could postion and draw a 3rd rail with cover as a caternary? or is that a bad idea? 15:31:40 <frosch123> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#cargo-type <- the stuff in that table is per railtype 15:32:03 <supermop> i want to give it the appearance of height relative to the rails at 4x zoom 15:33:00 <Belugas> hello 15:33:29 <frosch123> supermop: height is not a matter of catenary 15:33:41 <frosch123> the question is the sorting order with the train 15:34:07 <frosch123> the rail is drawn before drawing the train, the catenary after the train 15:35:22 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:35:30 <supermop> hmm 15:36:14 <supermop> but if the 3rd rail is in front of the track, and is 'tall' I might want it to appear in front of the train 15:36:23 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:36:31 *** lorem_ipsum [~lorem_ips@lore.xmw.de] has left #openttd [] 15:36:39 <supermop> that is occlude part of the bogies 15:37:23 <supermop> I guess i could always draw the 3rd rail behind 15:37:55 <supermop> then it wouldn't matter 15:40:03 * andythenorth ponders 15:40:27 <supermop> want to help me draw and code andy? 15:40:34 <andythenorth> make each FIRS industry a self-contained nml file, have nml compile it to nfo (as needed) 15:40:46 <andythenorth> then use python to mangle the nfo header stuff off, and concatenate 15:40:53 <andythenorth> then compile grf with grfcodec 15:40:55 <supermop> you always seem to want to make things complicated.... 15:41:10 <andythenorth> slow thing is slow 15:41:16 <andythenorth> dull thing is dull 15:41:17 <andythenorth> :P 15:43:04 <andythenorth> nmlc migt be persuaded to leave a comment in the compiled nfo 15:43:12 <andythenorth> like '//split_here' 15:43:22 <andythenorth> split on that, join, write file 15:43:25 <andythenorth> it's about 7 lines :P 15:43:30 <andythenorth> it will be quick 15:43:36 <andythenorth> to write and run 15:45:20 <andythenorth> when economies are added to FIRS, it will be unbearably slow to compile 15:45:59 <supermop> compile farm? 15:46:30 <andythenorth> compile needs to be made parallel before that's of value 15:46:36 <andythenorth> nml is not currently parallel 15:46:48 <andythenorth> my proposal goes towards making it parallel, or compiling only what's needed 15:48:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause....planetmak*r, Yex* and Terkh*n are all busy with RL. Alb*rth doesn't like newgrf or cpp much, and Foobar is buried in Dutch trains. How much do you want economies? ;) 15:48:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r24194 /trunk/src/ (60 files in 4 dirs): -Change: Rename the 'signal_side' setting to 'train_signal_side', and add a third option while doing so. 15:48:16 <andythenorth> this question is unrelated to monologue above 15:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make nml output a special action C? 15:48:30 <andythenorth> ho 15:48:31 <andythenorth> nice idea 15:49:06 * andythenorth wonders if nmlc likes being run via python multoprocessing 15:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> does nmlc support action C yet? like a "document()" macro or something? 15:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or a special #pragma 15:57:02 <andythenorth> multoprocessing? 15:57:12 * andythenorth wonders if that's like multiprocessing :P 16:02:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would the technique work for CETS? 16:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but CETS compile time is fairly reduced now... 16:03:09 <andythenorth> to...? 16:03:58 * andythenorth pulls 16:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> from like 7 minutes to 2 minutes 16:05:01 <andythenorth> 70% or so :) 16:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 steps: using grfcodec as intermediate step, removing the "deps" run, and removing all sprite template calculations 16:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/arable_farm.pnml", line 167: Unrecognized identifier 'build_prod_change' encountered 16:07:25 <andythenorth> hmm 16:07:36 <andythenorth> missing file? 16:07:39 <andythenorth> let's see 16:07:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A18B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:08:00 <andythenorth> oh 16:08:04 <andythenorth> update nml 16:08:08 <andythenorth> that's cb 15F 16:08:14 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, ok... 16:08:51 <andythenorth> sprite templates is interesting optimisation 16:09:13 <andythenorth> probably applies to FIRS 16:09:36 <Eddi|zuHause> firs builds in 48 seconds here 16:13:26 <Eddi|zuHause> 251/1 0.005 0.000 3.471 3.471 base_statement.py:151(get_action_list) 16:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that? 16:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: your sprite templates don't seem to use a lot of calculations... 16:18:08 <andythenorth> hmm 16:18:12 <andythenorth> FIRS is ~39s for me 16:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> but the first two steps may shave off like 50% 16:18:25 <Freudian> okay well I have been here for about five hours and I haven't understood a single word any of you have said. 16:18:27 <Freudian> OLLIE OUT 16:18:31 *** Freudian [~Freudian@host-2-97-193-17.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: OLLIE] 16:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> freudian slipped... 