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00:03:55 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 00:03:58 <drac_boy> hi 00:09:21 *** holyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Quit: Forlater kanalen] 00:09:34 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 00:19:06 <drac_boy> hm...another of these slow night I guess 00:22:30 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:27:22 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-9-245.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:30:14 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:33:45 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has joined #openttd 00:58:24 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:14:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:21 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 01:18:12 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:53:48 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 01:56:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CA26.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 02:01:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DA1C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:42 *** ToxicFrog [~ToxicFrog@24-246-40-169.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:58 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d99c:5872:e03c:f5ff] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:40:50 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:16 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 04:50:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66FFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:50:15 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:50:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67E46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:51:44 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 05:13:16 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 05:16:52 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 05:27:56 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:28:45 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:47 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 05:55:08 *** Firartix [~artixds@127.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 06:06:48 *** Firartix [~artixds@127.140.0.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:55 <Terkhen> good morning 06:36:40 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 06:45:30 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-6-224.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:53:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:54:23 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-6-224.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:12:10 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:18:55 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:30:22 <dihedral> hello 07:31:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:46:30 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-081-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:48:50 *** Hazzard [~7b7b6d70@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 07:49:56 <Hazzard> Hey 07:50:46 <Terkhen> hi dihedral and Hazzard 07:50:56 <dihedral> o/ 07:51:08 <dihedral> what's new in the world of openttd? :-P 07:53:35 <Hazzard> Trains 07:53:40 <Hazzard> They're amazing man 07:57:36 <dihedral> new ... :-P 07:58:38 <MNIM> scantily clad women on the sides of busses. 07:58:40 <MNIM> ...wait 07:58:44 <MNIM> that's not new either 07:59:15 <MNIM> scantily clad women on the side of aircraft? 08:01:36 <Terkhen> there are no people in OpenTTD 08:01:44 <Terkhen> just abstract passengers 08:04:10 <__ln__> then why is there a distinction between passengers and livestock 08:04:49 <Hazzard> There 08:04:54 <Hazzard> They're 08:04:54 <Hazzard> ... 08:04:56 <Hazzard> Pixels! 08:05:45 <MNIM> not even that. 08:05:53 <MNIM> they're bits! zeroes and ones! 08:06:15 <NGC3982> bits are not zeroes and ones 08:07:21 <NGC3982> it used to, but the national zerg institute of pasadena, LA stated that from 2011-01-01, a bit is defined by the number of slots filled with zerglings, or non-zerglings. 08:07:38 <Terkhen> because abstract passengers take up less space than abstract livestock 08:07:42 <NGC3982> parity is checked with an added hatchling. 08:08:10 <Terkhen> abstract space, of course 08:17:58 <CornishPasty> Isn't mail a passenger too? 08:18:44 <Hazzard> Is there a GRF that makes it so planes can carry only passengers? 08:19:48 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:20:18 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:24:36 <Terkhen> Hazzard: to my knowledge, no 08:24:48 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 08:25:09 <Hazzard> Seems like something that would be pretty easy 08:28:40 <Terkhen> yes, if you plan to change the default aircraft you only need to redefine their cargo properties 08:29:26 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-30.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:30:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just realised how stupid forests are in Arctic mode 08:30:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> you can only place them ABOVE the snowline 08:31:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> while in most countries i know, the forests are BELOW or ON the snowline, as above the snowline/treeline there simply wont grow anything 08:31:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> ofc treeline =/ snowline, but in general, if you go too high, shit wont grow... 08:31:38 <Hazzard> Yeah 08:33:44 <Terkhen> I don't remember if OpenGFX+ Industries allowed you to change that 08:33:46 <Terkhen> probably not 08:34:50 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.65.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:35:25 <Hazzard> How do you use 'cargo_allow_refit'? I keep getting an unrecognized identifier error and I can't find anything on the wiki. 08:36:15 <Terkhen> the cargo properties changed some time ago, I have not used them 08:36:23 <Terkhen> since they were changed 08:36:24 <Terkhen> let me see 08:37:41 <Hazzard> ? 08:37:46 <Hazzard> The code? 08:38:41 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-190-236.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:38:49 <Terkhen> no, the wiki :P 08:38:54 <Terkhen> I don't know the new properties, I'm reading 08:39:56 <NGC3982> hmz 08:40:10 <NGC3982> what was the name of that grf that starts 1830 with that planet engine? 08:41:23 <Terkhen> Hazzard: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1382/ <--- if I understood them correctly, this is what you would need to do 08:42:50 <Hazzard> Hmm 08:42:58 <Hazzard> Maybe I don't have the newest NML 08:43:07 <Hazzard> When I paste that in I get the same error 08:44:21 <Terkhen> that changed recently, yes 08:44:36 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-99-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:44:48 <Terkhen> I can give you an example with the old syntax if you want it, my own code in OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles follows it 08:45:16 <Hazzard> Ok 08:46:35 <Terkhen> but when/if you move to future versions of nml you will need to change it 08:46:46 <Terkhen> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1383/ <--- that will allow to refit only to passengers and tourists 08:47:15 <Terkhen> removing specific cargos from an allowed cargo class with the old system needs XORing a bit and I don't exactly remember how it was :P 08:47:41 <Terkhen> I don't know how that will affect the dual passenger/mail capacity of aircraft 08:48:05 <Hazzard> Oh, I am actually working on something different 08:48:24 <Hazzard> I want my RV to carry goods, but not all the other express stuff 08:48:37 <Hazzard> (along with some other CC) 08:48:58 <Terkhen> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-rv/repository/entry/src/cargo_definitions.pnml 08:49:05 <Terkhen> that is the cargo file from ogfx-rv 08:49:26 <Terkhen> you can use it as an example, but note that you would need to remove the #defines and the \ at line endings 08:50:14 <Hazzard> Do you need to specify non refitable cargo classes? 08:50:17 <Hazzard> It seems redundant 08:50:52 <Terkhen> cargos can have more than one cargo class 08:51:42 <Terkhen> if it has both a refittable and a non refittable cargo class, your vehicle won't carry it 08:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> http://fun.drno.de/pics/diespinnen_diebullen.jpg 08:55:54 <MNIM> not sure what that 08:55:59 <MNIM> 's supposed to say? 08:56:23 <MNIM> apart from the obvious literal translation, I mean 08:56:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it says "The Spiders" - "The Bulls" - "The Pigs" 08:57:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or if you want to interprete something into it, something along the lines of "the cop-bastards are crazy" 08:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which is *completely unintentional* :p 08:59:01 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:03:45 <MNIM> riiiight 09:05:21 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:08:45 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:28 *** th_gergo [~thiering@dhcp-100.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 09:14:31 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-100.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 09:14:32 *** th_gergo [~thiering@dhcp-100.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:34 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-100.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:23:01 *** th_gergo [~thiering@hardin.fat.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 09:36:49 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has joined #openttd 09:54:21 *** kkb110_ [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:11 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 10:00:09 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:01:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 10:03:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:40 *** Hazzard [~7b7b6d70@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:03:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has joined #openttd 10:08:22 *** Hazzard [~7b7b6d70@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 10:08:39 <Hazzard> Hello 10:10:00 <NGC3982> morning. 10:11:05 *** th_gergo [~thiering@hardin.fat.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:51 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-62-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:22:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 10:28:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-190-236.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:22 *** ZoeB [~ZoeB@82-69-105-163.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:35:59 <ZoeB> hi 10:40:23 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 10:41:59 <ZoeB> given the 32bit graphics now available, is it safe to say that OpenTTD is moving forwards with modern technology, not just slavishly imitating the original TTD? 10:43:51 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 10:46:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:47:07 <ZoeB> and assuming that's the case, are there any plans to support recordings of music (say, Ogg Vorbis files) instead of MIDI files at some point, for more realistic (and consistent sounding, from one machine to the next) music? 10:52:20 <Ammler> @tell Zuu looks like it is always releases, if it's empty, so use it as default? 10:52:20 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Error: I haven't seen Zuu, I'll let you do the telling. 10:52:32 <Ammler> stupid bot 10:53:06 <Ammler> if I would see him, I could indeed do it self :-P 10:54:10 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-43-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has joined #openttd 10:55:06 <Ammler> @seen Zuu 10:55:06 <DorpsGek> Ammler: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 11 hours, 51 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Zuu> Night 11:00:28 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has joined #openttd 11:01:57 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:01:59 <drac_boy> hi 11:13:49 *** Firartix [~artixds@www.clubnix.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:13:52 *** Hazzard [~7b7b6d70@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:01 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-99-2.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 11:20:05 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-107-30.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:22:51 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 11:22:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:10 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:50 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has joined #openttd 11:53:47 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [] 11:53:55 *** ZoeB [~ZoeB@82-69-105-163.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:04:05 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1177643171.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 12:07:11 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:07:11 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:26 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:25 *** cypher [~Miranda@wced-43-219-32-147.feld.cvut.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:14:29 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:15:04 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 12:15:33 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:04 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:24:26 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 12:24:35 *** guru3_ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:24:39 <Hazzard> Hello 12:26:03 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:30:15 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:30:24 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:2cbb:3e17:677f:decd] has joined #openttd 12:30:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:39:18 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 12:40:35 <Hazzard> How do I use callbacks so the cargo capacity will be the same for all cargos? 12:41:26 <Hazzard> Or any other way to do it 12:43:52 <TrueBrain> Ammler: its not the bot that is stupid, but your expectations of it ;) 12:44:14 <Ammler> indeed :-) 12:44:47 <Ammler> assumed a feature of another bot in a german community 12:45:04 <TrueBrain> I kept the bot very stupid, as people tended to abuse it a lot :'( 12:45:41 <Ammler> I guess, the supybot feature would be called note(s) 12:47:48 *** You [70c65bbd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:48:18 <TrueBrain> blender can be weird when importing 3ds models .. wrong center of objects 12:48:47 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has joined #openttd 12:48:52 <glx> you're back on lego ? 12:48:53 *** You [70c65bbd@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [] 12:49:09 <TrueBrain> yup 12:49:12 <TrueBrain> at least another attempt 12:49:27 <TrueBrain> I rarely get anywhere, as there are many minor issues witha lot of stuff 12:50:14 *** th_gergo [~thiering@hardin.fat.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 12:52:41 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:56:24 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:31 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:01:21 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 13:02:43 <TrueBrain> it would just be so cool if I was a blender expert :D 13:04:51 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: to me you are! ;) 13:06:08 <TrueBrain> that says more about you than me, sadly :( 13:06:44 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:08:52 <TrueBrain> my biggest issue atm is, that if you link a blend from another blend, you cannot change his parent 13:08:54 <TrueBrain> which is silly 13:09:08 <TrueBrain> so, you need to append to object, but then if you modify it in the original blend, it doesnt update 13:09:14 * TrueBrain thinks it makes little sense 13:09:27 * telanus is very happy 13:09:43 <telanus> Afrikaans is now 100% translated 13:13:22 <TrueBrain> ah, it has to be done via groups; why not just make it more complicated #idontlikeovercomplicationofthings 13:15:00 <NGC3982> telanus: neat! 13:15:38 <telanus> :D 13:18:00 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 13:20:32 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:34 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 13:54:51 <NGC3982> i just noticed that "conditional order jump" isnt translated in the latest stable 1.2.0 (swedish). 13:54:55 <NGC3982> what can i do? 13:55:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-43-55.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:00:10 *** ssdg [~ssdg@cho94-8-88-178-12-78.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:00:22 <ssdg> Hi! 14:02:11 <Hazzard> Hey 14:02:44 <ssdg> I have noticed a little glitch and I was wondering if someone experienced it too. 14:02:44 <ssdg> When playing with friends on a server one of use hosts, when deleting railroads, they disappear from our screens, then a few seconds later we are disconnected. When we come back, the railroads are back from the deads... it's really weird 14:03:15 <planetmaker> you disconnect with a desync I assume. Which version do you play, ssdg? 14:03:32 <planetmaker> I remember that bug from an ancient version and remember it be fixed 14:04:16 <planetmaker> If you don't play OpenTTD 1.2.0 or a (recent) nightly, try that 14:05:30 <Belugas> hello 14:05:54 <ssdg> It's a desync indeed. We play the 1.2... I'll check with the server owner. 14:08:23 * ssdg is still waiting for answers 14:08:29 <ssdg> (on my side) 14:09:36 <ssdg> a 1.2.0 on ubuntu everywhere. (the ubuntu version differs, but the openTTD version is the same) 14:09:43 <planetmaker> you don't need to check with server owner. Unless he uses a self-compiled version 14:09:56 <planetmaker> if it's not the same, you usually can't connect. 14:10:06 <ssdg> A self compiled version it is. (on ARM) 14:10:17 <planetmaker> yours? The server? 14:10:21 <ssdg> The server 14:11:47 <ssdg> Maybe you put the finger and the reason why our game glitches 14:14:35 <ssdg> Maybe we can try running a pre-packaged version on a i386 computer 14:18:14 <ssdg> Is there a trusted source for ARM packages somewhere? 14:18:27 <TrueBrain> in Debian most likely :) 14:18:37 <TrueBrain> they are ARM freaks, last I checked ;) 14:18:49 <TrueBrain> so the server runs ARM, and you all desync? (all clients)? 14:19:03 <ssdg> Indeed 14:19:12 <ssdg> -Indeed + Yes 14:19:22 <TrueBrain> now that is interesting :) 14:19:27 * ssdg spent too much time playing with spies on RedAlert 14:19:55 <ssdg> But only when one of us is working on railroads. (by removing some of them) 14:19:59 <TrueBrain> optimal we would like to get a desync log, but that might be kinda hard :D 14:20:08 <TrueBrain> does it happen always, or just sometimes? 14:20:54 <ssdg> Everytime we delete a section of railways. Not necessarily immediatly 14:21:09 <TrueBrain> a few minutes go by between desync checks 14:21:11 <michi_cc> Different architectures are always nice, anyone still remembers the bools-are-4-bytes-on-PPC fun? :) 14:21:24 <TrueBrain> I remember much more fun with PPC michi_cc ;) 14:21:58 <ssdg> TrueBrain: about that desync log. Say we had a few desync in the past, that we cant play as of this moment and one of us have an access on the server. What do we do? 14:22:00 <TrueBrain> ssdg: what systems do the clients run? (32bit/64bit, arm/intel/amd/...) 14:22:40 <TrueBrain> hmm, I am kinda rusty in dsync debugging, I dunno if release builds come with the desync log switch, or that it requires a recompile? 14:22:44 <ssdg> Mine is an intel (i7) running ubuntu 32 bits. (I guess one of my friens does run something similar) 14:22:45 <TrueBrain> I guess planetmaker does? 14:22:52 <TrueBrain> so no ARM clients? 14:23:24 <peter1138> i fucking hate linux 14:23:55 <peter1138> my desktop pcs can't connect to a vpn because the vpn manager doesn't support client side certificates 14:23:57 <ssdg> peter1138: I hate your system too 14:24:08 <blathijs> ssdg: You could try the Debian ARM version from: http://packages.debian.org/sid/openttd (downloads at the bottom, IIRC .deb packages are just tgz) 14:24:08 <ssdg> No ARM clients 14:24:11 <peter1138> my android phone, on the other hand, can 14:24:25 <blathijs> ssdg: As an extra datapoint in the testing 14:24:26 <TrueBrain> blathijs: was there ever someone who ran the ARM as server? 14:24:38 <TrueBrain> or are the ARM builds tested at all? 14:24:44 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Not by me :-) 14:24:54 <TrueBrain> I truly wonder if there ever has been a case before :P 14:25:22 <ssdg> We'll try this... when back from work 14:25:34 <peter1138> iirc the debian stuff just tests that it compiles 14:25:39 <planetmaker> well. 1.2.0 has one desync iirc related to house counts. Frosch fixed it recently 14:25:50 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: but that has no relation to removing railroad 14:25:54 <planetmaker> exactly 14:25:57 <TrueBrain> otherwise we would have had a 1.2.0-r1 already ;) 14:26:04 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 14:26:15 <planetmaker> would we? 14:26:28 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not being able to remove any railroad from any MP game, is kinda ..... 14:26:32 <TrueBrain> how to say it .. critical? :) 14:26:33 <planetmaker> we don't have that for the houses either. And it made the game under that circumstances unplayable :-) 14:26:40 <planetmaker> like desync in 5 seconds 14:26:42 <TrueBrain> there is a nuance difference ;) 14:27:01 <planetmaker> not quite. The difference is: you can't do anything then ;-) 14:27:11 <TrueBrain> huh? 14:27:25 <planetmaker> when you immediately desync 14:27:46 <planetmaker> it's like server kicks you a few seconds after connect :-P 14:27:58 <planetmaker> under certain circumstances. Anyway, nvm 14:28:03 <TrueBrain> dude ... a dsync on every removal of every track versus a dsync with certain grfs in certain cases ... 14:28:09 <TrueBrain> there is a nuance difference there 14:28:15 <TrueBrain> first is _very critical_, second is annoying 14:28:34 <planetmaker> anyway, ssdg, what you could do: 14:28:54 <planetmaker> debug_level desync=3 on the server 14:29:09 <planetmaker> save the game. Reload server-side 14:29:19 <planetmaker> (don't re-start) 14:29:47 <ssdg> Can I come back in 4~5 hours? 14:29:50 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:50 <planetmaker> note which game you loaded (might be the game you play, we'd need the savegame you start this debugging with) 14:30:01 <planetmaker> not sure you can. But you'll be welcome to :-) 14:30:27 <ssdg> did I make a language error here? (I might, I'm not native) 14:30:34 <ssdg> (Might have) 14:30:39 <planetmaker> no, you didn't. I'm splitting hairs 14:30:40 <TrueBrain> one warning: it makes a lot of data; you kinda want to desync ASAP, then close the server up :D 14:31:37 <planetmaker> Return when convenient and I will try to talk you through, provided I'm here. 14:32:05 <planetmaker> can't promise that atm, though, might be afk. But others could :-) 14:32:28 <planetmaker> desync bugs are annoying and hard to track 14:32:38 <ssdg> Thanks for the warnings. I'll see you once the data is "harvested". And thank you all for your help. (and niceness) 14:32:59 <planetmaker> you want maybe a gigabyte of free space or so. Depending on how long it takes to trigger the desync 14:33:30 <planetmaker> might go much faster and just need a few savegames 14:33:37 <planetmaker> really can't tell :-) 14:34:10 <ssdg> Is it easier with smaller maps? (or other tricks) 14:34:43 <TrueBrain> the faster you desync, the easier for us :) 14:34:58 <planetmaker> It'll make a lot of savegames, so it'd use less space. The map size might matter, but might not 14:35:22 <planetmaker> Just play the normal game you want to play and have the desync debugging switched on on the server 14:35:35 <planetmaker> It won't hurt you playing and will gather data needed to track the bug 14:36:10 <TrueBrain> after a desync, we can "replay" the log, and see where it went wrong (hopefully, in the easiest case :P) 14:36:16 <ssdg> So we can start a new game, build a railroad, delete it and try to force the server to desync. and send you a lot of savegames? 14:36:23 <planetmaker> i.e. I suggest to just continue the game you have problems with 14:36:54 <ssdg> (we restarted the game for other reasons... but we had the problem with every game) 14:37:01 <TrueBrain> how did you manage? 14:37:11 <TrueBrain> if you cannot remove any rail track? 14:37:14 <TrueBrain> sounds horrible :D 14:38:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f59ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:38:56 <ssdg> TrueBrain: it's a torture. 