16:21:15 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:21:55 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 16:22:21 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 16:22:57 <andythenorth> a grfcodec encode of FIRS is about 1-2s 16:23:08 <andythenorth> I should patch the makefile to use that route :P 16:23:37 <andythenorth> and remove the deps 16:23:51 <andythenorth> I *always* build 'make clean' anyway, because deps are unreliable 16:27:10 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 16:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS revisions 548 and 549 might be for you then 16:34:47 * andythenorth looks 16:39:15 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-022-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:15 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:18 *** pugi_ is now known as pugi 16:41:12 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've copied cets r549 to firs 16:41:17 <andythenorth> nmlc: "scripts/Makefile.nml", line 1: Syntax error, unexpected token "USE_NML" 16:41:21 <andythenorth> builds though 16:41:30 <andythenorth> palette was wrong for some reason :P 16:41:48 <Eddi|zuHause> err... yes... i modified the palette flag 16:41:52 <andythenorth> k 16:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> if FIRS uses windows palette, you need to change that back 16:42:03 <andythenorth> I know where that is 16:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in the grfcodec line 16:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the -p1 to -p2 16:42:26 <andythenorth> done 16:43:09 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:43:44 <andythenorth> any idea about the unexpected token? 16:43:50 <andythenorth> it's not new :P 16:44:09 <andythenorth> [line 1 not new] 16:44:10 <andythenorth> didn't throw errors before though 16:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that even is 16:47:42 <andythenorth> nmlc tries to parse Makefile.nml? 16:48:06 <andythenorth> seems odd 16:48:22 <andythenorth> happens during the dep check I think 16:48:34 <andythenorth> I need to murder the dep check anyway, but not sure how to yet 16:48:51 <andythenorth> r548 looks quite specific to cets 16:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> ignore the python part, just make an empty file firs.grf.dep or so 16:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or put all .png files into that file 16:52:28 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "firs.grf: file1.png file2.png ..." 16:59:00 <andythenorth> so removing the dep check also clears the error 17:00:49 <andythenorth> 'touch firs.gfx.dep' is sufficient to get the check to pass 17:01:00 <andythenorth> but unfortunately make clean removes it :P 17:01:22 * andythenorth is worried about leaving a mess all over the makefile 17:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. put the "touch firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" line to the place where the nml call was before, i.e. under the "firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep:" entry 17:03:25 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 17:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or if you're evil, something like: echo 'firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep: \' > firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep; find -iname '*.png' >> firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep" target="_blank">firs.gfx.dep 17:04:24 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:05 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> err... that should be: echo 'firs.gfx: ... 17:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong again 17:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> firs.grf 17:14:18 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:48 <andythenorth> it is loud when a toddler tips over a box of lego 17:18:26 <Belugas> :) 17:18:48 <Belugas> it's loud too when a father's foot steps on a pointy lego block 17:19:16 <andythenorth> :P 17:19:24 <Belugas> OSTI D"CRISS DE TABARNAC!!!! RANGE TES BLOCS!!!! 17:19:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/firs_dep_check.diff 17:20:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: makes firs.grf depend on all png files unconditionally 17:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which is "close enough" if you assume that (almost) all png files are actually used 17:21:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ./sprites/graphics/industries/grainmill.old.png <-- things like this possibly not :) 17:25:46 <NGC3982> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/4022156_460s.jpg 17:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: that misses half the joke 17:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: better go to the original: http://xkcd.com/979/ 17:27:59 * andythenorth had lego tidying issues :P 17:28:23 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-153.