14:39:35 <TrueBrain> random question you might be able to answer now: does it happen when you destroy the tile, or if you remove the tile? (bulldozer versus red-square, so to say) 14:39:41 <TrueBrain> you now made me curious :D :) 14:40:16 <ssdg> Tried both, bot fail 14:40:47 <TrueBrain> interesting ... 14:40:55 <TrueBrain> well, desync logs will tell us more, hopefully :) 14:41:18 *** flaa [~flaa@089-101-093077.ntlworld.ie] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:41:26 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:41:35 <TrueBrain> and just out curiousity, why run a server on an ARM? What kind? 14:41:37 <ssdg> But I *think* the desync happends when the tile is modified in an impossible way (say add a signal on what was a crossroads) 14:42:03 <Rubidium> a desync due to endianness seems most 'logical' 14:42:12 <TrueBrain> ARM is also LE, at least, most of them are :) 14:42:14 <ssdg> It's a plug computer my friend runs as a NAS/multipurpose internet server 14:42:22 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 14:42:27 <Rubidium> though last time I tried BE it worked, although that's quite a while ago and with s390 14:42:49 <TrueBrain> its an interesting piece of hardware to run OpenTTD on :) 14:43:07 * TrueBrain still waits for his RaspberryPI :P 14:44:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, strictly, ARM is bi-endian, but most people / OSes run it in LE. I havent seen many BE cases (ofc this can be the exception :D) 14:45:21 <__ln__> nslu2's original firmware is BE, afaik. 14:52:29 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1013000#p1013000 says RPI has huge cost for clearing; that really sounds endian-ish tome 14:53:37 <planetmaker> indeed you might want to try the debian pre-compiled binary, too 14:55:14 *** Hazzard [~72fc24e6@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:55:17 <TrueBrain> is it me, or doesnt he mention which OS he used? 14:55:41 <michi_cc> In theory it could also be a problem with the sizes of uint8/uint16/etc, even if it is unlikely. We do have an assert_compile check, but it only checks sizeof, which is not required to return a results based on 8-bit bytes. 14:55:57 <ssdg> It's a debian sid IIRC. (checking in progress) 14:56:11 <TrueBrain> debian delivers both BE as LE, as far as I know :) 14:56:15 <__ln__> Rubidium: but if it was an endianness issue (and one that would have to be an old one), it would have been noticed on OS X PPC a long time ago. 14:56:23 <ssdg> would a "uname -a" be usefull? 14:56:29 <TrueBrain> where BE was very unstable last I have seen it, but that has been a while ago, so *shrug* 14:56:45 <TrueBrain> __ln__: does it? Who runs OSX PPC still? :P 14:56:57 <TrueBrain> and who runs it as server? 14:57:01 <TrueBrain> (or client) 14:57:12 <michi_cc> More likely would also be a code generator fail for 64-bit arithmetics (i.e. the Money type). 14:57:28 <__ln__> TrueBrain: i do, but not as server. 14:57:56 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: that tbh, sounds much more likely yes :) 14:58:10 <__ln__> TrueBrain: in any case, removing tracks is such a common thing to do that it would be noticed pretty much immediately even if there are only a handful of PPC users. 14:58:23 <TrueBrain> __ln__: but how many of that handful run it as client/server? :P 14:58:34 <TrueBrain> my point is, the fact that you dont hear anything, doesnt mean it works 14:58:36 <TrueBrain> sadly 14:58:46 <TrueBrain> it might have been dismissed as: OSX .. 14:59:21 <TrueBrain> no negative sadly doesn't imply a positive :( 14:59:29 <__ln__> yes, sad 14:59:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: if it's dismissed as being OSX, then it would still be in the bug tracker with [OSX] Desync ... or [OSX] Clearing rail costs loads of moneys 14:59:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: who says any of those few users went via the bug-tracker? 15:00:06 <TrueBrain> again, no negative doesn't make a positive :) 15:00:12 <ssdg> Our server is a "Linux korriban 2.6.32-5-kirkwood #1 Wed Jan 12 15:27:07 UTC 2011 armv5tel GNU/Linux" 15:00:30 <__ln__> i thought OTTD bug-tracker is the place where cool people hang around regularly. no? 15:00:50 <TrueBrain> el .. was that the LE version? my memory sucks :P 15:01:43 <michi_cc> Should be, ARMv5TE is the device and the L probably means little. 15:02:04 <TrueBrain> Debian has EL and HF atm 15:02:07 <TrueBrain> where HF = Hard Float 15:02:46 <TrueBrain> but yes, it is LE 15:02:47 <__ln__> armv5teb returns quite a few results on google at least 15:03:00 <TrueBrain> yeah, it is still "work in progress", the BE port of Debian 15:03:02 <TrueBrain> many many many issues :( 15:03:34 <Rubidium> my BE PPC qemu 'works' with r24111 15:03:37 <Rubidium> though gcc 4.4.5 15:03:57 <TrueBrain> so he runs an LE version, dismissing any of the Endian suggestions ... which makes this problem more interesting tbh :D 15:04:15 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:39 <michi_cc> So, next question: Compiler version used? 15:04:41 <TrueBrain> it might mis-detected BE/LE? 15:04:52 <TrueBrain> guess we need a config.log too :D 15:04:56 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 15:05:11 <TrueBrain> ssdg: do you have the config.log of the server? :) 15:05:43 <TrueBrain> owh, doesnt tell the endian result, nor the gcc version 15:05:46 <__ln__> now is it even possible to accidentally run something as BE on an ARM 15:05:48 <TrueBrain> I did such a bad job there :'( 15:06:29 <TrueBrain> __ln__: no, but for all we know OpenTTD things it is BE (gcc still makes a LE binary). It is just highly unlikely, as many more things would break :P 15:06:33 <Eddi|zuHause> shame on you! 15:06:58 <TrueBrain> a crash.log tells more than the config.log, omg 15:07:47 <TrueBrain> its strange, as we do know the version in the configure 15:07:52 <__ln__> TrueBrain: but doesn't OpenTTD base its opinion on executing some binary... 15:07:53 <TrueBrain> it is just never written to the config.log :'( 15:08:11 <TrueBrain> __ln__: it runs a small app that checks the order of a short() 15:08:13 <TrueBrain> yes 15:09:01 <TrueBrain> unsigned char endian_test[2] = { 1, 0 }; 15:09:07 <TrueBrain> if (*(short*)endian_test == 1 ) 15:10:18 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-137.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has joined #openttd 15:10:19 <__ln__> looks like i'm missing a lot of fun by not being an early adopter of raspberry pi. :( (yes, debugging cross-platform issues is my idea of fun) 15:10:29 <TrueBrain> I agree with you 15:11:42 <ssdg> __ln__: maybe you could enjoy qemu ;) 15:11:47 <Rubidium> then OpenTTD's bug tracker has a whole lot of fun for you! ;) 15:12:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: isnt it a pre to have those devices to start with? :D 15:13:37 <__ln__> i have a real ARM already though, a sheevaplug. but it obviously doesn't have any video output. (yes, X over SSH would be a possibility) 15:14:09 <TrueBrain> so get moving you lazy bumb :D 15:15:25 <__ln__> i gotta go have a beer with some german people first, but tonight i'll see what the sheevaplug can do. :) 15:16:17 <TrueBrain> I doubt you will be in any condition to do that then ;) 15:16:18 <TrueBrain> enjoy :D 15:16:44 *** th_gergo [~thiering@hardin.fat.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:17:06 <__ln__> thanks :) 15:18:23 *** th_gergo1 [~thiering@dhcp-137.mt.wlan.bme.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:24 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has joined #openttd 15:23:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:24:37 <TrueBrain> now I need to figure out how I can read Groups in an external Blend file ... lets seeeeeeeee 15:24:44 <andythenorth> hello 15:26:32 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 15:32:46 <andythenorth> meh 15:32:48 <andythenorth> gui fixing 15:32:50 <andythenorth> blearch 15:34:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e09ee84.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:42:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:46:19 <TrueBrain> yippie! My blender script works :D Automation ftw :D 15:47:23 *** ElusiveParticle [b89e1566@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 15:47:48 <ElusiveParticle> http://www.elusiveparticle.hostoi.com/ Excuse me, could one of you possibly do me a favor and visit my website? it's full of science stuff, I just want you to check it out It's interesting and full of video links, if you won't or you think it's some virus, don't worry about it it's not, just worry about your education, this is science please! 15:47:58 <frosch123> @kban ElusiveParticle 15:47:59 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!b89e1566@ircip1.mibbit.com] by DorpsGek 15:47:59 *** ElusiveParticle was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [frosch123] 15:47:59 <TrueBrain> @kban ElusiveParticle goodbye 15:48:00 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Error: ElusiveParticle is not in #openttd. 15:48:01 <TrueBrain> AWH! 15:48:03 <frosch123> faster :) 15:48:11 <TrueBrain> :D 15:48:49 <TrueBrain> hmm .. how do I make 8bpp graphics out of my 32bpp? 15:48:55 <TrueBrain> any automated process you can let lose on it? 15:49:05 <frosch123> none which is worth the result 15:49:32 <TrueBrain> honestly, I dont really care how good it looks :P 15:50:01 <andythenorth> don't bother, 8bpp is dead :) 15:50:08 <TrueBrain> I still need to feed it in grfs ;) 15:50:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: then just provide a black image 15:50:37 <TrueBrain> initial results via GIMP werent that bad 15:51:04 <andythenorth> draw a pixel art gravestone 15:51:13 <TrueBrain> me? drawing? 15:51:15 <TrueBrain> haha :D 15:51:21 <TrueBrain> I would get emails asking wtf it represents :P 15:52:20 <andythenorth> put in pixel font "for the avoidance if doubt, this is a gravestone" 15:52:30 <andythenorth> "representing the death of 8bpp" 15:53:25 <TrueBrain> anyway, not really helping :P 15:53:36 <TrueBrain> gimp has a command line ... now I need to know the command ... 16:00:09 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-22.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 16:03:34 <TrueBrain> worlds worst command line :P 16:03:35 <TrueBrain> lolz 16:03:41 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-081-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 16:04:54 <frosch123> it's lisp or so :) 16:05:20 <TrueBrain> or so, yes; also, totally undocumented, it still boots the GUI stuff up, on error it just tells you there was an error (NO DEBUGGING WHAT SO EVER), ...... 16:05:33 <frosch123> you cannot call just call a function, you first have to open several parantheses 16:05:55 <frosch123> -call 16:06:00 <TinoDidriksen> So script ImageMagick instead? 16:06:10 <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: just looking at that yes 16:06:28 <andythenorth> or pil 16:07:31 * andythenorth should write a pixa routine for upscaling pixels 16:10:31 <TrueBrain> imagemagck does something, at least I get a grey image :D :P 16:14:31 <TrueBrain> lol, greyscaled image 16:14:32 <TrueBrain> useful :D 16:18:23 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #openttd 16:19:11 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:35:28 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:36:21 <NataS> i don't understand why people want an extra zoom level in 16:36:32 <NataS> and not extra zoom levels OUT 16:37:35 <TrueBrain> what has one to do with the other? (except them containing the word "zoom") 16:37:41 <TrueBrain> kinda a different audiance for both 16:45:19 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 16:47:15 *** ssdg [~ssdg@cho94-8-88-178-12-78.fbx.proxad.net] has left #openttd [] 16:52:07 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:02:21 <TrueBrain> owh, some tools ... a png with 256 colours, greyscale, 8bit 17:02:23 <TrueBrain> yes, greyscale 17:02:25 <TrueBrain> argh 17:03:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you can have python in gimp 17:03:56 <TrueBrain> ah, the alpha channel is giving troubles 17:03:57 <TrueBrain> hmm 17:04:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.99.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:17 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:59 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 17:06:04 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:09:48 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:11:00 <NGC3982> http://www.dudelol.com/img/bad-argument-hippie.jpg 17:15:54 <TrueBrain> argh, why cant I just convert a RGBA to an indexed image ....... 17:16:00 <TrueBrain> its so easy i nGIMP, via the freaking menu :( 17:21:42 <frosch123> hmm, once i connected two computers with the serial port and simulated a mouse with one of them, to automate a task on the other one 17:22:25 <Zuu> frosch123: sounds interesting and far more advanced than using the windows script host :-) 17:22:47 <frosch123> though i had to try quite long until the mousemovement worked out, because i failed to notice that it would be a good idea to disable mouse acceleraion :) 17:23:03 <Zuu> Especially as you only probably can do relative mouse movement. :-) 17:23:24 <Zuu> Although I guess one can reset to a corner easily. 17:23:35 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: load it in PIL, load a palette from another file (e.g. I have one you could use), apply the palette, save 17:23:40 <frosch123> Zuu: after each iteration of the task i moved the mouse hard top-left to recalibrate 17:23:42 <andythenorth> it's about 9 lines of python 17:23:49 <andythenorth> if you want to resize at that point you can 17:23:52 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: can that be automated? 17:23:55 <andythenorth> alpha channel might dick you around a bit 17:23:57 <TrueBrain> and wtf is PIL? :P 17:24:08 <andythenorth> TrueBrain python imaging library 17:24:17 <andythenorth> considered to be inferior to image magick, but meh 17:24:25 <andythenorth> IM looks complicated, PIL is simple 17:24:35 <TrueBrain> got an example script? 17:24:35 <frosch123> hmm, actually ... i think i used two serial ports to simulate mouse and keyboard, and i connected the mouse only because the windows serial keyboard only allowed ascii, so i could not simulate alt+hotkeys 17:25:12 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I could write one, but no time right now, bathing a child :P 17:25:21 <TrueBrain> while texting? 17:25:22 <TrueBrain> bad! :P 17:25:26 <andythenorth> neglect 17:26:15 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has joined #openttd 17:26:30 <TrueBrain> hmm, GIMP does not what he claims 17:26:36 <TrueBrain> he removes colour entries from the colour map 17:26:41 <TrueBrain> while I do uncheck it 17:26:48 <TrueBrain> so .. my colourmap image is broken to start with :'( 17:26:54 <TrueBrain> I need a png which contains all the OpenTTD colours :P 17:27:27 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: all 32bpp? 17:27:30 <andythenorth> or 8bpp? 17:27:31 <andythenorth> DOS? 17:27:33 <TrueBrain> 8bpp ofc :P 17:27:36 <TrueBrain> win I guess, I dunno :P 17:27:45 <andythenorth> DOS is de-rigeur 17:27:56 <TrueBrain> ANY will be fine for me :P 17:28:11 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/2458/palette_key.png 17:28:31 <TrueBrain> do you have any idea how long I search for that? 17:28:33 <TrueBrain> :P 17:28:39 <frosch123> TrueBrain: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/documents/1 17:28:49 <frosch123> there are gimp palette files there 17:28:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I know 17:29:01 <TrueBrain> but I need an ImageMagick 17:29:06 <TrueBrain> tnx andythenorth 17:29:26 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: also an example PIL script which makes that palette http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/bandit/repository/entry/src/pixel_generator/generate_palette.py 17:29:37 <andythenorth> requires a paletted image called 'foo.png' :P 17:29:47 <TrueBrain> hehe 17:29:51 <andythenorth> will produce whatever 256 colours are in the palette, with index numbers 17:29:56 <andythenorth> it's a nice PIL example 17:30:14 <TrueBrain> awh, it is not part of Blender 17:30:16 <TrueBrain> how sad 17:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> the easiest way to generate a palaetted image is "grfcodec -d -p{1,2} <whatever.grf>" 17:31:53 <TrueBrain> well, with that png file convert does what it should do, only it doesnt keep the fucking colormap :( 17:31:56 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: easiest? I disagree :P 17:32:42 <andythenorth> http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/index.htm 17:34:14 <__ln__> so the steps to reproduce the RPI problem would be to: 1) build a track, 2) destroy a track, 3) anti-profit? 17:34:40 <__ln__> in a local game? 17:34:47 <TrueBrain> networked 17:35:33 *** Devedse [~Devedse@d100059.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:36 <__ln__> the forum post doesn't mention network nor multiplayer though 17:35:46 <TrueBrain> well, try both 17:36:27 <__ln__> yeah, i'll begin investigating a bit 17:39:51 <frosch123> __ln__: i agree with albert, first check the sizes of uint32 and co 17:40:06 <frosch123> hmm, though maybe we have an assert_compile for those 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24196 /trunk/src/lang/ (14 files): (log message trimmed) 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 33 changes by telanus 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 6 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 4 changes by Paragulis 17:40:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by habell 17:41:52 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E8CC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:47:01 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:56:55 <TrueBrain> how nice .. I now have it to make me a 256 palette png 17:56:57 <TrueBrain> but ... 17:57:00 <TrueBrain> it first does the colours it used 17:57:03 <TrueBrain> then fills it with the rest 17:57:07 <TrueBrain> +++++ software I am using here! 17:59:42 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:01:09 <TrueBrain> lol: last updated May 2005 18:01:10 <TrueBrain> lovely 18:03:01 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:07 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-6-224.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 18:07:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 18:08:52 <Wolf01> hello 18:11:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:12:18 <__ln__> Wolf01: http://is12.snstatic.fi/img/978/1288466244142.jpeg 18:12:30 <Wolf01> :D 18:13:34 <TrueBrain> planetmaker / someone else: when I download the png from http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/trgtr/data/sprite57.png , and I try to put it in nml, it tells me it is the wrong palette? 18:13:53 <TrueBrain> known issue? am I doing something wrong? is there a better source? 18:16:11 <frosch123> it's a broken win palette 18:16:22 <TrueBrain> owh, it is from the original grf 18:16:25 <TrueBrain> now I see .. 18:17:24 <TrueBrain> explains a few things :D 18:17:25 <TrueBrain> hihi 18:17:39 <TrueBrain> (why my earlier attempts failed, but with the png from andythenorth it worked) 18:18:00 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:18:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> heya 18:18:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> is there a way to change industry parameters in opengfx? --> forests only above snowline is stupid if you ask me, i prefer forests on hillslopes, or in the valley's rather then on top of my mountain..... 18:19:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> and ofc sprites are drawn with snow 18:19:33 <ZxBiohazardZx> and/or make them snow-aware ? 18:19:52 *** Ryton [~Ryton@94-226-98-24.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:20:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> also NataS here? 18:23:10 <NataS> YES~ 18:23:11 <NataS> I am now 18:23:13 <NataS> sup 18:23:21 <NataS> also no work today 18:24:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> haha 18:25:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> was wondering about the cuba game :P 18:25:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> ;) 18:25:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> want me to start a new one 18:25:22 <ZxBiohazardZx> on Cargodist or the Chrill pack? 18:25:25 <NataS> yes, and Actualy, can we do a diffrent map? 18:25:28 <NataS> Chrill pack is nice 18:26:00 <NataS> http://wiki.openttd.org/Scenario:The_Barrens 18:26:37 <NataS> this is my favorite map, however it does have a rare newgrf, I have removed it and played a full game without any problems though. 18:26:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz 18:26:59 <NataS> also, what newgrfs do you like? 18:27:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think roma had some similar maps 18:27:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> but whatever you want 18:27:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> as long as the grfs are on banana's im cool with anything 18:27:36 <NataS> I like TRS, ISR, Japan stations, FISH AV8, HEQS and EGRVTS 18:27:42 <NataS> that's what I had for the last game lol 18:27:53 <andythenorth> have CHIPS with your FISH 18:28:10 <NataS> lol 18:28:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> hmmz 18:28:24 <NataS> i like where chips is going, but it needs more things before it can replace IRS 18:28:27 <NataS> ISR 18:28:34 <andythenorth> it's not trying to replace ISR 18:28:38 <andythenorth> ISR exists 18:28:48 <__ln__> trunk compilation time on 1.33GHz PPC: 27m30s, 1.2GHz ARM: 43m9s 18:28:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> FISH, Dutchsets (dunno why i just like it), ISR (cause its epic) CHIPS (has some nice tiles, but lacks some others) 18:28:56 <NataS> ISR needs an update 18:29:00 <TrueBrain> __ln__: auch 18:29:01 <andythenorth> hard 18:29:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> Andy you created CHIPS right? 18:29:06 <andythenorth> yup 18:29:17 <NataS> and having one station set that does everything well and is consistant with itself would be ideal 18:29:21 <ZxBiohazardZx> darn i forgot what tile i lacked on it 18:29:23 <NataS> right now I load ISR and japan stations 18:29:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> i had a nice station in my mind but i lacked one sort of CHIPS tile to make it complete :P 18:29:46 <NataS> but that leads to clutter, inconsistancy, and unused station types. 18:29:48 <andythenorth> if you remember let me 18:29:50 <andythenorth> know 18:30:00 <andythenorth> CHIPS has room for another 5 or 6 tiles I reckon 18:30:03 <andythenorth> then it's done, done done 18:30:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> hehe 18:30:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> do you have a list of current tiles 18:30:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> <-- to lazy to open ingame just to check the current tiles :P 18:30:41 <NataS> will CHIPS have more buildings and more complex stations? 18:31:04 <andythenorth> yes and no 18:31:06 <andythenorth> in that order 18:31:08 <andythenorth> single tiles 18:31:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy just go ingame and check andy 18:31:31 <andythenorth> most things it lacks are available elsewhere 18:31:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> unless you have a full spritesheet laying around 18:31:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah but i found something others also lacked 18:31:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> or at least didnt have a matching look for :) 18:32:00 <NataS> in one screenshot I saw what looked like an ISR building on a CHIPS platform, what is that? 18:32:05 <NataS> some sort of custom grf? 18:32:22 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=158459 18:32:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> 0.7.0 is latest? (i doubt so) 18:33:26 <andythenorth> 0.7.0 is latest 18:33:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> ok 18:33:51 <andythenorth> it will get to 1.0 quite fast 18:33:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> so you have hte 4 base-baretiles and the 12 additional tiles :P 18:33:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy see 18:34:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think DWE had some nice tiles 18:34:05 <andythenorth> +1 18:34:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> but they didnt quite match the styles 18:34:23 <andythenorth> the new objects thing by Quast65 looks good 18:36:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> linky link? 18:36:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> you mean the additional ISR tiles from him? (dock ones?) 18:36:42 <Wolf01> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o18u4jeeUPY&feature=player_embedded nice :D 18:36:51 <TrueBrain> okay, giving up trying to convert a 32bpp to a 8bpp palette ... omfg ... who would have thought .. 18:39:50 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-86-49-73-68.