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:28:24 <andythenorth> bah 17:28:37 <andythenorth> makefile editing sucks when you write a lot of python 17:28:44 <andythenorth> my editor converts tab to 4-space :P 17:28:47 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: (and see the hover text) 17:28:48 <andythenorth> which breaks 17:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause> get a smarter editor, who can do these settings based on (autodetected) language 17:30:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1378/ 17:30:08 <andythenorth> 17:30:39 <andythenorth> it's parsing -iname as chars I think :P 17:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> your find is weirder than mine, then 17:31:59 <andythenorth> BSD find 17:32:05 <andythenorth> -name looks like a similar flag 17:32:23 <Eddi|zuHause> -iname makes case-insensitive matching 17:32:24 <andythenorth> meh 17:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> at least in GNU find 17:34:03 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d99c:5872:e03c:f5ff] has joined #openttd 17:34:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:35:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: try to make it "find . -iname blah" 17:36:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: or try just "-name" 17:39:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24195 /trunk/src/lang/czech.txt: 17:39:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:39:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 1 changes by Paragulis 17:40:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 17:41:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:59 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has joined #openttd 17:44:03 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:45:54 <andythenorth> find: -printf: unknown option 17:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> ah. then forget it. 17:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> your find is stupid 17:46:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's useless 17:46:27 <andythenorth> bsd has to be different :) 17:50:28 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 17:53:38 <CornishPasty> Just install gnu, andythenorth 17:55:01 <frosch123> any is more into ponies than gnus 17:55:03 <frosch123> *andy 17:55:37 <andythenorth> unicorns :P 17:56:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: my solution is dumb (L47) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1379/ 17:57:06 <andythenorth> it stupidly requires make clean for first build :P 17:57:19 <andythenorth> it does build in 20s though :D 17:57:23 <andythenorth> from clean 17:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the %.grrf: line is wrongly indented 17:58:54 <andythenorth> fixed 17:59:17 <andythenorth> oh 17:59:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and don't put the touch in clean: put it under %.gfx.dep: 17:59:28 <andythenorth> now it doesn't build after I fixed the indentation :P 18:00:10 <andythenorth> fixed again :P 18:01:01 <Eddi|zuHause> %.gfx.dep: $(V_) touch $@ 18:01:35 <Eddi|zuHause> on two separate lines, of course 18:02:16 <andythenorth> done 18:04:11 <andythenorth> 23s 18:04:20 <andythenorth> this is back: nmlc: "scripts/Makefile.nml", line 1: Syntax error, unexpected token "USE_NML" 18:04:49 * andythenorth wonders if it's L56 18:04:51 <andythenorth> depend:: Makefile.dep $(patsubst %.grf,%.src.dep,$(GRF_FILES)) $(patsubst %.grf,%.gfx.dep,$(GRF_FILES)) 18:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea what that means 18:07:34 <planetmaker> it means that the target 'depend' is executed when... 18:07:59 <planetmaker> - Makefile.dep, *.src.dep for every *.grf and *.gfx.dep for every *.grf is made 18:08:41 <planetmaker> makefile differs between tab and space. They have a meaning 18:08:48 <andythenorth> so I found :) 18:09:16 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I don't want to drive a bus through all your makefile work with this 18:09:25 <andythenorth> I'm kind of hacking at stuff with no real idea 18:12:14 <andythenorth> this builds in 23s but with 3 errors 18:12:15 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1380/ 18:12:35 <andythenorth> all errors are nmlc: "scripts/Makefile.nml", line 1: Syntax error, unexpected token "USE_NML" 18:28:26 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:28:29 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:32:46 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 18:33:07 <Alberth> blip 18:34:22 <andythenorth> you missed it 18:40:23 <Alberth> I'll be in time for 0.7.6 :) 18:43:46 <andythenorth> you missed the makefile discussion :) 18:45:25 <Alberth> did anything interesting came out of it? 18:45:36 <andythenorth> @calc 39-23 18:45:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 16 18:45:40 <andythenorth> @calc 16/39 18:45:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.410256410256 18:45:58 <andythenorth> with Eddi's patch I have FIRS building 40% faster, but with 3 errors 18:46:02 <andythenorth> \o/ 18:46:05 <andythenorth> and also :| 18:46:31 <andythenorth> the errors don't affect the grf, only the dep check afaict 18:46:38 <Alberth> ditch dep construction? 18:46:57 <andythenorth> kind of 18:47:01 <andythenorth> I don't know how though 18:47:10 <andythenorth> my attempts to delete .dep things made the build slower :P 18:47:31 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1381/ 18:47:46 <andythenorth> ^ current state of scripts/Makefile.nml 18:49:07 <Alberth> rm -rf parsetab.py <-- haha :) 18:50:00 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 18:50:30 <Alberth> hmm, update to tip fails 18:52:07 <Alberth> nmlc: "sprites/nml/industries/arable_farm.pnml", line 167: Unrecognized identifier 'build_prod_change' encountered <-- it does boem :( 18:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: update nml, had the same problem 18:53:28 <Alberth> trying that :) 18:53:45 <Alberth> thanks for helping though :) 18:55:38 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-22.