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:40:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> andythenorth i miss some FIRS styled total indoor unloaders (like a huge shed, or some tiles like the FIRS aluminiumplant/cementplant) and some raised tiles with some random FIRS stuff on it might be nice as well 18:40:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka muddy tracks for the sand/forests? 18:41:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> a bit less muddy then the platforms you have now, a tad more greenish on the sides, if that made/makes any sense 18:41:29 <__ln__> the bad news: it's fucking slow over wi-fi and X11; the good news, i cannot destroy a piece of track because it costs £241.591.910.343 and i don't have that much. 18:42:00 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka mud tiles should be more like the Quarry platforms, fading towards the "normal" green grass (or arctic brown grass, whatever is used) 18:42:00 *** ssdg [~ssdg@cho94-8-88-178-12-78.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 18:42:53 <ssdg> Hi 18:42:54 <TrueBrain> __ln__: enjoy figuring out why :D 18:43:15 <TrueBrain> make sure to check the Money class, check uints and ints etc, make sure BE/LE is all in order, etc etc :) 18:43:44 <TrueBrain> __ln__: and if you cant find it, please do feed us with information like gcc version, architecture, and basic other information; I am sure you know which we like :D 18:43:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> <__ln__> / TrueBrain, the costs are insane due to inflation that is huge? 18:45:18 <ssdg> TrueBrain: still on the ARM arhitecture case study? 18:45:51 <__ln__> 21:47 < __ln__> the bad news: it's fucking slow over wi-fi and X11; the good news, i cannot destroy a piece of track because it costs £241.591.910.343 and i don't have that much. 18:47:02 <TGYoshi> [random breakthrough] Any of you have any idea how to calculate the distance between a point and a straight line? [/random breakthrough] 18:47:28 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: tile mixing with default ground from the tile are desired, but are pretty much impossible due to station spec 18:47:45 <andythenorth> at least to do well 18:48:08 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:51 <__ln__> btw, i also confirmed that destroying tracks is not that bloody expensive on PPC. 18:52:08 <ssdg> expensive? 18:52:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> andythenorth yeah true, i just dislike teh whole brown thing as mud, i would prefer it to blend in a bit with the tile next to it :P 18:52:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> as i thought stations where an overlay so you could just make a transparant tile and have it solved 18:53:29 <ZxBiohazardZx> TGYoshi in R3? 18:53:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> its plain math :P 18:53:50 <TGYoshi> ZxBiohazardZx R3? 18:53:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> you have point (x,y) or (x,y,z) 18:54:15 * Rubidium is stupid... trying to reproduce the arm issue on ppc 18:54:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> R2 = <x,y> R3 = <x,y,z> 18:54:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> the space :P 18:54:20 <TGYoshi> aha 18:54:31 <TGYoshi> R2 then 18:54:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> ok so you need point -> line R2 18:54:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> not that hard 18:54:43 <__ln__> R2 is also a tiny robot in star wars. 18:54:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah yeah TGYoshi just needs some math done :P 18:54:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> 1 sec phone though 18:55:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> ill explain after phone :P 18:55:11 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: blend might be possible, we tried lots of things 18:55:15 <TGYoshi> DonŽt forget vertical lines :3 18:55:17 <andythenorth> can't remember which ones work 18:55:25 <andythenorth> I think we always get green grass 18:55:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> TGYoshi --> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Point-LineDistance2-Dimensional.html 18:55:39 <ZxBiohazardZx> im even to lazy to explain wolfram is your friend for it 18:55:48 <TGYoshi> ThatŽs what my problem is :P 18:55:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> andy if its 100% transparent, then why is it green 18:56:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> TGYoshi, what? 18:56:24 <TGYoshi> My lines arenŽt ax+by+c, they are actually line [parts] defined by two points 18:56:26 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: base tile 18:56:38 <TGYoshi> (so they can also be vertical etc..) 18:56:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> GTYoshi any line can be represented by a vector 18:56:44 <ZxBiohazardZx> its vector math 18:57:00 <TGYoshi> mm 18:57:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> the beauty of math is that eventually they always find a formula that is true in ALL X/Y combinations 18:57:47 <ZxBiohazardZx> that is vertical, horizontal and even R^3 18:58:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> a horizontal line is 0 1 a vertical line is 1 0 18:58:33 <ZxBiohazardZx> the vector equation still holds 18:58:45 <ZxBiohazardZx> regardless of values 18:58:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> goddamn Mila Kunis is hot 18:58:54 <TGYoshi> oh god xD 18:59:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im8Ajuk4gE8 18:59:47 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: if you have pictures of structures you think should be considered...post links? 19:00:03 <ZxBiohazardZx> will do andythenorth, im just trying to think of a structure 19:00:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> i just lacked stuff to stick to the cement / aluminium plant 19:00:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> as they have a more modern architecture and there isnt a stationset that truely fits with that 19:00:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> so maybe some grey-toned warehouses like on FIRS (also your creation afaik so ) 19:01:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> TGYoshi 12 down is more relevant for your problem btw, you can do it with 2 points in (any) space 19:02:06 <TGYoshi> 12 down? .. 19:02:11 <andythenorth> ZxBiohazardZx: have a look at what pikka did for finescale track grf depots 19:02:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> equation 12 down :P 19:02:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy see andy 19:02:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> got a hotlink for me ? XD 19:02:52 <ZxBiohazardZx> TGYoshi on the wolfram site i linked, there are (12) on the right side to indicate equation stuff 19:02:56 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.90.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03:09 <andythenorth> http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Finescale_standard_gauge_and_3rd_rail 19:03:10 <ZxBiohazardZx> from 12 down its about any line between 2 points and any point in the space around it 19:03:15 <ZxBiohazardZx> lemmy see 19:03:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah i liked the grey bedding on the side, and also the depot tiles are very nice 19:03:42 <andythenorth> I can include any of those 19:03:48 <andythenorth> pikka has done both angles ;) 19:03:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> i seriously think we lack some good depot tiles for normal scale tracks as well, i always used the bigger depots so i could make them linking up 19:03:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> haha 19:04:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> well the middle one looks nice for usage in a station as well if you ask me 19:04:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> and bottom right one 19:04:21 <TGYoshi> ZxBiohazardZx ahhhh I see, thanks - random v variabele 19:04:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> the other tiles are nice but less likely to be usable for stations i think 19:04:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> less realistic layouts, in those cases the building would be on 1 side 19:04:51 <andythenorth> hmm 19:04:56 <andythenorth> I might just use all of them :P 19:05:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> haha not bad, pikka always has some nice graphics 19:05:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> i also like that trackbed on the right there :P 19:06:16 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway i still hope you can get muddy to be less, eeehm brown flat surface 19:06:25 <ZxBiohazardZx> maybe make it green/brownish as in the forest tiles? 19:06:36 <andythenorth> [shrug] it matches the mud tiles in FIRS 19:06:45 <andythenorth> not the opengfx one though 19:06:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know 19:06:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know 19:07:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> im comparing to FIRS 19:07:03 <andythenorth> forest style tiles is a valid idea 19:07:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> hence i suggested for aluminium plant & cement plant 19:07:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> you lack tiles for some nice industry combinations 19:07:38 <andythenorth> every time the ground tile is discussed, I have to remind myself why it's not possible :P 19:07:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> eg the mud ones for me would be nice for forests, and also the wooden hut with it 19:07:40 <andythenorth> let's see 19:07:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> but it turns out to be a bit to muddy for me 19:08:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> and just turns into 1 huge brown square 19:08:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> rather then being "realistically muddy" 19:08:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:08:39 <andythenorth> ok, the issue is that the tile underneath is not terrain aware 19:08:52 <andythenorth> so you get temperate grass, arctic grass, or tropic grass 19:08:53 <TGYoshi> ZxBiohazardZx thank you, figured it out 19:08:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> because spec demands so? 19:09:00 <andythenorth> yes 19:09:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> im starting to hate the spec 19:09:11 <andythenorth> so no snow, no partial snow, no desert, no partial desert 19:09:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> same for stupid forests above snowline 19:09:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> i hate that :P 19:09:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> andy is that because the spec expects the station tile to cover the entire square? 19:09:53 <andythenorth> kind of 19:10:01 <andythenorth> it's also because the station spec is fricking insane 19:10:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> eg original gfx covered full ground-square, so all newgrfs should also do so and dont have option on having transparency? 19:10:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> so no chance on any fix/changes there 19:10:12 <ZxBiohazardZx> ok 19:10:20 <andythenorth> it's also because rail types can't really handle anything else properly 19:10:29 <andythenorth> it's also because of historical reasons 19:10:37 <ZxBiohazardZx> well the rails are tile/terrain aware 19:10:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> just stations are not 19:10:57 <andythenorth> and it's also because it was thought useful to provide a 'magic sprite' that provided the rails to newgrfs, but the magic sprite is not terrain aware 19:11:11 <andythenorth> it's resolvable, but someone would have to resolve it 19:11:17 * __ln__ is recompiling with debug symbols, d'ogh 19:11:19 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah as with most suggestions 19:11:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> suggestion is good, but implementation is a biatch 19:11:27 <andythenorth> and because the station spec is insane...it's preferred not to pile more on it 19:11:35 *** goodger [~ben@94-30-43-248.xdsl.murphx.net] has quit [] 19:11:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know all about that, im king of coming up with suggestions that require spec rewrites and are close to impossible 19:11:50 <ZxBiohazardZx> but they would be nice :P 19:11:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im8Ajuk4gE8 19:11:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> fuck it 19:12:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> im gonna go download that movie 19:12:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think mila is hot in it 19:12:18 <ZxBiohazardZx> and she being lesbo with zoe saldana is not a bad movie 19:12:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> cant be :P 19:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... thunderstorm... 19:14:46 <ZxBiohazardZx> ? 19:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> wheather... it's what's "outside"... where the pizza comes from... you know? 19:15:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> weather (no h?) 19:15:55 <Eddi|zuHause> watever :p 19:16:05 <ZxBiohazardZx> udrunkbro? 19:16:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you gonna ride around on any spelling mistake of a non-native speaker now? 19:17:26 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: with monday and such? ;) 19:18:37 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi yes specially since i have seen you typing without that many of them 19:18:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im8Ajuk4gE8 < -- go watch 19:24:43 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:25:57 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e70d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:28:09 <__ln__> something called "Open Transport Tycoon" has made it on the raspberrypi.org frontpage. 19:28:36 <andythenorth> make sprite 1012 etc terrain aware? 19:28:47 <andythenorth> or rather, make whatever returns sprite 1012 to stations terrain aware? 19:29:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> andy who your asking/talkin to lol 19:30:22 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 19:31:26 *** telanus2 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has joined #openttd 19:32:36 <ZxBiohazardZx> ugh hate that google maps wont give me 3d for the building i want to see :P 19:32:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> looking @steel mills near IJmuiden Netherlands, Corus plants 19:33:01 <ZxBiohazardZx> to give you an idea what i mean for CHIPS 19:34:09 <ZxBiohazardZx> enclosed sheds with shunters pulling teh ores from the harbor towards teh actual steel mills 19:34:30 <ZxBiohazardZx> and then similar shunters pulling the sheeted steel-rolls to gathering tracks again 19:34:35 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC67E20.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:07 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d142-179-78-231.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:22 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:35:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> andythenorth -> http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&ll=52.495297,4.614859&spn=0.020772,0.055747&sll=52.444711,4.633827&sspn=0.166365,0.445976&t=h&z=15 19:35:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> i know its not ideal to see it topside only 19:35:56 <ZxBiohazardZx> but the stuff you see there is steelmills in the netherlands 19:35:58 <Wolf01> [21:38:47] <ZxBiohazardZx> looking @steel mills near IJmuiden Netherlands, Corus plants <- why did I read Coruscant? 19:36:07 <ZxBiohazardZx> haha Wolf01 cause you can 19:36:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> anything down to the harbor from the "waterweg" is part of the mill & terrains 19:38:02 <ZxBiohazardZx> anyway mainly trying to show andythenorth that CHIPS might be able to offer some nice enclosed tiles (not to many) that fit well with both the aluminium factory from FIRS and cementplant from FIRS 19:38:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67E46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:25 *** telanus1 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:38:36 <andythenorth> sheds 19:39:27 *** telanus2 [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:39:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> yeah mainly its sheds 19:39:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> although in there the actual steel mills (hot, cold, etc etc) are inside the sheds :P 19:39:57 <ZxBiohazardZx> so matching with the FIRS factories would be nice 19:40:11 <ZxBiohazardZx> so forest tiles & modern-FIRS-industrial tiles :P 19:40:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> 2 suggestions :P 19:40:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-081-148.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:40:54 <ZxBiohazardZx> imma go watch tv, brb if at all tonight :P 19:40:57 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day] 19:42:02 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 19:42:07 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 19:48:05 <TrueBrain> and __ln__, how is it going? :) 19:48:57 <__ln__> i figured i had compiled without debug symbols, and recompiling is soon finished 19:49:07 <TrueBrain> hehe 19:49:34 <TrueBrain> ssdg: and yeah, somewhat 'good' news is that __ln__ can reproduce it locally too, so an ARM issue; now the question would be: what? :P 19:50:02 <TrueBrain> ugh, I do dislike people calling this game Open Transport Tycoon. It is called OpenTTD ffs! 19:50:44 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:01 <__ln__> indeed, and the big reason is that "Transport Tycoon" is (or at least was) a registered trademark with a known owner. 19:52:04 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Indeed, I had to hold back myself from posting a silly comment on the 3.14 website about the naming. 19:54:31 <TrueBrain> __ln__: and we are called OpenTTD :P 19:54:37 *** Doorslammer [7da861ac@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:38 <__ln__> TrueBrain: that's right, but the title screen used to say "Open Transport Tycoon" in the early days. 19:55:50 <TrueBrain> long long long long long ago :) 19:55:53 <Zuu> There is also one comment that imply that OpenTTD trunk is unstable. Something I don't think is very true. Sure a few times a year it might have a fatal problem, but its not really that fragile as they make it sound. 19:55:55 <TrueBrain> then again, the title screen used to be sea :P 19:56:11 <TrueBrain> Zuu: indeed, "unstable" is a big word 19:57:05 <Rubidium> "debian unstable" unstable ;) 19:57:23 <Zuu> :-) 19:59:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-99-2.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:05 <Eddi|zuHause> was somewhere between r22434 and now a fix for bounding box drawing? my old revision hangs when i press ^B, in newer ones it doesn't... 20:10:16 * Rubidium wonders what Greyhound is up to 20:10:25 * NGC3982 is in love with his current sky. 20:10:29 <Rubidium> cause their pricing makes no sense 20:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 260/32 20:10:32 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 8.125 20:10:35 <NGC3982> venus, aldebaran and a lot of colors. 20:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 264/18 20:10:48 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 14.6666666667 20:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 264/18*8 20:10:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 117.333333333 20:10:59 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 260/32*8 20:10:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 65 20:12:36 <Rubidium> Toronto -> Montreal costs CAD 20 (via Ottawa). Toronto -> Ottawa costs CAD 39 and Ottawa -> Montreal costs CAD 21 20:13:39 <Rubidium> and you'd be in the exact same busses 20:13:47 <Wolf01> that's right, the more you travel, the less you pay :D 20:13:57 <Rubidium> the train costs CAD 78 though :( 20:14:44 <Wolf01> bah, trains cost all the same in the world, and tt doesn't make an exception 20:15:31 <Belugas> trains are more comfy than busses? 20:16:31 <Rubidium> definitely not all trains are 20:17:10 * ssdg is sorry, there is the french presidential debate on TV and it's quite hard to follow 20:17:14 <Belugas> since /me only travles by car... 20:17:20 <Belugas> travels 20:17:30 <Rubidium> also to work? 20:17:39 <Wolf01> if I didn't have to wait 2 hours for check-in, I'll travel by plane from venice to milan, it costs less and take less time than train (which costs about 50⬠and takes 3.5-4 hours), too bad the nearest airport is at 80km from my house :( 20:18:04 <Belugas> commuters bus are a bit different then inter cities ones... 20:18:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AFD7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: some people complain that the airport is closer to their house :p 20:18:26 <Belugas> i mean.. traveling, like "relatively" long distance 20:19:11 <ssdg> Congratulations TrueBrain on reproducing my bug by the way 20:19:19 <Rubidium> Wolf01: don't take checked luggage, then it's only 30-45 minutes if you check in via internet 20:19:57 <Wolf01> but I have 1 hour of travel to reach the airport 20:20:28 * Rubidium knows it is at least 15 minutes from the train station to the (almost) furthest gate at AMS 20:20:41 <Rubidium> for inner Schengen travel 20:21:06 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:22:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f59ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:45 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:48 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-66-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:31:06 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 20:31:53 *** Ryton [~Ryton@94-226-98-24.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:32:43 <ssdg> TrueBrain: We reproduced it here too. with the debug settings. Interested? 20:32:58 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:33:05 <TrueBrain> __ln__: and, how is it going on your end? 20:33:20 <TrueBrain> ssdg: well, it turns out to be an ARM issue, seemly with Money (a special 64bit integer) 20:33:27 <TrueBrain> so a desync log etc are not super useful 20:33:35 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 20:33:40 <TrueBrain> ssdg: did you try the debian package? 20:34:26 <ssdg> Not Yet. (or it was during my commute and I didn't know about it). (Yes, I take real non-virtual trains too :) ) 20:35:36 * ssdg is quite confuse. how Money causes a bug in tracs? 20:36:03 <TrueBrain> we dont know yet :D 20:36:07 <ssdg> Or did you call money what might just be a bigbigint ? 20:36:09 <TrueBrain> it might be something completely different 20:36:12 <Rubidium> imagine the amount you have to pay on your computer is 1$ and 100.000.000.000$ on the server 20:36:16 <TrueBrain> might be a gcc that fucks up .. who knows :) 20:36:32 <TrueBrain> Money is a type we defined which is practical a 64bit integer 20:36:38 <TrueBrain> it has some .. additional code attached to it 20:36:48 <TrueBrain> INT64_MAX + 1 = INT64_MAX 20:36:52 <Rubidium> then on the server you don't have enough money to remove it, whereas on the client you have; thus it's being removed for you but not on the server 20:37:09 <__ln__> TrueBrain: there would seem to be some crazy value in Money's m_value right after it's been initialized to zero, or something. but i don't know why yet. 20:37:09 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:27 <TrueBrain> __ln__: destroying airports, town houses etc, does work? 20:37:35 <TrueBrain> its only railways that give this issue? 20:37:53 <Rubidium> try roads as well, as you get money from they too 20:37:54 <ssdg> That we know of 20:38:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: smart 20:38:12 <ssdg> In fact, I have to translate a bit of "how-to" give me one sec 20:38:16 <TrueBrain> building and removing "land owner" signs? 20:38:54 <__ln__> it would seem that destroying anything that costs money to destroy does work at least 20:39:27 <__ln__> selling an engine works too 20:40:23 <ssdg> 1) Choose a tile going down, say top on S-E, bottom on NW 20:40:23 <ssdg> 2) build a track on it, said track going from the hill to the valley. 