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 18:55:42 * andythenorth did patch nml ;) 18:55:52 <andythenorth> I should patch the errors too :P 19:01:00 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-32-182.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:12 <Alberth> translation updated :) 19:01:25 <andythenorth> \o/ 19:01:33 <andythenorth> now you just need to fix the makefile ;) 19:01:35 <andythenorth> or nml 19:01:44 <Alberth> or make nml2 ? 19:01:49 <Alberth> :D 19:02:27 <andythenorth> this is the wrong approach to optimisation, but... 19:02:32 <Alberth> making a newgrf linker would be fun, I think :) 19:02:34 *** Firartix [~artixds@127.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 19:02:39 <andythenorth> I want to be able to put in delimiters for identifier scope 19:02:44 <andythenorth> to reduce scanning 19:03:01 <andythenorth> in a well-designed newgrf, it's trivial to localise all varaction 2 IDs 19:03:10 <andythenorth> perhaps only if you wrote a lot of nfo though :P 19:03:51 <andythenorth> BANDIT for example would scope easily to each vehicle 19:04:12 <andythenorth> FIRS uses one varaction 2 ID shared between industries, not more 19:04:28 <andythenorth> with local scoping, the problem becomes more parallel afaict 19:04:46 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:05:22 <Alberth> I don't know what things get transfered from one nfo rule to another one 19:05:53 <andythenorth> if you read the chain of IDs it's usually trivial 19:06:02 <andythenorth> nfo is remarkably, pleasingly simple in that respect 19:06:07 <andythenorth> not in others :P 19:06:26 <andythenorth> I'm not convinced that the globally scoped identifiers are a significant win 19:06:35 <andythenorth> they might be a bad design 19:06:50 <Alberth> it's easy to implement, perhaps 19:07:07 <andythenorth> that's very important 19:07:12 <andythenorth> perhaps the most important thing 19:07:22 <andythenorth> bad designs aren't bad necessarily 19:07:46 <andythenorth> every time I use nml, I'm grateful for it 19:08:56 <andythenorth> however... 19:09:16 <andythenorth> the consistent use of ${vehicle.id} in BANDIT is telling 19:09:16 <andythenorth> switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, ${vehicle.id}_articulated_cb_switch, extra_callback_info1) { 19:09:30 <andythenorth> every identifier uses that pattern 19:09:36 <andythenorth> which suggests scopes :P 19:09:49 <andythenorth> and if we had scopes, we could have partial compile 19:11:14 <andythenorth> no partial compile while identifiers *might* be global 19:11:56 <andythenorth> compile of a grf like FIRS needs to be in ~10s range 19:17:23 <Alberth> I think it is not enough; you need the concept of a code-thingie with some 'holes' in it, which does not exist (for nml, nfo, nor grf) 19:20:48 <frosch123> wasn't the longest time for nml the encoding of the realsprites? 19:20:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: you mean, 'a template' ? 19:20:58 <andythenorth> :o 19:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is "fixed" by using grfcodec 19:21:31 <frosch123> so, maybe those should be preencoded 19:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: nml outputs to nfo, nfo is processed by grfcodec 19:22:09 <frosch123> does andy also do that? 19:22:14 <andythenorth> nobody seriously encodes the grf with nmlc 19:22:24 <andythenorth> at least if they can figure out how to hack their makefile to avoid it :P 19:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. he copied that from CETS 19:22:33 <frosch123> he, ok :) 19:22:40 <andythenorth> nml -> nfo -> grfcodec is *significantly* faster 19:22:46 <andythenorth> everyone should do it 19:23:26 <planetmaker> well 19:23:39 <planetmaker> it's a hack at best 19:23:42 <planetmaker> in my eyes 19:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need to add a dependency for the devzone's build farm 19:23:58 <andythenorth> hrm 19:24:12 <planetmaker> yes, devzone won't build that w/o updating the .devzone spec file 19:24:23 <andythenorth> also hrm 19:24:33 <andythenorth> I'm not committing any of this makefile hacking right now 19:24:39 <andythenorth> I don't trust what I'm doing :P 19:24:43 <Alberth> moin planetmaker 19:24:48 <planetmaker> hi Alberth :-) 19:25:13 * andythenorth reverts the makefile changes for safety reasons 19:25:55 <Alberth> you should do such experiments in a clone :) 19:26:08 <andythenorth> FIRS nml -> nfo -> grfcodec is < 11s 19:26:15 <andythenorth> FIRS nml -> grf is < 40s 19:26:32 <andythenorth> maybe I just dev with the quickbuild.sh I made 19:26:37 <andythenorth> and leave the makefile alone for the CF 19:35:16 <Alberth> a template is where you define where the hole is, and you supply its value. Linking copies values from the defining part to the part that needs it, and it is not fixed before you start linking what values are missing, where it should be copied from, or what its value is going to be 19:37:56 <andythenorth> linking sounds like a thing for grown up developers :) 19:38:45 <Alberth> if you want to make it, yes. Using it should be simple, not much more complicated than gcc with .o files :) 19:40:05 <andythenorth> my idea is to be able to call partial compiles on nml 19:40:08 <andythenorth> which is probably bad 19:40:41 * Alberth nods 19:40:52 <Alberth> grf would be ideal in a sense 19:42:01 <Alberth> although you need a bit more than just grf, as you need to keep track of values you define and values you need (names, offsets, and value) 19:45:29 <Alberth> the 'only' problem is however that currently nothing generates partially compiled output, so it's a format without any users. 19:47:30 <planetmaker> well. With container format v2, one could possibly write chunks of that in separate files or so. And then combine that 19:49:11 <Alberth> too many nice projects, and too little time :( 19:53:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:15 <planetmaker> yeah :-( 20:00:37 <planetmaker> Did I mention that I really like the output of your lang check script, Alberth? 20:01:09 <Alberth> not before now :) thanks :) 20:01:57 <planetmaker> I'm just pondering how the best way to get it flying. 20:02:05 <planetmaker> Probably make it part of the makefile frameworkà 20:02:18 <planetmaker> then every project has it and it can be called. Also offline by authors 20:02:29 <planetmaker> Ammler suggested to make --html the default 20:02:39 <planetmaker> it would mean the existing CF need not really change 20:02:54 <planetmaker> just the files which need copying to the bundles server 20:03:30 <Alberth> the script queries and builds a cache of old revisions of the master language, if it can process several languages in the same run, it would become cheaper 20:04:29 <planetmaker> can it or would it be a (future) enhancement? 20:05:10 <Alberth> currently you cannot do that, mostly because you cannot express it to the script 20:06:08 <Alberth> ie I don't destroy any data I build in the process, so just chaining several calls together inside the script should work 20:07:01 <Alberth> but you need to be able to say *.lng, and have a different way than > x.html for catching output :p 20:07:27 <planetmaker> *.html simple? 20:07:32 <planetmaker> w/o stating it explicitly 20:07:37 <planetmaker> and just --all instead 20:08:01 <Alberth> '.lng' is fixed? 20:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: not in CETS 20:09:07 <Alberth> we need at least one project to confirm the rule :p 20:09:14 <Alberth> but ok, it's not thus :) 20:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: we use ".lng.in", because we add strings 20:09:30 <planetmaker> what do you mean with ".lng is fixed"? The extension? 20:09:47 <andythenorth> I use .pylng 20:10:05 <Alberth> yes, otherwise you have to state what extension is safe to cut 20:10:17 <Alberth> ie --extension=.lng 20:10:17 <planetmaker> yeah... 20:12:05 <Alberth> so something like "cl --html -d --extension=.lng --output-dir=foo lang/english.lng lang/*.lng" <-- where the second english.lng should silently get ignored 20:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: "--master lang/english.txt"? 20:12:49 <Alberth> giving you foo/*.html, I guess 20:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: and use "english" as default when nothing is given 20:13:53 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: to make the master language a bit more explicit? could be, but is more typing when called manually 20:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, if you add a default value, you actually have less typing :p 20:15:34 <Alberth> Currently, I don't do magic searches for *.lng files, so unless you are in lang, and your master file is called 'english', it won't work :p 20:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: and if you give it an --input-dir and an --extension, then you can ommit all the lang/*.lng, and have it just go through all files in the directory 20:16:03 <Alberth> but defaults should be looked into as well 20:16:30 * Alberth likes --input-dir 20:18:04 <Alberth> now we just have to extend the nml format to state that translations are up-to-date even when the revisions say otherwise, and extend to state strings don't need translations :p 20:19:27 <supermop> can railtypes have custom foundations? 20:19:38 <Alberth> oh, and multi-line strings too of course (which is still in the inqueue of nml :( ) 20:20:15 <planetmaker> railtypes have no foundations 20:20:23 <planetmaker> they use the default ones, if needed 20:20:55 <supermop> hmm boo 20:20:58 <supermop> ok 20:21:53 <supermop> can i use any sprite template of my creation for railtypes, or must i draw sprites in the same order as the originals 20:22:54 <Alberth> as long as you mention them in the right order in nfo or nml, it should be fine, I think 20:23:15 <supermop> ok 20:23:22 <Alberth> at least I don't see how that could break 20:24:05 <supermop> and can I add both the 1x and 4x sprites in nml? 20:27:20 <planetmaker> you can add any zoom level or bit depth which OpneTTD supports 20:27:24 <planetmaker> You must supply 8bpp 1x 20:28:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A18B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:41 <Wolf01> 'night 20:28:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:33:48 <supermop> andythenorth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ2w3woKWBw 20:34:49 <andythenorth> :) 20:34:52 * andythenorth -> bed 20:34:54 <andythenorth> good night 20:34:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:50:24 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:50:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 20:53:54 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:55:30 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-153.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:55:55 *** peteris [~peteris@78.84.100.24] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:01:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7036.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:13 *** Firartix [~artixds@127.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:58 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 21:16:04 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:29:59 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:30:59 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120417165043]] 21:33:01 <Ammler> planetmaker: having --html as default was just an example, not really important, if the synstax isn't exactly the same as current 21:33:24 <planetmaker> what is important then? 21:33:44 <planetmaker> and what is nice to have? 21:34:25 <Ammler> either exact the same as now or it does not matter at all 21:35:49 <Ammler> also cache is useless 21:36:13 <Ammler> if I got that right, just read partially back :-) 21:37:10 <Ammler> well, cache might be usefull, if you run it locally... 21:40:06 <planetmaker> cache as in not generating the info for the default language over and over when creating output for any language file. 21:40:36 <Ammler> ah ok, so not meant to be used over different revs? 21:40:48 <planetmaker> no... over different lang files 21:41:09 <planetmaker> so, yes. Not meant to be used over revs. Over lang files 21:41:24 <planetmaker> or that's how I understood it 21:41:41 <Ammler> ok, never mind then... 21:44:17 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.wdr.de/Fotostrecken/wdrde/2012/04/wahlplakate.jsp?p=1 <-- that is totally genious [german] :) 21:56:25 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:56:51 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 21:57:51 <Zuu> Ammler: At the bundles server of openttdcoop.org, do you always keep the bundles now in a /releases/ path appended to the path given in the finger? 21:58:37 <Zuu> Eg, can I fix OTTDAU by assuming the /releases/ path or will that break in some cases? 21:59:15 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:01:32 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:03:05 <Zuu> According to the syntax definition at finger.openttd.org, the third column should be the path it the binaries server. However, if you add /releases/ there, it breaks identification of those items as there is no other ID-column. So perhaps the best is that I implicitly adds it if the finger-address is the openttdcoop server. 22:04:22 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@dslb-178-000-001-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:56 <Zuu> hmm, I just prove me wrong. yacd doesn't have a "releases" directory added to the path. So it is not predictable for all items. 22:11:23 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:05 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:43 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop] 22:23:57 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:11 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:28:36 *** Volley [~worf@chello080109200187.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:43 <Ammler> Zuu: it's the path 22:30:55 <Ammler> yacd has no subdir 22:31:39 <Ammler> afaik, it is like the finger file on openttd.org 22:32:03 <Ammler> but there is also LATEST 22:41:18 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> larich.oftc.net quits: Arafangion, Maarten_, DDR, namad7, Rhamphoryncus, EyeMWing, ccfreak2k 22:41:42 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-22.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:48:14 *** Maarten [~dutchusa@99-73-209-18.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 22:49:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@89-178-196-97.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:28 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:50:45 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:31 *** namad7 [aaaaa@c-67-163-246-17.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:52:46 *** EyeMWing [~Wing@c-68-33-226-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:53:43 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:58:38 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:00:06 <Zuu> yes yacd works correctly like finger on openttd.org, however cargodist does not, as there is no way to resolve the path using only the information in the finger-file of openttdcoop.org 23:01:00 <Zuu> Other than hardcoding that for cargodist one has to insert the /releases/ directory at the right place of the URL. 23:03:49 <Zuu> Night 23:11:49 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:45 *** Hazzard [~72f65473@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 23:19:49 <Hazzard> Hello 23:25:23 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:32:57 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:40:06 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:41:51 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@kamina.ldn1.uk.e43.eu] has joined #openttd 23:45:24 *** Hazzard [~72f65473@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:46:35 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 23:51:50 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@haqua.4chan.fm] has joined #openttd 23:53:57 *** Keyboard_Warrior [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]