20:40:23 <ssdg> 3) put a signal on it. 20:40:23 <ssdg> 4) Remove said track and builld a perpendicular one (creating a cliff) 20:40:23 <ssdg> 5) add a signal on it 20:42:15 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.252] has joined #openttd 20:42:24 <__ln__> seems like i'm doing a full rebuild again 20:42:53 <ZxBiohazardZx> https://github.com/TrinityCore/TrinityCore/issues/6370 20:42:55 <ZxBiohazardZx> eehm wrong one 20:43:15 <TrueBrain> __ln__: ieuw :( 20:43:20 <TrueBrain> __ln__: in the meantime, do you have gcc version for us 20:43:28 <TrueBrain> can you tell if the BE/LE detection went okay? 20:49:11 <ssdg> If you need or savegame you can find it here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4193779/openttd_arm_desync.tgz 20:49:30 * ssdg is open to critics if some info is missing 20:51:11 <__ln__> TrueBrain: g++ (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 20:51:30 <TrueBrain> tnx ssdg 20:51:31 <TrueBrain> tnx __ln__ 20:52:03 * NGC3982 is so gonna make that soylent green scenario grf. 20:52:14 <__ln__> endian_check reports TTD_LITTLE_ENDIAN 20:52:31 <TrueBrain> __ln__: perfect 20:52:38 <TrueBrain> so that leaves a compiler issue I guess ... 20:53:45 <__ln__> it's a possibility 20:55:14 <Rubidium> given 4.4.5 is broken, it must be broken for a long time 20:55:54 <Rubidium> which would mean lots of broken versions might be floating around 20:56:53 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: sadly, you talk in crypt to me, and I have no clue if you are sarcastic (which you tend to be if you disgree on a statement, no offense, just trying to figure out what you try to say): do you mean that GCC 4.4.5 is known to be broken, or are you trolling? 20:57:58 <Rubidium> earlier someone talked about GCC 4.6.3 being used to create a broken OpenTTD, now GCC 4.4.5. That means the issue (if in GCC) is already pretty old 20:58:12 <TrueBrain> just realise we talk about an ARM-branch of GCC here 20:58:17 <TrueBrain> it doesnt have to be in the mainstream GCC 20:58:28 <TrueBrain> it can be just some optimization for the ARM platform that is not doing what we want from it 21:00:24 <Rubidium> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=48090 smells like this bug 21:00:31 <Zuu> Wolf01: You make a good point why not use "km" as length unit for traveling. Going 8 "mil" sounds much shorter than 80 km, while still being the same distance :-) 21:00:59 <Zuu> s/traveling/commuting/ 21:01:59 <TrueBrain> so a test-case for __ln__ would be: CFLAGS="-fno-cse-follow-jumps" ./configure && make ;) 21:02:11 <Wolf01> Zuu: never heard of that 21:03:00 <Zuu> Wolf01: Its a Swedish thingy to confuse people comming here and thinking that a "mil" is 1.6 km, while it is actually 10. :-) 21:03:18 <ssdg> Zuu: Not quite sure about this 21:03:35 <ZxBiohazardZx> miles are 1.6 kms 21:03:51 <Yexo> Zuu: google "8 mil to km", it says "8 mil = 2.03200 à 10-7 kilometers" 21:03:54 <__ln__> TrueBrain: i'll try 21:03:59 <Rubidium> GCC 4.4.5 does not have that particular fix 21:04:11 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:23 <ZxBiohazardZx> thats cause it calculates mil as million haha 21:04:42 <ZxBiohazardZx> 60 miles/hour = 97 km/hour 21:04:43 <Yexo> seems to be this mil: http://www.aqua-calc.com/what-is/length/mil 21:04:52 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:04:52 <Yexo> Mil, also known as a thou is equal to one thousandth of an inch (0.001 inch). 21:04:59 <Wolf01> still better than furlongs 21:05:06 <ZxBiohazardZx> ah a milimeter 21:05:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> well no 21:05:17 <ZxBiohazardZx> a strange factor of it 21:05:21 <Yexo> no, a mili-inch 21:05:23 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-6-224.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:27 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD 21:05:41 <andythenorth> good night 21:05:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:06:27 <Zuu> English wikipedia: In Norway and Sweden, a mil is a unit of length equal to 10 kilometres and commonly used in everyday language. However in more formal situations, such as on road signs and when there is risk of confusion with English miles, kilometres are used instead. 21:07:09 <Rubidium> "[...] Scandinavian mil ranges from 7.5km to 12km depending on nation or region" ;) 21:07:38 * SpComb has never heard of it 21:07:41 <Zuu> According to wikipedia that was standardized in 1649. 21:08:02 <Yexo> When the Metric system was introduced in Norway and Sweden in 1889 (the actual law having been passed in 1875), the mil was redefined to be exactly 10 km. <- it says 1889 actually 21:08:02 <Zuu> to 10.687 km, and then in 1889 to exactly 10 kilometers. 21:08:10 <TrueBrain> fully automated Blender to NML: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1385/ :D:D:D:D 21:08:41 <ZxBiohazardZx> ugh i hate the new blender versions :( 21:08:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> not joking, i loved the old interface 21:08:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> but they fucked up alot of the stuff i liked about it 21:09:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> python or? 21:09:20 <Yexo> TrueBrain: now import nml and call run nmlc directly from blender too :p 21:09:32 <TrueBrain> I can now make a nice Lego model in LeoCAD, export it to 3DS, put it in a blender file, hit Run Script, and enjoy it ingame :D 21:09:37 <TrueBrain> Yexo: good idea! 21:09:48 <Zuu> TrueBrain: You make it sound easy :-) 21:10:00 <TrueBrain> Zuu: after a days work, it is 21:10:21 <Zuu> :-) 21:10:24 <ZxBiohazardZx> TrueBrain why not create similar script for LegoCAD? 21:10:26 <ZxBiohazardZx> XD 21:10:39 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-154-230-134.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 12.0/20120417165043]] 21:10:44 <Rubidium> ZxBiohazardZx: that'd be cheating ;) 21:10:49 <TrueBrain> because you can't 21:11:22 <TrueBrain> Yexo: works :D 21:11:26 <Yexo> lol :) 21:11:44 <Yexo> it won't work a second time unless it's completely unloaded/reloaded though 21:11:50 <TrueBrain> why? 21:11:52 <Yexo> too many global variables 21:12:09 <TrueBrain> who/what/where? 21:12:16 <Yexo> in nml code 21:12:29 <TrueBrain> it runs nmlc.exe --grf blabla 21:12:33 <Yexo> ah :) 21:12:35 <TrueBrain> so that would work as many times as needed ;) 21:12:38 <Yexo> yep 21:12:51 <TrueBrain> just atm blender fails to do a second render 21:12:52 <TrueBrain> which is weird 21:13:16 <Yexo> since nml is written in python, my initial though was about "import nml; nml.main('', '--grf', 'filename'...);" 21:13:20 <TrueBrain> ah 21:13:24 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:25 <TrueBrain> no, that is too scary for me :D 21:13:28 <ZxBiohazardZx> blender and nml are both python? 21:13:33 <Zuu> As a fan of toyland I look forward to whatever comes out of the lego project. :-) 21:13:38 <ZxBiohazardZx> then yeah it should be directly linkable 21:13:44 <TrueBrain> Zuu: it already looks better, so it cant go worse :P 21:13:58 <ZxBiohazardZx> i think the latest blender actually offered more shit to be compatible for games and creating them (eg sprite creation etc) 21:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> since nml is written in python, my initial though was about "import nml; nml.main('', '--grf', 'filename'...);" <-- i did that once 21:14:56 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly to avoid the nml exception handling though 21:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> to attach a proper post-mortem debugger 21:15:28 <TrueBrain> the only "requirement" for my method, is that you put objects you want rendered in a group, where the name is: <whatever>,spriteid,spriteid,spriteid,spriteid 21:15:38 <TrueBrain> where the amount of spriteids give the amount of rotations :P 21:16:13 <TrueBrain> only y_offs is a bitch 21:16:17 <TrueBrain> as it is not the center of the image 21:16:33 <TrueBrain> (where x_offs is), for terrain at least 21:17:00 <Yexo> good night all 21:18:36 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Where is the lego/brickland thread? Or is it just locally at your computer? :-) 21:18:58 *** tegro_ [~undefined@78-105-226-68.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:17 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: x_offs/y_offs define the north corner of the tile 21:19:49 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Oh, sorry, I just realized there is a search function at the forum :-) 21:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: or the north (hidden) corner of the bounding box for vehicles 21:22:06 <__ln__> what does --enable-debug=3 do compared to --enable-debug? 21:22:38 <TrueBrain> Zuu: locally 21:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: afair it's the same thing 21:23:03 <Zuu> well, take your time and have fun with the awsomeness :-) 21:23:04 <TrueBrain> there are several levels of debugging, in most parts of the code 21:23:05 <Eddi|zuHause> --enable-debug defaults to 3 21:23:19 <TrueBrain> Zuu: yeah; if I have the landscape how I like it I will slap it in a thread 21:23:30 <TrueBrain> I am sure some 32bpp gurus will flame me, as I made my own blender and everything 21:23:46 <TrueBrain> the sun is how I think it should be etc 21:23:56 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: can't be 21:24:08 <TrueBrain> the default blender has a glitch in camera position, giving slightly below optimal images back, etc :P 21:24:25 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: then it was either changed or mis-communicated 21:25:07 <Zuu> The best I ever made in blender before giving up on it was an office tape stand. :-) 21:25:18 <TrueBrain> I never made anything in blender :P 21:25:25 <TrueBrain> I make it in LeoCAD, and import it :D 21:25:30 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: enable-debug defaults to 1 21:25:39 <__ln__> with --enable-debug=3 it takes several minutes to link the openttd binary, and the ARM bug is not present. 21:25:56 <Rubidium> 1 = -g 21:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: usually the higher debug levels make linking _Faster_ 21:26:07 <TrueBrain> owh, lolz, that --enable-debug :D 21:26:14 <TrueBrain> I was tihnking -debug when launching .. oops :D 21:26:22 <TrueBrain> __ln__: =3 is without any optimizations 21:26:24 <Rubidium> 2 = -g -O0 21:26:34 <Rubidium> uhm.. 2 = -g -fno-inline 21:26:41 <Rubidium> 3 = -g -O0 -fno-inline 21:26:49 <TrueBrain> __ln__: so that confirms compiler issue 21:27:08 <TrueBrain> or, well, it can still be a few other things, but it is very likely :D 21:27:18 <ssdg> Seems to work with the .deb 21:27:56 <TrueBrain> ssdg: well, that at least means you can play the game for now :) 21:28:07 <ssdg> That's an awesome news 21:28:28 <ssdg> I hope our package will help you find why it didn't work at first 21:28:50 <TrueBrain> well, we are closing down on it, so that is great news :) 21:28:54 <TrueBrain> tnx for all the info etc :) 21:29:42 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: does 4.4.6 contain the fix for that bug report you linked? 21:29:52 *** ZxBiohazardZx [~IceChat77@5ED05D6D.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ssdg: so, who is winning the debate? :) 21:30:30 <ssdg> Depends of who's looking. That debate almost never changes the trends 21:30:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: euh 21:30:41 <TrueBrain> 4.6.3 21:30:42 <TrueBrain> sry 21:31:08 <ssdg> It did just once... since the beginging of the 5th republic. (it's roughtly 50 years old) 21:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> ssdg: has any president ever won in the first round? 21:31:48 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.74.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:48 <glx> no 21:31:57 <ssdg> I guess Charkes the gaule. 21:31:58 <ssdg> Charles 21:32:15 <Eddi|zuHause> he must get 50% of the votes for that? 21:33:25 <ssdg> Yes 21:33:39 <ssdg> and actually, I was wrong. Nobody won in the first round 21:35:02 <ssdg> First round: select two persons out of everybody who got 50 mayors/other people with similar jobs. Second round whoever has more than 50% wins 21:35:08 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I'm getting an internal server error when I want to get the changelog of 4.6.3, so I have no clue :( 21:35:14 <ssdg> First round: select two persons out of everybody who got 50 mayors/other people with similar jobs signatures. Second round whoever has more than 50% wins 21:35:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lolz 21:36:01 <Rubidium> ssdg: and what if it's 48% 49% and 3% blank? 21:36:03 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:37 <ssdg> Blank is not taken into account. (and it's wrong) 21:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i was under the impression in the second round a simple majority suffices 21:37:03 <glx> ssdg: 500 not 50 :) 21:37:16 <ssdg> glx: indeed 21:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or are really only 2 people allowed in the second round? 21:37:21 <Rubidium> though I wonder what happens when there isn't a majority (equal votes) 21:37:34 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: could be 3, but usually it's only 2 21:37:39 <ssdg> Rubidium: Seems statisticaly improbable to me 21:37:49 <ssdg> glx: are you from here? 21:39:12 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:39:50 <glx> blanks are ignored 21:39:54 <Rubidium> ssdg: less probable than having the one with the fewest actual votes being declared the winner, but that happened as well. Which, for me, would imply needing some margin by which you should win to prevent a few miscounts from selecting the wrong, which would make it more likely that the votes are "equal" 21:41:33 <ssdg> Rubidium: Indeed, errors are possible. 21:42:11 <__ln__> the case of a broken GCC in something as popular as Debian stable leaves open the question: what else is broken, both in OTTD and the whole Debian on ARM... 21:43:19 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> makes you wonder where miscounts have larger effect: in a majority vote, or in a proportional vote 21:44:44 <TrueBrain> __ln__: did you try compiling with that special CFLAG? 21:45:17 <TrueBrain> __ln__: and if you read the bug report Rubidium posted earlier, it is a pretty severe issue 21:45:40 <TrueBrain> Debian on ARM is stabalizing, but is far from stable (same for GCC :)) 21:46:06 <__ln__> TrueBrain: i'm in the process of trying that, but the compilation is only at the letter 'n' at the moment 21:46:11 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the former, though in the latter you'll notice it more often 21:46:38 <TrueBrain> __ln__: lolz 21:47:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: in proportional vote, the effect of a miscount is almost always visible, while in a majority vote, the effect is only visible if it is a close outcome 21:48:04 <__ln__> any serious development work on ARM would require a distcc cluster of sheevaplugs i suppose 21:48:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but if it is visible in the majority vote case, then it has the bigger impact on the overall picture 21:48:33 <Rubidium> yes, but *if* you have an effect in the majority vote it's 100% from the actual truth 21:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can't have proportional vote in a presidal election, where only one seat is to be distributed :p 21:51:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets really silly in hybrid systems like the german parliamentary elections. like the 2009 elections of the Schleswig-Holstein parliament, where the parties with the lower "popular vote" got more seats. 21:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> the vote was later declared illegal, now they re-vote 21:51:47 <Rubidium> I'd say the American system is the silliest 21:52:29 <Rubidium> (of the ones I know) 21:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the british used to have a silly system 21:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> where the electorate constituencies were defined by area instead of population 21:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so there was one constituency with a single voter 21:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> (allegedly) 21:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and the prussians used to have a silly system 21:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> where 1 noble counted the same as 100 citizens, or 10000 peasants 21:54:22 <Rubidium> in the US you can, in theory, win the presidential elections with only few percent of the votes being cast for you 21:54:44 <__ln__> ah well, it's still compiling and i'm falling asleep, so i guess i'll report the results of the CFLAGS in the morning. 21:55:10 <GT> Hi guys, being forced to newgrf coding by recent development in the 32bpp world I wondered: is one free to use a grfid, or is there some kind of registration needed? 21:55:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: in the European parliament elections, one maltesan or luxembourgian vote counts much more than a french or german vote 21:56:35 <Eddi|zuHause> because the number of seats for each country is not decided linearly based on population 21:57:01 <TinoDidriksen> And us smaller countries are happy with that. 21:57:22 <Rubidium> in the US you could be president with 12 votes 21:57:26 <michi_cc> GT: There is no global registry, but bananas will refuse duplicate IDs. 21:57:28 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 21:57:30 <Eddi|zuHause> so if we ever got a directly elected european president, or even a democratically elected EU government, then similar oddities may apply 21:57:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:57:57 <GT> Is there a list to prevent that? 21:58:08 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's because they have to have at least one seat? 21:58:19 <TinoDidriksen> The US EC don't have to follow the popular vote; they're free to just vote however they like. Hasn't been many cases of them doing so, though. 21:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no 22:00:01 <Rubidium> GT: there is http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/newgrf.html but that's definitely not complete, but possibly the most complete list (also check grfcrawler for the grfid you'd like to use) 22:00:26 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 22:00:36 <GT> OK, thxs 22:00:41 <michi_cc> There are 2^32 possible IDs, so just pick something, it will likely be free :) 22:00:49 *** TGYoshi_ [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 22:01:33 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.151.112] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: Germany: 96 Seats (one seat per 859.000 inhabitants). Malta: 6 Seats (one seat per 67.000 inhabitants) 22:01:45 <GT> @michi: well, something starting with 32.. might get popular. 22:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> GT: the usually promoted way is to set the first two characters as your initials. that is reasonably unique 22:02:49 <GT> Ok, Eddi, didn't know that. 22:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is no universal rule 22:03:52 <GT> for 32bpp-extra I used something like 32E. , I may try to continue that for other grfs 22:04:15 <TinoDidriksen> Use a 32bit rand() result. 22:05:17 <GT> @Michi, BTW, do you agree with my last response on the litght setup issue, that the sun is effectively after 3 o'clock? 22:05:32 <GT> s/litght/light/ 22:07:17 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:07:19 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:42 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 22:08:28 <GT> Hi, TB. Great job on NoGo. 22:08:54 <TrueBrain> lol; I did that months ago! :P 22:08:55 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 22:09:06 <GT> Not implemented anything yet, but ideas are spinning in my head. 22:09:31 <GT> So what, even months ago, it stays a great job 22:09:36 <TrueBrain> and: BRCK is mine, GRFID wise 22:09:42 <TrueBrain> I dont care what the rest does, but thatone is mine :P 22:09:59 <GT> Huh, et tu Brute, using newgrf? 22:10:03 <TrueBrain> had to 22:10:05 <TrueBrain> 32bpp and all :P 22:10:10 <GT> Ditto 22:10:27 <TrueBrain> one of the prices to pay for 1 unified system :) 22:11:06 <TrueBrain> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1385/ <- that is another price .. fucking Blender :( I respect every single person who can make more than a square block in Blender :P 22:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> this is also funny: "The council of europe (not to confuse with the European council, nor with the EU council)" 22:12:25 <TrueBrain> (and the square block exception is there, as you get that for free when launching Blender :P) 22:12:28 <GT> This is not square: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=682666#p682666 22:12:55 <TrueBrain> I dont understand how Blender works, it is like this magic machine or what-ever :P 22:13:02 <TrueBrain> but, its lighting system is fucking amasing 22:17:21 <TrueBrain> well, enough fiddling for one day; good night all 22:17:26 <TrueBrain> __ln__: please do let me know the results of your tests :) 22:17:31 <TrueBrain> and tnx for the effort etc :) 22:19:33 <GT> Good night 22:19:52 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:01 <GT> Anyway, I kind of get fed up with all the discussions on 32bpp ground tiles, what would be the best way to finally get some newgrfs? 22:24:50 *** TGYoshi_ [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:26:47 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-126-22.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:18 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:30:36 *** jnx [~jnxa@seven.medozas.de] has joined #openttd 22:31:05 <jnx> Is the cargo distance the distance between stations, or between the industries adjoining the stations? 22:32:32 <GT> I made a python script to convert old tars to nml, I could just start converting, and publish. 22:32:51 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d08e70d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 22:33:38 <GT> Not usable for sprites with masks yet, but there are hundreds of sprites available without. 22:34:19 <Zuu> jnx: the distance between the station signs 22:34:23 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-66-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:34 <Zuu> also, it's the manhattan distance 22:35:06 <GT> i.e. the tiles in x + the tiles in y 22:35:57 <GT> Zuu, what about writing junctioneer in HTML5? 22:36:32 <GT> using a canvas could be pretty platform independent 22:36:38 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:38:43 <Zuu> Apart from speed issues in simulation mode, I would not like to spend another half year with more porting after having made a port from SDL to wxWidgets. :-) 22:40:00 <Zuu> The wxWidgets version actually was easier that expected to get to run in Linux. The OpenGL initialization had to be done a bit different but thats pretty much it. 22:40:36 <GT> Can imagine that. I did download the pre-compiled version. Pretty nice, but I did miss road crossings on different levels. 22:40:44 <GT> Using Linux 22:41:09 <Zuu> You can do that. Edit the save XML file in a text editor and change the Z values to create level crossings. 22:41:30 <Zuu> Make sure that roads that should go over/under are at least 1,0 apart in z-axis. 22:41:50 <Zuu> There is just no GUI yet to support it :-) 22:41:54 <GT> Really? great. I will try that. 22:42:02 <GT> Real men use the command line 22:42:19 <GT> (or hex/text editors) 22:42:36 <Zuu> .. and HTML5? ;-) 22:43:04 <GT> What about it? You edit it with a text editor 22:43:32 <Zuu> I don't really have anything against it. I have't learned yet what it can do. 22:45:27 <GT> moving square blocks on a canvas would be pretty simple. I just started some experiment, and had some nice graphs pretty soon. (Take into account that I do know a couple of programming languages, for the nono-Windows user it may be a bit harder, but I know you are not one of those) 22:46:43 <GT> http://www.w3schools.com/html5/html5_canvas.asp 22:49:24 <Zuu> Looks nice, although one might be less happy when you got 10k+ lines of javascript. But then you'll probably try to only have the render-engine in javascript and keep the simulation engine in C++. Not impossible to do, but sounds like quite some work :-) 22:53:49 *** Hazzard [~72f65bd0@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:57:33 <Zuu> GT: By editing the xml file you can also go out of the grid with eg x=5.7 and y=20.52 if you wish to do so. :-) In 0.1.5 there was some interesting crashes you could trigger if you edit the file yourself and make mistakes, but 0.2 should be more resistent against that. 22:57:37 <Zuu> Good night 22:58:17 <GT> Right, time for me to sleep too, CU 22:59:18 *** GT [~GT@rt-scb-9f41.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has left #openttd [] 23:05:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:10:53 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@82.147.59.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:50 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:52 *** th_gergo [~thiering@1F2E8CA3.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:03 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 23:29:30 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:31:01 *** Hazzard [~72f65bd0@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:49:21 *** Elu [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []